...if Dora calls the therapist one day, it seems unlikely to me that they would set up a session for the next day, whereas Marten (that same day on the phone with his mom) said "see you tomorrow", and a day in QCtime is often a week or more, so I don't anticipate those two things being in the same week of real time. I think Jeph will want to spread each of those events out over a week to better explore both of them in detail.
That poll needs to be multiple choice. I hope for not only the appearance of Veronica, but for Dora's first session as well.
Geez, how could I NOT have seen "Beast of Bourbon" as an option? :psyduck:
If Marten drinks too much more Faye might walk in to him swinging a broom around the apartment trying to fight that 9-foot pterodactyl.
If the songs Jeph uses for the strip titles are meant to be a quasi-soundtrack, Marten's not in a very good place right now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iszGfyLf5dQ
Dear lord...... Veronica must be trying to earn her wings....
:psyduck:
You know, it's rare that a QC comic influences my own life, but tonight is an exception: I lost my grandfather at around 7 o'clock EST Sunday. And while I came home, fully expecting to crack open my bottle of whiskey, the threat of a horrible hallucination has changed my mind and made me smile instead. :-)
I guess what I'm saying is: Thanks Jeph. Your comic helps in ways other have no hope of ever doing.
You know, it's rare that a QC comic influences my own life, but tonight is an exception: I lost my grandfather at around 7 o'clock EST Sunday. And while I came home, fully expecting to crack open my bottle of whiskey, the threat of a horrible hallucination has changed my mind and made me smile instead. :-)that really sucks, i know what losing family is like i only have one grandparent left, my grandma who is 95 years old, all three of the others dies when i was between the ages of 10-15 and there's nothing you can really do about it. my grandma had a heart attack about 5 months ago and we all though she was gonna die but she pulled through. hope you find some closure and feel better :|
I guess what I'm saying is: Thanks Jeph. Your comic helps in ways other have no hope of ever doing.
(Anyone else decided they might've actually had enough of Pintsize for a bit?)
"Can't eat, almost 85."
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.
He won't you know, so leave it.
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.
Blue's not really your color.
And good for Marten, at least he recognizes bad advice when he hears it. Of course, listening is another matter entirely!
Personally, I'm holding out for a booze-monster party. Where's Gary (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=721) when you need him?
Marten's not drinking vermouth - yet.You only drink vermouth when the rest of the liquor's gone. Ever notice how dry vermouth tastes like pizza?
Apparently work takes a very dim view if you pass out and then blame it on a web comic.
Apparently this is going on my permanent record.
A little surprised that Hanners left. I wonder where this is going.
did marty break out the old hoodie? its black again...
Sings:
I'll never be
Your Beast of Bourbon
My mouth's so dry
My head is hurtin'
Never, never never never never drinkin' JD again
Oh no!
I do apologize for entering this place of worship and pissing in the holy water.
While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up), I think we will be seeing the first baby-steps of Dora attempting therapy.
While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up)
Bad taste jokes are still bad taste; there's been enough of that sort of thing around here to last us forever. We're trying to improve this place, so please play ball.
Check out the welcome thread at the top for hints.
No Hanners, come back!
He needs comfort...
I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.I don't. Remember Faye's threat????
Faye kick Marten's ass? That's some truly 'Southern Comfort' right there! :lol:
I don't see that ("Marten's tendency to go after women that treat him like shit") as a realistic judgement based on what we actually know, though. He and Vicky were fine for a while, but then grew apart and ended unsatisfactorily, which is not an uncommon stage in life; Faye he hankered after, but she didn't treat him like shit (play-punching and being unavailable aren't enough to qualify); and Dora, well, she chased him, and didn't treat him like shit until sometime after they were together.
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.
*While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up)I would love to see Jeph handle that. He's never been much of a political animal, though, more's the pity.
Marten was the creepy one in the relationship with Vicky, though (already argued this out in another thread several months ago), so I don't think we want to go through that one again (short version: She broke up with him, he moved to follow her anyway and she wasn't assertive enough to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls).
Faye did treat Marten like shit pretty much continuously until the comic evolved into them genuinely being friends instead of Marten being the Nice Guy that let the Girl He Is Attracted To move in (with her being very well aware of it)
and Dora chased after Marten because she saw a readily available doormat that she could walk all over (and she broke up with him when he finally redeveloped a spine).
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.
Faye? Mama Bear instinct? I can see that, but i can't see Faye as a person that acts non-violently, like taking care of Marten and cleaning the mess....
What, you think she'll walk away, go to bed and leave him to wake up face down in his own puke?
...actually, I can see Faye doing that. It'd be funnier too, along with the aftermath. Would delight the Faye-haters though, as well as maybe add to their ranks.
...actually, I can see Faye doing that. It'd be funnier too, along with the aftermath. Would delight the Faye-haters though, as well as maybe add to their ranks.
I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.
Seriously, if Faye walks past Marten in that condition, and doesn't at least call Hanners or Steve, then a lot of people's opinions on Faye are going to do a 180, because that would be revealing some very messed up stuff about her. I don't consider it a reasonable possibility, and after all Marten has done for Faye, I don't think it's in character for her at all.
strip 927
NO.
Please discuss possibilities that plausibly fit the characters in the comic, and the way the comic is written - not your fantasies.
<snip>
(1) I bow to your superior Archive-Fu.In this case jwhouk deserves the credit. I used his summary of the contents of every strip. The Hannermom series all took places during one of the gaps in ohnorobot's coverage.
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.Actually, I see the possibility of a wonderful piece of turnabout in this. Here's hoping…
I don't see that ("Marten's tendency to go after women that treat him like shit") as a realistic judgement based on what we actually know, though. He and Vicky were fine for a while, but then grew apart and ended unsatisfactorily, which is not an uncommon stage in life; Faye he hankered after, but she didn't treat him like shit (play-punching and being unavailable aren't enough to qualify); and Dora, well, she chased him, and didn't treat him like shit until sometime after they were together.As I've said before, Marten seems to prefer
Okay, I'm going to admit something: I'm lost as to a new poll topic.
Suggestions?
You know, looking at his experiences with a critical eye, I'd say Marten's real problem is he can only focus on one girl at a time—Sara comes to mind. Poor girl never had a chance, I suspect—Marten was already set on Faye. Really…
No Hanners, come back!
He needs comfort...
That can, of course, be taken quite innocently. However, in the light of your previous posts, I suspect that wasn't what you meant. Tsk, tsk.
We all know what Marten wants (and what he needs) even if he would never admit it to himself.
Light petting and a hot chick without her bra on and you notice the potted plant.
Just making sure.
Oh alarm is warranted, sure, just honest threats of emasculation are a bit of an overreaction. Not that I'm going "FAYE IS HUGE BITCH BLUH BLUH", she's right to be piqued, but at this point, she should give Angus a liiiiittle more trust.
I fail, I thought it was a bonsai privet hedge.
We all know what Marten wants (and what he needs) even if he would never admit it to himself.
So where's the evidence to suggest this? Just wishing it to be so isn't enough. Without evidence, this goes nowhere.
Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore), so it's not like the idea in-comic would have been out of nowhere. In fact, I'd wager that the larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer and got too much more drunk alongside Marten and used the Marigold excuse to tacitly bail out early and avoid (at best) horrifyingly awkward and terrible sex or (at worst) the arrival of Zalgo in the QC-verse.
Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore),
the larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer
Angus: Marigold, how many bras do you have on?
Marigold: Wh-what?
Faye: Hey I found it!
Angus: Oh ok nevermind. 'Night! *shuts door*
Marigold: ...
And possibly forgetting to eat anything, hence Hanners' idea to actually make sure Marigold has something to eat.
If I don't tweet sometime in the next six months, assume I died playing Cataclysm and I guess tell my parents or something
Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore),
Not with Hanners was my point. Also sex in that situation solves nothing, and has plenty of potential for making everyone feel worse about things.
Quotethe larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer
I really don't see such a scenario entering Hannelore's mind yet, myself - if it had, there would've been signs of panic.
PS New poll material? Where is Faye's bra?!Not a poll—a Hidden Object game! Somewhat akin to Where's Waldo, but no eyes in the white circles*, and nothing else except lines for the straps…
She could just walk down the street fondling herself...Now there is a mental image I do not need.
<snip>
Edit:She could just walk down the street fondling herself...Now there is a mental image I do not need.
Hah! Ah the old post-makeout clothes searchTM. Watch out now, you stop paying attention for one minute and then BAM: clothes start "disappearing" like mad! And Angus' shirt is even open a bit! Looks like Faye is more forceful than I had expected! :-D
Now I could guess as to what Marigold is doing, but I'm sure she's just wishing they'd keep it down and turn off that damn music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvGwY4tEJQM)
Tai has it,
...
I like to believe that Momo is running around the apartment with Faye's bra on her head.
I bet the bra has been eaten by the green fluffy alien in the corner.
Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.
I just hope Marten doesn't do anything stupid in his stupor. :police: I honestly cannot take any more drama at the moment.
Borderline fanfic, really.
Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.
Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.
I just hope Marten doesn't try anything stupid in his stupor. :police: I honestly cannot take any more drama at the moment.
Not speculating, contriving, and that in an unconvincing way, I would say. It is quite clear that that wouldn't happen in the comic - Jeph's a much better writer than that.
Dangling a foot over the line to see what I do, perhaps?
NO.did marty break out the old hoodie? its black again...
It was noted the day after the breakup. But after all, he's got plenty (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=560)!
What? This is classic sitcom material!
As for dangling a foot, really not the case. I didn't think that it contravened forum etiquette, but have taken on board the feedback of elder and wiser heads and already remove the offending material. You can be assured that I will avoid crossing that line in the future as best I can.
I bet the bra has been eaten by the green fluffy alien in the corner.
Now that makes sense - in an odd sort of way.
Faye can defend herself; she's punched him to the floor twice, if I remember right.But playfully, yes?
Scenario:
Faye and Marten drink and talk the rest of the night away, and both pass out on the couch, Marten leaning against Faye. Ms. Reed shows up, having taken a cab from the airport, and arrives to find her son's head nestled between Faye's bosoms.
"Well, I see you've moved on already. I'll just leave you two alone..."
What? This is classic sitcom material!
That's just silly, and a waste of our time reading it, I think.
in my opinion, which holds precisely zero administrative authority, leave 'offending material'.
...yeah Faye's garments seem to disappear inexplicably. Whenever she's with Angus.
If I were Faye I'd start lookin for a "trophy closet."
wooo go waffles, maybe you will finally win a poll :psyduck:
You just reminded me of how much I missed the old Faye's swagger.<snip>
Edit:She could just walk down the street fondling herself...Now there is a mental image I do not need.
Then don't look back here. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=89)
This strip is kind of bugging me.
I am a rather well-endowed woman. Now, I can believe that in the heat of the makeouts, someone could take my bra off without me noticing at the time, or I could do it and not pay attention. However, what I can't believe is that it would be done *leaving my shirt where it is*.
Okay, I think I've hit the darkest point I'm gonna hit with this whole breakup storyline. Hoo boy.
I am a rather well-endowed woman. Now, I can believe that in the heat of the makeouts, someone could take my bra off without me noticing at the time, or I could do it and not pay attention. However, what I can't believe is that it would be done *leaving my shirt where it is*.
From Jeph's Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/jephjacques)QuoteOkay, I think I've hit the darkest point I'm gonna hit with this whole breakup storyline. Hoo boy.
Hold on to your butts!
Hm.Do the voices in my head bother you?
I just realized that I read the character's lines in different voices now that the art has changed. I used to think of Faye as using a higher pitched, almost squeaky voice. Now it's a bit huskier, more timbre to it. Dora also changed, but I'm having a harder time finding the words to say how.
Marten's the only one who I think of using the same voice continuously.
Oh please tell me Marten isn't going to do something stupid......
Plausible theory: Pintsize Remote Desktop'd/telnet'd/ssh'd into Momo and made her steal Faye's bra.If Pintsize ever ssh'd into Momo, the most likely thing he would make her do is downloading Marigold's porn she undoubtedly has on her computer to him.
If Pintsize ever ssh'd into Momo, the most likely thing he would make her do is downloading Marigold's porn she undoubtedly has on her computer to him.
In vino veritas. In other words, is it worse than Marten said this now or that he always thought it but kept it to himself?Well, considering she is just comig from a make-out session with her boyfriend, she may have felt more than a little disturbed.
Either way, does making a move on someone warrant getting punched? If she had simply let him fall when he tried that it'd be one thing, but that violence was uncalled for, even for Faye.
Pintsize can never have enough porn.If Pintsize ever ssh'd into Momo, the most likely thing he would make her do is downloading Marigold's porn she undoubtedly has on her computer to him.
Why would he do that when a lot of it was already his (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1414)?
Also, yay, first post. The registration worked this time.
She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right.Well, that would provide something to talk about in her next therapy session. That means we might see Dr. Corinne again. Yay!
She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.
She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right. I'm not saying that he is right, or even that he'll think so when he wakes up, but it's probably something that she's considered.
She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.
Can't really blame her. This is the first, the very first time Marten has ever A) Expressed anger/resentment towards her right to her face, and B) tried to come onto her. This is probably a situation she never thought she'd be in, so when she's unexpectedly thrown into it, she automatically goes to her default response, which, though she hasn't used in awhile, is still pretty deeply ingrained.
Ms. Reed is gonna walk right into one huge pile of shit when she gets there....
