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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Maverick on 31 Oct 2005, 18:24
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looking for thoughts on why stereotypes of Emo and Hip-Hop are so prevalent and often the subject of public jokes, yet metal, rave and indie (just 3 examples) could all so easily be subjected to the same treatment....yet aren't.
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Metal is totally stereotyped as "stupid" and "angry", which is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Rave is stereotyped, with good reason. Crack-addicted rapist motherfuckers.
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yeah, i know that all genres have their own stereotypes, but why is it that only a few are subjected to jokes? i listen to most genres, big metal fan, but i can't see why hip-hop is any more laughable than indie.
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The vast majority of Hip-Hop and Emo (as well as most mainstream Metal) is targeted towards a less intelligent, less musical, and generally more normal audience. People who have strange or different taste tend to poke fun at this group of sheepy-ass conformists. It's just what we do.
The only genre that truly deserves to be generalized about is reggae. But it's always in a good way.
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I find it's the metallers themselves who take the piss out of metal. Or of course they're serious in a really funny way.
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I think mostly emo and rap are made fun of because it started to get popular and people are too uncreative to think of anything new.
See any YTMND for the past few months.
Internet: A place where one funny joke is repeated until always.
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I find it's the metallers themselves who take the piss out of metal. Or of course they're serious in a really funny way.
Any metallian knight found disparaging the majesty and might of majestic metal might on my watch is up for a battering by my mighty axe!
Why did the term 'Metallian' never really spread outside of 80's Germany anyway?
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See?
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I think mostly emo and rap are made fun of because it started to get popular and people are too uncreative to think of anything new.
I don't have the experience on the emo side of that, but Roots Manuva and Blackalicious (as two very obvious examples) say you're wrong about nothing new and interesting in hip-hop.
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I think Kid Modernist meant that it's the people who make fun of emo and rap who are too uncreative to think of anything new (i.e., anything different to make fun of), rather than that emo and rap are uncreative.
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i'd be inclined to agree that ignorant tools are usually the type to rain abuse on hip-hop fans.... it can be argued that emo's deserve it, but perhaps more the contemporary melodramatic emo rather than your traditional emo.
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Oh, hip hop fans deserve it too. The vast majority of it is music for chav girls.
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I don't have the experience on the emo side of that, but Roots Manuva and Blackalicious (as two very obvious examples) say you're wrong about nothing new and interesting in hip-hop.
Those artists are hardly representative of most peoples' experience of Hip-Hop. If your idea of Hip-Hop is limited to the world of G-Unit and Nelly, then there is a unified stereotype with almost no variation. In which case, it is easy to mock. Same with Emo.
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Insignificant comment that I thought I had deleted after posting.
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Those artists are hardly representative of most peoples' experience of Hip-Hop. If your idea of Hip-Hop is limited to the world of G-Unit and Nelly, then there is a unified stereotype with almost no variation. In which case, it is easy to mock. Same with Emo.
inclined to agree. Nelly and G-Unit are what i would call 'pop' branches of rap and gangsta rap. if that is what your musical spectrum is limited to, i can see why one would pay out hip-hop. Australian Hip-Hop is awesome. Recomend "Lyrical Commision", "Bobby T", "The Herd" (for something political), much of the "Hilltop Hoods" and many others. Tupac is a classic, The Roots, Mehod man and Redman, Cypress Hill....just some of my american favs. But i'm not a very knowledgable Hip-Hop fan and i'm not all to familiar with the underground scene. metal is the go \m/
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I find it's the metallers themselves who take the piss out of metal. .
Like Rhapsody fans, for example. You can't even go shopping for groceries with a Rhapsody fan, without it turning into a fifteen part dialogue about slaying dragons.
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Every genre and stereotype is stupid, and can EASILY be made fun of. The ones that are good targets are the visible, popular ones.. and the ones that take themselves too seriously. Its impossible to take the piss out of someone who isnt being serious to start with isnt it?
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If you're not hearing silly jokes about metal, rave, and indie, it's not that they don't exist, it just happens nobody is telling them to you.
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As far as indie goes, I rarely complete a conversation about music or a band without at some point mocking the genre as a whole or at least its key players. I think I stereotype indie more than I stereotype emo, to be honest. Making fun of emo got old for me. It's just too easy. All the punks/metal kids at my high school make pretty good cracks at it, but I like the challenge of verbally scarring the indie people by using their own trite multisyllabic words against them. But, hey. Whatever floats your boat as far as the whole having-so-little-of-a-life-that-you-have-to-mock-music-genres thing goes.
