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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Tartar Martyr on 03 Jun 2005, 10:11
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I want to introduce my cousins to good music. One is 10 and has a very short attention span, I think he is too young. But the other is 12, and I have been able to have conversations about real things with her (she reads a lot of books, so do I, we talk about them). She listens to Good Charlotte, Simple Plan, Greenday etc. and it hurts me when I have to refrain from giving her a verbal bitch slap for her offenses (offenses like having different tastes than her 20 year old cousin!).
Anyway, should age and maturity even come into question when trying to determine if someone should be introduced to real music? I'm not thinking about giving her something crazy and inaccessable, just something like the Shins amd some old Beatles stuff, eventually moving along to Pavement, Pixies, Slint, Sebadoh, The Breeders etc.
Does anyone here have experience deliberately influencing the tastes of friends and family?
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I think you can start slipping some more pop like indie stuff in there. Just bear in mind she will have her own tastes, so don't expect her to like everything.
Is she hot?
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Down boy. Down!
*gets the hose*
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That was crude, but when I saw this thread title my first thought was "Alright, who's posting about jailbait in the music forum"
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it's doable at 12. i'd hold off on the slint unless she asks for it.
i'd be really careful about attempting the machiavellian music maneuver on adolescents; it backfired on me back in the mid 90s - i turned this girl onto punk music and then i moved to phoenix for a year, leaving her unsupervised. when i came back, she was a raging political vegan, spewing propagandhi's propaganda at me and very pissed that i wasn't also a vegan like her.
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That was crude, but when I saw this thread title my first thought was "Alright, who's posting about jailbait in the music forum"
I was thinking the same thing. MUSICAL JAILBAIT OMG
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Never force music on people. But you can give her a mix of stuff to see what she thinks. I think the beatles and the shins are definitely a good starting place. Also, there are a few songs that tend to change a lot of peoples' tastes. Like Such Great Heights (postal service), tiny vessels (death cab), and some stuff by the decemberists. I would suggest some of that.
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Is she hot?
Dude, she's 12. Of course she's fucking hot.
</paedophilia>
Anyway, if she's old enough to be have her own musical taste (admitedly a poor one, but at least she has opinions) then she's old enough for you to provide 'guidance'. See, when I was 12, I didn't listen to any music, which therefore made influencing me tricky.
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yeah, that was the same with me. I didn't listen to anything other than Weird Al until 8th grade or something.
The Postal Service is a good recommendation, thanks to whoever brought them up. I had all but forgotten about them, I haven't listened to them since 10/24/2004 (thanks iTunes).
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The Postal Service, Death Cab, Interpol, The Shins, Hot Hot Heat, and Pavement (depending on the album, of course) are pretty good places to start. I could probably recommend some of The Plan, but mabe you should wait on them.
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Go with The Residents, simply because they're the best band ever.
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I think it's entirely up to the individual tastes - the very first album I ever bought was the Manics' Holy Bible as kid - god knows why I picked it (or why I was even allowed it when everyone else was having Spice Girls and stuff) but I loved it. Just don't force anything on the girl either way.
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Good Charlotte eh?
hmmmmmmm
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[Obligatory HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA post]
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I already have my 12 year old sister listening to Nightwish, Skyclad, Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil, Inkubus Sukkubus, Iron Maiden and London After Midnight.
I forge the superior teenygoth!
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also, i've found that popular songs from good bands do wonders for getting them into unpopular songs from better bands. if she were a year or two older you might consider float on as a spring board, it was for my brother. but i think a 12-year-old may have nightmares from humble rodent. hot hot heat is harmless, but probably wont hold her attention. you could try some ska too. like madcaddies-->less than jake--->sublime voila, step by step course to good music
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I forge the superior teenygoth!
Instill within her a feeling of superiority and pretense so vile, Fenriz himself would seem as just another 'American Idol' reject!
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also, i've found that popular songs from good bands do wonders for getting them into unpopular songs from better bands. if she were a year or two older you might consider float on as a spring board, it was for my brother. but i think a 12-year-old may have nightmares from humble rodent. hot hot heat is harmless, but probably wont hold her attention. you could try some ska too. like madcaddies-->less than jake--->sublime voila, step by step course to good music
Hot Hot Heat won't hold her attention? Their songs are, like, a happy The Cure for people with ADD. XP
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I already have my 12 year old sister listening to Nightwish, Skyclad, Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil, Inkubus Sukkubus, Iron Maiden and London After Midnight.
