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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 06:29

Title: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 06:29
A short week, but a fun one.
Title: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2012, 09:39
You need to make that a multi-option poll, I'm thankful for several of those things...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 12:14
Unfortunately, once it's up, it can't be made into a multiple-option poll without Moderator assistance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 18 Nov 2012, 14:12
Beat me to that request Carl!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 18 Nov 2012, 16:34
I've changed it to 3 options.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CrowFairy on 18 Nov 2012, 19:22
I'm a little surprised I'm the first to vote for "This forum." I am truly grateful for you guys. I wish I had the words for it. Rock on. :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2012, 20:08
I guess I was second...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Redball on 18 Nov 2012, 20:20
I just got home. Third.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 18 Nov 2012, 20:24
Who? What? How'd you get home before you got to third? I don't know ...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 20:34
THIRD BASE!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 20:37
Oh, and I can't change my vote. :(
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 20:46
Comi....


Whoa.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 18 Nov 2012, 20:48
Wow, Jeph did an amazing job keeping this one under wraps.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kirtlandwarbler on 18 Nov 2012, 20:49
Can't say I saw that coming.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 18 Nov 2012, 20:49
Oop comic!

Didn't see that coming but it was pleasantly straightforward (and exciting)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Nov 2012, 20:50
Jeph was asking about trans people a while back.

I changed the poll settings to allow changing votes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 18 Nov 2012, 20:50
Holy damn, Claire is nearly an exact carbon copy as someone as I know.  Not quite down to the name though. But still.....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2012, 20:51
Interesting. 


Marten wins with the non-reaction.  Just what Claire needed, I'm sure. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 20:52
Wouldn't the proper term be TG?

And boy, she said that to the right person.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 18 Nov 2012, 20:52
Well, Tumblr is going to lacerate Jeph for this, even though it is, as far as I can tell, respectful and reasonable and not at all offensive. The mere fact that "cisplanation" is accepted terminology on Tumblr ensures it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2012, 20:54
Wouldn't the proper term be TG?

Trans is the more common term, from what I've gathered. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Nov 2012, 20:54
Well I went for being thankful for the forum. The last couple of months weren't the best for me, but the insanity found on here definitely helped. Thanks folks.

Also, thankful for Marten proving he is a decent human being, again. :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Nov 2012, 20:54
Marten's virtues, front and center. Everyone should have a friend like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2012, 20:56
How drunk is he?  Is the calm face covering a muddled "Trans...trans... what the hell does that mean?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 18 Nov 2012, 20:58
Quote
Marten's virtues, front and center. Everyone should have a friend like that.

Agreed, Marten handled that seemingly perfectly.  Well done to Claire too for picking the person, moment, and fashion in which to release that information. 

No Marten-Claire kisses then?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 21:01
I suspect he's the one who's most familiar with TG's, probably thanks to mom. (That's the term my cousin, who is FTM, uses for himself.)

And let's not go into shipping there, ricco.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 18 Nov 2012, 21:03
Haha not so much shipping as plot development, I was thinking that Jeph might have had them hold their ground at the end of the dock.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 18 Nov 2012, 21:04
Finally, another character with boy-parts.  This comic was turning into a total taco fest.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iduguphergrave on 18 Nov 2012, 21:05
Indeed, Marty has experience  (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457)with the trans community.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2012, 21:06
And let's not go into shipping there, ricco.

Not necessarily shipping.  It was being posited last week, after all.  Primo real estate and all...


However, the level of trust needed for divulging that is pretty high.  Probably puts Marten into the big brother zone rather than anywhere else. 



Also explains a bit why Clinton's such an ass to her.  She was his big brother. 

Finally, another character with boy-parts.  This comic was turning into a total taco fest.

Actually, we don't know if she's pre- or post-surgery. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Wagimawr on 18 Nov 2012, 21:09
Well, Tumblr is going to lacerate Jeph for this, even though it is, as far as I can tell, respectful and reasonable and not at all offensive.
hey, it's only the first strip, give it time

(JUST KIDDING JEPH)

I'm in. Let's see where this goes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 18 Nov 2012, 21:12
Indeed, Marty has experience  (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457)with the trans community.

A drag queen does not a transexual make.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Nov 2012, 21:23
No, but they are people. And thus make themselves what they want to be. And lets face it, the childhood Marten had, I doubt anything like that would really phase him anymore.





(Its 5:30 in the morning and I'm off for some sleep!)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somebody on 18 Nov 2012, 21:24
Faye and Angus weren't dunked?

I am disappointed, Mr. Reed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Illeist on 18 Nov 2012, 21:27
Damn. That was awesome. I love this comic a little more every time something like this happens.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: UmberGryphon on 18 Nov 2012, 21:28
I am not that wise in what "trans" means.  I think that Claire is saying that she's biologically male, but mentally/spiritually female, and wishes to be treated as a female.  Am I understanding things correctly?  Googling was involved.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 18 Nov 2012, 21:30
...well that was a change of topic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lazurii on 18 Nov 2012, 21:32
I registered just to ask this, soooooo....

Could it be possible that Claire is biologically female but male gendered?  That he's pre-transition?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 18 Nov 2012, 21:33
Well, Tumblr is going to lacerate Jeph for this, even though it is, as far as I can tell, respectful and reasonable and not at all offensive. The mere fact that "cisplanation" is accepted terminology on Tumblr ensures it.

Oh crap, there goes his other hand.....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 18 Nov 2012, 21:33
I am not that wise in what "trans" means.  I think that Claire is saying that she's biologically male, but mentally/spiritually female, and wishes to be treated as a female.  Am I understanding things correctly?  Googling was involved.

I think so... my knowledge of transsexuality(?) is weak at point. She is either a birth male who feels like she is a female and dresses/acts as such or a girl who feels like a male but doesn't dress/act as such.
 :psyduck:

Quote
Oh crap, there goes his other hand.....

At least he won't lose it the other way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jesskitten on 18 Nov 2012, 21:35
I have to say I love this comic, especially when Jeph handles topics like this so well, it kinda restores my faith you know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 21:35
Two things:

1. I would suspect she is MTF (Male-turning-Female). It also might explain why she's somewhat older than what we'd expect for a college intern, as it took her a while to get into Smif. You know, an all-women's college?

2. Anyone who even THINKS about going after Jeph after this - ESPECIALLY ON TUMBLR - shall feel the wrath of this forum.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Nov 2012, 21:35
I am not that wise in what "trans" means.  I think that Claire is saying that she's biologically male, but mentally/spiritually female, and wishes to be treated as a female.  Am I understanding things correctly?  Googling was involved.
Transgender is something of a catch-all term, describing different types of gender variant issues (including transsexual people). In this case, we only know that Claire is "trans", but assuming she's a transgender woman, it could mean that she is a woman who was assigned as a boy as birth, identifies as a woman, but doesn't want the surgery. If she was transsexual, that would mean that she had the operation to align her body to her identity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jesskitten on 18 Nov 2012, 21:36


I think so... my knowledge of transsexuality(?) is weak at point. She is either a birth male who feels like she is a female and dresses/acts as such or a girl who feels like a male but doesn't dress/act as such.


yeah thats pretty much it you know
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 18 Nov 2012, 21:37
...well that was a change of topic.

Actually, I think she was trying to say exactly this before Faye interrupted (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322).

And UmberGryphon, that's my understanding as well, though we don't know whether Claire has undergone Sex Reassignment Surgery yet. She (he?) might have.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 21:39
I do recall Jeph asking if there were any transexuals at Smif.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jesskitten on 18 Nov 2012, 21:39
She (he?) might have.

I Think at this point its probly safe to say she
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Yarin on 18 Nov 2012, 21:40
Good question whether she's post or pre op I'll say the same thing I say to everyone male or female gay or straight don't have sex in front of me and we'll be golden
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 18 Nov 2012, 21:40
I am not that wise in what "trans" means.  I think that Claire is saying that she's biologically male, but mentally/spiritually female, and wishes to be treated as a female.  Am I understanding things correctly?  Googling was involved.
Transgender is something of a catch-all term, describing different types of gender variant issues (including transsexual people). In this case, we only know that Claire is "trans", but assuming she's a transgender woman, it could mean that she is a woman who was assigned as a boy as birth, identifies as a woman, but doesn't want the surgery. If she was transsexual, that would mean that she had the operation to align her body to her identity.

I would have to agree this is what should be assumed until elaborated on.

It is also rather nice Jeph for this to do this, he can enlighten some of us out there (like myself) who are rather ignorant of transsexuals due to lack of exposure and public attention. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jesskitten on 18 Nov 2012, 21:43

It is also rather nice Jeph for this to do this, he can enlighten some of us out there (like myself) who are rather ignorant of transsexuals due to lack of exposure and public attention. 


This is so true, and most of the representations of trans people in media aren't that great, its nice to see good depictions of people like me
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Yarin on 18 Nov 2012, 21:43
People who hate other people for being different are idiots i don't hate anyone cause I don't care enough to hate
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 18 Nov 2012, 21:50
Okay, that was unexpected.
So, trans? MTF or FTM?

In any case, it is nice to see a representation of a trans-gender/sexual person, which is not an over-the-camp drag queen or a macho dyke in leather with a bull-whip.
Well done, Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 18 Nov 2012, 21:51
This is so true, and most of the representations of trans people in media aren't that great, its nice to see good depictions of people like me

You make jokes about your brother losing a hand from jacking off to much?

On a more serious note, I have read multiple people saying Jeph portrays things such as mental illness and same-sex relationships rather well. Not necessarily surprising (to me at least) that he would handle this with grace. IE, treat it like it you like banana smoothies. 

Okay, that was unexpected.
So, trans? MTF or FTM?

In any case, it is nice to see a representation of a trans-gender/sexual person, which is not an over-the-camp drag queen or a macho dyke in leather with a bull-whip.
Well done, Jeph.

Male to female seems to make the most sense.

Also, Marten's mom could apply, in a way, to the "macho dyke in leather with a bull-whip."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Yarin on 18 Nov 2012, 21:52
When did he do one about mental illness?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 18 Nov 2012, 21:53
When did he do one about mental illness?

Hannelore's struggles. I seem to recall in one of his tumblr dumps, someone stated they appreciated how he handled Hanner's OCD and such.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PureLionHeart on 18 Nov 2012, 21:54
Huh. Unexpected.

Going back through the comics, paints her brother in a pretty good light too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jesskitten on 18 Nov 2012, 21:55
When did he do one about mental illness?

I would say half the comic is about mental illness of one sort or another
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: chel_of_the_sea on 18 Nov 2012, 22:03
As someone recently questioning the fuck out of my gender identity who has been reading QC for years:  :psyduck:

Feels like a sign, bros.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nukeman8000 on 18 Nov 2012, 22:06
I was surprised, as this seemed kinda out of nowhere to me.
I'm curious as to whether Claire's being trans will be a plot point in the future, or it'll just be one of those things that just exists, but no one makes a big deal about.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 22:09
It does bring forth the negative reactions of Clinton to Claire and Claire to Clinton into a new light...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 18 Nov 2012, 22:12
It does bring forth the negative reactions of Clinton to Claire and Claire to Clinton into a new light...

A little bit, but actually, my thought was that what it really brought into new light was Claire's reaction to Emily trying to chop off her hair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 22:33
I'm starting to think I shouldn't have mentioned about the breakup thread not hitting 40 pages...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2012, 22:34
The Return of the OMGTurkeys! What are YOU thankful for?

The strip.    13 (15.3%)
Jeph's health.    18 (21.2%)

MY health.    9 (10.6%)
YOUR health.    6 (7.1%)
Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).    13 (15.3%)
This forum.    6 (7.1%)
Turkey and all the trimmings.    1 (1.2%)
The interwebs.    9 (10.6%)
Something else.    4 (4.7%)
Spathe Ham!    1 (1.2%)
...must... read... ALL the posts...    5 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 35
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: St.Clair on 18 Nov 2012, 22:46
Best reaction (to that admission) ever.
Seriously.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 18 Nov 2012, 23:15
I've just realized that tomorrow and possibly the rest of the week is going to have Marten stubbornly keeping this a secret (I assume Claire only wants to tell people she really trusts) while everyone is going to ask him whether he and Claire made out, and it will be even more awkward than usual, particularly because Marten's apparently not into that (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615). :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 18 Nov 2012, 23:18
I've just realized that tomorrow and possibly the rest of the week is going to have Marten stubbornly keeping this a secret (I assume Claire only wants to tell people she really trusts) while everyone is going to ask him whether he and Claire made out, and it will be even more awkward than usual, particularly because Marten's apparently not into that (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615). :P

Or maybe he is.....? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1300)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 18 Nov 2012, 23:24
I've just realized that tomorrow and possibly the rest of the week is going to have Marten stubbornly keeping this a secret (I assume Claire only wants to tell people she really trusts) while everyone is going to ask him whether he and Claire made out, and it will be even more awkward than usual, particularly because Marten's apparently not into that (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615). :P

I'm guessing everyone will know by friday, no one will care and Clinton will make a smart ass commet. Then Claire will grab Steve's butt and all will be well in the QCverse. At least until Emily kills everybody.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Wildroses on 18 Nov 2012, 23:42
I just went and re-read a few of the older comics with Claire and Clinton after reading todays strip. Suddenly some of their excessive reactions and anxiety can be seen in a new light, and make a lot more sense.

For example, strip 2244 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2244). Now we know what sort of things Clinton was really trying to find out rather than go: "YOU wanted to know if she'd done anything creepy? Ha ha! You looked in the mirror lately buddy?" And I can't believe I didn't pick up his first reaction to being asked that was: "Why do you ask?" instead of "Yes."

And now I can see a new totally different reason as to why they were alarmed and upset at being mistaken for twins in strip  2277 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277).

And look at Claire's anxious pose in panel two of 2278 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278). Could what she REALLY have been asking is "He didn't say anything weird about ME, did he?"

Of course, this all assumes Jeph was planning this that far back and didn't just make it up as he went along and went: "Hey, I want to put a trans character in the strip. Lets see...Claire! She'll be perfect!" But after looking at those earlier strips, I'm don't think he did.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bluesummers on 18 Nov 2012, 23:52
Of course, this all assumes Jeph was planning this that far back and didn't just make it up as he went along and went: "Hey, I want to put a trans character in the strip. Lets see...Claire! She'll be perfect!"

I'd bet he's had this planned since before he introduced either of the siblings...it's his style. The interaction between them makes a lot more sense, yeah.

I like to think that to fully understand any good story, you have to read it at least twice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bluesummers on 19 Nov 2012, 00:01
Really, her saying she's "trans" doesn't tell any of us much of anything. All we can do is guess. She could be F-T-M but not transitioning yet. She could be M-T-F pre-op, but presenting. She could be M-T-F post-op. And even beyond that, she could be aiming for being a straight male, bi male, gay male, straight female, bi female, gay female. We don't know. We're just pondering. Ain't nothing wrong with that.
And considering how Jeph just loves to keep us in the dark, that's probably how it'll remain for a while...it might be brought up in conversation later on.

Quote
But being a drag queen certainly doesn't mean one ISN'T also trans.

That's an excellent point...I didn't mean to suggest that one can't be the other. ^_^
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Astroasis on 19 Nov 2012, 00:04
I just went and re-read a few of the older comics with Claire and Clinton after reading todays strip. Suddenly some of their excessive reactions and anxiety can be seen in a new light, and make a lot more sense.

I think that might be reading too much into their behavior, to be honest. The comics you cited make perfect sense from a sibling standpoint - They're BOTH weird people who are prone to saying/doing weird things, it would seem. All three comics seem to simply be poking fun at the common sibling phenomenon of being SO alike, but believing you're SO different.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 00:05

what Claire is or isn't packing in her pants is relevant to those interested in shipping her with folks


(moderator) There's a no shipping rule, and it's more important than you might think. (/moderator)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 00:05
Edit:
Quote
Warning - while you were typing 8 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Oh, Donars Fluch!

Congrats, you've been officially initiated into the red-letter club. :D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Astroasis on 19 Nov 2012, 00:08
Really, her saying she's "trans" doesn't tell any of us much of anything. All we can do is guess. She could be F-T-M but not transitioning yet. She could be M-T-F pre-op, but presenting. She could be M-T-F post-op. And even beyond that, she could be aiming for being a straight male, bi male, gay male, straight female, bi female, gay female. We don't know. We're just pondering. Ain't nothing wrong with that.
And considering how Jeph just loves to keep us in the dark, that's probably how it'll remain for a while...it might be brought up in conversation later on.

Oh, totally. And I'm sure we'll have some red herrings thrown in just for fun, too XD

(moderator) There's a no shipping rule, and it's more important than you might think. (/moderator)

But that doesn't mean I won't be doing it on my own, in my bedroom, with the lights off and creepy music playing in the background, while I sharpen my knives and smile demurely.

I mean... Well. Yeah. Okay.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bluesummers on 19 Nov 2012, 00:10
...By the way, anyone notice that Jeph likes to drop these little bombs on us right before Thanksgiving?

It's an incentive to be extra-thankful for QC.


...And anime girls with kitten ears are super-manly. Everyone knows that. 8)
(moderator) There's a no shipping rule, and it's more important than you might think. (/moderator)

But that doesn't mean I won't be doing it on my own, in my bedroom, with the lights off and creepy music playing in the background, while I sharpen my knives and smile demurely.

I mean... Well. Yeah. Okay.

Just like the rest of us. ONE OF US...ONE OF US...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 19 Nov 2012, 00:11
Damn, it looks like I picked the right week to get back into the Ponyleaks Discussion Forum!

I knew I shouldn't'a quit drinkin'!!!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 19 Nov 2012, 00:16
I Think at this point its probly safe to say she
Not to mention polite! No, I didn't see this coming either.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 19 Nov 2012, 00:19
I was going to contribute to this discussion, but the 12 replies that happened while I was typing out my rant did it for me, so I'll just add one thing:

I see enquiring about Sex Reassignment Surgery more a question of "Oh, so that's how Claire chooses to express her gender identity?" than "Oh, so Claire has a dong?"
It's a subtle difference, and personally I believe that it makes that particular line of discussion relevant, if accidentally insensitive at times.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 00:19
Oh, look, it's our UBMEOD wielder. Just in time.  :roll: :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 00:20
And WAYF - I think you just explained why it's called Questionable Content. :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 19 Nov 2012, 00:22
I see enquiring about Sex Reassignment Surgery more a question of "Oh, so that's how Claire chooses to express her gender identity?" than "Oh, so Claire has a dong?"
It's a subtle difference, and personally I believe that it makes that particular line of discussion relevant, if accidentally insensitive at times.

I dunno, to the "right" people, the latter would be more relevant than the former.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 19 Nov 2012, 00:30
Oh, look, it's our UBMEOD wielder. Just in time.  :roll: :-D

That reminds me - where did Tergon go? Wasn't Tergon awesome or something?
Not that akronnick can't be awesome in his place, of course... :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Catayana on 19 Nov 2012, 00:43
Here, what Claire is or isn't packing in her pants is relevant to those interested in shipping her with folks, just as finding out if she identifies as straight, gay or bi does.

Um, while I can see why you'd want to know if she's straight, bi or gay, though clearly gay is out of the question with her reaction to Steve's butt, surely it's what the other character's issues with trans people and dating them that matters more than what is in Claire's pants..

I mean, if it matters to the other characters that her body didn't always match her mind, that would limit things, but if they didn't have a problem with that, it wouldn't. What she's actually got doesn't play a massive role there in my mind.

I hope that makes sense.. ^_^;;
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 19 Nov 2012, 00:45
Apropos packing, and questions asked, and answered ... (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=764)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 01:04
Welcome, new person!

That's a well-taken point. It's not a comic about surgery, it's about relationships.

Claire is so career-focused that I wouldn't bet on a romantic relationship being in her near future.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hobo386 on 19 Nov 2012, 01:15
As M. Night Shyamalan would say: "What a twist!"

Anyhow, I figure I'd react the same way if I were Marten.  After all, Claire comes from the same family as Clinton, so there's bound to be something weird about her.  They seem to like surgery, so why not?

Plus I'm drunk, so nothing's gonna surprise me.

And I'm grumpy from Faye kicking me back inside, so I'm barely listening anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 01:24
Plus, Marten is really good at taking things in stride. He also seems better than average at figuring out what people need: comfort hugs for Faye, drumming for Hannelore, and beer mentoring for Marigold are examples. If Claire needed someone to ask "Do you want to talk more?", then he didn't do so well, but sometimes we just need someone to hear us out and not make a big deal of it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Silentbanksy on 19 Nov 2012, 01:51
Could it be she's not trans by choice? I realise that sounds like a stupid question but I'm pretty sure there have been cases in the past of medical history where an accident or injury has caused someone to be changed gender, to save there life or some similar reason. Just a wild idea I had, as it might've been that the incident that caused it also took Clint's hand. She may not even be proud of it, and so it would've taken so much more to tell Marten!

Guys please, as a person I find it offensive we're talking about people. I identify myself as a person and have done for all of my life, and you guys think its okay to just talk about a person as if they're fictional? Well they're not! Well they are, but that's beside my point. I find it so offensive a person is drawn in a comic and you think its okay to treat them as some kind of interesting question-asking character. Just lay off guys.

/sarcasm
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hobo386 on 19 Nov 2012, 01:54
If someone here started making racist remarks about ... Gabby

Frizzy hair.

There's racism, and then there's *racism.*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 19 Nov 2012, 02:37
*Reads comic*
"Oh hey, that's cool, I guess I'll check out the forum, though this isn't a major plot shift like The Breakup and most readers are also likely too be cool with i-"
*4 pages*
Guys. Without even looking, I'm guessing it's mostly over-parsing everything?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lummer on 19 Nov 2012, 02:39
So is the inevitable tumblr shitstorm properly underway now, or are they a bit slow today?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 19 Nov 2012, 02:50
Ha, I can't believe it! I guessed what Claire was going to say down to the letter, literally!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 19 Nov 2012, 03:14
I look in late Sunday afternoon after cooking most of the day, post reply #3 and go off on my merry way.  I return early in the morning and find this.  Well, didn't see it coming and Mr Jacques seems to be handling it with class.

Wonder if others will do so well?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 19 Nov 2012, 03:47
I think we're slowly reaching the point at which "taking fictional work too serious" (even if only as a kickstarter to a discussion) is an understatement of brobdingnagian proportions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: John911 on 19 Nov 2012, 04:09
Marten is just about the coolest most unflappable guy ever.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Chelicerate on 19 Nov 2012, 04:10
Marten is just about the coolest most unflappable guy ever.

Srsly
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rainforce on 19 Nov 2012, 04:15
As someone recently questioning the fuck out of my gender identity who has been reading QC for years:  :psyduck:

Feels like a sign, bros.
aaand there comes me along, thinking that there should be no thing as "gender identity".
We're all humans.
Then again, being asexual and slightly alienated by both genders doesn't help my point, I guess.

On the comic:
I think it's good that jeph finally did something he planned for so long,
and martens reaction is superb, especially since I can already see the black tumblr clouds on the horizon coming closer with rapid speed.

also: I selected "The strip", "This Forum" and especially "YOUR health". That's right: Have a good day random internet person who thinks that I mean YOU.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 19 Nov 2012, 04:16
Marten is just about the coolest most unflappable guy ever.
Srsly

I'd drink to that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: VonKleist on 19 Nov 2012, 04:24
Ayup. Good on Marten not being frazzled or anything :)

What´s so hard to get about it being rude to ask about people's private-parts?

If a stranger came up to me like "How´s your penis?", I´d be uncomfortable too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: machzel08 on 19 Nov 2012, 04:28
I have to admit, I was hoping Claire liked Marten. Also I did not see that coming, though I did anticipate Marten being perfectly fine with it. It also explains the "WE ARE NOT BROTHER AND SISTER" line a few comics back.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LovelyAngel on 19 Nov 2012, 04:29
Woo Hoo! Claire! You go, girl!

(And, as usual, you rock, Jeph!)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: VonKleist on 19 Nov 2012, 04:33
[ ... ]
If a stranger came up to me like "How´s your penis?", I´d be uncomfortable too.
Not if you were in the Scrubs cast. Then it'd just be scripted.

