V4 is what I can use with anyone new playing the game, but 3.5 is what I can bust out with my totally nerd-core friends
They're removing d20 from Dungeons and Dragons?
Making the system work online is a good change, for that reason.
But overall, I'm highly dissapointed. D&D isn't going to be nerdcore anymore. That bothers me. Half the reason I enjoyed D&D was the sheer difficulty of it. The only reason people constantly yell "BUFF FIGHTERS" is because they are too retarded to learn the nuances of D&D's core, magic. They just want to run up and hit things without thinking about spell balance, item balance, without actually having to outthink their opponent.
I guess I'll just have to leave this as a wait-and-see type of thing. The fact they are removing D&D's classic spell system again also pisses me the fuck off. Different levels of spells, memorizing every day what you wanted to be able to do? That's half the joy of wizardry.
I have the soul of pretty hardcore rules lawyer. Thick books and big tables of numbers don't scare me much. I have a rather perverse love for sifting through all those pages and wrapping my mind around the nuances of any given system. I like playing around with the numbers, coming up with munchkiny characters, breaking systems and getting an idea of how to get the most results with the least effort.
Your friends don't know how to play fighters. Apparently, neither do you.Tell me something I don't know about fighters, then.
Don't tell me I don't know how to play a fighter. That's pretty insulting.
As I've said, they are making a game that a world happens to exist in, instead of making a world in which you can play a game.
Ok, since the rest of your quote is simply personal preference, this is what I'll focus on.Wizards are being nerfed. Magic is being nerfed.
What the hell are you talking about.
Part of what makes the worlds in D&D worlds, rather than just game environments, is the huge amount of history of the worlds that have been put into them by TSR, Wizards and even individual DM's. The interaction of the players, your imagination and the DM's ability to convey a story will always be the most important part of what makes it a thriving world that you just happen to be playing a game in though, and I can't see how the hell a new edition would suddenly make you stop any of that.
Personalizing and specializing your character is amped up, it’s one of the most powerful things about 4th edition. If you’re a barbarian, you’re not a frenzied berserker. If you’re a barbarian, you’re a barbarian for your entire career. The frenzied berserker and bear warrior will be at the very end.. What does this mean?
I'll disagree here for the reason that gnomes and halflings were quite different back in AD&D days. I don't see what's so difficult about giving them a unique set of racial abilities that sets them apart from halflings, personally. Give them the old +intelligence, -wisdom thing.
Races - Really, as much as I love gnomes, I do have to agree that either they or halflings had to go to flesh out the other. Overall I think it's a good decision.
Races - Really, as much as I love gnomes, I do have to agree that either they or halflings had to go to flesh out the other. Overall I think it's a good decision.
Your friends don't know how to play fighters. Apparently, neither do you.Tell me something I don't know about fighters, then.
Grapple checks? Knockdowns? Bull rushes? Whirlwind attacks? Arrows?
Fighters hit things until they die. End of story. No tricks. The only tricks they have is in their equipment and their potions. It is impossible to play a fighter and beat any caster that's worth a lick of salt. Planning on trying to cripple me in melee somehow? Good luck actually hitting through my thousands of mirror images, buffed armor class, and damage reduction. Going to try and dispel my stuff through the use of an item? That's too bad; I've got a spell mantle or two up that'll absorb it. Actually, fuck all that. I'll just Dire Charm you right away to make you MY meatshield.
Don't tell me I don't know how to play a fighter. That's pretty insulting.
The way Pen and Paper is designed, you're pretty much only supposed to have one significant encounter a day. Fighters are nice buff targets for a party or good to take a few levels in if you want some quick fighter-oriented feats, but that's the end of their purpose. They're good for campaigns where you slog through lots of meat, as well, because they have longer battle endurance than casters. I'd still just rather have a cleric or druid tanking, however.
It sounds to me like a lot of this comes down to the campaign you're playing in. What's your wizard going to do when ambushed or otherwise not allowed to prep (happened in the last two encounters in the campaign I'm playing in). What's your wizard going to do when the enemy has hella spell resistance (last encounter). Fighters are good in different situations from wizards. If you're at range with a good meat shield, then yeah, you're right, you're going to win with a caster.There's plenty of instant-cast spells and I'm a fan of keeping some of my higher level spell slots open to either Quicken Spell or Silent Spell, depending. Nothing like having a rogue drop out on you from nowhere, just to see you Quicken Haste yourself and sprint away. As for spell resistance, it's a nightmare to overcome but it's possible. There's lots of spells that lower enemy spell resistance. I had to do that once because the DM got tired of me outthinking his rogues so he decided the main baddies for our campaign were Drow at the last minute (I love DMs that adapt). When every single monster you encounter has SR, it's pretty rough. Not having a lot of time to rest hurt, too. It was the druid's glory moment, as he'd just turn into a bear or worse and maul everything that came against us until we finally had a spot to rest. Pretty fun campaign, if you ask me.
