THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Jackie Blue on 30 Nov 2007, 11:11
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Seriously, has anyone heard Niggy Tardust? It's as bad as its title. Easily the worst rap album I've ever heard, and yes, that's including mainstream shit like 50 Cent and Young MC's Return of the One Hit Wonder. Half the songs sound like they're being pushed to be "hold yo' 40s in the air" club anthems, complete with lyrics that are ridiculously macho for someone who is a former slam poet (he wasn't good at that, either, but he was popular) and is supposed to be "intelligent". The other half of the songs sound like Trent said "Man, I wish I could make songs that sound like TV On the Radio".
Also, that cover of "Sunday Bloody Sunday". Oh, Jesus, that track is pain incarnate.
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sounds like a personal problem. i've never even heard of this; let alone listened to it.
and judging by your description that's a very good thing.
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Well, it's being pushed as some kind of brave new evolution of hip-hop, because OMG TRENT REZNOR PRODUCING A RAP ALBUM, and Saul Williams is "the new voice of black America" and all that. That's why I brought it up. Check the Pitchfork review; they gave it a 7 point something but basically kissed its ass hardcore in the actual review.
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I think you've misjudged the review and possibly, from what I'm listening to on Myspace, the record itself. Pitchfork's stance is that it's a challenging album, the reviewer doesn't always "get it" but he isn't willing to discredit it based on that.
The Myspace only has "DNA" and "Trigger" as original tracks. The latter track reminds me of dense, murky rap like Tes mixed with some low-key Public Enemy sampling, while the former is a fairly slow-burn track about black urbanites finding more value in rap music and what it represents than anything immediate and tangible in their community. Maybe it's just that the best tracks on Niggy Tardust are on the Myspace?
I'm not trying to be a contrarian or anything. I mean, that "Sunday Bloody Sunday" does really suck. I just think that what I'm hearing so far - about a fifth of the record - isn't nearly that bad.
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The tracks on the Myspace are definitely not the worst on the album, no. As for it being a "challenging" album, I don't see how. The lyrics are front-loaded with ideas that were already old a decade ago. In one interview, Saul said he wanted to use the word "nigger" so much on the album in order to open a dialogue about what the word means and how it should be used. That's great and all, except that rappers have been doing that since at least the late 80s if not before, and 2Pac already delivered the definitive statement on the subject: "A nigger is a black man with a chain around his neck; a nigga is a black man with a gold chain around his neck."
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That wordfilter ruins all constructive arguments about rap.
I think Tupac talking about it and the culture actually listening are two different things. I mean, when most rappers talk about Pac they're prefacing it with "rest in peace." Essentially, he's used to build cred while his overall views on black culture are left by the wayside. Dialogue about it can't hurt.
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Wow, a wordfilter. How quaint.
Can I say "cracker"?
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Sorry, zoned out at the mention of rap :-D
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Sorry, zoned out at the mention of rap :-D
Thanks for adding constructively to this thread. Wonderful.
Anyhow, I liked the idea behind this album, and whenever I imagined what it might sound like, TV On The Radio sprung to mind. Having said that, I didn't have faith enough to actually check it out. This thread has made me happy I had that faith, in part. It also has kind of made me want to listen to it more though, to see if it's really that intensely terrible.
The year has been an odd one for rap. Up until about now, there were only a couple rap albums out this year that I enjoyed. And suddenly, Ghostface, Wu-Tang Clan, Beanie Sigel, and Freeway all have pretty excellent albums out. And I've heard good things about Jay-Z's latest.
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doesn't Jay-z sample "The Final Countdown" on his new record? I can't remember if it's him or not but i've heard it and it's amazing.
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I liked Saul's tracks on Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, but I just can't get into Niggy Tardust. I really like NIN/Trent in general, but tardust just doesn't interest me at all.
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That's because you're RACIST.
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So were you, until you discovered you liked that one Dizzee Rascal song.
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I listen to a reasonable amount of dub.
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Team up to singlehandedly destroy...?
Um.
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Grammar'd.
I'm not a racist, I listen to Bill Withers! (lul)
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Sorry, zoned out at the mention of rap :-D
Dismissing whole genres is awesome.
