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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Uber Ritter on 26 Jan 2008, 22:25
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The Thread wherein we clueless masses ask for the musical cognoscendi to explain what makes a famous/legendary* band that we haven't gotten into so amazing.
Maybe someone has already done this, but I feel like it would be hard to search for.
I'll start. What's the deal with Pavement? I listened to Terror Twilight and liked it, but it didn't seem, I dunno, amazing to me, and I don't remember being partiularly impressed by Slanted and Enchanted or their other stuff.
*groundbreaking/noteworthy/epochal/whatever...any band that people shit themselves over, basically
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What's the deal with the Beatles?
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De_El, that is a very easy to answer one. Their music is very cheerful, with exceptions, of course, but even their song about a murderer is cheerful, and the cheerful sound transfers senseless happiness to the listener.
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So this is a band to try and help people "get it"?
Hrm, I dunno how well this will work.
Pavement's deal were that they played catchy pop songs with a lo-fi "slacker" aesthetic that said, "We don't care about the music industry." Coupled with genuine instrumental talent, you essentially had a band writing good songs and albums with little or no regard for mainstream success in a time when alternative music was becoming big on MTV. Pavement stood out as the antithesis of that, along with bands like Guided By Voices. If you listen to the mix there's generally a lot going on behind it but it's buried within squalls of feedback.
Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain is actually probably my favourite Pavement album, partially because they got a drummer who could keep decent time.
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So what's the deal with Slint?
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Hitler pushes a button and their name appears. I don't see what's so tough about that one.
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Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain is actually probably my favourite Pavement album, partially because they got a drummer who could keep decent time.
You do know that Malkmus actually played most of the drums on that album, right?
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The Thread wherein we clueless masses ask for the musical cognoscendi to explain what makes a famous/legendary* band that we haven't gotten into so amazing.
Maybe someone has already done this, but I feel like it would be hard to search for.
I'll start. What's the deal with Pavement? I listened to Terror Twilight and liked it, but it didn't seem, I dunno, amazing to me, and I don't remember being partiularly impressed by Slanted and Enchanted or their other stuff.
*groundbreaking/noteworthy/epochal/whatever...any band that people shit themselves over, basically
pavement was one of the big leading "pied pipers" of indie music, similar to what the beatles were for the sixties, at the time pavement was goin around doin their thing there wasn't alot of "indie" out there, but now that kind of scene is everywhere and pavement was one of the reasons
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You do know that Malkmus actually played most of the drums on that album, right?
I just spent fifteen minutes on Google and another five scouring the liner notes for the deluxe reissue and I can't find evidence of this anywhere. As far as I can tell it's Steve West, with the exception of Kannenberg on "Fillmore Jive," and that's according to Malkmus himself.
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What's the deal with Deerhoof?
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They're your friends!
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My friends have a vocalist with really annoying voice, then.
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Your friends are awesome.
IMHO, the "deal" with your friends is basically that they are one of the few bands right now that like blurring the lines between avant-garde and catchy pop music and actually end up with an enjoyable result.
They also seem to have an amazingly good drummer.
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My friends have a vocalist with really annoying voice, then.
Man that's just racist.
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My friends have a vocalist with really annoying voice, then.
Man that's just racist.
....?!
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What's the deal with -Band X-? I figure they were in the right place at the right time to achieve the degree of success that they did!
The Beatles got popular because everybody wanted to nail them.
Pavement got popular because everybody wanted to nail Stephen Malkmus.
Deerhoof are kinda popular because lots of western males really want to nail...
Musical merit does not factor into this in the slightest. The only way a band can achieve success is if people want to sleep with them.
So, the more popular the band, the more people want to sleep with them!
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So does that work in the reverse as well? Say there is someone that is totally hot and everyone wants to get in their pants, would any band they start immediately become successful? If so I know a few people that should start a band and let me join it.
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There really is no argument against that.
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William Shatner made some coin as a recording artist.
Case and point.
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What's the deal with -Band X-? I figure they were in the right place at the right time to achieve the degree of success that they did!
The Beatles got popular because everybody wanted to nail them.
Pavement got popular because everybody wanted to nail Stephen Malkmus.
Deerhoof are kinda popular because lots of western males really want to nail...
Musical merit does not factor into this in the slightest. The only way a band can achieve success is if people want to sleep with them.
So, the more popular the band, the more people want to sleep with them!
Motorhead.
What is the deal with Slayer? I know they aren't the same kind of music as Pavement or Deerhoof, but there has to be enough people here that have at least heard them to tell me this. I haven't heard anything from them that is anything more than mediocre, aside from the track Raining blood.
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Guys, just because YOU wouldn't sleep with the Shatner or Lemmy does NOT mean that nobody thinks about it day and night. Jeeze. my logic is FLAWLESS.
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Guys, just because YOU wouldn't sleep with the Shatner or Lemmy does NOT mean that nobody thinks about it day and night. Jeeze. my logic is FLAWLESS.
So the fact that someone somewhere is attracted to someone in a band means that they are successful? Now... lets see, I believe according to the internet fetish whatchamacallit, that means that there is someone that finds any given person attractive, so all musucians would become amazingly successful.
Your logic could account for one or two fans (depending on if having a guitar still does the whole magic makeover thing, I don't watch myself in a mirror while I play), but not the amount that popular bands have.
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Many people regard Slayer's first three albums (Show No Mercy, Hell Awaits, and Reign in Blood) as classics amongst their genre. Also, Slayer did influence and help to create thrash metal, death metal and black metal, and they pretty much helped invent and popularize the extreme metal riffing style. Of course, everything since South of Heaven has been mediocre.
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So what is the deal with Kylie Minogue?
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What is the deal with Slayer? I know they aren't the same kind of music as Pavement or Deerhoof, but there has to be enough people here that have at least heard them to tell me this. I haven't heard anything from them that is anything more than mediocre, aside from the track Raining blood.
That basically is the deal with Slayer. Apart from Raining Blood and Angel Of Death, their entire career is basically just a bunch of interchangeable and essentially identical tracks to get drunk and bang your head to. Except Mandatory Suicide, which you can dance the Macarena to.
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So what is the deal with Kylie Minogue?
Put her videos on mute. Now you know why.
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So what is the deal with Kylie Minogue?
She's pretty hot for someone as old as my mom.
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I must admit, that is an amazing ass.
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I just spent fifteen minutes on Google and another five scouring the liner notes for the deluxe reissue and I can't find evidence of this anywhere. As far as I can tell it's Steve West, with the exception of Kannenberg on "Fillmore Jive," and that's according to Malkmus himself.
Hmm. I'm nearly positive that 12 or so years ago I read a bio of the band which talked about how West was so new at the time of recording CRCR that Malkmus often got frustrated with his inability to do what he wanted him to, and so Malkmus would just record the drum track himself. Hence the song "Westy Can't Drum".
I also take exception to your prior implication that Gary Young was not a good drummer. Shenanigans aside, he actually was technically really talented.
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Many people regard Slayer's first three albums (Show No Mercy, Hell Awaits, and Reign in Blood) as classics amongst their genre. Also, Slayer did influence and help to create thrash metal, death metal and black metal, and they pretty much helped invent and popularize the extreme metal riffing style. Of course, everything since South of Heaven has been mediocre.
Ah, I see. I don't listen to death metal or black metal (with the exception of Holy Blood), and thrash-wise, they didn't do anything noteworthy, Exodus is better. Of course, I have not heard much from them, so I could just be missing out.
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I agree with you there...I would take Kreator, Destruction or Exodus over Slayer any day. But thats pretty much the opinions of thier fans.
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Never listened to Kreator or Destruction, aside from... I think "Love us or hate us", something like that, because I heard that the opening riff was uncannily similar to the opening riff on Overkill's Elimination. I couldn't get past the vocals, I feel bad about that, it isn't their fault they are German.
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Well, I don't really listen to that much thrash. :-)
Can anyone tell me what the big deal is with Yngwie Malmsteen?
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He slays dragons.
I was looking for a link to that Onion article "Yngwie Malmsteen officially changes middle name to "Fucking"" but it's not out there :(
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I also take exception to your prior implication that Gary Young was not a good drummer. Shenanigans aside, he actually was technically really talented.
Yeah, it's true.
Do you have any of the reissues? They're all pretty great, partially just because of how incredibly comprehensive they are, but Crooked Rain is especially worth it just because the second disc starts with early demos of eight of the album's tracks that feature Young on drums.
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He slays dragons? I think some fey power metal bands will have few issues about that...
Whats the deal with fey power metal bands?
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Yes, I do kind of wish Young had been able to stick around for Crooked Rain, as I think the drumming on that album is a little "same-y" for me. It sounds like someone who has been playing drums for about a month and can play in time but has no concept of flow or looseness.
Still my favorite Pavement album and one of my top 10 of the 90s, mind you.
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Can anyone tell me what the big deal is with Yngwie Malmsteen?
He can play really fast. I guess.
As an aside, Kreator is awesome live.
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Is that the only good thing? He can play really fast?
Honestly, if you took that away his music would be incredibly boring.