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. And when you consider the reason she went home, cutting short the makeup session, was to check up on him, I imagine that she might be spending a lot more time over at Angus's.
We might actually see the location of the comic trend towards over there anyway. More of the cast is hanging out over there than any place other than coffee of doom.
In other words, is it worse than Marten said this now or that he always thought it but kept it to himself?Yes. I'm surprised Marten's still conscious, so it's not too surprising that he's peeled away enough layers of maturity to get down to the selfish two-year-old that lurks in us all, but I'm disappointed he couldn't keep his hands to himself when they were clearly unwelcome. While he might not remember the blow, the black eye or bruised jaw might be a hint in the morning that he stepped over the line. Could be awkward, but I think Faye's a "you've had your lumps, let's forget it" kind of girl. She really should learn not to punch to the head though, it's a good way to injure your hands.
is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?
I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.I imagine the more depressing (and potentially likely, depending on how pissed Faye is) scenario is to wake up all alone in a puddles of the stuff all over the floor.
Or all of the above.
Are you sure Marten is still conscious? I was rather hoping he wasn't, dude needs to shut up and Now.
is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?
We've seen many (though not for a long time), but those against Marten previously have always been playpunching, however hard - I stand by that because they were not such as to affect their relationship. The only non-play violence I recall is when Faye threw Angus across the bar for getting far less familiar than Marten just did.
Warning - while you were reading 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.While I was reading?? I haven't even written anything yet, what's to review??? :psyduck:
Well, that was a great chapter. Marten's well-earned his drunken jerkitude, so all the power to him to make an ass of himself to his heart's content for the night. In fact, I'd be tickled pink to see him retain consciousness long enough to come to the realization (after his little drunken speech) that like Faye, now Dora will get her issues resolved thanks at least in part to him and the breakup, which will lead her to more healthy relationships in the future. Of course, depending on how drunk he is, this would be the point where the inevitable epiphany kicks in that he exists essentially as a garage pitstop on Relationship Road to repair the women in his life and send them off to sleep with the rest of the gang at Hipster Junction (Sven "quizzing" at the gate). Now to move on to Hanners, and with Anges tied up with our disturbingly strong femme fatale, eventually Marigold.
Seriously though, I pray Faye doesn't take his drunken ramblings too much to heart, since he's in a pretty bad place right now, and mainly, drunk off his damn ass on what could only be worse if it was glowing. It's somewhat hard to stay mad at him for it, especially given his track record, and Faye doesn't seem like the type to hold a grudge over this given past arguments and such.I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.I imagine the more depressing (and potentially likely, depending on how pissed Faye is) scenario is to wake up all alone in a puddles of the stuff all over the floor.
Or all of the above.
Actually, my new prediction is follows: Ms Reed drags Marty off to Cod to force him and Dora to talk about their issues. Marty then throws up on Dora's shoes and passes out. Hannelore faints.And Dora pisses herself in fear, too, considering I don't believe she's been informed of the arrival Ms. Reed. Hell, Faye might be sweating a few bullets herself, when Ms. Reed queries on the gang on why her son is missing some teeth. :D
You forgot "...just as the health inspector walks in."Well, that was a great chapter. Marten's well-earned his drunken jerkitude, so all the power to him to make an ass of himself to his heart's content for the night. In fact, I'd be tickled pink to see him retain consciousness long enough to come to the realization (after his little drunken speech) that like Faye, now Dora will get her issues resolved thanks at least in part to him and the breakup, which will lead her to more healthy relationships in the future. Of course, depending on how drunk he is, this would be the point where the inevitable epiphany kicks in that he exists essentially as a garage pitstop on Relationship Road to repair the women in his life and send them off to sleep with the rest of the gang at Hipster Junction (Sven "quizzing" at the gate). Now to move on to Hanners, and with Anges tied up with our disturbingly strong femme fatale, eventually Marigold.
Seriously though, I pray Faye doesn't take his drunken ramblings too much to heart, since he's in a pretty bad place right now, and mainly, drunk off his damn ass on what could only be worse if it was glowing. It's somewhat hard to stay mad at him for it, especially given his track record, and Faye doesn't seem like the type to hold a grudge over this given past arguments and such.I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.I imagine the more depressing (and potentially likely, depending on how pissed Faye is) scenario is to wake up all alone in a puddles of the stuff all over the floor.
Or all of the above.
Actually, my new prediction is follows: Ms Reed drags Marty off to Cod to force him and Dora to talk about their issues. Marty then throws up on Dora's shoes and passes out. Hannelore faints.
She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right. I'm not saying that he is right, or even that he'll think so when he wakes up, but it's probably something that she's considered.
She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.
You forgot "...just as the health inspector walks in."
It's unlikely that Pintsize will fall under anyone's gaze for a while, considering he's duck taped to the back wall of the freezer, and hidden by a bag of frozen peas.
Eh, wait, he can't be the Chew Toy if he's gone...
Boy is there gonna be some blowback for this. Drunken bitterness or not, I HIGHLY doubt Faye is gonna forgive Marten easily both for what he said and tried to do. He will be paying for this night for some time to come, and I ain't talking 'bout the hangover either.
Ah, Marten has official resumed his role as the strip's Chew Toy. Complete with punchings.
Boy is there gonna be some blowback for this. Drunken bitterness or not, I HIGHLY doubt Faye is gonna forgive Marten easily both for what he said and tried to do. He will be paying for this night for some time to come, and I ain't talking 'bout the hangover either.
Perhaps he should take an extended vacation back home with mom (in other words RUN FOR HIS LIFE!!). Eh, wait, he can't be the Chew Toy if he's gone...
She may be angry, but she wont stew, methinks, and she knows what's said is alcohol-influenced. Faye has become very good at just getting issues out there and confronting them.
I think, based on what she did with the other "I chose Angus over Marty D:" scenario, where she was honest and contrite about making Marten jump through hoops rather than just telling him up front about her father's suicide, she will probably confront Marten with what he said, once they're both ready, and ask him very quietly how much he means that.
If Marten deserves half the positive read we give him, he will drop his own defenses and admit to the girl that is plainly his Goddamn moirail and deserves his trust pretty implicitly that he is hurting so Goddamn bad right now and of course he didn't mean that shit.
moirail
Marten meant every single word, it just took the bourbon for him not to care anymore about the consequences of actually saying what he meant. He's wrong, we know this, but this is what he truly thinks of what has been going on and I'm actually kind of surprised Jeph himself threw out such a blatant "Yep, Marten is still the Nice Guy he was back in strip #1" billboard for everyone arguing over his personality.
moirail
Where does this word come from, and what does it mean or imply? I've never known Google to be so useless!
Living emotional crutch...? Not how I meant it. :psyduck:
The read I got on the word was "one's absolute best friend", the person who's with you through thick and thin; or at least that's the ideal meaning of the word. I think it encapsulates Marten and Faye's state pretty well, post-actual romance.
The term comes from Andrew Hussie's excellent "Homestuck", and the Alternian Trolls' romance concepts.
You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.
What if Dora was right about her insecurities?
Then again, this is Marten, and going with the flow of staying with Dora would've been the easier option that he probably would've taken...
You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.
What if Dora was right about her insecurities?
I think they threw it in there on account of that's how it tends to get employed, and why moirallegiances tend to break down--it's supposed to mean you take a deep interest in each other's well-being, that you look out for one another emotionally as well as being best friends.
Faye's trusted Marten to look after her in the past, and it's high time he does the same for her.
Pintsize can never have enough porn.Well ... not really true, he obviously has harddrive limits.
Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.
Pffffffffft !!!!!!!
Seriously !!!!!!
Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ?
Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.
Faye reached a new level of completely and utterly uncool.
Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
One way to interpret Marten's drunken outburst is being a dick, absolutely. Bluntly, rudely honest ignoring the nuances of the overall situation? I think thats another way. Nothing I'd say to anyone myself, even drunkenly I'd hope, but he's taken more than enough of his ration of shit and I think everybody should get one. Of course I knew he was gonna ktfo'd once he tried touching Faye. Is it just me or is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?Um, honesty ? Personally I think he's just repeating now the stupid theories that have been thrown at him all the time while he was with Dora.
I think that indicates she's pissed off by what he just spouted, is what it indicates, and she's got every right. But this is Faye, and she has said straight out that Marten is her best friend in the world and she can barely take him being mad at her. She'll give him a sober chance to apologize and spill his guts.Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.
That line about how at least one of them wouldn't remember what happened indicates otherwise.
Well, duh. He's drunk and he's getting aggressive when she's clearly not comfortable with the situation. Faye did absolutely the right thing on this one.Oh please tell me Marten isn't going to do something stupid......
Well, he is drunk... Oh dear.
Not playpunching.
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??
You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).
More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
:psyduck: I knew it, i knew it, i knew it!I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.I don't. Remember Faye's threat????
Also, i have a hunch that Faye is going to come home and kick Marten's ass. Maybe it's crazyness talking, but just a hunch.
Well ... not really true, he obviously has harddrive limits.
Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might. His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering." Then finds out what Marten said. More Marten hitting. Please don't.
So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.
Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might. His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering." Then finds out what Marten said. More Marten hitting. Please don't.
So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.
Oh boy.... Forum rampage in 3....2....1
You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).
More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.
You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.
Wow. He finally actually deserved her hitting him.Jupp, that is a first.
Don't be too pissed at him, Faye. Dude's in pain. Well, now he's really in pain, but you know what I mean.
Did not handle what well? The punching? I have always hated when she punched Marten in earlier strips (NOT play punching, regardless of how she "intended" it and the fact that Marten put up with it--it would regularly leave serious bruises that lasted several days and were apparently painful, let alone the times he has indeed knocked him to the floor), but in this case I'd agree it was self-defense. And probably best for Marten to just end the night there, rather than running the risk of whatever else he might do.Puuuh. Good thing I'm apparently not the only one who remembers how awfully hard Faye hits ! Judging from some posts, many people here have completely forgotten about it.
Or did you mean the entire Marten situation? Because while she did not handle the lead-up, what with the sometime-flirting and the occasional taking-advantage of his attraction to her, she handled Marten's confession as well as one could be expected to. No person in the world owes it to another person to be romantically interested in them. Neither do they owe it to them to be in an appropriate state to be romantically receptive. Someone (let's say person X) can be not ready for a relationship when person A asks, but then be ready for a relationship with person B, and while that may not be "fair" that is not something done to person A, but simply the way things are. It has to do with person X, not person A. In other words: it's not about Marten.
Also, the way he brought up "my girlfriend dumped me" definitely sounds very dismissive of the actual value of his relationship with Dora. It makes it sound like he just wanted a girlfriend, any girlfriend, and basically saw Dora as the means of getting "there"--ie, her value to her was just her interchangeable role as "girlfriend" rather than as Dora, and now he's pissed that he's no longer in possession of "girlfriend," which is something he seems to feel entitled to for being a "nice guy" (as far as his words here--not saying he would put it that way if he were sober). Obviously, the fact that he got to spend over a year in a stable relationship that gave him a lot of pleasure while Faye's situation was far less comfortable isn't entering his drunk mind here.
what the hell? I didn't think Marten would ever let that kind of thing happen, but, reading back, he sometimes got kinda really drunk, and didn't handle the situations... the best way (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=514).I dont think that situation has much to do with this one.
And does this confession mean he just put up a happy face when Faye had her "relationship" with Sven? As far as I remember, he even defended her against Dora, but also mentioned his not being angry had something to do with the hot, hot Dora-sexin'.Uh, how weird. So you really believe people who just poisoned their brains so large parts dont work any more are "confessing" things ?
Eh, I don't think it will be that hard. Faye's honest, she doesn't put up with that kind of behaviour, but she also knows that she owes Marten big time, and that he's in a real bad place now. She'll be there for him as she was for Dora, angry or not.Agreed. There is no way Faye can possibly be suppressed by Marten. She's a strong woman, always has been, very likely even physically stronger than Marten.
You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.Again, I think Marten in his drunk state is too confused to think straight - and copies Doras way of thinking even if he would never do that with his brain fully operational.
What if Dora was right about her insecurities?
Then again, this is Marten, and going with the flow of staying with Dora would've been the easier option that he probably would've taken...
I'm highly tempted to just post a youtube link to M. Bison's "Yes! Yes!" video...but I don't think anyone does that sort of thing on these forums.I'm happy you think that. I think this is roughly the way things will develop.
I'll just say I found this development highly entertaining and, at the same time, reasonable considering his situation and degree of inebriation. Pretty sure he'll regret it when he sobers up and pretty sure Faye will be understanding, cause she's been generally supportive throughout this whole ordeal.
Keep it up, Jeph.
You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).Marten has been a real nice guy for most of the comic.
More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
I found this episode... not out of character for Marten.Really ? I was hella surprised by this turn. Thats not the Marten I know.
OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month. Bring it.
You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.
There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.
OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month. Bring it.
Uh. You said Marten will get drunk now on a regular basis ... why would you think that ?It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??
You're either very much misinterpreting what I said, or quoting the wrong person.
OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month. Bring it.
No! You missunderstand me!
It's not that you posted something that'd make all the users get angry at you, but a few weeks ago, (when Marten and Dora broke up) there was a rampage in this forum, with hundreds, and i mean HUNDREDS of post starting with: "first time poster, i want to say that [.....]" and then someone denunced another guy 'cause he didn't like the opinion, and the thread got locked out.... A real mess.
What i said was merelly a joke refering that situation, i don't think that kind of mess can repeat it self... Right?
