Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Koremora on 12 Jan 2010, 19:31

Title: Where to start?
Post by: Koremora on 12 Jan 2010, 19:31
It seems a common problem for people wanting to get into a new band/musician/composer with a large back catalogue and many reisssues: where does one start? I figured it would be good to have a thread where people can ask this question. I'll start.

I've been meaning to get into Steve Reich for a long time, but the massive body of work the man has coupled with the multiple reissues has left me a bit lost. I've heard that Music for 18 Musicians is the best starting point, but what recording is the "best"? Is the Phases box set worth it?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Zingoleb on 12 Jan 2010, 19:47
Also, is someone's "best" work the best to listen to first? Then it sort of seems like such a disappointment to their other ones thereafter.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 12 Jan 2010, 20:18
if you were a real music nerd you'd go chronologically
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 12 Jan 2010, 20:21
Sometimes that seems like a good idea, except it encourages a really bad habit I have of getting an artist's first two albums and liking them a lot and never moving beyond them. And on the other hand, some bands with shitty first albums get way better.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: sean on 12 Jan 2010, 21:17
music for 18 is what you should spin first. after that listen to different trains, its a string quartet with a pretty badass use of vocal samples.

Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Koremora on 12 Jan 2010, 21:27
Okay, but which recording? EMC or Nonesuch?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Zingoleb on 13 Jan 2010, 07:59
if you were a real music nerd you'd go chronologically

If I started listening to Pink Floyd with Syd I'd probably never get into them, period. Seriously, fuck Piper at the Gates of Dawn.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 13 Jan 2010, 11:53
Where to start query two: Where do I start if I wanna listen to this The Fall all the kids these days are going on about?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 13 Jan 2010, 11:56
Where should I start with The Wire?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: sean on 13 Jan 2010, 12:22
Okay, but which recording? EMC or Nonesuch?

im pretty sure my copies are nonesuch at least for different trains. i couldn't tell you what my recording of music for 18 musicians is though. it doesn't matter that much though im sure one is better.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 13 Jan 2010, 12:22
Where to start query two: Where do I start if I wanna listen to this The Fall all the kids these days are going on about?

I am no expert on the Fall, but I think the two albums most commonly cited as major touchstones are Hex Enduction Hour (1982) and This Nation's Saving Grace (1985). Personally, I think the Fall is a band best discovered chronologically. I started by listening to Live at the Witch Trials and Dragnet, which were both released in 1979. Dragnet is one of my personal favourites. Basically everything from 1979-1986 is unfuckwithable, after that I am a bit hazy. If you want to check out what they are up to these days, their most recent album Imperial Wax Solvent is pretty solid.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 13 Jan 2010, 14:02
Unlike the Machine, Tommy IS a Fall expert. He knows his shit.

My small contribution, as far as the Fall goes, is that I actually fell in love with the band after I heard their two tracks on Short Circuit: Live at the Electric Circus. Seriously, "Stepping Out" and "Last Orders" are fucking ace and made me want to grab more by The Fall immediately.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 13 Jan 2010, 14:14
i can say this about The Fall:

if you ever decide to listen to all of John Peel's Festive 50 countdowns, and you thought you were a Fall fan, prepare to get utterly fucking sick of them very quickly.

i would recommend one of their most underrated/forgotten 90s albums, "i am kurious oranj", for their later stuff.  otherwise stick to their 80s albums, unless you really want to hear a lot of forgettable aimless/tuneless songs with mark e. smith vaguely rambling over them as if he couldn't be bothered to actually "sing" in any kind of relation to the music.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 14 Jan 2010, 01:53
i would recommend one of their most underrated/forgotten 90s albums, "i am kurious oranj", for their later stuff.

That's actually from '88. And it's not that forgotten for a Fall album, even inspiring and providing the theme for The Curious Orange (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiZBMs9hD-I&feature=related) on Lee and Herring's short lived but fondly remembered This Morning With Richard Not Judy (Stewart Lee is an enormous Fall fan).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: onewheelwizzard on 14 Jan 2010, 02:02
Seriously, fuck Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

(http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao/facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 14 Jan 2010, 02:27
Piper at the Gates is cool and all but it's certainly not the first Floyd record you should hear (or second, third, fourth, etc)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Zingoleb on 14 Jan 2010, 09:17
Astronomy Domine is the only good song on there. Bike is  funny and enjoyable because it's horribly goofy.

I used to be obsessed with Floyd, but by the time I was starting to get into the Syd-era my interest was waning.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 14 Jan 2010, 15:30
If I started listening to Pink Floyd with Syd I'd probably never get into them, period. Seriously, fuck Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

"Interstellar Overdrive" is so fucking good what are you talking about
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 14 Jan 2010, 15:39
That's actually from '88. And it's not that forgotten for a Fall album, even inspiring and providing the theme for The Curious Orange (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiZBMs9hD-I&feature=related) on Lee and Herring's short lived but fondly remembered This Morning With Richard Not Judy (Stewart Lee is an enormous Fall fan).

ah, for some reason i could have sworn it was from '92 or so.  and i say "forgotten" because i've never really seen anyone talk much about it.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Zingoleb on 14 Jan 2010, 16:03
If I started listening to Pink Floyd with Syd I'd probably never get into them, period. Seriously, fuck Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

"Interstellar Overdrive" is so fucking good what are you talking about

What are you talking about? (I have no idea which song that was, I listened through to the album twice and only picked up the names of the two I enjoyed)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: adara on 14 Jan 2010, 20:35
I don't think you can "get into" music. You may want to listen to a band and see if you like them. You can't mean to like them. You will or you won't. You can't force it.

That being said, follow the suggestions of others that have posted here...but don't make yourself like a band just because you want to get into them because they are critically acclaimed and respected.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: BeoPuppy on 15 Jan 2010, 01:53
Based on your posts so far ... are you just an excellent typer blind, fast and/or otherwise?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: BeoPuppy on 15 Jan 2010, 02:36
Huge walls of texts seemingly typed extremely fast. Just wondering.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 15 Jan 2010, 02:37
If I were to guess (and I would) in all likelihood the hows and whys of music fandom are things that Tommy thinks about hard and often. Enthusiasts are good for nothing if not generating a lot of analysis quickly. Given the chance I could hammer out a page of stream-of-consciousness ramblings about RPG game design in a flat minute, since it's something that I immerse myself in on more or less a daily basis. Every nerd's got a thing.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 15 Jan 2010, 18:59
fff whatever dude you basically just articulated my aesthetic in a way I never could, you jerk
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: adara on 16 Jan 2010, 17:35
Kenickie this, Kenickie that

Your post, despite being a highly intriguing read, did not dispute my original statement. You cannot choose to "get into" a band/artist prior to hearing them. You may not have liked this Kenickie band at first, probably because you didn't want to like it (the exact opposite of trying to get into a band). While it's all well and good that you like Kenickie despite your feelings towards the sub-genre of music it is supposedly classified as, in no way does your tale run contrary to my statement that you cannot just decide to "get into" a band. If someone says this, it means that they have probably heard from music critics or music geeks or someone they admire or wherever that the music is "good". However, what music is "good" is entirely subjective based on one's own opinions. This is why when you question different demographics, there is a good chance all of them will have a different favourite band. You cannot decide you like something before you hear it, unless you entirely irrational and would rather let other people tell you music is good or bad instead of deciding on your own.

"Casual listeners" vs. "Music Hobbyists", Coffee, Instant gratification, something something something

I am not sure where to even start with your post. First, I have to wonder if you even like yourself or if you have merely worked hard to construct your likes to appear "sophisticated", "eccentric", or "cool". I wonder where you draw the line between alleged music hobbyists and casual listeners. Are casual listeners people who listen to Top 40 radio or a band that is hugely popular, like the Dave Matthews Band? What makes you so much better than a person who likes music that is popular amongst others? People like what they like; it does not make them bad people. It seems you have a spent a lot of time listening to music; good for you. People who may not listen to these bands likely have other interests, such as athletics, or automobiles, or fashion, etc.; they would likely find YOU and your music obsession uninteresting. It works both ways. Just because someone don't like obscure music does not make them any less interesting, or any more interesting.

I also don't see how you think you are better at listening to music than the "casual listener" because you have to listen to albums and bands you hate at first multiple times before you like them. Repetition breeds content. The more you listen to crap, the more you will like it (not to necessarily say that you listen to crap, but who knows). This is evident with many of the songs on the Top 40 radio station. Many are not good, yet if you hear them every hour, eventually you may find them sticking in your head (at least until the next "new" sound comes around).


In Conclusion:
I think you and Jeans misconstrued my original post - I was merely saying that you can't decide prior to hearing something that you are going to like it, just because it is said to be good. Sure, with bands that have massive catalogs, it is often helpful to find a good place to start your listening. BUT you should go in with an open mind. "I am interested in hearing what such-and-such sounds like. What is a good place to start?" is a much better question than "I've been meaning to get into...".
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 16 Jan 2010, 23:33
What are you talking about? (I have no idea which song that was, I listened through to the album twice and only picked up the names of the two I enjoyed)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2wud_RqEaM
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Tom on 17 Jan 2010, 02:12
Kieron Gillen/Jamie Mackelvie's Phonogram

I'm sorry but I have to point this out. Gillen and Mackelvie's Phonogram 2: The Singles Club is one of the best graphic novels/limited series you will probably ever read if not, then certainly the best of last year. The last issue is sure to come out this month so the trade, through Image, is just around the corner. A quick google will tell you all you need.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: rynne on 17 Jan 2010, 06:20
Okay, but which recording? EMC or Nonesuch?

I'd say ECM, and also second listening to Different Trains next.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: ruyi on 17 Jan 2010, 07:13
You cannot choose to "get into" a band/artist prior to hearing them...If someone says this, it means that they have probably heard from music critics or music geeks or someone they admire or wherever that the music is "good". However, what music is "good" is entirely subjective based on one's own opinions.

Why isn't it a good idea to try listening to something that has been recommended to you by a source you are favorably inclined towards? It may still end up being something you like. Yes, it's probably not good for you if you just force yourself to listen to things because you think it will make you cool, but it's reasonable to try something from, say, a person who you've already found to have tastes overlapping with yours.

Also, there's the fact that it's nice to share experiences. Thus, I think it makes sense to 'try' to like something that your friends like.

Anyways, I'm not sure if others will agree, but for me personally, sometimes I like to listen to music solely because I know there is someone I like/respect who listens to it; in other words, the reason why I like it is the associative value. This only comes into play in certain situations, but I thought it was worth pointing out that circumstances can cause you to like music the same way it can cause you to like anything else. For example the music my brother listens to is really dumb and terrible but sometimes I actually want to hear it now that he lives in another city.

Finally, I think when people in this thread have been saying they "mean to get into" a group/artist, they are not implying that liking the music is a foregone conclusion. Sometimes it just doesn't stick, and I imagine people accept that.

Quote
I am not sure where to even start with your post. First, I have to wonder if you even like yourself or if you have merely worked hard to construct your likes to appear "sophisticated", "eccentric", or "cool". I wonder where you draw the line between alleged music hobbyists and casual listeners. Are casual listeners people who listen to Top 40 radio or a band that is hugely popular, like the Dave Matthews Band? What makes you so much better than a person who likes music that is popular amongst others? People like what they like; it does not make them bad people. It seems you have a spent a lot of time listening to music; good for you. People who may not listen to these bands likely have other interests, such as athletics, or automobiles, or fashion, etc.; they would likely find YOU and your music obsession uninteresting. It works both ways. Just because someone don't like obscure music does not make them any less interesting, or any more interesting.

I don't think he was putting down casual listeners at all, and I don't think he would disagree with your assertion that they are not bad people, that they likely have other interests, etc. However, that doesn't rule out the legitimacy of his experience or the likelihood that other people may find themselves in the same boat.

Quote
I also don't see how you think you are better at listening to music than the "casual listener" because you have to listen to albums and bands you hate at first multiple times before you like them. Repetition breeds content. The more you listen to crap, the more you will like it (not to necessarily say that you listen to crap, but who knows). This is evident with many of the songs on the Top 40 radio station. Many are not good, yet if you hear them every hour, eventually you may find them sticking in your head (at least until the next "new" sound comes around).

He didn't say it was just repetition. Yes, he referred to the process as requiring a period of time, but I think -- and I don't know if this is indeed what he meant, but in any case it's what I believe -- that the key ingredient is intentionality. Repetition will make things stick in your head, but you might not like it. I get Top 40 songs stuck in my head because sometimes that's all I get to listen to when I'm at work, but that hasn't helped me enjoy that kind of music more.

On the other hand, I can imagine listening to these songs in the future if I want to be reminded of this time in my life.

So, your earlier question was probably rhetorical, but I'm going to give my answer anyway:

Quote
Are casual listeners people who listen to Top 40 radio or a band that is hugely popular, like the Dave Matthews Band?

Ultimately I don't think it's what a person listens to, but how. I had a friend who listens to bands that I see talked about here relatively frequently (my vagueness betrays my ignorance), but she generally just has her music playing on shuffle in the background. I could be wrong, because obviously I don't see what she's doing all the time, but my impression based on how she listens to music when I see her and the way she talks about the music she listens to is that she's a 'casual listener,' someone who just kinda likes the mood it sets when it's playing in the background of whatever she's doing. In other words, she's not really paying attention. And that's fine!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 17 Jan 2010, 11:26
Are casual listeners people who listen to Top 40 radio or a band that is hugely popular, like the Dave Matthews Band? What makes you so much better than a person who likes music that is popular amongst others? People like what they like; it does not make them bad people. It seems you have a spent a lot of time listening to music; good for you. People who may not listen to these bands likely have other interests, such as athletics, or automobiles, or fashion, etc.; they would likely find YOU and your music obsession uninteresting. It works both ways. Just because someone don't like obscure music does not make them any less interesting, or any more interesting.

plenty of people listen to "obscure" bands casually.  plenty of "music hobbyists" only listen to mainstream rock and pop.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Zingoleb on 17 Jan 2010, 17:21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2wud_RqEaM

I don't remember this song but I kind of like it.

Also, Syd Barrett looks like he belongs in Green Day.


Also also, I must say that tricia kidd is right, here.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 17 Jan 2010, 18:34
Um, fuck it.