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What is "rave" exactly? I thought rave music (or in candyraver speak RaVRcHoONZOmG!!) stopped existing after Praga Khan became Juno Reactor and The Prodigy signed to Maverick.
Are we talking about dance/electronic?
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Rave was a specific genre, but these days its more "lets go to a rave". It generally adopts high energy dance/electronic music (hard house, not so much trance).
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I wanna make a metal video clip one day taking the piss out of all aspects of metal. Firstly, I am a huge metal fan myself, but I don't take myself that seriously that I can't have a laugh!
Firstly, the band needs to be playing in the generic abandoned warehouse with chains hanging from the ceiling and barrels on fire. The band is wearing leather, and or, battle armour.
Maybe for the second verse they can be in some kind of castle ruins in a forest or something (anyone seen Rhapsody's 'Unholy Warcry'?) which will then lead into the guitar solo where the guitarist raises up into heaven on a cloud and angels around him make the metal horns and do some sort of dance.
There also needs to be a bit where they're riding choppers around and maybe pick up some 'skanks' (bit of a tribute to manowar) and then go to a pool hall, and point at the camera with ATTITUDE!
If anyone else has more ideas to add, tell me! I wanna make the best metal video ever!!! WOOOOO!!!
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there are some serious drugs afoot.
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everything gets stereotyped, but the curious thing to me is how much vitriol is behind the stereotyping sometimes. like people are really angry about emos and hiphoppers and metalheads. really, really angry.
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Adam and Andre - The Emo Song
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It's funny, because I look probably less like a metalhead than anyone ever.
Of course, I have like zero metal cred, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
But then again, the whole concept of cred is total bullshit. So I should just stop arguing with myself.
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If anyone else has more ideas to add, tell me! I wanna make the best metal video ever!!! WOOOOO!!!
Have at least one random cut to a guy standing in the middle of a forest blowing fireballs. And some stock footage of mountains/forests/imposing cathedrals/fjords, and a bit of hideous special effects where one band member looks like he's on fire whilst he plays.
Also, steal Impaled Nazarenes satanic cheerleaders.
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Also, at some point electricity has to come out the end of a guitar during a blistering solo, and smite a giant dragon.
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YES! Great ideas guys! I'll add em to a plan I might get going one of these days...
I recently saw a COB video clip for their new one, In My Face and Alexi Laiho spat into the air on at least three different occasions, but it isn't just these drop things, its like this huge spray of water. I'll have to get the singer to spit into the air every now and then.
Also, I reckon there should be a bit where the bassist is standing alone someone and a fiery pentogram encircles him and he strikes this really low note and theres a montage of things like mountains and churchs and all this crazy stuff colopsing!
Hahaha, this is gonna be "good"...
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If anyone else has more ideas to add, tell me! I wanna make the best metal video ever!!! WOOOOO!!!
Have at least one random cut to a guy standing in the middle of a forest blowing fireballs. And some stock footage of mountains/forests/imposing cathedrals/fjords, and a bit of hideous special effects where one band member looks like he's on fire whilst he plays.
Also, steal Impaled Nazarenes satanic cheerleaders.
And the heaven thing needs to be changed to Valkeries.
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Not if you want to play off Dio.
If you're thinking of copying anything else off of Children of Bodom, have your keyboard player (if there is one, and there should be) swigging vodka from a brown paper bag. Also, remember that smoke machines are your friend, and every band member needs their own sword to wave around during any parts they aren't ripping out ludicrous metal madness.
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well i can only think of max 2 or 3 people who will get this here, but if you do it makes (horrible, horrible) sense.
How to be a Junglist.
Kids, worried that scary junglists will show you the screwface when you step inside the dance? Don't worry, as these style tips will help you fit in, and soon you'll be begging for Grooverider to rewind 'the Odyssey' just like everybody else. Boh!
Steps
1. Boys: shave your head. It will better accentuate your fierce scowl and, if you like drumfunk, hide your imminent balding. Also, don't forget to grow a soul patch.
Girls: it doesn't matter what your hair looks like. You will be heavily outnumbered and therefore in high demand. If you should find this is not the case, post a picture of yourself on a D&B message board, and watch the replies roll in. Hint: your acne and fat arse are meaningless in the D&B world.
2. Clothes for boys: include hoodies, t-shirts and baggy trousers, (Carharrt, Stussy, arctic camo) no matter what style of D&B you prefer. Alternatively, if you and your crew all reach the club wearing Rockports and burberry caps, the DJ will probably play some hilariously-titled wobble tune for you, and rewind it five times. Proper, proper, proper.
