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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Peter Linfield on 10 Jun 2005, 19:33
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I made this thread at a couple other forums, so if you just happen to go to those, and just happen to see this thread: don't take it personally that I've just copied and pasted it here. I really would like the feedback.
I'm going to get an mp3 player and I'm wondering what you guys think. I've pretty much ruled out the iPod because it's the most expensive. The Zen Micro is nice, but only holds up to 6 GB (so I'd have to get the non-Micro which is a lot more expensive). So I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the iriver H10 (http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/hd/h10_20gb_red.aspx). Anyone familiar with the irivers? Any reason I really shouldn't pick this up? It's one of the better quality brands, and one of the cheapest at $299.99.
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I had a Zen Xtra which was 40 gigs that was very good....
... until I broke it :(
Dropped it onto the floor and I guess the hard drive broke.
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I'm going with iPod.
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The price for that 20 gig iRiver is the same price for a 20 gig iPod. go with the Pod.
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I got a Zen Xtra with 60GB space. Price was 279€, so it was pretty cheap. Works fine. Don´t forget, you can´t have too much space for music in your pocket!
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In terms of actual performance and quality, Zen is #1, followed by the ipod then the iriver. With that in mind, choose by price.
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Just out of curiosity, according to who? Because I'm currently planning to get one of these things myself sooner or later, and if the Zen's better I'll go with it.
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According to me and a good few of those 'compare products' websites/magazines/tv shows I've seen.
The Zen has a better internal sound-system, a higher maximum volume, no known battery issues (unlike the ipod) and a full charge lasts longer, and it's more robust. The differences between the interfaces are a matter of personal taste, really. The only known issue with the Zen is that its headphone port can be damaged by rough handling, though they all come with a one year warranty and the problem is the type of thing that you could have fixed down at your local electronics store, once breaking the warranty seal isn't an issue.
Also, the Zen is a serious, solid mp3 playing device, rather than a grotesque hipster fashion accessory, if you care about that kind of thing.
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The forced chic is the main reason I wouldn't want to get an ipod. Also, all those rich kids at my school who's parents buy them and then they put like, 14 songs on it.
So once I get money I'll probably go with the Zen then.
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The Zen sounds fantastic.
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The sound quality on all these players is fantastic. But I am pretty sure that the Zen players are the only ones (apart from the Rio karma series) that support gapless playback. It might not be important to some people, but to me, hearing a gap between tracks that are supposed to flow smoothly together like on the albums Dark Side of the Moon or In the Aeroplane over the Sea annoys the shit out of me.
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The sound quality on all these players is fantastic. But I am pretty sure that the Zen players are the only ones (apart from the Rio karma series) that support gapless playback. It might not be important to some people, but to me, hearing a gap between tracks that are supposed to flow smoothly together like on the albums Dark Side of the Moon or In the Aeroplane over the Sea annoys the shit out of me.
whoa thats enough to convert me when i finally do get an mp3 player, i mean i was gunna do the hipster thing and just get an ipod but hey whatevers better
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My information for all this comes from sources about 6 months out of date. Whether anything has changed since then is anyone's guess. Do some research!
edit: http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/
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Actually, the Zen Xtra does not provide gapless playback. It´s like you play mp3s in winamp without having installed that plug-in you need.
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I don't see the need for an mp3 player, to be honest. I just save my music on my hardrive, that's good enough to me. I can understand taking it on a trip or something, but you could do the same with a CD book and not have to spend $100+ on it.
You know, except for the fact that you have to LUG AROUND A MASSIVE CD BOOKLET.
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That and if you're just walking around places, cd players and cases don't fit very well in pockets.
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Also, many mp3 players can fit well over a hundred CDs, and it's nowhere near as big a loss if it's stolen or lost.
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Yeah. Rather than having to track down all of the CD's you had, you can just buy another player and re-download off of your computer.
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Not to mention that in a worst-case scenario a hundred CD's could easily cost about £1000, whereas most mp3 players cost about £200-300
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All your complaining about lugging around CDs!! Sheesh you should have been there when you had to lug boxes of 7" 45RPM singles and the portable player was the size of the wheel on your car!
Actually - I can see a portable MP3 player, but the only reason for massive storage is so you don't have to choose what to load on it, you just put everything on there. If you're talking MP3s, 20GB is probably more than 24 hours of music so you're not going to listen to it all in a row (usually). So, the tradeoff is: spend some time loading the player each time you want a change, or put all your music on your player (instead of?) on your computer, and on your CDs (unless you downloaded the music).
