THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 02 Jul 2011, 09:11
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Up a couple days early due to the Holiday weekend (by the way, a late Happy Canada Day, eh? to our friends north of the border).
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It's funny, I was thinking that Dora was becoming less of a central character, but if anything, this is her becoming an actual main character. While she was dating Marten, she was less her own character, and almost everything that had to do with Dora was an interaction with one of the two uncontested main characters (Marten and/or Faye). But now there's an arc that's actually about Dora, and how her decisions affect her.
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According to the Strip Character Count over on the Wiki, Dora's actually appearing less in the strip than before. She's still third overall ahead of everyone else except Faye & Marten, but she's been in fewer than 40% of the strips since the workout arc with Pen and Faye.
Dora had actually pulled ahead of Marten in appearances, between the workout arc and Jeph's 1st wedding anniversary. But she's returned to her third-banana status since then.
Of course, Faye/Marten/Dora have had more appearances combined than practically every other character with more than one appearance in the strip, so YMMV.
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about quantity of appearances, I'm talking about how her appearances now concern her own life, rather than her impact on Marten or Faye, and I also meant starting with this arc.
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next week;
Marigold goes John Travolta at the party.
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She cuts off Nicholas Cage's face and wears it?
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She cuts off Nicholas Cage's face and wears it?
She tries to convert the rest of the party to Scientology and pass out copies of Battlefield Earth.
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Actually, I was thinking more of Saturday Night Fever.
But you could always go the Pulp Fiction route. :D
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She snorts heroin thinking it's coke and he has to give her an injection of adrenalin straight to the heart?
I really don't see that happening to Marigold.
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I want to see graphs.
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She snorts heroin thinking it's coke and he has to give her an injection of adrenalin straight to the heart?
I really don't see that happening to Marigold.
You never can tell.
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She snorts heroin thinking it's coke and he has to give her an injection of adrenalin straight to the heart?
I really don't see that happening to Marigold.
You never can tell.
Yeah
After all, she does spend most of her time in her room drinking Cola, eating Poky, Playing WoW and watching Anime
OMG! She's a Stoner!!!!!
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I'm just thinking that something potentially innoucuous,but socially difficut for Marigold will happen and we get a cheap laugh and the forums will explode with cries in support of her, cries of rage that no-one is that socially inept and more cries for what's going on with Dora and Jim.
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You never can tell.
Ok, maybe if they start playing Chuck Berry at the party, then anything's possible...
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Right, I have a question for today. Where's Will Smith and is he going to go up and whoop E.T.'s ass?
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Not sure, but if he's gotta do that I need a moment to switch my brain into "neutral" to enjoy the pretty explosions.
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Wow.
YB with a machine pistol.
Now I truly know the meaning of fear. :psyduck:
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I feel sorry for the tiger.
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I move that just for today, we refer to Sweet-Tits as Freedom-Tits. In favor?
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you've got my vote. But as long as it's only for today.
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She's gonna be just as mad, so ... Sure.
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Yes, I know Freedom is America's mantra, but every time I hear Freedom, I think of the last scene in Braveheart. Can Freedom Day be a mutual holiday between the US and Scotland?
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Freedom-tits...does this mean she has to go without a bra?
I am in favor of that!
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Any country where freedom reigns can celebrate freedom day. :)
And I think if Sweet-tits stops wearing a bra, she won't be sweet tits for long.
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I had forgotten that all birds within a species have a cloaca, not just the females. This provides some disturbing possibilities for our anthropomorphic friend ._.
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Happy fucking Freedom Day.
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Freedom-tits...does this mean she has to go without a bra?
I am in favor of that!
No reason why it can't mean that! :-D :mrgreen:
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Have fun partying! And a happy 235th to US.
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N.B. Freedom does not include letting bear-hat guy back onto this forum.
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I just realized that the comic numbers have reached the point that people posting here may have actually been alive in the years equivalent to those numbers. So, what happened in the summer of '61?
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I did not know that the freedom to snort bath salts out of a tiger's ass was guaranteed in the constitution for you lucky Americans. This comic can be so educational! I trust that you're all going to follow the bird's example right away? It's your duty as free citizens of a free nation!
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So, what happened in the summer of '61?
That was the year that my performance of Greig's piano piece To the Spring gained the highest mark in any class that year in the Kent Music Festival :-P
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Any country where freedom reigns can celebrate freedom day. :)
And I think if Sweet-tits stops wearing a bra, she won't be sweet tits for long.
Freedom isn't raining today over here, but we've got liberty hail. Is that sufficent?
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Ah, freedom ! Or liberty.
Either way - the most easily misuseable word of politics ! :roll:
I estimate about 90% of all national anthems contain that ideal ... and not much else.
The british one is a nice exception btw, because at least it contains the idea of world peace.
So yeah, if some idiot promises you freedom, please, please, pretty PLEASE look VERY carefully WHAT kind of freedom. :|
Quite frankly, in my experience, the people who cry out "freedom" the loudest are those people who just want the freedom of the rich to prey on the poor, by calling it "freedom of choice" or "equality of chances".
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Lemme guess - former GDR denizen?
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Ah, freedom ! Or liberty.
Either way - the most easily misuseable word of politics ! :roll:
I estimate about 90% of all national anthems contain that ideal ... and not much else.
The british one is a nice exception btw, because at least it contains the idea of world peace.
So yeah, if some idiot promises you freedom, please, please, pretty PLEASE look VERY carefully WHAT kind of freedom. :|
Quite frankly, in my experience, the people who cry out "freedom" the loudest are those people who just want the freedom of the rich to prey on the poor, by calling it "freedom of choice" or "equality of chances".
Heh. National anthems we´re more honest when they just said "long live the emporer" :-)
Heil dir im Siegerkranz...*sings*
btw. the soviet russian one has a nice melody.
oh, and happy birthday to the US of A.
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Happy Paperwork Day, Yanks. :wink:
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I just realized that the comic numbers have reached the point that people posting here may have actually been alive in the years equivalent to those numbers. So, what happened in the summer of '61?
Beauregard lead the Battery that fired on Fort Sumter.
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This was a good weekend to be along the Cdn/US border.
Take Friday off - Go North of the Border, consume large quantities of fermented barley and hops while consuming the dead animal of your choice along with french fries, cheese curds and gravy, watch lots of explosions that make pretty patterns in the sky.
Take Monday off - Go south of the Border, quantities of fermented barley and hops while consuming the dead animal of your choice along with deep fried potatoes, watch lots of explosions that make pretty patterns in the sky.
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Beauregard lead the Battery that fired on Fort Sumter.
That was in April, so spring, not summer.
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Yes, I know Freedom is America's mantra, but every time I hear Freedom, I think of the last scene in Braveheart. Can Freedom Day be a mutual holiday between the US and Scotland?
Freedom Day belongs to every Earthican!
And is brought to you by the great taste of Charleston Chew
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This was a good weekend to be along the Cdn/US border.
Take Friday off - Go North of the Border, consume large quantities of fermented barley and hops while consuming the dead animal of your choice along with french fries, cheese curds and gravy, watch lots of explosions that make pretty patterns in the sky.
Take Monday off - Go south of the Border, quantities of fermented barley and hops while consuming the dead animal of your choice along with deep fried potatoes, watch lots of explosions that make pretty patterns in the sky.
Deep fried potatoes? We had baked beans and potato salad with our dead animals of choice (I had chicken and bratwurst, by the way).
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And Jeph: I am disappoint. No Hipster Eagles?
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Any country where freedom reigns can celebrate freedom day. :)
And I think if Sweet-tits stops wearing a bra, she won't be sweet tits for long.
Nah, Bras don't do that.
They only stop sagging while they are being worn. No long term prevention of sagginess (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2868/do-bras-prevent-saggy-breasts) , except in the bra manufacturer's marketing materials.
Some studies found that wearing a bra a lot can increase sagginess over the long term (http://www.007b.com/sagging.php).
So there.
/Bras: a subject I like to look into.
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If the United States Of America was born on 4th July 1776, then according to Chinese astrology, the nation is a Fire Monkey... Happy birthday, America!
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Beauregard lead the Battery that fired on Fort Sumter.
That was in April, so spring, not summer.
I sit in my chair - corrected.
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God save... oh, yeah, you mean:
My country, 'tis of thee
Sweet land of liberty
Of thee I sing
Land where my fathers died
Land of the pilgrim's pride
From every mountainside
Let freedom ring!
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There was a version of the British National Anthem, approved in 1919, published a few times, and then forgotten, whose last verse ran:
Of many a race and birth
From utmost ends of earth
God save us all!
Bid strife and hatred cease
Bid hope and joy increase
Spread universal peace
God save us all!
Also, a couple of verses written in 1836, published in 1904, the second of which was used in the 2008 Olympic ceremonies:
May just and righteous laws
Uphold the public cause,
And bless our isle:
Home of the brave and free,
Thou land of liberty,
We pray that still on thee
Kind heaven may smile.
Nor on this land alone,
But be God's mercies known
From shore to shore:
Lord make the nations see
That men should brothers be,
And form one family
The wide world o'er
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Amhrán na bhFiann
"Soldiers are we,
whose lives are pledged to Ireland,
Some have come
from a land beyond the wave,
Sworn to be free,
no more our ancient sireland,
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the "bearna baoil",
In Erin’s cause, come woe or weal,
’Mid cannon’s roar and rifles’ peal,
We’ll chant a soldier's song"
Though I'm rather more partial to Ireland's Call, even if it is just used by the national Rugby team.
Come the day and come the hour
Come the power and the glory
We have come to answer our country's call
From the four proud provinces of Ireland
Ireland, Ireland
Together standing tall
Shoulder to shoulder
We'll answer Ireland's call
From the mighty glens of Antrim
From the rugged hills of Galway
From the walls of Limerick and Dublin Bay
From the four proud provinces of Ireland
Hearts of steel and heads unbowing
Vowing never to be broken
We will fight until we can fight no more
For the four proud provinces of Ireland
Erin's warriors, clad in emerald
Steadfast souls confront their challenge
'Neath the glass sky they assemble
For the four proud provinces of Ireland
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And we should give the traditional salute to Ol'Freebie!
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/SomebodyED/FlagEating.jpg)
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Woo-woo-woo, nyuk-nyuk-nyuk!
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/Bras: a subject I like to look into.
Fuckin' sigged.
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(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v335/64/17/568184347/n568184347_1240930_1734.jpg)
I hope everyone had an excellent freedom day.
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What terrible beer you display.
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Must - resist- to - make "yo, the 90´s called, they want their bandanas back"-joke :psyduck:
But I´m stronger than that :-)
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Uhh... Is Jeph okay? It's getting pretty late with not a peep from the man.
/should I be worried?
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Last two tweets;
Feeling pretty discouraged about things.
(13 hours ago)
there isn't enough booze in my house #thingsyouneverwanttohearmesay
(23 hours ago)
He's mentioned before that alchohol combines with his anxiety meds in an undesireable way - I'm guessing he's not having a good independence day.
We may get a guest comic. Or, for the first time in a looooong time, nothing but apologies.
I hope he's not injured. Fireworks can do some pretty serious damage...
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BTW, there was a previous comic with fireworks that got changed shortly after it was posted, and some people were sad not to have seen it. The original has just surfaced elsewhere in the forum (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,20434.msg1046918.html#msg1046918).
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BTW, there was a previous comic with fireworks that got changed shortly after it was posted, and some people were sad not to have seen it. The original has just surfaced elsewhere in the forum (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,20434.msg1046918.html#msg1046918).
Huh. I wonder why Jeph changed that. We've seen worse behavior from Yelling Bird and even Pintsize before.
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Ah ! Freedom !
I demand the freedom to complain about LATE COMIC !!! :-D :evil: :roll:
Yes, I know Freedom is America's mantra, but every time I hear Freedom, I think of the last scene in Braveheart. Can Freedom Day be a mutual holiday between the US and Scotland?
Freedom Day belongs to every Earthican!
And is brought to you by the great taste of Charleston Chew
Only once we're able to vote for the american president.
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? The British national anthem is "God Save the Queen", and basically fits the "more honest" theory given by VonKleist above.
Uh hu ummmm.
Ok, I might be wrong. I think I remember it was the british one that mentioned world peace (in one of its many strophes). It was some years ago that I checked out all kinds of national anthems and was deeply annoyed almost all of them only mentioned freedom, but didnt specified WHAT KIND (theres a lot of kinds of freedom, including truely evil ones, for example the nazis announced proudly at some point that "Berlin is free of jews", and invading armies like to call their conquering "freeing the country").
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There are a few national anthems that have no words to go with their tunes, at least no official ones. Spains "Marcha Real" is one of those rarities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcha_Real
They had lyrics during the Franco reign, which were of course abandoned, and since then there´s never been any consensus over any of the proposed lyrics (last someone tried they were deemed "too nationalistic" so...)
:-D
The anthem of the 2. spanish republic was all about "fight to death" and the usual banter..
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Seriously, Jeph, you've been doing this a long time. If you need to take a Sabbatical, by all means do it.
Feel better!
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There are a few national anthems that have no words to go with their tunes, at least no official ones. Spains "Marcha Real" is one of those rarities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcha_Real
The Russians used Glinka's Patriotic song as an anthem (for the purposes of sporting events at least) before they went back to the Soviet anthem. IIRC that song didn't have any lyrics? I guess that was one of the reasons it didn't last as an anthem?
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Last two tweets;
Feeling pretty discouraged about things.
(13 hours ago)
there isn't enough booze in my house #thingsyouneverwanttohearmesay
(23 hours ago)
He's mentioned before that alchohol combines with his anxiety meds in an undesireable way - I'm guessing he's not having a good independence day.
We may get a guest comic. Or, for the first time in a looooong time, nothing but apologies.
I hope he's not injured. Fireworks can do some pretty serious damage...
I was wondering that as well. Usually there's at least one tweet suggesting what is up around this time, but "feeling pretty discouraged about things" isn't very specific. I hope he's just asleep and nothing's wrong.
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That, or the therapists and their enforcers found out he'd been drinking...
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Seriously, Jeph, you've been doing this a long time. If you need to take a Sabbatical, by all means do it.
Feel better!
Seconded. When's the last time Jeph has taken a vacation? I mean, like time off, when he doesn't need to think about QC for a few weeks. I've been reading QC for a year and a half, and I don't remember him doing that. Surely he's entitled to take a vacation once a year like the rest of us.
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I've been reading QC for a couple of years I can't remember if Jeph's ever taken a vacation, exactly. Maybe like a guest week, but he hasn't even done one of those for a bit.
I'm little concerned, honestly.
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Comic's up.
Looks like Dora just had one of those epiphanies that you feel physically.
Shit indeed.
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It's up, but I'll second the concern if he's burnt out.
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We have a comic, but to be honest I was more worried about Jeph's wellbeing than I was about the late update. Those Twitter updates (coupled with the lack of ustreaming and no newspost) make me wonder what is going on. I hope he's okay... :|
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Unless we hear otherwise, I think it would be sensible to assume that Jeph just feels like a few hours of privacy for whatever reason (no concern of ours); he has a very exposed life most of the time, and I know I couldn't stand it.
As for the comic, I guess next we get to see what Jim is really made of.
I can't restrain myself from remarking that in spite of the weird and wonderful theories that get built up in discussions here from time to time, Jeph's own take, through Dora, on what has been going on in her relationship with Marten is refreshingly straight-forward and, well, just uncomplicated.
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I guess Dora, like many of us, simply has occasional Foot-In-Mouth problems.
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This date could turn out to be better for Dora than anyone could have guessed.
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Aww, poor Dora /irony
Now I'm starting to like this date.
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@comic.... worldwide handpalms meet foreheads (with a smacking sound) acompanied by a "oh my goooood,really? ...FUCKING D'OH!"
I didn't know that Jeph is on medication. I dont follow twitter and facebook feeds (because I dislike (hate is spared for dictators and other sick criminials) those concepts).
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No Dora, it was all you. Exactly what did Marten do/not do to contribute to the end of the relationship? Too passive? The final trigger for it ending was his standing up for himself. Even when recognizing her own faults she has blind spots a mile wide.
On Real Life, Jeph, I hope you're doing okay and had an awesome 4th of July with too much drinking, and just woke up and realized that you never posted the comic. Also, good morning.
I didn't know that Jeph is on medication. I dont follow twitter and facebook feeds.
I wouldn't check his twitter feed, but seeing as it's right there on the right I can't help but notice it occasionally. Also, his comic comments have mentioned his medication several times.
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No Dora, it was all you.
While I agree, I don't exactly expect her to admit that to someone she's on a date with. Not even if she's in the middle of being too honest already.
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On Real Life, Jeph, I hope you're doing okay and had an awesome 4th of July with too much drinking, and just woke up and realized that you never posted the comic. Also, good morning.
Me too. Good Morning.
On further note. Fuck Youtube with their fucking copyright issues with the fucking German performance rights organization (GEMA) blocking music on a regular basis. EVEN 40 years old Johnny fucking Cash recordings.... FUCK!
That was swear like a Bavarian "beer transporter" English edition.
No Dora, it was all you.
While I agree, I don't exactly expect her to admit that to someone she's on a date with. Not even if she's in the middle of being too honest already.
I didn't expected that kind of twist in the story. Not that I disagree but that was more of a datekiller than the Joke about still beeing married or Dora's age which would be perfect for breeding.
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Awkward conversation enders, Dora haz it.
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Too passive? The final trigger for it ending was his standing up for himself. Even when recognizing her own faults she has blind spots a mile wide.
Agree with this. Ok, Marten ain't perfect but "a lot of it was him too" just sounds wrong to me. I won't say that it's all her fault. But most of it was totally her fault.
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Awkward silences - definte date-killers.
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also the 'we' in 'we broke up' is kind of misleading. i liked how she put it in the 4th panel of 1960. because it was you, dora. it was
all most of it you.
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No Dora, it was all you. Exactly what did Marten do/not do to contribute to the end of the relationship? Too passive? The final trigger for it ending was his standing up for himself.
I agree with this. In fact, I'd suggest that Dora actually preferred him passive. It may have been a lack of blood sugar (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=858), but we ARE talking about a woman who got angry because Marten didn't consult her before getting a haircut (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=857) (even though, as he pointed out, she changes her hair all the time)
Besides, it probably wouldn't have been nearly as much fun for her to flirt with him (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=108) if he wasn't such a pushover :P
Panel 4 today is the best example of Foot-in-Mouth syndrome I've seen in a veeery long time. :lol:
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I suppose it would be useless to point out that Jeph himself says (what the TVTrope mavens call "Word of God") he tries to write things so that none of his characters are right all the time, or 100 percent right in any given situation.
But my first thought on seeing today's comic was: "Well, this'll keep happy the folks who want Dora's head in a bucket."
No, it didn't. Not really.
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I'm glad the comic's up. Jeph had also mentioned drawing it early because of the holiday festivities. I'm guessing he forgot to set it up to post autmatically, and put it up before passing out.
So, Dora's "Oh, shit". Is it;
1. a sudden (re)epiphany (she knew she was at fault before),
2. a sudden realization that she's now trying to blame Marten,
3. a sudden realization that she just blew the date with Jim (and any hope of a second one),
4. some other sudden realization, such as the literal one - like she just noticed she stepped in some dog residue...
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So, Dora's "Oh, shit". Is it;
1. a sudden (re)epiphany (she knew she was at fault before),
2. a sudden realization that she's now trying to blame Marten,
3. a sudden realization that she just blew the date with Jim (and any hope of a second one),
5. a combination of points 1, 2 and 3. (4 would only occur if her heel broke, she took off said heel and had to walk home bare foot)
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IT WAS YOU DORA! IT WAS YOU ALL ALONG!
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I suppose it would be useless to point out that Jeph himself says (what the TVTrope mavens call "Word of God") he tries to write things so that none of his characters are right all the time, or 100 percent right in any given situation.
But my first thought on seeing today's comic was: "Well, this'll keep happy the folks who want Dora's head in a bucket."
No, it didn't. Not really.
Indeed. That he's trying to write them as fallible humans who say stuff that can be plain wrong is a given, and if I comment on the character actions, it's with that assumed. I can deride someone for being an idiot even with the knowledge that they're supposed to be that way.
I think the only thing that would satisfy those folk is if she actually realized fully just how much of her mess is her own fault (not just dancing around it like now) and somehow set up a guillotine to decapitate herself in the CoD basement (and used it on herself, obviously). With a bucket to catch the head.
I'm glad the comic's up. Jeph had also mentioned drawing it early because of the holiday festivities. I'm guessing he forgot to set it up to post automatically, and put it up before passing out.
So, Dora's "Oh, shit". Is it;
1. a sudden (re)epiphany (she knew she was at fault before),
2. a sudden realization that she's now trying to blame Marten,
3. a sudden realization that she just blew the date with Jim (and any hope of a second one),
4. some other sudden realization, such as the literal one - like she just noticed she stepped in some dog residue...
She doesn't look at Jim the last two panels, so I'm guessing it's an internal revelation, but related to the date (oh damn, I shouldn't have come on this date). So, none of the above I guess.
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Ooooooooooooh Comic ! :lol:
Dora definitely talked before she was thinking ...
And she broke up just some weeks ago with Marten, so its natural theres some akward time afterwards.
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I don't think her "shit" was anything as particular as the suggestions so far - more the realisation that she's exposing her (consciously) uncensored thoughts.
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5. a combination of points 1, 2 and 3.
...So, none of the above I guess.
Gee, I guess I needed the "AOTA" and "NOTA" options after all...
I hate multiple choice. :psyduck:
I don't think her "shit" was anything as particular as the suggestions so far - more the realisation that she's exposing her (consciously) uncensored thoughts.
Sooo... 4, some other reason.
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I almost didn't check for a new comic today, mainly because one of the many strange and not too happy dreams I had last night was of today's comic being Pintsize 69ing with a plushy version of himself.
Somehow, this didn't seem too outrageous to be real.
I prefer Jeph's comic (: And I agree that it was more of a "Why am I talking about this with my ::date::... wait, I shouldn't even be on a date! Shit!"
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Yeah, my thought was "Oh $#!+, I shouldn't have even gone on this DATE."
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So, Dora's "Oh, shit". Is it;
1. a sudden (re)epiphany (she knew she was at fault before),
2. a sudden realization that she's now trying to blame Marten,
3. a sudden realization that she just blew the date with Jim (and any hope of a second one),
4. some other sudden realization, such as the literal one - like she just noticed she stepped in some dog residue...
I took it as:
"I should be dating ANYBODY..."
*realizes she's on a date with somebody*
"Oh shit!"
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About the backward output of the body word - I would say she simply realizes what she just said and that the whole date was pointless, as she isnt ready for dating.
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I hope there's still room on the Call-Bullshit-on-Dora train.
The entire break up was instigated by one Dora Bianchi. The catalyst was Dora's blatant violation of Marten's request for privacy. She suspended work to go and check Marten's porn even though Marten asked her to not do that. He got angry, stood up to her, and called her out on it. The root causes stem from Dora's inferiority complex and her insecurities present, symptoms seen with her irrational blow ups. Honest admission of how much of it is on her would be wonderful. Though now we've seen the Dora version of events, I doubt her stock will go up 'round these parts.
Well, at least Jim got big ol' warning lights. As the old cad has been growing on me, I'm hoping he decides to dodge that bullet.
EDIT
Sweet Baby Jesus on a pogo stick, people, SIX replies? Get back to work!
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That is one of the few joys of working overnights. It makes you free to troll the internets and comment in forums when most others are stuck at work (:
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A completely unrelated note - I think Dora looks gorgeous in that dress. (This is the first time we see her legs on this date, so I realised it just now.)
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wait how was it also "a lot his fault too." Looks like the "duh" monkey just hit Dora on the head.
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I feel that commenting on the breakup and who's at fault is prime schmuck bait, so I will restrict myself to saying that I really like the way Dora's drawn today, especially the legs and her expression in panel 3!
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"A lot of it was him too." I barely noticed that line the first time. She adds it in response to Jim, as sort of a sidenote, to counterbalance her own bias. There are enough people in the forum who do think Marten has issues for it to not be a black and white badguy situation. He did nothing deliberate or hurtful, but the way he handled issues didn't help. He may just have acted as a trigger.
Also, if someone who was always passive suddenly blew up and scared the shit out of me, I would not call it "standing up for himself". Such a significant change in behaviour, whether it's going from aggressive to silent, or silent to aggressive, or happy to sad means more than the behaviour itself. It says the relationship isn't what it used to be. When it occurs after building tensions and multiple fights, few people would say,"Oh, this is a good sign."
So now that Dora has acknowledged that it was her issues, made it "sound like it was totally [her] fault" and admitted that she has to solve this problem before it happens again (panel, 3), what more must be done? From a utilitarian point of view, nothing. She's not hurting anyone right now except maybe Jim (who she woulda hurt worse later).
To be fair, what bothers me is that Dora can't separate her feelings from her behaviour. It comes off as excusey.
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Relative to Dora's first comment ... Wonder if anyone has told her offscreen that M. did sorta try ...
FAYE: "Oh, by the way, assbutt, Marty stopped by the shop the other day while you were moving."
HANNERS : "And we tortured a cyborg nerd who was stalking me ... I wasn't supposed to say that, was I?"
RAVEN: "Aw, I didn't get a boob-grab from the mechanical hand."
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Cross-posting to here, as I suspect the other thread may be locked soon:
"A lot of it was him too"
Wtf? Seriously? She think it was his fault too?
It was 100% her fault. Every single part of that break up belongs to Dora. Crazy psycho women. I used to like her, now I cannot stand her. Kudos for making her so realistic as to dredge up memories of the complete nutjobs I've met in my life.
More Hanners, Marigold, Faye, less psycho women that screws over good guys in the name of "waah, waah, nobody loves me." Marten puts up with ALL her insecurities, buys her gifts, treats her right and she goes all emo on him.
*throws hands up in the air and stomps off*
FYI, When Marty hooked up with Dora and NOT Faye, oh so long ago, I almost gave up on the comic, also, hai, I am new here.
I wouldn't have actually posted, but 1962 makes me wanna Fayepunch someone.
The breakup itself was 100% Dora's insecurities, but come on. That relationship was doomed from the start because Marten had zero backbone to lay down the ground rules to begin with.
What is Dora's biggest named criticism of Marten other than the Faye pining? His lack of decisiveness on a consistent basis. Dora had to pull some pretty insane shit to get Marten to even think about standing up to her.
In all honesty, no woman with any self respect would stay in a relationship with Marten for very long anyway, simply because he is incapable of doing anything on his own. In short: Marten isn't even really an adult, he's an overgrown boy that needs a mother-figure to tell him what to do every minute of every day.
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Yes, but crazy person is still crazy.
Smoke and mirrors might show Marten's issues. But Dora is still a nutjob. What a lot of people are labeling passive here is just plain being nice and perhaps putting someone else's wants ahead of your own. Something you need to do occasionally to make a relationship work.
I am not saying all of Marten's behavior is excusable, he is a bit passive on some things. But it isn't exactly like he is a giant ball of passivity and nothing else. He is a genuinely nice guy, he cares for Dora, loves(d) her, none of the fights they have are initiated by him and he doesn't really do anything wrong. Might be a bit of a blanket statement. But blaming the relationship not working due to Marten, ludicrous. Plus, you guys lay on the passive thing too much, when Dora goes nuts over something and marten states "fuck this, I am leaving" or something to that extent, that is NOT being passive. Passive would just give up and say, yes ma'am.
100% of the fault is Dora's emoness. If she grows up a little, she might be able to have a real relationship, something she (admittedly) has never had.
Long story short:
Dora is whack.
Nice does not equate to passive.
Also, "In all honesty, no woman with any self respect would stay in a relationship with Marten for very long anyway, simply because he is incapable of doing anything on his own. In short: Marten isn't even really an adult, he's an overgrown boy that needs a mother-figure to tell him what to do every minute of every day."
I think you need to go back and read the comic again. Marten is pretty fleshed out, he has mommy issues, but he does most things on his own.
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In all honesty, no woman with any self respect would stay in a relationship with Marten for very long anyway, simply because he is incapable of doing anything on his own. In short: Marten isn't even really an adult, he's an overgrown boy that needs a mother-figure to tell him what to do every minute of every day.
True that. For example, he was unable to go and get a haircut without refering to Dora first.
Oh, wait...
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I'm waiting for the comic where Marten and Jim meet.
I can just see it, Marten walks in, just as Jim is leaving having completed the baking for C.o.D. and about to deliver it. Padma says "Hey Marten." Jim looks up, with a couple of beat panels before saying "You had one lucky escape there kid." Jim leaves, with Marten looks a little perplexed.
Of course, now that I've said it, it won't happen now. :laugh:
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Man, I feel sad now. Poor Dora. Seems like she's drifting into the friends zone with Jim there.
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Hmm, I may be a bit on the bitter side.
For all it is a comic, I would like to see Dora experience some consequences for her actions.
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Yes, but crazy person is still crazy.
Smoke and mirrors might show Marten's issues. But Dora is still a nutjob. What a lot of people are labeling passive here is just plain being nice and perhaps putting someone else's wants ahead of your own. Something you need to do occasionally to make a relationship work.
I am not saying all of Marten's behavior is excusable, he is a bit passive on some things. But it isn't exactly like he is a giant ball of passivity and nothing else. He is a genuinely nice guy, he cares for Dora, loves(d) her, none of the fights they have are initiated by him and he doesn't really do anything wrong. Might be a bit of a blanket statement. But blaming the relationship not working due to Marten, ludicrous. Plus, you guys lay on the passive thing too much, when Dora goes nuts over something and marten states "fuck this, I am leaving" or something to that extent, that is NOT being passive. Passive would just give up and say, yes ma'am.
100% of the fault is Dora's emoness. If she grows up a little, she might be able to have a real relationship, something she (admittedly) has never had.
Long story short:
Dora is whack.
Nice does not equate to passive.
Also, "In all honesty, no woman with any self respect would stay in a relationship with Marten for very long anyway, simply because he is incapable of doing anything on his own. In short: Marten isn't even really an adult, he's an overgrown boy that needs a mother-figure to tell him what to do every minute of every day."
I think you need to go back and read the comic again. Marten is pretty fleshed out, he has mommy issues, but he does most things on his own.
I think you need to read the series of articles starting here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml) and realize that being a "Nice Guy" is pretty much the worst possible thing a guy can be and expect women to treat him with any kind of respect.
Edited to fix the link to the correct page.
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I think I will go with RL experience and not something written on the intarwebs.
Sorry, I won't go out and start smacking my bitch around or treating her like crap. The kind of woman I am involved (or get involved) with have a tendency to have some self respect and don't need to be mistreated to feel valuable. I guess I have unusual standards.
And once again, Nice does not mean passive. You can be nice and still have a back bone. It isn't like treating a person with respect is some form of disease. If there weren't 2k comics to go back through, I would feel like tracking down instances where Marty behaves decidedly un-passive. I have already read issues 1-current 3 times. I think I am good on doing it again for a while.
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I keep seeing that link pop up in various places, and there's a lot in there that I'm not comfortable with - namely that they are talking about a very specific type of Nice Guy, and it falls on the VERY far end of the spectrum. And when they're not talking about that one, they're talking about the "Nice" Guy which is entirely different. It all kind of gets lumped in together and given the title of Nice Guy as though it's the final word on the subject, but I think it's a misnomer.
I agree with MA - nice does not mean passive.
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I think you need to read the series of articles starting here (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml) and realize that being a "Nice Guy" is pretty much the worst possible thing a guy can be and expect women to treat him with any kind of respect.
I think you need to read the first sentence of the series of article you link to before trying to make a statement based upon it.
All too often we hear self-professed "Nice Guys" complaining about why they can't get a date, and whining that women just want to date jerks, etc. etc.
(emphasis mine)
We've seen how Marten behaves. He doesn't fit in the kind of guys described in these articles – that I happen to have already read some times ago.
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While I agree that the posted Nice-Guy-articles describe pretty well how it works not, I don't think it labels nice guys correctly in general, and also not Marten.
I'll just change "his fault, too" to "he was a reason, too" in my head, since he being him obviously doesn't fit to Dora or the other way round.
Dang people here are always faster than me each time I want to say something once every eternity x)
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And once again, Nice does not mean passive.
Absolutely. The trouble is that you can do positive things which are not considered "manly" enough by some people, and so get misinterpreted (or more likely, ignored).
Marten is not passive here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=870), for instance - he is initiating what he is doing, trivial though it is. And he is taking the initiative here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=697), or here (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1262). And here (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1067), for instance, is one of a number of times he simply stood by his view of things rather than giving in to Dora's revisionism. It's not hard to find examples.
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damn, what happened to my post? :?
anyway, a couple people already said the same. :-)
internet fora: where repetition feeds on brevity
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I think just by saying the events in a way that make it clearly her fault, even if she didn't want to admit it right after, shows that she's accepted most of the responsibility of the relationship not working. She just has to figure out what to do next.
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I think you need to read the first sentence of the series of article you link to before trying to make a statement based upon it.
All too often we hear self-professed "Nice Guys" complaining about why they can't get a date, and whining that women just want to date jerks, etc. etc.
(emphasis mine)
Yeah if you go and take only one sentence and don't bother with the context of the series, I can see how you'd miss the point entirely.
We've seen how Marten behaves. He doesn't fit in the kind of guys described in these articles – that I happen to have already read some times ago.
He actually seems to be going through this arc (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml), though (we're at the point where he's about to shove a stick up his own ass).
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@pwhodges, you also forgot when he went out and bought Dora some roses (ok, it bloated Dora's face like a balloon, but hey its the thought that counts).
I've also done that (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1262) a couple of times for my girlfriend. The first couple of times I got a weird look and a "What did you break?" (nothing before anyone asks), now its like weird puppy dog eyes before I get the breath squeezed from my lungs. So yeah, doing nice things for the sake of it, nice, a little painful but still nice.