... damn, I'm at the edge of my seat for the rest of the week now because of today's installment. °O

*Common-tv-series-interest-five* ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TinPenguin on 19 Nov 2012, 04:44
Nah, sorry if it's ~~annoying~~ to you, but your dictionary needs some serious revising.

Yep, it does. It needs the words male and female taking out and replacing with "person".

Marten is just about the coolest most unflappable guy ever.

omg marten is so passive he should have written four pages about whether she had bollocks
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: maxh on 19 Nov 2012, 04:52
Finally, another character with boy-parts.  This comic was turning into a total taco fest.

Actually, we don't know if she's pre- or post-surgery.
And given that she's, well, a she, it doesn't matter. Her parts are ladyparts, no matter what shape they are.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: belfast_stephen on 19 Nov 2012, 04:55
We all have the benefit of reading this comic while sober, but actually the characters are all three sheets to the wind on booze.

I read today's comic and thought Marten's blank look was accompanied by a thought process of "...uh..trans?...trans...former?...is Claire a transformer?...uh...dunno, best say something..."

I've never had anyone tell me that they're trans, and I don't know how I'd react if they did. Probably like Marten - blank look and a bit of misunderstanding. I've had to google trans and read the forums here. All very interesting.

Keep up the good work Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Renewman on 19 Nov 2012, 05:00
Claire is transgender? Really? I thought Jeph was jumping the shark with having Dora and Tai start going out but now he is just randomly throwing things in here just for no reason. It's more like he is turning QC into a sort of social commentary to pander to the more liberal crowd of people out there and in turn, adding branches to this storyline that really had no business even going down that road. Claire is Trans? So what? I have transgendered friends even though myself I'm not apart of the LGBT community. However, there was no set-up, no foreshadowing, no hint in the previous comics at all that the story was take this ridiculous turn and frankly I am extremely disappointed in Jeph.

Of course, I expect people to jump on me for "being intolerant" which I find ridiculous when we just got done having 4 pages of people caring whether Claire is MtF or FtM.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Transvalkyire on 19 Nov 2012, 05:05
Renewman: That's the way to write trans characters. They aren't a big deal, they are more common than you think and they've been around since the dawn of humankind. There's not supposed to be any "hints" because unless someone tells you it's impossible to know for sure if someone is trans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Karilyn on 19 Nov 2012, 05:06
I'm just going to go out and say that, yeah, it's only one comic thus far, but that Jeph did an awesome job of introducing Claire as being trans, for two primary reasons...

1.  She had a well developed personality, interests, and has done many things that don't revolve around being trans.
2.  Martin didn't make the biggest deal in the world about it.

Now, my biggest ongoing concern, is that Claire will be taken over by this one aspect of her character, but I'm pretty sure Jeph will be fine.  I've seen that happen a lot of the time, where a character in a webcomic (or even in any other form of media), and suddenly it consumes all their personality, and becomes the only source of drama for them.  That's a bad thing.

In short, it's okay if Claire's plotline now involves bigotry or transition related issues, but it can't be the only thing conflict that happens to her (or even over half the things that happen to her), because that simply reduces her to being a parody instead of a realistic character.  And that's definitely my highest concern.

I'd truly love to see a transperson who is well developed and deals with issues other than being trans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AnalogyShark on 19 Nov 2012, 05:23
Honestly, I was okay with this comic.  I only have one trans friend, and this is pretty much how it came out.

We were out dancing when we first met (I already knew of her situation because our mutual friend informed me on the way there), and once we decided we were gonna be friends, she just sorta whispered in my ear, and I quote, "I have a penis."  I said, "I know, it's cool."  And we never really discussed it again.  She looks and acts like a girl, and I treat her as such.  It's really not that weird once you experience it.

I think the key lead up here for Claire was Marten saying that she was his friend, and meaning it.  People need to feel comfortable with you before they reveal something like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Renewman on 19 Nov 2012, 05:26
Renewman: That's the way to write trans characters. They aren't a big deal, they are more common than you think and they've been around since the dawn of humankind. There's not supposed to be any "hints" because unless someone tells you it's impossible to know for sure if someone is trans.

No, you misunderstand. I'm not harping on the comic because "What!? Jeph just threw in transgender character!? He should have told us last week in a hint!" I'm saying that for those of us who have been following the comic for years are starting to realize that things are just getting thrown into the story with no basis for a while now and it only makes me imagine what else Jeph is going to end up doing in the future. Also, I'm noticing a large influx of new people over this comic. Did this get posted on twitter or something?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LovelyAngel on 19 Nov 2012, 05:29
As much as I would love to sort through this rapidly growing thread filled with interesting opinions, values, information, and misinformation, I can’t, as I have to dash off to work. So I kind of hate to add something totally tangential and then disappear for the day...

Coincidence or intentional as far as Jeph’s timing, I think it’s pretty cool that Claire came out this week as tomorrow is the Transgender Day of Remembrance (http://www.transgenderdor.org/).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AnalogyShark on 19 Nov 2012, 05:30
Also, I'm noticing a large influx of new people over this comic. Did this get posted on twitter or something?

No, I don't think so.  I've read QC for years, and I've lurked the forums from time to time for awhile, just never had a reason to post before.  I felt my experience was relevant here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Chelicerate on 19 Nov 2012, 05:31
Also, I'm noticing a large influx of new people over this comic. Did this get posted on twitter or something?

No, I don't think so.  I've read QC for years, and I've lurked the forums from time to time for awhile, just never had a reason to post before.  I felt my experience was relevant here.

The same, here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Karilyn on 19 Nov 2012, 05:35
However, there was no set-up, no foreshadowing, no hint in the previous comics at all that the story was take this ridiculous turn and frankly I am extremely disappointed in Jeph.

There actually were some lead-ups.  Clinton and Claire are twins.  We assumed fraternal.  But they were really identical.

Seriously, look at the first panel of this comic.  Jeph copy+pasted their heads, then drew different hairstyles on them.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2321

Also Claire has the smallest boobs in the history of QC  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Catayana on 19 Nov 2012, 05:37
I just assumed they were the rare male and female identical twins.. Can't say that was really a lead up for me. I definitely didn't see it coming!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: maxh on 19 Nov 2012, 05:37
No, you misunderstand. I'm not harping on the comic because "What!? Jeph just threw in transgender character!? He should have told us last week in a hint!" I'm saying that for those of us who have been following the comic for years are starting to realize that things are just getting thrown into the story with no basis for a while now and it only makes me imagine what else Jeph is going to end up doing in the future. Also, I'm noticing a large influx of new people over this comic. Did this get posted on twitter or something?
Your other example was Tai and Dora hooking up. There's plenty of basis for that. Both are established as being interested in women, both have specifically mentioned finding the other attractive, and they got along as friends. Is it possible that the change of their relationship (and seeing each other more often) is a bad idea? Sure. But people have ill-advised hookups. It's realistic.

In this case, Claire's a new character, so there's not as much history to go through for hints, but if you read through there are subtle hints. And given the number of characters, it's not really a huge surprise that someone's trans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: StevenC on 19 Nov 2012, 05:39
<quoting reduced by moderator>

Seriously, look at the first panel of this comic.  Jeph copy+pasted their heads, then drew different hairstyles on them.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2321

Well, just the head-shape. Claire's eyes seem bigger, different ears, skin tone and Claire has freckles.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Karilyn on 19 Nov 2012, 05:43
I just assumed they were the rare male and female identical twins.. Can't say that was really a lead up for me. I definitely didn't see it coming!
Just because you (or most people) didn't see it coming, doesn't mean the lead-ups and foreshadowing weren't there.  In fact, if you don't see it coming, then reread it a second time and see it coming, that means it was incredibly skilled writing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 19 Nov 2012, 05:47
The strip's history doesn't support the claim of Jeph just throwing stuff in for no reason. The Claire character had quite a long public genesis, from postings of random sketches (the female character Jeph wasn't quite sure what to do with) to Clinton's early genesis as a female character (with 20-20 hindsight, I speculate that MIGHT have been a hint), to Jeph's statements he wanted to introduce a trans character but wanted to do it respectfully and right.

As for what we've seen so far in the comic, I read it as: Claire had been struggling to figure out "who" she is and recently made/is about to make her peace with it, took a calculated flyer on trusting Marten, and was rewarded with probably the best response, which translated roughly as "I'm glad you felt you could trust me. Let's continue on as fellow humans."

EDIT: Rereading Marten's dialogue, I'm impressed by how right it seems to me (I'm long since convinced Jeph does nothing by accident): "Yeah, sure." ("OK, you're trans. That's part of you and I'm cool with that.") "Thanks for telling me." (my interpretation, above) "Claire." ("Most importantly, you are an individual human").

Great contrast to Marten's earlier inarticulate terror at delivering a simple compliment to the bikini'd Marigold.


Any other thoughts I have will have to depend on what happens next in the comic.

I was going to say "except for the turkeys," but the OMG Turkeys actually lend a great deal of insight to explosive topcis. Maybe it's the tryptophan.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Karilyn on 19 Nov 2012, 05:54
Sorry if someone's mentioned this already...  But there was another visual foreshadowing that Claire was trans which exists.

Male characters do not have lips in QC, only female characters.  Claire has no lips.  That's an indication that she's genetically male, as it's a universal sex trait in the QC universe.

(http://i46.tinypic.com/25k7jps.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Chelicerate on 19 Nov 2012, 05:55
My point is, it is NOT so very fluid. You can look at someones DNA, and look at their genes, and know what they are biology. Their gender is absolutely, completely separate.


And?

Sorry if someone's mentioned this already...  But there was another visual foreshadowing that Claire was trans which exists.

Male characters do not have lips in QC, only female characters.  Claire has no lips.

(image)

Claire is a female character. Clearly, then, some female characters do not have lips.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Karilyn on 19 Nov 2012, 05:59
Claire is a female character. Clearly, then, some female characters do not have lips.
I was talking about her being genetically male.  Of course she's female.  But her lack of lips is a visual indication that she's trans.  Passing can be hard for some folks yo.  There's a reason FFS exists.

(I edited my last post to make sure it was less ambiguous.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 19 Nov 2012, 05:59
1. I would suspect she is MTF (Male-turning-Female). It also might explain why she's somewhat older than what we'd expect for a college intern, as it took her a while to get into Smif. You know, an all-women's college?

How old is she anyways? I forgot... 24?

It is also rather nice Jeph for this to do this, he can enlighten some of us out there (like myself) who are rather ignorant of transsexuals due to lack of exposure and public attention.
Same here, I'm quite ignorant in this particular subject and I'm very interested! :)

Edit: I read all pages... Woah. I'm just gonna lurk around. Don't feel like asking anything atm.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 19 Nov 2012, 06:06
1. I would suspect she is MTF (Male-turning-Female). It also might explain why she's somewhat older than what we'd expect for a college intern, as it took her a while to get into Smif. You know, an all-women's college?

<quoting reduced by moderator>
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned at one point that Claire is a graduate student. I don't know about Smif, but from what I've seen from other women's colleges, they're less picky about male graduate students (in some fields such as physics, they have the choice between admitting male grad students or admitting no grad students). So if Smif is like that, I don't see any reason why they would have a problem with a male-to-female transgendered person.

edit -- Here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) is where it's mentioned that Claire (and Gabby and Emily) are graduate students). Also, for the people commenting that they're identical twins, Claire says they're not (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Nov 2012, 06:06
I thought Jeph was jumping the shark with having Dora and Tai start going out but now he is just randomly throwing things in here just for no reason. It's more like he is turning QC into a sort of social commentary

Like most cartoons, it is at least partially a social commentary, and always has been.  So that people of different kinds should appear in it from time to time is unsurprising, and is just mirroring what happens in society itself - including the randomness.  There's no shark in this lake.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheCommodore on 19 Nov 2012, 06:17
Another new poster here. Like a lot of other people, I've been reading QC for years, I popped over to the forums to see what the reaction was - and I have to admit to being disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed. I don't have much to add to the discussion, but it's worth the minute-long registration process, I guess.

I really wish more peoples' reaction to this was the same as Marten's - "oh, okay. cool," followed by promptly moving on to things that are relevant. I mean, obviously, Claire's history is relevant to understanding who she is, and Marten should be flattered that she trusts him enough to share that with him, but it doesn't change who she is now any more than it would, say, make her less American now if she'd been born in France. If she identifies as female, her gender is female. It's that simple, and whether it's rude or not (it is, to a lot of people), it's pointless to worry about her genitalia or her sex (as distinct from gender) or anything of the sort until and unless it becomes relevant. I was really proud of Jeph for making Marten's reaction so awesome (especially since it jives so well with everything we've seen of Marten to date), and I hoped the readership would follow suit a little better. Comments like "this is just Jeph throwing in shit to appeal to his liberal readership" are bad enough, but the stuff about whether this will mean Marten isn't interested because "[he's] not into that"? Claire's a lady. It's clearly that simple to Marten, even though he just as clearly understands that it isn't that simple for Claire and that that can suck for her. That kind of simple, you-are-what-you-are acceptance, in my experience and opinion, is the best possible way to react - or, to paraphrase someone cleverer than I, "all declarations of identity should be responded to in identical fashion - 'that's great! cake?'"

Oh, and as a poly dude, it seems inexcusable to me to equate the kind of shit you take for being polyamorous with the kind of shit you take for being trans. Yeah, society's reaction to me isn't as awesome as I'd like, but as little as some people like it that I don't fit in the monogamy box, it pales behind the reaction you can see when people have the temerity to refuse to fit in their assigned gender box. I'd do some archaeology and find whatever forum threads were around when Tai came out to Marten as poly to see if they supported my theory, but, well, I'm lazy, and besides, the internet can turn anything into a big deal.

Jesus, that was longer than I thought. tl;dr - doesn't matter, have gender.
"Warning - while you were typing 11 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 19 Nov 2012, 06:20
Claire is transgender? Really? I thought Jeph was jumping the shark with having Dora and Tai start going out but now he is just randomly throwing things in here just for no reason. [...]
Err, what ? Why "no reason" ? Its pretty obvious now why she's so much like her brother. I thought the whole thing was arranged in a pretty nifty way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Nov 2012, 06:31
I really wish more peoples' reaction to this was the same as Marten's - "oh, okay. cool,"

Overwhelmingly, it was.

Quote
followed by promptly moving on to things that are relevant.

This forum exists to discuss the comic and issues that arise from it.  In this case the issue has largely been one of terminology within the discussion itself.  This may be unfortunate, but I have seen the same thing happen again and again in discussions of this subject area in this forum and in others.  Until society as a whole has fully come to terms with all the variety in gender and sexuality this seems inevitable, so we just have to try to lead the way in sympathetic understanding and clear thinking.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 06:33
By the way, Karilyn? Upon closer examination of Claire's profile in a few of those early strips, she does have "lips". Jeph just wasn't drawing them when we were looking at her head-on.


EDIT: Oh, and anyone who's getting all worked up over this, please refer to this comic: 2217: A Multitude of Options (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: marsman57 on 19 Nov 2012, 06:39
Odd, my take away on the impact of the Claire/Clinton relationship is different than most in this topic have presented. I think that rather than showing that Clinton is not accepting of her like some have suggested, that this knowledge lets us see that he actually really does love her deeply and their bickering is just normal sibling problems.

The reason I say this is because I believe if he truly was as unaccepting or hateful toward her as some have suggested that he would have outed her long ago.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Madmartigan on 19 Nov 2012, 06:52
Quote
Marten's virtues, front and center. Everyone should have a friend like that.

Agreed, Marten handled that seemingly perfectly.  Well done to Claire too for picking the person, moment, and fashion in which to release that information. 

No Marten-Claire kisses then?

Was that even up for an inkling of debate before? :?  Even before this totally unexpected stealth bomb, Marten/Claire doing anything other than what friends/acquaintances do would have made no sense at all. 

At any rate.

Totally did not see that one coming at all.  I actually had to reread that a second too.  I was like "trans...trans. whaa? ooooooh".

This would somewhat explain the more fiery sibling rivalry now.  Though "trans" is a bit of an umbrella term and doesn't explain it all. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 06:52
The Return of the OMGTurkeys! What are YOU thankful for?

The strip.    28 (14.1%)
Jeph's health.    42 (21.2%)

MY health.    23 (11.6%)
YOUR health.    13 (6.6%)
Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).    36 (18.2%)
This forum.    8 (4%)
Turkey and all the trimmings.    8 (4%)
The interwebs.    22 (11.1%)
Something else.    8 (4%)
Spathe Ham!    4 (2%)
...must... read... ALL the posts...    6 (3%)

Total Members Voted: 74
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: willpell on 19 Nov 2012, 07:06
This was a complete and utter waste of a comic.  Entirely apart from my feelings about a character being declared trans, the fact that NOTHING ELSE happens in the strip indicates that Jeph should have found a better way of doing this.  (I hate to pick on the guy when he just got through having hella issues, but seriously, if he didn't want to make an actual COMIC today, he could have just updated the character archive with Claire, stating that she was an ex-he, and taken the rest of the day off to improve his mood.  Instead he wastes the time and energy necessary to draw six panels in which no joke is told and a two-word revelation is discussed at excessive length (a condition which I am now exacerbating).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bluesummers on 19 Nov 2012, 07:09
I don't think it was a waste at all...not cramming it full of text is something of a dramatic pause, I think...it flows well in my eyes.

I think one of the underlying reasons Claire told him is not just because she's his friend, but because she might have feelings for him, and is putting the feelers out there to judge his reaction.
(That's not shipping, just an observation/hypothesis).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Nov 2012, 07:11
Although nearly all the strips have a punchline, not all do; sometimes they are simply advancing the story.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Change on 19 Nov 2012, 07:12
This would somewhat explain the more fiery sibling rivalry now.  Though "trans" is a bit of an umbrella term and doesn't explain it all.

I think the fiery sibling rivalry is way more explained by the fact that they're twins, or even siblings. Jeph might have had your thoughts, but Claire identifying as trans doesn't really explain anything more about their rivalry than them being siblings would.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 19 Nov 2012, 07:13
Clinton strikes me as the type of person who is chomping at the bit for a transhuman operation to make himself into an astral corona-surfing robo-whale (go play Eclipse Phase, kids! It's hella fun!), so I can't imagine a "simple" change of gender or sexual organs bothering him in the least. I expect when the two of them had the conversation about Claire's gender identity, his first reaction was "Psh, that's ALL you want to change when we've got fully-lifelike cybernetic prosthetics available? Plebeian." Any animosity between the two is just typical sibling annoyances.

I agree with this. I have a hard time understanding posts that say stuff like "this explains their sibling rivalry". He doesn't look like he's the kind of person that would be bothered at all and it would surprise me A LOT if he turns out that way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Nov 2012, 07:14
I'm just surprised no one else has mentioned being concerned about Marten's reaction to Faye here - I get the feeling he's genuinely feeling a little down about Faye and others being all happy-relationship-y when he's possibly feeling a little lonely romance-wise, not purely reacting to Faye's abrasiveness. I mean, the abrasiveness he's used to, right?

It does come over as a reminder that he is not so long out of a relationship that he invested quite a lot into.

I think the fiery sibling rivalry is way more explained by the fact that they're twins, or even siblings.

Indeed, from my own experience, the strongest rivalry is between those who are otherwise unequal (e.g., boy and girl of different ages), and so feel they have most to prove.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Madmartigan on 19 Nov 2012, 07:18
<quoting reduced by moderator>

There actually were some lead-ups.  Clinton and Claire are twins.  We assumed fraternal.  But they were really identical.

Seriously, look at the first panel of this comic.  Jeph copy+pasted their heads, then drew different hairstyles on them.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2321

Woah.  Kinda scary.  Never noticed that before.  I guess it's one of those, "you don't pick it up until someone tells you it's there" things.

Totally makes sense now.  But if that's foreshadowing, that's the kind you really have to look for though.

As for this being random and totally out of nowhere and comparable to Dora/Tai...

It really isn't.  I was one who had a big issue of the total randomness of Dora totally fawning over Tai out of nowhere and how it made no sense in MY understanding of the comic and was thus a poor plot element..

However, Jeph got this one laid in perfectly in hindsight.  Claire must have picked up on Marten's laid back personality and the fact he's friends already with Tai probably helped her just give up the secret in an easy breezy manner.

As others have said, you'd never know a trans until they said/showed it, much like don't always pick up if someone's other than hetero.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rockman on 19 Nov 2012, 07:19
I d'awwwed at the poll results just now.

Great strip today, and as we can see by six pages of discussion and counting it was thought-provoking too.  And it had a punchline.



(slurp)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Daniel Patrick Moynihan on 19 Nov 2012, 07:22
I expect this may be answered in the coming months, but I wonder if Claire is a little resentful for how 'easy' it was for Clinton to fix his firework accident.  If they haven't developed much better reassignment procedures in the QCverse, I'd imagine it's frustrating to see self induced harm stemming from stupidity corrected in awesome ways when it's such an ordeal to just get your body the way it ought to be.

The other thing I'm wondering is how this is going to be revealed to the wider cast and how they'll react.  Some would probably react like Marten but I can see a lot of uncomfortable questions from Emily.

Edit: Claire and Clinton are 3 years apart.  They are not twins, Claire is older.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Madmartigan on 19 Nov 2012, 07:24
Clinton strikes me as the type of person who is chomping at the bit for a transhuman operation to make himself into an astral corona-surfing robo-whale (go play Eclipse Phase, kids! It's hella fun!), so I can't imagine a "simple" change of gender or sexual organs bothering him in the least. I expect when the two of them had the conversation about Claire's gender identity, his first reaction was "Psh, that's ALL you want to change when we've got fully-lifelike cybernetic prosthetics available? Plebeian." Any animosity between the two is just typical sibling annoyances.

If anything, Clinton is the type to go for dangerous hardcore cyborg surgery and become more robot than human and thusly become non-gendered as he's seems disinterested in the idea of romance. 

This would somewhat explain the more fiery sibling rivalry now.  Though "trans" is a bit of an umbrella term and doesn't explain it all.

I think the fiery sibling rivalry is way more explained by the fact that they're twins, or even siblings. Jeph might have had your thoughts, but Claire identifying as trans doesn't really explain anything more about their rivalry than them being siblings would.

Just to be more clear, I meant the fact they were most likely brothers at birth and typically, the rivalry is more pronounced, in my experience, with brother/brother than sister/brother or even sister/sister.  But that's my experience and I say this with the knowledge of all my cousins from my mom's sister are all female.  The younger brother/older brother is a big thing.  Though not as pronounced as it would be if there were a middle child.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: StevenC on 19 Nov 2012, 07:29
I expect this may be answered in the coming months, but I wonder if Claire is a little resentful for how 'easy' it was for Clinton to fix his firework accident.  If they haven't developed much better reassignment procedures in the QCverse, I'd imagine it's frustrating to see self induced harm stemming from stupidity corrected in awesome ways when it's such an ordeal to just get your body the way it ought to be.

The other thing I'm wondering is how this is going to be revealed to the wider cast and how they'll react.  Some would probably react like Marten but I can see a lot of uncomfortable questions from Emily.

Edit: Claire and Clinton are 3 years apart.  They are not twins, Claire is older.
I'd say in a world where fully functional sentient AIs exist and robot bodies for those AIs that are indistinguishable from humans in movement and speech are affordable for your average middle class person, surgery should be pretty far advanced too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MercuryP on 19 Nov 2012, 07:29
I did some "coming out" as trans recently (I'm mtf and early in transition so I still look male), and I have to admit this is pretty much exactly what it's like.  You decide you want to tell people about it, you tell them about it completely out of the blue, and if they're supportive they basically say "ok, thanks for telling me" at which point there is awkward silence while you try and figure out what else to say.  Even with people who are open and supportive, oh the awkward silence.

