THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: imapiratearg on 01 Dec 2007, 07:51
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(Move this thread if it belongs somewhere else, please.)
I would like a new mp3 player for Christmas, since my old one broke. Mostly what I want is something that is at least 30GB in storage, is rugged, and is easy to use. My first choice right now is Microsoft's Zune, but I know no one who has one, and I have only read a Yahoo! article on them, and the customer reviews on BestBuy.com. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Oh, and I DON'T want an iPod. I fucking hate them.
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if you hate iPods, why would you want a Zune?
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Tommy, I disagree, they're trendy as hell and every motherfucker on the planet has one. Y'know who else was a motherfucker? Hitler. I bet Hitler would own an iPod.
Plus I HATE iTunes because it is the opposite of user friendly, and it sometimes ask for updates.
You should tell me what a compelling argument FOR the iPod is, then I'll consider it!
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If you hate ipods for the annoying "apple/ipods" suck reason that most people have (which are 95% of the time without any basis or experience at all) you really aught to reconsider. I've owned a variety of MP3 players from a variety of companies and the iPods I've owned have been the most organized, most reliable and most streamlined of them all. If you've had bad experiences with iPods that's one thing but if you hate them for no reason, stop being so snobby and try 'em out.
Also, since when did something being "trendy" detract from its quality. No offense, but that's the stupidest fucking reason for not wanting something. It's popular b/c it's a good device. I've also found iTunes to be quite user friendly. You can look at updates whenever you want, you can disable the "asks for updates" feature very easily, you can arrange music pretty much any way you want and it gives you lots of options for burning/ripping CDs.
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There are valid reasons for not getting an iPod, such as disliking iTunes. And wanting the support of lossless media files. And...uhm...
Wanting buttons that click?
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Get Creative Zen Vision: M. I have one and I love it to death. Better than Zune and Ipod.
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every motherfucker on the planet has one.
That's cos they work REALLY FUCKING WELL.
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The main reason I won't get an iPod is: I refuse to put iTunes on my computer. Everyone I know who uses it on a PC, their computer has crashed or runs like shit.
I was considering an Creative Zen Vision M, but my friend had one, dropped it, and broke it. He also told me that it does not play songs in the order of the album they are on, but in alphabetical order instead.
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Don't use iTunes then. So many alternatives now. 90% of them free.
Get an iPod.
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You can't have an mp3 player.
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Yeah, seriously, if you want 30g and up, iPod is probably your best choice. The new Zunes are pretty sweet, but you're really going to have the best luck finding media and accessories for an iPod. They're small, relatively reliable, and so streamlined that you'll probably never have a problem with it unless physical damage occurs. If you want small flash memory players, I have a Sony Walkman and it's awesome. But for big storage, I have to recommend the iPod.
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Also, go for refurbished iPods (they come with the same warranty as new ones) and save a crapload of money. Right now, because of the new models that just came out, last gen 30GB ones are $135 off the Apple website. I am currently digging through my things to try find stuff to sell in order to get some money for one.
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Tommy, I disagree, they're trendy as hell and every motherfucker on the planet has one.
that's not a good reason to dislike anything. espescially not something useful. that's like saying "i'm sick of having eyeballs; everyone i know has at least two! i think i'll gouge them out."
it makes you sound like an idiot.
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That's his point. He was being sarcastic.
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whew! i was gonna say....that seemed pretty out of character.
i hear people use that argument all the time. i'm glad other people think it's moronic too.
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The reason why i hate the zune is that it runs highly restrictive drm that fucks every thing up, and don't get me started on microsofts software issues. When i had a pc it ask for update once a week so i doubt th zune will be any better.
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Creative Zen is supposed to be a really good alternative.
Reason I don't like iPods - The one I have broke every other month, and continued doing so every time I sent it back for repairs. Then the warranty expired. Also the way they organize their music is annoying (mysteriously labeled files in mysteriously labeled folders), and the fact that it's only one way uploading with the supported software bugs me even more.
Supposedly the new iPods don't break quite as often, but I was so put off by my experience that I haven't bought a new one.
I would buy the iPhone if I had enough money. That's just the coolest thing ever.
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yeah, i know what you mean. everyone i know who owned an iPod had it break within a year or so.
however, i had a 5th generation video (30gig) and it lasted me two or three years without any problem whatsoever (until two days ago when it finally gave in and died). so i have no personal problems with iPods but i know lots of people who do.
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I've owned three iPods in my time, all of which lasted a couple of years. I got new ones for more space and sold the old ones so I didn't replace them due to any technical issues of any kind. In fact, I've never had any serious technical problems of any kind with the iPods I've owned. Furthermore, you can organize the music in files just like you can organize other files i.e. pretty much any way you want. Just go into the file that has all your itunes music and rearrange the music to your liking. It's really simple.
