THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 24 Feb 2013, 13:42
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And we kick off yet another week.
Fixed typo in thread title - Method
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Drunk makeouts for whom? Veronica? Claire? Marten?
(Do not answer "Claire and Marten." That would not be "random.")
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According to the secret notes... EVERYONE FUCKS.
This could get awkward real quick.
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Drunk makeouts for whom?
The answer is, "Yes."
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totally psyched for drunken makeouts.
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Claire is outed as a trans in a most embarrassing way during the wedding.
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"Trans" isn't a noun, you're missing the word "woman" in that sentence. I have said this many, many times before but I don't think Jeph would ever be crass enough to use Claire's gender status as a cheap plot mechanism, and it is just not in Marten's character to thoughtlessly let slip such an important and private aspect of his friend's life.
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It turns out that Maurice is an old friend of Hannelore's mom and she's invited to the wedding. Beatrice Chatham and Veronica Reed hit it off immediately, and wind up going back to Veronica's room. What follows sets off seismographs up and down the East Coast. Claire blushes.
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I don't think Jeph would ever be crass enough to use Claire's gender status as a cheap plot mechanism
He won't. I usually wouldn't say things with such certainty, but considering he changed a comic because he thought it might be interpreted as using her gender status as the punchline, I think it's safe to say he won't.
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Comic's up!
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:-o
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Aha. A non-wedding photo session coming up.
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Called it!
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Prediction: During the wedding, the officiant will go off on two rants. The first will be about how marriage is between a man and a woman. The second will be about why you shouldn't pay the officiant upfront in cash.
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Others have said it before, but now I, personally, suddenly understand Marten much better. Imagine that happening all through his life.
Scene: Tween Marten walks in the front door, to see the living dungeon room and his mom in nothing but garters and stiletto boots standing on a guys back and 5 production guys.
"Welp, I'll be upstairs doing homework."
Okay honey, there's lemonade in the fridge if you're thirsty!"
Interesting drink selections. Claire and Marten are having orange juice, the other two are... not.
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I find it interesting that Claire is shocked in Panel 4, but not blushing. Oh, poor oblivious Marten, when will you notice? (Never.)
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Comic's up!
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:-o
Ayup. :-o
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Busman's holiday.
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I find it interesting that Claire is shocked in Panel 4, but not blushing. Oh, poor oblivious Marten, when will you notice? (Never.)
Panel 4 Claire : I chuckled out loud when I saw her face. Marten's was predictable, cliche'd, but also fitting. Claire's look was hilarious.
AND as a bonus, we got an explanation of the "Aunt" thing.
Note: Marten, being a boy, is told to look away. Claire, being a girl, is not. Except she's been socialised that way until comparatively recently. Talk about being thown in at the deep end...
Perhaps it's fortunate that Hanners had a cold. I think she'd be out of her depth by light-years.
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Claire, being a girl, is not.
I think it's less Claire being a girl, and more Claire not being related to her.
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Not to mention being on the other side of the table. I'm assuming the photo shoot will all be below-the-belt...
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A pro photographer using a phone-camera? Oh well, they sneered at Leicas once.
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Phone camera? Well, I suppose for upskirts, it's a measure of authenticity.
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Well that actually is understandable. Makes it easier to label it "amateur" or some such. And phone-cameras today have amazing quality to them anyway.
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Yeah, for a lot of folks a certain amount of 'realness' can be a big turn-on.
Actually that's one of the amusing dilemmas, as I understand it, of flesh-and-blood pornography. Do you script and act and light and shoot everything in the finest detail possible, enticing your customers' imaginations with large amounts of vivid data? Do you rely on tropes to make a shortcut through their brains (and also probably saving you and your crew money and time that you didn't spend on the soundtrack, the scripting, the acting, etc)? Do you make the effort to pass it off as 'real' and 'amateur' to engage a slightly different path in their minds, a slightly more 'attainable' or 'grounded' fantasy? And then of course you have to consider what the state of the market is, because an important part of the sexual mind craves *change*, and if it's flooded with one type or trope too much your customers will get desensitized...
AAAAAh I'm overthinking this. ._.
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No more so than those who make their living at it...
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I saw it as her making a note on the phone rather than getting the camera out at the table - but then I'm probably too boring.
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Yeah, for a lot of folks a certain amount of 'realness' can be a big turn-on.
[ ... ]
AAAAAh I'm overthinking this. ._.
Yepp... that's basically the two schools of thought in pornography. (at least as far as I have seen/read)
It all depends on the consumer's preferences and taste.
@pwhodges:
With Veronica pulling up her dress and advising Marten to look away? Nope. That shit's happenin' right now.
