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Fun Stuff => ENJOY => Topic started by: kemon on 22 Aug 2009, 14:35

Title: the other avatar
Post by: kemon on 22 Aug 2009, 14:35
i don't think i've been living under a rock lately, but how come i'm only finding out about this today?

www2.avatarmovie.com
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LeeC on 22 Aug 2009, 16:58
looks good.  Kinda like they mixed the movie Dune with the video game Turok
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Surgoshan on 22 Aug 2009, 17:52
looks good.  Kinda like they mixed the movie Dune with the video game Turok

Comparing something to Turok isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 22 Aug 2009, 17:53
(http://penny-arcade.com/images/1999/19990226h.jpg)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LeeC on 23 Aug 2009, 01:25
looks good.  Kinda like they mixed the movie Dune with the video game Turok

Comparing something to Turok isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

i havnt played the new one.  Only played the one on the N64.  I like the concept/idea behind turok.  Primitive tribes that fight dinos and anthropomorphic baddies using a mix of primitive and futuristic weapons.  Was the new turok anygood?

moving on, This looks at least interesting.  Kinda confused on what happens.  Did the wheel chair dude fuse with the blue dude like archons in star craft?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 23 Aug 2009, 01:40
Looks good
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 23 Aug 2009, 02:23
I really didn't like the trailer one bit.  It was too....ambiguous for me.  There was really nothing in that entire trailer that has convinced me to see this film. I'll wait till I see and hear more before I decide. 
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 23 Aug 2009, 07:39
Looks like bad ass sci-fi, directed by James Cameron. I'll be seeing it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Sox on 23 Aug 2009, 07:47
the first two Turok games on the N64 were fantastic. Rage Wars was a good party game. I hear they all sucked after that.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: variable_star on 23 Aug 2009, 09:55
There was really nothing in that entire trailer that has convinced me to see this film. 

Agreed. But while I'm not convinced "Avatar" will be a memorable film, it's definitely got my attention.

Entertainment Weekly has a good write-up about the preview footage:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/08/22/avatar-day-james-cameron/ (http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/08/22/avatar-day-james-cameron/)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Melodic on 23 Aug 2009, 17:49
Avatar's been in development hell for, what, a decade?

Considering the dude literally had to wait for technology to catch up to his dream, I will probably see this.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Sox on 26 Aug 2009, 15:07
Like George Lucas! Hahah! Yes!
In a perfect world this movie won't suck, but I have misfortunes and so I am not optimistic for this new film!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on 26 Aug 2009, 18:50
I've seen a bunch of James Cameron's films. I've never really been disappointed by him like I have been with Lucas or Spielberg. Even when he brings out Director's Cut versions of his films they just end up 40 minutes longer and more badass so I'm looking forward to this.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 26 Aug 2009, 23:23
As far as his sci-fi stuff goes, The Abyss and the first Terminator have been fantastic.  I saw the trailer again after reading the premise and a bit of the plot on wikipedia and it made a lot more sense, the trailer does a horrible job of helping you at all.  I'm actually starting to get a little bit more excited about this film but I'd like to see a lot more. I'm not worried about it sucking. I'm just worried that it's not going to be amazing.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 26 Aug 2009, 23:37
Well, the special effects alone will be amazing.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 26 Aug 2009, 23:44
Also, it's meant to be seen in 3D, so if the 2D trailer looks kind of flat and funky, that's why.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: talen wolf on 28 Aug 2009, 08:42
My biggest issue is with who is directing it. M Night Smgsedlrughalkfjg however you spell his last name isnt known for making blockbuster movies...hes known for have really screwed up and lame endings.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Reed on 28 Aug 2009, 08:49
I believe you are looking for this (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,23452.0.html) thread.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Blue Kitty on 28 Aug 2009, 10:03
I don't really know about this movie.  From the trailer the animation is going to be amazing, but everything else just feels underwhelming.


Also, I think George Lucas could sue
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/783/georgelucascansue.jpg)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 28 Aug 2009, 17:30
I might dig this movie if only I knew what it was about. What's up with that trailer? It really didn't tell me anything, aside from that it looks pretty. For all I know it could be about Atlantis emerging from the sea with the Atlanteans going to war.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 28 Aug 2009, 20:42
Wikiiiiipediaaaaa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film))
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: talen wolf on 01 Sep 2009, 13:20
I believe you are looking for this (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,23452.0.html) thread.

Reed...Im sorry you are correct.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: ty.pitre on 05 Sep 2009, 22:31
The trailer looked a bit CG-rompish to me. If it's meant to be seen in 3d, that worries me a little. I really don't think technology is quite ready for these movies yet.

We're not at the point where real life actors can still be easily replaced by CG ones, and that's what this movie looks like. I still prefer make-up and "gorilla" suits to the new CG creatures in film. The first Underworld had the werewolves as real people in power-operated suits, and they looked great. The new Underworlds have crappy werewolves.

Avatar looks great, and I'll be seeing it, but I still think we're a good five years away from life convincing animation. It just 'feels' fake, still.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 16 Sep 2009, 23:14
I might dig this movie if only I knew what it was about. What's up with that trailer? It really didn't tell me anything, aside from that it looks pretty. For all I know it could be about Atlantis emerging from the sea with the Atlanteans going to war.
The New World.....in SPACE!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: MrSteevo on 17 Sep 2009, 07:56
Anyone else get reminded of Pocahontas when they read the plot?
I mean, come on, replace blue men with native americans and the broken leg guy with John Smith, and it's the same.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 17 Sep 2009, 13:13
The trailer looked a bit CG-rompish to me. If it's meant to be seen in 3d, that worries me a little. I really don't think technology is quite ready for these movies yet.

We're not at the point where real life actors can still be easily replaced by CG ones, and that's what this movie looks like. I still prefer make-up and "gorilla" suits to the new CG creatures in film. The first Underworld had the werewolves as real people in power-operated suits, and they looked great. The new Underworlds have crappy werewolves.

Avatar looks great, and I'll be seeing it, but I still think we're a good five years away from life convincing animation. It just 'feels' fake, still.

Well, they spent the better part of the decade working on it, so I don't think it's going to pull some Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within shit. All I know is that I'm in film school right now, a couple of my instructors and fellow students went to see some footage, and they said it was mindblowing.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ballard on 17 Sep 2009, 19:31
The trailer looked a bit CG-rompish to me. If it's meant to be seen in 3d, that worries me a little. I really don't think technology is quite ready for these movies yet.

We're not at the point where real life actors can still be easily replaced by CG ones, and that's what this movie looks like. I still prefer make-up and "gorilla" suits to the new CG creatures in film. The first Underworld had the werewolves as real people in power-operated suits, and they looked great. The new Underworlds have crappy werewolves.

Avatar looks great, and I'll be seeing it, but I still think we're a good five years away from life convincing animation. It just 'feels' fake, still.

Still waiting 'till Roland Emmerich makes a movie called Uncanny Valley.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 31 Oct 2009, 00:28
New Trailer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=cRdxXPV9GNQ)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LeeC on 31 Oct 2009, 08:33
That new trailer is SWEET!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on 31 Oct 2009, 17:35
I feel a little silly because it's not like I needed to be convinced further to see this film and yet, BAM! I am more convinced.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 01 Nov 2009, 04:40
Hell yeah! That's the stuff!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Theriandros on 01 Nov 2009, 09:36
the first Terminator

That was James Cameron? Man, I am now a thousand times more interested in this movie after learning that that guy's famous productions are not limited to Titanic.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 01 Nov 2009, 19:15
New trailer makes me want to see it more. But only in IMAX.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: kemon on 01 Nov 2009, 23:52
i dunno.  the first trailer i saw looked pretty good, like the cg was done well enough to not look cg.   the new trailer looks cg.   still gonna see it though.  just a little lower expectations now.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 03 Nov 2009, 00:05
I was really curious when I first started hearing some things and then i saw the newer and longer trailer.  Never has a trailer dashed my hopes so badly.  The potential for this to be an absolutely amazing film is incredible and the fact that he's waited so long for this to happen....and what does it look like we're getting? Romeo and Juliet with aliens.  It's also looking like he's borrowing from a short sci-fi story called Call Me Joe by Poul Anderson.  I just hope that there's a lot more to the story that what there appears to be. 
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 03 Nov 2009, 00:13
You've seen a James Cameron film before, right?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Dazed on 18 Dec 2009, 23:03
So yeah, go see this movie. It's the most visually stunning and beautiful thing I've ever looked at.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: sean on 18 Dec 2009, 23:10
if i see it should i expect the plot to be paper thin sci fi bullshit or should i expect something halfway decent?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: pilsner on 18 Dec 2009, 23:14
You don't go to this movie for the plot.  The element they are harvesting is called "Unobtainium."
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 18 Dec 2009, 23:20
Dances With Wolves+The Last Samurai+Halo=Avatar.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Melodic on 18 Dec 2009, 23:25
Who fucking cares, it's $237 million dollar's worth of fucking gorgeous.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: sean on 18 Dec 2009, 23:46
okay but it better be worth 2 hours of gorgeous

cause i probably am gonna see this it looks too pretty or whatever
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 19 Dec 2009, 01:03
okay but it better be worth 2 hours of gorgeous

cause i probably am gonna see this it looks too pretty or whatever
2 1/2 hours of gorgeous.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 19 Dec 2009, 12:07
saw it in 3d last night and i was (and still am) extremely pleasantly surprised. it was pretty amazing.

i wasn't expecting much but damn it all if it didn't surprise me.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 19 Dec 2009, 12:54
Dances With Wolves+The Last Samurai+Halo=Avatar.

My brother prefers to compare it to Ferngully.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: FIXDIX on 19 Dec 2009, 13:00
Fuck, I was just about to upload the movie poster of that.

Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 19 Dec 2009, 13:07
Who fucking cares, it's $237 million dollar's worth of fucking gorgeous.

I care. I kinda hate video games aside from game play, and the advance buzz feels like a $300 million video game plot stretched over two and a half hours. I'm just not really into visuals for the sake of visuals. Unless I get confirmation that it's paced a helluva lot better than I fear it is, I will probably be giving it a miss.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: pilsner on 19 Dec 2009, 14:21
Go drunk with friends who like bad movies.  You can't lose.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 19 Dec 2009, 15:17
I will take crisp high definition visuals in motion over 3-D any day of the week.  A lot of the visuals they seemed to deem unimportant so when the camera moves they become all blurry.  It seemed that James Cameron's priorities were in the couple of key scenes.  The visuals were spectacular in those but were suffered in other areas.  And it really, really needs to be said how pretty the Na'vi are.  They are so lifelike and there was no sense of uncanny valley at all, it was awesome.  Also, they dress up in paint at a few points in the movie and my jaw was pretty much on the floor.

That being said the movie itself was one of the worst things I've seen this year.  James Cameron NEEDED someone to, at the VERY least, look at his script and say "Wow James, you suck at writing anything."  There were no characters, the plot was horrible (I called every. single. thing. before it happened, something that I barely ever do)  and the worst part was how completely unimaginative it is.

For 15 years in development you would think that Cameron would have been more creative than Native Americans who have horses and birds that resemble butterflies.  I kept wondering to myself "what would this movie have been in the hands of almost any other director?"  There are SO many great films in Avatar, all of them are touched on with a couple things of dialogue but nothing more.  What could these awesome movies have been? There might be slight spoilers but if you're angry at me for spoiling the plot of Avatar then there might be something wrong with your priorities.

1. No military, it's a love and coming of age story between Jake Sully and the Na'vi chick.  I would have paid money to see this one.  And it seems, for the entire middle of the story, that this is the film that James Cameron wants to make....but then there's all this military stuff and it ruins everything.

2. Play with his legs.  Jake Sully is in a wheelchair, it could have been a major part of the story and his character....but it's not really.  They offer to give him his legs back at one point but he refuses because he has other stuff to do. And he makes the decision so easily, so readily.  Instead of being something that could have injected humanity into the film they skip over it and then never touch it again.

3. He goes slowly crazy as he loses all aspects of his self-identity.  This is sort of touched on, it's mentioned a few times but it never, ever, becomes a big deal. This bothered me quite a bit, they could have done some absolutely great things with it.

4. Big Dumb Action Movie.  Obviously this is the film that had the highest likelihood of being made. It's funny because it seems like this was what the film was but it isn't.  I'm glad it wasn't this because with a 14A rating the violence in the film is completely and utterly unsatisfying.  People have been raving about the action scenes in this film but James Cameron has missed a lot of action films in the past 15 years since he's made a film and needs to play some SERIOUS catchup. 