Yes, a "music hobbyist" might not be intrinsically better as a person than a "casual listener", but if I wanted to find something out about music or cop a recommendation, I know who I'd be going to.

It's like, who am I going to ask for a detailed analysis of the root causes of World War II, someone who has spent a lot of time thinking, researching and analysing the conflict, or a dude who saw Inglorious Basterds twice?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 18 Jan 2010, 00:22
Where do I start with Coil?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 18 Jan 2010, 00:32
Where do I start with Coil?
here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,19792.msg904231.html#msg904231)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Daft pun on 18 Jan 2010, 04:26
Where to start with New Order?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 18 Jan 2010, 06:24
Do the chronological thing
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: rynne on 18 Jan 2010, 07:16
Where to start with New Order?

Substance.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Thrillho on 18 Jan 2010, 08:46
I dunno, I think Singles gives a better overall career trajectory, you even get the few decent tunes from their latter-day era.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: BlahBlah on 18 Jan 2010, 08:57
I prefer Substance, it has the better versions of most tracks.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 18 Jan 2010, 12:13
i like early New Order but at the same time i feel like the only songs you really need to hear by them are "Temptation", "Blue Monday" and "Bizarre Love Triangle".
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: rynne on 18 Jan 2010, 12:38
Plus Substance has the b-side disc which is pretty ace.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 18 Jan 2010, 17:22
Where to start with Gang of Four?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 18 Jan 2010, 17:26
Entertainment!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 18 Jan 2010, 17:43
And maybe Solanki and Bilge Pump after that, if you'd like to hear the way other Leeds bands continued to owe a debt to Gang Of Four.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 18 Jan 2010, 18:05
Entertainment! and Solid Gold are the only two really great albums. They fell off pretty dramatically after that.

Entertainment! is the most essential, but if you like them, you probably want Another Day/Another Dollar as well, if for nothing other than the song "To Hell With Poverty." The Peel Sessions are good, too. The material on them is all from the first few records.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 18 Jan 2010, 18:40
The Peel Sessions are not just good. They are essential listening.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Cernunnos on 18 Jan 2010, 18:56
Yep. They are really good.

Also, I keep hearing about Pere Ubu. A cursory glance at wikipedia tells me that this might be a challenge considering the scope of their discography (they are also from my hometown!). But if anyone can tell me where to start, I'd really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 18 Jan 2010, 21:05
Granted, Gang of Four's Peel Sessions are amazing.

Aww man, Pere Ubu is one of those bands I punked out on. I love the first three albums, but after I heard those my interests shifted and I've yet to hear The Art of Walking or The Tenement Year. You could start chronologically like I did.  The Modern Dance is really, really excellent.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 18 Jan 2010, 21:25
Is that Scott Walker cat worth a listen?

I keep seeing his name tossed around.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 18 Jan 2010, 21:39
I skipped over gang of four and went straight to Minutemen
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: sean on 18 Jan 2010, 21:47
>:c
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 18 Jan 2010, 21:54
Yep. They are really good.

Also, I keep hearing about Pere Ubu. A cursory glance at wikipedia tells me that this might be a challenge considering the scope of their discography (they are also from my hometown!). But if anyone can tell me where to start, I'd really appreciate it.

Dub Housing
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 18 Jan 2010, 23:56
Is that Scott Walker cat worth a listen?

I keep seeing his name tossed around.
Depends on what you mean, since he has two distinct modes - pop singer (early career) and avant garde weirdo (late career).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 19 Jan 2010, 00:22
Depends on what you mean, since he has two distinct modes - pop singer (early career) and avant garde weirdo (late career).

I like pop singers and avant garde weirdos.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Rudi Voller on 19 Jan 2010, 03:53
Also, I keep hearing about Pere Ubu

For Pere Ubu I would suggest the boxset Datapanik in The Year Zero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datapanik_in_Year_Zero) if you can find it, as it collects a number of early Singles and includes the first few albums as well. Covers pretty much all of their best stuff.

I'm going to see Pere Ubu in a month, and I cannot wait. Love that band.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: sean on 19 Jan 2010, 08:38
guys i think jens just hated on gang of four

i vote we burn him at the stake
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 19 Jan 2010, 11:12
I'm going to see Pere Ubu in a month, and I cannot wait. Love that band.

Dave Thomas is hilarious live.  He constantly is in a bad mood, storms off the stage at least once a song, yells at the soundman... it's all very entertaining.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 19 Jan 2010, 12:16
guys i think jens just hated on gang of four

i vote we burn him at the stake

I think maybe he is just saying he likes the Minutemen more?

I know I do.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 19 Jan 2010, 12:24
oh that reminds me, where should i start with the minutemen?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 19 Jan 2010, 12:29
What Makes a Man Start Fires?

Double Nickels on the Dime is good, but too long to be the first thing you hear by them.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JayJayD on 19 Jan 2010, 12:31
Where to start with New Order?
Of the recent albums, Get Ready is my favorite. Avoid Waiting for the Siren's Call!

On a very different note: where do I start with Nadja?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 19 Jan 2010, 12:35
Double Nickels on the Dime is good, but too long to be the first thing you hear by them.

that's where I started
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 19 Jan 2010, 12:48
I like pop singers and avant garde weirdos.

In that case, for his earlier solo material go with Scott. It has several of the famous Jacques Brel songs as well as the incredible Montague Terrace (In Blue). For his more experimental work I'd suggest you go straight for The Drift. Can't help you with his pre-solo work with The Walker Brothers, they never did anything for me. I liked him a lot better after he'd gone weird and started doing songs with titles like The Old Man's Back Again (Dedicated To The Neo-Stalinist Regime).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 19 Jan 2010, 13:12
Double Nickels on the Dime is good, but too long to be the first thing you hear by them.

totally disagree.  that's the "if you only hear one album by this band..." album for them.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 19 Jan 2010, 13:53
I don't think that is really the spirit of this thread though.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 20 Jan 2010, 19:42
In that case, for his earlier solo material go with Scott. It has several of the famous Jacques Brel songs as well as the incredible Montague Terrace (In Blue). For his more experimental work I'd suggest you go straight for The Drift. Can't help you with his pre-solo work with The Walker Brothers, they never did anything for me. I liked him a lot better after he'd gone weird and started doing songs with titles like The Old Man's Back Again (Dedicated To The Neo-Stalinist Regime).

Cheers!

And another one,(although this is really more of a 'where to continue') the Mountain Goats?
I loved The Sunset Tree but found Get Lonely pretty dull.
What else is good?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 20 Jan 2010, 19:43
Is Introducing the Minutemen any good? Or should I I really get ahold of What Makes a Man Start Fires?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 20 Jan 2010, 19:51
Double Nickels on the Dime
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: DarkAvenger on 20 Jan 2010, 19:55
For the Mountain Goats I'd definitely recommend All Hail West Texas next. It kind of has a similar feel to The Sunset Tree, in my opinion. After that if you want to go with his higher fidelity work try Tallahassee, and then Heretic Pride. If you like the lower quality boombox recordings of All Hail West Texas more try The Coroner's Gambit
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 20 Jan 2010, 19:59
I didn't even know Introducing the Minutemen existed! I guess that's the idea behind it, isn't it? I still think What Makes a Man is a better start than Double Nickels.

As far as The Mountain Goats goes, when you say you're trying to figure out where to continue from The Sunset Tree and Get Lonely, do you mean those are the only two records you've heard? If that's the case and you like TMG as a band with a fuller sound, you could go for Tallahassee or Heretic Pride. The latter is more or less all about or from the perspective of the same two characters, while Heretic Pride is more diverse.  If you want to start getting into TMG's earlier, more sparse stuff, listen to All Hail West Texas.

Edit: beaten to it, but I spent the time typing so I'm gonna post anyway
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Christophe on 20 Jan 2010, 21:56
Guys, The Ex.

Where do I start with The Ex.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: sean on 20 Jan 2010, 22:27
just give up dude
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 21 Jan 2010, 05:04
James Brown
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 21 Jan 2010, 05:54
Is that Scott Walker cat worth a listen?

I keep seeing his name tossed around.

Get Scott 4 (chamber pop) and Tilt (avant-garde).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Phaedra on 23 Jan 2010, 18:04
Where should I start with indie pop & electronic music from the last two years? I have been really out of the loop.

(I'm not trolling, honest)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: sean on 23 Jan 2010, 18:06
you start by finding a better genre of music to listen to.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 23 Jan 2010, 18:19
Where should I start with indie pop & electronic music from the last two years? I have been really out of the loop.

(I'm not trolling, honest)
Last 2 years? I don't know, depends on what sort of electronic music you're talking about here. Crystal Castles was in 2008 I think, that was popular. More recently Passion Pit have gained a lot of attention for being the new MGMT and Fuck Buttons made industrial music that people liked. MIA is also popular. There's also some good stuff out of Australia - Midnight Juggernaughts, Cut Copy, etc.

Those are the indie electronic acts that I can think of off the top of my head for the last two years. More generally with electronic music dubstep and its substrains have been really taking off, but they don't suck Daft Punk's dick enough to be enjoyed by indie boys.

Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 23 Jan 2010, 18:38
Where should I start with indie pop & electronic music from the last two years? I have been really out of the loop.

(I'm not trolling, honest)

what, you mean like Ladytron?  their most recent album is fucking fantastic.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 23 Jan 2010, 19:20
oh my shit yes
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 23 Jan 2010, 19:26
What Makes a Man Start Fires?
Double Nickels on the Dime is good, but too long to be the first thing you hear by them.

going to have to trust my new buddy alex here, sorry any people with differing opinions!
(i'lll give it a listen when i am a bit less angsty about life)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 23 Jan 2010, 19:33
Where should I start with indie pop & electronic music from the last two years? I have been really out of the loop.

(I'm not trolling, honest)

Klaxons and Shit Disco.



Take E first.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 23 Jan 2010, 23:44
Where should I start with indie pop & electronic music from the last two years? I have been really out of the loop.

(I'm not trolling, honest)

Just skimming my itunes here

Apparat, Bears in Heaven, Battles, Camera Obscura, Burning Hearts, Ellen Allien, Flairs, Imogen Heap, Handsomeboy Technique*, Jens Lekman, Pyramiddd, Press On Randy, SomethingALaMode, Tegan and Sara

*Her music is actually really hard to find so I would be willing to send an album for you to download

Edit: wait last two years? That would knock Apparat and Handsomeboy out
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 24 Jan 2010, 03:24
James Brown

I'm serious guys someone tell me what is the best James Brown release to get first. I know all the singles and famous tunes and whatnot but I really have  no idea about records.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Kai on 24 Jan 2010, 07:43
for James Brown, I'd recommend you start with The Payback]/i].
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: nufan on 24 Jan 2010, 09:02
I was also going to recommend this, but James Brown doesn't strike me as an album guy: he's mainly a singles kinda guy. I know you said you had most of them, but there's the fantastic singles retrospective by Hip-O Select which is also available on Spotify if you can get that.
Edit: or rather, 6 and 7 are, but they're both great.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 24 Jan 2010, 16:48
Where should I start with indie pop & electronic music from the last two years? I have been really out of the loop.

(I'm not trolling, honest)

Just skimming my itunes here

Apparat, Bears in Heaven, Battles, Camera Obscura, Burning Hearts, Ellen Allien, Flairs, Imogen Heap, Handsomeboy Technique*, Jens Lekman, Pyramiddd, Press On Randy, SomethingALaMode, Tegan and Sara

*Her music is actually really hard to find so I would be willing to send an album for you to download

Edit: wait last two years? That would knock Apparat and Handsomeboy out
Not Apparat. He collaborated with Modeselektor as Moderat last year. That was a pretty great album.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 24 Jan 2010, 21:53
Fuck Buttons made industrial music that people liked.

I really don't know much about Industrial music at all but really?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 25 Jan 2010, 19:29
"Surf Solar" is basically an early 90's Coil-ish acid house + rave synths. It might be more attributable to the producer (one of the guys from Two Lone Swordsmen)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: E. Spaceman on 25 Jan 2010, 22:09
The best James Brown starter is the movie Rocky IV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PzkxS1OkY
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 03 Feb 2010, 18:38
So I've recently discovered the divine shriekings of Diamanda Galas, and I'd like to try to get into her, but well, the title of this thread. Anybody know enough to help?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 14 Feb 2010, 14:59
Guys, where to start with Kraftwerk?
Or Depeche Mode.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 14 Feb 2010, 15:03
Computer World or Man Machine, probably
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: the_pied_piper on 14 Feb 2010, 16:43
Autobahn
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 14 Feb 2010, 18:29
Computer World or Man Machine, definitely
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 14 Feb 2010, 18:30
I mean Autobahn is fine but Computer Love/Pocket Calculator (from Computer World) and Robots/Neon Lights (from Man Machine) are pretty much the only songs by Kraftwerk I ever listen to anymore.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: the_pied_piper on 14 Feb 2010, 18:59
Well, I suggested Autobahn because it was an earlier fantastic record but you don't listen to TEE?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 14 Feb 2010, 19:01
Not anymore really
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 14 Feb 2010, 19:49
I still listen to autobahn, but the one I mentioned are a bit more bitesized.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 15 Feb 2010, 04:33
Inspired by Our Band Could Be Your Life:

Black Flag?
Fugazi?
Butthole Surfers?
Mudhoney?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 15 Feb 2010, 04:42
With Black Flag I would suggest you start with Damaged. A lot of people would argue that the pre-Rollins stuff is actually better and they may in fact be right, but nevertheless most of the music they made was with Hank Rollins singing so it's pretty imperative that you work out if you dig him. Also it is probably the apex of the "hardcore" stuff they did. After that the sludge/Sabbath influence started to creep in.