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And what is the deal with airline food?
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^ :-D
Honestly, if you took that away his music would be incredibly boring.
are you suggesting that it isn't if you don't take it away because honestly I'm not seeing it
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And what is the deal with airline food?
I do not understand why people don't like airline food.
@Amok: Good point. Maybe I meant, even more incredibly boring.
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So I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but...
(http://www.damnimcute.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/seinfeld.jpg)
Radiohead.
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Radiohead got famous for writing downbeat but very catchy rock songs. They then went on to make sure that every album was different enough from their last that they would be seen to be progressing but also similar enough in its approach that their fans would not be disappointed by something totally unfamiliar. They are a massive stadium rock band who have a critical reputation good enough to mean nobody would feel embarrassed about liking something with such mass appeal, as is sometimes the case for some individuals. They appear not to be dicks in interviews which also helps, one of them even volunteers for the Samaritans (I have no idea why I know) which makes him sound like a pretty nice guy. Their liberal politics appear well-meaning and genuine but also not very radical so are unlikely to upset many people.
I think that's the thing with Radiohead, there's nothing there to put people off and they write songs with a mass appeal, often very anthemic. Even people like me who don't really care for their music usually don't dislike them as such. My mum had Amnesiac and when she stuck it on it would just fade into the background, inoffensively.
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You see, I think the thing about Radiohead is that you have to get into them at a certain age. There is a critical period for Radiohead like there is for language and the like. If you miss you're time, the odds are against you.
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I'll bite. What's the deal with of Montreal? I've tried listening to them, I really have, but there must be something I just don't get.
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Plenty of people, including myself, don't like Of Montreal. I'd hardly say they're a sacred enough cow for this thread.
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Okay lemme give this thread a try.
Guys whats the deal with the indie rock? I mean, since this is a forum of a webcomic that used to have indie rock references I'm just gonna assume that all of you listen to indie rock. That's an intelligent assumption, right?
(http://www.damnimcute.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/seinfeld.jpg)
Did I do it right?
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What's the deal with Spoon? I've given them a go and I found them really dull, and then I gave them another go because I thought I must be missing something, and I still found them really dull. Why do people like them so much?
(http://www.damnimcute.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/seinfeld.jpg)
Notwithstanding the gimmicky but de rigeur Seinfeld picture, this is a serious question. I am genuinely mystified.
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Seriously, Vampire Weekend.
What the fuck, man. Vampire Weekend.
Pitchfork gave the album an 8.8 today.
Jesus Christ, people.
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What's the deal with Spoon? I've given them a go and I found them really dull, and then I gave them another go because I thought I must be missing something, and I still found them really dull. Why do people like them so much?
It's pertinent to ask which albums you've given a listen to.
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I haven't listened to any particular albums, only songs. We have a music-video programme here called Rage which airs in the wee small hours, and every Friday night they get a touring band to guest-programme it. After all the band's chosen videos are played, then the band's own videos are played, so I saw a lot of their songs that way. That would have been a couple of years ago. Then yesterday at the Big Day Out, a music festival, I saw them play a few songs. Not being very familiar with the band I don't know what any of the songs were called or from what album(s) they came, but I was not impressed by any of them.
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I really don't 'get' either Ween or MIA.
If anyone can shed some light...
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Ween are technically very talented musicians who fuck around with genre conventions in ways that are sometimes amusing and sometimes unexpectedly poignant but are generally always well-done. Their last few albums have been significantly less enjoyable to me than their first five or so, however.
Godweensatan is seriously a masterpiece.
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I still can't get past the first song on that album. White Pepper is really good and easy to get into, though.
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I haven't listened to any particular albums, only songs. We have a music-video programme here called Rage which airs in the wee small hours, and every Friday night they get a touring band to guest-programme it.
Try giving Gimme Fiction a listen in its entirety.
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I still can't get past the first song on that album. White Pepper is really good and easy to get into, though.
Well, different strokes and all that. I don't like White Pepper much and love "You Fucked Up".
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What the fuck, man. Vampire Weekend.
I really like what I've heard from them. I like the way their sound feels like it draws from different places to a lot of other band I'm hearing. I like the way they sound like they're having fun. Mostly I think I just like fun, catchy pop songs.
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I like fun, catchy pop songs too (I love the Pipettes) but seriously, man. Vampire Weekend don't even sound like they're trying.
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What's the deal with The Blood Brothers? Terrible motherfucker of a band, and yet Guy Picciotto produced their last album.
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What the fuck, man. Vampire Weekend.
Pitchfork gave the album an 8.8 today.
Clell Tickle probably had something to do with it.\
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I love The Mollusk too much to make anything remotely resembling an unbiased defense of Ween. Some of the songs on that one are like if someone took prog and removed all the pretension and suck. Plus, it's pretty concise for a Ween album. Also, Ocean Man makes me inexplicably happy in the most uncomplicated way possible, which counts for a lot.
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I'll say that The Mollusk is the Ween album I've listened to the least out of everything up to and including it, but that I do recall loving it the last time I had a copy (which was in the neighborhood of 10 years ago).
Still, there's just something about all the albums before that that are just timelessly awesome. I think The Mollusk can be seen as the point at which Ween began to at least flirt with the idea of being a little bit serious, though it's nowhere near as straightforward as, say, Quebec (my least favourite of theirs).
I do really love the Friends EP in all its gay glory.
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Radiohead got famous for writing downbeat but very catchy rock songs. They then went on to make sure that every album was different enough from their last that they would be seen to be progressing but also similar enough in its approach that their fans would not be disappointed by something totally unfamiliar. They are a massive stadium rock band who have a critical reputation good enough to mean nobody would feel embarrassed about liking something with such mass appeal, as is sometimes the case for some individuals. They appear not to be dicks in interviews which also helps, one of them even volunteers for the Samaritans (I have no idea why I know) which makes him sound like a pretty nice guy. Their liberal politics appear well-meaning and genuine but also not very radical so are unlikely to upset many people.
I think that's the thing with Radiohead, there's nothing there to put people off and they write songs with a mass appeal, often very anthemic. Even people like me who don't really care for their music usually don't dislike them as such. My mum had Amnesiac and when she stuck it on it would just fade into the background, inoffensively.
So Kid A and Amnesiac were just style variations on Karma Police? I think not.
Btw. Dean Ween just might be the most underappreciated talented guitarist out there.
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No, but they didn't sound to me like records I was completely surprised that the band who had written Karma Police would make. The Argument isn't just a variation on Repeater but it makes sense to me that the band that wrote one eventually ended up making the other, it's a progression.
What's the deal with The Blood Brothers? Terrible motherfucker of a band, and yet Guy Picciotto produced their last album.
They started out playing fairly straightforward hardcore and then added more and more different influences to their sound until there wasn't much hardcore left in it. I think it makes sense that Guy Picciotto would have an interest in a band like that. The last couple of albums might have been pretty uninteresting but Burn, Piano Island, Burn was fantastic, taking that GSL/31g kind of approach to hardcore and then making a catchy pop record out of it. March On Electric Children (released, unsurprisingly, by 31g) was a really great record as well.
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No, but they didn't sound to me like records I was completely surprised that the band who had written Karma Police would make. The Argument isn't just a variation on Repeater but it makes sense to me that the band that wrote one eventually ended up making the other, it's a progression.
Well yeah, but Fugazi's progression isn't nearly as recognizable as Radiohead's.
I think it's tough to say anything about it now about 10 years later.
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Whats the deal with Battles?
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What's the deal with John Stanier?
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Really? I was always under the impression that John Bonham visited Stanier in a dream and anointed Stanier his successor.
The deal with Battles is that they make incredibly weird and off-the-wall music that somehow is still incredibly danceable. (+John Stanier)
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Dammit tommy, you were supposed to answer "He's the drummer for Battles". Then I'd ask "What's the deal with Battles?" and you'd reply "John Stanier is the drummer for Battles", and I'd ask "What's the deal with John Stanier?", and so forth, and thus we'd cripple the thread with an horrific but momentarily hilarious feed-back loop.
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I was looking for a link to that Onion article "Yngwie Malmsteen officially changes middle name to "Fucking"" but it's not out there :(
Bottom of the page. (http://www.theonion.com/content/index/3634)
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Still, there's just something about all the albums before that that are just timelessly awesome. I think The Mollusk can be seen as the point at which Ween began to at least flirt with the idea of being a little bit serious, though it's nowhere near as straightforward as, say, Quebec (my least favourite of theirs).
Yeah, I can get behind all of those sentiments. I'll put it this way: If I'm listening to Ween at home on my PC or on my ancient iriver I end up listening to a grab bag patched together from some of the earlier albums you're mentioning. But a decade ago (Good god, is it that long now?!) when I was still dragging around a discman and a fistfull of cds everywhere it was The Mollusk that made the cut. Relative to their other albums it's just more self-contained, and it feels more complete to me whereas their other albums (especially the first two) are sprawling and held together mostly by the homebrewed aesthetic and sheer balls to the wall silliness. It's great stuff, but I don't get in the mood for The Pod like I do for The Mollusk.
