THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => CLIKC => Topic started by: Scandanavian War Machine on 02 Mar 2011, 13:58
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title says it all. i just got my tax return and i'm thinking about just blowing it all on a computer, because fuck saving money. :wink:
Now, before you guys start shouting numbers and alien symbols at me, you need to understand that I don't know jack shit about computers. Relatively speaking, of course. I know infinitely more about computers than, say, my dad, but that's not exactly an impressive feat.
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The basics:
- I have about $700 to spend, but if I can spend less than that I would be very pleased indeed
- I already have a 20" monitor I can use, if I need to, but I also have a really nice 37" tv in my room that I'd probably end up using, if possible.
- I don't need super high-end stuff because my goals are fairly modest:
+ Basically I just want to be able to play Minecraft full screen at max settings.
+ obviously, I'll use it for music and pictures and stuff too
+ light gaming beyond Minecraft, but nothing too intense like Crysis 2 or Battlefield 3. The most intense game I'd probably play on it would be the STALKER games, and maybe The Witcher, or something. I'm really not much of a PC gamer.
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Based on this info I've determined that I'd probably need at least a dual-core processor, maybe a quad-core, if the price is right.
I know nothing about graphics cards.
Probably get a 1TB harddrive, since memory is so cheap now, but I'm totally open to suggestions since, like i said, I don't know shit.
And that's pretty much as far as I've thought about it.
Now, the real question, beyond your suggestions for parts, is whether I should buy something already put together, buy something already put together but customizable (like from Costco.com), or if I should buy all the parts separately and put it together myself.
I wouldn't mind being able to save some money and put it together myself but I'm not sure if I'm capable of that. Is it hard? Risky? Could I fuck it up? I've never done anything like that before, so I'd be learning from scratch, probably from online tutorials and whatever advice I get here. Is that viable? I am pretty dang lazy so if the savings aren't that impressive, then I'd just as soon avoid the work and not put it together myself, extra cost be damned.
I've never owned my own computer, so this has been a long time coming.
Thanks in advance for all your help!
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Newegg (http://www.newegg.com). Budget, including postage. Look for deals - prices on processors and video cards tend to be pretty good, because competition between AMD / ATI and Intel / Nvidia is fierce. I would gravitate towards AMD processors, they suffer a bit in performance compared to Intel, but not too much, and they're cheaper.
Get a case, a modestly priced motherboard with the specs you want, a good hard drive, a cooling fan for the processor, andddd anything else you want. Adjust your choices for price. You can probably do well.
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i actually just discovered Newegg yesterday! It definitely seems to be the place to go.
okay, looking at dual-core AMDs, I found this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.593819) combo deal. Thoughts? I have no idea what any of those numbers and codes mean.
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ooh i found the combo-specific section!
this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.591913) looks like it comes with everything i'd need*, and everything seems to be pretty good. maybe even overkill, but the price is right. six-cores seems a little much, but I don't know how good any of that other stuff is.
this is where you geniuses come in :mrgreen:
*edit: apparently not. it says "*Note* Additional components are required to complete the system." but I don't know what
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Only thing I suggest for the combos is look up the individual components that are included. They don't guarantee they are compatible, as I found to my dismay, when I was building my wife's current computer.
Upon looking at the link you posted, that's actually a pretty great combo. Only thing it's missing is a Video Card.
If you are willing to spend a tiny amount more than $700, then I'd suggest this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102865)
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What I'd suggest doing if you haven't already is take say, $15 of that budget and spend it on PC Magazines. They're useful, full of information you need on what is new and what to use, and it gives you time to get shit together. I'd say do that for like 2 months.
BUT if you want one by next week, yeah look at websites where you can just get your own spec built. I can't be much help as I don't know American computer sites...
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i actually just discovered Newegg yesterday! It definitely seems to be the place to go.
okay, looking at dual-core AMDs, I found this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.593819) combo deal. Thoughts? I have no idea what any of those numbers and codes mean.
...
ooh i found the combo-specific section!
this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.591913) looks like it comes with everything i'd need*, and everything seems to be pretty good. maybe even overkill, but the price is right. six-cores seems a little much, but I don't know how good any of that other stuff is.
this is where you geniuses come in :mrgreen:
*edit: apparently not. it says "*Note* Additional components are required to complete the system." but I don't know what
Looks good, but you need a motherboard that can fit both your processor and that big-ass video card (looks like it will take up two PCI-E slots). Shouldn't be too hard to find, though.
After that, find a good mid-tower or tower case that has the dimension you want but can still fit all the components you want (like big-ass video cards).
Oh, don't forget a power supply. Check the specs on your CPU and video card, but with one mid-range video card you probably shouldn't need more than 500w.
