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Fun Stuff => CHATTER => Topic started by: GarandMarine on 03 Mar 2014, 04:25

Title: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 03 Mar 2014, 04:25
Your morning dose of girl power:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/1970846_646618352041148_1958904722_n.jpg)

"The Nazis called them 'Night Witches' because the whooshing noise their plywood and canvas airplanes made reminded the Germans of the sound of a witch’s broomstick. The Russian women who piloted those planes, onetime crop dusters, took it as a compliment. In 30,000 missions over four years, they dumped 23,000 tons of bombs on the German invaders, ultimately helping to chase them back to Berlin. Any German pilot who downed a 'witch' was awarded an Iron Cross.

These young heroines, all volunteers and most in their teens and early 20s, became legends of World War II but are now largely forgotten. Flying only in the dark, they had no parachutes, guns, radios or radar, only maps and compasses. If hit by tracer bullets, their planes would burn like sheets of paper."

So begins a NY Times tribute to one of the most famous "Night Witches," Nadezhda Popova, pictured here. Popova, who flew 852 missions during the war, passed away this past year at the age of 91. To read more about her incredible story, visit http://nyti.ms/JbnOMC

While there aren't any books available for young readers about these courageous women, there are several books for older readers about the role of Russian women combat pilots during WWII including "Flying for Her Country: The American and Soviet Women Military Pilots of World War II" (http://amzn.to/1mTMad9), "Wings, Women, and War: Soviet Airwomen in World War II Combat" (http://amzn.to/1fyPOs8), "A Dance with Death: Soviet Airwomen in World War II" (http://amzn.to/1jJb79N), "Red Sky, Black Death: A Soviet Woman Pilot's Memoir of the Eastern Front" (http://amzn.to/NhxvM4).

For an excellent documentary for ages 10 and up about the WASPs, the American women flyers of WWII, check out "Fly Girls," at http://www.amightygirl.com/american-experience-fly-girls

For more true stories of courageous women heroes of WWII, check out the inspiring book for ages 13 and up "Women Heroes of World War II: 26 Stories of Espionage, Sabotage, Resistance, and Rescue" at http://www.amightygirl.com/women-heroes-of-world-war-ii

For two highly recommended novels, both for ages 13 and up, about women resistance fighters of WWII, check out "Code Name Verity" (http://www.amightygirl.com/code-name-verity) and "Rose Under Fire" (http://www.amightygirl.com/rose-under-fire).

For stories for all ages about girls and women living through the WWII period, visit our "WWII / Holocaust" section at http://www.amightygirl.com/books/history-biography/history-world?cat=186

And, to introduce your kids to more famous female flyers like Amelia Earhart, Bessie Coleman, and Harriet Quimby, visit A Mighty Girl's "Planes" section at http://www.amightygirl.com/books/general-interest/transportation?cat=129
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 04 Mar 2014, 14:05
Nadezhda Popova got an obituary in The Economist last year too. (http://www.economist.com/node/21581962/print)

In the interests of balance: Hanna Reitsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanna_Reitsch). Such courage and skill is worthy of acknowledgement, even in the service of so vile a cause.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 04 Mar 2014, 14:20
There's a number of famous Nazi heroes who's exploits and skill as soldiers and warriors I quite admire. Much as I despise their politics.

I have two regrets about Field Marshal Erwin Rommel. 1. I never got to meet the man, and 2. That he wasn't on our side.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 04 Mar 2014, 18:14
Rommel was one of their better Officers in many respects, but there is the school of thought that his reputation may have been blown out off proportion.  Probably the same could be said for people on both sides, Monty and Patton come to mind.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 04 Mar 2014, 19:17
Having read his book I quite disagree, I'd also say his actions with the 7th Panzer during the Blitzkrieg (his first EVER armor/cav command) speak for themselves to say nothing of the DAK. I'm also remembering the statistic that no unit under his command was ever accused of a war crime, and Rommel himself didn't join the NSDAP until he was forced to as part of his promotion to Field Marshal.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: BeoPuppy on 04 Mar 2014, 23:26
He just helped create the opportunity for the nazi's to commit genocide. He might not have been a big nazi himself but he sure did nothing to oppose them. May his name and memory be erased form history.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Nikolai on 05 Mar 2014, 02:43
Not likely, as the US Army is fond of quoting him in doctrine.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Mar 2014, 05:03
Genghis Khan was a literal monster that would make Hitler wet his frilly lace undergarments and he's still around. Also liberally quoted and ripped off in U.S. Combat Doctrine (Maneuver Warfare? ALL OF THAT is based off tactics of the Mongols)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Mar 2014, 07:40
There are plenty of examples of brave men and women who fought well for bad causes. For example, I have a fascination for the Confederate Navy - they came up with some truly innovative ship designs, largely out of necessity as they were building their navy almost entirely from scratch. And yes, the cause they served was a terrible one. That doesn't mean they should be erased from history.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 05 Mar 2014, 09:12
How about Lt Gen Lewis "Chesty" Puller?  The guy has basically attained mythic status in the Marine Corps.  How the hell do we not have a movie or miniseries about him yet?
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Mar 2014, 09:17
basically? Fuck that. The man is the Marine equivalent of a Catholic Saint. If not Jesus himself. Chesty's shown up in a couple pieces of media, but generally I think it's a fear thing. If you get it right you're golden. If you get it wrong you're going to piss off the entire Marine Corps.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 05 Mar 2014, 11:08
yeah. Hollyweird aint got the guts to do a Chesty Puller movie... especially not with 20,000 Marines within driving distance.


LOL.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 05 Mar 2014, 13:25
On the other hand, some people deserve their reputations.


Sepp Deitrich.  Brilliant Tank commander, thorough going Nazi bastard.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Mar 2014, 17:32
Otto Carius totally deserves his rep. Hans Ulrich Rudel too. The former was not a Nazi, though he fought for the Reich... the latter says he wasn't but considering he headed to Argentina... *shrug*
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Mar 2014, 22:20
A friendly reminder from Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 24 Mar 2014, 14:43
The Confederate Rebel Yell
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/3play_1/what-did-the-rebel-yell-sound-like/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/3play_1/what-did-the-rebel-yell-sound-like/?no-ist)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 24 Mar 2014, 16:26
With a rebel yell, she cries more, more, more....
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: HauntingPoem on 24 Mar 2014, 22:35
Just incase you didn't know, THe IL2 was the aircraft flown by the women in the OP.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 25 Mar 2014, 04:10
The 588th Night Bomber Regiment (Night Witches) did not fly the IL-2 Shturmovik fighter bomber but rather Po-2 biplanes.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 25 Mar 2014, 08:33
IIRC, they also killed their engines as they approached their targets to increase the element of surprise, and then fired them up after dropping their payloads and got out before AA could respond.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 25 Mar 2014, 09:07
Yep, that's where the Night Witches label came from, the whispering canvas sounded like a witch's broom.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Patrick on 25 Mar 2014, 15:44
God damn that made me shiver just reading that. Fucking terrifying.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 30 May 2014, 04:26
Loath as I am to link the O'Reilly factor this clip is just kinda sad. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/142510-memorial-day-reporter-asks-beachgoers-military-history-questions-answers-appalling/
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 30 May 2014, 11:40
Today in history...
30 May 1431:  At Rouen in English-controlled Normandy, Joan of Arc, the peasant girl who became the savior of France, is burned at the stake for heresy.

