Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Fun Stuff => CHATTER => Topic started by: Allybee on 30 Jul 2009, 18:36

Title: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: Allybee on 30 Jul 2009, 18:36
it's really, really upsetting for me to learn that david ortiz used steroids when he so vehemently spoke out against them. he's having such a poor season and he always seemed like the nicest, most down-to-earth guy... I'm not super into sports but he's always been my favorite athlete.

it's also distressing for me when the new york times breaks the story in a way that highlights steroid usage by red sox players when there was a huge list, including (obviously) arod and clemens. it just is kind of dirty to me that they play the story from the angle "oh, so I guess the 2004 world series win didn't count, huh?"

I mean I'm also bitter that the nyt had bought out the boston globe and recently threatened to get rid of it until they negotiated a pay cut for all involved, but hey, whatever makes them money.
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: Alex C on 31 Jul 2009, 06:50
What's really damning for him is that he fits the profile of a steroids user pretty nicely, so there's pretty much no way you'll convince anyone who isn't extremely Pollyannish that he was doing so unintentionally at some point. I saw him up close more than a few times when he was just a somewhat promising slugger for the Twins and even then he looked like a burly dude who gingerly trundled around like an old man surprisingly often for someone who was (supposed to be) younger than I am now. Basically, his entire career he has been a big guy who's useful mostly for power and yet even early on he was constantly battling nagging the sort of soft tissue injuries that are associated with steroids and over training. A guy like Bonds can use things like HGH and steroids to carefully bulk up, maintain mass and avoid fatigue, but a relatively unestablished guy like Ortiz probably used that increased recovery time to push himself as hard as he could manage, a habit that would explain why he was his wrists were constantly failing him as a Twin. Or he could just have been lying about his age AND using steroids. Whichever.
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: nobo on 31 Jul 2009, 13:57
I've considered steroids before. Not for any sport, just to gain muscle and cut fat. I'm not a fan of needles. And doing it the old natural way seems more rewarding.
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: Alex C on 31 Jul 2009, 15:48
Honestly, I have kind of an antagonistic relationship with current PED policy because frankly I don't think anyone but academics and lawyers really seems to think this shit out, and those are the last people your average slob wants to listen to. I am not entirely convinced that baseball should necessarily be allowed to forbid the use of drugs with a prescription, which is quietly one of the very real consequences of modern sport drug policy. After all, it is already illegal to acquire the vast majority of PEDs without a prescription, ergo, the only thing an explicit drug ban is good for is preventing athletes from using the drugs legally (if you wanted to get rid of someone for using them illegally, all you would have to do is report the failed tests), which frankly is a profound concession to make to an employer when you actually stop to think about the implications for a moment. Consider that the primary benefit of Human Growth Hormone, in stark contrast to steroids, is believed not to lie in strength gains or improved endurance but rather quicker healing and thus a general resistance to wear and tear injuries. For whatever reason we're fine with athletes having all manner of surgery (including vision correction surgeries that in many cases result in better than 20/20 vision) yet a legally prescribed drug that could be argued to improve quality of life by preventing injuries in the first place and extending an athlete's career is verboten. Now, I understand why people would have an issue with this since these sports are competitive by definition and players would feel immense pressure to keep up with the Bondses, but I find it a li'l fucked up that most people won't even consider the issue from a perspective any more nuanced than "Well, the old timers didn't have that shit when they set their records." Yeah, well, just about all the old timers walk with a limp now too. Maybe the current drugs we have available today won't make athletes live happier lives in the long run, but what happens if we do develop drug therapies that could potentially let these guys play without needing a hip replacement by their late 40s? Are we just going to decide our competitive culture trumps individual rights without really even having a discussion about how far is too far?
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: Alex C on 31 Jul 2009, 15:50
Please note that I'm not arguing in favor of letting people do whatever they want or that PEDs should be encouraged. I just really think the way we are fine with guys hurting themselves out on the field but forbid them to potentially hurt themselves with a drug seems kinda fishy.
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: DonInKansas on 01 Aug 2009, 12:00
it's really, really upsetting for me to learn that david ortiz used steroids when he so vehemently spoke out against them.

Why?  He's only about the 20th person to do it.
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 01 Aug 2009, 15:34
Dude, everyone is sports uses performance enhancing drugs, except MAYBE climbers. MAYBE. It can't be a surprise, can it?
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: KharBevNor on 06 Aug 2009, 08:49
This is what you get for investing emotional energy in multi-million dollar playground games.
Title: Re: non-fantasy baseball (steroid use)
Post by: Alex C on 06 Aug 2009, 08:52
What bothers me is when people throw ethics out the window to preserve the perceived integrity of multi-million dollar playground games.