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Here's my crash course in computer hardware:
General Shopping:
- If you want to run Windows you need a legit license. If you're in college you should be able to buy a copy of 7 through your bookstore for $40 or considerably less. If not you'll have to buy a license. Home Premium is around $100. You might be able to use a license from another PC, but you can only legally do so if you do not use the other PC anymore. Keep this in mind when calculating your budget.
- 32 bit OSes are limited to 4 gigabytes of memory. I highly recommend running 64 bit, because it's the current and future standard. The only downside is really old (early 90s DOS) software won't run natively on it, and you might have trouble finding drivers for old and/or obscure hardware.
- Cheap components are always shitty. Specifically, avoid PC Chips, ECS, and ransom no-name parts like "SunshineTek".
- Cases are genberally exempt from rule #1, but for the love of [the diety of your choice goes here] DO NOT BUY A CASE WITH AN INCLUDED POWER SUPPLY UNLESS IT IS AN ANTEC OR YOU DO NOT PLAN ON USING SAID POWER SUPPLY.
- The worst places to cheap out are the motherboard and power supply.
- Google/Bing/Yahoo/AltaVista the piss out of everything you think about buying. "[CPU name and model number here" benchmark" will spit out bar graphs showing you the relative performance of different competing CPUs over the
- Unless you're doing a lot of gaming or are playing a lot of HD video, built-in Intel video is good enough for normal desktop use.
- If you're comparing two devices that both have 4 star reviews, but one has twenty reviews and the other has five hundred, you're probably better off with the latter.
- Bundles, bundles, bundles. NewEgg loves bundles and you should too. 99% of the time they're compatible parts you're going to need anyway.
CPUs
- Given identical clock speeds and core count, an AMD CPU will have about 75% of the performance of an Intel. Their CPU architecture simply isn't as efficient.
- Cache (very fast memory built into the CPU) is king. That's one reason AMD can sell their CPUs so cheap; they skimp on the onboard cache and performance suffers because of it.
- More cores allows more simultaneous tasks. A 3.0 ghz dual-core CPU will complete a single-threaded task faster than a 2.5 ghz quad, but if you're running a multithreaded program (one that can take advantage of multiple cores), the quad could pull ahead.
- Priority for judging a CPU's performance: model line, codename, number of cores, cache, clock speed.
- Never try to directly compare mobile and desktop CPUs.
Power Supplies
- Antec and Corsair make really nice power supplies.
- Don't buy no-name brands like SunnyTech or CompuPower.
- Count on needing at least 650 watts to run a high end video card. If you run a midrange card, you can use a 550w power supply. Right now I'm running a Core 2 Quad, a GeForce GTX 260, and five hard drives on a 750 watt Corsair power supply.
- Some power supplies have "rails", basically individual power supplies. An 800 watt power supply with two rails is effectively a pair of 400 watt supplies in one case. If you get a power supply with two rails you will have to balance the load between the two.
Hard Drives:
- Don't just look at capacity. RPMs and cache give you an idea of performance, of course the more the better. For desktops you want a 7200 RPM hard drive to boot and load your data from, there is quite a difference between 7200 RPM and 5400 RPM. 5400 RPM drives are fine for cheap bulk data storage.
- Don't bother with SSDs in desktops yet. Yes SSDs are fast, but they're very expensive for the capacity you get (4-10x the price of a hard drive of similar size), they burn out over time, and because you're not running off batteries you don't really have to worry about power consumption.
- Western Digital and Seagate are at the top of my preference list. Then come Samsung and Hitachi. I'm not partial to Maxtor drives.
- Contrary to the first point, don't bother with those fancy over the top 10k RPM drives. Unless you're doing hardcore gaming you won't notice much of a difference over a decent (and much cheaper) 7200 RPM drive.
- Some enthusiasts might tell you to run your drives in a RAID array. You don't need to. (RAID is a way to treat multiple hard drives as one, increasing performance, reliability, or both. It's great for servers and speed junkies, but you don't really need it.)
- Transfer speed matters, get a SATA 3.0 drive. SATA X.0 just means the drive controller can copy data at X megabits per second. 3.0 is common and cheap, 6.0 is faster and cutting-edge (therefore more expensive), 1.5 is old.
Motherboards
- As I said before, avoid PC Chips, ASRock, and ECS motherboards. They're rubbish.
- Make sure the motherboard you get has solid-state capacitors. A lot of bottom-drawer motherboards use cheaper electrolytic capacitors (they look like little cylinders), which can go bad after a couple years. A few years ago there was a massive run of bad capacitors that affected nearly every electronics manufacturer.
- Gigabyte, Asus, Acer, and Intel all make good motherboards.
- Make sure the motherboard you pick matches the CPU you pick. They should both have the same socket and bus speed capabilities.