If I had to summarize transgenderism in a paragraph, I'd say that everyone makes a lot of decisions about who they want to be in life.  And while we can't choose our attitudes toward gender, we CAN choose whether or not we act on them, effectively making a choice between happiness and self-actualization, or living a life where you'll never have that.  It's an obvious choice, and for transsexuals it's worth the time, money, and discrimination you're taking on in doing it.  What people generally don't understand, though, is that the physical implications of being transsexual are not exactly a big deal to most of us; there are obviously differences in the values of men and women, and when everybody assumes your values are one way or another because of your physical appearance, you'd like to change your physical appearance to prevent that wrong assumption from occurring every single day of your life.  For people who are willing to understand and support us, do know that people like me who are currently transitioning may be considerably more open to talking about the details of it than people who have already transitioned and would not like to be reminded of their previous life which they hated.

I'm kind of interested to see where this goes.  I don't think there's a point to introducing an explicitly trans character and then not doing anything about it, but I can't really imagine there's that much of a story to tell beyond talking about things that happened in the past.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SJCrew on 19 Nov 2012, 07:31
While you worded it much differently than I would have, Willpell, I too think this was mostly a  very 'in your face' comic intended to appeal to a certain demographic. But I'm not mad at Jeph for it. I know he's very keen on issues of sexuality and addresses them a lot in his works, so a shout out to his transgender readers does not seem out of character for him or the comic.

Judging by the responses and discussion in this thread, it appears the comic has achieved its intended effect.

@ TheCommodore: Transgender is worth discussion. It still isn't something modern society is completely used to, and not something many of us are even exposed to in our daily lives, so expecting everyone to be as casual about it as you are is unrealistic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FontOfQuestions on 19 Nov 2012, 07:34
Odd, my take away on the impact of the Claire/Clinton relationship is different than most in this topic have presented. I think that rather than showing that Clinton is not accepting of her like some have suggested, that this knowledge lets us see that he actually really does love her deeply and their bickering is just normal sibling problems.

The reason I say this is because I believe if he truly was as unaccepting or hateful toward her as some have suggested that he would have outed her long ago.

I agree - it would go a way to explain why he's a "good brother" despite being a jerk, no?

If he really had a problem with it, I suspect he would have mentioned it before she did. "Did you know that Claire is really... a man???"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lummer on 19 Nov 2012, 07:46
I'm kind of interested to see where this goes.  I don't think there's a point to introducing an explicitly trans character and then not doing anything about it, but I can't really imagine there's that much of a story to tell beyond talking about things that happened in the past.

I actually think there would be a quite valid point to introducing Claire's trans-ness (what's the right word here? Don't kill me, angry tumblr-people!!) and making a brief (keyword here: Brief!) arc about the "coming out" and then it quickly being over with. It would in any case be setting a good example of how it should be in society, with no one making it an issue at all and everyone just moving along with life, without treating Claire differently in any other way. As I said: The way it ought to be, with trans people just not being anything you even raise an eyebrow at, and accept just as readily as any ol' cissie.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TinPenguin on 19 Nov 2012, 08:03
Claire's trans-ness (what's the right word here? Don't kill me, angry tumblr-people!!)

trans-ship

/logistics joke
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lummer on 19 Nov 2012, 08:09
Claire's trans-ness (what's the right word here? Don't kill me, angry tumblr-people!!)

trans-ship

/logistics joke

inb4 sixteen furious shipping agents yell at you to check your privilege.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 19 Nov 2012, 09:10
Geez. I read the comic, ask a carefully phrased, non-threatening threatening question out of ignorance and a desire to learn more about something I don't understand, get a few helpful answers, and think, "Maybe this comic is designed to bring the issue of transsexuals into the open and spark discussion/learning about it!"

Then I get up and read the last six pages. Basically everyone stepping on everyone else's toes (intentionally or not) and sniping at each other over it.

If I may ask another question, why do some people write "trans" as "trans*"? Again, I'm only asking because this is something I have no experience with, I'm not intending to cause offense here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: StevenC on 19 Nov 2012, 09:12
the * is used in a lot of contexts as a placeholder. Like when you put into your computer search *.jpg it will show you all files that end in .jpg. In this context it means that it encompasses all different trans folk.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rainforce on 19 Nov 2012, 09:13
trans*
Another question from one of the people who are somewhat uneducated on the matter:
what's that asterisk about?
(I mostly notice because it totally breaks MY reading flow, not that that is any kind of relevant factor when it comes to writing something)

EDIT: thank you, post above, I guess.......
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 19 Nov 2012, 09:16
the * is used in a lot of contexts as a placeholder. Like when you put into your computer search *.jpg it will show you all files that end in .jpg. In this context it means that it encompasses all different trans folk.

Ah, okay. That makes sense. Carry on, and thank you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 19 Nov 2012, 09:18
I just refreshed the page from two o' clock this morning.  The page count jumped from two to six... Looks like its going to be a big page week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 19 Nov 2012, 09:20
the * is used in a lot of contexts as a placeholder. Like when you put into your computer search *.jpg it will show you all files that end in .jpg. In this context it means that it encompasses all different trans folk.

They're called glob patterns, and I happen to intensely dislike them.  Learn proper regexes, people!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Just Karen on 19 Nov 2012, 09:25
the * is used in a lot of contexts as a placeholder. Like when you put into your computer search *.jpg it will show you all files that end in .jpg. In this context it means that it encompasses all different trans folk.

Wildcard, not placeholder.  Same difference, I suppose, except that a placeholder is waiting for one thing while a wildcard means all of the above.  Back in the DOS days you could use ? as a replacement for a single character or * as a "take everything to this point and find all the matches".

Transgender is an umbrella term; it includes transvestite, crossdresser, transsexual of either variety, genderfluid, genderqueer, and probably a few other variants I'm not thinking of.  To simplify it when you are referring to the category, trans* is generally acceptable.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Uniquitous on 19 Nov 2012, 09:28
Heh, given the mirror-image nature of Clinton and Claire, it would be humorous if Clinton was also trans, just headed in the other direction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: idontunderstand on 19 Nov 2012, 09:34
It would be humorous in a kind of Laurel and Hardy way which wouldn't suit the comic, tho.

Really brave of Claire to just tell Marten like that. Makes me wonder who else knows at this point. Atta, girl.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: muffin_of_chaos on 19 Nov 2012, 09:42
I have a hard time understanding gender issues.
I have a hard time understanding why anyone would make gender an important aspect in their identity or lifestyle.
But that's part of my privilege, I'm aware.

Right now, comic-wise, I'm just curious if any of the characters will react negatively to Claire, if she were to come out to the others.  I can't really see it.  I think that if no one tries to have a dialogue about it, if it's just sort of accepted and only subtly touched upon over time, it might be a wasted opportunity.  Only because of Jeph's rather large and somewhat mainstream audience.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Uniquitous on 19 Nov 2012, 09:51
It would be humorous in a kind of Laurel and Hardy way which wouldn't suit the comic, tho.

Yeah, you're probably right. Marten handled it right, anyway. My reaction to being told such things is generally "So...?" People are people. Subdividing ourselves into tribes identified by words or acronyms only serves to reinforce the us-versus-not-us narrative.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ink slinger on 19 Nov 2012, 10:47
I'm surprised that Claire would share this with Marten so early in their relationship. But, I guess the "you're one of [my friends] now" comment was enough for her to feel safe telling him. They have, after all, being working together and casually hanging out for a while now. And, one of my best friends told me he was gay pretty much as soon as we met, so I guess it really depends on the individual (I know that being gay is not the same thing as being trans, but the coming out aspect seems somewhat analogous).

I am curious, though, how common it is for trans people to come out as Claire did if they're already living as their preferred gender. None of the (very few) trans people I've known have identified as anything other than women (they were all FTM). Even the one who I actually knew before she transitioned has only ever been a woman to me since her transition and has never explicitly identified as trans (though, I lost contact with her for many years and only reconnected after she had starting living as a woman, so maybe I missed the coming out stage of her experience).

(I apologize if this has already been discussed upthread, but there are so many pages and I've decided to skip most of them in order to avoid the drama that seems to have developed.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mojo on 19 Nov 2012, 11:01
I have to admit, I'm not all that suprised.  I'd been thinking how odd it would be that Claire should look like her twin brother.  Identical twins come from a single egg (Monozygotic), so they would be the same gender.  For a male/female twin combo, you would expect dizygotic twins, who would not look any more alike than any other siblings.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zingoleb on 19 Nov 2012, 11:05
They're not twins (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 11:11
I want to talk about the comic.

Claire is not a "trans person introduced to appeal to a demographic". She is a high-strung driven character introduced to be funny, who has a background. So far every background we know about has been non-boring.

She is not there to push an agenda. Jeph's comments about people trying to read an agenda into the comic are a matter of record and, er, frank and unambiguous.

The comic was also characterization in that it revealed Claire is a good judge of people. She figured out that Marten was a safe person to talk to about a sensitive personal subject.

EDIT: Oh, and welcome, new people!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lummer on 19 Nov 2012, 11:12
I want to talk about the comic.

Claire is not a "trans person introduced to appeal to a demographic". She is a high-strung driven character introduced to be funny, who has a background. So far every background we know about has been non-boring.

She is not there to push an agenda. Jeph's comments about people trying to read an agenda into the comic are a matter of record and, er, frank and unambiguous.

The comic was also characterization in that it revealed Claire is a good judge of people. She figured out that Marten was a safe person to talk to about a sensitive personal subject.

Boom.

Also, Paul, you have PM.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emperor Norton on 19 Nov 2012, 11:12
... Every time I see the * used as a wildcard I start looking for a footnote...*

*not saying its bad, just commenting on my brain being trained to look for footnotes when someone puts a * in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 19 Nov 2012, 11:29
I thought it was going to be 15 tops by friday... But I guess I'm going to lose on that bet. I'd say 20 by friday now.

Are we really making semi-crude* comments about someone's appearance in terms of 'hotness' right now?
What? So now I can't say someone looks very good and I find really attractive?

C'mon....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rainforce on 19 Nov 2012, 11:56
Also, 12 pages by Wednesday. Anyone want to take that bet?
I raise to 14 minimum.
I mean, we still have the tuesday comic, and wednesday is loooong and includes another comic as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: haikupoet on 19 Nov 2012, 12:28
I have to admit, I'm not all that suprised.  I'd been thinking how odd it would be that Claire should look like her twin brother.  Identical twins come from a single egg (Monozygotic), so they would be the same gender.  For a male/female twin combo, you would expect dizygotic twins, who would not look any more alike than any other siblings.

Well, it's already established that Claire is a couple years older than Clinton, but that's less of a thing than you'd think. I have cousins -- a pair of fraternal twins and a younger sister -- and if you saw them all together you'd swear they were triplets. (Yes, I did say fraternal.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: gijora on 19 Nov 2012, 12:54
*A wild lurker appears!*

Claire, I don't care what parts you have, I still think you're hot.

So there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 12:59
Welcome, new person!

Human/cartoon attractions are frowned on here, though you may simply have meant "if she were real she'd be my type".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blyss on 19 Nov 2012, 13:17
I mean this in all sincerity, as I am merely trying to understand: Claire was born male?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Oglokoog on 19 Nov 2012, 13:23
So, this made me register. I mean, the realistic portrayal of a bi character was awesome (along with all the other stuff, too numerous to name, but that stood out), but this just blew my mind. Inclusion for the win! :-)

I mean this in all sincerity, as I am merely trying to understand: Claire was born male?

Most likely.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: idontunderstand on 19 Nov 2012, 13:24
Regarding "choice": Well, thank you for the replies. It's the way I thought it was. I didn't choose my gender and neither did you trans people out there.

[I can be really slow with stuff like this, I remember being younger and asking my sister "do homosexual men really masturbate and think of dudes??" and she would answer "well what the hell do you think?" and of course she was right and I realized how stupid I was. Well, it's happened again I suppose.]

I mean this in all sincerity, as I am merely trying to understand: Claire was born male?

I understand it as we don't know that yet, we only know she identifies as trans*.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ShermanFirefly on 19 Nov 2012, 13:31
Heyo,

Long time lurker here. I've been reading for a year or two now, and I registered to commend Jeph Jacques for introducing such a multi dimensional trans character. I myself am cis-gender or whatever you want to call it, but I think that there is far too much prejudice against the trans community, even today.

Good work.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mothykins on 19 Nov 2012, 13:50
Well. That was unexpected o.o Kinda cool, though. You don't see many trans characters in media, unless its specifically aimed at the LGBTQ community. Nice to see that trend get broken now and then :)

[/very late to the party]
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: maleia on 19 Nov 2012, 14:04
Been reading the comic for years now.  Didn't even know there was a forums until the other day with the guest strip mentioning, lol.

I like that Jeph has made this comic and it's characters about inclusion, and that Claire is not just to appease one particular audience.  This takes me back to the original concepts behind Star Trek, and Roddenberry's vision of a non-racist, non-sexist utopian future.  I think Jeph will do a good job of working those aspects in, in the future as well as I think he's done a good job of that in the past.  It will be comics like this that someday, we'll look back on and say that they helped to pave the way for a future where these things are normal and accepted, where they are not currently.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 14:19
There's "confusion", and there's the fact that English is not at all suited for the task at hand.

Jeph is going to do a respectful job, based on all we've seen of his work. He's visibly tried to educate himself.

Oh lord. I just imagined Emily asking questions with the same amount of sensitivity, awareness, and tact that she showed with Momo. I hope she doesn't find out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 19 Nov 2012, 14:21
I'm not sure what would be worse - Emily finding out, or a drunken Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 14:27
I'm not sure what would be worse - Emily finding out, or a drunken Faye.

Tai is probably going to try and get everyone to go skinny dipping again. Claire doesn't want to, and someone, possibly drunken!Emily, will pants her and boom! Shock and confusion while Marten facepalms and Clinton screams because he doesn't want to see what his sister has.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Nov 2012, 14:37
I mean this in all sincerity, as I am merely trying to understand: Claire was born male?
We don't know yet.

Ah, 12 new posts, one of them answered it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 19 Nov 2012, 15:02
Oh lord. I just imagined Emily asking questions with the same amount of sensitivity, awareness, and tact that she showed with Momo. I hope she doesn't find out.

It depends on which Asian background Emily is that Jeph decides on. Some embrace "third genders" somewhat easily, others mock it openly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 19 Nov 2012, 15:06
I was under the impression that Emily was of Japanese descent?

In any case, though, it's Emily. Her only rival in tactlessness is Faye, and Faye has to be severely drunk to match it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: haikupoet on 19 Nov 2012, 15:14
I've just gotta say, I'm still bummed that my old guess of Emily being the trans character was wrong. I was so sure the first intern to take an interest in Momo would be the one.

I mean, seriously, the existence of a race of sentient beings that can freely swap between bodies whenever they feel like it has got to be annoying as hell for a struggling transperson in QC-verse.

I'm pretty sure Emily was a red herring. Tall Asian girl? Too obvious. Skittish little redhead who, we now realize, was always behaving like she was hiding a secret? You might not think of it in advance, but it makes total sense in hindsight.

Come to think of it, it also puts an interesting spin on her revulsion towards her brother -- based on what we know of Clinton so far, I'm going to guess he was just a little bit too supportive of finding out his big brother was becoming his big sister. (I mean, yeah, he could have been transphobic about it, but let's be honest -- Claire doesn't really hate him, admits as much, and Clinton is probably the sort of person who wakes up squeeing every morning when it's time to put on the robot hand. He's probably unable to understand just how awkward Claire's situation is.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 19 Nov 2012, 15:20
There's "confusion", and there's the fact that English is not at all suited for the task at hand.

Jeph is going to do a respectful job, based on all we've seen of his work. He's visibly tried to educate himself.

This subject was treated, very briefly, in the movie A Mighty Wind
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PHDrillSergeant on 19 Nov 2012, 15:21
Well. That was unexpected o.o Kinda cool, though. You don't see many trans characters in media, unless its specifically aimed at the LGBTQ community. Nice to see that trend get broken now and then :)

[/very late to the party]

Yeah, except for Jodie Dallas in Soap, David's childhood friend fromJust Shoot Me, one of Becker's old colleagues in Becker, the character Mackenzie Philips played in The Love Boat, George's navy buddy in The Jeffersons, Alexis Meade in Ugly Betty, Quagmire's dad in Family Guy, Candis Cane's character in Dirty Sexy Money, Yamaziki's friend in the manga Welcome to NHK, Natani in the webcomic TwoKinds, The Tya in the tabletop game Exalted, Elendira the Crimsonnail in Trigun Maximum, Arakune in Angel Sanctuary, Coagula from DC Comics' Doom Patrol, the villain in Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, Ava Moore from Nip/Tuck, and Cassandra from Doctor Who...And just since Questionable Content is so based around music, don't forget "Lady Godiva's Operation" by Velvet Underground.

My point, of course, is that including a transsexual character is not new to media.

Maybe I'm just the cynic, but why does this matter so much? Does this drastically change Claire, as a character? I don't think so. People are people are people are people. Who you find bangable (AND WHO YOU WOULD PREFER TO FIND YOU BANGABLE) should not be a definition of who you are.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 15:28
On a somewhat completely different topic:

For you newcomers who weren't here a few years ago (ironically, right around US Thanksgiving time in 2010), when Dora and Marten broke up, we had threads closed over back-biting on a regular basis. There were some posters on here who essentially posted things to "stir $#!+ up", as it is colloquially termed. Due to the great mod team (PWHodges, IICIH, and the others whose names escape me at the present), we managed to not only get things calmed down, but we also prevented the wrath of Jeph.

As I have essentially taken over the "job" of getting the WCDT up on a regular basis - and was one of those behind strip 23161 - I do tend to get a bit touchy when I comment on the comic, go to bed, wake up and discover that there are now EIGHT PAGES of comments. I have visions of bans, locked threads and general acrimony and vitriol dancing in my head again.

Jeph has stated that the moral of the comic is that people should be try to be nice to each other. We've come a long way over the last few years - to the point where strip 2316 actually came about. I'd kinda like to keep it that way.

Also, I'm on a streak of consecutive threads started without one being locked... ;)

---

1 - For those of you wondering, check over here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28371.0.html) for more on how strip 2316 came to fruition.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Renewman on 19 Nov 2012, 15:30
<quoting reduced by moderator>

It depends on which Asian background Emily is that Jeph decides on. Some embrace "third genders" somewhat easily, others mock it openly.

Her surname has been given as Azuma, which is Japanese (it's in homage to the author of Azumanga Daioh, of course). I don't know the status of trans people in Japan - I would suspect fraught.

Transgendered people in Japan is a quite touchy subject like it is here in America. Most are either shunned or disowned by family and friends as being shameful to the family. Mix that with the idea of them being fetish material (just like America!) and you have a whole can of crazy. This is spoken from someone who lived in Japan and had Trans friends there.

 Also, it seem I may have misspoken when I originally posted my comment about Jeph jumping the shark. What I was trying to say is that the way he went about doing it in this comic made it seem ok and normal which is fine, but came out of left field. I'm not buying the whole argument of "Well if you have been paying attention, you would of KNOWN it was coming!" With as many crazy and wacky things that go on in the world of QC, a fraternal brother and sister seemed quite normal. Besides, if I had to guess who was Trans from just looking at the group, my guess would have been Emily (like everyone else). It's just going to be hard for people to understand how I possibly see this when everyone is too busy slapping each others asses and agreeing with each other. With that being said, I don't think Jeph would be able to delve into Marten possibly having a romantic relationship with Claire without having something result from it. I'm still pulling for Gabby or Marigold!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emperor Norton on 19 Nov 2012, 15:50
The are not twins! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277)

Seriously, I know its silly of me to be getting annoyed at this, but can people please stop calling them twins. Its already been established in canon that Claire is three years older than Clinton. I don't think its possible for one twin to be three years older than the other.

I find it especially annoying when someone is criticizing Jeph for not putting in enough clues when the person can't seem to be clued in to something that has been straight out SAID (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281) in the dialogue of the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 19 Nov 2012, 16:03
But who can read all those little words?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Omega Entity on 19 Nov 2012, 16:07
The are not twins! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277)

Seriously, I know its silly of me to be getting annoyed at this, but can people please stop calling them twins. Its already been established in canon that Claire is three years older than Clinton. I don't think its possible for one twin to be three years older than the other.

I find it especially annoying when someone is criticizing Jeph for not putting in enough clues when the person can't seem to be clued in to something that has been straight out SAID (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281) in the dialogue of the comic.

Not a silly thing to be annoyed by - I've been annoyed by that too. I've found I've had to repeat myself on a number of occasions on things like that (namely, that Tai had always been poly, when it was stated quite clearly that she was not, and even had an aversion to the idea of being poly until a substance-induced night of shenanigans).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 16:11
They are not twins! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277)

Seriously, I know its silly of me to be getting annoyed at this, but can people please stop calling them twins. Its already been established in canon that Claire is three years older than Clinton. I don't think its possible for one twin to be three years older than the other.

I find it especially annoying when someone is criticizing Jeph for not putting in enough clues when the person can't seem to be clued in to something that has been straight out SAID (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281) in the dialogue of the comic.

Yeah, its not silly at all. Its along the lines of people calling him Martin. Its something that has been stated in black and white but people still get it wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 19 Nov 2012, 16:20
I've found I've had to repeat myself on a number of occasions on things like that (namely, that Tai had always been poly, when it was stated quite clearly that she was not, and even had an aversion to the idea of being poly until a substance-induced night of shenanigans).
I wonder if Claire would have raised the same ire as Tai did if she had come out as not being trans?


(For those that aren't aware, there was Internet Drama when Tai confessed to being unhappy with her sleeping arrangements and expressed a preference for monogamy; for some bizarre reason this was interpreted (by tumblr, natch) as a universal condemnation of all poly people ever on Jeph's part)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 19 Nov 2012, 16:30
I think it's awesome that Claire already had a clear, complex personality and role in the strip before we learned she was trans.  Jeph didn't introduce her as "the trans character," he introduced a full-fledged CHARACTER who, among her many facets, is trans.

Gosh, it must really bug Claire when people tell her how much she looks like Clinton--not only someone who drives her nuts, but also a dude!

I can easily picture Clinton having responded to Claire's transition by totally geeking out on surgical possibilities and processes in a way that was free of prejudice but really freakin' annoying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 16:52
Welcome, new person!

Thoughts on posts above:

Wow, that was a good point about AnthroPCs. Remember, not only can they change their external expression whenever they can afford it, their internal identity is a software configuration setting that can be changed.

The closest thing to an answer to "What does it matter?" is that it matters a lot to Claire, and to any friend close enough to know where she's coming from. For day to day life, not at all of course.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 17:16
The Return of the OMGTurkeys! What are YOU thankful for?

The strip.    46 (14.6%)
Jeph's health.    65 (20.6%)  <== See, Jeph? We really DO care about you. Honest!
MY health.    36 (11.4%)
YOUR health.    18 (5.7%)
Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).    56 (17.7%)
This forum.    16 (5.1%)
Turkey and all the trimmings.    11 (3.5%)
The interwebs.    32 (10.1%)
Something else.    13 (4.1%)
Spathe Ham!    6 (1.9%)
...must... read... ALL the posts...    17 (5.4%)

Total Members Voted: 116
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: delciotto on 19 Nov 2012, 17:34
This puts Claire's comment in the last panel of this comic in a new light

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2280
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Oglokoog on 19 Nov 2012, 17:35
This puts Claire's comment in the last panel of this comic in a new light

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2280

Yes, I believe that has been brought up a couple times now.

The are not twins! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277)

Seriously, I know its silly of me to be getting annoyed at this, but can people please stop calling them twins. Its already been established in canon that Claire is three years older than Clinton. I don't think its possible for one twin to be three years older than the other.

I find it especially annoying when someone is criticizing Jeph for not putting in enough clues when the person can't seem to be clued in to something that has been straight out SAID (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281) in the dialogue of the comic.

Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emperor Norton on 19 Nov 2012, 17:45
Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.

That seems like a highly unlikely thing to lie about. What would be the purpose?

I really don't think this needs outside writer corroboration, its spelled out in black and white. To suggest otherwise is a bit of a epileptic tree theory.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Oglokoog on 19 Nov 2012, 17:48
Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.
That seems like a highly unlikely thing to lie about. What would be the purpose?

To avoid outing her as trans, maybe?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emperor Norton on 19 Nov 2012, 17:49
To avoid outing her as trans, maybe?

