THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Lazer on 07 Jul 2009, 02:56
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In the latest comic (1442, precisely) Will is starting to look like Marten (in the chin, jaw structure and eyes) and Penny is starting to look like Angus (eyes and nose). Please be careful about getting into habits drawing faces, or otherwise your characters will be like Animu, that is to say, totally devoid of character aside from different haircuts and outfits.
Thanks,
The Management.
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Wow...
"Hey Jeph, rabble rabble rabble you're not doing things right rabble rabble even though it's your comic and well, you spend a fuck load of time drawing this stuff for our entertainment rabble rabble rabble"
Yup... That about sums it up.
*rolls eyes*
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Sorry, I'll rephrase it in a "constructive" manner for those of you who are total pussies.
"Hey Jeph, I really like your comic (which should be totally obvious because I'm posting here in the first place) and general ass kissing aside, I've got a bit of a art crit for ya! You gotta watch out for those non-realistic faces man, or they will start to blend together! As one friendly artist to another, I recommend making a "face template" where you go through and draw the individual parts of characters in rows to where you can clearly differentiate between them. This way they all have their own personality. It takes a bit of time, but in the long run, it's totally worth it, buddy! Remember, conceptualize then draw."
There are you happy now? Jeeze.
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Do you really feel that as a kid more than ten years younger than Jeph, a highly successful web artist for quite a number of years now, it's your place to give him advice (based, it would seem, on an inability to see the distinctions in his drawings that are clearly there)?
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Sorry, I'll rephrase it in a "constructive" manner for those of you who are total pussies.
"Hey Jeph, I really like your comic (which should be totally obvious because I'm posting here in the first place) and general ass kissing aside, I've got a bit of a art crit for ya! You gotta watch out for those non-realistic faces man, or they will start to blend together! As one friendly artist to another, I recommend making a "face template" where you go through and draw the individual parts of characters in rows to where you can clearly differentiate between them. This way they all have their own personality. It takes a bit of time, but in the long run, it's totally worth it, buddy! Remember, conceptualize then draw."
There are you happy now? Jeeze.
Do you really think he cares though? I mean... Seriously... Who are you to be giving advice? He has been doing this long enough with the same characters that, well... I'm willing to sit the hell back and figure he knows how he wants HIS ART to look.
It's not about being a pussie... It's about not coming in here spouting your opinion on how JEPHS ART should look.
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Do you really feel that as a kid more than ten years younger than Jeph, a highly successful web artist for quite a number of years now, it's your place to give him advice (based, it would seem, on an inability to see the distinctions in his drawings that are clearly there)?
Or possibly it's because Jeph has admitted his art has a long way to go, and external feedback can go a long way in helping him improve?
I mean, the guy in the OP probably came off like a dick but his heart was in the right place.
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For me, it's hard to say. Jeph has at times said how he's accidentally let the art drift in directions he didn't want (making Faye too thin for a while for example), but he's also had drift just from the way his skills have advanced. I was really surprised when I saw how much the characters have changed since comic 1000. I was under a self-made mistaken impression that he had settled into the current style by then.
So as a heads up along the order of "hey Jeph, did you intend to change in this direction?" the OP makes sense. From there, it's up to Jeph to say either "oops, you're right, that's not what I intended" or "no, I'm evolving my style towards that for a reason" or even "no, it's just about how I've always had them lately and you are mistaken".
The tone though was a bit strong, to the point where I thought it was possibly one of his fellow webcomic buddies giving him a hard time. If he doesn't know Jeph, then yah, I don't think it's going to go over all that well.
In the end, it's Jeph's comic, and it will continue to evolved and change as he does.
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I mean, the guy in the OP probably came off like a dick but his heart was in the right place.
The problem is that his specific criticisms are simply wrong.
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You know, I like how offended people get when some criticizes someone else's drawings. Besides, art is a visual medium, anyone can say "Oh, that doesn't look realistic" or "Oh, that face looks the same as the other". It doesn't take an artist to see these things. And the fact that the person knows how to avoid the problem indicates that he has more experience than Jeph. So get off your high horses and learn how to deal with criticism, and constructive criticism at that!
