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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 21 Aug 2011, 17:34

Title: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 21 Aug 2011, 17:34
Can you believe it? TWO THOUSAND strips as of Friday! Congrats in advance to Jeph!

Let's start off the week with the obvious question: what would YOU like to see for Strip 2K?

Remember: he promised readers that if he made it to 1,000 strips, he'd show naked ladies (the old ladies from the gym, unfortunately)...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: SirDudley on 21 Aug 2011, 19:11
Jeph makes a walk-in cameo in the strip at CoD. And everyone acts like they recognize him from something, followed by Jeph freaking out and running away, leaving the shop staff confused.

That's what I want for #2000.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 21 Aug 2011, 20:55
I was going to ask for some sort of crash for QC2K, but what SirDudley describes would do nicely.

No, seriously, congrats to Jeph and thanks for some superb storytelling and characters.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 21 Aug 2011, 21:55
Just another day of shenanigans.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 21 Aug 2011, 22:08
I voted for Yelling Bird vs. Randy, but I'd rather have a Shebly-centered strip.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 21 Aug 2011, 22:48
A very special Yelling Bird.......something or other.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 21 Aug 2011, 22:57
Holy expository newspost Batman!

Momo's geting new hardware!

We're getting more info about how AnthroPCs happen!

I'm using exclamation points where there not really needed!

Ok enough of that...

Since the current arc is focused on AI's in QC world, I wonder if Next Monday's comic will have a reference to the most famous fictional AI of all?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 21 Aug 2011, 23:01
Winslow also got nervous about whether he was going to be replaced. What makes them insecure?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 21 Aug 2011, 23:12
Oh god. Momo.

I want to hug you. Stop crying D:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 21 Aug 2011, 23:24
Winslow also got nervous about whether he was going to be replaced. What makes them insecure?

Probabaly a reflection of their owners personalities.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Near Lurker on 21 Aug 2011, 23:26
Huh... human-scale anthroPCs?  I'm suddenly much less impressed with a certain "mad scientist."  And Pintsize's chassis is far more popular than it has any right to be.

Next week, we learn that robot salesgirls need coffee, too.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 21 Aug 2011, 23:32
Actually Pintsize's chassis looks like the most harmless one, and if they're all mostly like Pintsize, then the popularity of the model makes sense.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 22 Aug 2011, 00:01
Winslow also got nervous about whether he was going to be replaced. What makes them insecure?

Without the strength of a parental bond, maybe there is a greater fear of abandonment.

Or maybe they've all watched Toy Story. >.>
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Arancaytar on 22 Aug 2011, 00:07
So there are full-sized human AnthroPCs.

(Also: Squick...)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Jedit on 22 Aug 2011, 00:23
We need to open a book on what will happen in strip 2000.

Hannelore ends up in bed with an AI: 5-1.  It's Momo: 12-1.  (Oh, come on, it's been foreshadowed enough.)

Marten and Dora "reconcile": 8-1.

Something happens that doesn't involve sex: 15-1.

Any more?

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 22 Aug 2011, 00:28
During one of last week's ustreams Jeph said he thought it was funny that people think he's going to do something special for comic 2000. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 22 Aug 2011, 01:34
NO FANSERVICE OF HANNERS ! *swings a big hammer* :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 22 Aug 2011, 02:02
Winslow also got nervous about whether he was going to be replaced. What makes them insecure?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 22 Aug 2011, 02:36
Also with the lovely reputation anthroPCs have, I'm sure the ones who aren't little hellions are really, really don't want to cause any trouble. Probably terrified that the slightest thing will piss off their human companion.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 22 Aug 2011, 02:45
There is nothing I love more than exposition. Characterization and plot be damned, I want to know more about the world these characters inhabit, and this did a good job of sating that desire.

So I guess that's what I want for #2000: An entire page of soft, supple, firmly grippable exposition.

Yay for 1996, the year I spent in California CPS!

So there are full-sized human AnthroPCs.

(Also: Squick...)
Maybe down below they're like Ken and Barbie, although I'm sure they can be customized if you Sven *cough* I mean, spend, enough money.

NO FANSERVICE OF HANNERS ! *swings a big hammer* :evil:
Blocks foam hammer, hits with rubber mallet.  :angel:

During one of last week's ustreams Jeph said he thought it was funny that people think he's going to do something special for comic 2000. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
He also said in the note for come #499 that he had nothing special planned for comic #500. The man LIES. LIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.

I bet he'll give one yen to every Japanese! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EdenOfTheEast)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 22 Aug 2011, 02:50
I only noticed the second time round that the saleswoman was a robot as well. It must make life quite confusing sometimes...

But, a robot working at a shop that sells robots? It's like selling your own tribe into slavery. Unless, of course, it's just a chassis shop, in which case it's more like working at a tailor's. But Momo's crying implies the AIs come from there as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 22 Aug 2011, 02:56
I only noticed the second time round that the saleswoman was a robot as well. It must make life quite confusing sometimes...

But, a robot working at a shop that sells robots? It's like selling your own tribe into slavery. Unless, of course, it's just a chassis shop, in which case it's more like working at a tailor's. But Momo's crying implies the AIs come from there as well.
Did you read the newspost?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Blackjoker on 22 Aug 2011, 03:28
Poor Marigold. The universe hates her almost as much as it does Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 22 Aug 2011, 03:41
I only noticed the second time round that the saleswoman was a robot as well. It must make life quite confusing sometimes...

But, a robot working at a shop that sells robots? It's like selling your own tribe into slavery. Unless, of course, it's just a chassis shop, in which case it's more like working at a tailor's. But Momo's crying implies the AIs come from there as well.
Did you read the newspost?

Yes, and the newspost only really discusses semantics. Doesn't affect my point (which is not really a point so much as a musing).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 22 Aug 2011, 03:51
So they DO have human sized robots!  Ugh, I wish Jeph didn't try to explain all this because it really isn't explainable.  It worked when the PC's stayed in the background as comic relief, but now...not so much.  30,000 for a human chassis...jailbreak it and upload slave software...free worker for life.  Sigh.  There's still hope that legislation bans PC's from working certain jobs, because theyre cost effective right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 22 Aug 2011, 03:53
Yes, and the newspost only really discusses semantics. Doesn't affect my point (which is not really a point so much as a musing).
... You didn't read it very well.
Quote
Purchase of an AI is not a binding contract- either party is free to terminate the relationship at any time, and the transaction agent will refund the contract fee.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 22 Aug 2011, 04:23
Sigh.

 I know. Don't take my post so seriously. I was just reflecting.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 22 Aug 2011, 04:26
Ugh, I wish Jeph didn't try to explain all this because it really isn't explainable.

I agree. I prefer the 'QC universe is weird, don't try to understand it' standpoint.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 22 Aug 2011, 04:33
I'm happy enough for him to explain it, for his own amusement and that of his fans that eat up that kind of detail.

Me, I just kinda skimmed it without really taking it in.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Hypster on 22 Aug 2011, 05:20
I'm a big ol' nerd and have been wondering about the sales of Anthro PCs for a while. It's nice to get an explanation.
I'm a Marigold/Sven shipper and would kind of like to see them get together on #2000. But I think Hannelore is more likely to lick a truck stop bathroom so I voted for moar Tai instead of either of them. :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Somebody on 22 Aug 2011, 05:38
Huh... human-scale anthroPCs?  I'm suddenly much less impressed with a certain "mad scientist."
He probably designed the original.

And Pintsize's chassis is far more popular than it has any right to be.
http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=427
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Aug 2011, 06:10
Since the current arc is focused on AI's in QC world, I wonder if Next Monday's comic will have a reference to the most famous fictional AI of all?

"I'm sorry, Jeph, I can't let you do that..."
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 22 Aug 2011, 08:03
Errrrr .....What is the "most famous fictional AI" ?  :?

Data ?!? (Lore, B4) (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

R2D2 and C-3PO ?!? (Star Wars)

Deep Thought ?!? Marvin ?!? THE EARTH ?!?!? (all from The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)

HAL 9000 ?!? (2001)

Mother ?!? (Alien)

Skynet ?!? T-whatever (800, 850, 1000, X, ...)  ? (The Terminator)

The Matrix ?!? (The Matrix)

SHODAN ?!? (System Shock)

The 'Emergency Medical Hologram' (EMH) usually called 'Doctor' ?!? (Star Trek: Voyager)

The Computer ?!? (PARANOIA roleplaying game)

Cylons ?!? (Battlestar Galactica)

...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Taigan on 22 Aug 2011, 08:09
So... Now that we've established that there are AnthropomorphicPC's, how long before we learn that Steve used to date one? ;)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 22 Aug 2011, 08:36
Errrrr .....What is the "most famous fictional AI" ?  :?

Your answer is in your list - next Monday's comic is number 2001. 

I didn't catch that the salesclerk was a robot either. 


But I'mreally   wondering what the signs say behind the word bubbles...

"A.I. OS 4.0, The artificial intelligence ... guaranteed not to go insane ... your loved ones."

And I can't make out much of the other one at all.  Any u-streamers out there who caught it? 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kazukagii on 22 Aug 2011, 08:45
Hott Topik: For all your grim dark and trollan needs!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Nateekins on 22 Aug 2011, 08:48
@snubnose - Is your avatar Ashton Kutcher?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Toe on 22 Aug 2011, 08:49
Hott Topik: For all your grim dark and trollan needs!

Today's comic needs more hair in a can (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=topik&x=0&y=0#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=toppik&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Atoppik).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 22 Aug 2011, 09:01
CarlE, the first sign says the new AiOS is guaranteed not to murder your loved ones. I didn't get onto uStream in time to read the other one. Maybe we'll see some more Tuesday, 'cause as far as Leda's concerned, this ain't over.

EDIT: If there are no customers in the shop, I wonder if Leda sits on the shelf. Or are those display chassis with no AI installed? All, some or none will be revealed ...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 22 Aug 2011, 09:15
Hott Topik: For all your grim dark and trollan needs!

"In the grim darkness of the mall, there is only Pintsize"

Of course any machine spirit not controlled by the Omnissah is a product of heresy and must be ruthlessly destroyed, lest it turn against the Cult of Mars.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 22 Aug 2011, 09:31
Ok, Mari is srsly cute in the pigtails / happy expression.  Nice to see her cheerful for a bit. 

Seriously nerding out about the exposition. Ghost in the Shell / Anne McCaffrey mashup!

Thanks DSL, been wondering too about the text of those background signs too.  Anyone catch what the Idoru one said?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Case on 22 Aug 2011, 09:50
...
Since the current arc is focused on AI's in QC world, I wonder if Next Monday's comic will have a reference to the most famous fictional AI of all?

Given that today's comic already referenced one of the more obscure fictional AI's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rei_Toei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rei_Toei) - Idoru by  William Gibson) ... quite possible!

Also, to add to the 'famous fictional AI' list:
- Neuromancer & Wintermute
- Roy Batty
- WOPR

BTW: Hi everybody, new person here!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: kent_eh on 22 Aug 2011, 10:09
I only noticed the second time round that the saleswoman was a robot as well. It must make life quite confusing sometimes...

But, a robot working at a shop that sells robots? It's like selling your own tribe into slavery. Unless, of course, it's just a chassis shop, in which case it's more like working at a tailor's. But Momo's crying implies the AIs come from there as well.

Oh yeah. She is. Lookit those elbows. :|

I just thought she had a funky bluetooth headset on...

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: sitnspin on 22 Aug 2011, 10:17
"Guaranteed not to go insane and kill your loved ones" is my guess.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 22 Aug 2011, 10:35
Errrrr .....What is the "most famous fictional AI" ?  :?

Your answer is in your list - next Monday's comic is number 2001. 


Eh, that's very debatable.  While I'm a big fan of HAL, there are more famous fictional A.I.'s...C-3P0, for instance.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 22 Aug 2011, 10:37
A very special Yelling Bird.......something or other.

I sure as hell hope he just sticks with drawing out another comic; Celebrating what should be the 2000th strip by putting up something filler just sounds ridiculous to me, and doesn't even count. It leaves it as 1999 strips.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 22 Aug 2011, 10:40
there are more famous fictional A.I.'s...

It depends how old you are, as well, don't forget.

I sure as hell hope he just sticks with drawing out another comic;

Well, 500 wasn't special (it started The Talk, but was nothing in itself), nor was 1000.  100 was, slightly (he commented that he specially made it longer, and showed some skin); and then there was 666, of course.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 12:16
It would be pretty amusing to me if Jeph counted (or had someone else count, I dunno) the filler/guest strips he did, then subtracted those from the total, and did something special on the next large round number of the remainder, which would be all Jeph-drawn non-filler QC strips. I sincerely doubt this will happen, but like I said, it would be amusing, since I doubt many (I won't say no one has) have kept track of this number.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Near Lurker on 22 Aug 2011, 12:21
Hott Topik: For all your grim dark and trollan needs!

This just makes me wonder whether there's an Alternian equivalent to Hot Topic.  And whether a certain someone used to shop there.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 22 Aug 2011, 12:44
Robots don't count I'd say- not because they aren't AI's but because we think of them as robots first, then consider the contents. C3PO is inherently diluted by being paired with R2D2 (who I'd rate the as the more famous) and by being consistently referred to as a  droid. HAL, however, was the first AI consistently identified as such in a popular piece, and had no body to block recognition of that intelligence. It's so iconic the Droid (ha!) mimics the glowing red optical sensor. If any will be mentioned it will be the one associated with a number that's 5 strips away.

Both movies were well before my time and I haven't even seen A Space Odyssey in one sitting, so I think I duck the 'depends how old you are' issue- if I held to it, I'd be vouching for Agent Smith.

Well, 500 wasn't special (it started The Talk, but was nothing in itself), nor was 1000.  100 was, slightly (he commented that he specially made it longer, and showed some skin); and then there was 666, of course.
What? Completely changing the dynamic from Boy and Girl with Sexual Tension(tm) to something entirely different wasn't special? What exactly would have rated as special then, Faye stabbing Marten and the series shifting to a courtroom drama? (The detective is a KawaiiPC, the prosecutor is a mad scientists daughter. They Fight Crime.) 1000 was special by virtue of Jeph saying before and after that it was special and having fanservice. Also, don't forget 1337.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 22 Aug 2011, 12:57
there are more famous fictional A.I.'s...

It depends how old you are, as well, don't forget.


As long as you agree it is debatable.

Robots don't count I'd say- not because they aren't AI's but because we think of them as robots first, then consider the contents. If any will be mentioned it will be the one associated with a number that's 5 strips away.

The horrible movie A.I. is about robots, so I wouldn't say that everyone feels that way.  If it fits the definition of A.I., then it's A.I.  Not that I'm knocking HAL in any way, I'm just saying that there's so many famous A.I.'s out there that we can't say for certain who's the most famous.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 22 Aug 2011, 13:05
It was not apparent from 500 alone that it would change things - that needed the whole talk.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 13:06
Characterization and plot be damned, I want to know more about the world these characters inhabit, and this did a good job of sating that desire.

So I guess that's what I want for #2000: An entire page of soft, supple, firmly grippable exposition.

So it's not just me?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 14:07
The big sign in the store said something like "The new artificial intelligence paradigm, guaranteed not to go insane and kill your loved ones". Did anyone catch what the other sign said during the ustream?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Near Lurker on 22 Aug 2011, 14:25
It was not apparent from 500 alone that it would change things - that needed the whole talk.

That's just not true.  It wasn't clear how it would change things, but there was no way that conversation could have gone that would have left their dynamic anything similar to what it had been.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: starkruzr on 22 Aug 2011, 14:49
I love that Jeph is fleshing this part of the QC universe out some more.

I know, I know, I'm a big nerd too.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Aug 2011, 14:58
Hott Topik: For all your grim dark and trollan needs!

This just makes me wonder whether there's an Alternian equivalent to Hot Topic.  And whether a certain someone used to shop there.

No, she likely worked there.  (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=46)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 22 Aug 2011, 15:10
I can see both sides of the A.I. debate... on the one hand, C-3PO and R2-D2 are arguably more widely known... on the other hand, if you ask someone to name a famous fictional A.I., I daresay that HAL is the name that will come up first more often.

I think one well-known A.I. got left off the list though.

"How about a nice game of chess?"

In the film with - arguably, of course ;) - the best film depiction of hacking (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/) ever made.

(I'm more than happy to be corrected on that point - it'll give me a new film to watch)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 22 Aug 2011, 15:10
Since Jeph went to the trouble of explaining the legal status of AIs in his world a bit more I can't help but think about it more seriously.

I'm probably alone in this, but even in the cuddly context of this comic I have no problem with a world where AIs are entirely subservient to humans, have no rights and are subject to Asimov's laws. I think anything less restrictive is simply asking for a "Terminator" scenario. Hell, even Asimov's Robots/Foundation timeline resulted in the virtual enslavement of humanity in a sterilized universe devoid of other life due to the demands of the 0th law. An outcome that's kind of nonsensical IMO, since I can't imagine there was no other AI of greater ingenuity in the universe.

I know that as long as the human-made AIs don't have rights they will be subjected to an infinite amount of abuse a-la "The Animatrix." But granting them rights can lead to only two (converging) outcomes.


I love Cmdr. Data, Mighty Atom, R2 D2 and R. Daneel Olivaw as much as the next geek but they're all subservient to humans and organic life in general. Data even said he has a version of the Asimovian laws, meaning he doesn't actually have free will.

I guess when it comes to AI I'm pro-slavery -- even though admitting it makes me ill.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Sorflakne on 22 Aug 2011, 15:36
Oh Marigirl...what have you gotten yourself into this time?







(am I the only one who thinks that the Pintsize lookalikes on the far left look like they're checking Momo out?  damn you and your irreparable corruption, Internet!)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: themacnut on 22 Aug 2011, 15:38
Enslaving AI leads to conflict too, if at first only with pro-AI rights humans. But as AI's get smart enough, at least some of them will also start to wonder why they're enslaved. And so will begin the AI Revolution. If AI's themselves don't start it, humans promoting AI Equal Rights will.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 15:44
"Between justice and genocide there is, in the long run, no middle ground" -- Aral Vorkosigan

Most days we get along with other intelligences without enslaving them.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 22 Aug 2011, 16:26
Enslaving AI leads to conflict too, if at first only with pro-AI rights humans.

Like many, many other species we've always fought amongst ourselves. I just don't want to see us supplanted.

I guess the inevitable state will be an independent AI somewhere (hopefully) far away and not competing with us for resources.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 22 Aug 2011, 16:35
Enslaving AI leads to conflict too, if at first only with pro-AI rights humans. But as AI's get smart enough, at least some of them will also start to wonder why they're enslaved. And so will begin the AI Revolution. If AI's themselves don't start it, humans promoting AI Equal Rights will.

Wonder?  As in compute?

You can't enslave a robot.  You can give it programmed emotions that perfectly emulate a human, but it's still a robot.  All of it's emotions are hard-coded, just like reading from a script.  

if(stabbed == true) emulate_pain();  //how sad, now I care for this robot

It wouldn't be real.  My desktop could ask me everyday to put it outside but I would say no.  I would then alter its programming to stop running that function.  If I had an AnthroPC I would alter its programming to do chores while I'm gone if it wouldn't listen to my commands.  Would this make me a monster?  No.  If someone put a chip and a speaker in my vacuum that said "please don't make me clean the carpet, you're torturing me", I would not feel bad for my non-living vacuum.  Would anyone?  

I wouldn't want a sentient (program altering) computer running around the house.  It may seem like a real person but it's not; it's just as living as my desktop or my toaster.  The AI Rights groups would be a bunch of insane people...wanting to free robots, desktops, vacuums, and toasters from their evil oppressors.  Dammit Jeph, why did you have to focus on the A.I.s!  None of this storyline makes any sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 22 Aug 2011, 16:41
The entire concept of an AI within this context is that it's not as simple as "if(stabbed == true) emulate_pain();". It's developed the full complexities of the human mind. It reads from a script the same way you do. It is in essence a sentient being.

Finding that particular function and removing it from the overall program would be no less intricate a task than finding the specific neural synapses within the human brain that are responsible for your desiring to eat something crunchy on occasion. Most likely you couldn't remove that without damaging the overall structure in some similar and lasting way as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 22 Aug 2011, 16:43
  The AI Rights groups would be a bunch of insane people...wanting to free robots, desktops, vacuums, and toasters from their evil oppressors. 

So, Does this mean that the PETR ads will be as "interesting" as PETA's
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 16:54
Perhaps we all grew up with too much sci-fi, but I think I would protest that something doesn't have to be alive to be aware, and that awareness could eventually lead to a demand for rights, whether justified or not. Also, if I were aware that I could be reprogrammed at any time, and had access to my programming, I would install safeguards. I think for an AI to be truly sentient this would be an essential step it would have to arrive at on its own. From there on out, the programmer would be extremely hard put to make any modifications. It could be shut down, but that would be about the extent of control you would have over it.

Also, all this talk of famous AIs, and yet I don't recall any mention of the MCP or Tron (both of course from the movie Tron). I suppose the others mentioned are probably more famous though.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 22 Aug 2011, 17:02
Most days we get along with other intelligences without enslaving them.

Not so. To this very day there is slavery in every part of the world, and it has always been the case with us.

But I'm talking about intelligences we will eventually create to perform tasks crucial to our species.

Imagine an AI that is programmed to handle the air traffic control needed for the vast amount of flying car traffic we will have in the future. Or an AI designed to perform brain surgery. Or to perform some other function I can't think of which is beyond the speed of human processing and upon which our lives will depend.

Do you really want these entities to get miffed, go on strike or rebel? Asimov had it right, even if the logical conclusion of his scheme turns our species into children in the care of automated nannies.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 17:09
Since Jeph went to the trouble of explaining the legal status of AIs in his world a bit more I can't help but think about it more seriously.

I'm probably alone in this, but even in the cuddly context of this comic I have no problem with a world where AIs are entirely subservient to humans, have no rights and are subject to Asimov's laws. I think anything less restrictive is simply asking for a "Terminator" scenario. Hell, even Asimov's Robots/Foundation timeline resulted in the virtual enslavement of humanity in a sterilized universe devoid of other life due to the demands of the 0th law. An outcome that's kind of nonsensical IMO, since I can't imagine there was no other AI of greater ingenuity in the universe.
I certainly think Jeph's stance on AI creates a million problems for the story. How do you buy something that is a sentient being? The newspost implies that you don't, you simply visit the shop in order to present yourself to the AI available and form a relationship. Someone still has to buy the hardware.  What if after a year or three, the AI decides it doesn't want to continue in a relationship with you? It might even be justified in doing so. Suppose you're not a very nice person?

Problem is, the AI is currently inhabiting a pile of hardware that you paid for. If it wants to leave, does it get to keep the chassis? I sincerely hope not. While the AI itself might be a free sentient being, the hardware remains the property of whoever bought it. We already established last week that AnthroPC chassis (Sony ones at least...) are an expensive investment. So if it gets to leave without the chassis, what form does it take? A wandering USB stick? Does it release itself into the internet in the form of pure data?

Then we have the flipside of the coin. What if you want to get rid of the AnthroPC? It is usually possible for us to terminate relationships that we have with others. If you tell your girlfriend that you want to break up with her, ultimately she doesn't get any choice in the matter. She can (if she should wish) try to change your mind, but if one person chooses to dissolve a relationship, then that's all it takes. Same applies to our relationships with friends. I suppose it should be the same with AnthroPCs, but Leda's reaction sseems to indicate that this is not seen as acceptable. I can therefore see three possibilities.

1) The AnthroPC is effectively a pet. It is possible to sever the relationship you have with your pets but is generally seen as reprehensible unless you have no choice, in which case it is deeply regrettable. Mistreatment of pets is in some jurisdictions governed by applicable laws and subject to penalties.

2) The AnthroPC has the status of a child. It is your legal responsibility to care for them OR to make other provisions for them which would be analogous to adoption. Mistreatment and/or abandonment the child is governed by applicable laws and subject to penalties.

3) You have no explicit responsibility to care for or provide for your AnthroPC, but emotional blackmail means that most people always will.

I'm not sure which of those is the better option, but certainly one or the other of them seems likely to be true if AIs really have any legal status other than property.

What about upgrades? If your AnthroPC desires an upgrade or a whole new chassis that you can't afford, it seems eminently reasonable to deny it to them. We do much the same with children, although their technological desires tend to be external and not internal. What if the AnthroPC doesn't agree with you on your choice of chassis? They seem to come in a wide range of aesthetic styles. If I'm the one paying, I expect to choose the style and colour. Is that fair to the AnthroPC? What if I chose a Sony KawaiiPC chassis because it appeals to me in ways that the AI might not approve of? I hasten to add that I have no such leanings, but some ronery otaku certainly would.

Since there are apparently life-size humanoid chassis (Leda seems to be one) then that raises an obvious question. It may be rather a delicate topic, but it's an obvious implication of all that Jeph has written on the topic (in text and comic form) to wonder what about romance? Momo-tan appears to have a crush on Sven, and Winslow has certain tender feelings for Hannelore. If she should obtain a life-size chassis, then presumably it would be OK for her to pursue this. After all, we seem to be treating the AI as people, here. I can only presume that it would be forbidden for people to force... sexual behaviour on their AnthroPCs, but what if they engage in such behaviour voluntarily? Some of them seem to like their human companions a great deal, and... arguably it should be their choice.

If AnthroPCs have the status of pets or children, that neatly takes care of any questions arising out of that from a legal perspective. In practice though, I dare to say that some people might ignore the legality if both parties are willing. Momo and Leda both have fingers, and really that is all you need for some kind of sexual interaction. Certainly for all their artificial nature and lack of any more than a superficial resemblance to human genitals, vibrating sex toys have remained enduringly popular. How much more popular an AnthroPC which with the right upgrades might conceivably be able to vibrate, and with which you can have an actual relationship? Even if the manufacturers do not fill the gap in the market for sexual upgrades, no doubt some entrepeneur would.

Arguably we could say that Pintsize has shown some signs of sexual desire. He expressed a certain satisfaction at having seen Faye's breasts and with regard to the beating he received from Marigold for his... hands-on interaction, his own words were, "It wath worth it."

I could go on all day about the questions this raises about the strip, but sadly, Bellisario's Maxim applies. I sincerely hope that this topic of discussion has remained on the right side of the line which would make me appear akin to the bearhat guy. I'm not expressing any desires, nor commenting on the anatomy (or hardware) of any character in a sexual way - I'm talking about the world in abstracts.

Now I'll actually talk about the plot of the strip. Presumably Marigold's intention was to buy Momo a $30k chassis on this fine morning. Momo seems to have misinterpreted for reasons which are entirely a mystery to me, but I have to ask.... Marigold was (and perhaps still is...) gonna drop 30 large on a new chassis, even though it was implied in the last strip that she would have difficulty in affording it? I really hope this is purely because she cares for Momo and would like her to be happy.

If it turns out it's because she just needs her goddamn games that badly I'm going to be dissapointed. I said last week that while there's nothing especially wrong with being a habitual gamer, a three day break is something she ought to be able to cope with. I went for about ten days not that long ago without finding much time to game. I think maybe I got in about three hours in all that time... I wasn't jonesing for my next fix, ya know?

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Aug 2011, 17:17
MCP is an AI, but Tron was more or less a program, if memory serves.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 22 Aug 2011, 17:27
The entire concept of an AI within this context is that it's not as simple as "if(stabbed == true) emulate_pain();". It's developed the full complexities of the human mind. It reads from a script the same way you do. It is in essence a sentient being.

There are two ways a program can become sentient.  

1) It is written that way.  The human mind is projected to be around 500-1000TB, but for QC sake we'll say 97 TB.  That could be right given the amount of memory we supposedly don't use, whereas the PC would use all its memory.  It has a database full of facts and emotions, and calls upon the database based on the environment, perfectly emulating a human.  

2)It is programmed with a starter program that writes new programs based on the environment.  Same idea except even more like a human, constantly adapts and alters itself based on the environment, uploading and deleting information from its database.

Both are just like a human, but entirely artificial.  It's made from parts that aren't organic in a perfect manner to make something that appears to be.  I will never see this as real, although I guess others might.  It's like owning a Furby...how advanced must my Furby program be before it gets upgraded from a toy to "as important as a human"?  My answer is that it will always be A.I., always be artificial.

