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Fun Stuff => CLIKC => Topic started by: mberan42 on 18 Feb 2010, 15:34

Title: Civilization V
Post by: mberan42 on 18 Feb 2010, 15:34
Arriving Fall 2010: http://civilization5.com/

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27292/Firaxis_Announces_FullScale_Civilization_V_For_PC.php
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Emaline on 18 Feb 2010, 15:35
Words cannot even begin to describe how incredibly excited I am for this!!!
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 18 Feb 2010, 15:37
I wonder if they've got any plans to cut down on the power of the ol' Stack of Doom. Although, tbh, I'm not sure how much I really want to see complicated war mongering in Civ. The series already has an awful lot going on.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Reed on 18 Feb 2010, 15:42
You know, I've always thought that cultural domination is one of the most fun ways to play the game. I hope they provide new options for that!
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 18 Feb 2010, 15:54
I am incredibly excited for this, I am all over the hex map and ranged bombardments.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 18 Feb 2010, 18:54
I pee'd my pants when I saw this announcement.

I've also never seen such a beautiful hex grid.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Storm Rider on 18 Feb 2010, 20:14
You know, I've always thought that cultural domination is one of the most fun ways to play the game. I hope they provide new options for that!

I agree, I really enjoy turtling in Civ and going for culture and Great People.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Johnny C on 18 Feb 2010, 20:29
i loved going to space, and also nuclear war
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: est on 19 Feb 2010, 02:57
Still reading about it, but I also love the new hex grid.  For some reason it makes me think of Settlers of Catan, which makes me smile.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: est on 19 Feb 2010, 03:02
Also, I kind of expected by now that they'd have the ability to expand large cities out of the one-square size.  Like, to throw out suburbs and such once you hit a certain tech and pop level.  It'd be an added challenge, because you'd have to weigh up the benefits of the extra population it could sustain with expanding over the top of services like farms and such.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 19 Feb 2010, 04:10
That would be a decent feature. I'd also like to see the leveling up feature expanded a bit, possibly to include purchasing upgrades as well, or things that give a big bonus but some detriment.

And the hex grid looks beautiful, but it does mean that the number of surrounding tiles is cut by two.

And I want that view city feature that was in Civ III but not IV. I always went for culture and turtling over conflict, mostly because I blew at it, and that view that crammed all the buildings and wonders onto the screen was really pretty. IV's really close zoom in just didn't cut it for me after that.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: est on 19 Feb 2010, 04:46
Cut by two?  What do you mean?  I thought Civ had used square tiles up until this point, meaning that this would add two neighbouring squares.

edit: ah, it's a square, but you can move diagonally, right?  Hmm.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: CardinalFang on 19 Feb 2010, 05:08
So this means I should start stocking up on supplies and saving my vacation and sick time at work because after this comes out there's a good chance I won't be leaving my apartment for awhile.



Also now I want to play Civ IV and I'm stuck at work. DAMMIT!!
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 19 Feb 2010, 09:45
Cut by two?  What do you mean?  I thought Civ had used square tiles up until this point, meaning that this would add two neighbouring squares.

edit: ah, it's a square, but you can move diagonally, right?  Hmm.

Among other things, the physical distance you can cover with a given amount of steps is more accurate.

This is because with hexagons, no matter which direction you pick, you will move the same distance.

With squares, if you move toward one of the corners you actually move sqrt(2s^2), which is a little farther than the s you move if moving horizontally or vertically.

With this hex map, a builder can enjoy more proactive defensive strategies, while a warmonger can completely divide an enemy state with a few well-placed infantry. I imagine, in play, this will result in some significant battles taking place outside of cities, which would be a major step forward IMO.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 19 Feb 2010, 10:54

With squares, if you move toward one of the corners you actually move sqrt(2s^2), which is a little farther than the s you move if moving horizontally or vertically.

Yep. That's why a diagonal square counted as roughly 1.5 squares in 3.X D&D. With that said, it's not really a big deal in small scale games though, which is why they just said screw it and went 1 for 1 in 4th Edition. After all, that game isn't really about logistics and grand strategy-- any advantage the players can gain through using the faster diagonal movement is largely counteracted by monsters being able to do the same, and where you finish the fight rarely has a big impact on how you're going to play the rest of the campaign. But for a game like Civ, hexes are pretty welcome, since Civ often comes down to collecting interest on small advantages over a large number of turns.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Storm Rider on 09 Mar 2010, 15:38
Bumping this topic for a good ol' fashioned infodump.

First, there's this IGN article (http://pc.ign.com/articles/107/1075587p1.html). The combat stuff is mostly already known, but there's some new info on how the interface and AI work that I found interesting. Also, the game will now automatically populate the map with neutral city-states that are more like mini-Civs than barbarians. They won't work towards any victory conditions, so they're mostly there to negotiate with/crush as you like. They also talk about the leaders and their backdrops, which makes me wonder whether I'll get to see Montezuma in a suit like in Civ 3.

There's also a Eurogamer interview here (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/civilization-v-interview?page=1), but there's very little information about the game in it. Who knows why, maybe the interviewer was too interested in his own cleverness like Eurogamer tends to be. You get a chance to talk to the lead designer of the next Civilization game and you piss most of it away talking about fanfiction and whether the game is educational, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Finally, somebody in the SA thread for this game collected all the confirmed Civs and known leaders in a list.