- MicroATX motherboards aren't necessarily less powerful than full size ATX boards. They're just smaller and have fewer expansion slots.
Video cards
- The first digit of the model number is the generation. The second digit of the model number is like the trim level. The bigger these numbers are, the better. Newer cards at higher 'trim levels' can filter and process images better.
- More memory on the video card is good, however pay attention to the model number as well. A lot of manufacturers will throw extra memory on a low-end card to cheaply increase performance and make it look better.
- Generation and 'trim level' are generally more important than the amount of RAM the card has. If you can get a 1 gigabyte x20 card or a 768 megabyte x50 card for the same price, go for the x50. More memory won't make the card process images any better.
- You will need a good power supply to keep up with high-end video cards.
- SLI and Crossfire are technologies from Nvidia and AMD respectively that allow two video cards to work together. Good for speed junkies who need the latest and greatest, and also good for cheap frugal people who can buy another one of their video cards in a couple years once they're cheaper to extend the life of their PC. Don't worry about this right now; it's a nice thing to have but not essential.
Cases
- Just pick a case you like the look of. Thankfully, motherboard layouts are pretty much standardized, so any case should work for any motherboard. Just be careful if you get a full ATX motherboard and are looking at minitower cases, some of those can only take MicroATX, which are a few inches shorter.
- Cheap cases might not be made as well as decent ones. You can weed out the really crappy ones by ignoring the ones that cost less than $30.
- Dust filters are awesome.
That should cover the common-sense stuff. Time to play computer shopping! (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14073868/pictures/emotes/emot-neckbeard.gif)
e: I like this combo. It's got everything you need except the OS and video card for $520. 2.8 ghz quad core i5, 1 TB hard drive, 4 gigs of RAM (which will leave 2 free slots for later expansion)...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.606598
Throw in a $75-$100 video card and you'll be set for years. For example, this Radeon 5670:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127523
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- If you want to run Windows you need a legit license.
Conversely, find a disc for system builders and PM me for l337 |-|@xx
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alright, lot of info there. thanks, bicostp!
I'm going to get online when I get home and really start googling my ass off. I've had newegg and google tabbed pretty much all day here at work, but I've actually learned very little. I thought i learned something for a minute but i think it was just gas.
so, now that i've got some good info on parts and what to do/not to do, how difficult is it to actually put all these parts together when I get them? You pretty much just plug them all into each other right? no soldering or anything weird like that, right?
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Assembly is pretty straightforward. All the connectors now only plug into where they're supposed to plug. (Once upon a time motherboards used two mirror-image but identical plugs for power, and if you got them mixed up the motherboard burned out.) You shouldn't have to use a ton of brute force, if you do something is probably misaligned. The trickiest part is getting the motherboard's shield plate (the rectangular bit the ports stick out of) in and lined up. The motherboard has to sort of lie flat and push into the shield plate.
You shouldn't have to worry about thermal paste if you use an OEM heat sink from a retail package (they usually come with a grey pad), but if you ever replace the heatsink or CPU you will. (Thermal paste is white gunk in a mini syringe that helps conduct heat between the CPU and heat sink.) If you have to replace the paste, you need to get it as thin and even as possible. (Excess paste actually insulates the CPU and makes the cooling less effective.) The best way is to spread it with an old credit card or gift card, but if you can't get a hold of one stick your finger into the corner of a clean sandwich bag and spread it with that. You want it nice and even.
There are only a couple connectors you have to watch out for: the front panel connectors and hard drive power connectors. The front panel is actually connected to the motherboard with a bunch of small jacks that slip onto pins. They're all stamped with what they do, and the motherboard manual will tell you which pins do what. As for hard drive power, some drives have fancypants SATA power connectors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SATA_power_cable.jpg) and old-school 4 pin connectors. Do not use both power connectors or you might burn the hard drive's board up. Use one or the other, preferably the SATA power.
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And remember, read everything. Everything comes overpackaged with picture instructions, and they're the easiest things in the world to follow.
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You shouldn't have to use a ton of brute force
This is true enough about most things, but I wish someone had told my friend's old computer's power supply this when I had to help him replace it two weeks ago, it took us an hour to get that thing unplugged, thank god the newer unit went in so much easier. of course this shouldn't be an issue since you're building one from scratch, though honestly guys, for 700 bucks he could get a more than decent pre-built for his needs with a lot less hassle than assembling one from scratch, though I suppose building your own is a good experience/character building, etc. I mean if all he needs to run is Minecraft and several games a couple years old, like, he could get a desktop for like 500 with everything he's looking for, easy.
