THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: mike837go on 27 May 2011, 12:04
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Pulled from the WCDT (1931-35)
<snip> kudos to Jim for being so understanding. I see the similarities with Marten. :-)
Same author for both character have anything to do with that?
Strange thought: Are there any truly unsympathetic MALE characters in this strip?
I know Steve can be a jerk sometimes, but it's the women and the 'bots that cause most of the trouble.
{donning the fireproof suit now}
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Copied from WCDT (1931-35):
Sven was the unsympathetic male in the comic, rich, successful, didn't have to do much in life, just coasted along and has presumably a crapton of money. I say was, because since Faye mentally castrated him, Sven has become a little bit more sympathetic.
But there aren't many characters that has been designed to be "hated". Or if they are, they're usually just one shot characters we might not see again.
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It all has to do with perspective, because I feel zero sympathy for Marten whenever anything happens to him. He's pretty much a blank slate character that just reacts to the people around him.
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But is Marten truly UNsympathetic?
He's been described in the forums as a "manatee on codene" many times. But does that make his as annoying as say The Vespavenger?
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Dale is unsympathetic.
He's creepy, he keeps showing up when he isn't wanted, and he's all but threatened Marigold. He's almost to the point where she should take a restraining order out against him.
Oh, and Agent Turing. He's a dick.
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Ah, yes forgot about them. Thanks.
We' haven't heard much from Agent Turing lately.
But, Dale, oooohhh I would like to see him given a one-way bus ride. Grrrr.
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No bus, but a comeuppance would be nice.
The whole Gendo thing is really getting annoying. I wanna see Mari-chan dancing on the ashes of his dark-elf-or-whatever-he-plays-in-WoW.
Oh, and Steve is only marginally sympathetic, at best. I've never really been fond of him. No matter how kick-ass his exploits were, he's still a bit of a dick.
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Dale is unsympathetic.
He's creepy, he keeps showing up when he isn't wanted, and he's all but threatened Marigold. He's almost to the point where she should take a restraining order out against him.
But you don't see a potential love interest there? They are both of different rival servers - I am thinking a Romeo and Juliet angle here, but any get together is very very very much in the future.
Hostilities started with Marigold anyway:
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1668 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1668)
Round two, Marigold tells Dale to bring it....
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1680 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1680)
And then Dale pops up now and again and only comments concerning WoW rather than any direct threat against her physically. I see all of his comments to be base upon server rivalty rather than a desire to see harm to her.
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I submit that for a strict definition of "Unsympathetic", it is unlikely that anyone in the comic has felt sympathy for Jimbo. Awe, disgust, head-shaking astonishment, the desire for an air freshener, but not sympathy.
But for a more straightforward explanation, I just don't think Jeph likes writing arseholes. A totally unsympathetic character is a two-dimensional one, as I'm sure we all agree, and he likes to flesh them out a bit. The closest he's come to a genuinely bad person in QC was the VespaVenger, and even she had a Freudian excuse and a website full of fans.
Also, with regards to Dale: I've said in other threads that if you try to slant your perspective just a little, what he's doing is actually as creepy as all hell with serious stalker and implied-threat undertones. Pretty much everyone in-universe takes him with good humour, and when he's not trying to intimidate Marigold he's a regular guy, but I'd like to see more of him as a person rather than a rejected Saturday Morning Cartoon villian.
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I find Dale to be pretty sympathetic to be honest, he and Marigold have always been a bit flirty.
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I find Dale to be pretty sympathetic to be honest, he and Marigold have always been a bit flirty.
Apparently you have a completely different definition to flirty compared to the rest of the world. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1895)
Right now, Dale is probably the closest thing the comic has to a (semi) regular jerkass character.
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Early Angus deeply bothered a lot of people here.
EDIT: Marten thought Dale and Marigold might be flirting: http://www.questionablecontent.net/1680
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I always read what Dale's doing as flirting. Sort of a flirt-rivalry where Marigold's taking the rivalry part more seriously. Sure, if it happened in the real world just as depicted it wouldn't be cute, but I think things get exaggerated for comic effect in comics.
So no, I don't think there are any unsympathetic male characters. Or female characters. There aren't any real villains -- they all seem to have good intentions even if they don't pull it off so well.
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Hannermom was described as "evil" by her own daughter in 1152.
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There's evil and there's unsympathetic. At the end of the storyline, you get the impression that Beatrice knows that she has missed out a lot on Hanners growing up, and in the process you kinda feel sorry for her for that, because there isn't that much connecting her and Hanners. She is evil, but she is somewhat redeemed, at least in the eyes of the readers, by that admission.
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The only male character I've never had any sympathy for was Dave.
Fucking Dave. (>_>)
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But he got his girl...
(leaving Steve in the lurch yet again)
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But he got his girl...
(leaving Steve in the lurch yet again)
Got his girl...despite having his shot earlier and Meena having broken up with him. Then proceeds to steal Meena while she is dating Steve. Oh and he is perfect too. Yep, a completely sympathatic character. /sarcasm.
Basically, Dave is one of the few characters I dislike to the point of hatred.
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Also, as I recall, he was always drawn with his eyes shut...
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Except for one occassion, but that might be because he was able to find some hobo and steal his eyes, replacing the black soulless pits that are hidden behind his eyelids.
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Dave wasn't so much a character as he was a plot device.
Same for Tortura...
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Even though Clinton had a story that made Hanners feel sorry for him, I still don't think it justifies stalking her to her workplace and taking a photo of her to put online without her permission.
On one level I guess I can see why he did what he did but it doesn't explain the creepy way he went about it.
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Yea I'd have to say Dale is annoying, but I don't think thats going to be the same. He seems a lot like a nerd trying to date someone (Marigold), and of course screwing it up. I definitely see a nerd romance in the future between those two.
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Actually, considering Meena's the one who cheated on Dave, then broke up with him, only to go back to him while she was dating Steve, doesn't that make her the unsympathetic one? (Then again, Dave did say that he respected their relationship, only to go and propose to her while she was still dating Steve, so...yeah...)
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Strange thought: Are there any truly unsympathetic MALE characters in this strip?
How about Pretentious Record Store Dude (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=324) AKA Nappy McTurtleneck?
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Good catch!
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But...but... he's a one-off for the punchline, not a character! We don't know a thing about him. You might as well cite the evil genious on the island from Steve's DoKYA days!
Very unsympathetic. Stereotypically so, in fact.
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Not to mention the buskers; they were pretty much arseholes.
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TBH I know folks will disagree with me on this one. But I think Steve is an out and out douche! I can't stand him.
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Well "truely unsympathetic" means to me that the person in question really lacks any redeemable qualities.
I guess Vespavenger is a nobrainer. Attempted murder in three cases, for no good reason whatsoever, if you do that, you truely proven yourself to be not a part of the nice crowd.
Very likely Hanners mom is the #2 entry. Even if its played for laughts, she is very likely to have commited a lot of crimes. We dont know how many and what kind, though.
To anyone else, it really depends upon how strict you are. I wouldnt give anyone else on the strip the "truely unsympathetic" label.
Personally I would call the most likely candidate for the next entry Sven. He pretty much hurt feelings of women left and right without ever thinking about it. Obviously he is currently trying to redeem himself.
Faye of course was a total bitch who is slowly progressing into a somewhat nicer human being.
Steve can be quite ... ignorant, but he isnt doing it on purpose and a very honest kind of guy.
Marten had a moment of major ***holery with Faye, but he was stone drunk, had broken up with Dora, and he has an otherwise clean record, and even Faye forgave him this incident.
Angus was horribly superannoying when he was introduced. He got massively better, though.
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I can't think of any truly unsympathetic characters at all, except maybe Hannelore's mother. Even Vicky just made a mistake, no worse than what Sven does practically every time we see him.
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Good point: before the Pugnacious Peach rewired him, all Sven had going for him was superficial charm.
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Just wondering, who came up with the nickname "Pugnacious Peach"? It makes sense, but I'm just wondering if it was in the comic or if it's a forum invention.
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It was a forum invention after Marten's little "indiscretion" that she blamed on owls, IIRC.
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I think there's a divide here between people who are thinking of "Male characters for whom I personally feel no sympathy towards" and "Male characters who it is completely impossible for anyone to feel sympathy for".
I acknowledge the lack of the latter, but I'm not surprised. I can think of very few characters, in all of fiction, who fit into that category. Of the former, there are quite a number of possibilities, depending on personal views.
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I think the closest I can come to a truly unsympathetic character, in any fiction, would be The Joker. Even then the writers did take a few shots at making him seem a little sympathetic, but then he simply laughs it off, acknowledges that he truly doesn't care about anything in his past that might make him sympathetic, and proceeds to murder a busload of orphans for the sheer fun of it.
The closest we can come to someone with antics like that would be, of course, Pintsize. Who has indicated that he enjoys traumatising orphans, and has a great fondness for weapons of mass destruction.
