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Fun Stuff => CLIKC => Topic started by: est on 28 Apr 2008, 18:36

Title: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 28 Apr 2008, 18:36
Interview with Chet from Valve: http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2008/04/28/left4dead-interview-chet-faliszek/1

4-person co-op Zombie Apocalypse FPS from Valve!  Seems like it has potential, even with the bullshit "fast zombies" decision.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 28 Apr 2008, 19:03
Pretty sure it's been covered somewheres.

And I wouldn't buy an FPS that consisted entirely of regular headcrab zombies. They're manageable enough as it is with one player. Speeding up the zombies is necessary for a more satisfying multiplayer experience.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 28 Apr 2008, 19:17
I am a ridiculously huge fan of all things zombies, as are many people on this forum.  They just released a slew of screenshots last week, I can't fucking wait.  And don't knock the decision to use fast zombies.  I've seen some footage of this in action, and I'd wager it's scarier and more fun this way.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 28 Apr 2008, 19:33
I was actually one of the first guys outside of Valve to playtest the game, and it is by far one of the most intense co-op experiences I've ever had. Made of fun and win, friends.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 28 Apr 2008, 20:15
FUCK YOU FOR HAVING THE JOB I WANT.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 29 Apr 2008, 07:17
From what I've read, the game is essentially Gears of War with zombies.

That gets no complaints from me.

Also, lest we forget: Examinus (http://www.exanimusthegame.com/) will totally rock your face off, too.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fod on 04 May 2008, 15:00
I read an article about it in a magazine somewhere, it was still early days but the game sounds decent enough even if the characters are just copy and pasted from Marvel comics "Most brooding character" wall...
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Red Peril on 05 May 2008, 14:39
I read an article about it in a magazine somewhere, it was still early days but the game sounds decent enough even if the characters are just copy and pasted from Marvel comics "Most brooding character" wall...


That still makes them deeper than the average computer games character (who often has no body at all, Gordon Freeman is just a head in a floating jar).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 05 May 2008, 15:40
I read an article about it in a magazine somewhere, it was still early days but the game sounds decent enough even if the characters are just copy and pasted from Marvel comics "Most brooding character" wall...


That still makes them deeper than the average computer games character (who often has no body at all, Gordon Freeman is just a head in a floating jar).

The Free Man Lives!  Heretic!
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 05 May 2008, 16:03
FUCK YOU FOR HAVING THE JOB I WANT.

EA sucks. Only reason I get to playtest is from being in the same anti-team as a VALVe dev.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 05 May 2008, 16:48
Any job that lets me playtest that game is fucking rad.  I'll settle for Civ 5, though.  Hopefully.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 05 May 2008, 21:02
I'm fairly certain L4D will be a massive sleeper hit, like CS was originally. It's unfortunately limited to 4 players (8 if you count master zombies, but those are more like an added bonus than the main role of the game), but I think that will only increase its popularity as client-hosted matches pop up.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 05 May 2008, 22:13
It's only four players, but doesn't that mesh much better with the "survivor horror" playstyle?  "Our horde vs. the zombie horde" isn't so much with the horror.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Johnny C on 06 May 2008, 09:46
Come to think of it though, survivor mob vs. zombie horde would be pretty fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 06 May 2008, 13:49
I do agree that the player limit is more fitting with the survival horror theme, but it's still unfortunate that we won't be able to game with all of our buddies at once. GTA IV has spoiled me in that regard.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 06 May 2008, 16:31
GOD FUCK you just reminded me how much i love that book. i need to re-read that shit pronto.

also, i am ridiculously excited for this game. valve+zombies+online cooperative survivalism= glory. the screens and videos do make it look a little...i dunno..."meh"...but i'm gonna go ahead and give valve the benefit of the doubt and be stoked anyway.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 06 May 2008, 17:00
Did you see that one from...I can't remember the name of it.  There was a huge convention and there were some crappy camera views of it, but it was still awesome.  It was friggin' sweet.  And the new screenshots showing off the cornfield zombies were also awesome.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 14 Sep 2008, 14:34
Is this the most current Left 4 Dead thread? Anywho, Gametrailers has a new little snippet of info / footage of player-controlled zombie action (http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailerstv_player.php?ep=38&ch=1&sd=1).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Trollstormur on 15 Sep 2008, 02:15
Also, lest we forget: Examinus (http://www.exanimusthegame.com/) will totally rock your face off, too.


I wish I had millions of dollars to invest all over this game.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 15 Sep 2008, 20:58
Oh, how'd I miss this the first time round? I'm looking forward to this game so much, though I wish there were more guns than there will be according to wikipedia.

And yes, survivor horde vs zombie horde would be cool. I don't have that book, though.

edit: And the outlines of allies through walls is a good idea, will reduce friendly fire and help keep people together.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: justlikeaphoto on 17 Sep 2008, 07:34
Left 4 Dead will be one of the greatest games of this year.  I'll probably end up picking up both the PC and the Xbox 360 version because I want the map editor but I also want in game voice chat.  Using canned responses on PC games has always been something that irritates me, regardless of how easy it is to use or how many different options there are.

November 18th won't come soon enough.

On said note, both WWZ and TZSG are amazing books.  +10 for anyone who reads them.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 17 Sep 2008, 07:55
Keep in mind that most PC users have microphones these days, and that L4D on the PC will fully support in-game voice communication. Considering that this is a game that focuses heavily on cooperation, I'd imagine it'll be an odd sight to see anyone without a mic.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 17 Sep 2008, 08:20
*raises hand*

I still don't have a mic for my PC.  I keep seeing reasons I need to get one, but I'm fucking broke.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: justlikeaphoto on 17 Sep 2008, 11:14
Of course most PC owners have mics, and obviously the game is built around the idea of copperation, however when I was reading up on the PC version (which has been nearly constant since I first heard of the game well over a year ago) the canned response tidbit was a piece I kept comming across.

My guess is it'll be similar to what they did for say Unreal Tournament 3 on the PC, have VOIP in the game, push to talk (which I also hate) and also have the canned responses.  Granted most seriously gamers that play with a regular group of people us Vent or X-Fire at the very least but I'll put money down that the number of people using microphones on L4D will be far less then the number that aren't.

Edit: On a side note, in my first post it was supposed to read "+ 10 to anyone who has read it" but oddly enough it seems to have changed into something totally different.  Hm.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 17 Sep 2008, 11:46
that would be the word filter. not sure why it filters out "plus one" though.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 17 Sep 2008, 11:53
On more stupider boards people will just post
Quote from: forum yokel
+1
to indicate to others that they have added to their postcount. It's one of those things idiots do, like "first" posts. Haven't seen it around here, though. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum sections.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 17 Sep 2008, 21:04
I had a mic, and used it for a while. Then the headset died, and I got a new computer, and could never figure out how to set up my new one, and never really got around to trying to find out how, and now the headset that I had been using for almost a year (I think) died, and I am using headphones from my .mp3 player until I can afford a new headset. This game in particular, though, seems to need a mic, since you don't want to stop even for a few seconds, even on Planetside I had time to type something quick.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 17 Sep 2008, 21:14
Of course most PC owners have mics, and obviously the game is built around the idea of copperation, however when I was reading up on the PC version (which has been nearly constant since I first heard of the game well over a year ago) the canned response tidbit was a piece I kept comming across.

My guess is it'll be similar to what they did for say Unreal Tournament 3 on the PC, have VOIP in the game, push to talk (which I also hate) and also have the canned responses.  Granted most seriously gamers that play with a regular group of people us Vent or X-Fire at the very least but I'll put money down that the number of people using microphones on L4D will be far less then the number that aren't.

Edit: On a side note, in my first post it was supposed to read "+ 10 to anyone who has read it" but oddly enough it seems to have changed into something totally different.  Hm.

The system they're talking about for "canned responses" is extremely similar to the one they introduced in Team Fortress 2, which uses game-side stimuli to trigger responses like "Reloading!" or "Medic!!". The same thing is being implemented in L4D, and functions on a much higher level than in TF2. These are not simply "canned responses", and if you ever say as much to a Mr. Eric Smith he'll smite you over the head and start reading C# headers to you at a loud volume.

While I understand that push-to-talk might be irritating, what's worse is some idiot with his microphone on talking to his mother (Xbox), his boyfriend (PS3, sick burn!), or his computer (PC).

In any case, although there might be a lower percentage of people on the PC using microphones, I can almost guarantee that there are more mature, teamwork-oriented people in that percentile than over Xbox Live.


This isn't, of course, trying to instigate a flamewar, because I love my 360 to death. But while we're at it, we may as well have a meaningful conversation about communication over platforms, and in doing so might get you to horde the PC version and come play with us when it ships.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 17 Sep 2008, 21:56
I think the communication largely depends on who you play with.  If you're playing with someone who's in a clan, they're much more likely to not be a dick.  Or someone who's just older.  Which is generally who I play with, anyway.  I haven't really come across any idiots on Xbox Live since I got my 360.  Except in Halo 3, but typically only if I'm playing with a friend.  I'm wondering if that 'gamer zone' thing actually exerts an influence over who I get matched up with?  Perhaps my friend's is set to Underground/Pro and takes precedence over mine (Recreation)?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 18 Sep 2008, 01:13
pro tip - when using a PC mic, use the mouse wheel button as the toggle!

And if you don't know, now you know.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: FireAarro on 18 Sep 2008, 04:17
On more stupider boards people will just post
Quote from: forum yokel
+1
to indicate to others that they have added to their postcount. It's one of those things idiots do, like "first" posts. Haven't seen it around here, though. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum sections.

I thought + 1 meant "I agree with this".
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 18 Sep 2008, 07:39
Actually, no it isn't wrong. Both definitions are correct and commonly used:

Quote
A jargon term, used to agree with the parent post and show support. The use stems from moderation tactics of some forums in which points are awarded to posts as a way of rating them. Also used to denote a message board post made for no other reason than to raise the user's post count.

While I don't tend to like citing Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2B1), I'm pretty sure it's as valid a source as any when it comes to internet terminology.

It all depends on the forums you go to, really.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 18 Sep 2008, 10:34
Okay, so I am very excited about this game, it seems like its gonna be a great jump out of the dark frenetic gameplay that's actually going to stay scary. But does anyone know how many people its going to support on the same console? I mean, it would absolutely amazing if it supported four people like it should, and its graphics aren't really up to par with a game like Gears of War where they capped it at two people per console just so you could get the detail. I have a 42" plasma and three friends who love co-op and so I four-screen split is a bit of a plus for me here.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 18 Sep 2008, 15:50
4 is definitely out. 2 is a big maybe.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Storm Rider on 18 Sep 2008, 19:34
I don't think I've heard Valve say a word about split-screen play, but I'd say it's unlikely. Remember that Valve is a PC developer first, and split-screen is a complete non-issue for the PC game. If they added in features to the console versions that aren't in the PC version, it'd be a major departure, since it's taken them this long to just get to the point where the console versions are even in the same league as the PC product.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 18 Sep 2008, 20:39
I hadn't heard directly from Valve, but I've read that the console versions will have split-screen play.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Harun on 01 Nov 2008, 13:18
bump for this (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/left4dead/video/6200402/left-4-dead-official-movie-1?hd=1&tag=topslot;thumb;2)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 01 Nov 2008, 18:54
Oh. My. Fucking. God.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 01 Nov 2008, 19:34
Looks fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 01 Nov 2008, 19:53
Fuck, fucking fuck fucker fucked.*



*  Translation: "Yeah, it does look awesome."  Only with swearing, because "fuck" is apparently necessary.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 01 Nov 2008, 19:59
Believe it or not, that's how the game actually plays.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 01 Nov 2008, 20:15
If that's anywhere close to how the game plays I have a feeling I'm going to be failing some classes this year guys.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 01 Nov 2008, 20:29
Oh jeezus.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: CarrionMan on 01 Nov 2008, 22:02
I think out of all the zombies, the most disturbing is the Witch zombie. I mean, you go, trying to help people, you find this person crying, you go to help them, they tear your head off. Scary.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 01 Nov 2008, 23:56
The object of the game(if you are a survivor) is to run away.I don't think it would make much sense otherwise.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 02 Nov 2008, 19:31
That has one of my new favorite quotes. The shoot or run bit.

