Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2010, 07:20

Title: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2010, 07:20
Yet another week to ponder. Standard disclaimer: Please don't get this thread locked, 'kay?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: O8h7w on 12 Dec 2010, 07:30
Gotta love the new disclaimer  :laugh:

I'm hoping that we will not have anymore yelling bird... that guy creeps me out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: vettechinohio on 12 Dec 2010, 08:09
That poll needs to be multiple choice. I hope for not only the appearance of Veronica, but for Dora's first session as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 12 Dec 2010, 08:53
I agree.

Although if Dora calls the therapist one day, it seems unlikely to me that they would set up a session for the next day, whereas Marten (that same day on the phone with his mom) said "see you tomorrow", and a day in QCtime is often a week or more, so I don't anticipate those two things being in the same week of real time.  I think Jeph will want to spread each of those events out over a week to better explore both of them in detail.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 12 Dec 2010, 09:36
Nah - Miss Ellicot Chatham will continue a fine tradition by throwing up on our beleaguered hero.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 12 Dec 2010, 09:43
...if Dora calls the therapist one day, it seems unlikely to me that they would set up a session for the next day, whereas Marten (that same day on the phone with his mom) said "see you tomorrow", and a day in QCtime is often a week or more, so I don't anticipate those two things being in the same week of real time.  I think Jeph will want to spread each of those events out over a week to better explore both of them in detail.

If Marten's mom stays for a few days, that's about three weeks worth of material right there. 

The first therapy visit?  Well, as argued last week, it may or may not be seen.  but if it is, another good week and a half to two weeks worth of material. 

Gotta love comic time.  Reminds me of the soap my wife used to watch when we first got married.  We'd go away for a week, come back, and they were still in the middle of the same argument, or getting ready for the same party, as when we'd left!  It wasn't consistent, though.  My favorite part was when a new kid would be born into the family, and after a few months of the show's time, the kid was going to school... or worse, graduating.  Young actors would age right out of their roles before your eyes! 

Oh, and Hanners doesn't vomit (barf, puke, ralph, etc), it's too icky.  Can't avoid it with a stomach flu, but if she's in enough control, she just won't drink to that extent.  She's not even trying to keep up with Marten, she's just keeping him company. 

And of course, she'll be there for him, and help clean up when he  loses his non-free lunch. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 12 Dec 2010, 12:24
Whow people are optimistic about Martens mom this week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2010, 15:24
That poll needs to be multiple choice. I hope for not only the appearance of Veronica, but for Dora's first session as well.

Can't switch it after the fact. Can only change the question and the replies.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Arancaytar on 12 Dec 2010, 18:06
Hanners is looking after Marigold now?

Considering Hanners is traditionally the Woobie of the QC cast, that seems new. (Though she did go off on Marigold for not cleaning her room that time.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 12 Dec 2010, 18:33
Not the first time Hannelore has looked after Mar-bear. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1635)

Re: Comic: Yay! Return of the bourbon weasel!!!! Though his presence means Marten's in a pretty bad state of mind right now...Then again, the comic's title alone could tell you that much.  :-(
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2010, 19:24
Geez, how could I NOT have seen "Beast of Bourbon" as an option?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: St.Clair on 12 Dec 2010, 19:37
"Can't eat, almost 85."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 12 Dec 2010, 19:41
Geez, how could I NOT have seen "Beast of Bourbon" as an option?  :psyduck:

An honest oversight considering we haven't seen it in over 1000 strips. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=721) I'm half-surprised Jeph even thought of it.*

If Marten drinks too much more Faye might walk in to him swinging a broom around the apartment trying to fight that 9-foot pterodactyl.



*I guess I feel like being an archive-diver today
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 12 Dec 2010, 19:46
Wait.... Drunken, invisible animal that can only be seen by Marten. Harvey? Check.

Nice guy constantly being battered by life and does nothing about it a la James Stewart? Check.

Does this mean we'll be seeing a QC version of Its a Wonderful Life? Dear lord...... Veronica must be trying to earn her wings....

This could be simultaneously the funniest and most depressing QC storyline to date.

 :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: 0kamisama on 12 Dec 2010, 20:00
Wow, looks like we're in for a bunch of 'new art style' renditions of familiar faces.

Dora's therapist, Veronica, and now the old drunken hallucination monsters!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 12 Dec 2010, 20:03
If he has a few more, will the Tequila Monster show up?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 12 Dec 2010, 20:09
If the songs Jeph uses for the strip titles are meant to be a quasi-soundtrack, Marten's not in a very good place right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iszGfyLf5dQ
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: elddiremsiht on 12 Dec 2010, 21:13

If Marten drinks too much more Faye might walk in to him swinging a broom around the apartment trying to fight that 9-foot pterodactyl.


A... dickbroom, perhaps? :psyduck:

A little surprised that Hanners left. I wonder where this is going.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2010, 21:16
The Beast of Bourbon is endemic to just Marten, right? Cause I know Steve has the Tequila Monster, who came first, and was purple and green, and almost makes me want to say there's a palette swap going on, but there's deliberate variation thrown in there some places (also the Tequila Monster doesn't have a bowler hat). I don't THINK Steve's seen the yellow-blue guy.

@elddiremsiht: WELCOME TO THE PARTY MOTHERFUCKER

This is going? Nowhere good. Misery Town is likely the next stop on this cruise for just about everyone except Marigold, because she will be ensconced in her magical tropical gloryland on a seahorse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 12 Dec 2010, 21:42
I think you may be over analysing the physical characteristics of a fictional* alcohol induced hallucination.*











*or is it ?!?!?!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2010, 21:45
Nooooooo akronnick don't you see, the Monster and the Beast are the only real characters, the humans are the hallucination

(p.s. you are correct about what I am doing    :psyduck: bluh bluh

EDIT: psyduck is more appropriate than mr. green, mr. green is kind of a tool. OH GOD I HAVE TO STOP. SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING SERIOUS AND INSIGHTFUL.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sharp on 12 Dec 2010, 21:58
You know, it's rare that a QC comic influences my own life, but tonight is an exception: I lost my grandfather at around 7 o'clock EST Sunday. And while I came home, fully expecting to crack open my bottle of whiskey, the threat of a horrible hallucination has changed my mind and made me smile instead.   :-)

I guess what I'm saying is: Thanks Jeph. Your comic helps in ways other have no hope of ever doing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 12 Dec 2010, 22:12
If the songs Jeph uses for the strip titles are meant to be a quasi-soundtrack, Marten's not in a very good place right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iszGfyLf5dQ

Wow.  Thanks for that. 

Now I need to look up some of the others...  after finals. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 12 Dec 2010, 22:13
Nothing big here...  Let's see whether Marten follows this bad advice or not...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Olymander on 12 Dec 2010, 22:57
Dear lord...... Veronica must be trying to earn her wings....

 :psyduck:

I have a dirty mind.  The above-quoted line sent me in an entirely different direction. :psyduck:

You know, it's rare that a QC comic influences my own life, but tonight is an exception: I lost my grandfather at around 7 o'clock EST Sunday. And while I came home, fully expecting to crack open my bottle of whiskey, the threat of a horrible hallucination has changed my mind and made me smile instead.   :-)

I guess what I'm saying is: Thanks Jeph. Your comic helps in ways other have no hope of ever doing.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.  I had a bit of a scare with both of my own grandfathers this past month (one heart attack, one broken hip), and lost my last grandmother back around... April, I think it was?  We didn't always get along (my grandmother and I), but still, it does put a hole in your life.  For my case, it did spark some good, as it jump-started my romantic relationship with my girlfriend, so it wasn't all bad, but still.  I can only hope that in the days to come, you'll manage to find ways of coping, and that you can manage to continue on in your life.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sorflakne on 12 Dec 2010, 23:44
ZOMG TEH WEASELS ARE BACK!!!1!11!!!11!!1!11

That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 13 Dec 2010, 00:38
You know, it's rare that a QC comic influences my own life, but tonight is an exception: I lost my grandfather at around 7 o'clock EST Sunday. And while I came home, fully expecting to crack open my bottle of whiskey, the threat of a horrible hallucination has changed my mind and made me smile instead.   :-)

I guess what I'm saying is: Thanks Jeph. Your comic helps in ways other have no hope of ever doing.
that really sucks, i know what losing family is like i only have one grandparent left, my grandma who is 95 years old, all three of the others dies when i was between the ages of 10-15 and there's nothing you can really do about it. my grandma had a heart attack about 5 months ago and we all though she was gonna die but she pulled through. hope you find some closure and feel better  :|
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odal on 13 Dec 2010, 01:29
I don't get any hallucinations...  But there definitely is something that tells me that I should keep drinking even though others have left and I'm alone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 13 Dec 2010, 01:59
Yeh, now that beastie show, ev'rythin' goan be awri'. Yeh?

I have no idea why I wrote that, except the redo of Death Takes a Holiday (Meet Jerk Black, or something like that—not the best outing for teh Pitt) is on my mind.

Need to do something about that.
Sings:
I'll never be
Your Beast of Bourbon
My mouth's so dry
My head is hurtin'
Never, never never never never drinkin' JD again
Oh no!

(Doin' Chivas next time)

(Anyone else decided they might've actually had enough of Pintsize for a bit?)


Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Olymander on 13 Dec 2010, 02:07
(Anyone else decided they might've actually had enough of Pintsize for a bit?)


Not particularly for myself, but then again, Pintsize has a way of just showing up, so I don't usually expect him one way or the other.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Loki on 13 Dec 2010, 02:47
"Can't eat, almost 85."

For the record, she shouldn't need more than twelve hours and four minutes of power-leveling. That's how much the first lvl 85 on our realm needed. And hey, I was already wondering whether we would get a mention of Cataclysm from Marbear somehow.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Near Lurker on 13 Dec 2010, 03:02
Next, Marten comes into a lot of money.

(...wait, that was Gregory Peck.  Well, Stewart played him in the kind-of sequel.)

Next, Scott Brown dies and a special election puts Marten in his place.

(...okay, that one's wrong on so many levels...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 13 Dec 2010, 03:18
Well that's yesterday's vote out of the window.

I'm now hoping for a massive swerve where Victoria becomes Dora's therapist.

I also want to see Pintsize offer therapy to Marten dressed up as Freud.

I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ducktape on 13 Dec 2010, 04:08
I still think Marten may return to CoD this week, if for no other reason than to warn Dora of Veronica's IMMINENT AND IMPENDING ARRIVAL O NOES!!!1!!  :psyduck:
Hopefully that could lead to enough of a reconciliation that Marten, Faye and Dora can be seen in the same panel again. 

Though "this week" could be in-universe time ...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2010, 04:15
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.

He won't you know, so leave it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 13 Dec 2010, 05:00
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.

Blue's not really your color. 

And good for Marten, at least he recognizes bad advice when he hears it.  Of course, listening  is another matter entirely! 

Personally, I'm holding out for a booze-monster party.  Where's Gary (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=721) when you need him? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 13 Dec 2010, 05:15
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.

He won't you know, so leave it.

Next time don't say anything.     We could have waited for him to DROP DEAD... then we could have sold all his stuff and bought swank new QC duds!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 13 Dec 2010, 05:18
I'm going to hold my breath until Jeph meets my perfectly reasonable and justifiable demands.

Blue's not really your color. 

And good for Marten, at least he recognizes bad advice when he hears it.  Of course, listening  is another matter entirely! 

Personally, I'm holding out for a booze-monster party.  Where's Gary (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=721) when you need him? 

Marten's not drinking vermouth - yet. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: zadojla on 13 Dec 2010, 07:03
Marten's not drinking vermouth - yet. 
You only drink vermouth when the rest of the liquor's gone.  Ever notice how dry vermouth tastes like pizza?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 13 Dec 2010, 07:10
Apparently work takes a very dim view if you pass out and then blame it on a web comic.

Apparently this is going on my permanent record.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 13 Dec 2010, 07:40
Apparently work takes a very dim view if you pass out and then blame it on a web comic.

Apparently this is going on my permanent record.


maaaaaaaaaan you're still ALIVE?!   Well my day is ruined.    :roll:


 :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 13 Dec 2010, 07:53
wait...

did marty break out the old hoodie? its black again...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: shengokai on 13 Dec 2010, 07:54
Quote
A little surprised that Hanners left. I wonder where this is going.

To Marigold's apartment where she is dealing with that indian guy whose been stalking her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Cammy on 13 Dec 2010, 07:56
I can see it now; Marten dies of alcohol poisoning, and everyone hates Dora because of it. Dora then slices her wrists in the bathtub, and Faye is the one who discovers the body. Having people close to her die again makes her snap completely, and she blows her brains out.

Epilogue; Hanners and Marigold live happily ever after and have tons of babies. Pintsize rules the world with an iron/plastic fist.

Calling it now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2010, 08:04
NO.

Please discuss possibilities that plausibly fit the characters in the comic, and the way the comic is written - not your fantasies.

did marty break out the old hoodie? its black again...

It was noted the day after the breakup.  But after all, he's got plenty (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=560)!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 13 Dec 2010, 09:07
Nah Marten's ain't dying of alcohol poisoning-since he's not a habitual hard drinker he'll most likely pass out long before his blood alcohol level reaches danger levels. (plus Jeph ain't knockin' off his main character, come on now! Especially since that would actually end that character's suffering.) As for the rest...um, I'm 110% with the mod here, NO. Just NO.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 13 Dec 2010, 09:33
Sings:
I'll never be
Your Beast of Bourbon
My mouth's so dry
My head is hurtin'
Never, never never never never drinkin' JD again
Oh no!


Awesome.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Cammy on 13 Dec 2010, 09:37
I feel rather silly for having to clarify this, but here it goes; I'm only pulling your leg.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2010, 09:41
Bad taste jokes are still bad taste; there's been enough of that sort of thing around here to last us forever.  We're trying to improve this place, so please play ball. 

Check out the welcome thread at the top for hints.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Cammy on 13 Dec 2010, 09:49
I do apologize for entering this place of worship and pissing in the holy water.

While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up), I think we will be seeing the first baby-steps of Dora attempting therapy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 13 Dec 2010, 10:05
I do apologize for entering this place of worship and pissing in the holy water.

While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up), I think we will be seeing the first baby-steps of Dora attempting therapy.

The only bit of pissing in holy water that was in your post was that you didn't clarify that Hanners and Marigold would not be raising babies as a lesbian couple. The wording is a bit dodgy and could be read that way, which is the only fantastic bit of your post. The rest of it could totally happen as a snowball perfect-storm of shit hitting the fan, given how the characters have been portrayed so far in the comic (all hinging on Marten dying of alcohol poisoning, of course).

I'd wager something much more mundane happens, though:

Marten passes out and otherwise spends the night alone, Faye goes out with Angus to get away from the shithole bummer night she'd have if she came home and had to talk to Marten again, Dora continues to be herself and doesn't make it to therapy until next week, Veronica also doesn't show up until next week (hell, it could be an entire month from now, real time).

Basically, the rest of the week is going to be horrible jokes between Angus and Faye (that have nothing to do with Marten and Dora, because how pathetic would they be as a couple spending an entire date talking about a breakup between one of Faye's friends?)--or maybe decent jokes, the actual humor between characters is hit or miss with the comic humor being in the situations themselves--with maybe a filler comic featuring Yelling Bird and Sweet Tits (did she ever get a real name, or did Yelling Bird calling her that pretty much constitute her naming?) talking about how pathetic the forums posters are because it'll allow Jeph to vent a bit while also exercising his drawing talents.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2010, 10:07
I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.
EDIT: the characters are all survivors. The only arguable exception is Faye, and even then you have to notice that the car wreck was never repeated and that she backed away on the alcohol-based slow suicide.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 13 Dec 2010, 10:21
While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up)


I would love to see Jeph handle that. He's never been much of a political animal, though, more's the pity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: galarant on 13 Dec 2010, 10:38
No Hanners, come back!

He needs comfort...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 13 Dec 2010, 10:48
Bad taste jokes are still bad taste; there's been enough of that sort of thing around here to last us forever.  We're trying to improve this place, so please play ball. 

Check out the welcome thread at the top for hints.

Hear, Hear

I for one would like to take this opportunity to welcome our new English overlord/colonial master and extend an invitation to the levee on New Years' Day.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2010, 10:50
No Hanners, come back!

He needs comfort...

That can, of course, be taken quite innocently.  However, in the light of your previous posts, I suspect that wasn't what you meant. Tsk, tsk.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 13 Dec 2010, 11:02
I am starting to seriously like the cut of your jib, sir.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 13 Dec 2010, 11:20
I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.
I don't. Remember Faye's threat????


Also, i have a hunch that Faye is going to come home and kick Marten's ass. Maybe it's crazyness talking, but just a hunch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 13 Dec 2010, 11:25
care to expand on that? I don't think that Faye is evil enough to get up in Marten's shit right now, dude is fucked up enough at the moment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Cammy on 13 Dec 2010, 11:29
Faye kick Marten's ass? That's some truly 'Southern Comfort' right there!  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 13 Dec 2010, 11:38
Faye kick Marten's ass? That's some truly 'Southern Comfort' right there!  :lol:

Pre-new moderator I'd expect that to open the door to lots of freudian analysis/commentary about Marten's tendency to be attracted to women that treat him like shit >50% of the time and how he'd probably really enjoy it, referencing Oedipal complex stuff and his mother's occupation (and someone posting overly wordy fiction about Veronica showing up mid-beating and giving Faye pointers, etc.).

EDIT: Fixed for clarity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 13 Dec 2010, 11:41
I don't think there's anything in the comic to support Marten as a masochist.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2010, 11:44
I don't see that ("Marten's tendency to go after women that treat him like shit") as a realistic judgement based on what we actually know, though.  He and Vicky were fine for a while, but then grew apart and ended unsatisfactorily, which is not an uncommon stage in life; Faye he hankered after, but she didn't treat him like shit (play-punching and being unavailable aren't enough to qualify); and Dora, well, she  chased him,  and didn't treat him like shit until sometime after they were together.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 13 Dec 2010, 11:50
I don't know, just a hunch i have. Not really probable, but if Marten keeps on drinking, until he gets really, and i mean REALLY wasted. Then Faye comes into the apartment and sees Marten in a bad state... and well, there you got a fight (or not? Maybe Faye change personalites drastically and instead of reprehend him, she takes care of him, until he sober up?)

I don't know, it really seems unlikely, but since Marten and Dora broke up i have my sense of doom it's on all the friggin' time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 13 Dec 2010, 12:04
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 13 Dec 2010, 12:14
I don't see that ("Marten's tendency to go after women that treat him like shit") as a realistic judgement based on what we actually know, though.  He and Vicky were fine for a while, but then grew apart and ended unsatisfactorily, which is not an uncommon stage in life; Faye he hankered after, but she didn't treat him like shit (play-punching and being unavailable aren't enough to qualify); and Dora, well, she  chased him,  and didn't treat him like shit until sometime after they were together.

Marten was the creepy one in the relationship with Vicky, though (already argued this out in another thread several months ago), so I don't think we want to go through that one again (short version: She broke up with him, he moved to follow her anyway and she wasn't assertive enough to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls). Faye did treat Marten like shit pretty much continuously until the comic evolved into them genuinely being friends instead of Marten being the Nice Guy that let the Girl He Is Attracted To move in (with her being very well aware of it) and Dora chased after Marten because she saw a readily available doormat that she could walk all over (and she broke up with him when he finally redeveloped a spine).

Whether Marten is still a Nice Guy or not remains to be seen, but at the very beginning of this comic he pretty much was. Jeph may have redefined him recently, but we haven't actually seen it outside of his interactions with Hannelore and other people he has no romantic interest in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 13 Dec 2010, 13:03
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.

Faye? Mama Bear instinct? I can see that, but i can't see Faye as a person that acts non-violently, like taking care of Marten and cleaning the mess....
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tomart on 13 Dec 2010, 13:19
While I don't think we'll be seeing Veronica this week (damn TSA holding her up)
I would love to see Jeph handle that. He's never been much of a political animal, though, more's the pity.
*
True, but there could be much humor in a screener scanning Veronica's tools of her trade...    :police:    
(hey, she might bring some on a rare visit; a chance to see an east coast client while she's 'in town'...)  
 :-o  "...Ahem, Ma'am, is this trip business or pleasure...?"  "Both!"  :-D

Thanks, raoulferre!  I was gonna put some words to that tune, but you're much better at it than me. (than I?)

And multiple-choice poll for sure this time - I'll bet many  of us would have chosen V's visit and  Dora's therapy.

And while i approve of reigning in silly, bizarre, out-of-character speculation  (it's usually not even funny)  I wonder about the random poll entries too...  Mieville and Winslow running away? Why?  And a month of YB&R wouldn't be in character for Jeph.  

*  he did speak out against a ballot initiative that would have trampled gay/lesbian rights;  I think it's probably wise to be selective in his position, else be seen as too ... something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 13 Dec 2010, 14:08
Marten was the creepy one in the relationship with Vicky, though (already argued this out in another thread several months ago), so I don't think we want to go through that one again (short version: She broke up with him, he moved to follow her anyway and she wasn't assertive enough to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls).

Yes.  I get the feeling that, despite the few prior GF's, Marten's level of inexperience made him clingy, and prompted some really  bad judgements. 

Quote
Faye did treat Marten like shit pretty much continuously until the comic evolved into them genuinely being friends instead of Marten being the Nice Guy that let the Girl He Is Attracted To move in (with her being very well aware of it)

Again, I have to agree.  It was an easy hook for Jeph to use early in the comic, provided humor and character development possibilities, but like most Nice GuyTM storylines, it was juvenile and could have gone creepy. 

Quote
and Dora chased after Marten because she saw a readily available doormat that she could walk all over (and she broke up with him when he finally redeveloped a spine).

OK, now here is where I differ with you.  Dora found Marten attractive, you don't use the term "dashing young man" lightly.  She wasn't going to do anything about it at first, deferring to Faye's surmised prior claim.  When the coast was clear, she still agonized over the decision, leading to the current state of her neuroses.  She'd been going through some changes, leaving the goth world (and her former dating pool) behind, and found a man whose appearance turned her on (what else do any of us first react to, anyway?) and who was available.  I'm not saying that she felt Marten was a "new indy outlook" accessory, but after her prior experience she was probably thinking that she'd like to see how the other half lived.  She wasn't looking for spineless, and I don't think Marten is (we'll probably always  disagree over this point), but I think I can safely say that a doormat was the last  thing she was looking for.  And it wasn't his spine (suddenly developed or otherwise) that made her break up with him.  It was the fact that she was making them both  miserable, and finally saw it.  She had an epiphany of sorts, and it cost her something dear. 

Sorry, but Dora was just not acting out of malice, as you'd have it. 

And yes, Marten is a nice guy.  That doesn't make him a Nice GuyTM.  He's grown, and seems to have a handle on the creepy thing.  He's still pretty clueless, but when you're in a relationship where the other person laughs off their worries, you'd be pretty clueless too, unless you were unnecessarily paranoid. 

And, now that I've gotten dangerously close to analysing you, I'll quit. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: DonInKansas on 13 Dec 2010, 14:08
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.

It's about time; Marten's cleaned up enough Faye puke that he's got plenty of puke payback in the bank.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 13 Dec 2010, 14:31
What precisely is with all the people who are talking about Faye getting mad at Marten for drinking?

Faye's not stupid. If she goes after Marten for drinking, that's a dumptruck full of hypocrisy on her part, considering that she broke out the emergency bourbon for herself just before they broke up. And it's been made pretty clear that hypocrisy is one of the few things that Marten will actually get pissed off about.

More likely is her joining him to keep him from continuing to drink alone. Funnier than that would be her inviting some other friends over, for a party Marten is way too drunk to stop.

And I am very much looking forward to Faye's reaction to learning Veronica is flying in, although I'm not entirely sure whether it'll be horror or laughter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tomart on 13 Dec 2010, 14:35
Likely relief, knowing Bosch-lady isn't coming after HER.


Marten's easy-going attitudes and comfort with strong women means over time he'll get the gamut of their treatment, from heaping helpings of love and support to occasional harsh treatment.  It's a part of his persona, and overall, I'd say he's comfortable with the mix.  (Well, maybe not right NOW, after Dora abandoned him...)  

But I see his mother sweeping in to comfort and help her pup, a good example of strong-woman benificence.


     "...puke-payback..."     :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 13 Dec 2010, 14:55
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.

Faye? Mama Bear instinct? I can see that, but i can't see Faye as a person that acts non-violently, like taking care of Marten and cleaning the mess....

What, you think she'll walk away, go to bed and leave him to wake up face down in his own puke?

...actually, I can see Faye doing that. It'd be funnier too, along with the aftermath. Would delight the Faye-haters though, as well as maybe add to their ranks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 13 Dec 2010, 14:59
What, you think she'll walk away, go to bed and leave him to wake up face down in his own puke?

...actually, I can see Faye doing that. It'd be funnier too, along with the aftermath. Would delight the Faye-haters though, as well as maybe add to their ranks.

Seriously, if Faye walks past Marten in that condition, and doesn't at least call Hanners or Steve, then a lot of people's opinions on Faye are going to do a 180, because that would be revealing some very messed up stuff about her. I don't consider it a reasonable possibility, and after all Marten has done for Faye, I don't think it's in character for her at all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 13 Dec 2010, 15:29
...actually, I can see Faye doing that. It'd be funnier too, along with the aftermath. Would delight the Faye-haters though, as well as maybe add to their ranks.

Old Faye might've done that; Present-Day-Faye absolutely would not, I don't think.


I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.

Or actually accidentally missing it, and then Faye suspecting that she chickened out and bringing the wrath.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: daryljfontaine on 13 Dec 2010, 15:58
Seriously, if Faye walks past Marten in that condition, and doesn't at least call Hanners or Steve, then a lot of people's opinions on Faye are going to do a 180, because that would be revealing some very messed up stuff about her. I don't consider it a reasonable possibility, and after all Marten has done for Faye, I don't think it's in character for her at all.

If Faye has to tend to a besotted Marten and ends up with a lap full of puke, I will laugh heartily.  But then, I am a big fan of the turning of the (mezcal) worm, and all that.

D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2010, 17:58
Re: vomit discussions. Hannelore has engaged in emesis, strip 927. Marten has already thrown up on Faye, 1146.

Marten needs Faye's friendship now. This is hitting him worse than, for example, the layoff. There may be a nurturing and supportive side of her that we'll finally get to see.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: daryljfontaine on 13 Dec 2010, 18:06
strip 927

(1) I bow to your superior Archive-Fu.

(2) Muchos gracias for reminding me how hilarious the Beatrice strips are.

D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Dec 2010, 18:46
NO.

Please discuss possibilities that plausibly fit the characters in the comic, and the way the comic is written - not your fantasies.
<snip>

Most Unintentionally Funny Mod post of the year.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 13 Dec 2010, 18:48
i'm betting Faye joins him, and then through drunken bad decision making they end up sleeping with each other
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Dec 2010, 18:56
So what's on store for us this week?

MOAR PINTSIZE!!!!!!11!!!!    - 1 (0.9%)
A month's worth of Yelling Bird and Randy.    - 5 (4.3%)
Dora's first therapy sesssion.    - 19 (16.5%)
Angus and Faye dating    - 3 (2.6%)
Veronica shows up.    - 58 (50.4%)
Hanners drinks Marten under the table.    - 7 (6.1%)
Mieville and Winslow run away.    - 0 (0%)
Cosette burns down COD.    - 3 (2.6%)
Waffles.    - 7 (6.1%)
Beast of Bourbon FTW!    - 12 (10.4%)
   
Total Voters: 115
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2010, 19:24
(1) I bow to your superior Archive-Fu.
In this case jwhouk deserves the credit. I used his summary of the contents of every strip. The Hannermom series all took places  during one of the gaps in ohnorobot's coverage.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 13 Dec 2010, 19:28
More likely, if Marten keeps drinking, that Faye will come home to find him passed out on the couch face down in his own vomit. Can't fight with an unconscious person now can you? Thus her Mama Bear instinct will kick in and she'll feel compelled to take care of Marten-which he will hear about in the morning, especially if Faye has to clean up his puke.
Actually, I see the possibility of a wonderful piece of turnabout in this. Here's hoping…

I don't see that ("Marten's tendency to go after women that treat him like shit") as a realistic judgement based on what we actually know, though.  He and Vicky were fine for a while, but then grew apart and ended unsatisfactorily, which is not an uncommon stage in life; Faye he hankered after, but she didn't treat him like shit (play-punching and being unavailable aren't enough to qualify); and Dora, well, she  chased him,  and didn't treat him like shit until sometime after they were together.
As I've said before, Marten seems to prefer strong women women who appear to be strong. I have to agree with Odin on Vicky—that was a mistake on Marten's part. However, Dora would have been a Good Move had it not been for her hidden alternate self—Marten got sucked in by Business Dora and Social Dora, and only got to meet screwed-up Relationship Dora after he'd already committed (oh, yeah, still bridling at that) himself. As for Faye, I've a quibble—are we now calling knocking Marten on the floor a 'play punch'? Yes, that one still bothers me, too. I know it was over-done for comedic effect, but it still troubles me. Other than that, though, I agree, seeing that she A) came clean and B) didn't really resent that Marten moved on. Regretted, maybe, but never resented Marten for it. That's class.

What it boils down to, I think, is that Marten needs to find a woman who is what she seems to be. (Cynical me says 'Good Luck with that one!" After all, is anyone these days? Or ever?)

You know, looking at his experiences with a critical eye, I'd say Marten's real problem is he can only focus on one girl at a time—Sara comes to mind. Poor girl never had a chance, I suspect—Marten was already set on Faye. Really…

(Oh god. Oh, no, not that, anythin—OH GOD! Blargh! Arrhhgg! Bleeaah!)

<applies cold compress to forehead>

Sigh. Really, maybe Marten needs to hang around with Sven a little and learn how not to have quite so much tunnel vision. At the same time, perhaps Sven-boy could learn that at some point one must stop and consider the possibilities of the One, rather than How Many one can, er, bag.

That was rather painful on several levels. Okay. Let the scorning begin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Dec 2010, 19:29
Okay, I'm going to admit something: I'm lost as to a new poll topic.

Suggestions?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 13 Dec 2010, 19:40
Okay, I'm going to admit something: I'm lost as to a new poll topic.

Suggestions?

"Who'll get their lap vomited into next?"

Seems we've already gotten into the discussion for it, and Jeph clearly does not shy away from using it for comedic effect. Although if he realizes we've caught on, he'll probably never use it again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 13 Dec 2010, 19:48
"what will faye do when she finds marten passed out on the couch?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 13 Dec 2010, 21:21
Difficult poll. Naturally, I should vote for Faye's lap, as that was what I was alluding to earlier. But Pintsize deserves to be filled to the brim with hurl.

Trouble is, the little ass would probably like it. He'd dash around showing it to people and calling himself "Master Pukebucket" or somesuch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 13 Dec 2010, 22:24
honestly i just want bad things to happen to vespavenger, i don't care what, but being puked on would be an awesome start
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2010, 22:37
How about a poll about what Veronica Reed will do when she comes into town? Some options that come to mind readily are insightful advice, consoling Marten, reassuring Dora, knitting a Breakup Hat, and of course Bosch paintings.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Olymander on 13 Dec 2010, 22:48

You know, looking at his experiences with a critical eye, I'd say Marten's real problem is he can only focus on one girl at a time—Sara comes to mind. Poor girl never had a chance, I suspect—Marten was already set on Faye. Really…


?  From (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=9) all (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=28) appearances (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=30) Marten never realised she was interested, and she's the one that broke it off.  Now, granted, Marten never really pursued the possibility, but neither did Sara really "put herself out there", so to speak.  And by the time she got up the nerve to ask... it was to turn him down.  Marten, of course, beyond the passing fantasy from the first post I linked, was totally oblivious.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Dec 2010, 22:59
Is it cold in here: Might keep that one in reserve, depending on what happens tonight.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 13 Dec 2010, 23:06
I believe that Marten will puke onto Angus in final indication of his full acceptance into the group, a ritual recognizing him as equal and ally. Those whom Marten bestows his vomit upon are his closest companions, the members of his family, as it were.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: galarant on 13 Dec 2010, 23:21
No Hanners, come back!

He needs comfort...

That can, of course, be taken quite innocently.  However, in the light of your previous posts, I suspect that wasn't what you meant. Tsk, tsk.

Oh come now I don't think there's any tsking necessary. We all know what Marten wants (and what he needs) even if he would never admit it to himself. As for Hanners...she is absolutely crippled by neuroses and is seriously lacking in experience for her age. Maybe if Emergency Bourbon turned into Emergency Sex then it would end up better for everybody!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2010, 23:32
We all know what Marten wants (and what he needs) even if he would never admit it to himself.

So where's the evidence to suggest this?  Just wishing it to be so isn't enough.  Without evidence, this goes nowhere.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Dec 2010, 23:39
Now now, don't bait the young man.  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 13 Dec 2010, 23:45
There is positively no evidence that Hanners has a romance (or to use fancy Homestuck terms)/matespritship with Marten.

...They might have a moirallegiance kind of thing going on? But it's mostly on Hanners' side. More likely they're just friends.

(have I been reading too much Homestuck? maybe. but I find the trolls' romance-quadrants are quite useful.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 14 Dec 2010, 00:09
Faye's bra disappearing into the Bermuda Triangle that is Angus's apartment was not what I was expcting.



Still, it's good to know that somebody in QC-land is getting some action.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 14 Dec 2010, 00:11
Angus: Marigold, how many bras do you have on?

Marigold: Wh-what?

Faye: Hey I found it!

Angus: Oh ok nevermind. 'Night! *shuts door*

Marigold: ...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sharp on 14 Dec 2010, 00:12
Hah! Ah the old post-makeout clothes searchTM. Watch out now, you stop paying attention for one minute and then BAM: clothes start "disappearing" like mad! And Angus' shirt is even open a bit! Looks like Faye is more forceful than I had expected!  :-D

Now I could guess as to what Marigold is doing, but I'm sure she's just wishing they'd keep it down and  turn off that damn music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvGwY4tEJQM)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 14 Dec 2010, 00:19
Well hey fuck yeah Angus. Although dang, Faye, you still have room to chill the fuck out sometimes, I really don't think Angus, at this point, would be going for a trophy bra.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 14 Dec 2010, 00:19
I had a sofa that would swallow undergarments in these sorts of situations.      It also had some kind of strange quantum-wormhole effect on lose change.   Whenever I needed a couple of bucks in dimes and nickles I'd go check the sofa.    99% of the time there would be plenty of change, and usually some sort of garment from my previous "visitor."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 14 Dec 2010, 00:23
Oh alarm is warranted, sure, just honest threats of emasculation are a bit of an overreaction. Not that I'm going "FAYE IS HUGE BITCH BLUH BLUH", she's right to be piqued, but at this point, she should give Angus a liiiiittle more trust.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 14 Dec 2010, 00:29
Faye's not threatening Angus....

She's simply honestly communicating the consequences of him betraying her trust by stealing and doin unspeakable things with her undergarments...

It's important to communicate in a relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Dec 2010, 00:37
Looking at the bigger picture, she's doing a normal relationship thing.

Yay for mostly healthy Faye!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 14 Dec 2010, 00:49
Great angry-face from Faye, and fear-face from Angus. They are obviously meant for each other.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 14 Dec 2010, 00:52
I don't know about you all, but that was a beautifully drawn potted plant in the last two panels. Jeph's artwork has really come along.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 14 Dec 2010, 01:04
Light petting and a hot chick without her bra on and you notice the potted plant.

Just making sure.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 14 Dec 2010, 01:11
If the petting is so intense that they can't remember who took off the bra, I think that qualifies as heavy petting.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Dec 2010, 01:42
I'll buy that for a dollar. Besides, c'mon Faye, remember how mesmerized he was when they were still holstered? With that gone, there's no way Angus's brain is functioning at the level of trophy-taking. The best he could probably have managed was to sling it over his shoulder or put it over his head.

The real question is this: what did Pintsize offer Momo to get her to swipe the bra? Yeah, I think he's ready to be MacCavity. "Monster of Depravity" is getting more and more suitable a title for him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: foozlesprite on 14 Dec 2010, 01:46
I really shouldn't read this comic when low on sleep.  I got halfway through the comic thinking Faye was with Sven because I didn't look hard enough, and was confused as shit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 14 Dec 2010, 01:51
Light petting and a hot chick without her bra on and you notice the potted plant.

Just making sure.

Yeah well I just spend a whole day studying for a calculus final. My brain is a little overheated at the moment, and I think my priorities center closed early.

Still, it is a nice plant, and Jeph gave it plenty of panel to work with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Tergon on 14 Dec 2010, 03:16
He has a point.  That is one pretty sexy plant.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 14 Dec 2010, 03:21
I fail, I thought it was a bonsai privet hedge.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 14 Dec 2010, 03:46
Oh alarm is warranted, sure, just honest threats of emasculation are a bit of an overreaction. Not that I'm going "FAYE IS HUGE BITCH BLUH BLUH", she's right to be piqued, but at this point, she should give Angus a liiiiittle more trust.



Well she did try to choke the life out of Martin way back when he washed her pants....   So I say she's come a LONG way.   Classic Faye would have vaporized Angus with RAGE and been done with it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 03:55
I fail, I thought it was a bonsai privet hedge.

It's a miniature weeping pine, but after witnessing this evening's activities, it's now standing at attention (http://oglaf.com/stamen/1/) (NSFW)...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 14 Dec 2010, 04:15
We all know what Marten wants (and what he needs) even if he would never admit it to himself.

So where's the evidence to suggest this?  Just wishing it to be so isn't enough.  Without evidence, this goes nowhere.

Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore), so it's not like the idea in-comic would have been out of nowhere. In fact, I'd wager that the larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer and got too much more drunk alongside Marten and used the Marigold excuse to tacitly bail out early and avoid (at best) horrifyingly awkward and terrible sex or (at worst) the arrival of Zalgo in the QC-verse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: gathayah on 14 Dec 2010, 04:16
Bravo Jeph, this is the funniest comic I've seen in a while.  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 14 Dec 2010, 05:02
Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore), so it's not like the idea in-comic would have been out of nowhere. In fact, I'd wager that the larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer and got too much more drunk alongside Marten and used the Marigold excuse to tacitly bail out early and avoid (at best) horrifyingly awkward and terrible sex or (at worst) the arrival of Zalgo in the QC-verse.

Well, given Dora's reaction to Sven agreeing to the pretend date, I'd say Hanners is the likely cause of any future invasions by extraplanar entities. Not that Pintsize hasn't tried to summon tentacled beings.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 05:05
Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore),

Not with Hanners was my point.  Also sex in that situation solves nothing, and has plenty of potential for making everyone feel worse about things.

Quote
the larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer

I really don't see such a scenario entering Hannelore's mind yet, myself - if it had, there would've been signs of panic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 05:18
Hanners knows that, until the cloning's complete, she can't be everywhere  at once to help all  her friends. 

She's getting to be quite the little mother hen... responsibility becomes her, and lets her focus on something other than her own problems. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 14 Dec 2010, 05:38
Angus: Marigold, how many bras do you have on?

Marigold: Wh-what?

Faye: Hey I found it!

Angus: Oh ok nevermind. 'Night! *shuts door*

Marigold: ...

Only problem with that scenario is that Marigold would be playing the new expansion for WoW, so she probably isn't hearing anything beyond her guildmates while they play a heroic. And possibly forgetting to eat anything, hence Hanners' idea to actually make sure Marigold has something to eat.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: innermoppet on 14 Dec 2010, 05:46
I like to believe that Momo is running around the apartment with Faye's bra on her head.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 05:53
And possibly forgetting to eat anything, hence Hanners' idea to actually make sure Marigold has something to eat.

As evidenced by Marigold's twitter a few days ago:
Quote
If I don't tweet sometime in the next six months, assume I died playing Cataclysm and I guess tell my parents or something
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 14 Dec 2010, 06:01
O'course, the next comic is when Hanners turns up as Faye is leaving...

Does she:
a) Tell Faye what Marten is up to, eliciting angst and/or confusion on Faye's part, or
b) Trip over Faye's discarded brassiere in the doorway, causing hilarity to ensue?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: vettechinohio on 14 Dec 2010, 06:25
Or does she:
c) ogle/comment over Faye's bra-less state?
d) walk in to find Momo dancing around with it on her head? (pirated idea from previous comment, because it's awesome)

I hope Faye brought a coat, as I wouldn't want to walk a block or two home sans bra without something else snug to cover my pendulous parts (:

PS New poll material? Where is Faye's bra?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Dec 2010, 06:32
She could just walk down the street fondling herself...

When/what will be the target of Marten's puke?

Faye's lap, of course (What goes around comes around)    - 12 (31.6%)
All over Pintsize! (Jeph will get him another chassis upgrade)    - 1 (2.6%)
Mom - right after she finds him passed out on the couch.    - 5 (13.2%)
Sven, who came over to get the last of Dora's stuff.    - 1 (2.6%)
Steve (He knows the drill.)    - 0 (0%)
Yelling Bird! (He DESERVES it.)    - 2 (5.3%)
Hannelore (when she stops by the next morning)    - 2 (5.3%)
Angus (when he's dropping off Faye)    - 1 (2.6%)
Tai (who's concerned that he didn't come to work)    - 0 (0%)
No one (he'll just puke all over the couch)    - 5 (13.2%)
He's not gonna puke; too trite of a cliche.    - 7 (18.4%)
VespAvenger!    - 2 (5.3%)

Total Voters: 38
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 14 Dec 2010, 06:33
Sven suggested it to Marten in the comic (though not with Hannelore),

Not with Hanners was my point.  Also sex in that situation solves nothing, and has plenty of potential for making everyone feel worse about things.

Other than being an incredible stress reliever if the people involved aren't chock full of psychological issues (when talking about it solving nothing), you mean? Some people seem to think that after handling the fake date well that Hanners can handle a relationship now (which is really hilarious, even if dumb).

Quote
Quote
the larger in-comic reason why Hannelore left was because she knew about the potential for things to head that way if she stayed too much longer

I really don't see such a scenario entering Hannelore's mind yet, myself - if it had, there would've been signs of panic.

I think it would be more of a borderline-subconscious bit of mental planning, plus imbibing alcohol to "take the edge off" probably played a part as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Dec 2010, 06:35
PS New poll material? Where is Faye's bra?!
Not a poll—a Hidden Object game! Somewhat akin to Where's Waldo, but no eyes in the white circles*, and nothing else except lines for the straps…

On sober thought, Where's Titsling probably wouldn't catch on.

*Somehow, I doubt Faye goes in for colors.

Edit:
She could just walk down the street fondling herself...
Now there is a mental image I do not need.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Dec 2010, 06:42
<snip>
Edit:
She could just walk down the street fondling herself...
Now there is a mental image I do not need.

Then don't look back here. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=89)
Title: bra
Post by: Doc on 14 Dec 2010, 07:12
I bet the bra has been eaten by the green fluffy alien in the corner.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 14 Dec 2010, 07:55
Tai has it.

Edited to remove unneeded material.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 14 Dec 2010, 08:23
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/WdOdin/Smilies/emot-laugh.gif)



Okay, now (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/WdOdin/Smilies/emot-frogout.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Bastion on 14 Dec 2010, 08:30
Hah! Ah the old post-makeout clothes searchTM. Watch out now, you stop paying attention for one minute and then BAM: clothes start "disappearing" like mad! And Angus' shirt is even open a bit! Looks like Faye is more forceful than I had expected!  :-D

Now I could guess as to what Marigold is doing, but I'm sure she's just wishing they'd keep it down and  turn off that damn music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvGwY4tEJQM)

Come on, making out to The Decemberists? Why that's....

hm.

ANYWAYS. I personally think that Faye cares for Marty enough to clean up his vomit should he either yak when she gets there or have fallen asleep in it. I mean if she's leaving a makeout so intense that her bra insta-ported somewhere without either of the participant's knowledge, then she must care about poor piss-drunk Marty quite a bit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 08:48
Tai has it,
...

That's just silly,  and a waste of our time reading it, I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 09:17
Borderline fanfic, really. 

As far as Faye fondling herself, I'm sure Angus will do the honors...

of lending her a coat, or something. 

I see Momo taking the vanished undergarment to a corner of the kitchen, and rigging it up as a hammock...  she just needed some down time away from all the RFI generated by Mari's intense gaming session.  And yes, Hanners will cross paths with Faye.  Marten doesn't stand a chance of being left alone (http://www.octopuspie.com/2010-12-13/420-nothing-is-going-to-be-awesome/). 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 14 Dec 2010, 09:24
I like to believe that Momo is running around the apartment with Faye's bra on her head.


I like this idea. The best part is that she's tangled up in the straps, can't get out, and has NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED.

 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :psyduck: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

poor Momo :)
Title: Re: bra
Post by: Kugai on 14 Dec 2010, 10:54
I bet the bra has been eaten by the green fluffy alien in the corner.

Now that makes sense - in an odd sort of way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 14 Dec 2010, 11:00
Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.

I just hope Marten doesn't try anything stupid in his stupor. :police: I honestly cannot take any more drama at the moment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 14 Dec 2010, 11:04
Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.

I just hope Marten doesn't do anything stupid in his stupor. :police: I honestly cannot take any more drama at the moment.

Uhoh.

Dramadramadramadrama

Yeah, that's gonna be an interesting situation - unless Faye finds her Bra before she leaves.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 14 Dec 2010, 11:10
Borderline fanfic, really.

Reallly not fanfic at all. Just speculating on an elaborate scenario in which Tai would obtain the errant bra.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ecstaticjoy on 14 Dec 2010, 11:19
My first thought was Pintsize, but...how?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 11:23
Not speculating, contriving,  and that in an unconvincing way, I would say.  It is quite clear that that wouldn't happen in the comic - Jeph's a much better writer than that.

Dangling a foot over the line to see what I do, perhaps?

Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.

Faye can defend herself; she's punched him to the floor twice, if I remember right.  And she won't show up just in order to check up on him - she lives there.  And the worst Marten's done when drunk was to demonstrate that he would fail at hitting on a stranger.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 14 Dec 2010, 11:31
Tomorrow at QuestionableContent:

DOOM!!!!!! :psyduck:

Remember that chapter from Futurama? That show was friking hilarious.... IS!

Annnnyway, isn't Hanners supposed to be around there???
EDIT
"around there" as in Marigold and Angus apartment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 14 Dec 2010, 11:32
Now I'm going to make a prediction, and nobody is going to like it. Marten is drunk. Faye is showing up at the apartment to check on him, and will most likely not have a bra on.

I just hope Marten doesn't try anything stupid in his stupor. :police: I honestly cannot take any more drama at the moment.

I seriously doubt anything like this will happen. If Marten was seeing the beast of Bourbon just as Hanners was leaving, then chances are he'll be shitfaced by the time Faye gets to him. Wasted, depressed, and just dumped, his libido's not exactly at full power right now. I see him more likely crying on her shoulder and then puking on her, or at the worst, getting mad and yelling at her, jealous of her new relationship.

Then again, I'm aware that I'm seriously tempting fate by saying I doubt it'll happen, so....it's possible. Oh god I hope it doesn't. Marten needs his best friend right now and I really don't want to see him alienate her by drunkenly coming onto her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 14 Dec 2010, 11:33
this possible plotline is the worst thing ever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 14 Dec 2010, 11:36
Not speculating, contriving,  and that in an unconvincing way, I would say.  It is quite clear that that wouldn't happen in the comic - Jeph's a much better writer than that.

Dangling a foot over the line to see what I do, perhaps?

I agree, and as I'm not the calibre of writer the Jeph is by any stretch of the imagination, I wouldn't endeavour to try and predict what he would actually write so went way outfield, hence picking what I considered the least possible outcome from the poll.  It was in no sense intended to be realistic.

As for dangling a foot, really not the case. I didn't think that it contravened forum ettiquette, but have taken on board the feedback of elder and wiser heads and already remove the offending material. You can be assured that I will avoid crossing that line in the future as best I can.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 12:07
OK, now that's a shame.  If nothing else, I admired the Rube Goldberg-esque quality of the contrivance.  It was massively silly, and out of character for most of the participants, but the mere fact that you connected those two absurdly distant points was impressive. 

No matter how badly done. 

Now, stop shaking in your boots, and make yourself at home! 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 14 Dec 2010, 12:10
I'm more in line with the "cry and puke and Faye" option than anything else, assuming he's even still conscious by the time she gets there. That's more in line with Marten's established character.

Not only is his coming on to Faye unlikely, if he tries it by grabbing her exposed boobs he'll most likely end up in the hospital with a concussion. And with Faye having some 'splainin' to do to his mother...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 12:17
Scenario: 

Faye and Marten drink and talk the rest of the night away, and both pass out on the couch, Marten leaning against Faye.  Ms. Reed shows up, having taken a cab from the airport, and arrives to find her son's head nestled between Faye's bosoms. 

"Well, I see you've moved on already.  I'll just leave you two alone..."