For me, the film was just a series of giantly missed opportunities.  I guess visuals don't really phase me, 3-D is cool but the sacrifice for definition is way too much.  I went in not expecting any kind of story at all but I felt like the movie was teasing me all the way through.  Telling me "oh, we could have a really good plot twist or maybe even some character development right...here. But we're not going to."  I guess I really just realized that I would much rather have a good story than 250 million dollars worth of visuals any day of the week.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: pilsner on 19 Dec 2009, 15:34
Great post.  I think I'm going to have double the amount of vodka I was going to drink before seeing this.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 19 Dec 2009, 17:00
Didn't they do the same for District 9? Make it more actiony I mean.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: sean on 19 Dec 2009, 18:16
so im thinking go stoned y/n?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 19 Dec 2009, 18:48
I'm sure the colors would be more pretty if you did.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Dimmukane on 19 Dec 2009, 19:27
this is an idea

i might borrow it
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 20 Dec 2009, 16:25
I saw it today! (I was sober.) It was a really pretty film and actually I liked the story, though yes it could have been better. But mostly I was too mesmerized by the effects to really notice. Seriously, it is a very pretty film.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Retrospectre on 21 Dec 2009, 00:32
P.S. Unobtanium is a laughably terrible name.

Not saying it's not stupid but;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium#Science_fiction
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 21 Dec 2009, 00:51
Ok, yeah, wow, that was a great review of the movie, although I really do like True Lies.  I'll be seeing this film again with my sister in the next week and I'll see what else I come away with.  Also, I think the fact that I have glasses kills the 3-D a bit, or am I just a little nuts? 
uly
I think I agree with two parts of that review very strongly.  The first is that Cameron never utilizes his technology well, I would have preferred the film to just be flat and I honestly don't think I'd miss anything at all.  I don't really appreciate having to pay like...4 more bucks for a movie ticket when the movie doesn't truly take advantage of this "amazing" technology.

The other thing I strongly agree with is that Cameron wastes a lot of time with his scenes.  The movie is insanely predictable and goes on for far longer than necessary.  And even with all that there isn't a strong enough sense of conclusion and it doesn't really explain itself well enough.  It was frustrating because I was so bored during many scenes and yet I wanted explanations for other things.

Also, after reading this article I think that James Cameron is a complete idiot.

http://gawker.com/5403302/james-cameron-reveals-his-quest-to-build-more-perfect-cgi-boobs (http://gawker.com/5403302/james-cameron-reveals-his-quest-to-build-more-perfect-cgi-boobs)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 21 Dec 2009, 00:57
Whatever man, boobs are the most important part of a character.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 21 Dec 2009, 01:01
Really though, this is Playboy we're talking about. What do you think the interview was going to be about?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Caleb on 22 Dec 2009, 12:24
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4910/271782-guardian_super.jpg)
AVATAR!

KNOW THAT CGI BOOBS ARE IMPORTANT!



(Does anyone else here even get that joke?)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 22 Dec 2009, 12:48
Nope.

This movie was amazing. Visually stunning, completely engaging, incredibly fun, funny in parts, touching in others, and god damn do I want to go to that planet. Possibly go to that planet and take some MDMA.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 22 Dec 2009, 22:44
(Does anyone else here even get that joke?)

I giggled. But I've got so used to "avatar" being used in an online/virtual context that I've long ago stopped automatically thinking of the Ultima series every time I hear the word. Shame on me.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 23 Dec 2009, 06:44
Saw thiws with my oldest as an early Christmas present for him. 

In IMAX 3d the visual effects are absolutely stunning.  The story left me "meh" though.  It was A Man Called Horse and Dances With Wolves with aliens and really pretty explosions.  Still, it is an entertaining flick and is definitely worth seeing.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 23 Dec 2009, 22:48
Went and saw this in 3-D today.

Enjoyed it muchly.  Visually stunning and enjoyed it in 3-D.  Story is a bit cheesy in places, but well worth it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 26 Dec 2009, 15:32
Avatar's CGI is amazing! I can't wait for someone to make a movie with it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 26 Dec 2009, 15:50
Im in awe at the haters in here. Like James Cameron did something personally to you. The movie was a great fun story with beautiful effects. Saying things like "The first is that Cameron never utilizes his technology well, I would have preferred the film to just be flat and I honestly don't think I'd miss anything at all.  I don't really appreciate having to pay like...4 more bucks for a movie ticket when the movie doesn't truly take advantage of this "amazing" technology. "

Are dumb on many levels. Starting with, you dont have to see the movie in 3D, its optional. And 3D technology, the literal limits of a flat image being projected into 3D is that there can only be two depths, one for each eye. Your brain gets confused and slams it into a single image. James Cameron didnt do that to you nature did by only giving us two eyes. You want true 3D, you will have to wait until they can project a 3rd dimension, an image that actually has volume.

Everyone who gave a reason why they hated it so far appear to be complete wankers. This movie does an exemplary job at everything it sets out to to. If thats not something you dont like. Dont blame the movie or James Cameron, after all, if you dont like dogs, its makes a particularly bad argument when you say things like "I hate that dog for being a dog and not being a cat, because I like cats".
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 26 Dec 2009, 15:57
You're defending "unobtainium?"

Really?

I like my blockbuster cheese as much as the next guy, but we're talking about the same director who did Aliens and T2: Judgment Day. I expect a higher caliber of story from him.

That being said, I'm still glad I saw it, because the graphics are pretty much the greatest thing (especially what they did with water... holy shit). But... come on, Cameron. You're better than unobtainium. That "script" just absolutely reeked of lazy.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 26 Dec 2009, 16:00
Also:

Not saying it's not stupid but;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium#Science_fiction

The only film example they have is The Core. That should set off alarm bells...
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 26 Dec 2009, 16:21
You know what, I especially enjoyed the use of 'unobtainium'. It made it perfectly clear what it was without any for of explanation really needed. Unobtanium is worth 20m a kilo, plot of the antagonist outlined, moving on. And its casual breaking the 4th wall by including the reason it matters in its name. Well unobtainium sounds like unobtainable which implies it is extremely rare or doesnt exist, it exists because they are mining it case closed.

If you want to know what bothered me the most, aside from an overly antagonizing antagonist was the fact that a movie with such an archetypal video game plot could have a crappy video game pairing. Oh and also, I wouldve liked Paul Reiser play Giovanni Ribisi's character since he played that role in Aliens and because I like Giovanni Ribisi and I like hating Paul Reiser. But that is just personal preference.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 26 Dec 2009, 18:35
I definitely damned the movie with faint praise.  Still, it wasn't dreck, the characters were just flat - their critical characteristics were set practically immediately on introduction, and played their set roles out.  Not a problem.  The movie is able to succeed despite that flaw - visually it is a masterwork, the acting is competant, the story (while predictable) is internally consistent and the final fight scene is good.

Overall, 3 out of 5
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 26 Dec 2009, 19:51
its makes a particularly bad argument when you say things like "I hate that dog for being a dog and not being a cat, because I like cats".

Actually, no, it doesn't. It's actually a pretty cogent argument to say that you don't like something because it's not like the things that you do enjoy. But really, that's beside the point. I really just wish you would quit calling people who disagree with you wankers roughly every 3 months like clockwork.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 26 Dec 2009, 19:54
They dont have to agree with me. But there reasons should either be, "I dont like this kind of movie" if they dont like this kind of movie, or have actual legitimate complaints.

*edit*

And that three month rule has more to do with people having poorly outlined reasons for disliking something at sub-culturally obvious times (lamenting the loss of Family Guy when it goes off the air, but when it returns with too much popularity having an 'I have always hated it for being dumb', stance).
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 26 Dec 2009, 20:09
But do you not see how that's a bit of a sweeping generalization on your part? The weaknesses in a given film or series exist independent of the perceived wankery of the audience, and as such there can be a conversation on those weaknesses without having to turn it into a dick waving contest about who is the most sincere in their feelings about a given work.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 26 Dec 2009, 20:53
Im going to back off from this one, because after a stern re-read of this thread, it seems to be one post whose posts were largely free of opinions and full of facts that are patently wrong.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 26 Dec 2009, 21:00
I'm probably overreacting as well, particularly on the bringing up old threads stuff. Sorry.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 26 Dec 2009, 21:03
Lets hug it out
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 27 Dec 2009, 20:38
Hey, even I  realise not everyone is gonna like a movie.

Hell, yer talking to the guy who walked out on An American Werewolf In London  because he found it BORING!

And thinks Paul Verhoven should be publicly flogged for Starship Troopers
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 27 Dec 2009, 21:03
Hell, yer talking to the guy who walked out on An American Werewolf In London  because he found it BORING!

We will never be friends.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ozymandias on 27 Dec 2009, 21:23
Man.

The entire movie created a cognitive dissonance in my head of Terrans vs. Night Elves and oh my god I want a Warcraft or Starcraft or both movie so bad now.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 27 Dec 2009, 21:57
It would be so fun to work on a starcraft movie right now. Then again I'm really high so a lot of things that  sound really good right on paper probably would turn out to be shit.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 27 Dec 2009, 22:00
I stand by my opinions 100%.  I had the chance to see it again with my sister but it was completely sold out.  The IMAX version was sold out for two whole days in advance.  That is nuts.  

I'm glad that there are people who have really enjoyed this movie.  I like it when people can enjoy a movie that I don't, it makes for awesome discussion and  I love hearing people's opinions.  I think that the reasons I gave out for not liking the film are still quite solid and being called a wanker because I didn't like a movie.  I'm not calling you out Chesire because peace is all good but it's a movie and in the end not one that matters.  Although there is one point I would love to clarify, the absolute last one.  When something comes out that is supposed to revolutionize the way movies are made and how the movie was made to be in 3-D, why would I not go and see it in 3-D?  I am completely allowed to criticize the movie if it wasn't really that great.  I would be an absolute idiot if I chose to watch the movie twice in 3-D.  

I also have some questions.

1. How will this work on DVD?  Won't they have to un-3-D it?  Won't they completely undermine much of the appeal of the film?

and the other one, and this involves Spoilers so....whatever.

2.  What is stopping the company from coming back, completely obliterating everything from space and then harvesting their wonderful mineral?  The army guys were really just mercenaries, so why not just hire a crapload more of them and firebomb the hell out of the aliens.  It's not like they're people.  Think about how much money all that mineral under the tree is worth.  
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 27 Dec 2009, 22:32
Hell, yer talking to the guy who walked out on An American Werewolf In London  because he found it BORING!

We will never be friends.
EVER
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 27 Dec 2009, 22:42
And thinks Paul Verhoven should be publicly flogged for Starship Troopers
Be very glad they have yet to invent a means of stabbing someone over the internet.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 27 Dec 2009, 22:59
Look, if he wanted to make an anti-fascist satire movie, that's fine. He shouldn't have been signed on to make it out of the Starship Troopers book. Now nobody knows about the books, just the movie, which pisses me off, because everyone assumes they are exactly the same.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 27 Dec 2009, 23:05
Hell, yer talking to the guy who walked out on An American Werewolf In London  because he found it BORING!

We will never be friends.
EVER


Awwww comeon, I'm really a nice guy at heart

*rips out heart*

See?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Jace on 28 Dec 2009, 02:30
2.  What is stopping the company from coming back, completely obliterating everything from space and then harvesting their wonderful mineral?  The army guys were really just mercenaries, so why not just hire a crapload more of them and firebomb the hell out of the aliens.  It's not like they're people.  Think about how much money all that mineral under the tree is worth.  


The same sort of thing that is stopping the US from dropping nukes all over the middle east to harvest oil, the fact that there is intelligent life and that people know that (it can be assumed that people would know there is intelligent life on the planet after the company was run off).
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 28 Dec 2009, 02:48
And thinks Paul Verhoven should be publicly flogged for Starship Troopers
You have no love of satire. Boo-hoo.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 28 Dec 2009, 04:10
And thinks Paul Verhoven should be publicly flogged for Starship Troopers
You have no love of satire. Boo-hoo.
Way to jump to conclusions. It's one thing to like satire. It's another to like it when some director signs on for a movie based off of a book he never read, reads part of it, decides he doesn't like it, and instead of stepping down for someone that will actually do something with the book, gets together with his buddy from Robocop and shits out some generic satire that has nothing to do with the book. I liked the book.

Do you like Vonnegut? What would your reaction be if they made a film adaptation of Cat's Cradle, and made it into a light-hearted kid's movie?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 28 Dec 2009, 11:22
Exactly

It's one thing to make a lighthearted satire or humorous movie off a classic, it's another thing to take said classic and butcher is so much that you wouldn't mind getting your hands on a Powered Armour suit and chase Verhoven down in it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 28 Dec 2009, 11:24
Do you like Vonnegut? What would your reaction be if they made a film adaptation of Cat's Cradle, and made it into a light-hearted kid's movie?

Would watch this
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 28 Dec 2009, 15:34
I read Starship Troopers earlier this year and the movie would have essentially boiled down to the main guy sitting in lectures for most of the movie. It's not a book that would have translated well to a movie in any kind of way. 

