THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: ampersandwitch on 19 Feb 2007, 18:01
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Ah. I cannot believe how precocious this website is, and I bet this is just me being hella crotchety, but, Jesus, kids these days!
The radio interview is mostly the most inflammatory. If you want to rip your hair out for approximately half an hour, I believe it is, it's pretty much the worst.
http://www.blackoutband.com/ (http://www.blackoutband.com/)
Good god. I cannot believe that whoever wrote that fucking website even dared to call them "progressive." The fuck?
Please tell me I'm not alone on this one. Give the song a listen, and vent.
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It's easy to get pissed off at stuff like this. As much as I hate kids, I hate the people who exploit them at that impressionable young age much, much more. But Jesus, I could sing better than that when I was eleven. The thing is, those kids are gonna be really good musicians when they get older, which really pisses me off, because they'll end up being some virtuoso Fallout Boy band.
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I was reading the lyrics to their song, Video game:
Ohhhhhhhhhhh.......
I don't wanna go to school
Just wanna be a fool
Just wanna play video games
Everything else is really lame
Just wanna play video games
Just wanna play video games
Just wanna play video games
All the time and every day
Parents say it's frying my brain
Just because I can't remember my name
Just wanna play video games
All the time and every day
Just wanna play video games
Just wanna play video games
Just wanna play video games
All the time, every day
when I realized something
it was basically the new age version of The Replacements I Hate Music:
I hate music
Sometimes I don't
I hate music
It's got too many notes
I hate my high school
Sometimes I went
I hate music, man
Never heaven sent
Tommy says so
Tommy says so
Tommy says so
Tommy says so so so so what
point is, distort their guitars and I am pretty set
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that made me want to die. i know that they're kids and all, and i was kind of impressed by that little riff that one kid played, i probably couldn't play it. but honestly, i would take Patrick Stump's vocals over that kid's. :\
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MAKE IT STOP.
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those guys are only a better drummer, so-so base lines, and angsty lyrics away from being Nirvana.
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I'm not going to click the link to save myself, but if it is what I think it is, Slytherin (a band from the Chicago-land area) did the whole "we're kids and we can rock as hard as anyone" thing. They sucked. I accidentally saw them live once (I was supporting a friend who was in a bad numetal band and apperantly they were playing with Slytherin). Their dad or something did the mic check for the singer, and the kid (literally, he looked about 12) came out "triumphantly" when the band struck the first chord of the set. I thought it was a joke. I was proven wrong by 30 minutes of hell.
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that made me want to kill myself, and I must've only watched the first minute. :-(
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I played the song in the video on the page and I've decided that I would rather spend the rest of my life as a trans-sexual scat porn star than ever listen to this band for any extended period of time.
The ending to the main riff was pretty righteous, though. Then again, it's a bad omen when the only thing you have to look forward to in somebody's work is the end.
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ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
in other news it's funny because the guitar is bigger than he is
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i hate shit bands with rich parents.
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You know, I haven't listened to it, and I probably won't, but let them have their fun. They're going to grow up some day and hopefully realize they looked pretty dumb, but hey, they'll probably be pretty good musicians by then, and I'm glad someone is encouraging them to play now and write about what they know.
As for self importance, I challenge each and everyone of you to prove to me that you weren't a self-important pretentious little fucker as a tweener and teenager, and if you think you aren't, you most likely are and will realize it once you get older. I find it hilarious that a seventeen year old started this thread (if the information in your profile is correct) when at that age your brain hasn't developed to the point where you can realize that you're being a self-important fucker yourself.
Think, then post.
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Daniel, the problem with the band isn't the kids, it's the people who decided it would be a great idea to market them at this point. They're a kid band. Let them have fun, but don't force them to do anything. They shouldn't be publicized at that young age, at least not by their parents or gym coach. If they are really serious about the band, they should continue to play until they know how to market themselves.
The thing is, those parents are forcing an image on their kids. Those kids may live another five to seven years and realize that they hate corporate America and really want to have an experimental band on Touch and Go, not some gimmicky rock band on a major label making music videos all the time. Of course, in all likelihood they'll just grow accustomed to their lives as soulless teenage-anthem makers. It's really sad, but these kids are victims of circumstance.
