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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Oilman on 26 Jan 2015, 18:27

Title: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 26 Jan 2015, 18:27
Since someone asked what I actually liked about QC, and then locked tbe thread, I'll kick it off as a separate thread.

It's mildky amusing and comes out daily at a time of day when I am not usually doing very much, apart from gathering various correspondence, reading the news etc. The cast are a fairly predictable Webcomic crew of losers stuck in the usual rut of service-industry non-jobs, there is the usual over-representation of homosexuality (seriously, who really knows that many gay oeople?) sexualised view of life and living beyond their financial means with no obvious problems.

The last one is a staple of comics, from Dagwood Bumstead to Homer Simpson, of course.

The AI/AnthroPC angle is interesting. Momo is a genuinely original character, an inversion of the "cute robot girl" trope - she IS a "cute robot girl" but doesn't play the role, she IS an "anime character" but tries not to be. May was a good one-shot as a holo but now she's just tedious, with a side-order of political correctness. She COULD have been interesting, as an exploration of the whole "Robot Jail" scenario but I don't know where that went to. She COULD have been an exploration of the whole issue of robots eroding low-paid employment, but another opportunity lost. Pintsize is a one-joke character that has outlasted his time.

Dale and Marigold are interesting. They are outside the whole "hipster" thing and I think I might quite like Dale IRL. Marigold's whole shut-in scenario is familiar to any parent, although the whole "anime porn" thing is overdone, another Webcomic generality it seems.

The USreadership probsbly haven't seen it, or don't understand it if they have, but one if the huge successes of British tv in recent years has been "Gavin and Stacey", a rom-com of sorts about a rather sweet, and quite unremarkable young couple surrounded by a cast of grotesques and eccentrics. It works much better than it sounds, because you genuinely do care about the eponymous central characters and the secondary characters are genuinely funny.... but it knew when it had done the joke, and stopped.

You can see this in GWS, where the couples - Clarice and Joshua, Maureen and Jameson, to some extent Chrus and Melody - are moving steadily away from the central gag of "anti-social selfish loser and her ditzy friend"

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Carl-E on 26 Jan 2015, 20:15
usual over-representation of homosexuality (seriously, who really knows that many gay oeople?)

[raises hand]

Seriously, overrepresentation?  We have what, Henry and his new husband (should we count couples as separate people?), Tai, Dora who's bi so counts as half (?), and... well, that's about it.  Thats 3 1/2 people in a cast of what, 30 or so? 

I know more gay people than that in my church, and we have a pretty small congregation!  My daughter went to a school of 1500, her graduating class was about 450, and of the people she knew in that class (not a large group, really - she's a bit shy) there were at least a half dozen that she knew were gay. 

If I had every gay person I know in town over for a party, it would be a respectable sized bash.  Probably could fit them all in the house, but it's a pretty big house.  And it's not a big town - only about 50K in the entire area. 

I'm thinking that either a) you don't get out much, or b) you know more people that are gay than you think you do, because they're not out to you.  That may be an issue of your attitudes about gay people, I don't know.  I understand "gaydar" is pretty sensitive, it not only allows a gay person to tell when another one is around, but also when to clam up to protect themselves.   :roll:


The rest of your post is an interesting analysis, even though there are parts of it I disagree with, but that's all a matter of opinion. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 26 Jan 2015, 20:33
It also depends on which circles one hangs out in.  Certain subcultures and social groups have a *lot* more LGBT people than the population at large.  This comic centres around Marten's social circle, which just happens to not follow the normal percentages.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 26 Jan 2015, 20:34
usual over-representation of homosexuality (seriously, who really knows that many gay oeople?)
Seriously, overrepresentation?
This is a classic conservative/progressive brainspace difference. Or did you not understand what's going on here by his choice of username and language, Carl-E?

Let's address this in a different way. Oilman: It's over representation for people who project a countenance (with language, demeanor, and mannerisms all contributing) which suggests it may not be safe to be truthful about which way one's attractions lie. On the other hand, for those who exude a sense of safety, inclusion, and nonjudgment, and particularly in a college town as well, this isn't a surprising mix of people and qualities at all, but reflective of lived reality. Homosexuality really can be that abundant in given social spheres.

Which is not to imply that you yourself are judgmental of them, Oilman. I wouldn't assume such a thing. But others might. When we speak, act, gesture, we let off little liberal or conservative tells, and to us it's always the most natural thing in the world because rather than it being a deliberate attack on those who don't think as one does, it is a representation of the way with which we view the world. And while some sets of views are correlated, few are coupled irrevocably. It doesn't do to assume some of one's views by a vocal (textual?) tell regarding other views. But it does mean that your own perception of the world, some of which is what is picked for you to be allowed to know by those who may feel threatened, is not necessarily the truth!

By the way, these tells I'm talking about? They're probably what prompted people to question why you even enjoy QC in the first place. This is because the nature of what a surrounding group considers political is tied (proportionally) to how far from the group consensus a given thought, post, etc... is. Just as you view some comic strips as being a politicized soapbox, there are users here who will hear these tells and think you're on a soapbox of your own.

The takeaway lesson is that everything is political, and there is no escape from it. Even the act of continuing to draw breath is political. The best thing to do is to recognize when we're being irked by someone else's political tells and find a way to acknowledge that they're not necessarily meaning to act in an affront to you.

And if my post itself feels like an affront to anyone at all by addressing the elephant/donkey in the room, then I have no real help but to shrug.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 26 Jan 2015, 20:36
If he turns out to be a Troll, the Ban Hammer will be wielded.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 26 Jan 2015, 20:55
It's a classic liberal-left response that I actually raised several points, and all the replies jump on the "gay" aspect.

I'd always understood that people with varying degrees of homosexual leanings represented around 12% of the population, which (as has been pointed out) is statistically about right in QC. However the nature of that representation is another matter.

The British writer and media personality Stephen Fry is about as gay as it gets, if he were any more camp, he'd glow in the dark. However it's noteworthy that his portrayal of homosexuality in school and college life (The Liar, in particular) is extremely dark and negative. Evelyn Waugh portrays several gay characters (notably Sir Ralph Brompton) who were clearly drawn from life, and their over-arching characteristic us their untrustworthiness.

Marten is shown as delighted that he now has "three dads" with no suggestion that abandoning his mother us in any way blameworthy. Of course, this is hand-waved in that SHE is a sex-worker of ample income and Marten has left home, but it's a very soecifuc view, don't you think?



Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 26 Jan 2015, 21:04
*plonk*
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 26 Jan 2015, 21:15
As to my own response, as I was aiming to quell certain arguments that have been overplayed in all the internet comment cesspools that you may be familiar with, I decided to settle on the part that others had already picked out as what they were going to object to in order to extract from that a general lesson: If you can tell from someone's speech that their position comes from their personal politics, take a deep breath, try to imagine their life story, and maybe not reflexively see each other as enemies. Your other tells weren't relegated to 'the gay thing' exclusively, though. "Losers", for example, becomes a coded word when taken out of schoolyard posturing and into a description of people just beginning to figure out where they're going in life. (READ: Libspeak: classism (Yes, I'm being sardonic.)) As does the word "grotesques" when used to describe people of any stripe. "Sexualized" can come from either side of the isle, of course, depending on whether it's a feminist or conservative Christian uttering the phrase (Or from both sides at once, if a conservative Christian feminist decides to enter the fray)

My real argument is about none of these things, though. You're welcome to your views, and I'm not going to zealously harp on any of these points because trying to convince someone against something they hold as fundamentally true is a waste of time.

What I really want is an awareness of language, here, and the ways in which we accidentally pick fights.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Jan 2015, 21:21
Quote from: Oilman
Marten is shown as delighted that he now has "three dads" with no suggestion that abandoning his mother us in any way blameworthy.

Er, what?! Marten's complicated feelings toward his father have come up more than once, and where is there evidence that Henry abandoned Veronica?

(mod)Nothing wrong with political discussions in their place. If this continues drifting into politics I'll move it to Discuss.(/mod)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: mustang6172 on 26 Jan 2015, 21:21
Only while reading this did it dawn on me that Robot Jail is pretty much The Bizzarro Matrix.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 26 Jan 2015, 21:22
Well if we're hung up on the homosexuality part I'm going to try to respond as succinctly as possible.

QC is inclusive of many sexualities and ways of thinking/being. That's what makes it interesting. Saying there's an overrepresentation of these types of people (just going over the broad array of sexuality in general) is preposterous. When you only follow a dozen or so people statistics are pretty much useless (not enough people to make an accurate representation of the total population). You're basically saying that because there's more than one gay person in this comic it's unrealistic and/or biased. (That wasn't succinct at all dammit...)

That may not be what you're trying to say, but that's how I saw it.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Jan 2015, 21:28
That sample size problem is the reason not to sweat it because Jeph hasn't introduced a Jewish/First Nations/Tibetan/Russian/!Kung/Zoroastrian/Elbonian/whatever character. It's a large enough cast that they crowd each other for screen time but not large enough to draw any conclusions from its composition.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 26 Jan 2015, 21:40
"Grotesques" are common in all forms of literature - characters exaggerated beyond life for effect. Nessa from G&S is a grotesque, in these sense that most of the characters would pass unremarked IRL - especially the eponymous couple - but Nessa, no. But, she is comic, and interacts with the others; the plot arc about her unwanted and unintended pregnancy is quite touching. Smithy is a selfish idiot who has to face up to his perceived responsibilities.

Bill Sykes is a grotesque, as is Fagin, although Fagin was partly drawn from life. Mr Micawber is one, but somehow likeable and he turns into a "happy ever after" at the end.

I'd say Marten's parents were grotesques; Pintsize, definitely. HANNERS' mother qualifies. Tai, arguably. Marten, Dora and most of the female secondary characters are pretty sane, as are Angus and Steve.

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 26 Jan 2015, 21:47
That sample size problem is the reason not to sweat it because Jeph hasn't introduced a Jewish/First Nations/Tibetan/Russian/!Kung/Zoroastrian/Elbonian/whatever character. It's a large enough cast that they crowd each other for screen time but not large enough to draw any conclusions from its composition.

Wasn't Natasha Russian? She was hardly a sympathetic character. What about the Russian woman in Steve's "secret agent" story arc?

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: tragic_pizza on 26 Jan 2015, 22:11
It's a classic liberal-left response...

Oh for fuck's sake.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 26 Jan 2015, 22:45
It's a classic liberal-left response...

Oh for fuck's sake.

Yupp, I mean, it was the only controversial part of his original post unless someone really wanted to defend anime porn.

Lesson, don't say ignorant things and expect people not to say something about it.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Jan 2015, 22:50
Global Moderator Comment Back on the rails, please.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Akima on 27 Jan 2015, 06:16
there is the usual over-representation of homosexuality (seriously, who really knows that many gay oeople?)
It's a classic liberal-left response that I actually raised several points, and all the replies jump on the "gay" aspect.

Maybe that is because your other points were quite reasonable and did not reveal such an unpleasant streak of outright prejudice. You described as "over-representation" the presence of, as Carl-E points out, a few gay people out of a large cast, two of whom (Marten's Dad and his husband) have hardly featured in the strip. From this I conclude that, to you, "over-representation" means "having any gay people in the comic at all". Then you move on to this:
Quote
I'd always understood that people with varying degrees of homosexual leanings represented around 12% of the population, which (as has been pointed out) is statistically about right in QC. However the nature of that representation is another matter.

The British writer and media personality Stephen Fry is about as gay as it gets, if he were any more camp, he'd glow in the dark. However it's noteworthy that his portrayal of homosexuality in school and college life (The Liar, in particular) is extremely dark and negative. Evelyn Waugh portrays several gay characters (notably Sir Ralph Brompton) who were clearly drawn from life, and their over-arching characteristic us their untrustworthiness.

