THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Professor Snuggles on 06 Dec 2009, 17:21
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So this is pretty much all I've been listening to recently, aside from Country Music. The Dream record is one of the best of the year, hands down, and Electrik Red is amazing just for WFY. I'm just getting into Gucci, but lovin this mixtape, Lemonade, Bingo, and Stupid Wild are all amazing tracks. A friend of mine always talks about how he likes Gucci cuz he sounds like he's just putting in like 80% effort into his raps, which feels fair to me. This is still damn good though. I have 3 good mixes from hpn of R&B and rap too, if anyone wants em.
To kick it off, here's the new Gucci Mixtape, the Dream record, and the Electrik Red record.
Gucci Mane - The State vs Radric Davis
http://www.MF.com/?zeimgmm4dqz
The Dream - Love vs Money
http://www.MF.com/?nazmnmmyezc
Electrik Red - How to Be a Lady Vol.1
http://www.MF.com/?mn0z52fkyyw
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I was thinking about starting a hip-hop thread, haha
Anyways, I have quite a few recs I'd love to share, I'm gonna upload everything and will make an epic post in a day or so... :mrgreen:
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Can you tell me the difference between Hip Hop and Rap?
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Rap is all gangsta and shit, yo
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took you long enough to get on that gucci tip, shit
I know right? I'd been diggin some of his shit but it wasn't all there for me, mostly just enjoying the idea of Miley Cyrus diamonds and shit, but then I heard that Game track he guests on, Krazy, and was just like, fuuuuuuck.
Also that Freestyle with O.J. Tha Juiceman. Fuccin love O.J.
Also Rap is almost always better than Hip Hop, if more misogynist. It's a shame, but Hip-Hop is always about feelings and shit, Atmosphere talking about how much he misses some girl.
Rap sounds like this awesome Crooked I EP, which you should all peep. Should Have Made a Phone Call is an awesome track.
Also, Harun, this isn't a thread for like, J-5 and shit. Not interested in that.
hxxp://www.mediafire.com/?i2n3zaoqzym
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You've never steered me wrong before.
Also damn I love P.O.S.
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Ok Pigface reminds me of Dub FX. Nice stuff
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uhhhh I kind of hate Jurassic 5. Not the kind of hip-hop I'm talking about.
Zombiedude and anyone else who like P.O.S, have you heard of the other Doomtree peoples? P.O.S. is great, but the others on Doomtree are just as amazing (if not more). And the Doomtree collective albums are also amazing (I was going to post these)
here's a song from the self-titled collective album, If anybody likes it I can up the entire album if not I'll just it post in mf!re :-P
http://www.mediaf!re.com/?tmxydmk2oyl
for RAP, Lil Wayne's No Ceilings mixtape is super boss (as they say). If you like Gucci you'll like that.
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Go for it
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Also Rap is almost always better than Hip Hop, if more misogynist. It's a shame, but Hip-Hop is always about feelings and shit, Atmosphere talking about how much he misses some girl.
No! Don't buy into backpacker paradigms.
Oh, yeah, also:
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The Dream owns
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I dunno, Weezy hasn't done anything I've loved outside of Young Money group tracks and guest spots since Dedication 2, but I've actually heard dece things about No Ceilings. Did he write shit for it, or is it still all freestyles?
Speaking of Young Money tracks though, y'all heard Bedrock? Infectious beat, great hook, pretty good verses although it could use more singing, really.
hxxp://www.mediafire.com/?ymrt2mmh30q
Johnny, since you're psyched on The Dream, peep Electrik Red. He and Tricky produced pretty much every song on it.
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Hip Hop is a culture, with its own music (rap), art (graffiti) and dance (the running man). Hiphop is thrown around as a term to describe rap music that pretentious white kids listen to because rap is for wigger pieces of shit chumps and hiphop is for smart people who like atmosphere because if you dont like atmosphere then fuck you. I digress on this note because rather than get myself riled up I don't want to lose sight of the fact that the RZA's new cd, Digi Snacks, is awesome. I was about to make a thread about it, and rap in general, as I spent most of the last few days downloading 7-8 gigs of the shit. It's hard not to just make a huge list, but for new(ish, last 2 years or so) rap music, there are a lot of gems that came out recently.
Rakim's "The Seventh Seal" is a solid release, a great MC who has proven for the last 20 years that he is a great lyricist and delivers lines like a paint truck.
Raekwon finally released "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx II", after 14 years since the original dropped in 95. Kind of how Loveless 2 wont have the right impact for My Bloody Valentine, Cuban Linx 2 is a great album that is definitely worth a listen, hype and delays aside.
NASA's album "The Spirit of Apollo" came out early this year, with a huge cast of acts ranging from Karen O and ODB to Kool Keith and Tom Waits. I imagine it's no secret but it's still worth a mention almost a year after it dropped.
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OK so here are a couple Doomtree albums. If you like amazing hip-hop that is well-produced (turntables?!), catchy, and has killer flow and - then these are essential. The collective albums are a little more varied since all members of Doomtree are on it - producers and performers, but I've been digging the shit out of the Mike Mictlan/Lazerbreak collabo album lately. Lazerbreak's productions is shit hot, and Mike's lyrics and flow is something to be admired. And it even has a P.O.S. guest spot - I dare you not to start spontaneously breakdancing upon listening to it. Last one I have is an EP by Dessa, one of the Doomtree members (she's the lady killin it on that drumsticks song). Her EP is a little more chill compared to her songs on the collective albums (more classical/piano samples, more singy-er), but if you like her parts on the collective albums then you should listen to it.
If you are going to try one album, try the Doomtree 'False Hopes' album. And if you like that, get the self-titled. If you like super catchy songs with awesome turntablism and production, get the Mike/Lazerbreak album. If you listened to Dessa's parts on the collective albums, then get her EP.
Doomtree - False Hopes
http://www.mediafire.com/?tnmwoiqjkaa
Doomtree - Doomtree (the one with that ^ Drumsticks song).
http://www.mediafire.com/?3tnn4wdzgij
Mike Mictlan and Lazerbreak - Hand Over Fist
http://www.mediafire.com/?tetvzmg2jnd
Dessa - False Hopes
http://www.mediafire.com/?jnjz2lyc2wj
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Here's something to judge a cover by.
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5489/folderyd.jpg)
http://www.mediafire.com/?i2hfmlkimme
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http://3-2-0.blogspot.com/ wonderful resource for a lot of great artists, definitely worth checking out.
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I might up Dr Syntax and some Mos Def. They're as far as my rap goes.
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i can already tell this thread is just going to make me angry with people
i'll up some dj screw later you fucking idiots
Sam can we just talk about gucci and stuff? This thread was mostly just for you and me and folks who like the dream anyway.
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Also I wish motherfuckers would just talk about music instead of only uploading things all the time. What if we just talked about things that are good, guys!
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uploading things
You uploaded a thing.
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Gucci Gucci (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK8kgK-TAnE)
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This is one of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbXSlm-SCK0
I also like the Gorilla Zoe tracks featuring Gucci. YouTube says there's a lot, I don't know.
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I'm taking this from the MF! thread, so it's not my link, but if it's not working I can re-up it. It's the fantastic Blakroc album. One or two weak tracks (particularly "Hope You're Happy") aside it's a solid play.
the Black Keys meets a lot of rap artists. My favorites are probably "Coochie", "On the Vista", "Dollaz & Sense", and "Ain't Nothin Like You".
http://www.mediaf!re.com/?dnfardfjykz
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Here is that Dub FX album I was talking about earlier
ripped straight from Mf thread too
http://www.mediaf!re.com/?wj2jm2quly0
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Also, Harun, this isn't a thread for like, J-5 and shit. Not interested in that.
That's sad to hear.
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yr gonna get yelled at Shane
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Naw, but y'all should be listenin to the dream for real.
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yeah, I listened to that The-Dream album and it was really bad. Easily the worst thing I've heard all winter. Then again, I fucking hate R&B so I'm obviously not the target audience.
also, Sam, are you seriously hatin on Blakroc?
I just don't understand you kids anymore.
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BACKPACKERS RAUS
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the new clipse drops on the 8th. it's already leaked, you can find it. impressions so far; to me it feels a lot clubbier than their prior 2 albums
Dude, the fucking Neptunes produced it. Be surprised it doesn't sound more clubby!
yeah, I listened to that The-Dream album and it was really bad. Easily the worst thing I've heard all winter. Then again, I fucking hate R&B so I'm obviously not the target audience.
uhhh actually "walking on the moon" is crazy good future music?
Kiff, that Electrik Red album actually has me instantly on the defensive just cause it looks like some serious Pussycat Dolls stuff.
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This is what I've been bumping recently, in the main. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVX6JGjNqIM)
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no it's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2R03A0dWqo)
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From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.
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That said, sheeeeeeit I wanna hear that remix shit with the flying lotus business for adult swim.
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SWM Blakroc is corny, i don't like the Black Keys so why would i want to listen to them getting all up in some rap that i wouldn't even like (excluding Raekwon)
i feel that this thread is for a certain type of rap, and Blakroc is most definitely not it.
BACKPACKERS RAUS
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This thread is for people who picked up a Kells CD once, put it back, then realized what just happened, turned around and bought it.
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this thread is for people talking like mr chi city (complimentary)
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It's really all about production. Those places that have notable and consistent producers putting out compelling stuff, I listen. I couldn't give a fuck about MCs. Baltimore had a formidable sound, don't know where it went. It's a shame DJ Screw died as the South doesn't seem to have any guiding lights behind the boards. Grime is still out there, and it's still good where it's not indebted to American top 40 wank. Not really interested in R&B because 99.9% of the time it sounds like somebody vomited chrome all over it. The less gloss the better, far as I'm concerned. So really all the most notable rap releases are either uninteresting to me because of tinny, faceless 808 production or over-the-top Diddy plastic bullshit ("Falsetto" is actually kind of good, but the rest of the Dream tracks that I've heard have been turds coated in glitter).
If Flying Lotus is the touchstone for rap production in 2010, it's going to be a notably shitty year. Dilla aside, the Stones Throw roster is pretty boring. Actually Flying Lotus is too busy for an MC to spit over - If we were to put money down I'd bet on Dam Funk being the trendsetter for '10, and as we know from over 10 years of lame G-funk, blatantly nostalgic 80's synth funk is incredibly easy to fuck up. So look forward to that. Funk.
As far as "backpacker" vs. top 40 rap, I tend towards liking backpacker shit more because, uh, the production is often more consistent. With top 40 stuff getting "big names" is a thing, and as a result a lot of the shit that comes out of it is pedestrian. In my experience the best albums come from partnerships - A lot of people seem to want to suck the Clipse's cock because of the intensity of their coke-rap shtick or whatever, but I think the best thing about the Clipse is that they bring out the best in the Neptunes and vice versa. And the Neptunes are probably better than anybody else at taking a paycheck and putting out a really remarkable sound. Timbaland's also good.
On that note, how about that MIA? I could take or leave Diplo's solo shit, but the sounds on the MIA records are so good.
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I mostly listen to Ludacris. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtQdMCF-es4)
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And DMX.
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Grime is still out there, and it's still good where it's not indebted to American top 40 wank.
Oh, can we get away with talking about grime in here?
Were you thinking of Skepta's Lush there by any chance? Because Jay Sean can really fuck off. I don't want smooth on a Skepta track, I want Skepta's slightly wonky singing comparing his skeng to his phone charger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T8foNyhMJs). JME's still good though (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncGA3Ea4ppU&feature=related), maybe not on top form but I like the bit where he's bragging about his Pro Evo skill. And personally I really liked Too Many Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKDixFhvCAU) even if it was a bit of a weak day at the office considering just how (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRjvHZi8Zoo) brilliant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28-nfRtn5sw) some of them can be when they're really on it.
Still, nothing from the BBK camp this year managed to outdo Ghetto's excellent diss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST0o1UKxqME), Freedom of Speech was pretty much just great throughout. Still waiting for that Random Impulse album, based on his range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80bBHpQmQ04&feature=related) on Full Metal Alchemist it should be brilliant. The video for Tempa T's Next Hype (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6G7qwjom4) was great and Westwood's hilarious, and the track's pretty decent too. And seriously, how good has it been to have Shystie back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OI7PX73tNA)? Referencing Woman's World (Gurlz Stand Up) too, god I loved that track.
Durrty Goodz is still kinda dominating (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjsT8bDUR-Q) everybody (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF1gR5EzmjY&feature=related) though.
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Man, as hard as I try, I just don't understand southern rap.
I just listened to four minutes and forty five seconds of "Street Niggaz" and I still haven't heard any rap. I have heard, however, a mediocre beat, some played ass synth swells, and a moron who can't enunciate mumbling some whack shit.
I'm not even aiming to be inflammatory here. Please do me a favor and explain what on earth is compelling about this music.
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Im A Street Nigga Dog Everybody Kno Dat
So A Hater Get Smashed Bond Money On Deck
Gave My Dog Half A Brick 4 A "73" Dunk
Got Dat Bull Frog Yah Cuz I Kno It Gone Jump
Im A Real Street Nigga Do You Understand Me
Im A Walkin Bank Roll Breezy Rubberband Me
Red Monkeys On My Ass Gucci Frames On My Face
Got Dat Tony Tiger Kush Man Pimp It Smoke Great
Every Time My Phone Ring Dog Its 18-5
Only Problem Dat I Have Is What Car Im Gone Drive
Im A Real Street Nigga I Aint Never Had Shit
Man This Chain Roun My Neck Cost 4 Or 5 Bricks
Im A Street Nigga Dog I Dont Love No Bitch
I Aint Talkin 2 You Baby Less You Buyin 10 Bricks
Bought A "06" Lamb Wit Da Butterfly Doors
That's A Quarter Million Dollars Gone Just 2 Pull Hoes
Im A Street Nigga Dog
Im A Street Nigga Dog
You A Street Nigga Just Like Me
Im A Street Nigga Dog
Im A Street Nigga Dog
No Industry Im In These Streets [x2]
Artistry.
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I gotta big weed stash, pocket full of cash
Just seen a big ol' ass, it's Saturday
Durrrrrrrrrty sarf.
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Here's an R. Kelly mix of songs from his new record, and some unreleased tracks, supposedly better than the album. It's pretty good, called Playa's get lonely.
http://www.zshare.net/download/69272998c22b88a9/
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Kiff, that Electrik Red album actually has me instantly on the defensive just cause it looks like some serious Pussycat Dolls stuff.
Harsh. Although I can kind of see what you mean, and So Good is a big fat pile of blah, but Drink In My Cup is really great. It's got a drunkenly sluggish synth part that sounds like it's one shot away from spewing in the gutter. Decently scummy and comes off like something that's signaling your night has taken a turn and it's all going to go wrong from here, but that's kind of alright anyway. I should probably listen to that album really, see if they can repeat it or if the rest will fall flat.
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Man, as hard as I try, I just don't understand southern rap.
I just listened to four minutes and forty five seconds of "Street Niggaz" and I still haven't heard any rap. I have heard, however, a mediocre beat, some played ass synth swells, and a moron who can't enunciate mumbling some whack shit.
I'm not even aiming to be inflammatory here. Please do me a favor and explain what on earth is compelling about this music.
Well there's no shortage of shitty rap coming out of just about anywhere, but there were some good southern rap movements, chopped'n'screwed and crunk among them. Crunk was pretty much a joke out of the gate and it didn't have anywhere to go, really, but when the production was good, it was great. I'm sure screwed music is still being made down Texas way at least, but since Screw died its profile has significantly lessened.
If you don't like the drawl of the MCs, that's fair. A lot of people can't seem to stand the way Grime MCs sound.
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Stones Throw is basically the hip-hop Jagjaguwar or T&G - consistent roster, everything you hear is gonna be quality, you know what you're getting into when you buy a record, everyone involved is probably kinda cool. Mayer Hawthorne dropped an insanely good record this year on it.
Man, as hard as I try, I just don't understand southern rap.
wow what a shock
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When I buy a Stones Throw record I know I'm getting drowsy. Savath Y Savalas and Koushik were the least essential albums I heard this year, and Toeachizown was just bloated, nice as the synth solos were.
Grime is still out there, and it's still good where it's not indebted to American top 40 wank.
Oh, can we get away with talking about grime in here?
Were you thinking of Skepta's Lush there by any chance? Because Jay Sean can really fuck off. I don't want smooth on a Skepta track, I want Skepta's slightly wonky singing comparing his skeng to his phone charger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T8foNyhMJs). JME's still good though (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncGA3Ea4ppU&feature=related), maybe not on top form but I like the bit where he's bragging about his Pro Evo skill. And personally I really liked Too Many Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKDixFhvCAU) even if it was a bit of a weak day at the office considering just how (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRjvHZi8Zoo) brilliant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28-nfRtn5sw) some of them can be when they're really on it.
Still, nothing from the BBK camp this year managed to outdo Ghetto's excellent diss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST0o1UKxqME), Freedom of Speech was pretty much just great throughout. Still waiting for that Random Impulse album, based on his range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80bBHpQmQ04&feature=related) on Full Metal Alchemist it should be brilliant. The video for Tempa T's Next Hype (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6G7qwjom4) was great and Westwood's hilarious, and the track's pretty decent too. And seriously, how good has it been to have Shystie back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OI7PX73tNA)? Referencing Woman's World (Gurlz Stand Up) too, god I loved that track.
Durrty Goodz is still kinda dominating (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjsT8bDUR-Q) everybody (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF1gR5EzmjY&feature=related) though.
This post guys. Wiley just got signed to Island, I give it a month. I've been listening to Terror Danjah's instrumentals for a little while, it's good. That Tempa T video is awesome.
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I'm probably not predisposed to agree with someone who doesn't like contemporary R&B production and lays down a dis on funk in his post soooooo
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I mean Flying Lotus dude, fuckin' really?
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There are much better wonky producers out there. Daedelus is from the same scene and he's much better. FaltyDL's on the East Coast and his album is one of the best of the year. When Brackles drops a full-length it's going to be tremendous. Ninja Tune is the gold standard for instrumental hip-hop as far as I'm concerned.
Flying Lotus' stuff is pretty good for Adult Swim ads, not so much for actual listening.
And anybody who doesn't think that off-brand G-funk of the last 10 years isn't weak shit needs to get their ears checked. It's everywhere, and it blows.
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And anybody who doesn't think that off-brand G-funk of the last 10 years isn't weak shit needs to get their ears checked. It's everywhere, and it blows.
It's not everywhere and it's barely even on the charts anymore. The last decade has been full of synths and aping (the bad) or expanding (the good) Timbaland (the middle) - ever since Stankonia dropped, the game has been about future music, dude. What sounds like "off-brand G-funk" in 2009? What even sounded like it in 2005? Snoop Dogg doesn't even do G-funk anymore.
Like I don't mean to be standoffish but you're doing nothing but contradict yourself and since this should realistically be full of people talking about how Cassie synths are basically aural Snuggies it's kinda grating against me. Haven't we had enough threads about anticon. wannabes already?
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And anybody who doesn't think that off-brand G-funk of the last 10 years isn't weak shit needs to get their ears checked. It's everywhere, and it blows.
It's not everywhere and it's barely even on the charts anymore. The last decade has been full of synths and aping (the bad) or expanding (the good) Timbaland (the middle) - ever since Stankonia dropped, the game has been about future music, dude. What sounds like "off-brand G-funk" in 2009? What even sounded like it in 2005? Snoop Dogg doesn't even do G-funk anymore.
G-funk is still around, it's just on shit records. The point was that if Dam Funk's "modern funk" (which is heavily indebted to the 80's in the same way G-Funk was) blows up, we'll hear stuff that's very similar coming out of trendy rap records, and that I'm not looking forward to that sound getting overplayed again.
Like I don't mean to be standoffish
Sure you do.
but you're doing nothing but contradict yourself
How? I don't like Stones Throw and I don't like slick modern R&B, because as a general rule I don't find them interesting enough to listen to.
and since this should realistically be full of people talking about how Cassie synths are basically aural Snuggies
I don't need you to tell me what I like about music, or how I like it. If you want another thread made where people who aren't you / kieffer / sam can talk about what you want to talk about, that can be arranged. I'm not talking about J-5 here. I'm talking about an aspect of rap that's not MCing, and what I like about it.
Haven't we had enough threads about anticon. wannabes already?
I really don't appreciate having some bullshit race card pulled on me. I don't even really like Anticon. They're in the same league as Stones Throw for me. And Doseone is a douchebag.
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This post guys. Wiley just got signed to Island, I give it a month. I've been listening to Terror Danjah's instrumentals for a little while, it's good. That Tempa T video is awesome.
Did he? Makes sense, Rolex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnezldGu7JU) was massive and deservedly so, it's a pure dancefloor filler. I rather hope things aren't fucked between him and the BBK camp, Skepta came off best with his diss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2XsD5yr0s) but when they team up it's just downright amazing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hP9pKCZmKo&feature=related).
I have to admit to kind of sleeping on Terror Danjah. I fully loved Cock Back obviously, and Give It To 'Em with Mz Bratt from The Warrior Dubs was banging too. I liked his flow on Quincy on Trimbal's superb Soulfood mixtape as well, but apart from that I've let him slip by. I should get on that.
Talking of Trim and Wiley, Taliban (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFVIOG9mHMY) you shitters.
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Man, as hard as I try, I just don't understand southern rap.
wow what a shock
I bet he's neither southern nor rap.
What the fuck are you guys talking about?
