THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: soak on 01 Oct 2005, 21:34
-
Everytime list of songs or songwriters are released they are always dominated by artists from the 60's and 70's as if this was the peak era for music. I personally think that alot of that stuff is great but I think that 60's nostalgia is the equivalent of chloroform when discussing music.
I think some of the greatest song writers of all all time have come well after this period.
I would nominate -
Robert Smith
Black Francis
-
+ Ben Eshbach
+ Mark Oliver Everett
+ Danny Elfman
+ Trevor Dunn, Mike Patton, Trey Spurrance, and the rest of the Bungle crew.
+ John Petrucci. (He wrote both Paradigm Shift and Acid Rain, so...)
+ Les Claypool
-
Dave Mustaine and Steve Harris
-
+ Danny Elfman
Hell yes
-
^ Great avatar.
+ Steve Ramsey, Martin Walkyier, Georgina Biddle (best Skyclad team)
+ Dan Swano (Most Edge of Sanity (with Dread Axellson et al), Most Nightingale (with Dag Swano), some Bloodbath, all Ribspreader, solo stuff)
+ Quorthon (Bathory. nuff said)
+ Bruce Dickinson (Best maiden tracks, plus solo stuff is great. Needs instrumentalists to work with of course)
+ Halford/Tipton/Downing (the ultimate Judas Priest songwriting team, and thus probably the ultimate metal songwriting team)
+Tony Wakeford (Crisis, Death in June, Sol Invictus, etc.)
+Ritchie Blackmore (Deep Purple, Blackmore's Night. The dude wrote Smoke on the Water ffs)
+Lisa Gerrard, Brandan Perry (Dead Can Dance)
+Jim Fogarty (Meads of Apshodel, Ewigkeit)
-
Dave Mustaine and Steve Harris
I second these and Petrucci.
I would say Claypool too, but Primus just bores me for some reason. I can appreciate his talent, but it just doesn't do it for me.
-
Mike Scott.
And more recently, John Darnielle, Stephin Merritt, and Darren Hanlon.
And also Billy Bragg.
-
^ Great avatar.
+ Bruce Dickinson (Best maiden tracks, plus solo stuff is great. Needs instrumentalists to work with of course)
+Ritchie Blackmore (Deep Purple, Blackmore's Night. The dude wrote Smoke on the Water ffs)
Dickinson's solo stuff is great. Tyranny of Souls is not as good as Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding, I think, but still a solid metal album.
If I recall correctly, Smith had a pretty good hand at songwriting as well. I know he wrote Two Minutes to Midnight, which is one of my alltime favorite Maiden songs.
And does Blackmore count as post-1980? If not, then I'll second him.
-
Dave Mustaine and Steve Harris
I second these and Petrucci.
I would say Claypool too, but Primus just bores me for some reason. I can appreciate his talent, but it just doesn't do it for me.
petrucci's work on liquid tension was freakin awesome.
-
2nd Robert Smith
Jeff Mangum
Conor Oberst
-
John Darnielle... Darren Hanlon.
Conor Oberst
I'm seconding the lot of 'em and adding Carl Newman. More for his solo stuff than for The New Pornographers.
[edit] Fuck you quote tags
-
And does Blackmore count as post-1980? If not, then I'll second him.
Well, Blackmore's still churning out pretty damn decent folk rock as Blackmore's Night. So maybe Ritchie Blackmore, Candice Night? I think it definitely counts if they're still making new stuff.
-
+Lisa Gerrard, Brandan Perry (Dead Can Dance)
Hell damn yes. They make me proud to have lived in Melbourne. Particularly Lisa Gerrard - while I appreciate Perry's skill, I can't connect with his stuff on the same level as I can with Lisa's.
I mean, I challenge anyone to watch the rubbish-dump scene in Baraka, with The Host of Seraphim playing in the background, and not be moved.
I'm going to piss Khar and sp2 right off and say Maynard James Keenan. Also, Adam Duritz - you may not like the way Counting Crows have gone recently (I don't), but August And Everything After is lyrically beautiful.