Germany - Bismark
China - Wu Zetian
America - Washington
Japan - Nobunaga
Arabia - Harun al-Rashid
Mongolia - Genghis Khan
Rome - Julius Caesar
France - Napoleon
England - Elizabeth
India - Gandhi
Ottomans - Suleiman
Inca - Leader unknown (Probably Huayna Capac)
Aztec - Montezuma
Songhai - Askia
Russia - Catherine
Egypt - Ramesses II

There are 18 Civs in total, so we still don't know 2. It's pretty likely that the Greeks are one, considering they were one of the original 'untouchable' Civs, but the last one is anyone's guess. Some people are theorizing that they'll do another African Civ, probably the Zulu since putting both Mali and Songhai in would be kind of redundant. I'm a little disappointed that multiple leaders per Civ is gone, but since every leader has unique traits and a full model now maybe that would be more complicated. Oh well, I'm sure there will be inevitable expansions for that.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 09 Mar 2010, 16:53
Cool. I particularly like the cap on units based on what resources you have available, since presumably they could make resource tiles a touch more common while still keeping a check on army sizes. The distance between your starting city and the nearest copper reserve was far too important in Civ IV, especially in the early patches. I'm as likely to try to go for a cultural, space or political victory as I am to war monger, so I'd definitely be willing to bear a unit cap provided I have better than even odds of acquiring crucial resources.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: David_Dovey on 09 Mar 2010, 19:49
Have the Carthaginians been in a Civ game ever?
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 09 Mar 2010, 20:09
Yeah.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: KvP on 09 Mar 2010, 20:41
They were definitely in 2. Can't remember if they were in others.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 09 Mar 2010, 20:52
They're in Civ IV via the Warlords expansion as well.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Boro_Bandito on 09 Mar 2010, 21:20
Hannibal has pissed me off in so many Civ IV games I can't even tell you, it's weird thinking he probably isn't going to be in this one.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 09 Mar 2010, 22:52
Hannibal has pissed me off in so many Civ IV games I can't even tell you, it's weird thinking he probably isn't going to be in this one.

He will.  Between expansions and mod-tools, you can rest easy.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 09 Mar 2010, 23:01
Or uneasily as the case may be. But yeah, Hannibal is a pain in the ass. Boudica might be more aggressive, but Hannibal has a douchey way of bringing some of his friends to the party.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: David_Dovey on 10 Mar 2010, 01:16
I've never really liked turn-based anything not one little bit, but I do have an unbearably stiffy for history. It also appears that most of the series' titles are available for OSX. Should I get them?
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: KvP on 10 Mar 2010, 01:18
If Alpha Centauri is available for Mac, get that.

Otherwise Civ 4's okay. I stand by Civ 2, though. The music, and the civ advisors, has never been better. Every civ game (minus Alpha Centauri, I think) has had a weird, sort of annoying design flaw in its combat. Lately they've all made turtling super powerful.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: David_Dovey on 10 Mar 2010, 01:26
Are there better history-based strategy games out there (real-time or turn-based?). Age of Empires? Total War?
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: KvP on 10 Mar 2010, 01:49
Depends on what you're looking for. In terms of war, Europa Universalis 3 is super, super dense but very thorough and realistic. In terms of ease of use and accessibility, and to some degree flexibility in how you play, Civ is up there.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Spluff on 10 Mar 2010, 01:52
Total War is a lot of fun, even if the 4X side is lacking.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: David_Dovey on 10 Mar 2010, 01:58
I figure a name like "total war" probably gives that away pretty early though. Yeah, I like the idea of all the 4X stuff. I guess I'll give Civ4 a try.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 10 Mar 2010, 02:29
I really like and suggest the Total War series.  Buy Total War : Rome, it's like $5.  If you like that, explore your options.  There are also tons of mods for TW: Rome and it's successors that improve graphics, add campaigns, etc.  Some are actually better than the developer campaigns.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: est on 10 Mar 2010, 03:29
I am playing Empire TW at the moment and hardly ever playing the battles, turning it into a sort of 4X light.  Some battles I'll play though, like when I am defending a fortified city with two squads of home guard troops because people have come out of nowhere and caught me unawares.  Then I need them to intelligently man the cannons and all that shit, but mostly simming the battles turns out alright.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: snalin on 10 Mar 2010, 03:51
Are there better history-based strategy games out there (real-time or turn-based?). Age of Empires? Total War?

Age Of Empires 1 and 2 are fuccin great games. Unit control can be a hassle in big battles in 1, but slowing the game down during fights and up during gathering always works for me. Both have stories completely based on history or archaeology - real battles and real wars, where number 3 is about some knight from Sicily going to America after the fountain of Youth.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 10 Mar 2010, 15:35
If you want to play the AoE games, don't go backwards. Either start with 1 or don't play it at all, because simple things like an idle worker search button and being able to queue production of different types of units, not to mention gates, are essential once you've spent more than an hour with them at your disposal.

They're all great though, even 3.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Scandanavian War Machine on 10 Mar 2010, 15:39
I played AoE 2 a little bit back in the day and really liked it.

Then I discovered Civilization and it all went downhill from there.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Covetous on 10 Mar 2010, 22:31
I'm wondering if the Vikings won't have one of the two last spots. They were one of the nations in Civ 2 (<3 <3 <3) and they do apear in the cinematic trailer.


