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Fun Stuff => CLIKC => Topic started by: Johnny C on 01 Dec 2008, 00:22
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oh my god
http://kotaku.com/5100159/black-mesa-trailer-is-some-hot-shit
For those of you who haven't been following its development, this is the fan-made remake/reimagining of the original Half-Life in the Source Engine. Not like HL:S where they just tossed in the water effects and new skyboxes, but literally work done from the ground up. Here are some images that say more than I ever could. And keep in mind that some of them are two years old and have undergone considerable changes since. I'll give you time to put something underneath your jaw to catch it.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4456/bm2vi5.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm2vi5.jpg)
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3783/bm3yy4.th.jpg) (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm3yy4.jpg)
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5779/bm4fd7.th.jpg) (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm4fd7.jpg)
(http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2886/bm5mv9.th.jpg) (http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm5mv9.jpg)
(http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9117/bm6gv8.th.jpg) (http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm6gv8.jpg)
(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/559/bm7sv7.th.jpg) (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm7sv7.jpg)
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2452/bm8uk9.th.jpg) (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm8uk9.jpg)
(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3039/bm9uz1.th.jpg) (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm9uz1.jpg)
(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7716/bm10lp2.th.jpg) (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm10lp2.jpg)
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9045/bm11pw8.th.jpg) (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm11pw8.jpg)
(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/585/bm12ak9.th.jpg) (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm12ak9.jpg)
(http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2331/bm13gj7.th.jpg) (http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm13gj7.jpg)
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9264/bm14ji8.th.jpg) (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm14ji8.jpg)
(http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/8537/bm15pg8.th.jpg) (http://img123.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm15pg8.jpg)
Check out their site here (http://www.blackmesasource.com/) for more information.
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Nice to see it coming along so well. Looking forward to it next year.
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My chin was on my fist. That was a lucky co-incidence, otherwise I would have dislocated it. That must be on the highest of high settings, because that is the most detailed in-engine stuff I have seen. I think the last panorama was a photo, it doesn't look like CG normally looks.
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They don't seem to have public progress reports from what I can see, so it's firmly in the "I'll believe it when I play it" category. Another (less ambitious, actually) fan project I was following, the KOTOR2 Restoration mod, seemed directly headed for a release (there are currently 34 bugs left to iron out, 889 already resolved) but the project lead abruptly dropped out and it's pretty much dead in the water. Fan mods are never a sure shot.
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Well, some people haven't played the original. Some people love the game enough that a graphically-updated version is their wet dream (though the change in physics might make it too different). I'd download it, I've played the game through once, except for the nihilanth. (final boss, right?) I jumped in his head, started shooting with rockets or gluon gun, but he would shoot me through his own head and I wouldn't be able to dodge, because it is coming out of the goddamn ground- er... brain. Honestly, if I could get it to run smoothly at anything close to that framerate, I would download it just for the eyecandy.
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linear
This word, it does not mean what you think it means.
(HL2 is no more or less linear than HL1 was, it just feels bigger and more open, because of the more abundant outdoor environs and the driving sequences. But if you play through HL2 twice, no matter what you do differently the second time around you'll see the same locations and the same scripted sequences in the same order. The word "non-linear" has been bandied about as shorthand for "open world" but that is incorrect usage, as most open world games only give the illusion of an unstructured narrative or, more commonly, they feature a lot of exploration. But even if you can take as much time as you want getting from point A to point B, you're still eventually wrangled into the progression the game has set out for you.)
Also I disagree with you in that the only part of HL2 / the episodes I thought was any good was Episode 2, in which they stepped up their narrative game a bit. HL2 had a lot of samey combat (death squads or headcrabs, choose one), City 17 was a bland and uninteresting setting, it had a bland and uninteresting villain, the ending sucked and it was far too long. I don't remember a single thing about Episode 1, except maybe being frustrated and bored by the headcrab elevator sequence. I liked HL1 because it was groundbreaking, more or less, for its time (that System Shock had used a lot of the same techniques first 4 years earlier was insignificant, as that game was not popular amongst the mountain dew set). Nothing happened in the first 20 minutes of the game except (quite effective) atmosphere building, something that was unheard of back then. The setting was vast and interesting and spooky, and the enemy variety was better. When Half-Life 2 came out all I remember feeling was annoyance that Valve had decided to incorporate Bungie's lengthy vehicular transportation and combat sequences into their game, except instead of fighting enemy armor in a low-gravity environment you were gliding over endless rivers of toxic waste and fighting the aliens from Starship Troopers.