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He actually does (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml), though.
See, I can't take that seriously whatsoever when the site is called "heartless bitches" and the subsection is called "rants".
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He actually does (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml), though.
See, I can't take that seriously whatsoever when the site is called "heartless bitches" and the subsection is called "rants".
Engaging in "Poisoning the Wells" isn't really going to win the argument, though, is it? Try actually reading the articles beyond the sensationalist headliners. They don't have any beef with genuinely nice people, but with people that only pretend to be nice because their insecurities won't allow them to be assertive (which would be Marten, he really isn't all that different from Dora, other than his issues putting him at the opposite end of the same spectrum).
Bleh, editing cuz he edited!
I would hope so, because while your post was in English, it was a bit hard to follow with the way that the grammar was screwed up.
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He actually does (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml), though.
See, I can't take that seriously whatsoever when the site is called "heartless bitches" and the subsection is called "rants".
Engaging in "Poisoning the Wells" isn't really going to win the argument, though, is it?
Bleh, editing cuz he edited!
I would hope so, because while your post was in English, it was a bit hard to follow with the way that the grammar was screwed up.
Oh snap, grammar nazi has entered the post, respect has gone away. Have fun posting, any coherent discussion leaves when the grammar comes into play. Pointing at grammar is the last resort of a lost argument. The best part is where to call a guy out on poisoning the well and THEN pull the grammar card. Roofles.
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He actually seems to be going through this arc (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml), though (we're at the point where he's about to shove a stick up his own ass).
I'm not seeing it....?
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Hmm, I may be a bit on the bitter side.
Don't worry! You could replace that line with a good many of the posts here, and you'll fall right in step with other forumites.
Admitting the problem is the first step to recovery ^^
Smoke and mirrors might show Marten's issues...
Or you could try looking at the situation from another, less-clouded perspective.
Why? Do I need to modify my perspective for a reason? It is my perspective, I don't change it to fit the situation, I use it to judge my outlook on it.
My perspective is who I am, I don't change it to suit a reason, that way lies conviction-less life. Have the courage to stand by your convictions rather than change it to fit into some mold someone else designed.
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I don't know why the "Nice Guy" construct seems so fascinating to some people. Reading some of those articles, they are fairly uniform in describing the "Nice Guy" as complaining that he doesn't get what he wants out of his relationship with women; however, this clearly does not describe Marten's situation, as he and Dora had a healthy and active sex life, for instance.
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Dora Dora Dora...tsk*
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I don't know why the "Nice Guy" construct seems so fascinating to some people. Reading some of those articles, they are fairly uniform in describing the "Nice Guy" as complaining that he doesn't get what he wants out of his relationship with women; however, this clearly does not describe Marten's situation, as he and Dora had a healthy and active sex life, for instance.
Because Marten regularly complained about Dora's complete lack of any respect for him, which is just as important, but failed to realize that he did nothing to earn that respect.
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Tsk tsk, selective memory FTL.
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Tsk tsk, selective memory FTL.
Oh, by all means, point out something Marten has done to earn anybody's respect other than simply existing as a fellow human being. Faye, the person he arguably has been the most supportive of, doesn't respect him either.
Either the things going on in the characters' lives that we don't get to see mean that Marten is generally worthless in the eyes of what are supposed to be his closest friends, or Jeph hasn't done a very good job of showing us why Marten is even friends with these people to begin with.
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Why bother, you read the comic, if you can't see the things he has done, I am certainly not going to change your mind. We get it, you don't like Marten and you are so gung ho about it that you will ignore any evidence, even when we club you over the head with it. I think I am done responding to you, you make this thread an unpleasant place to be.
Can anyone tell me if it is possible to ignore people on this forum?
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I don't see why people should have to prove themselves to earn respect.
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Man he should have just fucked her in the ear.
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Why? Do I need to modify my perspective for a reason? It is my perspective, I don't change it to fit the situation, I use it to judge my outlook on it.
My perspective is who I am, I don't change it to suit a reason, that way lies conviction-less life. Have the courage to stand by your convictions rather than change it to fit into some mold someone else designed.
Sometimes convictions are incorrect. Quote from a Consequentialism FAQ:
Consider as a metaphor the process of discovering an optical illusion. Our sensory intuitions play the same role in the physical world that our moral intuitions play in the moral world; they are our first and only source of data.
However, sometimes our sensory intuitions are false. For example, an rod that looks bent as it enters the water may in fact be straight. We discover this by noticing that this sense-datum of bendiness conflicts both other immediate sense data, like how the object feels when we touch it, and rules gathered from a long history of interacting with sense-data (like that solid objects don't instantly bend of their own accord).
Point is, you can't always tell when you're wrong, especially when you have limited experience to work with. One way to correct misconceptions is having them pointed out by people with different experiences, essentially increasing the amount of data you have to work with.
And what will Dora being 'punished' accomplish? She's not harming Marten anymore and she's working on fixing the problem.
I have a problem with people who take offence on behalf of Marten. Doing that doesn't help nothin' since someone who borrows offence doesn't know how it actually felt for the person, and thus doesn't know what compensation is adequate.
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Sorry that arc never happened. It would show too much aggressive behavior, since all Marten does is agree with everyone and sit on the floor all day long...there was no ear arc.
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EARFUCK I TELL YOU
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Why? Do I need to modify my perspective for a reason? It is my perspective, I don't change it to fit the situation, I use it to judge my outlook on it.
My perspective is who I am, I don't change it to suit a reason, that way lies conviction-less life. Have the courage to stand by your convictions rather than change it to fit into some mold someone else designed.
Sometimes convictions are incorrect. Quote from a Consequentialism FAQ:
Consider as a metaphor the process of discovering an optical illusion. Our sensory intuitions play the same role in the physical world that our moral intuitions play in the moral world; they are our first and only source of data.
However, sometimes our sensory intuitions are false. For example, an rod that looks bent as it enters the water may in fact be straight. We discover this by noticing that this sense-datum of bendiness conflicts both other immediate sense data, like how the object feels when we touch it, and rules gathered from a long history of interacting with sense-data (like that solid objects don't instantly bend of their own accord).
Point is, you can't always tell when you're wrong, especially when you have limited experience to work with. One way to correct misconceptions is having them pointed out by people with different experiences, essentially increasing the amount of data you have to work with.
And what will Dora being 'punished' accomplish? She's not harming Marten anymore and she's working on fixing the problem.
I have a problem with people who take offence on behalf of Marten. Doing that doesn't help nothin' since someone who borrows offence doesn't know how it actually felt for the person, and thus doesn't know what compensation is adequate.
That is what having the courage of your convictions is all about. The willingness to be wrong. There is merit in being flexible, I will give you. But there is also something to be said for making a decision based on a set of variables. To never make your own decisions and always look to other people to solve issues for you, isn't that what 90% of the people on this thread are complaining about?
I would rather be strong enough to make a decisions based on my perspective and be wrong, than to either needlessly argue a point even when proved wrong or just modify my outlook to suit whatever the current meme theory is...
I can, and will admit when I am wrong. But I won't adjust my thinking to conform.
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Man he should have just fucked her in the ear.
I just saw an old Indian saying that sentence. And burst out laughing. Thank you very much.
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He did nothing to earn respect? Having his own job and place and being financially independent earns respect, for starters. Helping two very sheltered friends come out of their shells and get closer to living lives they both admittedly want to live earns respect as well. Standing up to the vespavenger, standing by Steve, dealing with his rather odd situation with his parents without going insane, accepting and wanting his dad to be happy by giving his blessing to get remarried, all of these earn respect. You want more manly examples? He hit a Kung Fu monk in the face with a frying pan. He also didn't drink himself into a coma when he found out his girlfriend and her father both pleasured themselves to pictures of his mom. That earns a shit ton of respect points.
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I'd love to get more involved with the discussion and do some quoting and comic linking but busted laptop and PS3-browsing the forums is awkward enough. :psyduck: Instead here's just my original thoughts.
1: Dora looks good in that dress.
2: I think the "A lot was him too" was to an extent a face-saving comment in the middle of telling more than she meant to tell. Also I know if I wrecked a good thing due to difficult personal issues, at least pretending it wasn't 100% my fault would stop me feeling even more pathetic. Temporarily at least.
3: It's refreshing seeing Dora speak clearly about her view of the relationship/break-up. This is probably the type of discussion and epiphany she wanted to have with her therapist.
4:Hope Jeph is doing well. His Twitter feed is kind of worrying but it's his business. I appreciate him getting a comic up when he seems to be having a situation.
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I don't see why people should have to prove themselves to earn respect.
You do when you've recently done things to lose that respect, which was the case between Marten and Dora (she started off already not having much respect for him due to watching his interactions with Faye). But as I said, Dora doesn't have much self-respect either (if not for her insecurities, she would still be with Marten).
Marten isn't completely worthless, but you do have to wonder why none of his friends seem to have any real respect for him.
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I think the 'real' respect would be a lack of Faye's punchings, Steve's sarcastic comments, Dora's looking at his porn, Tai's nipple-grabbing, Pintsize's Pintsizing and (some have argued) Hannelore bringing his worry hat.
It's all relative though.
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One thing to keep in mind, that the HBI site doesn't make clear, is that not everything is black and white. (I usually cite http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html when explaining "nice guy" behavior, rather than HBI.)
One can have traits of a "nice guy" who feels that being nice entitles him to various things in a relationship, which is inherently jerky behavior.
The same person can have genuinely nice traits, too. Evidence in the case of Marten: except for when he was very, very drunk, he's there for Faye, despite not being able to date her.
On that spectrum, Marten's in the gray area, not at one end or the other - most of the time, he's genuinely nice, but he has some "nice guy"ish traits that come out at times. In addition, he's now building the self-confidence to stand up for himself, which tends to help with the whole "nice guy" thing.
(Myself, I generally try to be nice - regardless of whether or not I've got a chance with someone - but at the same time, I'm a sarcastic bastard, and I'm not going to suppress that trait about myself to try to pick up chicks. And, also, I'm a firm believer in calling people out on their shit, ESPECIALLY if they're my friend.)
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Tai's nipple-grabbing
Yeah, don't get me started on Tai. QC would lose nothing if she never appeared again as the character Jeph has created (cheap LOL look at that clueless lesbian that cannot interact with straight people! jokes are getting old).
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It doesn't really matter sometimes what you do to earn respect, since some people tend not to have any.
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The way I see Marten is that he's a genuinely nice person. Most of the time, he doesn't have a strong opinion. It's not that he's withholding or manipulative - he really doesn't care much one way or the other. That was part of what attracted Dora to him. He doesn't push people around, he's pretty honest, but yeah, he's kind of a passive person.
That's totally different from the "Nice Guy" situation, in which men pretend to be nice and to be friends with someone only in the hopes of hooking up with them later. Nice Guys like that aren't actually friends with the women in question - Marten actually is. He cares very much about Faye, in particular, but also has shown compassion and kindness to girls that he wasn't interested in romantically (Penelope, Raven, Ellen, Tai, Cosette, etc). He treats his female friends with respect, values what they think, is happy for them when they get into relationships, and while he screws up from time to time, he is overall a good friend (I think of that comic where Faye is like, "you are a true friend, flower-pits"). An actual Nice Guy wouldn't do that - there's no payback for them. To a Nice Guy, the woman in question "owes" him for the time he's invested.
Dora is not a bad person, but I think she's being a little too charitable to herself in this comic. Her beef with Marten was his passiveness, but she became incredibly angry when Marten wasn't passive. Her problems were not about him - and it's unfair to blame him for it. Marten showed repeatedly that he was willing to concede and try to be better about things when Dora expressed concern about her problems. Both he and Dora made mistakes and hurt each other, but the reason that the relationship ended was because of Dora and her response to her feelings, not because of what Marten did or didn't do.
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For comic #1962...
1. Aw... nothing like post-restaurant ice cream. I generally do that too on most dates. I find it a lot more enjoyable than at-restaurant dessert (lets you get up and move around after eating, yet have an excuse to stop and enjoy each other's company too :wink: ).
2. It was a good artwork job on the frontal shots for the last two panels, those angles are always difficult to draw.
3. Forum "debates," quotings, and linkings like these always remind me of a television commerical I wish I had paid more attention to...
- Older business exec #1: We need to be able show that our [product] is better without actually having to do anything.
- Younger business exec #2: That's easy! 85% of all statistics can be made to say whatever you want.
- Older business exec #1: Does that actually work?
- Younger business exec #2: yes! ...60% of the time.
- Older business exec #1: *facepalms*
(Sadly at this point I did not catch which company's commerical this was, as I was rendered blind & helpless by laughter-tears when I heard these lines... :roll: )
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I don't see why people should have to prove themselves to earn respect.
You do when you've recently done things to lose that respect, which was the case between Marten and Dora (she started off already not having much respect for him due to watching his interactions with Faye). But as I said, Dora doesn't have much self-respect either (if not for her insecurities, she would still be with Marten).
Marten isn't completely worthless, but you do have to wonder why none of his friends seem to have any real respect for him.
Because he can be easily pushed over. Because his snapping point does not exist. He has no respect for himself, why should anyone respect him. You know what is funny? That the times Marten stood up to himself from his friends, they saw him as being a dick and what have you, because it's not in his personality to say the things he said. It took being dumped to bring that out of him. A basic Hammer of Dawn.
Our lovable Faye likes to hit people and be snarky and vicious, and that's part of her personality. Hell, that's why Angus likes her. They are both fairly snarky people. Marten however, well, I don't remember the last time I saw Marten be snarky. It's not in his nature. He's easily walked on so when he does prove to not be walked on, he either gets a comment about him being a dick, or if it's his mom apparently, a complete shut down.
You want the most telling thing about Marten's personality?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1835 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1835)
He looks like a beaten child. What people like about Marten is that he's a go with the flow kind of guy, that's what we can assume by seeing how he is with friends. He's someone who you can depend on, who's loyal and there, but on the 'con' side of things... He's weak. Sedated. Only makes a fuss about something when his button is pushed. Hard. He never has a strong opinion about one thing or the other, and with no strong opinions he is easily stomped on. The more I think about it the more I realize that Dora isn't really in as much of the wrong as the forum thinks.
I hate to compare personal life here, but my ex and I's relationship had a few points similar Marten and Dora's.
I was so passive about everything, so nonchalant, she always wondered if I cared much. I would show I cared by always taking her out and stuff, but what she wanted was a strong well... Opinion about something, anything. About showing I cared in more intimate ways. Her baggage was previous relationships, always bringing up different former boyfriends and stuff, I would get mad and so on.
We broke up over issues, and now that we are actually really good friends, we discuss how we both went wrong to make sure we never make the same mistakes again with different people or with each other if that day ever comes. She's helping me realize that you NEED to say what you feel, not just pend it up and hold it for four to six months until it's oven baked and ready.
Back to the main point: Again, why should anyone respect someone who doesn't respect themselves.
If he really, actually wanted that relationship to continue, he would have fought to change her mind.
Instead, Marten just took it like a Mike Tyson punch in the first round.
Instead he acted like a victim and got no sympathy. He drank a lot out of frustration, got punched out by Faye for getting fresh and going on that nice guy complaint that I am really mad used to come out of my mouth at one point in my life, and even now he's eating a buffet of doormatism.
Dora and Marten need to... Well, talk. Hopefully without either of them killing each other and learning what they can about their own stupid, childish, terrible behaviors so they can grow from it.
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2. It was a good artwork job on the frontal shots for the last two panels, those angles are always difficult to draw.
I don't know, man, you saying this made me look again and now I'm wondering how Jim could possibly be comfortable in women's pants like that.
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He has no respect for himself, why should anyone respect him.
Actually, because one's not a jerk. What kind of respect other people have or don't have for person X (including person X) is in no way important for my opinion about X.
(I have the same standard-respect for everyone who's not doing malicious things on purpose and people won't gain anything just because they're incredibly cool.)
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He has no respect for himself, why should anyone respect him.
Actually, because one's not a jerk. What kind of respect other people have or don't have for person X (including person X) is in no way important for my opinion about X.
(I have the same standard-respect for everyone who's not doing malicious things on purpose and people won't gain anything just because they're incredibly cool.)
You are completely allowed to respect them, consciously or unconsciously. You may be the outlier in the equation.
However people (this is just my personal opinion) usually seemed to get walked over more, when they have less respect for themselves. The more they are like, "It's okay if Person X does this, that or other thing to me, I don't care." The more someone says, "Oh, they're letting me get away with this? Then I'll continue, and do more of it."
Usually just seems like human nature to me.
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Because Marten regularly complained about Dora's complete lack of any respect for him, which is just as important, but failed to realize that he did nothing to earn that respect.
Yeah, I mean all he did was accept her and stay with her despite her disrespecting his wishes and behaving in a completely unacceptable way for a grown fucking person to act! Yeah, he didn't do dick to earn her respect.
<moderator>Unacceptable language removed</moderator>
Dora's completely at fault here. She's completely off her rocker insane. She sees her boyfriend hugging her other friend and immediately jumped to the "AHA YOU'RE FUCKING AUGH GO TO HELL" conclusion! On more than one occasion, she has behaved like this. Marten did what any half-brained person would do when saddled with someone certifiably insane - he called her out on treating him like shit, being out of her god damn mind, and got the hell out of the relationship! There's only so much a normal person can take of someone else's continued acts of bullshit before they get fed up. Even the most spineless person in the world can reach their breaking point if they're pushed for long enough, and that's exactly what happened here.
Despite Marten constantly reassuring Dora's retarded ass that he cared about her, she couldn't accept that as fact and was constantly searching for reasons to prove it, hence her absurd outbursts at the slightest thing. She didn't respect Marten's privacy despite being asked, she flies off the handle, and it takes someone getting in her face and screaming at her before the dumb bitch realizes she keeps fucking things up!
Yeah, Marten didn't do shit to earn her respect. He only stayed faithful to her despite her insecurities.
What an asshole that Marten guy is.
Oh wait, I forgot. You aren't allowed to become sick of someone's shit. You aren't allowed to say "Enough" and put your foot down. Poor poor Dora. Poor poor brought-it-all-on-herself-so-fuck-her Dora.
And you know what the worst part of all this is? They'll get back together. They'll get back together and Dora will not have changed. Or she will but she'll have "episodes," I believe is the term, where she'll regress and blow up for totally mundane shit occurring around her. She isn't mentally stable and shouldn't be treated as if she were. Trying to shift blame onto Marten when he didn't do fucking anything but put his foot down and tell her he was sick and tired of her CONSTANT god damn horseshit proves that. And yet he'll still scamper back to her like a little lost puppy.
What?
No.
<moderator>Unacceptable language removed</moderator>
That's not how it works, god dammit. <moderator>personal remarks removed</moderator> Nothing serious can ever continue for long in QC. Tai will always be a stereotype who thinks with her libido first, Hannelore will never be normal and awesome again, Faye will keep fucking everyone BUT Marten because she's a whore, Dora will always be psychotic, and Marten will only grow a pair of balls in the most extreme of circumstances. That's how it works. We'll never see Dora with Tai (because Tai can't be happy) and we'll never see Marten stop being a mopey cunt over getting out of his poisonous relationship. Seeing either of those would require a capability in writing that I just don't think Jeph can pull off. So Marten will end up back with Dora and everyone here will be all "DAWWWWW" over it. That's just how it works in QC.
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You are completely allowed to respect them, consciously or unconsciously. You may be the outlier in the equation.
However people (this is just my personal opinion) usually seemed to get walked over more, when they have less respect for themselves. The more they are like, "It's okay if Person X does this, that or other thing to me, I don't care." The more someone says, "Oh, they're letting me get away with this? Then I'll continue, and do more of it."
Usually just seems like human nature to me.
I do agree absolutely. I just think it usually says more about those who don't show respect than about those who don't get said respect. I also think it would be better/easier for Marten if he wasn't what's generally seen as a loser/slacker/etc. who doesn't deserve respect, but I don't think one should blame Marten for other peoples (in my opinion) weird definitions of that. But indeed that's just me.
There's some exhilarating, fine swearing in the post above me.
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ChibiSoma, you could have kept it civil instead of going for name-calling.
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Because Marten regularly complained about Dora's complete lack of any respect for him, which is just as important, but failed to realize that he did nothing to earn that respect.
Yeah, I mean all he did was accept her and stay with her despite her disrespecting his wishes and behaving in a completely unacceptable way for a grown fucking person to act! Yeah, he didn't do dick to earn her respect.
<moderator>Unacceptable language removed</moderator>
Dora's completely at fault here. She's completely off her rocker insane. She sees her boyfriend hugging her other friend and immediately jumped to the "AHA YOU'RE FUCKING AUGH GO TO HELL" conclusion! On more than one occasion, she has behaved like this. Marten did what any half-brained person would do when saddled with someone certifiably insane - he called her out on treating him like shit, being out of her god damn mind, and got the hell out of the relationship! There's only so much a normal person can take of someone else's continued acts of bullshit before they get fed up. Even the most spineless person in the world can reach their breaking point if they're pushed for long enough, and that's exactly what happened here.
Despite Marten constantly reassuring Dora's retarded ass that he cared about her, she couldn't accept that as fact and was constantly searching for reasons to prove it, hence her absurd outbursts at the slightest thing. She didn't respect Marten's privacy despite being asked, she flies off the handle, and it takes someone getting in her face and screaming at her before the dumb bitch realizes she keeps fucking things up!
Yeah, Marten didn't do shit to earn her respect. He only stayed faithful to her despite her insecurities.
What an asshole that Marten guy is.
Oh wait, I forgot. You aren't allowed to become sick of someone's shit. You aren't allowed to say "Enough" and put your foot down. Poor poor Dora. Poor poor brought-it-all-on-herself-so-fuck-her Dora.
And you know what the worst part of all this is? They'll get back together. They'll get back together and Dora will not have changed. Or she will but she'll have "episodes," I believe is the term, where she'll regress and blow up for totally mundane shit occurring around her. She isn't mentally stable and shouldn't be treated as if she were. Trying to shift blame onto Marten when he didn't do fucking anything but put his foot down and tell her he was sick and tired of her CONSTANT god damn horseshit proves that. And yet he'll still scamper back to her like a little lost puppy.
What?
No.
<moderator>Unacceptable language removed</moderator>
That's not how it works, god dammit. <moderator>personal remarks removed</moderator> Nothing serious can ever continue for long in QC. Tai will always be a stereotype who thinks with her libido first, Hannelore will never be normal and awesome again, Faye will keep fucking everyone BUT Marten because she's a whore, Dora will always be psychotic, and Marten will only grow a pair of balls in the most extreme of circumstances. That's how it works. We'll never see Dora with Tai (because Tai can't be happy) and we'll never see Marten stop being a mopey cunt over getting out of his poisonous relationship. Seeing either of those would require a capability in writing that I just don't think Jeph can pull off. So Marten will end up back with Dora and everyone here will be all "DAWWWWW" over it. That's just how it works in QC.
Just quoting this so when someone comes along to point out that Dora dumped Marten and that pretty much everyone in-comic was shitting on Marten with regard to the breakup itself, his own mother included, you can't edit this ridiculous post.
You may also want to go back and re-read my posts in this thread and stop posting as if I'm saying something I'm not.
edit: I forget who originally pointed it out on here, but I don't think Jeph naming Marten after a relative of the weasel was an accident.
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Because Marten regularly complained about Dora's complete lack of any respect for him, which is just as important, but failed to realize that he did nothing to earn that respect.
Yeah, I mean all he did was accept her and stay with her despite her disrespecting his wishes and behaving in a completely unacceptable way for a grown fucking person to act! Yeah, he didn't do dick to earn her respect.
<moderator>Unacceptable language removed</moderator>
Dora's completely at fault here. She's completely off her rocker insane. She sees her boyfriend hugging her other friend and immediately jumped to the "AHA YOU'RE FUCKING AUGH GO TO HELL" conclusion! On more than one occasion, she has behaved like this. Marten did what any half-brained person would do when saddled with someone certifiably insane - he called her out on treating him like shit, being out of her god damn mind, and got the hell out of the relationship! There's only so much a normal person can take of someone else's continued acts of bullshit before they get fed up. Even the most spineless person in the world can reach their breaking point if they're pushed for long enough, and that's exactly what happened here.
Despite Marten constantly reassuring Dora's retarded ass that he cared about her, she couldn't accept that as fact and was constantly searching for reasons to prove it, hence her absurd outbursts at the slightest thing. She didn't respect Marten's privacy despite being asked, she flies off the handle, and it takes someone getting in her face and screaming at her before the dumb bitch realizes she keeps fucking things up!
Yeah, Marten didn't do shit to earn her respect. He only stayed faithful to her despite her insecurities.
What an asshole that Marten guy is.
Oh wait, I forgot. You aren't allowed to become sick of someone's shit. You aren't allowed to say "Enough" and put your foot down. Poor poor Dora. Poor poor brought-it-all-on-herself-so-fuck-her Dora.
And you know what the worst part of all this is? They'll get back together. They'll get back together and Dora will not have changed. Or she will but she'll have "episodes," I believe is the term, where she'll regress and blow up for totally mundane shit occurring around her. She isn't mentally stable and shouldn't be treated as if she were. Trying to shift blame onto Marten when he didn't do fucking anything but put his foot down and tell her he was sick and tired of her CONSTANT god damn horseshit proves that. And yet he'll still scamper back to her like a little lost puppy.
What?
No.
<moderator>Unacceptable language removed</moderator>
That's not how it works, god dammit. <moderator>personal remarks removed</moderator> Nothing serious can ever continue for long in QC. Tai will always be a stereotype who thinks with her libido first, Hannelore will never be normal and awesome again, Faye will keep fucking everyone BUT Marten because she's a whore, Dora will always be psychotic, and Marten will only grow a pair of balls in the most extreme of circumstances. That's how it works. We'll never see Dora with Tai (because Tai can't be happy) and we'll never see Marten stop being a mopey cunt over getting out of his poisonous relationship. Seeing either of those would require a capability in writing that I just don't think Jeph can pull off. So Marten will end up back with Dora and everyone here will be all "DAWWWWW" over it. That's just how it works in QC.
Huh.
So what close friend of yours got their heart stomped to pieces?
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I forget who originally pointed it out on here, but I don't think Jeph naming Marten after a relative of the weasel was an accident
I didn't even know! But what does it mean? Those animals don't have a certain reputation here except being annoying to the pet rabbits in your garden and to cars...
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Myself, I generally try to be nice - regardless of whether or not I've got a chance with someone - but at the same time, I'm a sarcastic bastard, and I'm not going to suppress that trait about myself to try to pick up chicks. And, also, I'm a firm believer in calling people out on their shit, ESPECIALLY if they're my friend.
You are not alone!
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This thread would give an aspirin a headache.
And at the moment, this seems entirely appropriate;
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/PaulC1984/MountainLionattack-1.jpg)
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EARFUCK I TELL YOU
Aural sex, then cookies!
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You are completely allowed to respect them, consciously or unconsciously. You may be the outlier in the equation.
However people (this is just my personal opinion) usually seemed to get walked over more, when they have less respect for themselves. The more they are like, "It's okay if Person X does this, that or other thing to me, I don't care." The more someone says, "Oh, they're letting me get away with this? Then I'll continue, and do more of it."
Usually just seems like human nature to me.
Maybe it's a like in school. If you get bullied, there are parents that say: Oh if you don't react, they will get bored sooner or later. I took that road for some years (not that what my parents said, but I just didn't like to punch the shit out of somebody).
In retrospect, I should have parked my right knee on the chest of that biggest guy of that group some years earlier. He was the easiest to catch as I was and am more of a manatee myself. I got some shit of the girls in my class for being mean or hitting that guy because he was full of tears after that(funny thing, none of the teacher said anything about it ^^).
But the next three years where I was in class with those people I wasn't bullied nor was my little brother (who was another target of choice for them, as well as all smaller kids).
Thinking about that. Grownups can just act as dump junior high kids.
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Woah.
I'm going to take a break from this thread until it regains some sanity, or at least is a little less out there. I'm thinking that trying to bring it back to a measure of reasonableness is doomed to failure ATM.
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I forget who originally pointed it out on here, but I don't think Jeph naming Marten after a relative of the weasel was an accident
I didn't even know! But what does it mean? Those animals don't have a certain reputation here except being annoying to the pet rabbits in your garden and to cars...
I'd point you to some old Bugs Bunny cartoons, but I'm not sure if that meaning still holds (basically, being a weasel was universally a bad thing). See also: Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
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There's something that came to my mind: Dora has been pretty passive in her relationship with Marten – past initiating it, I mean. We haven't seen her doing something for Marten, while we've seen him doing things for her – including, but not limited to, putting up (all right, with more or less tact) with her fits of craziness. The only time when she seemed to do some effort is when she finally decided to move in with Marten and Faye instead of insisting for Marten to move in with her – and even then, one could argue that she just changed her mind instead of making an effort (being able to change one's mind instead of being stubborn out of pride or shit like that is still a good point).
I'm not saying Marten is Mr Perfect and has no shortcommings, but Dora is a lot to handle and she kinda... indulged. She indulged in her issues too, even when she's got warnings (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1744) – but cowing away from therapy is quite common, actually, I did it too – heck, I'm still doing. Maybe Faye should have put her foot down (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1802) earlier.
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Perhaps we should make the solution to forum debates combat by champion, American Gladiator style. Each faction picks a champion, we get elevated platforms, padded beating sticks, and have each champ duke it. The winner is the last combatant still standing, creating the greater concensus!
...until Jeff hypothetically yanks the rug out from underneath the champion the very next day, but the point is, debates get resolved! With spectacle!
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Perhaps we should make the solution to forum debates combat by champion, American Gladiator style. Each faction picks a champion, we get elevated platforms, padded beating sticks, and have each champ duke it. The winner is the last combatant still standing, creating the greater concensus!
...until Jeff hypothetically yanks the rug out from underneath the champion the very next day, but the point is, debates get resolved! With spectacle!
You mean Jeph?
What do you think the over/under odds are on Jeph having Hannelore snap and murder everyone at the end in a cold, calculated Hannibal Lecter-esque fit of badassery (she's become far too quiet and creepy compared to how she was originally being developed when she first showed up) when he gets tired of doing QC in general and decides to move on to something new?
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Perhaps we should make the solution to forum debates combat by champion, American Gladiator style. Each faction picks a champion, we get elevated platforms, padded beating sticks, and have each champ duke it. The winner is the last combatant still standing, creating the greater concensus!
...until Jeff hypothetically yanks the rug out from underneath the champion the very next day, but the point is, debates get resolved! With spectacle!
I request water surrounding the platforms.
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Perhaps we should make the solution to forum debates combat by champion, American Gladiator style. Each faction picks a champion, we get elevated platforms, padded beating sticks, and have each champ duke it. The winner is the last combatant still standing, creating the greater concensus!
...until Jeff hypothetically yanks the rug out from underneath the champion the very next day, but the point is, debates get resolved! With spectacle!
I request water surrounding the platforms.
I request pits filled with spikes.... or rabid hamsters....
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I have looked through this thread since my last post, and now I have a burning desire to start belting put "Respect".
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<MODERATOR>
There's some exhilarating, fine swearing in the post above me.
Which I have removed; not because of the words, you understand, but because of the unacceptable lack of civility.
This rather fatuous discussion about whether Marten is a "Nice Guy" and whether it matters has been round several times before - and I don't expect anything useful will be added to it this time around. Unfortunately, when only a few people are holding an unpopular view, some people find it harder to avoid making their replies personal. But I do expect people to respect the rules of this place, and I'm not above locking even the WCD thread if that's what it takes to calm people down.
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I'm a newbie to these forums but not to the comic. And I'm not going to get into the whole fault thing between Dora and Marten. After all, maybe all we've seen is Dora's understanding of her side of the equation, we haven't really seen this deep a analysis come from Marten yet. However, Marten is somewhat too passive. The whole reason he's in that town is because he followed a girl he was in love with, and this same willingness to go with the flow (follow) seems to act as a marker to his own passive behavior.
So what are we looking for here? Jeph has his own plans for Marten and what that future may entail. We can only guess that there may be a plan in the works to strengthen Marten's character somewhere down the road. It may not be something as crazy as the whole other life that Steve lived (the life of a spy/mercenary) but it may be something. It's hard to even remember if Marten has any real dreams. I fear that the passiveness of the character may be working too well and over time he'll become forgettable.
Change and becoming a better person seems to be the one constant theme in this story. I for one am shocked and proud that Hanner's is even present at such a large gathering of people considering her previous level of anxieties and phobias. We can't deny that it was probably Marten's friendship with these other people that helped them take the first steps into changing their lives for the better (remember how Faye was at the beginning, Steve, Hanner's?).
The point I'm making is that it is probably Marten's turn to become better. To somehow find that balance to being the friend he's always been but at the same time become a stronger individual. Considering Marten's age, is working at a college library part-time really what he wants to do for the rest of his life? I for one would have no problem with Marten leaving for awhile and growing as long as the character came back with a great story. It might be interesting to see how the other character's operate without his presence in their lives. Of course whether Jeph sees things that way and how he might go about it is anyone's guess. :|
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Change and becoming a better person seems to be the one constant theme in this story.
Could we debate this? Because this is one thing where it could definitely be argued to be the opposite (at least as far as Hannelore goes, possibly a couple others as well, like Dora pre-dating-Marten).
I mean, Hannelore started off as an otherwise "normal" QC character with mild OCD before she evolved into the unrealistically regressed naive person we know today (that is slowly moving back toward being a "normal" person). She smoked, drank, went to bars and didn't have any sort of freakouts like she does since Jeph reinvented her as the butt of OCD jokes.
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I mean, Hannelore started off as an otherwise "normal" QC character with mild OCD before she evolved into the unrealistically regressed naive person we know today (that is slowly moving back toward being a "normal" person). She smoked, drank, went to bars and didn't have any sort of freakouts like she does since Jeph reinvented her as the butt of OCD jokes.
