THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: rancidhooligan on 05 Mar 2008, 14:35
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Inspired by a recent "Ask Jeph" post.
Why do you hate musicals?
Because they are bad
I'll admit that I actually have one musical that I enjoy, Hedwig and the Angry Inch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedwig_and_the_Angry_Inch_%28film%29) but that's the only one. Oklahoma can suck my ass (the state as well as the musical,) South Pacific can blow me and don't get me started on fucking Rocky Horror Picture Show. I was forced to sit through a group showing of that piece of crap and I actually fell asleep halfway through because it was so bad (and I was drunk.)
Musicals suck and unless it's the aforementioned Hedwig you'll never get me to agree otherwise.
Discuss.
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oh ok
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Shit, man. fucking West Side Story! It's good!
Boooooooooring. Maria, Maria, Maria, Maria, Maria, Maria.... boring.
Next!
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for hating musicals you sure know alot about them.
i don't even like/dislike musicals and i couldn't tell you the first thing about one except for that when i saw Rent, Scary Spice (yeah, really) mooned the whole audience.
and it was good.
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for hating musicals you sure know alot about them.
That's true. I hate musicals... my wife on the other hand, does not. Therefore, I know quite a bit about them, even though I despise them. The fact that she enjoys, and listens to, musicals might have, in some small way, contributed to my disdain for them.
Watch this: http://imdb.com/title/tt0308495/
Anything is possible, I suppose but I'd probably be more likely to re-watch Dune than watch that.
This is sort of fun... maybe you musical lovers should try and find a musical that I would actually watch. You could post links to it's IMDB page and then explain why I might actually like it. I promise to rent the DVD of the musical whose description sounds most badass (no lying!) and maybe, just maybe, if I actually like it, the person who wrote the description will get some sort of prize or something.
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Threads based entirely around complaining about something make the entire Internet cry.
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(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3248/220gb8.jpg)
Proven wrong.
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Inspired by a recent "Ask Jeph" post.
Why do you hate musicals?
Because they are bad
I'll admit that I actually have one musical that I enjoy, Hedwig and the Angry Inch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedwig_and_the_Angry_Inch_%28film%29) but that's the only one. Oklahoma can suck my ass (the state as well as the musical,) South Pacific can blow me and don't get me started on fucking Rocky Horror Picture Show. I was forced to sit through a group showing of that piece of crap and I actually fell asleep halfway through because it was so bad (and I was drunk.)
Musicals suck and unless it's the aforementioned Hedwig you'll never get me to agree otherwise.
Discuss.
I agree with your general stance on musicals, though I strongly disagree with your way of stating it.
I am an actor. I have participated in many productions at my high school, and I am planning on pursuing acting in college. I have been in about the same number of musicals as non-musicals, even though I consider myself an actor and not a singer by any means. I have participated in musicals because I have made a point of being in as many theatrical production as possible. Through my experiences I have drawn several conclusions as to why I have a general dislike of musicals:
-They place a premium on singing, too often forgetting that acting is what drives theatrical performance.
-They usually have terribly written plots (exceptions, see below).
-The music is often formulaic and not to my tastes (exceptions, again, see below).
The first and second are probably the two biggest reasons for me. I personally believe acting is the driving force behind live theater, and I dislike it when someone gets a role based on only their singing ability and not their acting ability, or when they lean heavily on singing to make their character, and ignore acting, Unfortunately, most musicals encourage this phenomenon by having terribly written librettos. I recently performed in The Secret Garden. The script had obviously been written as an afterthought to the music; the lines were simple, boring, uninspired, and at times so cliche that it was painful to listen to them. I believe that a truly great actor would have been able to make those lines seem so natural that the awkwardness of the script would melt away, but he/she would have to be truly great actor indeed.
An exception to these rules, in my opinion, is West Side Story (because it borrow practically its entire plot from Romeo and Juliet, which ironically Shakespeare jacked from someone else also; Leonard Bernstein also was a great composer). I also greatly enjoy the movie musical An American In Paris, because it has brilliant music by Gershwin and better writing (not to mention acting) than most other musicals. Finally, I consider My Fair Lady to be an absolutely first-rate piece of theater, because it builds on the already fantastic foundation of George Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion, adding fantastic music and incorporating Shaw's plot and even his exact words in to most of the songs and action. Also, there is more action and less singing, but when singing occurs it is memorable and effective. The movie version has skilled, believable, and genius performances by Rex Harrison and Audrey Hepburn.
Music-wise, I find most musical music to be simple, formulaic, and shallow. I don't find that most musicals are able to convey complex emotions through their music. I can't say that I have been challenged to think as much by a song from a musical than by a piece of music written outside the context of a musical. The exceptions are those previously noted.
I also think that something must be said for musicals which fully realize and own up to the fact that they are shallow entertainment and not art. I performed in a fantastic production of Anything Goes which had one purpose: to entertain the audience through silly singing and impressive dancing. It completed its purpose very well.
Andrew Lloyd Weber though. Geez. Nasty shit.
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Threads based entirely around complaining about something make the entire Internet cry.
The entire internet is based on complaining about stuff... it's what Al Gore invented it for.
Posts complaining about other people complaining are what make the entire internet cry. (Why did you capitalize "internet?" It isn't a proper noun, you know.)
Proven wrong.
Saw it, it sucked. Next!
I agree with your general stance on musicals, though I strongly disagree with your way of stating it.
I mean, I'm not writing a thesis here. I started this thread as a lark. I found what Jeph said amusing so I started a thread based on it. I'm not out here trying to defend the position, "Musicals Suck," with any seriousness but I do find them simplistic and they offend my musical tastes.
Why not make a thread about music-related things you enjoy instead?
Contribute something positive? I hadn't thought about that. I could try, I suppose... but wait, what if someone said something negative about something I liked? I just don't think I could take that kind of rejection, Doc. Oh, I could always move the conversation to ponies. Everyone loves ponies. Am I right?
EDIT: By the way, Anyways, that was your 2020th post. I don't know why but I think we need to get Hugh Downs up in this piece.
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The only two I enjoy are Urinetown and Spamalot.
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I can give Spamalot a pass, since it's a "musical" that's just songs from Monty Python. That's doesn't technically qualify, IMHO, but whatever.
So, there are two "musicals" I suppose are okay.
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I agree with your general stance on musicals, though I strongly disagree with your way of stating it.
I mean, I'm not writing a thesis here. I started this thread as a lark. I found what Jeph said amusing so I started a thread based on it. I'm not out here trying to defend the position, "Musicals Suck," with any seriousness but I do find them simplistic and they offend my musical tastes.
That's cool. I guess what I was trying to say was that the extended sexual metaphors were superfluous once you established that musicals sucked.
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Extended superfluous sexual metaphors are one of life's great pleasures when done correctly, my friend. Rereading my first post in this thread, it becomes apparent that, due most likely to the fact I am quite tired at present, my metaphors were rather pedestrian. You have my sincere apologies for the banal phrases which "graced" my opening post. I shall endeavor to use more inspired prose in the future.
