THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: JLM on 19 Apr 2006, 22:59
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So I'm really diggin' the latest Aceyalone & RJD2 effort, though I think that the production values are still a bit better than the rhymes. J Dilla's Donuts has been on and off for a couple months as well, and I've been all into Nujabes' Modal Soul.
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I find it interesting that other threads talk about individual bands (Sonic Youth) or certain currents within a greater whole (Viking Metal) yet everyone seems to think that Hip-Hop is a tiny niche only big enough to fill one thread. Smells like...hipsterism!
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My admittedly narrow definition does exclude groups like 13 and God and Prefuse 73, since I consider them more electronica than hip-hop.
I also couldn't fit any more in the title space (and believe me, I tried).
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I will now list some hip-hop artists I enjoy
Dr. Dre
Snoop Dogg
Kanye West
MF Doom, Madvillian, DangerDoom ect.
Common
Cam'Ron
T.I.
Beastie Boys
Outkast
The Streets
Roots Manuva
Sage Francis
Aesop Rock
Buck 65
Granted some of these artists I like only a few tracks, some I like entire albums, and I've forgot other artists completly.
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Also, just to poke the thread title a bit, as far as I recall, RJD2 isn't black.
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Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes? Yeah, I think that was the one.
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For that matter, Nujabes isn't black either. Better throw me in literal jail, as opposed to figurative jail which would just be a big pony festival.
The title is a riff on a well known comment from Kanye West in regards to the President. If you're outside of the United States, though, you'd probably miss that.
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Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes? Yeah, I think that was the one.
No, you're also a fucking gay.
I pretty much represent the memphis scene, even though i live nowhere near it at all haha. Lil Wyte, Three 6 Mafia, Project Pat, Gangsta Boo, Indo G. you name it, if it's from memphis, i've either got it or heard it.
on an aside, buck 65 doesn't make hiphop anymore.
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Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes? Yeah, I think that was the one.
No, you're also a fucking gay.
Your homophobic sentiments do little to persuade me that the genre is any more rich or meaningful than I already suggested.
Seriously, though, I have yet to hear a hip hop band with any kind of redeeming musical value. By all means, point me towards some groups that aren't about the abovementioned topics, and maybe experiment a little bit with vocal harmony or beat beyond the usual fare, and I will stand corrected.
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Dalek
RJD2 (as previously mentioned)
Roots Manuva
The CunninLynguists
Nujabes (Previously Mentioned)
Madlib
Populous
Daedelus
Any of the MF DOOM projects
The Roots (Illadelph Halflife/Things Fall Apart)
Spacek
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RJD2 (As previously mentioned repeatedly)
Aesop Rock
MC Paul Barman
MC Frontalot
DJ Shadow
Dan the Automator
Atmosphere
Doseone
Why?
Vanilla Ice
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Immortal Technique
Buck 65's earlier work
Sage Francis
Del Tha Funky Homosapien
Unicron
Deep Puddle Dynamics
hell, Eminem fits this bill.
Necro and Ill Bill (is knifing people that aren't "gangstas" allowed?)
Outkast
the above two posts make this hard :(
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Outshined, you've never looked for it have you?
The Herd
Jurassic 5
Ugly Duckling
Roots Manuva
Dalek (now I'm just too lazy to put websites in)
Gorillaz
Michael Franti & Spearhead (about as far from knifin bithces and hos as you can get)
Lyrics Born (and pretty much everyone on Quannum)
Hilltop Hoods
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BLACK
A
LICIOUS
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how did you guys manage to forget Public Enemy?
Outshined is getting schooled quite hard, i must say.
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Oh, come on, guys. Have we really gone this far into the thread with NOBODY mentioning mc chris? Seriously.
WHITE KIDS LIVE HIP HOP
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Seriously, though, I have yet to hear a hip hop band with any kind of redeeming musical value. By all means, point me towards some groups that aren't about the abovementioned topics, and maybe experiment a little bit with vocal harmony or beat beyond the usual fare, and I will stand corrected.
Just for future reference, it's generally considered more acceptable, in terms of ohhh decorum and such, to do some research before coming onto a message board and making sweeping, insulting and untrue statements.
Mitigate your ignorance before you go proclaiming it. Your original post could have been improved a thousandfold by sticking a "I haven't really done any research, but as far as I can tell..." in front of it instead of coming in here and all arrogantly going THIS IS THE WAY I HAVE DECIDED THINGS ARE, PROVE ME WRONG.
Anyway, I recommend the following, most of whom have already been suggested:
Common
Del tha Funkee Homosapien / Deltron 3030
MF Doom, about whom I read a magazine article which quoted him as saying:
"Let's talk about having children, as opposed to killing people's children. Like, why say, 'Yeah, if you don't bust ya gun, you're a pussy!'? You know how easy it is to bust a gun? You might as well pick something more interesting, like - jump in a pool! That's about as easy as bustin' a gun, but you ain't hurtin' nobody! Let's all go swimming! If you ain't swimming, you wack!"
And while we're sort of on the subject of white rappers, MC Paul Barman is amusing in very, very small doses.
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He's right about mainstream hip-hop, though. Bitches, ho's, blunts, big pimpin', candy shops, Polaroid pictures.
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But you can’t battle me, so you’d rather embarrass me //
I maintain dignity in the face of calamity //
They reach out their hand to me and talk dishonestly //
But I read through their syntactic structure like Noam Chomsky //
A student so overzealous I motivate my trainers //
I’d rather get some now than get some later //
Take a break from writing rhymes on paper, recondition my character //
Change my nature with 7 days of Vipassana //
Let go of the stress, man I was deeply depressed //
So famished, in fact, I needed a rest //
To regenerate my mind //
Bless the cornerstone of my rhyme with corn oil and wine //
Then see the light, an illuminous paradigm //
It became more apparent with time //
All I had to do was follow the signs //
To be a better man I need help //
I’ve just got to find the link between my inner deity and myself //
Hopefully this puts to rest the question of whether or not all rappers talk about is guns, money, drugs, and hoes.
By the way, this is a verse from the song "M-Sea-Cresy" by Canibus, from his album "Rip The Jacker." PIcking up a copy is recommended.
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Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes? Yeah, I think that was the one.
That's so close minded that it looks like a parody. I'm not ruling out the possiblity.
Hip-hop/rap I like:
Eminem (he's my favwite! No not because he's white, because he's talented and I think his lyrics are great.)
Snoop
Dre
Public Enemy
Beastie Boys
Nas
RATM (they count, dammit)
The Streets, occasionally
Jay Z
The hip-hop sub-genre I really can't get on with is crunk.
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Yeah, crunk really has given hip-hop a bad name of late. Oh, for the days when actually-talented lyricists were on the charts!
I don't really blame the hip-hop haters who have only ever listened to stuff that's gotten onto BET or the radio in the last 4 years. Nowadays you need to actually look for decent rap if you want to find any.
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Nowadays you need to actually look for decent rap if you want to find any.
Indeed, often you need to go back about a decade or two find it, too. I really hated rap until I discovered the Sugarhill Gang, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash and the like.
And don't be knocking crunk. Admit it, there is no better a soundtrack for rolling through the hood than a bit of Three 6 Mafia.
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yeah, but how often do you actually roll through the hood?
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Oh, come on, guys. Have we really gone this far into the thread with NOBODY mentioning mc chris? Seriously.
THE TUSSIN, THE TUSSIN!
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Busdriver
Swollen Members
2Mex
Muph And Plutonic
MC Chris
Some of my favourite rap artists at the moment. None of the mare "gangstas."
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Busdriver is freaking amazing.
That said, I also listen to J5 and a bit of Del.
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Yeah, crunk really has given hip-hop a bad name of late. Oh, for the days when actually-talented lyricists were on the charts!
That'd only be like, 2001 when Eminem's last decent recordings were in the chart.
Although saying that, Sing For The Moment was great, lyrically.
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Looking across this thread it's rather insane seeing the artists I neglected to mentioned, espically DJ Shadow I'm listening to Entroducing again right now and it's just fantastic.
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While you guys are on the topic could you recommend some rap for me to listen to?
I listen to death/power metal with occasional indie stuff here and there.