Basically I'd challenge anybody to come up with something as creative as the entire tentacle monster level in HL1 that came out of HL2. There isn't anything that comes close. The gravity gun was fun (launching cinder blocks at people never gets old) but the puzzles it was used in were never anything more than entirely straightforward.
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It has a release date now? HELL. YES. Been waiting ages for this. And it looks fantastic!
I wouldn't say it's for those who haven't played the original. It's basically for anyone who was disappointed with Half Life: Source. Which would be most people. If you're going to update a game and only add physics and water effects, you might as well not bother. This is what we wanted from HL:S. It's what it should have been.
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I suppose "2009" could qualify as a release date.
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I suppose "2009" could qualify as a release date.
Compared to Starcraft 2, it's a godsend.
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Black Mesa Forever
Hasn't this been in production for like 5 years?
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This looks good! I hope it actually does come out.
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Okay, neither of those points are related to Black Mesa but I feel like I should point out that I didn't say HL2 was non-linear and that linear is an acceptable piece of video game terminology because you know exactly what I mean when I use it.
It's an acceptable term, you were just not using it in a way that made sense. Usually a "X makes Y look Z" statement is made when X and Y are contrasted to some degree, they have some difference such that the properties of one throw its differences to the other into sharp relief ("McDonald's makes a TV dinner look like fine dining", "Sarah Palin makes GW Bush look like Stephen Hawking", etc. etc.). What confused me about your statement (I isolated the word "linear" but the sentence I was reacting to was "I loved HL when I played it a decade or so ago but HL2 and other recent games make it seem very linear and old-fashioned by comparison") was that specifically where linearity was concerned the two games are quite alike. Saying that playing Half-Life 2 makes Half-Life 1 look linear is like saying my black shirt makes your black shirt look positively black.
If you want to have the HL versus HL2 debate, start a thread or bump an old one. I will be conspicuous by my absence.
I'm pretty sure somebody already came in here and started talking about how much better of a game HL2 was than HL1 and accusing people of deluding themselves into preferring an inferior game. If you want to just drop an opinion and let it lie that's your prerogative but if you're going to do that don't piss and moan when other people start doing the same.
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I know a guy who was doing a HL1 mod for "Return to black mesa" or something but this looks tons better. Loads of people are doing black mesa shiz but the only difference is this dude was doing it pre HL2 :/
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The team responsible for this project is apparently doing a "re-imagining" and are very adamant that they are working to redesign and ideally improve the game. I'm not sure what that means in terms of gameplay, though.
The other thing is that the map layout is the same but the design is completely overhauled. If you look at the screens from the first game in the corner and then the in-progress screenshots the difference is honestly night and day. It's a chance to play the game in a world that looks, sounds and feels lived in.
Media related to Xen exists only in the form of concept art but if the effort they're putting into the facility's redesign is any indication then it'll probably blow minds when it's finally revealed.
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Man, this makes me wish I had an up-to-date computer.
God damnit, Johnny.
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Well, to be fair, that's usually about all I need as an excuse to replay a classic. Like, I agree that HL2 was better in practically every respect, but I also love the old game and a fresh coat of pain is just enough to make it worth revisiting, despite having played it through more than half a dozen times not including the expansions. I also realize however that I'm in the minority there, so really I want it for very selfish and not business smart reaons.
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I have a confession to make: I've never played Half-Life.
OK, I played a couple of levels (probably the demo) but no more than that. Playing a version that looks shiny rather than one that looks like 1998? Sounds amazing. I can totally get behind playing old games with shiny new graphics, especially when they are as shiny as this one.
(Especially the System Shocks. Someone remake these, please.)
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Media related to Xen exists only in the form of concept art but if the effort they're putting into the facility's redesign is any indication then it'll probably blow minds when it's finally revealed.