I'd argue that with Fugazi it is probably a good idea to go through their discography chronologically, because the band progressed in a very linear fashion from the start of their tenure to the end.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 15 Feb 2010, 06:15
Go chronologically with Mudhoney as well, get Superfuzz Bigmuff Plus Early Singles. It's got Touch Me I'm Sick and their cover of Hate The Police by The Dicks on it.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 15 Feb 2010, 10:28
Butthole Surfers?
Mudhoney?

i actually like every Butthole Surfers album, for vastly different reasons.  their "sellout" album Electriclarryland is actually quite good.  their early stuff is very difficult listening, so listen to Locust Abortion Technician and, if it's too weird for you, try Independent Worm Saloon and the aforementioned one.

all you really need from Mudhoney is Superfuzz Bigmuff.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 16 Feb 2010, 02:27
I dunno, the later tracks with Dez on vocals from The First Four Years are pretty close to the way they sounded with Rollins on Damaged, you can hear how much Henry was influenced by Dez's style. I'm with you on the earlier stuff though tracks like Jealous Again are pretty far removed from the later sound, and if I want to listen to Keith Morris I'll go for Group Sex by the Circle Jerks every time, he was better in that band anyway. I'd go for My War and Slip It In before First Four Years anyway, side two of My War crushes and Slip It In is worth it for the riff in Black Coffee alone.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Thrillho on 16 Feb 2010, 03:47
The best James Brown starter is the movie Rocky IV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PzkxS1OkY

Marry me.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 16 Feb 2010, 04:11
I could probably make one CD of all the songs you really need to hear by Mudhoney, Black Flag and the BH Surfers. There'd be about ten minutes of silence at the end.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 16 Feb 2010, 04:27
Incidentally, the CD would be approximately 12 min and 17 seconds long.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 16 Feb 2010, 06:15
Just for funsies, let's give it a try -

1. Nervous Breakdown (2:07)
2. Fix Me (0:55)
3. I've Had It (1:20)
4. Wasted (0:51)
5. Jealous Again (1:52)
6. Revenge (0:59)
7. No Values (1:45)
8. I've Heard It Before (1:39)
9. Clocked In (1:29)
10. Police Story (1:30)
11. Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie (1:40)
12. My War (3:46)
13. Slip It In (6:17)
14. Black Coffee (4:53)
15. Modern Man (3:11)

16. Touch Me I'm Sick (2:23)
17. Into The Drink (2:08)
18. I Have to Laugh (3:29)
19. Into Your Schtick (3:48)

20. Hey (2:06)
21. Something (4:36)
22. Butthole Surfer (3:02)

51:06 in total.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 16 Feb 2010, 06:28
With hindsight, Mudhoney were a terrific band, they just didn't write many great songs. That's the main reason I recommend March To Fuzz, the second side is mainly covers, which of course sound much better than their own songs on the first side. Especially 'Money Will Roll Right In', 'Fix Me', 'Dehumanized', 'Revolution', 'She's Just 15', 'Pump It Up', 'Editions of You', 'You Give Me The Creeps' etc.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Thrillho on 16 Feb 2010, 06:42
I dunno, I still quite like a lot of Damaged even if you have cut most of it. I think 'Six Pack' is funny as hell if nothing else.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: A Wet Helmet on 16 Feb 2010, 06:54
As someone who has seen Black Flag, Butthole Surfers, and Mudhoney all play live, (obviously not at the same time) y'all are seriously pushing me over the edge of the impeding midlife crisis that has been brewing for awhile.   You write about it in the same way I would write about selecting the best Vanilla Fudge album.  I (stupidly) just did the math on how long it has been since Black Flag broke up and got seriously depressed.   I think I'm going to go pluck grey hair or rant in the blog thread or something.


Sidebar trivia:  Out of the three Butthole Surfer shows I attended, At two of them the band accidentally lit the venue on fire. 
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: onewheelwizzard on 16 Feb 2010, 07:37
On a very different note: where do I start with Nadja?

I'd go with Bodycage.  If you can't get into it you might not want to keep trying.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 16 Feb 2010, 08:18
I dunno, I still quite like a lot of Damaged even if you have cut most of it.

All of it, in fact. I was taking the original versions from the pre-Rollins era.

As someone who has seen Black Flag, Butthole Surfers, and Mudhoney all play live, (obviously not at the same time) y'all are seriously pushing me over the edge of the impeding midlife crisis that has been brewing for awhile.

At the height of their powers, I would definitely see all three of these bands live for sure. All three were pretty much renowned for being a stellar live act. However, I spent a lot of time and money on records by all three and with hindsight I would admit to liking roughly fifty minutes of their music combined. I can't say they were bad bands, I just think there's a lot of better music out there. Unless you're downloading, then I guess it makes no financial difference. However, at the time I was buying said records and now they all sit in my loft unloved.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 16 Feb 2010, 12:49
actually this is where you should start with the Butthole Surfers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcVbf-RXCmY
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 16 Feb 2010, 13:20
Or here (http://www.southern.com/southern/label/TCH/chicagoreader/butthole.html).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 16 Feb 2010, 14:04
Or here (http://www.southern.com/southern/label/TCH/chicagoreader/butthole.html).

punk rock label disputes are hardly anything new.  who founded SST?  oh right, that guy from Black Flag:

"SST's reputation was damaged severely when sound collage group Negativland fought a long legal battle with SST in the wake of its sampling lawsuit over their notorious "cover" of U2's hit "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", on the 1991 U2 single. The case was settled when Ginn and SST agreed to fully release most of Negativland's masters (mainly their Over The Edge series of cassettes) in exchange for completing work on a live album that had been planned long before their legal battles began, as well as keeping Negativland's three SST releases on the label for a short period (the copyright in those has since reverted to Negativland). This entire battle was later the basis for Negativland's 1995 book/CD, Fair Use: The Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2."
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: E. Spaceman on 16 Feb 2010, 14:06
but they were originally recorded before Damaged and without Rollins. You can find these versions on Everything Went Black.

I do wonder which versions specifically tommy means though. IIRC that record has versions with vocals from Dez, Morris and Chavo.


eeeedit: SST and T&G are vastly different cases though. SST had a lot of problems because Greg Ginn was not a very good businessman and the label often had money issues and in many cases did not pay the artists. Touch & Go was run efficiently, it provided greater artistic freedom to its artists and more money to boot.

In these particular cases the following can be gleaned:

SST was a dick to Negativland and they got screwed.
The Butthole Surfers were dicks to T&G and T&G got screwed, then they signed to a major and got screwed.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 16 Feb 2010, 14:20
i don't really see how the Butthole Surfers were being particularly dickish.  the idea of punk rock is owning your own material, isn't it?  why is it so bad that they wanted ownership over their albums, many years after the fact?  it seems like if either party were being dicks, it was both.  Rusk, as a punk rock record owner, should have not held on to the notion that he can indefinitely "own" the work of a band.  that goes against the principles of punk rock.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 10:54
(Police Story and Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie are both featured on Damaged)

The original versions are on Everything Went Black.

punk rock label disputes are hardly anything new.  who founded SST?  oh right, that guy from Black Flag:

SST is and was near enough the worst label in the history of the world in terms of actually paying their artists etc. I'd like to see somebody dispute that. Sub Pop came pretty close though.

However, T&G were and are nothing like either of the above. They were the independent label who did it all right, providing a fair service to their bands and genuinely heroic support. Corey Rusk has always been straight as an arrow in terms of their business and the BH Surfers exploited his kindness in a way which was utterly vile. They deliberately made a point of financially punishing a record label which stood testament to everything great about independent music and a friend who had bankrolled their recorded output when they first started.

Quote from: tricia kidd
the idea of punk rock is owning your own material, isn't it?

Corey Rusk paid for these records to be made entirely. He paid for absolutely everything from recording studio fees, manufacturing and distribution. He remained true to his end of the deal (50/50 split, literally the best one going). The BH Surfers were even free to print up their own version of these records and cut T&G from the deal. Instead they sought financial compensation from a record label which had essentially made them.

Quote from: tricia kidd
that goes against the principles of punk rock.

Yeah right. Show me where that is written. Ripping off the best independent label in the world for the fuck of it. Punk rock!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 17 Feb 2010, 11:54
SST might have had their problems but they aren't even in the same league as a label like Victory, which went beyond dodgy business practices (which were worse than SST's) into out-and-out racism for cash.

I don't see how The Butthole Surfers ripped T&G off exactly. T&G will definitely have made their money back on those records (if they hadn't, I'm sure they would have mentioned that they still needed to recoup costs). Frankly, T&G seems to have acted incredibly stupidly by ignoring the requests by the band's manager to renegotiate the contract. If he really thought the manager was acting without the band's knowledge and trying to find a way to get a cut of their back catalogue money then he was screwing the band over by not calling them up and telling them, instead he appears to have ignored the situation and hoped it would go away. And why shouldn't they be able to change the agreement? Remember, this is after T&G has recouped its costs on the records so by moving away from T&G they aren't costing them money. A handshake deal is done on the basis of trust, but if a band decides they don't trust a label to do the right thing anymore do they just have to live with a label that they feel isn't acting in their interests anymore?

Having said that, I don't think T&G were entirely in the wrong. The band should have made more of an effort to sort things out without lawyers, but I think characterising this as the evil money-grubbing Butthole Surfers robbing poor innocent T&G for no reason is going way too far.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 12:43
I understand someone who is thinking from the perspective of a major record label/big business situation but that's the antithesis of T&G. They were a label based and handshakes and kinship based on a mutual appreciation of independent music. If you can't appreciate why this is so important, I doubt it's ever going to dawn on you. Nobody forced the BH Surfers to agree to a deal with T&G but once they did and used tens of thousands of dollars of the label's money, they were morally obligated to follow through with their end of the deal (again, literally the best deal in the business, with most other labels bands see a fraction of the earnings). Instead they not only reneged on their part, they actually sought financial compensation which put the label in a financial bind for some time and jeopardised its continuing existence.

You can't judge T&G by the standards of mainstream record labels, it's not the same thing at all. That's the point. By involving yourself with T&G, especially during this era, you were presumed to understand this.

Frankly, T&G seems to have acted incredibly stupidly by ignoring the requests by the band's manager to renegotiate the contract. If he really thought the manager was acting without the band's knowledge and trying to find a way to get a cut of their back catalogue money then he was screwing the band over by not calling them up and telling them, instead he appears to have ignored the situation and hoped it would go away.

Again, this is big business thinking. Corey Rusk did a deal with the band, whom he had an existing personal relationship with. There was no manager, no lawyers, no contracts because that was the point of Touch & Go. That's the distinction. You could work with T&G, they would give you literally to this day the fairest, most honest deal going and all you had to do was hold up your end of the deal. Nobody forced you into it, there were hundreds of labels which would happily screw you with contracts and legalese. That wasn't what you got which Touch & Go.

The BH Surfer's "manager" who allegedly contacted T&G shouldn't have been a factor. He wasn't involved with the original deal and indeed, by the standards of every other band on T&G, had a job which was the absolute antithesis of the independent ethos. From Corey Rusk's perspective, he had done a deal with some friends and held up his end of the deal, only to have a complete unknown call him out of the blue years later and try to involve himself. Remember that said "manager" wanted to negotiate a deal for these records with a major so he could have a percentage of the deal. A deal which would give the BH Surfers maybe six or seven percent of the sales, rather than the fifty they were getting with T&G.

And why shouldn't they be able to change the agreement? Remember, this is after T&G has recouped its costs on the records so by moving away from T&G they aren't costing them money.

They did cost them money. They forced T&G pay them some pretty extensive "damages" by invoking the law. The label which funded all of their early records and essentially allowed them to continue functioning as a band. The label which paid for their extensive recording sessions and gave them regular tour support for years. The label which held up their side of the deal entirely.

A handshake deal is done on the basis of trust, but if a band decides they don't trust a label to do the right thing anymore do they just have to live with a label that they feel isn't acting in their interests anymore?

Hahaha, "right thing". Hahahah. Butthole Surfers. Hahaha.

Touch & Go were still advertising these records to the independent market same as they always had. The BH Surfers were fine with this until they signed to a major.

Having said that, I don't think T&G were entirely in the wrong. The band should have made more of an effort to sort things out without lawyers, but I think characterising this as the evil money-grubbing Butthole Surfers robbing poor innocent T&G for no reason is going way too far.

Only if you consider the truth to be offensive. That's exactly what happened. Corey Rusk is one of the most trust-worthy, honest and decent human beings involved in music and always has been. He made a deal with some friends which was by industry standards absolutely the best one going and held up his end. The band in question tried and nearly succeeded in screwing him, his label and by association all the bands who worked with T&G for the fuck of it, essentially out of temporary misplaced greed.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: E. Spaceman on 17 Feb 2010, 13:40
Even when thinking of it in money matters.

Consider that the chain of events was pretty much as follows:

* The BH Surfers agree to a deal with T&G for a 50/50 split of the profits. As tommy points out this is the best deal ever.

* The BH surfers enjoy a fairly long career with T&G, they never really sell many records but they recieve 50% of what is sold and financing for many tours and their recording sessions. On any other label they would have likely just been axed or even if they didn't, they would only be making 8% of their not very large record sales

* The BH Surfers leave T&G for Rough Trade. T&G does not hinder this in any way, which is pretty much industry standard. No royalty adjustement, buying out of contracts or anything else happens. T&G continues to keep their back catalogue in print and the same economic split. Rough Trade essentially fucks over the BH Surfers.

* The BH Surfers sign to Capitol. Nothing much ensues at first, they sell slightly more records than before but recieve far less money for them.

*The BH Surfers demand that they now take 80% of the royalties. T&G understandably refuse. Now here is the crux of the matter. The BH Surfers' only possible motivation for this is money and ego. There is no other reason for it, they have made a couple of bad deals and now they have a manager who takes up a percentage of their income and here are these dudes at T&G taking 50% of their back catalogue even though they did nothing (except support them financially and emotionally, promoting them when they were unknown and keeping their back catalogue in print)

* The BH Surfers sue and win. They are awarded damages. T&G has to destroy all their stock of records and merchandise which means their back catalogue ceases to be in print and when it does go back in print it is done at a much less favourable split than before. T&G suffers an enormous setback in money which affects everyone on their label and other smaller labels who they distribute.

* The BH Surfers score a major hit with Pepper but afterwards fall out with the label over the next album, drop their manager and split with the label.