Recently i feel like trying different genres and rap is really hard for me to get into.
I got an Outkast cd a few weeks ago and really hated it. I do remember listening to some early Eminem album several years ago and liking it.
thanks
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Ah, yes, I have Endtroducing as well, and it is an amazing album.
In all seriousness, though, it seems like a lot of those bands you posted, like Gorillaz, Dan the Automator and DJ Shadow, are extremely heavy on the electronica hybridization that I wouldn't really call them hip hop anymore, but electronic music with hip hop influences. Gorillaz, in particular, seems more like a "bit of everything" band that occassionally does hip hop really well =). I suspect a few more bands on some of these lists are like this, as well.
A lot of the rest of the artists you mentioned are much older, "classic" figures of hip hop, but I haven't heard very many modern artists mentioned at all.
Also, since when is Eminem good? Have the masses decided that we like him despite the immature, misogynist lyrics now? You'll forgive me if I don't hop on that train =P
It is just very difficult not to get jaded about a genre that seems inundated by talentless knockoffs, y'know?
I'll check out Aesop Rock, and Buck 65 though, a lot of people mentioned them.
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Not that I know much about the style but get:
A Tribe Called Quest - Midnight Marauders
Atmosphere - Seven's Travels
Dilated Peoples - The Platform
Nas - Illmatic
Then on the more DJ kinda side of things check out DJ Shadow, R2D2, Mr. Dibbs, and that guy whose name begins with a Q that I always forget. Q-bert?
Also, yeah, it's a bit of a stretch to call Gorillaz hip-hop. They're a pop-based mixing pot of everything else. However if you like De La Soul's contribution to "Feel Good Inc." get the 3 Feet High And Rising album.
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Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes? Yeah, I think that was the one.
No, you're also a fucking gay.
Your homophobic sentiments do little to persuade me that the genre is any more rich or meaningful than I already suggested.
Seriously, though, I have yet to hear a hip hop band with any kind of redeeming musical value. By all means, point me towards some groups that aren't about the abovementioned topics, and maybe experiment a little bit with vocal harmony or beat beyond the usual fare, and I will stand corrected.
Of course, the argument could be made that you can’t get into decent hip-hop by basing your choices on the mainstream, but when is the last time you found decent anything by basing your choices on the mainstream. It holds true with every other fucking genre that only about 5% of the good stuff gets into the charts, so why is it that you think that the only hip-hop in the whole world is what you hear in the top 40?
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My favourite rapper is Bob Dylan.
...what?
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Of course, the argument could be made that you can’t get into decent hip-hop by basing your choices on the mainstream, but when is the last time you found decent anything by basing your choices on the mainstream. It holds true with every other fucking genre that only about 5% of the good stuff gets into the charts, so why is it that you think that the only hip-hop in the whole world is what you hear in the top 40?
Yeah, pretty much. All the GS NIGGAS N HOES shit on MTV really isn't representative of anything except what record label execs know will sell.
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Koopstanicca is actually not a bad rap-group! But as far as rap or hip-hop goes,I usually just enjoy random songs..not necessarily all material by the artists. For example..
Dre-Fuck Tha Police
DMX-Bring Ya Whole Crew
Three Six Mafia-Slob on my Knob,Hit A Motherfucker
To name a few.
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Twista.
Now here me out. I realize he raps about ho's and pimps and that the production is pretty average. But the guy has got crazy speed.
I also like Outacast, Aesop Rock, Atmosphere, J5, Kanye, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, Talib Kweli and don't forget fucking De La Soul and Mos Def.
A question. Hip-hop sub genres? What are they and what are the distinctions?
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Not that I have any authority or knowledge whatsoever, but I'm pretty sure it's to do with what kind of beats and whatnot you use.
You can get reggae hip-hop, for instance.
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crunk is very easily not even rap music. it's dance music. that's like looking at rave music (without being so fucking horrifying as house music) and comparing it to DJ Shadow. it's got electronic simple beats, a lot of the similar samples (claps, whistles) and often the same repeated hooks that aren't based on rhymes/serve nearly as much as you'd find in rap music.
i love crunk, but it's nearly impossible to call it rap.
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I really hated rap until I discovered the Sugarhill Gang
The Sugarhill Gang are not rappers. They may happen to rap (when asked to do so by a record company), but they are bouncers, who were helped out by a lot of rappers, and promptly forgot these rappers that helped them get their fame. Goddamned sellouts.
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ugh it's almost jarring to see people who haven't yet placed hip-hop into the "doesn't suck" category.
however, i'll have nothing but respect for Outshined if he/she keeps the attitude after giving a fair chance to the standard hip-hop groups that are used to changes the minds of naysaying hipsters.
it's equally jarring to see that there is no love for the wu-tang clan on here.
and am i the only one who's getting tired of doom? yes, he's talented, but damn he never changes up his flow at all.
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I've tried pretty much everything in the hip-hop line, and, well, I thought some Goldy Lookin' Chain songs were pretty amusing.
That's about it. I'm scratching about for some decent dark instrumental trip-hop though, I get a feeling I may like that.
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3X Dope
Atreyu
Heiruspecs
Fort Minor
Dr. Octagon
Modill
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THE TUSSIN, THE TUSSIN!
PUT IT DOWN LIKE IT WAS NOTHIN'
ROBOCOP COULDN'T STOP ME FROM PUKIN' AND FUSSIN'
NO BALLS TO BE BUSTIN'
NO FIGHTIN', NO CUSSIN', JUST LOVE FOR A DRUG CALLED ROBUTUSSIN!
I can totally go along with that entire song.
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Wouldn't call Atreyu hip-hop. Cos, they really aren't.
El-P is one of the best things since sliced bread, and I think, the best hip-hop artist recording today.
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A: I don't appreciate the title of this thread, tongue-in-cheek or not.
B: Making any sort of blanket statements about musical genres is retarded. So is using the term "gay" as an insult.
C: I forgot what C was going to be.
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I pretty much represent the memphis scene, even though i live nowhere near it at all haha. Lil Wyte, Three 6 Mafia, Project Pat, Gangsta Boo, Indo G. you name it, if it's from memphis, i've either got it or heard it.
i'm there, m town reppin. haterz best be steppin. except i live sorta close to memphis, and i party with a lot of people that go to university of memphis. i own so many three 6 cds. choices is a badass album. their new one is pretty tight too. i mean, three 6 won an oscar (for writing the songs for "hustle and flow")! they aren't 'rap group three 6 mafia' but fucking "oscar-winning artists Three 6 Mafia" it's about time they got some credit. i've been jamming wit em since 1996.
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I thought some Goldy Lookin' Chain songs were pretty amusing.
those guys are nuts! they used to have these ridiculous 8-bit looking games on their website that were hilarious and fun at the same time. i must have killed 10 hours playing them at work that week.
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I know a guy who knows GLC. They're all, unsurprisingly, quite well off, not particularly chavvy students. They met at Cardiff Uni.
I just think they're perfect. The video to 'Guns Don't Kill People, Rappers Do' is just classic. With the pimped out spack chariots old person vehicles and all.
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Seriously, though, I have yet to hear a hip hop band with any kind of redeeming musical value. By all means, point me towards some groups that aren't about the abovementioned topics, and maybe experiment a little bit with vocal harmony or beat beyond the usual fare, and I will stand corrected.
the rap you are describing is (for the most part) contemporary, popular rap. which i will agree is almost always shitty.
heres a few that i like:
immortal technique
deltron 3030 (and everything else with del attatched)
mf doom
dangermouse
dangerdoom
non phixion
nujabes
public enemy (if you ignore flava flav)
beastie boys
chattabox
andre nickatina
blackalicious (he raps about science, c'mon)
theres also some really good underground rappers in my area (bellingham, wa) whos names i cant remember
um thats all i can think of right now. but seriously look some of those guys up, chattabox and non phixion might not be your style because i guess they still rap about "gangster stuff" but i still think they are good despite that. and non phixion does use some really cool beats that incorporate alot of stringed instruments and brass/wind instruments, giving it a really cool sound. that isnt "the usual fare."
and i strongly recommend immortal technique and blackalicious, they blew my mind when i first heard them and i still love 'em both.
