THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2010, 20:43

Title: WDT: June 14-18, 2010 (1686-1690)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2010, 20:43
So whatcha expecting this week?

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2010, 22:03
Pornographic porcupine porridge.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2010, 22:10
DOH! Knew I forgot something. Restart.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Kugai on 13 Jun 2010, 22:32
Shocked expressions on Dora and Marten's face as they find Tai and Marigold making out in the same room as Faye and Angus are.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 13 Jun 2010, 23:24
Sara or Raven.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2010, 23:25
No, no, no, I am NOT going for the easy ones.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Jun 2010, 00:07
Since she's at the least had a yen for every female that's crossed her path thus far, I agree that "Tai lusting after Marigold" is a given, unless you mean in an active, perhaps grabbing, sort of way. Actually, I'm wondering if Jeph won't chill on the whole Marigold thing for a few days. I'm hoping we actually get to see Cosette do some of the stuff in the tweets. Or was that Marten?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 01:44
Was Faye trying to grab Angus's butt?  More importantly, did Faye and Angus hear the conversation between Marigold and Dora?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: sieckanddestroy on 14 Jun 2010, 01:47
Jeph, we will never forgive you for that newsfeed pun. :roll:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 14 Jun 2010, 02:31
I am now officially shipping TaiGold. With some SvenGold on the side.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 03:02
Angry,

I was going to say that TaiGold was an absolutely terrible idea but then I realised that we don't really know if she's straight or not.  After all, we know she's not that self-aware so, if she's not, then TaiGold.  Although I'm a DaleGold shipper I do have to admit that Tai's a geek at heart (remember her secret identity).  If Marigold is straight then I think that Tai and her would become good friends.

However, I think SvenGold is a definite no-no.  In fact, I think somebody should talk to Hanners about getting a new body because I think he should go with Momo.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 14 Jun 2010, 03:13
Yay Comic !

Momo with Sven, lol ! :-D (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658)


Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Arancaytar on 14 Jun 2010, 04:49
Shocked expressions on Dora and Marten's face as they find Tai and Marigold making out in the same room as Faye and Angus are.

You mean we won't see shocked expressions? Or all of that?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 14 Jun 2010, 04:56
Perfect reaction - and pie sounds lovely.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Binary on 14 Jun 2010, 05:11
If Marigold is straight

No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: matachin on 14 Jun 2010, 05:23
If Marigold is straight

No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).

Somehow I think this is the next time we're going to see the sex toy store.

Marigold may identify as straight, but it's a hazy scrubbed up fantasy a la Hanners & the firemen.  And with friends like Tai & Dora, they're both going to get a bit distracted if clothes shopping with Mari.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 14 Jun 2010, 05:27
If Marigold is straight

No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).
Oh great I just spent half an hour searching for that one freaking comic for another thread ... and I was so close, too, I checked all strips until 1500 before I finally gave up.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: sudamerican on 14 Jun 2010, 06:08
Faye and Angus almost look like they're holding hands in the 3rd panel
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 06:13
If Marigold is straight

No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).

I was thinking about that strip but, as Jeph has informed us on multiple occasions, Marigold isn't exactly self-aware.  This gives him wiggle room to take the strip in either direction.[1]

Faye and Angus almost look like they're holding hands in the 3rd panel

You might be right there.

[1] I've been watching politicians so long it's an automatic reaction for me to look for "escape clauses" in things people say.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 14 Jun 2010, 06:44
Well, at least they're not doing any other annoying "couple" things like saying the same things at the same ti... oh, wait.
 ;)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 08:50
Well, at least they're not doing any other annoying "couple" things like saying the same things at the same ti... oh, wait.
 ;)

That made me smile (as did Tai trying not to laugh in the last panel).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jun 2010, 09:30
That made me laugh, as did Tai apologizing for drama.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: SleeperCylon on 14 Jun 2010, 10:46
What did Angus try to put on?  Was it actual good music or crappy pop?  Lo-fi is only good when the band has actual songwriting skill instead of just droning on with random experimentation.  But all the Pforkers seem to only like the 'Droning with random experimentation' stuff.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: sudamerican on 14 Jun 2010, 11:06
and then when you suggest they listen to actual Drone, they say they don't like or some shit
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jun 2010, 12:49
Difference in musical taste (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=578) has come up before.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 14 Jun 2010, 12:51
HiFranc,

I see your DaleGold and raise with a SvenDale. I'm in a "shrug why not, let's see what happens" mode right now. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Binary on 14 Jun 2010, 15:07
SvenDale sounds like a ghastly marketing name for a new brand of cheese.

DaleGold sounds like a ghastly marketing name for a new brand of butter.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Jun 2010, 16:05
All couple portmanteaus are ghastly—it's their nature. Meanwhile, I'm trying to work out if Tai missed her targets or was genuinely going for the friendly.

Has anyone ever said "It's not what it looks like" when there isn't at least some likelihood that it is, in fact, most exactly what it looks like?

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 14 Jun 2010, 16:34
Meanwhile, I'm trying to work out if Tai missed her targets or was genuinely going for the friendly.

I doubt she could miss if those were her targets, they just spent a whole lot of time establishing how big they are!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Jun 2010, 18:02
If Marigold is straight
No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).
Oh great I just spent half an hour searching for that one freaking comic for another thread ... and I was so close, too, I checked all strips until 1500 before I finally gave up.

Why search, young padawan? (http://home.roadrunner.com/~jhouk/QCSxS.pdf)
Or better still... (http://www.scribd.com/doc/32349451/Questionable-Content-Strip-by-Strip)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Jun 2010, 18:12
If Marigold is straight
No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).
I was thinking about that strip but, as Jeph has informed us on multiple occasions, Marigold isn't exactly self-aware.  This gives him wiggle room to take the strip in either direction.[1]
Faye and Angus almost look like they're holding hands in the 3rd panel
You might be right there.

[1] I've been watching politicians so long it's an automatic reaction for me to look for "escape clauses" in things people say.

He also said that he doesn't want another Faye (or even Dora).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 14 Jun 2010, 22:11
Meanwhile, I'm trying to work out if Tai missed her targets or was genuinely going for the friendly.

I doubt she could miss if those were her targets, they just spent a whole lot of time establishing how big they are!

This. Although, there's booze at this party, and the last time Mari got drunk........I can see a tanked Tai being all "lemme touch em" and an even-more-tanked-Mari saying "Touch em? Fuck that, you can SEE EM! *Dress goes flying off*" and the ENTIRE PARTY doing that head-tilt thing.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 22:54
If Marigold is straight
No 'ifs' about it - see panel 1 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1493).
I was thinking about that strip but, as Jeph has informed us on multiple occasions, Marigold isn't exactly self-aware.  This gives him wiggle room to take the strip in either direction.[1]
[...]
[1] I've been watching politicians so long it's an automatic reaction for me to look for "escape clauses" in things people say.

He also said that he doesn't want another Faye (or even Dora).

I missed that. :oops:

{edit}I just remembered something (whilst I was in the shower): Wasn't his comment in relation to being self aware?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 15 Jun 2010, 01:09
OH NO WHAT IS MARIGOLD GOING TO DO?
I wonder if her extreme calm hides a dastardly scheme... or whether she is playing matchmaker or something like that... Damn you Jeph!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 15 Jun 2010, 01:15
Uh, I guess she's just making sure the boy she's going to leave behind is OK.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 15 Jun 2010, 01:17
Matchmaker matchmaker, make me a match...

*sst* *vwoomph!*

AAARG! OHGODWHY? AAIIIEEeeeee...

Cautionary, to Marigold: Playing with matches can get you burned.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: J on 15 Jun 2010, 02:02
perhaps she has chosen to be scientific and will now take this opportunity to observe a forming relationship from it's zygotical stage onward. then, only when she has collected all necessary data on the subject will she attempt to replicate her subjects' behaviors and create a prototypical relationship of her own.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 15 Jun 2010, 02:18
Wait, I thought we were talking about Marigold?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Odin on 15 Jun 2010, 03:04
Wait, I thought we were talking about Marigold?

Yeah. The only "subtle" thing I see happening here is Marigold is going to sabotage things with Faye and Angus before they even get a chance to start.

Marigold is the female equivalent of a "Nice Guy", complete with giving Faye a bullshit talk that I'm surprised Jeph didn't have end with a "You'd better treat him right! :x " line. 

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 15 Jun 2010, 03:07
I think she would find the situation easier to deal with if Angus and Faye were together.  This is my reasoning:

If they're together, then she could blame her lack of a relationship with Angus on the fact that Angus was interested in someone else.  If that were not the case then she would have to face the thought, from her own low self-esteem that there was something wrong with her.[1]  If Angus chose Faye over her and they broke up over something stupid, then that would imply, from her self-esteem point of view, that she's even worse than someone who is being stupid.

Obviously, she's not self-aware so she is not aware of all this reasoning (it's just lurking in a sub-conscious).  The only thing she's aware is the thought of Faye and Angus being together makes her feel better so she's doing what she can to support them.

[1] Her self-esteem would have been too low to accept that sometimes personalities don't match.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: LeeC on 15 Jun 2010, 03:09
or perhaps she considers angus her friend and is trying to help him :wink:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Jun 2010, 03:35
Wait, I thought we were talking about Marigold?

Yeah. The only "subtle" thing I see happening here is Marigold is going to sabotage things with Faye and Angus before they even get a chance to start.


Yeah, um, I think she is actually trying to do the opposite.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: DoubleJ on 15 Jun 2010, 05:38
I agree with JackFaerie -- anime and manga, which Marigold spends a lot of time and money consuming, is full of "just a friend" types who go to great lengths to make sure the person they have the hots for is happy in their relationship with somebody else. it may be rubbing off on her in a subconscious way, or she may be basing her actions on the only thing she knows.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Jun 2010, 05:44
<snip>
He also said that he doesn't want another Faye (or even Dora).

I missed that. :oops:

{edit}I just remembered something (whilst I was in the shower): Wasn't his comment in relation to being self aware?
Yes... but he said in that same aside about self-awareness (and I quote): "The last thing my comic needs is another super-detached female character who is constantly self-analyzing and quipping about everything she says."

Sorry, that's Faye to a "T".
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Jun 2010, 05:47
or perhaps she considers Angus her friend and is trying to help him :wink:

.... Naaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: vonschiller on 15 Jun 2010, 05:49
Yeah, when did people start assuming Marigold is a scheming witch? Last week she was a poor helpless girl that was holding a pity party for herself, and in the span of five minutes, after she's had a realization that she's okay with this, she's going to destroy it?

Pick one way or the other, guys. She has one friend. She doesn't want that one friend to get hurt.

Now, when they break up, THEN Faye's in for a world of hurt.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 15 Jun 2010, 06:38
She's not especially self-aware, but it's easier IME to be sure what you're not into than what you are.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 15 Jun 2010, 07:07
Now there's a plotline. Faye hurts Angus, Marigold reprograms Pintisze to be even worse.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Odin on 15 Jun 2010, 07:15
Yeah, when did people start assuming Marigold is a scheming witch? Last week she was a poor helpless girl that was holding a pity party for herself, and in the span of five minutes, after she's had a realization that she's okay with this, she's going to destroy it?

Pick one way or the other, guys. She has one friend. She doesn't want that one friend to get hurt.

Now, when they break up, THEN Faye's in for a world of hurt.

Pretty sure I've been consistent in my disgust for her character and calling her a scheming witch.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: TAG on 15 Jun 2010, 07:34
Eh, I don't think Marigold is planning anything devious, at least not intentionally*.  She might still be a strain depending on how she acts and I'm sure Angus and Faye will potentially jump through hoops and hilarious hi-jinks to avoid her knowing about them since they don't know she knows.

I do think her basically 180 degree turn of character / behavior is rather sudden, but I've been expecting a Marigold Redemption arc anyway, so at least it looks to be short.