I don't mean I can't understand what they're saying. I mean, it is going completely over my head what people find sonically interesting about the music in question. It seems played and nauseatingly repetitive and I'm genuinely surprised to see people glorifying it who generally have great taste while simultaneously dissing really quality socially conscious hip hop.
It seems like such bland MTV garbage that it is beyond my comprehension. Correct me if I'm wrong? With examples?
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Right here man, with lyrics. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrsvWv_oFEA)
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Also (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QzwM62dy6M&feature=related)
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And then check out that reviewer's twitter: "Just had the new Gucci Mane cd dumped on my desk. Still better than loading bags of concrete into a pickup truck for greasy contractors."
I agree with this. Concrete is heavy and I am weak.
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Am I missing the irony in this thread?
Is this guy the Complete of rap artists?
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I don't understand how you're expecting anyone to justify the appeal of pop music to someone who has no interest in it. If social importance and lyrical content are what makes or breaks music for you, that rules out a vast chunk of music, and it's a little absurd for you to think there's some in depth explanation for why some of us like music about selling crack and using the proceeds to buy solid gold swiss watches.
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Honestly I think most people's critical apparatus goes out the window when it comes to Music That Is From The Streets
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plus it is generally excellent party music and driving music when you're driving for long straight stretches and you want to holler along to keep you awake
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Three Six Mafia is as far south as I can handle going and even that just barely
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plus it is generally excellent partystrip club music and driving music when you're driving for long straight stretches and you want to holler along to keep you awake
FYP! Actually a lot of southern rap seems tailor-made for strip clubs. Moreso back in crunk day, but still.
Also the more I listen to hip-hop/rap the more I come to mistrust this apparent divide between the two of them, as if they were entirely different animals. Fuck you, I can listen to Raekwon and Masta Ace in the same sitting. And I don't think that Brother Ali needs any kind of weak shit apologies because he doesn't rap about crime or his bank account. There's a certain deficiency to the idea that the only really compelling thing an MC can present is braggadocio.
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So how do we feel about Subtle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5HVRe7UDuc)? I like them, and most of Anticon in general, but then my taste in hip hop fits in this thread about as well as R. Kelly at an adoption center.
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I sort of kind of appreciate their attempts to infuse their hip hop with the avant garde, but when I saw them live they were just terrible. Doseone has a massive chip on his shoulder. 13 & God is pretty great though, eagerly awaiting their follow-up.
Anticon in general, eh. I'm not particularly enamoured of Sage Francis or Aesop Rock or the like (though I am fond of Buck 65's alt-country influenced records, and he's on Sage's vanity label at the moment) Their better producers, particularly Alias, seem to have a deep infatuation with Boards of Canada, but try as they might they never get nearly as good as their influences. I was a big fan of WHY? 'round Alopecia day but they too were awful live, and I went through the dissolution of a relationship while I was really into that album and thus it became impossible to enjoy later on. Haven't heard Eskimo Snow. I'm not sure if I'd call them hip hop though - I'd imagine they themselves would deny the label. They have pretensions "beyond" hip hop.
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Yeah, Anitcon has alot of shit, but there are some gems as well.
Subtle isn't bad but I've never really gotten into it. Aesop Rock is personal favorite of mine, I love almost everything he's done. Sage Francis has a song or two I like, but I kind of hate him. The rest...meh I dunno.
my favorite Aesop track of all time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6BEpiEC7nU)
edit: oh man, I just watched that video, I'd never seen it before, and it's absurd. also, it's edited which is fucking lame.
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The explanation said it was a university project. The song is still sick though.
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Johnny C what are you doing, I understand and agree with some of your arguments but you phrase them in a way that makes you sound like a hip hop version of that one Kid A review.
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I just want a Top 40 Enclave on this board so badly and this thread was so close
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Top 40 in general? Cuz uh, I really fucking like Transform Ya by Chris Brown. Oh man, and when Weezy says "betta tell your man he better get his Voltron up" I'm just all YEAH
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Top 40 in general? Cuz uh, I really fucking like Transform Ya by Chris Brown. Oh man, and when Weezy says "betta tell your man he better get his Voltron up" I'm just all YEAH
these both fit the criteria of this thread
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I'm still learning. I was one of those people that liked rap only from Minneapolis but luckily I have the biggest rap fan as my bff. It led to my favorite drunk facebooking of all time, which was me texting in "WU TANG CLAN AIN'T NOTHIN TA FUCK WIT" like five times then "I have the hiccups" then "STILL NOT FUCKIN WIT WU TANG CLAN"
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I am extremely guilty of facebook statuses related to not fucking with wu tang clan. I'm stuck with this thread, in that I love rap music and don't often get to talk about it, due to (as seen several times here) developing an eye-twitch with the "its not rap its hiphop" thing, or just not knowing enough intelligent people who also enjoy it.
And I have to reiterate, everyone, regardless of which side of the tracks you fall on, be it "suss the new jeezy disc bro" or "i like anticon and only anticon," everyone needs to give the new RZA "Digi Snacks" because it is awesome and falls into experimental or non-top 40, as well as being gangst to the end because nobody fucks with the clan.
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It can't be worse than Ghostdini, plus it's Bobby Digital - come to think of it, how have I not checked it out already?
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Ghost's solo career has been on a steady decline for a while, imo. My biggest problem is that his lyrics have gravitated so far into being strictly about pussy that it's not even that interesting to crack into these days. I still throw on Ironman once in a while but after Fishscale I think he kinda lost something. Cuban Linx 2 and Blackout 2 are totally solid by way of new clan cds, though.
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Fuck I can't stop listening to this Jason Derulo track. It popped up on Gossip Girl, but mostly the point is that it's just really really good.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jounkgztzom
Socially conscious whitey hip hop isn't bad at all! Some is really good, but for the most part, it gets repetitive, it gets boring, it's about feelings and girls which is just not right for rap music, and it's rappe by atmosphere, and god I hate atmosphere. If you guys need "underground" shit, you should scope MURS, who is really really good. I like MURS for president a lot. Johnny I'm witcha on the top 40 tip, real talk.
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Wu-Tang the spring before last was really disappointing. I saw them at The Fillmore at Irving Plaza, and they were four hours late to come on stage, though you could totally see them behind the curtain smoking up and not giving a shit about the audience. They would do fragments of songs, then get bored or disappointed in the audience's mild reaction and stop and move on to something else. Most of them missed half their lines.
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GZA was really good at ATP a couple of years back when he was doing Liquid Swords in its entirety. But then again I jizz all over Liquid Swords so maybe that's effecting my judgement, and it meant he had to avoid the medley thing. And ODB, he did Nigga Please at the end.
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Ah, he was pretty tight at ATP. That would fuck it right up, you'd know exactly what should be coming and then... nothing.
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Apparently going to the last Liquid Swords tour was like going to NASCAR for the crashes. I had tickets and just couldn't work up the courage to go.
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yeah a big problem of mine with rap concerts is that a lot of the time it turns into a medley
yes, this.
sometimes it works amazingly but most of the time i'd rather just hear the songs. Or some freestyling or something, since you know...I already have the fuckin cd.
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Live rap is usually bad, but there have been situations in which I've really enjoyed it:
- Del
- local Def-3 who nowadays usually just fronts Oye!, a Chilean band that plays Chilean party jams that he just raps over
- Buck 65 w/ Cadence Weapon, notable because Skratch Bastid was backing Buck and that dude KILLS IT, also Cadence Weapon behaved more like Henry Rollins or Pink Eyes or something, just running around screaming and jumping into the crowd and generally freaking out
- Snoop Dogg w/ Ice Cube (Snoop's performance got a little weird around his 10-minute Pac tribute though)
- Kanye West/Lupe Fiasco (Rihanna and N.E.R.D. were on this bill too but don't really apply to the discussion)
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That being said, I've seen some embarrassingly bad attempts at Live Rapping.
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I just want a Top 40 Enclave on this board so badly and this thread was so close
Why don't you just go to like.
Anywhere else in the world or internet where people listen to mainstream music.
Like a bar or club or something.
Just a suggestion!
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I enjoyed Snoop live when I saw him in Chicago but I'd also had several too many beers. So many I went swimming in Lake Michigan. Apparently it's really cold, but I didn't care. Some dude on this very forum was making fun of me like I had shit for music taste for liking it. We had all of Doomtree come once, and that was pretty awesome--especially POS obviously
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I have to say that I am not all that enamored with The Dream's album although Walking On The Moon is a pretty good track, I just find it quite boring and samey.
However, I have been enjoying this track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MuZfZDVbPI) lately.
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Anywhere else in the world or internet where people listen to mainstream music.
Like a bar or club or something.
Just a suggestion!
Cause there are people on here that I'd like to have this conversation with, people reading this forum who may be interested in it, and besides that there's an entirely different level and method of discourse between the people here than there is at a bar or a club re: Top 40.
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There is an entirely different level of discourse here precisely because top 40 music is not generally the target of discussion here. The lion's share of that kind of music is made with an entirely different level of criticism and a different set of criteria for its success in mind. To discuss it as we would discuss, say, Steve Reich, or Jets to Brazil or Fugazi or Godspeed you! Black Emperor would make absolutely no sense. Besides, I personally, and I bet a lot of others here, are here because a few years back I got sick of top 40. I had nowhere else to go but the Internet. Why would I, or anyone else in my position, want to start talking about it now? It hasn't gotten any better, and there's not half enough hipster irony in the whole western world to hide it.
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Cause there are people on here that I'd like to have this conversation with, people reading this forum who may be interested in it, and besides that there's an entirely different level and method of discourse between the people here than there is at a bar or a club re: Top 40.
Look Johnny, just because you're scared of real life black people.
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/4/4d/Emot-awesome.gif)
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Yeah woo Lady GaGa!
Explain. Maybe in a seperate thread.
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There is an entirely different level of discourse here precisely because top 40 music is not generally the target of discussion here. The lion's share of that kind of music is made with an entirely different level of criticism and a different set of criteria for its success in mind. To discuss it as we would discuss, say, Steve Reich, or Jets to Brazil or Fugazi or Godspeed you! Black Emperor would make absolutely no sense. Besides, I personally, and I bet a lot of others here, are here because a few years back I got sick of top 40. I had nowhere else to go but the Internet. Why would I, or anyone else in my position, want to start talking about it now? It hasn't gotten any better, and there's not half enough hipster irony in the whole western world to hide it.
This is just completely false. For a start, I've seen people talk about plenty of top 40 music on here and nobody bats an eyelid, and let's be honest here it's because it's top 40 guitar bands which are for some reason more acceptable. And why can't I talk about R. Kelly or Dizzee Rascal in a similar way to how someone would talk about Jets To Brazil? Is it because they've got far more diverse bodies of work than Jets To Brazil? Or due to the fact that they've had a much bigger impact on contemporary music perhaps? Please, explain why they're somehow lesser than the things you like just because more people listen to their music.