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Because parents don't ever do anything to mold their children ever? I mean other than child-rearing. If these kids are victims then I would think that makes all children are victims. That you can pretend to know their wishes is astonishing and presumptuous, and implying age has something to do with marketing skills is laughable at best.
Personally, if I had a child who said "Hey, we've got a band and some songs, would you mind helping us get some exposure" and I had the means, I'd be more than happy to help. Their image has little to do with what their parents are doing or the marketing, but rather the material their writing, and judging by the content and simplicity, they're writing it on their own. Simply because what they know now isn't what they'll know in five years does not make them illegitimate. Especially because, in five to seven years they may have that experimental band, five years after that, when they're in their in their mid-to-early twenties they'll realize how damn pretentious that was, and maybe start something new.
Or maybe they'll start selling teenagers their own rebellion back to them.
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That you can pretend to know their wishes is astonishing and presumptuous, and implying age has something to do with marketing skills is laughable at best.
I did not pretend to know their wishes. I speculated. Kids tend to live with what they're given, even if they bitch about it to their parents. So if they have the opportunity to become rich MTV poster boys they're probably going to do that.
As to your point about rearing children, yes I am aware parents mold their children. I usually disagree with how they do it, but there is a sensible way to go about child-rearing.
"All children are victims." To an extent, yes. Children are products of their parents, and when their parents want to force their children to do something they didn't do is when it gets really sad. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be presumtuous. That may not be the case with these kids and their parents. Their intentions could be entirely noble. However, unless their parents just have money to throw away on lavish music videos, all evidence suggests otherwise.
". . .they may start something new." Of course. But when they have lots of money coming in, the personal rewards for being your own person may be horribly distorted. You're not likely to change when you're financially comfortable.
I know this happens all the time. It doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it, though.
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Most people tend to change what they're doing if they're unhappy in their present circumstances, money notwithstanding, unless they have responsibilities that don't allow for it, like having children of their own. In which case it's called being responsible.
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money notwithstanding
We're probably just not going to see eye to eye here.
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I watched the video on mute, and was filled with an underwhelming sense of "meh." These kids are no different than any of the glut of "Disney TV Pop Princesses" that seem to be springing up by the hundreds. It's extra-thick sugar water packaged in an "edgy rock and roll shell" that can make tweens feel like they're rebelling against something, and not upset the parents too badly. So what. If nothing else, they'll make great material for me to do another hilarious remix, right?
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We're probably just not going to see eye to eye here.
I think you have a very simplistic and childish understanding of humanity, adulthood, and financial responsibility. You strike me as a kid being all angry at the system and rebellious, but you lack the experience or education to understand the nuances of the system your angry at.
Further, being a rich MTV poster boy and being unhappy don't go hand in hand, nor does the ability to change styles or career paths with lack financial well being. In fact I'd go so far as to say that often the networking one does in the unhappy situation makes it much easier to jump ship when you're ready to strike it out in your own direction.
If you want a decent mainstream music example, simply look at P!nk. She was very much unhappy with the results of Can't Take Me Home because she had relinquished creative control of the album and her image. However, that album had built her the network that allowed her to take control of the creative process and go a completely new direction with M!ssundaztood.
People do this all the time, in the music industry as well as just about everywhere else.
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I wish I'd been in a band when I was 11.
Prepubescent groupies!
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you know, if i was like 12 and angsty towards the world, i might think they were cool. but i'm not 12 and the only thing that i found wrong with it was the horrible singing, which really is going to come out of any kid, except a prodigy. it's meant for kids, which most of us aren't. and will's got a point, i could see this being on the Disney Channel and people would watch it. at least it's not children being overtly racist or something along those lines like those two girls who sing about white power.
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You know, it usually doesn't help to get someone to agree with you if you call their views childish and simplistic. Talk about being presumtuous. Seriously man, rebelling against the system for no reason is for age 14.
Really Daniel, I was willing to set the topic to rest. What's more childish than being all "No! You have to agree with me"?
Also, I think I know enough about human nature to speculate. Several of my friends are in their twenties, definitely adults. Although I'm only 17, I definitely get some adult perspectives when I talk to them (not to mention my parents). I'm not naive.
I suppose though, at the end of the day, I can't really argue with your extra seven years of life experience. Whatever man, you win, if that means anything.
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I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but I'm not letting you off the hook without you providing a decent argument as to why you're views could be right. Saying "I don't like it" or "the system sucks" like you are is indeed childish and simplistic.
And any decent educational psychologist will tell you that those seven years are a huge difference in terms of brain development and how one relates to the world around them, but I digress.
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i read their bio. i didn't know that 12 year olds were allowed to play paint ball. you have to be 18 in australia. they would have some wicked bruises......
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they probably bought their own guns (or their parents did) and play in some field. that's what some kids i know from school do.
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I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but I'm not letting you off the hook without you providing a decent argument as to why you're views could be right. Saying "I don't like it" or "the system sucks" like you are is indeed childish and simplistic.
And any decent educational psychologist will tell you that those seven years are a huge difference in terms of brain development and how one relates to the world around them, but I digress.
Decent argument, eh? I'd say I already have, but you disagree. By the way, I wasn't being sarcastic when I mentioned our age differences earlier. I mean, I know I can argue, and I think I'm right, but you're older.
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Everyone seems to be missing the real point here, which is: Ampersandwich, did you in fact shit yourself?
Remember, pics or it didn't... no, scratch that. We'll take your word for it.
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First things first - No, I didn't shit myself in anger. The urge subsided when I saw a puppy/ got over it.
Second. . .
I find it hilarious that a seventeen year old started this thread (if the information in your profile is correct) when at that age your brain hasn't developed to the point where you can realize that you're being a self-important fucker yourself.
Think, then post.
Unmitigated perhaps?
I've seen far more caustic comments being posted.
I've also seen younger boarders.
Am I suddenly not able to have an opinion because I'll undoubtedly be a "self-important fucker" whenever I type anything? Or am I just not allowed to voice said opinion in this forum? If so, PM me, and I'll go back to the kiddie table.
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My advice: don't play the free speech card. It doesn't pan out well.
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If that's the card you want to play I could just ban you outright, but I'm not a fan of abuse of power. I was dismissing your ideas because I find them idiotic and baseless, not because I'm an admin and can just do so.
Flaming Ostrich, Get over yourself.
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That had comic value!
I do not see why this would lead to people being either upset or angry whatsoever.
Cheer up, emo forums. Cheer up.
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those guys are only a better drummer, so-so base lines, and angsty lyrics away from being Nirvana.
Ahahaha... "base lines." Are these really mean-spirited, primitive lines? Are they any lines in a headquarters? No one knows! You decide.
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Well, it is possible to have talent when you are 11. For example, Charlotte Church's first two albums were produced before she was 12, and while people may not like her music or her sound or whatever, from a technical standpoint her voice is pretty much classically perfect.
(Or it was then, anyway.)
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Boy I sure wish someone would verbally shit all over the music I made when I was fourteen. You guys are making me jealous.
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When my friend was fourteen, he wrote a song about masturbation.
It was called "The One-Handed Surfer".
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As much as I hate your friend right now for that song. I wanna hear the song. And I might start using "one handed surfer" in everyday life.
As for the Video Game song, I wanna cry. The lyrics, singing, and musicianship were so terrible that I actually listened to one of the songs that I wrote. Boy am I glad I wasn't touted around the internet for my music talents.
While I realize that they are just kids, no self respecting adult should allow children to listen to such...what's the word? Noise Pollution. They should change their name to that, Noise Pollution, because that's what it is.
</rant>
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Personally, if I had a child who said "Hey, we've got a band and some songs, would you mind helping us get some exposure" and I had the means, I'd be more than happy to help. Their image has little to do with what their parents are doing or the marketing, but rather the material their writing, and judging by the content and simplicity, they're writing it on their own. Simply because what they know now isn't what they'll know in five years does not make them illegitimate. Especially because, in five to seven years they may have that experimental band, five years after that, when they're in their in their mid-to-early twenties they'll realize how damn pretentious that was, and maybe start something new.