I would not watch any movie version of Vonnegut.  Ever.  The thought of it makes my skin crawl a little bit because I think I might stop liking the book if I saw a movie of it. 
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 28 Dec 2009, 17:39
Fahrenheit 451 actually got made into a Film if memory serves.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Reed on 28 Dec 2009, 17:49
Wait, you are joking....right? Please tell me you are joking.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 28 Dec 2009, 17:55
No he is not (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0360556/)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Reed on 28 Dec 2009, 17:56
I was actually referring to the fact that Ray Bradbury wrote Fahrenheit 451, not Kurt Vonnegut.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ozymandias on 28 Dec 2009, 18:22
Breakfast of Champions got made into a movie. It wasn't very good, but did have Bruce Willis!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: ruyi on 28 Dec 2009, 20:04
2.  What is stopping the company from coming back, completely obliterating everything from space and then harvesting their wonderful mineral?

Nothing! Hence the possibility of sequels.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 28 Dec 2009, 20:06
1. How will this work on DVD?  Won't they have to un-3-D it?  Won't they completely undermine much of the appeal of the film?

I didn't see it in 3D because 1) I wear glasses and 2) 3D gives me headaches and really I enjoyed it "flat". I don't think it'll lose much in transition other than what ever movie has - it shrinks down a whole lot and sometimes the magic of the movie just isn't as present.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Slick on 28 Dec 2009, 20:18
Just saw, quite good. I think this film was remarkable for it's excellent use of 3D technology. There weren't many gratuitous 'oh hey it's THREE-DEE zoomZOOMzoom' moments, and I think it really enhanced the CGI. Definitely to see in 3D.
Plot was heavily predictable, but not all films will be amazing on plot. It was highly enjoyable, and I would recommend catching it in 3D at the theatre.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: StaedlerMars on 28 Dec 2009, 20:45
1. How will this work on DVD?  Won't they have to un-3-D it?  Won't they completely undermine much of the appeal of the film?

I didn't see it in 3D because 1) I wear glasses and 2)

They have larger glasses for people with glasses!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 28 Dec 2009, 21:13
No he is not (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0360556/)
I actually watched that for a paper, we had to write a paper based off of the interpersonal relations in some list of media, but book wasn't in there because of the lack of visual subtext, so I wrote about the movie, and used the book for some comparisons and differences.

It isn't a bad movie, although I must say I like the Clarisse character better in the book, rather than the movie. The jetpack firemen rather than the mechanical hound was also pretty stupid, although I imagine they didn't have the budget to make a decent-looking hound.

They're also planning on making a movie out of it again, although that has been in development hell for about as long as I have been alive.

Yeah, linds, the glasses fit over my glasses just fine. I would have probably preferred it without the 3d, though, it is distracting. It was better used than a lot of 3d stuff, but it still broke my immersion too often.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 28 Dec 2009, 21:26
Yeah, I'm still of the opinion that 3-d in movies is pretty damn optional. Even movies that leverage it well and can live with some of the technical limitations are still usually pretty neat to look at with or without the 3-d, which ironically renders it a bit superfluous. For example, Coraline used lower tech 3-d than Avatar and it still looked impressive because the subject matter and art design didn't really need super saturated colors to be effective. But with that said, nobody would have been interested in looking at it in 3-d if they didn't have good art design to begin with.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 28 Dec 2009, 21:49
1. How will this work on DVD?  Won't they have to un-3-D it?  Won't they completely undermine much of the appeal of the film?

I didn't see it in 3D because 1) I wear glasses and 2)

They have larger glasses for people with glasses!

Awesome, I'll look like a super nerd
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 28 Dec 2009, 22:10
Breakfast of Champions got made into a movie. It wasn't very good, but did have Bruce Willis!

When did bacon and eggs get made into a movie?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 28 Dec 2009, 22:25
And thinks Paul Verhoven should be publicly flogged for Starship Troopers
You have no love of satire. Boo-hoo.
Way to jump to conclusions. It's one thing to like satire. It's another to like it when some director signs on for a movie based off of a book he never read, reads part of it, decides he doesn't like it, and instead of stepping down for someone that will actually do something with the book, gets together with his buddy from Robocop and shits out some generic satire that has nothing to do with the book. I liked the book.

Do you like Vonnegut? What would your reaction be if they made a film adaptation of Cat's Cradle, and made it into a light-hearted kid's movie?
First, poor attempt, I guess, at being humorous. Secondly throwing taste to the wayside while I would hate it as an adaptation if done right I could see an enjoyable kiddie friendly version of Cat's Cradle. Just separate from what it is being adapted from.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: David_Dovey on 29 Dec 2009, 00:17
Then why call it by the same title or anything (is I think the point that was being made the whole time)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 29 Dec 2009, 11:35
Good sounding title?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 29 Dec 2009, 15:44
I just got back from seeing it. I will talk about it now.

There will be spoilers.

Everywhere.

You have been warned.

I got first row seats because I was late, so that didn't do much to improve the movie, especially having only a part of my field of view in full 3D and the rest shifted out of polarity. Still, I can safely say the movie met my expectations. Paper-thin plot+characters, gorgeous beauty and impressive animation. I am particularly impressed by the small details of some of the aspects of life on the planet, like how the Pandora atmosphere coming in contact with the indoors atmosphere makes ripples. As for the rest, the animation was nearly flawless. You know how sometimes computer animations don't quite seem to follow the laws of momentum and inertia? Stuff like that stands out like a flare to me, but I don't remember noticing any flaws in this movie. The suspension of disbelief just lasts and lasts.

The amount of imagination and thought that was put into Pandora was very good too. Sure, on one hand you have the name "Pandora", six-legged horses, six-legged dogs, six-legged-other-fauna, big blue men, air jellyfish, dragons. That's taking earth and mixing things up a bit. But on the other, you have trees with nervous systems that create a brain-biosphere, domestication that relies on linking on the neuron level, and bioluminescent, well, everything. I liked that a lot. But seeing how they made a big deal about the linking, I was expecting it to happen with the sex, too. Was anyone else?

And then the final battle. After Grace died, and actually stayed dead - which is always a suspenseful event these days when the near-dead get miraculously saved, or not - I didn't think they would pull off the cheesiest, softiest, Snowy-White-esque twist ever by having the goddamn forest creatures come to the rescue. Holy crap.

Oh, and apparently the biggest budgeted movie of all time made a profit days after release! Also holy crap.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 29 Dec 2009, 18:07
I also just saw it. I went in expecting an action movie, I got what I wanted. It's better than Inglorious Basterds at any rate.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 30 Dec 2009, 11:39
The amount of imagination and thought that was put into Pandora was very good too. Sure, on one hand you have the name "Pandora", six-legged horses, six-legged dogs, six-legged-other-fauna, big blue men, air jellyfish, dragons. That's taking earth and mixing things up a bit. But on the other, you have trees with nervous systems that create a brain-biosphere, domestication that relies on linking on the neuron level, and bioluminescent, well, everything. I liked that a lot. But seeing how they made a big deal about the linking, I was expecting it to happen with the sex, too. Was anyone else?

I hear they'll be showing that on the DVD.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 30 Dec 2009, 11:44
I went alone, got bored, and left. It is pretty though. Also, to be fair, I saw 3/4s of the movie before leaving, so I actually do sorta think I got my money's worth. I probably wouldn't have left if I didn't have other things to get done at home that would benefit from a li'l more time spent.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 30 Dec 2009, 13:57
The amount of imagination and thought that was put into Pandora was very good too. Sure, on one hand you have the name "Pandora", six-legged horses, six-legged dogs, six-legged-other-fauna, big blue men, air jellyfish, dragons. That's taking earth and mixing things up a bit. But on the other, you have trees with nervous systems that create a brain-biosphere, domestication that relies on linking on the neuron level, and bioluminescent, well, everything. I liked that a lot. But seeing how they made a big deal about the linking, I was expecting it to happen with the sex, too. Was anyone else?

I hear they'll be showing that on the DVD.

There better be neurotransmitters oozing all over the screen.

Most of you probably didn't get subtitles of any sort, but I wonder whose decision it was to style the subtitles of Na'vi speech in Papyrus font.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 30 Dec 2009, 19:30
My first reaction to seeing the papyrus was, "What, are you seriously too lazy now to come up with your own font?" Mostly because I really just don't like that font, but still, even a less recognizable one would have been better.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 30 Dec 2009, 19:41
Comic Sans FTW  :-o
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 31 Dec 2009, 04:30
Oh, so the un-subtitled ones got Papyrus fonts too? I figured it only served to distinguish English from Na'vi, but in a movie with otherwise no subtitles, I don't see why a regular font couldn't do.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: StaedlerMars on 31 Dec 2009, 04:36
Most of you probably didn't get subtitles of any sort, but I wonder whose decision it was to style the subtitles of Na'vi speech in Papyrus font.

Actually, this was my only really negative reaction to the movie.

I cringed every time they appeared.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: usmcnavgeek on 31 Dec 2009, 15:59
I loved the shit out of this film.  The story is nothing special.  But the experience is something else.  I saw it in 3D, and it's like looking through a window.  The CG is as close to flawless as can be done; after about 15 minutes I was ready to believe that there was this other world somewhere and Cameron had gone and sent a film crew to it.

This review (http://www.awardsdaily.com/?p=17141) (which isn't really a review, exactly) really sums up how I felt exiting the theater.  I'm not going to go super hyperbolic and say "this is my generation's Star Wars," but it's up there.  If you want to go into it with a smug sense of "I'm better than this movie and I'm not going to let it be good" then hey, you're probably not going to like it.

But if you go to it ready to experience the "magic of cinema," and be transported to another world, then you will not be disappointed.

Also on a completely different note, this writeup (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091223/LETTERS/912239997) by a Ph.D biologist is an interesting take on the movie.

And speaking of Ph.D's, I like that they got a USC linguistics professor to create the Na'vi language from scratch (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/11/usc-professor-creates-alien-language-for-avatar.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+The_Hero_Complex+%28The+Hero+Complex%29&utm_content=Google+Reader).  Say what you will, but Cameron does have some serious attention to detail.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 31 Dec 2009, 20:02
usmcnavgeek, that second link is, for some reason, not working for me.  It won't load and keeps white screening on me.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: lprkn on 31 Dec 2009, 20:25
2.  What is stopping the company from coming back, completely obliterating everything from space and then harvesting their wonderful mineral?  The army guys were really just mercenaries, so why not just hire a crapload more of them and firebomb the hell out of the aliens.  It's not like they're people.  Think about how much money all that mineral under the tree is worth.  

According to the movie, it takes like 5 years to get to Pandora, so there will be new civilians and mercenaries landing for awhile. So, sequel.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Muppet King on 31 Dec 2009, 21:29
  Say what you will, but Cameron does have some serious attention to detail.

Except the part where the oxygen poor atmosphere feeds flames.

Or the part when the Colonel is on fire and the flames go out when he moves to an oxygen rich environment instead of causing him to practically explode.

Or the part where an oxygen deprived brain suffers no consequences.

I'm sure there were more, but it's been a while since I saw it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 01 Jan 2010, 03:42
  Say what you will, but Cameron does have some serious attention to detail.

Except the part where the oxygen poor atmosphere feeds flames.

Or the part when the Colonel is on fire and the flames go out when he moves to an oxygen rich environment instead of causing him to practically explode.

Or the part where an oxygen deprived brain suffers no consequences.

I'm sure there were more, but it's been a while since I saw it.

So what you are saying is that on a planet with four-winged dragonbutterflies and every creature has a natural neural link (which, if it gave an advantage survival-wise over not having one, could happen over a long period of time, even the seemingly universal compatibility), there is absolutely no possibility that there could be elements in the air that burn with little to no oxygen?

When does he go into an oxygen-rich environment? Could be it was supposed to be turbulence blowing out the flames, which weren't exactly huge to begin with (although I would have loved to see him get engulfed and killed by the explosion he jumps out of, just for a change of pace).

I'd say the brain thing can be handwaved with 22nd century medicine, considering that they seem to be able to genetically engineer a creature out of DNA from two types of creatures with no relation to each other at all.

I'd say that the jumping out of a low pressure fireball thing was more of a glaring flaw, but that is one of those where you can't exactly blame them, because it is so universal that people expect it now.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 01 Jan 2010, 05:56
  Say what you will, but Cameron does have some serious attention to detail.

Except the part where the oxygen poor atmosphere feeds flames.

Or the part when the Colonel is on fire and the flames go out when he moves to an oxygen rich environment instead of causing him to practically explode.

Or the part where an oxygen deprived brain suffers no consequences.

I'm sure there were more, but it's been a while since I saw it.

There is sure to be some other reducting element in the atmosphere that the alien metabolism is using and is unsuitable for humans.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: usmcnavgeek on 01 Jan 2010, 08:30
  Say what you will, but Cameron does have some serious attention to detail.

Except the part where the oxygen poor atmosphere feeds flames.

Or the part when the Colonel is on fire and the flames go out when he moves to an oxygen rich environment instead of causing him to practically explode.

Or the part where an oxygen deprived brain suffers no consequences.

I'm sure there were more, but it's been a while since I saw it.

It's not an oxygen-poor atmosphere, it's a carbon-dioxide and hydrogen-sulfide rich one.  This book (http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Confidential-Biological-History-Camerons/dp/0061896756/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262363156&sr=1-3) has all the background information and sci-fi handwaving you could possibly ask for in justifying the environments of Pandora.