I guess we'll have to see how she behaves going forward.  Also someone should tell Dr. Corrinne about the novel new treatment of just complimenting boobs to make everything work out :P

I think she would find the situation easier to deal with if Angus and Faye were together.  This is my reasoning:

If they're together, then she could blame her lack of a relationship with Angus on the fact that Angus was interested in someone else.  If that were not the case then she would have to face the thought, from her own low self-esteem that there was something wrong with her.

I think this could play a big part.  In this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1683) strip she specifically whines about Angus not saying "Sorry Marigold, I'm interested in someone else" despite his having already told her flat out that he wasn't interested in her.  Marigold's implication is that without that someone else, Angus would have / may have been interested in Marigold.  So as long as Angus is into Faye, there's a convenient reason he's not into her.


*That said, devious Marigold would be interesting.  Mostly because, without the whining, there's not a whole lot of character there despite her being in the comic for something getting close to 300 strips.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: vonschiller on 15 Jun 2010, 07:45
I do think her basically 180 degree turn of character / behavior is rather sudden, but I've been expecting a Marigold Redemption arc anyway, so at least it looks to be short.

What I thought was sudden was not today, but Friday, when she had her ZIP I'm okay with this whole thing. That was the turn on a dime moment. This is a logical follow-up to that, making sure her friend is not actually going to lose out on this.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 15 Jun 2010, 09:51
I do think her basically 180 degree turn of character / behavior is rather sudden, but I've been expecting a Marigold Redemption arc anyway, so at least it looks to be short.

What I thought was sudden was not today, but Friday, when she had her ZIP I'm okay with this whole thing. That was the turn on a dime moment. This is a logical follow-up to that, making sure her friend is not actually going to lose out on this.

Marigold's "I . . . I am OK!" thing was sort of turn on a dime, but it made sense -- she hasn't been in a relationship, and therefore hasn't broken up with anyone, so she likely has an idea of what she's "supposed" to feel following a rejection, however gentle.  Was she hurt/embarrassed/disappointed when Angus said he only thought of her as a friend?  Sure.  But deep down, she wasn't as hurt as she thought she was, and talking to Dora helped her realize that.  So the turn on a dime moment was when she realized that the reality of how she felt didn't match how she thought she was supposed to feel.  She's learning.

What she said to Faye in today's strip is just her making sure Angus has his shot with the one he likes.  I'm still puzzling out how Marigold feels toward Faye, but whether they're friends or are on the way to that, Mar-bear seems willing to give Faye the benefit of the doubt at this point.  I can kind of see Marigold giving Faye surprisingly solid advice/feedback in the future, kind of akin to Raven's occasional moments of clarity, and Faye having a moment of 'I just got socially pwned by a shut-in'.  I'm looking forward to seeing where Jeph takes it.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Jun 2010, 10:57
To be honest, even if she WEREN'T ok, I don't see it as strange that she'd do it.  Feeling hurt and rejected does not mean that you can't also realize you can't do anything about the rejection, and act kindly towards your rival--especially if you also realize the rival never set themselves up as such consciously.  Basically, you can acknowledge your own emotions, but you can also act on rational principle rather than blindly indulging in them.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: IanClark on 15 Jun 2010, 11:32
Pretty sure I've been consistent in my disgust for her character and calling her a scheming witch.

I guess there's still call for it, so I'm going to write my "Why Marigold is not a sociopath" essay in the "What is Marigold's fundamental character?" thread. Should be up within two hours or so, I encourage everyone to check it out if you're into that kind of thing.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 15 Jun 2010, 13:12
D'aw, ain't that kee-yute, Mar-Bear just wants Angus to be happy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShipperOnDeck). 8-)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 15 Jun 2010, 13:46
I really dont get the reaction of some people here.

Marigold never did anything vile.

Yeah she lack social skills, obviously, but she is not evil.

She was interested in a boy, desparate even, and got rejected. Now she found out the boy was already interested in another girl. So there was nothing wrong with her, after all, and no reason for her self doubts.

She still likes that guy, though, and wishes he's happy so she can move on.

I consider that all fairly natural.

And being a "nice guy" myself, I definitely never uttered the line "you better treat her right". Thats something a father or brother would state. Nice guys in sad love rather suffer through the pain of seeing their love interest treated badly and dream of treating the girl well if she only would be interested in them instead of that asshole. But nooo they never say anything.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 15 Jun 2010, 14:21
To everyone hanging the "Scheming bitch" tag on Mari: WHAT, exactly, in any of her appearances makes any of you think she's Princess Machiavelli?

TV Tropes would call this a "I want him to happy". She can't have him, so she's making sure he and Faye are going to be OK. All we need now is a "if you do anything to hurt him" moment. Not that I think Mari could take Faye.......it'll probably be like "hurt him and I put 20 gig of kidde porn on your laptop and call the cops" or something.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Moxie on 15 Jun 2010, 14:55
To everyone hanging the "Scheming bitch" tag on Mari: WHAT, exactly, in any of her appearances makes any of you think she's Princess Machiavelli?

Skeptical of her apparent change of heart in supporting FayeXAngus? Relating this even to one in their own lives? Suspicion at Jeph's words: "What's come over Marigold all of a sudden?!"? General dislike of the character? Not surprised that a shut-in would also turn out to be a territorial person?


Given that Marigold wasn't aware that she was guilt-tripping Angus, I'm not sure she'd be intentionally messing with Faye. Being unaware of how her behavior is coming across is something Marigold seems to excel at. Also, whether or not she is genuinely happy about FayeXAngus, I'm not sure we'd know unless we hear her tell Momo that. So, like she was subconsciously guilt-tripping Angus, she could be subconsciously scheming to get Faye of of Angus' love life.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Jun 2010, 15:52
Also, whether or not she is genuinely happy about FayeXAngus, I'm not sure we'd know unless we hear her tell Momo that.

Of course she's not HAPPY about it. That doesn't mean she can't wish them well anyway, because regardless of whether she's happy (and perhaps accepting that she can't be in this case), she wants them to be. Is that really such an unusual concept? I know very few people in real life who actually operate on the motivation of "I'm not happy, so I'm going to try and ruin other people's chance at happiness." Happily.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: TAG on 15 Jun 2010, 15:53
Before this derails another WCT I'm just gonna direct people to the thread like, 3 down from this one where the topic of Marigold's character has been hashed out to death. :P

I'd also like to point out that someone can be a bad person without being evil, especially if you define "bad" realistically, as in having an abundance of negative traits and a scarcity of positive ones.  So strawmaning Marihate as "Marigold is a psychopath" is just a meaningless position.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Dliessmgg on 15 Jun 2010, 16:01
 So strawmaning Marihate as "Marigold is a psychopath" is just a meaningless position.
Except if the Marihaters are more or less saying that.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: TAG on 15 Jun 2010, 16:18
So strawmaning Marihate as "Marigold is a psychopath" is just a meaningless position.
Except if the Marihaters are more or less saying that.

Hey she could be.  Maybe it's all a ruse*.  She did just pull the closest thing to a Heel Face Turn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn) in QC history as far as I can recall (disregarding Steve's spy love), I'm not surprised people are wary.  And hell, a literal definition of sociopath might actually be valid (the term is poisoned by killers).  But there's a hell of a gap between "not a sociopath" and "good person".

*I don't think this.

Edit: Dammit, just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.  That's it for me in this thread on this topic.  'till tomorrow's comic anyway :P
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Jun 2010, 17:30
What WON'T we see this week?

Tai lusting after Marigold    - 2 (2.8%)
Faye and Angus making out    - 15 (21.1%)
Sven showing up at the party    - 17 (23.9%)
Dora and Marigold bra shopping    - 5 (7%)
Marten and Steve    - 9 (12.7%)
Pintsize and Momo    - 10 (14.1%)
Pornographic porcupine porridge with Pancakes.    - 13 (18.3%)

Total Voters: 71

Oh and by the way: tvtropes.org is down for some reason.

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Moxie on 15 Jun 2010, 17:57
Also, whether or not she is genuinely happy about FayeXAngus, I'm not sure we'd know unless we hear her tell Momo that.

Of course she's not HAPPY about it. That doesn't mean she can't wish them well anyway, because regardless of whether she's happy (and perhaps accepting that she can't be in this case), she wants them to be. Is that really such an unusual concept? I know very few people in real life who actually operate on the motivation of "I'm not happy, so I'm going to try and ruin other people's chance at happiness." Happily.


I meant that more in the larger context of my post. What I didn't explicitly say was that, if Marigold is not genuinely feeling better about the situation, she may be subconsciously trying to underhandedly chase Faye away from Angus.
If she is feeling better, that doesn't necessarily mean she's happy about it, but it does mean she's probably not being unknowingly sneaky like she was with Angus.

That's all I was trying to say.  :-)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Jun 2010, 17:58
What Marigold is doing is finding her way. She's seen a guide point, and she's steering towards it, minus the psychobabble rap the other characters tend to indulge in.

Makes me think of the Rush tune. (I've always thought the 'you' in the lyrics is the narrator himself.) Only problem may be the 'back.'
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 15 Jun 2010, 22:18
OK, let me see if I have this...

Some of you think that she's trying to matchmake, talking Angus up to Faye. 

Some of you think she's trying to sabotage Fangus with what appears to be reverse psychology. 

I hate to say it, but I can't see her doing either.  She's inexperienced enough that her first question actually makes sense; "Are you and Angus really fighting?" 

She doesn't know.  She's trying to understand.  She's been told they have the hots for each other, and now it looks like they're fighting.  Angry, even. 

"Isn't that kind of a silly thing to fight about?" 

Yes, it is.  Because Fangus is one of those lighning and hail producing summer storms. 

"So you're not really mad at him?" 

Like most summer storms, over quickly. 

Remember, this is all new territory for her.  These are like the questions of a little kid, after its parents have a tiff.  It's a learning experience for the kid, and can be very disarming for the parent! 

Just cause Faye can't figure her out doesn't mean she's deep and mysterious...
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Jun 2010, 22:41
Not sure precisely who that last second person feminine nominative case personal pronoun refers to, but it may well work either way.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Kugai on 15 Jun 2010, 23:17
She may not try her hand at matchmaking, but I think she's trying to understand just how their relationship is going.

I love Faye's 'Beat Moment' in the second to last panel.   :-D
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jordinyc on 16 Jun 2010, 01:01
OK before this runs on to a third page JUST over Marigold's supposedly suspicious positive attitude (too late?), I need to point this out:

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1685 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1685)

She's ok, just accept it. Man!

Marigold is NOT in love with Angus, she just wants a guy who's nice to her and he's been doing that. He also seemed like an opportunity to have said niceguy without going thru the whole try-and-get-burned process over and over. He was a potential convenience, not her beloved. She hasn't indicated any hatred or anger towards anyone, only embarassment over her own mistakes and frustration over theirs.

Not all socially reclusive people are psychos or emotional wrecks.


(maybe it's time to loose Akbar as an avitar picy XD)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: LeeC on 16 Jun 2010, 01:13
I guess tai losing her pants is a common thing she does when she's drunk and around attractive women.  And somehow I knew this would happen with tai by the end of the night.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 16 Jun 2010, 01:17
Now it's time for everyone's favourite party game; 'Where's Tai's clothing at!'
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Blackjoker on 16 Jun 2010, 01:25
I love Hanners line, and might be interested in a shirt with such commentary.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 16 Jun 2010, 01:29
My favorite game here is rather "What is Tuitsuros Avatar ?"  :-D :-P :angel:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 16 Jun 2010, 01:34
My favorite game here is rather "What is Tuitsuros Avatar ?"  :-D :-P :angel:

It's a freaking international conspiracy, man! 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: kent_eh on 16 Jun 2010, 01:36
The things that bother Hanners are starting to shift.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Oerdin on 16 Jun 2010, 01:36
We haven't seen Steve in a while.  I wonder why they had a party and didn't invite Steve (or maybe they did but he couldn't make it, I guess)?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 16 Jun 2010, 01:39
From the look on her face, I think that Marigold is starting to realise that all sexual attention isn't good.

