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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: PacoSees on 06 Jan 2008, 05:18
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I've been an avid banjo player for a couple years now, and I've been trying to broaden my musical horizons by learning to play drums, fiddle, and piano.
I've been learning to play electric guitar with a good friend of mine and I've been borrowing his Les Paul for practice, but I think it's time I bought my own.
If I were to put up a list of things I was looking for in a guitar, would anyone be able to give me some models they think I would enjoy playing or at least trying out?
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...yes.
So do that, please. Otherwise this thread will just be fifty replies saying 'yes,' or most likely in Khar's case, 'no,' ha.
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Alright, so thanks to my small hands and habits I formed from banjo, I was hoping to find a guitar with a narrow neck and relatively low action.
As far as sound quality goes, something with great sustain and good tone all the way up the neck.
So it's not quite a list... but is there something with these qualities I could look for?
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SGs have tiny necks and are pretty easy to play, plus you have tons of high fret access. Their necks are notoriously weak though - ask KimJongSick on this very forum. I've not played one in a while because they don't agree with me so I don't know about their sustain.
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SGs have tiny necks and are pretty easy to play, plus you have tons of high fret access. Their necks are notoriously weak though - ask KimJongSick on this very forum. I've not played one in a while because they don't agree with me so I don't know about their sustain.
I beg to differ. The slim taper neck on the Les Paul is smaller.
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The neck of a Les Paul gets fatter down towards the higher frets. If you have small hands, this is a problem. The neck of an SG is far narrower and much more consistent for the whole length of the neck. The narrow body is very comfortable too, I have found. In my experience, SGs also have a longer sustain than Les Pauls and Stratocasters. I haven't playing any other kind of electric guitar except this rather sleek Flying V, which was an absolute joy to play. Awkward if you're sitting down, but it had a thin, narrow neck, amazing sustain, sounded really beautiful. There wasn't a single fret I couldn't reach quickly and comfortably.
But like DK said, and like KimJong will have photographic evidence posted before long, SGs are rather fragile. If you're going to play on stage with other people who jump a lot, you might want to step forward some.
If you picked up your habits by playing banjo, you'd probably be the least comfortable with a Les Paul. Take what you learn from this thread, and try out different types of guitar. Try out different string gauges too, after you have bought the guitar.
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I think it should be asked whether you are interested in distorted or clean tones more.
Also, I have played the fiddle for about 9 years and won a bunch of contests so if you have questions about the instrument or old-time or texas/contest style, I'm your guy.
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Telecasters have really sweet necks and if you get the Telecaster Custom it has a humbucker at the neck and a single coil at the back so you get the best of both worlds and it looks damned sweet.
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You do realize that you can change the action on a guitar, right.
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that if anyone wants to buy me an Epiphone "Emily Strange" SG guitar I will write a song about them.
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I figure this is the best place to chime in about my current situation, as I could use some input.
I've been a sax player for nearly 14 years, and played in a classical style for about 80% of it. I was classically trained and didn't do much with the jazz and blues style that I came to love. In fact, lack of improvisational training is what killed my career in music, and I dont' want to go down the same road twice.
Fact is that I'm just now learning to play the guitar... I've got a Schecter Hellraiser C1 that I recently picked up, and things are progressing. However, it feels far too similar to when I started with the sax - I'm eating up methods books and slowly working my way down the strings. Learning open majors, minors, a little with barres, and power chords VERY slowly.
I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here - I supopse I'm just looking for self-teaching advice. Am I going about this the right way? I eventually want to be playing rock and rock derivative styles... does anyone have any better ways to teach myself to suggest, or should I just keep pounding away at thse methods books. OH, and does anyone have any advice as to which books I should get my hands on?
Currently I'm working through the following, alternating back and forth between the books fairly regularly.
-ProLine's "Play Guitar Today"
-MelBay's "First Lessons" Songbook
-Alfred's "Learning to Play Guitar"
-Terry Burrows' "Total Electric Guitar Tutor"
Meh, I don't know how much more information I can/should give you... any feedback you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Try out a few different kinds of Teles. Les Pauls are nice, but there's something about a Tele with some kind of tweed amp that could be really nice if you're using it the way you would a banjo.
Really the most important thing if you're just starting is comfort in it. You can mess with a lot as long as you're not just tubing it, so work at finding something that feels nice in your hands. It's like picking out a camera. Or a knife.
(^The three things I would blow a buttload of money on, coincidentally.)
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If you're just starting and don't have rich parents or a trust fund, you can pick up a generic Epiphone Gibson at a pawn shop for $80 or so, which is a good deal and sound like it meets your needs.
(http://b6.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00913/65/63/913353656_l.jpg)
Sorry you can't see the headstock, but I can't find a better picture of it.
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Yup. Teles can be used for aaaaanything.