And if you want to play a large game with lots of macroing I recomend Dominions (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/DOM3/DOM3_page.html) 1-3. Don't get discurege by the "crapy" graphics.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Storm Rider on 21 Mar 2010, 19:55
17th Civ is in fact Alexander and the Greeks. Only one more left to be revealed. Popular guesses are currently the Vikings or the Zulu, but who knows, they could pull something crazy out of the hat like Songhai.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: JD on 21 Mar 2010, 20:02
Maybe it'll be jesus
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 21 Mar 2010, 20:03
I'm just glad Alexander is in so I can just select him and not bother to input a name.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: KvP on 21 Mar 2010, 21:04
I like to play him on the Earth map just so I can get squashed by the Romans in no time flat.

Europe is always way too small.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 21 Mar 2010, 23:04
I was playing Civ IV yesterday and I was at war and it sucked. I had to endlessly produce cavalrymen and then infantry because the enemy had a dozen fucking guys on their cities, and it just got dull. Having one unit per tile is definitely the way to go.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: bryanthelion on 25 Mar 2010, 20:40
Hopefully they make it possible to be more focused on one or two paths to victory.
I've always felt forced to go level up all of my different technologies instead of focusing on my two favorites (Culture and Economics)
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Blyss on 30 Mar 2010, 10:19
I just drooled on myself a little...

 :-o
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 30 Mar 2010, 10:27
I've always felt forced to go level up all of my different technologies instead of focusing on my two favorites (Culture and Economics)

I always kinda saw that as a good thing, tbh. If you could just set a couple of priorities to "MAXIMUM RESOURCES!!!" and win consistently that'd be sorta lame. The difference between a mediocre civ player and a good one is the ability to know just how much you need to compromise the big picture victory condition to meet basic needs and to thrive in the short term. I mean, hell, I won a cultural victory last week in which I decimated or outright destroyed 3 other civs. Needed to steal me some wonders.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 31 Mar 2010, 13:36
I won a cultural victory last week in which I decimated or outright destroyed 3 other civs. Needed to steal me some wonders.

It's jerks like you that caused the Library of Alexandria to burn.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 31 Mar 2010, 13:59
Yeah, but I had a few praetorians leftover from curb stomping Tokugawa burning a hole in my pocket. That's how emperors roll.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 31 Mar 2010, 14:01
TBH, I really did start out wanting to play a peaceful game, but random assigned me the Romans and stuck me right between Tokugawa and Boudica. I don't think the message could have been any clearer even if Sid himself slapped me on the back of the head and said "Build a fucking army."
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 07 May 2010, 06:24
Civilization V just went up for pre-order on Steam today. $50 for normal Civ V and $60 for the Deluxe Edition.

Quote from: Steam
Pre-Purchase Civilization V
Pre-Purchase now to receive the Cradle of Civilization Map Pack: Mesopotamia

Pre-Purchase Civilization V - Deluxe Edition
Pre-Purchase now to receive the Cradle of Civilization Map Pack: Mesopotamia
- Plus also get the bonus Babylon Civilization with leader "Nebuchadnezzar II"
- Behind the Scenes at Firaxis with Civ V video feature
- Game Soundtrack

Also, not sure if it matters for anyone here, but Civilization IV complete is $10 right now.

Due to my eager pounce upon the pre-order, I accidentally ordered the normal version before realizing the DX even existed. Hopefully Steam is okay with me giving them $10 more and lets me correct it.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 07 May 2010, 07:25
Fuck that; $80 US for the regular and $90 for the pre-order over here in Australia.

Nope, not buying that. Not from Steam anyway, I'll probably grab a boxed copy off of ebay or PlayAsia. Shit, I could probably get it for that price at JB Hifi in town.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 07 May 2010, 07:29
I am pretty certain that you can make a US account for Steam actually and use all your normal information. I know it was a work around UK folks were using to not get screwed on prices for a while.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 07 May 2010, 19:05
There was a really basic one where you just used the specific US url but I think they put a stop to that one. I'm more insulted by the fact of it than anything else.

I was probably going to buy it boxed anyway because of the manual, which is usually good reading.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Martok on 20 May 2010, 01:17
Fuck that; $80 US for the regular and $90 for the pre-order over here in Australia.

Nope, not buying that. Not from Steam anyway, I'll probably grab a boxed copy off of ebay or PlayAsia. Shit, I could probably get it for that price at JB Hifi in town.

You do realize that all versions of Civ V -- including the standard boxed/retail versions -- will have Steam, right?  I'm surprised more people aren't bitching about this. 

Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 20 May 2010, 02:48
Nah, I love steam and all its little features. It's just that a few publishers see fit to jack up the price for Australian customers to match the price of physical copies, which sort of defeats the purpose of getting the steam version over that. Especially when you get a big manual and some charts.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 20 May 2010, 05:01
In the US at least, it's not publishers doing that, it's retailers. I mean, I'm sure publisher's are perfectly fine with it, but the threat of companiess like Wal-Mart and Gamestop refusing to sell your game because they're being undercut by a digital retailer is what causes a lot of the problem.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 21 May 2010, 08:44

You do realize that all versions of Civ V -- including the standard boxed/retail versions -- will have Steam, right?  I'm surprised more people aren't bitching about this. 

I think it's kind of shitty, but in all honesty I have a little over 100 games on Steam and have never had any problems with it. So my complaints would be awfully silly. It's also a much better DRM option than Securom or Starforce and I'm going to guess is probably part of what is going to help along a few features of the game itself what with it supporting Steam Cloud.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 21 May 2010, 14:45
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I understand and sympathize to an extent with the people who often face DRM headaches, but for whatever reason I've always gotten away unscathed on that front. It makes it hard for me to passionately run with the "DRM is a scourge" narrative.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 22 May 2010, 01:35
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I understand and sympathize to an extent with the people who often face DRM headaches, but for whatever reason I've always gotten away unscathed on that front. It makes it hard for me to passionately run with the "DRM is a scourge" narrative.