I forge the superior teenygoth!
Coolest Sister Ever.
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Man, you people make Indie Kids sounds like Cultists. As in, they're not born, they're indoctrinated or maybe cloned.
And the idea of Khar's sister seening the mighty Fenriz as ans 'American Idol' reject is brilliant.
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i say hot hot heat wont hold her attention, and i could be wrong, but a lot of thier songs require a certain desire to listen, some of it is passive, but a lot of hot hot heat is active listening, at least the first time through. in my experience 12 year olds don' t listen to music critically, just as euphonous sounds. hot hot heat can tickle my cacophony fetish, and therefore i think it would take a special sort of 12 year old to like them.
of course if you could get them to listen to it more than once, then yes, they would be die hard heat heads.
or i could be wrong, who knows? try it
bandages would probably be a easy segway...i'm starting to think i hadn't thought out the hot hot heat comment
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Man, you people make Indie Kids sounds like Cultists. As in, they're not born, they're indoctrinated or maybe cloned.
That's so awesome that it deserves my sig place. GOODBYE CONSTANTINOPLE
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Instill within her a feeling of superiority and pretense so vile, Fenriz himself would seem as just another 'American Idol' reject!
By the time I'm done with her, she'll look down on me for not being a big enough Brenoritvrezorkre fan.
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The Unicorns are a pretty good thing to play for kids. Same with the Flaming Lips and the Polyphonic Spree.
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My younger brother (12) is really into video games and rpgs (thanks to guess who ;) ), so his musical taste is Final Fantasy scores and classical music ala Lord of the Rings.
I've been using the instrumental key to slip in some Tortoise, Do Make Say Think, and Sigur Ros. He's also a striving musician and plays in multiple bands at school and I teach him about music theory.
I'm breeding the ultimate hipster snob.
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Sweet.
This forum makes me think of what I was listening to in grade 7.....Fatboy Slim, Crystal Method, random 60's/70's rock, and of course local radio-pop. I wish someone had given ME a My Bloody Valentire or Pixies cd when I was 12. Damn, that would have rocked.
I dunno, your cousin appears to be into the "punk rawk". I suggest giving her some of the poppier punk things, Alkaline Trio, Dear You era Jawbreaker or Rocket From The Crypt. You also can't go wrong with Metric, Built To Spill or Sebadoh. I think if you delve to into the indie spectrum, you'll loose a 12-year-olds attention. You want something catchy.
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She listens to Good Charlotte, Simple Plan, Greenday etc.
Okay that was definitely me except get rid of Simple Plan and replace it with Sum 41 and then get rid of Good Charlotte and replace it with NoFX. Therefore I agree with Skibas, but I also add in Pixies, Interpol (that's what made me a convert to indie) and Death From Above 1979. Then slowly ease her towards both mellower stuff and harder-rockin' stuff. Perfect.
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Mnementh wrote:
That was crude, but when I saw this thread title my first thought was "Alright, who's posting about jailbait in the music forum
are we talking about musical jailbait?...hmmm JoJo...ermmm never mind but don't anyone say they didn't think of that too when they saw the thread title...i think it would be a better idea to start her on a few mix tapes...put on some stuff she likes and stuff you think she should like...so the better good charlotte and green day songs (was that a contradiction in terms?) and some arcade fire and cool stuff but make sure she'll like it too and want to hear more...love will tear us apart by joy division would be a must for the mix though
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How about before you shove a load of bands under her nose send her to the basics. Good call for a Pavement album, but also maybe show her some of the good old stuff. She might like The Who if she's into Good Charlotte, ease her onto the Led Zep when she's ready and then bring her into the indie scene.
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My brother made a big mistake getting me into music. Him and this kid Shane Yates (who got me into bad metal in 6th grade). I now completely own my brother at knowledgability of music. Poor bugger. I'd say wait a bit before you introduce her to stuff. THese things usually sort themselves out.
I'd say the Shins are the near best choice. If you want to slowly bridge her away from crappy pop-punk, a good band would be the Dandy Warhols. Just make sure she doesn't get into Dandy's "bohemian" mythos. You don't want a little meth-addicted little cousin listening to godless wihle she's shooting up cheap heroin...
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Pixies
They Might Be Giants
Black Flag
Dead Kennedys
Descendants
Archers of Loaf
The Wrens
Sonic Youth (Sister, Daydream Nation, Murrey Street, Sonic Nurse)
Ramones
Sex Pistols
The Kinks
Buddy Holly
Joy Division (Uknown Pleasures)
Stereolab (Dots and Loops)
The Cure (early Cure)
Devo
You might look at what she reads as pointers for stuff.