So your "over-representation" complaint is not a matter of numbers (despite your explicitly asking "seriously, who really knows that many gay people?")? Instead your objection apparently is simply that Jeph does not depict homosexuals in a sufficiently negative way? I don't know why you imagine we should regard Evelyn Waugh as having any more accuracy in his views on homosexuality than in his extremely unpleasant racist and anti-semitic opinions. Your chosen "authority" is certainly not a man with whom I would wish to associate myself, or invoke in support of my opinions, but the choice is yours, of course.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: McH on 27 Jan 2015, 06:39
(seriously, who really knows that many gay oeople?)

Err.. I know more IRL than in the QC cast, I think. My best friend is gay, I know his ex, I have a bisexual friend, a lesbian friend who has a partner and her own gay best friend, all of whom I know. I'm also friendly acquainted with a man who has only recently changed back from having identified and lived as a woman for most of his adult life. Oh, and the woman I most recently dated is pansexual, just to add even more variety. It's really not that uncommon if you can be bothered to be aware.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Scarblac on 27 Jan 2015, 07:10
It's a classic liberal-left response that I actually raised several points, and all the replies jump on the "gay" aspect.

I'd always understood that people with varying degrees of homosexual leanings represented around 12% of the population, whic However it's noteworthy that his portrayal of homosexuality in school and college life (The Liar, in particular) is extremely dark and negative.
Note that an important point of The Liar is that it's full of hilarious bizarre anecdotes that never happened.

But also, love and sex during high school is terrible for almost everybody, and I think he was describing that. The main character happened to be gay, but the various problems (e.g. portraying yourself as a very sexual being, but not daring to express yourself to a person you adore) are hardly unique to gays.

Thirdly, Fry was in high school in the early 70s. Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until 1967. It wouldnt'be be surprising if his experience was less happy than that of straight people.

Using The Liar as an argument for the idea that having gays in the comic is only OK as long as they're untrustworthy, unhappy types is ridiculous.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 27 Jan 2015, 07:30
My social group is remarkably gay, I've commented on it before in my real life, but it makes total sense. Friends are generally self-selected, and people tend to be friends with people with similar belief systems, and since social liberals don't have an issue with gay people, gay people are more likely to be social liberals, and therefore will be represented higher in friend groups with that belief system. My entire D&D group is all non-hetero sexuality of some sort (my wife and I are both Bi, all the other players are gay men), we considered flying a rainbow flag on our caravan in game.

Of the people who came to my new year's eve party we have:

3 gay men
2 bisexual men
3 straight men
4 bisexual women

(and not even all of my D&D group made it)

Yeah, much much higher than in QC.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 27 Jan 2015, 07:39
My thought is pretty much along Emperor Norton's line. Like tends to attract to like. You tend to hang around people with similar experiences and attitudes towards you. A very high percentage of my friendship circles are in the LGBT community. The same way as a lot of my friends are geeks and nerds like me. In QC, it's really more a circle of college slackers, indie rockers and such. If anything, it's a surprise that the mix up of the group is as varied as it is.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Carl-E on 27 Jan 2015, 08:03
Hmm.  Akima pretty much addressed my issue - I only responded to the statement about gays because it was the only part of the OP that I really disagreed with (as I said at the time). 

Interestingly, others are reporting personal experiences because of the way it was expressed, but that's not really the point.  As you yourself admit, and others have pointed out, they're probably a bit underrepresented in the comic. 

The same's probably true of alcoholics... sorry, sidetracked for a moment. 

As for grotesques, I think I have to disagree with a few of your assumptions.  They use stereotypes, and the ones you mention from Dickens are good examples, though several develop more later (like Jeph, Dickens was writing serially).  But Tai?  Maybe in the beginning, but she was developed a lot into a whole personality.  Marten's dad?  Well, no, he wasn't stereotyped much - we really don't know much about him except that he was a good dad, and they split amicably.  So a case of underdevelopment there, I guess, but not much of a reliance on stereotype - more of a cipher than a grotesque.  Maurice is more of a stereotype, but has had very little "screen time", so I guess he could qualify.  Veronica also uses stereotyping to some extent, but again we've seen the beginnings of her being fleshed out as a character. 

Hanner's mom, and Pintsize?  No argument there!  Although Pintsize does have hidden depths, as has been mentioned on other threads in here. 

I guess the upshot is that you can expect thoughtful responses to comments that may or may not be off the cuff.  We're rarely knee-jerk around here, although it gets that way in the WCDT when there's a big dramatic arc tht brings in new people. 



Oh, and welcome to the (rest of the) forums! 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 27 Jan 2015, 08:23
Hell, on the strength of self-selection: Only one person in my D&D group isn't polyamorous, and that is WAY rarer than LGBT.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Boomslang on 27 Jan 2015, 08:29
Since my social circle actually doesn't include that many gay people (one of the people I work with is, and a friend of mine is bi), I'll actually take issue with a completely separate part of your post. You describe the cast as having, in your words, "service-industry non-jobs". That... doesn't even make sense. If someone is paying you to do it, it's a job. Most of their jobs admittedly aren't careers, although Dora is an entrepreneur and works her ass off so you can't lump her in with her employees even if you limit it to dead-end work, and certainly if starting your own business is your idea of a 'loser' I really don't understand what you expect.

Beyond that, I'm questioning your awareness of economic realities if you think most of the cast are living beyond their means. Dora is the only one shown who can pay rent on an apartment without having someone else help her, but she owns a freaking business. Hannelore is heir to ridiculous wealth and wouldn't even have a job if she didn't want one. The rest of the cast can get by and even make the occasional splurge, but that's normal in people who have full time jobs, are healthy, and don't spend a huge portion of their income on housing, regardless of whether they're making only a bit above minimum wage.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aimless on 27 Jan 2015, 09:48
I have to admit "over-representation of homosexuality" is one of the most absurd and tragicomic things I've read on these forums. Welcome to the bitter shocking reality of having your opinions examined, Oilman (also to 2015). If you know more than 25 people then perhaps you too know almost "that many gay people", but I dunno.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: DSL on 27 Jan 2015, 10:01
You know, I always had a similar complaint about "Star Trek." I mean, who knows that many spacepersons?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aimless on 27 Jan 2015, 10:04
You know, I always had a similar complaint about "Star Trek." I mean, who knows that many spacepersons?

Now there's a bunch of nonjobbers... :o
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Near Lurker on 27 Jan 2015, 10:15
It just baffles me, not that someone would make this comment, but that someone would make it about QC, of all comics.  I mean, basically everyone's straight - of the major characters, ostensibly everyone but Dora and Tai, and of the more peripheral characters, of whom there are many, all but Amanda, Henry and Maurice, Scott (who'll probably never be seen again), and a few frankly unimportant kids Tai knows.  And this in a city sort of famous IRL for lesbians.  I see this comment a lot, with about the same reaction, but usually it's on a comic that isn't so damn full of breeders.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 27 Jan 2015, 10:16
You know, I always had a similar complaint about "Star Trek." I mean, who knows that many spacepersons?

Vulcans are way overrepresented in Star Trek. And don't even get me started on Klingons.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 27 Jan 2015, 10:17
I wish I knew more about Star Trek so I could come up with funny things to say...
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Omega Entity on 27 Jan 2015, 10:26
Pssh, you want to talk overrepresented in Star Trek? Frickin' Andorians! Everywhere you look, all you see is blue skin  :psyduck:

(I'm actually amazed that I even remembered what they were called.)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: AprilArcus on 27 Jan 2015, 11:07
Marten is shown as delighted that he now has "three dads" with no suggestion that abandoning his mother us in any way blameworthy.

Marten has had fourteen years to get over his parents divorce, and it has been shown that he was not precisely thrilled (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=433) about it at the time (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=437).
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: A Duck on 27 Jan 2015, 11:26
Well, this is one surreal thread... Let's do this, point by point:

The cast are a fairly predictable Webcomic crew of losers stuck in the usual rut of service-industry non-jobs,
That...Actually isn't true. Dora has her own business, Tai is essentially the boss at the library. I don't think the library quite qualifies as "service-industry", either. In fact, the only main cast actually stuck would be Faye, but that is a somewhat importan part of her character. Steve is a goddamn secret agent!

there is the usual over-representation of homosexuality (seriously, who really knows that many gay oeople?)
I do know a lot of gay people, proportionally way more than in the comic, as do many other that commented. Gay people exist and are everywhere, they seem "new" for some people because society is screwed up and many of those would never "come out" mere years ago. Many still never do.

sexualised view of life
People have sex. Get over it.

and living beyond their financial means with no obvious problems.
I don't see anyone in the comic living beyond their means. We can't have half of the comic being money problems, but it's been made clear that buying a guitar broke Marten's finances for some time. Again, the only one doing stuff beyond simply going to a bar is Hannelore, and not only her parents have all the money in the world, but she could make a lot of money herself, as far as we know.

May was a good one-shot as a holo but now she's just tedious, with a side-order of political correctness. She COULD have been interesting, as an exploration of the whole "Robot Jail" scenario but I don't know where that went to. She COULD have been an exploration of the whole issue of robots eroding low-paid employment, but another opportunity lost.
May just barely appeared since getting out of prison, and for what she did the issue WAS explored (see her difficulty on finding employment).

Pintsize is a one-joke character that has outlasted his time.
Pintsize himself said that long ago, and has developed since. We know he has "hidden depths" and I assume the current storyline will serve to further his character development

Dale and Marigold are interesting. They are outside the whole "hipster" thing and I think I might quite like Dale IRL. Marigold's whole shut-in scenario is familiar to any parent, although the whole "anime porn" thing is overdone, another Webcomic generality it seems.

The USreadership probsbly haven't seen it, or don't understand it if they have, but one if the huge successes of British tv in recent years has been "Gavin and Stacey", a rom-com of sorts about a rather sweet, and quite unremarkable young couple surrounded by a cast of grotesques and eccentrics. It works much better than it sounds, because you genuinely do care about the eponymous central characters and the secondary characters are genuinely funny.... but it knew when it had done the joke, and stopped.

You can see this in GWS, where the couples - Clarice and Joshua, Maureen and Jameson, to some extent Chrus and Melody - are moving steadily away from the central gag of "anti-social selfish loser and her ditzy friend"
Dale and Marigold went through a lot of development before they became a couple, but since that happened recently, they didn't have much time to develop afterwards. Hard to say we're "done" with them.

Marten is shown as delighted that he now has "three dads" with no suggestion that abandoning his mother us in any way blameworthy. Of course, this is hand-waved in that SHE is a sex-worker of ample income and Marten has left home, but it's a very soecifuc view, don't you think?
I don't see how accepting your father's remarriage has any relation whatsoever with abandoning your mother.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 27 Jan 2015, 12:33
Over-representation of homosexuality? In what universe? If anything, I think the number skews a bit low. I know far more LGB people than are represented in the QC-verse (haven't met as many trans* people), and I'd be willing to wager that you do too (whether they're comfortably out around you is something else again).

And a good number of whom I know because of other LGB people I know. The same would be true if you subbed, say, Portuguese for LGBT, and for the same reason: people tend to congregate with, and befriend, either people who are like them, or people who make the effort to understand them and treat them with friendship and decency.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: MooskiNet on 27 Jan 2015, 13:40
Edited:  My bad.  Off the cuff remark I should have thought about more.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 27 Jan 2015, 13:50
Global Moderator Comment We're in two minds on that at the moment ourselves. Rest assured, your Mods are keeping an eye on the situation.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 27 Jan 2015, 13:50
(mod)Cough. That's our problem to deal with, and not by posting personal remarks. Which are offtopic.(/mod)

Don't the characters have the Improbable Food Budget going on? I will not post the link.