You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).Marten has been a real nice guy for most of the comic.
More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
The very moment he steps over a border for once, while being extremely drunk and being extremely depressed, you already are willing to throw him into the deepest pits of hell for that !??
Uh. You said Marten will get drunk now on a regular basis ... why would you think that ?
Also you said he would behave exactly like he does right now ... again, why would you think that ? Plus that would be quite unhealthy for him. Its a running gag of the comic how physically weak Marten is. While Faye is portrayed being "a hell of a puncher", i.e. quite strong.
And note, if this was the darkest point, as Jeph said, then things should start to improve from here, however slowly - right?
Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.
But what really gets him, is that his best friend, the girl he has helped with all her problems, has fucked off and left him alone while she made out with her new boyfriend. Now that she decided to return home, Faye has been told a few home truths, and doesn’t like it and acted in a way which only confirms it.
At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.
Yes, Marten has just been dickish, but at the same time, he has every right to be.
So if he can’t be happy, why the fuck should they?
He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing.
At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.
You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.
Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.
Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
Just sayin'.
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
Just sayin'.
I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?Yes! And i'm afraid, because we do a very specific, cruent sacrifice, that involves werevolves, Antartica, three midgets, and a pole. And i HATE to wake up the three midgets...
:psyduck:
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
Just sayin'.
I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?
:psyduck:
Yes! And i'm afraid, because we do a very specific, cruent sacrifice, that involves werevolves, Antartica, three midgets, and a pole. And i HATE to wake up the three midgets...
You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.
Pffffffffft !!!!!!!
Seriously !!!!!!
Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ?
Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.
Faye reached a new level of completely and utterly uncool.
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent. Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.On the opposite, I think its a typical case of self-fullfilling prophecy.
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
Just sayin'.
I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?
:psyduck:
Please, this takes place in Massachusetts - Cthullu or one of the other Old Ones, maybe.
The only Mexican we've seen honoured in the strip so far is the great deity known as "Burrito"
He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing.
And then you contradict yourself by providing great examples of people trying to help him. What exactly are they supposed to do, suck his dick? They're being there for him in ways that are well within their character. Also, keep in mind that Faye has already made some effort to repair the ruined relationship (be it friendship or more) by getting Dora the help she needs. At this time, Faye's done the most to help Marten.
At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.
Absolutely not, as mentioned above. Dealing with this better would show strength of character. While his actions are completely understandable and many of us should be able to sympathize with him...it doesn't make him right in this. Lashing out at your closest friends and being self-destructive? Hard to say that it's ever 'right' or 'deserved' IMO.
Now if you just meant that his actions are understandable, then I withdraw most of my statements.My points are based on experience. Without going into too much detail, I have been in Marten’s place. I also know that the worse thing to say to someone in that time, especially the day after the break up, is that “they’ll be alright”. They don’t hear that, all a person hears is “It doesn’t matter what you feel, get over it so we don’t have to hear anymore whining.” I’ve done the getting drunk phase, the lashing out at friends phase and the trying to blame someone else phase, so I completely understand Marten’s actions and I’m certain that any relatively normal person would do the exact same if they were in his position
Puuuh. Good thing I'm apparently not the only one who remembers how awfully hard Faye hits ! Judging from some posts, many people here have completely forgotten about it.
I dont count it as self defense either. Marten is helpless. He would already collapse if she just pushed him a bit.
Instead she starts one of her beatings, which at this point is sadistic.
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
I see nothing to justify that. In any case, if a problem should arise, it will, if possible, be dealt with individually, not by a blanket slamming of the gates. We want people to come and join in.
I don't know; I think if I went to grope my best friend after talking to her like a dick while being completely trashed, I'd be disappointed if she DIDN'T give me a shiner as a result. There are so many other examples of Faye beating down people unwarrantedly - I don't think this is one of them.
I strongly disagree that "there's no self defense with a drunk guy." What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?
Look at it from his perspective, just over 24 hours beforehand he was in a loving, though slightly bumpy,
relationship with an amazing woman (to him),
which made the fact that he had a going-nowhere band and a dead end job that much more bearable, in general made him that happier.
Now, what does he have? An ex-girlfriend whose own issues sabotaged the relationship.
I strongly disagree that "there's no self defense with a drunk guy." What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?
One the one hand, I've always been a believer of the idea that drunk words are sober thoughts. So Marten could very well just be an asshole. On the other hand, Marten could have very well just been spouting nonsense because he's hurt and wants everyone else to hurt like he does. Regardless, what he said was totally out of line. Faye hitting him was definitely impulsive and perhaps not the best of reactions, but she was definitely in the right putting him in his place.You got it right on the second one. The released 2-year-old believes strongly in "misery loves company." Does Marten believe this stuff? On some level, the bawling "it isn't faaaiiirrrr" child inside certinainly does. We all have thoughts like this, and we all suppress them because we know they're not a real evaluation of either our own situation or others. Normally, therefore, we keep them to ouselves. Enter Alk-ee-hol, the Great Liberator. 'Tis why many a folklore holds that strong drink in excess either allows in or releases devils in one's nature.
I'm not going to judge Marten based on this just yet. He'll have the chance to redeem himself once he sobers up.
Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.
Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.
Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye.
Ok another newbie here. Plz forgive lol.
After reading all this sexual assault and groping business I had to go back and reread the comic to make sure I didn't miss anything. All I see is Marten saying things that are inappropriate. Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye. Now you could argue that with the angle of his arm he might be going in for a grope, but that'd be speculation as it's out of frame. I'd personally like to give him a little credit. I feel like people are being a bit harsh with their wording. Yes he's being wildly inappropriate, but based on whats shown I'd hardly say he's sexually assaulting Faye. Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.
I'm glad someone caught that! RT @AbelUndercity: Faye's stance suggests some muay thai training.
Wiregeek: From Twitter:Quote from: @jephjacquesI'm glad someone caught that! RT @AbelUndercity: Faye's stance suggests some muay thai training.
What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?
I see nothing to justify that. In any case, if a problem should arise, it will, if possible, be dealt with individually, not by a blanket slamming of the gates. We want people to come and join in.He, it was just a joke, didn't mean to you take it seriously..
It's usually Yog-Sothoth. We have spare yerba mate and espresso's cheap enough...Ugh, that's when it gets really nasty.... But it got me curious. How do you people (and i mean United Staste of Americans) prepare yerba mate? you put the herbs in a tea bag and it's like a regular tea?
Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...
Just sayin'.
I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?
:psyduck:
Please, this takes place in Massachusetts - Cthullu or one of the other Old Ones, maybe.
The only Mexican we've seen honoured in the strip so far is the great deity known as "Burrito"
It's usually Yog-Sothoth. We have spare yerba mate and espresso's cheap enough...
throws out one of the douchiest, most pathetic come on lines I can think of.See the last minute of the last video on http://www.sloshspot.com/blog/12-13-2010/Best-Sexual-Harassment-Training-Videos-387 (http://www.sloshspot.com/blog/12-13-2010/Best-Sexual-Harassment-Training-Videos-387).
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.
Just wanna point out I said assault not harassment,
As someone said, sexual assault really genuinely legally doesn't require a violent physical or verbal attack.
I dont know if this has already been posted yet, but i found a Hannelore @ Coffeestore crossover at todays Insane Yeti Squirrel Comic:
http://www.insaneyetisquirrel.com/comic/baby-its-cold-outside
We've all had it, we all know it's a busy time. Perhaps there's not really any need to tell everyone any more. And actually, if it irritates you, you can turn the warning off in your profile.
I dont know if this has already been posted yet, but i found a Hannelore @ Coffeestore crossover at todays Insane Yeti Squirrel Comic:
http://www.insaneyetisquirrel.com/comic/baby-its-cold-outside
It's all webcomic zen? Faye's happiness is going up, so Marten's has to go down to compensate?Wait, so then who's the Jerry Sei-errr, Even Steven in the equation?
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.
This isn't bottom - not yet. Now, if Dora went over to Martin's to apologize and Martin drunkenly says something to irrevocably destroy any hope of them getting back together... then proceeds with his little bitter-fest vs. Faye, Sven and Angus (and everyone else, 'cause hey!) mixed with some depression-induced heavy drinking... and, oh... hmm... oH!
It's all webcomic zen? Faye's happiness is going up, so Marten's has to go down to compensate?
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.
My apologies if I wasn't clear. It just seems that Dora seems to be getting a lot of sympathy from the others, while Marten has barely gotten a "How are you feeling?"
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.
Eh, it's Faye. She punches people. That's part of her character.
A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
QuoteA concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.
That's... not true at all. Hanners bringing the worry hat and Hanners drinking on that filthy couch. Marten's mom flying in. Faye helping Marten process the ridiculousness of Dora's paranoia, raging out a bit, and then accepting Marten's point of view to stay calm. Tai hugging Marten. Faye coming home early to make sure Marten's OK.
Clearly, this sucks for everyone in their social circle, and so far, Hanners is kind of still a friend to both, Faye is/was still closer to Marten, Tai is definitely closer to Marten, and Sven of course is on Dora's side, but still nice to Marten (in his horribly unhelpful way.) I don't think Dora is getting all the sympathy while Marten is suffering alone AT ALL.
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
Can we not trivialize sexual assault by pretending this is anything near that please?
But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting.
As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway)... But she never asked if he was ok.Well, Angus is her boyfriend. She's not abandoning Marten. She lives with him and she's been there, although giving him space. Which he sort of indicated he needed by shutting the door after he came home from the breakup.
As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1806 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1806) "Well? Is it helping?"
I don't buy that. A drunk dude moving in for a kiss you don't want is licence to shove him off, not punch him hard enough to knock him over and leave him sprawled on the ground with cartoon stars of unconsciousness floating above him.
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
I don't think anyone would think Marten was guilty of any type of sexual assault for bringing his face slightly closer to Faye's and suggesting they should make out. Nobody was forced into anything and Faye clearly stopped that train of thought before it got to the station. She said no really forcefully by shoving or punching him away. She didn't give him a chance to back off; she made sure he wasn't in a position to. And I think even drunk, if she had said no, Marten would have respected THAT line. If he hadn't, that would have brought him into assault territory.
I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends. They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.
It's also not sexual harassment - it's definitely an awkward and unwanted drunken advance, but it lacks the foresight and coercive/persistent nature that I think really defines harassment.
People making unwanted advances can be annoying, but there's a difference between feeling like "Argh, I so don't want to deal with this friend drama, can I just be somewhere else right now" and "Holy crap this huge guy will not let go of me and it's late and this street is deserted" or "If I say no to my boss, will I lose my job?" Can we not trivialize sexual assault by pretending this is anything near that please?
So who's next on the list?
(I'm presuming mods are immune and get pimp-tastic robes for the ceremony.)
Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.
Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent. Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.
I don't buy that. A drunk dude moving in for a kiss you don't want is licence to shove him off, not punch him hard enough to knock him over and leave him sprawled on the ground with cartoon stars of unconsciousness floating above him....
That said, I don't think Faye used excessive force here. I doubt she jackhammered the guy. He was already drunk and unsteady, I'd buy that he went down from a basic "get away from me!" punch.
...
Well, that depends to a large degree on how you interpret that last panel. Between her words and the stars, I sure took it to mean that she'd KO'd him.
I can't help but wonder if Marten was somewhat reacting to what Dora told him when they broke up. I mean, the reason Dora said she broke up with him was because she was worried he still had feelings for Faye, right? Perhaps in his drunken state he thought he might as well do what Dora obviously expected of him, which is basically act like a jerk and go after Faye.
I kinda assumed that Faye's last statement was to be taken as "I knocked you out, so you probably won't remember what you've done when you wake up"...
I took it as a reference to him downing a whole bottle of bourbon.
Heh. Marten dies, comic barely slows down. People making inappropriate comments and stream-of-consciousness jokes when they find he's not moving. Wisecracking coroners joking bawdily about rigor mortis. People divvying up his record collection and making indie jokes. Yeah, I can kinda see that happening. ;)QuoteA concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.
Marten dies, comic lives on. I could totally see it happening and becoming a much better comic because of it
Who's Faye's gonna lean on now? She doesn't know Angus well enough yet, and she sure as hell can't tell Dora about this. Who's left?
I'm highly tempted to just post a youtube link to M. Bison's "Yes! Yes!" video...but I don't think anyone does that sort of thing on these forums.
1) Sorry, can't see that right hand in the third panel. It's kind of angled toward Faye's special area, and dude, NOT OKAY. Drunk friend, even drunk best friend, starts spewing out entitlement garbage about how he "paved the way" for other guys to fuck me then starts with the "gimme a kiss" and wandering hands, that has the potential to be frightening. It's not rape, of course it isn't, but that would be traumatizing (or triggering) for a lot of people; it might even have a long-term impact on my ability to trust that friend, rationally justified or not.
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.
She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
Agreeing overall with your point here, but am I just misremembering things? Because, my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye> (Justabouteveryoneelse. OnEarth.)->Marten. I mean, we've seen Faye actually scared of Dora at one point, right?
Replace 'hot' with 'handy' and I think you've got it. Thank god Hanners left when she did. She really might've accidentally killed him. Or not accidentally, if she had one of her 'moments.'Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.
Nothing girly about it.Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent. Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.
Nah, I'd say it's a simpler "I'm drunk, she's hot" situation, although I could be wrong.
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.
Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
Re: how sad this isYeah, I agree. I think that this is sad but also reasonable and over due.