Clothes for girls: see number 2. Just make sure that it's obvious you are a girl.
3. Rewinds: if you particularly appreciate the DJ's selection, make a funny gun-shape with your fingers and shout at him/her. Do not do this in any other circumstance, or it might lead to trouble. In any case, the DJ will undoubtedly rewind the biggest tunes anyway, even if the crowd were to sit there in stony-faced silence.
4. Your upbringing: Even if you grew up riding ponies and shooting pheasants on an estate in Buckinghamshire, or eating grilled-cheese in a trailer in Kansas, you still have bare love for all the mans in Brixton town. Practice teeth-sucking. Represent.
5. Mock everything.
6. Your musical background: you were born into this world to the sound of 'Amen Brother' by The Winstons, the mobile hanging above your cot was built by King Tubby, and you were the first kid at school to own signed copies of albums by NWA, 2Pac and Demon Boyz. The copies of "Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em" and the first Ugly Kid Joe album must have appeared in your record collection by mistake.
7. If you're from the UK, you have been around since day one, cause we invented this music, OK? If you're from the U.S., you heard it on a mixtape in the mid-nineties, and don't forget we invented hip-hop, you busted-teeth haters. If you're from anywhere else: STFU.
8. Everything started in 1992. That's all anyone cares about.
9. Saying any of the following in a sentence: "Seen, innit, mate, oi, innit, oi, oi, oi, respek" automatically qualifies you as a junglist, too. Congratulations.
10. Always, ALWAYS say you are a producer, and that you have several tracks "on lockdown." Fruity Loops is perfectly acceptable. If pressed, drop obscure terms like VST, Sub-bass Frequency Drop off ranges, Hi-pass noise click filters, ultramaximizing super limiters or Reese Boxes.
Tips
- Whatever you do, pay close attention to whatever style it is currently trendy to claim influenced you to begin listening to drum and bass. This varies as rapidly as the British weather, so watch out. A sudden switch in the mood of D&B could leave your knoweldge of the lyrics to 'Incredible' looking rather old hat. Likewise, the inexplicable nostalgia for late-nineties techstep may die a death very soon. In 2005, you will invariably be down with the "liquidy dub" styles.
- To be truely 1337, download crappy 320 conversions of dubplates from set rips, mix them together using FS and then pretend superstar DJ's "sent" you them.
- If in doubt, you and your "bredren" hung out at Speed, but you met your current crew on the dancefloor at the Blue Note in '95.
- Be sure and put down anyone that doesn't roll with your kru, even if (esp. if) they are into the same things you are. You want to make sure that everyone knows your are the original elite junglist. Example: Some guy says he likes an artist who's music you've included in a mix. Immediately tell him how wack he is and that said artist was a lot cooler a few years ago.
- Even if you are paralysed from the neck down, front like you are a DJ waiting for your big break. You have an enormous collection of dubplates back at the lab (ie. your mum's gaff, where you are known as "Raymond" rather than "RuffJunglist92") and have mastered a triple drop with the three most obscure Metalheadz b-sides outside of London. In reality, you have spent the last three years vainly attempting to beatmatch 'Bad Ass' with 'Bodyrock' in preparation for the day Helter Skelter call you because Nicky Blackmarket has a flat tire on his BMW.
- Be sure to flex your internet gangsta abilities at any given moment; be sure to reference commonly used Internet Relay Chat channels as who you rep: case in point #iamdnb, #dnbmonstertrux - for the young ones being tuff, please start in rooms like #dnbcarebears.
- Be ready to use the term "roller" as if you actually know what it refers to.
- Clownstep is in the eye of the beholder - don't be afraid to deploy this term against any artist who dares to play any tune that offends you and your spotty, virgin mates hanging out at the back of the club. Maybe a girl will hear you slagging off said big name artist and invite herself back to your flat to debate the merits of the No U-Turn back catalogue. Alternatively, you could just slag said artist on the DOA forum and be forced into an embarassing climbdown when they threaten you with a kicking after somebody forwards them your post.
- If you ever sell an older tune on Ebay, it will always be BUKEM RARE.
- Make sure that everybody knows that you smoke blunts all day every day and ecstasy is for retards who dance and look foolish.
- On forums, if you wish to really cement your status as Stupid Chav, for girls pick a username that begins "Lady". For fellas, MC quotes in CAPITAL LETTERS are a must, and maybe a football-related image.