It's only right to point out that central characters are underachievers, and it's been pointed out in the strip about Faye and Marten. Marigold also has her own business in a skilled white collar field, but she gets less screen time than the Pugnacious Peach.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Carl-E on 27 Jan 2015, 17:46
Marten is shown as delighted that he now has "three dads"

Uummm... two dads, I think. 

Also, Marigold works for her dad.  She may be doing a lot - doesn't he sell shoes, and she's handling the website?  That may be a Zappos sort of thing, and so it's really a full time job.  Then again, maybe not, but it pays well enough for a share in an apartment, and a new chassis for Momo (so long as she eats ramen for a while...)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 27 Jan 2015, 18:02
He has two dads now. If Jim and Veronica wind up getting married, then he'll have three dads. "That's so many dads!" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2689)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Penquin47 on 27 Jan 2015, 18:13
As far as overrepresentation goes: I live in a small town in West Texas.  My high school has about 200 kids.  In any given year, we'll have somewhere between 0-6 students who are out of the closet.  I've heard that several of my former students came out later.  None of the teachers are, but in my case: I identify as bisexual, but I keep that to myself because a) I live in a small town in West Texas and if I told one person tomorrow, the whole town would know by next Tuesday, and I would probably be looking for a job this summer; and b) I don't have a girlfriend (or a boyfriend but that wouldn't require coming out).  I highly doubt I'm the only person who thinks that way, especially given that I've had 20+ years to come to terms with my sexuality, which is longer than my students have been ALIVE.  If you live in a highly conservative area, chances are you would find very similar thinking.  In a place like Marten's town, it's a lot safer to be out, so in addition to the townies/college students, you have people fleeing conservative areas for open-minded areas.  Compared to the general population, a liberal college town is just going to have more non-straight people than the population on average.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 27 Jan 2015, 18:33
Don't forget the LUGs.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 27 Jan 2015, 22:19
I don't know that Marigold qualifies as "skilled white-collar" but then again, we don't really know much about her background, how much work she really does for her father or what it brings in. However she could apparently pass the credit checks to sign for Momo's new chassis, and pay her rent so she must have a relatively good income.

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 27 Jan 2015, 22:33
She builds and maintains websites, that's pretty white collar.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 27 Jan 2015, 22:39
White collar yes. Skilled? ehhhhh. A lot of people get by on those jobs with only basic knowledge and commonly available software tools. They don't make great websites, but serviceable, simple ones for people who have even less experience and knowledge. However Marigold has some tech knowledge. Enough to be a go-to person for AthroPC repair. How much she actually does for her father is unknown, but she seems to have a lot of free time. More than anyone else in the comic at least, aside from Sven Pintsize and Winslow.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 27 Jan 2015, 22:55
That's pretty much what I had thought. I know someone who did that sort of work as a stop-gap, getting work from a website of some sort. It wasn't great money but it kept the wolf from the door until he hit something better

 We've never seen anyone else go to her for AnthroPC repair, and knowing more about the subject than most of the cast isn't saying a lot.

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Omega Entity on 27 Jan 2015, 23:18
That's pretty much what I had thought. I know someone who did that sort of work as a stop-gap, getting work from a website of some sort. It wasn't great money but it kept the wolf from the door until he hit something better

 We've never seen anyone else go to her for AnthroPC repair, and knowing more about the subject than most of the cast isn't saying a lot.


White collar yes. Skilled? ehhhhh. A lot of people get by on those jobs with only basic knowledge and commonly available software tools. They don't make great websites, but serviceable, simple ones for people who have even less experience and knowledge. However Marigold has some tech knowledge. Enough to be a go-to person for AthroPC repair. How much she actually does for her father is unknown, but she seems to have a lot of free time. More than anyone else in the comic at least, aside from Sven Pintsize and Winslow.

Depends on how the site is made. If it's just a WordPress or Wix site with easily ported templates and the like, then yeah, pretty easy.

But if it's someone who knows how to build one from scratch, programming and tailoring the site specifically for what a client needs, then it really is a highly-skilled, white-collar job. Businesses that rely on a well-built site to sell their products pay big, big bucks to have a site custom-made to their needs.

A friend of mine did a two year course on how to do it, and now can make between $500 and $2000 per site he builds. Since those kinds of jobs are freelance and not a steady paycheck, he also works for a site-building company for the steady income. So yes, there is such a thing as a highly-skilled, highly-paid web designer.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: BenRG on 27 Jan 2015, 23:36
We've never seen anyone else go to her for AnthroPC repair, and knowing more about the subject than most of the cast isn't saying a lot.

The problems that Marigold have fixed were quite complex, especially Momo's bad firmware update. That isn't the sort of thing that your average end user could handle.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 27 Jan 2015, 23:42
Well, yes. That's the distinction between a professional engineer, which is DEFINITELY a white-collar skilled role, and an engineering technician, which isn't - but who may well overlap at least part of the functions of the professional engineer.

The example I was thinking of was actually a surveying technician who pretty much sucked the web-design stuff out of his thumb as a stop-gap, until he got another job in his REAL speciality. I know someone else who has left the oilpatch to establish himself in web design, because he is fed up with the travelling; HE is taking a year to do a Masters, and he is building on his past experience of client presentations to top-dollar clients
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Jan 2015, 23:53
This is a story, not a tediously accurate account of real life.  It depicts what's needed to tell the story, and sufficient background to provide an environment for it.  Quibbling beyond that is just missing the point.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: BenRG on 28 Jan 2015, 00:01
This is a story, not a tediously accurate account of real life.  It depicts what's needed to tell the story, and sufficient background to provide an environment for it.  Quibbling beyond that is just missing the point.

Precisely. Oilman, I really get the impression that you are desperately casting around for reasons to denigrate the characters and hate the strip. Why bother? Why did you even come to the forums when you should have guessed that your opinions would bring you into conflict with other users?

I've got to conclude that you're one of those people who likes annoying people and starting arguments. That's not a good or healthy place to be, IMO.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Carl-E on 28 Jan 2015, 00:04
No, I think you're misreading him.  I think he actually likes the strip, but (like me) it's pretty far from his personal experience, so he's questioning it. 

With luck, he's finding out just how limited personal experience can be! 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 00:15
.....up to a point, Lord Copper.

QC is, basically, an American comic with an American background. Some aspects of it are familiar or self-evident to US readers, but less so or not at all to non-US readers.

If Dora simply dismissed Faye verbally without notice in most European countries, she would be liable to legal action, because the concept of "employment at will" is specifically American. CoD's employee benefits would be a non-issue in Europe, because the concept is completely different.

It's like another issue I saw somewhere recently, about a character visiting another in their apartment and having a conversation about "parking in the next street, so the Superintendent won't charge you for me". That is pretty much meaningless to a British or European reader, because the tenancy lease practices differ - you might need to notify your landlord for insurance reasons if someone moves in, but you can have all the house guests you like and it's no-one's business but yours







Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 01:01
No, I think you're misreading him.  I think he actually likes the strip, but (like me) it's pretty far from his personal experience, so he's questioning it. 

With luck, he's finding out just how limited personal experience can be!

suffice it say that yes, life is infinitely nuanced.

QC is a mildly amusing daily strip with "no f*cking elves" (google The Inklings if you don't recognise the reference) and a bit more substance than a simple gag-a-day format.

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 28 Jan 2015, 01:29
you might need to notify your landlord for insurance reasons if someone moves in, but you can have all the house guests you like and it's no-one's business but yours

Neither of those points is strictly accurate, though it may depend on the details of the contract (says a landlord).  Many tenants fail to appreciate that the words in the contract they signed actually have meaning and force.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 01:55
Well, that's true. I've rented accommodation over the years. You may need the landlord's approval; the landlord can  prohibit certain individuals from so much as entering the property. The landlord has to comply with legal restrictions on overcrowding and insurance.

Perhaps it's more true to say that the contractual restrictions are much more restrictive, and more closely enforced in the US thsn in UK.



Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 28 Jan 2015, 02:23
Yes, it definitely comes across so in many circumstances.

But it may be more that the law allows the landlord more freedom to be unsympathetic, just as we've been seeing in the discussion of employment law in the WCDT.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 02:31
I'm told that US restrictions on persons in accomodation are partly derived from legislation designed to suppress electoral fraud - "vote early and vote often" etc. I don't know if this is so, but I could believe it.



Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 28 Jan 2015, 02:36
I know the terms of my lease were very strict and we could be kicked out for any violation, which of course included adding an extra person to the house. Of course, where I lived you were only allowed to have 5 people on a lease for renting (unless you were family). A noise violation was grounds for immediate removal... this was a strict town in general...
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 03:11
I've long since come to the conclusion that the U.S. is good fun in small doses but I've never felt the urge to live there.

Americans live in a communal style, it seems, despite their almost infinite space. Shared dormitory accomodation is pretty much extinct in UK higher education; you get communal apartments with en-suite but not the sort of thing you see in DoA. I worked on an American pipelay barge a year or two ago which had 2-man and 4-man cabins, which is VERY old school by European standards; the British and Dutch blokes moaned like crazy and the Yanks couldn't understand it. But, we went to the pub every night in port, which you DO NOT do on a British vessel....

Try to get the police out to a noisy, disorderly party over here, and see how you get on.

I had a visit from family based in the U.S, a couple of years ago. They were astounded at the extent and scale of under-age drinking, by which I mean under-18s. They seemed to think the police would come and kick the doors in, because we had beer and wine on the table at meals and allowed a 14-year-old cousin to have some.



Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Scarblac on 28 Jan 2015, 05:13
I distinctly remember being at a party in an apartment in Wolverhampton (UK) once, where ~30 of us had to quickly leave through a back window because the landlord was at the door and the girl who lived there wasn't supposed to have greater than X number of people present. But I don't know the value of X. We did all sleep over the night before.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrillho on 28 Jan 2015, 05:50
I had a visit from family based in the U.S, a couple of years ago. They were astounded at the extent and scale of under-age drinking, by which I mean under-18s. They seemed to think the police would come and kick the doors in, because we had beer and wine on the table at meals and allowed a 14-year-old cousin to have some.

This is something that I've found quite hilariously influencing the current generation of young people (including mine) simply due to pop culture, or at least that's my best guess.

People are so used to seeing television shows in which people get busted by the police for underage drinking that they think underage drinking is illegal in the UK. But it more or less doesn't exist as a crime in the UK, it's about purchase, ditto with smoking to my knowledge. I think there's something about if you're a toddler or whatever but aside from that it's pretty much down to parental responsibility.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 06:22
Correct, the crime is purchasing alcohol or tobacco under-age (18 in UK) or on behalf of a minor. There are no actual laws about consumption at all, apart from on licenced premises or in certain towns which have local by-laws restricting consumption in public places. So it is technically a criminal offence, but IRL no-one cares about it, least of all Mr Plod for the most part - unless they want to put the frighteners on a landlord or shop by threatening the renewal of their licence, or break up a particularly disorderly group in a public place.

I let my kids have alcohol under supervision as soon as they wanted it. Now one son is pretty much dry, but smokes; one plays rugby and one went to medical school and drinks things even I won't touch. Draw any conclusion you like from that.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: bhtooefr on 28 Jan 2015, 08:36
It's worth noting that the shared accommodations that you've seen in the US aren't actually typical of most situations (although it's possible that university dorm accommodations are part of why Americans are allergic to living in close quarters), and a lot of Americans have an excess of space that isn't shared with anyone except their spouse and children. And, the US is one of the least urbanized developed nations in the world, IIRC.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 10:43
I have family in Fort Worth who have a very large house by UK standards, but the thing whuch always strikes me about US housing is the general open-ness and lack of privacy of the surrounds.

I visited family in Fort Worth a couple of years ago and that was my introduction to Pop Warner football. Again, it all seemed very regimented, a lot of time committed and if you didn't, the child was simply dropped. Junior club sports here are much more relaxed, and the longer seasons mean most children play often enough.