Therefore, the only male character in QC for whom one cannot feel true sympathy is Pintsize. Even though he's only technically "male" and the lack of sympathy is mostly because he's not nothing to be sympathetic about. Little dude is a ball of tiny blue chaos, there's nothing about him to feel bad for.
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Therefore, the only male character in QC for whom one cannot feel true sympathy is Pintsize. Even though he's only technically "male" and the lack of sympathy is mostly because he's not nothing to be sympathetic about. Little dude is a ball of tiny blue chaos, there's nothing about him to feel bad for.
I beg to differ about "its" gender. Or the proper terminology to use. I dunno, Gender Fluid? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1812)
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It's been established that, for whatever it is worth, Pintsize is a male character (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=347). It may mean nothing more than a preprogrammed setting, but he identifies as specifically male, so he counts.
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It's been established that, for whatever it is worth, Pintsize is a male character (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=347). It may mean nothing more than a preprogrammed setting, but he identifies as specifically male, so he counts.
For all we know, Pintsize's downloads of porn might've corrupted the memory abit, so in that one instance, he was a she for a fleeting moment.
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Someone's projecting...
:-D
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I think the closest I can come to a truly unsympathetic character, in any fiction, would be The Joker. Even then the writers did take a few shots at making him seem a little sympathetic, but then he simply laughs it off, acknowledges that he truly doesn't care about anything in his past that might make him sympathetic, and proceeds to murder a busload of orphans for the sheer fun of it.
The Joker is easily more sympathetic than other characters. The breakdown he had the one time that the Martian Manhunter telepathically forced him to realize how much suffering he was causing, for example, was pretty well done (and on the flipside, his speech during that otherwise horrible Emperor Joker bit where he explains why he's planning to wink all of Existence, well, out of it).
Plus, there is this:
(http://i.imgur.com/vljOD.jpg)
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Someone's projecting...
:-D
I don't have a mechanical/cyborg fetish.
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I beg to differ about "its" gender. Or the proper terminology to use. I dunno, Gender Fluid?
OK, I know you were tryingto say that an AntroPC's gender is a fluid thing, but Gender Fluid just sounds too much like happy batter.
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I beg to differ about "its" gender. Or the proper terminology to use. I dunno, Gender Fluid?
OK, I know you were tryingto say that an AntroPC's gender is a fluid thing, but Gender Fluid just sounds too much like happy batter.
I dunno, i'm getting confused at all the "alternative" genders out there. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer)
I remember at one party, I was like: "Wait, I don't call you transgendered, just ...in transition?"
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I usually just ask their name...
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Exactly. If someone gets mad at you referring to them by their name, you shouldn't be associating with them. The fact that our language is pronoun-deficient is annoying, though.
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Exactly. If someone gets mad at you referring to them by their name, you shouldn't be associating with them. The fact that our language is pronoun-deficient is annoying, though.
Ugh, my previous comment is just one of my many adventures into my subset of friends. Oddly enough, it all started with silverware.....
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A knoife, by any chance? :laugh:
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**Ahem**
As the troll who started this thread, I would like to get back on topic.
The question is "Truly unsympathetic male characters in THIS strip?"
My opening statements excluded the 'bots and the women.
So far we've got Dale, Dave and Agent Turing. With a couple of one-timers that were set up as the butt of the joke.
Any other candidates?
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Dale's a chill bro.
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cat_rant nominated Steve.
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Yeah, Steve can be a jerk sometimes, "I can do way better than that!" comes to mind. But generally, he's a good friend to Marten and has treated Cosette well.
Dale's constant baiting of Marigold puts him on my list for a free bus ticket. Being that rude constantly is NOT flirting!
All of the others mentioned so far haven't been seen in some time.
But, Jeph just brought Raven back from exile, so we can't count anybody 'out', ever, can we?
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I doubt Mr Whitaker will be coming back...
Special case:
His 'existance' in the strip was only through flashback.
Not to speak ill of the dead, but, I guess he should be considered as very unsympathetic.
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cat_rant nominated Steve.
Thanks Is it cold in here? :) I have been considering my major dislike of Steve over the past few days. I have come to realize that I was reading every comment by Steve as dead pan and not considering somethings might just be a flip remark. In fact Steve may be one of the more honest & open characters as it would appear he does not censor himself. Also some folks said - everybody has a friend like Steve. Perhaps it is a cultural thing but I can honestly say I don't know someone with that type of personality. Bottom line is I think I dislike Steve because I cannot relate to him. Is he truly unsympathetic? Perhaps not, but he can come across as a real ass depending on how you read him.