Por ejemplo, instead of saying
Oklahoma can suck my ass
I should have said something along the lines of
Oklahoma can get anally molested (with no lube) by a herd of mad, frothing-at-the-mouth cows on the hottest, most wretchedly humid day of a Mississippi summer.
Now that's an superfluous extended sexual metaphor!
MOO!
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Rent. Les Miserables.
I love musicals.
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Rent... no.
Les Miserables? Not only no but hell to the no. Fist of all, it's title is in French. I do not speak French, I do not wish to learn French, I do not enjoy much French cooking and I think Le Tour Eiffel is affreux. Some of their music is okay, I really like French bread, their wine is amazing and they made one of my top ten favorite cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS) of all time... oh, sorry... I didn't mean that to turn into an indictment of French culture. I'm not one of those stupid French-hating red staters (though I do live in a red state, much to my chagrin) who wanted french fries to be called "freedom fries" even though "french" refers to the style of cut, or the manner of cooking, rather than the origin of said delicious snack, which may, in fact, be Belgium.
I might read the book but I don't think I'd ever watch the Les Miserables in musical form.
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Um, the reason the title is in French is because it was a French play. It's not French for no reason.
And have fun with that! The book is simply boring, overwrought with details, full of totally unnecessary description, and really just tedious. The musical is a much better way of taking in the wonderful story than reading several novels' worth of worthless descriptions of the Battle of Waterloo and other such insignificant (as far as the actual story) events.
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Rent is really one of the musicals that I despise.
As is Les Mis.
I do, however, approve of extended sexual metaphors when they are successfully deployed in full force. Bravo sir!
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So, all the songs and dialogue in Les Miserables is in French? Now I know I'm not seeing it. I can watch a lot of things with subtitles but not musicals.
Anime, yes. Hong Kong action flims, yes. Musicals, no.
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No, no, no! The original book was in French then translated. The book was then made into a French musical which has now been made into an English musical. So, if you go to West End or Broadway to see Les Mis, you'll get an English musical. If you go to France, you'll get it French. Obviously.
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Rent is the biggest pile of trash since Cats. It's one thing to adapt a piece of art to a musical, but it's another thing to butcher said artwork that wasn't very good to begin with. La Boheme is the worst opera Puccini ever did.
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The original book was in French then translated. The book was then made into a French musical which has now been made into an English musical.
So, if they translated it, why did they leave the title in French?
When they brought The Office over from the BBC, did they leave it in it's original language? No, they cast Steve Carell in place of Ricky Gervais and translated everything (including the title) into English. Is wanting them to do that with musicals too much to ask?
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... I think you're being ridiculous. Leaving the title in French reminds everyone that this is about France, it's set in France, it's about the life of French people.
Also, who wants to go see a play called The Poor?
There's nothing wrong with leaving the title in French. You're very biased against it for no good reason. It truly is an amazing work of art, French or English.
(P.S. The Office is The Office in Britain or America. They didn't change the title. It's the same language.)
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... I think you're being ridiculous.
Yes, quite.
You're very biased against it for no good reason. It truly is an amazing work of art, French or English.
I am biased against it but not because the title is French, just because Les Miserables is a musical.
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I am biased against it but not because the title is French, just because Les Miserables is a musical.
If that's so, then why did you go off about its Frenchness as soon as the name was mentioned?
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This is pretty much the stupidest thread in the entire forum right now.
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If that's so, then why did you go off about its Frenchness as soon as the name was mentioned?
Because, talking about the French is good material... I got to talk about french fries and Citroëns and, in the irony of all ironies, insult the Eiffel Tower in French. I was rather proud of that post, actually.
This is pretty much the stupidest thread in the entire forum right now.
I beg to differ, sir.
This thread might be somewhat pointless but it is fun. And, frankly, if it were as stupid a thread as you are insinuating, it would be here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/board,10.0.html).
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Yes, bashing things ignorantly is very amusing.
I'm going to start 50 threads about bands I hate now. Won't that be awesome.
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If that's so, then why did you go off about its Frenchness as soon as the name was mentioned?
Because, talking about the French is good material... I got to talk about french fries and Citroëns and, in the irony of all ironies, insult the Eiffel Tower in French. I was rather proud of that post, actually.
... It wasn't that great. It came off more as a silly rant.
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Showtunes is definitely one of those genres that gets orphaned when people claim to like all types of music except (x) and/or (y). It's up there with country music.
But more on topic, I think we should just talk about how much I hate an ethnic group. That'd be controversial, right? Generate some discussion?
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Yes, bashing things ignorantly is very amusing.
I'm not ignorant of musicals, I simply do not enjoy them.
I'm going to start 50 threads about bands I hate now. Won't that be awesome.
It might be awesome, depending on how you choose to discuss the bands you hate. What I can't figure out is if you think this is the stupidest thread in the forums right now, why you keep posting in it. If you don't like the thread, let it die.
... It wasn't that great. It came off more as a silly rant.
Ah, well, so be it. I can assure that my silly rants don't tend to contain the word "chagrin" or anything in French, typically. Usually there more about BS pop culture stuff. I could probably whip one up on Care Bears or something, if you're interested.
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i'm trying to figure out whether it would have been better for you to bitch about how much you hate musicals in the perfectly good musicals thread we already have, or to stink up the forum with an entirely new thread dedicated to talking about how shit they are.
I really can't decide! They're both terrible options!
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I don't want thiis thread to die because it is awesome to watch you make an ass of yourself.
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I also greatly enjoy the movie musical An American In Paris, because it has brilliant music by Gershwin
And lyrics by the "other" Gershwin! Why do people always forget about Ira? He was just as talented as George. Do people just forget about him because he didn't die tragically young? Show Ira Gershwin some love!
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I apologize, I should have written the Gershwins.
Also, this thread is home to what I think is a fairly well written investigation of musicals. Why can't we discuss why we dislike musicals in an intellectual manner similar to how I expressed my views?
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Oh man, this thread. It's both simultaneously hilarious to watch you dig a little hole for yourself and also make me want to say, "Fuck you, I like musicals." I understand they aren't for everyone, but until you (you as in people in general) actually see them, you do not know the difference between a good musical and a bad musical.
Les Miserables? Not only no but hell to the no. Fist of all, it's title is in French. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
This was probably one of the stupidest reasons I've ever heard for not wanting to see a musical. No shit the title is French, the book was French. It's a fantastic story and the music is amazing. Now if music from musicals isn't your thing, fine, then say that's the reason, but wasting time typing up a paragraph about how it's French when the musical itself is in ENGLISH makes no fucking sense.
So really, unless you want to get somewhere with this conversation, which as of now it doesn't look like you do, quit whining about it. Go outside and get some fresh air or something more worthwhile than trying to annoy people, which honestly is the only successful bit of this thread.
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Also, this thread is home to what I think is a fairly well written investigation of musicals. Why can't we discuss why we dislike musicals in an intellectual manner similar to how I expressed my views?
Not a bad idea but it is less fun than making sweeping generalizations using crude and descriptive adjectives.
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I'm more ambivalent about musicals than anything. I do love some musicals as I seem to remember having posted in the other musicals thread, but it's not a thing that interests me in itself, like say, cyberpunk silliness. As far as cyberpunk goes, I am a genre enthusiast. Musicals, not so.