Tell me who won here other than the lawyers, Capitol and the manager?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 17 Feb 2010, 13:50
The problem is, there are two accounts of what the deal with T&G was. The Butthole Surfers claim that the deal was to make records together as long as that was working whereas T&G says that they had the rights to release the records in perpetuity. You and I might think T&G's efforts to promote the band and the share of the royalties they got were all completely fair and within the spirit of the original agreement, but if by the time the band got dissatisfied T&G had recouped their initial investment I think they've got the right to walk away. That's what I meant by the label not losing money, if T&G had just said "we do 50/50 and we deal with you and not your manager because he had nothing to do with this, but you're free to take the back catalogue elsewhere if you think the fact we helped you out so much in the past and are continuing to do a good job for you means nothing". If the band want to be dicks and fuck themselves financially in the process then I think they have the right to do that, no matter how much I think it's a crappy thing to do and stupid in the bargain.

The problem with fighting it is that it makes verbal agreements more set in stone, and that's a problem if a band finds that they've got a verbal agreement with a label that, unlike T&G, does turn out to be untrustworthy down the line. What if you go with a label like Ebullition that doesn't distro to chains etc because that's in line with your ethics, but later they decide to start selling stuff through Amazon? T&G disputing the right of the band to decide who releases their old records could have meant a band seeing their back catalogue sold in places they did not want and not being able to do anything about it. If T&G had just seen the band walk off with their records for greed but not disputed their right to do it, in much the same way that Green Day screwed Lookout who relied for more extensively on their old records than T&G relied on the Butthole Surfers back catalogue, then I'd probably be slagging them off to. But fighting the band could have had unfortunate repercussions.

The fact that they were wanting to communicate through a manager and acting like a major label band means they were being arseholes, but I don't think that gives T&G the right to essentially force them to continue working with them. Why would you want them anyway? They're a major label band that want to act like rock stars, give them back their records when they ask and concentrate on the bands that are worth it. After all, Girls Against Boys et al aren't going to take the back catalogues from T&G because it's become legally viable by the precedent the Butthole Surfers set. The very point is that they want to work with T&G, if you need lawyers to force them to keep the arrangement going than it's time to walk away.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 14:15
The problem is, there are two accounts of what the deal with T&G was. The Butthole Surfers claim that the deal was to make records together as long as that was working whereas T&G says that they had the rights to release the records in perpetuity.

It was working, that's the thing. It was working fine. It was working better than their subsequent deals with Rough Trade and Capitol. Fifty-fifty split, the records in print and in stores.

You and I might think T&G's efforts to promote the band and the share of the royalties they got were all completely fair and within the spirit of the original agreement, but if by the time the band got dissatisfied T&G had recouped their initial investment I think they've got the right to walk away. That's what I meant by the label not losing money, if T&G had just said "we do 50/50 and we deal with you and not your manager because he had nothing to do with this, but you're free to take the back catalogue elsewhere if you think the fact we helped you out so much in the past and are continuing to do a good job for you means nothing". If the band want to be dicks and fuck themselves financially in the process then I think they have the right to do that, no matter how much I think it's a crappy thing to do and stupid in the bargain.

You're right, they had the option to be incredible dicks about this and they were. They screwed the best independent record label in the world. Big whoop to them. The courts even upheld their "right" to be dishonest pricks. I cannot disagree with this because that is exactly what happened.

The problem with fighting it is that it makes verbal agreements more set in stone, and that's a problem if a band finds that they've got a verbal agreement with a label that, unlike T&G, does turn out to be untrustworthy down the line.

This is absolutely no kind of justification for the behaviour of the BH Surfers though because they were dealing with T&G, a label which is indisputably fair and honest with the bands they deal with. We can hypothesise all day long about the precedent but it doesn't excuse what the BH Surfers did at all.

The fact that they were wanting to communicate through a manager and acting like a major label band means they were being arseholes, but I don't think that gives T&G the right to essentially force them to continue working with them. Why would you want them anyway? They're a major label band that want to act like rock stars, give them back their records when they ask and concentrate on the bands that are worth it. After all, Girls Against Boys et al aren't going to take the back catalogues from T&G because it's become legally viable by the precedent the Butthole Surfers set. The very point is that they want to work with T&G, if you need lawyers to force them to keep the arrangement going than it's time to walk away.

Right, not every band is going to be absolute scumbags over their verbal agreements with T&G because you'd have to be an absolute shitheel to do so. I'm glad we are agreed on this.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 17 Feb 2010, 14:53
the most fascinating part of this is watching Ptommy talk like he is intimate friends with everyone involved.

i've actually met the Butthole Surfers, and a much older friend of mine has worked with them since the early 90s.  by my observations and his stories, they are generally nice guys.

did they get caught up in the major-label, hit-single lifestyle and do something in a non-optimal way?  yes, i think so.  everybody makes mistakes.

as has been stated, greg ginn did far worse things to bands than the Surfers did to Rusk.  so hey Ptommy, try taking your personal grudge against the Surfers and your undying love for Black Flag out of this argument.

when you're dealing with fucked-up punk rockers, who may or may not be mentally stable or on drugs, and label owners who fit the same description, this sort of thing can happen.  to vilify them for it is misguided at best.

from a recent article:

"After seeing much of its heavy hitters—Girls Against Boys, the Jesus Lizard, Butthole Surfers—jump to a major label (not to mention losing an infamous legal wrangle with the Buttholes over album rights in 1999), Touch & Go stretched out, signing hip New York bands like the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and TV on the Radio. Two bands, who, of course, left for a major label."

maybe working with Rusk isn't all roses if all these bands constantly leave his label?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 15:12
What a mess of shit that post is.

the most fascinating part of this is watching Ptommy talk like he is intimate friends with everyone involved.

Where? I've never met Rusk or the BH Surfers. Nothing in any of my above posts suggests otherwise. Regardless, it's irrelevant.

i've actually met the Butthole Surfers, and a much older friend of mine has worked with them since the early 90s.  by my observations and his stories, they are generally nice guys.

Right, the fact that "you" "met" the BH Surfers changes any of this. That completely overrides a band screwing over a label.

as has been stated, greg ginn did far worse things to bands than the Surfers did to Rusk.  so hey Ptommy, try taking your personal grudge against the Surfers and your undying love for Black Flag out of this argument.

Firstly, Greg Ginn is an irrelevance in the above. SST screwed over a lot of people. Neither has any bearing on T&G or the BH Surfers. Also, I already lauded the early records of the BH Surfers, said they were an incredibly live band and also to be honest I have no trouble with them aside from two people. Regardless of what I think, they made the decision to screw over a record label and on this occasion I'm calling a spade a spade. I also didn't mention Black Flag or SST in any of this argument, "you" did. Furthermore, if you actually look through my post history I am frequently critical of Black Flag. I don't listen to their music and frequently tell people not to bother with an overwhelming majority of their discography.

when you're dealing with fucked-up punk rockers, who may or may not be mentally stable or on drugs, and label owners who fit the same description, this sort of thing can happen.  to vilify them for it is misguided at best.

You have no idea about any of the things you talk about at all. I don't know where to begin with any of the above. You are an idiot.

maybe working with Rusk isn't all roses if all these bands constantly leave his label?

Bands leave independent record labels for many different reasons and in 95% of the times they regret doing so. It's always for money reasons. Lots of bands are willing to jeopardise everything for that 5% chance, most seeing it as an experiment. It doesn't bother me in all but a few cases. The BH Surfers going on a major wasn't an issue in itself, it was the much later decision to screw over the label that got them there in the first place which rankles.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 17 Feb 2010, 15:20
guys where should i start with music

it seems like something i would like and i want to try it

i am so tired of audiobooks

so tired
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Sox on 17 Feb 2010, 15:28
Tricia Kidd, where should I start with penis enlargement?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 17 Feb 2010, 15:30
Hahaha, "right thing". Hahahah. Butthole Surfers. Hahaha.

...

Touch & Go were still advertising these records to the independent market same as they always had.

...

Corey Rusk is one of the most trust-worthy, honest and decent human beings involved in music and always has been.

you're right, i don't know where i got the idea that you were holding forth as having some personal knowledge or bias.

also, you're very rude.  who are you to tell me that i have no knowledge of independent record labels and the troubles they often get into?  how would you know if i do or do not have any such knowledge?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: E. Spaceman on 17 Feb 2010, 15:30
guys where should i start with music

it seems like something i would like and i want to try it

i am so tired of audiobooks

so tired


Remain In Light by Talking Heads
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 15:43
you're right, i don't know where i got the idea that you were holding forth as having some personal knowledge or bias.

I know all of the things I have said in this thread to be true from various public sources which are available to anybody who wants to Google it. Ninety percent of the stuff I have referred to in this thread is in the very article I already linked. I trust the people who tell me that Corey Rusk is an incredibly decent man because they are people who I do know and do find to be absolutely reliable as people. The proof is in his label and the thousands of people who have worked with or around him.

I didn't say anything about knowing Rusk or the BH Surfers, nor did I imply it.

also, you're very rude.  who are you to tell me that i have no knowledge of independent record labels and the troubles they often get into?  how would you know if i do or do not have any such knowledge?

I have no idea why you come here. You are not liked or welcome. You have been banned once and are now impersonating a possibly mythical sibling. Your posts distract decent discussions with absolutely baseless idiocy. Nothing you say is interesting, accurate or even entertaining. Your last post in this thread was out and out trolling, contained several absolute fabrications and made no sense in any way, shape or form. You are incapable of articulating your own opinions in a compelling manner, which would not be such a big deal if they weren't laughable in the first place.

I do not like you, I do not like most of your lazy, tossed off opinions which are all too frequently nonsense. You are an unwanted nuisance and I would be completely fine if you disappeared completely. Give it some serious thought.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 17 Feb 2010, 15:50
I have no idea why you come here. You are not liked or welcome. You have been banned once and are now impersonating a possibly mythical sibling.

oh boy, not this again.

i'm not my step-brother.  even if i were, just as many people have said they liked him as have said they didn't.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 15:55
You just have the same appalling taste, near enough identical diction, posting habits and the same sneering antagonistic tone about things you have little to no idea about then.

If you are planning to continue this pathetic masquerade and you want it to be anything other than unpleasant you need to put roughly 500% more thought into your posts.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 17 Feb 2010, 16:04
why are you such an angry person?

also, provide examples of my appalling taste.  really.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 16:17
No, you're genuinely not worth any more of my time.

Shape up or go away.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 17 Feb 2010, 16:24
Shape up or go away.

why should i listen to anything you say?

it's nice to know you won't be responding to anything i post anymore, though.  it's a little hard to take, such bitter negativity!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 17 Feb 2010, 16:45
It was working, that's the thing. It was working fine.

It doesn't matter if anyone else thinks the arrangement was working, the band disagreed and the only opinions that matter when deciding if the arrangement was still working are those of T&G and the Butthole Surfers. Their reasons might have been crap ones but T&G tried to take away their right to make the decision of whether or not the arrangement was still a good one and I just don't think that's right. The Butthole Surfers being greedy and taking money away in the form of damages and destroyed stock doesn't change that. But it does make T&G somewhat culpable in the situation ending up in the nasty mess that it did, even if they weren't to blame as much as the band was and they were just trying to safeguard the future of a very good label. A bad decision rather than anything malicious, but then again the same could be said for what the band did.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 17 Feb 2010, 16:59
Why do these slanging matches always flair up while I'm asleep?

Everyone who's talking about anything relevant to the thread topic, please continue.

Everyone else, please shut the fuck up, although if you want to continue discussing the history of the Butthole Surfers by all means start a thread about that.

Tommy and Tricia, I respect both of you to varying extents but I'm getting sick of you both ripping into each other all the time. This is a big forum and obviously we can't all be friends but we should at least be adult enough to stop baiting each other.

guys where should i start with music

Try Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. I just so happened to pick up a fantastic recording of it by Sviatoslav Richter on the weekend.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: pilsner on 17 Feb 2010, 17:28
Fuck Bach.  His decision to abandon his obligations as organist of St. Boniface's Church in Arnstadt just so he could work with master organist Dieterich Buxtehude in Lübeck was selfish and unprofessional.  He set the mold for greedy self-important musicians.  Every time I hear one of his fugues I vomit in my mouth.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 17 Feb 2010, 17:40
So I've recently discovered the divine shriekings of Diamanda Galas, and I'd like to try to get into her, but well, the title of this thread. Anybody know enough to help?

her most accessible album is the sporting life, so start with that. if that doesn't give you a headache, i will recommend others.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 17:52
Everyone else, please shut the fuck up, although if you want to continue discussing the history of the Butthole Surfers by all means start a thread about that.

A discussion about an important legal precedent which has potentially massive implications across the independent music scene is highly topical for this of all forums. If you really want to be involved, move the discussion to a new thread since you are quite capable of doing so. Otherwise, practise setting an example of being an "adult" by utilising your scroll wheel like everybody else.

Tommy and Tricia, I respect both of you to varying extents but I'm getting sick of you both ripping into each other all the time. This is a big forum and obviously we can't all be friends but we should at least be adult enough to stop baiting each other.

I'll happily discuss anything involving music in a civil manner just as I have been doing for going on seven years here but I'm sorry to say I've reached my limit of tolerating posts like this one (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24363.msg914007.html#msg914007), which contribute nothing except to place us in a situation like we find ourselves in here. I know it's still considered perfectly acceptable to throw shit at me, I'm thoroughly used to being able to rely on absolutely nothing in the way of support from inconsistent, arbitrarily appointed moderators. However, given over half a decade of knowing this, I'm afraid I will be defending myself in any manner I see fit, now and always.

It's this simple for you and him - be civil and I'll be the nicest person you are likely to meet. I'll chat about anything, dawn to dusk. Alas, even I have limits and the practice of people testing them for funsies has grown way, way old.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 17 Feb 2010, 18:22
Tommy I'd happily use my scroll wheel but I received a specific request via PM to step in and do something about this thread. As I'm sure you've noticed I prefer to be a hands-off moderator as much as possible, and I've always felt that when it comes to threads such as this which have gone violently off-topic, suggesting that discussions be taken elsewhere is a much more effective and reasonable approach than deleting and relocating posts myself unilaterally and without consultation. The content of the recent discussion in this thread has, in fact, been much more fascinating than the thread's original topic (even if the manner in which that discussion has been conducted has left something to be desired), but I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between "relevant to the thread" and "relevant to the forum".