Wait, shit, did I blow a whole paragraph just to basically say "I find it more accessible"?
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I was looking for a link to that Onion article "Yngwie Malmsteen officially changes middle name to "Fucking"" but it's not out there :(
Bottom of the page. (http://www.theonion.com/content/index/3634)
It links to a picture and more links, no text.
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I'll bite on a few of these.
Of Montreal: Not my favorite band, but the attraction there is sort of a fun glam thing. They're fun, extravagant, upbeat, outlandish. I think too much of them gets obnoxious, and some of their songs are mediocre, but overall I think they're pretty fun and dancey, and the lyrics are amusingly surreal sometimes. If you haven't heard it, check out The Party's Crashing Us - that's the first song I ever heard by them, and one of my favorites. It's a pretty good litmus for whether you'll ever like them or not.
Pavement: People have mostly said why they're so well known/highly regarded, I'll say my own experience getting into them, since I didn't "get it" at first either. The first time I checked them out I was unimpressed (listened to the first few tracks of Slanted and Enchanted then put it back). I gave them another shot a couple years later and listened to Terror Twilight and liked it better, but I wasn't immediately sold. Then they grew on me like crazy. Every time I listen to them I notice another line or riff that I really like, and my favorite song changes. So for me getting into them was really slow and took a lot of repeats, but now they're one of my favorite bands.
I also agree with Johnny C on what basically makes them good, and Crooked Rain is also my favorite.
Spoon: Definitely check out Gimme Fiction. Amazing album. They're an incredibly talented band. Some of their songs can come off boring at first, they're mostly pretty mellow, but give GF a good listen. I love every song on it.
I don't get the Blood Brothers either. I was hearing about them a lot a few years back, then when I listened to them I felt like my ears were going to bleed. And I LIKE some hardcore and punk.
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Is Gimme Fiction in the Mediafire thread somewhere? Because I'm not gonna shell out good money just on spec, when my every experience with the band has been negative.
For the record, I don't mind mellow music, just dull music.
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Is Gimme Fiction in the Mediafire thread somewhere? Because I'm not gonna shell out good money just on spec, when my every experience with the band has been negative.
For the record, I don't mind mellow music, just dull music.
Just did a search, I don't think it is. I'll upload it and post there.
Edit: Done! Check it out.
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Man, I totally didn't think of the Seinfeld thing. And now it's been done to death, probably. Oh well.
So what's the deal with the Decembrists? I liked the second track on The Crane Wife because it reminded me of an indie-rock Yes, but generally the Decembrists have consistently failed to blow me away.
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The Decemberists are the band for people who are too cool for Death Cab For Cutie but not cool enough for Arcade Fire.
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mariner's revenge song
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The Decembrists were a Russian revolutionary group, which is pretty cool, but I suspect you meant the Decemberists. Probably I have already caused you to ignore anything I'll say by being a pedantic ass, but regardless: The Decemberists write excellent, or at least highly regarded, lyrics and set them to surprisingly catchy melodies. Much is made of their tendency to use big words, which sort of misses the point: that they tell stories well, often conveying a lot of background or emotional heft with a fairly concise lyric. They put on an absolutely incredible and fun live show. They play many, many instruments, but they don't overuse them or show off; instead, they use them sparingly and, usually, effectively to augment what might otherwise be a conventionally arranged song. If you liked "The Island" because it was more proggy, The Decemberists may not be for you; they are first and foremost a verse-verse-chorus-verse pop band, but hopefully I've given some kind of idea why other people like them.
Re Spoon: Am I totally off base in thinking Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga is way better than Gimme Fiction? Everyone's creaming their pants in here over the latter, but I owned it for months and didn't give a shit about Spoon until I picked up Ga^5.
And re Pavement: Advice regarding a second album for someone who can't get into Slanted and Enchanted, please?
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Disliking Slanted and Enchanted really doesn't have much effect on whether you will like their other albums. Crooked Rain Crooked Rain is a far more pop affair with some genuine rock epic playing.
Some may consider it heresy, but I find Slanted and Enchanted to be mostly boring and after a few years it gets a bit old.
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Am I totally off base in thinking Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga is way better than Gimme Fiction?
Hells no.
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Now I personally adore the new Silver Mt. Zion- hence the Effrim avator- but one of my friends who's also a fan of their music gave every aspect of the new album a ten, except the vocls which he gave a zero. I don't know how to explain to him why they are great vocals and make it such a powerful album, any help?
Also, Harry, I too had alot of trouble getting into Spoon, but one day it clicked that it's catchy, fun and yet original music which is also layered and full of interesting ideas. I'm seeing them tomorrow night actually.
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How are the vocals on the new Silver Mt. Zion any different from the vocals on their last two albums, except for being more forceful and less whiny?
That is truly confusing.
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Disliking Slanted and Enchanted really doesn't have much effect on whether you will like their other albums. Crooked Rain Crooked Rain is a far more pop affair with some genuine rock epic playing.
Some may consider it heresy, but I find Slanted and Enchanted to be mostly boring and after a few years it gets a bit old.
trigger cut/wounded kite at :17 is the reason why i like slanted and enchanted.
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How are the vocals on the new Silver Mt. Zion any different from the vocals on their last two albums, except for being more forceful and less whiny?
That is truly confusing.
Yeah I know, but he just hates them here. I think he may also only be familiar with their instrumental stuff.
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I am really glad this forum has not yet had the "OMG Silver Mt. Zion sold out by letting 20 seconds of a song be used in a commercial for LOST Efrim is such a hypocrite" explosion I've seen on other boards.
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I had a conversation about this with my drummer after practice tonight - licensing in general, I mean. My feelings are that my opinion of a band is hardly ever lowered if they license out a song, and that if my opinion of the band were to be lowered it would be because they had their song in a Wal-Mart commercial. However, I feel like I respect a band more if they say, "No, but I can write you a song for your ad." That way the song isn't cheapened and the artist basically just gets to make a buck on commission more than anything else.
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Henry Rollins had a blog post about licensing awhile back. Can't seem to find it through a lazy google search, but his argument was roughly this,
A. Iggy Pop licensed "Lust For Life" out to that cruiseline.
B. "Lust For Life" is an awesome song.
C. Iggy Pop got money for this licensing.
______
dot dot dot Who the fuck cares about licensing.
The guy from Of Montreal had a big huge defensive rant about licensing posted in... Pitchfork, I think? A few months ago. He sounded totally guilty.
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See, if I was in a major label band and had the opportunity to make money off licensing, I'd pass on the feeling guilty and acting defensive shit and skip to the part where I show up on TRL and get booed after giving my fans the finger and ranting about how nobody seems to mind hearing the song for free when they're downloading it off teh internets.
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Yeah, licensing isn't that big a deal to me. I can see the point about Wal-mart, I might take issue if it was a company I really have no respect for. But in general, why not? When those Iggy Pop cruise line commercials were on, I'd always get up and dance, I loved it. And if I ever hear a lesser known band in advertisements, I get excited for them because that means they're getting more recognition and basically paid promotion.
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Yeah... I think I would probably go for the policy that I would only license for products/companies that I liked.
And what was the title of the Iggy pop song? I think I might remember that, but I can't remember the lyrics to look it up.
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A Pack of Wolves: Thanks for your commentary on The Blood Brothers. Often times when trying to get into their music, the music itself is pretty good- it's just the vocals that really, really, fuck it up for me. Like, covering a Ferrero Rocher in shit bad. But that's just me.
Pavement advice: For a period of time, I refused to listen to the rest of Slanted/Enchanted based solely on Summer Babe. I hated the hell out of that song. Now, I don't mind it, and the album proper has its moments, but I have yet to actually listen to it the whole way.
As far as second albums, I would second Crooked Rain Crooked Rain, but if you're feeling adventurous, you could try out their inscrutablexperimental chock-full of songs Wowee Zowee, or the polished pop of Brighten the Corners. As far as actual recommendable songs go, Wowee Zowee has Grounded, Rattled By The Rush, Grave Architecture, and Blackout (among others), while BtC has Stereo, Shady Lane, Embassy Row, and Starlings of the Slipstream- arguably Pavement's best pop or rock songs.
To continue the vicious cycle, What's the deal with Tapes 'n Tapes? I bought this album expecting it to be really good, and it came out as completely unimpressive. Was it all Clell Tickle's marketing finesse that got this band where it went, or is there something that I'm missing? In fact, let's do a twofer- What's the deal with Clap Your Hands Say Yeah?
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I personally would not license a song to advertise a product or brand. Now, I'd be happy to write you a new one, but I would not license an existing song. There's an alternative that won't cheapen my work.
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Do you really think that using literally 20 instrumental seconds of a song in a trailer for a season of a TV show counts as "advertising a product"? I highly doubt that anybody decided "Hey, those 20 seconds of music are so cool, I think I'll watch that show now!" That counts more as "soundtrack" than "advertising" in my book.
And I think it's a great thing that, for example, Mogwai have let so many of their songs be used in so many soundtracks. Better them than some shitty band, right?