Besides, wouldn't you agree that there are some pretty good reasons to talk about culture that's immensely widespread and popular? There might be different reasons behind its creation but that doesn't mean nothing interesting or enjoyable is going on in the music.
Mind you, someone complaining about people talking about things other than top 40 hip-hop and r&b when they could just make a thread for that is a bit silly.
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For shits sake just start a top 40 thread, we've had them before, it's not a big deal.
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Please, explain why they're somehow lesser than the things you like just because more people listen to their music.
Come on. He never said the things he liked were better, he said they were different. I can quite easily accept that the criticism of Top 40 music has got to be different to the criticism of indie music just based on the different criteria for judging value that are involved.
Besides, wouldn't you agree that there are some pretty good reasons to talk about culture that's immensely widespread and popular?
AIDS is pretty widespread too dude.
LOL
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Come on. He never said the things he liked were better, he said they were different. I can quite easily accept that the criticism of Top 40 music has got to be different to the criticism of indie music just based on the different criteria for judging value that are involved.
Yeah but the idea that you can't talk about them the same way as [band x] is kinda nebulous at best and backhandedly insulting at worst.
Mind you, someone complaining about people talking about things other than top 40 hip-hop and r&b when they could just make a thread for that is a bit silly.
Well except that's what the thread was about at the kickoff, it was about this:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5499/chrisbrowngraffiti.jpg)
as opposed to the Rhymesayers stuff that we wind up encountering in every attempt to talk about hip-hop on this forum.
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I wasn't saying you can't. I'm just saying that if you try and talk about Top 40 music without bringing in metrics like, well, popularity, you won't really be covering it properly, and that these metrics aren't important for
real good other sorts of music.
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Actually there are plenty of intrinsic qualities to the music that you can talk about!
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For example, how sick this HEALTH remix of OJ is. The beat works way better with his highpitched mediocre rapping than one would expect. Sometimes I think OJ is actually better than Gucci.
That said, I feel like most of these tracks aren't going to be that good, or as good as the originals, at least.
Johnny, I feel like the point here is that people would rather criticize other's taste that they disagree with and assume that since it has characteristics that they dislike on principle (autotune, simple lyrics, etc) it is completely devoid of merit.
Speaking of autotune, I am kind of really intrigued by the fact that Kells is autotuning himself on some tracks. I figured that was just a thing to do if you can't sing that well, so the fact that he, with his amazing voice, is using it makes it seem more like an instrument, which is really cool, I think.
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I've noticed that on quite a few tracks; I mentioned Transform Ya before and Chris Brown uses it in there too, I'd assume to sound like a robot.
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as opposed to the Rhymesayers stuff that we wind up encountering in every attempt to talk about hip-hop on this forum.
Whenever I hear this I think about people who gripe about the Mainstream Media and how conservative voices are being silenced and I want to go back in time and shake their baby selves and say what are you talking about conservative voices are everywhere you look and besides everybody really loves Ghostface and Hova and Weezy and Wu Tang and PE so it's not like there's some fuckin' backpacker hegemony and then I shake them harder and say do you have any idea what it's like trying to talk to people about electronic music that isn't fucking Daft Punk or Justice.
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Speaking of rap music,
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcc05_dj-jazzy-parents-just-dont-underst_events
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now you're speaking my language
fuckin parents, am i right?
It's all about fuckin other people's parents.
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MF/DOOM is pretty cool,huh?
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There's even some videos about of T-Pain sans autotune and that guy can carry a tune on his own quite competently thank you very much
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I actually saw T-Pain live in concert, and he does a good quarter or third of his set sans autotune. He sang some of his club hits lounge style, with just a piano and no autotune. Even some songs on his albums have him singing without it, and while it may not be earth shattering beauty, he can really hold his own vocally. He gets a lot of shit for using it as a crutch, but hearing how good he is without it, I'm gonna say it's a stylistic trademark thing he's going for, not some way of compensating for lack of skill.
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I now realize I've been confusing two rap artists; the Game singing the Dream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdDHcW9TyPo&feature=fvw) and the other douche bag artist.
Also...
Speaking of rap music,
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcc05_dj-jazzy-parents-just-dont-underst_events
Will Smith came up this weekend when I was playing Apples to Apples with friends. As you know some of the cards have celebrities as the topic and they usually summarize their career; Will Smith was titled "hit hip-hop artist."
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I think what if Marie Baker got that abortion?
I love you Ma
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I now realize I've been confusing two rap artists; the Game singing the Dream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdDHcW9TyPo&feature=fvw) and the other douche bag artist.
i think this post is dissing the game and the-dream and Guess Who's Got Problems With That
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Are you guys up on Travis Porter? These are some really good fuccin tracks, yo.
All The Way Turnt Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69CMT63nz-c
Whatchu Talm Bout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es-CNSQQ0IE
Waka's on that second one. Sicccc.
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Good news everyone!
New Chris Brown mix tape, produced by DJ Drama. It's at least 75% sick, which I feel guilty saying as a rihanna fan.
http://www.hustlemania.com/hustle/2010/ ... s-mixtape/
Also, new dream track is straight fire.
http://islanddefjam.com/artist/discography.aspx?artistID=7288
And y'all should check out the Freeway and Jake One record, Stimulus Package. Real Talk gonna be the best rap record of the year. Trust.
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The URL got abbreviated! Is it this one? Well I guess it's the only thing that showed up on search: http://www.hustlemania.com/hustle/2010/02/14/chris-brown-in-my-zonerhythm-streets-mixtape/
Downloading now, I cannot wait to pump it.
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It is that one.
Particularly psyched on Bad, Shoes, and Twitter. These tracks are pretty well unfuckwithable, as far as I am concerned.
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Necroposting with the hotness.
Lil b the based god, straight fire real street shit, best fuccin beatz in the biz 2, nicca is just str8 ill no doubt no doubt. Don't sleep on this. Second track is a bangger 4 sur, first one is just straight up classic hood based god deep shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-z-GHVLfe8
http://www.youtube.com/user/lilbpack1#p/a/u/1/VkrD9oZLSlg
Also new the-dream is aoty.
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yes to both parts of that post
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i think the song i put on mix cd for this girl is "yamaha" but all i know is it wasn't "panties to the side" despite how much i wanted it to be
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Dude I want to put Panties to the side on every mix CD forever.
And fuccin Priceless.
And Veteran.
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Really I just want to fuck for like 12 hours with Fancy, Falsetto, and Turnt Out playing on repeat though.
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Watching you pretend to be black on the internet is extremely painful, Kieffer.
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hataz gon hate but fucc that shit nicca i'm based 4life, real talk real truth pure street nite bus shit nicca. u gon try n knock my shit but im bringing truth to these forums 100% and yr scared that mayb that truth aint a truth u can understand.
just b based cutty, dont trip on the hard shit the scary shit just 2based 4 life.
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killin y'all niggaz on that lyrical
shit. Mayonnaise colored Benz,
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5 bluntz in the day, my receptions cloudy
cuz the weed that I smoke, represents my salray.
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Also you guys weren't psyched on travis porter before but I swear to you this is one of the tightest R&B tracks in a hot minute.
Bryan J and Travis Porter - Let me Take You Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbTWpiv43Os
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Really I just want to fuck for like 12 hours with Fancy, Falsetto, and Turnt Out playing on repeat though.
right i used "turnt out"
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New Lil' B Video.
Pretty Boy Muzik.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFEpnkGIRrM
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Also you guys weren't psyched on travis porter before but I swear to you this is one of the tightest R&B tracks in a hot minute.
Bryan J and Travis Porter - Let me Take You Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbTWpiv43Os
Why do rappers dress like Justin Long now?
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Many of 'em have always dressed like that but you just couldn't tell with the hoodies and coats.
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out (BURR):
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4530/guccimanetheappealgeorg.jpg)
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Can't believe it took me this long to download that shit. Sooooo psyched.
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Okay I totally slept on the Odd Future stuff. Just grabbed Earl's Earl and Tyler, The Creator's bastard. Also their mixtape Radical. Will report back.
Incidentally, how fucking good is the Rick Ross record? And the Kanye Record? And the Ciara Mixtape?
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If you ain't up on things... (http://www.drdre.com/kush/Revealed.aspx?ref=nf)
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Yeah that track is decent but like, it's a dre track. Compare it to all the other sicc shit that's happening and it's like, this is still a dre track. Sick though.
OFWKTA is totally amazing though. Earl and Tyler are clearly the best of em, but the Radical mixtape is sick.
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There are too many people on this board to not have better rap discussions, what the fuck.
Anyway that Dre track isn't THAT bad but like, it's a dre track.
Also Odd Future. Just listened to the MellowHype stuff, and I dunno. I mean the only release of there's I'm not super psyched on is the Domo Genesis Rolling Papers mix tape. Gonna bump Jet Age of Tomorrow on the walk home tonight and see but I'm pretty sure these dudes are saving hip hop.
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Hey Kieff what do you think about the new Kanye West album.
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I just don't care about top40 hip hop. The beats are good but I can't relate to the lyrical content. I've never been a millionaire, I'm not good with women and I don't understand violence.
I do care about less well known/promoted hip hop. I can understand and relate to the songs because they tend to be about far more diverse concepts.
Here's an interesting mini-debate about sexism in hip hop, worth a watch if you consider yourself a fan.
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/11/05/black-intellectuals-and-artists-on-sexism-in-hip-hop/ (http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/11/05/black-intellectuals-and-artists-on-sexism-in-hip-hop/)
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I used to think like that but then, really, I don't identify with most of the lyrical content of music I listen to. I mean, I still don't listen to Top 40 hip-hop but that has more to do with how it's pretty much artistically bankrupt and cliché-ridden instead of any whiny liberal outrage.
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Hmmm, I'd agree with that also. Lyrics are important though, we are talking about hip hop here, not post rock or metal. Hip hop without lyrics, while awesome (I'm looking at you DJ Shadow/Flying Lotus) is still something of a subgenre and certainly not a major commercial player. I don't think you can disregard lyrics when it comes to hip hop.
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I don't think you have to be possessed with 'whiny liberal outrage' to find the vast majority of top 40 rap to be moronic woman-hating neo-minstrel bullshit. And as Rizzo said, it's not exactly a genre where you can ignore the lyrics because the lyrics and how they're sung is like the whole fucking point. Especially in most of the rap I hear on the radio where the beats take 'dull', 'insipid' and 'overused' to new, dizzying, never-before-reached heights.
The reason there's not much discussion going on in this thread is because JC and Kieff have practically said that this thread is not for the discussion of 'alternative' or 'intelligent' rap music, but mostly rap music where black dudes are paid shitloads of money by white record industry execs to play up negative racist stereotypes about themselves for a predominantly white audience.
Whatever.
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Hey Kieff what do you think about the new Kanye West album.
