THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Harun on 02 Sep 2008, 20:29
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(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bRIahYbx07z3/340x.jpg)
:-D
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And he obviously took it out on his drum tech, judging from the sounds of the new Metallica album.
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ZING
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I thought you couldn't possibly get a shittier drum sound than St. Anger.
But once again Metallica have proved me wrong.
What a band.
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i havnt' listened to the album yet but if they streched the skins any tighter than on st anger they would break wouldn't they?
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not if they were made from the skin of Lars' scrotum
(http://geekbomb.org/upload/hiyo.jpg)
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(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2386/hetfield072508fn7xy3.jpg)
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(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/BeeseveN_90/1219687279176.jpg?t=1219700947)
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Holy shit, my sides
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I just laughed so hard.
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(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/BeeseveN_90/1219687279176.jpg?t=1219700947)
That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen
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That is so metal.
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i havnt' listened to the album yet but if they streched the skins any tighter than on st anger they would break wouldn't they?
To me, the snare sounded like he was hitting a chain-link fence, not a drum.
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http://badstanger.ytmnd.com (http://badstanger.ytmnd.com)
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I've been a staunch defender of Metallica for some time, but having heard the new songs... NOW they've sold out. :roll:
Did anybody else hear the first minute and a half of 'The Day That Never Comes' and expect James to sing 'I have lost the will to live/simply nothing more to- oh shit, sorry, wrong tune.'
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David_Dovey, you win the thread!
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Great, now I'm stifling laughter at work. Thanks a lot, David Dovey.
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David_Dovey, you win the thread!
Seriously. :lol:
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I lose respect for musicians when they get litigious, even more when they complain about their cases to the media.
How does FYE stay in business anyway charging $19 per album? Tower charged less than that and they went away.
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How does FYE stay in business anyway charging $19 per album? Tower charged less than that and they went away.
Because they sell a much better selection than most other stores, especially if you live in an area where there's nowhere that is exclusively a record store.
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Then:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/partyongarth/larsusnare.jpg)
Now:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/partyongarth/today.jpg)
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I lose respect for musicians when they get litigious, even more when they complain about their cases to the media.
How does FYE stay in business anyway charging $19 per album? Tower charged less than that and they went away.
I usually get CDs for less than $15, there is a used store here, and online you can get records cheaper, even after you add shipping.
I think I remember hearing that at least some members of Metallica were into the tape sharing scene when they were younger, anyone remember hearing the same? Sound quality suffered when you would make copies of copies of copies, but still...
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Then:
Regular snare.
Now:
Piccolo snare.
I like the piccolo snares. :[
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I think I remember hearing that at least some members of Metallica were into the tape sharing scene when they were younger, anyone remember hearing the same? Sound quality suffered when you would make copies of copies of copies, but still...
Metallica owe most, if not all, of their success to bootlegs of their performances. It's how they got on their feet.
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"Listen, we're ten days from release,” Ulrich said on The Woody Show on San Francisco radio station Live 105. “I mean, from here, we're golden. If this thing leaks all over the world today or tomorrow, happy days. Happy days. Trust me. Ten days out and it hasn't quote-unquote fallen off the truck yet? Everybody's happy. It's 2008 and it's part of how it is these days, so it's fine. We're happy."
Source (http://www2.kerrang.com/2008/09/metallica_album_leak.html).
Edit: To elaborate, this falls in line with the seemingly little reported fact that Metallica's main complaint in the media back in the day was less with file sharing and more with the fact that somebody jacked an unfinished version of one of their songs (Which turned out terrible anyway, to be fair) and spread it around on the internet. They claimed that back in 2000 and they've been repeating it routinely ever since in statements that have fallen on deaf ears.
As for the "now they've really sold out" remarks. I don't get it. This album is probably the closest to their old sound as they're going to get. In one breath people will say "they're crap, they've sold out, fuck Metallica" because they changed their sound, but when they make their way back toward their old sound "they're crap, they've sold out, fuck Metallica" because they're retreading old ground?
Personally, I dig the album. It's not their best effort, I'd still peg that as Master of Puppets, but I'd call it an overall solid album and I cannot comprehend how anyone can be of the mind that the drum sound is anywhere near as bad as on St. Anger.
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In one breath people will say "they're crap, they've sold out, fuck Metallica" because they changed their sound, but when they make their way back toward their old sound "they're crap, they've sold out, fuck Metallica" because they're retreading old ground?
Except, if you read my post more closely, you'll see I am NOT one of those people.
Metallica have pussied out because their fans were moaning that Metallica didn't sound like the 80s any more. So after trying some new stuff that everyone hated, they've decided to change back to the 1980s sound. In other words, gone against what they wanted for the purpose of $$$. To me, that's selling out.
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Where did I name check you in that post? Try not to read into something that isn't there.
As for your argument, there's two things to this:
One, what ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt? Who says they didn't just get sick of their new direction?
Two, saying they sold out now is as laughable as the entire concept of selling out is to begin with. People bandy it about as if it's some grave sin. Metallica "sold out" decades ago, as soon as they started selling their music. People have a label for bands that play music because they love money, I have a label for people who don't: broke. Three attempted new directions (Black album, the Loads and then St. Anger) that didn't seem to work with their fanbase later and Metallica tried something closer to their old style again. What exactly is the sin here?
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Oh no no. I am most assuredly not becoming a fixture of the music forum. I just saw this thread and was vaguely interested. This place frightens me.
Not to WCT levels, but enough.
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C'mon Jon, the music forums are nowhere near WCT levels. Like, not even close.
Also, I saw a music video for one of the songs. It's terrible. Not only the drums are bad, but the vocals just sounded completely over polished and terrible. But maybe its been like that for a while now.
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One, what ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt? Who says they didn't just get sick of their new direction?
Forgive me for being cynical about a band who weren't above suing their own fans. Hell, I was on their side in that thing, but even so.
Two, saying they sold out now is as laughable as the entire concept of selling out is to begin with. People bandy it about as if it's some grave sin. Metallica "sold out" decades ago, as soon as they started selling their music. People have a label for bands that play music because they love money, I have a label for people who don't: broke. Three attempted new directions (Black album, the Loads and then St. Anger) that didn't seem to work with their fanbase later and Metallica tried something closer to their old style again. What exactly is the sin here?
You don't know me at all. I can count on one hand bands that I think have sold out, and I can't remember who the other ones are anyway.
Selling out isn't selling your music (that's more at the punk/hardcore level of selling out, which I always considered BS), selling out is taking money over principles. Metallica got bored of thrash, tried something new, the fans shat on it and now they've done a U-turn to try and regain their lost credibility.
Makes no difference to me anyway, I wasn't about to buy it, and most Metallica fans think I'm an arsehole anyway because I liked Load and think St. Anger wouldn't be nearly as bad with proper mixing.
Oh, and also I hate ...AJFA, because of the mixing. I can't stand to listen to most of it.
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Again, I'm not targeting you. Bluntly speaking, we seem to have very similar viewpoints up until this moment (I genuinely love about half of Load and Reload and think a decent bit of St. Anger would be better if it weren't terribly produced and mixed, as evidenced by decent live versions). Let's not turn this into a thing. I am not trying to offend you.
I see the matter differently. I give them enough credit as musicians that I don't assume it just took them twelve years to get the point. I find myself believing that if they were simply U-Turning because of a failed direction, they would've done it a lot sooner.
As it stands, I like the new album a good bit. I'm less interested in the politics and the personas behind it all and more interested in whether or not the album appeals to me. It does so, so I'm satisfied.
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I think the new album is great, probably the best since the Black Album. I think the drums sound alright. Lars has NEVER been a particularly mind-blowing drummer, but on here he definitely gets the job done. Hetfield said that they weren't trying to go back to their "old" sound but rather capture the essence of Metallica as a band, and I think they did that. As for them selling out, c'mon, they did that a long time ago. Whatevs.
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MY complaints with the album are more that the drums are TUNED like shit, that has NOTHING to do with Lars. That is his drum tech's fault for making it sound like shit. And the shitty production is Rick Rubin's fault, for, being a shite overrated producer.
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I see the matter differently.
Fair enough.
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MetallicA is awesome.
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I've only heard Day that never comes and My Apocalypse. I like both.
Though I kinda want to find the person who told Lars that Blast beats on a snare that sounds like it has a kevlar head on it is a good idea. It's not. My Apocalypse would be so much better if he just stuck to the two and four snare hits for some the versus. The blast beats are fine for the solo, but it got old real quick.
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MetallicA is awesome.
Thanks for posting?
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I haven't heard My Apocalypse, I found The Day That Never Comes overly long, it could just be that I was actively listening to it rather than listening to it in the background. I don't have anything against long songs, but for them to not get boring, they have to be more than 10 minutes of the same thing. For example, listen to Children of a Worthless God (or better yet, don't) from Exodus, that is doing it wrong. To Bid You Farewell by Opeth is an example of doing it right.
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Yeah, guys.
Let's look at this a bit more evenly.
Back when they were good, Metallica were ripping off Mustaine and riding on Cliff's creativity to get anything done.
Now, they've had 25 years or so in the business, officially. The first 8 of those years saw them delivering basically good thrash metal albums. And now they've been releasing sub-par albums for 17 years.
Do you know what that means?
That means that Metallica is 2/3rds shit. That grave was dug as soon as Cliff's was and the decision to stop ripping off better thrash metal bands wasn't the greatest, either. After ...AJFA they simply lost the elements that made them as fun to listen to.
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I'm shocked, yet I agree with MadassAlex.
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MetallicA is awesome.
Thanks for posting?
No problem.
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After ...AJFA they simply lost the elements that made them as fun to listen to.
I've made this argument so many times..THEY NEED TO GET BACK TO WORKING WITH FLEMMING RASMUSSEN.
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I thought I'd be on the let's-yell-about-metallica-being-shit bandwagon when I heard the singles, but I actually really enjoyed this album. I still want to shoot the drum tech, though.
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Then:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/partyongarth/larsusnare.jpg)
Now:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/partyongarth/today.jpg)
I like some people's piccolo snares, these guys (http://www.myspace.com/fiasconewyork) especially.
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I just picked it up today, and just finished the album about 10 minutes ago.
This album is great... but the evidence of bad mixing is everywhere. :x
I will still listen to it though, because I love the old school Metallica guitar sound. I seriously don't know how these guys are going to be able to play this shit live, it is very fast.
As for the sell-out thing, I don't see how giving their original fan base what they want is selling out. :?
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I just picked it up today, and just finished the album about 10 minutes ago.
This album is great... but the evidence of bad mixing is everywhere. :x
I will still listen to it though, because I love the old school Metallica guitar sound. I seriously don't know how these guys are going to be able to play this shit live, it is very fast.
Shouldn't this make for a great show? I mean, I'm not a big fan of metallica (10-15 songs by them on my iPod), but if the music is good but the production it self is shitty, they should even out at a live gig.
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Shouldn't this make for a great show? I mean, I'm not a big fan of metallica (10-15 songs by them on my iPod), but if the music is good but the production it self is shitty, they should even out at a live gig.
I agree.
I think that most of the album would be great to hear live, but metal concerts are not for the moderate fan. I like the music, but don't live the lifestyle. :oops:
I saw Dethklok at Rams Head Live, these people are fucking crazy.
I can only imagine what an arena sized crowd of die-hard metal fans would be like. :-o
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Metallica play such huge venues I'm fairly certain that the level of "fucking crazy" is impossible to sustain over the entire area. A large number of the people will just be there to listen. An even larger number of the people will not be "die-hard metal fans" at all. Another good portion of the crowd will be drunk, middle-aged men. And the rest will be women flashing the stage.
You're probably safer at a Metallica concert than you are driving to the supermarket in your hometown.
(I probably could've thought about that last line a little longer and made some hilariously lopsided comparison. But goddamn if I don't even care about expending the energy to joke about Metallica.)
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So am I the only one who thinks the vocals are utter shite?
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dude, we are talking about Metallica.
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They were on Live with Jools Holland last night.
They were fucking terrible. The guitars were out of tune, they were all out of time, and James Hetfield still pulls orangutan faces like its the 1980s when playing guitar solos.
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To be fair, it's better than this band I heard in college that consisted of samples produced by scratching a CD and putting it in the CD-player.
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"OOOOOOOOOOOOOHWA ST. ANGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
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They were on Live with Jools Holland last night.
They were fucking terrible. The guitars were out of tune, they were all out of time...
This makes me :cry:
...and James Hetfield still pulls orangutan faces like its the 1980s when playing guitar solos.
This makes me :laugh:. Metallica is from the 80s. I would expect nothing less.
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To be fair, it's better than this band I heard in college that consisted of samples produced by scratching a CD and putting it in the CD-player.
I would listen to this band.
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Call him a Metallica fan?
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Man, why can't Metallica make thrash metal like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR7xBj0bDD8)?
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Do you mean: why can't Metallica realize they're no longer relevant and DIE? :laugh:
To be fair, it's better than this band I heard in college that consisted of samples produced by scratching a CD and putting it in the CD-player.
I would listen to this band.
http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:knfixqwgldhe
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Hah, I was gonna say Oval is awesome. Isn’t Aphex Twin's Selected Ambient Works II supposedly the scratched CD that was the source material?
But back on the Metallica tip, has anyone been following the mastering controversy with Death Magnetic? Apparently the CD and vinyl masters are compressed to shit, but the same songs in Guitar Hero III are mastered about 10 dB lower and have much better dynamics. Wired (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/09/does-metallicas.html) has a good article with crazy waveform pictures to show how clipped the album is.
It's amazing how these guys manage to consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They finally make what's generally considered their best album in over a decade and then essentially penalize anyone who buys it instead of downloading the superior GH3 audio rips.
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Hah, I was gonna say Oval is awesome. Isn’t Aphex Twin's Selected Ambient Works II supposedly the scratched CD that was the source material?
But back on the Metallica tip, has anyone been following the mastering controversy with Death Magnetic? Apparently the CD and vinyl masters are compressed to shit, but the same songs in Guitar Hero III are mastered about 10 dB lower and have much better dynamics. Wired (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/09/does-metallicas.html) has a good article with crazy waveform pictures to show how clipped the album is.
It's amazing how these guys manage to consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They finally make what's generally considered their best album in over a decade and then essentially penalize anyone who buys it instead of downloading the superior GH3 audio rips.
Jeez, thats ridiculous.
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i don't get why people think the drums are TUNED badly... sure, they're not the best sounding drums i've ever heard, but it's not the tuning that's the problem - they're WAY too high in the mix, and way too dry (i.e. absolutely no reverb on them). that mastering problem that's been mentioned also doesn't help, since everything's been compressed to shit, there's no dynamics range to speak of, and the drums and rhythm guitars especially suffer from clipping (distortion, in the undesirable, un-metal sense).
that said, i think the SONGS themselves are some of the best they've done in years, and the vocals are much improved, if only for the fact that hetfield's cut out that annoying "HEY-AH" cowboy twang he's been affecting for the past decade.
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I'd still rather listen to Sabbat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct-xX1UAb60&feature=related).
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i don't get why people think the drums are TUNED badly... sure, they're not the best sounding drums i've ever heard, but it's not the tuning that's the problem - they're WAY too high in the mix, and way too dry (i.e. absolutely no reverb on them)
It may be a predictable reference, but Steve Albini rarely uses reverb on anything, ever, and god-danged if he doesn't have some of the best recorded drum sounds around to his name.
It really is the tuning!
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I lose respect for musicians when they get litigious.
I lose respect for musicians when they get popular
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I lose respect for musicians when they get litigious.
I lose respect for musicians when they get popular
You just won the forum.
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i don't get why people think the drums are TUNED badly... sure, they're not the best sounding drums i've ever heard, but it's not the tuning that's the problem - they're WAY too high in the mix, and way too dry (i.e. absolutely no reverb on them)
It may be a predictable reference, but Steve Albini rarely uses reverb on anything, ever, and god-danged if he doesn't have some of the best recorded drum sounds around to his name.
It really is the tuning!
true, but i'm sure i heard that he uses delay to thicken the drum sound considerably. the drum sound he got on "in utero" is absolutely skull-fuckingly immense. lars' sound here sounds like he's really close to you in a small practice room, while the rest of the band are further away. a bit of revery (or delay) would fix it to a large extent. i'm not saying he couldn't do with a re-tune, but that's not the biggest problem there, that's all i'm saying.
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true, but i'm sure i heard that he uses delay to thicken the drum sound considerably. the drum sound he got on "in utero" is absolutely skull-fuckingly immense.
I can hear the delay too, especially on the intro to "Scentless Apprentice"
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Actually the main problem for me with the drums on Death Magnetic are (predictably) that they are just way too compressed. Particularly the snare drum, which when compressed reasonably hard can change the tone noticeably, give it a great "crack" and just generally improve it. I do it all the time. But there is a fine line to be drawn between where the tone is changed pleasingly and where it begins to get abrasive.
I'm going to guess that Lars' snare drum was compressed quite hard to begin with before getting the ole' brickwall treatment at the stereo buss with the rest of the instruments, thus crapping it up good and proper.
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Actually the main problem for me with the drums on Death Magnetic are (predictably) that they are just way too compressed. Particularly the snare drum, which when compressed reasonably hard can change the tone noticeably, give it a great "crack" and just generally improve it. I do it all the time. But there is a fine line to be drawn between where the tone is changed pleasingly and where it begins to get abrasive.
I'm going to guess that Lars' snare drum was compressed quite hard to begin with before getting the ole' brickwall treatment at the stereo buss with the rest of the instruments, thus crapping it up good and proper.
this is true, and it's laughable that a producer or sound engineer would do something so monumentally fucking stupid - i started a music tech course two years ago with absolutely no prior experience in the subject, and this was one of the first things they covered, and damn if they didn't emphasise it a LOT. i hope the studio fired whoever did this. and if it comes out that it's rick rubin's doing, maybe it'll help prove the point that the guy is hideously overrated as a producer.
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and he should be. I've downloaded "The Day That Never Comes" from ptp chat room. Heard "Cyanide" on the radio yesterday. Might just pick up the CD next payday. Real fans usually buy the cds eventually. I might even pick up "Ride the Lightning" while i'm at it. Mabey they should take a page from AC DC and market the back catalogue... cheap yes but they still get a cut.
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MY complaints with the album are more that the drums are TUNED like shit, that has NOTHING to do with Lars. That is his drum tech's fault for making it sound like shit.
If Lars can't tell his drums sound like shit when he's playing them for days on end at a studio, it's completely his fault.
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I kind of liken this album to a blowjob by a cheap hooker. It's cheap and shameless, but you're still jizzing everywhere. Production is horrible (although the guitar hero version does sound pretty good), lyrics aren't too hot, but Metallica have pandered to their fans in a massive way with all the other musical elements and damn, it works, and it works well. Sure there's no integrity to this album, but look what happened last time Metallica bared their souls to everyone! Tl;dr? I really like this album, despite it's faults. I would also say that Hetfield sounds terrific, but then again I'm a raging Hetfield fanboy.
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Oh, also, regarding the production: There's talk that it wasn't the mastering engineer's fault, and then it was all brickwalled and distorting when he got it. He's "not proud to be associated with it" or something.
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Oh, also, regarding the jizzing: While it might feel good at the time, you will assuredly feel guilty about it later. Its not something you would be "proud to be associated with".
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Well, I've never really cared about being particularly classy or well respected (as is obvious from my many posts here, :-D) so I doubt it's something that I'd worry about. But it's not the perfect metaphor, I guess.