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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Typhlosis on 29 Nov 2007, 18:00
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A field I think more often than not gets shuffled to the side in musical discussion is the lyrical quality of songs or albums. While in music debates with personal friends much credit goes to 'sick-rifts' and the like, I give praise to a bands ability to express themselves through words. While much is to be said about the ability for music to match the words spoken, Ive always valued lyrics highest when acessing how I feel about a band.
So, much respected QC music forum, who do you believe has some of the best lyrical abilities when crafting music?
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Godspeed You! Black Emperor
:-D
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Colin Meloy is my favorite songwriter, but some of the others who are the kind of good that they simeltaneously make you want to write songs and think "i'll never be that good, why bother" are John Darnielle, Ben Gibbard, Morrissey, Will Sheff, Jeff Mangum, Robyn Hitchcock, John Roderick, Pete Doherty (yes, I said it, I think he's a great songwriter. Hate me all you want), Elliott Smith, and Stuart Murdoch. Many many more as I have many many favorite bands.
Interesting music is most important for getting into a song at first, but if it doesn't have good lyrics, I will get bored of it very quickly. A good lyricist makes a lifetime relationship with a band.
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Dave Tibet, Martin Walkyier, Nick Cave, Bob Dylan, Douglas Pearce, Tony Wakeford, Morrissey, Ian Curtis, Jeff Mangum, Rob Halford.
In that order.
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Phil Ochs.
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Word on the street is Leonard Cohen is pretty alright at writing stuff.
To be honest, quality lyrics aren't something I generally require in a song, however. I've heard some bad lyrics in some beautifully awesome songs, and it didn't really bother me.
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Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Johnny Cash, Anton Newcombe, Ian Curtis, Stuart Murdoch, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Lou Reed, Joe Strummer, Nick Cave, Roger Waters, Pete Townshend, Robert Johnson, Sam Beam, Chuck D, Micheal Stipe, Jim Morrison, Elvis Costello, David Byrne,Leonard Cohen, Thom Yorke, Morrissey, David Bowie, Jeff Tweedy, Van Morrison.
Those are my favorites, and all of them belong in the top tier of songwriters, in my opinion.
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:-D
i am already so god damn sick of t-rex's smartass attitude
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Why is TMBG not on this list?
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Look deep within your post and you will find the answer that you seek.
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Nick Cave is my favourite lyricist of all time. He can be dark, sexy, murderous, hilarious, and gloriously dumb, usually in the space of one stanza.
He also writes lines that I don't think anybody else in the world would ever write, like some of the ones in 'Nature Boy.'
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DISMEMBERMENT PLAN ctrl+c ctrl+vvvvvvvvvvvvv
I'll also mention Alan Jackson's later work. For the longest time he just did a bunch of boring, hokey shit. Then he started to bud as a songwriter. Recommended work: "Remember When". It's about his life with his wife, who was his high school sweetheart.
It has *two* key changes.
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The aforementioned John Darnielle and Will Scheff are terrific and the as-of-yet unmentioned man behind The Microphones and Mount Eerie, Phil Elvrum (or Elverum as it now is) is rather excellent. Colin Melloy writes great stories-as-lyrics, Joanna Newsom writes wonderful poetry-as-lyrics and, to me, the undisputed king of lyrics, Jeff Mangum, writes holy-fucking-hell-that's-way-too-brilliant-poetry/oddity as lyrics.
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The Decemberists, by far. Colin Melloy has amazing talent for story telling, and an incredible vocabulary to boot. And I'm saying this as an English major in college.
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Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, John Lennon, Thom Yorke, Morrissey, those guys are all pretty good.
Also, Paul Westerberg of the Replacements in their later records was getting pretty skilled.
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The Decemberists, by far. Colin Melloy has amazing talent for story telling, and an incredible vocabulary to boot. And I'm saying this as an English major in college.
Some people think his "incredible vocabulary" is a bad thing because it makes the music too "literate" or "pretentious."
PSSSSHHH
I will never understand that, ever.
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Verbosity can be really annoying to some people and artists like Spencer Krug and Dan Bejar can be lyrically inaccessible to some casual listeners.
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Know what strikes me as odd? A lot of my friends are like, "Yeah Freddie Mercury wrote some EXCELLENT lyrics, man." But I've noticed that a lot of the lines he put into his songs never really actually made sense. Maybe one verse made sense by itself, and then the next verse was about an ENTIRE DIFFERENT SUBJECT.
Just my 2¢.
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I'll also mention Alan Jackson's later work. For the longest time he just did a bunch of boring, hokey shit. Then he started to bud as a songwriter.
Did you really just praise Alan Jackson? I'm sure no matter how much he has "budded," the music is still overwhelmed with reverbed pedal steel guitars and things like "yee-haw."
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Yes, I did. And I also just slammed Queen. But:
Lyrical Quality
Leave his shitty producers out of this and stop trying to steal my King Of Thread Derailment title.
To get back on topic, Gary Puckett and the Union Gap.
