Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: pwhodges on 05 Nov 2011, 03:34

Title: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 05 Nov 2011, 03:34
End of the CD (http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=P46980_0_2_0)?

Classical commentary (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=rfoeggeab&v=001P8PqTJg1cRHXqdK8vN3GYFwFi2d4v7UcKXLdBOKXY8qacK0DaNlKtkwgsrJO9_828FQlJelixtVgpBSjitXD29aW9GZatloJfEyI4mMZf14rVEn09hAj8w%3D%3D).

How do you feel about this?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: valley_parade on 05 Nov 2011, 07:25
I've been buying vinyl only for the past 2-3 years anyway.

Adios, CD.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: schimmy on 05 Nov 2011, 08:44
I have bought a total of one CD in the past three years, and it's been even longer since I bought vinyl. I don't know anybody in my age group that still buys physical media, (or buys music, full stop, but that's another discussion) and all I can say is... so what? I don't see CDs having any advantage at all over downloads, and think that pretty much everything I value about the music I listen to is aided by the existence of the internet, whilst the use of physical media as the means of distribution was only ever a limiting factor.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: ALoveSupreme on 05 Nov 2011, 08:45
Good riddance.  

I mean, I hope the production of CDs aren't abandoned all together, as it's incredibly expensive for d.i.y. bands to produce vinyl and selling a physical item at a show trumps selling a "download card" or something.  Tapes are good too, but most people don't "actually" have tape decks.  But the mentioning of tapes being in production I guess means CDRs or whatever will probably stick around.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: celticgeek on 05 Nov 2011, 09:04
This is something that has been coming for a while, since almost everybody has access to digital formats in some way or other. 

I like to buy CDs from small unknown groups at their concerts, so I can get them autographed.  This may be a problem for me, although some of these groups produce their own CDs, so they may still be available for quite some time. 

I also like to rip the CDs I own to the .flac format, but not very many digital download websites have that format available, (bandcamp.com being an exception). 

I have purchased music in digital format from amazon.com (although they no longer support my operating system, and they want you to put your music in the cloud), cdbaby.com (they do not have .flac available), as well as some other places, most of which only support .mp3 formats.

So I will miss CDs, but I probably will continue to download music in digital format. 

Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 05 Nov 2011, 14:55
The music industry still makes more than 80 percent of their total revenue with physical media (at least in Australia and Germany), so why would they abandon them?

Data for Australia:
http://www.aria.com.au/documents/ARIAreleases2009wholesalesalefigures.pdf (http://www.aria.com.au/documents/ARIAreleases2009wholesalesalefigures.pdf)

Data for Germany:
http://www.musikindustrie.de/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FAbb1-umsatz-digitalverkaeufe.jpg&width=800m&height=600m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20style%3D%22margin%3A0%3B%20background%3A%23fff%3B%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript%3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5=337e3e62c21f3eb067e12d3bac49f5d3 (http://www.musikindustrie.de/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FAbb1-umsatz-digitalverkaeufe.jpg&width=800m&height=600m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20style%3D%22margin%3A0%3B%20background%3A%23fff%3B%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript%3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5=337e3e62c21f3eb067e12d3bac49f5d3)

The problem is that the downloads are mostly single track downloads which look impressive in the number of units sold but don't contribute that much in terms of sales. To change this, the number of album downloads will have to increase substantially and this will certainly take more than just one year.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 07 Nov 2011, 06:49
I'm fine with this. I haven't bought a CD released by a major label in ages. I mostly buy vinyl and cassettes and download a lot of other stuff. I think smaller labels will continue to put out CDs and CD-rs for some time now. If cassettes haven't died yet on the small label scene - and I could name at least a dozen labels that only put out cassettes off the top of my head and a couple dozen more that put out tapes along with their other output - CDs have a lot of life in them yet on that level. For smaller bands, CDs still make the most sense since, as mentioned, vinyl is expensive and download codes are kind of lame, something a lot of people probably won't buy. If I don't have to walk past the latest U2 and Katy Perry album in a record store by the end of the next year, I don't see anything wrong with that. Also less waste is always good.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 07 Nov 2011, 08:37
I own more than 300 cds and buy cds on a regular basis.... So it goes without saying that this is terrible for me.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: TinPenguin on 12 Nov 2011, 17:40
Luckily, in the genres I listen to (mostly metal), there is still a lot of value placed on the CD by the community. It would be unwise for the metal labels to stop CD production. I imagine the same is true for a lot of other smaller genres/labels. There does seem to be a correlation between people who listen to less-mainstream music and people who still like physical copies of it.

Physical format will never die out completely. It'll always be there, because there will always be a demand for it (in the foreseeable future). Perhaps it needs to evolve beyond the CD and find a format that can compete with download in this digital age, but unfortunately most investors wouldn't invest in such a development, because of this constant hammering insistence that physical is dead. It ain't.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: smack that isaiah on 12 Nov 2011, 18:15
I, too, do not wish to see the decline of the CD.  I have tons and tons of them, and I love buying them.  I do also buy vinyl, but typically I only go after specific albums that I extremely thoroughly enjoy, and I end up having said album on both CD and vinyl. (I don't want to buy all of my music on vinyl)

w/r/t the "physical format evolving beyond the CD format" you mentioned, I remember seeing things previously of bands selling new albums on collectable usb thumb drives with the band's name/logo on them, with the music in flac or other lossless formatting.  I haven't seen any deals/offers like that lately, but if one of my favorite bands offered up something like a thumb drive with music on it, I'd buy it up in a heartbeat.