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I'm hoping for at least 10 GB of memory, but everything seems to go from 5/6 GB straight to 20GB. I already have 4.1 GB on my PC, and that will be incresing shortly. In any given day my musical tastes change a lot, so I'd much rather have enough room for all my music than decide what I want before I leave. I've narrowed it down to these two...
iriver's H10 (http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/hd/h10_20gb_red.aspx) (20GB) is a total of $407.13 CAD at their official store.
Creative's Zen Touch (http://uk.europe.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274) (20GB) is a total of $408.70 CAD at their official store.
Prices are essential identitical, so it just depends on which is better. I'm not familiar with either product. Both have touch-navigation, but the iriver has a colour interface. Anyone have any opinions on these particular brands/products?
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The iriver has more flashy features, but it's really fragile, and has a lot less battery life. It also supports less audio formats. As before, depends on what you want, really. A hip accessory with lots of gadgets, or a decent mp3 player?
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All your complaining about lugging around CDs!! Sheesh you should have been there when you had to lug boxes of 7" 45RPM singles and the portable player was the size of the wheel on your car!
Actually - I can see a portable MP3 player, but the only reason for massive storage is so you don't have to choose what to load on it, you just put everything on there. If you're talking MP3s, 20GB is probably more than 24 hours of music so you're not going to listen to it all in a row (usually). So, the tradeoff is: spend some time loading the player each time you want a change, or put all your music on your player (instead of?) on your computer, and on your CDs (unless you downloaded the music).
The point of putting everything on there is so that you have a large selection.
"Hm, I feel like listening to some At the Drive-In, but I forgot that CD at home! What am I going to do?"
It's a lot easier to just have everything with you.
Also, you have loads of sources. At home, you have the CD's, and on you computer/player, you have the mp3s. It's more convenient.
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So I just checked out the Zen Xtra. In about 30 seconds of research I discovered:
"Huge storage lets you bring up to 16,000 WMA songs (80kbps) or MP3 songs (128kbps) everywhere you go"
Anyone who uses WMAs or 128kbps MP3s clearly doesn't actually like their music. If you like your music, you want to listen to it, not a garbled mess of sounds that vaguely resembles your music. Jesus.
"Simply open NOMAD Explorer (integrated into Microsoft® Windows® Explorer) and drag and drop data files into the data folder or music files into the music library"
Yeah, or just plug in your ipod.
"Personalize your player with 6 different Profile settings that let you customize screen savers, skins, idle timers and more!"
Are you fucking joking? Screensavers? It's an MP3 player with a 2inch screen. What's there to save? Jesus.
"Environmental Effects simulate audio environments such as 'Concert Hall' or 'Arena'"
WOW! THAT'S SUCH A USEFUL FEATURE. I REALLY LIKE THE TOTAL LACK OF STUPID GIMMICKS.
"Load a song a second with ultra fast USB2.0 port. Works with USB1.1 too"
Note, by "works with USB1.1" we actually mean "works with USB1.1 after 17 million years of transfering your songs across."
So, no.
iPod, baby!
Man, I want a 100GB ipod. I want one so bad.
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Anyone who uses WMAs or 128kbps MP3s clearly doesn't actually like their music. If you like your music, you want to listen to it, not a garbled mess of sounds that vaguely resembles your music. Jesus.
I think that was meant to be "16,000 songs at 128kbps [or some other number of songs at some other bitrate]"
"Simply open NOMAD Explorer (integrated into Microsoft® Windows® Explorer) and drag and drop data files into the data folder or music files into the music library"
Yeah, or just plug in your ipod.
But, with an iPod don't you have to use the special iPoddy format? Can you actually use an iPod as a removable harddrive (that is, just put any old file onto it)? You can with the iRiver, and if you use playable files, and put the in the Music subfolder, well, you can listen to them too.
I'd get the iRiver, if I were you, I have a 5gb H10, the 20gb ones don't come out over here until autumn, and, well, it's fine and dandy.
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Can you actually use an iPod as a removable harddrive (that is, just put any old file onto it)?
Pretty much, yeah. I saw people running Linux applications with their iPod on the teevee.
I like my 40 GB iPod. Don't need much more than that (although maybe better battery life).
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I have a Zen Micro. It does only hold a little bit, but I figure there's only 1000 or so songs I ever listen to regularly, so I don't really need a lot more space. Even with the lack of space I still find myself skipping a lot of the time. I got it in December, and the only problem I've had with it is probably because I left it in a hot car for a few hours. My girlfriend said she read a thing in the paper that compared them, and the Zen had 0 cons, and her iPod has been a headache ever since she got it. I guess if you really need to hold 2000 songs, the Zen won't work, but otherwise it's great.