How would them being twins out her as trans?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LovelyAngel on 19 Nov 2012, 17:57
It's made me happy to see so many other trans* people posting in this thread. Just warm the very cockles of my heart.

*smiles* *waves*

Today's comic certainly brought a lot of transfolk out of the woodwork. We should have a party or sumthin'. Maybe a Questionable Gender Party.  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Oglokoog on 19 Nov 2012, 18:00
To avoid outing her as trans, maybe?
How would them being twins out her as trans?
Because they look identical (obviously, stylized art, but still). Of course, there are dizygotic twins (i.e. not identical) but it still seems to me like it's easier to just claim they're not twins at all. And seriously - you don't find their insistence that they're not twins the least bit fishy?
I'm not saying they are twins, just that the possibility is there until Jeph confirms it outside of the comic (which he already might have, for all I know).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 18:18
Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.

I would like to point people to Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is often the correct one. In this instance, the solution here comes straight from the horse's mouth, both from Clinton and Claire.. Why would Claire state that she was three years old than her brother? If they were twins, than surely this little white lie would make her look foolish.

Siblings don't have to be twins in order to look quite similar. Strong familial traits can create the appearance of siblings being twins, despite an age gap of several years. What people tend to focus on are the eyes, the nose and the jawline, they proceed to fill in the rest of the face without really paying attention to it. If we look at Claire and Clinton now, we can see there are some masculine traits in Claire's face, such as the slightly larger nose, the chin. We see a family resembelance, not proof that they are twins.

Some siblings look a like, some look completely different. Its as easy as that. There is no conspiracy of them really being twins to cover up Claire being trans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emperor Norton on 19 Nov 2012, 18:19
Because they look identical (obviously, stylized art, but still). Of course, there are dizygotic twins (i.e. not identical) but it still seems to me like it's easier to just claim they're not twins at all. And seriously - you don't find their insistence that they're not twins the least bit fishy?
I'm not saying they are twins, just that the possibility is there until Jeph confirms it outside of the comic (which he already might have, for all I know).

Its also a possibility that Marten is really a martian, I mean, Hey, Jeph hasn't stated that he isn't!, but I consider it highly unlikely. (and this requires even less stretching because Marten has never claimed he isn't either (that I remember))

The whole twin thing just sounds like two siblings who look very similar who are tired of being called twins.

Lying about their ages is just a weird thing to do. Let's say for arguments sake that you are right.

Either

A) She is lying about her own age and is really 21, and if so, amazing job getting to grad school that young. And most people who manage something like that are very PROUD of doing that, and are not likely to want to lie and say they are older.

or

B) She is lying about her brothers age, and I'm sorry, I wouldn't agree to claiming I'm 3 years younger than I am just to cover someones paranoia.

or

C) She is lying about BOTH Of their ages, and I think we all agree this is the most absurd option.

Either way, this continued charade would require one of them to not be able to celebrate their birthdays at the appropriate time, and all on the OFF chance that someone would go "hey these two twins look the same, but are opposite genders, ever think they might have BOTH been assigned as male at birth". Some siblings look remarkably alike, some twins of opposite gender look very similar. They do come from the same genetic stock after all.

The idea that they are actually twins and are lying about it is such a stretch of any form of logic. Its just patently absurd to consider.

(Also, go back through their interactions. Claire reads VERY MUCH like the elder sibling in their interactions.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 18:19
She has stated that she's 24, and he's 21. Unless Clinton says at a later time that he's not 21 - which is unlikely, since HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277) - then we should probably assume that they are telling the truth and they are not, in fact, twins. Occam's Razor and all that.

EDIT: #### it, NINJA'D by the Red Text AGAIN.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 18:21
EDIT: #### it, NINJA'D by the Red Text AGAIN.

It's alright, it happens to everyone at some point.  :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 18:22
Oh? Well, how many times did it happen to YOU before you posted this last time? :P  :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 18:27
Once.
Twice.
Three times annoying!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2012, 18:28
That's why I'm on the forum skin that has the option to turn that off.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PHDrillSergeant on 19 Nov 2012, 18:32
...HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277) - then we should probably assume...

In that comic. Second panel, on claire.

Bam. Adam's apple.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PHDrillSergeant on 19 Nov 2012, 18:34
...HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277) - then we should probably assume...

In that comic. Second panel, on claire.

Bam. Adam's apple.

In fact, that adam's apple is visible in a few pages. Most notably, this one: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vurogj on 19 Nov 2012, 18:44
...HE said "WE'RE NOT TWINS" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2277) - then we should probably assume...
In fact, that adam's apple is visible in a few pages. Most notably, this one: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278
In both the comics you quoted, look at Hannelore.

EDIT : Quoted is the wrong word, one was a quote of jwhouk, one was a citation by yourself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 18:49
I believe that PHDrillSergeant is referring to here:

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/PaulC1984/2277.png)

Circled spot.

It might be a trick of the light, but it does look like an Adam's Apple. I see no such spot on Hanners' neck.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/PaulC1984/2278.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sassafras on 19 Nov 2012, 19:01
I think that's her sternocleidomastoid muscle, which becomes easier to see when you turn your head like that. It's too far to the side to be an adam's apple.

Also it's kind of creepy to go through her appearances with a fine-tooth comb, looking for "male" physical traits. I don't think Jeph would have been quite that crass.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 19 Nov 2012, 19:05
I believe that PHDrillSergeant is referring to here:

<snip>

Circled spot.

It might be a trick of the light, but it does look like an Adam's Apple. I see no such spot on Hanners' neck.
<snip>

It would seem a bit bizarre since Marten doesn't have a noticeable adam's apple, and I can't really see one on Steve or Angus. Of course, Neither I or my brother have a noticeable adam's apple so it could be genetic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Nov 2012, 19:32
Has Jeph confirmed it outside of the comic? Because the possibility that they actually are twins and only say they're not is still there if he hasn't.
Wait, what? That's not how it works. It was said in the comic which makes it canon. The only thing that could overturn that is if it was somehow shown she was lying...also within the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 19 Nov 2012, 19:56
gratuitous post to get this to show up on my "new replies" button
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ponderch3rry on 19 Nov 2012, 20:17
Is it REALLY necessary to go through every picture of Claire and point out every physical aspect that MIGHT be interpreted as "male"? It's incredibly rude, disrespectful and really goes against what Jeph is trying to say in the latest comic. Marten reacts with an "OK, cool" because QC is a world of diversities and most importantly, acceptance.

You want to know how to treat trans people? As PEOPLE. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AnalogyShark on 19 Nov 2012, 20:32
Is it REALLY necessary to go through every picture of Claire and point out every physical aspect that MIGHT be interpreted as "male"? It's incredibly rude, disrespectful and really goes against what Jeph is trying to say in the latest comic. Marten reacts with an "OK, cool" because QC is a world of diversities and most importantly, acceptance.

You want to know how to treat trans people? As PEOPLE.

It is when evaluating Jeph's work as a work of writing.  If Claire was a real person, yes, this would be incredibly rude.  But she isn't.  She's a construct of Jeph's mind.  These people are just providing proof that this was a planned event that was sufficiently foreshadowed, and not just an ass pull, in terms of the writing.

So far I believe the lips argument has been the strongest one.

Sorry if someone's mentioned this already...  But there was another visual foreshadowing that Claire was trans which exists.

Male characters do not have lips in QC, only female characters.  Claire has no lips.  That's an indication that she's genetically male, as it's a universal sex trait in the QC universe.

(http://i46.tinypic.com/25k7jps.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 20:40
I hope we can treat Claire as a person and still play the over-analysis game.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2012, 20:54
I hope we can treat Claire as a person and still play the over-analysis game.
Its the best kind of game!

But as it has been said by numerous people, myself included, trans* are people, who deserve respect, as everyone does. I don't think looking back to look for clues in previous comics doesn't take away from Claire, but rather, its like a film or a book that has a major twist near the end. The instinct is to go back and to look/read through the material again and realise there are subtle hints along the way. Which reflects well on Jeph's skill, that he had this planned so well in advance to leave such clues in the open that everyone overlooked it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 19 Nov 2012, 21:02
10 pages and it's only Monday.     :-o

Just a friendly non-moderator threat of over-the-top retaliation, violence and horrible violation:    Jeph is already strung out because of his hand injury and the fallout from the tumblr incident.     He's going out on a limb with this new arc... and I for one applaud it.

ANYTHING that smacks of antagonizing the already stressed Mr. Jeph further will be dealt with via vigorous belt-sanding.     And I don't mean fine-grit either.       Should that fail to discourage you...  I have a high-speed stainless-steel WIRE BRUSH that you might like to meet.     8-)


Please resume the entertaining discussions, over-analysis and petty-bickering.     Few things entertain me more than this forum when I am having a medication-induced insomnia-fit.    :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: maxh on 19 Nov 2012, 21:04
fallout from the tumblr incident
But which one?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rockman on 19 Nov 2012, 21:04
The lips thing is definitely interesting, and kudos for putting that together!  That was yours, right Karilyn?  But I wonder if it's just stylistic coincidence for Claire - she and Marigold seem to be two of Jeph's favorite characters to draw lately, and I don't think Marigold has lips most of the time.  Both do the funny overbite thing sometimes ("I'M EV TRAINING DRAGONITE!  SEE?"), too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: henri bemis on 19 Nov 2012, 21:23
I understand the impulse to anyalyze every bit of media I like, but I can also see that it would be really hurtful to someone if they told me they were trans* and my response was "oh, NOW I see it!  I'm going to scrutinize your body and point out all the imperfections I didn't even notice before!"  Which is not to say I don't think there's value in going back through the comic, but I think Claire's words more than her appearance are better foreshadowing. 

I loved this comic.  Panel 5, in particular.  So much said without dialogue!  I may have squeed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AngelofShadows on 19 Nov 2012, 21:35
I haven't seen this much discussion this quickly since the discussion thread during break up week (good times....good times. For me. It was funny to read. I imagine it was horrible for the mods)

I am overjoyed by the (mostly) mature discussion about what is not the easiest topic to discuss.

I am saddened by the lack of Psyduck.

I am always saddened by the lack of Psyduck.

 :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tormuse on 19 Nov 2012, 22:22
I hope we can treat Claire as a person and still play the over-analysis game.

Hmm...  while I applaud everyone's thirst for knowledge and enjoy over-analysis myself sometimes, and I can understand the position of, "she's a fictional character, so she won't mind," I can also understand the perspective that it seems a bit creepy to dissect Claire's every appearance like this, especially in light of the recent influx of trans people joining this forum because of this comic.  I hope people can keep the discussion in good taste, because I can already foresee that line of conversation descending into angry arguments.

The answer to these questions (Is he ftm or is she mtf? Pre-Op or Post-Op?) has a huge bearing on her identity. Since she (since we don't know for sure and I absolutely HATE to use they as a pronoun for a single person, I'll use the female form for Claire now) is not a real person that we can interact with there is no reference, like voice, habit or the content of a conversation, to learn about her identity.

I think it's safe to call Claire "she."  The fact that she used the phrase, "I'm trans" so matter-of-factly suggests that she has already transitioned to her target gender.  (One way or another)  I think that, if she meant that she was about to transition to a male identity, she would have used different words than "I'm trans."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: St.Clair on 19 Nov 2012, 22:26
I think the twins assumption is due to their VERY similar appearance within the strip - honestly, how many panels in which they both appear are literal copy-pastes, not to mention the original concept art?

I'm not sure how well Jeph's art style can convey an age difference of only a few years (when both characters are physically-mature adults).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 19 Nov 2012, 22:34
I understand the impulse to anyalyze every bit of media I like, but I can also see that it would be really hurtful to someone if they told me they were trans* and my response was "oh, NOW I see it!  I'm going to scrutinize your body and point out all the imperfections I didn't even notice before!"  Which is not to say I don't think there's value in going back through the comic, but I think Claire's words more than her appearance are better foreshadowing. 

I loved this comic.  Panel 5, in particular.  So much said without dialogue!  I may have squeed.

I wouldn't say they were looking for "imperfections." At least, nobody has phrased it that way. They were just trying to see whether there was any noticeable foreshadowing in the art that might have allowed them to see this coming.

I might be off-base here, but my impression is that this forum tends to play the overanalysis game with every character and every comic. It's just getting on more people's nerves here because it's a very delicate subject that lots of people are intensely curious about due to a lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ponderch3rry on 19 Nov 2012, 22:36
Clinton and Claire are not twins.

Claire is 24 and Clinton is 21.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 22:39
I understand the impulse to anyalyze every bit of media I like, but I can also see that it would be really hurtful to someone if they told me they were trans* and my response was "oh, NOW I see it!  I'm going to scrutinize your body and point out all the imperfections I didn't even notice before!"  Which is not to say I don't think there's value in going back through the comic, but I think Claire's words more than her appearance are better foreshadowing. 

I loved this comic.  Panel 5, in particular.  So much said without dialogue!  I may have squeed.

Well said!

BobTheApple, welcome.

EDIT: Yes about over-analysis. New people, please know that we always think too hard about things and look too hard for details.

Also, we're used to discovering foreshadowing when we look back after something interesting happens. The Talk had several hints leading up to it, ditto the Faye/Sven affair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2012, 23:53
I've been reading QC since around comic 100, and this comic and the forums discussion made me register for the first time, despite a general dislike of forums.  (No offense to those of you who like them!  Just, y'know.)

None taken. Forums have horrible failure modes and are hard to get right.

Thank you for respectfully explaining things (yes, including the lack of obligation to explain things!).

Welcome to you and the other two new people!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fluke on 20 Nov 2012, 00:02
Just popping in to add that Jeph just said Claire was MtF on his stream for those who have been theorizing :)

The lip theory is a neat one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 20 Nov 2012, 00:16
Why is it in general that men aren't drawn with lips, anyway?  Sometimes it's that lips are only drawn when someone's wearing lipstick, but often women are drawn with faint lips even when they aren't supposed to be wearing lipstick, whereas men have none except on the rare occasions they do.  Lips can be pretty obvious; I remember being struck by how much mine stood out when I took off my moustache.

But seriously, I kind of hope Jeph didn't intend that.  All this looking for tells is awful.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 20 Nov 2012, 00:20
But seriously, I kind of hope Jeph didn't intend that.  All this looking for tells is awful.

Awww come on, we haven't gotten to analyzing the text bubbles backwards for clues and satanic messages (or maybe a good pea soup recipe)!! lol
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Catayana on 20 Nov 2012, 00:21
Why is it in general that men aren't drawn with lips, anyway?  Sometimes it's that lips are only drawn when someone's wearing lipstick, but often women are drawn with faint lips even when they aren't supposed to be wearing lipstick, whereas men have none except on the rare occasions they do.  Lips can be pretty obvious; I remember being struck by how much mine stood out when I took off my moustache.

It's just one of those little details that makes people view a character as male or female. While in real life ladies can have small lips and men can have large lips, it can be fairly hard to draw a male character with large lips, especially ones that aren't very butch, and have them still look male to your audience.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 20 Nov 2012, 00:21
I've been having trouble keeping up with this thread - it's just moving too quickly.

No kidding.

Quote
Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post. 
I havent even started writing said post and I should already "review" it ?


Quote
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post. 
Gah ! Just post this dammit !
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mojo on 20 Nov 2012, 00:31
They're not twins (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281).

D'oh!  I knew that...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 20 Nov 2012, 01:04
Yet another long-time trans* reader lured out of the shadows of the Internet over this comic!

Mostly wanted to say thanks for the refreshingly mature discussions, and the links!

Also I must warn you of a terrible fate that may befall us all!
Jeph sez: "OCD IS BAD: Nitpicking and/or placing way too much importance on minutiae while missing the big picture is probably Jeph's biggest pet peeve. Not every little detail is Fraught With Meaning."  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 20 Nov 2012, 01:05
The entire discussion shines an interesting light on this comic (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2301).

I think Claire is well set in with whatever she is / calls herself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 20 Nov 2012, 01:16
The entire discussion shines an interesting light on this comic (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2301).

Is it her reaction, or the awkwardness she has in her body language? Call me stupid, but according to one of my Trangender friends, the hormone treatments she's taking pretty much has made her penis unresponsive even to sexual stimulation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 20 Nov 2012, 01:21
The blush. Dude. The blush. Why do people always go straight for the pelvic reaction?  :psyduck:

I mean seriously... in about 7 pages of heavy discussion I managed to keep my mind far away from anything below the belt... I am just too innocent. °O
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 20 Nov 2012, 01:25
Oh thank god, I finally caught up.  Well, that's what happens at 4 AM, the thread slows down. 

A little. 



I used to participate in the Penny & Aggie forum a few years back, and remember being thoroughly educated there about gender/sex/sexuality.  I want to commend everyone on the work being done here, and the fact that, though there was some vitriol at first in a few reactions, the overall atmosphere of the forums prevailed.  It's sooo nice to see. 

And welcome to our new posters.  It's an interesting crowd - and I'm glad you've found us. 

Oh, and Jeph's finally working on the next comic (https://t.co/XFCXcsVU).  Wonder where we'll be going from here?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 20 Nov 2012, 01:39
The blush. Dude. The blush. Why do people always go straight for the pelvic reaction?  :psyduck:

I mean seriously... in about 7 pages of heavy discussion I managed to keep my mind far away from anything below the belt... I am just too innocent. °O

Cause when I think of blushing, I don't instantly think of it being an indicator if someone is a biological male/female, or an affont to certain idiotic people with small........minds.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 20 Nov 2012, 01:43
And I think today's comic (sort of) answers most questions about which state Claire is in now.

... still feel the same about the character btw. ... *shrugs*


The blush. Dude. The blush. Why do people always go straight for the pelvic reaction?  :psyduck:
[ ... ]
Cause when I think of blushing, I don't instantly think of it being an indicator if someone is a biological male/female, or an affont to certain idiotic people with small........minds.
It is an indicator of being attracted to/by something IN YOUR MIND. Nevermind the outward biological situation. Actually screw the biological situation, I'm thinking about the psychological stuff here. °O
(Really, I have ZERO interest in the bio-male/female debate right now)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 20 Nov 2012, 01:45
<unnecessary quoting removed by moderator>

Fine, Great, moving along......
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 20 Nov 2012, 01:51
I get the feeling someone's kind of pissed at me and I don't understand why.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 20 Nov 2012, 01:54
No, it's just cesario. 


Oh, I wanted to mention to the person looking for an adam's apple on Claire...

a) she doesn't have one, and

2) not all men do.  No one in my family (father and 4 boys) does.  And

iii) Some women have pronounced adams apples, though it's unusual - it's related to the growth of the larynx during puberty. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Chelicerate on 20 Nov 2012, 02:07
To those people going through the comics looking for signs of her being a cis male: stop it. It's really not cool.

I know, I know, "but she's only a character!". How you are reacting reflects on how many, many people react to trans* people IRL. And it's embarrassing and infuriating.

Especially to the person who went "Boom: Adams Apple". Stop that shit. Seriously.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 20 Nov 2012, 02:25
I'm really happy about this development and how it's being handled thus far. I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes and think it will be a great education for people to learn how to be inclusive and non-offending.

This is also a pretty great guideline when it comes to discussing how someone identifies themselves:

http://plunderpuss.net/wordpress/a-rather-important-instructional-comic/
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 20 Nov 2012, 02:36
Looks like Marten is taking a page out of Dr. Sheldon Cooper, PhD.'s manual for social interaction.

It really is a non-optional social convention.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 20 Nov 2012, 03:07
"Hey, Paul, if you could have any superpower of any webcomic's character, which would you choose?"
"I guess Marten's ability to instantaneously sober up between two strips. That guy must get all the chicks."

... just noticed. Of course, on some people coffee CAN have a VERY sobering effect.



[ ... ] They must surely have a policy on the matter. I wonder if I could ask?
I think you should. Asking is / should be free and it would be immensely educational. °O
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 20 Nov 2012, 03:29
Really happy for two things:

A.  The discussion here, while more active than normal, is respectful to each other while still being interesting; and
B.  Marten realizes this is a coffee discussion item, vice need other drinks to try and process. 

Well done. 

And this little revelation certainly clarifies some of Claire's comments earlier in the strip.  I await seeing how some of the others will handle it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Promethean Sky on 20 Nov 2012, 03:37
Thanks Jeph for clearing up the details. One thing I've learned from being around Trans people is that it can mean a whole bunch of different things depending on who's using the term.

I think there are far more Trans people out there than most people realize. Or maybe I just happen to keep crossing paths with them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 20 Nov 2012, 04:20
Really happy for two things:

A.  The discussion here, while more active than normal, is respectful to each other while still being interesting; and
B.  Marten realizes this is a coffee discussion item, vice need other drinks to try and process. 

Well done. 

And this little revelation certainly clarifies some of Claire's comments earlier in the strip.  I await seeing how some of the others will handle it.
Well, it's gotten to the point where people aren't just shooting out questions/speculation about Claire's junk, and getting into the serious territory where these things should end up. It's also great to see trans* people signing up and giving their accounts and insights (and the bajillion links to various trans* information sites also clarified a lot). But it's like someone posted earlier in the thread (I just finished reading it, I am NOT trawling back through to find it, but I WILL thank you anyway for it), and what I've always thought: people just want to be treated as people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: percivaltercy on 20 Nov 2012, 04:28
Hi all!

Long time lurker, long time willing to post, and this thread finally made me get my act together.
English is not my mother language, and I hope that it won't show too badly.
I am finally posting here... Not because I identify in any way with any particular character - or their adventures - but because I somehow identify myself with a bit of each one of them, and with many of the forum contributors, in their views.
I just think that this thread is AWESOME, and it tells a lot about you guys. Needless to say, mostly goooood.
I had a bit of an internal debate with regards to whether I should post this in the "Hi, I'm new" thread instead, but finally made up my mind to say something here.
The comic, in many ways, is dealing with Content that might be considered by some people as Questionable, but the wonderful truth is, what I see here is a lot of people who are very much willing to break barriers and show that common acceptance of human beings - no matter what their particular conditions are - is something worth looking forward too. Even in situations where debate arises. In spite of the <irony>occasional</irony> over-analysis.  :psyduck:
Congratulations to you all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 20 Nov 2012, 04:48
Comics: Good.

Forum: Train crash.

I think I'll take a break from the forum.  No way I'm going to read all that; too much frustration and hostility; too much noise.  Sorry if I thereby also miss out on the good discussion in between.

See you after the storm!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Throg on 20 Nov 2012, 04:49
OK. Just one tiny and utterly tangential observation...but today's strip about Claire really does make me think the QCverse is a post-scarcity world.

"I started transitioning my first year in college"? I had a friend back in college who didn't 'transition' until well after college, and after he was making scads of money on his own. Transitioning is EXPENSIVE. All the more so because it's a wholly elective (duh!) procedure.

So either this is a post-scarcity, everybody's-more-or-less-taken-care-of world, or Claire's family must be rather well-off. Although I guess one could've guessed that because of the artifical prosthetic hand for a firecracker accident.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Harlequin on 20 Nov 2012, 05:03
Jeph's starting to toe the line with "fucking this up."

I would never give permission for someone else to talk about my gender status to anyone else. That's just asking for trouble.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: versidue on 20 Nov 2012, 05:06
Jeph's starting to toe the line with "fucking this up."

I would never give permission for someone else to talk about my gender status to anyone else. That's just asking for trouble.

Lots of people do, though. People have even mentioned being open in a manner similar to Claire's in this very thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Welu on 20 Nov 2012, 05:18
I'm finding the strips and the discussion on this comic very interesting. Although I am wondering where everyone else in the party has gone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Nov 2012, 05:31
Although I am wondering where everyone else in the party has gone.

We've got Claire and Marten on stage; we know that Steve's in bed, Emily has gone floppy (I'm picturing on the sofa or a rug), and Faye and Angus are smooching on the jetty. 

That leaves Tai and Dora (smooching somewhere else?), Marigold (hiding, perhaps?), Cosette (cuddling Steve?)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tormuse on 20 Nov 2012, 05:35
I'm finding the strips and the discussion on this comic very interesting. Although I am wondering where everyone else in the party has gone.