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Hey I was interested in a new 'puter too and this caught my eye.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227314
Like I am totally behind the times but isn't that like a really decent deal? I mean this would play pretty much any game I would want to buy in the next 5 years!!!
Or does this just show that I haven't gotten a new computer since 2005?
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I was actually looking at that one too, so I'd like to hear if anybody has any input on it as well.
It seems like a really good deal and all the reviews are really positive, unlike some of the reviews for similar setups from the same company.
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The only issue is that you're never certain of where the products are sourced. As one commenter says, there's only a 460W PSU and no indication of who made it. So you know where the CPU comes from, and the case, and that's about it. Can't comment on price though, as I'd pay twice that down here.
Plus, that case is hideous.
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Forget the way a case looks. Forget LEDs and all that jazz. Pay attention to how many fans and vents it has, how many HD slots, etc.
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Again, you don't know what companies those parts were sourced from. A lot of those custom-built no-name computer shops use bargain basement parts from companies that have a well known reputation for building garbage. Fake power supply wattage (lots of amps on the 5v line where they do no good, but it's still 1599 watts and they can sell it as such), sketchy motherboards, bad RAM, cheap hard drives...
At least by building your own PC you know the stuff you're buying will last longer than the 90 day return window.
If you're going to buy premade you might as well just get an Optiplex or ThinkCenter. (Never buy computers from Wal-Mart or other technology grocery stores. They're junk.)
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e: I like this combo. It's got everything you need except the OS and video card for $520. 2.8 ghz quad core i5, 1 TB hard drive, 4 gigs of RAM (which will leave 2 free slots for later expansion)...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.606598
Throw in a $75-$100 video card and you'll be set for years. For example, this Radeon 5670:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127523
I'm thinking about going with this. I was looking at almost identical combos earlier, but they were generally more expensive and actually included less.
just have to get somebody in college in buy windows 7 for me for cheap (i knew younger sisters were good for something), and i'd be good to go, eh? I'm gonna sleep on it and check my bank account tomorrow, see what i got to work with here.
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Buying a pre-made is a pretty decent alternative if you don't really feel confident in your ability to pick a few basic parts that you think you can keep for a while. For example, my old Antec full tower put me back $75 by itself. Mitigating factor? I paid $75 for it... back in '00. It's so old that people still thought fans bigger than 80mm was crazy talk. On the bright side, it's roughly 29 pounds of galvanized steel before you put anything in it, which led to a long and glorious history of stubbed toes. My old roommate once remarked that my PC is undefeated against human opponents.
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If you're going to buy premade you might as well just get an Optiplex or ThinkCenter. (Never buy computers from Wal-Mart or other technology grocery stores. They're junk.)
Is thinkcenter the same as lenovo?
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e: I like this combo. It's got everything you need except the OS and video card for $520. 2.8 ghz quad core i5, 1 TB hard drive, 4 gigs of RAM (which will leave 2 free slots for later expansion)...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.606598
well, i still like the look of this combo.
This video card caught my eye though, so i'd like to get some feedback on it, as video cards are the thing i prolly know the least about.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874
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I'd pass on that videocard-- at that price point you can do better than paying for a full gig of RAM and Directx11 support. With video cards it really pays to check out things like the Tom's Hardware charts (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards,1.html). Oftentimes you can do better buying a discounted "mainstream" card from the last generation rather than buying the newest budget card-- and that goes double if you can score a good rebate.
Speaking of rebates and discounts, I wholeheartedly back KvP's suggestion of Newegg since they have a topnotch design that's often imitated, but don't forget about Tigerdirect (http://www.tigerdirect.com) or Directron (http://www.directron.com/) when comparison shopping. Personally, what I like to do is use Newegg to narrow my candidates down and then I check other sites to see if they have the same product but with different discounts or shipping deals. Directron in particular has a pretty spartan website but as far as the actual products go I've never had a bad experience with them. Tigerdirect is probably my least favorite of the three-- they're alright, but the customer service was kinda shitty when I had to return something.
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I'd pass on that videocard-- at that price point you can do better than paying for a full gig of RAM and Directx11 support.
Care to elaborate? I kinda figured I didn't need DX11 (I don't even know what that means, just that it's new) but beyond that I'm just looking for something decent and relatively cheap that will allow me to ouput to my 37" hd tv (hence why i was looking at cards wit HDMI outputs)
I really am completely clueless about this stuff and those charts and benchmarks meant very little to me. $74.99 seemed like a good deal for 1gb RAM (don't even know what that does relative to video cards) and an hdmi output. alot of the other ones I saw with HDMI had less RAM and were usually more expensive, which seemed like a bad deal to me.
thanks again for the help y'all
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The thing with RAM is that either you have enough and you get no benefit from tacking on more or you don't have quite enough and you take a bit of a performance hit. However, just how much video RAM you need is fairly negotiable given that you can often lower AA or texture settings to get back under the bar pretty easily-- and if you're playing at 1680x1050, having a full gig is often just overkill on many older titles. With that said, having a full gig actually isn't that bad of an idea given that you plan on HD resolutions. Plus, another big reason for my earlier post is that I didn't notice that there was a $10 rebate. At $75 I would have recommended spending a bit more and looking into an old HD4850 512 if you could find one for well under a hundo but they've rather dried up it appears and at $65 and knowing you want HD res the newer card starts looking a bit more appealing. Plus, it's bound to be a less noisy and power hungry beast.
