THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => CHATTER => Topic started by: Spluff on 31 Jan 2009, 14:29
-
Showcasing the human race's astounding lack of preparation for the inevitable zombie invasion, signs of the apocalypse have been dismissed as a 'prank', giving those who were foolish enough to brush off the warnings a cheap laugh - whilst the wiser and more knowledgeable of us are now battened down in our super secret anti zombie bunkers with enough food and weaponry to survive for many years, only to emerge in what will hopefully be a faithful recreation of either Mad Max or Fallout 3.
Whether these people are still laughing when their fatal mistake causes them to be eaten by zombies remains to be seen.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/zombiesign2.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/zombiesign1.jpg)
http://news.aol.com/article/zombie-road-signs-attack-austin-texas/322482
-
Its only the Nazi zombie one that would have had me still going in to work, otherwise I would have believed them.
-
Man that is crazy, everyone knows that there is no where to run to.
-
Bullpies, I know at least 3 locations I can flee to in case of zombie attack.
-
It’s been 2 weeks since this whole thing started.
It all started with a tanker accident. It was all over the news. Everyone thought it was just another oil spill. There were plenty of volunteers. Plenty of people wanting to help the poor defenseless animals. Plenty of victims. Within hours of the tanker accident, it started happening. The animals had gone crazy, they were scratching and biting the clean up volunteers. They said that it was an adverse effect to whatever was in that tanker.
Rescue workers were still trying to get the crew out of the ship. They could hear screaming inside. Screams to open the doors. But that’s when it all went to hell. As soon as they cut the door out.
There was 6 minutes of broadcast before it went silent. 6 minutes of screaming and agony. The ship crew attacked the rescue workers like rabid baboons. Breaking bones and tearing flesh. The people on the shore weren’t fairing any better. Those that had been attacked by animals were attacking everyone else. It was worse than any war zone report, it was sheer brutality, and yet the broadcast still went on for 6 minutes. 6 minutes and then blank faces. Nobody could explain what was happening. They tried to continue with regular news, the economy, the weather, a cute human interest story, but they couldn’t make us unsee what we saw.
I tried to continue with my regular existence but every time I switched on the news or walked by a news stand it was there. This big mystery. They had some explanations, some kind of infection, brain parasites, but it didn’t matter. It wasn’t an infection we were afraid of, it was them.
4 days after the initial report, a state of emergency was raised. And yet we’d all seen this before. Every zombie movie ever. People didn’t know who to trust. People were stockpiling food and weapons. Some tried to flee but it seems every zombie movie was right. They didn’t make it. 3 days later they arrived in my town.
I expected moans, shuffling corpses, dismemberment, but that’s where the movies lied. They ran through the streets, screaming. I remember running to my front door as fast as I could, locking, barricading, doing anything to make sure it would stay shut, and then I headed for the window. I was on the second story and I could see the carnage. They were unstoppable. They were aware.
A group of them made there way through a building across the street. They jumped straight through plate glass windows. Even the shards slicing through them made no difference, they just kept coming. My barricade wasn’t going to hold. I rushed around my flat, grabbing supplies and jamming them into the most secure room of the flat. I went back for one last look across the street, and I wish I hadn’t. In a second story window, my face met one of theirs. They knew where I was. I quickly dashed into the room and locked the door.
I don’t have any kind of panic room, or a secure basement, so the safest place I could think of was my bathroom. No windows, one door with a lock. I had filled my sink and bathtub full of water, So I could stay for a while. So I sat there in the dark room, with the distant screams in my ears.
I began to feel like I may have over-reacted, it had been 2 hours and no sign of them. It actually got quieter and I thought they had moved on. Maybe I could leave the room, get to the kitchen. Grab more food to wait it out. A crash came from the front door. The sound of someone running full force into the door and knocking down the barrier behind it. There was a couple more crashes before I knew they were inside. Rapid footsteps moving around the flat, a couple screams and then a bang on the wall beside me. My eyes were open to their widest, even in the pitch black darkness of the room. Another bang, and another. They knew I was there and they knew I was scared.
This was the zombie nightmare I had been expecting from the start. I had nowhere to run. There was only so much time before they would break in. I sat with my back to the door, hoping my extra weight would make it harder for them to get in. And then it got worse.
“why don’t you open the door?”
A voice on the opposite side of the door. No screams or moans, just a quiet, whispery voice. And then more of them.
“we’ve come for you.”
“you’ll be happier if you open the door”
“it’s not so bad…”
The whispery voices, became a cacophony of noise trying to persuade me, to break me, to fool me. I had heard that the moaning of zombies would drive people insane but this was worse, a siren call. I sat in the darkness and hoped and prayed that they’d get bored. But they don’t get bored and they don’t leave. I managed to use the mirror to peak under the door, only to be greeted by horrible unblinking eyes, blood smeared faces, screams and more horrible whispers. That was two days ago…
I don’t know what to do anymore… maybe it won’t be so bad…
-
My friends all think I'm crazy for wanting to buy a Glock .357, but they have no idea how serious this threat is.
-
Post of the year.
-
As a lurker/poster at Zombie Squad, America's Premier Mobile Cadaver Suppression Task Force, I can safely say that I and every level of membership of Zombie Squad is prepared at some level for the impending Zombie Apocalypse.
Admittedly, some of us are more prepared than others.
I myself consider myself an Armorer and a Medic. I have a BoB, BoV, BoL, and I can instruct in those and other cool acronyms. I know CPR, PALS, ACLS, PHTLS, AMLS, and a whole bunch of other letters put together in funny ways. I know how to work on an AR-15, M-16, M-14, SU-16, Sub-2000, G17, G19, G26, G34, G37, P-11, PF-9, 24/7, 10/22, and a 1974 Pinto. I can consistently my shot from a rifle at 50 yards with a quarter, and have enough ammunition to comfortably supply a rabid platoon of hyenas if they're not too choosy as to caliber.
the Zeds don't scare me; I'm an expert -- we talk about this on Teh Intarweb!
Put the spotlight on 'em, and as Great Teacher Largo from Megatokyo says: ""GO FOR T3H H3DZ"
Now if you'll excuse me, "I GOTTA PICK UP A ZILL4 AND MORE DUCT TAPE"
S
-
Every day it just keeps on getting worse, the things are attacking us, even here, even here where we thought we were safe. They surround us, thousands upon thousands, maws open, hands outstreched in a vile parody of an embrace.
But we are humans, we are not going gently into this dark night. They tried to break through the doors again, the faster ones, the ones that lead them they came first, running up the closed gates and whispering, twelve of them died in 10 seconds. Then the slow ones came, a rushing horde of anger and moaning, they died too but we could afford to pick our shots, we thought that they were trying to build a ramp up to the ramparts with the dead. They hadn't counted on some well placed molotovs.
We have enough food to last for 3 months, after that I don't know, london has already fallen, 9 million people all of them dead and all of them making their way to us. I have heard nothing from the three other forts that make up the route, the lights are going out all over Europe and unlike our grandparents, who thought they would not be lit in their lifetime, these will simply never be lit.
Only so much can be done, already we have killed thousands, with booby traps, with staves, with bullets and with our bare hands if neccesary. Its not enough, nothing like enough. Then night falls and the whispering begins the tempting offers of sweet oblivion and peace. I saw a little girl, no older than 12 jump from the walls screaming to parents who were holding their hands up to her, I could not see what happened to her in the dark night, but the softest of sighs. I haven't told anyone, I don't think she was even missed.
Worry is set up over all of us like a miasma, too much too soon and there is no hope, how can we kill all of them? Forays into the wilderness have been met with gutted patrols and stronger whispers.
I will volunteer for the next patrol, and hope against hope that we can survive this assault on humanity.
Vae Victus- Woe to the vanquished
-
The only glock I would be using is this one (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BYYq4QI3MxQ).
-
My friends all think I'm crazy for wanting to buy a Glock .357, but they have no idea how serious this threat is.
I think you are pretty crazy too. Glock doesn't have .357 caliber varieties.
G31, 32, 33. Don't worry though, he's still crazy.
-
mhmmm, you want a hunting rifle and a shaolin spade.
-
Jens are you saying that my dick is not a lethal weapon.
-
Man do you even know the ballistic capabilities of a Glock 31? If it can take out a black bear with a headshot, it can take out any punk bitch zombie.
-
Bullpies, I know at least 3 locations I can flee to in case of zombie attack.
Tell us. Tell us where they are.
Teeeeeeeeeeelllllll uuuuuuuusssssss.
-
I completely just imagined Harry outside of Cory's bathroom going "Open the dooooor. It won't be so baaaad".
-
I don't want to, but the voices are so pervasive.
No chance deadhead.
-
The problem with a pistol is that it isn't a rifle. The ammo is also pretty heavy, as ammo goes. The lack of a stock is a problem, and the short sight radius is as well. Unless you are Todd Jarrett or Jerry Miculek, grab a rifle. But you know what? They would go for a rifle first, as well.
I have been convinced that the best weapon for the zombocalypse is an AKS-74U (or semi-auto clone). Actually, the best weapon for the zombocalypse would be an orbital nuke, that is the only way to make sure, but I would have difficulties finding an orbital nuke.
A hunting rifle (depending on the caliber) uses larger rounds than you need, weighs more than you need it to weigh, and the bolt action is not an advantage, no matter what Max Brooks says. Unless you are at extremely long ranges, but if that is the case, you probably don't need to be shooting the zombie. The AKS-74U is light, less than 6 pounds empty, all steel and wood, ammo is all over the place (in the US, and other places with relatively lax gun laws), but not in high demand, because everyone "knows" that for combat, 5.56 is better. It doesn't matter when you have to get headshots anyway, though. Ammo is lightweight, the gun is accurate enough to get headshots out to about 200 meters or yards, and the tube steel stock is capable of bashing heads in better than a polymer stock. Not as good as an old world-war vintage rifle for bashing, but that would be much heavier, use heavier ammo, might be bolt action, and would have less ammo capacity.
For a hand-to-hand weapon, I'd want something small, blunt, and heavy. Maybe a hatchet of some sort, with something over the blade? Then you would be able to cut wood, skin and butcher animals if necessary, and have a nice back-up weapon as well, if you have screwed up and lost your gun.
What I would want most, though, is a bunker with a backup generator, a backup backup generator, a garden, solar panels, wind turbines, truly ridiculous amounts of ammo, enough MREs to feed a dozen people for a few years, enough water to last for years (possibly an underground water source? Would need some sort of filtration method to avoid virus contamination), possibly a big tank of diesel (how long does diesel last? I know gas only lasts 6 months before it starts to run very dirty) and air scrubbers.
edit: Oh, and I forgot another thing about the 74U. In case of nazi zombies, the 5.45 steelcore will go through their helmets like they weren't even there. So would most modern rifle rounds, but pistols would just make a gonging sound. Funny, but ineffective.
-
People are, "99100 percent sure it is not," viral marketing for Resident Evil 5.
-
Hand to hand, I'd like a solidly built machete. I think I'd probably try to hide out on one of the harbor islands close by. There's a wicked current running through Hull gut that would make it very difficult for any zombies to reach the island I have in mind.
-
My issue with a sharp object is the blood spatter, which would be greater than with a blunt object.
What about armor? I'm thinking chain mail and leather, possibly kevlar and a steel insert underneath in case of unfriendly living humans. Of course, anyone still surviving is probably pretty good at getting headshots by now, hopefully not so good when someone is shooting back.