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joni mitchell
tom waits
Rakim
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Dylan, naturally. Craig Finn from the Hold Steady puts interesting stories in his songs while still playing fun with the lyrics; it's an interesting style to me.
Paul Simon puts nice little images there. John Cale's global dysphoria is scarily intriguing. I *love* 'Nosferatu Man' by Slint where he throws in Hank's 'Rambling Man'.
I'm def not much of a lyrics guy, tho.
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Adam Turla from Murder By Death writes some pretty cool songs.
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Cedric Bixler-Zavala. Srsly, just listen.
Seriously, though, you can't go wrong with Nick Cave.
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I take the zach condon approach.
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I second Craig Finn.
Elliott Smith
I love Elliott Smith, but most of his lyrics revolve around him wallowing in self pity longing for a lost love or whining about his pathetic existence and dependency on fine scotch whiskey.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, there are bands like The Brian Jonestown Massacre. Love him or hate him, Anton Newcombe says things in a primitive manner, but what he says is beautiful, vivid, and painfully clear. Lyrics to "Stars" provided:
I thought I could touch the stars
I lie alone at night
I don't know where you are
my face explodes
teardrops into tears
and every second I'm not with you
well it seems like years.
I've told you
how I love you
and need you
will kill you
yeah, yeah
I won't die
but I don't feel the same
I lie awake at night
hoping to see you again
my face explodes
teardrops into tears
and every moment I'm not with you
well it seems like years.
I love you
I need you
yeah, yeah
and I told you
that I'd kill you
yeah, yeah
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If a song doesn't focus on lyrics, or just has unimportant, ignorable lyrics it can still be amazing. But if it has bad lyrics, I can't listen to it, I just sit there wincing. Lyrics are one of the most important parts of a song to me, though.
Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Colin Meloy, David Bowie, Matt Belamy, Morrissey (of course), many others.
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Did I mention Cake? I should probably mention Cake if I haven't already mentioned Cake.
Cake.
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My Favorites:
Colin Meloy, Jeff Magnum from Neutral Milk Hotel, Thom Yorke, John Darnielle from the Mountain Goats, Ben Gibbard, John Samson from the Weakerthans, Thomas Kalnoky from Streetlight Manifesto, Wayne Coyne
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i'm going to second craig finn and dan bejar.
i'll with also whateverth john darnielle
oh, and i forgot to mention bill callahan.
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Did I mention Cake? I should probably mention Cake if I haven't already mentioned Cake.
Cake.
Have you considered working in stand-up comedy?
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There are tons of others that I love, but Isaac Brock has written some of my favorite lyrics ever, so I'd have to say he's my favorite.
EDIT: I completely forgot to mention Doug Martsch; I believe he deserves a mention.
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Isaac Brock is a great lyricist but his voice, to me, is unbelievably annoying. And it's gotten worse with every record.
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Finally someone mentioned John K. Samson. I was getting worried for a second. Blake Schwarzenbach's lyrics still resonate with me pretty strongly.
And I'm sorry, but a song must have a minimum of five sick-rifts in order for me to like it.
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I personally love his voice, but only on the older records (Moon and Antarctica and earlier). Modest Mouse, in my opinion, has progressively gotten worse since then.
Not bad by any counts, but not nearly as good as they used to be.
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Crap, I forgot to mention Jason Molina of Songs: Ohia. What was I thinking? Well, no matter. I submit Jason Molina to my list (and damn near the top too).
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Spirit of the West.
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Also, while no one'd ever say Cauty or Drummond are master wordsmiths, 'Hey Hey We Are Not The Monkees' has got to be the best song title ever.
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Britt Daniel is a pretty good lyricist also, when you understand what the hell he's singing about.
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Did I mention Cake? I should probably mention Cake if I haven't already mentioned Cake.
Cake.
Have you considered working in stand-up comedy?
1/10 obvious troll
I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block and suggest the Beach Boys. Sure, the lyrics are simple, but that's half the fun: You actually know what the hell they're talking about at first listen. There's also the fact that Brian Wilson was a very skilled composer and could have two or three different things going at once, all of them harmonizing with not only themselves but each other.
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KimJongSick, I'm going to have to agree with you. The quality with which their lyrics and music blended, plus the simple fun (and 'nostaglia' of better times) you mentioned are quite evident in the Beach Boys.
btw: nothing wrong with Cake if you like a short skirt and a looooonnnnnngggggggg jack-et
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Britt Daniel is a pretty good lyricist also, when you understand what the hell he's singing about.
Does this mean you do? Can you explain it to me?
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Some songs by Pavement (Stephen Malkmus and everyone else in the band, i don't know their names), or the Russian Futurists (Which is just Matthew Adam Hart, really). They're all pleasant to recite. Plus Lennon/McCartney. I could probably think of more when pressed.
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Britt Daniel is a pretty good lyricist also, when you understand what the hell he's singing about.
Does this mean you do? Can you explain it to me?
fuckin'
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The Long Winters most of the time.
