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Fun Stuff => ENJOY => Topic started by: thehollow on 19 Nov 2007, 19:56

Title: The Golden Compass
Post by: thehollow on 19 Nov 2007, 19:56: Anyone else interested to see how this is gonna turn out? I was a big fan of the His Dark Materials trilogy; I read them for the first time in like middle school and loved em, and I've reread them probably 3 times or so since, and they're just as good each time. I really hope they don't fuck this up, and I think that Pullman's approval of script and the casting means that hopefully it'll be alright. Also, Sam Elliot is exactly how I pictured Lee.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 19 Nov 2007, 20:38: I'm very wary of this movie. I loved the books. A lot. I think the trilogy far surpasses Harry Potter in every way (and I do think the two are comparable). The movie looks a little worrisome, especially the CG bears and such. The book is fairly violent which, if they want to maintain the PG rating they're probably shooting for with this seemingly more kid friendly approach will, sadly, be toned down. If they hope to translate the whole trilogy to film, I fail to see how they'll continue with a PG rating. The later books get very dark, violent and, to make things even saucier, there's sex thrown into the mix. If they do continue (and I fail to see them not), they'll either have to make the films for more mature audiences (an honest translation of print to film would warrant, I think, a borderline PG-13/R rating) or, and this latter option is far more likely, they'll seriously tone down the whole atmosphere and thus compromise the fantastic story Pullman has crafted. This is all speculation, of course, but it worries me nonetheless.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: MusicScribbles on 19 Nov 2007, 20:40: This really needs to kick ass. I have to say that Daniel Craig as Asriel is a great choice. Who cares about James Bond? He made an awesome Heisenberg.

Also, this better be violent.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: MusicScribbles on 19 Nov 2007, 20:56: New faith in the movie has been given.
Curiously, from an MTV associated blog.
http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/11/14/golden-compass-director-chris-weitz-answers-your-questions-part-i/#more-1268 (http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/11/14/golden-compass-director-chris-weitz-answers-your-questions-part-i/#more-1268)
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 19 Nov 2007, 20:58: They've toned down the anti-Christian part a bit, and turned the Magisterium into a sort of universal religious entity. Which I'm cool with. But yeah, I wonder how they're gonna pull of Subtle Knife and Amber Spyglass, cuz if they're trying to tone down Christianity, they're gonna have to write out Metatron and all the angels.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 19 Nov 2007, 21:02: They can't remove Christian elements from the second, and particularly from the third, books without completely changing the story. It just doesn't seem at all possible considering how important these elements become to the story. Either they're going to have to rewrite everything or they'll have to be content with pissing some people off. I really hope they opt for the latter.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thehollow on 19 Nov 2007, 21:35: Quote
I think the trilogy far surpasses Harry Potter in every way (and I do think the two are comparable).
agreed. The Harry Potter books were really poorly written, IMO, and weren't even really all that original, they just borrowed from a ton of different legends and mythologies. The HDM universe is way more unique and well-fleshed out, and the series does a way better job of appealing to younger readers while simultaneously not seeming too dumbed down for adults to enjoy.

The books were really more anti-religion than anti-christianity anyways, it's just that the magisterium resembles the catholic church since it's supposed to be similar to 19th century europe and that's what we would identify with. The next 2 are gonna be really interesting to see how they pull it off.

and I agree, I think Daniel Craig is a good choice for Asriel, as is Nicole Kidman (although isn't she supposed to be a brunette in the book? i can't quite remember) as Mrs. Coulter. I've only ever seen Eva Green in the bond movie, but hopefully she'll do pretty well. The voice-acting for the daemons/bears looks pretty solid too, Ian McKellen as Iorek, freddie highmore as Pan, and Kathy Bates as hester.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Storm Rider on 19 Nov 2007, 21:37: Quote from: TheFuriousWombat on 19 Nov 2007, 21:02
They can't remove Christian elements from the second, and particularly from the third, books without completely changing the story. It just doesn't seem at all possible considering how important these elements become to the story. Either they're going to have to rewrite everything or they'll have to be content with pissing some people off. I really hope they opt for the latter.

I'm betting they opt for the former, unless they're hoping the controversy will sell more tickets. But to be honest, I doubt that. I think Pullman's novels were a little too 'edgy' for the movie-going public, what with all the terrible experiments done in the name of preserving the Christian theocracy and the homosexual angels. I think they they'll probably end up cutting that stuff out, story be damned. But maybe Harry Potter's gradual darkening of tone made people more acclimated to this sort of stuff in stories that are usually associated as being for children.

Still, I'm not tremendously optimistic about this.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: MusicScribbles on 19 Nov 2007, 21:41: Guys, read the Q&A. The director says that he is making The Golden Compass as well as he can from a movie perspective so that he can keep every dark element of the second and third books in the films. He wants to keep the Christianity bit, which is what the Magisterium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium)
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thehollow on 19 Nov 2007, 23:16: Damn, that Q&A is really making it sound good. I'm really pumped about this now, I hope I'm not just setting myself up for disappointment.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KharBevNor on 20 Nov 2007, 04:55: If the Christian right was shitting itself over teenage wizards, I can't wait for their reaction to a film series where the good guys include a couple of gay rebel angels.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: bryanthelion on 20 Nov 2007, 05:20: I was excited about this at first.

and after this thread....

I'm more excited!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: öde on 20 Nov 2007, 06:06: Quote from: MusicScribbles on 19 Nov 2007, 20:56
New faith in the movie has been given.
Curiously, from an MTV associated blog.
http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/11/14/golden-compass-director-chris-weitz-answers-your-questions-part-i/#more-1268 (http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/11/14/golden-compass-director-chris-weitz-answers-your-questions-part-i/#more-1268)

Yaaaaayyy!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: october1983 on 20 Nov 2007, 06:17: Quote from: thehollow on 19 Nov 2007, 21:35
Quote
I think the trilogy far surpasses Harry Potter in every way (and I do think the two are comparable).
agreed. The Harry Potter books...just borrowed from a ton of different legends and mythologies. The HDM universe is way more unique and well-fleshed out

To be fair, I don't think it's far to criticise Harry Potter for assimilating a load of myths and legends to create a story, while in the same paragraph calling HDM more "unique" - Pullman didn't even bother assimilating, he just unashamedly took Milton's Paradise Lost as the overriding and very obvious reference point for the series. However, that's not a criticism, it was a fantastic retelling of the story, and I love those books so much, especially when I reread them having read Paradise Lost - he does such interesting things with Milton's ideas. I will agree 100% on the quality of writing being significantly superior to Harry Potter, though, it's almost laughable to compare them.

And to get back onto the topic proper, I'm excited. Sure, they could seriously screw this up, but they seem to be doing all the right things so far. The casting is spot on, even Lyra looks like she'll be good. Also, the Harry Potter films' main downfall (aside from just not being great) was the reliance on a slew of untalented, badly cast child actors, whereas, especially for the second and third books, there's a lot of focus on the adults, and those roles have been filled by talented, reliable actors. As long as Lyra's good, it should hold up on the acting side.

PS. It's The Northern Lights, damnit!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: TrekkieTechie on 20 Nov 2007, 10:54: Movies-from-books always make me nervous. very few ever actually are as good as the book they're based on, and I can only think of one movie-from-book I've ever seen that was actually better than the book. The rest are terrible, terrible disappointments.

Super-disappointed that they've moved the book's finale to the second movie.

Quote from: october1983 on 20 Nov 2007, 06:17
PS. It's The Roarer, damnit!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 20 Nov 2007, 12:47: I have confidence in this director, I really do. Let's hoep that it's not misplaced.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thehollow on 21 Nov 2007, 00:32: Hmm guess I need to read Paradise Lost then, I didn't realize that Pullman borrowed that heavily from it. I've been meaning to read it for some time now, my brother's an English major and keeps yelling at me to read it. I didn't really mean as much about the overall themes of the story, but more about the actual world and universe in which the story takes place. I mean, everyone's heard of wizards and ogres and dragons and whatnot, but how many other stories have Daemons and Mulefa and Armored Bears and Gallivespians and the like?

And while I'm sort of disappointed in how the movie is dealing with the ending, I'm hoping that it works out nonetheless and the other 2 movies make up for it. the director's rationale seemed relatively solid to me, so we'll see. It worked OK in the LoTR movies, so hopefully it'll be alright in this.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: jimbunny on 21 Nov 2007, 22:17: And, Kate Bush is contributing an original song to the soundtrack.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: MusicScribbles on 21 Nov 2007, 22:44: The rating is out, and it's PG-13. This will not be for small children.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Worldbeing on 22 Nov 2007, 12:01: As the obligatory stick-in-the-mud Brit, I feel it my duty to point out that it's a crap name.
Firstly, it's not the name of the book. Not like that's stopped any movies before, but it's still bad. The name of the book it's based on is Northern Lights.
Secondly, the alethiometer (the 'golden compass' referred to in the title) simply isn't a golden compass. Golden, yes, compass no. A compass is one of two things; a mathematical instrument used for drawing circles, or a device which uses the magnetic field of the Earth to point roughly north.
The alethiometer is a device that expresses answers contained within Dust using a series of needle movements to show meanings.

Northern Lights on the other hand, has considerable relevance, since in Lyra's world it provides a glimpse of another world (the Citagazze world, I think) and is split by Lord Asriel at the book's conclusion.

Yay for pedantism!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Drill King on 22 Nov 2007, 13:55: I haven't read these books probably since third grade. When I heard the movie was coming out I was ecstatic, then I started thinking about 'what if it sucks?'

So I did a little research, long and short I'm putting my faith on it being decent or excellent. So I'm quite excited to say the least.

Also, after hearing it'd be a movie, I reread the books, and realized a ton of things I didn't quite grasp since I read them when I was quite young, hoo boy. To be honest, they're more enjoyable when you're a bit older, they do get a rap for being a children's series of some reason(probably because the protagonist is young), any theories to why this is?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thehollow on 22 Nov 2007, 13:57: The book was published as the Golden Compass in the US and Canada, they didn't just randomly rename the film. It was a reference to a line in Paradise Lost, so even then it wasn't simply because it was gold and compass-shaped. In fact, an early title Pullman used for the trilogy was The Golden Compasses. Everyone's aware of the fact that the alethiometer isn't a compass.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: october1983 on 22 Nov 2007, 16:55: It still somewhat irks me that they didn't rename the film to Northern Lights here, but I guess it makes sense.