You do realise that right before Marten and Hanners met, she was stalking him for two weeks. Her excuse for not introducing herself when Marten and Faye moved into the building? She didn't want to seem weird. How is stalking someone normal?
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There's a lot of vitriol here, which is rather unpleasant, but I feel the need to state my opinion. Please remember that everything written below is my opinion, based off of my personal experiences.
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I really don't like Dora. I never have. She always came off to me as greedy, manipulative, sniping and self-centered. I should probably inform you that I'm a 'Faye' type girl, to the point that a number of my friends have made note of the similarities (similar issues regarding men and our fathers, similar body types, similar types of humor).
Too many times, I have developed feelings for a man, but felt myself incapable of giving him the relationship he deserved, because of an incompatibility in our lifestyles. Like Faye did with Marten, I would sit down with them and explain the situation, what I felt was preventing us from having a relationship, and an apology that because of my issues, I was unable to pursue my feelings for them. I take ownership of the situation, which is something Faye grew into with her conversation with Marten. She understands she's messed up, and accepts that she needs to fix herself before she can give the man she truly wants a fair shake in a relationship. You'll notice once that talk was over, she went and got help, started seeing a therapist.
And I have had 'friends' (though I feel that 'frienemies' is a more appropriate term) like Dora. They're strong, attractive personalities. Women with issues become attached to them, in a friendship sense, because when we're around them we find ourselves feeling braver. We think 'If I could be like that, I could deal with X' or 'I wish I had that level of self-confidence/self-reliance'. And I have gone through the situation that occurred between Dora, Marten, and Faye. When I was 19, I met a boy who I adored, more than anything. But I was just starting my therapy, and my psychologist asked me if I really thought I could have a healthy relationship - I knew I couldn't. So we had our talk. A week later, pictures appeared on Myspace (to give you an idea how long ago this was >.<) of the two of them kissing and drinking together. It hurt. Immensely. I wasn't upset with him, I wanted him to be happy. But I felt betrayed by my friend, because she knew, how I felt. She helped me work out how to say what I needed to say during the talk. She held me the night before the pictures were taken while I cried over the fact that I couldn't be with him. It was horrifying for me, I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me. So that attributes to my dislike of Dora. When I read that story arc I felt my heart freeze up in my chest, and bad memories came rushing back.
While that heavily contributes, there is another reason I dislike Dora - she's not honest with herself, or anyone around her. Unlike Faye, up until -very recently- Dora has laid her problems at the feet of those around her. Marten's 'passivity' does not equate to being a doormat. The comic linked above, where Marten's mother demands he apologize to her, and his friends, for his behavior, came across to me as a response of emotional exhaustion. He just got out of a bad breakup in a long term relationship, and his own mother was sneaking off from dinner with him to call his ex and check on her. Arguing with people, yelling at people, being upset - those are all emotionally draining. I think, at the end of the night, the point when this event occurred, he just wanted to go home and sleep. He was done dealing with his mother, and done thinking about Dora. I think it's unfair to use that as an example of a weak self-will. Anyway, back to Dora - She doesn't take responsibility for her problems. She blames her overreactions and paranoia on the behavior of others, be it Marten, Faye, or her 'ex boyfriend' who has been referenced numerous times, and she expects her friends and loved ones to change their behavior to accommodate her.
Whereas Faye saw that she had a problem, accepted it, owned it, and didn't go bitch mode when Dora swooped in and got together with Marten. She understood that Marten's love life didn't end because she wasn't available, and though she was a little hurt, she didn't hold it against either of them.
The short version:
I don't like Dora. Dora is the kind of woman that gives women with issues a bad name.
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You do realise that right before Marten and Hanners met, she was stalking him for two weeks. Her excuse for not introducing herself when Marten and Faye moved into the building? She didn't want to seem weird. How is stalking someone normal?
Considering how things started between Marten and Faye at the very beginning of this strip, it really isn't that much worse.
Plus, the operative words there were "QC character" immediately after "normal". It's all relative, obviously, but the sudden shift into super-crazy-town Hanners took once the stalking admission happened is what I'm talking about.
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Change and becoming a better person seems to be the one constant theme in this story.
Could we debate this? Because this is one thing where it could definitely be argued to be the opposite (at least as far as Hannelore goes, possibly a couple others as well, like Dora pre-dating-Marten).
I mean, Hannelore started off as an otherwise "normal" QC character with mild OCD before she evolved into the unrealistically regressed naive person we know today (that is slowly moving back toward being a "normal" person). She smoked, drank, went to bars and didn't have any sort of freakouts like she does since Jeph reinvented her as the butt of OCD jokes.
I don't think I'll debate. I accept your view as yours and I'll live with mine. Stalking, drinking, smoking Hanners (crutches needed for her to operate) is far removed from the current Hanners who seems to be okay at the party and not drinking alcohol. Sure, when she first came to the strip she was rough around the edges and somewhat vague, but defining and polishing a character takes time. They rarely come to the party fully formed and complete. Rather, I feel Marten has become more vague with no clear lines as time has evolved.
-edit-
As for Marten and Faye, I'll have to agree with his mother's assessment of a potential relationship now that Marten as a passive individual has come to light. Faye would definitely need someone who can fight back against her snarky-ness and Marten, while able to joke with her, would be unable to do it in a relationship. That kind of barrage almost everyday would wear him down. I think Jeph was pointing that out to us. Due to the way I personally see the character of Marten now (these are not real people) I can't see anyone in the current cast who would be good for him. I'm not saying another character should be added, I'm saying Marten is due for some growth.
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That's not how it works, god dammit. And a less emo writer would realize that. Unfortunately, Jeoh's in Sad Sad Shinji mode despite being a successful webcomic artist who can make his living from home, so that's what's going to happen.
As a forum newb, I really do not want to derail this thread any further, but I feel obligated to comment on this statement.
Jeph is taking psych medications, and has alluded to the reasons being genuine mental illness (as in chemical imbalances), I don't know if he's ever specified what kind, but I'd guess it's some form of depression and/or anxiety disorder.
Without going into my own personal history, these people are not being "emo" or in "sad mode", it is a crippling medical condition that no matter what your circumstances in life are, will. fuck. you. up. Precisely what you wrote is the reason why so many of us have to hide their condition behind masquerade or facade. Please consider this.
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That's not how it works, god dammit. And a less emo writer would realize that. Unfortunately, Jeoh's in Sad Sad Shinji mode despite being a successful webcomic artist who can make his living from home, so that's what's going to happen.
As a forum newb, I really do not want to derail this thread any further, but I feel obligated to comment on this statement.
Jeph is taking psych medications, and has alluded to the reasons being genuine mental illness (as in chemical imbalances), I don't know if he's ever specified what kind, but I'd guess it's some form of depression and/or anxiety disorder.
Without going into my own personal history, these people are not being "emo" or in "sad mode", it is a crippling medical condition that no matter what your circumstances in life are, will. fuck. you. up. Precisely what you wrote is the reason why so many of us have to hide their condition behind masquerade or facade. Please consider this.
As long as Jeph doesn't pull a Doobl! (http://doobl.comicgenesis.com/d/20061025.html) on us, it's all good.
EDIT: For those that don't know, that webcomic author originally wrote a terrible "Christian" webcomic before going insane with his depression, having his main comic character rape and murder all the other characters, then commit suicide before committing suicide in real life.
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Precisely what you wrote is the reason why so many of us have to hide their condition behind masquerade or facade. Please consider this.
Yes. Exactly this.
If I had a dollar for every time someone told me to just 'get over it', I'd be able to pay off my car right now.
Writing and drawing are forms of self-expression, and that's exactly what Jeph is expressing - himself. He has issues, ergo, his characters have issues. On a larger (and somewhat more charitable scale) I can see each of the main characters as a personification of parts of his psyche. But I'm not going to go into it here as it's a major derail, and I think I've done enough of that today.
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Considering how things started between Marten and Faye at the very beginning of this strip, it really isn't that much worse.
Plus, the operative words there were "QC character" immediately after "normal". It's all relative, obviously, but the sudden shift into super-crazy-town Hanners took once the stalking admission happened is what I'm talking about.
Except when Faye and Marten first met, it was a case of "Hey, my name is Faye, I'm new in town, I don't have many friends, can I hang out with you guys?" not "Oh look, new people, I'll follow them and root around their garbage."
As for the Hanners switch, I'm sure many of us do know someone who does suffer from mental illness, and we might have seen what happens when someone switches to a new medication, it can be a little disturbing to see someone's personality completely change overnight. She even admitted that the meds she was on at the time were far more powerful than she was used to. And we can't forget the other incident where she switched meds and walked down to C.O.D. in boyshorts.
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What's on tap for this week?
The Eagles make a reappearance Monday! - 6 (7.7%)
Dora meets Samantha (Jim's daughter) - 8 (10.3%)
Dora runs into Jim's EX. - 0 (0%)
Back to the Par-TAY! with Mar & Hanners - 27 (34.6%)
Sven's new GF - Jim's EX! - 7 (9%)
Faye and Marten's night - 12 (15.4%)
The Espressosaur Returns! - 7 (9%)
Waffles! - 4 (5.1%)
Drunken Postings! - 7 (9%)
Total Voters: 78
Don't know if I should post anything new, since this thread seems to be heading towards "LOCK" status.
DAMMIT, guys and gals, I HATE when people cause a thread I STARTED to get LOCKED.
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*reads comic*
Uh oh.
*reads thread*
Oh god.
*huddles in corner*
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*reads comic*
Uh oh.
*reads thread*
Oh god.
*huddles in corner*
Its ok Grave, you hide and protect yourself, its too late for most of us.
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I mean, bloody hell, are people seriously trying to get another WCDT thread closed? Over a potential epiphany comic? Really? The breakup week got to what? 50 pages? That was a major issue, this, however, is like..... I can't even think of a decent analogue for this.
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I shall decide before I go to bed; meanwhile, I have already deleted a post.
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After watching Millionare Matchmaker for 3 seasons, Marten's personality is consistent with someone from Southern California.
I think Marten's a gentlemen, but I honestly think if you pushed him into a corner enough, he will fight back. It's just he doesn't seen the need to bring conflict into his life. Unless Jeff did a comic where Marten was attacked and let himself get beat up, I would not mistake Marten's passiveness for weakness.
I'm a lot like that, I don't make a big deal over things, go with the wind, but if you try to hurt someone I'm friends with, I'm going Wyatt Earp on you.
Dora to me is used to being treated like trash. If I had to guess, I'd say her boyfriends were players who treated her badly and took advantage of her because in their minds that's what makes a man a man.
Dora couldn't handle a gentleman because it was so much of a shock in the end. Does that make her a bad person? Not in the least, we are each the sum of our experiences, but it does mean she needs to not go into the "it wasn't me it was him" and go into the self examination and realize that sometimes, a gentleman is really a gentleman.
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WOW. I've never been in any forum where the debates got so heated that they shut it down.
Give me a sec to get some popcorn and a drink. I wanna watch and see what happens next.
This is why I always remind myself that it's all just a story. :roll:
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I am wondering though, is Dora's "duh" moment that she shouldn't even be out with him, or that she was the one who messed up the previous relationship?
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I assumed it was just "oh, whoops, I am on a date right now, maybe I shouldn't tell my date that I shouldn't be on a date". Not so much the thought that she really shouldn't be there. She seems to be enjoying herself, after all.
(Ed.: Or maybe she thinks that she just fucked up with Jim now that he knows about that issue. I wouldn't think so if I were Jim, though.)
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I assumed it was just "oh, whoops, I am on a date right now, maybe I shouldn't tell my date that I shouldn't be on a date".
Thats how I saw it, not so much "I've just had an epiphany!" but "Well crap, mouth moved faster than my mind."
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Maybe this will finally help her get back on track.
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The comic linked above, where Marten's mother demands he apologize to her, and his friends, for his behavior, came across to me as a response of emotional exhaustion. He just got out of a bad breakup in a long term relationship, and his own mother was sneaking off from dinner with him to call his ex and check on her. Arguing with people, yelling at people, being upset - those are all emotionally draining. I think, at the end of the night, the point when this event occurred, he just wanted to go home and sleep. He was done dealing with his mother, and done thinking about Dora. I think it's unfair to use that as an example of a weak self-will.
Suddenly I feel I jumped to conclusions. I didn't mean to use that as an example of weak self-will, so much hmm...
An example of how Marten responds to his parents, showing us how he has become the way he is?
I don't even know if that sounds plausible anymore. :psyduck:
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Has a WCDT thread ever been locked on the Tuesday of the week? That's some impressive flamewarrin' there.
I will say, though, that Marten is not at fault. This was the culmination of a long pattern of insecurities and double standards by Dora. Marten wasn't perfect - his attachment to Faye really did get to be a bit much at times - and I'd say his conduct with Faye before The Talk was definitely a bit Nice-Guy-ish - but I think anyone who weren't either unconscionably domineering (like all her exes...) or a complete doormat would have eventually come to a similar situation with her. If it hadn't been what it was, it would have been something else.
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EARFUCK I TELL YOU
Aural sex, then cookies!
I bequeath to thee one internet, or if we're out of those I bequeath instead a tapdancing coconut.
As to the story itself, I thought that was a rather interesting flash of self insight on Doras part. I would arguably put more of the burden on her than him, but I also think that the sudden outburst of insight, combined with realizing what she said out loud was pretty good. I also like Jims expression in the last panel.
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but I think anyone who weren't either unconscionably domineering (like all her exes...)
I'll stop you there. The only pre-comic ex of Marten's we've ever come across is Vicki, and she wasn't domineering, instead she seemed more passive aggressive, and who resorted to ignoring Marten up until the point she told him it was over when she left California. Other than that, we don't know anything about any of his other exes, so we can't really determine what their personalities were.
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The comic linked above, where Marten's mother demands he apologize to her, and his friends, for his behavior, came across to me as a response of emotional exhaustion. He just got out of a bad breakup in a long term relationship, and his own mother was sneaking off from dinner with him to call his ex and check on her. Arguing with people, yelling at people, being upset - those are all emotionally draining. I think, at the end of the night, the point when this event occurred, he just wanted to go home and sleep. He was done dealing with his mother, and done thinking about Dora. I think it's unfair to use that as an example of a weak self-will.
Suddenly I feel I jumped to conclusions. I didn't mean to use that as an example of weak self-will, so much hmm...
An example of how Marten responds to his parents, showing us how he has become the way he is?
I don't even know if that sounds plausible anymore. :psyduck:
I think it's accurate to an extent. What got me in the linked comic actually had more to do with wondering if part of Martens passivity might also just be a kind of defense mechanism. Marten has been described as a Manatee on Coedine, and that does sorta fit in some ways but I think it's also worth noting that he does have pretty fair reserves of internal resilience. The problem I had with it was that his mom knew he was at a low point and yet seemed to want to rub salt in the wounds when she showed up, and was in fact much nicer to him when she showed up for a general visit and things were going relatively WELL for him. Martens situation with his dad seems to have been better but I figure there might have been a bit of bitterness when his dad came out and his parents divorced. From what it sounds like the divorce wasn't very amicable though the two eventually reconciled to being friends. I don't know how much it says about Marten per se, but it does seem that he's quite used to being ignored or put upon by those around him. I also want to point out that it was the always snarky Faye and the sometimes imbalanced Hannelore that really did try to help Marten feel better and make things better for him.
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but I think anyone who weren't either unconscionably domineering (like all her exes...)
I'll stop you there. The only pre-comic ex of Marten's we've ever come across is Vicki, and she wasn't domineering, instead she seemed more passive aggressive, and who resorted to ignoring Marten up until the point she told him it was over when she left California. Other than that, we don't know anything about any of his other exes, so we can't really determine what their personalities were.
Her exes was the post, IE all of Doras various exes. She mentioned them being jerks and Sven backed it up. While it is possible that Dora was unreliable I can't see Sven lying to Marten about it, even if he would feel at least slightly compelled to take his sisters side.
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but I think anyone who weren't either unconscionably domineering (like all her exes...)
I'll stop you there. The only pre-comic ex of Marten's we've ever come across is Vicki, and she wasn't domineering, instead she seemed more passive aggressive, and who resorted to ignoring Marten up until the point she told him it was over when she left California. Other than that, we don't know anything about any of his other exes, so we can't really determine what their personalities were.
Her exes was the post, IE all of Doras various exes. She mentioned them being jerks and Sven backed it up. While it is possible that Dora was unreliable I can't see Sven lying to Marten about it, even if he would feel at least slightly compelled to take his sisters side.
You know, I read that wrong, my bad. :lol:
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I am wondering though, is Dora's "duh" moment that she shouldn't even be out with him, or that she was the one who messed up the previous relationship?
Nah, let's be fair to Dora: she's been pretty aware of it from the moment the breakup happened. Before, even.
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I am wondering though, is Dora's "duh" moment that she shouldn't even be out with him, or that she was the one who messed up the previous relationship?
Nah, let's be fair to Dora: she's been pretty aware of it from the moment the breakup happened. Before, even.
No, I think it's the "Only now do I realize I fucked up royally" phase.....
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It was Dora realising what she had just caused in the forums. :laugh:
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.....so I wonder how that party is going. anyone else wonder that?
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If it hadn't been what it was, it would have been something else.
Plato, take a bow.
You know damn well what I meant.
.....so I wonder how that party is going. anyone else wonder that?
We need to catch up to where we were at the party. Dora will realize that what's best for her is a one-night stand, change into more casual clothes, pop in and hit on the punk rocker.
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As a "nice guy"...
You don't have to be spineless to be a nice guy. That said, the line between being nice and spineless, and having a backbone and being a dick are very, very thin, and often subject to interpretation.
I read the responses about Marten, and I like the irony of the double standard; if Marten ever behaved towards Steve like Steve towards him, Marten would be called out for being a dick, etc. Yet no one calls Steve out for it.
To me, the line has always been about whether you're hurting other people for the sake of your own self-esteem. To me, it seems really clear why Dora broke up with Marten; she was afraid she was second best, and nothing Marten could do could ever convince her otherwise. Dora, like I would say the majority of human beings, is trying to deal with her stress by having someone else fawn over her / get attention. It doesn't make her a "bad human being", but it means she's refusing to deal with the root of her problems, and instead, just doing what makes her happy as a way to deal with the inevitable sadness the end of her relationship has caused her. Everyone wants to be sought after. Due to the current societal norms, it is easy for Dora to be "sought" after when she wants to be. She sees an opportunity to be "happy", takes it with Jim, and has now realized "oh oh, I'm not dealing with my issues, am I?" in that conversation.
The question is, does Dora realize that she has to figure out her own head before she can truly date, or does she take the easy way out?
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I've been at work all day & haven't had the chance to add my two cents, so here we go. It's about to get so real.
I relate to Dora. I mean, I really relate to Dora. All my life I've been manipulated, abused, and lied to by the men I should have been able to trust: my father, my brother, my friends, my boyfriends, acquaintances, etc. This all began at a painfully early age and for a long time I wasn't able to control my life (or so I felt). I internalized this abuse, my self esteem plummeted, and sure enough, I dated the alpha males Dora has mentioned in the past which only intensified my problems (and I'm sure hers as well). Did I take out my frustrations on those who didn't deserve it? Certainly. I was hurt, afraid, confused, and had no idea what was going on with myself. Haven't we all felt this way and done/said things we shouldn't have? I see many parallels between Dora & Marten's relationship and my current one. Luckily I'm at a point where I can examine my behavior and sometimes pick out the instances in which I am acting unreasonably (so no, don't think I'm going all Dora on my boyfriend), but then again I've been in therapy for over a year while Dora has yet to do any of the work. It seems like most people are quick to demonize Dora and attack her for her lack of self-awareness, but can any of us honestly say we are fully self-aware? That comes with experience, age, maturity, whatever you want to call it. I don't think Dora has had to face her denial yet because no one has challenged that: not her, not her friends, and certainly not her family (I mean, Sven is so steeped in his own denial...). We see the change coming about (way to go Faye for laying down the law) but she's at the beginning of her path to self-love & acceptance.
I'm interested to see where Jeph takes Marten and Dora. Not necessarily as a couple, but as individuals. I think Dora's "oh shit!" moment is in reference to the realization that she's started down the same path again, going on a date and slowly sliding into a relationship while she needs to focus on herself. I hope she does take the time she needs, but then again, QC is just a comic. Just. A comic.
I would like to add that in no way am I trying to justify Dora's actions: just pointing out that perhaps a little sympathy/understanding is in order.
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Annietiger, thank you for demonstrating:
It's possible to understand without necessarily condoning; and
It's possible to find fault with someone 's actions without demonizing them.
Will it work? Probably not. But thanks for taking the shot.
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I suppose the forums wouldn't be nearly as interesting if we all remained fair in our judgements and actually tried to see things from other perspectives =)
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I suppose the forums wouldn't be nearly as interesting if we all remained fair in our judgements and actually tried to see things from other perspectives =)
Behold! A sensible post!
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Did I take out my frustrations on those who didn't deserve it? Certainly. I was hurt, afraid, confused, and had no idea what was going on with myself. Haven't we all felt this way and done/said things we shouldn't have?
Personally, I have always been really, really careful with that sort of thing. But I have had a fairly easy life. Despite my being unable to walk the mile, I still judge others for "wronging" people who don't deserve it. Though the judgment is always tempered with the willingness to forgive upon indication of repentance or at least awareness of what one has done.
It seems like most people are quick to demonize Dora and attack her for her lack of self-awareness, but can any of us honestly say we are fully self-aware?
A problem I have with people that act like the fictional character Dora is that it seems very rare for them to try to seek a higher degree self-awareness. I am willing to deride her for that unfortunate quirk, while acknowledging that no one is even close to perfect (whatever perfect is). If our skins are so thin that we cannot be called out for even somewhat realistic interpretations of our behavior, the challenges brought to fore in the last decade were wasted on us. Which would be a shame.
I would like to add that in no way am I trying to justify Dora's actions: just pointing out that perhaps a little sympathy/understanding is in order.
I thank you for that. I'm curious why people find it so hard to simultaneously judge and empathize. I judge myself when I do something stupid, I will judge others when they do, and if they ask they will know that whatever mistake they have made is both A.) not absolute, B.) important in looking to the future, and C.) not representative of their worth as a person.
My judgment doesn't make them a worse person (or character), it's just a prescription for future personal growth, which can be accepted or rejected as is one's (or one's creator's) wont. You can't win the lottery without even one ticket.
Unless you're James Tiberius Kirk, of course.
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but can any of us honestly say we are fully self-aware?
Funnily, I guess not even if we were fully self-aware.
The question is, does Dora realize that she has to figure out her own head before she can truly date,
Do you worry about Dora's or her date's mental health if she continues dating before she sorted her brain? Both?
I was thinking about the question if it really wouldn't work to fix her issues and still date someone at the same time, when she AND her date are aware of what she's doing sometimes. Couldn't it be of help to actually have something to work at and to apply her new (future) problem-solving-strategies to?
Well I guess it wouldn't do any good to her if it didn't work out, and also we (and she) don't really know what kind of guy Jim is.
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As long as Jeph doesn't pull a Doobl! (http://doobl.comicgenesis.com/d/20061025.html) on us, it's all good.
EDIT: For those that don't know, that webcomic author originally wrote a terrible "Christian" webcomic before going insane with his depression, having his main comic character rape and murder all the other characters, then commit suicide before committing suicide in real life.
I thought that was the creator of Chugworth Academy?
...........
Oh wait, my mistake. Apparently he draws snuff porn now. Nevermind.
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WOW. I've never been in any forum where the debates got so heated that they shut it down.
You don't get out much, do you? :laugh:
Great art and a nice penny-dropping moment for Dora. As for the rest, I don't think I'll comment, beyond saying that sneering at Jeph's emotional state is a pretty low blow.
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Well, it took a while - and a couple of therapy sessions - but the Lightbulb finally goes off for Dora.
Too bad Jim had to be the one to flip the switch.
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Well, it took a while - and a couple of therapy sessions - but the Lightbulb finally goes off for Dora.
Too bad Jim had to be the one to flip the switch.
I imagine its something like a scene from a submarine movie in Jim's head right now, red alert, sirens blaring, submariners running around in an ordered panic and the captain is just sitting in the command chair with a :? face on him.
Its like that awkward moment in a conversation when someone looks at their watch, looking to get out when the other person has accidently insulted them or has had a TMI moment.
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I'm interested to see where Jeph takes Marten and Dora. Not necessarily as a couple, but as individuals. I think Dora's "oh shit!" moment is in reference to the realization that she's started down the same path again, going on a date and slowly sliding into a relationship while she needs to focus on herself.
That's pretty much what I've been thinking. I was actually surprised by today's instalment, as I was expecting her to actually start dating Jim and then sabotage that relationship before really realizing that she wasn't ready—but this is much more efficient (assuming she follows through with the realization).
I like Dora. I think she and Marten are good together—but, at this point in their character development, they aren't good for each other, and that's because they're both screwed up. While I’ll admit that the obvious problems in the relationship have been Dora’s, there’s one crystallizing moment that revealed, for me, just how screwed up Marten is, too: in strip 1797, Marten jumps from zero to “oh yeah, because if I even BLINK at another girl it’s the end of the fuckin’ world, but you completely BREACHING MY TRUST isn’t ‘that big of a deal.’” Now, even in the vague area of ‘trust issues’ that’s one hell of a friggin’ leap of logic, and it really struck me as odd… and that’s when I realized that that’s what Marten has gone back to every time he and Dora fought.
Whenever they fight, he brings up that one incident with the girl in the library and he redirects the fight to that issue. He uses it as his default weapon in every single fight, which means that there’s something about that incident that is just festering inside of him—and that, right there, is the death of any given relationship. If there is something you can’t get over but aren’t strong enough to deal with, your relationship is already dead; it’s just waiting for the toe-tag.
Marten isn’t just passive, he’s passive-aggressive. He doesn’t know how to deal with things so he lets them fester until they either go away or explode—either way, he doesn’t have to take responsibility for it. Even with Dora, he was fine having the same old fight again and again until she called it quits. Marten’s fear of actually taking responsibility for himself and his life is his defining characteristic—and here’s the thing that’s led to most of the more bitter entries in this discussion: that’s what most of us are like, too. That’s why we want him to be right. That’s why we want him to come out on top without having to change and take control of his life. But it isn’t healthy—for him or for us.
The quest at the heart of this comic is Marten growing up and learning to deal with the crap that life throws at him. He’s a path-of-least-resistance guy who’s not doing anything of value with his life, which is why he’s stagnating. He’s trapped in that mid-20’s “I’ve got nothing but potential, and I don’t want to lose this opportunity by taking advantage of that one” mindset. Hell, I don’t want to extend an already overly-long post by getting into it here, but that’s probably the biggest challenge for anyone of Jeph’s (and my) generation.
Dora and Marten are both good people who happen to have problems. Her problems are more overt, but his are serious, too. Most of all, though, so far they’ve managed not to bicker back and forth with a lot of painful recriminations, so surely we can manage that, too, don’t you think?
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There is no way in hell Doobl! isn't a joke/hoax. Even if that's a real youth minister who committed suicide, it's just a name on some backdated comics.
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FrozenPeas, I think that's actually a cogent and measured analysis ofthe situation with which Jeph has presented us, and I wanted to say that before your post got buried in flamewarring.
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Well, it took a while - and a couple of therapy sessions - but the Lightbulb finally goes off for Dora.
Too bad Jim had to be the one to flip the switch.
I imagine its something like a scene from a submarine movie in Jim's head right now, red alert, sirens blaring, submariners running around in an ordered panic and the captain is just sitting in the command chair with a :? face on him.
Its like that awkward moment in a conversation when someone looks at their watch, looking to get out when the other person has accidently insulted them or has had a TMI moment.
I guess you've never served with Marko Ramius
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"I would have liked to have seen Montana."
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I guess you've never served with Marko Ramius
Better him than Homer Simpson and Mr. Moe!
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There is no way in hell Doobl! isn't a joke/hoax. Even if that's a real youth minister who committed suicide, it's just a name on some backdated comics.
Looking at it six years after the fact, I can see why you'd think that, but look at his news posts (http://doobl.comicgenesis.com/oldnews.html) (specifically, the ones on September 6th and on, there's also the obituary his sister posted on the site after the suicide (http://i.imgur.com/sIfdN.jpg)).
Well, it took a while - and a couple of therapy sessions - but the Lightbulb finally goes off for Dora.
Too bad Jim had to be the one to flip the switch.
I imagine its something like a scene from a submarine movie in Jim's head right now, red alert, sirens blaring, submariners running around in an ordered panic and the captain is just sitting in the command chair with a :? face on him.
Its like that awkward moment in a conversation when someone looks at their watch, looking to get out when the other person has accidently insulted them or has had a TMI moment.
I'd actually be surprised if Jim didn't take this completely in stride/chalk it up to Dora being that much younger than him. He doesn't seem to be the sharpest crayon in the box so far in terms of what to say/do on a date, himself, after all.
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Ah. I got it backwards; he never existed (http://lederhosen.dreamwidth.org/433291.html?thread=1840523).
Yeah, you'll notice that the early strips read like a parody of a Christian minister by the kind of person who'd find the second half funny; the blog reads like a Slender Man sighting.
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Honestly, I'm sad for Dora, and the current update did make me go "Aw, Dora... :(" but at the same time, she brought this on herself. Marten finally reached his breaking point, and the poor guy had worked so hard. Yes, he is passive, but he's also sweet and did a lot for her, and a lot to show her he cared and she was just not some Faye replacement. She, perhaps subconsciously, sabotaged her relationship with Marten to the point it failed. Marten didn't deserve this and my sympathy goes more for him than for her.
On a random, slightly backtracked note, the guy in the pink shirt with the white wings at the college party looks like he'd be a fun character to have around! Hanners should take him home and introduce him to Marten. :lol:
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FrozenPeas, I think that's actually a cogent and measured analysis ofthe situation with which Jeph has presented us, and I wanted to say that before your post got buried in flamewarring.
I think anyone who flames FrozenPeas for that post is just outright wrong. S/he wrote it brilliantly.
I think it's ironic - often, the posters who just signed up to comment on one particular issue churn out the most brilliant posts, and not all of us who've been here a while understand the comic as well as the freshies.
P.S. FrozenPeas, what is the answer to that 20's problem of "If I pick this, I'll miss that opportunity"?
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I've just noticed that Jim in the first panel seems to be mirroring a lot of what Veronica said about her and Henry's relationship after the divorce (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=434). Whether or not thats a common occurance in divorces, I don't know, just thought I'd bring it up though.
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Perhaps. I've talked to my mom about her divorce and she said it was easier to remain civil for me & my siblings' sake, and that it was useless to continue fighting about the same problems because after all, they divorced so it was over and done.
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EARFUCK I TELL YOU
Aural sex, then cookies!
I bequeath to thee one internet, or if we're out of those I bequeath instead a tapdancing coconut.
You now have the choice between one internet AND the tapdancing coconut where the lovely BlackJoker is standing... or you can trade it all for... what's in this box!
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/mystery_box_3543_6880.jpg)
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I'm almost ashamed to come out of lurker status for something so trivial, but I have to share some excitement with the interwebs! So, I've been a fan of QC for years now and check it out every day... and have been a Massachusetts transplant for about a year, working and playing in the Northampton area. Tonight's comic is the first time I've recognized inspiration from the town itself! Dora and Jim are totally eating Herrell's ice cream and sitting at the base of the steps of Osaka right across the street!!! I'm pretty pumped considering I did the same thing for my birthday a few weeks ago! Woo!
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Welcome, new person!
What other local landmarks have you spotted?
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(moderator)
There are a lot of good and thoughtful posts being made here, often by relatively new people. Everyone, please build on that. Reply to the good ones, and leave the others to the moderators.
(/moderator)
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There's something that came to my mind: Dora has been pretty passive in her relationship with Marten – past initiating it, I mean. We haven't seen her doing something for Marten, while we've seen him doing things for her – including, but not limited to, putting up (all right, with more or less tact) with her fits of craziness. The only time when she seemed to do some effort is when she finally decided to move in with Marten and Faye instead of insisting for Marten to move in with her – and even then, one could argue that she just changed her mind instead of making an effort (being able to change one's mind instead of being stubborn out of pride or shit like that is still a good point).
Dora did spontaneously buy tickets to a concert after hearing Marten talk about the band. [SCRA, which doesn't exist, but should]
I actually think Dora was holding back the majority of her triggers during the relationship. most (maybe as low as half) of the fights she and Marten had were kind of left field (library girl/haircut). Dora's main anxieties were either centered on her relationship/competition with Sven and the Marten/Faye thing. Dora was probably constantly telling herself that her feelings of paranoia about Marten/Faye were groundless [as we, the semi-omniscient audience knew they were] but not everyone has that magic ability to just make insecurities/feeling disappear.
Dora seems unable to trust in a relationship. Which makes sense in the context of asshole previous boyfriends/manwhore brother getting with her friends (behind her back? *pure speculation, no proof*) It was probably very hard for her to deal with Marten going off to band practice, living with Faye, and whatever else he did in his spare time. This might also be why she immediately went and looked at his porn. Marten had something he didn't want her to see, this triggered her, and she went to look at his porn. (and possibly look for other things on his computer he didn't want her to see. *again, pure speculation*)
These hang ups don't excuse the way Dora treated Marten in the relationship/after the relationship. Explanations are not excuses [often excuses are not excuses] But some credit should be given to Dora for really trying to hold back her anxieties.
[Edit- Dora may have been holding back her anxieties, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't still have a ways to go until she will be in a position to have a healthy trusting relationship with someone.]
my, that post meanders a bit... oh well, the chaos of thoughts.