What?  This is classic  sitcom material!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 14 Dec 2010, 12:21
NO.


did marty break out the old hoodie? its black again...

It was noted the day after the breakup.  But after all, he's got plenty (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=560)!

true, but he did switch to a different color after casing the other one



Maybe Angus is a bracollector?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 14 Dec 2010, 12:25
What?  This is classic  sitcom material!

PTHBT!

Jeph doesn't have a laugh track.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 12:50
As for dangling a foot, really not the case. I didn't think that it contravened forum etiquette, but have taken on board the feedback of elder and wiser heads and already remove the offending material. You can be assured that I will avoid crossing that line in the future as best I can.

Thank you; but please don't feel too  chastened.  After all, I didn't even consider peremptorily removing it myself :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 14 Dec 2010, 13:40
in my opinion, which holds precisely zero administrative authority, leave 'offending material'. If nothing else, some other reader further down the line can draw a better idea of where you stepped on your reproductive organs, and possibly avoid foot-related damage to their own genitals...

 :psyduck:
Title: Re: bra
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Dec 2010, 14:11
I bet the bra has been eaten by the green fluffy alien in the corner.

Now that makes sense - in an odd sort of way.

The more I look at it, the more suspicious that damn shrub looks—kind of like the kite-eating tree from Peanuts. Doesn't help that it's more or less center-stage. But we've talking little robots wreaking havoc and superhero delvery people, so, bra-devouring houseplants?
Why not?

Faye can defend herself; she's punched him to the floor twice, if I remember right.
But playfully, yes?

Scenario:  

Faye and Marten drink and talk the rest of the night away, and both pass out on the couch, Marten leaning against Faye.  Ms. Reed shows up, having taken a cab from the airport, and arrives to find her son's head nestled between Faye's bosoms.  

"Well, I see you've moved on already.  I'll just leave you two alone..."

What?  This is classic  sitcom material!

So that's why I never watch those anymore. Because somebody's got to have temporarily removed their brain to make the plot go. Darned brain-removing sitcoms…


Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Dec 2010, 14:14
Yanno, we have Faye's missing sweater, Hannelore's missing purse, and now Faye's missing bra... Maybe there IS a klepto in the crowd.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 14 Dec 2010, 14:29
Well there's an explanation for the missing purse (Hanners left it at the resturant), but yeah Faye's garments seem to disappear inexplicably. Whenever she's with Angus.

If I were Faye I'd start lookin for a "trophy closet."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 14 Dec 2010, 14:33
It's Dale! By wearing his enemy's garments, he gains their powers!

...actually, that's a stupid funny. The scary comes in because THAT WOULD WORK FOR PINTSIZE.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Near Lurker on 14 Dec 2010, 15:04
That's just silly,  and a waste of our time reading it, I think.

Pintsize gave it to her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 15:15
Pintsize is either tied up with duct tape again,  or busy filming Marten's disintegration to put on YouTube.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 15:53
Sounds about right...

I think if I owned one, I'd disable things like the wifi connection, or maybe the whole ethernet card.  Makes you wonder how much of the breakup fight wound up out there...

The first strip compared Pintsize to a family pet, but the family pet doesn't blab online. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2010, 16:01
in my opinion, which holds precisely zero administrative authority, leave 'offending material'.

I would only expect to be considering this in situations when the same material was being brought round repeatedly in spite of warnings. But I would hope to have sufficient control to prevent that point being approached again.

Or in the case of extreme  inappropriate material.  On the stream of Jeph's drawing the current comic this morning (my time), there was a troll logging in to deliver personal insults to him, who kept coming back with a new login each time Jeph blocked him and deleted his messages.  He was very persistent, and it seemed to me to happen enough times to delay the production of the comic.  I can assure you that there would have been no value whatever in preserving the messages in that case!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: galarant on 14 Dec 2010, 16:03
Anyone else notice that Jeph draws Faye's boobs slightly different (bigger?) because she is not wearing a bra in these panels?

You gotta respect that attention to detail...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tomart on 14 Dec 2010, 16:13
...yeah Faye's garments seem to disappear inexplicably. Whenever she's with Angus.

If I were Faye I'd start lookin for a "trophy closet."

Hilarity ensues when her garments KEEP disappearing there, Angus is about to be strung up by his (entrails?) but then we discover Pintsize somehow got Angus' couch (or creepy houseplant) to "collect" them... earning Pintsize enough creepiness points to trigger Faye's uberwrath upon him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 16:37
He's been known to modify couches  (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=646) in the past, and he knows where Angus lives (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1416)...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Dec 2010, 16:54
Or we might all be off the mark—Angus might, unbeknownst even to himself, be Barney Springboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapped!) reborn regurgitated*.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ysth on 14 Dec 2010, 18:15
I read "stuck in the folds of the crotch"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 14 Dec 2010, 18:59
heyo
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: soren121 on 14 Dec 2010, 19:19
Plausible theory: Pintsize Remote Desktop'd/telnet'd/ssh'd into Momo and made her steal Faye's bra.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 14 Dec 2010, 19:47
wooo go waffles, maybe you will finally win a poll :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 14 Dec 2010, 20:38
wooo go waffles, maybe you will finally win a poll :psyduck:

Can I change my vote?! :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Blackjoker on 14 Dec 2010, 20:46
I love the look on their faces in the second to last panel...and the idea of a bra eating shrubbery amuses me to no end.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: SJCrew on 14 Dec 2010, 21:19
<snip>
Edit:
She could just walk down the street fondling herself...
Now there is a mental image I do not need.

Then don't look back here. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=89)
You just reminded me of how much I missed the old Faye's swagger.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 21:32
Lord help me, I really do have better things to do; 

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5262304859_b7cd8d2cd4_b.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Penquin47 on 14 Dec 2010, 21:37
This strip is kind of bugging me.

I am a rather well-endowed woman.  Now, I can believe that in the heat of the makeouts, someone could take my bra off without me noticing at the time, or I could do it and not pay attention.  However, what I can't believe is that it would be done *leaving my shirt where it is*.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 14 Dec 2010, 21:45
Hm.

I just realized that I read the character's lines in different voices now that the art has changed. I used to think of Faye as using a higher pitched, almost squeaky voice. Now it's a bit huskier, more timbre to it. Dora also changed, but I'm having a harder time finding the words to say how.

Marten's the only one who I think of using the same voice continuously.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sharp on 14 Dec 2010, 22:30
I hear ya man, I used to read the early Hannelore with a low, "smokers" voice; kind of hoarse and scratchy, but not gross. Now, I read her as kind of "chirpy" or squeaky, with a note of tiredness.

For me, the hard part of reading the old comics is seeing Faye rail-thin! And then seeing her become more and more curvaceous while having to remember that she IS curvy even while skinny but she's skinny but I have to remember that she's NOT skinny and- Oh Lord I've gone cross-eyed. @[email protected]
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 14 Dec 2010, 22:43
This strip is kind of bugging me.

I am a rather well-endowed woman.  Now, I can believe that in the heat of the makeouts, someone could take my bra off without me noticing at the time, or I could do it and not pay attention.  However, what I can't believe is that it would be done *leaving my shirt where it is*.

MST3K Mantra (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra), fellow busty girl (yes I'm a woman)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 14 Dec 2010, 23:15
From Jeph's Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/jephjacques)

Quote
Okay, I think I've hit the darkest point I'm gonna hit with this whole breakup storyline. Hoo boy.

Hold on to your butts!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Dec 2010, 23:27
I am a rather well-endowed woman.  Now, I can believe that in the heat of the makeouts, someone could take my bra off without me noticing at the time, or I could do it and not pay attention.  However, what I can't believe is that it would be done *leaving my shirt where it is*.

Both my wife and my older daughter are well endowed.  They (and my other daughter) have the incredible ability to remove their bras while not disturbing their shirts.  I understand it doesn't really take all that much practice, but the effect is rather like a magic trick. 

The only problem is finding them piled with the kicked-off shoes in the corner of the kitchen.  For my daugher, it's the first thing off when she gets home from work!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: knucklesandgyros on 14 Dec 2010, 23:30
From Jeph's Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/jephjacques)

Quote
Okay, I think I've hit the darkest point I'm gonna hit with this whole breakup storyline. Hoo boy.

Hold on to your butts!

*wields UBMEOD* I'm ready. Bring it on!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Shremedy on 14 Dec 2010, 23:58
My Even Better Missing Bra TheoryTM:  This strip is the beginning of a buildup to a Wapsi Square crossover.  Monica *poited* the bra by accident while trying to *poit* her own bra (very similar in size to Faye's, for those not familiar with the character) somewhere.  While trying to correct this, Monica will not get the teleport's return coordinates quite right, Faye's bra will reappear about a foot over her head and soft-land (http://wapsisquare.com/comic/hang-of-this/).  Hilarity ensues.

Okay, maybe I'd better rename this the Wild-Ass Theory That Involves Things From Outside of QCTM.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 15 Dec 2010, 00:20
Oh please tell me Marten isn't going to do something stupid......

Or at least let Marten finally do something to Pintsize (after the last few stunts, the little bastard deserves to be taken apart for a few days).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ysth on 15 Dec 2010, 00:22
Hm.

I just realized that I read the character's lines in different voices now that the art has changed. I used to think of Faye as using a higher pitched, almost squeaky voice. Now it's a bit huskier, more timbre to it. Dora also changed, but I'm having a harder time finding the words to say how.

Marten's the only one who I think of using the same voice continuously.
Do the voices in my head bother you?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 00:45
 :psyduck: oh God I've been wondering if there was another shoe, and when it was gonna drop. Now we know there is, and it is due for landfall. It is damn good that we have Mr. Hodges as mod now, because I sense this new darkness may bring a storm here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 01:08
Hmm.

Laaaaate comic.

I never thought of any specific voice when reading character lines.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 01:24
Oh please tell me Marten isn't going to do something stupid......

Well, he is  drunk...  Oh dear.

Not playpunching.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Loki on 15 Dec 2010, 01:30
Plausible theory: Pintsize Remote Desktop'd/telnet'd/ssh'd into Momo and made her steal Faye's bra.
If Pintsize ever ssh'd into Momo, the most likely thing he would make her do is downloading Marigold's porn she undoubtedly has on her computer to him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 01:32
And note, if this was the darkest point, as Jeph said, then things should start to improve from here, however slowly - right?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Dec 2010, 01:32
In vino veritas.  In other words, is it worse than Marten said this now or that he always thought it but kept it to himself?

Either way, does making a move on someone warrant getting punched?  If she had simply let him fall when he tried that it'd be one thing, but that violence was uncalled for, even for Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: sluthy on 15 Dec 2010, 01:35
If Pintsize ever ssh'd into Momo, the most likely thing he would make her do is downloading Marigold's porn she undoubtedly has on her computer to him.

Why would he do that when a lot of it was already his (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1414)?

Also, yay, first post. The registration worked this time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 15 Dec 2010, 01:36
****KLAXON**** RED ALERT ****KLAXON****

 :psyduck: Oh Jesus!  :psyduck:

 :psyduck: Oh Jesus!  :psyduck:

 :psyduck: Oh Jesus!  :psyduck:

****KLAXON**** RED ALERT ****KLAXON****
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Loki on 15 Dec 2010, 01:36
In vino veritas.  In other words, is it worse than Marten said this now or that he always thought it but kept it to himself?

Either way, does making a move on someone warrant getting punched?  If she had simply let him fall when he tried that it'd be one thing, but that violence was uncalled for, even for Faye.
Well, considering she is just comig from a make-out session with her boyfriend, she may have felt more than a little disturbed.
If Pintsize ever ssh'd into Momo, the most likely thing he would make her do is downloading Marigold's porn she undoubtedly has on her computer to him.

Why would he do that when a lot of it was already his (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1414)?

Also, yay, first post. The registration worked this time.
Pintsize can never have enough porn.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: redragon5000 on 15 Dec 2010, 01:38
Well, he was gonna have a headache the day after anyway...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odal on 15 Dec 2010, 01:40
I think Marten is fortunate to have a friend like Faye in this situation.  She knocked him out before his drunken bitterness could turn into anything worse.

He's not fortunate, however, for how much worse his hangover will probably be.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Dec 2010, 01:44
She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right.  I'm not saying that he is right, or even that he'll think so when he wakes up, but it's probably something that she's considered.

She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 15 Dec 2010, 01:47
Yeah, well, she's working on that. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Loki on 15 Dec 2010, 01:48
The probably worst thing is that he might not remember anything he has said the next day. I hate when that happens.  :psyduck:

She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right.
Well, that would provide something to talk about in her next therapy session. That means we might see Dr. Corinne again. Yay!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 15 Dec 2010, 01:51
She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.

Can't really blame her. This is the first, the very first time Marten has ever A) Expressed anger/resentment towards her right to her face, and B) tried to come onto her. This is probably a situation she never thought she'd be in, so when she's unexpectedly thrown into it, she automatically goes to her default response, which, though she hasn't used in awhile, is still pretty deeply ingrained.

Ms. Reed is gonna walk right into one huge pile of shit when she gets there....
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 15 Dec 2010, 01:58
Well, Marten's not so drunk that he can't get up off the couch/teleport onto Faye's shoulder, but he's drunk enough to possibly ruin his relationship with one of his closest friends. That's a very specific level of drunk, and unfortunately Faye walked in at what was obviously the wrong time in hindsight. She's almost certainly right about Marten not remembering this tomorrow, but I worry about the other half of what she said.

It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. And when you consider the reason she went home, cutting short the makeup session, was to check up on him, I imagine that she might be spending a lot more time over at Angus's.

We might actually see the location of the comic trend towards over there anyway. More of the cast is hanging out over there than any place other than coffee of doom.

Edit:
Also, re-reading the comic again, Marten is an even bigger dick than I realized the first time through. Him taking full credit for her recovery, when she's worked hard to go through therapy and take chances all on her own, and then bringing up Sven. I'm pretty sure bringing up Sven around Faye is an automatic penalty, even without the context he added in. Then, he calls her boyfriend a dick and throws out one of the douchiest, most pathetic come on lines I can think of.

I think bourbon, or any other alcohol in large quantities, should now be off limits. If Faye is willing to forgive him for what he's said, then she gets the right to keep it from happening again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 15 Dec 2010, 01:59
She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right.  I'm not saying that he is right, or even that he'll think so when he wakes up, but it's probably something that she's considered.

She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.

I think she knocked him out because he was about to do something [Dr.Cox]RE-he-HE-he-HE-hea-LLY[/Dr.Cox] stupid.

I'm not sure how you can handle a situation like that at all.

(Ok, maybe it wasn't a great idea to spend several hours making out with Angus before making sure that Marten wasn't going to go out of control, but is that really her responsibility?)

Can't really blame her. This is the first, the very first time Marten has ever A) Expressed anger/resentment towards her right to her face, and B) tried to come onto her. This is probably a situation she never thought she'd be in, so when she's unexpectedly thrown into it, she automatically goes to her default response, which, though she hasn't used in awhile, is still pretty deeply ingrained.

He didn't just try to come on to her, He was like trying to grab her... That wasn't an irrational emotional defense mechanism, that was self-defense.

Quote
Ms. Reed is gonna walk right into one huge pile of shit when she gets there....

You can say that two times.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 15 Dec 2010, 02:07
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. And when you consider the reason she went home, cutting short the makeup session, was to check up on him, I imagine that she might be spending a lot more time over at Angus's.

We might actually see the location of the comic trend towards over there anyway. More of the cast is hanging out over there than any place other than coffee of doom.

I don't think it's fair to say Marten's going to keep harassing her when he's drunk, this was a pretty extenuating circumstance and even though he might get drunk more often, I think he's at his lowest level of depression now (someone who's been through an equally bad breakup please correct me if I'm wrong).

But whether he does or not, I agree that Faye's not going to be as comfortable living with Marten from here on out. And if he really doesn't  remember this in the morning, will Faye tell him about it?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 15 Dec 2010, 02:09
Man...Marten can't take a punch even when he's wasted.  :-P

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

IT BEGINS!!![/Barney Gumble]
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 15 Dec 2010, 02:09
...ho boy  :psyduck: I don't like being that guy who says "I told you so" but...

Poor Marten is in a bad place right now, and unfortunately his drunken state isn't helping things much.

In other news, this is the first time ever that I was in agreement with Faye for punching Marten. You're 1-Infinity Faye, I know you can even the score!

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Oh for fuck sake, NOT AGAIN!

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 02:11
Y'know what? Good on you, Faye. That was a bad situation thoroughly defused through the tactical use of violence, and I think that you just saved you two's moirallegiance. I really doubt Marten meant what he was saying--sure, there's a kernel of truth there, but it's distorted and made dark by bourbon's tendrils.

Hopefully, Faye won't resent what he said too much.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: carg1 on 15 Dec 2010, 02:13
One way to interpret Marten's drunken outburst is being a dick, absolutely.  Bluntly, rudely honest ignoring the nuances of the overall situation?  I think thats another way.  Nothing I'd say to anyone myself, even drunkenly I'd hope, but he's taken more than enough of his ration of shit and I think everybody should get one.  Of course I knew he was gonna ktfo'd once he tried touching Faye.  Is it just me or is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 15 Dec 2010, 02:16
In other words, is it worse than Marten said this now or that he always thought it but kept it to himself?
Yes. I'm surprised Marten's still conscious, so it's not too surprising that he's peeled away enough layers of maturity to get down to the selfish two-year-old that lurks in us all, but I'm disappointed he couldn't keep his hands to himself when they were clearly unwelcome. While he might not remember the blow, the black eye or bruised jaw might be a hint in the morning that he stepped over the line. Could be awkward, but I think Faye's a "you've had your lumps, let's forget it" kind of girl. She really should learn not to punch to the head though, it's a good way to injure your hands.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 02:18
is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?

We've seen many (though not for a long time), but those against Marten previously have always been playpunching, however hard - I stand by that because they were not such as to affect their relationship.  The only non-play violence I recall is when Faye threw Angus across the bar for getting far less familiar than Marten just did.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 02:23
The "selfish two-year-old that lurks in us all" is a wonderful way to put that, Akima.

Are you  sure Marten is still conscious? I was rather hoping he wasn't, dude needs to shut up and Now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 15 Dec 2010, 02:24
It's also not completely clear what type or level of "violence" Faye used here.

In Panel 3, she has her open hand on Marten's chest, so it's possible that she simply pushed Marten and given his current level of impairment he fell.

However, in Panel 4, Faye has clenched fists and has assumed a fighting stance, so she may have punched him, or she may simply have assumed that stance as a fight or flight response.

One thing is clear, however, if Marten is going to turn to Dr. Daniels to deal with his problems, he's going to have much bigger problems as a result.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
...Sheesh, again?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 15 Dec 2010, 02:32
Hoo boy, someone's going to feel that one in the morning.

I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.

Or all of the above.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 02:36
Well, that was a great chapter. Marten's well-earned his drunken jerkitude, so all the power to him to make an ass of himself to his heart's content for the night. In fact, I'd be tickled pink to see him retain consciousness long enough to come to the realization (after his little drunken speech) that like Faye, now Dora will get her issues resolved thanks at least in part to him and the breakup, which will lead her to more healthy relationships in the future. Of course, depending on how drunk he is, this would be the point where the inevitable epiphany kicks in that he exists essentially as a garage pitstop on Relationship Road to repair the women in his life and send them off to sleep with the rest of the gang at Hipster Junction (Sven "quizzing" at the gate). Now to move on to Hanners, and with Anges tied up with our disturbingly strong femme fatale, eventually Marigold.

Seriously though, I pray Faye doesn't take his drunken ramblings too much to heart, since he's in a pretty bad place right now, and mainly, drunk off his damn ass on what could only be worse if it was glowing. It's somewhat hard to stay mad at him for it, especially given his track record, and Faye doesn't seem like the type to hold a grudge over this given past arguments and such.

I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.

Or all of the above.
I imagine the more depressing (and potentially likely, depending on how pissed Faye is) scenario is to wake up all alone in a puddles of the stuff all over the floor.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 02:37
Are you  sure Marten is still conscious? I was rather hoping he wasn't, dude needs to shut up and Now.

If he isn't he's probably been pushed into the "curled up the the fetal position, blubbering like a baby" stage of alcohol depression.

Though honestly, the amount of crap Marten has put up with in general and from Faye in particular, if this is a one time thing, it'll probably just be let go. You'd hope, anyway.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Goddammit!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Craig on 15 Dec 2010, 02:46
is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?

We've seen many (though not for a long time), but those against Marten previously have always been playpunching, however hard - I stand by that because they were not such as to affect their relationship.  The only non-play violence I recall is when Faye threw Angus across the bar for getting far less familiar than Marten just did.

Actual violence against Agent Turing in 148 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=148)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 02:53
Response to harrassment by Marten in 378 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=378) - a totally not dark preview of today.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: no one special on 15 Dec 2010, 02:54
Quote
Warning - while you were reading 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
While I was reading??  I haven't even written anything yet, what's to review???    :psyduck:

Ohhhhh boy.  Marten, you did it this time.  Some things, once they're said, can't be unsaid.  It's gonna take a whole lot for Faye to forgive this, and even then, she'll probably never forget.  I can't even imagine how drunk he must be to say something that harsh, and THEN top it off with... well, that.  That was a perfect storm of assholery... something we didn't think Marten capable of, but there ya go.  I mean, sometimes you do something hurtful, and sometimes you say something hurtful - but all at the same time?  Man, Marten, when you blow shit up, you go all OUT.  I mean... wow.  Who's Faye's gonna lean on now?  She doesn't know Angus well enough yet, and she sure as hell can't tell Dora about this.  Who's left?   

For the record, I do hope that Faye says something to him about it, even if he doesn't remember, because there's obviously some unresolved stuff on Marten's part that needs to get hammered out if they're gonna salvage this thing. 

Ok, ok, maybe I'm going too hyperbolic.  I'm sure they'll be able to get past this eventually.  But it'll be a long time before Faye's comfortable drinking with Marten again. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 15 Dec 2010, 03:02
After tonight, it'll be a while before Marten's comfortable drinking again. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Dec 2010, 03:18
Oh geeze. The first part is dickish, but understandably drunk-and-upset levels of dickish, but the second part... well, that's a kind of asshole I didn't really think Marten had in him. Except maybe that one part where he called Vicky a psycho ex bitch or whatever. Apparently he still has some Nice Guy tendencies he has to work on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Dec 2010, 03:23
Wow. He finally actually deserved her hitting him.

Don't be too pissed at him, Faye. Dude's in pain. Well, now he's really in pain, but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 03:28
Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 15 Dec 2010, 03:29
Well, that was a great chapter. Marten's well-earned his drunken jerkitude, so all the power to him to make an ass of himself to his heart's content for the night. In fact, I'd be tickled pink to see him retain consciousness long enough to come to the realization (after his little drunken speech) that like Faye, now Dora will get her issues resolved thanks at least in part to him and the breakup, which will lead her to more healthy relationships in the future. Of course, depending on how drunk he is, this would be the point where the inevitable epiphany kicks in that he exists essentially as a garage pitstop on Relationship Road to repair the women in his life and send them off to sleep with the rest of the gang at Hipster Junction (Sven "quizzing" at the gate). Now to move on to Hanners, and with Anges tied up with our disturbingly strong femme fatale, eventually Marigold.

Seriously though, I pray Faye doesn't take his drunken ramblings too much to heart, since he's in a pretty bad place right now, and mainly, drunk off his damn ass on what could only be worse if it was glowing. It's somewhat hard to stay mad at him for it, especially given his track record, and Faye doesn't seem like the type to hold a grudge over this given past arguments and such.

I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.

Or all of the above.
I imagine the more depressing (and potentially likely, depending on how pissed Faye is) scenario is to wake up all alone in a puddles of the stuff all over the floor.

Actually, my new prediction is follows: Ms Reed drags Marty off to Cod to force him and Dora to talk about their issues. Marty then throws up on Dora's shoes and passes out. Hannelore faints.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 03:36
Actually, my new prediction is follows: Ms Reed drags Marty off to Cod to force him and Dora to talk about their issues. Marty then throws up on Dora's shoes and passes out. Hannelore faints.
And Dora pisses herself in fear, too, considering I don't believe she's been informed of the arrival Ms. Reed. Hell, Faye might be sweating a few bullets herself, when Ms. Reed queries on the gang on why her son is missing some teeth. :D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 15 Dec 2010, 03:36
Well, that was a great chapter. Marten's well-earned his drunken jerkitude, so all the power to him to make an ass of himself to his heart's content for the night. In fact, I'd be tickled pink to see him retain consciousness long enough to come to the realization (after his little drunken speech) that like Faye, now Dora will get her issues resolved thanks at least in part to him and the breakup, which will lead her to more healthy relationships in the future. Of course, depending on how drunk he is, this would be the point where the inevitable epiphany kicks in that he exists essentially as a garage pitstop on Relationship Road to repair the women in his life and send them off to sleep with the rest of the gang at Hipster Junction (Sven "quizzing" at the gate). Now to move on to Hanners, and with Anges tied up with our disturbingly strong femme fatale, eventually Marigold.

Seriously though, I pray Faye doesn't take his drunken ramblings too much to heart, since he's in a pretty bad place right now, and mainly, drunk off his damn ass on what could only be worse if it was glowing. It's somewhat hard to stay mad at him for it, especially given his track record, and Faye doesn't seem like the type to hold a grudge over this given past arguments and such.

I'm trying to work out who Marty's going to throw up on in the morning; Faye, Dora, Ms Reed, Hannelore or Pintsize.

Or all of the above.
I imagine the more depressing (and potentially likely, depending on how pissed Faye is) scenario is to wake up all alone in a puddles of the stuff all over the floor.

Actually, my new prediction is follows: Ms Reed drags Marty off to Cod to force him and Dora to talk about their issues. Marty then throws up on Dora's shoes and passes out. Hannelore faints.
You forgot "...just as the health inspector walks in."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Dec 2010, 03:39
She may have knocked him out because she's worried that he's right.  I'm not saying that he is right, or even that he'll think so when he wakes up, but it's probably something that she's considered.

She may have gone with good intentions, but she really did not handle that well.

Did not handle what well? The punching? I have always hated when she punched Marten in earlier strips (NOT play punching, regardless of how she "intended" it and the fact that Marten put up with it--it would regularly leave serious bruises that lasted several days and were apparently painful, let alone the times he has indeed knocked him to the floor), but in this case I'd agree it was self-defense. And probably best for Marten to just end the night there, rather than running the risk of whatever else he might do.

Or did you mean the entire Marten situation? Because while she did not handle the lead-up, what with the sometime-flirting and the occasional taking-advantage of his attraction to her, she handled Marten's confession as well as one could be expected to. No person in the world owes it to another person to be romantically interested in them. Neither do they owe it to them to be in an appropriate state to be romantically receptive. Someone (let's say person X) can be not ready for a relationship when person A asks, but then be ready for a relationship with person B, and while that may not be "fair" that is not something done to person A, but simply the way things are. It has to do with person X, not person A. In other words: it's not about Marten.

Also, the way he brought up "my girlfriend dumped me" definitely sounds very dismissive of the actual value of his relationship with Dora. It makes it sound like he just wanted a girlfriend, any girlfriend, and basically saw Dora as the means of getting "there"--ie, her value to her was just her interchangeable role as "girlfriend" rather than as Dora, and now he's pissed that he's no longer in possession of "girlfriend," which is something he seems to feel entitled to for being a "nice guy" (as far as his words here--not saying he would put it that way if he were sober).  Obviously, the fact that he got to spend over a year in a stable relationship that gave him a lot of pleasure while Faye's situation was far less comfortable isn't entering his drunk mind here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 15 Dec 2010, 03:40
You forgot "...just as the health inspector walks in."

That really would be getting close to rocks fall, everyone dies territory.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 03:44
Faye, Dora, Marten, Pintsize, The Health Inspector

Please order these characters in the order in which you think they're going to crumble under the piercing gaze of Veronica Reed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 15 Dec 2010, 03:50
It's unlikely that Pintsize will fall under anyone's gaze for a while, considering he's duck taped to the back wall of the freezer, and hidden by a bag of frozen peas.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 15 Dec 2010, 03:57
Ah, Marten has officially resumed his role as the strip's Chew Toy. Complete with punchings.

Boy is there gonna be some blowback for this. Drunken bitterness or not, I HIGHLY doubt Faye is gonna forgive Marten easily both for what he said and tried to do. He will be paying for this night for some time to come, and I ain't talking 'bout the hangover either.

Perhaps he should take an extended vacation back home with mom (in other words RUN FOR HIS LIFE!!). Eh, wait, he can't be the Chew Toy if he's gone...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 04:03
It's unlikely that Pintsize will fall under anyone's gaze for a while, considering he's duck taped to the back wall of the freezer, and hidden by a bag of frozen peas.

If you're suggesting that Pintsize is laying the ground for a frozen fleshlight, peas and large bra related practical joke then I think that's in poor taste.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Polonius on 15 Dec 2010, 04:03
Marten I think has just had a life collapse.  there are times, when we think we have our lives in order and figured out, that when things change for the worse, we realize how little control we really have.  Most people go through it sophomore year of college.  A lot go through it in their mid to late 20's.

Marten has a dead end job, he's in a go-nowhere band, his silver medal girlfriend dumped him, and he's realizing that his "best friend" that he spend nearly a year fixing up is totally ready to sleep with other guys now.  What does he lose by blowing up his life and starting over?

Originally, I was going to focus just on his relationship to Faye.  What does he get out of it?  What makes her valuable to him?  In other words, in what ways would his life be worse if she moved out and never saw him again?

I'd imagine Marten is going to work on getting all parts of his life in order.  That, or just use Sven and Tai's connections to start blazing a path through the local college girls.

And as for faye forgiving him, I think the problem isnt' what he said.  The problem is that what he said was more true than false.  And, not to sound like an apologist, but wouldn't Faye need to apologize for, I dunno, knocking marten out?  I don't know about your circle of friends, but violence is worse than words.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 15 Dec 2010, 04:03
Eh, wait, he can't be the Chew Toy if he's gone...

I find your lack of imagination hilarious. If Jeph sends him back home, it will not be blissful relaxation in store for poor Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 04:06
what the hell? I didn't think Marten would ever let that kind of thing happen, but, reading back, he sometimes got kinda really drunk, and didn't handle the situations... the best way (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=514).

And does this confession mean he just put up a happy face when Faye had her "relationship" with Sven? As far as I remember, he even defended her against Dora, but also mentioned his not being angry had something to do with the hot, hot Dora-sexin'.

Boy is there gonna be some blowback for this. Drunken bitterness or not, I HIGHLY doubt Faye is gonna forgive Marten easily both for what he said and tried to do. He will be paying for this night for some time to come, and I ain't talking 'bout the hangover either.

Eh, I don't think it will be that hard. Faye's honest, she doesn't put up with that kind of behaviour, but she also knows that she owes Marten big time, and that he's in a real bad place now. She'll be there for him as she was for Dora, angry or not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 15 Dec 2010, 04:10
But she will  be angry.  This is not something easily forgotten. 

Well, not when you're the sober party. 

She'll forgive him soon enough, but won't forget. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 04:17
She may be angry, but she wont stew, methinks, and she knows what's said is alcohol-influenced. Faye has become very good at just getting issues out there and confronting them.

I think, based on what she did with the other "I chose Angus over Marty D:" scenario, where she was honest and contrite about making Marten jump through hoops rather than just telling him up front about her father's suicide, she will probably confront Marten with what he said, once they're both ready, and ask him very quietly how much he means that.

If Marten deserves half the positive read we give him, he will drop his own defenses and admit to the girl that is plainly his Goddamn moirail and deserves his trust pretty implicitly that he is hurting so Goddamn bad right now and of course he didn't mean that shit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 04:21
Ah, Marten has official resumed his role as the strip's Chew Toy. Complete with punchings.

Boy is there gonna be some blowback for this. Drunken bitterness or not, I HIGHLY doubt Faye is gonna forgive Marten easily both for what he said and tried to do. He will be paying for this night for some time to come, and I ain't talking 'bout the hangover either.

Perhaps he should take an extended vacation back home with mom (in other words RUN FOR HIS LIFE!!). Eh, wait, he can't be the Chew Toy if he's gone...

The only possible way this could get truly dark is if Jeph has Marten staggering back up in tomorrow's strip and unleashing even more verbal stuff and/or an actual retaliation (or attempt at one, pulling back to let fly a return punch and tripping and face-planting, then throwing up and laying passed out in his own puke).

That, or having actual, serious injuries result from this punching Faye gave him. I'm talking actual concussion territory, cracked cheekbone/jaw, something.

Either way, Faye moves out and Marten has to finally get his own round of therapy, because this Nice Guy stuff that peeked out has always been there (as I've been repeatedly telling people in the various discussions of Marten's personality over the years here).

EDIT: 2 replies posted while I typed this.

She may be angry, but she wont stew, methinks, and she knows what's said is alcohol-influenced. Faye has become very good at just getting issues out there and confronting them.

I think, based on what she did with the other "I chose Angus over Marty D:" scenario, where she was honest and contrite about making Marten jump through hoops rather than just telling him up front about her father's suicide, she will probably confront Marten with what he said, once they're both ready, and ask him very quietly how much he means that.

If Marten deserves half the positive read we give him, he will drop his own defenses and admit to the girl that is plainly his Goddamn moirail and deserves his trust pretty implicitly that he is hurting so Goddamn bad right now and of course he didn't mean that shit.

Marten meant every single word, it just took the bourbon for him not to care anymore about the consequences of actually saying what he meant. He's wrong, we know this, but this is what he truly thinks of what has been going on and I'm actually kind of surprised Jeph himself threw out such a blatant "Yep, Marten is still the Nice Guy he was back in strip #1" billboard for everyone arguing over his personality.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 04:22
moirail

Where does this word come from, and what does it mean or imply?  I've never known Google to be so useless!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 04:26
Apparently it means a kind of guardian/friend/trusted one. Had to google that one, too, see (http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Troll_Relationships#Moirallegiance_.E2.99.A6)

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 04:28
Thanks - I ignored the links with the word Troll, 'cos I was thinking of Internet-type trolls; silly me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 04:34
Marten meant every single word, it just took the bourbon for him not to care anymore about the consequences of actually saying what he meant. He's wrong, we know this, but this is what he truly thinks of what has been going on and I'm actually kind of surprised Jeph himself threw out such a blatant "Yep, Marten is still the Nice Guy he was back in strip #1" billboard for everyone arguing over his personality.

Eh, yes and no. I've no doubt he means it to some degree, but he deliberately phrased it to be a dick. I doubt he genuinely believes he's the sole reason Faye got over her "boy issues" but he acknowledges that he was a decisive factor in the matter and is now rubbing it in her face, by applying it the the Nth power.

moirail

Where does this word come from, and what does it mean or imply?  I've never known Google to be so useless!

The only place I've stumbled across the word is TvTropes (which is pretty much a mandatory read.) Near as I can allued to it's kind of a Living Emotional Crutch, with some sexual connotations hanging in the air.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: bhtooefr on 15 Dec 2010, 04:36
You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.

What if Dora was right about her insecurities?

Then again, this is Marten, and going with the flow of staying with Dora would've been the easier option that he probably would've taken...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 04:39
Living emotional crutch...? Not how I meant it.  :psyduck:

The read I got on the word was "one's absolute best friend", the person who's with you through thick and thin; or at least that's the ideal meaning of the word. I think it encapsulates Marten and Faye's state pretty well, post-actual romance.

The term comes from Andrew Hussie's excellent "Homestuck", and the Alternian Trolls' romance concepts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 04:42
Living emotional crutch...? Not how I meant it.  :psyduck:

The read I got on the word was "one's absolute best friend", the person who's with you through thick and thin; or at least that's the ideal meaning of the word. I think it encapsulates Marten and Faye's state pretty well, post-actual romance.

The term comes from Andrew Hussie's excellent "Homestuck", and the Alternian Trolls' romance concepts.

Ah, that's just the page I found it on:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LivingEmotionalCrutch


Oh crap! Now I have to sink 5 hours of my life to reading every link on that page again... :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 04:49
NOOOOOOO! Don't link to the tvtropes, now I'll lose at least an hour of reading.. it has alreadly.. too late. :psyduck:


You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.

What if Dora was right about her insecurities?

Then again, this is Marten, and going with the flow of staying with Dora would've been the easier option that he probably would've taken...

Hm, I don't think Marten's really into her, he just can't end such feelings (Dora and Marten even fought about that once, cue, "go back to your other five girlfriends")
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 15 Dec 2010, 04:51
You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.

What if Dora was right about her insecurities?

Oh, good, someone opened Pandora's Box for me...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 04:52
I think they threw it in there on account of that's how it tends to get employed, and why moirallegiances tend to break down--it's supposed to mean you take a deep interest in each other's well-being, that you look out for one another emotionally as well as being best friends.

Faye's trusted Marten to look after her in the past, and it's high time he does the same for her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 04:55
I think they threw it in there on account of that's how it tends to get employed, and why moirallegiances tend to break down--it's supposed to mean you take a deep interest in each other's well-being, that you look out for one another emotionally as well as being best friends.

Faye's trusted Marten to look after her in the past, and it's high time he does the same for her.

Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 04:59
Pffffffffft !!!!!!!

Seriously !!!!!!

Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ?

Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.

Faye reached a new level of completely and utterly uncool.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 05:02
Pintsize can never have enough porn.
Well ... not really true, he obviously has harddrive limits.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 05:03
I'm highly tempted to just post a youtube link to M. Bison's "Yes! Yes!" video...but I don't think anyone does that sort of thing on these forums.

I'll just say I found this development highly entertaining and, at the same time, reasonable considering his situation and degree of inebriation. Pretty sure he'll regret it when he sobers up and pretty sure Faye will be understanding, cause she's been generally supportive throughout this whole ordeal.

Keep it up, Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 05:05
Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.
Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 05:07
Pffffffffft !!!!!!!

Seriously !!!!!!

Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ?

Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.

Faye reached a new level of completely and utterly uncool.

You suck at trolling, dude.

Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.
Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.

That line about how at least one of them wouldn't remember what happened indicates otherwise.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 05:07
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.

And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.

And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??

To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.

What the heck ?!?!?!?!??
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 05:14
One way to interpret Marten's drunken outburst is being a dick, absolutely.  Bluntly, rudely honest ignoring the nuances of the overall situation?  I think thats another way.  Nothing I'd say to anyone myself, even drunkenly I'd hope, but he's taken more than enough of his ration of shit and I think everybody should get one.  Of course I knew he was gonna ktfo'd once he tried touching Faye.  Is it just me or is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?
Um, honesty ? Personally I think he's just repeating now the stupid theories that have been thrown at him all the time while he was with Dora.

They are still as stupid as before, but as he is drunk now, he is no longer able to see that, and actually believes them right now.

Also, um, havent you ever read the early QC comics ? Faye has been a lot more violent in the past, especially in the early comics.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 05:15
Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.
Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.

That line about how at least one of them wouldn't remember what happened indicates otherwise.
I think that indicates she's pissed off by what he just spouted, is what it indicates, and she's got every right. But this is Faye, and she has said straight out that Marten is her best friend in the world and she can barely take him being mad at her. She'll give him a sober chance to apologize and spill his guts.

If he tries to act all nonchalant and hipster cool, THEN he's fucked it right up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Millennium on 15 Dec 2010, 05:17
Oh please tell me Marten isn't going to do something stupid......

Well, he is  drunk...  Oh dear.

Not playpunching.
Well, duh. He's drunk and he's getting aggressive when she's clearly not comfortable with the situation. Faye did absolutely the right thing on this one.

The possible repercussions of this, though, worry me. Marten officially ventured into the realm of Doing Something Creepy this time, and sure, he was drunk, but the fact remains that he crossed the line from being a nice guy to being a Nice Guy. That stands to potentially cause... problems, maybe not on a #500 level, but enough to kick the current drama up another notch.

In other words, yeah; I'm with Boomslang.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 05:22
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.

And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.

And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??

To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.

What the heck ?!?!?!?!??


You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).

More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 15 Dec 2010, 05:22
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??

You're either very much misinterpreting what I said, or quoting the wrong person.

You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).
More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)

There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 15 Dec 2010, 05:26
I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.
I don't. Remember Faye's threat????


Also, i have a hunch that Faye is going to come home and kick Marten's ass. Maybe it's crazyness talking, but just a hunch.
:psyduck: I knew it, i knew it, i knew it!

Great for Marten though, i think this is going to help him stand up for himself a little more.

Also, how long has it been that we have saw an act of violence towards Marten from Faye? ahh, good times.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 05:27
So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.
 :psyduck: (I hope I am using the duck correctly.)

I found this episode... not out of character for Marten.  On some level, he thinks the women in his life are using his niceness for their own advantage and not rewarding him for his good qualities.  Marten's stuck in a rut and he's lashing out at the people who he's populated his rut with (except Hanners - how can you lash out at Hanners?) and also trying to punish himself.

I've been dreading Faye returning to the apartment since Marten broke out the bourbon, because I thought something like this might unfold, although I never anticipated Marten being this brutally dickish.  Marten hitting on Faye the way he did is masochistic on a number of levels:
- he's sort of proving Dora right by throwing himself at Faye after their breakup (and also as a "F*ck you, I'll do what I want now" to Dora).
- he's earning himself another rejection (and physical violence).
- he's distancing himself from his best friend by punishing her for the failure of his relationship, and coming on to her when she's made it clear over and over again that she's not interested.  

I wonder if Faye will think that Marten actually does still have feelings for her and re-interpret recent events accordingly.  It doesn't look good for Marten, and now neither of them has a neutral party/best friend to help them process this.   :|
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: KOODustin on 15 Dec 2010, 05:32
Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might.  His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering."  Then finds out what Marten said.  More Marten hitting.  Please don't.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 05:38
Well ... not really true, he obviously has harddrive limits.

And a link to the cloud...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 15 Dec 2010, 05:40
Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might.  His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering."  Then finds out what Marten said.  More Marten hitting.  Please don't.

Marten's back to being the strip's Chew Toy. It wouldn't surprise me if all that happened to him and more.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: galarant on 15 Dec 2010, 05:41
You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 15 Dec 2010, 05:41
So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.

Oh boy.... Forum rampage in 3....2....1
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 15 Dec 2010, 05:42
Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might.  His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering."  Then finds out what Marten said.  More Marten hitting.  Please don't.

We got a phrase for that where I come from: hilarity ensues.

Ain't nothin' like a sock to the head to send a guy back to sobriety. 'Course, nobody said them uppercuts didn't come with no hangovers.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 05:45
So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.

Oh boy.... Forum rampage in 3....2....1

OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 05:51

You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).
More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)

There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.

I nominate the term "spineless dickheads", because, well, call things what they are. And we all know that the mental voice that tells us to do creepy passive-aggressive shit is spineless and dickheady, so...yeah.

I don't think Marten's unsalvageable though, and y'all folks may be overreacting just a tad. :P

EDIT: Fucking autocorrect. Fix'd.

You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.

Oh hey look it's This Argument Again! Ha ha WOO!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 05:53
Wow. He finally actually deserved her hitting him.

Don't be too pissed at him, Faye. Dude's in pain. Well, now he's really in pain, but you know what I mean.
Jupp, that is a first.



Did not handle what well? The punching? I have always hated when she punched Marten in earlier strips (NOT play punching, regardless of how she "intended" it and the fact that Marten put up with it--it would regularly leave serious bruises that lasted several days and were apparently painful, let alone the times he has indeed knocked him to the floor), but in this case I'd agree it was self-defense. And probably best for Marten to just end the night there, rather than running the risk of whatever else he might do.

Or did you mean the entire Marten situation? Because while she did not handle the lead-up, what with the sometime-flirting and the occasional taking-advantage of his attraction to her, she handled Marten's confession as well as one could be expected to. No person in the world owes it to another person to be romantically interested in them. Neither do they owe it to them to be in an appropriate state to be romantically receptive. Someone (let's say person X) can be not ready for a relationship when person A asks, but then be ready for a relationship with person B, and while that may not be "fair" that is not something done to person A, but simply the way things are. It has to do with person X, not person A. In other words: it's not about Marten.

Also, the way he brought up "my girlfriend dumped me" definitely sounds very dismissive of the actual value of his relationship with Dora. It makes it sound like he just wanted a girlfriend, any girlfriend, and basically saw Dora as the means of getting "there"--ie, her value to her was just her interchangeable role as "girlfriend" rather than as Dora, and now he's pissed that he's no longer in possession of "girlfriend," which is something he seems to feel entitled to for being a "nice guy" (as far as his words here--not saying he would put it that way if he were sober).  Obviously, the fact that he got to spend over a year in a stable relationship that gave him a lot of pleasure while Faye's situation was far less comfortable isn't entering his drunk mind here.
Puuuh. Good thing I'm apparently not the only one who remembers how awfully hard Faye hits ! Judging from some posts, many people here have completely forgotten about it.

I dont count it as self defense either. Marten is helpless. He would already collapse if she just pushed him a bit.

Instead she starts one of her beatings, which at this point is sadistic.

There is really no such thing as self defense against a helpless person. Thats like beating up a child "self defense". Self defense requires that someone is threatening your life or your health.

And yeah of course everything Marten is b-shit, I dont think anyone here would claim otherwise.



what the hell? I didn't think Marten would ever let that kind of thing happen, but, reading back, he sometimes got kinda really drunk, and didn't handle the situations... the best way (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=514).
I dont think that situation has much to do with this one.



And does this confession mean he just put up a happy face when Faye had her "relationship" with Sven? As far as I remember, he even defended her against Dora, but also mentioned his not being angry had something to do with the hot, hot Dora-sexin'.
Uh, how weird. So you really believe people who just poisoned their brains so large parts dont work any more are "confessing" things ?

I think Marten is stone drunk and unable to think clearly. He's definitely unable to think coherently about what he really wants and his approach to Faye lacks any logic whatsoever.

I consider the happy Marten back with Dora much, much more honest and being himself than the stone drunk and deeply depressed Marten right now.



Eh, I don't think it will be that hard. Faye's honest, she doesn't put up with that kind of behaviour, but she also knows that she owes Marten big time, and that he's in a real bad place now. She'll be there for him as she was for Dora, angry or not.
Agreed. There is no way Faye can possibly be suppressed by Marten. She's a strong woman, always has been, very likely even physically stronger than Marten.



You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.

What if Dora was right about her insecurities?

Then again, this is Marten, and going with the flow of staying with Dora would've been the easier option that he probably would've taken...
Again, I think Marten in his drunk state is too confused to think straight - and copies Doras way of thinking even if he would never do that with his brain fully operational.



I'm highly tempted to just post a youtube link to M. Bison's "Yes! Yes!" video...but I don't think anyone does that sort of thing on these forums.

I'll just say I found this development highly entertaining and, at the same time, reasonable considering his situation and degree of inebriation. Pretty sure he'll regret it when he sobers up and pretty sure Faye will be understanding, cause she's been generally supportive throughout this whole ordeal.

Keep it up, Jeph.
I'm happy you think that. I think this is roughly the way things will develop.



You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).

More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
Marten has been a real nice guy for most of the comic.

The very moment he steps over a border for once, while being extremely drunk and being extremely depressed, you already are willing to throw him into the deepest pits of hell for that !??



I found this episode... not out of character for Marten.
Really ? I was hella surprised by this turn. Thats not the Marten I know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 05:54
OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.

He's joking. It was a veiled reference to the last topic that closed where many new users posted comments that were considered abrasive to the forum's primary clique. You're fine.

Also,

You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.

Not sure where you've been, but a LOT of people had a problem with Faye's use of violence throughout the comic. This seemed pretty reasonable though, considering her issues and Marten being a bit of a dick. Also, if he really minded the light beatings, he probably wouldn't take them with a smile as he has throughout the strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: bhtooefr on 15 Dec 2010, 06:00
There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.

Maybe, rather than capitalizing it ala TV Tropes (yes, I know, that's not where the capitalization came from,) use quotation marks around nice. And, emphasize the quotation marks using air quotes and/or a mocking tone when saying it IRL.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 15 Dec 2010, 06:00
OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.

No! You missunderstand me!
It's not that you posted something that'd make all the users get angry at you, but a few weeks ago, (when Marten and Dora broke up) there was a rampage in this forum, with hundreds, and i mean HUNDREDS of post starting with: "first time poster, i want to say that [.....]" and then someone denunced another guy 'cause he didn't like the opinion, and the thread got locked out.... A real mess.
What i said was merelly a joke refering that situation, i don't think that kind of mess can repeat it self... Right?

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
geez guys! :P
Warning - while you were typing 1 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Hey! Come on! Let me post! :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 06:05
It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??

You're either very much misinterpreting what I said, or quoting the wrong person.
Uh. You said Marten will get drunk now on a regular basis ... why would you think that ?

Also you said he would behave exactly like he does right now ... again, why would you think that ? Plus that would be quite unhealthy for him. Its a running gag of the comic how physically weak Marten is. While Faye is portrayed being "a hell of a puncher", i.e. quite strong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 06:07
OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.