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DO NOT introduce her to Stereolab yet. I love 'em my own self, but that'll baffle the shit out of a 12 year old who listens to pop-punk. They Might Be Giants are a great choice. Archers Of Loaf? Questionable. Devo? I'd say go for it. But the stuff that's not so bizarre. She'll probably just assume they're nerdy. Which they are. But in a good way...
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Just always have it playing when you are around her.
Thats how I converted my 19 year old brother from gangster rape.
Of course he is the one who turned me onto indie when I was 12...then he became a gangster and I continued with the indie rock. So, I mean he may jsut be coming back to his roots, or I may have succsefully turned someone over to the otherside.
Anyways.
Just always have it playing when she is around, either she will hate it or start to like it.
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I know I know!!!!
How about, you let her make up her own mind on what music to like!?!!?
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I know I know!!!!
How about, you let her make up her own mind on what music to like!?!!?
good call.
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I know I know!!!!
How about, you let her make up her own mind on what music to like!?!!?
No.
I try every day to do my part to get people to stop feeding money to terrible musicians who only exist to exploit a demographic. If people stop listening to it, it will no longer exist. Do I think I (or even a large team of like minds) can destroy pop in all forms? No, there will always be shitty pop music. I do think that this speciific genre ("pop-punk") can be killed though. I introduce my cousin to "Band A", if she likes them, she will introduce her friends to "Band A", if they like it, they will introduce their friends to it, and so on. If enough people help, no one will have to listen to pop-punk ever again.
I think that very little choice is involved when a young adolescent listens to this shit, it is simply the lack of a better option. She has no reason to know about "They Might Be Giants" (great suggestion) or "The Pixies", that is why I want to introduce them to her. Then my job is done, and it is up to her to make the right choice.
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So what you are saying is, you are going to let her make her own choice?
What are you disagreeing with me about then!?
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YOU CANNOT KILL GOOD CHAROLETTE. THEY WILL NOT DIE.
Unless it's that one level in emogame.
Also, I don't think there's any reason to have to ease someone on to your fancy indie music. Either they like it or they don't, but you don't need to ease them into liking something.
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The thing with GC and the like is that they do have qualities about them that people will like, such as a catchy chorus or something. They don't have enough good stuff for me to warrant liking them, but that's because whatever I've heard them do, I've heard other people do better.
OK, so maybe 'qualities' is the wrong word, but there are things in there that people will like, it's just that those features that make GC listenable are more apparent in other, better bands. They're good as a bridging band, and may lead onto better things, but if she likes them, it's by no means a disaster.
I never thought I'd write post defending Good Charlotte. I must be more drunk than I thought.
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Death Cab usually has the verse/chorus/verse thing going on.
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By the time I'm done with her, she'll look down on me for not being a big enough Brenoritvrezorkre fan.
good. goood.
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well now, my brother was indoctrinating me into his listening habits by the time i was like... 8. but im weird, so eh, whatever you think.
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one problem that you might run into though is that she might be a follower who is listening to those bands because a cooler kid at her school is saying that they are cool.
i guess all you can do with anyone, be they young or not is give them some music that you like that seems similar to the genre that they are listening to at the moment, except not whores. if they like it, great! if not, try another band, then repeat until one of you gets sick of the process.
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the New Pornographers would be a good choice, though I think any teacher at any school would confiscate the disc based on the name....
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Deerhoof. That might even work on the 10 year old.
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My uncle (currently age 25) has been forcing his music on me (currently age 19) for pretty much my whole life. I've been listening to the Pixies (not by choice at the beginning) since I was in about 4th grade (I got a ride to and from school with him everyday, and all we'd listen to was the Pixies), but I HATED it. That is, until my friend Jessica played Where is my Mind? at her going away party when I was 12. I was blown away, bought an album, hated it, then decided to listen again and love them. He did this with Jane's Addiction and the Violent Femmes too. The positive to this is that I bought him a ticket to what was supposed to be the first Pixies show in 12 years last April in Winnipeg. So hopefully your cousin returns the love!
Anyway, even if she ends up not liking it at first, if she eventually hears it again, it'll sound familiar to her and has a better chance of being adored.
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basically, POUND IT INTO THEM OVER AND OVER.
On a completely unrelated note, every time I see this thread I read 'Neil Young is too Young?'