One thing I already dislike about the whole digital download thing is the dissolution of the "album" as a concept/piece (I don't mean concept albums or rock-opera type deals, I just mean the creation of an album as its own musical entity).  With such an ability for people to only download the latest single/individual song they like, it seems a number of musicians/producers are caring less and less about the structuring of an album--flow of songs, arrangements, etc.  (e.g. how often do you see CD's (particularly pop) that are quite obviously just structured "1st hit single, 2nd single, slightly less popular song, 3rd single, cliche slow song, album starts to wind down now since there will be no more singles till the next summer, etc..."?)

I have purchased music in digital format from amazon.com (although they no longer support my operating system, and they want you to put your music in the cloud)
assuming you use linux, amazon's music downloading is still available for you/us.  My dad downloads singles all the time, and amazon's his preferred place to get music (and he uses linux).  I don't like to download albums, but if I have no choice (can't track down physical cd/shipping's too damn high), I've gone to amazon to do so and been successful (w/o booting up WINE or turning on a windows comp).  You do have to put the music in their cloud, but you can easily download from there to your comp, as I've done before.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 13 Nov 2011, 05:59
I think people are equating the actions of the giant corporate music entertainment industry - which is and pretty much always has been all about profit before artistry - with what all musicians and all labels will now be doing and that simply isn't the case. How many CDs have you all bought recently from one the major corporate labels? I'm sure the answer is "a few" but it's probably not all that many. The reason I'm assuming that (perhaps incorrectly) is that your complaints about a non-concern for the physical and a lack of interest in producing an album that is a cohesive piece of work rather than a game of leap frog from one generic, radio-ready single to the next have been true about a vast majority of major label releases for ages, CDs or no. It's undeniably been the case at least the better part of the 00s and before that as well. My point is, this news does NOT mean "the end of the CD is coming." For smaller labels and the musicians on them that actually care about music and care about "The Album" as an artistic medium - that is, people who see the value in an album making sense, having an intentional flow, etc . - labels, in other words, that cater to a more dedicated, patient fanbase that demands higher quality music both aesthetically and in terms of the literal sound not being artificially degraded, the CD is here to stay, definitely for the foreseeable future. Vinyl is still very popular as are cassettes (albeit in a more niche way). The fears that soon no one will be putting out CDs are unwarranted on a lot of levels so really, unless you only listen to radio pop AND also care deeply about sound quality and physicality and so on, there's no need to despair at this news.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 14 Nov 2011, 08:38
I don't feel happy or sad about it. It's just a medium. People listen to more music than ever before and upcoming bands don't have to go through some fucking record company to distribute their music all over the world, they just need to put up a facebook and youtube channel. It's just great. The record industry can go and die right now for all I care. (and by record industry I don't mean the music industry)
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 14 Nov 2011, 09:02
I guess there aren't many people left that give personal value to the medium. I do that... I like everything. Not just the cd... The booklet, the artwork,etc and to me it's kind of meh if that would only be sold as a file. Vinyls are unfortunately too expensive for me to buy so cds were always the better option.
I fully understand the environmental part of the issue but that's just the way I think about music and I will never change my mind about it.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 14 Nov 2011, 15:07
I've never seen a vinyl more expensive than a CD though.  :?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: celticgeek on 14 Nov 2011, 15:31

I have purchased music in digital format from amazon.com (although they no longer support my operating system, and they want you to put your music in the cloud)

assuming you use linux, amazon's music downloading is still available for you/us.  My dad downloads singles all the time, and amazon's his preferred place to get music (and he uses linux).  I don't like to download albums, but if I have no choice (can't track down physical cd/shipping's too damn high), I've gone to amazon to do so and been successful (w/o booting up WINE or turning on a windows comp).  You do have to put the music in their cloud, but you can easily download from there to your comp, as I've done before.

I do use Linux (Linux Mint 11 64-bit, in fact).  Again, I do not want my music in the cloud, I want it on my computer.  Plus, 2 (or 10) Gbytes is too small.  I have about 130 GBytes of music on my computer, not counting duplicates for playlists, or zipped files.  And I prefer to use .flac for my music.  I tend to download whole albums, rather than individual songs.  I have been downloading music from bandcamp.com, which has .flac files available.  And looking for other sites which have .flac files available. 

I have downloaded music from various other sites (cdbaby.com, itsaboutmusic.com) even though they do not have .flac files available, either.  It depends on whether I can  get the music I want from other sources. 
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 15 Nov 2011, 06:45
I've never seen a vinyl more expensive than a CD though.  :?

LOLWUT?! Are they cheaper where you live?
Here (Sweden) they are like... twice the price. Brand new that is, I'm not talking about used records.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: TheFuriousWombat on 15 Nov 2011, 07:28
yeah vinyl is always more than CDs in my experience.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 15 Nov 2011, 13:39
Hehe.. I'm Swedish too. Twice the price, that ridiculous. To be honest, I probably need to retract my statement a bit, since I only buy used CD's and vinyls, which are always comparable in price. And from my experience vinyls are often cheaper.