I doubt it is marketing for RE5, the nazi zombie comment wouldn't make sense, and I think that hacking into road signs is a bit far across the legal line for a company to endorse for something that obvious.
-
It is clearly marketing for Dead Snow.
-
Yeah except there's that "hitting the fucking thing" deal. Have you ever actually fired a pistol?
When you are firing into a crowd of zombies, you would probably have to fire straight up into the sky to not hit something.
-
It is clearly marketing for Dead Snow.
I think I might want to watch that, the previews are pretty funny. Anyone notice someone grabbing a hammer, and then someone else grabbing a sickle in the arming up bit of the trailer?
I think the Nazi zombies bit is more likely to be referencing CoD5, though.
Patrick, remember that hitting isn't enough, you need to hit them in the head. And you don't want the .357 sig, anyway. Ammo is harder to find, it isn't noticeably more powerful than a 9mm, unless you (you all probably don't care about this technical stuff), which doesn't matter on non-living matter, anyway. Go for the 9mm or .40 version, those are the more popular ones, and the 9mm version has 33 round magazines, for when you really don't have time to spend that second and a half reloading.
-
The thing about the .357 coming out of a 5" barrel is that the longer barrel means greater muzzle velocity, and in this case it makes your impact force roughly the same as a .45 would be coming out of a more compact weapon at much shorter range.
Since I'm just working from the little passage Cartilage Head posted, it's unclear whether these zombies are undead, or whether they're just infected with parasites. He did mention that they were not only running, but that they were aware. That to me suggests a living enemy, since if you are undead you are probably a lot less able to move (rigor mortis and shit). If they're living and they're just infected by a parasite (or, like the film version of I Am Legend, an airborne vaccine gone horribly wrong), you have a much more fearsome target, but at the same time a much less hardy one.
The problem with a pistol is that it isn't a rifle. The ammo is also pretty heavy, as ammo goes. The lack of a stock is a problem, and the short sight radius is as well. Unless you are Todd Jarrett or Jerry Miculek, grab a rifle. But you know what? They would go for a rifle first, as well.
The thing about rifles is that they are (not pistols, lolol) much longer and therefore harder to whip out. Ideally, you would have both so that you could grab your pistol, start firing at random so that the impact of the bullets forces some of them to fall over backward (hence my preference of the relatively large caliber with high muzzle velocity), causing them to trip over each other, giving you a chance to run. Then as soon as you empty your mag, you'll hopefully have enough room to start running, pulling back the bolt of your rifle as you whip it out, and blind-firing behind you. Obviously, since the rifle is going to be your main weapon, you will have more ammo for that, but definitely keep a good stockpile of that pistol stuff handy.
-
Well, the thing is that power isn't necessarily important in wounding, with pistols it is the size of the wound channel that matters, with rifles it is argued over whether the hydrostatic shock actually has noticeable effect, and if it makes up for lack of permanent wound channel. The glock 31 only has a 4.5 inch barrel, the most common .45 has a 5 inch barrel in the standard model, with some 4 inch ones, and a few 3" models (there are reliability issues with most of them, which is why they aren't more popular). If they were immune to pain, the issue would be stopping them as quickly as possible, which would either mean crippling (spine severing? shotguns would be good for that.) or killing (headshot), rather than waiting for the bleeding to kill them. Normally, people stop when shot because it hurts like hell. When they don't, it goes very bad.
I would go with a 10mm, assuming I'm not a wimp and can handle the recoil, but would have my rifle out whenever I had the chance. The 74U is very small, less than 20" with the stock folded, and it doesn't extend more than 4 inches past your front hand. I would also go with carrying a round in the chamber and having the safety on for rifles as well as pistols, that allows one more round before reloading the first time, and there really isn't any danger of them going off, as long as the safety is on. Sure, have a pistol, but only as a back-up, for when you are in serious shit, but not quite bad enough to need to be going hand-to-hand. In case of the living, crazy, human zombies, I think I'd go with a Saiga-12K rather than the 74, with 10 round magazines of buckshot, it would make headshots easier, and the greater spread makes spine severing more likely as well, if you aim for center of mass (though then they will keep crawling at you, you'll have to stay away long enough for them to bleed out, or finish them).
-
bullets do not make you fly backwards when hit, contrary to popular hollywood method.
I'm not looking for flight, just enough to slow them down enough so that they get bumped into, losing their balance, causing them to trip over and cause a disturbance in the movement of the rest of the horde. That would buy enough time to get your rifle out and ready while you run.
-
pfffft
amateurs
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/rpg.jpg)
-
And, if they are too close for you to not get blown up too, just turn around and fire. Mmm, toasty.
Jens, that is a misleading link. The force from a handgun bullet is hundreds of foot-pounds, usually upwards of 300 (the caliber he mentioned is between 400 and 500, depending on loading). If it transferred all of that as a push, someone would get slowed down. The problem is that bullets don't do that, they put their energy into penetration rather than pushing.
-
Let's go back a second here to the pain theory, then. I just don't quite think I agree with the idea that they don't feel pain. If they are aware, to me that sounds like they've got sufficient neurological function to do just that. And given that they've got parasites affecting their instinctive reactions to make them attack any living thing to get the meat off of it, I would imagine that not only are their feeding instincts amplified, the neural mechanisms for their survival instincts would be sharpened as well.
Back to the forces in question with handguns: say you aim for the legs. Do you think that would be enough of a slowdown to make them trip up? If not, do you just aim in the general direction of their heads and empty the shit out of that pistol and hope one of them dies, causing the same domino effect?
-
Shooting one in the leg might cause it to slow, especially if you break the leg. This is assuming that they aren't so ridiculously tense that their muscles would prevent the leg front collapsing.
I assumed that they felt no pain, since he mentioned them going through the window and ignoring the glass they cut themselves on.
If one did fall, you would have to hope that he didn't just get trampled, rather than having them trip on him.
-
I'm a little bummed at the idea of not having a domino effect going on. Slowing them down would be
Idunno if that necessarily means they don't feel pain. The urge to feed is a powerful motivator, so I could imagine they could just ignore it for the duration of their hunt and worry later. Since they are aware zombies, it would be very helpful to figure out a way to trap one and study the specimen's psychology.
I wonder if it'd be a good idea to keep ingredients and materials for Works bombs around. Since they are aware, living beings and not undead, their eyes and other senses would be quite useful to them. Having drain cleaner exploding in their faces would damage sight and smell, and the incredibly loud bang a Works bomb gives off could serve as a sort of diversion. If you added nails or broken glass to the outside of your Works bomb somehow, it could possibly cut the zombies' skin enough to cause significant bleeding damage (here's where the armor plan would best come in, you don't want to take any chances), and maybe even poison some of them.
And Works drain cleaner and aluminum foil is also much more readily available than conventional warfare weapons, so stocking up during the incredibly tense, chaotic prelude to the attack would be loads easier than getting guns and ammo.
-
Are you seriously asking yourself if it is a good idea to keep the ingredients for a bomb around?
Of course it's a good idea.
-
Are we really going to start up another zombie thread? If this is the case, unlike the prior discussion I have read both The Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z, played both Dead Rising and Left 4 Dead, and me and all of my friends that I hang out with in real life who have their priorities straight have a plan for both escape and remaining stationary within our current hometown.
I don't agree entirely with all of Max Brooks guide, but I don't have it on hand so I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to really dive into this when I'm back in Maryland.
-
If we're gong to have a thread about zombies I would have thought that the done thing would be to revive an old one.
-
I don't think it was supposed to turn into the zombie thread again, it just did.
-
That thread was about undead zombies. These zombies are actually alive and aware (see: the hemocytes in the film version of I Am Legend, except it hasn't been clarified whether they are incapable of survival in sunlight) and are a much different threat, and no guide has been written for them.
-
Yeah, but at the same time we've covered both "slow" and "fast" zombies a la 28 Days later pretty extensively in that other thread as well. The ones from I am Legend were also hardly self-aware, I mean, the ones from the book were, but then the book was about vampires specifically, and the original Film adaptation The Last Man On Earth had the kind from the book that went self-aware enough to try and fight their own disease, but the "slow" vampires from that one actually went on to inspire George Romero's Night of the Living Dead which in turn revolutionized the Post apocalyptic and zombie movie genres, which up until recently the staple was primarily of the "slow" kind.
You following me?
-
The ones from I Am Legend are vampires goddammit.
-
In the film version, they were able to be killed (I love that phrase, it is a hell of an ability) by reg'lur ol' gunshot wounds, could feel pain, and were obviously bright enough to rebuild the same trap he used on them. I am using them as a model for right now.
-
The nazi zombies wouldn't be alive, would they? It doesn't say neo-nazi zombies. Or... wheelchair-riding nonagenarian zombies? We're doomed!
-
Rule 1. No automatic weapons. Even if they have a single shot capability, the temptation for many people, will be to open up on full auto and waste ammo.
Rule 2. Keep a secondary weapon. A pistol of some sort, a .22 is ideal, small caliber, light, accurate at the distance for which you will need it, and no where near as noisy as a 9mil or a .45 or the other more common calibers.
Rule 3. You need a melee weapon. There is no substitute for skull splitting or cracking power when it comes down to the crunch. A small metal club, or a mchete, or even some sore of customised fist weapon if you can get it.
Rule 4. Keep water. Rule of threes, 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.
Rule 5. Leather is your friend. It's light, and very difficult for teeth and fingernails to get through if you have the genuine article.
Rule 6. If you have to engage, do it from the nearest high ground, it provides a good vantage point, and zombies are poor climber, any high ground will do, even on top of an SUV.
Rule 7. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times.
Rule 8. Try to make the best use of your melee weapon, ammo will be hard to find in a post apocalyptic world.
Rule 9. The final rule, if it's shuffling and doesn't talk, shoot first and ask questions later.
Ideally in terms of primary weapons, I would recommend one of these 3
Gewehr-43
(http://users1.ml.mindenkilapja.hu/users/mts/uploads/Gewehr43.jpg)
M1 Garand
(http://www.neaca.com/images/Garand_Springfield_14623xx_.JPG)
SVT-40
(http://world.guns.ru/rifle/svt40r.jpg)
-
mhmmm, you want a hunting rifle and a shaolin spade.
I want to diffuse this right here.
If you're referring to this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Monk-Spade.jpg), then you are better off carrying a shovel. That is all that the monk's spade is. It does not have sharpenend ends, it is a long blunt object. Generally it is used in a swinging motion, and the sides are not sharp, they are thick and blunt. Even the end isn't that sharp, but you are better off with a machette, katana, basically any kind of slashing weapon is better than the monk's spade. My roommate owns one, I have seen the form that goes with it, there is very little slashing and a whole lot of swinging. If you want something that has a blade on the end and is still a polearm, a Quan Dao or Pudao is what you are looking for.
-
Is that bloody spade cited in the damn survivor guide or something (I've never read it)? Because it's silly how often it gets brought up. I hate how people always start pulling out "customized fist weapons" and shaolin spaces etc. when talking about melee weapons in general, actually. I mean, how many people here know weapon smiths and have actually trained with something? As long as you're going to go be swinging away at something like a clumsy oaf, you may as well take something that doubles as a useful tool rather than a one trick pony. I'd suggest a hooligan bar (http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_4832_paratech_lightweight_aluminum_handled_hooligan_bar_with_electroless_nickel_finish_standard_claw/). At least it'll give you some more help when trying to break into potential shelter.
