THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Patatat on 27 Jul 2005, 11:26
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Brings a fleet of retards that claim they have been fans forever, when they don't know the difference between one song from the other. I am getting fucking tired of this.
Like with the Arcade Fire, kids are claiming they liked them before they were popular. Yet they have no fucking clue, what Us Kids Know was or the difference between the two.
Anyone, else sick of these things happening?
Its been happening with The Decemberists, The Weakerthans, and Iron & Wine alot lately too.
I swear to god if this happens with M83 I am going to be pissed, I'll shank someone.
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WHO GIVES A SHIT?
So people in the mainstream like a band you like and are claiming they liked them before they were popular. Suddenly you can't dangle your indie cred around like the oversized testicles you wish you had and claim you're better than everyone else because you liked such and such band before they were popular without sounding like a trend whore. Big titty-fucking deal.
I'd rather have bands I like be popular than lame-ass shit like Coldplay. The only problem is that means good bands that I like won't be playing small venues as often. I mean, I'd rather pay $7 to see the Constantines at a 200 person venue than $50 to see them at an arena where you can barely see the stage. But besides that, why the fuck does it matter?
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SP2 does have a point. Plus it's bands like these that get people into more obscure bands, that helps those bands to sell maybe a few more records.
Also, may I ask how you started out? I assume you were some sort of indie-knowledge-God right away.
I for one can safely say that I totally ruined other people's indie cred by getting into alternative music via At the Drive-In's Relationship of Command. I bet tons of people liked them since Hell Paso, yeah, and then comes along shitty old me and suddenly realizes this band is cool. Well, dayumn.
My point is: You have to start at some point. And if these people are rabid fans, even better. They are supporting a band you like (or maybe liked, they probably sold out because the kids like them now).
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Agreed. It shouldn't matter how obscure something is for you to like it. Like something to like it. Who cares if the kid next door suddenly listens to them too?
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WHO GIVES A SHIT?
So people in the mainstream like a band you like and are claiming they liked them before they were popular. Suddenly you can't dangle your indie cred around like the oversized testicles you wish you had and claim you're better than everyone else because you liked such and such band before they were popular without sounding like a trend whore. Big titty-fucking deal.
I'm glad I don't have anything resembling indie cred, otherwise I might be offended. :)
Truthfully though, this does bother me. Allow me to elaborate. I have a brother. My brother is none to bright. Around 2 months ago, he started listening to Modest Mouse because all his friends were listening to Modest Mouse. Now, I hate Modest Mouse, and I'm sure somebody will kill me for saying that, but thats another story.
A few weeks ago, he went to a Modest Mouse concert with his girlfriend. the next day, when they came back, they kept going on and on about how long they've been listening to the band, and how none of the people at the concert could recognise any of their older songs but them. Now, this didnt really bother me as much as the fact that my brother and all of his friends will change their musical tastes at the drop of a hat in order to seem cool, which I believe is what the original complaint probably came from.
I have never lied about my taste in music. Except for that one time where I lied about a song I liked in order to preserve my masculinity. I wont lie and say I've been listening to Arcade Fire for years now. Truth be told, I hadn't even heard of them until VERY recently. This entire reply may seem a bit ramble-y, but I just cant form a coherant thought today what with my caffeine high.
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SP2 does have a point.
Of course I have a point. I always have a point. People may just not agree with me.
There are two things bad about the indie scene. Thing 1 is the excessive Pitchfork worship and parroting that I've bitched about elsewhere. Thing 2 is the excessive hipsterism that is pretty much inescapable. The whole indie scene is about being pretentious about your musical tastes. I mean, shit, I rant on mainstream bands for being terrible, but I also rant on esoteric bands for being just as shitty. Shit comes in all flavors, remember that. The only reason there are more good bands on independant labels than major labels is because....holy shit surprise....there are more bands on independant labels. Plus, what the fuck is a major label vs an independant label? Is Sub Pop an independant or a major? What about the label Trent Reznor runs to produce NIN? Is Sleater-Kinney indie while Nine Inch Nails is mainstream? I mean, shit, I'd argue that anything you can find in any Best Buy or Borders or Barnes & Noble across the country is probably not independent. It could be argued (and argued convincingly) that any album that is not self-produced by the band is a sellout.
There is good music out there and shitty music out there. That is the only distinguishing factor that should matter. There is good music on major labels. There is good music on independant labels. There is shitty music on major labels. There is shitty music on independant labels. what other people listen to should not make you dislike a band you like (even if it's a shitty band like Interpol*).
*Due to popular demand, I'm making the "Interpol sucks" thing a running gag. Get over it.
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I have never lied about my taste in music.
Blame the scene where it is imperitive to be the first one who heard of a band in order to maintain some degree of coolness. What you're seeing is mainstream posers who are copycatting hipster posers. The only difference between hipsters and mainstream posers is that hipsters have been lying about that sort of shit for a much longer time.
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I honestly think that if you have the brains to like a band because you like the band then that's all that matters. Not how long you've listened to them, just wether you let yourself make the decision on if they're shit or not.
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Either suck it up or start listening to music that hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of ever being popular.
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I don't know, man, the popularity of Sigur Ros and Interpol would suggest that approach is flawed.
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You could just go farther than too fare and listen to nothing but free-form 1950's post-classical shit.
Otherwise, I agree with sp2. The entire idea of scene cred is stupid and ridiculous and it's just a big ego-phallus boosting thing for upper-middle class white kids.
And I, as an upper-middle class white kid, would like to make it known that I have no scene cred whatsoever and I'm damn proud of it. Plus I kicked a trendy-boy scenester kid in the shins once and that felt good.
[/wang]
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WHO GIVES A SHIT?
So people in the mainstream like a band you like and are claiming they liked them before they were popular. Suddenly you can't dangle your indie cred around like the oversized testicles you wish you had and claim you're better than everyone else because you liked such and such band before they were popular without sounding like a trend whore. Big titty-fucking deal.
I'd rather have bands I like be popular than lame-ass shit like Coldplay. The only problem is that means good bands that I like won't be playing small venues as often. I mean, I'd rather pay $7 to see the Constantines at a 200 person venue than $50 to see them at an arena where you can barely see the stage. But besides that, why the fuck does it matter?
Hey, fuck dick, shit in a condom freeze it and then shuve it up your effin ass.