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salada - that's awesome. Although I think "junglism" has gotten so metacynical that true junglists will actually hate on those who refer to themselves as a "junglist," even if they do it themselves on bbs, DOA, cov-ops, etc.
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That's pretty much prerfect, except for the fact that I would never ask for a rewind of The Odyssey. I really don't like anything by Drumsound & Bassline Smith, to be honest.
I'm seeing DJ Zinc on Saturday, and I'll be sure to yell both "Bo!" and "Rewind!" as much as possible.
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Stereotypes, musical-based or otherwise, exist because people are bleating, ignorant sheep. The masses crave conformity.
Indie music. It's not about listening to what you want to listen to, or wearing what you want to wear... it's about trying to out-obscure all your peers, and bragging about getting your clothes at value-village, or a second-hand store. Of course, there are going to be people who really just like the music, and really just dress that way... but ALL of them? Yeah, right. I'm going to fly to Japan in my jet fighter now.
Metal. It's just as bad. Supposed non-conformity, anarchy, etc. If a metal fan was truly a non-conformist, or anarchist, he would show up to a Varga or Kreator concert wearing a frilly pink tu-tu.
Rap, R&B, techno/electronica/rave, Industrial/goth... all symptoms of the same thing. The funniest part of it all, to me, is just how deluded some people can become. The Goths, for instance. Go to a goth club, and see just how 'individual' all the black-clad, white-make-up-wearing, spike-collared kids are. Yeah, you're really standing out... when you look exactly like everyone else around you.
My roommate listens to some of the most obscure indie music in the world. He would put 99% of you to shame with his collection and his range of knowledge. Does he work in a coffee shop, or music store? Nope, he works in Public Relations. Does he dress in ratty clothes that look second-hand? Nope, he's well-dressed. Does he listen to the music he listens to because he feels some need to diverge from the mainstream? Nope, he just really enjoys it... like he enjoys metal, and rap, and electronica, and rock, and new age... etc.
Some people (the rare cases) listen to music they like because they like it. They watch movies they like not because they're subtitled, or raved-about at indie-film-festivals, but because they just like those movies.
I listen to Radiohead, Roy Orbison, Nine Inch Nails, Matmos, Sigur Ros, The Beatles, Dire Straits, Sting (The Police), Elvis, Patsy Cline, Audioslave, Metric... because I like each and every artist for different reasons... not because I feel I have to fit in with some peergroup (god knows where I would fit in musically, were I to try!).
I'm an individual, because I am me. I'm not trying to be something, I'm just /being/. Most people don't live this way, from my experience.
And stereotypes are there because they're almost always true.
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You had me then you lost me with that last comment. Stereotyping when it comes to music is one thing, but when you extend that out to include members of ethnic groups, religions, races, etc. then saying that "Stereotypes are almost always true" implies something else.
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I should've been more clear... and more precise. Stereotypes that aren't racially motivated are typically true. As soon as you bring something which can invoke an emotional bias into the equation, you can no longer properly account for an accurate judgement.
Granted, you could use this same argument to claim that a stereotype of people who listen to Indie rock can't be accurate, because the people purporting this stereotype are going to have a bias against the music/culture... and that's valid too, I suppose.
I have simply noted, in my short time on this planet, that stereotypes are usually there for a reason, and it's always unique to meet someone who doesn't fit into a 'mold' of any sort.
That's all i really meant... but I ramble, and rant, and become unclear the longer the post gets... so I should really try to keep things succinct.
*EDIT:
To address the issue of religious stereotypes, I do think they tend to be true. After all, in order to consider yourself a member of a religion, you have to follow that religion's doctrine... and the stereotypes are going to be based upon those doctrines, right? Ethnic and racial stereotypes are untrue, and unfair, because these are individuals with different traditions, backgrounds, educations, dreams, talents, etc. Religious stereotypes are valid, IMHO, because these are all people who are following the word of god, god(s), whatever... they all have that shared fundamental aspect of their lives.
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Sideways: Unfortunately, I think you need to be more precise still, to wit: What exactly does "true" mean in reference to a stereotype? That it accurately describes every single person it purports to? I doubt that you'd agree with that. Since a stereotype is, by definition, a generalization about many people, saying that it's "true" could mean a lot of different things.
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If the stereotype itself is based upon a commonly known fact, shared amongst everyone in the target group, then I consider it to be true.