-
Rule 1. No automatic weapons. Even if they have a single shot capability, the temptation for many people, will be to open up on full auto and waste ammo.
That right there is one that I have issue with. At least you didn't say use a manually-operated gun (pump, bolt, lever), because this is a matter more of training and discipline than effectiveness. If you could get your hands on them, two or three belt-fed automatics would be an absolute life-saver in case of a big horde, if you had a small angle. Have each person aim at a few inches different level, and sweep back and forth on that level as they fire.
As long as they can manage the recoil, that would cover all but the most extreme differences in height, allowing at least one of you to get a headshot on anyone that isn't a midget or Andre the Giant. Andre would be pulling himself towards you on his hands, due to having his spine severed by repeated sweeps, and the midget would be walking on corpses before long, making him tall enough to get shot without changing the field of fire. Alternately, have a fourth person taking shots at anyone still moving, or outside of the range of the fire. The main difficulty here is getting your hands on three belt-feds.
Rule 2. Keep a secondary weapon. A pistol of some sort, a .22 is ideal, small caliber, light, accurate at the distance for which you will need it, and no where near as noisy as a 9mil or a .45 or the other more common calibers.
.22s are good. Ammo is light, extremely common (it is frequently packaged in boxes of 500 or more), it is accurate as far as it will shoot (you can hit out to 200 meters with it, though holdover would be a pain, and I wouldn't trust it to punch a skull), small game can be hunted with it for food, but one thing about that bit bothers me.
Guns are loud. Period. Doesn't matter the caliber, they are loud. Get the supplies to make suppressors the first chance you get when you know the zombies are coming. The Anarchist's cookbook has a diagram of one, but that one is outdated, look on the internet. Find a way to attach them to your gun, if it doesn't have threading, improvise. It's even better if you have an integrally suppressed gun, but those aren't common, except among the most enthusiastic of gun collectors. Brits and most non-USers have the advantage here, actually, they don't have laws against suppressors (I believe they are sometimes called mufflers over there, like on a car). If you are in the US, get your hands on one or make one as soon as you can, if you live long enough to be charged with illegally making a class III firearm, you have already succeeded.
Rule 3. You need a melee weapon. There is no substitute for skull splitting or cracking power when it comes down to the crunch. A small metal club, or a mchete, or even some sore of customised fist weapon if you can get it.
Melee weapons are good, though your rifle's stock should be capable of doing the job, unless you have a nylon stock. What is a customized fist weapon? A gauntlet? Punch dagger? I like the idea of a gauntlet, but it would be hard to find, and probably a bit awkward to operate the rifle with it. Alex's Hooligan bar idea is a damn good one, I also like the machete, hatchet, or kukri (if you can find one), you will need to cut wood to survive when it gets cold, unless you are staying in a city. The aforementioned weapons also are more designed for placing the force of the impact in one place, making it more effective.
Rule 4. Keep water. Rule of threes, 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.
Rule 5. Leather is your friend. It's light, and very difficult for teeth and fingernails to get through if you have the genuine article.
Good rules, though you wouldn't be at your full capabilities for the last one (or even two) of those threes. Leather is very good, it doesn't matter if you look like a gay biker, the zombies won't care about how you look, just how difficult it is to get to your tasty flesh. If the zombies rely on sight, see if you can get some form of camouflage clothing over the leather, and learn how to use it well. A ghille suit would be even better, assuming you would be still, but those get hot as hell, and take a lot of work.
Rule 6. If you have to engage, do it from the nearest high ground, it provides a good vantage point, and zombies are poor climber, any high ground will do, even on top of an SUV.
This one, I'm assuming you mean if you aren't able to retreat while engaging, otherwise distance is your friend, it prevents you from being surrounded. If the zombies make sounds to attract others, though, take them out before they make a noise, if at all possible.
Rule 7. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times.
Rule 8. Try to make the best use of your melee weapon, ammo will be hard to find in a post apocalyptic world.
Rule 9. The final rule, if it's shuffling and doesn't talk, shoot first and ask questions later.
Pretty good rules here, rule 7 I agree with whole-heartedly, rule 8 I think largely depends on the person. I happen to know some people have ammunition stockpiles that would make Burt Gummer green with envy, and nice secluded houses, or friends with secluded houses, and trucks to carry all the ammo. Those people, who have hundreds of thousands of rounds, they are probably fine shooting everything. Everyone else, kill it without shooting when it won't put you in much danger. Rule 9, I would be hesitant about, but that is why I will end up bitten for being too nice of a guy.
-
Zombie games have skewed my vision on what a zombie apocalypse would be like. A rifle would work well at range, but in a post-apocalyptic world, you're not fighting zombies at range, them bitches are right up on you. Therefore fuck your rifles and handguns, I'm going with one of these. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhDPoVm74To&feature=related)
-
I am unsure of the reliability of the AA12, I'd rather have the Saiga-12. The reason I would go for a rifle is weight. Shotgun shells are heavy all get-out, at least an ounce, usually at least an ounce and a quarter of lead, for each shot, ignoring the powder, primer, wad, and case. Assuming you need a headshot, the zombie will be just as dead with one rifle round in it as a dozen balls of 00 buck. it is probably easier to get a headshot with a shotgun, but not very much easier. Some sort of reflex sight or red dot would make it easier as well, but I would be worried about batteries with most of them, I'd want something that didn't use batteries, maybe tritium, both on the iron sights of my pistol, irons of my rifle, and the glass on the rifle.
edit: Oh, if you were thinking the shaolin spade was something actually similar to a spade (I did), go for an entrenching tool. Works as a shovel, a blunt instrument, and a sharp weapon.
-
yeah, but the shaolin spade is lighter, with longer reach and you can use both ends on the living dead.
Also if its fast zombies your up against? Head for the sea and live on an oil rig, they will burn out faster than your usual shufflers.
-
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/Karmillo/zombietools-1.jpg)
Go nuts, this gets fun.
-
I guess if you want to hit zombies in the head with a piece of metal, then yes, it would work better, but you will not be severing anything whatsoever when using a monks spade. It is not a sharp object. You can use it all you want. I'll use a quan dao or nan dao
-
Primary Weapon: Heckler & Koch MP7. Small, compact and lightweight with a high maximum range for a machine-pistol which makes it ideal for short- to medium-range combat, which is the only time I'd expend ammo on slow targets anyways. Ammunition is very light, and the nature of the round is perfect for headshot-only brain penetration. The only downfall here is that neither the gun nor the ammo are readily available, so this would be a "what-if" best-case scenario.
Secondary Weapon: Remington 870. Classic. Available everywhere, same goes for ammo. Really, the shotgun is the ideal zombie weapon because in the hands of an amateur, the spread on buckshot can cripple zombie limbs, while in the hands of an expert slug ammo can take heads off of torsos.
Vehicle: HMMWV. Preferably not up-armored and not packing any serious heat (zombies can crawl in through that opening with the M2, dawg!). Maybe even throw on a set of no-flat tires and a scoop to the front.
Stronghold: A flat roof. School, business, I don't care. No door rooftop access if at all possible. Bring enough food and water, and a tarp, and you're set until you feel like lowering the ladder again.
-
Primary Weapon:
Lu Bu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lu_Bu) style Ji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ji_(halberd)): Shit is fun to swing around
Secondary Weapon:
Nan Dao: Shit is FUN to swing around
Vehicle:
Horse, just needs to eat, doesn't run out of gas, and looks badass
Stronghold:
Will leave the stronghold on horseback to find higher ground continually because it looks badass.
-
Primary weapon: long range rifle+ lots of bullets from hunting shop in town.
Secondary weapon: shovel
Vehicle: Horse
Armour: none, just slows you down.
Battle anthem: Carmina Burana by Oroff
Sidekick: Unsure
Stronghold: 2 hearby castles+army base
Location: cannot reveal they have spies everywhere!
Last words: Probably maniacal laughter, suddenly cut off.
-
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kNq_aPny_t4/ST6Sg4JYHzI/AAAAAAAAAAU/N6RR1NIeeLg/S1600-R/eva.jpg)
My answer to every question.
-
Ur doin it wrong.
Example -
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/3075246551_5b593d1dfe.jpg?v=0)
Primary - Dinosaur with fireman hat on for protection. Good for chomping through hordes of zombies.
Secondary - Gets the job done.
Vehicle - I'd ride it for miles.
Armour - Optimus prime, I would be in his body.
Battle Anthem - I liek NOFX.
Sidekick - Polar bears.
Stronghold - Inside Hugh Laurie.
Location - LHC
Last Words - BRB. Self explanatory really, I will come back as a zombie.
-
(http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mcellis/Eden/aodlogo.jpg)
All you really need is a chainsaw for a hand.
-
Primary weapon: Running away.
Secondary weapon: Running away, but faster.
Seriously, using weapons is pretty much something I would only expect to do as I was dying. If there was anything more than an hour's warning, I'd much rather get a fuckload of tinned food, stock up on water, go home, start reinforcing every possible entranceway, and trust to the grilles over the windows and the strength of the metal front door to save me. Grabbing the closest thing I could find to a hooligan bar would be my only other concern.
Chances are I'm dead, though. I mean, if you are worried about the Zombocalypse, do not live in a city!
-
Edit: ignore me, I'm a page behind the times.
-
yeah, but the shaolin spade is lighter, with longer reach and you can use both ends on the living dead.
Also if its fast zombies your up against? Head for the sea and live on an oil rig, they will burn out faster than your usual shufflers.
Lighter? I doubt that, are you thinking of a full-sized shovel? I'm talking about those ones you see in pouches on someone's web gear. 2.5 pounds at most, for an all-steel model. Longer reach, sure, but you are going to have to tote it around a back-up weapon needs to be small. Not really worried about using both ends.
Melodic: How about a PS90 for a primary in the place of the MP7? Not as compact, but it is civilian-accessible, and the round is similar. I'm pretty sure it was either designed for zombies, or an uprising of armored squirrels. Ammo still isn't hugely common, but it is much more common than 4.6. Also, if you have a reloading station, it uses the same bullets as 5.56, just have a bag under the ejection port so you don't lose your brass. The fully-loaded magazine is only a pound, as well, with 50 rounds loaded. If you can get to some decent facilities, you could saw off the extra barrel length and re-attach the flash-hider/barrel threading, get it down to P90 size. Again, that would be illegal, but like I said, if you are getting charged for illegally making a class III weapon, you have won, because zeds don't bother with that stuff. Only downside is that it wouldn't be good for bashing heads.
The issue with having a horse is that it can be bitten, a car can't. You could cover it in leather like you should be covering yourself, which would make it better, but it still wouldn't be as good when the shit hits the fan as a car, preferably one with a high torque engine. Maybe a Diesel, Diesel tends to last longer than gasoline, anyway. A horse would be good for moving around close to your base, when the zombies haven't been seen near by your lookouts. A horse would be fine when there isn't a swarm, it would also be quiet enough you might notice the zombies before they notice you. If you have to bug out, though, take the car. Do the horse a favor and kill it before you leave, and destroy it's brain. It will be more pleasant for the horse than being eaten alive, and you won't have to worry about being chased by a zombie horse.
-
They are more cutty, the normal ones have a tendency to be somewhat clunky, though I would probably use the normal shovel as, you know, I don't really have the proper one.