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public enemy (if you ignore flava flav)
what?!?
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FLAVA FLAV WINS MAN
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C: I forgot what C was going to be.
C was going to be you telling us who your favorite rapper was?
RE: the title - "J. Jacques" could be anyone! It could even stand for "Joseph!"
Kidding aside, it's your site and if you tell me to change the title I'll change it. I didn't think it would be that offensive but ultimately it's your call.
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Man, hip hop is something I get angry about. As I've found out lately there is still so much good hip hop around, and yet hardly any of it gets onto the radio anymore because of all the goddamn fucking whores selling themselves and out & making themselves and the rest of their community look like fucking assholes.
How the fuck have we gone from Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five, Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest to Snoop Dogg, Ludacris & 50 Cent?
I mean shit, even NWA had some social commentary in their songs.
Ok, so that said:
- Public Enemy
- Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
- A Tribe Called Quest
- Jungle Brothers
- De La Soul
- NWA, then Ice Cube (Dre can go fuck himself, though)
- Eric B & Rakim
- Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy
- The Roots
- Jurassic 5 (although most of their stuff is starting to sound the same now)
- Sage Francis
- RJD2
- Talib Kweli
- Mos Def
- Jean Grey
- The Herd (Aus)
- Atmosphere (going to a show on saturday night, woo)
- Hilltop Hoods (Aus)
- Koolism (Aus)
- Z-Trip
I think Outkast are alright. Ugly Duckling and Blackalicious, also. Some of Missy Elliott's stuff is absolutely fucking hilarious. I don't really count Gorillaz as rap, but I like them. Some of Kanye West's stuff is awesome, but I'm really starting to get sick of his attitude. Same with the Streets. I really like some of the songs, but I've heard that Mike Skinner's a bit of an asshole.
I liked Eminem a little when I first heard his deprecative humour raps and so forth, but then when he started to take himself seriously I quickly got turned off. Then he started all that stupid shit with Moby & I realised that he was a fucking meathead.
I used to like Cypress Hill, but then realised they were a bunch of well-off kids masquerading as Gs & tried to claim that Ice Cube ripped off one of their songs or some shit. Also, B-Real's voice gets to be like a bee in your fucking ear after a while.
I'm sure I've missed some, but thar ye go.
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I'm all about NWA and Kanye West. Past that I'm lost.
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Man, hip hop is something I get angry about. As I've found out lately there is still so much good hip hop around, and yet hardly any of it gets onto the radio anymore because of all the goddamn fucking whores selling themselves and out & making themselves and the rest of their community look like fucking assholes.
Welcome to the entire music scene! Well, except for genres that very few people like, because then the assholes don't get any play time either, because they can't make any money off of it.
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Buck 65, contrary to certain expressed beliefs, still makes hip hop music. He just incorporates blues elements and elements of his home - the Canadian maritimes - into his music. He also made the song "Devil's Eyes." But that is not representative of his newer work.
So, with that in mind, it's all about Buck 65, Black Star, Blackalicious, Mos Def, anything that Quasimoto and MF Doom are involved with (especially Madvillain!), Common, Kanye, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, De La Soul, Ludacris, Talib Kweli, Nas, and pretty much anything that's recent by Snoop Dogg ("Signs?" "Drop It Like It's Hot?" Hell yes), and the occasional piece of crunk. Oh, and "The Whisper Song" which is creepy and wrong but yet very fun to listen to. If you can't hate children, how can you hate grown men with child minds?
And guys - everybody - if you don't like the gangsta elements, fine, but don't hold it against the artists. Considering rap's origins, history, and connections to modern urban culture, the content of a lot of rap now is the social commentary - like, the medium is the message. Basically, it's not up to the rappers to start rapping about their Adidas shoes again, it's up to us to be culturally literate and filter out why they're rapping about sex and violence. And for that matter, it's up to us to ask that exact same thing about rock music and electronic music and a lot of music and do you see my point yet? Music doesn't exist in a vacuum. Simple as that.
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I've seen a few folks mention the Hilltop Hoods, and while they're not terrible, I'm just kind of surprised they were thought highly enough of to mention it here, because while I loved them when I was first getting into Hiphop a few years ago, the more I listen to them, and other hip-hop, the more I get tired of them. I mean, don't get me wrong, theres still a few songs on their albums I still put on regular rotation (What the Seasons Change, Distortion, Illusionary Lines and The Sentinal are all great songs), but they just lost a lot of their initial sparkle for me when I heard a lot of the other stuff out there.
Plus, they are Aussies, so considering how few hip-hop groups really make it on a large scale, I guess theres quite a bit of pride there as well, but generally, I prefer Koolism, or even The Herd, and Butterfingers for any sort of serious music sessions.
Then again, I do have pretty "terrible" taste in music in other genres, so shit, I am not judging anyone.
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I have no problems with them rapping about sex and violence, it's just the way that they do it. Most of the artists on my list (and probably on others, too) do address gangsta elements, but they try to do it in a way that doesn't seek to glorify and promote it. (the obvious exceptions in my list would be Ice Cube & NWA).
Most rap that I've heard talks about some kind of social problem. To use an example I wrote a while ago, if given the choice I'll take say:
Grandmaster Flash, The Message:
"Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just don’t care
I can’t take the smell, I can’t take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie’s in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn’t get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car"
over Ludacris from Chingy's Holiday Inn:
"Stop, drop, KABOOM!, baby rub on ya nipples
Some call me Ludacris, some call me Mr. Wiggles
Far from little, make ya mammary glands giggle
Got 'em under control, the bowl of tender biddles"
or 50 Cent from "P.I.M.P" :
"I told you fools before, I stay with the tools
I keep a Benz, some rims, and some jewels
I holla at a hoe til I got a bitch confused
She got on Payless, me I got on gator shoes "
It's like, the people at the bottom aren't getting the airplay any more, it's more the cocks at the top who are making money just bragging about it & telling people that they can do it too if they just push drugs to their friends and neighbours & rent out their girlfriends as whores. That's not the kind of message that should be given airplay.
I understand though that it's as much a problem with society as it is with hip hop in itself. There's a market for this shit because everyone's become more self-centred and materialistic. But then that's a conversation for another time, on another board.
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everybody
Est, I appreciate your argument, and actually concur with the fact that commercialism is supressing high-quality hip-hop in favour of braggarts with poor self-awareness and total dickassery. (Also, shitty beats - have you ever LISTENED to a Scott Storch song?)
The problem I have is just with people complaining about the content of a lot of gangsta rap and rap in general. If you have that much of a problem with it, maybe get your hip-hop fix from DJ Shadow?
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Everything that Hat just said is pretty much true. I mainly included the 'Hoods because they were like a gateway drug for me.
Another thing that I should have made more clear; The Herd are fucking awesome. They were probably actually the initial kick in the ass that sent me tumbling down the hiphop hill. I've forgotten what the track was called but
'Like a three dollar fourty
bag of fresh hip hop
from your local fish and chips shop
aah, scallops
with dollops of flavour on top'
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Heard some Immortal Technique for the first time today, and it was pretty good, actually. A step up lyrically, for sure.
In regards to est's commentary and JC: It's true that sex and violence in music is no new thing, but what really irks me is the social irresponsibility of the artists. A ton of young, impressionable kids listen to this genre, and it just infuriates me that in spite of this, they make this wash for the express point of selling to this demographic, who eat it up word for word. They aren't setting a particularly good example and they glorify that, and I really think it's starting to reflect on the mentality of kids nowadays.
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t.i. - king
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Buck 65, contrary to certain expressed beliefs, still makes hip hop music. He just incorporates blues elements and elements of his home - the Canadian maritimes - into his music. He also made the song "Devil's Eyes." But that is not representative of his newer work.
and if you listen to the rest of the album (I put secret house as my best of 05) barely any of it is hip-hop. the first three songs can be described as 1) johnny cash, 2) a french piano ballad, and 3) math rock. the fourth song is similar to talkin honkey blues, which was already a huge step away from hiphop. he's moving towards more singing-like vocals (though it's still closer to.. talking) and the album moves back to more honky blues esque material and back to simple country songs. not to mention Drawing Curtains, one of my favourite songs on the album (if not #1) is NOTHING like hiphop.
not trying to sound like a dick or anything, but the album is nothing close to it. compare it to Square or Vertex era Buck and it's like listening to two different artists. Nothing but amazing growth from him.
and to the guy ^ who said T.I. - King... YESNO. There are a few song early on in the album that are KICKASS, but the album has dry patches where i find it totally boring. It's a pretty huge variety on the good meter.
And I can't possibly be the only guy who likes rap about sex guns and cars? It's not like I give two or three shtis about Conor Oberst's ex-girlfriend, so I can hardly see how the majority of music's content can be passed along, but rap music is cheap and horrible and should be demeritted because it's "mature" to rag on the lifestyle.
and since WHEN were ANY musicians rolemodels? if it isnt 50 cent singing about sex and drugs it's minus the bear singing about sex and drugs, or aerosmith singing about sex and drugs, or tori amos singing about sex and drugs. musician's lifestyles and image are NEVER good for rolemodels, so again, you can't dock rap for that.
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I think the problem with the lifestyles that rap stars talk about is that their music is marketed to a younger demographic than most music. If you listen to the radio, which is where most young'uns get their music, nothing comes close to rap when it comes to violence, sex, and drugs. Yes, other musicians talk about a lot of the same stuff and aren't targeted for it, but other musicians don't have a fanbase younger than 16 for the most part. Rap does, which is why people are actually concerned about its content.
And for the record, I really like when a good rapper starts boasting about the people he robbed, the drugs he does, the girls he fucks, and the size of his penis. If he's really good at it, it makes for great rap.
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I think the problem with the lifestyles that rap stars talk about is that their music is marketed to a younger demographic than most music. If you listen to the radio, which is where most young'uns get their music, nothing comes close to rap when it comes to violence, sex, and drugs. Yes, other musicians talk about a lot of the same stuff and aren't targeted for it, but other musicians don't have a fanbase younger than 16 for the most part. Rap does, which is why people are actually concerned about its content.
...uh, you mean every 12 year old on the planet with that led zeppelin shirt and a skateboard listens to 50 cent?
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For every 12-year-old with a Zep shirt, there's 4 who just turn to their local rap station every time the radio comes on. Rap is basically the only music that exists for poor urban black kids.
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For every 12-year-old with a Zep shirt, there's 4 who just turn to their local rap station every time the radio comes on. Rap is basically the only music that exists for poor urban black kids.
oh i thought you meant every kind of person.
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I'll join the choir who dislike gangsta. I think the views they express through rapping are misguided and stupid. The message is what I have a problem with, to say that is akin to listening to a nazi band is a bit strong but I definitely disagree vehemently. Why? because I think it has a debasing effect, glorifying violence, degrading women, promoting ignorance etc. and the music isn't even that great. The most horryfying aspect being crunk and lord of shouting, Lil' Jon. It is a disease that needs to be rid ;)
On the other hand I never been that big a fan of hip hop/rap, I just don't see the appeal, especially american rap for some reason.
I enjoy grime to some extent and I like Dälek plus selected tracks by DJ Shadow, RJD2, Outkast and The Roots. The Danish mainstream rap scene is about as bad as anywhere else but I like Malk de Koijn and Bikstok Røgsystem(who are actually dancehall). And last but not least Goldie Lookin' Chain and MC Frontalot!
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and to the guy ^ who said T.I. - King... YESNO. There are a few song early on in the album that are KICKASS, but the album has dry patches where i find it totally boring. It's a pretty huge variety on the good meter.
And I can't possibly be the only guy who likes rap about sex guns and cars? It's not like I give two or three shtis about Conor Oberst's ex-girlfriend, so I can hardly see how the majority of music's content can be passed along, but rap music is cheap and horrible and should be demeritted because it's "mature" to rag on the lifestyle.
and since WHEN were ANY musicians rolemodels? if it isnt 50 cent singing about sex and drugs it's minus the bear singing about sex and drugs, or aerosmith singing about sex and drugs, or tori amos singing about sex and drugs. musician's lifestyles and image are NEVER good for rolemodels, so again, you can't dock rap for that.
yeah, obviously king isn't perfect. the rest of your post is spot on.
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I'll join the choir who dislike gangsta. I think the views they express through rapping are misguided and stupid. The message is what I have a problem with, to say that is akin to listening to a nazi band is a bit strong but I definitely disagree vehemently. Why? because I think it has a debasing effect, glorifying violence, degrading women, promoting ignorance etc. and the music isn't even that great. The most horryfying aspect being crunk and lord of shouting, Lil' Jon. It is a disease that needs to be rid ;)
On the other hand I never been that big a fan of hip hop/rap, I just don't see the appeal, especially american rap for some reason.
I enjoy grime to some extent and I like Dälek plus selected tracks by DJ Shadow, RJD2, Outkast and The Roots. The Danish mainstream rap scene is about as bad as anywhere else but I like Malk de Koijn and Bikstok Røgsystem(who are actually dancehall). And last but not least Goldie Lookin' Chain and MC Frontalot!
I'm going to quote some dizzee rascal for you
Yo If that girl know's where you stay thats poor
some whore banging on your door what for
pregnant? what're you talking about this for
fifteen, she's underage thats raw
and against law 5 years or more
and she wants a score and half of a draw
some kind of friend that you try and ignore
that whore got you pinned down to the floor
but its your own fault you said three magic words (i love you)
when thats the one for the birds
when you said that she forgot other boys
its over you better start buying the toys
there was no intention in front of your wife
that she knows this that she's ending your life
its a real shame you got hacked by the whores
its a real shame that kid probably aint yours
Outkast talk about guns, sex, and cars too
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My hip-hop collection is far from comprehensive; I tend to dip in and out of the genre when I'm looking for something different to listen to. So I'll just name some of my favourite albums (most of them really old):
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the 36 Chambers
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing (one of my favourite albums of all time, in any genre)
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low-End Theory
Nas - Illmatic
Roots - Do You Want More?!?!!/Things Fall Apart (think I prefer the more stripped-down, jazzy sound of the former though)
Mos Def & Talib Kweli - Black Star
De La Soul - 3 Feet High (really need to pick up more stuff by them)
Jurassic 5 - EP (which they've sadly recycled ad nauseum since)
Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt
Also like what I've heard by Aesop Rock and the other Def Jux artists.
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and since WHEN were ANY musicians rolemodels? if it isnt 50 cent singing about sex and drugs it's minus the bear singing about sex and drugs, or aerosmith singing about sex and drugs, or tori amos singing about sex and drugs. musician's lifestyles and image are NEVER good for rolemodels, so again, you can't dock rap for that.
Just because we don’t want them to be role models doesn’t mean they aren’t. Have you walked passed a high school lately? These kids are acting out the fantasies they see on TV. The other day I walked passed a group of kids who couldn’t have been more then twelve talking about the last bitch they fucked. These kids are in such a race to grow up that they’ll take on any idea of maturity that is pushed on them. Things aren’t in a good state when you become afraid to walk passed a group of high school kids. They just don’t understand that shit like that isn’t real. I know you live in Abbotsford so I assume you’ve heard of all the teenage shootings going on around here. It’s like they think it’s a game of Cops and Robbers and then get pissed off when consequences are forced upon them.
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Hip-Hop and Rap are genres I really SHOULD explore more. I really like Quasimoto, even though I only have one album by him- 'The Adventures Of Lord Quas', which is cool. And I liked one Outkast song I heard on the radio..."Sorry Ms. Jackson, I am for real", I think it went like. I should really grab that album.
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Nujabes
I love Nujabes. My favorite album is Metaphorical Music.
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Man, Outshined hasn't shown his face for a while.
Also, I'm shocked (shocked!) that no one has mentioned The Roots. Possibly the best hip-hop band (yes, I mean band, with instruments) ever, and I'm not even mentioning their AMAZING concerts. Also, no love for Little Brother? And to that guy who was dissing the Sugarhill Gang? Man, you've got to have respect for those who came before you. Hip-hop would have blown up eventually, but the Sugarhill Gang, sappy as they are, moved the genre into the mainstream, and furthered its evolution.
If all y'all want some real, knock your socks off hip hop check out the late eighties. When rock was near record sucking levels, the underground was exploding. Be sure to check out Eric B. & Rakim.
Also remember, mainstream rock sucks (cough Nickleback).
One other thing: no Wu-Tang?
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And to that guy who was dissing the Sugarhill Gang? Man, you've got to have respect for those who came before you. Hip-hop would have blown up eventually, but the Sugarhill Gang, sappy as they are, moved the genre into the mainstream, and furthered its evolution.
Cross-over potential in and of itself doesn't really matter if you don't like the music.
Eric B. & Rakim.
awesome
Also remember, mainstream rock sucks (cough Nickleback).
bad comparision. what mainstream might lack in pure "lyrical complexity" (not that I buy that entirely, mind you) mainstream hip hop producers are really making some of the best, diverse, and sonically innovative beats around. that level of innovation is really hard to find in mainstream rock or even indie rock because of boths obsession with the past. not to say that there aren't exceptions obv
One other thing: no Wu-Tang?
no one does it better
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Guru! Us-3! Manau!
Basically ... I can't stand Hip-Hop unless it's mixed with other stuff ....
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What was wrong with rock in the late 80's?
Nothing, I'll venture, worse than what was wrong with it in the early nineties.
Besides, viewing music as split simply into a rock camp and a rap camp is a little, well, 12 years old...
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I totally agree doing that is a bit immature. It's totally ignoring groups like Flipsyde and Body Count and the Beastie Boys who do amazing stuff.
Also, about late eighties rock, just a personal opinion. There was definitly good- even great- rock going on then, and here I am thinking of the Pixies. I just feel that at that point the glam/hair metal had evolved into something similar to that blob creature from Ghostbusters 2.
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I like:
Blackalicious
Sage Francis
POS
The Crest (Minneapoliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssss!)
The Me and You Crew (straight outta Fargo)
Atmosphere
Carnage
Public Enemy (even their new album is delightful)
Run-DMC (but not DMC solo)
whoever said Why? is totally right! I think Elephant Eyelash was EASILY the best album of 05.
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It's more totally ignoring the fantastic number of other styles of music that exist...
Running Wild - Under Jolly Roger, Ready for Boarding and Death or Glory, Judas Priest - Ram It Down and Painkiller, Bathory - Under the Sign of the Black Mark, Sabbat - History of a Time to Come and Dreamweaver, Venom - Prime Evil, Swans - Children of God....Meh, rock was doing fine from my perspective. As with rap, you have to look beneath the surface. Although, as I've said before, I'd take hair metal over grunge any day.
There really must be something hip-hoppish out there acceptable to me. Excepting Skindred, Bad Brains, some world and a few dub acts I've started to get into, my last.fm chart is hideously white, culturally
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Just because we don’t want them to be role models doesn’t mean they aren’t...
I was simply saying that rap isn't the only genre with influence over teens. we can't forget the goth kid who shot up columbine, etc. teenagers will do stupid violent irrational things when they are fucked up, rap music and marilyn manson dont fuck kids up.
Also, I'm shocked (shocked!) that no one has mentioned The Roots. Possibly the best hip-hop band (yes, I mean band, with instruments) ever, and I'm not even mentioning their AMAZING concerts.
Cypress Hill would like a word with you, though I'm a little bit of a sucker for classic albums.
more recommendations in the old-school strain:
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Redman - Dare Iz A Darkside
Wu-tang Clan - Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
Cypress Hill - Self Titled.
edit- vv it was more of an example, but the moral of the story is that industrial/nu-metal/whateverthefuckpeoplesaymansonmakes kills children. that's the important thing.
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Just because, you know, I like bringing this point up, did you know neither of the Columbine shooters actually owned a single Manson album, or ever expressed a liking for him? Their favourite bands were actually KMFDM and Rammstein, (they quoted the lyrics to 'Son of a Gun' and 'Weisses Fleisch' in direct reference to the shooting, hideously misinterpreting both). No one is actually quite sure when Manson was introduced. I saw one paranoid fucker suggest it was a mind-control meme...
So, er, hip hop...
...I know this is a real long shot, but has anyone got any Rare Form tracks? The fucker deleted his myspace. 'Death to the World' was maybe the only hip-hop (Well, apocalyp-hop...) song I've ever managed to develop any serious affection for.
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When Gangster Hip-Hop goes good:
Wu-Tang Clan. And solo stuff. 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords, Only built 4 Cuban Linx at the very least.
Mobb Deep - The Infamous. GOD DAMN.
Black Moon
Smif n Wessun
Some of the best Hip-Hop albums ever.
Given that there are pretty extensive lists already, I'll just rep some local shit. UK Hip-Hop is pretty damn awesome.
Jehst, Lowkey, Taskforce, Klashnekoff, Phi Life Cypher, Brain Tax, Skinny Man. All good.
Given the Crunk and Gangster hate, this is a long shot, but does anyone listen to Grime? It's 99.9% violence and drugs and stuff, and the lyrical complexity is... low. But the energy! Oh. Not the best home listening, but nuts in a dance.
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Man, you forgot N.W.A! Straight Outta Compton is easily, in my book at least, one of the greatest albums ever made, right up there with Pet Sounds.
And grime? Hell yeah! I know he's not exactly it, but god I love Dizee Rascal. FIX UP LOOK SHARP.
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i have to say, i usually cue up "Still" by the Geto Boys whenever i'm feeling particularly misanthropic.
BACK UP IN YOUR ASS WITH THE RESURRECTION.
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damn it feels good to be a gangsta...
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I kinda like Jurassic 5.
By that I mean, I like J5 a lot, but I'm sort of embarrassed to admit. It seems like people who know a lot about rap kinda look down on that kind of "backpacker shit." I dunno, I still like to listen to it.
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No doubt, NWA and Geto Boys are pretty much awesome, but I... I don't know really, should have put them on my lil list.
Dizzee is Grime, but it's true that he is kinda different to most of it. Man got skillz though, no doubt about it. Newham Generals are on his label, they got an album called 'generally speaking' out in a while, should be heavy.
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Necro & Ill Bill are pretty awesome and listen to grindgore and shit like that. Street Villains Vol 1. is worth checking out. Though he has a lisp, which can be distracting.
and I didnt really know there was much J5 hate out there, weird. I dig em, but don't actively spin em every day.
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RJD2 is awesome beyond belief. I also like some Deltron. I really do need to get into hip-hop more, though.
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing (one of my favourite albums of all time, in any genre)
YES.
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one more thing about gangsta rap- est. earlier mentioned Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, considered the godfathers of political rap. Gangsta rap has at times (while certainly not always) has taken this mantle of political rap after it destroyed it via N.W.A and Dr. Dre (although they both advocated for political reasons on a rare occasion, these guys are as nihilist as Nietzsche). Here I'm mainly thinking of the greatest rapper of all time- 2PAC. There's a reason his stuff is used in poetry class- it's amazing. I would HIGHLY recommend "Brenda's Got A Baby" and "Wonder Why They Call You Bitch". Listen and be amazed.
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I will never under any light enjoy Tupac's music =/
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Man, stop drinking all that Haterade. Give me one good reason why you won't listen to Pac.
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Because Pac is wack?
Notorious BIG 4 lyfe, yo. In that particular feud anyway. Generally East Coast 4 lyfe, in fact. Or Dirty Sowf.
Normal spelling will now resume.
Oh, and one good serious reason? I just really don't like ANY of his songs. I've heard a fair few as well. I've really tried.
Edit:
(http://www.synthtopia.com/synth_review/synth_images/tr909.jpg)
909 Posts, motherbitches!
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You gotta hand it to a guy who's more prolific posthumously than most people are that are still alive.
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EDIT: Okay I tried to post a picture but I don't really know what I'm doing. So just to sum up WEST SIDE FOR LIFE.
Also, I think we all know that Tupac is in a better place now. And by better place I mean CUBA!
Biggie has amazing flow, but better than Pac? Absolutely not. Listen to Ready to Die and then listen to All Eyez on Me. You'll see.