Well, not necessarily away. Run to a point where you can get away, yes, but there is going to be a lot of zombies between you and that point, and if you run away from all of those, you will never get there (though I would love to see a pacifist run through scenarios once this is out for a while, I don't think that will happen too soon). What really struck me watching various gameplay videos is how despite having 480 rounds to spare in their uzis, they tended to run really low by the time they got to another safe point. I guess that is what happens when nobody you fight carries ammo. At first I thought that ammo conservation wouldn't be a problem at all, when I saw the scenario start, but I was disabused of that notion. I don't think they are going to make you be extremely careful about ammo, but you won't want to be wasting it (and definitely not shooting at shadows, since they hear the gunshots).

I'm downloading the demo when it comes out, anyone else getting this for PC?

edit: Oh right, forgot the pistols have unlimited ammo. Guess they don't want players helpless. Good idea.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 02 Nov 2008, 19:35
I think the game somehow tallies how much ammo you have.  Basically, if you have a lot of ammo, the game hasn't been hard enough and the game throws more mobs at you.  If you don't have much ammo, the game's been too hard and it doesn't hit you with much.  In short, the game dynamically reconfigures the difficulty level based on your performance and maintains a level of difficulty appropriate to the group.

At least, that's the theory.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 02 Nov 2008, 20:00
I'm sure there will be a "use as little ammo as possible" achievement.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 02 Nov 2008, 22:27
Just as much as I hope there will be a "use as much ammo as possible" achievement.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 02 Nov 2008, 23:03
The achievements for L4D are, to the best of my knowledge, even more insane than those for TF2. Like surviving an entire level without taking damage, ever.

Also, the Director definitely takes into account ammo totals when it's deciding what to throw at you, along with a handful of other variables.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 03 Nov 2008, 08:29
FUCK YOU FOR HAVING INSIDER KNOWLEDGE AND PLAYTESTING THIS GAME WAY BEFORE WE GOT TO.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 03 Nov 2008, 12:47
Yeah! What he said!



also, that new video is the fucking cat's pajamas. i didn't think it was possible, but i'm even more excited for this game now.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 03 Nov 2008, 16:35
This game is going to be fantastic.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 03 Nov 2008, 19:37
If it's any consolation, the grilling I got after playing was so intense that my ass still hurts.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 04 Nov 2008, 10:27
One week until the demo. I know what I am going to be doing with my time that I should be using to study.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 06 Nov 2008, 19:59
If you preordered you can play the demo now. Anyone have it?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 06 Nov 2008, 22:01
Yup. Two short levels of the No Mercy campaign. Absolutely a blast on Expert mode.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 06 Nov 2008, 22:10
 Due to a bug in Gamestop's system, you can receive a demo code without having pre-ordered the game. While I plan on buying the game and have already reserved a copy, I know some people would like to play a portion before they put down money - and thus I have decided to post this information. As far as I know this is perfectly legal.

To obtain a free Left 4 Dead demo invite code follow these steps:

1. Visit GameStop’s early demo access page from this link (http://www.gamestop.com/gs/landing/l4dearly/default.aspx).

2. Fill out the Platform, E-Mail Address, First Name and Last Name fields, but leave the Transaction ID field empty. Make sure to enter a valid E-mail since the demo access code will be sent to the address you provide.

3. Press submit.

4. Wait until Gamestop sends the code, it may take up to two days to arrive.


Once you get the code:

1. Log on here (http://store.steampowered.com/app/530/).

2. Double Click "Download Now"

3. Enter the Demo code when prompted.

4. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 06 Nov 2008, 22:47
Due to a bug in Gamestop's system, you can receive a demo code without having pre-ordered the game. While I plan on buying the game and have already reserved a copy, I know some people would like to play a portion before they put down money - and thus I have decided to post this information.

To be fair, everybody does get the demo eventually. Pre-orders just get it earlier.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 07 Nov 2008, 04:21
Also, hey, this game is amazing.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 07 Nov 2008, 14:22
The communist dude I know (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081107-server-socialism-valves-fumbles-mar-left-4-dead-demo.html) is fixing the game, I guess.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 08 Nov 2008, 20:14
Oh my god, this game is fantastic. It is the bee's knees. Expert is so hard, but so rewarding if you finally get to the finish (which is usually provided you don't encounter a tank - I don't think I've ever killed a tank on expert).
Title: I just played the demo
Post by: ArcAirbender on 11 Nov 2008, 21:59
I just log off XBL! from playing 1:30 hrs of Left 4 Dead demo, and this are my impressions:

I was amazed of how little delay was, and how fluid EVERYTHING was even when all 4 people were playing.
The game runs smoot and without problems. The framerate never drops even when the cluster-fuck reaches critical mass.

I think the textures look a little last gen for me, the game overall doesn't feel "pretty as Bioshock, Mass Effect or Gears of War 2" ; now, that's no dealbreaker to me, but is worth mentioning. If you want eye candy, you'll probably feel a little dissapointed.

The voice communication was flawless, and it really helps that you keep the com open because a part of the game is tactical. (Example: if you walk carelessly outside, some car alarms can go off and bring out the entire horde)

I felt the game, in normal mode, was a little too easy. Now now, I don't presume to have 1337 skillz or any of the sort, but there's plenty of ammo, and the weapons are not unique (there isn't JUST ONE SHOTGUN... everybody can spaz out to the rythm if they want to) and your health goes down REALLY SLOOOOOW... so the fear factor may not be there on ocassion. You can only carry one medkit, and you can chose to use it on yourself, or a teammate. Neato! cooperative action.

I've heard how the game "adapts" to the way you play, and I can vouch for that. The first time I ever loaded the demo, it happen to be the first time for all of us 4... so we were scared shitless, using the power of numbers to advance through everything... the game seemed to notice it, because while we were on the subway, a little girl's cryign started echoing throughout the whole level, and we started investigating, going REAAAAALY slow EVERYWHERE... doublechecking doors, roofs, dark alleys... EVERY LITTLE NOOK...

When we finally arrived, we saw the little girl... now my fellas and I have all seen the trailer, so we all knew that at some point the fucking witch was going to turn hostile... but even though we knew, the little thing jumped on us SO FAST that it incapacitated one of us immediately; the game warned us with a yellow light that a teammate was down, and after a couple hundred rounds (everybody proving how manly each was by playing "put the most ammo on that corpse") we bring back the fallen teammate.

Even though nobody died, and the health system was at times over compensating, we had a blast.

Now, for the second run, the game behave totally different. One of the boys thought he was a "man's man" and started running forward like a drunken fool, leaving the rest of us to clean the entire mess. After a few car alarms and, like, 300 dead corpses, we entered the subway system, all manly, arnold-schwarzenegger-in-predator-one-mode... and  the little kid/witch NEVER SHOWS... INSTEAD an ARMY of fatmen and roid-raged... THINGS start attacking us.
The fat men were practically bombs, so other than creating a blinding green steam, no harm done... the uber muscular zombie, on the other hand, was a BULLET EATING GODZILLA... I shit you not, we easily dropped over 400 bullets to that thing and it barely died.

When you get "pinned down" by a zombie like the roid rage guy, you can still shoot the basic weapon (pistol) but recieve tons of damage by the creature. You have this "regular" life... green for good, yellow for careful, and red for "you are about to die" ... except you dont. After depletion, a teamplayer can come and revive you without any kit, and then you have something like a "dotted life" meaning if you ever go down again, its game over pal. The teammate who revives you even says so, just to be clear.

If someone happens to have a health pack, you can use it to go back to "first life bar" status.

Being that the game has unlimited ammo for the basic weapon (pistol) and a somewhat plentyful health/revival combination, the stress of "surival" in survival horror is not always present.
The game relies too much in cues of scripted nature to bring you the hibby jibbies.

I won't say the game needs balancing, because I'm about to try it out on hard, and see how it goes from there, but a limited amount of ammo, or a mode with a limited amount of ammo would be welcome.

Not that the game is not purchase-worthy, i was SOLD the moment I finished the first level.

What are your impressions guys!?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 11 Nov 2008, 22:05
Keep in mind that the levels get harder as you go through. For example, I will generally get through the first level in Expert with only a little bit of health lost. And then it takes me roughly four or five times to get through the second level (unless I get a good team). So logic would follow, that even on lower levels (which are, I agree, remarkably easy) by the time you hit the 5th level, the game will be a lot more difficult.

Also, I can't see the point in reducing ammo. This isn't a survival horror game, it is a balls to the wall kill everything shooter. Reducing ammo would be kinda like reducing ammo in Serious Sam.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: ArcAirbender on 11 Nov 2008, 22:14
Yes, you are probably right about the ammo... because now that I make memory, I can remember sometimes being more annoyed than scared playing Resident Evil.

I was more likely playing expecting something of the nature of those games, but this is something completely different to me.
More like Adrenaline-Horror of the sorts.

It is a really brilliant idea to bring cooperative to this scene.

GoW2 and now L4D... My holiday is complete cooperative-wise.

*ugh, fixed some mistakes
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 11 Nov 2008, 22:57
The levels aren't linearly incremental in difficulty: the subways are just inherently more difficult than the first level thanks to the design of the level. In no way is it "second stage, twice as many zombies", and the third stage of No Mercy is actually a bit easier than the one before it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 11 Nov 2008, 23:02
Really? Phew. I thought the later expert levels were going to have me flailing wildly in rage.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 12 Nov 2008, 12:00
Keep aware that this is the demo, I think they were showing off how many opponents you could have on the screen at once.

Also, It bitched about my drivers not being updated and I had few issues
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 12 Nov 2008, 12:11
Keep aware that this is the demo, I think they were showing off how many opponents you could have on the screen at once.

It's that hectic all the time.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 12 Nov 2008, 14:28
DUDES online splitscreen!


best game ever? maybe.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Nov 2008, 19:33
I have only played the subway level on single-player (got close once in mutliplayer, but a car alarm went off and I didn't leave the downed person behind like I probably should have if we wanted to continue), but I don't find it hugely hard, the only times I have lost, there was a witch in the last room and she got set off by the gunshots, which are somewhat difficult to avoid, she even came after me when I was across the room from her shooting random zombies. I have to say I'm looking forward to bigger open sets, since really, you get out of the house/apartments, through a couple alleys, into another building (I don't know why you would go around barring a speed run), into a subway station, and that is the rest of the demo. I would love it if some of the outside of the city parts have maybe 80 zombies coming at once from a ways away, sure, you have maybe 10 seconds to shoot them, but there is a lot of them, and reloading takes all too long. Or you could ruin that whole experience and toss a pipe bomb... damn, probably not happening.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: CarrionMan on 12 Nov 2008, 19:45
It freezes occasionally. Oh well.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 12 Nov 2008, 20:48
The rural areas of the game have a much different pace than the levels of the demo. In my mind, the demo has the same feeling as the metro area of 28 Weeks Later, whereas the rural sections feel more like the opening zombie run in 28 Days.

Oh, if you haven't played 4-player in the subway, it doesn't count. Bots are easy.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Nov 2008, 21:34
I think the main problem is people not sticking together, one time at the end of the alley, after the swarm was done, a smoker got an ally, then after we got rid of it, 30 or 45 seconds later, I notice him in the exact same place, constricted by another smoker. Maybe he was looking around outside. I think that if you stuck together as well as the bots stick with you, it would be easier than bots, barring the AI director deciding you are good enough to take two tanks with the starting weapons.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 12 Nov 2008, 22:14
Got to play it a bit tonight, and I can honestly say that if you don't have voice, don't even fucking bother with multiplayer. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to take that hint, and then there are the idiots who run up ahead, and the asshole who shoot teammates on purpose... Yeah pick-up games can get ugly.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Nov 2008, 22:38
I think I took out one teammate twice, I'm currently on a laptop as my PC is out of commission, so I run somewhat laggy, and twice I fired right when he ran in front of me, when I had the shotgun. Thankfully, that was a friends game, and I had already mentioned that I had a bit of lag.