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 28 Jan 2015, 12:04
Football in Texas is not a sport, it's a religion. Even at the Pop Warner and high school levels.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 12:23
Trending back towards comics, if there's an American version of the old style British "sports comic" - Alf Tupper, or Roy of the Rovers - I don't know about it
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 28 Jan 2015, 12:25
Yeah, that's because Texas. New England gives barely any shits about sports in general. Of course, there is a commitment and we are competitive, but no one gets kicked off a team unless they're 1.) a huge bastard or 2.) there's too many people on the team so someone has to get cut.

And the openness part depends on where you go. Texas is much different from Florida, which is much different from New England, which is much different from California. I also lived in Row Houses for a few years, so there's not exactly much openness in that.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: DSL on 28 Jan 2015, 13:22
Trending back towards comics, if there's an American version of the old style British "sports comic" - Alf Tupper, or Roy of the Rovers - I don't know about it

Closest I can think of that's still clinging to life is "Gil Thorp," ostensibly about the all-sports coach of the Milford Mudlarks, but it spends more time on teen drama and Social Issues (TM) than it does on sports. There were a couple in the 1940s I remember seeing on old microfilms but I can't remember the names.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: jwhouk on 28 Jan 2015, 14:22
There is, of course, Tank McNamara. Bill Hinds (who is now the sole artist/cartoonist, since his cohort Jeff Millar passed away from cancer) takes topical sports issues from the US and tries to play on the absurdity of it all.

Example: Latest edition, regarding the Manning brothers, sitting in a duck blind somewhere in their home state Louisiana:

(http://assets.amuniversal.com/84ff82e0832d0132bfef005056a9545d)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Akima on 28 Jan 2015, 14:31
I've long since come to the conclusion that the U.S. is good fun in small doses but I've never felt the urge to live there.
I feel much the same way. I have worked in the USA for periods up to a month, and enjoyed it, but always been glad to come home to Australia. Although I know that I'm highly critical of some aspects of American government policy and society, I have generally positive feelings about America, and as an Australian, I recognise the USA as my country's most important ally. As a "convert" to liberal democracy, there is also still a part of me that thinks of America as something of a "shining city on a hill" too, laughable as that might seem to Americans.

Experiencing America is oddly strange, I find. To an Australian, many aspects of America are instantly familiar as a result of the ubiquity of its cultural products in our media*, and I work in the computer industry where a large proportion of the products and standards that shape it originated in America. I speak English fluently, so there is no language barrier, despite my different dialect and accent. I could almost imagine myself at home, but then something will come along to remind me of how intensely foreign America is, in a manner that is almost jarring in contrast.

*To some extent this is true of British cultural products too, but I have never visited the UK, so I don't know if it would strike me the same way. I googled "Roy of the Rovers", and that certainly struck me as weird and foreign! :P

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Jan 2015, 15:19
Does QC seem like something from another planet to non-US readers, or are most of the themes universal?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: BenRG on 28 Jan 2015, 15:26
Does QC seem like something from another planet to non-US readers, or are most of the themes universal?

The themes are universal, but the setting is very, very US East Coast as are a lot of the setting and characterisation assumptions.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 28 Jan 2015, 15:31
Yes - What Ben said. There are a few things that wouldn't make sense to me if I hadn't moved to Massachusetts a few months before I started reading QC.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 28 Jan 2015, 15:33
Honestly, I find just travelling out of my bubble of the US can make the US seem weird. And I live here. (The Atlanta Metropolitan area is a nice bubble of sanity in the Deep South. Travelling outside of it is like going to another world.)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 28 Jan 2015, 15:43
I would argue that it's 'relative sanity'. We're still heavily influenced and affected by being smack dab in the middle of Georgia.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 28 Jan 2015, 15:48
Hey, I know the feeling - I grew up in Charlotte and have lived in Raleigh and Durham, three islands of sanity in the mess that is North Carolina.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Orkboy on 28 Jan 2015, 17:16
Experiencing America is oddly strange, I find. To an Australian, many aspects of America are instantly familiar as a result of the ubiquity of its cultural products in our media*, and I work in the computer industry where a large proportion of the products and standards that shape it originated in America. I speak English fluently, so there is no language barrier, despite my different dialect and accent. I could almost imagine myself at home, but then something will come along to remind me of how intensely foreign America is, in a manner that is almost jarring in contrast.

If it makes you feel any better, most Americans feel the same way about other parts of America.  Being stationed in Florida, I felt like it was just different enough to be unsettling, and it's not even that far from Texas to Florida.  I was only 700 miles from home. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 28 Jan 2015, 17:19
I always say Atlanta, just because internationally people know where that is, at least vaguely. I'm actually about an hour out in Athens. Just the college town vibe, and the number of transplants from other places changes it so much from the normal South, once you get outside and into rural areas its just frightening.

I always get offended by Southern stereotypes, because I'm like "its not like that at all" and then I have to correct myself and think "Oh, yeah, I live in Athens. Athens is bizarro-South".

But yeah, really, even to me, there are times where characters do things that don't make since to me. Like the number of characters with no cars. The fact that taxis and other public transit is actually a thing people use. Or the whole distance stuff (small state people are weird).
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: eschaton on 28 Jan 2015, 17:33
I spent a year studying at the University of Warwick back in 1999-2000, and the dormitory was set up almost exactly like a U.S. dorm, with only one bathroom for the ladies and gents respectively per floor.

Well, almost.  We did, for some odd reason, have a sink in our rooms.   I have to admit, I would piss in it rather than go down the hall to the bathroom.   :-D  I was only 20 and all. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: jwhouk on 28 Jan 2015, 18:12
The one thing that most people who are not from the USA do not get about the country is its sheer size. I think our Aussie friends are about the only ones who can comprehend the size - though not necessarily the landscape.

Everyone who's been reading the comic since The Breakup Arc knows that Dora no longer lives in Northampton, having moved to a place in Amherst (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1892). Pen and Hanners complain that "that's 20 minutes away!" In reality, that's about an 8 to 9 mile drive - but it's all "surface street" (no freeway/highways).

Now, compare my little situation. To go from my apartment to the nearest Starbucks is also about 25 minutes - but it's more than 8-9 miles, because most of it is freeway driving (about 20 miles).

Another comparison: a friend of mine lives in the foothills of the Superstition Mountains in the greater Phoenix area. She occasionally teaches glass-blowing classes at Mesa Community College, which is right off the US 60 Freeway. To get there, it's about a 33 minute drive to go the 28.5 miles - mostly freeway when she gets onto the 60.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 28 Jan 2015, 18:17
I always say Atlanta, just because internationally people know where that is, at least vaguely. I'm actually about an hour out in Athens. Just the college town vibe, and the number of transplants from other places changes it so much from the normal South, once you get outside and into rural areas its just frightening.

I always get offended by Southern stereotypes, because I'm like "its not like that at all" and then I have to correct myself and think "Oh, yeah, I live in Athens. Athens is bizarro-South".

But yeah, really, even to me, there are times where characters do things that don't make since to me. Like the number of characters with no cars. The fact that taxis and other public transit is actually a thing people use. Or the whole distance stuff (small state people are weird).

It's easier for people not from the state, yeah. I lived in Athens for 10 years. I miss the place. But I couldn't afford rent on my house when my hours were slashed, so I've kinda been moving around, rooming with people for a few years now. I still wish I could afford to move back to Athens on my own.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 28 Jan 2015, 18:18
I always say Atlanta, just because internationally people know where that is, at least vaguely. I'm actually about an hour out in Athens. Just the college town vibe, and the number of transplants from other places changes it so much from the normal South, once you get outside and into rural areas its just frightening.

I always get offended by Southern stereotypes, because I'm like "its not like that at all" and then I have to correct myself and think "Oh, yeah, I live in Athens. Athens is bizarro-South".

But yeah, really, even to me, there are times where characters do things that don't make since to me. Like the number of characters with no cars. The fact that taxis and other public transit is actually a thing people use. Or the whole distance stuff (small state people are weird).

The number of cars thing is weird if you've never lived in a place that's got good public transportation, or if you live in a place that's not pedestrian-friendly. I've never held a driver's license, but I'm also lucky to live in a place that has generally decent public transportation. If you lived in an area that doesn't even have sidewalks, much less mass transit, then yeah, not having a car is impractical and might be looked at a bit strange.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 28 Jan 2015, 18:25
It's easier for people not from the state, yeah. I lived in Athens for 10 years. I miss the place. But I couldn't afford rent on my house when my hours were slashed, so I've kinda been moving around, rooming with people for a few years now. I still wish I could afford to move back to Athens on my own.

I've lived here my entire life pretty much. (at least, I've never been more than 30 minutes away from Athens. I grew up technically in one of the county's next to it, but since there was nothing much there, I live in Athens :P). I'm lucky in that with being married, and both my wife and I working (and also with me having fallen backwards into an amazing job) I can afford a decent 3 bedroom house not far from the hospital (ARMC, which was where my wife has been working the last few years, though she just got a new job and is working out her notice at the hospital now yay).

Its just such a different place, culturally than the area around it. Also, I'm being all happy and rambly just because I never run across anyone who even knows anything about Athens, much less had lived there before :P.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Penquin47 on 28 Jan 2015, 18:31
Sense of scale does tend to get a little wonky.  Reading through this thread, I was thinking about how Austin (where I lived for two years) is a bubble of good-weird inside the redneck that is Texas, and Lubbock (where I live now) is like redneck concentrate - and they're only a few hundred miles apart.  I've gotten to where I think nothing of driving the hundred miles to Amarillo for a weekend, and the few hundred further to Dallas or Oklahoma just means "make sure to bring lots of paper or enough good books to deal with the car trip".

Then I remembered that for most of the country, a few hundred miles apart means "in a completely different state, often with a buffer state in between".

Then I remembered living in Europe, where a few hundred miles could mean "three countries over" (except, of course, that you'd express it as a few hundred kilometers apart).

There are times where QC seems like it's set in a completely different world to me.  The thing about Dora's 20-minute drive being end-of-the-world-and-all-her-friendships was easily the most jarring.  20 minute drive is a trip into town for dinner.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 28 Jan 2015, 18:47
There's an old British (I think) joke that goes "America is a place where a hundred miles is a short distance and a hundred years is a long time." However, New England in general and Massachusetts in particular is closer to the European than American view of distance - a hundred miles in New England IS a long distance. Eastern Massachusetts is densely populated enough that public transit become not only efficient, but essential; we simply don't have enough roads to hold all of our cars if everybody drove everywhere the way they do in much of the rest of the US.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 28 Jan 2015, 18:58
"A few hundred miles" in UK means "fall into the sea" in most cases.

I know some parts of the US and Australia, and I find them both recognisable in some ways, for obvious historical reasons. US Constitution was written by men who were essentially British, after all; the U.S. is 18th century England writ large, in some ways.

It's why the EU is such a toxic issue in Britush politics; I can't understand most of what goes on in France, and I speak French quite fluently. Most European legal and political systems are pretty much incompatible with ours, and so forth. I work in a genuinely international environment and I very rarely go to Europe, except to change flights at Schiphol, and I find it very difficult wirking with Europeans for a range of reasons; it's easier to be in somewhere where I am a foreigner, full stop.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Jan 2015, 20:02
The US is large enough that Marten couldn't afford to visit his mother. (Or at least that was a convenient excuse).

One way to get a feel for how big it really is is to ride a train. Amtrak through Montana, 79 mph with no restaurant stops, takes almost 12 hours.

QC-land is an anomaly in US terms, in that everybody's home, work, and hangouts are all inside walking distance.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: tragic_pizza on 28 Jan 2015, 20:04
I live in Birmingham, Alabama.

Pity me.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrillho on 29 Jan 2015, 01:26
It doesn't feel like it's from another planet, but then I'm whatever the American equivalent of an Anglophile would be and there are some minor parts that go flying over my head. American pop culture has been ingrained into my very DNA at this point so I get more than most.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 01:50
The US is large enough that Marten couldn't afford to visit his mother. (Or at least that was a convenient excuse).