EDIT: Ooh! Ooh! How could I forget the Aussie contingent? Nick Cave, Paul Kelly, and Daniel Johns. 'nuff said.
-
Paul Simon (yes, he wrote after 1980)
Seal
Oberst
Sting
Daron Malakian
Danny Elfman (I think he's already been mentioned...)
-
Second (or third, or whatever) John Darnielle and Jeff Mangum. Also, Andrew Bird and Sufjan Stevens.
-
Daniel Johns.
Aww c'mon!! Mr. Forced Rhyme? Don't make me quote the opening verse of "Freak" again!
EDIT: Also, Will Oldham.
-
Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree)
Mikael Åkerfeldt (Opeth)
Omar Rodrigez Lopez (The Mars Volta)
EDIT: Also Thomas Dybdahl.
-
Aww c'mon!! Mr. Forced Rhyme? Don't make me quote the opening verse of "Freak" again!
Alright, we'll forget Freak Show and the less precocious parts of Frogstomp. Still, Diorama is a solid album, as is Neon Ballroom, and it's better than 95% of the other stuff I've heard in the last ten years.
-
Hmm . . . I'll let it go, but only because I haven't heard anything from Diorama or Neon Ballroom. And because you have an e. e. cummings quote in your sig.
-
Deal. I was starting to wonder if anyone'd mention that.
-
I just want to know why Elliott Smith hasn't been mentioned.
-
Is it just me, or is this thread just "hay guys let's name our favorite artists' names!"
This is the stupidest thread ever.
-
*readies 100% invincible armour with no weaknesses not even to timetravel or the end of the universe zomg*
Chris Martin
:p
-
Sarcasm for the win!
-
Colin Meloy!!!
-
*readies 100% invincible armour with no weaknesses not even to timetravel or the end of the universe zomg*
Chris Martin
:p
You beat me to it.
-
I love how you were complaining about how sp2 always manages to bring up Coldplay in a music conversation....
DOOOOOOOOOOOOING
-
Yeah, seriously.
Switchblade = supreme hypocrite!
-
I love how you can always twist our words to make us sound like we've said stupid things that, really, we never said. That has to be a talent.
-
Alright, we get it. You have bad taste in music and think Coldplay is the best thing since sliced bread because MTV tells you to think that. We respect your right to hate good music. Please respect our right to hate bad music. KTHANXBYE
-
OMFG I HATE J00 HAUALGBHAULGHBG
Never mind. I never watch MTV, by the way.
SO ABOUT THOSE POST-1980s SONGWRITERS, HMM?
-
As far as actual good songwriting goes, I'd say Soundgarden wrote some damned good tunes. I mean, certainly they wrote a lot of trash, but they also wrote a lot of really well-put-together songs.
I'd say the Weakerthans do the same thing, too. They have some bad songs, but they're damned good lyrically and they write good hooks and have good song structure as well.
Arguments could be made convincingly for Pearl Jam, although I'll leave those arguments for someone else to make.
-
And also Billy Bragg.
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
and Ryan Adams, and Mark Oliver Everett.
-
Your less-than-threes are eating my screen!
-
How do we define songwriters? Caribou writes great songs. Buck 65 writes great songs. But would either of them qualify as "songwriters" in this thread?
It seems alot of the people being sugested here are white guys with guitars. Is that the definition of a songwriter? I think the term itself is redundant for anyone who makes music.
-
Songwriters are, I would think, the guys who have their names underneath the songs.
In the space for songwriting credits.
-
Sarcasm for the win!
Yep.
For god's sake, could somebody trim those <3s down? Every time you do that, the baby Shug-Niggurath cries.
-
How do we define songwriters? Caribou writes great songs. Buck 65 writes great songs. But would either of them qualify as "songwriters" in this thread?
It seems alot of the people being sugested here are white guys with guitars. Is that the definition of a songwriter? I think the term itself is redundant for anyone who makes music.
I don't know about anyone else, but my main criteria is excellent lyric-writing. I guess a good way with a tune doesn't hurt either.