If you feel that you are not supported by myself and the other moderators then I apologise for that; the only explanation I can offer is that you seem to have the support of such a great swathe of this forum's population that, to a newcomer or relative outsider here, the odds would already seem heavily stacked in your favour. If you look again at my address to you and tricia kidd you'll see that neither of you is treated more sympathetically than the other, so in this particular instance I don't think you can reasonably justify a relative lack of support. I will not ever act more or less favourably to somebody based solely on the length of time he or she has been active in this forum.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 17 Feb 2010, 19:04
this thread is so funny
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 19:05
Tommy I'd happily use my scroll wheel but I received a specific request via PM to step in and do something about this thread. As I'm sure you've noticed I prefer to be a hands-off moderator as much as possible, and I've always felt that when it comes to threads such as this which have gone violently off-topic, suggesting that discussions be taken elsewhere is a much more effective and reasonable approach than deleting and relocating posts myself unilaterally and without consultation.

In this instance relocating the posts was the better decision rather than extinguishing a reasonable conversation which was being sabotaged by the posts of one person. I know it's the morning for you but there's nothing thoughtful about the phrase "shut the fuck up". Move the discussion, that's far less offensive than telling someone to "shut the fuck up". Give it some thought first or resume your status as a "hands off moderator".

If you feel that you are not supported by myself and the other moderators then I apologise for that; the only explanation I can offer is that you seem to have the support of such a great swathe of this forum's population that, to a newcomer or relative outsider here, the odds would already seem heavily stacked in your favour.

All well and good for you but as per usual, the moderators are "hands off" until I finally get tired of people being snide and ask them to amend their behaviour. Then suddenly the "hands off" moderators show an interest. I would say it's surprising but it ceased to be years ago. I could post ten names right now of people who have tried to make it their business to be as rude and irritating towards me as humanly possible without so much as a word of objection from the "hands off" moderators. Half of them were moderators themselves while it was happening, all but maybe one ended up being good friends with me years down the line. If I didn't know how to handle it, I wouldn't be here right now. Thus, as much as I appreciate you're trying to help, you're not.

If you look again at my address to you and tricia kidd you'll see that neither of you is treated more sympathetically than the other, so in this particular instance I don't think you can reasonably justify a relative lack of support. I will not ever act more or less favourably to somebody based solely on the length of time he or she has been active in this forum.

However, this shouldn't preclude you from isolating who made the conversation antagonistic and then asking them to avoid doing it in the future, if indeed you feel the need to involve yourself for whatever reason. There's a chronology to this and other discussions, it's not difficult to see the point it turned sour. Given the fact that as in the past I'm not going to attack people unless there's persistent, pointed provocation, it's incredibly easy to stay on my good side. However, there's a limit to my patience and since I know I'm never going to get any support from the moderators, it's up to me to deal with it in the manner I deem to be appropriate given the individual situation.

Given the complexity of what is almost certainly a previously banned individual making sporadic posts on the forum through a sibling's account, then I'm afraid that yes, I'd expect to be favoured if the other person is blatantly trolling and I'm trying to have a civil discussion on a subject which is valid, if very off topic. On the day that I start trolling and/or telling people to "shut the fuck up", by all means call me out on it as quickly as you would (in theory) tell someone with one post to do so. I understand that stance completely but that's not what was happening here and if any moderation was required at all, the best course of action would have been to split the thread off and remonstrate the person who is still persistently being an arse through another person's account.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: pilsner on 17 Feb 2010, 19:28
Tommy, I'm not sure whether my opinion is worth anything to you but on the off chance that I command some sort of elder statesman respectability by being one of the older posters, I'd like to suggest that you take a little posting break and come back to this thread in a few hours with perhaps a different perspective.  As far as I can see, Harry has handled this completely reasonably, the discussion while fascinating has nothing to do with the thread topic, and you are allowing yourself to be trolled.  I have started a separate thread to pursue the article that you posted here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24529.0.html), not least because I find the topic pretty interesting myself.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 17 Feb 2010, 19:33
Upon reflection I do regret the phrasing of my original post; in my defence let me say that this was literally the first thing that confronted me when I turned my computer on this morning, having only woken up about half an hour previously.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: I Am Not Amused on 17 Feb 2010, 19:34
Is there any way that we could settle this with baby-oil bikini wrestling? I understand that not everyone (no one?) argument in this conversation is a girl, but I could be bi/gay for this.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 17 Feb 2010, 19:35
and you are allowing yourself to be trolled.

That's exactly my point. I don't expect to be remonstrated for it or indeed, be told to "shut the fuck up".

Beyond that I have no issue until people go out of their way to make one, same as always.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: pilsner on 17 Feb 2010, 19:38
But people tell me to shut the fuck up all the time and they say it with love.

At least I thought... wait... oh... I have to go...
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 18 Feb 2010, 00:18
holy hell what happened to this thread

all i wanted to know was how to get into weird music

god

thanks anna
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 18 Feb 2010, 08:21
god, i wish there was a separate thread for the "some labels don't pay their bands so good" debate.
(oh wait)

okay i'm done pretending to be a mod now.
here is a great diamanda galas song for you, alex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jjCnKvA4IE
<3
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: SWOON! at My Gravitas on 18 Feb 2010, 08:39
So, how 'bout that Colour Haze?  I've technically already started (with their self-titled album), but I am wondering where to go next.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 18 Feb 2010, 10:44
Paging Onewheelwizard and/or dimmukane to this thread...

I'm not super knowledgeable on Colour Haze save for I know I'd like them if I put the time into listening to more of their stuff. At the very least, Los Sounds de Krauts is excellent and really easy to get into, especially if you're into their oeuvre already.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 18 Feb 2010, 13:10
Talking Heads (though I guess Emilio sort of said Remain In Light?)

You have to get the first four albums in order because there's a massive difference between each one which would be hard to accept if you ignore chronology.

The live album The Name of This Band is Talking Heads wouldn't be a bad start actually.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 18 Feb 2010, 13:47
What da ya want outta yr Tom Waits? He's got kind of a lot of records. Before Small Change his voice sounds like a totally different animal than around, say Swordfishtrombones, and by Bone Machine he sounds totally raspy and ragged, but his voice is still big.  The early stuff is all like, piano and strings Americana, occsionally bluesy and jazzy. Blue Valentine amps up the jazz quotient and Heartattack and Vine is a straight up blues record.

Small Change would be an interesting place to start because it's something of a transitional record. You can use it to decide whether you want to explore his earlier, less accomplished records, or move forward chronologically as he explores new sonic territory. I do like his early records: Closing Time, The Heart of Saturday Night and Nighthawks at the Diner. But they're definitely less essential documents of his career. You may only want to listen to them after you've already decided you really like Tom Waits.

Swordfishtrombones and his other, stylistically related mid-period records Rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years, depart somewhat from his earlier style by approaching songwriting in a less rigid manner. The instrumentation branches out a lot too; he introduces more interesting drums, marimbas, glockenspiel, organs, harmonicas; w wider variety of horns, etc. All of the three records from this period are excellent. If you're going to start with this period of his music, you ought start with Swordfishtrombones and go through them in order.

Bone Machine is where he starts to get weird.  His style varies more from album to album after that, so they stand alone more than his earlier albums, which form a clearer progression. For my money, the highlights from this period are Bone Machine and Mule Variations. The rest are all pretty good too, but they're not as close to my heart as those two.

So, tl;dr I'd say start with Swordfishtrombones or Small Change, just know that the two options will lead you to pretty significantly different paths.
Oh and fyi Frank's Wild Years is the one with the theme song from The Wire on it. Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: A Wet Helmet on 18 Feb 2010, 13:52
Blues Music In General (not a band)

Did you download that Rory Gallagher album I posted a couple days ago on the mediafire thread?  Excellent and easy place to start before you start getting into the really hard-core, early stuff.  I'm also a huge fan of Lightnin' Hopkins, (Texas style) and Howlin' Wolf (Chicago style).   Listen to those three guys and you'll have a nice broadstroke introduction to guitar based blues.


Tom Waits

Raindogs is probably my favorite, and then start going backwards chronologically from there for awhile.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 18 Feb 2010, 14:12
i won't dispute anything De_El said, but personally i would start with Bone Machine, because it is simultaneously his most accessible album and his strangest.  it has the most wide range of sounds and is by quite a large margin the one i listen to the most.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 18 Feb 2010, 14:14
I started with Raindogs and never looked back.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 18 Feb 2010, 15:07
You have to get the first four albums in order because there's a massive difference between each one which would be hard to accept if you ignore chronology.

The live album The Name of This Band is Talking Heads wouldn't be a bad start actually.

I don't know if the chronology is that important since the "essential discography" is relatively small. I listened to their first four albums in alternate pairs, I guess you could say. I found More Songs About Buildings and Food at a farmer's market then picked up Remain in Light from a used record store about a month later. Then I got Talking Heads: 77 after that. I never bought Fear of Music and maybe that is why I don't rate it as high as the other three, but it is still great.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 18 Feb 2010, 16:24
Where do I start with Wire?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: DarkAvenger on 18 Feb 2010, 17:15
At the beginning, with Pink Flag. The first three albums are absolutely stellar.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 19 Feb 2010, 00:49
Soul Music In General (not a band)

Sam Cooke, for sure. The Portrait of a Legend 1951-1964 comp should suffice as a good introduction.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 19 Feb 2010, 03:56
Where do I start with Wire?

Yeah, first three records in order and then feel free to stop there.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: E. Spaceman on 19 Feb 2010, 13:14
Yeah with Talking Heads start at the beginning. Remain in Light is in my opinion the best one but it is not exactly representative of their career, indeed the first four album are markedly different and they only really settled on a sound after Speaking iN Tongues, which is the last one you SHOULD get.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: onewheelwizzard on 19 Feb 2010, 14:04
So, how 'bout that Colour Haze?  I've technically already started (with their self-titled album), but I am wondering where to go next.

Ewige Blumenkraft is the next one you should listen to, it's absolutely essential.  Los Sounds De Krauts is also pretty much too good to pass on under any circumstances.  After that, it kinda depends which direction you want to go in.  Listen to Tempel and All if you want to hear their more recent, more polished work.  Listen to CO2 and Seven to get a sense for the grittier, earlier sound.  If you want to see their trippiest side, listen to PeriscopeChopping Machine is not really that great but it's worth a listen if you like everything else so much that you just have to listen to everything they've put out (which is pretty likely, they're an absolutely superb band).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 21 Feb 2010, 19:32
So not so much "where to start" but "where to next": Elvis Costello.

I have the My Aim is True, This Year's Model, Armed Forces, Imperial Bedroom and  Secret, Profane and Sugarcane but I've basically no idea about the varying quality- and tone- of his discography through the 80s and 90s
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 22 Feb 2010, 00:48
Blood & Chocolate is probably his third best record after the first two.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: E. Spaceman on 22 Feb 2010, 09:04
I actually quite like "Mighty Like A Rose"
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: nufan on 22 Feb 2010, 12:19
Blues Music In General (not a band)

Well hey look at that I can actually be of help in this thread.

Like any genre, blues has many different strands and aspects, and I guess it's all about finding what you like and don't like. I, for example, have never really been bothered by the 12-bar blues style and prefer the early delta records, open-stringed tuning stuff. So, for example I love these fellows:
Skip James (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv-_mzVBSF8)
Bukka White (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRQqEAbkCAU)
Reverend Gary Davis (song starts at about 2:10 and is the best thing you will ever see ever) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_90D1RzApts)
Blind Willie Johnson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9MLrjSR4f8)
I recently found out about Washington Phillips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HIoSLkQ64), who played this bizarre instrument that sounds like nothing I've ever heard and is brilliant.

Also many others such as Son House, Blind Willie McTell, Fred McDowell, Robert Johnson, Lonnie Johnson, Charley Patton, Elmore James etc etc. If you're not into that, you might be into stuff like Muddy Waters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V25iA2XPzuA) and the electric blues thing. Also check out Taj Mahal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHHxMNkMl4) who is awesome pretty much whatever he does.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 22 Feb 2010, 12:55
honestly my favorite blues musician is Lightnin' Hopkins.  i can't recommend him enough.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: onewheelwizzard on 22 Feb 2010, 13:22
I'm going to second Mississippi Fred McDowell.  Amazing stuff.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 23 Feb 2010, 04:04
OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 23 Feb 2010, 04:57
OMD's first albums until Dazzle Ships. After that, you only get Sugar Tax from the same band and that's it.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Thrillho on 23 Feb 2010, 07:17
OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?

That really depends on how you look at it.

If you want to change artists I can't really help you much

But if you want to expand your catalogues of those artists - from Echo And The Bunnymen you need Ocean Rain. I have no greater knowledge of their catalogue other than that is an awesome record. I do know Joy Division, though, and you need both of their studio albums, Unknown Pleasures and Closer. Luckily having those two compilations doesn't ruin the albums for. Substance in particular mops up a lot of the useful stuff from singles and EPs that's not on the albums.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 23 Feb 2010, 08:07
OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?

uhhh B-52s?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 23 Feb 2010, 13:45
OK guys I know this isn't a specific band but something just clicked and as of an hour ago I'm really into new wave. I have Joy Division - Substance and Permanent, Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair, and Echo & the Bunnymen -Heaven Up Here. What else do I need?

The Chameleons
The Church
The Wedding Present
The Damned
That Petrol Emotion
The Smiths
A Certain Ratio
Wall of Voodoo's "demo" album
everything XTC recorded pre-1983

for starters.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 23 Feb 2010, 14:52
I've never really been able to work out where the borders of new wave are, but I'm gonna suggest Blondie and Sparks, mainly because I can.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 23 Feb 2010, 15:53
are Devo new wave?

I'm not really sure what new wave is, but I am sure that Devo kicks ass.



I GOT A GUT

FEELING
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 23 Feb 2010, 16:35
Thanks guys, this list will keep me occupied for a while!

The Wedding Present
Seamonsters.

this is so good
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 23 Feb 2010, 19:20
here are some underrated post-punk-type bands!