Also, the others longer reach and the fact that it was partially designed as weaponry should probably prove more useful than your standard (excuse the pun) garden variety spade.
-
I'm somewhat confused about which ones we are talking about here. The Shaolin Spade is the one there was a picture of, are you saying that that one is cutty and was designed as a weapon? The garden variety spade is the one you put as your secondary? The entrenching tool like I am talking about is like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrenching_tool closer to the soviet one, but folding (including an angle that allows it to be used as a pick). They were used as weapons in trench warfare, like you would use a knife or a bayonet. Compact, which is useful for a backup weapon, as it allows it to be used very close in, and is easier to tote around.
Like I have said, I wouldn't want to use a sharp object if I was going for headshots. I would be worried about getting it stuck, since I'm not well-trained in using the weapon. That's why I would use the hatchet with the blade cover still on, if I could be sure it wouldn't damage the blade. You bash a zed hard enough in the head, and the brain gets damaged, and they shut down. Not as flashy as lobotomizing them, but effective.
-
Did you not see the fact that it has a head like an axe? That says "cutty" to me.
I am saying as a secondary as you know, I don't have a martial arts class nearby and have no desire for actual weaponry that I would probably use a normal spade. You are using one of those things? Are you insane! These things have the reach of a normal human being and are all around you. I am sorry but I want to keep as far away from the gnashing teeth and rending claws of the unliving by having something that I can use from a long way away.
Or it doesn't go down and you have to keep moving and suddenly you are missing an important part of your neck? Personally I would not go for an entrenching tool or the spade because, if I am brutally honest there is never going to be a zombie outbreak. Its far more reasonable to prepare for a man made apocalypse than one foisted on us by fiction.
-
Get me a FAMAS rifle. Standard ammunition size, good accuracy, and it's a bullpup configuration, so you've got a lot more control over aim because you are forced to use ironsights.
I would still use a Glock handgun (from what I hear, they almost work BETTER with sand and shit in them, hah), but I would also carry around a machete, a hatchet, and one of those hooligan tool things. Also, my beloved short KA-BAR (thank god I already own one) Can never have too many cutting tools. Also, a sharpening kit. Flint and steel would be a good idea. And I'll be in Alaska during the whole thing, so a tent, bedroll, and canteen would be pretty much all I'd need. Warm clothing, too. Only one spare set, preferably with lots of polar fleece so that it stays warm even when wet. And the backpack used to carry it all would have to be waterproof. No food. Too heavy, and Alaskan wildlife
Also, carry around a bottle of bleach with you. A good way to disinfect your tools and other equipment after using it to kill zombies. That way, you can use it for hunting or cooking.
-
i think if a zombie apocalypse broke out i would just give chaos theory a high five and submit. i can't deal with that shit; flesh eating dead folks is where i draw the line...
i would go out with a bang though, drunken medieval undead slaying- fuuuuck yeaaaaaaaah
-
Did you not see the fact that it has a head like an axe? That says "cutty" to me.
This thing http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Monk-Spade.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Monk-Spade.jpg)? I don't see an axe head, and I can't see the edge, so I don't know if it's sharp. You could sharpen it, sure, but if someone actually used it for shoveling, you wouldn't want to, since you would have to re-sharpen pretty often, what with it being worn down by the rocks.
You are using one of those things? Are you insane! These things have the reach of a normal human being and are all around you. I am sorry but I want to keep as far away from the gnashing teeth and rending claws of the unliving by having something that I can use from a long way away.
Yes, I want something that I can use from a long way away. You know what that is? A gun. My backup weapon? Another gun. If they are all around you, you won't be able to hold them all off with a melee weapon. You have to keep moving while engaging them, to keep them from surrounding you. The case where I would be using a melee weapon, I would be extremely close in, and wouldn't be guaranteed enough space to swing around something bigger than an entrenching tool.
Or it doesn't go down and you have to keep moving and suddenly you are missing an important part of your neck?
You are holding them off with the other hand if you have to, leather covering every inch of skin, up to the top of the neck, then a helmet of some sort. If you are hand-to-hand, you are already in trouble, and I really don't see how the situation you described is different than with any melee weapon besides a 20 foot pike.
Personally I would not go for an entrenching tool or the spade because, if I am brutally honest there is never going to be a zombie outbreak. Its far more reasonable to prepare for a man made apocalypse than one foisted on us by fiction.
Hey... that's what the zombie spies say! Get him!
Realistically, though, that would change the gear choice, but not the tactics choice. Some people would be using the same rifle, but I would probably go with an FAL, camo, ballistic vest with inserts, but still carrying a hatchet, entrenching tool, and hooligan bar (it would be nice if you have an entranching tool with fold-out bits like the hooligan bar).
Patrick, the bleach can also be used to purify water, though it is rather nasty tasting. I'd probably recommend a shotgun as a second gun, as well. Loaded with hardcast lead slugs, because you have polar bears to deal with, and a 5.56 isn't going to be much use against one of them. Alternately, you could get a .45-70 gun, that would be nice and long range too, and works against bear.
edit: just noticed IronFist's edit of weapon choice on the last page. Those are good suggestions, but the caliber is heavier than you need for zombies, I'd go for an SKS, especially if you could get a reliable 30-round magazine one. They are also cheap as anything, you could outfit 10 people with one for the price of one AR-15.
-
because you have polar bears to deal with
Polar bears do not exist on the island I'll be on. As for the water argument, there are so many rivers that I can just straight drink out of. My biggest concern would be the rivers icing over during winter, but even then, that's what the hatchet, flint, and steel are for. I can just loot a pot out of somebody's house and use it to heat ice and melt it, then drink that.
-
Ah, no polar bears will make things easier. I was just adding another use for the bleach, if you don't have to use it, that is better.
-
Southeast Alaska, specifically the Tongass Rainforest (which Baranof Island has plenty of shares in), is probably the best place I can think of to be in case of a civilization-ending global clusterfuck. When the shit goes down I am -set-. There's tons of places in my town to loot for gear. The town is only 8,000 people, so I won't have to worry about anywhere near as many targets as I would in a bigger city. And in Alaska, if you don't want to be found, you will not be found. Ever.
-
Guys I wonder why no one has made a submachine gun chambered in magnum calibers. Like, say an MP5 chambered in .357 magnum. That would be tits for fighting off zombies with. Would there be just too much recoil?
-
Well, magnums are rimmed rounds, which make them feed worse from a box magazine. The closest I can think of is an MP5 in 10mm, which is between .357 magnum and .44 magnum for power. Around the .41 magnum, but that one isn't as commonly known.
-
I imagine the recoil would be a bitch too, though. It'd be like using a Deagle when all you really need is a Sig.
-
Nah, 10mm recoil isn't much more than .45, and an MP5 is pretty heavy, wikipedia says the 10mm version is 5.9 pounds fixed stock, 6.3 retractable. Should be nice and controllable.
-
Paging Khar to this thread. Khar, this thread please.
-
Uh, Nodaisho, you know that tommy guns were .45s, right? And that they were known for excessive muzzle climb despite their (by modern standards) excessive weight?
-
Sidekick - Polar bears.
Sure that seems like a good idea on paper, but if the polar bear gets zombified, you're fucked.
-
I would guess that the issue with the Thompson was the stock. Look at the way it is angled, the muzzle climb would be more with that than with a straight-back stock, like most modern rifles have. Sort of like how the old colt Single Action Army revolvers had those plowshare handles, it rocked the gun back so you could thumb the hammer more easily. The recoil impulse for a 10.6 pound Thompson (that would be empty, so it would actually weigh more) comes out to 1.03 pounds per second of recoil energy, with the gun recoiling at 4 feet per second.
There is a vid here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=963-B2Al428) that shows a 10mm MP5 (could be a .40, but they say it is a 10mm), note how much the technique makes a difference in muzzle rise. The first guy doesn't pull in and down at all, so it goes up a ways. The second guy pulls hard enough that it actually goes down a bit. Either way, that recoil isn't half bad. It is really hard to say how strong the recoil is without firing it yourself, though, since it looks so different depending on the person.
Inlander: Simple, get them some armor. They did it in the golden compass, it should work fine.
-
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/Xyljin/zombietools-1.jpg)
I'm pretty confident in my choices.
-
That motorcross armor? Probably would work pretty well. Who is the sidekick? Besides being from the '80s. I've got an idea for mine, now.
-
Dude, it's fuckin' MacGyver. Also, I think I should get bonus points for the fact that even my fictional character (and the actor that plays him) are from Minnesota.
And yeah, it's motocross armor. My strategy would be predicated on avoiding direct conflict, (hence the hooligan bar and multi-tool instead of true weapons) so relatively practical and light weight armor that protects against incidental cuts and abrasions (and thus, infection) hits me as a bigger priority than trying to find riot gear or something. Any situations where the bar or the armor isn't enough is a situation I should be running/pedaling from.
-
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m5/dazedandconfused-/Zombietools.jpg)
-
Ah, okay. I was born in '91, I think MacGyver was done by then.
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4650/zombietoolsta0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
The vehicle might not be ideal, but it wouldn't be used often, either. Secondary is the M4 Spectre, 50 round magazine of 9mm, extremely compact SMG with a folding stock. The final words depend on whether I am in a composed enough state of mind to make a joke or not.
-
All you really need is a chainsaw for a hand.
People keep thinking that's the funny one but they are wrong!
EVIL DEAD 2 4 EVA
-
I don't actually think that's the funny one, it's just the first picture that I found that was large enough.
I liked 1 better. Also, the musical was pretty damned good.
-
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/zombietools.jpg)
-
Guys I think he's got a pretty solid plan there
-
The battle anthem will ruin everything.
-
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Spluff/zombietools.jpg)
Wrap up the thread, folks.
-
(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6486/zombietools1se0.jpg) (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zombietools1se0.jpg)
-
(http://i39.tinypic.com/zyivxh.jpg)
-
EMBRACE CHANGE
-
Someone said change?
(http://datelinebucharest.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/barack-obama-bw1.png)
-
He is my weapon of choice.
-
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/Karmillo/ONEMANCURE.jpg)
Primary
Right Fist
Secondary
Left Fist
Vehicle
My legs, one step at a time
Armour
The clothes on my back
Battle Anthem
See Sidekick
Side Kick
Pack of Dogs/Wolves whatever.
Stronghold
My pants, wherever they may be
Location
Wherever I am
Last words
lol lok at u guys expectin to die
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4342/zombietools1ow8.jpg)
Primary - Arnie.
Secondary - Arnie.
Vehicle - Arnie and his Chopper. (say it, you know you want to).
Armour - Arnie.
Battle Anthem - GET TO ZEE CHOPPAH, NAO!
Sidekick - Arnie.
Stronghold - Inside Arnie.
Location - Wherever Arnie is.
Last Words - Refer to pic.
-
oh god you guys i got the klobb. why aren't there any good guns on this map.
P.S., Spluff, I think I found a flaw in your plan (http://starwarsblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/zombdarthvader.jpg).
-
Good options all. I had a Great Wall O Text to post, but you know what?
I don't need to impress you with my hobbies.
Since I can't photoshop worth a crap, I'll just list my options:
1) Primary Weapon: AR-15A2 16" Patrolman's Carbine
2) Secondary Weapon: Kel-Tec Sub-2000G Carbine
3) Tertiary Weapon: Glock 17 in Glock Sport/Combat holster
4) Vehicle: My POV, whatever it happens to be.
