THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => ENJOY => Topic started by: Eris on 11 Sep 2008, 00:21
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Ok, so I have been meaning to start a thread about these books for the past few days since I decided to reread them all rather than write an essay.
Now, I have read all of the books, and enjoyed reading them, but I will be the first to admit that they are pretty average books. I have a weak spot for vampire stories, so this series is appealing in that sense, but at the same time I am not a rabid fangirl (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-turfrcQY-w) frothing at the mouth to see the movie.
If I had to simplify why I don't overly like the books, it would be because they are, in essence, trashy teenage stories; y'know, the kinds of books you read when you're on holiday and don't want to have to think that much. You know how it's going to end, because it's predictably set out in a certain way. It the whole "boy meets girl; girl falls in love but doesn't know boy loves her; ditto for the boy; they realise; a challenger appears; LOVE TRIANGLE; boy and girl end up together" It's been done before (and done better, really) so it's more of an ironic enjoyment - they're so bad they're good kind of deal. In that vein the movie is probably going to be trashy as well. I am going to go see it, but I don't expect a film masterpiece that will go down in history; the books they're working off aren't that, so why should the movies be any different?
What do you think of the series? Do you love them, hate them, don't see what the big deal is about them?
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The people who I've met that read the Twilight series don't really read other books.
I think that frustrates me the most.
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At least it's not the Anita Blake series.
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Hamilton, always without fail, manages to successfully fill my crap quota for roughly 3 months.
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Rachel's been obsessed with this garbage for a month or two now. As she read through them, I would peak in on it here or there to see what all the fuss was about. It's really just absolute dreck in every manner possible. It really reads like some teenage girl's LiveJournal and hey, that may be the point, but that doesn't save it from being garbage.
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Vampire stories have been ruined for me ever since I was in a fantasy writing group and had to read a middle-aged man's epic novel about a polyamorous bisexual vampiress. No thank you, ma'am!
I for one want to see more trashy romance novels about a) cyborgs b) steam-powered mechanical pegasi c) Homo florensiensis. Vampires are SO OLD.
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The problem that I think Twilight has, not that it matters now that it's on track to be the next Harry Potter, is that it'll probably alienate boys of a certain age due to the emphasis on the love story that comes from the perspective of the girl protagonist (correct me if I'm wrong)
I'm not really interested because for one, I never really liked Harry Potter and I'm not likely to like this, but there's another, better reason. Thing is, vampire fiction is played out. It really is. There's not a fresh angle on the fucking thing. Vampires as teh gayz? done. Vampires as embodiment of sex? Goes back to Bram Stoker. Vampires as addicts? done. Vampires as predators / humans as prey? done. Vampires as Gods? done. Demons? done. Angels? done. Superheroes? done. Moral decay amongst the youths? done. You name it, it's been explored. Not that there's anything wrong with tilling old fields, but you have to be of a certain mind to enjoy it.
Honestly I'm surprised it took them this long to bring vampire lit to the kiddie market. They've already discovered that vampires make for an endless supply of Bodice-Ripper pulp and of course they're mainstays of horror.
Better than zombies at least, in my opinion.
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Twilight, no matter how much I enjoy it in a very ironic way, will never be "the next Harry Potter." The series is done. Boom. Not enough time between books, the writing not as good, everything. The Harry Potter series and movie franchise are huge. People from all age groups and cultural groups love them. Just not the Catholic church, but whatever. Twilight does not and will not appear to that large of any audience.
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Dunno, it seemed to make a pretty huge dent at Comic-Con. Lots and lots of kids there just for Twilight, homemade shirts and everything.
I'm predicting it will reach at least Goosebumps-level popularity.
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My sister and her best friend really seemed to enjoy it, so I gave the Twilight series a whirl and gave up halfway through the second novel. I think the series is vapid shit. I recognize that it is essentially a teen romance novel, but that excuse doesn't hold water forever. A largely romantic story can still be very interesting. Romance can be a great storytelling tool because it can put various qualties of the characters and how they relate to the world in stark relief. Stories like Casa Blanca and Gone With The Wind are good examples. In such stories the characters have things they give a crap about outside of love and romance and even have greater values and breaking points to which even relationships must give way. At the end of the story, you know what kind of people they are. To put it bluntly, Twilight's protagonist is largely a character without any apparent moral character. This isn't to say she's a bad person, just that I read a novel and a half without seeing her defined by anything but longing (and apparently, clumsiness).
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You ungrateful little turds.
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John, Goosebumps was a huge series of books that went on for a long time. Harry Potter was spread out over ages. The Twilight series is done; no more books, Meyer is moving on to other vapid trash (There was supposed to be a version of the first book done in Edward's perspective, but the first 12 chapters got leaked online and she chucked the shits and put in on hold indefinitely). The only way the series gets any bigger will be from the movies, but even then I am pretty sure people will forget about it all pretty quickly. It's not different enough to keep people interested, and not well written enough to be an average story that stays popular.
I do have a big issue with the characterisation. Bella is a terribly pathetic character; you don't feel all that interested in her throughout the books and it's mostly in her perspective. In fact, none of them are particularly engaging characters, because there's not that much description of them. Bella is clumsy, loves Edward (Oh no wait, she loves Jacob too, scandal!), wants to be a vampire. That's it. Oh wait, she smells delicious and everyone wants to kill her. Edward loves Bella, is crazy overprotective, doesn't want to turn her into a vampire, and is GORGEOUS. Wow, great couple there. It's just very shallow; Meyer's writing has kind of gotten better over time, but Host has the same kind of pathetic main character (and goddamn love triangle) as this, so maybe she just likes having weak lady protagonists?
It really does read like a teenage version of a penny dreadful. I have read a fair amount of those kind of books and it has been much better. I've read worse, but don't get why people obsess over them. The only good thing about having such little characterisation in the book means the readers can create whatever kind of fantasy they want and it won't seem that out of the ordinary. Hmmm, I wonder what kind of fanfics there are out there...
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Point taken.
*edit - blast, that isn't as blue as I remember it being.
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I think what we should really just say here is that vampires just bite. No, suck. Blow?
They are too good as villains to be wasted as whiny-ass protagonists.
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I think it just bothers me that the two main characters are as text book gary and mary - sue as possible. Also, they apparently are soulmate based on two facts 1) she smells nice 2) he's pretty.
Seriously, I might not mind if SM didn't feel the need to mention the fact that he had a piercing gaze every paragraph.
Seriously, it's fine if you're reading it as trashy fun. But good god they fall in deep forever love pretty much at first sight. Also, if you're going to have over half the book where the one of the main male leads is 'unexpectedly' a vampire, please don't put that on the back. rgrgrg.
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They are too good as villains to be wasted as whiny-ass protagonists.
Ah, but their eternal, all-encompassing and important angst and their everlasting youth/beauty are exactly what makes them so appealing to teenagers. Being pretty, invincible and unique but being terribly morose about everything are what being a teen is all about!
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Stephenie Meyer is a Mormon.
How many questions did I just answer then? C'mon gimme a figure.
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Man, I do not see what the big deal about these books is. People write / publish / read / become fanatic about absolute shit all the time; these books seem entirely too bland for me to either read or actively hate.
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Stephenie Meyer is a Mormon.
How many questions did I just answer then? C'mon gimme a figure.
This may be the most retarded thing I've seen you post? Just maybe.
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Man, I do not see what the big deal about these books is. People write / publish / read / become fanatic about absolute shit all the time; these books seem entirely too bland for me to either read or actively hate.
Eh, I only actively hated them as I was reading them. They're really only noteworthy thanks to sheer notoriety. It's like some kind of weird, idiotic feedback loop.
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Hamilton, always without fail, manages to successfully fill my crap quota for roughly 3 months.
Yes. I read the next Anita Blake, for some reason, even though I know that it will be shittier than the last, and then I can read Serious Difficult Prose for a long time after that brain holiday.
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One of my good friends had a good point about the series. Vapid bullshit aside, the love interest is as three-dimensional as a sheet of paper. All of his lines can effectively be replaced with "I love you, but shit, I'm a vampire."
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I read about 40 pages of the first book in the series, because one of my close (female) friends was always carrying it around and going on about how great it was. The only thing that kept me reading even that long was sheer incredulity at how god-awful it was.
I had to read an entire Thomas Pynchon novel to get the stupid out of my brain.
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Everyone on the Nerdfighters website adores these books. They also are rabid Harry Potter fans, but I am not one to judge.
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Stephenie Meyer is a Mormon.
How many questions did I just answer then? C'mon gimme a figure.
This may be the most retarded thing I've seen you post? Just maybe.
Well to be fair there aren't any good (non-ex) Mormon writers that I can think of. The first two Ender books = the pinnacle of Mormon literary culture? I guess they're too busy raisin' babies to practice writing.
The protagonist's name is BELLA? Holy christ. I'm going to have to get these out just for the larfs now. Although if they're making a movie I'll just wait for that and larf at it. This has to be worse than most of the crap written for Nanowrimo (http://www.nanowrimo.org). How many more trees must die?!?
ETA: After reading the summaries of the books on Wikipedia (half our office is out due to power outages, including all the people I type for, so I'm going to have a long lazy nothing day), there is a definite Mormon theme to them. Namely that marriage and family is the most important thing a woman can attain, enough so that she sacrifices her ties with the human world to marry her One True Love and have kids ASAP. And the battle between the "alabaster" vampires and the Native American werewolves. And that the main character doesn't have sex until marriage, because the righteous vampire told her they had to get married first. NRB is right, this is Mormon fiction. (And like no offense to any practicing Mormons who might post here, but like, your church is sort of a cult. Even more than regular Christianity. Oh now I've gone and offended Christians too.)
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Stephenie Meyer is a twat, and this is "Mormon fiction," but saying "Stephanie Meyer is a Mormon" should not "answer questions."
Card still manages to produce some decent stories, even with the Mormon spotlight on him (I quite like his contemporary fantasy thing, Magic Street). I know oh-so-many people despise The Killers, but Brandon Flowers is Mormon? I mean he doesn't seem the type, does he? But he is. That dude who was behind the original Battlestar Galactica series (comparatively terrible and pretty blatantly Mormon, it was originally called Adam's Ark, but still) and pretty instrumental in a couple other classics, like Magnum P.I. and Knight Rider? Yeah. Gladys Knight? I hate to say them because they don't help the image, but the Osmonds? That dude from The Aquabats, and... oih yeah, Alan Sparhawk. That's right, the guy behind Low.
All I am saying is being Mormon is not mutually exclusive with being an awesome person. I am not defending Stephenie Meyer, as frankly I think her work is bunk and her prominence (especially in the "cult"ure of Utah and Idaho, which is pretty embarassing, I mean those people have put their own weird twist on the fundamentals and simply taken it far too far) is unwarranted, but you've got to recognize that NRB's post was pretty retarded.
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I find it ironic when people exhibit their great offense towards something by using the word retarded.
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And the battle between the "alabaster" vampires and the Native American werewolves.
I take issue with how you're spinning that bit, considering the generally positive portrayal of the Native American werewolves. For the most part they're the good guys.
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And the battle between the "alabaster" vampires and the Native American werewolves.
I take issue with how you're spinning that bit, considering the generally positive portrayal of the Native American werewolves. For the most part they're the good guys.
I didn't know whether they were good or bad, it just reminded me of the (epic!1!) battle between the Lamanites and the Nephites. Also that people turn paler when they become vampires, yeah that's true with other vampires too cause there's no blood, but Mormon mythology says good spirits are rewarded by being white in this life. Of course they canceled that bit of doctrine when it became politically indefensible, but the fundamentalists still believe it. When's a brother vampire gonna get a break?
I did not know Alan Sparhawk was Mormon. Learn something every day! Of course I've never noticed a Mormon or even religious theme in Low's music so it's not quite the same as Meyer. But no, I don't think people are automatically uncool if they're Mormon. The only true uncool religion is Scientology. And before someone says it, no, I don't buy Beck's albums.
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I like to pretend that Scientologists are really operating the whole thing as an elaborate front so they can have what amounts to self-sustaining, untaxed country clubs. The batshit insane stuff they spew out is just there to drive off people they don't want joining anyway. Crazy conspiracy theory? Maybe, but I find it easier on my sanity than thinking they actually believe that crap.
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So...midnight sun. (http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/midnightsun.html) The lame 'and you'll never see the rest of it ever again because i'm put out waah' seems incredibly immature. It is rumored that Midnight Sun itself is a piece of work that Meyer wrote because the characterization of Edward is so bad that Robert Pattinson couldn't figure out his motivations well enough to act him in the upcoming movie. The way she handled its leakage makes it seem like she's trying to punish someone, but to her own admission, the leak wasn't even malicious. The writing isn't anywhere near rewarding, as she writes Edward not like the supposedly magnanimous, selfless, wise centuagenarian that she's previously described him as being, but a petulant near-adult who is bored by being in high school. Is that aspect ever explained? Why is a vampire in high school? Why does he bother?
The stories read like shameless wish fulfillment fantasy, a fact that becomes painfully clear in the fourth book, which concludes with 200 pages of every character remarking what a great vampire the already Mary Sueish character has become. She mentions basing the character on her own experiences, even the ridiculous manner in which Bella is hounded at her new school. If you decide to delve further into the crevices of this self indulgent website, you can find pictures of an event called 'Eclipse Prom,' which is... a prom, thrown for the release of Eclipse. There are 'lookalike contests' for the two main Garys, Jacob and Edward. In this picture, Meyer herself poses as Bella.
(http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/img/may11_22.jpg)
As they say in fandom, 'squick'worthy.
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Immature AND unprofessional. It's unfortunate that your baby got out before you were happy with it, but it happens. And this isn't like a locked diary getting published; this is something meant for publication. It would be like a director pulling a plug on a film because a badly cut bootleg was being sold in Hong Kong.
Articles I've read from ex-Scientologists who were not celebrities or high-ranking members have led me to believe it's not just a front. Or it is, but there are people who are gullible enough or hopeless enough to grasp at anything. Those people give away their fortunes to the cult, sign "billion year contracts" that bind them to working at the cult's centers for looong hours, lose their connections with their families, etc. Regular cult stuff. I read that once you reach OT III (the Xenu story) most people start to disbelieve but at that point you've already poured so much of your time and money into $ology that you feel compelled to stay. And also you get treated better once you reach that stage. But still not as good as a celebrity. But I have read that recruitment rates among regular folks are way down since that South Park episode, so yay! Of course Will Smith is now a $ologist, so boo to that. But now I guess I'm getting off track with this. One of my major college papers was on $ology so I'm always frothing at the mouth to talk about it.
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Religions can and do have a tendency to bleed into one's own works. Tuna Ketchup x hit the nail on the head. Imagist, you just interpreted it as an outright insult.
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That's because you phrased it as an insult. You could try leading with your well-reasoned arguments next time, so that other people don't have to fill them in for you.
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Man, I do not take things to be insulting that are not pretty blatantly insulting. I mean, I am a chill guy but even my immediate reaction was "WTF?"
Also, religion "bleeding" into works is a wholly separate thing from religion founding and defining works. The former can actually be pretty interesting. What Stephenie Meyer does is the latter, and it is not so much.
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I found the characters completely boring, the purple prose was done poorly (read william gibson for an example of how to do it right, very descriptive without being repetitive or boring, I hear H.P. Lovecraft did it well too, the excerpts I have seen are good, though I haven't read any of his stories in full), and the story was really bland, I got to the beach party the first night I was reading it and haven't picked up the book again. My female friends love the books, and my best friend has twilight bumper stickers on his laptop, which I taunt him about endlessly.
I do owe Stephanie Meyers something, though. She has at least convinced me that even people without any talent for writing whatsoever can get published, so I don't feel so worried about the quality of my own writing.
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I read the first two of those. A lot of my friends are giant fans of it.
Harry Potter level fans.
They aren't that great. They're cute, and entertaining at the time, but the writing sort of static and the plot is passable at best.
I'm also really, really tired of good vampires.
I mean, really.
God.
"Vegetarian Vampire" has really gotten old.
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You know what I want to see? A vampire novel with vampires that follow the rules of the vampires in Dracula. Sunlight is still their weakness, but that is just because they don't have their powers in the sun, and it is much easier to decapitate someone when they can't turn into a swarm of bats.
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My favourite vampire is in the Preacher comic book series, Cassidy was such a jerk.
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It's wasn't entirely his fault, he didn't know how to be a man.
Hellboy has some great vampires, mostly because of the cultural variations.
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I've had at least 4 people (all girls) come up to me and say "OMG Phill, you NEED to read Twilight." My response is always the same "Sorry, I read real books." When they try to say that Twilight is, in fact, a real book I say "Sorry, by real book I mean something that's actually read by people who read....stuff like Trainspotting, Breakfast of Champions, Hyperion, Grapes of Wrath."
We had a discussion about how Dean Koontz and Stephen King are like the hamburgers of the literary world...sometimes you'd rather chow down on a hamburger than a steak. Stuff like Twilight is the McDonald's of the literary world.
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It's wasn't entirely his fault, he didn't know how to be a man.
Which, in part made him an interesting vampire.
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You know what I want to see? A vampire novel with vampires that follow the rules of the vampires in Dracula.
Carpe Jugulum?
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I'm going to be reading it shortly. Just to get it over with.
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I've had at least 4 people (all girls) come up to me and say "OMG Phill, you NEED to read Twilight." My response is always the same "Sorry, I read real books." When they try to say that Twilight is, in fact, a real book I say "Sorry, by real book I mean something that's actually read by people who read....stuff like Trainspotting, Breakfast of Champions, Hyperion, Grapes of Wrath."
We had a discussion about how Dean Koontz and Stephen King are like the hamburgers of the literary world...sometimes you'd rather chow down on a hamburger than a steak. Stuff like Twilight is the McDonald's of the literary world.
And Stephanie Meyer as the McDonalds executive who becomes flustered and points to the salad on the menu, "take this seriously as nutrition/literature"
Broken analogy but I'll bet there's a point buried in there (under grease and clumsy prose). Also, Trainspotting = Deep fried Mars Bar washed down with Irn-Bru, which is to say, an experience.
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You know what I want to see? A vampire novel with vampires that follow the rules of the vampires in Dracula.
Carpe Jugulum?
They were hurt by sunlight, weren't they? And then they became immune to just about everything, until they got weatherwaxed.
None of my... five friends, I think, that read twilight told me I had to read it, I think they know me better than that. I decided to read it so I would know what I was making fun of my friend for reading when I told him he was reading a girly book. I still need to give it back to him.
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You know what I want to see? A vampire novel with vampires that follow the rules of the vampires in Dracula. Sunlight is still their weakness, but that is just because they don't have their powers in the sun, and it is much easier to decapitate someone when they can't turn into a swarm of bats.
There are no official vampire rules. Bram Stoker did not invent the vampire, he was just one of the first to turn the vampire in a sophisticated figure instead of something out of a folk tale. I would rather have people writing about vampires use their own ideas and not copying someone else's.
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So? Ask someone to name a vampire out of the blue, and most will say dracula. That is what everyone thinks of. Sure, he made it up by doing research on all the folk tales, but his vampire is the iconic one. Lets face it, just about nobody makes up their own vampires anymore. Just about every one dies from a stake through the heart, being lit on fire (though nobody ever seems to use it) decapitation (same), sunlight (which I have heard came from Nosferatu), and has superhuman strength and speed. The necessity of a coffin is one of the less-agreed-upon ones. Meyers made up her own vampires, but made them into instant mar(t)y-sues, who would be just about impossible to kill, so you have to wonder why they feel it necessary to hide their being vampires, maybe they are allergic to having mallgoths squee at them?
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You should read Peeps by Scott Westerfeld if you want original vampires. It's really an interesting way of tackling the 'vampire' idea while making it sound fairly logical scientifically. Probably one of my favourite vampire stories, actually.
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I'll do that. I am at the library tomorrow, maybe they will have it. The main problem I see with having Dracula-ish vampires is the amount of power they have, it would be more difficult to use them as enemies when there are very limited circumstances for when you can kill him. I actually haven't read the original novel, I should, library will probably have it, did that include the having to get permission to enter a home?
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I really need to pull out my Anne Rice books and slip them into Han's bag while she's not looking so that she can love/hate them.
oh hey, hello pagebreak.
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I wish I could add my two cents, but I refuse to read these books on principle. I read Dracula and I've seen Nosferatu and I'm a huge fan of Buffy. Vampire literature and media is something I actually take interest in. I would hate to see it trivialized as some love-story bilge.
And, though I haven't read them, I will never believe that they are anything close to "the next Harry Potter." Though I understand that there is a massive fanbase - I am going to assume that it's a) mostly from English-speaking countries, b) mostly female and c) mostly under the age of 18.
Harry Potter has at least 60 authorized translations, including Latin and Ancient Greek. Its fanbase is so wide that even my Grandma has read it. Yeah well, if you knew her you'd understand. It spawned a cultural phenomenon. It's sad to say but it's partially responsible for the literacy of a generation. It's not exactly great prose, but it's a start.
And if I hear one more pre-teen girl say, "Edward Cullen, why so sullen?" I'm going to...I'd threaten something, but probably I will just become very annoyed.
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So? Ask someone to name a vampire out of the blue, and most will say dracula. That is what everyone thinks of. Sure, he made it up by doing research on all the folk tales, but his vampire is the iconic one. Lets face it, just about nobody makes up their own vampires anymore. Just about every one dies from a stake through the heart, being lit on fire (though nobody ever seems to use it) decapitation (same), sunlight (which I have heard came from Nosferatu), and has superhuman strength and speed. The necessity of a coffin is one of the less-agreed-upon ones. Meyers made up her own vampires, but made them into instant mar(t)y-sues, who would be just about impossible to kill, so you have to wonder why they feel it necessary to hide their being vampires, maybe they are allergic to having mallgoths squee at them?
Dracula may be the name everyone associates, but Dracula's definition is not the common one. Ask anyone on the streets what the sure fire way to kill a vampire is and they'll probably say sunlight. That's been the method in most mainstream literature concerning vampires in the last maybe forty years.
And the stake through the heart thing's actually been pretty little used the last few decades. It's considered bunk in the Vampire Chronicles and World of Darkness RPGs, which I'd say are probably the absolute biggest reference points in terms of sheer popularity and general knowledge (Especially considering WoD seems to take many of its defining aspects from Rice's books).
Being lit on fire's actually an incredibly common one in my experiences. In Rice's books, it was one of only two surefire ways to kill a vampire (With only two real exceptions to the rule) and even then you had to spread the ashes or there was the risk of them reforming.
The only real specific convention that seems to permeate all vampire literature is that they drink blood. Nothing else seems to carry over to absolutely everything.
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Meh, I've read the series. I think the reason it's now ten times more popular than Anne Rice ever was is probably because it's on a high school reading level and so it's pretty easy to surf through those books in a couple days. It has a good old fashioned angst to it that everyone loves.
I thought the whole sunlight turning the skin into rainbow brites was kind of interesting. (Versus the usual burned to cinders alternative)
And after reading a ton of Laurell K. Hamilton smut, it's a relief to find a vampire series that isn't about sex.
I'm not all about the constant martyr aspect that gets almost TOO annoying sometimes with the main characters. But all in all it wasn't terribly written. I think a lot of the disdain some people have for it might simply come from its overwhelming popularity.
To each his own.
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Haha. You're kidding right? This shit doesn't even touch the level of fervor over Anne Rice at her peak. People used to gobble her shit up ad nauseum. Twilight's never going to hit that and is probably hitting its peak after the first movie. There are people out there who base their lives on Anne Rice's books, Twilight fever will die out once the vapid teenagers adoring it right now graduate high school. Shit, does anyone remember when Spiderwick Chronicles and Eragon were supposed to be the second coming of Harry Potter? For that matter, does anyone even remember Spiderwick Chronichles and Eragon to begin with?