-delta 5
-esg
-scritti politti (that one is kinda borderline i guess. early = poppy post punk. cupid and psyche '85 = new wave-y stuff!)
-liquid liquid
-konk

okay i'm done, back over to tommy. 
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 23 Feb 2010, 19:40
Blues Music In General (not a band)

(http://www.bangitout.com/uploads/22blind-man.jpg)

(http://www.bonappetit.com/images/tips_tools_ingredients/ingredients/ttar_lemon_v.jpg)

(http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/beacon/fall06images/22-jefferson-bible/jefferson.jpg)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 26 Feb 2010, 06:48
I have a question about the Rolling Stones. It is not really so much "where to start" as "how do I navigate through their early years most efficiently"? Their early discography (1964-67 I guess) is a jumble of US and UK releases that I don't really want to wade through blindly. Does it even make much of a different which versions I get?

Also, is it worth it to grab a singles compilation or two?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 27 Feb 2010, 20:00
Tommy where should I start with Silkworm?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: 20 jazz funk greats on 28 Feb 2010, 11:13
yo, i'm not tommy, but he told me to try libertine if i like rougher stuff, and italian platinum if i like it smooooooth, hurrr hurr.

i love libertine. i don't think i ever got into italian platinum.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Tom on 28 Feb 2010, 11:55
Were should I start with Bob Dylan and others of the (electric) folk persuasion? I've been listening to On The Beach and the rest of Neil Young's Ditch trilogy and digging it immensely.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: nufan on 28 Feb 2010, 14:17
Were should I start with Bob Dylan and others of the (electric) folk persuasion? I've been listening to On The Beach and the rest of Neil Young's Ditch trilogy and digging it immensely.

Stick a random pin in any of Dylan's 60's output and you've got a winner. Like Young in the 70's Dylan pretty much could do no wrong for near an entire decade all the while exploring new options with each album. For his one-man folk stuff Freewheelin' is probably the best bet, for his electric phase I'd go with Highway 65 Revisited, but I'm serious when I say get pretty much everything from that period.

Actually now I think of it, your best bet is probably Bringing It All Back Home, as it has 50% folk (the second half) and 50% electric rock (the first half) and also contains Subterranean Homesick Blues which is worth the money all by itself, and also has the finest lyrics of any album I know of. Blood On The Tracks is also one of the best albums of all time and pretty much a must (yes I'm a bit of a Dylanphile).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: kwami42 on 01 Mar 2010, 01:19
I don't know anything about Jazz outside of Miles Davis, any suggestions on where to go?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 01 Mar 2010, 01:28
Do you know what type of jazz you prefer? Big band? Small group? Dixieland? Swing? Bop? Fusion?

Hahaha, no, I'm kidding, nobody prefers fusion.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: kwami42 on 01 Mar 2010, 01:34
Well, I like all the Miles Davis I have (Kind of Blue, Birth of the Cool, Bitches Brew) so stuff like that is good I guess.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 01 Mar 2010, 01:35
Actually, have a listen to all of these, tell me which you like best, and we can go from there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86bO53-gpFs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86bO53-gpFs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqmgVOc-K1Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqmgVOc-K1Q)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeqwPX4T4E0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeqwPX4T4E0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4CVz1TXUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4CVz1TXUg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q-ePYiCJYM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q-ePYiCJYM)

I only really go up to the 50s as far as jazz is concerned. After that you'll have to get someone else to help you out.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: kwami42 on 01 Mar 2010, 01:43
I like the 4th and 5th ones the most out of those.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 01 Mar 2010, 01:44
Oh, listen to this too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acT3XJHrMlU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acT3XJHrMlU)

I'm just about to head out for a few hours but I'll get back to you.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: kwami42 on 01 Mar 2010, 01:58
That last one was pretty good too.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 01 Mar 2010, 05:38
Okay so basically it seems like you're digging the modern jazz, which is fair enough. Seeing as how you already like Miles Davis I'd suggest you get a recording of Charlie Parker's Dial recordings. Just get the master takes, there's no need to go crazy and get all the alternates and false starts and what have you that are floating around. You'll notice that there are a lot of different editions of these recordings available: they're all the same, but because the original recordings were made over 50 years ago they're out of copyright now, which means a lot of different record companies are reissuing them. Anyway, Charlie Parker's quintet at the time he recorded on Dial included a very young Miles Davis.

Seeing as how you liked the Gerry Mulligan, I'd also suggest you give the Birth of the Cool album a listen: this was a band that included Mulligan and, again, Davis. It's quite different but very beautiful. There was an edition released several years ago called the Complete Birth of the Cool, which includes a bunch of live recordings which, though enjoyable, aren't essential: it's the cuts on the original album that are the good stuff. (There was also an album released by Mulligan late in his life called the Rebirth of the Cool, so don't get confused.) The Gerry Mulligan/Chet Baker quartet was one of the most famous groups in jazz history, so check out the original recordings by them (there's also a "reunion" album available which, while good, isn't a patch on the group's original recordings).

That Clifford Brown/Max Roach tune I posted was composed by Bud Powell, who was the major pianist of the early bop years (just as Charlie Parker was the most significant saxophonist for that style, Dizzy Gillespie the most important trumpeter, etc). There's a series of great compilations called, collectively, the Amazing Bud Powell - volume 1 is the best one to get. The Clifford Brown/Max Roach quintet is also well worth exploring further - active in the 50s, they weren't pure bop but a variant follow-up style called hard bop, which mainly differed by having a more hard-driving sound with some gospel influences creeping in. If you like classic bop you're almost certain to like hard bop. For the Brown/Roach group start with the self-titled album (it has a distinctive orange and blue cover). Blue Note was the label of choice for that style and there are literally hundreds of Blue Note albums from the late 50s and early 60s which can be classified as "hard bop", but some of the classics to check out are the Sidewinder by Lee Morgan, Una Mas by Kenny Dorham, and Page One by Joe Henderson.

Finally, a couple of great albums and personal favourites from this era which should be in any collection: Mingus Ah Um by Charles Mingus, and on a completely different note Waltz for Debby by the Bill Evans trio (you may have come across Evans playing piano on Miles Davis's Kind of Blue).

Beyond all that, you'll find that jazz is a pretty incestuous genre, so I'd recommend finding a musician you like (Davis, as we've seen, is an excellent example), reading about them and finding out who they worked with, and seeing where that leads you. It's how I got into jazz years ago when I really didn't know what I was talking about.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: kwami42 on 01 Mar 2010, 05:39
Damn, thanks man, I appreciate it  :-D
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 01 Mar 2010, 06:12
You're welcome!

Oh and also, check out the several albums recorded by the (first) Miles Davis Quintet, in the 50s. It was one of the unquestionably great jazz groups. Start with 'Round About Midnight and if you like that pick up Relaxin' and Cookin'.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 01 Mar 2010, 07:15
The Jesus Lizard.

Please keep in mind that I am somewhat of a pussy and don't want my ears completely shredded to pieces.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 01 Mar 2010, 09:38
Does The Jesus Lizard sound ear shredding to you? I mean I know they're called "noise-rock" but I never thought they were actually that harsh on the ears. Anyway, The Jesus Lizard, like many bands, started really strong and stayed solidly good, but their later work is perhaps slightly less consistently amazing than the first 2 or 3 albums.  Start with Head, and if you like that, reward yourself with Goat. Be sure to get Liar and the first EP, Pure, but beyond that only bother if you're in love.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JayJayD on 01 Mar 2010, 12:14
Well, I like all the Miles Davis I have (Kind of Blue, Birth of the Cool, Bitches Brew) so stuff like that is good I guess.
Get some Herbie Hancock from the 60s, esp. Maiden Voyage.
And John Coltrane's Crescent.
For stuff like Bitches Brew: Weather Report.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 01 Mar 2010, 16:10
Does The Jesus Lizard sound ear shredding to you? I mean I know they're called "noise-rock" but I never thought they were actually that harsh on the ears.

I've never actually heard anything by them so it seems I built them up in my mind.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: tricia kidd on 02 Mar 2010, 20:51
i'd skip The Jesus Lizard entirely and go straight to the Rapeman album (i think it is still in the mediafire thread).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Mar 2010, 04:08
Beyond all that, you'll find that jazz is a pretty incestuous genre, so I'd recommend finding a musician you like (Davis, as we've seen, is an excellent example), reading about them and finding out who they worked with, and seeing where that leads you. It's how I got into jazz years ago when I really didn't know what I was talking about.

This. John Coltrane was in Davis' band for some time and he went on to have a successful career of his own, making wonderful albums. The obvious one is A Love Supreme but I'm fond of Blue Train. (Although I always thought it should be called Blue 'Trane.)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 03 Mar 2010, 05:13
Guys, where do I start with Why?

I need to know them (him?) pretty well by two weeks time.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 03 Mar 2010, 05:45
Are you going to see them live? If that is the case and you want to be familiar with the songs they will most likely play you should grab Eskimo Snow (the latest), Alopecia (my favourite), and Elephant Eyelash (the album where Why? became a band and integrated more non-hip-hop elements). If you find you like those and seeing them live has converted you into a big fan, go back and visit the earlier albums where it was just Yoni.

If you want to dig a littler deeper, you could grab the Hymie's Basement album which is a collaboration between Yoni and Fog. You might also like the band Hood, who are awesome in their own right but also relevant to this post because collaborated with Why? (and Doseone) on their 2001 album Cold House.

I feel like I should elaborate about Eskimo Snow. Even though that is the album most of the live material will come from, I probably wouldn't start with that album. It is a bit of a headscratcher for anyone who has read anything about Why? because it is pretty much not a hip hop album at all. Maybe in spirit, if you will allow me to say such a silly thing. I would get Alopecia and Elephant Eyelash which are closer to what most people think of when they think Why?. Let those two really sink in and then move on to Eskimo Snow which is a surprising and rewarding album.

The most important piece of advice I can give you is pay attention to the lyrics. Yoni Wolf is a truly brilliant lyricist. I think every single Why? song has at least a few gems in it. Some of them, like "Good Friday", are basically 100% gems. Listening to the albums on headphones is probably a good idea. There is a lot going on in these songs and I am a pretty big fan of paying attention to the small details.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 03 Mar 2010, 06:15
The reason I need to know about them is because the station's head of music has signed me up with an interview for Yoni on the 18th and I have absolutely no idea what to ask him, nor do I know them at all except in a 'oh yeah, I've heard of these guys' kind of way.

I've so far listened to Elephant Eyelash and enjoy it. Eskimo Snow is catching my interest a lot more though, so I'll give that a couple more spins.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 03 Mar 2010, 06:36
I won't deny that Why? has some serious songwriting talent, but jesus does his voice grate. All of Seattle pretty much disagrees with me, though.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 03 Mar 2010, 07:06
ask him about Hymie's Basement
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Christophe on 06 Mar 2010, 13:18
hey guys what is a good starting point for Cheap Trick
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 09 Mar 2010, 19:06
So, I like Cap'n Jazz, American Football and Owls. What should I get by Joan of Arc, Make Believe and Owen? Should I get anything by Sky Corvair? I know that people love the shit out of Ghosts and Vodka and that I should listen to them, though I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Essentially: Help me navigate the dense catalog of Los Bros. Kinsella and their associates plz.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 09 Mar 2010, 19:11
Get all the Make Believe records in order. The very first self titled EP is the best thing they did. The three LPs are all good too. I miss this band and I hope they come back one day.

Owen's discography is decent but I'd start with the American Football album first.

If you really must try JOA, might as well give Joan of Arc, Dick Cheney, Mark Twain a shot.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KickThatBathProf on 09 Mar 2010, 19:23
For Ghosts and Vodka you should probablly start with Addicts and Drunks because it is the best
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 09 Mar 2010, 19:35
It is also their complete discography.

Also, if you like Ghosts and Vodka, you might like the band Pele.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 09 Mar 2010, 19:47
I've already got the American Football LP! So should I just not bother with Owen?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 09 Mar 2010, 19:54
You should. It is good music to put on when you are trying to get someone to make out with you. Unless they listen to the lyrics.

Personally I would grab No Good For No One Now first. If you like that you will probably like any of his other records.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 11 Mar 2010, 08:36
Sparklehorse?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 11 Mar 2010, 11:07
I'd go chronologically.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 11 Mar 2010, 15:35
Sparklehorse?

Dreamt for Light Years in the Belly of a Mountain.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: nufan on 12 Mar 2010, 12:33
Sun Ra? I've got and love Space Is The Place to a ridiculous amount but don't really no where to go next.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Catacombs on 14 Mar 2010, 20:48
Ok, so can anyone tell me where to start with Elliott Smith?  I've heard so many good things, and I feel like his music is something I'd like.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 14 Mar 2010, 21:34
I am no expert but I started with Figure 8 and was pretty hooked.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Christophe on 23 Mar 2010, 09:34
XO and Either/Or are also particularly good.

Guys, The Melvins.

Tell me where to start with The Melvins.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: a pack of wolves on 23 Mar 2010, 13:45
Depends what you want. Bullhead's where to go for their sludge side, but you might find the Atlantic period of Houdini, Stoner Witch or even the post-Big Business team-up work like (A) Senile Animal and Nude With Boots more accessible.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: iamiam on 04 Apr 2010, 10:30
Beck.

i listened to 'one foot in the grave' because i have a boner for calvin johnson.  it was great.  but uh... now what? where do i go from here?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 14 Apr 2010, 21:12
Where should I start with Meshuggah?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: SWOON! at My Gravitas on 14 Apr 2010, 21:24
Obzen's as good a place to start as any

Either that or Chaosphere
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 16 Apr 2010, 19:19
Thanks
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 17 Apr 2010, 01:14
Beck.

i listened to 'one foot in the grave' because i have a boner for calvin johnson.  it was great.  but uh... now what? where do i go from here?

Guero is my favorite, but I think most people would say Odelay is his best?

Sea Change might be the most like one foot in the grave.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Tom on 17 Apr 2010, 14:22
From there you could go The Information --> Guero --> Odelay --> Mellow Gold. Midnight Vultures, Muations and a lot of the weird odd and ends have some good songs but they're not essential imo. Beck's last album was pretty cool, you could listen to that before The Information.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 25 May 2010, 22:37
Where should I start with Eluvium?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 25 May 2010, 23:24
Copia.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: scarred on 15 Jun 2010, 23:20
ok so i really want to download that new Devo album but i have never gotten into Devo and i feel like i should listen to some of their older stuff first. what should i steal from the internet?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 15 Jun 2010, 23:23
Q:We Are Not Men? A: We Are Devo! or Freedom of Choice
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Joseph on 16 Jun 2010, 01:08
The first three proper records, Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!, Duty Now for the Future and Duty Now for the Future. Are incredibly strong. The compilation of early demos and recordings, Hardcore Devo, is also pretty well essential.