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See, I am totally fine with what you're saying Johnny C, since that's your work and your decision. Now, if you were to go completely unhinged and shit all over another talented and otherwise forthright artist using that freedom, that's when I'd start calling it bullshit.
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And I think it's a great thing that, for example, Mogwai have let so many of their songs be used in so many soundtracks. Better them than some shitty band, right?
A film or TV soundtrack is a different thing from selling Motorola phones or a Celica.
Once again, I don't think any less of bands that do this. I personally wouldn't.
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What's the deal with free jazz?
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Free Jazz emerged as kind of a reaction to all of the commercialization that was occurring in the Jazz scene of the 1950s. People got kind of sick of dealing with all of the generic Jazz crap out there (like many groups are doing with rock more recently) and created a style of music that doesn't have as many rules and doesn't have to be bludgeoned down into the least common denomination. They, through eliminating some of the conventions of the music, "freed" it, and restored the sense of innovation in the Jazz scene of the 1950s.
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in response to the title of this discussion
"whats the deal with AIR LINE FOOD!?"
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What's the deal with free jazz?
It is a socially acceptable way to masturbate in public.
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Free Jazz emerged as kind of a reaction to all of the commercialization that was occurring in the Jazz scene of the 1950s. People got kind of sick of dealing with all of the generic Jazz crap out there (like many groups are doing with rock more recently) and created a style of music that doesn't have as many rules and doesn't have to be bludgeoned down into the least common denomination. They, through eliminating some of the conventions of the music, "freed" it, and restored the sense of innovation in the Jazz scene of the 1950s.
Not really, no. Free Jazz is simply a step forward, musically. Actually, a lot of musicians dislike the term Free Jazz. Free Jazz (I like the term Avant Grade Jazz) was more a reaction to racism and, for a lot of Free Jazz musicians, a chance to return to their african music roots.
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Can someone explain this rap music to me? I don't get it.
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Not really, no. Free Jazz is simply a step forward, musically. Actually, a lot of musicians dislike the term Free Jazz. Free Jazz (I like the term Avant Grade Jazz) was more a reaction to racism and, for a lot of Free Jazz musicians, a chance to return to their african music roots.
I guess I'm coming from the perspective of having just been introduced to free jazz by Peter Brotzmann's "Machine Gun." I just don't understand it at all.
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Alright so I have a serious one, unlike my last post here.
(http://www.damnimcute.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/seinfeld.jpg)
Stoner metal?
I really wanna like this genre, but every time I listen to it, its just kind of ehhhhhhhh. Am I just not smoking enough weed?
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Probably not. What's the deal with the knife?
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What kind of "stoner metal" are you talking about? Stuff like Sleep or stuff like Bardo Pond? Stuff like Hawkwind or stuff like Dead Meadow?
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Probably not. What's the deal with the knife?
They make interesting and decidedly original electronic music with catchy synth lines and vocal hooks. And you can dance to it and sing along. Also, they have a sense of humour, and a wonderfully fuck you! kind of attitude towards the media and music industry.
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Sounds like exactly the kind of act I'd hate. But I like a lot of similar acts.
What's the deal with The Tea Party?
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The guy from Of Montreal had a big huge defensive rant about licensing posted in... Pitchfork, I think? A few months ago. He sounded totally guilty.
It was actually a very well written argument (http://stereogum.com/archives/commercial-appeal/of-montreal-art-brut-do-tmobile_007208.html) that made some great points.
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What kind of "stoner metal" are you talking about? Stuff like Sleep or stuff like Bardo Pond? Stuff like Hawkwind or stuff like Dead Meadow?
I'm talking the stuff like Sleep.
Sorry for not being specific enough.
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Bardo Pond and Hawkwind are fucking A.
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The guy from Of Montreal had a big huge defensive rant about licensing posted in... Pitchfork, I think? A few months ago. He sounded totally guilty.
It was actually a very well written argument (http://stereogum.com/archives/commercial-appeal/of-montreal-art-brut-do-tmobile_007208.html) that made some great points.
Oh, I agree with the gist of his arguments, I just think they could've been conveyed in a less petulant manner. His apparent total exasperation with the idea of selling out doesn't help his point. But that might just be in response to petulant people who've disagreed with him, or it might just be his writing style.
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The deal with stoner metal, specifically Sleep and their ilk, is that a huge portion of the music is the volume and fuzz/distortion level. If you're not already grabbed by the tone, the other elements of the music (namely huge slow riffs and whatever vocalist is in the band you're listening to) are probably not going to draw you in too much. Generally, the way stoner metal songs are written plays directly off of the guitar tone that's being used, instead of vice versa ... so if you can't get into the bass-heavy fuzziness, there isn't much you're likely to find in the music.
My advice is to listen to any of Om's albums or any of Electric Wizard's albums (specifically Dopethrone or Come My Fanatics). If those don't do it for you, try Kyuss, and if that's not your deal you should probably avoid anything that has the word "stoner" in the description.
However, there is a very real chance that you might just not be smoking enough weed.
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I'm talking the stuff like Sleep.
Oh, that stuff. I like some of that, but to me, being stoned and listening to bands like that is more annoying than anything else. I think "the deal" is that some people like to get stoned and just zone out. When I'm stoned, I like to bliss out, and as such, if I want to listen to heavy music stoned, it's going to be Acid Mothers Temple, Bardo Pond, Dead Meadow, stuff that has all kinds of interesting little bits, not Dopesmoker which is basically one riff played for an hour straight.
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You don't have to smoke weed to like stoner music, so it probably isn't that.
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Oh god, I can just feel the quixotic dumbass crusade for one's own pedantry-riddled opinion coming on.
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Personally I never considered stuff like Bardo Pond stoner metal. I have always just thought of that kind of stuff as heavy psychedelic. Which I really dig.
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What's the deal with The Tea Party?
They were an excessively pretentious band who nonetheless managed to release one absolutely killer album (Splendor Solis) before embarking on a journey further and further up their own arses with each subsequent release, while somehow simultaneously managing to pick up more and more fans. Recently, the Arcade Fire have fallen victim to what I like to call "the Tea Party syndrome", whereby their debut album was incredibly exciting and musically invigorating (Splendor Solis/Funeral - notwithstanding that Splendor Solis wasn't technically the Tea Party's first album, but let's leave that argument to the obsessives . . .), but they only started to get more mainstream attention with a second album (The Edges of Twilight/Neon Bible) which, while not exactly bad, was so lumbering and ponderous as to be something of a dead weight compared to its predecessor.
It's too late now for the Tea Party. As for the Arcade Fire, only time will tell.
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have a friend who keeps sending me their tracks, and while I dig the guitar, that sub-Morrison singer can really grate on my nerves.
Now, somebody tell me what's up with the Brian Jonestown Massacre. I saw Dig! and everybody (even Genesis!) talked about how mind-blowingly awesome they were, and then I got a few of their albums and... well, I don't get it.
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Personally I never considered stuff like Bardo Pond stoner metal. I have always just thought of that kind of stuff as heavy psychedelic. Which I really dig.
If you're way more into Bardo Pond than Sleep then I think it's really just that you're coming into the genre from the direction farthest from the direction that Sleep and High on Fire come from. I recommended Om and Electric Wizard because they're sorta the bridge between the heavy-psych aspects of "stoner rock" in general and the thrashier feeling that you sometimes get with Sleep and High on Fire. You're probably going to like Om a lot better than you like Electric Wizard.
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Inlander, you are perhaps aware that some people think Neon Bible is significantly better than Funeral?
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Now, somebody tell me what's up with the Brian Jonestown Massacre. I saw Dig! and everybody (even Genesis!) talked about how mind-blowingly awesome they were, and then I got a few of their albums and... well, I don't get it.
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What I like about Brian Jonestown Massacre is that they are extremely good at copying the sounds of a lot of other bands. This makes for spotty albums but their 2-disc "best of" type deal is the business.
@tommy: Yes, precisely.
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I like fun, catchy pop songs too (I love the Pipettes) but seriously, man. Vampire Weekend don't even sound like they're trying.
So you're saying it's effortlessly catchy pop music? :)
I'm pretty taken aback from by the hype, but I think it's awesome - even though most of the album has been floating around for a year.
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What I like about Brian Jonestown Massacre is that they are extremely good at copying the sounds of a lot of other bands. This makes for spotty albums but their 2-disc "best of" type deal is the business.
The Brian Jonestown Massacre for me was a path to discovering great music from previous decades. Many great bands I first stumbled upon as influences of The BJM, and I'm well aware that they bring nothing new to the table.
However, I challenge you to find me an album that sounds exactly like Strung Out in Heaven. It is a fucking masterpiece the likes of which I've yet to find in the past.
This conveniently leads me to my next point; neo-psychedelia, in my opinion, is not a revival of psychedelia. It is an entirely different genre much more comparable to garage or 60s pop.
I'm speaking mostly about the 90s, of course. 80s neo-psych incorporated a lot more drone, but was stilll completely unrelated to the original psychedelic bands.
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What's the deal with free jazz?