Anything added to the game for no reason that hurts or is detrimental to people who actually buy the game is enough reason to hate DRM.

The kicker is that pirates don't have to deal with the same DRM that hurts these consumers.

Do you see why this is ironic?


Personally, I'm fine with DRM like Steam because it comes with a host of other features such as downloading any of your purchases on any computers as many times as you like.  That's useful to me personally because I hate keeping physical copies lying around for me to lose.  Games such as Ubisoft's Assassin Creed 2 or Settlers 7 have torrents out that pirates are playing, yet, some consumers aren't able to play the game because of Ubisoft's DRM.  I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. 

TLDR :  DRM sucks for consumers and doesn't bother pirates.  Steam is currently the only acceptable DRM, imo.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 22 May 2010, 12:44
Anything added to the game for no reason that hurts or is detrimental to people who actually buy the game is enough reason to hate DRM.


Unless you are me, apparently.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 22 Jun 2010, 05:07
I love CivAnon so much,

http://kotaku.com/5569527/civilization-addiction-is-as-real-as-this-trailer-suggests
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 09 Jul 2010, 13:24
Retail Collector's Edition (http://kotaku.com/5583378/civilization-v-develops-snazzy-100-edition) for Civilization V shown off.

If I was still a miniatures that would be well worth the extra cash. Of course that would also assume that I wanted a physical disk.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 19 Jul 2010, 09:06
OK . . OK . .

I bit the bullet and pre-ordered the (Steam) Special Edition.

If the soundtrack is even half as good as IV's, it'll be worth it.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 19 Jul 2010, 09:18
I do love me some Civilization soundtracks.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 19 Jul 2010, 11:06
I do love me some Civilization soundtracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJmJ6Orq2E0

Baba Yetu (the Civ 4 theme) was composed by Christopher Tin (a US composer).  The lyrics are The Lord's Prayer in Swahili.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: johnny5 on 04 Aug 2010, 22:19
for some reason steam doesnt work for me anymore. it says "Unable to connect to HTTP Proxy. Your proxy may be misconfigured or offline." fuck you steam
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 04 Aug 2010, 23:06
Mechs have been confirmed for the game. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=374023)

Happy to hear that future tech is actually being utilized to some extent.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 09 Aug 2010, 06:02
Specs (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=374130) have been announced.

Quote
Minimum System Requirements

Operating System: Windows® XP SP3/ Windows® Vista SP2/ Windows® 7
Processor: Dual Core CPU
Memory: 2GB RAM
Hard Disk Space: 8 GB Free
DVD-ROM Drive: Required for disc-based installation
Video: 256 MB ATI HD2600 XT or better, 256 MB nVidia 7900 GS or better, or Core i3 or better integrated graphics
Sound: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
DirectX®: DirectX® version 9.0c

Recommended System Requirements

Operating System: Windows® Vista SP2/ Windows® 7
Processor: 1.8 GHz Quad Core CPU
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Hard Disk Space: 8 GB Free
DVD-ROM Drive: Required for disc-based installation
Video: 512 MB ATI 4800 series or better, 512 MB nVidia 9800 series or better
Sound: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
DirectX®: DirectX® version 11

Other Requirements: Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication; software installations required (included with the game) include Steam Client, Microsoft Visual C++2008 Runtime Libraries and Microsoft DirectX.

Internet Connection and acceptance of Steam™ Subscriber Agreement required for activation. See www.steampowered.com/agreement for details

Software license terms available in game manual and at www.take2games.com/eula. Non-transferable access to special features such as exclusive, unlockable, downloadable or online content, services or functions may require single-use serial code, additional fee and/or online account registration (13+). Access to special features may require internet connection, may not be available to all users, and may, upon 30 days notice, be terminated, modified or offered under different terms.

Also, Morgan Shepperd (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0792003/) (aka, the hologram from Seaquest) has been announced as the Tech Tree narrator.

Edit - I'm quite happy to see the first major release game fully embrace 64bit. It also amuses me greatly how people are genuinely outraged that their 5 - 7 year old computers can't run the game.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 25 Aug 2010, 13:01
Less than a month, bitches!!    :-D
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 13 Sep 2010, 12:25
Game went live for Pre-loading as of a few minutes ago on steam.

Also, as Bryan reminded me, there is a streaming 2 hour game session being played today at this website (http://www.ustream.tv/2kgameslive) at 4pm GMT-4.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 13 Sep 2010, 13:54
Game went live for Pre-loading as of a few minutes ago on steam.

Also, as Bryan reminded me, there is a streaming 2 hour game session being played today at this website (http://www.ustream.tv/2kgameslive) at 4pm GMT-4.

Thx for the heads up.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Ozymandias on 13 Sep 2010, 15:12
Good fuck that game is pretty
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 13 Sep 2010, 16:32
This game will consume my life like every other iteration and it'll be the first Civ game to impress me with it's graphics!