I am talking about them being complete and utter fucking dicks. It annoys me, and apparently thats not okay by your standards. I am sorry that I dislike when fucking morons talk about bands they don't know like they do. Ignorance on any subject annoys me, mostly on music. However, apparently in your own ignorance you have learned to cope with it.
I am not talking about, them trying to get into the "indie" scene. I could careless for any scene, I like to listen to music. This people aren't trying to be genuine fans they are liking it because they are told to and that pisses me off. I am sorry for thinking that people should actualy like music they claim to love.
By the way, I have no indie cred and have never claimed to have it. I don't sit in coffee shops, waiting for some guy in chick pants with a early november shirt on so I can jerk off my ego.
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Suddenly you can't dangle your indie cred around like the oversized testicles you wish you had and claim you're better than everyone else
First mental image: punching bags! I don't really care too much about selling out. Bands should just cover their asses (http://www.negativland.com/albini.html) when they do so.
Oh and my brother has just recently got into Modest Mouse due to hearing 'Float On' on the radio. He doesn't pretend to know their older parts of their discography though and it's a nice break from the radio station that plays crunk song after crunk song.
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Patatat, the only way to remove someone's ignorance is to teach them in what they don't know. If you just leave them ignorant and call them a dickhead, you're being a wanker too.
*EDIT* Also, I don't think those dickcheeses are really ignorant, they just want to be cool and unique, and like 95% of people, they fuck it up immensly. Cut 'em some slack, they're only human.
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or I can beat them with a stick.
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As long as it teaches 'em a lesson.
Even if that lesson is "Learn to respect your music more or I will beat you tenfold times harder than I did the last time until you get it pigfuck!".
= )
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I am talking about them being complete and utter fucking dicks. It annoys me, and apparently thats not okay by your standards. I am sorry that I dislike when fucking morons talk about bands they don't know like they do. Ignorance on any subject annoys me, mostly on music. However, apparently in your own ignorance you have learned to cope with it.
I don't want to hear idiot opinions on music, so I don't talk to idiots about music*. Holy shit goddamn, what a fucking revolutionary idea.
I'm more concerned about the ignorance that led us to preemptively invade a sovereign nation, or the ignorance that leads to various forms of discrimination, or the ignorance that allows police to assault law abiding citizens without repercussions or allowing said citizen to even defend themself. Compared to that shit, whether or not a shitty little hipster wannabe is pretending to be, like, oh man, Arcade Fire's very biggest fan just doesn't fucking bother me.
Anyways, really, anyone who likes Arcade Fire who hasn't lived in Montreal in the last 10 years is a fucking trend-whore anyways. Discuss.
*Except, apparently, here.
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Oh, you bleeding hearts always bring a smile to my face. When you bitch about something, especialy when you bitch about something falsely. However, discussing your thoughts on politics and how I spit on them are not for this thread.
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Since I'm not much of a fan of indie music at all-- (While others seem to orgasm from poorly recorded music, I'm just annoyed by it.) Though, some of it is good...
that's not my point...
er, I hate HATE it when I like something, and it becomes special to me, and then it gets popular, and it becomes someone's disposable razor. They use it, they enjoy it and its effects for a week, and soon afterward, it gets thrown out.
for example:
I like moby. I've liked moby for a long time. I heard a track from 'Play' and I was like DAYUMN. I went out and bought all of his albums, and then almost 6 months later, Play hits it HUGE, and everybody loves it. the ONE month later, Moby's apparently a sellout (probably...the man's pretty self-important) and overrated (I beg to differ.)
Anyway, the problem is that I like to think that If something connects to me emotionally, it's got to be pretty good and or at least a little mature. To see a bunch of people who could not possibly experience the music on the same level (as shown by their immediate disposal thereof), listening and loving an album that I love, and only appreciating THAT album when the entire discography's fantastic...THAT pisses me off. It feels like they're stealing it from me...My enjoyment of the album.
the moral of this story: stupid people should not listen to good music, because they ruin it for people who really appreciate it.
the moral you'll take away from this, since most of you are indie-kids: I like moby, Moby sucks, let's troll.
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You know what? I like it when a songwriter or band I love suddenly becomes popular - because it means that their music is reaching more people, which is going to encourage and probably enable them to create more music. If somebody hasn't heard of music that I like, I burn them a copy or encourage them to go out and buy it. The more the merrier.
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I'm more concerned about the ignorance that led us to preemptively invade a sovereign nation, or the ignorance that leads to various forms of discrimination, or the ignorance that allows police to assault law abiding citizens without repercussions or allowing said citizen to even defend themself. Compared to that shit, whether or not a shitty little hipster wannabe is pretending to be, like, oh man, Arcade Fire's very biggest fan just doesn't fucking bother me.
Quite. On the list of things to be pissed about, the fact that your favorite shitty band made it big is pretty low. I mean, I know that it's only cool to like music that nobody else has heard of (or thinks that it sucks), but chill the fuck out. There's poseurs in every subculture. There's wannabe punk rock kids who think that they're hardcore because they listen to an Anti-Flag CD when their mom's not home. Do I think they're stupid? Yes. Do I think that Anti-Flag are now a bunch of sellouts and poseurs and stop listening to their music? No, because that would mean you're a fucking moron.
Letting unpopularity dictate your tastes is just as stupid as letting popularity do the same.
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Oh, I just remembered my other point...
Indie...It's about artists who produce their music independently...
The funny thing is that many of them are independent because they haven't been noticed yet, and they may in fact want to be noticed very much.
Why would you route against the artist? Don't you love their music? what kind of asshole are you? Indie's like a depressing label for bands that want to make it but can't, and everytime you call yourself an indie kid, it's like you're mocking their efforts, and willing them to fail!
You Are LOSE, Indie!
edit: insert humourous indiana jones quote here.
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punks have a better scene and jazz is better music.
indie yuppie rock loses.
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Wow, i actually agree with sp2...except not about the Coldplay thing. Anywho, thats happened with several bands in the past and people making such a huge deal and being like "OMFG SELL-OUT!!!!" is just stupid. Stupid i tell you. As long as they dont change their views and still play awesome music, what does it matter?
I think Jeph said it best in the Sell out t-shirt thread.
I think the idea of "selling out" is pretty much worthless in all but the most extreme cases. If you're going to do creative work in a capitalist society, if you want to make a living you're going to have to sell out to some extent.