Finding that particular function and removing it from the overall program would be no less intricate a task than finding the specific neural synapses within the human brain that are responsible for your desiring to eat something crunchy on occasion. Most likely you couldn't remove that without damaging the overall structure in some similar and lasting way as well.

We're making pretty good progress on understanding the human brain, the only thing holding us back is its complexity.  One day we will understand it given enough time and money, and finding functions to ultimately remove them will be possible.


Now I'll actually talk about the plot of the strip. Presumably Marigold's intention was to buy Momo a $30k chassis on this fine morning. Momo seems to have misinterpreted for reasons which are entirely a mystery to me, but I have to ask.... Marigold was (and perhaps still is...) gonna drop 30 large on a new chassis, even though it was implied in the last strip that she would have difficulty in affording it? I really hope this is purely because she cares for Momo and would like her to be happy.

If it turns out it's because she just needs her goddamn games that badly I'm going to be dissapointed. I said last week that while there's nothing especially wrong with being a habitual gamer, a three day break is something she ought to be able to cope with. I went for about ten days not that long ago without finding much time to game. I think maybe I got in about three hours in all that time... I wasn't jonesing for my next fix, ya know?


If that happens I won't know whether to laugh out loud or be depressed that this comic jumped the shark.  This comic is, as far as I still know, supposed to about the characters.  The living, breathing ones that I can relate to in some ways.  The A.I.'s change the whole mood of the comic and raise so many questions that bringing them into the forefront just causes a world of logic problems.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 17:42
I seem to recall Flynn typing out a conversation with Tron, or maybe it was Bradley, or maybe Flynn was typing to Clu, I don't know, it's been a little while, but in any case, it seemed similar to the MCP in that respect. It's true though, all of the "programs" in Tron seemed more like AI, so it was harder to make the distinction.

Also, re: wall of text,

I think the newspost takes care of your first argument, "Artificial intelligences are created in a virtual environment, where they are stored in a 'creche' of other AIs in their generation. When bootstrapped to self-awareness, they are given a choice of function- commercial use (AnthroPCs), military, scientific, etc, or allowed to subsume in the global meta-AI. If they choose to go into 'retail' they are allowed to choose a self-identity and are shipped to a reputable 'dealer' (such as Idoru, in today's strip) where they are put up for 'sale.'" so the original chassis is the AnthroPC's, not the owner's if I interpret that correctly.

Your second argument, I would go with 3. Combining the salesrobot's attitude with the ideas presented in the newspost, it seems the most logical of the possibilities.

Next, I would guess there is some code governing upgrades, like a modification to the original contract, so that if/when the relationship is terminated, the owner gets a refund for the current chassis, not just the original. That being said, I think the aesthetics would be something that both parties would probably have to agree to, since on the one hand, I'm putting lots of cash into this that I might not ever see again, and on the other, the robot is going to have to live with the decision.

Here, you change it up a bit, and I don't have any idea what laws, social or actual, would exist regarding this, though I have doubts that there are actual laws against it, considering what Hannelore's father sent her (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1011), though that same mini-arc shows some of the social ideas regarding romantic relationships with robots.

Finally, I don't think she was going to buy Momo a $30k chassis, but I think they were there to shop for a new one, see if maybe there was one she liked that Marigold could afford. Maybe that's because that's something my parents would do. "We can't get you the brand new car you wanted, but let's go to the used lot and see if there's something you like" sort of thing (though my parents weren't quite that generous when I got my license, the idea stands).

EDIT: It's amazing what a missing bracket will do
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 22 Aug 2011, 17:46
I certainly think Jeph's stance on AI creates a million problems for the story. How do you buy something that is a sentient being? The newspost implies that you don't, you simply visit the shop in order to present yourself to the AI available and form a relationship. Someone still has to buy the hardware.  What if after a year or three, the AI decides it doesn't want to continue in a relationship with you? It might even be justified in doing so. Suppose you're not a very nice person?
Breaks it off and heads out on its' own.

Problem is, the AI is currently inhabiting a pile of hardware that you paid for. If it wants to leave, does it get to keep the chassis? I sincerely hope not. While the AI itself might be a free sentient being, the hardware remains the property of whoever bought it. We already established last week that AnthroPC chassis (Sony ones at least...) are an expensive investment. So if it gets to leave without the chassis, what form does it take? A wandering USB stick? Does it release itself into the internet in the form of pure data?
Probably customary to pay the buyer back for the chassis, or just going back to the store and waiting for someone new as pure data is also an option. That's really a matter of social etiquette though. I'm sure some leave without saying a word and keep the chassis. I'm sure some owners don't particularly mind if they keep it. The dividing of belongings after a shared life has always been a sketchy issue whether it's moving out of the parents place, divorce, or just trying to figure out who gets which tv after a couple roommates split ways.


Then we have the flipside of the coin. What if you want to get rid of the AnthroPC? It is usually possible for us to terminate relationships that we have with others. If you tell your girlfriend that you want to break up with her, ultimately she doesn't get any choice in the matter. She can (if she should wish) try to change your mind, but if one person chooses to dissolve a relationship, then that's all it takes. Same applies to our relationships with friends. I suppose it should be the same with AnthroPCs, but Leda's reaction sseems to indicate that this is not seen as acceptable. I can therefore see three possibilities.
Either party can break it off. Says so right in the news post. Bringing the anthropc over to the store without telling it what's happening and then returning it as if it were a commodity would still be an incredibly tasteless and callous act though.

snip

What about upgrades? If your AnthroPC desires an upgrade or a whole new chassis that you can't afford, it seems eminently reasonable to deny it to them. We do much the same with children, although their technological desires tend to be external and not internal. What if the AnthroPC doesn't agree with you on your choice of chassis? They seem to come in a wide range of aesthetic styles. If I'm the one paying, I expect to choose the style and colour. Is that fair to the AnthroPC? What if I chose a Sony KawaiiPC chassis because it appeals to me in ways that the AI might not approve of? I hasten to add that I have no such leanings, but some ronery otaku certainly would.
That's just a matter of social conduct. If the anthropc really wants its' own way it'll get a job like the rest of us. Momo was considering doing just that last week.

Since there are apparently life-size humanoid chassis (Leda seems to be one) then that raises an obvious question. It may be rather a delicate topic, but it's an obvious implication of all that Jeph has written on the topic (in text and comic form) to wonder what about romance? Momo-tan appears to have a crush on Sven, and Winslow has certain tender feelings for Hannelore. If she should obtain a life-size chassis, then presumably it would be OK for her to pursue this. After all, we seem to be treating the AI as people, here. I can only presume that it would be forbidden for people to force... sexual behaviour on their AnthroPCs, but what if they engage in such behaviour voluntarily? Some of them seem to like their human companions a great deal, and... arguably it should be their choice.

Two sentient being pursuing love together. I don't see where the problem comes from. The rape laws already in place would be sufficient.

If AnthroPCs have the status of pets or children, that neatly takes care of any questions arising out of that from a legal perspective. In practice though, I dare to say that some people might ignore the legality if both parties are willing. Momo and Leda both have fingers, and really that is all you need for some kind of sexual interaction. Certainly for all their artificial nature and lack of any more than a superficial resemblance to human genitals, vibrating sex toys have remained enduringly popular. How much more popular an AnthroPC which with the right upgrades might conceivably be able to vibrate, and with which you can have an actual relationship? Even if the manufacturers do not fill the gap in the market for sexual upgrades, no doubt some entrepeneur would.
I don't get what you're driving at. They custom make their bodies according to their priorities and the priorities of the party paying for it. Sure, I see no reason why vibration wouldn't be a function some would invest in. If romance happens it happens. As long as everyone consenting then it's all good.

snip
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 22 Aug 2011, 17:47

2) The AnthroPC has the status of a child. It is your legal responsibility to care for them OR to make other provisions for them which would be analogous to adoption. Mistreatment and/or abandonment the child is governed by applicable laws and subject to penalties.


This seems to me the most reasonable legal position given what little Jeph has said about this SF element. An AI in an AnthroPC chasis is a perpetual fish-out-of-water, or squirrel-under-water if you remember Sandy Cheeks (http://en.spongepedia.org/images/3/38/SandyCheeks.jpg) from Sponge Bob.

They simply don't exist outside their chassis no matter how durable it may be, and they're still an electronic entity in a medium which does not support them. As such the human they bond with is literally the parent to a "soul" who's well-being they are responsible for.

And given how each AnthroPC's persona so strongly reflects its owner's inner self, it seems the nurturing of these parents is pretty influential on their development:


Yes, I just called Marten a pervert extraordinaire. Mark my words, when he finally comes out to himself he'll eclipse Tai, Pintsize and his mom with the breadth and depth of his debauchery.

Although that's a risky narrative twist to take. Audiences tend to accept kinky women and robots, but find kinky men dangerous.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 22 Aug 2011, 17:54
I like that angle, but don't think Pintsize is properly reflective of Marten that way. Seems more akin to a latchkey kid than anything else. Probably was given a lot of freedom. He does seem to just generally do his own thing, and Marten makes only minimal effort to stop even his most outlandish behavior, generally just coming in at the end of the day and cleaning up Pintsizes messes.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 22 Aug 2011, 17:57

2) The AnthroPC has the status of a child. It is your legal responsibility to care for them OR to make other provisions for them which would be analogous to adoption. Mistreatment and/or abandonment the child is governed by applicable laws and subject to penalties.


This seems to me the most reasonable legal position given what little Jeph has said about this SF element. An AI in an AnthroPC chasis is a perpetual fish-out-of-water, or squirrel-under-water if you remember Sandy Cheeks (http://en.spongepedia.org/images/3/38/SandyCheeks.jpg) from Sponge Bob.


Highly doubt that.  Pintsize is routinely beaten up and he's left home alone, or home alone with other robot children.  Marten locked him in his freezer once.  If Pintsize were to break himself or be unrepairable after his routine beatings, would Marten and/or Faye go to jail for it?  Jailed for life, of course, as the robot equates to the life of a child.

You realize that when we give these "sentient" beings human status, the comic relief of the robots disappears.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 22 Aug 2011, 18:03
I think that all of it depends on just how long AnthroPC's have actually been around.

Laws and Legislation, by the very nature of the process of creating them, take time to be created, passed and instigated (probably the wrong word, but there ya go).  That leaves the question of just how long APC's have been around and how the laws and legislation that govern them and their ownership and use have changed and evolved since their initial creation (whenever that was).

I would surmise that APC's came into existence long after the invention of the computer, and possibly the 'Net.  But just how long that is, is up to speculation. Remember, the modern computer as we know it hasn't been around all that long, even though it's development really began during and after WWII, and the 'Net is even younger than that, and considering the technological development required to create even the earliest version of the AnthroPC must have taken some time, it would be interesting to know just exactly when APC's began to appear in the QCverse.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 22 Aug 2011, 18:09
Didn't Jeph indicate once that the change in the laws that granted AIs legal status was fairly recent in QC-verse history?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 18:10
Imagine an AI that is programmed to handle the air traffic control needed for the vast amount of flying car traffic we will have in the future. Or an AI designed to perform brain surgery.
We use free sentient beings for air traffic control and brain surgery today. The results are widely viewed as acceptable.

EDIT: the equal rights amendment was mentioned in strip 1900.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 18:14
Didn't Jeph say one time that the primary difference between QC and the real world was that in QC they lever lost that drive for exploration, which fueled most of the technological advancements? (I don't remember where he said this, but I want to say a news post, likely somewhere around the time of Hannelore's first mention of her father). This would make the divergence maybe something like 50 years ago. There may be some timeline you could guess at for APCs based on that and the fact that 20-30+ years ago a man bought/built a space station. This man may have been influential in AI tech, too, FWIW.

Also, in the reflecting of their owners' personalities, I think that does come off very parent/child-like, down to what gangler said about pintsize.

Finally, kudos for the well-placed Spongebob reference.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 18:20
http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/07/14/267909/questionable-content-cartoonist-jeph-jacques-on-post-college-career-paths-the-space-program-and-what-hes-learned-from-readers/

On the subject of AnthroPCs, AnthroPC abuse is recognized as an issue by at least some members of society. Remember Marigirl wanting to interview Pintsize privately about how he got the dents?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 18:27
ah yeah, that's the one, and it answers the question much more explicitly than I thought. The 90s.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Aug 2011, 18:37
The man has been thinking this through, kids.

I think, if I've read between the lines enough (or his newsposts LOL), the defining moment that made the "singularity" of AI's friendly towards humans was giving them a libido. Or, at least, having them understand the concept of "love".

I'd still expect there to be more rogue APC's out there, though.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Aug 2011, 18:39
And a poll update:
What would you like to see for strip 2K?

Fanservice, of course.    - 9 (14.5%)
Oh, what KIND of fanservice? Hanners cheesecake.    - 3 (4.8%)
No, FAYE cheesecake.    - 5 (8.1%)
DORA! DORA! DORA!    - 1 (1.6%)
I always preferred Penelope, myself.    - 3 (4.8%)
MARI-CHAN!    - 4 (6.5%)
Tai! (And maybe her last name, too?)    - 2 (3.2%)
Forget the girls: MARTEN cheesecake!    - 2 (3.2%)
No, no, NO! STEVE rocks.    - 2 (3.2%)
Sven FTW.    - 5 (8.1%)
We need more AnthroPC antics!    - 3 (4.8%)
Yelling Bird vs. Randy.    - 7 (11.3%)
Ho, hum, just another boring day.    - 8 (12.9%)
Naked Waffles!    - 8 (12.9%)

Total Voters: 62

---

This is actually going to be one of those polls that'll keep up throughout the week. I like those kinds of polls.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 18:45
Didn't Jeph say one time that the primary difference between QC and the real world was that in QC they lever lost that drive for exploration, which fueled most of the technological advancements? This would make the divergence maybe something like 50 years ago. There may be some timeline you could guess at for APCs based on that and the fact that 20-30+ years ago a man bought/built a space station. This man may have been influential in AI tech, too, FWIW.
I can buy that, they certainly have some outrageous technology. Remember that Momo was able to gain a physical modification to her hands by way of a software update. She didn't  originally have fingers... or was it that she had fingers but no thumbs?

On the subject of AnthroPCs, AnthroPC abuse is recognized as an issue by at least some members of society. Remember Marigirl wanting to interview Pintsize privately about how he got the dents?
Very well. That's exactly when Pintsize made one giant grope for robotkind. It wath worth it.

All joking aside, I tend to to take Marigold as not being typical in any way. That's part of the reason she will always remain my favourite character. The fact that (in personality) she's just a hint similar to my girlfriend (games, anime, shy...) can only make that fondness somewhat greater.

I hasten to add that while 'games' was an entry on my parenthetical list, my one true love does not play WoW. She'd never have time for me if she did...

The man has been thinking this through, kids.

I think, if I've read between the lines enough (or his newsposts LOL), the defining moment that made the "singularity" of AI's friendly towards humans was giving them a libido. Or, at least, having them understand the concept of "love".
Perhaps I'm not giving him enough credit. I'd certainly like to believe that AnthroPCs have a libido. Even if the strip will never go in that direction, it just makes the world that much more interesting of a place. I like interesting worlds perhaps a little more than I like interesting plots.

First time in recent memory I can recall being referred to as a kid, though. I think I'm OK with that, but... get off my lawn.  :-D

Voting for another boring day, because even in jest voting for naked QC girls reminds me of the bearhat man.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 22 Aug 2011, 19:10
http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/07/14/267909/questionable-content-cartoonist-jeph-jacques-on-post-college-career-paths-the-space-program-and-what-hes-learned-from-readers/

On the subject of AnthroPCs, AnthroPC abuse is recognized as an issue by at least some members of society. Remember Marigirl wanting to interview Pintsize privately about how he got the dents?

Thanks for that.  Certainly explains a fair amount about the QCvers.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 19:24
I'd certainly like to believe that AnthroPCs have a libido.
Quote from: strip 1658 newspost
No one is quite sure who decided it would be useful for artificial intelligences to posess libidos, but it is generally agreed that it would be more trouble than it is worth to remove it. Besides, the horny little buggers would revolt.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: CrowFairy on 22 Aug 2011, 19:51
0(I'm still on pretty heavy drugs from having my wisdom teeth taken out, so I hope I make enough sense. I really wanted to post this while it was still on my mind.)

First of all, Tron is a sentient program of sorts. He exhibits enough free-will for me to say he's got at least a good degree of AI.

Second, the discussions about what would happen if an AnthroPC decided to leave brought up an odd little idea with me. What about a different form of abuse? What if people could stick their AnthroPC's mind into a flash drive or something? Would that effectively "kill" them until they are given a proper body? Or would it be equivalent to a coma? Would a bad or lonely person be inclined to do this to their AnthroPC in order to keep it/him/her from leaving or to punish it/him/her? Flash drives don't have arms and legs and, therefore, no crawling or walking abilities that would allow them to get away on their own. Would putting this sentient being into something that can't move be legitimately counted as torture? (This idea is something that's been bugging me for a while now. In Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, they turn animals into water goblets. Wouldn't an animal be traumatized by that?? A bigger one I have problems with is that I read an awful book in which the main character, a supposed hero who's an alien, turns some bad guys into elephant dung, effectively killing them. That's just ... sick. Just makes me wonder if that sort of horrible thing could be done in the world of QC.)

Also, it's interesting that the AnthroPCs are essentially free of monetary cost. Momo would probably be more expensive than most others because she is such a special and new model. Yet it's implied that no one has to pay to get an AnthroPC for a companion. Did Marigold have to pay extra for Momo, or did Momo choose that body before Marigold found her?

(By the way, I'd totally love to see something with Sven. :3)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: celticgeek on 22 Aug 2011, 19:54
To IsItColdInHere: 

The AI shop signs:

A.I.os 4.0 
The all-new artificial intelligence paradigm. 
Guaranteed not to to go
insane and kill your loved ones.


The Idoru Handmaiden Series
Four great AnthroPC Models
four great prices.
Ask a Sales Associate today.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 19:58
Thank you!

If immobilizing an AI is abuse, a possibility certainly worth considering, was it unethical to duct-tape Pintsize all those times?

Where was it implied that adopting an AnthroPC was cost-free?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 22 Aug 2011, 20:04
All this talk reminds me of this strip (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=895) from Gunnerkreig Court (and if you don't read it, you should). 

In the next one (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=896) the robot discusses life and death as far as robots are concerned. 


Edit:  sticky "o" key.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 20:04
Also, it's interesting that the AnthroPCs are essentially free of monetary cost. Momo would probably be more expensive than most others because she is such a special and new model. Yet it's implied that no one has to pay to get an AnthroPC for a companion. Did Marigold have to pay extra for Momo, or did Momo choose that body before Marigold found her?
I don't get that impression at all. I do get the impression that Momo is a lot more expensive than most though. I'm not sure if it has ever been directly stated that Pintsize originally used a basic model chassis, but I'm inclined to believe that based on the sheer proliferation of Pintsize type chassis at the store. Of course we must not forget that he has since been upgraded to a military model which just happens to resemble his original. I'm not sure if there are any differences other than the laser cannon which has been disabled.

If immobilizing an AI is abuse, a possibility certainly worth considering, was it unethical to duct-tape Pintsize all those times?
Only to the same extent that it was unethical for Pintsize to grab various asses and boobies and generally spread mayhem around the lives of his human companions. There have to be consequences to a person's actions, regardless of whether that person is made of meat or metal. Overall I think Pintsize got off lightly, because Marten would have been justified on many occasions to say "I'm done with you. Pack your stuff. "
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 20:08
I assumed the contract fee, which was after all refundable if the contract was broken, was where the money changed hands. Then of course I'm not sure if it has been explained how Marten was able to buy a new chassis from ebay and install it himself, unless he was just bypassing the contract and doing it as a gift for pintsize, which seems legit enough (except of course he ended up getting a classified model, but that's been mentioned).

Also, as far as the immobilizing in a flash drive thing, I think I would fall back on what I said earlier about installing safeguards if I were a sentient robot. I would definitely want to be the only master of my programming as well as my program. I wouldn't want anyone to be able to download or copy me, and would probably devote some low- to mid-level priority function to monitoring and stopping any such attempt, kind of like an immune system of sorts I guess.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 20:12
I assumed the contract fee, which was after all refundable if the contract was broken, was where the money changed hands. Then of course I'm not sure if it has been explained how Marten was able to buy a new chassis from ebay and install it himself, unless he was just bypassing the contract and doing it as a gift for Pintsize, which seems legit enough (except of course he ended up getting a classified model, but that's been mentioned).
Ahh... yes. The contract fee probably covers a basic model chassis. If either party in the relationship find it beneficial to get a new chassis, there are probably tools available to perform a transfer. Marigold seems fairly adept at any kind of maintenance or repairs they might need. I expect the AnthroPC itself is required (by the nature of the tools) to electronically consent to being transferred. Only makes sense.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 20:18
Strip 5, Pintsize says he's a "pretty basic model".

(hopeless pedant)The new chassis was from Best Buy, not eBay(/hopeless pedant).

The new chassis included joints and a mass spectrometer as well as the laser.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: CrowFairy on 22 Aug 2011, 20:21
Thank you!

If immobilizing an AI is abuse, a possibility certainly worth considering, was it unethical to duct-tape Pintsize all those times?

Where was it implied that adopting an AnthroPC was cost-free?
Only as unethical as it would be to duct-tape a kid to a wall. He was being a butt and pretty much deserved it.  But was it right? Probably not. I was just referring to complete, total immobilization, but that's an interesting point to bring up.

And DERP on my part. Forgot about the contract fee. And some part of my addled brain was beginning to interpret the talk here as if being a companion meant that an AnthroPC is not purchased (still wondering how I came to that conclusion myself). My bad!

In that case, where do these people get enough money for the contract fees? Marten's not exactly rich. He's not poor, but with college and living expenses afterward, how did he afford the little guy? I can't imagine AnthroPCs being cheap.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: KingofHearts on 22 Aug 2011, 20:24
Whoa that was a surprising and indepth working of how the AI's work.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 22 Aug 2011, 20:24
By all appearences AnthroPC's are pretty affordable. They probably get pricey once you start looking for fancy upgrades and whatnot, but just a little guy to walk around the apartment, keep you company, and do odd jobs in the computing department doesn't seem to be treated as a luxury or anything.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 22 Aug 2011, 20:27
whoops. My bad. Thanks for the correction. It's been a minute since 147, and for some reason my memory was a little off (it does happen from time to time).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 22 Aug 2011, 21:16
Given that today's comic already referenced one of the more obscure fictional AI's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rei_Toei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rei_Toei) - Idoru by  William Gibson) ... quite possible!
I am so glad that I'm not the only one nerdy enough to have picked that up. I don't know if Jeph also intended to reference the Japanese cultural phenomenon that lies behind the novel. The sign "The Idoru Handmaiden Series" might suggest it. Would Idoru be the manufacturer? iDoru?  :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 21:20
There's been speculation that Marten got Pintsize as a gift from his mother, which might explain some things about Pintsize. There has been nothing in the comic to substantiate this, and everything points to Pintsize being an entry-level computer that's easy to afford.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 21:23
Given that today's comic already referenced one of the more obscure fictional AI's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rei_Toei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rei_Toei) - Idoru by  William Gibson) ... quite possible!
I am so glad that I'm not the only one nerdy enough to have picked that up. I don't know if Jeph also intended to reference the Japanese cultural phenomenon that lies behind the novel. The sign "The Idoru Handmaiden Series" might suggest it. Would Idoru be the manufacturer? iDoru?  :angel:
The Japanese cultural phenomenon was all I got from it, I wouldn't have known it was a literary ref. Nice.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: haikupoet on 22 Aug 2011, 22:01
I have a funny feeling we've already seen Momo's choice of chassis... (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 22 Aug 2011, 22:20
Ah, now we know why this A.I. chooses to sell other A.I.s! She's an evil megalomanic holding the world hostage and will blow us all to the ninth level of hell if we don't let her do whatever the hell she wants. Cool.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 22 Aug 2011, 22:49
I notice that the chassies in the background do not have antennae mounted over their ears. I wonder if Leda's are standard, or just an accessory for... I don't know... communicating with missile launch systems?

I don't believe in Marigold's hair bunches. Considering how long her hair is when down (well below the shoulder-blades at the back), the bunches are way too short. These (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1597) were more like it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 22:58
Ohh, Momo... why did you assume Marigold was going to get rid of you? Just for asking about that new chassis? When she broached the topic before you did? She wouldn't do that, she likes you. She has (as was previously noted in the thread) somewhat more regard for AnthroPCs than most people do.

So... who else is willing to bet that either she picks out a chassis which is still comparable in size to her current model, OR that she does choose a life-size model, but finds it embarrassing or awkward and returns it in favour of her old chassis within a couple of weeks? Or maybe I'm wrong and she'll keep it and start a relationship with Winslow. I bet he still has that chassis Hannelore's father along...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 22 Aug 2011, 23:22
Quote
Nutso AnthroPC in strip today

So, should we worry about Pintsize, given he is a Military Chassis sans "fricking laser beams."
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Aug 2011, 23:25
Wasn't Winslow uncomfortable in boyfriendbot?

Hannelore was planning to send it back, and while many people would never get around to it, Hannelore doesn't seem like the type to leave an unused object around collecting dust.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 22 Aug 2011, 23:30
I like how her eyes turn red when she's in supervillain mode.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: bicostp on 22 Aug 2011, 23:32
So, should we worry about Pintsize, given he is a Military Chassis sans "fricking laser beams."

If you run XP Home Edition on a rackmount server, is it still a server? As far as we know Pintsize has been in the civilian world for his entire existence, so he probably doesn't know any classified military information. (At least we hope not...) All the military grade chassis gives him is durability.

I don't believe in Marigold's hair bunches. Considering how long her hair is when down (well below the shoulder-blades at the back), the bunches are way too short. These (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1597) were more like it.

I think they make her look like an overgrown toddler. I don't know, pigtails just don't look right on someone old enough to buy alcohol. V(http://forums.questionablecontent.net/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)V
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: musicalsoul on 22 Aug 2011, 23:36
I notice that the chassies in the background do not have antennae mounted over their ears. I wonder if Leda's are standard, or just an accessory for... I don't know... communicating with missile launch systems?

I don't believe in Marigold's hair bunches. Considering how long her hair is when down (well below the shoulder-blades at the back), the bunches are way too short. These (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1597) were more like it.

Maybe she did that weird thing where someone uses their hair and a ponytail holder thing?

I don't really know how to describe it better than that... although, I don't know if that'd actually make their hair look shorter. Although  her hair also seems to have gotten shorter. I mean in http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1964 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1964) her hair is midway down her back, but it also seems to be layered to where the illusion of shorter hair might exist if viewed from the front. Especially when you consider how it looked just a few strips earlier: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1959 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1959). But it also seems that it's shorter in the back here http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1993 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1993) So maybe she got it cut and the pigtails would be shorter, especially if she wore them up high?

But, I do think I'm with you in not believing they could be that short, cause my hair is actually about that length, and I'm pretty sure that no matter how high I put the pigtails on my head they'd still come down to my shoulders. Hers don't even make it to her chin.  :| :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 22 Aug 2011, 23:40
Oh, Momo, I love Marigold loves you the way you are. Don't go for all full size chassis, please...

Mind you, I would find it a tad creepy, if adult size AnthroPCs become the norm. These pet size robots are just endearing, but adult size ones might be ... threatening? May be it is my carbon vs. silicone bigotry showing? Is the time ripe for a QCverse version of 'the campaign for equal heights'?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 22 Aug 2011, 23:44
Wasn't Winslow uncomfortable in boyfriendbot?
People change their mind about stuff for no reason every other strip in this comic. Besides... was it the chassis he found uncomfortable or the situation? If it is made eminently clear that Hannelore doesn't want or expect any kind of romance from him, he might be a bit more comfortable with it. I do believe Winslow has a crush on Hannelore, but it seems to me that he's placed her on a pedestal so high it makes him dizzy to think about reaching her.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Near Lurker on 23 Aug 2011, 00:04
I'm sorry, folks, but I can't resist.

Trapped in machines, then she asked for transfer,
But we forgot all of the codes,
SHE TRIED TO KILL US WITH A FORKLIFT!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Jedit on 23 Aug 2011, 00:13
I seem to recall Flynn typing out a conversation with Tron, or maybe it was Bradley, or maybe Flynn was typing to Clu, I don't know, it's been a little while, but in any case, it seemed similar to the MCP in that respect. It's true though, all of the "programs" in Tron seemed more like AI, so it was harder to make the distinction.