-
As far as actual good songwriting goes, I'd say Soundgarden wrote some damned good tunes. I mean, certainly they wrote a lot of trash, but they also wrote a lot of really well-put-together songs.
I'd say the Weakerthans do the same thing, too. They have some bad songs, but they're damned good lyrically and they write good hooks and have good song structure as well.
Arguments could be made convincingly for Pearl Jam, although I'll leave those arguments for someone else to make.
Who are you and what have you done with the real sp2?
ALSO WTF IS STRETCHING THE PAGE OMG?
Mabe it was the recommendation of Colin Meloy. Because he sucks.
-
I don't know about anyone else, but my main criteria is excellent lyric-writing. I guess a good way with a tune doesn't hurt either.
The ability to sing is optional.
-
I love how you were complaining about how sp2 always manages to bring up Coldplay in a music conversation...
Yes, but I was being sarcastic. I LIKE Coldplay and all, but I'd never rate their songs being the most interesting or well-written*. That's a point that, if I didn't concede a long time ago, I should have.
*with a few notbale exceptions.
-
Who are you and what have you done with the real sp2
What I listen to and what I consider good songwriting is not necessarily the same thing. I listen to stuff I consider good music. That doesn't necessarily mean good songs. Good songwriting means the music should be poppier and have a more traditional structure, and be very accessible. The lyrics should also be well-written and clever.
Most of the music I like doesn't necessarily have brilliant lyrics. Either they're really blunt and straightforward lyrics (like Dead Kennedys, which are still an awesome band) or very esoteric lyrics (like At the Drive-In, which are also an awesome band).
I'd say, really, The Weakerthans and Les Savy Fav are two of the best bands lyrically in the last 10 years. I wouldn't call Les Savy Fav great songwriters because their music doesn't have a lot in the way of good hooks...it's music geek music rather than song music. I'd also say that good songwriting should be thematically accessible to everyone, even if you disagree with it. Most of the really in your face blunt punk music that I like isn't accessible to anyone but a radical leftist. Most of the post-hardcore and post-punk stuff I listen to is not accessible to anyone but a music geek or a radical leftist. That's how it is.
As for Soundgarden, there are some real gems on each of their albums (not just the singles). One should not be ashamed of liking Soundgarden. They were by far the best band to come out of the "grunge" thing. As for Pearl Jam, I don't like them. But they still wrote a lot of really good tunes that could be considered on par with a lot of the great songwriting from the 60s and 70s.
Those were bands that came to mind off the top of my head. There are plenty of other bands that have great songwriting. Jawbreaker's earlier stuff is very well-written, although their lyrics are a little lacking. Black Rebel Motorcycle Club are good at putting together a song, although they lack a little lyrically. The Black Keys write good songs, although a lot of their lyrics are a bit cliché.
But I wouldn't claim in a million years that being able to write a good song and being able to write good music are the same skill. In fact, they're vastly different.
-
Long sp2 rebuttals don't have quite the same "zip" when they are stretched out in long lines.
-
Seriously. Sean, edit your damned post.
-
What I listen to and what I consider good songwriting is not necessarily the same thing.
That was my intention for this thread.
There is plenty of great music out there that if it were stripped of its music would sound extremely childish.
-
But why not? Isn't good songwriting the ability to write songs that will be catchy and move people and that will stick with a person?
-
music is more than the combination of lyrics and music.
I just think that there are some great artists who are extremely adept at both and it is usually the lyrics that enable them to stand out amongst the rest.
-
hands down Robert Smith
-
Seriously. Sean, edit your damned post.
what scares me is that he kept tapping two keys for that long...
-
I'll go with Norway for $2000 Alex:
Erlend Øye and Erik Glambek Bøe
Sondre Lerche
Not always the greatest lyrics (I'm pretty sure that Lerche rhymes "you" with "you" in at least one song), but I don't necessarily want to feel like I'm being condescended to by some guy with an acoustic guitar. Besides the structure, the tunes and the overall quality of the music is quite catchy.