Goth kids wear black. You see, it's a stereotype, but in order to be considered a Goth kid you /have/ to wear black... therefore it is true, 100% of the time. If you just listen to industrial music, exclusively, but dress in cardigans, blazers and khakis, you're not a Goth Kid, therefore you're not /breaking/ the stereotype, rather; you don't fit into the group that the stereotype is based upon.
Am i making any sense?
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Bo!
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Okay, lets go through a few things here that have made me angry.
1:
Metal. It's just as bad. Supposed non-conformity, anarchy, etc. If a metal fan was truly a non-conformist, or anarchist, he would show up to a Varga or Kreator concert wearing a frilly pink tu-tu.
Where the hell did you pull this crap from? Since when is metal about non-conformism and anarchy? If you want to pick vague over-arching things metal is about, hedonism and unity as 'warriors of metal' or whatever is what we're talking about. Metalheads are geeks with attitude and a bit of belligerence who know in their hearts that all men play on ten: they also come in at least six or seven radically different sub-groups, making classifying them all, well stupid. And Anarchy and non-conformism? Since when has metal sung about that? Maybe a very few bands, but then, there are metal bands that sing about things like Lawnmowers, Ducks, Isreali nationalism, hating people called Ben and the purity of German Beer. Please do not confuse 15 year old kids who listen to bands like Trivium with actual metalheads. 'Anarchy and non-conformism' is, I think you'll find, what punk was about (in '77 at least). And I'm fucking sure some people turned up in pink tu-tu's back in the day.
Goth kids wear black. You see, it's a stereotype, but in order to be considered a Goth kid you /have/ to wear black... therefore it is true, 100% of the time. If you just listen to industrial music, exclusively, but dress in cardigans, blazers and khakis, you're not a Goth Kid, therefore you're not /breaking/ the stereotype, rather; you don't fit into the group that the stereotype is based upon.
GOTH KID DOES NOT. EQUAL. GOTH.
GOTH CLOTHES DOES NOT. EQUAL. GOTH.
Now, lets look at some pictures of some industrial, goth and neo-folk musicians:
Genesis P Orridge:
(http://seidr.woods.ru/p_orridge.jpg)
Invented industrial music.
Andrew Eldritch:
(http://home.arcor.de/vicus/sisters/eldritch/1992_eldritch_03.jpg)
Major formulator of the sound of goth rock. Never wore anything more elaborate than big sun-glasses and leathers. Deliberately distances himself from goth (the sign of the truest of true goths).
David Tibet (Current 93):
http://www.arrakis.es/~sdczine/c931.jpg
Mr. Tibet is almost certainly singing about drowning in the virgin mary's afterbirth or childrens book characters becoming fascist dictators. He is a seminal industrial and neo-folk musician. He is not, however wearing black.
You see, you really don't have to wear black to be goth. You don't have to conform to anything to be goth*. You just have to be goth, and not a snivelling little git decked out in spikes from Hot Topic. Also, a big Newsflash:
GOTH WAS NEVER ABOUT INDIVIDUALITY.
This was something made up by aforementioned angsty teenage cunts because they didn't understand goth. Goth was always a tribe, and a lot of people who enjoy or even make the music prefer to stay outside this tribe. The whole point of 'goth' (if a subculture whose name is purported to have started as an in-joke about Bauhaus's bassist can actually be said to have a point) was to create a culture, ie a cohesive body of people, that evolved values, etiquettes and moral standards that opposed those of mainstream society.
Also, it gives you an excuse to be really pretentious and smoke a lot of cloves, but that's besides the point. The point I'm trying to make is this: Just because you believe bullshit stereotypes based mainly on the misconceptions and vague jibber-jabberings of pathetic poseurs who wish to be part of groups or cultures they don't understand whilst never really dipping more than a toe outside the mainstream, doesn't make them true or valid. There are certainly a lot of true stereotypes about every subculture, but most of them are in-jokes. The public at large, and the media especially, likes to boil down everything into it's basic components. Remember, the media hasn't even realised emo's exist yet. It still thinks any outlandishly dressed teenager is a goth, and that they all smoke weed and listen to Marilyn Manson.
The only group I've ever found blatant stereotypes to be in any way true for is chavs, and that's only if you recognise the real and important distinction between chavs and townies.
*But you have to like Christian Death, or the other goths poke you.
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...Christian Death sucks.
and yeah, I don't believe metal was ever was about non conformity. ever. Punk? sure, why the hell not. Metal? No, just nerds who were more hardcore than the Rush nerds. And not much of the good metal is exceptionally violent or about anarchy, aside form bands who do it for a sort of ironic effect (ala S.O.D.). Bands sing about space travel and Eskimos and whatever the fuck Impaled Northern Moonforest sings about.