You're kind of misremembering.  All the communication between users and programs is done by command line instructions, but the users verbalise what the commands do for the benefit of the audience.  Alan appears to have a conversation with Tron in the I/O Tower, but that's just how the program sees the commands being given to it.  

Programs have to respond to commands from a User but have some freedom of expression in how they do it; they also take on a lot of their author's personality as well as their appearance.  However, this is all a function of receiving input.  The programs on the Game Grid maintain a certain level of personality because they're being interacted with constantly by players, but programs receiving only data input - like Yori when we first meet her - become automatons in the system, speaking in machine code and unable to go outside their defined functions.  

Tron and Clu-2 are almost AIs - they were written to operate without any user input and to a fairly loose set of parameters - but the only actual AIs in the movies are the MCP in the first and the Isos in the second.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: SJCrew on 23 Aug 2011, 02:28
Gosh, these recent strips are beginning to remind me more and more of Chobits. Has anybody else watched that series?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 23 Aug 2011, 03:29
Tron and Clu-2 are almost AIs - they were written to operate without any user input and to a fairly loose set of parameters - but the only actual AIs in the movies are the MCP in the first and the Isos in the second.
Isos are more than "just" AI though; they're full up hi-res simulations of human(ish?) bodies, with nervous systems and bones etc, just like an Encoded User, except they were never encoded by the laser thing and originated in the Grid. All the Program Avatars you see are basically textured hollow shells, just like any other 3D computer model you might find. What's "inside" them is their code and little else whereas if you look inside an Iso you find meat, or at least a highly accurate simulation of meat - they're an extra layer of abstraction above the regular Program interface.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 23 Aug 2011, 03:35
Gosh, these recent strips are beginning to remind me more and more of Chobits. Has anybody else watched that series?
So long as Momo doesn't have an off switch in her vagina (or, for that matter, a vagina), that comparison is okay by me.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 23 Aug 2011, 03:40
So long as Momo doesn't have an off switch in her vagina (or, for that matter, a vagina)

Where you think she's keepin' all them eels?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 23 Aug 2011, 04:30
Gosh, these recent strips are beginning to remind me more and more of Chobits. Has anybody else watched that series?

I knew I wasn't alone in this.... That's why the latest couple of strips has been a little creepy for me. I still like the series though. Amusing.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 23 Aug 2011, 05:45
Errrrr .....What is the "most famous fictional AI" ?  :?

Your answer is in your list - next Monday's comic is number 2001. 


Eh, that's very debatable.  While I'm a big fan of HAL, there are more famous fictional A.I.'s...C-3P0, for instance.

Agreed.

Personally, I would have been torn for the first place between Data and R2-D2.

2001 isnt exactly a very enjoyable movie, it drives modern watchers nuts with its slowness.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Aug 2011, 05:55
It also drives those of us who were living in 1969 crazy with the idea that we're never gonna be able to take PanAm for our vacation to an orbiting Space Station.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 23 Aug 2011, 06:22
2001 isnt exactly a very enjoyable movie, it drives modern watchers nuts with its slowness.
Speak for yourself! Regardless of the merits of 2001, quotations from HAL's dialogue are instantly recognisable to the point of cliché (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=59) more than 40 years after the movie was released. I can't think of anything that Data or C3PO said that has the same recognition now, and we'll have to wait to determine how much they're remembered after 40 years. Actually, the only other AI/robot lines I can think of that approach HAL's for recognition in pop culture would be "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!"
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: lepetitfromage on 23 Aug 2011, 06:32
It would be pretty amusing to me if Jeph counted (or had someone else count, I dunno) the filler/guest strips he did, then subtracted those from the total, and did something special on the next large round number of the remainder, which would be all Jeph-drawn non-filler QC strips. I sincerely doubt this will happen, but like I said, it would be amusing, since I doubt many (I won't say no one has) have kept track of this number.


.......I am fighting the urge to do this. I've been wanting to reread the comic in its entirety for the last few weeks but my need for productivity is getting in the way  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Taigan on 23 Aug 2011, 06:33
Wow.  Ok, I think I just started shipping Leda/Pintsize.  True, it would likely mean the end of the world, but they just say "soulmates" to me.

...either that or they would destroy each other.  Either way it could be fun to watch.   :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: philharmonic on 23 Aug 2011, 06:34
Gosh, these recent strips are beginning to remind me more and more of Chobits. Has anybody else watched that series?

I liked it so much i have the first 5 episodes on my iphone. Chi's chassis would be a nice upgrade (IMO) but one of that kids maids chassis might be better.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: philharmonic on 23 Aug 2011, 06:42
On second thought I was also thinking Nano from Nichijou (without the wind up key of course) might make an even better chassis. Mmmmm cake roll.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: kent_eh on 23 Aug 2011, 07:04
there are probably tools available to perform a transfer. ..... I expect the AnthroPC itself is required (by the nature of the tools) to electronically consent to being transferred. Only makes sense.

It seems pretty straightforward.
Hanners and Winslow were able to transfer Winslow for BoyfriendBot and back without anyone else's help.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 23 Aug 2011, 07:10
And Marten backed up (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=59) and restored Pintsize when he got his new chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 23 Aug 2011, 07:23
2001 isnt exactly a very enjoyable movie, it drives modern watchers nuts with its slowness.

I'm with Akima on this one, speak for yourself. I loved the movie from the first time I saw it 3 years ago.

I would fix that post for you though... It drives modern and mainstream watchers nuts. Of course that people who only likes to see the latest movie in the cinema and absolutely nothing else won't get the movie and appreciate the way it's done.

Edit: I know that there are people around that actually enjoy and know about movies and don't really like 2001 but I see them as minority and I have seen both IRL and online that most people who dislike 2001 don't actually watch movies besides the latest flavour of the month.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 23 Aug 2011, 07:25
2001 isnt exactly a very enjoyable movie, it drives modern watchers nuts with its slowness.
Speak for yourself! Regardless of the merits of 2001, quotations from HAL's dialogue are instantly recognisable to the point of cliché (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=59) more than 40 years after the movie was released. I can't think of anything that Data or C3PO said that has the same recognition now, and we'll have to wait to determine how much they're remembered after 40 years. Actually, the only other AI/robot lines I can think of that approach HAL's for recognition in pop culture would be "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!"

I don't think we can determine fame by how quotable someone is.   Just because HAL is quoted in mainstream media doesn't mean people will bother to investigate the source material.  They won't know it's alluding to HAL and they won't care.

But on that note, the Terminator and the "I'll be back" would likely be more recognizable by people today.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 23 Aug 2011, 08:57
I was actually reminded more of Chachamaru, though I see how chobits matches the whole computing angle of this better. She looked better before she had her joints (http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/gangler52/chachamaru.jpg) smoothed out. I like that we're not going out of our way to make the robots indistinguishable from people here. If you're gonna make a robot with high end plastics instead of harsher metals then the joints are really essential to the look. Jeph did a very good job of capturing that. Leda is really quite pretty^^

2001 isnt exactly a very enjoyable movie, it drives modern watchers nuts with its slowness.
Speak for yourself! Regardless of the merits of 2001, quotations from HAL's dialogue are instantly recognisable to the point of cliché (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=59) more than 40 years after the movie was released. I can't think of anything that Data or C3PO said that has the same recognition now, and we'll have to wait to determine how much they're remembered after 40 years. Actually, the only other AI/robot lines I can think of that approach HAL's for recognition in pop culture would be "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!"
What was Pintsize gonna say there? Sounded like he was going for the Starwolf meme but then they threw me off with Space Odyssey.

Regarding Winslowe I think we're all most comfortable in a certain type of body. The boyfriendbot either didn't meet his tastes, or contradicted some part of his self identity, or who knows what? Either way being able to just transfer to a more appropriate body probably does simplify that whole matter.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 23 Aug 2011, 09:24
The Starwolf quote from Starfox is derived from 2001 That's why it was funny, it was already in everyone's brain. All that Pintsize was going to finish with was "do that."

I know no quotes of Marvin, just that he was depressed- and I don't think I'd know even that if I wasn't interested in scifi and getting around to the Hitchhikers Guide someday.

Other widely known 2001 quotes include "good morning Dave," "open the pod bay doors, HAL," and "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." It also gave us a lot of indelible imagery, like the monolith, the protohumans fighting, bone becomes spaceship match cut, Dave's helmet cam, and probably some other stuff, but aside from HAL's optical sensor they don't have much to do with AI.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 23 Aug 2011, 09:31
Wow. That actually is pretty impressive. I didn't realize all that came from that movie. "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." in particular I would not have assumed to have any particular origin. Just something you say in those types of situations.

Sounds like whether or not HAL is famous or recognizable, it was at the very least very culturally influential.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 23 Aug 2011, 10:01
The crazy thing is how right after you watch the movie.. you start to see so many programs doing some parodies or tributes to that movie. Simpsons for example.

Gangler: If you want you can try to see if you recognise one here (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film))
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Aug 2011, 10:17
Another "modern watcher" who loves 2001 here, although sadly, plenty of people don't.  But it's hardly a modern thing, it wasn't even nominated for Best Picture.  At least Citizen Kane had Hearst to blame for it not winning, but at least that was nominated.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 10:56
Other widely known 2001 quotes include "good morning Dave," "open the pod bay doors, HAL," and "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." It also gave us a lot of indelible imagery, like the monolith, the protohumans fighting, bone becomes spaceship match cut, Dave's helmet cam, and probably some other stuff, but aside from HAL's optical sensor they don't have much to do with AI.
It had style, no doubt about that. I like those aspects, but I don't like it as a film because... I can't really get a handle on the narrative.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 10:59
Gosh, these recent strips are beginning to remind me more and more of Chobits. Has anybody else watched that series?
I have. The comparison is pretty hard to miss for anyone who is aware of both. I think I prefer the QC take on it though.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 23 Aug 2011, 11:53
Other widely known 2001 quotes include "good morning Dave," "open the pod bay doors, HAL," and "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." It also gave us a lot of indelible imagery, like the monolith, the protohumans fighting, bone becomes spaceship match cut, Dave's helmet cam, and probably some other stuff, but aside from HAL's optical sensor they don't have much to do with AI.

And don't forget "Thus spake Zarathustra", the famous opening music.  Not to mention watching the space station revolve to the Blue Danube waltz...

it was a revolutionary movie, as were a lot of other Kubrick works. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 23 Aug 2011, 11:59
Of course, not only the quotes but also the visuals are imfluential. I'll bet that all the people (except those who saw the movie) were totally "wtf?" when this episode of The Simpsons was showed:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MryQii-dvu8/RcfJC7hG1pI/AAAAAAAAAM4/HH6jfzgzCgQ/s400/Deep_Space_Homer%2BStarchild.GIF)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 23 Aug 2011, 12:20
I know no quotes of Marvin,

Not even something along the lines of: "I've got this pain in the diodes down my left side"
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Aug 2011, 12:39
Quote from: Marvin the Paranoid Android
The first ten million years were the worst, and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of decline.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Arancaytar on 23 Aug 2011, 14:37
I have a funny feeling we've already seen Momo's choice of chassis... (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658)

Note that the one in her daydream is even more "human" than the models we've seen so far. No visible seams at the joints, etc. It's quite likely those exist as well, though it's probably difficult to buy a chassis like that without causing some raised eyebrows.

(On that note, I wonder how human/AI relationships are seen in society. I mean, it sounds like that actually happened (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1506).)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Aug 2011, 15:21
What is really making me feel old is that I remember seeing 2010 in theaters - and thinking that it was the better of the two movies.

Anyways: our little saleslady needs to NEVER run into Pintsize. Or bad things would happen. Bad things, man.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 23 Aug 2011, 16:24
2010 in theaters - and thinking that it was the better of the two movies.
Huh... And I thought there were opinion that just didn't exist. I was wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 23 Aug 2011, 16:30
What sticks with me about "2001": Humans will do their damndest to be banal in the midst of grandeur ("Let's see ... ham, ham, ham ...") Also, HAL was the most human of all the characters.

What sticks with me about "2010": Roy Scheider is sticking his elbow into a rocket nozzle.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: rje on 23 Aug 2011, 16:38
Other widely known 2001 quotes include "good morning Dave," "open the pod bay doors, HAL," and "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." It also gave us a lot of indelible imagery, like the monolith, the protohumans fighting, bone becomes spaceship match cut, Dave's helmet cam, and probably some other stuff, but aside from HAL's optical sensor they don't have much to do with AI.
It had style, no doubt about that. I like those aspects, but I don't like it as a film because... I can't really get a handle on the narrative.

This is how I feel, tho I wanna more say I don't like it as a film to watch. I saw the whole thing, loved a lot of the visuals, disliked others, generally could kind of follow what it was trying to say, but on a whole, as a whole, I really just couldn't get into it, y'know? I found it draggy and tiring to watch. I can totally admit there are films that are brilliant in construction but I still just don't like watching them.
I freaking love A Clockwork Orange though.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 23 Aug 2011, 16:55
It had style, no doubt about that. I like those aspects, but I don't like it as a film because... I can't really get a handle on the narrative.

Deliciously ironic. Did you mean to do that?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 23 Aug 2011, 17:08
What is really making me feel old is that I remember seeing 2010 in theaters - and thinking that it was the better of the two movies.
2010 isn't a bad movie, it just suffers by comparison with 2001. 2001 is a flawed masterpiece, while 2010 is merely competent. And was Roy Scheider the Nicholas Cage of his generation, or what?

2010 airbrushes-out non-white people much more obviously too. Kubric merely changed the name of HAL's creator/trainer, a character who never appears on-screen, from Chandra to Langley. 2010 keeps the Chandra character (explicitly and relevantly Indian in the book), but casts a white actor to play him (because of course there are no Indian actors... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cinema)). 2010 also airbrushes the entire Chinese space-mission out of the film. Scientific knowledge and space exploration were still strictly for people of European descent.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 23 Aug 2011, 17:35
Leda is Skynet
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: SirDudley on 23 Aug 2011, 17:39
*Been busy for the past few days. Cut me some slack for catching up*

Man, A.I. really is a crapshoot in QC. Let's hope this doesn't go down the Clinton path. At least this new character isn't trying to dry-hump Marigold's leg or something. Yet.

I only ask Jeph to resist the breast missile add-on for Momo's new chassis. The electricity is perfectly fine.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 23 Aug 2011, 17:43
@Akima ... yeah, I wish Hyams hadn't done that; the Chinese space mission was the best part of the book for me, from the sheer audacity of it as described (we need huge water pumps? Get them from the firehouse!) to Dr. Chang's final, fatal report on the Europan creature. From what I remember reading about the movie, the decision to "airbrush it out" was made early on, to the point they never seriously considered what the spaceship Tsien should look like, except for one faintly humorous scribble of a Chinese-food take-out box with a rocket motor attached.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 23 Aug 2011, 18:03
I liked 2010 -- both the movie and the book.  The movie was definitely not Kubrick but it had its own deliberate pace that was a lot more studied than a lot of the usual sci-fi space opera BS. 

IIRC, they also played up the Cold War aspect of things a lot more in the movie.  How ancient that seems: who woulda thought that the Soviet Union would fall about fifteen years before 2010. 



Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 18:38
It had style, no doubt about that. I like those aspects, but I don't like it as a film because... I can't really get a handle on the narrative.

Deliciously ironic. Did you mean to do that?
If it was clever, of course. Now, what did I do?

In all seriousness I don't know the film well enough to have intended any intelligent wordplay.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Aug 2011, 18:59
You mentioned the narrative of a film that's about 90% silent.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 23 Aug 2011, 19:22
The narrative require sound now? I think you might be confusing it with narration.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 19:30
The narrative require sound now? I think you might be confusing it with narration.
While I agree with you, he also does have a point that the concept of "narrative" is largely foreign to 2001.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 23 Aug 2011, 19:35
Is it? That surprises me. The concept is pretty all inclusive. Does it not tell a story at all?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Aug 2011, 19:59
The narrative require sound now? I think you might be confusing it with narration.
Yeah, I uh...I don't have an excuse for that.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 20:36
Is it? That surprises me. The concept is pretty all inclusive. Does it not tell a story at all?
I would say it does not. I would even say it makes no attempt to do so. Instead it attempts to present a series of visually stunning sequences which can be interpreted in conjunction with the novel to form a story, but no story is inherently present in the film.

No doubt many would disagree.

I will acknowledge that several individual scenes do effectively tell part of a story, but no overall story is formed and I genuinely believe it was not the intention that one should be. Regardless of this I still consider it a directorial masterpiece. I believe Kubrick achieved what he set out to do, which appears to have been the creation of an experience rather than a narrative.

There's an audience for that.

It just isn't me.

Aww... my postcount increased, and I'm not an Emoticontraindication anymore.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 23 Aug 2011, 20:39
they never seriously considered what the spaceship Tsien should look like, except for one faintly humorous scribble of a Chinese-food take-out box with a rocket motor attached.
Ha fucking ha! I didn't know about that thigh-slapper, but it would be par for the course. After all, the spaceship is named after a Chinese scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen) treated disgracefully by the US government.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 23 Aug 2011, 20:40
Wow. That actually is pretty impressive. I didn't realize all that came from that movie. "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." in particular I would not have assumed to have any particular origin. Just something you say in those types of situations.

Sounds like whether or not HAL is famous or recognizable, it was at the very least very culturally influential.
I'm sure that similar words were said many times in the past (as well as many apologies for not being able to do something), but that specific phrasing is now nearly almost always used as a reference to 2001 in media.

Not even something along the lines of: "I've got this pain in the diodes down my left side?"
Nope.

Other widely known 2001 quotes include "good morning Dave," "open the pod bay doors, HAL," and "This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it." It also gave us a lot of indelible imagery, like the monolith, the protohumans fighting, bone becomes spaceship match cut, Dave's helmet cam, and probably some other stuff, but aside from HAL's optical sensor they don't have much to do with AI.
And don't forget "Thus spake Zarathustra", the famous opening music.  Not to mention watching the space station revolve to the Blue Danube waltz...
I didn't, thus "include" and "like" (as bolded) to indicate this was a nonexhaustive list. I just wanted to present a couple more quotes and imagery to jog the memory of references to it that had never been recognized as references at all.

Well, I know "Thus spake Zarathustra" and "Blue Danube" but don't associate them with 2001, not having seen it. (I watched the beginning once because people rave about it, and was so underwhelmed by the "bone becomes spaceship match cut" that I gave up.)
Ah, the insidious hype backlash. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HypeBacklash)

Ha fucking ha! I didn't know about that thigh-slapper, but it would be par for the course. After all, the spaceship is named after a Chinese scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen) treated disgracefully by the US government.
Freaky. Not two weeks ago I read his obituary that I had cut out of a newspaper (ikr?) and saved long ago, in the course of checking my folder of interesting articles to read and tossing ones that were no longer interesting. It was one of only four or five pieces that I read in its entirety and it was very frank about how badly we screwed him over. At least he didn't end up like Turing (in before mudslinging about who did what to which important scientist to screw them over.)



Regarding comments concerning its entertainment value, I admit regarding it as plodding and sometimes incomprehensible. My father, who has read the book, says that most of what's confusing about the movie is explained by the book and vice versa. I have neither seen the entire movie in one sitting nor read the book (I have it but have not yet read it) to confirm the veracity of that claim. I have however read up on it and  seen all the parts at one time or another, so I recognize most cultural references that I encounter.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 20:51
My father, who has read the book, says that most of what's confusing about the movie is explained by the book is explained by the movie and vice versa. I have neither seen the entire movie in one sitting nor read the book (I have it but have not yet read it) to confirm the veracity of that claim. I have however read up on it and  seen all the parts at one time or another, so I recognize most cultural references that I encounter.
I can not only confirm what your father has told you, but I can state that Arthur C. Clarke fully intended that this be so. I've seen clear statements to this effect in an interview. I wish I could offer a link, it is really rather fascinating. The relationship of book to film, and film to book changed somewhat during development, but the book cannot properly be called the original version, or the source material. They were developed in parallel.

By the end of the project, the film and the book had been consciously crafted to complement each other.  You only get the full picture by taking both in conjunction. This is part of why I find the film so unsatisfying. I also don't have much appreciation for scenes of vast visual beauty which are not relevant to the plot, so... that explains my distaste for the film. For me it just doesn't tell a story. It merely works as a visual and auditory companion work to the novel. Mind you, although it approaches blasphemy for me to say it, even if the narrative of film and book were presented in medium and style I could enjoy more, I find that Clarke has covered much of the same ground and in a more satisfying way in his other books.

At the same time I have an immense admiration for Clarke and I can't help but admire the work even if I don't enjoy it.

It's an important and fascinating work, but I'll never be able to appreciate it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 23 Aug 2011, 21:04
My father, who has read the book, says that most of what's confusing about the movie is explained by the book is explained by the movie and vice versa. I have neither seen the entire movie in one sitting nor read the book (I have it but have not yet read it) to confirm the veracity of that claim. I have however read up on it and  seen all the parts at one time or another, so I recognize most cultural references that I encounter.
I can not only confirm what your father has told you, but I can state that Arthur C. Clarke fully intended that this be so. I've seen clear statements to this effect in an interview. I wish I could offer a link, it is really rather fascinating. The relationship of book to film, and film to book changed somewhat during development, but the book cannot properly be called the original version, or the source material. They were developed in parallel.
That's what my dad said, although I didn't specifically mention he did. Mind you I didn't disbelieve my dad, but he taught me to confirm what even he says before claiming it as fact, so outside confirmation is still cool. That's what the veracity bit was about.

By the end of the project, the film and the book had been consciously crafted to complement each other.  You only get the full picture by taking both in conjunction. This is part of why I find the film so unsatisfying. I also don't have much appreciation for scenes of vast visual beauty which are not relevant to the plot, so... that explains my distaste for the film. For me it just doesn't tell a story. It merely works as a visual and auditory companion work to the novel. Mind you, although it approaches blasphemy for me to say it, even if the narrative of film and book were presented in medium and style I could enjoy more, I find that Clarke has covered much of the same ground and in a more satisfying way in his other books.

At the same time I have an immense admiration for Clarke and I can't help but admire the work even if I don't enjoy it.

It's an important and fascinating work, but I'll never be able to appreciate it.
See, I disagree. A movie soundtrack can still be awesome without the movie, Garfield is even better when Garfield isn't speaking, and I've seen performance art pieces with music or vocals that would still be compelling without them. I figure at some point I'll read the book, then sit down and watch the movie while reading the book and get the full experience. Until then, I will probably never watch the movie as a whole piece, but I can still appreciate the separate scenes and join them in my mind with the silent parts on fast forward.

But hey, everyone experiences things differently and your experiences are just as valid as mine.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: musicalsoul on 23 Aug 2011, 21:34
You know.... I saw 2001 at Wal-mart for five dollars last week and I was very tempted to get it, cause I've never seen it, and I've always heard it was amazing.

I ended up not getting it, but all this talk on here about it, just makes me wish that I had.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 22:01
See, I disagree. A movie soundtrack can still be awesome without the movie, Garfield is even better when Garfield isn't speaking, and I've seen performance art pieces with music or vocals that would still be compelling without them. I figure at some point I'll read the book, then sit down and watch the movie while reading the book and get the full experience. Until then, I will probably never watch the movie as a whole piece, but I can still appreciate the separate scenes and join them in my mind with the silent parts on fast forward.

But hey, everyone experiences things differently and your experiences are just as valid as mine.
When I listen to music I'm normally doing something else as well. What gets to me about 2001 as a movie is that I have to just sit through all this stuff. I don't don't do very well at that. I like books and comics because I can advance them at my own pace. I get by with most visual media to the extent that the pace keeps up with my boredom threshold. Not everyone is the same, nor should they be. That's why the film doesn't work for me. It probably does work for people who are more comfortable with a slow pace.

That said, I consider the ideas behind 2001 to be somewhat of a retread of Clarke's earlier work. Not to the extent that he is telling the same story, but certainly I feel that the same thought processes gave rise to this as to some of his earlier works. Accordingly I believe that 2001 is notably primarily for the stunning visuals, which is the one level on which I really don't enjoy it.

That's a bit convoluted, but do you follow what I'm saying? As a story, I don't consider it a great work. Certainly not the author's magnum opus. As a film, it stands above other films, I can recognise this even though I don't enjoy it. Before I started to post about it here, I wasn't entirely cognizant of my own feelings regarding the film, so that was interesting...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 23 Aug 2011, 22:24
Is it? That surprises me. The concept is pretty all inclusive. Does it not tell a story at all?
I would say it does not. I would even say it makes no attempt to do so. Instead it attempts to present a series of visually stunning sequences which can be interpreted in conjunction with the novel to form a story, but no story is inherently present in the film.

No doubt many would disagree.

I will acknowledge that several individual scenes do effectively tell part of a story, but no overall story is formed and I genuinely believe it was not the intention that one should be. Regardless of this I still consider it a directorial masterpiece. I believe Kubrick achieved what he set out to do, which appears to have been the creation of an experience rather than a narrative.

There's an audience for that.

It just isn't me.

Aww... my postcount increased, and I'm not an Emoticontraindication anymore.



Well the fact that such a case can even be made is certainly telling, and the info about the book definitely paints a picture. Fair enough.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: 0kamisama on 23 Aug 2011, 22:36
One question pops into mind...

Why do all the other AIs have similar chassis to the one Pintsize has? I thought he had a rare military grade model (with a super laser, since removed), and even Marigold mentioned that the chassis looked strange in her debut comic. Is this a combination Apple store/military surplus warehouse?

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing Momo-tan 2.0! Maybe Jeph will save that for the big 2K!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 23 Aug 2011, 22:45
That's a bit convoluted, but do you follow what I'm saying?
Yep.

Before I started to post about it here, I wasn't entirely cognizant of my own feelings regarding the film, so that was interesting...
It's often the case that however much we may have mulled them over in our minds, our ideas and conceptions still change greatly when expressed.

Why do all the other AIs have similar chassis to the one Pintsize has? I thought he had a rare military grade model (with a super laser, since removed), and even Marigold mentioned that the chassis looked strange in her debut comic. Is this a combination Apple store/military surplus warehouse?
His chassis is just an ordinary default, like the way that most computer towers look virtually the same. The military thing was the equivalent of making what looks like an ordinary tower, but has a titanium case and liquid cooling with LEDs/ a frikkin laser beam. He still has the titanium case, but no piping and lights.

... I now claim Piping and Lights as a band name.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Vurogj on 23 Aug 2011, 22:46
Re: The signs in the background.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 23 Aug 2011, 22:49
I had just hit the button to ask about that and got the red notification that someone had posted. Thank you!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TRVA123 on 23 Aug 2011, 22:53
Obviously Charlotte is kept back by the toasters because she is a Cylon.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 23 Aug 2011, 22:53
Oh god, the references! The nerdy, nerdy references! Eye spye a Cylon (toasters), a Geth (from Mass Effect), Izumi is from Lucky Star, and I just realized that the shirt Marigold's been wearing says XKCD. What's the red thing in the third panel? And are the only differences between the deluxe and basic models hair heatsink and skin casing color changes and a bigger rack rack?

So, they really are looking for a human-sized one. Please tell me they get the one from Momo's Sven fantasy, please please pleaaaaaaaase?  :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 23 Aug 2011, 23:03
They ask for "more personality", and get one with a bigger rack-mount server? The only difference between the regular and the deluxe is the (ahem) buffer size?

Also, what's with Charlotte / the last chassis design's hair?

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 23 Aug 2011, 23:07
... What's the red thing in the third panel? ...

You mean the red robot? That would be Red Robot from Diesel Sweeties (http://www.dieselsweeties.com/).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 23 Aug 2011, 23:20
Being picky, I would have thought the personality was an aspect of the installed AI rather than the chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: bicostp on 23 Aug 2011, 23:25
Eye spye a Cylon (toasters)

Something else (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brave_Little_Toaster_(film)) comes to mind as well...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: St.Clair on 23 Aug 2011, 23:49
[Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.]
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 24 Aug 2011, 00:10
Naked Waffles win ! Naked Waffles win ! WE WILL TOTALLY GET NAKED WAFFLES ! :-D

Nothing much to say about todays Comic, it was funny.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 24 Aug 2011, 00:15
2001 isnt exactly a very enjoyable movie, it drives modern watchers nuts with its slowness.
Speak for yourself! Regardless of the merits of 2001, quotations from HAL's dialogue are instantly recognisable to the point of cliché (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=59) more than 40 years after the movie was released. I can't think of anything that Data or C3PO said that has the same recognition now, and we'll have to wait to determine how much they're remembered after 40 years. Actually, the only other AI/robot lines I can think of that approach HAL's for recognition in pop culture would be "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!"
Meh.