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Yeah, all the reviews I read on Newegg were pretty dang positive and many of them mentioned how quiet and cool it runs.
question though, just to make sure I'm not fucking myself here: is that card (this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874)) compatible with the parts in this combo? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.606598)
it says PCI express 2.1 which I THINK refers to the type port it uses or something...the number of prongs maybe? I don't know. One review on Newegg mentioned that it wasn't compatible with what they thought it was, so i wanna be sure I'm not buying a bunch of stuff that won't fit together.
what does a video card even plug into anyway? the motherboard? the motherboard in that combo is a "GIGABYTE LGA 1156 Intel P55 USB 3.0 ATX Motherboard" if that's helpful or relevent
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(http://www.pccasegear.com/images/GA-P55-USB3-2s.jpg)
The video card plugs into one of the longer blue slots running vertically on the left, which are PCI-E 16x. The white ones are for other cards, like a soundcard. The big ones are older PCI slots, the smaller ones are the new PCI-E 1x.
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PCI Express 2.1 refers to the slot (PCI Express) and revision to the standard (2.1). They're the long expansion slots on the motherboard. Don't sweat it if you buy a 2.1 video card and a motherboard that only supports 2.0, they're backwards compatible. Yes, that video card will work in that motherboard.
Don't worry about how much RAM to get, just slap in 4 gigs and call it a day. That's more than plenty for desktop stuff and moderate gaming, and RAM is pretty cheap.
The amount of memory on a video card is less important than the graphics core the card is built around. Bigger model numbers are better. So for example a 5750 is probably better than a 5570. Just search for "[card1] vs [card 2]" or "[card] benchmark" and you'll get some bar graphs and recommendations. Reliable sources include Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/) and Hardware Canucks (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/).
Because you don't plan on doing top-of-the-line, 700 FPS in Crysis gaming, you don't need an expensive, fancy card. Something like a GeForce GTS 450 or Radeon HD 5750 will be more than enough for your current needs, and it will handle whatever you might throw at it in the next few years. A lesser card such as a GeForce 430 or Radeon 5570 would probably be okay for now, but you might be disappointed with it within a year or two if you try to run newer games it can't keep up with. (Plus the really low end cards sometimes lack features such as audio over HDMI, HDCP, and GPU HD video acceleration.)
Is thinkcenter the same as lenovo?
It's the name of their tower PC line, just like ThinkPad is their business laptop line.
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new possible option: one of my roommates bought his computer custom from costco.com, and he just helped me find a good model to start with, and i'm thinking about going that route, just for simplicity's sake, and also it's potentially cheaper.
like, i just came up with this for $687.99:
* AMD Phenom(TM) X4 840T quad-core processor [2.9GHz, 2MB L2 + 6MB L3 shared, up to 4000MHz]
* 6GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [3 DIMMs] from 4GB
* 1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 750GB
* 512MB DDR3 AMD Radeon HD 6450 [DVI, HDMI. VGA adapter]
* Integrated sound
* 15-in-1 memory card reader, 1 USB, 1394, audio
* Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
* No additional office software
* HP wireless keyboard and wireless optical mouse
* Integrated Ethernet port, No wireless LAN
* LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
seems just about right, i dunno.
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Make sure your mobo has at least 6 more USB ports, else you'll need an expander.
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new possible option: one of my roommates bought his computer custom from costco.com
computer custom from costco
computer from costco
computer from costco
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14073868/pictures/emotes/emot-stare.gif)
It's this thing (http://www.costco.com/CTO/HPConfigurator.aspx?Prodid=10029569&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC%7c84&N=4047239&Mo=1&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName%3aBC&cat=28162&Ns=P_Price%7c1%7c%7cP_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=&model=XX091AV%23ABA), isn't it? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14073868/pictures/emotes/emot-ohdear.png) The CPU is noticeably inferior to the one in the bundle linked earlier, the motherboard is bound to be rubbish, the hard drive is probably a Maxtor, the power supply is going to be barely adequate for the included hardware. Add a reasonably priced video card to that bundle and you'll have better performance for the same price. (You just have to build it yourself.)