Same here - this was a heartbreaking strip to read. For me, even more so than the breakup. I'm having trouble speculating about the ramifications in future strips because I can't quite figure out how seriously this will be treated. I think it's because today defied by expectations for QC so much (not in a bad way... just in a... um, defying way).
(back to lurk-and-continued-observations)
(oh, hi, this is a bummer of a first post ever here)
She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
Agreeing overall with your point here, but am I just misremembering things? Because, my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye> (Justabouteveryoneelse. OnEarth.)->Marten. I mean, we've seen Faye actually scared of Dora at one point, right?
Scared and physically tough or two different things.
On that scale of psychological fear, it would even have Marten's Mom > Everyone else > Marten.
Well... this can only be settled one way: QC Fighting Game, Street Fighter style.
(Of course, we all know Hanners wins by developing a style that ends up being super-precise nerve strikes, so she can touch people as little as possible. ;) )
Martin's been a good friend to her and has helped her sort her stuff out. Martin took her at face value, and gave her up because she wasn't up to having a relationship. He attempted to move on, shoving his feelings for her aside and exploring his feelings for Dora.
Yeah, that would make anyone wonder. It comes back to "Why wasn't it me?". Now he's dumped, and Faye has her new boyfriend. The snark says "I've been used." And I wonder if in some sense he hasn't.
Well... this can only be settled one way: QC Fighting Game, Street Fighter style.
(Of course, we all know Hanners wins by developing a style that ends up being super-precise nerve strikes, so she can touch people as little as possible. ;) )
That's... not true at all. Hanners bringing the worry hat and Hanners drinking on that filthy couch. Marten's mom flying in. Faye helping Marten process the ridiculousness of Dora's paranoia, raging out a bit, and then accepting Marten's point of view to stay calm. Tai hugging Marten. Faye coming home early to make sure Marten's OK.
Clearly, this sucks for everyone in their social circle, and so far, Hanners is kind of still a friend to both, Faye is/was still closer to Marten, Tai is definitely closer to Marten, and Sven of course is on Dora's side, but still nice to Marten (in his horribly unhelpful way.) I don't think Dora is getting all the sympathy while Marten is suffering alone AT ALL.
But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting. Hanners gave Marten his worry hat back but still treated him like a child, admittedly, because of they way Marten explained about how the worry hat worked, and Hanners has slept on that couch on at least two occasions, sitting on it is alright after a scalding shower. Tai just thinks that Marten is missing free coffee and baked goods, and even insulted him before giving him a hug (which is negated but the bad attempt at a nipple joke). Sven? Well, Sven acted like Sven. Veronica invited herself even despite Marten's protests.
As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway). Look at when Sven slept with Gina Riversmith. Marten went home and comforted Faye, put an arm around her. Now that Dora and Marten have broken up, Faye has threatened violence, then again, there probably isn't a day where the resident southern belle hasn't threatened someone with violence. But she never asked if he was ok. As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.
Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.
Nothing girly about it.
Heh. Marten dies, comic barely slows down. People making inappropriate comments and stream-of-consciousness jokes when they find he's not moving. Wisecracking coroners joking bawdily about rigor mortis. People divvying up his record collection and making indie jokes. Yeah, I can kinda see that happening. ;)QuoteA concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.
Marten dies, comic lives on. I could totally see it happening and becoming a much better comic because of it
Replace 'hot' with 'handy' and I think you've got it. Thank god Hanners left when she did. She really might've accidentally killed him. Or not accidentally, if she had one of her 'moments.'Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.
Nothing girly about it.Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent. Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.
Nah, I'd say it's a simpler "I'm drunk, she's hot" situation, although I could be wrong.
And anyone else see Faye giving payback for when Marten overdid it ragging her about her drinking? Way back when—pre-Faye and Sven.
Hey, that rhymes…
Martin's been a good friend to her and has helped her sort her stuff out. Martin took her at face value, and gave her up because she wasn't up to having a relationship. He attempted to move on, shoving his feelings for her aside and exploring his feelings for Dora.
If he did any of those things with the expectation of some sort of "return on investment" pass to get Faye-booty, then he isn't a very good friend. Friends help each other because they want to help each other, not because there is some quid pro quo situation. Being nice to someone when they are depressed or hurting is not a free pass into their pants and the perception that it somehow should be is why some guys/girls get mean in this kind of situation (not necessarily Marten).Yeah, that would make anyone wonder. It comes back to "Why wasn't it me?". Now he's dumped, and Faye has her new boyfriend. The snark says "I've been used." And I wonder if in some sense he hasn't.
Not used. He freely offered help and compassion to Faye. If he hoped to get something more than friendship in return, it is not her fault for not reciprocating.
I honestly hope that is not the direction that Marten takes. He could use this as a way to work on himself and learn that, even when something hurts, it isn't necessarily all about you - or any about you for that matter. I would hate to think that he is that duplicitous, but if you'd asked me yesterday, I'd have said he wasn't capable of today's comic either.
I agree Geoffthellama, some people are taking this way too far, its like they want the cops called on either of them. Like when a lawyer makes his client wear bandages and a sling for a harmless scrape.
And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.
Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now? Please?
It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move. I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there. He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat? At least that's what might have been going through her head. Hell, it would have been going through mine.
Also, homicide? Really? Really?
Oh, hey guys...lets just overreact once again over something that was meant to be funny. Marten was being a jerk...whether or not he deserved a punch, I don't know. But he did deserve something. Sometimes a nice smack around is what makes him wake up a bit and realize that life doesn't end with Dora. And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass. If that was the case, then he did deserve it. But I rather not overanalyze this and I'm not trying to be a troll. But Jesus, people...is it so hard to ask to just enjoy the webcomic for what it is?
fffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.
Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now? Please?
It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move. I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there. He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat? At least that's what might have been going through her head. Hell, it would have been going through mine.
Also, homicide? Really? Really?
In case we are miscommunicating: Homicide = extreme/NOT justified, is what I meant; a number of posts seem to be saying that even punching him was too extreme.
And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass.
my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye
The Audience wouldn't care for very long either, we're very fickle people for the most part when it comes to this stuff (does anyone miss the guy that owned the Linux AnthroPC, for example?).
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.
Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.
Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.
Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.
Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.
Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.
I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!
I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!
The problem is that what he said was more true than false. And, not to sound like an apologist, but wouldn't Faye need to apologize for, I dunno, knocking marten out? I don't know about your circle of friends, but violence is worse than words.
Taking the comic and blowing it out of all proportion is half the fun here.
I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!
I was going to say that, but she very specifically shot that option down previously with SCIENCE!
And NO, i DONT think Faye will tell about the nights shenanigans to ANYONE.
Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.
Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.
Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."
Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.
Ehh, I don't think so either, but I'm not going to blame her if she's shaken up and actually does need to talk to someone about her best friend's transformation into Mr. Creepball Hyde. Given her options, her therapist would be the most plausible and responsible, though her boyfriend is most readily available. Kind of hoping we don't go there, because it might make Angus a little less mature about the conversation he and Faye had earlier, potentially make this depressing situation even more depressing. Or hilarious, depending on how you feel about drunken breakup drama.
As a survivor of more than one sexual assault, I would have reacted just as violently as Faye to a drunken male friend attempting to grab me and force a kiss. Survival instincts. I may or may not forgive him later, taking the booze and emotional state into account, but the fight-or-flight instinctual reaction would be the same. Marten deserved a physical reaction. Faye's reaction may have been more violent than was necessary when viewed in purely logical hindsight, but when that sort of situation is occurring, the will to survive overrides all of that and expecting her to only apply the minimum necessary amount of force is unfair and unrealistic.
He grabbed her crotch?
This looks like a job for Billy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADr866IewMI)
WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!
WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!
Today's comic was bound to generate a lot of discussion, and it did. And nearly all of it has been pretty much to the point, thoughtful, often founded in personal experience, etc. Some "over imaginative" ideas have popped up, but have been let drop, and only a couple of those would have spurred me into moderatorial action if they had been taken further. I must admit, I had expected a harder day!
Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now? Please?
Oh, my comment was directed at Laminator X*. Pretty sure we're in agreement here.
*EDIT TO FIX NAME BECAUSE I FAIL
Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.
Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.
He didn't do it to get a free pass.
But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.
And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.
Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten :roll:).
Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten :roll:).
Oddly enough, it was just this past Saturday when I was talking to a friend of mine about how I fully expect that I would get in trouble for "overdoing it" if I ever needed to defend myself (so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood). My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt. (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)
Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.
(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).
I'm gonna second that, being both a fat girl and a survivor of sexual assault. Please learn how to defend yourself. It might save your life.(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).
Not just fallacy - outright lie.
Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.
My apologies if I wasn't clear. It just seems that Dora seems to be getting a lot of sympathy from the others, while Marten has barely gotten a "How are you feeling?" There is a difference between needing to be left alone and to be given some space. Marten most likely needs to be left alone, and needs to be given some space. But at the same time, his friends should feel concern for Marten, but also know when they aren't helping by being up in his face. Sorry if there was some confusion there.
But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting.
Hanners gave Marten his worry hat back but still treated him like a child, admittedly, because of they way Marten explained about how the worry hat worked, and Hanners has slept on that couch on at least two occasions, sitting on it is alright after a scalding shower. Tai just thinks that Marten is missing free coffee and baked goods, and even insulted him before giving him a hug (which is negated but the bad attempt at a nipple joke). Sven? Well, Sven acted like Sven. Veronica invited herself even despite Marten's protests.
As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway). Look at when Sven slept with Gina Riversmith. Marten went home and comforted Faye, put an arm around her. Now that Dora and Marten have broken up, Faye has threatened violence, then again, there probably isn't a day where the resident southern belle hasn't threatened someone with violence. But she never asked if he was ok. As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.
He didn't do it to get a free pass.
But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.
And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.
And Faye of all people should understand that feeling (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=984).
I suspect this will blow over fairly quickly, though I must confess I will squeal delightedly if she also calls back to the moment I referenced.
Faye didn't really react rationally either. It triggered her old habit of punching anyone that gets too near her, be it physically or mentally. Not the long-term thing though, not now. Just a punch, and the matter is settled.
Heh. Excessively violent with judo.
Although you could break limbs yeah.
He drank an entire bottle of alcohol, which--and I will wield this particular dickbroom with wild gesticulations and frothing rage until people get it--does not make you truthful, it is a brain poison, it makes you STUPID.
Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.
Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."
Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.
Right. And Faye judged the situation based on how it looked, since I'm guessing (unless Jeph's really going to give us a plot twist later) that Faye is not psychic and cannot read Marten's mind. :psyduck:
He grabbed her crotch?
I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.
He grabbed (or made a grab for) her. That's not OK, and she did what she felt she needed to do (or reacted instinctually to threat, but I can't blame her for it). I don't like violence myself, but I can empathise with the reation.
Okay, except that 1.) Marten pushed Faye away, insisting he'd be fine and that he'd prefer to be alone, and 2.) Faye is not his mother. Her life isn't going to come to a screeching halt because her best friend's love life imploded. She's not going to hover over him like a mother hen after he asked for space and then have him resent her for it.
In other words, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's fair to pick on Faye for allowing her life to go on despite her adult friend's personal problems, particularly since she's given every indication that she intends to be there for him as much as he needs her.
Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ? Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.Drunkenness is not an excuse or a free pass, no matter how often Rugby League players and other louts use it in defence of their actions in court in Australia. Unlike the blindness or disablement you apparently regard as comparable conditions, drunkenness is a choice. People who pour alcohol down their own throats until they lose control of themselves are, in my opinion at least, wholly responsible for what they do while drunk. Drunk guys can be very scary to be around, and are potentially extremely dangerous. I utterly reject the very widespread idea that they are somehow entitled to indulgent treatment.
I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends. They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.I would say that they are different only in degree, not in what they are. The drunk guy who thinks he's got a right of feel you up, even after you say no, and the full-on rapist, both are saying "what I want is important and I'm entitled to have it, your feelings don't count". That makes both of them bad people (though we are all bad people to some extent IMHO). The drunk is very much less bad than the rapist, but in the morning, I would still re-evaluate whether I still wanted to be their friend. A lot, for me, would depend on whether they took responsibility for their actions, or tried to cop out with the "I was drunk" excuse.
Dear Internet, [...]
even if you notice a bad exception more than a bad routine, the former should be dealt with less harshly than the latter.
<snip>
My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt. (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)
I think I'm starting to like New Marten. He still got his drunk ass knocked out, but he's venting finally. Bet that one was building up for a loooooong god damn time. Totally all true. Faye spilled her guts and then started making out with every boy that wasn't Marten or Steve. THAT IS A DICK MOVE! You cannot claim it isn't. Eat an umbrella stand's worth of dickbrooms, it is a dick move.
With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
Dear Internet,
A few years ago, a friend of mine went through a drawn-out situation at his work that mirrored the situation we see here with Marten and Faye, at least in how the characters are viewed by people on the outside of a given situation. It has nothing to do with drinking or sex though, so it's not quite as fun, but bear with me anyway. There's a point on the other side of this.
So my friend was working as a security guard at a fairly major corporate headquarters as a college job. He's the kind of guy who you'd trust with anything in your life: watching your house while you're on vacation, getting your mail, watching your kids, driving you to the hospital as your aorta tears, and so on. He's the most trustworthy, responsible person I've ever known. Anyways, he was on time to his job without fail, always in full, perfectly cleaned and ironed uniform, ready to go, and never got so much as a "Very Good" on a performance review. The person who would relieve him at midnight, however, was a walking, talking, 175-pound sack of worthless shit. He'd ROUTINELY be 1-2 hours late for his shift with no warning call, would often show up out of uniform (one time he came in wearing his shirt that had a huge ketchup stain on it, sweatpants, and ONE FLIP-FLOP.) I swear to God I'm not making any of this up.