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If you're really still iffy about iPods, go with a Creative. The Vision:M is a great player, and it sounds like your friend just had uncharacteristic problems with his. I would strongly recommend the new ZEN (just got mine and it's absolutely lovely), but it only goes up to 16GB with and SD slot that I believe takes 8GB cards, so not quite the capacity you're looking for.
As far as legitimate reasons not to like iPods, they're very restricted. Even though you don't have to use iTunes, they're not exactly optimized for other programs and I've seen them go screwy necessitating a complete reformat more than enough times. Eventually people may have to give up and cave to the iTunes overlords, and really, iTunes is a crappy program, especially on a PC. Additionally, there's no extensive file format support. Back when I got my iAudio X5L, I had several GB of music in things ranging from wma to FLAC to bloody ogg vorbis, so an iPod would have been completely out of the question. Since then I've done away with the stuff I had in FLAC/ogg vorbis, but I'd still have to convert more wmas than I'd like if I ever went with a player as limited in functionality as an iPod. Speaking of functionality, where is the iPod's FM radio? Voice recording? These are things I've loved dearly on every HDD player I've ever owned and I'm not about to give them up.
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I have to say, if you have problems with iTunes on a mac, that's probably your own fault. If you're having problems with it on a PC...it's probably you're own fault.
If your PC crashes, then it's not the fault of iTunes. Your PC is just crap. I can't run iTunes on m PC very efficiently, but it's over 7 years old. Even without iTunes on it, the PC is slow and crap.
My friend, has a nice PC. Not very powerful, but he has a lot of space and keeps it clean. He runs graphic intensive software, over 20 firefox tabs, torrents, soulseek, several IM clients AND iTunes. At the same time. With multiple users. He crashes maybe once a week, when he opens more youtube tabs and firefox stops responding.
There was also that period he kept trying to use AIM...
It turned out that AIM kept installing viruses with it's installation package.
That happened a few times when I had that Sony mp3 player...
THAT fucked up my other computer (the newer one)
And after about 2 weeks of trying to get my Zen V to work with PC and getting countless errors which stopped the player from working, I just gave up on the PC altogether.
iTunes is just about the only program that hasn't fucked that PC up.
It ask to update every few weeks, but that's to stop it from fucking up, right?
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Just go into the file that has all your itunes music and rearrange the music to your liking. It's really simple.
Not the files on your computer, the files on the iPod. Last time I checked (I admit, it was a while ago) the folders were all labeled (seemingly) random things, with the song files in the folders labeled equally mysterious things.
And yeah, I was one of the few who had constant problems with the iPod, no one else I know had quite as much trouble with it.
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I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. The ipod interface simply replicates whatever is on your computer. If you have everything tagged correctly on the computer, the organization on the ipod itself should be pretty much perfect. I know it has been on all of my iPods anyway.
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Oh, right, what I meant was when you plug your iPod in, and then open it up manually (as in on the computer, without iTunes, not to physically open it up), then have a look at the way that the music is organized internally. I guess it's to prevent people from just plugging in their iPod in someone elses computer and just copy and dragging all the files across.
It's not a big deal, there's software to work around it, but with other mp3 players you can just click and drag whatever files into the necessary spot on the actual player, and it just works. You don't even need another media player. With the iPod you do.
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Another vote for creative zen vision: m :)
Love mine
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For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.
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iPods are quite nice, but lately I've found I get better sound out of my Walkman phone simply due to it having the Sony "Megabass" bass boost feature. If anyone knows of a way to replicate this on the previous gen iPod nano (which I have and am extremely unhappy with the tinny sound quality of) then I will be able to save myself some money in about a month.
I have used the same decent pair of in-ear Sennheiser earbuds with both players and the Walkman phone still sounds better. I've also listened to my friend's current-gen iPod nano and it sounds the same (ie: tinny). I will be upgrading my phone to a pda phone reasonably soon (once my current contract runs out) and that'll have shithouse sound, so I'm looking to either make my current nano sound better or get a new Walkman/something else with decent bass response.
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You can always mess with the equalizer settings on the iPod to get better or at least different quality sound but I'm not sure what you want from it. I've got a Nano (not sure what gen.) and I'm pretty happy with it. I had a first gen Mini and that crapped out on me right after the warranty expired. It was just the battery so I'm open to the option of fixing it but I'm not very technically minded and might fuck it up. At anyrate I love the Nano I have which I bought off a co-worker, I've never had any problems with iTunes running on my PC which all in all is not an amazing machine and I really only manage the music from inside iTunes itself. I don't use any unusual file formats (just Mp3, Mp4, WMA and of course AAC). It's a pretty simple device to use. I'm going to try to put some photos on it tonight.
Oh and Est, you might want to look into the Sony Ericcsson w960i. 8Gb internal upgradable memory (i think) with the same walkman features that you'd be used to plus Gracenote music database stuff. Not sure if it's out here yet and it isn't very PDA-y but it might be up your alley if you want a Walkman phone with a fair bit of memory.