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I doubt Mr Whitaker will be coming back...
Special case:
His 'existance' in the strip was only through flashback.
Not to speak ill of the dead, but, I guess he should be considered as very unsympathetic.
Not really: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=939
That's assuming it wasn't all the fault of Hostess Fruit Pie addiction (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=670).
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Hanner's Dad might be truly unsympathetic either that or totally disinterested. He did after all say.... I am too busy to talk - but your not pregnant right ? Just a thought.
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Hanner's Dad might be truly unsympathetic either that or totally disinterested. He did after all do say.... I am too busy to talk - but your not pregnant right ? Just a thought.
We'd need the backstory to truly judge that. Maybe he resents Hannelore leaving the space station to pursue life on Earth or something.
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Not really: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=939
That's assuming it wasn't all the fault of Hostess Fruit Pie addiction (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=670).
To get picky: Both of your citations were guest comics and therefore not cannon.
Especially, since #670 was just a prank by the bigest pain-in-the-posterior, Pintsize!
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Hanner's Dad might be truly unsympathetic either that or totally disinterested. He did after all do say.... I am too busy to talk - but your not pregnant right ? Just a thought.
We'd need the backstory to truly judge that. Maybe he resents Hannelore leaving the space station to pursue life on Earth or something.
As an aside, I would like to see some Hannerdad in the comic.
We've met both parents for Marten, Dora and Faye. But just Hanner's mom. What's Jeph hiding?
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Not really: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=939
That's assuming it wasn't all the fault of Hostess Fruit Pie addiction (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=670).
To get picky: Both of your citations were guest comics and therefore not cannon.
Especially, since #670 was just a prank by the bigest pain-in-the-posterior, Pintsize!
Even if they were done by Jeph, they still wouldn't be artillery pieces.
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Peace!
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You guys make me think of the only characters I do like. Which is only three. I keep wondering why I read this comic. Hanners, Dale, and The vacuum. Hannelore being my favorite. Other than that all the characters are whiny little emo's. Cept the ones who are all broish.
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Yeah, Steve can be a jerk sometimes, "I can do way better than that!" comes to mind.
Can I have a link? Or at least remind me who he said that about. Thanks.
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Actually I too would like to meet Hanneers Dad. :D but just shush - no one tell Clinton when he will be in town. :D
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Yeah, Steve can be a jerk sometimes, "I can do way better than that!" comes to mind.
Can I have a link? Or at least remind me who he said that about. Thanks.
...I could do WAY better than THAT! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1866)
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You guys make me think of the only characters I do like. Which is only three. I keep wondering why I read this comic. Hanners, Dale, and The vacuum. Hannelore being my favorite. Other than that all the characters are whiny little emo's. Cept the ones who are all broish.
Where are you getting "Whiny little emos" from?
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Some of my best friends are whiny little emos, I'll have you know.
In fact if it didn't make me feel like a walking cliché, I'd tell you all about my life and you'd be all "Oh, dude, that is so like QC" and I'd be all "I know right?" and then we'd fist bump.
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You guys make me think of the only characters I do like. Which is only three. I keep wondering why I read this comic. Hanners, Dale, and The vacuum. Hannelore being my favorite. Other than that all the characters are whiny little emo's. Cept the ones who are all broish.
Where are you getting "Whiny little emos" from?
I think he/she was either joking, or provoking.
Some of my best friends are whiny little emos, I'll have you know.
In fact if it didn't make me feel like a walking cliché, I'd tell you all about my life and you'd be all "Oh, dude, that is so like QC" and I'd be all "I know right?" and then we'd fist bump.
Help, I'm drowning in QCliché!
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Help, I'm drowning in QCliché!
NOT funny.
Go stand in the corner for 2 minutes. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1410)
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Maybe that's why I like Angus so much...
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You guys make me think of the only characters I do like. Which is only three. I keep wondering why I read this comic. Hanners, Dale, and The vacuum. Hannelore being my favorite. Other than that all the characters are whiny little emo's. Cept the ones who are all broish.
Where are you getting "Whiny little emos" from?
Marten, Dora, Faye, Marigold. In the beginning I may have gotten the reasons and sympathized, now its just eye gouge worthy. Faye, btw is not nearly as much as she used to be. Just don't like the bitch.
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Wow they are some harsh words DoomMagnet.