I need to figure out how to comfortably wear two sets of headphones at once: one with a mic and one with the sound, one has no mic, one has a dead speaker.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 12 Nov 2008, 22:39
Leave the mic headset around your neck, actually wear the speakers that work.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 12 Nov 2008, 22:41
Why not remove the mic from its headset and graft it to the working one.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Nov 2008, 22:44
I really don't want to screw with the wiring on the one working mic I have. And I think melodic wins, the mic is at the perfect angle.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 12 Nov 2008, 22:49
Yeah, friendly fire can be a serious problem if you've got an idiot brother who can't shoot for shit. He single-handedly ensured my death at least twice when I ran through the demo with him.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Nov 2008, 22:57
So is it unchangeable? I heard that it was a lot, and then heard that you could turn it off on a gamespot feature of it, and I think I have seen people get shot without the warning going off, and I didn't hear any voice clips going off. Could have been a scant miss, though, as they just looked like the shotgun blast should have hit them.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 12 Nov 2008, 23:01
I'm pretty sure friendly fire stays on permanently. It's not that bad though, I haven't been shot on purpose yet and it hasn't been that common - and unless you're in the middle of a swarm, one death or knockdown doesn't really affect anything. You're going to die a decent amount anyway.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: dennis on 12 Nov 2008, 23:02
Line of fire is a major issue in 4 person co-op.

Also, people who don't go through a door so much as stop in it and end up having to face down a horde by themselves and getting some blue-on-blue from the back.

I did notice that the level designers put in a lot of objects you can jump on so you can have tiers of fire. Two people on the ground and two people on a dumpster firing over their heads is pretty effective at solving a lot of LOF problems.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 13 Nov 2008, 00:38
If one person crouches and another fires, that works too. Just have to co-ordinate it, and make sure the front man doesn't get up until he backs behind the person behind him, if necessary. Does anyone have one person watching the back regularly? We got a good 20-person swarm coming from the top floor in the apartments, I had thought I heard something coming, though, so I managed to shotgun most of it down in the hallway and bash the rest of them back until my allies noticed. Then I got pounced on by a hunter. Agile little bastards.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 13 Nov 2008, 01:26
Line of fire is fine, just have the person at the front crouch. And even then it's only really an issue on the subway, which a) you don't need more than one person to hold off a horde on anyway, and b) you can choose not to go on the subway if you want.

Usually there is only somebody watching the back when I play if a horde is coming. Just have somebody turn around when you get the audio cue.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 13 Nov 2008, 02:36
That is the screaming, right? I haven't played enough to recognize al the cues yet. I can recognize some of them, but not all of them.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 13 Nov 2008, 03:07
DUDES online splitscreen!


best game ever? maybe.

So you're already hampered by loose, inaccurate controls, and now you're halving your viewable area?  I feel sorry for your teammates :(
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: dennis on 13 Nov 2008, 03:24
DUDES online splitscreen!


best game ever? maybe.

So you're already hampered by loose, inaccurate controls, and now you're halving your viewable area?  I feel sorry for your teammates :(
It's really not that bad. And I like how they give you the option of splitting vertically or horizontally.

I played countless hours of 4 person Goldeneye on the N64 on a 27" SDTV, and it was great.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: dennis on 13 Nov 2008, 03:26
Line of fire is fine, just have the person at the front crouch. And even then it's only really an issue on the subway, which a) you don't need more than one person to hold off a horde on anyway, and b) you can choose not to go on the subway if you want.

Usually there is only somebody watching the back when I play if a horde is coming. Just have somebody turn around when you get the audio cue.
If you play with 3 other people who don't have tons of FPS experience, it can get hectic, especially when they panic as a zombie horde attacks you in the dark.

Also, what difficulty did you play on?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 13 Nov 2008, 14:37
DUDES online splitscreen!


best game ever? maybe.

So you're already hampered by loose, inaccurate controls, and now you're halving your viewable area?  I feel sorry for your teammates :(

Don't be a twat.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 13 Nov 2008, 16:01
Also, what difficulty did you play on?

Expert.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 13 Nov 2008, 18:14
We always get fucked over by the tank(on Expert), no matter the team. No Generator room for me, not a chance.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 13 Nov 2008, 18:28
Does it have more health on expert? Or do you just have less?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 13 Nov 2008, 18:37
Guys I have had this demo on my Xbox for 54 hours and still have not been able to play it due to homework.  I want to cry.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 13 Nov 2008, 18:55
Does it have more health on expert? Or do you just have less?

It kills you in one hit and you'll usually be red lining by the time you see it so you can't run away. Pretty sure it has more health, too. I've only killed two on expert.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 13 Nov 2008, 19:04
Damn. It runs from pipe bombs, right? That could be used to your advantage, toss one in front of it, and it runs back, giving you more time to shoot it from range. That is if you can get a pipe bomb out and toss it quick enough.

First tank I faced, I did with a pump shotgun, before we got to a table with upgraded weapons. Thankfully, pathing messed up and it got stuck partway in a subway door, letting me shoot it through a gap between the subway car and a wall.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 13 Nov 2008, 19:07
I don't think it does run from pipe bombs, they just don't really do any damage. The best way, I've found to kill them is either to light it on fire and then run like hell, or jump on the subway and when it climbs up after you, jump off. Repeat.

However, both of these ways require high enough health to be able to out run it which is the main problem.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 13 Nov 2008, 19:08
Do you slow down when you are injured? I haven't played enough to notice those details (damn desktop).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 13 Nov 2008, 19:09
Yeah, you do. When you're red lining you can pretty much only walk.

Also, looked it up and I was wrong. They don't have more health on expert.

Quote from: FAQ
Survivors may choose from 4 varying levels of difficulty, Easy, Normal, Advanced, and Expert, which affect two things - the attack power of the enemy infected and bosses, and the amount of friendly fire the Survivors take. This means that the infected always die from the same amount of bullets, but the Survivors must be much more careful when being hit. For an idea of the difference in difficulty, on Normal mode, an infected punch hits the Survivor for 3 damage, whereas in Expert, a single punch does 20 damage (1/5 of the Survivors total health!).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 13 Nov 2008, 19:15
Ouch, no wonder we were dying so fast. I think that expert is a bit much to aspire to right now unless you are looking forward to dying a lot, or work together very well.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 13 Nov 2008, 21:10
I don't mind dying, a lot of the time it's pretty funny. I beat expert 3 times today, a new record. Killed 4 tanks - running up and down the escalators or using the ticket barriers works quite well.

I think expert is different to the other levels in that you may die an awful lot, but it ends up being so much more rewarding in the end.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 13 Nov 2008, 21:15
Rule number 1 with Tanks is to run away. Run as far away as you possibly can. Go back through the entire level if you have to but don't stop running and don't stop shooting.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: CarrionMan on 13 Nov 2008, 21:16
Don't use molotovs. I got killed twice by a flaming tank because my brother lit it on fire.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 13 Nov 2008, 21:20
Does it have more health on expert? Or do you just have less?

From what I can tell, player and NPC HP is identical for all skill levels, but NPC damage output increases rapidly.  A regular zombie will do about 3 per hit on Normal, and 20(!) per hit on Expert.

Where possible, my teams have had the most success with the autoshotty.  It takes about 30 rounds or so, and on Expert you're almost guaranteed to lose a couple people, but it's worked well for us... by time we pick up tier wo weapons, we're usually running two autoshotties, an M-16, and a hunting rifle; it's worked very well for us so far.

EDIT:  Witches seem to give a lot of people problems as well, for whatever reason (my group hates Boomers. personally... just finish mashing a horde, round the corner and immediately get puked on and have to fight off ANOTHER damned horde...); assuming we have the time, we like to set up so that our riflemen have a clear line of sight to her from a distance away with our shotgunners protecting them (a bit like how lines of pikemen would protect archers from cavalry charges.)  In particular, it works very well if you can contrive to have her round as corner in an attempt to reach the riflemen; place your shotgunners at the corner and just flatten her when she zips around it.  The Witch can't take the hits like a Tank can, so the best solution is usually to stay somewhat close together and mash her as quickly as possible.  I've heard good things about using a Molotov on her, but my team's had some bad experiences with those damned things :P
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 14 Nov 2008, 00:47
Don't use molotovs. I got killed twice by a flaming tank because my brother lit it on fire.

If a tank reaches you, your dead, on fire or not. Fire will kill it if you run the whole map - you don't even need to shoot it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 14 Nov 2008, 01:10
Just depends on if you prefer cremation to burial :P
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 14 Nov 2008, 01:47
Maybe I will find it more rewarding when I can run smoothly, I find some elements of the game rewarding, mostly when I manage to get a swarm in a choke-point and take out most of it before it gets to me, but the dying is just annoying because I move so slowly that a lot of hitting is luck when they start running.

Pizza, the boomers have a very noticeable audio cue, we don't usually have too much trouble with them. They will wait at corners a lot, but if you can't see their bellies around the corner, you can sometimes bait them out by moving forward and then back really quick, shoot it as soon as it comes out.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 14 Nov 2008, 19:52
Knock the boomer back with the butt your gun. All that weight knocks him back quite a bit.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 14 Nov 2008, 19:53
Yeah, you can hit him back twice - but the third melee with make him explode.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 14 Nov 2008, 19:56
He doesn't seem to have a very large explosion radius, though. In the subway car, it seems like maybe five seats, if that. They like hiding at that corner of the two train cars. At least the horde gets funneled through that way, you can just crouch and blindly fire at them while your allies shoot over you.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 14 Nov 2008, 20:05
He has a large radius for the projectile vomit. Twice I got barfed on when I was in the little air duct part. That sounds confusing, to clarify the boomer is in the subway entrance for the duct, I'm near the other entrance.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 14 Nov 2008, 20:40
Wait... the little tiny duct, right? After the first room after the safe house? Sometimes there are pipe bombs or molotovs by the entrance to it? So you are at the bottom of the first flight of stairs, and he gets you with it from the ducts?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 14 Nov 2008, 20:53
Other way round
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 14 Nov 2008, 20:56
Yeah, that happened to me a few times when I first started playing. Which I'm assuming is why nobody goes down the vents anymore, just goes and picks up the bombs that are there (I know that's why I don't).

Also, won expert twice in a row with no restarts. Yay! (To be fair, this did involve abusing the weapon swap / melee bug).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 14 Nov 2008, 21:05
What bug is that? lets you melee really fast? Auto-reloads?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 14 Nov 2008, 21:27
If you swap your weapon you can melee again with no wait since your last one. So you can melee, swap weapon, melee, etc.

It's pretty handy if you're on the train and they are all charging at you or if you are on top of the train and they are climbing up. Not so handy anywhere else as they can get behind you.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 16 Nov 2008, 11:02
Update out today. For Valve's track record, all of the updates have sucked. This one gets rid of connect xxx.xxx.xxx console. And Expert is more Expert.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 16 Nov 2008, 14:58
Is anyone else having server issues? I have problems connecting
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 16 Nov 2008, 20:03
I got really high and played this for 4 hours straight.  I am motherfuckin' floored.  I have never gotten an adrenaline rush that strong from a game, ever.  Wow.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: MadassAlex on 17 Nov 2008, 00:02
Is anyone else having server issues? I have problems connecting

When I try to play this online, it knocks out my entire home network.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: supersheep on 17 Nov 2008, 00:56
OH MY GOD SO GOOD!

Seriously. At times this is reduced to a slideshow, due to the crappiness of my graphics card properly. (Speaking of which, any tips on how to drop the graphics quality lower than Low?) Still I am playing on!
Just got pinned, and then saved at pretty much the final possible point and I got to shoot a Hunter off another team mate as I lay dying. AWESOME.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 17 Nov 2008, 01:49
We are going to get it on once this game comes out, which is... 23 hours from now.

We ought to set something up.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 17 Nov 2008, 08:46
Just reminiscing from yesterday....HOLY CRAP GET IT OFF ME
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 17 Nov 2008, 10:05
tomorrow's the big day!

anyone else getting it for 360 or am i alone?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 17 Nov 2008, 10:07
Depending on which way Valve swings, Steam Groups might be the best in for private servers. If anyone is so incline, joining the Pfriends (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/pfriends) group will net you the three servers we'll be running on launch.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: ackblom12 on 17 Nov 2008, 10:21
Assuming Amazon ships it on time, I'll be getting it Wed or Thursday. They've been good lately! Fable II and Fallout 3 both got here on time!

It's totally not getting here on time is it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 17 Nov 2008, 10:29
tomorrow's the big day!

anyone else getting it for 360 or am i alone?

Me, but my CAT5 cable doesn't work with my 360 unless I hold it in.  If I had a spare cable, I might be able to wrangle something else to work...
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 17 Nov 2008, 12:59
What I would like is if people who have the demo could play with the people who have the game.I'm getting my hopes up again, I gotta stop that Don't get me wrong, I'm getting the game, just not immediately.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 17 Nov 2008, 14:16
I downloaded the demo last night.  If all goes well I may check it out tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 17 Nov 2008, 20:42
tomorrow's the big day!

anyone else getting it for 360 or am i alone?