I'm not entirely sure what it is about musicals, other than the best of them, that turns me off, but among the possible reasons is definitely (ha) the music.
More specifically: the vocal style of most musicals is tepid and unengaging. A lot of the time, the emphasis is on the lyrics because they're "clever" or they (almost) deliver a plot, so all the singing must be done in the most pure tone and with greatest care taken in enunciation. This is annoying.
Unless[/i]: the lyrics actually are clever and not trying to hard, or really do further a plot that makes it worth tolerating the singing and letting it grow on me. And sometimes: hey the songs, they got mad hooks.
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Oh man, this thread. It's both simultaneously hilarious to watch you dig a little hole for yourself and also make me want to say, "Fuck you, I like musicals." I understand they aren't for everyone, but until you (you as in people in general) actually see them, you do not know the difference between a good musical and a bad musical.
Les Miserables? Not only no but hell to the no. Fist of all, it's title is in French. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
This was probably one of the stupidest reasons I've ever heard for not wanting to see a musical. No shit the title is French, the book was French. It's a fantastic story and the music is amazing. Now if music from musicals isn't your thing, fine, then say that's the reason, but wasting time typing up a paragraph about how it's French when the musical itself is in ENGLISH makes no fucking sense.
So really, unless you want to get somewhere with this conversation, which as of now it doesn't look like you do, quit whining about it. Go outside and get some fresh air or something more worthwhile than trying to annoy people, which honestly is the only successful bit of this thread.
Why is it that everyone else is better at expressing my opinions in a more articulate, forceful way? Dammit.
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No shit the title is French, the book was French. It's a fantastic story and the music is amazing. Now if music from musicals isn't your thing, fine, then say that's the reason, but wasting time typing up a paragraph about how it's French when the musical itself is in ENGLISH makes no fucking sense.
Yes, I'm well aware that the musical, when seen in America and probably England, Scotland, Austrailia and any other primarily English-speaking country is going to be in English. Sarcasm must really be dead. And to be fair, "wasting time typing up a paragraph about how it's French when the musical itself is in ENGLISH makes no fucking sense" to you. I, on the other hand, am stuck at work so I am very, very bored and have consumed a large amount of coffee. My post about the French was more or less just something to do to amuse myself while I wait for the freedom I so desperately want.
So really, unless you want to get somewhere with this conversation, which as of now it doesn't look like you do, quit whining about it. Go outside and get some fresh air or something more worthwhile than trying to annoy people, which honestly is the only successful bit of this thread.
Again, I say, I cannot go outside and get some fresh air until I am done here and I'm not done here yet. I'm not trying to annoy people, I'm not simpleton internet troll who gets his jollies by making other people so angry over the internet that they have to type in all caps and end up hitting a lot of shift-1's instead of exclamation points. I'm trying to amuse myself and if other people are amused, great, if people are annoyed, so be it. I'm not going out of my way to annoy people but I'm not going out of my way not to, either.
And vgaer, I think you're plenty articulate.
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No shit the title is French, the book was French. It's a fantastic story and the music is amazing. Now if music from musicals isn't your thing, fine, then say that's the reason, but wasting time typing up a paragraph about how it's French when the musical itself is in ENGLISH makes no fucking sense.
Yes, I'm well aware that the musical, when seen in America and probably England, Scotland, Austrailia and any other primarily English-speaking country is going to be in English. Sarcasm must really be dead. And to be fair, "wasting time typing up a paragraph about how it's French when the musical itself is in ENGLISH makes no fucking sense" to you. I, on the other hand, am stuck at work so I am very, very bored and have consumed a large amount of coffee. My post about the French was more or less just something to do to amuse myself while I wait for the freedom I so desperately want.
So really, unless you want to get somewhere with this conversation, which as of now it doesn't look like you do, quit whining about it. Go outside and get some fresh air or something more worthwhile than trying to annoy people, which honestly is the only successful bit of this thread.
Again, I say, I cannot go outside and get some fresh air until I am done here and I'm not done here yet. I'm not trying to annoy people, I'm not simpleton internet troll who gets his jollies by making other people so angry over the internet that they have to type in all caps and end up hitting a lot of shift-1's instead of exclamation points. I'm trying to amuse myself and if other people are amused, great, if people are annoyed, so be it. I'm not going out of my way to annoy people but I'm not going out of my way not to, either.
Points taken. Caffeine + work = do pointless things for fun.
Edit: Though I must point out. You implied you meant your little rant sarcastically. But bear in my mind that sarcasm is difficult to interpret properly online.
And vgaer, I think you're plenty articulate.
:P Thanks. I try.
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Dear Mr. Hooligan,
I don't think a whole-hearted dismissal of an artform is strong boarding.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that
You better shape up,
'cause I need a man
and my heart is set on you.
You better shape up;
you better understand
to my heart I must be true.
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And what is fun and amusing for you is obviously painful to others. For example:
This is pretty much the stupidest thread in the entire forum right now.
i'm trying to figure out whether it would have been better for you to bitch about how much you hate musicals in the perfectly good musicals thread we already have, or to stink up the forum with an entirely new thread dedicated to talking about how shit they are.
I really can't decide! They're both terrible options!
Why can't we discuss why we dislike musicals in an intellectual manner similar to how I expressed my views?
I especially agree with the last one. If this thread was more like a debate and less "MUSICALS SUCK, FUCK YEAH, EVERYONE WHO LIKES THEM IS WRONG", I would probably have been much more interested in this and would post my thoughts about which musicals are good and why and which musicals are boring and why.
And I didn't call you a troll, notice, just an ass. And a lot of people who visit this forum post from work, but that do we post threads like this? I can't say that we do.
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I'm trying to amuse myself
I can't decide which response to go with so pick your own:
1. Give masturbation a shot.
2. You're trying way too hard.
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Dear Mr. Oxide,
Okay but can it be StrongBading (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail141.html)? And it wasn't whole hearted... I said liked one musical. Two, if you count Spamalot.
I'm assuming the part of your post in italics is from a musical? I'm vaguely turned on.
1. Give masturbation a shot.
Can't, I'm at work.
2. You're trying way too hard.
Either that or not hard enough.
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Anyways, why are we being so argumentative in this thread? after all,
Lord know's we've seen enough troubles already, we've
Had our fill of grey skies
So put down the vinegar, take up the honey jar
You'll catch many more flies
And if we all could spread a little sunshine
All could think before we strike
We all would be a little closer
To the world we'd like
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And what is fun and amusing for you is obviously painful to others.
The great thing about the internet is that they can choose to ignore me if they want.
"MUSICALS SUCK, FUCK YEAH, EVERYONE WHO LIKES THEM IS WRONG"
I never said everyone who likes them is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/) for Lemmy's sake.
And I didn't call you a troll, notice, just an ass.
And you were/are spot on, my fine feathered friend.
Anyways, why are we being so argumentative in this thread?
Oxide is correct. I will take my time and craft a well thought out, intelligent post about why I dislike musicals and any of you who choose to do so may rebut the argument. It won't be as fun and I won't get to use the colorful adjectives I love so much but I suppose it will have to do since I love QC and plan on being a member of this community for quite some time. T'would be a shame were I to be ostracized for this crap thread I created.