Dude, as much as I'd love to agree with you here in full, just look at LeeAnn Rimes. First she started doing what she loved, and at age 14 she started singing stuff that was written for Patsy Cline just before her untimely demise. It was good shit, catchy enough for the younger audiences but lyrically more identifiable with the older generations (and certainly a blast from the past, delighting any country fans from the late '40s to early '50s). But then something got in the way, be it money or record company bitchery. Three years down the road, she's singing the same packaged bullshit that every other country artist of the period was singing (with very few artists being exceptions), and even goes so far as to butcher a classic Righteous Brothers tune just because the original was so popular that the cover couldn't POSSIBLY not sell. Another three years down the road she's sold herself out to film producers and jumps in as a last-minute appearance in "Coyote Ugly" for a quick buck.
That's just an example, but I agree with most of what you're saying. 5 years down the road they've still got the same exact people as their audience, and all of them will have matured in their musical tastes, and all of them will have gained more experience in life, and the band's songwriting will still be identifiable with their peers, and all the while their musicianship will improve (and hopefully that kid will have grown out of that GODAWFUL voice).
Basically my main point is that you can only go so far in your career writing pop-influenced crap about wanting to play video games all day.
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They should change their name to that, Noise Pollution, because that's what it is.
No! Because then people will buy it!
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Oh noes!
Nobody should EVER have to pay for that. EVER.
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Those kids may live another five to seven years.
That worries me.
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Get over yourself.
I wasn't being petulant because you're an admin, but rather, called me seventeen, and therefore, somehow inferior to the other boarders here. I would take offense to anybody who did that, not just a mod. I guess I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, especially because I've been busy and not able to respond to what you've said, but being accused additionally of being one of the "MODS R FSHISTS LUKLZ!" somehow made me very indignant.
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Dude, you're doing it wrong. CAST MAGIC MISSILE. DUH.
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That worries me.
Did anyone see the avatar and think this was princy? (don't take this as 'change your avatar pls' btw jrob, I'll figure it out).
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Dan, she has a point about the 17 thing. You know fairly well that a lot of the most well thought posters are around that age (ruyi and clara for example).
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Don't You see? These children are the devils hench...boys! They spread their attrocious music as a means of destroying our beloved forums with arguments between whether they will change or settle into MTV corporate whoredom! No Brothers and Sisters! I will not stand Idly by as they split our giant family asunder! To arms! Let us go purge the world of these vile spreaders of chaos and hate!
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I realize that this is not great stuff. Hell, it's not even good stuff, but I have absolutely no problem with what these kids are doing. They wanted to have some fun, and wrote a terrible little song. I think these kids are just having fun and their parents are helping them have fun.
Nobody expects them to go anywhere, I wouldn't think even the kids themselves expect anything. Just let them have their fun.
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I could sing better than that.
And that is fucking saying something.
Yeah, pretty goddamn terrible. But some posters are right, they'll grow up into good musicians one day.
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why are you guys getting so angry about this
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Because we're jealous.
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The age thing kind of irks me also. I can think of several people on this forum who are many years younger than I but I would be far more inclined to trust their opinion on most matters. It doesn't make one person's opinion consistently more or less valid than anothers.
I think ampersandwitch's initial post was over-dramatic and certainly over-abusive but there's no real reason to be caustic about it.
Dan, she has a point about the 17 thing. You know fairly well that a lot of the most well thought posters are around that age (ruyi and clara for example).
You two should know better because I pretty much explained this all in gabbly, I'm disappointed in you guys. Read on.
Get over yourself.
I wasn't being petulant because you're an admin, but rather, called me seventeen, and therefore, somehow inferior to the other boarders here. I would take offense to anybody who did that, not just a mod. I guess I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, especially because I've been busy and not able to respond to what you've said, but being accused additionally of being one of the "MODS R FSHISTS LUKLZ!" somehow made me very indignant.
That "get over yourself" was aimed at Flaming Ostrich, that was pretty clear because the rest of my post was in response to him, and he was the one who was attacking me because I dared take an opposing viewpoint and my continued attacks on his argument were obviously some sort of oppression. They had nothing to do with each other and that he managed to equate them is either extremely self-centered, or insulting, because he is implying that I would only attack his argument from a position of power and that they therefor couldn't stand on their own. Anyone should see through that ploy.