And yeah, despite popular misconception, it wasn't called The Golden Compass because they thought US audiences were too dumb to understand "Northern Lights" and because there was a "Golden Compass" in it so that was nice and easy (it's come to my attention that, actually, America isn't populated solely by morons...maybe), but mainly because of a misunderstanding between Pullman and the US publishers regarding his working title for the trilogy.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: MusicScribbles on 22 Nov 2007, 23:06: I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous reason. Anyway, Golden Compass suits it better because it gives the trilogy a theme in titles. Subtle Knife and Amber Spyglass. They all suggest intriguing items. In a way the alethiometer is a golden compass because it looks like a fucking compass. It may not be one, but it sure as hell looks like it could be one, a golden one at that. Northern Lights is an interesting name because it does make more sense as a title. It would have been nice and purposeful! Full of meaning and wonder! Golden Compass still works better as a name in the trilogy though. Norther Lights, otherwise sounds awkward and out of place. The lights are not an object of considerable ability, wielded by one of the characters. Anyway, i guess what I'm saying is, pbbbbbbbbbt.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: monkandmovies13 on 23 Nov 2007, 06:47: KATE BUSH WOOHOO

I've never read the books. But I love Kate Bush.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: october1983 on 23 Nov 2007, 07:22: Yeah, it is a ridiculous reason. And maybe The Golden Compass does make sense in the context of the trilogy, but I'm more inclined to go with Pullman's original title. That said, it's hardly a big deal that it has a different name in the US, I just kind of wish they'd renamed the film back to Northern Lights over here, just because I like it.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Lines on 23 Nov 2007, 09:30: Quote from: october1983 on 22 Nov 2007, 16:55
And yeah, despite popular misconception, it wasn't called The Golden Compass because they thought US audiences were too dumb to understand "Northern Lights" and because there was a "Golden Compass" in it so that was nice and easy (it's come to my attention that, actually, America isn't populated solely by morons...maybe)

Um, thanks? And it's a title. It's not like it's the entire story.

I am excited about this movie. I haven't read the books, but I can't decide if I should wait to read the books until after I see the movie, because I am always less disappointed when I read books after I see movies instead of vice versa.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on 23 Nov 2007, 09:39: I try whenever I can to read the books after seeing the film. Otherwise when I see the films I'm always comparing and remembering things that are done better in the book or were left out etc... But if you see the films first then when you get around to reading the books there are things you haven't seen before and things are explained better and the movie remains good, the book is just better.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 23 Nov 2007, 10:56: i was really excited to see this until i discovered that it had Nicole Kidman in it. i'll still see it but man i hate Nicole Kidman.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: october1983 on 23 Nov 2007, 11:45: Quote from: Linds on 23 Nov 2007, 09:30
Um, thanks? And it's a title. It's not like it's the entire story.

You're welcome. Seriously, though, I didn't mean to come across quite so offensive. I was more poking fun at a number of British people I know (no one here) that like to take the "lol Americans are so dumb they had to change the name of the book because they didn't get it" line.

And, yeah, it's just a title, like I said earlier, I don't have a massive problem with what it's called, I'd just kind of prefer if they retained Northern Lights as a title for the film over here, at least.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KharBevNor on 23 Nov 2007, 23:40: Quote from: october1983 on 22 Nov 2007, 16:55
It still somewhat irks me that they didn't rename the film to Northern Lights here, but I guess it makes sense.

It makes sense as in, not having to make two versions of the (obligatory) animated title sequences and credits, not to mention all the advertising. Using the same title worldwide gives them a synergistic advertising campaign, particularly online, where it's harder to target advertising geographically, and each Northern Lights advert seen by a North American would be wasted, and vice versa. Hell, simply getting a decent domain name for a film called 'The Northern Lights' would have been rather complex and expensive. Using one tital globally probably saves them at least $100,000, I would guess.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: october1983 on 24 Nov 2007, 06:00: I guess it's kind of like driving on the left hand side of the road. I know it doesn't make sense that we do it differently to the rest of the world, but damnit if there isn't a part of me that quite likes the way it is.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: öde on 24 Nov 2007, 06:05: We drive on the left so we can aim properly at highwaymen.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 24 Nov 2007, 08:49: Quote from: MusicScribbles on 21 Nov 2007, 22:44
The rating is out, and it's PG-13. This will not be for small children.

Yes!! Finally my hopes for this have been seriously lifted. They might just do it justice yet. This is very good to hear.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Liz on 24 Nov 2007, 20:04: Here (http://ndsu.facebook.com/group.php?gid=13663055161) is a little something that will probably make quite a few of you either sad or angry.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: supersheep on 24 Nov 2007, 20:29: It made me angry because I could not post some sort of rebuttal. What kind of faith does one have if it cannot stand up to the argument's of a kid's book?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: bryanthelion on 24 Nov 2007, 21:46: Uhh, no one complained when C.S Lewis made a book targeted toward children about HIS religous beliefs.