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I agree with SP2 with everything, especially the COldplay thing. Seriously, who cares if people who previously possibly listened to shit music decided to wise up and listen to something that (In your eyes) is good? Isn't that what everyone wants all along? Sure, they might not know as much as you, captain indie I've-been-listening-to-this-band-since-their-first-record, but nobody knows everything about an artists back catalog or their shows or anything right off the bat! shit, it took me a good month or so to figure out even the most basic stuff about the Residents (Which is quite a task, given the huge back catalog, game projects, and their damned "Theory of Obscurity" business!) But seriously. Chill out and go listen to your Pavement bootlegs or whatever you kids are talking about these days.
Course, I probably feel like this because their is no chance of my favorite artists becoming majorly popular. "No Commercial Potential", anyone?
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I honestly think that if you have the brains to like a band because you like the band then that's all that matters. Not how long you've listened to them, just wether you let yourself make the decision on if they're shit or not.
Exactly. And if they can appreciate someone's efforts in putting out a great album like The Arcade Fire's, all the power to them!
One thing that absolutely IRKS ME TO DEATH about this forum, mainly the music talk part, is how freaking elitist you guys are about your music.
I like Stars. I like the Constantines. I like groups like Broken Social Scene, and I support local bands in my home cities. Somehow this makes me "cool" or whatever in ppl's eyes. But GOD FORBID that I EVER listen to a Coldplay song and ACTUALLY ENJOY IT.
Because that, according to all that I've ever come across here, would pretty much send me straight to music hell.
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punks have a better scene and jazz is better music.
indie yuppie rock loses.
BWAHAHA!
Yes.
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Oh, you bleeding hearts always bring a smile to my face.
Bleeding heart my ass. I just think it's stupid that the most serious thing you have to get pissed about is someone liking the same music as you. Oh god forfuckingbid.
It feels like they're stealing it from me...My enjoyment of the album.
"I can't like it unless everyone else likes it for the same reason." Yeah, good reason. Also, the "they are ruining it for me so they shouldn't enjoy music I like" thing is so fucking lame.
Indie's like a depressing label for bands that want to make it but can't, and everytime you call yourself an indie kid, it's like you're mocking their efforts, and willing them to fail!
I'm going to ignore the obvious troll, but...
It's pretty possible to make it big even on an independant label. A major label may be a quick in, but you get screwed if you're not really savvy.
But GOD FORBID that I EVER listen to a Coldplay song and ACTUALLY ENJOY IT.
Because that, according to all that I've ever come across here, would pretty much send me straight to music hell.
I'm pretty sure Coldplay IS music hell.
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Wow, I actually agree with sp2 also. Except the Sigur Ros thing.
I don't really want to defend Coldplay, but they are... inoffensive.
I say, more power to bands that get popular. Like Modest Mouse. I wouldn't have heard of them if it weren't for all the buzz about GNFPWLBN, since I don't listen to the radio and so never heard "Float On." Since I am also 100% cred-free, I just generally find out about bands as they get popular and then work my way back through the generally less accessible stuff from whatever it was that caused them to break through.
And the more people who like Blueberry Boat, the better. And I formed that opinion before I read the fucking Pitchfork review, so just don't even start with me.
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It feels like they're stealing it from me...My enjoyment of the album.
"I can't like it unless everyone else likes it for the same reason." Yeah, good reason. Also, the "they are ruining it for me so they shouldn't enjoy music I like" thing is so fucking lame.
false! I can continue to like it, but be pissed off because other people like it for the wrong reasons.
True! If someone's ruining my fun, I generally want them to fuck off. Like you for example. fuck off.
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GOD FORBID that I EVER listen to a Coldplay song and ACTUALLY ENJOY IT.
If by "God" you mean "sp2," which is not a mistake I would recommend making.
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I can continue to like it, but be pissed off because other people like it for the wrong reasons.
Sure, you can, but don't expect any sympathy from us.
And by "sympathy" I mean "not mockery."
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fine by me.
did I mention that I'm so sexy that I'm probably just cute?
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"God" and "sp2" are interchangeable.
Also, Coldplay are not "inoffensive" by a long shot. I find their music totally and utterly infuriating.
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"God" and "sp2" are interchangeable.
Also, Coldplay are not "inoffensive" by a long shot. I find their music totally and utterly infuriating.
d'you suppose it has anything to do with childhood trauma or unresolved issues involving a tuba and thin englishmen and a car that moves realy slowly down a highway?
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No, but I do think it has everything to do with the fact they are completely devoid of talent but the singer still bagged Gwyneth Paltrow.
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I listen to music I like. If I don't like music, I won't listen to it. Even if this means I lose all my indie cred. If someone is shallow enough to respect or disrespect me based solely on whether I pretend to like some band or not, then I don't care much for their respect. Proof? I have never heard a track from the Arcade Fire, and if I did, then it mustn't have stood out much.
I will suggest music to people if I think they'll enjoy it. I'll burn or buy people copies of music they might be into purely because I like it when people are enjoying something. I'll listen to music people suggest to me (if I can get hold of it) because I'm open to new things. If someone isn't into something I like, I don't hold it against them or keep beating them with it until they do.
The only problem I can see coming from little known bands becoming popular is if they start attracting arseholes to shows. That's never a good thing.
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ive been an arcade fire fan for about 2 weeks lol
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And the more people who like Blueberry Boat, the better. And I formed that opinion before I read the fucking Pitchfork review, so just don't even start with me.
I read the pitchfork review and decided it sounded like an album I would like. Then I bought and listened to it and liked it. My appreciation of Blueberry Boat is somehow less authentic than yours.
sp2 miscredited me with some quote about indie being depreciating to the bands which are called such.
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When Pitchfork didn't find A.C. Newman's The Slow Wonder album nearly as awesome as I did I stopped reading the reviews. I still read other articles though.
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Either suck it up or start listening to music that hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of ever being popular.
breakcorrrrrrrre!!!
but yeah. it seems 'indie rock' (in the broadest sense) is the flavour of the moment. everyone around me seems to be into it all of a sudden: cardigans, floppy fringes, cons and so on. interesting to see how this pans out, since indie rock seems to have one of the scene-iest scenes around (if you get what i mean).
(somehow, i missed the indie rock boat. is it cool on your island?)