I dislike having to parse this out, but I was warned I'd have to explain this, so I'm not surprised. I mentioned your age in that first post because in terms of brain development, human beings are not wired to think of the world beyond them until their early twenties. Until then, people are extremely self-centered beings, who care to only do what benefits them in some way, since they're the center of the universe in their mind. You may think you don't act or this way, but I guarantee you do.
What this means is not that I was calling you inferior, but that I was calling you a hypocrite, and I stand by that.
Now, Flaming Ostrich's ideas are incredibly naive, simplistic, and childish. I mentioned his age because I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. If someone over the age of say 22 had an understanding of world on the level that he does, then that person would be more or less considered stupid, or be seen as living in a fantasy world of some sort. That he is seventeen and has that worldview is understandable, but it also means that his ideas are incredibly naive, simplistic, and childish.
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I dislike having to parse this out, but I was warned I'd have to explain this, so I'm not surprised. I mentioned your age in that first post because in terms of brain development, human beings are not wired to think of the world beyond them until their early twenties. Until then, people are extremely self-centered beings, who care to only do what benefits them in some way, since they're the center of the universe in their mind. You may think you don't act or this way, but I guarantee you do.
That's an interesting claim. I could give less of a shit about annoying kiddy bands, but have you possibly got any sources for this? Not that I think you'd guarantee it without being sure but I wouldn't mind reading in more detail.
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I will get you the source tomorrow, it came directly from a masters level edu psych class, and I have to track it down.
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Oh, I thought it was just me and I was destined to be a dick my entire life. Cool.
It makes sense though, if you want to get into evolutionary psychology. That's for another thread though.
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Daniel, the problem with the band isn't the kids, it's the people who decided it would be a great idea to market them at this point. They're a kid band. Let them have fun, but don't force them to do anything. They shouldn't be publicized at that young age, at least not by their parents or gym coach. If they are really serious about the band, they should continue to play until they know how to market themselves.
The thing is, those parents are forcing an image on their kids. Those kids may live another five to seven years and realize that they hate corporate America and really want to have an experimental band on Touch and Go, not some gimmicky rock band on a major label making music videos all the time. Of course, in all likelihood they'll just grow accustomed to their lives as soulless teenage-anthem makers. It's really sad, but these kids are victims of circumstance.
Again, Daniel, that was my first response to you. If that really sounds like an attack to you, I'm really glad you're not president.
Really, "attacking because I dared to take an opposing viewpoint." Sometimes I wonder if you're just sitting there cackling at how riled up you're making everyone.
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Well I'm sure sitting here cackling at how riled up everyone's getting.
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I will get you the source tomorrow, it came directly from a masters level edu psych class, and I have to track it down.
Cheers dude, much obliged.
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Mods, can you please lock this thr- oh, wait, nevermind.
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Again, Daniel, that was my first response to you. If that really sounds like an attack to you, I'm really glad you're not president.
Really, "attacking because I dared to take an opposing viewpoint." Sometimes I wonder if you're just sitting there cackling at how riled up you're making everyone.
Are you being deliberately dense?
My advice: don't play the free speech card. It doesn't pan out well.
I was referring to this and all that was implicit in it.
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And when I was talking about the "free speech card," I was referencing my experience playing the free speech card in another topic. God Daniel, I really don't get how you can look over all that has been said and call me dense. I was as polite as I could have been, but I didn't agree with you, so you repeatedly insult and demean me. You threw the first punch by saying my views were "childish and simplistic." As you may recall, when we started debating this, my posts were not filled with my personal analyzation of you, but of my counterpoints to your arguments.
If you want to continue this argument, PM me. Otherwise, I think we should drop it.
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(http://husk.org/apps/flame/flame.jpg)
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(http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/konigtiger2.jpg)
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Dude, firetanks are awesome!
Oh, wait...I think I did it wrong.
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Instant fire, just add tanks.
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holy shit, i wasnt angry until i read this:
"Hunter has been playing guitar for four years, with an enigmatic vocal presence that is slightly reminiscent of Neil Young."
die young man, die.