Let's see...  Faye and Angus are making out, possibly making slurping sounds, on the dock.  Steve passed out in bed.  Emily passed out...  somewhere unspecified.  That leaves Hanners, Marigold, Gabby, Cosette, Clinton, Dora, and Tai...

You're right!  That's a lot of people unaccounted for!   :?  (How big is the cabin, anyway?)

EDIT:  Bleah, ninja'd, whatever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Oglokoog on 20 Nov 2012, 05:50
too much frustration and hostility

There's hostility here? I haven't seen any.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Skaltura on 20 Nov 2012, 06:24
1. Claire told Marten under what specific circumstances he can tell people (if they specifically ask about it).

2. Marten is decidedly not the person to blabber about (other people's) personal stuff to strangers, and since the people he might potentially tell are also considered friends of Claire as part of the big Marten Friendship Adoption Circle (MFAC) this is even less likely.

3. The conversation between those two is not over yet.

Gotta run to class, stay frosty :police:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Required_Field on 20 Nov 2012, 06:30
I was kinda hoping the comic would steer into Sci-Fi what with previous strips delving into the A.I in the universe, instead of sexuality of the characters.  Not that it should be an attack on the lgbt community, but colleges like SMIF shoould have been more conservative in their enrollment of their all female students, or else just make it an open campus.                     
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Nov 2012, 06:36
Should on what grounds, other than prejudice?  Are you arguing for a karyotype to be examined as part of the selection process?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 20 Nov 2012, 06:42
...instead of sexuality of the characters. 

As has been stated, being a trans person is not actually about sexuality, it's about gender. 

Quote
...shoould have been more conservative in their enrollment of their all female students, or else just make it an open campus.                   

 :? 

More conservative?  As in openly barring certain types of women?  How would you define that?  Would you have hopeful students subjected to potentially humiliating DNA tests? 



I think you need to read a little more of this thread and think about that idea again. 


Edit:  Ninja'd. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 20 Nov 2012, 06:45
Compared to the other major plot turn threads, this one is mild by comparison.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 20 Nov 2012, 06:46
I've just started reading Terry Pratchett's Equal Rites...<SNIP>
<SNIP>
Another Pratchett lover here: What you describe above is correct as far as I can remember Equal Rites. I just wanted to add that a sort follow up on what happened to Esk once she was grown up, appeared in 'I Shall Wear Midnight'. This is the latest in the Discworld Young Adult books, and may have been overlooked by some casual Discworld readers.

Anyway, back OnTopic:
I think Claire is quite brave to tell Marten something like this so early in their friendship, and I applaud Marten for his reaction. Now I'll just sit back and watch how the rest of the gang will react.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: idontunderstand on 20 Nov 2012, 07:26
Regarding Claire telling Marten that it's okay to tell other people that she's trans*, I really just think she believes Marten is trustworthy enough to judge who he should or shouldn't tell. I guess Claire doesn't want him to feel weird about carrying around a kind of "secret" that he can't even tell his closest friends, a circle of friends she could potentially be part of. Which is extremely brave of course..
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 20 Nov 2012, 07:31
Marten is probably doing the worst possible thing in this situation. Who knows how Claire's taste buds will react in horror when she tastes Marten's coffee of doom (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1004).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: El_Flesh on 20 Nov 2012, 07:44
'She' told him to be honest. So he should be honest; it's not a secret, but it's not something to blare out to everyone. Simple enough instructions. If Claire didn't want some people to know, Claire should have said nothing to anyone.

I think this is a cool thing to do with a comic. Everyone can be offended. Life is an exercise in often being offended. We learn to act less offensive with education, and that's what this particular storyline will do. I've got to admit, I have alot to learn about trans people, and it's my hope that I'll react much better if I ever meet one thanks to this storyline.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: miados on 20 Nov 2012, 08:33
well it is nice how he revealed claire to be a transgender person in my opinion at least. there are so many ways that could have happened that were bad. the first person like that, that i know is like that, i didn't even feel the hint that she was like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HueItzCoatl on 20 Nov 2012, 08:38
Just finished reading the last comic and I have to say that I didn't see that one coming. I don't think I've ever had the pleasure of knowing a Trans comic character. I'm curious to see how the whole things plays out.

I do have to say that unlike Marten, I would have totally freaked the fuck out and asked her if I could see her junk....then again I'm always up for seeing some junk!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 20 Nov 2012, 08:44
If Claire started transitioning in college, it wasn't something she was hiding, so I tend to think her attitude is to be open about it, if people ask.  And that's what she's told Marten.  Sometimes that stance can lead to problems, but she's a brave one despite her nervous, timid appearance. 

Or maybe she's nervous and timid because she's been open about it...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ChaosWolf on 20 Nov 2012, 08:59
I mean, seriously, the existence of a race of sentient beings that can freely swap between bodies whenever they feel like it has got to be annoying as hell for a struggling transperson in QC-verse.

Good point...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 20 Nov 2012, 09:15
I'll note that the QC verse isn't post-scarcity - there are homeless people in it.

But, QC is set in the US, so free or low-cost non-emergency healthcare of any sort is far from guaranteed (this is a country where people wait until they're about to die to get any treatment for cancer, because they can't afford to pay for any early treatment, and can't afford the time off work to go in for treatment), and the odds of it covering any sort of treatment for gender dysphoria other than counseling are slim.

Granted, QC is also set in Massachusetts, which has had an individual mandate healthcare system for a while, but it may be cheaper to pay the fine (if you're in good health, and sometimes even if you're in poor health, it's cheaper to pay the fine under PPACA, which is the US individual mandate system), and any cheap plan will be highly unlikely to even cover mental health or elective treatment of any sort. The college would likely offer counseling for free, as part of tuition, but that would just be sitting and talking with a therapist, not any medications - a student would be referred to a doctor of some sort for that.

So, I'd guess that Claire's family is financially stable, but QC is set in a society that does experience scarcity. (Further evidence is that Clinton appears to have been an early adopter of a robotic hand, in a universe where robots are very common, but are still luxury items.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Xader on 20 Nov 2012, 09:46
Jeph's starting to toe the line with "fucking this up."

I would never give permission for someone else to talk about my gender status to anyone else. That's just asking for trouble.

Congratulations. It is now positively confirmed that you and Claire are not the same person.

Guess what? Some people are more comfortable sharing personal things than others.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 09:54
Yet another long-time trans* reader lured out of the shadows of the Internet over this comic!

Mostly wanted to say thanks for the refreshingly mature discussions, and the links!

Also I must warn you of a terrible fate that may befall us all!
Jeph sez: "OCD IS BAD: Nitpicking and/or placing way too much importance on minutiae while missing the big picture is probably Jeph's biggest pet peeve. Not every little detail is Fraught With Meaning."  :psyduck:

Welcome, new person! Good work studying the rules, and particularly finding that one. It is under appreciated.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 09:59
English is not my mother language, and I hope that it won't show too badly.

Welcome, new person!

Plenty of ESL people here: it really doesn't matter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 10:07
If the reading I've been doing is representative, do I understand right that Marten's behavior is exemplary?

(And that Claire's answer is brave and not to be taken as representative?)

I just hope he doesn't get drunk and tell Pintsize.


Warning - while you were welcoming a new person two new people have joined the discussion. You may wish to review your post
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 20 Nov 2012, 10:20
I just hope he doesn't get drunk and tell Pintsize.

Considering what (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1997Considering what [url=http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1997) AnthroPc's are capable of (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1999), I don't think one drunken binge will give Pintsize ample opportunity to figure it out. Then again, looking at his Twitter, if he can find obscure porn......

(Added a bracket - Method)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Change on 20 Nov 2012, 12:30
I think some people are misunderstanding what Claire said, unless I'm wrong.

She gave Marten permission to tell people that she's trans* if they ask about it. Therefore, the person asking would of had to have either suspected something or maybe heard it from someone else who knew Claire in college. She told Marten NOT to talk about it otherwise. I really don't think that Marten lying to someone who explicitly asks will help matters, at all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 20 Nov 2012, 12:48
I have no words for how this thread is going.

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/PaulC1984/double-facepalm.gif)






Before this thread goes nuclear, I'm off to that concrete, reinforced underground bunker I had built after the Dora/Marten Meltdown of '10. All necessary invites have been sent out and the last of the tinned food has been brought in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 20 Nov 2012, 12:49
(Sorry, english is not my first language).
Wow....10 pages for one strip  :-o .

 I got to say, i used to like the comic; but now...  i love it! xD

 Seriously, i really like Claire since her first appearance (don't really know why) and that won't change a bit  :-) .

 Now changing the subject:
 - The lips.
 Marigold doesn't have those either most of the time (I thought it was just when the girls used lipstick, but since Hanners wouldn't use...).
 Example1 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2071)
 Cute Example2 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1738) (except last panel).
 
 - This thread.
 I read slowly all the posts, and all i could thinks was that it remind me this xD (no offense):
 (http://i.imgur.com/h9QHe.jpg)


 Seeya.-
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CompSarge on 20 Nov 2012, 13:10
- This thread.
 I read slowly all the posts, and all i could thinks was that it remind me this xD (no offense):
image snip (http://i.imgur.com/h9QHe.jpg)

Pretty much the internet in a nutshell, yeah. At least, this part of the internet. :psyduck: Also, AUGH!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: idontunderstand on 20 Nov 2012, 13:13
It's really not that bad. The first f-word hasn't even been thrown yet.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 20 Nov 2012, 13:14
Marten is probably doing the worst possible thing in this situation. Who knows how Claire's taste buds will react in horror when she tastes Marten's coffee of doom (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1004).
Well spotted. One can only hope he's not the one who prepared it.

Well, there is a debate in France right now about extension of marriage to everybody, including homosexual couples and I must some arguments are quite nauseating. A bishop actually had the gall to say that first, it was gay marriage, and then incest and zoophilia. You can imagine what is being said about trangender people.
I haven't heard much in France about trans* people specifically. There's been a few legal and administrative issues that made it to the news, but I can't say I remember hearing statements about it from the clergy.


About today's comic (as well as yesterday's - took me some time to read all the thread), I think Claire is courageous to speak out like this, and she found the right kind of person to do so. If I were Marten, I'd feel flattered by this manifestation of trust.

Marten has his faults, he's indecisive and sometimes too much of a pushover, but these are pretty much the worst aspects of some of his main qualities: he's non-judgemental and laid-back. It's not really a surprize that Claire decided to trust him in particular.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 20 Nov 2012, 13:20
Before this thread goes nuclear, I'm off to that concrete, reinforced underground bunker I had built after the Dora/Marten Meltdown of '10. All necessary invites have been sent out and the last of the tinned food has been brought in.

See you in half an hour.  I'll bring the beer and jerkey. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Alkahest on 20 Nov 2012, 13:32
I just wanted to say that I think it's nice that QC included a trans character, not get into an argument. There. Bye.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 20 Nov 2012, 14:30
I have no words for how this thread is going.

Before this thread goes nuclear, I'm off to that concrete, reinforced underground bunker I had built after the Dora/Marten Meltdown of '10. All necessary invites have been sent out and the last of the tinned food has been brought in.
I'll bring some cookies!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Nov 2012, 14:31
Before this thread goes nuclear, I'm off to that concrete, reinforced underground bunker I had built after the Dora/Marten Meltdown of '10. All necessary invites have been sent out and the last of the tinned food has been brought in.

See you in half an hour.  I'll bring the beer and jerkey. 
I, for one, will go down with the forum. Forumites...it's been an honor.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leucelia on 20 Nov 2012, 14:46
Not super interested in the other discussions. Just logged in to give feedback on the latest events with Claire.

I like that Jeph seems anxious about portraying a positive trans character. That he is worried at all means he's worried enough to do it well.  I must say, I am impressed! He mentioned that he had done research, and it shows already.

For the comic itself, the reaction Marten gave very much lines up with my own reactions in the area I live. It was always either an affirmation of a prior suspicion, or a simple acknowledgement and moving on. This is how I feel it should be; not bizarre or a mystifying revelation, but another facet of a person that you are privileged to know about. The question following, regarding circumstances for disclosure, is likewise a tremendously important thing to be asked when coming out, particularly in a work environment. I remain cautious for the future, of course, but Jeph has already shown he is being meticulous with this, and I approve!

My biggest fear is an obnoxious question in the future regarding bottom surgery. This is easily the most common question I receive, and the most repellent. Especially in a workplace, inquiring about the possible grueling alterations to ones genitals is appalling, but with trans people it seems to be taken as read that you can just ask away. Let me say now that by NO means is it appropriate, ever, unless the person volunteers that information (sole exception for sexual partners). I almost hope that he does cover this issue, if just to relay that message to the world, though I would assume he'd receive significant punishment for the service (see how much anger Dan Savage receives for this or that nitpick).

In any case, I look forward to the future he carves for Claire and how the other characters interpret and deal with that information. What really blows me away is that these characters all have distinct personalities, and will all have to approach the issue in their own ways. That all of that will have to come from one man for this story makes it especially admirable. I'm particularly interested in the discussion of sexuality that may arise, with Claire having been given to heterosexual tendencies. This may mean that she is bisexual, or was homosexual prior to transitioning. In my experience, sexuality has seemed fairly fluid, so perhaps no label at all is necessary.

Thanks, Jeph, for broaching the subject. The more commonplace the phenomena becomes, the less strange it will seem. Having a good image of trans in media is a huge deal that can directly affect the lives of trans people every day.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Nov 2012, 14:49
There's some very nice drawing of facial expressions and body-language in this comic (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2324) too.

And it's when Marten's being depicted in this relaxed mood that he looks at his best, I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 20 Nov 2012, 15:30
 Can we please discuss the comic/strip/characters in here, and all the subject about trans/laws/MyCountry/etc in Here (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.0.html) for example?

 Just to keep some order...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 20 Nov 2012, 16:09
Before this thread goes nuclear, I'm off to that concrete, reinforced underground bunker I had built after the Dora/Marten Meltdown of '10. All necessary invites have been sent out and the last of the tinned food has been brought in.

See you in half an hour.  I'll bring the beer and jerkey.

Don't mind me, I'll be the idiot who's going to be rebuilding a new thread to replace this one.  :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:


Ooh, and good idea, K1dmor.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 20 Nov 2012, 16:20
As for trans* people and trans* as a concept as discussed in this forum, I hope to learn by shutting up.
As for the comic -- I'd ask everyone to consider something they might not have considered: It's a story about imperfect people who are trying in the main to get along. Jeph has so far depicted one of the best possible interactions: Claire decided to trust Marten and that trust has been rewarded with non-uptight acceptance and respect. But I think (and I'm going to guess, because Jeph is nothing if not meticulous in his choice of presentation) that we might see, down the line, one of the characters screwing this up; they, being mostly realistic characters, don't always hit the right notes.
It will be interesting to see if Jeph heads in this direction and what it will mean for the characters affected by a screwup -- and if he does this, I'd ask folks to hang on and see where the story goes before jumping on it for presenting the situation as less than ideal across the board. Some of the most lasting impressions (and lessons) come from watching people deal with the consequences of a mistake -- a character's mistake, in this case, being a less-than-respectful reaction to learning Claire's story.

tl;dr: This is a story about people, not a primer for navigating social situations.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leucelia on 20 Nov 2012, 16:36
I agree, DSL. Seeing an imperfect response and the subsequent handling of the matter and lessons involved would probably be more useful. If not that, then the emotional aftermath inflicted. (Marten after being an asshole to Padma).

Proud of Jeph for sticking his neck out like this. He's going to get a lot of hate mail.

EDIT: Whoops! Only glanced at the name and saw Duck beneath it, DSL.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 20 Nov 2012, 17:00
Duck? ... Oh, I get it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tiercel on 20 Nov 2012, 17:09
Man, I'm just as happy that the revelation is being handled so well so far in-comic.

I mean, here we are having two characters having a calm, rational conversation about acceptance, and the forums seem to have reacted like someone is repeatedly kicking a small puppy broadcast live across Youtube and Facebook.

Can you imagine if the in-comic conversation were being handled more awkwardly or with less understanding?  The forums would be shut down, not because of moderation but because emergency responders would still be picking their way into the smoking crater left by what happened to the server hosting these forums.

I just like that Marten's personality is being shown to be a good thing here, both for Marten and for Claire.  I like that we don't HAVE to always see Marten take a pratfall for comedic and/or dramatic value.  It's good to see that while Marten may often be too passive for his OWN good, that he often has a positive effect on those around him.  (And when he does, that contributes to his own good, because he genuinely is happy when his friends are happy.)

Seriously, this is warm fuzzy territory.  Lighten up, forum peoples  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 20 Nov 2012, 17:14
Maybe I'm exposed to some rather bad places, and I know I'm new so I don't have the same perspectives, but I admit I'm hard-pressed to why there's as many people as there are (mind you a minority) implying or indicating this thread is a flaming warzone, unless I'm missing something here. It's been rather civil I thought. More civil than a lot of internet and meatspace discussions (or 'discussions' sometimes) I've been in and seen.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 20 Nov 2012, 17:17
Don't worry. This forum survived the tidal wave of hate aimed towards Dora during the break-up and the pool ripple of Dora going out with Jim and the dropper of water of Tai asking out Dora. It'll survive this.

Apparently, whatever will destroy the forum will need some sort of kaijin-Dora. Queen Gi-Dora?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: miados on 20 Nov 2012, 17:20
even though i hope it isnt the case is it weird i am trying to figure out who is most likely to freak? als kudos to claire for telling. i am not a trans but more than once and even sometimes now i ponder if i was the wrong gender at birth. heck i know how hard just the thoughts can be much less the real thing of being one so way to go claire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 20 Nov 2012, 17:22
In before they build a Mecha-Dora to fight Queen Gi-Dora, but Pintsize manages to upload into it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mothykins on 20 Nov 2012, 17:23
Don't worry. This forum survived the tidal wave of hate aimed towards Dora during the break-up and the pool ripple of Dora going out with Jim and the dropper of water of Tai asking out Dora. It'll survive this.

Apparently, whatever will destroy the forum will need some sort of kaijin-Dora. Queen Gi-Dora?

Wait, the Tai/Dora explosion was a water drop? I'm kind of glad I've only been on the forums fairly recently o_o;;
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 20 Nov 2012, 17:30
Warning - while you were reading 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Holy cow - there's nothing to review yet.

Maybe I'm exposed to some rather bad places, and I know I'm new so I don't have the same perspectives, but I admit I'm hard-pressed to why there's as many people as there are (mind you a minority) implying or indicating this thread is a flaming warzone, unless I'm missing something here. It's been rather civil I thought. More civil than a lot of internet and meatspace discussions (or 'discussions' sometimes) I've been in and seen.

I think it's been by-and-large civil, as well. I suspect that a few people read the first couple of pages (which did get a bit tense), looked down at the total number of pages, and just assumed the worst.

Since then, there's been a few disagreements which have been dealt with fairly promptly before the thread simply moved on.

Maybe fast-moving threads are good for stopping disagreements from festering.

Back to the comic: I've known a couple of people who simply seem to engender trust, allowing people to naturally open up to them. Marten seems to be one of those types. His relaxed nature does help.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 20 Nov 2012, 17:31
The thread has actually been remarkably civil, given the amount of traffic.

You just need to look at the break-up arc to see true flamewars, shipwars, and fans of characters fighting each other.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 20 Nov 2012, 17:37
Don't worry. This forum survived the tidal wave of hate aimed towards Dora during the break-up and the pool ripple of Dora going out with Jim and the dropper of water of Tai asking out Dora. It'll survive this.

Apparently, whatever will destroy the forum will need some sort of kaijin-Dora. Queen Gi-Dora?

Wait, the Tai/Dora explosion was a water drop? I'm kind of glad I've only been on the forums fairly recently o_o;;

Yes. Yes you are. As a veteran of The Breakup, the Tai/Dora shenanigans didn't even register as outside of normal background variation.

Honestly though, I'm kind of curious to see what the reaction woud be, now that the forum population and fan base are rather larger, to something along the lines of The Talk happening again. That or Penelope actually being Pizza Girl.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 17:51
Apparently, on this forum it's deemed acceptable to unleash frothing, self-righteous holy fury on people (and their countries) for daring to suggest that trans people should be treated just like everyone else.
(moderator)
It is not.
(/moderator)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 20 Nov 2012, 18:00
Now here is the plot twist:  ALL of the interns are Trans.    Together they are...   8-)  The X-Men.    *CSI SCREAM*


...


...

That's right I just WON THE THREAD.  *nod*   Move along now,  nothing more to post here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 20 Nov 2012, 18:06
I'd have been willing to declare Thread won, but you can't just claim it yourself, MillionLebron Belt Sander.

...c-can you?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 20 Nov 2012, 18:22
I'd have been willing to declare Thread won, but you can't just claim it yourself, MillionLebron Belt Sander.

...c-can you?

Can.  And did.      8-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 20 Nov 2012, 18:32
Dude's got a belt sander and he's not afraid to use it. Chuck Norris makes MillionDollar Belt Sander jokes -- but never to his face. Wookiees let him win. Give him the thread, people.

Despite that note of advance-caution I sounded a page or so ago, I do agree the thread's been remarkably civil, with only the rare bump here and there from a new poster (welcome, new persons!) discovering someone else didn't agree fully enough with said poster.

It's been worse, I can attest to that, as can anyone who goes back and reads the threads associated with the Great Breakup Bustup of 2010, also referred to as Dorageddon or the Dorapocalypse. I've also helped manage a small-town newspaper's anonymous comment section; talk about something that destroys your faith in humanity.

Oh, and be sure to play the caption game.



Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Redball on 20 Nov 2012, 18:44
I've also helped manage a small-town newspaper's anonymous comment section; talk about something that destroys your faith in humanity.
I did that 15-20 years ago, but I moderated it, posting an Ed Note: to challenge the obviously wrong-headed, and often with a quip or a pun. I was the second to do this, and under the first guy, Ed Note became a personality whose real identity was the subject of a lot of community guessing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PHDrillSergeant on 20 Nov 2012, 18:44
To those people going through the comics looking for signs of her being a cis male: stop it. It's really not cool.

I know, I know, "but she's only a character!". How you are reacting reflects on how many, many people react to trans* people IRL. And it's embarrassing and infuriating.

Especially to the person who went "Boom: Adams Apple". Stop that shit. Seriously.

That was me. And I don't think you've got the right idea here, telling people to "stop that shit". It's rude.

See? All it takes is one person saying something innocently, pointing out foreshadowing the author may have done to an interesting plot development, and someone gets offended. I thought it was interesting, and I'd like to think Jaques had this planned beforehand. I think it's great. There's no offense meant there, and if you see any offense meant, then you are clearly looking for someone to be a badguy.

Maybe you should consider taking a break, going outside, hanging out with friends, etc. Because the last thing this thread needs is someone telling others whether they can or cannot enjoy the comic in a way they wish to.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 20 Nov 2012, 18:47
Yeah. Like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 20 Nov 2012, 18:51
I've already got Wednesday's comic scripted:

Claire:  Good Morning.
Hannelore:  How's it hangin'?
Claire:  (Runs off to cry) Damn it, Marten!


Maybe that line would work with Emily.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emperor Norton on 20 Nov 2012, 18:58
Maybe I'm exposed to some rather bad places, and I know I'm new so I don't have the same perspectives, but I admit I'm hard-pressed to why there's as many people as there are (mind you a minority) implying or indicating this thread is a flaming warzone, unless I'm missing something here. It's been rather civil I thought. More civil than a lot of internet and meatspace discussions (or 'discussions' sometimes) I've been in and seen.

Honestly, I've found the claims that the thread is a warzone and that people should be ashamed of the way they are acting to be the most offensive thing in the thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 20 Nov 2012, 19:03
Two things:

1. This is nothing compared to what the Dorapocalypse was two years ago. This stuff is downright civil compared to that.

2. M$BS can't "win" this thread, because I'd have to LET him win it, as the OP&P (Original Poster and Pollster).

That being said - M$BS? Win.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 20 Nov 2012, 19:07
... I'd like to think Jaques had this planned beforehand.