Also I'm not sure why anybody's having issues with that link to the biologist's article.  It works for me...
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Muppet King on 01 Jan 2010, 08:50
I'm not going to buy a supplemental book for a movie that I didn't really like much.

That would still cause the humans to suffocate and cause the brain to die.  Ten minutes without oxygen and there is basically no saving the brain; after a few minutes there is certain to be brain damage.  Basically, if the humans can't breathe the air on the planet, there isn't enough oxygen to allow the brain to function.

It also still doesn't explain why the Colonel didn't end up a big charred mass when entering an oxygen-rich environment while on fire.  To give you an idea of what it would do, a patient receiving oxygen can severely burn him or herself just by smoking a cigarette; now imagine what a larger open flame would do when immersing oneself in pure oxygen.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 01 Jan 2010, 08:56
If I recall correctly, the Colonel did say that in Pandora's atmosphere, you pass out in 20 seconds and die in four minutes. I don't really see why you have a problem with the atmosphere and its chemistry, especially since the indoor atmosphere is not made out of pure oxygen but presumably mimics earth's atmosphere.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: usmcnavgeek on 01 Jan 2010, 09:05
I'm not going to buy a supplemental book for a movie that I didn't really like much.

That would still cause the humans to suffocate and cause the brain to die.  Ten minutes without oxygen and there is basically no saving the brain; after a few minutes there is certain to be brain damage.  Basically, if the humans can't breathe the air on the planet, there isn't enough oxygen to allow the brain to function.

It also still doesn't explain why the Colonel didn't end up a big charred mass when entering an oxygen-rich environment while on fire.  To give you an idea of what it would do, a patient receiving oxygen can severely burn him or herself just by smoking a cigarette; now imagine what a larger open flame would do when immersing oneself in pure oxygen.

Firstly, he was only in the native environment's atmosphere for, like, two minutes (tops, I didn't hack a stopwatch) during the final battle, so I don't know what you're angry about there.  It's enough to go unconscious but not die; you don't get brain damage from oxygen deprivation until 4 or so minutes, which happens to be the line spouted in the movie earlier. 

Secondly, what are you saying about oxygen-rich environments?  Are you saying that when the Colonel came back into the big helicopter-ship with his shoulder on fire at the end of the movie, he should have exploded?  We learned back in 1967 with Apollo 1 what happens when you pressurize with pure oxygen; I'm pretty sure they're running an equivalent of room air in all their ships.  Since all you'd have to do is filter out the CO2 and HS gases from the ambient atmosphere, that'd be easier from a technology perspective too.

What I really think here is that if you're spending your time trying to nitpick science-y reasons why you don't like the movie, and then aren't interested at all in any perfectly plausible reasonings behind them (I can understand not wanting to buy the book, but nevertheless...), you just need to take a deep breath, relax, and examine just why you're so angry about this film. 

Unless you're not angry and you just sound angry, in which case, oops.  Either way.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Muppet King on 01 Jan 2010, 09:17
I'm not angry about the movie.  I just didn't like it much.  It's not because of things like that either; I just didn't care for it much beyond the planet design.

You're the one that proclaimed Cameron to be so detail oriented, and he is to an extent, but he's not perfect.

The line says you die in four minutes, not you enter oxygen deprivation.  The oxygen deprivation is what knocks you out.

There is no point in arguing on the internet so just go on with your conversations; I'm backing out.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 01 Jan 2010, 09:23
I dont recall it being explicitly stated that it was an oxygen poor environment. Since it wasnt explicitly said, lets assume James Cameron is aware of the ramifications of oxygen deprivation and that it was a toxic atmosphere that can kill.

And Im assuming the "oxygen rich" environment was the power walker or whatever? I just cant agree that futuretech would pump dangerous levels of oxygen into anything, it would be a pretty standard atmosphere in there.

What 'science-y' thing that got my goat was when he jumped out of the ship in a powered walker. I couldnt imagine that not crumpling under its own weight.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 01 Jan 2010, 09:59
I could, sure the armor probably weighs quite a bit (although they still have the standard bulletproof glass flaw of being designed to stop light fast things, which makes it problematic when your enemies are launching big heavy objects), but if you engineer it properly and use the right materials, it should work just fine, even after dropping (did they state relative gravity to earth in the book or the movie?) that far. It is tempting to compare it to a car, but since these are military designs, it would be more like car with everything inside the roll cage, rather than just the driver, and roll cages will survive a hell of a lot. The legs bent to absorb shock, reducing the amount of force being exerted on the armor at any given instant in time.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ozymandias on 01 Jan 2010, 10:07
Cnl. Generikill mentioned which lifting weight something about lower gravity, but you sure wouldn't know it from watching the movie.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 01 Jan 2010, 10:25
Still the other ones were lowered from a similar height by cables. And Im willing to bet those exo-skeleton things weigh considerably more than a car. In either case, that scene broke my suspension of disbelief for a couple of seconds which was easily maintained throughout the rest of the movie
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 01 Jan 2010, 10:53
Ozy, the na'vi's movement did seem somewhat floaty, but I wasn't sure if that was low grav, muscle, or a flaw in CG.

The armor looked to be about 12 feet tall, I would say it weighs less than a pickup, assuming they are using light-weight alloy armor, and not some by then more than a century old hardened steel plating. I doubt reactive armor (makes a small explosion to divert shaped charges) would be used on something that size, especially something so inherently unstable as a bipedal walking robot. Maybe with payload (30mm ammo is pretty heavy) it would weigh over 3 short tons, but they would have to design it to be light enough to not sink knee-deep into most land types they would need to deal with, it would be heavy, but it would be built with superior materials to what roll-cages are made of, I'm thinking that if it were a body-on-frame design (makes it easier to replace damaged armor or make changes as needed), it would be a triangular frame for the arms and legs, lots of redundant electronics contained inside that (you don't want one bullet penetrating to cut the only connection that allows the armor's trigger finger to pull), with armor plating bolted on top. Monobody, I don't know, those things confuse the hell out of me, even though they are more common these days. You wouldn't have crumple zones, anyway.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 01 Jan 2010, 12:08
NEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerds!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 01 Jan 2010, 12:32
Says the WoW addict
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 01 Jan 2010, 15:15
NEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerds!

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to the Kettle.  You'll find that you have something in common.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 01 Jan 2010, 16:21
Hey, if studying vehicular armor plating and weaponry as a hobby is nerdy, I don't want to be... un-nerdy? Besides, being able to spout endless streams of seemingly creepily-detailed information about modern weaponry is one of the few nerdy things that nobody is going to make fun of you for. At least in person.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ozymandias on 01 Jan 2010, 16:37
It's also one of the few nerdy things you can do that can get you put on a government watch list so, you know, bonus.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 01 Jan 2010, 17:16
Guys, I just really love Ogre.

(http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.10/spotlight/nerds/images/ogre/ogre3.jpg)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 01 Jan 2010, 20:49
Also I'm not sure why anybody's having issues with that link to the biologist's article.  It works for me...

Well, I don't either.

Three days, three separate tries and it still  won't load.

All I get is the dreaded white screen of death.


Talk about frustrating.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: usmcnavgeek on 02 Jan 2010, 02:10

Well, I don't either.

Three days, three separate tries and it still  won't load.

All I get is the dreaded white screen of death.


Talk about frustrating.

That's a bummer.  Here's a copy-paste:

Quote
A biologist is moved by "Avatar"

From Shermin de Silva, University of Pennsylvania:

I just saw Avatar, and must admit that I lead a sheltered life from the media and neither saw nor heard any of the hype the preceded this film. We went in expecting the typical mix of gimmicky 3D effects and an empty storyline but got more than we bargained for. Now, no one can say that the story line is particularly original and it doesn't try to pretend that the Tribe, the planet, the worldviews being espoused are anything other than symbols for peoples, ecosystems and events in our own history. We've all seen the same storyline in one form or another (Pocahontas meets The Matrix, meets Star Wars).

But I didn't care about that. This very fact is what actually surprised, moved, and made me terribly sad.

I was first sad in watching this movie because it fantasizes about another planet in another time in which humanity might not make the mistakes it has already made on our own, having already ruined and decimated the indigenous cultures and ecosystems native to Earth. I am sad because it reminds me forever and ever of something I already know, and because it's fantasizing a about an opportunity to alter a wrong, a lesson to be learned, that it is already too late to learn.

I was also sad that the ineffectiveness of the scientists is all too accurate. I remember of course that Sigourney Weaver played a far darker role in the past, and this is just a dim and G-rated reincarnation of the Diane Fossey that was murdered in the mists.

I am also sad that the threat in this movie -- the aliens, the outsiders -- are no longer the threat here on earth. Instead it's as though the Tribes have swallowed whole the philosophies and values of the conquerors. Here on earth you really can trade a forest for blue jeans and coke, and this makes me solemn about the joke. The threat isn't from out there in many places, it's the local people trying to eke out a living on the land that was once fertile and is now barren because of all that we've done to it. And we will still mine it and we will still destroy it. Who's going to stop buying gold and diamonds, even though they've seen what it's done to Africa??

I study elephants. I see the largely privileged White Fight and White Burden that's being played out on the world stage (give them medicine, and give them schools?? for diseases we can't cure and a way of life we don't understand, never will). I know that as Europe and the World Bank throw money at so-called aid and development schemes, people still dream of blue jeans and coke, that one by one the animals are going, and the forests, and of course then who knows... Pandora may be a beautiful dream steeped in an eco-message, but it's a message whose time is long past. We already killed the Na'vi of earth, or else assimilated them into desiring the same destructive way of life.

I came out of the theater and started reading the reviews, and now it makes me sadder still that all people seem to talk about is the special effects. Finally, we have a film with CG eye candy that has enough appeal not to bore audiences while moralizing. Maybe the most I can hope for is that lots of kids see this and a few of them go on to read some history and actually understand that behind the fantasy there was Earth, and much of this Earth is already lost, but perhaps we can try to salvage what there is left.

Why I write to you is that I like and respect your reviews and thought I needed to vent somewhere besides an anonymous blog with the masses of other comments that will never get read.

Sorry if in the interest of being brief the words are strung out in stream of consciousness.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 02 Jan 2010, 02:22
Quote from: Spike
I just can't take all this mamby-pamby boo-hooing about the bloody Indians! You won! Alright? You came in and you killed them and you took their land. That's what conquering nations do. It's what Caesar did, and he's not going around saying "I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it." The history of the world is not people making friends - you had better weapons and you massacred them. End of story.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 02 Jan 2010, 02:25
I don't see the point you are trying to make.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 02 Jan 2010, 02:32
I bow before your superior intellect
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: StaedlerMars on 02 Jan 2010, 04:35
guys, right now I'm just thinking that Dovey is suffering from extreme schizophrenia and has let it loose on the Internet.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 02 Jan 2010, 11:29
This movie is so good we're gonna go see it again, with my grandparents who haven't seen a movie(in theaters) in years.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 02 Jan 2010, 12:46

Well, I don't either.

Three days, three separate tries and it still  won't load.

All I get is the dreaded white screen of death.


Talk about frustrating.

That's a bummer.  Here's a copy-paste:

Quote
A biologist is moved by "Avatar"

From Shermin de Silva, University of Pennsylvania:

I just saw Avatar, and must admit that I lead a sheltered life from the media and neither saw nor heard any of the hype the preceded this film. We went in expecting the typical mix of gimmicky 3D effects and an empty storyline but got more than we bargained for. Now, no one can say that the story line is particularly original and it doesn't try to pretend that the Tribe, the planet, the worldviews being espoused are anything other than symbols for peoples, ecosystems and events in our own history. We've all seen the same storyline in one form or another (Pocahontas meets The Matrix, meets Star Wars).

But I didn't care about that. This very fact is what actually surprised, moved, and made me terribly sad.

I was first sad in watching this movie because it fantasizes about another planet in another time in which humanity might not make the mistakes it has already made on our own, having already ruined and decimated the indigenous cultures and ecosystems native to Earth. I am sad because it reminds me forever and ever of something I already know, and because it's fantasizing a about an opportunity to alter a wrong, a lesson to be learned, that it is already too late to learn.

I was also sad that the ineffectiveness of the scientists is all too accurate. I remember of course that Sigourney Weaver played a far darker role in the past, and this is just a dim and G-rated reincarnation of the Diane Fossey that was murdered in the mists.

I am also sad that the threat in this movie -- the aliens, the outsiders -- are no longer the threat here on earth. Instead it's as though the Tribes have swallowed whole the philosophies and values of the conquerors. Here on earth you really can trade a forest for blue jeans and coke, and this makes me solemn about the joke. The threat isn't from out there in many places, it's the local people trying to eke out a living on the land that was once fertile and is now barren because of all that we've done to it. And we will still mine it and we will still destroy it. Who's going to stop buying gold and diamonds, even though they've seen what it's done to Africa??