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But, with an iPod don't you have to use the special iPoddy format? Can you actually use an iPod as a removable harddrive (that is, just put any old file onto it)? You can with the iRiver, and if you use playable files, and put the in the Music subfolder, well, you can listen to them too.
Ipod Supported Audio Formats: AAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless, Audible, MP3, WAV
Yes, you can use it as a HDD.
The whole point of getting an MP3 player is to carry my whole music collection with me. A 5GB IRiver is therefore not an option. Actually, no-one makes an MP3 player big enough for me, but at least some get close.
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Yeah, 5GB is a bit small for me, but as I said the 20GB iRivers aren't out here, and iPods just plain suck :)
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Zen > iriver.
You can get Zens over here, you shoulda got one of them.
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Well, they look a bit minging for a start, and the general consensus of the people I'd talked to was that iRiver were the shit, basically. But anyway, apart from the capacity, there's nowt wrong with it.
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And, what is actually the problem with a WMA?
Seriously, unless you're going to plug BeyerDynamics into your mp3 player device, there is fuck all you are going to hear between 128kpbs and 172kpbs (cd standard). Tbh, bitching about stuff like that is still yet more audiophiliac bollocks. Hell, I rip all my CD's at 96 kpbs. Guess what? They still sound fine. Also, if your computer doesn't have USB 2.0, then I fart in your general direction. All your other criticisms are, basically, drivel.
If you're buying an mp3 player for aesthetics then you are, essentially, a tool. The zen comes in a black leather carry-case anyway, so you don't even have to look at it.
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Fun fact: On my iRiver, I can hear MP3 distortion on songs recorded at 192kbps. CDs are not 172kbps, they are 689kbps. And as for the BeyerDynamics comment, iRiver H10s actually come with Sennheiser headphones, which are equally high-class. I used to rip CDs at 96kbps, and to be honest, they sound shit. Back when I was a damn fool about these things I used to burn mix CDs from MP3s, and they just sound absolutely lame compared to the original.
Oh, and I take aesthetics into consideration on most things I buy. It is by no means the only thing, but it is always a concern, and I think few people could honestly say they don't consider it.
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16-bit PCM coding at a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz was 172 kbps on an mp3 last time I looked, but ok. mp3 quality doesn't really map to cd's in any real way anyway.
I've no idea what this mp3 distortion you're talking about is. The slight hollowness on lower bit-rate recordings? Only thing I've really noticed in mp3 copy CD's made with 128+s is an unwillingness to play at a loud volume.
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I generally prefer my MP3s at 192.. 128 is okay, 96 I can start to hear distortion..
It's not that big of a deal since a lot of stuff I listen to (and Khar probably as well) is made to sound like shit on purpose.
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A funny anecdote..
When I went to go buy my Zen Xtra the salesman tried to talk me into buying an iPod instead because he claimed "the Zen Xtra doesn't sound as good when plugged up to big sound systems."
WTF man I'm going to listen to it in a car or walking to class with headphones not hook it up to a Bose surround sound system or something.
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Well, I haven't got particularly good hearing.
That probably contributes to it.
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16 bits per sample. 44,100 samples per second. 705600 bits per second, 689.025 kilobits per second. Of course that doesn't relate in a meaningful way to MP3 encoding, but I can't begin to imagine what is meant by saying 172kbps MP3 is 'cd standard'.
What I mean by MP3 distortion are little artifacts, if you will, at certain points in some songs, usually only on one channel, they are kind of like little bursts of white noise, they're quite hard to explain without you being able to hear them. You probably have to pay quite close attention to notice them, but I do pay close attention when listening to music. I assume they are a side effect of the MP3 encoding system just as JPEG artifacts are side-effects of how they are encoded.
This is entirely unrelated to the compression effect when playing MP3s, which does kind of manifest itself as a lack of 'loudness'. This is a more audiophiliac distinction, so I didn't make a point about it, but yes, it makes the whole thing sound unclear and hazy (in a fairly subtle, but definitely noticable, way). A non-audiophile would most likely notice the songs not sounding as 'loud' or as rockin' as they usually do.
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Well, I record stuff onto my computer at 16 bit PCM, stereo, 44.1 kHz, and it comes out as 172 kpbs wavs. I have no idea about those white noise things you're talking about. Given that almost everything I have is at 128 or lower, I can't believe I wouldn't have heard them whilst trying to pick lyrics out.