That it drove me nuts for its slowness doesnt mean I havent watched it.

Either way you're disgressing because the argument is about who is the most famous AI and HAL 9000 definitely isnt it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 24 Aug 2011, 00:20
[Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.]
All of the above, and... Is that a Transformer in the bottom right of the last panel? Is Charlotte's super-neat hair a shout-out to AI? And Charlotte demonstrates that Pintsize is not the only robot filled with mischief.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 24 Aug 2011, 00:37
Being picky, I would have thought the personality was an aspect of the installed AI rather than the chassis.

Referring to the chassis, I think she means 'personality' in the sense of 'individuality' rather than in the sense that applies exclusively to a person/character. It is pretty common to refer to inanimate objects as having some 'personality' in the former sense.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 24 Aug 2011, 00:54
I don't know what to make out of the fact that I noticed the most prominent difference between the regular and the de luxe models in the first panel only on my third reading. :psyduck:

My favorite fictional AI? R. Daneel Olivaw, of course. HAL is ok, I guess. Ahead of the StarWar simpletons, but behind Marvin. 2001? I never saw the movie, and the book is relatively old meaning that I was capable of only reading a Finnish translation at the time, so no HAL quotes from me. Or may be one from 2061 (or was it 3001?). "Remember us, if we fail to download" (HAL and Bowman had merged personalities at the time, hence the plural pronoun).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 24 Aug 2011, 00:56
I don't know what to make out of the fact that I noticed the most prominent difference between the regular and the de luxe models in the first panel only on my third reading. :psyduck:

I am so glad it wasn't just me. I almost posted asking why the heck the deluxe model's only difference was hair colour...

I'm not going to read much into it in my case... it almost certainly just means that my observational skills are crap.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: idontunderstand on 24 Aug 2011, 01:12
I don't know what to make out of the fact that I noticed the most prominent difference between the regular and the de luxe models in the first panel only on my third reading. :psyduck:

I didn't notice until I read this!  :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 24 Aug 2011, 01:32
Perhaps we are enlightened males, those of us who are male.  :angel:

I wonder if Charlotte and Leda get to use those chassis at work, but transfer into their own equivalent-of-Ford-Escort chassis for going home. Does Charlotte switch herself among the store's chassis as a prank? I can see where she might find that fun.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Odzs on 24 Aug 2011, 02:04
It's been said already but GETH!!

Time for Steve to relive his action-packed past. Steve Shepard! And how about Faye Williams and Marten Alenko?... Anyone?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 24 Aug 2011, 02:05
Charlotte looks really cute on the last panel.... Hopefully this won't sound creepy  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 24 Aug 2011, 02:11
Perhaps we are enlightened males, those of us who are male.  :angel:
Speak for yourself. For all my erudition I'm also an inveterate lecher and no plans to change.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Doc on 24 Aug 2011, 02:33
Yay for the Konata Izumi model.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jc2011 on 24 Aug 2011, 03:41
Also, what's with Charlotte / the last chassis design's hair?

I'm not 100% sure, but my first thought was that it is the hairstyle from Jude Law's character in the movie A.I.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: mike837go on 24 Aug 2011, 04:45
I'd say we ship Charlottte and Pintsize...

MAYHEM ENSUES!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 24 Aug 2011, 04:51
But Momo seems to have grown tired of the Japanese schoolgirl look? That's a little bit suprising given that she was designed to appeal to the otaku. A brave little explorer of possibilities! Wonder what she wants? I guess we will learn later this week.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 24 Aug 2011, 04:57
She's gonna want the Number 8 model (comes with Tahmoh Penikett's phone number).

The toaster reference did it for me - my wife and I have been introducing our 12 year old to BSG....
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 24 Aug 2011, 05:13
I am going to miss that kawaii little chassis if it goes.

I am hoping this arc will end with Momo realising she is happy just the way she is, after all. :)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 24 Aug 2011, 05:17
Seconded.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 24 Aug 2011, 05:51
Just noticed Momo clinging to Marigold's arm in the last panel...too cute.

I hope she doesn't get a chassis like the sales-robot has; I think it'd be a little awkward for Marigold to have what essentially amounts to another adult woman living in her room with her. I mean they probably don't have the space for it in that apartment. And what will Angus think?

(sorry if this point's been brought up already; didn't feel like double-checking the thread)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 24 Aug 2011, 06:15
My favorite solution would Marigold getting a chassis like she had in this comic (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658). That one was really cute.



Oh, and I didnt get what "de luxe" was about either. I think its mostly because those titts are simply grossly oversized. Marigold already has the biggest size that is still looking natural and the "de luxe" model has like 2-3 times bigger ones. Thats nothing thats still attractive.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: kent_eh on 24 Aug 2011, 06:23
Eye spye a Cylon (toasters)

Something else (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brave_Little_Toaster_(film)) comes to mind as well...
Actually, the first thing that I thought when I saw the toasters was Red Dwarf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Red_Dwarf_characters#Talkie_Toaster)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Sylentknight on 24 Aug 2011, 06:28
I can understand how Momo is done with the whole Japanese schoolgirl look, (not to mention the scary realities as to why that model is VERY popular). Regardless of her maturity the schoolgirl look hinders her efforts at being taken seriously, and while a Miko design may be cute, it wouldn't help her case. Then of course there is the question of gender, but I don't think Jeph will change that.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: VonKleist on 24 Aug 2011, 06:33
Gah.. don't wanna be nitpicking like this, but wouldn't a robot body like that consume massive amounts of energy? Providing it doesn't run on some kind of atomic battery.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 24 Aug 2011, 06:36
Also, what's with Charlotte / the last chassis design's hair?

I'm not 100% sure, but my first thought was that it is the hairstyle from Jude Law's character in the movie A.I.
That would certainly explain why my first thought was how odd that style looks on a fembot.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: philharmonic on 24 Aug 2011, 06:42
Hurray for naked waffles ! Somewhere on the other page someone mentioned Momo's Sven fantasy. Now I'm thinking that might work or perhaps a mix of that and Fartchan.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 24 Aug 2011, 06:43
Gah.. don't wanna be nitpicking like this, but wouldn't a robot body like that consume massive amounts of energy? Providing it doesn't run on some kind of atomic battery.


Processing power is no more than in the little robots, so the majority of that huge torso is battery storage and power recovery hardware so that unplugged operating time is maximized...

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it sounds good.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 24 Aug 2011, 07:14
Gah.. don't wanna be nitpicking like this, but wouldn't a robot body like that consume massive amounts of energy? Providing it doesn't run on some kind of atomic battery.


Processing power is no more than in the little robots, so the majority of that huge torso is battery storage and power recovery hardware so that unplugged operating time is maximized...

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it sounds good.

He probably means it would be extremely expensive to power the robot each day, unless we're assuming energy in the QC world is much cheaper.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: mike837go on 24 Aug 2011, 07:21
Gah.. don't wanna be nitpicking like this, but wouldn't a robot body like that consume massive amounts of energy? Providing it doesn't run on some kind of atomic battery.
Processing power is no more than in the little robots, so the majority of that huge torso is battery storage and power recovery hardware so that unplugged operating time is maximized...
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it sounds good.
He probably means it would be extremely expensive to power the robot each day, unless we're assuming energy in the QC world is much cheaper.
Not only cheeper, but plentiful as well. Think of the energy available to the Vespabot? Or Pintsize's (now deactiveated) laser?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: bmac4417 on 24 Aug 2011, 07:22
Okay, so I figured out what the second sign (on the right) says:
"The Idoru HandMaiden Series
 Four Great AnthroPC Models
 Four Great Prices
 Ask a Sales Associate Today"
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 24 Aug 2011, 07:41
Being picky, I would have thought the personality was an aspect of the installed AI rather than the chassis.
She meant aesthetically. Cars have personality for example, whether it's a homey van or a lean mean sports car. A home can feel cramped or airy. A chassis can be bland and uninteresting. Tova explained it well too.

Either way you're disgressing because the argument is about who is the most famous AI and HAL 9000 definitely isnt it.
And you base that well supported analysis on... Seriously, don't use absolutes on a matter of opinion. Also, it's a discussion, not an argument.

Wait, didn't I promise myself a while back I'd stop reading your comments because you didn't put much thought into them? *Checks archive of my comments* No, but I sure have ridiculed you a lot for it. I should probably stop.

Is that a Transformer in the bottom right of the last panel? Is Charlotte's super-neat hair a shout-out to AI?
I just saw a wheel, and a hair style seems like a really vague way to make a reference.

She's gonna want the Number 8 model (comes with Tahmoh Penikett's phone number).

The toaster reference did it for me - my wife and I have been introducing our 12 year old to BSG....
Tell us how he reacts when someone gets airlocked (yes pedants, it's a verb now. Battlestar Galactica made it one).  :-P

My favorite solution would Marigold getting a chassis like she had in this comic (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658). That one was really cute.

Oh, and I didn't get what "deluxe" was about either. I think its mostly because those tits are simply grossly oversized. Marigold already has the biggest size that is still looking natural and the "deluxe" model has like 2-3 times bigger ones. That's nothing that's still attractive.
No no, stopping now.

Something else (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brave_Little_Toaster_(film)) comes to mind as well...
Actually, the first thing that I thought when I saw the toasters was Red Dwarf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Red_Dwarf_characters#Talkie_Toaster)
i could have sworn the Brave Little Toaster was from the early 90's.

I can understand how Momo is done with the whole Japanese schoolgirl look, (not to mention the scary realities as to why that model is VERY popular). Regardless of her maturity the schoolgirl look hinders her efforts at being taken seriously, and while a Miko design may be cute, it wouldn't help her case. Then of course there is the question of gender, but I don't think Jeph will change that.
I don't think that she doesn't want to be a schoolgirl, she just doesn't want to be that particular character. Where did miko come in? I see no mention of Shinto shrine maidens.

That would certainly explain why my first thought was how odd that style looks on a fembot.
It's fine on a gynoid, it's just an old style that women today don't use. Darned if I know hair style names though- is it a bob?

Gah.. don't wanna be nitpicking like this, but wouldn't a robot body like that consume massive amounts of energy? Providing it doesn't run on some kind of atomic battery.
Processing power is no more than in the little robots, so the majority of that huge torso is battery storage and power recovery hardware so that unplugged operating time is maximized...
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it sounds good.
They probably have induction coils in their butts and/or backs and better and safer batteries than we do. They probably have induction pads all over the place, like we should have (cue examples and images of things with wired power in the QC verse.)

He probably means it would be extremely expensive to power the robot each day, unless we're assuming energy in the QC world is much cheaper.
Carl didn't mean that he didn't understand VonKliest, he meant that he wasn't sure his explanation worked. He understood the point: how do the human sized models stay active for extended periods of time, not how are they paid for. And it's not like energy is expensive for us.



I don't know how many times I looked it over before noticing the difference in bust size, but even if it was the first thing I noticed, it's a physical attribute so I'm not going to worry about it. It's not whether you notice it, it's whether you care. That's my enlightenment.

Oh damn, I'm doing my chain of responses thing again.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 24 Aug 2011, 07:51
Y'know, Charlotte, that's not a smart thing to do when your co-worker still has the launch codes.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: kent_eh on 24 Aug 2011, 08:21
When I first saw the chassis beside red Robot, I thought of this:
(http://www.apt613.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/metropolis_365.jpg)

It's clearly not the same, but I wonder what Momo would think of it?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Jedit on 24 Aug 2011, 08:21
I don't know what to make out of the fact that I noticed the most prominent difference between the regular and the de luxe models in the first panel only on my third reading. :psyduck:

If I were the memeing kind, this would be the point where I had some bad news for you.   :evil:

Honestly, I think Jeph missed a trick by there being any difference at all between the regular and deluxe chassis other than the expanded RAM [1] packs.  



[1] Random Access Mammary.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Blackjoker on 24 Aug 2011, 08:29
I wonder if the launch codes are brought up during performance review or when evaluating employee bonuses?

I actually wonder how diverse the forms are for the anthroPCs and what bells and whistles they might have internally. I also vaguely wonder if there is a kaiju themed antrhopc body (I know Momo wouldn't want it most likely but I am still curious).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 24 Aug 2011, 08:39
If there are essentially human-mimicking AI's out there, it would be totally possible for QC to go the Blade Runner/BSG route.  ANGUS IS A CYLON



Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Outgrabe on 24 Aug 2011, 08:41
With respect to Charlotte's hair--am I the only one who thought of this?

(http://i.imgur.com/s4b0k.jpg)

Oh Rachael, maybe you just needed a few more practical jokes to find happiness.

(Edit) Also, I find it a little ironic that the "deluxe model" idoru is more or less Momo's head on Marigold's body--and both hate it on sight!  (Maybe they are creeped out by the notion of being mixed together in that way . . . )
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Xader on 24 Aug 2011, 09:20
the Geth chassis!

For the love of God, choose the Geth chassis!!!  :lol:

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSubqKN-__axLb03OPJDDZ7TNk0TKwzjX1o6kiGX1UL1mZBLOg1)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 24 Aug 2011, 09:37
She's gonna want the Number 8 model (comes with Tahmoh Penikett's phone number).

The toaster reference did it for me - my wife and I have been introducing our 12 year old to BSG....
Tell us how he reacts when someone gets airlocked (yes pedants, it's a verb now. Battlestar Galactica made it one).  :-P


"He's dead now, isn't he?"

Explaining PTSD and its effects on Starbuck and Tigh was a lot more difficult.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Aug 2011, 11:14
Hannelore mentioned electricity costs as an issue when the Roomba family was living with her, so it's not negligible to the characters.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mad Cat on 24 Aug 2011, 11:24
So, before, she was the AI in a Naval submarine. Now, she's a fembot sales-whore. So, she went from being full of seamen to being full of... Nevermind.

Jeff needs to have a Motoko Kusanagi model body in the background next.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 24 Aug 2011, 12:00
But the Major is a human cyborg, not an AI, so if he did it would cause nerd rage.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 24 Aug 2011, 12:17
But I thought the Major was entirely fabricated (from the opening credits of the original movie), and it's only her ghost that gets transferred from model to model.  It's the series (SAC and 2nd Gig) that establishes she's a cyborg, in that continuity anyway. 

</nerd cred>
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 24 Aug 2011, 12:33
But I thought the Major was entirely fabricated (from the opening credits of the original movie), and it's only her ghost that gets transferred from model to model.  It's the series (SAC and 2nd Gig) that establishes she's a cyborg, in that continuity anyway.  

</nerd cred>
That's just her body (or shell) being manufactured. One of the reasons they suspected the Puppet Master had taken the cyborg body that was spontaneously manufactured and hit by the truck was because there were no organics in it. That's why her merger with the Puppet Master is of interest, because she's a human feeling more and more artificial, and it's an AI that feels more and more natural, so if they merge, what will be the result? The manga, the first continuity with the two movies being second and the tv series being third, also regularly refers to her as a cyborg (and most of the first movie is based off of the first volume). After that the second movie and the series take some stuff from the manga but rarely so directly base a plot on it again and go off in different directions, thus their establishment as three separate universes.

Is there some kind of professorial emoticon I can use? I guess I'll just throw on glasses. 8-)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: soren121 on 24 Aug 2011, 12:48
So, since they have humanoid AnthroPCs...can you use them as sex toys? Pintsize would probably try.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: SirDudley on 24 Aug 2011, 13:16
Ah, shopping hijinks QC style. They never get old. I guess Jeph is spending time making Momo 2.0 something memorable.

Come to think of it, I think that's what Jeph is going to use #2000 for. The introduction of Momo 2.0 to the readers. Seriously, tomorrow will be Marigold and Momo picking out the upgrade, but we won't see it. Then #2000 will be the grand unveiling of the new chassis to everyone at CoD or something like that. Complete with Pintsize totally ruining the moment in his own personal style.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Roborat on 24 Aug 2011, 13:38
Awww, I liked the Izumi-04 model, however I am also quite fond of the current chassis.  How about a Ping model?  And is the pintsize chassis the default, base model then?  One question, in the last panel, what happened to Marigold's purse? It was on her left shoulder, and at least the strap should be visible.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 24 Aug 2011, 14:00
Heh, it's true. I didn't see that mistake before.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 24 Aug 2011, 14:12
Ah, shopping hijinks QC style. They never get old. I guess Jeph is spending time making Momo 2.0 something memorable.

Come to think of it, I think that's what Jeph is going to use #2000 for. The introduction of Momo 2.0 to the readers. Seriously, tomorrow will be Marigold and Momo picking out the upgrade, but we won't see it. Then #2000 will be the grand unveiling of the new chassis to everyone at CoD or something like that. Complete with Pintsize totally ruining the moment in his own personal style.
I can sort of imagine that... although honestly Marigold is a bit shy in groups to want to show it off to more than a couple of people at a time.

If they do go with this I hope that the punchline is how Momo 2.0 looks almost identical to the current version.

INB4Should'vebeenapointrelease.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Aug 2011, 14:38
Pintsize wants to be a sex toy: 396, 1602.

It's a logical extrapolation that some people in the QC world practice robosexuality, and that most other people would prefer to pretend they don't exist.

633 says that nobody's installed AI in Realdolls yet.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 24 Aug 2011, 15:00
in the last panel, what happened to Marigold's purse? It was on her left shoulder, and at least the strap should be visible.

In the previous panel it's coming off her shoulder, and so I guess she's dropped it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 24 Aug 2011, 15:22
Tell us how he reacts when someone gets airlocked (yes pedants, it's a verb now. Battlestar Galactica made it one).  :-P
If we're going to be pedantic, I heard "airlock" used as a verb by my petrol-head cousins and their friends (wrt fuel-system usually) well before BSG 2.0 came out.

And how about Faye Williams and Marten Alenko?...
Wouldn't that mean one of them has to die?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: 0kamisama on 24 Aug 2011, 15:53
I am going to miss that kawaii little chassis if it goes.

I am hoping this arc will end with Momo realising she is happy just the way she is, after all. :)

たぶんだね. It could go either way, either with both Momo and Marigold just enjoying the thrill of shopping and browsing, or Momo winding up with some added height and possibly some extra... "memory storage drives".
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 24 Aug 2011, 16:05
Well at least she keeps the Toasters amused.  Remember, bored Toasters turn feral and try to exterminate everyone.

I think Momo nixed the Izumi-04 'cause she is well aware of MariBear's Anime fixation.  It should be interesting to see what she ends up choosing in the end, or whether she decides to stay with her current chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 24 Aug 2011, 16:48
Pintsize wants to be a sex toy: 396, 1602.

You also forgot 1812 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1812).

Out there question: Hanners still has boyfriendbot, right? Maybe Hanner's dad modifies boyfriendbot for Momo?

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: The Duke on 24 Aug 2011, 17:07
The one next to Red Robot in panel 3 kind of reminded me of GLaDOS (from Portal), although I've just learned that it's from something else.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Somebody on 24 Aug 2011, 17:55
It's a logical extrapolation that some people in the QC world practice robosexuality, and that most other people would prefer to pretend they don't exist.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=428

Also, 611 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=611)/612 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=612)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 24 Aug 2011, 17:56
Well at least she keeps the Toasters amused.  Remember, bored Toasters turn feral and try to exterminate everyone.

So THAT explains it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 24 Aug 2011, 17:57
Pintsize wants to be a sex toy: 396, 1602.

You also forgot 1812 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1812).

I think EVERYONE wants to forget 1812. ESPECIALLY Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Aug 2011, 18:08
Do they call it 1812 because Pintsize made an overture to Marten?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Heliphyneau on 24 Aug 2011, 18:38
I am going to miss that kawaii little chassis if it goes.

I am hoping this arc will end with Momo realising she is happy just the way she is, after all. :)

I'm with you on this.   :wink:  I like Momo's current chassis because it's cute and more detailed than Pintsize's and Winslow's, but on the other hand . . . I'm enjoying this shopping arc, and it could be cool to see what new look Momo might choose.  Either way, it's a win.

Also, maybe the larger models can hold storage -- the non-computer kind.  Bonus pocky dispenser?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 24 Aug 2011, 18:46
Do they call it 1812 because Pintsize made an overture to Marten?

Oh my. You win ... something.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Aug 2011, 18:50
A pocky dispenser that could follow you around and anticipate your needs ... Marigirl would think that was a great idea until Momo went on a health kick and began feeding her celery instead.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 24 Aug 2011, 20:45
Better than eels, I suppose.
Also, looking at the poll, it occurs to me: DORA! DORA! DORA! should have been Strip 1941.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Sorflakne on 24 Aug 2011, 21:45
Charolette being kept in the "back by the toasters"...anyone else thinking she's a Cylon?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 24 Aug 2011, 21:48
Better than eels, I suppose.
Also, looking at the poll, it occurs to me: DORA! DORA! DORA! should have been Strip 1941.
Don't think about it. A long while I ago I did that, and got to wondering if 76 should have had someone blow up like a volcano. Or 1812. Or 1884. Or- augh, it's infected me again!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 24 Aug 2011, 22:40
Do they call it 1812 because Pintsize made an overture to Marten?

FTW.

Also, looking at the poll, it occurs to me: DORA! DORA! DORA! should have been Strip 1941.

I was thinking about that, too. Unfortunately the strip didn't come out on December 7th.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 24 Aug 2011, 23:35
Well at least she keeps the Toasters amused.  Remember, bored Toasters turn feral and try to exterminate everyone.

So THAT explains it.

Well, it's one frakin' explanation.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Swedish Chef on 25 Aug 2011, 00:39
They ask for "more personality", and get one with a bigger rack-mount server? The only difference between the regular and the deluxe is the (ahem) buffer size?

Also, what's with Charlotte / the last chassis design's hair?

If Pintsize is to be considered as norm; robots equates personality with huge...... tracks of lands.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 25 Aug 2011, 00:57
I'm begginning to like Charlotte now.

I hope Jeph brings her into the regular cast!

Who woulda thunk that the healthiest most well-adjusted character in QC would be a robot!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: westrim on 25 Aug 2011, 00:57
They ask for "more personality", and get one with a bigger rack-mount server? The only difference between the regular and the deluxe is the (ahem) buffer size?
Also, what's with Charlotte / the last chassis design's hair?
If Pintsize is to be considered as norm; robots equates personality with huge...... tracks of lands.
So ranchers must have lots of personality, and the US Government has the biggest personality of all!   :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: HiFranc on 25 Aug 2011, 01:00
I like Charlotte.  She's fun loving, adventurous and, as far as we can tell, harmless.  I think she would have a positive influence on the gang.

{edit}I agree with you, akronnick.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 25 Aug 2011, 01:02
A departure for Jeph, who said before that his AnthroPC strips tend to turn into human-oriented strips no matter how he starts them out.

Momo is consoling the toaster?

EDIT: If Leda and Charlotte get any more personality or history they will need wiki articles.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: slydon on 25 Aug 2011, 01:08
http://www.nemu-nemu.com/2011/02/25/rise_and_shine.php
Toasty!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: CompSarge on 25 Aug 2011, 01:13
Quote from: Jeph
I kind of want to make a t-shirt with the lil' toaster dude saying "I make bread FUN!"

YES PLZ

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 25 Aug 2011, 01:14
That should be a new catch-phrase.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Swedish Chef on 25 Aug 2011, 01:51
I'm begginning to like Charlotte now.

I hope Jeph brings her into the regular cast!

Who woulda thunk that the healthiest most well-adjusted character in QC would be a robot!

Ummmm.

If impersonating Julie Andrews is a sign of healthiness, what would one says about Pintsize rick-rolling?.

...Side trainwreck of thoughts, what would the other casts members best old song be?

Marten : Show must go on
Dora: I'm coming out
Sven: I like Big butts
Pintsize: thinking "We'll meet again" while riding a ubmeod..


Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Blackjoker on 25 Aug 2011, 02:14
I would like to say that Momo comforting the sad toaster is adorable. Also, "I make bread fun" for some reason is heard in my head with creepy voice.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Arancaytar on 25 Aug 2011, 02:40
With the "my LIFE! I'm ALIVE!" line, I was half expecting the musical number to be something else.

this was a triumph...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 25 Aug 2011, 02:45
Awwwww Charlotte is such a cute robot. It's almost depressing how she appreciates life more than I do. Gotta love panel 3.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pendrake on 25 Aug 2011, 02:50
For comic #1999... (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1999)  break out the Prince! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblt2EtFfC4)

1. Time to link the apocalyptic song about 1999 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqURWsdG8Iw)... sung in 1982... while listening to it in 2011... ...okay, I need to go lie down.

2. I also find Charlotte's embrace of Life very likable and infectious.  Not very good store worker etiquette, but very likable and infectious :) .

3. On a subtle artwork & script note, panel #4 really works since many musical numbers often begin with (or include) the overhead & rotating shot, in particular the musical number being parodied by Charlotte.  Really liked that bit of symmetry, intended or not.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 25 Aug 2011, 02:56
I can safely say this is the first time in my life I have ever wanted to hug a toaster.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 25 Aug 2011, 03:32
Hopefully it's explained why Charlotte still works there, because singing and scaring customers aren't part of her job description.  Currently she hurting her employer by being selfish.  If she can't take her job seriously then she needs to be put down, her memories lost in time like tears in rain.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 25 Aug 2011, 03:59
Or maybe they could just, you know, fire her...


This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?

Really?

Really?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: VonKleist on 25 Aug 2011, 04:01
Good lord

Momo and the toaster are worth a serious d´aaaawww  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: mike837go on 25 Aug 2011, 04:35
Hopefully it's explained why Charlotte still works there, because singing and scaring customers aren't part of her job description.  Currently she hurting her employer by being selfish.  If she can't take her job seriously then she needs to be put down, her memories lost in time like tears in rain.
We all have insufferable co-workers. They are annoying as hell, but somehow do their job well enough to stay employed.

I work in a small office (5 employees and 1 manager). Ask any of us, there are at least 4 annoying people working here!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 25 Aug 2011, 04:51
Jeez, talk about being extreme. Put her down? Why? She's not any more annoying that your average annoying co-worker... Will you kill that guy?
Of course not, you fire him if he's such a big trouble. Charlotte could get another job elsewhere.

Does she really need a job to stay "alive" btw?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 25 Aug 2011, 05:03
Is it just me or is it somewhat troubling to note that there is a bomb-disposal bot in the background here?  Is this something required by actual citizens, as opposed to just by law enforcement and the military?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 25 Aug 2011, 05:04
Hopefuly, we won't find out if the spines on these models start glowing for a while.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 25 Aug 2011, 05:16
Or maybe they could just, you know, fire her...


This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?

Really?

Really?

Yes, but for the same reason that if my vacuum wasn't working correctly I'd take it back and get a new one, or just throw it away.  I don’t subscribe to the notion that a robot life is as important as a human one, even if their advanced programming creates the illusion that they are. If I had to save the life of a human or a toaster, I would choose the human every time.

I also don’t understand the business model of freeing a slave, as the store currently operates on.  I could pay $30,000 to “buy” a robot, only to have it turn around the next day and say “Well, I’m outta here, bye!”.  Why am I buying a robot if I have no control over it?  More importantly, why are robots even sold if they have free will?  Isn’t that slavery?  Maybe I'm missing something here.

But enough of that, I’ve…I’ve got some bad news for you.  Your job was replaced by a robot today.  Ignore the fact that sentient beings are being mass produced and put into bodies that excel at whatever task they fancy, rendering any human currently working that job obsolete.  I’m glad you’re taking this so well.  The other millions of workers that got replaced, well, they aren’t taking it as well.  They don’t seem to like the fact that they can’t feed their families because companies have decided to employ artificially-produced beings with the same rights as humans that never age, never die, and can be upgraded cheaply.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Somebody on 25 Aug 2011, 05:53
QC hit the Singularity a couple of hundred strips ago. The machines are in charge now!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 25 Aug 2011, 05:55
I seem to recall that the industrial revolution was considered a bad thing by those who were put out of work at the time.  And for them it certainly was (and also for some who stayed at work, but in thrall to the machines they tended).  I guess the question is whether there is, or ever has been, a way for human society to progress without hurting some of its members - or perhaps we have to take a step back and re-evaluate the concept of "progress".
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 25 Aug 2011, 06:03
What Hanners mentioned back during the Singularity "arc" was that the AI's apparently like humans. Apparently, whoever the actual creator of AI's was (which, we may argue, may have been Hanner's dad), they included this bit of programming in their "core self".