I mean I have pretty much always hated Kanye, at least as a rapper, but I love this thing. It's doing everything I liked in 808's (being really catchy but not exactly easy to listen to sometimes) without him tryna swag too hard when he spits. The production is amazing, obviously, and like, if you listen to All of The Lights, or Power, or Runaway holy shit Runaway, you can see that he's not going as hard as himself, but then he lets Rick Ross just tear it up in Devil in a New Dress.
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As for the rest of y'alls comments, I dunno, man. I think it is pretty incredibly ignorant to say that there is no depth to rap music's lyrics, even the mainstream radio stuff. Like, sure, they aren't rapping about the socioeconomic state of the underprivileged, or the tragedy of life in America, or even comparing various girls they're in love with to various things, but the idea that it's just simple "murder bitch money, check it I talk funny" seems woefully uninformed. The amount of wordplay that goes into, for example, the average Jay-Z track is stunning ("attract money my worst color is light green") and even those Odd Future kids are mad funny, for example "hell's angel, crack christ cross the face with erasers and use based god as his replacement." Based God referring to Lil B, who is another one of those really awesome rappers. The idea of raps continuity is another thing that really appeals to me, that all these disparate artists are working together, in the same universe, and reference each other. It's egotistical but it's also communal, and that's rad. You can like a rapper and think "man I hope he works with ____" and he probably will.
That's fuccin swag, you know?
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Anyway, downloading the new Soulja Boy, and I'm psyched.
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Also part of the reason I like rap music is BECAUSE I can't relate to the lyrics. I have enough feelings of my own, I don't need John Darnielles too, at least not all the time.
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Anyway, downloading the new Soulja Boy, and I'm psyched.
One beat, one lyric, repeat ad nauseum.
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I think the only rap I listen to that I relate with would be Das Racist.
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It wraps up ever Soulja Boy song I've ever heard.
I mean..it was only like two and a half of them, but still. You write a song where you spend about 80% of it going "GUCCI BANDELA!", Sam. Tell me that's a good song.
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Do you perhaps mean "bandana?" also comment on solja and nuffink else, rly?
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Dude it certainly sounded like "bandela" to me.
As for other rap, I'll agree with Zombiedude that Das Racist are cool shit. And Shad is cool shit (and a pretty nice dude!)
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I've been listening to a lot of Big L lately because I've been rocking my iPod on shuffle and letting it choose for me, and I have waaaay more Big L on my iPod than I even realized existed. Classic.
I've also been listening to that Astronautalis album from the MF thread a little while back and, while I certainly hate a lot of aspects of it, I can't help but get hyped on some of the songs. The guitar solo in the beat of the first track "do you believe in life after thugs" is fucking sick, and some of the later tracks are awesome too, though usually for weird reasons.
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Anyway, downloading the new Soulja Boy, and I'm psyched.
What is WRONG with you?!
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hey if you think chart hip-hop across the board is minstrelsy or misogynistic or whatever and you have jstor access then i'm going to suggest that instead of publicly clowning yourself as you are currently doing you should actually look at the broad, vast field of study that's been done on the subject and understand that it's way more complicated than that and the stuff you've been exposed to or intentionally exposed yourself to has been remarkably narrow and that there are arguments to be made but your contextualization of them is seriously lacking. yes khar i am speaking directly to you but also anyone reading this thread. i know these discussions are being held elsewhere because i just wrote up a research proposal on gender roles & sexualities in chart hip-hop and had to do a lengthy annotated bibliography.
also cali swag district is probably my favourite current rap crew i think, their beats are just so awesome and they're such a playful bunch of dudes
e: and like relatability is a weird argument. what do you need to relate to? why do you need to relate to it? do you relate to the immediate & direct content or do you kind of hope for like an aristotlean universal in the particular, rather than just relating exclusively to the particular itself? and why can't the contents of rap express things which are deeply relatable, even stuff that's big on the charts? i have so many questions cause as a critique it just doesn't make sense. like i definitely don't relate to latter-day scott walker or a bunch of parenthetical girls songs or fela kuti, at all, but i love records and songs from those artists.
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One beat, one lyric, repeat ad nauseum.
A novel critique!
Well there is a reason they call it "ringtone rap".
I guess you could levy the same charge at, say, footwork (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwulvzzAipI&feature=related) but that would be, you know, dumb. There's a difference between doing something and doing something well.
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Anyway, downloading the new Soulja Boy, and I'm psyched.
What is WRONG with you?!
Shit's Swag boo.
First Day of School, Fly, Blowing Me Kisses all go hard. Pretty Boy Swag remix is fucked up good.
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hey if you think chart hip-hop across the board is minstrelsy or misogynistic or whatever and you have jstor access then i'm going to suggest that instead of publicly clowning yourself as you are currently doing you should actually look at the broad, vast field of study that's been done on the subject and understand that it's way more complicated than that and the stuff you've been exposed to or intentionally exposed yourself to has been remarkably narrow and that there are arguments to be made but your contextualization of them is seriously lacking. yes khar i am speaking directly to you but also anyone reading this thread. i know these discussions are being held elsewhere because i just wrote up a research proposal on gender roles & sexualities in chart hip-hop and had to do a lengthy annotated bibliography.
also cali swag district is probably my favourite current rap crew i think, their beats are just so awesome and they're such a playful bunch of dudes
e: and like relatability is a weird argument. what do you need to relate to? why do you need to relate to it? do you relate to the immediate & direct content or do you kind of hope for like an aristotlean universal in the particular, rather than just relating exclusively to the particular itself? and why can't the contents of rap express things which are deeply relatable, even stuff that's big on the charts? i have so many questions cause as a critique it just doesn't make sense. like i definitely don't relate to latter-day scott walker or a bunch of parenthetical girls songs or fela kuti, at all, but i love records and songs from those artists.
Look Johnny said exactly what I was trying to say but much better! And still everyone is gonna thing rap music is really stupid, but whatever.
JC, peep Odd Future though, for real. Also is there a Cali Swag District mixtape or album? Dougie is hype as fucc but I haven't heard anything else.
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Anyway, downloading the new Soulja Boy, and I'm psyched.
What is WRONG with you?!
Shit's Swag boo.
First Day of School, Fly, Blowing Me Kisses all go hard. Pretty Boy Swag remix is fucked up good.
Also, look at this fuccin video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGJCT3R154
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Been listening to a bunch of AZ, lately. Dude was so good.
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hey if you think chart hip-hop across the board is minstrelsy or misogynistic or whatever and you have jstor access then i'm going to suggest that instead of publicly clowning yourself as you are currently doing you should actually look at the broad, vast field of study that's been done on the subject and understand that it's way more complicated than that and the stuff you've been exposed to or intentionally exposed yourself to has been remarkably narrow and that there are arguments to be made but your contextualization of them is seriously lacking.
Emperor's New Clothes woop woop.
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Emperor's New Clothes woop woop.
okay either respond with something that indicates you've actually put effort into backing up making the kind of really broad assertions you've made or for the last time shut the fuck up with your terrible ideas about rap TIA
kieffer, the kickback is comin out in january but in the meantime the next single off it is "kickback" which nails it
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Johnny you're invalidating my experience. How dare you.
EDIT: I think that the fact that you consistently feel the need to justify your affection for various sorts of popular music by what is not in fact a reasonable argument but a sort of pseudo-academical intimidation (shotgunning out sources and naming grand-sounding theories and schools of criticism in a blustering effort to impress others with your scholarship) speaks volumes about your relationship to this music and that the content of these volumes is not entirely flattering towards you, though they are nowhere near as repugnant as Kieffers shallow, priviliged appropriations and postures. Just a thought.
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Emperor's New Clothes woop woop.
okay either respond with something that indicates you've actually put effort into backing up making the kind of really broad assertions you've made or for the last time shut the fuck up with your terrible ideas about rap TIA
kieffer, the kickback is comin out in january but in the meantime the next single off it is "kickback" which nails it
Jesus, they don't have a single mixtape? Isn't this 2010? Weak.
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Johnny you're invalidating my experience. How dare you.
EDIT: I think that the fact that you consistently feel the need to justify your affection for various sorts of popular music by what is not in fact a reasonable argument but a sort of pseudo-academical intimidation (shotgunning out sources and naming grand-sounding theories and schools of criticism in a blustering effort to impress others with your scholarship) speaks volumes about your relationship to this music and that the content of these volumes is not entirely flattering towards you, though they are nowhere near as repugnant as Kieffers shallow, priviliged appropriations and postures. Just a thought.
hold up, this was not about my attitudes towards it, this was about you suggesting that "the vast majority of top 40 rap [is] moronic woman-hating neo-minstrel bullshit," and probably not even knowing that one of the articles i referred to that makes an effort toward refuting that or complicating it is in fact from bitch magazine. i could give a shit about whether or not people are impressed by my scholarship, but this isn't about what i know, it's about what you know, which is how to be a contrarian and very little else, at least in this regard. if you aren't a fan of rap, okay, whatever, and if you don't think the beats on top 40 are particularly hot you've got a lot of examples to choose from that would in fact prove that point. if we were just arguing about whether or not beats, rhymes, lyrics, songs &c. were any good, that'd be different.
but - to be clear - what i'm upset about, and what i think i'm perfectly justified to be upset about, is the weird moral streak that you seem to have when it comes to hip-hop. and i'm also morbidly curious about why you choose to single out rap and why you choose to make the claims you make. there's plenty of chart hip-hop released in the last few years that actively refutes the claim that top 40 stuff is inherently misogynistic (ie, for example, "best i ever had," which was in its way a dude-centric song but not particularly flattering toward said dude), and since pretty much every genre is clogged with misogyny anyways i can barely figure out why that is a critique you would exclusively choose to level at rap. the minstrelsy comment is really ugly, too, since it implies things about performer and audience that as one white dude to another i'm not sure either of us is qualified to make. but i'm not even sure what songs you would be talking about.
if you'd care to name examples – i.e. perform a kind of sourcing of your claims that is common in academia but is also pretty much expected if you're going to level claims like that in any level of adult debate – then we could have conversations about that. but you're not doing that and you don't seem interested in doing that, and then you try and fall back on a defense about i'm invalidating your relationship to the music, or another defense that implies that the reason i listen to music is because i like to perform academic autopsies on songs or something, which is equal parts vaguely offensive and super incorrect. instead of making this about me and the way i listen to music, if you're going to make a moral or political argument about music why wouldn't you just fucking back it up with some proof? especially when you're going to make an argument as broad and damning as "neo-minstrelsy."
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I'm singling out chart hip-hop because this thread is about chart hip-hop.
The invalidating my experience line was a joke, grow a sense of humour! You're so quick to fly off the handle these days JC, I really don't get it. Is it related to your poseurish abandonment of writing posts in proper english grammar?