Xen? Oh... just imagine what Xen is going to look like if it lives up to the graphics we have seen. I'm going to need to wear a neck brace.
The mention of the uplink demo makes me wonder if they are going to include those levels in their re-imagining. They were originally going to be in the game, but they got cut out for some reason.
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I hated HL mainly because I played a few hundred hours of CS:S before HL2 then bought 1.6 and played that lots then bought hl1 and completed it.
I kinda did it all in reverse, playing CS:S then HL2 means you will be frustrated at how shit the weapons are. I want an awp and a deagle, I could have completed that game in 20 minutes using only 6 bullets or some shit seriously. HL2 is a waste of the source engine because ALL THE GUNS SUCK.
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You mean because it has some semblance of balance? A 1 hit kill gun is never a good idea for any game.
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I disagree. Rocket launchers are fun in Unreal, and they get a one hit kill on a direct hit without additional health or armor. And the Quake 3 railgun doesn't seem bad, as far as I can tell, because if you miss, the guy can probably run across the map and gauntlet kill you before it fires another shot.
Comparing guns between games is ridiculous, you can say that you like a different style better, but if you had an AWP and Deagle in HL2, first off, you would run out of ammo quick (especially in Ravenholm or the bit right after, with the endless headcrabs), and then have to bunny-hop towards the swarms of combine with your crowbar out, and there is no right-click on the crowbar. And if you had an AWP, why couldn't they? I would get annoyed if a bunch of combine had AWPs, even with their poor aim, one of them is likely to hit.
And maybe even if you did have them, the combine have some sort of armor that is especially effective against human-made firearms, remember how quickly they took over the world. "Thog angry! Thog kill Saber-tooth tiger one hit with spear! Why it not kill rolly thing with treads and big nose?"
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Yeah that's why inststagib UT/Warsow/Quake is so unpopular... oh wait-
Naw I just like AWP's, I'd settle for an AK or colt. Just not a shitty inaccurate spray full auto gun with a tiny clip. I was being a bit "enthusiastic" about the effectiveness of the weapons, I would not get far with one awp clip but with as much ammo as you can get in HL games... I just like guns to fire BULLETS instead of grapes/corn/light etc.
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In that case, it'd probably make sense to stop playing sci-fi games set in the future.
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Hey, doesn't that bolt crossbow do pretty much 1-hit kills?
Anyway, I think your problem is that you're not aiming for the head. You tend to kill more people with less bullets that way.
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This is a weird project to me. I loved HL when I played it a decade or so ago but HL2 and other recent games make it seem very linear and old-fashioned by comparison. The graphics don't look radically different from Source and I don't really understand why people would replay HL again when presumably everyone out there has probably played it through several times over the last ten years. Frankly, I've been through Black Mesa about six times including Blue Shift and Opposing Force. I would assume people who haven't played HL before have played some recent FPS/RPG games which would make the gameplay itself seem slightly linear so I really don't know who this mod is for.
I still feel like people are experiencing a HL2 hangover of sorts. We're at the phase where people are jaded by the overwhelming brilliance of the second part of this saga and nostalgia for the original game is maybe just nostalgia from when we were all younger and a lot easier to impress. HL2 was a better game in every sense of the word and the episodic content was also ace. Don't get me wrong, HL was the best game ever ten years ago and it's still up there. I just don't get who this game is for.
It's already been addressed, but mostly people who haven't done HL before, or people who wanna do it again (and who wouldn't?) That said, the BM:S team seem to be making numerous changes to the original game. Personally, I want to see how they handle the assassins - if Valve could give you a bunch of OH SHIT OH SHIT moments in Ravenholm on hard where you're surrounded by fast screamy zombies while dodging poison headcrabs, I'll bet they're gonna make some freaky shit with lighting and sound. Hell, the damned assassins were already freaky to begin with; the little plinkplink from their pistol then them running off, then complete silence... whee!
But Black Mesa: Souce has been in development for a long damned time now, and it'd be nice if they didn't play their cards so close to their vest - been several times where I was wondering if anything was happening, simply from an utter lack of news.
ot;
Nodaisho, I don't remember rocket launchers ever being one-shot kills in any version of UT - they do about 80-85 in UT2k4, IIRC. Only guaranteed one-shot kill on someone with no armor and 100 HP is a sniper weapon headshot (130 or 140), close-range flak cannon (easily 120-210), or a near-direct hit with a flak ball (as in right next to them, NOT on them; 140-230.) I'm not sure about Unreal's eightball launcher, but most people were playing Quake and Quake II back then, anyway.
I kinda did it all in reverse, playing CS:S then HL2 means you will be frustrated at how shit the weapons are. I want an awp and a deagle, I could have completed that game in 20 minutes using only 6 bullets or some shit seriously. HL2 is a waste of the source engine because ALL THE GUNS SUCK.
Pretty much, yeah. The HL2 version of the USP is terrible, and the magnum just feels really inaccurate for some reason. The MP7 is damned near worthless on anything except CPs and zombies (for laughs, try killing a hunter with it on hard; it takes more than 200 rounds), and the pulse rifle runs out of ammo too fast. The crossbow and LAW are both pretty good, but ammo for both is rare. The nades... don't like em; I like CS's rubber bouncy grenades, even if they aren't particularly realistic. Vanilla HL2's saving grace is the shotgun - ammo is plentiful, and you can reliably kill most anything with it, even hunters (though the car or gravity gun are much more efficient.)
Also:
Re-playing a game which you've already played because now the graphics are a bit nicer is an experience of limited value. Since you already know the plot, up to and including the scripted events, and you also know pretty much what is going to happen next, it's not really going to be a particularly intense gaming experience like the original game was.
You need to go replay the Surface Tension chapter, on Hard. It was still pretty tense even last year, even comparing it to Ravenholm, the finale of Episode Two (on Hard, playing for no lost buildings), and league-level Bombing Run matches on UT2k4 :P
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yeah, i'm pretty psyched about it coming out. I'm also stoked for HL2: E3 (the half-life story line is one of my favorites... it's definately the best fps story-line that i've come across)
i have to agree with ptommydski, hl2 was a better game in every sense of the word, but to really get the full experience of the the games you have to play the origional HL. i know plenty of people who have played hl 2 and have never played HL (which is blasphemy and i yell at them every time they talk about a HL game. there's nothing wrong with playing it over and over again. i play each game over when a new game (based on the story line) comes out. Yeah the physics and stuffs are much better and junk, and HL was beyond it's time when it came out 10 years ago, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they story is amazing. it's just like re-reading a book (or an online comic *cough*).
IMO, the half-life games are aimed at a wide audience (more money for the win?) people who enjoy FPS love the game, as well as those who enjoy games that startle them at times, and those who enjoy awesome story-lines. And for those who spend time making/contributing to making games, it's amazing to go through it and be like "omg, the textures are awesome" or "holy crap, the cinematic physics are beyond amazing" or "jesus balls, that cutscene/modeling/animating was joygasmic". I know I did that the first time I played HL 2: Episode 2 (which is the first game that implimented the cinematic physics... and the first HL game that came out since I started college).
Half-life 2: episode 3 is supposedly coming out 2010 (which makes me sad i have to wait another 1-2 years for it to come out). And I will definately be waiting in line for it to come out.
/wall of text
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Yeah, Valve picked up Adam Foster of MINERVA fame and put him to work on Ep3. It's gonna be glorious.
For those of you who haven't done so already, go pick up the MINERVA: Metastasis mod (requires HL2 and Ep1) to see just how good maps can be. Note how efficiently he makes use of vertical space, making a map seem much more expansive than it really is, which contributes to significantly shortened load times (and is much more realistic to boot.)
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Maybe the enemies were already damaged, I just noticed that in UT, if I got a direct hit, it more often than not, got them one hit, same in UT3. Thinking about it, in 2k3 and 2k4, where I tended to play with more good people and less bots (good not being annoyingly way out of my league like on '99), it usually took two, but then again, those people usually take the time to get health power ups. I didn't play much of the original unreal, I was bored by it.