Joan was born in 1412, the daughter of a tenant farmer at Domremy, on the borders of the duchies of Bar and Lorraine. In 1415, the Hundred Years War between England and France entered a crucial phase when the young King Henry V of England invaded France and won a series of decisive victories against the forces of King Charles VI. By the time of Henry's death in August 1422, the English and their French-Burgundian allies controlled Aquitaine and most of northern France, including Paris. Charles VI, long incapacitated, died one month later, and his son, Charles, regent from 1418, prepared to take the throne. However, Reims, the traditional city of French coronation, was held by the Anglo-Burgundians, and the Dauphin (heir apparent to the French throne) remained uncrowned. Meanwhile, King Henry VI of England, the infant son of Henry V and Catherine of Valois, the daughter of Charles VI, was proclaimed king of France by the English.

Joan's village of Domremy lay on the frontier between the France of the Dauphin and that of the Anglo-Burgundians. In the midst of this unstable environment, Joan began hearing "voices" of three Christian saints—St. Michael, St. Catherine, and St. Margaret. When she was about 16, these voices exhorted her to aid the Dauphin in capturing Reims and therefore the French throne. In May 1428, she traveled to Vaucouleurs, a stronghold of the Dauphin, and told the captain of the garrison of her visions. Disbelieving the young peasant girl, he sent her home. In January 1429, she returned, and the captain, impressed by her piety and determination, agreed to allow her passage to the Dauphin at Chinon.

Dressed in men's clothes and accompanied by six soldiers, she reached the Dauphin's castle at Chinon in February 1429 and was granted an audience. Charles hid himself among his courtiers, but Joan immediately picked him out and informed him of her divine mission. For several weeks, Charles had Joan questioned by theologians at Poitiers, who concluded that, given his desperate straits, the Dauphin would be well-advised to make use of this strange and charismatic girl.

Charles furnished her with a small army, and on April 27, 1429, she set out for Orleans, besieged by the English since October 1428. On April 29, as a French sortie distracted the English troops on the west side of Orleans, Joan entered unopposed by its eastern gate. She brought greatly needed supplies and reinforcements and inspired the French to a passionate resistance. She personally led the charge in several battles and on May 7 was struck by an arrow. After quickly dressing her wound, she returned to the fight, and the French won the day. On May 8, the English retreated from Orleans.

During the next five weeks, Joan and the French commanders led the French into a string of stunning victories over the English. On July 16, the royal army reached Reims, which opened its gates to Joan and the Dauphin. The next day, Charles VII was crowned king of France, with Joan standing nearby holding up her standard: an image of Christ in judgment. After the ceremony, she knelt before Charles, joyously calling him king for the first time.

On September 8, the king and Joan attacked Paris. During the battle, Joan carried her standard up to the earthworks and called on the Parisians to surrender the city to the king of France. She was wounded but continued to rally the king's troops until Charles ordered an end to the unsuccessful siege. That year, she led several more small campaigns, capturing the town of Saint-Pierre-le-Moitier. In December, Charles ennobled Joan, her parents, and her brothers.

In May 1430, the Burgundians laid siege to Compiegne, and Joan stole into the town under the cover of darkness to aid in its defense. On May 23, while leading a sortie against the Burgundians, she was captured. The Burgundians sold her to the English, and in March 1431 she went on trial before ecclesiastical authorities in Rouen on charges of heresy. Her most serious crime, according to the tribunal, was her rejection of church authority in favor of direct inspiration from God. After refusing to submit to the church, her sentence was read on May 24: She was to be turned over to secular authorities and executed. Reacting with horror to the pronouncement, Joan agreed to recant and was condemned instead to perpetual imprisonment.

Ordered to put on women's clothes, she obeyed, but a few days later the judges went to her cell and found her dressed again in male attire. Questioned, she told them that St. Catherine and St. Margaret had reproached her for giving in to the church against their will. She was found to be a relapsed heretic and on May 29 ordered handed over to secular officials. On May 30, Joan, 19 years old, was burned at the stake at the Place du Vieux-Marche in Rouen. Before the pyre was lit, she instructed a priest to hold high a crucifix for her to see and to shout out prayers loud enough to be heard above the roar of the flames.

As a source of military inspiration, Joan of Arc helped turn the Hundred Years War firmly in France's favor. By 1453, Charles VII had reconquered all of France except for Calais, which the English relinquished in 1558. In 1920, Joan of Arc, one of the great heroes of French history, was recognized as a Christian saint by the Roman Catholic Church. Her feast day is May 30.

Thank you, History Channel:  http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 30 May 2014, 16:01
By 1453, Charles VII had reconquered all of France except for Calais, which

...had grown a moustache and dyed its hair, making it difficult for him to find.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 30 May 2014, 16:05
Thanks Groggy! Joan was my patron saint when I was still Catholic.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 30 May 2014, 16:51
Loath as I am to link the O'Reilly factor this clip is just kinda sad. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/142510-memorial-day-reporter-asks-beachgoers-military-history-questions-answers-appalling/
It is sad that America's education system has so obviously failed some young people, but judging these no-doubt-edited answers as "appalling" (see the URL), is heavily freighted with what Mr. O'Reilly presumably thinks is worth knowing. I wonder, for example, if that smug douche with the microphone knows after whom the chemical element Meitnerium is named*, or if he could reel off an explanation of Avogadro's Law if put on the spot on his day off? If he could not do these things, would he be more or less "appalling" than the people he and Mr. O'Reilly decided to hold up to ridicule?

(click to show/hide)

I was struck by the provincialism of the questions too. To "Who won the Civil War?" I would have answered "Which one? If you mean the American Civil War, the Union won". To me, "the Civil War" was won by Mao Zedong's Communists. Despite being foreign to the USA, I had no difficulty answering the questions correctly, but I wonder if microphone-man could as accurately give an account of major events of the Second Sino-Japanese War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War), or of the Battle of Milne Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Milne_Bay), for example.

Edit: Thinking about that clip again, the question "Who won the Cold War?", to which apparently the correct answer is "We did!", exhibits even worse parochialism than the American Civil War question since "we" apparently means America. "Which dictator did the US topple in Iraq?" is another example. Australian servicemen died in the Cold War conflicts in Korea and Vietnam, for example, and served in Iraq (as did those from other members of the "Coalition of the Willing"), and yet O'Reilly's narrative airbrushes out the contribution of the USA's allies in both conflicts. That is a particularly dubious view in the case of the Cold War, which was a long-term military/economic/political contest between large multinational alliances, each headed by a superpower.