I'm reminded, every time I see his name, of the 29 Thoughts on the Apparent Sexiness of Conor Oberst, by Adam Boyle:
29 Thoughts about the apparent sexiness of Conor Oberst
(taken from nerve.com -- http://www.nerve.com/screeningroom/music/conoroberst/
"1. You can't walk five feet anymore without someone going nuts about Conor Oberst. Just today the girl at the bagel shop called him "the next Bob Dylan," and my mailman said he was "blown away" by his "trenchant, gut-wrenching lyrics that make him seem like a precocious mix of Joan Baez and Leonard Cohen."
2. Okay, I'm making up the thing about the mailman, but still. People won't shut up about the guy.
3. I have to admit it: I'm having a tough time getting on the bandwagon. I think he's pretty inspiring as a story, genuinely decent as a human being, and he's got a neat haircut, but he strikes me as a bit of a guitar-pounder who never met a lyric he couldn't overwrite, and you can find a lot of those at an open mike near you. Something tells me without the neat haircut, he'd just be Conor, the guy serving me a Mochaccino in Omaha.
4. I feel evil saying these things. I mean, pop music is truly terrible. We should be bending over backwards to thank guys like Conor Oberst for existing. Who would we rather have, Ashlee Simpson?
5. I mean, really, it's probably just me. I can't handle young genius of any kind. I'm a huge jerk. Really.
6. Still, if some guy showed up at your house party and started playing heart-tugging songs like Conor Oberst does, you'd be like, "Who is this clown?"
7. Which is to say: musical genius is all about the context. Put Conor Oberst on Austin City Limits and it's like, "Wow, guy's a genius." Put him on the subway, and it's like, "Shut up, dude! I'm trying to read Harry Potter."
8. I'm probably just envious. Conor Oberst has done more by the age of twenty-four than I'd do with five lifetimes. When I was twenty-four I spent most of my time trying to watch porn on scrambled cable channels.
9. When Chopin was around, was there some idiot like me writing stuff like, "I don't get all the fuss!"
10. One thing that's cool about being Conor Oberst is that the girls who like you aren't those cheesy bubbleheads who are into Sugar Ray and Maroon 5. The girls who are into Conor Oberst are more like those long-legged, purple-haired girls you see on the train who are so comically pretty and stylish you can't believe they actually exist, and by the time you get to your stop you've actually courted, dated and married them in your head.
11. The reason some guys don't like Conor Oberst as much as girls is because every guy has had a girl leave him for a guy like Conor Oberst - that is, a smart guy who pays attention to stuff.
12. But it's not like guys don't have their Conor Obersts, either. Guys are the worst - we'll fall in love with any singer who's smart and cute. Who's that harp girl? Joanna Newsom? Geez Louise. I love her, and I have vacuum cleaners that sound better than that.
13. My personal Conor Oberst is Aimee Mann. Totally embarrassing, I know. Fifty years from now people will be like, "What the fuck is this?"
14. I was going to see Aimee Mann in concert not too long ago, but I chickened out. I didn't want to be surrounded by my pasty kind, standing there in our ripped jeans and Howard Dean T-shirts.
15. My new Conor Oberst is that dancehall girl M.I.A. She's amazing. In my fantasy life we've just gotten a new apartment and some kick-ass paintings.
16. If you're Conor Oberst, it's not like Natalie Portman is some kind of unattainable fantasy. It's actually real. One night she's at your show, grooving out. Then the next morning she's smoking a cigarette in your kitchen while you're calling your grandma to get her buttermilk pancake recipe.
17. Or if not Natalie Portman, at least someone like Maggie Gyllenhaal.
18. Cool rock kids like to be snobby about celebrities, but when you think about it, everyone took it pretty easy on Jack White for going out with Renee Zellweger. That's like the 2005 equivalent of William Burroughs dating Charo.
19. I've kind of had it with cool soundtracks like The O.C., Life Aquatic and Garden State. It's like, "Okay, okay, the director has eclectic taste! would it kill you to pick a Bob Seger song?"