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I've been diggin on some Lightheaded lately. They're not bad, but I'm more partial to the East Coast/New York style.
Any of you heard Out the Gate by DC and Termanology? Production wise it's pretty good. Termanology isn't a great rapper though, and by "not a great rapper" I mean "makes Kanye West look like Rakim."
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and if you listen to the rest of the album (I put secret house as my best of 05)
Totally bought it. And saw him at the Regina Folk Fest. I'm not trying to be a dick here either, but I have listened to old Buck and new Buck. I know it's different from the Centaur and it's not traditional hip-hop but it's still light-years seperate from Woody Guthrie-esque talking blues (which is what Buck professes to idolize). The scratches in "Road House Blues"? The stomping chorus of "Blanc-Bec"? The entire song "Kennedy Killed The Hat"? The coda of "The Floor"? Hip-hop, mang.
EDIT: Also, I disagree with your assessment of "Drawing Curtains" as being not even close to hip-hop. I don't know what you would classify it as if not as hip-hop; avant-garde, jazz-informed hip-hop, but hip-hop nonetheless.
But, this is off-topic and I don't want to start an unneccessary battle with someone who clearly knows his stuff about the hip-hop rap. So, on topic, did I mention Jay-Z is deadly? Also, for pure everything-wrong-with-rap check out Straight Outta Motherfuckin' Compton (I think that's how it's spelled) by Eazy-E. "Fuck My Baby's Momma," with a twenty second shout of "you biiiiiiiiiiiiiitch" is easily the misogynistic highlight.
Oh, and I like me some crunk and grime in small, dance-related doses. YYYYEAH!
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(Dre can go fuck himself, though)
Dre is a badass producer. don't like a man cause he makes some money going commercial? o well.
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Man, Outshined hasn't shown his face for a while.
I'm still here.
In regards to musicians being bad role models, with songs about sex and violence: Yeah, it's true that basically every band does that. But it is the context and the intent behind the words that is important: rock bands usually gripe about how bad drugs messed them up or whatever, essentially discouraging listeners from doing the same thing. Rap, on the other hand, glorifies drug usage as a lifestyle. (The get drunk and bang mentality). I'm sure there are some rock bands just as bad, but with mainstream rap that is almost a necessary component in a popular song; how messed up is that?
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dre love
I think his producing is overrated.
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Man, Outshined hasn't shown his face for a while.
I'm still here.
In regards to musicians being bad role models, with songs about sex and violence: Yeah, it's true that basically every band does that. But it is the context and the intent behind the words that is important: rock bands usually gripe about how bad drugs messed them up or whatever, essentially discouraging listeners from doing the same thing. Rap, on the other hand, glorifies drug usage as a lifestyle. (The get drunk and bang mentality). I'm sure there are some rock bands just as bad, but with mainstream rap that is almost a necessary component in a popular song; how messed up is that?
This depends on interpretation. I can listen to a rock star ranting about their drug abuse and think "Goddamn, he's a fucking rock star, what he does must be cool" and voila, the rock star is advocating drug use to me. I can listen to a rap star doing the same and think "Well, I certainly don't want to end up like him, better stay away" and said rap star is suddenly an anti-drug figure. I think a lot (not all, because there is definitely more intentional glorification of this stuff in rap than there is in rock nowadays ... but a lot) of people's problems with rap is that they percieve glorification when it's really an ambiguous message, and I've got a hunch that this is usually the result of a bias. That's OK, we've all got our biases, but I would shy away from objectively judging rap in this fashion, because if you listen to a lot of it with the intention of hearing an ambiguous message, I think you'll find a lot more of them than you did previously.
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In my college square yesterday there were bands playing, and there were these two guys rapping etc, and I was incredibly impressed. I have nothing against rap, just never found anything to get into.
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Outshined wrote...
I'm still here.
That's good to hear, man. Have you checked out an of the numerous artists that have been mentioned here? If you'd like anti-violent good rap, I'd recommend (just off the top of my head) Common, MF Doom (who goes by different names, most recently Danger Doom), Mos Def, The Roots, and Public Enemy. You also might like Flipsyde, they have good latin-sounding guitars. I'd love to hear what you think of any of those artists, or any other one you choose to listen to, for that matter.
By the way, I'm considering writing a paper called N.W.A: Nihilism Wit Attitude. It would be about the elements of nihilism within Straight Outta Compton.
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http://www.whoa-b.com/audio/whoa-b_-_welcome_to_grimerock.mp3
Whoa-B - Welcome to Grimerock
Sweet DJ set, mixes in some grime, and a little crunk and dancehall
has my favorite grime track, Roll Deep - When I'm 'ere
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I'm into a few artists/bands people have already mentioned. Some being Blackalicious, Roots Manuva, Beastie Boys, Outkast, The Lab Rats and Danger Doom.
That being said, i'm more into DJ's and turntableists which encorporate hip-hop and general mash-uppery. Artists which get muchos love from me would be..
DJ Shadow
David Jack
DJ Spooky
Coldcut
Quantic
DJ Kentaro
Cassette Boy
Kid Koala
The Kleptones
Go Home Productions
Bikini Bandits
Kid Acne
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You want some recommendations? Listen to "Teacher" by Daft Punk, haha!
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I was scanning through the pages here...I'm a bit saddened that no one has mentioned DJ Krush, as he's one of the all time greatest producers. His album with Toshinori Kondo is legendary.
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Legendary, eh? I might look that up. I've only got one song by DJ Krush (With Grace), which is floating around my MP3 player, but i liked what i heard.
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My impression of "Crunk" is that it's what happens when white kids from suburban Northern California get ahold of a Playskool keyboard and hit the same three keys repeatedly. Maybe it's dance music for people who don't know how to DANCE. Fuckin kids love it here. Not to repeat the sam thing...but there's so much better stuff out there.
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rock bands usually gripe about how bad drugs messed them up or whatever, essentially discouraging listeners from doing the same thing.
You obviously have not listened to Hawkwind lately.
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KRS-ONE.
Discuss.
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One and three quarter thumbs up.
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For the few hip-hop artists that I listen to, I consider there to be a difference between rap and rap music. I enjoy rap once in a while - G-Unit, Dr. Dre, Eminem, etc. - but the stuff I listen to more often is the actual music. This is stuff like Kanye West, Pretty Ricky, and even Tupac just because he has more interesting beats behind his lyrics.
Also, I'm going to mention John Legend. He doesn't rap but he's more towards the R&B genre and is absolutely amazing.
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Wierd question: Is Nujabes a rapper or a DJ?
The only Nujabes I know of did the music for an anime called Samurai Champloo. I love the music so I was just curious...
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See, I feel Eminem is the epitome of a fault-line artist- an artist who straddle both sides of the game effortlessly. It's a shame he wants to be so silly/misoginistic/bad, but when he wants to he can be amazing. Listen to his tracks off the 8 Mile soundtrack, they are amazingly self-reflective.
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Ignore previous question, I found a wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nujabes
wikiwiki!
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I highly recommend the following:
The Roots
A Tribe Called Quest
Eyedea and Abilities (insanely talented MC and DJ combo)
Atmosphere
Kanye West
N.W.A.
Mos Def
Plus most of the other stuff mentioned.
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if any of you guys like mashups, then check this out:
http://members.home.nl/supermiep/Disfunctional_DJ_-_You're_The_One_That_I_Want_In_The_Next_Episode.mp3
It's a remix of a song from Grease and Dr. Dre!!
Yeah, it's awesome.
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Nooo! Enough of the mashups! It already went too far with Tunnels/My Humps, aka "Hump my Tunnel".
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I must say I do like me some atmosphere. thats about it though. though honestly i never gave much more a chance.
EDIT: mashups or whatever they are called pretty much always suck. (in my opinion, of course)
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A few mashups I've heard have been incredible. Lie Big Shot by Billy Joel vs. Big Pimpin' by Jay-z. Hilarious and incredible.
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Some mashups can be great.
The Q TV show did some great stuff. Bootylicious vs. Smells Like Teen Spirit was great, but even better was Ray Of Light vs. Pretty Vacant/God Save The Queen.