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Whatever program you're using must be doing some encoding of those PCM files. I've dropped AIFFs (what Apple calls a .wav) into iTunes and the bitrate was huge.
Really though, if sound quality is that big of a deal, what are people listening to mp3s? Use flac and/or ALE and be done with it...and get an appropriately huge player to store them. :)
-sam
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I convert my flac's to Wav and get upwards of about 1411 kbs. Course, that and SHN's are the only thing concerts are really traded in, so.
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I can't believe I wouldn't have heard them whilst trying to pick lyrics out.
It's maybe quite a subtle thing, I usually only notice it on headphones as it usually corresponds with a particular sound shifting across the stereo spectrum. You may not notice it because for example, if the distortion occurs on a hi-hat, the sound created by the distortion is very similar to the sound of the hi-hat, the only reason it's noticable is because it doesn't follow the same attack/decay pattern you'd expect from a hi-hat. And of course, listening in detail to the sound of the music is entirely different to listening in detail to lyrics.
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See, I normally only listen to the vocals or the guitars on standard rock/metal songs. Given that I am a vocalist/lyricist and I play the guitar, these are of course the things that most interest me.
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I blacked out until blindsuperhero's most recent post. :P
I'd hate for the instrument I actually play to sound like crap.
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Thanks for all the information and discussion. I've thought about it, and I think I'm going to go with the iriver H10 20GB model (http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/hd/h10_20gb_red.aspx). It has enough memory, good enough features for me, and it's damn sexy.
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Jesus fucking Christ! You use 96kbps MP3's? I'm seriosuly not an audiophile, I can't tell the difference between a VBR MP3 and a CD most of the time, but 128kbps / 192kbps is a really, really noticable difference. I don't have anything at 96kbps, but it can't be pretty. And for reference a full WAV is 1411 kbps, and lossless (eg. Flac) is around 800kbps. As a side note, my friend who is a full on audiophile (he won't listen to MP3's at all) tells my Metal suffers from compression worse than anything than Electronica. So, uh.
Now you know.
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And for reference a full WAV is 1411 kbps
Ah, of course, I forget that it's in stereo, so 705600 bits per second x2 = 1411200 bits per second, and they must be using 1000 bits for a kilobit (that might be standard, actually, it's probably only bytes that it's 1024)
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don't you have to have a special program to put songs onto an ipod? (itunes)
is it like that with all mp3 players? (big ones, not the pissy little ones like Shuffle)
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Zen basically loads as another drive on your pc, and you just drag and drop using the folder sidebar.
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that's pretty good. no attatched software. i've never heard of Zen though, maybe they're not in Aus.
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VBR rules. Constant bitrates are for lamers only. If you like music, you don´t hurt it!
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I have an iPod shuffle and like it for the most part. The sound is great, but iTunes is abiet silly software. Example, new computer=music has to be recompiled and shit. Computer comes down with the holla back virus and loses all of your music=find it all again because you can't rip it off the iPod.
My friend and cousin have Zens, and while it's a brilliant data storage system, the sound quality is lackluster. I've never met anyone with an iriver, so I can't comment on that.
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You can get off te ipod again. There's a bunch of shareware programs that can do it, or just use the console.
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I have an iPod shuffle and like it for the most part. The sound is great, but iTunes is abiet silly software. Example, new computer=music has to be recompiled and shit. Computer comes down with the holla back virus and loses all of your music=find it all again because you can't rip it off the iPod.
My friend and cousin have Zens, and while it's a brilliant data storage system, the sound quality is lackluster. I've never met anyone with an iriver, so I can't comment on that.
I've heard that in terms of sound quality Iriver is miles ahead of the game. I had an iriver product once, however, and was less than impressed (One of their MP3 CD players. While this doesn't attest to the quality of their MP3 players it was disenchanting.) The ipod is still the best all around player, if only for its accessibilty and ease of use. I can't really comment on the Zen. I'm not a fan of the design.
I personally went with an ipod because I'm a mac user and it's just easier. I don't really have a problem with itunes, with the exception of the fact that itunes doesn't allow disc-at-once burning, so any continuous mix cd's I have don't sound right unless I mash all the tracks into one giant MP3.
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Am I the only one who just wants to listen to the goddamn tunes?
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Yes. The rest of us are purely into music simply to bitch about bitrate rates.
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Yeah. All my songs are just unmodulating white noise, but they are LAME VBR white noise, dammit. I'm not having 128kbps static anywhere near my mp3 player.