It took this stumblefuck mess of a man being FOUR HOURS LATE to his job on multiple occasions before the bosses gave him so much as a verbal warning, and then after that, no follow-up whatsoever. In contrast, my friend got caught in traffic ONE TIME, resulting in him being a whopping fifteen minutes late. For this transgression, he was called into a meeting and threatened with termination, even though it was his first incident and he called ahead to give fair warning. The reasoning given for the much harsher reaction was that "the 4-12 shift is more important than the 12-8 shift, because you deal directly with the client and your relief doesn't."
So, to sum up:
1) Punctual, professional, excellent worker is fifteen minutes late one time = job threatened.
2) A completely unprofessional, chronically late, irresponsible jackass is late almost every night = nothing but a "talking-to."
Here's how this relates to the current story: Marten represents my friend: kind, good to the core, never steps on anyone's toes, helps those in need, and so on. He crosses the line ONCE and others come down on him with the force of God for his transgression. There is to be no forgiveness, and any metaphorical (or literal) kick to the teeth is "justified." His colleague is represented by the remainder of the cast: they're all completely messed up in one way or another, and yet nobody gets too upset when they do something wrong, despite it being a common occurrence. It's brushed off as, "well, that's Faye" or, "well, they're getting better at controlling their rage" or something like that.
Why is that? Why do the "good guys" get shit on so much harder when they screw up, no matter how rarely it happens?
Sort of off topic, but-Why is it that as soon as trouble comes, these characters reach for alcohol? Is this common for 20 somethings? I do know people like this, but they are the exception, not the norm.
ETA:With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
ETA:With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
ETA:With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said. Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!
ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment. Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no? That is. And it's STILL not rape.
ETA:With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said. Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!
ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment. Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no? That is. And it's STILL not rape.
Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes. My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess. And reread the comic. Faye never says no to Martens advance. She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out. I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.
I really feel that a lot of people in this topic are equating 'hitting on a girl' with 'rapist'. As has been pointed out, Marten was leaning on Faye originally so he wouldn't fall down, and just sort of stayed there through the rest of what he said. I refuse to believe A) that he would go for a grab on Faye, it's an awkwardly drawn angle and B) if he did, that Jeph would make it in any way debatable. With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment. That's a drunk dude being drunk. If that was sexual assault/harassment, what Dora did to Marten when she first kissed him was sexual assault/harassment because she forced it on him as a surprise. Men would never be allowed to say anything in your world.There is a difference between "hitting on" a girl, and subjecting her to a drunken pawing, even after she's made it clear that it's not welcome. Drunkenness does not give anyone a license to be a dick, or to escape responsibility for their words and actions. Even if Marten was only leaning on Faye for support in Panel 2, he was not in the same position in Panel 3. Faye was pushing him away, and he was no longer leaning any weight on her. A guy doesn't have to go for a "grab" to step over the line, just not stop when he's asked to, and Faye's push away, facial expression, and "you're being a dick" amount to a clear Red Light.
Skipped the long quote thing because it was getting long.
Marten kind of had Faye with the 'you like jerks though' line, though.
Faye had arguments with Sven and then had sex with him. She also told Sven on multiple occasions that they'd never have anything happen, but it still did. Yet Marten being a jerk and being told it can't happen = NO. That's absurd. Marten was wrong, but all makes a kind of sense to the point that I find it hard to condemn the guy. It's not like he forced anything on her. He raised the idea and got punched out. Even if he was going to, Faye reacted prior to the harassment.
Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes. My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess. And reread the comic. Faye never says no to Martens advance. She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out. I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.
Skipped the long quote thing because it was getting long.
Marten kind of had Faye with the 'you like jerks though' line, though. Faye had arguments with Sven and then had sex with him. She also told Sven on multiple occasions that they'd never have anything happen, but it still did. Yet Marten being a jerk and being told on previous occasions that it can't happen = NO. That's absurd. Marten was wrong, but all makes a kind of sense to the point that I find it hard to condemn the guy. It's not like he forced anything on her. He raised the idea and got punched out. Even if he was going to, Faye reacted prior to the harassment.
But then again, for all we can tell, Marten may have just been trying to be a dick. He's been known to get snarky on occassion and some liquid libation lubricant may have loosened his tongue too much. I do feel for the guy, I do. Many many of us have said things under the influence that seemed fine and rational at the time that turned out to be competely over the line, and now Marten has to deal with said consequences.
If he did any of those things with the expectation of some sort of "return on investment" pass to get Faye-booty, then he isn't a very good friend. Friends help each other because they want to help each other, not because there is some quid pro quo situation. Being nice to someone when they are depressed or hurting is not a free pass into their pants and the perception that it somehow should be is why some guys/girls get mean in this kind of situation (not necessarily Marten).
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
Seconded. Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal. I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing. There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned. Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so. As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes. However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise. My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
Seconded. Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal. I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing. There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned. Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so. As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes. However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise. My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?
By the legal definition, yes.
Your intent/motives don't count for shit. Even a 3rd party that doesn't like what they saw can report you. Even if the woman that was the target of your attentions actually liked what you were doing. As long as someone there wasn't happy, whether your intent was malicious or not, you are guilty.
Edit for clarity: And no, I've never been accused or convicted of sexual harassment, so you can't just pass this off as sour grapes. It's just literally how the laws are set up.
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
Seconded. Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal. I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing. There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned. Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so. As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes. However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise. My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?
By the legal definition, yes.
Your intent/motives don't count for shit. Even a 3rd party that doesn't like what they saw can report you. Even if the woman that was the target of your attentions actually liked what you were doing. As long as someone there wasn't happy, whether your intent was malicious or not, you are guilty.
Edit for clarity: And no, I've never been accused or convicted of sexual harassment, so you can't just pass this off as sour grapes. It's just literally how the laws are set up.
Well then, that's just fucking stupid. So if I'm with my wife of almost ten years, and I give her a playful tap on the butt or a quick smooch, and someone across the street doesn't like it, they can report me to the police and I can be cited for sexual harassment?
Again, fucking stupid.
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?
That depends. Is the person eating at the time?
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?
That depends. Is the person eating at the time?
is a frosty considered eating or drinking?
Harassment is not generally a *single* instance of misbehavior, that would be characterized more accurately as a sexual molestation or assault. Harassment is more accurately described as a series of events or a more pervasive creation of a hostile environment, such as in a work situation, which can involve verbal comments, persistent come on's ect. and don't necessarily have to involve a sexual assault to be actionable. And yes, you are generally given a chance to hear "NO" in regards to a verbal advance. After that, it's breaching the "harassment" line. No one is a mind reader-someone's level of "unhappiness" is not the meter in that situation. Physical touching, especially depending on where, is an exception. For example, you don't have to say "no" in order have a right to not be fondled or otherwise sexually violated. But just saying "give me a kiss..." is hardly an assault.
His verbal actions alone would not constitute assault or molestation and as this is not a work situation "harassment" wouldn't be the appropriate term. The one more likely to be charged, based on what we can see here, would be Faye, as she hit Martin, when she could have simply left the apartment or sought another option. Since this is a domestic situation, both would likely be taken in for questioning as that is the usual protocol in DV situations these days. I could be wrong, but I was a DV educator and case worker for several years and have some familiarity with the topic.
how fucking continuous is this going to get
True, harassment law is generally more applicable to employment situations, as it was mainly created to keep scumbags from using access to continued employment/advancement as a form of extortion.
But in those situations, all it takes is one screw up or misinterpretation that in more than a few States to allow an employer to terminate you- and you have little to no recourse other than litigation that will likely go nowhere, and your career is already tainted.
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?
That depends. Is the person eating at the time?
is a frosty considered eating or drinking?
Eating at first, drinking twenty minutes later.
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?
I still maintain he was joking but it was terribly insensitive and faye decked him. Which would be in character for both of them. So lets move on. :psyduck:
Except this is more like the tone-deaf people that sing at the top of their lungs in subway cars. All-around terrible for everyone but themselves.How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?
I don't think anyone ever said it was a GOOD idea.
I mean, strapping a piece of thin fabric to your back and then jumping out of an AIRBORNE PLANE isn't really a good idea, but a lot of people seem to enjoy it.
my cat does this, he is deaf and just walks around meowing loudly and doing nothing.
One thing to keep in mind is that Marten has been drinking alone while having reason to be depressed for, like, probably hours now since Hanners left. Meanwhile, Faye has been out making out with Angus. That set off my 'shouldn't you be with Marten? He's always been there for you' alarms yesterday and I'm sober and only thought about it for a minute. Poor guy's super drunk and had a long time to build up resentment. 'Why is Faye with Angus and not here' is a question that could reasonably lead a drunk person to reach the conclusions he has. Does that excuse his behavior? No. But really, Faye made out with Angus the whole night the day after an earth-shattering moment for her best friend. I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.I don't think this is really fair to Faye. Recall, too, that Faye has been left sitting on her own in the dumps while Marten was out with Dora—in fact, as memory serves, that's what perciptated the whole karaoke—go to Sven's place—sleep with him thing.
Ah, to heli with her. Just take it. :evil:Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.
I'll add that line to my sig, if that's ok with the author...
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been posed, but has anyone brought of the double standard? For instance, let's say after Faye broke up with Sven, she got drunk. Really drunk. (She probably did, but bear with me) She then goes to Martin, who's still with Dora at the time. For whatever reason, she decides to make a move on Marten, and perhaps gets a bit handsy and makes similar comments that Marten made.
And Marten steps back and knocks her out. Is this acceptable? Fuck no.
Am I saying the situations are the same? No. But it's a little disturbing how people seem to think Faye's punching Marten was not, at the very least, a gross overreaction.
:psyduck: Psyduck agrees, I'm sure.
(ie. Faye saw predators everywhere that were gonna grab her-even in Martin pre dinner with his mom)I don't suppose it's a stretch to suggest that Faye's mom wasn't too helpful (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=355) in this matter.
One thing to keep in mind is that Marten has been drinking alone while having reason to be depressed for, like, probably hours now since Hanners left. Meanwhile, Faye has been out making out with Angus. That set off my 'shouldn't you be with Marten? He's always been there for you' alarms yesterday and I'm sober and only thought about it for a minute. Poor guy's super drunk and had a long time to build up resentment. 'Why is Faye with Angus and not here' is a question that could reasonably lead a drunk person to reach the conclusions he has. Does that excuse his behavior? No. But really, Faye made out with Angus the whole night the day after an earth-shattering moment for her best friend. I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.I don't think this is really fair to Faye. Recall, too, that Faye has been left sitting on her own in the dumps while Marten was out with Dora—in fact, as memory serves, that's what perciptated the whole karaoke—go to Sven's place—sleep with him thing.
I don't think we'll see concussions. Faye punched a lot more and way harder (it has to be harder to punch a non-drunk person to the ground) and we never saw anything coming near to the realistic consequences of such beatings.You're probably right, but still, it wouldn't be the first time (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1156) a character has had to deal with a concussion in the strip.
I always felt the punches were overdone for comedic effect, otherwise Marten would never have stayed with her or just kicked her out of his apartment. Seriously, that would have been serious abuse, and their relationship could not have developed that way.
my cat does this, he is deaf and just walks around meowing loudly and doing nothing.
But cats do that when they aren't deaf as well.
But I just ignore them until they do something that actually entertains me.
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him. Literally any time. The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing. Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.
Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short. Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye! Going to Dora's place'.
Daaaaaaaaaaang. Shit just got real in QC!
I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him. Literally any time. The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing. Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.
Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short. Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye! Going to Dora's place'.
Actually, the first thing Faye did was stay up and wait for Marten to get home. And then they talked about it.
Then the next day she cut her plans short so that she could go and check to see how Marten was doing.
Alright, just clarifying, but there are viewpoints here other than "Marten deserved to get punched" and "Faye is a terrible friend", right? Because neither of those ring true to me.THANK YOU! ive been saying that forever!
Faye stayed up to see what happened and then Marten went right to bed. In the morning they talked for a few minutes and he said 'don't hurt Dora'. Then Faye went to work, then out with Angus for hot make-outs. She cut her plans slightly short (she wasn't going to stay the night and bang him or anything, it couldn't have been more than an hour shorter than she'd usually leave) to go and see how Marten was doing. Her first words through the door weren't 'how do you feel', they were 'OMG you drank HOW MUCH?'. Remember the big deal when Marten accidentally implied Faye was an alcoholic? Yeah, she kind of did the same thing here, meaning she messed up twice as a 'friend'.
Faye stayed up to see what happened and then Marten went right to bed. In the morning they talked for a few minutes and he said 'don't hurt Dora'. Then Faye went to work, then out with Angus for hot make-outs. She cut her plans slightly short (she wasn't going to stay the night and bang him or anything, it couldn't have been more than an hour shorter than she'd usually leave) to go and see how Marten was doing. Her first words through the door weren't 'how do you feel', they were 'OMG you drank HOW MUCH?'. Remember the big deal when Marten accidentally implied Faye was an alcoholic? Yeah, she kind of did the same thing here, meaning she messed up twice as a 'friend'.
(1) Alcoholic does not mean "got drunk". Nor does it mean "got really drunk". Nothing Faye said implied alcoholism.