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OK, now I see it. And I guess it's official - I'm too boring for this forum and should resign.
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You can do that? Momentous days ...
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The times are mutative (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s6J4LIbEL0), and we are mutants within them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VcGuxU9e-Q). Or something like that. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora_mutantur_et_nos_mutamur_in_illis)
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"Trans" isn't a noun, you're missing the word "woman" in that sentence.
Okay, this is kinda getting on my nerves abit.
I can't say "She-Male" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Crossdresser/Trap" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Trans/Transexual/Transvestite/TS" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Gender Fluid" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't even say "Woman/Girl/Madam/Miss/Mrs./Hostess/Mistress/(Insert female pronoun here)" without getting some grief about it!!
Honestly, try and use the "right word," you get grief about it no matter what you do!! Can anyone make up their minds already?
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I'm assuming that you weren't around for the extensive and protracted debate about precisely this topic, or you would know that "woman" is absolutely the correct term, unless for some reason it is relevant that the woman you are talking about is transgendered, in which case the term is trans woman, or perhaps transwoman. I would say exactly the same thing if you had said "pass me that blue" instead of "pass me that blue book".
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OK, now I see it. And I guess it's official - I'm too boring for this forum and should resign.
You're never too old for a comic strip about 20 somethings.
Honestly, try and use the "right word," you get grief about it no matter what you do!! Can anyone make up their minds already?
This one suggests the words "one" "it" and "they." Guaranteed to get on every native English speakers nerves without being actually offensive to anyone (except those offended having the same terminology applied to humans as to robots, but who cares about them yet?)
I'm assuming that you weren't around for the extensive and protracted debate about precisely this topic, or you would know that "woman" is absolutely the correct term, unless for some reason it is relevant that the woman you are talking about is transgendered, in which case the term is trans woman, or perhaps transwoman. I would say exactly the same thing if you had said "pass me that blue" instead of "pass me that blue book".
What if it was orange? Expecting everyone to be privy to every discussion or have them at recall is unrealistic, and you could have easily sent him a PM explaining as much instead of making it a public issue. And since I didn't notice that discussion, I'll deliver my opinion that 'trans' is a noun, both in the original Latin and as a colloquial term for any person that has transitioned genders.
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And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I try to avoid that subject whenever I can. Regardless of how interesting I think it is. :-D
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Honestly, try and use the "right word," you get grief about it no matter what you do!! Can anyone make up their minds already?
Trans (or trans*) is used as an adjective, not a noun, is all - otherwise you are doing fine, I think. I would adjust the opposite way from May, by suggesting just "trans" rather than "a trans" in your sentence above.
However, gender and sexual terminology can be difficult to cope with. I was brought up to call a polite woman a lady - but if I call my wife a lady she gets quite angry. But we still call the women's toilet "the ladies'" without trouble. The idea is always to avoid terminology that carries an implication beyond the mere facts - a level of judgement, if you like - but the trouble is that different people see different judgements in the various words, and in some cases these are incompatible so there may be no completely neutral way to speak. If your neutrality is visible in general, then problems of this sort can be overcome. Of course, the worst thing is that a lot of people, sadly, actively wish not to be neutral when speaking of these things...
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...I'll deliver my opinion that 'trans' is a noun, both in the original Latin and as a colloquial term for any person that has transitioned genders.
But that's opinion, and an incorrect one at that. Trans-, in English, is a prefix. It has been "nounified" incorrectly, and is also offensive to those who have problematic gender assignment, mainly by its use as a slur.
Okay, this is kinda getting on my nerves abit.
Try thinking of how the insensitivity of those terms gets on the nerves of those who are called them.
I can't say "She-Male" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Crossdresser/Trap" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Trans/Transexual/Transvestite/TS" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
I can't say "Gender Fluid" cause it's derogatory/insulting/misogynist/sexist/I used it wrong/whatever.
Right the first time. Try avoiding those terms and using the ones that have been discussed, extensively, in these very forums!
I can't even say "Woman/Girl/Madam/Miss/Mrs./Hostess/Mistress/(Insert female pronoun here)" without getting some grief about it!!
Naah, it hasn't gone that far! :roll:
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...I'll deliver my opinion that 'trans' is a noun, both in the original Latin and as a colloquial term for any person that has transitioned genders.
But that's opinion, and an incorrect one at that. Trans-, in English, is a prefix. It has been "nounified" incorrectly, and is also offensive to those who have problematic gender assignment, mainly by its use as a slur.
I can cite sources, if you wish. You wouldn't like me when I cite sources.
References aside, as I said it's a colloquialism, and by nature informal and malleable- it's just as correct as 'y'all'. It's a one syllable noun standing in for a longer noun, quite common and accepted, including the occasional converted prefix. Also, 'trans' in trans fats is not short for anything at all nor a prefix, being a current usage of the Latin term.