I suppose the idea is that one should be educated well enough to parrot a cartoon version of history, but not enough to recognise that that is what it is. Yes, I know, it's Bill O'Reilly... I suppose I should not expect too much.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 31 May 2014, 04:30
Asking Americans questions in America, one can reasonably infer that one is asking about American history. If you were canvassing in Shanghai the Civil War would of course refer to China's, as would any give revolution, so if you wanted to ask about the American, French or Bolshevik (Russian) revolutions you'd specify. Similarly our Civil War is the "Civil War" (or the War Between the States/War of Northern Aggression depending on where in the area you are) and the revolution is simply the revolution of the war of independence. We have no need to clarify because it's our history. If we're talking about the October or French revolutions we too will clarify. With some small exception in certain Irish neighborhoods where the various Irish Rebellions and Revolutions are talked about in a similar manner over pints and toasting the 'Ra. (and not even that much of that any more, 9/11 cost the remnants of the IRA a lot of the last of their dwindling Irish-American support, that said remanents are just drugging running gangsters now doesn't help them either)

I thought the "We Did" as a "correct" response was more or less a "pity, correct" then any indication of actual rightness. Though the argument could be advanced that while Korea and Vietnam existed within the greater context of the war neither did much to "win" the cold war, but American defense spending, in "winning" the arms race broke the Soviet Union's financial back, enabling victory, meaning the U.S. "won" the Cold War.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 31 May 2014, 19:33
I watched an Australian Lt. Col. beat a USMC major in a push up contest a few weeks ago.

as for the American education system?





please don't ask me to jump on that pulpit:  my blood pressure can't handle it.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 02 Jun 2014, 18:33
Aren't you glad voter turnout is less than 50%?

Isn't it amazing there are no fat women at that beach?
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 02 Jun 2014, 18:37
I used to think people for not voting.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 02 Jun 2014, 19:28
So your the Telepath that keeps the turnout low huh?


:-D   ;)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 02 Jun 2014, 22:12
....yes. I take full credit for that. I think I deserve a medal of some kind for my selfless service.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 03 Jun 2014, 14:04
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090611092330/babylon5/images/2/26/Psicorp_wiki-1.png)


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)

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)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 04 Jun 2014, 11:17
http://www.military1.com/army/article/462177-us-sending-650-troops-to-re-enact-d-day
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Jun 2014, 22:23
0000  Universal Coordinated Time - 6 June 1944. Men of the American 82nd and 101st Airborne divisions, the British 6th Airborne division, Canadian 1st Parachute division, and other allied forces began their aerial drops across Europe spearheading one of the largest military operations in human history with other 17,000 paratroopers and glider troopers. They were badly scattered, hampered by mis drops in the dark and harsh weather, but their valiant efforts disrupted German command and control across Normandy, threw their forces into disarray and made possible the landings on the beaches that would come just a few short hours later.

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10356186_10152537587965815_2474665839761844245_n.jpg)

Now. Play this on loud while reading the rest of this post.



On this day, 6 June, 1947, men of a host of Allied nations, united in Resistance to evil and tryanny in pre-dawn light and rough seas crossed the English channel towards the coast of France in what was to be the largest Amphibious invasion our world has ever seen. The British 1 Corps was assigned Juno and Sword beaches, with the 3rd Canadian Infantry, the loss of their brothers in the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division, were assigned the assault on Juno, and the British 3rd Infantry Division assigned Sword. 30 Corps was assigned Gold beach, lead in by 50th Infantry Division. The American beaches, Utah and Omaha were divided between VII Corps, spearheaded by the 4th Infantry Division, and V Corps, led by the famous Big Red One (1st Infantry Division) and the 29th Infantry Division. Over 160,000 Allied soldiers landed on the beaches of Normandy, 6 June, 1944. Many would not return, with over four thousand men KIA, and at least six thousand more wounded on D-Day alone. They died to machine gun fire and to shelling, in vicious hand to hand, many not even making it out of their landing crafts. Still others drowned in the cold waters of the English Channels when their boats came up short, dragged down into the darkness by the weights of the packs they wore and the rifles they carried. By the end of the Battle of Normandy the Allies would sustain over 200,000 casualties, including 37,000 men killed in action. By their deeds and their blood, sacrificed upon the alter of combat, so began the first steps of freeing Europe from the Nazi jackboot. The road to victory in Europe was long and bloody, but in the end we must look back and consider, that so much of what we have today as a free world came down to a single day of fighting over six miles of beach in France. On this day, in silent memory, it is only right that we be grateful to the sacrifices that have been made so that we can live as we do.

"They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate." — President Franklin D. Roosevelt, radio broadcast, June 6, 1944

Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force! You are about to embark upon a great crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers in arms on other fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world... I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full victory!
                                                 -Gen Dwight D. Eisenhower

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/q79/s720x720/10423742_10152537668905815_8718927337698684671_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10308552_10152537669085815_6793718644471826452_n.jpg)



And I shall end, once again, with the Green Fields of France.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Jun 2014, 22:37
Seemingly Inspired by Akima's WW1 battlefield photo post earlier.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/d-day-landing-sites-then-now-normandy-beaches-1944-70-years-later-1450286

Today, as many around the world prepare to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the landings, pictures of tourists soaking up the sun on Normandy's beaches stand in stark contrast to images taken around the time of the invasion.

Reuters photographer Chris Helgren compiled archive pictures taken during the invasion and went back to the same places to photograph them as they appear today.

(Pictures in spoilers, so I don't kill the mobile users)

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Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 06 Jun 2014, 04:45
Good article here about Obscure facts about the Landings.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/10874340/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-D-Day-landings.html

Quote
1. Lieutenant James Doohan of the Winnipeg Rifles was shot in the hand and chest on D-Day. A silver cigarette case stopped the bullet to the chest, but the shot to his hand caused him to lose a finger.
Doohan later became known to generations of TV viewers as the actor who played Scottie in Star Trek. While on camera, he always tried to hide his injured hand.


2. Celebrated war photographer Robert Capa was in the second wave of troops to land at Omaha Beach. His pictures of the event are known as The Magnificent Eleven – a title that reflects their number. Despite taking two reels of film, totalling 106 pictures, only 11 survived after 16-year-old darkroom assistant Dennis Banks dried them at too high a temperature.

3. Juan Pujol was a double agent working for MI5, who helped convince the Germans that D-Day wouldn’t be in June. Bizarrely, his first code name was BOVRIL – but that was soon changed to GARBO as he was such a good actor. GARBO fooled the Germans so completely, Hitler awarded him the Iron Cross. As he was living in Hendon at the time, Pujol asked if they could post it to him.