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Neil Young my ass. The guy sounds like a cat being anally raped with a fork. I have a good bit of distaste for Neil Young's voice, but Hunter's takes the cake like a fat kid in a bakery.
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What this means is not that I was calling you inferior, but that I was calling you a hypocrite, and I stand by that.
This made me laugh really, really hard. And sorry, but it's guaranteed I'm correct, because I've got Daniel beaten by a year. So, until someone older than I am comes along, I stand triumphant.
Seriously, though, Daniel... you and others like you are why I stopped posting around here and why I'm calling it a day on reading here, as well. Reading your thoughts are probably more hazardous to my mental health than bashing my head against the wall in my den ad nauseam. Finally, your arguments involving advanced psychology would be much more convincing once you've learned the differences between "there" and "their," as well as "your" and "you're."
Flaming Ostrich, don't worry, man... I've got your back and I'm roughly eight years older, so now you're vicariously correct.
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I haven't been here long, but arguments like this about a kiddy band seem really... stupid. If it's all about age, then age should be removed from private profiles (or at least hidden in some way). Use your vast argumentative powers for something important, like the name of the next Ben & Jerry's flavor.
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:roll:
Kokeyjoe, I know the differences, it's also a known fact that my grammar sucks, especially in the wee hours of the morning.
However, please, enlighten me:
That "get over yourself" was aimed at Flaming Ostrich, that was pretty clear because the rest of my post was in response to him, and he was the one who was attacking me because I dared take an opposing viewpoint and my continued attacks on his argument were obviously some sort of oppression. They (attacking his arguments and my power) had nothing to do with each other and that he managed to equate them is either extremely self-centered, or insulting, because he is implying that I would only attack his argument from a position of power and that they (my arguments) therefor couldn't stand on their own. Anyone should see through that ploy.
I dislike having to parse this out, but I was warned I'd have to explain this, so I'm not surprised. I mentioned your age in that first post because in terms of brain development, human beings are not wired to think of the world beyond them until their early twenties. Until then, people are extremely self-centered beings, who care to only do what benefits them in some way, since they're (they are) the center of the universe in their mind. You may think you don't act or this way, but I guarantee you do.
What this means is not that I was calling you inferior, but that I was calling you a hypocrite, and I stand by that.
Now, Flaming Ostrich's ideas are incredibly naive, simplistic, and childish. I mentioned his age because I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. If someone over the age of say 22 had an understanding of world on the level that he does, then that person would be more or less considered stupid, or be seen as living in a fantasy world of some sort. That he is seventeen and has that worldview is understandable, but it also means that his ideas are incredibly naive, simplistic, and childish.
I'm sure you could find mistakes in my other posts, but I'm sure I could find them in yours. I make them because I type faster than I catch them, so I often go back and correct them almost immediately, however sometimes I miss them, like in a post on the front of this page. Then, actually respond to my points, as caustic as I was FO and Ampersandwitch, I actually bothered to provide some specific examples, something I've yet to see anyone else do.
But don't let me keep you.
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Madness Hero: You know The Planets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Planets)?
Someone should do a comprehensive suite of "Ice Cream Flavours".
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Okay, I'm not really mad about it, but that is genuinely the worst music I've ever heard since I first started listening to music. That is worse than the Cheeky girls, worse than Animal Collective's improvised live album, worse than Metal Machine Music, worse than Chacarron, worse than the Crazy Frog in any of his incarnations, absolutely goddamn terrible.
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Worse than Junkyard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLovmg6I3tQ
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If the lyrics were less retarded and they sounded less whiny, they'd be pretty good.
What I mean is that the guitarist and drummer have some skill.
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Flaming Ostrich, don't worry, man... I've got your back and I'm roughly eight years older, so now you're vicariously correct.
I appreciate it, but I'm trying to get this argument to die. I don't think that any of us are going to convince Daniel that he is wrong/being a dick/whatever.
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i thought it was really cute! the vocals were a little abrasive though.
reminds me of this (http://www.dahv.com/) 12-year-old-rapper, although it's a little less cute for me. maybe because i'm a girl and i'm less judgmental of little boys?