I am excited as all hell.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 14 Sep 2010, 06:30
Wow, even as slow paced as their explanatory playing was, the game looked amazing and fun.  The combat specifically looks fantastically fun.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 21 Sep 2010, 07:50
Unlocked now bitches!
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 21 Sep 2010, 17:06
Bushido is amazing.  Also, The Great Library slingshot works wonders.  Basically race to the tech, build it, get the following tech as the free tech, and you get a free civic.  Damn.  Playing on Noble atm.  Germany is being a real pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 27 Sep 2010, 06:35
Ok, I've been playing pretty much non stop and thus far my favorite thing is to become the City State God Emperor. Once I can clear my own area out I tend to have 1 - 3 citys that do nothing but pump out units as quickly as possible. I gift every single unit to an allied city state or 3 on an opponent's continent and then declare war, sit back and watch the notices of cities being razed and taken over while I laugh maniacally.

Having an entire continent being owned by a city state who is also gifting you all of that continent's resources without having to pay unhappiness? Glorious.

Now on to more serious things. There are very few things in general I don't love about this game thus far. Alll of the Civs feel quite powerful and I haven't played all of them yet, I haven't run into a single one that I've found to be a chore to play. I think my favorite thus far is probably Greece due to my already stated love of City State manipulation. That and their horseman UU (Unique Unit) is amazing. I suspect it might be nerfed a bit in a patch honestly, but then again the Roman Praetorians in IV never were so it's quite possible they will stay as is, at least until an expansion.

For me, the hardest thing by far to adjust to is/was the new economic and happiness system. It's a bit rough going from Civ IV's focus on early game fast expanding up to 5 - 6 cities to Civ V where fast expanding is 3 cities.

I guess some people were fearing the game would be averaging a smaller map size than IV but I can assure you that is not true at all. The maps feel a lot larger to me, but with the extra movement of units and the expanded workable tile size of cities, standard maps are probably roughly the same relative size. Might feel a little crowded at your starting point if you have a couple of city states and civs nearby, but once you start exploring it becomes very apparent how large the world is.

It's got some bugs still and needs a bit of polish with some patching, but this is the norm for a new civ releases so no big surprise there.

Also the game really is gorgeous.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 27 Sep 2010, 07:15
I don't know if you'd call this an exploit, but I like to park a unit next to the last city of a defeated empire and level him off the constant city attacks.  If he has a medic upgrade, you can sit them there indefinitely.  With the double XP upgrade policy and a long conquest campaign, my now artillery is nearly maxed on upgrades and can nearly one shot any unit (2 attacks / 4 range).  I've also found that fast expanding and annexation works well if you prop up your economy via trading posts.  I have about 20 cities and I'm still bringing in 200 gold per turn with positive happiness with enough surplus to buy happiness buildings if the need arises.  My social policies suffer a bit, but I have such a devastating military that I can push to wipe out anyone approaching a victory condition.  Playing China @ Noble.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 27 Sep 2010, 08:11
Oh yeah, you definitely can expand far beyond the three, I just mean the early game sweet spot that Civ has for number of settlements. If you end up getting ridiculously luck with a large number of luxury goods to boost your happiness in the first couple cities you could probably expand more earlier, but I prefer to trade luxuries early game for cash anyways to pump out City State alliances or extra troops earlier.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: KvP on 27 Sep 2010, 12:04
Something to note - the hammers-to-gold ratio is wayyyyyyy out of whack. Gold rules all. It is much more cost-efficient to quickly build an inferior unit and then upgrade it on the cheap than to buy a unit, unless you absolutely need a unit in one turn.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 27 Sep 2010, 13:10
Yup, though gold is important enough in enough different categories that I find it is still a good practice in what to use the gold for and when. I'm gonna guess at some point some more polishing on it may be done with patches though.

On the other hand, after several months of beta this may have been their intention to make the gold economy ridiculously important. I mean, after all you still have to balance what you're spending it on and economic vs military and social techs and that does help balance it quite a bit. Either way any big balance changes will likely wait for expansions.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 27 Sep 2010, 16:21
Something to note - the hammers-to-gold ratio is wayyyyyyy out of whack. Gold rules all. It is much more cost-efficient to quickly build an inferior unit and then upgrade it on the cheap than to buy a unit, unless you absolutely need a unit in one turn.

I'm going to have to disagree.  I think the gold efficiency is needed due to the importance of gold.  If you're buying units without an immediate need for them, you're wasting gold that could be spent better elsewhere.

Gold has the following abilities :
City State Relations (Lump Sum)
Buying Units / Buildings (Lump Sum)
Research Agreements (Lump Sum)
Army / Unit Upkeep (Per Turn)
Needed for Roads / Rail (Per Turn)
Building Upkeep (Per Turn)

Although it depends on your playstyle, it's obviously important to ally yourself with as many influence-based city states as you can due to limiting yourself to a few cities.  Maintaining multiple city-state relationships is expensive.  Keeping your per Turn gold income positive is a tough job when you're balancing the city-state relationships, and heavy building upkeep.
In my playstyle, it's vital to keep a gold store for yourself to field units instantaneously depending on where they're needed particularly across a large warfront.  Roads are also extremely important on larger maps.
Happiness buildings and research Agreements are really necessary no matter what your playstyle is.  My first game on Warlord was quite a bit easier just from the 'bonus' happiness you start with.

The only two balance issues I've been having is with Greece (their unique unit is a bit overpowered) and the imbalance of cannons / artillery.  It just seems that three artillery stacked on any large area can dominate the game.  The only real counter is fast-moving calvary, which become a bit underpowered / obsolete just before the modern era.  There's also a bunch of 'filler' tech that has to come before you can transition to other counters.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 27 Sep 2010, 16:30
Yeah, the Greek UU is just... silly.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Storm Rider on 27 Sep 2010, 19:04
My computer can't run this game. It was worth the attempt though, because trying to run the demo was amazing. The game would load (with horrible slowdown) if I turned everything all the way down, but the hilarious part was that all the text was garbled and completely illegible. I think it might have something to do with it not being meant for laptop aspect ratios? I don't know what the fuck, but it was kind of funny before I had to deal with the crushing (but expected) disappointment of not being able to play Civ 5.