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Isn't Dora a few years older than Marten? It's been a while since I read through the whole comic, but I think she is. Not sure what relevance it has here (I'm trying not to get involved!) but it's something to think about.
I'm looking forward to seeing a bit more of Marten once this "arc" is over. Which, to be honest, I'm looking forward to. The comic's dragged a bit for me lately, particularly with the Dora-heavy elements.
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Hmm, Frozenpeas, while I disagree with some of your argument I actually think that you had a good point with Marten bringing up that incident with Cossette. I wonder if some of the reason for it might have either been that for Marten that one was the biggest example of Doras trust issues rearing their head, or if he saw it as the big symbol of their problems (see also the Faye thing. To be fair it's hard to argue that you can't hug a friend in underwear without questions being raised). Part of it might come from some of what happened in other strips where Dora would either playfully flirt with Tai or her sudden daydream fantasy about Hannelore leading to Hannelore begging Marten to make her stop. I am not sure if Marten is passive aggressive exactly but I also see your point, I actually wonder if some of it is more that Marten has a gear of confrontation.
Faye pointed out that he fears conflict during a comic a ways back involving distracting an angry ex of Svens. And I almost wonder if some of Martens problem may have been that he didn't want conflict with Dora so he didn't try to address any of the problems either fearing another argument or just thinking that it was wiser to let sleeping dogs lie. This might be part of the issue too, Doras outbursts were pretty intense but relatively infrequent and Marten might have been afraid of sparking one especially when things seemed to be going well. Instead he kept sitting on things that frustrated him and refused to say them because he didn't want a fight and each time Dora had a harsh reaction he would get more frustrated but also afraid to say anything. I think it's also possible that it might have been less about him bringing up the thing with Cossete as a 'trump' card so much as it was one of the things festering longest and when she violated his privacy after him asking her several times not to he lost it and the longest buried thing surged to the surface first after an insincere apology. Marten was mad enough to actually say what he thought and it led to Dora calling him a vindictive prick and storming off. Given what happened after his mom showed up I seriously wonder more if what we're seeing isn't so much Marten 'growing' as it is him adding another numb layer to himself simply because he figures if he can push the problems down further then maybe things won't go to hell.
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I'm almost ashamed to come out of lurker status for something so trivial, but I have to share some excitement with the interwebs! So, I've been a fan of QC for years now and check it out every day... and have been a Massachusetts transplant for about a year, working and playing in the Northampton area. Tonight's comic is the first time I've recognized inspiration from the town itself! Dora and Jim are totally eating Herrell's ice cream and sitting at the base of the steps of Osaka right across the street!!! I'm pretty pumped considering I did the same thing for my birthday a few weeks ago! Woo!
That's one of the reasons I love OC. I'm a Umass Alumni and did a year at Mt. Holyoke.
There's a comic where I think Jeff references Antonio's Pizza by the Slice but under a different name.
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Dora and Marten are both good people who happen to have problems. Her problems are more overt, but his are serious, too. Most of all, though, so far they’ve managed not to bicker back and forth with a lot of painful recriminations, so surely we can manage that, too, don’t you think?
I didn't read any of the previous stuff because I anticipated it was all pointless flaming and overly long analyses..
well, you about sum shit up! :wink:
Then again, i can't lay blame on Marten, it´s, as you pointed out, what comes natural to most human beings because were for the most part lazy f***s.
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A really well thought-out and civil argument
FrozenPeas's post is indeed brilliant, not least because it actually made me adjust my views a little bit even though I disagree with a lot of what is being said.
Firstly, I'll say that I think you're right about Marten being passive-agressive and waiting for opportunities to come to him. The problem I think is that, as has been said in the WCDT for the breakup arc and several times since then, Marten's had a weird up-bringing and a relationship with Faye that, to begin with, wasn't exactly healthy. And as it has turned out, the best way to survive everything that has been thrown at him has been to be passive-agressive. Or maybe it's just the only way he knows.
Secondly, I think that Marten had every right to bring that up, given that Dora not only turned it into a test (and Marten probably didn't think much of it at the time), but since then she was somewhat hypocritically flirting with Tai. I know that I'm only mentioning things that other people have mentioned before, but I'd like to think that that's because they're legitimate points to make. And to be fair, the time Cosette asked him out wasn't the only time he did more than blink at another girl (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1741) (Yes, that again). I imagine that that particular issue might have been weighing a lot more on his mind than it normally would as a result (that only happened like two days before the breakup, right?)
But I will admit that I am perhaps a lot more inclined to side with Marten than I am with any of the other characters. And he does have flaws which I tend to overlook or ignore because of that. I don't think there's any sort of quest involved or lesson to be learned vis-a-vis being more assertive/decisive, but I do see why it would be a positive step forward.
Thanks for that. :-)
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Those who have been concerned about Jeph's well-being should be pleased to know that he has tweeted that he is about to start drawing today's comic; so, no need to panic.
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I would like to add another reason they broke up is like so many relationships. A lack of communication. If Dora realized that Marten had passive tendencies and if Marten realized that Dora had insecurity issues, why didn't they both say something to each other like adults are supposed to? Because we live in a society where we don't share our feelings?
Admittedly I have a very similar personality to Marten. I had a girlfriend a year ago and we broke up in a very similar fashion to the to the way Dora and Marten broke up. We had a fun year together but every now and then we would have these stupid fights that never really got the heart of what we felt about each other. If we had been both sensibly adults and said what we felt about each other then we would have at least been able to get along together better.
Plus Marten as far as I can see it, didn't have the most healthiest of upbringings. While Dora's issues are fairly obvious Marten aren't until you look back on all those strips.
So apparently me and Blackjack are the only two people on this board who love G Gundam. 8-)
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But Dora's objection wasn't that he was flirting with Cosette (because he wasn't) - it's that he wasn't open with her about the incident.
Well, I've gone back and read that comic, and to me it seems like Marten just didn't think that getting asked out by a girl was such a big deal. I mean, he refused pretty quickly, and explained that he was seeing someone at the moment. It was all pretty diplomatically dealt with and took less than 15 seconds out of his day. Maybe he didn't even remember it properly by the time he came to CoD later that day.
I mean, you might be right, but I don't think that Marten was deliberately trying to hide it from her. I reckon it's easy to say things like this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1325) in hindsight, because when you're panicking you say a lot of stuff that vaguely forms excuses. Maybe that's just me.
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But what is "openness"? He thought it not especially worth mentioning, whereas she viewed that as hiding it.
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Thanks for the info, pwhodges. I don't have twitter so I was getting a bit worried. :-)
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He's trying not to laugh.
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But what is "openness"? He thought it not especially worth mentioning, whereas she viewed that as hiding it.
Probably more the body language in his reaction when she first started to confront him about it, the "oh shit!" flinch and cringe thing, like he had something to feel guilty about.
If it isn't a big deal (it was and he knew that it would be by this point in his relationship with Dora), when Dora said "So, anything weird happen today?" he would have immediately said exactly what he was going to say in the "Wait, let me start over!" panel.
It's kind of hard to really make character judgments since the whole situation was played by Jeph as an "LOL, look at these awkward people having jealousy issues!" joke, but yeah, in real life unless you're literally turning other people down on a daily basis getting asked out is worthy of a "Funny you should ask, someone asked me out at work today" story.
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
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Everyone say it with me now...
D'AAAWWWWWW
...now let's get to the f***ing party!
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Jim is awesome. That is all.
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
you too? So Dora gets the fayelike feelings? Maybe Martens mom is the one to blame next :D
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Good man, Jim. Good man.
But what is "openness"? He thought it not especially worth mentioning, whereas she viewed that as hiding it.
It's not good to be sealed shut, but openness is not by default a good thing. I think honesty is more crucial to relationships of any kind, romantic or otherwise. Honesty is not about telling everybody everything. It isn't necessarily even about always telling the truth. It's about not attempting to deceive anybody, and I don't think Marten for a moment had deception in mind.
I think it's probable that he did deliberately think 'better not tell Dora about this one!' in the interests of keeping the peace. It wasn't about deceiving her, it was just, as with the issue with the porn, that some things are best kept private. I once casually mentioned to my ex that another girl had said I was good-looking, and it spiralled into a big argument where we both overreacted. With that kind of thing in mind, Marten knew it would do no harm if he didn't tell her, and he didn't want to risk it becoming a big deal. Unfortunately for him, Dora found out by other means and it became an even bigger deal, but that's not his fault.
There are no clear-cut answers to issues like this, and that's why it's interesting to discuss them.
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With that, Jim gained a lot of respect in my eyes.
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I feel like I'm watching a completely different Dora to the one who used to flirt shamelessly with Marten.
(well, ok, sometimes she was a little bit shameful, but it's a figure of speech :P )
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Although it could be under the wrong circumstances. Marten didn't initially know about Dora's insecurities after all.
Aanyway, let's hear it for Ultra-Charitable-Jim (as people have said, he's behaving a lot like Marten did in 509) and for Dora having the good sense to act (or not as the case may be) in accordance with her current emotional state.
In summary, I'd say this date was a bad idea that turned into an actually-pretty-good idea thanks to Dora's realization.
Now let's get back to the party. :D
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
Wow. I'd forgotten all of this. Go to the link and read forward a bit and you'll see what I mean. Hanner's could be a bit of a hard a$$ back in the day. I kinda miss that.
Dora had her "big talk" with Jeff, which makes sense since anyone else is too close to the situation and friends with Marten. And while Marten did have his drunken moment he lost out on the wisdom of Jim, the Redneck Writer. I think "Mopy" Marten may need a testosterone intervention at this point with Steve, Jim and maybe Wil, all of whom are far enough removed to see things Marten can't. Or maybe just Hannelore, since she was his first psychoanalyst. :-)
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
Wow. I'd forgotten all of this. Go to the link and read forward a bit and you'll see what I mean. Hanner's could be a bit of a hard a$$ back in the day. I kinda miss that.
Dora had her "big talk" with Jeff, which makes sense since anyone else is too close to the situation and friends with Marten. And while Marten did have his drunken moment he lost out on the wisdom of Jim, the Redneck Writer. I think "Mopy" Marten may need a testosterone intervention at this point with Steve, Jim and maybe Wil, all of whom are far enough removed to see things Marten can't. Or maybe just Hannelore, since she was his first psychoanalyst. :-)
Jim and Jimbo aren't the same person? Jeff isn't any character's name that I've noticed?
(unless that's the joke you're going for)
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I am in favour of officially and permanently changing Jim's name to Jeff.
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I'm simply in favour of saying, "Mr. Jacques, well done. Intelligent, thoughtful and well-drawn with a hint of decent humour at the beginning. This is why I read your comic."
Second?
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I'm simply in favour of saying, "Mr. Jacques, well done. Intelligent, thoughtful and well-drawn with a hint of decent humour at the beginning. This is why I read your comic."
Second?
Sure. Also, I posit that ladies' bosoms are rad. Do you agree?
D
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Before it felt like Jim was an older version of Marten... and now I'm convinced it's him just older and wiser. <.< I also disliked him as he was a threat to what I still see as hope for Marten and Dora... but all's forgiven!
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Before anyone goes off on Dora again: The hug isn't unusual for her. Take a look at how she responded after her first "date" with Marten back in 228 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=228).
She's still far from being able to "date" again, but she at least realizes this now.
A bit too bad, considering Jim would be a good recurring character to have in the strip.
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Jim and Dora not dating now means he cannot be a recurring character?
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
Boy, now that you mention it...
Jim and Dora not dating now means he cannot be a recurring character?
True... but a pairing would have elevated him to Angus-level status (IOW "dating a primary cast member").
I'm betting he'll still be around whenever Marten is at TSB or some such thing.
By the bye: anyone think this might put a damper on the business relationship?
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By the bye: anyone think this might put a damper on the business relationship?
Baking Soda instead of Baking Powder.........
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Great comic. They worked it out, and part ways as friends. :-D
I'm a bit baffled that they both seem ready to openly talk about the idea of a later relationship though, but maybe I'm just immature..
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By the bye: anyone think this might put a damper on the business relationship?
Baking Soda instead of Baking Powder.........
No, no - Jim wouldn't sabotage his own baking like that.
I really doubt that establishing themselves as friends instead of potentially more (it was only a first date, after al) will harm the business agreement.
Might even help a bit.
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Alarmingly similar to 509... But I don't think Jim's reaction was particularly Marten-ish, actually. I mean, he'd just gone on a date with someone he didn't know well and couldn't have been emotionally invested in. She confides in him about her issues, a situation in which a person usually tries to be sensitive to prevent it from getting more awkward. Then she says it's not gonna work, not in a bitchy way, not while mistreating him. I mean, I can't think of him reacting any other way that wouldn't seem childish, tantrum-y and like he was obsessed with her.
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By the bye: anyone think this might put a damper on the business relationship?
Maybe if Jim were still a teenager/20-something himself, but on his part I'd be surprised if it did (if it does at all, it will be due to Dora freaking out, not Jim). Plus it's not like the way Jim is reacting is all that surprising.
It was a first date, the only people that would react horribly to how Dora was talking at Jim's age on a first date would be someone that is unbelievably immature. Most people have figured out by that point that first dates don't actually matter that much in the scheme of things and don't invest themselves that much in them.
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Well, at least one of them is a responsible adult. *Harrumphs*
On the topic of the Marten/Cosette thing, I think it entirely likely that he would have mentioned it later on, as part of dinner chat or somesuch. Notice that she ambushed him about it immediately after he entered. What was he supposed to do, run into CoD yelling "Dora, guess what! A girl actually asked me out, isn't that crazy!?" But instead she asks obviously loaded questions and he does the logical but dumb for human interaction thing of shutting down until he knows what the questions are loaded with. And she asked that way despite already knowing that his being asked out was an abject failure, so she already had nothing to worry about. So in terms of openness, she failed by asking about the topic that way, and what he did was only a reaction to her deception.
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Well, at least one of them is a responsible adult. *Harrumphs*
On the topic of the Marten/Cosette thing, I think it entirely likely that he would have mentioned it later on, as part of dinner chat or somesuch. Notice that she ambushed him about it immediately after he entered. What was he supposed to do, run into CoD yelling "Dora, guess what! A girl actually asked me out, isn't that crazy!?" But instead she asks obviously loaded questions and he does the logical but dumb for human interaction thing of shutting down until he knows what the questions are loaded with. And she asked that way despite already knowing that his being asked out was an abject failure, so she already had nothing to worry about. So in terms of openness, she failed by asking about the topic that way, and what he did was only a reaction to her deception.
I don't know, it makes sense to me that someone with a history of backstabbing boyfriends would freak out over their current boyfriend lying to them (about any subject). Not saying it's right, but it does make sense.
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Before I just accepted him as a ok character. But now I really like Jim... :-)
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AhhhhHH! Doobl!
A little late, but for anyone interested, Cliff Burton and Tom Araya are the bassists for Metallica and Slayer, respectively. The author of the Dallas Times obituary posted on Doobl! (http://doobl.comicgenesis.com/) is Burton Araya. Interpret that how you will :-D
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Everyone say it with me now...
D'AAAWWWWWW
...now let's get to the f***ing party!
Truly, this is once again clearly a D'AAAWWWWW-moment (today's comic got a diehard cynic like me to smile quite broadly). Nicely handled situation, Jim.
I'm simply in favour of saying, "Mr. Jacques, well done. Intelligent, thoughtful and well-drawn with a hint of decent humour at the beginning. This is why I read your comic."
Second?
Totally.
And now, something completely different (the parrrtyyyy!).
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Finally you've made a good decision, Dora. I'm really glad it worked out this way; Dora needs a friend much more than a lover right now.
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Dora needs a friend much more than a lover right now.
Somehow, worded like this, it reminds me of Dale Cooper's speech to Audrey Horne.
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Finally you've made a good decision, Dora.
Eh? She didn't make a good decision, he made a good decision. She just went along with it.
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Dora needs a friend much more than a lover right now.
I would have said she could have done with a swift kick up the ass, but yours works too.
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I would have said she could have done with a swift kick up the ass, but yours works too.
For a second there I thought you said "dick" and not "kick"... :psyduck:
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The comic linked above, where Marten's mother demands he apologize to her, and his friends, for his behavior, came across to me as a response of emotional exhaustion. He just got out of a bad breakup in a long term relationship, and his own mother was sneaking off from dinner with him to call his ex and check on her. Arguing with people, yelling at people, being upset - those are all emotionally draining. I think, at the end of the night, the point when this event occurred, he just wanted to go home and sleep. He was done dealing with his mother, and done thinking about Dora. I think it's unfair to use that as an example of a weak self-will.
Suddenly I feel I jumped to conclusions. I didn't mean to use that as an example of weak self-will, so much hmm...
An example of how Marten responds to his parents, showing us how he has become the way he is?
I don't even know if that sounds plausible anymore. :psyduck:
I think it's accurate to an extent. What got me in the linked comic actually had more to do with wondering if part of Martens passivity might also just be a kind of defense mechanism. Marten has been described as a Manatee on Coedine, and that does sorta fit in some ways but I think it's also worth noting that he does have pretty fair reserves of internal resilience. The problem I had with it was that his mom knew he was at a low point and yet seemed to want to rub salt in the wounds when she showed up, and was in fact much nicer to him when she showed up for a general visit and things were going relatively WELL for him. Martens situation with his dad seems to have been better but I figure there might have been a bit of bitterness when his dad came out and his parents divorced. From what it sounds like the divorce wasn't very amicable though the two eventually reconciled to being friends. I don't know how much it says about Marten per se, but it does seem that he's quite used to being ignored or put upon by those around him. I also want to point out that it was the always snarky Faye and the sometimes imbalanced Hannelore that really did try to help Marten feel better and make things better for him.
This post got me thinking a little more about Marten's relationships with his parents....if you think about it, both of them seem to have made really big, fairly out of the ordinary decisions (or at least ones that have the ability to impact a very impressionable child/teenager). His mother was a porn star and his parents divorced because his dad came out. Both pretty intense things to deal with- that Marten had no choice but to accept if he was going to have a good relationship with either. Maybe his "sit-back-and-do-nothing" attitude stems from that? Although, I'm not sure if he ever alluded to his actual reactions/responses to the divorce. Anyone know for sure? This could just be me over-analyzing, but it's just too damn fun to give up. :-P
oh. and i spent the last hour and a half reading every page on google about doobl. Thanks, Tiogyr. I'm quasi-convinced it was a hoax, but I'm aching for some closure!!
(and simultaneously embarrassed that I became that obsessed with it for that long)
also- yay for Dora and Jim being responsible adults!! It's refreshing :-D
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Marten has hidden behind humor in describing his reactions to the divorce (conversation with Tai, I'm too lazy to look up the strip) but has used the phrase "bitter recriminations".
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Finally you've made a good decision, Dora. I'm really glad it worked out this way; Dora needs a friend much more than a lover right now.
The night isn't over; they might hug for longer than normal, get excited, and then head into the apartment. Maybe just Jim will get excited and force himself on her. We just don't know what will happen! I think we should wait till the night ends before we start throwing compliments.
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Today's comic strongly reminded me of 1769 with Sven and Hanners
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1769 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1769)
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I hope that's not a "Paging Dr. Freud!" thought, you're having. :mrgreen:
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I'm simply in favour of saying, "Mr. Jacques, well done. Intelligent, thoughtful and well-drawn with a hint of decent humour at the beginning. This is why I read your comic."
Second?
yeah, exactly.
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Maybe just Jim will get excited and force himself on her. We just don't know what will happen!
As serious as the comic can be at times, I really doubt it'll ever board the rape train (express service to Cerebus Syndromia (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CerebusSyndrome)).
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Maybe just Jim will get excited and force himself on her. We just don't know what will happen!
As serious as the comic can be at times, I really doubt it'll ever board the rape train (express service to Cerebus Syndromia (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CerebusSyndrome)).
After a popular gaming webcomic (Eh, it's ok), CAD, had a plotline involving a miscarriage, I never assume what artists will or won't do. Tiogyr could back me up on this, perhaps.
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Everyone say it with me now...
D'AAAWWWWWW
...now let's get to the f***ing party!
Truly, this is once again clearly a D'AAAWWWWW-moment (today's comic got a diehard cynic like me to smile quite broadly). Nicely handled situation, Jim.
I'm simply in favour of saying, "Mr. Jacques, well done. Intelligent, thoughtful and well-drawn with a hint of decent humour at the beginning. This is why I read your comic."
Second?
Totally.
And now, something completely different (the parrrtyyyy!).
Couldn't have said it better. Definitely looking forward to getting back to the party.
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I'm simply in favour of saying, "Mr. Jacques, well done. Intelligent, thoughtful and well-drawn with a hint of decent humour at the beginning. This is why I read your comic."
Second?
Sure. Also, I posit that ladies' bosoms are rad. Do you agree?
D
All in favour?
The addendum to the motion before the committee will be decided at the next meeting so that it may be considered in further detail and after exhaustive studies in camera.
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I agree that the amendment is a delicate question and that further study is required.
I volunteer to lead a fact finding delegation and to report its findings to the committee of the whole.
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I think we can all agree on this without a fact-finding mission.
However, confirmation of the facts is always a good thing...
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After a popular gaming webcomic (Eh, it's ok), CAD, had a plotline involving a miscarriage, I never assume what artists will or won't do. Tiogyr could back me up on this, perhaps.
As depressed as Jeph may be before today, I hope he never reads this comment (because being put on the same level as CAD ought to be pretty damn insulting).
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After a popular gaming webcomic (Eh, it's ok), CAD, had a plotline involving a miscarriage, I never assume what artists will or won't do. Tiogyr could back me up on this, perhaps.
As depressed as Jeph may be before today, I hope he never reads this comment (because being put on the same level as CAD ought to be pretty damn insulting).
CAD is popular much like Jersey Shore is popular. I never said it was good. I just mean that an artist whose livelihood depends on a comics success will sometimes throw a curveball in their comic. Another example, Jim Davis with Garfield.
http://teaching.zachwhalen.net/comics/content/when-funnies-arent-so-funny-anymore-or-week-garfield-died
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The irony there being that they were the funniest Garfield comics outside the ones on that meme site that removes the character of Garfield from the comics altogether.
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I agree that the amendment is a delicate question and that further study is required.
I volunteer to lead a fact finding delegation and to report its findings to the committee of the whole.
I trust there will be slide-shows?
Finally you've made a good decision, Dora. I'm really glad it worked out this way; Dora needs a friend much more than a lover right now.
Oh great, now I'm going to have Texas in my head all day. But hey, good for Dora.
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I think it's great how Jeph managed to turn Jim into a really likeable character (well, at least to me) in the span of three to four strips. I must confess I was skeptical at first, but he turned out to be a good guy.
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But Dora's objection wasn't that he was flirting with Cosette (because he wasn't) - it's that he wasn't open with her about the incident.
Well, I've gone back and read that comic, and to me it seems like Marten just didn't think that getting asked out by a girl was such a big deal. I mean, he refused pretty quickly, and explained that he was seeing someone at the moment. It was all pretty diplomatically dealt with and took less than 15 seconds out of his day. Maybe he didn't even remember it properly by the time he came to CoD later that day.
I mean, you might be right, but I don't think that Marten was deliberately trying to hide it from her. I reckon it's easy to say things like this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1325) in hindsight, because when you're panicking you say a lot of stuff that vaguely forms excuses. Maybe that's just me.
To clarify - my point here wasn't that Dora was right to object; it was that she wasn't objecting to him flirting, so it wasn't hypocritical that she was also flirting. (Wonder what she'd have said if Marten had said "That isn't out of the ordinary! Girls in the library ask me out all the time! Just like guys ask you out all the time here!" ?)
Man, I'd like to live that kind of life ^^
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I'm sure I'm not the first saying this, but I'm saying this anyway: She hasn't had this exact same conversation with Marten WHY?
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I'm sure I'm not the first saying this, but I'm saying this anyway: She hasn't had this exact same conversation with Marten WHY?
Probably because the penny only dropped yesterday.
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I've compared Dora's insecurities about Faye to Steve's insecurities about Dave before, and now I'm going to bring up this. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1700) In the next strip Cossette even pulls the "I'm WITH YOU. I'm not interested in any other guy." AND THEN a few strips later he talks shamelessly about going to a stripclub in front of Cossette. Hmmmmm.
My question is whether he generated as much heat as Dora did when that happened, and if not, why not? I think Steve's outbursts seem more acceptable than Dora's because he appears to be a simpler dude (maybe only because he's a dude D:), but really they have very similar symptoms. Dora's behaviour automatically seems much worse and scarier because we know she has some kind of psychological scar.
Take, for example, a girl who drinks a lot and sleeps around. And then a girl who drinks a lot and sleeps around whose best friend died while her neglectful parents went through a messy divorce. Suddenly drinking a lot and sleeping around seems less okay, no?
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I'm sure I'm not the first saying this, but I'm saying this anyway: She hasn't had this exact same conversation with Marten WHY?
Have Marten and Dora actually seen each other since they broke up? I can't recall.
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After a popular gaming webcomic (Eh, it's ok), CAD, had a plotline involving a miscarriage, I never assume what artists will or won't do. Tiogyr could back me up on this, perhaps.
As depressed as Jeph may be before today, I hope he never reads this comment (because being put on the same level as CAD ought to be pretty damn insulting).
CAD is popular much like Jersey Shore is popular. I never said it was good. I just mean that an artist whose livelihood depends on a comics success will sometimes throw a curveball in their comic.
I wouldn't even put CAD on the same level as Jersey Shore.
I'm sure I'm not the first saying this, but I'm saying this anyway: She hasn't had this exact same conversation with Marten WHY?
Have Marten and Dora actually seen each other since they broke up? I can't recall.
Only in RK Milholland's warped mind.
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Have Marten and Dora actually seen each other since they broke up? I can't recall.
No. Marten psyched himself up to go into CoD (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1907), but it was the day she was off moving apartment.
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I still don't get the CAD hate. Aside from that stupid storyline (which I should point out was four years ago), it's a generally amusing video game comic that I'm not ashamed to admit I read thrice weekly (and who can hate the yearly Space Archaeologist sagas?) It's not on the level of QC or xkcd, but to say it's Jersey Shore bad seems absurd.
Back on topic, the handshake leading into the hug reminded me of this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1564) (I don't think anyone mentioned that one yet, if so, sorry.)
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In the QC discussion thread for a limited time only: other comic strips!
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I don't get the Jersey Shore hate. Aside from that one punch in the face, it's a generally amusing show that I'm not ashamed to admit I watch weekly (and who can hate the yearly Snooki does Belly Shots sagas?) It's not on the level of Road Rules or Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, but to say it's Ctrl-Alt-Del bad seems absurd.
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I still don't get the CAD hate. Aside from that stupid storyline (which I should point out was four years ago), it's a generally amusing video game comic that I'm not ashamed to admit I read thrice weekly (and who can hate the yearly Space Archaeologist sagas?) It's not on the level of QC or xkcd, but to say it's Jersey Shore bad seems absurd.
Back on topic, the handshake leading into the hug reminded me of this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1564) (I don't think anyone mentioned that one yet, if so, sorry.)
me too.
It's not even meant to be like QC, whole other target audience, whole other basic theme.
And for fucks sake, everybody who watches Jersey Shore and all the other semi-real-life documentaries and reality shows is fully responsible for their continued existance and should be brought to justice! A whole new level should be build in hell just for those who produce that stuff.
In medival times, kings, dukes and emperors were the main financees of the arts, literature, theatre, paintings, sculptures. Our modern sense of beauty was cultivated in that time. What would a Medici or even a Hapsburger have done with those who brought something up like Jersey Shore, Big Brother or Star Search?
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I'm sure I'm not the first saying this, but I'm saying this anyway: She hasn't had this exact same conversation with Marten WHY?
My take: Dora sees Jim as a stronger person than Marten, perhaps as a perceived equal or better. So, relieved of the (self-imposed) burden of making decisions for two (and in her mind swapping dom-sub roles?) she gains a little silence, in which she finally HEARS the penny drop.
That's just my take.
This is not meant to be interpreted as RAWR Dora bad Marten good -- or vice versa.
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I still don't get the CAD hate. Aside from that stupid storyline (which I should point out was four years ago), it's a generally amusing video game comic that I'm not ashamed to admit I read thrice weekly (and who can hate the yearly Space Archaeologist sagas?) It's not on the level of QC or xkcd, but to say it's Jersey Shore bad seems absurd.
There's also the slightly-racist comic he made a few months ago about how black people are loud in movie theaters. I've been trying to find it to put a link to it here but I guess the author did a pretty good job of making sure there's no evidence of his idiocy. If anyone can find a link so no one thinks I'm a liar that'd be great of you.
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Why is it that I suddenly hear The Rembrandts? :-D
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I'm sure I'm not the first saying this, but I'm saying this anyway: She hasn't had this exact same conversation with Marten WHY?
Have Marten and Dora actually seen each other since they broke up? I can't recall.
Nope. I brought this up once but no one replied. Someone else finally said something below...Marten went to CoD with the intention of breaking that ice of not having seen her or visiting his old haunt, but Dora was not there. I find it odd that no one told Dora that he stopped in, that she did not care or have equal anxiety about Marten's inevitable return, or that NO ONE IN THE STRIP has yet to mention that they have not seen each other.
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On the subject of today's strip: Good for Dora! Smartest thing she's said or done since the big break-up fight. Besides going to see a therapist, I suppose...maybe this small breakthrough is because of her therapy session? In any case, I hope she means what she said and backs off dating an older man who she just went into rather serious business with.
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
Yes, I though of this too. I could even see Jim WANTING to wait for Dora to be ready, but then again if he really is more mature than other QC characters then he really should not.
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I still don't get the CAD hate. Aside from that stupid storyline (which I should point out was four years ago), it's a generally amusing video game comic that I'm not ashamed to admit I read thrice weekly (and who can hate the yearly Space Archaeologist sagas?) It's not on the level of QC or xkcd, but to say it's Jersey Shore bad seems absurd.
There's also the slightly-racist comic he made a few months ago about how black people are loud in movie theaters. I've been trying to find it to put a link to it here but I guess the author did a pretty good job of making sure there's no evidence of his idiocy. If anyone can find a link so no one thinks I'm a liar that'd be great of you.
Eh, I read it more as joking about the stereotype than confirming it. I will confirm the comic's existence, though, I just don't feel like looking for it.
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quoted from This Post (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,15338.0.html):
Double posting - when you post twice in a row - is not popular. The edit button is a great way of adding in things you missed.
Normally this doesn't bother me, and I'm fairly new as well, but since 3 of your first 4 posts are right here in a row in fairly quick succession, I thought it worth mentioning. The rest of that post is full of good information as well.
Now to the comic:
Dora's expression in panel three is one of the most adorable things about this one I think. The hug is cute, but I see that look in three and get a lot of subtext like "I really hope he's serious, but he probably isn't, and I probably shouldn't hope that he is anyway, but I was having such a good time..." and she just looks so helpless, like a little lost puppy. Also, the stutter helps with this.
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I don't get the Jersey Shore hate. Aside from that one punch in the face, it's a generally amusing show that I'm not ashamed to admit I watch weekly (and who can hate the yearly Snooki does Belly Shots sagas?) It's not on the level of Road Rules or Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, but to say it's Ctrl-Alt-Del bad seems absurd.
Touché...I probably should've made my point without bringing up Jersey Shore, since I haven't actually watched it. I just hate it because I'm from New Jersey.
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Why is it that I suddenly hear The Rembrandts? :-D
Because you were born before a certain year. And because implanting a song into your head is easier than sticking a crystal into your hand that changes colours when you hit a certain age (And only slightly more painful). Better be careful, Michael York is coming after you!
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Sorry to disappoint, but Box got 'im first this time. :-P
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Mini-realization: Dora has Marten to thank for the amazing pastries and meeting Jim, as without the break-up and subsequent awkwardness, Marten never would have found the coffee shop and have gotten Hannelore and such there.
(Even though, you know, the coffee shop is a butt and Padme is also a butt, according to Hanners. :D )
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I still don't get the CAD hate. Aside from that stupid storyline (which I should point out was four years ago), it's a generally amusing video game comic that I'm not ashamed to admit I read thrice weekly (and who can hate the yearly Space Archaeologist sagas?) It's not on the level of QC or xkcd, but to say it's Jersey Shore bad seems absurd.
There's also the slightly-racist comic he made a few months ago about how black people are loud in movie theaters. I've been trying to find it to put a link to it here but I guess the author did a pretty good job of making sure there's no evidence of his idiocy. If anyone can find a link so no one thinks I'm a liar that'd be great of you.
Here's the comic. (http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110415) However, if you read the newspost under the comic, he posts the original (http://www.cad-comic.com/images/Strip1630.png) and says this:
I agonized the entire day about what to do with the script for today's comic. On the one hand, I felt the joke was funny, and ultimately harmless. But on the other hand, clearly any jab at a racial stereotype, no matter how playfully intended, is going to be a touchy topic for many people.
Allow me to first state that there was absolutely zero intention to offend anyone with today's comic. There was no ill-will, malicious agenda, or racism involved with arriving at the script for the comic. I am about as far from racist as a person can be.
I didn't think it was racist. I thought it was rather amusing, because I'm aware of the stereotype (and know enough black people who aren't loud in movies), so I saw it as poking fun at the whole thing.
Aaaaaaanyway...Jim is pretty awesome. Glad to see people start to respect him as a character. :-)
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he posts the original (http://www.cad-comic.com/images/Strip1630.png)
Well, well; I didn't even know that Opera had a built-in list of pages to be blocked until I clicked that link!
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Mini-realization: Dora has Marten to thank for the amazing pastries and meeting Jim, as without the break-up and subsequent awkwardness, Marten never would have found the coffee shop and have gotten Hannelore and such there.
(Even though, you know, the coffee shop is a butt and Padme is also a butt, according to Hanners. :D )
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Faye and consequently Dora found The Secret Bakery without Marten's help, since Faye was introduced to Padma by Angus (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1857).