We haven't seen Steve in a while.  I wonder why they had a party and didn't invite Steve (or maybe they did but he couldn't make it, I guess)?

He might simply be late?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 16 Jun 2010, 02:01
We haven't seen Steve in a while.  I wonder why they had a party and didn't invite Steve (or maybe they did but he couldn't make it, I guess)?

I wondered that also. Maybe in all the detail Jeph simply forgot (since Steve rarely appears now anyway) or he decided not to include him since the scene was already difficult to draw?
I hope someone comments about him during the party.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 16 Jun 2010, 02:23
From the look on her face, I think that Marigold is starting to realise that all sexual attention isn't good.

We haven't seen Steve in a while.  I wonder why they had a party and didn't invite Steve (or maybe they did but he couldn't make it, I guess)?

He might simply be late?
Or "busy" with Cosette?
He's exactly the kind of dude who would pass up a party in favour of a roll in the hay...
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Odin on 16 Jun 2010, 02:52
I really dont get the reaction of some people here.

Marigold never did anything vile.

Yeah she lack social skills, obviously, but she is not evil.

She was interested in a boy, desparate even, and got rejected. Now she found out the boy was already interested in another girl. So there was nothing wrong with her, after all, and no reason for her self doubts.

She still likes that guy, though, and wishes he's happy so she can move on.

I consider that all fairly natural.

And being a "nice guy" myself, I definitely never uttered the line "you better treat her right". Thats something a father or brother would state. Nice guys in sad love rather suffer through the pain of seeing their love interest treated badly and dream of treating the girl well if she only would be interested in them instead of that asshole. But nooo they never say anything.


Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Jun 2010, 02:53
He's exactly the kind of dude who would pass up a party in favour of a roll in the hay...

He'd [ur=http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=300l]fit in both[/url].
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 16 Jun 2010, 02:54
He's exactly the kind of dude who would pass up a party in favour of a roll in the hay...
Are there people who wouldnt ?

Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Oh thank you !

That actually gives me previously unknown powers.

For nobody ever thought of me as creepy before. :D
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 16 Jun 2010, 03:01
Also, whether or not she is genuinely happy about FayeXAngus, I'm not sure we'd know unless we hear her tell Momo that.

Of course she's not HAPPY about it. That doesn't mean she can't wish them well anyway, because regardless of whether she's happy (and perhaps accepting that she can't be in this case), she wants them to be. Is that really such an unusual concept? I know very few people in real life who actually operate on the motivation of "I'm not happy, so I'm going to try and ruin other people's chance at happiness." Happily.


I meant that more in the larger context of my post. What I didn't explicitly say was that, if Marigold is not genuinely feeling better about the situation, she may be subconsciously trying to underhandedly chase Faye away from Angus.
If she is feeling better, that doesn't necessarily mean she's happy about it, but it does mean she's probably not being unknowingly sneaky like she was with Angus.

That's all I was trying to say.  :-)

Ah. I could see her subconsciously undermining it, but I think what E-Carl posted is the best take on the situation. Personally, I think that:

a) she's just trying to make sure things are ok between them (not actually "matchmaking," that would require far more social cachet, and anyway they don't need it)

b) she's just trying to figure out how these "normal relationships" work. Angus didn't like her but he likes Faye and Faye likes him back and yet they're fighting?  This is all confusing for Marigold, who doesn't read social cues well, so she's just asking Faye for clarification for her own education, basically.

Of course what may happen now is that Marigold will go up to the next boy she finds remotely attractive and stat up a fight with him, because she'll think this is how it works.  Or she'll remember Dale and think that he must have been flirting her and must like her, and hijinks will ensue.

Or Sven. :-p This is how badboy fixations get started, you know! "I thought Angus liked me because he was so nice to me, but it turned out he did not!  He really likes Faye, whom he argues with all the time! So if a boy likes you, he isn't nice to you, he's mean to you!"
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 16 Jun 2010, 03:02

That actually gives me previously unknown powers.

For nobody ever thought of me as creepy before. :D

Oh, trust me, I did.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Akima on 16 Jun 2010, 03:05
The "Sucker Rule" is of universal application. If you can't work out who's going to have to work overtime... If you can't work out who's going to get stuck with the bill...

I was confused by yesterday's strip, echoing Faye's final remark: "Wait, what the hell was that about?" I hope nobody's match-making, because you know what happens when people play with matches...
(http://carbolicsoap.com/images/NEWPICTURES/misc/ship.jpg)

Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Yeah... Pretty much. In the same way, anyone who describes themselves as "a good person", or even "not a bad person", is someone to regard with intense suspicion.



Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 16 Jun 2010, 03:19
He's exactly the kind of dude who would pass up a party in favour of a roll in the hay...

He'd fit in both (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=300).

He didn't arrive with the others to that party, either.

However, Cosette could have objected, killed him, etc.  Cosette gives me the creeps!

I think that Steve and Ellen were a good match.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Arancaytar on 16 Jun 2010, 04:08
Shocked expressions on Dora and Marten's face as they find Tai and Marigold making out in the same room as Faye and Angus are.

You mean we won't see shocked expressions? Or all of that?

Well, no one seems to be particularly shocked.

Well, Marigold looks uncomfortable. (Though Tai would disagree on that.)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 16 Jun 2010, 04:38
Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Yeah... Pretty much. In the same way, anyone who describes themselves as "a good person", or even "not a bad person", is someone to regard with intense suspicion.
Most people would state that.

Tada ! And there goes "being creepy" being something special.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 16 Jun 2010, 04:39
Cosette gives me the creeps!
Um. :-o
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 16 Jun 2010, 04:40

That actually gives me previously unknown powers.

For nobody ever thought of me as creepy before. :D

Oh, trust me, I did.
Cool, how did I manage that ?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 16 Jun 2010, 05:14
Well, Marigold looks uncomfortable. (Though Tai would disagree on that.)

She looks more exasperated to me, but I may be mistaken. 

but why is Hanners staring at Tai's crotch?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Jun 2010, 05:37
Tai's "What're you, my mom?" recalls this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=776).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Jun 2010, 05:46
"It bothers me that I'm becoming inured to this."

Quote. Of. The. Year.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Somebody on 16 Jun 2010, 06:20
but why is Hanners staring at Tai's crotch?
She's trying to reure herself. It ain't workin'.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 16 Jun 2010, 06:39
Cosette gives me the creeps!
Um. :-o

I take it you're shocked that I find her creepy?  I refer you to the evidence:

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1551 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1551) (last panel)
Why invite someone up when your face shows that you're not that sort of mood?

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1551 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1547) (panels 2-6)
A strong reaction for a friend saying that she should be careful.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1430 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1430) (last panel)
A strong reaction from just a photo.

Ps.
Thank you, jw, for the link to an episode guide.

Tai's "What're you, my mom?" recalls this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=776).

But where would Dora keep her?  ;-)  
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Jun 2010, 07:01
Ps.
Thank you, jw, for the link to an episode guide.
You're quite welcome. ;)

Tai's "What're you, my mom?" recalls this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=776).
But where would Dora keep her?  ;-)  
...In the closet?  :-D :angel:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Dliessmgg on 16 Jun 2010, 07:04
Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Is there a difference between nice guy and "Nice Guy" I haven't heard of? Otherwise, facepalm.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Sorflakne on 16 Jun 2010, 07:13
Pants?  Only suckers wear pants at a party.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Moxie on 16 Jun 2010, 07:23
Gee, Tai, maybe this is why Marten and the gang don't invite you out with them...as they are past the college-wheee-party-drinking-age, and generally seem to be able to control themselves over it, perhaps they just don't wanna deal with taking care of you along with your drunken, pantless advances....
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 16 Jun 2010, 08:36

That actually gives me previously unknown powers.

For nobody ever thought of me as creepy before. :D

Oh, trust me, I did.
Cool, how did I manage that ?

You ideas about women and sex are messed up, dude. You said you WANTED a woman who'd threaten to kill you if you ever broke up with her or something, and that this was the kind of "commitment" you were willing to offer as well, and you seemed to consider that romantic. That's not "commitment" or love, that's insecurity and codependency with a strong side of psycho.

You have a madonna/whore complex where if a woman has been sexually active, you consider her "spoiled" for your affections.  You yourself have not been very successful romantically, and you explain that by alternately putting some women on a pedestal, and dismissing the rest as sluts, and having really weird ideas of how both men and women operate.  And by the way, putting a woman on a pedestal is one of the creepiest things a guy can do to a girl--women don't want to be regarded as some kind of wonderful worshiped luminous angels, we want to be seen as people, no better and no worse than anyone else. Putting one on a pedestal is not unlike putting her in cage.  I can't even describe to you how uncomfortable it feels to be talking to a guy who's obviously thinking of you as some kind of image of perfection--and how much it ruins any chance at actually establishing real mutual intimacy.

It also kind of feels like, due to all the buildup, if you start up a relationship anytime soon, you're going to overwhelm and devour the poor lady with your pent-up affections at the same time as being extremely self-abasing, and it's not gonna be healthy.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 16 Jun 2010, 08:55
Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Is there a difference between nice guy and "Nice Guy" I haven't heard of? Otherwise, facepalm.

Yes. People who just happen to be nice usually don't need to declare it or profess themselves as such. "Nice Guys" are a particular breed of men (and women too, sometimes!) who haven't been successful romantically, but are certain that they are better than "those jerks" that women keep dating instead, and blame all their romantic problems on women and the world and refuse to look at how they might in fact not be someone a woman wants to date. They are often bitter and self-pitying and can be creepy and manipulative: a patented "nice guy" move is to make friends with a woman he's interested in, never tell her he's interested, and just kind of hang around in the hopes of her eventually reciprocating, all the time complaining how she keeps dating jerks and doesn't see the "nice guy"right under her nose, when the only reason he's friends with her is that he wants to get into her pants.  He might eventually dismiss her as just "one of those bitches" for the crime of taking him at his word about the whole "friends" thing.  Or else he'll just hang around moping forever.

Even when he really doesn't do anything worse that try way too hard to please, he still doesn't get that subsuming all his desires and basically making himself a doormat for a woman is (rightly!) not an attractive quality, and it's not so much that the woman won't date him because he's nice as...well... would it be appealing to you to date someone who has no personality of their own? It's discomforting when someone never asserts any of their own wishes or preferences and just does anything to please you--not least of all because then he's not actually sharing in any of your interests but just putting up with them because of his intense need to be liked/get into your pants.

Here's the website that documents this phenomenon best:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

Here's a website by a self-proclaimed "nice guy"all about how he really hates women:
http://www.the-niceguy.com/articles/Me.html

Here's a comic that I swear should be a satire, but the website for it is entirely sincere... the author genuinely believes his main character to be a poor, downtrodden, great guy who just "can't get the girl."  

http://www.theniceguycomic.com/strips-thebword.htm

notice how in the very first comic, the girl he meets and starts talking to at the coffee shop is apparently evil and insensitive because she happens to have a boyfriend. And the guy, although pretending to be super nice and everything, immediately tunes out of the conversation as soon as he hears that.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 16 Jun 2010, 08:55
The ultimate reason Hanners is "becoming inured to this": http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1611

And all you TaiGold shippers, panel 4, that's not mild annoyance at having a pantsless microdyke draping a leg across your lap. That's severe heterosexual embarrassment. It would take more inurement than all of the characters have left in their natural lifetimes for Marigirl to get over that kind of repulsion and to make TaiGold shippers' dreams come true.