20. I told my friend I didn't like Garden State, and it was as if I told him his mom was fat. People are bonkers about that movie.
21. It took me a long time to warm up to the White Stripes, too, so maybe I'm going to have my Conor Moment later on.
22. Besides, it takes me a while even to listen to stuff. I finally got around to buying that Kanye West album. I haven't listened to a lick of Interpol, The Rapture or Franz Ferdinand. I did see a Franz Ferdinand T-shirt in Urban Outfitters, though, which really killed them for me.
23. It's exhausting to keep up with new music. Sometimes I think I should throw out everything except Stevie Wonder's Talking Book, and I'd be perfectly happy.
24. I wonder if some people pissed on Talking Book when it came out. If so, I would like to travel back in time and fight them.
25. For the longest time I thought Conor Oberst's name was Bright Eyes. I still don't get the distinction, even though it's been explained to me forty-five times.
26. And I actually wrote a whole draft of this piece calling him "Conor Oberest." What a duncecap.
27. I didn't go see the Pixies. Life somehow moved on for me.
28. No one did it better than Fugazi. Does saying that really date me, in an awful, pathetic way?
29. Do you think Conor Oberst really can make buttermilk pancakes?
-
I don't necessarily want to feel like I'm being condescended to by some guy with an acoustic guitar.
See, for me the condescending songwriters are those who seem to assume that I can't handle anything more sophisticated than "I love you baby, oh yeah." If somebody makes the effort to write intelligent lyrics or an interesting melody it makes me very happy, because it indicates to me that the songwriter trust the listener to be intelligent enough to understand something that's a little different from the norm.
-
Has anyone mentioned Sam Beam yet?
Edit: Not 'til now.
-
i'm not normally one to care about lyrics or singing. i'm more of an instrumental kind of guy. that said, when lyrics DO hit me, it means something.
i have a soft spot for Stephen Jenkins' (Third Eye Blind) writing, Ben Gibbard's work on The Postal Service's "Give Up" is a guilty pleasure, and Richard Patrick of Filter could always write a mean tune.
others, like Opeth's Mikael Ankerfeldt and John Petrucci have already been brought up, which is good. ^_^
-
I might switch that around and say Third Eye Blind is the guilty pleasure, at least personally. But I have a great deal of nostalgia for most popular stuff released around '98.
-
Maynard James Keenan.
and Daniel Johns
oooh what he said ....especially maynard *sighs* i love him
im also seconding petrucci and adding the tea party (its a joint effort fromt he whole band), tori amos (such beautiful sweeping lyrics) and even lyric wise you have to admit that marilyn manson comes up with some pretty cool lyrics, themes and ideas (i so know someone is going to disagree with me ont his one but oh well)
-
well, two that stick out in my head right now are John K. Sampson (The Weakerthans) and Blake Schwarzenbach (Jawbreaker/Jets to Brazil). i just remembered another: Brandon Tussey (A Radio With Guts).
and, hell, I'll throw The Aquabats on here, too, just because the lyrics on a lot of their recent stuff are so clever (and some of them have a Mark Mothersbaugh-ish edge to them, too!).
-
I think this thread is stupid but I was kinda worried that it'd get to a 3rd page without mentions to people like Thom Yorke, Mark Knoffler & Ian Curtis (well technically Closer was released in 80 so it counts)
-
well, two that stick out in my head right now are John K. Sampson (The Weakerthans) and Blake Schwarzenbach (Jawbreaker/Jets to Brazil).
Right on! And I thought of another one today... Dare I say it? *takes deep breath* Dave Grohl.
-
yup, Dave Grohl totally counts.
Also Bryan Ferry - 'Avalon' was 1982.
-
i'm not normally one to care about lyrics or singing. i'm more of an instrumental kind of guy. that said, when lyrics DO hit me, it means something.
i have a soft spot for Stephen Jenkins' (Third Eye Blind) writing, Ben Gibbard's work on The Postal Service's "Give Up" is a guilty pleasure, and Richard Patrick of Filter could always write a mean tune.
others, like Opeth's Mikael Ankerfeldt and John Petrucci have already been brought up, which is good. ^_^
I think Ben Gibbard is a fantastic songwriter.