I study elephants. I see the largely privileged White Fight and White Burden that's being played out on the world stage (give them medicine, and give them schools?? for diseases we can't cure and a way of life we don't understand, never will). I know that as Europe and the World Bank throw money at so-called aid and development schemes, people still dream of blue jeans and coke, that one by one the animals are going, and the forests, and of course then who knows... Pandora may be a beautiful dream steeped in an eco-message, but it's a message whose time is long past. We already killed the Na'vi of earth, or else assimilated them into desiring the same destructive way of life.

I came out of the theater and started reading the reviews, and now it makes me sadder still that all people seem to talk about is the special effects. Finally, we have a film with CG eye candy that has enough appeal not to bore audiences while moralizing. Maybe the most I can hope for is that lots of kids see this and a few of them go on to read some history and actually understand that behind the fantasy there was Earth, and much of this Earth is already lost, but perhaps we can try to salvage what there is left.

Why I write to you is that I like and respect your reviews and thought I needed to vent somewhere besides an anonymous blog with the masses of other comments that will never get read.

Sorry if in the interest of being brief the words are strung out in stream of consciousness.


A very interesting article.  Thanks for that.

Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Tom on 02 Jan 2010, 14:17
For that biologist, it's as if Avatar is the only text that's done any of that.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: usmcnavgeek on 02 Jan 2010, 14:37
For that biologist, it's as if Avatar is the only text that's done any of that.

I'm pretty sure he's read some books before, you know, what with having a doctorate.  Sounds like he's saying that the film was touching and moving to him, and given his professional knowledge, I figured that was an interesting point for him to make.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Tom on 02 Jan 2010, 15:20
I was a being a little facetious. From a literary perspective, if you combine near equal parts of Princess of Mars and Dances with Wolves you get...
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: beat mouse on 02 Jan 2010, 16:28
Princess Mononoke!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 02 Jan 2010, 23:14
Just saw this a second time. Guys this movie is so good.

If you don't like this but you liked Star Trek, you're lying to yourself.
If you don't like this but you liked District 9, you're pretentious.
If you don't like this but you liked Star Wars, you're just an idiot.

This movie is so fucking good, the only complaint I have is I have to get all my viewing in while it's in theaters, because I can't imagine watching it not in 3D.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 02 Jan 2010, 23:14
Pretty cool that all of those movies have the same number of characters, huh.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 02 Jan 2010, 23:14
If you didn't like this, or any of those other three, why the fuck did you see it anyway?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 02 Jan 2010, 23:40
Im developing a slight man-crush on Kieffer
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 02 Jan 2010, 23:57
I have kind of a love-hate relationship with that Star Trek movie, since most of the film wasn't all that great and I don't think it holds up very well on repeated viewings. On the other hand, that 10 minute opening scene was such balls out cliched melodramatic space opera that I loved every fucking second of it and could have left the theater completely satisfied without even seeing the rest of the movie. I'm thinking of watching it again right now.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 00:02
So you love melodramatic cliche space opera and you didn't like this, which is epic melodramatic cliche fantastical sci-fi?

Fuck you.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 03 Jan 2010, 00:11
Just saw this a second time. Guys this movie is so good.

If you don't like this but you liked Star Trek, you're lying to yourself.
If you don't like this but you liked District 9, you're pretentious.
If you don't like this but you liked Star Wars, you're just an idiot.

This movie is so fucking good, the only complaint I have is I have to get all my viewing in while it's in theaters, because I can't imagine watching it not in 3D.
Haven't seen the new Star Trek so can't comment. You seem to be misusing pretentious there. I'm not sure where your use of idiot for Star Wars is for, but if your complaint to the fans is Star Wars usage of as many cliches, ect. than there is a world of difference. With Star Wars the big difference is that the intent of Star Wars, at least for the original trilogy, was to examine old space operas and serials. Crank up the cliches and give the ultimate byronic experience. In a way it is an examination on old school basic storytelling. Avatar on the other hand has heftier goals in trying to comment on the treatment of Native Americans and the present war in Iraq, amongst other things. Because of that goal the use of cliches must be very careful or else you'll just end up being an other Crash, the Haggis one not the great Cronenberg one. sadly Avatar does use those cliches in a way that while not as bad as Crash still causes a reductive moral landscape.
Personally I feel that Avatar is enjoyable and adequate, but I fully understand the stance against it considering what I outlined. Your comparisons, at least for the two I've seen just don't work.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 03 Jan 2010, 00:15
So you love melodramatic cliche space opera and you didn't like this, which is epic melodramatic cliche fantastical sci-fi?

Fuck you.

Here's the difference: That scene lasted about 11 minutes. It left me actively amazed that I enjoyed a scene like that because those kind of scenes almost never work for me, but then the rest of the movie left me sort of luke warm. Avatar didn't have any given moment half so entertaining in it AND it took several hours. Gah.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 03 Jan 2010, 00:15
I liked all three of the movies he mentions, and I didn't like Avatar. I really tried, you know. But when a movie as visually stunning as Avatar causes me to nearly fall asleep halfway through, it's less endearing and more "I'm so glad someone else paid for me right now."
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 00:23
The three of you are completely joyless fucks.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 03 Jan 2010, 00:28
I kind of wonder what people will think of it as visual standards change. For example, I remember people being all "Holy shit!" over Jurassic Park back in '93, but now nobody really gives a crap, since it was really just a full-on crowd pleasing spectacle movie. I could see Avatar going down the same path.

And Kieffer, you'll never believe this, but I actually am capable of enjoying myself without declaring every movie I see to be the greatest thing ever.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 00:29
Just saw this a second time. Guys this movie is so good.

If you don't like this but you liked Star Trek, you're lying to yourself.
If you don't like this but you liked District 9, you're pretentious.
If you don't like this but you liked Star Wars, you're just an idiot.

This movie is so fucking good, the only complaint I have is I have to get all my viewing in while it's in theaters, because I can't imagine watching it not in 3D.
Haven't seen the new Star Trek so can't comment. You seem to be misusing pretentious there. I'm not sure where your use of idiot for Star Wars is for, but if your complaint to the fans is Star Wars usage of as many cliches, ect. than there is a world of difference. With Star Wars the big difference is that the intent of Star Wars, at least for the original trilogy, was to examine old space operas and serials. Crank up the cliches and give the ultimate byronic experience. In a way it is an examination on old school basic storytelling. Avatar on the other hand has heftier goals in trying to comment on the treatment of Native Americans and the present war in Iraq, amongst other things. Because of that goal the use of cliches must be very careful or else you'll just end up being an other Crash, the Haggis one not the great Cronenberg one. sadly Avatar does use those cliches in a way that while not as bad as Crash still causes a reductive moral landscape.
Personally I feel that Avatar is enjoyable and adequate, but I fully understand the stance against it considering what I outlined. Your comparisons, at least for the two I've seen just don't work.

You are the most joyless of the fucks.

First, fuck you for telling me my use of pretentious is incorrect. I am saying that you are putting on a fucking pretense if you liked the lower budget "smarter" movie about mistreating aliens as an allegory for mistreating natives and not fucking avatar.

But you are an ESPECIALLY joyless fuck if you think the point of Star Wars, or the point of Avatar, was to make you think. The point was to make awesome, simple, compelling stories with straight forward cut and dry characterization that makes you go oooh and ahhh and maybe holy shit once or twice. You're comparing Avatar to fucking crash? Are you fucking retarded? There is no similarity, at all, between these two movies. I get that you think you are a student of film all "look at me, I can namecheck fucking cronenberg for no reason in my post" but fuck you you joyless fuck. These movies are supposed to be fun and engaging.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 00:30
I liked all three of the movies he mentions, and I didn't like Avatar. I really tried, you know. But when a movie as visually stunning as Avatar causes me to nearly fall asleep halfway through, it's less endearing and more "I'm so glad someone else paid for me right now."

You are the second most joyless fuck. This is fucking stupid. I bet you went stoned or some shit, and blame your own sins on the movie, since you can't admit you were tired. There is no fucking possible way you could have come close to falling asleep during that movie. It's got a perfect pacing, if anything it could have been longer so we could have had more time for the troops to rally and shit at the end. The movie is at its best when shit isn't really blowing up that bad. If you didn't love the flying scene there is something wrong with you. Fuck.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 03 Jan 2010, 00:33
Yeah, I can't buy into the idea that Star Wars was really an examination of anything. Now, I'm sure the filmmakers were aware of precedents and archetypes, but knowing that doesn't mean you're automatically doing anything fancy. I know plenty about the Beatles and Mozart, but at the end of the day, I'm still a fucking hack when it comes to writing music.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 00:34
So you love melodramatic cliche space opera and you didn't like this, which is epic melodramatic cliche fantastical sci-fi?

Fuck you.

Here's the difference: That scene lasted about 11 minutes. It left me actively amazed that I enjoyed a scene like that because those kind of scenes almost never work for me, but then the rest of the movie left me sort of luke warm. Avatar didn't have any given moment half so entertaining in it AND it took several hours. Gah.

This is actually pretty valid, although not liking the new trek doesn't make any damn sense either, unless you're one of those joyless continuity junkie fucks who thinks they fucked up Kirk and made him all swagger no substance.

I kind of wonder what people will think of it as visual standards change. For example, I remember people being all "Holy shit!" over Jurassic Park back in '93, but now nobody really gives a crap, since it was really just a full-on crowd pleasing spectacle movie. I could see Avatar going down the same path.

And Kieffer, you'll never believe this, but I actually am capable of enjoying myself without declaring every movie I see to be the greatest thing ever.

Are you kidding? Jurassic Park is still amazing. We watched it like 3 weeks ago and everyone had a great time, the effects still look amazing, the story is great, the acting is great, the jokes are great. It's a phenomenal spectacle.

Yo Alex we are actually cool though. I just wish you weren't damning this movie with such faint praise. It was way better than meh, and I can dig if you don't think it's the GOAT, but cmon that was some pretty perfect sci-fi/fantasy storytelling.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 00:35
you joyless fucks.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 03 Jan 2010, 00:35
I'm willing to admit that there's a 90% chance that the problem I have with Avatar comes down to attention span. I was basically raised by video games.

As far as the Jurassic Park thing goes, it depends on what kind of metric you're going with, I guess. Personally, I still really like it. But with that said, as far as the Spielberg films go, it seems to be the one people give the least amount of credit to these days, which is a bit strange when you consider that it made just under a billion dollars and is really only second to E.T. in financial success.

By the way, my cousin actually thinks Jurassic Park 2 was better than the first one. Dude's a moron.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: usmcnavgeek on 03 Jan 2010, 00:43
Man, there is a lot of joyless fucking going on in here.  That is sad.  Fucking should never be joyless.

I've seen the movie four times (yeah, I'm a fanboy) and after the first viewing what I really wanted the movie to do was SLOW DOWN.  I can't see how you fell asleep during it.  The pacing borders on relentless; in each viewing the 2:40 FLEW by for me.

Anyway I liked it, in case you can't tell.  Plus as an aerospace nerd I liked seeing the spaceship and rotorcraft design, too.  There's a huge sci-fi writeup on the interstellar ship on the Pandorapedia (http://www.pandorapedia.com), which is a semi-official wiki of the in-universe stuff.  It made the geek in me very happy.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 03 Jan 2010, 00:47
Why on earth do people try to compare the plight of the Na'vi to the Native Americans. It seems ignorant and self centered (assuming the people who make this claim are from North America).

What did Europe come and try to exploit Native Americans for? Grasslands? I'd say this is about a hundred thousand times more comparable to either South Africa and Diamonds or maybe, maybe, Mayan gold or something. And go fuck yourselves if you are going to back up your answers by saying Mayans are "Native Americans" because ALL of the new world is "America".  Thats a cheap cop-out and makes you look stupid.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 03 Jan 2010, 00:51
And go fuck yourselves if you are going to back up your answers by saying Mayans are "Native Americans" because ALL of the new world is "America".  Thats a cheap cop-out and makes you look stupid.

I gotta tell you, given my family background, this hit me as fucking hilarious.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 03 Jan 2010, 00:52
You can't really deny that part Cheshire. When the french came to Canada they wanted otter skins because they were all the rage in Europe at the time.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 03 Jan 2010, 01:07
Well I can and am denying that part. I cant really challenge someone to prove that by comparing the Na'vi to Native Americans they are referring to Aboriginals of South America, because frankly using awkward ambiguous wording still makes you look stupid even if you are 'right'. And Otter skins? Really? You are going to have to do better than that.

And Alex, dont really know what your family background is, but unless your background involves people who have living memory of what happened between 1642 and the ~1800s I struggle to see the relevance. Though Im personally curious about your background, sinceI always imagined you looked like your avatar.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 03 Jan 2010, 01:08
I bet you went stoned or some shit, and blame your own sins on the movie, since you can't admit you were tired. There is no fucking possible way you could have come close to falling asleep during that movie.

None of the above, we actually went to a 7pm showing to avoid the "OH IT WAS JUST TOO LATE YOU WERE TIRED" excuse. And I still started dozing off when he was learning how to fly.