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The thing I don't quite get about this argument is why Flaming Ostriches arguments indicate that he is entirely self-centered. As far as I can see, he put forward a relatively reasonable argument. As did Daniel. However, saying that the argument that this could well be a case of parents (or other adults) living vicariously through their children is not without merit. This band has an extremely proffessional set-up: wesbite, press pack, mobile phone downloads, tours, proffessional videos, etc. Yes, their age may not imply anything about their promotional abilities, however, minors cannot sign legal contracts. The fact that they are signed to a record label and are playing concerts in places other than their school hall indicates that there is a fairly strong adult presence behind them. Notice also this sentence: 'The concept of the song was born when the band's music coach always found the three playing video games when not practicing music.' Also, the fact that the child has been playing guitar since the age of about 7 may say something as well. Now, this is not to say that I am agreeing with Flaming Ostrich that this is some sort of cynical manipulation of children by adults. They could simply be very lucky to have some very dedicated parents (and/or teachers) who want to push forward these childrens ambitions. Or it could be that a music promoter is just trying to make a quick buck off a novelty act. To call the argument in either direction is somewhat presumptuous given the information available. Having endured a private education, I can tell you from long personal experience that parents can and will shoe-horn their children into doing the most ridiculous stuff. I can also tell you that the children often enjoy it, because they like gaining their parents approval, and because their parents have instilled their values into them, thus making their measures of success similiar. It is entirely possible that these children simultaneously want to be and enjoy being in a rock band, and have been pushed into being in a rock band by adults to some degree. I can further tell you, by the way, that whatever way they're wired, a lot of these children become completely insufferable cunts.
I also find it fairly interesting, Daniel, that you seem to be trying to link pretty much everything in this thread to one study on developmental brain chemistry. If there's one thing that can be truly said about the practice of profiling people by their physical characteristics (age, gender, sexual orientation, race, whatever), it is that it doesn't really work. If you can say that all people under a certain age are completely and utterly self-centred based on brain wiring, then you can say that all women can't read maps and desire to bear children, and that all men are competitive and can't multi-task. Such things, at best, describe generalities. You also seem to, somewhat strangely, imply that people automatically stop being self centred when they pass the age of 23, and you really don't need a scientific study to see that that isn't the case.
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Khar, this isn't one study, this is accepted fact in terms of adolescent brain development. You're right, it's not a magical overnight thing, and indeed, not everyone even matures to that point, especially here in the US where a culture of adolescence, or lad culture, if you'll have it, is more or less accepted.
Sorry for not clarifying that earlier, I had PM'd amok and neglected to mention it here. Any comprehensive book on brain development, especially adolescent brain development, will provide you with further reading. The book I was referring to was Adolescence by John Santrock.
As for the band, yes there may well be an adult presence behind them, and yes they may well grow into insufferable people, but we don't know that, and the manner in which a group of rather young people came down on them was, in my opinion, extremely hypocritical.
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Khar, this isn't one study, this is accepted fact in terms of adolescent brain development. You're right, it's not a magical overnight thing, and indeed, not everyone even matures to that point, especially here in the US where a culture of adolescence, or lad culture, if you'll have it, is more or less accepted.
Those studies suggest that your argument is correct and valid, but nothing more. Rule #1 of Psychology - nothing is truly proven, only suggested. And again, this is a study into the application of generalisations. After the numbers have been crunched some results might mean very little in regards to individuals.
As for the band, yes there may well be an adult presence behind them
If they don't have adult backing, then what they're doing is illegal as minors cannot enter business agreements on their own. Therefore we can keep open the possibility that the adults involved are gaining considerably from this.
I find your argument somewhat hypocritial, to be honest. "Yes they may well grow into insufferable people, but we don't know that, and the manner in which a group of rather young people came down on them was, in my opinion, extremely hypocritical".
Going by your argument, at the very least they'll be selfish until 20-something and they'll have the ego inflation from all the attention they're getting. In fact, the popularity they probably experience with their peers means that what they say is immediately accepted and at that age, people are ignorant, so if they want to bullshit victory in a juvenile debate they immediately have the backing of most of their peers. This teaches them that they are always right by default. Of course I don't have to explain to anyone how silly and juvenile this mindset is.