One way to get a feel for how big it really is is to ride a train. Amtrak through Montana, 79 mph with no restaurant stops, takes almost 12 hours.

QC-land is an anomaly in US terms, in that everybody's home, work, and hangouts are all inside walking distance.

What, American trains don't have dining cars?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: bhtooefr on 29 Jan 2015, 02:47
Amtrak does have dining cars: http://www.amtrak.com/onboard-the-train-meals-dining
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 29 Jan 2015, 02:56
That it is, but unless I'm *really* hungry, at least on the Capital Corridor in CA, I'd rather bring my own food, and just hit the dining car for beer.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 29 Jan 2015, 03:17
It technically takes place in MA... I wouldn't eat on those trains. Also, many of us (50%ish) live in Suburbs. Trains don't go there because it's not cost effective.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 03:53
Catering on British trains used to be a national joke. Now it's just expensive and unmemorable, as opposed to the ticketing system which is almost as incomprehensible as the tax system.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: bhtooefr on 29 Jan 2015, 03:55
It's not cost-effectiveness (well, it is when you ignore that the roads are subsidized), it's actually racial tensions.

In the US, the suburbs exist because white people were afraid of black people. Much opposition to effective mass transit is actually along "but the scary black people can come here if there's mass transit!" lines.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 04:09
I really don't have an opinion on that, I'm sure others will so I'll leave it to them...

What I will remark, is the prevalence of railway tracks as a metaphor for, or symbol of division of various kinds in American towns. Friday Night Lights (the book, that is) contains quite a good example
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 29 Jan 2015, 04:14
Even in cities, there are certain lines that tend to get nicknamed the "ghetto express".  It's rather insulting and racist.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 29 Jan 2015, 04:19
It's not cost-effectiveness (well, it is when you ignore that the roads are subsidized), it's actually racial tensions.

In the US, the suburbs exist because white people were afraid of black people. Much opposition to effective mass transit is actually along "but the scary black people can come here if there's mass transit!" lines.

True, but in many places they've learned to disguise the racism that causes opposition to mass transit. Sometimes the alternate excuses they come up with are hilarious. When I was a teenager in Charlotte NC, there was a guy running for city council who opposed public transit on the grounds that it was "unbiblical". Though he could never point out exactly which verse in Leviticus forbade it.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: jwhouk on 29 Jan 2015, 07:49
The nearest Amtrak railroad depot from my apartment is 125 miles/over 2 hours away.

Only one route stops there: the Empire Builder. It stops at 6:27 PM on the outbound trip to Spokane/Seattle (arriving in Seattle 40 hours later). Inbound, it stops at 11:26 AM and arrives in Chicago at 3:55 PM. The train doesn't leave from Chicago until 2:15 PM the next day.

The railroad depot is essentially a whistle stop - no real parking to speak of, just a platform without any ticketing or baggage.

Thanks, Scottie W.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: bhtooefr on 29 Jan 2015, 07:56
It's over 2 hours to either of the nearest Amtrak depots in my case as well. To get to Amtrak without driving oneself, and without bumming a ride from a friend requires:

Vanshare to Columbus
Greyhound to either Cincinnati or Cleveland (depending on which route you want - Cleveland's route goes to Chicago to the west, or Pittsburgh, then DC to the east, Cincinnati's route goes to Indianapolis then Chicago to the west, or DC then NYC to the east)

And, the vanshare is of course set up around commuter schedules and not someone trying to travel somewhere as a one-off.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 29 Jan 2015, 08:37
I renamed the thread to maintain a pretence that's it's still on track...   :psyduck:
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Boomslang on 29 Jan 2015, 08:55
I'm out in Oregon, so a lot of the east coast stuff seems weird. We do have a lot of Amtrak around here- every city of any size has one, but that is admittedly because they're so far apart. Rather than light rail, we've got bus systems, and while there's nothing stopping the occasional obvious schizophrenic from making it uncomfortable, almost everyone rides it occasionally if only to save on gas and parking.

And out west, the '100 miles is a short distance, 100 years is a long time' rings very true. We've only been a state for 154 years. And with regards to density, the best comparison I came up with when talking to folks from the UK is that Oregon is more than three times the size of Scotland (255,026 km2 compared to 78,387 km2) and with a lot fewer people (3,970,239 and 5,327,700). If someone from the UK thinks that Scotland is an empty, desolate bit of countryside (and several I've talked to described it roughly in those terms) imagine it with even more space between where people live.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 10:10
Ah, but Oregon isn't symbolised (in some people's minds, at least) by an Australian, pretending to be an American, depicting a wholly fictitious version of a Scot....
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Pilchard123 on 29 Jan 2015, 10:12
Wut?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 10:16
...... Mel Gibson in Braveheart.

Actually, the sheer quantities of tartans unknown before the 1890s, sold to American tourists probably come under this heading.

The Gurkha Regiment (Nepalese mercenaries attached to the British Army) wear tartan and have a pipe band, under certain circumstances. Mind you, they have earnt the privilege of doing pretty much anything they please.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 29 Jan 2015, 10:34
Hey, I know the feeling - I grew up in Charlotte and have lived in Raleigh and Durham, three islands of sanity in the mess that is North Carolina.

To be fair, the Outer Banks isn't terrible either. That could be because they'd rather not scare off the tourists.


What, American trains don't have dining cars?


As has been pointed out, Amtrak does, but they're a national carrier operating at longer distances. You don't find dining/bar cars on the smaller regional carriers (like the LIRR, NJT, MTA, etc.), by and large.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 10:46
Most short-haul British and European trains have no catering facilities, either. Given that the longest unbroken train journey in UK is about 6 hours, few people eat on trains anyway other than snacks, sandwiches and hot drinks or cans of beer.

I was just puzzled by the reference to "restaurant stops"
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Jan 2015, 10:48
I'll try again.

Cross Montana by car, and you'll have to stop to eat.

Amtrak keeps going, as fast as I'd care to drive, while meals are served. In fact, no stops at all except to let freight trains past and to pick up/discharge passengers as fast as possible. It eliminates all the reasons you would drop to sublight speed if you were driving, like refilling the car or draining the driver.

The food quality, on the Empire Builder at least, is about that of a restaurant you'd go back to regularly if you lived close to it but not otherwise.

BTW, the Empire Builder route, start to finish, takes almost exactly 48 hours plus delays. Europe's shorter distances and faster trains probably make this sound bizarre to a European.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Penquin47 on 29 Jan 2015, 10:52
When driving, long driving times get somewhat inflated by the fact that you stop every few hours for a bathroom or meals.  I say it's a six hour drive from my parents' house in Amarillo to my aunt's house in Dallas, but probably somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour of that is spent at gas stations or a fast-food restaurant and not actually driving.  Trains don't make those stops.

I would think that passenger stops would be just as much dead time, though, but I've never made that trip by either car or train.

ETA: Google Maps says that from Beach, ND (just east of the Montana border) to Spokane, Washington (just west of the Montana border) along the Interstate is an 11.5 hour drive.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Jan 2015, 10:55
Amtrak hustles those through at most stops and announces to the people on board that they do not have enough time at the stop to get out and smoke.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 11:01
Oh, ok. I usually stop every couple of hours when I'm driving, but a road journey more than three hours in UK is unusual, and to drive for three hours without encountering some busy sections is pretty much unknown

How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

Intermediate stops on trains here are typically three minutes or so


Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Jan 2015, 11:19
There are no longer smoking cars, and smokers are warned that if they light up on board they will be left at the next stop.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 11:22
There are no longer smoking cars, and smokers are warned that if they light up on board they will be left at the next stop.

Sounds very American. I suppose the next thing is, you'll be telling me they don't have those platforms at the ends of carriages?

The last train I rode in the US was in Colorado, at Durango. There were various signs there about not smoking, which was a bit strange considering the engine's contribution.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Jan 2015, 11:49
Nope, and at a guess it's a safety thing, because they're afraid of people falling out of a moving train.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: LTK on 29 Jan 2015, 11:58
How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.
Wow, really? I would not have expected UK legislation to be so tolerant to smoking because I have not seen a smoking area on a train, ever. Not in the Netherlands, Germany, France, Denmark, or Sweden. The very notion seems absurd.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Random832 on 29 Jan 2015, 12:38
It's like another issue I saw somewhere recently, about a character visiting another in their apartment and having a conversation about "parking in the next street, so the Superintendent won't charge you for me". That is pretty much meaningless to a British or European reader, because the tenancy lease practices differ - you might need to notify your landlord for insurance reasons if someone moves in, but you can have all the house guests you like and it's no-one's business but yours

Is it possible they were talking about charging for the use of the parking space in particular?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: mountain_ash on 29 Jan 2015, 13:16
Smoking carriages used to be quite frequent on trains in the UK, but there haven't been any since the ban on smoking in workplaces which took effect in 2007, and according to my observations at least were becoming less common in the years leading up to that.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: questionablydiscontent on 29 Jan 2015, 16:12
I renamed the thread to maintain a pretence that's it's still on track...   :psyduck:
I'm taking that to be a pun :clairedoge: regardless of whether that was the intent.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Carl-E on 29 Jan 2015, 16:15
Oh no, that's standard terminology.  Threads get derailed all the time... :/
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 29 Jan 2015, 17:26
And it fell to Paul to change tracks with the title.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Jan 2015, 17:31
As long as nobody got distrackted.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 29 Jan 2015, 17:56
If you keep this up, someone's going to get run out of town on a rail.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 29 Jan 2015, 18:23
Smoking carriages used to be quite frequent on trains in the UK, but there haven't been any since the ban on smoking in workplaces which took effect in 2007, and according to my observations at least were becoming less common in the years leading up to that.

Yeah, it was torture.  When I lived in Scotland, it was before that, but, essentially, smokers and people who wanted to talk on their mobile phones were confined together in certain carriages.  Us smokers had to suffer their noise pollution, they had to suffer our air pollution.  A fitting mix, actually.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 18:44
I can't believe anyone actually ANSWERED the question about the platforms on carriages.....

I looked up the smoking on trains thing, because of a couple of recent experiences. I find that Scottish law differs from English law, as it often does, and it is legal to smoke if the platform isn't an enclosed area and doesn't otherwise specifucally prohibit it.

The Dutch have a complex range of unenforceable laws which are widely disregarded and result in smoking being legal, or sort-of legal, or done anyway in various areas. FRANCE appears to be similar.

Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose. Usually they call the police (civil or railway depending on the circumstances)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 29 Jan 2015, 19:20
They do, and they will exercise it, though they've been known to look the other way depending on the nature of the infraction. You're not technically supposed to drink on the train, for instance. Do it quietly and don't make an ass of yourself, however, and you can generally enjoy your beverage of choice in peace. Get loud, puke, or piss yourself, and you're off the train (hasn't happened to me, but I've seen it happen). I've also been on trains that were delayed because of technical issues, and a few of us discreetly snuck cigarettes at an open window at one of the conductor's operating stations between the cars. Given that we'd been sitting in the same spot for two hours at that point and were vaguely apologetic (well, that, and the fact that we weren't smoking in the car where the other passengers would be subjected to it), they let us slide. As for platforms, if it's open air and you're staying away/downwind from the nonsmokers, the station employees often leave you alone.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 29 Jan 2015, 19:26
Dude, on Amtrak they serve booze.  I typically have a drink or two whilst watching films on my laptop. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 20:33
British trains don't generally have opening windows these days.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: jwhouk on 29 Jan 2015, 20:44
It has been like forever since I set foot on an Amtrak train, so I can't even begin to comment about how service is. The only train I ever took was the Hiawatha (Milwaukee-Chicago service), and that was before most of the posters in here were even born.