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I find it really annoying. That's fine if people don't care and are quite happy with morons with silly haircuts walking around in a Decemberist T-Shirt shouting things like
"Play Chimberly Sweep!"
At concerts because it's one of the few fast songs.
It just annoys me. Simple as that.
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And the more people who like Blueberry Boat, the better. And I formed that opinion before I read the fucking Pitchfork review, so just don't even start with me.
I read the pitchfork review and decided it sounded like an album I would like. Then I bought and listened to it and liked it. My appreciation of Blueberry Boat is somehow less authentic than yours.
No, no, no, don't get the wrong idea. I actually kind of like Pitchfork, but *ahem* Smugsy McOpinionated forbid that I should say so. ;)
Oh! Here He is now!
Also, Coldplay are not "inoffensive" by a long shot. I find their music totally and utterly infuriating.
It's your blood pressure, dude.
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Nah, I hate em too.
They just.... don't seem to be good at what they do. Why they're so popular is a mystery to me. It's just boring music, and I like The Smiths.
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MY LOVE IS BIGGER THEN YOUR LOVE. SING IT.
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There's currently a short bands/artists who are actively touring and getting press from anyone who I listen to regularly. They are Queens of the Stone Age, Dead Meadow, Wolfmother, Eagles of Death Metal, Mark Lanegan, and PJ Harvey.
I couldn't give the slightest bit of a fuck if someone I knew suddenly became a huge Wolfmother fan after their second album or whatever (so far all they've got out in circulation is a 4 song EP). I'd applaud them for finally catching on, and I'd do my best to introduce them to their earlier work. Same with any QOTSA fans I meet ... if all they've listened to are the last two albums, I'll give them a mix with "Born to Hula," "You Can't Quit Me Baby," and "Spiders and Vinegaroons" on it and hope they like those old songs too. I officially call bullshit on anyone who gets upset at Johnny-come-lately fans ... if you cared you'd try to help those less fortunate than you (meaning, those who got into the good stuff late) realize how prolific and amazing your favorite band really is, instead of feeling offended that they don't already know.
And all that said, last night I just put on Black Sabbath's first 3 albums one after the other and rocked out. I do the same with Kyuss, Screaming Trees, Beatles, Hendrix, etc. Music doesn't need to be current to be amazing, and at the risk of sounding pretentious, there's more good stuff in the past than there is in the present.
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That's because the past has a way bigger discography. Not to mention Frank Zappa, Johnny Cash, Chuck Schuldinger, John Lennon, Ace Forsberg and a load of other really cool dead people.
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I'M GONNA SAY RIGHT NOW: i didn't read the whole thread cause i don't have time right now.
i just think it's kinda funny that a lot of you are so anti-anti-mainstream. pretty refreshing if you actually believe it and aren't just saying it cause it seems the mature way to go.
i'll admit i have a stigma against popular bands, mostly cause i'm arrogant and feel like my peers and I have better taste than other people could possibly comprehend. but, if i like something, i'll listen to it regardless of popularity, it's just less likely that i'll like it if it's popular.
also, i think we should distinguish between indie-popular, and mainstream popular. (sorry if someone already said that) i just bought my first Sigur Ros CD yesterday cause i heard about them on here, and liked what i could listen to at Tower. on here, EVERYONE knows them, but when i mention them to almost anyone else, they have no clue.
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heretic's got a good point ... indie-popular has nothing to do with mainstream-popular. I never watched MTV, and I still don't, so aside from hearing buzz about Coldplay being the biggest band in the world I don't have much of an idea what's mainstream. However, I do know what's indie-popular. Go to the Your Band Sucks bit of Something Awful, and look at the "Indie's Sacred Cows" column, and you'll understand. That's what I see as "mainstream" because the only music magazine I read very much is Spin.
Since I listen to desert rock and the like, I feel like I'm indie among indie people because I know that Masters of Reality and Kyuss were two of the greatest bands ever and everyone else is still talking about The Smiths, Pavement, and (apparently) The Arcade Fire.
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But GOD FORBID that I EVER listen to a Coldplay song and ACTUALLY ENJOY IT.
Because that, according to all that I've ever come across here, would pretty much send me straight to music hell.
I'm pretty sure Coldplay IS music hell.
I haven't been to the forum for a long while, but I can immidiately see why the hell everyone despises... ummmm... certain members.
If you're pretty sure that Coldplay is hell GET AN OPINION AS TO WHY.
Don't just be jealous that Christ Martin snagged Gweneth Paltrow.
Oh, and PS? Just cause your head is stuck so far up your ass to even acknowledge others and their tastes, doesn't mean that the rest of the population has to follow you.
OMG WE HAVE MINDS WE CAN THINK!! THE WORLD IS ENDING!!
For some reason I'm so glad that I'm not an indie snob with any cred.
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I just think it's stupid that the most serious thing you have to get pissed about is someone liking the same music as you. Oh god forfuckingbid.
Let's just end the thread right here.
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I don't research on these sites like pitchfork to find what indie bands are "popular" or "selling out". I dont know what direction the indie scene is going, nor, frankly, do I care. What I do is, I find a band I like, and listen to them. That's it. I began hating what was being played on the radio, so I branched out and started reaching out to this music scene that was actually putting out quite a few good artists. And because if it, I found great bands, even though a few of those bands are what some people may consider more "indie-popular" bands, like pavement or iron and wine or the arcade fire.
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also, i really have no desire to listen to arcade fire. i don't like them. mainstreamers can have em
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I saw Arcade Fire play on Conan and fell in love with the song Laika, got the album and thought it was pretty boring and put it away, then like a week ago I put it back in and was surprised at how good it was.
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I haven't been to the forum for a long while, but I can immidiately see why the hell everyone despises... ummmm... certain members.
Me too. They lack a sense of humor.
If you're pretty sure that Coldplay is hell GET AN OPINION AS TO WHY.
Don't just be jealous that Christ Martin snagged Gweneth Paltrow.