But I've got Etrian Odyssey 3 right now and Dead Rising 2 comes out tomorrow so whatever.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 28 Sep 2010, 03:44
Dead Rising 2 is going to be a nice break tonight. I've already logged a silly amount of hours into this game.

The only real problem I have with the gold economy in this game is that I don't see much point in building mines rather than Trading Post when it's a hill without a resource. Otherwise yeah, there's just no way you can do everything you'd want to do with your money even doing incredibly well with your economy. you can make certain aspects of your civ a lot more efficient by just buying your way through but to make a real difference you need to commit to that aspect pretty heavily. Personally I'm also finding it rather difficult to pinpoint when it is and isn't worth just purchasing buildings since production is so much slower now than it used to be.

David, have when it comes to Puppet cities, when are you finding the sweet spot for annexation to be? As of right now I'm basically removing all farms and non resource mines and replacing it all with Trading Posts (barring starvation issues) and then I try and annex around population 8. That seems to be around the time that building the courthouse isn't a ridiculous affair and they seem to mostly pay for their own unhappiness by 8 pop. It pained me greatly when I first realized I couldn't purchase the courthouse.

Also Bismark is a raging cock.


Edit - Ok, I know I should expect things like this anytime change is brought about in a game franchise, but Jesus Shitting Christ the Civ Fanatics forum is reminding me how much I hate the general gaming community.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 29 Sep 2010, 01:48
Is there is a chance that a mine will 'uncover' a resource like in Civ IV?
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 29 Sep 2010, 14:16
Edit - Ok, I know I should expect things like this anytime change is brought about in a game franchise, but Jesus Shitting Christ the Civ Fanatics forum is reminding me how much I hate the general gaming community.

Yeah, the way some of them are carrying on you'd think that Civ4 was perfect rather than a game that succeeded in spite of the Prat Stack of Doom .
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 29 Sep 2010, 21:10
Edit - Ok, I know I should expect things like this anytime change is brought about in a game franchise, but Jesus Shitting Christ the Civ Fanatics forum is reminding me how much I hate the general gaming community.


Yeah, the way some of them are carrying on you'd think that Civ4 was perfect rather than a game that succeeded in spite of the Prat Stack of Doom .

They just want the game to be as good as it can be.  Personally, I like it better than Civ4 despite its flaws and lack of content (compared to 4 which has two expansions already).  I kinda see 5 as a work in progress just as I did with vanilla Civ 4.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 30 Sep 2010, 06:00
Man, I know some of them are and I appreciate the hell out of the folks trying to keep it sane and posting actual criticisms, but that's not the rather large vocal group actually posting right now. The bitchy folk on the pro side of the fence aren't any better. Also any thread involving Steam makes me want to commit grisly murders.

I'd say as of right now, Civ IV is the better game. It's got nearly 5 years worth of patching and balancing as well as 2 expansions, so that's no real surprise. V does have a hell of a lot of potential and I'm personally enjoying it more than IV as well. This is due to various reasons, including removing a lot of the ridiculous microing and 1UPT. The slower pace of early game expansion is also welcome in my book. Definitely a work in progress as you said and I'm quite looking forward to seeing it blossom.

Now that I've played a couple more games to the end, more feature discussions!

The AI definitely needs some lovin'. The military aspect of the AI is pretty laughable They build all the right units but they get stuck in going back and forth between tiles instead of attacking, they move siege units right next to your melee units and you can protect a City State by putting a unit in each tile around the city and laugh at the massive number of enemy units that are surrounding the city and can't seem to recognize you as meddling in their affairs. In the event you get the AI to negotiate peace they are far too willing, for the most part, to give you a ridiculous amount of resources that regularly includes multiple cities. On the other hand I like that the AI actually seems to care more about troops on their borders and various other nice touches.

One complaint I see a lot on Civ Fanatics right now is that the AI is too "random" with their attitudes and declarations of war and such and that the civs don't have much personality anymore. I honestly think this just has to do with their difficulty in dealing with the AI without hard numbers backing everything up. I have definitely noticed rather obvious patterns in the personality of each Civ leader and differences in how they react to certain gestures. Bismark for example is a glorious dick. Always warring with City-States, always pretty friendly until it comes to blows but incredibly demanding even when you're allies. Very much in line with the Iron Chancellor. Montezuma is... well, he's Monty. Professional attack dog and dickbag.

I've pretty successfully made several enemies and allies with AI Civs and I like seeing the deterioration in a friend's attitude towards me as they realize that I'm getting too powerful for them to deal with and I edge (or rush, whatever) closer to winning. This especially becomes quite rich and when you factor in the City-States and all of the leaders relationships with them. I imagine it needs work (I'm not going to pretend like I know how well it's coded),  but thus far I like that the AI is trying to win and I can't woo them past a certain point by playing the numbers game with Religion.

Great People are... well, they're pretty great. The Great Scientists might actually be too good honestly. Scientist give you a free tech completely, not just research points, so it's pretty ridiculous how quickly you can slingshot with them if you focus on it. Great Engineers are basically the same as Civ IV, incredibly useful for finishing wonders. Great Artists are a little more situational but are useful for getting a little bit of extra resource, but usually I use them for Golden Ages.