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Go ahead and write something clever. Then I'll rebut with clever words AND awesome musical quotes. :evil:
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Actually Hooligan, I was talking about you, you seem to be convinced that you can just whole-heartedly dismiss a genre because you dislike it
you should probably say to yourself sit down, sit down,
You're rockin' the boat!
[Say] to [your]self sit down, sit down, you're rockin' the boat
[or] the devil will drag you under
By the sharp lapel of your checkered coat,
Sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down,
Sit down you're rockin' the boat.
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I love QC and plan on being a member of this community for quite some time. T'would be a shame were I to be ostracized for this crap thread I created.
Maybe you should have lurked more first.
Or maybe you should aplogise and shut the fuck up, Donny.
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Dear IronOxide,
You kind of rock.
Sincerely,
Linds
Rancidhooligan, when typing a well thought out post, you can still use colorful adjectives. You can just use more of them and ones that sound better.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv1PRQWbRk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv1PRQWbRk)
nuff said. Major-General's Song is full of WIN.
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I apologize, I should have written the Gershwins.
Hehe, sorry if I came on a bit strong. It's just a pet peeve of mine when every man and his dog keeps on praising George Gershwin as if he was solely responsible for all the songs. I really can't understand why of all the Tin Pan Alley lyricists, Ira Gershwin is the one that people - even professional music critics and writers - always ignore.
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If you don't like this song you are a fag. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-qtYcEo6bM)
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Or maybe you should aplogise and shut the fuck up, Donny.
I appreciate the Big Lebowski reference and I apologise if anyone was genuinely offended by anything I've said as it was not my aim to offend anyone or hurt them so if that occured, then I apologise. However, I will not apologise for having an opinion nor will I shut the fuck up.
I feel that the musical genre, as a whole, is insipid, saccharine and formulaic. You may call this a generalization, and it is, there are musicals that defy the sugar sweet trappings of musical-dom, but they are few and far between. The aforementioned Hedwig, Cannibal and Spamalot. And while we're talking about Spamalot, can someone who actually likes musicals please tell me why it is acceptable to take a bunch of songs from an artist's repertoire and mish-mash them into a "musical?" Billy Joel's Movin' Out, for example?
All of the discussion in this thread has made me confront my musicalphobia and I think I've figured out why I hate them so much. There are always happy endings in musicals. Even endings that aren't what one might call traditionally "happy," such as Les Miserables, still have a sort of happy ending because the loose ends are tied up.
Hell, even RENT, where one of the characters dies of AIDS and you'd think would have a little big of harsh reality, has a happy ending because the character that dies tells the character that almost dies not to die and to go back.
I never intended to give it this much thought, frankly, and now that I'm off work and home, that's about all the thought I'm going to give it for tonight. I'm an unforgivable bastard with the brass of a riverboat gambler who types fast, that's it. I'm sarcastic as fuck but I'm not mean. What Jeph said made me laugh my ass off and I thought it deserved its own thread, so I made one.
The funniest part of this whole thing to me is that Anyways suggested I make a thread about music I like, so I did and that thread has six replies while this thread has 55 replies... that is negative reinforcement, kids. :-P
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv1PRQWbRk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv1PRQWbRk)
nuff said. Major-General's Song is full of WIN.
Seconded. Although technically it's an operetta. I actually saw this show this weekend and the Major-General didn't go that fast. It was sad.
Also, for everyone who still wants to diss West Side Story, go listen to Cool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkdP02HKQGc) right now. This song is fucking brilliant.
Also calling people fags is lame, even ironically.
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I am allowed to call people fags ironically because i'm about 5% fag myself. :-P
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The funniest part of this whole thing to me is that Anyways suggested I make a thread about music I like, so I did and that thread has six replies while this thread has 55 replies... that is negative reinforcement, kids. :-P
That is just not true, that is operant conditioning through positive reinforcement, as your sole concern seems to be attention, and therefore this thread is giving you more than your fair share. Negative reinforcement is when you reinforce a behavior by removing a negative stimulus (or punisher) when the positive behavior is exhibited.
I can't think of a musical that involves people being nit-picky about psychology terms. Sorry to disappoint.
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haha...I am glad it is only 5%, otherwise I might be a little bit worried!
P.S.
Tim Curry as Frank 'n Furter is sexy. I don't care who you are. And you all know it is true.
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Oh man, guys this thread is HILARIOUS, Rancid is desert dry deadpan. This is killing me.
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I feel that the musical genre, as a whole, is insipid, saccharine and formulaic. You may call this a generalization, and it is, there are musicals that defy the sugar sweet trappings of musical-dom, but they are few and far between. The aforementioned Hedwig, Cannibal and Spamalot.
Your forgetting West Side Story mister.
All of the discussion in this thread has made me confront my musicalphobia and I think I've figured out why I hate them so much. There are always happy endings in musicals. Even endings that aren't what one might call traditionally "happy," such as Les Miserables, still have a sort of happy ending because the loose ends are tied up.
Hell, even RENT, where one of the characters dies of AIDS and you'd think would have a little big of harsh reality, has a happy ending because the character that dies tells the character that almost dies not to die and to go back.
Again you forget West Side Story. The original show actually had Maria die too but everyone (critics) thought it was too depressing so they changed the script so she could live.
God I am becomming obsessed with this show goddamnit.
What Jeph said made me laugh my ass off and I thought it deserved its own thread, so I made one.
If this is why you are making a thread you need to reconsider when you make threads. Trust me on this one, it does not lead to good things. (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,19181.0.html)
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The fact that there are other people here who dislike musicals fills me with joy and a newfound sense of belonging. Insipid, Saccharine and Formulaic? Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Not one mention of Gilbert and Sullivan.
I'm so disappointed in all of you.
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Not one mention of Gilbert and Sullivan.
I'm so disappointed in all of you.
I did not list any musicals earlier, but as this thread is going somewhere, Pirates of Penzance is an outstanding musical.
I'll post more later when I have time to just make more than a list.
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That is just not true, that is operant conditioning through positive reinforcement, as your sole concern seems to be attention, and therefore this thread is giving you more than your fair share. Negative reinforcement is when you reinforce a behavior by removing a negative stimulus (or punisher) when the positive behavior is exhibited.
God damn, I just got pwned (or would it be psy-owned?) I can't believe I mixed those two up. Though attention isn't my sole concern. If it were, I could have posted about how I bought an Acura NSX with my winnings from an online casino (http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98489). I'm concerned with it, sure, because who wants to post threads no one reads?
Again you forget West Side Story. The original show actually had Maria die too but everyone (critics) thought it was too depressing so they changed the script so she could live.
So, how does this not constitute a happy ending? I mean, I'm all for "happy endings" (nudge-nudge, wink-wink) but not those involving changing the script so someone lives. If Maria had died, WSS very well could be in my list with Hedwig and Spamalot.
WSS is based on Romeo & Juliet, a play that I like, and it has gang warfare. It had the opportunity to rock, but the American public ruined it. "How do you solve a problem like Maria?" Let her live, apparently.