4. On the morning of D-Day, J.D. Salinger landed on Omaha Beach with six chapters of his unfinished novel Catcher in the Rye in his backpack. In the afternoon, Evelyn Waugh, recuperating in Devon after injuring his leg in paratrooper training, finished the final chapter of his novel Brideshead Revisited.

5. The giant wall map used by General Eisenhower and General Montgomery at their HQ Southwick House was made by toy maker Chad Valley.

6. Lord Lovat led the British 1st Special Service Brigade. An inspiring but eccentric figure, he landed on Sword Beach wearing hunting brogues and carrying a wading stick used for salmon fishing.
Working as an adviser on the film The Longest Day, Lovat woke up in a taxi surrounded by German troops and instinctively dived out of the car, but then realised they were just extras.

7. On the morning of D-Day, the House of Commons debated whether office cleaners should no longer be called ‘charladies.’
8. News of D-Day reached POW camp Colditz via an illegal radio hidden in an attic. To avoid detection, the POWs used shoes with no tread that left no mark in the attic’s dust.

On hearing the news, POW Cenek Chaloupka vowed that if the war wasn’t over by December he’d run round the courtyard naked. On Christmas Eve 1944, Chaloupka ran round it twice. It was -7 degrees Celsius.

9. Like many troops, Lieutenant Herbert Jalland of the Durham Light Infantry ran onto Gold Beach wearing pyjamas underneath his battledress, in order to prevent chafing from his backpack.

10. General Montgomery helped mastermind D-Day, the largest invasion the world had ever seen. His diary entry for the day read: ‘Invaded Normandy; left Portsmouth 10.30.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 06 Jun 2014, 19:40
My maternal grandfather was involved in D-Day, but never even made it to the beach.

the culprit?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/DD-Tank.jpg)

The Sherman Dual Drive "Swimming" Tank, that didn't.
check out the 741st Tank Btln at Omaha Beach.
27 of 29 never made it ashore, most of which sank without ever taking fire.

Grandpa finally set foot on France about three days later with a brand new Sherman.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 07 Jun 2014, 15:23
Probably the only place where the DD's were a total failure if memory serves.

I think they worked out there were two reasons they failed at Omaha

1) They wound up being launched too far out - more than 1000 yards sooner than they should have been

2) They got caught in a series of cross current waves which caused them to be swamped.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 07 Jun 2014, 21:33
Additionally:
they were designed for wave action of 12"-18"
on D-Day, they faced waves of 5' - 6'

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Jun 2014, 12:27
Yes they were, but even so if you get hit by waves that come from one direction then suddenly hit you from another when you are not expecting it in something that, basically, has poor stability issues and seakeeping capabilities in the first place, it's going to cause you issues - let alone the fact they were launched father out than they should have been, it's no wonder they went under.

Remember, Omaha was the only Beach where none of the assigned DD Tanks in the first wave reached the shore on D-Day.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 08 Jun 2014, 20:26
I know.
D-Day was one of the stories that Gpa didn't mind talking about.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 19 Jun 2014, 15:58
(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10387539_10152062585095194_7093502269191999215_n.jpg)

Quote
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as an Automatic Rifleman with Company F, 2d Battalion, 9th Marines, Regimental Combat Team 1, 1st Marine Division (Forward), I Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), in Helmand Province, Afghanistan, in support of Operation ENDURING FREEDOM on 21 November 2010. Lance Corporal Carpenter was a member of a platoon-sized coalition force, comprised of two reinforced Marine rifle squads partnered with an Afghan National Army squad. The platoon had established Patrol Base Dakota two days earlier in a small village in the Marjah District in order to disrupt enemy activity and provide security for the local Afghan population. Lance Corporal Carpenter and a fellow Marine were manning a rooftop security position on the perimeter of Patrol Base Dakota when the enemy initiated a daylight attack with hand grenades, one of which landed inside their sandbagged position. Without hesitation and with complete disregard for their own safety, Lance Corporal Carpenter moved toward the grenade in an attempt to shield his fellow Marine from the deadly blast. When the grenade detonated, his body absorbed the brunt of the blast, severely wounding him, but saving the live of his fellow Marine. By his undaunted courage, bold fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty in the face of almost certain death, Lance Corporal Carpenter reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service

Lance Corporals getting shit done.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Jun 2014, 17:59
He deserves every damn medal on his chest.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Patrick on 21 Jun 2014, 04:02
I hereby resolve to never feel like I'm having a bad day ever again, no matter how shit it gets.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 21 Jun 2014, 08:13
That's the thing that strikes me most about Carpenter. Every photo he takes he's smiling. That's indomitable spirit right there. You can't kill that.

For questions about how the Corps treats our own please see the following link:
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/06/kyle-carpenter-questions-medal-of-honor/

Quote
1. Is there any advice you have for a young infantry lance corporal on how to make rank without actually throwing themselves on a piece of live ordnance?

2. What happened to your face? Do you blame Batman or Commissioner Gordon?

1. is just sad and true, it's a bitch for a Lance Corporal to get promoted in any MOS, but especially the infantry. 2, as well as the other 21 questions are just how we do. We're family and as such we're going to rip on you when you're okay, and shore you up when you aren't.

Cept this one:
Quote
17. Have you ever caused a Victoria’s Secret store to collapse from the sheer mass of panties dropping all at once?

That's just a fact of life. Marine Corps Dress Blues. Ain't a thing in the world like'em.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 22 Jun 2014, 23:10
I hereby resolve to never feel like I'm having a bad day ever again, no matter how shit it gets.
I'm simply happy that he is alive. I know that is a bit "motherhood", but...
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 24 Jun 2014, 20:27
(https://i.imgur.com/4gjAhm1.jpg)
Quote
American soldiers, members of Maryland's 117th Trench Mortar Battery, operating a trench mortar. This gun and crew kept up a continuous fire throughout the raid of March 4, 1918 in Badonviller, Muerthe et Modselle, France.
Go Maryland.  I had no idea they were still using the different states to signify where the regiment was from like from the ACW.  Thought they intermixed everyone (as far as different states go).  Perhaps Maryland conscripts?  I'll have to look into it more.

(https://i.imgur.com/ejBLiwF.jpg)
Quote
A German dog hospital, treating wounded dispatch dogs coming from the front, ca. 1918.

(https://i.imgur.com/vVTeAqp.jpg)
Quote
The Salonica (Macedonian) front, Indian troops at a Gas mask drill. Allied forces joined with Serbs to battle armies of the Central Powers and force a stable front throughout most of the war.
You know, in school the Eastern front wasn't mentioned much.  Even if the Western front Allies sent troops over there.  The French and British sent many conscripted soldiers from southeast Asia and India to fight in what is today Macedonia, along with other theaters of war.


Some more photos from the Great War (https://imgur.com/gallery/A53hz) that started 100 years ago.