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It iz a skill that killz.
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The record's not terribly inconsistent with Williams' past work. If anything, it's more akin to your average hip hop record than his self-titled was. And like with a lot of slam poets, he's a lot better live than he is on record. Slam poetry does, after all, have a heavily aleatory element to it. It's just not the same on record.
That having been said, I don't like it a whole lot either. The new Little Brother, for example, is better. But I still think you're overreacting, particularly in it being worse than 50 Cent. The biggest problem is that the music (mostly unreleased stuff from The Fragile) doesn't jibe with the vocals like it optimally should. I really disliked it at first, but it's growing on me, though I'll never think it's great. It's one of those albums that would work better as an EP.
For Saul at his best, look for a Blackalicious track called "Release".
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In the interest of full disclosure I'll admit that I've hated Saul Williams for like 12 years, because I used to be a slam poet and met him several times, and was at Nationals with him (though luck of the draw never saw my team directly compete against his team).
I think he's pretty much just awful in general. It's just that this album took it to such a new level of awful.
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So he was an asshole, then, is what you're saying?
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Saul Williams and Trent Reznor team up to single-handedly destroy rap music.
Awww...I was gonna do that over the weeked :(.
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So he was an asshole, then, is what you're saying?
All slam poets are assholes. Including me, when I was one. That's part of the reason I quit; the audience is so hoodwinked into thinking that these people on stage, who are generally alcoholics, druggies*, misogynists, backstabbing gossips, cold-blooded calculating game-players, or just plain batshit crazy, are really deep, spiritually enlightening and amazing people just because of the piece they're performing. I can't even tell you the number of poets I've known who outright admitted that a piece of theirs wasn't even based on something that actually happened (such as one poet who did a piece about one of his highschool students coming to him for advice about how she was being sexually abused at home, and was a real heartstring-puller and presented as truth, when in fact it was totally and absolutely made-up).
*NB: Not that I think alcohol or drugs are bad, as I'm enjoying both right now, but you know what I mean.
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Sorry, zoned out at the mention of rap :-D
Dismissing whole genres is awesome.
But remember, it's OK if you do it to metal.
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I never dismissed literally all metal. I love a select few metal bands. I think the post you're referring to was one where I dismissed certain genre conventions of certain of the most prominent metal subgenres.
Plus, I was mostly just trying to be funny.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. I find it mildly charming that you think I pay that much attention to what you post, I was merely referring to the fact that it happens around once a month or so on this forum.
Well, that might be a slight exaggeration. But the point is it's somehow unacceptable to pan every other genre of music.
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Metal and ska.
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Dismissing metal and ska genres is even more awesome.
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Metal and ska.
Oh yeah, my bad.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. I find it mildly charming that you think I pay that much attention to what you post
I'm sorry, I just have a very good memory for everything in general, so I seem to recall you jumping on my case over the summer when I made fun of certain aspects of metal. So I thought that's what you might be referring to.
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So he was an asshole, then, is what you're saying?
All slam poets are assholes. Including me, when I was one. That's part of the reason I quit; the audience is so hoodwinked into thinking that these people on stage, who are generally alcoholics, druggies*, misogynists, backstabbing gossips, cold-blooded calculating game-players, or just plain batshit crazy, are really deep, spiritually enlightening and amazing people just because of the piece they're performing. I can't even tell you the number of poets I've known who outright admitted that a piece of theirs wasn't even based on something that actually happened (such as one poet who did a piece about one of his highschool students coming to him for advice about how she was being sexually abused at home, and was a real heartstring-puller and presented as truth, when in fact it was totally and absolutely made-up).
*NB: Not that I think alcohol or drugs are bad, as I'm enjoying both right now, but you know what I mean.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree, but I've always tried to think of them as actors. Same with most if not all rappers. I just saw Bernard Dolan in concert and he was really good, not because what he said was true, I didn't care if it was true-to-life just as I don't necessarily care if a song is true-to-life, but because his delivery was fiery and passionate. It was impressive to behold. Then I met him afterwards, and yes, he was an asshole. But still, I have to give a measure of respect to someone who can get up onstage and recite something they've written. I don't think I could.