Playing computer shopping again:
Different combo with the same motherboard and CPU as before, but with a 1.5 TB hard drive and no case and power supply: $420
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.611151
ThermalTake V3 Black Edition case: $40 (There are lots of decent cases for $30-$40)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133094
Cooler Master 500w power supply: $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171031
Price so far: $490. Add in a decent graphics card and a cheap Windows license and you'll be set. (But even if you have to buy it for $100, a $100 video card is still within your $700 budget.)
An OEM windows 7 Home Premium license is $100. College students can get it dirt cheap, and someone earlier in the thread said they might be able to help as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754
Grocery store computers are rubbish. No exceptions. They're built as cheap as possible because they're sold like disposable appliances.
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yeah, i was definitely skeptical and hesitant, for obvious reasons, but i mean i've used his computer quite a bit and it's no slouch. he certainly likes it. But like you said it probably won't actually last all that long.
I think I'm gonna go with your suggestions though. With that sapphire video card from earlier, and a slightly more expensive case, i'm up to $610 with shipping. And I know a bunch of students, including my sister, so i can have somebody pick up windows for me at a good price.
i'm gonna look at some more cases tomorrow and try to get a hold of my sister, or somebody else in college, and then probably pull the trigger on this thing.
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Alright, well I added a cheap cd/dvd drive (totally forgot about that little part) and i think i'm good to go. currently at $621 with shipping, so if i can get Windows 7 at the student price, I'll still be under my $700 mark, with enough left over to buy some weed :wink:
final thoughts?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.611151
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171031
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133094
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136221
this is all so exciting
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Maybe get this disc drive instead. The base price is a buck more, but shipping is cheaper ($5 instead of $7), there's a free shipping promo code good through Monday, and it's SATA instead of IDE. 8)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106335
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That looks pretty good, but I would spring for a better quality power supply. Push up to about $60 and you can get a basic Antec. They make really decent PSUs.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016 (5/5 eggs)
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ah too late! I already put the order through like an hour ago; my mom came into my work and got me all hyped up and said she'd buy Windows 7 for me (not sure why, but hey i'm not complaining) so I just went for it.
Maybe get this disc drive instead. The base price is a buck more, but shipping is cheaper ($5 instead of $7), there's a free shipping promo code good through Monday, and it's SATA instead of IDE. 8)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106335
ooh is that SATA vs. IDE thing gonna be a problem? It is, isn't it? It didn't even occur to me that it might not fit with what I already got. Good thing I love making mistakes; it's such a fast and effective way to learn. :wink:
Not a huge deal though, those things are dirt cheap, and i can probably return it if it's not the right one.
Thanks again for all your super duper help, everybody! I definitely needed it. I'm sure I'll be back here asking how to put the thing together once it actually gets here.
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Nah, your motherboard has an IDE bus, it will work. The other one was just a few bucks cheaper, and SATA cables are less annoying to run than IDE ribbon cables, that's all. :lol:
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well, that's a relief
i feel like i actually did pretty well here considering how completely ignorant i am about computer stuff. obviously, this is thanks almost entirely to you fine people
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One of usssss
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oh god i'm finally gonna have to figure out what this "Steam" this, aren't i? :psyduck:
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(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cautionary.png)
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I figure that's supposed to be something saying "oh hey, kids'll get into Linux and love geeling out with it" or someshit, but I just see it and think "that dude has wasted twelve weeks of his life trying to get Linux running properly"
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oh god i'm finally gonna have to figure out what this "Steam" this, aren't i? :psyduck:
It's awesome is what it is. :mrgreen:
One of usssss
One of us! One of us! We accept her! We accept her! One of us!
I figure that's supposed to be something saying "oh hey, kids'll get into Linux and love geeling out with it" or someshit, but I just see it and think "that dude has wasted twelve weeks of his life trying to get Linux running properly"
That's pretty close to the truth, except he forgot the part about asking for help on forums and either getting yelled at because you don't know obscure console commands or receiving nothing but "works for me" replies.
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Hey guys I am going to try to build my own setup too.
Doing the same thing with seeing if I can get a copy of Windows 7 64 from a friend who still is in college.
So here is the combo I am considering.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.614415
But look at the PCI express slot: 2, x16/x0 or x8/x8
And this card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874
is a PCI Express 2.1 x16 Card.
So does that mean that that video card would not work in that PCI Express slot?
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It will work.
The x16/x0 or x8/x8 bit is basically how the PCI Express bus lanes are split up between the two slots. The chipset can run one slot at full bandwidth, or split that bandwidth in half between two cards. If you later add a second video card, it won't be able to run them both at full x16 speed. If you plan on only running one video card, and don't plan on using the other x16 slot for anything else, don't worry about it.