I just athiests are less pissy
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Liz on 24 Nov 2007, 21:47: I joined in hopes of there being a hidden wall or something that I could laugh at, but upon discovering nothing of the sort I left with haste.

I just can't believe the number of people that have joined it already.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: JimmyJazz on 24 Nov 2007, 22:19: About 31,000 people. Man that's depressing. I hope the conflict doesn't make the news or it'll start a whole big awful debate and could delay the film.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: axerton on 25 Nov 2007, 05:43: Nothing delays Hollywood. I'm betting the producers ect are praying that it does hit the news. Nothing sells like controversy and calls for banning of a movie.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Lines on 25 Nov 2007, 08:11: People don't have problems with religious based films, but they sure do with anything to do with atheism. People need to grow up. I almost want to join and post, "What the hell, people? It's a movie."
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KharBevNor on 25 Nov 2007, 14:15: His Dark Materials trilogy isn't even anti-religion, guys. It's anti-dogmatic/anti-authoritarainism. Pullmans a secularist, not an atheist. There's quite a lot of gnostic and deist ideas in it: the Authority isn't God, he's the demiurge. Hell, even the Archbishop of Canterbury thinks it's a good book. This back-lash is a nice demonstration of the shocking lack of theological sophistication and general narrow-mindedness of many Christians. So, the book doesn't chime with your ideas? I thought you had fucking FAITH. Stop whining.

I guess I can understand why the catholics object though. They thought they'd killed all the gnostics and the arians like, fifteen centuries ago.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: jimbunny on 25 Nov 2007, 19:44: To be fair, the Archbishop of Canterbury isn't the most theologically 'orthodox' guy out there.

That said, I loved the books. I can't say that reading a plot about killing "God" encouraged me to change my beliefs about the world any more than reading The Dark is Rising sequence or The Space Trilogy encouraged me to accept Arthurian legend as fact, wonderful as it is.

If it makes you feel any better, think of all the people on Facebook who won't join that group. And will see the movie because of that group. These numbers are very large as well. We all knew this would provoke a reaction from the religious right, so let's not be surprised.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: dennis on 25 Nov 2007, 21:00: Quote from: october1983 on 22 Nov 2007, 16:55
And yeah, despite popular misconception, it wasn't called The Golden Compass because they thought US audiences were too dumb to understand "Northern Lights"
Though this was the reason that Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was renamed to ...Sorcerer's Stone.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: dennis on 25 Nov 2007, 21:22: Quote from: KharBevNor on 25 Nov 2007, 14:15
His Dark Materials trilogy isn't even anti-religion, guys. It's anti-dogmatic/anti-authoritarainism. Pullmans a secularist, not an atheist. There's quite a lot of gnostic and deist ideas in it: the Authority isn't God, he's the demiurge. Hell, even the Archbishop of Canterbury thinks it's a good book. This back-lash is a nice demonstration of the shocking lack of theological sophistication and general narrow-mindedness of many Christians. So, the book doesn't chime with your ideas? I thought you had fucking FAITH. Stop whining.

I guess I can understand why the catholics object though. They thought they'd killed all the gnostics and the arians like, fifteen centuries ago.
Being anti-dogmatic/authoritarian is being anti-religious. All religions rely on dogma (common beliefs) and the authoritarianism of gods (or their "representatives" on earth). Authoritarianism and dogmatism goes beyond religion, though.

Also, Pullman is an atheist. He's said so. He's also a secularist.

As for the gnostic and deistic ideas, it doesn't matter that the Authority's god isn't God, per se. The point is that there isn't a god, just people who use the idea of God to enslave others.

The Archbishop of Canterbury thinks it's a good book because he likes to think that the Anglican Church isn't evil, like the Authority. Of course, it is. It's just not as good at it as the Catholic Church.

Here's a good article on Pullman and the Trilogy from the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/12/26/051226fa_fact).
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KharBevNor on 26 Nov 2007, 09:51: Quote from: dennis on 25 Nov 2007, 21:22
Being anti-dogmatic/authoritarian is being anti-religious. All religions rely on dogma (common beliefs) and the authoritarianism of gods (or their "representatives" on earth).

EH-UHRRRRR

Go back to theology school plzthx
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Ocarina654 on 29 Nov 2007, 15:31: Kind of a response to the previously posted Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6457837738

I expect everyone to join :-D
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: bryanthelion on 01 Dec 2007, 11:49: :-D just did
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Johnny C on 01 Dec 2007, 15:39: I have tried to read the first book four God damn times and I just can't bring myself to care about anything in it. The farthest I've managed to get was about forty pages in.

So I probably won't be seeing this movie!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Joseph on 01 Dec 2007, 15:56: How old were you when you tried?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KharBevNor on 01 Dec 2007, 17:34: What Johnny is saying is that his attention span is so meagre and gnat-like he can't read more than 40 pages of a goddamn childrens book.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: bryanthelion on 01 Dec 2007, 19:11: I saw it today!