(2) You're just factually incorrect. They talked at CoD. She stayed up and made herself available again later that evening. Then they talked again the next morning. Then she came home early in case he needed to talk again. The only way she could make herself more available would be to tether herself to Marty and follow him around all day.
I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him. Literally any time. The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing. Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.
Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short. Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye! Going to Dora's place'.
if today is a yelling bird comic im going to shit my pants before my finals.
Again, this is like Marten saying "Oh, sorry that you're worried about Angus, Faye, but I'm making out with Dora in here. I'll come talk to you in a few hours" and slamming the bedroom door in her face after she knocked that one night.
Alright, just clarifying, but there are viewpoints here other than "Marten deserved to get punched" and "Faye is a terrible friend", right? Because neither of those ring true to me.
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been posed, but has anyone brought of the double standard? For instance, let's say after Faye broke up with Sven, she got drunk. Really drunk. (She probably did, but bear with me) She then goes to Martin, who's still with Dora at the time. For whatever reason, she decides to make a move on Marten, and perhaps gets a bit handsy and makes similar comments that Marten made.
And Marten steps back and knocks her out. Is this acceptable? Fuck no.
Am I saying the situations are the same? No. But it's a little disturbing how people seem to think Faye's punching Marten was not, at the very least, a gross overreaction.
:psyduck: Psyduck agrees, I'm sure.
The talk at CoD was prior to Marten realizing there was actually a problem, and even then their 'talk' was Faye saying 'WOW you're bitter'. Gold medal for understanding to: not Faye. And despite your strawman, there's one key way she could have helped Marten out. 'Sorry Angus, I can't come make out with you tonight. Marten needs me, I'm going to drink with him and Hanners. How about we get together tomorrow night instead?"
Again, this is like Marten saying "Oh, sorry that you're worried about Angus, Faye, but I'm making out with Dora in here. I'll come talk to you in a few hours" and slamming the bedroom door in her face after she knocked that one night.
Of course, at this point I'm pretty sure this has been said already. Fuck it. I ain't posting another word till next comic is up.quothe the raven: nevermore!
Another +1 on the Fayometer.maybe he uses the random button he installed.
I sometimes wonder how Jeph keeps track of everything that's happened in this comic, and returns to references so well. I mean, Comic 150?
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?
Also, Jesus Christ, people say DUMB SHIT when they're incoherently drunk. That comic was not some nefarious attempt by Marten to guilt Faye into fucking him. HE DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF BOURBON. HIS BRAIN WAS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.
goddamnit see this is why I stopped posting in these threads for years, the more I have to explain the most basic shit to some people the angrier and angrier I get
Another +1 on the Fayometer.
I sometimes wonder how Jeph keeps track of everything that's happened in this comic, and returns to references so well. I mean, Comic 150?
Apparently, I should just stop posting anything that might be controversial, because I think I accidentally hit all the points Jeph would prefer I not talk about.
Combined with the fact that I, according to several people, can't convey any position other than an extreme (and extremely stupid one) even when that's really not what I meant, I'm just going to apologize to everyone, especially you, Jeph, and police what I post more thoroughly.
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on. It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before. And think three times before posting yourself.
The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court. Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.
...but if you honestly think something that (relatively) harmess qualifies as HARASSMENT I do not understand how you can get through your daily life without constantly suing people or pressing charges.
But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.[/i]
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on. It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before. And think three times before posting yourself.
The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court. Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.
Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.
Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.
Apparently, I should just stop posting anything that might be controversial, because I think I accidentally hit all the points Jeph would prefer I not talk about.
Combined with the fact that I, according to several people, can't convey any position other than an extreme (and extremely stupid one) even when that's really not what I meant, I'm just going to apologize to everyone, especially you, Jeph, and police what I post more thoroughly.
Edit: And I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not used to being 'that guy', and it's not a good feeling.
Jeph, thank you. You're a wonderful human being. Just.....thanks :-)
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.[/i]
For what it's worth, I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR. It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.
I cant help but feel I should repeat posting what I posted before - there is no way marten could POSSIBLY do ANYTHING to Faye.You forget: Women have a weak spot. If grabbed on the upper arm by a man, they are incapacitated.
She's simply STRONGER than him.
See, for example: Curse my puny indie-rock physique! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1313) (and we talk about Hanners here, the probably most lightweight of all characters on QC !)
Compare to: Faye, you're a cute, intelligent girl who can punch harder than any of the jocks who used to beat me up. You're fuckin' terrifying. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=162)
It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.
I must say, I prefer this sober-but-irritated Jeph to the Jeph that posts shock images and porn.
For what it's worth, I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR. It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.Fair enough. I'm taking a look at myself.
Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.
Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
A) I'm pretty sure she meant emotionally and B) I suspect Veronica would've beaned a friend who tried that on her herself. Also, C) as has been pointed out, who's going to tell her? The poor, framed owl? Ther\y don't talk too much, even in their own defense.Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.
Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
<snip>
...Also, C) as has been pointed out, who's going to tell her? The poor, framed owl? Ther\y don't talk too much, even in their own defense.
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
A lot of this is the bourbon talking, too. It's simplified his outlook and view of the situation, 'cause face it, you can't analyse anything complex when inebriated. Drunken epiphanies are garbage in the sober light of day.
I can actually hear his slurring of "Commere an' gimme a..." (Why do "stinkin" drunks seem to always wanna kiss someone?)
In some ways it's unfortunate that he probably won't remember this. Because Faye will.
Always.
Sorry, this isn't shedding much light on Marten's fundamental character, but it's more along the lines that what we're seeing in 1818 isn't really his fundamental character - it's a proto-Marten, like a laptop running in "Safe" mode - severely impaired at best.
That's a helluva lot of bourbon for a skinny kid, even counting Hanner's glass (which he probably finished off after she left).
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
And if it is not, can Jeph sue himself???*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
Marten may not be able to reason through the 'owls' explanation right now, but he's probably going to realize upon recovering that Faye probably didn't actually mean owls. And then it will occur to him that Faye must have had a good reason to blame the sore skull on the owls, rather than tell him what really caused it, and then he will hopefully drop the matter without saying something, because he really should trust Faye about these things. She's definitely a better influence than the beast of bourbon.
Also, I'm pretty sure Marten already knows what "Owls" means.
Fuckin' owls man, you can't trust them. They're like green space-born Welsh ninjas.
I'm gonna second that, being both a fat girl and a survivor of sexual assault. Please learn how to defend yourself. It might save your life.(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).Not just fallacy - outright lie.
Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?
can we stop comparing "who has the most compassion for a friend" dickhead points here?
they dont have to be equal, they are friends not acquaintances, and if marten really wanted her to be there while he began drinking he would have called or texted her saying "i could use a friend right now"
...but if you honestly think something that (relatively) harmess qualifies as HARASSMENT I do not understand how you can get through your daily life without constantly suing people or pressing charges.
I've worked with people like this at Harbec and Webster Tool And Die. They exist and they make life a living hell for everyone around them.
Imagine not being able to say "good morning, here is your work assignment" without being hauled into HR. "Unwelcome advances." Can't give them instructions, because everything you say is an innuendo and it makes them feel "uncomfortable" and creates a "hostile environment."
Frankly people who behave like that are the WORST sort of asshole and do not deserve employment.
OWLS!
Everyone is fond of Owls
Except for mice and shrews
and Simon Cowells
OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180° they have no idea how to walk backwards.
I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.
Uh, I doubt that was the kind of damage Mrs Reed was talking about ...Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.
Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
Poll option: Faye actually being NICE to a customer.
What the hell is in any way normal about that?
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on. It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before. And think three times before posting yourself.
The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court. Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.
Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.
Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
I'm betting it'd be super boring.
"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone. Maybe it IS me. :psyduck:We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
I'm betting it'd be super boring.
"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."
Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.
Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
At least she didn't say "space owls."
Also, Jesus Christ, people say DUMB SHIT when they're incoherently drunk. That comic was not some nefarious attempt by Marten to guilt Faye into fucking him. HE DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF BOURBON. HIS BRAIN WAS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.
goddamnit see this is why I stopped posting in these threads for years, the more I have to explain the most basic shit to some people the angrier and angrier I get
I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on. It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before. And think three times before posting yourself.
The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court. Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.
Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.
Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.
I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone. Maybe it IS me. :psyduck:We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
I'm betting it'd be super boring.
"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."
Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.
Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.
That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.
What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?
And this, laddies and jellyspoons, is why you don't drink a whole lion at once.
What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?
Dammit, Odin, you're such a one-note monkey!
Look, you keep saying "read your other posts", so I did. Several of them. Many are filled with calling other forumites morons or trolls, most have specious arguments gleaned from what must be a scanning of the archive, since you seem to have no grasp of a lot of the details of the story. People who point out your fallacies are ignored, and ... well, I'm getting tired of it, really.
Just ignoring the preponderance of the evidence and running around screaming "Marten's a spineless NiceGuyTM" does NOT make it true.
Whether Marten is still a Nice Guy or not remains to be seen, but at the very beginning of this comic he pretty much was. Jeph may have redefined him recently, but we haven't actually seen it outside of his interactions with Hannelore and other people he has no romantic interest in.
Now go back, and really read the damn comics. I know it may be a challenge, but I think you'll find it's worth it. You also might want to try listening to other people. You don't have to agree with them, but if you actually listen to what they say, you may be able to refute them without simply calling them names.
Or you can go get a job at Fox news.
Either way, it should keep you busy for a while.
OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180° they have no idea how to walk backwards.
I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.
I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.
Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).
Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).
I dunno, when the author himself explains it as 'stupid shit' born from nothing but alcohol and writes off the idea that it's s indicative of any feelings he harbors deep down, I'd defer to him.
Also, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.
<snip> nested quotes for brevity
You obviously haven't been reading my other posts like you claim (this one is from this very thread):Whether Marten is still a Nice Guy or not remains to be seen, but at the very beginning of this comic he pretty much was. Jeph may have redefined him recently, but we haven't actually seen it outside of his interactions with Hannelore and other people he has no romantic interest in.
That was a pre-1818 comic comment.QuoteNow go back, and really read the damn comics. I know it may be a challenge, but I think you'll find it's worth it. You also might want to try listening to other people. You don't have to agree with them, but if you actually listen to what they say, you may be able to refute them without simply calling them names.
Or you can go get a job at Fox news.
Either way, it should keep you busy for a while.
I've already read them, thank you. You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy. Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).
I think Marten realizes that kind of thinking is unhealthy, but is suppressing it rather than trying to deal with it, which is why he acted the way he did when he got shitfaced.
As for calling other people on here morons, I already said in the conduct thread that I'd cut back on that, so unless you've got examples of me doing that since then bringing it up again isn't gaining you anything (never mind the borderline slur in your opening remark, pot/kettle, etc.).
Why is that? Why do the "good guys" get shit on so much harder when they screw up, no matter how rarely it happens?
Read this article (PDF) for a bit more clarity on why that particular argument is fallacious at best
This just keeps getting stranger and stranger. People should stop projecting their own problems and experiences on these characters and, if you must, analyze them instead based on the context of the story. This is not dismissing your pain or your experience if you've been sexually assaulted. I am simply saying that this comic is not attempting to make any statement about sexual assault or crime. Note, no assault happened, characters acted in ways they normally do (whether you like that she socked him or not) and things have moved on in the story.This, oh god, a million times this. Jesus christ.
Jeph said nothing to demean anyone's experience as a victim of sexual assault. Seriously? Talk about out of character. Don't know the guy but I definitely have seen NOTHING to lend itself to that interpretation.
Please, remember we are talking about the comic in here, not commenting on your real life experiences. Sometimes stories don't match reality and they definitely don't always match our personal realities. So, in commenting on his creation, this comic, he was in no way, I'm sure, meaning to make some statement about your situation.
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
I'm afraid such unethical practices are not unheard of in the academiae. For the purpose of making your list of publications look longer than it actually is. I am uncertain as to whether it is illegal, i.e. whether you could be tried for that in a court of law, but it is most certainly frowned upon.
I've scanned, and I dunno if I missed it, but how would Veronica's warning to Faye on harming Martin apply to this situation? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459)
This just keeps getting stranger and stranger. People should stop projecting their own problems and experiences on these characters and, if you must, analyze them instead based on the context of the story. This is not dismissing your pain or your experience if you've been sexually assaulted. I am simply saying that this comic is not attempting to make any statement about sexual assault or crime. Note, no assault happened, characters acted in ways they normally do (whether you like that she socked him or not) and things have moved on in the story.This, oh god, a million times this. Jesus christ.
Jeph said nothing to demean anyone's experience as a victim of sexual assault. Seriously? Talk about out of character. Don't know the guy but I definitely have seen NOTHING to lend itself to that interpretation.
Please, remember we are talking about the comic in here, not commenting on your real life experiences. Sometimes stories don't match reality and they definitely don't always match our personal realities. So, in commenting on his creation, this comic, he was in no way, I'm sure, meaning to make some statement about your situation.
QuoteAlso, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.
Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.
QuoteAlso, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.
Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.
You mean like this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1696)? :-P
I glanced through that article but it seems to be that it would be more applicable to a body of work where the author is unable to provide any information on that work.
But I get the general point. Words can have different meanings so anyone can interpret them as they see fit. As a result, it's not right to say any one person's interpretation of a literary work is wrong, no matter what that interpretation is.
I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation (as does the author), but I guess it's nice in that this article can defend anyone's thoughts on any literary work.
EDIT: I will note that you say the environment is designed for such discussions, and I do agree, but we've seen that such talk is somewhat limited. The wildest interpretations have not been treated kindly here.