Coldplay is one of the most banal and untalented bands out there (Interpol are another one of those bands). That would be fine if they wrote more than one song, but they don't. They write the same song over and over again, and they've filled what, 3, 4 albums full of this shit? Soundwise, they cultivate a sound that is so generic and soulless and intentionally inoffensive that it should be offensive to anyone who actually gives a shit about music. They basically were a response to the "oh man, early Radiohead was awesome until they got all experimental" whining that took place after Kid A was released, and they basically just rip off Creep over and over and over and over and over. The fact that they are one of the biggest bands out there right now is not a testament to their quality, but rather a testament to exactly how bland and tasteless they are. They are a brand-name like McDonald's...they release insipid and uninspiring music, but no one is disappointed when they listen to a Coldplay song because every song is the same and no one's expecting something with a lot of soul, they're just expecting another shitty piano ballad with new lyrics but pretty much the same music. Fuck, the Beatles at least tried new things and yes, somme fo their stuff sucked ass, but a lot of their experiments were very worthwhile. This is the case with many of the truly talented popular megabands...they at least try new things. Coldplay has a formula and every song fits the formula, and they don't try new things.
You can try new things and still play soft alternative piano ballads. You can change things up a bit. But every Coldplay is the same, and listening to a Coldplay album is like being locked in an elevator playing shitty elevator music for the duration of the album. That right there is music hell.
They really are the McDonald's of the music world....ubiquitous, but bland and ultimately bad for your health.
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Chris Martin gave me syphilis.
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For some reason I'm so glad that I'm not an indie snob with any cred.
Whether you are one or not, every indie snob says that.
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i think a degree of "indie snobbery" is justified, and possibly unavoidable.
as things become popular, they invariably become diluted/changed/distorted. this is largely unavoidable: to appeal to a broader fanbase, you'll probably have to strip back some of the stuff that a lot of people disagree with. eventually, you get rid of all the interesting stuff, and end up with coldplay. offensively inoffensive, or something.
it happens pretty much everywhere. you know, "i like their earlier stuff so much better", that sort of thing.
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also, i really have no desire to listen to arcade fire. i don't like them. mainstreamers can have em
It amuses me that people think that the Arcade Fire are mainstream. Really, most people have never heard of them.
THEY GOT A GOOD REVIEW ON PITCHFORK?! SELLOUTZ!!!*
I like Pitchfork, but I appreciate that they are pretentious, elitist asses. It is just a review site, and I take everything they say with a grain of salt. I can see how, if you don't agree with them a lot of the time, you could get annoyed by their elitist personas, but seriously just chill. I disagree with them a lot too but they've still switched me on to lots of good music.
*apologies to Mitch Clem
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It amuses me that people think that the Arcade Fire are mainstream. Really, most people have never heard of them.
They have videos on regular rotation on various music television channels, they sell out large mainstream music venues, they get rave reviews in mainstream music mags, I'd call that mainstream.
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That brings up another issue in the whole stupid mainstream/indie thing: a band may get saturation coverage in the U.S. (as sp2 suggests), but be almost unheard of in New Zealand (from where Gryff is posting). Take another example: Paul Kelly. Mainstream as mainstream can be here in Australia (by which I mean not that he's crap - he isn't - but that he's a household name), but of only specialist interest anywhere else.
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The Arcade Fire would only really get played on University Radio here, and the only time I've seen their music videos has been on specialist "alternative" programs on our music channel (of which there are very, very few).
I guess I don't really know what the situation is like in the states. What, are they being heavily played on MTV or something?
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For some reason I'm so glad that I'm not an indie snob with any cred.
Whether you are one or not, every indie snob says that.
haha. sadly, i'm about as uncool as i'm sure sp2 thinks i am.
i kinda like it though. no expectations to live up to! woo!!
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I'm not really a snob, but I admit to thinking people have shit taste if they have an abundace of really bad bands. But I mostly say "I think those bands are crap" not so much "Those bands suck"...
I don't know how you get cred, but that doesn't matter as long as you throw up the horns when you are rockin.
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exactly. it's the I THINK, or IN MY OPINION that make the world of a difference.
damn. i gotta get me some horns apparently...
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I guess I don't really know what the situation is like in the states. What, are they being heavily played on MTV or something?
I don't know about in the states but they are on much music.
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man there's seriously nothing I hate more than sellout threads.
Havent you been reading nothnig nice?
There's also nothing I hate more than threads about how no one else is good enough to find the music you found a year ago other than you. How worthless.
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Oh, you bleeding hearts always bring a smile to my face.
Bleeding heart my ass. I just think it's stupid that the most serious thing you have to get pissed about is someone liking the same music as you. Oh god forfuckingbid.
It feels like they're stealing it from me...My enjoyment of the album.
"I can't like it unless everyone else likes it for the same reason." Yeah, good reason. Also, the "they are ruining it for me so they shouldn't enjoy music I like" thing is so fucking lame.
Indie's like a depressing label for bands that want to make it but can't, and everytime you call yourself an indie kid, it's like you're mocking their efforts, and willing them to fail!
I'm going to ignore the obvious troll, but...
It's pretty possible to make it big even on an independant label. A major label may be a quick in, but you get screwed if you're not really savvy.
But GOD FORBID that I EVER listen to a Coldplay song and ACTUALLY ENJOY IT.
Because that, according to all that I've ever come across here, would pretty much send me straight to music hell.
I'm pretty sure Coldplay IS music hell.
I didn't say that you fucking ass fuck. Its not the thing I worry about the most, its just something I talk about on A GOD FORBID MUSIC FUCK FORUM!
I love how you are trying to take everything, I say and fucking twist it.
I never said a thing about fucking selling out, I could give two shits about it. I am talking about the fucktard fans that come with a band making it big, they bother me. Sorry, I am not too much of an elitist fuck to not have to deal with these kids.
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Ok, Patatat, RELAX...
I think youre overreacting a little bit.
I personally agree with sp2 on his first 2 statements, and some of his 3rd.
But heres the thing...
If YOU like a band, why the hell do you care what OTHER people think of it? Are you really that wrapped up in indie cred that you cant enjoy a band because its good, but now it has to be practically anonymoous too? I mean, hell you should be happy theyre getting more fans, as it means PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
Chill out, Its not the end of the world if a band picks up a fanbase of annoying newbs. As long as they keep up te good music, you shouldnt care.
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Just all listen to bands that will never attract hordes of annoying newbish listeners! I started one this morning, it's me on jugs, and my sister hitting a dustbin with a stick. We're totally avant.
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Ok, Patatat, RELAX...
I think youre overreacting a little bit.
I personally agree with sp2 on his first 2 statements, and some of his 3rd.
But heres the thing...