Wife and I, before I got transferred up here to the Great North Woods, contemplated doing a train trip to AZ. Only problem: Amtrak doesn't serve Phoenix proper; it stops at Maricopa - which is about 50 miles away from where my dad lives in the Valley.

Also, the train only runs three days a week.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 29 Jan 2015, 20:59
Dude, on Amtrak they serve booze.  I typically have a drink or two whilst watching films on my laptop.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to NJ Transit, MTA and LIRR... should probably have been more specific.

British trains don't generally have opening windows these days.

Ours don't either (just a zip strip that you take out if the window needs to be kicked out in an emergency). But some of the passenger cars have windows that open, where the train operator would sit if the train was going in the other direction. The train I was on that night had an extra, and that's where we were.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Carl-E on 29 Jan 2015, 21:09
Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose. Usually they call the police (civil or railway depending on the circumstances)

Yes, the conductors do have that authority.  In addition, the railways have their own police whose jurisdiction matches the railroad right-of-way, crossing state lines and trumping local authorities (who they usually work with anyway). 

Most of the cases they get called out for are suicides.  I used to play poker with a rail officer. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 29 Jan 2015, 21:18
Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose. Usually they call the police (civil or railway depending on the circumstances)

Yes, the conductors do have that authority.  In addition, the railways have their own police whose jurisdiction matches the railroad right-of-way, crossing state lines and trumping local authorities (who they usually work with anyway). 

Most of the cases they get called out for are suicides.  I used to play poker with a rail officer.

Railway police in UK have, essentially, the same authority as the civil police, but only within defined areas related to the railway. They usually deal with suicides and accidents involving third parties, although the civil police may do this depending on circumstances.

Civil police aren't usually involved in issues specifucally involving railway bye-laws, unless the situation becomes violent or abusive. However few, if any train conductors will put such matters to the test - why do that? Let the police deal with it.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 29 Jan 2015, 22:38
Railways here don't have their own Police, but the Conductors do have a certain level of authority, including the ability to put someone off the Train if needs be.  If the situation calls for it, they will call the Police.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrillho on 30 Jan 2015, 01:17
How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

This isn't even slightly true. Smoking on trains, or in train stations, is completely banned as it has been in all public areas since 2007.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 30 Jan 2015, 01:27
Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose

I was once put off a train for putting my bicycle in the luggage compartment without a luggage label on it (I had the label in my hand and was writing it).  Well, I wasn't - but the guard threw (literally) the bike out onto the platform and rang the bell to let the driver start, so I had to get off quick!
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Pilchard123 on 30 Jan 2015, 01:57
So you had him hauled up for being an arse?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 30 Jan 2015, 02:02
What makes you think that could even be a starter?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Pilchard123 on 30 Jan 2015, 02:14
The guy threw your stuff off the train when it was clear that you were trying to comply with the requirements (what are you supposed to do with your bike? Leave it blocking the corridor while you write the label?), then didn't give you reasonable time to either recover it or leave the train so you could wait for the next one with it. I got the impression that he didn't even warn you about it (maybe that's just how I read it).

Surely that warrants at least a stern talking-to from someone higher up.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 30 Jan 2015, 02:42
Probably.  But what would it actually have achieved?  He had the defence that the bike was literally in breach of the regulations, because it should already have had the label on; discussing it with me could have delayed the train slightly on one of the tightest scheduled pieces of railway track in the world; I was never going to meet him again, and he would have taken his bad temper at being reported out on half a dozen other passengers (of course, maybe that's what happened to me).
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 30 Jan 2015, 02:42

True, but in many places they've learned to disguise the racism that causes opposition to mass transit. Sometimes the alternate excuses they come up with are hilarious. When I was a teenager in Charlotte NC, there was a guy running for city council who opposed public transit on the grounds that it was "unbiblical". Though he could never point out exactly which verse in Leviticus forbade it.

Unbiblical?  I wonder if the guy has ever worn mixed fibres.  According to Leviticus, that's a stoning offence.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 30 Jan 2015, 02:47
How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

This isn't even slightly true. Smoking on trains, or in train stations, is completely banned as it has been in all public areas since 2007.

Well, I don't smoke and rarely use trains these days - I don't even work in the UK most of the time - so I'll just plead  ignorance
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrillho on 30 Jan 2015, 03:08
Ah fair enough, you sounded quite authoritative about it so it seemed a bit odd. Worry not!

For what it's worth, as an ex-smoker, I'm still finding my vapouriser to be an amusing grey area. It's not officially banned in public places yet (although that will obviously be coming soon) but I'm finding that in some places I can use it indoors with no problem and others I can't.

As an example, I make a regular train journey at the weekends and have found that I can use my vape actually on the platform at my nearest station, but at Paddington I have to go stand outside with the smokers. Anyone who's been to that station will know it has a long sort of driveway as its main entrance, with the smoking area on one side of it and the other side being smoke free, and on more than one occasion, despite the fact that I wasn't smoking, I've been actually moved along into the smoking area for just using my vape there.

(I for one think this is stupid. Some people theorise that people using vapes in public will encourage more people to use them or that it will make them smoke - the NHS people I've spoken to have said there's no evidence of this. I would argue it's far stupider sending people with vaporisers to actual smoking areas. It's like saying a recovering alcoholic can only drink non-alcoholic beer in bars, and absolutely nowhere else, or sending a heroin addict to take their methadone in an opium den.)

Given the lack of legislation around vapes (and indeed, lack of signs) I've often taken it as read that I can just use it almost anywhere unless told otherwise so if it's a late night and no ticket inspectors are around I sometimes even use it actually on the trains.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 30 Jan 2015, 03:26
I don't know about vapes.

I did use trains regularly until about 2006 or 2007 but I pretty much sbandoned tbe effort to make a living in UK after that, so I'm a bit out of date on that it seems
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 30 Jan 2015, 03:32
Gawds, I remember even when it was technically not kosher to smoke in tube stations that it was tolerated, if not normal. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 30 Jan 2015, 03:35
Gawds, I remember even when it was technically not kosher to smoke in tube stations that it was tolerated, if not normal.

Kings Cross put a stop to that...
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 30 Jan 2015, 04:31
I was in the next station along the line when that happened.  One of those scary what-if moments.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Oilman on 30 Jan 2015, 04:35
I was commuting to London through Kings X at the time. No, it wasn't a happy feeling for sure
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 30 Jan 2015, 10:47
The difference in both size of the US, and the suckiness of our train/bus system. If I decided to get on a train to go from Atlanta, GA to Seattle, WA, it would take me 84 hours to get there.

In comparison, you could do a train/bus route from Lisbon, Portugal to St. Petersburg, Russia in 67.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrudd on 30 Jan 2015, 10:58
Late to the discussion and the topic seems to have switched tracks and sidings multiple times. Oh well.

(click to show/hide)

As train systems go, having synchronzied clocks and having the trains travel on time [passenger and freight] makes a world of difference.
I was kind of dissapointed the last time I used British Rail, it is almost as if they were learning from Amtrak and doing their darnedest to ignore past history and how things just work in central Europe.
Trains in Eastern Europe in some locals make me feel like its 1902 all over again. :roll:
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 30 Jan 2015, 12:38
Really, our cities just aren't built for public trans or walking. The only city I can think of that's not built on a grid is Boston, but that's mostly just because it was built up with no plan 100's of years ago.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: bhtooefr on 30 Jan 2015, 12:39
Plenty of grid cities are just fine for walking, and many east coast cities were designed for it.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 30 Jan 2015, 12:52
My point is just that they're car-centric first and foremost, not that you can't walk at all in them. NYC is fine for walking and transit.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: bhtooefr on 30 Jan 2015, 12:56
They've been converted to be car-centric (or had their core surrounded by car-centric suburbs), but a lot of them predate the car by quite a lot.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 30 Jan 2015, 13:03
The problem with walking cities isn't really the grid system, but the zoning system. Walking friendly cities have mixed purpose areas, where anywhere you find residences  you will also find a variety of shops and places to work. Usually with some sort of public transport system to get from area to area, making the need for personal cars minimal. The US is very fond of zoning by usage though. So unless you happen to live within close distance of a commercial zone, or within an apartment complex in a downtown mixed use zone (both of which command much higher rents and costs of living than most residential zones) then you could be up to several miles away from any kind of business.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 30 Jan 2015, 14:50
Really, our cities just aren't built for public trans or walking. The only city I can think of that's not built on a grid is Boston, but that's mostly just because it was built up with no plan 100's of years ago.

Boston's streets actually make perfect sense if you take into account the fact that they were built to avoid geographic obstacles that are largely no longer there. A lot of area that was formerly water has been filled in to make new land (which is why we have a neighborhood called the "Back Bay" - it actually was a bay a couple of hundred years ago.) And some formerly pretty steep hills have been completely leveled to provide the fill dirt for that new land.

I'll have to see if I can find a map of where Boston's shoreline was 300 years ago compared to where it is today. It's a dramatic difference.

Edit - here we go. It's a pretty crappy gif but it shows you what I'm talking about:
(http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/boston/bos1820.gif)

More info, for anyone who's interested in the subject (recognizing that not everyone is as big a history geek as I am): http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/bos_fill.html (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/bos_fill.html)

Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 30 Jan 2015, 15:01
That's actually really cool, I love geographic history. I learned stuff today :D
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 30 Jan 2015, 18:49
My own City, Wellington (and, to a lesser extent, the Hutt Valley where I live which is for the most part, flat) has it's Transportation issues, not the least of which is the fact that the Wellington City itself is, for the most part, hilly.

We have a very good Public Transport system compared to our big cousin up north, but there are issues due to the layout of the city itself, including narrow streets in some of the Hill Suburbs.

There is a lot of Reclaimed Land along the central city Waterfront, and a good portion of the flatter parts of the central City itself are built on Reclamed Land. The main Road/Rail link out to the Hutt Valley actually runs along land that was both thrust up during the last big Quake here and Reclaimed to expand and widen it.

(http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naturespic.com%2FNewZealand%2Fimage.asp%3Fid%3D40698&ei=skHMVPihDI3j8AX79oGgCg&bvm=bv.85076809,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNFawI6bKhLFwafAbRUeB7o1mwE1FA&ust=1422758620747428)
(http://http://www.naturespic.com/i/40877TC00_w.jpg)(http://hotelwaterloo.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/resizedimage500331-wellington-from-the-air.jpg)


Just to give you a fair idea of just how MUCH Reclaimed Land there is here, brought about by both natural and man-made means, this is a Computer Image made of Wellington before the great Horowhenua Quake in the 15th Century that, for the most part, uplifted a major portion of the land that Wellington City now sits on.

(http://www.teara.govt.nz/files/p4383gns.jpg)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Boomslang on 30 Jan 2015, 19:04
Is it wrong of me to think that the most awesome part of your post was that you live in a place called the Hutt Valley?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Storel on 31 Jan 2015, 10:53
My own City, Wellington (and, to a lesser extent, the Hutt Valley where I live which is for the most part, flat) has it's Transportation issues, not the least of which is the fact that the Wellington City itself is, for the most part, hilly.

San Francisco has that problem, too. That's why we're one of the few places that has electric trolley buses on some lines -- they can get up hills better than diesel buses, especially when fully packed with passengers, and they don't require as much infrastructure as streetcars/light rail systems: no tracks to lay.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 31 Jan 2015, 13:54
And the interesting thing here Storel is that we had Trams here right up to the Postwar Period, when we traded them in for Buses.  Electric Trolley Buses have been a fixture here as well as Diesel Buses for as long as we have had Buses.

Now here's the kicker

Wellington City Council, which runs the Inner City Buses, has, in its infinite wisdom, decided to do away with the Electric Trolley Buses and replace its entire fleet with Diesel Buses.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 31 Jan 2015, 13:58
Is it wrong of me to think that the most awesome part of your post was that you live in a place called the Hutt Valley?