On the other hand, Hannelore did accompany Faye to The Secret Bakery (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1857), so maybe it was her idea which she got when she went there with Marten?
I doubt that Dora actually knows the connection between Marten and The Secret Bakery yet. In fact, it's sort of dubious as to whether Faye does as well, depending on whether Hannelore has told her yet.
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Mini-realization: Dora has Marten to thank for the amazing pastries and meeting Jim, as without the break-up and subsequent awkwardness, Marten never would have found the coffee shop and have gotten Hannelore and such there.
(Even though, you know, the coffee shop is a butt and Padme is also a butt, according to Hanners. :D )
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Faye and consequently Dora found The Secret Bakery without Marten's help, since Faye was introduced to Padma by Angus (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1857).
On the other hand, Hannelore did accompany Faye to The Secret Bakery (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1857), so maybe it was her idea which she got when she went there with Marten?
I doubt that Dora actually knows the connection between Marten and The Secret Bakery yet. In fact, it's sort of dubious as to whether Faye does as well, depending on whether Hannelore has told her yet.
Ah, BUT...if Marten hadn't gone to tSB, Jeph (probably) wouldn't have had the idea to incorporate them into the plot; ergo, Marten is to thank for Jim's existance.
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I didn't think it was racist. I thought it was rather amusing, because I'm aware of the stereotype (and know enough black people who aren't loud in movies), so I saw it as poking fun at the whole thing.
Yeah, the usual way to (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8206/soul24db4.gif)poke fun(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8206/soul24db4.gif) at racist stereotypes is to repeat them uncritically.
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This may be the first strip I've never even written a script for; the past couple months of comics have written it already.
This is gonna be good!
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Hmm. I sense caterwauling... Jeph must have had a reason for predicting it, and the date didn't justify that.
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D'awww moment with a shock announcement?
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I didn't think it was racist. I thought it was rather amusing, because I'm aware of the stereotype (and know enough black people who aren't loud in movies), so I saw it as poking fun at the whole thing.
Yeah, the usual way to (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8206/soul24db4.gif)poke fun(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8206/soul24db4.gif) at racist stereotypes is to repeat them uncritically.
I see what you did thar. >.>
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I still don't get the CAD hate.
Still don't get it either, the explanations that people have told me aren't enough tbh. Seen worse, read worse.
Edit: We should stop posting about CAD here though :P
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My question is whether he generated as much heat as Dora did when that happened, and if not, why not?
Steve is generally goofy, which makes him less painful to watch when he's got this kind of burst. Plus, unlike Dora, he actually lets people answer to his remarks instead of cutting them mid-sentence.
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Ah, BUT...if Marten hadn't gone to tSB, Jeph (probably) wouldn't have had the idea to incorporate them into the plot; ergo, Marten is to thank for Jim's existance.
True, although it was established that Angus already knew about the Secret Bakery because (as we're meant to assume) he went out with Renée.
Plus I think that if anyone confronted Dora with that logic, she'd just blink and go "Huh? Who the hell is Jeph?" :P
And I'm thinking not a shock announcement, cause it sounds from Jeph's tweet like this is one of those things that he's been building up to for a while.
All speculation of course, but...
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This may be the first strip I've never even written a script for; the past couple months of comics have written it already. (http://twitter.com/#!/jephjacques/status/88863634150785024)
Well, that's intriguing.
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I'm going to throw out some wild suggestions!
1) Hannelore/Marigold In Lesbians with each other! (for real this time)
2) Faye referring to Angus as her boyfriend!
3) Hannelore/Marten sloppy Makeouts!
4) Faye/Marten sloppy Makeouts!
5) PINTSIZE!
Of course none of these will come true not that I have mentioned them!
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Please read the sticky thread "Conduct in this forum" again before making any more posts like that.
And I note that in U-stream someone (I can't remember if it was you) asked a little while ago if Jeph reads the chat at the side - the answer is yes, sometimes, and sometimes he bans people from it if they make posts that fall outside his tolerance zone.
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Which kind of bugs me, since as far as the shippers goes his/y'all moderators tolerance attitude basically seems to be "don't ship them unless I'm shipping them." I still remember the great Hannelore/Marigold debacle, which led to a comic devoted to crushing the idea (that clearly still festers, as shown above). Just because shippers get overexcited doesn't mean they should be censured or the pairings they prefer off-limits to mention.
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What he dislikes is not so much the shipping per se (though much of it defies any kind of internal logic in the story), but the obsession that goes with most of it. But this has all been discussed in the linked thread, and including contributions from Jeph; what I do is apply the rules as I understand them, hopefully in a manner that will keep Jeph's hate for this place from crushing it.
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And for fucks sake, everybody who watches Jersey Shore and all the other semi-real-life documentaries and reality shows is fully responsible for their continued existance and should be brought to justice! A whole new level should be build in hell just for those who produce that stuff.
In medival times, kings, dukes and emperors were the main financees of the arts, literature, theatre, paintings, sculptures. Our modern sense of beauty was cultivated in that time. What would a Medici or even a Hapsburger have done with those who brought something up like Jersey Shore, Big Brother or Star Search?
Uhm, gross, because Medieval art was shit. It was all flat gold leaf and Jesus. A Medici (now we're talking Renaissance, but I still find it overstated) or a Hapsburger would likely have done the same with Van Gogh, George Segal, Picasso and also burned Jackson Pollock alive. For Jersey Shore, I say the artwork is as good as the viewer. If you held an event that brought together the world's snobbiest snobs, and called it modern art, they would damn well find the meaning in it.
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Just read today's comic. I feel like I'm having Flashbacks (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509).
Soon, Jim will find himself in a relationship with another girl, only to have her eventually dump him, but by then Dora will have gone through a short sexual fling with one guy and ended up seeing another.
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What he dislikes is not so much the shipping per se (though much of it defies any kind of internal logic in the story), but the obsession that goes with most of it. But this has all been discussed in the linked thread, and including contributions from Jeph; what I do is apply the rules as I understand them, hopefully in a manner that will keep Jeph's hate for this place from crushing it.
Which makes me feel like we're at the mercy of a fickle and occasionally very drunk god (and the mods are the priests trying to interpret His will), which is why I became an agnostic in the first place. With all true respect to said deity, if He hates this particular creation of His He should either leave it alone completely or just delete it from existence, not rage when he comes along and, yup, those damn humans aren't following His will again, leading to somewhat random death and great floods (okay, bans and thread locks).
I don't mind there being a code of conduct, of course. I just wish it wasn't based on the will of someone who, the last two times I saw contact from them on this board (albeit that was last November), was drunk and random and generally being a dick. *Ducks tomato* he was, that picture thread he made was not worksafe and he was c/rude to anyone that posted in it, including editing their comments to be self-deprecating. If he wants to be hands off and let the mods take care of things, then he should actually do that.
But I'm repeating a lot of what was said on the conduct thread (wish I had read it before, it was interesting), and he hasn't been around in months to my knowledge, so my thoughts are largely already in practice. I still feel like we're cowering in case he drops by and flips out that someone mentioned Hannelore, Marigold, and lesbians in the same sentence, rather than because that's actually detrimental to the atmosphere.
*Glances at signature*
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Which makes me feel like we're at the mercy of a fickle and occasionally very drunk god (and the mods are the priests trying to interpret His will), which is why I became an agnostic in the first place. With all true respect to said deity, if He hates this particular creation of His He should either leave it alone completely or just delete it from existence, not rage when he comes along and, yup, those damn humans aren't following His will again, leading to somewhat random death and great floods (okay, bans and thread locks).
I don't mind there being a code of conduct, of course. I just wish it wasn't based on the will of someone who, the last two times I saw contact from them on this board (albeit that was last November), was drunk and random and generally being a dick. *Ducks tomato* he was, that picture thread he made was not worksafe and he was c/rude to anyone that posted in it, including editing their comments to be self-deprecating. If he wants to be hands off and let the mods take care of things, then he should actually do that.
But I'm repeating a lot of what was said on the conduct thread (wish I had read it before, it was interesting), and he hasn't been around in months to my knowledge, so my thoughts are largely already in practice. I still feel like we're cowering in case he drops by and flips out that someone mentioned Hannelore, Marigold, and lesbians in the same sentence, rather than because that's actually detrimental to the atmosphere.
*Glances at signature*
He's showed up once since then to ban someone for making posts very similar to what you're making here, so yeah, you may want to drop it (insofar as that person saying Jeph should either let people freely express their opinions or delete the forums altogether because they serve no purpose if they're so heavily censored that nobody can post about the comic unless they agree with the author).
I still don't get the CAD hate.
Still don't get it either, the explanations that people have told me aren't enough tbh. Seen worse, read worse.
Edit: We should stop posting about CAD here though :P
Because Buckley can't draw for shit (his female characters have bigger groin bulges than his male characters, what's up with that? Also, nobody has hair, they have birds resting on their heads.), his comics are terrible and unfunny, and he's also an abusive dick to everyone he knows "in real life" and every other webcomic author that has met him in person can confirm this.
The only good thing to come out of CAD are the mockery pages in the comic sub-forum of SA (which also resulted in the Zalgo meme).
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Which makes me feel like we're at the mercy of a fickle and occasionally very drunk god (and the mods are the priests trying to interpret His will), which is why I became an agnostic in the first place. With all true respect to said deity, if He hates this particular creation of His He should either leave it alone completely or just delete it from existence, not rage when he comes along and, yup, those damn humans aren't following His will again, leading to somewhat random death and great floods (okay, bans and thread locks).
Or see it from the perspective that these characters are Jeph's creation, and with that comes a disgust when someone makes a comment along the lines of "Hanners and Marigold come out as lesbians and have been since they met."
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somewhat random death and great floods (okay, bans and thread locks)
Not many threads get locked, and the reason is usually quite clear. Often it's trivial, like avoiding a duplicated discussion (if it's still possible, I prefer to merge threads when this happens, but sometimes the result would be unreadable).
that picture thread he made was not worksafe and he was c/rude to anyone that posted in it, including editing their comments
Yeah, I hated it when he did that.
But I'm repeating a lot of what was said on the conduct thread (wish I had read it before, it was interesting)
That's what it's for... And he posted here only a few weeks ago, when he banned a user - the only ban of a normal contributor since before the breakup last autumn.
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He's showed up once since then to ban someone for making posts very similar to what you're making here, so yeah, you may want to drop it.
I was finishing with that last post, so I kind of already dropped it. Do you have linkage to this event? And similar in what way?
EDIT: Apparently it happened a few weeks ago, but might I get pointed to the right thread?
Or see it from the perspective that these characters are Jeph's creation, and with that comes a disgust when someone makes a comment along the lines of "Hanners and Marigold come out as lesbians and have been since they met."
Shoot, I'm trying to drop this people. But I feel I must say that considering the number of romantic relationships in this comic and the unforeseeability of some of them (say, Faye and Sven), people are naturally going to be looking for or inventing their own wacky pairing, trying to predict what's next. There have been many polls to that effect. That there are some pairings he dislikes and some of the supporters of those pairings get exuberant is not by the general tone of this forum enough grounds for banning them or deleting their posts, both of which I have seen, though not recently. Especially since one of those pairings did have a "opposites attract" vibe that made it appealing to some despite it's crackiness. They're his creation, its our interpretation.
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Where´s my comiiiiiic?
Gah.. I´m hooked through the bag :|
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the last two times I saw contact from them on this board
Ah, now, correct me if I'm wrong, but last November would have contained the week of the breakup, wouldn't it?
I don't think Jeph's actions were entirely unrelated to that...
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can I least get pointed to the right thread?
Here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,26731.msg1037765.html#msg1037765). And Tiogyr's analysis of the reason is not quite right; the poster was being rude and personal. As it happens, Jeph appeared (as far as I can tell) in response to a post being reported; coincidentally, the mods were discussing a ban, but it happened before they got there!
Where´s my comiiiiiic?
He's on the last frame (after 3 1/2 hours); all new fiddly backgrounds, lots of perspective to work out, varied poses. The text will be the thing in this one - I can't tell from the pictures what it will contain (or maybe I can, actually).
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Ah, now, correct me if I'm wrong, but last November would have contained the week of the breakup, wouldn't it?
I don't think Jeph's actions were entirely unrelated to that...
It was extremely related to that, yes. But he still made the choices he made, some of them not appropriate and some downright offputting.
can I least get pointed to the right thread?
Here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,26731.msg1037765.html#msg1037765). And Tiogyr's analysis of the reason is not quite right; the poster was being rude and personal. As it happens, Jeph appeared (as far as I can tell) in response to a post being reported; coincidentally, the mods were discussing a ban, but it happened before they got there!
Thanks. So that explains why I haven't seen anything from Odin lately. The immediate post doesn't seem especially permaban worthy (more take a week and cool off worthy), but I'm working my way backwards (EDIT: and seeing that most of it isn't there...) and yeah, being openly contemptuous of your fellow forumgoers and optimism reeks of dickishness. But did he at least get a warning first? That's what I get paranoid about, that someday I'll try to log on and... can't.
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But did he at least get a warning first? That's what I get paranoid about, that someday I'll try to log on and... can't.
Not from Jeph, I'd guess, but he'd had multiple warnings from me, starting way back in December, and including one earlier that day. On my watch, only spammers get banned without warning, which is entirely different. When people (like Odin) have intelligent and useful contributions to make, I prefer to try to persuade them to keep within the rules so that we can keep them around.
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He's on the last frame (after 3 1/2 hours); all new fiddly backgrounds, lots of perspective to work out, varied poses. The text will be the thing in this one - I can't tell from the pictures what it will contain (or maybe I can, actually).
Heh. Either the comic will be quite abstract or maybe there´s something wrong with your eyes ;D
Joking..
I´m superpsyched and appreciate all the work that goes into them, especially since the comic keeps looking better and better from (seemingly) week to week!!
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But did he at least get a warning first? That's what I get paranoid about, that someday I'll try to log on and... can't.
Not from Jeph, I'd guess, but he'd had multiple warnings from me, starting way back in December, and including one earlier that day. On my watch, only spammers get banned without warning, which is entirely different. When people (like Odin) have intelligent and useful contributions to make, I prefer to try to persuade them to keep within the rules so that we can keep them around.
Alright, that does allay my concerns quite a bit. Thanks.
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Please read the sticky thread "Conduct in this forum" again before making any more posts like that.
Huh, I figured that post was being ironic, but then again, I suppose intolerance doesn't cater for irony. If I hated leeks, and someone served me leeks ironically, I'd still be pretty pissed.
Have Marten and Dora actually seen each other since they broke up? I can't recall.
Only in RK Milholland's warped mind.
Ah, yes. I didn't think they had, what with Marten's wasted psych-up etc, but I had a vague recollection of them talking and couldn't remember if it was a guest comic. Cheers.
Edit: Ohh!
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It'll be up in a moment, and it's absolutely a cliff-hanger...
Huh, I figured that post was being ironic, but then again, I suppose intolerance doesn't cater for irony.
I was more concerned with what it could lead to if I didn't step in; there'll be enough to think about shortly.
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As the forum will shortly become toxic, I'll hang back and watch for a couple days.
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FINALLY.
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Awwwww shit.
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Saw this coming. Can't wait for this convo! :-D
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AW MAN, now we have to wait until Monday for a reso- wait, this is Thursday. So does that mean we'll get some follow up, or a comic off the main story line, or :psyduck:
My vote for maximum hilarity: three panels of staring and then the can in midair, with speedlines leading off panel.
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Faye's seen her coming in the first panel, she no doubt herds the others inside.
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Angus is talking, gets cut off, everyone disappears. No warning for Marteen.
I laughed.
Edit: Angus? No, that's not Angus! AUUGHGHHHHHH I hate being wrong publicly.
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Well. Guten Abend, indeed.
I can see I'll be wondering about this for the next day.
I love how he was the last one to see her... very nicely done comic, if I may say.
Looking forward to tomorrow.
Faye's seen her coming in the first panel, she no doubt herds the others inside.
I think Marigold saw her as well.
edit: gah stop posting so fast, people.
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Hold onto your lolbutts people.
It's gonna be a bumpy ride.
Twenty pages by Monday.
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Twenty pages by Monday.
My money's on 18. Place your bets now!
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Bet: 15 pages. Although not much more than that.
Marten has a very slow head-turning speed for Dora to walk up on him like that without him noticing :laugh:
And I'm not sure how wise it will seem in retrospect, but I think that for now everyone made the right decision in leaving them alone to talk it out.
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Marten has a very slow head-turning speed for Dora to walk up on him like that without him noticing :laugh:
You're missing the point. The big revelation of this comic is that Dora is a NINJA.
You think those others just disappeared of their own accord? Nuh-uh.
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D'awwwww.
22 pages by Monday.
Oh, and DSL, wherever you're hiding.....can some of us hide there too?
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I liked this one very much. I was like "what, where is everyone/why do they just go away" because somehow I didn't expect Dora (though yesterday I thought, it would be funny if she showed up at the party, maybe even with Jim which would be absolutely unrealistic and probably a catastrophe but well my brain).
Also how Marten crushes his can in the last panel.
Marten has a very slow head-turning speed for Dora to walk up on him like that without him noticing
I thought he was looking at the ground most of the time before she arrived.
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Please, Marten was obviously not looking out at the road, but rather at a rather interesting bit of something on the ground, so he didn't see/hear Dora.
Dora is no ninja - ninja (if the existed) are rather unlikely to have worn black outfits like we imagine them in - appropriate clothing to approach the target is much more likely, and black, is really not a good colour to hide in at night. Still, she'd probably look good in an Elecktra-style outfit...
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This calls for a prediction. Here's one.
Friday:
"Hi!" <awkward silence> "Hi. How have you been?" "Coping, I guess." <awkward silence> <handshake offered> <a hug given> 23 pages by Monday (I like prime numbers, you see).
Monday:
1st panel: Marten enters the building. Everybody (=everybody we know by name) turns to stare. May be the music stops?
2nd panel: Marten walks to Hannelore (or Marigold). "May I have this dance?"
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But how did she keep her high heels from making that click-clack sound on the cement as she approached...
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Yeah, I thought Marten was going to say "fuck it" and go inside and dance and enjoy himself.
This will work, too, though.
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But how did she keep her high heels from making that click-clack sound on the cement as she approached...
She came over the grass, perhaps; the music is blaring (I don't see Tai's party being quiet, given the rave she set up in the library).
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Dora is no ninja - ninja (if the existed) are rather unlikely to have worn black outfits like we imagine them in - appropriate clothing to approach the target is much more likely, and black, is really not a good colour to hide in at night. Still, she'd probably look good in an Elecktra-style outfit...
Don't worry, you don't need to lecture me on the practical reality of ninja. I lecture other people. Ninja probably didn't wear cocktail dresses, either. ;)
However, the more I read the comic with my ninja interpretation, the more it seems to fit. :-D
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It's almost like these threads represents the subconsciousness of the main characters, just a whirlwind of thoughts, crazy emotions out of control and some guilt and anger to add. While in the comic, things almost always sort of work out, one way or another. :-)
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I'm surprised this happened on a Thursday and no notes about regular QC to return Monday. :)
Looks like an old fashioned showdown at the OK Coral coming up, and Faye is from Georgia too. :)
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Tomorrow: Anthro-PCs!
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IBL.
What's on tap for this week?
The Eagles make a reappearance Monday! - 7 (6.9%)
Dora meets Samantha (Jim's daughter) - 9 (8.9%)
Dora runs into Jim's EX. - 0 (0%)
Back to the Par-TAY! with Mar & Hanners - 39 (38.6%)
Sven's new GF - Jim's EX! - 8 (7.9%)
Faye and Marten's night - 16 (15.8%)
The Espressosaur Returns! - 10 (9.9%)
Waffles! - 5 (5%)
Drunken Postings! - 7 (6.9%)
Total Voters: 101
I really, really, really want to put up a new poll, but I don't wanna guarantee that this thread gets locked because of the residual arguments.
It'd be pretty simple: "Dora meets Marten. Result?"
Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with poll answers that would keep this thread from being nuked from orbit.
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Tomorrow: Anthro-PCs!
Don't be cruel :cry:
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Tomorrow: Anthro-PCs!
Don't be cruel :cry:
To a heart that's truuuueee...
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I really, really, really want to put up a new poll, but I don't wanna guarantee that this thread gets locked because of the residual arguments.
It'd be pretty simple: "Dora meets Marten. Result?"
Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with poll answers that would keep this thread from being nuked from orbit.
Just two answers.
"Dora and Marten have an adult conversation."
"The forum caterwauls."
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This calls for a prediction. Here's one.
Friday:
"Hi!" <awkward silence> "Hi. How have you been?" "Coping, I guess." <awkward silence> <handshake offered> <a hug given> 23 pages by Monday (I like prime numbers, you see).
Monday:
1st panel: Marten enters the building. Everybody (=everybody we know by name) turns to stare. May be the music stops?
2nd panel: Marten walks to Hannelore (or Marigold). "May I have this dance?"
Friday:
"Why are you sitting out here alone?"
"Just didn't feel like dancing."
"Oh ok. Well, nice seeing you." (goes inside to dance)
"Yeah...you too...sigh" (sad Marten shot)
Monday:
Marten wakes up the next day and decides he's going to grow a pair and stop aimlessly moping through life because it's depressing as hell to watch.
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I thought to myself "that's a good way to end the week, leave everyone hanging onto what the next word would be." But then I remembered that today is only Thursday. Hmm.
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This calls for a prediction. Here's one.
Friday:
"Hi!" <awkward silence> "Hi. How have you been?" "Coping, I guess." <awkward silence> <handshake offered> <a hug given> 23 pages by Monday (I like prime numbers, you see).
Monday:
1st panel: Marten enters the building. Everybody (=everybody we know by name) turns to stare. May be the music stops?
2nd panel: Marten walks to Hannelore (or Marigold). "May I have this dance?"
Friday:
"Why are you sitting out here alone?"
"Just didn't feel like dancing."
"Oh ok. Well, nice seeing you." (goes inside to dance)
"Yeah...you too...sigh" (sad Marten shot)
Monday:
Guest comic by Chris Hastings with Marten pulling a gun out of his ass and blowing his brains out as Faye is coming out the door to check on him.
The rest of the week is guest comics by other webcomic artists highlighting all the various ways Marten can do something terrible after Dora ignores him and goes into the party, complete with a Carrie-esque comic by the person that does Manly Guys Doing Manly Things
Fixed, because I'd love to see this happen.
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Tomorrow: Anthro-PCs!
Don't be cruel :cry:
To a heart that's truuuueee...
Precisely :laugh:
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Whow.
WHOW.
W-H-O-W !!!!
Now thats an entry. :-D
I really didnt expected that one.
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Friday:
"Why are you sitting out here alone?"
"Just didn't feel like dancing."
"Oh ok. Well, nice seeing you." (goes inside to dance)
"Yeah...you too...sigh" (sad Marten shot)
Nah, that would be a huge anti-climax. Jeph isnt that cruel to us. Or is he ? *paranoid*
Monday:
Marten wakes up the next day and decides he's going to grow a pair [...]
Yeah ... right ... very likely. :roll:
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So, in order...
@Tiogyr mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Yes, I meant Jeph, but muscle memory went with the most common variation. There's also the "concensus" typo. That's what I get for trying to post from work on crappy IE8.
Comic: Oh, damn. Not cool, guys, not cool. Just...wow. Faye sees Dora coming, absconds with any possible defenses Marten can leverage, and utterly abandons her friend to a confrontation he is not mentally prepared to handle? And she's ignoring he's been drinking too? Probably no more than a couple beers, but alcohol's effect is insidious.
Wow. That's a dick move, Faye.
On a more positive note, damn, Marigold. DAT @$$!!!
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I like how this has become an old western.
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Not cool, guys, not cool. Just...wow. Faye sees Dora coming, absconds with any possible defenses Marten can leverage, and utterly abandons her friend to a confrontation he is not mentally prepared to handle?
I disagree - discretely leaving them to meet in some form of privacy is almost certainly best, even if uncomfortable.
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I'll say only 14 pages...
...it's like The Price is Right; you want to be closest without going over. :-D
We'll see if I'm caterwauling by this time tomorrow.
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I'll say only 14 pages...
...it's like The Price is Right; you want to be closest without going over. :-D
We'll see if I'm caterwauling by this time tomorrow.
13 pages. :evil:
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On the western theme, Faye is def Marten's Doc Holiday, down to them both being from Georgia and I"m sure she is watching from inside...
but in this case, since neither of them did anything wrong really (there was no physical abuse or cheating or verbal abuse, etc), it's better to let him talk to her alone than to gang up on Dora. They have things they need to work out, and to do that they need to be open as much as possible. With Faye and Angus and Hanners and Marigold all there, Dora could easily go crazy defensive and any chance of them putting this behind them and becoming friends again could die.
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Today's comic (Thrusday's) feels more like a Friday comic. Now I'm going to have my days messed up.
But yes, most likely anthro-pcs tomorrow.
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It's entirely possible that Faye and Angus are still on the porch.
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On the western theme, Faye is def Marten's Doc Holiday, down to them both being from Georgia and I"m sure she is watching from inside...
but in this case, since neither of them did anything wrong really (there was no physical abuse or cheating or verbal abuse, etc), it's better to let him talk to her alone than to gang up on Dora. They have things they need to work out, and to do that they need to be open as much as possible. With Faye and Angus and Hanners and Marigold all there, Dora could easily go crazy defensive and any chance of them putting this behind them and becoming friends again could die.
Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
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I really, really, really want to put up a new poll, but I don't wanna guarantee that this thread gets locked because of the residual arguments.
It'd be pretty simple: "Dora meets Marten. Result?"
Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with poll answers that would keep this thread from being nuked from orbit.
What? The thread will get locked because you did a poll? Because people will disagree about a silly, speculative game? The moderators would seriously close the weekly discussion thread over such a thing? Has this happened before?
ALSO: loved today's comic. I often question characters actions and motivations in this series, but Dora's action in this and yesterday's strip seem very natural and logical to me. I trust they will have a good talk...
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Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
Because this is a webcomic.....and we're all big giant saps who want everyone to be friends :-P
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The moderators would seriously close the weekly discussion thread over such a thing? Has this happened before?
No and no.
I don't normally see the poll, because I go straight to next unread; and if there were something really objectionable (unlikely, I imagine), I'd simply edit it away (and have a word with the writer) rather than close the thread on that account.
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Wile E Coyote's impersonation, by the whole gang, on panel 4 had me giggling.
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You don't have to, but I think in this case, they were friends before, so it would be a shame to loose everything.
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Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
I am with you on this one... I have found that I NEED that sharp cutoff in order to really move on, and once I have, there's not a gap in my social circle that needs to be filled by someone who (at least with my exes) isn't a particularly good or interesting person. Every time I've tried to "be friends" I've used that relationship as an emotional crutch to keep myself from moving on or dealing with my pain. Then again, I have mostly dated people who weren't core members of my friend group, so I'm sure that would be different.
Still, I can see why grudges or walls of silence are pretty unworkable in a comic when the relationship is between two major characters, unless you are going to write one of them out. And given that Marten is arguably the main character and Dora is Jeph's favorite character, that seems pretty unlikely. If they are just totally not interacting it means you have to have these major demarcations in your storylines where certain characters can't be, or can't be in the same place, or someone has to reiterate what the other one said. When you share friends you generally have to get at least to a place where you're not putting your friends through this "I'm having a party but if I invite him I can't invite HER, and I can't invite HIM cause now she's dating him and that would be uncomfortable" thing.
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Uh Oh!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JJJMcb8IB9c/TSS-B2y8RGI/AAAAAAAABnI/wAL-K1Zg4Bk/s1600/dramabomb.jpg)
really wish I could find a lumpy space princess meme saying drama bomb.
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Now it doesn't really matter if Dora runs into Jim's ex, since they're just friends now.
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Tomorrow: Anthro-PCs!
Don't be cruel :cry:
To a heart that's truuuueee...
I don't want no other love,
Baby it's just you I'm dreamin' of..."
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Friday:
"Why are you sitting out here alone?"
"Just didn't feel like dancing."
"Oh ok. Well, nice seeing you." (goes inside to dance)
"Yeah...you too...sigh" (sad Marten shot)
Nah, that would be a huge anti-climax. Jeph isnt that cruel to us. Or is he ? *paranoid*
Monday:
Marten wakes up the next day and decides he's going to grow a pair [...]
Yeah ... right ... very likely. :roll:
Life is full of anti-climaxes. First conversations after a breakup are normally short and awkward, more so for the person who did the dumping. I could see her not wanting to talk about things right now, but Jeph probably wouldn't want Dora coming off as uncaring.
If Dora moved on with someone new and people stop indulging his bad attitude, he just might change. I've seen people get inspired and pull 180s.
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Tomorrow: Anthro-PCs!
Don't be cruel :cry:
To a heart that's truuuueee...
I don't want no other love,
Baby it's just you I'm dreamin' of..."
Talk about caterwauling on the forums...
<ducks>
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Mr. Presley would like to have a word with you.
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5402/10elvis1.jpg)
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Life is full of anti-climaxes.
"You're so bad in bed, when you f***ed me I had an anti-climax!" :evil:
I am very glad this comic was not posted on a Friday. It removes the need for me to hunt down Jeph and trepan him with a pizza cutter.
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Life is full of anti-climaxes.
"You're so bad in bed, when you f***ed me I had an anti-climax!" :evil:
I am very glad this comic was not posted on a Friday. It removes the need for me to hunt down Jeph and trepan him with a pizza cutter.
What would that even feel like? Just, the worst feeling ever? lol.
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Preview of tomorrow's strip!
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/SomebodyED/1965.png?1)
:-D
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Oh man... Is Marten wearing jeggings?
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Oh man... Is Marten wearing jeggings?
ugh, that has to be the worst made up word ever.
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Oh man... Is Marten wearing jeggings?
ugh, that has to be the worst made up word ever.
which is perfect for the worst article of clothing ever.
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:x
This is slightly better than the drunken ex calling you up at 3 in the morning, to tell you that she was wrong for what she thought about you; that she was wrong for breaking up with you, and that she's so sorry, and you know she still loves you...
ONLY slightly, and I still stand by my feelings on this, Marten didn't deserve the breakup, and now what? She feels better, so it's okay to approach him, after she's been out on a date of course.
:psyduck:
My brain is literally thumping in my head right now. I'm convinced it's because Jeph is digging around in there for more story ideas.
Stupid comic characters mimicking my life anyway...
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Oh my, what a cliffhanger. I'm so glad it's Thursday.
My prediction: Marten will inquire about the date, Dora will say something about needing to work out her issues, the two will hug &thenrunawayandgetmarried and it will be kind of awkward.
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Preview of tomorrow's strip!
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/SomebodyED/1965.png?1)
:-D
You know what the greatest troll would be? Jeph walking into the forum right now, glancing at this, making a .GIF that runs for about 20 seconds with this image on top, THEN switching to real comic. I figure it takes about 5 seconds to read the comic, 10 seconds of shock, then 5 seconds to go "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-"
and then the real comic appears.
..am I that bad a person that I really hope Jeph does that?
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Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
Because everyone is thinking about this in terms of Marten/Dora and I don't think either of those two can just move on like that. Also they were friends before going out and both seem the kind of people who would want to remain friends if they could.
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...and I still stand by my feelings on this, Marten didn't deserve the breakup, and now what? She feels better, so it's okay to approach him, after she's been out on a date of course.
I feel bad for Marten here. I know Dora probably means well, and she wants to talk to him in a kind way, but there was no warning for him to prepare himself, and face-to-face is pretty intense. Marten took the breakup hard, whereas Dora was sad, but appeared to be dealing with it better. She was far more ready to move on than he was I feel like her showing up (what appears to be) immediately after the unsuccessful date is an awkward way to handle things - I'm not really sure WHY I feel that way, though.
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@Tiogyr
Manly Guys Doing Manly Things, thank you for that bit of info. a very nice strip :D
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OK, so I made a poll for the end of the week.
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So I haven't had my coffee and am thus not awake enough to scrub through the entire thread, but did anybody else enjoy the subtle artwork of Marten crushing/crumpling the can in surprise? I like it when Jeph throws in those little artistic easter eggs.
Beyond that... I'm glad to see Dora and Marten are finally going to be able to talk again. Even if they're not going out, I missed their chemistry on-panel, and the lack of it was a sad series of events. I think it's time they tentatively made up so that they can join in on regular shenanigans together.
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On the western theme, Faye is def Marten's Doc Holiday, down to them both being from Georgia and I"m sure she is watching from inside...
but in this case, since neither of them did anything wrong really (there was no physical abuse or cheating or verbal abuse, etc), it's better to let him talk to her alone than to gang up on Dora. They have things they need to work out, and to do that they need to be open as much as possible. With Faye and Angus and Hanners and Marigold all there, Dora could easily go crazy defensive and any chance of them putting this behind them and becoming friends again could die.
Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
All I've really noticed is that you have a thing against exes BEING friends. It wasn't like they weren't friends before they dated, and they were pretty good friends. Someone being bad for you in a relationship DOESN'T mean that they are bad for you as a friend. On top of that, the person you quoted didn't even SAY they had to be friends. Just that they needed to talk. Maybe what they need to talk about is "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan".
Honestly, I've, never dated someone I WASN'T friends with first. I can't understand WHY you would want to date someone that you wouldn't be friends with otherwise. So even if things don't work out, there is nothing wrong with being friends with them afterwords. We get along, just, not in a relationship. Doesn't mean I HAVE to be friends with them, but it does mean that it is an option.
Every post you make about it, just seems like you think it should NEVER be an option. How does incompatibility in a relationship prevent two people from being friends?
As for the "Ninja" Dora. Marten has been drinking, he was looking at the ground, and at a CROWDED party, someone was approaching the front door. I know that I don't look up at every person coming up to the door of a large party, even if they are clicking all the way up the driveway in their heels.