If this is why you are making a thread you need to reconsider when you make threads.
Perhaps, given the reaction to this one. Although, doesn't this forum exist in the first place because we all laughed our asses off at something Jeph said and/or wrote? I'll admit that the execution in this case was a bit off the mark but in the future I don't think that I'll use "something Jeph said/wrote that was amusing" as the sole criteria for posting or not posting thread.
I always forget that irony and sarcasm do not translate well to the written word, which is something I need to remember in a place like this.
His spelling and punctuation is good.
This is possibly the greatest compliment ever paid to me on an internet forum. Thank you.
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In my lurking, I have read about you.
You have shown me that I have much to learn, sensei.
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I still think musicals are pretty bad.
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That's just because cursory Googling reveals that nobody's written a black metal musical.
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That's just because cursory Googling reveals that nobody's written a black metal musical.
Questionable Content: The Musical
Dialogue by Jeph Jacques
Lyrics by Jeph Jacques and Tom Araya
Music by Tom Araya and Kerry King
Music Performed by Slayer
I could get behind something like that. While, technically, Slayer is thrash metal, rather than black metal, I think they'd be the best choice, especially since Faye (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=452) and Dora (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=116) both like Slayer. Though, since they are fictional characters, who knows?
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Just FYI rancid dude, being a regular in the music forum has little to no bearing on the actual comic. Some regulars don't even read it any more, and some don't like it much any more. I know it might not make much sense, but that's the way it is.
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Singin' in the Rain is easily one of the 5 best American movies ever made.
I wouldn't have had nearly as good a time flying to Korea if they hadn't had that as one of the in-flight movies.
Well, that, and the free beer.
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Just FYI rancid dude, being a regular in the music forum has little to no bearing on the actual comic. Some regulars don't even read it any more, and some don't like it much any more. I know it might not make much sense, but that's the way it is.
So, what? Some of the regular posters in the music forum don't read or like QC anymore? You're right, that doesn't make much sense but I can sort of see that happening over time.
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I would assume that everyone here read and liked QC at some point, but the music forum has become its own entity separate from the comic. Until you barged in, I can't even remember the last time anyone made any mention of the comic in here all year.
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Singin' in the Rain is easily one of the 5 best American movies ever made.
This statement is made of fail. I appreciate Singin' In The Rain, mostly because Gene Kelly is a god, but it is definitely not one of the best American movies ever made.
My proof? Original Star Wars + Indiana Jones gives you six films better than Singin' In The Rain, and those aren't the five best American films either.
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Until you barged in, I can't even remember the last time anyone made any mention of the comic in here all year.
What you are saying is pretty interesting, IMHO. Being that a lot of QCs content is discussion of music, although not as much now as in the past, I would think that there would be all manner of threads discussing the relationship between QC and music or directly relating to items appearing in the comic.
Original Star Wars + Indiana Jones gives you six films better than Singin' In The Rain, and those aren't the five best American films either.
This statement is made of win.
"No time for love, Dr. Jones..."
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I honestly can't remember the last time a QC strip featured anything more than a very vague, passing reference to music.
As has been pointed out to me, the average QC reader is apparently in highschool and doesn't really even know what "indie rock" is.
As a point of reference, I still read the strip but mostly just out of habit.
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Singin' in the Rain is easily one of the 5 best American movies ever made.
This statement is made of fail. I appreciate Singin' In The Rain, mostly because Gene Kelly is a god, but it is definitely not one of the best American movies ever made.
My proof? Original Star Wars + Indiana Jones gives you six films better than Singin' In The Rain, and those aren't the five best American films either.
Return of the Jedi?
Seriously?
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Return of the Jedi is better than Singin' in the Rain because Singin' in the Rain has neither Jedi nor Lando Calrissian.
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Return of the Jedi has Ewoks.
I mean, Indiana Jones films are mediocre, but Return of the Jedi is just goddam terrible
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Return of the Jedi has Ewoks.
Touché. I had forgotten about the Ewoks.
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Return of the Jedi is better than Singin' in the Rain because Singin' in the Rain has neither Jedi nor Lando Calrissian.
Go back and actually watch Star Wars some time. The dialogue is horrible in all of them; the lightsaber fights were horrible in the original three as well. The only thing Star Wars has going for it is the visuals, which are less than stellar these days. Star Wars may have been revolutionary for its time, but they're far from being passable movies.
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No, I'm sorry, the original Star Wars film is still a great social commentary and nice rip-off of Hidden Fortress.
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No, I'm sorry, the original Star Wars film is still a great social commentary and nice rip-off of Hidden Fortress.
This is an example of cognitive dissonance.
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And you are an example of "another new poster being a douchelord".
Damn, it goes in waves. We get a bunch of good new people here, then BAM! Shit-storm. What's up with that.
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And you are an example of "another new poster being a douchelord".
Damn, it goes in waves. We get a bunch of good new people here, then BAM! Shit-storm. What's up with that.
I'm mostly a lurker, I guess.
But how can Star Wars be both an excellent ripoff of a 20 yr old foreign film *and* excellent social commentary? That's a patently absurd statement.
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No, I'm sorry, the original Star Wars film is still a great social commentary and nice rip-off of Hidden Fortress.
The original Star Wars is the best of the series, but these days I find it hard to sit through any of them. After the god awful prequels I've lost all patience for Star Wars. The prequels made me appreciate the acting of the originals, but they also ruined the action for me.
I was unaware of the film Hidden Fortress until now; thank you for pointing that out. Perhaps I shall watch both Hidden Fortress and Star Wars and rethink my position on Star Wars.
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But how can Star Wars be both an excellent ripoff of a 20 yr old foreign film *and* excellent social commentary? That's a patently absurd statement.
Because it is possible to use elements from an older work while also using elements from the culture of the time?
Star Wars is definitely a rip-off of Hidden Fortress in many ways - even some of the same shots are used.
It is also definitely a commentary on rebellion and the establishment, drug/spiritual subculture and bureaucracy.
I'm not saying it's better at that than THX-1138 but he was still playing with those ideas.
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You people and your hating on Ewoks. Star Wars was good until Luke Skywalker got a nose job. The new trilogy was horrible until Yoda kicked some ass, some Jedi died, but then it went back to crap.
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the original Star Wars film is still a great social commentary
Really?
For a mainstream, pop-culture film, yes.
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no body can even think about posting in this forum until they watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekiT_J2Ocg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekiT_J2Ocg8)
Jeepers Creepers Semi Star
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Not one mention of Gilbert and Sullivan.
I'm so disappointed in all of you.
Fight you Johnny C!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv1PRQWbRk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv1PRQWbRk)
nuff said. Major-General's Song is full of WIN.
Seconded. Although technically it's an operetta. I actually saw this show this weekend and the Major-General didn't go that fast. It was sad.
TWO POSTS ON PIRATES OF PENZANCE!
WHAT!
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Fuck me for searching "Gilbert," "Sullivan" and "Penzance, right? *fist-shakin' emoticon*
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Personal dislike of musicals? I got no problem with that. I personally think that Andrew Lloyd Webber needs to be shot into the sun or something equally permanent.