As for whether it's offensive or not, I tried to write a response several times, but ultimately nixed them all. The ultimate point is that everything is offensive to someone- and yes, there are some people that will be offended by female pronouns. Some of them are stupid things to be offended by, some suffer guilt by association (see: negro), and some are misinterpreted by uninformed bystanders (as I was reminded a couple weeks ago, the first time I heard someone get called German, I thought it was a grave insult). Some of those interpretations aren't worth my effort tiptoeing around.
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Can we have just one meal where you don't talk business?
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The reason I posted publically was because it could have been almost anyone who made the same mistake, so it was useful to make the correction publically. I didn't expect to have such a strong reaction - I apologise if I offended anyone, as that was not my intention, but I won't apologise for the statement itself because what I said was correct and not offensive.
Westrim, citing sources is viewed very positively on this forum and in certain sections is strongly encouraged.
You're correct that the term "trans" can be a noun, I should have said "trans isn't a noun in this context". When it is being used as a short-form of "transgender" then it is an adjective, because "transgender" is an adjective, when being used to describe people.
It's not about whether certain words can ever be used in a different way - in that specific context, that specific word was playing a specific role as an adjective and was used incorrectly.
I also agree that there can be a point where someone taking offence is ridiculous. But this is not one of those instances. Reducing someone to the prefix describing an aspect of their gender identity is offensive. Try and see it from a different perspective - I am a woman and I happen to have quite large breasts. In a context where such a statement would be relevant, I wouldn't be offended at being referred to as a "large-breasted woman". But if someone referred to me as "a large-breasted" without the word woman, I'd feel that was rude. As Paul said, it would be equally correct to remove the article and just say "large-breasted" or "trans".
Honestly, it was only partly about the actual content of the word (in that when there's the possibility of a mistake offending someone, I think it's more important to point it out than if it was a simple typo which no one would be upset by). The overall point was one of grammar; I teach english grammar, it's something I care about.
I just looked a bit more into the term "trans fat" and to see if I can find any instances of trans being a noun. Trans fat is so called because the fatty acids are "trans isomer", meaning "between" (I don't know what an isomer is, but that word itself is a noun - trans is describing it, and the two words together form what I call a "noun phrase" but I don't know if there's an academic term for the concept). Trans is just latin for "between", which isn't a noun - it's strictly a preposition, but it serves a descriptive purpose.
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enticing your customers' imaginations with large amounts of vivid data?
If the subtle pun in there was intentional, you are brilliant. If it wasn't, er, oh look, a mongoose!
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Poor Claire. I mean, I know Marten warned her, but still. Poor Claire. This has been quite the trip for her.
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"Everything is offensive to someone" is a total cop out at any time and especially when it comes to an incredibly marginalised group that is at a horrendously high risk of violence. Trans women are women, trans men are men, we're not talking about genderqueer or non-binary genders here: it's not complicated.
Calling someone "a trans" is about as polite as calling someone "a black" or "a gay". It is not exactly difficult to grasp that people do not want to be described like a thing rather than a person with a specific trait. Using "transgendered" rather than "transgender" or "trans*" is an easier mistake to make, but it's still basic respect to try and learn these things.
Getting irate that you have to think about your language? Well too damn bad, because you clearly can't begin to imagine what it's like to have people in your life refer to you as the wrong gender, at best coloured by the thought that you're deluded, or a freak, or just as commonly, disgusting. If anyone who knows them as trans actually chooses to stay in their life.
Give people the basic respect of calling them by their name and by their preferred pronouns. It's that easy.
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Okay, this is kinda getting on my nerves abit.
/.../
Honestly, try and use the "right word," you get grief about it no matter what you do!! Can anyone make up their minds already?
Oh come now, she was just being a Grammar Nazi. I doubt anyone around would take offense to being called trans* when they are. Also:
"She-Male" - This one should be obvious. Also it's for porn.
"Crossdresser/Trap" - This is just wrong, but it's fine when talking about what it actually means. Also Trap is just internet slang, your mileage may vary.
"Trans/Transsexual/Transvestite/TS" - Again, Transvestism is different, but these are proper uses.
"Gender Fluid" - Suitable for people who are, sure.
"Insert female pronoun here" - Doesn't really make sense to use inbetweener pronouns for people who aren't fluid, whether trans- or cisgender.
There isn't a monolithic "other" outside the norm, so one can't address all smaller groups as one. :)
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*Takes a step to the left of the trainwreck about who should be properly called what, has potentially helpful experience, but everyone else seems to have it covered*
Others have said it before, but now I, personally, suddenly understand Marten much better. Imagine that happening all through his life.