Where you from, Mr. Doctor?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 15 Nov 2011, 15:12
Helsingborg although I lived in Norrköping before.
Of course the used ones are cheap, I only talked about new ones. But yeah, the difference wasn't that big as I thought at first. 180 SEK seems to be the average while most of the new cds I usually buy are between 100-150. I'm not into the whole "buying things twice" and I sure as hell don't feel like buying a record player. With my discman is more than enough.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 16 Nov 2011, 02:33
Cool, I'm from Lund.

CD's are 100-150 now? Damn, I guess it's been years since I bought a new CD. They used to be closer to 180. I guess that just reflects that fewer CD's are sold, a trend which will almost certainly continue.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 16 Nov 2011, 03:01
Dude.... I go to Lund's university! hahahahha This is getting creepy... If you tell me that you are studying in the "math house" this will be just "hanners-creepy" and I will think that you're a stalker.

I buy a lot of my stuff online though. So my prices are from websites like cdon.com where they usually have lots of random discounts but the most expensive I usually buy for is 159 SEK. On the regular stores in town the cds du cost around 180 so the prices haven't really changed since online stores are always cheaper anyways. I buy used cds to, the cost around 60-80 here.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 16 Nov 2011, 09:35
Naw, I go to juridicum, I have no stalker intentions!  8-)

(I'm just a lawyer, bad enough I guess)

And... nothing more to add to the discussion. I guess.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Barmymoo on 25 Nov 2011, 16:34
I don't know quite why but I feel that my music is safer on CDs - I worry that if it only exists as a downloaded file, it would be easier to lose.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on 25 Nov 2011, 18:20
w/r/t the "physical format evolving beyond the CD format" you mentioned, I remember seeing things previously of bands selling new albums on collectable usb thumb drives with the band's name/logo on them, with the music in flac or other lossless formatting.  I haven't seen any deals/offers like that lately, but if one of my favorite bands offered up something like a thumb drive with music on it, I'd buy it up in a heartbeat.

We were thinking of doing something like this with my band (we're about to begin recording an EP) but frankly the cost involved is prohibitive. When CDs are so cheap to produce and stamp etc... And when, especially here in Australia, it's really expensive to buy physical music (most new albums will be going for $30 to $40 if it's from a major label).

One thing I already dislike about the whole digital download thing is the dissolution of the "album" as a concept/piece (I don't mean concept albums or rock-opera type deals, I just mean the creation of an album as its own musical entity).  With such an ability for people to only download the latest single/individual song they like, it seems a number of musicians/producers are caring less and less about the structuring of an album--flow of songs, arrangements, etc.  (e.g. how often do you see CD's (particularly pop) that are quite obviously just structured "1st hit single, 2nd single, slightly less popular song, 3rd single, cliche slow song, album starts to wind down now since there will be no more singles till the next summer, etc..."?)

Speaking as a musician, I can definitely say that both my band and other bands that we know are starting to shy away from the traditional album concept. We've talked about it at length and for a band like ours whose tracks are at minimum 6 minutes long (maximum is about 15 minutes) recording and releasing a full 10 or 12 track album and selling it at shows for $15-$20 is silly when we can release three 4 track EPs over the course of 18 months and sell them at shows for $10 each. I don't mean to say that all this reasoning is based on what we think an appropriate dollar price for 25-30 minutes of music is, but rather that the amount of time it takes to adequately record and produce our music and the amount of money it costs us to do so, not to mention how long it takes us to write new material, doesn't really justify sticking to that existing album paradigm.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 25 Nov 2011, 23:26
I don't know quite why but I feel that my music is safer on CDs - I worry that if it only exists as a downloaded file, it would be easier to lose.

Curiously (as my job involves keeping clinical trials data safely on hard disks) I feel the same; however, I had to have a number of CDs replaced because of "CD rot" (a major factory made a whole lot of CDs with incorrect sealing, so that the reflective layer oxidised over the next ten years, and they became unreadable).  Now that even some commercially sold CD are CD-R type, this can happen again.

I have a lot of time for the idea of selling music on USB sticks, though that's only cost-effective for a substantial amount (the USB "apple" of the Beatles output is a case in point).
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: bicostp on 02 Feb 2012, 23:10
I haven't bought a new CD in ages.

Used CDs, on the other hand...
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Welu on 03 Feb 2012, 04:36
I've bought a total of two CDs for myself in my life. I do know people who buy CDs often enough though. My dad is one because he's in the car a lot and doesn't have nor want a way to hook up an MP3 player to it.

I've never seen local bands in my area sell music on USB drives but wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

I don't know quite why but I feel that my music is safer on CDs - I worry that if it only exists as a downloaded file, it would be easier to lose.

Even though I don't have many CDs, I understand this feeling. Hence why I have three back-ups of everything.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: lepetitfromage on 03 Feb 2012, 10:06
I don't know quite why but I feel that my music is safer on CDs - I worry that if it only exists as a downloaded file, it would be easier to lose.

I'm right there with you, I'm so paranoid about losing data. I back it up fairly often, but not often enough that it's impossible to lose something.

I guess there aren't many people left that give personal value to the medium. I do that... I like everything. Not just the cd... The booklet, the artwork,etc and to me it's kind of meh if that would only be sold as a file. Vinyls are unfortunately too expensive for me to buy so cds were always the better option.
I fully understand the environmental part of the issue but that's just the way I think about music and I will never change my mind about it.