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She listens to Good Charlotte, Simple Plan, Greenday etc. and it hurts me when I have to refrain from giving her a verbal bitch slap for her offenses (offenses like having different tastes than her 20 year old cousin!).
Now... and I somewhat hate to say this... but sometimes that can be a good thing. They're like a musical gateway drug.
What you need to do is say "you like (XYZ)? Here, this is one of their influences." Have them listen to a band that the first band is a cheap ripoff of, and just move progressivly backwards.
I'll second Skiba on Alkaline Trio, I got a 14-year-old (my boyfriend's little sister. I don't hang out with 14 year olds on a regular basis.) to like them right away. Another one that worked on her was "You like The Killers? Then let's listen to The Faint."
Also, look at anything Zach Braff has been in's soundtrack. Scrubs and Garden State have incredibly accessible, yet listenable music.
This was never a problem with me, I was into the Clash before I could walk.
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I hate forcing anything on anyone but as skibas said, I wish like hell someone had shown me good music when I was young.
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It's not impossible for kids to find good music on their own. But then as I've noted before, fans of different music get into it in different ways. And most Indie types seems to get it from friends and parents rather than free self discovery.
Leave her too it, who says she has to like Indie? Thats why I made the comment about indoctrination. The suggestions of just playing stuff while she's around sound far better.
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Deerhoof. That might even work on the 10 year old.
you must be insane. their tiny brains would explode from trying to comprehend how wrong and awesome and hellish and divine deerhoof is. Panda Panda Panda would give her an annurism
I know I know!
how about you let her make up her own mind on what music to like
obviously you don't force her to listen to it if she doesn't want too. but almost everyone gets thier musical tastes from somewhere, friends, sibilings, whatever. she needs some influence, might as well be good music.
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Oh wow ! I have the exact same thing with my cousin. Thing is, she actually came to me asking me to recommend her music, so I said i'd make her a cd...
She likes Maroon 5...
Where can I go with this?
I heard her friends were trying to influence her with Snoop, so I better get in quick...
Also, she's 10...
I'm definitely thinking Shins...
I was also thinking the Killers because they're popular, but I've never actually liked them or listened to them much, but they could be a nice gateway... I duno... I need advice too...
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*see previous posts*
i'd be wary of the killers, they could be a useful middle ground, but you will be running the ragged edge of disaster, not knowing which way she'll fall. be sure to suppliment with mmmm pixies, prehaps decemberists? but they may fall short of entertaining at first. just have it on and soon she'll be singing it
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The Residents.
And no, I'm not going to stop suggesting until someone other than A Pack of Wolves checks them out. It's like Khar with his Skyclad.
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Yes but I was thinking that good charlotte and simple plan are all pop-punk which will lead to punk.
Whereas Maroon 5 is a little more.. upbeaty pop, I'm kinda cool with the world... And could lead to things like the Shins.
Fuck I have no idea actually... I just can't see my cousin being into punk.
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The Residents aren't punk. The Residents have their own genre: Fucking amazing.
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Skyclad.
SKYCLAD! The veil has lifted!
SKYCLAD! Now I see through!
SKYCLAD! Your mask of illusions!
SKYCLAD! To the fake that is you!
...sorry, did someone say something.
And as stated, I already have my sister listening to Skyclad ^_^. I await the day she realises what Polkageist! is actually about, and gives me a slapping.
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I still can't find a full cd by Skyclad because the cd stores here suck.
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Psh, I only have two. And not through lack of trying. I have a copy of 'The Answer Machine?' on permanent order from my local record store: apparently I'll get a copy when they press some more, or never, whichever comes sooner. It's easier to get hold of the Kevin Ridley albums. But they ain't really so good.
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I heard her friends were trying to influence her with Snoop, so I better get in quick...
there's nothing wrong with snoop.
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some snoop is mindless pleasure, some snoop is just mindless
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I've been having the same type of problem with my sister. She's 13 and I have no idea how to bridge the gap from Fall Out Boy and whatever is on the radio to something endlessly better. I made a mix of a whole bunch of ska bands, because that seems like the easiest to like out of my music, but I don't know if its even going to matter. She might just keep on going on listening to the radio and remain unphased by anything I give her.
I guess I there's no real way of knowing until I try.
*crosses fingers*
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I heard her friends were trying to influence her with Snoop, so I better get in quick...
there's nothing wrong with snoop.