Another fun thing is watching videos of the band performing and giving interviews on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cadA5iANN2o
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 16 Jun 2010, 01:25
The compilation Devo's Greatest Hits is what really got me into them way back in the day.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: ImRonBurgundy? on 27 Jun 2010, 00:00
The first three proper records, Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!, Duty Now for the Future and Duty Now for the Future. Are incredibly strong. The compilation of early demos and recordings, Hardcore Devo, is also pretty well essential.

Another fun thing is watching videos of the band performing and giving interviews on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cadA5iANN2o

I'd also recommend their first EP, Be Stiff, if only for "Social Fools (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hlh85EgEp4)" and the title track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Owtc4bJuaY).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 28 Jun 2010, 08:15
Where should I start with Prince?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: SWOON! at My Gravitas on 01 Aug 2010, 19:04
I know there's at least one person here who's a big Cradle of Filth fan.  Is there any good place in particular to start with them?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Damnable Fiend on 01 Aug 2010, 19:28
V Empire.  a lot of people would say you don't need anything by them other than that.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 02 Aug 2010, 11:03
I couldn't say how I'd feel about it now, but when I was into Cradle of Filth, Dusk...And Her Embrace was my favorite.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: BeoPuppy on 02 Aug 2010, 13:35
I know there's at least one person here who's a big Cradle of Filth fan.  Is there any good place in particular to start with them?

I always considered Midian their most accesible album. Older albums are more ... black metal, a bit rawer, maybe, and newer ones are more polished. Still metal, but Midian is the point where true black metal fans started shouting about selling-out and not being kvlt and not being true.

So, start with Midian and think about which way you want to go!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JimmyJazz on 02 Aug 2010, 13:54
Where should I start with Prince?

I'd say Purple Rain or Dirty Mind, though his compilation album The Hits is loaded with awesome songs and is probably the best place to start for a new Prince fan.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Trynant on 08 Aug 2010, 09:01
Is this thread exclusive to starting with bands, or can I ask where to start with bands that record in a format ideal for vinyl/analog? So far I've got Bottomless Pit and Black Keys....
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 09 Aug 2010, 08:19
Shellac sound incredible on vinyl.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 09 Aug 2010, 12:30
Jay Reatard sounds much, much better on vinyl than CD.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 09 Aug 2010, 12:44
Seconded
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Cire27 on 09 Aug 2010, 14:35
While, technically, I have already started with Neil Young by way of Harvest, but I don't really know where to go from there.  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Cernunnos on 09 Aug 2010, 14:39
Everybody Knows this is Nowhere was my starting point. It's a good one, too. But I imagine in a second here Tommy or Johnny or somebody like that is gonna jump on this with a far more detailed response to your query.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Christophe on 09 Aug 2010, 15:17
(http://images.hugi.is/gulloldin/149939.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jkmNT4HFGnI/SboTO-1JdsI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/roQvsK3Ze9A/s400/onthebeach.jpg)

(http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/wp-content/uploads/neil-young-trans.jpg)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 09 Aug 2010, 17:11
Chris don't be a dick

(I second Everybody Knows This is Nowhere, holy crap)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Christophe on 09 Aug 2010, 17:21
welp my work here is done

(http://www.wnew.com/images/2008/07/15/thewho_8.jpg)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Ptommydski on 11 Aug 2010, 05:47
Everybody Knows this is Nowhere was my starting point. It's a good one, too.

That's a good one to start with. Harvest is an unfocused, borderline uncharacteristic record but if you liked at least some of it, then you're probably going to enjoy his better records a lot more. Skip the self-titled debut, you can come back to that later. If you preferred the rockers - his first record with Crazy Horse is Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere, essentially a two guitar blow out. If you preferred the folk/country songs, there's another weird mess of a record called After The Goldrush which is actually really great. I think you really have to hear these three records before you embark on The Ditch Trilogy, which is indisputably his best material.

The Ditch Trilogy refers to Neil's wilderness years after the accidental success of Harvest. He was booked to play a worldwide stadium/arena tour and was basically expected to reprise the Harvest material. Instead, Neil being Neil, he more or less entirely played new material he had written after Nashville or indeed, was writing whilst on tour. The combination of his distaste for large arena style shows, constant financial and creative disputes with his own touring band, guilt from the death of Crazy Horse guitarist Danny Whitten and persistent alcoholism made the tour a living hell, captured aptly on the sadly deleted but widely-bootlegged live album Time Fades Away, which features no songs from his previous studio records. This one might take a while to click but it's worth hearing before moving on to Tonight's The Night, which is rightfully described as "a drunken Irish wake of a record". Dedicated to the memory of Whitten and former roadie Bruce Berry, both of whom had died of drug overdoses, Young lead his band through a series of dark, deeply personal songs. Essentially recorded live from the floor, Tonight's The Night is a unique record in the sense that it was more or less improvised on the spot and indeed, the performers were also rolling drunk throughout. Regardless, it's a dour masterpiece of raw, undiluted mourning.

Understandably wary of releasing the difficult, inebriated Tonight's The Night, Young's record company delayed the release until after the superb On The Beach, which is for me his career highlight. Alternately rocking and downbeat, it was the first time Young had found the perfect compromise between the two sides of his music. Side One is relatively upbeat (defiant but also scathing and sarcastic) but Side Two is an absolute bummer, featuring several folky ruminations on the trappings of fame, the demise of Young's second marriage to actress Carrie Snodgrass and the general disillusionment felt by the inhabitants of the West Coast in the wake of the demise of sixties idealism, replaced by a collective hangover of apathy, distrust and guilt. Clearly on a roll, Young reunited Crazy Horse and cut the equally brilliant Zuma, a guitar heavy cousin of Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere with the naked emotional exposure of the preceding Ditch Trilogy. The following records are decent but in truth, Young never really managed to scale the same peaks of creative brilliance ever again. American Stars N Bars, Comes A Time, Rust Never Sleeps and Hawks & Doves have their moments, some people make an impassioned defence of the bizarre Trans but overall, I don't ever listen to anything post eighties.

Incidentally, Neil was also the subject of one of the best books ever written about rock music - the biography Shakey. That's the best buy you could make if you're looking to get into Neil.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 11 Sep 2010, 13:27
Guys, guys.
Sonic Youth.
I only heard "Kool Thing" And "Teen Age Riot". I liked both.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 11 Sep 2010, 17:49
I really like their most recent album The Eternal. It's pretty poppy I guess, I thought it was really accessible and it has definitely gotten me attracted to their older stuff.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: DarkAvenger on 11 Sep 2010, 17:57
I think generally EVOL and Sister are the ones agreed on to begin with as they are probably their best albums? Personally I've always been a big fan of Bad Moon Rising. Also Confusion is Sex/Kill Yr. Idols. But everything before their move to Geffen, and everything in recent years (since Murray Street) has been good.

So: Listen to Sister. If you like it, go backwards in their catalog, if you still prefer Daydream Nation (listen to it as well) then go forward.

Edited for unintended question mark
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scarychips on 12 Sep 2010, 17:55
So, listening to the albums after Daydream Nation and before Murray Street isn't mandatory to appreciate their body of work?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 12 Sep 2010, 21:04
Mandatory? What a strange way of thinking about it.  Dirty and Washing Machine are each fantastic.  They may not be as unquestionably influential as other Sonic Youth albums, but you don't have to be an obsessive or a collector of all things Sonic Youth to appreciate them. 
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 12 Sep 2010, 21:06
Oh hey guys, gimme the lowdown on Tortoise. I saw them at ATP and they were maybe my favourite band of the whole weekend.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 12 Sep 2010, 21:48
Ignore their last two albums and you'll probably be good.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 12 Sep 2010, 22:00
More detail, plx. They are completely different than what my second-hand impressions of them led me to believe. Are they a band that have considerably changed their sound or was I just under the wrong impression as to what they are about?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 12 Sep 2010, 22:21
Go with either Tortoise or Millions Now Living Will Never Die
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JayJayD on 21 Sep 2010, 13:03
Oh hey guys, gimme the lowdown on Tortoise. I saw them at ATP and they were maybe my favourite band of the whole weekend.
I started with TNT, and it's still my favourite of theirs, so I'd recommend that.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Retrospectre on 14 Oct 2010, 06:49
Hey guys:

Boredoms?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Tom on 15 Oct 2010, 13:36
I've been listening to What's Going On and Let's Get it On a lot lately. I want more soul + doo wop in my aural diet, where to go from here?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 15 Oct 2010, 19:56
I've been listening to What's Going On and Let's Get it On a lot lately. I want more soul + doo wop in my aural diet, where to go from here?
Pretty much all the Motown/Stax output from around then. Being a bit less general, listen to Otis Redding. Best voice.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: valley_parade on 19 Oct 2010, 09:29
Black Keys? My girlfriend has an album on her iPod, but I don't remember what the hell it's called.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 19 Oct 2010, 16:23
Tom, get Night Beat and One Night Stand: Live at the Harlem Square Club by Sam Cooke. Probably the single most influential soul singer in the genre's history.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 19 Oct 2010, 18:41
WELL MET INLANDER

I HAVE POWERS YOU CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 19 Oct 2010, 21:58
 :psyduck:
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 06 Nov 2010, 09:20
Jay Reatard?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 06 Nov 2010, 09:21
Get the Matador singles compilation, I believe it's in the Mediafire thread
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: valley_parade on 06 Nov 2010, 10:20
And don't skimp on his pre-solo stuff. Terror Visions was incredible.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: kwami42 on 04 Dec 2010, 18:49
Venetian Snares

Einstürzende Neubauten
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 16 Dec 2010, 08:46
Suicide?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 16 Dec 2010, 08:57
Venetian Snares

I may or may not get shit for this but I say just snag a copy of Rossz Csillag Alatt Született and be done with it
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: amok on 16 Dec 2010, 09:00
Doll Doll Doll is pretty cool too.

Quote
Einstürzende Neubauten

Just get Kollaps and work your way forward until you start getting bored of them. (Not the most inspired answer but in this case it really does work.)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 16 Dec 2010, 09:51
Suicide?

Oh, Oh, I got this one! Listen to Suicide. Then, listen to Suicide. There's two. That is all.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 16 Dec 2010, 11:18
Man spotify has a lot more options than just two albums, and only one of them is called Suicide, and Spotify claims it was released in 2004 (but I just had a look at the track listing and it seems to match up, so I'll listen to that).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 16 Dec 2010, 11:23
How weird! Yeah, the first came out in 1977 and the second in 1980. The first one starts with a song called "Ghost Rider."
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: ThePianoMan on 17 Dec 2010, 08:42
Venetian Snares
People generally say to start with Rossz, which is pretty melodic, which is good advice as long as you realize it's not a typical album (insofar as Venetian Snares even has a "typical" album)--it samples from a lot of jazz and modern classical. From there you might try Detrimentalist, which is a revival of '94-ish Drum n  Bass done startlingly well, or Cavalcade of Glee and Dadaist Happy Hardcore Pompoms, which is closer to typical for them (i.e. really really fast breakcore).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JayJayD on 20 Dec 2010, 12:56
How weird! Yeah, the first came out in 1977 and the second in 1980. The first one starts with a song called "Ghost Rider."
There is another band called Suicide, they play death metal I think. They produced albums in the mid-naughties.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 20 Dec 2010, 13:27
Oh right, it's a pretty simple name. I guess it was kind of elitist for me to assume he was talking about Alan Vega/Martin Rev Suicide, but I honestly have no idea how any band with the same name could be remotely as good or innovative.  But hey, maybe death metal Suicide is aight, who knows.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 21 Dec 2010, 07:48
You were talking about the right Suicide, Spotify was in the wrong. They have the self-titled album listed as 2004, which is faulty!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KickThatBathProf on 24 Dec 2010, 20:39
From the 2010 music thread,

The Thermals
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 24 Dec 2010, 22:14
Now We Can See is pretty much how I define The Thermals, but I've listened to The Body, The Blood, The Machine and Personal Life a lot more this year. I would start with Now We Can See, move onto to Body, and end with Personal Life. Personal Life is quite a bit slower and bassier than the other ones. Body is really aggressive and fast paced. Now We Can See is a pretty good middle ground I feel like?

I didn't really like Fuckin A
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: the_pied_piper on 25 Dec 2010, 09:04
The Thermals are a band who have really progressed visibly, more so than most other bands I can think of and I'd say that each album has a definition of its own. If you want to hear a bit of everything from them then The Body, The Blood, The Machine is where to start and heading either way from that the music either gets clearer (Now We Can See and Personal Life) or more fuzzy (More Parts Per Million and Fuckin' A).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Kyros on 25 Dec 2010, 16:45
As the self proclaimed resident Thermals expert (seen em' 5 times, interviewed them once, favorite band etc. etc.) I would have to agree that starting with The Body the Blood, The Machine or Now We Can See is your best bet. These are the two "most Thermal-y" albums they have ever put out. Their first two albums are much more lo-fi and fast tempo punk songs, and the newest one, Personal Life is a whole new sound.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: SWOON! at My Gravitas on 27 Dec 2010, 21:44
Where is a good place to start with Psychic TV?

Oh, also Current 93.  Both artists have intimidatingly large discographies
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 18 Jan 2011, 06:06
Guys, where do I start with beardmetal, or however you guys describe it these days.

Like, what blogs, labels, websites would you recommend to follow or have a look at?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 18 Jan 2011, 06:15
Maybe this post could be helpful?

http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25859.msg1002476.html#msg1002476
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 18 Jan 2011, 06:37
Yeah that post got me interested. Just wanted to know where to go from there.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 18 Jan 2011, 08:07
You could try just listening to some gosh dang heavy metal like a normal person rather than what some poseur at a hip metal blog like Invisible Oranges or Metal Inquisition thinks, that would be a start.