...and Trivium sucks.
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Khar, I'm pretty sure that Sideways was talking about stereotypes, not his own opinions.
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Thank you Luke... you beat me to it.
Khar, those were not my opinions, just random examples of stereotypes. Sorry you took so much personal offense... that's not to apologize for causing it, rather it's saying; "hey, sorry that happened."
Take two of these (http://www.scottieconnection.com/images/products/Chill%20Pill.jpg) and call me in the morning.
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Eesh, it is so not clear those are your opinions. SO NOT CLEAR.
Goth kids wear black. You see, it's a stereotype, but in order to be considered a Goth kid you /have/ to wear black... therefore it is true, 100% of the time. If you just listen to industrial music, exclusively, but dress in cardigans, blazers and khakis, you're not a Goth Kid, therefore you're not /breaking/ the stereotype, rather; you don't fit into the group that the stereotype is based upon.
This quote, to me, reads like you view subculture and stereotype as indivisible. Or something. And your stereotypes are just wrong WRONG I TELL YOU.
I need to go club some seals now.
@ Kai: I believe the necrowizard, the necrowitch, necroyetis, mt. necrodeathmortum, azabagorath and associated fjords, transylvanian wintermountains, necrobobsledders and necrotobogganers, moongoats (satanic or otherwise), grimness, frostbitteness, grim frostbitteness, gay bars and the incessent hailing of all the above are the normal lyrical themes of INM.
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wow, touchy subject. more fuel on the fire!
okay, being that i'm of an age where i'm not really the target demographic for some hustler in a suit trying to find the pulse of the current trendy subculture (and i'm not saying that that makes me anymore informed than anyone else), my perspectives come from an outside looking in standpoint.
as an example, the metal thing: the tendency for people to relate it as being dumb, loud, obnoxious, etc. is that in certain respects, the aggressiveness carries a sort of testosterone fueled male dominant tag. while that's not entirely fair in many respects, people need labels to identify things. no reviewer just says that a certain author is a simply a writer who writes. it's 'horror maven stephen king' or 'lower intestine freezing danielle steele'. it's a category that develops a stereotype based on not learned knowledge of the genre, culture or people, but of the assumed behaviours of said peoples, musics, cultures. by and large, if you're on the outside and don't understand or are willing to take a chance on learning to appreciate the variety and skills of the types of music, you'll assume negative stereotypes about it and its listeners as a way of distancing yourself from them.
second, and here, using goth as an example: i wear a lot of black. am i a goth? no. do i like some of the music? yeah, sure. but i also like a ton of other things that have nothing to do with goth or the quasi-goth culture that permeates a lot of the current market. part of the reason that there is so much mockery of certain genres is that an image has been built around them by people trying to sell you that image or sell you on staying away from it. they don't sell the lifestyle, just the either glossy or wretched surface pattern. what you end up getting is some sort of kraft sliced cheese product version and that gets some people with loud voices who are within the actual culture very upset and they start making up their own little jokes and jabs about the culture. but that's fine. nothing should ever take itself so seriously, so things need to have the piss taken out of them every so often.
and hip-hop, rave and all the others? they all have their own built up attitudes and biases, stereotypes and whatnot. it's easier for people to dismiss than to try and understand. but when you consider the middle of the road, safe,sorta-culture that permeates the popular concious, what it all ends up looking like is some great big arguement over things because we have nothing important to actually argue about. people hear the worst and assume the worst.
okay, end rant.
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@ Kai: I believe the necrowizard, the necrowitch, necroyetis, mt. necrodeathmortum, azabagorath and associated fjords, transylvanian wintermountains, necrobobsledders and necrotobogganers, moongoats (satanic or otherwise), grimness, frostbitteness, grim frostbitteness, gay bars and the incessent hailing of all the above are the normal lyrical themes of INM.
OK, I officially need to check out this band.
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http://inm.necrobation.org/
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Well then. As I read throught this I almost stopped and went off on the metal sterotype. But then I saw others did it for me. As for my view on stereotypes, it is always the people that listen only to that genre and nothing else that fall victim. Ex.
Bob only listens to Slayer. Any band other than Slayer sucks. If you even mention another band in the same sentence as Slayer, Bob tries to verbally remove your head. One would guess that Bob wears jeans/black pants, a Slayer t-shirt, has long hair and drinks far more than anyone should. He is also most likely very dumb.