I personally think Faye is one of my favorite characters. Just because she has come through her badness and issues to a better place doesn't make her less interesting now.
I think that you should really justify your comments and back them up with valid points or examples if you want them to be considered worthwhile. Also how valid are your comments in the context to the main discussion of this thread? I don't see the any connection between your like or dislike of certain character to the topic being discussed.
I am not having a go, I just don't understand where your comments fit in or what you are trying to contribute here.
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Wow they are some harsh words DoomMagnet.
I personally think Faye is one of my favorite characters. Just because she has come through her badness and issues to a better place doesn't make her less interesting now.
I think that you should really justify your comments and back them up with valid points or examples if you want them to be considered worthwhile. Also how valid are your comments in the context to the main discussion of this thread? I don't see the any connection between your like or dislike of certain character to the topic being discussed.
I am not having a go, I just don't understand where your comments fit in or what you are trying to contribute here.
I don't know, I can understand someone saying that about Marten, Dora and Marigold. Faye I'll give you, but the other three are pretty whiny.
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Marigold is whiny, in the "why don't I have any friends?" sort of way. At least she's bein brought out of her shell some. But Dora? Sure, she's insecure as hell, but was always more apt to make a joke about it than to whine. And when she realized her insecurities were getting the better of her (yes, long after we realized it, and only with help) she decided to do something about it. She had to be forced, but she acquiesced.
Marten occasionally goes "Waaah, my life isn't good", but it's not that often, and lately his life has't been good, so what the hell is he supposed to act like?
I repeat;
I think he/she (DoomMagnet) was either joking, or provoking.
And I'm pretty sure it was the latter, just looking at his/her other posts.
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Good point, but it can be a fine line between mopey and whiny!
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**Ahem*** (again)
This thread is about MALE characters in this strip, regardless of whether we like them or not, that are NOT deserving of our sympathy.
I maintain that there aren't any.
The only one who remotely fits the bill is Dale.
With suggestions that Agent Turing or Steve might fit.
I opened this thread knowing that the women, generally, cause the trouble, just by being who they are.
And Pintsize is the personification of chaos & anarchy.
But which of the men CAUSE that much trouble in Mr. Jacques creation?
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Sven?
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When he was first introduced, maybe. But that was Dora's perspective.
Since 'dating'? Faye, Sven has become very likeable. Even being nice to his sister.
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Private reply sent
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It is, however, for the best if it avoids the public discussion getting personal.
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Removed prior post so it doesn't clog up thread. I'll avoid escalating things from now on.
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As long as there is some humanity in a character, a human being can't help but feeling some sympathy. For a human to be truly unsympathetic, I think it's needed to limit the timeframe down to a single situation.
A truly one-sided character isn't human. And Jeph writes the computers in this strip as pretty human characters...
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PT-410X's owner, if s/he turns out to be male.
Frappucino fratboy.
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I would say that early Angus was more sympathetic than current Angus.
Early Angus was this guy who was attracted to someone, but was totally crap at guessing the right way to approach her, but persevered anyways. He took a couple of shots at it from a couple different angles, and then after a sufficient number of failures, disappeared from the scene, probably to try his luck somewhere more suitable to his style. It's hard not to be sympathetic to the guy. It's hard not to feel for a guy who is out of his element but gives it a go anyhow. And we've all been in the situation where we've just been trying to hard and then not taking the hint, or even noticing the hint until it was far too late. We've all pushed too hard and screwed things up beyond repair, even though our intentions were good.
But then we have Act II Angus. Here he is the Prodigal Angus who wanders back in after a few months and all is forgiven after some very brief and obligatory hazing. Then, without doing anything except being very very boring, he suddenly wins the heart of his maiden fair and the support of all of her friends, despite the complete nuisance he had made of himself earlier. Are we supposed to be sympathetic with that? Someone who effortlessly shrugs off his past, does nothing interesting or exceptional, but becomes the Popular Boy who wins the Sexy Smart Sassy Queen? A guy that is so unfathomably awesome that after he shoots down a shy girl who has bravely given him her first kiss, that same shy girl does an abrupt heel turn and blesses his union with the Queen? How are we supposed to feel sympathetic to a guy who was suddenly given great gifts and accolades, without doing anything to earn them?
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Thought-provoking!
I would quibble, though, on one point of the description of Angus 1.0. The Pugnacious Peach went way beyond a "hint".
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What was he supposed to do climb Mount Everest?
And since when are women to be won by acts of gallantry, or whatever else you feel is needed?