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I mean, the guy in the OP probably came off like a dick but his heart was in the right place.
The problem is that his specific criticisms are simply wrong.
I can see where he is coming from - and you should know just as well as anybody that art is not objective, you can't just dismiss something like this as 'simply wrong'. I suppose the issue lies in that when you are constructing your characters in a semi-realistic way, unless you are either very good or spend more time than I'd assume Jeph has (what with him producing a comic daily), it becomes difficult to create serious distinctions in facial structure for each new character in a simple and minimalistic way without going down the goofy cartoon route.
But on the other hand I'm only posting here because I am bored out of my mind. I don't really know how many replies this thread warranted, but whatever that amount is, I'm sure we've exceeded it.
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okay here I'll bump it down another notch:
Jeph if you are reading this, I'll give you art lessons and you can teach me how to be better at guitar because you're way awesome at that.
basically there is nothing specifically fixable about Jeph's art style. it just needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up. much like my awful self taught guitar playing, which was formed out of bad habits and lack of someone giving me pointers.
coming from years of art experience (though I am by no means a master artist) I would say that Jeph only has a stylized notion of the human body and a slight grasp of using color theory in a efficient manor. those are some things to muse over.
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okay am I the only one here who saw the title of the thread and thought about Xibits Dawg memes?
anywho yeah man let Jeph feel his art out. Use tact. It'll get anyone far in life. Yo dawg we put tact in your tact so you can be nice when your nice. :wink:
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... Jeph's art style. it just needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.
You are making a big assumption here - that Jeph is trying to draw the way you'd like him to. Perhaps he isn't... Indeed, perhaps he's trying to enjoy himself and make a living, both of which he seems to be managing from the clues he lets out.
coming from years of art experience
Which you've told us nothing of, yet (though your age is in your profile).
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Haha, years of art experience at age 18. Yup, high school art class for a half-hour once a week really makes you seem like an expert compared to, oh, I don't know, one of the only self-sustaining full-time webcomic artists ever. You sure showed him, Lazer.
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Come on, guys, leave the kid alone. Just because he's 18 and, by definition, knows jack shit, that doesn't mean he's a bad person. It just means that he'll be kind of a dumbass for the next 6 or 7 years.
For example, he could have said something like "Hey, have you thought about using [insert thing here] for your color schemes?" or "Hey, have you read so-and-so's text on drawing the human body?" he said "Your art's bad and you should feel bad, you two-bit hack. I know you've been making a living as an artist for years now, but I took a couple of classes on art and that makes me better than you."
See? Typical dumbass kid move.
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AGAIN LET ME BUMP IT UP A NOTCH FOR YOU ALL.
here's a good overal theory tutorial: http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm
here's a good website for premade color schemes: http://www.colourlovers.com/
here's a nice picture that is an easy reference for anatomy measurements: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8190/1246817842502.jpg
here's a nice website to do speed (try for 10 seconds first, then 30, then five minutes) gesture drawings: http://www.posemaniacs.com/
when you do gesture drawings, do them on real media. a sharpie and a sketchpad or something. you won't get a real feel for it if you're using a tablet. try to get the absolute basics of the figures, their center line and then generalize their limbs. here are some tablet gesture drawings I did (http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8294/gesturedrawing.jpg), because I can't find my scanner for the life of me. they suck because of the tablet, but you get the point (speaking of which, you should buy some art pens and start doing your lines on real paper, it'll look more natural).