It ended way too soon though, Like it ended right when things were getting good.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Tom on 01 Dec 2007, 19:23: don't forget to tune in for the next episode of....!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Liz on 08 Dec 2007, 08:00: I went and saw it last night. All in all I thought it was really good, but since it's been a few years since I read the book I don't really recall if it followed to story as well as I would hope. It did seem really short, yes, and the ending was the most ridiculous cliff hanger that you could ever imagine.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: öde on 08 Dec 2007, 08:24: The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass The Golden Compass I NEED TO SEE THIS TOMORROW
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 08 Dec 2007, 09:31: I have to wait until I'm done with school (this upcoming friday night, if they even HAVE a 10:00 show, I'll try to get to it).
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Ocarina654 on 08 Dec 2007, 17:59: I enjoyed it.
I haven't finished reading the book, though.

Possible Spoilers:
However, there was a lot in the film that felt like it deserved more screen-time. For example, the whole deal with the witches wasn't explained at all. They just kinda showed up "Oh hai guyz we'll fite 4 u" and then they did. No explanation, no anything.
My friend who HAS read the book, said that he enjoyed it but the cut-off ending was lame, and parts of the story were switched around and whatnot.
Also, Iorek ripping out and eating the King Polar Bear's heart didn't happen. Guess they wanted it to be PG-13!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: bryanthelion on 09 Dec 2007, 16:01: Bleh! check out this Time article
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1692926-1,00.html

This guy is so one sided!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Inlander on 09 Dec 2007, 17:06: It's as if he's being paid to give his opinion!
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Liz on 09 Dec 2007, 17:21: Honestly, who would do something like that?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Lines on 09 Dec 2007, 19:39: I wish I could get paid to give my opinion.

I finally saw the movie today and I liked it. I thought the story itself was pretty good, though a bit choppy at certain transitions, and the effects were really well done. The end is a bit abrupt, but it's part of a trilogy, so I was kind of expecting it.

Also, I have the HDM omnibus, so now I get to read the books and know what the hell else is going on in this series.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 12 Dec 2007, 09:30: I saw the movie the other night with Huda, and I have to say it was really good. The bear fight scene had possibly the best ending of all time, just so you know.

I like where the director ended it, leaves plenty of room for there to be a shit load of action starting off the second one with a bang. trust me.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Narr on 12 Dec 2007, 11:52: You guys LIKED this movie? In my opinion, it was the biggest piece of shit I've seen since Ultraviolet (which was possibly the worst movie of all time.)

I'm not saying this from the whole "OMG I R CHRISTIAN THIS MAN'S WERK IS TEH DEVL!" either because that's why I went to see the movie, to see what the fuss was about. Halfway through the movie, I found myself yawning and almost fell asleep even though I'm a notorious night owl and wasn't likely to fall asleep for another 4 hours after the movie was supposed to be finished. The plot is minimal at best, and nothing is explained. I'm still angry that the main goal of the bad guys isn't explained until literally about 5 minutes before the film ends. What the FUCK is with that? No one got any screen time except the little girl that had an exceptional LACK of personality and her shapechanging cat/ferret/hawk thing. If it wasn't for the fact it was mentioned earlier in the thread, I would have forgot it's name was Pan.

It's literally the first time since Ultraviolet that I was going to go theater hopping so I could feel like I got my money's worth but we went to a late showing that got out at midnight so nothing else was starting when we left. My friends I went with kept saying "You should just go read the books" and I keep telling them that having to read a book to understand a movie based on it just means it's a terrible and poorly made movie.

The Christian fundies that are trying to get the movie boycotted should seriously just let people know how much of a shitty movie it is, rather than make up some grandiose reason it's "bad for the children."
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 12 Dec 2007, 12:02: Do you think you could maybe not diss those that like it? I don't care if you don't like it (I haven't seen it yet, anyways), but if you hadn't written that second sentence, less people would be mad at you.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Narr on 12 Dec 2007, 12:07: Good point. I have a nasty habit of being sarcastic with people in person in a joking manner that doesn't translate well to the internet and I tend to forget myself. Edited.

No offense meant.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 12 Dec 2007, 13:05: If I know I'm going to come across as mean, I just add a [/sarcasm] to the end of the sentence/paragraph. At least for the things that no amount of text editing can fix.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 12 Dec 2007, 15:35: Eh. I don't know, I thought the actors got plenty of screen time, the purpose of Bolvangar isn't supposed ot be revealed until the end, the movie really isn't about Daniel Craig's character by any means. I wasn't confused at any point, though I suppose that was because I read the book, and the movie I thought did the book a good deal of justice. I don't know, maybe I'm just from a biased perspective, I thought it was really cool.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Narr on 12 Dec 2007, 20:03: I'm going to have to go back to my line:

If you have to read an entire series of books in order for a movie based on the first in that series to remotely make sense, the movie is a failure.

Fans will say "The books were better" and the rest of the audience is going to leave thinking "That was a waste of money."
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 14 Dec 2007, 21:51: actually I liked the movie just fine. It was fun, and was a good realization of the story in my opinion. Maybe I just like bad films.

He really does!
/
:-D
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Drill King on 16 Dec 2007, 10:44: It's funny, because I was the only person out of the people I went to see it with who read the books. Personally I loved seeing one of my favorite series being on the big screen. I felt Dakota Blue Richards did a great job of portraying a girl of that age, anyone who says otherwise watch a tomboyish 12 year old for fifteen minutes, the facial expressions were lovely.