And in the vein of "Where is <character name here>'s <side> hand in panel <panel number here>???" Marigold/left/4
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 16 Jun 2010, 09:23
but why is Hanners staring at Tai's crotch?
She's trying to reure herself. It ain't workin'.
Actually, its because she likes looking at Tai's crotch. The thing she's becoming inured to, much to her chagrin, is Tai flirting with other girls, in spite of their impending nuptials (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1612). :P
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 16 Jun 2010, 09:53
Cosette gives me the creeps!
Um. :-o

I take it you're shocked that I find her creepy?  I refer you to the evidence:

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1551 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1551) (last panel)
Why invite someone up when your face shows that you're not that sort of mood?

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1551 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1547) (panels 2-6)
A strong reaction for a friend saying that she should be careful.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1430 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1430) (last panel)
A strong reaction from just a photo. 

None of that's actually "creepy", it's "haven't had a guy in a while". Big diff.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 16 Jun 2010, 12:39
Well, on the plus side, at least Tai hasn't gotten to the point where she's showing the rest of the party her hood piercing -- she's one layer away, but Momma Dora seems to be putting a stop to things.  Worst case scenario might be if drunk Tai buried her face in Marigold's cleavage and then threw up.  -_-  Hopefully things won't go that far, or get that messy.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2010, 13:01
JackFaerie,

Is Marten a creepy bastard?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 16 Jun 2010, 14:16
Sorry folks, I'm on my mobile so can't quote.

CEO, even for someone who's desperate, the last two are extreme. As for inviting someone up when someone's upset you...

Cold, Marten didn't put his opinions on hold to agree with Faye. He didn't befriend her just to be with her. He was always a true friend first.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jasononline on 16 Jun 2010, 14:50
Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Is there a difference between nice guy and "Nice Guy" I haven't heard of? Otherwise, facepalm.

Yes. People who just happen to be nice usually don't need to declare it or profess themselves as such. "Nice Guys" are a particular breed of men (and women too, sometimes!) who haven't been successful romantically, but are certain that they are better than "those jerks" that women keep dating instead, and blame all their romantic problems on women and the world and refuse to look at how they might in fact not be someone a woman wants to date. They are often bitter and self-pitying and can be creepy and manipulative: a patented "nice guy" move is to make friends with a woman he's interested in, never tell her he's interested, and just kind of hang around in the hopes of her eventually reciprocating, all the time complaining how she keeps dating jerks and doesn't see the "nice guy"right under her nose, when the only reason he's friends with her is that he wants to get into her pants.  He might eventually dismiss her as just "one of those bitches" for the crime of taking him at his word about the whole "friends" thing.  Or else he'll just hang around moping forever.

Even when he really doesn't do anything worse that try way too hard to please, he still doesn't get that subsuming all his desires and basically making himself a doormat for a woman is (rightly!) not an attractive quality, and it's not so much that the woman won't date him because he's nice as...well... would it be appealing to you to date someone who has no personality of their own? It's discomforting when someone never asserts any of their own wishes or preferences and just does anything to please you--not least of all because then he's not actually sharing in any of your interests but just putting up with them because of his intense need to be liked/get into your pants.

Here's the website that documents this phenomenon best:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

Here's a website by a self-proclaimed "nice guy"all about how he really hates women:
http://www.the-niceguy.com/articles/Me.html

Here's a comic that I swear should be a satire, but the website for it is entirely sincere... the author genuinely believes his main character to be a poor, downtrodden, great guy who just "can't get the girl."  

http://www.theniceguycomic.com/strips-thebword.htm

notice how in the very first comic, the girl he meets and starts talking to at the coffee shop is apparently evil and insensitive because she happens to have a boyfriend. And the guy, although pretending to be super nice and everything, immediately tunes out of the conversation as soon as he hears that.

Are you Yaoi Huntress Earth on The Bad Webcomics Wiki?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 16 Jun 2010, 15:52
You know, you could have posted that without quoting the entire tree, or even most of the last post in that tree.
Or, heck, you could have asked via PM and also explained yourself some so maybe you wouldn't come across as a bit creepy stalker-ish too. :|
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 16 Jun 2010, 16:02
Cold, Marten didn't put his opinions on hold to agree with Faye. He didn't befriend her just to be with her. He was always a true friend first.

He also didn't hide his romantic feelings for Faye, he did not allow them to develop at her request, nor put his love life on hold waiting for her to get over her issues.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Kugai on 16 Jun 2010, 16:22
Why is it I never get invited to parties like that?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 16 Jun 2010, 17:27
"'Cause nobody likes ya, Monkey-Boy!"
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Nightson on 16 Jun 2010, 17:35
Nice Guy MO - http://xkcd.com/513/


And I know, I used to be one of them.  I spent about four years doing the nice guy routine.  I was better then quite a few, I was not as insecure as most, I was fairly upfront about how I felt, I didn't have any sort of .  But I was still thinking of myself as the nice guy who deserved the girl who did no wrong, who stuck her up on a pedestal, caved into anything she desired.

And it ended badly, it ended because she cut off contact (because she would often totally cut friends out of her life for trivial things, she cut off contact with me because I asked her not to delete pictures off my cellphone without so much as a word to me), and my saving grace at least is that I was able to look back over those years of my life and see what I was doing wrong.  

And if I have another saving grace, I can change.  And so I did.  I didn't stop being nice, not at all, but I stopped being the nice guy.  And suddenly I could have functional romantic relationships.  And you know, being a nice guy wasn't anything inherent in me, it was a trap I fell into because I absorbed ideas of how relationships should work without bothering to think about them or search out other opinions.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2010, 17:47
He also didn't hide his romantic feelings for Faye, he did not allow them to develop at her request, nor put his love life on hold waiting for her to get over her issues.

After 500 strips she had to ask whether he had "feelings" for her, and he went on only one date that whole time.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 16 Jun 2010, 18:12
She didn't "have to ask,"  she knew, and she asked him to openly state what his feelings where, to get it on the record. She wasn't seeing anybody either, and both of them knew that if the other wanted to, they could explore their relationship. They mutually agreed (even if it was an unspoken agreement) that they should take things slow, and when Faye finally decided to steer away from a romantic relationship, Marten (nearly immediately) explored other romantic interests.

Definitely not "Nice Guy"tm behavior.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Jun 2010, 18:38
"HE" explored other relationships?

I beg to differ. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=564)

EDIT: Marten would have moped on incessantly had Dora not "kissed the boy." Heck, he was doing it right before she kissed him!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 16 Jun 2010, 18:53
I didn't say he was assertive, I just said he wasn't a "Nice Guy"tm.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2010, 19:06
There was one talk about what Faye needed (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=350) but I would argue that she was too deliberately ambiguous (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=79) to have had an unspoken agreement.

I don't think Marten is a creepy bastard, and I put him forward as an example of a Nice Guy who doesn't push and is a genuine friend despite considering lusting after her in secret as early as strip 4.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Nodaisho on 16 Jun 2010, 19:13
I didn't say he was assertive, I just said he wasn't a "Nice Gut"tm.
Of course he isn't, he is ridiculously skinny. No gut at all.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 16 Jun 2010, 20:14
I didn't say he was assertive, I just said he wasn't a "Nice Gut"tm.
Of course he isn't, he is ridiculously skinny. No gut at all.

*Looks left.*
*Looks right.*
*Mutters* Motherfucker
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 16 Jun 2010, 20:16
JackFaerie,

Is Marten a creepy bastard?

Nope. I'm with akronnick. He flirted with her from the start, and it was always obvious he was interested. When she told him she didn't want him to "try anything" but just wanted a friend, he respected that--by which I mean, he did not try to push her into anything, AND he really was fine with being her friend, whether anything worked out between them later or not.  He might have hoped he'd have a chance with her later, but his friendship with her was not based on that--as shown by the fact that he continued to be friends with her both after she rejected him, and after he got his own girlfriend.

It was also a different situation because she TOLD him not to make a move on her. He wasn't just hanging around while she was available or dating other guys and waiting for her to notice him.  Having unrequited feelings or hoping that someone will eventually give you a chance isn't creepy all in itself--it's the other stuff that makes it so.

Read those Nice Guy comics. Watch how the Nice Guy treats women--and how they're only valuable to him so long as they're potential romantic partners, and how he appears to consider conversation with them a waste of time if it later turns out they're taken (ie, he was faking interest in the conversation in the hopes of getting somewhere with them, rather than interacting with them as people whose company might be interesting for what it is).  Note how when his "friend" he's "in love with" talks about her troubles with her boyfriend, (http://www.theniceguycomic.com/strips-wineandpoody.htm) he pretends to be all sympathetic and comforting while thinking that from what she's saying, he's sure the guy must be cheating on her, etc. If he were a real friend, he'd tell her that, because he would be watching out for her best interests--instead, he just tells her what she wants to hear because he doesn't actually care about her best interests, but rather remaining in her good graces.  That's the stuff that makes the kind of Nice Guy we're talking about.


Oh, and I'm not whoever on that other forum, sorry. :-)

EDIT: It's the fact that Marten IS a genuine friend, who did NOT have ulterior motives for the friendship, that makes him not a Nice Guy(tm). And the fact that his lusting was only in secret because Faye specifically told him she was not available for that. You can't turn off your emotions or physical attraction, that's not the point.

Also, I wanna say, I totally used to be that girl who'd hang around a boy hoping he'd notice her eventually in high school (although at least in my case, I did enjoy their company simply for what it was). And at one point, this guy I secretly liked told me that while he had been interested in me when we first met, since I didn't seem interested back at the time, he wasn't anymore, and he started dating another friend of mine.  And I had this thought that even then I felt was manipulative and horrible (especially to my friend) that I'd be the Nice Girl. That I'd stick around being his close friend, listening to his girl problems, being the one he came to for advice, and eventually... eventually, he'd realize. He'd see when his relationship with my friend ran its course that I was always there for him, I was the one who understood him, the one he trusted more than anyone else, etc etc etc....

And then I shook myself and told myself that was fucking creepy, and snapped out of it, and managed to move on. And started asking boys out.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 16 Jun 2010, 22:17
Nice guys are creeps, so the girls go out with the bad boys who treat them like dirt.  But at least they're not going out with creeps!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 16 Jun 2010, 22:18
OK, I'm sure I'm just being obtuse, but: Marigold knows WHAT?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Moxie on 16 Jun 2010, 22:21
Marigold knows about Faye and Angus.


Also, wow. Marigold couldn't actually say "goodbye"? I mean, maybe she did to Marten and Dora and all, and we just didn't see it, but saying nothing to Faye? I didn't really think anything much of her conversation before, but not I am wondering if Marigold is trying to be sneaky somehow.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 16 Jun 2010, 22:22
Marigold knows about The Game, and Faye (and you) just lost.








Faye knows that Marigold knows that Faye wants to know all about getting to know Angus, in the Biblical sense.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: helloandgoodbye on 16 Jun 2010, 22:28
Marigold knows about Faye and Angus.


Also, wow. Marigold couldn't actually say "goodbye"? I mean, maybe she did to Marten and Dora and all, and we just didn't see it, but saying nothing to Faye? I didn't really think anything much of her conversation before, but not I am wondering if Marigold is trying to be sneaky somehow.

  I was a little peeved by that too.  I'm kind of wondering if she's trying to make Faye uncomfortable.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2010, 22:45
Did Faye miss Marigirl fleeing the building upon learning that Faye and Angus were a Something Or Other? Did Faye not know that Marigirl was aware of the nascent relationship?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Blackjoker on 16 Jun 2010, 22:46
I don't know why, but when I read Hannelores comment about how she would check the washing machine for dishes I heard her saying it in the same tone of "It worries me I'm becoming inured to this"
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: TAG on 16 Jun 2010, 23:02
Did Faye miss Marigirl fleeing the building upon learning that Faye and Angus were a Something Or Other? Did Faye not know that Marigirl was aware of the nascent relationship?