 Indeed.
 (http://i.imgur.com/1rMkN.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 20 Nov 2012, 19:21
2. M$BS can't "win" this thread, because I'd have to LET him win it, as the OP&P (Original Poster and Pollster).

That being said - M$BS? Win.

I declared myself winner.   The only way to reverse that is for me to declare myself NOT. WINNER.

And I'm not doing that.     

Belt Sander -- 1  Everyone else -- 0  8-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 20 Nov 2012, 19:24
What if someone pulled the plug from the belt sander and took away the rechargable battery?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 20 Nov 2012, 19:25
... I'd like to think Jaques had this planned beforehand.

 Indeed.
 (http://i.imgur.com/1rMkN.jpg)

I dunno... I'm thinking it was a spur of the moment kind of thing
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Nov 2012, 19:27
Re: MDBS and his claim that only he can revoke his win...I've never been more tempted to edit someone's post and put I AM NOT THE WINNER.  (Or, you know, the old classic DTISC)  ::)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 20 Nov 2012, 19:32
What if someone pulled the plug from the belt sander and took away the rechargable battery?

He switches in the gas engine. If that goes out, there's a drive belt all ready to hook up to the flywheel of a steam thresher. I've heard rumors of a mastodon on a treadmill.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 20 Nov 2012, 19:33
<unnecessary quote removed by moderator>

Then the mastodon should probably be replaced before use... Probably all mouldy and dead right now....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: henri bemis on 20 Nov 2012, 19:46
Who needs a belt sander if you've got a freakin' mastodon?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: fugue2005 on 20 Nov 2012, 19:50
Interesting. 


Marten wins with the non-reaction.  Just what Claire needed, I'm sure.

here's my take on that, it would surprise me if anyone in that circle of friends (other than pintsize) had anything snarky to say to her.

I mean think about it, Claire could not have scoured the world and found a better person to open up to about this.
FFS Marten has a momDom, a Dom so well known that his GF knew of her before she knew she was marten's mom.
MArten has friends of seemingly ever race, color and creed. he has friends that have had and still have some serious psychological issues, and even is openly accepting of those less biological than the rest. That boy was born and raised to be open minded.

It would have suprised me if marten's reaction to her statement was anything but "meh"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 19:58
Welcome, new person!

That's a good insight about Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 20 Nov 2012, 20:00
What if someone pulled the plug from the belt sander and took away the rechargable battery?

He switches in the gas engine. If that goes out, there's a drive belt all ready to hook up to the flywheel of a steam thresher. I've heard rumors of a mastodon on a treadmill.

If the mastodon fails I have a small nuclear device good for 200 years of maximum power.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 20:40
Warning: while you were greeting two new people four new people joined the discussion. You may wish to review the notion of exponential growth

Language does matter, though, if used to guide thought and not as a trap for the unwary.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 20 Nov 2012, 21:17
Popcorn anyone?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cam94509 on 20 Nov 2012, 21:24
For some reason, I was not surprised at this new turn.

I mean, let's see, my experiences have been a bit sour, but even if I became supreme leader of x-land and throw everyone out, I have no problem with Trans-persons, so long, as most will agree, they are nice to me. No "Scum" stuff, no "privilege" or any of that PC-whining stuff, and I can't see much going wrong.

Likewise, this [this storyline] is going to get interesting. Who knows how the other characters react, if this spreads.

Though that might turn to Cerebus Syndrome, and eh....

I'm a little puzzled. What is your objection to "privilege"? As a concept, I'd think that it (although not necessarily the ways one treats it) is... well, kinda obviously a thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 20 Nov 2012, 21:48
 I have an idea about what would happen in a (remote) future (if i get it right, then sorry for the spoiler ^^U ):

(click to show/hide)

 Seriously, read at your own risk.

 Seeya.-
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 22:11
Your hopes stand a good chance of being realized. Jeph's characters tend to grow beyond caricature. It's part of why people get so passionate about the comic: they feel the personalities of the characters and recognize them from their own lives.

Welcome, cam94509. Some people perceive mentions of privilege as an attempt to manipulate them into feeling guilty, rather than as an observation and analysis of social dynamics. But that discussion doesn't have much to do with the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 20 Nov 2012, 22:15
K1d: I would hope it ends up less boilerplate than that, since there are so many larger issues you can work with...

 Yeah, i know. When i said future i mean like, 50 strips after now  :angel: It's just something that i thought could happen in X situation.
 The issues/subject can be treated before and after that (not that i say it would happen, just pure speculation)  :-) .

 Edit: Jeph's gonna fire up the livestream in a little while ^^ I can't wait to see what's next   :-) .
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: danuis on 20 Nov 2012, 22:24

There are so many ways this can go...I can say I'm quite excited to see where it will go.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 22:31
<quoting reduced by moderator>

 Edit: Jeph's gonna fire up the livestream in a little while ^^ I can't wait to see what's next   :-) .

Me too!

Jeph is usually more unpredictable than that, but there will almost certainly be some form of screwup.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leucelia on 20 Nov 2012, 22:35
Ah, well, then it just sounds like an insecure person not picking their battles like they should. That always sucks.

Man, wouldn't THAT be the dream, though? The New Bill Of Rights, with protections for all for leases, employment, education, housing, marriage..that's the damned dream right there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2012, 23:00
I wonder how far the QC world has moved in that direction? Henry and Maurice can legally get married there. There's legal equality for AIs, though that was a long struggle only recently won. On the other hand, a landlord has gotten away with asking a prospective tenant about her religion.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tormuse on 20 Nov 2012, 23:12
Well, in the spirit of over-analyzing, I'd like to consider how each character would react to the news if they end up hearing about it.  :)  (in no particular order)

I imagine that Dora and Tai would react similarly to Marten, seeing that they're already part of the LGBT spectrum.  ;)

Hannelore would also be okay with it and have a surprising amount of knowledge about it, considering her compulsion for researching things.

Marigold would not know what to say and be too shy to make any comment about it.

I don't think we really know enough about Gabby to predict her response.

Clinton already knows.  (duh!)

I can see Angus having well-intentioned, but nevertheless inappropriate things to say about it.

Faye would be her usually snarky self and say *really* inappropriate things about it.

I can picture Steve and Cosette having misunderstandings and misconceptions about it and needing to be educated.

Emily would ask some very intrusive questions, similar to the kind she asked Momo.

Comments?  (Did I forget anybody?)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 20 Nov 2012, 23:13
Now here is the plot twist:  ALL of the interns are Trans.   

Your idea might have merit. Then again, do I really want to dwell into Kathoeys?

Quote
Warning - while you were typing 13 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Wait, what? Is this some sorta glitch?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 20 Nov 2012, 23:28
I wonder how far the QC world has moved in that direction? Henry and Maurice can legally get married there. There's legal equality for AIs, though that was a long struggle only recently won. On the other hand, a landlord has gotten away with asking a prospective tenant about her religion.

Henry and Maurice can get married in the real Massachusetts. ...and 8 other states. and the District of Columbia.

It's amazing how far things have come in the last few years. (doesn't mean there isn't still a long way to go.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 20 Nov 2012, 23:32
I don't think we really know enough about Gabby to predict her response.
"
 Gabby: I knew it already.
 Claire: wh-- , how?
 Gabby: I have a brain under all this fuzzy hair, you know?
 " (?)

 Clinton is gonna appear in the next strip btw.

 
[not going to read 13 pages]
Ey, if i did it ... :-D

 
Sooo, a thought just occurred to me. What if the reason Clinton thinks Claire is "weird" and stuff is because he's freaked out by her trans status and is not supportive about her transition? That would be sad =(.
I don't think so.
 I mean, he could get angry or something when she started the treatment (unless Claire told him how she felt before), but know i think they just act like brother and sister; you know, the rivalry, don't wanna be in the same groups of friends, etc.
 She said already he is a good brother, maybe his actitude it's just part of his personality. Claire really loves her brother, and (not matter what Clinton say) he loves her too  :angel:

 ...too much?

 EDIT: Next strip
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 20 Nov 2012, 23:40
Apropos of nothing at all: this made me laugh.

"tumblr, why do you have so much angries? let go of your angries and just look at some nice art and cute animals. no more angries, you guys."

https://twitter.com/empartridge/status/271145921406984192
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 21 Nov 2012, 00:21
 ...Told you.

 Maybe he's a jerk.....but the overprotective type :-) .
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Wagimawr on 21 Nov 2012, 00:25
Claire's look in the last panel says it all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TRVA123 on 21 Nov 2012, 00:34
This entire week Claire has been so adorable! I just want to give her a hug.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Wagimawr on 21 Nov 2012, 00:35
Have to ask first.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TRVA123 on 21 Nov 2012, 00:37
I think I'd also have to meet her first.

I also want to shake Marten's hand and then play a board game with all of them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 21 Nov 2012, 00:38
Despite his comment. Doesn't change the fact that he does seem like a good brother. :)

1. This is nothing compared to what the Dorapocalypse was two years ago. This stuff is downright civil compared to that.
This forum survived the tidal wave of hate aimed towards Dora during the break-up and the pool ripple of Dora going out with Jim and the dropper of water of Tai asking out Dora. It'll survive this.

Meh... It wasn't that bad. I'll just say that since I've got here (July 2009) this forum has ALWAYS been civil to me. I guess I'm just more used/experienced with REAL internet warzones.
Not a single bleep on the radar since I got here. Maybe just a mild chilly wind but nothing else. :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 21 Nov 2012, 00:40
Ouch.

Its Wednesday morning and the thread already hit 13 pages ?!?

There is no way I'm going to read through this whole thread.

Quote
Warning - while you were reading 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. 
Oh gimme a break.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 21 Nov 2012, 00:49
The Dora/Marten breakup thread reached 36 pages before it was locked; this is merely busy.  It is, however, a more sensitive (and sometimes fraught) discussion, because it is about real things, not just the comic characters.  (On reflection, there are probably already more words in this thread than in the breakup one.)

Someone earlier remarked about forum meltdown: won't happen.  QC is a big webcomic, and its server has resources to cope.  The forum shares that server, and I suspect uses only a small part of its resources. (Just don't let us get slash-dotted!)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: St.Clair on 21 Nov 2012, 00:55
Oh, Clinton.  Every time you do or show something that might result in some amount of sympathy...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JackSpades64 on 21 Nov 2012, 01:04
Well, in the spirit of over-analyzing, I'd like to consider how each character would react to the news if they end up hearing about it.  :) 

<quoting reduced by moderator>

Comments?  (Did I forget anybody?)

Dear God, Pintsize...
In all seriousness, Marten will probably have to let pintsize know and persuade him not to say ANYTHING. If he does not do so, and he finds out, then we can pretty much guess that he will blurt out something completely horrible. He could quite easily find out too. Lets say, for example, Faye finds out because Claire tells her. Faye is drunk enough to see those hallucinations, and blurts it out when Pintsize is around...

Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 21 Nov 2012, 01:21
I doubt Jeph would bother to go there; there are so many more useful ways for him to explore this character's relationships.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 21 Nov 2012, 01:26
For the record, panel 3 kind of annoys me.

You really cant snatch a cup of coffee like that without spilling the liquid all over the place.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cam94509 on 21 Nov 2012, 01:28
For the record, panel 3 kind of annoys me.

You really cant snatch a cup of coffee like that without spilling the liquid all over the place.

To be fair, there does appear to be liquid spilling out of the cup in panel 3.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 21 Nov 2012, 01:34
Well, in the spirit of over-analyzing, I'd like to consider how each character would react to the news if they end up hearing about it.  :) 

Hannelore would also be okay with it and have a surprising amount of knowledge about it, considering her compulsion for researching things.

<quoting reduced by moderator>


i expect hannelore would be very understanding and sympathetic about the psychological issues, but being a little squicked by the whole 'transition' thing. which would then cause her to have a guilt-induced panic attack & send her into an insomniatic online research binge on the topic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: 0kamisama on 21 Nov 2012, 01:44
It's really not that bad. The first f-word hasn't even been thrown yet.

Flapjacks.

That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 21 Nov 2012, 01:53
Good one little brother! I doesn't matter how you get on with your sibling, you don't let outsiders put shit on them. I wonder if Clinton has had previous occasion to let people talk to the hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: VonKleist on 21 Nov 2012, 01:55
Now I want to know what Clinton's deal is with Martennnn :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 21 Nov 2012, 01:57
I think it goes back to when he had to be evacuated (with extreme prejudice) from the apartment when he first met Hannelore. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1902)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: VonKleist on 21 Nov 2012, 02:09
Yeees, but I like to think he´d come to see how he had it coming for being obsessive and creepy.
So why no likey Marten?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: StevenC on 21 Nov 2012, 02:14
I think it's just a joke on the ol' "brother protecting sister" schtick.

BTW, the thread now has 14 pages and counting, who won you guys' bet from Monday?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 21 Nov 2012, 02:35
I doubt Clinton did realise how creepy he was being - to be honest, with anyone other than Hanners the creepy level would not have been quite as high. I'd be a bit disgruntled at being hustled out of a room by a guy wielding a sword for something I didn't see as being a huge problem.

Also, maybe Clinton is just super-defensive around people he sees as popular. I get the vibe that he's not had an easy time of it (bullied probably, considered weird certainly - he has a robot hand and red hair) and it's not out of character for people to be overly aggressive as a defense mechanism long after it has become unnecessary.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Nov 2012, 02:42
(Just don't let us get slash-dotted!)

I'm pretty sure the Slashdot effect is massively diluted nowadays, given how Slashdot has slid into mediocrity and many have left.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rockman on 21 Nov 2012, 04:15
I hadn't actually given any thought to Clinton becoming an important character back when he was introduced, but I'm certainly glad he is:  finding out more about Claire helps me understand Clinton better, too.  They're an interesting pair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: VonKleist on 21 Nov 2012, 04:22
Also, maybe Clinton is just super-defensive around people he sees as popular. I get the vibe that he's not had an easy time of it (bullied probably, considered weird certainly - he has a robot hand and red hair) and it's not out of character for people to be overly aggressive as a defense mechanism long after it has become unnecessary.

It makes sense. Maybe he´s also jealous of Marten because he is close with Hanners and all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LordVaughn on 21 Nov 2012, 04:34
Just goes to show, no matter how much most siblings fight, they do care about one another.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Skewbrow on 21 Nov 2012, 04:45
Here's some potential for Clinton to learn something, and may be become closer to the rest of the gang.

If only he realizes that Marten (and Faye), during their first encounters, were protective of Hanners much the same way that he is protective of Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 21 Nov 2012, 05:00
Has anyone let Evildog know he can leave the bunker yet?  We hadn't had an opportunity to hook up the plumbing yet, and I think the "facilities" might be getting a bit ripe at this point.

And while Clinton went up a few notches for his rising to the defence of his sister, he still needs a few lessons in social skills to be let into society on a regular basis - and needs to forget about being hydrodynamic...

Marten's posture in the last frame is adorable - there is no other way to describe it - he's almost mad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsuner on 21 Nov 2012, 06:04
There's one thing that's been on my mind with this storyline...

If Claire had fallen off the dock a few strips ago, would that have made her a trans-ponder?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 21 Nov 2012, 06:17
All I can say about the currenrt plotline is...


...BRING BACK SVEN!  I was just looking at the strips of Dora moving into her current apartment, and realised I'd like to see him again.

Well, actually after deciding to say that I got to thinking how he might react.  It would be ironic if Mr Ladies Man turned out to be more comfortable with Claire revealing herself than Dora is initially.   (If Dora has any sort of a problematic reaction to Claire I can't see it lasting long.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 21 Nov 2012, 06:47
I'm with May on this one - Claire refers to herself as "her", and therefore that pronoun is correct - for her.

And ohmyGOD would a Sven meets Claire storyline be FUN-NYYYYYYY!

"I don't get it, I gave her 'The Look' and - Nothing!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 07:21
Has anyone let Evildog know he can leave the bunker yet?  We hadn't had an opportunity to hook up the plumbing yet, and I think the "facilities" might be getting a bit ripe at this point.

Hey, the water was the second thing I had connected after construction.
Also...I haven't finished the tinned peaches. Go away.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ph2 on 21 Nov 2012, 07:40
Claire's dissaproving look is quite amazing, and nice to see Clinton being the "good brother" Claire said he was. It did feel as if he was a bit empty as a character.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 08:23
Just to make it abundantly clear.

It is never.

Under any circumstances.

Ever.

Appropriate to refer.

To a human being as

It.

Yes. Thank you.
Now I'm going back to the reinforced bunker.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rockman on 21 Nov 2012, 08:23
I am eagerly awaiting the Thanksgiving strip (TURKEY TIME!) for two reasons:

1. It is always hilarious.
2. It may prove distracting to the direction of this thread, which at first I found very enlightening and now... well... let's just say that bunker party's sounding pretty awesome right now, tinned peaches or no.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackjoker on 21 Nov 2012, 08:24
On a topic related to the comic and less to the current posting, why does Clinton seem to hate Marten so much?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 08:26
On a topic related to the comic and less to the current posting, why does Clinton seem to hate Marten so much?

My guess? Probably because Marten threatened him with a sword when Clinton was perving over Hanners.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: indigo on 21 Nov 2012, 08:26
...And this is why I am filled with dread at the progression of the current story arc.

Because Jeph will certainly treat the subject matter with care and respect, but no matter what he does, no matter how he proceeds, he cannot win.  If everyone in the cast is fully accepting of Claire as she is, for who she is, Jeph will be derided for displaying an inaccurate representation of the realities trans people face.  If, say, Emily, behaves as Emily does, as is characteristic for her, with an innocent lack of tact and sensitivity, Jeph will be condemned for somehow endorsing such tactlessness and insensitivity.  If Claire displays any sort of personal preference that does not completely align with the "acceptable" trans experience (as has already happened, by her saying that it was okay for Marten to answer honestly if someone asked) then Jeph will receive even more abuse, as if each and every trans person must be exactly the same.

And every flame, every complaint, every bit of condemnation, will begin with or include the word "cis".

This makes me incredibly, incredibly sad.  For Jeph, and for everyone else.

And that is all I have to say.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 21 Nov 2012, 08:28
Yes. Thank you.
Now I'm going back to the reinforced bunker.

Can I get in there with you. I promise I'll leave my Dick-broom outside.

I think I broke it anyway. No matter, it was useless to begin with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Chelicerate on 21 Nov 2012, 08:31
...And this is why I am filled with dread at the progression of the current story arc.

Because Jeph will certainly treat the subject matter with care and respect, but no matter what he does, no matter how he proceeds, he cannot win.  If everyone in the cast is fully accepting of Claire as she is, for who she is, Jeph will be derided for displaying an inaccurate representation of the realities trans people face.  If, say, Emily, behaves as Emily does, as is characteristic for her, with an innocent lack of tact and sensitivity, Jeph will be condemned for somehow endorsing such tactlessness and insensitivity.  If Claire displays any sort of personal preference that does not completely align with the "acceptable" trans experience (as has already happened, by her saying that it was okay for Marten to answer honestly if someone asked) then Jeph will receive even more abuse, as if each and every trans person must be exactly the same.

And every flame, every complaint, every bit of condemnation, will begin with or include the word "cis".

This makes me incredibly, incredibly sad.  For Jeph, and for everyone else.

And that is all I have to say.

He's gotten overwhelming amounts of support from the trans* community i've seen. Including myself. My comments earlier in the thread were directed at specific users, not jeph. He's handling this well. read his twitter, he's positively glowing with the response he's gotten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 08:32
Yes. Thank you.
Now I'm going back to the reinforced bunker.

Can I get in there with you. I promise I'll leave my Dick-broom outside.

I think I broke it anyway. No matter, it was useless to begin with.

You were already on the preapproved list.
You can't have any tinned peaches though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 21 Nov 2012, 08:34
I know this citizenship thing is definitely not the same thing we are currently discussing but yeah... I've been living in Sweden for 7,5 years now. Got my citizenship 2 years ago, got a swedish pass, speak the language and feel integrated... If someone comes and tell me that I will never be swedish. I will get seriously mad.
Du är nu och för alltid svensk, min broder! BORK BORK BORK

Or in QC-slang:

BROS BROS BROS!!!  :lol:

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lko6dqDJ3P1qznsy4.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rockman on 21 Nov 2012, 08:35
On a topic related to the comic and less to the current posting, why does Clinton seem to hate Marten so much?

I think it was touched on a couple pages ago maybe?  Anyway Marten kicked Clinton out of his apartment the first time he met Hanners, daughter of his beloved idol Hannerdad.  I think someone brought up jealousy of his and Hanner's closeness, too.  Throw that on top of his natural protectiveness and you get "oh i guess you're not ALL bad then"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: legion on 21 Nov 2012, 08:40
Am i only one that wants too see Clair suffer? I mean, i enjoy reading/watching tragedy
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Nov 2012, 08:46
Am i only one that wants too see Clair suffer? I mean, i enjoy reading/watching tragedy
I don't want to see anyone in the comic suffer, but it would be interesting to see how Jeph would handle a character being offensive to Claire. (I suspect that Jeph is actually setting things up for this (possibly in Friday or Monday's strip, even), with the interaction between Clinton and Marten in today's strip.)

I don't think Jeph would go for outright abusive, the tone of QC is too light for that except in very exceptional circumstances (think The Talk, that's the darkest that QC's really gotten, and that's the most exceptional circumstance in the comic as far as going dark).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: percivaltercy on 21 Nov 2012, 08:56
Language is strange, alright.
You're so right, sir. Ma'am. You. Whatever. :-)

By the way... Gotta love Claire's facial expression in the last panel. It says much, and still leaves much to interpretation as to how much she approves of her brother's reaction. I would not be surprised that she is kind of proud of him, even though he is still showing some contempt for Marten...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ink slinger on 21 Nov 2012, 09:03
The fact that Clinton apparently harbours some hatred and/or resentment toward Marten (possibly for Hanners-related reasons, as previously stated in this thread) is very amusing to me, though I'm not entirely sure why.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Nov 2012, 09:07
For some reason, I'm reminded of something that Jeph said...

Quote from: jeph
For future reference, if you're trying to divine some overarching moral standpoint from my comic: the moral of my comic is that people should try to be nice to each other.

Also, ink slinger, somewhere there's an option to disable those warnings if they're getting too annoying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: percivaltercy on 21 Nov 2012, 09:12
The fact that Clinton apparently harbours some hatred and/or resentment toward Marten (possibly for Hanners-related reasons, as previously stated in this thread) is very amusing to me, though I'm not entirely sure why.

He might be a bit sore about this...http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1909 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1909)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ecstaticjoy on 21 Nov 2012, 09:17
Yes. Thank you.
Now I'm going back to the reinforced bunker.

Can I get in there with you. I promise I'll leave my Dick-broom outside.

I think I broke it anyway. No matter, it was useless to begin with.

You were already on the preapproved list.
You can't have any tinned peaches though.


LOL, can I come too!?! I have whiskey!

Thirdly, it's growing use in conjunction with trans in regards to gender is fulfilling a purpose in un-othering trans*people. Think of it in this context, which are less potentially insulting in the following: Are you gay or normal vs are you gay or hetero; are you trans or normal vs are you trans or cis. There needs to be some terminology other than normal vs 'deviant' or 'other' and all the inherent problems therein, and cis is actually appropriate for this purpose.

I'd just like to point out that "normal" is a quite valid word to use, based solely on statistics. There's something similar with regard to autism spectrum disorders—it's PC to refer to non-autistic people as "neurotypical." Looking clinically at a population sample, "normal" and "typical" should mean the same thing. The fact that people behave as if they don't is an effect of context and mental associations.

The problem, then, is that people logically associate "normal" with its antonym "abnormal" (so far so good), and then associate "abnormal" with "bad" (major issues here). Language is strange.

nerds! hahaha, that I love. <3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Hypster on 21 Nov 2012, 09:19
The fact that Clinton apparently harbours some hatred and/or resentment toward Marten (possibly for Hanners-related reasons, as previously stated in this thread) is very amusing to me, though I'm not entirely sure why.
I can't think of anyone in the comic who doesn't like Marten. I think it'd be neat to have someone who would rather not be around him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rockman on 21 Nov 2012, 09:24
I can't think of anyone in the comic who doesn't like Marten. I think it'd be neat to have someone who would rather not be around him.