Me, but my CAT5 cable doesn't work with my 360 unless I hold it in.  If I had a spare cable, I might be able to wrangle something else to work...
Got duct tape?

Est, I am pretty sure the online part shuts down very very soon, play quickly.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 17 Nov 2008, 21:33
OH MY GOD SO GOOD!

Seriously. At times this is reduced to a slideshow, due to the crappiness of my graphics card properly. (Speaking of which, any tips on how to drop the graphics quality lower than Low?) Still I am playing on!
Just got pinned, and then saved at pretty much the final possible point and I got to shoot a Hunter off another team mate as I lay dying. AWESOME.

Most Source games will allow you to force DX8 instead of normal DX9... it'll look ugly, but it might be more playable for you.  It usually involves an extra command in the shortcut to the executable; if L4D will let you do this, the command should be in a readme or somewhere on the official Steam boards.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: OneoftheLost on 17 Nov 2008, 22:19
Awww..


So after a two hour download, I found myself the proud owner of the L4D demo (via steam) Being the patient and strategic fellow that I am, I immediatly joined an online server. (The quickmatch thing ROCKS.) Standing on a roof top, I found myself with three other survivors and what looked to be a stash of ammo and weapons. Taking a step.... I noticed it was rather choppy. After about ten minutes of play I had to quit. Settings yielded my solution. (Hello, "Low") Re-joining a different server, I then played for roughly forty minutes.

Intense is the only word I can use to describe this game. To say the co-op is top notch is an understatement. I havn't had this much fun since TF2. Sure my comp can't handle the higher end graphics settings, but who cares? The game HAS to run smoothly.

Sadly, steam chose to kick me off of the demo when the main game was released. So now I'm forced to wait until my next paycheck to pick up this gem...... ah well. Hope everybody else is having fun! Oh, and let me know how the full version is? I'm currently trying to decide if I should spend the remainder of my paycheck on Flight Simulator X (Yeah... I do love me some flyin') or L4D. Mainly, a map count would be nice, sure the enemies are randomized, but the maps all seem rather short. I'd hate to spend $49 on a few maps when I could spend $30 on a much bigger, and more established game.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 17 Nov 2008, 22:26
I am not certain, but I think that there are four campaigns, with five maps each. The comparison is made of how in online games, you usually only play a few maps anyway, but I don't think that is accurate. In CS, for instance, each map has a lot of different ways to go about it, where as there are only a few little ways you can change how you go about L4D (at least, in the demo, hopefully I am proved wrong for the full game).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 17 Nov 2008, 22:32
Dude, I played through the same two levels 10 times in a row and didn't want to stop for sleep.  Each iteration was terrifyingly different.  If you don't think 20 levels is enough, maybe you should hold off until they release a new campaign or two.  But I could play the demo for weeks on end as is.

Also, Nodaisho; it's a bit more complicated than that.  I use the same CAT5 for my 360 and PC, switching between the two.  It works fine on my PC.  If I duct-taped it to my 360 (which I take with me often), it would only be reapplied twice a week, costing me money for lots of duct tape.  I tried putting it in a router so I wouldn't have to switch back and forth, but alas, that didn't work....although if I tape it to the router....hmm.  Maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: OneoftheLost on 17 Nov 2008, 22:38
I wish I COULD play the demo for that long. Stupid steam. I'll probably tell myself that I'm NOT going to buy it, and then... buy it anyway. I mean.... sure, all the little features are kewl. (Dualies, Ai director, the minibosses, the way each map is random. etc. etc.) but at the end of the day I was sold at "Zombies."

Ah well. Such is life.

On a related note... I was playing the demo (before steam locked it.) and going through the subway, it was on Expert or somesuch. Can the game have more then one Witch per level? I thought you could only have one? (I ask because my teamates kept swearing there was another up ahead.... there wasn't.)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 17 Nov 2008, 22:38
If that doesn't work, I bet that you could use velcro, stick a patch around the socket of each, cut a hole for the socket, attach the other side of the velcro to the cable, with a hole for the cable, and it would be held in by velcro. Or you could just get a new cat5 cable. How much are they, anyway?

I found it a bit boring, but I think that is in part due to my not playing online (low framerate, don't want to hold others back), and in part due to always having the time to plan stuff out, since the game got slowed down, not just the framerate.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: CamusCanDo on 18 Nov 2008, 00:26
I want to play this game so bad. So bad.

Fuck the 21st
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 18 Nov 2008, 00:35
After having finally sat down for 4 hours with the full game, I can only say that Valve has succeeded in making a game better than Half-Life 2. It's even better than the demo, and not just because of more stuff.

Versus is executed flawlessly. It's extremely entertaining playing the zombies, and it makes playing the humans more interesting.

The game is much harder. Insanely harder, actually. Expert is actually turning out to be Halo Legendary-esque.

100% top-notch.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 18 Nov 2008, 00:42
I am not certain, but I think that there are four campaigns, with five maps each. The comparison is made of how in online games, you usually only play a few maps anyway, but I don't think that is accurate. In CS, for instance, each map has a lot of different ways to go about it, where as there are only a few little ways you can change how you go about L4D (at least, in the demo, hopefully I am proved wrong for the full game).

20 maps at least comprising four campaigns of five maps each.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the modding and mapping communities will do with L4D.  How long till we see (quality) Resident Evil-themed maps?  Raccoon City and the RCPD precinct should be relatively easy to do.  How about maps that operate on a day/night cycle?  New or modified weapons seems like a no-brainer (personally I'd like something like a LAW, that takes your primary weapons slot and can't be reloaded but kills pretty much anything but a Tank in one shot.)

Vanilla HL2+ep1+ep2 has yielded Goldeneye: Source, MINERVA: Metastasis, Garry's Mod, and a whole host of other high quality mods.  Should be interesting to see what people can do with L4D, particularly where the Director AI is concerned... or how about a human Director?  L4D meets AD&D's Dungeon Master?

I remember doing co-op Halo Legendary with a friend... if Expert really will be on that level now, this game is gonna own my soul.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 18 Nov 2008, 01:22
The main thing with a human director would be making sure that it wasn't meant to be competition, or if it was, the director would be limited, otherwise you get a tank zerg rush and that is no fun for any of the humans.

I'm not buying it for a while, money is not on my size right now.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 18 Nov 2008, 04:36
Just have the human Director operate under the same limits as an AI Director.  Maybe allow him to communicate with human Infected as well, like a commander communicating with his squad leaders in Battlefield.

I won't be able to buy it for a couple months at least... gonna be getting a new car at the end of the month (and I can't expect to get much from the sale of the junker I'm driving around now), then Christmas in December.  Having to wait sucks! :(
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: supersheep on 18 Nov 2008, 06:36
Hmm, so the demo is now locked. Not so good. No way am I dropping $50 on a game if I can't tell if it'll run or not on my pc. I guess I'll have to wait a wee while before I can try it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 18 Nov 2008, 08:52
@Nodaisho: Again, another issue; the cable I use is 25 feet long and is going through the walls of the house.  I'd have to buy a new one (~25 bucks), pull out the other one, and re-push it back up there.  Or I could crimp it and put a new head on there...right now I'm not sure what I'll do.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: ackblom12 on 18 Nov 2008, 11:38
Crimping it is pretty simple. I'd highly suggest it since you'd have to fish otherwise.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 18 Nov 2008, 12:16
No way will we see a human Director anytime soon: the AI is hard-coded into the system.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 18 Nov 2008, 15:42
Guys, I played the very first little room bit this morning after leaving it to download overnight and I have some concerns and a few questions!

Ok, so I started on the roof, opened the door and saw a few people/zombies shuffling about.  I didn't know if they were zombies or people so I shot the fuck out of them straight up.  I figure this is the right thing to do.  If there are other survivors I give less of a shit about them than I do about my teammates and I surviving.

I went down the stairs and shot the shit out of a handful of zombies in the kitchen there.  Ok, so far so good.  I cleared what looked to be some kind of loungeroom while staying in the kitchen because there looked to be a t-intersection out there and fuck walking into that when there's already things around.

Ok so, at this point I was being hyper-vigilant.  I was creeping around a corner and a Hunter just appeared on top of me.  Like, I did not see this thing.  Everything around me was clear and it's like this thing bamfed on top of me.  A bot killed it for me and I got up then everything was quiet.  I crept forward a little bit and all of a sudden a wall of zombies warped into view.  Like, they literally reminded me of a spaceship coming out of warp.  After we cleared them this happened again a couple of times in different places.

So my question is, are the zombies really this fucking fast all the goddamned time or is there something seriously wrong with my game?  This is ridiculously stupid.  The first wave of zombies warped into my vision out of an empty room with no entrances other than the one I was outside of.  Later on my team-mates kept killing Smokers behind us and that was a cleared section with no entrances/exits.  Do zombies respawn or get back up or appear out of nowhere or something?  I hope there is something I am missing here, because instead of making the game seem "tense" or whatever this "zombies just appearing as if by magic" shit will get old very fast.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 18 Nov 2008, 15:44
Never happened to me.

I'm sure Valve QA would love to hear about that, you should let them know.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 18 Nov 2008, 15:48
well, i think zombies can burst through certain sections of wall/climb out of vents/hide in closets/etc. but it sounds like you just had some serious glitching.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 18 Nov 2008, 15:49
Hippity tips!

Quote
=================

Since we're discussing about Left 4 Dead gameplay, here's some teamwork tips that will tremendously improve your team's survival rate in expert:

-With every room you leave, make sure you close the door behind you. The zombies aren't capable of opening the door which they can only destroy it. Use the advantage to shoot through the door.

-Make sure there is one player always to be receptive to the group's rear flank. Never know when will one special enemy boss lurk behind or a horde even.

-Common sense: When a player is shooting at zombies in front of you, don't try to outrun him to compete for zombie kills. You will only get yourself shot by him accidentally. Also, NEVER EVER STRAFE SHOOT ZOMBIES when you are in close proximity with your team mates. Sure you will encircle them, but that includes your comrades which will result in mass friendly fire. Hold your position and retreat backwards if its too much to take while at the same time meleeing them. Make sure you know where your team members were position on the fly to avoid getting friendly fired by them. Its just like basketball.

-Walk button. Use it to engage enemies if you want to push forward or circle an enemy. This makes your movement much more coordinated and your team members will recognise your movement in their sight which they will unlikely shoot you. You have no idea how fast players move when in green health, which is super fast.

-When you can, always reload your weapons before they are empty. They reload much faster. Apparently there is a bug for all weapons except the shotguns in which that the submachine guns and rifles do not perform the extra animation of pulling the blowback when the magazine is empty.

-Pipe bombs are your best friends. These are decoys that kills and could save your group's life during horde moments. Molotovs are much trickier to use but they can effectively set an area of denial against the horde. But it can also unintentionally stir chaos to your group if you do not throw it properly.

-All weapons can penetrate with each respective weapons having their own penetration power. Sniper rifles could pierce almost everything while uzi could only pierce through wood.

-Learn to share your health packs and pills. One crippling team member handicaps the group's strength since he is slowed. One dead team member would mean one flank less covered.

-Never stay at one place for long. Sure you may feel safe being near an unlimited ammo or weapon cache, but your life is still limited and may be at the point of being in temporary health. More time wasted, more health is diminished. Keep moving forward unless your dead team members spawns close by at the timely moment.

-Saving friends from hunters or smokers. Unless you have precision weapons like uzi, do not attempt to use shotgun since you will also hit your team member you are trying to save. Instead, for hunters, melee the hunter to free it from your team mate and blast it freely at point blank. As for smoker, you could melee your friend to free him from the tentacle if the smoker is beyond your sight, or shoot the tongue itself to free your friend.

-Last, most important and common sense of all: DON'T PANIC when hell goes loose. If a team member is incapcitated, do not panic. He has enough health to keep himself safe unless a hunter got to him. First make sure that all zombies that are targetting you are downed. Next, shoot at the zombies, not at your downed friend. Do this by aiming at the zombie's chest to head level area. Common sense right? I see stupid players doing that every single time which kills the poor guy instead of saving him since all weapons penetrate.