If YOU like a band, why the hell do you care what OTHER people think of it? Are you really that wrapped up in indie cred that you cant enjoy a band because its good, but now it has to be practically anonymoous too? I mean, hell you should be happy theyre getting more fans, as it means PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
Chill out, Its not the end of the world if a band picks up a fanbase of annoying newbs. As long as they keep up te good music, you shouldnt care.
Once again, you are misunderstanding me. I am not wrapped up in any form of indie cred, and I dont care about them having more fans. I am simply displaying my irratation of idiots saying they like something, when they are only doing it because tehy are told to. It just annoys me, it doesn't matter if its a band I like or its a band I hate. It bothers me either way.
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Just all listen to bands that will never attract hordes of annoying newbish listeners! I started one this morning, it's me on jugs, and my sister hitting a dustbin with a stick. We're totally avant.
But Khar, by telling us, we might enjoy it, and ruin your indie cred possibility! Oh noes!
@patatat: Im just saying what i saw. It seemed to me that you were ranting and raving because you were upset that bands were now all popular. As for the mindless listeners, WHO CARES? I mean yeah, they may be annoying, but ignore them and they'll go away, and the true fans will still be around, and then you wont have to yell and swear about it.
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Don't worry. We split up this afternoon. She went off to find herself in india, I descended into drugs and alchoholism, then blew my brains out with a shotgun.
I got better though.
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I am talking about the fucktard fans that come with a band making it big, they bother me. Sorry, I am not too much of an elitist fuck to not have to deal with these kids.
Get over it. There are fucktard fans who like bands that aren't well known. The uber-hipsters who think they're better than you because they saw a band before their breakthrough album are just as fucking annoying as the idiot mainstreamers who pretend to be those hipsters. Frankly, I'd rather deal with the mainstreamers...they shut the fuck up when you point out that they get their clothes at the Gap or Hot Topic.
And at least they fucking dance at a concert. I hate going to an awesome concert and everyone's just nodding their fucking heads.
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Wasn't so much a troll as a truthful joke...
that said, I admit that my opinions are often ridculously closed-minded and often ignorant, but I just don't flippin' care. I like music how I like it, and if I don't want other people listening to the music I like, then I'm just a more extreme version of everyone else.
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I would seriously love more people to listen to the same music as me. Really, really love it, so much. It completely sucks how little recognition some of my favourite bands have got. I'd totally love just if all the little gothlets were wearing Edge of Sanity shirts instead of Opeth. But that would be a paradox, as it would mean they'd have to have brains and taste.
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If everyone loved The Residents the world would be a very strange place. and totally awesome.
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I agree with Khar and would love for intelligent people, to genuinly enjoy the bands I like so I can talk music with them.
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I would seriously love more people to listen to the same music as me. Really, really love it, so much. It completely sucks how little recognition some of my favourite bands have got. I'd totally love just if all the little gothlets were wearing Edge of Sanity shirts instead of Opeth. But that would be a paradox, as it would mean they'd have to have brains and taste.
It's a bit of a paradox. I want them to understand that their music sucks, but because they like the sucky music, I don't want them to listen to mine too.
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Plus, what the fuck is a major label vs an independant label? Is Sub Pop an independant or a major label?
Please do your research before spouting obscenity filled ignorance (Not that I have a problem with obscenities, only when they're coupled with ignorance). A major record label is one which is an affiliate of the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America), while an Independent label is one which is, well, independent of the RIAA.
Thought I might clear that up for you.
Also, out of curiousitiy, why do you feel the need to be such an ass about hings?Is it really necessary to lash out at every person who has a opinion that's not yours? It takes a far more mature person to say "Hey, I disagree with you, and here's why:" than to say "FUCK YOU, YOU ARE WRONG YOUR DICK IS SMALL"
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I find that SP2, as much of an asshole as he can be, brings up some points that need to be brought up, as soon as we bury the hatchet on the Pitchfork is pretentious.
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Please do your research before spouting obscenity filled ignorance (Not that I have a problem with obscenities, only when they're coupled with ignorance). A major record label is one which is an affiliate of the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America), while an Independent label is one which is, well, independent of the RIAA.
You shouldn't call him ignorant and then spout off your opinion like it is fact.
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I just saw that post. Seriously, not everybody knows exactly what defines an independent label, asshole. I didn't even know exactly. And where the hell are you supposed to tell which labels are affiliated with the RIAA?
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I always thought an indie label was one not owned by the big four (Sony BMG Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group, EMI Group, Warner Music Group)?
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I think the big four bought out some little independent labels, so it's actually fucking hard to tell. Like, I think Interscope is a majoy label, but what the hell do I know?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interscope
"Interscope Records is a record label currently owned by the Universal Music Group."
Wikipedia also has pretty comprehensive lists of the corporate assets of most major media companies, the major sub-labels of the big four, and a list of independent record labels judged by the crieteria of not being owned by the big four.
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Big 4 = RIAA.
Every record label under the RIAA is owned by the big 4 record labels, I'm fairly sure.
Also, sorry for being an ass. I apologize.
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MUSIC for FUCKing
^ That is what Coldplay is.
Also, I heard an Arcade Fire song on the radio the other day, and I thought it was AWESOME. There was this whole mental double-take of, "Heey, I actually KNOW this song!" I sang along and pretended I knew how to drum.
(This is all I'm going to say on this topic, because I am OMGSOSCARED of pissing people off. I'm not being sarcastic. I like sing-alongs and twee pop.)
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I think the big four bought out some little independent labels
A lot of them, really. And even then, there are plenty of "indie" labels that still engage in business practices that I'd consider "sellout" quality.
I don't think it is right that a band have someone else outside the band itself exert any creative control over the band. This includes producers. Many indie labels still require that someone else produce the album. I don't care if you're fucking Steve Albini, producers are all fucking scumbags. If you're not creating sound, you're not a part of the band and shouldn't have any creative control.
This is why I question the validity of holding Sub Pop (or 4AD or whatever) up as some fucking godsend. They're not. Plenty of bands sell out on "indie" labels, and plenty of bands produce their own music and maintain creative control regardless of being on a major. It's all a matter of how much the band really gives a shit about their music and how much they're willing to fight for creative control.
And I'm abrasive, not an asshole. I'm not the one saying that mainstreamers shouldn't be allowed to like my favorite bands. THAT is an asshole move.