I don't know honestly, after he came back, you see boring, but I see amusing humor. You know what else I see? SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE DRAMA. His lack of drama, maybe to some makes him less interesting, but really, wouldn't a guy who seems to have his shit together be MORE ATTRACTIVE to date?
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I have to agree with Emperor Norton. In addition, he didn't just "shoot Marigold down", but rather preserved the relationship (friendship) that they had. True, he made a bit of a hash of it, but they were drunk, and she was working with a major misinterpretation of the situation! Overall, he acted like a gentleman to her, and that actually won him points in my book!
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I totally agree with the above two comments. Faye has less drama these days too, so maybe that is why is working now with Angus 2.0
Less drama all round is a good thing right?
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Less drama all round is a good thing right?
That depends;
In real life, generally, the less drama the better. Sailing on an even keel is a good way to get to one's destination.
However, we are discussing a work of entertaining fiction. Drama from the characters allows us to live vicariously through their trials and tribulations. Drama allows us to experiance and feel things that we would never be exposed to in a well grounded, real life.
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Eh ... True. But from a story standpoint, it can be useful to have a compare-and-contrast character or characters ... In this case, a couple that more or less has its shit together, in comparison to whatever everyone else has (or hasn't) going on. That contrast can be the seed for further tension/conflct/drama to drive a story along.
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I thought most of the forum agreed Hannerdad was completely unsympathetic after he blew Hanners off. Maybe he did something in the background to redeem himself that I wasn't aware of, but personally somebody who sacrifices family at the cost of work - no matter how amazing their accomplishments - is a scumbag. At least Hannermom made the effort to reach out, Hannerdad just wanted to know if she was pregnant, probably so he could experiment on the baby in preparation for his new line of robobabies.
Clinton also came off unsympathetic originally, though Jeph gave him a Freudian excuse.
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Agree with the Emperor on Angus - could be called boring, but even-tempered, calm, rational seems to work well with today's Peach.
But I really have no sympathy for Dale. His recent appearances have all left Mari-chan upset, afraid, embarrassed, angry. This is flirting? Frightening your intended is fine, as long as you get their attention and stir up SOME kind of emotions? Is this primate-flirtation? Maybe it works with baboons, but if it works on Marigold, I'm gonna be sick.
Please, make the scary creep go away. I couldn't stand to see him with her, ever.
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Maybe we can hope for Marigold to, after Dale tries to convince her to go out with him, deliver a reason you suck speech based on his insulting her and the like and that she might be lonely but she isn't that desperate? Either that or that Dale has an evil twin sabotaging him.
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Has Dale really gone beyond socially normal gaming taunts? That Marigirl started? And crossed the line into real life by refusing a tip to someone who has to work three jobs?
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Has Dale really gone beyond socially normal gaming taunts? That Marigirl started? And crossed the line into real life by refusing a tip to someone who has to work three jobs?
I thought the first time they met was the whole pizza ordering where Marigold refused to tip. Yes, that was a bit rude but she had no way of knowing that he had to work three jobs, not until later anyhow. He also has popped up randomly as little 'shocks' at night, he came into the COD shop and mocked her for a while. It might be just his way of trying to either get a reaction or something similar but it does feel a bit...if not creepy at least really really weird.
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Yes, really weird maybe. But mostly, it strikes me as extremely similar to how a lot of boys acted towards girls when we were about ten years old. Didn't work very well with most of the girls, though.
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I don't think you can go looking for very much in the way of adult maturity when talking about people that allow their online gaming habits to overflow into their interactions with people in the real world.
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I don't think you can go looking for very much in the way of adult maturity when talking about people that allow their online gaming habits to overflow into their interactions with people in the real world.
Exactly my point, although I have to say Dale is often more mature than most of the cast. But this thing, flirting with Marigold, is something neither he nor her have a clue about how to handle with maturity.
Was there something wrong with my English there? That last sentence didn't feel quite right... don't know why, though.
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But this thing, flirting with Marigold, is something neither he nor she has a clue about how to handle with maturity.
Fixed. He matches she, and "neither he nor she" is a singular subject.
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Many thanks :)
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But this thing, flirting with Marigold, is something neither he nor she has a clue about how to handle with maturity.
Fixed. He matches she, and "neither he nor she" is a singular subject.
Zero taking the singular form (like "neither is") has and still does seem wrong, since 0 ≠ 1. It's the one grammar rule (that I can think of) that I refuse to follow.