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Also don't worry about it because x8/x8 gives no noticeable performance loss at all.
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parts came in the mail yesterday! promptly screwed in the power supply and then had to stop when I got to step two, the motherboard (i'm just going in the order that the case's instructions list the parts. good/bad idea?) because i need thermal grease for the cpu. kinda figured it would come with a little. i mean...if you're buying a cpu by itself, it follows that you are going to be installing it, therefore you will need thermal grease. but nooo i gotta buy my own. :wink:
hopefully i can get some of that gunk today and then i just need to install the other stuff without fucking it up too badly, and get windows, and i'll be computing my face off.
gotta admit i was pretty overwhelmed by all the wires and shiny things when i opened the box. the PSU alone has a bundle of wires almost as thick as my wrist. and don't even get me started on the motherboard! i didn't even wanna touch it, i felt like i should have been handling it in some kind of hermetically sealed clean-room, or something. :mrgreen:
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It will work.
I was more worried about the PCI-Express slot being 2.0 and the card being 2.1
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Two things:
Make sure you spread the thermal grease evenly. Most of the time they give you an applicator card (basically a piece of plastic) that you can use to spread it around.
Don't fret too much about all the wires and whatnot. It's daunting, and you should be careful, but as long as you're grounded you'll be OK. Don't do this on a rug if you can help it, and if you do, make sure to touch the metal parts of the case fairly often. They sell 'anti-static' bracelets which basically just clip onto your computer to do that for you, but as long as you're not producing a bunch of friction and grounding yourself regularly, you'll be fine. It'll also save you 10 bucks.
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Hey, did you get an aftermarket cooler, or are you just gonna use the Intel cooler? If so, there's already thermal paste on it.
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yeah, it's the one that came with the cpu, but the instructions didn't mention anything about that so i assumed i had to get my own. glad to see that my initial assumption was actually correct though and i'm not quite as crazy as i thought.
so...there goes ten bucks, but whatever, i'm sure i'll have a need for that tube of thermal gunk someday.
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Don't feel bad. If you ever have to remove the heatsink, or if you replace it with an aftermarket one, you'll be thankful you have some around instead of having to run around tracking some down. Just tape the tube to the inside of the PC case along with an envelope for your OS and driver discs.
I like using an old plastic gift card to spread thermal grease. Put a blob about the side of a pea in the middle and spread it out. (You want to use as little as possible and spread it as even as you can. Too much paste actually impedes heat flow and insulates the CPU.)
Don't worry about the wires coming out of the power supply, the biggest problem is figuring out what to do with all the extras after you plug everything in!
Before you install the motherboard, install the CPU. Yes that's contrary to what people usually tell you, but using the stock Intel coolers with the little push pins it's actually easier to do it out of the case. What you want to do is take everything out of the motherboard box, then put one layer of packing foam into the box. Then put the anti-static bag on top of that. Now put the board on top of that and install the CPU. Follow the directions that came with the CPU, they'll tell you how the pins should go in. It's a little tricky and you'll have to push a bit harder than you'd think you should, but doing it in the box like that supports the motherboard better than just a few brass standoffs will so you don't have to worry as much. Also once it's installed the heatsink doubles as a convenient handle.
I was more worried about the PCI-Express slot being 2.0 and the card being 2.1
PCIe 2.1 is backwards compatible.
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Oh yeah, definitely. It's always great to have some spare just in case.
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after a little praying and a little battling with the arcane instructions, i got everything correctly connected and tested it. worked perfectly.
no windows yet, but the disc is in the mail.
honestly, it wasn't as complicated as i thought it would be. slide this in, plug that in, screw that to this, and boom! you're done. amazing. i think i spent more time just trying to get the motherboard in place than anything else. i ended up taking out the case fan to give my fingers a little bit more room during that part and it was easy after that.
thanks again for all your help, everybody. i am so stoked right now. i actually went and dug out my old pc games from my parents' house the other day, and i had some good stuff in there! thief: the dark project, carmageddon, civilization 4, the first STALKER game, a few other random ones, and....well, and then there's Spore, which i have sort of a love/hate relationship with. mostly hate.
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Did you try any fancy cable routing? Gotta do that, have a whole mess of cables behind the motherboard tray looking all neat.
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no, not yet. it's pretty messy. the main priority was to get it all working but now that it is, i might try to tidy it up but most of the cables are so rigid, or bent at weird angles, that i'm not sure i care to do anything besides clip or tie them together where they hang.
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As long as you don't have anything like a big fat IDE ribbon blocking all your airflow you'll be okay.
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I've actually stopped bothering to close my computer case, partly because I can't be bothered cramming all the cables back in, but also because in case something goes wrong I'll be able to just stick my head under the desk to have a look-see.