More later.

Edit - Note that I would like some extra details on other Civ's opinions of myself. Right now the only two indicators are Hostile and War. A simple Friendly, neutral etc indicator would be plenty for me. I'd like to keep hard numbers out of it.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: benji on 30 Sep 2010, 06:25
ackblom, this was written about tabletop gaming (http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/alttext/2008/06/alttext_0618) but you might find reading it cathartic anyway.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 30 Sep 2010, 11:14
It's painfully true.

Is there is a chance that a mine will 'uncover' a resource like in Civ IV?

Sorry, forgot to answer you, but no, mines have no chance of uncovering a resource.

I kind of feel like Mine's need to give 2 production instead of 1 to make them more tempting, but I can't help but feel like that would have a drastic as hell effect on the gameplay.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 30 Sep 2010, 11:32
It's painfully true.

Is there is a chance that a mine will 'uncover' a resource like in Civ IV?

Sorry, forgot to answer you, but no, mines have no chance of uncovering a resource.

I kind of feel like Mine's need to give 2 production instead of 1 to make them more tempting, but I can't help but feel like that would have a drastic as hell effect on the gameplay.

I see mines as a 'build only if needed for a resource' type improvement.

I do often times have production-based cities which are an exception to the rule. 
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 30 Sep 2010, 11:46
Yeah, if there's no resource that hill gets a Trade Depot in my games.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 04 Oct 2010, 05:33
ackblom, this was written about tabletop gaming (http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/alttext/2008/06/alttext_0618) but you might find reading it cathartic anyway.

Forgot to say thank you for this. This really is almost as bad as the new edition releases at the D&D forums. I just can't imagine that  any of these folks would seriously say that Civ IV was any better at release. Civ IV had a shit load of problems at release, especially with the AI, and it seems that Civ V is no different. I think it would be less irritating if not for the insistence from many of the complainers that people who like Civ can't like Civ V. It's doubly irritating because I just can't stop reading these threads.

The D&D threads and Civ Fanatics is also a good example of why I despise the term "dumbed down."

Continuing on, I've played an embarrassing amount more and I need to try a few higher difficulties with the current AI. I also don't understand why I can't grasp early expansion still. I've tried but it always seems to be about turn 70 - 80 before I can drop my 3rd city and it's very odd to me and I feel like I should have my 4th one by then. 50 should be seeing my 3rd one drop. Admittedly, fast expansion was never a specialty for me in Civ but it is a little frustrating to not be able to get this down when it is a fairly simple process.

The AI is definitely a bit of a bit mess with the AI just not comprehending how to use military, not being able to do warfare on other continents and diplomacy is a little rough to get down. The diplomacy is likely just due to the fact you don't get to see any info on your relationship with other Civs. I still think putting the numbers back in would be a mistake, but I would definitely appreciate some more details on why your relationship with a civ is the way it is.

The game also needs some definite optimization patching. On a standard map, starting at about mid game the turn end can take a good while. I'm frightened of playing a game on Huge since I'm sure it'll get a bit ridiculous and I'm playing on a 3.6 ghz Quad core with 4gigs of RAM. I'm expecting the eventual 64bit capable release to ease a lot of these issues, but it's still a bit silly for the time being.

tldr; It has a lot of the same issues that Vanilla Civ IV had at release and I expect it to greatly improve over the coming months and years. Still a ton of fun.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 08 Oct 2010, 05:42
Huge maps. Jesus fuck.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Ozymandias on 08 Oct 2010, 09:10
I'm not even gonna try for a few patches. Large made me weep.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 08 Oct 2010, 12:48
Waging war across a huge map is pointless.  With the rate you can buy / create units, you can't field an invasion as fast as the defender can reproduce his defense.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 08 Oct 2010, 13:19
I'm doing it pretty successfully on my own continent on King actually. I will not even dare attempt it once I eventually meet the other landmasses.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 08 Oct 2010, 13:43
My problem with big maps is that I've always been rather perfectionist about my city placement. Once I more or less mastered war mongering in Civ IV I started gearing my games more around farming points and all-around dominance rather than trying to meet win conditions as quickly as possible. I really have to fight the urge to break out the graph paper after early scouting.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Alex C on 08 Oct 2010, 13:45
Not that it'd work with the fuckin' hexes.

I mean, I like the hexes, but gah.

Oh, wait, that's right: I can just print out some paper with hexes. Fuck yes.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: mberan42 on 08 Oct 2010, 13:58
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Ozymandias on 08 Oct 2010, 15:36
Man. So I've been going through achievements, just seeing what I can do as I play through each civ and then I found

My Little Pony
As Catherine, research Horseback Riding before any other Civ.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Papersatan on 08 Oct 2010, 17:42
Obviously she'd like Bryan's Equine traits.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Storm Rider on 09 Oct 2010, 04:50
Jesus, who even told you about that?
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 09 Oct 2010, 07:05
The easier question Bryan is who doesn't know.

So I finally managed to finish a Huge game on King. Gave up on a game I was playing with Askia when Hiawatha finally declared war and proceeded to beat me into a pulp with a ridiculously large army and decided to go with a different approach. Won with Ghandi doing the Bollywood challenge. By the end of that the end turn was taking a full 60 - 90 seconds and it was painful as hell. I got the achievement though, so now I can wait for patches to make huge maps more bearable.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 09 Oct 2010, 16:14
That reminds me of playing Civ IV and The Witcher on my old pc. I'd have my mobile handy so whenever it felt the need to take a long pause I'd play some snake. Not ideal, but oh well, I now have a quad-core.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: look out! Ninjas! on 12 Oct 2010, 22:21
So I finally got my copy in the mail after what seemed like fifty turns, and I've played a game and decided that this is the best civ. It probably won't go as deep as Beyond the Sword did, but to criticise it as not having as much content as a game that has had two expansions is silly. But everything just seems to work better than vanilla civ IV.