5) Armor: My vest.
6) Battle Anthem: "Twilight Zone" by Golden Earring: "You will come to know, when the bullet hits the bone."
7) Sidekick(s): EMSHamguy and The Gouge
8) Stronghold: My home
9) Location: Tampa
10) Last words: "Now you know why I have THIS!"
I had a lot of commentary, from refuting the "Glock doesn't make a .357" to "Beltfeds are a good choice against zombies."
And then I realized all of my knowledge was grounded in REALITY and many of you have absolutely no frame of reference outside of Hollywood, video games, and television.
So I decided not to bother.
But I will answer this one question:
"Have you ever fired a pistol?"
Considering I've been qualifying multi-caliber since 1991, I can comfortably go out on a limb here and say, "Yes".
Among other things.
My toy store: Autoweapons.com
Suppressors are cheaper than machine guns, I'll probably be buying one before a full auto.
But pretty much only as a toy.
As far as integrally suppressed firearms...you can get 'em, and they're not exactly rare. Again, as a toy.
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
Some of you have the right idea, though. Keep working through it.
That's all you get from me here; I have an entire website devoted to preparedness. I am a poster on Zombie Squad. I have a skillset that pretty much encompasses this very situation.
But you don't want reality any more than I want it here. This is my playtime.
Thus, my post ends. You may applaud politely if you like.
S
-
Sorry, no applause. Your post was doing pretty good there, and then you started going on about how you are far more qualified to discuss the zombie apocalypse than us, and how all we know is hollywood and video games. Trollstormur has guns, I don't know specifically which, but I think he has an AR-15. Melodic has guns as well, only one he has mentioned is an 1911. I don't have guns, yet. Having a job and turning 18 comes first, but I have a shopping list ready. And if you didn't need to impress us with your hobbies, like you said at the beginning, why mention the wall of text, or mention it at the end? Being on zombie squad is great, but don't think that because of that, you are the only one here who "talk(s) about it on the internet".
Why wouldn't belt-feds be a good choice? The main issue I could see is that damn near nobody makes a lightweight one, barring the Shrike, which is pretty much vaporware, and the LMT .22 beltfed upper, which is a .22 and I remember seeing quite a few failures to fire on videos of them (could be the ammo). Like I said, though, it wouldn't be for walking around, it would be for when you need to blaze a way out of your current base, because it has gotten too zombie-infested (standing room only crowded). Probably not a situation that should ever come up, but if you can keep them around for that situation, it would be good. Also a good force multiplier in case of unfriendly humans. Love means never having to reload.
Is the Sub-2000 sturdy? I've heard questions about the durability of the SU-16, which would otherwise (if you had good amounts of replacement parts) be a good choice, weighing less than an M4, and having a folding stock that doesn't disrupt functioning in the C version. I would assume the same durability problems would be true throughout the line, but I could be wrong. Being able to use the same magazines in your secondary and your pistol would be good as well.
Why would a suppressed gun only be a toy? It isn't like you can't clean it out while things are quiet. A cleaning kit is necessary equipment with any gun for long-term effectiveness, why not clean the suppressor too?
Oh, and before you point out my suggestion of the 74SU isn't legal without an SBR fee or a machinegun fee if it was auto, I know that. It was intended as ideal. I had the idea of just having it as a pistol, with a stock lying around, and having the tools to modify it to attach a stock, but I don't think they make 5.45 pistols, just 7.62.
-
Oh so you think because people don't shoot guns they don't know how to kill zombies? You want tried and tested? Okay,
HC - The Culling of Stratholme - 17/01/2009
Primary Weapon - Red Sword of Courage (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37401) Okay so maybe it isn't anything special but it does the job, mongoose or Titanium weapon chain, I don't mind.
Secondary weapon - Armour Plated Combat Shotgun (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41168) All tanks should have one (+stam gem OFC)
Vehicle - Black War Mammoth (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43956) Because it's my new badass mount and my AV mount was getting old.
Armour - Valorous Dreadnaught Plate (http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=-18) Okay so I may have a mix of HC purples and 10/25 Naxx gear, but one can dream no? Also trinks/boots/belt/rings/neck/cloak etc.
Battle anthem - Vent banter and NOFX white trash two heebs and a bean album.
Sidekick - Likme the restro drood (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hellscream&n=Likme) My friend, pretty good healer.
Stronghold - Behind my Crygil's Discarded Plate Panel (http://) +20 def rating enc.
Location - Stratholm circa when Arthas went to Northrend.
Last words (in the instance) - "We rolling for shards?"
Mine actually happened, yours is all just speculation, does that make my ideas better than yours? NO.
So stop being such an elitest jerk about all you know about shoota's (which is apparantly less than you think) because there's always someone out there who knows more than you waiting to make you look like a 'tard. Maybe they will post in this thread?
-
Primary: M-14
Secondary: M1 Carbine
Tertiary: Fire axe
Vehicle: Bicycle
Armor: motorcycle leathers
Battle Anthem: Through the fire and the Flames
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Stronghold: Air Force Academy
Last Words: "Are you fucking KIDDING me?"
-
I wasn't talking about you, Nodaisho. You actually had some pretty good, well thought out ideas. I'll clarify for you:
Why wouldn't belt-feds be a good choice? The main issue I could see is that damn near nobody makes a lightweight one, barring the Shrike, which is pretty much vaporware,
The Shrike was mostly vaporware because they chose a poor original location for their factory. Now that they're down in FL, they've started shipping the carbine uppers for 2500 each and the feed covers (which are currently being shipped to the patient customers who have been waiting 5+ years for the damn things, hence the vaporware comment is not wholly unwarranted, in fact, it is mostly justified) which, once they are caught up with both their pre-orders and the military, will go for another 2500.
It's not so much the lightweight concept as it is the ammo concept. Beltfeds are voraciously hungry eaters. You might stop ONE mob with three beltfeds, but the sheer amount of ammunition necessary to have in reserve in order to keep those beltfeds running quickly becomes logistically unsound for an unresupplied location.
Moving right along.
Is the Sub-2000 sturdy?
As compared to what? I wouldn't butt-stroke someone with it, if that's what you mean. If you mean amount of rounds downrange between failures, I've put about 5000 through mine with nary a hitch. It's a very simple action with a big, heavy bolt and decently heavy recoil spring. It's a blowback, so no gas system to foul, and the trigger system is STUPID simple. So from a FIRING standpoint, I'd say yes, it's durable. From a "Use it as a club" standpoint, I'd say it makes a better wiffle bat.
The SU-16 has been the victim of a rumor, the origins of which are a bit obscure, as to mean rounds before failure. Also, it's been inferred that their barrels are not chrome lined.
When I spoke to George Kellgren a few weeks ago in person, he assured me that ALL SU-16 models are being manufactured with chrome-lined barrels and chambers, not just the SU-16D. Then he showed me. I'm a believer.
I still wouldn't buttstroke someone with it; But that's the tradeoff for the weight, the fold-down bipod, the gas-piston system that doesn't crap where it eats, and a reliable action with many of the GOOD points of the AR-15 without some of the more glaring drawbacks.
And moving along again.
Why would a suppressed gun only be a toy? It isn't like you can't clean it out while things are quiet. A cleaning kit is necessary equipment with any gun for long-term effectiveness, why not clean the suppressor too?
Because suppressors don't exactly work the way people think they do; They'd be of limited utility in a ZPAW, and they make a barrel you're trying to make shorter for handiness, LONGER. Many modern suppressors do not require cleaning at all; In fact, at least one AAC model, the factory reps said, "The dirtier it is, the quieter it is." Others are of a semi-self-cleaning nature. Suppressor technology has come a long way since the crude drawings of the Anarchist's cookbook.
Other than shooting without earmuffs, there are just too few real-world applications for a suppressor for it to be much more than a toy. But I'll admit that that's my opinion. And my first suppressed firearm will probably be the converted Ruger 22 pistol with integral AAC suppressor called the Amphibian. Very nice. Looks like a long-barrelled Ruger .22 pistol with a bull barrel.
Moving right along.
Oh, and before you point out my suggestion of the 74SU isn't legal without an SBR fee or a machinegun fee if it was auto, I know that.
I wasn't even going to go there. Instead, I was going from the point of view of the 74 SU's short barrel having a detriment to both muzzle velocity (already an issue with the 5.45x39.5 cartridge) and accuracy (especially the shorter sight radius). A way to get around the shorter sight radius is to go optical, but then that's one more thing to worry about breaking under heavy duty conditions.
And while the 5.45 is plentiful and cheap RIGHT NOW, it IS an imported round, which can dry up with the stroke of a presidential pen. If you're going to keep it for ZPAW, then no matter how much ammo you get, it is still finite, which means full auto is wasteful. If you're not going full auto, you still have the velocity issues cutting down on your effective range with a shorty barrel.
In contrast, I'd recommend a full-length 74 (16" barrel) in 5.56; I've been very impressed with the accuracy of the Romanian SAR-3's, and a little disappointed in their "remix" the WASR-3. However, their barrels are ALSO chrome-lined, and with decently adjusted sights to a 25/250 BSZ, or a QD scope setup, could be used as effectively as a 16" AR-15, though a bit heavier but definitely an advantage in the reliability department. Just remember that the 5.56 version of the 74 uses a slightly different hammer geometry. The correct hammer can be purchased at Red Star Arms, or, I think also from Tapco.
By and large, though, the 74 is a good choice for a ZPAW if compatibility and continued logistics are not a concern. Merely stock up with anywhere from 2-5 thousand rounds in the coolio spam tins, have at least ten 30-round magazines that feed reliably (Try them out before betting your life on them), and appropriate sight adjustment, and you're good to go.
I didn't address legal issues because honestly, I don't care. It's your business, not mine how much exposure to what kind of risk is tolerable to you and under which conditions. I was making recommendations based upon my own opinion and experience.
I'd also finally like to point out that merely having a gun does not make you armed any more than having a piano makes you a musician; A tool is useless if you are not able to use it skillfully.
With that, I recommend actual practice with your firearm, a tactical carbine class that includes both technical and psychomotor components, at least one force-on-force class with emphasis on your chosen sidearm, at least THREE bouts in a FATS, and that's just for starters. Basic Defensive Pistol, Defensive Pistol, and Advanced Defensive Pistol are also excellent courses.
Because knowledge and skills are things that can't be taken away from you, and with enough of both, the equipment becomes less relevant to your effectiveness than does how you apply it to your situation.
Finally, my statement was "Many of you..." when it came to hollywood and television "training"
And I also mentioned that some of you had the right idea in that same post. Curious as to WHY you thought I was talking TO you when I talked about hollywood and was NOT talking about you when I talked about the right idea.
But no matter. I've clarified my positions. And without near the Great Wall O Text, either.
We can discuss logistics further, if you like. As I said before, SOME of you (by which I specifically include you, Nodaisho) have the right idea, and some well-thought out options. Those who fall into this category, I am happy to discuss the finer points and make recommendations.
The REST of you who DON'T fall into that category...the cluephone is ringing...pick it up.
It's up to you to decide who's full of shit and who has been there and done that, not me. I'm comfortable in my preps, and mine are both FOR REAL, and ALREADY DONE.
S
-
Man that is crazy, everyone knows that there is no where to run to.
You can run but you can't hide.
-
I hate fun and kittens.