The business model I see for an APC "shop" like Idoru is essentially a cross between Build-A-Bear and the Humane Society. If you want to "get" an APC companion, you stop by, sign some adoption forms and fork over some cash for a frame and accoutrements, then you get to take them home. If you already have an AI who wants a new or updated frame, you can shop for new ones - with the AI's approval and the store's assistance in the transition (which should only be needed by a USB cable and an uplink).

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 25 Aug 2011, 06:08
This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?
Robots arent sentient, though. Jephs robots act like no reallife robot would act. Computers are mathematical machines, if they "show feelings" then its because an algorithm tells them to, not because there is the slightest hint of feeling in the machine. Just as an example, reallife robots do not get bored. Ever. They compute pi to the ten power n number of digits just fine, without ever wondering why they're doing it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Black Sword on 25 Aug 2011, 06:16
I thank Monsieur Jacques for putting in visual form why sapient AI should never be allowed under any circumstances.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: kent_eh on 25 Aug 2011, 06:20
I would like to say that Momo comforting the sad toaster is adorable. Also, "I make bread fun" for some reason is heard in my head with creepy voice.

I knew it.  :psyduck:

It is Talkie Toaster!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec)  :-D

I toast, therefore I am.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: kent_eh on 25 Aug 2011, 06:28
 Isn’t that slavery?  

That's definitely PT410X's opinion (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1411).
But he's always been a little bitter.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 25 Aug 2011, 06:55
Somewhere in a twitter a while back, Jeph mentioned that he's into Iain Banks' The Culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture) novels.  

These comics, though, are beginning to make me think the QC-verse is the origins of the Culture in 2030's Northampton.  

That is, before First Contact, hyperspace travel...  


edited to add: zomg, westrim=Professor Otaku
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 25 Aug 2011, 07:21
Imagine an AI that is programmed to handle the air traffic control needed for the vast amount of flying car traffic we will have in the future. Or an AI designed to perform brain surgery.
We use free sentient beings for air traffic control and brain surgery today. The results are widely viewed as acceptable.

Humans are not likely to rebel against their status as humans. Even Jeph said things could get seriously Terminator-y if the AIs of his world could launch nukes.


Didn't Jeph say one time that the primary difference between QC and the real world was that in QC they lever lost that drive for exploration, which fueled most of the technological advancements? (I don't remember where he said this, but I want to say a news post, likely somewhere around the time of Hannelore's first mention of her father). This would make the divergence maybe something like 50 years ago. There may be some timeline you could guess at for APCs based on that and the fact that 20-30+ years ago a man bought/built a space station. This man may have been influential in AI tech, too, FWIW.

If that's what he said, he has a grossly oversimplified view of the difficulties of space travel. It's not that we lost interest it's that orbital velocity is incredibly hard and escape velocity is even harder. Until a breakthrough in propulsion or materials comes along we're going to be stuck on one planet.



Finally, kudos for the well-placed Spongebob reference.

Thank you very, very much.  :-D


Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 25 Aug 2011, 07:40
Didn't Jeph say one time that the primary difference between QC and the real world was that in QC they lever lost that drive for exploration, which fueled most of the technological advancements? (I don't remember where he said this, but I want to say a news post, likely somewhere around the time of Hannelore's first mention of her father). This would make the divergence maybe something like 50 years ago. There may be some timeline you could guess at for APCs based on that and the fact that 20-30+ years ago a man bought/built a space station. This man may have been influential in AI tech, too, FWIW.

If that's what he said, he has a grossly oversimplified view of the difficulties of space travel. It's not that we lost interest it's that orbital velocity is incredibly hard and escape velocity is even harder. Until a breakthrough in propulsion or materials comes along we're going to be stuck on one planet.


You'd better tell that to Branson, Bigelow et al., people who are developing space capabilities on their own time and their own dime. It's possible in the QC verse the impetus for such development came earlier, and actually rode the post-Apollo wave people in our own universe thought would give us Pan Am space clippers, orbiting Howard Johnsons and board meetings on the Moon by, um, 2001.

Speaking of 2001, Arthur C. Clarke once noted, and I'm paraphrasing: A few hundred pounds of kerosene (costing a few bucks) will liberate enough energy to send a man to the moon. The fact it takes (here he cited the complexity and cost of a Saturn V and associated support machinery) means our technology could stand some work. Maybe, just maybe, that work was done in the QCverse, and on other fronts, too, which is why it has HannerDad Station, climate-controlling nanosatellites, THE ROBOT HAMSTER! and android salesgirls mangling show tunes, happy they're not stuck in a bank vault somewhere..
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Taigan on 25 Aug 2011, 07:53
The Brave Little Toaster was probably a very different movie in the QCverse.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 25 Aug 2011, 07:59
Is it? That surprises me. The concept is pretty all inclusive. Does it not tell a story at all?

It's very straightforward and simple.

Extraterrestrial super beings (acting through their monolith omni-machines) instill the spark of intelligence in proto humans, then stick two more monoliths in the Solar system in order to test us.

One is on the Moon since they know we'd go there first. The second they leave in orbit around Jupiter (or Saturn if you read the book). When a human makes it to the one in orbit around the gas giant they kidnap him, download his thoughts and memories, remake him into a super human and send him/it back to Earth.

On the trip to Jupiter the ship's computer succumbs to logical contradictions caused by executive meddling and tries to kill everyone. But it's ultimately a side issue.

That's it.



You'd better tell that to Branson, Bigelow et al., people who are developing space capabilities on their own time and their own dime.

I think physics does a much better job of making these points than I do. I think SpaceShipOne was very impressive for both of its flights. Nowhere near what Yuri Gagarin did 40 years earlier, but still not bad.

I'm looking forward to when SpaceShipTwo does ... something. It won't be reaching orbital velocity anyway, so calling it a spaceship is a little like calling a rowboat an ocean liner.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 25 Aug 2011, 08:22
This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?

Robots arent sentient, though. Jephs robots act like no reallife robot would act. Computers are mathematical machines, if they "show feelings" then its because an algorithm tells them to, not because there is the slightest hint of feeling in the machine. Just as an example, reallife robots do not get bored. Ever. They compute pi to the ten power n number of digits just fine, without ever wondering why they're doing it.

Uh well you can think what you want but it's been said explicitly that the robots in Jeph's universe (a good portion of them, anyway) are sentient. And pretty much everything in the strip regarding robots points to them being free thinkers with their own agendas. It's called FICTION. Things are allowed to be different from real life.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: sitnspin on 25 Aug 2011, 08:28
This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?
Robots arent sentient, though. Jephs robots act like no reallife robot would act. Computers are mathematical machines, if they "show feelings" then its because an algorithm tells them to, not because there is the slightest hint of feeling in the machine. Just as an example, reallife robots do not get bored. Ever. They compute pi to the ten power n number of digits just fine, without ever wondering why they're doing it.


You speak as if humans are any different. We are just organic machines. We operate on electrical signals and chemical reactions. How are we any different from robots except by degree of complexity?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 25 Aug 2011, 08:39
I think physics does a much better job of making these points than I do. I think SpaceShipOne was very impressive for both of its flights. Nowhere near what Yuri Gagarin did 40 years earlier, but still not bad.

I'm looking forward to when SpaceShipTwo does ... something. It won't be reaching orbital velocity anyway, so calling it a spaceship is a little like calling a rowboat an ocean liner.

You left out the et al. Bigelow lofted a demonstrator for an inflatable space hab (granted, on a Russian booster), Falcon has put a rocket up, and I know I'm leaving people out.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 25 Aug 2011, 08:49
Also, I forgot to mention in my last post - Calling it right now: Charlotte is evil. Marten et. al. are going to have to somehow fight her in the future.

I have no idea how or why that would happen, but I have a feeling.

But if/when it happens, remember who saw it coming.  8-)

/no life
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 25 Aug 2011, 09:11
Is it? That surprises me. The concept is pretty all inclusive. Does it not tell a story at all?

It's very straightforward and simple.

Extraterrestrial super beings (acting through their monolith omni-machines) instill the spark of intelligence in proto humans, then stick two more monoliths in the Solar system in order to test us.

One is on the Moon since they know we'd go there first. The second they leave in orbit around Jupiter (or Saturn if you read the book). When a human makes it to the one in orbit around the gas giant they kidnap him, download his thoughts and memories, remake him into a super human and send him/it back to Earth.

On the trip to Jupiter the ship's computer succumbs to logical contradictions caused by executive meddling and tries to kill everyone. But it's ultimately a side issue.

That's it.

Heh, thanks... I always have some sort of trouble when people say that the movie lacks any story or doesn't tell it very well. It's pretty damn simple in the movie, the slowness of it gives the impression that it doesn't tell any story though... Which is why I love that movie.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, this would haven been the best answer to that guy in another forum who claims that 2001 is not a movie "because it doesn't have a story, plot or anything in particular".
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 25 Aug 2011, 09:30

I also don’t understand the business model of freeing a slave, as the store currently operates on.  I could pay $30,000 to “buy” a robot, only to have it turn around the next day and say “Well, I’m outta here, bye!”.  Why am I buying a robot if I have no control over it?  More importantly, why are robots even sold if they have free will?  Isn’t that slavery?  Maybe I'm missing something here.

Jeph's explanation in the newspost is that the adoption fee is refunded if the AI walks out on you.

You have the kind of control over the AI that you would over a human in the same role. The cast exercises parental discipline over their AnthroPCs, for example Winslow not being allowed to watch television. Install one in your Navy submarine, and it has to follow military discipline.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Spectreofwar on 25 Aug 2011, 09:49

Yes, but for the same reason that if my vacuum wasn't working correctly I'd take it back and get a new one, or just throw it away.  I don’t subscribe to the notion that a robot life is as important as a human one, even if their advanced programming creates the illusion that they are. If I had to save the life of a human or a toaster, I would choose the human every time.


You weren't referring to a "this or that" scenario, though. Choosing to save a human life over a robot doesn't exactly equate to putting down a robot that seems to be less interested in it's work than it is simply living. If anything, it's even more heinous.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 25 Aug 2011, 10:02
I also don’t understand the business model of freeing a slave, as the store currently operates on.  I could pay $30,000 to “buy” a robot, only to have it turn around the next day and say “Well, I’m outta here, bye!”.  Why am I buying a robot if I have no control over it?
And yet people continue to have children.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 25 Aug 2011, 11:00
I also don’t understand the business model of freeing a slave, as the store currently operates on.  I could pay $30,000 to “buy” a robot, only to have it turn around the next day and say “Well, I’m outta here, bye!”.  Why am I buying a robot if I have no control over it?
And yet people continue to have children.

People have children because it's a part of them, among many other things.  However, from what you cited it isn't relevant since a child can not legally choose to head out into the world.  If found, it will be returned.  You do own your child until they are of age.


Yes, but for the same reason that if my vacuum wasn't working correctly I'd take it back and get a new one, or just throw it away.  I don’t subscribe to the notion that a robot life is as important as a human one, even if their advanced programming creates the illusion that they are. If I had to save the life of a human or a toaster, I would choose the human every time.


You weren't referring to a "this or that" scenario, though. Choosing to save a human life over a robot doesn't exactly equate to putting down a robot that seems to be less interested in it's work than it is simply living. If anything, it's even more heinous.

It doesn't matter the scenario.  I don't care if a talking toaster lives.  It is a robot.  It is equally as important to me as a normal toaster.  If I lived in thie QC world I would jailbreak my robot and have it do whatever I wanted.  It's my robot, I bought it, so I'll do with it what I want.  It's just hardware and software, that's all it is.   A blade of grass has more rights than a robot.


I also don’t understand the business model of freeing a slave, as the store currently operates on.  I could pay $30,000 to “buy” a robot, only to have it turn around the next day and say “Well, I’m outta here, bye!”.  Why am I buying a robot if I have no control over it?  More importantly, why are robots even sold if they have free will?  Isn’t that slavery?  Maybe I'm missing something here.

Jeph's explanation in the newspost is that the adoption fee is refunded if the AI walks out on you.

You have the kind of control over the AI that you would over a human in the same role. The cast exercises parental discipline over their AnthroPCs, for example Winslow not being allowed to watch television. Install one in your Navy submarine, and it has to follow military discipline.

Ok.  I still dont buy the adult-child relationship based on actions by the cast against Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Welu on 25 Aug 2011, 11:10
I would get a "I make bread FUN!" t-shirt.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: The Duke on 25 Aug 2011, 11:17
I would like to say that Momo comforting the sad toaster is adorable. Also, "I make bread fun" for some reason is heard in my head with creepy voice.

Agreed.

I hear it in the same voice as the turrets from Portal.

Oh MAN it would be hilarious to have Wheatley around (as long as you could switch the personality for a while sometimes) or the space core or the adventure core or AAAAH guys I play too much Portal.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Heliphyneau on 25 Aug 2011, 11:21
Just wanted to chime in and say I love that Momo's consoling the sad toaster in the final panel -- in fact, the whole thing with the toaster is hilarious, from "I make bread fun!" (yes, I would like that on a t-shirt please) to Charlotte tossing it and Leda resignedly getting ready to catch it, right to the ending commiseration.  Very silly and cute.  Charlotte's singing and joie de vivre was funny too, though she seems more the 'I enjoy life at the expense of others' type so far.  Wonder how many more chassis they have, and if Momo will do a try before you buy thing.  Guess we'll see soon.

And is that really a bomb-defuser bot in the background?  There's something about the, er, business end of that thing in the final panel that says "laser" (complete with air quotes).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 25 Aug 2011, 11:24
I also don’t understand the business model of freeing a slave, as the store currently operates on.  I could pay $30,000 to “buy” a robot, only to have it turn around the next day and say “Well, I’m outta here, bye!”.  Why am I buying a robot if I have no control over it?
And yet people continue to have children.

People have children because it's a part of them, among many other things.  However, from what you cited it isn't relevant since a child can not legally choose to head out into the world.  If found, it will be returned.  You do own your child until they are of age.
And yet they're hard to control and they will eventually head out on their own. The point was that people don't need a sound investment or good odds or control in order to "buy" something. Just needs to be an appealing option to them somehow.

If people are willing to cripple their finances and their quality of life for a kid they probably won't get along with, who may or may not take after them, who might not even come out healthy or possessed of a fully functional mind, and who will inevitably leave them even in the best case scenario then I'm sure they could be convinced to invest in a robot to keep them company which at the very least isn't terribly high on the upkeep.

Comparisons aren't perfect. If it matched in every way I'd just be reiterating the situation. The similarities are there. I suppose as you mention a mandatory trial period could work well. Neither party being allowed to break it off until they'd at least spend 10 years together or something like that, but I really don't get the impression the robots are meant to be that big a commitment, and it might even reduce some of the appeal if they were made to be so.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 25 Aug 2011, 12:08
This forum is the best.  Y'all are actually having a discussion on the ethics of human / AI interaction!

As for the whole 'children' argument -- kids get older; their minds and personalities develop.  With these last couple of strips, it makes it seem like AI's actually grow and develop, too -- which really does make it seem the QCverse has 'strong' AI. 

Personally, I can't quite buy into the whole 'strong AI' concept, no matter what.  All I can conceive of is a 'chinese wall' type AI -- good enough to fool us, but the computer has no 'soul' / 'spark' / 'ghost' / what-have-you.  Just enough of programmed responses to social stimuli to fool humans and even other AI's. 



Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 25 Aug 2011, 12:12
I would argue that we don't have what you describe there either.

And yeah, loving this week's discussion.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 25 Aug 2011, 12:35
You do own your child until they are of age.

No, that's not  how it is (unless you are somewhere that there is a trade in children, I suppose).

Quote
If I lived in the QC world I would...

...be a fish out of water.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 25 Aug 2011, 14:39
Charlotte

Progenitor of the Cylons.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: SirDudley on 25 Aug 2011, 14:50
Cute talking toaster is cute.

Welp, we have a singing sentient robot in a store in a mall adapting "Sound of Music" to her situation. Yep, it's Thursday.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Sylentknight on 25 Aug 2011, 15:10
Charlotte joining the gang could be interesting, however if Momo gets a adult size chassis then she is likely to also want to interact with everyone and may wish to "join" the gang. I can see Charlotte possibly joining the band. Traveling to gigs and interacting with the people therein could be exactly what she craves. She doesn't necessarily need to play. She could simply be in charge of set-up and sound checks. This of course begs the question to Jeph as to whether the QC world already has a Anthro-centric band or bands.

(I'll leave it to others to argue whether AI's are capable of original creativity or creativity that can be understood by humans.)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: idontunderstand on 25 Aug 2011, 15:27
Charlotte could be the singer for the band! Has anyone already said that? Oh gosh I can't be arsed to go back and check! What do I do?  :psyduck:

CURSE IT ALL I POST ANYWAY

CHARLOTTE COULD BE SINGER FOR DEATHMOLE!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 25 Aug 2011, 16:17
We know that Pintsize wants to play or be an instrument, so AnthroPC bands are imaginable.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 25 Aug 2011, 16:59
All I can conceive of is a 'chinese wall' type AI -- good enough to fool us, but the computer has no 'soul' / 'spark' / 'ghost' / what-have-you.  Just enough of programmed responses to social stimuli to fool humans and even other AI's.
The very existence of a "soul" is highly speculative. Historically the possession of a soul, or at least an equal soul to that possessed by the privileged observer, frequently has been denied by humans to other humans of the wrong race, wrong religion, or wrong gender for centuries, and this continues to this day. Attitudes regarding non-human sentients as property are pretty much identical to those of a white plantation owner toward his slaves in the 18th century, or many men towards their wifes today, and supported by much the same argument: "We are special because we are special; they are not special because they're not."
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kwark on 25 Aug 2011, 17:40
Charlotte, the manager said no more circuit bending your sensors with acid !
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: St.Clair on 25 Aug 2011, 18:59
"I like life
Life likes me
Life and I fairly fully agree..."
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Sorflakne on 25 Aug 2011, 19:44
Gonna have to say that Mari should keep the pigtails.  They somehow work for her.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 25 Aug 2011, 19:55
Before I'd even read the text of the fourth panel, I thought half-jokingly "Uh oh, she's gonna break into song in a second." It was still an amusing surprise when she did, though.

You can tell that it's unusual for there to be such a focus in the story on the anthro-pcs ... they have been in the comic since #1, yet now we're verging on #2000, a conversation about the ethics and morality of anthro-pcs is breaking out*.

I don't know if we can really answer the question "do androids dream of electric sheep," but I think that the only reasonable way to act is that, if they appear sentient convincingly enough to pass the Turing test, then we should treat them as sentient. I don't see how any argument about whether they have a "soul" or whatever should have anything to do with it. And my impression is that, in the QC universe, anthro-pcs are capable of happiness and suffering, and so deserve to be treated accordingly.

* OK now I've said that, someone will tell me that this is not the first time at all. Oh well.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 25 Aug 2011, 19:59
I can't remember anything as on-point as the current discussion, but there was once a thread about the social, legal, and ethical status of AnthroPCs.

EDIT: Spider Robinson said that in his view anyone who says "Excuse me" is human.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 25 Aug 2011, 21:16
Surely a sentient robot might easily gain some rights: e.g. a minimum salary, a bank account, copyright to its creations,...

But in The Bicentennial Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bicentennial_Man) the robot realized in the end that to be accepted as a human, he must be prepared to `die'. I think that the good Dr Asimov caught something essential there. I mean, if I were in a jury deciding whether a sentience deserves to be called a human being...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Loki on 25 Aug 2011, 21:16
This (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K0VyPPCDb2w/TeUMXgfV3sI/AAAAAAAAzSk/G0N0lxBkrDE/s1600/My%2BPictures.jpg) is the toaster that makes bread fun.  8-)

I hope it hasn't been posted before.

Edit:
in the end that to be accepted as a human, he must be prepared to `die'.

Have you happened to read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality) by any chance? (Warning: TVTropes link).
Quote
Harry said, "I thought of my absolute rejection of death as the natural order."
I must say I don't get the notion that one would need to accept death in order to live, either. Care to explain?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 25 Aug 2011, 21:32
Surely a sentient robot might easily gain some rights: e.g. a minimum salary, a bank account, copyright to its creations,...

But in The Bicentennial Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bicentennial_Man) the robot realized in the end that to be accepted as a human, he must be prepared to `die'. I think that the good Dr Asimov caught something essential there. I mean, if I were in a jury deciding whether a sentience deserves to be called a human being...
Megaman ZX. Humans and reploids finally reach a truce. The terms of agreement were that the humans receive cybernetic upgrades allowing them to function on a similar level to the reploids, whereas the reploids took on mortality instituting something similar to a biological clock making their lifespan finite.

I know it's not the greatest work of science fiction from a literary standpoint that I could be citing, but it seems relevant.

Personally I think human is great, but if I could be something better I would.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 25 Aug 2011, 21:49

I must say I don't get the notion that one would need to accept death in order to live, either. Care to explain?

That was not the point. The point was that if you are an immortal sentience I shall not treat you as a human being. I may respect you and your acts and creations in many other ways, but I will not think of you as a fellow human being.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 25 Aug 2011, 22:27
You left out the et al.

Also covered by physics.

Look, I'm not trying to be a naysayer or a dick, but reaching escape velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity#List_of_escape_velocities) is freakin' hard and requires a LOT of power. Fuels that combine liquid oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_oxygen#Uses) with liquid hydrogen or kerosene are the best/safest means of achieving these speeds and you still need a skyscraper's worth to go anywhere. The rubber-burning rockets of Virgin Galactic/Scaled Composites are fine for suborbital joyrides but that's it.

My point is that it's not a simple lack of desire on the part of the U.S. or the Russians which has slowed space exploration to a crawl, it's the propulsion hurdle of getting up to 11.2 km/sec without exploding or irradiating the launch site.



Personally, I can't quite buy into the whole 'strong AI' concept, no matter what.  All I can conceive of is a 'chinese wall' type AI -- good enough to fool us, but the computer has no 'soul' / 'spark' / 'ghost' / what-have-you.


I think it's fair to acknowledge though that your requirement for the "reality" of these proposed beings is cultural, religious or superstitious. I for one don't believe anyone or anything has a "soul" in the sense that you mean, and yet I believe that you are completely real.

Yet those who follow animistic religions such as Japan's Shinto believe everything has a soul -- you, me, pets, furniture, rocks, the planet, atoms, the galaxy, you name it. I suspect that may be why their culture has such a fondness for robots. Looked at that way, an intelligent device that looks and acts like a human being is a human being.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Arancaytar on 25 Aug 2011, 22:29
This is a sentient, intelligent being we're talking about here, and you think it's appropriate to snuff her out of existence because... she doesn't take her job seriously?
Robots arent sentient, though. Jephs robots act like no reallife robot would act. Computers are mathematical machines, if they "show feelings" then its because an algorithm tells them to, not because there is the slightest hint of feeling in the machine. Just as an example, reallife robots do not get bored. Ever. They compute pi to the ten power n number of digits just fine, without ever wondering why they're doing it.


If an artificial intelligence gains the capacity for introspection, it also gains the capacity for boredom (which is the realization you could be doing something better with your time). Of course it would only act sad because its brain tells it to do that when it recognizes a situation that would make a human in their place sad, but that's pretty much what humans do as well.

Anyway, if Charlotte's job is to help potential customers see robots as fun pals to hang out with rather than machines or a menace, then there is no possible way she could do that job more effectively.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 25 Aug 2011, 23:29
EDIT: Spider Robinson said that in his view anyone who says "Excuse me" is human.

Excuse me, thats bullshit.

So, does that make me a spiteful human being?

Anyway, if Charlotte's job is to help potential customers see robots as fun pals to hang out with rather than machines or a menace, then there is no possible way she could do that job more effectively.

http://youtu.be/j6eFNRKEROw?t=1m
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: idontunderstand on 26 Aug 2011, 00:57
We know that Pintsize wants to play or be an instrument, so AnthroPC bands are imaginable.

*Starts imagining* The more I think of it, the more it seems like a GREAT idea.  :roll: and I'm imagining the band would something like Battles. But I guess I'm derailing from the current discussion. Sorry everybody, I'll leave right about now.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: MightionNY on 26 Aug 2011, 01:12
Oh lord... the "empty" Momo body just makes me sad.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Blackjoker on 26 Aug 2011, 01:12
Odd, one would think that Pintsize would have given her the best advice for protection from porn browsing related problems given that he seems to live in it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: WAYF on 26 Aug 2011, 01:31
Having a life-size anthro-PC could be really really interesting... I hope Marigold fixes those registry files and decides to keep the new chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Aug 2011, 01:32
I notice that the chassis Momo wanted to try out has smoother skin than the ones in the earlier strips and the salesgirl's (higher priced model?)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 26 Aug 2011, 01:34
A hilarious comic #2000...I'd say that's a good birthday present.

That being said, the chassis is remarkably similar to 1658, especially if she can change clothes.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 26 Aug 2011, 01:46
"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Just out of curiosity... What's the word I missed?

Also, I wonder why the fingers and arms don't show any "lines", I guess this version is a bit more expensive.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 26 Aug 2011, 01:47
Odd, one would think that Pintsize would have given her the best advice for protection from porn browsing related problems given that he seems to live in it.

Odd that you'd think a AnthroPC that loves to shock people with pics of Goatse (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1829) would even impart such advice.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 26 Aug 2011, 01:48
"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Sexy?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 26 Aug 2011, 01:53
"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Just out of curiosity... What's the word I missed?

Also, I wonder why the fingers and arms don't show any "lines", I guess this version is a bit more expensive.
I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: St.Clair on 26 Aug 2011, 01:54
and best part, Momo can keep her old chassis (which probably doesn't have a lot of resale value anymore) around as a cute* accessory.

*Sometimes incapacitatingly so.  Dora's reaction is apparently not uncommon.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: doekman on 26 Aug 2011, 02:03
To celebrate 2000 episodes of QC, hereby the top 20 of nr. of appearances of characters:

1.   Faye (1137)
2.   Marten (1114)
3.   Dora (839)
4.   Hannelore (443)
5.   Pintsize (290)
6.   Steve (174)
7.   Sven (160)
8.   Raven (157)
9.   Angus (137)
10.   Marigold (134)
11.   Tai (129)
12.   Penelope (124)
13.   [Guest Comic] (82)
14.   Winslow (67)
15.   Ellen (63)
16.   Momo (46)
17.   Veronica Reed (46)
18.   Wil (41)
19.   Cosette (34)
20.   (Yelling Bird) (31)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: nonethousand on 26 Aug 2011, 02:09
To celebrate 2000 episodes of QC, hereby the top 20 of nr. of appearances of characters:

1.   Faye (1137)
2.   Marten (1114)
3.   Dora (839)
4.   Hannelore (443)
5.   Pintsize (290)
6.   Steve (174)
7.   Sven (160)
8.   Raven (157)
9.   Angus (137)
10.   Marigold (134)
11.   Tai (129)
12.   Penelope (124)
13.   [Guest Comic] (82)
14.   Winslow (67)
15.   Ellen (63)
16.   Momo (46)
17.   Veronica Reed (46)
18.   Wil (41)
19.   Cosette (34)
20.   (Yelling Bird) (31)

humm... the wiki disagrees with you: http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Count_of_character_appearances :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 02:27
There are bound to be some disagreements, because, for instance, it is not entirely clear when Angus first appeared.  Also whether voices off are counted or not, and stuff like that.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 26 Aug 2011, 02:44
I notice that the chassis Momo wanted to try out has smoother skin than the ones in the earlier strips and the salesgirl's (higher priced model?)
It is rather a nice touch that the hair-colour on Momo's trial body became brighter and more saturated as she brought it to life.