Also, I sincerely doubt the hate towards it is due to its popularity. It is, all in all, terribly written shit and that is why it's popular. It is just out and out bad with no real redeeming qualities, sophomoric to the core. All this is coming from a dude who reads about dudes in spandex beating each other up. Fucking Spider-Man is closer to quality literature than this dreck.
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And after reading a ton of Laurell K. Hamilton smut, it's a relief to find a vampire series that isn't about sex.
Are you sure you've read the entire series?
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So? Ask someone to name a vampire out of the blue, and most will say dracula. That is what everyone thinks of. Sure, he made it up by doing research on all the folk tales, but his vampire is the iconic one. Lets face it, just about nobody makes up their own vampires anymore. Just about every one dies from a stake through the heart, being lit on fire (though nobody ever seems to use it) decapitation (same), sunlight (which I have heard came from Nosferatu), and has superhuman strength and speed. The necessity of a coffin is one of the less-agreed-upon ones. Meyers made up her own vampires, but made them into instant mar(t)y-sues, who would be just about impossible to kill, so you have to wonder why they feel it necessary to hide their being vampires, maybe they are allergic to having mallgoths squee at them?
Dracula may be the name everyone associates, but Dracula's definition is not the common one. Ask anyone on the streets what the sure fire way to kill a vampire is and they'll probably say sunlight. That's been the method in most mainstream literature concerning vampires in the last maybe forty years.
Exactly. I would love to see a use of the old rules, I find the same old vampires quite boring.
I would say that stake through the heart has been quite popular in recent decades, guess what two TV shows I am thinking of.
I actually haven't played WoD (new or old), nor read the Anne Rice books, so anything in them, I am not really familiar with.
My problem is just that vampires have decayed in a century from being horrifically powerful beings that take great measures to even slow to mooks that you can kill by tapping them in the chest with a pencil.
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There be spoilers for the Vampire Chronicles here, read on at your peril if you plan to read them, but have not.
I've seen a completely opposite direction, personally. My first big dealing with Vampire books (Well, first REAL dealing. My actual first experience was Bunnicula) was the original Vampire Chronicles books. The way Rice portrayed them was that vampires weren't inherently evil, just kind of douche bags. They would start off as reluctant inductees into an eternal life where you have to kill people to survive and develop a complete detachment from their humanity if they didn't go insane and burn themselves to death after a couple hundred years due to boredom, loneliness and a complete antipathy towards everything. I found that rather interesting. It had its upsides, like power, skill and beauty, but you could never change or experience daylight.
Now it seems that there's no good reason someone wouldn't want to be a vampire. I mean, what the fuck is the point of it being a curse if you don't have to kill people when you feed and the only downside to going out in the daylight is that you're shiny? Even Rice started bullshitting this stuff when she gets to a point where her protagonist can go into sunlight and he never really has to feed. As much as I enjoyed the Queen of the Damned book, the series should've ended there cause she pretty much completely fucked it all up with that one.
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Yeah, honestly, other than Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I can't think of any vampire related fiction that has actually portrayed vampires as being less powerful than they were portrayed in Dracula. Vampires meddle behind the scenes in just about anything of import in the OWoD setting and as Obsession's pointed out, the Anne Rice novels feature obscenely powerful vampires.
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Well, there is also Blade (comics and movies), though I can't say I ever read the comics, it could be that there weren't vampire mooks in that. In WotC games, and settings where vampires aren't the focal point, they aren't hugely powerful, probably because it is difficult to have enemies that are that powerful without having them steal the show, kind of like having Christopher Lee in a large role in a movie.
Meyer's vampires are notably powerful, though, as I haven't read the books, I don't know what all their powers were, besides being mar(t)y sues.
I know that in the room next to me, there is the Queen of the Damned book, I think it is the one with an updated cover, made after the movie. Probably was my dad's, but I never bothered to read it. I hope you all will forgive me if I don't read it before continuing this discussion, I don't really want to, and I already have Dracula out from the library, as well as two William Gibson books I haven't finished yet.
And personally, I think that not being able to go about during a large portion of the day is a big weakness for vampires, Dracula didn't have to worry about becoming a mess on the carpet if a wind caught the curtains.
I think I may have made the wrong argument in this thread, as I think about it more, it isn't the power (though Dracula did have lots of powers, flavorful powers, probably due to the heavy influence of folklore), it is the complexity, he is powerful, but he has weaknesses too. Not obvious instant-death weaknesses, but things that can slow him down until they can stop him.
Since other people seem to know much more about modern vampire works, does anyone know where the rivalry between vampires and werewolves came from? I would think that the vampires could control the werewolves, as they can control wolves.
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White Wolf and the WoD did a lot to further the idea of a vampire-werewolf rivalry, although I wouldn't be surprised at all to find earlier examples. It's really rather simple: Vampire the Masquerade was the first WoD book published, and vampires needed something to fear in the game world. Werewolves made sense as a foil both thematically and as a physical threat, since having the vampires steamroll most everything in the setting but other vampires wouldn't make for much of game world. Plus, WoD vampires are decidedly urban schemers whereas werewolves are easily depicted as primal, back-to-nature types. Besides, how better to lead off a new venture than starting with two supernatural headliners? I know I seem to be bringing up White Wolf a lot here, but honestly, they're one of the biggest names out there in RPGs, and it's hard to overstate their influence amongst the '90s convention set that makes up the foundation of what we're talking about here.
Anyway, yeah, 3.X edition vampires weren't very good, but even AD&D had Ravenloft and Count Strahd. Throw in the sheer power of vampires in Shadowrun (Shadowrun vampires regenerated like fucking crazy prior to 4th edition) and the rise of White Wolf, and it's hard to argue that rpgs have reduced vamps to mook status.
As for Blade, those vampires are actually pretty damn strong, they just have the misfortune of existing in super hero universes or films dictated by action movie logic.
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Man, Bram Stoker didn't research no folk tales.
There are essentially four main original pop culture sources for vampires and their abilities, two of which barely anyone has ever read:
1) Varney the Vampyre, or, The Feast of Blood: 1840's penny dreadful. Fangs, regeneration, hypnosis, superhuman strength, puncture wounds on the neck, existential angst.
2) Carmilla: 1870's Gothic novel. Vampirism as a metaphor for sex, lesbian vampires, walking through walls, turning into mist, sleeping in coffins, transforming into beasts, anagrammatic pseudonyms.
The other two are Dracula and Nosferatu. I would say the original screen adaptation of Dracula is probably more important than the novel as a cultural touchstone. Like pretty much every other mythological creature, the rules of vampires are fairly fluid, and only really have to make sense in the context of each individual work of fiction. Vampires have ranged in power across various works of fiction from mere dangerous parasites to demi-gods whose powers rival that of Lovecraftian entities. Generally however the point of vampires is their rules: all vampires generally have some major, arbitrary weaknesses. The tipping factor is technology more than anything. Dracula would have been a mook if Van Helsing had been packing full-auto incendiaries and some white phosphorous grenades.
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So, I just finished Twilight yesterday.
...
That was pointless. It seemed that it was a 500 page set-up for the series you knew was coming after it from the first page. The whole thing could have been done in 150-200 pages and fused with another novel in the series if they hadn't stopped the story every three pages to talk about how beautiful Edward was.
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Fun story! My mother has mild OCD. Very mild, mind you; it bothers her a bit and occasionally interferes with her priorities, but she is for the most part highly functional without the benefit of medication. Anyway, one of her problems is that once she starts a book or television program, she feels bound to complete it, if not immediately, than at the absolute earliest possible convenience or else she finds herself obsessing about it constantly. She has many times commented upon this while watching something that she freely admits makes her rather unhappy, and I've even seen her "cheat" by fast forwarding through entire movies (but watching the whole time!) merely to satiate her anxieties somewhat. She started reading the Twilight series and gave up about a quarter of the way through the third book. She just couldn't do it.
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Man. That's bad. I'm much the same way (it's the only reason I continued reading Harry Potter, or watching Stargate. You have no idea what getting into Scrubs during finals did to me), although I'm not usually compelled to do everything so immediately, so it's good to know that if I ever find myself tricked into reading part of this, I'm not likely to be stuck reading all of it.
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And after reading a ton of Laurell K. Hamilton smut, it's a relief to find a vampire series that isn't about sex.
Are you sure you've read the entire series?
Dude, vampire-werewolf bestial foursomes vs. super angsty oh we finally had sex but I'm mormon and not going to go into details...
I think that's a pretty big difference.
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Most of the series was Bella wanting to go further and Edward not wanting to. Hell, one of her conditions about getting married was that she had to be allowed to have sex with him while still human. Even though this could possibly kill her.
It may not be explicit, but it was certainly there, especially after she was changed. It was just romanticised more than how it is portrayed in Hamilton's stuff (I am assuming, going by what I have heard about it). Saying that it's not about sex isn't accurate, even though it's not a huge part of the story
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I guess what I was trying to say was that with the Hamilton series, in the later editions, the sex scenes became so gratuitous and so constant that there wasn't a plot anymore. It was just one sex scene after another with no let up and the main protagonist ends up banging like 23 boys all the time, instead of being a cool vampire hunter like she was originally.
So yes, I know Twilight is about sex, but it's not only about it, non-stop with no room for any actual story.
Sorry if my wording was off, I was super hopped up on Xanax when I posted that the other day. This is why you should go to bed when you take that mess and not computer surf and pretend you know things. :-)
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I guess what I was trying to say was that with the Hamilton series, in the later editions, the sex scenes became so gratuitous and so constant that there wasn't a plot anymore.
So if there's no explicit sex, what's Stephenie Meyer's excuse for the lack of plot?
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Mormons don't believe in plot?
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What is wrong with you people. We already went over that bit of business.
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Mormons don't believe in plot?
Hush now, you're offending the Splatter Day Saint.
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Please can we not get started on that again? People have been pissy enough in here without having to go over this all again.
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Plus strictly speaking I believe there was a plot in the Book of Mormon, so I think that point is rendered invalid.
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Please tell me this isn't true
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4121/headtripzx2.jpg)
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Perhaps we can discuss the book? I saw today that one of my students is reading it. I teach eighth grade. Sounds like she's reading a book targeted at her age group.
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Yeah, I would say so, but it makes me sad, because there are really good books targeted at the same age group. The Discworld young adult books, Hitchhiker's guide, Tamora Pierce, all solid books for that age range. Hitchhikers might depend more on the person, my 8th grade humanities teacher suggested it to me, but I wasn't reading the same stuff as most 8th graders (in that I was actually reading voluntarily, and also that my sense of humor fit the book's). Tamora Pierce is popular with most girls I know in that age group, though. Maybe your student already read all of her books, I can hope that at least.
Now, what I remember of reading the book (up to the end of the beach party) is that aside from the descriptions of the vampires constantly being overdone is that she writes very descriptively, but doesn't do so quite as well as some authors do. The book was quite boring, an intentionally slow starter, I think, which I can understand. If I had come to the book without any preconceptions, I might not have been quite so bored, but I think the pace needed to be picked up a bit.
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I think Douglas Adams becomes more appropriate in high school than he is in middle school. However, a number of my students love Monty Python (as evidenced by their reaction to the Holy Grail shirt I wore to the community service event we did on Thursday), so maybe they'd love Adams.
I definitely agree about Terry Pratchett, though. I'm going to see what I can do about getting all of his books added to the library. There's only, what, three, maybe four dozen, right? I own 35, and I know I don't have them all. I'm also going to get Neil Gaiman added to the upper school library if I can.
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36 discworld books, including the young adult books. He also wrote Strata, Dark side of the sun, Nation (a young adult non discworld book), and I could have sworn there was some other one he wrote, saw it in the teen section of my library, I ought to be able to find what it is called. And of course, there is good omens, which is both his and Gaiman's.
edit: Only you can save mankind, that's it. First of a trilogy, apparently.
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I've had at least 4 people (all girls) come up to me and say "OMG Phill, you NEED to read Twilight." My response is always the same "Sorry, I read real books." When they try to say that Twilight is, in fact, a real book I say "Sorry, by real book I mean something that's actually read by people who read....stuff like Trainspotting, Breakfast of Champions, Hyperion, Grapes of Wrath."
We had a discussion about how Dean Koontz and Stephen King are like the hamburgers of the literary world...sometimes you'd rather chow down on a hamburger than a steak. Stuff like Twilight is the McDonald's of the literary world.
I agree, I love a good action packed book, but that doesn't mean it has to be overly derivative and poorly written trash.
My example of an action packed book: The Count of Monte Cristo
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Action-packed, how do you define that in regards to books? You mean things happen quickly, or lots of combat?
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Hmm... Hyperion. I was underwhelmed. Seemed like a very dark "Be careful what you wish for" fantasy novel that was pretending to be a sci-fi novel. I didn't much enjoy it.
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*cough* http://shinga.livejournal.com/478415.html *cough*
For anyone who hasn't read the first book (and those who have), here is a summary of what happens, chapter by chapter. It is hilariously accurate.
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She also did a couple funny comics about it.
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I've had at least 4 people (all girls) come up to me and say "OMG Phill, you NEED to read Twilight." My response is always the same "Sorry, I read real books." When they try to say that Twilight is, in fact, a real book I say "Sorry, by real book I mean something that's actually read by people who read....stuff like Trainspotting, Breakfast of Champions, Hyperion, Grapes of Wrath."
We had a discussion about how Dean Koontz and Stephen King are like the hamburgers of the literary world...sometimes you'd rather chow down on a hamburger than a steak. Stuff like Twilight is the McDonald's of the literary world.
I agree, I love a good action packed book, but that doesn't mean it has to be overly derivative and poorly written trash.
My example of an action packed book: The Count of Monte Cristo
I WOULD agree with you....except that's a bad example. The Count of Monte Cristo is my favourite book, easily. But coming in at like...1500 pages it's anything but action-packed. The Three Musketeers is action-packed....Monte Cristo...is carefully planned action.
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*cough* http://shinga.livejournal.com/478415.html *cough*
For anyone who hasn't read the first book (and those who have), here is a summary of what happens, chapter by chapter. It is hilariously accurate.
Oh God, Hannah this is perfect. I'll have to show it to another Hannah.
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*cough* http://shinga.livejournal.com/478415.html *cough*
For anyone who hasn't read the first book (and those who have), here is a summary of what happens, chapter by chapter. It is hilariously accurate.
Easily the most accurate summary ever.
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I think I'm going to make my friend read that.
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Cleolinda of the Movies in Fifteen Minutes fame has pretty much the best summary of the series over at: http://cleoland.pbwiki.com/Twilight#Bookdiscussionentries
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The Rupert Grint lost a bet entry made me laugh out loud.
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Pattinson is basically my new hero when it comes to him talking about the Twilight series. "What's your favourite of the books?" "The second one because I'm in it the least"
Oh, and...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/Ravenofthejade/Edwardcream.jpg)
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No wonder my friends who like the series were pissed at him being picked.
Meyers must not have known his attitude to the books before he was hired, either that or she didn't get a say in it.
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I read Cleolinda summaries of the books, and while they made me laugh so much, she also makes a number of good points about the books, especially in... one of them (I read them all in a row, so they all blended together) about how Bella actually is shown at times as 'strong', she just makes really stupid choices for seemingly easy decisions a lot. Also, Cleolinda made a point that we don't know anything about Bella's career aspirations at all, even at the start of Twilight where Edward isn't in the picture; she has bizarre priorities, which is probably one of the things that makes her character so annoying.
Growing Up Cullen (http://oxymoronassoc.livejournal.com/462027.html#cutid1) was such a hilarious take on the vampires (especially Edward as the 'problem child'), it made my day.
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Ravenjade's excerpt comes from Empire magazine. If anyone's interested, here's a link (http://twilightseriesnews.blogspot.com/2008/08/empire-magazine-does-twilight.html) to a Twilight blog with some scans. It is a fun article; it's about as condescending as you can imagine while still managing to maintain that frothy air of movie mag enthusiasm. Well, at least up until the Pattinson quote, anyway. I give it high marks.
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I honestly wouldn't surprised if the film is better than book.
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Resurrected for this:
(http://nonadventures.com/comics/2008-11-08-118.png)
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Oh thank god, for a minute I was terrified that there was going to be praise for the series in here.
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I read half a page of the Twilight series, skimmed through the next few chapters of the first book and then wiki'd the rest.
I'm going to the doctors to check if my brain haemorrhaged or my eyes worked up an inflammation, because I'm allergic to bullshit.
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I expect that some of my friends might want to drag me along to the movie when it comes out. On the bright side, it will doubtlessly be shorter due to lack of descriptions, unless they have a lot of narration with ridiculously extended shots where nothing happens a la blade runner. And they won't think to extract a promise that I won't laugh and make jokes about the movie.
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My mother teaches ninth grade and read a little bit of the Twilight series, since all of her students were.
I'm so glad I have parents with good taste.
I've read the first two.
My feelings are not so warm towards the series.
Anyway, she's banned me from seeing the movie. I'm not allowed. On pain of being grounded.
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I'm one of the people who slogged through the whole damned series, so I don't think I'm being too judgemental in my assessment of the books.
So, I think the author could be a decent writer. Her prose isn't terrible (when it's not interupting the maybe thirty pages of plot to remind us again that Edward Cullen is super-hot) and the concept of the story sounded interesting. That said, the book was absolute crap and as a reader, I honestly felt a little insulted by the author.
She basically handed me a hollowed out character (as Hannah pointed out, we never find anything out about her future ambitions or ideas), introduced her to an impossibly beautiful man that the readers knew from reading the damned book jacket is a vampire, so why did we spend three hundred pages not putting two and two together, and then her entire being is devoted completely to him. Seriously, for those of you who didn't make it to book two, she actually refers to herself as a satellite orbiting around her planet. He's filled with a deep inner loathing (even though he's beautiful! and smart! and good at everything!), and doesn't think she should really be with him, but is totally okay with coercing her into doing whatever his latest plan is by nibbling her ear or some shit, and she is completely okay with the fact that he's ridiculously jealous, controlling and possessive.
By book two, they've both established that if something were to happen to one of them, the other would kill themselves. Hurray! A positive message for all their young female readers!
Supposedly there's a love triangle, but no, there isn't. Even when he isn't there she doesn't do anything but pine for him, so did anybody honestly not think they would get together in the end?
It was honestly some of the laziest fucking writing I've ever processed. This can't even be one of those guilty pleasure reads for me.
Also, at the local (small! not even chain!) bookstore, there is a whole section of books dedicated to "supernatural romance". About ninety percent of these are vampire smut books. And none of these books gives vampires any weaknesses! This blows my mind! Why even bother making them a vampire if they don't HAVE to drink blood, stay out of the sunlight, or avoid holy relics? That's not a vampire, that's a demigod! Can somebody explain this to me? I don't really understand the appeal of wanting to get all up on a vampire anyway, but why even bother making it a vampire if not one single rule of being a vampire applies?
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Another advantage you missed that I imagine is in those vampire smut books (I don't read them): rigor mortis means never having to stop.
I do have to thank Meyers as a writer, all those things she got criticized for, I can keep an eye out for in my own stories, those few that apply.
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I didn't read most of the thread, so sorry if I'm repetitive. I've only read the first two, but plan on reading the last two just because, but I'm just waiting for the price to go down or Borders gives me a good coupon. Basically, they kind of remind me of The Da Vinci code. People are all hyped over a book that isn't written very well, but the story is compelling enough to suck people in. I can definitely see the charm wearing off over a short period of time, so much that they will not be popular in the future.
But still, at least these books aren't as bad as Eragon, etc. and the movie looks like it might be decent.
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But still, at least these books aren't as bad as Eragon, etc. and the movie looks like it might be decent.
But still, at least these books aren't as bad as Eragon
at least these books aren't bad
These books are at least 20x worse than Eragon. Though both are self insertion, at least Eragon attempted a plot rather than blatant wish fulfillment.
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Now personally I am not a fan of most books that fall under the category of pulp fiction and this really isn’t much different. Now I have read all but the last one and I really can’t think of anything redeeming about any of them, but that’s just because of my vendetta against harry potteresque writing styles.
or it may be that I was raised on real vampire novels such as Dracula, I am legend, and the vampire chronicles and it pisses me off to no end that there are a bunch of preteens running around squealing about how they want to have Edward Cullen’s babies, but at any rate at least they are better than the city of ashes books...
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Amper, yes, they are pretty bad, but I couldn't stand Eragon. It was like reading Star Wars meshed with LotR meshed with every other fantasy novel ever written. Vampire stuff I expect to be kind of repetitive, due to there only being so much you can say about vampires, but come on, fantasy novels should not have to be like other fantasy novels, let alone more than one. It's fantasy, make up something completely new and no one will question it.
But basically, I will probably read the books and resell them. They are a guilty "oh my god why am I reading this" sort. This is why I haven't gotten the last two and am reading something that is actually good. (The Glass Castle.)
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As a former Barnes & Noble's employee, I can state fairly confidently that only horrible, godawfully annoying people enjoy and see value in reading this utter shit.
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Well I enjoy reading them but I see no value in it. They are horrible, horrible books but something about them is just mesmerizing. Plus they are good when you just need to waste a few hours without using any real brain power.
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But Liz that is what we are for
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Yeah, I would (and probably would still) read them if I just wanted something trashy to waste some time but don't really want to think. And they were strangely compelling, I guess to see if the characters get any better by the end of the book?
Also, the movie looks pretty trashy as well, from what trailers I have seen. I personally think that some of the tricks they used to show things like the vampires' speed and power just look cheesy. If they did something simple like speeding up the shot or using CGI it would look more realistic than all the times where they are just on harnesses. You can tell they were just on harnesses, so it makes it look a bit amateurish.
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See, Hannah understands what I am saying. I guess you just do not get it, Dovey, and that it okay.
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Well I enjoy reading them but I see no value in it. They are horrible, horrible books but something about them is just mesmerizing. Plus they are good when you just need to waste a few hours without using any real brain power.
This.
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yay someone actually agrees with me!
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We all understand that you guys want sparkly vampire and/or werewolf babies. It's okay, really. You can admit it. We don't judge here. Yes we do.
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(The Glass Castle.)
by jeannette walls?
If so its an amazing book but a slightly difficult one to read not in terms of the laguage or anything but the fact that it is actually a memoir, however very good choice.
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come on, fantasy novels should not have to be like other fantasy novels, let alone more than one. It's fantasy, make up something completely new and no one will question it.
Oh come on. Do you read fantasy? Ordinary boy discovers secret destiny, masters incredible powers, makes selfless sacrifice to defeat nebulous manifestation of ultimate evil, is redeemed and generally becomes king of fucking everything, or at the very least lives happily ever after with some hot elf princess. Fantasy is one of the most clichéd genres out there. Even those works which break its clichés can only do so by referencing them.
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I know, the plot has been written a million times before, but he makes it enjoyable to read because he writes the characters well. Also really like the Eleniad, Malloreon (I know I misspelled that), and Tamuli. The young gods series wasn't so good, though.
Dazed, I know people that aren't annoying or horrible that read them, they don't tend to push people to read them, though. All of my youth group has read them, barring me (the only male), maybe they figure that as a straight (so far as they can tell) male, I wouldn't "get it".
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Belgariad and Malloreon, Elenium and Tamuli. I prefer the Elenium and Tamuli because Sparhawk is a right arse-kicker, but as for writing characters well, when you take into account that Polgara/Sephrenia/Dweia etc. is just his wife (and since he's now admitted she helped him write all of them, she's also a self-insertion) and that all his other characters are mirrored exactly across the various books and series and are huge stock fantasy cliches, (Ulath/Barak, the viking. Talen/Silk, the wily thief who is actually a prince, Kring/Hettar honourable horse-riding barbarians, etc. etc. etc.)
And I like Eddings. He can write prose and dialogue and at least he makes some pretense at originality and cohesiveness. He's a million miles above Terry fucking Brooks.