Agreed. Although I reckon 'Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)' or 'Straight Outta Compton' would be better choices than 'Doggystyle'. Seriously, kids love that stuff. Alternatively, children should be given All Girl Summer Fun Band and Charlotte Hatherley (NOT Ash. Ash are fully shite, but Hatherley's solo stuff is girly pop perfection) albums in order to teach them about good pop.
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Well, I think I've worked on my sister. She has more Nightwish shit than me now, anyway.
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Can I kidnap your sister? I have a brother who... I have no idea what exactly he does.
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If you kidnap her, will she stop nicking my Ephel Duath shirt?
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Yes but I was thinking that good charlotte and simple plan are all pop-punk which will lead to punk.
Whereas Maroon 5 is a little more.. upbeaty pop, I'm kinda cool with the world... And could lead to things like the Shins.
Fuck I have no idea actually... I just can't see my cousin being into punk.
Try The Walkmen, The Shins, We Have The Facts-era Death Cab, and Change-era Dismemberment Plan as starters.
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DO NOT introduce her to Stereolab yet. I love 'em my own self, but that'll baffle the shit out of a 12 year old who listens to pop-punk.
Maybe, I was big into punk when I first heard them and like them, so I don't see how it could be the worst choice that could be made.
Then again she maybe looking for a something to challege her which is all smart kids want really. It does seem kind of condescending to say that she wouldn't get something just because she is twelve. (Granted the angstier stuff she won't get because she's not old enough to be angsty, but I wouldn't want to expose someone that young to that sort of thing anyway.)
Also some more suggetions...
the Breeders (Last Splash)
Superchunk (The production may turn her off)
Sunny Day Real Estate (Diary)
Jawbox
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she's twelve. she is not a peer. it is not condescending to think that she would have a limited appreciation of music.
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she's twelve. she is not a peer. it is not condescending to think that she would have a limited appreciation of music.
It is a bit. I liked the Velvet Underground when I was that age, and I've got a friend who was big on stuff like Boris and Southern Lord bands when he was a kid.
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Deerhoof. That might even work on the 10 year old.
you must be insane. their tiny brains would explode from trying to comprehend how wrong and awesome and hellish and divine deerhoof is. Panda Panda Panda would give her an annurism
What does not destroy her will make her stronger (assuming it doesn't destroy her). Just think of this as Darwin taking his course. Woah! Think of Darwin singing along to Deerhoof!
*pop*
Damn... I think I just broke my mind.
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she's twelve. she is not a peer. it is not condescending to think that she would have a limited appreciation of music.
It's true that due to her age she would not have the vast musical experience, but then again I know many people who are my same age and have no clue about music beyond what is playing on the radio. Limited appreciation of music is not limited to twelve year olds. I don't consider them peers. Not becasue of age, but because of knowledge level. I just think that people may be underselling what she would be willing to listen to.
Let's look at Mogwai, Explosions in the Sky, Don Caballero. They all make very beautiful music, but is there really an age where you go, "Oh, I get it now." Granted there are albums where their understanding is very specifically tied to life experiences, like Radiohead's "Ok Computer" is a soundtrack for cube life.
I'm surprised the Yeah yeah Yeahs haven't been brough up.
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i never said it was limited to age, or anything like that. i said age was a factor, simply because she doesn't have the experience, like you said. you proved my point.
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I think it was mentioned before, but "The Unicorns" might be a good band. Another possibility would be Ratatat. Since it does not have lyrics most anyone can "understand" them.
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i never said it was limited to age, or anything like that. i said age was a factor, simply because she doesn't have the experience, like you said. you proved my point.
That's what I got out of it.
No. No I didn't.
I'm looking at Appreciation and Understanding as two different things.
I said that I didn't think that she would understand "Ok Computer" since she has never worked in a cube farm. I didn't understand it until I worked in a cube farm. I appreciated the album before I understood it. The strangled desperation of the album is evident, but I never had a connection with it before I entered the cube world.
Moving off this subject...
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A cube farm being... an office with cubicles? This is just a guess. I don't think what you say is true, given that I don't think any of the members of Radiohead have ever worked in a 'cube farm', and I think they probably understand that album better than anyone.
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My sugestion is to introduce her to classic rock; stuff like the Beatles, the Clash, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead ect. Throw a couple of the more influencial indie, punk, and whatever else you think she should be introduced to in the mix. Then let her pick her musical taste from there.
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That's a really good idea. I'm not much a fan of those bands myself but they'd make a great start for moving on, with intelligence, to wherever she herself wanted to go with her musical taste.