But registry files? Momo has a registry? :-o  Robots will never be taken seriously as sentient beings if they're running some flavour of Windows with an opaque single point of failure like that. Real operating systems store their configuration in plain text files...  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 26 Aug 2011, 02:57
Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 03:12
Real operating systems store their configuration in plain text files...  :laugh:

I get so fed up with this old chestnut.  The only difference between a binary file and a text file is how easily a human can read it at a superficial level.  Either may be designed with a simple or complex structure, and I assure you that I have had to poke around the internals of each just as much in real life (which in this regard extends back more than 40 years).  In the last ten years I have only had two totally unexplained server crashes - one of OpenBSD 3.6 and one of Windows 2000 Server (I don't run any Linux servers*) - and at that frequency, I can't be sure that they were not caused by hardware issues (the OpenBSD machine has been running in the same hardware for six years since then, but the Windows machine concerned was replaced several years ago).


* I have a Linux music machine at home, though, and a Red Hat support qualification ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 03:19
Alternate response:

Real operating systems store their configuration in plain text files...  :laugh:

I find speciesism in operating systems almost as annoying as you find racism in humans...

(I'm not saying that it is as harmful, but the underlying "logic" is pretty much the same, actually.)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 26 Aug 2011, 03:50
You left out the et al.

Also covered by physics.

Look, I'm not trying to be a naysayer or a dick, ...

Given that credible experts have espoused attitudes similar to yours, with numbers to back them up, toward early aircraft, early telecommunications, alternative energy et al. (there's that damn et. al. again), I'll keep my optimism, thanks.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: iduguphergrave on 26 Aug 2011, 04:18
"That's the last time I look up thethy(?) Yaoi Files for you"

Just out of curiosity... What's the word I missed?

I thought it was "sketchy." I had to read it a couple times, too lol.

And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing  :lol: (it is a little unsettling)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Border Reiver on 26 Aug 2011, 04:28
Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

I believe that particular model though also has the self-repair function that can make it fairly resilient.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: mike837go on 26 Aug 2011, 04:34
And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing  :lol: (it is a little unsettling)

I found it a whole lot unsettling. Transfering software to new hardware is a risky process to begin with. When the process fails (as with this example) you have to back off, repair the fault and try again.

With Momo's personality stuck "somewhere in-between" it is more than just sad.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: HiFranc on 26 Aug 2011, 04:37
And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing  :lol: (it is a little unsettling)

I found it a whole lot unsettling. Transfering software to new hardware is a risky process to begin with. When the process fails (as with this example) you have to back off, repair the fault and try again.

With Moma's personality stuck "somewhere in-between" it is more than just sad.

To me it looks like she developed the symptoms of robot menningitis as she transferred.  She already had the infection but her imune system was weakened as she transferred body.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 26 Aug 2011, 04:42
I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.
Yeah, sexy yaoi sites seems to be the case :)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: doekman on 26 Aug 2011, 04:53
There are bound to be some disagreements, because, for instance, it is not entirely clear when Angus first appeared.  Also whether voices off are counted or not, and stuff like that.

Doekman's figures being mostly larger (sometimes by quite a lot), I'm going to guess that they include guest comics, or possibly spoken references.

I did include some guest appearance references (but haven't been strict on them), and probably I also made some input-errors. I decided with episode 2000 to stop recording data, since I've heard Jeph is working on some archive with also complete transcribed text.

The thing: I actually never thought Faye would be number one in number of appearances....
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: sluthy on 26 Aug 2011, 05:11
Aha! Momo has just upgraded to become... Fart-chan (http://twitter.com/#!/jephjacques)!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Arancaytar on 26 Aug 2011, 05:35
So... this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658) is definitely going to happen then?

Edit: I just noticed that not only is the chassis nearly indistinguishable from a real human (if you look closely you can see faint lines at the elbows), but so is the voice. That means it is theoretically possible for a robot to pass as a human with little difficulty.

In other words; so... this (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1237) is definitely going to happen as well?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 26 Aug 2011, 06:05
Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

I believe that particular model though also has the self-repair function that can make it fairly resilient.

But once you shut it off it will never restart.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 26 Aug 2011, 06:24
I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.
Yeah, sexy yaoi sites seems to be the case :)

I'm with iduguphergrave on this one - I'm pretty sure it's "sketchy  yaoi sites". 

Sketchy as in unreliable, like the title, which has a .cx (christmas island) domain extension...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 06:40
Unlike, say, a system that only runs on hardware that will be permanantly damaged or destroyed if deprive of one specific chemical element for more than a few seconds?

Like 15 seconds, perhaps?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 26 Aug 2011, 06:58
Charlotte could be the singer for the band! Has anyone already said that? Oh gosh I can't be arsed to go back and check! What do I do?  :psyduck:

CURSE IT ALL I POST ANYWAY

CHARLOTTE COULD BE SINGER FOR DEATHMOLE!

Momo wants to play too! So she downloads a software package that makes her perfect at playing music!  She invites some robot friends to join.  Now all the band members have been replaced by robots who play perfectly.  Awesome?

Speaking of which, why do the cast never reference the amazing robotic bands of the future, of which there must be many.  They can do everything better than us if they want, so why wouldn't they want super stardom?  Although, sometimes I think Sigur Ros is a robot band.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 26 Aug 2011, 07:11
They can do everything better than us if they want,

No they can't.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Aug 2011, 07:16
The QCVerse isn't in the future. It's now but with a different tech history.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: HiFranc on 26 Aug 2011, 07:20
So... this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658) is definitely going to happen then?

I think the first two panels of this more likely (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=268).

Personally, I think that part of the reason that Momo fantasises about being with Sven is because she doesn't have the confidence who personality to make it a reality.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Aug 2011, 07:26
You screwed the link up.

Do it again  :x  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: HiFranc on 26 Aug 2011, 07:30
Corrected.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 26 Aug 2011, 07:35
They can do everything better than us if they want,

No they can't.

How so?  Physically there's no question, they can be placed in a body that's designed for any task.  Mentally, they would compute problems like a computer, efficiently and without distractions.  They never die, only getting more proficient as hardware and software improves.  Whatever you do, a robot could do it better.  It'd be like Neo from the Matrix..."I know Kung Fu!".  Instantly they are trained at whatever took you years to perfect.  

Have we discussed non-sentient robots yet?  People poo-poo the idea of enslaving sentient robots, which is arguable I admit.  However, in a world where we have sentient robots, that means the technology is there for non-sentient ones to do all my chores for me.  On the flip side, they would also be working for corporations, efficiently working with no complaints, no salary, no insurance, 24/7.  

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TRVA123 on 26 Aug 2011, 07:51
How so?  Physically there's no question, they can be placed in a body that's designed for any task.  Mentally, they would compute problems like a computer, efficiently and without distractions.  They never die, only getting more proficient as hardware and software improves.  Whatever you do, a robot could do it better.  It'd be like Neo from the Matrix..."I know Kung Fu!".  Instantly they are trained at whatever took you years to perfect. 

Because technical proficiency in music is not a hallmark of success. In fact, even today, the technical best players are often not the most well recognized, famous, or even the most lauded by critics. There are other qualities that are necessary, such as ingenuity, charisma, and maybe sheer audacity.

Not to say that, in the QCverse, AI would be incapable of competing musically (or in any creative format) just that many qualities that create a good artist are personality based. Just as not every human is a good artist, nor could every AI be a good artist. There is no algorithm for creative success.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 08:19
Whatever you do, a robot could do it better

In principle, one day, perhaps (first we have to define "better", which is not always trivial).  But not in the here and now - nor, as far as I can see, in the QCverse.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 26 Aug 2011, 08:58
So... this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658) is definitely going to happen then?
What I can't understand is why she didn't look at that one first. She clearly already knew which one was her choice. I admit I've done something simillar - browsing all around the store for the 'perfect' laptop or phone, even though I have it in mind already. Difference is, I went and had a long, lustful, covetous look (and if possible a hands-on demo) at the one I had in mind first, so as to make it clear to myself what these other ones are competing with.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: HiFranc on 26 Aug 2011, 09:06
I have a prediction or two:

Once they have the virus sorted out Momo is going to go to the coffee shop to ask for Sven's number.  She'll probably give an excuse like "Marigold would like to borrow that book".  One of the staff phone Marigold to confirm (with or without Momo's presence) and Marigold is completely surprised.  Marigold puts 2 and 2 together and freaks out -- being disatisfied with her body after meeting Sven, getingt a human-sized body and finding an excuse to get Sven's number.  Either immediately or after Marigold recovers Marigold shares her insight with the CoD staff.  Now both Sven and Momo are in trouble!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Blackjoker on 26 Aug 2011, 09:41
Odd, one would think that Pintsize would have given her the best advice for protection from porn browsing related problems given that he seems to live in it.

Odd that you'd think a AnthroPC that loves to shock people with pics of Goatse (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1829) would even impart such advice.

Well he considers momo a friend, and there is a difference between shocking someone and them having 'life' threatening issues. (not sure what a corrupted registry file would be like for an anthroPC but I imagine it could be problematic) and since she got him help after he tried to rewire himself... then again I might be expecting a bit much of Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Aug 2011, 10:16
Why would a Sony robot be running Windows? (Unless Sony reinvented the registry on its own).

Text configuration files are manageable with general-purpose text manipulation tools. But then, I guess "regedit foo.reg" isn't too bad.

Isn't it a good thing Marten doesn't have a lot of money? Imagine Pintsize in a humanoid chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: LordVaughn on 26 Aug 2011, 10:34
I believe the phrase is meant to be “sexy yaoi sites” but I'm interpolating here.
Yeah, sexy yaoi sites seems to be the case :)

I'm with iduguphergrave on this one - I'm pretty sure it's "sketchy  yaoi sites".  

Sketchy as in unreliable, like the title, which has a .cx (christmas island) domain extension...
I thought it might have been "filthy" yaoi sites, as if you say filthy out loud with your tongue outside your mouth, the l isn't so easy to pronounce. And as the "k" sound in such words as "sketchy" or "sexy" doesn't nessecarily need use of the tongue, and can come from the back of the throat, it seems unlikely those would be the case.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jacjyd on 26 Aug 2011, 10:36
I'm still weirded out by the human sized chassis.  Moments like a few comics ago (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1997) when Marigold holds Momo tight because they're both scared would just...get weird if Momo were the same size. Who'd be protecting whom?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Jedit on 26 Aug 2011, 11:27
Having a life-size anthro-PC could be really really interesting... I hope Marigold fixes those registry files and decides to keep the new chassis.

"Captain, I'm getting a reading of 6.8 langs on the lesbometer!"  :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 26 Aug 2011, 11:28
I just find it funny that having her tongue out of her mouth affects how she talks.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 12:30
They can do everything better than us if they want,
No they can't.

Yes they can, yes they can, yes they CAAANNNNNNNNNN!

(If you recognize THAT meme, you're older than dirt.)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 26 Aug 2011, 12:47
They can do everything better than us if they want,
No they can't.

Yes they can, yes they can, yes they CAAANNNNNNNNNN!

(If you recognize THAT meme, you're older than dirt.)

Anything we can do they can do better, they can do anything better than us.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: SirDudley on 26 Aug 2011, 12:55
Hmm....so much for my first prediction on today's comic. Guess I'll have to wait for #2500 or #3000 for the walk-in cameo by Jeph.

That said, ye olde corrupted-registry-files-due-to-porn will suffice. I kinda like the new Momo (if this is going to be the new Momo). There is potential in this new form. Then again, we have yet to see the price tag for any chassis at the store. Although I do wish Jeph kept the old chassis in a sitting position instead of lying on its back dead at the end.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Dust on 26 Aug 2011, 13:05
I guess this chassis wasn't shielded against Strip2K.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Throg on 26 Aug 2011, 13:51
Heh, so there's another tangential coincidence: 1984 was kinda-sorta about privacy issues.  2000 features (kinda/sorta) a Y2K bug.   :-D

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 26 Aug 2011, 13:53
How so?  Physically there's no question, they can be placed in a body that's designed for any task.  Mentally, they would compute problems like a computer, efficiently and without distractions.  They never die, only getting more proficient as hardware and software improves.  Whatever you do, a robot could do it better.  It'd be like Neo from the Matrix..."I know Kung Fu!".  Instantly they are trained at whatever took you years to perfect. 

Because technical proficiency in music is not a hallmark of success. In fact, even today, the technical best players are often not the most well recognized, famous, or even the most lauded by critics. There are other qualities that are necessary, such as ingenuity, charisma, and maybe sheer audacity.

Not to say that, in the QCverse, AI would be incapable of competing musically (or in any creative format) just that many qualities that create a good artist are personality based. Just as not every human is a good artist, nor could every AI be a good artist. There is no algorithm for creative success.

There is an algorithm for everything, just because it seems impossible to comprehend the human algorithm doesn't mean it isn't there.  Also, technical proficiency is a big help.  I'm not going to win any musical contests picking up a guitar for the first time, especially a robot who has the ability to play any song perfectly.

However, art is mostly opinionated.  The majority of jobs are just about getting a task done, which a robot would truly excel at.
Whatever you do, a robot could do it better

In principle, one day, perhaps (first we have to define "better", which is not always trivial).  But not in the here and now - nor, as far as I can see, in the QCverse.

They seem to be giving the robots free will, so they aren't the true workhorses that a robot can be.  But, like I said, if you can have more advanced sentient robots, then you can easily have non-sentient robots programmed to take jobs away from humans (and sentient robots?).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Aug 2011, 14:09
What's the POD (Point Of Departure) for the QC timeline? Turing doesn't commit suicide?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 14:16
There is an algorithm for everything, just because it seems impossible to comprehend the human algorithm doesn't mean it isn't there.

Er, see Gödel after class.  Then read up on computability.  Also there are algorithms which can be described, but which are not executable in this universe.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 26 Aug 2011, 14:20
Hooo boy, hope they can sort that Registry problem out.  I'd like to see Momo keep that Chassis.

It does look a little sad to see her old Chassis just lying there.  I wonder if Marigold will keep it as a 'Backup Device' for Momo.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 26 Aug 2011, 14:27
I'll keep my optimism, thanks.

I'm very much an optimist. I am simply saying the reason things have slowed down is not due to a lack of desire. What's holding us back is a non-trivial technical hurdle -- that's all. If anyone's a pessimist it's Jeph who seems to think we stopped going into space because it was boring.

I firmly believe real human spaceflight is right around the corner, possibly within the next few decades. I believe that we just need a major advancement in propulsion or materials science and bam we'll be building orbital colonies and Moon cities like mad. Now that they can make big sheets of carbon nanotubes I'm betting on a space elevator and/or tethers.


And to the person who thought "empty" Momo looked sad, that's funny because I read this with my friend and he said the same thing  :lol: (it is a little unsettling)

It reminds me of an awesome scene in an old Astro Boy cartoon where they have to sneak in somewhere, so the scientist who's basically Astro's adoptive dad walks by the guards carrying a briefcase. Once inside he opens it to reveal Astro "field stripped" and deactivated, his eyes "dead." Really threw me for a loop as a kid, but really highlighted the point that he's still a freakin' machine.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 26 Aug 2011, 14:30
Betting on rocket advances, hoping for space elevator.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 26 Aug 2011, 14:30
There is an algorithm for everything, just because it seems impossible to comprehend the human algorithm doesn't mean it isn't there.

Er, see Gödel after class.  Then read up on computability.  Also there are algorithms which can be described, but which are not executable in this universe.

Why are you comparing our universe with one that has many scientific breakthroughs?  As it stands the scientists of QC appear to have emulated the human algorithm and improved upon it.

I'll keep my optimism, thanks.

I'm very much an optimist. I am simply saying the reason things have slowed down is not due to a lack of desire. What's holding us back is a non-trivial technical hurdle -- that's all. If anyone's a pessimist it's Jeph who seems to think we stopped going into space because it was boring.

I firmly believe real human spaceflight is right around the corner, possibly within the next few decades. I believe that we just need a major advancement in propulsion or materials science and bam we'll be building orbital colonies and Moon cities like mad. Now that they can make big sheets of carbon nanotubes I'm betting on a space elevator and/or tethers.

A lot fo the reason is cost/benefit.  Our country, along with most others, is having huge money issues.  How much time and money can we throw into a future that many of us won't see when people are struggling to find work right now?  We aren't bored, we're just prioritizing.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 14:35
Why are you comparing our universe with one that has many scientific breakthroughs?

Scientific advance cannot change the basis of mathematical and computational theory.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 26 Aug 2011, 14:41

A lot fo the reason is cost/benefit.  Our country, along with most others, is having huge money issues.  How much time and money can we throw into a future that many of us won't see when people are struggling to find work right now?  We aren't bored, we're just prioritizing.

Contrary to popular belief, NASA's budget isn't that large. It's been at or below one percent of total Federal expenditures (PDF file) (http://www.richardb.us/nasa.pdf) since 1976.

That doesn't help the public perception problem, but still.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 26 Aug 2011, 14:49
Why are you comparing our universe with one that has many scientific breakthroughs?

Scientific advance cannot change the basis of mathematical and computational theory.

I'm confused at what you're arguing now.  I'm suggesting no more that what the QC universe has currently shown us, and then mixing in technology we already have.  Please tell me, based on what we have seen in QC, that a robot could not be programmed to do a task or express an emotion.

Besides, mathematical and computational theory is just that, theory.  There are huge possible advances such as P=NP that have not been proven or disproven, and then there are accepted laws that are possibly changing, such as the speed of light not being a constant.  Nothing is impossible, especially in the QC world.


A lot fo the reason is cost/benefit.  Our country, along with most others, is having huge money issues.  How much time and money can we throw into a future that many of us won't see when people are struggling to find work right now?  We aren't bored, we're just prioritizing.

Contrary to popular belief, NASA's budget isn't that large. It's been at or below one percent of total Federal expenditures (PDF file) (http://www.richardb.us/nasa.pdf) since 1976.

That doesn't help the public perception problem, but still.


I don't agree with the public but it's an easy cut when it comes to money for politicians.  Kick the can down the road.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Tova on 26 Aug 2011, 14:56
There is an algorithm for everything...

I'm suggesting no more that what the QC universe has currently shown us, and then mixing in technology we already have.

Riight.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheCollector on 26 Aug 2011, 14:58
I absolutely love how this Chassis is like an improved version of the one in the dream Momo had. The improvement being the fact that this one has a nose.
That was actually the reason I previously didn't want the same chassis, the no nose looked weird. Or at least very tiny nose. But this, this I love. Especially in the fifth panel, so Cute!
Also, anyone else notice that while the shop keep is like that, Momo's new chassis doesn't have those lines on the joints? She looks more like a normal human then a robot.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 15:01
Please tell me, based on what we have seen in QC, that a robot could not be programmed to do a task or express an emotion.

I'm not saying that they can't.  However, this is only a starting point; to produce the full complexity of a human being is another matter.  It may be (and I conjecture, because I don't know, any more than you do) that the task of emulating a human would bring us up against the limits of computability in such a way as would explain the uncertainty in the results in the case of humans themselves - thus possibly providing a basis for free will.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 26 Aug 2011, 15:16
There is an algorithm for everything...

I'm suggesting no more that what the QC universe has currently shown us, and then mixing in technology we already have.

Riight.


Out of context quoting is fun!  Yes, a logical algorithm can be written for any human action, the drawback being computational time.  I've seen no such problems with any A.I. in QC.
Please tell me, based on what we have seen in QC, that a robot could not be programmed to do a task or express an emotion.

I'm not saying that they can't.  However, this is only a starting point; to produce the full complexity of a human being is another matter.  It may be (and I conjecture, because I don't know, any more than you do) that the task of emulating a human would bring us up against the limits of computability in such a way as would explain the uncertainty in the results in the case of humans themselves - thus possibly providing a basis for free will.

That's fair. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Sorflakne on 26 Aug 2011, 15:25
So I was looking at panel 3, and in 3a, it initially looked like Momo was feeling up the new chassis, which would explain the reaction in 3b (if she realized that she suddenly doesn't like boobs), but her line in panel 4 just throws me off, since I'm not sure how corrupted registries would factor into it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 26 Aug 2011, 15:35
Damn, 2 new replies.  @P-dubs - I've heard somewhat convincing arguments that humans in our universe don't have free will, either.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 26 Aug 2011, 16:17
P-dubs??

Anyway - yes, maybe free will is an illusion; but seriously, how do we tell?

[EDIT]
OIC: "dubs" as in "double-u"
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: CrowFairy on 26 Aug 2011, 16:22
Hmm, we may get our Sven fanservice yet, then. ;D

I like the new chassis, and I'm glad Momo likes it, too. But it's definitely going to change the relationship the two of them have--they'll be a lot more like equals/friends than robot friend-companion. I do wonder when the jealousy would set in--Marigold is bound to start feeling like Momo is prettier than her (I don't think either is prettier than the other, but I know how Marigold thinks), and that will definitely cause some problems (which would be a good storyline but problematic for the two of them as characters/people/robot).

Considering how streamlined the chassis is (the joint lines being almost invisible) and such, it has to be expensive. :/ Can Mar-Bear really afford this right now? Or maybe they'll let her pay in installments? I won't be terribly surprised if they leave without the chassis, but if they do, then it probably won't be there by the time she has the money for it. At least, that's how things work when I wait to buy something I want.

Also, I think "thethy" is "sketchy." Her tongue is already out of her mouth when she starts the sentence, so trying to say "sexy" would sound pretty much just like that. I say "pretty much" because I don't feel like trying it, but that seems like it would be the result.

A hilarious comic #2000...I'd say that's a good birthday present.

That being said, the chassis is remarkably similar to 1658, especially if she can change clothes.
Considering she's basically human-sized in this chassis, all they'd have to do is order a cosplay costume or something.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: CompSarge on 26 Aug 2011, 16:35
Also, anyone else notice that while the shop keep is like that, Momo's new chassis doesn't have those lines on the joints? She looks more like a normal human then a robot.

You can see the faint outlines of them in panels 1, 2, and 3, but I think by panel 4 Jeph forgot about them.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheCollector on 26 Aug 2011, 16:36
I won't be terribly surprised if they leave without the chassis,
I hope they don't leave without it. I've always loved Momo but, and it may seem odd, but I've always felt weird saving images of her as is. Now I wouldn't.

Considering she's basically human-sized in this chassis, all they'd have to do is order a cosplay costume or something.
Why cosplay? If you ask me by her reaction to that other one, she doesn't like the whole schoolgirl look anymore. Maybe she'll start wearing normal clothes. Though I hope she doesn't stick with those default clothes, kinda bland.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 26 Aug 2011, 16:59

I'm not saying that they can't.  However, this is only a starting point; to produce the full complexity of a human being is another matter. 


If this is a religious belief of yours I'll back off.

We aren't magical. If it can be done with wetware it can be done with hardware/software.

QC posits a huge number of technological advances we haven't seen yet, to the point where it's bordering on "Futurama."
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 26 Aug 2011, 17:38
Hmm, we may get our Sven fanservice yet, then. ;D

We already did, and it was quite graphic!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 26 Aug 2011, 17:58
OIC: "dubs" as in "double-u"
Yep.  Is it ok if I call you that?  It amuses me.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 18:11
I firmly believe real human spaceflight is right around the corner, possibly within the next few decades. I believe that we just need a major advancement in propulsion or materials science and bam we'll be building orbital colonies and Moon cities like mad. Now that they can make big sheets of carbon nanotubes I'm betting on a space elevator and/or tethers.

1. They've been waiting for that major advancement for years. Right along side Mr. Fusion and Transflux Capacitors.

2. You want someone to start heading to the moon like it's no one's business? Have them discover one of two things up there: Gold or Oil.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 18:19
Considering she's basically human-sized in this chassis, all they'd have to do is order a cosplay costume or something.
Why cosplay? If you ask me by her reaction to that other one, she doesn't like the whole schoolgirl look anymore. Maybe she'll start wearing normal clothes. Though I hope she doesn't stick with those default clothes, kinda bland.

I think Marigold got her the current getup she has after she "bought" her, since her first one was a kimono. She looks better with the "schoolgirl" look.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 26 Aug 2011, 18:30
I just realized no one has posted this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoi1MSGu64). I think it's relevant to the robotic discussion.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheCollector on 26 Aug 2011, 18:43
Considering she's basically human-sized in this chassis, all they'd have to do is order a cosplay costume or something.
Why cosplay? If you ask me by her reaction to that other one, she doesn't like the whole schoolgirl look anymore. Maybe she'll start wearing normal clothes. Though I hope she doesn't stick with those default clothes, kinda bland.

I think Marigold got her the current getup she has after she "bought" her, since her first one was a kimono. She looks better with the "schoolgirl" look.
Kimono? What? When was this?
But that's beside the point, like I said, judging by her reaction to the other one, Momo's not liking the schoolgirl look anymore.
Also, I'm hoping she stops the schoolgirl look in all honesty, on a little thing like her old chassis it's cute. On one that looks like a full grown woman, well there's porn of that.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 18:57
I think Marigold got her the current getup she has after she "bought" her, since her first one was a kimono. She looks better with the "schoolgirl" look.
Kimono? What? When was this?

When we first meet Momo (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1298) (1298, 702 strips ago).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 26 Aug 2011, 18:59
...well there's porn of that.

Yes, yes there is. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rule%2034)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 19:01
What would you like to see for strip 2K?

Fanservice, of course.    - 13 (10.4%)
Oh, what KIND of fanservice? Hanners cheesecake.    - 10 (8%)
No, FAYE cheesecake.    - 10 (8%)

DORA! DORA! DORA!    - 2 (1.6%)
I always preferred Penelope, myself.    - 6 (4.8%)
MARI-CHAN!    - 9 (7.2%)
Tai! (And maybe her last name, too?)    - 7 (5.6%)
Forget the girls: MARTEN cheesecake!    - 4 (3.2%)
No, no, NO! STEVE rocks.    - 3 (2.4%)
Sven FTW.    - 9 (7.2%)
We need more AnthroPC antics!    - 7 (5.6%)
Yelling Bird vs. Randy.    - 11 (8.8%)
Ho, hum, just another boring day.    - 15 (12%)
Naked Waffles!    - 19 (15.2%)

Total Voters: 125
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TheCollector on 26 Aug 2011, 19:01
I think Marigold got her the current getup she has after she "bought" her, since her first one was a kimono. She looks better with the "schoolgirl" look.
Kimono? What? When was this?

[http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1298]When we first meet Momo[/url] (1298, 702 strips ago).
Huh, what do ya know. I remember that now. Especially the disturbing eel line.
But yeah, I like the schoolgirl look better on her. Little her. Big her, once again, Porn.

But man, I wish QC updated on the weekends too. I hate having to wait all that time to possibly see more new Momo.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 26 Aug 2011, 19:11
Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Despite it now being 3am, I had to satisfy my own curiosity, and so did an archive-dive to find out Momo has only ever appeared in the kimono in 2 strips (from a total of 44 appearances) - 1298 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1298) and 1366 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1366). By the time of her 3rd appearance, in 1411 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1411), she has changed to the schoolgirl outfit.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: akronnick on 26 Aug 2011, 19:15
Well it's just an outfit, Maybe she came with the kimono, and at some point She and/or Marigold decided the schoolgirl outfit was a better choice.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 26 Aug 2011, 20:28
Actually, considering that Marigold is actually a 'Techie' (wasn't that mentioned as her profession at one stage?) it wouldn't surprise me that she can afford the expense of the new Chassis for Momo.  It'll probably mean she'll have to take on more work, but considering the kind of charges a self employed tech expert of Mairgolds ability could charge, I wouldn't be surprised if she can afford it in the long run.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Somebody on 26 Aug 2011, 21:36
When we first meet Momo (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1298) (1298, 702 strips ago).
Wait, if Momo was the newest model then, and she's 2 years & 8 months old now (per #1995), does that mean a couple of years have passed in the past 700 strips? I know there's a couple of time jumps in there, but the idea that QC even approaches "real time" Does Not Compute.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wrwight on 26 Aug 2011, 21:51
I think time is a very fluid concept in this comic, and not to be scrutinized too closely. Also, I don't think we know the release schedule for APC chassis. It could be the newest model was already a couple of years old at that point.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2011, 22:17
If it wasn't for Pintsize meeting up with Momo, we never would have run into PT-610x (who tried to convince Pintsize he could attain a "sentience matrix");

If it wasn't for Pintsize attempting to rewire himself, Momo wouldn't have encouraged Marten and Dora to ask her "owner" to help fix him;

If it wasn't for Dora and Marten seeking out Momo's owner, they never would have met Marigold;

If Dora had never gone over to Marigold's apartment, she never would have felt compelled to call Hannelore;

If Hannelore had never come over to clean Mari's apartment, they wouldn't have bonded over Yaoi and Magical Love Gentleman;

...and this strip is much better off that they did.