It's a music form that only a few masters could truly handle and perfect (Albert Ayler, Ornette Coleman, Pharaoh Sanders etc.), while uninformed music fans take the work of imitators to judge and criticize the entire genre. This is the mark of true ignorance: reverting to terms such as masturbation to dismiss what one doesn't understand. Really, the good music should be given proper respect, considering the difficulty involved in crafting beauty out of a confusing idiom.
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This is the mark of true ignorance: reverting to terms such as masturbation to dismiss what one doesn't understand.
Holy crap, all these presumptive new people are hilarious.
It was a joke, man. Lighten up. I think you'll find that there are many jokes made by people here.
Ob4chan: Lurk moar.
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What's the deal with The Tea Party?
They were an excessively pretentious band who nonetheless managed to release one absolutely killer album (Splendor Solis) before embarking on a journey further and further up their own arses with each subsequent release, while somehow simultaneously managing to pick up more and more fans. Recently, the Arcade Fire have fallen victim to what I like to call "the Tea Party syndrome", whereby their debut album was incredibly exciting and musically invigorating (Splendor Solis/Funeral - notwithstanding that Splendor Solis wasn't technically the Tea Party's first album, but let's leave that argument to the obsessives . . .), but they only started to get more mainstream attention with a second album (The Edges of Twilight/Neon Bible) which, while not exactly bad, was so lumbering and ponderous as to be something of a dead weight compared to its predecessor.
It's too late now for the Tea Party. As for the Arcade Fire, only time will tell.
Is it wrong that I liked Transmission? I haven't heard much of their other stuff, mainly because the little I heard of rest of it I didn't like.
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Inlander, you are perhaps aware that some people think Neon Bible is significantly better than Funeral?
The Bruce Springsteen fans?
Hey, I love The Boss but I don't have a particularly high opinion of Neon Bible.
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Is it wrong that I liked Transmission? I haven't heard much of their other stuff, mainly because the little I heard of rest of it I didn't like.
Here are a couple of key songs from Splendor Solis for you to listen to, if you like:
"The River" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh0C3e0He2k).
"Save Me" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTnq0goeR04&feature=related).
Like I said, pretentious as all hell, and they don't exactly wear their influences lightly, but musically these songs are a hell of a lot more thoughtful and interesting than what they put out afterwards.
Fair warning, though: unless you have a deep and abiding fondness for the early-90s tribal fetishist aesthetic, you;'re best advised to avert your eyes from the videos themselves.
On a somewhat related note, I'm thinking of starting an occasional series for the music blog in which I revisit albums I used to love but haven't listened to in years, to see whether I still like them.
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This thread reminds me of endless talks with my friends, so I have a very specific question that I have always wondered about.
What is the deal with Pet Sounds?
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This is the mark of true ignorance: reverting to terms such as masturbation to dismiss what one doesn't understand.
Holy crap, all these presumptive new people are hilarious.
It was a joke, man. Lighten up. I think you'll find that there are many jokes made by people here.
Ob4chan: Lurk moar.
Sorry, it's just most criticism of all forms of jazz kinda bugs me. I like pretending to be an expert on everything! :lol:
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Oh, and what's the deal with Xiu Xiu. The guy in the band can't sing for crackers, he basically moans, and they've made 8 albums --> how can such crap be so loved by many. The singer should just chill.
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Is it wrong that I liked Transmission? I haven't heard much of their other stuff, mainly because the little I heard of rest of it I didn't like.
Here are a couple of key songs from Splendor Solis for you to listen to, if you like:
"The River" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh0C3e0He2k).
"Save Me" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTnq0goeR04&feature=related).
Like I said, pretentious as all hell, and they don't exactly wear their influences lightly, but musically these songs are a hell of a lot more thoughtful and interesting than what they put out afterwards.
Fair warning, though: unless you have a deep and abiding fondness for the early-90s tribal fetishist aesthetic, you;'re best advised to avert your eyes from the videos themselves.
On a somewhat related note, I'm thinking of starting an occasional series for the music blog in which I revisit albums I used to love but haven't listened to in years, to see whether I still like them.
Heh, you're right, that was better. There was less phrygian dominant abuse too, which makes me happy. Still, probably not something that'd receive constant play by me, mainly for the reasons you stated.
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Oh, and what's the deal with Xiu Xiu.
Some people like music that is deliberately uncomfortable, creepy, confrontational, confessional and gay.
I think Jamie Stewart is one of the best vocalists currently making albums. His performance on "I Luv the Valley OH!" is nothing less than five-star.
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now i dont get any rap, but hey WTF is with soulja boy, its an all around bad song and everyone wets themselvs when they hear it
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Oh, and what's the deal with Xiu Xiu.
Some people like music that is deliberately uncomfortable, creepy, confrontational, confessional and gay.
I think Jamie Stewart is one of the best vocalists currently making albums. His performance on "I Luv the Valley OH!" is nothing less than five-star.
Exactly. Someone missed out on the notion that musicians don't have to be technically accomplished.
Sad Pony Guerilla Girl is my favourite though..
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now i dont get any rap, but hey WTF is with soulja boy, its an all around bad song and everyone wets themselvs when they hear it
I'm not really a rap fan, and even if I were I probably wouldn't think Soulja Boy was actually a good song. But as it is I think it's kind of awesome in a pure hilarity way - the dance is funny and fun to do (or to watch weird groups of people do, like the youtube clips of 9 year old ballet classes and MIT students with Richard Stallman), and the lyrics are ridiculous. Now superman dat ho!
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I am a big rap fan. What he meant to say was, it's a fucking terrible song. It possesses no redeeming qualities. The sheer lack of talent and stupidity of the whole thing turned it into a phenomenon.
P.S. I love you Richard Stallman.
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I guess I'm coming from the perspective of having just been introduced to free jazz by Peter Brotzmann's "Machine Gun." I just don't understand it at all.
I'll try and upload some Ornette Coleman, Archie Shepp and Albert Ayler for you. It's best to work your way slowly in Free Jazz from early expiriments to the full out lets make people deaf stylings of early Zorn and Brotzmann.
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whats the deal with xiu xiu? why do people listen to him? he confooses and disorients me
"this rock sucks as soap"
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I have a strange feeling of déjà vu.
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Okay I know thread necromancy is bad and stuff but this one is only a few days dead and I need to know something.
(http://www.damnimcute.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/seinfeld.jpg)
Vampire Weekend.
Seriously, what the fuck?
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Dude I already said Vampire Weekend in this thread.
YOU FAIL.
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I have never listened to vampire weekend but how good can a band called Vampire Weekend be?
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What's the deal with the Velvet Underground? And Wilco? And Yo La Tengo? And Ratatat? And Grizzly Bear? And Elliott Smith? And, honestly, Daft Punk?
Sorry for the band overkill on my first post. hah.
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The deal with the Velvet Underground is that they wrote Sister Ray.
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The deal with the Velvet Underground is that they wrote Sister Ray.
I can't disagree with that. That and Foggy Notion are the only two songs I like by them, so far.
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The deal with the Velvet Underground is that they wrote Sister Ray.
And "Venus in Furs".
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Dude I already said Vampire Weekend in this thread.
YOU FAIL.
AAHHH GODDAMNIT!
I apologize. I fail at this thread. Fuck fuck fuck. Sorry guys.
Edit: Tune in next week as Sean posts in the zombie thread why sub-machine guns are an excellent idea against undead foes! Hilarity ensues!
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What's the deal with Bright Eyes?
I know plenty of people despise him, but I've met just enough people who actually like him to make me wonder why.
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Conor Oberst is actually a pretty cool dude. I know him through a coworker.
I don't blow my load over him, but he makes some good shit. Easily accessible, often eclectic, tastefully done pop. Which is more than I can say for most music in the same vein.
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I must say, even though I am not a fan of his music (I only own Cassadaga, and I rarely if ever listen to it), but I Must Belong Somewhere is an intensely good song. It's just folksy enough to be a great track.
I used to like Four Winds, but then I got tired of his transparent political agenda proselytizing.
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Yeah, what Eugene said.
Also, he's got that passionate, romantic intensity about him in his acoustic stuff - half arcade fire, half elliott smith.
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His voice bums me the fuck out at times. I think it's gotten more nasally over time.
Some songs it really compliments, but mostly it's just annoying.
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HeEeEeeEyyeyYy gGguyysYyuuYuys ThhIIhis Iiiis HhHoOw Ii TtAllLk AllLl thHe TiIimMe Ii'M SssSsooO BbBroKenN
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HeEeEeeEyyeyYy gGguyysYyuuYuys ThhIIhis Iiiis HhHoOw Ii TtAllLk AllLl thHe TiIimMe Ii'M SssSsooO BbBroKenN
At first I was like "What the hell is this?"
And then I got it.
And then I realized it was pretty apt.
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how about the band "X"
i like some punk from their era, and can appreciate the context of the times. But how the hell are they legendary?
my girlfriend has recently taken to brighteyes ans sufjan stevens and while a song or two of theirs have caught my interest momentarily if find the majority of it to be white guy wankery, am i missing something?