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Yeah, sparhawk is pretty damn awesome. For some reason, I tend to like older heroes, the ones that probably should have retired by now, but haven't. Don't know why, but Vimes can't have hurt.
By writing the characters, I meant the dialogue, sorry.
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Eddings' stuff is extremely clichéd, but still relatively enjoyable. Well, except for the younger gods series, that was downright horrible.
Anyway, yes, my earlier comment about Twilight readers was obviously hyperbole. I know several perfectly tolerable people (my younger sister, for instance) who read the books. On the whole though, it seems like they're written on the intellectual level of pretentious, obnoxious, emo teenage girls; and they could not possibly be more annoying.
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Don't say that, tempting fate is a bad idea.
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I was under the assumption that the forum was in favour of Twilight, so based on your collective tastes and my all compassing ignorance of the subject, well and thinking that girl who was in Into The Wild is really hot, was definitely looking forward to this.
So was I just completely wrong? Or is this some hipster snobbery backlash Im too lazy to research and piss people off by calling out?
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I know, the plot has been written a million times before]
That's strucuralism for you, the only hope for orginiality is in expression which in itself is rather questionable.
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Cheshire, go check out the book from the library and decide yourself. Or you can read one of the parodies that are out there, they are funnier. Try one of the ones that was linked so far, those are the ones that I have read.
And Tom, could you clarify what you meant by that? I am confused easily.
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I was under the assumption that the forum was in favour of Twilight, so based on your collective tastes and my all compassing ignorance of the subject, well and thinking that girl who was in Into The Wild is really hot, was definitely looking forward to this.
So was I just completely wrong? Or is this some hipster snobbery backlash Im too lazy to research and piss people off by calling out?
It's not hipster backlash. The books are genuinely pretty bad. The first book ever so slowly creeps up to a climax which ends up taking place mostly "off screen" and is then glossed over in a short recap.
And then Mary Sue gets to go to the prom.
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I only found out about these books by doing my teaching prac at an all-girls school, where it would not be a stretch to say that every single girl was reading the last book when it came out. I was vaguely interested in investigating them, after avoiding Harry Potter for so long simply because "it was for kids," but this thread is encouraging me to stay the hell away.
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And Tom, could you clarify what you meant by that? I am confused easily.
Structuralism is basically a literary theory that there are only 8 original stories/narrative structures and as such every narrative apart from those are merely variations on a theme.
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Ah, thank you. That seems rather obvious to me, it seems like a basic exercise of categorization, you could make it less or more by finding subgroups or supergroups, seems like when you build the walls, you can make as many rooms as you feel like.
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I enjoyed reading these books, but I am by no means obsessed with them like so many girls seem to be! And they definitely went downhill after the first one. They aren't original, the main characters are just so perfect that when I'm reading I'm just waiting for them to have unsmoothed hair, or make a silly mistake, or not have sparkly skin... but it just doesn't happen. Even the characters with flaws are redeemed and made to look almost perfect. And if they do make mistakes they are just completely predictable and just slow down the outcome of the story rather than changing it.
But despite their flaws, I did start off by enjoying these books. For a lot of people they're enjoyable, but not good. It's the same with films (in general, not the Twilight ones), it doesn't have to be a good film for people to enjoy it. Things about them annoy me, but every time I start reading a series I want to keep reading just to find out what happens in the end, otherwise I feel like I'm missing out or giving up.
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So was I just completely wrong? Or is this some hipster snobbery backlash Im too lazy to research and piss people off by calling out?
I probably wouldn't get so outdone with these books if so many people hadn't told me that they were great, so in a way its popularity did lend a hand to my not liking them. They were overhyped.
I am a huge snob and I tend to think the world would be a better place if the people in it would come around to my way of thinking about most things, but these books are genuinely bad. It reads like fanfiction, what with the main character who thinks she's so plain and boring (but is secretly heart-wrenchingly beautiful) and the love interest who could've gotten with any number of ultra-hot vampire laydeez, but didn't because they weren't her.
There's a scene where he thinks she's dead and he's going to commit suicide and she saves him and he starts quoting Shakespeare. That's not a joke, that's what's actually in these books.
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Dude, people spontaneously quote Shakespeare at me all the time in real life.
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After being stopped commiting suicide? It was the context that threw me off, not the lines themselves.
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I only found out about these books by doing my teaching prac at an all-girls school, where it would not be a stretch to say that every single girl was reading the last book when it came out. I was vaguely interested in investigating them, after avoiding Harry Potter for so long simply because "it was for kids," but this thread is encouraging me to stay the hell away.
If you're going to teach, you should read these just so you can rightly call all the students retards with terrible taste in literature.
Seriously guys, this shit makes Goosebumps look like high quality classic literature.
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he starts quoting Shakespeare. That's not a joke, that's what's actually in these books.
OMG, leik he so totally quotes Shakespeare that is leik soooo romantic! :-D
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Well, this is probably going to be a bit of a tangent, but ah well. Does it horribly piss anyone else off when in movies/books/tv shows, one average person (i.e. not a poetry scholar) quotes some random piece of obscure poetry/prose, and the other average person immediately recognizes it?
It's like, "Wow! I thought I was the only one who was an unknown 18th century Russian poetry buff! This is such a significant moment of bonding and character development, I'm glad the author threw this in."
I was just reminded of this pet peeve by the Shakespeare quoting nonsense. Granted, Shakespeare is pretty much common knowledge now that high school english departments have pretty much made it the alpha and omega of literature. Still, it's ludicrous and annoying.
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Seriously guys, this shit makes Goosebumps look like high quality classic literature.
Ick, I never did figure out why kids loved Goosebumps so much, maybe its because they were such easy reads?
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Seriously guys, this shit makes Goosebumps look like high quality classic literature.
Ick, I never did figure out why kids loved Goosebumps so much, maybe its because they were such easy reads?
Dingdingding! We have a winner!
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But what about the one where the smelly aftershave repelled the poison ivy growth! And then it attracted the mosquitoes!
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I read a couple of them simply because my mother didn't want me reading them, so they had to be good. Then I got bored of them and went back to Animorphs.
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Oh, man, Animorphs. I followed that religulously in the 4th grade for the first 15 books, then when my parents refused to keep buying them for me, I stopped. Then I found the last book (51, I think) and read that, like 2 years after it was over. I somehow don't think I missed much in the other 36 books. I even watched all six episodes of the TV show (I'm pretty sure it was canceled afterwards).
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Yeah, that show was pretty crap in retrospect.
I think the last book was... 54, I read all but the second to last, one (I think 36), about the bermuda triangle that my mom refused to let me read, and I stopped reading the last one because I didn't like the way it was going.
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Yeah, man, that ending pissed me off. It was basically an epilogue after the second chapter. Come to think of it, there were a lot of arbitrary numbers used as plot devices (2 hours before being trapped in a form, 3(6?) days before Yeerks were starved to death. I'm not even going to get started on the names she came up with for aliens.
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At least she didn't use apostrophes in place of vowels like some writers f'l th'n'd t'd'
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Don't be hatin', man. The Old Ones will come after you.
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The old ones just ignore vowels completely, they don't feel the need to use apostrophes.
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Who are you talking about then? All I know are the Old Ones and the occasional old sailor character who is missing lots of teeth.
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I am actually not quite sure, maybe it's a dead unicorn trope type thing, I have never noticed it much at all, but then again, I'm not a critical reader, if I am entertained, I am fine with it.
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I only found out about these books by doing my teaching prac at an all-girls school, where it would not be a stretch to say that every single girl was reading the last book when it came out. I was vaguely interested in investigating them, after avoiding Harry Potter for so long simply because "it was for kids," but this thread is encouraging me to stay the hell away.
If you're going to teach, you should read these just so you can rightly call all the students retards with terrible taste in literature.
Seriously guys, this shit makes Goosebumps look like high quality classic literature.
I am actually strongly considering playing the "teacher with no knowledge of pop culture whatsoever" card in my first lesson and making an offhand comment about "Harry Twilight or whatever" but that might be ill-conceived
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Nah, just do what I do. If they bring up Twilight, say "It's no Harry Potter". When they press you for specifics, just use what you learned in this thread to cast mild disparagement. When they ask you why you don't read it, tell them that you'd rather light your head on fire and put it out with a sledgehammer. The image should distract them.
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Thirty seconds? We're talking about grades 7-9 here. They'll jump all over that window and then it'll take another two minutes to get the class to settle down.
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I work at HMV. Recently we've begun carrying books and clothing along with the regular assortment of music/movies/games.
We're selling the Twilight novels, shirts, and soundtrack. The brief interaction I've had with the people who buy Twilight-related merchandise makes me want to - what was it? Set my head on fire and put it out with a sledgehammer, isn't that what someone suggested? It's the older fans though, that really kill my faith in humanity. When scanning their purchases I say nothing, but give them my best You should know better than this face.
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Agreed, Allison. Sometimes I think of "Twilighters" or "Twifans" as people who have nothing better to fixate their fanaticism on. And there's plenty of legitimate criticism of the books (http://jezebel.com/5034213/breaking-dawn-what-to-expect-when-youre-expecting-a-vampire (http://jezebel.com/5034213/breaking-dawn-what-to-expect-when-youre-expecting-a-vampire)). Even if I remotely liked the books, I wouldn't want to be associated with the fandom (and any screaming girls at Comic Con Twilight panel... good fucking god. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4Vhs23Ol8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4Vhs23Ol8)).
I'm surprised all the Twilight buzz hasn't driven rational people to mass suicide, yet. I contemplate such thoughts when I'm not largely ignoring the existence of Twilight altogether.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4Vhs23Ol8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4Vhs23Ol8)).
HOLY CRAP
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Stephenie Meyer is a Mormon.
How many questions did I just answer then? C'mon gimme a figure.
I laughed for 5 minutes
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So, in the USA weekend today, the cover story was on twilight, and it said something along the lines of "The story behind this year's biggest book to film adaptation", and I was thinking that you probably actually could fit all of the actual story in that book within that 20 page section. Seriously, save the trees, edit twilight.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4Vhs23Ol8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4Vhs23Ol8)).
HOLY CRAP
Okay, so girls were going "uggrgh"... were they trying to emulate orgasms or something? Like, dubya tee eff, man.
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Nah, they were just screaming loud as hell. That hurt my ears.
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Have you ever seen the Grape Stomp lady? That's what it reminded me of.
If you haven't seen it, search "grape stomp" on youtube. You will thank me.
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Oh god that video is painfully hilarious. I cringe and laugh every time I watch it.
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"The story behind this year's biggest book to film adaptation since Half Blood Prince got bumped to 2009 and Prince Caspian came out early enough that people forgot about it."
Seriously, though. The producers on this one are lucky that the new Harry Potter got bumped back, or no one would even be talking about this garbage.
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I don't think Narnia has fangirls like Twilight does. It will likely be a better movie (which says something about how shit twilight is going to be), but I expect that it will have quite a bit of a following, among the fans that don't consider it an absolute butchering of the perfect source material, you know, pretty standard fandom arguments.
This just in: Robert Pattinson (the guy playing edward) says Stephanie Meyers is mad. http://vids.eonline.com/services/player/bcpid1396519019?bctid=1915367691 (Yes, I know, it opens a little tiny player in a full-screen tab, don't know how to change that).
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Actually, Rachel's bitching about it already.
"You realize there's no hope of you dragging me to see that shit, right?"
"Oh, I'm skipping it anyway because the guy who plays Edward is so hideously fuck ugly that I simply can't take it seriously."
"Yeah, because you were able to take this utter bullshit seriously beforehand. I hate you."
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My friends don't seem to like the look of him either, I think it is because they likely ignore what the description actually is and fill in their ideal looking person. I am not very well qualified to judge his looks, being a straight male, but I think he qualifies as handsome, just not as handsome as a 13-year-old girl's fantasy.
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I can generally judge when a dude is actually attractive. That dude is not it. He doesn't look bad in that interview, but they uglied him up something fierce for the promotional stuff. They should've cast Drick.
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Oh man. Roddy would make a very good Edward.
Also, for the record, I would totally do Robert Pattinson. No question.
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From what I've seen Robert Pattinson looks better in these than he did in Harry Potter. But then again I'm not sure what a 13 year old girl's fantasy is any more, I think their taste has all gone to pot if they don't find him quite yummy. My taste in guys hasn't always been the best though :|
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My roommates and I are going to see this movie together on opening night and we're going to see which one of us can scream "OMG IT'S EDWARD!" the most like a 14 year old girl (3 of us are male). I'm really excited for this movie and I've started to read the first book. It's really as bad as I thought it would be.
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I don't see how Robert Patternson is "hideously fuck ugly." Like Liz, I'd do him.
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I am not sure how anyone could find this
(http://filmonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/twilight1.jpg)
attractive.
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The girl on the left (it's sad I know it's Alice) has possibly one of the coolest dresses ever.
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I am going to venture a guess that her character is flighty, kind of out there and is referred to as a "free spirit" at least six times over the course of the book. I am also willing to bet that, at the onset of the book, she is unpopular, but is eventually accepted into the "cool kids that want to fuck vampires" clique.
Am I close?
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Not really, no. The unpopular thing is a bit right on though, because no one likes the Cullens, but she's one of the ones that grows on people.
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Man, that looks unsurprisingly similar to the posters for Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
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Not gonna lie, the dude doesn't look his best in any of the Twilight promotional images. But goddamn is he hot otherwise:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2339/2148882080_a2a2c07656.jpg?v=0)
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I am going to venture a guess that her character is flighty, kind of out there and is referred to as a "free spirit" at least six times over the course of the book. I am also willing to bet that, at the onset of the book, she is unpopular, but is eventually accepted into the "cool kids that want to fuck vampires" clique.
Am I close?
Not really. She's a vampire, and she has the ability to see the future.
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Google his image and you'll get lots of good photos of him! In the promo stuff I'm guessing they're trying to make him look dark, ill and moody since that's the stereotype of a vampire (kind of) and he is supposed to look ill and tired a lot of the time... of course, when he's not beautiful and dazzling the world with his sparkles.
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Jon, she is "pixie-like". I have been looking for terrible shitty Twilight fanfiction to see if I can find the worst one out there, and every single goddamn one uses "pixie" in their description of here. The book is no exception.
Again I say, the movie is going to be terrible. I am looking forward to going to it (and dragging Ben along) just so I can have a running commentary going about all the shit things in it. But It's not like I will be going as soon as it comes into theatres. I am not that stupid!
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You should. You should go early. You should sit up front and comment loudly and obnoxiously about how terrible it is.
I can't. I live in a small town and the odds would be very, very good one of my students would be there.
Every single girl I teach has read this book (with one exception). None of the boys have (with one exception; his mom got it for him and he hated it).
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Actually, I kind of really want to do this now. Get absolutely roaring drunk right after work and go to a like seven PM Friday night showing.
The trick is, though: do NOT sit up front. For one, the screen will give you a massive headache that close. No, you want the back. You know why that is? Your voice will carry better. Up front, you're yelling at a wall. In the back, everyone will hear everything you say.
This is how my friends and I handled Spider-Man 3 and Miami Vice.
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I may actually have to go back to the shitty movie theatre I used to work in, and see if I can get myself thrown out.
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From what I've seen Robert Pattinson looks better in these than he did in Harry Potter. But then again I'm not sure what a 13 year old girl's fantasy is any more, I think their taste has all gone to pot if they don't find him quite yummy. My taste in guys hasn't always been the best though :|
13 year old girls don't have taste in men. They have taste in prepubescent she-males with faces that feel akin to a baby's bottom.
Robert Pattinson has really stupid hair.
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The brief interaction I've had with the people who buy Twilight-related merchandise makes me want to - what was it? Set my head on fire and put it out with a sledgehammer, isn't that what someone suggested?
Now, now, let's not have any talk of self-inflicted wounds. That sort of treatment is much better reserved for the customers themselves.
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Jill, his hair reminds me vaguely of James Dean's hair.
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If James Dean was blind and did his own hair with stumps instead of hands and was also borderline mentally retarded and using way too much fucking mousse.
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Actually, I would say his use of mousse is less obvious than James Dean's (though they might not have used mousse then), maybe I have just seen bad pictures.
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His hair is bad but that is cured easily by a pair of scissors.
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I really don't think either of the lead actors are very attractive.
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They should've gotten a Stephenie Meyer lookalike to play Bella, just to really drive the point home.
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Guys stop making fun of RPattz. (http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/29634263.html)
Seems like he's at least got a little bit of sense.
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I like him. His interviews have provided me with much entertainment. He's just in it for the money and to stay busy, god bless 'im.
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I've been reading some of the replies to this poll, some of them are serious, but for the most part, they are funny, some extremely so. I get so much more enjoyment out of a few minutes of stuff like that than I got out of the first third of twilight, before I got bored.
http://blogs.usaweekend.com/whos_news/2008/11/tell-us-whats-b.html
Twilight can't catch me if I'm on fire. FACT.
Posted by: Dan McNinja | Nov 19, 2008 3:51:40 PM | Flag as abusive
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I haven't decided which is my favorite post yet.
It's either this one:
"TWILIGHT!!!!!!! ssooooooo much better! idk wat u guys see in harry potter and his scar, there r wayyyyy 2 many books in that series. Twilight is more of a fun romance read. you can really get into it! Adults and teens love this series, as for Harry Potter is very hard to read, 2 many big words, and too mystical!"
Posted by: Vics | Nov 19, 2008 8:50:55 PM |
Or this one:
"It wasn't an iceberg, it was a heap of sparkling white vampire carcasses."
Posted by: Titanic | Nov 19, 2008 10:41:19 PM |
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Some of the pro-twilight posts have to be by trolls, they just have to. Too over the top even for... at least, that is what I have to think to be able to sleep at night.
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More Twilight art
(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/1478/twilightjacobnl1.jpg)
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Aaah, Chris Hansen. I wonder if he knows how popular he is on the internet?
There are a lot of comments on the article, must have gone through a thousand by now. Oh well, worse things to do with a sick day. And I just found someone that did an Inigo Montoya one before I did, dammit.
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"Scar used to be a great brother. Then he read Twilight, and I got trampled to death.
Posted by: Mufasa | Nov 20, 2008 1:21:32 AM | Flag as abusive"
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You made me read Twilight. Prepare to die.
Posted by: Inigo Montoya | Nov 19, 2008 11:48:26 PM | Flag as abusive"
Man, this is awesome.
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Yeah, that second one was me. There are some damn hilarious ones, and conversations carried out. I think they must have had thousands and thousands of replies by now, I haven't even gotten through half of them.
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Yeah, I'm really really hoping that some of those pro Twilight ones are just piss takes! I don't get how people can get so worked up about a book and a movie. So what if not everyone likes it? Big whoop, they just won't read it. Was there this much craziness about Potter? Some of those replies just made me cringe, but they're so funny! I just can't seem to stop reading them!
When all of you are begging to read the number one sensation or see the movie that sells the most tickets... me and my fellow Twilighters won't let you, you can stick with Harry Potter.
- That's just silly. For so many reasons. Silly silly silly.
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You see the person that said that Edward didn't kill Bella immediately, and how that was admirable (well, I assume, it was poorly-written, could have said he should have killed her)? I was so tempted to reply with something witty that slips my mind now, about how I can kill someone as soon as I meet them, easy, and that not killing them would be slightly more difficult. Like I said, I can't remember WTF it was going to be, but it would have sounded better than what I wrote.
Another person said that every student should be forced to read twilight, it was an old one though. Glad I don't go to highschool anymore, I am not happy about the lack of community at college (maybe I'm just not looking for it), but at least we are free of people blabbing about Twilight.
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I'm sure whatever your reply was going to be, it would have been great ;)
Seriously, it is getting hard to read some of them, the grammar and spelling is just appalling. Some of them are simply mistakes, but some make me think that whoever wrote them never actually learnt to read.
We had to read Harry Potter (the first one) in our school when we were 11, but I'd already read it. At the time I thought it was a fantastic thing, and I guess it was good for encouraging those who didn't like to read to read, but Twilight should probably be kept out of schools if it makes people go this crazy!!
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I saw the movie!
My friend that likes the books wanted to go and it was her birthday, so we went.
I'm dying. That was the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've seen since Urban Ninjas. Let me give you the run down:
Monotone narration. Clunky and clumsily written dialogue. Edward looking like he's in the throws of deepest constipation when he's supposed to be resisting Bella. Flat, white pancake makeup that they didn't even blend onto the character's necks (seriously, it looks like they just tipped them facefirst into flower). Terrible special effects. Vampires striking poses like the Jets about to fight the Sharks whenever they're supposed to look menacing. A lame, anticlimactic villain/hero showdown. And a slow dance where we swear to be together always at prom.
Even my friend (who enjoyed the books) said that it was something that probably shouldn't have been made.
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Huh, I've heard that it was better than the book. Then again, that doesn't take much doing.
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Vampire stories have been ruined for me ever since I was in a fantasy writing group and had to read a middle-aged man's epic novel about a polyamorous bisexual vampiress. No thank you, ma'am!
I'm just throwing a guess out, but did Samuel R. Delaney have something to do with this?
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Huh, I've heard that it was better than the book. Then again, that doesn't take much doing.
Nope. The book was bad, but the movie was just embarassing for everyone involved (including me, for paying for mine and Katie's tickets).
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I saw the movie today. It was a...I think the phrase I am looking for is "an abomination."
It was fun to see it with my best friend and unabashedly mock the entire thing. I just don't understand how this became such a sensation. After the film I unwillingly began the sarcastic slow-clap. It just happened; I had no other way to express just how wonderful and amaaaaaaazing and even sparkly it was. And then...people actually applauded. I was horrified.
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We already know that as a general rule the only thing that comes from shit is more shit. =P
I think even some of the hardcore fans weren't expecting it to be very good.
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Rachel saw it Saturday and said it was absolutely terrible.
I feel validated.
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So I am not the only one who thought Edward looked constipated? Hurrah! And yes, the key phrase is "unintentionally hilarious"My lady tells me it's because I haven't read the books.
Meh, we'll see! Or not.
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You shouldn't need a book in order to avoid laughing at someone's acting.
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Holy shit, those comments are hilarious. I especially liked this one, since Trainspotting was just on tv the other night.
"Choose Twilight. Choose a blog. Choose a screen name. Choose Edward. Choose Jacob. Choose YouTube, no common sense, and public humiliation. Choose quote tattoos. Choose creepy stalking. Choose no friends. Choose prom dresses and matching sparkles. Choose Hot Topic and wondering who the fuck punched you on Sunday morning. Choose sitting on your couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing MTV vids, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable theater, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up actors you begged to bite you. Choose your future. Choose Twilight."
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That is DELICIOUS.
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They should have intentionally covered the Edward in glitter gloss and reflective disco panels.
After all, what's a shallow Twilight character without inexplicable sparkling? =D
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'Kay, game time!
Twilight is to literature as ______ is to ________.
Fill in the blanks! :-o
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Twilight is to literature as AIDS is to one's dating prospects.
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Twilight is to literature as Street Fighter is to movies.
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Twilight is to literature as vomit is to a classy dinner.
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Twilight is to literature as Reaganomics is to economic prosperity for all.
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Twilight is to literature as Katie Perry is to music.
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Twilight is to literature as KISS are to rock.
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So, Edward has an exceptionally long tongue? No wonder the ladies love him.
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No, man, I'm telling you, it's the rigor mortis.
Twilight is to literature as "your mom" jokes are to high comedy.
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So, Edward has an exceptionally long tongue? No wonder the ladies love him.
But all his guitar solos are generic, and all his riffs sound better when another band is covering them.
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Twilight is to literature as Lunchables are to a midday meal.
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Twilight is to literature as grape kool-aid is to fine wine.
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Twilight is to literature as The Godfather Part 3 is to the Godfather Part 2.
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That's not an analogy, try again.
Twilight is to literature as William II is to German rulers.
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Twilight is to literature as parkas are to sailboats.
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Twilight is to literature as grape kool-aid is to fine wine.