Count me in there too. I don't buy many CDs, but I REALLY want the ones that I buy. I probably have around 5 artists/bands that as soon as they release a new album, I run to the store (or amazon) to buy it. I love the artwork, the inserts and the collection aspect of it. I am starting to notice that a lot of bands aren't putting the same effort into the physical object as they used to. You could find full fledged 20 page booklets with all the song lyrics, great artwork, "thank you" pages from each band member....they were a neat little glimpse into the minds of the band members. Now...you're lucky to get any lyrics at all, minimal artwork and a link to the band's website. :-\

I feel like this is along the same lines as the e-book/"real" book debate....i think that no matter what there are going to be people on both sides. Yes, books have been around a lot longer than CDs, but I think that there are still a lot of people who want a physical object for their money, not just a file.

Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: DrPhibes on 05 Feb 2012, 12:42
I still use and burn CD's becuase I need them to DJ :P
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: doombilly on 06 Feb 2012, 09:14
I'm in the process of ripping and redoing many CDs that I ripped with !#$%#$%!# Windows Media that now have locked me out of my own fair use. I'm hoping to get a big enough RAID to actually get rid of all this physical media. That said, I plan to keep on making CDs of our band's (http://illicitizen.com) for sale at shows. We're going to record our 2nd Long Player in a few weeks. I'm still on the fence whether it is worth it to buy 1000 duplicated or just stick with Kunaki and have small numbers printed when I need them.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: celticgeek on 07 Feb 2012, 16:56
Interesting little article on the end of the DVD. (http://news.yahoo.com/end-dvd-coming-fast-183500472.html)
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Patrick on 25 Feb 2012, 05:30
I'd be upset to see the CD format die. I mean, I realize that technology has outrun the format, but the fact remains that CDs are higher fidelity than any mp3 you're ever going to get, ever. And data on a hard drive can decay over time, become corrupted and such, however the correct terminology goes. If you properly maintain your CD collection (which is much more idiot-proof than data maintenance), you can keep your music intact an awful lot longer.

Or maybe the age of appreciating music long-term is over, since we're definitely in the age of hyperstimulation. Attention spans are definitely shorter than they once were.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: lepetitfromage on 27 Feb 2012, 06:20
I agree, everything is all about instant gratification and being overbooked, overstimulated and overwhelmed. "Doing nothing" is probably the most frowned upon situation you can find yourself in. It's as if you are less of a person if your schedule is not completely packed and your relaxation time is penciled in and considered "personal productivity".


It makes me sad to think that there may be people born who will never know the joy of purely being and listening.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mister D Nomms on 28 Feb 2012, 00:02
Remember mini CD's?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Patrick on 29 Feb 2012, 13:10
No, but then, do you remember them catching on? Because I don't.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Mister D Nomms on 29 Feb 2012, 13:41
They absolutely didn't catch on. CD's were still pretty new and there was no way anybody was going to buy new players and re-buy their music for no real reason other than to save shelf space. I just thought they were relevant here.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Orbert on 29 Feb 2012, 13:48
MiniDiscs had a big advantage, though; you could record on them.  This was years before CD-Rs, so MiniDisc was really the first recordable digital medium.  Up until then, you had cassettes for portable recordable media, and a distinct loss of audio quality.  The MiniDisc had pretty good audio fidelity.  It might even have caught on, given a little longer, but CD-Rs showed up and it was game over for the MiniDisc.

Interesting little article on the end of the DVD. (http://news.yahoo.com/end-dvd-coming-fast-183500472.html)

They talk a bit about streaming, but no mention of the Blu-ray disc.  It seems to me that DVDs aren't dying just because of streaming, but because the market is basically divided into those who want the "home theater" experience and those who are okay just watching a movie on their iPad or phone or PC.  If you watch on a mobile device then yeah, streaming is the way.  If you're into kicking back on the couch with your friends and watching a movie on HDTV, then Blu-ray is the way, or on-demand, or even streaming if you can get streaming HD enough to do it.  Either way, that leaves DVD in the middle.  It's not HD but costs almost as much, and it's not convenient like streaming.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 29 Feb 2012, 14:39
I don't think he meant MiniDisc, though - just smaller diameter CDs.  They still pop up occasionally, though USB sticks have pushed them out in some areas - they have been used as business cards, though, and I was given one of photos last year at a temple in Sri Lanka.

MiniDisc was never going anywhere, though, because it was a compressed only, and so not really suitable for the recording role it aspired to; unlike DAT, which should have done better than it did.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pinkpiche on 01 Mar 2012, 02:13
I agree, everything is all about instant gratification and being overbooked, overstimulated and overwhelmed. "Doing nothing" is probably the most frowned upon situation you can find yourself in. It's as if you are less of a person if your schedule is not completely packed and your relaxation time is penciled in and considered "personal productivity".


It makes me sad to think that there may be people born who will never know the joy of purely being and listening.