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Think of it as an expansion of "neither has a clue". It's common that an apparently plural modifier of the subject can make the singular verb seem uncomfortable; the same happens in the form "neither of them has a clue". Allowing the plural verb in at that point is not uncommon, though; I don't correct it out of text-book strictness (which I disapprove of), but because it actually seems wrong to me (because I feel that keeping the logic of language consistent helps comprehension in the long run).
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Exactly my point, although I have to say Dale is often more mature than most of the cast. But this flirting thing is something neither Marigold nor Dale have a clue about handling with maturity.
There we go.
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Think of it as an expansion of "neither has a clue". It's common that an apparently plural modifier of the subject can make the singular verb seem uncomfortable; the same happens in the form "neither of them has a clue".
See, that seems wrong to me, too. I would definitely use "neither have". I'll put it this way, would you say "both has a clue"? Because that's the same thing, "neither has/have" = "both do not have".
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I'd say, " both have clues," or " both havethe clue," depending on whether multiple peope had awareness or possession of the same clue. In the ase of the singular "neither," I think of it as an implied (one): "Niether (one) has a clue."
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"Both" is plural; "neither" is not. But I'll leave that there - the main reason the original sentence felt wrong was the mismatch of "he and her", which was the essential correction.
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Exactly my point, although I have to say Dale is often more mature than most of the cast. But this thing, flirting with Marigold, is something neither he nor her have a clue about how to handle with maturity.
It's your first sentence that I quibble with; more mature?
Devoted to a MMORPG
Wearing glowing glasses that impair his sight
Calling a grown woman "a lil baby"
Daaaaaaaaang!
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"Both" is plural; "neither" is not. But I'll leave that there - the main reason the original sentence felt wrong was the mismatch of "he and her", which was the essential correction.
Yeah, the he and her correction was necessary. But technically, "neither" should not be singular or plural. But since there's not a third option, it makes more sense to treat "neither" as plural, and "plural" in the grammar sense as meaning "not one" (rather than more than one), since singular explicitly means "one".
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We're getting mixed up over which word is the subject in the specific case at hand; the subject is one of "he" and "she". The surrounding construct: neither...nor... (like either...or...), is merely a means of presenting alternative subjects. The verb must then agree with each subject individually (i.e. in our case be singular). In a case where the alternative subjects themselves disagree in number (either he or they), grammarians disagree - some say the verb must then be plural, and some that it should take the number of the nearest subject (I'd say the second, but normally put the plural subjects after the singular ones anyway).
There's a good account of this (because it mostly agrees with me!) here (http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp).
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I don't believe that any of the male characters are inherently unsympathetic. If they seem that way now, it's probably just because we don't have enough information. Have you ever disliked somebody at first, then grew to like them as you got to know them better? There are reasons to empathise with every well-rounded character. It's a testament to Jeph's writing that none of us can agree on a wholly unlikeable one.
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Actually, you may have convinced me for "neither", since the is/are doesn't refer to the neither itself, but to the singulars within. However, using the singular for "none" is where I draw the line.
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Sure - that's different. But consider "none" as short for "not one", and that works too.
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"none" as short for "not one"
Not gonna lie. My mind is blown. (Seriously, I never realized that "none" is a contraction). But would you say "there is zero" or "there are zero"?
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I'd say: "There ain't any."
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(Seriously, I never realized that "none" is a contraction)
The Shorter Oxford shows "none" as a word in its own right from Old English times (nan), derived initially from Old Frisian (nen), derived in turn from Old Norse (neinn = ne + an meaning not one ); but I think my point stands.
But would you say "there is zero" or "there are zero"?
"There are zero somethings"; but contrast with: "there is no something". Presumably I am considering the "somethings" or "something" the actual subject (I need to go and think about the correct parsing of those! Please bear in mind that English is not my subject - but it was my mother's.).
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I'd say: "There ain't any."
I'd say: "There ain't no."
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Yeah but tat's a double negative, and those just jam your camera.
Now, two negatives make a positive. It can be shown two positives make a negative.
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Depends on whether you're adding or multiplying.
And I ain't got no camera.
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Okay, so. Dale is neither creepy (well, maybe slightly) nor mean. He is just playfully flirting with Marigold--yes, flirting. He likes her, and maybe she likes him too. Like Mari, Dale's kind of awkward, and might not have had much luck with girls (like Marigold's had rough luck with guys), so his flirting looks like meanness. I hope he shows up in the story again, there's definitely something there.
Edit: ooh, ooh, what if he somehow showed up at the party and asked Marigold to dance??? Ok, yeah, not likely, but I can hope.