Every "metalhead" (I am including myself in this one) that could ever string a coherent sentence together liked all sorts of things besides metal. While my favorite band is Nevermore, I also enjoy the Allman Brothers. Stereotypes simply apply to ignorant followers of the genre.
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Why did the term 'Metallian' never really spread outside of 80's Germany anyway?
maybe because of sailor moon (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Search?search=Metallian&go=Artikel)
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I think Manowar is pretty much the ultimate stereotype metal band. No, seriously.
Eh. I enjoy Finntroll just as much as The Beatles. Screw holing oneself up.
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Iron Maiden are a steretypical metal band.
They still kick your mom's ass though!
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If we're going to follow the stereotype above of METAL = stupid, Iron maiden isn't stereotypical but rather TOTALLY FUCKING BADASS.
And Finntroll rawks out to the max.
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Say WHAT?!
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Damnit... it was not my intention to start a war over Metal stereotypes.
Most people, outside of the 'scene', who are typically ignorant of it, would think that the stereotype is anarchy/chaos/etc. That's ALL I was trying to say.
OK, OK, OK, you all have 'metal-cred', that's nice... you guys missed my point about stereotypes, and actually illustrated a completely different one (music/scene snobbery)!
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both music snobbery and stereotyping are concerned with what image is projected by what taste in music. stereotypes were invented by narrow minded people for narrow minded people, if that makes any sense.
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I think you've all illustrated my point: a stereotype is often very subjective, i.e., more of a personal opinion. If that opinion is held in a similar fashion by a vast majority of people, the stereotype prospers. in this case, it is evident that barely two replies illustrate the same stereotype of a metal fan.
And thus begins my rant. Since when are metal fans dumb? some of the smartest people i know (in fact THE smartest people i know) have an appreciation for metal. take some time to talk to a person; a tendancy to get drunk and cause havoc or make art or listen to music does not imply barbaric stupidity (nor does a rejection of certain social institutions or socially accepted practices). i'd liken a metal fan to a bohemian before a brainless twat. Metal is a statement, usually of disgust/frustration with specific facets of people/society. Conversely, Punk/Goth/emo are all, "i hate you", which is all well and good, yet they fail to identify a logical or plausible reason why. They have usually been shat on and they let it happen or continue to happen: "i hate you because you don't let me do what i want"....here's a tissue, have a cry for feck sake. I think that a vast majority here is failing to differentiate between an affiliation with a music genre and an embrace of its specific sub-culture.
next hate:
"All you *insert random music genre here (metal was the example given)* who gather together in such and such bar, all wearing the same clothes when you are all attempting to show how individual you are is really stupid." Ridiculous. do you hang around with the type of people you hate? how large a percentage of the total population do you think the patronage of that bar would make up?[/i]
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OK, OK, OK, you all have 'metal-cred', that's nice...
Don't they call that 'trueness' or something? Eh.
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tr00ness, actually. Synonyms: trueness, metallosity, metallicity, grimness (black metal).
Also, everybody stop bashing goth. Not that goth hasn't got used to it or even cares particularly. It is totally disparate from emo, and does not really revolve around hate. More disdainful pity.
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Whee, metal stereotypes.
While we're at it, let me just say that everyone east of the Iron Curtain totally digs metal. My Croatian shift lead totally digs Iron Maiden, and the Turks seem to go nuts whenever Apocalyptica is mentioned.
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It's true.
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The Greeks listen to more Skyclad than they do Metallica. Poland has department stores with seperate floors dedicated to pop/dance etc. music and rock/metal, that sell black metal accessories and underground demo cassettes and vinyl. The Finn's think melodic metal is pop music.
And Britian has Big Brothaz *cries*
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Also, everybody stop bashing goth. Not that goth hasn't got used to it or even cares particularly. It is totally disparate from emo, and does not really revolve around hate. More disdainful pity.[/quote]
Just on this, I know theres another thread for the whole emo thing, but I'll write it here. I live in Australia, so basically we get the different social groups that emerge in America about 6 months to a year after americans do. The thing is with emo though, is that its only become such a hated thing since the rise of it within popular culture. Bands like Simple Plan are really the epitome of pop-emo, along with other pop-emo bands like the Used. In my opinion, emo that was around before like 2003 or whenever was more associated with punk, and its more fitting to say that emo and punk are closely related. These days, a lot of emotional music of any sort is often bashed as theres a bit of an emo-phobe thing happening. An idiot friend of mine heard the opening lines to Iced Earths "Melancholy": "Make this sadness go away, come back another day" and said "whats this emo shit?" and I pissed myself laughing (he's a musical moron, I'm not a leetest, but its true).