Two things that might explain why there are all these musicals out there:
1) Money.
This is also what makes musicals bad. There's nothing like sentimentality and spectacle by the truckload to pack audiences into seats. Think of the zillion perfomances of "Cats" in eight cities for ten years or whatever the run was.
2) Sex.
{a} Musicals help audience people get laid. Compare taking a date to see "Equus" or "Medea" versus taking them to see "Avenue Q" or "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum".
{b} Musicals help theater people get laid. Putting historic Soviet tractor-factory plays on stage might be great theater, but it leaves the actors and crew grumpy and even alcohol won't help. Musicals generally have big happy casts and crews, and there's often an orchestra or band (and even occasionally dancers) to make sure to take to the after-show parties.
p.s. Do not underestimate the importance of 2{b}.
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...This thread makes me want to cry.
I'm not sure if you've even given musicals enough of a chance --can you even hear them with your head that far up your own ass?
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Avenue Q.
That's the one about the gay puppets, right? I'll honestly say that one intrigued me. I haven't seen it but I might... it could very well be added to the list.
2) Sex.
{a} Musicals help audience people get laid.
If this is true, I'm all for it. If there's one thing people in this world need, it's more sex. People are too uptight, sex calms them down. I can only see this as a good thing.
can you even hear them with your head that far up your own ass?
What a creative and intelligent remark. You have changed my mind, ThePQ4, I now love musicals and would die to protect them as if they were my own family. If I had known that all I would have to do was take my head out of my ass to hear the wonderful musicals, I would have done it sooner.
Thank you for this epiphany.
:roll:
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This thread.
Seriously, this fucking thread.
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What about it?
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It's kind of shit, that's what.
(And yet, we can't stop posting it in because it infuriates us so...apparently)
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2) Sex.
{a} Musicals help audience people get laid. Compare taking a date to see "Equus" or "Medea" versus taking them to see "Avenue Q" or "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum".
{b} Musicals help theater people get laid. Putting historic Soviet tractor-factory plays on stage might be great theater, but it leaves the actors and crew grumpy and even alcohol won't help. Musicals generally have big happy casts and crews, and there's often an orchestra or band (and even occasionally dancers) to make sure to take to the after-show parties.
p.s. Do not underestimate the importance of 2{b}.
It's so true. Our cast party for My Fair Lady was one of the most sloppy fun times ever. Like....woah.
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Seriously, this fucking thread.
(http://images.43things.com/entry/00/00/46/18004s.jpg)
There has been too much violence, too much pain.
None here are without sin.
But I have an honorable compromise.
Just walk away... Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
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"It's not really okay to date your sister."
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"That's no moon."
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"No matter how many times your dad tries to kill you, he's still a pretty ok guy deep down"
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Can you explain the 'great social commentary' in Star Wars?
"Great" is obviously an exagerration, but the whole film pretty much encapsulates the vibe of early-70s America WRT, as I said before, the "establishment", rebellion, drug and spiritual subcultures, control and bureaucracy.
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because star wars isn't at all a musical:
Evil Dead: The Musical
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrDui7xeGv0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrDui7xeGv0)
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Can you explain the 'great social commentary' in Star Wars?
"Great" is obviously an exagerration, but the whole film pretty much encapsulates the vibe of early-70s America WRT, as I said before, the "establishment", rebellion, drug and spiritual subcultures, control and bureaucracy.
How? I would contend that it is far too polarized to discuss those times at all.
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Can you explain the 'great social commentary' in Star Wars?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1lYCbjzQ4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1lYCbjzQ4I)
(Warning: may not make sense to people outside Australia.)
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How? I would contend that it is far too polarized to discuss those times at all.
Are you familiar with the concept of allegory?
The Empire = The State. Bureaucracy. Control. The same way he explored it in THX-1138, only with costumes on. The denial of the spiritual in favour of a purely utilitarian ethic.
The Rebellion = Uh, rebellion. Protest. The acknowledgment of variety in the human experience. Individuality.
Obi Wan Kenobi = Timothy Leary or any other spiritual guru archetype of the time. Opening Luke's eyes to "the Force", an unscientific hippie-dippie force of unifying energy that runs throughout all life.
Han Solo = Moral greyness; the concept of being a good person who does "bad" things because of a stifling and oppressive system.
Etc., Etc.
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Bat Boy: The Musical is pretty good.
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How? I would contend that it is far too polarized to discuss those times at all.
Are you familiar with the concept of allegory?
The Empire = The State. Bureaucracy. Control. The same way he explored it in THX-1138, only with costumes on. The denial of the spiritual in favour of a purely utilitarian ethic.
The Rebellion = Uh, rebellion. Protest. The acknowledgment of variety in the human experience. Individuality.
Obi Wan Kenobi = Timothy Leary or any other spiritual guru archetype of the time. Opening Luke's eyes to "the Force", an unscientific hippie-dippie force of unifying energy that runs throughout all life.
Han Solo = Moral greyness; the concept of being a good person who does "bad" things because of a stifling and oppressive system.
Etc., Etc.
What does Han Solo do that's bad? Not take a freaking space freighter on the initial Death Star attack?
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Han Solo is introduced as a criminal.
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I, for one it seems, really like Star Wars just because it's so damn kitsch. Never thought about that one Jackie.
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I personally like Star Wars because lightsabers are cool, space combat is awesome, the Force is sweet and Han Solo kicks a million kinds of ass.
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Argh. Just, argh.
it's what Al Gore invented it for.
I'm assuming this is a joke.
(Why did you capitalize "internet?" It isn't a proper noun, you know.)
Internet is a proper noun because it refers to a specific iteration of an interconnected network.
Musicals suck and unless it's the aforementioned Hedwig you'll never get me to agree otherwise. Discuss.
Why would we want to try to change your admitted unchangeable subjective opinion? I like musicals and I have better things to do with my time than try to change your mind. After being away from the board for a few weeks, it's depressing this is what I come back to.
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Inspired by this thread, and a sense of "Perhaps I'll be able to appreciate musicals more now that I've gotten a bit older and gotten into some more music", I actually rented West Side Story last night, and watched the whole thing.
To put it simply, it was a painful experience.
Yes, the songs are well written and catchy and so on, and the plot and acting certainly wasn't too bad. But as a whole it's just so freaking awkward. The songs are unwelcome breaks in the movie, sound terrible (I guess I'm not "eclectic" or "open-minded" enough for terrible 50's pop tunes), and as a whole the movie dragged out and was quite insufferable. From what I understand, WSS was/is supposed to be one of the best musicals ever, and if that's the best that this genre can give, well, here's hoping that no musical is ever released again.
The only song that wasn't epic fail in a musical was 'Climb every mountain' from The Sound of Music, which is undeniably huge. Other then that, though, this genre of films was terrible and I'm glad that it's dying out- well, in Hollywood anyway.
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Probably because it's a lot of bullshit?
You're right, tommy. Analysing pop culture is stupid. Whatever was I thinking.
:roll:
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Argh. Just, argh.
You okay? Sounds like you stubbed your toe.
I'm assuming this is a joke.
You assume correctly.