Should I close it?
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I keep the case on my wife's computer open all the time, because sometimes she needs Windows for something or other, so I will swap the Linux HD and the Windows HD, and it's just easier not to have to take the side off. You do have to blow the dust out more frequently if you leave the case open.
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Keeping the case closed helps keep air flowing the way it's supposed to, but leaving the side off theoretically opens it up to more volume circulating...
I'd close it, if only to control the amount of dust it's sucking in.
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Yeah. Well-designed cases have all those dust filters for a reason.
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Okay so I guess what I'll do
I'll go over it with a vacuum cleaner and then tie up the floating cables everywhere, and then close it up.
coo.
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Yes, stop the cat sleeping in it and keep the dog's nose out of the fans.
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The closest thing to intrusive pets I had were ducklings and they couldn't give a two-shits about the computer other than stand next to me and chirp at me as if I was their mother
Ugh
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holy shit you guys i finally got windows (what a pain in the ass) and i've spent the last 16 hours or so playing the first STALKER game and Civilization 4 and i'm so stoked
unfortunately, right on the day when i get windows, our internet went out again after going strong for like a week. it'll probably be back soon, it's just really disappointing timing. stupid old house. So i'm at a friend's house right now about to downlad Minecraft and a couple other things (Stone Soup, for example) onto a portable harddrive to take home.
i'm excited to actually try to play through STALKER, i've played the beginning of that game like eight times but i never end up sticking with it.
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Please, please tell me you've heard about Stalker Complete. It's probably the mod for any game I've ever played - better looking, better sounding, better playing, and better AI, without changing anything that's great about the game at all. Only real gameplay change is the ability to repair stuff, which comes balanced money-wise. I think you can import saved characters into it (I hope), and it just looks brilliant, so definitely go check it out.
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Yea I'm playing it now with Complete and the weapon damage mod that is optional and it's great.
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I'm not a big fan of some of the new scopes for complete - they have a bit of a rugged look which reduces visibility some - but that's only a problem in the early game, and since you only have the flashlight and the sucky night vision v1 at that point, you can't see anything at night anyways.
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alright, i downloaded Stalker Compete, it looks really awesome. unfortunately, i downloaded the World Wide version of patch 1.0005 or whatever, instead of the US version, so I can't use it yet.
also i can't even play Minecraft offline yet since i don't have Flash or Java or whatever it is it needs to run. derp. computing without the internet is hard.
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It's Java that it runs with. Not Flash. Minecraft only requires the 1.5 JRE (Java Runtime Environment) to run, I think. You don't need 1.6 or a full JDK (Java Development Kit). Hopefully you can get that going and finally play Minecraft again. There's been quite a lot added, and soon we can have pet wolves.
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yeah, okay Stalker Complete is the shit. it's so much prettier and NPCs are actually capable of buying guns and crap from you so no more running all the way back to the Trader chugging energy drinks to make a few bucks and unload my inventory! woo
i actually had to turn the settings down to "high" to get it to run buttery smooth, but i didn't notice any appreciable difference in quality :-P
i think i might actually be inspired to see more than the first 1/5 of the story this time!
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The fact that they can play more than two songs on their guitars help a lot.
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yeah, the new songs are awesome.
i actually toggled crouch by a campfire last night and just sat there letting them jam out for a while while i smoked some weed and cleaned up my room, it was super
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Man, I might have to check it out again then. I liked Stalker a lot to begin with but tired of it pretty quickly for some reason. Maybe this'll help
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Hoorah, my computer now BSODs and resets every time it tries to start up Windows XP
Might be the IDE hard drive which I'm using for the OS. Might be dying.
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Try Safe Mode or Last Known Good Configuration. If either work, System Restore to a couple weeks ago. If not, unfortunately you're probably hosed. If you get a new hard drive and install to it, you can most likely recover all your files off the bad drive.
1 Terabyte 7200 RPM hard drives are pretty cheap nowadays...
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Last Known Good Config and Safe Mode also BSODs.
I might get a Live CD and then just move everything away from the old IDE to my new SATA and then nuke the damn thing by reformatting
Might as well get another terabyte and leave a separate partition for the OS.
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posting from my newly built computer!
i had it working for like a week but our internet was out, but now it's back and I'm borrowing a wirelss usb adapter, so here i am on the internet in my bed, on my 37" tv with minecraft in another window
:mrgreen: can't form sentences too happy
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Man, I might have to check it out again then. I liked Stalker a lot to begin with but tired of it pretty quickly for some reason. Maybe this'll help
Check out Call of Pripyat if you haven't already. It took them 3 games to make a game without tremendously glaring design flaws (though there isn't quite the "holy shit" factor of playing the game for the first time)