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I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here - I supopse I'm just looking for self-teaching advice. Am I going about this the right way? I eventually want to be playing rock and rock derivative styles... does anyone have any better ways to teach myself to suggest, or should I just keep pounding away at thse methods books. OH, and does anyone have any advice as to which books I should get my hands on?
If you're interested in playing a specific style of music, I recommend teaching yourself to play songs in that specific style. This'll show you what to DO with those chords and scales the method books are giving you. I know my technical proficiency skyrocketed after I started teaching myself Opeth songs. There are good tablature resources all over the internet for virtually anything you can think of.
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As far as first guitars go, yeah. Teles are pretty great (unless you're specifically trying to learn Sabbath or, like, Metallica songs or something).
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Thanks Jeph, will do!
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I have a thing for Black Sabbath, and to the best of my knowledge, it's a dirty sound.
I must say, and when I went to guitar center today, I tried out a Flying V and SG. I have to say, once I got past the initial annoyance that I have with the V (It's the most awkward instrument shape I've ever seen... Like seriously, who came up with the pointiness and arrowy thing?), it plays fairly easily.
But, the SG is not only sexy-looking, it actually made me weak at the knees when I played the first half of Paranoid.
Hell, even Blackbird (Beatles, acoustic... a travesty to some, I know) sounded really metal and delicious on the SG, so a week and a half til my paycheck and I'm going to be doing a bit more shopping.
@ zero:
I'm pretty much a n00b when it comes to anything but playing songs... what's this about changing the action?
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Depending on the bridge model, most guitars allow you to change the action. Look for two knobs or screws where the bridge attaches to the body. Easiest to do when you're restringing, so next time you do, try fiddling with those knobs.
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With a Fender style bridge you can adjust the height of each individual string saddle. With Gibson-style tune-o-matics you can adjust the height of the bridge as a whole, using the two big screws holding the bridge. Some tremolo units let you do both.
Action adjustment is tricky business though, because in my experience 90% of playability issues arise not from bridge problems but trussrod problems. Always, ALWAYS make sure your neck is properly aligned before you adjust the bridge height or you may end up doing more harm than good. You'd be amazed how big a difference a 1/4 turn on the trussrod can make in terms of playability.
The best guide I've found to truss-rod adjustment is here (http://www.andersonguitars.com/questions.html") on the Tom Anderson website. It's simple, you don't need any complicated equipment, and it works really well.
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Also, if you don't really feel comfortable fiddling with that stuff yourself most music stores will setup your guitar (and adjust the action if desired) as well as re-string it for a fairly reasonable price.
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Yeah, I had a trussrod problem on my guitar, brought it to my friendly local music store to have it restringed, and for a very reasonable price, they restrung it, fixed the neck, and wiped it down.
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I must say though, learning to do this yourself is SO worth it. Why pay $50-100 every once in a while to have some dude set up your axe when you can do it better yourself for free? Just takes some effort learning to do so. Plus once you become an experienced player you'll often be unhappy with the way other people set up for you. Everyone has their own preferences and should learn to cater to themselves.
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I'll deeply consider all of this after I get the guitar, and now, for the most important part:
SG Standard:
Classic Cherry
or
Ebony?
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I'm pretty sure we can't answer that question for you as well as you could answer it for yourself.
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SGs have tiny necks and are pretty easy to play, plus you have tons of high fret access. Their necks are notoriously weak though - ask KimJongSick on this very forum. I've not played one in a while because they don't agree with me so I don't know about their sustain.
This isn't entirely accurate. The HEADSTOCK is what's notorious for breaking on Gibson instruments, not so much the neck. The SG's neck joint problems were fixed years ago, even if I still wouldn't entirely trust the joint due to the location of the neck pickup hole.
OP: I'd suggest just going to Guitar Center and playing shit until you find what you like. Personally, I'd definitely suggest a Telecaster. Simple controls, extreme versatility (the famed Nashville session guitarist Brett Mason has a vintage Tele, and all of Led Zeppelin I was recorded with a Telecaster) and they're none too expensive. Retrofit it with DiMarzio TwangKing pickups and we are talking about some SERIOUS GODDAMN TONE with none of that obnoxious single-coil buzz.
If you're looking for even more tonal versatility (and you happen to have something like $600), I'd suggest a Fender Deluxe Players' Stratocaster. It has the option for every possible pickup combination with 3 pickups (*fapfapfap*), has the classic Strat look, and if you retrofit it with locking tuners, you'll have complete tuning stability even if you divebomb the shit out of it with the whammy bar.
I've got a 2006 Squier Bullet, which is basically a thinner-bodied hardtail Strat. The model's been discontinued, but Musician's Friend still sells them with small Marshall amps as a starter package. Simple guitar, cheap, and plays like a dream. And Marshall amps tend to cancel out any single-coil hum, in my experience, so that's really a great option.