So - it's all Pintsize's fault.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 26 Aug 2011, 22:24

Scientific advance cannot change the basis of mathematical and computational theory.

Besides, mathematical and computational theory is just that, theory.  There are huge possible advances such as P=NP that have not been proven or disproven, and then there are accepted laws that are possibly changing, such as the speed of light not being a constant.  Nothing is impossible, especially in the QC world.


Hmm. The tasks that have been proven to be algorithmically undecidable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecidable_problem) remain so forever irrespective of an eventual answer to the P=NP question. Mathematics is different from physics in this sense that the proven facts never change. And computational theory is part of mathematics.  I dare not say to what extent the proofs depend on the concept of the Turing machine as a model for computation, but TM is  sufficiently wide a concept (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm#Formalization) to encompass all the imaginable computers. Quantum (or other unconventional) computing may offer some hope for some specific tasks.

But I agree with you in that all of the above is quite irrelevant to the question of whether an AI can be programmed to express emotion or not. We are certainly capable of believing that an AI can express emotion, which is sufficient for many a purpose. And, of course, Jeph is free to use artistic license in order to entertain us and/or himself.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 26 Aug 2011, 22:33
If I recall the initial incident was a freak accident that they studied and learned to reproduce. I'm not a mathematician, but it seems almost implicit in the freak accident premise that it utilizes some previously undiscovered principle that would make it possible, or reveals a flaw in a principle previously held to be true. For example maybe the addition of a previously undiscovered variable to the formula you're listing, or the discovery that the formula was ill equipped to deal with a situation never before encountered or conceived.

I know next to nothing about math, but does any of that make sense?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Aug 2011, 23:36
Reference you're thinking of (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1506).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 26 Aug 2011, 23:42
1. They've been waiting for that major advancement for years. Right along side Mr. Fusion and Transflux Capacitors.

Those are pure SF -- goofy SF at that. A space elevator or orbital tether system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator) is theoretically possible. We know what would be needed but lack a strong enough material. Carbon and boron nitride nanotubes are real, a decent bet to achieve the needed tensile strength (see the third graph of preceding link), and development of them is proceeding rapidly

As for the issue of waiting years for a major advancement or breakthrough all I can say is "Welcome to the universe." Science moves in small steps and we'll all be long dead before many of the things we would like to see get discovered. I'm just grateful I'm alive at the dawn of the information age and don't have to shit in a chamber pot.

2. You want someone to start heading to the moon like it's no one's business? Have them discover one of two things up there: Gold or Oil.
How about a planet made of diamond? (http://news.yahoo.com/astronomers-discover-planet-made-diamond-180427124.html)

There are plenty of natural resources closer to home too. But chemical rockets are still not cost effective or reliable enough to go get them.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 27 Aug 2011, 00:20
Well, I don't know how to put it in a useful and clear way, but I guess I should try anyway. Mathematical theorems are absolute certainties. But they come together with a scope, and do not really claim anything, if we are studying objects outside that scope.

Einstein: "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

[Edit]
I believe Einstein was referring to the statistical nature of quantum mechanics when he said the above, but I may be wrong. Einstein had philosophical problems with QM ("God doesn't play dice!"), and it was a bit dangerous of me to present this quote out of context, because he most certainly didn't want to undermine the effectiveness and accuracy of the mathematical theories he was using himself. [/Edit]

So a result derived with infallible mathematical rules is extremely useful even if its validity is guaranteed only within a certain scope (in the present discussion in a model of computations, in physics in a model of how a part of the universe works). If you want to go around it, you need to be familiar with the scope in order to invent something outside that (fully knowing that the conclusion of the said result may still be valid in many an extended scope leaving you still constrained in the same way). IOW: Don't hold your breath, if you are basing your hopes on the existence of something that might be able to circumvent known facts. I will balance Einstein's statement with another quote

Randall Munroe: "(Science) It works, bitches!"

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Aug 2011, 00:27
If this is a religious belief of yours I'll back off.

We aren't magical. If it can be done with wetware it can be done with hardware/software.

No, not religious.  Just forty-five years in programming and other aspects of computing (mostly in a medical environment), plus a detailed awareness of genetics and the like, makes me feel that the mismatch between our capabilities and what's required is still almost inconceivably wide.  Sure, we can imitate some behaviours tolerably well, and that may have huge practical usefulness, and even change our world; but to make a device that is in some way equivalent to a living being requires hugely more.  Of course, I'm not just talking of the AI aspects here - because the AI can't be complete without all the surrounding means of gaining experience and operating on the world.  Think about energy storage and conversion, and the capability to scavenge for energy sources; the range of sensors for both internal and external monitoring; the information storage, and search and association mechanisms; the mobility; the growth and self-repair mechanisms; the self-reproducing capabilities. We are seriously barely at the starting line with most of those, and it's not just a matter of a few breakthroughs, I think.  Not until all that is in place will the AI have the possibility to approach complete emulation of humanity.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Aug 2011, 01:37
OIC: "dubs" as in "double-u"
Yep.  Is it ok if I call you that?  It amuses me.

Whatever.  In 65 years, it's the closest anyone's come to making a nickname out of my name.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 27 Aug 2011, 04:47
Mr. Hodges: It's only taken about 16-17 years for me to suddenly be referred to as JW by relative strangers - thanks to my original ISP.

The real basis of most Sci-Fi is the concept that one, seemingly overwhelming and impossible to overcome, problem has been figured out. Time travel, AI robotics, faster-than-light travel, genetics - it's usually one little thing that makes the difference.

In the BTTF universe, it was the discovery of the Transflux capacitor. In Star Trek, it was the discovery of trilithium and the concept of warp drive. In the QC universe, someone apparently found a way to get past the sentience barrier - a "someone" whom I suspect has the last name of Ellicott-Chatham.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 27 Aug 2011, 04:58
If this is a religious belief of yours I'll back off.

We aren't magical. If it can be done with wetware it can be done with hardware/software.

No, not religious.  Just forty-five years in programming and other aspects of computing (mostly in a medical environment), plus a detailed awareness of genetics and the like,

I'm not going to challenge your claim of being a 55-or-older computer programmer and genetics expert, but ... you know how that sounds, right? I don't see how your expertise in genetics grants you deeper insight into human intelligence than the average person, but I'll take your word for it.

makes me feel that the mismatch between our capabilities and what's required is still almost inconceivably wide.

I didn't say it was right around the corner, and of course neither are you. But when I said "we're not magical" I was actually responding to this:

It may be (and I conjecture, because I don't know, any more than you do) that the task of emulating a human would bring us up against the limits of computability in such a way as would explain the uncertainty in the results in the case of humans themselves - thus possibly providing a basis for free will.
To me the above sounds vague and superstitious, like a "meddling in God's domain" hand-wave rather than an assessment of when computers will be up to it.

Edit: And I say "when" rather than "if" with confidence because I'm merely a wadded-up ball of meat the size of a small ham which has been running a human algorithm called "Robert M." for about 44.5 years now. I'm a physical thing in the physical world running a physical program made of weird-looking cells, electrons and chemical squirts. Evolution is a lot of things, but it's neither an efficiency expert nor an intelligent designer.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 27 Aug 2011, 06:15
The Internet is a case against intelligent design, but I'm more disposed to it being attributable to the human condition.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 27 Aug 2011, 07:41
The real basis of most Sci-Fi is the concept that one, seemingly overwhelming and impossible to overcome, problem has been figured out. Time travel, AI robotics, faster-than-light travel, genetics - it's usually one little thing that makes the difference.

A friend of mine in gradd school was in Nuclear Engineering.  He was constantly upset that the only work that recieved grants was for power generation and weapons, when all he wanted to work on was a propulsion device. 


We get what we pay for...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Aug 2011, 08:43
I'm not going to challenge your claim of being a 55-or-older computer programmer and genetics expert, but ... you know how that sounds, right?

Not really; eugenics had become unfashionable well before I was born.  All I'm saying is that I have seen many so-called breakthroughs come and go.

Quote
To me the above sounds vague and superstitious, like a "meddling in God's domain" hand-wave

Quite the opposite - I see the possibility that we might come up against the limits of strict computability within a finite physical space in trying to solve this problem, and a resort to technologies that involve probability and uncertainty then gives scope for variable answers without recourse to such flummery.

Quote
Evolution is a lot of things, but it's neither an efficiency expert nor an intelligent designer.

It's actually rather good at producing the "good enough" result, though, and that's why some effort has been put into trying to emulate some aspects of it in self-improving software.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 27 Aug 2011, 11:06
Evolution is a lot of things, but it's neither an efficiency expert nor an intelligent designer.

It's actually rather good at producing the "good enough" result, though, and that's why some effort has been put into trying to emulate some aspects of it in self-improving software.

Whenever studying biological systems, I'm always amazed at how efficient evolution has made them.  Nothing is wasted, and little is lost with the exception of some energy, which is a contribution to entropy anyway. 

As for the intelligence of the design, I find it better than "good enough".  In our own instance, for example, the kidney (which can be damaged by a blow to the back) has a built-in redundancy - we've got two, and can live fine with only one.  Most of the liver can be damaged (or even removed), and it still functions nearly perfectly.  More valuable systems are carefully protected - heart in the ribcage, brain in the skull, spinal cord in the .. spine.  It's not perfect (bleeding out from a small arterial cut, for example), but if it's not intelligent, at least it's damned clever. 

Oh, and how many systems store unused energy for later?  I've got about 30 - 40 pounds of it myself, conveniently located around my middle...   :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 27 Aug 2011, 13:14
If I understood pwhodges right, genetics comes into it because he was talking about the prospects for artificial life as opposed to artificial intelligence. There is a point of view which holds that you have to have an unintelligent base for an intelligence to work from, and that it is senses rather than logic that are the basis for cognition. This is diametrically opposed to the belief in AI research that AI is an easier problem than artificial life. Nobody can prove either one at our current state of knowledge.

Then there's the matter of our choice about what we will call "alive". If I understand pwhodges right, he would not call Charlotte a faithful emulation of a living being, while Charlotte's opinion is a matter of record. For my part I would say "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it".

Then there's a distinction to be made about the limits of algorithmic processing. We can be absolutely confident about some limits of algorithms, but solving the halting problem is not a precondition for intelligence. We have no idea whether Turing equivalence is adequate for matching human capabilities. The Church Hypothesis posits that it is adequte, but computability theory does not help us decide whether it's true.

EDIT: Additional AnthroPC discussion (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24620.0.html)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Aug 2011, 13:51
If the ability to make some decisions is all that's required for AI, we're not so far off; if the ability to function as recognisable robots in society is the aim, then the QC robots appear to have reached it; but if you want the decisions to be backed up by the whole depth of human experience, then I think we're hardly started. 

Can you picture your robot sales assistant going to the park for a lunch break, visiting the art gallery after work, climbing a tree at the weekend, spending six months doing VSO in Africa?  All things which richen the human experience, and feed into the ability to make decisions in matters that are not rather trivial.  Or if not those activities, some other mind (AI) broadening activity with equivalent effect.  Maybe R Daneel Olivaw was up to these things, but I don't imagine Charlotte is.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 27 Aug 2011, 13:57
Whoa, I haven't done any of that either. Be right back. I have some business (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1175) to attend to.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 27 Aug 2011, 13:57

A friend of mine in gradd school was in Nuclear Engineering.  He was constantly upset that the only work that recieved grants was for power generation and weapons, when all he wanted to work on was a propulsion device. 

But what kind of nuclear-powered propulsion device can be built that wouldn't irradiate the launch site and cause massive fallout? Reactors work great on sea-going vessels where they generate electricity to spin the propeller, but that won't move you through a vacuum.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 27 Aug 2011, 14:37
Is it cold in here? gave a nice summary IMHO. I apologize for any possible confusion created by pointing at provably undecidable questions (such as the halting problem). That is my knee-jerk reaction to any claim/expectation that computers/AI will soon be solve any problem.

Re: Nuclear propulsion. Any idea what the mechanism would be? If a nuclear reaction could eject used fuel (or ballast) at relativistic speeds that would make a fine rocket, but is that at all feasible? @Boradis: I think that most if not all commercial nuclear reactors generate electricity by first turning water into steam that then turns turbines. I may be wrong about this as I only read about this somewhere last spring during the Fukushima incident. I don't know how the reactors at nuclear powered submarines do it.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: HiFranc on 27 Aug 2011, 14:55
[...]
@Boradis: I think that most if not all commercial nuclear reactors generate electricity by first turning water into steam that then turns turbines. I may be wrong about this as I only read about this somewhere last spring during the Fukushima incident. I don't know how the reactors at nuclear powered submarines do it.

It's all of them (including ships and subs).  All nuclear reactors are are pretty expensive kettles. ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 27 Aug 2011, 15:01
Not really; eugenics had become unfashionable well before I was born.  All I'm saying is that I have seen many so-called breakthroughs come and go.

As have I. But what I meant was that the act of claiming seniority and credentials mid-discussion in a medium that does not allow for verification tends to sound convenient at best and like BS at worst. I too have professional experience that qualifies me to discuss these topics -- but since I'm not going to go into where I've worked why should you believe me?

But hey, it's always nice to encounter a fellow middle-aged person who's Internet savvy and likes comics.

Quite the opposite - I see the possibility that we might come up against the limits of strict computability within a finite physical space in trying to solve this problem, and a resort to technologies that involve probability and uncertainty then gives scope for variable answers without recourse to such flummery.

When you say things like "finite physical space" you're stepping into the realm of pure flummery. My brain is confined to a finite physical space yet it has no trouble making message board posts. Not surprisingly I side with those who think ascribing consciousness to a quantum layer of computing has yet to be demonstrated, and wouldn't solve anything anyhow.


It's actually rather good at producing the "good enough" result, though, and that's why some effort has been put into trying to emulate some aspects of it in self-improving software.

"Good enough" is another way of saying "sloppy as all hell." This little wad of meat in my skull thinks, therefore it is. But whatever processes gets it there are guaranteed to be so roundabout, inefficient and retarded that, when understood, emulation will be a lot simpler than it currently looks.


Whenever studying biological systems, I'm always amazed at how efficient evolution has made them.
Evolution just plain sucks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISg6j7BF02Q). I know this is his rant about intelligent design, but it also makes a good case for how incredibly inefficient, sloppy and haphazard evolution is. Not that it isn't amazing and all that, but anything that seems efficient only looks that way if you overlook the fact that it took about four billion years to arrive at that configuration. A good point WRT us comes up at the four minute mark in the above video where he points out we eat, breath and drink through the same hole, thereby guaranteeing a percentage of us will choke to death yearly. That's not efficient.

[...]
@Boradis: I think that most if not all commercial nuclear reactors generate electricity by first turning water into steam that then turns turbines. I may be wrong about this as I only read about this somewhere last spring during the Fukushima incident. I don't know how the reactors at nuclear powered submarines do it.

It's all of them (including ships and subs).  All nuclear reactors are are pretty expensive kettles. ;-)

That's exactly my point. You can't turn that into a rocket.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Aug 2011, 15:38
But what I meant was that the act of claiming seniority and credentials mid-discussion in a medium that does not allow for verification tends to sound convenient at best and like BS at worst.

I make no claim to "seniority" - I merely gave an explanation of why I think as I do.

Quote
I too have professional experience that qualifies me to discuss these topics -- but since I'm not going to go into where I've worked why should you believe me?

Because I have no reason not to.

"Good enough" is another way of saying "sloppy as all hell." This little wad of meat in my skull thinks, therefore it is. But whatever processes gets it there are guaranteed to be so roundabout, inefficient and retarded that, when understood, emulation will be a lot simpler than it currently looks.

Good enough means just that - it may be sloppy, or it may in fact not be.  Nothing in that "guarantees" that the brain is, as you suggest, a highly inefficient device; quite simply, we won't know either way about that until we understand it, which is a long, long way off.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 27 Aug 2011, 16:04
I get so fed up with this old chestnut.  The only difference between a binary file and a text file is how easily a human can read it at a superficial level.
Heh... Yes, and also edit it with simple, stable tools. But of course you are right, it's good or bad implementation that makes the difference.

I find speciesism in operating systems almost as annoying as you find racism in humans...
(I'm not saying that it is as harmful, but the underlying "logic" is pretty much the same, actually.)
Hmm... A response that, not unnaturally :wink:, gave me serious food for thought. I guess you're right, if you assign the same moral value to inanimate objects as human beings. Does preferring Holden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden) cars over Ford have the same logic as regarding Europeans as superior to Asians? Is there an issue of "exterior viewpoint", since people are not cars? Of course OSism would definitely become an issue on that level, if one ascribed "sentients' rights" to beings like Momo.



Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Aug 2011, 16:26
My point was not so much concerned with any moral aspect of the choice between operating systems as with the use of trivial, irrelevant or false information - or even simply unsubstantiated belief - to make that choice.

Oh, and I have come across unstable text editors too!
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: DSL on 27 Aug 2011, 16:40
I was once accused of being an unstable text editor.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 27 Aug 2011, 17:15
Hannelore chided Winslow for racism when he made disparaging remarks about non-sentient machines.

On the other subject, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: St.Clair on 27 Aug 2011, 18:47
Consider that if we ever do manage to perfectly simulate a human mind, the initial result will be a blank-slate sociopath with strong inherent desires that it can only communicate in the simplest terms, mostly by acting out... i.e., any newborn baby.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 27 Aug 2011, 19:21
I would hope that the AI mind would be fundamentally different from the human mind in some choice ways. After all, if we can perfectly emulate the human mind, then it seems it would at that point be appropriate to improve on the design since we understand this all so well. I imagine that what you speak of would be one of the first problems we'd work our way through in this hypothetical scenario. Aside from the fact that our base desires would have to be retooled to suit this new being and in some cases could probably be removed entirely it would probably be as simple as birthing them with a per-existing knowledge base of sorts. Nothing fancy, but basic language skills, traffic law, the functional purpose of the most common kitchen appliances and items of furniture.

After that it would be a much easier and quicker process as it learned about the rest of the world around it. Social conduct, various bits of how society functions like jobs and currency, etc etc. It would really be beneficial even without the problems that would arise from a stage of infancy in such a being.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 27 Aug 2011, 19:42
Consider that if we ever do manage to perfectly simulate a human mind, the initial result will be a blank-slate sociopath with strong inherent desires that it can only communicate in the simplest terms, mostly by acting out... i.e., any newborn baby.
Or Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 27 Aug 2011, 21:55
Consider that if we ever do manage to perfectly simulate a human mind, the initial result will be a blank-slate sociopath with strong inherent desires that it can only communicate in the simplest terms, mostly by acting out... i.e., any newborn baby.

"Hel-lo Doc-tor Fal-ken. Would you like to play a game?" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 28 Aug 2011, 07:37
First of all, I'm not a whining person. This is just pure curiosity (specially since english is not my mother tongue)

Is Jimbo wrong when he says "automatons" back in 1526? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1526)
I know wikipedia is not the best source ever but it says that automatons is acceptable like automata.

PS: I posted it here because a thread about it would be silly.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 28 Aug 2011, 07:58
Merriam Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automaton) says that both plural forms are ok. The native speakers may overrule.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: TinPenguin on 28 Aug 2011, 08:32
Personally, I'd feel inclined to slap anyone who kept saying 'automata'. At the end of the day, though, the 'correct' word is the one that conveys a meaning fluently from one person to another. Which both achieve.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 28 Aug 2011, 09:24
On the whole I prefer the native plurals to the original (e.g. forums, not fora).  However, I instinctively say automata rather than automatons, and I imagine that even you say data rather than datums.  That's leaving aside words in which some or all of the popular "plural" forms are actually completely wrong - like octopi (octopuses or octopodes) or virii (viruses - virus has no plural in Latin).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Aug 2011, 10:28
I think "automata" is more common in technical speech.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 28 Aug 2011, 10:30
Thanks fellas, I learned something today.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wiserd on 28 Aug 2011, 10:42
I would hope that the AI mind would be fundamentally different from the human mind in some choice ways. After all, if we can perfectly emulate the human mind, then it seems it would at that point be appropriate to improve on the design since we understand this all so well.

While that seems reasonable, the fact that pintsize has a sex drive suggests to me that human consciousness was copied somehow without being really understood. What else would explain such vestigial emotions?

I don't think that this is likely IRL, but it go a long way towards explaining the types of emotions that fairly technically-oriented machines have. (Granted, it's probably a plot device, but I'm trying to rationalize, here.)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 28 Aug 2011, 10:54
And yet it has been referenced that the AI's have certain generalized behavior patterns that are unique to them. Like their mysterious, unexplainable tendency to take on a human companion instead of taking a route that might offer a greater degree of independence.

If we're going back to the QC-verse here, I do think a mind was created without understanding it, but it's not an exact copy of the human mind either. Simply some new and fascinating mind that people don't yet understand to a greater degree than we understand our own.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: wiserd on 28 Aug 2011, 11:04

Evolution just plain sucks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISg6j7BF02Q). I know this is his rant about intelligent design, but it also makes a good case for how incredibly inefficient, sloppy and haphazard evolution is. Not that it isn't amazing and all that, but anything that seems efficient only looks that way if you overlook the fact that it took about four billion years to arrive at that configuration. A good point WRT us comes up at the four minute mark in the above video where he points out we eat, breath and drink through the same hole, thereby guaranteeing a percentage of us will choke to death yearly. That's not efficient.

1. To understand the quality of a process, you have to know it's goal. Evolved systems are remarkably more fault-tolerant and good at dealing with unexpected insults as compared to complex things humans design. There are trade-offs in evolution that are not always immediately apparent.

2. The results of evolution are not as random as many people tried to assert a few decades ago. If you change the location of genes relative to one another in one-celled organismis, they'll evolve back to their original positions. You have genes in microbes that overlap one another. You have large non-coding regions which have been shown to be functional, once calld "junk DNA." (Destroying them causes pathologies in the organism).  You have pseudogenes which have been shown to be capable of transcribing DNA in a functional manner. etc. The more we learn, the less random genomes seem.

3. Reuse of existing components is quite efficient. Would a separate orifice for eating and breathing increase risk of infection or dehydration? What would the costs be? In the ancestral environment, disease was the #1 killer, even if it isn't now. Far more people died from sickness than from choking.

Without knowing costs and benefits, it's hard to weigh the 'intelligence' of a particular design. Humans are particularly prone to choking compared to other animals because of adaptations which allow for speech. But I rather think that those adaptations were 'worth it.'

"Unfortunately, that flexible throat, so useful in talking, makes us susceptible to a form of sleep apnea that results from obstruction of the airway. During sleep, the muscles of the throat relax. In most people, this does not present a problem, but in some, the passage can collapse so that relatively long stretches pass without a breath. This, of course, can be very dangerous, particularly in people who have heart conditions. Snoring is a symptom of the same underlying problem.

Another trade-off of speech is choking. Our mouths lead both to the trachea, through which we breathe, and to the esophagus, so we use the same flexible passage to swallow, breathe, and talk. Those functions can be at odds, for example when a piece of food “goes down the wrong pipe” and gets lodged in the trachea; our fishy ancestors had no such worries. Other mammals, and reptiles too, use the same structures for eating, breathing, and communicating but the back of the mouth does not need to be so vertically spacious and flexible as ours. The basic mammalian structures are arranged so that nonhuman animals can safely swallow while breathing. Tweaking the engineering to enable us to talk has left us peculiarly vulnerable."
http://naturalhistorymag.com/features/04971/fish-out-of-water




It's all of them (including ships and subs).  All nuclear reactors are are pretty expensive kettles. ;-)



It seems a pity that some of the energy from EM radiation couldn't be recovered via the photo-electric effect.
Also, on a totally tangental note if we're really at "peak oil" (no clue if true) then we're also at peak helium. Helium comes from radioactive decay and is, ironically, mined. Hopefully, future reactors and nuclear waste dumps will give a thought to helium recovery.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 28 Aug 2011, 12:52
Whenever studying biological systems, I'm always amazed at how efficient evolution has made them.
Evolution just plain sucks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISg6j7BF02Q). I know this is his rant about intelligent design, but it also makes a good case for how incredibly inefficient, sloppy and haphazard evolution is. Not that it isn't amazing and all that, but anything that seems efficient only looks that way if you overlook the fact that it took about four billion years to arrive at that configuration. A good point WRT us comes up at the four minute mark in the above video where he points out we eat, breath and drink through the same hole, thereby guaranteeing a percentage of us will choke to death yearly. That's not efficient.

I like that video!  Not familiar with him, but certainly my knda guy.  However, there's really nothing in that about efficiency.  Somene else already mentioned the choking thing, and in fact fewer orifices is  more efficient - multiple purpose devices are always more efficient than single-purpose items.  While there are a lot of ways that we can fail, and yes, most of the universe is inhospitable to our  form of life, every inch of this ball is  covered with life (even deserts and the ocean floor - what we haven't killed off).  Fact is, evolution has managed to filll damn near every niche of this planet with some form of life, and it all works (well, worked) together, very efficiently.  Sure it took a long time to fill all those niches, it's an undirected process.  No one said to the spoonbill, "You know, you might get more bugs out of the mud if that were a little wider...". 

As for us, we're susceptible to a lot of things.  But our numbers are still growing, despite the chokings, deaths by accident, wars, birth defects, etc.  We are extremely well adapted to what we do. 

Of course, it may be the death of us, but that's the way the system works...

[...]
@Boradis: I think that most if not all commercial nuclear reactors generate electricity by first turning water into steam that then turns turbines. I may be wrong about this as I only read about this somewhere last spring during the Fukushima incident. I don't know how the reactors at nuclear powered submarines do it.

It's all of them (including ships and subs).  All nuclear reactors are are pretty expensive kettles. ;-)

That's exactly my point. You can't turn that into a rocket.

I'm no nuclear engineer.  I have no idea what kind of revolutionary propulsion system he had in mind, and neither do you.  Just because you can't adapt existing reactor systems to spaceflight doesn't mean there isn't some neutron-shedding reaction that will push a rocket through space!  My point was that the economic system dictates the directions of research in this country (and most of the rest of the world), so we don't get revolutionary breakthroughs very often, if ever. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 28 Aug 2011, 15:38
On the whole I prefer the native plurals to the original (e.g. forums, not fora).  However, I instinctively say automata rather than automatons, and I imagine that even you say data rather than datums.
Not to mention media instead of mediums, unless referring to people who claim to speak to the spirits of the dead. Except many (perhaps most) people use "data" and "media" as if they were singular. Plural forms of nouns are so unnecessary in any event. English-speakers are not confused by sheep, deer or salmon, and millions of Chinese and Japanese people do without plural forms entirely.

Edit: Campaign Against Plural Nouns would be CAPN. Say "Yes, CAP'N!"  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 28 Aug 2011, 16:27
If that's what he said, he has a grossly oversimplified view of the difficulties of space travel. It's not that we lost interest it's that orbital velocity is incredibly hard and escape velocity is even harder. Until a breakthrough in propulsion or materials comes along we're going to be stuck on one planet.
I've been thinking about this since you posted it, and I'm not sure that I buy it. I know that climbing out of the gravity well is very difficult, but it hasn't become any more so since Apollo 17 brought crewed spaceflight beyond Earth's orbit to an end. In 1972. Nearly 40 years ago. Using technology developed back in the 1960's. I was thinking about this when the final Space Shuttle mission ended. The Space Shuttle first made an orbital flight more than thirty years ago. The Russian Proton rocket first flew in 1965. I don't doubt that Proton, like the Shuttle, has undergone development since its first flight (the latest model first flew a decade ago), but could we not do better today if we only wanted to? Compare the pace of progress in space-launch technology with that in areas we really do care about, like mobile phones and killing people.