No! You missunderstand me!
It's not that you posted something that'd make all the users get angry at you, but a few weeks ago, (when Marten and Dora broke up) there was a rampage in this forum, with hundreds, and i mean HUNDREDS of post starting with: "first time poster, i want to say that [.....]" and then someone denunced another guy 'cause he didn't like the opinion, and the thread got locked out.... A real mess.
What i said was merelly a joke refering that situation, i don't think that kind of mess can repeat it self... Right?

Hehe, no, I got that there have been a lot of n00bs and forum drama recently.  No problem.

I would not be surprised if there were a lot of comments from new and old posters alike today... this comic made me go "GAH WTF" even more than the Marten/Dora breakup.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 06:07
You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy#Nice_guys.2C_who_aren.27t_actually_nice).

More reading here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml)
Marten has been a real nice guy for most of the comic.

The very moment he steps over a border for once, while being extremely drunk and being extremely depressed, you already are willing to throw him into the deepest pits of hell for that !??

Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 15 Dec 2010, 06:12
Don't worry Odin, Marten's about to be thoroughly punished for his mistakes and issues. Chew Toy, remember? There will be no forgiveness or any other kind of break for him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 15 Dec 2010, 06:17
I can't understand why people are considering Marten to be a jerk and in the wrong. Obviously what he said was dickish, but I mean, come on, for 1817 pages, the guy has had to put up with other people's shit while no one really gave a damn about his own. The crack is in the dam now and it's only a matter of time before the thing completely collapses.

Look at it from his perspective, just over 24 hours beforehand he was in a loving, though slightly bumpy, relationship with an amazing woman (to him), which made the fact that he had a going-nowhere band and a dead end job that much more bearable, in general made him that happier.

Now, what does he have? An ex-girlfriend whose own issues sabotaged the relationship. A best friend, who in all fairness he has bent over backwards to help, from allowing her to move in, to moving to a bigger place, supporting her with her father's suicide and telling her to go with a guy who can be great for her. His other friends include a girl who would make Freud jump with glee, a guy who until recently had a revolving door leading to his bedroom and a lesbian, who, on numerous occassions admitted she would like to sleep with Dora. Oh and we can't forget the douchebag of a robot whose sole purpose seems to be kicking people when they are at their emotional bottom.

For the whole day he has had people telling him to man up, or he'll be alright, not to mention his world famous, dominatrix mother invited herself to town. Only, he doesn't need any of that, mainly because the three people he had spoken to have had next to no experience about meaningful romantic relationships and thus have no idea about what the hell he is going through. His heart has been ripped out and shoved into a blender.

Is it any wonder then that Marten has drunk an entire bottle of bourbon by himself? There are only two other characters in the strip that have done the same, and one of them has just knocked him to the ground.

Yes, Marten has just been dickish, but at the same time, he has every right to be.  The majority of his friends are in relationships and are happy. Even the ones who aren’t in a relationship are alright. He was one of them the day before, and now he has nothing. So if he can’t be happy, why the fuck should they?

The thing about alcohol is that it allows us to air what we really think about the world, it breaks down the walls that we build, even if what we are walling up is the truth. We wall it up because we know that if it would make our world much crappier. We can be content with a lie or a half truth, but when we’re drunk, that doesn’t work, nor should it. Marten has had to put up with more than his fair share of shit from people, most of it from Faye. He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing. Sure, Sven offered to hang out with him….and in the same breath, suggested girls for rebound sex. Tai told him that he is healthier without the caffeine and baked goods, completely missing out on the fact that Marten misses Dora, and then told him to stop being a dick. Hanners gave him back the worry hat, and in doing so, treated him like a kid who stubbed his toe. But what really gets him, is that his best friend, the girl he has helped with all her problems, has fucked off and left him alone while she made out with her new boyfriend. Now that she decided to return home, Faye has been told a few home truths, and doesn’t like it and acted in a way which only confirms it.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 06:18
POW! Bangzoom! RIGHT in the KISSAH!

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 15 Dec 2010, 06:18
Uh. You said Marten will get drunk now on a regular basis ... why would you think that ?

I didn't say he'd get drunk on a regular basis. But he did drink somewhat regularly previously, and clearly, he's using alcohol to help him avoid dealing with everything. So it does stand to reason that this is not the last time he will get drunk before this all gets resolved.

Seriously, if you expect me to clarify everything I post in exactly the manner above, I'll be writing novels. Just try and not interpret everything I say in the worst possible manner, eh? It's only polite.

Quote
Also you said he would behave exactly like he does right now ... again, why would you think that ? Plus that would be quite unhealthy for him. Its a running gag of the comic how physically weak Marten is. While Faye is portrayed being "a hell of a puncher", i.e. quite strong.

I was talking about Faye's being nervous about him acting the same EVEN ONCE.

And seriously, your continued diatribe on Faye's physical superiority is not only missing the point, it's starting to get annoying in it's degree of doing so.

Faye is still somewhat emotionally fragile. She gets embarrassed and creeped out very easily. She reacts by punching, yeah, but that doesn't actually solve the problem, and it certainly doesn't mean it didn't bother her. What Marten did just now is shake up Faye's perception of Marten's friendship. I'm sure what he said hurt her deep down.

And as far as him being drunk, if you can still get up and talk intelligibly, you're responsible for what you say. I've said a number of things I regret, but while I wouldn't have said them sober, I'm not going to blame the 'demon rum' for making me think them up in the first place.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ElvisRevenge on 15 Dec 2010, 06:20
I'm so sad and scared now. I hope Marten apologizes (or forgets) and Faye forgives him.

Man this put a damper on my whole day.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Arresteddevelopmentsnoopy.gif)

EDIT: Also, I think TheEvilDog summarized my feelings about Marten's feelings/drunkeness pretty well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: gathayah on 15 Dec 2010, 06:24
One the one hand, I've always been a believer of the idea that drunk words are sober thoughts. So Marten could very well just be an asshole. On the other hand, Marten could have very well just been spouting nonsense because he's hurt and wants everyone else to hurt like he does. Regardless, what he said was totally out of line. Faye hitting him was definitely impulsive and perhaps not the best of reactions, but she was definitely in the right putting him in his place.

I'm not going to judge Marten based on this just yet. He'll have the chance to redeem himself once he sobers up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 06:24
Boomslang, your post was strongly worded though. You're assuming that a) He'll get drunk much more often and b) He'll sexually harass Faye more often than not when he does so.

I mean...how else would one interpret that? It's a bit of a reach in my opinion. I feel like this strip was meant to show a pretty dramatic occurrence. I'd be genuinely surprised if this became the common state of things, as you're suggesting.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 06:25
And note, if this was the darkest point, as Jeph said, then things should start to improve from here, however slowly - right?

...We can only hope.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: bhtooefr on 15 Dec 2010, 06:36
Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.

The debate over whether he's "nice" or nice is a separate issue, but your version of events doesn't quite match up with what actually happened, at least according to Marten.

Vicky had started talking about moving back to MA, and was obviously not happy with the idea of a long distance relationship.(1)

Eventually, she said that the long distance relationship wouldn't work. Therefore, he decided to move.(2)

She was a little uncomfortable with the idea, and she claimed to feel that she was forcing Marten to give up his life,(3) but according to Marten, things did start off good, until she slowly started avoiding him, and then broke it off.(4)

While she may have wanted to end things all along, she didn't make that clear, when Marten found an idea that would work.

Granted, this is from Marten's point of view, he may be distorting events, but still...

1: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=254
2: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=255
3: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=256
4: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=257
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 06:36
But what really gets him, is that his best friend, the girl he has helped with all her problems, has fucked off and left him alone while she made out with her new boyfriend. Now that she decided to return home, Faye has been told a few home truths, and doesn’t like it and acted in a way which only confirms it.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.

I don't think that's true.  For the past few strips, his friends have been all over, spending time with him, helping him deal, listening to him and comforting him in their own way.  Just about every main character has sided with him in the breakup.  Faye just cut her time with Angus short so she could be there for Marten.  And what Marten was saying to her isn't "truths", it's a warped version of reality in which he deserves romantic companionship as a reward for his attention to women, instead of valuing the friendship on its own terms.  As any woman will tell you, that's not attractive, it's the sure sign of a "Nice Guy".

And nobody "deserves" to act like a dick.  We can be selfish, sure, but lashing out at loved ones and hurting them to salve our own pain is not cool.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 06:43
Where is Faye's bra?

Stuck in the folds of the couch.    - 23 (18.9%)
Suddenly transported onto Marigold.    - 9 (7.4%)
Momo's got it.    - 14 (11.5%)
Momo stole it for Pintsize.    - 15 (12.3%)
Momo stole it for Winslow    - 4 (3.3%)
Yelling Bird has it!    - 11 (9%)
Angus took it and hid it in his Hammerspace Bag.    - 4 (3.3%)
Faye forgot to wear one tonight.    - 7 (5.7%)
Dora has it. (Don't ask.)    - 4 (3.3%)
The Beast of Bourbon has it!    - 8 (6.6%)
Unknown Kleptomaniac rampaging through NoHo!    - 2 (1.6%)
Tai has it.    - 3 (2.5%)
Waffles!    - 18 (14.8%)

Total Voters: 122
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: adrialexi on 15 Dec 2010, 06:46
I think that one of the things that may be confusing about how people are reacting to Marten and Faye's interaction here is our own past experiences. For example, I have been Faye in that basic situation and had a good friend I had known for *10* years do roughly the same thing only I wasn't able to knock him out. It didn't work out well for me because a drunk "Nice Guy" can be a truly bad person. While I don't think Marten is like that, Faye has to have considered it at least subconsciously and it may make her cautious around him even if she appears to have forgiven him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 15 Dec 2010, 06:47
At this point Marten has now hit the nadir of the post-relationship slump (hopefully) and now he gets to start picking himself up and doning what needs to be done - apologizing to the people he's been a dick to, thanking his friends (including Faye, cause it's a good friend that gives you the smack you need, even if you don't know you need it at the time) and getting on with life.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 06:51
Yes, Marten has just been dickish, but at the same time, he has every right to be.  

Nope.

So if he can’t be happy, why the fuck should they?

And oh ho ho ho...certainly not.

He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing.

And then you contradict yourself by providing great examples of people trying to help him. What exactly are they supposed to do, suck his dick? They're being there for him in ways that are well within their character. Also, keep in mind that Faye has already made some effort to repair the ruined relationship (be it friendship or more) by getting Dora the help she needs. At this time, Faye's done the most to help Marten.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.

Absolutely not, as mentioned above. Dealing with this better would show strength of character. While his actions are completely understandable and many of us should be able to sympathize with him...it doesn't make him right in this. Lashing out at your closest friends and being self-destructive? Hard to say that it's ever 'right' or 'deserved' IMO.

Now if you just meant that his actions are understandable, then I withdraw most of my statements.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Irenfrea on 15 Dec 2010, 06:51
QC got back to the basics! (Faye punching Marten)

Now seriously, I bet that he's getting a serious lecture from the Grand Bitch (aka Mrs. Veronica Reed)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 06:52
Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.

Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: IronSoul89 on 15 Dec 2010, 06:54
I honestly think EvilDog brought up some good points here. It's really easy to say that Marten was a dick and in the same situation we'd all do the right thing, but that ain't realistic and it ain't human. The fact of the matter is that Marten has bottled up a lot of shit lately, to add to the list EvilDog started, even when Marten was happy with his girlfriend, he still had to defend his honor from her anxieties, when he had done nothing to warrant suspicion. That gets really insulting after a while.

As for Faye, from his point of view, which is probably half borboun induced, but also half completely sober bitterness, Faye turned him down cuz of her crazy, fucked up past, and it seriously upset him. The only thing that kept that from being worse is that Dora moved in on him, he already liked her, if not quite the way Dora had through the entire story arc, and she helped him move on from Fae by being there for him. Now Dora's dumped him on his ass, largely due to her anxieties. Where did those anxieties come from?

Her crazy, fucked up past.

And Marten's tired of being tossed into the shitter because of things he has never done or never would, but now he has to put up with what Tai does: being surrounded by happy couples while he's alone, dumped on his ass, and seriously hurt because of it. Only there's one really important difference between them. To our current knowledge, Tai has never really had the chance to get involved with someone she had a genuine thing for, so she's never really lost a close relationship. Marten has.

If we count Faye, twice.

So ultimately Marten's dealing not just with being alone, but with a severe sense of loss, and considering Marten hasn't had the best luck in finding a woman (in his only real relationship, Dora came to him), there's gotta be that feeling that there's no end in sight, and as EvlDog mentioned, Marten has very little other compensation in life. At this current stage, neither Marten's emotional life, or practical life, show any signs of improvement, where everywhere else people are soaring up to better things somehow.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jk9000 on 15 Dec 2010, 06:56
You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Torlek on 15 Dec 2010, 07:00
You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.
Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 15 Dec 2010, 07:00
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 07:03
Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.

Eh, it's Faye. She punches people. That's part of her character.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 07:07
Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.

Now wait, Vicky used moving back East as a pretext for breaking up with Marten, and he (naively) called her bluff.  Do you really think that if she'd been straight with him in the first place rather than pretending that an otherwise-good-thing was only ending because of the long-distance, or coming clean about her (in fairness, likely in part to spare Marty's feelings) BS before he moved to Boston that Marty would have still followed her?

Marten's BS usually runs much more towards cluelessness or denial than dickery.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Tuen on 15 Dec 2010, 07:07
Anyone else notice that Faye made an incorrect fist in this comic?  (Correct = thumb curled over knuckles.  Incorrect = in comic #1818.  That'll get your thumb broken if it catches on cloth or anything else).

The interesting thing is that it's not consistent with her previous punches.  
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=88
http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=244
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=305
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=378
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=579

Anyways.  Just something I noticed, since fists and hitting are hobby related for me.  Don't mind the nit-picking :-)

Tai and Dora get A+'s for fist making as well.  :-D
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=511
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=773

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 07:10
I disagree.

Faye's dished out the due retribution, if perhaps to excess, and stopped Marten digging himself any deeper. Far less guilt for Marten to feel at what is already a low point in his life and gratitude that Faye didn't let him make it any worse.

Plus it's more realistic than if everyone is really nice to each other all the time about everything. This isn't an episode of Neighbours after all. From time to time people get a bit punchy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 07:12
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?

 :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 07:14

Some would disagree, Tuen.

"What doesn’t matter much at all is the position of the thumb [so long as it's not clenched inside the fist, obviously]. It’s actually easier to make a proper fist using the fist formation found in such styles as Isshin Ryu, in which the thumb tip is pressed against the fold of the second knuckle of the forefinger. "

Source: http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=510
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 07:15
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

As a newbie, I have to ask, what's wrong with new people coming in to discuss the current events?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 07:16

As mentioned earlier, he's just joking. A veiled reference to the last time we got a large influx of new posters after a dramatic strip which culminated in a thread being locked for widespread dickery.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 15 Dec 2010, 07:19
I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?

 :psyduck:
Yes! And i'm afraid, because we do a very specific, cruent sacrifice, that involves werevolves, Antartica, three midgets, and a pole. And i HATE to wake up the three midgets...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mojo on 15 Dec 2010, 07:21
Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent.  Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 15 Dec 2010, 07:22
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?

 :psyduck:

Please, this takes place in Massachusetts - Cthullu or one of the other Old Ones, maybe.  

The only Mexican we've seen honoured in the strip so far is the great deity known as "Burrito"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 07:25
Yes! And i'm afraid, because we do a very specific, cruent sacrifice, that involves werevolves, Antartica, three midgets, and a pole. And i HATE to wake up the three midgets...

Just in time for Festivus!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 07:27
You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.
Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.

There is such a thing as "proportional response." Shoving his drunk ass back on the couch with a "STFU before I deck you." or the like would have been adequate. Faye's violence is a dramatic conceit for the strip, otherwise she'd have inadvertently killed someone and ended up in jail for manslaughter long ago.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 07:28
Pffffffffft !!!!!!!

Seriously !!!!!!

Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ?

Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.

Faye reached a new level of completely and utterly uncool.

I don't know; I think if I went to grope my best friend after talking to her like a dick while being completely trashed, I'd be disappointed if she DIDN'T give me a shiner as a result.  There are so many other examples of Faye beating down people unwarrantedly - I don't think this is one of them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 07:33
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

I see nothing to justify that.  In any case, if  a problem should arise, it will, if possible, be dealt with individually, not by a blanket slamming of the gates.  We want  people to come and join in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 07:36
Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent.  Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.
On the opposite, I think its a typical case of self-fullfilling prophecy.

Because Dora kept thinking and fearing it to be so, Marten, in his drunken and depressed state, now copies it.

It is however not the way of thinking I'm used from Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 07:37
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?

 :psyduck:

Please, this takes place in Massachusetts - Cthullu or one of the other Old Ones, maybe.  

The only Mexican we've seen honoured in the strip so far is the great deity known as "Burrito"

It's usually Yog-Sothoth. We have spare yerba mate and espresso's cheap enough...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 15 Dec 2010, 07:39
He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing.

And then you contradict yourself by providing great examples of people trying to help him. What exactly are they supposed to do, suck his dick? They're being there for him in ways that are well within their character. Also, keep in mind that Faye has already made some effort to repair the ruined relationship (be it friendship or more) by getting Dora the help she needs. At this time, Faye's done the most to help Marten.

Hanners has never had a romantic relationship because of her anxieties and her OCD. Sven was until recently a womanising cad, who even admitted that he is 28 years old, and has never been in a proper relationship. Since she has been in the comic, Tai has been in at least one polymous relationship, but not a stable, loving relationship as Dora and Marten seemed to be. While they did try to help Marten, none of them really have the experience of what its like to have a relationship that you thought was going crash and burn in a relatively short time. Not to mention that by trying to "help", they're essentially slapping an open wound.

Now consider Dora, the instigator of the break up. First thing in the morning, Faye hugs her, after work, Sven hugs her.  Admittedly, when Faye hugged her, there was a threat of violence, but there was still concern. What happened before Faye left for work? Were there any words of comfort for Marten? Any friendly hug? Nope, just Faye threatening to break Dora’s arm.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like I’ve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesn’t deserve to act like one.


Quote
Absolutely not, as mentioned above. Dealing with this better would show strength of character. While his actions are completely understandable and many of us should be able to sympathize with him...it doesn't make him right in this. Lashing out at your closest friends and being self-destructive? Hard to say that it's ever 'right' or 'deserved' IMO.

The fact is, humans are animals, and if an animal is wounded, you stay away from it, because it will lash out, even if aid or comfort would help it. Right now, Marten is hurting and he needs space, space that is being constantly invaded by other people. It doesn’t matter if a friend’s heart is in the right place, sometimes a person just wants to be left alone and wallow in their own pain and misery, it’s part of the healing process. It’s like a scab, if you keep picking at it, the wound won’t heal. What Marten’s friends are doing right now is grabbing it and tearing it off. So is Marten supposed to let this continue or should he do something about it? Its not about strength of character, but about being human, and what he is doing right now is all too human.
Marten needs his friends, but he also needs them to understand what he is going through and what they are doing right now isn’t helping, it’s hurting him

Quote
Now if you just meant that his actions are understandable, then I withdraw most of my statements.
My points are based on experience. Without going into too much detail, I have been in Marten’s place. I also know that the worse thing to say to someone in that time, especially the day after the break up, is that “they’ll be alright”. They don’t hear that, all a person hears is “It doesn’t matter what you feel, get over it so we don’t have to hear anymore whining.” I’ve done the getting drunk phase, the lashing out at friends phase and the trying to blame someone else phase, so I completely understand Marten’s actions and I’m certain that any relatively normal person would do the exact same if they were in his position
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Dec 2010, 07:40
Puuuh. Good thing I'm apparently not the only one who remembers how awfully hard Faye hits ! Judging from some posts, many people here have completely forgotten about it.

I dont count it as self defense either. Marten is helpless. He would already collapse if she just pushed him a bit.

Instead she starts one of her beatings, which at this point is sadistic.


As you see, I do remember how hard Faye hits. But she does not "start one of her beatings" here. She punches a man who was in the middle of touching her inappropriately, about to kiss her by force. The fact that he is drunk does not negate the harassment.

As a woman who has had to ward off drunk guys multiple times, who, while drunk:

1) tried to pin me against a wall
2) stuck their hand down the back of my skirt to my underwear
3) grabbed me from behind in a club and pressed me to their erections
4) tried to unhook my bra

I strongly disagree that "there's no self defense with a drunk guy." What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 15 Dec 2010, 07:46
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

I see nothing to justify that.  In any case, if  a problem should arise, it will, if possible, be dealt with individually, not by a blanket slamming of the gates.  We want  people to come and join in.

Let's face it, if us newbies start getting all uppity again, some champion wielding the Useless Broom Made Entirely of Dicks will come to beat us all back  :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 07:47
I don't know; I think if I went to grope my best friend after talking to her like a dick while being completely trashed, I'd be disappointed if she DIDN'T give me a shiner as a result.  There are so many other examples of Faye beating down people unwarrantedly - I don't think this is one of them.

Agreed. Ok, Faye resorts to violence far too often, and normally you can't just knock out a guy without harming him seriously (but this is a comic..), so, I'll just interpret it as a hard punch and shoving him away. Which may not be the best reaction, but I'd be crept out too. I'd shove people away, and I'd have difficulties trusting them afterwards.

I strongly disagree that "there's no self defense with a drunk guy." What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?

... you put it way better while I was trying to get my thoughts together (darn), but I want to add that that also applies to harassed guys

Warning - while you were typing A KAZILLION new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

... SO WHAT NOW I'M POSTING ANYWAYS
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Dec 2010, 07:47
Look at it from his perspective, just over 24 hours beforehand he was in a loving, though slightly bumpy,

No. He had been dissatisfied with Dora for a while but too much of a doormat to say anything.

Quote
relationship with an amazing woman (to him),

No. He'd been lying awake nights sighing about the fact that he wasn't happy with Dora.

Quote
which made the fact that he had a going-nowhere band and a dead end job that much more bearable, in general made him that happier.

Maaaayyyybe. But still: lying awake at nights, sighing. And measuring Dora against Faye.

Quote
Now, what does he have? An ex-girlfriend whose own issues sabotaged the relationship.

Not just her issues.  Mostly her issues, but she was partly right about them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 07:49
I strongly disagree that "there's no self defense with a drunk guy." What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?

Yes.  Yes you are.  After all, how else are the Nice Guys going to get any action?

/sarcasm
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ta-kun_1986 on 15 Dec 2010, 07:50
Ok another newbie here. Plz forgive lol.

        After reading all this sexual assault and groping business I had to go back and reread the comic to make sure I didn't miss anything. All I see is Marten saying things that are inappropriate. Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye. Now you could argue that with the angle of his arm he might be going in for a grope, but that'd be speculation as it's out of frame. I'd personally like to give him a little credit. I feel like people are being a bit harsh with their wording. Yes he's being wildly inappropriate, but based on whats shown I'd hardly say he's sexually assaulting Faye. Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Dec 2010, 07:53
One the one hand, I've always been a believer of the idea that drunk words are sober thoughts. So Marten could very well just be an asshole. On the other hand, Marten could have very well just been spouting nonsense because he's hurt and wants everyone else to hurt like he does. Regardless, what he said was totally out of line. Faye hitting him was definitely impulsive and perhaps not the best of reactions, but she was definitely in the right putting him in his place.

I'm not going to judge Marten based on this just yet. He'll have the chance to redeem himself once he sobers up.
You got it right on the second one. The released 2-year-old believes strongly in "misery loves company." Does Marten believe this stuff? On some level, the bawling "it isn't faaaiiirrrr" child inside certinainly does. We all have thoughts like this, and we all suppress them because we know they're not a real evaluation of either our own situation or others. Normally, therefore, we keep them to ouselves. Enter Alk-ee-hol, the Great Liberator. 'Tis why many a folklore holds that strong drink in excess either allows in or releases devils in one's nature.

Having these thoughts makes Marten human, not an asshole. Faye has had similar thoughts—she's touched on them, in a less mean way, to Dora, so she should understand. And no, she didn't hit him for having them. Faye hit Marten for the same reason she (nearly) always his him—what she considered inappropriate touching. Supposedly, it's a nigh-uncontrollable reflex, as I recall. (Or so she's maintained.)

I do hope this's the bottom for Marten, but that all depends on how good he is at feeling sorry for himself. Up 'till now, I'd have said 'not very.' But he's been dragged here to an extent by Dora's condition (like I said, it's contagious), and also because he's hit a wall we've seen him nearing on other fronts for some time.

Like Odin, I gots theories on all this, which, like him, are placed elsewhere. Check into my posts if you want more.

 Naah, didn't think so. S'al'right.



Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 15 Dec 2010, 07:54
Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.

Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.

Quoted for incredible truth. As a man who is an alcoholic, and will be for the rest of his life, I confirm your words, and shout them as 'Truth' to the stars.



I can't fault Faye for her handling of this situation. Marten was blatantly and obviously not responding correctly to a verbal dissuasion of his amorous efforts, and the physical response was justified. The only modifier I can see is the level of physical response, which we do not see. The panels flow equally for a push vs. a punch vs. a strike vs. The Five Fingers of Death.


Has Faye been studying a martial arts style? Has Jeph? That is a very intriguing stance she has there..  

Also, Jeph's art on Faye is zeroing in on one of my ex's, and it's messing with my HEEEEEEEEEADDDDDDDDDD.

 :psyduck:



Quote from: Some First Poster
Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye.

Go for a re-read, watch the hands. Panel two, Marten's hands are clearly visible and they are not grabbing Faye. He may be leaning, but he is not attempting to impose physical control on her.

Panel Three, Marten's left hand has ahold of Faye's shoulder, and his right hand is unaccounted for - conceivably grasping her elbow or forearm, or her left hand.

Control the hand - control the person. Marten, at least at a subconscious level, is attempting to enforce his will upon Faye physically.

OH HAI VOICE OF EXPERIENCE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 07:56
Ok another newbie here. Plz forgive lol.

        After reading all this sexual assault and groping business I had to go back and reread the comic to make sure I didn't miss anything. All I see is Marten saying things that are inappropriate. Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye. Now you could argue that with the angle of his arm he might be going in for a grope, but that'd be speculation as it's out of frame. I'd personally like to give him a little credit. I feel like people are being a bit harsh with their wording. Yes he's being wildly inappropriate, but based on whats shown I'd hardly say he's sexually assaulting Faye. Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.

Actually, to me, the position of his arms and the way he's leaning in do imply that he's going for something a bit more, ah, physical, despite the fact that she's pushing him away (which is why their bodies are further apart in that panel).  The intent is certainly there, based on what he's saying.  Of course, it's a webcomic and YMMV - I suppose we won't know for sure unless something's said outright.  

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: bhtooefr on 15 Dec 2010, 07:57
Wiregeek: From Twitter:

Quote from: @jephjacques
I'm glad someone caught that! RT @AbelUndercity: Faye's stance suggests some muay thai training.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 07:57
ta-kun_1986: Yes, we're a bit harsh, I admit, but harassment doesn't have to be violent, it's harassment the second it's unwanted and you know about it. (In my opinion)

GeoffTheLlama: DARN! FORGOT THEM! THAT MAKES IT OK!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 07:59
Really, I think this is going to be made much smaller an issue in the comic (Or I certainly hope) than we're making it, which is basically going to boil down to:
Martin: Sorry I was such an asshole.
Faye: It's okay, you were drunk off your ass and just had a bad breakup. Sorry I had to knock you out.
Martin: At least it stopped me from making a bigger ass of myself.
*insert joke of the day, potentially involving glowing bourbon or a fleshlight*

Because really, he's depressed and he's drunk, that's kinda the key thing to remember. He's certainly let out a nugget of truth there amongst the bloated sense of self-worth, but surely to God Faye is aware he at least assisted in her ongoing recovery of her issues. And previously being an alcoholic, I'm sure she has plenty experience in speaking nonsense while under the influence. She'll be mature enough to take the words at face value; maybe give them a bit of thought, but overall will move past the comments with fair ease.

As for the extent of the "problem-solver", it's also something we're probably putting too much thought into. I mean, Faye hits people. It's what she does. She's the best at what she does. The degree may have been a bit over-the-top given what we can see, but she's also understandably mad in the heat of the moment with the drunk man's ramblings not exactly flattering her, on top of the whole "forcing a kiss" thing. Sure, a stern shove to the couch would have probably sufficed, but probably would have been out-of-character for her as well.

Heh, this reminds me of the chapter Faye and Dora found out about Steve and Marten's drunken mouth-to-mouth escapades. Maybe Marten just thought it was proper drunk etiquette to match lips with the first pair around.  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 15 Dec 2010, 08:01
Wiregeek: From Twitter:

Quote from: @jephjacques
I'm glad someone caught that! RT @AbelUndercity: Faye's stance suggests some muay thai training.


Rock.  I am not a fighter, but I can recognize some stance when I see it. BRB, watching horrible wuxia wire-fu movies forever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 08:03
What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?

Defend yourselves? Yes.

Needlessly bludgeon someone into unconsciousness? Only in a comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 15 Dec 2010, 08:03
I see nothing to justify that.  In any case, if  a problem should arise, it will, if possible, be dealt with individually, not by a blanket slamming of the gates.  We want  people to come and join in.
He, it was just a joke, didn't mean to you take it seriously..
And of course! it's always nice to people join and have diferent points of views!

It's usually Yog-Sothoth. We have spare yerba mate and espresso's cheap enough...
Ugh, that's when it gets really nasty.... But it got me curious. How do you people (and i mean United Staste of Americans) prepare yerba mate? you put the herbs in a tea bag and it's like a regular tea?
'Cause here we use the "classic" way, with the gourd and silver straw and all that

Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

woa.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 08:04
Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.

Sexual assault doesn't require violence. It's just requires unwanted sexual contact.

Now whether you define the arm round the shoulder a sexual in the context of the strip is difficult call. I'm very narrowly coming down on the side of no, but that may reflect my bias in that I like Marten. However, it really doesn't look like it would take much to cross that boundary so I see Faye's punchiness as understanderble, if not perhaps fully justified.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Smoot on 15 Dec 2010, 08:08
Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
...And that was before I even started! Gah.

Recently-new member, if any "clique" has a problem they can meet me by the bike-racks after school.  :roll:

Anyway- Marten doesn't seem to have much in-between, does he? A lot of people were hoping he'd "show a spine" or what have you, I mean. Judging by this,he really only seems to have two 'gears': Very-Very Passive, and Dickish.

I'm not gonna suggest a storyline should involve him being in therapy (though I probably would if it happened IRL), because everyone did that for Dora, and Faye's in therapy, and Hanners of course- having the entire main cast in therapy just seems odd to me. But, man, learn some sort of behavior between "Okay world, run me over" and "utter jackass". (Fighting the monks doesn't count.)

In other news, Faye decks Marten... and since this was the main (Sorry there's no other word for it) punchline of the strip for a long time, at least it has a context that makes sense this time.  (That is, a lot of strips ended with: Marten says something vaguely offensive to Faye, next panel he's not visible because she Done KOed Him Again.)

Warning - while you were typing 8 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Must type faster.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ta-kun_1986 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:09
Just wanna point out I said assault not harassment, I never said harassment had to be violent. Assault on the other hand by definition is violent. I would agree that he's sexually harassing Faye but harassment can easily be just verbal. All I'm saying taken out of context would you automatically interpret the illustration as he's groping her if the dialogue where something completely different. I guess I just go based on what put in front of me. If Martens hand was shown in the vicinity of breast I'd automatically think groping but all you see is upper arm. I don't know, like I said I just want to give Marten more credit than that I guess.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 08:11
ta-kun_1986...

Sexual Assault requires no violence.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 08:12
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.

I will agree that perhaps his friends are not necessarily helping, but having also been Marten there? Nothing helps. The emotional pain is going to be there if people are there or no, and in my own experience, it can also be really helpful to have things like Hanners bringing you a worry hat or Tai hugging you (even if she does FIND THE NIPPLE), because that's your friends reaching out as best they can.

I think the issue may have to do with that even now Marten is not being honest, and he is most importantly not being honest with Faye, with his moirail, his soulbro, his boon fucking companion; he is putting up the wall of "I am bitter and angry and going to deal with this in a bitter manner and not have stupid feelings". This is not healthy. Sooner or later, you need to cry, Marten, you need to break down bawling, and Faye basically has her arms out, going "I AM HERE FOR YOU". And what does she get? The third degree. It is consummate bullshit. Marten will get his hugs when he cuts the tough guy crap.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:16
Just FYI, forced kissing and inappropriate/unwanted touching can fall under umbrella of sexual assault, supririsng as it sounds.

So anyone referring to this as sexual assault or sexual harrasment isn't completely off the mark. Some states are more strict than others.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ta-kun_1986 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:16
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 08:16
OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?

 :psyduck:

Please, this takes place in Massachusetts - Cthullu or one of the other Old Ones, maybe.  

The only Mexican we've seen honoured in the strip so far is the great deity known as "Burrito"

It's usually Yog-Sothoth. We have spare yerba mate and espresso's cheap enough...

So who's next on the list?

(I'm presuming mods are immune and get pimp-tastic robes for the ceremony.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ysth on 15 Dec 2010, 08:16
throws out one of the douchiest, most pathetic come on lines I can think of.
See the last minute of the last video on http://www.sloshspot.com/blog/12-13-2010/Best-Sexual-Harassment-Training-Videos-387 (http://www.sloshspot.com/blog/12-13-2010/Best-Sexual-Harassment-Training-Videos-387).


Grr:
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:18
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.

Ta-kun, legally, 'Assault' and 'Sexual Assault' are very unique terms with very different definitions. Best not to muddle them. Especially since it's incredibly easy to meet the requirements for Assault than it is Sexual Assault.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Llewellian on 15 Dec 2010, 08:18
I dont know if this has already been posted yet, but i found a Hannelore @ Coffeestore crossover at todays Insane Yeti Squirrel Comic:

http://www.insaneyetisquirrel.com/comic/baby-its-cold-outside
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 08:19
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

We've all had it, we all know it's a busy time.  Perhaps there's not really any need to tell everyone any more.  And actually, if it irritates you, you can turn the warning off in your profile.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 08:20
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.

Do you REALLY want to start an argument about this?

Really?

Seriously?

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 08:20
Ok not to get confrontational but "A: a violent physical or verbal attack" it's the first definition on websters online for assault. Violent is in the definition, I checked before I even wrote the first post so as to avoid this.

 :roll:

Also from Webster's:
Definition of SEXUAL ASSAULT
: illegal sexual contact that usually involves force upon a person without consent or is inflicted upon a person who is incapable of giving consent (as because of age or physical or mental incapacity) or who places the assailant (as a doctor) in a position of trust or authority

Not that it matters, because it really doesn't.  Language doesn't operate strictly on dictionary definitions - there's a little thing called the vernacular to take into account.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 08:21
Just wanna point out I said assault not harassment,

Within context, an arm on the shoulder can constitute sexual assault. You do not have to come into contact with parts of the body that are traditionally considered sexually sensitive.

As someone said, sexual assault really genuinely legally doesn't require a violent physical or verbal attack.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ta-kun_1986 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:22
Also I totally agreed on the harassment. I only pointed out that harassment can be only verbal, not that it couldn't be physical. Either I'm basically arguing semantics now and making myself look bad lol. Either way originally I was just trying point out there wasn't anything overt in the comic itself and I felt like people where all to ready to turn on Marten is all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 08:24
As someone said, sexual assault really genuinely legally doesn't require a violent physical or verbal attack.

Yep. To quote  The National Center For Victims of Crime, (http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32369) "Basically, almost any sexual behavior a person has not consented to that causes that person to feel uncomfortable, frightened or intimidated is included in the sexual assault category."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 08:25
I dont know if this has already been posted yet, but i found a Hannelore @ Coffeestore crossover at todays Insane Yeti Squirrel Comic:

http://www.insaneyetisquirrel.com/comic/baby-its-cold-outside

Oooh, another webcomic for me to catch up on. Thanks. Nice cameo too.

We've all had it, we all know it's a busy time.  Perhaps there's not really any need to tell everyone any more.  And actually, if it irritates you, you can turn the warning off in your profile.

You can? Marvelous. I've been here a since last night and already that bugger was driving me mad. Thanks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 08:26
I dont know if this has already been posted yet, but i found a Hannelore @ Coffeestore crossover at todays Insane Yeti Squirrel Comic:

http://www.insaneyetisquirrel.com/comic/baby-its-cold-outside

That freakout expression is just perfect.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Cammy on 15 Dec 2010, 08:26
Marten, Marten, Marten. You're going to be hating yourself for quite some time.

Seriously, I was cringing while reading that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 08:27
The way I read it marten was joking before he got hit, that last comment anyways.

warning-while you were typing 22 new replies have been posted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sorflakne on 15 Dec 2010, 08:28
Damn, the last couple weeks have been like a throwback to the old days; the weasels, Marten's mom, Faye decking Marten (though this time he deserved it), etc.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: songblade on 15 Dec 2010, 08:29
This isn't bottom - not yet.  Now, if Dora went over to Martin's to apologize and Martin drunkenly says something to irrevocably destroy any hope of them getting back together... then proceeds with his little bitter-fest vs. Faye, Sven and Angus (and everyone else, 'cause hey!) mixed with some depression-induced heavy drinking... and, oh... hmm... oH!  

It's all webcomic zen?  Faye's happiness is going up, so Marten's has to go down to compensate?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 08:33
It's all webcomic zen?  Faye's happiness is going up, so Marten's has to go down to compensate?
Wait, so then who's the Jerry Sei-errr, Even Steven in the equation?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Varian7 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:35
I really hope Faye forgives Marten, it would be a shame if he lost his best friend along with his girlfriend at this point.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 15 Dec 2010, 08:36
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.

My apologies if I wasn't clear. It just seems that Dora seems to be getting a lot of sympathy from the others, while Marten has barely gotten a "How are you feeling?" There is a difference between needing to be left alone and to be given some space. Marten most likely needs to be left alone, and needs to be given some space. But at the same time, his friends should feel concern for Marten, but also know when they aren't helping by being up in his face. Sorry if there was some confusion there.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Cue another 10 pages by the time the next comic is posted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 15 Dec 2010, 08:42
This isn't bottom - not yet.  Now, if Dora went over to Martin's to apologize and Martin drunkenly says something to irrevocably destroy any hope of them getting back together... then proceeds with his little bitter-fest vs. Faye, Sven and Angus (and everyone else, 'cause hey!) mixed with some depression-induced heavy drinking... and, oh... hmm... oH!  

It's all webcomic zen?  Faye's happiness is going up, so Marten's has to go down to compensate?

That's when rocks fall and everyone dies.

Or it was all a dreeeeeeeeaaaaam...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 08:45
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 08:46
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.

My apologies if I wasn't clear. It just seems that Dora seems to be getting a lot of sympathy from the others, while Marten has barely gotten a "How are you feeling?"

That's... not true at all.  Hanners bringing the worry hat and Hanners drinking on that filthy couch.  Marten's mom flying in.  Faye helping Marten process the ridiculousness of Dora's paranoia, raging out a bit, and then accepting Marten's point of view to stay calm.  Tai hugging Marten.  Faye coming home early to make sure Marten's OK.  

Clearly, this sucks for everyone in their social circle, and so far, Hanners is kind of still a friend to both, Faye is/was still closer to Marten, Tai is definitely closer to Marten, and Sven of course is on Dora's side, but still nice to Marten (in his horribly unhelpful way.)  I don't think Dora is getting all the sympathy while Marten is suffering alone AT ALL.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ravine33 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:48
All of this happening... just... so... sad. :(

As for the debate over Marten and Faye's behavior, I don't really see it as a huge deal. I mean, he said some things he shouldn't have while drunk and she punched him. Apologies are in order and I think sufficient considering the situation. I mean, seriously, if a guy friend of mine made a move on me while drunk, I'd probably punch him too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 08:57
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

There is a part of me that kind of hopes this happens, if only for the massive drama bomb fallout that would happen after.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jk9000 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:59
Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.

I don't buy that. A drunk dude moving in for a kiss you don't want is licence to shove him off, not punch him hard enough to knock him over and leave him sprawled on the ground with cartoon stars of unconsciousness floating above him.

Eh, it's Faye. She punches people. That's part of her character.

Didn't say it was out of character! Just a shitty thing to do. Apologies are warranted on both sides, here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cmdrfalafel on 15 Dec 2010, 09:03
Re: how sad this is

Same here - this was a heartbreaking strip to read. For me, even more so than the breakup. I'm having trouble speculating about the ramifications in future strips because I can't quite figure out how seriously this will be treated. I think it's because today defied by expectations for QC so much (not in a bad way... just in a... um, defying way).

(back to lurk-and-continued-observations)

(oh, hi, this is a bummer of a first post ever here)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 15 Dec 2010, 09:03
Quote
A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 09:05
Quote
A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.

Marten dies, comic lives on. I could totally see it happening and becoming a much better comic because of it (Angus replaces Marten!).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07
That's... not true at all.  Hanners bringing the worry hat and Hanners drinking on that filthy couch.  Marten's mom flying in.  Faye helping Marten process the ridiculousness of Dora's paranoia, raging out a bit, and then accepting Marten's point of view to stay calm.  Tai hugging Marten.  Faye coming home early to make sure Marten's OK.  

Clearly, this sucks for everyone in their social circle, and so far, Hanners is kind of still a friend to both, Faye is/was still closer to Marten, Tai is definitely closer to Marten, and Sven of course is on Dora's side, but still nice to Marten (in his horribly unhelpful way.)  I don't think Dora is getting all the sympathy while Marten is suffering alone AT ALL.

But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting. Hanners gave Marten his worry hat back but still treated him like a child, admittedly, because of they way Marten explained about how the worry hat worked, and Hanners has slept on that couch on at least two occasions, sitting on it is alright after a scalding shower. Tai just thinks that Marten is missing free coffee and baked goods, and even insulted him before giving him a hug (which is negated but the bad attempt at a nipple joke). Sven? Well, Sven acted like Sven. Veronica invited herself even despite Marten's protests.

As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway). Look at when Sven slept with Gina Riversmith. Marten went home and comforted Faye, put an arm around her. Now that Dora and Marten have broken up, Faye has threatened violence, then again, there probably isn't a day where the resident southern belle hasn't threatened someone with violence. But she never asked if he was ok. As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

I don't think anyone would think Marten was guilty of any type of sexual assault for bringing his face slightly closer to Faye's and suggesting they should make out.  Nobody was forced into anything and Faye clearly stopped that train of thought before it got to the station.  She said no really forcefully by shoving or punching him away.  She didn't give him a chance to back off; she made sure he wasn't in a position to.  And I think even drunk, if she had said no, Marten would have respected THAT line. If he hadn't, that would have brought him into assault territory.

I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends.  They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.

It's also not sexual harassment - it's definitely an awkward and unwanted drunken advance, but it lacks the foresight and coercive/persistent nature that I think really defines harassment.

People making unwanted advances can be annoying, but there's a difference between feeling like "Argh, I so don't want to deal with this friend drama, can I just be somewhere else right now" and "Holy crap this huge guy will not let go of me and it's late and this street is deserted" or "If I say no to my boss, will I lose my job?"  Can we not trivialize sexual assault by pretending this is anything near that please?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 15 Dec 2010, 09:12
Quote
Can we not trivialize sexual assault by pretending this is anything near that please?


And on that note, I'm fucking done. I'll catch you cool cats thursday evening or friday evening, depending on whether I die on the flight down or not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 09:17

But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting.

I'm not sure where you're getting this, it looks like they have been doing their best.  And your friends don't need to know precisely what you're going through to help you through a rough time.  

Quote
As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway)... But she never asked if he was ok.
Well, Angus is her boyfriend. She's not abandoning Marten.  She lives with him and she's been there, although giving him space.  Which he sort of indicated he needed by shutting the door after he came home from the breakup.

Quote
As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1806 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1806) "Well?  Is it helping?"
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1810 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1810) "Yeah, I'm OK" (Clearly answering his mom's question "Are you OK?")
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1816 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1816) "Are you going to be all right?"

I think you are projecting your past experiences with your friends onto Marten a bit.  I think they're there, but Marten clearly needs to communicate with them better about his feelings, which he doesn't do much to start with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 15 Dec 2010, 09:40
OK, I've had some time to digest this strip a little, so I'll just make a couple of points.

...not going to go back through however many pages to remember who said what.

Someone said the cast of QC might move through and past this far easier than we're spazzing out discussing it. I think that's probably what will happen. I hope so anyways...

Regarding Faye's use of violence; I was about to jump down her throat for hitting Cosette with a magazine, so you're not likely to find a bigger critic of her violent tendencies than me. In this instance, however, I feel she was completely justified.

That said, I agree with what someone else said - panel 3 could be read as some sort of drunken joke, albeit in poor taste.

Look at panel 1...that's the "happiest" we've seen Marten since the Porn Argument started, and his best friend just arrived. His response to her comment seems to call back to the witty drunken banter Faye and Marten shared pre #500...

...and then she jumps down his throat about his alcohol use. Talk about a buzz-kill. Yeah, it's not healthy, but fuck...he's a grown man who just got dumped. If he can't get hammered now, then when??

The combination of emotion and alcohol, coupled with basically the complete opposite interaction with Faye from what he was expecting, caused him to then do the exact same thing in return...which was basically be a dick and make a pass.

Do I think he was making some bad drunken joke? No. Do I think he could have been joking? Maybe...but it's doubtful, as others have pointed out how alcohol gets us to be more "truthful" than we would tend to be.

And none of that's to say that Marten wasn't an asshole in panels 2 and especially 3...he was a complete asshole. If it was a joke, it was a terrible one. There was however, precedent, as another poster noted, for those close to him to be kind of glossing over the crap he's been going through. Marten's not one to dwell on that kinda thing from most people, but Faye's his best friend...the last thing he needed was a lecture.

The worst part is that Faye should have known better than to jump on him...she said it was pot/kettle territory, but jeez, Faye, look how you reacted when people called you on your shit when you were drinking. What did you think was going to happen?

She was expecting The Doormat again. It doesn't excuse Marten's actions...but Faye dun goofed.

...and now we get the fallout.

Does this even reach Dora's ears??  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JackFaerie on 15 Dec 2010, 09:45
I don't buy that. A drunk dude moving in for a kiss you don't want is licence to shove him off, not punch him hard enough to knock him over and leave him sprawled on the ground with cartoon stars of unconsciousness floating above him.

A drunk guy putting his arms around me to forcibly draw me in for a kiss I've made CLEAR I don't want deserves whatever my panic-flight response gives him, whether it be a hard punch or a knee to the nuts. Especially since if we're talking about me and not Faye, I don't think I would have the strength or leverage to shove him off easily. (I'm small. Drunk dudes lean on you and are heavy.)

That said, I don't think Faye used excessive force here. I doubt she jackhammered the guy. He was already drunk and unsteady, I'd buy that he went down from a basic "get away from me!" punch.

I also don't think that, even though imo Marten was definitely verging on sexual assault, this is going to leave Faye traumatized or anything. She's just going to be pissed, but understand the extenuating circumstances. (She may also remain pretty seriously pissed for a bit even understanding the extenuating circumstances.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 09:55
We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

I don't think anyone would think Marten was guilty of any type of sexual assault for bringing his face slightly closer to Faye's and suggesting they should make out.  Nobody was forced into anything and Faye clearly stopped that train of thought before it got to the station.  She said no really forcefully by shoving or punching him away.  She didn't give him a chance to back off; she made sure he wasn't in a position to.  And I think even drunk, if she had said no, Marten would have respected THAT line. If he hadn't, that would have brought him into assault territory.

I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends.  They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.

It's also not sexual harassment - it's definitely an awkward and unwanted drunken advance, but it lacks the foresight and coercive/persistent nature that I think really defines harassment.

People making unwanted advances can be annoying, but there's a difference between feeling like "Argh, I so don't want to deal with this friend drama, can I just be somewhere else right now" and "Holy crap this huge guy will not let go of me and it's late and this street is deserted" or "If I say no to my boss, will I lose my job?"  Can we not trivialize sexual assault by pretending this is anything near that please?

It certainly isn't.  Since he had his arm around her, there are misdemeanor charges available in a lot of places with names like "molestation" or "lascivious conduct" that could be brought if somebody wanted to push it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 15 Dec 2010, 09:58
So who's next on the list?

(I'm presuming mods are immune and get pimp-tastic robes for the ceremony.)

Not sure, the mods maintain the lists, wait a minute!

Do you hear that?

The sound of a not-quite human step outside the door.  The feeling that the angles are no longer quite right?

Crap!

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 15 Dec 2010, 10:07
Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.

Nothing girly about it.

Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent.  Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.

Nah, I'd say it's a simpler "I'm drunk, she's hot" situation, although I could be wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 10:08
I don't buy that. A drunk dude moving in for a kiss you don't want is licence to shove him off, not punch him hard enough to knock him over and leave him sprawled on the ground with cartoon stars of unconsciousness floating above him.
...
That said, I don't think Faye used excessive force here. I doubt she jackhammered the guy. He was already drunk and unsteady, I'd buy that he went down from a basic "get away from me!" punch.
...