And to be brutally honest, I don't place Saul Williams that high above Zach de la Rocha as far as his "truth-telling" goes. I just happen to think the records he puts out are at least interesting from a musical standpoint.
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sounds like a fantastically horrible car-crash.
i'm going to go rubberneck on slsk.
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I don't know a thing about this album except that they're giving it away for free. That wins brownie points from me.
Also, rap is dismissed far more often than metal on this forum, which, in all honesty is largely a forum of metal fans. Which is odd, given that it's associated with a comic that's about indie pop music.
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Whatever your opinions on metal and rap, at least metal doesn't promote misogyny, violence and racism!
...oh fuck.
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Also, rap is dismissed far more often than metal on this forum, which, in all honesty is largely a forum of metal fans.
'Largely' my ass. Remember the battle of the bands we held a year ago or so? You and Tommy were saying the same thing back then, and then like 2 metal bands made it past the first round.
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So what about rap-metal?
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*shudder*
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The only thing that's close to being rap metal that's any good is Skindred.
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'Largely' my ass. Remember the battle of the bands we held a year ago or so? You and Tommy were saying the same thing back then, and then like 2 metal bands made it past the first round.
That's because we held it on the wiki, and EVERYBODY voted. That means the kids from I Like Fish that don't venture into the music forum. Because they're scared of metal. That's why the metal bands fell out of the competition quickly. There was a lot of strategic voting in that contest, and I know that a lot of people voted in our favour just because we told them to.
Once you start including the other forums, that's when our argument falls apart. I mean, I bet most of the folks from General Discussion barely know what music is. But the music forums? Way metal.
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OK, so let's examine the music forum itself then. Number of metal-related threads on the first page right now? 1, and it's a complete umbrella thread of the entire genre. OK, so maybe we're just in a down slump. Second page? 1. Third page? 1. If metal fans are the majority here they are pretty fucking quiet.
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Off the bat, I can think of seven metal fans who post regularly, and at least half of them talk a lot about other genres as well. If you mean in comparison to rap, then just maybe, but then again, maybe not.
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And looking at the other threads, the ones that aren't about metal, most of them aren't connected to any particular genre either. Sure, the iPod thread isn't about metal, but it isn't about classical either.
Just out of curiousity...
When was the last time you started a thread on a metal subject?
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JESUS FUCKING CHRIST CAN WE JUST HAVE ONE FUCKING MONTH WHERE WE DON'T ARGUE THE MERITS OF METAL VERSUS RAP FOR FUCK'S SAKE
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what, they have merits?
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(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3005/photo195gv7.jpg)
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A BLOO BLA BLOOOO
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No, no. I have a different picture of myself for blubbering.
That face is saying to you, "Try harder."
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May i see the blubbering photo?
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Technically, we weren't talking about merit, we were talking about demographics.
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Sorry guys, I completely zoned out at the mention of metal and ska. Now I'm stuck in a disturbingly wonderful fantasy world: Metallica - the two-tone years.
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That face is saying to you, "Try harder."
To me that face communicates the message "I am having trouble pooping".
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May i see the blubbering photo?
Apparently it's deleted? The closest I have is one of me with a pouty face.
To me that face communicates the message "I am having trouble pooping".
No, see, my face would me redder and my eyes would be skyward.
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Sorry guys, I completely zoned out at the mention of metal and ska
part of the problem
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To me that face communicates the message "I am having trouble pooping".
No, see, my face would me redder and my eyes would be skyward.
Don't worry we can sort that out with the aid of Photoshop.
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Bonus points for Impact font reading, "I'M POOPIN"
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I was going to say that I enjoyed the album, but I'm not sure anyone is still talking about that.
I won't try to vouch for its "intelligence," but I don't think its true that it can't be intelligent just because it tries to be, and I thought that most of the songs did a good job of staying catchy without getting too repetitive. I also think it's going to take a lot more than this to take out rap music. See: the aforementioned rap-rock, 50-cent, soulja boy...
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We WERE talking about it.