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I personally went with an ipod because I'm a mac user
I'm so sorry...
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I personally went with an ipod because I'm a mac user
I'm so sorry...
Don't be. What's that? A virus? Never heard of it. :)
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Looking at this website http://www.monsternet.org/reviews/zen20gb/page7.php I'd say go with the iPod, it's cheaper and you get 20GB more storage.
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Oh yeah, forgot to ask.
What do people think of the Nomad? It's like 40 gigs for the price of the iPod mini, but I KNOW there's some mind-bending catch. :P
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Oh yeah, forgot to ask.
What do people think of the Nomad? It's like 40 gigs for the price of the iPod mini, but I KNOW there's some mind-bending catch. :P
The Nomad Zen Xtra 40 gig is what I had. No mind-bending catch. Great piece of equipment.
Just don't drop it like I did.
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there are ads (that diss ipods muahaha) for an 'm-robe'. anybody heard of it? any good?
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I was lucky enough to be given a 30gb iPod as a birthday present and have to say I love it, but be that as it may if I was recommending an mp3 player to someone, I wouldn't recommend it, there's nothing wrong with it per say, but you can get the same functionality elsewhere for less money. (that said it sure is pretty)
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I know it's not an MP3 player but the new HiMD minidiscs are awesome,
long play time can fit heaps on one disc and you can put pc data on em as well.
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I dont know about the Zens, but i have an iRiver H320 and i luffs it. It has a lot more functions then the iPod which prove very useful to me (i.e the recording function so i can record sound ideas for animation) and the radio is quite a nice little feature for listening to Radio 4 on zee go.
Gotta admit though, iPods are seriously sexy lookin'. My iRiver is somewhat of a small black brick.
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My friend (who happens to be an apple tech) recommends.............. the iriver, NOT the ipod. In his words 'Dude, it sucks........'
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That's got to be a great selling point, not even one of your techs will buy your stuff!
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Gotta admit though, iPods are seriously sexy lookin'. My iRiver is somewhat of a small black brick.
Yeah, the H320s are pretty damn ugly. The H10s are lovely, though
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I am buying a 20 GB Zen Touch as soon as I gather $250. Great price and I won't look like a trendy kid with an Ipod.
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I've had a 30 GB Creative Zen Xtra since about March of 2004, and it's been phenomenal. The only problem I ever had was with some weird glitch when the battery died that messed up my HD... but the Zen comes with built-in recovery software, so I just reformatted it and *poof* 10 minutes later, back up & running! (Although I did have to reload ALL of my music again)
30 GB Zen Xtra was running for around $230 back when I got mine. I dunno how much it is now, since I really haven't cared to check, but I got it from Best Buy so you can just check their webby for pricing.
Probably my favorite feature about my Zen is that it doubles as an external HD, so I can backup files and music. *glee* :)
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Wow, see, I've had no problem with the sound quality I've heard out of iPods. Maybe the iRivers are better (sure aren't tryin' to cash in on the name, because you know that wouldn't be the first sign of a quality product). I actually didn't like the sound quality from the Zens I've listened to (one in an audio store, one from a friend) - but the iPods, as I say, sound pretty ace to the non-bit-trained ear.
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I'm going to attempt to defend the iRiver here. Its early though so this might jsut sound like a pile of gobble-de-gook in the end.
I bought my iHP-140 about a 9 months ago, i was planning on getting a 40gb iPod, they didnt have any in stock, so they suggested I tried out the iRiver, if I didnt like it they would of traded it in for the iPod.
iRiver iHp-140 cost me £280
iPod 40gb (at the time) would of cost me £400.
The iRiver supports more than people think including ogg format. Which i do like, yet not many people use. You can record on to it in either mp3 or wav formats. It has upgradable firmware, the sound quality in my opinion is excelent. Also you can read txt document on it (yet i haven't worked out how or even why you'd want to on a 2 inch green screen)
Yet there is 2 down sides as people have mentioned, its extremely fragile, I have had it freeze on me 3 times since i've had it. Also it seem the reset button is very tempromental, so when it freezes i have to drain the batteries and recharge it again. Also the battery life is just obismal, your lucky to get 12 hrs constant play with it, they claim it has 20 hrs, yet i havent seen it yet.
Beyound those 2 little problems, I'd happily stick to iRiver products..