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first gen nano=tall, skinny, shiny, plastic
second gen nano=Tall, skinny, shiny, aluminium
third gen=wideboy.
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a friend of mine has one of these (http://www.iriver.com/) and apparently it is great.
personally, i love my ipod. it has been nothing but excellent to me for as long as i have had it.
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For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.
The Creative firmware is the highest degree of suck. Check their support forums; there's probably about 40 or 50 pages of people (including myself, at one point) saying that updating the firmware completely killed their player. Of course, the faulty firmware update is still up there and they refuse to do anything about it unless you want to pay some $200 dollars to have it repaired.
Honestly, just get an ipod and be done with it. Zune has that whole weird DRM business, Creative's software and support is awful, and I'm way too lazy to read up on other models.
Or you could just use a walkman like me and put all your music on tapes
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i actually have a Zune (insert gasp here). I don't have one of the fancy new ones, but I like it anyways, especially since they did a software update and now my older generation Zune runs quite similarly to the newer ones.
Now, for my mp3 player owning history. I used to own an iPod, but it no longer lives due to my own clumsiness; I dropped it, it landed on a corner and the screen cracked. That being said, I have also dropped my Zune and it has not cracked. So if you're clumsy, I'd say go with a Zune. Also, I like the Zune interface better than iTunes. Also, forgive me, all you iPod owners out there, but I can't stand scrolling around in a circle forever to get to my music. There's also the iPod touch, but I've heard a lot of problems about it, including online reviews and from people I know who own them.
In summary, I've owned both an iPod and a Zune, and I much prefer the Zune.
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Anybody see that experiment where to break a first gen iPod nano, they had to toss it 30 feet into the air and run over it in a car several times before it broke?
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I just bought an Archos 605.
This thing is insane. It's better than any other mp3 player you have ever imagined. It's got a web browser, an e-book reader, it can hook up to a television and play media files from your computer over wifi, and I think there's an optional firmware upgrade that allows it to fuck your mothers.
So good.
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If you really don't want an iPod, than definitely get a Zune. I played around with my friend's Zune for a while, and I really liked it.
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first gen nano=tall, skinny, shiny, plastic
second gen nano=Tall, skinny, shiny, aluminium
third gen=wideboy.
Ok it's second gen then. It's also greem. GREEM MOTHERFUCKER!
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Anyone have an opinion on the iRiver?
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i too have been wondering about that.
www.iriver.com
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a friend of mine has one of these (http://www.iriver.com/) and apparently it is great.
personally, i love my ipod. it has been nothing but excellent to me for as long as i have had it.
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For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.
Wait, what the hell? Why are you just pulling figures out of your ass?
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They've quit making the Zen Vision M, its being replaced with the Zen, which will soon have 32gb of flash storage and a slot for an SD card. That's my 2 cents.
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Wait, what the hell? Why are you just pulling figures out of your ass?
What on earth makes you think that? I bet you were one of the 5000 people who bought a creative product that worked.
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What on earth makes me assume that you don't have access to any kind of statistics re: the number of units sold against the number of units faulty upon purchase, for both products?
Do you really need me to answer that?
No, I am completely impartial to the supposed battle between ipod and zen. I am, however, easily annoyed by mind-boggling debate techniques, and the chip on the average (internet using) Apple user's shoulder.
Though I must add that Zens have better sound :)
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We're cool. It's not a very well known fact that squillions of people but faulty Zunes either, and that every one of those people takes my posts too seriously.
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Oh and Est, you might want to look into the Sony Ericcsson w960i. 8Gb internal upgradable memory (i think) with the same walkman features that you'd be used to plus Gracenote music database stuff. Not sure if it's out here yet and it isn't very PDA-y but it might be up your alley if you want a Walkman phone with a fair bit of memory.
I already have it in mind, but it's coming out at the end of January and Vodafone probably won't even have it on offer until the middle of next year. That situation is not cool.
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I was considering an Creative Zen Vision M, but my friend had one, dropped it, and broke it. He also told me that it does not play songs in the order of the album they are on, but in alphabetical order instead.
Since this was never addressed, I'ma going to address it. No this isn't the way a Z:VM works. It can work in two modes, based on the ID3 tags, or based on the physical folders on the hard drive. Either way, it'll play 'em in whatever the hell order you want.
I have and love my 30GB Z:VM. I dropped it, it broke, I spent $25 (the "return fee") +shipping and sent it back and they fixed it. Haven't applied the new firmware update because any time I apply any firmware update to anything (routers, MP3 players, etc - except my old 1stgen iPod nano actually) it's broken it terribly.
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I have an old iRiver h120. I've had it 4 or so years now. Plays pretty much everything I throw at it. Not sure about there newer stuff, 'cos I haven't tried it but you can pick my model up on ebay pretty cheap last time I looked.