Sweeter and newer?
You know... that could actually be accurate. 'cept it is more like they spilled most of the flavoring, so tried to make up for it with a couple extra cups of sugar, and it ended up being syrupy and bland.
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So Twilight is to literature as high fructose corn syrup is to strawberries.
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Hey guys the movie is up on Megavideo and it is goddamn hilarious. Seriously. I have been laughing so much.
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=1WQKPIGM
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Wow, that got boring fast.
Like, I turned it off after the first two minutes. Any movie worth watching will catch my attention somehow in that period of time.
This had a vague and thin monologue over some footage of a deer running through the woods, and a bit with a car driving on a bridge, and a girl acting like moving away from home was what drove her to do heroin or something.
Fuck this movie.
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This looks like some parts will be funny at least.
For some reason, the girl playing Bella reminds me of Eliza Dushku (faith in buffy and angel), just the voice.
edit: Yes, it is funny. The acting is a mix of horrible and people failing to hide how they hate this script so damn much.
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I really didn't like Jacob's actor at all. Only a few of the actors actually fit with the books descriptions really well. Alice was spot on, and Bella was pretty damn close.
Carlisle was just hot. And thats all that matters. Lol.
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The actor playing Carlisle seemed to get a style that reminded me of a less malevolent Dracula, very charismatic, seems like he is a decent actor.
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Yeah, I think Peter Facinelli is a decent actor, he's been in a few other things. Most of the actors had this look on their face most of the time, a 'wtf is my facial expression supposed to be' look.
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I thought most of the vampires looked goofy with the puffy nylon-look hair and powdery white makeup. However, in real life they are mostly pretty effing attractive. Rosalie in particular looks amazingly good with her brunette hair.
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So, I watched it online just now, and out of the whole movie the Cullens (apart from Edward, I guess) seemed the most interesting of the lot. I would watch a movie about them (man, a version of Growing Up Cullen would be awesome) rather than more Twilight movies; especially seeing as the next movie (if there is one) will be all about Bella and Jacob and the sexual tension that ensues. Thankfully the quality of the video wasn't all that good, so I couldn't see how terribly awful the makeup and hair was; but there were still times where it was obvious how shithouse it was.
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Some of it looked good, some looked bad. I think that it is likely that some days the makeup people half-assed it, being tired of having to do it every damn day.
Finished watching it, had to open another tab of it when I watched 72 minutes, some of it was hilariously bad, some was actually pretty good, I'm ashamed to say.
A movie version of Growing Up Cullen would be so awesome. I would have to go on opening day, to see all the fangirls watch it.
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Yeah I watched it online last night. I think Bella's voice was the most monotonous thing I have ever heard. If I hadn't read the books, I would have been very surprised when she freaked out in the hospital and said he had to stay, because she was so lifeless and indifferent-seeming through the whole movie.
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It hurt. It was funny, yet kind of painful to watch.
They really took the "show, don't tell" adage to heart. The biology lab scene was a little more than overwrought.
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Heh.
Hehehehehe.
HHahaahHAAHhahAHahAHaaaaaaaaaaghghdsgnkdflk.
Sweet merciful god strike me blind and deaf now.
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I thought Carlisle was actually kind of ugly in the film, not at all how I pictured him when I was reading the book. Jasper was off too, I think it was just his hair. But Mike was perfect. Absolutely perfect.
I still have to watch the rest of it, though. Hmmpf.
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What, the 72 minute thing? I cheated, opened up a new tab of it and started it from the 1 hour 12 minute mark. I was confused when it first popped up, because I had seen other stuff on there more than 72 minutes a day, but it wasn't one tab going all at once.
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Yeah, well I have to let it load again. Which is not going to happen now.
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i like twilight.
that's all there is to it ahah.
but i am a teenage girl in highschool who wishes to find a guy like edward...i mean, who doesn't want a tall guy with pretty hair and eyes, strong muscular body and as impossible to get as a fictional character could get?
make fun of me all ya want i already know i'm a nerd. =p
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There's a difference between being a nerd and having awful, silly taste. Still, each to their own.
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but i am a teenage girl in highschool who wishes to find a guy like edward...
I know I sure want an overprotective guy who won't let me do anything in case I DIE, who is constantly checking up on me and who sneaks into my house to watch me sleep! Sounds perfect to me!
Actually, that was something in the movie that was a bit more obvious than in the books. The whole "I sneak in here and watch you sleep and have been doing so for months before you knew about it" seemed much more unnerving (creepy? scary?) than it was in the book. I guess actually having the words said aloud rather than just one thing in a book of a lot of creepy things made it more noticeable.
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I dunno, I thought it was pretty comically creepshow in both versions.
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No, Jimmy, I too want a 100+ year old person who consistently tells me he wants to murder me and drink my bodily fluids. Additionally, he must be into me because he likes the way I smell. Also, I require that we both know what Debussy and Claire de Lune are. I will love him because he is beautiful and I will absolutely break apart if he ever leaves. He must cut my brakes if I ever want to see other boys, and he must absolutely disregard my feelings in all matters because he knows best. I want my very own Edward Cullen, because of his crooked smile and his beautiful topaz eyes and most of all because he does not exist.
WHEN I PUT IT THAT WAY, WHO DOESN'T
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i like twilight.
that's all there is to it ahah.
but i am a teenage girl in highschool who wishes to find a guy like edward...i mean, who doesn't want a tall guy with pretty hair and eyes, strong muscular body and as impossible to get as a fictional character could get?
make fun of me all ya want i already know i'm a nerd. =p
None of this makes much sense to me. Could you go into more detail? Why would we make fun of you for being a nerd? The people I know who like the books are as far away from nerdy as one could get.
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really freaking creepy
There have been times when I looked at a girl and my stomach has growled. I have never put these two random occurrences together before.
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None of this makes much sense to me. Could you go into more detail? Why would we make fun of you for being a nerd? The people I know who like the books are as far away from nerdy as one could get.
haha, don't worry about it =p
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Yeah, well I have to let it load again. Which is not going to happen now.
You can have it load from a certain point, rather than from the beginning, or did you mean that you had to wait for it to buffer, it was loading slower than playing?
My friend thought the a few months bit was intended to be funny, I found it pretty creepy.
I was surprised that they didn't have Charlie continue cleaning his shotgun as he was talking to Edward, seemed like a perfect set-up for it.
The use of the word nerd for someone that likes the book a lot seems to be popular, my friend describes himself as a nerd for liking them so much. He is a nerd, of course, he works on his own computer, plays video games, and plans for the zombie apocalypse, but twilight has nothing to do with that.
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haha, don't worry about it =p
QUE
:-D
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No, Jimmy, I too want a 100+ year old person who consistently tells me he wants to murder me and drink my bodily fluids. Additionally, he must be into me because he likes the way I smell. Also, I require that we both know what Debussy and Claire de Lune are. I will love him because he is beautiful and I will absolutely break apart if he ever leaves. He must cut my brakes if I ever want to see other boys, and he must absolutely disregard my feelings in all matters because he knows best. I want my very own Edward Cullen, because of his crooked smile and his beautiful topaz eyes and most of all because he does not exist.
WHEN I PUT IT THAT WAY, WHO DOESN'T
Taylor, I would cut your breaks so hard. So hard.
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More interesting links!
TV Tropes page about Twilight (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Twilight)
A count of various elements in the book (http://otahyoni.livejournal.com/130432.html), which should give you a feel for exactly how numerous its flaws are.
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Twilight itself doesn't really seem to be worth reading, but in the wake of its runaway success (which I called, because I am prescient) there have been some neat essays written about it. A lot of evaluation has been done on the decidedly anti-feminist nature of the book and of romance literature in general, just as there's been a lot of discussion of it here on the forums. Bella is a vapid and uninteresting character because that lack of personality provides a void for the reader to insert his/herself into. Salon has a good one (http://www.salon.com/books/review/2008/07/30/Twilight/index.html), I think the writer talks about how if pornography is a product of the male's basest desires then romance lit is a product of the female's, or something to that effect. It's probably an old theory I just haven't been exposed to for whatever reason, but it's interesting to think about. I suppose it could be distressing to certain people, but... I don't know, most people have weird fantasies, it's just that usually those fantasies aren't flaunted publicly in such an overblown way as you'd see at any of these Hot Topic visits. Man... I think it's been said before, but the girls aren't even there for the actor, they're there for the character he plays, which is just a little bit... touched.
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i like twilight.
that's all there is to it ahah.
but i am a teenage girl in highschool who wishes to find a guy like edward...i mean, who doesn't want a tall guy with pretty hair and eyes, strong muscular body and as impossible to get as a fictional character could get?
make fun of me all ya want i already know i'm a nerd. =p
But he is also incredibly creepy and possessive. Doesn't this bother you a little?
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...who doesn't want a tall guy with pretty hair and eyes, strong muscular body and as impossible to get as a fictional character could get?
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And then make him dead! Pale and cold is such a turn on.
...What's that word again? Nec-- Necra-- Necrophilia, that's the one.
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I would not turn to narcolepsy just so I could get a good looking tall guy. I have standards. Being alive is one of them.
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Don't be vitalist.
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I would not turn to necrophilia just so I could get a good looking tall guy. I have standards. Being alive is one of them.
Fixed for you!
Unless you meant excessive daytime sleepiness.
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HAHAHA! Man. That is too good of a typo to edit. I totally meant death, not people who can't help falling asleep at random intervals.
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I did consider not mentioning it because the visual was so good!
Linds: "Ooo look at that hot, tall guy over there. I know what I need to do."
Linds: "Excuse me, but can I ask you a questi...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Tall, Hot guy: "I LOVE YOU!"
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I'm just going to come out and say what every single guy in this thread is thinkin':
Edward is really threatening to me, because I thought women wanted a dude with substance.
I can understand the attraction, but only to a certain extent. For instance, Bella is apparently hella hot. I'd bone her. But I would be the fuck out of there before she wakes up.
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QUE
:-D
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thanks to stephenie meyer i'll never find a man. =\
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I'm just going to come out and say what every single guy in this thread is thinkin':
Edward is really threatening to me, because I thought women wanted a dude with substance.
Actually, that never occurred to me. Then again, I'm just barely cute enough that my demeanor and general lack of substance is what usually submarines my relationships. In an odd way, that's way more depressing than being kind of bleh.
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But I would be the fuck out of there before she wakes up.
Dude that was creepy, not funny.
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thanks to stephenie meyer i'll never find a man. =\
Well if you're looking for the Edward Cullen factor, you can check cemetaries.
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Linds: "Ooo look at that hot, tall guy over there. I know what I need to do."
Linds: "Excuse me, but can I ask you a questi...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Tall, Hot guy: "I LOVE YOU!"
No wonder I have relationship issues. Guh.
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Dude that was creepy, not funny.
The actual implication is that I'd sleep with her consensually and bolt in the early hours of the morning.
So your reading of such an event really says more about you. :-D
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thanks to stephenie meyer i'll never find a man. =\
Everybody has a literary crush. Best thing for me was to remind myself that if I search for love between the covers of a book I will probably live a life lonlier than all the Bronte sisters combined and the only part of my death that is of any consequence to anyone is the smell of my corpse.
Is pleasant, the literary crush, but important to remember is also fictional.
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-sigh-
very true. i just compare every guy i meet to edward cullen all the time now, ahaha =p
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Dude that was creepy, not funny.
The actual implication is that I'd sleep with her consensually and bolt in the early hours of the morning.
So your reading of such an event really says more about you. :-D
I think it has to do with us having been talking about watching someone sleep, then you mention leaving before she wakes up. Context, you know.
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I'm pretty sure I don't have a literary crush.
Or, at least, no characters come to mind, at any rate.
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I'd totally get with Gaiman's Death. She has a winning personality.
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Very much so. And the whole hot goth thing. I don't think I have a literary crush either, though.
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-sigh-
very true. i just compare every guy i meet to edward cullen all the time now, ahaha =p
lol that's disgusting. <__<
Do you rate them on the SPF rating of the sunscreen you have to wear around them, or just measure the straight-out lux readings? =P
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noo i just compare them like the way i see edward is perfect so i compare other guys to see if they're what i'd like to call my own personal edward.
............its weird.
i don't think anyone is gonna understand me.
i feel like i'm the only person who still likes twilight =\
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I think we understand what you are saying, we are just having fun.
If I were to have my own edward, I would want him to be less stalkery, less marty-stu-ish, and female. Oh yeah, and alive. Preferably not called edward, as well.
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Personally, whatever girl I'm dating, I'm just hoping her Edward isn't as cheesy as Edward. Seriously, I saw a lactose intolerant person die reading Twilight.
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...Because it's...creamy?
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Thank you oh so goddamn much for that mental image, Jimmy.
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I think we understand what you are saying, we are just having fun.
If I were to have my own edward, I would want him to be less stalkery, less marty-stu-ish, and female. Oh yeah, and alive. Preferably not called edward, as well.
well,....good! =D haha
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i feel like i'm the only person who still likes twilight =\
Sorry to be Busting your Balls, but I think one of the main reasons that we all rag on Twilight is because it's so undeservingly popular. I'm quite personally really shocked that it's gotten to the level of popularity that it has, and kind disappointed to boot.
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how could you ever have thought that it would never get this big?
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TEENAGE GIRLS LOVE VAMPIRES?
haha silly! =p
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There are a variety of things wrong with your post. I will address the most prevalent.
The 'vampires' in the series are hardly that. The Cullens are able to control their bloodlust, enter society, and they have no weaknesses. They even sparkle in the sunlight, effectively ruining the best metaphor I have seen for the fact that they are 'damned' creatures. Getting staked through the heart probably has minimal effect, but damned if I can remember that from the mythos of the book.
Additionally, the problem isn't just the demographic of teenage girls, but the incidence of Twimoms (http://twatfax.com/Twimom) across the nation, and even (somewhat inexplicably) my male bus driver.
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Vampires have always been more powerful as metaphors and symbols than as spooky creatures that scare people. Vampires have strong, virtually unmanageable desires and in many interpretations incite the same feelings in their victims. People can relate to longing, but they can't really relate to any of the rest of the vampire traits. Vampire weaknesses are often just vestigial plot devices, just as Edward's vampire status is a plot device to keep him and Bella from simply jumping eachother's bones. Really, the core of most teen oriented vampire fiction doesn't have all that much to do with vampire physiology or evil; rather, it's about wanting things so badly that you just don't know what to do with yourself any longer, a sentiment that many people in the throes of puberty can relate to. Twilight takes all that and puts it into a non-threatening package. I'm not really surprised at all.
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Alex C, you are by far my fav poster. Not just this topic but in general.
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Twilight takes all that and puts it into a non-threatening package. I'm not really surprised at all.
So regardless of its quality, anything that fulfills all of those qualities will sell like hotcakes? That doesn't seem quite right to me, especially because my main qualm with the series is not the inclusion of the (albeit neutered) vampire, but instead the quality and substance of its story.
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What it comes down to is purity. I consider the extreme, obsessive focus of the books to be a fatal flaw-- even moreso than the crappy writing. But for a young woman who is first dealing with lust, longing and the not unjustified fear of the potential consequences of acting on these desires, these books are like pure, unadulterated heroin. There is no filler here, no larger moral issues at play, just a young woman who wants what she wants and struggles to cope with that. These young women don't want to be told that their world view and desires are juvenile or shallow, they just want to feel safe and get the person they love. The issues the book alludes to are real but the end result boils down to pure, escapist fantasy-- there is no real loss, Edward comes through for Bella in the end and everyone walks away better for it. Basically, what I'm saying is that Stephanie Meyer was just brazen enough to think that such a narrow book could succeed and was rewarded for it. That Twimoms exist is just a simple reminder that there really isn't an expiration date on relating to and remembering youthful dreams, even if you don't perhaps approach things with that kind of single-minded intensity anymore.
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You also have to remember that these books are kind of written to appeal to the widest possible audience. Lowest common denominator kind of stuff yeah? Also the demographic is the 12 - 15 year old girl bracket where vampires are both mysterious and sexy (and to reiterate what Alex C was saying, completely harmless). Considering that most of the people on this forum are university aged and (reasonably intelligent), it's not surprising that not a lot of people here can appreciate the books.
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I'd like to challenge the notion that sexy vampires are somehow new and limited to young girls.
Go back to Bram Stoker's Dracula and you will find vampires rendered as hypersexualized beings. They're also indescribably evil, but sexy just the same.
I was not alone. The room was the same, unchanged in any way since I came into it. I could see along the floor, in the brilliant moonlight, my own footsteps marked where I had disturbed the long accumulation of dust. In the moonlight opposite me were three young women, ladies by their dress and manner. I thought at the time that I must be dreaming when I saw them, they threw no shadow on the floor. They came close to me, and looked at me for some time, and then whispered together. Two were dark, and had high aquiline noses, like the Count, and great dark, piercing eyes, that seemed to be almost red when contrasted with the pale yellow moon. The other was fair, as fair as can be, with great masses of golden hair and eyes like pale sapphires. I seemed somehow to know her face, and to know it in connection with some dreamy fear, but I could not recollect at the moment how or where. All three had brilliant white teeth that shone like pearls against the ruby of their voluptuous lips. There was something about them that made me uneasy, some longing and at the same time some deadly fear. I felt in my heart a wicked, burning desire that they would kiss me with those red lips. It is not good to note this down, lest some day it should meet Mina's eyes and cause her pain, but it is the truth. They whispered together, and then they all three laughed, such a silvery, musical laugh, but as hard as though the sound never could have come through the softness of human lips. It was like the intolerable, tingling sweetness of waterglasses when played on by a cunning hand. The fair girl shook her head coquettishly, and the other two urged her on.
One said, "Go on! You are first, and we shall follow. Yours is the right to begin."
The other added, "He is young and strong. There are kisses for us all."
I lay quiet, looking out from under my eyelashes in an agony of delightful anticipation. The fair girl advanced and bent over me till I could feel the movement of her breath upon me. Sweet it was in one sense, honey-sweet, and sent the same tingling through the nerves as her voice, but with a bitter underlying the sweet, a bitter offensiveness, as one smells in blood.
I was afraid to raise my eyelids, but looked out and saw perfectly under the lashes. The girl went on her knees, and bent over me, simply gloating. There was a deliberate voluptuousness which was both thrilling and repulsive, and as she arched her neck she actually licked her lips like an animal, till I could see in the moonlight the moisture shining on the scarlet lips and on the red tongue as it lapped the white sharp teeth. Lower and lower went her head as the lips went below the range of my mouth and chin and seemed to fasten on my throat. Then she paused, and I could hear the churning sound of her tongue as it licked her teeth and lips, and I could feel the hot breath on my neck. Then the skin of my throat began to tingle as one's flesh does when the hand that is to tickle it approaches nearer, nearer. I could feel the soft, shivering touch of the lips on the super sensitive skin of my throat, and the hard dents of two sharp teeth, just touching and pausing there. I closed my eyes in languorous ecstasy and waited, waited with beating heart.
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Well, yeah vampires have always been the repositorys of everything that "polite society" tries to push to the sidelines: lust, rage, hunger. Everything about them is inherently sexual, they only come out at night, they usually go for the neck, wrists and thighs, they're always intensely beautiful, dreamlike creatures. But they're just not scary anymore. The evil is gone and now they're either promiscuous bisexual fops (see Anne Rice's vampire books) or tortured souls, in a constant melancholic stupor, always bemoaning their eternal life and how they are doomed to loneliness or some shit as they date nubile young women (Twilight but also the Buffy/Angel relationship), being careful to never actually give in to temptation and make it anything more than a saccharine soaked melodrama. They also create a window for the "perfect guy". We've all been ripping on the Edward character for ages (because it's easy and fun) but consider that this is a dude who will always come through for you, will never hurt you or allow you to come to harm, doesn't look at another woman and totally wants to fuck you in ways that are probably illegal in certain states but he will totally never put any pressure on the girl because he doesn't want her to be cursed or something similar. This leaves it open for the female to be the active sexual agent, something obviously frowned upon in American society at the very least, and be constantly hounding him for sexy-times, advances which he, of course, rebuffs to protect the stupid, vapid and devoid of character girl. Next to that, it is probably pretty easy to overlook that he is overprotective, possessive, murderous and fiercely territorial.
Girl: Oh you're so brooding and melancholy/sparkly! Take me now!
Vampire Boy: No, I must not! For in doing so I would lose control and kill you or turn you into a vampire like me and stuff. It would be bad, trust me.
Girl: But I'm totally hot and shit. Seriously, would you look at these breasts? Totally hot. Let's bone.
Vampire Boy: No seriously we can't.
Girl: But why? I'm so hot!
Vampire Boy: I just told you. So no. Now I have to go be creepy and sad. Then later I'll watch you sleep and not tell you about it, then cut the brakes on your car for lending that guy your protractor in maths class.
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Yeah, I guess I should have stressed that vampire weaknesses should be considered vestigial, not the idea that vampires are evil. Whether a vampire turns to dust in sunlight or not doesn't hit me as very important, but the idea that Edward and his ilk are in no way actively evil does bother me a bit. In that sense, ampersandwitch is right when saying they're not "real" vampires, although I will forever argue that vampires since Dracula have always been more about sex than the critters themselves.
Also, one of my least favorite things about Twilight is how in decoupling vampires from evil they kind of decouple sexual desire from evil; after all, vampiric activity is basically a literary proxy for sex. Which, you know, wouldn't bother me that much except the books are still decidedly conservative. Edward is very firm about marriage before sex and worries about the affect of being a vampire on Bella's soul yet for the life of me there doesn't really seem to be any explanation for this aside from Stephanie Meyer being a Mormon and that vampirism is a proxy for sex.
Sorry about the sheer number of edits and awkward language. I am a very shitty writer.
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Even if you were a shitty writer (which you are not), it doesn't mean anything about your future because you could always write a completely two-dimensional novel about supernatural high school romance and have a huge cut of money at the end of the day.
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I wouldn't be able to do it. I'd end up inadvertantly referencing a writer less recent than Neil Gaiman, immediately alienating 3/4s of my potential audience.
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Dude, I'm a shitty writer - you're not a shitty writer. Also, I can't help but read Dracula as a text that intentionally subverts Victorian moral behavior concerning most aspects of sex
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Be careful, if you guys keep telling me I'm not a terrible writer, I just might write a shit-terrible vampire romance novel and dedicate it to you. Do you really want that on your heads?
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I wouldn't be able to do it. I'd end up inadvertantly referencing a writer less recent than Neil Gaiman, immediately alienating 3/4s of my potential audience.
No, you can reference classical writers, as long as they are well-known. The best part is you can completely miss the point of the story and your audience won't realize it.
I write as a hobby (hobby is a good word to use, as amateur implies I expect to be able to go professional), and I actually do have an idea for teen lit if my first book doesn't sell, I am dedicated to making it higher quality than Twilight, though, so it might not sell either.
And Alex, I think it would be very easy to have that on my conscience if it meant that when you got popular for writing spoon-fed shit, you promoted the other books people on the QC forums wrote (especially mine).
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Be careful, if you guys keep telling me I'm not a terrible writer, I just might write a shit-terrible vampire romance novel and dedicate it to you. Do you really want that on your heads?
Yeah, why not? Do your worst!
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Be careful, if you guys keep telling me I'm not a terrible writer, I just might write a shit-terrible vampire romance novel and dedicate it to you. Do you really want that on your heads?
Nobody actually called you a good writer.
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You're missing the point, dear sir. As your quote clearly shows, I never claimed that anyone called me a good writer. I am just threatening to prove once and for all that my writing actually is terribad.
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It was a preemptive offense against any potential self-delusion.
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Even if you were a shitty writer (which you are not), it doesn't mean anything about your future because you could always write a completely two-dimensional novel about supernatural high school romance and have a huge cut of money at the end of the day.