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yeah yeah listen stick to the argument at hand, which was that you single out chart hip-hop solely among genres to pick on for misogyny and i am legitimately interested in why, as opposed to picking it out in, say, metal, or indie rock where it's actually fairly prevalent
sorry that i'm calling you out on saying some bullshit but that's not really flying off the handle, that's pointing out that you're wrong and ill-informed and that you refuse to own up to it
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Why would I talk about metal or indie rock in a thread about hip-hop?
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come on, you're being obtuse in an attempt to back out of what you said and it's really transparent – it's really painfully obvious that i mean you don't barge into other threads and declare their subject matter misogynistic, so it seems a little shrill to do so here. the next thing you're probably going to say is something along the lines of how it's just an internet forum and i ought to relax or you're just trying to prod me or whatever but you said something really ignorant and frankly it's embarrassing that you won't either back up your argument or just admit that you said some ridiculous shit.
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basically what I am sayiBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
(http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/vuvuzela.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6G7qwjom4
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it's really painfully obvious that i mean you don't barge into other threads and declare their subject matter misogynistic,
If anyone ever makes a thread about metal and declares that we can only talk about Poison, Ratt and Whitesnake then I would, in fact, be happy to make such criticisms.
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Me her her and her, grab her by her hair
Big girls in here, girls touchin on girls
Get her by her garter, grab her by her heels
Make her pop a pill, still let her hit the blunt till
She feels like I feel, will not just cost a lil
Climb her like a hill, these hoes are for real
Me her and her friends, they look like they twins
She so fuckin fine that I touched her up again
Told her last time she can bring her other friend
Then I lost her number never seen again
The best brain in the world, do her thing with a girl
But don't call her yo girl, or let her hang with yo girl
I am not even trying, this is literally some of the first lyrics I found.
I mean it's fine if you enjoy this shit, I guess, but don't try and make some cultural and historical studies bullshit case for it not being mass-produced, woman-hating and propagating very easy media stereotypes.
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I think in a way you're right. As a couple of reasonably educated, white English dudes, are we really going to claim that we necessarily understand the culture which produced the lyrics you just quoted or can we accept that it's essentially alien to us to the point that our perspective can't really be trusted upon for effective criticism? I don't understand or listen to mainstream rap either but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand because I can acknowledge that the clash of cultures in this instance is severely obfuscating.
As opposed to Johnny and Kieff who are just too black, too proud.
TOO BLACK
TOO PROUD
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New G-Side leaked and it's really tight.
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I mean, is there a level of irony or sarcasm that I am completely missing, or do you seriously like this shit? This is like Millionaires level shit. It is not better just because there is a big black dude embarrassingly grinding out the lyrics.
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Wait what, does Johnny like Millionaires? I feel this is an important piece of the puzzle I am missing.
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my google alert just went off, did someone put "johnny" and "millionaires" in the same post
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What is going on Johnny, why is Tommy saying these awful things, are they true?
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I mean, is there a level of irony or sarcasm that I am completely missing, or do you seriously like this shit? This is like Millionaires level shit. It is not better just because there is a big black dude embarrassingly grinding out the lyrics.
You deleted a post.
Also, we don't really benefit at all from more people saying they don't like rap music in this thread I don't think.
But if it makes all of the haters feel better the new G-Side samples Beach House.
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Johnny I have never listened to Millionaires based on what you know about my taste do you think I would enjoy their music?
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But if it makes all of the haters feel better the new G-Side samples Beach House.
What if I hate Beach House too, like more than I hate mainstream rap
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Has anybody been listening to that various OFWGKTA related albums? Especially Bastard?
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Yeah. They're amazing, mostly. Just saw them live a little while back, they're fucking unbelievable.
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Posting this in both threads, because seriously listen to G-Side if you like music with beats and raps.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6jf4mr4an5n1qi6
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FREE WAKA
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But if it makes all of the haters feel better the new G-Side samples Beach House.
What if I hate Beach House too, like more than I hate mainstream rap
then fuck you Dovey
-
beach house kind of sucks
Somehow I manage to always confuse Beach House and Best Coast, but they both kinda suck.
-
beach house kind of sucks
fuck you also
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i'm flipping out and waving my arms everywhere and just pissing all over the place. look how mad i am
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Johnny, sometimes I think your ears are broken, but then again you make good music.
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these estates would be nothing without beach house and bathory
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uhhh allhiphop is reporting that rick ross' new album title is god forgives, i don't
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If it is 75% as good as Teflon Don it will be 50% better than most records I heard last year.
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uhhh allhiphop is reporting that rick ross' new album title is god forgives, i don't
Was gonna make fun of this til I remembered the name of the new Mogwai record
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Wait, I'm not saying that I don't like rap music. I like rap, I just like my rappers not to be mumbling incoherently over tinny, unimaginative dross that sounds like its been recorded in a bathroom. Like, I paid way too much money to watch a pair of 50 yr olds rapping last night, and they were still better than this new shit.
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The butter salesman?
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something something swag uhhhh (http://www.todaysbigthing.com/music/2010/11/16)
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Okay seriously here is a youtube of a G-Side Track. It is ridiculously tight. It is not even close to the best song on the record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl0lCo5U1-Y
RIYL: Dirty South with a little intelligence, spacey slow beats with enough bass to fuck you up, sick flows, good music. Also like outkast or something I guess, but the earlier shit.
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Oh hey this is pretty good.
In fact I'd say it's very good.
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Yeah you should download the record.
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Wow this is fucking great
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I mean I wasn't that impressed by that youtube video but it grew on me really quick once I downloaded the album.
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Ok, that is pretty good. Like, I wouldn't listen to it regularly, but I can actually see how someone would like it.
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But I just went back again through each of the youtube links before that and it's all really horrid, embarrassingly bad rap over generic, bullshit beats.
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I mean it was pretty obvious this board would like G-Side, they're just close enough to backpacker shit to appeal to people who don't want straight gangster even though they rap about cocaine and bitches.
Also est I dunno if you really can dislike all the youtubes based on beats, like, the Bryan J and travis Porter song has an awesome fucking beat to it, and so does the Earl track Sam posted. The flows on Earl are sick too.
Also also, for y'all hating on Lil B(everyone) this track is one of his best, imho, and well worth a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9HYMorqtyo
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Who's hating on Lil B
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Me me I am
(that myspace tune is certainly an improvement over everything else I've heard from him but I'm still not getting the ridiculous hype. Unless it's all "ironic" in which case you like music because you don't like it and fuck you)
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OK OK so I've been to a few more Lil B tracks off the related videos from Myspace and once again they're fine and all. Maybe the guy can write rhymes, and I just got introduced with entirely the wrong stuff (Pretty Bitch, Like a Martian, anything where he rhymes "bitch" with "bitch" like four times in a row and tops it with rhyming it with "dick".) I'm not hating on the dude just because, but some of his shit is truly fucking dire. Like cool if you like him for his more polished stuff but are you really gonna justify his incredibly stupid freestyles along with it?
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the thing with lil b is that usually even if his rhymes are weaker the beats hit it pretty hard, and even if they're like kind of goofy a song like "i'm miley cyrus" or "i'm bill clinton" are at the very least really funny; i mean, in its own totally gonzo way, "colin powell chain and you know i'm straight thuggin" is a really amazingly funny line.
best lil b freestyle is "i'm a fag i'm a lesbian" i think
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right yeah i mean he tends to avoid anything resembling consistency but he makes up for it with like absolutely stupendous turns of phrase and completely out-there imagery
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Yeah I just hate having to dig through piles of shit to find diamonds. That goes for anything, not just the BasedGod or hip-hop. Any music. It's maybe not the most healthy attitude to have but I figure when I have access to basically any sound I want instantly, on demand, then fuckers can't be fucking around.
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Also I feel like all this talk of Lil' B i deflecting attention from the far superior B in the game: B-Shoc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D7iT2MT00o)
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Yeah I just hate having to dig through piles of shit to find diamonds
i mean w/r/t my last post "consistency" was referring to "in the rhyme structure"
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Kieffer, that Lil B song is about a million times better than the other shit earlier. But I just checked out about 5 other Lil B videos and they are all really terrible. I probably just saw all the ones Dovey was talking about. Some really slow, horrible, amateurish freestyle and a few other videoclips.
Like, is this new shit a reaction to the autotune business a while back? People have to sound as bad as they can to prove they're real or something? That's about the only thing I can think of for this actually being a thing. I'm not an overly avid rap fan, but at least with basically everything else I can listen to it and understand how someone might like it.
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i mean w/r/t my last post "consistency" was referring to "in the rhyme structure"
Also, the phrase "bitches on my dick 'cuz I look like [whoever]."
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Like, is this new shit a reaction to the autotune business a while back? People have to sound as bad as they can to prove they're real or something? That's about the only thing I can think of for this actually being a thing. I'm not an overly avid rap fan, but at least with basically everything else I can listen to it and understand how someone might like it.
it's kind of a sideways offshoot of southern rap, i think? hyper-druggy, semi-conscious, but still concerned with wordplay, just not as concerned with speed. and repetition plays heavily into it in ways that like have been used in other forms to decent effect. but it's really distant from trad east/west coast-style hip hop in terms of flow & approach so there's a lot of ways where if that's your speed of rap you might have a hard time figuring out what's decent about something as kind of... monotone? as lil b.
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Yeah, all this shit is monotone, the words are slurred, the flow is erratic at best, and the words seem really fucking dumb. I'm trying to find what's good about the bit of lyrics Sam posted, but I just can't.
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the thing with lil b is that usually even if his rhymes are weaker the beats hit it pretty hard, and even if they're like kind of goofy a song like "i'm miley cyrus" or "i'm bill clinton" are at the very least really funny; i mean, in its own totally gonzo way, "colin powell chain and you know i'm straight thuggin" is a really amazingly funny line.
best lil b freestyle is "i'm a fag i'm a lesbian" i think
I saw a thing on TV about this dude last night, and really..I mean..stuff like Soulja Boy, seems like it requires minimal effort. With Lil B, it seems like he was actually phoning in the minimal effort. Seemed like a rad dude though. Just not very good at music and rappin'.
*beat* I'm Ryan Dempster (SWAGGGG) I'm Ryan Dempster (SWAGGGG) Throw a fuckin' baseball (SWAGGGGG) *end*
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Yeah, all this shit is monotone, the words are slurred, the flow is erratic at best, and the words seem really fucking dumb.
the first three are what's good about it and on the fourth we'll have to disagree
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does everyone remember that harvey milk review where the guys think it sounds like retard rock. i think this is a similar situation
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Weingarten cranks out another incisive piece of journalism (http://popdust.com/2011/01/13/why-did-gucci-mane-tattoo-an-ice-cream-cone-on-his-face/)
(http://popdust.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/gucciManeTattoo.jpg)
Beleaguered rapper Gucci Mane has finally emerged from Atlanta’s Anchor Hospital after a judge ordered him to undergo psychiatric tests. Upon his release, he showed off how sane he is… by getting a enormous tattoo of an ice cream cone on his right cheek!
fixed yr link bruv ––jc
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Is he trying to out Mike Tyson Mike Tyson?