as for more direct pointers, qc's line work is too thick. the characters are too stiff. here's a quick and dirty redline on one but it's semi hard to see what's going on due to jeph's highly saturated colors:
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2874/qcredline.png)
you'll note that basically the heads are FAR too large for the bodies. stylized or not, it makes them all look too tall and too thin. people have well defined hips and shoulders! if he wants to move quick and stylize, the easiest thing to do is to just EMPHASIZE these things instead of meshing them into the overall body. Jeph also needs to be more conscious of perspective, lighting and pose wise. Here angus wil is in an impossible position (not to mention he looks like marten), but if his head is set lower and his shoulders set back, it just looks like he's leant over a table or whatever while sitting. a little dynamism in poses goes a long way. now that I reconsider, penny's right arm should be dropped and her hip out to the left. it'd be dynamic AND sexy, which is what jeph is ever going for by putting characters in underwear. which just btw it really seems like he loves fanservice lately. also something jeph can start doing is using variable line width: thicker lines for things that are close in the foreground or need emphasis (faces, for example), and using thinner lines on things in the background. speaking of backgrounds, using muted colors in the background will put larger emphasis on the characters in the foreground, causing them to pop out more and be more dynamic. try to use a muted base color and a muted shade, and somewhere in between the shading and base tones, throw in a more saturated color to give the colors some pop. it's a very basic way to do it but it's quick and works well. high contrast between lights and shadows is a great way to make things stand out, but that's something that you have to get a feel for through studies and can't really be considered a "pointer" as much as a "to-do."
so as you can see I clearly know what I'm talking about, because I've been doing model and color studies for a long, long time. god forbid I be 18. but I guess you're sitting too high on your high horse to let your warrior-god jeph take criticism and must find ways to pick me apart until only the vultures are left to desecrate my body.
and just to finalize the point that I know what i'm talking about and you're all being cocks, here is a quick speedpaint I once did that I still really like (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8239/skullwut.png).
edit: sorry. I just want to see jeph improve as an artist. he's been kinda stuck at a certain level of skill for a long time and it doesn't seem like anyone but himself calls him out. it's a little flustering.
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Okay, paul, you were right. Sorry.
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THREAD OF THE YEAR
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thank u lazer for the art tips :)
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Lazer gives the best protips.
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Best new avatar I have had in a while
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Okay, dude I'm not sure what you're really talking about here.
Okay, first thing that jumps out at me, you've got some lightbulb in the ceiling as the sole light source in your version, yet if you look it is clearly daylight outside the apartment. Light is coming from behind them and probably to the sides and in front as well. Also I'm not sure how you're getting the idea that making someones head look too large for their body makes people look tall and thin. The average person has about seven heads to their height, making someones head too large makes them look shorter; superman is drawn with eight or nine heads of height, for example, making his head look small and him taller. Anyway, your corrections on Jephs head sizes are wrong. You've made a classic anatomical mistake in your redline drawing, which is that you seem to be thinking of peoples hair as being part of their head, when you should be basing your proportions on their skull. If you shaved (Angus?)'s hair off his head would actually be about the same size as the head you've drawn, except not so monstrously squished and he would still have a neck. Same with (Penelope?) actually. If you shift the head you have drawn down it is the same size as Jephs. Look where the ears are. All you've down is draw out the neck and shift the waist to a weird position. If you're doing proportions off of head size the waist is a line across the top of the groin, where the legs meet the abdomen, rather than the thinnest point in the torso. Finally your point about line weights is a matter of style. Jeph could well be taking tips from one of the greatest comics artists of all time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_claire).
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At the risk of revealing that I actually regularly read the comics, that's Wil, not Angus.
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Khar your point about Hergé is a little moot because as you can see, the only acceptable style of drawing is realistic. Tintin's hair? Not very realistic. Obviously Hergé did something wrong.
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I would die laughing if it turned out to be Jeph pointing out things he -knows- he dosen't like about his style, just to see all of your reactions to someone critiquing his stuff.
That is all.
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Khar your point about Hergé is a little moot because as you can see, the only acceptable style of drawing is realistic. Tintin's hair? Not very realistic. Obviously Hergé did something wrong.
Stop acting sarcastic and smug, because Hergé's style wasn't MEANT to be realistic, whereas Jeph's obviously is.
You cannot have a slice of life comic and have it not be realistic, that's just stupid and it doesn't fit.
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stuff
I am aware there could be multiple light sources. point is there isn't a clearly defined one in jeph's drawing. it's all kinda wherever the place.
I am aware my redlines aren't perfect, they were done in moments but the main things fixed were squished necks, the head is indeed smaller, arms corrected, and shoulders/body broadened. I still have a long way to go on anatomy myself. point is is that jeph's characters just look awkward most of the time.
moreover, "Ligne claire" should obviously only be used by people who are really, really good. otherwise what you're drawing will have no focus and look like ten piles of ass dick.