I can imagine it: "Cryptic Metaphor - An epic of post-pubescent schooling and pre-pubescent romance"
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Edward Cullen is going to smash my keyboard because he loves me too much to let me write negative things about his book.
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I experienced something odd today. Someone I know used to go along with me on mocking the book, and when I came back from break this weekend, I found her reading it on the bed, the second book, to be specific. I lightly chided her for reading it, and she told me she was bored and to cut her some slack. I asked her who she borrowed it from, and she gave me a strange look. She then looked back at her book and mumbled that she had bought it, and when I laughed, she gave me another strange look. She told me that it was no different from when I had gone to see the movie. I disagree in this regard, because I think that the purchase of a book indicates some measure of wanting to own it, which I find baffling.
It turns out that she now likes the series
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Romance novels are a common guilty pleasure!
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Guilty pleasures are usually acknowledged as such, rather than bitterly (and defensively) defended.
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Twilight is my guilty pleasure. I am not ashamed.
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Yeah how many dudes read The Sword of Truth novels. That shit is pulp romance with swords and magic.
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yay for alex c :]
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I was walking down the street yesterday and heard a conversation between a teenage boy and his father yelling out from a house like so:
"Dad, Twilight's out soon!"
"What?"
"Twilight's out soon, we should go see it!"
"What's it about?"
"Dunno, but it looks alright!"
Normally I chuckle to myself when I see/hear something funny, but I couldn't help but laugh uproariously as I walked to my car. People are stupid sometimes.
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Yeah how many dudes read The Sword of Truth novels. That shit is pulp romance with swords and magic.
Truuuuuuuuuth. I read these for a while and then somewhere along the way realised they were shit. I guess I actually realised they were shit about halfway along my reading of them, but felt invested enough in the series to continue for a bit longer, especially if they kept having epic magical battles n' shit.
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Yeah how many dudes read The Sword of Truth novels. That shit is pulp romance with swords and magic.
I read most of that series because an idiot friend recommended them highly. Those books are amazing, but not in a good way. Terry Goodkind is batshit insane. No, wait, Let me rephrase that: Terry Goodkind is a fucking maniac. The first two books? Not so good, but there is worse shitty fantasy out there. It's cliched as all hell, but he paces things OK, some gratuitous S&M action happens and the bad guy eats children's testicles, so at least you can't really accuse Goodkind of pretension.* Unfortunately, that all changes. Well, no wait, it's still creepy and sadistic, but as the series goes on, it becomes clearer and clearer that Goodkind actually IS pretentious and also has a great big ol' stiffy for Ayn Rand. I mean, shit, the first book in the series is named after the "Wizard's First Rule," which states that people are stupid and only believe what they're afraid to believe or want to believe. The hero of the series, Richard Rahl, dissolves the series equivalent of the UN and takes over for everyone's own good. You know, because only brilliant dictators can save the world since most people are too stupid and sheeplike to know what's good for them. Another book involves the sad tale of an industrious man who is undermined by his shrewish wife and daughter who insist that he uses his wealth to help poor people (who promptly just take advantage of him, of course). Later in the series, good ol' Richard orders his men to slaughter a crowd of pacifists because they won't fight for him.
Here's an excerpt:
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
I guess you can say that I'm not a fan.
*God, I love damning things with faint praise. I am patting myself on the back SO hard right now.
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Speaking of investment of time, somehow it was Robert Jordan who had the discourtesy to die before finishing The Wheel of Time (so I can validate those many hours reading and finally get some closure), yet Terry Goodkind gets a clean bill of health to keep penning dribble and now converting it into TV (http://www.metacritic.com/tv/shows/legendoftheseeker)
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Yeah, Sword of Truth started out... okay. Not great, but decent. Then it turned into Fountainhead With Swords And Magic. Somewhere around book 4 I think.
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i've never even heard of those books. =x
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They are Twilight for boys?
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oh? haha i'll look into them. i could use a book to read for spare time.
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Did you not read what was written about them?
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Why would she go and do a thing like that?
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The most screwed up thing about the Sword Of Truth series is that the romantic elements are sitting right alongside all the insanity I mentioned earlier. It's particularly offputting when you consider the magical dominatrixes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Truth_universe#Mord-Sith) that are trained via systematic torture and degradation in their youth.
Did I mention Terry Goodkind is fucking crazy? Because he is. If that still isn't coming through, please, for the love of god, read what I posted again earlier before spending any money. I realize I was treading upon some serious "TLDR" territory in the last post, but seriously, the man doesn't write anything close to a sterile li'l world like Meyer does.
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Man, he doesn't even write fantasy.
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Yeah, he really is. The Mord-Sith are one example. The bullshit wedding ceremony thing is another. Richard and Kahlan(?)'s relationship is half glurgy and half just mindfuck, and there are really obvious sexual fetish undertones throughout a lot of the writing. It's pretty amusing how closely he and Jordan's work mirror each other in that regard, although Jordan took a more wholesome approach to the same fem-dom kind of content.
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I'm not really sure they can be called undertones anymore when there's leather clad lesbians running around playfully teasing the protagonist by the 3rd or 4th book.
Actually, I should probably pull back from that statement a li'l bit and point out that at least with the lesbian mord-sith he never really goes into any sort of graphic detail. That said, it did seem sort of inexplicable and in light of how much women are objectified in the series in general, I couldn't help but suspect that he wasn't going anywhere with it that wasn't opportunistic. It turned out that he really just intended to cash in by making the situation into a tearjerker, but that hardly is enough to make me respect him any more as a writer.
BTW, can you guys tell I really get into reading and then deconstructing shitty books yet?
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BTW, can you guys tell I really get into reading and then deconstructing shitty books yet?
Sounds like you could get internet famous easily.
I had thought about looking into the Sword of Truth books, after Sohmer of LICD mentioned them, albeit in reference to series that he felt compelled to continue reading even when he didn't like the new stuff, I figured I would just read the older ones. Then I read the examples it has on TVtropes, and I am not touching those with an 11-foot pole.
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My guilty pleasure is reading comic books and WoW strategy guides on the toilet while listening to the Lost soundtrack.
I imagine that's at least slightly less embarrassing than if Twilight were my guilty pleasure.
Yet, still, I read this thread.
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There's nothing wrong with reading comics books.
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Did you not read what was written about them?
i did. if i'm going to talk about something i might as well know wtf is going on about it.
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What the hell is on the Lost soundtrack?
Does it just start with NEEEERRROOOOOWWWW, have some creepy piano music over and over, and then abruptly end with WHUMP?
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Yes, it's all one track. But it lasts for about seven hours.
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Actually, that's a pretty accurate summary. Except throw in frantic trumpets in between sappy creepy piano tracks and you've got it.
I have three seasons' worth of that on my iPod. It basically goes: WEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOAWWWWWWWWWWWWOAAASCREEEEEE *Run from monster track* *Something bad happens to Locke track* *Sad reflective track* *Run from monster track* *Someone died track* *Sad reflective track* *Hiking track* *Run from monster while something bad happens to Locke track* *Someone got killed by the monster track* *Locke is sad because someone got killed by the monster while hiking track* *WHUMP* *End credits*
And I would sooner admit to listening to this on my way into work this morning than admit to reading Twilight on my way into work this morning. Note, I actually DID listen to this on the ride in to work.
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Was wondering if anyone has seen the film or read the book "Let the right one in", friend of mine has seen the film and spoke of it in such glowing terms that I can't wait to see it myself, despite not being a fan of vampire-romances.
Also from what I've read apparently its one of those rare occasions where the film betters the book. And of course, an English language version is in the pipeline.
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Somebody started a thread about it a few days back.
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Yeah just spotted that and was about to come in here and edit my post but you beat me to it!
Damn... in my defense that thread didn't show up when I did a search for the film's title
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I think it is because nobody has mentioned the film's name, just linked to the site, which is the name with no spaces.
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& back to twilight......
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Why?
I was talking to a friend yesterday, noticed she was reading one of the books, and asked her how many times she had read it. She didn't know, but the conversation eventually came around to the whole watching her sleep bit, and she actually asked "What else was he going to do?" I suggested reading a book, and she said that it would take 20 every night (which I find absolutely ridiculous, even as marty-stus go), I guess I should have suggested whatever he did before meeting her. I would have said sort his stamp collection, but she wouldn't have got the joke.
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tell your friend to look up growing up cullen. what else was he going to do? scrapbook. knit. clean grout with a toothbrush. lots of things.
hey guys. i'm a bit late to this thread, but prepare to think less of me.
i have read the 4 books 4 or 5 times in the last 3 weeks. i have also seen the movie 3 times. i am unconditionally and irrevocably addicted to twilight. (i also just made myself vomit a little bit by saying that.) i make no excuses for my poor taste, i admit to my guilty pleasures.
i have to say though, these books are garbage and if i had a tween daughter i would be displeased if she was obsessed with them. i consider myself to be a reasonably intelligent woman, capable of separating fiction from nonfiction, and i am appalled by what the twilight saga advertises to people who may not be as reasonable as i am. bella and edward's relationship is not healthy. edward is not perfect and is not a good example to rate boys you know in real life against. vampires are not real and you will never be one. teenage pregnancy almost never ends with happy parents, a gorgeous baby and 7 babysitters. srsly people. fiction.
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Wasn't he sorting his stickers in that? Right after I clicked post last time, I decided that I should have said "Read Proust" instead.
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teenage pregnancy almost never ends with happy parents, a gorgeous baby and 7 babysitters.
But sometimes it does include that creepy older guy who wants to do your kid.
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You mean Tommy?
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I was mean today. I asked one of my students how she was enjoying Twilight. She said it was okay. Then she asked why I was asking. I mentioned that I'd heard it was absolutely horrible. Boy, did THAT get the girls in my class in an uproar!
One of them has only finished the first book and was desperately asking people not to say what happens in the second book.
I said, "Edward dies."
That's when they said I was mean.
Yeah. I'm mean. But it was hilarious.
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Out of curiosity, what grade do you teach? Know this - the positivity of my outlook on the future may hang in the balance of your answer.
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I would have been one of the girls in your class yelling at you for being a horrible person!
Edward can't die, unless he is ripped up and burned, did you say Jacob did it? Haha.
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I bought Twilight the other day because I really wanted to know what all the fuss was about, and there was a 100-strong waiting list at the library to borrow it. I finished it this morning and now I can honestly say that it was the biggest load of pointlessly fluffy bollocks I have read since the Da Vinci Code.
I mean, it was heinously slow to start, and I found myself just ploughing through it because my friend Kelsey was insisting to me "it gets better, just stick with it". Well. I'm still waiting for it to get better. The small amounts of action in the book were over with before they really started, and then it switched back to mopey, avoidy Edward, and I was nowhere near invested enough in the characters to care about the pages that were wasted rambling about the same defining features of the vampires.
I'm gonna let my mum and sister read it if they want, then I'm gonna donate it to the library because I know for sure I won't want to read it again.
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Donating it to the library only exacerbates the problem, Gemm. I'd recommend burning it, but that shows the book too much respect through the effort required. Shove the book in your attic and just forget you have it. That is the proper solution.
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Alternate ending! (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=fCRKWGeNzDI&feature=related)
But with this music. (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj5JSYiNrcc)
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Alternate ending! (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=fCRKWGeNzDI&feature=related)
But with this music. (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj5JSYiNrcc)
LOL!
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Great post! Quality insight!
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Donating it to the library only exacerbates the problem, Gemm. I'd recommend burning it, but that shows the book too much respect through the effort required. Shove the book in your attic and just forget you have it. That is the proper solution.
I know, I know, I can't bring myself to burn books again, I feel bad enough after the first and only one, but the problem with the attic is that I don't have one. I live in a flat.
Still, giving it to the library will make me feel better about buying it, because then I won't have entirely wasted my money. Gemm: Stocking YOUR Library's Shelves Since 1987.
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I think donating it to your library is a great idea.
Even if you think Twilight is a horrible book, aren't you at least happy that kids are reading???
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It might put them off reading!
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I know, I know, I can't bring myself to burn books again, I feel bad enough after the first and only one, but the problem with the attic is that I don't have one. I live in a flat.
Still, giving it to the library will make me feel better about buying it, because then I won't have entirely wasted my money. Gemm: Stocking YOUR Library's Shelves Since 1987.
Yeah, but you'll also be spreading the disease. Don't you have any wobbly chairs or uneven table legs you can prop with it?
Even if you think Twilight is a horrible book, aren't you at least happy that kids are reading???
I like kids reading and all, but I want kids to read decent literature. Shoveling crap like this on them is really not a step up from rotting their brain with bad TV.
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Some people see Twilight as "decent" literature. It's entertaining for them, let kids be kids....or kids wishing that they could fall in love with a vampire and then have him turn them into a vampire and they would live happily ever after with the perfect life forever.
Either way, let them eat cake.
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some people may find these books entertaining, but that doesn't make them quality literature.
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I like kids reading and all, but I want kids to read decent literature. Shoveling crap like this on them is really not a step up from rotting their brain with bad TV.
Maybe Twilight isn't great literature, but at least it's encouraging them to read. And if they start by read things like this then it's a step up. Maybe it'll encourage them to try other things, things which people do consider to be great literature. I know I've read some rubbishy books in my time, but reading them makes me want to find better books even more.
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People used the same reasoning to defend the Harry Potter series when (gasp) some people said it was not exactly the literary shit, and it turns out quite a lot of the people who decided, despite not normally reading books, to read Harry Potter, when finished with it resumed their illiterate ways.
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I have frankly always found the phrase "at least they're reading" to be completely ridiculous. Why don't we apply it to other areas of activity?
"Gossip Girl is a horrible show" "At least it gets kids watching TV"
"This derogatory music is horrible" "At least it gets kids memorizing things"
"Ralph Nader is running for president again" "At least it gets 3rd party candidates into the election"
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"OH FUCK GOD THERE ARE ZOMBIE CHILDREN EVERYWHERE AND THEY'RE KILLING EVERYTHING IN SIGHT!!!"
"At least they're getting some exercise."
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First of all, what "decent literature" exists for children?
Lewis Carroll. Roald Dhal. Beatrix Potter. C.S. Lewis. E.B. White. Shel Silverstein. Eoin Colfer. Louis Sachar.
Great post! Quality insight!
Wonderful quality is the best way to post fifteen times a day.
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Lewis Carroll? Man, I remember reading Alice in Wonderland when I was about 11 and it made no sense at all. I think it's got a lot of nonsensical stuff in it which can be hard for kids to grasp. I have noticed when reading books/watching movies that I had first seen when I was younger that a lot of the themes or concepts (hell, even obvious plot devices) that went straight over my head the first time were much more obvious now.
I agree with Jens, though. I used to read Babysitter's Club books, for Christ's sake. Thankfully my parents have a lot of books of differing levels, so when I finished the books I had I would trawl our bookshelves for something else. But I was about 10 then. Reading these books at 16-20 and saying "well at least they're reading" is a cop out, because those kids would have to be reading for school anyway. Even if they aren't reading for school (which is fair enough, school reading is generally not what you want to do) there are so many books out there that are probably the same level of difficulty as Twilight, but written much better.
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I say let people who want to be entertained by something be entertained by it. With the excepted of this topic, the only place where Twilight has been interjected into my life is in a couple posters on a wall and some commercials on TV. It doesn't affect me, live and let lie.
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That and I am so fucking sick and god damn tired of hearing about Edward Fucking Cullen aaargh slash yer fuckin' face prettyboy vampire asshole.
Jens you know I think you would make a good vampire.
Just sayin'.
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Out of curiosity, what grade do you teach? Know this - the positivity of my outlook on the future may hang in the balance of your answer.
8th grade. Oh, and 6th. But I don't think I could do that to 11 year olds. I'm more than happy to fuck with 13 year old girls. They need to grow up.
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I nothing else, this thread has given me grounds for a new sig quote:
I'm more than happy to fuck with 13 year old girls.
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All that it comes down to, is it doesn't matter what any of you think. The fact of the matter is, is no matter what you say, Stephenie Meyer is the one with the movie in production. Also, to say any literature that gets kids INTERESTED in reading is bad literature seems in bad taste.
If you want your kids reading something more intelligent, great, present it to them, but it IS ungrateful to spit in the faces if books like that got them into reading in the first place.
I guess what it all comes down to is that the majority of you are just ungrateful.
Pity.
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I get far too much of a kick out of an eighteen year old with such atrocious grammar and punctuation telling us reading this garbage is actually beneficial to people.
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All that it comes down to, is it doesn't matter what any of you think.
Which of course would need to apply as a sweeping rule meaning it doesn't matter what you think either. Therefore we should disregard your post as well.
I've never read the books, I've never seen the movie. I started reading Harry Potter, but by the time I got to the 3rd book, I said fuck this, I think I'll read The Hobbit again. There are books and there is literature. Books get kids interested in reading. Literature grabs the kids and keeps them reading.
Recently, I've been reading the Horus Heresy novels, they are literature because they give you the feeling that you want to turn the page and keep reading, the story doesn't get bogged down in little details (although for some people it feels that way). Also, people don't start reading them because there's a goddamn movie of it. If you make a movie of it of course more people will read it, because they saw the damn movie and they get pulled into the franchise.
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All that matters is what your mom thinks.
Bam.
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I think what it probably is is that we're such an "indie" forum and so we can't stand the thought of anything that is popular being good.
I didnt really notice it before but Peach's clear and succinct post has enlightened me to this stark reality.
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Who's richer than the Queen of England? J.K. Rowling.
Know why? She wrote a shitty CHILDRENS book. Are any of you richer than the Queen of England? Didn't think so.
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Generic Name, have you not read the post in the thread where we say all the things that are wrong with this? Where has "oh man, it's so popular; therefore it must be shit" come up?
I would have thought the fact that the characters are flat, the story ridiculously sluggish and the lack of plot would be more reasons why the forum in general (at least the posters in this thread) do not like the books.
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Who's richer than the Queen of England? J.K. Rowling.
Know why? She wrote a shitty CHILDRENS book. Are any of you richer than the Queen of England? Didn't think so.
So, what you're saying is that it's okay to exploit an entire generation with something terrible as long as it makes you money? That doesn't seem like the best thing for the youth of the world.
I mean, I don't want to be richer than the Queen of England, money doesn't bring happiness.
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It happens though, and it's been happening forever. Every kid wants the cool new thing. It's called a fad.
Examples; Pokemon, Slinkies, WoW, Harry Potter, NeoPets, etc, etc, etc.
And of course money doesn't bring happyiness, but a new BMW in the snap of my finger would make me pretty happy.
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I think what it probably is is that we're such an "indie" forum and so we can't stand the thought of anything that is popular being good.
I didnt really notice it before but Peach's clear and succinct post has enlightened me to this stark reality.
Fuck that sentiment. I'm not even going to begin ranting about how ridiculous of an idea that is.
Man, give me a month and I will produce a book on the same level as Twilight. Without having even read it. This book will be my wet dream, and the vampire will be a really tan hot chick instead of a pasty dude. And many middle school chess club members will jack off to this shit, and I will get a movie deal and cause an uproar when I cast Megan Fox as the lead instead of whoever the fuck else. And I will take my 100 million dollars and pay to have Stephanie Meyer clean my ass every time I take a shit.
That seemed a bit harsh. But it's off my chest, now.
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I would argue the same for WoW, considering it has over 10 million monthly subscribers.
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Twilight is in almost every country and in 22 different languages or something like that. It's world wide, you can't stop it until it fizzles out like everything else.
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And they have each fucked up generations equally.
35 year old dude that plays with pokemon cards. NOT COOL.
35 year old dude that plays WoW while living in his parent's basement. NOT COOL.
35 year old chick that has a hard-on for writing about harry and ron making out on the magical train to cuntville. NOT COOL.
35 year old dude that thinks vampires are real and can't secure a job outside of burger king. NOT COOL.
What I'm saying is that there are a lot more things these people could be doing that are actually progressive and help them out by giving real life skills.
My sister is one of those harry potter fan fic writers. She can't seem to hold a job to save her life. Ever since she started reading the stuff.
I THINK ITS RELATED.
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See guys I thought my post was ridiculous enough for it not to be taken seriously. Ah well.
But peach I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing at this point: Twilight and Harry Potter are to be appreciated because they made people richer than us? But they are also just a fad, so we should not be criticizing them because they will die out by themselves? Or am I misinterpreting you?
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I've always felt Fads were things like Beanie Babies or Tamagotchis, that still hold on to an existence because of a small amount of collectors and diehards.
You're right,Twilight's a fad, but you kinda picked bad examples of fads. I mean, we're not really lamenting the existence of WoW. Half the damn board plays WoW, and I think there's even a guild. I am just pissed at being led to believe that there were going to be vampires. There are clearly no vampires, just old people who age very well and like their burgers very rare.
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What I'm simply trying to say is that Twilight will fizzle out. I don't understand why people can't just let it be what it is for the moment. They have to get so upset and so angry that its catching on so fast, when at any given moment there are more than 3,000,000 people on WoW, yet it's not "stupid" or "not a real game" like they say the book is. It doesn't make sense to me.
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Man, what the fuck.
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We are amassing a futile attempt to expedite the process that involves
hitting people until they see the light showing them how objectively terrible their porn mag children's novel is.
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Peach despite what my last post may have told you we don't actually hate Twilight because of its popularity. But I think we should all put our disagreements aside because I cannot see Peach agreeing that Twilight is bad based on the many reasons but I cannot see anyone else agreeing with Peach and so this will go nowhere.
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I think its less of a matter of the book itself being popular. But more the fact that none of it was popular until it became a movie. Whereas with Harry Potter, the book itself was popular, and then the movies only cemented the popularity.
The same thing with WoW, it started with a pre-established fanbase through the Warcraft RTS games, also the fact that Blizzard has been making games forever. There is a fanbase already, they didn't create a new one by creating WoW. Just like Pokemon, at the same time, there were at least 3 other pokemon type shows/systems out there. It was just a matter of nintendo (a well known company) endorsing pokemon and making all of it hit at once. Games, cards, and television. They didn't have the cards out for years and then suddenly make a movie and everyone loved it. It was a gradual thing. Also, the original versions of a lot of this stuff is pretty fuckin hardcore and not as cartoony as the American version makes it seem.
What I'm saying here is that Twilight sucks because it wasn't a book that people read and then saw the movie. People heard about the movie, and then they read the books. And that's wrong. Like Tommy, I didn't even know what Twilight was until someone told me what it was about.
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Peach, what the hell are you even trying to say? Are you arguing that Twilight is above criticism because it's popular? Are you saying that the only measures of importance worth worrying about are popularity and how much money it makes you?
Twilight may be popular, but it is by no means a good book. It is sloppily-written and is full of absolutely awful shit I would not want my kids to be reading. To bring up the "it is a kids book, it gets them into reading" defense is abhorrent to me because there are already decently-written books that can fulfill this role without the utterly repugnant, damaging messages in the series.
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Yeah, I wasn't aware of it either, until this thread.
IF WE PUT OUR DISAGREEMENTS ASIDE, WHAT WILL WE BE ABLE TO DISCUSS YELL?
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I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.
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IF WE PUT OUR DISAGREEMENTS ASIDE, WHAT WILL WE BE ABLE TO DISCUSS YELL?
Your agreements.
HEY PEACH I LIKE POSTING ON THESE FORUMS
HEY DIMMUKANE I DO TOO
And so on.
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Also, of the examples of "fads" you bring up only one is anywhere near an appropriate comparison. The Harry Potter series was not overly well-written, but at least it didn't tell teen girls that overprotective, emotionally domineering, manipulative relationships are ok so long as the guy is really really really really hot.
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I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.
Peach, some people have already said they enjoyed it, so this argument falls flat. There is a difference between enjoying something and it being good. I can eat some KFC and realise it's junk food. If I ate it and tried to claim it was haute cuisine I would expect that some people would have words to say about the matter.
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Damn, I was going to post my opinions on this subject, but I disagree with the fangirl.