My only disappointment is that the burbon did not bring him closer to Z̥̗̤͆ͦ̔̋ͬa̲̱͔̎͂l͈̭͍̤̱̞̫̠͖͊ͫ͟g̼̝̃̉͒̓̚o̰͓̞̝͙͓̫̤̝̅̈́̊͆.
His only sanctuary.
Read this article (PDF) for a bit more clarity on why that particular argument is fallacious at best
But that article doesn't quite say it's fallacious at best; it presents a comparison and discussion of five or so different points of view on intentionalism, with a clear bias away from actual intentionalism. It is easy to see how authors can get annoyed at critics when they argue that their work has a different meaning from that they intended, and all the more so when they have been persuaded (as in this case) to explain what the intended meaning is.
When I started to study Physics at university, I discovered an alternative called Engineering Science, and changed to it. I did this because it was more closely concerned with the real world I live in. Similarly, I have little time for this kind of philosophical argument, which I regard rather as a modern-day equivalent of counting the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin. You may see this as a failing in me - but I think it's not uncommon!
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
I'm afraid such unethical practices are not unheard of in the academiae. For the purpose of making your list of publications look longer than it actually is. I am uncertain as to whether it is illegal, i.e. whether you could be tried for that in a court of law, but it is most certainly frowned upon.
It has been brought to court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogerty_v._Fantasy), in one of the stupider things ever to occur in the judicial system, along with one of the most badass - Fogerty won the case by literally bringing a guitar to the witness stand.
You forget: Women have a weak spot. If grabbed on the upper arm by a man, they are incapacitated.
And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.
Ahhh, beat to the link! Coises.
And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.
Shhh - don't go overboard! :wink:
And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.
Shhh - don't go overboard! :wink:
That's such a cool script.
RewriteMap AviFile rnd:C:/WebPages/cassland.org/html/images/Avatars/AviList.txt
RewriteRule /images/QCavi.jpg /images/Avatars/${AviFile:QClist}.jpgAviList.txt contains lists of files, one of which is labelled QClist. The only restriction is that all the files need to be the same type so that Apache can send the right metadata (which is matched to the file type in the request).
Thank you for your comments. It is not the comic as much as the discussion here that bothers me. As this situation is too triggering and all of the "any reasonable/rational/sane" statements are the main cause, I will disengage from this thread.
QuoteAlso, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.
Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.
You mean like this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1696)? :-P
That being said, did Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra? Or maybe I like the whole "pajama pants and tank top look". PAGING DR. FREUD!You were repressed as a child, always made to wear very formal clothes, even to bed, by your opposite sex parent.And so, in your adulthood, you are attracted to the "messy" type. This is completely opposite to your parent because you deny your sexual feelings for that parent. You have repressed this therefore. And you can't deny it, for the theory is unfalsifiable. Even though repression doesn't actually happen;there are many proofs that people with "repressed" memories are forgetful and prone to suggestive questioning.
John Fogerty was once sued for essentially plagiarizing himself. The courts found in his favour, so I suspect that you are correct.*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
And as for padding your list of published works, that would be something completely different from plagarism (copying other's ideas without properly crediting them, theft for the literal minded).
did Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra?
Owls??!
The Owls??
Why is it I suddenly have the theme from Twin Peaks running though my head.
"The Owls are not what they seem." :-D
I just got back from Mass A Chew Shits where I spy'd on Jeph's super-secret script-writing process using some kind of SCIENCE!.You mean something along the lines of http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742)?
Tomorrow's comic: Martin hugs Faye: "Thank you for getting me to bed after I passed out" DORA WALKS IN and here "*static* me -- bed *static* I passed out *static*" sees them embracing and HELLA DRAMA happens.
You mean something along the lines of http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742)?
Given that she couldn't imply breakup-potential (obviously), would she threaten to fire Faye (again) or just fume in ineffectual rage? I think it would be more along the lines of jumping to conclusions, saying "Fuck it" and leaving.You mean something along the lines of http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742)?
Yup. :-P
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone. Maybe it IS me. :psyduck:We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
I'm betting it'd be super boring.
"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."
Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.
Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.
I am not necessarily all about Vashj'ir, but I loved running around fightan naga on my seahorse and how Goddamn pretty it was. It didn't really get repetitive till right near the end, and even then, I could stand it, especially with the culmination.
Archaeology, on the other hand, has me punching small animals right alongside ye, but I can't stop what is wrong with me
You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy.
Is it just me or do Faye's boobs seem huge today?
Is it just me or do Faye's boobs seem huge today?
It's just you.
That said... Veronica is coming to town very soon. She may well see the lump on his head, and start asking questions. Then things will get interesting...or explodey
Nobody expects a priest to flip off someone on the highway.
Friday:
marten eating a banana. pintsize shows up and slips on the peel. :psyduck:
Quotedid Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra?
I think they are just gaining mass over time, regardless. Remember when she was first introduced to the strip? She has gone from an A-cup to a D-cup in about 3 years! If this trend continues she is going to start developing back problems pretty soon...
QuoteYou forget: Women have a weak spot. If grabbed on the upper arm by a man, they are incapacitated.
I dunno man, having been a practicing martial artist for some 19 years, I know some female practitioners who treat that as their "berserk button". I've seen one practitioner straight up drive a "date" into the ground because he tried to "escort" her away. She damn near broke his wrist IIRC.
Say what you want about it being better not to talk when drunk; but truth comes out with alcohol.No it doesn't. In vino veritas is an old saying, but old doesn't mean true.
Say what you want about it being better not to talk when drunk; but truth comes out with alcohol.No it doesn't. In vino veritas is an old saying, but old doesn't mean true.
However, you're still YOU when you're drunkEven after a whole bottle of burbon?
However, you're still YOU when you're drunkEven after a whole bottle of burbon?
Owls??!
The Owls??
Why is it I suddenly have the theme from Twin Peaks running though my head.
"The Owls are not what they seem." :-D
Ninja'd you!
But what are these space owls that some people speak about :? Ok. I will google it one of these days.
Space Owl (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=150).
It's been linked twice already today.
Yay, Faye's scar...
The issue here is that some fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it. I don't know why they would, or even if that is a sincere desire, but that is the impression I get.
To these people: why? Why do you want him to have meant that?
/snipped
Twin Peaks
Yay, Faye's scar...
Please, please, save me having to re-read 1700 strips and remind me where that comes from? I was going to ask, but you seem to know.
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...
a passive doormat (AKA "Nice Guy").
I'd ask if I would be considered juvenile for connecting this phrase with Faye's, um, assets.....but I already know the answer to that. :-D
Then why bring it up, if that's not how you want to be considered?Probably because it's funny. :mrgreen:
I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.
@Overkillengine: So, the best way for Marten to start taking control of his life and asserting himself more is to insult, slut-shame, and belittle his best friend? Is that what you're saying?
(The idea that Faye is a malignant parasite is so laughable I won't even engage it, so if that's the crux of your thought...welp.)
Then why bring it up, if that's not how you want to be considered?Probably because it's funny. :mrgreen:
a passive doormat (AKA "Nice Guy").
This stereotype is being waved around far too much it seems to me; in any case, "Nice Guy" is used in so many rather contradictory ways that it fails even as a stereotype.
In the last panel Marten's reaching back to slip a note into his mother's hand with Sven's address and details about Dora's routine on it. He just didn't want possible witnesses hearing him tell Veronica that he wanted Dora dead; that would make him an accomplice!
Juicers? That's a new one to me. :-PMe too. Makes little sense, too.
I've been in this kind of place before. He needs to get rid of Faye. She will only cause him pain, and eventually, will go off with whomever she thinks she should be with at a time convenient for HER instead of him. He will then never hear from her again. His life is on hold until then. Dora was right after all. Faye is a parasite on Marten's good nature. It's very hard to turn your back on someone you want to love so badly, but he has to do it for his own good.Wow, everything is clear to me now. Y'know, I think you should so have this passage printed on little cards with your name and contact number on the other side, and hand them out to girls you're interested in. Encourage your friends to get sets printed too, to hand out to their prospective security-blankets...
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
Well, purely from memory: Faye's scar is a reoccuring theme of many strips.Yay, Faye's scar...
Please, please, save me having to re-read 1700 strips and remind me where that comes from? I was going to ask, but you seem to know.
[...] Hannermom would just hire an assassin.Honestly ? I doubt that. She's the kind of person that would do that one herself. And ENJOY it. Hannermom wouldnt want to get catched and wouldnt accept to go to jail, though.
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.
Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.
You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy.
Isn't one of the defining features of the Nice Guy (as opposed to the nice guy) that he wants romantic interest from a woman who is only interested in him platonically? If so, then I can't agree with your assessment, because it's made very clear that Faye was interested in Marten romantically. It didn't work out due to her issues, and they've both moved on from that romantic interest. Still, there's a big difference between thinking that a platonic friend owes you romantic interest, and hoping that a romantic friend will one day overcome her issues and pursue a functional relationship with you. Only the former is creepy; the latter is, at worse, hopelessly optimistic.
Citation time!
#64 - Steve is convinced that Faye is interested in Marten
#83 - Dora is convinced that Faye is interested in Marten
#118 - Faye creatively dodges the question of whether or not she's interested in Marten
#220 - Faye gets upset when Marten goes out with Dora on the double date with Steve and Ellen
#567 - Faye tells Marten that she's upset by the fact that it's him and Dora who wound up together, not him and herself
That'd be a fair enough argument, but it's previously been stated by characters in-strip that she's attractive. Yes, she's not bad for someone who's 50-60. She's supposed to look good enough for Dora to still find her attractive. Considering she's still a porn star, it's not ridiculous to expect her to still look good. So far, that's assuming we haven't seen her before. But we have, and in the strips we did see, she was looking significantly better.Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.
Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.
Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.
People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.
Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.
Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.
People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
And for the record, she looks fine to me.
Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.
People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
And for the record, she looks fine to me.
To me the definition of a "nice guy" is a guy who is only interested in longtime, true relationships, and not interested in one night stands and such.
Another term I heard for this kind of basic behavior is "real man". :-D In contrast to the playBOY. :wink:
She looks mostly fine to me, the only thing I find bugging me is that her cheeks seem a little too puffed out. Basically her face looks a little fat. If they weren't quite so puffy, I'd be happier. But that's just an aesthetic nitpick.
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
Hey, if you want something done right...
As a result, you get all kinds of stupid ideas. Including really stupid interpretations of your current situation. I dont consider those ideas "truth". Unless you are very negative about life in general, of course.
Marten's expression in the last panel is pure gold.
First Faye, then his mom...
...I think Dora still owes Marten free baked goods. He did save her life twice. :-P
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
Hey, if you want something done right...
You hire a professional.
Amateurs might get it right, but more often than not screw something up.
Think back to your last home improvement job....or tax return.
Generally I do as well, but let's face it there are some things that a lot people make mistakes in and assassination is one of them.Yes. Assassination is one of those things that should be labeled "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME UNLESS YOU ARE A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL" on TV.
Here's a self-professed Nice Guy's convenient website for hilarious misogyny: http://www.the-niceguy.com/:psyduck: Is that site serious? I get that it's all a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke.
Still Marten's mom was thinking of an amateur job, do it, and give herself in, so no one would suspect on Marten.... If she was a pro, she would do it so no one ever discovered the real victimary.
"The perfect crime is not the one that goes unsolved, but the one that is solved with the wrong culprit." <- that's from a book, but i don't recall the title of it...Here's a self-professed Nice Guy's convenient website for hilarious misogyny: http://www.the-niceguy.com/:psyduck: Is that site serious? I get that it's all a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke.
Holy shit, what the hell happened to Veronica Vance?Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.
People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
And for the record, she looks fine to me.
I think Veronica has let herself go abit.
There is one thing I do notice, though - those eyes. In fact... (scrolling back through ye olde archives) compare that last panel to the first panel in this strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1762).Whoa, those eyes really look alike!!
That dude was 100% serious at the time he created the website, you missed out on all the original internet drama when it was first posted.Oh, i'm glad i missed out all that. I just tried to read some of the post... And now i only feel like punching someone in the crotch.
<snip>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
I think the next poll should be "Who will threaten Dora with violence/death next ?" :evil:
I think the next poll should be "Who will threaten Dora with violence/death next ?" :evil:
Nice try for a newbie. I think we might go with that for next week's WCDT.
<snip>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...
Yes. Assassination is one of those things that should be labeled "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME UNLESS YOU ARE A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL" on TV.
(Hangs head in shame)
Yes.
<snip>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...
...there are people that don't know that one?
That'd be a fair enough argument, but it's previously been stated by characters in-strip that she's attractive. Yes, she's not bad for someone who's 50-60. She's supposed to look good enough for Dora to still find her attractive. Considering she's still a porn star, it's not ridiculous to expect her to still look good. So far, that's assuming we haven't seen her before. But we have, and in the strips we did see, she was looking significantly better.Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.
Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.
Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.
People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
Not everyone has watched, well, any of the hundreds of spy movies ever made, you know.
Wasn't that phrase part of the trailers for the Bruce Willis, Morgan Freeman etc. movie that came out a few months ago? Where Bruce says Helen Mirren is the best wet worker in the business? I would think most people with a television in their home would know the phrase after how heavily thats**t showmovie was marketed.
Jeph's art is definitely improving by leaps and bounds these days. Also, Ms. Vance is awesome for offering to kill Dora, even though I like Dora I like her less for dumping Marten.