Really though, why are you trying to suck the fun and goodness out of this thread? We're talking about fucking zombies, why should our ideas be grounded in reality?
-
You fire a gun and all the zombies hear it and swarm you and eat you and you die, meanwhile I will be over there in my country with not many guns hiding in a police station or something. Stock a prison cell with enough food/water etc. and the entire cell block could serve to keep you and some friends alive and safe for a year or some shit. It's a prison, people cannot get out and you could make it so people could not get in.
Defeat is imminent and you will get turned into a zombie which might be pretty damn awesome, for all you know the zombies might be all like "Hey dude this fucking rocks! let me bite you and it will be awesome! You get to run about all over the place, hang out with us, take whatever you like and it feels sooo good"
-
I, for one, would like to see Ed, Edd, and Eddy fight zombies.
-
The Shrike was mostly vaporware because they chose a poor original location for their factory. Now that they're down in FL, they've started shipping the carbine uppers for 2500 each and the feed covers (which are currently being shipped to the patient customers who have been waiting 5+ years for the damn things, hence the vaporware comment is not wholly unwarranted, in fact, it is mostly justified) which, once they are caught up with both their pre-orders and the military, will go for another 2500.
Good to know. I was sad to hear that the shrike seemed to not actually exist, because it seems like such a good idea. Maybe I'll get one eventually, assuming no banning.
It's not so much the lightweight concept as it is the ammo concept. Beltfeds are voraciously hungry eaters. You might stop ONE mob with three beltfeds, but the sheer amount of ammunition necessary to have in reserve in order to keep those beltfeds running quickly becomes logistically unsound for an unresupplied location.
The use of the belt-feds would be best reserved for absolute last-ditch situations while bugging out of your current base. If you didn't have to get out immediately, a molotov cocktail might be better. It just means a flaming zombie, but a flaming zombie is a charred skeleton that doesn't know it yet, and if a bunch of other oh-so-flammable zombies are pressing up against it, you could take out a whole mob with just one cocktail.
As compared to what? I wouldn't butt-stroke someone with it, if that's what you mean.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I come from the somewhat old school of thought, that says that both ends of your gun should be usable as a weapon. Probably not all that advantageous, in reality, but it is a psychological thing as well.
If you mean amount of rounds downrange between failures, I've put about 5000 through mine with nary a hitch. It's a very simple action with a big, heavy bolt and decently heavy recoil spring. It's a blowback, so no gas system to foul, and the trigger system is STUPID simple. So from a FIRING standpoint, I'd say yes, it's durable. From a "Use it as a club" standpoint, I'd say it makes a better wiffle bat.
Still sounds like a good choice ammo compatibility wise. If you find a bunch of 9mm ammo, better to be able to use it in a carbine than a pistol.
The SU-16 has been the victim of a rumor, the origins of which are a bit obscure, as to mean rounds before failure. Also, it's been inferred that their barrels are not chrome lined.
When I spoke to George Kellgren a few weeks ago in person, he assured me that ALL SU-16 models are being manufactured with chrome-lined barrels and chambers, not just the SU-16D. Then he showed me. I'm a believer.
I still wouldn't buttstroke someone with it; But that's the tradeoff for the weight, the fold-down bipod, the gas-piston system that doesn't crap where it eats, and a reliable action with many of the GOOD points of the AR-15 without some of the more glaring drawbacks.
I had heard good things about the gun, but the opinion was pretty prevalent that they wouldn't use it in an SHTF situation, partially for lack of replacement parts, and partially for the amount of polymer. It's funny, we all know that polymers can be ridiculously strong, especially for their weight, but some part of us still wants the old-fashioned durability of metal and wood. The folding bipod is good, though I wonder how steady it would be. Could give a decent challenge for lightweight .223 of choice.
Because suppressors don't exactly work the way people think they do; They'd be of limited utility in a ZPAW, and they make a barrel you're trying to make shorter for handiness, LONGER. Many modern suppressors do not require cleaning at all; In fact, at least one AAC model, the factory reps said, "The dirtier it is, the quieter it is." Others are of a semi-self-cleaning nature. Suppressor technology has come a long way since the crude drawings of the Anarchist's cookbook.
Very true, at least on the longer and have progressed a lot fronts. Don't know about the cleaning, having not researched them more than making sure they exist for a given caliber, and seeing what decibel reduction you are looking at. With something as short as the 74U, though, longer is a very relative term. At least some designs also mount back on the gun, using some space by the end of the barrel as well as the standard baffles, minimizing the extra space it takes.
Other than shooting without earmuffs, there are just too few real-world applications for a suppressor for it to be much more than a toy. But I'll admit that that's my opinion. And my first suppressed firearm will probably be the converted Ruger 22 pistol with integral AAC suppressor called the Amphibian. Very nice. Looks like a long-barrelled Ruger .22 pistol with a bull barrel.
Well, I'm pretty sure that I don't want to be wearing earmuffs when keeping an ear out for zombies. I've heard that some electronic ones actually enhance low volume sounds while dulling the loud ones, but I don't know if that is true, and I would want to try them out first, anyway. For me, the idea would be making sure as few others as possible hear the sounds of gunshots. 27-30 decibels of noise drop is making it one ninth or one tenth the volume. Still going to be decently loud, but better than unsuppressed.
I wasn't even going to go there. Instead, I was going from the point of view of the 74 SU's short barrel having a detriment to both muzzle velocity (already an issue with the 5.45x39.5 cartridge) and accuracy (especially the shorter sight radius). A way to get around the shorter sight radius is to go optical, but then that's one more thing to worry about breaking under heavy duty conditions.
And while the 5.45 is plentiful and cheap RIGHT NOW, it IS an imported round, which can dry up with the stroke of a presidential pen. If you're going to keep it for ZPAW, then no matter how much ammo you get, it is still finite, which means full auto is wasteful. If you're not going full auto, you still have the velocity issues cutting down on your effective range with a shorty barrel.
The sights would be an issue, I would probably have some sort of optic on the gun, and have backups if I could. I don't think the velocity would be an issue out to longer ranges than I would expect the gun to be capable of getting reliable headshots, though. You do have a point about ammo availability possibly drying up, if that does happen, I'll have to change plans for my gun.
In contrast, I'd recommend a full-length 74 (16" barrel) in 5.56; I've been very impressed with the accuracy of the Romanian SAR-3's, and a little disappointed in their "remix" the WASR-3. However, their barrels are ALSO chrome-lined, and with decently adjusted sights to a 25/250 BSZ, or a QD scope setup, could be used as effectively as a 16" AR-15, though a bit heavier but definitely an advantage in the reliability department. Just remember that the 5.56 version of the 74 uses a slightly different hammer geometry. The correct hammer can be purchased at Red Star Arms, or, I think also from Tapco.
I was thinking a 180B for .223, though I could be biased because of how much I love the looks of that gun. You can get one of the folding stocks from the original 180/18 on there, and a picatinny rail mounted on the strange scope mount armalite put on there. Spare parts could be an issue, admittedly. One thing the various AKs and AR-15s (and CETME/G3s, FALs, and M1As, but those are more than you need for zeds) wouldn't have a problem with. I suppose it would depend on whether I stocked up on spare parts, and had them with me as to whether that would be a good choice.
I'd also finally like to point out that merely having a gun does not make you armed any more than having a piano makes you a musician; A tool is useless if you are not able to use it skillfully.
With that, I recommend actual practice with your firearm, a tactical carbine class that includes both technical and psychomotor components, at least one force-on-force class with emphasis on your chosen sidearm, at least THREE bouts in a FATS, and that's just for starters. Basic Defensive Pistol, Defensive Pistol, and Advanced Defensive Pistol are also excellent courses.
Very true, and bonus points for referencing the late Col. Cooper. I do want to go to Thunder Ranch, which I have heard nothing but good about, but that will come in quite a while. Don't know what an FATS is, though.
Finally, my statement was "Many of you..." when it came to hollywood and television "training"
And I also mentioned that some of you had the right idea in that same post. Curious as to WHY you thought I was talking TO you when I talked about hollywood and was NOT talking about you when I talked about the right idea.
But no matter. I've clarified my positions. And without near the Great Wall O Text, either.
We can discuss logistics further, if you like. As I said before, SOME of you (by which I specifically include you, Nodaisho) have the right idea, and some well-thought out options. Those who fall into this category, I am happy to discuss the finer points and make recommendations.
The REST of you who DON'T fall into that category...the cluephone is ringing...pick it up.
It's up to you to decide who's full of shit and who has been there and done that, not me. I'm comfortable in my preps, and mine are both FOR REAL, and ALREADY DONE.
S
Well, I knew you were referring to me when you mentioned the belt-feds. I admit that they aren't practical for just about anything you would be dealing with in zombieland (aside from aforementioned battles with unfriendly survivors), but I just get annoyed by the "No automatic period" rule people quote constantly. Not as bad as when people say you want a bolt action, so you don't spray and pray, but still pretty annoying. Wouldn't use an automatic-only gun, though, if I had a choice. I really don't trust my skill to pull off even pairs of shots, much less single shots.
I assumed you weren't referring to me with the hollywood bit, but it still came across pretty arrogant. Apologies if that isn't how you intended it to sound, text-based conversation is a fickle mistress.
-
No guys, no.
-
I, for one, would like to see Ed, Edd, and Eddy fight zombies.
Well from all the monster movies Ed has watched I am sure he would be more capable and educated than anyone in this thread.
I always thought for a gun agains zombies a 7.62 would be better than a 5.56 due to the damage it does on a cadaver, smaller bullet just goes straight through causing less damage but a 7.62 will fuck shit up alot more and depending on location bullits might be easier to come by.
But hey, a machete never runs out of bullits.
-
I've read through this thread, but i'm still confused what type of zombies we are being overrun with here?
-
Oh sweet mercy you are analysing guns that is so boring I think an accountant just popped into existence, please don't start discussing spread, or weight or gage because, you know something? Its utterly and completly dull.
Also, I thought it was slow zombies considering these appeared and then nothing happened.
-
Edit: sorry mine isn't based on best scenario for me weapon wise. But i'm figuring I'd still get by with what I currently have realistically.
Tools:
Shotgun - located under my bed, is preloaded
Extra Ammo - in my duffel bag in the closest(may or may not be accessible depending on the situation)
car (2005 Grand Prix, good for outrunning slow zombies) - always has a half tank of gas which can get me close to 100 miles
18 water bottles and survivial kit - located in trunk of car
fishing poles - located in trunk of car(lots of lil ponds/rivers around here in dire need can use for catching food)
Plan:
I live in the middle of the city but near some major artery streets. I would hopefully be aware of the Zombie invasion before streets become congested(very very light sleeper). I would speed and get out of town and head towards my hometown which is rougly 180 miles. Once there I should be good to go as I have plenty of family who love/own guns and has many deep freezers full of food. They stock up on water as well just because they always go to sam's club when they come visit me and the buy tons of water. I think there with them is my best chance for survival and also where'd i'd be okay with dying as well.
Note: we're never short on ammo :)
Problems:
Not being aware of zombie attack before I have them coming in through my windows - I live garden level so I could forsee this being a huge problem.
Not being able to get out of the city i'm in with my car - Sioux Falls is not yet restructured for it's population and can get very congested during rush hours(not as bad as real cities, but not good for zombie invasion either)
Smaller towns already overrun with zombies - I would need to stop at some point to get gas to make it all the way to my hometown, if the small towns have zombies roaming it may be very difficult to do so.