Well, that depends to a large degree on how you interpret that last panel. Between her words and the stars, I sure took it to mean that she'd KO'd him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Hi-chew on 15 Dec 2010, 10:12
I can't help but wonder if Marten was somewhat reacting to what Dora told him when they broke up. I mean, the reason Dora said she broke up with him was because she was worried he still had feelings for Faye, right? Perhaps in his drunken state he thought he might as well do what Dora obviously expected of him, which is basically act like a jerk and go after Faye.

Personally, I predict that Marten's going to wake up hungover, Faye (or someone Faye told) will explain how he acted while he was drunk, he'll feel terrible, things will be awkward between Faye and him for a while, and then Marten will apologise and be forgiven, although things may not return entirely to normal immediately.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 10:14
Well, that depends to a large degree on how you interpret that last panel. Between her words and the stars, I sure took it to mean that she'd KO'd him.

When Faye punched Raven to the floor, she had stars, but was still conscious - because she said how pretty the stars were.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 10:22
I kinda assumed that Faye's last statement was to be taken as "I knocked you out, so you probably won't remember what you've done when you wake up"...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 10:25
I can't help but wonder if Marten was somewhat reacting to what Dora told him when they broke up. I mean, the reason Dora said she broke up with him was because she was worried he still had feelings for Faye, right? Perhaps in his drunken state he thought he might as well do what Dora obviously expected of him, which is basically act like a jerk and go after Faye.

Oooh, I never considered that maybe, just maybe, Marty might subconsciously blame Faye for the break-up and that's what we're seeing here. 

Keyword there was "subconscious".  Probably should even make it "drunken, liquor-tainted subconscious".

I kinda assumed that Faye's last statement was to be taken as "I knocked you out, so you probably won't remember what you've done when you wake up"...

I took it as a reference to him downing a whole bottle of bourbon.  Used to call that 'erasing the mind' back in the day, myself.  Lord knows she'd have plenty of experience with morning-after-bourbon side-effects.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurite on 15 Dec 2010, 10:29
1) Sorry, can't see that right hand in the third panel. It's kind of angled toward Faye's special area, and dude, NOT OKAY. Drunk friend, even drunk best friend, starts spewing out entitlement garbage about how he "paved the way" for other guys to fuck me then starts with the "gimme a kiss" and wandering hands, that has the potential to be frightening. It's not rape, of course it isn't, but that would be traumatizing (or triggering) for a lot of people; it might even have a long-term impact on my ability to trust that friend, rationally justified or not.

2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

3) This is, however, the point where Faye finds Steven's phone number, gets a MALE friend to babysit Marten ASAP, and heads back over to Angus'. What Marten just did was damn disrespectful as well as a hefty violation of boundaries they'd worked hard to establish. If Faye needs to get away from Marten at least until he sobers back up, she should do it.  From their established relationship, they'll probably apologize to each other in the morning, with Marten acknowledging that Faye kept the situation from getting any worse and Faye acknowledging that punching him in the face was a little harsh, but all the same, she doesn't want to see her friend mess up his life with booze, like she almost did. Jokes will be made about the bourbon monster, I'm sure.

4) Marten got wasted when he knew he was in a dangerous place. He also knew that Faye would probably be home later that night. Look: alcohol doesn't transform you into a strange new person you have no previous acquaintance with, it brings behaviors you are normally able to repress to the surface. You're still responsible for who you are when you are drunk--AT THE VERY LEAST, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING DRUNK IN THE FIRST PLACE. Hanners told him it wasn't a good idea; Faye, who is not being hypocritical as much as speaking from experience, told him it was a terrible idea. (P.S.: sixteen words does not a lecture make.) And it was. A Terrible. Idea. That boy earned himself a shiner!

4) If Dora seems to be getting more support (...I'm not sure she is, but I'm gonna go with it to make this point) ...it's because she's been more receptive. If hesitantly, she accepted Faye's offer for a reference to a therapist. She's talking about what happened openly with her brother. She's not locking doors and numbing her pain with booze. She's working on herself and making necessary changes to her life. Marten will get there eventually, but right now, he's not dealing with his pain in a very mature way. That is going to alienate his friends.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 15 Dec 2010, 10:30
I took it as a reference to him downing a whole bottle of bourbon. 

I would have as well, if Faye's statement hadn't been a muttered response to the sound thrashing she gave him. He didn't pass out- he was soundly walloped out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Smoot on 15 Dec 2010, 10:31
Quote
A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.

Marten dies, comic lives on. I could totally see it happening and becoming a much better comic because of it
Heh. Marten dies, comic barely slows down. People making inappropriate comments and stream-of-consciousness jokes when they find he's not moving. Wisecracking coroners joking bawdily about rigor mortis. People divvying up his record collection and making indie jokes. Yeah, I can kinda see that happening. ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 15 Dec 2010, 10:40
  Who's Faye's gonna lean on now?  She doesn't know Angus well enough yet, and she sure as hell can't tell Dora about this.  Who's left?   

Hanners?

I'm highly tempted to just post a youtube link to M. Bison's "Yes! Yes!" video...but I don't think anyone does that sort of thing on these forums.

go right ahead, i'm still waiting to see Angus go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR44oOYjvOw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR44oOYjvOw) about his relationship with Faye
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 10:48
1) Sorry, can't see that right hand in the third panel. It's kind of angled toward Faye's special area, and dude, NOT OKAY. Drunk friend, even drunk best friend, starts spewing out entitlement garbage about how he "paved the way" for other guys to fuck me then starts with the "gimme a kiss" and wandering hands, that has the potential to be frightening. It's not rape, of course it isn't, but that would be traumatizing (or triggering) for a lot of people; it might even have a long-term impact on my ability to trust that friend, rationally justified or not.

woaw woaw woaw, this is marten we are talking about, theres no way in a million years he is touching her crouch in panel 3.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 10:49
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 10:50
I dunno, Steve is pretty tough too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 15 Dec 2010, 10:51
Ouch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Smoot on 15 Dec 2010, 10:52
She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Agreeing overall with your point here, but am I just misremembering things? Because, my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye> (Justabouteveryoneelse. OnEarth.)->Marten. I mean, we've seen Faye actually scared of Dora at one point, right?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MrCorvin on 15 Dec 2010, 10:55
I don't think Faye is going to tell anyone. I think that this situation is going to be between her and Marten and no one else.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MrCorvin on 15 Dec 2010, 10:57
She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Agreeing overall with your point here, but am I just misremembering things? Because, my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye> (Justabouteveryoneelse. OnEarth.)->Marten. I mean, we've seen Faye actually scared of Dora at one point, right?

Scared and physically tough or two different things.

On that scale of psychological fear,  it would even have Marten's Mom > Everyone else > Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Dec 2010, 10:58
Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.

Nothing girly about it.

Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent.  Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.

Nah, I'd say it's a simpler "I'm drunk, she's hot" situation, although I could be wrong.
Replace 'hot' with 'handy' and I think you've got it. Thank god Hanners left when she did. She really might've accidentally killed him. Or not accidentally, if she had one of her 'moments.'

And anyone else see Faye giving payback for when Marten overdid it ragging her about her drinking? Way back when—pre-Faye and Sven.
Hey, that rhymes…
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 10:58
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move.  I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there.  He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat?  At least that's what might have been going through her head.  Hell, it would have been going through mine.

Also, homicide?  Really?  Really?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 11:00
I agree Geoffthellama, some people are taking this way too far, its like they want the cops called on either of them.  Like when a lawyer makes his client wear bandages and a sling for a harmless scrape.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 11:03
Re: how sad this is

Same here - this was a heartbreaking strip to read. For me, even more so than the breakup. I'm having trouble speculating about the ramifications in future strips because I can't quite figure out how seriously this will be treated. I think it's because today defied by expectations for QC so much (not in a bad way... just in a... um, defying way).

(back to lurk-and-continued-observations)

(oh, hi, this is a bummer of a first post ever here)
Yeah, I agree. I think that this is sad but also reasonable and over due.

I have thought for a long time that Martin was too passive, almost emotionless, about Faye. It was as if he decided, in a purely intellectual sense, he didn't have an issue with her rejecting him, and shoved his emotions about it aside. He did it because he felt it was the nice, reasonable thing to do. So he decided he'd go for Dora. Martin, if anything, doesn't want to be alone. But he was never 100% honest, even with himself, about his feelings about it all-including the fall out from that decision.  It sucks that it takes being utterly inebriated and hurting for him to spit it out. 

Why the hell did Faye put him off and then start sleeping with Swen? Why is she now OK with a relationship with Angus? It's not illogical to think it's because, at least in part, Martin's been a good friend to her and has helped her sort her stuff out. Martin took her at face value, and gave her up because she wasn't up to having a relationship. He attempted to move on, shoving his feelings for her aside and exploring his feelings for Dora.

Then, Faye starts going for other guys as soon as he does.

Yeah, that would make anyone wonder. It comes back to "Why wasn't it me?".  Now he's dumped, and Faye has her new boyfriend. The snark says "I've been used." And I wonder if in some sense he hasn't. 

Now he's been terribly inappropriate-possibly attempting to grope Faye and definitely saying things he shouldn't. This could spin up to losing his "best friend". But I want to know who's gonna stop and give some grace to Marty-the guy that gives it out to everyone else?  And is he going to learn to be himself, and speak up without resentment being the fuel?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Smoot on 15 Dec 2010, 11:07
She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Agreeing overall with your point here, but am I just misremembering things? Because, my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye> (Justabouteveryoneelse. OnEarth.)->Marten. I mean, we've seen Faye actually scared of Dora at one point, right?

Scared and physically tough or two different things.

On that scale of psychological fear,  it would even have Marten's Mom > Everyone else > Marten.

Well... this can only be settled one way: QC Fighting Game, Street Fighter style.
(Of course, we all know Hanners wins by developing a style that ends up being super-precise nerve strikes, so she can touch people as little as possible. ;) )
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 11:11
only if marten gets to use guitar power.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 11:13
Well... this can only be settled one way: QC Fighting Game, Street Fighter style.
(Of course, we all know Hanners wins by developing a style that ends up being super-precise nerve strikes, so she can touch people as little as possible. ;) )

Ooooh, if only that were real and up on Steam...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: adrialexi on 15 Dec 2010, 11:19
Martin's been a good friend to her and has helped her sort her stuff out. Martin took her at face value, and gave her up because she wasn't up to having a relationship. He attempted to move on, shoving his feelings for her aside and exploring his feelings for Dora.

If he did any of those things with the expectation of some sort of "return on investment" pass to get Faye-booty, then he isn't a very good friend.  Friends help each other because they want to help each other, not because there is some quid pro quo situation. Being nice to someone when they are depressed or hurting is not a free pass into their pants and the perception that it somehow should be is why some guys/girls get mean in this kind of situation (not necessarily Marten).

Yeah, that would make anyone wonder. It comes back to "Why wasn't it me?".  Now he's dumped, and Faye has her new boyfriend. The snark says "I've been used." And I wonder if in some sense he hasn't. 

Not used. He freely offered help and compassion to Faye. If he hoped to get something more than friendship in return, it is not her fault for not reciprocating.

I honestly hope that is not the direction that Marten takes. He could use this as a way to work on himself and learn that, even when something hurts, it isn't necessarily all about you - or any about you for that matter. I would hate to think that he is that duplicitous, but if you'd asked me yesterday, I'd have said he wasn't capable of today's comic either.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 11:22
Well... this can only be settled one way: QC Fighting Game, Street Fighter style.
(Of course, we all know Hanners wins by developing a style that ends up being super-precise nerve strikes, so she can touch people as little as possible. ;) )

Well damn. Where can I send funding?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 15 Dec 2010, 11:26
That's... not true at all.  Hanners bringing the worry hat and Hanners drinking on that filthy couch.  Marten's mom flying in.  Faye helping Marten process the ridiculousness of Dora's paranoia, raging out a bit, and then accepting Marten's point of view to stay calm.  Tai hugging Marten.  Faye coming home early to make sure Marten's OK.  

Clearly, this sucks for everyone in their social circle, and so far, Hanners is kind of still a friend to both, Faye is/was still closer to Marten, Tai is definitely closer to Marten, and Sven of course is on Dora's side, but still nice to Marten (in his horribly unhelpful way.)  I don't think Dora is getting all the sympathy while Marten is suffering alone AT ALL.

But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting. Hanners gave Marten his worry hat back but still treated him like a child, admittedly, because of they way Marten explained about how the worry hat worked, and Hanners has slept on that couch on at least two occasions, sitting on it is alright after a scalding shower. Tai just thinks that Marten is missing free coffee and baked goods, and even insulted him before giving him a hug (which is negated but the bad attempt at a nipple joke). Sven? Well, Sven acted like Sven. Veronica invited herself even despite Marten's protests.

As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway). Look at when Sven slept with Gina Riversmith. Marten went home and comforted Faye, put an arm around her. Now that Dora and Marten have broken up, Faye has threatened violence, then again, there probably isn't a day where the resident southern belle hasn't threatened someone with violence. But she never asked if he was ok. As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.

 I agree.

 Faye decided to spend most of the evening with Angus before coming over. That's fine if that's what she wants to do, but her priority is obviously Angus at this point (and that's somewhat understandable considering her past.)

 Showing up to realize Marten is 3-sheets to the wind, you either accept that you're going to get a lot of drunk talk (and blow it off appropriately)

 Or you leave.

 Faye stayed and punched Marten out. Within character? Yes. Cool? No.

Marten's put up with a lot more crap (drunk crap even) and handled it without getting totally pissed at the person (punches or no) If Faye couldn't do that, she should've left and not hit Marten when he's metaphysically down.

 Right now the only two people who've been there for Marten are Sven (in his own way) and Hanners.

 Marten's best friend and family completely blew him off in one way or another (Faye decked him and his mom is coming down despite him not wanting her to)

 Marten is really getting dumped on at the moment.  :|
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 11:32
Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.

Nothing girly about it.


I beg to differ, if you look at the strip again, the punch was very clearly thrown by a woman, ergo girly punching.

Don't make the mistake of imagining that girly punching delivers any less impact, on any level. It differs from manly punching quite a bit but is equally harsh, often more so owing to the usual social conventions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 15 Dec 2010, 11:33
Quote
A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.

And wouldn't that be a pisser over the next hundred comics or so.

Marten dies, comic lives on. I could totally see it happening and becoming a much better comic because of it
Heh. Marten dies, comic barely slows down. People making inappropriate comments and stream-of-consciousness jokes when they find he's not moving. Wisecracking coroners joking bawdily about rigor mortis. People divvying up his record collection and making indie jokes. Yeah, I can kinda see that happening. ;)

I meant that the comic could still exist without Marten in it at all (and this would be the perfect opportunity to get rid of him). Besides, it's already had one character eaten by an Allosaurus with zero reaction from the other characters, so Jeph could totally kill him off and enjoy the viewings he gets from hamming up the post death drama or do a *arbitrary time frame later* fast forward and show the gang getting along just fine some time later and everything back to normal sans Marten if he wanted.

The Audience wouldn't care for very long either, we're very fickle people for the most part when it comes to this stuff (does anyone miss the guy that owned the Linux AnthroPC, for example?).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: maddness on 15 Dec 2010, 11:33
I can't really say too much about Faye punching him because in certain situations I think that you do what you've got to do. Yeah, given their specific situation, the punch was a bit much. If she'd been frightened or felt threatened by him, then I would have said Faye was fully justified in putting him down, but her response seemed to me to be more an angry one than anything else so I think it was a harsher response than was really necessary. I've had drunk buddies cross the line with me and I've had to physically rebuff them, but I've never had to punch any of them to get my point across.

I don't think Faye will be too happy with him for a bit, but I don't think this is going to end their friendship or anything.

Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.

Nothing girly about it.

Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent.  Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.

Nah, I'd say it's a simpler "I'm drunk, she's hot" situation, although I could be wrong.
Replace 'hot' with 'handy' and I think you've got it. Thank god Hanners left when she did. She really might've accidentally killed him. Or not accidentally, if she had one of her 'moments.'

And anyone else see Faye giving payback for when Marten overdid it ragging her about her drinking? Way back when—pre-Faye and Sven.
Hey, that rhymes…

Seems more to me like he's drunk, he's angry, he's hurt and so he lashed out. It was him helping Faye through her guy induced panic that set Dora off. Then Dora tells him she thinks he still wants Faye. Add in whatever buried lingering resentment he's got over her shooting him down and then hooking up with a guy who's got a rep for treating women like crap. Pour some alcohol on that and you've got instant asshole.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 15 Dec 2010, 11:40
Martin's been a good friend to her and has helped her sort her stuff out. Martin took her at face value, and gave her up because she wasn't up to having a relationship. He attempted to move on, shoving his feelings for her aside and exploring his feelings for Dora.

If he did any of those things with the expectation of some sort of "return on investment" pass to get Faye-booty, then he isn't a very good friend.  Friends help each other because they want to help each other, not because there is some quid pro quo situation. Being nice to someone when they are depressed or hurting is not a free pass into their pants and the perception that it somehow should be is why some guys/girls get mean in this kind of situation (not necessarily Marten).

Yeah, that would make anyone wonder. It comes back to "Why wasn't it me?".  Now he's dumped, and Faye has her new boyfriend. The snark says "I've been used." And I wonder if in some sense he hasn't. 

Not used. He freely offered help and compassion to Faye. If he hoped to get something more than friendship in return, it is not her fault for not reciprocating.

I honestly hope that is not the direction that Marten takes. He could use this as a way to work on himself and learn that, even when something hurts, it isn't necessarily all about you - or any about you for that matter. I would hate to think that he is that duplicitous, but if you'd asked me yesterday, I'd have said he wasn't capable of today's comic either.

 He didn't do it to get a free pass.

 But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.

 And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 11:42
I agree Geoffthellama, some people are taking this way too far, its like they want the cops called on either of them.  Like when a lawyer makes his client wear bandages and a sling for a harmless scrape.

COSIGN.  :psyduck:

QC Criminality Roundup:
- Marten doesn't have irreversible brain damage or the need for a full body cast after being shoved aside or punched by Faye.  Or this would be a very different comic starting tomorrow.  Faye does not need to be taken away in cuffs on an assault charge.
- Marten has not touched Faye in any no-no places.  He came on to her in a highly douchey fashion and she was all, "Cuddle my sweet gentle fist."  It's bad in terms of their relationship and boundaries, but Marten is not a sex offender.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 11:43
This looks like a job for Billy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADr866IewMI)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 11:44
Moving away from a disturbing and occaisionally obtuse autopsy, for the current poll I've voted Other. I could wander off on a wild tangent as to what could happen, but I'll leave that to say that while I don't think it'll happen, I'm really rooting for Hannelore meets Mum. I suspect that those voting for hungover apologies to Faye are a little preemptive. They'll happen but not tomorrow.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 11:45
And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.

Actually I think what he's doing is the opposite of rational. Perfectly understandable and emotionally driven but certainly not rational.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurite on 15 Dec 2010, 11:46
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move.  I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there.  He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat?  At least that's what might have been going through her head.  Hell, it would have been going through mine.

Also, homicide?  Really?  Really?

In case we are miscommunicating: Homicide = extreme/NOT justified, is what I meant; a number of posts seem to be saying that even punching him was too extreme.

What you say here is what I'm getting at. None of that was Marten-like behavior; we've seen him drunk before, yeah, but not bitter and aggressive drunk. Even without a crotch grab, the way he was encroaching on her space and the stuff he was slurring at her was abusive, disrespectful, and at risk of putting anyone's safety instincts on red alert.

If you're someone who knows how to protect herself, it's going to be a minute or two before "aww, come on, it's just MARTEN" catches up with GET AWAY FROM ME POW FIST. And, you know, without getting into personal history or experiences I've heard from friends who talked themselves out of their instincts, sometimes "it's just MARTEN" is a thought that would've been better to come second. Faye couldn't know where that was going to stop and she protected herself. So yeah, I'm at least giving her a "I don't know that I would've done that differently." No demonization of Faye here. I appreciate that not everyone agrees with me, and there's little I can say to dissuade them from feeling Faye is totally in the wrong. That's fine. I'll still read you.  :-)

Marten decided to drink like that, fragile indie physique or no. I actually called "Marten will get too drunk, Faye will come home, Marten will make a pass at her, Faye will deck him" as soon as I saw that bottle come out. Did Marten think of that? No. Was Marten thinking about anything other than "I'm gonna get DRUNK?" Kinda doubt it. Actions have consequences. In reality, sometimes way more intense consequences than seem fair, should an act of self-defense sustain more damage than a black eye. This is QC, not reality, so I doubt anyone will end up dead or in prison.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AshiHalfangel on 15 Dec 2010, 11:54
Oh, hey guys...lets just overreact once again over something that was meant to be funny. Marten was being a jerk...whether or not he deserved a punch, I don't know. But he did deserve something. Sometimes a nice smack around is what makes him wake up a bit and realize that life doesn't end with Dora. And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass. If that was the case, then he did deserve it. But I rather not overanalyze this and I'm not trying to be a troll. But Jesus, people...is it so hard to ask to just enjoy the webcomic for what it is?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 11:59
Oh, hey guys...lets just overreact once again over something that was meant to be funny. Marten was being a jerk...whether or not he deserved a punch, I don't know. But he did deserve something. Sometimes a nice smack around is what makes him wake up a bit and realize that life doesn't end with Dora. And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass. If that was the case, then he did deserve it. But I rather not overanalyze this and I'm not trying to be a troll. But Jesus, people...is it so hard to ask to just enjoy the webcomic for what it is?

Taking the comic and blowing it out of all proportion is half the fun here.

Quote
fffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 11:59
2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move.  I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there.  He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat?  At least that's what might have been going through her head.  Hell, it would have been going through mine.

Also, homicide?  Really?  Really?

In case we are miscommunicating: Homicide = extreme/NOT justified, is what I meant; a number of posts seem to be saying that even punching him was too extreme.

Oh, my comment was directed at Laminator X*.  Pretty sure we're in agreement here.

*EDIT TO FIX NAME BECAUSE I FAIL
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 15 Dec 2010, 12:00
And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass.

Agreeing with you on anything else, but seriously, why is anyone just thinking about the worst after admitting that we can not see what his hands were doing? He could have also: held his stomach, searched for something in his pocket, just have his arm there in a weird way because Jeph didn't care for what his arm looks like because it is mostly off panel anyway.


Also sorry for registering and writing. Don't hit me, please.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ross_teneyck on 15 Dec 2010, 12:00
It's a good thing Marten lives in a comic strip.  If he were a real-life dude, downing an entire bottle of hard liquor by himself goes past "This is an unhealthy way of dealing with your problems" to "Seriously, you might die."  Also, being punched hard enough to lose consciousness is a great way to get brain damage.  Luckily for him, he does live in a comic strip, so all of that is nothing more than humorous exaggeration.

Or, given the context, not humorous per se, but for the dr4maz.

Anyway, it seems to me that this indicates that while Dora has issues with her anxieties and insecurities, the particular insecurity re: Marten's feelings for Faye was not completely unfounded.  Which, really, I think they all knew:  he spent months of QC-time wanting her, and you don't just turn that off like a faucet.  But then warning blatant gender-based stereotyping approaching guys in general are often known to lust after most any attractive person-of-an-attracting-gender they know, and most guys manage to remain faithful to their partners anyway; so Marten was presumably sincere in his protestations of being committed to Dora.  That doesn't mean that he doesn't still have feelings for Faye -- as shown here, unfortunately in the form of drunken come-ons.

Anyway, in this particular case, Marten is being an asshole, with only the tenuous excuse of being miserable and drunk, and Faye is being violent, but by the standards of the QC-verse not out of proportion to the offense.  My guess is that in the morning they'll forgive each other the particular offenses, and the main fallout from this will be, "What did Marten's drunken confession indicate about what he's really feeling?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 12:00
my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye

But we've seen Faye punch Dora (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=579), remember; though I guess Dora punched Faye (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=511) harder..
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 15 Dec 2010, 12:03
.....friday begins with marten in the hospital, faye in the waiting room going "what did i do?"


ends with Ms. Reed bursting in going "WTF did you do to my son?"

oh snap :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 12:06
Tomorrow: Roombas!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 15 Dec 2010, 12:06
The Audience wouldn't care for very long either, we're very fickle people for the most part when it comes to this stuff (does anyone miss the guy that owned the Linux AnthroPC, for example?).

we never met the guy who owned neckbeard, we just knew the computer
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 12:08
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 12:09
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 12:13
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.

Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 15 Dec 2010, 12:24
Actually the above arc sounds hilarious in a VERY SICK way.     :-D


ANYWAY...

Today's strip reminds me of an unfortunate incident in my past.   Someone stone cold knocked me out to stop me from making an ass of myself... and it's a good thing she did too.   

*shakes head*   Rather not talk about it but just want to point out that it does happen in Real (not QC) Life.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurite on 15 Dec 2010, 12:26
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.

Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.

I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 15 Dec 2010, 12:27
The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.

Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.

I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!

But she already has the blood sample she needed!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 15 Dec 2010, 12:39
I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!

I was going to say that, but she very specifically shot that option down previously with SCIENCE!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 15 Dec 2010, 12:43
One: Don't really think either character was out of bounds here.

Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder. But then that might also mean that over the comic there's some really screwed up sex lives.

I really, really liked this comic, it gave me some closure. I don't know which exact issue was brought to light, (breakup, UST, Marten's character) but it gave me an answer to an unknown question (42!). A drunken, violent, cryptic answer.

EDIT: misspelled "cryptic"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: shiroihikari on 15 Dec 2010, 12:44
I understand why Marten said what he said but I think Faye totally did the right thing by knocking him the fuck out.  I don't care if it is "just Marten", he's clearly not himself right now, and better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: charybdis on 15 Dec 2010, 12:45
Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.  

Christ on a crutch. I haven't even started.
Waded through most of the shitstorm like an idiot, gave up on page 8, but I had to say this seems fairly realistic.

Marten has just had the drunken realization that his life is and has been falling apart at the seams. He is having what he believes to be a well-deserved wallow in misery because it makes a person feel better in a twisted, weird way.

Coming on to Faye was an extension of this in a couple ways, mostly in the "misery loves company", and the fact that in a way, she's part of the problem.

I have done this. Not triggered by a romantic falling-out, but general "Fuck it, my life is shit."
My best friend's response was a hefty (verbal) punch in the kisser, (Thankfully only verbal. He's built like a bear and could do some serious damage), and it had the effect of snapping me out of it, back into my normal train of thought with the realization of "Okay, this wasn't helping anything. Uhm, thanks for smacking me back to reality? Sorry I was a bitch?"  :psyduck:

I'm wagering it'll have the same effect on Marten. Yes, he was a dick. Maybe Faye was going a bit overboard in "decking" him (I think she just shoved him off and he hit the floor out of alcohol-filled joints before she moved to her muay thai stance in case of further harassment) but it may have been just what the doctor ordered to get him out of a nasty downward spiral. Worked for me  :-D

Warning - while you were reading 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Good Lord.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 12:48
WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tomart on 15 Dec 2010, 12:55
The problem is that what he said was more true than false.  And, not to sound like an apologist, but wouldn't Faye need to apologize for, I dunno, knocking marten out?  I don't know about your circle of friends, but violence is worse than words.

Sorry, but given the state he's in, and the whole background they share, what he said does NOT seem all that out of line to me.   And, assuming she punched him as hard as it looks - AGAIN!!!!! (how many times is it, now? and again WITHOUT much justification* - he's not the kind of guy who would ever do what she's defending against!)  

The "selfish two-year-old that lurks in us all"  is a fair description of Faye's Marten-punching. Go back and look at them all - he never did anything deserving the painful, brutal attacks that left real bruises which he endured the whole time he was infatuated and patiently waiting for her.

* given this level of violence to her docile, muddled best friend, what measure of brutality does she reserve for a potential rapist?  Castration?  No, she just threatened Angus with that, for a trivial offense.  Probably torture, death, hanging, poisoning, drowning, castration, disembowelment, defenestration, AND decapitation.   All at once.  


Edit:  I am sorry for those of you who fear, or have suffered actual assault; my main point is that This is MARTEN Here!  He's the good, decent person at the center of QC, and I don't see him EVER doing the creepy, abusive, violent things that can happen in RL.  Women don't have to protect themselves from Marten Reed. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mustakyy on 15 Dec 2010, 13:04

Taking the comic and blowing it out of all proportion is half the fun here.


Aint this the truth.  :-D

Seriously talking, WTF?? This just keeps getting more and more miserable (and, i admit, SO interesting). I'd never thought Marten would succumb to being that kind of dick, drunk or not. But on the other hand, Fayes reaction was quite extreme. Sure, Marten DID deserve some good ol' smacking for being Creepy & Quite Offensive, but still... KO with one blow (and presumably with some muay thai strike) was kinda steep. (thou i admit that it might have been just a combo-KO from a bourbon & punch, cos as we've seen, Marten aint the guy who could chug down a whole bottle with ease)

For my prediction of the near future, it'll hold apologies from both parties (Marten way more than Faye, but still, I think either of em is happy, what happened..). Im having quite hard time believing that Martens streak of bad luck would transform him to Creepy Scumbag or Faye thinking "fuck this and fuck him". But the dude WILL have quite awful case of hangover (AND bruising, both mental and physical  :-D  :-D ), so i think hijinks will ensue. (or Jeph will shock us with even more depressing storyarc, just to mess with the bearhat legion).


And NO, i DONT think Faye will tell about the nights shenanigans to ANYONE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurite on 15 Dec 2010, 13:04
I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!

I was going to say that, but she very specifically shot that option down previously with SCIENCE!

At least as far as we know... who knows what she keeps in that off-site storage locker of hers...  :evil:

Why is it so fun to talk about Hanners in this way? It is, I mean, it's very fun, but what exactly does that say about my personality?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurite on 15 Dec 2010, 13:12

And NO, i DONT think Faye will tell about the nights shenanigans to ANYONE.

Ehh, I don't think so either, but I'm not going to blame her if she's shaken up and actually does need to talk to someone about her best friend's transformation into Mr. Creepball Hyde. Given her options, her therapist would be the most plausible and responsible, though her boyfriend is most readily available. Kind of hoping we don't go there, because it might make Angus a little less mature about the conversation he and Faye had earlier, potentially make this depressing situation even more depressing. Or hilarious, depending on how you feel about drunken breakup drama.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: sitnspin on 15 Dec 2010, 13:19
As a survivor of more than one sexual assault, I would have reacted just as violently as Faye to a drunken male friend attempting to grab me and force a kiss. Survival instincts. I may or may not forgive him later, taking the booze and emotional state into account, but the fight-or-flight instinctual reaction would be the same.  Marten deserved a physical reaction. Faye's reaction may have been more violent than was necessary when viewed in purely logical hindsight, but when that sort of situation is occurring, the will to survive overrides all of that and expecting her to only apply the minimum necessary amount of force is unfair and unrealistic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 15 Dec 2010, 13:26
Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.

Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."

Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 15 Dec 2010, 13:54
Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.

Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."

Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.

Right.  And Faye judged the situation based on how it looked, since I'm guessing (unless Jeph's really going to give us a plot twist later) that Faye is not psychic and cannot read Marten's mind.  :psyduck:

He grabbed her crotch?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mustakyy on 15 Dec 2010, 13:57

Ehh, I don't think so either, but I'm not going to blame her if she's shaken up and actually does need to talk to someone about her best friend's transformation into Mr. Creepball Hyde. Given her options, her therapist would be the most plausible and responsible, though her boyfriend is most readily available. Kind of hoping we don't go there, because it might make Angus a little less mature about the conversation he and Faye had earlier, potentially make this depressing situation even more depressing. Or hilarious, depending on how you feel about drunken breakup drama.

In the name of Old Ones, dont jinx it. If this gets more depressing, chances of one/multiple characters ending up dead/institutionalized go way up. Somehow, i have a vague memory, that QC used to have some kind of comedic effect, but that could be my lousy memory playing tricks on me.  :-P  (que the stupid "in the good ol' days"-jokes  :-D )

As a survivor of more than one sexual assault, I would have reacted just as violently as Faye to a drunken male friend attempting to grab me and force a kiss. Survival instincts. I may or may not forgive him later, taking the booze and emotional state into account, but the fight-or-flight instinctual reaction would be the same.  Marten deserved a physical reaction. Faye's reaction may have been more violent than was necessary when viewed in purely logical hindsight, but when that sort of situation is occurring, the will to survive overrides all of that and expecting her to only apply the minimum necessary amount of force is unfair and unrealistic.

Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten  :roll:). Dont get me wrong, I think Marten got what was coming to him, because of the Drunken Creep-mode he was in. It just doesent make the situation less sad and crappy.  :-(


Hopefully, we'll see a bit more of positivity (thou my bets would go to the "Even moar sadness and miserable people"-option) in near future. We can always hope.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 15 Dec 2010, 14:02
Yeah, someone said his right arm looks like his hand is going for her crotch.

I say nothing against judging the situation on how it looked for her, and maybe knocking him out really was the best course of action there before he really tried anything funny. But still the fact that he is pictured as really weak and skinny (and drunk which lowers his balance and everything) while she is rather strong leaves a bitter aftertaste there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurite on 15 Dec 2010, 14:06
He grabbed her crotch?

I suggested it might be what's happening out of frame in #3, but that was relying too much on my own conjecture in making the point that Faye had reason to freak out, so I'm redacting it. His hand is nowhere near either of their crotches. If he's reaching for her side to pull her close--even his hand is just hanging there in empty air, everything I need to support her throwing a punch is in-frame. Most of it is words, too.

Actually kind of glad she disabled his advances so quickly and that there is apparently so much room for debate, because the strip it would've taken to convince everyone she was totally within bounds wouldn't have been very QC-like and might have given me nightmares.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 15 Dec 2010, 14:07
Geoffthellama, I enjoy the monocle look much more than the Bill Haverchuck (http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbj7giOeYe1qzm33c.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 15 Dec 2010, 14:18
This looks like a job for Billy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADr866IewMI)

That video is not available in my country (Canada).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Dec 2010, 14:33
WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!

Today's comic was bound to generate a lot of discussion, and it did.  And nearly all of it has been pretty much to the point, thoughtful, often founded in personal experience, etc.  Some "over imaginative" ideas have popped up, but have been let drop, and only a couple of those would have spurred me into moderatorial action if they had been taken further.  I must admit, I had expected a harder day!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 15 Dec 2010, 14:41
WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!

Today's comic was bound to generate a lot of discussion, and it did.  And nearly all of it has been pretty much to the point, thoughtful, often founded in personal experience, etc.  Some "over imaginative" ideas have popped up, but have been let drop, and only a couple of those would have spurred me into moderatorial action if they had been taken further.  I must admit, I had expected a harder day!


If you are really that bummed out I could make a crude remark about Hanners...      :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: CaptainFish on 15 Dec 2010, 14:44
Wow, that stuff seems totally out of character for Marten. I always took his attitude at face value, but it seems like he was repressing some stuff.

I'm gonna go all deadliest warrior on this punch situation.

Faye isn't justified in punching a person she could've just pushed away. You guys are crazy. It just works really well as a way to end the night without him having any responses after.

I dunno if you've ever had a drunk person lean on you, but they put all their weight on your body. You can just quickly take a step and they'll fall flat on their face.

She was probably too close to really deliver a good punch at that range anyway, so she probably had to back up a bit, and then throw it. It should've just been two hands on the chest and push into couch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 14:45
Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

I'm usually not bothered by her shenanigans. They're like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown or Wile E Cyote getting hit by an anvil. If the perspective had followed Angus when she threw him clear across the bar, I'd fully have expected to see him with his tongue hanging out and little canaries circling his head rather than crumpled in a pile of broken bones and crying for an ambulance. That's fine, it's a comic.

Something about the seriousness of this situation though, kept it from feeling like cartoon bonks to me.  It seemed like violence.

Quote
Oh, my comment was directed at Laminator X*.  Pretty sure we're in agreement here.

*EDIT TO FIX NAME BECAUSE I FAIL

I appreciate the effort.  My real name is even longer.  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Pole on 15 Dec 2010, 14:53
Don't you dare speak ill of precious Hanners. That being said I'm also sorry for fouling your forums with my newbish ways but I must say Martin is imploding between the bourbon and the snide/jerky/assholeish remarks in a way I wish I hadn't seen. Those of you who think he's at the bottom, the lowest of the low, may be holding onto hope. I can see it getting much worse as you can see a hand still up, so therefore he is still conscious. Either way I'm seeing a serious injury, alcohol poisoning/ concussion(from the fall not so much the punch) or a completely different Martin if hes still conscious and stands up for more.  :psyduck: just stay down Martin, stay down  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Heliphyneau on 15 Dec 2010, 14:58
Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.

Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.

Well phrased.  Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.

Hopefully Pintsize really is in the freezer, because if he's up to any shenanigans, he'll be in worse shape than Marten by morning.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 15:01
Hm, now I've had time to think about the comic (and having read some of the great comments), it occurred to me that a lot of QC characters seem to share a world view where a (hetero) girl/boy friendship is always about getting in each other's pants.

Faye expresses this, after the talk (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
Dora expressed this, more than once, about Marten and Faye, before she got together with Marten and afterwards. (Especially with her it always seemed to be about this)

And now Marten, too? (Yes, I know, drunken logic and all. But there has to be SOME reason why he blurted this out.)

Man, and all this Marten Drama reminds me of how Faye used to drink too much. Her complaints were essentially the same: I get fixed up and try and everything and the only ones benefiting from it are Marten and Dora!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Hi-chew on 15 Dec 2010, 15:06
Okay, this doesn't exactly fit in with the context of the current discussion, but I'm surprised at the accuracy in Faye's Muay Thai stance. Her hips are forward, her spine is back and just a bit curved, and her hands are in exactly the right position for an enemy who is farther away. The only difference(and it's also possible that the school where I learned is just a bit different) is that her elbows are out a bit too wide- usually we keep our elbows in close to protect our ribs from rib shots, and we keep our hands close to protect the head from head shots. I guess it's not exactly important when your opponent's a drunk indie-rock boy who's knocked out on the floor, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JudgmentMcGodly on 15 Dec 2010, 15:13
Poor Martin just can't catch a break, can he?
He tries to vent at work and gets told to shut up.
His mom's coming soon despite him clearly not wanting it, thereby raising stress and tension levels.
He tries to vent at Faye when she gets back, but she won't have any of it. (Understandable as he's attacking/insulting her).
And for that, getting knocked the fuck out is "what's coming to him"?
Seriously?
Dude just needs to be left alone for a while.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: DJRubberducky on 15 Dec 2010, 15:15
He didn't do it to get a free pass.

 But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.

 And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.

And Faye of all people should understand that feeling (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=984).

I suspect this will blow over fairly quickly, though I must confess I will squeal delightedly if she also calls back to the moment I referenced.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: DJRubberducky on 15 Dec 2010, 15:24
Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten  :roll:).

Oddly enough, it was just this past Saturday when I was talking to a friend of mine about how I fully expect that I would get in trouble for "overdoing it" if I ever needed to defend myself (so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).  My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt.  (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: el_loco_avs on 15 Dec 2010, 15:27
Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten  :roll:).

Oddly enough, it was just this past Saturday when I was talking to a friend of mine about how I fully expect that I would get in trouble for "overdoing it" if I ever needed to defend myself (so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).  My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt.  (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)

Heh. Excessively violent with judo.

Although you could break limbs yeah.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 15 Dec 2010, 15:30
I suspect the sock to the jaw will be just the proverbial kick in the pants that Marten needs at this point.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Ms. Vance shows up though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: O8h7w on 15 Dec 2010, 16:21
I read through most of that - weird of me. Well, there was no dick-brooms present in the discussion, and I truly missed them. But sure, they would have added to the length of the discussion as well... it's a two-sided weapon, it is.

And after all, it was a few people who got some of it right (according to me), I'll sum up the pieces:



Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.

I'll add that line to my sig, if that's ok with the author...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 16:27
(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood). 

Not just fallacy - outright lie.

Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.

I thought the point of judo was to let the other person do the work for you, so really, wouldn't they only be hurting themselves?   :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: lunakitten on 15 Dec 2010, 16:42
(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood). 

Not just fallacy - outright lie.

Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.

I'm gonna second that, being both a fat girl and a survivor of sexual assault. Please learn how to defend yourself. It might save your life.

And I know there's a lot of discussion about how appropriate Faye's reaction was- but I'll tell you that I see it as very appropriate.  Not only would this have pissed her off, it must have HURT. Here is her friend, someone she trusted, and he's treating her just as she's always stated she would not want to nor allow herself to be treated. I can also see her forgiving him, but it's going to be a long time before she really trusts him again, if ever. And it's not like she was the most trusting of people to begin with. I see this leading to a trip to her therapist, at least.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 16:44
EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.

My apologies if I wasn't clear. It just seems that Dora seems to be getting a lot of sympathy from the others, while Marten has barely gotten a "How are you feeling?" There is a difference between needing to be left alone and to be given some space. Marten most likely needs to be left alone, and needs to be given some space. But at the same time, his friends should feel concern for Marten, but also know when they aren't helping by being up in his face. Sorry if there was some confusion there.


...Well, thank you for the polite response, but I'm left to wonder if you read the rest of my post?  :psyduck: It was meant to call to fallacies in the argument you're making as much as it was to ask for clarity, or in other words what you want is to see people worrying about Marten but not interacting with him. Which seems...odd, to me.

But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting.

What's even more odd is that you demand it be a certain kind of concern; if it's an inappropriate sort of concern, they are going about it wrong?  :psyduck:


Hanners gave Marten his worry hat back but still treated him like a child, admittedly, because of they way Marten explained about how the worry hat worked, and Hanners has slept on that couch on at least two occasions, sitting on it is alright after a scalding shower. Tai just thinks that Marten is missing free coffee and baked goods, and even insulted him before giving him a hug (which is negated but the bad attempt at a nipple joke). Sven? Well, Sven acted like Sven. Veronica invited herself even despite Marten's protests.

Let's deal with this case-by-case:

-Hanners is not treating Marten like a child. She is being worried and fussy over her good friend who's helped her with her anxieties. Hannelore, out of anyone, is the most upset and the most honest about her feelings, out of the whole circle--it's just circumstance that dictated she be around Dora rather than Marten when she was bawling her eyes out because both of them were sad. And her worry about his alcohol-medicating was pretty clearly justified. If one of my friends got a fifth of Hobo and declared his intent to drown his sorrows, I would probably say something along the lines of "that's not a good idea" too.

-Tai gave him a hug and honest comfort when his psyche cracked a little, and other than that, she's not a good enough friend to do much more. I mean, she tried to help him see the lighter side of his bitching, but he wanted to sink himself deeper into Bitter Jerkass Pond, and then lashed out at her in a dickish manner, and he still got a hug.

-Veronica is his Mom, for fuck's sake. I...I don't know what else to stay about that. Of course she's coming out, if only to bring him cookies, hug him tight, and tell him that that girl wasn't good enough for her boy anyhow, it's her loss, there there there. If you have a mother with whom relations are not completely dysfunctional, this should be familiar.

-Sven is....is Sven. Blood's thicker than water, and that he reached out at all made me think well of the guy, because it's hard to be nice to the dude that's making your sister cry.

As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway). Look at when Sven slept with Gina Riversmith. Marten went home and comforted Faye, put an arm around her. Now that Dora and Marten have broken up, Faye has threatened violence, then again, there probably isn't a day where the resident southern belle hasn't threatened someone with violence. But she never asked if he was ok. As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.

This is, as I have said over and over, Faye. She knows he's not all right. That's the reason she wanted to murder Dora--did you think that was to satisfy her sense of honor? No. She knows that he's hurting, but he essentially has told her, like he's told everyone else, that he'll be fine, he can deal with this on his own by moping and sighing and being a general dickface. I think she always intended to come home and give the stupid boy a hug and let him cry, but what has he done? He drank an entire bottle of alcohol, which--and I will wield this particular dickbroom with wild gesticulations and frothing rage until people get it--does not make you truthful, it is a brain poison, it makes you STUPID. And then he acted stupidly and like a fucking jackass towards the one person currently in NoHo who deserves his trust and his absolute honesty.

The problem is not with his friends, the problem is that Marten is not dealing in a healthy manner. If Jeph does not intend to go deeper into Misery Town, I am sure he will get back on his feet, but unfortunately, at the moment he is inviting life to dump on him.

This goes for everyone else on the "poor Marten, give him a break" train.

....

Not even going to touch the argument about the definition of sexual assault, and as for this umpteenth "FAYE IS SO VIOLENT OMG" train of thought, please go TVTropes the definition of "tsundere", recognize the violence is absolutely positively overstated for comedy, and recite the MST3K mantra about a billion times.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 15 Dec 2010, 17:01
He didn't do it to get a free pass.

 But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.

 And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.

And Faye of all people should understand that feeling (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=984).

I suspect this will blow over fairly quickly, though I must confess I will squeal delightedly if she also calls back to the moment I referenced.

 Yeah, that's why her decking him *this* time (especially that hard) rubbed me wrong. Not horrifically or anything, just shouldn't have done it is all.

 Actually...hee hee, I could see Marten calling back to that moment later when Faye's getting him ice for his shiner/hangover.  :wink:

 I'm definitely ready to see more sass, snark and humor. It's been a bit down here for a while.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: foolsguinea on 15 Dec 2010, 17:02
OK, I laughed out loud at #1818.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GrievousBodyguard on 15 Dec 2010, 17:22
Faye didn't really react rationally either. It triggered her old habit of punching anyone that gets too near her, be it physically or mentally. Not the long-term thing though, not now. Just a punch, and the matter is settled.

I wouldn't really say Faye didn't react rationally. I mean, I've been around drunk people before. I've been drunk before. If Marten is drunk enough that he's being that much of a dick to her, then there really isn't much she can simply say to him that will get him off it.

And his advance, though most probably in jest, was definitely not something she could handle. And she shouldn't have to handle things like that, because they shouldn't happen. In the moment, I suspect that what was going through Faye's head was:

"This boy is making a physical advance toward me, it's making me feel uncomfortable, and there is no way that I will be able to say something to him that will make him stop."

The only recourse there is to do something physical. Yes, it might have been better for Marten's physical well being if she had simply pushed him away, but Faye's situation kind of had her backed into a corner, in my opinion.

We can only hope that she did not punch Marten in the head, or if she did, that she did not punch him too hard. Though if this is the darkest this arc will get, as Jeph's tweet suggests, I'm sure we won't have to worry about any Marten-concussions any time soon.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: xerada on 15 Dec 2010, 17:33
I don't think we'll see concussions. Faye punched a lot more and way harder (it has to be harder to punch a non-drunk person to the ground) and we never saw anything coming near to the realistic consequences of such beatings. 

I always felt the punches were overdone for comedic effect, otherwise Marten would never have stayed with her or just kicked her out of his apartment. Seriously, that would have been serious abuse, and their relationship could not have developed that way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 17:44
Heh. Excessively violent with judo.

Although you could break limbs yeah.

...Breaking limbs means you're not doing it right.

In Faye's theoretical place, it would have been forearm strike to Marten's chin for me.




...What? I told you guys I'm a JCO...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: rje on 15 Dec 2010, 17:59
It's so hard for me not to read this with my own biases an past experiences clouding my perceptions, cos I have actually been in Faye's position, with a friend who went off on a drunken tirade after a breakup - although the trigger for the (in his case Bacardi 151 Limón) overdose was also a job loss - and said some wrongful yet subtly 'was he always thinking that?' things to me --
and I just laughed my ass off at him. XD;
I just couldn't take a thing he said seriously, and I knew he was talking out of anger/hurt/drunkenness/his ass. I just went 'you are so full of shit man! Now c'mon let's talk about this," so I was honestly surprised at Faye's reaction. (Her first reaction, not her second.)

But then it took me a minute to realize that she's still healing and coming out of her own insecurities - the panic attack after her first date with Angus wasn't that long ago, was it - and so her reaction makes a lot more sense if you realize Marten pretty much hit all her '!!!' fight-or-flight triggers - especially the unwanted physical contact.

(Although personally I kind of don't think he was -actually- going in to kiss her [and certainly not grope her] but I think he was just again saying shit to poke the bear, but that's really personal perception.)

However, I really don't think this is going to ruin their relationship, I have a lot of faith that Faye is smarter than that, and more capable of reading every nuance in this situation. She knows Marten's losing his shit, and she knows why that shit is being lost. In fact I bet she could infer that there's probably (in my opinion at least) a lot more behind this rant than just the breakup, which brings me to my next thought:

I think Marten's next arc is going to be all about him -getting his shit together-. Y'know when I was in my twenties, the intentions I had for my life fell apart - I had to drop out of school, I lost my home, lived in a shitty studio apartment, had a dead-end job that made me want to shoot myself, but -I had a stable relationship-. By fucking god, I had a stable relationship! Which, at the time, was much more stable than everybody else's, even tho their personal lives had prospects and futures mine did not. I HAD A BOYFRIEND, WE LIVED TOGETHER LIKE REAL PEOPLE DO, EVERYTHING WAS OK.  :psyduck:

This, of course, was a terrible lie (even the stable relationship part, in hindsight, lol.) So I really read a lot of that in Marten's life atm - (maybe) the only thing that made him feel like an actual well-adjusted successful adult member of society is gone. I doubt he's thinking about it like that, but I sure bet his subconscious is.