Thats my 1.1 pence
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My preference goes to the Zen Touch. The interface doesn't seem difficult at all to me, and even easier to use than the iPod's. The pricing for a 40GB Zen Touch is way less than the same size iPod and the sound quality is way better ...and my ear IS trained...iPods sound like they have some sort of weird Dolby filter over them. Which, granted, probably DOES sound "better" to people. It probably only makes a difference if you're a real audiophile or like the extra "realism" in vocalsor...something.
BTW ... the Dolby filter is to sound what putting gauze over a lens is to film and photography. It DOES take away the sound "blemishes" but it adds sort of a faded, fake-ish sound to it.
Re-reading that now...I think I'm just insane.
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Wow, see, I've had no problem with the sound quality I've heard out of iPods. Maybe the iRivers are better (sure aren't tryin' to cash in on the name, because you know that wouldn't be the first sign of a quality product). I actually didn't like the sound quality from the Zens I've listened to (one in an audio store, one from a friend) - but the iPods, as I say, sound pretty ace to the non-bit-trained ear.
My Zen has had no sound problems at all, although I would contribute any sound problems to the crappy in-box ear-buds that don't actually stay in your ears. I just went by Best Buy & picked up a set of those Street-Style headphones that wrap-around the backside of your head.
Way more stable for when I'm running, and way better sound quality (seriously, those sony headphones crank out amazing sound).
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My penis is bigger than all of yours. That's what we're talking about here right?
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Definitely. And mine's the biggest, as I said, 60GB!
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(http://www.i-tech.com.au/images/products/H10-red-angle.jpg)
Oh yeah.
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Pretty sexy.
I'm looking at the Nomad right now. It seems to be everything I'm looking for. It's also pretty sexy, even if it's kinda big.
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This is really funny, because I have been contemplating which mp3 player to get for my birthday, and after doing some research (cnet, pcmag, etc.) I might just go through ebay... but here's a list of reasons:
-zen micro has fm radio + voice recorder + uses playforsure
-ipods only use their own special file... you can't convert it, and it's weird to download songs... and everybody else has one. why be like the masses?
-the iriver h10 has color screen + fm radio +voice recorder
-the iriver h10 series has a really difficult interface, where you can't get to individual songs, but it uses playforsure
-you can't see songs on the iriver h10 without the backlight, and the color graphics are really basic... no photo capabilities
-if you want even more songs, there is a zen 20GB that's black and white, but only sold in singapore. (some guy is selling them in gbp, but his stor name is "szehong68" so you can just search for his name)
hope this helps!
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-the iriver h10 series has a really difficult interface, where you can't get to individual songs, but it uses playforsure
What do you mean? The songs are arranged as Artist -> Album, and to get to an individual song you can a) go to the album it's on (either through the artist, or in the 'albums' view) and scroll down to that song, b) go to the artist, select "all" and scroll to that song or c) select 'titles' and scroll to that song. It's quite simple, really.
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but compared to the ipod and zen series, you can't just go to an artist and play all their songs, you have to go to an album first, or you can't just start playing songs randomly. also the controls are on the sides, and you have to press a select button once you scroll to a point.
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you can't just go to an artist and play all their songs
Artist Name -> All -> Play
you can't just start playing songs randomly
(with shuffle mode on) Titles -> Play
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hey, i talked to this guy at j and r for about 5 seconds. guaranteed, he was trying to sell me an ipod, but everything else (www.pcmag.com and www.cnet.com) kept on claiming it was "difficult." have you actually tried using it?
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Yes. In fact, I'm using it right now.
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this thread's turned pretty bitchy.
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I have a 30 GB Zen Xtra and if it was a woman I would give it smooches.
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-ipods only use their own special file... you can't convert it, and it's weird to download songs... and everybody else has one. why be like the masses?
What is this stuff you say? iPods support a huge number of file types.
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Alright, so I'm gonna buy a Zen soon enough. However, there's a few little different models. The regular Zen, the Zen Touch, Jukebox Zen somethingorother, Zen USB 2.0 thing, or the Xtra. I'm leaning towards the Xtra at the moment, since on their site it's about 220 for 30 gigs, and 250 for 40, but I just want to know if there's any known problems with it.
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ipods only use their own special file... you can't convert it, and it's weird to download songs... and everybody else has one. why be like the masses?
You need to do better research, as your first two points are straight up lies, yo! Well, that's if I include "it's weird to download songs" as a point, as opposed to some sort of nonsensical extended typo.
Also, you people realise that not liking something just because it's popular is even more retarded than liking something just because it is? Even more. Think about that.
Yeah, so, I probobly wouldn't get an iPod, but my reasons for shopping elsewhere would be actually, you know, based on things that are true.