If you get a Gibson, get something with '59 humbucker pickups in it, because I am of the opinion that those are absolutely some of the best-sounding humbuckers available in the world. The Gibson warranty is a lifetime materials and labor warranty and their customer service people aren't douchebags and will actually answer the phone if you ever need to call.
Epiphone has some damn nice semi-hollows (I should stop masturbating over them) that are relatively inexpensive, and they also have a bunch of decent Gibson copies (they're licensed and owned by Gibson, blah blah). The Gibson versions of stuff are better sounding, looking and playing, but the playability and sound of Epi can be really good if you get lucky. For these guys, if you're buying an Epi-only model, you'll probably be okay, but if you're getting an Epi-made Gibson copy, play the guitar first before you buy it.
My experience is really limited to Gibson, Epi, Fender, and Squier electrics, but hopefully this info will get you somewhere. Best of luck to you, electrics are rad.
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I'll deeply consider all of this after I get the guitar, and now, for the most important part:
SG Standard:
Classic Cherry
or
Ebony?
Is this actually a question? Cherry.
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It might be (http://www.gibson.com/products/gibson/sg/iommisg.html)..
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Cherry is all you need. Why would you ever go with anything else?
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Cherry.
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I must say though, learning to do this yourself is SO worth it. Why pay $50-100 every once in a while to have some dude set up your axe when you can do it better yourself for free? Just takes some effort learning to do so. Plus once you become an experienced player you'll often be unhappy with the way other people set up for you. Everyone has their own preferences and should learn to cater to themselves.
Not sure what your music store is like, but at mine setup w/ strings on an electric is $30, and they do a great job with everything. While I agree that learning to do it yourself is important, it's really not that much of a hassle to take it in, and the guys at my local store know a hell of a lot more about guitars than I do, so I trust them.
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I must say though, learning to do this yourself is SO worth it. Why pay $50-100 every once in a while to have some dude set up your axe when you can do it better yourself for free? Just takes some effort learning to do so. Plus once you become an experienced player you'll often be unhappy with the way other people set up for you. Everyone has their own preferences and should learn to cater to themselves.
Yeah, it's really worth it to learn it yourself. I can't imagine paying someone to do my setup anymore. It's flipping easy once you learn.
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I'm pretty sure we can't answer that question for you as well as you could answer it for yourself.
Heh, I just wanted to see everyone's choice.
I'm actually going with Ebony.
Cherry (more closely related to "Prostitute Red") doesn't go with my skin tone >_<.
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You're going to hate yourself in the morning, and trade it in for Cherry.
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You will not get laid.
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Well of course not, but what does that have to with his shitty choice of guitar colour?
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Everything.
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Seriously. Aesthetics are about 46% of the reason I'll like a guitar. It's why I bought a Firebird. Looked great, sounded pretty good.
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Aesthetics were one of the main reasons I bought my Dano. It's purple.
Also it was dirt cheap and sounds pretty great.
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Honestly? Sure, the Cherry SG looks nice, but I think that guitars look best in black, though that H.R. Giger RG from Ibanez looks pretty cool too. And this is coming from someone who almost never wears black, so it isn't to go with my outfits or anything. Les Paul liked black guitars because apparently they make it look like you were playing faster, but to me, they just look simpler, drawing less attention to the guitar and more to the playing.
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I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here - I supopse I'm just looking for self-teaching advice.
Jeph made a great point earlier. I suppose the only input I can give you would be-
Learn your scales up the neck and practice 'em, like, every goddamn day. Scales are a key part in improv playing, which you said you rued your lack of while playing the sax.
Also look into music theory, if you haven't already. Different genres of music, especially when played on the guitar, are defined by variations on a theme. You take your major chords and change 'em slightly and you're into another realm of music (i.e. 7th chords in blues).
Hope that helps somewhat.
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Yep, learn the major scale over the 12 frets and KNOW it and you're set. I don't know how much theory you know, but if you don't know what I'm getting at, this covers every single chord you could ever want to make (no more learning each chord - just build em yourself), all the modes, pentatonics etc. And then I'd recommend looking at your intervals and what type of sound they give out, and then experiment with what you've learnt, as well as a few nice variations on the scales (harmonic etc).
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...to me, they just look simpler, drawing less attention to the guitar and more to the playing.
YOU WILL NOT GET LAID.
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Spluff, that advice is good once the player actually decides they like playing guitar enough to keep going. And besides, I'd recommend learning scales in this order anyways:
Pentatonic
Blues
Major (Ionian)
Minor (Aeolian)
If you want to learn past that, cool, but those are the absolute necessary ones.
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Blues scales are pretty much the pentatonic scales anyway. I would recommend learning the CAGE cord system, it's really handy for playing chords up and down the neck and switching between cords without having to move around the neck to much.