-Helping your friend when he is surrounded by zombies. Shoot your targets perpendicular to the friendly, not at the centre of the friendly itself that results in friendly fire. Its just like peeling an apple. This is common sense, something alot of new players do not have which is aggravating.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 18 Nov 2008, 15:52
Well, I haven't had them spawn someplace that there were no entrances after I had checked, but sometimes there will be a group of them hiding in a closet. Smokers get about on the roofs, like hunters do, so I figure they just came through the same path you did. I never saw zombies spawn in in a manner that made it obvious that they weren't there to begin with, except for when I saw someone play as a boomer, he vomited on a survivor, and a few seconds later, a swarm spawned in within his sight, but out of sight of survivors.
Ninja'ed twice.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 18 Nov 2008, 15:57
That sounds like a personal problem to me. Are you playing it on PC? I played the Xbox demo and I dealt with nothing of the sort. I was also playing on a pretty damn large screen, so I was clearly just being dogpiled by a superior force rather than shit just coming out of nowhere.

Another big part of it is the flashlight aspect. The limited field of view in extremely dark areas makes it seem like shit is coming up on you much faster.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 18 Nov 2008, 16:10
i fucking love the way shit comes at you all strobe-y when you're firing your gun with your light off
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 18 Nov 2008, 16:13
Ah, yeah. The buckshot flashlight. I wasted so much ammo in quake firing the shotgun at dark corners that I had thought I heard something from.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 18 Nov 2008, 16:18
I agree with all of those tips above.

Never know when will one special enemy boss lurk behind or a horde even.

However, paying attention to audio cues will let you know when there is going to be a boss or a horde. So you don't always have to waste one person putting him in the back.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 18 Nov 2008, 16:38
The hunter bit I disagree with partially. In close range, you aren't going to hit your ally, if you are almost close enough to bash it off, go ahead. That way, when you do bash it off, it is already pretty heavily damaged and another shot ought to make it dead.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 18 Nov 2008, 16:46
sometimes there will be a group of them hiding in a closet

That sounds utterly fucking dumb.  Why would a bunch of zombies cram themselves into a closet then just wait?

Anyway, thanks for all the ideas guys.  I'll test it out a bit more when I get home and try to see if it's a tech problem or if I am just not noticing things until the last minute or what.  I have a fairly beefy machine so I doubt it is a graphics lag issue, but I will knock the graphics down a bit just to be sure.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 18 Nov 2008, 17:04
Why do they stand still just staring at the walls? And you have to admit that it can be pretty awesome. you go poking in closets for molotovs and pipe bombs and right as you are about to open the door- Oh shit! They're clawing through the fucking door! Shitshitshit! They aren't much threat, since they can't actually hit you until they get through, but it makes you feel skilled to blow apart a huge amount of zombies in that span of time without getting hit.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: OneoftheLost on 18 Nov 2008, 17:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9CdFBohFCk

I thought you guys might like this. The beginning part I mean, maybe something to try? Not sure.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 18 Nov 2008, 19:37
The staring at the walls is one thing, that implies a lack of intelligence or maybe boredom or lack of focus.  To me getting into the closet and waiting is at odds with normal zombie behaviour because it's like, ok let's be intelligent and get into this closet and then wait on the off chance someone comes along.  And how the fuck did they all get into the closet in the first place if they can't open doors?  If this were a movie it would be an unbelievable plot device.  In this setting it is (I guess) an unbelievable game mechanism?  Something to that effect.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 18 Nov 2008, 19:40
I don't think I've seen any in closets.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 18 Nov 2008, 19:42
And I know it's kind of strange to be complaining about believability in a zombie game but I don't think it's too much to ask for a movie, book or game to have an internally consistent setting.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 18 Nov 2008, 19:49
Anyway, I know that I am complaining a lot in this thread but I think that is because from the little I played this morning the game looks potentially awesome and I would hate for some shitty thing to turn me off it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 18 Nov 2008, 20:00
Ehh... the zombies in the closet were hiding from the other zombies, and they got infected. Not sure if it is airborne or bite-borne, incubation time, stuff like that would make a difference.

Basically, what is necessary is for the zombies to come from someplace off-screen, so they can throw hundreds at you without them constantly climbing out of the same hole or something (the hole in the floor behind the minigun in no mercy 2 doesn't count, that attached to a previous room). And I am pretty sure it is standard zombie fare for them to be hiding in the one place in the building you haven't cleared.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 18 Nov 2008, 20:02
Don't give up just yet, your experiences are clearly anomalous and (hopefully) correctable.

And try to resist picking nits with these things. You know what almost ruined Fallout 3 for me? The fact that bottle caps were currency. Who regulates this currency? How the hell do these things have worth? In a post-apoc setting you'd have to have either commodity- or (more likely) barter-based economics.

But obviously, they include currency because it's that much easier on the player. Nonsensical shit ought to be excusable if it offers a clear advantage over alternatives. Zombies can spawn in rooms they wouldn't be able to get into because it creates suspense for the players.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Emaline on 18 Nov 2008, 20:14
Grrrr! We have missed our last two game orders at work! Thus no Left 4 Dead for me yet. :(
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 18 Nov 2008, 21:16
Hmm, so the demo is now locked. Not so good. No way am I dropping $50 on a game if I can't tell if it'll run or not on my pc. I guess I'll have to wait a wee while before I can try it.

Well, being a Source game, it SHOULD run on most anything made in the past three or four years, and even longer before that if you spent a little on upgrades between here and now.

I'm running it on an AthlonXP 2500+, a Radeon 9600XT 128MB AGP, and 1GB PC-3200 RAM.  It's not pretty, and it drops to about 16-22 fps in heavy areas, but it's still playable.  Just make sure you're running the latest drivers for everything, and put everything on as low as it'll go.  If you still want more frames, start dropping the resolution.

EDIT:  Just a notice for people on the fence about picking up L4D - Valve's added L4D to their little "everything Source" superpack on Steam without increasing its price.  It's still just $99 for every single Source game out there; there isn't a better deal in gaming anywhere, folks.  If you already own one or more of the games, you'll be able to "gift" those extra copies to a friend, as long as they have a Steam account (they're free.)  Buy the Source pack and give the gift of gaming to some folks that've been missing out :)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 19 Nov 2008, 05:28
Ok, I have sorted out what was going on now.  Hunters really are quite fast and leap on you in a flash, so that was what that first thing was about.  The next thing was due to a bunch of zombies busting in a wall to get to me, hence them seeming like they had appeared out of nowhere.  The zombies still move faster than I expected them to, but at least knowing that there is no tech problem has allowed me to play the first two levels and enjoy them!

Oh also, I had no sound when I was playing it this morning, so I missed out on all the audible cues you guys were talking about.  With those in the game things are a lot more manageable.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 19 Nov 2008, 06:57
There's multiple ways to explain the closet thing:

The aforementioned hiding factor. Someone may've gotten bitten and not known what was going on and chose to hide in a closet, eventually turning. This falls in especially if there's a group hiding in there and a couple of them turned and attacked the others before they could get the door open.

Another possibility, one that actually pops up in the Walking Dead, is that someone may have corralled a couple of zombies into the closet assuming there was some cure out there and not wanting to shoot their friends and family members. This was a major plot point in Walking Dead when they encountered a heavily religious farmer who'd been corralling zombies into his barn in a refusal to kill them.

Again, I know way the fuck too much about the ins and outs of the zombie holocaust thought process.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Noct on 19 Nov 2008, 11:25
That just means you'll be that much better off when the zombie apocalypse finally hits.

Back to the game, anyone else spend some time with the Versus mode yet?  Playing as the zombies can be incredibly gratifying.  I mean sure, you die a lot... but when you finally isolate a survivor from the group and slowly strangle the life out of him while cackling maniacally... okay maybe that's just me. 

If all else fails, beating the shit out of their entire team as the tank is fun as hell.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: ackblom12 on 19 Nov 2008, 12:24
Man, Kat told me the game came in today. I am so eager to get on to brush up on my Zombie Apocalypse survival skills tonight.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 19 Nov 2008, 15:47
Anybody want to throw out their Steam names if they're playing PC? Mayhaps we could get some games going on tonight, if we're all on at the same time.

Mine's "thepopstalinist".
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 19 Nov 2008, 16:58
Mine is "est_xplosif" but I am not sure if I'll have time to be online tonight.  I'll add you guys to my friends list and look for you when I do get a chance though.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Noct on 19 Nov 2008, 19:00
<---Steam name right there.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 19 Nov 2008, 19:29
Pix3Ls

Or just add the "Pfriends" Steam group and join any of the three servers we're running.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 19 Nov 2008, 21:00
Don't give up just yet, your experiences are clearly anomalous and (hopefully) correctable.

And try to resist picking nits with these things. You know what almost ruined Fallout 3 for me? The fact that bottle caps were currency. Who regulates this currency? How the hell do these things have worth? In a post-apoc setting you'd have to have either commodity- or (more likely) barter-based economics.

But obviously, they include currency because it's that much easier on the player. Nonsensical shit ought to be excusable if it offers a clear advantage over alternatives. Zombies can spawn in rooms they wouldn't be able to get into because it creates suspense for the players.

Bottle caps were the currency for the first game.  It's likely a nostalgia thing for old school players :P
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 20 Nov 2008, 10:34
so finally got a chance to sit down and play a couple of hours of Left 4 Dead last night and man, this game is sick. it's sure as shit ain't easy though. even on normal difficulty, the last stage of a campaign is always a pain in the ass. i've yet to go through an entire campaign without having to restart (we always get slaughtered at least once on the last level). maybe i've just been unlucky with the teammates i've been getting but that seems a little too coicidental.

anyway, Versus mode is fucking sweet. it is so so so satifsfying to snare/pounce/vomit on some idiot who straggled behind the group or ran too far ahead. but only two of the campaigns are available for Versus mode? laaame.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 20 Nov 2008, 21:15
I hadn't heard that.  Can anyone else - preferably with the PC version - confirm/deny?

Best advice is to find a good group of people to play with... I play with (or, rather, will when I can afford to buy L4D next month) the same folks I've played CS, DoD, Battlefield, and TF2 with :)

Word on the street is that a team of them recently beat No Mercy on Expert with nothing but explosives and melee attacks  :lol:
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Emaline on 20 Nov 2008, 23:31
So, our shipment of this finally came in yesterday! And of course, before it was even scanned in, I had to get my copy.


I only had a short amount of time to play, but Jesus H. Christ. I love this game. I haven't played online yet, and just played versus with my brother. Am I the only one not playing on the pc?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: CamusCanDo on 21 Nov 2008, 00:59
Nope, I picked it up today for the 360 and so far only played an hour since my Wii also arrived today too. What I've played I have fucking loved and am foreseeing any plans I had for the weekend totally being ditched in favour for this game.

Anyone interested in a LIVE game sometime this weekend?

*Edit*

Gamer tag is CamusCanDo.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Emaline on 21 Nov 2008, 02:16
My gamertag is andlemonade and yes. I am looking for people to play with.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 21 Nov 2008, 06:48
Man, I need to get my ethernet cord fixed.  On the other hand, though, I'm going up to a friends with some Blue Moon and herb and playing through the entire game in one sitting this weekend.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 21 Nov 2008, 10:19
i'm definitely down for a Live game.

gamertag's Captain Dino.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: ackblom12 on 21 Nov 2008, 10:34
I'm up for it. Live tag is ackblom12.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 21 Nov 2008, 18:11
Man, fuck you guyses and your playing it on Live.