Dunno what went wrong. Maybe it was the retardedly predictable script. Or the fact that sweeping vistas become boring once you've seen it all before. The LotR films came up with something new every time, whereas Avatar seemed like it was done showing me cool things even before (spoiler) the big tree got blowed up. Everything that wasn't on the visual side of this film reeked of laziness, from the Papyrus subtitles or "unobtainium," the 2 dimensional, undeveloped characters or the vaguely fake-looking Na'avi. (Yes I said it. The environments looked great and most of the animals did too, but the humanoids looked like they were straight out of a video game cinematic. Zzzzz.) Sorry. There's just no way I could ever enjoy a product this half-assed.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 03 Jan 2010, 02:16
You can't really deny that part Cheshire. When the french came to Canada they wanted otter skins because they were all the rage in Europe at the time.

If by otter you mean beaver then yeah.  But that was after we (and everyone else) came for the fish. And after we had settled down we started using the Natives as slaves because importing them from Africa was way too expensive.

My girlfriend and I have been discussing Avatar for the past couple of weeks now and I used it as an excuse to introduce her to the first two Alien films.  She absolutely loved both films and was even pointing out the similarities to Avatar (Vasquez, the Walkers, the Airplane, Burke)  I am thankful to Avatar in a way because I'm not sure when I would have rewatched a James Cameron film otherwise.

And I cannot even remember the times I was sitting in my chair bored out of my mind during that film.  Pretty much everything that scarred said except about the Na'avi.  Did you see the paint on them? That made my jaw drop.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 03 Jan 2010, 02:19
Well I can and am denying that part. I cant really challenge someone to prove that by comparing the Na'vi to Native Americans they are referring to Aboriginals of South America, because frankly using awkward ambiguous wording still makes you look stupid even if you are 'right'. And Otter skins? Really? You are going to have to do better than that.

And Alex, dont really know what your family background is, but unless your background involves people who have living memory of what happened between 1642 and the ~1800s I struggle to see the relevance. Though Im personally curious about your background, sinceI always imagined you looked like your avatar.

Nah, that guy is Jared Allen, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen) an NFL player that constantly straddles the line between unintentional comedy and full-on self-parody when he isn't out getting DUIs and voting Republican. He plays for the Vikings though so I can't really decide if I love him or hate him.

Anyway, I'm named for my great grandfather, Alejandro Calderon, and it's taken a lot of work corroborating with people from across the pond, but that side of my family can trace things back to around the 1780s now. Basically, my ancestors were Peninsulares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsulares) who sided with the royalists early and then changed their tune when it started to look like Spain wasn't going to win the Mexican War for Independence. They ended up losing a lot of wealth over the years due to always being late to figure out who they should be siding with throughout various wars, but they still avoided fraternizing with the natives whenever possible and a few times people went so far as to head back to Spain to find someone to get married to. So, basically, my ancestors moved over here to skim off the top of the mining industry and boss around the natives but it didn't work out so hot. Generations later, we're still some of the whitest Mexicans you'll see this side of Guillermo Del Toro. In a stroke of karmic justice, this also has resulted in some of my relatives being afflicted with fun genetic disorders that are apparently rare outside of Spain.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 03 Jan 2010, 02:34
You can't really deny that part Cheshire. When the french came to Canada they wanted otter skins because they were all the rage in Europe at the time.
If by otter you mean beaver then yeah.  But that was after we (and everyone else) came for the fish. And after we had settled down we started using the Natives as slaves because importing them from Africa was way too expensive.

otter and beaver, though perhaps my memory is a bit fuzzy
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 03 Jan 2010, 02:41
It was all fur but beaver was the main one.  The Hudson Bay Company used a currency with the Natives called a Made Beaver.  So if you brought in a beaver pelt you got 1 MB.  And here's a nice little list of what other furs were worth

 3 martens         2 ordinary otters or 1 if exceptionally fine

        1 fox                 2 deerskins

        1 moose             1 lb castoreum

        1 bear cub         2 wolverines 

        10 pounds Goose Feathers

         8 pair Moose Hooves

So yeah, otters were worth quite a bit.  I have no idea what castoreum is though.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 03 Jan 2010, 02:42
Quote from: Wikipedia
"Jared named his son Rowdy after his childhood hero Rowdy Roddy Piper." Bwahahaha.

Alejandro Calderon is a totally epic name, like really fun to say out loud. Not epic like Martin Luther, Oliver Cromwell and Mark Antony mind you. I mean those dudes were total badasses who ruled without being a King/Emperor/Pope/Duke/Whatever. Not many Western historical leaders got the First Name, Last Name, no title treatment.

Oh and on this whole "North American Native American" pelt thing. Not really sure if you understood my point, and its too much work to make it more clear. But once again Ill state, its not really analogous to Avatar at all.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 03 Jan 2010, 06:19
Maybe it's because it's almost one-thirty in the morning, but I'm disappointed this thread isn't called "Othertar".
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 03 Jan 2010, 07:15
I'm wondering what people have against the use of "unobtanium", opinion seems to be split between hating it and finding it funny. The way I saw it, it was a nod to people that know the term from the various sci-fi usage and the usage in fiction discussion, as an element with whatever properties you need it to have for the example. It explained everything you needed to know about it, it's incredibly valuable, they don't mention any material properties, so they won't come up in the movie, and for all we know, it isn't even really called unobtanium, it could just be what the '80s vintage coked-up executive IN SPACE called it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 03 Jan 2010, 07:25
But they didn't even imply that the joke name was used as a joke name. Sure, it's completely believable that the periodic table name of ununseptium was too hard for the non-scientists to remember and called it Unobtanium instead, but that was never shown. They said "Unobtanium" with a straight face, and that is what made it ridiculous.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 03 Jan 2010, 07:54
I don't see this can't be related to any culture taking over land that belongs to an indigenous one. This has pretty much happened on every continent except Antarctica and saying that it can't/shouldn't be compared to just North America is kind of dumb. Brits/Americans wanted land, so when they had to, they took it by force and kill a shit ton of people in the process. This happened with Spain and Mexico, when Britain tried to colonize just about everything, etc etc. So I don't really see why you're hating on the connections to Native Americans, though yes I do understand that there are better connections.

Really if anything this movie just shows that humans are assholes.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 03 Jan 2010, 08:27
They said "Unobtanium" with a straight face, and that is what made it ridiculous.
One person said it, the aforementioned fast-talking coked-up executive, who probably would have to have anything remotely scientific broken down into two-syllable words, and referring to something as unobtainium would be done with a straight face, not a Groucho Marx eyebrow waggle. So it is basically a MY IMMERSION thing for you?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 03 Jan 2010, 09:49
Because the humans didnt give two shits about the land. They wanted the Unobtainium and would scorch earth to get it.

And on the subject of Unobtainium, its funny strictly because they wink at the camera when they said it, and the word as mentioned many times, conveys all the meaningful properties without having to explain them. In the context of the movie, the only meaningful property is its rare and worth a cajillion mega-dollars.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 03 Jan 2010, 11:11
So you love melodramatic cliche space opera and you didn't like this, which is epic melodramatic cliche fantastical sci-fi?
How are these two any different?

I was going to go see this movie in IMAX 3D but I had a medical emergency that put me away for a week. I'm going to try and go see it tonight.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 03 Jan 2010, 12:22
You are the most joyless of the fucks.

First, fuck you for telling me my use of pretentious is incorrect. I am saying that you are putting on a fucking pretense if you liked the lower budget "smarter" movie about mistreating aliens as an allegory for mistreating natives and not fucking avatar.

But you are an ESPECIALLY joyless fuck if you think the point of Star Wars, or the point of Avatar, was to make you think. The point was to make awesome, simple, compelling stories with straight forward cut and dry characterization that makes you go oooh and ahhh and maybe holy shit once or twice. You're comparing Avatar to fucking crash? Are you fucking retarded? There is no similarity, at all, between these two movies. I get that you think you are a student of film all "look at me, I can namecheck fucking cronenberg for no reason in my post" but fuck you you joyless fuck. These movies are supposed to be fun and engaging.
Hey dude, I didn't insult you. I even actually said I enjoyed Avatar, just felt your insults toward other entertainment was out of line. I never said the point to Star wars was to make people think. It's intentionally pure space opera and sure be enjoyed as such. If Cameron's only intention was the same I wouldn't have sympathy with the people that disliked the movie. he does bring in these intentional analogies though, and sure be held to a standard as such. By making the story so cliched I understand that it leads to unfortunate implications and such. Had he left out any attempt at political awareness and gone the route of Star Wars or his own True Lies than that wouldn't be such a contentious point. Again I really did enjoy Avatar put to describe someone who didn't as a 'joyless fuck' is more reductive than Avatar itself.
Also the reason I said you were using pretentious wrong, definitely could have phrased that better, was that maybe some people enjoyed District 9 more because it was shorter and had more elements to them that are entertaining. Some people just don't like epic storytelling, which Avatar is, and prefer smaller intimate tales, which District 9 is. That doesn't make either one better, or someone is pretentious for liking one over the other, I actually preferred Avatar in this debate, but that different people prefer different styles of story telling.
Finally no way am I in fucking film school.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 14:58
I am imagining you having sex, currently. You are sighing occasionally, fulfilling monotonous motions, occasionally looking at your watch.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 14:58
It is a fuck completely without joy.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 03 Jan 2010, 15:19
 :?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 03 Jan 2010, 15:35
Next you'll probably be telling us you don't enjoy the taste of a hearty McDonald's hamburger.

Why don't you go back to France or some shit.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 03 Jan 2010, 15:53
FREEDOM FRIES MOTHERFUCKERS
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Professor Snuggles on 03 Jan 2010, 16:39
Yeah dude, seriously fuck you.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: knives on 03 Jan 2010, 16:45
Next you'll probably be telling us you don't enjoy the taste of a hearty McDonald's hamburger.

Why don't you go back to France or some shit.
I will...and take Jerry Lewis too. (The crowd gives an applause like never before)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 03 Jan 2010, 18:24
What's going on in here?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 03 Jan 2010, 18:43
It was all fur but beaver was the main one.  The Hudson Bay Company used a currency with the Natives called a Made Beaver.  So if you brought in a beaver pelt you got 1 MB.  And here's a nice little list of what other furs were worth

 3 martens         2 ordinary otters or 1 if exceptionally fine

        1 fox                 2 deerskins

        1 moose             1 lb castoreum

        1 bear cub         2 wolverines 

        10 pounds Goose Feathers

         8 pair Moose Hooves

So yeah, otters were worth quite a bit.  I have no idea what castoreum is though.
(http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=3673;type=avatar)(http://www.facepunch.com/fp/emoot/respek.gif)(http://i48.tinypic.com/mlkux0.png)
Thanks for proving my point
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 03 Jan 2010, 19:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RBeoPauVb0
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 05 Jan 2010, 12:29
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24/phyrexianmeatdog/James-Camerons-Pocahontas.gif)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Tom on 05 Jan 2010, 13:01
See, nothing special!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 05 Jan 2010, 16:12
My new FB profile pic
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on 05 Jan 2010, 18:09
Ok so even if it is an appropriation of the John Smith/Pocahontas thingy how is that bad? Clueless is an appropriation of Emma, 10 Things I Hate About You is an appropriation of The Taming of the Shrew. Ain't nothing wrong with re-interpreting an old story with fuck off awesome special effects.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: beat mouse on 05 Jan 2010, 18:36
So what you're saying is that Avatar is based on true events!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 05 Jan 2010, 18:54
This thread gets better and better
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: kemon on 05 Jan 2010, 20:02
the hell are you guys doing in my thread?   ... that i haven't posted in since i started it.

so i finally got to see it.  i tried to ignore all the hype and whatnot so i could watch it and see it for what it is.  instead of going in expecting ubermovie or bomb.

it is a really good movie.  that isn't to say that it wasn't all completely predictable all the way through.  or that there wasn't a lot they could have kept in to explain some things a little better just cause it would be interesting.   or that using the word unobtanium made me groan from the very beginning.

it was entertaining the whole way through.   it didn't at all feel like the two and a half hour movie that it was.  what carried this movie was the acting.  it wasn't the epic cg, which was better than i expected and better than most, but it was still obvious cg.  it wasn't the story or the directing.  the acting was truly good and the technique they used to create the navi from the actual actors' faces allowed that to happen.

cameron may be a tool but he made a damn good movie here.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 05 Jan 2010, 23:18
I was going to see this movie but the wait was an hour and a half so we were all "fuck it let's watch It's Complicated" and in the end watching Alec Baldwin clutch Meryl Streep's crotch and say "I'm home" is probably more fun than the entire length of Avatar.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: David_Dovey on 06 Jan 2010, 02:45
I really wanna see It's Complicated, realtalk
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 06 Jan 2010, 05:32
Is it just my imagination or is that a movie named after a Facebook relationship status option?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Lines on 06 Jan 2010, 05:49
It could be! But I still want to see it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: David_Dovey on 06 Jan 2010, 07:39
To be fair Harry the term was pretty entrenched in the zeitgeist a fair ways before Facebook.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 07 Jan 2010, 20:42
all opinions are irrelevant (http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/avatar-2-of-all-time-in-20-days)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: smack that isaiah on 10 Jan 2010, 20:43
I'm sorry that I'm reiterating stuff that's already been said in this thread (which I have not read and do not have the time to), but I kinda gotta vent now:

I just saw this movie tonight with my friends.  and I loved it.  Do not get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and most of the characters' development, and don't mind the rehashing of this plot from Dances with Wolves, Pocahontas, or Fern Gully.  I would honestly give it 3.5 stars out of 4.