RED (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1245526/) was it, right? Yeah i think i heard in the trailers but when i watched here, but i saw the translated version (sic), and when they mention it, they said "trabajo húmedo", something that sounds more like "moist job". I think i almost died while chocking on my laughter (<-- does that makes sense???)
(Hangs head in shame)
Yes.
(Also hangs his head in shame)
But ... but ... I'm not a native english speaker, after all !
some fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it.
Why would he not have meant it? It is exactly what he is thinking, only the booze makes him not censor it!
I learned the term "wet work" from books, so it's not just something you pick up in spy movies.\
I love that Marten's mom is willing to do time for the sake of her son's happiness, even though I'm pretty sure she knew the answer would be no before she offered to kill someone for him.
I'd like to see a murder or serious injury in this comic, myself (kind of lacking in my webcomic gore, as Dr McNinja has been really slow lately).
<snipsy doodle>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)".
Quotesome fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it.
Why would he not have meant it?
He likes this chick, open his home to her, helps her out in a lot of ways, and what does he get for his efforts?
Friendship that will fade out when she moves in and starts a family with someone else.
That's what I call paving the way.
She takes advantage of the situation and his feelings towards her. I am not saying she is a cold hearted and calculating bitch, but she is
nevertheless making the best of his attraction towards her. And telling someone "Oh I will always ONLY be your friend, so if you can't
accept this, please let me know. But if you CAN accept it, then fine we'll stay friends" does NOT excuse a chick from taking advantage.
Faye should do the right thing and either move out, or else decide Marten is who she wants, and dump her current BF. It's not nice to him,
but at least she could be true to herself and Marten. She seemed to have at least some bit of romantic feelings at an earlier time.
(BTW, I find it best to proceed as if these people were real, and not characters...)
In the last panel Marten's reaching back to slip a note into his mother's hand with Sven's address and details about Dora's routine on it. He just didn't want possible witnesses hearing him tell Veronica that he wanted Dora dead; that would make him an accomplice!
Is this a new rule of the forums - whenever we can't see one of Marten's hands, it's up to no good (groping Faye/plotting murder)?
Anyone else thinking we're going to be seeing at least three "Oh Shit!" moments next week?
One from Dora, one from Faye and one from Hanners when she looks up Veronica on wikipedia?
Aw man, there's finally a comic with Marten's mom and my monitor is all fucked up and I can't see what she looks like properly. Sucks.I'd like to see a murder or serious injury in this comic, myself (kind of lacking in my webcomic gore, as Dr McNinja has been really slow lately).
Check back as of, like, right now - I checked it half an hour and it was still Thursday's page, and there's a new one now with something that will hopefully give you your violence fix.
And it was still pretty awesome without fights:
Dr. McNinja: "We're going to hijack the Space Shuttle and shoot a missile at the dinosaur scout that discovers Earth!"
(beat)
King Radical: "...radical."<snipsy doodle>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)".
Yeah she is.
It's a bit unfair to compare her to pictures of models that you pulled off the net. I didn't look at them because I'm at work, but chances are they have had a professional make-up job done, professional hair, and have been airbrushed to the point where their own children won't recognize them.
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...
Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s. I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...
Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s. I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.
earlier strip with a yearbook dated 1998, and he referenced prom- So he was either a junior(16) or senior(17/18) then. assuming he went right into college, grad'd in 4 years, he should be around 23. I would rate his mom to be more in late-40's
yup, Im bored
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...
Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s. I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.
earlier strip with a yearbook dated 1998, and he referenced prom- So he was either a junior(16) or senior(17/18) then. assuming he went right into college, grad'd in 4 years, he should be around 23. I would rate his mom to be more in late-40's
yup, Im bored
Can't be. The girlfriend graduated in 2002 and is now 26. He'd have to be later into his 20s.
Edit: Wait, or is the comic in a different point in time...?
it was admitted in teh comic that Dora was older then him. somebody dig up the strip!
I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.
it was admitted in teh comic that Dora was older then him. somebody dig up the strip!
Ohohoh, sorry, I forgot about that. :psyduck:
Carl - I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls?
I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.
Terrible how?
OK, that's just pathetic. Veronica shows up, looking...puffier than I recall, & all sadface, & offers to kill Dora to make Marten happy. Somehow I expected cooler.
Don't get mad, Jeph, I'm just weirded out. Apparently she's aged a lot since the pre-Talk days.
Carl - I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls?
Dude - think your way, and live your life your way, and I'll live my life mine! I have been around the block more than a few times.
I should have done the things I recommend to Marten, because I lost out the same way he has more than once.
Later on, I won the one time it really counted. I'm married to her now.
The other ones were not worth waiting around for, but we don't have a crystal ball. At the time I didn't know
that they would ultimately move on. So, I will always advise anyone in that situation to cut their losses,
stop wasting their time and youth, and move on to someone new.
If a girl OR a guy will only be friends with you when they KNOW what you want, then they shouldn't torture you.
It's just mean. Marten is going to have a small bit of hope in the back of his head that Faye will one day come around,
and while there is a small chance she might, she probably never will. That bit of hope most people cling to with tenacity,
and wind up paying for it. It's very probably not worth it. Move out Marten. Let Faye shack up with Angus. Don't go into
coffee of doom ever again. The next chick you come across, you will accept less shit from, and it will serve you well.
Know when to draw the line and tell a woman that enough is enough; shit or get off the pot. Girls OR guys with issues can
just suck all the life and energy out of you, and not in a good way.
If I'm drinking in a bar with Marten, this is exactly what I will tell him, drunk OR sober.
If you guys think this shouldn't be posted here and it's trolling then fine, let me know and I won't bother you again.
Because anything that doesn't make sense timeline-wise is now blamed on Superboy Prime punching Time to escape from the Speed Force prison he was being held in by all the Flashes that had been trapped there when they ran too fast (he had originally been trapped there by Wally and two other Flashes that helped Wally pull him in once the way had started opening as Wally approached faster-than-light speeds with Superboy Prime in front of him).
Because anything that doesn't make sense timeline-wise is now blamed on Superboy Prime punching Time to escape from the Speed Force prison he was being held in by all the Flashes that had been trapped there when they ran too fast (he had originally been trapped there by Wally and two other Flashes that helped Wally pull him in once the way had started opening as Wally approached faster-than-light speeds with Superboy Prime in front of him).
Oh, terrible in the continuity sense. Sure. I thought you were saying the art/design of the page was terrible.
If you guys think this shouldn't be posted here and it's trolling then fine, let me know and I won't bother you again.
So what causes you to laugh so much?
Why make a provocative statement and leave it at that without explaining?
What's your take on the situation?
I don't see this as trolling, but I do see it as a misguided point of view. Your life has worked out for you along these lines, so fine; but you are expressing ideas which most people here disagree with. Also fine, but this is not a relationship forum - it is about a comic and the people in it. You have misinterpreted Marten in spite of recent guidance from Jeph, the author. Jeph will write Marten as he pleases, and not as you (or anyone else) thinks he should. Repeatedly coming back to express this same view here again will be seen as provocative and could spur me into more direct action.
Everyone else - just leave it be, please.
Ya gotta love Marten's mom. The things she'd do for her son. :-D
I'm looking forward to the bunfight that'll occur when she goes to see Dora
And I think she will.
OK, that's just pathetic. Veronica shows up, looking...puffier than I recall, & all sadface, & offers to kill Dora to make Marten happy. Somehow I expected cooler.
Don't get mad, Jeph, I'm just weirded out. Apparently she's aged a lot since the pre-Talk days.
I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. [...] Marten was probably thinking things like:
Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself? Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.
And again this idea appears that releasing inhibitions exposes your true self. NO! Your true self includes those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them is removing part of yourself.
What would be great is if they were all in one strip, panel-by-panel...with the last panel just being Veronica saying, "Hello, ladies."
And then there's a four-way [...] with the broad[...] and Faye[...] and Hanners[...] and...
...wait, what were we talking about?
I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. [...] Marten was probably thinking things like:
Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself? Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.
And again this idea appears (briefly) that releasing inhibitions exposes your true feelings. But your true self includes those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them means that your thoughts become unrepresentative of you.
I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. [...] Marten was probably thinking things like:
Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself? Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.
And again this idea appears (briefly) that releasing inhibitions exposes your true feelings. But your true self includes those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them means that your thoughts become unrepresentative of you.
I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.
All right, kids, back on topic:
Let's see, last we checked, there are only two people in NoHo that know Veronica's back in town: Marten and Tai.
We have no reason to believe that Faye knows that mom's back in town (or she wouldn't have gone DefCon Level 3 upside his head); ergo, we'd have to assume Dora has no clue that Mom's back.
There are a couple of other significant players in the cast who have never met Veronica, whose reaction might be verrrryyy interesting (other than, of course, Hannelore):
- Sven - he might have seen those photos his dad had (!)
- Angus - no idea what his reaction might be, which could be fun!
- Penelope - Wouldn't it be hilarious if she not only knew who she was, but she knew her on a first-name basis? (nahhhhh....)
- Steve - he probably knows who mom is from what Marty's told him, but AFAWK, he hasn't actually met her.
- Cosette - She might be completely freaked out by her - which could be hilarious if Hannelore isn't freaked out after finding out who VV is.
Put another way, we have different inhibitions depending on a situations context, right?
Creative editing for prurient interests 101.
Still Marten's mom was thinking of an amateur job, do it, and give herself in, so no one would suspect on Marten.... If she was a pro, she would do it so no one ever discovered the real victimary. "The perfect crime is not the one that goes unsolved, but the one that is solved with the wrong culprit."The perfect crime, surely, is one that is not even recognised as a crime...
I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...Wet job/work? I thought it was pretty widely known from espionage/thriller fiction, but I threw in the Wiki link just in case. I'm really not a deep-cover agent of Guoanbu... :angel:
Since we are apparently back on this topic; I'm really not totally sure where I know that from....I was never really into proper spy thrillers; just James Bond and the like, first for the gadgets and later for the girls of course...it's just that it always sorta seemed to make sense, y'know, since I was like eight or something. Dunno what's up with that.Not everyone has watched, well, any of the hundreds of spy movies ever made, you know.
Astounding fact of the day:- not all spy movies contain that phrase!
And to the person who tried to estimate Marten's age by using 1998 as his prom year, not bad assuming Marten was fresh out of college when the comic started, but I didn't get the impression that he was. Marten always talked about his old job like he'd been at it for quite awhile; I'd say at least a year. Then again it could have just seemed longer to him since he hated it so much. hmm....
You must feel like a broken record, having to repeat this that often.He raised kids, he's used to it.
Also, you don't have to be insanely hot or nubile to be a dominatrix. The clients are more interested in how good a dominant she is.
To who called Ms. Reed a porn star; she wasn't a porn star, she was (is?) a fetish model/professional dominatrix. Professional doms don't (usually) actually have sex with their clients. She says here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=435) that she was never fully nude in her photos.
PLUS not all clients need a fresh-faced 20-something as their dom. She's a dominatrix! An authoritarian authority figure! It may well work to her advantage. Plus she's not bad looking, just, you know, aged. (Even if the cheek-lines do make her face look oddly puffy.)
I'm really not a deep-cover agent of Guoanbu... :angel:
Oh, and I can't help but think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqo82G5zkVo).
Dora would melt.
Remember when she was cowering in her apartment waiting for Faye after she made a move on Marten?
As soon as she finds out Martymom's in town, she'll lose not only muscle control, but the ability to speak or form coherent thoughts.
You may not want to be standing near her when that happens.
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:
Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:
"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:
Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:
"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:
Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:
"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."
People have shipped Sven and Dora and have been totally serious about it.
Jwhouk compared Ms. Reed's eyes in the last panel of 1820 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1820) with Hanner's eyes in the first panel of 1762 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1762).Plenty of times cousins don't look much alike. Or it could be a related-by-marriage (NO not their own, get your minds out of the gutter) situation, or a half-relation situation like jwhouk suggested.
Personally, I don't see it - Hanner's eyes are green and rounder, Vivian's eyes are Marten's peiercing light blue, and though they're not shaped the same way as Marten's in this strip, Marten's eyes had a very hard night. Compare first panel Marten in 1785 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1785) with Ms. Reed's eyes inthe 3rd panel of 1820.
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:
Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:
"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."
So let me get this straight: Hannah knows Mrs Reed is her aunt, and knows her well enough to recognise her, but had somehow never met her cousin Marten before it turned out they lived in the same building? And Mrs Reed had never thought to tell him about his cousin?
Well, I guess we had the speculation about whether she was Dora's mother back in 436 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436)...
So let me get this straight: Hannah knows Mrs Reed is her aunt, and knows her well enough to recognise her, but had somehow never met her cousin Marten before it turned out they lived in the same building? And Mrs Reed had never thought to tell him about his cousin?
Well, I guess we had the speculation about whether she was Dora's mother back in 436 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436)...
Actually if Hanners calls her "Aunt Ronnie" or "Aunt Vance" she may not connect her with "Mrs. Reed."
Fun bit of speculation but sadly the Rules have been invoked, it'll never happen.
why aunt vance?
did hanners dad/mom hire her?
.....oh jesus. "Its ok honey, shes helping me clean up the bodyparts hard to get!"
Sadly by posting it... it will never come to be. Rule 29.3 section 12, paragraph 91, line seven of Weekly Comic Discussion: "If you post it, Jeph won't do it."
"nothing you post, however awesome it would be, will cause Jeph to change what he has planned."