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Hey! I wondered if that joke was made in another thread! You stole my joke about an obvious joke and used it to make an obvious joke!
Part of me is angry, but the other part is flattered.
Also eat a turd, Tommy, Sufjan weaves brilliant poetic narratives framed around the history of a state or his own personal mythology (for the latter, see Seven Swans) against the backdrop of sublimely orchestrated folk, and Oberst has a grasp of language and melody that has matured over time. If you don't get that there's nothing wrong with that, but both artists have made some utterly fantastic music. They ain't no Lincoln Park or Limp Biscuit.
I'm on board with you as far as X goes, though. Good band.
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And Grizzly Bear?¹ And, honestly, Daft Punk?²
¹They make goods songs and the voices are good too.
²The awesomeness, seriously, the fucking awesomeness
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Don't be a dick tommy. Those artists are not even working in the same ballpark as Bright Eyes.
Fuck a bunch of Bright Eyes hate. Sufjan Stevens is atrocious but the first three Bright Eyes albums are shockingly good and most people who don't think so are just made uncomfortable by his confessional nature. Will Oldham never cried during one of his songs. He keeps a studied alloofness that allows him plausible deniability that he is singing about anything in his life at all. Conor Oberst is an egomaniacal, flawed, self-loathing, over-analytical wreck of a drug addict and he knows it and is not afraid to be honest. Listen to the "fake interview" in "An Attempt to Tip the Scales" and then get back to me. Until then, eat it.
As for X, they are legendary because, like the Buzzcocks, they were that rare beast - a punk band that could actually write catchy songs.
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Sonic Youth; what's the deal? :-P
(http://www.damnimcute.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/seinfeld.jpg)
^ definitely a joke.
On a serious note; what's the deal with Led Zeppelin? I just don't get it.
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Seriously, tommy, listen to "An Attempt to Tip the Scales" and then we can continue this discussion if you like. Or I could just post a transcript of it:
Radio dude - R
Conor Oberst - C
R: Hi, we're back, this is radio K[beep]x and we're here with Conor Oberst of the band Bright Eyes.
How are you doing Conor?
C: Fine, thanks, just a little wet...
R: Oh it’s still coming down out there?
C: yeah, I sort of had to run from the car...
R: well, we are glad you made it! Now, your new album, “Fevers and Mirrors”.. tell us a little about the title,
I know there's a good deal of repeated imagery in the lyrics; fevers, mirrors, scales, clocks...
Could you discuss some of this?
C: Sure. Let's see, the fever's...
R: First, First let me say that, this is a brilliant record man, we're all really into it here at the station,
we get lots of calls, its really good stuff.
C: Thanks... Thanks a lot...
R: So talk about some of the symbolisms...
C: the fever?
R: sure!
C: well, the fever is basically, what ever ails you, or presses you... It could be anything, in my case it’s my neurosis
my... depression...but I don’t want it to be limited to that... it's certainly different for different people...
so, what ever keeps you up at night...
R: I see...
C: and the, and the mirror's like, as you might have guessed, self-examination, or reflection, or whatever form...
this could be vanity, or self loathing... I, I know I’m, I’m guilty of both...
R: That’s interesting... How about the scales?
C: The scales are essentially our attempt to solve our problems quantitatively, through logic or rationalization...
In my opinion it’s often fruitless, but... always, no, not always...
And the clocks and calenders is uh... is just... time... our little measurements, its like, its always chasing after us.
R: It is... It is...
Uh, How about this Arienette, how does she fit into all this?
C: Umm, I’d prefer not to talk about it... in case she's listening...
R: Oh, I’m sorry; I didn't realize she was a real person.
C: She's not. I made her up...
R: Oh, So she's not real?
C: Just as real as you or I...
R: I don’t think I understand...
C: Neither do I, but after I grow up, I will. I mean a lot... A lot of things…are really unclear for me right now...
R: That’s interesting. Ah, now you mentioned your depression...
C: ...No I didn’t...
R: You're from Nebraska right?
C: Yeah... so?
R: Now, let me now if I’m getting to personal, but there seem to be a pretty dark past back there somewhere...
what was it like for you growing up?
C: Dark? Not really... uh... actually I had a great childhood, my parents were wonderful, I went to a catholic school.
They have... they had money so... it... It was all... easy... basically I had everything I wanted... handed to me...
R: Really? So some of the references like babies in bathtubs, are not biographical?
C: Well I do have a brother who died in a bathtub, drowned... actually I had five brothers who died that way...
R: Hah!
C: No, I’m serious... My mother drowned one every year for... five consecutive years...
they were all named “Padriac”, so, that’s…they all got one song...
R: Hmm...
C: It’s kinda like... Walking out the door, to discover it’s a window...
R: But your music is certainly very personal.
C: of course, I put a lot of myself into what I do. But It’s like, being an author you have to,
free yourself to use symbolism and allegory to reach your goal...
and... And a part of that is, compassion, empathy for other people and, and their situations.
Some of what I sing comes from other people’s experiences as well as my own...
It…It shouldn't matter; the message is intended to be universal.
R: I see what you mean...
C: Can you make that sound stop please?
R: Yes! And your goal?
C: I don’t know... uh, create feelings, I guess... a song... it never ends up the way you planned it though...
R: That’s funny that you say that, do you think that...
C: Do you ever hear things, not really there?
R: I’m sorry, what?
C: ...never mind... how long have you worked at this station?
R: Oh, Just a few minutes...uh, now you mentioned your empathy for others,
would you say that, that is what motivates you to make the music that you make?
C: No not really, its more, a need for sympathy, I want people to feel sorry for me.
I like the feel of... the burn of the audience's eyes on me when I’m whispering *all my darkest secrets* into the microphone.
When I was a kid, I used to carry this safety pin around with me, everywhere I went in my pocket.
And when people weren't paying enough attention, I’d dig it into my arm until I started crying...
Everyone stopped what they were doing, and asked me what was the matter, I guess, I guess I kinda...
R: Really? You’re telling me you're doing all this for attention?
C: No, I hate it when people look at me, I get nauseous. In fact, I could care less what people think, about me.
Do you feel that?... wanna dance?
R: No... I'm feeling sick...
C: I really just wanna be warm yellow light that pours all over everyone I love...
R: So... uh, you’re gonna play something for us now, is this a new song?
C: Yeah, but I haven't written it yet... it’s one I’ve been meaning to write... uh...called... “A Song To Pass The Time”...
R: oh, that’s a nice title...
C: ...no it isn't...
You should write your own... scripts...
R: yeah, I know!
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Carlyism, the deal with Sonic Youth- they use epic distorted guitars and noise with complete control to convey something chaotic and angsty. They are orignal, fun, aggresive, clever, and charismatic. A true testament to their ability is that whether you like them or not, there music is always memorable, but not because it is catchy and mindless. Their songs are dense and complex and reveal more and more on repeated listens. Some of their stuff is quite hard to listen to though and I recconmend you start with Daydream nation.
As too led Zep, i don't get them either.
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Led Zeppelin is one of this worlds great mysterious failures. I sure as hell don't know why they happened either.
I doubt even Scooby-Doo and the Gang could figure out what the fuck is with Led Zeppelin.
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Led Zeppelin are a very good rock band for people whose tastes don't run too far in the experimental direction.
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Carlyism, the deal with Sonic Youth- they use epic distorted guitars and noise with complete control to convey something chaotic and angsty. They are orignal, fun, aggresive, clever, and charismatic. A true testament to their ability is that whether you like them or not, there music is always memorable, but not because it is catchy and mindless. Their songs are dense and complex and reveal more and more on repeated listens. Some of their stuff is quite hard to listen to though and I recconmend you start with Daydream nation.
As too led Zep, i don't get them either.
I was kidding! Sonic Youth is my favorite band. I should have made it a bit more obvious... :-(
I have a friend who is deeply in love with Zeppelin. He lent me every CD and I still couldn't figure out why they're so great. Jimmy Page isn't even that great of a guitarist.
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Carlyism, the deal with Sonic Youth- they use epic distorted guitars and noise with complete control to convey something chaotic and angsty. They are orignal, fun, aggresive, clever, and charismatic. A true testament to their ability is that whether you like them or not, there music is always memorable, but not because it is catchy and mindless. Their songs are dense and complex and reveal more and more on repeated listens. Some of their stuff is quite hard to listen to though and I recconmend you start with Daydream nation.
As too led Zep, i don't get them either.
I was kidding! Sonic Youth is my favorite band. I should have made it a bit more obvious... :-(
I have a friend who is deeply in love with Zeppelin. He lent me every CD and I still couldn't figure out why they're so great. Jimmy Page isn't even that great of a guitarist.
haha shit sorry! Does need to be a little more obvious though, like maybe by using this little fella :-P
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tommy, you spent a lot of time hating on Oberst's personality, so I was trying to mediate that.
Musically, he is not doing the same thing as Will Oldham, Jandek, et al whatsoever. Bright Eyes songs, especially beginning with the third album, are far more elaborately arranged and complex. He is not a folk artist, except for that one album.
Also, you seem to be laboring under the entirely false impression that he sings about taking drugs a lot. I can think of maybe 3 or 4 songs that reference drugs.
Basically, I like Bright Eyes for the same reason I like The Catcher in the Rye. Your expression of distaste that somehow growing up privileged means you cannot be emotionally tormented or in pain is laughable on the surface and ridiculous throughout. Material things do not bring happiness. Ian Curtis did not grow up in abject poverty; he went to a nice English school just like many others in his generation.
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"First Day of My Life" is a freaking adorable song with a freaking adorable video. Maybe Oberst should just write happy music?
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It shows, Mr. Oberst. I can see this in everything you do. You had no great struggle in your life and your entire existence is a search for vicitimisation.
I think you've just hit on what the deal with Bright Eyes is yourself. When I was really into his music I was having the most teenage years you could imagine. Victimisation is exactly what I was looking for and an artist who was doing the same thing struck a chord with me. Now I listen to albums that I used to love and they don't do much for me at all. I can still see what I saw in it, but it's not what I'm after anymore.
[edit]Yeah, First Day Of My Life is still pretty and probably now my favourite of his songs.
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On a serious note; what's the deal with Led Zeppelin? I just don't get it.
The thing with Led Zeppelin is the riffs. Well, the drumming is great too but let's talk about the riffs. They're catchy as well as being pretty heavy in the same way modern bands are. You can see this if you listen to Coalesce's mini-album 'There Is Nothing New Under The Sun' which consists of Led Zeppelin covers. The music sticks in the head but it's still pretty crushing. Take any band that play what's often called post-metal (Pelican, Isis, any band on Hydrahead ever) and they owe a huge debt to Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath laid a lot of the ground for metal, stoner rock and a lot of hardcore. Not bad for a bunch of guys who spent most of their time pilfering old blues riffs. I can see why people don't like them and I don't listen to their records much myself, but I can hear the influence of their work in a vast amount of things I do play regularly, which I suppose explains why so many people still regard them so highly.
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Basically, I like Bright Eyes for the same reason I like The Catcher in the Rye.
Reading this argument from the sidelines, I tend to agree with you. However, recognize that there are two types of people in the world. People who associated with Holden Caulfield and those who thought he was a spoiled, immature, whiny douche bag.
Also recognize that it is impossible to prove to one kind that the other is right. I've tried many times.
Pretty much the same deal here. There are certain arguments that cannot be won for the simple reason that we don't all have the same perception of the world.
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I know.
My main objection to tommy's arguments against Bright Eyes are that they seem to come from an ignorance of what his material actually sounds like.
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Basically, I like Bright Eyes for the same reason I like The Catcher in the Rye.
Reading this argument from the sidelines, I tend to agree with you. However, recognize that there are two types of people in the world. People who associated with Holden Caulfield and those who thought he was a spoiled, immature, whiny douche bag.
Also recognize that it is impossible to prove to one kind that the other is right. I've tried many times.
Pretty much the same deal here. There are certain arguments that cannot be won for the simple reason that we don't all have the same perception of the world.
I think you're wrong comparing them in any way. Holden is a young kid who has a profound, deeply personal objection with the inauthentic folk of the world, one that darkens his view of society. Conor Oberst fakes political and social concern in order to sell records and be lauded a "troubled troubadour". And his music sucks.
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You are wrong,
Conor Oberst Holden Caufield was a spoiled, immature, whiny douche bag
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Conor Oberst fakes political and social concern in order to sell records
How many Crass patches do you have on your jacket?
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You say that like there's something wrong with Crass patches on a jacket.
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One time I told a room full of teenage punks that the Dead Kennedys were a better punk band than Crass and they thought I was joking.
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I swear every thread on this forum turns into a Hate On Conor Oberst Thread. I like him, you may not. I accept that fact that I cannot change your mind, and I do not want to. So can we just drop it now? I'm kind of sick of it.
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A strange position to be surprised at the idea of the Dead Kennedys being better than Crass. Almost no punk bands could be sensibly argued to be better than the Dead Kennedys. Still, The Feeding Of The 5000 and Christ - The Album are great records. Well, they're great records if you like people with Southern accents ranting about anarchy over primitive music, but happily I do. A lot.
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Seriously, hating on Bright Eyes is so '04.
Hating any band in fact is a massive waste of time. Henry Rollins says "Hating someone is giving them to much of yourself. Instead of hating them, just ignore them. It's like if someone tries to hand you a pile of horse shit. You don't have to take it!"
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Sadly, I'm pretty sure there's people out there for whom hate's the only thing getting them up in the morning. :|
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Hi there!
Well, not really. I did once write a short piece for a zine in defence of hate though. I do think it has a number of positive characteristics. I don't hate Bright Eyes though. I find it shallow and uninteresting for largely the same reasons Tommy gave above but it doesn't intrude on my life at all, so hate would be a bit of an extreme reaction.
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I did once write a short piece for a zine in defence of hate
How many Crass patches do you have on your jacket?
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"Hating someone is giving them to much of yourself. Instead of hating them, just ignore them. It's like if someone tries to hand you a pile of horse shit. You don't have to take it!"
As usual, Henry Rollins has shown us the way. There's nothing like an angry hardcore vocalist to get you through life.
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You rarely go wrong with that. I once got hammered on white russians while listening to Damaged and decided that spray painting my walls was indeed a good idea. And it was.
I have no Crass patches on my jacket, sadly. I think I might have an old bag with a Crass badge on it though, and I do have a friend who has the logo tattooed on her ankle.
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Man Conor Oberst has been supremely misrepresented in this thread.
I also don't understand the grudge people hold against Sufjan Stevens. Perhaps it is his success.
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Conor Oberst is far more successful than Sufjan Stevens and I like him.
I just do not like Sufjan's music. It is very dull to me.
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I guess it's easy to confuse "dull" with "sublime."
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The thing with Led Zeppelin is the riffs. Well, the drumming is great too but let's talk about the riffs. They're catchy as well as being pretty heavy in the same way modern bands are. You can see this if you listen to Coalesce's mini-album 'There Is Nothing New Under The Sun' which consists of Led Zeppelin covers. The music sticks in the head but it's still pretty crushing. Take any band that play what's often called post-metal (Pelican, Isis, any band on Hydrahead ever) and they owe a huge debt to Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath laid a lot of the ground for metal, stoner rock and a lot of hardcore. Not bad for a bunch of guys who spent most of their time pilfering old blues riffs. I can see why people don't like them and I don't listen to their records much myself, but I can hear the influence of their work in a vast amount of things I do play regularly, which I suppose explains why so many people still regard them so highly.
I totally understand that they're important (they did, after all put hard rock on the scene), but I just don't really understand why people put them on such a high pedestal. Jimmy Page is NOT an amazing guitarist (his playing is pretty sloppy) and Robert Plant's voice is pretty obnoxious. But eh. People love different things, lol.
Off topic a bit; if I were to get a Sufjan Stevens album, which one would you guys recommend?
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Surely Illinois, though Seven Swans is great.
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What is the deal with Interpol? Almost everyone I know likes them and I just don't see it.
But yeah, what's the deal with Interpol?
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Interpol is a decent band if you enjoy stark imagery and instrumentation. Their first album is good if you grew up listening to The Church, Lush, Slowdive, et al.
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Uh, if you don't give a shit about lyrics then why are you dogging on Bright Eyes' lyrical content instead of discussing his musicality?
Pick an argument and stick with it, man.
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What is the deal with Interpol? Almost everyone I know likes them and I just don't see it.
But yeah, what's the deal with Interpol?
Interpol's first album was a dark, cohesive work that took its influences and blended it into something new and fantastic. It's probably one of my favourite albums to this day. Likewise, the second album took those influences, made them listen to the Afghan Whigs, turned down the reverb and wound up being not bad at all.
Their new one is really, really dire though. There are some highs but largely lows, and what lows they are.
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I'm just quite confused as to how you think Bright Eyes is really working in the same musical arena as Will Oldham or Jandek. Unless you're talking about the songs he recorded when he was 13-17.
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Boris.
What is the deal with Boris.
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The deal with boris? Well, they combine some awesome drone music with some awesome psychedelic rock, and a smidgeon of hardcore. they are called Boris. the song 'naki kyoku' is a masterpiece IMO.
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the deal with Boris is that they somehow make drone NOT BORING which is something new to me and then after ten minutes of droning they proceed to rock the fuck out.
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The deal with Boris, other than that Pink utterly fucking destroys for combining shoegazer, psychedlia, metal, and punk, is that they are also proficient at changing up their style quite a bit (see their last two albums, Rainbow and Smile).