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Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
Why do you act like reconciliation is a bad thing?
Why can't two people who allegedly liked each other to begin stay friends even though things didn't work out romantically, since they're still roughly the same decent people they were in the beginning?
I'd say more, but it'd disrupt the symmetry.
OK, so I made a poll for the end of the week.
And I was the first to vote in it! I voted the 3rd from the bottom (we see the party), because I'm imagining it like when Marigold first went to the bar. We get three panels of commentary and then it cuts back to Marten replying "hey..."
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I'm convinced it's because Jeph is digging around in there for more story ideas.
If he runs out of ideas, he could just come to these forums and find some shipping ideas people have thrown out......
Also, did anyone seem to think of the lyrics to Safety Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7movKfyTBII) in the dialogue between Hanners and Marigold?
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
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I think it probably would have been better for Dora to show up before his lunchbreak with a cup of coffee and baked goods to help diffuse the shock that was pretty much inevitable.
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
For the record, my most volatile break-up (a three year relationship that went south for all the wrong reasons, I won't bore you) went from "we will never speak with each other again" to "I think you're really interesting, so let's stay friends" in the span of a few weeks. Once people have some time to cool off and objectively look at things, they can make rational decisions after the most irrational events.
We're not talking about Dora or Marten cheating, or abusing one another, or something irreconcilable like that; we're talking about two friends who got together, but then the relationship fell apart due to Dora's trust issues. Yeah the breakup was messy at the time, but they've had plenty of time to cool off, can talk about their relationship rationally, and decide to be just friends again. Will it be awkward at first? Most likely, it usually is when dealing with an ex-lover. But things will get better.
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
But why? I had, one breakup, that, ended with, a gigantic, completely screwed up fight. We didn't talk for a couple of months. Then we realised that, WE STILL CARED ABOUT EACH OTHER, we just couldn't be together because we aren't compatible romantically.
We still make great friends, and, talk all the time. Of course, I'm sure, your anecdotal evidence will show me why my anecdotal evidence DOESN'T EXIST. Because no one can be friends after a bad break up.
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
not necessarily. If one of them had really screwed the relationship over, i.e. Marten conns Dora out of all of her money and leaves town, or Dora messes with birth control to have Marten's baby without his consent....
something of that magnitude would take post-breakup friendship off the table. Marten and Dora realizing that they were fighting way too much and that Dora wanted to break off the relationship to work on her issues? not of that magnitude.
Maybe if they were still in highschool, but they're adults. They have the same friend circle and genuinely enjoy hanging out with each other. While they might need some space for a while, there is no reason why they shouldn't be good friends or just regular friends at some point in the future.
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
In relationships, nothing should take anything off the table automatically, because people are people, and people are weird. Aside from her insecurity and paranoia, there were no major problems with their relationship. Remove her triggers for that (in this case, being romantically involved with him) and they should be able to get along just fine after some cooling off and honest talk. Or they could spaz at each other, he moves back home, and we get QC: Kalifornia Edition. Yes, the K is necessary.
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I'm not sure if "staying friends" works well or is a good idea if only one partner dumped the other one. Since said other one most probably still has completely different feelings for them. I mean, Marten wouldn't have ended that relationship, would he? But then again, he might be more happy about at least being friends with Dora than nothing. But actually, I have no idea what Marten thinks about the relationship and the break up by now.
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I'm not sure if "staying friends" works well or is a good idea if only one partner dumped the other one. Since said other one most probably still has completely different feelings for them. I mean, Marten wouldn't have ended that relationship, would he? But then again, he might be more happy about at least being friends with Dora than nothing. But actually, I have no idea what Marten thinks about the relationship and the break up by now.
This in particular is also why I don't think they should try to be friends. If Dora were to say she wanted to get back together, Marten would jump at the chance and that is why they need to not be friends until Marten makes some progress of his own with regard to moving on (or at least stops moping and sighing about it).
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...and I still stand by my feelings on this, Marten didn't deserve the breakup, and now what? She feels better, so it's okay to approach him, after she's been out on a date of course.
I feel bad for Marten here. I know Dora probably means well, and she wants to talk to him in a kind way, but there was no warning for him to prepare himself, and face-to-face is pretty intense. Marten took the breakup hard, whereas Dora was sad, but appeared to be dealing with it better. She was far more ready to move on than he was I feel like her showing up (what appears to be) immediately after the unsuccessful date is an awkward way to handle things - I'm not really sure WHY I feel that way, though.
I can see where you are coming from here but on balance I think sooner rather than later is better. Marten already tried to return to COD so he has prepared himself for the meeting at least once. He also knew Dora was on a date and is sitting outside at a party, probably brooding about the whole thing. Better to have things unexpectedly move forward for real than spend all evening getting drunker wondering how the date is going.
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
No. You don't get to define how the world works; and plenty of people can show that much of the time it doesn't work the way you appear to believe.
If Dora were to say she wanted to get back together, Marten would jump at the chance and that is why they need to not be friends until Marten makes some progress of his own with regard to moving on (or at least stops moping and sighing about it).
Your words are confusing the issue again - "getting back together" and "being friends" have very different implications. Also, being friends starts with not being enemies - not an unreasonable thing to try, as I have found.
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I'm not sure if "staying friends" works well or is a good idea if only one partner dumped the other one. Since said other one most probably still has completely different feelings for them. I mean, Marten wouldn't have ended that relationship, would he? But then again, he might be more happy about at least being friends with Dora than nothing. But actually, I have no idea what Marten thinks about the relationship and the break up by now.
I think that, as Marten is Mr Passive, he would simply prefer to ignore the whole thing and pretend like he doesn't care.
I'm willing to make a prediction that although tomorrow's strip could be a moment of high drama (my initial reaction to today's final panel was: "whoah, it just got real") it will probably just be a total anti-climax; Marten will say 'Hi', Dora will ask how the party is going (or some other innocuous question), Marten will give a vague non-committal reply and then Dora will walk up the steps and into the house. Maybe next week, there will be a strip where Marten discusses this with Steve, or maybe Faye, and Dora complains about something to someone.
Nothing happens quickly in QC, case in point, the breakup was months ago and Marten and Dora are only now having their first meeting as exes.
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A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
No. You don't get to define how the world works;
I'm not defining how the world works, I was responding to a bunch of people essentially arguing that there was no reason whatsoever for Dora and Marten not to be friends after their shitty relationship came to a shitty breakup.
and plenty of people can show that much of the time it doesn't work the way you appear to believe.
And I'll just let leahneedsanap's agreement post speak for me here, because they're saying essentially the same thing I am.
Why do people keep acting like exes have to reconcile and become friends after breaking up?
Why can't they have an "Our relationship was doomed to start with, we weren't compatible, but it was fun while it lasted until shit hit the fan" moment and move on with their lives?
I am with you on this one... I have found that I NEED that sharp cutoff in order to really move on, and once I have, there's not a gap in my social circle that needs to be filled by someone who (at least with my exes) isn't a particularly good or interesting person. Every time I've tried to "be friends" I've used that relationship as an emotional crutch to keep myself from moving on or dealing with my pain. Then again, I have mostly dated people who weren't core members of my friend group, so I'm sure that would be different.
Still, I can see why grudges or walls of silence are pretty unworkable in a comic when the relationship is between two major characters, unless you are going to write one of them out. And given that Marten is arguably the main character and Dora is Jeph's favorite character, that seems pretty unlikely. If they are just totally not interacting it means you have to have these major demarcations in your storylines where certain characters can't be, or can't be in the same place, or someone has to reiterate what the other one said. When you share friends you generally have to get at least to a place where you're not putting your friends through this "I'm having a party but if I invite him I can't invite HER, and I can't invite HIM cause now she's dating him and that would be uncomfortable" thing.
Your words are confusing the issue again - "getting back together" and "being friends" have very different implications. Also, being friends starts with not being enemies - not an unreasonable thing to try, as I have found.
The point I'm trying to make (and that leah got) is that they can't be friends until after Marten gets over the breakup himself.
Which isn't going to happen as long as he's moping around about it.
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I'll just let leahneedsanap's agreement post speak for me here, because they're saying essentially the same thing I am.
Leah's experience is as valid as mine, and different. You can't just choose one of us and say "they're right (because they agree with me), and they're wrong". You have to allow for uncertainty and variability.
The point I'm trying to make (and that leah got) is that they can't be friends until after Marten gets over the breakup himself.
Up to a point. There are respects in which I have never got over the breakup of my marriage twenty years ago. But I am friends of a sort with my ex. My present wife and I sometimes have her to dinner, and sometimes go there, and we meet at concerts and so on - but we don't hang out more than that. You may simply be calling that state "not friends", whereas I am calling it "friends - up to a point". And the point is that we got together enough to learn to be civil to each other again, and to express our care for how the other is doing - because that is still there, even though we couldn't live together any more. When I had a heart attack, she visited me; when she had a hip replacement I visited her.
Which isn't going to happen as long as he's moping around about it.
And now he has a chance to move out of that state.
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For comic #1964...
1. Pretty well done strip on Jeph's part for an un-scripted strip, I thought.
2. Is Marigold blushing at the thought of dancing with Marten and Hanners, or just having to dance again? It is difficult to tell with the wide-shot, so it is hard to see her eyes' angle, whether she is eyeing Hanners &/or Marten. Though I like Marigold's stance in the wide-shot. Also, has Marigold's hair gotten longer...?
3. I find it interesting (and cute, of course :angel: ) that Hannelore is comfortable enough to ask Marten to dance with her and Marigold. I would have thought dancing be something that would set off her kind of OCD (though really Hanners' problem in that area has been greatly reduced in the 1500+ strips since her Marten-stalker introduction).
4. It took me a while to figure out that Marigold's cut-off remark was in-tandem with the dust trail of the rest of the gang fleeing the perceived drama-bomb blast radius. However, Dora's face and posture makes me think this will be a positive mending conversation between Dora & Marten. Likewise, both of them are at the emotional point to be able to talk to each other now.
5. I was amused by Marten's shocked reaction of crushing his beer can at the surprise sight of Dora :-) . Still, we the audience generally know that Marten is ready to talk to Dora again, he has been for a while now.
6. For Andy147... Number 1839: Question is Complete (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1839) is what you wanted, I believe. And as I have stated before: If you have a strong &/or solid sense of relief from breaking up, then it probably means you made the correct, if not "right," decision regardless of any guilt &/or emotional hurt.
7. I will wait for Friday's strip #1965 before placing any thread bets, myself 8-) .
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It just occurred to me - why are there no students/other townies on the porch? Little weird that it's just them.
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Ninja probably didn't wear cocktail dresses, either.
Maybe they should have. :wink:
So I haven't had my coffee and am thus not awake enough to scrub through the entire thread, but did anybody else enjoy the subtle artwork of Marten crushing/crumpling the can in surprise? I like it when Jeph throws in those little artistic easter eggs.
Agreed -- I liked that too. Plus the panel four dustcloud as the gang disappears through the door. :-D And the backgrounds and groupshot in panel one all look great. We rarely see the cast from that distance, and the group's dynamics are very well represented in their body postures and spacing. It's almost a left-to-right sad-to-happy rainbow as well.
This in particular is also why I don't think they should try to be friends. If Dora were to say she wanted to get back together, Marten would jump at the chance and that is why they need to not be friends until Marten makes some progress of his own with regard to moving on (or at least stops moping and sighing about it).
Bolding mine. It's good to see you concede that there can be exceptions to the 'exes can't be friends' gospel you've been preaching -- different things work for different people. Being able to be friends with an ex depends on how the break-up happened, but it also depends on the maturity levels of those breaking up (chronological age isn't always a good indicator of emotional maturity). Not all break-ups HAVE to end with both parties becoming friends, but not all break-ups HAVE to end with both parties NOT being friends. There's a whole spectrum of possibilities. About your specific hypothetical scenario above, I'm not sure Marten would jump at the chance. He may not have initiated or wanted the break-up, but if Dora tried to move a renewed friendship back to a romantic involvement, I doubt he would see her behavior as anything but desperation for affection and would gently turn her down. Might be a different story if he was drunk, but people make all sorts of stupid decisions then anyway.
Not sure why caterwauling has been predicted for the forums, but I guess it doesn't take much, and we still have tomorrow's comic to go. (Cue Marten and Dora waking up together. :roll: )
Dora's face and posture makes me think this will be a positive mending conversation between Dora & Marten. Likewise, both of them are at the emotional point to be able to talk to each other now.
I agree. Despite Marten's surprise at seeing her, I think they should be able to talk some things out. We'll see, though.
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Agreed -- I liked that too. Plus the panel four dustcloud as the gang disappears through the door. :-D
When I saw that I imagined hearing that bullet-ricochet-y sound effect from old cartoons when a character sprints off suddenly.
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Not sure why caterwauling has been predicted for the forums, but I guess it doesn't take much, and we still have tomorrow's comic to go.
Presumably Jeph simply doesn't trust the forum to behave better in times of drama than it has at various times over the last few years.
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And that may be why this occurred on a Thursday as opposed to a Friday...
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I think there are 3 possible outcomings (and views in the forum) in the long run.
1. both should work on their issued and try it again later (~20-30%)
2. both shouldn't meet ever again (~5-10%)
3. both should stop to act like angstfilled emo-teenagers and start talking to each other again, returning to a at least acquiantance like status again (60-75%)
with some grey areas between.
Me, It's a tie between 1 and 3 with a little bit more to the 1. (yeah to much romantic for that cruel world^^)
Isn't there a small difference between breakup because of fading romantic feelings (which didn't occur. If that were the case, at least one of them should be better by now?) and personal problems that couldn't be solved while the trigger for that problems still around.
On the one side Doras trust issues AND total ignorance to the wishes of others? On the other side Martens manatee like approach to life and total unawareness of some social behaviours not normal outside of a social circle of pro-pron and fetish models. Maybe he managed to ignore the implications when you hug someone almost nude to the waist down (in that case BOTH of em). Maybe, just maybe. Outside the californian porn business that's not a normal friendly behaviour^^. Yeah prude, I know.
And Martens "problems" could be solved more easily. Go back to california to that "actresses" (right spelled?) or some motivation and social behaviour classes.
instructor: ok, see outside you little hippie state on the western coast that is not something a girlfriend has to understand, sonny.
Marten: oh now i see: women doing it is ok (even if one got the hots for the other), while men doing the same is badbad.)
Doras problems... maybe seeing a shrink is for the best. If she couldn't learn since emo-teenager stage that not everyone is out there to take advantage of her (boyfriends) or get her to fix them up with her brother (female friends, and grils she got the hots for, bisexuallity doesn't look like double the fun, more like quadruble the drama). The date with Jim seemed to give her the kick in the right direction.
Still thinking that Jim dodged a bullet there.
Come to think, doesn't the regime of Martens mother over him, show that he'll need someone to give him that special kind of kick to grow or to act?
There are some guys around who are gifted in one way or another but cannot achieve something without someone standing behind them. Supporting, encouranging and to some point, yeah kicking their butts. NOT that nagging bitch kind, where the man just works to be out of the house, hate to work with those guys.
@Heliphyneau
apart from that makeout dances some of the girls did there wasn't much touching in the last in door strip. maybe she got past of some of her ocd triggers
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Mr. Presley would like to have a word with you.
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5402/10elvis1.jpg)
Would that be "Thank you, thank you very much."?
Alright, Zombie King is probably going to kick my butt for that, just so long as Mr. Hooker doesn't get mad if I try to play "One Bourbon, One Scotch and One Beer" on the harp.
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<whole post containing direct insults to Jeph removed by moderator>
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So how about that weather ... I mean one day it's warmer than the day before, what's up with that ... also, magnets, how do they work?
Concerning Elvis, I'm more of a Johnny Cash man myself.
And to contribute something to the comic: Major funny when everyone except Marty just up and bolted when they saw Dora approaching.
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So how about that weather ... I mean one day it's warmer than the day before, what's up with that ... also, magnets, how do they work?
Concerning Elvis, I'm more of a Johnny Cash man myself.
And to contribute something to the comic: Major funny when everyone except Marty just up and bolted when they saw Dora approaching.
those bitches need some smashing (some friends they are). mr cash and mr presley would approve!
@ChibiSoma
limp-dick Marten: bad one, someone on the ground, still needs a kick in the groin, eh?
Bitch From Beyond Time : good one
It's not like the book of drama holds so much. Simple math problem, you got a fixed number of scenarious to start, some key points in the plot (maybe 5 stages) where every one unfolds a treee of another 5 stages and so on. and a fixed number of endings to the story line. In the thousands of years of humanity Every possible way of that plan has been processed several times (and since the introduction of crappy romance porn for housewives even more).
And guess what, those with the happy ending get more readers than those ending with the lovers killing each other (ok romeo & juliette and othello put aside ^^)
It's nice to know that even romantic writers could use help from a process analyist these days ^^.
Personally I don't think that there are more than maybe 5k possible combinations of plotpoints.
nowadays it seems not to be an art to unfold a storyline but to make it appear special and original despite beeing combination #2335. It's the same with music, one of the most liked (not indy or hipster worthy) songs in the last year in Germany was Hurtz - Wonderful life. How many time has this scenario been used in music? or that whiny crap about how someone could be glad to have that one special person who is to good form him (yeah him, thats a musical concept normally written only from a male perspective^^)
I don't accuse every artist as an ripp-off, it's just pure statistic.
huh? wtf does Emoticontraindication mean anyways?
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@ChibiSoma: You are the exact reason I stayed away from the forums for the last couple of days. I knew at least one person would be upset with how things were going on and would put me in a bad enough mood to say something stupid and get banned for it. Now I understand why Jeph avoids the forums like a bad disease; people like you would drive me insane if I was in Jeph's position.
@michael28: Don't bother reading too much into forum titles. It makes your head hurt less.
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What? The thread will get locked because you did a poll? Because people will disagree about a silly, speculative game? The moderators would seriously close the weekly discussion thread over such a thing? Has this happened before?
YES.
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Eh? When? Not on my watch, surely?
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@michael28: Don't bother reading too much into forum titles. It makes your head hurt less.
Just what a Furry Furrier would say!
Wait, there's a style of speaking you have to follow when you reach a certain title? Why was I not informed about this?
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those bitches need some smashing (some friends they are). mr cash and mr presley would approve!
I doubt that, but the internet is so rarely a place for reasoned debate.
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those bitches need some smashing (some friends they are). mr cash and mr presley would approve!
I doubt that, but the internet is so rarely a place for reasoned debate.
Can we officially declare the day the Internet becomes a place for a reasoned debate to be a sign of one of the Four Horsemen?
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I can see where you are coming from here but on balance I think sooner rather than later is better. Marten already tried to return to COD so he has prepared himself for the meeting at least once. He also knew Dora was on a date and is sitting outside at a party, probably brooding about the whole thing. Better to have things unexpectedly move forward for real than spend all evening getting drunker wondering how the date is going.
That's a good point. I suppose there's no actual GOOD way for Dora to approach Marten. Whatever she does is likely to be sudden and difficult, because Marten's emotions are still pretty raw.
I was thinking about it, and I think the reason it bothers me is that it almost seems insensitive - "I was out on a date, and I stopped by to see how you're doing after I left you,", and it sort of rubs in the whole I'm-over-you feeling? Not that Dora is totally responsible for Marten's feelings or anything like that - if he never moves on, it's not like she should never date or never let him know that she's moved on. It's sort of an amorphous uncomfortableness with it, but overall, like you said, he might have been focusing on how the date was anyway, and it's good for them to talk.
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I can see where you are coming from here but on balance I think sooner rather than later is better. Marten already tried to return to COD so he has prepared himself for the meeting at least once. He also knew Dora was on a date and is sitting outside at a party, probably brooding about the whole thing. Better to have things unexpectedly move forward for real than spend all evening getting drunker wondering how the date is going.
That's a good point. I suppose there's no actual GOOD way for Dora to approach Marten. Whatever she does is likely to be sudden and difficult, because Marten's emotions are still pretty raw.
I was thinking about it, and I think the reason it bothers me is that it almost seems insensitive - "I was out on a date, and I stopped by to see how you're doing after I left you,", and it sort of rubs in the whole I'm-over-you feeling? Not that Dora is totally responsible for Marten's feelings or anything like that - if he never moves on, it's not like she should never date or never let him know that she's moved on. It's sort of an amorphous uncomfortableness with it, but overall, like you said, he might have been focusing on how the date was anyway, and it's good for them to talk.
would be if the date wasn't a dasaster, date-wise.
emotional-wise, and cluebat-wise, it was something like a artillery barriage.
man, i can't wait to see how that story unfolds.
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Make-up makeout Monday?
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Make-up makeout Monday?
Marten murder Monday!
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I was thinking about it, and I think the reason it bothers me is that it almost seems insensitive - "I was out on a date, and I stopped by to see how you're doing after I left you,", and it sort of rubs in the whole I'm-over-you feeling? Not that Dora is totally responsible for Marten's feelings or anything like that - if he never moves on, it's not like she should never date or never let him know that she's moved on. It's sort of an amorphous uncomfortableness with it, but overall, like you said, he might have been focusing on how the date was anyway, and it's good for them to talk.
I think that the reason she picked specifically now is that during the date she came to the realization that she shouldn't be dating anyone yet because her emotions were too messed up, and the first step to getting her emotional state back in order would be to have a talk with Marten.
Sure, when you put it like that it sounds kind of insensitive, but she probably wanted to get the talk done now, while it's still fresh in her mind, so that we don't have repeats of psyching oneself up to talk while the other person is busy.
Wile E Coyote's impersonation, by the whole gang, on panel 4 had me giggling.
Thankyou. It was seriously bugging me that I didn't know what that was.
You're right, it's hilarious now that I look at it properly. :lol:
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Dora may not even have come specifically to see Marten; she was invited to this party, remember (and Marten knows that). When her date fizzled out (in a gentle way), she found she had time to go. She would presumably have expected Marten to be there, but meeting him alone outside may be as much a surprise to her as to him.
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That's true too. Nonetheless, she would have been mentally preparing herself for this kind of one-on-one conversation anyway, because even if she had seen Marten at the party, it would have been what they really needed before they could get on and enjoy it.
Comic: Oh, damn. Not cool, guys, not cool. Just...wow. Faye sees Dora coming, absconds with any possible defenses Marten can leverage, and utterly abandons her friend to a confrontation he is not mentally prepared to handle? And she's ignoring he's been drinking too? Probably no more than a couple beers, but alcohol's effect is insidious.
The word I don't like here is 'defenses', because it sounds like Dora's going to be attacking Marten on some level, and that wouldn't happen unless both of them were super-drunk. Neither of them look particularly drunk (remember Jeph's fondness for drawing bubbles around their heads when they are), and what I think Dora wants to do is just have a nice gentle reconciliation where they work out their differences and go back to being friends.
Neither of them needs to be attacking the other, and neither of them wants to be attacking the other.
EDIT: My prediction for Friday is that we get at least one panel from the perspective of the people inside (especially Faye). Either the last panel, or everything BUT the last panel depending on how cruel Jeph wants to be.
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I loved the visual story-telling in 1964, with the decompressed passage in middle, sandwiched between the establishing and closing panels. I'm surprised Marten wasn't sucked back through the door by the vacuum left by his friends' exit. :-D
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As much as I want everything to work out and be all happy-happy for these two, I do think that this is going to end badly. I don't mean 'badly' in the sense that they're about to enact a COPS episode on the lawn, but in the sense that a return to comfort will inhibit some of the growth they both need to do, partially because this is, to a certain extent, another repeat of what's wrong with their relationship in the first place: Dora's taking the initiative because she really cares about him, allowing him to just passively accept, rather than taking action himself.
As much as people are calling Dora's fears "paranoia," she has a point: Marten never chose her. He waited until Faye told him it wasn't going to happen and even then he never asked Dora out; he waited for her to ask him out, he waited for her to kiss him, and he started dating her when she basically said "okay, we're dating now." When she asked him about moving in together, he rejected it on the grounds that he didn't want to move—so she moved for him... into the apartment he shared... with the girl he had a mad crush on... and who played a role in his choice not to move in the first place. Kind of hard to imagine how that would set off her worries about not being good enough, isn’t it?
Marten doesn't know what he wants from life yet, and, of course, that's not a crime—again, I'm sure most of us know what that's like. Hell, I’m two weeks shy of thirty-one, and I’m still figuring it out—but, from his behaviour, it does seem that he doesn’t even really want Dora; he’s just comfortable with her. Dora wants (and, like anyone, deserves) to be wanted her partner. She isn’t needy—she just wants to be desired (as opposed to a consolation prize), and that’s perfectly reasonable. Her perspective on this seems to be that, even though he was a generally good boyfriend, he never made her feel like she was a choice that he had made—she was just another comfortable situation into which he happened to blunder. It was a damn good situation, and I think he understood that, but—especially with the moving in together nonsense, when he had a chance to show her that he really wanted her and not just to maintain the status quo—he never took any action to indicate that it was a life he would choose if there were another option.
Sigh. I’m trying to explain what I feel is a very fine distinction, and I don’t feel like I’m doing it justice. Still, rather than blathering for another dozen paragraphs trying to narrow it down more, I’ll leave it there and hope that you understand.
Still, to bring it back around to my initial point, they both need to take this opportunity to grow, and that’s not going to happen if they slip back into their comfort zone, even just as friends. Marten’s growth, especially, being the status-quo-seeker that he is, is at risk if that happens.
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OK, so I made a poll for the end of the week.
Thank you. I just didn't want to do it where it would inhale voluminously.
A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.
TLDR other replies, but this one's pretty simple:
Theirs wasn't a volatile breakup.
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Once again you have made a fantastic post with some good points.
BUT I don't think that having this discussion is going to prevent their character growth, since Faye (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1912) and Steve (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1862) have both expressed their distaste for how hung up on Dora Marten is. I don't think he can develop further as a character until he can get over her, and that's what I'm hoping he will be able to do as a result of the next few strips.
Going back to "just friends" isn't necessarily the same as going nowhere, since if that is how they decide to handle things, then this will show that they have realized that they are not good for each other as a couple. There are other aspects too, like how Marten has seemingly been taking the break-up a lot harder than Dora. That is a fairly good indication that he did care about her. And Dora isn't the first one to have taken the initiative in this instance; Marten was actually the first one to try and make this conversation happen (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1907), he was just unlucky.
And you're right in that Dora has a point, but she did bring it on herself a little bit by getting together with Marten all of two days after the talk at 500. I can't exactly blame Marten for being a little confused about what he wanted at that point, and Dora should have handled it better by taking things slower and not, say, following Raven's advice (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=536). And even then, that plan was actually "get Marten to come to you", and when Marten didn't really follow through with his side of the plan, she started being more overt when what she probably should have done was back off and play it safe for... oh, I don't know, more than two days? Enough time for it not to seem incredibly hurtful for Faye.
I also think that it was Dora who didn't handle the moving situation correctly. Sure, Marten MIGHT not want to move because he still has feelings for Faye, but give him more than a minute to think about it. If he moves out Faye is going to be stuck there all on her own, and that might not be something he wants to do. I'm reminded of the rule that Meena laid out (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=894), only instead of leaving her homeless, he would have been leaving her with double the rent. I think the same principle still applies though.
-EDIT: I also don't blame Marten for initially thinking that she was talking about her moving in with him and Faye, since to me, that does make a lot more sense. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1577)
Although I've just noticed something in this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1580) comic, as I was looking for examples of how Dora handled the moving out thing. She does say "he'll probably just go along with what I decide, whether he's really happy about it or not", so you're definitely on to something there.
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*Cue dramatic Violin note*
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*Cue dramatic Violin note*
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/KashTheKwik/marrtteennreeedd.png)
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In regards to today's comic:
NO.
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As much as I want everything to work out and be all happy-happy for these two, I do think that this is going to end badly. I don't mean 'badly' in the sense that they're about to enact a COPS episode on the lawn, but in the sense that a return to comfort will inhibit some of the growth they both need to do, partially because this is, to a certain extent, another repeat of what's wrong with their relationship in the first place: Dora's taking the initiative because she really cares about him, allowing him to just passively accept, rather than taking action himself.
(snip: lots of good points)
I agree with everything you've said, except that I don't think that them having a conversation necessarily implies that they will return to a comfort that will inhibit growth. Even if they end up becoming friends again. On the contrary, I think that having a conversation about what happened could well facilitate both of them learning something about themselves and the ended relationship out of the whole thing, which may not have happened if they'd never discussed it again. They are no more likely to return to a comfort zone by never discussing it than by discussing it.
If the conversation just amounts to "let's be friends again" then in that case I'll grant you your point.
Maybe we should wait until we see what Dora has to say for herself before we pass judgement on her actions here (that last comment applies generally to recent discussion, not just to the post to which I'm replying)? Just a thought.
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Comic: Oh, damn. Not cool, guys, not cool. Just...wow. Faye sees Dora coming, absconds with any possible defenses Marten can leverage, and utterly abandons her friend to a confrontation he is not mentally prepared to handle?
Because they should all crowd around and gawk while Dora and Marten try to talk things out? Even if he isn't prepared, I doubt their presence would help that.
Concerning Elvis, I'm more of a Johnny Cash man myself.
Speaking of Mr. Cash, http://www.nme.com/news/nme/57784 (http://www.nme.com/news/nme/57784)
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A) I know they're not going to get back together because Dora said she shouldn't be dating anybody right now. I have to keep telling myself that.
B) Did anybody else literally shout "AWWWWWW HERE IT GOES!" when they saw that last panel? Just me? Okay.
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Once again you have made a fantastic post with some good points.
BUT I don't think that having this discussion is going to prevent their character growth, since Faye (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1912) and Steve (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1862) have both expressed their distaste for how hung up on Dora Marten is. I don't think he can develop further as a character until he can get over her, and that's what I'm hoping he will be able to do as a result of the next few strips.
You're right… but my point is that the discussion needs to happen, and Marten doesn't have a history of discussing. He lets others talk, puts up a momentary resistance, if any, and then gives in. To return to your earlier response to my earlier post, the fight over Cosette asking him out is a perfect example: that fight lasted the course of a single strip, and Dora was wrong. She was completely overreacting to nothing (due to her own issues), but Marten didn't bother standing up for himself; he went with the path of least resistance, which was just letting her win (which obviously bothered him enough that he kept trying to turn every fight thereafter into that fight again).
If this meeting results in a discussion—and I have enough faith in both the characters and Jeph's writing to believe that it will—that's a step in the right direction; if, on the other hand, the discussion is Dora saying she’s sorry and asking if they can be friends, then, to a certain extent, Marten’s development as a character will be put off.
Not that that’s a terrible thing; if Marten suddenly becomes Mr. Motivated, that’s the end of the strip, at least as we know and love it. His quest is to grow up—that takes time, and the longer it takes, the more wacky hijinx we get to enjoy. Also, this isn’t a movie, where everything needs to wrap up nicely and Daredevil takes down the most powerful criminal in the world after an hour and a friggin’ half (seriously, I’m the only person on Earth who actually likes that movie, but even I have to admit that that was just a stupid move from the writers); it’s a comic strip that (hopefully) has a long, long time left in it for Marten to find his way.
I actually felt a little silly, after rereading my last post, for how life-and-death I made it sound; really, I was just looking for a way to frame some further exploration of the characters and, hopefully, demonstrate that insisting that one character is all right and the other is all wrong isn’t useful or interesting.
Thanks for bringing up Marten’s own attempt to see Dora—I left it out of my post because I probably would have done another three paragraphs on it and I was already way long (as you can tell, I tend to be verbose). Basically, I think that that was a very important point for Marten and the storyline; it wasn’t as powerful as it would have been had it been successful, though, and that’s why, even though I love the way today’s strip plays (because Jeph is awesome), I think this is still something of a repeat of the mistakes the characters have already made (which, really, is just more awesome writing from Jeph. Personal weaknesses are insidious that way—if there’s a way they can convince you that you’re moving ahead while you’re still actually doing exactly what you always do, they will).
Your point about Dora always moving too fast—both in asking Marten out and when they moved in together also applies here. As much as she wants to fix things now, it would have been helpful to both her and Marten if she’d also realized that she had to let him make the first move. She needs to learn to ease off a bit, and he needs to engage more.
I’m way long again but I do want to say one thing more: I side with Dora on not wanting to move into a dorm-like situation partially because I’m out of that phase, and I can understand her wanting to start a life that is more about her and Marten as a couple than it is about them as two people who happen to be dating in a larger circle of friends. Also, I speak from experience when I say that, while it’s fun having your friends around all the time, when their jackassery gets to the point that they’re baked 24/7 and keeping a bucket of vomit fermenting in the basement for a month just to see what will happen, you start to really appreciate living alone.
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Sorry for bringing down the tone, but I just imagined a conversation:
Dora: ... and so, you see, you are simply too passive.
Marten: Yes, you are right.
Dora: No wait... see, you're ...
Marten: What?
Dora: You're being passive again.
Marten: I'm ... yes, I see.
Dora: Oh, come on.
Marten: Ok. Fine. No, I am not simply too passive.
Dora: Yes you are! How can you deny it now?!
Marten: omg
Anyway, carry on.
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Hi, this is my first post. I'm french so please bear with my accent. I've been reading the comic for years, and I'd like to attract your attention to the epicness of Number 1964. It looks like the end of an era, a cinematographic experience.
It begins as a pause in the narration, these few friends are taking a break from their usual adventures and just chilling on a porch. The first few lines of dialogue don't even matter, but their sudden absence allows a mysterious tension to build up, starting at panel 2, where we can see Marten gazing at nothing, apparently tired from unresolved issues with Dora and/or coffee. The silence wakes him up. They're just... gone. Behold the perspective in panel 4. All you can hear now are the grasshopers and the far thump of the bass, and even they fade away in pannel 5. Dora breaks the silence with 3 simple letters, "Hey".