And Jeph may not like writing arseholes, but he certainly likes to write bitches. :evil:
:-D
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wow this thread has twisted all around every sort of subject.
First: OP, I appreciate your decision to disagree with some of the replies, but I don't think you appreciate their decision to disagree with you. Not including Steve in your list of "proposed unsympathetic male characters" is pretty much just censoring others' opinions because they don't match your own. I mean, it is only a proposed list, right?
Now, my opinions: I like Steve, but I think if I had to choose an unsympathetic character, it would be him. He's a pretty well fleshed out character, so of course he has redeeming qualities (no one is purely evil), but he seems rather self-centered a majority of the time. He has had exceptions. Anyway, I don't think I actually contributed anything here that wasn't said already. I just wanted to agree with it.
Dale is not creepy. This is a matter of opinion, because depending on your point of view, he certainly seems creepy. Since we have very little background on him, there's a lot of assuming about his motives. He may or may not be flirting, but he is almost certainly being playful. I know people who are hardcore WoW nerds (this is not meant as an insult. I was married to one, as well as having several acquaintances on my old server when I played that fit this category. I was pretty addicted for a while as well), and I would say you kind of have to use a different standard of "normal" when applying motivations to Dale and Marigold. You also have to have more information to go on than we do, so really it's open to speculation at this point. I'm kind of basing a lot of my opinion of him on his rapport with the rest of the cast, which seems fairly normal. It's likely if he were really a creeper, they would be more hostile toward him.
English lessons: I think this tangent is winding down, but as pertains to double negatives, I like to think of them like multiplication, if you consider "positive" to be the same as "not negative" in the context of language. Then again, I'm from the south, so I have a tendency to ignore certain grammatical rules (or at least relax them), kind of like drunk Faye. It just comes out sometimes.
I think I've covered all points that I care to cover.
TLDR: Censoring=bad, Dale=good, English=math
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Yeah, Steve is a dick, basically. I never liked him.
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Aw, why so much Dale hate? I love Dale! I guess I understand the "mean" rivalry sort of flirting -- some people just prefer to lightly rip on their friends and such. I'm waiting for a Dale/Marigold storyline to develop once Marigold has come out of her shell a bit more. Seems to me like Dale has mad respect for her since she is so good at her MMOs and perhaps, a bit threatened? I guess that's why he rips on her. And besides! Dale must be pretty alright if he knows about the secret menu! http://www.questionablecontent.net/1640 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1640)
I don't think there are any truly unsympathetic male characters, and very few female characters. The only one that really comes to mind is Marten's ex, but that's for a different thread.
And yeah, Steve is kind of a douche, but he's a bro...that's to be expected. I think he's the most unsympathetic (major) male character but, ah. It's been said before, we all have friends like Steve.
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Oh, and Angus is a dick for what he did to Mari. Absolutely, 100 percent.
"We're just friends." Yeah, which was not even Mari's decision in the slightest, but all yours, asshole.
And then the way he tried to be like "Well, why are you attracted to me, I mean I don't even blah blah blah and blah" as if it would make him feel better to think that she never had any good reason for being attracted to him. As if she HAD to have a reason.
Angus is still a dick, so I guess it's appropriate that he got with Faye.
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"We're just friends." Yeah, which was not even Mari's decision in the slightest, but all yours, asshole.
The fuck? He's a dick because he turned her down as gently as possible? So what, he didn't have the right to turn her down at all because you identify with her rejection? And you don't think months of living together with nothing happening between them might have given him the wrong idea?
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He's a dick because:
He rejected Mari and went right for Faye without even letting the fucking tears dry from Mari's face...
He did lead her on, and nothing will convince me otherwise...
He tried to find reasons to feel okay about rejecting her, like saying "well, why do you suddenly like me now, you never did before..blahhhhh blah"
He didn't even really talk to Mari after it happened, he just let her languish for days and eating nothing but Pocky and be miserable.
And more reasons that I will think of some other time but no, there's no way that what he did was right.
Whether I identify with it or not is irrelevant, I'm not bringing myself or my life into this, this is a comic discussion board to discuss characters. Angus is not real and I will say about him what I please.
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The strips only give glimpses of the characters' lives. We can conjecture what happens at other times, but building up a complete scenario as you are doing can easily turn into fan-fiction. Your desire to see the life of the characters in this comic as unpleasant in various ways is getting a bit tedious, I'm afraid.
Frankly, I feel this was never really a good thread anyway.