Family already zombies - Sad but i'd have to dispose of them. I would still try to strong hold at my grandparents where most of the guns/ammo is located. I woudln't bank on suriving so much as I'd bank on trying to kill as many zombies in the area as possible. There is only 3500 in my hometown.. I know there is more than triple that amount of ammo and the closest towns are 10 miles and only a few hundred people.
-
What if the zombies are arching their backs?
-
If you didn't have to get out immediately, a molotov cocktail might be better.
Agreed. Both logistically and tactically. Also, it takes a lower level of technology to make molotovs, meaning if you had access to alcohol, or even rudimentary distilling equipment and a way to procure containers (glass blowing might get interesting, but it's easier than trying to make a machine shop from scratch), you could theoretically resupply forever.
This kind of sustainability in a ZPAW will go the farthest.
I had heard good things about the gun, but the opinion was pretty prevalent that they wouldn't use it in an SHTF situation, partially for lack of replacement parts, and partially for the amount of polymer.
I talked to George about replacement parts. They're available if anyone wants to buy them. I told him I'd be making a "repair kit purchase" sometime this year. He seemed a bit confused as to why I'd want them, considering the guns are lifetime warranteed, and I told him that I thought he'd deliberately designed his rifles for survival purposes considering all the features he put on them, and thus, most survivalist types tend to prefer their own local supply lines.
I don't remember his answer to that.
It's funny, we all know that polymers can be ridiculously strong, especially for their weight, but some part of us still wants the old-fashioned durability of metal and wood.
Having broken a wooden stock in my time, I can tell you from first hand experience that some woods are more durable than others. Surprising, actually, which woods and which buttstocks are actually durable and others you'd expect to be...aren't.
The folding bipod is good, though I wonder how steady it would be.
I like it. It's steady enough for me to tighten my groupings at 100m.
I forgot to mention that the SU-16 series ALSO has the built in (as in, molded into the receiver itself) scope rail. And the bipod? It's actually the handguards, so that's built-in as well.
It really is a well-thought-out firearm, incorporating accessories that most people would want in a rifle as DESIGN features.
And the last thing we all have to consider when considering the logistics is cost. And you're right, the SU-16 gives pretty much all other .223 rifles a run for their money in that department, even with the price increases across the board.
At least some designs also mount back on the gun, using some space by the end of the barrel as well as the standard baffles, minimizing the extra space it takes.
Look carefully at the specs on those types of suppressors. That's all I'm going to say as I am not going to bad-mouth any manufacturers today.
For me, the idea would be making sure as few others as possible hear the sounds of gunshots. 27-30 decibels of noise drop is making it one ninth or one tenth the volume. Still going to be decently loud, but better than unsuppressed.
A decent point, to which I must counterpoint that most rifle cartridges are supersonic, with the crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier being almost as loud as the muzzle blast, so suppressing a supersonic round is...well...not particularly effective. Second, depending upon the suppressor, there will be a change in point of impact of the projectile because of the way the muzzle gases are handled. The change is directly dependent both upon the design/manufacture of the suppressor itself, and the quality control of that manufacturer and the tolerances thereof.
Just adds another variable as a potential to degrade accuracy, which, in a life-or-death situation, is not generally a good idea. This is why I stressed "as a toy."
I don't think the velocity would be an issue out to longer ranges than I would expect the gun to be capable of getting reliable headshots, though.
A general rule of thumb with decently made rifles is "the rifle is more accurate than you are." So we're talking more about practical accuracy than mechanical, but what good is a rifle that could drive tacks one on top of the other if in a benchrest vise, that can't be duplicated by the rifle's user?
Practical accuracy has to come into factor here. Velocity affects practical accuracy by the fact that projectiles don't travel straight -- they travel in an arc. A rifleman is simply a more precise "archer" in that he should know where his projectile is going to hit relative to his sight picture at any given range. This is what separates a mere marksman from an expert or sniper. A marksman puts his sight picture on the target, aims dead center, and expects his projectiles to hit where he aims. If they don't, he adjusts the sights till they do (This is also known as BSZ, or Battle Sight Zero). An expert does this (for the .223 and the .308) at 25 yards, then verifies zero at 250 yards, as well. Because at 25 yards the projectile hits to point of aim on the UPWARD part of the arc, and at 250 yards on the DOWNWARD part of the arc, with 100 yards having a point of impact a couple of inches ABOVE point of aim. Then the expert "dopes" the shot, by which I mean he measures the ambient temperature, wind direction and speed, and other atmospheric factors that CAN (but not necessarily do) affect shot placement, and fires his course of fire. He does this again, and again, and again, under different conditions each time, until he has a "rifle card" of information he can use to deduce how MUCH those factors affect his points of impact.
Honestly, though. Most soldiers can't hit Jack past 300 meters. Headshots at anything past 100 is something that requires practice and/or a benchrest at the very least. Shooting ain't easy.
But it IS possible. Just remember that it is ONLY possible if you put the time AND effort in, and THEN keep those skills honed.
Those skills CAN transition to a different platform, but adjustments will have to be made from one to the other in the finer points of the technique (which requires time and bullets downrange when careful analysis can be done, not the heat of combat) so that one can shoot the second platform as well as the first.
Time, and effort. Determination and self-control.
I know people who can take consistent headshots offhand at 100 meters. I can count them on one hand, and I know a LOT of people. I myself am not one who can; I need a benchrest for consistent headshots at 100m and beyond.
I was thinking a 180B for .223, though I could be biased because of how much I love the looks of that gun.
Yeah, I had a crush on the AR-18 since the 70's, and in many ways it is a superior design to the AR-15. I won't go into the history on this now (you all can breathe a sigh of relief), but what I will say is that while I like the AR-18/AR-180/AR-180B, they still all fall into the "toy" category mostly because of parts availability and weight. (Parts availability you did mention, kudos.)
I suppose it would depend on whether I stocked up on spare parts, and had them with me as to whether that would be a good choice.
Absolutely correct, and along with those spare parts, the ability to replace them correctly. I do. I carry a near full set of spare parts for the AR-15 as a matter of course. In the "Things you may not know about me" thread, I mention that I build rifles as a hobby. AR-15's to be exact, and I start with a bare receiver. So not only do I HAVE the spare parts, I know how to install and replace them, becuase it's something I already do.
Glocks are also reasonably simple to work on as far as basic parts replacement. A single tool is used for almost every armorer's operation. Another consideration I made when I chose the Glock -- How quickly could I learn how to fix it myself? Answer: About three hours with some guidance and two full detail-strips of similar models.
Very true, and bonus points for referencing the late Col. Cooper.
I was curious if you would catch that. Good. We are on the same page, or at least in the same book.
Don't know what an FATS is, though.
Fire Arms Training Simulator. Basically, a video-based shoot-don't shoot scenario system, similar to a video game, but using real firearms either with live ammo or simunitions, depending upon the application. It provides as close to real-world decision-making scenarios as you can get without shooting real people. It involves proficiency with your equipment (like your holster and magazines), your firearm (how well you shoot) and your ability to percieve what is going on and make good judgment calls with deadly force (your OODA loop, basically).
Absolutely essential if you're planning on saving your butt with a firearm in my opinion. Against anyONE or anyTHING.
but I just get annoyed by the "No automatic period" rule people quote constantly.
Sure, I do too, because I can tell they're just parroting what some "expert" told them without knowing the WHY behind it.
We know the why. So we also know when the "no cyclic fire" rule CAN and SHOULD be broken.
Not as bad as when people say you want a bolt action, so you don't spray and pray, but still pretty annoying.
Someone who uses that logic is unwittingly indicating his own lack of fire discipline. The part that's annoying is when they project that lack of discipline to others as justification for making a rule, when every person is different and many folks DO have decent fire discipline and need no arbitrary rules to conduct themselves efficiently in the art of ass-saving through superior firepower.
"Least common denominator" bullshit chafes my ass probably as much as it does you; Again, I've experienced much of that firsthand in my life. I am better than a good portion of the population at what I do, both because of the diversity of my skillset and the amount of time, effort, and discipline I've put into them and the knowledge and experience that surrounds it.
I assumed you weren't referring to me with the hollywood bit, but it still came across pretty arrogant. Apologies if that isn't how you intended it to sound, text-based conversation is a fickle mistress.
Oh, no, I intended it to sound arrogant as hell, because I HAVE put the time and effort into it and do this sort of thing for real, not just talk about it on teh intarweb.
As I said before, I really didn't mean to hijack this thread with my 20+ year experiences with reality, but sometimes the stuff gets so deep ya GOTTA pull it back into some semblance of reason.
And I can see that a good portion of the poor folks reading this thread are getting quickly fed up with all the tech talk -- one of the reasons why I truncated my first post so abruptly. I apologize for the length and technical depth of this post (and honestly, it ISN'T very deep, and far shallower than I could go if given enough time and sufficient visual aids), but if you're gonna plan for a Zombopocalypse, at LEAST have your facts straight so that when and if you go back and think about stupid stuff you read on the internet that you recall in times of crisis in order to pull a MacGyver type maneuver to save your life...
...I can only hope that one or more of my posts with the straight dope helps you do the right thing.
And now, we return to the regularly scheduled hilarity...because I actually kinda hate talking shop here. This is my playtime. I may have mentioned this before.
I always thought for a gun agains zombies a 7.62 would be better than a 5.56 due to the damage it does on a cadaver, smaller bullet just goes straight through causing less damage but a 7.62 will fuck shit up alot more and depending on location bullits might be easier to come by.
See, it's this kind of half-assed reasoning that makes me pull my hair out. Trouble is, I can't tell if he's serious or just fucking with me.
I've read through this thread, but i'm still confused what type of zombies we are being overrun with here?
I'm thinking the sentient, diseased "I am Legend" types, as opposed to the classic shamblers of the "Dawn of the Dead" movies.
please don't start discussing spread, or weight or gage because, you know something? Its utterly and completly dull.
Not to mention utterly useless unless you need it, at which point it becomes pretty damn important. But I agree -- most folks do not, nor will they ever, need to know this kind of information. However, if a situation arises where they DO need to know it, and they don't, their survivability chances plummet.
But you're right. I'm going to try to stop being dull and go back to being delightfully creepy.
Not being able to get out of the city i'm in with my car - Sioux Falls is not yet restructured for it's population and can get very congested during rush hours
You're in the Dakotas? In many ways I envy you; I know what's up there.
What if the zombies are arching their backs?
Uhhh...get a necrophile to sneak up behind them and do the nasty with them from behind so you can run away?
*shrug*
End of GREAT WALL O'TEXT.
With apologies.
S
-
oh, hello there WALL OF TEXT.
(protip: try being more selective in what you choose to respond to, then people might actually start reading the entirity of your posts)
-
try being more selective in what you choose to respond to, then people might actually start reading the entirity of your posts
Sadly, I WAS being selective.
And, what happens to me if people DON'T read my posts?
S
-
WORDS
NO.
GTFO of the zombie thread, It's an airborn virus now and you are fucked.
How much gun knowledge does it take to be immune to a virus?
-
How much gun knowledge does it take to be immune to a virus?
None. Immunity comes from three sources/conditions:
1) Acquired immunity -- either through having the virus and surviving/recovering from it, or being inoculated with a similar or genetically-altered virus that attunes the immune system to respond more aggressively to the virus thus providing sufficient immune response to prevent infection.