Oh, and Third Eye Blind should be your guilty pleasure.
-
Without counting For You and his self-titled I humbly suggest Prince.
John K. Samson, Jeff Tweedy, everybody involved with The New Pornographers... I think that rounds it out.
-
Seal
Absolutely. Only done four albums since 1992, which ain't a very good work rate, but he writes fantastic music.
Oh, and I add Trent Reznor, Noel Gallagher and Damon Albarne.
-
Brand Nubian
-
Tom Waits, Michael Gira & Justin Sullivan
-
*bump*
Hee hee hee...
David Byrne.
Just because of "Miss America" :P
-
Steve Harris, Mark Olivier Everett and Dave Grohl.
-
Tim Freedman, and as for Dream Theater, I like Petruccis stuff, but all the DT songs that I am really in love with seem to have been written by Portnoy. Its very fucking alien to me that my favorite songwriter in a band is the drummer, all the drummers I know try to stay as far away from the actual song-writing as they can.
-
Well, many of the greatest songwriters (and a few not so great ones) have already been named. I won't go and second all the ones I agree with, since that would just be a waste of time.
New ones:
Bruce Springsteen - He kept writing quality songs well into the 80s, and his latest is filled with great songwriting.
Thom Yorke - If Chris Martin can somehow get on here, then Thom should have been here long ago.
Rivers Cuomo - If only for The Blue Album and Pinkerton. We'll ignore the rest.
-
NAME DROPPING THREADS R FUNN
-
Portnoy's lyrics are constantly depressing. I mean, I know it's because of the crippling alcoholism he recovered from, but still.
However, The Glass Prison is badass.
-
I'm going to continue the chain for Robert Smith but this may surprise people:
Joshua Homme. Seriously.
-
Walter Schriefels. Rival Schools' "Undercovers On" is just too good. All the other bands he's been in have been wonderful as well.
-
Jeff Buckley
Sam Beam
Conor Oberst
Sufjan Stevens
Colin Meloy
Jeff Mangum
Josh Homme (thanks Octillus)
Kevin Drew/Brendan Canning
-
Umm... Black Francis???
-
I'm glad this thread's been revived, because last time around I somehow neglected to mention Shane MacGowan. And so did everybody else! Hang your heads in SHAME.
-
Billy Bragg by far. Exhibit A:
"I saw two shooting stars last night,
I wished on them but they were only sattelites,
It's wrong to wish on space hardware,
I wish I wish I wish you'd care"
"When will you wake up to the fact your paper is Tory,
and realise there are two sides to every story"
"Just because I dress like this,
Doesn't mean I'm a communist"
And, y'know, all of "Saturday Boy".
-
Craig Finn, and like a ton of other people already mentioned.
-
I know I saw billy bragg somewhere. He's one of my personal favorites.
Mike Ness as well. There is someone who has done nothing but progress over the last 20+ yes.
Greg Brown is fantastic, too.
-
Might as well join in. I really only have one addition. Frank Zappa. Seriously, the guy was a genius. over 50 albums, all of them different from one another, spawning muliple genres, and none of them even remotely suck.
-
Eddie Van Halen
Randy Rhoads
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Roger Waters
David Gilmour
Jeff Beck
Dave Morello
Iggy Pop
David Bowie
Pete Townshend
Slash and Axl Rose
Eric Clapton
Justin and Dan Hawkins
Cheap Trick
Daft Punk
Violent Femmes
Billy Idol
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
-
Conor Oberst
What!?
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
-
I concur. Conor Oberst must DIE.
-
Conor Oberst
What!?
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
DESTORY- BIRGHTEYES
I don't understand why you are spelling the band name wrong three times in a row. Was it an accident ?
-
I love Connor Oberst and Bright Eyes so ha.