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Can anyone think of a song that has a nice, clear good ol' rock and roll shuffle?
I'm drawing so many blanks.
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Jimi Hendrix - Johnny B. Goode
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(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6522/neilyoungkt1.jpg)
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Jimi Hendrix - Johnny B. Goode
Seriously dude?
What about Chuck Berry?
Blues scales are pretty much the pentatonic scales anyway. I would recommend learning the CAGE cord system, it's really handy for playing chords up and down the neck and switching between cords without having to move around the neck to much.
These are both right, though I actually stumbled upon CAGED mostly by accident; I was playing the shapes along the neck way before I knew there was actually a name for what I was doing. You can also create some really great-sounding chords by using CAGED shapes but leaving the strings open rather than barring. For anyone who knows what I'm talking about, try making an F with a C shape and leaving it open to hear what I'm talking about. I love that chord.
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Chuck Berry is good, but i like the Hendrix version better, although i suppose it isn't nice and clear like PacoSees wanted. Also a good thing to learn would be fingerpicking, learn a couple of old blues songs or house of the rising sun or even some flamenco (i love playing flamenco), its really nice being able to play without a pick all the time.
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Good old-school rock and roll? Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry. Just stop trying anything else.
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Chuck Berry is good, but i like the Hendrix version better, although i suppose it isn't nice and clear like PacoSees wanted. Also a good thing to learn would be fingerpicking, learn a couple of old blues songs or house of the rising sun or even some flamenco (i love playing flamenco), its really nice being able to play without a pick all the time.
Chuck Berry was exactly what I was looking for. The truth is, I'm trying to get better with a pick since I've been fingerpicking on the banjo for about three years.
@KimJong...
You's a cynical fool ain't ya?
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Dude, you don't have to use a pick to rock out.
See: Wax Mannequin.
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Or the guitar playing on Superwolf.
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...to me, they just look simpler, drawing less attention to the guitar and more to the playing.
YOU WILL NOT GET LAID.
Have fun with your syphilis. I am not touching any of those groupies. Besides, where would music be if it wasn't for sexual frustration?
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Still in the 1980s.
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Hmm... Well, some of the music in the 1980s was awesome, but so is some of the stuff more recently.
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Dude, you don't have to use a pick to rock out.
See: Wax Mannequin.
See also: MARK KNOPFLER
Hmm... Well, some of the music in the 1980s was awesome, but so is some of the stuff more recently.
I'm not even gonna touch this.
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Hmm... Well, some of the music in the 1980s was awesome, but so is some of the stuff more recently.
I'm not even gonna Can't touch this.
Fixed.
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Who was talking about M.C. Hammer? Some of the best metal was made in the 1980s. Some of the worst fashions as well, but that is beside the point.
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The best guitarists, too - you've got Vai, Satch, Becker, Malmsteen, Friedman, Gilbert. I think due to prominence of bad pop music in the 80s, guitarists were forced to stay home and practice.
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I recognize all those names but becker and gilbert, but I only regularly listen to Friedman. I need to find Dragon's Kiss, I only have music for speeding right now.
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Jason Becker used to play in Cacophony with Marty Friedman, and replaced Steve Vai in David Lee Roth's band before being diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease at the age of 20 - he still composes music via assistance from machines. Paul Gilbert played in Racer X, and then later Mr. Big. Both were considered great shredders (now we just sit and wait for comments about playing with feeling and Dave Gilmour).
I've only got a few of their albums, mainly because despite it being impressive (and in some cases, freakin' awesome) the whole style isn't something I could listen to all day.
[EDIT - But this is ridiculously off topic. lol. I'd put up a funneh macro about off topic, but I recently reformatted. ]
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Vai is a pretentious assfuck (I don't care who I offend with that statement, I will stand by it until death).
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Yeah, I'm not a Vai fan at all. I've got a soft spot for Paul Gilbert though; he can shred like crazy and seems to recognize when he's being ridiculous, which is more than I can say for Vai. I can't imagine listening to shred for more than 5 minutes at a time though, really.
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Yeah, I'm not a Vai fan at all. I've got a soft spot for Paul Gilbert though; he can shred like crazy and seems to recognize when he's being ridiculous, which is more than I can say for Vai. I can't imagine listening to shred for more than 5 minutes at a time though, really.
Vai very rarely shreds on his albums.
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Good for him; I was talking about Paul Gilbert. Besides, I'm not necessarily talking about albums, per se, I'm just talking about the artists you brought up and what they're renowned for in general: Shredding. I appreciate the technique involved and all, but every time I see a clip of those guys, they're standing there making metal faces and playing scales at mach 3, which is something I really only have so much time for. They're good guitarists, but most of their music is just not what I'm into.