It's annoying 'cos no-one seems to be making any more big hard drive players apart from ipods (can't and wont buy 'cos I have music in too many formats for the poor thing), I wanted a creative vision : m but they've been discontinued - will have to keep an eye out for them on ebay or something.
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if you reall are against the ipod the i would go with the zune...i know a couple of people who have then and they love it soo much....they recently updated the zune interface and it looks sleek and sexy...i'd say that if you wanted to get an mp3 player that isn't an ipod and holds the same ammount of storage then go with the zune...and from what i hear they are durable
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Your arguments against the iPod fall short, horribly
I agree, I dont particularly like iTunes, HOWEVER, your argument against it is terrible.
One: You can disable the auto updates (despite the fact that I have never had a problem with them)
Two: Anyone who had a problem with iTunes doing something strange to their computer PROBABLY had some other shit in the background (ie: spyware) that conflicted, nothing to do with iTunes
Three: While I long for the functionality of simply having a LIST of artists, of which WMP had before, iTunes is NOT a terrible piece of software
Four: iPods have more accessories than any other portable MP3 player that exists. (Including a case for the very nice 80gig iPod Classic that looks like you strapped a tire around the thing)
Five: "Trendy" SO WHAT? Yes, everyone has them, why does everyone has them? Because everyone has found that they have the proper amount of functionality for BEING A MP3 PLAYER, and they are surprisingly durable
My ONE AND ONLY SEMI-LEGIT KIND OF NITPICKY COMPLAINT ABOUT iPods: Polished Stainless steel picks up fingerprints like a motherfucker.
And that whole no artist list in iTunes
I worked retail for six+ years. I have seen every single brand imaginable of MP3 player. For a cheap 1gig - ish one, the Sandisk ones are decent(they arent especially durable though) For any of the ones sporting an actual HDD inside of them... GET AN iPod. There simply is nothing up to that level of quality. Period. Not MS, not creative, not samsung, NOT A SINGLE ONE. What was wrong with most of the iPods that came back? Idiots couldnt figure out how to hard reset them when they disconnected the ipod without ejecting (in itunes). (which a windows update and itunes update that came out six months ago fixed)
I have little experience with the Zune (other than the terrible 1st gen) so I dont know if the newer ones are better.
I didnt want an iPod, but I considered all of my options, and considered what I had to choose from, and what I knew, and in the end, it still made more sense to spend a couple extra bucks getting an ipod and a hardshell case.
About iRiver: While working retail, the solid state irivers seemed to be quite good, but the HDD ones I was kinda meh on, but I have no experience with their new gen of stuff
@ Spineless: Supporting Lossless media files? Like what? Raw video? Raw 44.1khz audio? So you want like, 10 uncompressed CDs on an 80gig ipod? maybe 10 minutes of raw video? There is no such thing as lossless. Digital is lossy by its very functionality. you want what? ogg support? Pick your battles, your argument is weak against the entire concept of a "MP3 PLAYER"
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All that text and you didn't even address my issue of iPods having shitty bass response. I am disappointed!
I have played with all of the EQ settings on my nano. The bass boost EQ setting distorts everything and every other setting is pretty shit. Maybe I am expecting too much from a nano? I am not sure. Perhaps full iPods have better sound quality? Again, not sure!
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Maybe I am expecting too much from a completely digital equalizer interface on a tiny computer-like gadget?
Fixed.
Digital EQ has never, ever compared to a real equalizer. My 80 gig iPod Video has the same problem. It's not a big enough annoyance so I usually just ignore it.
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Anybody see that experiment where to break a first gen iPod nano, they had to toss it 30 feet into the air and run over it in a car several times before it broke?
The first gen Nanos are seriously invincible. I have one; got it two years ago and since then:
-I have completely soaked it twice (by leaving it in my purse, and leaving the purse in the rain)
-I drop it.......well, most of the times I use it. Which is often outside. On concrete sidewalks.
-I've run it pretty much constantly.
It's very very scratched, obviously, but I've only ever had to hard reset once; after the first soaking, I had to let it dry out for a day before it worked again. Other than that, NO PROBLEMS. It's unbelievable. I'm clumsy and careless....a small electronic device should have no chance. Bass? I have a decent set of big, ear-muff type headphones and I've always thought it was fine.
I was given it as a Christmas gift though, so that's why I have an iPod...left to my own devices, I probably would've chosen one of the Creative models. That being said, I'm a pretty pleased Apple customer too.
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@ Spineless: Supporting Lossless media files? Like what? Raw video? Raw 44.1khz audio? So you want like, 10 uncompressed CDs on an 80gig ipod? maybe 10 minutes of raw video? There is no such thing as lossless. Digital is lossy by its very functionality. you want what? ogg support? Pick your battles, your argument is weak against the entire concept of a "MP3 PLAYER"
I'm sorry to be pedantic here, really sorry infact. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm picking at scabs just to make them bleed, because that certainly isn't what I'm doing, and I really hope that it doesn't seem like I'm trying to start an argument or something, I wouldn't usually behave like this, because we actually hate pedants here, even put them in the stocks and pelt them with fruit, but...