Faye was in Time Out at the time.  I guess no one filled her (or Angus) in for some reason.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: ecstaticjoy on 16 Jun 2010, 23:03
I don't know why, but when I read Hannelores comment about how she would check the washing machine for dishes I heard her saying it in the same tone of "It worries me I'm becoming inured to this"

lol, I'm glad you said something. I wouldn't have heard it otherwise.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Moxie on 16 Jun 2010, 23:13
Did Faye miss Marigirl fleeing the building upon learning that Faye and Angus were a Something Or Other? Did Faye not know that Marigirl was aware of the nascent relationship?
Faye was in Time Out at the time.  I guess no one filled her (or Angus) in for some reason.

Panel 2 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1682)



Also, wow. Marigold couldn't actually say "goodbye"? I mean, maybe she did to Marten and Dora and all, and we just didn't see it, but saying nothing to Faye? I didn't really think anything much of her conversation before, but not I am wondering if Marigold is trying to be sneaky somehow.
I was a little peeved by that too.  I'm kind of wondering if she's trying to make Faye uncomfortable.

Yeah, looking at it again, it seems intentional, but I can't really figure out why Marigold would do that. Intentionally, I mean. I really was going with the theory that her talk with Faye while in the kitchen was a bit more of a learning/understanding experience. Unless she somehow thinks from that that Faye is being mean to Angus and Therefore Doesn't Deserve Him, Marigold's actions seem odd.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Jun 2010, 23:17
Faye knows that Marigold knows that Faye wants to know all about getting to know Angus, in the Biblical sense.

Did anyone else get a headache parsing this? 

I think it won an internet, if not the Game. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 16 Jun 2010, 23:46
Nice guys are creeps, so the girls go out with the bad boys who treat them like dirt.  But at least they're not going out with creeps!

If in your world the only kinds of men in existence are clingy creepy doublefaced "nice guys" and "bad boys," sure.  I will say this: at least the bad boys are fun sometimes.

Marigold's goodbye was pretty odd, yeah.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 17 Jun 2010, 00:13
Nice guys are creeps, so the girls go out with the bad boys who treat them like dirt.  But at least they're not going out with creeps!
Until the nice guys learn, but its a bit hard to learn. Born a softie, always a softie.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 17 Jun 2010, 00:16
JackFaerie,

Is Marten a creepy bastard?
Yes, definitely. He's a typical example of a nice guy. I immediately identified with him when the comic started.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Kugai on 17 Jun 2010, 00:19
Knowledge is power.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 17 Jun 2010, 03:30
Quote from: Faye
Oh shit she knows

DUN DUN DUN™
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 17 Jun 2010, 03:31
There was one talk about what Faye needed (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=350) but I would argue that she was too deliberately ambiguous (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=79) to have had an unspoken agreement.

Don't forget the promise (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=309).

* * *

Daily time together for Faye and Angus.  It's a small step but it looks like Fangus is going to last a while.

<< inner shipper screaming with delight
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 17 Jun 2010, 04:14
Knowledge is power.

I thought it was "Knowing is half the battle."
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 17 Jun 2010, 06:33
Knowledge is power.
I thought it was "Knowing is half the battle."
Well yes, power's no good without a transducer; that's the other half of the battle.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Jun 2010, 07:04
Marigold knows about Faye and Angus.

Also, wow. Marigold couldn't actually say "goodbye"? I mean, maybe she did to Marten and Dora and all, and we just didn't see it, but saying nothing to Faye? I didn't really think anything much of her conversation before, but not I am wondering if Marigold is trying to be sneaky somehow.

  I was a little peeved by that too.  I'm kind of wondering if she's trying to make Faye uncomfortable.

Or, more like Ms. Self-unaware has no idea what to say to her.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Lyrical on 17 Jun 2010, 07:49
Nice guys are creeps, so the girls go out with the bad boys who treat them like dirt.  But at least they're not going out with creeps!
If in your world the only kinds of men in existence are clingy creepy doublefaced "nice guys" and "bad boys," sure.  I will say this: at least the bad boys are fun sometimes.

I'd say that Marten was a bit of a doormat and a bit desperate, but he didn't pretend to be someone's friend in hopes of getting to sleep with them.  He befriended women and genuinely cared about them, which is different.  Someone who says, "If you don't date me, you'll date an abusive jerk" isn't actually nice, he's passive-aggressive.  It comes across to me as "If you don't date me, I hope you'll be punished and treated like dirt by the next guy you date."  Very ugly, and it says a lot about their views on both men and women.

I've dated a few guys who are on the slightly shy, geeky  side, who I still think are wonderful people even though we split up for various reasons.  They didn't feel the universe owed them a hot, geeky girlfriend who does yoga and gymnastics, but wound up with me anyway. :wink:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 17 Jun 2010, 10:20
Marigold knows about Faye and Angus.

Also, wow. Marigold couldn't actually say "goodbye"? I mean, maybe she did to Marten and Dora and all, and we just didn't see it, but saying nothing to Faye? I didn't really think anything much of her conversation before, but not I am wondering if Marigold is trying to be sneaky somehow.

  I was a little peeved by that too.  I'm kind of wondering if she's trying to make Faye uncomfortable.

Or, more like Ms. Self-unaware has no idea what to say to her.

I think that's closer to the mark, yeah.  Though I suppose this could be Marigold's unspoken "I cede the field to you" gesture, which of course doesn't occur to her to need to explain.

So I guess next week we'll see Angus' eventual "oh shit" epiphany.   :-D
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Odin on 17 Jun 2010, 12:20
Marigold knows about Faye and Angus.

Also, wow. Marigold couldn't actually say "goodbye"? I mean, maybe she did to Marten and Dora and all, and we just didn't see it, but saying nothing to Faye? I didn't really think anything much of her conversation before, but not I am wondering if Marigold is trying to be sneaky somehow.

  I was a little peeved by that too.  I'm kind of wondering if she's trying to make Faye uncomfortable.

Or, more like Ms. Self-unaware has no idea what to say to her.

I think that's closer to the mark, yeah.  Though I suppose this could be Marigold's unspoken "I cede the field to you" gesture, which of course doesn't occur to her to need to explain.

So I guess next week we'll see Angus' eventual "oh shit" epiphany.   :-D

The problem with this theory is that she has no field to cede. She already lost and such a gesture would be so pathetic as to cross over into unintentional hilarity.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 17 Jun 2010, 13:39
If knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss, then power is not bliss. No wonder everyone is D.C. is pissed off 24/7/365.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Jander on 17 Jun 2010, 15:11
I didn't know that there aren't actually any nice guys out there, and that even if you are one, and everyone thinks you are, if you proclaim yourself to be one that gets you in the creepy horrible "Nice Guy" moniker and everyone suddenly thinks you are a douche.  Yeah someone who sits there all the time being woe is me, they want a nice guy why not me, that's a recipe for disaster.  But just saying that you are one if it comes up it shouldn't come with a bad connotation.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: The Duke on 17 Jun 2010, 16:48
I agree.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Moxie on 17 Jun 2010, 17:42
There does seem to be a difference between, "Yeah, I think I'm a pretty decent guy," and "Hey, I'm practically the nicest guy in the world, how do you not see it?" though.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Jun 2010, 18:34
If knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss, then power is not bliss. No wonder everyone is D.C. is pissed off 24/7/365.

I love it. I may need to add this to my quote collection.


EDIT: Oh, and my wife thinks I'm a nice guy, so there. :P
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: zagraf on 17 Jun 2010, 19:58
Oh hey, Sweet-Tits in colour. A first, if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jasononline on 17 Jun 2010, 20:58
If knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss, then power is not bliss. No wonder everyone is D.C. is pissed off 24/7/365.

That assumes that only ignorance is bliss, only knowledge is power, and that knowledge and ignorance are mutually exclusive
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Kugai on 17 Jun 2010, 22:24
There is no spoon
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 18 Jun 2010, 00:34
OK, I thought I was just being obtuse. Had to look back through the past few comics to realize Faye and Angus weren't in the room when Tai dropped the grenade in the room.

As for all the "she couldn't say goodbye?" people: SHE DID SAY GOODBYE. A handshake is a perfectly acceptable farewell, whether accompanied by words or not. And Mari isn't exactly fast on her verbal feet; anything she did say probably would've dug a hole. "Bye Faye. Thanks for not fucking Angus in front of everyone. I MEAN I HAD A NICE YOU'RE A BITCH! I MEAN I SAW HIM FIRST! I MEAN.....oh, fuck. *runs from the room*" She figured, best to just shake and leave before she does or says something that makes Tai's pants-on-the-ground (or in the dishwasher, or whereever) escapade look normal.

And Tai might have a problem, or she just might be a bad drunk. There's a difference between being an alcoholic, and being someone who can function without booze, but who functions badly with booze. Let's not ship QC's official minidyke off to AA just yet.

In closing: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Here's hoping you get a rocket up your ass in the good way. (If you swing that way.)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 18 Jun 2010, 01:35
This thread is just so weird.

I didn't know that there aren't actually any nice guys out there, and that even if you are one, and everyone thinks you are, if you proclaim yourself to be one that gets you in the creepy horrible "Nice Guy" moniker and everyone suddenly thinks you are a douche.  Yeah someone who sits there all the time being woe is me, they want a nice guy why not me, that's a recipe for disaster.  But just saying that you are one if it comes up it shouldn't come with a bad connotation.
From what I read in this thread, I'm utterly confused what people think a nice guy is. Marten and Angus are typical nice guys/sensible softies to me, while Steven and Sven are typical bad guys/insensible machos.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Akima on 18 Jun 2010, 02:38
But just saying that you are one if it comes up it shouldn't come with a bad connotation.
All proclamations of one's own personal virtue have a bad connotation. Self-righteousness is an extremely unattractive trait. In my experience, genuinely nice people let their actions speak for them. If someone, for example, proclaims their honesty, I check my purse.

As for the birthday strip... Um... I hope Sweet-Tits wears Nomex® panties.

Edit: Following the strip mod (What mod? We have always been at war with Eastasia!) my comment makes no sense.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Odin on 18 Jun 2010, 03:23
I didn't know that there aren't actually any nice guys out there, and that even if you are one, and everyone thinks you are, if you proclaim yourself to be one that gets you in the creepy horrible "Nice Guy" moniker and everyone suddenly thinks you are a douche.  Yeah someone who sits there all the time being woe is me, they want a nice guy why not me, that's a recipe for disaster.  But just saying that you are one if it comes up it shouldn't come with a bad connotation.

Read the fucking thread.

Anybody that self-identifies as a "Nice Guy" is a creepy bastard, without exception.
Is there a difference between nice guy and "Nice Guy" I haven't heard of? Otherwise, facepalm.

Yes. People who just happen to be nice usually don't need to declare it or profess themselves as such. "Nice Guys" are a particular breed of men (and women too, sometimes!) who haven't been successful romantically, but are certain that they are better than "those jerks" that women keep dating instead, and blame all their romantic problems on women and the world and refuse to look at how they might in fact not be someone a woman wants to date. They are often bitter and self-pitying and can be creepy and manipulative: a patented "nice guy" move is to make friends with a woman he's interested in, never tell her he's interested, and just kind of hang around in the hopes of her eventually reciprocating, all the time complaining how she keeps dating jerks and doesn't see the "nice guy"right under her nose, when the only reason he's friends with her is that he wants to get into her pants.  He might eventually dismiss her as just "one of those bitches" for the crime of taking him at his word about the whole "friends" thing.  Or else he'll just hang around moping forever.

Even when he really doesn't do anything worse that try way too hard to please, he still doesn't get that subsuming all his desires and basically making himself a doormat for a woman is (rightly!) not an attractive quality, and it's not so much that the woman won't date him because he's nice as...well... would it be appealing to you to date someone who has no personality of their own? It's discomforting when someone never asserts any of their own wishes or preferences and just does anything to please you--not least of all because then he's not actually sharing in any of your interests but just putting up with them because of his intense need to be liked/get into your pants.

Here's the website that documents this phenomenon best:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

Here's a website by a self-proclaimed "nice guy"all about how he really hates women:
http://www.the-niceguy.com/articles/Me.html

Here's a comic that I swear should be a satire, but the website for it is entirely sincere... the author genuinely believes his main character to be a poor, downtrodden, great guy who just "can't get the girl." 

http://www.theniceguycomic.com/strips-thebword.htm

notice how in the very first comic, the girl he meets and starts talking to at the coffee shop is apparently evil and insensitive because she happens to have a boyfriend. And the guy, although pretending to be super nice and everything, immediately tunes out of the conversation as soon as he hears that.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Lost Coastlines on 18 Jun 2010, 04:31
Nice guys are creeps, so the girls go out with the bad boys who treat them like dirt.  But at least they're not going out with creeps!

If in your world the only kinds of men in existence are clingy creepy doublefaced "nice guys" and "bad boys," sure.  I will say this: at least the bad boys are fun sometimes.


Well that is part of the problem with "Nice Guys," it's all binary.  There are passive-aggressive doormats like them and abusive jerks.  Even if the "Nice Guy's" object of affection has a very laid back boyfriend, the boyfriend was assertive enough to engage in the relationship in the first place.  There are always fights, and the "Nice Guy" always makes sure to be there for the girl.  Even if the girl was in the wrong, the "Nice Guy" now perceives the boyfriend as an abusive jerk.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Jun 2010, 06:38
Oh hey, Sweet-Tits in colour. A first, if I'm not mistaken.
You would be correct.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: NightOfTheLepus on 18 Jun 2010, 07:03
the re-appearance of Sweet Tits !



(and the countdown to Rule 34 begins....)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Somebody on 18 Jun 2010, 07:44
So how long did YB lock ST in with the Shame Orb to get her to do this?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 18 Jun 2010, 07:59
No idea, but I should think the shame orb is only acquiring more data at this point...
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 18 Jun 2010, 09:17
This thread is just so weird.

From what I read in this thread, I'm utterly confused what people think a nice guy is. Marten and Angus are typical nice guys/sensible softies to me, while Steven and Sven are typical bad guys/insensible machos.


There's a difference between a guy is nice and a "Nice Guy(tm)." Also, about the categorizations above: um. Your bias is showing. You just seem to think any guy who is fairly sexually successful is a bad guy, or what?

Marten is a nice guy and a sensitive softie, sure. Angus? Really? I like Angus, but he can totally be a jerk sometimes. He's shown himself to be unthinkingly insensitive in what he says to people plenty, he doesn't always take "no" for an answer, and he tends to be pretty self-centered. I would not call him a "sensitive nice guy."

Meanwhile, what makes Steve, of all people, a bad guy, except for the fact that he's "macho"? (How is that automatically bad?) Steve has never been a jerk that I can remember. He tends to rush into relationships, but that if anything makes him more of a softie--he falls for girls fast, and he falls hard, and he's pretty damn loyal.  

Sven used to be a typical bad guy, yeah. He is now pretty much exactly the same as Angus, as far as I see. Means well but can sometimes act like a jerk without intending to.  Also, he's closer to "metrosexual" than "macho."

Again, though: Steve? Typical bad guy?! Steve is probably the best person to date in this whole damn comic. I would reconsider how I judge people if I were you.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Jun 2010, 09:26
Apparantly, snubnose doesn't judge people. 

He categorizes them. 

Badly. 

Point is, being nice is not the same as acting nice.  And not acting nice doesn't make you "bad".  It's not all white hats and black hadlebar moustaches! 

Remember, there are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 18 Jun 2010, 09:36
It's also just... Steve! I really honestly cannot recall one seriously objectionable thing Steve has ever done in this comic! I mean, I'm sure he said something stupid to women once or twice, but in relationships, I think Marten has been more of a jerk than Steve has.  At least I can recall a few instances of where Dora was rightly annoyed at him.  But as for Steve...

He fell for Ellen, dated her, was a great boyfriend, then Ellen dumped him.

He was single for a while, met Meena, was really into her, she kept telling him it was no big deal that her ex lived with her, then she dumped him for said ex.

He went away and apparently had some kind of mutual fling with Russian spy lady.

Came back and met Cosette, was totally sweet and understanding and willing to put up with all her weirdness, and is now dating her.

Where is "typical bad guy/insensible macho" in any of this?!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mr_Rose on 18 Jun 2010, 10:25
Well, he doesn't respect other people's personal space much. Also he did blow up that island that one time, probably killing dozens of loyal minions in the process to boot.

But yeah, he's pretty all right when you think about it.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: brew on 18 Jun 2010, 10:48

At least I can recall a few instances of where Dora was rightly annoyed at him.

Which ones?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Nightson on 18 Jun 2010, 10:58
The only one I can recall off the top of my head was the whole telling Dora she was acting irrational when she was angry he didn't tell her about getting asked out.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: dj_soo on 18 Jun 2010, 11:10
i don't post here much, but this "nice guy" discussion has me pulling a bit of a facepalm.

As a former Nice Guy(tm) myself, i can understand how some people might be completely self-deluded into thinking that it's somehow chivalrous to be the manipulative doormat that most Nice Guys(tm) are but after growing out of that mentality (and trust me, it took a lot longer than I care to admit), hindsight has really shown how sad and pathetic I really was.

To be honest tho, like many things wrong with this world, I ultimately blame 80s romantic comedies.  I truly believe movies like When Harry Met Sally are to blame for a lot of my fucked up notions of romance, love, and relationships.

oh, on that note - Rick Milholland had a great take on the subject too

http://somethingpositive.net/sp02142004.shtml
http://somethingpositive.net/sp02152004.shtml

I'm sure this will also be ignored by some of the self-professed "nice guys" on here, but take it from me - you'll be much happier if you ditch that attitude, grow a spine, and just start being direct to women you're attracted to.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 18 Jun 2010, 11:45
It's also just... Steve! I really honestly cannot recall one seriously objectionable thing Steve has ever done in this comic! I mean, I'm sure he said something stupid to women once or twice, but in relationships, I think Marten has been more of a jerk than Steve has.  At least I can recall a few instances of where Dora was rightly annoyed at him.  But as for Steve...
[...]

Where is "typical bad guy/insensible macho" in any of this?!

Whilst you're right for the most part there have been one or two times when Steve has been a bit of a jerk:
Sara start (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=32), Sara end (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=94) and he confessed (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1639) (admittedly Martin successfully pleads mitigating factors in the last two panels).

Then again, nobody's perfect and we all have times when we act in ways we shouldn't.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 18 Jun 2010, 12:09
Eh.

1st case: I wouldn't call him a jerk there, especially not to Sara. Marten, maybe. But Marten also didn't have any sort of deep love for Sara, she was just a girl he thought was cute, and now he's learned she wasn't interested. Plus Steve effectively asked Marten if he minded in that strip. I'm sure had Marten objected, Steve would've kept his distance.  (Marten confronted him about his intentions before Steve had even come to a decision either way--he was just beginning to consider whether it was something he wanted to do--but I'm assuming "would Marten mind" was the main part of why he would even be weighing the options in the first place.)

2nd case: I don't think that makes him a bad guy at all. First of all, for all we know it was mutual. Not like a woman wants a relationship full of bad sex either.  Second of all, so... he went out with her and found out they were incompatible. That is exactly a reason people *should* break up. Sex is important in a relationship: satisfying sex strengthens a relationship, and unsatisfying sex weakens it (there's been studies!).  It's the same as if they broke up because they realized when hanging out, their conversation was awkward and never went anywhere.  Also, having been there, I wanna say that although someone unskilled at sex can get better with practice, if your styles just don't mesh like what Steve was describing... that can't be fixed, that's just two people not being right for each other and having different physical rhythms.

3rd case: True enough, although even if it's what he says he'd do, he's not yet done it. Also being Steve, he'd probably fall for her afterwards anyway.  (He doesn't know that Angus likes Faye in that comic, does he? I think if Steve liked another girl he'd behave like Angus did.)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 18 Jun 2010, 13:35
Oh hey, Sweet-Tits in colour. A first, if I'm not mistaken.
You would be correct.

Unless you count the strip where Faye scorns Angus out of CoD and someone who looks distinctly like Sweet Tits is in the background outside, having a cig.   :wink:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: The Duke on 18 Jun 2010, 13:36
There is no spoon

addendum: the cake is a lie
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Jun 2010, 14:13
Steve has attempted anal sex without permission (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=578).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: J on 18 Jun 2010, 14:20
that strip is humorously ambiguous on the subject.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Dliessmgg on 18 Jun 2010, 14:24
There is no spoon

addendum: the cake is a lie

But the pie is real.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 18 Jun 2010, 15:05
Steve has attempted anal sex without permission (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=578).

Hmm. If we take Ellen's word for it then yeah, that's a major example of douchebaggery.  However, that really is just as likely to be an accident as Steve being a jerk.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Jander on 18 Jun 2010, 15:19
I didn't know that there aren't actually any nice guys out there, and that even if you are one, and everyone thinks you are, if you proclaim yourself to be one that gets you in the creepy horrible "Nice Guy" moniker and everyone suddenly thinks you are a douche.  Yeah someone who sits there all the time being woe is me, they want a nice guy why not me, that's a recipe for disaster.  But just saying that you are one if it comes up it shouldn't come with a bad connotation.
Read the fucking thread.


Wow thanks!  I never would have thought of doing that!  I did in fact read the thread and it doesn't do anything to deter me from the thought that several posters see someone described as a nice guy and infer that as a bad thing.  I see that as silly, perhaps there should be a different nomenclature for "Nice Guy" as used here.  Nice guy isn't the only issue either, apparently if you call yourself a good person that means you aren't, or if you claim to be honest then you are really a liar or a thief.  No one should just take anyone's word regarding these things but to instantly make up your mind toward the bad connotation makes no sense to me. 

It makes me think about how someone can say "I'm not an alcoholic" and people will retort with "That's exactly what an alcoholic would say!" ignoring the fact that it is also what a non alcoholic would say.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: ndperfesser on 18 Jun 2010, 15:27
Looks like Sweet Tits nickname is Sweet Cheeks.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Jun 2010, 16:57
I think a good person would not have wished his girlfriend to contract a case of dolphin syphilis (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=713).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Jun 2010, 18:06
What's Marigold Up To?

Matchmaker, naturally.    - 20 (32.3%)
Monkey Wrench/Sabotaging relationship    - 4 (6.5%)
Hurting them both (Scheming Witch)    - 2 (3.2%)
Trying to see if you can program relationships.    - 11 (17.7%)
Secretly lusting after Tai.    - 2 (3.2%)
Secretly lusting after Dora.    - 1 (1.6%)
Making porridge with pornographic pancakes.    - 22 (35.5%)

Total Voters: 62
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 18 Jun 2010, 18:35
I seem to recall some salient information the Shame Orb divulged about Sweet Tits a little over 6 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1567) months ago which could be critical in this situation.

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 18 Jun 2010, 21:43
I think a good person would not have wished his girlfriend to contract a case of dolphin syphilis (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=713).

That was during the heat of a breaking-up-argument. You can't hold a person responsible for what is said during a breaking-up-argument.

Now if he actually gave her dolphin syphilis, that would be a douche move.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 19 Jun 2010, 08:04
Guys, guys!  Come on, we're all varying degees of good and bad.  It's the winning proportion that counts. 

Actually, what counts is the proportion that most people see.  Especially the people who know you best, the friends and loved ones. 

But we're talking about NiceGuysTM.  The ones who, consciously or not, misunderstand the dynamics of a relationship to the extent that they atempt emotional manipulation, and bitch when it fails.  The comics dj_soo posted (by the way, his name's Randy, like our favorite bandicot, not Rick) are a good examplar of the type, and I'm sure you can find many more everywhere else, including real life.  Whether or not snubnose is one is a good question.  I tend to think so, since he's routinely demonstrated an inability to think deeply enough about social interactions to really understand the concept.  Either that or he's one of the most sophisticated trolls I've ever seen...

All this adds a twist to "nice guys finish last!" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceGuysFinishLast), too! 

So, we'll see what next week brings.  I'm thinking Angus tries to have a post-party talk with Marigold about Faye, at the very least.  And Tai wakes up naked again... but where? 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: starkruzr on 19 Jun 2010, 12:31
a) Did we ever figure out who this is?  http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=721
b) Am I the only one who thinks Jeph WAAAAAY overreacted to YB launching the bottle rockets from ST's undies?
c) Am I the only one who finds the fact that question b can exist hilarious?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Jun 2010, 12:52
Note that Jeph has changed the Sweet-Tits comic (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1690) because "on consideration" he felt it was "kind of creepy and offensive".
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 19 Jun 2010, 12:55
a) Did we ever figure out who this is?  http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=721

You mean the VespAvenger (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=732) who was confronted by the team (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=743)?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 19 Jun 2010, 12:56
It was creepy and offensive.  That's what was funny!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 19 Jun 2010, 13:29
I'll be honest, the scorch marks on her panties and yelling bird handling a zippo were what made the original comic for me!

I hope somebody has a copy of it, and can post it so it can be enjoyed by future generations...

Self editing for fear of offending someone is really not a place I thought Jeph would ever go.  It's a bit of a disappointment, really.

Edit:  I wonder what someone said to him that made him do such a thing?  I mean, it was neither more creepy nor more offensive than most other YB/ST comics...
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 19 Jun 2010, 14:15
Oh, he probably got a letter from someone who's opinion actually mattered to him.

I actually have the original; but out of respect, I'm not going to post it anywhere.  I agree it's disappointing that he feels the need to censor himself, but at the same time it's his choice to do so. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Nightson on 19 Jun 2010, 16:40
Well I dunno.  Out of context, sure it's pretty bad, in context given yelling bird's nature it's pretty tame.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Binary on 19 Jun 2010, 16:52
I hate to rag on Jeph right after his milestone birthday, but... I think this act of self-censorship is unwarranted, and the start of a very slippery slope.

It is also a serious lapse in continuity for Yelling Bird.

Yelling Bird's behaviour in the original strip was much tamer than many of the activities he describes in the QC cast Twitter feed. What he did to Sweet Tits in the original is completely in character - mistreating somebody for his own perverse ends. His behaviour in the revised strip is totally out of character.

Jeph, if you're reading this, PLEASE stop beating yourself up over this one. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. Ask yourself, if QC fans were put off by your forays into the taboo and the scatological, would you have tens of thousands of loyal readers?



Remember, there are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
HAH! Nobody understands me!



There is no spoon
Then what the hell am I eating this cereal with?!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 19 Jun 2010, 17:26
Meh. I DID find it needlessly misogynistic and was pretty surprised Jeph would go there, but decided to let it pass as it's Yelling Bird.

However, I think those of you all bemoaning Jeph's decision are being contradictory. No one, that I saw on twitter anyway, complained about it. Thus I accept Jeph's explanation that he woke up and decided it made him uncomfortable to have that drawing up. Thus he removed it. All of you complaining about how he's betraying something or other by removing it? Are pretty much asking him to do something he feels uncomfortable with to please you guys.

But also, self-censoring is not necessarily and instantly evil. Sometimes it's a good thing. Personally, I am glad that he decided to change the comic (and there is a difference between the YB squawking about things and having those things represented).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Binary on 19 Jun 2010, 17:57
I didn't "ask Jeph to do something he feels uncomfortable with to please you guys." And he's a REAL PERSON with real feelings, so I'm not going to pick apart his motivations in this forum the way we do with the comic characters.

I simply wanted to say (and will repeat): "PLEASE stop beating yourself up over this one." Everything else I wrote was intended to explain why I feel that way.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Y on 19 Jun 2010, 18:49
It seems that misogyny is a popular word nowadays. But it almost never applies when it's used. Misogyny is hatred of women, and has nothing to do with sexual preferences and promiscuity. Sweet-Tits being submissive to YB doesn't imply that, even while she doesn't like it, she might get aroused by it or like it in some way, or have some need to be controlled. There is nothing wrong with that, except that maybe some religious zealots might not like it because it is something sexual that has nothing to do with reproducingand because they aren't getting any 

Same for Faye punching Angus (or Marten before). It's not because she hates males. As for the ST/YB comic(first one) it's a rule 34 thing, and to be honest I looked it up on Youtube to see vids of such thing. I did noticed the majority of the vids were about males that did this.(only found a single female doing it). The second YB/ST(edited one) doesn't make much physical sense to me, as it either the propulsion of the rocket would affect YB and pull him with or would get some kind of rebound effect.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 19 Jun 2010, 19:12
Personally, I blame Jackass the Movie.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: LeeC on 19 Jun 2010, 19:13
did I imagine the original friday comic or did it change?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jasononline on 19 Jun 2010, 21:38
Why does anyone care that Jeph changed the comic?  He didn't like a strip so he changed it, I don't really see what's the problem with that.  Self-censorship would be him changing it to avoid offending his readers; it seems more likely that he just didn't like it (he even said he found it a bit weird on his twitter before he posted it).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: kattyc on 19 Jun 2010, 21:42
Not really understanding what the comic was about (30 gun salute? Rule 34? ???), it did leave me with a bad taste, like I'd just watched someone being abused or something. It didn't appear that Sweet Tits was enjoying herself and it just seemed kind of wrong. But if someone would like to explain, I'd be much obliged.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 19 Jun 2010, 22:46
Nah, it was just a bird shooting bottle rockets out someone's asscrack.  Now it's less offensive, because it's someone shooting bottle rockets out of a bird's asscrack. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Beaten by Nuns on 19 Jun 2010, 23:17
Quote
Nah, it was just a bird shooting bottle rockets out someone's asscrack.  Now it's less offensive, because it's someone shooting bottle rockets out of a bird's asscrack.

Just let PETA find out and THEN it'll be offensive.  :roll:

Bottom line man, it's ok to make fun of every thing and every one, PERIOD! Since when is ANYTHING sacred these days anyhow? We live in a day and age where "Respect for the dead" means that it's ok to make fun of Cass Elliot for choking to death on a ham sandwich. But that's what a sense of humor is though - a sense of humor is the ability to find humor within something, regardless as to how morbid, sacrilegious, or just plain wrong something is - reaching inside and finding that one little quirk that brings a grin to your face. ANY subject can be made light of, ANY subject. Doesn't matter what it is. My advice to those people who like to complain about EVERY LITTLE THING is to just put on a damn smile, stop being so self righteous, get a grip, and join the rest of us who find enjoyment out of Jeph's hard work.

People that try to seperate what's alright to make fun of and what isn't are a bunch of asses. In reality, it's either everything or nothing at all - because once you put limits on one thing, you gotta put a limit on another to please some other asshole, and so on, and so on, and so on.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Jun 2010, 00:04
Limits are what enable society to exist; you can't just ditch them completely.  What  limits to have is another matter, and changes throughout history.

And FWIW, I found the original uncomfortable - though the replacement is tame, because it's a fixup rather than a carefully thought out image.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Mojo on 20 Jun 2010, 00:42
Alas, I wish I'd known it was going to be changed, I would have saved the original for poster(ior)ity.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 20 Jun 2010, 01:48
I seem to recall some salient information the Shame Orb divulged about Sweet Tits a little over 6 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1567) months ago which could be critical in this situation.

I suspect it is.  Maybe the Shame Orb caused YB to reign back his ideas?

* * *

I admit that I'm curious as to what prompted the change (i.e. what caused Jeph to change his mind).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 20 Jun 2010, 03:17
...I caught the change (and yes, I have the original, and no, I am not going to post it).

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Kharn on 20 Jun 2010, 06:20
I always thought the whole point of yelling bird was to be as offensive as possible.  Change it back.  :cry:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: LeeC on 20 Jun 2010, 08:17
Why does anyone care that Jeph changed the comic?  He didn't like a strip so he changed it, I don't really see what's the problem with that.  Self-censorship would be him changing it to avoid offending his readers; it seems more likely that he just didn't like it (he even said he found it a bit weird on his twitter before he posted it).
my comment had nothing to do with it, I just wanted to see if I was going crazy or not
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: steveh11 on 20 Jun 2010, 09:02
*I* definitely preferred the original, but it's not me that draws the comic, it's Jeph.  His comic, his rules...

Steve.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 20 Jun 2010, 10:30
I didn't "ask Jeph to do something he feels uncomfortable with to please you guys." And he's a REAL PERSON with real feelings, so I'm not going to pick apart his motivations in this forum the way we do with the comic characters.

I simply wanted to say (and will repeat): "PLEASE stop beating yourself up over this one." Everything else I wrote was intended to explain why I feel that way.

Seconded.  I was under the (apparantly false) impression that it was some tweets or other complaints that made him change it, not his own uneasiness.  Bu the fact is, the original came from his own conscious/subconscious/id/ego/whatever's in there, and it was funny.  Weird, yes;  Offensive, probably (to some), when isn't YB offensive?  But his instincts were fine.  By second guessing himself, it really lessened the strip. 

Although to be honest, if we never saw the original, would we be nearly as dissapointed with the revised version? 

I think not... it's still pretty funny, in a mild-grossout way.  Still not as funy as YB handling a Zippo, but when you put cloaca into the punchline, it helps. 

It's Jephs's strip, and if he's not comfortable with the original, that's his business.  But I will say that for most artists, second guessing your instincts can be a serious mistake.  So again, "PLEASE stop beating yourself up over this one."
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: evilbobthebob on 20 Jun 2010, 12:52
So, uh, I guess no one noticed the retweet of an apparent interview Jeph did on Naked News?

I will say now that I have not seen or looked for said interview  :-P
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 20 Jun 2010, 16:53
I, too, regret that Jeph is second-guessing himself. I do it all the time, and god only knows how much I detest that and wish like hell I could get over it. I know why I do it, but it doesn't help me stop it, and it does fuck-all to my creativity, such as it is, or isn't.

Damn. Doing it again.

Anyway, in that spirit…
Meh. I DID find it needlessly misogynistic and was pretty surprised Jeph would go there, but decided to let it pass as it's Yelling Bird.
So it would've been cool if it'd been, say, Steve, with Cosette lighting the fuse?
There is a difference between the YB squawking about things and having those things represented
Ah. So it's okay to write about something; just don't draw pictures of it.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: zagraf on 20 Jun 2010, 19:12
I respect Jeph's decision to alter his comics as he sees fit. That said, it's a little strange he should get qualms about the firecracker strip when he posts much, much more disgusting cartoons on his LJ (e.g. a dog ass-fucking David Willis, during Jeph's pretend-feud with him) and, more recently, on his Tumblr (e.g. a birthday card he did for a friend showing Sweet-Tits flashing the recipient as all sorts of gross things fly out of her breasts and Yelling Bird ejaculates).

So tell me, what's the difference between Jeph posting those sorts of things in his online journals, which are after all available for everyone to read, and his doing so in QC? Again, his decision, but it doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: skine on 20 Jun 2010, 20:18
The issue I have is with the story leading up to the original and the "redo."

In the former, YB has somehow talked ST into begrudgingly doing something sexy and dangerous to ST.

In the latter, YB has somehow talked ST into begrudgingly doing something that might harm YB and could be interpreted as slightly homoerotic.

So which makes more sense: YB does what YB always does to ST, or ST doesn't want to kill YB (which she has already attempted (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1568)) and YB willingly compromises himself.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Doc on 20 Jun 2010, 20:44
Bad redo, because you can only properly see what's happening if you already saw the original.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 20 Jun 2010, 21:16
Deleted by author due to crazy.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 20 Jun 2010, 21:26
<facepalm_level=MASSIVE>
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 20 Jun 2010, 21:32
I'd have to say they were both appropriate for Yelling Bird... but the first was much funnier, "offensive" as it might have been.  Good luck writing Yelling Bird without being offensive.

I will say that this new strip is more Sweet-Tits, however.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Fhqwhgads on 21 Jun 2010, 00:08
I always thought the whole point of yelling bird was to be as offensive as possible.  Change it back.  :cry:
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tanman on 21 Jun 2010, 07:28
lame replacement comic is lame.

One of the points of web comics is no censorship.

Yelling Bird just got his testicles burned off.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 21 Jun 2010, 08:23
It was creepy and offensive.  That's what was funny!

I'd like to know why anyone actually thought the first one was 'creepy and offensive' (or funny).  If Sweet Tits hadn't been doing it voluntarily, it would've been offensive.  But she wasn't forced.  I think a lot of people who might've been offended were mixed up.  You guys weren't angry because it was creepy! You guys were offended that it was completely unfunny! 

And the replacement would only be funny if Yelling Bird ended up flying off with one of the rockets.  Either an explosion or mild charring would've been enough for me.

Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 21 Jun 2010, 08:27
I found the funny in the details.  YB with the Zippo in both talons.  The scorch marks on ST's panties from the rocket's red glare.  Ad the fact that YB talked/coerced/forced her into doing it in the first place. 

I mean, how drunk would you have to be before this agreeing to something like this? 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 21 Jun 2010, 08:32
I found the funny in the details.  YB with the Zippo in both talons.  The scorch marks on ST's panties from the rocket's red glare.  Ad the fact that YB talked/coerced/forced her into doing it in the first place. 

I mean, how drunk would you have to be before this agreeing to something like this? 

Was she drunk?  If that's the case, then it makes it a little more plausible.  If she wasn't(and I know Sweet Tits isn't exactly a deep character or anything) it just doesn't seem in-character for her to fall for something like that (especially 30 times...for no particular reason other than to amuse the author of the strip).

But even if *I* didn't like it, I'm so glad someone can actually tell me why they do (i.e. the zippo in the talons/scorch marks) rather than just 'it's just funny!'. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Chipmissioner on 21 Jun 2010, 11:09
I liked the original the most.  I liked the little talons clutching the lighter.  I thought ST's angry face was absolutely perfectly drawn.  And honestly, I think it fit in better with the overall concept of what ST has been so far, and her interactions with Yelling Bird.

The new one's not bad.  I think if it were the original, no one would be saying it was "dumb" or "lame" (although to be fair, the whole trajectory issue does bother me a little bit, but whatever). 

If Jeph changed it because of his own feelings on the original, than none of us have any real reason to tell him to change it back (as some, but not all, have done).  No artist should have to keep up a drawing they personally are not comfortable with, and if that's the case I actually applaud Jeph for sticking with what he personally thinks is right...it takes some balls to admit you crossed over your own boundaries.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 21 Jun 2010, 12:11
I think the "shock value" was sort of the point of the first version of Friday's b-day strip.  I was surprised that he changed it, but no biggie -- it's his prerogative anyway.  Maybe Jeph's new criteria for strips is "Would I want this in one of my books?"
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: The Duke on 21 Jun 2010, 12:12
The original made me uncomfortable, and it seemed out of character for her.

Guys, in the end, it's Jeph's comic and he is going to do what he wants. (This is not a bad thing.) I can't think of a time when people complaining on the forums ever convinced him to do anything.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 21 Jun 2010, 13:55
If we're not going to complain, then what the heck are the forums for?  I mean, I agree that pissing and moaning is not a means to an end. 

Pissing and moaning is the end in and of itself...
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Jander on 21 Jun 2010, 14:25
I guess my issue with it is, once it published it's kind of in bad form to take it back or retcon it.

It would be like if Pixar decided today, oh crap we don't like the ending of Toy Story 3, and even tho 10 million people already went and saw it.  We're going to pull it from theaters, switch it out with a toned down version and never show the original ever again.  You never see a band sell a thousand albums and then do a recall to change one song.

It's perfectly acceptable for an artist to create something and decide they aren't comfortable with it and decide to change it, but once you put it out there I dont think you should make that change.  Or if you think a change is better, then make an additional piece of art, don't replace the original work.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Binary on 21 Jun 2010, 14:35
Did you read that, George Lucas, you OBSESSIVELY MEDDLING BASTARD?!
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: The Duke on 21 Jun 2010, 15:18
But in this case, it's not related to the main story.  It's more like Pixar changing the short film at the beginning of the movie after the opening week (if they even do those anymore).
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 21 Jun 2010, 15:22
Why was it creepy and offensive?  It's sort of hard to explain.  There's the whole 'violence against women' angle, but I don't think that was the only thing which Jeph didn't like about it.  It was probably the cumulative scenario; ST's look of utter disgust and anger, the implied coercion, the burnt panties (and whatever physical trauma you could draw from that), Yelling Bird acting like Yelling Bird, as well as the idea that YB was going to set off another 27 rockets, all in an attempt to celebrate the artist's birthday.  I could find it slapstick funny the same way I used to find cartoons like Tom and Jerry funny (granted, I was about 12 then...) but at the same time I can see why it's creepy.  Hell, a lot of Tex Avery cartoons were creepy if you thought too much about them.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Jander on 21 Jun 2010, 15:31
But in this case, it's not related to the main story.  It's more like Pixar changing the short film at the beginning of the movie after the opening week (if they even do those anymore).

So because ST and YB are minor characters(or even unrelated to QC characters) their stories aren't important?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 21 Jun 2010, 15:42
If we're not going to complain, then what the heck are the forums for?  

Fo' real.

I once read in a Skeptic magazine: 'We need to be diligent in explaining ourselves in a calm, rational manner when we disagree with something.  We also must make our material accessible to anyone and everyone, otherwise we're merely spreading the word to those who already believe as we do.  (see: preaching to the choir)

Honestly, as long as everyone is being civil, there's no reason that opinions shouldn't be expressed.  It's healthy to take others' viewpoints into consideration.  I think so far everyone has been very amicable in expressing our distaste/etc., so...good on us. 

And I'm pretty sure it is already understood that it's Jeph's comic and he can do as he pleases.  No one is debating that. ;)
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 21 Jun 2010, 16:04
Personally, I'd like to put the two strips together, with the new one changed to "12 more to go." At first glance, that's what I thought had happened, but then I clicked 'previous.'

As for Tex Avery, Looney Toons, and the like, sure they're disturbing. At some level you're getting a direct look into the artist's mind—that's always going to be disturbing. We spend a massive amount of effort suppressing this and that urge, impulse and thought, but for one moment you're getting the raw deal. Worse, it threatens to expose your raw deal. That can, indeed, be very uncomfortable, even frightening.

But that doesn't mean I don't still laugh at  Duck! Rabbit, Duck! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck!_Rabbit,_Duck!) when I see Daffy get his bill blown off. Part of laughter, I think, involves being uncomfortable, or dealing with the uncomfortable. All the pathos and pain Daffy goes through trying to outsmart Bugs is funny, maybe because it's pathos and pain, but removed by being centered on a ridiculously unrealistic cartoon character who never dies  and even sticks the bill right back on, making it 'safe' to laugh. You know, like a talking, abusive sparrow. I think Jeph's been pretty careful to keep YB and Sweet-tits out of QC's mainstream reality, giving them some of that same distance.

Anyway, I'd have thought the situation every bit as funny if not moreso if it'd been Steve and Marten* (though I can't work out who'd be funnier lighting the rocket). Upset with the violence? Fair enough. But to try to tie this strip to misogyny when nothing is being done to the female character specifically because of her gender says far more about the folks making those accusations than it does about Jeph. Last time I looked (very recently, I assure you) both sexes had ass cheeks capable of holding a rocket stem.

Well, mostly. I guess Steve would have to be the launch platform.

*It would resonate more strongly with the 'light a match' family of semi-scatological humor. Girls aren't so much into that, so far as I know. But it fits in with Jeph, who is famous for his fart jokes.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: J on 22 Jun 2010, 00:40
i was thinking about this, and while i still don't get what is particularly offensive about someone firing bottle rockets from their intergluteal cleft, i suspect what jeph thought was creepy was not so much the comic it's self, as it was the idea of marking his birthday with such a comic. it is conceivable that someone (particularly someone unfamiliar with the yelling bird character) might read it as a sort of 'gift to himself' and infer that jeph actually rather enjoys the idea. to such a person, jeph might very likely appear to be a creepy motherfucker.

if he had used it to denote any other special event, this might not have been a concern.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 22 Jun 2010, 01:07
Bottom line is, we'll probably never know what was going through his mind when he took it down; and for that matter, we'll never know what was going through his mind when he put it up.  Just as with any of his comics, we can only speculate. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: The Duke on 22 Jun 2010, 11:38
But in this case, it's not related to the main story.  It's more like Pixar changing the short film at the beginning of the movie after the opening week (if they even do those anymore).

So because ST and YB are minor characters(or even unrelated to QC characters) their stories aren't important?

Well...yeah.  They're filler, Jeph says so himself all the time.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Jander on 22 Jun 2010, 13:47
they don't matter to the qc cast, but that doesn't mean they can't matter in their own right.  If they have no purpose, if there isn't some intrinsic value to the existence of the strip then why bother making one at all?  Why not just have a post saying no comic, it's still art and it was still displayed to the public as art.

And i'm sure the pixar people don't just do their shorts as "filler"  Quantity of content doesn't define quality or artistic value thereof.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 22 Jun 2010, 14:02
Sweet Tits was supposed to be your basic filler character punching bag.  Problem was that only worked out for about 5 minutes because Jeph is not Dan Kim. 
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: snubnose on 22 Jun 2010, 23:39
Bottom line is, we'll probably never know what was going through his mind when he took it down; and for that matter, we'll never know what was going through his mind when he put it up.  Just as with any of his comics, we can only speculate. 
Err... if you take parts of content out of context, it always might appear extremely different.

Theres nothing you can do about it.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Jun 2010, 07:02
Moment Of The Week:

Marigold's Triumphant Return    - 5 (10.4%)
"IT'S NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!"    - 6 (12.5%)
"So, you're not REALLY Mad at him?"    - 0 (0%)
"Wait, what the hell was THAT about?"    - 0 (0%)
Total Sucker Rule Violation    - 7 (14.6%)
"Aww, what're You, my MOM?"    - 0 (0%)
"I'm becoming inured to this."    - 8 (16.7%)
The handshake    - 2 (4.2%)
"Oh $#!+, she KNOWS"    - 12 (25%)
30-gun salute from ST & YB    - 8 (16.7%)

Total Voters: 48
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: The Duke on 23 Jun 2010, 17:44
they don't matter to the qc cast, but that doesn't mean they can't matter in their own right.  If they have no purpose, if there isn't some intrinsic value to the existence of the strip then why bother making one at all?  Why not just have a post saying no comic, it's still art and it was still displayed to the public as art.

And i'm sure the pixar people don't just do their shorts as "filler"  Quantity of content doesn't define quality or artistic value thereof.

Perhaps saying their story isn't important was an exaggeration; I'm saying if Jeph thought they were as important as the main story he would do a separate comic for them.  The whole point of filler (as I understand anyway) is to provide a quick one-off gag when Jeph's too busy to do a regular comic. And to suggest that I was saying that Jeph could simply put up a blank comic and that it would be of the same value seems kind of silly to me; it's not as if filler serves no purpose whatsoever.

Also: Pixar short films certainly aren't filler - I often find them to be quite clever and fun.  I just think it's a better comparison than the main story of Toy Story 3.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Dliessmgg on 24 Jun 2010, 01:36
The Pixar short films are actually there for testing new technology iirc.
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 25 Jun 2010, 16:58
I'd say that Marten was a bit of a doormat and a bit desperate, but he didn't pretend to be someone's friend in hopes of getting to sleep with them.

You mean not counting the central plot of the first 500 strips?
Title: Re: WDT: June 14-18, 2010
Post by: akronnick on 25 Jun 2010, 17:11
He wasn't pretending anything then.