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the brighteyes fire is burning strong! bring marshmallows and we'll light em on fire and see who can fling em furthest into the lake!
i hadn't caught the whole junkie thing or the rich kid business, in fact the only song i know well enough to cite is "at the bottom of everything" which is pretty great actually. Everything else i tried to listen to i managed to halfway in before i turned it off. However as far as rich kids with heavy drug addictions go, i find that argument to be a bit of a cop out, i mean look at william burroughs - he grew up with a trust fund which allowed him to travel, live by his whims, get out of the army with little more than a smirk and some babble of schizophrenia , got himself a crazy ass heroin addiction, then changed writing as we know it as well as kicked off the beat movement by taking ginsberg and keroac under his wing. I'm not saying i like everything he wrote or in fact much more than his first few novels, but that being a rich junkie desperate for attention is not enough ground to dismiss someone, if their art sucks it just sucks.
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Plus, this.
I always thought a punk was someone who took it up the ass.
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my girlfriend has recently taken to brighteyes ans sufjan stevens and while a song or two of theirs have caught my interest momentarily if find the majority of it to be white guy wankery, am i missing something?
I could listen to Chicago on repeat until the die I day.
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Damn my vagueness. I should've seen that coming.
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i thought that's what you were talking about since my brain seems to skip over the words "brighteyes" and "sufjan stevens" for some reason.
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I can understand roughly one half of that 'unconscious glance past' thing you have going.
Anyway, I'm going to switch up the format a little bit. What's the deal with people not liking In the Aeroplane Over the Sea?
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A lot of people who hate Aeroplane mostly do so based on Mangum's voice. It's very hit or miss, either you love it or loathe it.
Also, when my friends first got into NMH they thought his name was Jeff Magnum. My friend Scott and I had a good laugh at the liner notes in ITAOTS listing him as Jeff Mangum, until I talked to my other friend who informed me that his name was Mangum.
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I LOOOOVE YOOU JESUUUS CHRIIIIIIST
I can imagine how that could be polarizing.
I used to think his name was Jeff Magnum too. I thought that was way too badass for him though.
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So many people make that mistake. In fact, type in Jeff Magnum in wikipedia and you will be redirected.
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What's the deal with Against Me!
Also, whats the deal with the Hold Steady?
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The Hold Steady are fun bar rock - you like it or you don't. It's like Dylan went to a bar one day and got completely wasted and started a loud band and developed an even shittier voice than his current one.
That said, I actually DO like Craig Finn's voice on occasion.
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What's the deal with Broken Social Scene? I just got You Forgot It In People, and maybe I just need to give it a few more listens, but it wasn't immediate love.
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If KC Accidental didn't grab you by the balls, make love to you and never let go from the first listen, I don't know if much can be done for you.
I kid. If anything, the album was made to reveal its goodness over repeated listens. To be honest, I kinda space out on anything after Cause = Time, and I don't listen to the album a whole lot anymore. It's still pretty good though.
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What's the deal with Broken Social Scene? I just got You Forgot It In People, and maybe I just need to give it a few more listens, but it wasn't immediate love.
Feist and
(http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/amg/music/cover/3429301_bss_200.jpg)
don't mind the rest, honestly. just get their self titled ^. a swan song if i ever heard one, and one of the most beautiful--and most SOLID--albums you'll ever hear.
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Material things may not bring happiness but in my experience people who never wanted for anything as a child, never felt the very real threat of imminent ruin create utterly insipid music if they try to look tortured. Maybe not in all circumstances but at least 95% of the time. Definitively not what I am looking for in music.
What does this mean? Is it imminent ruin like death or is it relative? I am not well versed in musical history, but I doubt most of the best music was created by those facing the former.
I can understand if you genuinely believe the guy is a poser creating an image to profit. But your sentiment comes off as 'the financially secure's pain is less than that off those in poverty', it's a popular opinion but ultimately just an opinion as there is no definitive way to measure 'unhappiness'.
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So many people make that mistake. In fact, type in Jeff Magnum in wikipedia and you will be redirected.
Ironically, there was an actual Jeff Magnum. He was a punk rocker.
If you've found any of my posts on this page interesting, you'll love Please Kill Me by Gillian McCain and Legs McNeil.
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Conor Oberst fakes political and social concern in order to sell records
How many Crass patches do you have on your jacket?
What the hell is a Crass patch???
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What the hell is with The tough alliance?? :?
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What is the deal with deerhoof? Is it meant to make me go castrate myself rather than listen to it?
EDIT: I'm gonna take that back. I see their appeal now.
It's so addictive...panda panda panda...
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What the hell is a Crass patch???
(http://www.8ball.co.uk/productimages/28567-2.jpg)
DO THEY OWE US A LIVING
OF COURSE THEY DO OF COURSE THEY DO
OWE US A LIVING
OF COURSE THEY DO OF COURSE THEY DO
DO THEY OWE US A LIVING
OF COURSE THEY DO OF COURSE THEY DO
DO THEY OWE US A LIVING?
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DO
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Thank you for answering that question far better than the belaboured sigh I was about to convey through typing.
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What's the deal with Against Me!
Against Me! were a very good punk band who wrote very catchy and reasonably intelligent songs about DIY and politics (ignore Baby I'm An Anarchist, it was a joke song after all). Their early work used acoustic guitars later expanding to use electric guitars and drums on their first album Reinventing Axl Rose, but it retained a lot of the acoustic punk sound and about half of the tracks were re-recorded versions of originally acoustic numbers. Their second album As The Eternal Cowboy was a more straightforward punk record which put some people off but was still pretty good. Unfortunately they then decided to sack all of that off and produce godawful MOR nonsense and pissed off the vast majority of their old fans by becoming the exact opposite of the kind of band their early work eulogised.
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I think the argument being made is that it's somewhat of an error to assume that the rich haven't gone through hardship. It's just a different type of hardship. Some great art can still be made out of it, but it requires a level of depth and self-awareness that allows the specific situations being outlined to be analyzed and presented in a manner that makes it somewhat universal. I suppose that is why you wrote "in an overwhelming majority of circumstances" rather than "all the dang time!"
Still, it seems an unwise gesture to rule out the capacity of anyone to make good art, regardless of socio-economic standing. If the poor can do it, why can't the rich? If you prick them, they bleed. If you tickle them, they laugh. If you poison them, they die. Granted, they can afford very nice pins, feathers and chemicals, but at the core of it they're still people - possibly distorted people but people nevertheless. I haven't had the chance to meet fabulously wealthy individuals but I've definitely met people who haven't wanted for anything in their lives, and they've had great moments and shit moments. People can treat rich people as well or as badly as they treat me or you, and often do anyways.
At the end of the day, the actual quality of the art has about as much to do with the artist's financial status as it does with gender, race and age - that is, both everything and nothing. Best to judge the music on its own merits rather than a potentially false image of the artist we've built up in our own minds.
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Man, it's one thing to take a shot at the wealthy, but don't you ever talk that way about Pokemon again.
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Well that was a quick way out tommydski :-D
In addition to what johnny said, I'd like to note that even though it's best to judge music on its own and not by its "cover" I find that virtually noone can ever find it in themselves to do just that. I find myself considering both the cover, the artist, his/her's opinions, looks and so on and I haven't even gotten to the part of what I think of the reviews! If I buy a book I find to be interesting judging by its backcover and what it says, it's impossible for me to look past the reviews that says its "rich" and "strange" and whatnot. After I finish the book/cd/movie and so on, or during (!) I find myself considering if I agree in what the reviews had to say.. Sometimes it steals all the attention away and to say it out loud it's a pain in the ass. Is it just me?
Btw what's the deal with NIN?
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Well that was a quick way out tommydski :-D
It's what happens when confronted with the reasoning of one's betters.
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The comparison was made earlier, so I'm going to ask:
What's the deal with everyone thinking Neon Bible has anything to do with The Boss?
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But I'm fairly sure a mediocre hardcore band could look exactly the same a mindblowing math rock band...
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What's the deal with the Fiery Furnaces? I listened to all of Blueberry Boat, and I thought it wasn't all that bad, but I always skip it when it comes up on shuffle. Maybe it's just impossible to listen to the tracks without the context of the album? Dunno.
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Lets take a popular hardcore band then...say, bad brains. And then take the band I am listening to- the boredoms. Now compare the first two images that appear on google image.
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Are you sure you aren't just saying A because of B?
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Damn. That works better than I thought it would.
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What's the deal with the Fiery Furnaces? I listened to all of Blueberry Boat, and I thought it wasn't all that bad, but I always skip it when it comes up on shuffle. Maybe it's just impossible to listen to the tracks without the context of the album? Dunno.
I know I find Fiery Furnaces better in album form than in track form. There are only a handful of songs I listen to on an individual and regular basis, and most of them are on their EP and Gallowsbird's Bark.
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I actually don't have a problem with listening to the individually. Also, Widow City is very accessible on an individual basis.
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No. If I saw pictures of either band I would give them the benefit of the doubt.
Try it on yourself. GIS some bands you like and some you hate.
What about a picture of Stars?
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(http://a349.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00499/84/32/499832348_l.jpg)
Bafflingly enough, this picture explains so well my general ambivalence towards Stars but my love for Amy Millan's solo work.
On the other hand, Ladyhawk:
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8100/ladyhawkphotoxg4.jpg)
In retrospect, the answer to every one of these damn questions could just have been answered with a GIS.