 :mrgreen:


The stuff that seems to be in with the type of people who don't actually like heavy metal these days is mostly post-black, the odd bit of DSBM and certain blog-approved black crust and Cascadian USBM bands (restricting my focus only to things that are actually heavy metal) so if you want to actually listen to some good stuff (riffing with increasing looseness on these themes) you should probably pick up:

Agalloch - The Mantle
Ulver - Nattens Madrigal: Aate Hymne Til Ulven I Manden (probably not just the best black metal album ever made, but that best black metal album it is possible to make)
Blut Aus Nord - The Work Which Transforms God
Panopticon - Collapse
Burzum - Hvis lyset tar oss
The Meads of Asphodel - Mill Hill Sessions
Iskra - Iskra
Wyrd - Huldrafolk
Lurker of Chalice - Lurker of Chalice
Sigh - Imaginary Sonicscape
Caïna - Temporary Antennae (or Caïna EP)
Sui Caedare - Thrène
Lifelover - Pulver
Black Kronstadt - The Free Spirit
Darkspace - Darkspace III
Dishammer - Vintage Addiction
A Forest of Stars - The Corpse of Rebirth
Aborym - Kali Yuga Bizarre
Monarque - Ad Nauseam
Horna - Viha Ja Viikate
Borknagar - The Olden Domain
Lake of Blood - Heed the Primal Calling
Carpathian Forest - Bloodlust and Perversion
Tulus - Pure Black Energy
Menace Ruine - The Die is Cast
Velnias - Sovereign Nocturnal
A Cloud Forest - Through the Eyes of the Ambivalent


In that order. You will then be in the enviable position of knowing something about metal that you didn't read in a Southern Lord press release or Brooklynvegan. Don't read blogs unless they're in German and all the graphics are stills from The Witchfinder General. Only website you need is Encyclopedia Metallum. If you want to follow a label, fall through a timewarp to the early 90's and follow Black Mark and Deathlike Silence Productions. NO MOSH! NO CORE! NO TRENDS! NO FUN!

Also,

Current 93 - All the Pretty Little Horses or Cats Drunk on Copper live album (in the wink wink thread)

Psychic TV - A Pagan Day or Towards Thee Infinite Beat (or just listen to TG and Coil instead because PTV is just a little bit of a let down)


Enjoy!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Zingoleb on 18 Jan 2011, 10:47
Guys, Jackson Browne.

I've been really meaning to listen to Jackson Browne.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 19 Jan 2011, 15:22
There's a lot of good recommendations in Khar's post but I'd just like to add that following everything he says to a tee places you in grave danger of becoming an insufferable self-serious cock about metal, and having one of those around here is enough thank you.

(also if you really must listen to Burzum get Filosofem and be done with that guy forever after)
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: StaedlerMars on 19 Jan 2011, 15:27
Basically I've listened to The Mantle like three times in a row. It's pretty awesome. Thanks Khar!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 19 Jan 2011, 15:29
But Dovey, what about Ea? You know, the lord of the depths? He always needs new victims. Poor Ea.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 21 Jan 2011, 02:14
There's a lot of good recommendations in Khar's post but I'd just like to add that following everything he says to a tee places you in grave danger of becoming an insufferable self-serious cock about metal, and having one of those around here is enough thank you.

Sorry, you like Converge so you're not allowed to talk about metal with the big boys, kthxbai.  :-D
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Cire27 on 21 Jan 2011, 02:21
Wait, I thought Converge were a metalcore band?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 21 Jan 2011, 10:00
exactly
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 21 Jan 2011, 17:05
Venetian Snares
His most recent album My So-Called Life is sort of a best-of even if it doesn't include anything from his previous albums. It just kind of incorporates every style he's ever tried on.

Beyond that, Rossz and Detrimentalist are his most accessible albums. Go backwards from there.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 21 Feb 2011, 18:58
Where should I start with The Brian Jonestown Massacre?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JimmyJazz on 21 Feb 2011, 19:13
It really depends on what kindof rock music you prefer. While the BJM can be characterized in general as a psychedelic rock band, they change their approach from record to record. That being said the album Give it Back! is an excellent introductory one as it's a good overview of the various styes they tackle on their other 90's records. I'd also get Take It From the Man! (inspired by garage rock that preceded the BJM on Bomp!) and Their Satantic Majesties' Second Request, (their love-letter to 60's psych) probably their best albums. I wouldn't start with their newer material; I personally enjoy it quite a lot but it's stranger and is a matter of debate among Jonestown fans.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JimmyJazz on 21 Feb 2011, 19:23
added the albums mentioned above to the wink wink thread
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 21 Feb 2011, 21:55
o/
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JimmyJazz on 22 Feb 2011, 17:47
\o

Now hopefully I'll have an excuse to make a BJM thread
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 25 Mar 2011, 06:07
Bill Callahan

I got a hold of Red Apple Falls a couple years ago and was really into it for awhile. Since then I have kind of forgotten about this dude. Help me fix that.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: SWOON! at My Gravitas on 04 Apr 2011, 16:06
What are good places to start with Throbbing Gristle and/or acid house and/or industrial rock?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: ThePianoMan on 04 Apr 2011, 17:25
What are good places to start with Throbbing Gristle and/or acid house and/or industrial rock?
20 Jazz Funk Greats is generally known as their most accessible, but it's not very industrial. Still a must-listen, though. I'd really recommend Suicide--not industrial, per se, but very in line with the aesthetic. Absolutely brilliant, at that. As for acid house, it's hard to say just because it was so singles-oriented; I don't know what the best comps are. If no one else has anything I can see about posting/uploading some essential singles, because I have a pretty good amount of it.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KvP on 05 Apr 2011, 19:55
A good place to start with acid house is probably Ten Ragas to a Disco Beat (http://boomkat.com/downloads/294785-charanjit-singh-ten-ragas-to-a-disco-beat), which isn't actually acid house (it predated the phenomenon by a few years) but nonetheless sounds remarkably similar.

Psychic TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVUPH4XL7Q) released some seminal albums in the late 80's. Coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26yLdN-uiWU&feature=player_detailpage#t=305s) also dabbled.

As for industrial rock, well, you'll meet a lot of people with taste who claim that none of it was very good, but you'd probably do well to start where most people do - Skinny Puppy's Too Dark Park (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW-wIwBs_ts), Ministry's The Land of Rape and Honey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRxVov_0a0) and The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5DOSC0jUo&feature=related), and Nine Inch Nails' discography up until The Fragile. A lot of people like KMFDM but I never got into them. Swans' Greed / Holy Money is more industrial than rock but it's certainly a watershed.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KharBevNor on 05 Apr 2011, 21:43
I would hesitate to call Too Dark Park (or even Skinny Puppy in general) Industrial Rock. If you're going to be that loose with the definition I might recommend, say, 'Third Mall From the Sun' or 'Light, But Refreshing' by Snog, or going the other way maybe albums by Alien Sex Fiend or some Neu Deutsche Welle bands, particularly Malaria! and Deutsch Amerikanische Freundschaft.

The question with industrial rock is: what are you looking for? Do you want something heavy, metallic? If so, the above Ministry albums, or 'Pure' by Godflesh or many other Justin Broadrick related projects (I'm quite keen on the first Ice album 'Under the Skin' or 'Life is Easy' by the pre-Godflesh Fall of Because at this particular moment). If you're looking for the sort of industrial rock that you might hear soundtracking a 'dark and edgy' 90's action movie or school shooting you want KMFDM ('Angst'), My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult ('Kooler Than Jesus'), White Zombie ('Astro-Creep 2000'), Pig (never really rated Pig but I guess 'Sinsation'), the NiN mentioned above or, quite honestly, there's nothing really wrong with the first two Rammstein albums. If you're after something slightly more clever and a bit old-school, your best bet is Foetus ('Nail', which may have the artist listed as 'Scraping Foetus Off the Wheel'), Swans or Cop Shoot Cop ('Ask Questions Later'). There's also the really underrated J.G Thirlwell side-project Wiseblood, which is kind of what you'd get if you mashed together big-band swing and early Swans.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: KurtMcAllister on 06 Apr 2011, 21:55
So, I finally want to listen to Sloan. You cunts kept saying to do so, and now I am taking notice. Which album is the best to start with?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JimmyJazz on 06 Apr 2011, 22:03
I'd start with their early material.  Get Twice Removed and One Chord to Another, you can't go wrong with either. 
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 08 Apr 2011, 14:41
I would hesitate to call Too Dark Park (or even Skinny Puppy in general) Industrial Rock.

Skinny Puppy had one album you could call industrial "rock" and that one turned out the way it did because Al Jourgensen from Ministry was playing with them at the time.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Avec on 21 Apr 2011, 07:34
I'm really digging Yo La Tengo's Ride the Tiger, where do I go from here?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: valley_parade on 21 Apr 2011, 11:09
I've been noticing that a lot of the punk bands I like seem to dig Superchunk, and I also like the cover New Bruises did on their split with O Pioneers!!!.

Superchunk me, guys.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 21 Apr 2011, 11:40
I too would like to be Superchunk'd
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: michaelicious on 21 Apr 2011, 11:44
I'm really digging Yo La Tengo's Ride the Tiger, where do I go from here?

It's all good from that point onwards, just keep going in order. I can't think of one which I'd feel okay about skipping. Great band.

I second this sentiment. Don't overlook the EPs. There is some pretty cool stuff tucked away on them.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JimmyJazz on 21 Apr 2011, 12:19
For Superchunk, you can't go wrong with No Pocky for Kitty. It's produced by Steve Albini, what else could you ask for?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 21 Apr 2011, 14:52
Their new record is a rather good place to start too.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: MusicScribbles on 21 Apr 2011, 15:27
I have to agree with Tommy, but you should check out Majesty Shredding. It's exciting to hear Superchunk coming out with more good material.
Also, John Darnielle is on the album doing backup vocals for Digging for Something. His unbridled enthusiasm shows through in a way that makes me smile.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: nufan on 29 Apr 2011, 13:17
Sleater-Kinney? I'vet got Jumpers on my Spotify playlist but unsure of where to go next Also, I guess riot grrl in general? (are they riot grrl? at the moment I know fuck all about it).
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 29 Apr 2011, 15:51
I would start on Dig Me Out or The Woods.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Avec on 04 May 2011, 16:27
Okkervil River, please?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 04 May 2011, 17:17
I have a question for this thread, but I've already started, so I want to know where should I go next with Joan of Arc?

I have Flowers, which I love, and Boo Human, which mostly annoys me, but has a couple good songs. So what next?

if they have more acoustical jam-out awesomesauce songs like the six minute masterpiece "flowers" then I'd love to hear them, but I get the feeling that that song is a bit of an anomalie.

recommending other bands that aren't necessarily joan of arc or joan of arc related is okay too
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 04 May 2011, 19:45
Just FYI Tommy is full of shit and also Black Sheep Boy is the super-obvious choice
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Inlander on 04 May 2011, 21:11
Okkervil River, please?

For the Okkies I'd recommend seeing them live before you've heard a note of their music, then collecting their albums based on which songs from their show you liked best.

That's what I did and it was ace.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Tom on 04 May 2011, 21:20
Start with the Stage Names and work backwards. Skip Savanah Smiles, that song sucks.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 04 May 2011, 22:13
Anyone know some good Crust? Stuff like Black Breath and Darkthrone?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: valley_parade on 05 May 2011, 08:30
Anyone know some good Crust? Stuff like Black Breath and Darkthrone?

Would Trap Them cover this? Trap Them are insane.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 05 May 2011, 15:27
Anyone know some good Crust? Stuff like Black Breath and Darkthrone?

Yeah Trap Them, Nails, Lebanon, The Secret, All Pigs Must Die, Disfear, Coliseum (the last two are not crusty as such but certainly would be enjoyed by fans of the aforementioned), uh pretty much anyone signed to Southern Lord recently.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 05 May 2011, 15:35
Also expect Khar in here momentarily to recommend some REAL CRUST YOU FUCKING TRENDHOPPING ASSHOLE HIPSTERS
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: valley_parade on 06 May 2011, 06:40
Anyone know some good Crust? Stuff like Black Breath and Darkthrone?

Yeah Trap Them, Nails, Lebanon, The Secret, All Pigs Must Die, Disfear, Coliseum (the last two are not crusty as such but certainly would be enjoyed by fans of the aforementioned), uh pretty much anyone signed to Southern Lord recently.

I still haven't gotten around to that Lebanon 7". What'd you think?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 06 May 2011, 14:03
Neither have I, actually! I liked what I heard of samples on the Southern Lord site or their Myspace or whatever but I'm so, so terribly behind with new heavy music. I haven't properly listened to several of the bands on the list in my above post, actually.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 07 May 2011, 21:19
Khaaarrrr recommend me crust
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JD on 07 May 2011, 21:20
though I  will go check out the stuff you mentioned right now dovey
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: SWOON! at My Gravitas on 08 May 2011, 09:15
Amebix!
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: David_Dovey on 08 May 2011, 10:06
Amebix!


Hahahaha no but seriously folks
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: De_El on 08 May 2011, 10:18
I used to think Crass WERE crust, but it's just because crusties like Crass.
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: Avec on 04 Aug 2011, 09:32
What about the Sonic Youth?
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: godspeed on 08 Aug 2011, 13:08
Most accessible are Dirty and Rather Ripped.
Then proceed to Daydream Nation, their often considered magnum opus
From there I think you have two paths, either pre-DDN or post. I think their sound really changes in that time.
Do not listen to Goo, the band was in a bad place and they really were being pushed around by their new major label.
The Eternal is their newest and most generic, so I wouldnt really look at that.
Washing Machine is great, and the finale to it, The Diamond Sea, is probably their best song they ever recorded
Title: Re: Where to start?
Post by: JayJayD on 30 Sep 2011, 13:31
I would start with Daydream Nation, really their best, maybe one of the best albums ever.
I have to contradict godspeed, Goo isn't at all bad, it has my favourite SY song Tunic (Song for Karen).
I would also recommend Sonic Nurse, and in particular the underrated A Thousand Leaves.

And check out some of their more abstract, instrumental stuff, aka the SYR series.
The latest "Simon Werner a disparu" is probably the closest they've ever come to post-rock.