I don't think it does much credit to Daniel that he was playing the name game with Ostrich while trying to prove that he has a more matured mind, either.
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This thread is really awesome guys. Keep up the good work.
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I don't think it does much credit to Daniel that he was playing the name game with Ostrich while trying to prove that he has a more matured mind, either.
The name game? If it's namecalling you mean, I don't think there was any of that from either side. However, I'd be all for playing the original name game.
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I've read very convincing studies which talk about brain chemistry to suggest very good reasons why the vast majority of airline pilots are female. However, at the end of the day:
(http://www.lusa.lu.se/cache/ttf/0eeea9acf0eeeb2885.jpg)
Female airline pilots still exist. I personally have a healthy skepticism of pscyhological studies of this nature, mainly because, as you say, there is culture at work here too. How many countries were subjects taken from? How was the data collected? What was the data? How do you actually measure 'self-centeredness'? Even if the study were 100% irrefutable fact, which, again from experience, I highly doubt, the fact that you would actually use such studies to talk down to people in an argument I find quite worrying. The fact that someone is self-centered does not mean they are incapable of selfless actions or thoughts, or of holding ideas contrary to their biology. Plus I find something quite self-centered in the attitude that 'Oh, of course I'm write, my brains wired better than yours'. It's unbecoming to a serious debate.
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Now, Flaming Ostrich's ideas are incredibly naive, simplistic, and childish. I mentioned his age because I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. If someone over the age of say 22 had an understanding of world on the level that he does, then that person would be more or less considered stupid, or be seen as living in a fantasy world of some sort. That he is seventeen and has that worldview is understandable, but it also means that his ideas are incredibly naive, simplistic, and childish.
I know I said I wanted this to be taken to PM, but then I noticed this extra little goody Daniel snuck in there. Oh Daniel, I ask you, if my worldview at my age is understandable, why was there the need to demean me and insult my intelligence?
I find it completely laughable that you say that someone who held my worldview at 22 would be considered stupid. Please, get off your high horse. Just because I'm not taking masters level classes doesn't mean I'm any less intelligent than you are. I'm sorry I haven't experienced the epiphanies you have, that I don't understand human nature the way you do. The thing is, I know I'm smart. I've always been smart. I don't need validation from you or anyone else, but it is still frustrating that I can't be taken seriously just because you read something that says that there is a lot of brain development from age 17 to age 24. Just because you're older and more educated than I am doesn't mean that your argument is any more valid than mine is.
So, maybe you've decided that I'm a bad forumite. Maybe you've run across some of my more dense ramblings. Well, I've enjoyed my anonymity on the internet as much as anyone, and I've made mistakes, but I think I've presented a good point on this topic and deserve to be taken seriously. For all your condescension you have not been able to convince me that my views are childish, and you certainly haven't convinced me that I'm wrong. Apparently, this was not the result you desired, though certainly what you expected. However, I hope you don't view my refusal to accept your tenet (apparently, this is that people who aren't taking Masters level psychology classes shouldn't voice their opinion in matters concerning kid bands) as grounds for ignoring or dismissing any arguments I make in the future.
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'Oh, of course I'm write, my brains wired better than yours'.
I am an English example bad!
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I'd been awake for about 29 hours when I wrote that post. Also, picking out peoples typos on a forum is pretty under 23, if you know what I mean.
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It's because +1
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Thank you for posting this. Now I'm going to go shoot myself. I think part of my brain died listening to that...
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have you shit yourself yet
pics plz
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i thought it was really cute! the vocals were a little abrasive though.
reminds me of this (http://www.dahv.com/) 12-year-old-rapper, although it's a little less cute for me. maybe because i'm a girl and i'm less judgmental of little boys?
My god, that made me want to shoot myself, she is definitely worse than the kid band.
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Oh man, this thread was dead.
If you really have to revive old threads at least add something to them.
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LET ME DIE
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(http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/Assets/necromancer.jpg) (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/necromancer.htm)
Click. Post here no further, FOR DEATH AWAITS YOU ALL.
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This thread is now about Ian Anderson:
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/elobue1/JethroTull.jpg)
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(http://whiteninjacomics.com/images/comics/longhair.gif)
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in b4 band camp