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Why are producers even necessary in this wonder age of digital technology?
I mean, lets face it, producing music is not hard. I can do a pretty good job in Audacity, I'm sure with studio equipment it shouldn't be beyond anyone who knows the first thing about music. Which one would hope you did, if you were in a band.
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I think perhaps it may well reach a point where somebody comes up and says 'hey... if you let me dick about with your songs, I can make you sell so many more albums!'.
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Well, the thing is, producers don't just focus on recording quality, they also often have a say in which songs make it onto an album, and how those songs are played on the album. Basically, it's their job to smooth out the rough edges to make the album as sales-friendly as possible. This is, in my opinion, wrong. I don't really see any viable reason to have a producer that outweighs the fact that someone who isn't contributing to the band's sound has a say about what goes on the album.
Holyshit, I'm hungover.
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i agree totally with that. i was in a band when i was younger. if some cunt twiddling dials tried to tell us what to put on our fucking record we wouldn't have been very happy.
also, i think that that's one of the nicest posts i've seen you make, dude. you should be hungover more often.
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Tell that to my liver. And my wallet. Both suffered last night. Plus, the bars last night were full of rejects who couldn't get tickets to the Alkaline Trio concert and then had to drink off the diappointment. There were some really hilarious Hot Topic goths (one who was trying to dance or something to some Thrill Kill Kult I tossed in the jukebox) and a lot of gothcore chicks as well, which made me laugh oh so hard.
It's just funny when there are all these kids that are trying really really really really really hard to be punk but my musical tastes are more punk than they'll ever be, and I don't even dress the part.
I guess that's one thing going for hipsters. If they dress like a hipster, they probably at least do care about the music. I think that's mainly because no self-respecting person would think that dressing like a hipster is cool.
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i am pretty sure that try-hards are present and amusing no matter where one lives. it's like a universal constant.
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I just think Hot Topic Goths are the funniest thing ever in the history of life. I mean, seriously, don't be that guy.
Anyways, everyone knows you dance to industrial with your whole body. You don't just spin your hands around a little bit. It's no fun until you break someone's nose with the back of your head.
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This includes producers. Many indie labels still require that someone else produce the album. I don't care if you're fucking Steve Albini, producers are all fucking scumbags. If you're not creating sound, you're not a part of the band and shouldn't have any creative control.
Though isn't this what Steve Albini does? He pretty much just does the tech for them, he considers himself a "recording engineer" instead of a produce as far as I'm aware. If the band fucks up, you'll hear it on the record. If the band is good, you'll also hear it.
You can rent Electrical Audio and produce yourself, Steve or someone else of the staff will just make sure you won't break the equipment.
Personally, I think a producer who makes the music sound like every other piece he has produced is useless (though I guess necessary for some bands to produce a decent album at all), but a good recording engineer can be damn helpful. If I could choose, I would record my album with analog only, it sounds better. And I know I couldn't handle all this tech from the start, so at least a recording engineer would be helpful.
That said, many bands I listen to simply produce themselves so it's not even a question there.
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Anyways, everyone knows you dance to industrial with your whole body. You don't just spin your hands around a little bit. It's no fun until you break someone's nose with the back of your head.
I suspect he/she was trying a mangled version of the light-bulb-screwy-floor-wipey-etc. goth dance. Which you should only ever really break out for This Corrosion unless you really know what you're doing.
That is also, interestingly, how you can tell if someone's really goth. You just point at them and go 'hey now, hey now now'. If they continue, then they can be in the goth club, and have their secret decoder ring.
What am I saying, I'm not even goth! I listen to more goth music than five teenygoths welded together though.
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Here's how you gothic dance: http://www.antigravitypress.com/gothic.htm
I think producers also tell you if what you have is decent or not. They have been around a while and will be able to tell you unbaised if a song is shit or not. It is definitely for more sales though. I would say a producer is a evil you will always get for having someone PAY to put YOUR music out there. I would just work to get him to do as little as possible.
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I think producers also tell you if what you have is decent or not. They have been around a while and will be able to tell you unbaised if a song is shit or not. It is definitely for more sales though. I would say a producer is a evil you will always get for having someone PAY to put YOUR music out there. I would just work to get him to do as little as possible.
Seriously, though, is that what you really want? Some fuckhole telling you if your music will or will not make a bunch of bank in today's music scene? If you write a song, and you like it, and you want it on your album, then why the fuck shouldn't it be on that album?
And a producer's opinion is never unbiased. It is always biased by what's big in the scene right now and what will sell records. If you do some softer poppy indie rock stuff and also some heavier highly discordant art rock, really, what do you think a producer's going to tell you to stick with on the album?
If you're going to be working with recording, then you should learn the recording equipment. It's as easy as that. You shouldn't hire some fucktwit to get all involved in your music. Know your equipment and how to use it properly (and how to abuse it properly if you're playing that sort of music) and do it all yourself. Keep someone who has no personal investment in your band besides his cut of the profits out of the picture.
There are labels out there that don't pressure you to have a producer. Go to one of them.
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Brings a fleet of retards that claim they have been fans forever, when they don't know the difference between one song from the other. I am getting fucking tired of this.
Like with the Arcade Fire, kids are claiming they liked them before they were popular. Yet they have no fucking clue, what Us Kids Know was or the difference between the two.
Anyone, else sick of these things happening?
Its been happening with The Decemberists, The Weakerthans, and Iron & Wine alot lately too.
I swear to god if this happens with M83 I am going to be pissed, I'll shank someone.
Why does it matter so much how long a person has listened to a band for? Is that all you care about? Hearing a band before other people? Does that make the music worse, or any less relevant now that more kids listen to it? The music is the same. Who cares if kids who listen to The Killers now listen to The Arcade Fire. Do you even own their two previous albums before The Funeral?
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It's because all these people are jumping on bands you really like, and it's because it's trendy. They don't have the same liking or affinity for the band that you do, and it irks you because you feel that your much liked band is not being appreciated properly.
At least that's how I see it. As I've said, not ever so likely to happen with most of my favourite bands.
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It's because all these people are jumping on bands you really like, and it's because it's trendy. They don't have the same liking or affinity for the band that you do, and it irks you because you feel that your much liked band is not being appreciated properly.
At least that's how I see it. As I've said, not ever so likely to happen with most of my favourite bands.