I really hope that what Jeph has in store for him is a lot of effort put into areas of his life that have been awfully neglected for awhile.

Okay I think my ridiculously-long post hit every point I wanted to hit!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Evander on 15 Dec 2010, 18:08
finally
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 15 Dec 2010, 18:30
He drank an entire bottle of alcohol, which--and I will wield this particular dickbroom with wild gesticulations and frothing rage until people get it--does not make you truthful, it is a brain poison, it makes you STUPID.

It's my general experience with alcohol that it turns off the "Hey, wait a minute, that's a STUPID idea" center of your brain.  This leads to ill-advised drunken actions like fights, hookups, and drunk driving.  But when combined with solitude and time, it allows that most hazardous of thought processes - drunk logic.  Sure, alcohol can lead you to honestly express opinions you'd rather have kept hidden, but it also allows you to form opinions that in the absence of alcohol you know are stupid.  And when you're in Marten's position of having just suffered an emotional trauma, and having been left alone to think about that trauma in silence for the last hour or two, and being a generally somewhat reserved, thoughtful guy already - your brain can come up with some pretty crazy ideas.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 18:38
That did happen before with Marten. He made the decision to move cross-country from CA to MA under "drunk logic."

The girls chided him for doing so.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iconoclast on 15 Dec 2010, 18:42
Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.

Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."

Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.

Right.  And Faye judged the situation based on how it looked, since I'm guessing (unless Jeph's really going to give us a plot twist later) that Faye is not psychic and cannot read Marten's mind.  :psyduck:

He grabbed her crotch?

I believe sir, that she is indeed psychic.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=133 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=133)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: TRVA123 on 15 Dec 2010, 18:45
Couple of points:

1. :psyduck:  [edit: I skimmed most of the thread and didn't want to go back for quotes. :( ]

2. I doubt Martin was joking. As they say, "there's truth in the wine". That said, I don't think Marten is still in love with Faye. I think Marten is feeling inadequate and crappy about his life and Faye just served as another reminder of what he wanted and didn't get. He vented, he was a douche about it, he got punched. I doubt Faye is going to call the authorities or tell anyone else in the social circle, although Faye and Marten will probably have a talk about the incident later. (I hope!)

3. Marten needs to learn how to be single. Its not the same as just happening to be single, it's a way of being fulfilled in your own self, your worth and emotional stability are not dependent on someone else. At the moment I don't think Marten is capable of that, and I kind of hope that MartenMom (Who seems like someone with experience in being a secure single person) can come in to town and help Marten see the value of being single.

4. Where are Steve and Hanners? They should be drinking alongside Marten, commiserating and supporting him, hell, that's what they did when Marten and Dora had a fight! http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1103

5. I think it's kinda weird that Faye went on a date w/ Angus while Marten is so down. I can see why she wouldn't want to be drinking, but they could have gone bowling or something, anything where you get to vent anger by throwing things around.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 18:49
One thing to keep in mind is that Marten has been drinking alone while having reason to be depressed for, like, probably hours now since Hanners left.  Meanwhile, Faye has been out making out with Angus.  That set off my 'shouldn't you be with Marten?  He's always been there for you' alarms yesterday and I'm sober and only thought about it for a minute.  Poor guy's super drunk and had a long time to build up resentment.  'Why is Faye with Angus and not here' is a question that could reasonably lead a drunk person to reach the conclusions he has.  Does that excuse his behavior?  No.  But really, Faye made out with Angus the whole night the day after an earth-shattering moment for her best friend.  I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: lunakitten on 15 Dec 2010, 19:09
If Faye had punched Marten because he went off on her verbally- telling her all the things he said and worse, I would see why (and probably agree) people think she was being extreme in her reaction. He grabbed (or made a grab for) her. That's not OK, and she did what she felt she needed to do (or reacted instinctually to threat, but I can't blame her for it). I don't like violence myself, but I  can empathise with the reation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 15 Dec 2010, 19:16
*Carefully picks up a dickbroom*
I've never held one of these before. It isn't going to... well get all over me, is it? Meh...

So for my
100th POST!!!!!
I figure I'd just like to throw two pennies into the "Drunk Marten Confession Hour" hat.

Q. Did Marten really mean what he said to Faye? Does he actually believe all this deep down?
A. No. I really don't think he did. Marten is angry, and bitter, and drunk. As the good Dr. ROFLPWN put so well, Marten is not dealing with his problems well. Can you blame him? This is the second relationship - in a row as far as we know - that Marten has put himself 110% into making a relationship work, and it still failed on him. His go with the flow attitude cracked, and he turned to the booze looking for some small form of comfort. Lying there on that couch he started to think normal drunk thoughts, such as blaming everybody else for your own problems. Hell, if anything he borrowed the idea from Dora, who was initially pissed that Faye hooked up with Sven for basically this exact same reason. Marten didn't mean any of what he said, he was simply drunk and angry and trying to find any possible way to point a finger.

That's all I have to say. Jeph said this is a deep as he's willing to go, so I'm pretty sure we're going to see Veronica showing up shortly to lend Marten a shoulder to cry on.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
One of these days, Warning. One of these days  :police:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 19:16
I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.

Okay, except that 1.) Marten pushed Faye away, insisting he'd be fine and that he'd prefer to be alone, and 2.) Faye is not his mother.  Her life isn't going to come to a screeching halt because her best friend's love life imploded.  She's not going to hover over him like a mother hen after he asked for space and then have him resent her for it.

I think her going out and seeing Angus after was the right thing for her to do.  It gave her a chance to decompress after spending the workday with weepy!Dora and weepy!Hanners (before Hanners left to see Marten), and it gave Marten some of the space he asked for.  I'm sure she expected him to be in a state when she got home, but we've all been there.

In other words, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's fair to pick on Faye for allowing her life to go on despite her adult friend's personal problems, particularly since she's given every indication that she intends to be there for him as much as he needs her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2010, 19:28
By the way, I have not yet (to my knowledge) gotten one of those "Warning" notices.

Maybe it's because of the skin I chose for this forum; maybe it's because of settings; maybe it's just clean living and 40+ WPM typing skillz.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 15 Dec 2010, 19:38
He grabbed (or made a grab for) her. That's not OK, and she did what she felt she needed to do (or reacted instinctually to threat, but I can't blame her for it). I don't like violence myself, but I  can empathise with the reation.

He didn't put his arm around her to make out with her, he put it around her so he wouldn't collapse into a puddle on the floor whilst talking to her.  Ill-advised makeout request came later.  Of course, the physical proximity made his request that much more threatening, leading to the violence - but I still think that a strategic step to the left (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=873) would have worked just as well.


Okay, except that 1.) Marten pushed Faye away, insisting he'd be fine and that he'd prefer to be alone, and 2.) Faye is not his mother.  Her life isn't going to come to a screeching halt because her best friend's love life imploded.  She's not going to hover over him like a mother hen after he asked for space and then have him resent her for it.

In other words, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's fair to pick on Faye for allowing her life to go on despite her adult friend's personal problems, particularly since she's given every indication that she intends to be there for him as much as he needs her.

While I'll agree that Faye is in no way required to help Marten out, your claim that "Marten pushed Faye away" is simply incorrect.  He went to be alone in his room immediately following the breakup, and he asked her not to hold a grudge against Dora.  I don't see where he indicated that he wanted Faye to let him drink his sorrows (and pretty much everything else) away by himself.  Did Faye have the right to prioritize her interests (making out with Angus) over helping out Marten?  Of course.  Was it ultimately the best choice for her to make?  I really don't think so.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 15 Dec 2010, 19:50
Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ? Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.
Drunkenness is not an excuse or a free pass, no matter how often Rugby League players and other louts use it in defence of their actions in court in Australia. Unlike the blindness or disablement you apparently regard as comparable conditions, drunkenness is a choice. People who pour alcohol down their own throats until they lose control of themselves are, in my opinion at least, wholly responsible for what they do while drunk. Drunk guys can be very scary to be around, and are potentially extremely dangerous. I utterly reject the very widespread idea that they are somehow entitled to indulgent treatment.

I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends.  They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.
I would say that they are different only in degree, not in what they are. The drunk guy who thinks he's got a right of feel you up, even after you say no, and the full-on rapist, both are saying "what I want is important and I'm entitled to have it, your feelings don't count". That makes both of them bad people (though we are all bad people to some extent IMHO). The drunk is very much less bad than the rapist, but in the morning, I would still re-evaluate whether I still wanted to be their friend. A lot, for me, would depend on whether they took responsibility for their actions, or tried to cop out with the "I was drunk" excuse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 20:00
I really feel that a lot of people in this topic are equating 'hitting on a girl' with 'rapist'.  As has been pointed out, Marten was leaning on Faye originally so he wouldn't fall down, and just sort of stayed there through the rest of what he said.  I refuse to believe A) that he would go for a grab on Faye, it's an awkwardly drawn angle and B) if he did, that Jeph would make it in any way debatable.  With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment.  That's a drunk dude being drunk.  If that was sexual assault/harassment, what Dora did to Marten when she first kissed him was sexual assault/harassment because she forced it on him as a surprise.  Men would never be allowed to say anything in your world.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ChibiSoma on 15 Dec 2010, 20:05
I think I'm starting to like New Marten. He still got his drunk ass knocked out, but he's venting finally. Bet that one was building up for a loooooong god damn time. Totally all true. Faye spilled her guts and then started making out with every boy that wasn't Marten or Steve. THAT IS A DICK MOVE! You cannot claim it isn't. Eat an umbrella stand's worth of dickbrooms, it is a dick move.

Marten needs to stay like this after he sobers up. By god, the fury that'll come if he and Dora just wind up together after a few simple therapy sessions, though. He needs to be more open, he needs to be honest, and he needs to be single for awhile.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 20:23
Dear Internet,

A few years ago, a friend of mine went through a drawn-out situation at his work that mirrored the situation we see here with Marten and Faye, at least in how the characters are viewed by people on the outside of a given situation.  It has nothing to do with drinking or sex though, so it's not quite as fun, but bear with me anyway.  There's a point on the other side of this.

So my friend was working as a security guard at a fairly major corporate headquarters as a college job.  He's the kind of guy who you'd trust with anything in your life: watching your house while you're on vacation, getting your mail, watching your kids, driving you to the hospital as your aorta tears, and so on.  He's the most trustworthy, responsible person I've ever known.  Anyways, he was on time to his job without fail, always in full, perfectly cleaned and ironed uniform, ready to go, and never got so much as a "Very Good" on a performance review.  The person who would relieve him at midnight, however, was a walking, talking, 175-pound sack of worthless shit.  He'd ROUTINELY be 1-2 hours late for his shift with no warning call, would often show up out of uniform (one time he came in wearing his shirt that had a huge ketchup stain on it, sweatpants, and ONE FLIP-FLOP.)  I swear to God I'm not making any of this up.  

It took this stumblefuck mess of a man being FOUR HOURS LATE to his job on multiple occasions before the bosses gave him so much as a verbal warning, and then after that, no follow-up whatsoever.  In contrast, my friend got caught in traffic ONE TIME, resulting in him being a whopping fifteen minutes late.  For this transgression, he was called into a meeting and threatened with termination, even though it was his first incident and he called ahead to give fair warning.  The reasoning given for the much harsher reaction was that "the 4-12 shift is more important than the 12-8 shift, because you deal directly with the client and your relief doesn't."  

So, to sum up:

1) Punctual, professional, excellent worker is fifteen minutes late one time = job threatened.
2) A completely unprofessional, chronically late, irresponsible jackass is late almost every night = nothing but a "talking-to."

Here's how this relates to the current story: Marten represents my friend: kind, good to the core, never steps on anyone's toes, helps those in need, and so on.  He crosses the line ONCE and others come down on him with the force of God for his transgression.  There is to be no forgiveness, and any metaphorical (or literal) kick to the teeth is "justified."  His colleague is represented by the remainder of the cast: they're all completely messed up in one way or another, and yet nobody gets too upset when they do something wrong, despite it being a common occurrence.  It's brushed off as, "well, that's Faye" or, "well, they're getting better at controlling their rage" or something like that.

Why is that?  Why do the "good guys" get shit on so much harder when they screw up, no matter how rarely it happens?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: gnslngr19 on 15 Dec 2010, 20:28
Personally, I agree full heartedly with Marten's reaction. He should get to be a dick. Not saying it was at the right time, but for once he's finally able to strike back. I mean look at Faye, if not for Marten meeting her, she would have been the same chick from the beginning not even close to being as normal as she is now. She says to him, "I get your upset and your drunk, but you're being a dick." Fact is, despite the fact that he is upset and drunk, he's right about everything he is saying. No matter how ugly or slurred it comes out. He got her out of her shell. He gives and gives, and people take him for granted. But when he needs to take something, he gets slapped away without a single thought otherwise.

I've been in the same boat, not in the same circumstances, but definitely in his position. Should he have acted in this way? No. Should he have gotten this drunk? Of course not. But its how he's doing it. Faye isn't entirely wrong with how she acted, but she ain't completely right if you see my point.

Also, I've done this before. The whole drown your sorrows thing. Truth be told, he's gonna regret it in the morning. I've done so almost every time it's happened to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: gnslngr19 on 15 Dec 2010, 20:31
@Armadillo: Thank you, this actually made my point much better. I've been "Marten" in that situation many times. It sucks and it isn't fair at all. Hopefully Marten can continue this and be able to unleash his fury for once. He's a good person, but now we get to see the dark side.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Arancaytar on 15 Dec 2010, 20:35
Dear Internet, [...]

It's the expectation. Set a standard, and a deviation from it will be noticed. It isn't fair, but it is obvious that being late five minutes for the first time in your life attracts more attention than being an hour late like always. That doesn't excuse the reaction, of course - even if you notice a bad exception more than a bad routine, the former should be dealt with less harshly than the latter.

I haven't followed all ten pages of this topic, so I haven't seen the "force of God" reaction. My view is that his being drunk and acting like a dick is excusable since it is a rare exception, and under exceptional circumstances, but he is still drunk and acting like a dick. For once in all these years, Faye was right to clock him, especially before he had time to embarrass himself even more.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 20:40
even if you notice a bad exception more than a bad routine, the former should be dealt with less harshly than the latter.

Bingo.  This is why I find some of the reactions towards Marten baffling.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 15 Dec 2010, 20:55
<snip>
My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt.  (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)

I knew a guy who was legally required to inform someone of his level of proficiency in I-forget-which-martial-art (I think it may have been Muay Thai) before he could lay a hand on them.  He got laughed at for warning someone once, and then never again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 15 Dec 2010, 20:58
how fucking continuous is this going to get
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 15 Dec 2010, 21:08
Your icon has perfect synergy with your post. Just sayin  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:18
I think I'm starting to like New Marten. He still got his drunk ass knocked out, but he's venting finally. Bet that one was building up for a loooooong god damn time. Totally all true. Faye spilled her guts and then started making out with every boy that wasn't Marten or Steve. THAT IS A DICK MOVE! You cannot claim it isn't. Eat an umbrella stand's worth of dickbrooms, it is a dick move.

The hell?

Funny, I seem to remember Faye repeatedly telling Marten it wasn't going to happen even before The Talk, then during The Talk telling him not to wait for her, and then shortly (almost immediately actually) after The Talk, Marten started dating Dora.  It wasn't until a little while after that that Faye ended up having her thing with Sven, which took her as much by surprise as anyone else. After that blew up in her face, I seem to recall her still having serious misgivings for quite a stretch of time before she agreed to start seeing Angus, and that was pretty stop and go for a while until they got a handle on things.  Of course, through all of this, Marten was still with Dora.

So please, please tell me: at what point did Faye start making out with every boy that wasn't Marten or Steve?  More importantly, at what point did she commit herself solely to Marten once her problems were dealt with?  When the hell did Faye make any sort of promise to Marten at all?

And OF COURSE it was all Marten that helped her work through her problems.  Therapy?  Pfft.  The whole thing with Sven teaching her important life lessons? Pish tosh.  Clearly, it was all Marten's doing.

That was some grade-A slut-shaming and entitlement you had going there, though. After all, everyone knows that every girl is supposed to just pine after the guy who originally declared his feelings for her regardless of his relationship status and never move on.

Dick moves though, right?  Right.  You just stay classy.

ETA:
 With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment. 

Yes.  Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment.  It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 21:28
Dear Internet,

A few years ago, a friend of mine went through a drawn-out situation at his work that mirrored the situation we see here with Marten and Faye, at least in how the characters are viewed by people on the outside of a given situation.  It has nothing to do with drinking or sex though, so it's not quite as fun, but bear with me anyway.  There's a point on the other side of this.

So my friend was working as a security guard at a fairly major corporate headquarters as a college job.  He's the kind of guy who you'd trust with anything in your life: watching your house while you're on vacation, getting your mail, watching your kids, driving you to the hospital as your aorta tears, and so on.  He's the most trustworthy, responsible person I've ever known.  Anyways, he was on time to his job without fail, always in full, perfectly cleaned and ironed uniform, ready to go, and never got so much as a "Very Good" on a performance review.  The person who would relieve him at midnight, however, was a walking, talking, 175-pound sack of worthless shit.  He'd ROUTINELY be 1-2 hours late for his shift with no warning call, would often show up out of uniform (one time he came in wearing his shirt that had a huge ketchup stain on it, sweatpants, and ONE FLIP-FLOP.)  I swear to God I'm not making any of this up.  

It took this stumblefuck mess of a man being FOUR HOURS LATE to his job on multiple occasions before the bosses gave him so much as a verbal warning, and then after that, no follow-up whatsoever.  In contrast, my friend got caught in traffic ONE TIME, resulting in him being a whopping fifteen minutes late.  For this transgression, he was called into a meeting and threatened with termination, even though it was his first incident and he called ahead to give fair warning.  The reasoning given for the much harsher reaction was that "the 4-12 shift is more important than the 12-8 shift, because you deal directly with the client and your relief doesn't."  

So, to sum up:

1) Punctual, professional, excellent worker is fifteen minutes late one time = job threatened.
2) A completely unprofessional, chronically late, irresponsible jackass is late almost every night = nothing but a "talking-to."

Here's how this relates to the current story: Marten represents my friend: kind, good to the core, never steps on anyone's toes, helps those in need, and so on.  He crosses the line ONCE and others come down on him with the force of God for his transgression.  There is to be no forgiveness, and any metaphorical (or literal) kick to the teeth is "justified."  His colleague is represented by the remainder of the cast: they're all completely messed up in one way or another, and yet nobody gets too upset when they do something wrong, despite it being a common occurrence.  It's brushed off as, "well, that's Faye" or, "well, they're getting better at controlling their rage" or something like that.

Why is that?  Why do the "good guys" get shit on so much harder when they screw up, no matter how rarely it happens?

Because competency is its own punishment. And so is kindness.

People may like you for being competent, kind, and a host of other positive qualities....

But liking someone and respecting them are two entirely different things.

Very few people will respect you if you keep setting yourself up to be basically a doormat. Sure they may like you for being so nice and helpful, but way down deep, you are just a convenience to them because you never enforced respect. This is what happens when you are so generous that it becomes appeasement behavior. You send the message that you don't have to be respected. Because gosh darn it, you are such a nice guy no one has to respect you in order for you to be nice!

And then when you have the temerity (translation: self respect) to finally bite back when getting stepped on, or just plain screw up, or in any other way just be plain inconvenient....

They of course react badly. You disturbed their calm, because it wasn't normal expected convenient behavior from you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: sitnspin on 15 Dec 2010, 21:30
I don't get where this whole "Marten has a right to be a dick" thing is coming from.  Is his bad behavior understandable in light of his depression and drunken stupor?  Possibly. But being understandable does not equate being justified.  He was being a shithead. Fay made it abundantly clear she was not interested. HE basically said "You know you want it" and tried to force a kiss on a woman (a friend no less) who made it perfectly clear she wasn't interested. Claiming he had the right to do that jsut because his love life fell apart is BS.  Akima is right, drunk guys scary and being drunk does not excuse shitty behavior. I say this having done shitty things myself while drunk.

That said, I don't think this dooms Marten as a person, but to say he has the right to act like this goes too far in the other direction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Penquin47 on 15 Dec 2010, 21:36
People freak out when the good responsible one fucks up because he's good and responsible.

A perpetual fuckup fucking up?  Yeah, that's Life As We Know It.

Your rock of hope, your "there is competence in the world", your person that makes you proud to know/employ them fucks up?  Yeah.  It's freakout time.

Been there, in all three positions, moved on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 21:38
True enough. He should have stopped the bitter rant well short of even touching her for platonic I-don't-want-to-fall-over.

It would have been a better choice to deliver the same lines while stumbling into his room and slamming the door. Touching her at all while saying what he did sends the wrong message, intended or not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 21:38
I don't think too many people are saying he has a "right" to behave like he did, but instead that his body of work has to be taken into consideration before condemning him to eternal hellfire.  He's hammered out of his mind, depressed to all hell, and his life is a giant ball of stress right now, most of it not self-inflicted.  All of these situations are what we call "extenuating circumstances," and have to be factored in when passing judgment.  Again, not that he has a "right" to behave like a selfish jackass, but seeing as how this is literally the first time we've seen it happen in all the time we've known these characters, I think he can be allowed to slide on this one, with a caveat of "don't let it happen again."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skelepunk on 15 Dec 2010, 21:41
Sort of off topic, but-Why is it that as soon as trouble comes, these characters reach for alcohol? Is this common for 20 somethings? I do know people like this, but they are the exception, not the norm.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:42
Sort of off topic, but-Why is it that as soon as trouble comes, these characters reach for alcohol? Is this common for 20 somethings? I do know people like this, but they are the exception, not the norm.

When I was in my early 20s, it was an easy out for me.  I know I wasn't the only one among my friends.

But yeah, it is kind of weird that they're still doing this, especially in light of all the hullaballoo over Faye's drinking problem earlier on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:43
ETA:
 With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment. 

Yes.  Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment.  It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.

Gotcha.  A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested.  A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police.  If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go!  Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:45
ETA:
With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment.

Yes.  Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment.  It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.

Gotcha.  A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested.  A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police.  If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go!  Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.

I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said.  Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!

ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment.  Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no?  That is.  And it's STILL not rape.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:48
ETA:
With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment.

Yes.  Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment.  It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.

Gotcha.  A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested.  A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police.  If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go!  Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.

I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said.  Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!

ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment.  Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no?  That is.  And it's STILL not rape.

Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes.  My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess.  And reread the comic.  Faye never says no to Martens advance.  She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out.  I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:53
ETA:
With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment.

Yes.  Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment.  It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.

Gotcha.  A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested.  A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police.  If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go!  Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.

I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said.  Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!

ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment.  Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no?  That is.  And it's STILL not rape.

Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes.  My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess.  And reread the comic.  Faye never says no to Martens advance.  She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out.  I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.

Really? Because "You're being a jerk" totally screams "Hey let's get to hot makeouts".  She's also told him no in the past and is currently dating someone.  The word "no" doesn't always have to be used for it to be apparent.

I also didn't say he was forcing himself on her; I said he was being a pushy douche.  (Actually, I don't think I used the word douche, but I definitely said pushy.)  She's physically pushing him away from her and he's STILL asking for something she's made pretty clear both in the past and from her current behavior that she's not interested in.  That?  That's harassment.  He's her friend and I'm sure she'll take the drunkenness into consideration in the morning, but it's still harassment.  I'm sorry if this is a difficult concept for you or if for some reason you're taking this personally, but it is what it is.  Marten was acting like an entitled, pushy dickwad and, by the time Faye decked him, had started harassing her.  It might have been mild to you, but you really can't call it anything but harassment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 15 Dec 2010, 21:55
I really feel that a lot of people in this topic are equating 'hitting on a girl' with 'rapist'.  As has been pointed out, Marten was leaning on Faye originally so he wouldn't fall down, and just sort of stayed there through the rest of what he said.  I refuse to believe A) that he would go for a grab on Faye, it's an awkwardly drawn angle and B) if he did, that Jeph would make it in any way debatable.  With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'.  That isn't sexual assault/harassment.  That's a drunk dude being drunk.  If that was sexual assault/harassment, what Dora did to Marten when she first kissed him was sexual assault/harassment because she forced it on him as a surprise.  Men would never be allowed to say anything in your world.
There is a difference between "hitting on" a girl, and subjecting her to a drunken pawing, even after she's made it clear that it's not welcome. Drunkenness does not give anyone a license to be a dick, or to escape responsibility for their words and actions. Even if Marten was only leaning on Faye for support in Panel 2, he was not in the same position in Panel 3. Faye was pushing him away, and he was no longer leaning any weight on her. A guy doesn't have to go for a "grab" to step over the line, just not stop when he's asked to, and Faye's push away, facial expression, and "you're being a dick" amount to a clear Red Light.

I don't demand that a guy "not say anything" in my world, as you put it, but I do insist that he stop "hitting on" me when I make it clear that his approach is unwelcome.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:57
Skipped the long quote thing because it was getting long.

Marten kind of had Faye with the 'you like jerks though' line, though.  Faye had arguments with Sven and then had sex with him.  She also told Sven on multiple occasions that they'd never have anything happen, but it still did.  Yet Marten being a jerk and being told on previous occasions that it can't happen = NO.  That's absurd.  Marten was wrong, but all makes a kind of sense to the point that I find it hard to condemn the guy.  It's not like he forced anything on her.  He raised the idea and got punched out.  Even if he was going to, Faye reacted prior to the harassment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 22:02
Skipped the long quote thing because it was getting long.

Marten kind of had Faye with the 'you like jerks though' line, though.

No.  No, he didn't.  Even if it were true that Faye liked jerks (which as far as I can tell, the only one who qualifies for that is Sven), that still doesn't excuse his behavior.  It doesn't make her open game for any old jerk that walks into her life because, you know, she likes jerks (which I don't think she does).

Quote from: Razgriz
 Faye had arguments with Sven and then had sex with him.  She also told Sven on multiple occasions that they'd never have anything happen, but it still did.  Yet Marten being a jerk and being told it can't happen = NO.  That's absurd.  Marten was wrong, but all makes a kind of sense to the point that I find it hard to condemn the guy.  It's not like he forced anything on her.  He raised the idea and got punched out.  Even if he was going to, Faye reacted prior to the harassment.

Sven was not her friend.  Sven was not someone she trusted.  Marten is not Sven.  Marten is her best friend.  Marten promised that things could remain platonic - it's there, in one of the linked comics earlier on, shortly after the talk.

Even if none of those things are true, you don't get to drag someone's sexual past up and use it to justify your assholishness in the present.

Seriously, you should get that entitlement complex checked out there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Penquin47 on 15 Dec 2010, 22:08
Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes.  My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess.  And reread the comic.  Faye never says no to Martens advance.  She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out.  I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.

"Okay, I know you're drunk and upset, but you're being a dick."  ::starts pushing him away, defining space::
"Oh yeah?  Thass the kind of guy you're into, right?  So let's make out.  C'mon, gimme a..."

At this point, it is sexual harassment and if Faye DID care to press the issue, she could probably get some money, or Marten forced into counseling, or something.  (All I could find about Massachusetts law involved harassment in the workplace, which this isn't.)  The fact that they're roommates would almost certainly work against her, and if Dora wanted to be vindictive the thing about her dumping Marten because she believed he still wanted Faye could be brought into play.  In this case, Faye is the victim and I think she recognizes the extreme circumstances and that Marten would not normally act like this.  She'll let this drop with a "don't do that again" and/or "how much of what you said last night was you, and how much was the alcohol, and don't fucking lie to me" conversation.  If the victim has no interest in pursuing the crime and has the ability to make that decision (not, y'know, DEAD or something), why waste law enforcement's time with it?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sharp on 15 Dec 2010, 22:11
 
Skipped the long quote thing because it was getting long.

Marten kind of had Faye with the 'you like jerks though' line, though.  Faye had arguments with Sven and then had sex with him.  She also told Sven on multiple occasions that they'd never have anything happen, but it still did.  Yet Marten being a jerk and being told on previous occasions that it can't happen = NO.  That's absurd.  Marten was wrong, but all makes a kind of sense to the point that I find it hard to condemn the guy.  It's not like he forced anything on her.  He raised the idea and got punched out.  Even if he was going to, Faye reacted prior to the harassment.

But by the simple fact that Marten was imlying she "owed him", it does fall under the realm of harassment. I can see where you're coming from though Razgriz; I don't want to be mad at Marten either. And I can say for sure that this will blow over, that while Marten isn't entitled to act like a jerk, the extenuating circumstances and his past history will exonorate him eventually. I'm confident that Faye will chalk this up to the alcohol and the stress and forgive him, and maybe even rib him about it in the future. "Hurr durr, I'm drunk Faye! Let's make out! Hurr Hurr!"

And as for Marten's intentions? I dunno, I kind of like the "self-fulfilling prophecy" theory someone mentioned. (sorry I forget who!) But I can see it being something along the lines of "Making the criminal fit the crime."

But then again, for all we can tell, Marten may have just been trying to be a dick. He's been known to get snarky on occassion and some liquid libation lubricant may have loosened his tongue too much. I do feel for the guy, I do. Many many of us have said things under the influence that seemed fine and rational at the time that turned out to be competely over the line, and now Marten has to deal with said consequences.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 22:14
But then again, for all we can tell, Marten may have just been trying to be a dick. He's been known to get snarky on occassion and some liquid libation lubricant may have loosened his tongue too much. I do feel for the guy, I do. Many many of us have said things under the influence that seemed fine and rational at the time that turned out to be competely over the line, and now Marten has to deal with said consequences.

I could see that.  Lashing out at the first person available that isn't Hannelore (because really, I don't think he could do it to her) when he's tongue's nice and loosened and he's a hurtin' puppy? Makes sense to me.

This is absolutely going to be a flash-in-the-pan, try-it-again-and-i'll-knock-out-your-teeth, but-how-are-you-doing-now-sweetheart? moment.

...Putting dashes between words instead of spaces is tougher than I thought.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 22:15
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'.  I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 22:22
If he did any of those things with the expectation of some sort of "return on investment" pass to get Faye-booty, then he isn't a very good friend.  Friends help each other because they want to help each other, not because there is some quid pro quo situation. Being nice to someone when they are depressed or hurting is not a free pass into their pants and the perception that it somehow should be is why some guys/girls get mean in this kind of situation (not necessarily Marten).

I don't mean to imply he should expect Faye to give him sex- or any other kind of "return on investment". I don't really think he's like that and I wouldn't much like him if he were. I mean instead to point out that the relationships he's in seem fairly one sided. Martin soothes and listens but no one seems to think Martin ever needs it reciprocated. It's fair enough to point out that he owns not fessing up to his feelings. He owns this for the most part and he definitely owns his bad behavior as of this comic.

But I think when the morning comes she should give him some grace. She should talk to him about why the heck he said those things. Maybe explaining why the hell she rejected him only to start promptly banging someone else is in order-if that's something Martin has been carrying around.  In all this talking about her feelings, I don't recall seeing her really expressing much interest in what he's been feeling-which is obviously like someone who needs to understand and has been hurt.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 22:28
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'.  I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.

Seconded.  Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal.  I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing.   There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned.  Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so.  As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes.  However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise.  My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AshiHalfangel on 15 Dec 2010, 22:29
I'm sorry, I might've not made myself clear on my earlier post. I didn't mean to state that Marten had groped Faye because of the fact that Marten's other hand wasn't seen. For all we know, he's picking his ass. I don't know..who knows unless it's stated. But I'm not going to say that it's sexual harrassment. He's drunk...he's heart broken. That doesn't excuse his behavior and while it's very uncharacteristic to act that way, I highly doubt that he would try to force himself on her.

Now if Marten had still gone after her after she had punched him out then I would classify that as harrassment. I know that there is such a thing as verbal sexual harrassment in example at the working field. That's wrong and should a person ever come across such a situation, get help...or a Faye punch could work as well...but not recommended if you want your job..but still effective I'm sure. Marten in my opinion is just in a drunken stupor and feeling sorry for himself and found Faye as the target since it seems that he has a bit of a grudge that he had hidden from her. I think once Faye cools down and Marten regains consciousness and sobers up that a heart to heart is in motion.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 22:38
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'.  I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.

Seconded.  Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal.  I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing.   There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned.  Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so.  As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes.  However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise.  My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?

By the legal definition, yes.

Your intent/motives don't count for shit. Even a 3rd party that doesn't like what they saw can report you. Even if the woman that was the target of your attentions actually liked what you were doing. As long as someone there wasn't happy, whether your intent was malicious or not, you are guilty.

Edit for clarity: And no, I've never been accused or convicted of sexual harassment, so you can't just pass this off as sour grapes. It's just literally how the laws are set up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 22:40
I wonder if Jeph will go darker tonight.

I wonder how long before the thread gets locked if he does.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 22:42
Harassment is not generally a *single* instance of misbehavior, that would be characterized more accurately as a sexual molestation or assault.  Harassment is more accurately described as a series of events or a more pervasive creation of a hostile environment, such as in a work situation, which can involve verbal comments, persistent come on's ect. and don't necessarily have to involve a sexual assault to be actionable.  And yes, you are generally given a chance to hear "NO" in regards to a verbal advance. After that, it's breaching the "harassment" line. No one is a mind reader-someone's level of "unhappiness" is not the meter in that situation. Physical touching, especially depending on where, is an exception. For example, you don't have to say "no" in order have a right to not be fondled or otherwise sexually violated. But just saying "give me a kiss..." is hardly an assault.

His verbal actions alone would not constitute assault or molestation and as this is not a work situation "harassment" wouldn't be the appropriate term. The one more likely to be charged, based on what we can see here, would be Faye, as she hit Martin, when she could have simply left the apartment or sought another option. Since this is a domestic situation, both would likely be taken in for questioning as that is the usual protocol in DV situations these days.  I could be wrong, but I was a DV educator and case worker for several years and have some familiarity with the topic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 22:42
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'.  I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.

Seconded.  Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal.  I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing.   There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned.  Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so.  As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes.  However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise.  My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?

By the legal definition, yes.

Your intent/motives don't count for shit. Even a 3rd party that doesn't like what they saw can report you. Even if the woman that was the target of your attentions actually liked what you were doing. As long as someone there wasn't happy, whether your intent was malicious or not, you are guilty.

Edit for clarity: And no, I've never been accused or convicted of sexual harassment, so you can't just pass this off as sour grapes. It's just literally how the laws are set up.

Well then, that's just fucking stupid.  So if I'm with my wife of almost ten years, and I give her a playful tap on the butt or a quick smooch, and someone across the street doesn't like it, they can report me to the police and I can be cited for sexual harassment?  

Again, fucking stupid.

EDIT: This came across as angrier than it was intended to, and since I'm new I didn't want to give the impression of some crazed loony foaming at the house in my mother's basement.  I'm actually in my own basement. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cesariojpn on 15 Dec 2010, 22:50
I've scanned, and I dunno if I missed it, but how would Veronica's warning to Faye on harming Martin apply to this situation? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 15 Dec 2010, 22:50
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?


Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 22:52
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'.  I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.

Seconded.  Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal.  I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing.   There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned.  Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so.  As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes.  However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise.  My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?

By the legal definition, yes.

Your intent/motives don't count for shit. Even a 3rd party that doesn't like what they saw can report you. Even if the woman that was the target of your attentions actually liked what you were doing. As long as someone there wasn't happy, whether your intent was malicious or not, you are guilty.

Edit for clarity: And no, I've never been accused or convicted of sexual harassment, so you can't just pass this off as sour grapes. It's just literally how the laws are set up.

Well then, that's just fucking stupid.  So if I'm with my wife of almost ten years, and I give her a playful tap on the butt or a quick smooch, and someone across the street doesn't like it, they can report me to the police and I can be cited for sexual harassment?  

Again, fucking stupid.

Quote stream here...

Anyway, you're not violating any law by smooching your wife or smacking her butt in public! This seems like a gross over interpretation of what it means to "harass".  We even have a right to engage in PDA's provided they do not get sexually graphic. In some cities, that just means you wear a non thong bathing suit, at least, while doing it and keep all your junk in side it.  Heck, if someone's "unhappiness" on the street makes the difference then we'd quickly be in a police state.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 22:52
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?




That depends.  Is the person eating at the time?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 15 Dec 2010, 22:55
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?




That depends.  Is the person eating at the time?

is a frosty considered eating or drinking?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 22:56
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?




That depends.  Is the person eating at the time?

is a frosty considered eating or drinking?

Eating at first, drinking twenty minutes later.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 22:57
Harassment is not generally a *single* instance of misbehavior, that would be characterized more accurately as a sexual molestation or assault.  Harassment is more accurately described as a series of events or a more pervasive creation of a hostile environment, such as in a work situation, which can involve verbal comments, persistent come on's ect. and don't necessarily have to involve a sexual assault to be actionable.  And yes, you are generally given a chance to hear "NO" in regards to a verbal advance. After that, it's breaching the "harassment" line. No one is a mind reader-someone's level of "unhappiness" is not the meter in that situation. Physical touching, especially depending on where, is an exception. For example, you don't have to say "no" in order have a right to not be fondled or otherwise sexually violated. But just saying "give me a kiss..." is hardly an assault.

His verbal actions alone would not constitute assault or molestation and as this is not a work situation "harassment" wouldn't be the appropriate term. The one more likely to be charged, based on what we can see here, would be Faye, as she hit Martin, when she could have simply left the apartment or sought another option. Since this is a domestic situation, both would likely be taken in for questioning as that is the usual protocol in DV situations these days.  I could be wrong, but I was a DV educator and case worker for several years and have some familiarity with the topic.

True, harassment law is generally more applicable to employment situations, as it was mainly created to keep scumbags from using access to continued employment/advancement as a form of extortion.

But in those situations, all it takes is one screw up or misinterpretation that in more than a few States to allow an employer to terminate you- and you have little to no recourse other than litigation that will likely go nowhere, and your career is already tainted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 15 Dec 2010, 22:57
Oh my god, the only reason i am still reading this is beecause i don't want to miss something that's actually noteworthy being said!

how fucking continuous is this going to get

I totally agree with this, are you people in middle school? no matter how many times you scream the same exact argument at each other, anyone who is gonna change their mind has either already changed their mind or is in neutral ground and not sure which side they are on so they won't change anyway. (I consider myself a Neutral)

So far we have this list of information:

Pro Faye
1. She has said no in the past and although she didn't expressly say it now her body langage did. so what marten was doing can be construed as harrassment/sexual harrasment.

2. Marten was being a bit of an ass-hat and probably deserved physical removal from Faye, whether she punched him or shoved him we don't know so it is off panel.

3. Marten may or may not have been going for a grope or a kiss, but with everything off frame, and with the STILL pictures we can't really tell. But if he was physical action on Faye's part is easily justified (be it a punch or a shove).

4. And just for the record, if Marten was implying that Faye owed him anything she didn't, she had made it perfectly clear in the past that they would never be more than friends and he had agreed to it. By most people's standards that discussion ended there and anything added is far after/off of the fact.


Pro Marten
1. Right now his life is a pile of shit, he's got a dead end job, he's not doing what he loves (music), and his girlfriend (while lately a hassle and a bit paranoid) dumped him because he finally manned up and stood up for himself.

2. He is incredibly drunk right now, as has been stated alcohol is a mind poison, it does not excuse his actions but with that much booze in his toothpick of a frame he is not thinking clearly, not to mention his behavior is totally out of character.

3. Faye was indead calling the kettle black when she walked in and talked down to him for being so drunk.

4. Faye probably coulda stepped back or to the side and he woulda fallen on his face with the state he was in.

5. Even though Faye could probably very successfully file charges of sexual harrasment on Marten, he could just as easily file charges of harrassment/assault against her for hitting/shoving/striking him.


So far they both aren't saints, now i beg of you with 8 pages of the same arguments shouted over and over read today, if you don't have something new to add to the conversation please just stop talking.

/rantbomb
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 22:58
True, harassment law is generally more applicable to employment situations, as it was mainly created to keep scumbags from using access to continued employment/advancement as a form of extortion.

But in those situations, all it takes is one screw up or misinterpretation that in more than a few States to allow an employer to terminate you- and you have little to no recourse other than litigation that will likely go nowhere, and your career is already tainted.

Or you have your own lawsuit to file.  In any case, unless it's stalking, most "harassment" cases involve a work situation. In my classes on the subject we taught that harassment is not a single instance and in case law this is widely supported.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 15 Dec 2010, 22:59
If i give you a dickbroom, is that sexual harrassment?




That depends.  Is the person eating at the time?

is a frosty considered eating or drinking?

Eating at first, drinking twenty minutes later.

or blown up, in pintsize's case
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Nodaisho on 15 Dec 2010, 23:00
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 23:03
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?

LOL.  I've had my bit to say about Martin and Faye and thought I could help cool the fires on the other topic. I guess I just saw the "is it harassment" debate and thought I could settle it since it's an area of personal expertise.  But your point if pretty valid nonetheless.  :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 15 Dec 2010, 23:03
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?

The same reason I once went outside in teh snow to pee when theres a perfectly good toilet over there.


nobody knows.



'Cept these guys cant write their name in it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 23:03
Good ideas and entertaining ideas (to the person(s) having the discussion) are rarely the same thing.  :psyduck:


Edit: forgot a plural. FFFfffffffffffffffffffffffffff....
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 23:05
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?

I don't think anyone ever said it was a GOOD idea. 

I mean, strapping a piece of thin fabric to your back and then jumping out of an AIRBORNE PLANE isn't really a good idea, but a lot of people seem to enjoy it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 23:07
I still maintain he was joking but it was terribly insensitive and faye decked him.  Which would be in character for both of them.  So lets move on. :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 23:12
I still maintain he was joking but it was terribly insensitive and faye decked him.  Which would be in character for both of them.  So lets move on. :psyduck:

If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
   -Oscar Wilde


Granted, not all of what he said was completely correct, so he only got decked!  :psyduck:



...something compelling about that.  :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Nodaisho on 15 Dec 2010, 23:16
How does anyone ever think a legal discussion pertaining to a comic is a good idea?

I don't think anyone ever said it was a GOOD idea. 

I mean, strapping a piece of thin fabric to your back and then jumping out of an AIRBORNE PLANE isn't really a good idea, but a lot of people seem to enjoy it.
Except this is more like the tone-deaf people that sing at the top of their lungs in subway cars. All-around terrible for everyone but themselves.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 23:19
my cat does this, he is deaf and just walks around meowing loudly and doing nothing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 15 Dec 2010, 23:22
my cat does this, he is deaf and just walks around meowing loudly and doing nothing.

But cats do that when they aren't deaf as well.

But I just ignore them until they do something that actually entertains me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Dec 2010, 23:34
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been posed, but has anyone brought of the double standard?  For instance, let's say after Faye broke up with Sven, she got drunk.  Really drunk.  (She probably did, but bear with me)  She then goes to Martin, who's still with Dora at the time.  For whatever reason, she decides to make a move on Marten, and perhaps gets a bit handsy and makes similar comments that Marten made.

And Marten steps back and knocks her out.  Is this acceptable?  Fuck no.

Am I saying the situations are the same?  No.  But it's a little disturbing how people seem to think Faye's punching Marten was not, at the very least, a gross overreaction.

 :psyduck: Psyduck agrees, I'm sure.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Dec 2010, 23:37
One thing to keep in mind is that Marten has been drinking alone while having reason to be depressed for, like, probably hours now since Hanners left.  Meanwhile, Faye has been out making out with Angus.  That set off my 'shouldn't you be with Marten?  He's always been there for you' alarms yesterday and I'm sober and only thought about it for a minute.  Poor guy's super drunk and had a long time to build up resentment.  'Why is Faye with Angus and not here' is a question that could reasonably lead a drunk person to reach the conclusions he has.  Does that excuse his behavior?  No.  But really, Faye made out with Angus the whole night the day after an earth-shattering moment for her best friend.  I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.
I don't think this is really fair to Faye. Recall, too, that Faye has been left sitting on her own in the dumps while Marten was out with Dora—in fact, as memory serves, that's what perciptated the whole karaoke—go to Sven's place—sleep with him thing.

Trouble is, Faye may very well think as you do the next day. And she'd be wrong. Being a friend does not equal being a keeper of some sort. If you need that, it's time for you to be hauled off to an institution.

Of course, Faye may balance any guilt she feels (earned or not) with her own mistaken taking-to-heart the things Marten said to her. Truth? Drunks never speak the truth—for one thing, as a rule, everything is always skewed. In this case, it's all 'bout Poor Marten. However, Poor Marten is not Marten. He's that selfish little twerp we usually keep under lock and key, and rightly so. Otherwise, we'd never be able to coexist.

Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.

I'll add that line to my sig, if that's ok with the author...
Ah, to heli with her. Just take it. :evil:

Edit: Madness, if Faye has a chance of overpowering Marten, or even getting in a wrestling match over his mantenna array, then he's got my permission to deck her ass.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 23:42
No comic ... no comic ... F5 ... F5 ...

OMG too much analyzation.

Then again, I participated at that yesterday.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 15 Dec 2010, 23:43
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been posed, but has anyone brought of the double standard?  For instance, let's say after Faye broke up with Sven, she got drunk.  Really drunk.  (She probably did, but bear with me)  She then goes to Martin, who's still with Dora at the time.  For whatever reason, she decides to make a move on Marten, and perhaps gets a bit handsy and makes similar comments that Marten made.

And Marten steps back and knocks her out.  Is this acceptable?  Fuck no.

Am I saying the situations are the same?  No.  But it's a little disturbing how people seem to think Faye's punching Marten was not, at the very least, a gross overreaction.

 :psyduck: Psyduck agrees, I'm sure.

I agree. And I think the law would too (in both scenarios-hitting someone is pretty flat out obvious and thus easy to prosecute-sexual intimidation? Not as much.) But I highly doubt these folks would call the police on each other. The strip has demonstrated they tolerate physical violence. I think it's interesting that Dora once told Faye her paranoia about all things male was a bigger problem than she realized (ie. Faye saw predators everywhere that were gonna grab her-even in Martin pre dinner with his mom). This may be the final realization of that problem for her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Dec 2010, 23:46
(ie. Faye saw predators everywhere that were gonna grab her-even in Martin pre dinner with his mom)
I don't suppose it's a stretch to suggest that Faye's mom wasn't too helpful (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=355) in this matter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 23:49
One thing to keep in mind is that Marten has been drinking alone while having reason to be depressed for, like, probably hours now since Hanners left.  Meanwhile, Faye has been out making out with Angus.  That set off my 'shouldn't you be with Marten?  He's always been there for you' alarms yesterday and I'm sober and only thought about it for a minute.  Poor guy's super drunk and had a long time to build up resentment.  'Why is Faye with Angus and not here' is a question that could reasonably lead a drunk person to reach the conclusions he has.  Does that excuse his behavior?  No.  But really, Faye made out with Angus the whole night the day after an earth-shattering moment for her best friend.  I don't know about you guys, but when bad things happen to people, friends are supposed to be there for them, not show up after hours of drinking alone and brooding to receive the brunt of their mood and then play the victim when their friend is mean.
I don't think this is really fair to Faye. Recall, too, that Faye has been left sitting on her own in the dumps while Marten was out with Dora—in fact, as memory serves, that's what perciptated the whole karaoke—go to Sven's place—sleep with him thing.

I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him.  Literally any time.  The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing.  Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.

Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short.  Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye!  Going to Dora's place'.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GrievousBodyguard on 15 Dec 2010, 23:50
I don't think we'll see concussions. Faye punched a lot more and way harder (it has to be harder to punch a non-drunk person to the ground) and we never saw anything coming near to the realistic consequences of such beatings. 

I always felt the punches were overdone for comedic effect, otherwise Marten would never have stayed with her or just kicked her out of his apartment. Seriously, that would have been serious abuse, and their relationship could not have developed that way.

You're probably right, but still, it wouldn't be the first time (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1156) a character has had to deal with a concussion in the strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ecstaticjoy on 15 Dec 2010, 23:52
Daaaaaaaaaaang. Shit just got real in QC!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 15 Dec 2010, 23:55
my cat does this, he is deaf and just walks around meowing loudly and doing nothing.

But cats do that when they aren't deaf as well.

But I just ignore them until they do something that actually entertains me.

we have another cat that isnt deaf and she meows only when she is hungry or want attention.  This little dude is singing as he does everything.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Justin Alexander on 15 Dec 2010, 23:55
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'.  I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.