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The dude has a shitty EA tattoo on his throat, he's well and truly out-Tyson'd Tyson.
EDIT: Ahhhh, here it is;
(http://www.etidbits.com/wp-content/plugins/lazyest-gallery/uploads/Gucci%20Mane/slides/Gucci%20Mane%20tattoo.jpg)
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Don't be so critical, that's a deep meaningful tattoo (if you're into selling crystal meth).
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gucci + ice cream = i am very happy
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Is anyone else struck by the vaguely phallic nature of the tat?
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Nope, just you. Guess you're just the kind of guy who sees dicks everywhere, huh? In tattoos, in public statuary, in yr butt &c.
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The dude has a shitty EA tattoo on his throat, he's well and truly out-Tyson'd Tyson.
EDIT: Ahhhh, here it is;
(http://www.etidbits.com/wp-content/plugins/lazyest-gallery/uploads/Gucci%20Mane/slides/Gucci%20Mane%20tattoo.jpg)
I am willing to bet he has the EA for E ast Atlanta.
Just sayin.
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That's entirely possible but that doesn't make the fact that he chose to represent his place of origin with a video-game company logo any less fucktarded
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Also he has a fucking ice cream on his face with "brrr" on it. Is that a thing other than the stupid fucking basically racist Coke ads?
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It refers to crystal meth, also known as ice, which is damned chilly, brrrrrr. The delicious triple scoop ice cream could represent the allure of the highly addictive drug. Or not.
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BURR!
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Orrr he's just icy with jewels?
OR HE IS INSANE
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I find a better way to let the world know that you have a lot of jewels/jewelery is to WEAR A LOT OF JEWELERY
That being said, as I have demonstrated numerous times in this and other threads, I know nothing of this world.
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FUCK THAT I'm a vampire FUCK THAT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9GGceNU-f0)
Timeless.
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absolutely imperative that you watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbZidsgMfw)
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i feel like i slept on ofwgkta for way too long in light of that vid
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hot ass beat clap
Did he really eat the cockroach?
I LOVE ALL THIS HATRED! TYLER DOESNT GIVE A FUCK OF YOU LIKE HIM OR NOT LOL
OF BUTTERCUP, GO AHEAD, FUCK WITH US. WITHOUT A DOUBT A SURE FIRE WAY TO GET YOUR MOTHER FUCKED. ASK HER FOR A COUPLE BUCKS, SHOVE A TRUMPET UP HER BUTT. PLAY A SONG, INVADE HER THONG, MY DICK IS HAVING GUTS FOR LUNCH!!
SUCK MY DICK ROCKERCHICK!
OFWGKTADGAFLLLSBB GOLF WANG BITCHES!!?!
This has been flagged as spam
FUCK! yesterday this clip only had 300 views. FUCK YOU PITCHFORK
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unironically down with like 90% of those comments
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Track is so sick. Just copped it off iTunes too, think it's the first time I've ever paid for digital format music. Know the dude doesn't even need the money but still let him swag his shit the fuck out, plus it's got an extra verse over the youtube version.
Fucking love these dudes, just stupidly good at rap music.
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Tyler the Creator signs to XL (http://pitchfork.com/news/41562-tyler-the-creator-signs-to-xl/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+PitchforkLatestNews+(Pitchfork:+Latest+News)), for this album at least.
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absolutely imperative that you watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbZidsgMfw)
so i just now watched this for the first time and holy shit
seriously that is a fantastic fucking thing there
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78_loMbmKJ8
Earl is also sick.
I thought you guys were whack when this thread was about Gucci Mane but I'm really feeling Odd Future.
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absolutely imperative that you watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbZidsgMfw)
I honestly do not get it.
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I like MellowHype better.
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Earl is also sick. (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24243.msg967259.html#msg967259)
this thread was about odd future five months ago
i slept on them so hard
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False Man Postin' On The Gray Boards
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absolutely imperative that you watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbZidsgMfw)
I honestly do not get it.
Really digging this. Not big on the homophobia but love the line about Bruno Mars. Fuck that guy. The minimalist/noisey beat is sweet too. Reminds me a bit of Tom Waits.
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you're talking about when he's all "i'm not gay" right?
i don't think he was being overly homophobic there. i mean, he was talking about dancing around the house to Adventure Time while wearing pink pajamas or something, so it's more of a humorous "i'm not gay! really!" than a serious "i'm not gay because that shit is WRONG" type thing, because obviously he doesn't care. also, the following line about his mom never understanding him makes it seem like she would probably interpret that as gay, even though it's not. does that make sense?
meh i dunno, i thought it was funny
i was definitely a little put off by that part at first too but once i figured out the rest of the lines around it and got some context, i didn't really care anymore
question: does anyone know if that flow is from a freestyle or something? it definitely feels like a freestyle but it could just as easily not be
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I think it's more the "I'll crash that fucking airplane that that faggot n***** B.o.B is in" line which Rizzo is taking exception to.
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oh, i didn't know he said faggot right there since he shouts it so angrily, it's kind of hard to understand. i don't even know who or what B.O.B. is so everything in that line after "airplane" was like gibberish to me
nevermind then!
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just downloaded Tyler Creator's BASTARD and....uh...it has it's moments.
alot of it is pretty offensive and fairly shitty; weird non-beats with lots of talk about rape and a bunch of faggot-this and homo-that. couple of good songs though.
not even close to the level of that yonkers song
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I think it's more the "I'll crash that fucking airplane that that faggot n***** B.o.B is in" line which Rizzo is taking exception to.
and which is like weird & tough to parse in relationship to the bit swm was describing. still don't know quite how to feel about it (except insofar as i know i really don't like the word)
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Anybody who is as confused by Lil' B as I am/was will probably find these two artifacts illuminating:
Article on NPR (http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/01/27/133245953/lil-b-understanding-raps-new-rebel)
Interview on Fader TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akEURYfYVRQ&feature=player_embedded#at=33)
The dude's signal-to-noise ratio means that I'll probably never be a based-head (too much damn effort) but I definitely understand where the guy comes from and respect what he's trying to bring to the game. Still, he could probably use some quality control nonetheless.
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I was hoping he would say "Please welcome... ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL!"
Kind of disappointing that they had to Puff Daddy their lyrics. But it's great that they had somebody either playing a Kaossilator or a game boy.
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GOLF WANG SWAG SWAG WUT
That was too much, too fucking much. Holy shit.
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Well holy fuck, after this and Yonkers I can tell why nobody's shutting up about these guys.
-
Odd Future is currently blowing up my FB feed. 5 people I know have posted the Fallon vid today.
-
A dude hugged me the other day for acknowledging Odd Future's existence.
-
Shit just got real.
-
SWAG DANCE
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgr2xhjL1M1qbd7ej.gif)
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also, Wiz Khalifa also has a new mixtape Cabin Fever (http://www.datpiff.com/Wiz-Khalifa-Cabin-Fever-mixtape.200862.html) that is produced by Lex Luger (aka same dude who produced Flockaveli)
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Odd Peanuts Wolf Gang Kill Them All (http://opwgkta.tumblr.com/)
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Really like Yonkers, but I find that I like OFWGKTA the less I listen to their music.
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I mean obviously Yonkers was made to be a sell-out track. He wanted to make something that carried the emotion and would still get him paid. He succeeded admirably. If you're down to listen to Tyler and Earl rap about rape, then fuccin swag it out, Earl and Bastard are both amazing records. Not surprised the board can't hang with a lot of it though. If you can't hang with that, MellowHype's Blackendwhite is actually maybe my favorite OF release, and it's way way toned down as compared to the hard shit. Complaining about homophobia in rap music is kind of pointless at this point though.
Also saw this on facebook
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/Seanbateman/Picture1-1.png)
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Also I haven't had a chance to listen to the Flocka yet but fuccin MYSTIKAL is on a track so SWAG SWAG SWAG.
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Complaining about homophobia in rap music is kind of pointless at this point though.
why?
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For the same reason it's stupid to complain about like, John Darnielle singing about feelings? It's what it is.
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So you're saying that this subgenre of rap is inherently and indelibly homophobic and bigoted, and to remove that from it would damage its essential qualities? Or are you just being foolishly fatalistic?
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also John Darnielle singing about feelings is a bad comparision because there is nothing morally dubious to having "feelings" be the subject of a song
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So you're saying that this subgenre of rap is inherently and indelibly homophobic and bigoted, and to remove that from it would damage its essential qualities? Or are you just being foolishly fatalistic?
I'm saying it doesn't matter. Complain about faggot, complain about nigga, complain about the sexism inherent in calling someone a pussy, complain that fuck is an offensive word, all you're doing is distancing yourself from the music. If it sounds good, listen to it, its not your job to save the world from other people's opinions or speech patterns, and trying to claim that your moral compass is more valid than Tyler or any other rappers isn't benefitting anyone but your own sense of ethical superiority.
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That may come off as a little offensive, and I really don't mean it to be. What it comes down to is if the language offends you, don't listen to it. I feel like you'll be missing out on some of the most original rap music in 10 years, but if calling someone a faggot is an insurmountable barrier for you, than don't listen. You wont be bothered by the morality if you don't hear it.
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psh Shad is way better.
-
It's hard if you're a structuralist. Guys rapping about murder isn't all that objectionable given that nobody seriously condones murder - that's a sort of vaudeville. But plenty of people seriously condone rape and of gay-bashing. It's pretty obvious that the dudes are rapping about rape to get a rise out of people but there's remarkably little distance from reality there. It's just exaggerated in the case of sexual assault (forcible instead of "grey" rape, etc.) and not really exaggerated at all in the case of homophobia. It doesn't really have anything to do with OFWGKTA in particular, and with culture in general.
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I'm saying it doesn't matter. Complain about faggot, complain about nigga, complain about the sexism inherent in calling someone a pussy, complain that fuck is an offensive word, all you're doing is distancing yourself from the music.
You know what distancing myself from bigots and their music doesn't really seem like a bad thing. Actually it's kind of a good idea, if you don't want to look like one yourself!
Personally, I don't know if OFWGKTA are actually homophobes. That's not even the point. The point is, by some mysterious mechanism, I am apparently not allowed to state any discomfort due to them or any other musical artist appearing to be so. I would appreciate it if someone could explain why I, an active participant in western culture, am not allowed to have a dissenting opinion about an artwork that exists within that arena?