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I have no problems with them rapping about sex and violence, it's just the way that they do it. Most of the artists on my list (and probably on others, too) do address gangsta elements, but they try to do it in a way that doesn't seek to glorify and promote it. (the obvious exceptions in my list would be Ice Cube & NWA).
Most rap that I've heard talks about some kind of social problem. To use an example I wrote a while ago, if given the choice I'll take say:
Grandmaster Flash, The Message:
"Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just don’t care
I can’t take the smell, I can’t take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie’s in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn’t get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car"
over Ludacris from Chingy's Holiday Inn:
"Stop, drop, KABOOM!, baby rub on ya nipples
Some call me Ludacris, some call me Mr. Wiggles
Far from little, make ya mammary glands giggle
Got 'em under control, the bowl of tender biddles"
or 50 Cent from "P.I.M.P" :
"I told you fools before, I stay with the tools
I keep a Benz, some rims, and some jewels
I holla at a hoe til I got a bitch confused
She got on Payless, me I got on gator shoes "
It's like, the people at the bottom aren't getting the airplay any more, it's more the cocks at the top who are making money just bragging about it & telling people that they can do it too if they just push drugs to their friends and neighbours & rent out their girlfriends as whores. That's not the kind of message that should be given airplay.
I understand though that it's as much a problem with society as it is with hip hop in itself. There's a market for this shit because everyone's become more self-centred and materialistic. But then that's a conversation for another time, on another board.
http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Hopeless-lyrics-Ludacris/CA86348B80AB2EF948256F5F0008927D
That's a Ludacris song, and right about now you look like a moron.
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I was scanning through the pages here...I'm a bit saddened that no one has mentioned DJ Krush, as he's one of the all time greatest producers. His album with Toshinori Kondo is legendary.
Krush is amazing. Though I wouldn't go for 'songs' so much as 'albums.' I really liked Code 4109 (ok, so it wasn't his best, but damn entertaining). and Kakusei is tasty stuff. Jaku's good, in it's own way, though I'm admittedly a bit burned out on it.
And have you seen video of the man perform? He's so zen. Practically one with the turntable. Coolest man alive.
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http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Hopeless-lyrics-Ludacris/CA86348B80AB2EF948256F5F0008927D
That's a Ludacris song, and right about now you look like a moron.
Uh. What? I assume your point is that Ludacris also does songs with more depth than "rub on your nipples etc". That's great. How exactly does that make Est a moron? He just said he'd rather listen to the lyrics from The Message than the ones from Holiday Inn. Which seems fair enough to me.
On a more positive vibe, Krush live is pretty much the best turntablism you'll ever see. Fuck sily body tricks and fancy beat juggles, that man really does make the turntable an instrument.
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I suggest emody and est enter a freestyle rap battle.
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And have you seen video of the man perform? He's so zen. Practically one with the turntable. Coolest man alive.
I actually saw him perform live, And were it not for the unbelievably cheesy crowd, I'd say it was probably the third best hip hop DJ/Producerset I've ever seen (though I've seen better turntablists, in terms of blending and creating sounds with just the records this was aces).
Not that you asked, but the performances in order:
5. Coldcut
4. DJ Food & DK: Solid Steel tour
3. DJ Krush
2. RJD2 (see his live set if you can...it's just awesome)
1. DJ Andy Smith (Seriously, anyone who can go from Barry White to Tom Jones to the Young Black Teenagers without skipping a beat or batting an eye wins).
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Speaking of DJ's, I gots me two words: Afrika Bambattaa. AMAZING.
Looking for the perfect beat...and he came damn close.
Also, one problem DJs have today is that everybody puts scratchs into their songs! Argh! Like NWA said back in Straight Outta Compton, right after a in-track scratch: Man that's wack, everybody does that.
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Few things I wanna say:
1) I think est has been pretty spot-on with what he's saying.
2) T.I. is an amazing lyricist.
wut u know about dat
wut u know about dat
wut u know about dat
i know all about dat[/list:u] wait... nope, I was wrong.
3) Someone mentioned crunk being big up here in NorCal... but to tell the truth, hyphy music is WAY more popular.
Just look at how E-40's new record is doing... since hyphy is a NorCal creation, kids relate to it more, so it's pretty huge up here. That said, as far as hip-hop goes, it still has too many of the same negative messages... *sigh*
4) re: hip-hop vs. rock -
The main difference between their influences is a matter of connection and relation. With rock, we may connect to the lyrics or music, but it's not necessarily a reflection of the rock star's life, i.e. we don't relate to the rock star lifestyle. None of us ever looked at Motley Crue or GNR or U2 and said "I identify with their life story - they came from the same place where I came from." The whole "rock star lifestyle" is meant to be a fantasy, and not meant to be reality-based or at all true-to-life.
With hip-hop, not only does the art puport to be true-to-life, but a lot of the artists are coming from the same situations that their target audience comes from: inner city, bad neighborhoods, little money, often no father (NOT stereotyping - it's actually a big problem in the Black community). So a lot of inner-city Black kids see these rappers as role models - someone who comes from the same situation and made it - and with a lack of a father figure (for some, not all), the influence is even stronger. For we adults who choose to do so, we can see gangsta rap as an "artistic choice" and not take it so literally.
So with the younger kids who see the rap game as a way to make it out of the ghetto, it's more seen being closer to reality, and with little other surrounding influence encouraging them to become educated and become more than they are, they're much more likely to emulate that gangsta lifestyle.
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Don’t mean to start an argument here, but what about the hundreds of rock artists who don’t play up the rock star lifestyle and who make songs relevant to their target audience? There are a lot of them you know.
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What about nerdcore?
It is obvious I think that there were overall generalisations being made there. He's talking about the mainstream.
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Indeed - there were generalizations being made about rock, as there were about rap, that were necessary to make a point. I'm basically just talking about what's "popular" right now, mainstream stuff. As this thread has shown, gangsta rap is by no means representative of rap as a genre - it's simply what's selling right now.
In terms of connecting to and influencing an audience, I think rap music has something over other genres. Throughout much of its history, it's told the stories of the downtrodden, the stories of inner-city Black people and what they have to go through and experience, something that wasn't represented in the music world. To have music that finally relates to your situation, something you can really connect to on a basic level, is pretty rare, and so is quite powerful.
What I'm trying to get across is kind of difficult to explain. For most Black people growing up, pretty much every medium - television, movies, music, even print - was dominated by the majority culture. Basically, you have to imagine looking around and seeing hardly who looks like you, who's had similar experiences as you - trust me, it's an alienating experience. That alienation, combined with frustrations about inner city life, was part of what brought rap music around in the first place. To finally see your people making songs about your situation and the problems you face -- problems that America wants to ignore and sweep under the rug -- and seeing it in a musical style that you can call your own - that's heady stuff. Giving voice to the voiceless - that's what made rap so powerful.
That power and influence is still present in the inner cities of America. Most inner-city Black kids are pretty much listening to hip-hop as their main genre. The problem is that now the messages of the mainstream acts are all about sex and drugs. I'm not saying that rock hasn't been the same way (again, Motley Crue, GNR), but the way it's told is way different.
The Crue never explicitly said "I sold drugs on my way to the top, it's how I got quick money" - many gangsta rappers, on the other hand (Biggie, Jay-Z, 50 Cent, WC, just to name a few) have essentially said that exact thing. And the kids hearing this are seeing the drug dealers every day, driving around in Benz's and BMW's, so it's just getting into their heads even more that dealing drugs is a great way to get easy money. Never mind that it's also a great way to get DEAD.... Without getting into all of it, the main problem is the glorification of those problems (drugs, violence) which are plaguing the inner cities. And don't even get me started on the misogyny... "boys will be boys" is one thing, but rock music was never as overtly explicit and derogatory as mainstream rap has become.
Of course, there are lots more factors involved on many different sides of the issue, but i'm trying to keep it relatively short (LOL). So yeah, that's why rap so damned influential.