Why would I be upset that a bunch of morons are listening to a favourite band of mine? That means that the wonderful music is actually being heard by more than a few thousand people and maybe opening some kid's mind musically. And it also means the band is actually probably making a living now. If you can get over your pride, it's a win win situation.
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There are labels out there that don't pressure you to have a producer. Go to one of them.
You have a point about the unbiased thing. Of course they are biased. What I meant was that if they are good (throwing bad producers out as completely useless and un-defendable) they are not biased by being as close to the music as you are to tell if it's any good.
My main argument though is that these companies are spending their money on you and yoru music, of course they want to make money. So in order for you to get your music out, you have to make the sacrifice of maybe having a producer.
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Y'know what is awesome? One of my local radio stations now plays alot of music that I like. Which means a total of three awesome things:
(1) people I think deserve more money are now getting it.
(2) I can listen to kickass music in my car which does not have a CD player.
and last but not least!
(3) I can easily find out about new good bands.
...
So I'm listening to this band I've never heard before on the radio right now and I really like it. I don't know the bands name, nor the names of the members of the band and their biographies. But I'm still really enjoying this song! Isn't that crazy?!
maybe tomorrow I'll tell my friend about them so that we can both be excited about this band. and we might talk about them even though we haven't been fans since the lead singer was a fetus.
...is that really so wrong?
Enjoy the music you like. Enjoy the music other people like. Enjoy knowing about obscure bands. But stop trying to find more reasons that your better than everyone else. please.
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*waits for angry response from sp2*
This thread was bad news.
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stop trying to find more reasons that your better than everyone else. please.
Psssh, like I need any more.
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and we might talk about them even though we haven't been fans since the lead singer was a fetus.
For the Win!
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ahahah I totally agree, that fetus comment was the bestest.
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Y'know what is awesome? One of my local radio stations now plays alot of music that I like.
I found out from a rather embaressing source that a national radio station plays quite a bit of the music I like. Apparently, Triple J (the auzzie gov-funded station) plays a fair bit of Indie-type music. I was blown away by the idea of a radio station that didnt just play mainstream. And all these songs I thought my family had never heard of were on regular airwaves.
Moral of my story: My mum apparently has more Indie-Cred then me :(
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I still just don't get the whole thing with 'before they were popular' or whatever anyway. I mean, I've always been a mainstream kinda guy, I'll hear bands through the radio or music television, buy their album and then, if I like them enough, backtrack through their discography. I didn't like them before they were popular but I don't understand how that can put me in a position where my opinion is disregarded...
The Limp Bizkit thing was a perfect example... the earlier albums were way better than the recent ones, but I heard about them when they released Chocolate Starfish, same as most other people did. It pisses me off that the moment I say 'yeah, I only heard about them when "Rollin'" came out' then the hardcore peeps feel my opinion is irrelevant.
On the flipside... I love it when bands I've liked start recieving the recognition they deserve. It gives a whole world of new conversation... somebody says they like whatever band and, even though they've only just got into them when they got popular, it at least gives you the room to say 'X album is better, also you might like Y band'. Whether they liked them four years ago or not, they still like them now, and isn't that what matters?
Okay, so there probably isn't a point to that... just my opinion.
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I just saw that post. Seriously, not everybody knows exactly what defines an independent label, asshole. I didn't even know exactly. And where the hell are you supposed to tell which labels are affiliated with the RIAA?
www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp
The RIAA isn't some secret cult with handshakes and shit. They do tell you which labels are affiliated. Though the idea of labels secretly being members of the RIAA amuses me greatly. They'd sell a bunch of records to hipster kids and then announce 'Unlucky guys, we're cunts too! You just bought RIAA endorsed record. Bye Bye, indie cred'. That would rule. But no.
Anyway, I'll tell you why bands becoming popular pisses me off. It's because I'm incredibly lazy bastard, and I like being able to judge people based on their music taste. When a band is really small, you can assume that you'll probobly get on pretty well with any other fans you meet, because you're clearly into similer sorts of things. When a band gets a bigger fan base, you can't tell so much about people just from the fact they listen to the band. So you actually have to talk to them and shit. Hassle.
Lazy, that's all. Other than, it's all sweet.
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See, the thing is, before this, I couldn't care less which labels are a part of major labels or not. What the fuck does it matter to me? I don't know.
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If you're going to be working with recording, then you should learn the recording equipment. It's as easy as that. You shouldn't hire some fucktwit to get all involved in your music. Know your equipment and how to use it properly (and how to abuse it properly if you're playing that sort of music) and do it all yourself. Keep someone who has no personal investment in your band besides his cut of the profits out of the picture.
There are labels out there that don't pressure you to have a producer. Go to one of them.
So what you're saying is that George Martin was holding the Beatles back?
-sam
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Yeah, I don't know where all this stuff about producers came from. A good producer is like a good editor: he or she will colaborate with the artist, offering suggestions and objective opinions about where the music could be changed and how the recording could be improved to best bring out what the musicians are trying to communicate. Sometimes you need that outside voice who's a little more removed from the music. This whole cult of the artist thing that's built up over the last century is sometimes really annoying: producers, editors, whoever - they're not some evil entity trying to fundamentally alter the artist's work, often they're people who care passionately about the art and want to help make what it's trying to communicate as clear as possible.
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Cult of the artist thing that's built up over the last century?
How many producers were there more than a century ago?
How much recorded music was there?
Yes, producers have really become a lot less popular than they were in the 1800s.
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I compared producers to editors (for writing) on several occasions in my post. Immediately after the "cult of the artist" comment I wrote "producers, editors, whoever" - which I had hoped would make it fairly clear that at that particular moment I was talking about anybody in any field of art who has a roughly analogous role to a producer or editor - i.e., is not the artist but who seeks to help the artist.
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I do think it's fair to say that over the past 40-50 years there have been music producers whose fame has outstripped the artists they produce. Phil Spector immediately jumps to mind. And certainly over the past decade or so you've seen that increase, especially in hip hop where who produced a song will often tell you more about the song than the rapper performing the song, people like Dre, Timbaland, Neptunes, Puffy, yadda, yadda, yadda.
-sam
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*cough* Mike Patton *cough*
but I guess that's not fair, since Mike Patton rules.
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And let us not underestimate the impact of the esteemed Mr. George Zimmer.