Now, how to cheat the deluxe/pre-order civs and that into my regular edition.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: DavidGrohl on 13 Oct 2010, 07:43
So I finally got my copy in the mail after what seemed like fifty turns, and I've played a game and decided that this is the best civ. It probably won't go as deep as Beyond the Sword did, but to criticise it as not having as much content as a game that has had two expansions is silly. But everything just seems to work better than vanilla civ IV.

That was my conclusion to the 'T'.
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: ackblom12 on 13 Oct 2010, 08:00
Good news! Patching is due here in a few weeks and they already have a good list of things that will fixed.

Here is the 2k Thread. (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94438)

Quote
You guys have been asking for an update about what we're working on to improve the game, and today I am happy to give it to you.

This is the list of updates to the game that the developers have been working on the past couple weeks. This isn't necessarily the complete patch notes for the next patch, but it's what I have so far.

Keep in mind that these are just the first batch of changes that will go in to the first major patch. We're planning more improvements (such as the much-asked-for Hotseat and Pitboss) that will be coming in a later patch.


UI
Fix for production prompt that sometimes appears with newly created puppet states that could stop the player from being able to end the turn.
Aircraft banner corrections – now when you rebase an aircraft, the number will move with it.
Resource icons now come up with Ctrl-R again, instead of sharing the same button with Build Roads.
Selecting a great general will no longer cause yield icons to appear.
Added option to disable auto-unit cycling.
Fix for full-screen game when running dual monitors. Previously, the curser could scroll off the “open” side, and not be able to scroll the map in that direction.
Misc additional fixes to mouse controls, and other interface issues.
Rounded out financial information in the Economic Overview screen. Details now provided on the amount of gold provided by each city, the cost of buildings in each city, etc.
Auto-populate save menu with save file name
Allow selection of other cities by hex from within the city screen
Added detailed trade route info to Economic Overview screen

MODDING
Category list now displays correctly

GAMEPLAY
Workers - Added option to force workers to ignore manually made improvements (so they don’t change what you decide was best for a plot).
Workers - Fixed bug where number of turns to complete were incorrect in build action button tool-tip.
Economy - Fixed bug where players could disband a single unit, and not see the economic return until disbanding 1 more.
Economy – Increased city wealth setting to 25%
Economy – Multiple fixes to the way trade-routes are tabulated and recognized.
Economy - Can now sell Buildings in a city (to help lower maintenance for obsolete buildings later in the game).
Trade – Found and corrected a Trade problem that could cause your Resource inventory to multiply.
City States - Fixed a bug where you could not gift aircraft to city states.
Military - Medic promotion now only provides healing bonus for adjacent units.
Military – Fix for Minuteman movement.
Military – Correct promotions for “archer-like” units (horse archers, chariots).
Military - Embarked units will no longer slow enemy land units
Military - Improved unit cycling logic. Camera will jump around much less.
Balance - Engineers +1 hammer

AI
Military – Better handling of unit need (navy vs land, etc.) .
Military - AI will tend to build ships to deal with blockaded cities more often
Military – Corrected an issue hampering movement of AI armies, especially when in close proximity to enemy forces
Diplomacy – AI will be more reluctant to offer or accept open border agreements with more powerful opponents.
Diplomacy – Fix for never ending deals (peace, research agreements, etc).
City – City specialization and city focus improvements.
City - Cities that are Avoiding Growth will not grow while that option is selected
Workers – Priority of trading posts reduced, and rebalanced priorities on other improvements
Workers – Improved the path-finding mechanic when building route-to roads improved, including a large performance increase when evaluating road-pathing.

MULTIPLAYER
Exploit – Fix for gifting unit exploit
Chat – Color-coding, sound alerts, etc., added for in-game chat system, including a larger window.
Deals – Additional deal validation put in place to verify deals before they are committed

MISC
Research treaties that end because you declare war will no longer grant the free tech
Save/Load – Fix for corrupted saves being experienced by some players in late-game.
Map - Huge map crash-during-load fix that were reported on some specific systems.
Map – Terrain caching fix that could cause problems for certain video cards (the “glowing red orbs” seen on the map are an indicator of this).
Map – Fix for the low res terrain that appears the first time the game is run (terrain tiles would not load in anything but low-res the first time you play on some computer configurations)
Strategic View – Crash fix for units rendering in background.
Strategic View – Fix for selecting units either standing on a city plot, or garrisoned in the city plot.
Eyefinity – Better handling of leader scenes when using Eyefinity displays.
Tutorials – Many tutorial tweaks and adjustments.
Multiple crash fixes.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see AI fixes and gameplay balancing coming in this early, I assumed it would all be bug fixing. Either way I'm happy to see these coming in, especially the increase in production for Engineer specialist, the ability to sell buildings and the ability to remove auto unit cycling. It all looks like a good start though.

Judging by the thread, it also sounds like this may not be a complete list of the fixes coming in on this patch. Good times!
Title: Re: Civilization V
Post by: Gemmwah on 16 Nov 2010, 17:30
My best friend gave me this for my birthday. My life is now over.