It's easy to look at a short period of time and identify some major change but really this is lacking in perspective and nuance. Yes, everything is going incredibly fast and there is a tendency in global culture to value career higher than everything else - but that being said, who really knows what overstimulated means? Just because we all have some romantic idea of sitting down and listening to a record and doing nothing else, doesn't mean we're not projecting our need to express our ability to relax in a stressed world. The issue is much more complex than we'd like to acknowledge. Especially considering this change has only been going on for the last 20-30 years, we have yet to produce a generation entirely comfortable with the information environment.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: lepetitfromage on 01 Mar 2012, 07:41
I think I have to politely disagree. I think the very latest generation is just that- entirely comfortable with the information overload. So yes, you are right- they probably have no idea what overstimulated is because they are so used to it. Maybe I am the minority here, but I definitely know what overstimulated is- and it sucks.

We may be projecting our need for relaxation, but just because we talk about the fact that we want to relax doesn't mean we get to do so without repercussions. Everything needs to be done as soon as possible. Just think about vacations: when someone actually has the luxury to take one, the time leading up to and following the return of said vacation are both chock full of things to do to make sure that you don't fall behind and lose your job. (It's sad, but it's reality). Not to mention those who have vacations that have to be cut short because of a work "emergency". I see it all too often. Maybe it's simply the nature of the industry I work in, but I'm sure it varies depending on such things anyway. Although, in a number of fields now more people have a phone for work and have to be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Work has become more important than living your life outside of work and actually enjoying what little money you make. With all that stress and the fact that you have to be available all the time, there is very little room for simple pleasures without interruption. Sure, they exist- but it's getting harder and harder to fit them in. Combine this with the growing trend in "kids" constantly being plugged into something and then you are breeding a generation that lives for everything the information age stands for- increased productivity, instant gratification....higher value in tasks being performed as fast and efficiently as humanly possible.

Is there some merit in this? Absolutely! The faster we get things done, the more time we have to do more productive things. But the fact is, the more we accomplish, the more that will be demanded of us. Things will get done quicker but that doesn't mean we get to take more time for ourselves- there will just be more work to do in a shorter period of time. The amount of work done in 40 hours 20 years ago is a LOT different than the amount of work done in the same 40 hour time span.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Mar 2012, 07:48
And because those of us in work are being made to do more in a given time (and for a given salary), there is less work for others - hence increased unemployment, which is primarily a way of making business more profitable by reducing salary bills.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: doombilly on 01 Mar 2012, 10:36
And fewer benefits. If you have 2 employees doing the work of 3, the employer covered part of the benefits (retirement, healthcare etc...) is reduced by 1/3. They say we are more "productive" now. What they mean is the employers are getting more for less. Or at least it seems so to me. I know that when I'm on vacation I cannot leave my work phone behind and that people call me and expect shit to get done.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pinkpiche on 01 Mar 2012, 12:31
I think I have to politely disagree. I think the very latest generation is just that- entirely comfortable with the information overload. So yes, you are right- they probably have no idea what overstimulated is because they are so used to it. Maybe I am the minority here, but I definitely know what overstimulated is- and it sucks.

We may be projecting our need for relaxation, but just because we talk about the fact that we want to relax doesn't mean we get to do so without repercussions. Everything needs to be done as soon as possible. Just think about vacations: when someone actually has the luxury to take one, the time leading up to and following the return of said vacation are both chock full of things to do to make sure that you don't fall behind and lose your job. (It's sad, but it's reality). Not to mention those who have vacations that have to be cut short because of a work "emergency". I see it all too often. Maybe it's simply the nature of the industry I work in, but I'm sure it varies depending on such things anyway. Although, in a number of fields now more people have a phone for work and have to be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Work has become more important than living your life outside of work and actually enjoying what little money you make. With all that stress and the fact that you have to be available all the time, there is very little room for simple pleasures without interruption. Sure, they exist- but it's getting harder and harder to fit them in. Combine this with the growing trend in "kids" constantly being plugged into something and then you are breeding a generation that lives for everything the information age stands for- increased productivity, instant gratification....higher value in tasks being performed as fast and efficiently as humanly possible.

Is there some merit in this? Absolutely! The faster we get things done, the more time we have to do more productive things. But the fact is, the more we accomplish, the more that will be demanded of us. Things will get done quicker but that doesn't mean we get to take more time for ourselves- there will just be more work to do in a shorter period of time. The amount of work done in 40 hours 20 years ago is a LOT different than the amount of work done in the same 40 hour time span.


I'm 21 years old, and I'm completely terrified of the information overload, it's basically what I think about when I'm most anxious (and what my art practice revolves around) so I wouldn't say we're comfortable - we're more trapped than that. We have no other way to communicate, I'm entirely addicted to the gratification I get from Facebook and other social media and I'm happy that way almost 80% of the time but that's mostly because things are going so fast that I'm not going to notice it more. That doesn't mean that it's frowned upon to take a vacation or even relax when your work day is over - it just means that most people are convinced that that is how a stable, healthy work environment looks like. I can see that you're coming from somewhere else, and I think that's good because I wouldn't be able to see it from that perspective - but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's not the same for everybody, it's different for everybody. Some kids I know are hooked up everywhere they go and accept it as a natural part of the way they live - and who's to say it isn't?

Then there's the aspect of some people having been culturally conditioned to seek self-realization (like me, but of course in more extreme cases in Asia) and how they feel that their entire ego is built on the premise that they may soon obtain widespread recognition and gratification. Some are more lucky than others and realize soon enough that no matter how hard you try there's going to be some ups and downs. But people like my friend's chinese cousin (who lives and studies in China) are so conditioned to believe that the only important thing in their lives is their education and later their work, that when presented with the prospect of going somewhere where there's every possibility to socialize and meet new friends, they're confused because they've never had any.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily sad that it's like this now, it's just different and that's not relativism - it's knowing that every generation has lived differently and the elder generation will always be somewhat skeptical of "the new ways".

With that being said I'm completely in love with physical media and insist on buying new music on vinyl when I have the money and use Spotify or other streaming sites for when I don't. I seek the old ways too, and I enjoy having to flip the LP but I know that this isn't true for everyone.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: lepetitfromage on 02 Mar 2012, 09:01
You make a lot of really good points. I have so much I want to respond to specifically...please forgive the novel.  :-P


I'm 21 years old, and I'm completely terrified of the information overload, it's basically what I think about when I'm most anxious (and what my art practice revolves around) so I wouldn't say we're comfortable - we're more trapped than that.
1- I'd like to see this art practice of yours. I'm intrigued. What medium do you use? Do you have a web portfolio?
2- I think 'trapped' is an interesting word choice. IMO a lot of the time, we consider ourselves trapped when we're simply just accustomed to the way in which we're doing things. I hate texting, but sometimes it's more convenient than picking up the phone and most of my friends are texters. I feel stuck in it and know that it's better if I just respond that way but deep down I just want to call.


That doesn't mean that it's frowned upon to take a vacation or even relax when your work day is over - it just means that most people are convinced that that is how a stable, healthy work environment looks like.
I think that's the issue though- that relaxation is changing. Productivity is infiltrating our entire lives because it can- so why shouldn't we let it? It is less about pure joy and peace of mind and more about "I will clean every speck of my house and reorganize my freezer and I will feel joy and have peace of mind because I am productive". Plus, if you are home from work doing laundry and you're interrupted by an emergency call from the office, at least they didn't interrupt something you actually enjoy. Even when some activities are purely recreational (like hiking or going for a walk) they are rationalized by the fact that they are killing 2 birds with one stone: relaxation and calorie burning.

I can see that you're coming from somewhere else, and I think that's good because I wouldn't be able to see it from that perspective - but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's not the same for everybody, it's different for everybody. Some kids I know are hooked up everywhere they go and accept it as a natural part of the way they live - and who's to say it isn't?

Then there's the aspect of some people having been culturally conditioned to seek self-realization (like me, but of course in more extreme cases in Asia) and how they feel that their entire ego is built on the premise that they may soon obtain widespread recognition and gratification. Some are more lucky than others and realize soon enough that no matter how hard you try there's going to be some ups and downs. But people like my friend's chinese cousin (who lives and studies in China) are so conditioned to believe that the only important thing in their lives is their education and later their work, that when presented with the prospect of going somewhere where there's every possibility to socialize and meet new friends, they're confused because they've never had any.

I like that you pointed out what you did in that first section. It may work for some people even if it doesn't for others. I try to hold tight to that notion in most situations but I tend to get carried away when it comes to things that I consider fundamental needs (like relaxation). I'm a very anxious person and without my downtime I think my brain would explode.

The only thing that I question a bit is where you mention self-realization. At first it sounded as though you were talking about self-realization in the way that it is described by humanist psychologists- after an enormous list of tangible accomplishments, one has fully 'realized' their potential. But the Buddhist interpretation (which is what I though of when you mentioned "extreme cases in Asia") of self-realization is quite different. The way I understand it is that it is only achieved through awareness and internal reflection...without the influence of external forces or occurrences. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were getting at?


What I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily sad that it's like this now, it's just different and that's not relativism - it's knowing that every generation has lived differently and the elder generation will always be somewhat skeptical of "the new ways".

With that being said I'm completely in love with physical media and insist on buying new music on vinyl when I have the money and use Spotify or other streaming sites for when I don't. I seek the old ways too, and I enjoy having to flip the LP but I know that this isn't true for everyone.


This makes me feel old. I'm only 26, and I'm definitely not entirely skeptical of "the new ways"- I have a Kindle, an enormous iTunes library and I'm a last.fm addict. Don't get me wrong, I love technology and all the fantastic advances that have been made in the field- my dad built me a computer when I was 7 and I've watched all the changes come and go since then. And I'm a Google fiend- I'm fascinated by the accessibility of information and sometimes I question what I would do without it. But I think my attachment to the past is the artistic/romantic aspect of it all. There's something that seems more meaningful about it that I can't quite put my finger on. Something more enjoyable about the less technologically oriented ways of doing things. I don't think by any means that we should all throw out our gadgets and go live in the wilderness....but I think every once in a while, shutting off your cell phone can be the most liberating feeling in the world.