It does not matter what I think because I am ungrateful for Stephenie Meyer's amazing contributions to popular culture.
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I can say that I honestly have no urge to read it. From what I've heard, they aren't the badass world of darkness vampires that turn into MOTHERFUCKING demons when they feed, so really, there's no reason to read it.
Also, the argument you're using was defined by the Greeks and Romans as graspingicus at strawsicles it's not a very useful tactic. :)
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I VERY MUCH THINK I SHOULD GO GET SOME MORE WATER, I'M FEELING A BIT PARCHED.
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Peach, Have you read the thread at all? People have said they liked it (albeit as a guilty pleasure, or as something that doesn't strain our brains that much). The fact that we like it doesn't mean it's not a pretty terribly written book. The messages are still in there, and the characters are still pretty uninteresting.
As I said to Generic name (who I didn't realise was joking, btw), none of us have said "I am too cool to like Twilight", nor have we said "It is too popular for me to like". I do not like it because, as someone who likes to write and knows how hard it is to get things published, it is a very mediocre book that somehow has gotten a lot of publicity. I am not an overly great writer, but I would be able to do better than this, but I have a hunch I won't get a book published any time soon, nor will it be something I can live off. It offends me on a number of levels, but that hits a little close to the bone.
Also, my vampires don't fuckin' sparkle
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"I am too cool to like Twilight", "It is too popular for me to like".
This is the second time today that I am reading between the lines.
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overprotective, emotionally domineering, manipulative relationships are ok so long as the guy is really really really really hot.
and sparkly.
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Twilight is simply another perfect example of American entertainment that caters to the absolute lowest common denominator. It can go on the trophy shelf next to the Larry the Cable Guy DVDs and Creed CDs.
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I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.
This is basically the most annoying opinion someone can have about shitty pop culture. You can love the hell out of a bad book and that's okay because people have different tastes, but the whole "Oh come on, you know you love it" thing is so infuriatingly stupid because AUGH. Who the fuck are you to say what we like? Have we been friends for years? Are you in our heads? Sod off.
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I VERY MUCH THINK I SHOULD GO GET SOME MORE WATER, I'M FEELING A BIT PARCHED.
I CAN SEE YOUR MOTIVATIONS FOR THIS SEEM TO BE TRUE AND ALIGN WITH MY OPINIONS OF WATER AND SUCH. CARRY ON!
See? Much pleasanter.
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I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.
I enjoy twilight because it is completely horrid. it is despicable and vapid and written badly, but I still enjoy reading them to pass time without expending brain power.
But I also agree with everyone else in this thread. So.
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I thought they were kind of crummy books BUT! I probably would have eaten that shit up in my younger years. And sometimes a not-so-great book will lead to a good one.
And also reading enriching the mind and whatnot is great, but mostly for me it is for escapism. If people want to escape into something that is as appealing as a turd in a punch bowl for me, that's their option.
Also good, light tween/teen literature is hard to come by. Kids have their Dahls, Baums, Lewises and Whites. Adults have a wealth of great stuff to read. But there is that tricky phase where it's hard to make the leap from Charlotte's Web to Charlotte Bronte. And sometimes somebody wants a book that they can skim through and not have to search for deeper meaning. From time to time everybody would rather have a burger than a fine cut of steak (or whatever the vegetarian equivalent is).
I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't like the books, but it really isn't my business trying to talk somebody else out of liking them or even thinking they're good.
The movie is awful, though.
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I'm only interested in Twilight because it's popular. I like to know what it is that people find interesting in any given piece of entertainment. Even if the work isn't interesting, it's nice to know what other people are up to.
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Seriously, Ive tried pretty hard to not bring this up again for a while, but damn a lot of the time this forum has it's head shoved up it's clique-y ass.
These books are not that great, but they are merely entertainment, we can agree on this cant we? Let the people enjoy it, enjoy it, if its not for you, then disregard it. Im getting castigated in the Across the Universe (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,17719.0.html) topic for having enjoyed something that is admittedly not great cinema. Peach is getting picked on for enjoying something that is admittedly not great literature.
It seems that this forum is overly-concerned with carving out their identity of being ahead of the pack (http://vice.typepad.com/vice_magazine/2008/11/london---vice-a.html) (often mislabeled as hating something because it's popular). Ok so Twilight is popular, it falls somewhat short of a cultural phenomenon but we get it, you hated it before it was cool, you always hated it, and these are all the reasons why. Sure it has flaws, yes you can point them out, how very enlightened of you. But that doesn't mean Peach or any other fan is wrong to like it. Backing them into corners where they have to make stupid arguments to defend themselves, then telling them their arguments are wrong, and their debating skills are wrong too, and it's probably all the horrible shitty mind eroding literature they enjoy thats causing it, and they should fall down a well and die and shut the fuck up while doing it, doesn't really change anything. All it allows you to to is pat yourselves on your self-righteous backs and make someone else feel small.
You are being uppity forum bullies and are doing the forum a disservice by making it uninviting to anyone without the time and energy required to weather the storm and break-through to the forum regulars clique.
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I dunno, I would hold that it's a cultural phenomenon. And whether people think it deserves to be or not, I still think the series is an interesting development regardless. That also probably holds true for many Twilighters, when it comes right down to it. Fandom is something people do together, whether it's over a band or a book series. Even if I don't get it, I don't really think that's a bad thing and it's definitely ridiculous to want to actually stop people from reading Twilight just because it isn't the greatest thing ever. I mean, shit, by that standard we'd all just be sitting around with our thumbs up our asses until something genuinely amazing came about.
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I don't know about the across the universe thread, but people in here are explicitly saying they don't think exactly what you are saying they do!
Also, when she says this:
I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.
that's gonna grind some gears because she is saying that whomever she is speaking to obviously is just covering up their trail of loving it by being hateful.
But they're not
Everyone is saying it doesn't matter if it's popular or not, it's a terrible book. Miss Peach here is saying 'nuh-uh! You don't like it cause it's popular!' to which surprisingly level-headed responders say No, this is why we don't like it. To which Miss Peach responds....'Yeah you do!'
Where in there is being clique-y?
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Agreed. I think it's perfectly OK to read Twilight. I also think I have reasons for not finishing the series that go well beyond elitism.
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no one was making fun of her for liking the books.
but the "i wish i could find a guy like edward in real life" and "you're just hatin' on twilight to try to be cool" stuff makes me roll my eyes.
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The reason I've been an asshole in this thread is because it was fun.
In all honesty, it was an easy-going thread. So was Across the Universe, and it still is. That's not really what I'd call a castigation.
The deal with it now is that Keri decided to defend it for more than a couple of posts. Other forumites have said they liked it, but acknowledged that it's bad. She did this, but then continued defending it, which was probably not the best of ideas, because it started this whole shit-covered sparkle argument. We were already talking about how bad it was without much of a fuss, and she was saying she didn't care, and then at some point she labeled us, which we rejected vehemently.
She's not in the wrong for liking Twilight, she's just pissed people off by saying that their reasons for not liking Twilight were a farce.
Keri, you're pretty cool. But you're fanatically defending this book, and this forum ain't too kind to fanatical defenses. You're also the only person actually trying to defend it. I'd give up, stew over it for a little while to yourself, then go play some video games or something to take your mind off it. Or sleep. It's getting kind of late.
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no one was making fun of her for liking the books.
but the "i wish i could find a guy like edward in real life" and "you're just hatin' on twilight to try to be cool" stuff makes me roll my eyes.
this. also:
Im getting castigated in the Across the Universe (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,17719.0.html) topic for having enjoyed something that is admittedly not great cinema.
You're getting yelled at in another thread so you defend yourself in this one?
Peach is getting picked on for enjoying something that is admittedly not great literature.
No she isn't. There were some snide comments earlier because she was carrying on like a typical schoolgirl. But she is one, so whatever, they died out. Things weren't even all that bad in here until Peach made this (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,21093.msg740749.html#msg740749) post saying we should be grateful to a hack for glurging out shitty fanfiction because it's for the children, then tried saying that J.K Rowling is important because she has a lot of money. I saw the argument as a function of her attitude, not what she was saying.
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I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.
Bzzzt.
To me, Twilight is sloppily written, vapid, shallow and honestly quite disturbing in its restrained sexuality. The story is poor, the plot moves at a snail's pace and every little bit of genuine darkness, interest and exploration that's possible with this narrative scenario is snuffed out for the sake of cheap thrills.
Not only that, the vampires suck. They are one of my favourite monsters, ever, and Twilight has made them into something totally unworthy of fear or hatred. Vampires are supposed to be masters of an unknowable, arcane darkness, feeding on the living for pleasure just as much as hunger. The social implications of vampirism carry a lot of possibility, but here, due to lack of weaknesses, they simply continue to live in a fashion nonsensical to beings of their power.
The issue is that Twilight isn't as much a story with true expository, or an otherworldly study of an entity that exists only in imagination as much as it's fan-service. It's like if Dragonball Z was hundreds of hours of Bulma's tits. Sure, it might be worth a look for a while, but tits don't do the job on their own. They are simply tits. Tits do not have a plot, or interesting characters. They are simply tits, and entertaining in small doses or when meaningfully implemented. But they are still effectively tits. Fake tits.
What I'm basically saying here is that Twilight is about as quality as your average fan hentai. It's cool if people enjoy it, but marching around claiming that there's any kind of depth to it is silly. Twilight is a shallow fantasy about a girl with little self-confidence finding a powerful boy to do everything for her. Even the premise is uninteresting.
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(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_end_is_not_for_a_while.png)
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how bad is it that i kind of want this to be my avatar?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3082285546_0d7815fd56_o.png)
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What's wrong with a little sparkle motion?
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(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_end_is_not_for_a_while.png)
Dammit I changed my avatar like 15 minutes before reading this post.
In more on topic news, after your earlier posts I am looking forward to messing with my students next year in regard to Twlight (as I'll be at an all girls school, I am expecting the vast majority to have read the series)
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I'm pretty much in full agreement with everything est said.
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Also good, light tween/teen literature is hard to come by. Kids have their Dahls, Baums, Lewises and Whites. Adults have a wealth of great stuff to read. But there is that tricky phase where it's hard to make the leap from Charlotte's Web to Charlotte Bronte. And sometimes somebody wants a book that they can skim through and not have to search for deeper meaning. From time to time everybody would rather have a burger than a fine cut of steak (or whatever the vegetarian equivalent is).
This simply is untrue. Anyone old enough to get Twilight is old enough to get the Vampire Chronicles. While not perfect, the first three books in that series at least are leaps and bounds above this garbage. Then you've got stuff like Lord of the Rings and His Dark Materials, which are more than suitable for the demographic these books aim themselves at.
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Eh, I disagree that Lord of the Rings is suitable. I consider myself fairly literate (not as in "I read good hur" but as in I am fairly well-read) and I couldn't manage to slog through it til the films gave me a visual framework to work with (so when I was, what, 18?). It's hardly the sort of thing that would appeal to young teenage girls. His Dark Materials I've only read the first book of, but while it's certainly "more than suitable" for the demographic, I think the key element here is some kind of romance. Which certainly isn't apparent in Northern Lights.
I dunno, I think this demographic should just be pushed more towards Harry Potter. It may not be amazing literature by any definition, but it hits all the right buttons in terms of appealing to that age group while at the same time managing to develop interesting characters, plots that require careful attention, themes beyond "hey abstinence not killing your girlfriend is difficult." It's just a shame that we don't see more books able to appeal to a broad range of young readers that actually might encourage further reading. I enjoyed Goosebumps as a kid, but the fact I was reading decent novels at the same time certainly wasn't related to R.L. Stine's writing...
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The demographic in question is 16 year old girls. I should think they'd be well beyond Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and the like.
Eh, I disagree that Lord of the Rings is suitable. I consider myself fairly literate (not as in "I read good hur" but as in I am fairly well-read) and I couldn't manage to slog through it til the films gave me a visual framework to work with (so when I was, what, 18?).
And I did it in elementary school. It's pretty dependant on the person.
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So, Lord of the Rings and Vampire Chronicles? Because I know the former kept me busy for about a weekend and then what's left (I am not familiar with The Vampire Chronicles, I don't think)? I'm not saying that there isn't good literature for young folk to read. I'm just saying who really cares if they want to read something that doesn't challenge them every now and again? If they get a crush on Edward Cullen for a year or two it's not that big of a deal. It's not any less healthy than grown-ass women I know waiting to meet their Mr. Darcy or Rochester.
They aren't good books. I've said that several times. But I went through a huge Sweet Valley High phase and turned out just fine.
Edit:
Oh, the Anne Rice books? See, I'd argue that those are some of the most fuck-boring things I've ever picked up. Purple prose and angst that you can wring from the pages? No thank you.
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I was thinking more like 12-14 y/o's, which I figured was the main demographic for Twilight. I'll clarifiy I'm not saying that I think LOTR is necessarily too difficult for that demographic anyway, but rather that it's unlikely to inspire enthusiastic interest in the novels for most readers in that demographic. I mean, I've read a lot of books at high school - I didn't like most of them. (Animal Farm was about the only exception, off the top of my head)
Part of the problem I think, in bridging that gap between younger literature and more adult literature, is that at that age a lot of your interest in pop culture/hobbies is based on what your friends are doing. I know I watched TV shows, listened to music or whatever around that age simply because it's what other people were talking about. So it's probably unsurprising that you see these fads of books in this age group, be it Goosebumps, Harry Potter, Twilight or what have you - while you'll certainly have isolated pockets of teenagers getting into a decades-old series of books, you can hardly expect it to have the popularity of a more recent series. Let's just hope the next book fad for teens is of a higher quality.
edit: and, oh, I didn't realise Vampire Chronicles were Anne Rice either. I'm loathe to recommend anything written by a woman who thinks it's a smart idea to fire her editors and rant about how amazing her writing is...
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It's pretty obvious that she didn't have any editors. The Vampire Chronicles (from what I've read) are quite adequately written, but the lady needs to step back a bit and actually re-read what's on the page because it becomes ridiculous.
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I find that the Vampire Chronicles are perfectly salvageable reading provided you don't wander too far past Queen of the Damned.
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What amuses me most about Anne Rice fandom is that there were still a few people out there who were truly surprised when she returned to Catholicism. Lestat's primary themes tend to be disillusionment and dissatisfaction with an entirely material existence. At one point Lestat reveals that his big fear is that there really isn't any underlying meaning to the universe, and frankly, he never seems gets any farther in his own personal growth than "Well, everyone has found their own personal reason for being... except me." I guess it just hits me as a li'l naive not to consider the possibility that she may have been a bit dissatisfied with the answers she came up with while exploring the world through the lens of her atheism.
This is not to say that I expected her to go back to the Church or anything, (I'm not quite that arrogant), but I will say that doubt always seemed at least as good of an explanation for her writing as the idea that she had struggled with these things in the past and successfully put them behind her.
Also, yeah, the Vampire Chronicles are florid, angsty, too damned long and the wheels completely fly off around Queen of the Damned.
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His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.
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Hey guys, guess what I'm reading.
C'mon, guess!
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Ender's Shadow?
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I know I know
Gravity's Rainbow
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Finnegans Wake?
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On Bullshit (http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7929.html)?
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Keep guessing boys, none of you are even close.
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Monster Blood IV? I am pretty sure that would be a step up from Twilight!
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(I would actually recommend On Bullshit cus it's an interesting read and as a bonus looks silly on your bookshelf)
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Um, Twilight?
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I got it. Easy Riders, Raging Bulls.
That's what I'd be reading were I trying to get someone to guess what it is I was reading.
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I find that the Vampire Chronicles are perfectly salvageable reading provided you don't wander too far past Queen of the Damned.
This is pretty true. They are average books for a good pulp read up until that one. Unfortunately I also purchased the Body Thief and Memnoch the Devil novels, both of which I started to read but stopped, as they were horrid.
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I figured it out.
She's reading this thread!
I bet you that when she sees this reply, she has no choice but to agree.
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What if she has an assistant dictate the thread to her?
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His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.
I was pretty pissed at how the movie was so lame.
At least it had the armoured bears.
All this lame shit! Then, POOF, armoured bears! Fuck yes.
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GOD THAT FILM IS SO BAD
The first thing my friend said after we were finished going "What the FUCK?" at the ridiculously abrupt ending was, "When the revolution comes, those fuckers are first up against the wall."
Also, vaguely on topic, The Guardian's Lucy Mangan says that reading Twilight is a bad thing for teenagegirls to do. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/dec/04/twilight-film-vampire)
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His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.
Ah, Gemmwah, does His Dark Materials feature cold, hard, immaculately sculpted manflesh? If so, does it sparkle?
Also that Guardian article's good.
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Yeah, I really didn't like that movie. Nicole Kidman needs to not be in anything, ever.
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agreed!
(god i hate her)
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His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.
Ah, Gemmwah, does His Dark Materials feature cold, hard, immaculately sculpted manflesh? If so, does it sparkle?
Also that Guardian article's good.
Well, it's got Daniel Craig in the arctic. And it has sparkly dust.
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I actually thought the movie was an ok adaptation. Nicole Kidman was a mistake, but I thought the rest of the characters were fine (Scoresby was perfect, go Sam Elliot). I think in light of how serious the series gets further in, people forget that the first book was much more of a children's book than the two which followed it. As far as the ending to the movie went, I had no problem with it, assuming a sequel. I likened it to mixing the beginnings/endings of the LoTR films.
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Nicole Kidman was a mistake
This should be at the foremost for any casting agent wanting someone of Nicole Kidman's general description in a movie. "NB: Nicole Kidman would be a mistake" should be at the top of basically every writing pad used by anyone in the biz.
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Today I gave my students a very, very difficult test. I smiled over and over as they discovered the numerous traps and villainies that I had laid in store for them.*
To amuse myself, the short answer portion of the test was all about ninjas and sumo wrestlers taking over the school and the various efforts of the student body to fight them off. At one point one girl said, "This should totally happen."
I stopped answering another girl's question, turned, and said, "Remember, Edward won't be there to save you."
Hilarity ensued.
* At one point one girl discovered a trap and exclaimed, "You are evil!" Two other girls who had already finished said, simultaneously, "What did you do?" I grinned and grinned and repeated my apothegm "I am the anti-Claus."
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Wait, what subject do you teach anyway? You didn't answer that yet, did you? Just the grades you teach, right?
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I believe he is an english teacher? Or have my multiple days of lurking led me to imagine things?
I find myself in an interesting position in regards to all this. I'm the same age and general demographic as Peaches (albeit male), and I am most certainly of a highly literary bent. I must admit, however, that I highly enjoyed the Twilight books. They captured my attention, left me unable to put them down, and I'll even admit to going to the midnight release party for the 4th book (with my girlfriend, thank you very much). I can match fan-girlyness with the best of 'em. However, I am also in agreement with many of the other points of view stated so far. I'm an avid Pratchett, Scott Card, and Clancy reader who genuinely enjoys (most) "great/classic" literature, and have been so since middle school. I can't help feeling that the His Dark Materials books were just generally... not enjoyable, though I can't at the moment express exactly why. I mostly made it through The Golden Compass, and got midway through The Subtle Knife before I realized I was only reading to see the next cool use of the Knife itself.
It comes back to basic personality I believe. Those who are inclined to read will do so. From what I remember of middle school even then is pretty late to get someone turned on to reading if they aren't already. Someone mentioned not too long ago how the lowest common denominator factor of entertainment comes in to play. The Twilight books can certainly be entertaining, but perhaps they fall more into the world of "mainstream entertainment" than "quality literature". It all comes down to how you want to define what terms.
--preemptive apologies if I contradicted myself or lacked a point in general. Just wanted to get in on the discussion.
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A big problem I've found I have with the "at least it gets kids reading" stance is that I've not seen a single kid reading this shit. Everyone I see, or hear about, reading this garbage is between 17 and 30. What excuse is there for that? Sure, you may like shitty books and that's all well and good, but it's not helping anyone start reading.
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You know what's the only thing that could make these books seem more terrible to me?
If they played physically impossible inhuman baseball with aluminum bats designed to handle about seventy MPH fastballs at best, as opposed to INHUMANLY FAST AND BEAUTIFUL SLIDERS!!!
Fuck this bullshit.
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Juggles, you make a valid point.
Also, a female friend of mine has watched the movie 3 times. (she gets in free because she knows the guy who runs it)
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I thought aluminum bats weren't used in major leagues not because of their strength, but because it would be too easy, the people that consistently hit it into the outfield would be hitting home runs with aluminum bats?
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Wait, what subject do you teach anyway? You didn't answer that yet, did you? Just the grades you teach, right?
Science. They fought ninjas with science. And won.
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Dont bring a katana to a gun fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc&feature=related)
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Wait, what subject do you teach anyway? You didn't answer that yet, did you? Just the grades you teach, right?
Science. They fought ninjas with science. And won.
That makes sense, a few household chemicals in the proper proportions, huh?
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Well... momentum, density, and acceleration, but yeah.
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Dont bring a katana to a gun fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc&feature=related)
Toshiro Mifune will come back from the dead to prove you wrong.
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http://www.take180.com/s/ep5l7?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=jb_twix
Funniest thing. Ever.
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You know, I have new respect for the actors in the movie. Considering how close the lines in the parody are to the movie, I hadn't realized how shitty a script they got handed until just now. No wonder they both hate the movie.
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Every time I see one of my students carrying one of these books, I want to... make pointed, mean comments. I refrain.
But shit damn do I want to give them detention for reading such antifeminist garbage.
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(I would actually recommend On Bullshit cus it's an interesting read and as a bonus looks silly on your bookshelf)
Late response, but just reminding you guys to listen to this man.
Anyways, I remember distinctly how I got into this series. I was clicking around on facebook and I got to the profile of a younger sister of a classmate. She had a number of those bumper stickers referring to Edward Cullen. I remember thinking to myself, specifically: I am sad, I want to read shitty fan fiction. It was based on this explicit desire that I googled the name. As it turned out the original texts were readily available and I figured that I might as well familiarize myself with the story before looking for fan fiction.
Of course, after reading the books, I found there was no need for fan fiction.
So, they served their purpose for me. I read through all the books in two nights and was thus distracted for a short time from my grandma being in hospice care.
I guess this was a useless response except for where I reveal to you all that I am not smart at all. In fact I intentionally seek out shit to read :-(
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I'm reading the fourth book and I have to say that the beginning of it is utter bullshit. Not that the first three books aren't crap, but jeeze, COME ON.
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It's currently out of stock but hopefully they'll get more in in time for Christmas.
Be a vampire! (http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/store/product.jsp?FOLDER<>folder_id=2534374302028384&PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524442193019&bmUID=1229042985652)
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Oh dear god. My students are going to be attacking each other with that shit.
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You might want something teflon-coated in case they try it on you when you insult their book.
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First one that tries that on me will get the business end of a hissy fit.
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Yes, but you will still end up glittering.
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I didn't even know what the books were until my boyfriend bought and read them all. Then, with all the backlash going on, I was curious enough to read them and see just how terrible they were.
Answer, the first one is awful. The prose is bloated (I cannot help but think of the following line, '"I'm sorry," I apologized.'...Anyone see the problem with that? And she does it TWICE on a page) and full of unforgivable mistakes. And the love story is horrible and full of creepy anti-feminist undertones. And yet I was entertained enough to keep reading. The second boo was better, the third was almost sort of good, what with the more blood and vampire backstories. The fourth was less good, what with the ending not having a bloody battle.
I just don't understand that people are obsessed with the WORST part of the books -- the crap between Edward and Bella. It's exactly the same as when teenage girls freaked out over "Titanic" and it's awesomely generic, boring, anchronistic, unconvincing lvoe story, and ignored the amazingly interesting historical tragedy aspects.