However, I spent most of the movie explaining it to the international students(language barrier + not reading the book? Yikes), who all in all also enjoyed it but said if I wasn't there they would have no sweet clue what was going on.

Also, other people who haven't read the book I know, really didn't like it. Oddly enough people who read it loooved it.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Inlander on 16 Dec 2007, 14:59: Quote from: Drill King on 16 Dec 2007, 10:44
Dakota Blue Richards

Seriously, what the hell kind of a name is that??
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Drill King on 17 Dec 2007, 08:46: I think it was so either that she'd end up in Hollywood doing films and being a diva, or porn.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thecurse on 17 Dec 2007, 12:38: My opinions most closely resemble Narr's in regards to The Golden Compass, albeit with fewer capital letters.

SPOILERS

The director, Chris Weitz, does not understand pacing. Weitz also wrote the script, so we can blame him for pretty much everything wrong with this movie.

Weitz does not know what to do with his actors. It truly is a remarkable cast, including Nicole Kidman and James Bond, but instead of letting these actors develop their characters with acting, Wietz introduces them, gives each five minutes of expository dialog, and then puts them in the corner so he can show a ten minute balloon ride.

Add to the almost non-existent character development a curious plot: Why not attack the Gobblers with your newfound bear army? Why could you not find your armor when it was less then a block away?

It is true, what one poster said, he holds back seemingly relevant information, but he replaces it with repetitious explanations of the fantasy world's fixtures. For example, at the beginning of the film, Pan informs Lyra (really the audience, as the girl obviously knows this already) that hurting one of them hurts the other (injure a daemon, you injure the human, and vice versa). Weitz does not stop there, however. He tells us again. Then he shows us. Then he shows us over and over again. Most of this does not forward the plot at all, and it is this kind of digression that weakens the film.

Honestly, the battle at the end: tedious.

The bear fight was awesome, though.

Quote from: Inlander on 16 Dec 2007, 14:59
Quote from: Drill King on 16 Dec 2007, 10:44
Dakota Blue Richards

Seriously, what the hell kind of a name is that??

Her mother thought it was to easy to tell apart blond, eerily mature, child actresses.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Narr on 17 Dec 2007, 13:44: *SPOILER*

I thought the bear fight was pretty cool, up until how it ended. I didn't read the books as I've mentioned so I don't know if that's how it goes down in them, but I thought having his jaw slapped off was contrived and altogether unbelievable.

[/Spoiler]

If you're going to tell me "Well, it's Fantasy. It doesn't have to be believable," I will fight you. Fantasy has fantastical elements, sure, but it still has to be believable because the genre, in general, is an escape from reality for people. If it's not grounded in realistic situations, laws, rules and consequences, it fails to draw in the reader/viewer. People need to be able to feel that if that world in fact was real, they could be a part of it.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Hat on 17 Dec 2007, 14:39: So, should I read the book, and then see the movie and be a little let down by the adaptation, or should I go see this movie on the strength of holy shit, armoured polar bear cavalry and then read all the books afterwards?

It comes out on boxing day and I can probably slam the entire trilogy by the time the summer cinema crowds die down to an acceptable level.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Storm Rider on 17 Dec 2007, 15:30: Narr, in the book the bear fight ended with Iorek tearing out the other bear's heart and eating it. Not exactly something they could get away with in the film.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KharBevNor on 17 Dec 2007, 16:37: He did knock Ioreks FUCKING JAW STRAIGHT OFF. I felt that was a fair compromise for the PG audience.

Still, I was left kinda dissapointed by this film. I mean, lets be honest here, there is one reason, and one reason only, that we are being bombarded with endless fantasy flicks at the moment: The Lord of the Rings. Given this, I am repeatedly astounded that none of the films most closely comparable to it (Eragon, The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe, this) have absorbed any lessons from it whatsoever. Though I would say this was a better outing than either of the other two I've mentioned (lets face it, it would not be hard to be better than Eragon), it still suffers from the problems of being flat, lifeless and plasticky, in my view, for the following reasons:

1: Too much fucking CGI. The main reason the special effects on LOTR are so good is that they used as little CGI as they possibly could. So many things in the Golden Compass could have been models and looked ten times better. Was there even any location shooting AT ALL? I don't want to see a CGI polar bear wearing CGI armour carrying a CGI girl across a CGI snowfield, fuck it. Go find a real fucking snowfield, stick a stuntwoman on a horse in a blue suit, then take your shot. Then you just about have my permission to digitally erase the horse and whack in a polar bear. I'm not an unreasonable man.
2: Inconsistent and shallow art direction. The whole look of the thing was far too cobbled together. The design of the technology, clothes and whatever was all inconsistent. It also went far, far away from the book. What the fuck where those whirring blue things on all the vehicles? The books make it pretty clear that technology in Lyras world is roughly stalled somewhere in 1930, with a few anachronisms (basic atomic power, for example) and obvious fantasy elements. I suspect someone somewhere got a bit carried away with Pullmans slightly changed vocabulary (anabaric power, atomcraft, etc.) Nowhere does it mention spinning blue plasma globe power systems and hologram projectors. Lyra is supposed to be amazed when she visits our world in The Subtle Knife. I would not be fucking amazed at anything in our world if I lived somewhere with shit like that. Also it makes the anachronisms almost unbearable. You're telling me these people can invent plasma powered fucking airships, but they can't figure out how to make an automatic rifle? The design elements are even worse. The clothes worn by the Magisterium officials and the scientists at Bolvangar, for example, bear almost no relationship to those worn by, say, the people at Mrs. Coulters party.
3: Paint by numbers music. Whoever composed the music for this film, I bet he does like, one soundtrack a week, and he's probably very bored by it. Not only was it unremarkable (I can't remember a fucking note), but it also seemed poorly thought out and not at all related to the film, conceptually.