I always thought Penelope didn't much care for Marten.  But then you could probably read that from her interactions with several other characters who aren't Wil, so maybe she's just a little ornery in general.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 09:32
I can't think of anyone in the comic who doesn't like Marten. I think it'd be neat to have someone who would rather not be around him.

I always thought Penelope didn't much care for Marten.  But then you could probably read that from her interactions with several other characters who aren't Wil, so maybe she's just a little ornery in general.  :-D

To be honest, I don't think Penelope and Marten have really had that much contact. They have friends (or in Penelope's case, work colleagues) in common, but if Marten went to the coffee shop, then more than likely Faye, Dora or Hanners would serve him, because they're his friends. Penelope might have gone to the apartment, but that would be more like work friends or friends of friends and not really talking to the people you aren't really familiar with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: IDMG on 21 Nov 2012, 09:32
Clinton, you're good people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 21 Nov 2012, 09:59
Quote from: Akima
talk to the hand

Wonderful!

Clinton's reaction may have nothing to do with Marten in particular. It's consistent with a life experience of Claire usually getting hostile reactions. He may just expect the worst of anyone who finds out. This could even be subtle artistry where Jeph is communicating the life experience of trans people encountering  hostility without changing his lighthearted tone by showing hostility on screen.

Claire has a supportive family!

I have some thoughts about the meaning of whether someone is "really" "male" or "female" which will go in Discuss, where they belong.

(moderator)
Indigo's experiences are as real as sunrise but since my reading says that "cis" was developed deliberately as a neutral term and it's apparently not being used as an insult in our space, it will be treated as OK.
(/moderator)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rainforce on 21 Nov 2012, 10:09
Sixteen pages.
Sixteen god damn pages.
I read them all.
I must say I haven't expected the whole discussion to last this long, but I guess it's a good thing that all the lurkers including me crawled out from under our rocks and posted mostly useful/noteworthy stuff.
This is pretty much the most "mature" forum I've ever been to. yay : D


Also regarding todays comic, I didn't know Clinton thought that bad of marten. Real surprise there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ink slinger on 21 Nov 2012, 11:16
The fact that Clinton apparently harbours some hatred and/or resentment toward Marten (possibly for Hanners-related reasons, as previously stated in this thread) is very amusing to me, though I'm not entirely sure why.

He might be a bit sore about this...http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1909 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1909)

Yeah, I got that. I meant that I'm not sure why the idea of Clinton disliking Marten amuses me as much as it does.

Also, ink slinger, somewhere there's an option to disable those warnings if they're getting too annoying.

I think maybe you're thinking I said something that I didn't. I don't recall complaining about warnings (and just checked my last few posts to make sure I'm not losing it).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Astroasis on 21 Nov 2012, 11:52
Whew! I'm just relieved that Jeph's FIRMLY putting the whole "sibling rivalry" / "trans-issues" theory to rest. I saw a bunch of people saying, "Oh, this explains this comment" or "Oh, this explains the tension between them" And I... wasn't seeing it. Their relationship seemed like a completely healthy sibling love/hate thing... and the fact that it came across SO normally kind of hinted that Clinton is A-OK with Claire's gender status. I read absolutely no hostility, discomfort or anything of the kind in their interactions - aside from the usual stuff you see in any close siblings.

And I'll say it again, just for good measure - THEY'RE NOT TWINS XD This cannot be said enough.

For what it's worth, I think the only "normal" thing in the world is abnormality. We all have something, somewhere in our psyches or physiques that is... different. We all rage at the world. We all rage at each other. Really, we're all flawed, imperfect creatures and none of us is more imperfect or less normal than any of the rest of us. We all have our... things. Some are external. Some are internal. But we all feel them, in our own ways.

More words. I need to shut up now XD Time for a nap.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 21 Nov 2012, 11:54
PffffHAHAHA! Look at Marten's hands in the last panel! He's doing the little "I'm so angry I'm gonna put my arms straight down and turn my fists up at the wrists" thing Hannelore does. It's adorable!

Marten is just too cute.  I doubt he actually does anything to get his coffee back either.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JaneAlice on 21 Nov 2012, 11:57
PffffHAHAHA! Look at Marten's hands in the last panel! He's doing the little "I'm so angry I'm gonna put my arms straight down and turn my fists up at the wrists" thing Hannelore does. It's adorable!

Marten is just too cute.  I doubt he actually does anything to get his coffee back either.

Not his coffee, he offered to pour clinton some.

Also, Claire is my hero. As is Jeph. No matter how he writes her the simple fact that he was brave enough to do so touches my heart.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 21 Nov 2012, 12:38
I admire her courage, and I admire the sound artistic choice of making her a character first with her being a trans person not even close to the first thing mentioned.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackjoker on 21 Nov 2012, 12:40
On a topic related to the comic and less to the current posting, why does Clinton seem to hate Marten so much?

I think it was touched on a couple pages ago maybe?  Anyway Marten kicked Clinton out of his apartment the first time he met Hanners, daughter of his beloved idol Hannerdad.  I think someone brought up jealousy of his and Hanner's closeness, too.  Throw that on top of his natural protectiveness and you get "oh i guess you're not ALL bad then"

I suppose that makes some sense, still, given that Clinton himself seems to realize that he rather badly overstepped boundaries when he went into Martens apartment etc. Then again I suppose that anger and the like is seldom rational as I have seen in both myself and others many times.

My guess? Probably because Marten threatened him with a sword when Clinton was perving over Hanners.

Yeah...though I get the idea that Clinton would probably do the same...or at least use his might fist of robotics to defend his sister.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Magdalena on 21 Nov 2012, 12:46
Just popping in to say I think it's pretty brave of Jeph to include Claire as transgendered into the story and I wish Claire all of the success in the world. :) (And also tell her that her red hair is super cute :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 21 Nov 2012, 13:16
Jeph, if you're reading this, save us from ourselves.

Turkeys, tomorrow as is tradition, then again on Friday - you know, leftovers
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ChaosWolf on 21 Nov 2012, 13:37
Clinton's reaction may have nothing to do with Marten in particular. It's consistent with a life experience of Claire usually getting hostile reactions. He may just expect the worst of anyone who finds out. This could even be subtle artistry where Jeph is communicating the life experience of trans people encountering  hostility without changing his lighthearted tone by showing hostility on screen.

Claire has a supportive family!

This is the same impression I got from his reaction - they might bicker as siblings do, but outsiders berating them is Not Allowed, and the way he was immediately ready to leap to her defense implies it is something he's had to do before.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackjoker on 21 Nov 2012, 14:00
Clinton's reaction may have nothing to do with Marten in particular. It's consistent with a life experience of Claire usually getting hostile reactions. He may just expect the worst of anyone who finds out. This could even be subtle artistry where Jeph is communicating the life experience of trans people encountering  hostility without changing his lighthearted tone by showing hostility on screen.

Claire has a supportive family!

This is the same impression I got from his reaction - they might bicker as siblings do, but outsiders berating them is Not Allowed, and the way he was immediately ready to leap to her defense implies it is something he's had to do before.

Agreed, and I think that it's excellent that she has such a supportive family, and it also does a lot to help rehabilitate Clinton as well...still needs to work on his social skills a bit but at least he's a good brother and supportive, hopefully their parents are supportive too. Hmm..on a weird side note, I wonder if any of the tech in the QC verse made transitioning easier, and if so if that might also be part of why Clinton would admire Hannelores father, if only because his work in addition to giving Clinton a hand, also allowed his sister to be who and what she is....eh I'm probably over thinking it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 21 Nov 2012, 14:06
This forum? Overthink something? That's never happened before!  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 21 Nov 2012, 14:09
Quote
...eh I'm probably over thinking it.

And your point would be...?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 15:32
So how about that comic.
It's pretty awesome.

I do love the expressions in the last panel.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Catayana on 21 Nov 2012, 15:37
So how about that comic.
It's pretty awesome.

I do love the expressions in the last panel.

It is well drawn!
I wonder if Claire told her brother that she'd told Marten as a way to give him someone to talk to about this stuff..
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JaneAlice on 21 Nov 2012, 15:37
Claire's expression in the 2nd panel was great
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: percivaltercy on 21 Nov 2012, 15:41
The comic is awesome.
Jeph is a hero that got this thread to be on 17 pages, and by Friday it would easily be 25 if he kept the script around Claire, and maybe Clinton. A helping of butts-disease around the primo-slurping-noise-real-state wouldn't hurt either.
But I dread the turkeys...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 21 Nov 2012, 15:42
It amuses me to recall how Claire, when introduced, was criticised and even somewhat disliked by some forum-goers for being too tightly wound. On the basis of not-very-many strips.

At least one person got quite wound up about it, in fact. Something I think that I tried to humourously point out at the time.

But hey, people have come round. Initial impressions can be funny things, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: StevenC on 21 Nov 2012, 15:48
Oh yeah right, there was a comic that goes along this forum.
Uhh, I liked how Marten does the hands thing. Shows how much being friends with Hanners rubbed off on him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 15:49
It is well drawn!
I wonder if Claire told her brother that she'd told Marten as a way to give him someone to talk to about this stuff..

Ooh, that's an interesting thought! It might also be kind of a way of letting Clinton (and herself) relax a little to know that in this one group they have an ally in the know who can help smooth things out...and also be there to field any questions or prevent future awkwardness.
Martin knows his group of friends well,  far better than Claire or Clinton do, and would then be able to predict potential reactions within the new group better than they could.
I imagine it would also be a relief to not have the big secret so much a secret.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: chaostheory on 21 Nov 2012, 15:49
So how about that comic.
It's pretty awesome.


That it is..... although, am I alone in thinking that introducing a drunken Faye into a kitchen with knives and Clinton insulting Marten would be a recipie for hilarity?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 21 Nov 2012, 15:53
I'd rather say disaster, but someone would tell (rightfully) that there's no reason it can't be both.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 21 Nov 2012, 15:54
The Return of the OMGTurkeys! What are YOU thankful for?

The strip.     58 (13.4%)
Jeph's health.     94 (21.8%)  <=== See, Jeph? We still cares about ya.
MY health.     52 (12%)

YOUR health.     24 (5.6%)
Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).     76 (17.6%)
This forum.     18 (4.2%)
Turkey and all the trimmings.     12 (2.8%)
The interwebs.     43 (10%)
Something else.     19 (4.4%)
Spathe Ham!     9 (2.1%)
...must... read... ALL the posts...     27 (6.3%)  <=== Are you KIDDING? I don't think even HANNELORE would do that...

Total Members Voted: 167
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 21 Nov 2012, 15:56
After rereading today's comic I wonder why Clinton reacted the way he did to the news.  Was it Clinton's opinion of Marten or did they have a bad experience in the past with people who have found out that information?

This is definitely my first experience with animosity in this area and I don't think that this subforum is really the place for it... I know that this is an extremely personal subject but maybe disagreements would be better suited in discuss? Or maybe left off the internet in general...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 16:05
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Constructed around the ultimate in wooden pillars (for the environmentally friendly ;) ), the bunker has its own water supply, food, tv, dvd collection and three bathrooms. All under flickering fluorescent lights!
Capable of comfortably holding 100 people in comfortable comfort for 1 year, the ForumCo----
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(You can leave your entry fees to the presentation at the door as you leave. KTHXBYE)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 21 Nov 2012, 16:12
Wait!  You're not going to let me in, even with my two bottles of Laphroaig?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: percivaltercy on 21 Nov 2012, 16:21
New user here, first post, hi all! I more or less specifically registered to reply to this.

Welcome!
If Pintsize really runs for presidency, I say he must wear the hat and the subtle beard!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PintsizeForPresident on 21 Nov 2012, 16:37
New user here, first post, hi all! I more or less specifically registered to reply to this.

Welcome!
If Pintsize really runs for presidency, I say he must wear the hat and the subtle beard!!!!!

Why thank you! I was actually thinking of Pintsize in cheerleader skirt and pom-poms. It's from a filler comic from a while back with Faye, Marten and Hannelore in sports outfits. I've seen it this afternoon when I was re-reading some of the strips, but I cannot find it anymore. Maybe some kind soul can point me to it?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 16:46
It's not a question of rights. It's a very simple rule: Don't be a dick. I have every right to call you Ape, Meat, Eukaryote, Bag of Water, or Heap of Protons. And I hope you'll agree that all these designations are true in certain contexts. But I won't (except here, and only as an example), because I respect the fact that you are a person.

Yes, this...So much.

Also welcome!


I have to dissent a little, I think Momo would be a better president. Pintsize would be an excellent Vice-President though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: chaostheory on 21 Nov 2012, 16:48
Mind you, the source is Wikipedia, but Wikipedia claims that an XY female does not have ovaries, and therefore cannot produce eggs. (And, also, the various female hormones wouldn't be produced, so puberty would essentially not happen, but apparently if HRT is used, menstruation and even pregnancy via embryo transfer are possible.)

Also, Wikipedia claims that XX males are sterile, too.

Wikipedia is suckier than usual on this topic, I gets my info from medical journal articles in university libraries mostly on this kinda thing.

Back to the comic though... I am kinda wondering if Claire was prompted to tell Marten to some extent by drunk Fayes make-out comment. Not suggesting that Claire is into Marten, just that some of her motivation was thinking about some situations where it'd be useful to have that information out there already. Not like Faye has form for being a catalyst or anything  :laugh:. Right, thats quite enough of psychoanalysing a comic character.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 16:49
I think she was actually beginning to tell him before Faye interrupted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JaneAlice on 21 Nov 2012, 16:57
I think she was actually beginning to tell him before Faye interrupted.

I also got that vibe. I love how she told him, it's basically how I have told everyone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PintsizeForPresident on 21 Nov 2012, 16:59
It's not a question of rights. It's a very simple rule: Don't be a dick. I have every right to call you Ape, Meat, Eukaryote, Bag of Water, or Heap of Protons. And I hope you'll agree that all these designations are true in certain contexts. But I won't (except here, and only as an example), because I respect the fact that you are a person.

Yes, this...So much.

Also welcome!


I have to dissent a little, I think Momo would be a better president. Pintsize would be an excellent Vice-President though.

Thanks! And you are probably right, but ask yourself: would Momo be as much fun?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 17:08
I also got that vibe. I love how she told him, it's basically how I have told everyone.

It's how three of my friends told me!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tormuse on 21 Nov 2012, 17:08
Regarding the comic, I think it's a bit ironic that Clinton is expressing an expectation of Marten acting like a dick, when he himself is acting like a dick to Marten.  :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tormuse on 21 Nov 2012, 17:11
I also got that vibe. I love how she told him, it's basically how I have told everyone.

It's how three of my friends told me!

I have one trans friend who I corresponded with before she transitioned and she broke the news to me by saying, "I changed my name today."

EDIT:  This wasn't supposed to be a double post;  I expected six people to post in between them.  :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 21 Nov 2012, 17:35
18 pages. Not bad.

"People should try to be nice to each other. And don't be a ####."

I think that's what the boss would say (in-between signing books and downing Percocets).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 21 Nov 2012, 17:42
Wheaton's Law can never repeated too much.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JaneAlice on 21 Nov 2012, 17:46
18 pages. Not bad.

"People should try to be nice to each other. And don't be a ####."

I think that's what the boss would say (in-between signing books and downing Percocets).

That's right Jeph... YOU SIGN MY BOOK! Can't wait to get it, now I just need the first 2
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Nov 2012, 18:52
Karen: Interestingly, Jeph's actually touched on AnthroPC gender.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=339
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=346
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=347

So, looks like AnthroPCs don't have a sex per se (edit: the chassis could - in the case of Momo, it could be argued that it does), but they have a configurable gender as part of the AI, and can have something that serves as sexual activity (and appears to be non-gender-specific).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Just Karen on 21 Nov 2012, 19:08
Karen: Interestingly, Jeph's actually touched on AnthroPC gender.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=339
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=346
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=347

So, looks like AnthroPCs don't have a sex per se (edit: the chassis could - in the case of Momo, it could be argued that it does), but they have a configurable gender as part of the AI, and can have something that serves as sexual activity (and appears to be non-gender-specific).

I would argue that Momo's chassis has a sex.  Pintsize's doesn't.  But if Momo was switched to a male chassis and didn't have the gender switch flipped in the software, would you (plural you, open to anyone) call Momo he or she?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ChaosWolf on 21 Nov 2012, 19:11
But if Momo was switched to a male chassis and didn't have the gender switch flipped in the software, would you call Momo he or she?

I would call the manufacturer and tell them there was a shipping error and they sent the wrong chassis model.

Robots are much easier to "correct" than organics.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Nov 2012, 19:15
I would argue that Momo's chassis has a sex.  Pintsize's doesn't.  But if Momo was switched to a male chassis and didn't have the gender switch flipped in the software, would you (plural you, open to anyone) call Momo he or she?

I'd say that a male-chassis Momo, while the gender switch was set to female (BTW, ChaosWolf, for the sake of the experiment, let's say that Momo chose the male chassis, and also chose to keep the gender switch set to female, so as to not weasel out of classifying this) would be something along the lines of a female cross-dressing as male (given the ease (even if it's expensive) of switching chassis, it's almost as easy as a human changing clothes) in human terms?

And, something I edited into my previous post, then saw replies, so I removed it:

Another thing I realized, but this goes into an earlier discussion on these forums about the timeline of robots getting equal rights versus the timeline of the story... if you combine the more recent assertion that AIs become partners with their humans (not in that way!) via a contract, and that robots have equal rights, with Marten's statement in #347, things start to get odd - the robot's partner can set a gender for the robot upon entering the contract at the very least? That would indicate a gender change, as the AI isn't created for the human specifically on first boot of the AnthroPC, the AI is paired with the human and installed in the chassis. (And, it's implied that it's a setting (similar to Pintsize's language settings that changed personality significantly), meaning it could be changed at will by the owner (and I do mean owner in this instance), at least on pre-AI rights software.)

(IIRC, the way that the forums resolved the dichotomy between Jeph's handling of the human/robot relationship before and after Momo was either, AIs got equal rights not long before Momo was introduced (making it a VERY recent event in the QC verse, likely less than a year (QC time) ago), or that many AIs, Pintsize and probably Winslow included, didn't actually care about equal rights (IIRC that was actually discussed in-comic, too, that Pintsize and Winslow didn't want the responsibility).)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 21 Nov 2012, 19:23
So how about that comic.
It's pretty awesome.

I do love the expressions in the last panel.

I've long thought Jeph excels at facial expressions.

Oh, when you suggested Pintsize for Vice-President, was the pun deliberate?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 21 Nov 2012, 19:38
For those of you new to the forums and the strip: every year on Thanksgiving since 2004, Jeph has used photos of turkeys to "celebrate" the holiday - and poke fun at fans of the strip who go over the top with their opinions on the strip.

(The whole list, put together by Mustang6172 who had more time to do it, is here: The Great Turkey Thread (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28474.msg1113659.html#msg1113659))

498 and 1804 are particularly interesting, as they are in proximity to the two "biggest" moments in strip history (The Talk and The Breakup).

(Fixed some of the links, the coding got a little screwy at the end - Method)

TYVM.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 21 Nov 2012, 20:03
Quote

Why thank you! I was actually thinking of Pintsize in cheerleader skirt and pom-poms. It's from a filler comic from a while back with Faye, Marten and Hannelore in sports outfits. I've seen it this afternoon when I was re-reading some of the strips, but I cannot find it anymore. Maybe some kind soul can point me to it?

Northampton Bonercats (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1929)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bev on 21 Nov 2012, 20:21
Is anyone else finding that this comic is pretty much thier life this week? I mean, I read it daily anyway but it's pretty much the only thing on my mind, every day now. Also, I wonder if it was well timed, or just a coincidence that it happened around Transgender day of rememberance (a yearly event that remembers all those trans people murdered over the last year, 264 in this years case).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 21 Nov 2012, 20:23


Quote
jeph jacques ‏@jephjacques

“@IsilD: @jephjacques Did you intentionally time this story arc to coincide with the Trans Day of Remembrance?” nope, serendipity
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 21 Nov 2012, 20:28
I have an actual question or two about the comic, after looking through some of these older linked strips.

Now characters change. Sometimes it's due to developmental progression, sometimes it's due to a storyteller changing their mind over what they're looking to do with that character, or discovering what works better for that character, etc.

Hannelore's mannerisms are somewhat different from her early appearances. Obviously some of that can be chalked up to having yay-friends, but she also sometimes freaks for a moment a lot quicker. I want to say there was a mention of changing dosages of her meds way back in the day, but I don't know. Do I have the right of it, or am I inserting something that wasn't there?

Also need more Winslow, but that's neither here nor there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 20:28
So how about that comic.
It's pretty awesome.

I do love the expressions in the last panel.

I've long thought Jeph excels at facial expressions.

Oh, when you suggested Pintsize for Vice-President, was the pun deliberate?

All my puns are intentional.    :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Nov 2012, 20:32
Hannelore's mannerisms are somewhat different from her early appearances. Obviously some of that can be chalked up to having yay-friends, but she also sometimes freaks for a moment a lot quicker. I want to say there was a mention of changing dosages of her meds way back in the day, but I don't know. Do I have the right of it, or am I inserting something that wasn't there?

You have it right: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1046
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 21 Nov 2012, 20:34
What's known about Hannelore's psychological history is consolidated at
http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Hannelore_Ellicott-Chatham

It's all of the above, plus psychotherapy. She is immeasurably better now than in her childhood.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 21 Nov 2012, 20:34
Hannelore's mannerisms are somewhat different from her early appearances. Obviously some of that can be chalked up to having yay-friends, but she also sometimes freaks for a moment a lot quicker. I want to say there was a mention of changing dosages of her meds way back in the day, but I don't know. Do I have the right of it, or am I inserting something that wasn't there?

That's about the long and short of it. Her radically different behavior at her introduction is explained in story as a change in medication and she's had fluctuations in functionality with some significant break-throughs since.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 21 Nov 2012, 20:35
I have an actual question or two about the comic, after looking through some of these older linked strips.

Now characters change. Sometimes it's due to developmental progression, sometimes it's due to a storyteller changing their mind over what they're looking to do with that character, or discovering what works better for that character, etc.

Hannelore's mannerisms are somewhat different from her early appearances. Obviously some of that can be chalked up to having yay-friends, but she also sometimes freaks for a moment a lot quicker. I want to say there was a mention of changing dosages of her meds way back in the day, but I don't know. Do I have the right of it, or am I inserting something that wasn't there?

Also need more Winslow, but that's neither here nor there.

Yeah, Hanners was on incredibly powerful meds when she first spoke to Marten, hence the rather confident way she spoke. However, if I remember correctly, she didn't like those particular meds because they were so powerful, which is why we started seeing the Hanners we recognise now, the residual meds were being metabolised by her system.

Actually, Hanners tends to be a little unlucky when it comes to new meds as there was the time she forgot to put trousers or a skirt on...and why she didn't freak out when she was given a spare skirt.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JaneAlice on 21 Nov 2012, 20:46
That would be an interesting and potentially hilarious way to out her without people we like being too offensive, actually - have a group be arrested, and have Claire (if she hasn't been surgically corrected) be placed with the male prisoners.  Plus it'd highlight the stupidity of that particular subject.

I love this idea!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 21 Nov 2012, 21:00
Hmmmmm

Interesting


He can Multitask
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JaneAlice on 21 Nov 2012, 21:18
Darn turkey fetishists ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 21 Nov 2012, 21:23
 :mrgreen: :-D 8-) :-) :evil: :angel: :roll: :police: :psyduck: :evil: :cry: :oops: :-\ :wink: :-P :-D :-o :-( :mrgreen:

OMG TURKEEEEEEYYYYSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 21 Nov 2012, 21:29
Gotta love turkeys  :-D they bring up a good point this year too, I wonder what they'll have to say on the subject at hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 21 Nov 2012, 21:33
That... that's pretty much all they have to say, they... just have the one strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 21 Nov 2012, 21:39
holy shit I've changed my mind I fucking love Clinton  :psyduck:

go you staggeringly awkward little nerd go because that is fucking good brothering

also I hope at least one of those temp bans will be fucking permanent because ew Jesus how fucking gross

haaaaaaappy thanksgiving

peace
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 21 Nov 2012, 21:42
That... that's pretty much all they have to say, they... just have the one strip.