Also, to pwhodges and doombilly- exactly! In most cases, our salaries are not increasing with our responsibilities. Unless you're an hourly employee, it doesn't matter how many phone calls outside of work you get- if you take 3 one week and 30 the next, you're still getting the same paycheck.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Redball on 27 May 2012, 17:22
I hadn't looked at the band thread until today. The discussion of the possible demise of CDs brings to mind a memory of their beginning.
In the mid-1980s, my wife and I had a pleasant friendship with a man who 20 years before had been the mayor of a small suburban Detroit community when I was reporting it for the local daily newspaper. He had started a record store in that city just after World War II.
Several times in the 80s, Clara and I and our daughter hiked in northern New Hampshire, then headed to my friend's summer home on the Maine coast for a 2-3-day visit. By then he'd opened branches in the Detroit area, and set up his own warehousing operation to supply them.
On one of the visits to Maine, he told me about a demonstration he had witnessed at a record dealer convention, probably in Nashville. The person doing the demo on stage took this shiny little disc, put in a machine and music came out. The demonstrator removed the shiny little disk, tossed it to the floor, stomped on it, and put it back in the machine. Music came out.
My friend was blown away by the demo and the small size of the disk.
He didn't live many years after that, and his record store empire didn't last long very long after he died.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: riccostar on 11 Nov 2012, 16:46
I, personally, would be extremely sad if the CD phased out of use.  I realize that mediums come and go but I've lived with them all my life and when I think of music a CD is one of the first things that comes to mind.  I love the packaging too, the gem case and art along with the lyrics booklet and the design on the disc itself really makes CDs something I love to have.  The age of mp3 downloads may be looming but I really hope that CDs can hold onto a spot in the music industry. 
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: IDMG on 11 Nov 2012, 20:29
End of the CD?

I haven't bought a CD in 5 years.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Patrick on 12 Nov 2012, 00:32
CDs are still the single best option for any startup band to have a properly sellable medium (come on, who the fuck *buys* mp3s) at shows. For one: you can rip them to your computer and take them with you on the go with whatever playback device you choose.

For two, and this is the important one: you can sell it to somebody at a show and they will INSTANTLY be able to shove the CD in their car's dashboard hole and suddenly your songs come on, which increases the likelihood of your music getting stuck in their head. Not only that, but the customer then has a non-intrusive way to find your website info, lyrics (if you printed em; then they can sing along at the next show), song names (so they can request things at shows and make you look cooler than you are), even your BAND NAME. You're literally selling people an advertisement of your band.

CDs may eventually be phased out in favor of USB sticks, but I don't see that happening just yet. The term "universal serial bus" is somewhat misleading in the respect that you still can't plug one into your car and play the songs on there. What if the file type isn't compatible? What if it got wet? Can't just wipe it off like you can with a CD.

Physical formats still provide a very important degree of legitimacy to a band's image as well.

Idk, we here at Troubador! Inc. GmbH. et Filles, Co. have spent countless hours poring over this very topic, and that's pretty much the condensed version of it. I don't think CDs are dead, not when independent artists like us are kudzuing the industry.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 12 Nov 2012, 08:22
Well yes, but bands used to sell tapes. And now no one uses tapes.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: leftandleaving on 12 Nov 2012, 10:14
CDs are made from non-renewable, non-biodegradable plastics (made from crude oil, natural gas) and aluminum (mined from the earth and shit, by humans with machines), and I guess I just don't think it's worth it to have them mass produced just so that people can put a couple songs into their computer, load the songs into an iPod, and put the cd into a box for the rest of their lives.

Plus, jewel cases are made from PVC, which is super bad for the environment, too (and I know a lot of bands are switching to paper cd cases, which is great!). The question stands: why mass produce something that most people aren't going to actually use more than once? Isn't there some way to get music to people that can be practical from both an environmental standpoint AND a musician standpoint?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Barmymoo on 14 Nov 2012, 08:50
Could USBs somehow be adapted to have the benefits Patrick is talking about? Maybe bands could sell little leaflets about themselves which contain a small memory card/chip from which songs can be transferred onto an MP3 player, but which still contains all the tangible advert parts of a CD, without the wasted resources of plastic etc.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 14 Nov 2012, 10:33
"Little leaflets about themselves", very hardcore Barmymoo!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Orbert on 14 Nov 2012, 11:34
Every car audio unit I've seen that has USB will play mp3 files without fuss.  They might need to all be in the root directory, but the solution to that is simple: leave them all in the root directory.  It seems like all you'd need to do is load up a bunch of USB sticks with mp3's of your band, a pdf or two with some promo material ("leaflets"!), and if you really want to get fancy, video in avi or flv format (or both).  Leave everything in the root directory.  Most people will be able to just plug the USB into their car or PC or whatever and play the tunes, probably even play the video(s).  Then pass them out at your gigs.  Buy 'em in bulk and they're down to a couple bucks each.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 15 Nov 2012, 08:17
Using a micro-sd card instead would be even better because you can put them directly in your music player if it has a card slot and if you need a USB-connection you can always buy a micro-sd card reader for small money.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Orbert on 15 Nov 2012, 08:38
I guess.  If the idea is to put the music on the most "universal" media, sd cards may have surpassed USB sticks by now, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 15 Nov 2012, 11:13
I don't know what is more common but I think that it would be better to divide a USB stick in a connection part and a memory part and to sell only the memory part instead of a complete USB stick.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Nov 2012, 12:21
That's called a card and a card reader...
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 15 Nov 2012, 14:52
I know.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Nov 2012, 15:09
Another matter is that there comes a point when the card is too small, running the risk of not appearing to represent the value it contains, and also (and more importantly) simply of being lost.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Zappit on 15 Nov 2012, 18:48
Debunking begins...

http://trustmeimascientist.com/2011/12/05/reports-of-the-death-of-the-cd-are-greatly-exaggerated/

Very important detail at the end.