They're just not kids anymore. Either that is epic or I'm too stoned and misreading between the lines.
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I am quite curious as to where this will go. I am not sure if it will be painful, cathartic, or just schadenfreude enducing, but I am curious to see regardless.
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"Spoiler" from Jeph's Twitter:
(Tonight on QC)
Dora: Martin...would it be too soon...for me to date...your mom? And also Tai?
Lol.
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Hi, this is my first post. I'm french so please bear with my accent. I've been reading the comic for years, and I'd like to attract your attention to the epicness of Number 1964. It looks like the end of an era, a cinematographic experience.
It begins as a pause in the narration, these few friends are taking a break from their usual adventures and just chilling on a porch. The first few lines of dialogue don't even matter, but their sudden absence allows a mysterious tension to build up, starting at panel 2, where we can see Marten gazing at nothing, apparently tired from unresolved issues with Dora and/or coffee. The silence wakes him up. They're just... gone. Behold the perspective in panel 4. All you can hear now are the grasshopers and the far thump of the bass, and even they fade away in pannel 5. Dora breaks the silence with 3 simple letters, "Hey".
They're just not kids anymore. Either that is epic or I'm too stoned and misreading between the lines.
Bienvenue sur le forum, nouvelle personne!*
If it makes you feel any better, while your written English is impecable, I couldn't help reading it with a thick southern accent.
*Translation to the French by Google. And I forget, does French use those wierd upside-down exclamation points like Spanish?
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Wow. Some people have some seriously confrontational lives.
I look at the panel and I see a classic romantic-comedy moment when the two characters finally act like grown-ups and have a adult conversation. They won't be getting back together, but it may get to the point where Marten can return to the Coffee of Doom and everyone can be comfortable in a group again.
Also, Marigold's junk-trunk is looking kinda nice in panel one. :wink:
From a story telling perspective, this turn of events will free Marten's character to spend time with Hanner's and Marigold. He seems to act like a catalyst helping other people move forward in their lives. I'm not looking for anything romantic, but I'd like to some time spent with those two.
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INSTANTLY PLAYED IN MY HEAD IN THAT LAST PANEL.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQGGQ-FCe_w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQGGQ-FCe_w)
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Hi, this is my first post. I'm french so please bear with my accent. I've been reading the comic for years, and I'd like to attract your attention to the epicness of Number 1964. It looks like the end of an era, a cinematographic experience.
Vous avez raison. I was trying to figure out why this comic looked particularly nice. And now I realise that, yes, it is cinematic. It's certainly distinctive.
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It's not like Marten could have done anything right in the situation after Faye confessed why she has her issues. If he would be the first to move justs days after it, the outcome we have now would be the same. Maybe it would have happened earlier since Dora couldn't be sure either, if she was only second best. Something that always nagged on her from the beginning. I think Marten did the right thing not to try to get the moves on the next girl available.
It took Dora 3 days to make the moves, the pace of the strip makes it appear a longer time period, but both of them should have waited for a longer time. It's not like another month or 2 would have killed one of them.
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Oh dude. This is so damn good. This is the best the comic has been in a while. I'm practically jizzing.
fuck.
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This could be an epic comic tonight.
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Sorry for bringing down the tone, but I just imagined a conversation:
Dora: ... and so, you see, you are simply too passive.
Marten: Yes, you are right.
Dora: No wait... see, you're ...
Marten: What?
Dora: You're being passive again.
Marten: I'm ... yes, I see.
Dora: Oh, come on.
Marten: Ok. Fine. No, I am not simply too passive.
Dora: Yes you are! How can you deny it now?!
Marten: omg
Anyway, carry on.
and the eternal truth reveals itself before Marten: As a Man you cannot do it right!
(Tonight on QC) Dora: Marten...would it be too soon...for me to date...your mom? And also Tai?'
hehe, good one. Possible answer: Hell could be freezing it over and it would be to soon for you dating my mom ^^.
yesterdays comic needed a fifth panel.
Marten turning backwards (yelling): SOME FRIENDS YOU ARE!
I do hope they don't have that conversation on the porch, while the bunch of people that surrounds them usual presses their ears on the door.
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In before the forum explodes from wild mass asspull speculation of what will happen next week.
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In before the forum explodes from wild mass asspull speculation of what will happen next week.
A bit late.. well, you've beaten the "wild" part.
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Not surprised to see that Marten was out on the porch brooding instead of inside enjoying the party, I kinda figured he would be. Hopefully the impending conversation with Dora will help clear some of the air between them. Assuming they can get past monosyllables and short phrases...
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Not surprised to see that Marten was out on the porch brooding instead of inside enjoying the party, I kinda figured he would be.
You're assuming he was brooding.
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He was probably getting sick of being hit on by the guy in the pink angel wings T-shirt.
COMIC!
And I completely agree with Faye.
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So far, so good... more to come, I guess.
Some people may find the lack of drama frustrating, though!
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Boy, at this rate, they could, like, end up as friends again!
:psyduck:
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Hahahha the last panel really is the kicker :roll:
Also: Yeah, that´s how things sometimes work out. All drama-less and boring :-)
So it goes..
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This is the first time in a long time where I actually stayed up and wanted to see the end result. I think he did it just right.
(applause)
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Also: Yeah, that´s how things sometimes work out. All drama-less and boring :-)
I refuse to believe that! Also, anyone else notice that he finally had text in the commentary box? Other than Freedom Day, it's been blank all week.
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Moment of the week:
When Dora met Marten (again)
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Nice characterization on Hannelore and the Pugnacious Peach.
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Hannelore and Faye divide the forum between them; there is no third.
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Hannelore and Faye divide the forum between them; there is no third.
WE HAVE RAVEN BACK !!!!!!!!!!!! :-D
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I like this, that Dora and Marten can just talk without anger or recriminations, and only minimal awkwardness. I also like that Jeph didn't just wrap this up in one strip either, it needs at least one more. Looking forward to Monday!
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My prediction for Friday is that we get at least one panel from the perspective of the people inside (especially Faye). Either the last panel, or everything BUT the last panel depending on how cruel Jeph wants to be.
Called it! :lol:
At least Dora and Marten seem to be talking to each other with smiles on their faces, that's a considerable relief. If they're going to start mending bridges, starting with small talk is as good a way as any I suppose.
And if I was in Hannelore's situation I'd probably be thinking exactly the same thing. :P
(9 new replies... woah)
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whats dora being so smug about. self-righteous b.
and marten back to a struttering jelly. self-deprecating ah.
nope. just no. :|
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Hannelore and Faye divide the forum between them; there is no third.
I would like them to half-kiss and half-get-back-together.
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This turned out almost exactly how I expected, down to the rest of the gang spying/eavesdropping from inside.
Now we know the real reason Faye cleared the porch when she saw Dora approaching, can't get good data if the subjects know their being observed. :evil:
I think they may even get back together eventually, but it's gonna take a loooooooong time to get there! :psyduck:
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But if they're both acting like mature adults, where is the drama and comedy going to come from?
Raven, of course :-)
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whats dora being so smug about. self-righteous b.
and marten back to a struttering jelly. self-deprecating ah.
nope. just no. :|
I don't actually see any evidence of Dora being smug, and I don't see any evidence of either of them stuttering to a particularly greater degree than the other. It's just a little awkward for them to make small talk after so much time of not having seen each other.
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Now all we need is a chainsaw wielding maniac to turn up at the party and the evening will be complete. Cue Pintsize.
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When Dora and Marten split up, it felt a bit like Jeph had painted himself into a corner. Well. Looks like the paint is nearly dry now. Is Angus giving Faye a disapproving look? Not that I could fault Faye (much) for peeking. The last panel is classic comic relief from Jeph (standing ovation).
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Disapproving Angus is disapproving. :-P
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Disapproving Angus is disapproving. :-P
I noticed that, it made me laugh.
*huggles Jeph* ohmygod cute strip! and suspenseful!
:psyduck:
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But if they're both acting like mature adults, where is the drama and comedy going to come from?
Raven, of course :-)
You didn't think it was a coincidence she suddenly came back, did you?
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This turned out almost exactly how I expected, down to the rest of the gang spying/eavesdropping from inside.
Now we know the real reason Faye cleared the porch when she saw Dora approaching, can't get good data if the subjects know their being observed. :evil:
I think they may even get back together eventually, but it's gonna take a loooooooong time to get there! :psyduck:
it took about 500 strips for them to get together, it lastet 1200 strips so what, so in the next 3,5 years of qc they get together again. *sigh*
but Faye is right, they would be at least entitled for some spanking... come to thing Martens mom could show up again. Maybe Faye can learn the finer art of discipline from her :evil:
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Disapproving Angus is disapproving. :-P
Ohmygod, I had to read the comic three times until I realized Angus was even there, but that look .. and that pose, I almost fell out of my chair, this is right up there with "ceiling River is watching you procreate".
Also I am anxiously awaiting the release of the drama bomb (in the comic, please not on the forums).
PS: I'm totally sounding like a Valley Girl right now, am I not ?
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The drama is that there is no drama.
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That's the worst kind of drama!!! :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
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That's the worst kind of drama!!! :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
I ... whoa, I ... :-o
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Now the question is if Angus disapproves of the threats of strangulation or of the watching.
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Marten: I heard you went on a date:
Dora: it was fun, but i think we're just gonna be friends.
Leaving out the juicey bits about why they're just gonna be friends, eh? Like I'm just too fucked up for a relationship again.
@Blackjocker,
if he'd lived with that crap the whole time like Faye did, he'd hold them while Faye does the other part.
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GOOD END 8D
Now quickly! Someone post a long rambling fucking manifesto about how much they hate this! Use a lot of really utterly unnecessary bad language too, maybe even invent some new cusses! Oooh, and throw in some really virulent misogyny. Not the run-of-the-mill, ignorable misogyny that usually happens, I mean the really strong stuff.
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Ah, you caught a read of the post I deleted, did you?
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GOOD END 8D
Now quickly! Someone post a long rambling fucking manifesto about how much they hate this! Use a lot of really utterly unnecessary bad language too, maybe even invent some new cusses! Oooh, and throw in some really virulent misogyny. Not the run-of-the-mill, ignorable misogyny that usually happens, I mean the really strong stuff.
It's been done - how about some misandry?
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GOOD END 8D
Now quickly! Someone post a long rambling fucking manifesto about how much they hate this! Use a lot of really utterly unnecessary bad language too, maybe even invent some new cusses! Oooh, and throw in some really virulent misogyny. Not the run-of-the-mill, ignorable misogyny that usually happens, I mean the really strong stuff.
It's been done - how about some misandry?
Oh thanks Dora, let's get Marten back into his routine of sitting around the coffee shop everyday. Part of the reason Marten has been so miserable is that he has no real hobbies when not working. Nope, just sitting around COD, watching his life drift away...
If I was Angus I'd be mad too. Faye's acting like an immature high schooler by sitting there spying on them. Grow up Faye...and ugh, stop threatening to hurt everyone. You're like a broken record.
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Angus looks more bewildered than angry. to me.
I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
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Ah, you caught a read of the post I deleted, did you?
I really can't tell whether you are joking here.
It's ok, don't tell me. It's better this way.
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Probably.
Me, I prefer this as a way to wrap this part up, now we get to see more of the party. And as for drama - what are the robots up to now? All the humans are away, and with the exception of Winslow, all are capable of causing mayhem...
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Probably.
Me, I prefer this as a way to wrap this part up, now we get to see more of the party. And as for drama - what are the robots up to now? All the humans are away, and with the exception of Winslow, all are capable of causing mayhem...
I don't think Winslow is that innocent. He is a apple product and has ibrows
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I'm content. This ending when down just as I was hoping. Even the spying by Faye.
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I'm just waiting for Tiogyr's post reacting to this. I even have the IRL popcorn ready. I don't agree with the exact shape of his thoughts, but I suspect many of the sentiments may be shared at this comic.
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Angus isn't being disapproving, he's just got a sort of curious look on his face. Like, he cares to know what's going on, but he's not totally into it. If that makes any sense.
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If they end up getting back together, that's me and this comic finished for sure. I've got zero patience for that relationship, they aren't even remotely a match. I'd be glad to see them be friends again though. I'm just saying, their breakup nearly ruined (excess ANGST) the comic, and I'm now not interested in the potential for any more EPIC ANGST. While not all comics are funny books, this one kind of is, and.... when they are involved it tends NOT to be.
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sorry to disappoint you Hanners but I dont think they'll end up back together.
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I'd be inclined to agree with Faye. They'd both need to be strangled.
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Is Angus giving Faye a disapproving look?
He's angry Faye's gonna do the punching to Dora and Marten than him. Sucker is a masochist.
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I'm just waiting for Tiogyr's post reacting to this. I even have the IRL popcorn ready. I don't agree with the exact shape of his thoughts, but I suspect many of the sentiments may be shared at this comic.
I honestly can't think of a polite way to phrase how bored I am by this point, actually.
As for Angus, I think he may be aggravated because Faye is supposed to be on a date with him at that party, not ignoring having a good time just because her roommate and his ex are having a chat on the lawn.
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It reminds me of the phrase:
"if you love something, you have to let it fly away. If it was meant to be, it'll come back."
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I honestly can't think of a polite way to phrase how bored I am by this point, actually.
Quick question. How many of your relationships have ended with these keyphrases being used? "Fuck you!" "I hope I never see your face again!" or the classic sentence thats made up entirely of swearwords. Just because the relationship ends doesn't mean you can't be friends. There was obviously something about a person that someone liked enough to go out with them, if they broke up in amicable circumstances that something shouldn't have changed. The only times I can think of where a person really wouldn't speak to someone ever again after a break up is if they move away, if they stole from them...repeatedly, or if the relationship was really that toxic. Otherwise, whats the point of ever getting to know someone?
As for Angus, I think he may be aggravated because Faye is supposed to be on a date with him at that party, not ignoring having a good time just because her roommate and his ex are having a chat on the lawn.
The look seems to be more of a "Errr, you're kneeling down to spy on your two best friends....How old are you? If my eyes could roll they would be."
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The only times I can think of where a person really wouldn't speak to someone ever again after a break up is if they move away, if they stole from them...repeatedly, or if the relationship was really that toxic. Otherwise, whats the point of ever getting to know someone?
Some people just don't do the "friends after a relationship" thing. I tried it more than once before and it only ended in a string of failed retries. That's about it for me.
By the way, Jeph, I love you (no homo).
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Some people just don't do the "friends after a relationship" thing. I tried it more than once before and it only ended in a string of failed retries. That's about it for me.
At least you tried. I've tried to forget about my exes. The worst break up I had we had this huge blowout at each other, screaming at each other for the whole night before we just walked away, I roared at her that I never want to see her face again (plenty of swears there). That was three years ago. Today, the pair of us went to a wildlife park. Wasn't a date, just two friends going out and having a nice walk for a couple of hours.
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I really want to draw special attention to the body language between Marten and Dora--it's brilliantly done, especially Dora's. Marten hangs in the exact same pose for four of six panels, while she shifts through five different ones. What's really interesting is that, understandably, most of the poses, from both of them, are classic "I'm feeling vulnerable and need to guard myself" poses.
Marten's covering his neck, which is a major vulnerable spot for humans, and one we instinctively cover when we're threatened. Dora keeps her arms crossed to different degrees, which degrees correspond to how vulnerable she feels in that panel. Then, in the last panel between the two of them, they both open up to each other--but not finally or permanently, since she's back in one of those poses in the last panel and we just can't see him (which, in itself, is something of a statement).
That's some absolutely brilliant visual subtext.
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It reminds me of the phrase:
"if you love something, you have to let it fly away. If it was meant to be, it'll come back."
where is that from?
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I tried it more than once before and it only ended in a string of failed retries.
I'd like to know more detailed reasons for said failed retries. Out of curiosity.
"if you love something, you have to let it fly away. If it was meant to be, it'll come back."
I know that phrase in German but without the second part/sentence. Which is actually very pretty.
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Nice art in the two recent strips. I also like the setting. Gives off a slightly different vibe.
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Well, this week ended on a moment a lot of people wanted to see. Let's hope something good comes out of it.
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When Dora and Marten split up, it felt a bit like Jeph had painted himself into a corner. Well. Looks like the paint is nearly dry now. Is Angus giving Faye a disapproving look? Not that I could fault Faye (much) for peeking. The last panel is classic comic relief from Jeph (standing ovation).
And Marigold is giving Hanners a funny look too. Not disaproving but more curious/suprised as if she does not understand what the fuss is or something.
Maybe its news to her that friends can get as would up with life drama as the main participents.
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I dont think its a disappointing look at marten and dora, looks more like he is thinking or pondering on the situation.
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I really want to draw special attention to the body language between Marten and Dora--it's brilliantly done, especially Dora's. Marten hangs in the exact same pose for four of six panels, while she shifts through five different ones. What's really interesting is that, understandably, most of the poses, from both of them, are classic "I'm feeling vulnerable and need to guard myself" poses.
Marten's covering his neck, which is a major vulnerable spot for humans, and one we instinctively cover when we're threatened. Dora keeps her arms crossed to different degrees, which degrees correspond to how vulnerable she feels in that panel. Then, in the last panel between the two of them, they both open up to each other--but not finally or permanently, since she's back in one of those poses in the last panel and we just can't see him (which, in itself, is something of a statement).
That's some absolutely brilliant visual subtext.
Your posts are always really insightful and interesting. Keep 'em coming!
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Angus looks more bewildered than angry. to me.
I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
Actually, I saw it that Angus and Marigold were looking at each other like, "What in the world is up with these two?"
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Yeah, I saw it as very accurately showing the various levels of interest each character had in the outcome of this conversation, which seems to also run along the same lines as the amount of time they've been friends. Faye, there from day 1, is watching intently, engrossed pretty much. Hannelore is still very interested, but can't bring herself to watch, so she relies on Faye to relay. Angus is curious, but doesn't seem like it would change his night too much one way or the other (except of course for the indirect effects via Faye), and finally Marigold who seems to not even be paying attention to the conversation, but more to the reactions of those around her, as if she's an anthropologist or something.
That kind of makes me wish there was a documentary (mockumentary?); an "anthropologist" giving a voiceover detailing the cultural habits and interactions of the subculture known as "hipster." It could easily be done poorly, but if done well I think it would be fantastic. Similar to the "How To Be Emo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGLv3IEL0VI)" video (in quality, not in style so much).
EDIT: After re-watching that video it's kind of creepy how many of those characteristics still apply to me. I guess that could explain why I still occasionally self-identify as an emo kid, despite how much I detest the way the genre has evolved (coincidentally, another aspect of the video that applies to me).
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hmmm....didn't notice Marigold much before but yeah she's got a similar look, only hers is more confusion. Angus and Marigold are kind of framing the situation actually, both by where they're standing and with their respective vaguely annoyed/confused looks. Gives perspective on Faye and Hannelore's actions, which are giving perspective on Marten and Dora's actions. It's like voyeurs within voyeurs, or as I like to call it, "spyception."
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Man.
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I demand next week's WCDT be titled "Moon Week".
That is all.
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I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
I really need to know if the whole world is weird or if it's just me: WHAT THE FUCK COULD HAPPEN RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD MAGICALLY MAKE MARTEN UNABLE TO VISIT THE SECRET BAKERY?
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I'm still waiting for the Tai moment. :-D
But will this see the Return Of The Marten to CoD?
And it is nice to see them talking to each other at last. It will be interesting to see were it goes form here.
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I honestly can't think of a polite way to phrase how bored I am by this point, actually.
Quick question. How many of your relationships have ended with these keyphrases being used? "Fuck you!" "I hope I never see your face again!" or the classic sentence thats made up entirely of swearwords.
None whatsoever (high school "relationships" don't count), at least on my part--I've got breaking up down to an art as far as it being a very simple "This isn't working for ______ reasons", giving them a hug or whatever if they handle it well/agree (most of the time the breakup is completely mutual) and we part ways.
The few where they acted that way toward me, though, I'd interrupt and say "Look, if you're not capable of talking to me like an adult, I'm not going to sit here and let you just rail at me like I'm a piece of shit. I'm better than that and I thought you were, too.", then I leave.
Life is just far too short to waste a single minute of it on people that don't give me the same level of respect and honesty I'm going to give them in a relationship (plus I'm too old to put up with bullshit drama or games in a relationship anymore).
Just because the relationship ends doesn't mean you can't be friends. There was obviously something about a person that someone liked enough to go out with them, if they broke up in amicable circumstances that something shouldn't have changed. The only times I can think of where a person really wouldn't speak to someone ever again after a break up is if they move away, if they stole from them...repeatedly, or if the relationship was really that toxic. Otherwise, whats the point of ever getting to know someone?
Just because the breakup was amicable doesn't mean you have to try to be friends, either, though. Most of mine have been with people I meet in/around the Atlanta area, though, so there is no shortage of people to form new relationships with (I could see this being a problem in really rural communities, maybe, but not a bustling city).
Even in the context of QC, I can't see it being rural enough to be a problem for either Marten or Dora unless they make it a problem. Not saying they can't be civil if they see each other in public, but at the same time they don't have to be buddy-buddy best friends again, either.
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Really? I don't remember being that impressed with her belittling skills.
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An excellent strip to end the week, with (as someone pointed out earlier in the thread) rather cinematic "camera-work".
I suppose it means that I'm an irredeemable nerd, but I was bothered by the lighting in the last panel. The shadows on Dora and Marten in the earlier panels suggest that the light-source illuminating them is the window behind Marten, through which Faye is peeping at the end. There is no indication of a bright street-lamp or anything. So how can Faye, inside a brightly lit room, looking through glass, see anything much beyond her own reflection? I know it's probably just an acceptable break from reality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AcceptableBreaksFromReality), but I found it really distracting.
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Really? I don't remember being that impressed with her belittling skills.
I think it's worth noting that we know next to nothing about her other than Angus' version of the story, which wasn't terribly in-depth anyway. It's also worth noting that part of the reason she's got a bad rep so early on may be because we've been led to project Faye's personality on her. Just sayin.
(http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1845)
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An excellent strip to end the week, with (as someone pointed out earlier in the thread) rather cinematic "camera-work".
I suppose it means that I'm an irredeemable nerd, but I was bothered by the lighting in the last panel. The shadows on Dora and Marten in the earlier panels suggest that the light-source illuminating them is the window behind Marten, through which Faye is peeping at the end. There is no indication of a bright street-lamp or anything. So how can Faye, inside a brightly lit room, looking through glass, see anything much beyond her own reflection? I know it's probably just an acceptable break from reality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AcceptableBreaksFromReality), but I found it really distracting.
Seems to me from these two strips like it isn't quite that dark outside just yet. And Faye is rather close to the glass, too. (then again, the camera is not...)
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I've got breaking up down to an art as far as it being a very simple "This isn't working for ______ reasons", giving them a hug or whatever if they handle it well/agree (most of the time the breakup is completely mutual) and we part ways.
If you break up often enough that you 'have it down to an art', I feel very sorry for you.
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Really? I don't remember being that impressed with her belittling skills.
I think it's worth noting that we know next to nothing about her other than Angus' version of the story, which wasn't terribly in-depth anyway. It's also worth noting that part of the reason she's got a bad rep so early on may be because we've been led to project Faye's personality on her. Just sayin.
(http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1845)
I know that some of the posters on here might not understand this, but Renee is a little foul-mouthed. Except for that very first scene of hers, any dialogue she's had in the strip has had at least one cuss word (definition: one of the seven words you can't say on TV, according to Mr. Carlin).
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The only time I remember her saying anything is that something was on fire or that she was bored at the bar. So...am I forgetting something?
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Really? I don't remember being that impressed with her belittling skills.
I think it's worth noting that we know next to nothing about her other than Angus' version of the story, which wasn't terribly in-depth anyway. It's also worth noting that part of the reason she's got a bad rep so early on may be because we've been led to project Faye's personality on her. Just sayin.
(http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1845)
I know that some of the posters on here might not understand this, but Renee is a little foul-mouthed. Except for that very first scene of hers, any dialogue she's had in the strip has had at least one cuss word (definition: one of the seven words you can't say on TV, according to Mr. Carlin).
You're right; that's terrible. The rest of the cast NEVER swears. /sarcasm
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I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
I really need to know if the whole world is weird or if it's just me: WHAT THE FUCK COULD HAPPEN RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD MAGICALLY MAKE MARTEN UNABLE TO VISIT THE SECRET BAKERY?
It's not that he'd be unable, but more "why bother?" I think. CoD has his social circle, access to tSB's baked delights, and (hopefully) now comes with less awkwardness.
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I've got breaking up down to an art as far as it being a very simple "This isn't working for ______ reasons", giving them a hug or whatever if they handle it well/agree (most of the time the breakup is completely mutual) and we part ways.
If you break up often enough that you 'have it down to an art', I feel very sorry for you.
Unless you are a hermit or irredeemably desperate, you're going to go through many, many breakups in your teens and twenties.
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You're right; that's terrible. The rest of the cast NEVER swears. /sarcasm
True that - however, the cussing-to-not-cussing ratio in her dialogue is incredibly high compared to the rest of the cast.
Observe:
No cussing:
- 1845 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1845) (First appearance)
Cussing:- 1867 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1867)
- 1868 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1868)
- 1942 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1942)
Granted, that's a small sample size (and the rest of her appearances have been her sleeping on the job), but still.
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I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
I really need to know if the whole world is weird or if it's just me: WHAT THE FUCK COULD HAPPEN RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD MAGICALLY MAKE MARTEN UNABLE TO VISIT THE SECRET BAKERY?
Because Marten is all about routine. He goes to work, goes to COD, goes to a bar, goes to bed. Rinse and repeat. The only changes in the routine are when his friends go somewhere. TSB was just a replacement for COD, but now he has COD back! Hooray! Now he can do his regular routine while being miserable that he's doing nothing with his life.
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Unless you are a hermit or irredeemably desperate, you're going to go through many, many breakups in your teens and twenties.
There really are quite a lot of points in between the three extremes you've just described, honestly. :psyduck:
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What Toya said. I'm nearing 24 and I've had, depending on how you define it, anywhere from zero to three breakups in my life. Anyway, if this has been brought up before, cool, but if not, does anyone see more of Penelope than Faye in Renee? And honestly, maybe it's because of Renee's short hair and piercings, but she looks more like a cross between Dora and Faye than just Faye.
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Unless you are a hermit or irredeemably desperate, you're going to go through many, many breakups in your teens and twenties.
I wouldn't usually take issue about your wording, because I'm fully aware my situation is somewhat hard to compare. But I feel necessary to point out that, as far as I know, you used simply the most offensive way to word this.
But since you seem to simply handle the One and Only Truth, you, on your side, won't have any problem being told you are telling it in the most dickish possible way.
In case I was unclear: I was willing to consider your arguments up to that post. Now my reaction is just "Fuck you, Tiogyr" until you're able to shake me out of considering you're just the base dick you're showing in that post.
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Anyway, if this has been brought up before, cool, but if not, does anyone see more of Penelope than Faye in Renee? And honestly, maybe it's because of Renee's short hair and piercings, but she looks more like a cross between Dora and Faye than just Faye.
I don't really see her as looking like any of those characters, to be honest. I certainly don't see any similarity with Faye. Tai, if anyone. I guess everyone will have a different idea depending on which feature they think is the most defining characteristic of each character.
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In case I was unclear: I was willing to consider your arguments up to that post. Now my reaction is just "Fuck you, Tiogyr" until you're able to shake me out of considering you're just the base dick you're showing in that post.
Take another look at how insultingly condescending the person I quoted was being before you get pissed at me for responding in kind.
I also explained myself pretty well in previous posts, so it was based on what I'd said before about dating in an urban area instead of bumfuck town where social options are significantly limited in comparison.
Also, I'm in a fair amount of pain after some minor surgery and inadequate painkillers, so I'm a little crankier than usual right now.
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Take another look at how insultingly condescending the person I quoted was being before you get pissed at me for responding in kind.
Okay, I see it more now. I'm not sure about how to object however.
I also explained myself pretty well in previous posts, so it was based on what I'd said before about dating in an urban area instead of bumfuck town where social options are significantly limited in comparison.
What is "urban area"? What is "bumfuck town"?
Also, I'm in a fair amount of pain after some minor surgery and inadequate painkillers, so I'm a little crankier than usual right now.
Ah. I will give you the benefit of the doubt then, instead of assuming the worst.
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Also, I'm in a fair amount of pain after some minor surgery and inadequate painkillers, so I'm a little crankier than usual right now.
Ouch. Sorry to hear it. I hope you recover quickly.
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I'd just like to say that I'm very glad we're at this point; where Marten and Dora are finally facing one another.
Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I've always seen QC as a story about Marten. Yes I enjoy the full cast, but ultimately the main story is about Marten, his life, and his evolution as a character. This is the second time now Marten has had to break up with a long-term girlfriend, and let's be fair here, that last one ended with a carton of milk in the face. What happens now with Dora: being friends, avoiding one another, or ultimately getting back together is going to further shape Marten's growth as a character. He's been stalled ever since the break up, so I find it satisfying that he's finally going to be forced to overcome this hurdle and move on.
More power to ye Jeph.
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I went back to the main page and checked Jeph's twitter compulsively to see if there were any updates, or another strip.
Then I remembered, oh wait, shit, tomorrow morning is Saturday.
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MODERATOR
Please remember that personal attacks are not tolerated here. You should instead counter the argument, or provide contrary evidence, for example, or simply step back from the discussion until it moves on.
Discussion of relationships inevitably touches on personal matters and experience. It helps to think of your own experience and that of others as examples illustrating different approaches to life - remember that your experience does not in any way invalidate that of others. So if you give details of your own experience, or that of others you know or know of, do it in a way that acknowledges that you are widening the range of possibilities rather than restricting it - otherwise you are likely to come over as arrogant, opinionated, or intolerant, which is when the unpleasantness starts.
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Tiogyr, a question: would you consider it some sign of weakness on Marten's part, were he to choose being buddy-buddy best friends with Dora again?
If not, I wonder if you might clarify why this development makes you "bored"; is it because it's too cliché? Or...? Others among you might also clarify why you felt the need to be hostile to someone for holding the viewpoint that it is okay to be friends after a breakup, but you don't have to be.
If so, also curious: is this because you feel Dora is somehow "at fault", or that she is a bad person?
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Unless you are a hermit or irredeemably desperate, you're going to go through many, many breakups in your teens and twenties.
Wow, what? Speak for you and the people you know, maybe, but in my circle that's just not true.
<moderator>post truncated to remove personal insults</moderator>
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(collar-tug).. I better just come back on Monday, I think.
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MODERATOR
Was my message above not clear? There are ways to discuss these matters diplomatically. Let me put it simply:
If the insults continue I will lock the thread.
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...and you know what, lemme say something I've been meaning to say for a while.
If there is one phenomenon that I cannot fucking stand on these forums, it is the Cult of Marten. We joke that we're all Jeph's personality cult, but this loses much of its humor when you see that there is a real personality cult here, and in it Jeph is but a minor saint. What's really fucking going on is this fucking bizarre pedestal-raising, this deification, for Marten, as this gloriously wonderful and always good and basically flawless person. Even the people who say they dislike Marten like Marten, witness ChibiSoma's misogynistic bullshit rantings where what Marten SHOULD do is at the heart of things. (This is not meant as an insult; ChibiSoma's posts are one misogynistic bullshit rant after another. Literally.)
It makes me hate him. I didn't, formerly, but at this point my fondest wish in regards to QC is Marten's continued suffering. I was honestly hoping that Dora would start a new life with Jim right in front of Marten and that his other friends would hook up and he would be left utterly alone and devastated, and it would taste of justice.
Marten is not that bad a dude, in truth. I don't even know that he deserves a capital Nice Guy. But he is a dude who told his best friend, while she was trying to care for him, that she owed him sex for helping her, and essentially called her a slut. To her face. He is fucking lucky she values their friendship as much as she does, because she would have been well within her rights to end said friendship right the fuck then. What he did was misogynistic, victimizing horseshit. It showed that on some level, there is a scumbag in Marten. Yes, he was talking with a poisoned brain: I remember vividly trying to tell people that and getting back choruses of "but but but in vino veritas." However, his poisoned brain does not wholly excuse what he said, and that Faye forgave him says a lot about how good a person Faye really is.
And what was the overwhelming response on this forum to those events? "Oh poor Marten oh you can't fault him for what he's saying he is so nice and he fucks up one time baaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww" with a light slice from fringe views of "fucking abusive whore why do you open your legs for all these other men when Marten deserves your peach, he has EARNED it". And I am just...I boggle. How the fuck? If someone said such things as Marten said, to you, in real life, wouldn't you lose some respect for them? Marten certainly lost much of mine, that day.
And afterwards, the trend has not abated. Marten is ever the victim, never at fault for anything. He is Marten the Blameless, Marten the Sufferer, twice betrayed, by a shrew and by a false Madonna: that is the note this forum sings unceasingly. And I am tired of it. It is why I totally understand Tiogyr's desire to remain apart from the "community." Hell, most of this board doesn't want to be part of a "community" with this forum: witness how they sequester themselves downboard in the Awkward Self-Aware Makeout Zone. To be part of a "community" is to bond arms with wrongheadedness, to be one of the hydra's heads, and I do not choose to be.
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I guess that "staying friends"-thing just depends on what you expect from social relationships or what social relationships mean to you. I chose mine very carefully and I'm rather alone than with people who(m?) I'm just with because there are no other/better alternatives. (I'd find that pretty annoying.)
So for example this
"so there is no shortage of people to form new relationships with (I could see this being a problem in really rural communities, maybe, but not a bustling city)."
does not matter in any way for me, that's probably the reason why it seemed weird to me why anyone wouldn't bother about being friends after a relationship all out of a sudden.
(My English does things this morning. Sorry.)