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Basically I take offense to the lazy notion that "if you don't like it, don't listen/look at/read it". It insinuates that people ought to merely passively absorb culture instead of being active in changing, forming and creating it. If that's all you wanna do that's fine, whatever i guess.
this is not to say I particularly feel strongly one way or another about OFWGKTA. Yonkers is pretty okay! most interesting thing posted in this thread yet, minus the homophobia.
edit: I had another thought-- seeing as the initial response I made was in reference to the notion of whether criticising homophobia in rap had any merit in general , probably shouldn't have attatched "I" to it in my previous post. Personally I'm not that keen to make a big issue of it myself; it really isn't something i spend a lot of time thinking about. but hearing it said that it was nobody's business to make such a criticism was just too ridiculous a blunder to pass up.
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Something to ponder; Syd tha Kyd, OFWGKTA's engineer and only female member, is a lesbian. Explains these lyrics from Yonkers: "While Syd is tellin' me that she's been gettin' intimate with men/(Syd, shut the fuck up) Here's the number to my therapist/Tell him all your problems, he's fuckin' awesome with listening," which implies the concern for Syd's well-being is due to the fact that she's sleeping with dudes and not girls.
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Well I guess we'll just have to pull her lesbian card
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Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that Syd's lesbianism explains or excuses the homophobia present in OFWGKTA's music, only that it might indicate they're "adopting the mantle of a homophobe" as Tommy said. The consequences of homophobia being professed by a narrator in a song (whether or not the artist in question is homophobic themselves) is at the heart of what is being debated, not OFWGKTA's particular prejudices.
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I'd point out that gay manhood and lesbianism are really two different things, especially when lesbians also have sex with men. Homophobes just hate that most of all.
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Had anyone said this I would surely be agreeing with you but I think it was just one ambiguous sentence.
the initial one was ambiguous to be sure, and it didn't go quite that far but following ones did say just that: to decry homophobia in hip hop was nothing but high-and-mighty posturing. It isn't, for one thing, and for another it isn't pointless to complain about it, unless, as mentioned before, you are a defeatist who doesn't think culture, this or any other one, can ever change!
As for the point you wanted expansion on, I think it's simpler than you are thinking. An active response to an artwork can merely be a comment about it. It's better than deciding to not listen to it, in the same way that writing an article about how fast food is bad for people can have greater effect that merely making the personal choice not to eat at mcdonald's ever. Ideally you'd do both.
You are indeed right to say there's a lot of gray area here and the idea of how music lovers should position themselves in regards to the politics of the artists they listen to is a difficult issue. And I'd like to talk about it a bunch more because it is really interesting! I guess the only real salient point I am trying to make here is simply that the sheer complexity of our pluralistic, layered confusing culture does not absolve anyone from criticism, even if the critic cannot guarantee full understanding of the context of their work. Nobody can guarantee that. Furthermore, it is not a pointless excercise to attempt to criticise elements of art and/or culture you disagree with, especially considering how effective that very activity has been in the last sixty or so years.
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really I think that's it's own thread now though huh
I'm not gonna start it right now though I am going to bed soon.
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psh Shad is way better.
My dogg. o/
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\o
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Sorry to steer the conversation way from debate for a sec, but where should I start with Lil' B? I've heard he has a problem with consistency, so I'd like to know which songs/albums/mixtapes are good and which are wack
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I'm not familiar with most of his mixtape work, but Angel's Exodus is as straightforward as B gets in my experience. It's in one of the mediafire threads.
If you'd like to take the train to memetown nab Red Flame. Should be free.
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Silly John, all music is free
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Sorry to steer the conversation way from debate for a sec, but where should I start with Lil' B? I've heard he has a problem with consistency, so I'd like to know which songs/albums/mixtapes are good and which are wack
Evil Red Flame devil music muxtape just dropped, it's super tight, also six kiss and I'm thraxxx
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(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1646/uhmvj.jpg)
SWAG
:psyduck:
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Nice haircut
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Odd Future Gets Signed (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ee0a63a6be/odd-future-gets-signed)
Tyler on Based God (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRVf5JQ2qfs)
Mellowhype sign to Fat Possum (http://www.fatpossum.com/news/138)
OFWGKTA vinyl yeahhhh
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Mellowhype sign to Fat Possum (http://www.fatpossum.com/news/138)
!!!!
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The Frank Ocean LP is actually super tight. Kinda surprised until I found out Tricky Stewart produced a bunch of it and Ocean has been helping Stewart write for the last year or so.
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Yeah that seemed to take everyone by surprise.
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(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhgptv4VfA1qc0cxpo1_500.png)
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Clams Casino. one of the best/best-named recent producers, this is an instrumental comp of songs he's done w/ lil b+others. all great (http://www.thefader.com/2011/03/02/lil-bs-rare-rap-nose-ring-clams-casinos-instrumental-mixtape-mp3/)
This is boss as hell just get the boys around and get torn up and rap about being on a porch with four dudes and rap about rapping and maybe ride a skateboard down a set of stairs in slow motion, i don't know.
Checked the thread real quick, didn't turn up anything by King Fantastic, I'm playing their album a lot lately I guess I really like their swagger, like its music you put on headphoens and stroll down the street at exactly the right pace to feel like a motherfuckin pimp even if you are normally some scared looking guy in a cardigan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIuERobmLqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NPtcdUWV6o&playnext=1&list=PL38AAB4F10B60F942
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FShYNgyhTsc
Also I have this thing where every now and then I check in on what Fatman Scoop is doing and here you go,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTWQqoFWIZQ
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The Knight Riderz remix of "Westcoastsynthezierbeachbumgangstermusic" was my jam back in Feb
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Youtube comment:
"CANT BELIEVE EARL GOT BENJAMIN BUTTON SYDROME THAT SUCKS DAWG....
PEOPLE SAYIN FREE EARL BUT HES REALLY A BABY NOW DAMN THAT BENJAMIN BUTTON SYNDROME"
Heheheh.
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In about a week, I will be seeing OFWGKTA.
And Yelawolf.
And THE FUCKING BASED GOD.
SWAG.
ME.
THE.
FUCK.
OUT.
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BASED TAPE (http://www.livemixtapes.com/mixtapes/13382/lil_b_illusions_of_grandeur.html)
(http://images.livemixtapes.com/artists/unknown/lilb-illusionsofgrandeur/cover.jpg)
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Busta Rhymes can still kill it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUkmyHOYHMk&feature=player_detailpage#t=97s)
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(http://cdn.pitchfork.com/media/ismokebecause452.jpg)
I appreciated the reference (http://gilscottheron.net/images/6t.jpg).
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SWAG SHOW (http://www.avclub.com/articles/odd-future-making-a-pilot-for-adult-swim,53128/?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds&utm_source=avclub_rss_daily)
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RETURN OF MR ZONE 6
DAMN IT's a GOOD DAY
(burr)
(http://i.imgur.com/2Pl2f.jpg)
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uhhhh ¯\(ºдo)/¯ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul6jekqd6nA)
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Nardwuar vs. Odd Future (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcHxiWwubnk&feature=player_embedded).
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White People!
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Nardwuar clip is one of my favourite Nardwuar clips ever.
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N: So your mom is half-canadian?
T: Yeah my mom is... What the fuck?
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best part's when nardwuar asks them about a group they did a show with like four years ago and tyler asks "are you with the feds"
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I think the best part of the interview is Hodgy's general attitude through the whole thing.
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So hey did Taco get kicked out of OF or is that just some rumor
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I figured that was a troll, though
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Guys, I'm really digging the Frank Ocean album.
Really digging.
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Nardwuar vs. BASED GOD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mmbb6lwatI).
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i'm really on the punk rock. like mars volta
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Nardwuar vs. BASED GOD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mmbb6lwatI).
YES! After the OF one, this is exactly what I needed to happen.
All the tags!
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First wide release Big Freedia EP coming (http://www.xlr8r.com/mp3/2011/03/excuse).
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Free Big Freedia... Free! (http://www.scionav.com/music/scionavremix/index.html#general2,76140031)
Also, free Hodgy Beats track (http://thequietus.com/articles/05970-listen-new-hodgy-beats).
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If you don't like this song then you're a homo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsM4bI63iaQ)
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Odd Future Vice Photoshoot (http://vimeo.com/22306538)
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THEY FOUND EARL (http://www.complex.com/music/2011/04/complex-exclusive-we-found-earl-sweatshirt?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)
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I had no idea Curren$y was as swag as he is.... Smokey Robinson is a blast. I especially enjoy that he samples Ice Cube's 'Today Was A Good Day', cus I heard that a lot when the Paul Rodriguez/Nike ad was out.
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Look at my hat: it's cool - Tyler and Hodgy on BBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87RuPH8u1n4)
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So Goblin is pretty fucking ill guys. Tyler's production and rapping are a step above Bastard and certain moments are just jaw-dropping; check out his flow when the beat speeds up at the end of "Fish," it blows my mind
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i just started listening to it a minute ago and it's already so much better than bastard
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"Kill people, burn shit, fuck school, I'm fucking radical I'm motherfucking radical"
Or you just became the Slipknot of hip-hop
But it is the best OF release I've heard
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i liked "i'm dracula, bitch"
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Tyler gets candid with the Swedes (http://psl.svt.se/psl/2011/05/03/lar-kanna-odd-future-tyler-the-creator-intervjun-del-6/)
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Wait, is the Swedish for Interview really "Intervju"?
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Taking a trip to Baltimore next week to visit friends and see OF in concert, SWAG
Expect full details following the show
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bring a golf club with a dildo attached to it
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Holy shit Odd Future best night ever
Syd & Mike G signed my hat, then later I smoked part of Left Brain's blunt outside their bus after I talked with him about his production on Mellowhype stuff, particularly the bomb-ass bassline on "Polyurthane." Also my body hurts all over goddamn was the mosh pit insane
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Pics of the hat please
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(http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab325/desolationrow10/oddfuturehat.jpg)
Left Brain signed it as well but as you can see, the pen was almost out of ink. I have no idea why Mike G wrote "HH Kief" instead of his namesake; does anyone know if it's another recording alias?
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also Left Brain's tumblr has this gem of a photo:
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liuuo33bHS1qa5e2jo1_500.jpg)
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brilliant
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(http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab325/desolationrow10/oddfuturehat.jpg)
Left Brain signed it as well but as you can see, the pen was almost out of ink. I have no idea why Mike G wrote "HH Kief" instead of his namesake; does anyone know if it's another recording alias?
You should give me that hat because my nickname is Kief and yours is not.
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Also remember when odd future was cool
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Jehst has a new album on the way. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK04-IxxfIw)
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Some Manchester rap for ya'll. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58lQuJWjDoU)
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Going all the way the back to the original post, I just heard Yamaha by The-Dream and it blew my mind.
Which of his three albums is the best one to get?
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i'd say go for love vs. money over love king first
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Hey what does everybody think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WJFjXtHcy4) I can't work it out
Although "I got the swag and it's pumping out my ovaries" is undoubtedly the line of the year
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based
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catchiest song 2k11.
imma go and listen to it some more.