Yeah, I'm not clear where the "sexual harassment" talk is coming from. I have to assume these people are posting from somewhere outside the United States, because in the United States sexual harassment only applies to the work place. And in many states Marten would actually have to be Faye's superior or supervisor in order for sexual harassment to even possibly exist.

And if someone does live in a country where drunkenly propositioning a girl actually constitutes sexual harassment please let me know. 'Cause that's a country I never want to visit. God knows what other fucked up laws they've got on the books.

With that being said: Really no question Marten is being a dick here. And Faye hitting people when they're being dicks is pretty much par for the course. And readers treating Faye's comedic punches as if they were an abusive reality is even more par for the course. Welcome to Questionable Content.

Final thought: I'm unhappy with this strip because Marten seems completely out of character to me. And I don't think the booze justifies it.

I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him.  Literally any time.  The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing.  Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.

Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short.  Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye!  Going to Dora's place'.

Actually, the first thing Faye did was stay up and wait for Marten to get home. And then they talked about it.

Then the next day she cut her plans short so that she could go and check to see how Marten was doing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 15 Dec 2010, 23:58
Daaaaaaaaaaang. Shit just got real in QC!

Oh, shit's been real for quite a few strips now...



I guess what I really mean is: Please, please Mr. Jeph sir, please stop making the fictional characters that we all obsess about and live vicariously through stop saying mean things to each other.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 23:59
I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him.  Literally any time.  The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing.  Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.

Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short.  Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye!  Going to Dora's place'.

Actually, the first thing Faye did was stay up and wait for Marten to get home. And then they talked about it.

Then the next day she cut her plans short so that she could go and check to see how Marten was doing.

Faye stayed up to see what happened and then Marten went right to bed.  In the morning they talked for a few minutes and he said 'don't hurt Dora'.  Then Faye went to work, then out with Angus for hot make-outs.  She cut her plans slightly short (she wasn't going to stay the night and bang him or anything, it couldn't have been more than an hour shorter than she'd usually leave) to go and see how Marten was doing.  Her first words through the door weren't 'how do you feel', they were 'OMG you drank HOW MUCH?'.  Remember the big deal when Marten accidentally implied Faye was an alcoholic?  Yeah, she kind of did the same thing here, meaning she messed up twice as a 'friend'.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Dec 2010, 23:59
Alright, just clarifying, but there are viewpoints here other than "Marten deserved to get punched" and "Faye is a terrible friend", right?  Because neither of those ring true to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 00:01
actually its pretty incharacter if you take in the fact he gets extra snarky and makes dickish jokes, hell even at the bar after "the talk" we was pretty much being like this.

With this situation I think he is just more or less venting his anger via booze and made an insensitive joke.

Alright, just clarifying, but there are viewpoints here other than "Marten deserved to get punched" and "Faye is a terrible friend", right?  Because neither of those ring true to me.
THANK YOU! ive been saying that forever!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Justin Alexander on 16 Dec 2010, 00:04
Faye stayed up to see what happened and then Marten went right to bed.  In the morning they talked for a few minutes and he said 'don't hurt Dora'.  Then Faye went to work, then out with Angus for hot make-outs.  She cut her plans slightly short (she wasn't going to stay the night and bang him or anything, it couldn't have been more than an hour shorter than she'd usually leave) to go and see how Marten was doing.  Her first words through the door weren't 'how do you feel', they were 'OMG you drank HOW MUCH?'.  Remember the big deal when Marten accidentally implied Faye was an alcoholic?  Yeah, she kind of did the same thing here, meaning she messed up twice as a 'friend'.

(1) Alcoholic does not mean "got drunk". Nor does it mean "got really drunk". Nothing Faye said implied alcoholism.

(2) You're just factually incorrect. They talked at CoD. She stayed up and made herself available again later that evening. Then they talked again the next morning. Then she came home early in case he needed to talk again. The only way she could make herself more available would be to tether herself to Marty and follow him around all day.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: KypNydan on 16 Dec 2010, 00:08
I think his attitude is because of the alcohol induced hallucination.  He said it was a bad influence. We just didn't know how bad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 16 Dec 2010, 00:08
Faye stayed up to see what happened and then Marten went right to bed.  In the morning they talked for a few minutes and he said 'don't hurt Dora'.  Then Faye went to work, then out with Angus for hot make-outs.  She cut her plans slightly short (she wasn't going to stay the night and bang him or anything, it couldn't have been more than an hour shorter than she'd usually leave) to go and see how Marten was doing.  Her first words through the door weren't 'how do you feel', they were 'OMG you drank HOW MUCH?'.  Remember the big deal when Marten accidentally implied Faye was an alcoholic?  Yeah, she kind of did the same thing here, meaning she messed up twice as a 'friend'.

(1) Alcoholic does not mean "got drunk". Nor does it mean "got really drunk". Nothing Faye said implied alcoholism.

(2) You're just factually incorrect. They talked at CoD. She stayed up and made herself available again later that evening. Then they talked again the next morning. Then she came home early in case he needed to talk again. The only way she could make herself more available would be to tether herself to Marty and follow him around all day.

The talk at CoD was prior to Marten realizing there was actually a problem, and even then their 'talk' was Faye saying 'WOW you're bitter'.  Gold medal for understanding to: not Faye.  And despite your strawman, there's one key way she could have helped Marten out.  'Sorry Angus, I can't come make out with you tonight.  Marten needs me, I'm going to drink with him and Hanners.  How about we get together tomorrow night instead?"

Again, this is like Marten saying "Oh, sorry that you're worried about Angus, Faye, but I'm making out with Dora in here. I'll come talk to you in a few hours" and slamming the bedroom door in her face after she knocked that one night.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 16 Dec 2010, 00:10
I seem to recall Marten being there for Faye any time she needed him.  Literally any time.  The Sven-cheating thing, the scared-over-Angus thing.  Even after the first Dora-Kiss he went right to Faye and let her know, showing he cared about her.

Faye's reaction to Marten being in emotional peril for the first time ever was to cut her evening making out with Angus slightly short.  Imagine if Marten's response to Faye being sad was 'that's nice, bye!  Going to Dora's place'.

Yeah, I agree.  I have noted that his relationships seem rather one sided all in all. Dora freaks the hell out and dumps him the first time he really asserts himself with her and Faye punches him when she could have simply dropped him on his drunken ass. He owns his bad behavior and his poor choice of words but as I've said before, where is the grace for Martin in all of this? Is he only worth a damn when one of these girls has something to whine about to him?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 00:14
if today is a yelling bird comic im going to shit my pants before my finals.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Razgriz on 16 Dec 2010, 00:17
if today is a yelling bird comic im going to shit my pants before my finals.

I dunno, based on twitter Jeph has been drawing for awhile.  Isn't Yelling Bird just copy and paste?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 00:17
I dont tweet, but thanks for the info  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Justin Alexander on 16 Dec 2010, 00:18
Again, this is like Marten saying "Oh, sorry that you're worried about Angus, Faye, but I'm making out with Dora in here. I'll come talk to you in a few hours" and slamming the bedroom door in her face after she knocked that one night.

Okay, let's use that situation as an example. What does Marten do in the 24 hours after that?

(1) He makes himself available immediately to Faye. (Just like Faye did for him.)

(2) Marten leaves the apartment and goes for a walk. (We'll give him a pass since the Dora stuff went down. Faye, of course, remained available until Marten went to bed.)

(3) Marten has a brief conversation with Faye in the morning. (Just like Faye did with him.)

(4) Marten doesn't talk to Faye all that day. (Just like Faye did.)

(5) In fact, Marten doesn't get home that next night until very late. We see him walking through the front door after Hannelore got back from her date with Sven. (In other words, he gets home right around the same time Faye did.)

You've got a double-standard here. Even your own example demonstrates that you're wrong about this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 00:23
can we stop comparing "who has the most compassion for a friend" dickhead points here?

they dont have to be equal, they are friends not acquaintances, and if marten really wanted her to be there while he began drinking he would have called or texted her saying "i could use a friend right now"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 16 Dec 2010, 00:23
Alright, just clarifying, but there are viewpoints here other than "Marten deserved to get punched" and "Faye is a terrible friend", right?  Because neither of those ring true to me.

If you ask me, I think the situation is "Marten deserved to get punched" and "Faye is (still) his best friend because she punched him."



Sometimes, we all do stupid shit. At those times it is our friends and loved one's job to set us right. With force if necessary.

Marten was doing some stupid shit, and whatever his intention, he tripped Faye's self-defense protocol, and Faye's defense protocol is "flatten the motherfucker already."

Marten needed to get flattened, his behavior, from drinking the whole bottle to making a pass at Faye was wa-ah-ah-ah-ay out of line.

Faye knocked some sense into him, and he'll have the bump to prove it.

She did not do this out of anger, she did it out of necessity.

Will she regret it? Maybe, but it's more likely that she'll regret that it was necessary.


Will this hurt Marten and Faye's friendship? We'll see.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 00:27
I'm pretty sure this hasn't been posed, but has anyone brought of the double standard?  For instance, let's say after Faye broke up with Sven, she got drunk.  Really drunk.  (She probably did, but bear with me)  She then goes to Martin, who's still with Dora at the time.  For whatever reason, she decides to make a move on Marten, and perhaps gets a bit handsy and makes similar comments that Marten made.

And Marten steps back and knocks her out.  Is this acceptable?  Fuck no.

Am I saying the situations are the same?  No.  But it's a little disturbing how people seem to think Faye's punching Marten was not, at the very least, a gross overreaction.

 :psyduck: Psyduck agrees, I'm sure.

Hey look this isn't an argument that has been brought up like 5,000 times every time Faye is violent against someone male and the reverse wouldn't be acceptable.

This horse? It isn't dead, it's just lazy, that's why I keep hitting it with this whip.


The talk at CoD was prior to Marten realizing there was actually a problem, and even then their 'talk' was Faye saying 'WOW you're bitter'.  Gold medal for understanding to: not Faye.  And despite your strawman, there's one key way she could have helped Marten out.  'Sorry Angus, I can't come make out with you tonight.  Marten needs me, I'm going to drink with him and Hanners.  How about we get together tomorrow night instead?"

Again, this is like Marten saying "Oh, sorry that you're worried about Angus, Faye, but I'm making out with Dora in here. I'll come talk to you in a few hours" and slamming the bedroom door in her face after she knocked that one night.

When you are pretty deliberately casting characters' actions in a negative light to service your opinion, maybe you shouldn't throw around terms like "strawman"! Just a thought!

Here's a thought: Faye was blocked out by Marten earlier in the day, but she knew she would be playing the emotional crutch when she got home. Have you ever "been there" for someone in this state? It is so not fucking fun. It makes you feel like you are the one going through a breakup, and it sucks, and maybe, just maybe, she wanted to spend time with Angus and build up positive emotions before tending to the emotionally wounded.

Also, when someone drinks an entire fifth of bourbon, it is eminently reasonable to go "holy shit you drank the whole fucking thing", because, holy shit, they drank the whole fucking thing. That's dangerous, is what it is.

Of course, at this point I'm pretty sure this has been said already. Fuck it. I ain't posting another word till next comic is up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 00:29
Of course, at this point I'm pretty sure this has been said already. Fuck it. I ain't posting another word till next comic is up.
quothe the raven: nevermore!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 01:19
Heh, OWLS (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=150)!

Good ol' Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 16 Dec 2010, 01:22
Awww, Faye. :cry:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: redragon5000 on 16 Dec 2010, 01:26
It's always the wise ones...I mean, they're nocturnal. They can be all 'Ninja-head-ram' and fly off into the night before you even know you got hit.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 16 Dec 2010, 01:27
I liked this. Faye gave Marty the grace he deserves, even if I'm not sure he deserved the "owls".
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sharp on 16 Dec 2010, 01:28
Faye confirmed for Bro-Tier.  :mrgreen:

And might I say that not only am I happy we've moved onto the next day In-Comic, but even just out of bed, Faye is looking extra pretty today!  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: steveh11 on 16 Dec 2010, 01:29
Another +1 on the Fayometer.

I sometimes wonder how Jeph keeps track of everything that's happened in this comic, and returns to references so well.  I mean, Comic 150?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 01:30
Another +1 on the Fayometer.

I sometimes wonder how Jeph keeps track of everything that's happened in this comic, and returns to references so well.  I mean, Comic 150?
maybe he uses the random button he installed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 01:31
 :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: this fucking thread  :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

(referring to comments about the comics before the OWLS comic)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: TRVA123 on 16 Dec 2010, 01:32
Gah!

Half of me went "Awwww, what an adorable chaser to last nights mess"

the other half went "No, Faye, don't avoid confronting Marten about Douchefest 1818! Drag it out into the open and beat it to death!!"

Although, on reflection, there are probably much better times to have this talk with Marten.

Also, I loved the art in todays comic. Its really fantastic!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tio on 16 Dec 2010, 01:36
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 16 Dec 2010, 01:38
It could have been Vespavenger! We've not seen her for a while, and she could leave a mighty concussion ;)

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.  

Rawr!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: redragon5000 on 16 Dec 2010, 01:39
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?

If I remember correctly, that was a scar from the car accident. I could, however, remember completely incorrectly. If so, thousand apologies to you and an Internet cookie for the person who corrects me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 01:41
Okay I realize me just going "this fucking thread" is not very constructive when it comes to explaining to you guys what makes me so  :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: about it. Here goes:

Marten did not "sexually harass" Faye. What the fuck is wrong with you? Saying "let's make out" to a friend who's not interested is certainly a bad idea, inappropriate, etc., but if you honestly think something that (relatively) harmess qualifies as HARASSMENT I do not understand how you can get through your daily life without constantly suing people or pressing charges.

Yes, Faye is violent towards Marten. No, it wouldn't be acceptable if the roles were reversed. I. DON'T. FUCKING. CARE. It's part of how they interact. Is it healthy? No, although Marten seems like he's generally willing to put up with it. STOP FUCKING PULLING THE DOMESTIC ABUSE CARD ON THIS YOU IDIOTS. IT'S A COMIC.

I'm not responding to any replies on these subjects.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 16 Dec 2010, 01:42
I'm glad to see Jeph had both Marten and Faye act like the adults they are in this installment, instantly rendering the last 6 pages of discussion pointless. Good show Jeph  :angel:

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
OWLS! FUCKING OWLS!

Also upon further realization that the new reply was in fact Jeph's I have one meek statement to make: Thank fucking god. See that folks? You ended up dragging him into your bullshit. Can we stop screaming at one another about what qualifies as sexual abuse and get back to making jokes about fleshlights and dick brooms? I feel a little weird when I  have to be the one requesting this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 16 Dec 2010, 01:42
I hope Faye plans to talk to someone about this, Dr. Corrine at least, because if she just holds it in it's going to come up again at a later time...most likely at a quite inopportune moment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 01:44
Fuckin' owls man, you can't trust them. They're like green space-born Welsh ninjas.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 01:46
Also, Jesus Christ, people say DUMB SHIT when they're incoherently drunk. That comic was not some nefarious attempt by Marten to guilt Faye into fucking him. HE DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF BOURBON. HIS BRAIN WAS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.

goddamnit see this is why I stopped posting in these threads for years, the more I have to explain the most basic shit to some people the angrier and angrier I get
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 16 Dec 2010, 01:53
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?

You should know the answer to that question before posting.

It's kind of a big deal.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Enduar on 16 Dec 2010, 01:55
There, there Jeph. The vast stupidity of the internets can hardly be represented by this forum alone. 'Tis but a small taste.

Also I believe we have a good chance of seeing a wide spectrum of opinions around here, many of which you won't want to see, primarily because people seem to be trying to cover all possible reasoning as to the traits and actions of your characters.

That spectrum goes from hell to heaven- shit to gold.

The most contested points will be those argued most, that's why the shit is always stands out while the more reasonable assumptions are less apparent.

Just the nature of discussion. I think we've got a lot of people here who like to exercise their logic, regardless of certain other uh... Details.

 :psyduck: Indeed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 16 Dec 2010, 01:57
OWLS!
Everyone is fond of Owls
Except for mice and shrews
and Simon Cowells

And now Marten, I suppose. Thanks, Faye.

And, seriously, thanks Faye.

Even if you're not real


Weebl rocks on!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 02:00
Also, Jesus Christ, people say DUMB SHIT when they're incoherently drunk. That comic was not some nefarious attempt by Marten to guilt Faye into fucking him. HE DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF BOURBON. HIS BRAIN WAS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.

goddamnit see this is why I stopped posting in these threads for years, the more I have to explain the most basic shit to some people the angrier and angrier I get

Okay, well at least it hasn't been locked yet.

And I have to say, Jeph, that several people made the exact same point you just did, including myself, although it was in another thread.

I guess what I'm saying is that you really don't need to explain yourself, plenty of us are doing it for you (and doing it right).

Whether or not anyone listens is another story entirely, and I'm afraid it's always going to be that way!  You're not dealing with the general public in here, the people who felt compelled to make a post like the ones you're complaining about are the people who had strong reactions, and so their posts will be biased automatically.  No amount of shouting by reasonable people will change that, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue trying to inject some reason into the discussion.

It's just that it probably won't help at all!


Edit: fixed voice, subject/verb agreement, and some other confused grammar, and ninja'd Owls.  Been up all night grading...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: danwhite89 on 16 Dec 2010, 02:01
Thank you, Jeph.

I've only just joined this forum and it's only really to say that some people take things far to fucking seriously here eh. I'm not meaning to white knight or owt but some of the discussions here really take the fun out of what's a bloody comic.

As it happens, I tried to kiss my friend last night while horribly drunk. Whether the comic was subconsciously on my mind or not I do not know, but it happens. You get drunk, you do daft things, I don't think every single nitty gritty bit of detail needs to be over-analysed eh. No offence to anybody but that borders on being creepy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cyro on 16 Dec 2010, 02:04
All together now people: D'aawwwwwwww!

Wait; "OWLS?" Isn't that a Harry Potter referenc... OHGODRUNFORYOURLIVES!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 02:06
Apparently, I should just stop posting anything that might be controversial, because I think I accidentally hit all the points Jeph would prefer I not talk about.

Combined with the fact that I, according to several people, can't convey any position other than an extreme (and extremely stupid one) even when that's really not what I meant, I'm just going to apologize to everyone, especially you, Jeph, and police what I post more thoroughly.

Edit: And I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not used to being 'that guy', and it's not a good feeling.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 16 Dec 2010, 02:07
Just noticed the subtle art in panel 2. We can see Faye's back in the mirror: what Marten sees. So when Marten asks "Did I say anything stupid?" We as the viewer see two things: Faye's back in the mirror (what Marten sees) and a little aside glance that seems to say "Oh yeah you did" (What we are seeing).  Then she puts on her best bluff-smile and turns to face Marten, a good cover story about vicious owls on the tip of her tongue.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mpak87 on 16 Dec 2010, 02:09
Another +1 on the Fayometer.

I sometimes wonder how Jeph keeps track of everything that's happened in this comic, and returns to references so well.  I mean, Comic 150?

It's odd that this question was the one that got me to finally stop lurking and register, but I would imagine part of it has to do with the book that Jeph just published. It contains all of the earliest strips, and while I'm certain he is intimately familiar with his entire back catalog, working with those more recently probably has them fresher in his mind than they would be otherwise. Or he was just thinking back to the excuse that Faye used the last time that she knocked someone out and needed to tell them something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 16 Dec 2010, 02:11
Yay ! Comic !

And its about what I expected to happen.

And it seems we wont already get to see Ms Reed this week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 02:13
Apparently, I should just stop posting anything that might be controversial, because I think I accidentally hit all the points Jeph would prefer I not talk about.

Combined with the fact that I, according to several people, can't convey any position other than an extreme (and extremely stupid one) even when that's really not what I meant, I'm just going to apologize to everyone, especially you, Jeph, and police what I post more thoroughly.

Boomslang, just reread your posts before hitting "send".  Read it like you're a disinterested third party.  Read it like a business e-mail, and you'll catch most of what can be taken the wrong way, not to mention the spelling mistakes...

Oh, nevermind, the spelling thing is me, not you! 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 16 Dec 2010, 02:13
Now let's see if Marten can be a Smart Boy and not press the issue!

Good to see (albeit not surprising) that Faye took the rational approach to the situation - Marten's behavior was out of character and prompted by emotional trauma, so he gets a pass.  She won't bring it up, Marten can't bring it up, so everyone can just move the hell on.

Looking forward to seeing Marty's first day of constructively dealing with the breakup!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 02:13
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times  before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could  have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 02:14
Some of it is certainly that I had to obsessively reread the first 300 strips while putting together the first book. But a lot of it is just that I remember lots of the weird little details from the archives, even if I don't remember what specific strip they're from. It's the same way I can do 1800 comics without repeating a joke* (as far as I know)- I just remember whether I've done a gag before.

(the owl reference was a totally accidental callback)

*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 02:15
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.

Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 16 Dec 2010, 02:18
But Marten wasn't wearing a tie! I smell fallacy!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 16 Dec 2010, 02:20
...but if you honestly think something that (relatively) harmess qualifies as HARASSMENT I do not understand how you can get through your daily life without constantly suing people or pressing charges.



I've worked with people like this at Harbec and Webster Tool And Die.   They exist and they make life a living hell for everyone around them.

Imagine not being able to say "good morning, here is your work assignment" without being hauled into HR.    "Unwelcome advances."    Can't give them instructions, because everything you say is an innuendo and it makes them feel "uncomfortable" and creates a "hostile environment."

Frankly people who behave like that are the WORST sort of asshole and do not deserve employment.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 02:21
But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Sadly, there are unreasonable people in the world.  Not so few, either.  But agreed that you have given no reason the think that Faye could be among them.

But that part of the discussion simply moved on to different views of Marten's behaviour in the abstract, rather than what Faye's reaction would be.  This may feel like over-analysis to you, but it's hard to avoid some subject creep.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 02:21
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.[/i]

For what it's worth, I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR. It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 16 Dec 2010, 02:21
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.

Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.

Jeph, thank you. You're a wonderful human being. Just.....thanks  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 02:23
Apparently, I should just stop posting anything that might be controversial, because I think I accidentally hit all the points Jeph would prefer I not talk about.

Combined with the fact that I, according to several people, can't convey any position other than an extreme (and extremely stupid one) even when that's really not what I meant, I'm just going to apologize to everyone, especially you, Jeph, and police what I post more thoroughly.

Edit: And I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not used to being 'that guy', and it's not a good feeling.

To be fair, Booms, you were not one of the people perpetuating the idea that alcohol was truth serum, Marten had a nefarious plot to get in Faye's pants, or the incredibly tired idea that Faye is a violent monster who beats Marten for amusement.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 16 Dec 2010, 02:26

Jeph, thank you. You're a wonderful human being. Just.....thanks  :-)

Seconded.  I know you hate coming in here, but some of us do appreciate the effort you're taking to calm the more fringe-based of the Wild Mass Guessing, and we all appreciate your l33t h4x0r comic-drawing skills!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 16 Dec 2010, 02:28
Way to go, Faye! +10 empathy, +10 wisdom....

Let's take a tally of what she has accomplished lately.


Well done, Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 16 Dec 2010, 02:39
I cant help but feel I should repeat posting what I posted before - there is no way marten could POSSIBLY do ANYTHING to Faye.

She's simply STRONGER than him.

See, for example: Curse my puny indie-rock physique! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1313) (and we talk about Hanners here, the probably most lightweight of all characters on QC !)

Compare to: Faye, you're a cute, intelligent girl who can punch harder than any of the jocks who used to beat me up. You're fuckin' terrifying. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=162)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 16 Dec 2010, 02:41
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.[/i]

For what it's worth, I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR. It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.

You mean like Hanners/Tai/Pintsize?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 16 Dec 2010, 02:42
I like the first panel, you can tell Faye is debating what to do. It's quite cinematic for one frame (at least in my mind)

I wish Jeph didn't ONLY come here to lay down the law, but that's because I want to party with the entire TopatoCo crew in the future. Right now it's kinda creepy anonymously following them in Twitter and comics.

 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Pika_power on 16 Dec 2010, 02:44
I cant help but feel I should repeat posting what I posted before - there is no way marten could POSSIBLY do ANYTHING to Faye.

She's simply STRONGER than him.

See, for example: Curse my puny indie-rock physique! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1313) (and we talk about Hanners here, the probably most lightweight of all characters on QC !)

Compare to: Faye, you're a cute, intelligent girl who can punch harder than any of the jocks who used to beat me up. You're fuckin' terrifying. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=162)
You forget: Women have a weak spot. If grabbed on the upper arm by a man, they are incapacitated.

I must say, I prefer this sober-but-irritated Jeph to the Jeph that posts shock images and porn.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jeph on 16 Dec 2010, 02:46
don't get used to it
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 02:49
It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.

This week there's already a lot less of it, and I hope the trend continues.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 16 Dec 2010, 02:59

I must say, I prefer this sober-but-irritated Jeph to the Jeph that posts shock images and porn.

After all the posts we did, I'm surprised he ONLY did shock images and porn. Especially with the subsequent "OMGJEPHNEEDSHELP" thread.

EDIT: In all actuality, I would prefer not to irritate Jeph at all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 16 Dec 2010, 03:00
Admittedly I haven't been here long, but really the only time it got so bad that I just had to throw my hands up and stop posting was during the whole Dora-Marten break up week. There are always creeps and trolls every week (and honestly those are more titles that shift from person to person as the weeks go on, depending on individual bias, ect) but that week it just spread a little too far, to the point where an entire page could consist of nothing but trolls and frankly it was no longer conductive to discussion. I've yet to see these forums come even close to that level since, even with the whole "Sexual Assault" fiasco from last strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mojo on 16 Dec 2010, 03:04
Apparently not a Space Owl, though...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Napoleon_Blownapart on 16 Dec 2010, 03:15
Now that's a drunken rant that makes sense. Kudos to Jeph on making Marten so realistic. I remember times when I've been in the deepest pit of despair over something and lashed out at my close friends for past grievances which I had thought I forgave them for. I think most people realize that no slight is ever fully forgiven when emotional pain drives them to think deeply about it.

Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 16 Dec 2010, 03:20
I've read QC since before it hit 1000 comics, and this is the first time it has really depressed me. I signed up pretty much just to say that I really hope we can get back to some more cheerful comics soon. I admit that Faye and Angus having a makeout session was not too bad, but there are far too many comics with sad faces lately. I especially don't want to see Marten being a dick to Faye, they are usually such good friends. Even if there's some justification (I don't know if there is...) for him to feel that way, it still makes me sad.

He does have a point about Faye seeming to like jerks though. There's no way Sven was anything but a jerk to her, and she jumped into his bed without much hesitation. Even though Angus has been acting like a decent guy lately he definitely had some jerk traits to him way back when he was first introduced. It pretty much seemed like foreplay between him and Faye when they'd spar verbally. She likes that kind of thing.

I'm definitely not saying that makes it OK for Marten to say what he did or to make advances toward her though. I would never use a completely hyperbolic term like "harassment", but their history together makes it completely out of line. Just as one friend to another, he should always know that is something you can't say even as a joke.

When I say Angus has some jerk traits, I don't mean I dislike the character and believe he's all wrong for Faye. He's not too well developed, barely has a fully-formed personality yet, but I've got nothing against the dude. Then again, I never had any problem with 'classic Sven' either. So he sleeps with lots of women. The only reason I can see to dislike him for that is jealousy. He never did anything all that bad, unless I forgot something. We only have Dora's word for a lot of the things he is supposed to have done in the past, and forgive me if I take that with a whole ocean of salt.

So... yesterday's comic made me really sad, and I really don't want this from QC. Obviously it has to be resolved but after that I hope there's a goddamn long break from anything related to relationship drama. I don't mind if Marten (or anyone else) manages to get together with someone in a nice, happy story arc, but please... no more sad faces. Not for a while.

Today I have a slight concern about events. I don't know if it is far of Faye to keep from Marten the knowledge of what he said and did last night. Now he doesn't get to apologize or to tell her that he didn't really mean it. He might vaguely remember some of the details as the day goes on, and it might well fester in both of their minds. It could spoil a really good friendship. In fact my fear yesterday was that it might already have done so, but Faye... seems to have forgiven him. The one good thing about her violence is that she usually treats the act of knuckle retribution as the end of the matter.

I hope Faye and Marten talk about this later, or maybe that Faye tells someone (Hannelore?) who then tells Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 16 Dec 2010, 03:22
For what it's worth, I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR. It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.
Fair enough. I'm taking a look at myself.

And yes, Faye is indeed a "you've had your lumps, no more to be said" kind of girl. Excellent Agent Turing shout-out too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Dandy Inferno on 16 Dec 2010, 03:39
You do realise that now Marten's going to have a random flashback during the day, cueing cries of "Ohshitohshitohshit..." and a mild breakdown, right?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 03:50
Maybe, maybe not.  It's hard to predict what brain cells get killed by the alcohol.  Some memories are actually gone for good, and no amount of piecing things together can help.

Remember, the stuff is a poison!  It's literally the toxic waste of yeast.  And, while killing a few brain cells on occasion is fun for the side effects, it's the massive doses and/or continuous use that causes real problems.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cesariojpn on 16 Dec 2010, 03:55
Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 16 Dec 2010, 03:56
Dude's just lucky he's not in the hospital right now.

Skinny little runt like Marten, whole bottle of rotgut, that's just a bad idea!

Even without the owls, Marten's head probably feels like a steam roller used his skull for a parking block.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: themacnut on 16 Dec 2010, 04:03
I doubt Marten will remember. Between the fifth of bourbon and the fist to the skull, those memories should be pretty well wiped. And it's great of Faye to let them stay that way. Marten's already nursing a major hangover and a throbbing goose egg on the noggin, he doesn't need crushing guilt added to the mix. (And we should all know Marten WOULD feel crushing guilt over what he said and tried to do to Faye right? Right?)

Besides he's still got the impending visit of his mom to deal with. Hearing of his drunk-induced dickery may well drive him to suicide rather than face his mom with THAT knowledge.
 
EDIT:

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?

If Faye's smart, she won't mention...the incident. The only way Ms. Reed (her real name btw) could find out is if someone tells her, and I don't see either Faye or Marten doing so.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 16 Dec 2010, 04:08
Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
A) I'm pretty sure she meant emotionally and B) I suspect Veronica would've beaned a friend who tried that on her herself. Also, C) as has been pointed out, who's going to tell her? The poor, framed owl? Ther\y don't talk too much, even in their own defense.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 04:11
Marten may not be able to reason through the 'owls' explanation right now, but he's probably going to realize upon recovering that Faye probably didn't actually mean owls. And then it will occur to him that Faye must have had a good reason to blame the sore skull on the owls, rather than tell him what really caused it, and then he will hopefully drop the matter without saying something, because he really should trust Faye about these things. She's definitely a better influence than the beast of bourbon.

So, Veronica?

Next week?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 16 Dec 2010, 04:17

<snip>

...Also, C) as has been pointed out, who's going to tell her? The poor, framed owl? Ther\y don't talk too much, even in their own defense.

WHOOO?!?!?!?! HOO??!!! HOO??!!! indeed.







Owl noises.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 04:22
Ninja'd, by akronnick, no less. 
 
(0v0)

Who, me?


Also, I'm pretty sure Marten already knows what "Owls" means.  And he's friend-smart enough to drop it. 

'cause it means Faye stopped him from doing something that needed to be stopped, just like the last time. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 16 Dec 2010, 05:09
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: gathayah on 16 Dec 2010, 05:17
What? No Faye, rip him a new one! He deserves it!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 05:22
No, he does not. 

From the fundamental character thread yesterday, please forgive me for self-quoting;

A lot of this is the bourbon talking, too.  It's simplified his outlook and view of the situation, 'cause face it, you can't analyse anything complex when inebriated.  Drunken epiphanies are garbage in the sober light of day. 

I can actually hear his slurring of "Commere an' gimme a..."  (Why do "stinkin" drunks seem to always wanna kiss someone?)

In some ways it's unfortunate that he probably won't remember this.  Because Faye will. 

Always. 

Sorry, this isn't shedding much light on Marten's fundamental character, but it's more along the lines that what we're seeing in 1818 isn't really his fundamental character - it's a proto-Marten, like a laptop running in "Safe" mode - severely impaired at best. 

That's a helluva lot of bourbon for a skinny kid, even counting Hanner's glass (which he probably finished off after she left). 

Faye's forgiving him, though.  And now, he knows it, even though he doesn't know why. 

After all, what are friends for?  And despite whatever remnants of sexual tension there may be, they are still the best of friends. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 16 Dec 2010, 05:30
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.

I'm afraid such unethical practices are not unheard of in the academiae. For the purpose of making your list of publications look longer than it actually is. I am uncertain as to whether it is illegal, i.e. whether you could be tried for that in a court of law, but it is most certainly frowned upon.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 16 Dec 2010, 05:36
I love how Faye doesn't seem angry at all. Marten made a stupid mistake, and Faye is forgiving him. All's right with the world.


*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
And if it is not, can Jeph sue himself???
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 16 Dec 2010, 05:43
OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180° they have no idea how to walk backwards.

I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 16 Dec 2010, 05:50
Wait...

Are the rocks themselves covered with feathers or is it the sack as a whole?




This is Very Important!

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 16 Dec 2010, 06:05
Thank fuck!

They move on, Marten takes up owl hunting as a way to relieve stress, that stupid sexual harassment talk is over with, and we can get back to thinking about the important things in the comic: Marten's mom showing up and putting Dora and a group of endangered owls in two separate, soon-to-explode buildings and giving Pizza Girl the wrong addresses on purpose.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 06:07
(TLDR comments since last post)

Re: today's comic - At least she didn't say "space owls."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: bhtooefr on 16 Dec 2010, 06:13
Marten may not be able to reason through the 'owls' explanation right now, but he's probably going to realize upon recovering that Faye probably didn't actually mean owls. And then it will occur to him that Faye must have had a good reason to blame the sore skull on the owls, rather than tell him what really caused it, and then he will hopefully drop the matter without saying something, because he really should trust Faye about these things. She's definitely a better influence than the beast of bourbon.

Also, I'm pretty sure Marten already knows what "Owls" means.

Indeed - keep in mind that he was present for Faye's explanation that space owls attacked Agent Turing. (Never mind that Jeph said that he forgot about that one, but it still works.)

That said... Veronica is coming to town very soon. She may well see the lump on his head, and start asking questions. Then things will get interesting...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 16 Dec 2010, 06:19
Fuckin' owls man, you can't trust them. They're like green space-born Welsh ninjas.

"The owls are not what they seem."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 06:25
If this is the bottom, what's the first step up?

Hungover apologies to Faye.    - 58 (39.5%) DINGDINGDING We have a winnah!
Marten puking on Faye.    - 14 (9.5%)
Marten puking on MOM.    - 12 (8.2%)
Mom believing Faye about the right hook.    - 9 (6.1%)
Marten puking on Pintsize.    - 3 (2%)
Marten throwing Pintsize across the room.    - 4 (2.7%)
Faye finding out Pintsize has her bras.    - 7 (4.8%)
Faye throwing Pintsize across the room.    - 1 (0.7%)
Dora finally "getting it" in therapy.    - 9 (6.1%)
Hannelore meets Mom.    - 18 (12.2%)
Other    - 12 (8.2%)

Total Voters: 147
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: DJRubberducky on 16 Dec 2010, 06:29
(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood). 
Not just fallacy - outright lie.

Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.

I'm gonna second that, being both a fat girl and a survivor of sexual assault. Please learn how to defend yourself. It might save your life.

Okay, I anticipated at least one reply like this when I woke up this morning and thought back to it, and I've already prepared my remarks:

I will not apologize for my choice of words, because I believe anyone who knows or can find out what fallacy means could reasonably deduce that I know rape isn't like that.

I *will*, however, very deeply and whole-heartedly apologize for casually throwing around a phrase that would almost assuredly be a trigger for at least one person reading the forums.  I promise I really do try to keep those sorts of remarks to a minimum, even in jest, and I apologize for any hurt I inflicted by not catching this one.  And I will warn that I intend to explain triggers in my next few paragraphs, and I'll be using an example, so please be prepared.

For those of you who are blessed enough to not know about the concept of a trigger: There's a reason people label certain events as "traumatic".  These things mess with you.  Deeply.  And sometimes, in the course of getting on with your life after surviving a traumatic event, something else will happen that will remind you of that traumatic event, to the point where you begin to re-experience the memories or at least the feelings that accompanied it.  That something else is called a "trigger".  Survivors who share the details of their traumatic event will often preface such sharing with a trigger warning, because reading about (e.g.) a rape happening to someone else is a pretty easy way to be reminded of when it happened to you.

In the case of one of my previous posts, the statement that "no one wants to rape a fat chick" could very easily be someone's trigger, because while I know (and of course any full-bodied rape survivor knows) that such a statement is not true, there *are* still people in this world who genuinely believe it, and will tell such a survivor to her face that what happened to her could not possibly have been rape.  This simultaneously belittles her feelings, impugns her honesty and insults her appearance!  Seriously, if you want to kick someone while they're down, that's a really awesome way to do it.

Yes, I immediately followed the phrase with the word "fallacy" to indicate that I don't believe it, but I still could have done a better job of denoting that, or better yet have refrained from crediting my luck thus far to my size.  It was a glib remark that didn't add any value to my assertion, the joke did not need to be made to illustrate my point, and thus any hurt that I caused by saying it was truly unnecessary.

---

On a related note: some folks here have said that Faye overreacted in punching Marten when a simple push might have sufficed.  Some of the same folks are wondering why there's been such a popular response of "Hell Yeah Go Faye" in reaction to said punching.  I will suggest, without any regard for how many other people have suggested it before me, that if one were to examine the populations of forum posters who have received such unwelcome contact and those who have not, and compare them to the populations of folks who believe Faye was justified in her violence and those who are not, there would be significant overlap.

(Another potential trigger - sorry!)  I fall into the former camp in both cases.  I was an early bloomer and got a *ton* of unwelcome attention in middle school.  There was one day in seventh grade that I was literally surrounded by a group of boys leering at me, and the only thing that made them stop was that I punched one of them in the dick.  I didn't get in trouble for it, and I never got cornered like that again, but boys would still leer and make grabs at my chest, and I went for quite a while with my fingernails cut and filed into points just in case.

---

Finally, I would like to reassure anyone who was genuinely worried about my safety that I have taken self-defense classes, including the R.A.D. program offered through my workplace.  I've not been able to go back and re-take the drill in a while, but I am confident that if I am overcome by an attacker, it will not be due to my seizing in panic or not knowing what to do.  I've got that "transmute fear to anger" skill down pretty well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 06:34
That looks like a scar on Faye's right breast. Where is that from? Or am I just crazy?

*Sigh*

Faye was in a car accident before she moved to NoHo.

She had a nervous breakdown (PTSS, probably) while driving the car, and it ended up upside down in an oak tree.

It was because of... Oh, geez, go read strips 307 through 510, okay? You'll "get it".

EDIT: Here:



Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 06:39
can we stop comparing "who has the most compassion for a friend" dickhead points here?

they dont have to be equal, they are friends not acquaintances, and if marten really wanted her to be there while he began drinking he would have called or texted her saying "i could use a friend right now"

This.  So much this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 16 Dec 2010, 06:46
1. I missed a Jeph rant at us?  Damn this feeble body for needing sleep...

2. At first, I thought Faye lying about what happened was a REALLY bad idea, honesty being the best policy and all, but the more I think about it it's the best course of action, at least as long as Marten is vomiting his pancreas and feels like a 777 landed on him. 

3.
...but if you honestly think something that (relatively) harmess qualifies as HARASSMENT I do not understand how you can get through your daily life without constantly suing people or pressing charges.



I've worked with people like this at Harbec and Webster Tool And Die.   They exist and they make life a living hell for everyone around them.

Imagine not being able to say "good morning, here is your work assignment" without being hauled into HR.    "Unwelcome advances."    Can't give them instructions, because everything you say is an innuendo and it makes them feel "uncomfortable" and creates a "hostile environment."

Frankly people who behave like that are the WORST sort of asshole and do not deserve employment.   

In fairness, you ARE supposed to wear pants at work.   :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 06:50
OWLS!
Everyone is fond of Owls
Except for mice and shrews
and Simon Cowells

I opened up the very toon after reading the comic.  It was too perfect.

Edit:
OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180° they have no idea how to walk backwards.

I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.

Now you listen to me.  How dare you malign such majestic creatures that way.  Clearly, you know nothing about owls.  Owls are vicious killers who would do you in a heartbeat.  They might act stupid, but that's only to throw you off their trail.  They're worse than squirrels, which is why the CIA now has them in their employ. 

True story.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 16 Dec 2010, 07:02
Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
Uh, I doubt that was the kind of damage Mrs Reed was talking about ...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 16 Dec 2010, 07:06
Owls. Of course! Why didn't I think of the old trusty owl excuse?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: raoullefere on 16 Dec 2010, 07:13
Poll option: Faye actually being NICE to a customer.

What the hell is in any way normal about that?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 16 Dec 2010, 07:20
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 07:24
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 07:25
Poll option: Faye actually being NICE to a customer.

What the hell is in any way normal about that?

I'm guessing it's a poor choiuce of words for the poll title.  None  of these have anything to do with normalcy...

How about "Road to recovery"?  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: adrialexi on 16 Dec 2010, 07:53
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.

Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.

I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 08:12
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 08:17
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone.  Maybe it IS me.   :psyduck:

Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 16 Dec 2010, 08:46
At least she didn't say "space owls."

You mean there's another kind of owl???  :-o
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Armadillo on 16 Dec 2010, 08:48
Jehovah's Witness owls.  God, they're annoying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 16 Dec 2010, 08:52
Also, Jesus Christ, people say DUMB SHIT when they're incoherently drunk. That comic was not some nefarious attempt by Marten to guilt Faye into fucking him. HE DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF BOURBON. HIS BRAIN WAS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.

goddamnit see this is why I stopped posting in these threads for years, the more I have to explain the most basic shit to some people the angrier and angrier I get

Welcome to the Internet, Jeph (as the saying goes on another site "The Internet Makes You Stupid").

What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 08:53
I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

No, not banned (not that I've got any such powers).  And not in the least belittled.  What you certainly have is our sympathy, for what little good it does.  

It's clear that your "friend" went much further than Marten did, and had the size/strength differential been in Marten's favor, this incident could have ended much differently.  In the comic, it didn't, Faye was able to stop him.  It's also possible that, faced with what he was doing, Marten would have realized he was going too far, even in his drunken state.  

While it's possible to play the what if game with fictional characters, your real life went in a different direction, and to be honest, your "friend" (and I use the term very  loosely) was clearly no Marten.  I'm truly sorry for what happened to you, it should never happen to anyone, and it clearly puts you in a different place than many of us when reading this comic.  I hope you've been able to get some help for the trauma.  

But Jeph is  right about Marten and Faye.  He has to be, they're in his  head.  The situation sucked, he was being a dick, it went no further.  There is no alternate reality here, where Marten goes beyond the pale.  We realize it wasn't your reality, either.  Doesn't make you unwelcome, it's just more proof that in various ways, different for all of us, life sucks.  

Well, parts of it.  

The rest is pretty awesome, Keep trying to focus on that.  I understand it can help.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rikushix on 16 Dec 2010, 08:57
It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.

Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.

I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

No. It's not a joke.

Jeph wasn't making a statement about women in general, he was making a statement about Marten and Faye. He feels that there's no possible way Faye could construe Marten's behavior as leading to sexual coercion or force.

If he had said "There is no way that a woman, at the point where she is in that situation, would ever think that a guy's actions were any more than drunken idiocy..." THEN I would agree with you.

But I don't. These are fictional characters and Jeph can make whatever broad statements he wants about them.

Rape is not funny. My girlfriend was raped - twice. It's a horrific experience and she still feels the effects from it.

But this has nothing to do with rape and you need to look at the bigger picture.

edit: Carl-E got to it first. Thank you for putting it more succinctly than me.

super edit: Man, I've been reading QC for years and this is only my 14th post?  :|
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 08:58
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone.  Maybe it IS me.   :psyduck:

Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.

I am not necessarily all about Vashj'ir, but I loved running around fightan naga on my seahorse and how Goddamn pretty it was. It didn't really get repetitive till right near the end, and even then, I could stand it, especially with the culmination.

Archaeology, on the other hand, has me punching small animals right alongside ye, but I can't stop what is wrong with me
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: benenator on 16 Dec 2010, 09:02
And this, laddies and jellyspoons, is why you don't drink a whole lion at once.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 09:04
That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

You have my sympathy; it could not be otherwise.  But Jeph hasn't made your experience a joke, because the comic is not about you, nor was there a rape in the comic, nor did he make what Marten did in the comic a joke (indeed, he described it in his twitter as the darkest point of the current story).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 09:04
What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?

Dammit, Odin, you're such a one-note monkey!  

Look, you keep saying "read your other posts", so I did.  Several of them.  Many are filled with calling other forumites morons or trolls, most have specious arguments gleaned from what must be a scanning of the archive, since you seem to have no grasp of a lot of the details of the story.  People who point out your fallacies are ignored, and ... well, I'm getting tired of it, really.  

Just ignoring the preponderance of the evidence and running around screaming "Marten's a spineless NiceGuyTM" does NOT  make it true.  

Now go back, and really read  the damn comics.  I know it may be a challenge, but I think you'll find it's worth it.  You also might want to try listening to other people.  You don't have to agree with them, but if you actually listen to what they say, you may be able to refute them without simply calling them names.  

Or you can go get a job at Fox news.  

Either way, it should keep you busy for a while.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 16 Dec 2010, 09:21
And this, laddies and jellyspoons, is why you don't drink a whole lion at once.

When the wine goes in, strange lions come out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 16 Dec 2010, 09:27
What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?

Dammit, Odin, you're such a one-note monkey!  

Look, you keep saying "read your other posts", so I did.  Several of them.  Many are filled with calling other forumites morons or trolls, most have specious arguments gleaned from what must be a scanning of the archive, since you seem to have no grasp of a lot of the details of the story.  People who point out your fallacies are ignored, and ... well, I'm getting tired of it, really.  

Just ignoring the preponderance of the evidence and running around screaming "Marten's a spineless NiceGuyTM" does NOT  make it true.  

You obviously haven't been reading my other posts like you claim (this one is from this very thread):

Whether Marten is still a Nice Guy or not remains to be seen, but at the very beginning of this comic he pretty much was. Jeph may have redefined him recently, but we haven't actually seen it outside of his interactions with Hannelore and other people he has no romantic interest in.

That was a pre-1818 comic comment.

Quote
Now go back, and really read  the damn comics.  I know it may be a challenge, but I think you'll find it's worth it.  You also might want to try listening to other people.  You don't have to agree with them, but if you actually listen to what they say, you may be able to refute them without simply calling them names.  

Or you can go get a job at Fox news.  

Either way, it should keep you busy for a while.  

I've already read them, thank you. You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy. Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).

I think Marten realizes that kind of thinking is unhealthy, but is suppressing it rather than trying to deal with it, which is why he acted the way he did when he got shitfaced.

As for calling other people on here morons, I already said in the conduct thread that I'd cut back on that, so unless you've got examples of me doing that since then bringing it up again isn't gaining you anything (never mind the borderline slur in your opening remark, pot/kettle, etc.).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 16 Dec 2010, 09:27
OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180° they have no idea how to walk backwards.

I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.

 This post just gave me the weirdest sense of deja-vu...

 Sigh...

 When I have dreams that end up coming true. I wonder why it's always mundane stuff like this?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 16 Dec 2010, 09:34
I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

I fail to see the joke you are referring too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 16 Dec 2010, 09:38
Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).

I dunno, when the author himself explains it as 'stupid shit' born from nothing but alcohol and writes off the idea that it's indicative of any feelings he harbors deep down, I'd defer to him.

Also, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 16 Dec 2010, 09:54
Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).

I dunno, when the author himself explains it as 'stupid shit' born from nothing but alcohol and writes off the idea that it's s indicative of any feelings he harbors deep down, I'd defer to him.

Read this article (PDF) for a bit more clarity on why that particular argument is fallacious at best (especially in an environment that was created solely for the posting of critical pluralism perspectives on the comic). http://www.ou.edu/ouphil/faculty/irvin/Intention.pdf

Quote
Also, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.

Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 16 Dec 2010, 10:09
I glanced through that article but it seems to be that it would be more applicable to a body of work where the author is unable to provide any information on that work.

But I get the general point. Words can have different meanings so anyone can interpret them as they see fit. As a result, it's not right to say any one person's interpretation of a literary work is wrong, no matter what that interpretation is.

I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation (as does the author) and the article itself, but I guess it's nice in that this article can defend anyone's thoughts on any literary work.

EDIT: I will note that you say the environment is designed for such discussions, and I do agree, but we've seen that such talk is somewhat limited. The wildest interpretations have not been treated kindly here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Superkid11 on 16 Dec 2010, 10:15
My only disappointment is that the burbon did not bring him closer to Z̥̗̤͆ͦ̔̋ͬa̲̱͔̎͂l͈̭͍̤̱̞̫̠͖͊ͫ͟g̼̝̃̉͒̓̚o̰͓̞̝͙͓̫̤̝̅̈́̊͆.
His only sanctuary.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 10:18
<snip> nested quotes for brevity

You obviously haven't been reading my other posts like you claim (this one is from this very thread):

Whether Marten is still a Nice Guy or not remains to be seen, but at the very beginning of this comic he pretty much was. Jeph may have redefined him recently, but we haven't actually seen it outside of his interactions with Hannelore and other people he has no romantic interest in.

That was a pre-1818 comic comment.

Quote
Now go back, and really read  the damn comics.  I know it may be a challenge, but I think you'll find it's worth it.  You also might want to try listening to other people.  You don't have to agree with them, but if you actually listen to what they say, you may be able to refute them without simply calling them names. 

Or you can go get a job at Fox news. 

Either way, it should keep you busy for a while. 

I've already read them, thank you. You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy. Tuesday's comic just showed it all still brewing there under the surface (with the bitter side of the Nice Guy unleashed by copious amounts of alcohol!).

I think Marten realizes that kind of thinking is unhealthy, but is suppressing it rather than trying to deal with it, which is why he acted the way he did when he got shitfaced.

As for calling other people on here morons, I already said in the conduct thread that I'd cut back on that, so unless you've got examples of me doing that since then bringing it up again isn't gaining you anything (never mind the borderline slur in your opening remark, pot/kettle, etc.).

Well, I must've missed that comment, and I do appreciate your restraint in that area.  I guess I was just reminded of it when I was going back through some of your less recent posts!

But you keep on making the same argument over and over again, despite how many people refute it.  I even agreed with you in one thread, Marten did indeed start up the comic as a Nice GuyTM, but developed past that pretty quickly within the first few hundred comics.  The character is constantly and consistently being fleshed out, and he really is just a nice guy.  Sure, there are probably some evil thoughts rattling around in his mind, there are in all of ours, but that doesn't make them his thoughts, nor even his genuine feelings on the matter.  A few people (with a great deal more experience about alcohol than I have) have posted their thoughts on the matters of extreme drunkenness in this very thread, and while "in vino veritas" is a popular idea, extreme drunkenness does nothing to reveal truth.  Marten's actions were those of someone trying to forget their pain in a thoroughly unhealthy way, and rationalizing some pretty base animal impulses.  It was not a peek into his deep character, or inner psyche, or anything of the sort.

We'll probably always disagree on this point, simply because you're disregarding what I and other people have pointed out to you repeatedly, and that  just doesn't bode well for you ever presenting a reasonable argument to support your point of view.

Which means you probably won't ever be able to change mine.

Again, my apologies for calling you on past behaviors.

See you 'round!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 16 Dec 2010, 10:23
Why is that?  Why do the "good guys" get shit on so much harder when they screw up, no matter how rarely it happens?

Higher expectations.

People grow used to a punctual worker being punctual. An honest person being honest. A high achiever... uh... achieving. And thus, with those high expectations comes a far higher fall when the person makes a mistake.

Nobody expects a priest to flip off someone on the highway.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: mira on 16 Dec 2010, 10:27
This just keeps getting stranger and stranger. People should stop projecting their own problems and experiences on these characters and, if you must, analyze them instead based on the context of the story.  This is not dismissing your pain or your experience if you've been sexually assaulted. I am simply saying that this comic is not attempting to make any statement about sexual assault or crime. Note, no assault happened, characters acted in ways they normally do (whether you like that she socked him or not) and things have moved on in the story.

Jeph said nothing to demean anyone's experience as a victim of sexual assault. Seriously? Talk about out of character. Don't know the guy but I definitely have seen NOTHING to lend itself to that interpretation.

 Please, remember we are talking about the comic in here, not commenting on your real life experiences.  Sometimes stories don't match reality and they definitely don't always match our personal realities.  So, in commenting on his creation, this comic, he was in no way, I'm sure, meaning to make some statement about your situation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 10:30
Read this article (PDF) for a bit more clarity on why that particular argument is fallacious at best

But that article doesn't quite say it's fallacious at best; it presents a comparison and discussion of five or so different points of view on intentionalism, with a clear bias away from actual intentionalism.  It is easy to see how authors can get annoyed at critics when they argue that their work has a different meaning from that they intended, and all the more so when they have been persuaded (as in this case) to explain what the intended meaning is.

When I started to study Physics at university, I discovered an alternative called Engineering Science, and changed to it.  I did this because it was more closely concerned with the real world I live in.  Similarly, I have little time for this kind of philosophical argument, which I regard rather as a modern-day equivalent of counting the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin.  You may see this as a failing in me - but I think it's not uncommon!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: adrialexi on 16 Dec 2010, 10:34
Thank you for your comments. It is not the comic as much as the discussion here that bothers me. As this situation is too triggering and all of the "any reasonable/rational/sane" statements are the main cause, I will disengage from this thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Superkid11 on 16 Dec 2010, 10:37
This just keeps getting stranger and stranger. People should stop projecting their own problems and experiences on these characters and, if you must, analyze them instead based on the context of the story.  This is not dismissing your pain or your experience if you've been sexually assaulted. I am simply saying that this comic is not attempting to make any statement about sexual assault or crime. Note, no assault happened, characters acted in ways they normally do (whether you like that she socked him or not) and things have moved on in the story.

Jeph said nothing to demean anyone's experience as a victim of sexual assault. Seriously? Talk about out of character. Don't know the guy but I definitely have seen NOTHING to lend itself to that interpretation.

 Please, remember we are talking about the comic in here, not commenting on your real life experiences.  Sometimes stories don't match reality and they definitely don't always match our personal realities.  So, in commenting on his creation, this comic, he was in no way, I'm sure, meaning to make some statement about your situation.

This, oh god, a million times this. Jesus christ.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 16 Dec 2010, 10:38
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.

I'm afraid such unethical practices are not unheard of in the academiae. For the purpose of making your list of publications look longer than it actually is. I am uncertain as to whether it is illegal, i.e. whether you could be tried for that in a court of law, but it is most certainly frowned upon.

It has been brought to court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogerty_v._Fantasy), in one of the stupider things ever to occur in the judicial system, along with one of the most badass - Fogerty won the case by literally bringing a guitar to the witness stand.


I've scanned, and I dunno if I missed it, but how would Veronica's warning to Faye on harming Martin apply to this situation? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459)

As long as Marten doesn't know, no one else ever will!  That's why she didn't tell him about it the next morning - she's covering her bases!

...and being a good friend at the same time.  Two for the price of one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 10:41
This just keeps getting stranger and stranger. People should stop projecting their own problems and experiences on these characters and, if you must, analyze them instead based on the context of the story.  This is not dismissing your pain or your experience if you've been sexually assaulted. I am simply saying that this comic is not attempting to make any statement about sexual assault or crime. Note, no assault happened, characters acted in ways they normally do (whether you like that she socked him or not) and things have moved on in the story.

Jeph said nothing to demean anyone's experience as a victim of sexual assault. Seriously? Talk about out of character. Don't know the guy but I definitely have seen NOTHING to lend itself to that interpretation.

 Please, remember we are talking about the comic in here, not commenting on your real life experiences.  Sometimes stories don't match reality and they definitely don't always match our personal realities.  So, in commenting on his creation, this comic, he was in no way, I'm sure, meaning to make some statement about your situation.

This, oh god, a million times this. Jesus christ.

Hey, you know what might be cool?  Not dogpiling the girl who got triggered.

No, really. It's been said over and over again.  I'm sure she got the picture. Telling her about how she's overreacting and how her feelings are wrong are hardly helping things.  I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, but let's just all calm the hell down and move on, okay?  Please?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Superkid11 on 16 Dec 2010, 10:45
People projecting their own problems onto this strip has been practically a staple of comic discussions. I was quoting mira more in response to that general trend and not that specific one, and I assumed that's generally what they meant other than that mention.

... still yeah sorry. Most cases are less justified/much whinier than that. I came in late here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 16 Dec 2010, 10:47
Quote
Also, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.

Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.

You mean like this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1696)?  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 10:54
Quote
Also, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.

Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.

You mean like this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1696)?  :-P

Ahhh, beat to the link!  Coises.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Digitized on 16 Dec 2010, 10:58
... I like Faye. I like Marten. I'm glad their friendship isn't ruined. Can't wait for tomorrow's comic.

god sometimes reading this thread is like pulling out every single one of my teeth slowly, but i can't stop. it's an addiction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 16 Dec 2010, 11:00
I glanced through that article but it seems to be that it would be more applicable to a body of work where the author is unable to provide any information on that work.

But I get the general point. Words can have different meanings so anyone can interpret them as they see fit. As a result, it's not right to say any one person's interpretation of a literary work is wrong, no matter what that interpretation is.

I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation (as does the author), but I guess it's nice in that this article can defend anyone's thoughts on any literary work.

EDIT: I will note that you say the environment is designed for such discussions, and I do agree, but we've seen that such talk is somewhat limited. The wildest interpretations have not been treated kindly here.

If the weather is as shitty as they claim on the news this coming Saturday, I'll have nothing better to do, so I'll take the time to go through and dig up the specific comic entries that formed my previous arguments about Marten's character and post them (with the extra-comic references to support my interpretations) since the entire contention people have with what I'm posting is that they just don't reach the same conclusion reading the same comic. If it ends up being sunny out, then I'll be out doing something fun, though.

My only disappointment is that the burbon did not bring him closer to Z̥̗̤͆ͦ̔̋ͬa̲̱͔̎͂l͈̭͍̤̱̞̫̠͖͊ͫ͟g̼̝̃̉͒̓̚o̰͓̞̝͙͓̫̤̝̅̈́̊͆.
His only sanctuary.

Agreeing that this would have been far more amusing.

Read this article (PDF) for a bit more clarity on why that particular argument is fallacious at best

But that article doesn't quite say it's fallacious at best; it presents a comparison and discussion of five or so different points of view on intentionalism, with a clear bias away from actual intentionalism.  It is easy to see how authors can get annoyed at critics when they argue that their work has a different meaning from that they intended, and all the more so when they have been persuaded (as in this case) to explain what the intended meaning is.

Right, I said it is fallacious at best (given the environment this discussion is taking place in, this goes back to the Conduct thread and the other discussion we had about whether the expectation for people to not discuss meanings other than the author's intended one is unreasonable); the fact that you seem to have interpreted the post you quoted to mean that the article linked supported that stance illustrates my own argument quite nicely, though!

Quote
When I started to study Physics at university, I discovered an alternative called Engineering Science, and changed to it.  I did this because it was more closely concerned with the real world I live in.  Similarly, I have little time for this kind of philosophical argument, which I regard rather as a modern-day equivalent of counting the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin.  You may see this as a failing in me - but I think it's not uncommon!

I'm usually the same way, when I'm discussing any topic other than a work of fiction, so it isn't a failing so much as a need to realize that the context for these types of discussions taking place here is actually 100% valid so long as people proposing interpretations are willing to enumerate the points leading up to their conclusions (which I plan to do Saturday at some point, probably late evening unless weather keeps me indoors all day).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 16 Dec 2010, 11:13
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.

I'm afraid such unethical practices are not unheard of in the academiae. For the purpose of making your list of publications look longer than it actually is. I am uncertain as to whether it is illegal, i.e. whether you could be tried for that in a court of law, but it is most certainly frowned upon.

It has been brought to court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogerty_v._Fantasy), in one of the stupider things ever to occur in the judicial system, along with one of the most badass - Fogerty won the case by literally bringing a guitar to the witness stand.


Thanks for the reminder of that - but, since the judge ruled that Mr. Fogerty was indeed drawing inspiration from himself and that this was perfectly permissable it ain't plagarism.

And as for padding your list of published works, that would be something completely different from plagarism (copying other's ideas without properly crediting them, theft for the literal minded).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 16 Dec 2010, 11:17

Odin, I didn't mean to say that your interpretations are wild if that's how you took the end of my post there. I understand that you have your reasons for coming to the conclusions you did, hence the 'respectful' disagreement.

I'll admit, I'm curious to see more on that though, so here's hoping you find the time to elaborate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: galarant on 16 Dec 2010, 11:20
w00t Faye minus bra again!

I think Jeph is having too much fun drawing that  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 16 Dec 2010, 11:25
Owls??!

The Owls??

Why is it I suddenly have the theme from Twin Peaks running though my head.

"The Owls are not what they seem."    :-D



And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: shengokai on 16 Dec 2010, 11:30
Quote
You forget: Women have a weak spot. If grabbed on the upper arm by a man, they are incapacitated.

I dunno man, having been a practicing martial artist for some 19 years, I know some female practitioners who treat that as their "berserk button". I've seen one practitioner straight up drive a "date" into the ground because he tried to "escort" her away. She damn near broke his wrist IIRC.

Anyway, about the Faye/Marten mishmash that happened previous strip: that was, indeed, the only way that situation could turn out. Marten was drinking, had a lot of repressed anger, and it was going to come out on someone. I figured it would be Faye because Dora's not coming back, and Faye made a point to check on him. Given their pre-history, I expected something like this.

I also expected Faye to knock his block off at some point or another, because Marten's been riding the drunk-train to fucksvilel, and Faye knows where that kind of crap leads. Also, "reformed-Faye" still resorts to violence as a means to force someone to shape up: if she wasn't going to hit him, she might have slapped him into reality, verbally or physically. Either way, it was coming.

That being said, did Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra? Or maybe I like the whole "pajama pants and tank top look". PAGING  DR. FREUD!

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Goddamnit guys!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 11:34
And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.

Shhh - don't go overboard! :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 16 Dec 2010, 11:37
Ahhh, beat to the link!  Coises.

'Tis a favorite of mine.  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 16 Dec 2010, 11:37
And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.

Shhh - don't go overboard! :wink:

I love how every time I refresh the page, your icon is different.  That's such a cool script.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 16 Dec 2010, 11:38
And Braless Faye - Fanservice Rulz.

Shhh - don't go overboard! :wink:

What, me??!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 11:43
It is intended as a general comment; sorry if it appears I misunderstood you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mustakyy on 16 Dec 2010, 11:45
D'awwww. For a loooooong time, it was so good to read todays strip, which didnt include huge amounts of drama/misery/sadness, but what actually made me smile.

In my opinion, thats what you call true friendship. Being there for each other in time of need (and maybe occasionally decking someone out, to stop them doing something they would surely regret  :wink:). And NOT rubbing his nose in it, after the fumes had dissolved from Mr Suuure-I-Can-Drink-the-Whole-Bottle's head. Call me a big ol' softy, but DAMN, that was simply heartwarming. And also, damn those evil owls.  :-D  :-D (Yea, i got the same feeling as some forumites here, that Marten knows somethings up, but has the sense to leave it be and trust Faye on this one)

But the darker side in me is wondering, will Marten do something to one of the key players in the whole shenanigans. Pintsize. The evil lil bastard, who didnt start the whole fiasco, but surely was a major contributor. Shall we see some kind of retribution, something like  new OS (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=639), some help with blogging (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=466) or maybe some breakfast service duty (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=464)? Any guesses?

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Hooboy, not this again.....
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 11:49
That's such a cool script.

Barely even a script.  In a VirtualHost section of my Apache httpd.conf, I have:
Code: [Select]
    RewriteMap AviFile rnd:C:/WebPages/cassland.org/html/images/Avatars/AviList.txt
    RewriteRule /images/QCavi.jpg /images/Avatars/${AviFile:QClist}.jpg
AviList.txt contains lists of files, one of which is labelled QClist.  The only restriction is that all the files need to be the same type so that Apache can send the right metadata (which is matched to the file type in the request).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 11:58
You're right, but surely it's better to at least glance at the article before replying about it?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Smoot on 16 Dec 2010, 12:11
I want to take a second and thank Jeph for clarifying what he doesn't like about the forums, rather than just leaving it be with "These forums!" and a shload of pokemon.

Seriously- before I joined the forums, all I knew about 'em was that he hates them. It's pretty much the first thing a non-fan or new fan hears about when they look into the comic's creator. It said so on the caption under QC Forums. It's referred to in the topquote of the Trope page, last I checked. Pretty much the first thing I saw when I got here was Jeph trolling his own forums.

I kinda got the idea he was slightly upset about something. A little. It was a rather subtle hint, but it got through.
Good to know what it is, instead of just... whatever all that was supposed to do.

Also, I'm kind of old-fashioned, but I believe in authors. When an author says "this is what I meant by that", or "That's not what I intended", I am usually going to take the author's word for it. (Exception: Fahrenheit 451 and Ray Bradbury. ;)). When someone thinks they know the story better than the guy who's actually telling it, I tend to think that other guy should shove off and go tell a story himself if he knows so much. (This is in no way impinging on interpretation of how society influences authors- but when it comes to stories currently being told, I stick to 'listen to/read/watch it first, before picking it to shreds, and assume competence on the creator's part" as a default.

 Anyway, Owls, and Not-Dead Marten. Moving on:

That was about the most just, friend-like thing Faye could've done under the circumstances. I'm not disposed to take "...but I was drunk!" as a pass on things, but from what was depicted, Marten was drinking way outside his weight class, and probably wasn't even aware of what he was saying or doing. (Whether he 'really meant' them or not is up in the air, but my main thing is- I'm with Faye on this one, it was a spectacularly dumb thing to do.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 16 Dec 2010, 12:20
I've spent the entire day in bed with a high grade fever, so this is really the first chance I've had to read the comic, and all I can say is....

Owl attack, hungover and Veronica has probably landed at the airport.....Today is going to be a veeeeeeeeeeeery long day for our young mister Reed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 12:29
Thank you for your comments. It is not the comic as much as the discussion here that bothers me. As this situation is too triggering and all of the "any reasonable/rational/sane" statements are the main cause, I will disengage from this thread.

Heh, congrats, you're in the same boat as Jeph. ;)  :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 12:33
Quote
Also, have I gone mad or was that Wednesday's comic? With finals this week, I've completely lost track.

Could be, I've only had about three hours sleep since Monday so the last day has been kind of a blur.

You mean like this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1696)?  :-P

Why did I know what strip you were linking to before I even clicked on the link?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skelepunk on 16 Dec 2010, 12:33
That being said, did Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra? Or maybe I like the whole "pajama pants and tank top look". PAGING  DR. FREUD!
You were repressed as a child, always made to wear very formal clothes, even to bed, by your opposite sex parent.And so, in your adulthood, you are attracted to the "messy" type. This is completely opposite to your parent because you deny your sexual feelings for that parent. You have repressed this therefore. And you can't deny it, for the theory is unfalsifiable. Even though repression doesn't actually happen;there are many proofs that people with "repressed" memories are forgetful and prone to suggestive questioning.

*Not to nag on Sigmund-he did a lot for Psychology, and he practically invented the idea of the subconscious, but some of his ideas could have used a bit of unbiased peer review.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 12:38
See, that was the problem: Siggy didn't have any peers to review his theories.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skelepunk on 16 Dec 2010, 12:41
He had a few;Jung comes to mind. But as I recall, they had a bit of a falling out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ink slinger on 16 Dec 2010, 12:48
*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
John Fogerty was once sued for essentially plagiarizing himself. The courts found in his favour, so I suspect that you are correct.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Nodaisho on 16 Dec 2010, 12:49
So, anyone able to figure out what Rays on Pinion has to do with this strip? Was it what he was listening to when he finished drawing, or is it something more? I've heard the song, but I can't figure out how it fits the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 13:01
Pinions are a type of feather, found on bird wings.

Including the wings of Owls.

Rays are for rays of sunshine, the clear morning sunshine of a new day after a very dark night.

Rays on Pinion, sunshine on the wing, flying into a new day after clobbering a drunk in the night...

I dunno, just talking out my hat.

Ask the author.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Nodaisho on 16 Dec 2010, 13:05
I hadn't remember what pinions were (I always hear them referred to as pinfeathers), that makes sense. Rays on Pinion is a Baroness song, and if I remember right Jeph put the album that it was on on his top 10 for the year it came out. That would be enough of a link for a comic title, I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ducktape on 16 Dec 2010, 13:06
A very nice thing for Faye to do, given the circumstances.  Marten probably doesn't remember and probably never will - drinking that much bourbon and getting knocked down would do that to you - and this way Faye can bring it up later on her own terms when Marten is in more of a state to discuss it (i.e. Not Hung Over).

I have a feeling we won't see Veronica tomorrow. I think a cliffhanger is much more likely, given that it's Friday and it's Jeph we're talking about.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
O noes.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 16 Dec 2010, 13:38
Friday:

marten eating a banana. pintsize shows up and slips on the peel.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 16 Dec 2010, 13:43

And as for padding your list of published works, that would be something completely different from plagarism (copying other's ideas without properly crediting them, theft for the literal minded).

That is the old problem. A more recent problem has been researchers publishing nearly identical pieces of one's own work in many places. Obviously with altered titles. Other related problems also have emerged, and the community is discussing ethical guidelines...

@The Duke. Thanks for the link. Will read it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: galarant on 16 Dec 2010, 13:47
Quote
did Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra?

I think they are just gaining mass over time, regardless. Remember when she was first introduced to the strip? She has gone from an A-cup to a D-cup in about 3 years! If this trend continues she is going to start developing back problems pretty soon...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 16 Dec 2010, 13:48
Owls??!

The Owls??

Why is it I suddenly have the theme from Twin Peaks running though my head.

"The Owls are not what they seem."    :-D


Ninja'd you!

But what are these space owls that some people speak about :? Ok. I will google it one of these days.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 13:52
Space Owl (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=150).

It's been linked twice already today.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 16 Dec 2010, 14:02
The real question is why the Space Owls attacked.
Marten wasn't exceptionally dressed.

Unless their minds have evolved to understand the great importance of the Worry Hat. In which case, DEAR GOD
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 16 Dec 2010, 14:11
I just got back from Mass A Chew Shits where I spy'd on Jeph's super-secret script-writing process using some kind of SCIENCE!.   


Tomorrow's comic:   Martin hugs Faye:  "Thank you for getting me to bed after I passed out"     DORA WALKS IN and here "*static* me -- bed *static* I passed out *static*"  sees them embracing and HELLA DRAMA happens.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 14:30
Somehow I don't think Marten's ready to be anywhere he might meet Dora just yet.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ducktape on 16 Dec 2010, 14:31
I just got back from Mass A Chew Shits where I spy'd on Jeph's super-secret script-writing process using some kind of SCIENCE!.   


Tomorrow's comic:   Martin hugs Faye:  "Thank you for getting me to bed after I passed out"     DORA WALKS IN and here "*static* me -- bed *static* I passed out *static*"  sees them embracing and HELLA DRAMA happens.


You mean something along the lines of http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742)?
@pwhodges you raise an excellent point.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 16 Dec 2010, 15:07
You mean something along the lines of http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742)?


Yup.    :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ducktape on 16 Dec 2010, 15:20
You mean something along the lines of http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742)?


Yup.    :-P
Given that she couldn't imply breakup-potential (obviously), would she threaten to fire Faye (again) or just fume in ineffectual rage? I think it would be more along the lines of jumping to conclusions, saying "Fuck it" and leaving.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 15:43
Ahem. 

She sent Sven to get her things. 

She's not going anywhere near  the apartment for quite a while, methinks. 

Salt in a fresh wound, and all that. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 16 Dec 2010, 16:05
On a purely technical note, that is a truly wonderful drawing of Faye in panel 2. I like it when Jeph does close-ups like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: charybdis on 16 Dec 2010, 16:07
We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone.  Maybe it IS me.   :psyduck:

Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.

I am not necessarily all about Vashj'ir, but I loved running around fightan naga on my seahorse and how Goddamn pretty it was. It didn't really get repetitive till right near the end, and even then, I could stand it, especially with the culmination.

Archaeology, on the other hand, has me punching small animals right alongside ye, but I can't stop what is wrong with me

I  am all about Vashj'ir. I love it so. So pretty. Can't wait until I get my new computer. Going to set the graphics on Ultra and just run around there for a few days, ogling stuff.
Admittedly, the whole running-around-inside-a-giant-seabeast's-sinus-cavities quest chain(s) did weird me out a bit.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Damnitall
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Dec 2010, 16:21
Please be more selective with your quoting - we don't need to reread everything, just enough to provide context for your reply.  Thanks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 16 Dec 2010, 16:30

You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy.


Isn't one of the defining features of the Nice Guy (as opposed to the nice guy) that he wants romantic interest from a woman who is only interested in him platonically?  If so, then I can't agree with your assessment, because it's made very clear that Faye was interested in Marten romantically.  It didn't work out due to her issues, and they've both moved on from that romantic interest.  Still, there's a big difference between thinking that a platonic friend owes you romantic interest, and hoping that a romantic friend will one day overcome her issues and pursue a functional relationship with you.  Only the former is creepy; the latter is, at worse, hopelessly optimistic.

Citation time!
#64 - Steve is convinced that Faye is interested in Marten
#83 - Dora is convinced that Faye is interested in Marten
#118 - Faye creatively dodges the question of whether or not she's interested in Marten
#220 - Faye gets upset when Marten goes out with Dora on the double date with Steve and Ellen
#567 - Faye tells Marten that she's upset by the fact that it's him and Dora who wound up together, not him and herself
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 16:40
Irony at work: I decided to hit the "random" button after perusing today's comic one last time.

It forwarded me to #75 - Dora's first appearance.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurefirem on 16 Dec 2010, 17:12
Is it just me or do Faye's boobs seem huge today?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2010, 17:15
Is it just me or do Faye's boobs seem huge today?

It's just you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: azurefirem on 16 Dec 2010, 17:16
Is it just me or do Faye's boobs seem huge today?

It's just you.

*shrug*
Either way, I like them a little smaller.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 16 Dec 2010, 17:19
That said... Veronica is coming to town very soon. She may well see the lump on his head, and start asking questions. Then things will get interesting...
or explodey
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 16 Dec 2010, 17:37
Nobody expects a priest to flip off someone on the highway.

o god now i want to see that :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Fenriswolf on 16 Dec 2010, 17:42
You know, I believe the argument wrt sexual assault is not that Marten did, or was going to, assault or rape Faye. But rather that rape starting in exactly this kind of situation is extremely common, so it's not a big surprise that a woman would react as Faye did (regardless of her usual excessive use of force).

A man does not necessarily have to be bigger or stronger than a woman for her to freeze in fear, no matter how out of character that may be seen for that particular woman. And a vast majority of rapists are people who are well known for being really good guys who would never do that. And they possibly are really good guys, outside of being rapists. That doesn't change the reality of their actions.

/rant
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Superkid11 on 16 Dec 2010, 17:49
Well yeah, just as people can say horrible things when they're horribly drunk they can also... do horrible things when they're horribly drunk.

Marten wasn't going to but it was good to be safe. Not like she shot him or anything.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Sorflakne on 16 Dec 2010, 17:55
Owls?  This looks like a job for the owl exterminators!

(http://tewan.info/owlexter.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 16 Dec 2010, 18:00
Friday:

marten eating a banana. pintsize shows up and slips on the peel.  :psyduck:

woo old cartoon humor, do very much want
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 16 Dec 2010, 18:11
Quote
did Jeph enhance Faye's assets while she was in the tank top? Do her breasts suddenly gain mass sans bra?

I think they are just gaining mass over time, regardless. Remember when she was first introduced to the strip? She has gone from an A-cup to a D-cup in about 3 years! If this trend continues she is going to start developing back problems pretty soon...

do not impugn the size of her bosom in the early comics, they were no mere A-cups, they have been rather large since the start
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iconoclast on 16 Dec 2010, 19:24
Quote
You forget: Women have a weak spot. If grabbed on the upper arm by a man, they are incapacitated.

I dunno man, having been a practicing martial artist for some 19 years, I know some female practitioners who treat that as their "berserk button". I've seen one practitioner straight up drive a "date" into the ground because he tried to "escort" her away. She damn near broke his wrist IIRC.

I've been reading too much Harry Dresden; practitioner means something completely different to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: El_Flesh on 16 Dec 2010, 21:54
I really liked the drunk episode.  Say what you want about it being better not to talk when drunk; but
truth comes out with alcohol. He paves the way for other dudes. Being the good guy.
Faye gets pissed at hearing the truth. Then when he proposes what he really wants, she punches him.

I've been in this kind of place before. He needs to get rid of Faye. She will only cause him pain, and eventually, will go off with
whomever she thinks she should be with at a time convenient for HER instead of him. He will then never hear from her again.
His life is on hold until then. Dora was right after all. Faye is a parasite on Marten's good nature. It's very hard to turn your back
on someone you want to love so badly, but he has to do it for his own good.

Hope to hell he doesn't wind up in bed with Hannelore or Marigold. THAT would be a huge mistake.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: rje on 16 Dec 2010, 21:55
I don't know why, but when I read the last two panels of the current comic I blinked and then cackled like a hyena on crack, and QC hasn't made me do that for a long time (usually a chuckle or a grin and laugh but hahaha omg OWLS lololol - I think it was her expression that mostly did it.)
Then I read it again and laughed some more, and now I feel great. Thanks Jeph!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Nodaisho on 16 Dec 2010, 21:56
Say what you want about it being better not to talk when drunk; but truth comes out with alcohol.
No it doesn't. In vino veritas is an old saying, but old doesn't mean true.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: johnny5 on 16 Dec 2010, 21:56
omg faye's juicers are huge, serious F cups
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 16 Dec 2010, 22:13
Juicers? That's a new one to me.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 22:26
Say what you want about it being better not to talk when drunk; but truth comes out with alcohol.
No it doesn't. In vino veritas is an old saying, but old doesn't mean true.

It doesn't mean false, either, and in this case, it's very much a mix. It's very hard to lie convincingly when drunk, and many times people forget to tell the lies they usually tell people. Alcohol impairs the ability to choose carefully what you want to say, and sometimes that means saying the truth when you didn't intend to. However, it also can cause you to speak unclearly or say things in a way that distorts meaning, or think things that you would dismiss when sober because they're stupid, and then say them out loud. However, you're still YOU when you're drunk, no matter how intoxicated you are, and you still have to think the thoughts you're saying out loud.

Listening to a recording of yourself when you're very drunk can be quite enlightening. But you shouldn't take what other people say drunk at face value.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Superkid11 on 16 Dec 2010, 23:03
However, you're still YOU when you're drunk
Even after a whole bottle of burbon?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 23:06
If I hear this Goddamn in vino veritas thing one more time--

Okay, look, Boomslang kind of has the right idea. Alcohol, being brain poison, makes what cones out of your mouth 89% drunken horseshit, 18% amplified neuroses and fears, 0.9% past bad experiences as justification for fears. The remainder is the actual truth. The "truth" you think is there is your fears and neuroses and all your negativity unfurling like an ugly flower, and it is fed by poison.

This doesn't mean you're not responsible for your actions or speech. But it does mean that you are not on truth serum!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ecstaticjoy on 16 Dec 2010, 23:11
Yay, Faye's scar...and is it just me, or are her boobs extra-huge in panel one?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 23:16
OK, three posts showed up and 2 of them were about this topic, but I'm posting anyway...

There's a good bit of truth to what boomslang is saying, but there's also the fact that you're not completely  you when you're very  drunk.  Remember, vino  is wine, and bourbon, tequila, and anything else distilled is a hell  of a lot stronger, getting you much more drunk than wine could in a much shorter amount of time.  Alcohol is a nervous system depressant, literally slowing nerve signals to a crawl and killing some pathways off for good (hence the memory loss).  

When you're that impaired, parts of your personality are completely shut off.  We're not just talking inhibitions, we're talking rational thought processes, emotional reactions, all sorts of things that stop functioning correctly or even completely.  The things you think at this level of inebriation are not your normal thoughts.  This is why so many bad decisions are made drunk, and I'm not just talking tattoos.  People die from decisions made drunk.  

Now, tipsy, buzzed, happy, whatever you call it when you're a little drunk (like after a few glasses of wine), there you'll find more truth.  You're still basically yourself, just with slower reactions, and slower thought processes.  Things aren't shutting down, but the thoughts and emotions that keep some things in check are slowed, and you'll say and do things you normally wouldn't, but that have been in the back of your conscious mind.  You may even gain some access to the subconscious, but that's the slower thought process talking - your mind finally slows to the speed of your mouth, and you can really say what you're thinking while you think it.  Before the checks and balances kick in.  It's a weird feeling, too, because you know  it's happening at the time.  

Then you drink more, because you think it will enhance this more.  And that's when stuff shuts down and trouble starts.  

[/sermonette].  We now return you to your regularly scheduled idiocy.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 16 Dec 2010, 23:17
However, you're still YOU when you're drunk
Even after a whole bottle of burbon?

Alcohol doesn't put someone else inside your head, no matter how much you drink. It can only diminish or enhance what's already in there.

Marten was already in kind of a dickish mood- look at the way he talked to Tai, while dead sober, earlier at the library. In retrospect, it's not that suprising that when he got drunk while in such a funk, he continued in the same vein, just magnified and without working brakes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Dec 2010, 23:38
The issue here is that some fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it. I don't know why they would, or even if that is a sincere desire, but that is the impression I get.

To these people: why? Why do you want him to have meant that?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 16 Dec 2010, 23:55
Owls??!

The Owls??

Why is it I suddenly have the theme from Twin Peaks running though my head.

"The Owls are not what they seem."    :-D


Ninja'd you!

But what are these space owls that some people speak about :? Ok. I will google it one of these days.

 Great...I'd managed to forget that quote from TP. Now every time I hear an owl here (and they are fricken *loud*!) I'm going to think about it...!

/lives in one of the Twin Peaks towns.  8-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 17 Dec 2010, 00:19
Space Owl (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=150).

It's been linked twice already today.

Very sorry about that. I do remember that incident involving agent Turing, but didn't remember the 'space' -part. I somehow thought that
 

Mea culpa.

for counter:=1 to 50 do
 writeln('do not post after your bedtimeparticularly not after being irritated at yourself after butchering a number of bridge hands');
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Jedit on 17 Dec 2010, 00:23
Yay, Faye's scar...

Please, please, save me having to re-read 1700 strips and remind me where that comes from?  I was going to ask, but you seem to know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 17 Dec 2010, 00:30
The issue here is that some fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it. I don't know why they would, or even if that is a sincere desire, but that is the impression I get.

To these people: why? Why do you want him to have meant that?

Because it could mean him finally getting some of the shit he may be (admittedly assumed from an exterior flawed perspective) subconsciously repressing out of his system and finally on the way to not just being a passive doormat (AKA "Nice Guy").

It's either release it this way, or he gets to keep letting himself get shat on until he blows up in a manner that is unrecoverable from.


Edit:

/snipped

Twin Peaks

I'd ask if I would be considered juvenile for connecting this phrase with Faye's, um, assets.....but I already know the answer to that.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 17 Dec 2010, 00:59
--Thanks, mom, but no.

--But...

NO!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Dec 2010, 01:01
Awww, gee, mom.  I appreciate the thought...

I think...

cue a long discussion over the weekend about whether Ms. Reed was being literal... or even serious. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 17 Dec 2010, 01:04
Not exactly digging the new look. It's definitely better drawn, but it looks very different.

At least she's letting Marten decide whether she kills Dora or not, right?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 01:05
Yay, Faye's scar...

Please, please, save me having to re-read 1700 strips and remind me where that comes from?  I was going to ask, but you seem to know.

Read back just a few posts* and find a list of links to where it's come up before and been explained; also the wiki (http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_Wiki) (there's a link in the Welcome thread no); also Jeph's put a list of comics on his twitter.

* OK, quite a lot of posts - here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25662.msg992729.html#msg992729)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Near Lurker on 17 Dec 2010, 01:06
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 17 Dec 2010, 01:09
[oldJewishmom] Sons these days, they're so unappreciative! Look at this boy, she offers to kill for 'im and all he can think of is the trouble he'd be in! And she probably had such a nice slow death planned for Dora too! Oy, and he probably wouldn't call 'er in prison either...[/oldJewishmom]

@Overkillengine: So, the best way for Marten to start taking control of his life and asserting himself more is to insult, slut-shame, and belittle his best friend? Is that what you're saying?

(The idea that Faye is a malignant parasite is so laughable I won't even engage it, so if that's the crux of your thought...welp.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kazukagii on 17 Dec 2010, 01:10
Okay, Marten's face in panel two made me lose it. Reminds me of when I made a deadpan offer to kill my sister's ex-boyfriend, and she gave me the same horrified look.

Not to mention, isn't that a mother who loves her son!? Willing to spend the rest of her life in prison just to help her son. Now THAT is love.  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Yellowstone on 17 Dec 2010, 01:11
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...

Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s.  I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 01:15
a passive doormat (AKA "Nice Guy").

This stereotype is being waved around far too much it seems to me; in any case, "Nice Guy" is used in so many rather contradictory ways that it fails even as a stereotype.

Quote
I'd ask if I would be considered juvenile for connecting this phrase with Faye's, um, assets.....but I already know the answer to that.  :-D

Then why bring it up, if that's not how you want  to be considered?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Method of Madness on 17 Dec 2010, 01:16
Then why bring it up, if that's not how you want  to be considered?
Probably because it's funny. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 17 Dec 2010, 01:17
I was going to say it, but Yellowstone beat me to it. She looks more matronly this way, though. I miss her red necklace, but one's outfits change, of course.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 01:17
I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.

Marianne Faithful's mother was still getting wolf-whistles (remember them?) in the street in her late 50s.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 17 Dec 2010, 01:20

@Overkillengine: So, the best way for Marten to start taking control of his life and asserting himself more is to insult, slut-shame, and belittle his best friend? Is that what you're saying?

(The idea that Faye is a malignant parasite is so laughable I won't even engage it, so if that's the crux of your thought...welp.)

No, but thanks for the assumption.  Made me feel warm and fuzzy! :-P

It's not the best step, but it is at least a step at all.

Even if unjustified, the outburst can be reflecting something he's been feeling. And being able to express something (however negatively) at all, is an improvement over just sitting on it until it comes out in a truly destructive manner.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Overkillengine on 17 Dec 2010, 01:21
Then why bring it up, if that's not how you want  to be considered?
Probably because it's funny. :mrgreen:

At least to me. I can't promise to please everyone else.


a passive doormat (AKA "Nice Guy").

This stereotype is being waved around far too much it seems to me; in any case, "Nice Guy" is used in so many rather contradictory ways that it fails even as a stereotype.


Shrug. Closest fit. I could have typed up an entire paragraph, or in the interests of brevity, used a simple phrase that maybe not perfectly describes a fictional character's traits as it relates to real world social dynamics. (Yes, using big words make me feel smartier)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 17 Dec 2010, 01:31
In the last panel Marten's reaching back to slip a note into his mother's hand with Sven's address and details about Dora's routine on it. He just didn't want possible witnesses hearing him tell   Veronica that he wanted Dora dead; that would make him an accomplice!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 17 Dec 2010, 01:43
Clever boy. [/Muldoon]
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: O8h7w on 17 Dec 2010, 01:47
In the last panel Marten's reaching back to slip a note into his mother's hand with Sven's address and details about Dora's routine on it. He just didn't want possible witnesses hearing him tell   Veronica that he wanted Dora dead; that would make him an accomplice!

About your hilarious theories, my dear iduguphergrave, I don't know whether I should call them the worst or the best...  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 17 Dec 2010, 01:48
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.


Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.


And joking about murder is all fine, but Martens mon seems to be serious, which, to be honest, makes it way unfunny.


Also, I am highly irritated by people who believe alcohol would be a truth serum. Its a poison that shuts off important parts of your brain, the more you drink.

And right the first one to go is your good judgement, really.

As a result, you get all kinds of stupid ideas. Including really stupid interpretations of your current situation. I dont consider those ideas "truth". Unless you are very negative about life in general, of course.



Juicers? That's a new one to me.  :-P
Me too. Makes little sense, too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Delator on 17 Dec 2010, 01:49
Marten's expression in the last panel is pure gold.

First Faye, then his mom...

...I think Dora still owes Marten free baked goods. He did save her life twice. :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 17 Dec 2010, 01:50
I think we were expecting laugh lines, not cheek indentations.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 17 Dec 2010, 01:52
I've been in this kind of place before. He needs to get rid of Faye. She will only cause him pain, and eventually, will go off with whomever she thinks she should be with at a time convenient for HER instead of him. He will then never hear from her again. His life is on hold until then. Dora was right after all. Faye is a parasite on Marten's good nature. It's very hard to turn your back on someone you want to love so badly, but he has to do it for his own good.
Wow, everything is clear to me now. Y'know, I think you should so have this passage printed on little cards with your name and contact number on the other side, and hand them out to girls you're interested in. Encourage your friends to get sets printed too, to hand out to their prospective security-blankets...

Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Dec 2010, 01:58
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

Hey, if you want something done right...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 17 Dec 2010, 02:01
Yay, Faye's scar...

Please, please, save me having to re-read 1700 strips and remind me where that comes from?  I was going to ask, but you seem to know.
Well, purely from memory: Faye's scar is a reoccuring theme of many strips.

It first appeared somewhen around 300 and 400, before the big relevation in 500. It then appeared another or even two times before said relevation, each time Faye was explaining more about it. Turns out she had a car accident when she had a nervous breakdown. And in the big relevation of 500, she explains why she had said breakdown.



[...] Hannermom would just hire an assassin.
Honestly ? I doubt that. She's the kind of person that would do that one herself. And ENJOY it. Hannermom wouldnt want to get catched and wouldnt accept to go to jail, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 17 Dec 2010, 02:05
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

Hell, she may even be the assassin Hannermom would call.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: O8h7w on 17 Dec 2010, 02:09
This thread may break the record for hilarious theories...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 17 Dec 2010, 02:37
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.


Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.

Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.

People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.

And for the record, she looks fine to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 17 Dec 2010, 02:51
That was one page ago, but there is something I want to say about that


You may want to take your own advice and go back to the very beginning of the comic, read the first, oh, 500 strips or so and then come back and seriously post that Marten did not start off in the comic as the stereotypical Nice Guy.


Isn't one of the defining features of the Nice Guy (as opposed to the nice guy) that he wants romantic interest from a woman who is only interested in him platonically?  If so, then I can't agree with your assessment, because it's made very clear that Faye was interested in Marten romantically.  It didn't work out due to her issues, and they've both moved on from that romantic interest.  Still, there's a big difference between thinking that a platonic friend owes you romantic interest, and hoping that a romantic friend will one day overcome her issues and pursue a functional relationship with you.  Only the former is creepy; the latter is, at worse, hopelessly optimistic.

Citation time!
#64 - Steve is convinced that Faye is interested in Marten
#83 - Dora is convinced that Faye is interested in Marten
#118 - Faye creatively dodges the question of whether or not she's interested in Marten
#220 - Faye gets upset when Marten goes out with Dora on the double date with Steve and Ellen
#567 - Faye tells Marten that she's upset by the fact that it's him and Dora who wound up together, not him and herself

You should distinguish between someone "wanting romantic interest from a platonic friend" and someone "expecting romantic interest from a platonic friend / thinking the other person owes you that"

I think many if not most people at least once fell in love with a good friend already. The difference here between the two things is the first will accept if the other person just wants to be a friend (even though he/she probably can't just shut off his/her feelings for the other one) while the second won't accept it, maybe start yelling, cut off contact or whatever else.

Aside from that, I agree that Faye did have romantic feelings for him and just didn't do anything because of her issues.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Pika_power on 17 Dec 2010, 03:19
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.


Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.

Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.

People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
That'd be a fair enough argument, but it's previously been stated by characters in-strip that she's attractive. Yes, she's not bad for someone who's 50-60. She's supposed to look good enough for Dora to still find her attractive. Considering she's still a porn star, it's not ridiculous to expect her to still look good. So far, that's assuming we haven't seen her before. But we have, and in the strips we did see, she was looking significantly better.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 17 Dec 2010, 03:22
To me the definition of a "nice guy" is a guy who is only interested in longtime, true relationships, and not interested in one night stands and such.

Another term I heard for this kind of basic behavior is "real man". :-D In contrast to the playBOY. :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Olymander on 17 Dec 2010, 03:24
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.


Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.

Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.

People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.

And for the record, she looks fine to me.

She looks mostly fine to me, the only thing I find bugging me is that her cheeks seem a little too puffed out.  Basically her face looks a little fat.  If they weren't quite so puffy, I'd be happier.  But that's just an aesthetic nitpick.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cesariojpn on 17 Dec 2010, 03:59
Holy shit, what the hell happened to Veronica Vance?

Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.

People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.

And for the record, she looks fine to me.

To compare:

* Porn Actress and "Sexpert" Nina Hartley is 51 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Hartley). Of course, she didn't quite look her best in the Surrender of O, but I digress........
* Porn Star and Fetish Model Ashley Renee is 45. (NSFW link!!) (http://www.ashleyrenee.com/bio.html)
* Porn Star Ona Zee is 56. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ona_Zee)

...and thats the three oldest BDSM/Fetish folks that I can figure off the top of my head right now over 45. I think Veronica has let herself go abit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 04:25
To me the definition of a "nice guy" is a guy who is only interested in longtime, true relationships, and not interested in one night stands and such.

Another term I heard for this kind of basic behavior is "real man". :-D In contrast to the playBOY. :wink:

Did you not bother to read the articles I linked in the other "Nice Guy" discussion that was earlier in this thread? Here they are again, anyway, with some extras!

Here's a self-professed Nice Guy's convenient website for hilarious misogyny: http://www.the-niceguy.com/

And here is a nice, compiled listing of essays and articles from the other side of the issue: http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

She looks mostly fine to me, the only thing I find bugging me is that her cheeks seem a little too puffed out.  Basically her face looks a little fat.  If they weren't quite so puffy, I'd be happier.  But that's just an aesthetic nitpick.

Do her cheek bones make her face resemble those old dolls that are stored in glass jars with cork caps to anyone else?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 17 Dec 2010, 04:46
the only reason people arnt happy with VV's new look are those who wanted a fanservice and are fap happy.
(http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/067/545/original/fap_fap_fap.png?1282762837)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 17 Dec 2010, 04:56
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

Hey, if you want something done right...

You hire a professional. 

Amateurs might get it right, but more often than not screw something up.

Think back to your last home improvement job....or tax return.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: muscardinus on 17 Dec 2010, 05:01
As a result, you get all kinds of stupid ideas. Including really stupid interpretations of your current situation. I dont consider those ideas "truth". Unless you are very negative about life in general, of course.

I agree, and I think that what Martin said was based on truth, but interpreted in the worst possible way. And I highly doubt that he really thinks of the situation this way.

Marten's expression in the last panel is pure gold.

First Faye, then his mom...

...I think Dora still owes Marten free baked goods. He did save her life twice. :-P

I think the next poll should be "Who will threaten Dora with violence/death next ?"  :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Dec 2010, 05:20
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

Hey, if you want something done right...

You hire a professional. 

Amateurs might get it right, but more often than not screw something up.

Think back to your last home improvement job....or tax return.

I do both myself, thank you.  I do  need to redo the kitchen floor again, though - the dog decided to try to dig up the tiles in the corner...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 17 Dec 2010, 05:29
Generally I do as well, but let's face it there are some things that a lot people make mistakes in and assassination is one of them. 

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ducktape on 17 Dec 2010, 05:33
Generally I do as well, but let's face it there are some things that a lot people make mistakes in and assassination is one of them. 


Yes. Assassination is one of those things that should be labeled "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME UNLESS YOU ARE A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL" on TV.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 17 Dec 2010, 05:48
Still Marten's mom was thinking of an amateur job, do it, and give herself in, so no one would suspect on Marten.... If she was a pro, she would do it so no one ever discovered the real victimary.
"The perfect crime is not the one that goes unsolved, but the one that is solved with the wrong culprit." <- that's from a book, but i don't recall the title of it...


Here's a self-professed Nice Guy's convenient website for hilarious misogyny: http://www.the-niceguy.com/
:psyduck: Is that site serious? I get that it's all a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 05:57
Still Marten's mom was thinking of an amateur job, do it, and give herself in, so no one would suspect on Marten.... If she was a pro, she would do it so no one ever discovered the real victimary.
"The perfect crime is not the one that goes unsolved, but the one that is solved with the wrong culprit." <- that's from a book, but i don't recall the title of it...


Here's a self-professed Nice Guy's convenient website for hilarious misogyny: http://www.the-niceguy.com/
:psyduck: Is that site serious? I get that it's all a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke.

That dude was 100% serious at the time he created the website, you missed out on all the original internet drama when it was first posted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Coco on 17 Dec 2010, 06:17
Holy shit, what the hell happened to Veronica Vance?

Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.

People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.

And for the record, she looks fine to me.

I think Veronica has let herself go abit.

Let's not forget that VV has just gotten off of what was likely a red eye flight from the west coast to the east coast. I don't know about you but my face is usually a little puffy after a night of poor and uncomfortable sleep. She probably is also wearing less than her normal amount of make-up, just threw on her lipstick before she got off the plane. There is also now scientific confirmation we are less attractive when we have not had enough sleep. I'll wait to judge until shes spent a night in a hotel and had a shower.

It's a bit unfair to compare her to pictures of models that you pulled off the net. I didn't look at them because I'm at work, but chances are they have had a professional make-up job done, professional hair, and have been airbrushed to the point where their own children won't recognize them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 17 Dec 2010, 06:19
Dear Ms. Vance,

I love you and wish you were my mom.

Love,
Me
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 06:21
My first thought, honestly: "Wow, she doesn't look as good since we last saw her."

Then I recalled how Jeph drew the "old lady witch" back in the Cosette-is-cursed arc. And I figure that Ms. Reed is, very likely, somewhere in her 50's (if not pushing 60).

There is one thing I do notice, though - those eyes. In fact... (scrolling back through ye olde archives) compare that last panel to the first panel in this strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1762).



(quietly hoping I'm not throwing gasoline on the fire with that observation...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 17 Dec 2010, 06:24
There is one thing I do notice, though - those eyes. In fact... (scrolling back through ye olde archives) compare that last panel to the first panel in this strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1762).
Whoa, those eyes really look alike!!

That dude was 100% serious at the time he created the website, you missed out on all the original internet drama when it was first posted.
Oh, i'm glad i missed out all that. I just tried to read some of the post... And now i only feel like punching someone in the crotch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 06:27
Step 2 on the road back to Normalcy Recovery:

Pintsize/Winslow joke.    - 4 (3.6%)
Hannelore trying something new.    - 5 (4.5%)
Faye actually being NICE to a customer.    - 1 (0.9%)
Dora actually going to therapy.    - 22 (20%)
Marigold emerging from her Cataclysm-induced hermit cave.    - 15 (13.6%)
Yelling Bird!    - 2 (1.8%)
Randy vs. Shelby!    - 4 (3.6%)
Cosette has her hand in a cast - but why?    - 4 (3.6%)
Tai visits with Dora - and Dora shuts her down.    - 3 (2.7%)
Mom finally shows up.    - 41 (37.3%)
Steve finally shows up.    - 7 (6.4%)
Other (within reason, of course).    - 2 (1.8%)

Total Voters: 110
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 06:40
<snip>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Boomslang on 17 Dec 2010, 06:46
I think the key thing that I find different about her appearance is that she looks less like Marten than she did before.

Granted, he's the spitting image of his dad. It's just she looks more like, say, Penelope, than her own child.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 06:47
I think the next poll should be "Who will threaten Dora with violence/death next ?"  :evil:

Nice try for a newbie. I think we might go with that for next week's WCDT.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: muscardinus on 17 Dec 2010, 07:02
I think the next poll should be "Who will threaten Dora with violence/death next ?"  :evil:

Nice try for a newbie. I think we might go with that for next week's WCDT.

Thanks. I've been reading QC since forever, but tried to avoid the forums intill a few weeks ago. But now I can't stay away. This discussions are like a soup-opera  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 17 Dec 2010, 07:11
<snip>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...

...there are people that don't know that one?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 07:12
(Hangs head in shame)

Yes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 17 Dec 2010, 07:21
Yes. Assassination is one of those things that should be labeled "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME UNLESS YOU ARE A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL" on TV.

That would be the best infomercial ever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: snubnose on 17 Dec 2010, 07:25
(Hangs head in shame)

Yes.

(Also hangs his head in shame)

But ... but ... I'm not a native english speaker, after all !
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 07:27
Don't worry, I know a bit of EnglishTM, and that one's passed me by as well until now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 07:31
<snip>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)". Hannermom would just hire an assassin.

I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...

...there are people that don't know that one?

Not everyone has watched, well, any of the hundreds of spy movies ever made, you know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: kent_eh on 17 Dec 2010, 07:40
Hey, already Martens mom. I didnt expected her this week.


Yeah, the artwork is ... very different this time. Much less attractive, too.

Yeah it's almost like she's an aging woman or something.

People were saying this during the broadcast too and it irks me; Jeph's able to draw her more how he sees her in her head, and it's realistic. How do you all think you're going to look when you're in your 50's? (I think it's reasonable to think that's where her age is) Cut the woman some slack.
That'd be a fair enough argument, but it's previously been stated by characters in-strip that she's attractive. Yes, she's not bad for someone who's 50-60. She's supposed to look good enough for Dora to still find her attractive. Considering she's still a porn star, it's not ridiculous to expect her to still look good. So far, that's assuming we haven't seen her before. But we have, and in the strips we did see, she was looking significantly better.

Of course she did just get off a hastily planned overnight flight from the other side of the country.
And she's been worrying about her boy for the past ... what 12-18 hours?

Let's see anyone look their best after that :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 07:41
Not everyone has watched, well, any of the hundreds of spy movies ever made, you know.

Astounding fact of the day:- not all spy movies contain that phrase!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Coco on 17 Dec 2010, 07:47
Wasn't that phrase part of the trailers for the Bruce Willis, Morgan Freeman etc. movie that came out a few months ago? Where Bruce says Helen Mirren is the best wet worker in the business? I would think most people with a television in their home would know the phrase after how heavily that s**t show movie was marketed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Monkey Says Yes on 17 Dec 2010, 07:51
I just read yesterday's comics and today's, and I must agree that Faye looks great in panel 2.  Very cool angle.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tbones on 17 Dec 2010, 08:09
 
Wasn't that phrase part of the trailers for the Bruce Willis, Morgan Freeman etc. movie that came out a few months ago? Where Bruce says Helen Mirren is the best wet worker in the business? I would think most people with a television in their home would know the phrase after how heavily that s**t show movie was marketed.


RED (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1245526/) was it, right? Yeah i think i heard in the trailers but when i watched here, but i saw the translated version (sic), and when they mention it, they said "trabajo húmedo", something that sounds more like "moist job". I think i almost died while chocking on my laughter (<-- does that makes sense???)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Bastion on 17 Dec 2010, 08:09
Jeph's art is definitely improving by leaps and bounds these days. Also, Ms. Vance is awesome for offering to kill Dora, even though I like Dora I like her less for dumping Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 08:19
Jeph's art is definitely improving by leaps and bounds these days. Also, Ms. Vance is awesome for offering to kill Dora, even though I like Dora I like her less for dumping Marten.

I'd like to see a murder or serious injury in this comic, myself (kind of lacking in my webcomic gore, as Dr McNinja has been really slow lately).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Coco on 17 Dec 2010, 08:23
RED (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1245526/) was it, right? Yeah i think i heard in the trailers but when i watched here, but i saw the translated version (sic), and when they mention it, they said "trabajo húmedo", something that sounds more like "moist job". I think i almost died while chocking on my laughter (<-- does that makes sense???)

Moist job!? And it does make sense because I am choking on my laughter right now. The cubicle dweller next to me already thinks I'm nuts, now it sounds like an invisible man is strangling me. Sounds like something right out of the english subtitles from a foreign bootleg.

BTW, you haven't seen LOTR until you've seen the Iraqi bootleg that my friend brought back with him. I usually don't subscribe to bootlegging and pirating, but when its that bad its practically a fair use satire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Dec 2010, 08:37
(Hangs head in shame)

Yes.

(Also hangs his head in shame)

But ... but ... I'm not a native english speaker, after all !

Well, according to the link Akima gave to Wikipedia, the phrase was originally Russian.  It got into the spy world via the KGB, who got it from the criminal world of armed robbery, a wet job being one where you had to spill some blood to get the goods. 

Gives you an idea about who the KGB hired in the early days...
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: El_Flesh on 17 Dec 2010, 08:49
Quote
some fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it.

Why would he not have meant it? It is exactly what he is thinking, only the booze makes him not censor it!
He likes this chick, open his home to her, helps her out in a lot of ways, and what does he get for his efforts?
Friendship that will fade out when she moves in and starts a family with someone else.
That's what I call paving the way.

She takes advantage of the situation and his feelings towards her. I am not saying she is a cold hearted and calculating bitch, but she is
nevertheless making the best of his attraction towards her. And telling someone "Oh I will always ONLY be your friend, so if you can't
accept this, please let me know. But if you CAN accept it, then fine we'll stay friends" does NOT excuse a chick from taking advantage.
Or even a guy for that matter; I have seen it happen the other way rarely. It is 'parasitic'. Does Marten get what he wants?
I'm sure he wasn't looking for a punch in the head. I'm sure he wanted to make out like he said.

Faye should do the right thing and either move out, or else decide Marten is who she wants, and dump her current BF. It's not nice to him,
but at least she could be true to herself and Marten. She seemed to have at least some bit of romantic feelings at an earlier time.  

Marten didn't lie to her when he was drunk. And what he said has been on his mind since he'd met her.

(BTW, I find it best to proceed as if these people were real, and not characters. Pintsize becomes pretty scary that way...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: maddness on 17 Dec 2010, 08:55
I learned the term "wet work" from books, so it's not just something you pick up in spy movies.

I love that Marten's mom is willing to do time for the sake of her son's happiness, even though I'm pretty sure she knew the answer would be no before she offered to kill someone for him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 17 Dec 2010, 09:00
To El_Flesh, I know it seems like a daunting task, but you may want to read the topic first. About a dozen or more thoughts on exactly that issue have been expressed, including word from the author himself.

At the very least, check those and then promote your thoughts. You'll find posts supporting and going against that view. It might help you flesh it out more, in fact.

With regard to VV's cheeks. Eh...they're noticeable but they're not bad. It's interesting because if you look at her jaw-line, she's still got the sharp Reed jaw-line. The laughing lines just sort of suggest chubby cheeks...but they're really not there if you scrutinize.

I don't see the problem, personally.

And lol @ anyone who thought she seriously wanted to murder Dora. She made good use of dry humor during her last visit and it seems to have remained.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 09:06
Why would he not have meant it? It is exactly what he is thinking, only the booze makes him not censor it!

It has been explained several times that having that much booze renders what you are thinking pretty much meaningless.  

In spite of that, I'll add that if my normal state censors a thought, the possibility that at some stage of booziness that thought might become uncensored does not make it more authentically me; in fact, less so, because the censorship in the normal state is also part of what makes me who I am.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 17 Dec 2010, 09:17
I learned the term "wet work" from books, so it's not just something you pick up in spy movies.

I love that Marten's mom is willing to do time for the sake of her son's happiness, even though I'm pretty sure she knew the answer would be no before she offered to kill someone for him.
\

Best question to ask - the one to which you already know the answer.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 17 Dec 2010, 09:37
Aw man, there's finally a comic with Marten's mom and my monitor is all fucked up and I can't see what she looks like properly.  Sucks.

I'd like to see a murder or serious injury in this comic, myself (kind of lacking in my webcomic gore, as Dr McNinja has been really slow lately).

Check back as of, like, right now - I checked it half an hour and it was still Thursday's page, and there's a new one now with something that will hopefully give you your violence fix.

And it was still pretty awesome without fights:

Dr. McNinja: "We're going to hijack the Space Shuttle and shoot a missile at the dinosaur scout that discovers Earth!"

(beat)

King Radical: "...radical."


<snipsy doodle>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)".

Yeah she is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Dec 2010, 09:37
Quote
some fucking people appear to like what Marten said while drunk, and seem to want him to have meant it.

Why would he not have meant it?

Why would  he have?  It's a drunken thought, right up there with "I'll just drive home nstead of calling a cab", and "Gee, those railroad ties look comfy.  I'll just lay down for a few".  The thoughts of a mind swimmng in booze are not a person's own thoughts.  Right, nothing censors them, but that doesn't mean they'd ever even cross his mind sober.  

Quote
He likes this chick, open his home to her, helps her out in a lot of ways, and what does he get for his efforts?
Friendship that will fade out when she moves in and starts a family with someone else.
That's what I call paving the way.

How old are you?  I'm guessing not much older than the comic protagonists.  I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you haven't had the opportunity to have a good friend start a family and move.  You don't lose touch, not with your best friends.  And even if you do lose touch for a while, you can easily contact them again, and fall right back into it.  Friendship's amazing like that.  And they are  best friends.  It's what he got out of the deal.  And what Faye got, as well.  Because she couldn't deal with him at the time, and they both moved on.  

Quote
She takes advantage of the situation and his feelings towards her. I am not saying she is a cold hearted and calculating bitch, but she is
nevertheless making the best of his attraction towards her. And telling someone "Oh I will always ONLY be your friend, so if you can't
accept this, please let me know. But if you CAN accept it, then fine we'll stay friends" does NOT excuse a chick from taking advantage.

read (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=502) these (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=508) again (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=508), and tell me, honestly, that that's what she's saying.  

Because it's not.  

Quote
Faye should do the right thing and either move out, or else decide Marten is who she wants, and dump her current BF. It's not nice to him,
but at least she could be true to herself and Marten. She seemed to have at least some bit of romantic feelings at an earlier time.  

Maybe moving out is the right thing for her to do.  Maybe not, not yet.  At some point, yes, she should move out.  Or he should.  And yes, maybe at some point they will get together.  I'm not even sure Jeph knows that one.  But not because of a drunken rant at the unfairness of the world.  Of course there's been a sexual attracton, there was a lot with many of my old female friends.  Doesn't mean we ever acted on it, or that it destroyed our friendships.  

Quote
(BTW, I find it best to proceed as if these people were real, and not characters...)

Not a bad idea.  I hope you don't treat your real friends the way you say Marten and faye should treat each other.  

Good lord, it took so long to compose this that three other people have adressed parts of your post.  

Oh, well.  
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 17 Dec 2010, 09:51
In the last panel Marten's reaching back to slip a note into his mother's hand with Sven's address and details about Dora's routine on it. He just didn't want possible witnesses hearing him tell   Veronica that he wanted Dora dead; that would make him an accomplice!

Is this a new rule of the forums - whenever we can't see one of Marten's hands, it's up to no good (groping Faye/plotting murder)?

 Yes, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. (apologies to Gary Larson)

 As it is, this strip is pretty classic; what with the hangover, threats of death, and witty remarks. :-D

 
 Also, not sure if I'm remembering this correctly. But didn't last time we see Marten's mom she also met Dora?

 Maybe that was Marten's mom through Dora's starry eyes (since she used to be famous)

 And now we're seeing her through Marten's eyes where she's just "Mom".

 Dunno. Just thought it was cool!  :-D

 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Border Reiver on 17 Dec 2010, 10:09
Carl - I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 17 Dec 2010, 10:14
Anyone else thinking we're going to be seeing at least three "Oh Shit!" moments next week?

One from Dora, one from Faye and one from Hanners when she looks up Veronica on wikipedia?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 17 Dec 2010, 10:25
Anyone else thinking we're going to be seeing at least three "Oh Shit!" moments next week?

One from Dora, one from Faye and one from Hanners when she looks up Veronica on wikipedia?

What would be great is if they were all in one strip, panel-by-panel...with the last panel just being Veronica saying, "Hello, ladies."

And then there's a four-way battle to the death with the broadsword and Faye's Muay Thai and Hanners' WMDs and...

...wait, what were we talking about?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: charybdis on 17 Dec 2010, 10:29
I--I actually like the way Veronica is done in the new version.
More Mom-ish, more realistic towards her age, but it seems like you can tell she was one hell of a looker not that long ago, and she can still rock the socks off her clients.

Just my 2c
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Superkid11 on 17 Dec 2010, 10:42
Her age is probably just now catching up to her. She still looks quite pretty considering though... I'd definitely hit that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 10:45
Aw man, there's finally a comic with Marten's mom and my monitor is all fucked up and I can't see what she looks like properly.  Sucks.

I'd like to see a murder or serious injury in this comic, myself (kind of lacking in my webcomic gore, as Dr McNinja has been really slow lately).

Check back as of, like, right now - I checked it half an hour and it was still Thursday's page, and there's a new one now with something that will hopefully give you your violence fix.

And it was still pretty awesome without fights:

Dr. McNinja: "We're going to hijack the Space Shuttle and shoot a missile at the dinosaur scout that discovers Earth!"

(beat)

King Radical: "...radical."


<snipsy doodle>
Marten's Mum on the other hand is made of deadpan-humour win. That's real mother love; she's ready to get "wet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_job)".

Yeah she is.

I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cesariojpn on 17 Dec 2010, 10:46
Quote
It's a bit unfair to compare her to pictures of models that you pulled off the net. I didn't look at them because I'm at work, but chances are they have had a professional make-up job done, professional hair, and have been airbrushed to the point where their own children won't recognize them.

AFAIK, the Wikipedia links have unretouched photos.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 17 Dec 2010, 10:46
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...

Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s.  I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.

earlier strip with a yearbook dated 1998, and he referenced prom- So he was either a junior(16) or senior(17/18) then. assuming he went right into college, grad'd in 4 years, he should be around 23.  I would rate his mom to be more in late-40's


yup, Im bored
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 17 Dec 2010, 10:48
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...

Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s.  I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.

earlier strip with a yearbook dated 1998, and he referenced prom- So he was either a junior(16) or senior(17/18) then. assuming he went right into college, grad'd in 4 years, he should be around 23.  I would rate his mom to be more in late-40's


yup, Im bored

Can't be. The girlfriend graduated in 2002 and is now 26.  He'd have to be later into his 20s.

Edit: Wait, or is the comic in a different point in time...?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 17 Dec 2010, 10:55
Wow - the last year has not been kind to her...

Marten's in his mid 20s, and if we assume that Ms. Vance was in her late 20s when she had Marten, that puts her in her early 50s.  I think any complaints have to be directed at the earlier art style for making her look like she was in her 30s.

earlier strip with a yearbook dated 1998, and he referenced prom- So he was either a junior(16) or senior(17/18) then. assuming he went right into college, grad'd in 4 years, he should be around 23.  I would rate his mom to be more in late-40's


yup, Im bored

Can't be. The girlfriend graduated in 2002 and is now 26.  He'd have to be later into his 20s.

Edit: Wait, or is the comic in a different point in time...?

it was admitted in teh comic that Dora was older then him. somebody dig up the strip!


different point in time? how about a different...reality! you see that guy on his comuter in CoD?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: GeoffTheLlama on 17 Dec 2010, 10:57
it was admitted in teh comic that Dora was older then him. somebody dig up the strip!

Ohohoh, sorry, I forgot about that.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 17 Dec 2010, 10:57
I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.

Terrible how?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 17 Dec 2010, 10:58
it was admitted in teh comic that Dora was older then him. somebody dig up the strip!

Ohohoh, sorry, I forgot about that.  :psyduck:

s'ok, I cant be mad at a llama.

especially when there is one with a monocle....monocole?fuck.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Castlerook on 17 Dec 2010, 11:15
I can't imagine that Dora would be that much older then Marten. She's probably 26 (She's said that even though Sven is just a year older, it creeped her out when he hit on her friends) and Sven has recently said he is 28, so give or take a couple of months between birthdays....

Marten is probably 24-25, don't ask me how I figured that....he just seems to be in that kinda age group.....Like I was....before last Monday...... Stupid getting older!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Elysiana on 17 Dec 2010, 11:16
I think the only thing that bothers me about Veronica is that her cheek lines remind me of "photo-realistic" tattoos people get where the tat artist uses full black ink to just draw things like a nose or teeth, rather than shading lightly.

(http://i.imgur.com/bgeno.jpg)
(left is the original)

Then again, I can't draw for shit (I'm a graphic designer, not an artist!), so I really can't say anything. I just think lighter lines would still convey the age, without being so shockingly THERE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: El_Flesh on 17 Dec 2010, 11:20
Quote
Carl - I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls?

Seems to me that this is exactly the warning of "don't be a dick to others".

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: foolsguinea on 17 Dec 2010, 11:24
OK, that's just pathetic. Veronica shows up, looking...puffier than I recall, & all sadface, & offers to kill Dora to make Marten happy. Somehow I expected cooler.

Don't get mad, Jeph, I'm just weirded out. Apparently she's aged a lot since the pre-Talk days.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 11:27
I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.

Terrible how?

Because anything that doesn't make sense timeline-wise is now blamed on Superboy Prime punching Time to escape from the Speed Force prison he was being held in by all the Flashes that had been trapped there when they ran too fast (he had originally been trapped there by Wally and two other Flashes that helped Wally pull him in once the way had started opening as Wally approached faster-than-light speeds with Superboy Prime in front of him).

OK, that's just pathetic. Veronica shows up, looking...puffier than I recall, & all sadface, & offers to kill Dora to make Marten happy. Somehow I expected cooler.

Don't get mad, Jeph, I'm just weirded out. Apparently she's aged a lot since the pre-Talk days.

Meth is a hell of a drug.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Coco on 17 Dec 2010, 11:35
Elysiana, I think you are exactly right about the lines being too dark. They are present to convey laugh lines but end up creating a sense of puffy cheeks that many have been whining about. Though I don't know why age and little extra weight (if that's what Jeph did intend with the dark lines) automatically make her somehow less than her last appearance. I find it a little ridiculous that with everything there is to be said about Ms. Reed everyone is so hung up on her appearance...

*Looks at feminist soapbox, puts one foot up, takes it back down, and backs away slowly*

But seriously, VV is beautiful and vivacious and funny. I don't know if offering to take Dora out is the right response here, but maybe she thought he needed a laugh and didn't realize that Marten's jokey violent friend slot is already very well occupied by the beautiful and vivacious Faye. It's time for some rational Mom perspective. With any luck we'll get to see that on Monday.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Dec 2010, 11:41
Carl - I thought we agreed not to feed the trolls? 

Wait, what? 

Damn, and he seemed so sincere.  Misguided, maybe...

Wait, I just went and read some of his other posts.  Seems he's no troll, just a bit of a self-confessed jerk. 

Which means my reply's about as useful as a ... well, you know.   :wink:

 :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: El_Flesh on 17 Dec 2010, 12:07
Dude - think your way, and live your life your way, and I'll live my life mine! I have been around the block more than a few times.

I should have done the things I recommend to Marten, because I lost out the same way he has more than once.
Later on, I won the one time it really counted. I'm married to her now.

The other ones were not worth waiting around for, but we don't have a crystal ball. At the time I didn't know
that they would ultimately move on. So, I will always advise anyone in that situation to cut their losses,
stop wasting their time and youth, and move on to someone new.

If a girl OR a guy will only be friends with you when they KNOW what you want, then they shouldn't torture you.
It's just mean. Marten is going to have a small bit of hope in the back of his head that Faye will one day come around,
and while there is a small chance she might, she probably never will. That bit of hope most people cling to with tenacity,
and wind up paying for it. It's very probably not worth it. Move out Marten. Let Faye shack up with Angus. Don't go into
coffee of doom ever again. The next chick you come across, you will accept less shit from, and it will serve you well.
Know when to draw the line and tell a woman that enough is enough; shit or get off the pot. Girls OR guys with issues can
just suck all the life and energy out of you, and not in a good way.

If I'm drinking in a bar with Marten, this is exactly what I will tell him, drunk OR sober.


If you guys think this shouldn't be posted here and it's trolling then fine, let me know and I won't bother you again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 12:10
Dude - think your way, and live your life your way, and I'll live my life mine! I have been around the block more than a few times.

I should have done the things I recommend to Marten, because I lost out the same way he has more than once.
Later on, I won the one time it really counted. I'm married to her now.

The other ones were not worth waiting around for, but we don't have a crystal ball. At the time I didn't know
that they would ultimately move on. So, I will always advise anyone in that situation to cut their losses,
stop wasting their time and youth, and move on to someone new.

If a girl OR a guy will only be friends with you when they KNOW what you want, then they shouldn't torture you.
It's just mean. Marten is going to have a small bit of hope in the back of his head that Faye will one day come around,
and while there is a small chance she might, she probably never will. That bit of hope most people cling to with tenacity,
and wind up paying for it. It's very probably not worth it. Move out Marten. Let Faye shack up with Angus. Don't go into
coffee of doom ever again. The next chick you come across, you will accept less shit from, and it will serve you well.
Know when to draw the line and tell a woman that enough is enough; shit or get off the pot. Girls OR guys with issues can
just suck all the life and energy out of you, and not in a good way.

If I'm drinking in a bar with Marten, this is exactly what I will tell him, drunk OR sober.


If you guys think this shouldn't be posted here and it's trolling then fine, let me know and I won't bother you again.

This post had me laughing far more than it was probably meant to.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 17 Dec 2010, 12:15
Because anything that doesn't make sense timeline-wise is now blamed on Superboy Prime punching Time to escape from the Speed Force prison he was being held in by all the Flashes that had been trapped there when they ran too fast (he had originally been trapped there by Wally and two other Flashes that helped Wally pull him in once the way had started opening as Wally approached faster-than-light speeds with Superboy Prime in front of him).

Oh, terrible in the continuity sense. Sure. I thought you were saying the art/design of the page was terrible.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 12:19
Because anything that doesn't make sense timeline-wise is now blamed on Superboy Prime punching Time to escape from the Speed Force prison he was being held in by all the Flashes that had been trapped there when they ran too fast (he had originally been trapped there by Wally and two other Flashes that helped Wally pull him in once the way had started opening as Wally approached faster-than-light speeds with Superboy Prime in front of him).

Oh, terrible in the continuity sense. Sure. I thought you were saying the art/design of the page was terrible.

The aesthetics of the thing bugs the hell out of me anyway (there is a very good Dragonball Z parody image floating around the internet), but yeah, the "logic" behind the entire thing certainly doesn't help matters.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Kugai on 17 Dec 2010, 12:24
Ya gotta love Marten's mom.  The things she'd do for her son.   :-D


I'm looking forward to the bunfight that'll occur when she goes to see Dora

And I think she will.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: El_Flesh on 17 Dec 2010, 12:24
So what causes you to laugh so much?
Why make a provocative statement and leave it at that without explaining?
What's your take on the situation?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 12:28
If you guys think this shouldn't be posted here and it's trolling then fine, let me know and I won't bother you again.

I don't see this as trolling, but I do see it as a misguided point of view.  Your life has worked out for you along these lines, so fine; but you are expressing ideas which most people here disagree with.  Also fine, but this is not a relationship forum - it is about a comic and the people in it.  You have misinterpreted Marten in spite of recent guidance from Jeph, the author.  Jeph will write Marten as he pleases, and not as you (or anyone else) thinks he should.  Repeatedly coming back to express this same view here again will be seen as provocative and could spur me into more direct action.

Everyone else - just leave it be, please.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 12:32
So what causes you to laugh so much?
Why make a provocative statement and leave it at that without explaining?
What's your take on the situation?

It wasn't meant as a provocative statement, and it'll make more sense if I have the time this weekend to pull together the post on Marten's character I'll be making in the relevant thread to explain my Nice Guy posts earlier in the thread.

I was mainly laughing at how you're going to be making my earlier points for me if you keep arguing the way you are. Paul seems to get it, as well, but for the shorter version go back in the thread and read the posts I've made.

I don't see this as trolling, but I do see it as a misguided point of view.  Your life has worked out for you along these lines, so fine; but you are expressing ideas which most people here disagree with.  Also fine, but this is not a relationship forum - it is about a comic and the people in it.  You have misinterpreted Marten in spite of recent guidance from Jeph, the author.  Jeph will write Marten as he pleases, and not as you (or anyone else) thinks he should.  Repeatedly coming back to express this same view here again will be seen as provocative and could spur me into more direct action.

Everyone else - just leave it be, please.

Until this weekend, where I'll be linking to it at some point in the Marten characterization thread and using it for reference, sure.  :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: El_Flesh on 17 Dec 2010, 12:48
Whatever. It was advice as if he were a live person.
Advice isn't twisting an arm like you make it sound.

Don't want to cause any more waves so I'll leave it be.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cesariojpn on 17 Dec 2010, 12:59
Ya gotta love Marten's mom.  The things she'd do for her son.   :-D

I'm looking forward to the bunfight that'll occur when she goes to see Dora

And I think she will.

No, Faye will shit her panties first given what Veronica told her in the past (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459), and then Dora will catch on pretty quickly whats up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: TRVA123 on 17 Dec 2010, 13:14
Man, some of you talk about alcohol as if its evil incarnate and makes those who use it into the devils minions....

In my experience alcohol lowers inhibitions. In some people it makes inhibitions vanish. This is what causes people to "think they're alright to drive", because their usual warning bell isn't mentally going off. In other people alcohol brings to the forefront aspects of their personality that are usually suppressed, thus the angry drunk or the destructive drunk. The alcohol doesn't create these facets of a person, they're there all along.

I would also argue that a lot of people out there use alcohol as an excuse to not be responsible for their actions. People think, "I've been drinking, so it's okay to be a jerk" or to do something worse. Lowered inhibitions might tip someone in this sort of direction, but the person still is aware that they're crossing boundaries and deliberately chooses to disregard them because they can just say that they were drunk when confronted about it later.

That said, I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. While I think that what he said did come from some of his true feelings about his situation with Faye, what he said does not sum up all of his feelings about his situation with Faye.

Marten was probably thinking things like: "Where would I be now if Faye had been open to a relationship with me back before Dora? If I had been a more assertive person would we have gotten together? Has Faye been using me because I care about her? Why was Faye with Angus instead of comforting me? Now that Faye has a boyfriend am I going to lose my best friend?"

Marten's in a bad place, he's feeling insecure (and who could blame him, he just got dumped) and when you're insecure thoughts like these tend to multiply. Yes, most of them are ridiculous and unlikely, but that doesn't mean that we don't have them from time to time. If Marten were sober he would probably shut down these thoughts early, but when drunk Marten might not have been able to suppress his insecurities, leading to that conversation with Faye.

I hope that Faye brings it up to Marten again so that they can work past the things he said. Marten, if nothing else, needs to be reassured that his friendship with Faye is secure.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cuzsis on 17 Dec 2010, 13:24
OK, that's just pathetic. Veronica shows up, looking...puffier than I recall, & all sadface, & offers to kill Dora to make Marten happy. Somehow I expected cooler.

Don't get mad, Jeph, I'm just weirded out. Apparently she's aged a lot since the pre-Talk days.

 Just her face though. I thought maybe she'd gone to the dentist or something.

 Or is just really puffy eyed from the red-eye flight. That happens a lot.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 13:43
I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. [...] Marten was probably thinking things like:

Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself?  Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.

And again this idea appears (briefly) that releasing inhibitions exposes your true feelings.  But your true self includes  those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them means that your thoughts become unrepresentative of you.

Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: TRVA123 on 17 Dec 2010, 13:57
Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself?  Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.

And again this idea appears that releasing inhibitions exposes your true self.  NO!   Your true self includes  those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them is removing part of yourself.

I have been that drunk. Never again. But I was still thinking, not in a sophisticated or logical fashion, but on a more feelings based, instinctual level. However I was saved from myself by the fact that my lack of motor function prevented anyone from understanding what I was trying to say...

I can see your point about inhibitions being an integral part of your self, but that does not mean that the impulses they prevent aren't also part of your true self, even if they are contradictory. Humans tend to be inconsistent.

Put another way, we have different inhibitions depending on a situations context, right?
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: daryljfontaine on 17 Dec 2010, 13:59
What would be great is if they were all in one strip, panel-by-panel...with the last panel just being Veronica saying, "Hello, ladies."

And then there's a four-way [...] with the broad[...] and Faye[...] and Hanners[...] and...

...wait, what were we talking about?

Ohh yeaaaaaahhhhh

Creative editing for prurient interests 101.

D
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 17 Dec 2010, 14:00
I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. [...] Marten was probably thinking things like:

Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself?  Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.

And again this idea appears (briefly) that releasing inhibitions exposes your true feelings.  But your true self includes  those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them means that your thoughts become unrepresentative of you.



True facts.  I once (only once) got falling down drunk and called my best girlfriend a dirty skank who stole boyfriends even though while sober I knew perfectly well that wasn't true.  I was also caught on camera declaring my love to some other girl that I barely knew.  I mean, she was hot and all, but I'm straight and haven't experienced any lesbian tendencies since.

I'm pretty sure that once you're downed-a-fifth-of-liquor drunk (gin in my case), nothing you say could really be called true anymore, and no one should believe you.  Well, unless you say it again while sober.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: StevenC on 17 Dec 2010, 14:20
I do think that at the time Marten was drunk to the point of blacking out. [...] Marten was probably thinking things like:

Have you ever been that drunk for real yourself?  Thinking is not a suitable word for what remains of brain function at that point.

And again this idea appears (briefly) that releasing inhibitions exposes your true feelings.  But your true self includes  those inhibitions, for better or worse, and removing them means that your thoughts become unrepresentative of you.



You must feel like a broken record, having to repeat this that often.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 17 Dec 2010, 14:24
I like how today's McNinja comic seems to be a riff on Superboy Prime's "Time Punch" page that was so terrible back during Infinite Crisis.

Oh man, I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it!  Hilarious.

And yeah, the fact that he punches Time fails to cross the line from stupid stupid to awesome stupid.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 14:40
All right, kids, back on topic:

Let's see, last we checked, there are only two people in NoHo that know Veronica's back in town: Marten and Tai.

We have no reason to believe that Faye knows that mom's back in town (or she wouldn't have gone DefCon Level 3 upside his head); ergo, we'd have to assume Dora has no clue that Mom's back.

There are a couple of other significant players in the cast who have never met Veronica, whose reaction might be verrrryyy interesting (other than, of course, Hannelore):
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 17 Dec 2010, 14:45
All right, kids, back on topic:

Let's see, last we checked, there are only two people in NoHo that know Veronica's back in town: Marten and Tai.

We have no reason to believe that Faye knows that mom's back in town (or she wouldn't have gone DefCon Level 3 upside his head); ergo, we'd have to assume Dora has no clue that Mom's back.

There are a couple of other significant players in the cast who have never met Veronica, whose reaction might be verrrryyy interesting (other than, of course, Hannelore):
  • Sven - he might have seen those photos his dad had (!)
  • Angus - no idea what his reaction might be, which could be fun!
  • Penelope - Wouldn't it be hilarious if she not only knew who she was, but she knew her on a first-name basis? (nahhhhh....)
  • Steve - he probably knows who mom is from what Marty's told him, but AFAWK, he hasn't actually met her.
  • Cosette - She might be completely freaked out by her - which could be hilarious if Hannelore isn't freaked out after finding out who VV is.

I would love - LOVE - if Hannelore discovers VV is Marten's mom and is just like, "Oh yeah, no, I knew that.  How are you, Ms. Vance?"  I don't even think I'd be all that shocked, what with her taking his genetic information and even from the get-go knowing an awful lot about Marten and Faye just because she took an interest.  Background check? Piece of cake.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 14:52
Put another way, we have different inhibitions depending on a situations context, right?

Quite so - and note that I modified my previous reply almost immediately, but apparently after you quoted me, because I realised I had somewhat misread your post in a rush.  Sorry.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 14:59
Creative editing for prurient interests 101.

Cut it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 17 Dec 2010, 15:07
To who called Ms. Reed a porn star; she wasn't  a porn star, she was (is?) a fetish model/professional dominatrix. Professional doms don't (usually) actually have sex with their clients. She says here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=435) that she was never fully nude in her photos.

Also, someone pointed out that even though you'd expect someone in the porn industry to look better, she probably does...when she's working. We're seeing her as a normal person, not Veronica Vance (can't remember who first made this point; sorry)

And to the person who tried to estimate Marten's age by using 1998 as his prom year, not bad assuming Marten was fresh out of college when the comic started, but I didn't get the impression that he was. Marten always talked about his old job like he'd been at it for quite awhile; I'd say at least a year. Then again it could have just seemed longer to him since he hated it so much. hmm....

The only real reason Ms. Reed looked better the last time she was in town was because Jeph didn't have the drawing ability to make her look properly aged. If you look closely at her face in this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=456) comic, you can actually see attempts at age lines (not terrible attempts, they just aren't noticeable enough. Please don't kill me, Jeph!).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Dec 2010, 15:09
Also, the fact that her hair covers her forehead this time makes a marked different to her look.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: PureLionHeart on 17 Dec 2010, 15:20
Dammit Marten, you have no ambition.

This is the point where you name someone else for her to kill to cheer you up. The possibilities are endless!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Akima on 17 Dec 2010, 15:23
Still Marten's mom was thinking of an amateur job, do it, and give herself in, so no one would suspect on Marten.... If she was a pro, she would do it so no one ever discovered the real victimary. "The perfect crime is not the one that goes unsolved, but the one that is solved with the wrong culprit."
The perfect crime, surely, is one that is not even recognised as a crime...

I'm afraid to ask how you know that phrase...
Wet job/work? I thought it was pretty widely known from espionage/thriller fiction, but I threw in the Wiki link just in case. I'm really not a deep-cover agent of Guoanbu...  :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 17 Dec 2010, 15:37
Not everyone has watched, well, any of the hundreds of spy movies ever made, you know.

Astounding fact of the day:- not all spy movies contain that phrase!
Since we are apparently back on this topic; I'm really not totally sure where I know that from....I was never really into proper spy thrillers; just James Bond and the like, first for the gadgets and later for the girls of course...it's just that it always sorta seemed to make sense, y'know, since I was like eight or something. Dunno what's up with that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: O8h7w on 17 Dec 2010, 15:48
I'm pretty sure I've heard that phrase in a Bond movie... but I have to think for a moment every time I see it - that's not very often, clearly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Dec 2010, 17:14
I've watched pretty much every Bond movie (okay, maybe not one or two of the early ones) and don't recall that term being used in them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 17 Dec 2010, 19:06
And to the person who tried to estimate Marten's age by using 1998 as his prom year, not bad assuming Marten was fresh out of college when the comic started, but I didn't get the impression that he was. Marten always talked about his old job like he'd been at it for quite awhile; I'd say at least a year. Then again it could have just seemed longer to him since he hated it so much. hmm....


Maten came to the right coast soon after grad'ing to be with milky. figure in that time, he had to grab the first job- mr. office bitch, which he hates, and makes him bummed. throw in the depression of being dumped, meeting steve during that drunken fiasco at the bar, let stew for 6 months at -12*(hey, its the northeast), and BAM! comic #1
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tHEfOOL on 17 Dec 2010, 19:10
Warning - while you were reading 21 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.  

lol that's what i get for leaving for an hour
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Nodaisho on 17 Dec 2010, 20:11
You must feel like a broken record, having to repeat this that often.
He raised kids, he's used to it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: maddness on 17 Dec 2010, 20:27
Also, you don't have to be insanely hot or nubile to be a dominatrix. The clients are more interested in how good a dominant she is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Odin on 17 Dec 2010, 20:28
Also, you don't have to be insanely hot or nubile to be a dominatrix. The clients are more interested in how good a dominant she is.

Plus it'd be easy to hide that face from clients with a leather face mask (and they'd probably be more concerned with the gag in their mouth).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: JackFaerie on 17 Dec 2010, 23:45
PLUS not all clients need a fresh-faced 20-something as their dom. She's a dominatrix! An authoritarian authority figure! It may well work to her advantage. Plus she's not bad looking, just, you know, aged. (Even if the cheek-lines do make her face look oddly puffy.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: cesariojpn on 18 Dec 2010, 00:53
To who called Ms. Reed a porn star; she wasn't  a porn star, she was (is?) a fetish model/professional dominatrix. Professional doms don't (usually) actually have sex with their clients. She says here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=435) that she was never fully nude in her photos.

Fetish modeling is interlaced with the stereotype of pornography for all intents and purposes for those uninitiated. Many fetish models have done porn or do porn as well....Dita Von Teese has done some porn videos along with her fetish modeling (Playboy and Marquis if memory serves me right).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Irenfrea on 18 Dec 2010, 01:38
Well I remember Veronica having wrinkles back in the 450s, except that Jeph used different drawing techniques back then, and he coloured them as a darker-skin colour. He used black now, so they are more visible. Probably he wanted more emphasys on them as his drawing techniques advanced.

I'm looking forward for a Veronica-Dora meeting. Dora all wielding the counter-hidden sword and Veronica cracking a whip :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 18 Dec 2010, 02:12
Dora would melt.

Remember when she was cowering in her apartment waiting for Faye after she made a move on Marten?

As soon as she finds out Martymom's in town, she'll lose not only muscle control, but the ability to speak or form coherent thoughts.

You may not want to be standing near her when that happens.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: dsvella on 18 Dec 2010, 02:17
PLUS not all clients need a fresh-faced 20-something as their dom. She's a dominatrix! An authoritarian authority figure! It may well work to her advantage. Plus she's not bad looking, just, you know, aged. (Even if the cheek-lines do make her face look oddly puffy.)

Thank you. I have been thinking that her face looked wrong for a while now but couldn't put my finger on it. Now i know, She does look puffy for some reason. Back in the 450's she seemed to me to have a very tight face to me.

Just my 2  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Dec 2010, 02:18
I'm really not a deep-cover agent of Guoanbu...  :angel:

You do  realize that by making that statement, you've provided concrete proof of the fact? 

Because no one else mentioned the Guoanbu... 

And really, the only reason to profess innocence of something is if you're feeling guilty!    :police:

Disclaimer:  Yes, I know it's a specious argument, the only reason I use it is that it's exactly the type of argument used by the military police of an authoritarian state...

and it's 4 AM, so I can't think of anything more clever yet. 
   :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Dec 2010, 02:42
The Moment Of The Week (Yeah, we're doing it again):

Caring Hannelore cares!    - 8 (9.1%)
"You're a terrible influence, alcohol-induced hallucination."    - 17 (19.3%)
Where's Faye's Bra?    - 4 (4.5%)
Some kind of creepy trophy...    - 0 (0%)
Sheer Intensity of Makeouts?    - 2 (2.3%)
Quantum Tunnelling effect    - 6 (6.8%)
Please tell me you did not drink that entire bottle    - 0 (0%)
That was a terrible idea.    - 3 (3.4%)
At least ONE of us isn't gonna remember this in the morning.    - 11 (12.5%)
Did I say anything stupid last night? No, you were fine.    - 4 (4.5%)
OWLS. Owls? OWLS.    - 25 (28.4%)
So, do you want me to kill Dora for you?    - 6 (6.8%)
Love you too, mom.    - 2 (2.3%)

Total Voters: 88
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Near Lurker on 18 Dec 2010, 07:56
Oh, and I can't help but think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqo82G5zkVo).
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 18 Dec 2010, 08:27
Oh, and I can't help but think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqo82G5zkVo).

That. Is. Fantastic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Dec 2010, 11:55
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:

Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:

"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Skewbrow on 18 Dec 2010, 12:47
Dora would melt.

Remember when she was cowering in her apartment waiting for Faye after she made a move on Marten?

As soon as she finds out Martymom's in town, she'll lose not only muscle control, but the ability to speak or form coherent thoughts.

You may not want to be standing near her when that happens.

"It's Cosette's turn to clean up the..."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: O8h7w on 18 Dec 2010, 14:12
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:

Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:

"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."

I'm almost, but not quite, speechless.

I have one thing to say: I was impressed by a few other impressive theories earlier in this thread, but really, they're nothing compared to this... thank you, jwhouk, for an awesome moment of speechlessness. You have my admiration.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 18 Dec 2010, 16:06
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:

Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:

"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."

Eyes? What? Not quite understanding the basis for this one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Dec 2010, 16:43
Jwhouk compared Ms. Reed's eyes in the last panel of 1820 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1820) with Hanner's eyes in the first panel of 1762 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1762). 

Personally, I don't see it - Hanner's eyes are green and rounder, Vivian's eyes are Marten's peiercing light blue, and though they're not shaped the same way as Marten's in this strip, Marten's eyes had a very  hard night.  Compare first panel Marten in 1785 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1785) with Ms. Reed's eyes inthe 3rd panel of 1820. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 18 Dec 2010, 17:06
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:

Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:

"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."


Dude.

People have shipped Sven and Dora and have been totally serious about it.

Do you seriously think it will dis-courage them when they find out that Marten and Hannelore are cousins?!?!?

That will just add fuel to the fire!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Dec 2010, 17:11
But that's just it. You'd think Marten would have known about it by now if Hanners was his cousin. (Ellicott and Chatham aren't exactly common names, you know.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 18 Dec 2010, 17:18
I have my doubts about this particular theory, but I wouldn't be wholly surprised if it turned out Marty and Hannelore were related somehow. Marten often acts as a big-brother figure to Hanners, and she's always got his back too. They have a very sweet platonic relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: AnAverageWriter on 18 Dec 2010, 17:43
People have shipped Sven and Dora and have been totally serious about it.

Is that one of the things that made Jeph go a bit crazy and rename the comic part of the forum to "fffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF?"

People will ship anyone, no matter how shudder-inducing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: someone1074 on 18 Dec 2010, 18:07

Oh, the point was to be off-the-wall. Got you.

Sometimes you just can't tell on these forums, you know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Dec 2010, 19:01
It could very easily be that Veronica is related to Hannerdad, either as a half-sibling or something. Hannerdad might have remarried Veronica's sister or something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: ducktape on 18 Dec 2010, 20:26
Jwhouk compared Ms. Reed's eyes in the last panel of 1820 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1820) with Hanner's eyes in the first panel of 1762 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1762).  
Personally, I don't see it - Hanner's eyes are green and rounder, Vivian's eyes are Marten's peiercing light blue, and though they're not shaped the same way as Marten's in this strip, Marten's eyes had a very  hard night.  Compare first panel Marten in 1785 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1785) with Ms. Reed's eyes inthe 3rd panel of 1820.  
Plenty of times cousins don't look much alike.  Or it could be a related-by-marriage (NO not their own, get your minds out of the gutter) situation, or a half-relation situation like jwhouk suggested.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: bicostp on 18 Dec 2010, 21:27
Two characters have bags under their eyes therefore THEY MUST BE RELATED! :-o
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 18 Dec 2010, 21:29
The eyes got me thinking - and part of me is really hoping this DOESN'T happen, but it would completely and totally shut down any shipping in this forum:

Marty and Mom are sitting there talking when Hannelore stops in to the apartment. And, she promptly says four words that would have everyone in this forum speechless:

"Oh, hi Aunt Ronnie."

Sadly by posting it... it will never come to be.  Rule 29.3 section 12, paragraph 91,  line seven of Weekly Comic Discussion:  "If you post it,  Jeph won't do it."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: LeeC on 18 Dec 2010, 21:40
so the fact that hanners rarley sleeps does come into consideration about the bags under her eyes? seriously come on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Dec 2010, 04:06
It made a good off-the-cuff joke, but it doesn't deserve a lot more consideration, it seems to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 19 Dec 2010, 05:13

So let me get this straight: Hannah knows Mrs Reed is her aunt, and knows her well enough to recognise her, but had somehow never met her cousin Marten before it turned out they lived in the same building? And Mrs Reed had never thought to tell him about his cousin?

Well, I guess we had the speculation about whether she was Dora's mother back in 436 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436)...


Actually if Hanners calls her "Aunt Ronnie" or "Aunt Vance" she may not connect her with "Mrs. Reed."

Fun bit of speculation but sadly the Rules have been invoked,  it'll never happen.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Rusty on 19 Dec 2010, 07:51

So let me get this straight: Hannah knows Mrs Reed is her aunt, and knows her well enough to recognise her, but had somehow never met her cousin Marten before it turned out they lived in the same building? And Mrs Reed had never thought to tell him about his cousin?

Well, I guess we had the speculation about whether she was Dora's mother back in 436 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436)...


Actually if Hanners calls her "Aunt Ronnie" or "Aunt Vance" she may not connect her with "Mrs. Reed."

Fun bit of speculation but sadly the Rules have been invoked,  it'll never happen.

why aunt vance?

did hanners dad/mom hire her?


.....oh jesus. "Its ok honey, shes helping me clean up the bodyparts hard to get!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: akronnick on 19 Dec 2010, 13:40
why aunt vance?

did hanners dad/mom hire her?


.....oh jesus. "Its ok honey, shes helping me clean up the bodyparts hard to get!"



You see what happened jwhouk?!

This is why we can't have nice things!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Dec 2010, 15:59
Yeah, yeah, I know.

Still - it'd be hilarious if Hannelore already knew Veronica from somewhere else. Like, say, she was dad's girlfriend at one point.

Of course, I'm bracing for the patented "Catatonic Hannelore Horror Stare" when she finds out who Marten's mom is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: Wiregeek on 19 Dec 2010, 23:02
I finally figured out what's bothering me about Fridays strip... Martens mom looks old... Which really is the only complaint I've ever had about the new art, so all in all I'm happy.

Also, holy crap this iPhone is horrid
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: The Duke on 20 Dec 2010, 09:53
Sadly by posting it... it will never come to be.  Rule 29.3 section 12, paragraph 91,  line seven of Weekly Comic Discussion:  "If you post it,  Jeph won't do it."

I don't think that's true, judging by all the "called it" posts I've seen in my time here.  More accurate would be "nothing you post, however awesome it would be, will cause Jeph to change what he has planned."
Title: Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Post by: tomart on 20 Dec 2010, 17:23
"nothing you post, however awesome it would be, will cause Jeph to change what he has planned."

and that's probably best for all concerned.


I think some were missing the earlier point about her looking old COMPARED TO HER FIRST APPEARANCE.
 
Yes, there can be lots of justifications for her looking her age, etc, etc, but I was disappointed that she didn't look nearly as good as that first visit, and it was only 2 or so years ago...(?)