3 things pulled me out of the movie, however, the first being Sigourney Weaver's Avatar's super pointy nose.  that made her look too human to me and pulled her into the uncanny valley.  Every other Navi and Avatar looked realistic and unhuman enough to be fine in the threshold of awesomeness.  This point isn't anything really important, I just want to say it.

The second was the fucking mech suits.  They were the absolute worst designs and demonstrations of engineering ever.  First off, if you're gonna go into a forest, you build a machine with treads and make it fucking powerful to plow through the trees, no fragile feet to mess shit up.  Second, you do not have external add-ons like guns which you pick up and fire or knives which you draw and wield.  Those weapons would 100% without a doubt be integrated into the suit, like in District 9.  The whole hand/arm interface that the user had was ridiculous and a joystick would have been much more useful, less tiring, and more realistic/probable to be implemented. 

The third thing was Parker (the head of the mining co, not the army dude)'s character and his bull headed stupidity (I'll accept the army dude's bull headed stupidity just because), which I felt was taken way too far to an extreme.  No one who was able to get to his power and position in the company could be so extremely unwilling to make compromises or even see another point of view as at all plausible like he did.  And, even tho he did show some remorse for the actions right after the first wave was executed, his final view was not sorrow or sadness for the Navi.  This point could be explained away from me with enough work, but the other one (the second) stands strong (the first I don't care about, really).

Another small thing that irked me was the biology of Pandora (with me already accepting the fact that the creatures had uplinks grown into them and everything interacted with the deity) was that all the animals and creatures had 6 legs, except the Navi.  Biologically, as evolution occurred on the planet either more creatures would have 4 limbs like the Navi, or the Navi should have 6 limbs or at least 2 vestigial parts of limbs. 

Also, just something I wanted to point out b/c my friends didn't notice it from the movie, the Avatars all had 5 fingers, while the Navi had 4.

==============
For those who think this is too long to read, I loved it but there were things that bothered me. 
And fuck mech suits and the mechanical/civil engineers who consulted on this project.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Emaline on 10 Jan 2010, 21:57
I saw this movie the other day, in 3d and at a fancy theater, and I have to say, I was unimpressed. It was alright. But I liked the first one better. I mean, it had Tim Curry in it(singing one of the greatest songs in my kid-life), and Robin Williams as a fucked up bat. And it had a real message. And the ending wasn't bullshit. I mean, in this one, the native creatures all except him back into their world, whereas in the original, he went back to his world and went on to tell people not to fuck up the forest. I feel like that ending was more believable, more real.





Fern Gully jokes aside, this movie was still just ok. Nothing special. Pretty Hollywood crap. The story was ok. It was very pretty. But overall, just sort of meh. I give it a C.


Plus, I read an article criticizing the fact that Sigourney Weaver's character smokes so much, and Cameron saying it was to show that she didn't care about her human body and only about her avatar body, and how this is commentary on gamers, and how they only care about their gaming avatars(which, lolz there is an Avatar game coming out. Smooth move, Cameron). Well, I call bullshit. If that is true, then there needed to be a lot more time spent exploring that. Other than a showing her interactions with the Navi and how much they mean to her, you get no real idea that she is only concerned with her avatar. Even in those instances you see that she actually cares about the Navi, which means nil about her avatar.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 11 Jan 2010, 00:30
Yeah, that whole Cameron trying to criticize gamers was really weak and pathetic on his part. He could have actually cemented it with other things, certainly things more obviously digging at the gamers.  But nope, she smokes.  I'm surprised that people still think that people smoking in movies is bad....but then Cameron replies with a statement like "oh, she smokes because she doesn't care about her bodies....like people who play videogames."  Tons of people smoke.  I don't think I personally know that many gamers who smoke.  Maybe 2 of   them.  It is funny as well, because the game he made based off the movie is called: Jame's Cameron's Avatar: The Game.  And it's apparently absolutely horrible.  Who would have thought that?

Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: ruyi on 11 Jan 2010, 05:05
Also, just something I wanted to point out b/c my friends didn't notice it from the movie, the Avatars all had 5 fingers, while the Navi had 4.

I believe this was intentional, as the avatars were supposed to have DNA mixed from humans and the Na'vi.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 11 Jan 2010, 05:06
I think you guys are missing the point. "videogames" would be games like WoW which is often playEd to exclusion of taking care of your real life.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 11 Jan 2010, 06:00
So 43 degrees Centigrade today persuaded me to go and spend two-and-a-half hours of air-conditioned bliss with Avatar. And I was pleasantly surprised! Sure there weren't any surprises in the movie at all, but it was also a pretty painless experience which is a lot more than you can say for most blockbusters these days - Cameron's included (hellooooo, Titanic). The script was tolerable largely because it was minimal - but not in the standard action movie "Arrggh! Grunt!" school of minimal scriptwriting; it's a good thing that there weren't too many words because some of them were frankly terrible (like when Blue Chicky - I don't think I ever really knew what her name was - was telling Jake about the Orange Flying Monster and telling him that its name means "Last Shadow", and Jake says: "Yeah, 'cause it's the last shadow you ever see." No shit, James Cameron, I hadn't at all worked that out by myself and I'm really glad you decided to assume that I'm an imbecile.) There was also a rather perplexing internal logic problem when Jake got lost in the forest the first time and Sigourney Weaver, et al were acting like they were never going to see him again - as we saw later in the film, the death of an avatar just means that the human wakes up rather abruptly, so what's the big deal? That avatars are pretty expensive pieces of hardware, I guess, so it's a pain in the arse to lose one? (By the way, sorry if I'm reiterating anything anyone else has said in this thread, I haven't read the whole thing because up until today I had no plans to see the film.)

But on the whole it was a pretty good film. The production design was exceptionally good, as is pretty much expected of Hollywood blockbusters these days, and frankly I thought the world was brilliantly imaginative. Visually of course everyone knows it's a knockout, and I genuinely forgot that I was watching a green-screen movie. I saw the 3D version because it was the only version screening at my local cinema, but to be honest I found the 3D distracting so I spent most of the film without the glasses on (it's not so much 3D as layers of 2D - I don't expect there are any birdwatchers on this forum but it's the same effect you get when you're looking through a pair of binoculars, and it's pretty strange). I put the 3D glasses on at select points and there were some genuinely good uses of it - most particularly when Jake and Sigourney Weaver and Other Guy are running through the forest that first time. But the 3D seemed strangely utilised: I put on the glasses in eager anticipation when Jake went to catch himself his own pet dragon because I was expecting the 3D flying effects to be jaw-dropping - but there weren't any. In fact there was barely any use of 3D in any of the aerial sequences, which struck me as utterly bizarre, especially when that first flight sequence ended, and the next scene is back in the lab and suddenly there's 3D effects out the arse. What the fuck, James Cameron?

But all in all, a very acceptable way to escape the summer heat.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 11 Jan 2010, 06:04
If you read the unedited script called Project 880, the social and political commentary Cameron is trying to make in this movie suddenly becomes a lot more obvious. For example, how one of the scientist in the Avatar project had his avatar killed before Sully came to Pandora, where he is pictured as a shell-shocked sort of zombie.

Wait, no one mentioned Project 880 in this thread? How's that possible?

Link: Fuck you, Hollywood (http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 11 Jan 2010, 06:15
God that irritates me. "All the bits that didn't make sense in the movie make sense if you read all this extraneous material we've provided for you!" Hey Hollywood I'm buying a ticket to a film, not entry into a cult.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: smack that isaiah on 11 Jan 2010, 06:31
I believe this was intentional, as the avatars were supposed to have DNA mixed from humans and the Na'vi.

Yeah, I know it was intentional, it's just that some of my friends said they wanted more differences between the Navi and the Avatars, at which point I pointed out the finger difference--which they didn't pick up on--the apparent height differences between the two (the Avatars seemed a little bit shorter), and the skin texture that the Avatars had that the Navi didnt--they were all smooth while the Avatars had textures.  Since they missed those details, I just wanted to point them out.

Something my roommate just mentioned to me that is ringing true is the massive amounts of unnecessary CGI.  sure it was pretty and everything, but all the computer interfaces and displays were done with full pointless CGI, which he really didn't need and didn't need to rely on.  For the planet and the alien creatures I understand perfectly, but for the computers and junk, just a waste and showing off.  And, secondly, all the computer interfaces and displays were massive touch screens and shit, which would absolutely not be in future developments of the computer.  Having to move your entire arm to change a screen is a waste of energy on the part of the computist, and even nowadays things like that are not appreciated.   Future computes will continue to have simpler analog controls that are not made up of many large movments--the operators would get too tired too quickly.  (To anyone who's ever spent a significant portion of a day programming or writing on a computer something that required multiple screens or shells or what-have-yous think about having done it with large arm motions like seen in the movie.  we would have all given up half an hour in, or tried to find a simpler way to write the code)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ballard on 11 Jan 2010, 11:03
It's the goddamn FUTURE why don't we have MIND CONROL COMPUTER!!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 11 Jan 2010, 12:36
HAL spoiled that,
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 11 Jan 2010, 15:12
Even now that I've seen the film, I can't hear or read the name Na'vi without thinking of Navvies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navvy), and then I think of a planet inhabited by railway workers and it makes me giggle.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: beat mouse on 11 Jan 2010, 17:57
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4253/395030-navi_large.jpg)
No?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 11 Jan 2010, 18:08
(http://emmy.eviltrailmix.com/AVATAR.gif)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: ruyi on 11 Jan 2010, 20:23
Link: Fuck you, Hollywood (http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html)

Had fun reading this; thanks!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: evilbobthebob on 12 Jan 2010, 05:24
So apparently some people like Pandora a little too much. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/12/avatar_blues/)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: sandysmilinstrange on 12 Jan 2010, 07:04
I enjoyed this movie and thought it was a pretty swell time at the movies. I was going to post a longer response about why and about ways that it would have been better for me personally, but got distracted that people are complaining about the danged font the subtitles were in and now my head kind of hurts.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: kemon on 12 Jan 2010, 09:25
So apparently some people like Pandora a little too much. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/12/avatar_blues/)


everday it seems like the crazies get more and more crazy.  i'd say this is ridiculous, but now it's just par for the course.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 12 Jan 2010, 10:02
I feel like a lot of those people have to joking. Right?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 12 Jan 2010, 10:24
Most likely.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Jan 2010, 12:10
God that irritates me. "All the bits that didn't make sense in the movie make sense if you read all this extraneous material we've provided for you!" Hey Hollywood I'm buying a ticket to a film, not entry into a cult.
Or you could just assume that he thought through the background at some point during the 15 years he had been working on it (although most of it it was probably just on a desk somewhere while he waited for better CG technology), and the parts of the background that you don't get just aren't included because they aren't important and the movie is already nearly as long as any of the Lord of the Rings movies. But viewers seem loath to do that these days, so he writes up the background to show that he did his work for the people that care enough to complain about it. I don't.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 12 Jan 2010, 12:11
I feel like a lot of those people have to joking. Right?

i dunno man, they're willing to start their own tribe and everything!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242409/The-Avatar-effect-Movie-goers-feel-depressed-suicidal-able-visit-utopian-alien-planet.html
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: LTK on 12 Jan 2010, 12:32
I guess that a popular movie means lots of moviegoers, which means lots of fans, which means there'll be more crazies among them. It's the only reasonable explanation I can come up with...
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 12 Jan 2010, 16:52
I'm not to fussed about that. How long have we had the klingon language?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 12 Jan 2010, 16:54
the deleted avatar tentacle sex scene (http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/read-this-now-avatars-deleted-sex-scene)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 12 Jan 2010, 23:51
the deleted avatar tentacle sex scene (http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/read-this-now-avatars-deleted-sex-scene)

Seriously? Please, please tell me that's a joke.  I really want to believe that's a joke.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 13 Jan 2010, 06:50
joke
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 13 Jan 2010, 12:27
Ahhh, the fun of Fan Fiction   :evil:
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 14 Jan 2010, 16:03
Hot Na'vi Sex (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/524391)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 14 Jan 2010, 20:41
I'm too scared to hit play.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Dimmukane on 14 Jan 2010, 21:31
It's actually pretty funny.  No nudity that would make sense to us, anyways.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Zingoleb on 15 Jan 2010, 08:46
Not until he whips out his soup drinker.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 19 Jan 2010, 09:08
 It's (http://www.accesshollywood.com/george-lucas-avatars-technology-could-make-3-d-star-wars-a-reality_article_27866/)  becoming (http://chud.com/articles/articles/22170/1/MAD-MAX-4-3D-CG/Page1.html/)  a (http://www.beyondhollywood.com/piranha-3d-due-in-august-plus-gory-set-pics/)  disturbing (http://www.collider.com/2010/01/05/spider-man-4-start-date-pushed-back-release-date-now-uncertain-could-film-be-in-3d/)  trend (http://www.mania.com/resident-evil-4-goes-3d_article_116672.html/)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 19 Jan 2010, 09:43
I remember when polar express was hailed as the best in digital animation.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 19 Jan 2010, 16:21
fun fact: Piranha 3D might not be in 3D (http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/tragic-casualty-of-the-financial-crisis-piranha-3d)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 19 Jan 2010, 16:34
I would like to point out that the title of this thread title is now comically out of touch.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 19 Jan 2010, 17:40
fun fact: Piranha 3D might not be in 3D (http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/tragic-casualty-of-the-financial-crisis-piranha-3d)

it's becoming disturbing trend?  The fact that Lucas is talking about it and Sony are going gung-ho about it doesn't give me bright hope for the future.  I love going to see movies in the theatre and getting popcorn with it.  That's starting to get really, really expensive and tacking on another 10 bucks?  I will gladly sacrifice 3-D for popcorn.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: David_Dovey on 19 Jan 2010, 18:50
Rumours are that the next James Bond is gonna be in 3D as well
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: JD on 19 Jan 2010, 21:59
I don't like popcorn. The portions for food in a theatre are always huge and expensive.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 19 Jan 2010, 22:02
I knew someone who worked in an independent movie theatre once, she said that including the price of the butter, the bag, and the popcorn itself, that the total cost of producing a bag of large popcorn was a little over 1 cent. They charged $4.75 for a small.