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I'm willing to forgive her having a hard time with speech verbs, they are a bitch to write, especially when you have a lot of dialogue, you keep second guessing yourself. "Did I use say too many times?" I hate that part of it. Sometimes, you should just stick with no verb at all, but do that too much and you screw it up as well. Of course, a bit of editing would have probably helped, if she hadn't just written it all in one long run without appreciable editing (hopefully). How did she even get published, anyway? Her husband a publisher?
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http://www.take180.com/s/ep5l7?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=jb_twix
Funniest thing. Ever.
...You're joking, right? That was an awful parody christmas AND Twilight.
It's currently out of stock but hopefully they'll get more in in time for Christmas.
Be a vampire! (http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/store/product.jsp?FOLDER<>folder_id=2534374302028384&PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524442193019&bmUID=1229042985652)
That is so amazingly hilarious that I think I might have to buy it.
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I hope you acted fast; apparently it's sold out, at least on their online catalogue.
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it was even before he posted (she? sorry, can't tell). Might be a store in the middle of nowhere that still has some. Well, unless it is part of the Utah nowhere. Or a nowhere that the person in charge of ordering stuff hates twilight enough to cut into profits (I have heard that hot topics can have a pretty big variation between them in stock carried).
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Whats wrong with a little iridescent glittering? Raptor-Jesus does it, why cant I.
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(I would actually recommend On Bullshit cus it's an interesting read and as a bonus looks silly on your bookshelf)
Late response, but just reminding you guys to listen to this man.
Even later response, but, right.
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So these books were briefly discussed in a corner of the faculty christmas party last night (I may have ranted). An interesting theory was put forth as to why 13-14 year old girls are devouring these things. Because it's a first crush in book form. The obsession, thinking the other person is completely perfect, thinking even their flaws make them better, more beautiful. These are children who, due to inexperience, don't really have any awareness of what love actually is, so this series really speaks to what they know.
Which is why it's utter shit. Because they don't know a fucking thing.
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That doesn't quite seem to fit, though. 13-14 year old girls will already have had their first crush, perhaps they are wanting to read something like it, but ending better?
Oh, something brightened up my day a few days ago. I just met an old elementary school friend again, and she doesn't like Twilight. Not the level of hate some people have for it, but she doesn't like it.
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That doesn't quite seem to fit, though. 13-14 year old girls will already have had their first crush, perhaps they are wanting to read something like it, but ending better?
Death - The Ultimate Happy Ending! WHEE! Or undeath. Take your pick.
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Eh, the first one happens to everyone, might as well make it useful or enjoyable. But really, it doesn't seem to apply, given that I tend to think of death as being the end of your experience on this world, where as in Twilight, it is just the beginning of bland mary-sueness.
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Eh, the first one happens to everyone, might as well make it useful or enjoyable. But really, it doesn't seem to apply, given that I tend to think of death as being the end of your experience on this world, where as in Twilight, it is just the beginning of bland mary-sueness.
At least the terrifying nothingness of death has a morbid beauty to it. Like shark teeth.
Twilight, if it were a person, would be someone who starts adulthood very cocky before realising their grave inadequacies and ultimately ends up throwing their life away to crack cocaine and booze in an effort to delude itself.
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Harry Potter is like a hot dog. It's not great, but it's not terrible. It's kinda fun and something you eat (read) when you're looking for something easy.
Twilight is like a dirty twinkie.
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I first read Twilight because a friend had wanted me to read it. I read the whole series, only because it was so terrible I just had to keep reading it to see if it could get any worse. :p Never again will I pick it up, unless I'm really in need of a good laugh. The whole series feels like it's written by a little twelve-year-old vampire fangirl. I was tempted to see the movie, because I heard it was even worse than the books, but I don't really know if I want to spend money on it...
My fifteen-year-old sister, on the other hand, absolutely loves the books. She usually hates reading, so it's good that she's reading them I guess?
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Man, I actually really enjoyed the film. It's not great, but what it does with the book is legitimately amazing. Cuts out all the inane babbling between Edward and Bella, for instance. Too bad it couldn't cut out the problems with the plot.
The film's treatment (not sure how much is Hardwicke's or Rosenberg's doing) of high school life was very sweet, in showing how every small interaction is magnified in significance. (This becomes a kinda bad pun in the biology lab scene when they work with microscopes while scrutinizing each other.) Certain moments ended up staying with me, like when the girls were trying on prom dresses. I dunno, it is just endearing to see young girls watching themselves in the mirror, self-conscious and anxious about how they look but pleasantly surprised with what they see.
Some of it was awkward, like Eric and Mike and all the other boys trying to fawn over Bella, but that was kinda inevitable because it's a stupid premise. Other small things were done well, like the relationship between Bella and her father Charlie.
Also I liked how the principal characters were strengthened. Pattinson wasn't the charming/cocky guy from the book, instead he looked/talked/behaved like a fucking alien. Edward seemed genuinely withdrawn into himself and isolated. In that scene where he jumps off Bella's truck and tells her he's going to take her to meet his family, he acts kind of...socially retarded? Like, he's just so excited with this idea he had that he's just going to share it with Bella right now, oblivious to his own weird behavior.
Similarly, Stewart wasn't the useless fill-in-the-blank (with yourself, the reader) girl; she was actually pretty strong and stubborn in pursuing her decisions. When Edward blubbers about not being able to handle his feeeelings, she forces him to deal by asserting her own feelings. She doesn't get intimidated by his withering attempts at scary faces. She's intelligent, curious, figures stuff out and gets shit done. Whereas in the book Edward is the one in control, telling Bella what's good for her and setting the limits on her sexual desires (and carrying her around like a child to boot), in the film it is clear that they are mutually just a little nervous around each other, like in the bedroom scene after their first kiss. In other words, they both act like teenagers. He still withdraws rather violently when they approach intimacy (which is problematic for obvious reasons) but his reaction is presented as an expression of vulnerability rather than a patronizing castigation of Bella.
Honestly, it's incredibly retarded that Edward is supposed to be over 100 years old and his first love is a 17-year-old, and it becomes really problematic in light of the franchise's fanbase. The imbalance of power in the dynamics of their relationship is even more creepy in the book. I think it's good that he came across as about equal in maturity to Bella in the film.
One big problem with the book is that Edward is, for all intents and purposes, Bella's imaginary friend, in that he is basically with her all night every night. Like, he was literally a crush come to life. What I mean is, I think when young girls have their first crushes, they're basically just a new kind of imaginary friend in that they build the person up in their mind and start imagining the crush everywhere, reacting to all the different going-ons in their own life. (I, uh, draw this from my own memories.) Edward as a character was just an extension of that fantasy. The film removed this bullshit, I thought.
I don't know if I like that this film is so hyped though. Whenever I read something online about the reaction of fans I find it terrifying. Little girls should not be thinking the things this book is telling them!
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Aw fuck I'm a little girl :-(
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Don't beat yourself up, you expressed your opinions in a relatively mature fashion :-D
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ruyi, i <3 you because you just said everything that i felt about twilight movie vs. book but didn't feel like taking the time to explain to people.
it's easier to just tell people that i have a 12 year old girl crush on robert pattinson.
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Your avatar makes me giggle.
I want to see the movie when it comes out on video just for shits and giggles. I mean, the books weren't great in the first place, but supposedly they're on par with the books.
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Guess who gets to read Twilight for his Women Studies course?!
This is going to be the most exciting course ever, ever.
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Wow.
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And the point is? I hope it's to say that this is not how most females act. Please say that's what it is.
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It's a book...by a WOMAN!
What more do you want you filthy hippies?
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His Dark Materials I've only read the first book of, but while it's certainly "more than suitable" for the demographic, I think the key element here is some kind of romance. Which certainly isn't apparent in Northern Lights.
That's because Lyra's love interest isn't introduced until the second book.
And that most people don't even notice that its a love story while its happening, 'cause its actually a love story, not a lust story.
Also the movie totally botched everything.
--------------------------
As for Twilight, I like the books, because they're bad. I can read one in a sitting if I'm bored; its just like watching TV.
Also, I like to think they were just practice for The Host, which is really good if you're paying attention and realize that the story is NOT in fact about Melanie and Jared. The Host is the one that should have gotten a movie deal; its better than all of Twilight put together.
As for the movie,
I don't think it was worse than the books, and it (mostly) stood on its on feet, which is not something you can say about many book-to-movie movies. Maybe I'm just overly forgiving because no matter how bad something is, I always think, "well, at least its not as bad as Eragon."
And another thing, the loss of Midnight Sun is really a big deal. The Edward in the movie was drawn from that, and even though that was more of an accident on Robert Patterson's part, he nailed it; after reading the partial draft, you realize that most of what makes Twilight so inane is actually intentional, showing Bella's point of view. Reading it from Edward's perspective really shows how twisted Bella's view of things really is, and a lot of things that seemed trite or nonsensical suddenly fit together.
Not that any of it makes the series suddenly perfect; I think of twilight with the same "eh its better than nothing" fondness with which I watch That 70s Show reruns.
In conclusion, I vote for His Dark Materials to be added to the English curriculum standards. :-D
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Really? I read Midnight Sun, and for me, the only thing that
Reading it from Edward's perspective really shows
is that SMeyer cannot write a 100+ year old dude to save her life. She instead takes up the supposed voice of an angsty, pretentious, ennui-tastic teenager bored with high school and his peers, replete with imagining in what time period he can kill everyone in the room.
But he sparkles and stuff.
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I don't think that SM had any such intention NQG.
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Having not read the books, nor seen the movie I find I have only one REAL thing to contribute to this conversation, and that is limited to four little words "Vampires Should Not Sparkle!!
I want to ask a minor question by the way, since when did "vampire" come to mean, attractive preadator? People seem to have forgotten that in the earliest stories they are horrendous walking corpses feasting on the blood of the living. They have become attractive alternative girls or moody gitwizards since... well probably just after the "hammer horror" films finished.
It gets on my wick that while they are often evil, they are never bestial... I am starting to wish people would return to the old ones, at least they would make cool bad guys instead of just flouncy ones.
Oh yeah that reminds me, a goodly amount of my friends went to see it and were... impressed shall we say with the male lead. "why didn't he take his shirt off more" is not something I expect to hear when people are reviewing a film.
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lol josef, you're right about women being impressed by the male lead :D
most of my female friends find the male lead's looks to be the most notable thing in the movie.
I miss the times when vampires actually shunned the light, were feared, and only wanted to romance women to make their undead bride.
A vampire that walks in broad daylight, even though he finds it mildly uncomfortable -.-, you could just call him a cannibal, cause that's what he is a man that eats other people and has little of the disabilities a vampire has
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Again, Dracula in Stoker's book could walk in the sun, he just wasn't a near-godlike monster that could scuttle down a stone wall headfirst, command wolves, and turn into a cloud of dust that mesmerized people with the reflections of moonlight when he was in the sun. Actually, I guess vampires can sparkle, because that seems to be pretty much how the dust was described as reacting to the moon. I still think the sunlight sparkles are an abomination.
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Vampires have always been subversive, Josef. After all, fangs can penetrate and so can a penis.
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Vampires have always been sexual. And not just the male ones. It wasn't necessarily a nice or pretty sexuality, heck, Stokers vampires were pretty much rapists, but it was there.
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I was meaning more the sole fact that they are now attractive, as opposed to Dracula himself who (whilst being described in extremly sensual terms) is not only erotic but also can appear as a corpse or at least as a creepy and deranged eccentric. It could just have easily have been the werewolf that becomes the sexual creation as the vampire (read the original little red ridinghood and watch your childhood burn like a candle).
I just can't understand why this has been the chosen medium for a terrifying undead opponent, instead of being a creature of darkness, sensual, preadatory and unremitingly evil we have... Angsty, cute and misunderstood.
I have realised how anti erotic my last message was, I did not mean it to be I realise how the preadatory aspect has been in the whole gene pool of vampires as long as Dracula came along but I just did not understand why it tends to be the most important. If you could combine the terrifying and the erotic you have a villain that will haunt the dreams of watchers for a good long while.
Perhaps its just me, I always found nosferatu the cooler rather than Dracula :-)
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511 posts?
Twilight is the ultimate trollbait.
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It's not really trolling. There has been maybe one pseudo-argument out of the entire thread.
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I think it's just really fun to make fun of, I don't think that qualifies as trolling.
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I have read MANY versions of Little Red Riding Hood, including the original, and my childhood is still intact. Most of the original versions are the best versions. At least in the original she's not a ninny that gets eaten by the wolf, but outsmarts him and runs away. Also, this is why if you watch Into The Woods, the werewolf is more of a sexual being/predator than he is hungry animal. The allusion has always been there, but the Grimms kind of ruined that bit.
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Or hid it because they were children's stories.
I wasn't alive in the 19th century, but as i understand it they weren't too hot on sex in books at the time.
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I'm pretty sure that if you wanted publicly accessible and accepted sexual media in the 19th century books were probably your best bet.
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wow, weird sense of deja vu with those replies... seriously, I have seen those three pictures in a line somewhere else before...
I dunno Garp, most of the 19th century was riddled with sexual allusions, I mean dracula is one example, Carmilla another. Anything that could get under the censor of popular morality (or in Europe French litigation) would be snapped up.
I need to see into the woods, I have seen Assassins and Sweeney Todd on stage and really want to see the last "big" sondheim musical (had to study them and listen to the music for A level drama).
Back to the subject at hand, why does the "hearthrob" sparkle?
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because the vampires in the books' setting sparkle in the sunlight. That is why they avoid the sun.
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So no reason like "they are made of rock and they sparkle like quartz?" no reason like "infernal energy is burned off in the sunlight, if we stay in it too long we begin to age?" No reason at all in fact?
Good Lord how did these things become so popular!
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Because they are easy to consume and offer no social drawback, except for the angst that is theoretically so attractive.
Of course, this also robs them of depth and anything interestingly really.
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Or hid it because they were children's stories.
I wasn't alive in the 19th century, but as i understand it they weren't too hot on sex in books at the time.
You have no idea how much there was. They were all over the place, including children's stories.
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Or hid it because they were children's stories.
I wasn't alive in the 19th century, but as i understand it they weren't too hot on sex in books at the time.
The original Grimm stories were quite full of sex and rape and murder and all of it. Over the years they've been incredibly thoroughly bowdlerized. So where once a king happened upon a corpse, had sex with it, and subsequently found that the corpse had gotten pregnant and given birth to two children... now the king finds two children.
Oh, and there were a LOT of sex books, tijuana bibles, things like that. You just had to be a bit clever about finding them. I think there was even some pornography in the illuminations of medieval manuscripts (which, remember, were done by monks).
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(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/happybunny_willkillyou/rob.gif)
I thought some would appreciate this.
CULLENCREW4LIFE.
(btw, jk about cullencrew4life.)
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Why the flipping fuck do they all look like the same guy =3
Nice pic =D
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I could watch that for hours. It makes me giggle.
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The only one NOT making silly faces is the dude in the very back. The rest of them look super silly and it makes me laugh.
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(http://karinlibrarian.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/mutts-comic-strip-homage-to-twilight.jpg)
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Now how many lame punchlines were in that thing. <__<
Oh, wait that was the point.
Ha.
Ha ha ha.
lawl.
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Oh, Mutts. <3
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Oh, Edward.
Oh, Bella.
Oh, shut up.
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So I saw the movie last night. Did anyone else catch the Smeyer cameo?
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No, who was she? I don't really recognize her, having not seen many pictures of her at all.
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It was just a moment - she was in the diner, and she was the one who looked like a horribly bloated, aged Bella, ordering a veggie platter.
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I am one of three people in my Women Studies class who haven't read the book (we're also all dudes). And you should have heard my prof talk about it...she said "You know Twilight.....great story but badly written." I had to resist putting up my hand and saying "uh...you mean it's a giant festering piece of crap, right?" And I'm going to be reviewing Breaking Dawn for and seeing how it represents feminism...
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"Before you, Bella, my life was like a moonless night. Very dark, but there were stars--points of light and reason...And then you shot across my sky like a meteor. Suddenly everything was on fire; there was brilliancy, there was beauty. When you were gone, when the meteor had fallen over the horizon, everything went black. Nothing had changed, but my eyes were blinded by the light. I couldn't see the stars anymore. And there was no more reason for anything."
- New Moon
AWWWWWWWW.
Okay, I admit. I do like Twilight & it is badly written. But holy fuck, I'd melt for a few sweet words like that.
ps.
(http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/133/e/6/e68024b002996206ec9ddf8001e72e81.jpg)
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This whole thing gave me so many giggles. Oh goodness.
http://community.livejournal.com/rpattz_trufax/52673.html
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LOL. Pretty much just a bunch of Chuck Norris jokes but changed "Chuck Norris" to "Robert Pattinson" I wonder what Chuck is gonna do about this dazzling fact?
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Can someone with a level head please tell me if he can actually act, because I do not want to see him fuck up a Salvidor Dali biopic this year.
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Wouldn't be caught dead within a hundred feet of that book series.
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Well then, I guess you better avoid my apartment building at all costs.
Just sayin'.
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They are poorly written. I mean, Twilight was the first book she had ever written and she was looking after her kids at the same time. I mean, duh it's not going to be spectacular writing. Your friends are silly for being angry with you over that.
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Some of my favorite stuff has been rather poorly written, particularly a few gems that were written by my classmates in college. Half the internet is a testiment to the idea that you can create something that is clever and entertaining while still committing grave sins against the English language.
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I might add, that some people get a kick out of watching Two and a Half Men.
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I dunno, I guess I just think most things have value, even Twilight. I mean, I got a few laughs out of this thread, so I'm loathe to be too critical, even if the best thing about Twilight is the simple fact that for many people it's a shared experience they can talk about.
Oh god, I almost sound like an optimist. WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE?
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Can someone with a level head please tell me if he can actually act
(yes)
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I might add, that some people get a kick out of watching Two and a Half Men.
I disagree with Two and a Half Men. It is such Raging Bull(shit) I just dont get it. Its a 15 year backslide in quality for sitcoms. Shitty sets, shitty acting, shitty camera work & lighting and shitty dialog, its universally horrible.
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I declare Twilight to be a 100% light-hearted slapstick comedy series about how emotionally shallow people interact.
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Can someone with a level head please tell me if he can actually act, because I do not want to see him fuck up a Salvidor Dali biopic this year.
Good ol Cedric Diggory can act. 8-)
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some girl in my class openly admitted to wanting to rape Rabert Pattisson until his pelvis was grinded to dust. Lucky bastard
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Yeah, rape victims have all the fun.
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and the nice guy friends get all the details they don't want to hear.
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I don't know about you guys, but getting my pelvis ground into dust sounds awesome. I will have to bring it up next time someone wants to rape me.
Seriously, what part of that statement makes Robert Pattinson a "lucky bastard"?
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he gets to get raped by any hot teenage girl he wants (or doesn't)
I get to be the nice guy friend and service bitch to said teenage girls.
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he gets to get raped by any hot teenage girl he wants (or doesn't)
I get to be the nice guy friend and service bitch to said teenage girls.
You would rather be raped? Can you see what I am getting at here?
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by teh hawt crazy girl in my class? obviously
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Whoever linked Head Trip, thanks! It was a fun read. The artist wrote another comic on the subject: http://headtripcomics.comicgenesis.com/d/20080915.html (http://headtripcomics.comicgenesis.com/d/20080915.html)
Also, I was going to tell people to calm down apropos of frullic's crotch-grinding post, but that last post is pretty unfortunate.
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Death by Snu-Snu!
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damn, I got ninja'd on that one... you win this time Alex...
By the way Twilight was based from some mormon chick's creepy wet dream
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It's not "rape" if you want it, frullic.
Jesus fucking christ.
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some argue 2 guys 1 horse was rape...
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Frullic, have you read the thread at all? We have already talked all about what the story is based on.
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I read it, just needs to be posted everywhere, kinda like Desu
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What. The. Fuck. Is going on here?
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I know, right?
Frullic, please stop talking.
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hey, you try posting something intelligent while high
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Hey, try not posting something at all when you're high! Obviously it doesn't work well!
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fine, I'll go diss people on 4Chan then
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Excellent decision. Cupcakes all round.
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ugh, I just burned my eyes on some bad Twilight hentai someone posted in /b/
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eh, it happens.
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Rape is not consensual.
Rape is not consensual.
Rape is not consensual.
Also, I don't know how many here are readers of Something*Positive, but the blogs from the last 2 days have been talking/ranting about a convention/extortion scheme for twilight fans. It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to separate stupid people from their money.
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I was just told that my friend's sister, who is obsessed with Twilight, took it too far. Other than the shirts, bracelets, other typical fangirl crap, she got a frickin tattoo of a vampire bite on her neck. She's a twenty yr old girl! Come on! And she's actually really intelligent! I don't see how she could be that dumb.
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One of the highest points of my holiday season was being in a bookstore while a middle aged, paunchy woman wearing a motorcycle jacket, a TEAM EDWARD shirt, and her accessory-cum-lifepartner entered, realized that the Twilight soundtrack was playing and then loudly started singing and lurching around in a semblance of dancing.
TEAM EDWARD
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my vote still goes for TEAM VAMPIRE BASEBALL.
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What about Team Tyler's van? We could have cut the whole damn thing down to a hundred pages.
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Jesus shit. I found out last night that my girlfriend's (older) sister is really into the Twilight series. Both Alyssa and I hate it and were picking on her sister about it, since she's a woman in her late 20s who has a degree in engineering. She got really upset about it and ranted about people who think they're better than other people because they don't read Twilight, then stormed out of the room. Alyssa and I just kind of stared at eachother afterward in silence. It was...very bizarre. I know other people who've read the books, but when teased about it, they usually admit that it's just pulpy, pointless escapism. I haven't come across someone who actually gets angry about the thing.
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Because ultimately only fucking assholes legitimately hate on what other people do in there spare time. Naturally provide it isnt shaking babies or kicking dogs.
Its ok to gently chide people but to really hate on them and genuinely insult them is beyond prickish. Seriously when I was 17 I used to care what other people did and be an asshole about it, then I grew up and realized theres 'different strokes for different folks' and not everyone is going to live up to the ideal I expect of them (let alone myself).
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I found the Twilight books to be vapid crap. Granted, it's wonderful that more kids are reading, and I know a few who started reading different books after Twilight showed them that maybe it was fun to read sometimes, but I still had to push myself to read the books (most of my immediate friends are into the series, so I read it too). I really found the depiction of Edward's and Bella's romance as wonderful/inspiring/true love disturbing, it seems far to co-dependent and obsessive to be anywhere near healthy. What really bothers me is a 15 year old girl I know thinks that's how all relationships should work, and got upset because her boyfriend didn't get obscenely jealous when another guy hugged her. Christ on toast, people, having someone sneak into your bedroom and watch you sleep is not romantic, it's fucking creepy.
I honestly liked Meyer's The Host a lot better. I thought it was more original and the writing was of better quality than Twilight, though I still wouldn't classify it as an 'adult novel'.
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Agreed. The Host much better than the Twilight series.
Also, why Chuck Norris get changed to Anal Prolapse in my last post? I don't understand.
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It's a word filter. Can't remember what for.
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Also, why Anal Prolapse get changed to Anal Prolapse in my last post? I don't understand.
Wut?
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Anal Prolapse is a word filter for when you type Chuck Norris.
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Thank god, Chuck Norris jokes/everything was quite the fad I had to endure. Im glad its over (mostly)
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I never really minded Chuck Norris jokes. I mean, his acting is so wooden that I wouldn't have been surprised if he caught fire in the middle of one of his films. I don't understand why you wouldn't want a guy like that in your life at some level.
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They are like dead baby jokes. Theres only ever been 1 punch-line, just many extrapolations thereof.
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I finally read Twilight&New Moon&Eclipse during my last year of high school, since all my friends were insane about it... The style was, well, interesting, in that same way that reading Harry Potter fanfictions written by twelve year olds is interesting. Though maybe not quite that bad. I read every book, and what struck me was the fact that it had the potential to be as good as everyone made it out to be... but it really wasn't even remotely near reaching that level.