My screen name is Spinless. No 'e'.
Good day to you. sir Statik with a 'kay'!
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Digital EQ has never, ever compared to a real equalizer. My 80 gig iPod Video has the same problem. It's not a big enough annoyance so I usually just ignore it.
See, problem is though that the sound on my Walkman phone is better. I am merely expecting a premium soundgadget to have better sound than a phone.
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for some reason my ipod has taken to putting out music at such an incredibly low volume. I remember when I forst got it, listening to the thing with the full volume was painful, but now it is the only way i can get a semi decent sound out of it. The headphones put out volume fine through the little holes on the back but on the main earphone thing it is really quiet. Probably the (ugly) headphones though.
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It is customary to destroy the headphones that come packaged with the iPod! On our island, people use a podphone stomping festival as a marketing ploy for big shoes!
Once a year we dump all our iPod headphones in a big pile and we stomp them to dust! Is much fun.
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Going a bit off topic here, but can anyone recommend me some in-ears (canalphones)? I'm sick of these earbud thingies.
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I've tried about 50 varieties of these, and they're all exactly the same. These (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=CE318717&fnode=home/shop_ipod/ipod_accessories/headphones&nplm=M9394G/C) are the best value, however.
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'Value' isn't a word you often see linking to the apple store.
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Considering the fact that anything comparable is around the $100 mark, they're a pretty good value.
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@ Anyways : I didnt work for apple, I worked for Best Buy and then Circuit City (Best Buy as a company is better to work for, benefits wise, but I was far happier as a warehouse employee @ CC)
@ Spinless : I do apologize for misreading your name
As far as bass response, I would agree that the digital EQ sucks in the iPod, granted, I have never hooked mine up to a stereo, as I didn't buy the iPod for such a thing (could get into a whole argument on how MP3 is pretty shitty for an audiophile), I use the standard headphones that came with it, because on the occasions that I happen to be listening to it, Im either listening to it quietly, or while walking around (or in my car on my crappy car speakers). When I want to listen to music, I put CDs into my nice stereo.
I do feel thats kind of beyond the point though, if you are looking for a (and Ill add the emphasis) MP3 PLAYER and making arguments about how a MP3 PLAYER is terrible for your audiophile ears... well, I think theres other issues that you have to contend with. Digital Audio is lossy by its very nature. Audio, in its true form, is analog... MP3s are super compressed audio files, and while there is other audio codecs which arent as lossy, MP3 became the dominant format. Yes, there is better ones, yes we could get into a whole argument about which is better and why, but again, if you are an audiophile buying a MP3 player, you arent going to like ANYTHING put in front of you.
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I think the iPod and lossy audio files aren't the only problem here.
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htm
Fantastic read and touches on a lot of what this thread is about.
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I am not an audiophile by a longshot, I just know what I like.
What I am saying is that I have an iPod Nano and a Walkman Phone. The Walkman Phone sounds better through any set of headphones I care to use on them, be they the stock-standard earbuds, a pair of crappy headphones, a pair of good Sennheiser canalphones, or a pair of Sennheiser HD280s, and the Walkman phone only has like, 4 EQ settings. The point is that the Walkman phone has a Bass boost feature that doesn't distort the hell out of the sound. That is pretty much the only difference! If the iPod had this feature I would prefer it. It doesn't, so I am stuck using a phone as a music device and trying to base future phone purchases on whether or not they are Sony Walkman phones, which is very restricting.
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after reading this thread and that article i can't help but to question what myself, and many are others losing from listening to music in a format purely because it's convenient, available and pretty much free . i love my music. i own a few turntables and have a large vinyl collection that i cherish dearly and listen to it whenever i get the chance, but due to working and commuting, i rely on the most convenient format, being mp3s on my phone. i kind of get the feeling that i'm being priced out of hearing music in the way it should be just because i can't afford good headphones or to have the time to indulge myself in the almost decent equipment i found on the side of the road(council clean-ups rock). and that sucks! i guess i just feel slightly robbed of the experience. sorry for taking this slightly off topic from the original post. i just find this interesting and annoying
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Well, the reverse side of that article is that the guy who wrote it is a total snob and you must not take him too seriously. After reading it, I could hardly listen to my iPod or music on my computer for a month. It nearly ruined the experience for me.
Admit, though, that you would never have noticed most of the shit he brings up were it not pointed out to you. MP3 is not this disgusting, inferior beast of a format. It's far more convenient than lugging a turntable around, and the human mind fills up the empty space created by lossy audio formats enough for it not to bother most people, even those with great ears.
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admittedly, tinnitus has probably ruined my ears for any decent listening
plus, the internets are oh so easy to believe!
i'm not that gullible, just questioning how much has been lost due to technology.