Internet is a proper noun because it refers to a specific iteration of an interconnected network.
Well I'll be damned, I never knew that. Guess I lose grammar points for that one... oh wait, there's still some debate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_capitalization_conventions) on whether to capitalize it or not. If The London Times doesn't capitalize it, I sure as hell don't see why I have to. :roll:
Why would we want to try to change your admitted unchangeable subjective opinion?
Well, you probably wouldn't. I had actually changed my mind and had decided to try and watch some musicals which might alter my perception of them... but no one took me up on my offer. Nothing is absolute, by the way... people change their minds all the time.
I like musicals and I have better things to do with my time than try to change your mind.
I don't and I have better things to do than watch a bunch of them.
After being away from the board for a few weeks, it's depressing this is what I come back to.
What difference does it make what you think about musicals? Can you not see this thread has been hijacked and is now about the social relevance of the Star Wars trilogy? And frankly, if me thinking musicals suck is enough to depress you, I highly suggest you up your meds because, sandman, there's a helluva lot more depressing shit out there than this my friend.
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RH, you are a very good person and I like you a lot (even though my knowledge of you is solely based on this thread). We should have sex sometime, or at least have some heavy petting sessions.
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Can you not see this thread has been hijacked and is now about the social relevance of the Star Wars trilogy?
Actually I am only talking about the first film, not the entire trilogy.
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I don't think this thread is suited for the music forum in the first place, since Mr. OP was complaining about musicals as a whole, not just the songs in them.
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Throwing stones in glass houses...
Is fun!
As for Star Wars, I think this discussion would probably be better suited for the movies subforum, wouldn't you agree?
Really, though? Do we really want to start an officially sanctioned discussion of the social implications of Star Wars in the movie forum? I mean, extracating oneself from a land war in Asia is easier than getting out of a "discussion" of Star Wars on the internet. They just don't end well.
However, this is the most well-mannered discussion of Star Wars I've ever seen. No one is threatening to turn anyone else into Batha fodder, no one is accusing anyone else of conspiring with the Jawas and no one has called anyone else "Jar-Jar," so maybe it's a good idea. Dunno. That's up for the mods to decide, I guess.
On a side note, I just realized that "conspiring with the Jawas" sounds like a sexual position from the Kama Sutra or something.
I don't think this thread is suited for the music forum in the first place, since Mr. OP was complaining about musicals as a whole, not just the songs in them.
So, report it and have it moved.
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I don't think I need to report a thread that at least two mods have already posted in.
I don't believe in reporting threads anyway. Like someone else said, it's more fun to watch you make an ass out of yourself. Also, your attempts to be witty and amusing fail so bad they are, in fact, amusing.
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Also, your attempts to be witty and amusing fail so bad they are, in fact, amusing.
That's your opinion. Other members have expressed different opinions... but I care not. I'm here to amuse myself, not you.
Like someone else said, it's more fun to watch you make an ass out of yourself.
It wasn't someone else who said that, it was you.
I don't want thiis thread to die because it is awesome to watch you make an ass of yourself.
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You're right, it was someone else who said it's fun to watch you dig yourself a deeper hole.
And it sure is. I will never get tired of "I'm just here to amuse myself; I don't actually care" threads. They are so ripe with denial!
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You know, this thread could have worked if you stopped dragging it around in circles. (This is not to one specific person, but to everyone, maybe even including me, who derailed it as soon as it started to get somewhere.) Really, this could be an interesting topic, as it seems there are both pro- and anti-musical people posting here.
Inspired by this thread, and a sense of "Perhaps I'll be able to appreciate musicals more now that I've gotten a bit older and gotten into some more music", I actually rented West Side Story last night, and watched the whole thing.
To put it simply, it was a painful experience.
As a fan of musicals, most people are confused when I say this, but I actually don't really care about West Side Story. I never really was a fan of Romeo and Juliet or any story like that and putting it in a different era and adding songs didn't really make it any better. "I Feel Pretty" is one of the few songs I like, but this may be because I think it can be funny.
I hate to make a list, but I'm going to anyways so I can say which musicals I do and don't like (that I have personally seen or performed) that won't take a really long time to read:
Barnum - did this freshman year of high school. Though it was fun to be in, it's kind of boring. I was a clown and got to goof off, so this is the only reason I enjoyed it. The songs are ok, but not spectacular.
My Fair Lady - both saw and performed this. Overall, I really enjoy this musical. I like the songs and I think it's fun.
Guys and Dolls - I hate this musical. I hated being in it even more.
The Music Man - same thoughts as My Fair Lady. Fun to be in and fun to watch.
Phantom of the Opera - Beautiful music, especially Music of the Night. It has some eh moments, but overall I really like it. The movie version sucks hardcore though. They should have gotten better singers.
Pirates of Penzance - It is made of Awesome, even if it is an operetta.
Cinderella - Even though when I saw this Cinderella had a very obvious and highly annoying lisp...well, wait. This musical sucks, I hate it. The girl who played Cinderella just made me hate it even more.
Les Miserables - Beautiful story and music.
Victor Victoria - Fun musical about cross dressers. What's not to like?
Fiddler on the Roof - Another fun, enjoyable musical.
The Scarlet Pimpernel - Very funny. It's like Pirates of Penzance but without the pirates and more French revolution. So like Les Miz but funny, or something. I dunno. But I liked this one a lot.
The Wizard of Oz - I don't get how people don't like this musical.
The Sound of Music - See above.
Mamma Mia! - I happened to enjoy this musical. If you don't like ABBA, I can see why it'd be annoying, but it's still a funny musical. I mean, there's a scene where guys in wetsuits and flippers are dancing around on stage.
The Lion King - Pretty cool musical. If you like the Disney movie, you'd probably like this musical. Also the costumes are really cool.
Cats - I really like the music and the costumes. The story itself is somewhat dry, but everything else I really enjoy.
Bye, Bye Birdie - Eh. It's ok. It's better than some musicals and has its fun moments, but Birdie annoys me. A lot.
Peter Pan - I prefer this as a play, to be honest.
Those are the ones I remember right now. I may or may not have seen more, I just need to remember them.
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I honestly cannot see what people like about Andrew Lloyd Weber. Phantom is really just a terrible show in my opinion, and I can't stand the music.
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Never underestimate the power of a creepy guy in a cool mask.
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It's personal preference. I have the book, so I need to read it at some point.
But here's some I forgot (and I'm sure there will be more):
Avenue Q - Hilarious and I love the songs.
Wicked - I like it, though I am very partial to the book. "What is This Feeling?" is an awesome song though.
Rocky Horror Picture Show - If you don't like it, I completely understand, but I happen to enjoy it. Also, seeing people dress up to go to these shows is probably one of the funniest things ever. Hehehe.
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See, Rocky Horror is one of those things that I simply cannot understand people disliking, unless they're rabidly homophobic or sexually repressed in some manner. I've never heard someone explain why they don't like at least the film version in a way that is comprehensible.
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The Rocky Horror Picture Show lacks any sort of discernable plot and the music is unforgivably bad, in my humble opinion. That's why I don't like it.
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I have a limit for how much camp I can take.