I bring my own microwave to the movies now
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 19 Jan 2010, 22:30
It's worth noting that concessions are largely how movie theaters make a profit. They don't make a lot from a ticket sale.

Which is why independent theaters can be nice. I'll order bruschetta and wine and watch whatever's playing. And their popcorn's good, because they don't add butter.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 19 Jan 2010, 22:37
I don't like popcorn. It's dry and flavourless without butter and soggy and salty with it. I prefer choc-tops (do other countries have choc-tops?). My local (independent, art-housey) cinema has choc-tops in a wonderful array of flavours besides the traditional vanilla - the best of which is chilli-chocolate.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Tom on 20 Jan 2010, 01:38
In Sydney, I've only the the indy's seem to stock them, all the big chains like EVENT cinemas just stick with the major corporate stuff.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 20 Jan 2010, 04:36
One year, about three years ago, at Christmas time, just for about a week, they had cointreau choc-tops.

We still talk about it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: pilsner on 20 Jan 2010, 23:10
Saw the thingum tonight.  Two thoughts:

(1) See it in IMAX if you can.  If your town doesn't have IMAX, hop on a bus.  IMAX makes this stupid, stupid movie worthwhile.

(2) When the fuck are they going to start putting bulletproof glass on the front of military helicopters?  When??
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 20 Jan 2010, 23:42
I like popcorn quite a bit, just not theater popcorn. Theater popcorn is usually pretty bad.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 21 Jan 2010, 01:03
Saw the thingum tonight.  Two thoughts:

(1) See it in IMAX if you can.  If your town doesn't have IMAX, hop on a bus.  IMAX makes this stupid, stupid movie worthwhile.

(2) When the fuck are they going to start putting bulletproof glass on the front of military helicopters?  When??
Bulletproof glass (technically bullet-resistant, since if you use a big enough bullet, nothing is bulletproof) is made to stop bullets. Bullets are for the most part light and fast. Shotgun slugs and old buffalo guns (not as crazy powerful as you would think of a buffalo gun as being, due to old technology) will go through most glass we have with current technology that isn't ridiculously thick. Those bows looked like they were firing arrows closer to what we would consider javelins, a few pounds each and likely flying a hell of a lot faster than any human archer can sling normal arrows. Sure, it would be possible to design glass that will stop the heavier slower rounds, but why? Everyone is using light fast rounds now. 100 years into the future, certainly we could make better glass, maybe even make it weigh less (the weight of an aircraft is rather important), but we will likely still be using light and fast. Armor is designed to protect against the weapons that are expected to be used against it, sometimes to the exclusion of protection from weapons that they don't expect to be used, and they don't seem to have designed their weapons to be more effective on Pandoran wildlife, no reason to expect them to modify their vehicles either.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 21 Jan 2010, 15:14
Yeah, armor is a funny thing. For example, it's a pretty common design for the outer layers of vehicle armor to be actually rather flimsy. That's because they want to save weight and because the purpose of the outer layer isn't necessarily to "stop" an attack, but rather to just cause anything that hits the tank to detonate early so the thick layers can hold up better. That's why you can find stuff like this out there if you look hard enough:
(http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9693/80172351mp7.png)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: pilsner on 21 Jan 2010, 19:45
Yes, I suppose it is possible that 150 years in the future, mankind has mastered faster than life travel but opts not to use a composite in  the windshield of a helicopter resilient enough to withstand a large piece of wood (maybe there's carbon fiber in the wood!!).  It just seems odd.  Especially when a puncture in the windshield has a fair chance of downing the vehicle what with the lethal gas it lets in and all.

This was hardly the most flagrant oddity in the movie, but it's funny because of the number of movies where a pilot gets perforated through the front of a flying vehicle.  There's something about cockpits that makes directors and screen writers seem to want to blow a whole right through them.  Firefly, anyone?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: KvP on 21 Jan 2010, 19:47
I suppose it is possible that 150 years in the future, mankind has mastered faster than life travel
Life moves pretty fast, if you're not careful you might miss it.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 21 Jan 2010, 19:53
Anyone who's ever flown from Australia to anywhere knows that humanity's got slower-than-life travel down pat.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 21 Jan 2010, 20:43
Yes, I suppose it is possible that 150 years in the future, mankind has mastered faster than life travel but opts not to use a composite in  the windshield of a helicopter resilient enough to withstand a large piece of wood (maybe there's carbon fiber in the wood!!).  It just seems odd.  Especially when a puncture in the windshield has a fair chance of downing the vehicle what with the lethal gas it lets in and all.
Why would they worry about such an outdated type of weapon as a giant bow? People stopped worrying about bows centuries ago from our time, you design armor to stop a certain kind of weapon. You can design it to stop just about anything, but it is expensive, can rely on something that won't last too long (like a top level of armor that blows itself up to deflect shaped charges), and will likely be heavy as hell if it doesn't rely on something like the cage in Alex's picture or the reactive armor that blows itself up.

Enough glass to replace a small sedan's windows, and this won't even protect against shotgun slugs or 150-year-old big slow lead bullets, will weigh around 200 pounds, at least that is the ballpark I worked up a while back working on a story. I would predict that bullet-resistant glass will get heavier and more capable, but they will never design it to stop big relatively slow pieces of wood, they would design it with new tricks to be even better at stopping standard small arms fire, maybe up into small anti-materiel rounds, although by that point weaponry will probably have advanced as well. Assuming each of those arrows weighed five pounds (big damn arrows, as I remember, the smaller ones just bounced off the cockpit), and fired at 400 FPS, that has the energy of a .50 BMG bullet, but weighs 50 times as much. It's comparing a chisel to a battering ram. With a hard enough wood, I would not be the least bit surprised to see them penetrate the glass. Consider that the glass I keep mentioning is penetrated by soft lead bullets when copper-jacketed bullets barely crack it, I am confident that there are woods that could do it.

The humans didn't seem to adapt all that well to Pandora. They didn't adapt their personal armor to be effective against the small arrows, they didn't adapt their weapons to be effective against the local wildlife (if you can unload what is normally a mounted machinegun into the face of an animal without giving it pause, you need to get some bigger guns), and they didn't adapt their vehicles for combat against creatures limited to bows and arrows.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: pilsner on 21 Jan 2010, 21:07
You seem really keen on explaining why this fictional future cockpit could be penetrated.  You're making it really difficult for me not to put a Freudian gloss on this discussion.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Nodaisho on 21 Jan 2010, 21:11
If my attempt at an explanation for the defensive capabilities of bullet-resistant glass is making things hard for you, that is your disorder, not mine.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 25 Jan 2010, 02:12
Star Wars 3D is nearly official. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1245686/Star-Wars-set-Avatar-style-makeover-earn-studios-billions.html)

Someone needs to steal the goddamn rights from George Lucas. Or kill him.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 25 Jan 2010, 03:14
Reading that crushed all my hope for Star Wars.  How many times has he changed Star Wars now?  extended editions and then the changes with the DVD's.  I'm fine with cleaning up the films the same way that Criterion and Kino do it and updating the sound. What he's been doing....is definitely not ok anymore.  Every time he does something like this I try to calculate the chances of ever seeing the original films again, no updates, no nothing.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 25 Jan 2010, 03:53
Gonna try to find the original originals on VHS somehow.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Inlander on 25 Jan 2010, 04:59
Nice choice of photo to accompany the story:

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/24/article-0-0138701500001005-879_233x361.jpg)

I'm guessing that's his "fuck you" face.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on 25 Jan 2010, 05:01
I bought the original trilogy films on dvd in a boxed set. Each one has a second disc with the theatrical versions of the films. It's great to be able to watch the originals with no other changes other than slightly cleaned up film and sound.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 25 Jan 2010, 10:12
watched Fern Gully for the first time in a very long time last night. it was awesome.

tim curry singing "toxic love" + christian slater + robbin williams as a bat > avatar


And I really liked Avatar!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 25 Jan 2010, 12:32
Hmmmmm

George must need a new SUV
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Blue Kitty on 25 Jan 2010, 12:54
I bought the original trilogy films on dvd in a boxed set. Each one has a second disc with the theatrical versions of the films. It's great to be able to watch the originals with no other changes other than slightly cleaned up film and sound.

Every time I see Hayden Christensen at the end of Return of the Jedi I die a little, I'm glad to hear there are unaltered versions of the DVDs.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 25 Jan 2010, 14:30
I bought the original trilogy films on dvd in a boxed set. Each one has a second disc with the theatrical versions of the films. It's great to be able to watch the originals with no other changes other than slightly cleaned up film and sound.

must buy
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 26 Jan 2010, 05:59
I have them - and in no way do I wish to see Hayden "can't act his way out of a wet paper bag" Christensen in some of my favourite movies.  That person turned the biggest badass in movies into a whiny teenager and I cannot forgive that.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: carrotosaurus on 26 Jan 2010, 06:31
The originals are on sale over at amazon right here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EN71DG/ref=oss_T15_product). -  $25 for the whole trilogy is a steal.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Theriandros on 27 Jan 2010, 09:30
Oh Jesus monkeyfucking Christ, please don't let the 3D thing happen.

3D makes me vomit. I wasn't physically able to watch more than 5 minutes of Avatar in 3D before leaving all my popcorn in a theater toilet and going home because the goddamn theater manager acted like an ass and refused any sort of refund, even to the point that I couldn't have a ticket to 2D Avatar.

Damn $13 ticket...
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Ikrik on 27 Jan 2010, 09:57
what was that? You WANTED (http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/saw-vs-paranormal-activity-war-gets-bloody-for-halloween-2010-box-office/) MOAR? (http://www.heatvisionblog.com/2010/01/harry-potter-hallows-3d-clash-of-the-titans-3d.html)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Theriandros on 27 Jan 2010, 14:16
I think I might blow something up if this becomes a thing.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Kugai on 27 Jan 2010, 14:21
Hmmmmm

I wonder if Paramount will make the next Star Trek film 3-D
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 27 Jan 2010, 14:35
funny story:

my friend's grandma is crazy. she sends him absurd things for presents when presents are due (christmas, birthdays etc.), sometimes even when they're not. A couple of days ago, he got an unusually thick envelope from her containing...wait for it....a pair of 3D glasses from some movie with a card saying basically"I thought you would like these. Here ya go."

In 2006 she gave him a used doggy chew toy for Christmas. Ironically enough, we actually had a blast with it, probably more so than her dog.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Chesire Cat on 27 Jan 2010, 16:27
I just want to point out... You know how old people are resistant to change and hate new things.

Fuck old people!
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Theriandros on 28 Jan 2010, 06:49
*is 19 and particularly resistant to this change*

Also, who besides other old people might actually want to fuck old people?
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Reed on 28 Jan 2010, 08:57
He would. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3l9IN287kY)
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: scarred on 28 Jan 2010, 13:48
not sure i want to click that link
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Border Reiver on 28 Jan 2010, 14:14
Some links are better left unclicked.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Alex C on 29 Jan 2010, 07:44
I'm not even mousing over that one to get a sense of where it goes.
Title: Re: the other avatar
Post by: Dimmukane on 29 Jan 2010, 08:26
God, you prudes, it's Skwisgar Skwiself.  Singing about GMILFs.