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Seriously OT, but I would more question the record companies choices of "popular" than to start going after their producers and engineers and such. I do see his point, and he admits to being an amateur audiophile of sorts. But I think the major problem that exists in the mainstream recording industry is (just a quick FYI, this is NOT my original thought, I wish I could quote it back to where I read it from, but its long since escaped my mind) concerned about IMMEDIATE profit, not long term profit. The writer of the article I read basically said, record labels arent looking for the next clapton, the next rolling stones, the next aerosmith, they are looking to sign whats super duper hot for the next 15 minutes and pump as many records out of them as fast as possible to make as much money in as short a time as possible. I would wager this could have a lot to do with that article writers issues with modern CDs. There will always be one hit, or one album wonders, just bands that cannot exist for longer than that no matter, but the recent (~ last 15 years) proliferation of bands that only exist for an album or two and then drop off the face of the earth because the fickle US consumer base left them for dead (figuratively). I think the "make lots of money now, and just sign someone new in two years" mentality has kind of killed the majority of mainstream music for me...
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I think the iPod and lossy audio files aren't the only problem here.
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htm
Fantastic read and touches on a lot of what this thread is about.
Yeah, that was a really great read. And I've suffered from the same "music fatigue" as he has, getting to the point at which I actually get uncomfortable when a song I used to relish starts coming through my headphones. I'm not confident I want to blame it on compression, though, as plausible as it may be. The problem for me is that I am most often active while I listen to music. I've got my mp3 player in my pocket and my headphones are perpetually on. It seems like audiophiles are content to have expensive, relatively delicate equipment that allows them to fully enjoy their music, and they sit down in a quiet place and listen. I don't think I can do that. Plus, my 30 / 60 gig mp3 players wouldn't have the space for all my music were it FLAC or some other lossless format.
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As I said before, these guys are snobs in a way. I'm 100% sure that the author of that article has an iPod which he listens to daily. Separate from that, he has a set-up devoted to hi-fi sound, which many people do.
There's nothing wrong with owning an iPod for convenience's sake. I read the point of the thing as "it is nice to understand more about your music and be able to appreciate it in a dedicated environment at a higher quality as well as on your iPod on a crowded train on the way to work."
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How music was meant to be enjoyed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n33ACfZ45ys)
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That's awesome.
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going back to my main point...not many people appreciate music as much as us folk do, it just sucks that the expectations seem to be going down? no one is actually hearing what should be heard due to this supposed "compression"? this is just turning into people who love music and people who are fed music.we listen to what we like because we appreciate it, we respect it. lets argue more!!!
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I dig that guy's headphones. I think it's about time I made another pair.
Edit: No, really, my "Red One-eyed Black Jack of Black Hearts" headphones are looking kinda old.
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/619/oneeyedblackjackofheartnt1.png)
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Just go for an iPod. They work pretty well and if you want to buy an accessory for it like an FM transmitter then you wont have to look hard.
And iTunes works well as far as a music organizer, but if you buy music from the store you're basically paying for songs but never actually owning them, therefore letting Apple screw you over completely.
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I was checking out mp3 players at circuit city the other day and I've come to some conclusions but have some questions.
The new zune is pretty sweet. I liked the firmware when i friend updated his on the old one, love the big screen, controls and interface. I know this shouldn't be a problem for the average customer but I'm kind of concerned that I'd go over 80 gigs not long after I got the zune. Media player tells me I'm at 55gb plus I have about 300 albums not even on my computer yet so I don't know where exactly that puts me. Is there a higher capacity zune out there?
I thought the Ipod classic kind of sucked, but this opinion is from just the store's floor model which didn't have anything on it to check out the firmware. It seems to me that the screen is smaller than the last generation (looks about the same size as the new nano) plus the new interface only uses the left side of the screen. I don't know if the right has album artwork or something since the store's was empty but it feels like the screen is underused. If anyone has the new Ipod classic, what's the deal with the interface?
I can't decide yet so I guess it's a good thing that my refund check for tuition hasn't come in yet
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I have a previous generation video iPod and my mom has the new iPod Classic. They're about the same, save for the silver color and thinner body. Screen's the same, artwork is displayed in a really nice way (in a collage on the main screen next to the list of sources. you can also scroll through your artwork to pick an album like you've been able to in the last few versions of iTunes). The firmware's the same save for the collage thing and some kickass new games included.
Basically I'd say go with a 160 GB iPod.
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This new 160 GB iPod idea has me drooling. I hate having a Mac that is too old to use Tiger. I need a new Mac.
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but if you buy music from the store you're basically paying for songs but never actually owning them, therefore letting Apple screw you over completely.