Nope  :D

The Hutt Valley is the flat land area you see in the top of the second image looking directly up from the top end of 'Island' of land called Motukairangi, directly across the harbour.

The small Island in the middle of the harbour is known as Soams Island and has been used as everything from a defensible Pa sight by the local Maori in Pre-European times to a Qurantine Island for people or animals, a Prison Camp for 'Illegals' during both World Wars right up to now where it's a Wildlife Sanctuary and Restricted Access Tourist Spot.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 31 Jan 2015, 19:07
Isn't all that "made" land a bit worrisome, given earthquake concerns and whatnot?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 31 Jan 2015, 20:43
It is, especially all the reclaimed land around the Waterfront and the main Container Terminal which was done in the late 1960's and early 1970's

Te Papa, the National Museum Of New Zealand actually sits on Reclaimed Land, and the construction took several years as they actually had to pound the land down and drive deep piles in to stableise the land it sits on.  It was built with the latest in Earthquake Strengthening Technology, though I will note, that that was State Of The Art for when it was built, which was in the mid to late 1990's.

Parliament Buildings and The Beehive, which underwent a massive multimillion dollar Earthquake Refit in the late 80's, early 90's is now considered to be at risk from a major quake, the reassessment taking place in light of the events in Christchurch.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 31 Jan 2015, 21:53
I saw something on TV a while back where a museum -- I think in San Francisco -- was retrofitted with a motion/vibration damping system that would allow the building to move as a unit, protecting it from the shaking of an earthquake. Problem is, I'd assume that something like that would require a bedrock foundation. I know that NYC got a bit of a wake-up call a few years back when an earthquake hit Virginia that could be felt up this way... a stronger quake (and there are fault lines in the tri-state area, even if they're not anywhere near as active as the ones on the Pacific Rim) would absolutely raise hell with Battery Park and other parts of the city that're basically built on sand.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Storel on 31 Jan 2015, 23:26
Now here's the kicker

Wellington City Council, which runs the Inner City Buses, has, in its infinite wisdom, decided to do away with the Electric Trolley Buses and replace its entire fleet with Diesel Buses.

Because they've decided to level all the hills and use them for landfill/"made land"? Brilliant!

Oh, they're not leveling all the hills?  Brilliant... :roll:
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: ankhtahr on 01 Feb 2015, 00:34
I probably live in one of the most artificially designed cities in Germany. Karlsruhe's layout is a little bit similar to Washington DC
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Feb 2015, 01:11
I like Karlsruhe; my son lived there for a while (he's back in Marbach now). 

It's also home to the best microphone manufacturer of all (Schoeps), and has a well above average opera house.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 01 Feb 2015, 11:34
Now here's the kicker

Wellington City Council, which runs the Inner City Buses, has, in its infinite wisdom, decided to do away with the Electric Trolley Buses and replace its entire fleet with Diesel Buses.

Because they've decided to level all the hills and use them for landfill/"made land"? Brilliant!

Oh, they're not leveling all the hills?  Brilliant... :roll:

Whaddaya expect, they're Politicians!
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: gprimr1 on 02 Feb 2015, 08:12
Based on where QC is set, it is far from an over representation of homosexuality. Real life Northampton is very much like it's portrayed in the comics. Lots of diversity of all kinds.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: tacroy on 02 Feb 2015, 10:29
Based on where QC is set, it is far from an over representation of homosexuality. Real life Northampton is very much like it's portrayed in the comics. Lots of diversity of all kinds.

While I don't agree with all of the OP's points (and will admit to not having followed the entire thread since then), it does touch on a similar thought I had.

I love the comic and have been reading since a few months after launch (my forum registration is on page 6, of over a hundred), but QC especially in the past year or two, has become not just inclusive but exhaustively inclusive.  Off the top of my head, the comic has: gay parents, a sex worker, a lesbian relationship (of which one partner is bi), an interracial relationship, a trans person, a prominent suicide, a person with significant (if often joked about) mental health issues, several people in financial distress, workplace equality issues (albeit addressed through an android), and now, presumably, an addict.  Each of these has had fairly significant plot time.

There's nothing wrong with this (I'd agree with the above quoted that it is fairly reflective of the actual Northampton), but at times this effort to give everyone screen time makes the plot arcs somewhat predictable.  Claire and Marten were perhaps the strongest example of this for me, as their relationship felt telegraphed more or less from the moment she came out.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: gprimr1 on 02 Feb 2015, 10:40
I can see what your saying. Honestly, I think those are all kinds of people you'd meet in real life Northampton (there are strip clubs down the road in Hoyloke and Springfield) and I think it all fits with stuff I experienced living there.

But Northampton is just that, a liberal college town  in a liberal state in a liberal part of the country. The cast and stories fit what you would expect there. If QC were set in Odessa Texas, it would be a different story. :)
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 02 Feb 2015, 12:20
I've never been even though I only live an hour away from Northampton. But by all accounts from people I know who've been there it's portrayed pretty accurately. Kinda like a watered down version of Portland.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: jwhouk on 02 Feb 2015, 18:27
I think you would get derision from Marten (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1919) if you described NoHam as "Portland Lite".
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 02 Feb 2015, 19:20
I should go myself one of these days and find out. Mine as well catch a UMASS game or something.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Orkboy on 02 Feb 2015, 20:26
I think you would get derision from Marten (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1919) if you described NoHam as "Portland Lite".

I don't know why, but the abbreviation "NoHam" is absurdly funny to me. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 02 Feb 2015, 20:48
It's kosher
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: TRVA123 on 02 Feb 2015, 21:29
I love the comic and have been reading since a few months after launch (my forum registration is on page 6, of over a hundred), but QC especially in the past year or two, has become not just inclusive but exhaustively inclusive.  Off the top of my head, the comic has: gay parents, a sex worker, a lesbian relationship (of which one partner is bi), an interracial relationship, a trans person, a prominent suicide, a person with significant (if often joked about) mental health issues, several people in financial distress, workplace equality issues (albeit addressed through an android), and now, presumably, an addict.  Each of these has had fairly significant plot time.

Idk, I mean, I hail from the midwest (near a city, but still not a liberal paradise, by any means) and every thing you mentioned are present in my life.

The thing is that a lot of these are things that people don't talk about. You probably know a few gay people, you probably know someone who has been/is a sex worker, you probably know someone who had a close relative commit suicide, someone who is an alcoholic/addict, you definitely know someone suffering from depression, and people who are poor. These are just things that aren't immediately visible. If someone doesn't choose to share those details with you, you probably won't be aware that those things are going on.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Feb 2015, 01:16
I love the comic and have been reading since a few months after launch (my forum registration is on page 6, of over a hundred), but QC especially in the past year or two, has become not just inclusive but exhaustively inclusive.  Off the top of my head, the comic has: gay parents, a sex worker, a lesbian relationship (of which one partner is bi), an interracial relationship, a trans person, a prominent suicide, a person with significant (if often joked about) mental health issues, several people in financial distress, workplace equality issues (albeit addressed through an android), and now, presumably, an addict.  Each of these has had fairly significant plot time.

Idk, I mean, I hail from the midwest (near a city, but still not a liberal paradise, by any means) and every thing you mentioned are present in my life.

The thing is that a lot of these are things that people don't talk about. You probably know a few gay people, you probably know someone who has been/is a sex worker, you probably know someone who had a close relative commit suicide, someone who is an alcoholic/addict, you definitely know someone suffering from depression, and people who are poor. These are just things that aren't immediately visible. If someone doesn't choose to share those details with you, you probably won't be aware that those things are going on.

Also, the majority of these things are generally massively under-represented in the media. If nothing else QC is doing a bit of redressing the balance.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 03 Feb 2015, 06:19
I really don't even see it as redressing a balance. Jeph just writes things as they are. I don't see any kind of agenda to his writing. The closest I can think of was his wanting to make sure he wrote Claire's story right (which I think he has). But yeah... All of those things being talked about? Been around them for most of my life. I think everyone has to some degree or another. The only question is how aware of it they are.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: gprimr1 on 03 Feb 2015, 08:59
I think Clare's story got off a little easy. That was the closest I've ever come to wondering if Jeff has an agenda.

I wouldn't mind seeing a story arc were a character has some trouble with acceptance.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: TRVA123 on 03 Feb 2015, 09:04
To be fair, Claire is not out to everyone in the cast. In fact, I think only 4 characters know about her; Marten, Emily, Claire mom, and Clinton.

There could be more drama ahead, but I think Jeph is focused on a different plot thread at the moment.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Boomslang on 03 Feb 2015, 09:26
Additionally, Claire is clearly, based on character's reactions in comic, visually a woman. A lot of the trans issues I've seen happen to folks around me have at least partially involved the fact the trans person was not, in appearance, clearly their internal gender. Even people who aren't biased against transgender folks can have difficulty when dealing with strangers who are trans, and this is magnified when there is confusion as to whether someone is, in fact, trans. Obviously it gets worse when dealing with people who are biased (as usual). But all of that is predicated on appearance. If someone truly appears to be the gender they consider themselves, they're going to encounter very little social friction in comparison to someone who is attempting to overcome a conflict between the two.

Because Claire seems to be female to the typical person, she's simply not going to deal with as much conflict in her typical life, and since she's successfully maintained that information amongst close friends, it's hard to see how she would be treated any differently than a woman who wasn't trans by anyone around her. I could easily see folks being jealous of how 'easy' her transition has been compared to their own (that might well have been expressed in the forum already and I simply missed the whole shebang).
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 03 Feb 2015, 11:09
Honestly, as a trans woman and someone who reads a lot of trans focused stories, I am happy with Claire's story. A lot of other stories with trans main characters focus on the troubles and trials of being transgender in a society that looks down on us. And those are fine, those are stories that need to be tell. However they can get pretty depressing. Here we have a character who transitioned early and is accepted without question by her peers. That's a nice, positive story. And honestly those are stories that I would like to see more of, they are pretty rare. Stories where being trans is just one aspect of their character, rather than the driving force behind most of the plot lines. The troubles of being a transgender person haven't been avoided... Claire and Clinton's discussions about her safety. Claire and Marten talking about it when she first came out, and then when they started dating. I find that both the importance of her being trans is appropriate to the tone of the comic and the character.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Aziraphale on 03 Feb 2015, 12:58
I think Clare's story got off a little easy. That was the closest I've ever come to wondering if Jeff has an agenda.

I wouldn't mind seeing a story arc were a character has some trouble with acceptance.

Sometimes the challenges in storytelling -- as well as the better, more nuanced characters -- come when you play against those expectations, though. As Neko mentions, there are plenty of stories day to day (including the four trans* individuals murdered so far in 2015 just in the US, incidentally) about the difficulties of transitioning and being accepted. While I assume (I can't speak from experience on this one) that both of those things are significant concerns to many, if not most, trans people, I would also assume that trans individuals' inner lives and their outer manifestations are so much more than that. I don't know that the decision thus far to mostly elide the transition part of Claire's story represents an "agenda" as such, but I think it actually leaves the door further open to allowing Claire to shine for all that she is, and I'd posit that her trans-ness (the same as Neko's or anyone else's, if I may be so bold) is just one small piece of a much larger and more variegated puzzle.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: DSL on 03 Feb 2015, 17:07
I think Clare's story got off a little easy. That was the closest I've ever come to wondering if Jeff has an agenda.

I wouldn't mind seeing a story arc were a character has some trouble with acceptance.

Well, there's May.
As to Claire, I like the fact that her trans* status isn't the be-all and end-all of her character. Fascinating take on the subject came from TV writer David Gerrold (the Star Trek Tribble guy) who made the case for adjectives, not nouns: Someone isblack, is gay, is whatever instead of a black, a gay, a whatever. Subtle, but it slides in the idea that a person's given characteristic isn't always the most important characteristic.