(actually, fuck the system for not allowing Live-Steam matchups)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Johnny C on 22 Nov 2008, 21:33
JCSunshine is my gamertag. I'll be playing by the end of next week.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 23 Nov 2008, 00:25
Man, I wish there was a way I could choose the zombie team every time.  It is so much goddamn fun.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 23 Nov 2008, 08:49
Yeah, so I just played through the entire campaign on normal....holy shit.  I've never been legitimately scared of a game that much.  I was doing fine up until the Tank showed up in those really small tunnels in the sewer level.  I don't think anyone in the history of playing video games has ever unloaded 10 shells as fast as I did.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 23 Nov 2008, 18:57
Holy crap, even better then the demo made it out to be.  Played through the whole first mission with a friend and it was freaking awesome.  Then tried out multiplayer and managed to get all three rounds as humans, and stop the team every time as Special Zombies.  I feel like I need this game now.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: CamusCanDo on 24 Nov 2008, 03:41
Guys I can't stop playing this game. Well ok, I can, for sleep and whatnot but other than this I don't feel like playing anything else, because nothing is as fun as hiding in a closest with three other grown men shitting your collective pants while horde after horde are thrown at you. Or working with a boomer while you're a smoker, hanging a survivor a few feet off the ground while they're being completely ravaged below by infected.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 24 Nov 2008, 11:38
Crap, I totally forgot about the human pinata part
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 24 Nov 2008, 12:13
man FUCK why do I not have any goddamn money for this game?! By the time I'm finally able to get it you will have all moved on towards bigger and better things and I'll be left with the scraps of whatever 11 year old assholes are still playing this in a couple months.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 24 Nov 2008, 12:23
Dude I will be playing this game intermittently for the rest of my life.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 24 Nov 2008, 12:36
I won't be getting it until after Christmas. I just have too much other shit to do.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 24 Nov 2008, 15:00
The versus mode of this game is definitely the new Counterstrike for me.  I'll try playing the co-op game once I have a working mic.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 24 Nov 2008, 15:45
I just wish they'd have more variety with the weapons or the enemies. It's been a week and I feel like I've gotten about as far as I can with the vanilla co-op campaign. Versus is still a blast but it's harder to set up.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 24 Nov 2008, 21:06
Man, fuck you guyses and your playing it on Live.

(actually, fuck the system for not allowing Live-Steam matchups)

PC gamers would have an unfair advantage.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 24 Nov 2008, 21:19
Eh.  That's debatable.  I think it's more an issue of getting the systems to play nice together rather than balance issues.  In a game like this, where the objective is not to kill the most but to survive (or prevent survival), the 'advantage' would only mean they would exist a little longer before getting mauled by the denizens.  Plus, the guns are already really accurate anyway.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 24 Nov 2008, 21:43
Unless I am mistaken and there is something special about the PC version of the game you'll be talking about controls?  People who play console games are as used to the controls on consoles as PC players are the PC controls, so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 24 Nov 2008, 22:36
I have to take SHARK's side on this one. It's difficult to argue that controllers have similar sensitivity and accuracy compared to a mouse. I just doubt it's possible to have that same level of coordination on a gamepad.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 25 Nov 2008, 00:31
Part of it's control, yeah - a gamepad will never equal the precision of a mouse (particularly high-dpi mice designed for gaming), regardless of how adapted folks are.

The other end is that the PC is inherently more configurable than the console end, to the point of custom .cfg's and all kinds of stuff, though I seem to remember some Source games being really picky about that sort of thing.

I'm not saying I'd be opposed to console+PC interactivity (I'd totally go pick up a copy of the latest Halo to show the console gamers how its done ;) ), but that it'd be tricky to implement it fairly for both sides.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 25 Nov 2008, 06:26
I have seen evidence to the contrary, is all I'm sayin'.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 25 Nov 2008, 10:36
man, i am pretty tired of snobby PC gamers saying all the ridiculous things that they like to say.

congratulations, Joe PC, you have an opinion! it's not necessarily right, get over yourself.

"using a mouse is way more accurate than a joystick." Well, then using your own logic i could say that if you had a PC gamer and console game who were equally skilled at Game X standing next to each other, the console gamer would be the more talented one, because his platform of choice was more difficult to master. right? right.

anyway, joystick sensitivity can be adjusted just like a mouse can. honestly, as far as controls go there is no difference between the two platforms besides personal preference (and the sheer number of buttons, obviously).


now, don't think that i'm the other side of the spectrum either (a console elitist/fanboy/whatever). i play games on both, i just generally don't play shooters on PC because i am pretty shit at it, and also i don't have a proper computer chair so it's literally a pain in the ass. i use my PC for stuff like Civ4 and Spore because i can't play those on my 360 or PS3.

the one exception is STALKER, which i caved in and bought because i heard so many good things about it.


bah sorry for the off-topic rant. it's just that all day long i hear "PC gaming is teh shitzz, fukin n00bzorz!!!11!!one!!!1!" and there's only so much i can take.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 25 Nov 2008, 11:22
I think we're just going to have to live with SHARK's inherent elitism, but he's still partially true. I haven't seen anyone with a controller come close to having the precision of even an average gamer with a mouse. I'm not saying one is better than the other, simply that it seems to me that it's absolutely impossible to have that same level of high sensitivity AND accuracy in a joystick setup. Shadowrun (GFWL) was a great example of this because it actually limited the maximum sensitivity allowed on the PC's end to level the playing field.


ANYWAYS, Easter egg in the second stage of the Subway level of No Mercy.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 25 Nov 2008, 14:35
Man, now I am getting a near-overwhelming urge to go buy L4D on the 360 and practice until I am as good at it on the 360 as the pc.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 25 Nov 2008, 15:07
I am pretty average on PC, and I can say with confidence that I am better on the 360.  Part of this is because I have steady fingers, but not steady hands, so recovering my aim from kickback is easier for me with a controller.  Also, my finger reaction time is better than my wrist reaction time.  There are other reasons, I'm just saying that I am definitely better on consoles than I am on PC's.  Case in point: I did most of the Portal puzzles in the first try (also my first playthrough) on the 360.  I ran into trouble towards the end of the PC version because I couldn't move my mouse fast or accurately enough (limited by desk space).  Also, I died less on my run through of all the Half-Life 2 episodes because I was following the hunters and gunships better.

TL;DR, sensitivity doesn't do dick for improving my game, console or PC.



LOOK OUT!  WITCH!
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 25 Nov 2008, 16:12
I am pretty average on PC, and I can say with confidence that I am better on the 360.  Part of this is because I have steady fingers, but not steady hands, so recovering my aim from kickback is easier for me with a controller. 

i'm exactly the same way.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 25 Nov 2008, 17:20
Consoles have autoaim, so in general it would be easier to play well with it than with a PC, but I'd argue that a console has a much lower skill ceiling due to the fact that it's precision is very limited.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 25 Nov 2008, 17:35
consoles don't have autoaim.
games have autoaim. and only some games, at that.


this is relevent because this is the L4D thread and Valve games do not have autoaim. at least i don't think they do; correct me if i'm wrong here.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 25 Nov 2008, 18:04
You guys realise that the "joysticks" are analog thumbpads and have pressure sensitive controls so that they move faster the futher out you press them, right?  It's not like they're running around with fucking Atari-style joysticks to aim, these things are pretty advanced and a lot of people can use them very well.  I mean, I am not one of them, but you can't just say "oh, no-one can use these things as well as a mouse", it is a ridiculous thing to say.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Alex C on 25 Nov 2008, 18:22
I hate the "logic" on both sides of the argument. Like the people who insist that the pc version is less fun because it's just point and click that way.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 25 Nov 2008, 19:06
I'm not trying to be an elitist. Far from it, since I play both console and PC games and like both fairly much.

I think that the mouse is a more precise instrument. I think it is easier to control to a better degree than games on either the Xbox 360 or the PS3 (the N64 was, of course, the pinnacle of modern gaming controllers). I'm not debating whether there are people that could kick my ass playing PC versus 360, but I'd argue that just because one driver in a drag race can beat the other doesn't necessarily mean his car has more power under the hood.

This thread has officially devolved into shit. I'm getting insanely tired of PizzaSHARK's constant elitism, and in another page of this BS it'll break down to dickery all around. Let's get back to L4D.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 25 Nov 2008, 19:26
(the N64 was, of course, the pinnacle of modern gaming controllers)
bahahaha.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 25 Nov 2008, 19:34
I'm not picking sides either, I'm just fighting off dicks with my words.  Dicks.


Anyways, in terms of more content, I think it'd be cool to have some kind of swamp area with lots of fog and shallow water.  Just throwin' my two cents out there.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 25 Nov 2008, 19:40
Oh shit, I forgot to hit "post" in here earlier. Ok, here goes again.

So anyway, back to L4D.  I enforced upon myself a brief hiatus last night.  Not because I didn't want to play, but because I thought that I probably shouldn't play every night this week.  I'll probably play some more this week and definitely over the weekend, and I am still trying to figure out a way to get my short-ass mic cord to plug in and be usable.  I suspect some kind of extension cord will be involved because there is nothing wrong with the headset itself, just the length of the cable (or lack thereof).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 25 Nov 2008, 19:54
consoles don't have autoaim.
games have autoaim. and only some games, at that.


this is relevent because this is the L4D thread and Valve games do not have autoaim. at least i don't think they do; correct me if i'm wrong here.

It does, and you'll find 95% of console games do.

But anyway, this game is awesome.

Left 4 Dead,
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 25 Nov 2008, 21:14
You guys realise that the "joysticks" are analog thumbpads and have pressure sensitive controls so that they move faster the futher out you press them, right?  It's not like they're running around with fucking Atari-style joysticks to aim, these things are pretty advanced and a lot of people can use them very well.  I mean, I am not one of them, but you can't just say "oh, no-one can use these things as well as a mouse", it is a ridiculous thing to say.

That's true, and that's probably why it's difficult to make a direct comparison.  Google can't come up with any kind of specifications for the Xbox 360 gamepads; it's possible that the specs were never released to the public, though I can't see why M$ wouldn't.  Regardless, I strongly doubt that any gamepad can compete with a 4000dpi mouse :)

Ultimately it doesn't matter when it comes to butchering zombies en masse, since console gamers will always adapt to the situation (pretty impressive, IMO, because I can't stand gamepads for most game genres.)  I do admit you guys are pretty damned funny, carrying on and arguing with each other while still blaming me - always nice to come into work and get some free entertainment  :lol:
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 25 Nov 2008, 22:00
(the N64 was, of course, the pinnacle of modern gaming controllers)
bahahaha.
My friend likes his because he can play one-handed for the most part.

I used to be really good with PS2 controls on shooters (especially Battlefront), but I have gotten somewhat worse, since I play shooters almost exclusively on PC now. It just feels much more intuitive for me now, for shooters, at least. I prefer dual-analog for racing games, I'm not much good at racing games on the PC.

Pizza, you make it sound like we are angry with someone. I really don't think we are, though your smugness does get annoying, like any new guy acting big does.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 25 Nov 2008, 22:06
I'm just here mostly for the free entertainment, since work is pretty slow from about midnight to five :P

As far as gamepads go, I really liked the GCN controller.  It felt well-balanced, and a lot of developers did some amazing things with it - Metroid Prime's control scheme rocked.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 25 Nov 2008, 22:09
I don't have much experience with it for FPSs, but it was decent for Enter the Matrix. It did have one big flaw, though. The little yellow stick was too small to be used for dual analog controls easily, and dual-analog is the best setup I have found, as it allows for easy strafing.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: PizzaSHARK on 25 Nov 2008, 23:09
I never quite got the hang of the dual analog deal, though I gimped my way along with a roomie when he was in the middle of a Halo 2 orgy and needed a partner for TDM.  I will admit that I found San Andreas a lot more enjoyable with my venerable old Logitech dual analog gamepad (essentially just a PSX/PS2 dual shock clone), though flying was still impossible.

The little c-stick was an oddity (but what about the GCN wasn't odd, with the giant mutant A button and all), but for most games I played, it worked out well enough :)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Nodaisho on 26 Nov 2008, 01:15
Dual analog took me a while to get used to, I was used to early Ratchet and clank/Jak and daxter controls, but now I find it confusing to go back to those, it is so much easier to dodge fire, though if I hold down the R2 just about constantly on the earlier R&C games, it puts you in circle-strafe mode.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 05 Feb 2009, 18:11
First DLC announced (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/05/first-left-4-dead-dlc-announced/). Will add a new "survival" game mode (if it's anything like other games it will probably be a prolonged wait for rescue that never comes) and 2 new Versus "movies". As someone who doesn't like playing public games, I'd rather they have more campaign "movies", since finding 8 people to play at any one time is such a hassle.

Also, the Source SDK will be released.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 05 Feb 2009, 18:28
Actually, I'd guess "survival" is a time thing against virtually unceasing hordes.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: SilentJ on 05 Feb 2009, 21:17
This game.  It is so good.

It is so good it even has rap artists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtTh00K72gw) on edge.