(Note: I have not kept super current on pay to D/L services and DRM since I stopped having to know anything about it 2 years ago, so feel free to correct me if I get something wrong)
This statement, IMO, is a common misconception of DRM. While we could have an entire discussion about how DRM can hinder legal users of downloaded files (and Steve Jobs himself has even criticized DRM, saying it hinders legal users and does nothing against illegal users, hackers break DRM easily, CDs without DRM worked fine, and the only reason iTunes HAS DRM is because the "big 4" record labels essentially forced them to in order to do business with apple, which EMI has stopped requiring, btw) ANYWAY, back on track, DRM can hinder a legal user, but for the most part, for a standard user, its not particularly noticeable (at least with iTunes songs) with other services, they had ridiculous 3 burn limits and 2 computer limits and shit like that, iTunes does limit the number of simultaneous computers able to play it (with account information and all that) and you can transfer your licenses to other computers as you upgrade and such. I think DRM is shit, for many of the same reasons Jobs does, but thats besides the point. You DO own the files (and thereby that copy of the song), but they are attempting to put restrictions in order to keep you from sharing the file, just as there are laws saying you are allowed to make personal use copies, but not distribute copies of CDs you purchase at a store, DRM is in place to attempt to "digitally" enforce said laws.
In conclusion, yes it feels like you dont "own" the file, but you do (and besides, there are easy ways around the DRM, if you are so inclined to get around it)
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For every 1000 iPods sold, maybe 100 will break. Sometimes, the fault of the user.
For every 1000 creative zens sold, I reckon about 700 of these won't work straight out of the box.
Thank you for basing this post on reliable information!
Seriously, though, I love my Zen to death. More functional, less expensive, and all-around better than the iPod. And OP, you do have to do some funky things with naming files -- I've taken to including track numbers in the song titles to make sure it does what it's supposed to do.
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Can someone seriously recommend a non-ipod mp3 player.
I don't like ipod's because I don't like the wheel thing. Dont tell me about it's benefits, I know them already.
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i have shocking data relevent to this conversation.
actually, i just have a question but i've always wanted to say that. anyway, i had 5th gen iPod video for years and it broke recently. i was bummed. so last week i bought an 80 gig classic for myself for my birthday and it's pretty wonderful except for one serious flaw.
played through a tape adapter in my car, it's about half as loud as my old one. changed the volume to max under settings, crank it all the way up, crank all the songs volumes up in iTunes. it's the same, old volume when i play it on my computer but it's ridiculously quiet in my car. it might just be my stereo or my tape adapter or something but i only noticed it with my brand-new iPod. anyone else had similar problems with the new classics?
it's not too big of a deal except some of my music is very quiet and with everything turned all the way up, it's barely audible while driving.
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Hmmmm.
I've read this whole thing, and I see convincing arguments for both sides..(all three...maybe more?)
I have a Zune, and sure, its MS, but MS did a better job with the Zune than they do with PCs.
By a long shot.
I've got a 1st gen Zune 30.
I love it. (oh and no problems with DRM either.)((yet))
Ok enough ranting about how cool or whatever.
As (from how I see it) the Zune and the iPod are the two big competitors, I'll just use them as examples.
Zune can hold more songs than an iPod (due to the whole format thing) and no, I'm not an audiophile or wtfe they're called..so I haven't noticed any huge difference quality-wise from mp3 to wma. "Sure," you may say, "but you can just get an 80 or 160 gig iPod"
yes, but you can also boost the hd in the Zune to 80. (and in one or two cases that I've heard of, they're now making a 160 gb laptop hd that will fit in a Zune such as mine with no problem.)
Later on I can dig up the sites where I've seen FAQs and whatnot.
Next up--yes, the Zune is more durable than the MODERN iPods (at least in my humble experiences). The old iPods were freakin beasts! but not so much anymore.
I've dropped my Zune plenty of times and the worst thing to happen is a very slight scratch on the corner of the casing. My friend dropped his iPod in class, and it was COVERED in fresh scratches. (no exaggeration, we both right after the fact.)
You may say something like the Zune has a bigger screen, thus more opportunity for scratching...well thats what they make cases for..but even if you don't have a case, the screen still seems to be stronger. (side note: the Zune screen doesn't seem to be EXACTLY flush with the casing, as the iPod's does. If you drop it, there's that much less of a chance for scratching.)
Physical aspects..done...now for firmware.
(I'm going to skip software because in my opinion iTunes sucks and Zune (the media manager) sucks. It could be just that I try to do too much at once...but who knows?)
Firmware--The Zune runs smoother, for the most part, than the iPod (again, in my humble experiences). The whole thumbnail thing they have going for albums, the whole BIG picture of the CD cover instead of the little one...that's really something I like. Instead of having to hand off the Zune to show what it is..I just hit a button to light up the screen and BAM, it's there. On an iPod, however, you have to get all close.
ugh.
There's a few numbers here and there that I can't think of at the moment...so I won't bore you any more with those.
My vote is for the Zune.
(obvious?)