As for "they hit things until they die", three of the 5 things you mentioned in your list are nonfatal; quite useful when you need to catch a fleeing person and interrogate them. High strength is useful for climbing, swimming, opening, breaking things, etc... High HP lets them take point in case of ambush, or a trap the rogue missed (and the DCs on decent traps are so high, they will be missed), or to cover the squishy caster behind them. High fortitude saves cover those pesky death spells and poisons (Rogues are just no fun as a caster, and Assassins even less so). Along more campaign-specific lines, there's certainly a long history of warrior cultures who would respect a fighter and fear/hate/scorn a wizard (just as there's plenty of examples of magocracies that feel the opposite way).
As for mirror image, buffed AC, and DR, well, let's see... generously speaking* you'll have about 20 AC or so at mid levels, and certainly not more than 10 DR. Honestly not that hard to get through either of those, and you don't have much HP to back it up. To deal with the mirror image, we'll whirlwind attack and/or cleave. For mind-affecting spells, protection from evil does a great job, and is not that difficult to get a means of using.
All that said, I play casters myself. Generally not your typical combat power caster though. My last character was a cleric/fleshwarper focused entirely on self buffs (died on Friday, largely due to not getting prep time :/ ). The one before that was a pacifist sorcerer/bard.
*this is assuming a non-munchkin wizard of course, and campaign power levels similar to what I'm used to. I'm sure it's possible to build one that throws these numbers way off.
Alignments are not leaving from what I can tell, since several things, including teh previews of dragon descriptions mention alignment specifically.
Also, what the hell did you expect? Wizards to support 3.5 for the rest of time? Question Wizard's supplement releases all you like (lord knows I hated the rate they came out) but pretending like 4th Ed should/would never have come along is more than a bit stupid.
Also, as has been stated in the thread, if you don't wanna go to 4th, then don't.
Otherwise play some, and transfer your character over and keep playing and having fun.
A proper D&D game just doesn't work very well without everyone being there at the same time in some manner.I beg to differ. (http://www.dndonlinegames.com)
Deific Cock Slap of Kord
This is now a spell in my campaigns.
If they really do create some terrifically implemented online component, we should create forumite campaign. Ozy has never played before, so he can be the DM.
Reading through this thread, all I can tell is that everything Narr is complaining about makes me want to pick up D&D when this comes out.:(
In short, I think the new edition is meant to be more accessible, more balanced, and to expedite the flow of gameplay. Thus, mumorpeger.
* Mike Mearls: "[3E]... assumed that the party fought only one monster. In 4th Edition, we’re doing things a bit different. We’re shifting to a system that assumes a number of monsters equal to the number of characters."
* A hazard simply fits in in the same way that a monster does: "That makes it much easier to design green slime, pit traps, whirling blades, fountains that spray acid, and crumbling stone walls. One such hazard can simply take the place of one monster, leaving you with three or four monsters in the encounter. Since monster level is a more rigorous measure of power, we can turn those measures and scales around and use them to create environmental hazards, traps, set pieces, and other interesting tactical twists. ... A swaying rope bridge battered by howling air elementals fits under the encounter building system. A burning building that collapses around the PCs as they fight the evil hobgoblin wizard fills a similar role, as does a bizarre altar to Vecna that randomly teleports characters around the room. Hazards, traps, and other dangers simply fill in for one or more creatures in a fight."
I can't recall ever encountering a trap and monsters at the same time, despite the fact it would make for a much more dramatic and interesting encounter. Elsewhere they talk about making a trap a more involved encounter itself with multiple functioning parts with differing initiative rolls and whatnot. So in addition to balancing classes, they're trying to make the environment a part of the game rather than just colorful background.
Yes it does. I tried DMing a game in college where all of us had been away from the game for several years. One guy was a power gamer and completely ruined it for everyone else.Power gamers die early in my campaigns. I'm just saying. Kobolds have an unusually high critical rate against power gamers.
Vancian magic system (Spell slots of the current system) will be dramatically changed. A wizard who casts all his spells will only be at 80% power. A wizard will never completely run out of spells.
WotC says that what makes a 28th level fighter cool will be the fact that he’s a 28th level fighter.In general, I like the sound of what they're doing ... there's just a lot of minor things that irk me about WotC & D&D. :roll: (ie; beardless dwarven women-folk ... wtf was that for?)
Stat bonuses for races won’t be negative and only positive bonuses will be used.Which probably won't make that much difference, if it means better positives.
In general, I like the sound of what they're doing ... there's just a lot of minor things that irk me about WotC & D&D. :roll: (ie; beardless dwarven women-folk ... wtf was that for?)
I don't know man...my particular DM group tends to break the system. We regularly kill DC 21 creatures in less than 5 turns, and we haven't played a single campaign past 8th level characters. We're not hardcore players or anything either, we just try the zaniest things and they ALWAYS work. We might not get 4e right away because of this.
Kind of like when we strapped my dwarf with powder kegs had me eaten by The Terrasque, i hacked my way out of his gut,and we threw a smalled lit powder keg into the escape hole before it healed over and then ran like hell.It got it to -50 HP and you guys also used a Wish spell to keep it permanently dead?
That was one dead Terrasque.
because, my friend whose a fighter AND a girl would never be a dwarf if they had beards.But that was the thing about dwarves - even their women were man enough to sprout beards.