Quote
Wars not make one great.- Yoda
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 24 Jun 2014, 22:41
(https://i.imgur.com/4gjAhm1.jpg)
Quote
American soldiers, members of Maryland's 117th Trench Mortar Battery, operating a trench mortar. This gun and crew kept up a continuous fire throughout the raid of March 4, 1918 in Badonviller, Muerthe et Modselle, France.
Go Maryland.  I had no idea they were still using the different states to signify where the regiment was from like from the ACW.  Thought they intermixed everyone (as far as different states go).  Perhaps Maryland conscripts?  I'll have to look into it more.

Maryland Army National Guard actually. Which explains the state designator. It was only a battery (Company, so about 200 men) and was under the 42nd Infantry Division when they were activated for WW1.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 03 Aug 2014, 10:58
http://imgur.com/gallery/DGrzs

This is a pretty striking progression of military kit over the centuries.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 03 Aug 2014, 18:13
Time to drop some motivation and knowledge on you fuckers with your warrior of the week good to go? This week's individual is another badass Suomi (Finnish if you're not paying attention) warrior man god from World War Two, because apparently the Finns invented that freaking daggone super soldier serum from the Captain America comics and standard putting it in formula bottles. Lauri Allan Törni was a soldier who fought under three flags for three different armies. Starting off as an officer of the Finnish national guard, Lauri started his career of stomping fresh mud holes into communists (especially Russians) during the Winter War, and continued on through the Continuation War.

Törni's fame was mostly made during the aforementioned Continuation War of 41-44 between the USSR and Finland, in 1943, as a young officer, Törni lead a deep penetration infantry unit informally named Detachment Törni, the unit and Törni's reputation for combat effectiveness was such that the Soviet Army had a bounty on Törni's head for three million Finnish marks. Törni received the Mannerheim Cross on 9 July 1944. In September 44 Finland struck a peace treaty with the Soviet Union, and much of the Finnish Army was demobilized, leaving Törni unemployed. He was recruited by a pro German resistance movement in Finland, and left for saboteur training in case Finland was later occupied by the Soviets, the training ended early in March of that year, and unable to secure transport home, Törni joined a German unit of the Waffen SS to continue feeding his thirst for Russian blood. He surrendered with his unit to American and British troops in the late stages of the war and returned to Finland in June 1945 after escaping a British POW camp.

Törni was arrested by the Finnish state police while attempting to rejoin his family in Helsinki, he escaped and was recaptured in April 1946, and tried for treason for joining the German army, he received a six year sentence in January 1947, and after a brief escape was granted a pardon in December 1948 by the Finnish President.

After a series of misadventures Törni ended up in the United States and joined the United States Army in 1954 under the name Larry Thorne. Private Thorne quickly found himself in Special Forces, (aka the Green Berets). Törni went to OCS and was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant in the Signal Corps in 1957, and received his regular commission and a promotion to Captain in 1960. During the late 50s and early 60s, Törni served with the 10th Special Forces Group in Germany before deploying to the Republic of Vietnam in 1963 to support Vietnamese forces there along with SFD A-734 (Special Forces Detachment, one of the famous "A teams"). Törni would go on to earn the Bronze Star medal and two Purple hearts during his first tour.

Törni's second tour in Vietnam began in February 1965 with the 5th Special Forces group. On 18 October 1965 while on a classified mission, his Vietnam Airforce CH-34 helicopter crashed in a mountainous area roughly twenty five miles from Da Nang. Rescue teams were unable to locate the crash site. Shortly after his disappearance Törni was promoted to the rank of Major.

Törni was listed as Missing In Action until a Joint Task Force-Full Accounting team located his remains in 1999 and repatriated to the United States following a ceremony at Hanoi's Noi Bai International Airport with the U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and Ambassador to Vietnam Pete Peterson. Törni was officially identified in 2003, and was buried with full military honors on 26 June 2003 at Arlington National Cemetery (section 60, Tombstone 8136 if you're in the area and want to visit).

So let's recap. Three armies, four wars and a chest full of metal and an absolutely legendary soldier, both in his homeland and in the United States, particularly in the Army Special Forces community. He has a building named after him, the Larry Thorne Headquarters Building, 10th SFG(A), Fort Carson, Colorado. 10th Group further honors him yearly by presenting the Larry Thorne Award to the best Operational Detachment-Alpha in the command.

Fucking motivating is not? Oh and Sabaton did a song celebrating his glorious ass kicking abilities which is always a nice bonus.

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 04 Aug 2014, 16:34
British Terror Weapons of WW1

Ladies and Gentlemen, The Liven's Large Gallery flame Projector (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQlSutYJsV8)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 04 Aug 2014, 21:00
Whelp. I had to clean my shorts out. Fuckin'A.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGxP7F2GUwY

Here's a link to the full documentary that's from.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 05 Aug 2014, 17:04
Yeah, was watching that on BBC Knowledge when I Posted the Vid.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 05 Aug 2014, 20:10
today: 100th anniversary of the Battle for Liege.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/german-assault-on-liege-begins-first-battle-of-world-war-i

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 06 Aug 2014, 14:53
Marine Corps Special Operations Command is being renamed and realigned with the Marine Raider Battalions and Regiments of WW2.

http://www.oafnation.com/marines/2014/8/6/-marine-raidersrenamed

This is hardcore moto at it's finest.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 06 Aug 2014, 19:01
6 AUG 1945.

first ever use of an Atomic bomb in anger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

69 years ago.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 16 Sep 2014, 09:15
I've been watching a long WW1 documentary and came across the Battle of Tsingtao.  Tsingtao being a German naval base of operations in the pacific.  The Brits needed help and asked the growing power of Japan to ally with them in this battle.  On the 2nd of September 1914 the Japanese Imperial Army sent 60,000 troops to meet up with the 2,000 British troops to siege Tsingtao.  The Germans had around 4,500 troops.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/BritishTroopsArriveTsingtao1914.jpg)

The siege began on October 31st and for a solid week the Japanese battered the defenses of Tsingtao.  The Germans sneered at the British forces, making the Japanese do their dirty work.  During the victory parade through Tsingtao, German officers ordered their troops to turn their backs on the passing British forces.  The British high officer complained to the Japanese commander who replied "Well, we cannot repeat the whole procession because of that."  Capturing Tsingtao would be a spring board later for Japan's empire building.  Within weeks demanding territory and trading rights in China and gaining all of the German colonies and territories north of the equator.  Australia and New Zealand took the ones in the south. The Americans were not too happy about the British empowering the Japanese in the pacific.

(http://www.cityofart.net/bship/jse_siege_gun_qingdao.jpg)

The British were hoping to Neutralize the German fleet in the pacific but most of their cruisers got away and wreaked havoc on the seas.  The Kaiser gave them full authority to do what they wish, basically making them well armed privateers.