***As a side note, to the guy above me..(I really don't feel like going back and quoting you) my cousin has some sort of hack/mod that he used to edit something in the iPod firmware to boost the volume. I've got absolutely no idea what he did or how he did it, but if you looked hard enough, you could probably find something somewhere about it.
(I hope I didn't leave the point.)
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played through a tape adapter in my car, it's about half as loud as my old one. changed the volume to max under settings, crank it all the way up, crank all the songs volumes up in iTunes. it's the same, old volume when i play it on my computer but it's ridiculously quiet in my car. it might just be my stereo or my tape adapter or something but i only noticed it with my brand-new iPod. anyone else had similar problems with the new classics?
it's not too big of a deal except some of my music is very quiet and with everything turned all the way up, it's barely audible while driving.
Possibly an impedance mismatch?
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played through a tape adapter in my car, it's about half as loud as my old one. changed the volume to max under settings, crank it all the way up, crank all the songs volumes up in iTunes. it's the same, old volume when i play it on my computer but it's ridiculously quiet in my car. it might just be my stereo or my tape adapter or something but i only noticed it with my brand-new iPod. anyone else had similar problems with the new classics?
I have a new ipod which I play on my car stereo through a tape adapter and it seems to work just fine for me. I did have a problem similar to the one you're having a few months ago, but that turned out to be a combination of a damaged tape adapter and a blown out right speaker. I got a new tape adapter and it works fine now.
If your ipod's volume is fine when you use it on headphones, it's either a problem with the tape adapter or the stereo. I'd put money on the problem coming from you adapter, because they can be pretty fickle.
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I thought the Ipod classic kind of sucked, but this opinion is from just the store's floor model which didn't have anything on it to check out the firmware. It seems to me that the screen is smaller than the last generation (looks about the same size as the new nano) plus the new interface only uses the left side of the screen. I don't know if the right has album artwork or something since the store's was empty but it feels like the screen is underused. If anyone has the new Ipod classic, what's the deal with the interface?
I can't decide yet so I guess it's a good thing that my refund check for tuition hasn't come in yet
In response to your questions / statements:
The screen isn't smaller, in actuality, AFAIK, the only dimension that has changed is the depth of the ipod, and by like .1 of an inch or some such
The interface only ever used up that part of the screen to begin with (just because the select bar goes all the way across the screen doesnt mean its used), and yes, the blank area on the right side of the screen is used for zoomed in album covers / icons / information. ie: when you are slected on music, you will see part of an album cover kinda waver around for a few seconds before changing to a different cover. If you scroll to settings, it tells you how much HDD space you have (although this seems like a silly choice, why would I care how much space I have left while walking around, maybe a more detailed battery read out, whatever, nitpicking)
Also: The screen is still filled horizontally when you get into artist/album lists and such, to allow for longer names. I assume you didnt think they just used that side of the screen for "grey space" no matter what screen you were on.
Attempting some back on track:
The Zune's screen is not signifigantly bigger than the iPod's. They both run the same resolution (320x240). And last I checked... same resolution... bigger screen... pixels are stretched.
Personally, I would not be comfortable voiding my warranty to install a larger HDD in a Zune, if I needed bigger than 80gigs (I dont) I couldve purchased a 160gig iPod.
As far as durability. Personally, I think its negligible. If you are buying ANY portable music device, and not buying a case to put it in, you are nuts. My iPod cost too much money NOT to buy a case. (I have a hardened plastic case that covers the screen and has rubberized edges that cost me $30.
Also, something that would frustrate me to no end... I use my ipod the most in my car, driving, second most walking around campus to class (or sitting and waiting for my next class). I personally have no experience actually USING the zune as such, but how the controls feel, and the screen seem to be against any sort of ease of use in a situation that demands the majority of my attention elsewhere. Sitting in my car driving, I can make quick glances at the ipod screen and have no problems understanding exactly where it is at, artist or song wise.
File formats:
wma's are smaller, true, however, I dont care. wma's are not that much smaller to get me to switch from my ipod.
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Ah. good points there.
I want to hit the wma thing first though.
no exag. but I've gotten around...idk...1500 to 2000 more songs...because of wma.
and no..not at anything lower than 128kbps
to the warranty thing
Unless you buy an extended warranty, you're kinda stuck with a year.
After the year, you can do whatever.
Sure, I can understand not wanting to wait a year to expand it..so I just shot my own point out of the water..but idc.
I've got a case for my Zune. (faux leather with something over the front and back wrapped in the leather) and I think it too, cost about $30 I only mentioned it because almost no people that I know actually have a case for their mp3 players.
kinda sad actually...but true.
Obviously, everybody's votes are for something different...
My advice to you (and I think it's already been stated here at least twice but I'm going to reiterate it)
is to test drive the different mp3 players within your price range.
and see what you like the best.
I'm gonna think that pretty much everybody in here will agree on at least that.