In short, not engaging or deep or well thought out enough by a long shot. Still, entertaining, and the battle at the end was fab. I hope they make the sequels, just because I really, really want to see the battle between the Clouded Mountain and Lord Asriels fortress committed to screen. Although I also kind of don't, because I'm sure it would spoil my Milton meets World War One on acid vision of the whole thing.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thecurse on 17 Dec 2007, 17:21: Quote from: Narr on 17 Dec 2007, 13:44
*SPOILER*

I thought the bear fight was pretty cool, up until how it ended. I didn't read the books as I've mentioned so I don't know if that's how it goes down in them, but I thought having his jaw slapped off was contrived and altogether unbelievable.

[/Spoiler]

If you're going to tell me "Well, it's Fantasy. It doesn't have to be believable," I will fight you. Fantasy has fantastical elements, sure, but it still has to be believable because the genre, in general, is an escape from reality for people. If it's not grounded in realistic situations, laws, rules and consequences, it fails to draw in the reader/viewer. People need to be able to feel that if that world in fact was real, they could be a part of it.

I thought it was believable. Polar bears are pretty badass, after all. Fantasy characters do not have to act believably in relation the real world because they are supposed to be larger than life. It is spectacle, after all. I would say that the only rule a fantasy story has to follow is consistency.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 18 Dec 2007, 07:27: Quote from: KharBevNor on 17 Dec 2007, 16:37
Milton meets World War One on acid vision of the whole thing.

YES.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Johnny C on 18 Dec 2007, 09:21: Quote from: KharBevNor on 01 Dec 2007, 17:34
What Johnny is saying is that his attention span is so meagre and gnat-like he can't read more than 40 pages of a goddamn childrens book.

Dude I've read The Brothers Karamazov and listened to Metal Machine Music, my attention span is fuckin' awesome.

EDIT: On a whim I checked out Amazon's fact sheet on Karamazov:

Quote
Mass Market Paperback: 1072 pages
Product Dimensions: 6.9 x 4.3 x 2 inches
Shipping Weight: 1.1 pounds

If you ever decide to read the book, be aware that it is a pound of novel.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Narr on 18 Dec 2007, 17:26: Completely snapped his jaw off it's hinges, yes.

Batting his jaw a football's field in length OFF THE FACE OF ANOTHER BEAR, not believable. I'd rather have him rip the heart out of the other bear and eat it.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thecurse on 18 Dec 2007, 17:53: I do not remember it being quite so impressive as that.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Johnny C on 18 Dec 2007, 18:27: Do you believe it more or less than magic bears fighting?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Tom on 18 Dec 2007, 22:09: Quote from: Johnny C on 18 Dec 2007, 09:21
If you ever decide to read the book, be aware that it is a pound of novel.

Correction, a pound and a tenth. For those of us no longer stuck in the dark ages, 495 g.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thecurse on 19 Dec 2007, 00:54: The problem with the metric system is that it has no character. It is so completely perfect that humans cannot relate to it.

I cannot think of a punchline to that.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Inlander on 19 Dec 2007, 05:51: I don't want to "relate" to my system of measurement. I'm not looking to ask it out to a dinner and a movie and hope that I'll get lucky with it later in the night. I'm looking to measure things with it in an easy and practical manner.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 19 Dec 2007, 12:58: SPOILER I SUPPOSE HERE AS WELL:

I'm not sure if I really fucking care whether or not the jaw ripping off and flying ten feet away was realistic, it was awesome and visceral and the best end to a fighting sequence that I have ever seen. At the moment it happened I was so engrossed in the movie that I really didn't feel like it was unbelievable. It was more like, me and the rest of the theater, were just sitting there stunned for a minute, and then a chorus of "oh holy shit" sort of scattered throughout.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Lines on 19 Dec 2007, 18:27: Yeah, the people in the theater I was in did the collective "Whoa..." thing.