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 16 Sep 2014, 16:26
The Americans were not too happy about the British empowering the Japanese in the pacific.
I think this is an ahistorical judgement made by peering through the lens of Pearl Harbour. There is little evidence that the US government had any real qualms about Japanese imperialism in China in 1914, or in 1917 when the Lancing-Ishii Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lansing%E2%80%93Ishii_Agreement) included the USA's acknowledgement of Japan's "special status" in China, or 1919 when Woodrow Wilson signed off on the Treaty of Versailles which, among its many iniquities, handed over a chunk of China to Imperial Japan.

I think it is also questionable to call the capture of Tsingtao (Qingdao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qingdao) now) the springboard for Japanese empire-building. I would look to the annexation of Korea, from which Japan launched its later invasion of China. Japan's "protectorate" over Korea was legitimised by the Treaty of Portsmouth (1905, full annexation followed in 1910) negotiated with the mediation of US President Theodore Roosevelt, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for his role. Irony.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 17 Sep 2014, 08:23
The Americans were not too happy about the British empowering the Japanese in the pacific.
I think this is an ahistorical judgement made by peering through the lens of Pearl Harbour.
Quote
I think it is also questionable to call the capture of Tsingtao (Qingdao now) the springboard for Japanese empire-building.
Hehe the weird thing is, it was a British documentary.  :-P  But I do agree with everything you've stated.  Based off U.S. foreign policy of the time they probably didn't really give a damn.

As for Japan's Imperialism:
1) I think it amazing that the British even reached out to the Japanese but was not surprised they kept their troops in reserve.

2) I do not know much about the Japanese occupation/annexation of Korea, other than the treaties signed, but I remember reading that the need for Japanese expansion into Korea and Manchuria was for the raw materials needed to fuel their industrialization. Now I know that was their reason in 1931 to invade Manchuria, but I cannot find much on why they annexed Kora.  I forget if it was a raw material thing or setting up factories, gaining an agricultural area to feed the growing empire, or a combination of all 3. 

Imperialism from the mid 1800s to the end of WW2 is a bit of history that always fascinates me.  I would be lying if playing Victoria 2 didn't increase my curiosity, especially with Japan's industrialization and then imperialism (and China's attempt at westernization culminating into a few revolutions).  I remember back in college taking a Chinese Revolution class (that I had to drop due to a schedule conflict) that had its main book (forgot the name) and the first few chapters was talking about how the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese westernized/modernized/industrialized and how their respective cultures either hindered or enhanced this change.  It was a really great read but I never got a chance to get beyond chapter 3 or 4 before i turned the book back in.

Long story short.  Yay history.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 18 Sep 2014, 06:30
1) I think it amazing that the British even reached out to the Japanese but was not surprised they kept their troops in reserve.
Japan was Britain's ally at the time, and had declared war on Germany in August 1914. The British rather regarded Japan as the Great Britain of Asia. You know, plucky little island nation off the coast of a large continent, pioneer of industrialisation in its region, sea-faring people with a fine navy (substantially trained and equipped by Britain) and so on. When Admiral Togo attacked the Russian fleet at Port Arthur on 9th February 1904, his actions were favourably compared in London with the Royal Navy's attacks on the Danish fleet at Copenhagen during the Napoleonic War. Britain also has a long history of recruiting allies to make up for its own relatively small army, so what could be more natural viewed in the context of the time than that they should work with the Japanese?
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 18 Sep 2014, 06:30
Side note: Have I mentioned how I love this thread isn't just me posting random military history blogs? <3
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 18 Sep 2014, 08:33
@Akima: That is a fair way to put it.  :-D  It's no wonder they had such an empire at the time.  Honestly I would really like to learn more about British and French Imperialism but haven't  had the time or where to start.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 07 Nov 2014, 14:37
Mountain pattern armor looks like a better alternative to chainmail.  Would love to see a video of how both stack up to a crossbow bolt hit.  Both are flexible but Mountain pattern doesn't have holes like chainmail.

(http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/nov/3.1.Scale.jpg)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 07 Nov 2014, 16:20
If anyone is wondering why that style of lamellar armour is called "mountain pattern", it is because the Chinese character meaning mountain is .
I do not know about its protective qualities.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: hedgie on 07 Nov 2014, 16:27
Does look rather phallic, though.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 07 Nov 2014, 20:45
Only slightly OT


Made in the day when they made Blockbusters with real extras.  Probably the closest live action sequence of a Legion deploying for battle I've ever seen.  Even Rome used CGI for it's battle sequences.  Made with the aid of the Spanish Army I believe.

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 07 Nov 2014, 21:17
The Charge of the Light brigade/Waterloo is more epic imho
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 07 Nov 2014, 22:14
Charge of the Light Brigade was at Balaclava, during the Crimean War. (1854)
Waterloo was 1815.

A distant relative of mine was Sir Lord James Scarlett.  Commander of the Heavy Brigade at Balaclava.
Commonly known as the guy who lead from the front and made his own initiative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Balaclava#Charge_of_the_Heavy_Brigade

but that was our British cousins.
In 1854, my direct ancestors where 6 meager years from the War Between the States.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 08 Nov 2014, 11:39
Eh sorry, brain no worry lol.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 08 Nov 2014, 22:15
no prob.
don't they remove 'brain' as 'excess equipment' during Boot?


;)
thanks for your service, GM.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 10 Nov 2014, 00:42
On this day, 10 November, 1775, it was resolved in the Continental Congress that two battalions of Marines be raised, Two hundred and thirty nine years later, we still stand strong.
Semper Fi.


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1800193_10152919434045815_7113520742731144570_n.jpg?oh=70e20dd414f9015dcfbef46526ab8728&oe=54E8BAE3&__gda__=1428087260_c04687e887fd7adfba32e5a207b29546)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 10 Nov 2014, 11:59
Today is November 11, 2014

This day marks 100 years since the guns went silent on the western front and 'The War To End All Wars' came to an end.


Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 10 Nov 2014, 12:22
Please excuse my previous Post.


I'm having one of those mornings



Yes, I know we're four years out from that anniversary, but that does not take away the poignancy of this day.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 14 Nov 2014, 06:14
Eric Brown; legend, hero and the test pilot's test pilot. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30039300)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2014, 21:16
So I came to the conclusion that I did not know much about Napoleon Bonaparte. I do know some things (Waterloo, failed Russian invasion, french emperor, exiled twice, from Corsica, sold USA the Louisiana purchase, married someone named Josephine) but that's about the extent of it.  Being in the US he is mostly glossed over but I am aware that he had a phenomenal impact on Europe in his day and is probably more closely studied in Europe.  Hell I even have Napoleon Total War but hardly played it.  So over the past 4 days I watched a 4 part PBS documentary on the little corporal. Each about 45-50 minutes long.  Wow.  What an amazing and complex dude.