Khar your point about Hergé is a little moot because as you can see, the only acceptable style of drawing is realistic. Tintin's hair? Not very realistic. Obviously Hergé did something wrong.
you can't stylize efficiently until you learn the basics.
again, you're just picking me apart because I am critiquing your warrior-god jeph. I've brought up legitimate problems and you're defending him with excuses. you know who else did that? John Romero. daikatana was not good, but back then he claimed he "made it that way on purpose."
you are all turning it into a case of "I'm right and you're wrong" instead of "hey jeph can improve in a lot of ways, yes?" knock it off.
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you can't stylize efficiently until you learn the basics.
You do have a point there, in that Jeph's proportions can be off (Although your corrections are not necessarily correct), but I remember he has acknowledged that in the past. He has taken classes, I believe, and improved. In fact, there was someone on the SomethingAwful forums (I think it was there?) who did redline drawings of Jeph's comics a year or two ago who said similar things to you, except I think she was a professional or something (she also critiqued other artists too and supposedly worked for Disney a long time ago if I am remembering correctly). Essentially similar comments and drawings were made, as well as similar responses (except the thick lines issue didn't come up because, well, that's style)
EDIT: I remembered it was actually a blog or something, not the SA forums.
Basically my point is you really aren't saying anything Jeph hasn't heard already and either dismissed as unimportant to him, or is attempting to work on. You can keep on trying, but I'm willing to bet quite a lot that anything you try and say will either have already been brought to his attention, or be subjective.
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want to know what I wish?
I wish he didn't update nightly. I wish he updated monday, wednesday and friday. then what time he would normally spend to work on a comic per night, he can spend into one comic every two or three days. the extra time spent on it would really show through in my opinion.
that'd be rad.
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Dude, I'm pretty sure Khar doesn't even read the comic anymore. It was linked in chat and he disagreed with your opinions.
No-one is saying that Jeph's art is perfect, it's just that your suggestions were not good ones.
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you'll note that basically the heads are FAR too large for the bodies. stylized or not, it makes them all look too tall and too thin. people have well defined hips and shoulders! if he wants to move quick and stylize, the easiest thing to do is to just EMPHASIZE these things instead of meshing them into the overall body. Jeph also needs to be more conscious of perspective, lighting and pose wise. Here angus wil is in an impossible position (not to mention he looks like marten), but if his head is set lower and his shoulders set back, it just looks like he's leant over a table or whatever while sitting. a little dynamism in poses goes a long way. now that I reconsider, penny's right arm should be dropped and her hip out to the left. it'd be dynamic AND sexy, which is what jeph is ever going for by putting characters in underwear. which just btw it really seems like he loves fanservice lately. also something jeph can start doing is using variable line width: thicker lines for things that are close in the foreground or need emphasis (faces, for example), and using thinner lines on things in the background. speaking of backgrounds, using muted colors in the background will put larger emphasis on the characters in the foreground, causing them to pop out more and be more dynamic. try to use a muted base color and a muted shade, and somewhere in between the shading and base tones, throw in a more saturated color to give the colors some pop. it's a very basic way to do it but it's quick and works well. high contrast between lights and shadows is a great way to make things stand out, but that's something that you have to get a feel for through studies and can't really be considered a "pointer" as much as a "to-do."
so as you can see I clearly know what I'm talking about, because I've been doing model and color studies for a long, long time. god forbid I be 18. but I guess you're sitting too high on your high horse to let your warrior-god jeph take criticism and must find ways to pick me apart until only the vultures are left to desecrate my body.
and just to finalize the point that I know what i'm talking about and you're all being cocks, here is a quick speedpaint I once did that I still really like (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8239/skullwut.png).
edit: sorry. I just want to see jeph improve as an artist. he's been kinda stuck at a certain level of skill for a long time and it doesn't seem like anyone but himself calls him out. it's a little flustering.
Yeah... I'ma call bullshit on this one.
1) Jeph is drawing not a real life study but a cartoon. In point of fact, it is deliberately cartoonish. Go ahead and do a study on any cartoon you care to name, the character's heads are big. It's always been a part of the comic that it wasn't realistic, but a specific style. It's a cartoon, slice-of-life, romantic comedy comic srip.
2) The hip thing. Specifically, this hip thing.
penny's right arm should be dropped and her hip out to the left. it'd be dynamic AND sexy,
You're thinking models. Specifically, underwear models. Specifically, women paid to stand in very uncomfortable positions so that it looks "dynamic AND sexy", whereas Penny is a normal woman who is probably a little tired and a touch sore and not so inclined to strike an awkward pose.
Ironic, given that, unlike other comics out there, Jeph's drawing style isn't hyper-realistic. He's actually put her in a fairly normal pose. What a douche.
3) I stand by my statements that you're 18. And therefor approached this all the wrong way. Buck up; we were all there and we all (well, Khar and me not so much) turned out okay. Just learn from situations like this that you don't actually know as much as you think you do and when you think you have something to say is the best time to shut up.
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I've brought up legitimate problems and you're defending him with excuses. you know who else did that? John Romero. daikatana was not good, but back then he claimed he "made it that way on purpose."
brotip: if he's going to fanservice his characters around in their undies, they should look sexy.
Khar has given legitimate, respectable responses and humbled me a fair bit. you're just talking out of your anus and harping on the fact you're older than me. good work!
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Jeph? Fanservice?
What?
If that was the case he'd have put out a Hantai makeout session to appease half of these goddamn forumites.
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I think Lazer is right.
Here is a quick speedpaint I did to illustrate his point:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/teresias216/skulltopussssss.jpg)
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wow Tyler, I just did a quick speedpaint as well!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Lapuz/drawings/skulltopus.jpg)
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if you liked it, you should have put a © on it
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/skulltopuss.jpg)
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ALL HAIL THE SKULLTOPUS!
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Lazer, after looking through your DA account I can see that you are truly a genius of the modern art age.
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Wouldn't fanservice have kept her underwear showing all through the strip, or displayed some cleavage, or put her in a thong?
As it was, the sequence was a progression that paralleled the dialog. As things got worse and the afterglow faded, less and less of Pennelope showed until in the penultimate panel there was barely anything below the armpits.
First panel, she's dressed like a lover: last panel, without stopping to change clothes, she appears as though she were fully dressed.
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fine. I yield.
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4321/asssecks.png)
CONGRATS.
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With that talent, under other circumstances you could be the next Gilead.
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The heads on your stick figures are too big.
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let's all get a drinking problem + collectively shit ourselves and record it onto youtube as a mashup
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(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/muccapirata/skulloctopus.png)
<3
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yo jeph: draw a skulltopus. i bet it'll be dope
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Make sure the lines are thin enough though, you don't want the skulltopus to be stiff.
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I want a skulltopus t-shirt!
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(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5773/lolwatl.png)
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Make sure the lines are thin enough though, you don't want the skulltopus to be stiff.
My skulltopus made your MOM stiff.
Wait... I think I had that backwards. Your mom made my skulltopus stiff.
I stiffed your mom's skulltopus?
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Look guys, to be fair, there are issues with Jeph's art. The characters do have a lot of similarities, the poses can be awkward and kinda stiff, and his proportions are off sometimes. You can't really deny this, and Jeph himself knows he has issues he needs to work on (hence why he does things like goes out and buys anatomy books). Don't really dismiss this guy and shoot him down because he brought up this, because he has a point that Jeph needs to fix some things.
However, the tone in all of Lazer's posts has been kinda arrogant/dismissive. Khar did it the right way, pointing out where Lazers was wrong in his advice, and didn't make any snide comments while doing so. I admit that I jumped on the bandwagon a little, but hey, nobody's perfect, and I am not going to defend my behaviour.
Lazer, there is nothing wrong with you wanting Jeph to improve, but making a thread saying "hey dude, you're doing this wrong. Fix it." was probably not the best way to go about it, as you may have noticed.
Oh hey, you posted while I was defending you, basically making me look silly for doing so. Good to see you're being mature about all this!
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Oh hey, you posted while I was defending you, basically making me look silly for doing so. Good to see you're being mature about all this!
I'd say I'm being pretty good humored about it, considering the nature of the whole thing.
I could just call you all faggots and storm off the internet.
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(http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af86/107569/skulltopuscopy-1.jpg)
We should critique the skulltopuses! Redline drawings and such.
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I do love that overkill image though
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skulltopuss
We should critique the skulltopuses! Redline drawings and such.
either turn up the flow on your black brush or use a sumi-e simulated brush for the black and you'd have my favorite one.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/KharBevNor/skulltopus-1.jpg)
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close enough.
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Although I think I've missed the actual discussion I know I've heard Jeph mention before that he knows sometimes his characters can look too similar, facially. From what I've seen he's improved greatly in this area with only the odd relapse. Mostly with the male characters now. The OP might have had good intentions but it's nothing Jeph doesn't know about already and, as other people have discussed, the tone is a bit off.
Marigold is a good example of how different his characters can look these days. Even without her long hair she clearly looks very distinctive in her facial features. I think in time the characters will grow more distinct, which will be a great improvement for the comic, visually. The rest of the art discussion flies over my head, as someone who can barely draw a circle.
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Aren't most of the people in Questionable Content indie kids?
If so, I mean, come on, they all look alike.
EDIT: Skulltopus
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/r3an1m4t3d/oktoskull.jpg)
Acrylic and Ink on chipotle napkin.
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(http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs41/f/2009/018/a/c/LINKWAT_by_Lazerdix.jpg)
lulz
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believe me I hate that piece of shit.
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That is probably the worst skulltopus picture ever, Tom. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Maybe Link is killing Gold Skulltupuses to free a curséd family?
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Man, fuck Link.
There. I said it.
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Man, Tom is using the same skulltopus picture as me, and has almost the same text underneath. Confusing!
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You make me sad, Ben. Sadface.
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I think this thread has ran it's course. (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7045/cocktopus.png) (hint: that image is probably not work safe.)
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Do you really think he cares though?
He sometimes makes comments that indicate to me that he obsesses over his drawing skills more than the vast majority of the audience does.
But that's all the more reason to just stay quiet.
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I think this thread has ran it's course. (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7045/cocktopus.png) (hint: that image is probably not work safe.)
You sure have a thing for drawing penises don't you?
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Skulltopus in video games
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/skultros-1.gif)
alternate title: skultros
(driving memes into the ground since 2007)
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harping on the fact you're older than me. good work!
Dude, I'm 18 too and I normally argue with the "you're young; that explains everything!" comments. But the simple fact remains that CONCRIT: UR DOIN IT WRONG.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/sazziexx/skulltopus.jpg)
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I think this thread has ran it's course. (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7045/cocktopus.png) (hint: that image is probably not work safe.)
This thing only has 6 legs.
What the fuck.
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Dude mine only had four and a half.
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The style of that 'overkill' drawing and the other one is vaguely familiar
Also I want a 'book splosion' t-shirt
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(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj156/Sneakers_King/skulltopi-1.jpg)
Guys, the dude's critique and shit isn't perfect but some of it is pretty good advice let's lay off the lout and just like..Oh I don't know I didn't want to draw the damn thing fuck you Jordan. (totally gave up really early on)
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Guys Jeph is not a very good artist. No one has ever read QC for the art. I think he peaked about when Faye wore that yellow dress and everyone had really round faces, and whatever.
However, he is a totally rad dude.
And Lazer, you should get out of general discussion as soon as possible. This place is for fucking idiots. Come down to the off topic forums, and keep making a lot of jokes about dicks, and I think you are pretty much 100% guaranteed to be the best new boarder. Dollface is getting stale.
Cuz like seriously, this is awesome.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7045/cocktopus.png)
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(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/ddovey/octeleton.jpg)
doin it rite?
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Goddamn David I am dying here now
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Oh hey I really liked Lazer when he first joined too, rad!
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Yeah i don't use these forums and don't know what you guys are talking about, but here's another thing I noticed could be improved.
QC's semi-realistic art is nice compared to the stick figures of some other good comics, but Jeph's perspective feels off to me a lot of the time. I hate perspective and this is a pot-calling-a-kettle kind of thing, but I tried to figure out what bugged me about Friday's comic, and, well:
(http://j.photos.cx/1445-1c6.png)
Vanishing point is fine. Door and Angus's legs are rather... long. Also, the wall is really thin.
Guys Jeph is not a very good artist. No one has ever read QC for the art. I think he peaked about when Faye wore that yellow dress and everyone had really round faces, and whatever.
If someone's art could be better, isn't that the reason to critique it? Unless you were responding to the guys viciously defending him and his glorious vision from any criticism, in which case carry on.
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If you look at photos taken with an ultra-wide-angle rectilinear lens, you see just that kind of effect. It seems wrong, because in real life our brains are continually processing the image into a scene rather than just showing us the view, but putting it on paper can bypass that processing and so generate the wrong impression. The answer is that art may need to apply some processing rather than be literally correct.
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Or, more to the point - vanishing point perspective doesn't actually work - if it did, then as you look down (standing on e.g. a sidewalk) you would just see the sidewalk tiles getting wider and wider to infinity, rather than eventually appearing as parallel and then going closer together in the other direction as you continue to turn to eventually look behind you.
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If someone's art could be better, isn't that the reason to critique it? Unless you were responding to the guys viciously defending him and his glorious vision from any criticism, in which case carry on.
Obviously I can't speak for Jeph, but when I want criticism I ask for it, from people I actually know and whose opinion I have respect for. Unsolicited artistic advice from strangers is something I find almost completely useless, and when that advice is given in a public setting like this I see it as being ego-driven rather than a result of benevolence.
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Oh man. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly2jNr1_nro)
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If someone's art could be better, isn't that the reason to critique it? Unless you were responding to the guys viciously defending him and his glorious vision from any criticism, in which case carry on.
Obviously I can't speak for Jeph, but when I want criticism I ask for it, from people I actually know and whose opinion I have respect for. Unsolicited artistic advice from strangers is something I find almost completely useless, and when that advice is given in a public setting like this I see it as being ego-driven rather than a result of benevolence.
Ignoring all negative comments from the people you share your work with is a bit insular, isn't it? If he were to look at my post, I don't see any reason to dismiss it just because it's from a stranger. It's pretty straightforward that there are mistakes going on in that case, and ignoring all remarks from anyone but your (likely biased) friends won't get your art too far. I understand the whole "it's his work, let him do it" mantra but I don't think the guy's satisfied with it yet, from his notes and twits and whatnot. If he knew about the mistake and didn't feel like working on it, that's fine by me.
As for it being ego-driven, I'd say the OP, sure, but if I cared I would actually post in these forums.
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Oh man. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly2jNr1_nro)
I want this as my avatar so hard
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=D
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Or, more to the point - vanishing point perspective doesn't actually work - if it did, then as you look down (standing on e.g. a sidewalk) you would just see the sidewalk tiles getting wider and wider to infinity, rather than eventually appearing as parallel and then going closer together in the other direction as you continue to turn to eventually look behind you.
I don't think you understand perspective!
Because vanishing points most definitely do work.
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I don't think you understand perspective!
Because vanishing points most definitely do work.
No they don't. They are an _approximation_ and you can't go arbitrarily far outside the frame (as xroot did) and have it still work.
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No they don't. They are an _approximation_ and you can't go arbitrarily far outside the frame (as xroot did) and have it still work.
Of course you can't go right outside the frame, as they are only designed to simulate the effects of perspective within a human viewpoint - if you could see in an 180 degree viewpoint it wouldn't work, but it works when it is used within a realistic frame.
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That was my point.
We're in agreement...
So, uh... we seem to have entered the awkwardness zone.
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Purple camel?
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I think the art in latest comic (1457) looks really great. Comic Con always seems to have that effect, but this time in particular. Better proportions, better shadows, more natural poses, just good stuff.