Sound advice, I must say.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 05 Feb 2009, 21:29
Oh yeah, I finally got this game, anyone who's up for some Expert run-throughs my gamertag is Wickedfall. I think I've got Jimmy on my friends list but no one else so far.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: ackblom12 on 05 Feb 2009, 21:40
Phil, Live or Steam?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 05 Feb 2009, 22:37
Xbox Live.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 06 Feb 2009, 10:13
man, not only did my 360 break last week but, even if it hadn't, i just moved into a new house with no internet.

lame

Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: SilentJ on 06 Feb 2009, 12:10
Oh, I forgot.

Gamertag is SilentJ1018 if anybody needs another partner for online play.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 14 Feb 2009, 23:25
DRUNK POST:


It's 25$ on Steam this weekend.  GET IT NOW SDPAPRHG WERPDLK ESL:DKF SAA LWKJHETGSDLK:H BRAAAAAAAAAAAIIINNNSSSSSSSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 15 Feb 2009, 16:18
Yeah I just came in to say it was $25 this weekend but I guess you beat me to it.  Saying it anyway to bump the thread, because if any of you guys don't got it you should get it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 16 Feb 2009, 13:16
Is anyone else here actually running the game on PC, as opposed to 360? I'm really tempted to spring for the Steam deal, but I seem to recall most people I know are playing it on XBL. That said, I'm dying to really play this game and that $25 deal is extremely hard to pass up, especially since they've extended it to tomorrow. Anyone else?

And if any of you are playing it on PC, how well would the following run it:

2.51 ghz dual core AMD processor
3 gigs of ram
nvidia GeForce 8500 GT with DirectX 10

I know the recommended specs are definitely lower than that, but if I'm going PC, I want it to look as good as it does on my 360's demo.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 16 Feb 2009, 13:23
Fairly well.  You probably won't be able to have any AA enabled, and you'll probably have a couple settings on medium, but it should run reasonably fast.  If you could, I'd spring for a slightly newer card with more VRAM, but that one'll do.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 16 Feb 2009, 13:30
Addendum, I couldn't figure out which size RAM 8500 I had, but I found the box, it's a 512 MB version.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 16 Feb 2009, 15:20
It also depends on how well you can play fps games on a console.  For me the answer is "abysmally" so Steam is pretty much the One True Way.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 16 Feb 2009, 15:28
L4D plays pretty darn well on the console.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 16 Feb 2009, 17:25
I have to say it really does play well on the console. Once you're used to console shooters, that is. I haven't played an FPS on the computer for quite a while, so actually I'm betting I'd suck really hard if I tried playing it on the computer right now.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 16 Feb 2009, 17:32
have you ever seen a blind manatee try to climb a tree?


that's what it's like when i try to play shooters with a mouse and keyboard. it's hilariously pathetic.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 16 Feb 2009, 17:36
have you ever seen a blind manatee try to climb a tree?


that's what it's like when i try to play shooters with a mouse and keyboard. it's hilariously pathetic.

Yeah... you're quite wrong.

I still feel that mouse&boarders will always have the advantage, because the mouse provides a perfectly natural analogue input.  You want to do a 180, a 90, a 45... easy.  You want to spin fast, slow, fine.

The console cannot match that.  It has the button for a 180 and everything else is still roughly digital. 

It's much better than it used to be, but I still believe the mouse/keyboard is a better input system for an FPS.

Halo notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 16 Feb 2009, 17:43
wow you completely missed the point of that post.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 16 Feb 2009, 17:48
Yeah, controls are extremely subjective.  I am really shit at fps games on consoles, so "L4D plays pretty darn well on the console." means jack shit to me, who would still not be able to play it.  Likewise SWM said he is shit at playing it on the KB+mouse, so there's no point in calling him wrong about it, it's just his experience.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 16 Feb 2009, 17:51
exactly.

PC is probably "better" whatever that means, but that does not change the fact that i am dogshit horrible at it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 17 Feb 2009, 14:27
man, i am pretty tired of snobby PC gamers saying all the ridiculous things that they like to say.

congratulations, Joe PC, you have an opinion! it's not necessarily right, get over yourself.

"using a mouse is way more accurate than a joystick." Well, then using your own logic i could say that if you had a PC gamer and console game who were equally skilled at Game X standing next to each other, the console gamer would be the more talented one, because his platform of choice was more difficult to master. right? right.

anyway, joystick sensitivity can be adjusted just like a mouse can. honestly, as far as controls go there is no difference between the two platforms besides personal preference (and the sheer number of buttons, obviously).


now, don't think that i'm the other side of the spectrum either (a console elitist/fanboy/whatever). i play games on both, i just generally don't play shooters on PC because i am pretty shit at it, and also i don't have a proper computer chair so it's literally a pain in the ass. i use my PC for stuff like Civ4 and Spore because i can't play those on my 360 or PS3.

the one exception is STALKER, which i caved in and bought because i heard so many good things about it.


bah sorry for the off-topic rant. it's just that all day long i hear "PC gaming is teh shitzz, fukin n00bzorz!!!11!!one!!!1!" and there's only so much i can take.


I'm sorry if this has been answered but a mouse will always be more accurate than a joystick, at least until the upload the movement rate of joysticks a bit
with the current technology joystick sensitivity can be changed, but they still aren't as accurate as mice, mouse sensitivity changes the rate at which it moves, a higher joystick sensitivity makes it move at higher increments causing it to be less accurate and have larger deadspots

sorry to bust your bubble bud, but it's not just a preference it's technology
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 17 Feb 2009, 15:28
sorry to bust your bubble bud, but it's not just a preference it's technology


fuckin sig'd
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 17 Feb 2009, 15:30
Yeah, because having a higher DPI on your mouse matters more than skill.  It must be true, I read it on the side of a gaming mouse box!

Snark aside, I think everyone knows the technical details involved.  Some people just prefer to play on X rather than Y because it feels more comfortable for them.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 17 Feb 2009, 15:31
Also wtf is up with noobs talking smack so much lately.  What is happening to the youth of the world.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 17 Feb 2009, 15:32
Oh, why hello pagebreak.  Fancy meeting you here.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 17 Feb 2009, 15:32
If you're not doing anything later you want to hang out?  Maybe get a cup of coffee?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 17 Feb 2009, 16:45
I'm just wondering why he's responding to a post made back in freakin' November.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 17 Feb 2009, 17:56
Get the fuck away from my pagebreak you fucking fuckster.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 17 Feb 2009, 18:25
Pagebreak and I have an open relationship.

So fair warning, if anything happens I get to watch.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 17 Feb 2009, 19:01
you do realize that skill has no relevance in the argument of which is "better", not which you like better

I agree that you are allowed to have your opinion I'm just saying that the mouse is better suited to accurate movement

if you like console better that's your decision

and just because I joined this forum three days ago doesn't make me a noob, the fact that you think so might make you a dumb ass though

tootles
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 17 Feb 2009, 19:17
Actually, by definition, you are a noob to this forum, considering you are noob, not all forums are the same. That aside, no one called you a noob. You came in and gave your opinion on a post made a full three months ago in a relatively antagonistic manner and are continuing to be rather defensive about the matter for no real discernible reason, subsequently derailing the thread.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 17 Feb 2009, 19:19
We're calling you a noob not because you are a newbie to video games or web forums, but rather to this forum and its culture. I suggest you lurk a bit longer and stop antagonizing one of the forum administrators. (One of the things that hints at you being a noob).\

Edit: God damnit Jon you beat me to it, and with nearly the exact same choice of diction!
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 17 Feb 2009, 19:59
THE BOARD HAS BEEN OVERRULED

VERDICT: EAT A BAG OF DICKS
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 17 Feb 2009, 20:04
ha ha fatstrings moar liek fatdicks* amirite


* (in yr mouth)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Spluff on 17 Feb 2009, 20:07
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/jackiechanfrustrated.jpg)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 18 Feb 2009, 01:55
I'm sorry if I'm being to "uppity" for a newcomer, I just happen to be an opinionated, I admit it, person, who read a thread b/c the subject is something I am quite fond of.  I placed an argument to a statement that, though in some points is quite accurate, coalesced into an utterly bitchtastic rant

I have partaken largely of mature forums for quite a while and have always found it to be somewhat ridiculous when an entire forum considers any statement by a newcomer to be unfounded just because they are such
I could understand if I hadn't made a valid point

I apologize for not checking the date, but the point remains, I don't appreciate being treated like a dumb shit simply because I wasn't a member a weak ago, at least allow me to make an ass of myself before you treat me as such

of course, judging by your past reactions to me you probably have already made this decision, in which case, I'll sit around a bit more and decide whether or not this community is one I wish to be a part of  [/2cents]
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: lolwut on 18 Feb 2009, 05:50
I'm sorry if I'm being to "uppity" for a newcomer, I just happen to be an opinionated, I admit it, person, who read a thread b/c the subject is something I am quite fond of.  I placed an argument to a statement that, though in some points is quite accurate, coalesced into an utterly bitchtastic rant

i'm glad that you admit to being a person

if only more people were like you then maybe the world wouldn't be such a mess
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 18 Feb 2009, 10:08
I AM A ROBOT

BEEP
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 18 Feb 2009, 10:15
Stuff

Well as long as you deign to be here the name fatdicks may very well stick*.


*in yr mouth
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 18 Feb 2009, 10:34
I have partaken largely of mature forums for quite a while and have always found it to be somewhat ridiculous when an entire forum considers any statement by a newcomer to be unfounded just because they are such
I could understand if I hadn't made a valid point

I apologize for not checking the date, but the point remains, I don't appreciate being treated like a dumb shit simply because I wasn't a member a weak ago, at least allow me to make an ass of myself before you treat me as such

No one had a problem either with your opinion nor necessarily the fact you're new (On its own, anyway). The problem is that you made your point in a relatively dickish and condescending manner. That doesn't generally fly to begin with, especially with someone new. You don't just walk into a party and interrupt conversations to condescend someone about a point they made ten to twenty minutes prior to your interjection, do you?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 18 Feb 2009, 11:16
I actually see great potential in a friendship between you and Jon-boy here, Fats. May I call you Fats? Fatstrings seems so impersonal.


In a totally unrelated story one of my neighbors' dogs is named Fats, and I may or may not have been searching for the right moment to give it as a nickname to someone. Man, speaking of dicks though I almost feel a bit childish today. But at the same time, calling someone else on the forum like Est, who we all know and love, a dumb ass and then getting defensive when we treat you like a dumb shit, ye who are a total stranger that I don't give two shits about, seems justified.

I'm also just using your words here, not mine.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 18 Feb 2009, 15:59
You can call me that I guess if you want, but it's usually my friends that call me fats

I probably wouldn't have been so condescending if it weren't for the fact that the post I was responding to was made in an incredibly dickish manner.  After my original post I received a comment by a "moderator" about how the "noobs" are talking smack, would you not yourself be on the defense, if you responded to an condescending post in a similar manner and someone chastised you over your head

I'm sorry guys, but I just don't see the sense in that, I understand not letting some kid you don't know treat you a way that is allowed to only your friends, but there's a difference between that and  chastising someone for stating their opinion with some fervor.

I wasn't calling him a dumb ass because his opinion regarding the argument was unwarranted, in fact I agreed with his statement about opinion, you know the rest, I don't want to repeat myself

either way, I think this argument has exhausted itself, I hope to meet on better terms in a later date

but anyway I'm done with my rant and will let this train wreck of a threat die away, unless, I guess, it gets back on track, in which case I would join in
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 18 Feb 2009, 20:04
that is one of the best analysis' of that game I've ever heard

couldn't agree more :P

it's worth it to get those awesome games though and I make sure to friend them so they happen more frequently later
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 18 Feb 2009, 20:15
Yeah, I have to say, good groups are absolutely essential. I only play in expert when my friends are online that I know and can talk to for tactics, pickup games are almost always standard simply because I can't trust that the other guys won't accidently set me on fire while I'm being pounced by a hunter. Can't trust that in standard either, but at least on expert you can call them noobs. (there I go again, antagonistic little me, weee)

Seriously though, how in the hell did you get stomach upset so easily? that's one of 6 of the achievements I don't have, which include zombie genocidest and what are you trying to prove?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: est on 18 Feb 2009, 20:42
I probably wouldn't have been so condescending ...

Except that you had already been condescending when you said

Quote from: Fatstrings
sorry to bust your bubble bud, (etc)

which is one of the main reasons why I replied the way I did.  I'm not gonna get back into the mouse v joystick thing, because I think Jens covered/summarised it well enough.

