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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: casbah on 11 Apr 2009, 01:04
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These days people seem to use the word "pop" to describe a lot of music but most of it seems unrelated or even completely wrong for the word (In my opinion).
Some of my friends say it's a word used to describe "vanilla" music, I think that it's the concept of music liked by many or a musical style that everyone finds palatable.
But what is "pop" to you?
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"Pop" is short for "popular". The real question is: how many listeners are required to make a music truly "popular"?
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same thing as indie but on the other end of the scale
(I don't know what I am talking about but then does anyone what?)
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Pop is whatever you can find in the Rock/Pop section of your preferred record store that doesn't really feel like 'rock'.
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What is art?
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Music that's not jazz or classical or musique concrete.
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What Cheggers plays.
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Music designed to sell lots?
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If you hear music, and it sounds bad, it's pop.
Unless it's from the eighties.
8-)
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but where does indie pop fit in all this shit?
independent music designed to sell uh what?
the way i see it, its just music designed to be catchy. though perhaps one would argue that catchyness = trying to sell. i would disagree.
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When I think of pop (particularly indie pop), I just think of happy music. I mean, I know that shit like Ashlee Simpson and Britney Spears label themselves pop, and I know it's short for "popular," but part of me just can't resist the feeling of carefree, fun, fast-paced music whenever I think of pop.
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but where does indie pop fit in all this shit?
Get a pop song, take all the hooks from it, make it even more banal and then change a few instruments around. Voila!
I'd define pop as "music designed for play on mainstream radio channels and/or video programs", although I know it's just an abbreviation. You can't really say catchiness is an exclusively pop quality, unless if you consider Bolt Thrower to be pop. And that would be dumb.
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Yeah the real difference between pop and rock (or now, more likely pop and hip-hop) is that unlike rock and/or hip-hop the music wasn't assembled by music corporations to sell well.
Good example of Rock v. Pop- Alice in Chains and, say, Hinder.
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Music that's not jazz or classical or musique concrete.
Or folk (traditional) music.
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When I think of pop, I think of upbeat songs with clear percussion.
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I must reiterate the point that everything that is not classically composed music or Jazz music is pop music.
Pop music all has the same form, the song.
You can't have pop music in the form of a Waltz or a Concerto.
However Avant-Garde and Experimental aren't pop music. HOWEVER Animal Collective IS pop music (I just had to make that clear, since some people seem to think they're experimental these days)
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Why? Where does this distinction come from? Can pop songs not have composed elements? Where does noise music or free-improv fit in?
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See edited version
You said it yourself, because they're all songs
Jazz has it's own separate theory, but it's basically between Pop and Classical music.
Edit: Also, calling something pop music isn't necessarily a negative thing...
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but where does indie pop fit in all this shit?
Christgau liked to call it "semi-pop". Pop music that's not popular. Like Fountains of Wayne before they released "Stacy's Mom".
You can probably narrow it down to a tempo or rhythm, like you can with many other genres, but I'm not going to be arsed to try. Most people would point to a broad accessibility that's harder to pin down.
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Pop music is a music genre that features a noticeable rhythmic element, melodies and hooks, a mainstream style and a conventional structure.
The standard format of pop music is the song, customarily less than five minutes in duration, with instrumentation that can range from an orchestra to a lone singer. Pop songs are generally marked by a consistent and noticeable rhythmic element, a mainstream style and traditional structure. Common variants are the verse-chorus form and the thirty-two-bar form, with a focus on melodies and catchy hooks, and a chorus that contrasts melodically, rhythmically and harmonically with the verse.[3] Lyrics in pop music are frequently about love, relationships and life experiences. The primary objectives of the pop music genre are audience enjoyment and commercial success.[4] This of course does not imply that those goals are achieved by every song in this genre.[5]
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To me, pop is music that is also catchy. I almost said "designed to be catchy" but that is not particularly true sometimes!
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Yeah the real difference between pop and rock (or now, more likely pop and hip-hop) is that unlike rock and/or hip-hop the music wasn't assembled by music corporations
Rock is also often assembled by corporations to sell. See: Nickelback, Creed.
I don't consider Late Nickelback or Creed rock. They're Pop rock.
Early Nickelback (like first 3 albums) was for the most part unheard of. It wasn't until Silver Side Up made them all famous and such that they started writing pop songs instead of real Grungy tunes.
And Creed may have at one point not been pop, but they also give me the willies so I don't know much about their history. (Although based on how much Scott Stapp tries to sound like Eddie Vedder, I'd guess commecial success was a goal from the get-go).
Hinder was just my extreme example since their FIRST ALBUM was crappy post-grunge style pop with lyrics more banal than your average late 80's Cock Rock group.
/rant
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Pop is essentially what you want it to be.
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When I think of pop (particularly indie pop), I just think of happy music. I mean, I know that shit like Ashlee Simpson and Britney Spears label themselves pop, and I know it's short for "popular," but part of me just can't resist the feeling of carefree, fun, fast-paced music whenever I think of pop.
This definition makes the most sense to me. Certainly, if you think of pop as its root in popular, it encompasses pretty much all music. I think that if you use that definition, you include even classical and those other genres given as exceptions. Pictures at an Exhibition was composed to be listened to. Mozart composed many of his pieces with the intent of entertaining the aristocracy. At some point, Jazz was composed just to be danced to. There are probably other examples, these are just off of the top of my head, but if you think about it, most music is made to sell well.
I think that it's more logical to just use the term pop for the musical style. Eg. what was determined to be popular at the time of the term's introduction. Which, from its use in the lexicon, I would assume to be the happy bubbly music that you would generally think of.
Besides the original reason, I think that the term encapsulates the original concept of making music with the direct intent of demographic and popular style as well. The use captures the spirit of the movement. Postmodernism isn't exactly currently transgressive, but the term is still commonly used for the its general association. I think that that's likely a part of it as well.
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Nonsense! Jazz was always an art form! ALWAYS!
But that really is an excellent point. I can't really think of any truly happy music that isn't in some way classified as pop. (Except Rush, I can't think of a happy song per se, but they don't write depressing stuff)
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You said it yourself, because they're all songs
So, where does instrumental stuff fall? Mogwai, for example. They probably have a few albums that they don't sing at all on (I am really bad at remembering that sort of thing), so they aren't songs. But then again, classical music can have vocal parts, as can jazz. Could you possibly make a bit more solid, well-defined description?
Either way, I disagree with you, using the term pop to cover everything besides jazz, classical, avant-garde, and experimental music is a really terrible idea, it's like deciding to call all non-equilateral triangles an isosceles.
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When I think of pop, I think of upbeat songs with clear percussion.
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The real question is: how many listeners are required to make a music truly "popular"?
The same amount of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop.
Pop to me is the family friendly, upbeat stuff on the radio that generally a lot of people like and this includes past decades as well as the current one.
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Either way, I disagree with you, using the term pop to cover everything besides jazz, classical, avant-garde, and experimental music is a really terrible idea, it's like deciding to call all non-equilateral triangles an isosceles.
Not really, because originally it meant 'popular,' or mainstream, which classical, avant-garde, jazz and experimental aren't, theoretically.
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The same can't be said for Avant-Garde, but Classical was all the rage from the 17th to 19th century, and Jazz was THE American popular music in the 1930s-40s.
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I think some of you are expecting too much precision from this word. "Pop" connotes a tangled web of ideas. It sometimes connotes popularity, simplicity of structure, and accessibility, but it also connotes love, sex, adolescence, commerce, consumption, mass production, and a rejection of academia and dry formalism.
If the word is worth retaining, then that's because we recognize that these ideas are connected in deep and confusing ways. If it proves useful to think of "pop" as a genre, then that's because we recognize that certain cultural artifacts are implicated in this nest of problems, and that we can help shed light on the problems along with the artifacts by thinking of them together, under a common name.
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But the words not worth retaining.
Mainly because of the sort of inredibly tedious group masturbation this thread is becoming rapidly full of.
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I'm listening to Avril Lavigne.
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I consider Paul Simon to be pop.
He's the first proof I have that pop music isn't bad music.
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i like to make a distinction between "pop" music, which is bad and wrong, and "poppy" or "poppish" music, which can be bad but isn't necessarily bad.
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I keep reading the title of this thread as, "What is poop?"
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i like to make a distinction between "pop" music, which is bad and wrong, and "poppy" or "poppish" music, which can be bad but isn't necessarily bad.
Pfft, pop isn't bad. That's like say rock music is bad and wrong, but rock-ish music may or may not be bad. It's just a wide genre, that varies from decade to decade as styles change. In the sixties, you get artists like Herman's Hermits and B.J. Thomas which, to me, are pop, and I greatly enjoy them. Look at the 70's, and two extremely solid and good albums would be Carole King's Tapestry and Paul Simon's Graceland, which are both pop music, just in different ways. Then you get the other side of the pop spectrum which would be Britney Spears and anything produced by Disney, and I just can't stand that. That's gone straight from pop music to 100% I-sold-my-soul-for-this commercialism.
I suppose a good definition of pop music would be music that is easily accessible and appeals to a wide variety of people.
I forgot the point I was trying to make.
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true. i think "contemporary pop" would have been a more apt way to put it, rather than just "pop," which is pretty unfair, admittedly.
but i don't think your rock music analogy is very fitting in this instance.
[i had a good paragraph stating why i think this but sleep-deprived and indigestion-stricken as i am right now, it didn't make much sense so i got rid of it. i'll try again later.]
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true. i think "contemporary pop" would have been a more apt way to put it, rather than just "pop," which is pretty unfair, admittedly.
but i don't think your rock music analogy is very fitting in this instance.
[i had a good paragraph stating why i think this but sleep-deprived and indigestion-stricken as i am right now, it didn't make much sense so i got rid of it. i'll try again later.]
I think it is, to be honest. Pop is a wide genre covering many different artists and sounds (from Britney Spears to Paul Simon), and rock is the same (ranging from the likes of Creedence to The Dead to Creed). Both cover a lot of fantastic sounding artists to some miserably depressing acts, and both can bleed into other genres (Country-pop or country-rock, for example).
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but rock is never rap.
pop is sometimes rap.
pop is sometimes country too.
you see where i'm going with this? pop is not so much a genre of music but an extra descripter to attach to whatever the genre may be.
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Yes, and I'm debating whether to argue with you for the sake of argument or just shrug and go, "Meh, sure."
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Didn't Harry give a definitive answer to this thread about two and a half hours after it was started?
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I can loosely use the term pop to describe anything with a verse-chorus song structure and catchy hooks. These things include:
At the Gates (Slaughter of the Soul, at least)
Joy Division
Arcturus
The Decembrists
Boris (most of Pink, at least)
etc.
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If that's the case the term is utterly meaningless.
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Meaning is dependent on context.
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not this shit
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Didn't Harry give a definitive answer to this thread about two and a half hours after it was started?
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Quit making it hard to ignore you when I'm trying to ignore you, you syphilitic, runny-nosed turd!
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pop is not so much a genre of music but an extra descripter to attach to whatever the genre may be.
YES.
Basically take MUSIC.
Add URGE TO PRANCE.
And enjoy delicious POP.
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Quit making it hard to ignore you when I'm trying to ignore you, you syphilitic, runny-nosed turd!
I'm sure you were joking here, but this statement came off pretty cuntish.
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Sorry.
I was trying to be as cuntish as possible, but in an entirely insincere manner. I don't think I could ever really say that to someone seriously.
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Um, I am confused.
For example, The Unicorns are pop, right? But they are not mainstream. And they are not particularly accessible. They do not really have a verse/chorus structure. But if they are not pop then what are they?
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Didn't Harry give a definitive answer to this thread about two and a half hours after it was started?
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Quit making it hard to ig...
Wait, nevermind.
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Didn't Harry give a definitive answer to this thread about two and a half hours after it was started?
No?
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Didn't Harry give a definitive answer to this thread about two and a half hours after it was started?
Gonna quote this til everyone shuts up forever
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It's wrong though. The amount of people who listen to it has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's pop or not. There must be millions of pop songs that no-one who isn't the guy who wrote it has heard. On the other hand there are plenty of people who listen to not-pop.
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Some pop music is popular, but not all popular music is pop.