Quote:


Editor’s note: Since we began our campaign to debunk the Side-Line article a few weeks ago, the magazine has updated its story to admit that they have no official, or unofficial sources for their 2012 timetable.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Nov 2012, 00:09
I don't think any of us actually believed the original article, even without that admission a few weeks later (the article you link is nearly a year old) that there was no good source for it.  None the less, the future of distribution media is always a matter of interest. 

But actually, I know one company specialising in restorations of historical recordings that has almost stopped selling CDs; you can buy mp3s, or flacs (with a cue sheet to make your own CD if you want), or subscribe to streaming downloads, or buy a large hard disk with their whole catalogue, or a section of it (plus an update subscription).  But even there CDs are still available at extra cost, and with a delay while they burn them for you.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Patrick on 16 Nov 2012, 07:21
Another matter is that there comes a point when the card is too small, running the risk of not appearing to represent the value it contains, and also (and more importantly) simply of being lost.

(bold mine) Ohhh man this is a big one. And aside from that, the ubiquity of USB/SD/MicroSD interfaces in cars is much more in question than that of a CD player. Again, using my own anecdotal evidence, most of our fanbase is people who are young and haven't quite reached the point in their careers where they can justify buying a brand new car with those kinds of modern appointments.

Going back to the issue regarding the PVC jewelcases, we were conscious of this and opted to go for paper jackets instead. They are cheaper to make (and sell) and they use at least 60% less plastic (by my own estimation). As for the aluminum, copper and gold mining/processing isn't exactly fantastic for the environment either. I'm honestly not sure which is worse to that end.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 16 Nov 2012, 07:59
To buy a new car just because the radio is outdated would be a bit extreme.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Welu on 16 Nov 2012, 08:10
Especially since it is possible to rip out the radio and install a MP3/iPod player connection. I have no idea about the cost and how it works but most of my mates with cars have done it, even taken out tape players I think.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Orbert on 16 Nov 2012, 08:27
My first few cars were tiny little wind-up toys with manual trans, roll-down windows, nothing extra at all.  But I put decent tunes and speakers into them, and I was good to go.  I guess I figured most people do that.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Nov 2012, 08:31
The more modern the car, the more likely that it has the audio system built in using a non-generic form-factor so that it can't be changed.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: ackblom12 on 16 Nov 2012, 09:26
Give it another 5 years or so, used cars with USB ready radios will be pretty common.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 16 Nov 2012, 11:47
A more modern car is also more likely to have a USB connection, making the replacing of the radio unnecessary. Even if not it's unlikely that a manufacturer uses a nonstandardized size because it will cost more.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 17 Nov 2012, 03:15
"Hey guys did you buy Neurosis' new USB STICK???"

 :-\
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Patrick on 17 Nov 2012, 04:28
Yeah, it sounded way better on wax cylinder.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: celticgeek on 17 Nov 2012, 07:42
Wandering Minstrel (http://afternoonsnoozebutton.com/post/2761235496/i-have-it-on-wandering-minstrel)
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Spiff on 17 Nov 2012, 08:53
Wandering Minstrel (http://afternoonsnoozebutton.com/post/2761235496/i-have-it-on-wandering-minstrel)
(Repaired your link)
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: celticgeek on 17 Nov 2012, 10:06
Thanks - sorry about that.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Barmymoo on 18 Nov 2012, 09:01
Is "leaflet" a weird/old-fashioned word in the US?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 18 Nov 2012, 14:12
I'm not from the US. But it just sounded funny. Picture a black metal guy with painted blood on his face saying "have a leaflet!"..

I'm getting annoying here, aren't I?  :oops:
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Akima on 18 Nov 2012, 14:31
"Hey guys did you buy Neurosis' new USB STICK???"
Why would you say that? It's just a legacy of physical distribution media. You'd just download it and refer to the work instead. People already refer to downloading <band>'s "latest", or it having "leaked", or whatever. Terms like "single", "B-side", "EP", and "album" are already "virtualised". Are you bothered that web "pages" are not pieces of paper?
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Pilchard123 on 18 Nov 2012, 14:33
Soon we'll have Constable Visit-the-non-listeners-with-explanatory-pamphlets...
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: riccostar on 18 Nov 2012, 18:52
"Hey guys did you buy Neurosis' new USB STICK???"
Why would you say that? It's just a legacy of physical distribution media. You'd just download it and refer to the work instead. People already refer to downloading <band>'s "latest", or it having "leaked", or whatever. Terms like "single", "B-side", "EP", and "album" are already "virtualised". Are you bothered that web "pages" are not pieces of paper?

I would agree with him though that it does sound a bit strange because we not only say "album" and "EP" but we also refer to CD's and records or vinyls.  A flash drive or "usb stick" is a far cry from the ultra thin cylinders we've come to know and love.  Not to say it wouldn't be effective, but in a cursory glance it would be easy to scoff at the idea.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: idontunderstand on 19 Nov 2012, 09:36
I really should stop joking around so much I guess.
Title: Re: End of the CD coming...
Post by: Orbert on 20 Nov 2012, 09:21
The more modern the car, the more likely that it has the audio system built in using a non-generic form-factor so that it can't be changed.

My impression was just the opposite.  The consoles may look custom and unique, but inside, the audio systems are standard DIN.  You pick up a Crutchfield catalog, and they can match a third-party system to like 98% of the cars out there, and they'll all fit into a DIN chassis.