I find the USP good for headshots. I usually save it for zombes, since they move slowly. Can't stand the alternate fire, I can never get it to work. I use the MP7 on most combine, I find that firing at their head takes them out pretty quickly, even at longer range. I do wish that the pulse rifle could carry more ammo, it was very nice in EP1 shooting at combine on top of buildings. I have no problem with magnum accuracy, I use it with the built-in zoom to snipe when I am not using the crossbow. Of course, ammo for that is so rare I forget to use it most of the time, I end up only using it after I noticed that I am full and there is more. I like the grenades more than CS's, probably largely due to the bit where they aren't party favors. There is a reason why nade level takes forever to beat on gungame.
Minerva is indeed awesome. I was really amazed by how small the area you are in is, when you look at it in noclip, because it uses it so well, it feels huge. I wonder if they are going to have him working on EP3, he could really bring a lot to the borealis.
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Not that Valve really needs any more talented level designers. Half the office is covered in map revisions printed and scattered on the floor.
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Besides the hospital in ep1 and the ep2 finale, I think the ep1 citizen shuffle is my favorite section of HL2, simply because infinite LAW ammo combined with lots of overwatch = ragdoll fun. Roadkilling hunters is fun, but launching some poor CP halfway across the map is better :)
As for UT3, I haven't played it yet. Bastards took out bombing run, so they can blow me. I didn't use the rocket launcher much in 2k4, sticking primarily to the flak cannon, shock rifle (best gun in any shooter ever), and either the link gun or twin assault rifles for mopping up. I've faced off against some goddamned rocket wizards whose accuracy bordered on precognition, but I still don't see how rockets can possibly beat punting people off bridges in BR-BridgeOfFate for sheer fun factor. Shock Rifle + Double Damage + Berserk = fun.
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Maybe, but honestly, I think his designs that he did himself are better than those of the original game. It still falls prey to the whole indestructable wooden barricade while you are armed with explosives, but most games do that, because otherwise it would be much faster to get about.
And Melodic, do you work for EA or for valve? I know EA publishes valve, so I guess you might end up going to their office once in a while, but it seems like you know a lot about them.
I loved the hospital bit, a lot of it made me feel like I was in hardboiled, minus some awesomeness. It had some scary bits as well, which takes skill to do without feeling cheap.
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Despite never having played the original Half-Life, I don't quite care too much about this one. I will admit that it looks nice, but I don't see myself ever playing it.
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I work for EA Burnaby, but I have several friends at Valve down in Seattle and we both keep an open-door policy.
I liked MINERVA.
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Ah, okay.
Oh god, I just saw surface tension mentioned. That part at the dam seemed impossible when I came up against it. I don't remember how I did it. You know what that reminded me of, though. Icthyosaurs. After playing HL, I was scared shitless of being in water in any game.
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Ah, okay.
Oh god, I just saw surface tension mentioned. That part at the dam seemed impossible when I came up against it. I don't remember how I did it. You know what that reminded me of, though. Icthyosaurs. After playing HL, I was scared shitless of being in water in any game.
I was disappointed that they weren't present in HL2 beyond the cameo at the beginning. No leeches, either... damned pests.
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fuck yeah I've always wanted to play a game i've played dozens of times before again
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Apparently you wanted to play it again dozens of times, why not once more, with shininess?
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A free graphics upgrade is always welcome.
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I'm gonna reference this thread any time anyone makes the "we don't care about graphics" argument in the future. :wink:
Graphics are less important than gameplay, but that doesn't mean I don't want a pretty game, unless I particularly like an older graphics style.
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Screw you Tommy, Street Fighter II HD is gonna kick ass.
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No leeches, either... damned pests.
I guess you never waded into the water in any of the beach sections in Half-Life 2, huh?
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Not intentionally, no. Well, not unless I was using rollermines as beachballs or seeing if the dune buggy would float (it doesn't.)
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Screw you Tommy, Street Fighter II HD is gonna kick ass.
Looks crap, demo was crap. luckily SFIV has one from strength to strength on the awesome-o-meter.
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happy april everybody :)
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At this point even the fan conversions operate on Valve Time.
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At this point even the fan conversions operate on Valve Time.
Dammit Facebook. I was trying to click the like button...
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Is it too late to mentions that SF2T:HDR is fantastic, but the HD part of it has like nothing to do with why that is?
HDR is so good.
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"Maybe Black Mesa. That was a joke, haha, fat chance."
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12 days