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To clarify where my long-winded rant cometh from, it is both from reading back Tiogyr's posts to analyze his viewpoint, which is not really all that objectionable (to me), the tide of increasingly vituperative responses to the fellow for saying pretty reasonable shit, and the pounding hammer of Glorious Marten and his Righteousness that has kept me away from the forum for several weeks for my own safety.
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The thing is though, if Marten stopped being the "Noble Victim" and actually manned up and went after what he wanted in life, would QC still be as enjoyable for you? I'm talking about the comic, not the forums, of course.
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the pounding hammer of Glorious Marten and his Righteousness
I think your reaction's a bit extreme, though. Marten is written as an amiable, bumbling everyman, who does little which is notably right or wrong; and rather a lot of people can identify with that. Yes, he mouthed off at Faye, but Faye punched him out and forgave him; Steve once mouthed off similarly at Marten (way back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=474)) and Marten walked out, but turned and went straight back in and forgave him (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=476). Seems reasonably balanced to me. And remember Jeph's own remark that he doesn't see any of the arguments as being entirely one-sided.
And "St Jeph"? Well, no - but he is the reason that this forum exists at all - and we should respect that, though without it becoming worship.
Finally, a remark about the "other parts" of the forum. There was a crowd of people (I've referred to them as "the old guard" in the past) who came to this forum when it was first set up because of some of them having met Jeph; however, they came, not just for the comic discussion, but more to use it as a replacement for a previous forum they had been on together. A few weeks ago, that group started to migrate to a new forum that one of them has set up; so I think that any antagonism there was could start to fade away.
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I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
I really need to know if the whole world is weird or if it's just me: WHAT THE FUCK COULD HAPPEN RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD MAGICALLY MAKE MARTEN UNABLE TO VISIT THE SECRET BAKERY?
Others have answered this already with my thoughts and more but figured I'd say the thought I had while posting. Marten started going to tSB because he couldn't go to CoD right after the break-up. He's already gone to CoD once but Dora wasn't there. Now Dora and him are talking and she's straight asked him to come by. He'll probably go between the two for a while till the awkwardness totally fades. Plus CoD has tSB's baked goods too so he won't need to go there just for those.
I'd still like to see tSB and its crew. Just wonder how likely it is or if there'll be a big drop in the crew's appearances. I still want to find out ScarNeck's name!
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But he is a dude who told his best friend, while she was trying to care for him, that she owed him sex for helping her, and essentially called her a slut. To her face. He is fucking lucky she values their friendship as much as she does, because she would have been well within her rights to end said friendship right the fuck then. What he did was misogynistic, victimizing horseshit. It showed that on some level, there is a scumbag in Marten. Yes, he was talking with a poisoned brain: I remember vividly trying to tell people that and getting back choruses of "but but but in vino veritas." However, his poisoned brain does not wholly excuse what he said, and that Faye forgave him says a lot about how good a person Faye really is.
I completely forgot about that event until you brought it up. You're overestimating the weight of Marten's comment, and undermining his friendship with Faye. They've been through stuff together and trust each other, like most good friends do. You don't toss all of that out of the window for one stupid comment made while intoxicated. That's just saying your ego is more important than the friendship, which is pretty fucked up in and of itself, don't you think?
Regardless, even if Faye had opted for the more bloodthristy approach and left him to wallow in his suffering, they still live in the same apartment, and there's no way Hannelore would stand idly by and watch her circle of friends go to hell over something like that. Marten would eventually have apologized for what he did (if Faye would even bring herself to remind him; keep in mind she did knock him out and he had little recollection of the nights events when he came to), Faye would forgive him because she is a good friend to him, as he is to her, and we would all go on with our lives. Basically the same as what's happening now.
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You don't toss all of that out of the window for one stupid comment made while intoxicated. That's just saying your ego is more important than the friendship, which is pretty fucked up in and of itself.
That depends on what you think alcohol does to Marten. Does he, for once, show what he really thinks because it's making him more daring (in that case his friendship to Faye didn't mean much to begin with, and I think that's not likely), or does he basically tell bullshit because his judgment is kind of limited in that condition.
But there was a discussion about that and it wasn't pretty, if I remember correctly.
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Do keep in mind that outside of that incident, Marten and Faye have maintained a perfectly normal and healthy friendship up until now. I mean, heck, this was the way it was even when Marten wanted to date her (and if you read his response in comic 501, it wasn't exactly a 'head-over-heels' sort of attraction). After the fact, Jeph even devoted an entire comic of self-musing to debunking the theory that Marten is on an indefinite hold for Faye. We're beyond the point of baseless speculation and ulterior motives; this is as good as it's going to get.
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You don't toss all of that out of the window for one stupid comment made while intoxicated. That's just saying your ego is more important than the friendship, which is pretty fucked up in and of itself.
That depends on what you think alcohol does to Marten. Does he, for once, show what he really thinks because it's making him more daring (in that case his friendship to Faye didn't mean much to begin with, and I think that's not likely), or does he basically tell bullshit because his judgment is kind of limited in that condition.
But there was a discussion about that and it wasn't pretty, if I remember correctly.
Intoxinated is a nice to say he was drunk like a sailor. A bottle of whiskey (it looked like that, that means ~35%) - the drink, that hanners took put into a whimpey 70kilo body.... , in ~5hours. Erm that leads to an blood alcohol of 2,6 o/oo. Cool thats short of a visit to the emergency room. lacheim! I'm stunned that he was able to form a complete sentence without throwing up ^^.
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You don't toss all of that out of the window for one stupid comment made while intoxicated. That's just saying your ego is more important than the friendship, which is pretty fucked up in and of itself.
That depends on what you think alcohol does to Marten. Does he, for once, show what he really thinks because it's making him more daring (in that case his friendship to Faye didn't mean much to begin with, and I think that's not likely), or does he basically tell bullshit because his judgment is kind of limited in that condition.
But there was a discussion about that and it wasn't pretty, if I remember correctly.
Depends on how much you believe the idea of in vino veritas. To me, the concept is mostly bullshit. You might care less about what you say so some truthful stuff slips out, but plenty of times you just get a lot of raw anger, sadness or other things boiling out for relatively little provocation.
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You don't toss all of that out of the window for one stupid comment made while intoxicated. That's just saying your ego is more important than the friendship, which is pretty fucked up in and of itself.
That depends on what you think alcohol does to Marten. Does he, for once, show what he really thinks because it's making him more daring (in that case his friendship to Faye didn't mean much to begin with, and I think that's not likely), or does he basically tell bullshit because his judgment is kind of limited in that condition.
But there was a discussion about that and it wasn't pretty, if I remember correctly.
Depends on how much you believe the idea of in vino veritas. To me, the concept is mostly bullshit. You might care less about what you say so some truthful stuff slips out, but plenty of times you just get a lot of raw anger, sadness or other things boiling out for relatively little provocation.
Well said - "Boring Personal Anecdote time"- at a friend's birthday, we were all sitting around a bonfire, drinking and catching up,and our quasi-genius friend steered us into debating what Zero meant to each of us. When they woke up the next morning (I stayed up to watch the dawn) we all agreed Zero just isn't that interesting without corrupted thought-patterns. Or a master's degree.
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Hodgson's Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)/Bellisario's Maxim (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleuvmtqrxe), people.
It's just a webcomic.
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I'll just limit myself to saying that it's possible to end up saying some pretty regrettable things when your mind is poisoned by bitterness and pain. Things that are out of character. Things that you don't truly believe. Friends will recognise those moments for what they are.
Oh, and that goes for Marten too. :-D
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It's just a webcomic.
I'm pretty sure I say this in my head at least once every time I read this thread. Still, I typically enjoy the discussion, so I contribute.
Now, to maim a mortified mustang (I think he died of alliteration):
When people bring up Marten's inappropriate behavior toward Faye, they tend to cite the one comic, and rip it out of context. The dude was in a bad place. That's all I'll say for now, but yeah, just take it in context.
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(collar-tug).. I better just come back on Monday, I think.
Whoa, wait for me, buddy. I´m with you.
If you´re headed to the next bar that is.
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Hodgson's Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)/Bellisario's Maxim (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleuvmtqrxe), people.
It's just a webcomic.
yeah, right.
Wait Bellisario did Quantum Leap? Another series on my all-time-favorite list made by him, damn (number 4).
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When people bring up Marten's inappropriate behavior toward Faye, they tend to cite the one comic, and rip it out of context. The dude was in a bad place. That's all I'll say for now, but yeah, just take it in context.
I'd be happy to continue that thought.
I'm perfectly aware that Marten's not a saint. Just as an example, he did do that drunken rambling, and that was pretty bad. But it was one time, and he was incredibly drunk, and Faye was more than likely just the recipient of a lot of the bitterness he was feeling at the time. PLUS, and I think this is quite important, while Faye letting it slide did save him some further shame (which he probably didn't need anyway), it also robbed him of the ability to defend himself. To this day he doesn't even know he did anything bad, so he can't even say "Oh my God, I'm so sorry, I don't know what thinking". And I think that the people who loathe Marten's actions on that day would like something of that sort. But Marten can't give it.
In fact, now that you mention it wrwight, I can't think of a single argument I've ever read against Marten's character which hasn't been centred around that one episode. And one isolated episode of drunken ranting shouldn't immediately turn someone from a sympathetic character into a completely unsympathetic one.
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Being relatively new to the forums the only comment I'll make about the community is that it is...divided, sometimes rather pointedly. And this is based only on what little I've gleaned from just this week of panels. And like all forums, the comments of some people reveal things about their personality and life experience that create , solely through conjecture, profiles of those individuals. Basically, we get a feel for them and make assumptions that allow us to predict how they are likely to respond to events.
That being said, (really rather obvious observation) while I do recognize that Marten is something of the everyman, I also recognize that the Everyman is equally noble as his is flawed. The Marten/Faye incident is pivotal because it showed Marten doing something we have never seen him do. It revealed the darker part of his "soul" (for lack of a better word) and demonstrated that we still don't know everything about Marten.
As a observation I would ask if there are any witnesses around who remember how Marten reacted when he went though his first serious break-up. I'm of course talking about the relationship that brought him to the east-coast. Also, I've noticed that besides Steve and Marten, no other characters seem to go through a period of darkness where they say or do things that others will find highly offensive.
Since it has only been two guys, it could be said that Jeph is simply reaffirming a general belief that women handle their emotions better than men, since neither Faye or Dora seemed to have fell into similar pits of darkness. Of course this does not excuse Marten. I feel he should be faced with one of his darker moments if for no other reason than to be aware of it. It is my hope that Pint-size was around and actively recording said behavior so that a some point in the future Marten can be made aware and grow just a little more.
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To clarify where my long-winded rant cometh from, it is both from reading back Tiogyr's posts to analyze his viewpoint, which is not really all that objectionable (to me), the tide of increasingly vituperative responses to the fellow for saying pretty reasonable shit, and the pounding hammer of Glorious Marten and his Righteousness that has kept me away from the forum for several weeks for my own safety.
What does, disagreeing with Tiogyr (who's viewpoint from what I can tell is that Exes should NEVER be friends, and that if your social circle is like that you are obviously from bumfuck nowhere, or are a hermit. Oh, also that if I haven't had a string of relationships to the point that I've gotten breaking up down to an art, there is something wrong with me) have to do with the "cult of Marten" that you are talking about.
That being said, he is a fairly harmless guy. The thing is, people don't tend to go out of their way to hate people whose problems (like Marten's passivity (which, is, not quite as extreme as the forums make it out to be at times, but does exist)) don't actively hurt anyone other than themselves (and even then, its generally hurting Marten over the long term, which is much harder to judge). The thing he said while drunk, is the only thing I can think of where he was DIRECTLY harmful towards anyone else without at least some provocation that makes it not OK but, understandable (such as some of his reactions to Dora). And honestly, can any of us say we've NEVER done something EVEN WHEN SOBER, that we shouldn't have done/said, that hurt someone else?
Actually there is no character in the comic I find awful or root against. Every single time I see discussions on the forum I just, am confused and wonder if people are as judgmental of their friends as they are of webcomic characters. I know if I judged every friend I had based on the worst actions they've ever taken, I wouldn't have any friends. No one is a saint. We all make mistakes. The fact that the characters make mistakes make them more HUMAN to me, not despicable.
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Maybe it's because I generally stick to the WCDT, but I just don't see the community being divided. I've only been here for a few months, but I felt that the forum took me in right away, responding to my posts, voting in my polls and generally treating me like I was already a regular.
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True dat
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The townie remark can't really be held against her, since Marten realizes she's right, that it's absurd that he's avoiding CoD. She may not have intended to, but she probably helped Marten a lot with that.
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I've ended the poll, as it's pointless now. Given that I omitted any option for "awkward but calm conversation", the poll pretty much got it right (one could picture a chaste hug on or before Monday, perhaps). I won't copy the figures here as they're visible at the top of the page.
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Hodgson's Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)/Bellisario's Maxim (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleuvmtqrxe), people.
It's just a webcomic.
Even I find it amusing that, with all the arguing going on, this is the point upon which I choose to take a stand, but… still… here’s another stupidly long post, but one that I think is important.
I’ve mentioned elsewhere my M.A. in English. Well, this is my research area. I study the cognitive origins and bases of narrative (especially in the area of what we tend to call mythic texts, including modern superhero stories… but that’s not really relevant here).
The reason I’m bringing this up is that there’s nothing more powerful than narrative in terms of human psychology. One of the reasons we create stories is that they are a way of projecting our inner psychological conflicts out into the world, where we can then interact with them and, hopefully, resolve the originating conflicts. These projections—narratives—can also help facilitate this process in others, as reading a story allows for the same projection as creation, although not perfectly, as certain details which are idiosyncratic to the author will not have the same meaning (if any) for the audience.
(Eight hundred paragraphs edited out because, dammit, although my research fascinates me, the details don’t help my immediate point).
The key thing here is the process of projection. As we read, we project ourselves onto the narrative as a whole, and parts of ourselves onto the characters. We invest ourselves in the text, connecting with it, the author, and each other in doing so. The problem is that some of those connections are a little shaky, since each individual is projecting a different part of him-or-herself onto the same images. Thus, one person’s Dora is a less-abstract webcomic-incarnation of that bitch that tore out his heart, while another’s Dora is a more-abstract depiction of, for instance, the need to accept and love oneself in order to develop as an individual (do you really think it’s a coincidence that Dora and Marten have grown to resemble each other physically?).
Still, although we’re all interacting with the text in different ways, what’s important is that all of those ways are incredibly intimate and personal, and that this is, actually, an essential cognitive process. When we dismiss texts as “only a movie” or “only a webcomic,” we’re choosing to ignore the power that these texts have in our hearts, minds, and lives.
When we trivialize our involvement with the text, we’re deliberately ignoring the power it has over us, and that’s dangerous. Suddenly, somebody’s popped the hood on our brains (without necessarily meaning to) and is messing around in there (also without meaning to), and is, if we’ve given the text enough power, changing the way we think (without our being aware of it). So, while some texts are light, easily-digested fluff that never really resonates with us, it’s important that, when we do get worked up, we (first take a step back and remember that not everyone is sharing our idiosyncratic experience and then) examine why we’re so invested in the text, rather than just dismissing it.
For the record, yes, in retrospect, I know I should have tried to get “tl;dr” as my screen name.
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That brings back, memories from a Pratchett novel out of the "Science of discworld" series. There was mentioned pan narrans, the story telling ape (i think it was the 2nd one).
I'm not sure if it wasn't targeted at a younger audience but it was a nice picture, that storys are one if not the main motivator in human development. Be it social or in terms of intellectual progress. We grow up with storys, in everydays life, in school.
We like fictional characters, we love their quirks, we hate if they suffer and feel their pain. It's gets a lot more intens (and with a greater audience than in scifci^^) if it's a nearly realistic setting (like qc, apart from antrhopc and creepy guys with robotic hands (well until they get developed)).
And yes, we curse the authors if our beloved characters with whom we struggled get killed or kicked in the groin (mental or physical). That's only slightly less annoing than a cliffhanger after a novel with 600p.
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Man, all this shouting over relationships and breakups makes me glad to be a celibate hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelibateHero).
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Man, all this shouting over relationships and breakups makes me glad to be a celibate hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelibateHero).
ah you're in a committed relationship that long, what's your golf handicap? :-D
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Man, all this shouting over relationships and breakups makes me glad to be a celibate hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelibateHero).
ah you're in a committed relationship that long, what's your golf handicap? :-D
Huh? No, by that I mean no relationships, as in never having been in one, and celibate, as in no sex, past, present and probably future. (For the record, I'm 26 and have never played golf, although I must admit to having watched it on telly a few times, didn't do much for me.)
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@FrozenPeas:
Thanks for the interesting thoughts. You are undoubtedly very close to the mark. A couple of random thoughts occurred to me while reading your post.
1. You can say: "It's just a webcomic" in so many ways - all depending. The objective could be a bona fide attempt to let the other person (or oneself) off the hook. We realize (been there /seen it many times) that a normally sane fellow forumite occasionally just can't let go a dearly held position. IOW it is a desperate attempt to find their reset button. It could also be a way to remind ourselves that contrary to the popular belief there is life outside QC. This does not necessarily contradict your intrepretation, but whenever I say that (mostly to myself) it is always an act of worship to Jeph's storytelling. Narrativium at work?
2. The back story of your research got me thinking. How can we be sure that we ('we' as in 'the posters of this forum') are not guinea pigs in your giant lab, now? Assuming that you're working towards your PhD. Or now that we're aware of our role as hamsters running inside a wheel, our usefulness as objects of research may be compromised? But, hey, we are saving you tons of money by giving you free research material! I will totally promise to be unaware of my labrat status, if you pay for beer and pizza at the end of the year party.
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Man this shit got serious, fast.
Just to speak up on the subject: I don't think Marten is a saint, and in fact enjoyed his lashing out at Faye because I felt like he was finally developing and going places. Only through great adversity... well you know the rest. Though I don't see him as perfect, I'm very invested in his growth as a character, very much so because of the reasons that FrozenPeas brought up. Marten very much reminds me of how I was during my high school years: very passive and non-confrontational, to the point that it was a detriment to my life. Thus I see a bit of myself in Marten, and am interested and rooting for him in regards to his growth as a character. I'll be dead honest: the last few months of comics have been frustrating me to no end, because Marten really hasn't been going anywhere. Just sulking at tsb and avoiding Dora. That's why I squeed like a little girl when Dora showed up at the party. Finally, he has to face his fears and move on.
Jeph displays his talent for character writing in that he gives each of our main cast members some type of hurdle they must overcome in order to grow and be satisfied. For Dora and Faye it is event(s) in their past that they have to move on from. For Hanners and Marigold, they have to overcome fundamental issues of their personality (crippling OCD and social anxiety, respectively.) Marten, however; I fell has the most difficult challenge in that he has to deal with both of the aforementioned. Both his past relationships, and his fundamental character traits of passivity and non-confrontational attitude need to be overcome for him to really "grow-up". I'd go on, but I don't want this to turn into Part III of my "The Fundamental Character of Marten" essay/rant.
I'll wrap up by saying that in no way is Marten perfect of a saint, and I do see that far too many people give him more and more slack. However I don't see how he's done anything to deserve having everything and anything ripped away from him, and for that to be called "justice." We've seen repeatedly that Marten feels lost in his life, and is trying to find direction and purpose. In that quest many people fall to dark places trying to find their way.
...Wow I type way too much. This is the reason we can't have nice things. :psyduck:
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@FrozenPeas:
Interestingly enough, a good portion of that wall of text up there is what I mean when I say to myself "It's just a webcomic." To me that means I'm entitled to interpret it the way I want, and I'm certainly not entitled to deny anyone else's opinion unless it is something that has been clearly shown in the comic to be wrong. This forum and specifically these WCDTs seem to (by nature of their name even) encourage discussion, and sometimes discussion becomes debate, and when I read two pages of people arguing while I've been at work or asleep or whatever, I think of at least a dozen things I want to say, but I have to calm down and remind myself "It's just a webcomic," and when I've done that, if there are still lingering thoughts, I'll post them. I've gotten several times to the end of a reply, pointer hovering over the "Post" button, and decide what I have to say doesn't contribute to the discussion in a healthy manner, so I just delete it.
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Man this shit got serious, fast.
Just to speak up on the subject: I don't think Marten is a saint, and in fact enjoyed his lashing out at Faye because I felt like he was finally developing and going places. Only through great adversity... well you know the rest. Though I don't see him as perfect, I'm very invested in his growth as a character, very much so because of the reasons that FrozenPeas brought up. Marten very much reminds me of how I was during my high school years: very passive and non-confrontational, to the point that it was a detriment to my life. Thus I see a bit of myself in Marten, and am interested and rooting for him in regards to his growth as a character. I'll be dead honest: the last few months of comics have been frustrating me to no end, because Marten really hasn't been going anywhere. Just sulking at tsb and avoiding Dora. That's why I squeed like a little girl when Dora showed up at the party. Finally, he has to face his fears and move on.
Jeph displays his talent for character writing in that he gives each of our main cast members some type of hurdle they must overcome in order to grow and be satisfied. For Dora and Faye it is event(s) in their past that they have to move on from. For Hanners and Marigold, they have to overcome fundamental issues of their personality (crippling OCD and social anxiety, respectively.) Marten, however; I fell has the most difficult challenge in that he has to deal with both of the aforementioned. Both his past relationships, and his fundamental character traits of passivity and non-confrontational attitude need to be overcome for him to really "grow-up". I'd go on, but I don't want this to turn into Part III of my "The Fundamental Character of Marten" essay/rant.
I'll wrap up by saying that in no way is Marten perfect of a saint, and I do see that far too many people give him more and more slack. However I don't see how he's done anything to deserve having everything and anything ripped away from him, and for that to be called "justice." We've seen repeatedly that Marten feels lost in his life, and is trying to find direction and purpose. In that quest many people fall to dark places trying to find their way.
...Wow I type way too much. This is the reason we can't have nice things. :psyduck:
Just pretend I used that "Clapping Kane" Gif from a few weeks ago, that's perhaps the best way it could ever be put.
(collar-tug).. I better just come back on Monday, I think.
Whoa, wait for me, buddy. I´m with you.
If you´re headed to the next bar that is.
Sure, just remember. Those 3 stools at the end are reversed for the Bros.
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Hodgson's Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)/Bellisario's Maxim (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleuvmtqrxe), people.
It's just a webcomic.
And your point? You've made over 2100 posts over "just a webcomic".
If people want to argue something in the comic, let them. Just because YOU don't want them to debate doesn't mean you can belittle people having serious discussions.
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And your point? You've made over 2100 posts over "just a webcomic".
If people want to argue something in the comic, let them. Just because YOU don't want them to debate doesn't mean you can belittle people having serious discussions.
Its 2100 posts from someone who has been on here for over 2 years, and has from what I've seen has been the person who has been the person responsible for the vast majority of the WCDTs, that includes posting them, updating them, commenting on them.
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Man, all this shouting over relationships and breakups makes me glad to be a celibate hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelibateHero).
ah you're in a committed relationship that long, what's your golf handicap? :-D
Huh? No, by that I mean no relationships, as in never having been in one, and celibate, as in no sex, past, present and probably future. (For the record, I'm 26 and have never played golf, although I must admit to having watched it on telly a few times, didn't do much for me.)
Just a marriage joke in Germany: "do you still have sex, or are you already playing golf". That is actually something we don't have very often.
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Just because YOU don't want them to debate doesn't mean you can belittle people having serious discussions.
He wasn't belittling anyone, nor suggesting that the debate shouldn't continue - after all, as you point out yourself, he's contributed a lot (though I should remind you that the count includes any contributions to other parts of the forum as well). He was just pointing out that the level of seriousness has at times got too extreme in the last couple of days (which is the reason that I have had to step in to stop it getting too heated - please don't try to start that up again, which your personal remark is in danger of doing).
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And your point? You've made over 2100 posts over "just a webcomic".
If people want to argue something in the comic, let them. Just because YOU don't want them to debate doesn't mean you can belittle people having serious discussions.
I daresay it wasn't an attempt to stop debate entirely. You said yourself that jwhouk has made over 2100 posts - that doesn't sound like someone who wants to quell debate to me. It was the manner in which the debate was at times being conducted that brought on the post.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Meh. I took too much time considering my words. I'll go ahead and hit the post button anyway.
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Meh. I took too much time considering my words.
Thats not a bad thing. All too often words are just picked in the heat of the moment and any impact they might have had is lost because the meaning wasn't considered.
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Just because YOU don't want them to debate doesn't mean you can belittle people having serious discussions.
He wasn't belittling anyone, nor suggesting that the debate shouldn't continue - after all, as you point out yourself, he's contributed a lot (though I should remind you that the count includes any contributions to other parts of the forum as well). He was just pointing out that the level of seriousness has at times got too extreme in the last couple of days (which is the reason that I have had to step in to stop it getting too heated - please don't try to start that up again, which your personal remark is in danger of doing).
I had interpreted it that he didn't approve of the conversation and was bashing them for taking the comic too seriously. Yes, it's just a comic, but one that everyone here reads daily and seems to take pretty seriously. I'll jump out of this thread though, my bad.
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@FrozenPeas:
Thanks for the interesting thoughts. You are undoubtedly very close to the mark. A couple of random thoughts occurred to me while reading your post.
1. You can say: "It's just a webcomic" in so many ways - all depending. The objective could be a bona fide attempt to let the other person (or oneself) off the hook. We realize (been there /seen it many times) that a normally sane fellow forumite occasionally just can't let go a dearly held position. IOW it is a desperate attempt to find their reset button. It could also be a way to remind ourselves that contrary to the popular belief there is life outside QC. This does not necessarily contradict your interpretation, but whenever I say that (mostly to myself) it is always an act of worship to Jeph's storytelling. Narrativium at work?
You’ve got an excellent point, here. Getting lost in the narrative is the other extreme, and that certainly doesn’t do anyone any good. If one never applies what one has learned, through interaction with the narrative, to one’s life, what good is the lesson? Everything in moderation and all that.
2. The back story of your research got me thinking. How can we be sure that we ('we' as in 'the posters of this forum') are not guinea pigs in your giant lab, now? Assuming that you're working towards your PhD. Or now that we're aware of our role as hamsters running inside a wheel, our usefulness as objects of research may be compromised? But, hey, we are saving you tons of money by giving you free research material! I will totally promise to be unaware of my labrat status, if you pay for beer and pizza at the end of the year party.
Heh heh heh. I’m not actually doing my Ph.D. right now, but the work continues. Fear not, my research is confined to reading the work of others at this point, as I’ve recently started expanding my study into an entirely new area.
Anyhoo, rest assured, any mind games I decide to play are purely for my own amusement.
I've gotten several times to the end of a reply, pointer hovering over the "Post" button, and decide what I have to say doesn't contribute to the discussion in a healthy manner, so I just delete it.
I do that all the time, and I think it helps in the long run. An obnoxious side-effect of being human is that we don’t tend to really solidify our thoughts until we’ve expressed them, either through speech or writing—so if the deleted text helped me sort out my own thoughts, or see a fault that I hadn’t seen while the thought was floating around my head, then it’s done its job, even if no one else ever sees it.
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No, it was more that we all need to take a breather and remember to not take things so seriously.
And I'm gonna want Tuesday's comic as a framed original print for my birthday in October, thanks.
(My 44th birthday - do the math.)
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And I'm gonna want Tuesday's comic as a framed original print for my birthday in October, thanks.
(My 44th birthday - do the math.)
Mine will be Thursday's comic, but I think I'll wait to see what comic Jeph decides to do on that day before attaching any significance to it.
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Mine'll be four weeks after J-dub's. (Not quite twenty years, though, mine is in late August)
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Reading this comic again made me realize how much I miss these two talking to each other while single. Dora's smirk at Marten's awkwardness? So good.
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It has been mentioned that some may want Marten to apologize for his drunken remarks to Faye. I've been thinking about that, and I have to ask; how can he apologize for something he obviously doesn't even remember doing/saying? Would such an apology really even mean anything?
Faye herself seems to have decided an apology wasn't important, hence her "encouraging" Marten to drop the subject when he bought it up next morning.
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What post are you referring to? The only one I see that mentions anything about Marten apologizing does so in the context of saying what you just did, that he can't apologize because he doesn't remember.
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I felt like creating a wordle from this thread, just for amusement and cusiosity.
(http://www.wordle.net/thumb/wrdl/3836581/PonyLeaks_Discussion_Forum_Independence_Week_Thread) (http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/3836581/PonyLeaks_Discussion_Forum_Independence_Week_Thread)
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although we’re all interacting with the text in different ways, what’s important is that all of those ways are incredibly intimate and personal, [...] So, [...] it’s important that, when we do get worked up, we [...] remember that not everyone is sharing our idiosyncratic experience and [...] examine why we’re so invested in the text,
Or as I often express it, people relate to the story in different ways.
Some people are only aware of their own interpretation, which bears on their personal life experiences, and may tend to see the presentation of an alternative view of the story as being an attack on theirs, and hence an attack on the validity of their own lives. This leads them to respond with a vehemence that can appear to come out of nowhere, and which seems out of proportion when a wider range of interpretations is considered; it's also what leads to the arguments getting personal. I see one of my roles as moderator being to try to get over to people that this is what is happening when they get so worked up (and - a real problem at times, this - to do that without coming over as patronising).
So if there is, as someone suggested, a split of this community into two parts, I would characterise them as being those who see the story as related solely to their own lives, and those who have found how to relate it to the lives of others as well, and thus see it with a wider perspective. The groups probably have differently skewed age distributions, because of the wider range of experiences that age tends to bring, though I would emphasise that there is not a simple youth/adult division.
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I'm glad Dora and Marten are talking. I wonder if this means he won't be returning to tSB.
I really need to know if the whole world is weird or if it's just me: WHAT THE FUCK COULD HAPPEN RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD MAGICALLY MAKE MARTEN UNABLE TO VISIT THE SECRET BAKERY?
Others have answered this already with my thoughts and more but figured I'd say the thought I had while posting. Marten started going to tSB because he couldn't go to CoD right after the break-up. He's already gone to CoD once but Dora wasn't there. Now Dora and him are talking and she's straight asked him to come by. He'll probably go between the two for a while till the awkwardness totally fades. Plus CoD has tSB's baked goods too so he won't need to go there just for those.
My post was almost completely stupid. I think I was drunk when I wrote it. Ah well, at least I didn't call anyone names.
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I don't really see the community as divided into two distinct groups. Regardless of which two groups are picked.
Rather, there seems to be a spectrum of how personal people take the comic, and that's not always clear. I tend to be pretty detached, since I don't identify with any particular character, but I love to rev up the engine of righteous indignation when any particular character suffers what I'd take as a personal slight. Of course, part of the spectrum is "I don't care", but that's always confused me a little. There are hundreds or maybe thousands of webcomics I don't read about and don't care about, and I don't join their forums or post. So I'm unable to understand why anyone who doesn't care a whit about QC is even here.
I'm looking forward to the Dora/Marten conversation. I hope they're honest, and as blunt as possible without inciting rage. I also can accept that the conversation I'm hoping for won't happen for a while. So be it. I'm also hoping Tai makes an appearance- it is her party, after all. Is she really going to be unaware of her crush and her employee having an emotionally charged conversation on the porch? Maybe, but if so she's probably drunk/stoned.
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Unaware? Unlikely. The real question is "Will she care?", and I think that depends on her level of sobriety. I also think that she's much more likely to suffer the same fate Marten did in the oft-referenced screw-up comic than to actually make it out the door to interrupt at this point. That would also make an entertaining comic though..
I would like to see her make an appearance at her own party as well, though her absence could easily be explained the next time Marten sees her at work.
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employee is a bit much for the working relationship of Marten and Tai, as I see it they're colleagues with Tai having seniority.
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employee is a bit much for the working relationship of Marten and Tai, as I see it they're colleagues with Tai having seniority.
Hmm - she did handle his interview, such as it was.
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Please remember: this is the same lady who not only passed out drunk on his shoulder, but then head-butted him in the 'nads and then puked in his lap. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=185)
There's not much that Marten could do or say, short of bodily harm to Faye, over which she would have given him a pass - especially when he was drunk. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1818)
And she also took care of him in a rather expedient manner, if you recall (and even if Marten did not). (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1819)
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There was (next to) zero chance of Marten's drunken 'advance' making a dent in the armour of his friendship with Faye. Here's my translation of their exchange the morning after (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1819) from F&M to English:
Marten: "Man, where did I get this huge bump on the side of the head?" (Curiously enough, this is almost the same in English. A vague recollection of a drunken pass and an incoming fist is implied, though.)
Faye: "Owls." (You were drunk. I knocked you out. Trust me. It was best for both of us.)
Marten: "Owls?" (Dang. Sorry, Faye. Guess I deserved it. What happened? Did I hurt you?)
Faye: "Owls." (I'm ok. It's ok. You had just been dumped. You were drunk. There is no reason to talk about last night ever again.)
I do have a tendency to read too much into some things, though :roll:. But Faye and Marten both remember the "space owl incident" with agent Turing, so I think that the message was clear enough.
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Tai gave Marten time off in 1092, so she's his supervisor.
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He called her "boss" when he first introduced her to the others: 776 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=776)
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Here's my translation of their exchange the morning after (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1819) from F&M to English <...>
I like that interpretation, but I admit that mine was different, albeit fourth-wall breaking: while Faye could have just told Marten that he stumbled and hit his head on the way to bed, 'OWLS' was simply waaay funnier.
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I'll say only 14 pages...
...it's like The Price is Right; you want to be closest without going over. :-D
We'll see if I'm caterwauling by this time tomorrow.
13 pages. :evil:
You win. :wink:
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Apropos of nothing else, since other people observe this particular milestone, I might as well also -- albeit a bit belatedly. #1965 is MY "birth year strip"...