(https://i.imgur.com/1rZ1eGT.jpg)

Still a bit puzzled on the short stereotype.  He was 5'2" tall (in french measurements, making him 5'6" tall in international measurements, or 1.68m) and the average height of Frenchmen from the time was 5'5" (international units).  The British were not much taller than that either (maybe an increase average of .02m).
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 16 Dec 2014, 00:50
Yes, Napoleon Bonaparte was above average height in his era. Part comes, I think, from ignorant confusion over the difference in units. Part from misunderstanding of his nickname "le petit caporal" as "the little corporal" where "petit" was actually meant in the same way that the word is used in "petit bourgoisie", meaning "of lesser status" rather than referring to physical size. Part possibly comes from depictions of him standing with soldiers of his Imperial Guard, who were specially selected for their unusual height and wore silly hats that made them look even taller. Part might simply have been propaganda; Adolf Hitler too was depicted as being short by hostile cartoonists etc., when he was actually about average in his time.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: BeoPuppy on 16 Dec 2014, 01:19
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 16 Dec 2014, 02:57
It was almost completely propaganda. I had some sources on this somewhere...
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 17 Dec 2014, 21:14
two course I've registered for Spring semester:
American military History
and
survey of Korean and Vietnam Wars.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 18 Dec 2014, 13:35
For obvious reasons, I have an interest in the Korean War. It does not get the attention it deserves, I think. In many ways it is more relevant to problems we face today in East Asia than the later conflict in Vietnam. I'll be interested in your comments.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 18 Dec 2014, 14:11
Probably true Akima.

Korea, as a war, never gets the proper attention it deserves.

Granted, it wasn't the clusterfuck that Vietnam became, but it was still a major conflict between the east and west.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 18 Dec 2014, 14:21
I remember watching a 2 or 3 hour documentary on the Korean War (Korean War: Ice and Fire or something like that) narrated by Luke Skywalker.  Was very informative.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Dec 2014, 15:11
Meanwhile, everyone missed the 150th anniversary of one of the last major battles of the Civil War: the Battle of Nashville.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: ev4n on 19 Dec 2014, 06:46
And we're coming up on the 200th anniversary of the end of the war of 1812.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 19 Dec 2014, 13:54
Meanwhile, everyone missed the 150th anniversary of one of the last major battles of the Civil War: the Battle of Nashville.
I am probably a bad person for imagining duelling Country & Western musicians...

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 19 Dec 2014, 13:57
December 20th 1861

English transports loaded with 8,000 troops set sail for Canada so that troops are available if the "Trent Affair" is not settled without war.




For those of you unfamiliar with The Trent Affair, more info here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Affair)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 06 Jan 2015, 01:19
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10917790_10153086855505815_41912647543372011_o.jpg)

So I've been learning more about KanColle, that weird ship girl anime I found and linked in the everything else thread, and my new favorite character Yamato, one of the smaller details in her visual design (which given all the turrets and armor is pretty fucking complex already) is a signal flag for the letter Z. This lead to some rather interesting naval history!

Starting in 1905 when Admiral Togo hoisted the Z flag aboard his flagship the IJS Mikasa (三笠) before engaging the Russian Baltic fleet to signal "The Fate of the Empire of Japan rests on this single battle, all hands shall give their all." (One of many translations) similar to Nelson's famous signal "England Expects". Following the Russo-Japanese war, the next major use of the "Z" signal is credited to Admiral Nagumo of the Dai-ichi KōKū Kantai (1st Air Fleet), who ordered the Z signal hoisted (and the same flag according to some sources) on 6 December. 1941 aboard his flagship the carrier Akagi, after he had determined his strike force had achieved complete surprise over the United States Navy. As Togo's signal was common knowledge and part of the Naval tradition/lore of the IJN by this point, the signal proved to be exactly the inspiration for his men that Nagumo desired.

The Z signal would be used several more times through out the Pacific War, and was retired after the defeat of Imperial Japan in 1945. The signal has not been readopted by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force. The IJS Mikasa was heavily damaged, and sunk. She was recovered and restored as a floating museum before the outbreak of the Second World War, and was restored once again during the Occupation with the help of Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz. The Mikasa is the only surviving example of a pre-dreadnought battleship left anywhere in the world, and is currently moored in Yokosuka near the large joint naval base there.

天皇陛下万歳!
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Jimor on 23 Jan 2015, 19:51
A photographer has rescued a bunch of undeveloped WWII film (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/23/wwii-photos_n_6532592.html?1422039596) and has very carefully developed it so we can see what's been buried away for 70 years.

Full archive. (http://www.rescuedfilm.com/#!rescuedwwii/c1d05)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 24 Jan 2015, 13:23

Today, 24 January, 2015, the last of the legendary Panzer Aces, a quiet man named Otto Carius passed on to legend, a reluctant draftee into the Wehrmacht, Oberleutenant Carius was never the less an effective commander and tanker and was highly decorated for his forced service to a regime he despised. Otto Carius returned home after the war to open a small apothercary, which is still in operation to this day.

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 24 Jan 2015, 23:43
Kind of makes you wonder how long the WWII vets will be with us, when you consider that Florence Green, the last vet from WWI (member of the Women's Royal Air Force), died in 2012. I think we lose something like 600 per day in the US alone.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 25 Jan 2015, 00:02
They won't be with us much longer. I contacted Carius's surviving family with my condolences and inquired if they still had copies of his book available. So I should be receiving a signed copy of Tigers In the Mud in a few weeks. In the original German, but I can get an English edition for my reading copy... I'd been meaning to send one to him with a request for his signature... he was quite important at my work, we had just released a new miniature specifically for him... but I obviously ran out of time.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 15 Feb 2015, 13:20
Back in WWII, Joseph Medicine Crow, a member of the Crow tribe, unknowingly completed the requirements to become the last Crow War Chief (http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/11/07/joseph-medicine-crow-last-plains-indian-war-chief-turns-100-152106) while serving in Europe.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 16 Jun 2015, 11:30
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Stoon on 19 Jun 2015, 20:42
That is NOT British drill, or anywhere else in the Commonwealth (or Empire as it was called back then).  And that's not the way drill commands are given in the Commonwealth. 