In any case, the essence of pop-emo is what I despise among all else at the moment. It is the whole idea of the emo being the center of their own little universe, everyone around them is always wrong even under indisputable evidence (pretty much) and no one can possibly understand the emotions they feel. The world is black and white, and constantly bittersweet. Now don't say I'm labelling sterotypes, but this is pop!!! I know real emo-listeners aren't really like this. Its really just a phase, just like pop-gothicism was last year and the "shiny gangstaz" before them. Everyone hates them, but they'll eventually leave school and realise the real world is a very different place.
On metal, as I am a huge metal fan, I understand what you're saying with the whole pop-anarchy thing at the moment. I'm gonna go as far as say that System of a Down are a pop band at the moment, The fact they release two albums in a year, the first only having 30 minutes of material (which Im told by SOAD fans is crap) is kind of testament to my belief. But the lyrics Ive heard and have read, its just this crap thats pandering to the youth idea of anarchy. And its ridiculous non-intelligent. Ive been and seen 3 local bands in the past six months, each had a song called Anarchy and two of which sounded exactly like bloody Rage Against the Machine. I bet half of them have no idea what anarchy means. Theres a similar thing I feel going on with the sounds pioneered by Norwegian and Swedish bands like In Flames and Soilwork, all these new bands are going for exactly the same sound with the screaming vocalist and the melodic death music stuff. These bands I feel aren't true original bands. There's a lot coming out of America at the moment, and for me to find a modern metal band with actual singing is an absolute joy. Don't get me wrong, Im a huge fan of bands like COB and In Flames, Im just picking a lot of un-originality from some bands now-a-days. It should be unnessary for In Flames to be broadening and changing their sound on every album, but its obvious they wanna stay fresh even if they did invent the sound thats becoming generic. In a case like this I think sterrotypes serve a purpose to make these bands SHUT UP, or become original!!!!
And also, Manowar being the perfect sterotype of metal, I have to agree with. I love Manowar, they're a great band despite the cheesiness and you have to respect them keeping the same "Death to false metal!" warcry they've had going for years! I think the whole thing is, they say they're the loudest band in the world, and the whole larger than life personas, dress, lyrics, all that stems from that and I admire it, while laughing! Hahaha.
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Iron Maiden are a steretypical metal band.
They still kick your mom's ass though!
Maiden are too much fun to be stereotypical metal.
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The Greeks listen to more Skyclad than they do Metallica. Poland has department stores with seperate floors dedicated to pop/dance etc. music and rock/metal, that sell black metal accessories and underground demo cassettes and vinyl. The Finn's think melodic metal is pop music.
And Britian has Big Brothaz *cries*
It took me some time to realise metal is kind of not a popular genre in certain weird remote parts of the world.
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Metalheads are geeks with attitude and a bit of belligerence who know in their hearts that all men play on ten.
I.LOVE.YOU.
Hahaha.. that is probably the best thing anyone has ever said.
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I'm not sure whether I'm the only one who has ever encountered that, but the dim perception most people have of the whole metal culture can also work against you if you're not even part of it.
I for example have rather long hair and I don't listen to pop. So basically, in the eyes of most people, I listen to metal. I never knew having long hair automatically means one has to love metal, but apparently it does.
I mean, I understand that people who have never even tried to listen to something that does not appear in the charts would assume that I am metal, being that it's the only "subculture" they know, but what completely confuses me is that I was asked by people who listen to metal whether I also liked it, on the accoun that I am wearing a band shirt (At the Drive-In are metal now? Did I miss a meeting?) and have longer hair.
The fact that metal is more popular in eastern Europe might be because studies have shown that these people can handle more complex music because they're used to it. In our culture, the 4/4 rhythm dominates everything and people already have trouble understanding a simple change from 3/4 to 4/4. Tell them to clap that, they probably couldn't. They probably couldn't even manage a 2/4 beat.
In eastern Europe, you have traditional dances that were not 4/4-based, say polka (2/4) or polka-mazurka (3/4). So I figure, to them, metal is less annoying because it requires less effort listen to (on the whole).
The same applies to South America, by the way. People there are also able to handle more complex rhythms, from what I've read.
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Bulgarian folk music uses things like 7/8, 9/8, 15/16, but I have only a vague idea what thet means. Also I don't know if that makes people like metal more... So I can't say anything useful. I shut up.