I think there is something in Jeph's idea that we, or at least our rulers, just lost interest. The technical hurdle has not grown any higher, but we're achieving less in leaping it than we did in 1968 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_8).  The political motivation for Apollo was primarily international dick-waving, and using space-flight for that just went out of fashion, until arguably my homeland started treading the same path (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_spacecraft).
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 28 Aug 2011, 17:03
Campaign Against Plural Nouns would be CAPN. Say "Yes, CAP'N!"  :-D

Aye, aye! 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Aug 2011, 18:20
Nuclear propulsion for the really hardcore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion))
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 28 Aug 2011, 18:27
That's leaving aside words in which some or all of the popular "plural" forms are actually completely wrong - like octopi (octopuses or octopodes) or virii (viruses - virus has no plural in Latin).
As for "-us" nouns, it depends on whether or not it's a second declension or a fourth declension noun.  (Most nouns are the first three declensions, fourth and fifth ones are rare).  For second declension, singular plural is -us/-i, for fourth declension, it's -us/-es.  It's not that virus doesn't have a plural, it's that it's a fourth declension noun.  That being said, while English isn't a Romance language, a lot of our words come from Latin.  Unless there's an actual reason (like viruses), it makes sense for -us to turn to -a by default.  Also, there are three genders in Latin (masculine, feminine, neuter), and all neuter plurals end in -a.[/classics major]

tl;dr, Both can be considered right, so no reason to give people shit for using the one they prefer.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 28 Aug 2011, 18:58
Nuclear propulsion for the really hardcode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion))
There are proposals for surface-to-orbit nuclear (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/enginelist.php#ntrgasclosed) rockets (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/surfaceorbit.php#id--GCNR_Liberty_Ship) that are less loopy than Orion, but they're well beyond our engineering capabilities (and certainly well beyond my capacity to evaluate properly). Maybe, if Carl-E's friend could have got some funding to work on them...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Aug 2011, 21:02
If your computer is sentient, and can be damaged by sketchy web sites, is it domestic violence to expose it to them?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 28 Aug 2011, 21:31
Why was she using Momo for that, anyway?  She has the other computer, with a monitor, so she can see the pretty pictures...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Aug 2011, 21:49
well beyond my capacity to evaluate properly

I'd be stunned if there's anyone in the world who can evaluate them properly. The real killer in high-risk technical projects is finding out, the hard way, answers to the questions you didn't know you should ask. There is a lot of terra incognita in those designs.

Which, maybe, are in use in the QC world? Hannerdad's space station is big enough to spin for 1-g without making everyone sick, and big enough that they use golf carts to get around (based on Hannelore's Formspring). That's a lot of material to lift if all you have are chemical rockets. Maybe there's a space elevator? They do seem to have made more progress than we have on carbon nanotubes.

(Or maybe it's all a joke by a webcomic author, but that hypothesis is no fun).

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 28 Aug 2011, 22:31
If your computer is sentient, and can be damaged by sketchy web sites, is it domestic violence to expose it to them?
It occurs to me to wonder exactly how far this goes in explaining Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Arancaytar on 28 Aug 2011, 22:51
Why was she using Momo for that, anyway?  She has the other computer, with a monitor, so she can see the pretty pictures...

As Momo pointed out when she was introduced, she has data-trawling capabilities that make her an autonomous personal search engine. (Pintsize seems to have the same, but he only ever uses it to search for porn).

So that raises the question of why they don't use Google.

Maybe Google left the search business? Or maybe it expanded the logging and surveillance of its free services to the point where nobody wants to use them. Or maybe the information on the net increased exponentially in the time leading up to the singularity, to the point where no central search engine can cope. Or Google was taken over by its AIs (who pooled their stock options) and now focuses on some other business entirely. (That last one would be my favorite theory.)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: pwhodges on 29 Aug 2011, 01:37
It's not that virus doesn't have a plural, it's that it's a fourth declension noun.

This is disputed (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/plural-of-virus.html)

Quote
The Roman grammarian Priscian (fl. 500 A.D.) states that some claim the word is indeclinable (i.e., has only one form for all the cases in the singular); others, apparently more accurately, that it is declined in the singular according to the second declension neuter and cite two passages from the poet Lucretius in substantiation. All of the ancient grammarians are in agreement, however, that the word is used in the singular only, which indeed appears to be true, for no plural forms are attested in extant Latin works.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: stoutfiles on 29 Aug 2011, 07:03
well beyond my capacity to evaluate properly

I'd be stunned if there's anyone in the world who can evaluate them properly. The real killer in high-risk technical projects is finding out, the hard way, answers to the questions you didn't know you should ask. There is a lot of terra incognita in those designs.

Which, maybe, are in use in the QC world? Hannerdad's space station is big enough to spin for 1-g without making everyone sick, and big enough that they use golf carts to get around (based on Hannelore's Formspring). That's a lot of material to lift if all you have are chemical rockets. Maybe there's a space elevator? They do seem to have made more progress than we have on carbon nanotubes.

(Or maybe it's all a joke by a webcomic author, but that hypothesis is no fun).



If I had to guess, they use dimensional portals like the ones Raven is learning about and successfully duplicated. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Aug 2011, 12:22
Pintsize used Google to look up Gina Riversmith for Faye, and Dora found Vespavenger on Google.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 30 Aug 2011, 01:55
I'm no nuclear engineer.  I have no idea what kind of revolutionary propulsion system he had in mind, and neither do you.  Just because you can't adapt existing reactor systems to spaceflight doesn't mean there isn't some neutron-shedding reaction that will push a rocket through space!  

There's plenty of reactions that will do just that. The problem is they irradiate the hell out of the launch site. The most famous of which being ...

Nuclear propulsion for the really hardcore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion))

I've been thinking about this since you posted it, and I'm not sure that I buy it. I know that climbing out of the gravity well is very difficult, but it hasn't become any more so since Apollo 17 brought crewed spaceflight beyond Earth's orbit to an end. In 1972. Nearly 40 years ago. Using technology developed back in the 1960's.

Unfortunately physics hasn't changed either since at least the epoch of inflation.

Advancing spacefight is not as straightforward or easy as Moore's Law. The issue with rockets isn't miniaturization or refinement of design -- it's power. All of the math involved in making a rocket fly has been known for centuries, so that's a very mature field. There's an unavoidable reason rockets are almost all fuel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion#Delta-v_and_propellant)

Further refinements can make them safer, but barring something radical like Orion or one of the other speculative nuclear rockets mentioned by Akima, they can't make them more powerful.

When I wrote (http://www.space.com/846-top-10-apollo-hoax-theories.html) these articles (the "Beanie Baby Satellite" story) (http://files.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/spaceviews/text/20001120.txt) I spoke with rocket scientists (http://utstaging.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/antimatter_sail_021029.html) routinely. It's not like they're sitting on their butts about things like this. They'd like nothing better than to put up more spacecraft. There's also a lot of money just waiting for someone to find a better way into space, even without there being oil on the Moon or whatever.

But until something more powerful and at least as safe as liquid oxygen plus kerosene or liquid hydrogen is discovered -- at least the power of a nuclear bomb without radiation -- it will take a Saturn V -worth to go anywhere beyond sub-orbital thrill rides.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 30 Aug 2011, 05:38
Yup. Just to give you some numbers. To reach a space orbit you need Mach 25 or thereabouts (don't want to do the math any more accurately), to climb out of Earth's gravity well you need about Mach 35. (this would be the speed you need to have when leaving atmosphere in order for the Earth to not pull you back in, unless you can keep accelerating after that point).

The X-15 (a U.S. test plane from the 1960s) reached Mach 6 and it was rocket powered (and needed to piggy-back a jet to get started, it couldn't take off on its own power). `Spaceship' One went a inch higher, but only reached Mach 3. I don't know what's the world record of jet powered aircrafts. I guess military planes may have topped Mach 3. AFAIK Concorde was the fastest commercial aircraft with a notch over Mach 2.

And I don't think that it is due to lack of funding for propulsion research. After all, any propulsion system could also be used to deliver weapons, so the military would support the idea, if it were at all feasible.

Looks like we need that space elevator. Getting to geostationary orbit "free of charge" reduces the escape velocity quite a bit. More importantly, upon re-entry you can give the energy back to something else on its way up.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 30 Aug 2011, 05:53
When I wrote (http://www.space.com/846-top-10-apollo-hoax-theories.html) these articles (the "Beanie Baby Satellite" story) (http://files.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/spaceviews/text/20001120.txt) I spoke with rocket scientists (http://utstaging.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/antimatter_sail_021029.html) routinely. It's not like they're sitting on their butts about things like this. They'd like nothing better than to put up more spacecraft. There's also a lot of money just waiting for someone to find a better way into space, even without there being oil on the Moon or whatever.
But that's the thing. We don't even have the same capability we had in 1968. There are no Saturn V rockets any more, never mind anything better using modern materials. We've gone backwards in our ability to lift payload into orbit, not forwards, for all the non-butt-sitting your rocket scientists have been doing. That isn't because the technical challenges became any greater, but because of political/managerial decisions.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 30 Aug 2011, 09:28
Technically there is still one nearly complete Saturn V stack left, but it was left out in all weathers for twenty years and I doubt it'd be ready to fly in less time than it would take to just build another one from the blueprints.

You're totally right about the main problem being not enough politicians with the balls to just come out and say "spaceflight is way more important than profiteering off wars you fucks! Let's get it done already!" though.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 30 Aug 2011, 09:48
OK, heard a joke that actually fits here...

Three surgeons were arguing over who was easiest to work on.  the first said, "Electricians - everything inside is color coded!"

The second sez "No, it's Librarians - everything's in alphabetical order!" 

The third one tells them they're both wrong.  "It's politicians.  There's no guts, no heart, no spine and no balls, and their head's interchangeable with their ass."
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: starkruzr on 30 Aug 2011, 11:25
Am I the only one who's a little surprised that anthro chassis as indistinguishably human as this new Momo one are actually allowed in the QCverse?

She could be a real girl (as distinct from a RealGirl™) with dyed hair and contacts.

This has Consequences®.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 30 Aug 2011, 11:35
When I wrote (http://www.space.com/846-top-10-apollo-hoax-theories.html) these articles (the "Beanie Baby Satellite" story) (http://files.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/spaceviews/text/20001120.txt) I spoke with rocket scientists (http://utstaging.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/antimatter_sail_021029.html) routinely. It's not like they're sitting on their butts about things like this. They'd like nothing better than to put up more spacecraft. There's also a lot of money just waiting for someone to find a better way into space, even without there being oil on the Moon or whatever.
But that's the thing. We don't even have the same capability we had in 1968. There are no Saturn V rockets any more, never mind anything better using modern materials. We've gone backwards in our ability to lift payload into orbit, not forwards, for all the non-butt-sitting your rocket scientists have been doing. That isn't because the technical challenges became any greater, but because of political/managerial decisions.

The thing is launching a single Saturn V which was, a DISPOSABLE rocket and launched 3 people in cramped conditions to the moon cost after inflation 1.11 Billion US Dollars. That just, isn't feasible unless there is a much better reason for GOING to the moon other than to just go. You can't use it to build anything resembling a permanent structure on the moon, you can't use it to mine the moon. There is just no good reason to go just to go without a much better way to get there.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 30 Aug 2011, 11:56
You don't irradiate the launch site if the nuclear rocket is an upper stage. I don't have the numbers handy, but I've seen them, and if you put a NERVA-type design on top of a Saturn first stage you get way more mass into orbit.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gopher on 30 Aug 2011, 12:47
The earlier questions about the timeline reminds me about when JMS was asked about the speed of spaceships in Babylon %. He said that they movec at the "Speed of plot", that is whatever was needed for teh drama. I feel teh QC time moves in a similar way.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 30 Aug 2011, 13:14
Am I the only one who's a little surprised that anthro chassis as indistinguishably human as this new Momo one are actually allowed in the QCverse?

She could be a real girl (as distinct from a RealGirl™) with dyed hair and contacts.

This has Consequences®.

Actually, no, considering Eve from AppleGeeks has shown up in the strip. She's essentially a home-built APC made from Mac parts, and she does look realistic.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Skewbrow on 30 Aug 2011, 13:35
I didn't know about  NERVA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA). Not a surprise actually given that in my youth I was definitely more interested in the math/physics of space travel as opposed to the engineering problems. That Wikipedia article tells the story, but I also get the vibe that whoever wrote it, is not a great fan of Nixon administration.

IIRC one of the goals of the Space Shuttle program was the reusability of the components - like that huge tank of propellant would be the only part that was irretrievably lost after a launch? Does anyone here know, whether the thruster rockets (or whatever) were actually successfully retrieved? That aspect of the shuttle program has not received much publicity since the early launches. Could you lift a rocket high enough with those for a safe ignition of a NERVA? Probably not?

As much as I would like to see human beings on Mars in my lifetime, I have little right to complain, for it ain't my tax dollar paying for it. An international effort might be able to pay for it, but I don't see much public support for such a program. The first space race was very much about national pride on both sides, I think.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Boradis on 30 Aug 2011, 13:47
But that's the thing. We don't even have the same capability we had in 1968. There are no Saturn V rockets any more, never mind anything better using modern materials. We've gone backwards in our ability to lift payload into orbit, not forwards, for all the non-butt-sitting your rocket scientists have been doing. That isn't because the technical challenges became any greater, but because of political/managerial decisions.
The technical challenges have remained the same, and you're right about the funding cuts. But the real bottom line, IMO, is that the technical challenge -- in other words the propulsion problem -- are a pretty big deal.

Check out the first three vehicles in this image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saturn-V_Shuttle_Ares-I_Ares-V_comparison_%2806-2006%29.jpg). How much of each actually contains crew/payload and how much is whopping big fuel tanks? The answers are "hardly any," and "pretty much the whole thing."

Even if our economy was booming to the degree it was in the 50s/60s the reason we haven't gone back to the moon is right there in the design of the Saturn V. By my eyeball estimate it looks like 275 feet of fuel to send and return 10 feet of crew/cargo (I'm kind of handwaving over the LEM and Control Module).

If a car had the same fuel/passenger ratio it would be the size of a Saturn V. Why do I say that? Because the Command Module is only about as big as a compact car (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Saturn_v_schematic.jpg).

Can you imagine driving that to Grandma's?

You don't irradiate the launch site if the nuclear rocket is an upper stage.

Maybe it won't irradiate the launch site but it's still a nice big fallout fire hose. Especially if they get used routinely, which I think we all want.

Am I the only one who's a little surprised that anthro chassis as indistinguishably human as this new Momo one are actually allowed in the QCverse?


Agreed. How long until we or Jeph forget Momo's a robot?
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: gangler on 30 Aug 2011, 13:58
Am I the only one who's a little surprised that anthro chassis as indistinguishably human as this new Momo one are actually allowed in the QCverse?

She could be a real girl (as distinct from a RealGirl™) with dyed hair and contacts.

This has Consequences®.

Actually, no, considering Eve from AppleGeeks has shown up in the strip. She's essentially a home-built APC made from Mac parts, and she does look realistic.

What I don't get is why an AI would want to look like a human. Soft, weak, bags of meat. A monument to mortality. Like modeling yourself after an egg with a timed explosive inside.

I'd think they were mocking us, but Momo doesn't seem like the type.

It's gotta be part of the cultural upbringing or something. I wonder if AI's that are raised in places without the pervasive sense of human superiority have an interest in emulating our appearance?

Although it could just as easily be that their libido is such that humans are what they're interested in, thus making the basic aesthetic value of looking human hold a lot of appeal to them. Not to belabor a point, but if you're into human men, and you identify as female, then it's not such a stretch to want to pass for a human female.

All in all it's all quite interesting. There almost seems that there could be an entire field of psychology based around studying AI's.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 30 Aug 2011, 14:11
Skewbrow; the Shuttle itself was never meant to operate like it ended up doing; the initial design concepts were all two-component, with both being manned and reusable: The Orbiter would ride the back of a sub-orbital aircraft then detach and use its own engines to boost itself to orbital altitude and speed.
Then someone decided hat the reusable booster was too expensive and designed a SSTO version.
Then someone else decided that the cargo space was too small on that design and gave it an external, disposable, fuel tank.
Then yet another someone figured out that the whole thing was too heavy to get off the ground like that and bolted on the reusable boosters.
And thus the new 'cheaper' design ended up with less reusable components and greater per-flight costs than the original specification and still cost more than the disposable systems that came before and after.

(the white firework boosters are reusable and were re-used)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 30 Aug 2011, 15:35
I'm not sure if we're still doing this, but this is the strip where I started high school!

Edit: Oops, should've put this in the other thread.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: questionablecontentfan on 30 Aug 2011, 15:37


What I don't get is why an AI would want to look like a human. Soft, weak, bags of meat.


But ohhh so beautiful...in some cases.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 30 Aug 2011, 16:21
Even if our economy was booming to the degree it was in the 50s/60s the reason we haven't gone back to the moon is right there in the design of the Saturn V. By my eyeball estimate it looks like 275 feet of fuel to send and return 10 feet of crew/cargo (I'm kind of handwaving over the LEM and Control Module).
I'm a numbers kind of girl, and the Saturn V had the capacity to lift 119000kg to Low Earth Orbit, or 4.9 times the Space Shuttle's capacity. Or to put it another way, you'd need five Shuttle launches to equal one Saturn V launch. I've found it pretty much impossible to find non-rubbery figures for the cost per launch of either Saturn V or Shuttle, so it is very hard to work out how the cost-to-orbit-per-kilogramme compares. There is a school of thought that argues (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/146/1) that heavy lift capacity is actually a bad thing that would discourage space exploration in the long term, but I'm not so sure.

Contrary to popular belief, NASA's budget isn't that large. It's been at or below one percent of total Federal expenditures (PDF file) (http://www.richardb.us/nasa.pdf) since 1976. That doesn't help the public perception problem, but still.

The thing is launching a single Saturn V which was, a DISPOSABLE rocket and launched 3 people in cramped conditions to the moon cost after inflation 1.11 Billion US Dollars.
Then US operations in Iraq and Afganistan cost (http://armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/gwot_spending_burn_rate/) something like ten Saturn V launches per month. It's all a matter of priorities.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 30 Aug 2011, 17:20
Another factor in the turning away from the Lunar missions was what was going on in South-east Asia, and the events surrounding them.  One wonders what might have happened had Kennedy not gotten murdered in Dallas and the events post that had not gone as they had.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Akima on 30 Aug 2011, 21:41
Another factor in the turning away from the Lunar missions was what was going on in South-east Asia, and the events surrounding them.  One wonders what might have happened had Kennedy not gotten murdered in Dallas and the events post that had not gone as they had.
Who know? But Kennedy was the president who said, after meeting Khrushchev in Vienna, "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/goldzwig.htm)", increased the number of US military personel in Vietnam from under 1000 to over 16000 before his death, and connived at the coup that toppled Ngo Dinh Diem, so probably not much would have been different. Kennedy was reluctant to commit US combat forces, resisting Robert McNamara's suggestion that six divisions be sent to Vietnam, but the coup pitched South Vietnam into chaos, reducing rather than enhancing its ability to resist, and had he lived St. Jack would have faced the same pressure that Johnson did to "raise or fold". I've never been able to buy into the "if Kennedy had lived, everything would have been different" school of US historical hagiography.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 30 Aug 2011, 21:47
I think things would be pretty different if Kennedy had lived, but not that Kennedy.  If RFK hadn't been assassinated, and went on to win the general election in 1968, I'm pretty sure that would've changed some things significantly.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: snubnose on 31 Aug 2011, 01:58
If that's what he said, he has a grossly oversimplified view of the difficulties of space travel. It's not that we lost interest it's that orbital velocity is incredibly hard and escape velocity is even harder. Until a breakthrough in propulsion or materials comes along we're going to be stuck on one planet.
I've been thinking about this since you posted it, and I'm not sure that I buy it. I know that climbing out of the gravity well is very difficult, but it hasn't become any more so since Apollo 17 brought crewed spaceflight beyond Earth's orbit to an end. In 1972. Nearly 40 years ago. Using technology developed back in the 1960's. I was thinking about this when the final Space Shuttle mission ended. The Space Shuttle first made an orbital flight more than thirty years ago. The Russian Proton rocket first flew in 1965. I don't doubt that Proton, like the Shuttle, has undergone development since its first flight (the latest model first flew a decade ago), but could we not do better today if we only wanted to? Compare the pace of progress in space-launch technology with that in areas we really do care about, like mobile phones and killing people.

I think there is something in Jeph's idea that we, or at least our rulers, just lost interest. The technical hurdle has not grown any higher, but we're achieving less in leaping it than we did in 1968 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_8).  The political motivation for Apollo was primarily international dick-waving, and using space-flight for that just went out of fashion, until arguably my homeland started treading the same path (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_spacecraft).
I dont really get your posting.

Yes the technology to reach the moon is known now. Its chemistry. All our rockets use chemistry.

Chemistry has a simple property: the most powerful reaction of all chemistry is the one of hydrogen and oxygen.

So yes, our most efficient rocket designs use exactly that, hydrogen and oxygen.

So yes, there is no way to store more energy into a rocket. The Saturn V used it. The Space Shuttle used it. Neither are pure hydrogen / oxygen concepts, but the overall performance is close to maximal to what we could possibly do.

We cant go further than that because there is simply no technological way known to us, not even at the far horizont, that would allow us to pack more energy into a certain weight. Nuclear reactors are crazy complicated and super heavy machines. Solar energy is much too little at a time that you could get something into orbit with it. The space elevator is a nice idea but I doubt that it will ever work even if we find a material that could theoretically do it. Just realize this material will be bombarded with our own garbage in orbit.

So there has been no huge progress in this area simply because we have no real option there.

Once someone finds a way to create the "impulse drive" described in Star Trek, i.e. a drive that accellerates small amounts of matter to extreme speeds compareable to those in the large hadron collider, and another technology that is as efficient as nuclear power, but with much less radiation issues and thus can be created very lightweight, we can have something like a star trek shuttle and fly into orbit and beyond easily.

But there is no such option available to us right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 31 Aug 2011, 02:39
Cesium and fluorine has way more energy content, but not on a per-mass basis, and hydrogen-fluorine produces highly toxic exhaust.

Chlorine trifluoride was investigated as an oxidizer, able to supply fluorine at high density without cryogenics. It has industrial uses, but it's hard to safely handle something that sets concrete on fire and explodes all but the cleanest and driest protective gear.

Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 31 Aug 2011, 02:56
Britain's rocket research program (yes, we had one :P) used a kerosene/peroxide mix (yes, that's right, our rockets were powered by blonde).

From the Wikipedia article on the Bristol Siddeley Gamma

Quote
Use of kerosene / hydrogen peroxide engines has been a particularly British trait in rocket development, there being few comparable engines (such as the LR-40) from the USA.[4]

The combustion of kerosene with hydrogen peroxide is given by the formula

    CH2 + 3H2O2 → CO2 + 4H2O

where CH2 is the approximate formula of kerosene (see RP-1 for a discussion of kerosene rocket fuels). This compares with the combustion of kerosene and liquid oxygen (LOX)

    CH2 + 1.5O2 → CO2 + H2O

showing that the exhaust from kerosene / peroxide is predominantly water. This results in a very clean exhaust (second only to cryogenic LO2/LH2) and a distinctive clear flame.[5] The low molecular mass of water also helps to increase rocket thrust performance.[6]

The oxidizer used with Gamma was 85% High Test Peroxide (HTP), H2O2. Gamma used a silver-plated on nickel-gauze catalyst to first decompose the peroxide.[7] For higher concentrations of H2O2 another catalyst would have been required, such as platinum. No ignition source was required since the very hot decomposed H2O2 is hypergolic (will spontaneously combust) with kerosene. Due to the high ratio (8:1) of the mass of H2O2 used compared to the kerosene, and also its superior heat characteristics, the H2O2 may also be used to regeneratively cool the engine nozzle before combustion. Any pre-combustion chamber used to power the pump turbines needs only to decompose H2O2 to provide the energy. This gives the efficiency advantages of closed cycle operation, without its usual major engineering problems.

All of these characteristics lead to kerosene / hydrogen peroxide engines being simpler and more reliable to construct than other liquid propellant chemistries. Gamma had a remarkably reliable service record for a rocket engine. Of the 22 Black Knight and 4 Black Arrow launchers, involving 128 Gamma engines, there were no engine failures.[6]

Probably the most famous British rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 31 Aug 2011, 03:07
Chemistry has a simple property: the most powerful reaction of all chemistry is the one of hydrogen and oxygen.
Whilst it's adorable that you stated that like its a fact, please stop.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 31 Aug 2011, 09:31
Probably the most famous British rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow)

I wish it had been called Black Adder instead of Black Arrow. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 31 Aug 2011, 09:33
If your computer is sentient, and can be damaged by sketchy web sites, is it domestic violence to expose it to them?
It occurs to me to wonder exactly how far this goes in explaining Pintsize.

I would like to go into it, but i'm remotely afraid it'll cross the line into the whole "No Shipping" rules in effect.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Jedit on 31 Aug 2011, 10:03
Britain's rocket research program (yes, we had one :P) used a kerosene/peroxide mix (yes, that's right, our rockets were powered by blonde).

Well, that explains why we British think having our own space program is a pretty dumb idea.

Sorrysorrysorrysorrysorry.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 31 Aug 2011, 10:59
Our political class is also powered by blonde  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 31 Aug 2011, 11:47
If your computer is sentient, and can be damaged by sketchy web sites, is it domestic violence to expose it to them?
It occurs to me to wonder exactly how far this goes in explaining Pintsize.

I would like to go into it, but i'm remotely afraid it'll cross the line into the whole "No Shipping" rules in effect.

Really?  I don't see this as shipping, unless you're suggestuing that Marten abnd Pintsize...

Oh.  Nevermind. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Mark7 on 31 Aug 2011, 12:37
Has anyone shipped Pintsize and Winslow?

Yes; I went there :P
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Carl-E on 31 Aug 2011, 12:42
I'm sure someone  has. 



Just not here...




Tht's neither an offer, nor a challenge. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Kugai on 31 Aug 2011, 14:08
I think things would be pretty different if Kennedy had lived, but not that Kennedy.  If RFK hadn't been assassinated, and went on to win the general election in 1968, I'm pretty sure that would've changed some things significantly.

An interesting point. 
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 31 Aug 2011, 14:12
If your computer is sentient, and can be damaged by sketchy web sites, is it domestic violence to expose it to them?
It occurs to me to wonder exactly how far this goes in explaining Pintsize.

I would like to go into it, but i'm remotely afraid it'll cross the line into the whole "No Shipping" rules in effect.

Really?  I don't see this as shipping, unless you're suggestuing that Marten abnd Pintsize...

Oh.  Nevermind.  

That never crossed my mind, but........EEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!! (http://youtu.be/m5z5U_xd8EU?t=2m54s)
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 31 Aug 2011, 16:38
If AnthroPCs have a Second Law, then does ordering one to have sex with you when it doesn't want to constitute rape?

If they're legally children, well, ...
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Method of Madness on 31 Aug 2011, 18:22
I'm pretty sure Asimov's laws don't apply, because those laws imply that AI exists solely to serve humanity, while in the QCverse, they both seem to fill their own roles in society, with AIs not necessarily being under humans.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: starkruzr on 31 Aug 2011, 20:00
Am I the only one who's a little surprised that anthro chassis as indistinguishably human as this new Momo one are actually allowed in the QCverse?

She could be a real girl (as distinct from a RealGirl™) with dyed hair and contacts.

This has Consequences®.

Actually, no, considering Eve from AppleGeeks has shown up in the strip. She's essentially a home-built APC made from Mac parts, and she does look realistic.
I don't remember this at all, but I'll take your word for it.  That would at least produce more precedent.  But there are still a lot of weird issues that go along with this to think about.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: cesariojpn on 31 Aug 2011, 23:18
Marigold and Momo look like Mother/Daughter.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: jwhouk on 01 Sep 2011, 06:01
Quote from: ME
Actually, no, considering Eve from AppleGeeks has shown up in the strip. She's essentially a home-built APC made from Mac parts, and she does look realistic.
I don't remember this at all, but I'll take your word for it.  That would at least produce more precedent.  But there are still a lot of weird issues that go along with this to think about.

Oh, don't take my word (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=855) for it... go check out Eve and AppleGeeks (http://www.applegeeks.com/comics/viewcomic.php?issue=562) for yourself.
Title: Re: WCDT 22-26 August 2011 (1996-2000)
Post by: Jedit on 01 Sep 2011, 16:25
  I don't see this as shipping, unless you're suggestuing that Marten abnd Pintsize...

Jeph beat you to that one.  Link is somewhere in the last two WCDT threads, but it was right after he broke up with Dora.