Drill commands are given clearly, enunciated so they can be understood.  As far as I know the US military is the only military where drill commands are given in gibberish. 
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 20 Jun 2015, 16:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2avjVPGfYY
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Grognard on 22 Jun 2015, 18:32
today in military history, 22nd of June:

1772     A judicial ruling effectively abolishes slavery in England.
 
1807     British HMS 'Leopard' makes unprovoked attack on American USS 'Chesapeake'.

1815     Napoleon I abdicates for the second time, after Waterloo.

1876  General Alfred Terry sends Lieutenant Colonel George A. Custer to the Rosebud and Little Bighorn rivers to search for Indian villages

1911     Coronation of George V as King of Great Britain

1938  American Joe Louis floors German Max Schmeling in the first round of the heavyweight bout at Yankee Stadium 

1941     Operation Barbarossa Begins: Hitler invades the Soviet Union

1945     Okinawa secured: 110,000 Japanese troops, 100,000 civilians, 17,520 US troops died

DIED:
2001     Bertie Felstead, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, last known survivor of the Christmas Truce of 1915, aged 106.   
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 25 Jun 2015, 09:44
Extra Credits just finished a small series on the Zulu.  Worth a watch  8-)

Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 Jun 2015, 04:41

1807     British HMS 'Leopard' makes unprovoked attack on American USS 'Chesapeake'.


Revise history much there Groggy?
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 26 Jun 2015, 04:46
Chesapeake–Leopard Affair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake%E2%80%93Leopard_Affair)

Looks like the Brits did fire first.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 Jun 2015, 05:22
Someone always has to fire first, that doesn't make it unprovoked. The Chesapeake had refused to turn over deserters wanted on a warrant. Overreaction would maybe be a better description.
To be fair, unprovoked is usually a misleading term of propoganda that glosses over the nuances of the situation that it is supposed to describe.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 26 Jun 2015, 06:15
Did the "warrant" have any legal validity in the United States of America?
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 Jun 2015, 06:24
Not sure what the cross border legal arrangements would have been at that time and can only imagine that military and naval agreements might only serve to complicate rather than clarify matters. I'm not sure whether  However, the presence of a warrant indicates that the Captain of the Leopard wasn't acting unilaterally which might impact on how a diplomatic resolution may have played out. The Captain of the Chesapeake apparently ruled that out by acting unilaterally though.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 26 Jun 2015, 06:58
However, the presence of a warrant indicates that the Captain of the Leopard wasn't acting unilaterally
I am not certain that you are using the word "unilaterally" correctly. A unilateral act is not one performed without authority. A unilateral act is simply one undertaken by or on behalf of one side, or party only, without the agreement or involvement of any other. The warrant was certainly issued unilaterally, so it provides no shield to defend the captain of the Leopard from an accusation of acting unilaterally, I think.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 26 Jun 2015, 07:10
If you were a captain of a ship off the coast of your own nation and some other country's ship comes up beside you and demand to arrest some of your sailors based on a piece of paper from their own country, how would you react in the age of sail?  I'd a tell them to fuck off and tell them to contact US fleet command and have them take my sailors.

Mind you my comment is not based in patriotism. I'd think the British would do the exact same thing if a Russian ship did that to them off the coast of Australia.  Especially back before wireless instant communication was available to check with your superiors on the validity of the document.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 Jun 2015, 07:20
Yes, an inappropriate use the word.

I was intending to mean whether that, in respect to their actions, both Captain's acted independently without recourse to the broader authorities to which they were responsible.

Yes, warrants are issued unilaterally. Arrest warrants aren't really ever issued by one country on behalf of another. The existence of the warrant would have demonstrated that the Captain of the Leopard was operating under the auspices of a military order and thus not of his own agency.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 26 Jun 2015, 07:30
If you were a captain of a ship off the coast of your own nation and some other country's ship comes up beside you and demand to arrest some of your sailors based on a piece of paper from their own country, how would you react in the age of sail?  I'd a tell them to fuck off and tell them to contact US fleet command and have them take my sailors.

Mind you my comment is not based in patriotism. I'd think the British would do the exact same thing if a Russian ship did that to them off the coast of Australia.  Especially back before wireless instant communication was available to check with your superiors on the validity of the document.

I think you misunderstand the contexts of that age. Sailors weren't hired with the submission of a CV, a round of interviews, a criminal records check and the taking up of references. Desertion in those times were regarded as an act of treason and that was akin to murder. If you were presented with a warrant of arrest on an accusation that, for example, a member of your crew had murdered the quartermaster of their former vessel, you probably would have happily turned them over regardless of the provenance of the warrant. To protect an accused murderer would have severely compromised your authority as a captain which on, on a ship, would prove disasterous. You couldn't afford the mistrust such an act would engender in your crew. At the very least you would have turned the accused over to the authority of the naval offices on shore to allow them to wrangle the case while you carried on with the important business of sailing your ship as commanded.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 26 Jun 2015, 07:56
I understand what you are saying, but I still disagree.  As Captain of a military vessel everyone on board is your charge.  Having a foreign military vessel demand some of your sailors shows lack of loyalty and lose face to your own crew.  On that note, it is also considered a criminal act to hand over troops/sailors to a foreign vessel without proper permission from you own military high command.  Considering their warrant was signed by British MHC instead of US MHC it would have been wrong for him to do so.

As far as desertion, I do not think the USA commander, nor his crew would have felt the deserters were on the same rung as murderers considering they deserted one military to join theirs.  Especially if they have been top notch crew members aboard your vessel (I am not saying that was the case, this is more or less in general).  On top of that, the USA needed sailors for their fledgling navy so any experienced military sailors would probably have been welcomed.

Now I do not know what words were exchanged between the 2 commanding officers, and the British were in a state of war which makes unilateral decisions necessary, but the fact that they both didn't just pull into Norfolk's port (one of the US navy's HQ) and discuss it with the High Command seems silly.  Sure the French where in port too but its neutral ground.

I am not saying the Commodore wasn't at fault (hell he was relieved of duty, though probably more for surrendering without a fight), but the British Captain is not absolved.  Maybe they both fought in the American War of Independence as young sailors and still had animosity towards the other, or maybe the American officer was too arrogant and the British officer was too hot headed, regardless this could have been resolved without a shot fired.

I think it also came down to the feeling each country had for the other at the time.  USA didn't feel like their sovereignty was really recognized by the UK and they were being trampled on.  I can't say how the UK felt towards USA at the time.  Oh Napoleonic Wars, how crazy it was.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 05 Jul 2015, 19:34
Was reading a post on Australian History on imgur  (http://imgur.com/gallery/yW47I).  I had no idea Australia and New Zealand were also combatants in the Vietnam War.  I knew about the South Koreans and Thailand's military involvement but not them.
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 06 Jul 2015, 00:18
Yup

NZ mostly, I think, sent a couple of Batteries and a few ground troops.


Got the same reception here when they got back that the vets got in both the U.S. and Aussie
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Akima on 08 Jul 2015, 02:32
I had no idea Australia and New Zealand were also combatants in the Vietnam War.
Oh yes, though you'd never think so from popular media depictions of the Vietnam War. It was very divisive in Australia, drove a stake through the heart of conscription here, and is commemorated in song:
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Jul 2015, 15:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaN1Z6KKqQ
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: LeeC on 05 Aug 2015, 09:25
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: doombilly on 20 Dec 2015, 13:25
If you have not, check out Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Podcast. http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/ (http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/)
Title: Re: The military history thread
Post by: explicit on 18 Jan 2016, 22:11
I'm not entirely sure where to put this as it's an article about PTSD in the military, but it's a good (but depressing) read.

http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2044-my-husband-war-vet-with-ptsd-5-things-ive-learned.html