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the rap from "Holiday Inn"
I just realized that, really, this isn't a great example. Consider Kanye West's "Diamonds From Sierra Leone" remix. The following is an excerpt from Kanye's verse:
...these ain't 'Conflict Diamonds'
Is they Jacob? Don't lie to me, man
See, a part of me say keep shinin'
How? When I know what a 'Blood Diamond' is
Though it's thousands of miles away
Sierra Leone connected to what we go through today
Over here, it's a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets, the charms-es
I thought my Jesus piece was so harmless
'Til I seen a picture of a shorty armless
And consider Jay Z's guest rap:
The chain remains, the game is intact
The name is mine, I'll take the blame for that
The pressure's on, but guess who ain't gon' crack?
Pardon me, I had to laugh at that
How could you falter, when you the Rock of Gibraltar
I had to get off the boat, so I could walk on water
This ain't no tall order, this is nothing to me
Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week
I do this in my sleep
I sold kilos of coke, I'm guessin' I could sell CDs
I'm not a business-man, I'm a business, man!
So as you can see, guest raps are probably statistically poor places to typically cull socially conscious rap from. Jay-Z had plenty of opportunity to Say Something there but he ignored it. And frankly, that rap is killer, although the Jesus comparison has nothing to do with the rest of the song.
I understand the argument has nothing to do, really, with "Holiday Inn," but rather the values Luda espouses (or fails to) therein. However, I just wanted to point this out.
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this thread is fucking infuriating. I hope all the same people who are up in arms about the violent/sexual messages in mainstream hip hop say the same when discussing pre-war blues.
I'll just quote a little Mississippi John Hurt:
here's your sexual hip hop candy metaphor:
Well all you ladies gather 'round
That good sweet candy man's in town
It's the candy man
It's the candy man
He likes a stick of candy just nine inch long
He sells as fast a hog can chew his corn
It's the candy man...
All heard what sister Johnson said
She always takes a candy stick to bed
Don't stand close to the candy man
He'll leave a big candy stick in your hand
He sold some candy to sister Bad
The very next day she took all he had
If you try his candy, good friend of mine,
you sure will want it for a long long time
His stick candy don't melt away
It just gets better, so the ladies say
misogynistic macho violent hip hop:
Ain't nobody's dirty business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but mine
Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but my own
Some of these mornin's, gonna wake up crazy
Gonna grab my gun and kill my baby
Nobody's business but mine
Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but my own
Some of these mornin's gonna wake up boozy
Gonna grab my gun, gonna kill old Suzie
Ain't nobody's business but mine
Goin' back to Pensacola, goin' to buy my babe a money moulder
Nobody's business but my own
Say babe, did you get that letter?
Would you take me back, I'll treat you better?
Nobody's business but mine
Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but my own
Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but my own
Some of these mornin's, goin' to wake up crazy
Gonna grab my gun, gonna kill my baby
Nobody's business but mine
Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but my own
Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
Nobody's business but my own
Story telling gansta rap:
Mrs. Collins weeped, Mrs. Collins moaned,
to see her son Louis leavin' home
The angels laid him away
The angels laid him away,
they laid him six feet under the clay
The angels laid him away
Mrs. Collins weeped, Mrs. Collins moaned,
to see her son Louis leavin' home
The angels laid him away
Oh, Bob shot once and Louis shot too,
shot poor Collins, shot him through and through
The angels laid him away
Oh, kind friends, oh, ain't it hard?,
to see poor Louis in a new graveyard
The angels laid him away
The angels laid him away,
they laid him six feet under the clay
The angels laid him away
Oh, when they heard that Louis was dead
all the people they dressed in red
The angels laid him away
These are far from the exception. Bessie Smith sings about shooting her man with a "fourty-four" if he cheats on her. Here's some John Lee Hooker "Look man, I told you one time before
But this time, I'm gonna teach you,
a little lesson, you won't forget
Take this man, right down by, the riverside
I might drown you,
I might shoot you,
I don't know
gonna tie your hands, gonna tie your feet
gag you so you can't talk to nobody
I'm mad, rrrrr, I'm mad with you
you're sinkin', I'm mad"
I'll wait for the chorus of people who say that's only "pop blues" and that they only listen to the underground socially conscious blues.
I would probably not be bothered if people were just like "I don't dig the sound" but there was a lot of
Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes? Yeah, I think that was the one.
He's right about mainstream hip-hop, though. Bitches, ho's, blunts, big pimpin', candy shops, Polaroid pictures.
and
I'll join the choir who dislike gangsta. I think the views they express through rapping are misguided and stupid. The message is what I have a problem with, to say that is akin to listening to a nazi band is a bit strong but I definitely disagree vehemently. Why? because I think it has a debasing effect, glorifying violence, degrading women, promoting ignorance etc. and the music isn't even that great. The most horryfying aspect being crunk and lord of shouting, Lil' Jon. It is a disease that needs to be rid ;)
in this thread
I mean those were the blantantly bad responses. A lot of people who responded were like "no that's just mainstream rap" "you're so close-minded when you say that; you should listen to old school, indie, and backpacker rap" without the slightest hint of irony.
This depends on interpretation. I can listen to a rock star ranting about their drug abuse and think "Goddamn, he's a fucking rock star, what he does must be cool" and voila, the rock star is advocating drug use to me. I can listen to a rap star doing the same and think "Well, I certainly don't want to end up like him, better stay away" and said rap star is suddenly an anti-drug figure. I think a lot (not all, because there is definitely more intentional glorification of this stuff in rap than there is in rock nowadays ... but a lot) of people's problems with rap is that they percieve glorification when it's really an ambiguous message, and I've got a hunch that this is usually the result of a bias. That's OK, we've all got our biases, but I would shy away from objectively judging rap in this fashion, because if you listen to a lot of it with the intention of hearing an ambiguous message, I think you'll find a lot more of them than you did previously.
I agree with most of your points, except I'm less "okay" with peoples biases. my bias is that if you like music you should be open minded about it, not one of those "OMG i liek everything but [mainstream] country and [mainstream] rap" people
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i thought i would resurrect this thread to see if anyone here listens to Haiku D'etat. i have been listening to them alot lately and really enjoy it, so i thought i'd see what you guys thought about them.
for the record, the group consists of aceylone, mikah 9, and abstract rude.
good stuff.
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Busdriver.
Juggaknots.
They're the only two I haven't seen just by skimming over this, although I'm sure they've been at least mentioned.
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I like you, Jose.
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Ok... i don't listen to any rap besides like Eminem, Buck 65, and Sage Francis (and even that not much). I've heard a bit of stuff, like early stuff and what little i hear when i'm accidently exposed to mainstream music... but i'm just not into it.
What would you guys recomend? I don't even like the Beastie boys... Kanye is pretty cool, i guess. i'm more of a classic rock/indie pop/twee kinda dude
there must be SOMETHING i'd like, since i need to broaden my horizons. anyone writing raps about sweaters and girls who read books?
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I love it when people point to "The Message" as how old-school rap used to be, like all rap back in the day was socially-conscious and had a point. Rap, and hip-hop, began as party music. Yes yes y'all, throw your hands in the air, block party soundtracks. Then a record executive convinced Grandmaster Flash that a song about inner-city poverty would explode rap to new heights, and lo, it did. Now it's like hip-hop history begins with "The Message" and ignores all the sample-heavy, funk-based, post-disco party records that the genre was built on.
The point is, there has always been good hip-hop and bad hip-hop, whether mainstream or indie. Ignore the bad, enjoy the good, and stop blacklisting the genre as a whole just because the latest crunk single on the charts drives you nuts.
What would you guys recomend? I don't even like the Beastie boys... Kanye is pretty cool, i guess. i'm more of a classic rock/indie pop/twee kinda dude
Just listen to a hip-hop station for a while and see if anything clicks with you, or check out the genre selections on iTunes. I've discovered most of my favorite hip-hop/R&B songs by accident.
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The only hip-hop/rap group I've really been able to get into is Public Enemy. I actually started listening to them about a year after I started listening to punk, and they meshed really well with it. I've actually seen a couple of punk authors call It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back a punk record, and I kind of agree. It's political, it's angry, and it's fun to listen to.
I did have my doubts about PE after learning about their dalliances with Nation of Islam and S1W, but Chuck D seems to have parted with those groups (as far as I know) so my concience can remain clean on that one.