As for an "agenda," I take at face value what Jeph said is his agenda: People are not perfect, they will screw up, no one is right or wrong all the time, and they should try to get along anyway.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Feb 2015, 21:25
Just so. The Creator has been crystal clear about this.

Quote from: Jeph, long ago in response to a bad situation here
It's idiotic bullshit like this that makes me tell people in the real world what a shitheap this forum is. Everybody's got an agenda and they're all trying to attach it to the comics.

For future reference, if you're trying to divine some overarching moral standpoint from my comic: the moral of my comic is that people should try to be nice to each other.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 03 Feb 2015, 22:18
And that is all that needs to be said about that.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Blackbird on 05 Feb 2015, 18:56
QC especially in the past year or two, has become not just inclusive but exhaustively inclusive.

As a person of colour, I have to disagree. Emily is there to echo the internet's favourite stereotype of "Japanese people are weird", and Dale is ambiguously brown but otherwise a prototypical gamer dork.  Neither of them does much to capture the experience of being nonwhite in a largely white community.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 05 Feb 2015, 19:15
I'm white, so obviously, there's no way I've experience in dealing with such things personally, so I only have observation and speculation to rely on </disclaimer>

I don't know the demographics in the North Hampton area, so my only familiarity with University towns in California could potentially apply, and various flavours of Asian tend to be over-represented, compared to state demographics as a whole, whilst those of African or Latino ancestry are under-represented amongst the same.  I don't *think* that Jeph is deliberately white-washing the comic, but yeah, I think that your points stand, even if it's non-intentional (and for bonus points, Emily also fits the "nerdy Asian" stereotype).  If the NH (no, not that one) fits better with the comic's demographic, I wouldn't have much concern, myself, since it fits the world, I don't think it'd be as bothersome.   Hell, there are more robots near the main cast than non-white characters, and they have shown more development, aside from the exceptions of Tai, and Padma's brief run.

I hope that both Emily and Dale get more development, especially since Emily is close enough to Claire that she felt comfortable coming-out to her, and Marigold being close to the main cast, and both being with Dale and him working at CoD, that he'll get more development. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Feb 2015, 19:26
Actually, yes, Massachusetts as a whole is very white compared to much of the rest of the US. Having lived in North Carolina until three years ago, I found the difference quite jarring - I never lived in a town that was less than 30% black until I moved to Massachusetts. Durham NC, where I lived before I moved, has no racial majority. Whereas Arlington is - well, let me quote Wikipedia here: "83.6% White, 2.3% African American, 0.1% Native American, 8.3% Asian, 0.4% from other races, and 2.1% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.3% of the population." And believe it or not, Northampton is even whiter - 87.7%, to be exact.

So yeah, if you're used to a lot of diversity, QC may seem whitewashed. But it's actually not out of line with the real-world demographics of the area.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Feb 2015, 19:32
Out of curiosity I looked up some towns around the area where I grew up...
Quote from: Wikipedia article on Lonaconing, Maryland
The racial makeup of the town was 98.1% White, 0.3% African American, 0.2% Asian, and 1.4% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.5% of the population.
Yup, that sounds about like Lonaconing.

edit -- there's another town further down the creek (Luke) that Wikipedia says is 100.0% white, but that's cheating a little because there are only 18 people in that town.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Emperor Norton on 05 Feb 2015, 19:45
I grew up in an area that is about 60% white, 33% black, with a touch of everything else. I remember when one of my friends I grew up with, went to University at Rhodes College in Memphis, he said one of his classmates from up in the New England area (but not from a major city) was amazed at "how many blacks were in the school." There were like, maybe 100, in a college that has about 2k students. My friend was just like "wut"?
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: hedgie on 05 Feb 2015, 19:55
I'd say that San Francisco was, in terms of numbers, SF was the most diverse city that I have lived in, but there was a *lot* of self-segregation along ethnic lines, largely due to prior racism/classism.  Where I lived was largely Chinese, with plenty of of Irish, then "everyone else" mixed in, I cross the park, and it's more Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese.  I take a couple of tram lines, and suddenly, it's largely Mexican, white bohemians, and Irish forced out of one of their enclaves due to gentrification.  'Tis rather sad that our species still hasn't overcome the sort of tribalist attitudes that have killed/hurt so many.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 05 Feb 2015, 20:30
I grew up in an area that is about 60% white, 33% black, with a touch of everything else. I remember when one of my friends I grew up with, went to University at Rhodes College in Memphis, he said one of his classmates from up in the New England area (but not from a major city) was amazed at "how many blacks were in the school." There were like, maybe 100, in a college that has about 2k students. My friend was just like "wut"?

That's odd, all my friends where I went to school in NE are black. Then again, I guess I'm the odd one seeing as my town is about 5% black. The cities are still majority black though.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Feb 2015, 05:19
The cities are still majority black though.

Cities are majority black? In New England? Are we talking about the same New England? Because here are some numbers:

Hartford CT      38.7% African-American
Bridgeport CT      34.6% African-American
Boston MA      27.3% African-American
Springfield MA       22.3% African-American
Providence RI      16% African-American
Portland ME      7.1% African-American
Manchester NH      4.1% African-American
Burlington VT      3.5% African-American

In fact, I couldn't find a single municipality in all of New England with a majority black population.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 06 Feb 2015, 05:32
Does QC seem like something from another planet to non-US readers, or are most of the themes universal?

I live in Sofia, Bulgaria. Marten's attitudes and friend circle seem similar to mine, but, as Akima said, "then something will come along to remind me of how intensely foreign America is, in a manner that is almost jarring in contrast." And except that there's too few LGBT people in the cast compared.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Blackbird on 06 Feb 2015, 06:34
I do want to clarify that I don't think QC should have a racially diverse cast or anything.  It's set in a town that's 87% white in the real world, and its rare to find fully racially-integrated social circles even in more racially diverse areas anyway.   Too much diversity would ring false.   I brought up the lack of racial diversity as just one of the bigger examples of how this comic isn't as inclusive as some people claim (and it's the one that sticks out to me for obvious, selfish reasons).  It's neither good nor bad, it just is. 
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Feb 2015, 07:10
So this has brought me some curiosity... Atlanta, where I live has a racial demographics of 54% African American, 36% White. Seems about right to me, though the area I live in has a much higher percentage of black people (My room mate and I are the only white folk in several blocks, at least). Other areas have much heavier white, Hispanic or Korean presences.

The town where I was born however shows 92% white, 7% Hispanic and 1% African American. If anything, it seems they've got more non-white people in since I moved away... It wasn't until I moved to another state when I was 10 years old that I met a person of color...

Among my social circles (specifically the gamer circles I hang around locally) it's pretty rare to see anyone non-white. I know more female gamers than black gamers in the area...

So yeah, personal anecdotes out of the way, I would say Jeph hits racial dynamics pretty square on. Most of the cast is white, enough that those who aren't tend to stick out more. But nobody really seems to care. I know that Jeph  hasn't shown a lot of discrimination in the comic... and it's usually aimed at the robot cast. I wouldn't expect that anybody in the cast would have cared about Marten and Padma dating, or Marigold and Dale. I might have my opinions on that colored by where I live though... Atlanta is a strange blue dot in a very red state. There are still a lot of people around here that take a dim, sometimes violent view on 'race mixing'. Dora and Tai I think are a slightly different case. Tai is described by others as a 'non-descript brown' which could pass off as just a dark tan. And honestly, if people were going to be objecting about their relationship it would probably be more likely because they are the same sex.

Not that I want to have Jeph make the Klan show up or have nasty slurs spray painted on someone's door here.. Enough of that in real life thank you.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: gprimr1 on 06 Feb 2015, 10:21
I am white, and I grew up in an area that was

64% Black
19% White
4% Asian
8% Other


I would say Jeff is pretty much on for Northampton.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Kugai on 06 Feb 2015, 11:37
In the area I live it's a mixed population

European is a fair majority of the population
Samoan and various Pacific Island groups
Maori, but that appears to be a smaller percentage of the population than you'd think
Chinese, but they are also a small population
Indian and Pakistani  (And the old joke holds true here, they run the local Dairys and Minimarket)
Vietnamese, but they also are a VERY small population demographic
Somali - this has been a growth population in the last decade or so with Refugees coming into the community.
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Thrudd on 06 Feb 2015, 11:47
The place where I was born was and still is 100% AngloSaxon Protestant - My family was the only Catholics in the area and were "Jerrys".
Lucky for me, most likely, and my soon to appear siblings, the parental units did some moving around and we ended up in a village in Ontario.
One of the things I learned early on before even starting school was "Do Not Say you are German" "If asked Say your relatives are in Poland" which was true since they did move the borders and changed all the town names.

Going to school my social circle was very small yet  made friends with the only AfroCanadian [ Ivory Coast and was as extroverted as I was introverted} and did not have an IndoCanadian classmate till middle school.

The local demographics has taken a couple of major shifts and stripped a lot of gears since then.

Looking at the place now, the demographic is approximately Indo, wast Indian, arabic, african, East european, mediteranean and lastly WASP, south asian and nordic [ I mention that last since I know a family from Finland on my street]

Yeah, I went from being a hidden minority, to being an obvious minority.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Isyrion on 06 Feb 2015, 11:52
Where I live along the Rio Grande River (I plan to move very soon) its overwhelming latino, talking in upwards of 88% if you count mixed race.  I feel Jeph is right on for New England.  If he did a comic based on where I live I would expect the cast to be at least somewhat latino decent.

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Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: explicit on 06 Feb 2015, 12:33
The cities are still majority black though.

Cities are majority black? In New England? Are we talking about the same New England? Because here are some numbers:

Hartford CT      38.7% African-American
Bridgeport CT      34.6% African-American
Boston MA      27.3% African-American
Springfield MA       22.3% African-American
Providence RI      16% African-American
Portland ME      7.1% African-American
Manchester NH      4.1% African-American
Burlington VT      3.5% African-American

In fact, I couldn't find a single municipality in all of New England with a majority black population.

Huh, I guess I didn't actually look, I only felt that way seeing as whenever I go to Hartford I'm only in the black part of town I guess. Maybe I've just been skewed to think that way because most the football teams I've played have been a majority black players... That's something for me to think about I guess.

I guess I should have said there are cities where white people are in the minority, because that is actually accurate.

My baaaaaddddd
Title: Re: How QC and webcomics generally relate to the real USA
Post by: Orkboy on 06 Feb 2015, 15:25
Ethnic diversity has seemed like an odd point to me since my time in the military.  See, when someone in the US talks about diversity, what they they actually mean is (usually) how brown someone is.  Regardless of ethnicity, though, people living in an area are going to deal with the same terrible traffic on that one major road, cheer for the same local sports teams, talk about the same local politician who got caught doing something embarrassing, and chat about the same unseasonal weather.  I worked with a group of people who were diverse in a different way.  We had people from all corners of the country (literally: an Airman from Anchorage, Alaska and another from El Paso, Texas), a guy who grew up on the US base in Germany, another from Guam, and these two guys who had, respectively, been a prison guard and a convict.  I enlisted just before Don't Ask Don't Tell was repealed, but we had a few people in the squadron who were pretty obviously gay, and none of us cared as long as they got their work done.  On the other hand, we also had the backwoods country boy who had never met a gay person before and was more than a little uncomfortable with the rampant homoerotic military humor.  There was ethnic diversity (though it seemed like most of the squadron was at least a little Irish), but it never seemed like a thing.  My wingman was never "that Irish/Mexican/Native American/Asian guy," he was "that dude from Seattle."  Really, my wingman was 1/4 Irish, 1/4 Mexican, 1/4 Chinese, and 1/4 Chahalis tribe.

I don't really know what my point is, thanks to sleep-deprivation madness, but I think it might be that diversity means different things depending on who uses the word.