I just don't get why people are so insane over it. I mean, I kind of get the Harry Potter craze. The plot's amazing for that, especially when you take into account that the woman worked on those books for seventeen years - longer than most of her target audience's lives. But these things?
It's just... there seems to be so little thought put into it all. I simply don't understand what's got the rabid fangirls out in the droves.
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I finally read Twilight&New Moon&Eclipse during my last year of high school, since all my friends were insane about it... The style was, well, interesting, in that same way that reading Harry Potter fanfictions written by twelve year olds is interesting. Though maybe not quite that bad. I read every book, and what struck me was the fact that it had the potential to be as good as everyone made it out to be... but it really wasn't even remotely near reaching that level.
I just don't get why people are so insane over it. I mean, I kind of get the Harry Potter craze. The plot's amazing for that, especially when you take into account that the woman worked on those books for seventeen years - longer than most of her target audience's lives. But these things?
It's just... there seems to be so little thought put into it all. I simply don't understand what's got the rabid fangirls out in the droves.
I think that part of it is because the books are very, very uncomplicated, plot wise. There's no deeper thought necessary, you just read the books and it's laid out for you, it's really predictable. There isn't anything new or surprising about the plot, and that's the attraction; it's really really simple. Another part is that it's so full of emotion (everyone knows your average teenage girl is just bursting over with drama queen tendencies, after all). The 'relationship' and all the emotional ups and downs it brings speaks to girls who are living in the world of junior high.
tl ; dr, Twilight is popular because its targeted audience likes simple yet dramatic things, and Twilight is very simple and dramatic.
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Ugh. That's so stupid. The whole constant inner drama queen thing, I mean. I get what you're saying, and it definitely makes sense, and lines up with the girls I knew... but it doesn't make the concept (and the fact that it is true) any less stupid.
I mean, I'm sorry, but I got enough daily dramatics from my idiot friends, and they were frankly much less annoying than Bella. Not to mention they didn't go on constantly about how breathtakingly perfect their boyfriend of perfection always, always is.
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This (http://fricknits.typepad.com/fricknits/2008/06/10-things-i-hate-about-twilight.html) made me laugh. It sums it up pretty brilliantly.
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Ladies and gentlemen, I give you tWHYlight (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/473402)
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Besides pocky and fanfic? Unthinkable!
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I was reading the Amazon Twilight fora and saw a LOT of comparisons to Harry Potter, especially by fangirls who used Harry Potter as an example of something worse. I mean really, people, Harry Potter was not an extraordinarily well-written book, but it didn't use shitty purple prose as a crutch either. There was depth and variety in the characters, and the protagonists were not raging dicks. There was actually a sense of adventure in HP, rather than OMG HE'S SO PRETTY bullshit, and at least Potter could occassionally stand on his own two legs from time to time. And he didn't spend the first hundred pages of the book fawning over how fucking great he was. Plus he wasn't a shallow piece of shit.
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i wrote up my post then i realized that there might still be people in the world that don't know the ending of HP or the twilight series, so be aware there are spoilers in my post. yeah.
i like harry potter better than twilight because j.k. rowling didn't give up on her climactic battle scenes and she wasn't afraid to kill off her characters when characters needed killing. who died in HP? harry's parents, sirius, dumbledore, moody, hedwig, lupin and tonks (yes? been a while since i read them), and more that i know i'm missing. in twilight? um.... harry clearwater? irina... but nobody liked her anyway.
HP:OotP, huge fight in the department of mysteries, sirius dies. in eclipse, meyer takes the main characters away from the main fight and we read about it through edward's translation of seth's thoughts while bella whines about shit, shit gets real for maybe 5 pages and jacob gets injured but of course his superwolf powers save him. lame. the final battle in HP:DH was epic compared to the oh, she's not a dangerous baby after all, i guess we'll mind stab at you for a while until we realize that bella is supernewvampire then we'll give up and go home and give you everything you've always dreamed of. what the hell. harry potter's life was hard. he had bad guys after him all the damn time. bella had bad guys after her and all that happened to her was her leg got smashed and she became immortal.
seriously. there is no comparison to be made between HP and twilight.
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I've never read any of the books, but I'm also under the impression that bad things actually happened to Harry from time to time. Like friends and mentors were lost, he's an orphan and when he runs into ancient mysterious creatures they aren't sparkly and want to bone him.
EDIT
Ninjaed by Yelley!
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i cheated though... i accidentally posted before i had finished ranting and had to go back and edit. ^_^
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Because ultimately only fucking assholes legitimately hate on what other people do in there spare time. Naturally provide it isnt shaking babies or kicking dogs.
Its ok to gently chide people but to really hate on them and genuinely insult them is beyond prickish. Seriously when I was 17 I used to care what other people did and be an asshole about it, then I grew up and realized theres 'different strokes for different folks' and not everyone is going to live up to the ideal I expect of them (let alone myself).
We weren't berating or insulting her about it. We were teasing.
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I have heard Twighlight described as "Mills and boon for upset teenagers"... I am actually curious to see how far it is true for the books (went and saw the movie in order to MST it, was worth it).
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The hardcover books are worth $20+ in the local Barnes and Noble. This didn't stop a little preteen in a 'juicy' shirt from coercing her mom into buying two of them for her anyway, after some half hearted lies ("I thought they were on sale" "I didn't see the 1 in front of the 9.99") and threatening to cry.
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Haven't read it, haven't seen the movie, still feel fully within my rights to mock my girlfriend for her love of it. Along with half the rest of the female population in my city.
Dunno about yours.
Why am I so secure in my mockage?
Vampires in the daylight. 'Nuff said.
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Jens, embrace the sparkle. We did.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/andthentherewaslindsey/Boston/0673.jpg)
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Hurrr
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Man, I've come so close to making an Edward Cullen gag account so many times now. I'm just afraid I wouldn't be funny enough.
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Edward Cullen isn't really known for his sense of humor, so I don't think that's going to be a problem.
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Alex, if you don't, I might have to. I would be even less funny than you.
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The series makes me sad as I'm named Edward. When people (mostly girls younger than me) find this out, they're all like, "OMG U MEEN LIEK EDWARD CULLEN I LUV U" and it gets really old, really fast.
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My mother almost named her new chihuahua pup Bella before she remembered the series and dodged the bullet.
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The series makes me sad as I'm named Edward. When people (mostly girls younger than me) find this out, they're all like, "OMG U MEEN LIEK EDWARD CULLEN I LUV U" and it gets really old, really fast.
Because "Edward" is such an uncommon name.
I mean, I can't count the number of times people have been "OH LIKE JACKIE CHAN!!!!!!!!" to me.
Literally, because you can't count zero.
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Well, some names do draw more attention than others. For example, I have a friend named Lola and she's been getting shit about it her entire life. It didn't get any better once everyone was old enough to partake in drunken karoake nights either. I'm pretty sure Ray Davies would be in mortal danger were they ever to meet.
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That's it, I'm going by my middle name. Ashley...
But I will start cracking skulls once I get Evil Dead references.
And as for Lola...poor girl... :| It's not even a flattering song.
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My cousin nicknamed me Lola because of that song when I was 12 and didn't know any better. It also stuck. Hooray for me.
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And as for Lola...poor girl... :| It's not even a flattering song.
Actually it's a very flattering song (and an awesome one); it's just that it's about a transvestite that would probably put the girl off.
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"OMG U MEEN LIEK EDWARD CULLEN I LUV U"
Does this actually happen? You can be honest with us.
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The series makes me sad as I'm named Edward. When people (mostly girls younger than me) find this out, they're all like, "OMG U MEEN LIEK EDWARD CULLEN I LUV U" and it gets really old, really fast.
You'd have to be either fuck-stupid or ridiculously obsessed to actually connect those two sorts of things together =P I'd watch who you hang with Zingo XDDD
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That's it, I'm going by my middle name. Ashley...
But I will start cracking skulls once I get Evil Dead references.
Sounds groovy to me.
My friend named his cat bella, but he likes the books, so he did it intentionally. He refuses to call the Bella sisters in Resident Evil 4 (the chainsaw ladies) by their name, as well. Of course, I give him no end of shit for it.
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guys this is getting retarded
edward and bella are both extremely common names in various parts of the world
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Over the past couple of weeks, I got a few Twilight fans into Hellsing via the OVAs. They absolutely love it, awesome.
Of course, they compared Alucard to Edward a lot, at first. Until we hit the third OVA and it became apparent that Alucard is essentially a neutral party that just happens to be under the employ of the good guys.
Haha, Twilight fans!
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i don't know a single person who is a fan of twilight
i never even heard of it until the movie
based on this i am absolutely certain it is stupid
just like i knew napoleon dynamite was stupid even before i watched it
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I kind of know what you mean.
I have found evidence of a wider movement in support of Twilight, but I personally only know a few fans, restricted to the female population. But perhaps that's just Australia, which tends to get a lighter dose of most cultural obsessions.
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Comparing Edward to Alucard is hilarious. I mean, Hellsing is basically a batshit insane anime modeled after a batshit insane manga which exists largely to combine as much ridiculousness, guns, blades, fancy uniforms and famous locations into each frame. I mean, it's written by a guy who had to bootstrap himself up from the hentai gulags. It's juvenile, sure, but it's juvenile in a pulpy, quintessentially male sort of way that is as far from Twilight as you can imagine.
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It's juvenile in a way that only grown people can really appreciate. As Khar once said:
Hellsing is about the Knights of the Round Table using Count Dracula to fight Nazis and the Inquisition.
(Although, that said, I don't believe Hellsing is without its own exposition.)
(I think the girls I mentioned really only enjoyed the sex appeal of Twilight, so Hellsing was awesome for them anyway)
(Because it shows that it was written and drawn by a hentai artist)
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Whoever said I need to watch my company:
Emo girls love me. They flock to me. I really wish I were kidding. I can't stand them, which I guess fuels more reasons to be emo. They also write me poetry, which I generally burn. The one that sticks out was one along the lines of
Eddy, oh Eddy
My body burns to your touch
Eddy, oh Eddy
My heart is a flame for you
The wax turns to goo
Eddy, oh Eddy
Blah blah blah fucking blah. It was so bad that I laughed out loud reading it. Also, I don't like anyone calling me "Eddy," - if they *must* use that name, at least end it in '-ie' for fuck's sake.
They also come to me when they're threatening to kill themselves, and I help them a few times, but generally tell them to kill themselves if their life sucks so bad. It's a pretty safe thing to say - they realize that if they're dead, they can't bitch.
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Great job being so cool under threat of emotionally weak teenage girls, man.
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My favourite line was "The wax turns to goo".
I laughed loudest at that line. A poor excuse for rhyming.
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Your posts get less and less plausible.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sademie/twilight02of1.jpg)
herp derp
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I must say, my first thought on that is "Wow, that's a pretty good job on the font and the texture...."
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Yeah, that is very well-done.
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...Would it make me a bad person to print that out and affix it to the girls bathroom stalls?
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No, It would not.
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I started reading it a couple of days ago on a dare (I was somewhat curious anyway, to be honest). I only read it at school and it's a good time-waster. I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, it's not that poorly written and I enjoyed Cullen's family story (probably the only part of the book I can say I actually liked, but I'm not finished reading it yet), but on the other I find Meyer's obsession with physical beauty and the relationships between Bella & Ed/ Bella & Charlie/ Bella & her mother all to be pretty bad. In Edward's case because it is really hard not to interpret it as abusive, in Charlie's case because of the way she takes care of him like a goddamn wife--I actually found the relationship a bit creepy at times, but mostly I felt bad that she sort of treated him like shit even with all the things she did for him, and in the case of her mother... there's nothing there. I mean she describes her as her best friend but makes no effort to communicate with her on any but the barest level.
The sparkly thing was stupid, as was the whole Edward-with-his-shirt-unbuttoned scene. But I guess this book is a romance novel, so I guess I should expect it.
The very brief mentions of religion generally bother me because I can't read them without thinking that Meyer is promoting her religion. Carlisle seeems like a genuinely interesting character, however. (He was a priest before becoming a vampire, for those who aren't going to read it/ haven't yet)
On that note, most of her characters are boring and two-dimensional. Edward might be able to read minds, but who couldn't in a world like that?
Bella's mention of an "estrogen rush" during her girl's night out made me cringe with You Fail At Biology Forever (I actually joined tvtropes just to add that bit)
I honestly just can't stand Bella in general.
Meyer is pretty heavy with a thesaurus, but it's only gotten on my nerves a couple of times.
It is not, however, as bad as I thought it would be. I can read it and actually get somewhat into it... but I just can't immerse myself completely, it just has too many flaws. I don't think I could read it without a conscious effort, honestly.
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Twilight is the literary equivalent of being penetrated anally by a retractable baton.
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Thanks for playing!
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I WISH TO PRINT A HIGH DEFINITION A3 VERSION OF THAT POSTER PICTURE BECAUSE THAT IS AWESOME
And yeah, the best part was the font.
There will be a point where society in a hundred years forgets why people called the 21st century shit-literature, shit-literature, and Twilight will be at the forefront of the studies of the 22nd century's schoolchildren over the issue of "high literature".
The world will probably end shortly afterwards.
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...Would it make me a bad person to print that out and affix it to the girls bathroom stalls?
Quite the contrary, you would become as a hero to me.
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. I don't think I could read it without a conscious effort, honestly.
That's weird, 'cause for me, the only appealing thing about the books is that they're absolutely effortless to read. Seriously. It takes more energy to watch TV than to read Twilight.
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No you don't understand, it didn't captivate him and he had to force himself to read it. Personally, I found the same thing when I read it.
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So I finished it today (I lost it on the bus and only just replaced it) and I'll admit that the ending was at least somewhat suspensful. The vampires-love-baseball thing was hard to take seriously and the entire ballet-room scene was predictable, but at least there actually was some modicum of action and danger rather then the tired excuse for it that Edward's bloodlust presented throughout the rest of the book.
Alice's back-story could have been very interesting if it was given more than just a passing thought, but as it seems to play no role in her character beyond her vampire power it left me more frustrated at Meyer's mediocre character development than anything. I mean, even after Alice finds out about her human life she is absolutely unaffected by it--no introspection, no curiosity, no sadness...
After the book ended there was a preview of New Moon. I found myself sympathetic towards Bella's fear of growing old while Edward stayed young, but that sympathy fell apart when she turned it into an excuse to be helplessly angsty about the affection her friends and family showed her on her birthday. She finallly cheers up and starts accepting gifts, and in the process gets into some pretty deep shit. While I'd like to think that means that she might actually have to fend for herself at some point in the series, I am more inclined to expect further dependence and helplessness.
But then at the back of the book were "Twilight Discussion Questions". I mean... huh? At first I thought it was a writer's Q&A, but it was honestly-to-God just a bunch of literary-examination questions. Questions like "Bella faints at the smell of blood. If she were to become a vampire, how might this serve as a hindrance? How might it be an asset?" Putting aside that she faints all of once in the entire book (despite multiple appearances of blood), I couldn't help but wonder who decided that the readers were so stupid and thoughtless that they were incapable of asking their own questions about the book.
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I actually read all four because my ex is a fan of the series (not crazy, but enough to be worrisome). If you want to know what the next book is like, take the portions where she's mopy and stupid, stretch across hundreds of pages, throw in imaginary voices that are really poorly explained, and there you go. I'm honestly surprised she doesn't wind up cutting in the next book.
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Yeah, she skips that and goes straight to attempting suicide. Great example for the children, Mrs. Meyers.
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But he's so dreamy
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Had the stomach to properly read some of it again.
I will do this every time I lose focus and believe that Twilight might not have been a bad series, just misunderstood.
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Do you also eat things out of the garbage just in case it was something else that gave you food poisoning?
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Yeah, just read one of the chapter-by-chapter satires.
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(http://www.whydidigowrong.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/eddie-munster.jpg)
I AM NOT SURE WHY LADIES WANT TO SLEEP WITH HIM.
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Great pagebreak.
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Apparently Stephen King is now also on record as saying Meyer isn't very good; I cannot be sure if considering the source would make that sting more or less, really.
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I just had to deal with a group of my friends trying to drag me to see the movie again. Then they got offended when I explained that the main reason I went the first time was because Cam Gigandet appears wearing nothing but some sexy, dirty jeans and his delicious bare chest.
*drools*
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Alice's back-story could have been very interesting if it was given more than just a passing thought, but as it seems to play no role in her character beyond her vampire power it left me more frustrated at Meyer's mediocre character development than anything. I mean, even after Alice finds out about her human life she is absolutely unaffected by it--no introspection, no curiosity, no sadness...
THIS. DEAR GOD THIS.
I said this to my Twilight obsessed friend and she said something like "oh well they develop Alice's story further in the other books", but I do not believe her, and I do not have enough energy to sit through another 3 novels of this drivel. To be quite fair, if the whole series had been about Alice it could have been pretty good.
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If the whole series was about Alice and had been written by a more experienced SM or other writer it would have been a whole lot more interesting.
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So... the books had been written by someone else about someone else they might not have sucked?
RINGING endorsement.
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So... the books had been written by someone else about someone else they might not have sucked?
RINGING endorsement.
It's the best that series will get.
At least from anyone with half a brain.
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the first one was pretty good but the rest are total crap the keep getting worse as you read. each one sucking more than the last one.
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The movie is now on pre-sale. I have to convince people to buy this piece of crap because it comes with special commentary and a collectible film cell.
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(http://fc63.deviantart.com/fs40/f/2009/023/2/a/edward__s_REAL_power_by_whitedog1.jpg)
Bwhaha
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Sure seems like a Strong Female Character to me.
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Bwhaha
I'm not sure exactly why, but that is the funniest shit I've ever read.
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I politely and in a supportive manner encourage you to get out more often.
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man, are we still talking about this?
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Yet another picture I would +1/QFT if it didn't break my post apart.
This thread is here to remind people what kind of douches they are to like the series. Or, at the very least, a repository of people who can make fun of it without being subject to bad grammar, fangirl-squeeing and the like.
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okay, i have been thoroughly reminded that i am a douche for liking the twilight series.
what page are we on now, 14? really? guys, this is what stephenie meyer wants! (damn, i guessed 8 pages first...)
(nah, it's cool. carry on with the bashing if you feel it's still relevant.... i hardly hear anything about twilight nowadays except for on this forum.)
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Mediocre books which were entertaining enough to speed through (the better to not focus on all that purpose prose, my dear) but are so much less worthy of obsession than Harry Potter and anything else that is still less than, say Orwell or Steinbeck.
I wouldn't find the mocking so entertaining if people really weren't weirdly, intensely obsessed with those books. And our generic, creepy hero.
The books MIGHT be sort of good (certainly less embarrassing) if Edward and Bella were completely erased. Focus on Jasper and his weird vampire wars past. Carlisle being a vampire doc. Alice being crazy. Even the bitchy blonde and her murderous rampage (at least she horribly slaughtered her rapists, that's more than Bella has ever done) and wish for lots of babbbbbies would be okay if we didn't have to choose between her lack of personality or Bella's as our women (or Alice...who likes shopping! And party planning And Esme...who is motherly! And Bella's mother, who is such a freeeeeeeeee spirit! But it's okay because the last two don't matter to the story in any way.)
I enjoyed the secondary character's back stories most (though for all I know they're just Anne Rice lite) and I cannot for the life of me figure out why Edward and Bella are supposed to be most worthy of our attention. It's "Titanic"a ll over again, oh well, look at this tragic human drama being played out, how horrible and gr -- "JACKROSEROSEJACKROSEJACK!"
Except that it's much worse to read that in book form. Seriously, many of us have been young and vaguely obsessive about a crush (I mean, I mean, truuuue loooove) but there is a reason my journal entries at age 12 would not make a good book.Fawning over one person is NOT interesting and it never will be -- especially when your hero and heroine don't even have a personality beyond love -- it's basically two-person navel gazing.
I am going to edge away and go back to reading "The Ghost Road" -- so as to remind myself that ladies can write good books.
P.S. I will say this for the author, she picks pretty cool names for her characters. Or maybe I just have always felt -- ever since I saw Citizen Fish who have a member with said name -- that Jasper is a totally sweet name.
Yes, basically write the book about Jasper, Carlisle, and Alice before she turned out to be much lamer and duller than I thought at first.
P.P.S. Seriously -- SPOILER ALERT -- how the fuck did we have all that build up, and no clash of the titans at the end of the last book? No deaths of "well beloved" "characters"? J.K. Rowling had the decency to kill off some of my favorite characters, and I will always love/hate her for that.
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The artist I showed you earlier did exactly that.
Comic (http://whitedog1.deviantart.com/gallery/#twilight-high-tide)
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Lucy, go get your hands on some Charlotte Perkins Gilmore.
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Yet another picture I would +1/QFT if it didn't break my post apart.
This thread is here to remind people what kind of douches they are to like the series. Or, at the very least, a repository of people who can make fun of it without being subject to bad grammar, fangirl-squeeing and the like.
Actually, no, it really isn't. Or at least, it was never really intended to be. If it were, I'd be actively ashamed of my participation in it. I'm not a fan of the series but making people feel like they're douchebags is definitely not a goal.
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The Yellow Wallpaper?
I have read part of it. My friend read some of it at a coffee house thing, and was so good that she freaked people out. I was sorry I missed that.
I will read it. Yes, sometimes it annoys me, because I am a female who wants to write books, that female readers and writers have this horrible reputation that so often is justified. (I have gotten the awkward compliment that my writing is masculine -- meaning that I have a strong voice and a confident style. Which is great, except my writing being female would mean...that I am Stephenie Meyer?) When I was 15 I loved George Orwell. I still love George Orwell. I don't like to be a snob about other people, but when I was younger I found it sort of intensely alienating that my peers were into a whole bunch of shit. Sometime I wasn't trying to be cooler than thou (though lord knows I was) but I was honestly interested in things that nobody else my age was, and that made bonding with peers somewhat tricky.
Now I don't care as much. But it still puzzles me -- the "Twilight" obsession type thing*s. And there's something intensely depressing about older women swooning over it. Kind of freaks me out in a romance novel reading housewife sort of a way. (I go to an all-women's college and in the coffee shop is a paperback rack to leave or take a book, and it is almost entirely romance novels! Somebody -- hopefully the sweet girl who works there -- left a note begging people to leave better books.)
(* Have been reading Pat Barker's "Regeneration" trilogy lately. The first one is one of my favorite books of all time... Fuck Edward, I have a crush on fictionalized WWI poets!)
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I actually, I meant Herland.
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Actually, no, it really isn't. Or at least, it was never really intended to be. If it were, I'd be actively ashamed of my participation in it. I'm not a fan of the series but making people feel like they're douchebags is definitely not a goal.
Which is why I can fall back on the phrase "at the very least etc." so that I don't sound too much like a hateful prick.
I will read it. Yes, sometimes it annoys me, because I am a female who wants to write books, that female readers and writers have this horrible reputation that so often is justified. (I have gotten the awkward compliment that my writing is masculine -- meaning that I have a strong voice and a confident style.
Dear child, if I were in your position of being a good female writer and being told to have a masculine write, I would punch them in the face for being so bigoted. Granted, there is a degree of justification for a relationship between some female writers and absolutely shit literature, given what we've talked about in this thread, but there are so many good writers who are shadowed by other loud, flamboyantly horrible authors. It'll be that way until the end of time.
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That is not strictly a feminine thing.
This is not me trying to start a battle of the sexes in this thread that is already such a dead horse, but there are more bad writers than good writers period. It's not a male writer/female writer thing.
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So aparently Chris Weitz (the man who made an awesome Golden Compass movie before New Line shit all over his script) is directing "New Moon"
Did not see that one coming.
On another note, I was bored and watched the making-of documentary on the Twilight DVD the other day. The director of that one, Cathrine Hardwicke; my god was I the only one who wanted to strangle that woman after listening to her rave about what an awesome job she did making the Twilight movie? Ugh.