Oh... right... Thanksgiving is just the one day each year...  :cry:
Darn it turkeys, I crave civil bird insight
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 21 Nov 2012, 21:48
I tend to think about Jeph's Turkeys like I think of Howard Tayler's old Schlocktoberfest. Not that he does that anymore. Officially.

Flaunt it baby, yeah!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: no one special on 22 Nov 2012, 00:40
I just have to say:

Best Thanksgiving QC ever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 22 Nov 2012, 00:51
What's known about Hannelore's psychological history is consolidated at
http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Hannelore_Ellicott-Chatham

It's all of the above, plus psychotherapy. She is immeasurably better now than in her childhood.

Does that factor in the time she was in bio-stasis? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1068)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Nov 2012, 05:33
The Return of the OMGTurkeys! What are YOU thankful for?

Jeph's health.    101 (22.1%)
Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).    79 (17.2%)
The strip.    61 (13.3%)
MY health.    54 (11.8%)
The interwebs.    44 (9.6%)
...must... read... ALL the posts...    30 (6.6%)
YOUR health.    26 (5.7%)
Something else.    20 (4.4%)
This forum.    19 (4.1%)
Turkey and all the trimmings.    13 (2.8%)
Spathe Ham!    11 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 179

...And a happy OMGTurkey Thanksgiving to all!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 22 Nov 2012, 06:06
Many, many words... that actually made sense even at this time of night in this insomniac state of mine.
First off, and to repeat practically everyone's sentiments: One hell of an introduction, there! We also hope you stay for the shenanigans...

Gods, I missed a SHITLOAD during this day (well, more precisely 28 hours, since it's past midnight here now...). Aside from that flame skirmish (a bit short to be a flame war (and with the deliberate lack of Banhammer), but I will say to incite hate (deliberately or unintentionally) against someone in a group who incites hate against you as a group, puts you down as the same type of fucktard that you're fighting against. It solves nothing), I am loving the civility from both cis-gendered and trans-gendered points of view. If only more people were so thoughtful (see above).

Now, I need sleep. Gotta wake up for work in about 5 hours...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BeoPuppy on 22 Nov 2012, 07:26
I'm really enjoying the modding on this forum, these days. Take bow, ModSquad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 22 Nov 2012, 08:07
(http://cassland.org/images/3bowing.jpg)

"Enjoying" seems a strange word to use; I don't think it's the one any of us would choose!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: idontunderstand on 22 Nov 2012, 08:13
It's very well handled, indeed.

Happy thanksgiving y'all. I can't stomach turkey, though. Good thing we don't celebrate it here in Sweden.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 22 Nov 2012, 08:18
Well if you'd like you can let OMGTurkeys live and eat a WTFDuck or something.  :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 22 Nov 2012, 08:56
Well if you'd like you can let OMGTurkeys live and eat a WTFDuck or something.  :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

WTFDuck needs to become a thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 22 Nov 2012, 09:00
Said by the duck attack survivor.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: lepetitfromage on 22 Nov 2012, 09:10
WTFDuck needs to become a thing.

I whole heartedly second this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZapRowsdower on 22 Nov 2012, 14:51
Lurking for all NINETEEN pages, but registered just to say that I think the joke about Trans-ponders a few pages ago was really, really, funny.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bev on 22 Nov 2012, 19:11
D'aawwww nice to see Clinton and Claire really do love eachother. I realised I had the same thing going on recently with my older brother, we fight all the time, but he's become protective of my bigender situation, and life in general.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 22 Nov 2012, 19:28
Comic  :lol: adorable family, knowing what we do now really makes us look at the people and family dynamic in a whole new light
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 22 Nov 2012, 19:34
Said by the duck attack survivor.

I was once a bling blang blong blung, such as you -- just as you will one day be a duck attack survivor.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 22 Nov 2012, 19:38
Yes. Makes you wonder now if Claire was talking about more than being a librarian. "Everything in its proper place," including the place she's trying to find for herself. With no pointless babbling conversation or yelling and running around like an idiot.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Nov 2012, 19:56
After almost sloshing coffee on the floor, "spill the beans" is a funny expression.

They're aD'AWWrable.

While Cosette is renting out Steve's butt, maybe Claire can rent out Clinton to trans people who need a good family member.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 22 Nov 2012, 20:35
 Also, i forgot:

What he said.

 (http://i.imgur.com/e7LwL.jpg)

 By the Way, today's comic is so cute ^_^ The "overprotective Little Brother"  :angel:

 Seeya.-
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 22 Nov 2012, 20:37
Da'aaaw-comic to end a very interesting week in QC-land!

NEXT WEEK Jeph takes a turn for the dark and kills off a major character in Traditional New England Serial Killer style(*) and ALL EVIDENCE POINTS TO ONE OF THE QC CAST BEING THE KILLER.

But in a shocking plot-twist we find out that everyone is guilty of SOMETHING and the dead character was merely on vacation in Florida, there was a WACKY mixup at the DNA testing lab!









(*)67.3% chance of horrible horrible necrophilia or worse
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 22 Nov 2012, 20:45
While Cosette is renting out Steve's butt, maybe Claire can rent out Clinton to trans people who need a good family member.

We could put Hanners to work cloning him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: maxh on 22 Nov 2012, 21:00
I really want a print of happy Claire (as seen in 2208 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2208) panel 3), but full-length.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Nov 2012, 22:26
It's in character for Marten to be accepting and decent. I'm glad he is, for Claire's sake (yes, I care about an imaginary person).

Is it really in character for him not to say "Guh?" and freeze up?

EDIT: don't you need to do a blood test at least anyway to make sure someone isn't a secret robot?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Nov 2012, 22:31
Perhaps Claire isn't the first person to "come out" to him.


...Like, say, Dad?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Nov 2012, 22:39
Marten doesn't handle surprises well, is what I'm thinking. Seeing Marigold in a bikini or finding out his dad was remarrying (and I don't think for an instant that the gay part had anything to do with Marten's discombobulation) or getting propositioned by Dora all produced brain freeze.

Hmm -- the more charged the situation is, the better he performs? He managed to be supportive and not stammer during The Talk.

Or having a friend needing support switches on his higher functions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 22 Nov 2012, 22:48
D'awwww. :)

I think Claire and Clinton have shown the full gamut of sibling interactions by now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 22 Nov 2012, 22:54
Perhaps Claire isn't the first person to "come out" to him.


...Like, say, Dad?

I've always wondered what went through little Marten's head when he found his father's magazines...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: muffin_of_chaos on 22 Nov 2012, 22:56
What beans though!  Jinx what!
Curses, now we have to wait [measure of time greater than three days]!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cam94509 on 22 Nov 2012, 23:02
What beans though!  Jinx what!
Curses, now we have to wait [measure of time greater than three days]!

I think the beans in questions were the fact that Claire is trans. She was worried that he would accidentally out her sometime during the night; she CHOSE to come out to Marten later in the night, but you'll notice she hasn't even come out to the rest of the group, so him outing her would still have been a problem.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 23 Nov 2012, 00:02
D'awwwww.
What a great little brother.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 23 Nov 2012, 00:03
 I got to say that i love the almost full acceptance of Claire in here  :-)

 Also it's kind of sad to think that in the past she had some troubles (with shitty people).

 But in Momo's words:
 (http://i.imgur.com/GiMVZ.jpg)

 So i hope this continue like this  :angel:

 Seeya.-

PS: English is not my first language, please forgive me if i made some grammar mistakes ^^U
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 23 Nov 2012, 00:18
Y'know, I just realized what's felt "off" about this entire scene: Marten seems almost too complacent.  Emotionless.  As though - and of course this isn't true - he were transparently trying to get their guard down so they won't realize he's coming back with a shotgun.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vurogj on 23 Nov 2012, 00:19
K1dmor, it will be easy to forgive you any grammar mistakes if you keep bringing up beautiful and thoughtful comics from QC's past as you have now done twice. Well done.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: teclo on 23 Nov 2012, 01:27
dawwww  :cry:

I'm feeling a bit sappy after todays strip
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 23 Nov 2012, 01:47
OT:
Happy thanksgiving y'all. I can't stomach turkey, though. Good thing we don't celebrate it here in Sweden.
Nothing wrong with turkey.  Though we could use a holiday in the autumn to get a day or two off, not necessarily Thanksgiving. There's way too many holidays in the spring and not enough in the (grey and boring) autumn.

Back OnTopic (aka Today's Comic):
I really liked today's comic.
It sheds some light on the sibling rivalry and how they still love each other, no matter how much they pick on each other whenever they have the chance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: no one special on 23 Nov 2012, 02:15
Hmm -- the more charged the situation is, the better he performs? He managed to be supportive and not stammer during The Talk.

Or having a friend needing support switches on his higher functions.

Yes to both.

This pretty much how my brain works as well.  When it comes to trying to be super-careful to say exactly the right thing (i.e. Mar-Bear/bikini situation) - I will absolutely fuck it up.  I get flustered, inadvertently make an inappropriate joke, you name it.  When I get anxious, it gets ugly, and I will usually say the wrong thing.

But when my brain switches into crisis mode - i.e. friend in distress, taking control of a chaotic situation, someone needs to be cared for - everything is calm.  No stress, no anxiety, I just do exactly what needs to be done. Be totally supportive, listen, give feedback - even if it's something that directly involves me.  The switch just flips, it's crazy.

It's weird, man, I dunno why it happens that way - but I feel like Marten's got something similar going on, like you said. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: gopher on 23 Nov 2012, 03:44
It's all going well. Great story, excellent art.
As a side note, how common is interaction between 2 "non-core" characters in the strip? Though I guess that depends on your definition of non-core I guess.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 23 Nov 2012, 03:45
Okay, now it makes sense that Claire invited Clinton, despite what we had seen of their relationship.











He's fun to pick on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 23 Nov 2012, 04:26
When it comes to trying to be super-careful to say exactly the right thing (i.e. Mar-Bear/bikini situation) - I will absolutely fuck it up.  I get flustered, inadvertently make an inappropriate joke, you name it.  When I get anxious, it gets ugly, and I will usually say the wrong thing.

But when my brain switches into crisis mode - i.e. friend in distress, taking control of a chaotic situation, someone needs to be cared for - everything is calm.  No stress, no anxiety, I just do exactly what needs to be done. Be totally supportive, listen, give feedback - even if it's something that directly involves me.  The switch just flips, it's crazy.

It's weird, man, I dunno why it happens that way - but I feel like Marten's got something similar going on, like you said.
It's a strange phenomenon for sure. I'm about the same as well (except my life is more or less lived online, which does help when you can revise your thoughts before submitting them). Under normal circumstances, I'm pretty much either a stammering idiot, or silent, awkwardness and all. But when something is up with someone, you just... say the things you think they need to hear, and it's helpful.

In my case, it's probably because of that Internet "comfort zone" that I have. Get me face-to-face, and it's not there (my mouth hits "submit" before my brain finishes writing its message, if you will, and me thinking on the fly... does not work).

Also on today's comic, I d'awwwed a little (OK, fine, a lot) at their interaction today. Bro still has to look out for his sister, trans* or not. Siblings: The only people that will torment each other for their own amusement, and then beat the shit out of anyone else that tries. At least, ideally so...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Nov 2012, 05:51
I honestly don't think there's been a comic that didn't feature one of the top "nine" characters (Marten, Faye, Dora, Hanners, Marigold, Steve, Sven, Tai, Pintsize) since Wil and Penelope.

EDIT: Actually, 2250 and Emily/Momo's interaction is the last time two non-main characters were in a strip essentially "by themselves."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Cat on 23 Nov 2012, 06:38
Issue the first:
I'm only up to page 7 in this thread.

Issue the second:
This is hardly the first time Jeff has touched on the transness of mainline characters.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=973
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974

Issue the third:
I'm trans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Nov 2012, 06:53
Heh, forgot about "ballpocalypse".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 23 Nov 2012, 09:10
Aaaaaaw man this is adorable. Today I'm gonna celebrate my bday with my family (bday is tomorrow but that day will be spent mostly with my closest friends)... I'll make sure to give an extra big hug to my sis since we don't see each other too much nowdays.

I love these kind of comics, makes me appreciate the love I get from my family and friends which I take for granted most of the time.

I'm inspired! LOVE TO EVERYONE! :D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 23 Nov 2012, 09:27
As a guy with an older sister, I too know how Clinton feels. I also know that we tore bloody chunks out of each other when we were growing up. I also know that when she brought her first boyfriend, I immediately threatened to kick him in the shin and run away if he ever hurt her (I was 15, he was a 7 foot tall rugby player).

So yeah, little brothers do tend to be quite protective of their sisters.....but they'll never tell them that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jokrmein on 23 Nov 2012, 09:36
Has anyone else wondered what would happen if Tai wasn't with Dora, how Claire would have reacted to Tai coming onto her?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 23 Nov 2012, 11:49
Well, she's 24, so she must have mastered handling unwanted attention by now. Unless she's so nerdy and hard-working that her social experience has been limited?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Cat on 23 Nov 2012, 14:34
With regard to the Lips/No Lips sexual dimorphism in the QC-verse... it's bunkum.

Anyone who emphasizes their lips with cosmetics (generally women) get the appearance of their lips augmented, but note the guys in the bottom row of that infographic. They all have a line that hints at their lip structure. They're not completely lipless. They're just lipstickless. It's only Clinton and Claire who are shown completely devoid of lips, but I noticed a distinct absence of Mar-bear.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2307

OMG. She has no lips! Maybe she's a long lost cousin of Clinton and Claire! Or, she's a geekgirl at a lake party who doesn't engage in makeup in her everyday life and so has even less reason to engage in it when going out into the woods to swim in a lake and eat grilled food with friends.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 23 Nov 2012, 14:47
Momo has no lips. Neither do Winslow and Pintsize.

Oh my god. Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 23 Nov 2012, 14:52
it's bunkum.

Well, sort-of.  At the start, Faye had lips, but Sara didn't.  Nor did the customers and staff in the restaurant that Marten and Faye went to.  After that the lips/no lips became more consistent, and I think (I'm not going looking right now) that it was about 1500 that the consistency began to break down again.  It's still a pretty strong indicator, none the less.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElvisRevenge on 23 Nov 2012, 16:44
What beans though!  Jinx what!
Curses, now we have to wait [measure of time greater than three days]!

I think the beans in questions were the fact that Claire is trans. She was worried that he would accidentally out her sometime during the night; she CHOSE to come out to Marten later in the night, but you'll notice she hasn't even come out to the rest of the group, so him outing her would still have been a problem.

But then why is he worried about jinxing it? He had that look on his face that he was concerned about something... else.

I mean, you're probably right. It's just fun to think about MOAR MISTREYS
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 23 Nov 2012, 16:56
What beans though!  Jinx what!
Curses, now we have to wait [measure of time greater than three days]!

I think the beans in questions were the fact that Claire is trans. She was worried that he would accidentally out her sometime during the night; she CHOSE to come out to Marten later in the night, but you'll notice she hasn't even come out to the rest of the group, so him outing her would still have been a problem.

But then why is he worried about jinxing it? He had that look on his face that he was concerned about something... else.

I mean, you're probably right. It's just fun to think about MOAR MISTREYS

My guess would be that now that Marten knows, there is something of a relief on Clinton, as he isn't the only person who knows Claire now. But with that relief, Clinton might become a little careless. In talking to Marten, he might let something slip in front of someone else.

As for his concern, it might be that he's worried about Claire telling Marten. All his experience with Mr. Reed has been being threatened with a sword and tied to a chair and being threatened, hardly leaving the best impression.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 23 Nov 2012, 17:37
In Momo's words:
 (http://i.imgur.com/GiMVZ.jpg)

Yes, exactly. One day... probably not in my lifetime though.

We just memorilised the 263 trans people killed this year for being trans. Up from last year, but I think it's just a sign of better reporting, not an increase in violence. True figure's at least an order of magnitude higher.

To gain some perspective - statistically, in the US we should have about 1 trans person murdered every 2-3 years. There were at least 15 last year alone.

Having an artist take so many pains not to hurt or give offence.... you have no idea how much that's appreciated.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Nov 2012, 17:56
The Return of the OMGTurkeys! What are YOU thankful for?

The strip.    62 (13%)
Jeph's health.    105 (22%)
MY health.    57 (11.9%)
YOUR health.    29 (6.1%)
Family and friends (though not necessarily in that order).    84 (17.6%)
This forum.    19 (4%)
Turkey and all the trimmings.    13 (2.7%)
The interwebs.    44 (9.2%)
Something else.    22 (4.6%)
Spathe Ham!    12 (2.5%)
...must... read... ALL the posts...    31 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 186
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 23 Nov 2012, 19:00
Dawwww

Cute sibling moment
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Visible_One on 23 Nov 2012, 19:15
Been a while since I posted in the forums, but the comic has been so good lately! Not to mention this thread has been great, with excellent posts and SCIENCE galore.

on an unrelated note: I remember being around when the useless broom of dicks first appeared. Mention of them never fails to make me smile.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Nov 2012, 19:38
By the way - I get this sense that in those last panels after Marten left, Claire's voice suddenly changed by about an octave.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Astroasis on 23 Nov 2012, 20:38
What's known about Hannelore's psychological history is consolidated at
http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Hannelore_Ellicott-Chatham

It's all of the above, plus psychotherapy. She is immeasurably better now than in her childhood.

I got a solid laugh out of the "Criticisms" section. TIL that people with OCD never forget anything anywhere. News to me. I forget everything everywhere and as a result, have to have my purse/wallet somehow attached to myself when I go out - or else I set it down and WHOOSH! It's forgotten. I've probably lost hundreds of dollars' worth of purchases (I wish I was exaggerating) by setting down the bags to look at something else... and then walking away.

Anyone who emphasizes their lips with cosmetics (generally women) get the appearance of their lips augmented, but note the guys in the bottom row of that infographic. They all have a line that hints at their lip structure. They're not completely lipless. They're just lipstickless. It's only Clinton and Claire who are shown completely devoid of lips, but I noticed a distinct absence of Mar-bear.

Totally agreed. Not to harp on the OCD thing (it's just a coincidence that both of my comments here relate to it, lol), but someone earlier tried to say this couldn't be the case because Hanners is shown with lips and she wouldn't wear lipstick, due to her OCD. *forehead smack* No, Hannelore totally could (and probably does) wear lipstick. Marigold totally does ping me as someone who often wouldn't bother with it, though - and she's been shown at times to BE wearing it, which also seems pretty true-to-form for her character.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 23 Nov 2012, 20:58
Totally agreed. Not to harp on the OCD thing (it's just a coincidence that both of my comments here relate to it, lol), but someone earlier tried to say this couldn't be the case because Hanners is shown with lips and she wouldn't wear lipstick, due to her OCD. *forehead smack* No, Hannelore totally could (and probably does) wear lipstick.

 Indeed.
 She used it in her father's birthday in the space station (#2135 - #2160).

 (http://i.imgur.com/5PTPs.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: riccostar on 23 Nov 2012, 21:02
"STATION THEY KNOW!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 23 Nov 2012, 21:08
Makeup is evidently another recently acquired skill (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=944).

You've come a long way, baby.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Astroasis on 23 Nov 2012, 21:11
Indeed.
 She used it in her father's birthday in the space station (#2135 - #2160).

 (http://i.imgur.com/5PTPs.jpg)

Yeah, see! That's totally what I was- Wait. Her father has lips. Now I'm confused again.

Makeup is evidently another recently acquired skill (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=944).

You've come a long way, baby.

She sure has XD And might I say how much I love Winslow's "I think you're beautiful!" <3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 23 Nov 2012, 21:23
Yeah, see! That's totally what I was- Wait. Her father has lips. Now I'm confused again.

 No, he hasn't  ._.
 The lady in the lab coat is the "Doctor as a hobby" of the station  :lol: .
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Astroasis on 23 Nov 2012, 22:02
Yeah, see! That's totally what I was- Wait. Her father has lips. Now I'm confused again.

 No, he hasn't  ._.
 The lady in the lab coat is the "Doctor as a hobby" of the station  :lol: .

Oh my God!!! I'm a complete moron. :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 24 Nov 2012, 02:33
Damn, I was on my way to the bunker, and this thread happened...

took me a few days, but I've caught up.  It's been alternately fascinating, horrifying, satisfying, and at times, downright silly. 



Thanks, everyone. 


 :psyduck: <--- Isn't this the WTF Duck?   :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 24 Nov 2012, 03:25
It's been alternately fascinating, horrifying, satisfying, and at times, downright silly.

Isn't that QC in a nutshell though?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 24 Nov 2012, 03:56
True that. We just try to spread that fascinating, horrifying, satisfying silliness as far into our lives as is humanly (and maybe inhumanly) possible.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 24 Nov 2012, 04:10
By the way - I get this sense that in those last panels after Marten left, Claire's voice suddenly changed by about an octave.
No matter what, I still hear him with the voice of Dian Bachar in my head.

EDIT: DAMMIT, I completely misread jwhouk's post, I was speaking about Clinton!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 24 Nov 2012, 06:34
Damn, I was on my way to the bunker, and this thread happened... :psyduck: <--- Isn't this the WTF Duck?   :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:
Psyduck? I guess, sort of. What the duck?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CompSarge on 24 Nov 2012, 23:28
It's comics like Friday's that make me really wish I had a sibling. Growing up as an only child is a pretty lonesome endeavor.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 25 Nov 2012, 02:13
Soon there will be a new week, and a new thread to discuss comics in.

The extensive discussion in this thread came about as a result of the comics, of course, but this is the time for discussions that go beyond the comics themselves to migrate to the Chatter and Discuss parts of the forum where they can continue without getting split up each week.  Concerns from this thread have already spawned a new thread in Discuss, and some have been touched on in other existing threads.  Feel free to join in on those threads and to create others if appropriate; it will make more sense in the long run to do that now and to leave the next comic discussion thread to discuss new comics without getting interleaved with more serious matters.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Caspian Sea Monster on 25 Nov 2012, 06:41
Hi.  Eight year reader.  New forum member (the existence of this message board didn't really register in my mind, and I'm not generally a forum person anyway) brought out of the woodwork, like so many others, by the Claire arc.  I'm a 25-year-old trans woman and college student, so Claire hits pretty close to home for me.

I really have nothing constructive to add here, except that I want to thank the majority of members here for truly being a class act.  With the exception of a few meatheads, this has been a pretty enjoyable read.  You guys are awesome.  I also want to thank Jeph but... well, I already did that via email.  Twice.

I'd also like to add that I read this entire 21-page thread in one sitting over about six hours.  I feel like I've run my head through a wheat thresher.  I should go lay down.   :psyduck:

--Katemonster
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 25 Nov 2012, 16:04
The discussion of trans* issues has been separated out from this thread as well as I could manage.  The new topic has been moved to DISCUSS! (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?board=16.0).

http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?topic=28499.0 (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?topic=28499.0)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: EspyPsyche on 25 Nov 2012, 16:55
D'awwwww.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Bev on 25 Nov 2012, 18:26
But now there's two seperate trans threads...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 25 Nov 2012, 20:59
Better a surplus than a dearth. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 25 Nov 2012, 21:41
Better a surplus than a dearth.

Surplice - Good:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Choirhabit.jpg/220px-Choirhabit.jpg)

Darth - Not so Good

(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/f7/8e/darth%20vader_2.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 25 Nov 2012, 21:44
I like your sense of humor.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2323-2327 (19-23 November 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheRedMaiden on 25 Nov 2012, 22:36
All the props to Clinton for protecting his big sister :laugh:

Jeph totally nails the sibling rivalry/relationship between these two. At Thanksgiving this year my older sister and I beat the crap out of each other, (oh, man, my poor grandmother who's never seen us fight before), and were laughing all the time and the time afterwards. Needless to say my mom was pissed, but it was a bonding moment :wink: