THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Aug 2010, 18:22
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Can Faye get better fast enough to sustain a relationship?
Will Angus lose interest after she gets better because he's stuck on Dysfunctional Faye?
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Yes.
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Of course.
Maybe
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The Magic 8 Ball says, "Answer Hazy Try Again".
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I almost went for the "Faye Sabotages It" choice, but I think that Faye is going to try to sabotage it.
Angus is persistent and stubborn enough to sap the saboteur!
I think this could potentially work. He could be very good for her by providing relentless stability.
Something she lost with her father.
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I have no problem seeing anyone attracted to Faye. She's spunky and sassy and witty and curvy.
I had no problem seeing what Faye liked in Marten. He's loyal and patient and bright and treated her like a goddamned queen. And I had no problem seeing what Faye found attractive in Sven. There was spirited give-and-take from someone who could call her on her bullshit and vice versa. (Plus the sex appeal that apparently emanates from him, even when he doesn't want it to.)
But Angus? As far as I can tell, he's just a pre-existing male character who was available and unentangled. So far as I can tell, his chief selling points are that he's an okay guy who is attracted to her and is unthreatening. He's Marten II: The Rushed-To-Theaters Sequel. He's been in, or been referred to in, 120-130 strips now and yet we know little about him, and what little we do know has been thoroughly boring. (Compare this to his recently introduced roommate, Marigold, who is one of the breakout stars of the strip.)
To sum up, Angus brings nothing to the table. But if you don't believe me, I have a reading list for you.
(Page numbers in parentheses are when Angus is off-screen, but being mentioned.)
Maybe-Angus?:
375, 710
Early Angus:
767, (769), 779-780, 783-784, (785), (790), 853, (854), 898-900, 1121-1124, (1144)
Current Angus:
1363, 1368-1369, 1371, 1373, 1384-1391 (1390), 1393, (1394), 1410, 1419, 1422-1423, 1425-1429, (1431), 1441, (1444), 1445, 1448, 1471, 1475-1476, 1487, 1491, 1494-1495, 1501-1502, 1504-1505, 1531, 1533-1536, 1558-1560, (1561), (1563-1564), (1571), 1573, 1583, 1590, 1597-1601, 1613, 1615, 1617, 1621, 1623-1637 (1627) (1629), (1639), 1642, 1663-1665, (1667), (1669), 1673, 1675-1687, 1689-1693, 1702, (1703-1704), 1723-1725, 1731-1735.
If anyone is enterprising enough to use this data to make a link list, more power to you.
P.S., considering what we now know about Angus's "housemates", 1363 seems to be some sort of continuity error.
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1363 seems to be some sort of continuity error.
"Continuity error" ... I love that phrase; it suggests flagrant cause/effect disparities, unacceptable distortions in the space-time continuum; the breakdown of reality as we've known and loved it.*
In support of your theory, Jeph's note below 1363 includes:
"I am completely exhausted and this has been an awful week so apologies if the comic is not up to usual standards. I am too tired to be certain."
* such as: the Republican propaganda machine's SUCCESS in blaming Obama for our poverty, after Bush's 8 years of robbing us blind.
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I disagree, bunnyThor.
We know about as much about Angus as we know about Wil, Penny, or, honestly, about Marigold.
Things we know:
His occupation
His ability to think fast, even in distress (the Poe-bathroom ref)
He's persistent, and backs it up by…
Taking risks
He's pretty even-tempered (good quality for a straw-man) but…
He's very hard on himself, and tends to lash out at such times.
He's good at catching onto verbal nuance, but tends to focus on the words themselves and not the person.
Non-verbal cues often fly right over his head.
He cares about other people and is willing to stand up for them, even at personal cost
I'm not going to make an exhaustive list, but I can come up with a couple of differences between Martin and Angus without really trying
Marten sucks at risk-taking.
He seems much more passive.
Marten is rarely all that hard on himself (to be fair, he's the same as for others)
I'm willing to bet Marten is much less 'shockable' than Angus, due to his upbringing.
Edit: Was in a nasty mood this morning. No need to carry it here, though.
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I see them staying together for the long term. They have the same sense of humour so that's going to help bind them.
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I see them staying together for the long term. They have the same sense of humour so that's going to help bind them.
They better have a great sense of humor, because when Faye discovers that Angus doesn't have the supernatural ladypart pleasing powers as Sven did, they'll have to either laugh or cry.
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Threesome with Marten to help him get over stuff.
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(moderator)Stop.(/moderator)
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while I personally feel that it is impossible to tell, the idea of Angus leaving her once she's better intrigues me. He very well could be attracted to messed up women, like those women who intentionally try to "cure" alcoholics because it makes them feel needed, but leave once the alcoholic is "better". However, he doesn't truly seem like the type. But then again, I never would have predicted the breakup either.
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There's a pretty good case to be made that he's attracted to messed-up women, if we can extrapolate from two data points (Faye and his ex).
It's remarkable how little we know about him, though.
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Well, this relationship is certainly a good way to find out more about the guy, don't you think? I wouldn't say he's attracted to "messed-up women" per se; Faye is much healthier than when Angus was first introduced as Argument Guy, yet he's held the attraction the entire time. I don't think her mental health is what attracted him to Faye in the first place, but I'm ready to be proven wrong.
I kinda see what Faye sees in Angus; he's a nice guy without being too overbearing about it like Marten was and he isn't completely obnoxious like Sven often was. I say "completely" like that because Angus does have a slight tendency to run his mouth a bit, but he's good at smoothing over mistakes in conversation and steering it in the right direction. Say what you like about the guy, but the confidence he displays attracts a lot of women. He's the sort of guy I would've dated back before I started batting for the other side. :)
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I think that the relationship can work, and I really hope that it helps expand Angus as a full character. We need to know more about what he does outside of work and his moments with Faye and Marigold. (i.e. interacting with more characters) I definately want him to run into Sven one day, curious as to how he'd handle that.
IF the relationship were to end, I could see it being something like Angus moving for a new job or something, but I don't want to start writing fanfiction here so I'll leave it at that.
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I agree with BunnyThor. Angus as a character is completely uninteresting and underdeveloped. It doesn't really make any sense for Faye to be interested in him, and if the comic were proceeding logically I'd expect her to see that. As it is, I expect them to stay together for a very long time. There isn't a reason; there doesn't need to be. It's just been thrust upon them. They will enjoy a kind of artificial happiness for some considerable time. Monday's comic shows that they are getting along nicely.
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I do wonder whether Faye is likely to make a lot more progress with her issues which will lead her to want to make up for some lost time in dating.
That isn't to suggest that she is "settling" for Angus or there is anyone better for her, but human curiosity might kick in and Faye hasn't always been the most pragmatic of characters.
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Well. I'm not gonna give my avatar a goofy wide grin, 'cause I can't draw worth shit. :-D
I think that at this point we have seen about as much of Angus (if not more?) as we had of Sven by the time he hooked up with Faye. So I disagree with bunnyThor. If I had to nominate the least developed male character I would point at Steve. His air time has mostly consisted of making the contrast between his mildly stereotypical machismo and Marten's nice guy door mat easygoing dude act clearer. A good friend to Marten, an ok guy, but somewhat one-dimensional. Hmm? May be Wil is even closer to being a caricature as opposed to a character? May be I am unduly harsh on Steve?
It is true that we haven't seen Angus interact much with the rest of the gang. I hope that will change. Angus isn't Sven, he isn't Marten, and it is up to Goldilock to select a bowl of porridge (or go back to having toast for breakfast).
I don't know, if Faye & Angus' relationship will be "for keeps", "another step in Faye's healing process" or something in between. I'm just sooooo relieved to see Faye happy for a change. Hopefully it lasts, but if the paddle steamer goes down the Niagara Falls, they will survive. I wish them the best of luck, and I'm gonna watch the story unfold as Jeph sees fit.
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May be I am unduly harsh on Steve?
I certainly don't think so. Steve is far less of a developed character than Angus. We know a little about Angus, though not nearly enough. Just because Steve and Will are both under-developed doesn't mean Angus is well developed enough to make sense as a pairing for Faye though. I still agree with BunnyThor's main point which is that Angus was paired with Faye because Angus was available and Jeph wanted to pair off Faye.
After all, he's been pretty direct about his Ship Sinking agenda lately.
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Angus has "met" Sven (at the Speed Beer party a few years ago). He offered to peg him in the head with a snowball.
And as for "long term" - considering that Jeph didn't keep Marty and Dora together long term, I don't think he's going to do it with Faye and Angus.
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(moderator)Stop.(/moderator)
I'm not sure if you actually took that seriously or if you're saying that's not something you even joke about, because other people on the internet are weird as fuck and would take it seriously.
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Have you read the sticky thread "Conduct in this forum"? The reason we are sensitive about this sort of thing is spelt out in there. There is also useful stuff in the "Welcome" thread of this forum, and the main forum rules in the "Hi I'm New" forum.
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we are sensitive
Ok.
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we are sensitive
Ok.
Or rather, we are sensitive to the fact that this forum can devolve into a seething mass of anger, hatred and insults very quickly, point in fact, the WCDT thread during the break up back in November, which was shutdown, due to it breaking down into a trolling session. Even Jeph commented on us getting a WCDT closed, thats how bad it was, and rightly so. No one wants to see their work being picked apart in minutiae, with an unhealthy dose of shipping.
Back to the topic on hand, specifically about Angus being an underdeveloped character, the same could be said of almost everyone in the cast, bar two or three of the main cast. How much do we really know about any given character? Take Marten before the comic started for example, we know he had at least 5 girlfriends before Dora, studied music in college, his parents divorced before he was 10, his mother is a world famous fetish model, his father is gay, and a night club owner. But besides those facts, and the characterisation we've seen in the comic, what else do we know about Marten? Whether or not someone is developed is a matter of perspective, we know only marginally more about Marten than we do about Angus, but it only seems as though we know more because Marten has been around since the beginning. I mean, we know more about Angus' education, his ambitions and his drive than we know about Marten's. As it is, Angus is fast becoming one of the most developed characters in the comic.
That or the future is a blank page, and we're all waiting for Jeph to draw it.
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Developing characters in a few panels a day is a hard problem. Agreed that we don't have detailed pictures of any of them, but Jeph does do better than most other web comics I've seen.
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...doesn't mean Angus is well developed enough to make sense as a pairing for Faye though.
I don't see how the level to which a character is developed has anything to do with whether he/she is a good match for another character. Presumably, (in universe) all characters are equally well developed, just we know less about some of them. By that I mean, if we suspend disbelief and pretend the characters are "real people", our knowledge of their qualities has little or no bearing on the potential existence of those qualities. Like in Real Life, people you know aren't any more or less "real" than people you don't. And even if Faye and Angus don't know each other that well, that reflects real life too. In my experience, people are equally or more likely to start dating people they have recently met than people they have known for a long time. I met my wife on a blind date. (not that that has any relevance.
I'm glad Faye found a nice guy who's still assertive enough to deal with her.
*EDIT* I think I may have gotten a bit off topic. I predicct Faye and Angus will stay together for at least three months of "real time" -- the difference betwee RT and QCT has bee discussed plenty elsewhere, but i'll say it does confuse the issue of LTR/not LTR. In QC time, the consensus seems to be that Marten/Dora was not a LTR, but in real time it seemed like forever. (Not so much to me, since I only discovered QC two months ago and did an archive binge...) :-P
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No one wants to see their work being picked apart in minutiae, with an unhealthy dose of shipping.
Wat? :?
For an artist to have their work dissected, analyzed, critiqued, and used as a springboard to others' flights of fancy is one of the highest compliments possible. It means that the audience has noted the artist's work, and that they find it compelling and important.
If the artist doesn't want that, that means that they should avoid showing their work to an outside audience. Some would argue that if no one but the artist reacts to the work, then it isn't art in the first place.
Jeph may not relish every aspect of the audience's reaction to his offerings, but I imagine that is still preferable to complete indifference.
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Yeah well Jeph has made it entirely clear that he finds speculation about improbable relationships distasteful. Which is interesting because that's sort of how I'd describe the comic.
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I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other. Amazing how much mileage that gets one in a relationship! And how little mileage not being honest gets one.
As to the people saying Angus is not developed and is like a Marten shadow-clone: oh, really? Try harder. :wink: We don't know as much about Angus' life and family as we do Marten's, but we've had a very good glimpse into what I'd call his "soul"; he's not like Marten except on the superficial level of them both being gentlemen. As the good raoullefere pointed out, Marten is passive to a fault, and tends to go with the flow of things; Angus is much more assertive, sharper-tongued, and generally extroverted. Where Marten is a muisician, Angus is a politician and orator, thousands of times more effective in the use of words than Mr. Reed. I actually think Angus is a little smarter than Marty, from an intellectual standpoint, but that may just be me.
If he's anything, he's a hybrid of Marten and Sven's best qualities, and as such pretty ideal for Ms. Whitaker. He won me over when he was willing to accept everything about Faye, including that she might not be ready for a relationship, just because he found her so fascinating and such an awesome lady that he couldn't help but be in love with her.
I can understand why some people might not want to see him court and win, but those people need to deal with it, because he's not going away anytime soon, and thank goodness, because contrary to popular belief, shipping is really fuckin' annoying, and not just to the author. I can understand why people might not want to see Faye in a relationship, either, but you know what? These characters do change over time, and Faye's really been making strides. She's no longer defined simply by her father's death. This isn't to say it'll never be a problem again, but it's not such a problem that she can't share herself with someone else. And I would go so far as to say that Angus might well help her with her abandonment issues, to boot.
Angus isn't a placeholder, he's a major character, and huzzah for it, frankly. I like the boy.
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The real question isn't "Faye and Angus: LTR?" it's "Faye and Angus: OTP?"
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If he's anything, he's a hybrid of Marten and Sven's best qualities, and as such pretty ideal for Ms. Whitaker.
Insightful!
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Heh, I smell a bunnythor retort a'brewin'. I would tend to agree that Angus represents that positive hybridity (though also an increased tendency for foot-in-mouthiness).
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I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other.
Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.
Yeah well Jeph has made it entirely clear that he finds speculation about improbable relationships distasteful. Which is interesting because that's sort of how I'd describe the comic.
Right. It's sort of 90% of the comic. If we are not supposed to talk about that, why even have a discussion forum? There's only so many things you can say about AnthroPCs.
Heh, I smell a bunnythor retort a'brewin'. I would tend to agree that Angus represents that positive hybridity (though also an increased tendency for foot-in-mouthiness).
I'll make a proper retort as soon as someone can tell me which of Sven's best qualities Angus supposedly has. The only one I can think of is "doesn't get hurt when thrown across room".
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I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other.
Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.
Would have worked fine if he didn't put his penis in another woman. And that boundary was firmly set by her.
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why even have a discussion forum?
Jeph has made it clear (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25614.msg992602.html#msg992602) how he views the forum. Read the thread leading up to that post for the fuller discussion (and there is no need to repeat that discussion here).
The moderators have no contact with Jeph, but are trying to keep this forum operating in a manner that will not cause him to close it. I can assure you that closure has been discussed more than once in the last couple of years; stage one was when he moved the link to the forum from the top menu of the QC site to the bottom of a sidebar on one page only.
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For an artist to have their work dissected, analyzed, critiqued, and used as a springboard to others' flights of fancy is one of the highest compliments possible. It means that the audience has noted the artist's work, and that they find it compelling and important.
If the artist doesn't want that, that means that they should avoid showing their work to an outside audience. Some would argue that if no one but the artist reacts to the work, then it isn't art in the first place.
Jeph may not relish every aspect of the audience's reaction to his offerings, but I imagine that is still preferable to complete indifference.
History is rife with artists, authors, musicians and other creatives who have held a view on how their work should be viewed. No shortage of which consider appreciation in it's original form to be the highest compliment possible and have suggested that mimicry, adaptation, bastardisation and variation do not serve to complement but instead weakens and detracts from the original work.
Whether such a view detracts from their abilities may be subject to debate, but that really only serves to illustrate that there is no single definitive opinion.
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why even have a discussion forum?
Jeph has made it clear (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25614.msg992602.html#msg992602) how he views the forum. Read the thread leading up to that post for the fuller discussion (and there is no need to repeat that discussion here).
The moderators have no contact with Jeph, but are trying to keep this forum operating in a manner that will not cause him to close it. I can assure you that closure has been discussed more than once in the last couple of years; stage one was when he moved the link to the forum from the top menu of the QC site to the bottom of a sidebar on one page only.
Well then, guys, I'll just have to wish you mods luck in what has to be one of the most thankless jobs out there. Between the author who thinks that 99% of what goes on in forums is stupid and wrong, and the forum guests who expect to act like they act in any other forum, you guys have to do quite the dance to keep this place bearable by both parties, knowing that it takes only one egregious kerfuffle to shut down the whole enterprise. Honestly, I'm surprised it has lasted this long.
In cases like this (and there are a few) where the artist prefers to keep the fans at one more stage of remove, it would be nice if there were forums for webcomics that didn't have/want artist moderation or any official attachment. In the 80s and the 90s, this need would've been fulfilled with USENET and the creation of the alt.comics.questionable-content. Sadly, USENET is all but dead now, so the only real hope would be to have one of those legacy forums, like certain comics who still keep their old KeenSpot forums, in addition to their newer official forums. Maybe he could secure a forum space in the old Dumbrella boards for a forum that is about his work, yet not his responsibility to oversee. Someone's got to have spare server capacity for this sticky blob of shipping and spec.
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forum guests who expect to act like they act in any other forum
There seem to be plenty of people who don't want to treat forums the way that you suggest is usual, and I've had messages of support from some. We are happy to welcome anyone who is prepared to fit in; and my feeling is that the current traffic level is a fair bit higher than it was last summer (this is, of course, partly because forum registration was broken for quite a while).
you guys have to do quite the dance to keep this place bearable by both parties, knowing that it takes only one egregious kerfuffle to shut down the whole enterprise.
I think we're doing OK; I've no idea what Jeph thinks...
Maybe he could secure a forum space in the old Dumbrella boards for a forum that is about his work, yet not his responsibility to oversee. Someone's got to have spare server capacity for this sticky blob of shipping and spec.
I believe the old guard in the rest of the forum came from Dumbrella in the first place - but that was long before my time. Of course, anyone can set up a forum if they're prepared to pay for hosting and traffic - but I see no likelihood of Jeph paying for a forum he doesn't want.
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Speaking only for myself, and based only on osmosis from things that have been said, it seems like there are two important distinctions to draw.
One is between what people say about QC on the tvtropes forum and other wilder places, versus what they say and do in Jeph's guesthouse. If your host wants you to take off your shoes at the door or refrain from smoking, you would do so even if you wouldn't when out in public.
The other is between speculation and creativity. Extrapolating from themes Jeph set forth doesn't drive him crazy, according to his own statements. Fanfic, and groundless shipping, are creative. Creativity with your own characters is good, but creativity with someone else's characters risks being rudeness and plagiarism.
Nick and Maria, thank you for asking. I want the moderation to be transparent. In practice most of the shipping has been meant to be humorous, but nonetheless Jeph has called it out in a public post as being something he hates.
(/moderator)
Faye isn't doing anything to sabotage it! She is being sassy without being abusive and even took the initiative about moving to the next level. This relationship may actually work. It doesn't have the damaging problems underneath that she had with Marten and with Sven.
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]Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.
Would have worked fine if he didn't put his penis in another woman. And that boundary was firmly set by her.
I think there's an important distinction between the type of relationship that Faye and Sven had vs. the type of relationship that Faye and Angus have/seem to be going for.
Faye and Sven were hmm, to put it in their own words "antagonists with benefits". If either of then wanted a long term relationship then they could have brought that possibility to light. They had a fling, and Faye stipulated that the fling would end if Sven didn't stay monogamous. Yes, both Sven and Faye had an emotional stake in the relationship, but I don't think either of them were ready to acknowledge that to each other.
*as a side note, I don't think that hiding the extent of their emotions for each other made Sven and Faye's relationship "dishonest". I think that they were open with each other about what they were ready for and what their terms/conditions for the fling were. Thus, an honest relationship. They were still entitled to their own emotional privacy.
Faye and Angus's relationship is one that has been presented, along with Angus, in a serious light. It's definitely not a case of "I'm bored, lets have sex", which is what Faye/Sven was at times. Angus has been honest about his emotional interest in Faye from the beginning, while not putting unfair pressure on Faye.
Honestly, I'm sick of Sven getting jumped on for "cheating on Faye". I'm not saying that he necessarily makes the best decisions, but he was honest with Faye and didn't string her along or press his advantage in any way. He'd also stated from the beginning of their fling that he wasn't promising monogamy. I think both Faye and Sven had unrealistic expectations of each other.
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The difference is that this time Faye is being honest with herself. Last time she was telling herself that she wasn't in a Relationship when emotionally speaking she was. This time she's going into it with her eyes open.
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Maybe-Angus?:
375, 710
Early Angus:
767,
considering 767 links to 710 saying "remember this guy?" I think you can safely say 710 is Angus.
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I think that Angus and Faye have the potential to last as long as Marten and Dora, if not longer--especially because oh hey, do you know what they're doing? Being honest with each other.
Sven and Faye were honest with each other, and look how that ended up.
I'd hazard to say that the last thing Sven and Faye were with each other was honest. They lied to themselves about what they wanted and by extension to each other. They kept quite about feelings they were having and only communicated in thhe most superficial of ways.
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Agree with bunnyThor about 1363. Doesn't mesh at all with what we now know about Angus' housemates. I'm slow with these things so let me have a reality check moment: Jeph wanted to use the (excellent) "rebound sass" -pun willy-nilly, and lead up to it the best he could (given that he was pressed for time).
I'd hazard to say that the last thing Sven and Faye were with each other was honest. They lied to themselves about what they wanted and by extension to each other. They kept quite about feelings they were having and only communicated in the most superficial of ways.
I agree with rest of this, but am somewhat hesitant to call it lying. It looked like they didn't recognize whatever feelings they had brewing. Hence couldn't really lie (as in deliberately not tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth). They still could have tried to honestly communicate that uncertainty to each other, but the way the game was played that was not going to happen. Unfamiliar territory for both of them.
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Yes.
Yay ! Winner !
I have no problem seeing anyone attracted to Faye. She's spunky and sassy and witty and curvy.
Uh, anyone has any problem with that ?
But Angus? As far as I can tell, he's just a pre-existing male character who was available and unentangled.
I think hes a good enough match to Faye. He likes her humor, he likes her sass, and he is funny enough himself.
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He also seems to be a decent human being.
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He also seems to be a decent human being.
Must have double-majored. ;)
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For anyone who missed the reference, http://www.questionablecontent.net/1339 .
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Thanks, was just feeling lazy and didn't wanna look it up to link it.
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Wait! Where is the "Waffles for breakfast" option?
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It's there now.
And if waffles is a euphamism for sex, then yes.
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Whatever. It should be a euphemism for something, though.
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I think the reason for me that Faye and Marten would have (in the past) been a good relationship to me was the tension and then the relief of that tension, and with Sven the relationship worked for me, because even in its dysfunction, there was something passionate about it, and I could see these people being drawn to each other in a realistic, if dramatic, way. I think Faye and Angus seems boring to me, the same way that Dora and Marten seemed to be to me. I definitely do see them being a long term thing, though.
Aside from that, I've never really liked Angus that much as a character, as he also seems rather boring in general. I am just not that invested in him and don't care to see him in the main cast. Regardless, I do think he will be, and I will likely grow to enjoy his character. So far he hasn't done or said anything that particularly endears me to him. In fact where they run into each other at the bar in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=780 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=780) he really annoyed me. Angus really, really pushed to be part of Faye's life. I don't know if that is really that attractive a quality. Maybe her initial extreme annoyance and hatred of him is why i feel like their relationship doesn't work, and why others feel some hesitation as well.
Well, cheers to them. Hopefully Faye gets to have a healthy relationship.
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I'd have to say that one of the things that did endear Angus to me was his treatment of Marigold. From the dancing, to the "objective" analysis of her attractiveness, and the respect he showed her by not accepting her advances. Not to mention becoming invested in her Yaoi experience (granted, it was after making fun of it, but that seems to be part of his style, and I think the sarcasm is what hurts his image most).
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Oh I definitely agree about his treatment of Marigold. Big plus. I guess it's hard for me to change my initial reaction to the character, even though he's been established as a much different kind of person than how he was originally presented.
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I suspect that the sarcasm was a learned behavior. Perhaps all the snark he heard at that "super-fancy prep school" he went to in HS.
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I think the prep school may be one of the things that turned several people off. There's deinitely been an increase in the discrimination against the "preppy" class in the last few years - especially in the media, where they're often depicted as assholes.
Of course, that's because they frequently are. But that's stereotyping...
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Well, most stereotypes DO come from the most visible qualities of any given group.
i.e. More Assholes show up in TV than nice people. Some of those Assholes are preps, thus giving an impression that preps are assholes.
BUT, this is not a sociology class so I'll stop myself before I start talking about stuff I have no expertise in. I think that the dislike of Angus comes from a combination of his shakey introduction as an annoyance, sunken ships, and people taking his comments as if this was NOT a comedy comic, where foolish remarks can be forgotten as wuickly as they are said. Also, his backstory is not as interesting as the other characters and he seems to be much closer to an "everyman" than Marten is.
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I think, as we saw in their most recent shenanigans, they're not really prepared to go much farther than dipping their toes into the pool to test the water.
It's like my first time, where the expectations were too high, and came crashing down through noone's fault but my own.
And back hair. DAMN YOU BACK HAIR!!!!
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I think Faye and Angus seems boring to me, the same way that Dora and Marten seemed to be to me. I definitely do see them being a long term thing, though.
Aside from that, I've never really liked Angus that much as a character, as he also seems rather boring in general. I am just not that invested in him and don't care to see him in the main cast. ... So far he hasn't done or said anything that particularly endears me to him.
Well, cheers to them. Hopefully Faye gets to have a healthy relationship.
I've been vaguely annoyed with Angus passing Faye's exam too, but after thinking about his behavior, it's quite close to how mine would appear in the strip, including his treatment of Marigold. The biggest difference is his stubborn persistence in the face of Faye's resistance. (And no prep school.)
Interesting what one can take from QC.
:oops:
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I think the prep school may be one of the things that turned several people off. There's deinitely been an increase in the discrimination against the "preppy" class in the last few years - especially in the media, where they're often depicted as assholes.
Of course, that's because they frequently are. But that's stereotyping...
After reading this I had to check the meaning of "preppy" from urban dictionary. Ouch. Let's just say that I understand a bit better, why many forumites react negatively to him. Admittedly he annoyed Faye early on, but that was also a defensive mechanism on her part. After all, he did make an impression (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=808).
Also, while preppies certainly want to distance themselves from yuppies, social climbers and such, hasn't Angus sorta been climbing down the socio-economic ladder after college? Failed actor? Strawman? Ok. It is a world I know nothing about, so cannot judge. Doesn't match the preppy image (still hazy in my mind, but I think I met a few of those during my stay...).
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It looks like there's a core of security in their relationship, judging from the easy joshing in today's strip. This augurs well for their future.
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Indeed. <--- Classier than posting "This" or "+1" :angel:
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that reminds me...who killed will and penelope?
will we havent seen in months, penelope was last seen in 1716, somebody call the police!
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He's been working late nights at the Horrible Revelation. It's not easy, dealing with a bunch of drunken college co-eds and random people wanting to dress up in old-fashioned clothing and fancy hats.
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Given his alternatives, what choice did he have but to take the job? And think of how much insight he gets into the (drunken) human condition.
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Poetry on tap.
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Eh. They're sort of secondary characters though, anyway. They'll show up again when inspiration strikes and Jeph finalises the script for that time travel storyline where it turns out Wil had/is having an affair with himself while (he was) on that road trip.
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Penelope had a brief reappearance in 1832, telling Mrs Reed that Dora was behind the counter.
Will's only appearances to date since he was bitching about his new job (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1529) were at the party where Marigold found out about Faye & Angus.
But even before that he had sorta settled on the the bartending routine. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1650)
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Wil and Penney work different shifts, though - bartending is at best an afternoon through early evening gig, but frequently goes 'till late night. Baristas start early in the morning, run through the late afternoon, into early evening at the latest (I know, in a big city there are 24 hour coffee shops, but this is North Hampton, a fairly small college town, and we have evidence that closing time is early enough for the whole gang to go to a bar...)
My point is that they've probably settled into the working routine of several couples I've known - he gets off in the wee hours, goes home and prepares a nice breakfast (waffles, anyone?). Waking his Penney, they enjoy a meal and some time together before she goes to open the coffee shop and he goes to bed. When he wakes, he has some time to himself, and when she gets off work, before retiring for the evening, she has some time to herself. Days they both have off (carefully scheduled) are a precious commodity, with the afternoon time that they are both awake spent together.
The result? Happiness, and very few people get to see them together. No reason each doesn't hang out some with their old friends during their free time, Wil with Sven in the early afternoon, Pen-pen with a good book in the early evening.
And of course, Wil stops by for some coffee before work, and Penney frequently grabs a drink (and something to eat?) after her shift, each grabbing a kiss before going their separate ways.
Some people claim that limiting the amount of time spent together is the best way to make a relationship last! You don't have the time to get on each other's nerves...
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Wow...Carl-E, you have some how written the most literary and touching post I've read in a while. Maybe it's that it feels so real, that you've captured "a day in the life" so well. I dunno, however you did it, good form.
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I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm almost sure it'd be a awkward breakup with lingering feelings and no one person to blame. It just would become self-evident that it wasn't meant to be. And this would happen JUST as Marten starts to move on, getting into another relationship.
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Unfortunately, that sounds entirely plausible.
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Are opinions banned now, too? aren't we speculating?
Whatever. content that may not please your eyeballs has been removed.
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Someday, around strip 3000, they'll break up.
I mean, c'mon, it's a pattern, amirite?
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Personally, I'm shocked 'Explosive breakup' only got one vote. Shit, they're happy now, but remember what happened last time? Faye's psychosis could pop up any second. They've progressed so quickly, I'm sure she's having doubts. She's probably... a mix of exhilarated with her ability to carry on a normal relationship with a guy she has romantic interest in, and waiting for the axe to fall in every way. For Angus to sprout some horrific flaw, or herself to shift wrong, crack the illusion and snap in a violent rage of emotional agony and unidentifiable, gooey viscera!
Angus has displayed his faults, and they're really very banal. I give Faye a bit more credit than you do- for me, being cheated on would be a valid reason to end a relationship, as she did with Sven. Regardless of how you may feel about Angus, he's not a trigger for Faye's real issues.
As for their future, I fully agree that Angus is underdeveloped as a character... and that we haven't seen enough time of them together, assuming we see all of their significant meetings. They don't know each other well enough to have had sex yet (That is my personal opinion only) and I think they'll realize that quickly, as they start to see the smaller things in each other that they may not like.
They're past the point where they're pointing out physical flaws and otherwise mortal emotional drawbacks. They've seen the BIGGER things about each other that they might not like- the smaller things are just that.
I fully DISAGREE that Jeph is 'pairing off' Faye. He's far too meticulous in his characterizations to do such a thing. Angus sort of popped up after she got her single shred of normalcy and healing CRUSHED, and demanded her attention. His tenacity wasn't easily ignored or avoided, as surprise kiss showed us! She's rushing again. Rushing into sex and putting too much into it... This might be the same sort of thing, but with a lot more weight. If she lets her feelings get involved (Like she tried so hard not to with Sven), this could be devastating.
I think their future hinges on whether Angus will even be aware of her huge insecurity, much less be able to withstand it. I think that issue will crop up before they have TIME to start annoying each other. If not, this could fizzle quickly.
Angus likes Faye for her being a spitfire, and Faye likes him because he tries to give as good as he gets. And they both genuinely like each other.
Seriously, you're starting to sound like a disappointed shipper here. Faye and Angus aren't anywhere near perfect- and that's okay, because it's not a requirement for a healthy, loving relationship.
If you're waiting for the 'other shoe' to drop, despite three pairs falling from the sky already, you'll be waiting without me. Faye isn't a hard woman to love, she just needs someone who NEEDS a challenge in the relationship. And I strongly suspect Angus is really that guy.
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Personally, I'm shocked 'Explosive breakup' only got one vote. Shit, they're happy now, but remember what happened last time? Faye's psychosis could pop up any second. They've progressed so quickly, I'm sure she's having doubts.
I have trouble understanding, why do you think they are progressing quickly? In comparison to Sven&Faye? On the contrary! Faye has been rationing the advances very carefully and taken small steps at a time. Well, since we don't have an exact time scale on the comic, it is hard to tell for sure. I may be wrong here, simply because I first read the Faye & Sven story during my initial archive binge. Faye knows that she needs to be careful. Angus received the Cliff's notes from Marten (sort of) while defeating the Awkward Zone, so he seems to understand at some level, why she needs to take her time.
Then again, it is hardly a secret to any forumite that I am happy to see this particular couple dance. It is nice to see Faye genuinely happy after all the earlier years. I also quite like Angus for some reason. Can't quite put my finger on it, though. May it is the role of the awkward jester that I (in vain) attempted to grab in my own circle (still doing battle with my GOM surface)? May be it is just that my wife needed a longish period of persuasion, too? Faye and Angus also seem to match relatively well, but I'm too nerdy to analyze that in detail - several other forumites have done that much more eloquently.
Still too early to tell, whether they are for keeps. Let them enjoy the porridge for now.
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Yeah, srsbznss, what are you on about? "What happened last time" was that Faye had an almost exclusively physical relationship with a pre-specified end-trigger then followed through when that trigger (almost inevitably) occurred. She felt appropriately hurt/betrayed for a few days (weeks?) then moved on with her life, with pretty much exactly no signs of psychosis (which, BTW, is a specific condition which Faye simply doesn't have) and has even settled into a stable "meh, whatever" semi-distant acquaintanceship with her ex-lover. This is, despite what soap operas would have you believe, a healthy, appropriate reaction.
If anyone went a little crazy over that, it was Sven; he's been semi-depressed and consciously trying to distance himself from the behaviours which led him to screw up what he apparently considers one of the best things that's ever happened to him...
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I don't think either one has said "I love you" yet, at least not onscreen.
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No, THAT would be the kiss of death for the relationship.
Just ask Marten.
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I thought that would only be the kiss of death if the other person didn't say it back. Unless I'm remembering something else entirely.
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Unless it's the slightly cutesy "I looooove you..." followed by enough of a pause that the other person is guilt-tripped into saying "I love you, too".
After a while, the reply is given through clenched teeth. That is the true kiss of death...
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It's only happened once before in the strip.
They broke up 50 strips later.
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Are you sure? Because I'm almost positive Dora said it a while ago. Like, several hundred strips.
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It's only happened once before in the strip.
They broke up 50 strips later.
Doesn't necessarily mean that it caused the break-up.
But it does give me an excuse to say "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc."
My favorite logical fallacy of all, partly because it's Latin and fun to say, but mostly because it was the title of the second e[pisode ot The West Wing.
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Man, if you want good Latin, wait until the second season. Where he basically tells God to go fuck himself...in Latin.
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Right before the Ghost of Mrs. Landingham visits him in the Oval Office during a tropical storm and tells him "Don't talk to God like that!"
"Two Cathedrals," one of my favorites!
(I have the entire series on DVD and watch them all at least three times a year.)
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Nice. I watched the whole series on Netflix my senior year of high school (2005-2006) and haven't watched it since, although I do plan on acquiring them in a couple years, if they're out on Bluray and I have the spare currency.
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Still too early to tell, whether they are for keeps. Let them enjoy the porridge pancakes for now.
Fixed that. I mean, where do you think you're posting? We do not sup meagerly with relationship porridge here, but feast upon post-coital pancakes.
I'm fine with Angus and Faye enjoying the pancakes; truly, I feel Faye deserves a lot of extra syrup and real butter just for moving forward as well as she has, both with Angus and otherwise. But I don't think they're long-term, simply because Jeph has not, so far, shown any inclination to write characters capable of long-term relationships. He seems to enjoy planting little relationship-shatterin' time bombs in them. I haven't seen the specific one in Angus and Faye yet, other than the obvious—that Faye, although better, still has problems, and they will manage to interfere with her life and relationship at some point.
Whether said dissolution will occur just as Marten is beginning another relationship is open to spec, but would be… interesting… for us, of course, to dissect. Hellish for the characters, but who cares? It's not like they're real or anything.
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Their universe isn't real, but they are within it.
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As are we in ours.
I think Angus and Faye can be successful, and that part of Faye's healing will be learning to work through issues that come up. Angus strikes me as an "anything it takes" kind of guy, and has the patience she'll be needing.
Not to say there won't be hijinks ensuing...
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If Marten hangs with tSB crowd more, bumping into Angus' ex could lead to awkwardness and drama. Not enough to break up but maybe enough to lead to Angus and Faye's first significant fight as a couple. Although it could just end up with laughter and, "How did you manage her for X time you went out?" comments.
I think Angus and Faye if they stay relaxed and keep up this honest and comfortable pace they've set up, they could last a long while.