2) Hereditary Immunity -- through genetic predisposition to prior generations having had the virus or been vaccinated against it, being passed on to offspring thus creating generations of immune individuals.
3) Herd immunity -- enough individuals in the group are immune through the other two processes that the virus cannot spread, thus protecting the few who are left who are susceptible.
In this particular case, I can see that Acquired Immunity is going to be the option here. Are you saying you're volunteering to test the first vaccine?
Moreover, since the virus is airborn, your primary defense will be a positive-pressure environment from a fresh air source. If you've got filtration capabilities good enough (multiple millipore filters? Multiple HEPA?) then you can disinfect already contaminated air. If you do NOT have filtration capabilities, then you are stuck with a limited supply of breathable air in a tank you've collected before the contamination of the atmosphere. A third option which is a variation of the breathable air, is to use pure oxygen mixed with your own carbon dioxide, where you monitor your Co2 levels and atmospheric pressure to be able to maintain a breathable atmosphere for longer by just releasing oxygen when the CO2 mixture gets too high, and setting up your exhaust system to be at the level where it is mostly Co2 being bled off.
Come to think of it, setting up an air scrubber to actually actively take the Co2 out of the air and keeping the oxygen also might work, especially in conjunction with an oxygen supply. In this manner (scrubber plus oxygen) you get as close to a long term non-renewable breathing source as is practicable.
At that point your best bet is to hope the virus dies without hosts before your air runs out.
If you've planned far enough ahead, you can take two people into a Radius Defense CAT-25 (which is designed for a LOT more people than that), bring in, oh, say a couple DOZEN "M" cylinders of O2 (plenty of space) and, though you wouldn't want to use an open flame, set up the scrubber and the CO2 detector and survive in a semi-sealed overpressure breathable atmosphere for many times the "rated" amount of time listed on the Radius Defense website for breathable air supply in a sealed shelter.
http://www.bomb-shelter.net/cat-25-disaster-bomb-shelter (http://www.bomb-shelter.net/cat-25-disaster-bomb-shelter)
(http://www.bomb-shelter.net/images/stories/cat25/cat25_external.jpg)
Side view of CAT-25 shelter, with drawing of a person for scale.
I think their filter might actually work against the virus:
1. Contaminated air enters the air intake hole on the elliptical hatch dome. It then travels around under the hatch dome where the air velocity slows allowing rain and heavy particles to fall out.
2. Contaminated air then travels into the vertical pipe under the hatch dome and past the ball valve.
3. The contaminated air then travels into the stainless steel micronic washable screen/pre-filter removing more of the heavier particles.
4. The air then travels into the Gas Agent Test Housing where the air can be tested using the M256A chemical agent test kit. A 4 inch white pipe plug is removed to insert the test kit.
5. HEPA FILTER SLEEVE: The contaminated air then travels into the core of the HEPA/Carbon filter designed to remove 99.99% of particles that are 0.3 u (microns) and larger. This is where the carriers of biological warfare agents are removed. The photo shows the HEPA/Carbon sleeve.
6. The air then travels into the activated carbon layer to remove the radioactive iodine gas.
7. The next layer is made of Whetlerite/TEDA carbon to remove any chemical warfare agents.
8. Ultraviolet: Bulb Over View Port The air then passes through a filter fabric to remove any carbon fines.
9. The last stage of filtration after the filter sleeve is the ultraviolet light chamber were viruses and bacteria are exposed to more than 11,000 microwatts seconds/cm2 killing all airborne viruses and bacteria.
10. The filtered air then enters the air blower centrifugal reverse curve motorized impeller and into the shelter.
11. As the air blower pumps filtered air into the shelter, the shelter is slightly pressurized. This positive pressure plus the heat generated in the shelter from body heat, cooking, and showering, forces the spent air to the highest point in shelter near the top of the entranceway.
12. At the top of the entranceway is the air outlet screen where the spent air passes through and up the air pipe and out of the elliptical hatch dome air outlet hole. Some air will pass through and around the hatch cover base because the hatch cover is not intended to be air-tight.
13. As the air passes around the underside of the hatch dome is equilibrates with the outside air. This results in little or no thermal signature because there is little difference between the spent air and ambient air.
And if not...
(http://www.bomb-shelter.net/images/stories/cat25/cat25_sealed_atmosphere.gif)
Sealed Shelter Atmosphere Table.
When ground fires are present around the hatch, the air blower should not be turned on to bring in fresh air. During this time, the shelterists must breathe in a sealed shelter atmosphere. The safe duration time is based on a 3% carbon dioxide limit. The time it takes for the shelter atmosphere to reach this limit is a function of the number of shelterists, degree of physical activity of the number of shelterists, and the volume of the shelter above the floor. This duration is shown above for adults performing mild work.
85 hours for two people. About 165 hours for one person in the relatively cavernous CAT-25, operating under Sealed Shelter Atmosphere conditions.
That's a little under a week. (Week = 168 hrs).
So you have several options in that week to decide how you're going to handle the virus. If, as I stated before, you add oxygen cylinders, and slightly overpressure your interior atmosphere so that it goes only OUT through the exhaust vents and not IN, you could theoretically increase your "sealed shelter atmosphere" conditions several times over. Even more if you scrubbed the air of its Co2 component and replenished it with the bottled oxygen (because then no oxygen would be wasted through exhaust.)
You still might be screwed, but this is one of the more practical options.
S
-
I hate these threads.
It always turns into nerds jacking off about guns.
-
I hate these threads.
It always turns into idiots oversimplifying complex concepts.
Fixed it for you.
S
-
You fire a gun and all the zombies hear it and swarm you and eat you and you die
This is why I am perfectly happy sitting in my vaguely secured house and not worrying about the fact that I can't get my hands on a gun.
-
I don't have a gun. To get one I would have to go to a pub in a scummy part of Glasgow and I don't want to do that.
-
I think the best way to avoid dying in a zombie attack is to move to Scotland.
There is no one there to get infected, really. You could hide out in one of the abandoned little hamlets for years and live off the land and then when it was all over you could declare yourself Laird and be rich.
-
This is quite true, anyone seen 28 days later? my favourite film ever to be made here.
-
It's a well known fact that all Scotsmen are immune to the zombie virus.
-
I hate these threads.
It always turns into nerds jacking off about guns.
Yeah, I hate gun talk. Protip: Anything more involved than "I picked a shotgun because Walmart carries them" will promptly result in eye rolling and gritted teeth.
-
Jens, social astuteness cannot stand in the face of TRUTH.
-
Seriously though people, just skimming over the last page or so, did we start paying by the word?
-
so, ignoring the moronic walls of text bearing down upon us all, i'd just like to brag that i've been practicing axe throwing lately and i am getting pretty good at it, if i do say so myself.
it is alot of fun!
-
After reading this thread lately zombies would be a mercy.
-
Hey!
You!
Yes, you!
Get out of my thread, dammit!
-
You are doing an excellent job killing this thread by posting giant walls of shit nobody cares about. Feel free to continue but keep in mind that nobody wants you to do this.
Funny, I posted the walls of shit in response to someone, therefore someone must care about it. The fact that you don't means something to me, but I'm not sure what; I'll let you know the moment I care, though.
Bottom line, based on first post:
1) Many of us are better prepared for a zombie invasion than others.
2) The zombie invasion could be a euphemism for civil unrest or the result of a disaster.
3) Much of the rage and/or ennui focused at those discussing the finer points of preparation, including firearms choices, could very well be a combination of the lack of entertainment value of such dry material, and the realization of their own inadequacy.
As such, I don't take such things personally anymore; I understand the psychological aspects of it, after reading the essay "Raging against Self-Defense" written by a psychologist on this very phenomenon.
Zombies are hard to eliminate; Harder than people, but their elimination can be accomplished, and an effective defense mounted against them, given enough forethought, a decent game plan, and money.
Therefore, the debate of "are you prepared?" ends and "WHY aren't you prepared?" begins.
S
-
Thought this board had a "No excessive talk about guns because it is creepy" rule?
I just watched 28 weeks later with all the lights turned off at 5AM.
AWESOME.
It told me a few things, but not least that DEFEAT IS IMMINENT as well as your misplaced unwarrented sense of self importance is funny because if a marine gets killed, what chance do you stand really? Enjoy having your brains eaten, If I had a gun I would only need 1 bullet in it as a last resort tbh. Everyone would die.
-
You see, we are just having fun, and nobody actually cares.
Good to know, good to know. I can not care just as much as the rest of you slackers.
It told me a few things, but not least that DEFEAT IS IMMINENT as well as your misplaced unwarrented sense of self importance is funny because if a marine gets killed, what chance do you stand really?
Better than average, I'd say. But as a courtesy to the rest of this thread, I'm going to stop posting Great Walls of Text explaining why.
I'll just say, "I'm so glad you gauge so many things in life based on movies. It seems to suit you well."
So, how about Dem Zombies...think we could get a Football League going? The ZFL?
One of the drawbacks I see is their "end zone dance" looking too much like Michael Jackson's "Thriller."
S
-
I wouldn't need any weapons as my workplace is practically a fortress. Its surrounded by a 25ft high steel fence fitted with barbed metal. To get inside you need to pass through two gates accessed by a fingerprint recognition then a final door that can only be opened by the security guards inside There are then 6 heavy doors operated by a card key to get to the main area. There is plenty of food inside and a backup generator.
-
Zombies are hard to eliminate; Harder than people, but their elimination can be accomplished, and an effective defense mounted against them, given enough forethought, a decent game plan, and money.
Therefore, the debate of "are you prepared?" ends and "WHY aren't you prepared?" begins.
Because zombies are fictional.
[/debate]
-
I'll just say, "I'm so glad you gauge so many things in life based on movies. It seems to suit you well."
Video games, books and the internet too, Where do you get your information about zombies that is OBVIOUSLY a more reliable source? Wikipedia?
-
conclusion: you all spend way too much time thinking about zombies.
-
Not news. I spend way too much time thinking about EVERYTHING.
But hey, whatever.
S
-
No guys, no.
___________\
(http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=5398;type=avatar)
-
What if the zombies are arching their backs?
First question: Is the zombie virus stopped with a trojan.
Second question: are they lesbian zombies?
Third question: Do you know a place that sells good muzzles for humanoid type beings?
-
First answer: Not usually.
Second answer: Hopefully.
Third answer: Yes.
Hope this helps.
S
-
Mr S, are you this man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IwGK_VVS3I&feature=related)? Because this thread is so much better in my head if you are.
On a more serious note, I honestly found the walls of text interesting. Sure it was dry tech stuff, but it was for the most part the practical application of that stuff in the event of a zombie holocaust. That makes it much more ok in my book.
It is intriguing to hear the debate between "hunker down with tons of guns" and "sneak off to somewhere quiet and wait it out". I personally am on the coast, so I've spent the last few days pondering how possible it would be to get to some oil rigs I can see from the beach, and the long-term state thereof.
-
I didn't find it boring either, I actually found it quite fascinating, even though I know full well I'll have no chance of surviving and applying these things anyway.
I live in a large city, have no weapons, training or anything, so I'll be breakfeast for the undead.
-
Oh now, be optimistic. Maybe you'll be brunch!
-
Zombies fucking love mimosa.
-
And the best bit about brunch is that it's just late enough in the day to start eating the brains of alcoholics.