Also, what I said mostly wasn't even about you.  Your comment was pretty tame, but lately there's been an influx of new people who fit the description John (0bsessions) laid out even more strongly than you do.  Talking to people in a disrespectful manner, reacting badly to comments because they don't know the people making the comments, not getting in-jokes and having a shitfit, that sort of thing.

If you weren't so new around here you'd probably have known that a. I'm not entirely serious most times when I say shit like I did and b. I am an admin, not a moderator and as such if you antagonise me too much I can ban you.  I mean, I probably won't because I am not a jerk, but it's still not an overly intelligent idea to come into a place and start stomping on the toes of the bouncers.

So anyway, I agree Jens.  My fun in Left4Dead is extremely dependent on the quality of team-mate.  A couple of times I've jagged a spot on a team where the guys all had mics and all knew how to communicate properly.  Those were the best games of L4D I've yet played, simply because by communicating effectively we worked better as a unit and were less susceptible to being singled out for attack.  I also learned a lot about playing as a special zombie during one of those times, with a few of us using Hunters to herd the survivors together, then a Boomer dropping on them from above and other fun stuff like that.

I recently reinstalled Windows, so I don't have this on my machine at the moment.  I'm gonna have to reinstall so I can check out the add-on pack when it comes out, but I am not overly excited about it.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 19 Feb 2009, 10:04
well apologies to taking offense then, I also am generally not trying to be an actual ass when I talk that way and tend to be quite sarcastic

also, I hadn't much sleep that night due to a design build project and I'm not usually one for excuses but I was on a short string before I even read the post

but anyway I'm done with this series of rants if you guys are and ready to move on

speaking of which, I'm always down with getting new decent people to play with so if you guys are down my steam id is  Fatstrings

feel free to add if you're interested
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 20 Feb 2009, 00:53
Try it on Expert, you pussy!

ps you aren't actually a pussy and i'm glad you're having fun
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 20 Feb 2009, 07:38
hah, in reality I've noticed that l4d gets to the point for just about everyone where you have to play expert, advanced just gets too easy, my problem is none of my friends of old, the reason I bought the game, want to play expert so I just do the campaigns when none of them are one, they also don't like versus, so it turns into me trying to make advanced interesting

which is not an easy task, oh well, it's still and awesome game

and btw, does anyone know when the big update comes out?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 20 Feb 2009, 09:29
I'm still trying to get untouchables, I got through a campaign with no friendly fire, but I it was Mercy and a tank tossed me off the building, didn't survive so didn't get it :(
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 21 Feb 2009, 11:07
Jens, to get the no healing achievement, all you have to do is die if you get below half health. At the end of each round (or even if you're close to a spawning point) let one of the other survivors execute you, respawn and instant half health, no medpacks required. useful if half the team is in the red. Not epix on the storytelling level, but meh.

Yeah I basically have all of the achievements except the ridiculously hard ones, which means zombie genocidest, what are you trying to prove, stomach upset, untouchables, nothing special, safety first and for some reason barf bag, I can't seem to get all four people at once in a versus match.

My favorite achievement was man vs tank actually, back before I finally bumped up my game to expert mode. Basically we were on hard mode, no medpacks, I was in yellow and the other three survivors were in red. The tank spawns at the entrance to the hospital on no mercy and for some reason I'm in the back of the group so I'm the last one up the ladder, the tank hits a car that smashes into all three of them, killing two instantly and knocking the third one down on the other side of the car, out of firing range for dealing with the tank. I fire off a clip to get its attention and drop back down the hole into the sewers, where it follows. My other friend (who I know in meatlife) is firing away at a horde of zombies up top while I'm downstairs doing a run, turn, empty a clip routine through the sewers. Up the ladder my friend goes down in a blaze of glory when a horde rushes him and wipes him out, while I manage to take down the tank on my own, getting the achievement, and both of the other members of my party pop up revived in a room right next to me, and I let them out. The three of us race back up, I toss the pipe bomb that I have (if I'd had a molotov it would've been so much easier) and rush the safe room, dodging a hunter and a boomer.

Only slightly less fun was when I got All 4 Dead on versus mode. mwuahahaha.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 21 Feb 2009, 11:21
my man vs tank was actually kind of funny

I burned a tank in expert and my team started booking it away to let him die in peace, he comes after me and I fire one shot, hit him and run

got the achievement and at the end of the level it showed I did like 60 dmg and killed him, the nades don't count on your damage I thought it was hilarious
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 21 Feb 2009, 13:00
I cheated like hell on the Man vs Tank achievement. Single player, expert mode, shoot all teammates stone dead. Change difficulty to Normal (otherwise tank spawns are super rare), and change again to Easy the moment you see him. Pieceacake!

That's how my friend was bragging he did it, though he had a friend with him just in case.

The one I can't seem to get is the "Smoker drag them 100 feet" one.  I'm usually the Smoker on the roof top or around the corner so I can feel some measure of safety.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 21 Feb 2009, 14:08
I got that one by dragging a character across the street while on the opposite rooftop in No Mercy stage 1
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Fatstrings on 21 Feb 2009, 21:38
corn field, snagged him from behind the fence to the left of the bluff, just went for the last one, was surprised at the achievement myself though
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 17 Apr 2009, 13:48
The free DLC hits next week with the new Survival Mode.  Here's a spawn graph detailing how things will go in Survival the longer you and your teammates are playing:
(http://www.l4d.com/blog/images/posts/012/spawn-graph.jpg)
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 17 Apr 2009, 15:42
I can appreciate a system wherein I can kill a new tank every 7 seconds.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 17 Apr 2009, 15:55
I can safely say that anyone surviving past 20 minutes is probably using rocket launchers.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Surgoshan on 17 Apr 2009, 21:40
I can appreciate a system wherein I can kill fight a new tank every 7 seconds.

Fixed that for ya.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 18 Apr 2009, 00:42
From what I hear (got no source on this one) the record for the people who designed the game is 9 minutes before death. No doubt there are people out there who could last longer, but still.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Ozymandias on 18 Apr 2009, 01:07
From what I hear (got no source on this one) the record for the people who designed the game is 9 minutes before death. No doubt there are people out there who could last longer, but still.

lol
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 21 Apr 2009, 19:57
C'mon guys, why aren't you chatting it up about our best times?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 21 Apr 2009, 20:14
School.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 21 Apr 2009, 20:22
Yeah, dude, I have two papers due in a week from now that I've not really started on.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 21 Apr 2009, 21:14
You all sicken me, and this game mode is kicking my ass.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 21 Apr 2009, 21:27
So I played once and lasted 3 minutes.  Unfortunately, my system does not seem to like this game very much.  Most of the time it'll run at great framerates, but then it'll chug for up to 8 seconds or so at random intervals.  I don't know, I'm gonna have to tinker with settings or something until I can play this game decently.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 21 Apr 2009, 21:33
I had the same problem, there's an easy fix. If you're running with a dual core you need to ctrl+alt+delete and find the system task for L4D. Right click on it and set the core affinity to just one of the cores. Your problems should end.

Note that you'll probably have to do this every time you start up the game.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 21 Apr 2009, 22:37
or you could just play it on the Xbox.

Anyway yeah, survived for 8:49 in the Generator room. There were epic moments of bravery that I have not yet witnessed in a game. At one point there was only one person standing, and the three of us were covering him as he healed us one at a time, the horde ends and we all heal up just as another tank spawns.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 21 Apr 2009, 23:07
My best so far is 12:32 on Death Toll: Streets. I think the best Valve record is somewhere in the 14 minute range.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 22 Apr 2009, 08:01
I had the same problem, there's an easy fix. If you're running with a dual core you need to ctrl+alt+delete and find the system task for L4D. Right click on it and set the core affinity to just one of the cores. Your problems should end.

Note that you'll probably have to do this every time you start up the game.

Why include an option for multi-core processing, then?  Gah...I have a dual-core that I can't use.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: KvP on 22 Apr 2009, 11:08
L4D isn't terribly processor-intensive so it shouldn't matter! I have a 2 Ghz dual core system and a 2.4 Ghz dual core system and they both run without a hitch on a single core.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 22 Apr 2009, 12:51
Dual-core processing is sort of new, and some older hardware might not like playing with it. Switching to single-core isn't so much a move to counter the game engine than it is to counter faults due to any old equipment or drivers.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Dimmukane on 22 Apr 2009, 13:02
Yeah, it must be my processor...it's an FX-74, which was discontinued 3 months after I bought it.  Which sucks, cuz I paid about 270 for it.  And it was a unique socket. 
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 22 Apr 2009, 13:12
Gosh dang I wish I wasn't a bad person.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Johnny C on 22 Apr 2009, 15:14
yo xbox people let's set up a run through i never got to do one before my xbox took a shit
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 22 Apr 2009, 19:41
I have noticed L4D players on the PC are still twats.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 22 Apr 2009, 21:15
oh god guys, I made 12 minutes dead even on the Bridge in Blood harvest today. My other highs are 8:45 on the church in death toll and 8:29 on the generator room in no mercy
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 22 Apr 2009, 22:04
It's really too bad that there aren't more levels specifically adapted to Survival, because the level of micromanaging you can do in Last Stand is actually quite entertaining.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Darke on 23 Apr 2009, 06:53
I have noticed L4D players on the PC are still twats.
Seriously. It's impressive that after this long people still don't quite understand "There's a witch, turn your lights off."
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Felrender on 23 Apr 2009, 10:33
I have noticed L4D players on the PC are still twats.
Seriously. It's impressive that after this long people still don't quite understand "There's a witch, turn your lights off."

Oh, Xbox players can still be bad, especially in Versus.  Y'know, like Hunters pouncing a constricted player, rather than going for the one guy running ahead.
Seriously, "More damage" or not, you still just broke my fucking tongue, douchebag.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Darke on 23 Apr 2009, 14:57
Having played on both systems, the XBox crowd are definitely worse. No surprise there, really.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 23 Apr 2009, 19:40
Finally got the  Man vs Tank achievement, and the best part was that I was safely inside of the safe room.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Felrender on 24 Apr 2009, 11:15
What difficulty setting?
(Nothing specific against you, but I think that some of the achievements need a "Completed in (blahblah) difficulty")
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 24 Apr 2009, 11:43
Normal

I heard him as I was going for the safe room so I ran inside, closed the door, and proceeded to fill him with holes, all the while safe inside and out of harms way.

Also, thanks to the inappropriate actions of a member on the opposite team, I was able to get Barf Bagged too.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Hat on 05 May 2009, 21:08
yo xbox people let's set up a run through i never got to do one before my xbox took a shit

I'm down dogg my tag is fleshymidget lets do this.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Will on 05 May 2009, 21:36
Gorilla Will is my tag. Sign me up!
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 05 May 2009, 21:38
fuck guys I need a new cd, my copy for the xbox has developed some pretty major cracks in it and now freezes periodically. The weird thing is this has also happened to my friend, so maybe we're thinking that this could be some sort of common problem? And yes, I handle my discs extremely carefully and I'm pretty sure the cracks happened just from putting it back in its case. I've been using a slipcase ever since, thought about doing the same with all of my games.

Also my tag is Wickedfall, I haven't really gotten to play with anyone yet either.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Blue Kitty on 05 May 2009, 21:52
I need more people to kill zombies with, my tag is Golden Sentry


Also, I found out that the rock glitch in the last confrontation on Death Toll still works in Survival.  My friend and I survived for 10 minutes on top of the rock on the water before the zombie hoard finally whittled our health down to nothing.  All we had to worry about was being jumped by Hunters, pulled by Smokers, and slabs of concrete thrown at us by Tanks.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Will on 05 May 2009, 22:01
BK, I accidentally hit deny when you friended me, try again?
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: 0bsessions on 13 May 2009, 16:49
Okay, kids, time for a refresher. Gimme some steam ID's, as I am sick of this bullshit AI. Mine's 0bsessions.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 13 May 2009, 16:56
Mine is tavis35. Would love to do some survival.

Also, I'm just gonna leave this here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmQtDQVRVLI).
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: Melodic on 13 May 2009, 19:21
I'm Pix3Ls, but you'll see me as [Pfeffer]Sc[ + ]pe in-game.
Title: Re: Have we talked about Left 4 Dead yet?
Post by: JD on 14 May 2009, 18:30
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/questionablecontent (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/questionablecontent)

Pm one of the administrators in that group, they'll add you.