I agree that one album cannot destroy/take out a whole genre of music but if it gets enough attention hear and there it will change it and force it to mutate, like cells in the human body. Rap-rock/rap-metal is a cancerous growth within the genre in question.
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I was reading this thread and feeliong a bit disgusted but then Ohm Sweet Ohm by Kraftwerk came up on shuffle and oh my god guys i am crying.
anyway, this thread should now be about kraftwerk.
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Kraftwerk are German. My German teacher would educate us about German culture on Friday afternoons, she'd play Nena, and only Nena. Despite my rational argument on why we should listen to Kraftwerk instead she never played them for us.
did I mention that I've never actually listened to Kraftwerk?
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I was going to say that I enjoyed the album,
You're braver than me. I wanted to say that I liked the album but never did 'cuz everyone was talking bad about it. Now that I have a fellow soul, I feel more brave.
I don't usually listen to Rap or Hip-Hop. But I liked "Niggy Tardust".
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You had to wait for someone else to say they liked it before you felt comfortable saying that you too liked it?
This shows a weakness in your own opinion of you opinion. Though it really won't change a thing, it's important to believe that it will.
In short, wuss.
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It's a pretty good CD because it's like Nine Inch Nails without Trent's godawful lyrics. I mean I don't listen to much rap that isn't basically NIN with some random guy shouting 'niggeh!' over it so I can't really compare or talk about its impact on the genre in general, but it's a solid album. Awful, awful name though.
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It's a pretty good CD because it's like Nine Inch Nails
:?
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Yeah that doesn't really work out of the context of what I put after it because Trent fags that band up something fierce. Some of the fuzzy instrumental bits are cool though, and silly rapping over the top is even better.
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It says a lot about Trent Reznor that the best thing he's ever been associated with by far is the Fixed EP, where he was remixed by musicians with actual talent and most of the vocals were removed or chopped up beyond recognition.
It certainly wins the award for "most appropriate CD title ever".
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I hate feeling like the odd man out here. It happens too much!
Personally, I'm a huge fan of melding of genres, especially those at seemingly opposite ends of the spectrum. Rap and metal/hard rock just work together. Jay-Z/Linkin Park's Collision Course album is proof of this. Even if I wouldn't call Linkin Park metal, or even really hard rock for that matter, that album was fucking brilliant. Even the songs Linkin Park has done by themselves with a rapper over the top (I can't remember the guy's name, but songs like Bleed it Out, Nobody's Listening, etc.) are awesome. The remix of Crank Dat Soulja Boy that Travis Barker just did is also fantastic.
I now feel obligated to check this album out in the hopes that it will appeal to my tastes. Then again, I also have Evanescence on my computer, so what does that really say about me?
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Jay-Z/Linkin Park's Collision Course album is proof of this
[...]
Then again, I also have Evanescence on my computer, so what does that really say about me?
I wouldn't speak for anyone else, but to me those statements say "I have awful taste in music."
I'm sure you're a nice person though, and I'm not trying to be a dick, but SRSLY.
To be fair, I love Transvision Vamp, so I'm equally guilty of liking music that some would politely term "dubious".
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I thought Collision Course was pretty decent, actually.
But, I'm a huge fan of remix albums. Me & This Army, Ratatat's remix albums, Silent Alarm Remixed, Romance Bloody Romance, All Of A Sudden I Miss Everyone(Remixes), and Kicking A Dead Pig come to mind.
Edit: Evanescence = a bag of dicks. :(
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None of the other ones you've mentioned include Linkin' Park.
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Sorry, I liked Reanimation too.
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I actually think Reanimation is a solid album, as opposed to the rest of Linkin Park's discography.
X-Ecutioner Style, with Black Thought (of The Roots) on it, and High Voltage with Evidence and DJ Babu from Dilated Peoples and Pharoahe Monch on it are great tracks.
In short, low-quality nu-metal scratched and remixed somewhat beyond recognition provides a great backing track for talented rappers.
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I actually think Reanimation is a solid album, as opposed to the rest of Linkin Park's discography.
Oh, I can play this game too.
Ice is pretty warm, as opposed to deep space.
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I gave examples, asshole.