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Han Solo is introduced as a criminal.
Right after the law is introduced as evil incarnate.
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QUIT BELITTLING MY HOBBIES TOMMYDSKI
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Trying to force additional meaning
Who says I'm forcing anything? For me, pop-culture analysis is second nature. It just naturally occurs to me. It's not something I consciously put effort into.
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I suppose you misunderstand me. I don't like Star Wars because of any symbolic meaning I see in it - I was, what, 2 when it came out and saw it dozens of times as a child obviously without any thought about that kind of stuff.
I just appreciate it more because it is my perception - which could be wrong - that Lucas was trying to play with some cultural tropes. Given that he had just done THX-1138, I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to think he may have wanted there to be some element of allegorical relationship to the times he was making the film in.
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well Lucas has said he based Star Wars on Jason Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces which is a pretty big commentary on how myths are central to certain societies.
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For me, pop-culture analysis is second nature. It just naturally occurs to me. It's not something I consciously put effort into.
For as much as you seem to dislike me, we're not so dissimilar, you and I.
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You're right, you both showed up on the forum out of the blue with pretensions to iconoclasm and a very high regard for your own opinion.
Hopefully the similarity bears out and you mellow out a bit as you accrue time here.
Jackie, there's no doubt that there's a lot going on underneath the surface of Star Wars (particularly the first film), e.g; The Joseph Campbell connection and the homages to Kurosawa and 50's matinée serials among other things and some of the allegories you're discussing are certainly there (I'd be willing to dispute the drug/Tim Leary references), but I would by no means call Star Wars a "great" social commentary.
As tommy said, these elements are pretty prevalent in almost any film if you're willing to view the film through a certain lens, and Star Wars definitely doesn't do it any better than any other film. Of course, there are a lot of things Star Wars does do a lot better than other films, and some of them are pretty ponderous, so it's not like Star Wars doesn't have it's fair share of intellectual chops.
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For as much as you seem to dislike me, we're not so dissimilar, you and I.
Yeah, but I'm funnier.
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Guys, guys -- I think we can all agree that all musicals are exactly the same. It's okay to hate them all as a group because there are no different styles or genres when it comes to musical theatre. Assassins is exactly the same as Hello Dolly. Rent is actually Oklahoma, note-for-note. Stories told through music is just an inferior form of art, seriously. They're all the same, just like all minorities.
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We might as well just all get naked and watch television if we were going to waste our time on musicals
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GURR BLURR
Oh I get it, you're a troll.
How adorable.
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Oh I get it, you're a troll.
How adorable.
(http://www.trollbabies.com/trolls/MVC-407Fmb.jpg)
Come on, tell me those aren't adorable!
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Those aren't adorable.
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That didn't seem like trolling to me, it seemed like sarcasm (but I could be wrong).
I loved Les Miserables, although I think I only saw the short version. The thing I don't like about musicals in general, from my limited knowledge of them, is that the songs come totally randomly and seem a bit misplaced. Les Miserables is all song, pretty much, so there isn't the same jump from normal dialogue to oddly placed melody.
But I didn't like West Side Story. I'm not really sure why. And I have to agree, Rocky Horror Picture Show is terrible. I was forced to watch it at least three times at parties (well, I say forced... no one pinned me down, but there wasn't much else to do) and I never understood why it's a cult classic. Even if it did have Meatloaf in it (briefly).
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I saw it as sarcasm, too.
Stories told through music is just an inferior form of art, seriously.
You probably don't like opera then, huh.
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I saw it as sarcasm, too.
Stories told through music is just an inferior form of art, seriously.
You probably don't like opera then, huh.
You're correct in catching the sarcasm, good man. I'm actually a sucker for a good musically-told story. As for opera, I'm not too into it, but I really like La Boheme. Me and my friends might see Verdi's Falstaff in the near future.
Rocky Horror Picture Show is terrible. I was forced to watch it at least three times at parties (well, I say forced... no one pinned me down, but there wasn't much else to do) and I never understood why it's a cult classic. Even if it did have Meatloaf in it (briefly).
Agreed. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Tim Curry (except for Clue)...but even Meat Load couldn't salvage Rocky Horror.
As for West Side Story, that one's a particular taste, you either love it or hate it. I personally like it, though I would see why someone else wouldn't. Les Mis is fucking brilliant.
But in all honesty, musicals are just one format. To say all musical theatre is terrible is like saying all movies are terrible, or that all books are terrible. There are some you'll like and some you won't; give them a fair chance and you'll figure out your tastes. There's as much division over fans of particular plays as there is over fans of particular bands. It's just a different media is all; to umbrella them all as shit is just ignorance.
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You're correct in catching the sarcasm, good LADY.
:-D
Opera is give or take, it's ok. The Magic Flute, however, is always good.
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You're correct in catching the sarcasm, good LADY.
:-D
Opera is give or take, it's ok. The Magic Flute, however, is always good.
Well, I'm an asshole...heh, sorry about that.
I almost saw The Magic Flute! I couldn't go at the last minute.
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Haha gender confusion FTW.
I saw Los Noches (that might not be the right spelling) and something where two people fall in love and then they both die (that would be all operas, then?) with my school and enjoyed them, but personally I prefer to understand what's going on through the words, so it limits me to english operas only. I also finding watching most kinds of dance fairly dull, and listening to instrumental music. I think I just prefer words.
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I can't get into operas, no matter how hard I try.
I remember watching a really, really good production of Cosi (by some high class european symphony, forget which one though) and I was bored to tears. I think that fact that they literally SING THE WHOLE TIME makes it really hard for me take.
Opera sucks.
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Stories told through music is just an inferior form of art, seriously.
You probably don't like opera then, huh.
Or Bob Dylan or Nick Cave or John Darnielle or etc etc etc
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I really really liked Jesus Christ Superstar.
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That's odd... the song of that name (I haven't seen the musical) is possibly my least favourite song ever. We sang it at choir and it wasn't much fun.
Edit: I may have seen Andrew Lloyd Webber in Manchester two weeks ago. Does that make me cool?
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Godspell = possibly the worst musical ever created. Hitler in Spring time would be worse if it were real, but it's not.
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Stories told through music is just an inferior form of art, seriously.
You probably don't like opera then, huh.
Or Bob Dylan or Nick Cave or John Darnielle or etc etc etc
Except that those artists ROCK, and write great music, whereas most musical music is formulaic, superficial shit.
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Clearly you've never heard Laibach's version of "Jesus Christ Superstar".
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Stories told through music is just an inferior form of art, seriously.
You probably don't like opera then, huh.
Or Bob Dylan or Nick Cave or John Darnielle or etc etc etc
Except that those artists ROCK, and write great music, whereas most musical music is formulaic, superficial shit.
Hey, I love Dylan too, but if you're gonna complain about formulaic music, little Bobby Zimmerman's one of the worst offenders.
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Opera fucking rocks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxc8ZY0plM4)
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Made my day.
God, that was amazing.
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I thought you were going to post the Willy the Whale Cartoon... ahem...
Part 1... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ9N5KH0Go)
Part 2... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAm-pcS1whg)
(better... though the O'Reilly thing was pretty good)