Besides, it doesn't matter if it's believable. These bears seem to be a whole lot more powerful than the average polar bear and it's a fantasy novel. It was written that way in the book. So, other than not having Iorek eating Iofur's heart, it was pretty damn awesome and close to what the scene was in the book.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: thehollow on 19 Dec 2007, 21:21: Although I haven't seen it yet, I'm slightly disappointed they didn't keep the heart-eating part (although I can completely understand why they cut it). I remember reading the book for the first time when I was like 12 or 13 and that part was one of the first real "whoa! fucking badass!" moments of any book I'd read up till then.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: MusicScribbles on 19 Dec 2007, 21:29: I guess this means that Iorek won't be eating Lee Scoresby.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 01 Jan 2008, 19:08: ~~I finally got to see it, and I almost fell asleep. Will elaborate later.~~
Okay. So I went to see it. In terms of faithfulness to the books, it's not bad. They chopped out a bit, but in the long run it wasn't necessary to the main idea. This, however, is where the movie completely lost itself. It is supposed to be a fight against the Magisterium (or at least that's what everyone in the marketing department wants us to think), and about Lyra. The Magisterium's part in all this is extraordinarily small, and the 'fight against Authority' becomes the 'fight against Ms. Coulter', which is what is supposed to happen, but not to the extent that the Magisterium is all but forgotten. Characters were introduced and not developed (Ma Costa, Farder Coram, Serafina Pekkala, etc. Of all the non-important characters in the movie, the bears were the most complete), plot holes so obvious I almost missed them (when Lyra 'escapes' with Iorek to the ghost shed on the lake and everybody somehow knew what she was up to when she returned). And again with all the minor players, they seemed to be stuffed into archetypes that they couldn't fit (Faa as King Theoden, Farder Coram as...well...an old guy. In the book he was something of a mentor to the tune of Gandalf, but not here. I'm getting the impression the producers wanted Ma Costa to mirror Mrs. Weasley).

The acting wasn't bad. It was actually quite good (except Nicole Kidman. I pictured Ms. Coulter as a much more viciously nice person, whereas this Ms. Coulter is not all that nasty). It was just such an awful screenplay overall that I nearly fell asleep.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: ledhendrix on 02 Jan 2008, 11:38: I thought it was a pretty fucking awful representation of the book. I had just read the series again for the second time before i went to see it and i couldn't believe how much they've butchered it. They mixed up a lot of the characters. Mixed the actual timing of the scenes. Missed out a the whole point in the film (anti religion), it was hardly ever mentioned. They missed out the ending (one of the main points throughout the series), how are they meant to bring it back from that. Hopefully the next one is better.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 02 Jan 2008, 16:02: I will force myself to watch the next two because of the Milton's World War I Acid Trip.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Ryder on 02 Jan 2008, 21:15: It was great. I could've done with more quantum physics and church bashing, but it was good.

Biggest qualm though, Nicole Kidman. God she's terrible. Coulter's supposed to be SMART and evil.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: ledhendrix on 03 Jan 2008, 01:23: My favorite bit was probably the bear fight. There can't be many things more awesome than giant armored bears fighting.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: SevenPinkerton on 03 Jan 2008, 10:24: SPOILERS, probably

I agree with whoever said Dakota Blue Richards did a great job. The Golden Compass has been one of my all time favorite books because of Lyra's awesomeness. It's rare to find a strong and confident girl in a book these days without her being a bitch or secretly weak or something dumb like that... She was great in the movie and almost exactly how I always pictured her.

For the rest of the movie though...I seriously spent half the time wondering how anyone that didn't know the book well could even understand it. You're not supposed to know the plan of the bad guys until the end, the point was for Lyra to slowly unfold the mystery. The movie did an awful job of this and spent half the time bluntly explaining some things while ignoring others. I mean the whole "General Oblation Board...G.O.B.....for Gobblers!" Sort of reminded me of Batman and Robin-esque ridiculousness. ("It was in the Sea, C, for Catwoman!")

My biggest problem with the movie was the very beginning. A narrator goes and explains how everyone knows about dust and what dust is only to lead into a movie in which no one knows or talks about dust. It baffled me even though I knew the book.

Overall, it was fun to watch and to see my favorite characters in a movie, and it was more than I was expecting ever since I heard Pullman wasn't going to have a part in its creation.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Naksu on 15 Nov 2008, 09:42: Well yeah, the movie was ok. The problem is that the books are brilliant! The magical feeling of the books were gone, and the movie felt like an all-round mass adventure story wirh some stock special effects. They should have just forgotten the child audience, HMS aren't childrens books to begin with. And what was that semi-futuristic world? If I remember right, they were living in some victorian-like era with nuclear power.

And one more thing. Every single time Serafinas last name Pekkala was pronounced, the whole audience bursted into laugh.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 15 Nov 2008, 09:56: IN ADDITION TO NAKSU BEING A NECROPHILE...HE ALSO LIKES TO DIDDLE HOUSEHOLD PETS...THIS MESSAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY CONCERNED PETOWNERS IN FINLAND...
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: KickThatBathProf on 15 Nov 2008, 19:45: Good show Dimmukane.
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Naksu on 16 Nov 2008, 09:00: Ok, some typing mistakes. What else did I do to deserve this?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Dimmukane on 16 Nov 2008, 09:12: You brought back two threads from over 6 months ago back to life. On this forum, that will get you bitched at. Happened to me when I first got here, too. They told me I made a baby-flail, I think.

When you're posting, look carefully at the date of the last post. If it's more than a month ago (heck, sometimes 2 weeks is considered long enough), and you don't have anything to contribute other than an opinion, you should probably not post in it. Resurrecting dead threads is okay if there's a new development to the discussion, but if it's just to say what you think in the span of a few sentences, don't do it.

We're not attacking you personally, I just have fun calling people out for it. But next time, be a little more careful, m'kay?
Title: Re: The Golden Compass
Post by: Naksu on 16 Nov 2008, 09:21: Roger that. Nice show, by the way.