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Can't we all just get along?
NEVERMIND
I like Elliott Smith & Cake.
Also Minus the Bear & Bruce Springsteen.
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my list goes like this:
1. Jason Molina
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Besides the obvious heavyweights like Nick Cave, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, etc.:
- Daniel Higgs, both solo and with Lungfish
His songwriting is totally singular--often repetitive and abstract, and with lots of references to the occult, religion, mythology, etc., especially in his solo work. His (instrumental) album "Atomic Yggdrasil Tarot" album comes with a book of acrostics; here's my favorite one:
Mighty
Undulations
Synchronize
Into
Cosmoses
David Berman (Silver Jews)
This guy is channeling Dylan, as far as I'm concerned. Steeped in Americana but with a philosophical weight.
Joanna Newsom
Definitely my favorite songwriter of the "New Weird America"/whatever scene. Totally deserves the recognition she's getting. Some of the songs on Ys are just totally breathtaking.
Immortal Technique
I can't wait for this guy's next album. Insane political rap with a wide breadth of historical knowledge, and some brutal disses.
Captain Beefheart
People tend to focus on how weird his music was, while his songwriting remains overlooked. His early lyrics had a firm basis in blues tradition, but later in his career his lyrics were more like great abstract art--they often contained veiled sociopolitical or environmental commentary, but were sometimes total dada.
"the ocean/gave me oysters/the people watching it/gave me ulcers/when the ocean/is wounded/it takes the/whole world to heal"
Also: Jandek, Nico, Bill Callahan, Michael Franti.
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fuckin'
Wow, he is a good lyricist.
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Cohen is the dude that comes to mind. If only his music was as awesome as his lyrics. (Not to say it's terrible, it's just not that good :-D ).
Generally though I don't mind bad lyrics if the song is good.
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David Berman (Silver Jews)
THIS
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"Don't" by Dino Jr
WHYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!?????
WHY DON"T YOU LIKE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!?!?!?!?!
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I wish that I had noticed this thread a few days earlier so that I could say "woah an English major enjoys Colin Meloys style of lyrics no way" and seem relevant to the flow of conversation.
As it stands though, Robert Forster anyone?
Come ooooooooonnnnnnn
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Ooooh, Tim Kasher.
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Aesop Rock
I concur with DynamiteKid on Nick Cave
Mikael Åkerfeldt
Tomas Haake
Aesop Rock writes amazing stuff, some of it, at least to me, seems nonsensical, but then he writes a song like Holy Smokes.
Nick Cave, for all the aforementioned reasons, I couldnt have said it better than they did.
Åkerfeldt for being Åkerfeldt and doing what he does.
Haake... well, besides being an amazing drummer, he writes good, interesting, weird, stuff.
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Off the top of my head, Agalloch and Savatage. The way Agalloch reads reminds me of Yeats, which is a good thing, and there is something about the lyrics in songs from Savatage that just sounds right, not sure how to describe it other than that.
I think Iron Maiden also has some good lyrics, though part of that indubitably is Bruce Dickinson's singing.
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when it comes ot lyrical quality theres no one on my opinion better than that of bob dylan, close behind him is the magical works of woodie guthrie, chad vangaalen (do'nt be hatin'), leonard cohen, robert plant, john lennon, (sorry beatles fans, no paul mcartney the love song addict) robert johnson, beard guy from iron and wine, lou reed, david bowie, and christina vangar
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No, you've got it right. John Lennon is a far better writer than Paul McCartney. I never had as much love for Paul as everyone else seems to.
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McCartney? The motherfucker wrote "Band on the Run" with Wings. That alone should be a bright red indicator that he was never the creative force behind the Lennon/McCartney songwriting team. The guy just played bass and piano really well and had a pretty voice.
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If I was forced to say who I preferred out of Lennon and McCartney, I'd say George Harrison.
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Lennon has better social principles, Paul wrote amazing fucking pop songs.
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"Band on the Run"
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I like Band on the Run, and Jet.
I thought the major, was a laydehhh suff-a-ra-gette!
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I love "Jet." It's no "Live And Let Die," though.
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McCartney? The motherfucker wrote "Band on the Run" with Wings. That alone should be a bright red indicator that he was never the creative force behind the Lennon/McCartney songwriting team. The guy just played bass and piano really well and had a pretty voice.
i'm sorry dude, i have al of paul mcartneys stuff (why? i don't know, i should burn some of the albums) and you know he's written some good songs with wings, the only songs that i would even consider on the same page as lennon or the great bob dylan or the others i've indicated would be band on the run and yesterday, two songs hoorah, his new album made me want to shove needles in my arm and shoot up heroin so i couldn't make out the very very very very uncreative lyrics and his old stuff? his old stuff just reminded me how lost he was without john, he was lost without john
of course i should probably shut up, paul mcartney can write songs better than me lol
and besides "band on the run" was CO-WRITTEN by george harrison and linda mcartney, so SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH