THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: A_S00 on 03 Dec 2008, 19:24
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Contemporary Christian music tends to get a pretty bad rap among the music-geeks among the crowd I hang out with, and rightly so: A disproportionate amount of it is total crap. But one of my friends played some Superchic[k] for me the other day, and my reaction was...eh, not bad. Sounds like pop. Kinda fun. Way to mix some genres. Male/female harmonies are cool. Huh.
So, with this forum being my measurement for what the indie music scene of the world thinks of stuff, I put it to you: Is Superchic[k]:
-Unforgiveably terrible?
-Better than most Christian rock but still bad?
-Just okay?
-A good band?
-Absolutely brilliant?
For reference: Bowling Ball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L9wGPNiDxI)
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You should make a poll, and add an option that says "I want a bowling ball dropped on my head." That is what I pick. For a while, I could see this being in the soundtrack to some kind of lame chick flick/road movie hybrid (evil things. Crossroads, anyone?) right around the time the high school boyfriend of 4 years dumps the girl, and then by the 5th time or so that they repeated their chord progression (38 seconds, I think), I regretted wasting the bandwidth, clicking the link, and reading the thread.
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They sound like a poppier, Christian Paramore. Which should honestly.. be taken at face value.
Also reminiscent of Hoku (the band that wrote what became the Legally Blonde theme for those not in the know)
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I don't mind them, although I really don't like alternative holiday music.
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I always liked Superchunk.
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i'm a one girl revolutionnn.
anyone besides me remember that song? anyone?
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Wait, that was these girls?
Christ, the more you know..
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... The less you want to?
... The more vigorous the action of banging your head on a wall?
... The more you consider that those emo kids got the whole 'pain' thing right?
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dammit
emo:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YBRVXA5GL.jpg)
not emo:
(http://assets.mog.com/pictures/wikipedia/1166887/Kill_hannah_2006.jpg)
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(evil things. Crossroads, anyone?)
(http://www.ilovethe80s.com/crossroads.jpg)
?
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damn it, not this again.
emo:
(http://www.dischord.com/images.d/release/image/6587/016.jpg)
(http://www.stld.extra.hu/pics/saetia.jpg)
(http://bp3.blogger.com/_Sq2VT_pm_gw/R91L2uQ6pfI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/ekHSpE4tDdY/s320/swing+k.jpg)
the more you know!
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I feel dumber after listening to that.
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(evil things. Crossroads, anyone?)
STEVE VAI PICTURE
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God no. Bitchin' guitars are awesome. I meant the Britney Spears vehicle.
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I can not stress enough how much Superchick wants me to post angry, angry tirades about the state of the Christian music scene on a blog.
Yes, bad music makes me consider doing lame and terribly debasing things like writing whiny opinion pieces on a blog.
However, my opinion stands. Superchick are terrible
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If most Christian music is too bad to be even given a number out of 10, then Superchick is a 0.
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Guys you know what this means.
Complete has to put out a Scripture concept album.
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...
The reckoning. I fears it
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Hey guys.
I'm an avowed heretic and unbeliever and whatnot, but I'd like to point out that not all christian music sucks (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ebvUO2ucmdk&feature=related).
Just most of it.
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I don't think anyone's actually said that yet, but thanks for the link.
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that was... not very good.
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People bitching about the correct definition of emo are pretty misguided. Sure, Rites of Spring etc may be "real" emocore, but when your everyday person says emo that's almost certainly not what they're referring to. In the same way that "indie" rarely means independent nowadays. Language changes with how it's used; you don't pull up people for not using thou, or whom, so lay off the emo/not emo bullshit.
[/end rant]
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Everyday people are also often idiots, so I'll be damned before I adopt their standards lightly.
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A misnomer is a misnomer. I don't believe terms used in ignorance of their real meaning should evolve to agree with the ignorant party's definition.
The current "emo" music that is popular is essentially pop punk. Or whatever else they would like to call themselves. I don't see, however, why it's necessary to lump entirely different types of music together under an umbrella term which, in 9 cases out of 10, is incorrect anyway.
Same with indie. It used to mean something, and now it doesn't because it has been lumped together with "alternative" which covers all popular music today that isn't hip hop, R&B, classical, jazz, country, or bubble gum pop.
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Maybe i am wrong, but i was under the impression that bands like Rites of spring and such didn't like being called emo or emocore, even if they were the movement originally described in such terms. my understanding is that they saw themselves as a logical progression of punk rock and wished to be regarded as such, not a new thing altogether. I say give the bands who want to be called "emo" the term "Emo". They can have it, for all I care. It's not like it's a good genre name or anything.
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Jeremy Enigk cries every time a reporter asks him how he feels about being "the founder of emo"
Hilariously, today's "emo" bands resent the term as well. It's a classification used mostly by fans. The bands themselves prefer to be called "indie/alternative" if my little mall punk friend is any authority. Also sometimes _____core.
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Street Teamer/ Emo Bitchfest #10203993 thread is ridiculous
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It's a stupid word but it had a purpose to describe a whole bunch of American bands which had a lot in common. Some of those bands were completely brilliant. Some were good. Many were atrocious.
Essentially, as I've said at incredible length before, it was an attempt to reduce the by rote violence and blinkered lyrical perspective of the hardcore era (which was itself a strain of Punk Rock). The idea was that if the music changed, the skinheads and right-wingers would go elsewhere. On the west coast, the approach was to delve into classic rock territory (Black Flag to heavy metal, Husker Du to 60s power pop, the Minutemen to 70s funk, the Meat Puppets to bluegrass and Americana) whereas their peers on the east coast moved towards arty or distinctly heartfelt, emotional music. There's a massive difference between Rites of Spring and Minor Threat. That was a deliberate move on the part of Picciotto and co, which he'll freely admit to when asked the right question. The term Emotional Hardcore was trite but also very literal. Picciotto wrote incredibly impassioned, revelatory lyrics and he was a highly dramatic and visceral performer during Rites of Spring. In this short space of time he provided a soundtrack for that transitional period in almost every young male's life where suddenly the world seems less binary and a lot of personal and hormonal changes are taking place. It's a thoroughly confusing time and Rites of Spring reminds me of that. A lot of it seems quite ridiculous now in the same way that you tend to look back at your younger self and cringe. However, being in a rock band was a good way to externalise the frustrations and emotions of this part of your life. Personally I dealt with it by delving into alcoholism and substance abuse. I think it goes without saying that I prefer the other approach to my own.
When the 'Revolution Summer' was taking place in DC during 1984-85 (again, as I've mentioned it wasn't a literal summer) quite a few bands cottoned on to the change in dynamics introduced by bands like Rites of Spring, Gray Matter and Embrace. One of them was Brian Baker, formerly of Minor Threat. It's probably quite mean of me to say this now but Baker is a careerist musician. He likes to play music and I don't think it matters to him what particular genre of music the band he's in fits into. That's fine. Not everyone instills all of themselves into being in a band. Brian Baker formed a band called Dag Nasty in this time, from people in the surrounding DC scene. It's important to know what Brian Baker had been doing since Minor Threat broke up. Remember in the first place that Minor Threat split because the Baker wanted to move into U2 style music and Mackaye resisted. Immediately afterwards, Baker tried to start a band in this mould called the 400. This never really took off and he also spent some time playing in the Meatmen and Samhaim. Then, in response to the crossover success of emerging young bands like RHCP and the Beastie Boys, he was in a funk-rap outfit called Doggy Style. Like I said, he was interested in music as a career and he was obviously looking at different entry points to pursue his wish. When he returned from the west coast when it became clear that Doggy Style wasn't working out, he came back to DC. Things had changed. Now the popular bands who got shows and crowds were dancing to a different tune.
Thus, in the spirit of his previous musical projects, Baker decided that now he would have a band in the style of Rites of Spring. He assembled some local musicians and settled on the name Dag Nasty. Now, there are many reasons to form a band and although this is reasonably purist of me to do so, I do not think Baker's intentions were the same as say, Mackaye or Picciotto's. I think he wanted a band which had a similar sound because he wanted to get shows and appeal to the new movement's rapidly increasing fanbase. Originally, Dag Nasty had the benefit of singer Shawn Brown, whose voice and approach gave them a sense of authenticity. Alas, Baker soon forced Brown out because he didn't think his voice was melodic enough. Instead, Baker poached Dave Smalley from DYS, literally because of the latter's comparatively listener friendly vocals. Smalley only lasted one LP and was replaced again by Pete Cortner of Lunchbox, another melodic punk band. A lot of people seem to herald these two early Dag Nasty records as part and parcel of the 'Emocore' movement but I feel like this was the crucial point where the intentions of the original movement were crushed in the face of acceptability. Dag Nasty were a band created to appeal to a specific fanbase, in the same way that Doggy Style were aboard the west coast funk/rap bandwagon. It was, shall we say, a (momentarily) sound business decision as opposed to a heartfelt one.
Thus, I think we can definitely point to Dag Nasty as the turning point for the genre which became known as Emo. While a lot of groups took the template of Rites of Spring and then evolved the idea to create incredible music (Fugazi, Lungfish, Drive Like Jehu, Squirrel Bait), a lot of bands picked up on Dag Nasty's approachable, somewhat watered down and inoffensive version of the same sound. Some bands were hybrids of the two and I find a lot of those bands reasonably tolerable but there's clearly a massive, overwhelming number of groups who adopted the hallmarks and missed the point. This isn't unique to Emo, it happens with literally every subgenre. At some point people will take notice of it and attempt to co-opt the sense of authenticity to sell music as a commodity to young people. Think of every major underground trend throughout the last fifty years or so and someone has always produced a diluted, mainstream friendly version in an attempt to make money. While I personally find this highly distasteful, it's a hallmark of the capitalist society we live in. It's always going to happen, with any art movement. Someone out there is going to try to co-opt it to make money. To some folks, that is their art. I don't like it but I certainly understand it.
I know it sounds like I'm being harsh to Brian Baker but I'm really not. He had a different approach to music and that's fine. There's no reason that you shouldn't make money from your music if that's what you want to do. I think it's worth mentioning that immediately after Dag Nasty ruptured, Baker was invited back to the west coast to play in Junkyard, a blues/cock rock band with a major label deal with Geffen. Again, I'm sure with the success of all those Sunset Strip rock bands around LA at the time, this seemed like a very good career move. Personally, when I hear Dag Nasty or Junkyard, I can't really differentiate between the two groups, despite an obvious, massive difference is sound. It's mediocre music made for all the wrong reasons. Appropriately, most music which claims to be something it isn't for the sake of a quick buck is much the same. When I hear most of the supposed "Emo" music made in the past decade I think of this coda every time.
Medicore music made for all the wrong reasons.
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You're wasted on us, Tommy Dski.
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I always liked Superchunk.
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Shit that actually cleared quite a bit up.
Not wasted on me, Tommy.
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I always get a kick out of recommending recent Nick Cave to Christians.
PRAISIN' FORGOTTEN WHAT YA PRAISIN' FOR!!!!!!
All Christians should be like Nick Cave is what I'm getting at here.
EDIT: Oh, and that Bowling Ball song, or the 45 seconds of it I listened to anyway, is absolute shit.
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Re: "Bowling Ball"
Here's how you can tell that a song sucks: The first line of the chorus uses a ridiculously obvious, ham-fisted metaphor. The second line assumes you didn't understand said obvious metaphor and explicitly explains it.
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They have a song called 'Anthem'.
Next.
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They also have an anti-anorexia that some anorexics use as inspiration to starve themselves. This is proof that Superchick fans are idiots.
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They sound like a poppier, Christian Paramore. Which should honestly.. be taken at face value.
Guess what (http://www.spin.com/articles/paramore-is-a-band?page=0%2C1).
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That is quite impressive. How long did it take you to construct that thing?
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Well I would like to believe the first one but I know you too well.
Cheater.