Scene: Tween Marten walks in the front door, to see the living dungeon room and his mom in nothing but garters and stiletto boots standing on a guys back and 5 production guys.
"Welp, I'll be upstairs doing homework."
Okay honey, there's lemonade in the fridge if you're thirsty!"
This was my thought as well, you gotta wonder how that fucks with your head. Mom's a porn star, how does that affect your perception of the opposite sex? Actual sex? Certainly changes how you're gonna browse the internet for porn. One bad search... "Oh god! My eyes!". It's also worth noting that Veronica still actively and forcefully "mothers" Martin. "Be a good boy and look away" you could make a case for emasculation there, and it's been noted before by myself, and others on this forum that she (Veronica) can be quiet controlling in Martin's life.
All things considered it might be pretty amazing that Martin has the spine he has and manages healthy emotional relationships, not to mention sexual relationships that don't involve a pound of chocolate chip pancake batter, an aerial restraint system and a trampoline.
...that last bit actually sounds kinda fun... idea for next date night me thinks.
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I find it interesting that Claire is shocked in Panel 4, but not blushing.
I think she used her blush quote for the day helping with the tie.
I also like the matter-of-fact nature of how Veronica desribes her underthings in Panel 3. I know this probably isn't the first time she's done it for Jane, I also get she knows Marten is used to his mum's work. Although Claire is not someone she has met before. Even with Marten's warning this must be surprising to her, to say the least.
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Intransigent fellow that I am, I think I'll continue using whatever terms spring to mind and ignore the resultant screeches. Too much political correctness and niceties, so call a spade a spade and damn the rest. (was not around for the debate, does not intend to be "educated" about it either)
now that I've done my querulous bit... good Lord I am glad I am from a normal family. Marten's would leave me traumatized. More so than I already am.
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Intransigent fellow that I am, I think I'll continue using whatever terms spring to mind and ignore the resultant screeches. Too much political correctness and niceties, so call a spade a spade and damn the rest. (was not around for the debate, does not intend to be "educated" about it either)
Right.. Because calling an Indonesian woman a Chinaman is totally just avoiding "Political correctness". Man, descriptive terms are oppressive, what happened to the good old days when one could just say "freak" and be done with it?
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You know, this might not be obvious to people that don't browse some of the other sections of this forum obsessively (i.e. me), but you do know this isn't an abstract issue, some of the people whose names are being discussed are right here.
I mean we're not friends or anything, BSword, but we've been playing games together. What are you trying to say that I am?
Now this whole thing was started by a minor, commonly-used mistake. Hell it's one I've made. And goodness knows that the language regarding being Trans* has been a mutable, difficult thing to wrangle. I don't think anyone's really trying to jump down anyone's throat here. I'm not quite sure where some of the apparent anger is coming from. A word was used slightly improperly, and there is a little cultural and emotional baggage that goes with that word, so someone told someone why in this context that's a difficult usage.
I mean, hell, it's not like we're discussing the finer points of acceptable times to call someone a 'nigga'. Well...maybe a tiny bit, actually, if that gives any understanding on this end at least. Not *nearly* as much, but a little.
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I think it's time to put a damper on this discussion of language, which is straying beyond the actual point that started it.
The forum rules require civility and politeness, and this covers the use of appropriate language in sensitive cases. The subject of talking about trans* people is well covered in a couple of threads in the Discuss sub-forum, and has been aired a number of times here as well; the Chatter sub-forum also has threads that have touched on other sexual and gender terminology.
There is no reason not to try to get it right; but it's also necessary that mistakes made in good faith will be tolerated, and gently corrected, if appropriate (and equally, that the correction is accepted and taken to heart), rather than used as a jumping-off point for criticism and argument.
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[ ... ]
All things considered it might be pretty amazing that Martin has the spine he has and manages healthy emotional relationships, not to mention sexual relationships that don't involve a pound of chocolate chip pancake batter, an aerial restraint system and a trampoline.
...that last bit actually sounds kinda fun... idea for next date night me thinks.
... OH DEAR GOD my mind's eye
(edit: also, I'd go on that date with you, regardless of your gender. I mean, seriously, I wouldn't care the tiniest bit what you are or what you wish to be designated as, just to see you smile the ensuing hilarity of what you described. :-D)
[ ... ] Hell it's one I've made.
[ ... ] I mean, hell, [ ... ]
While we're on the topic of bad words. *angrily shakes his cane in one hand and grips his inhailer ever so slightly tighter*
How could you!
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!
I've been undone by my own hubris! :cry:
Well played! :laugh:
On the subject of the comic...I confess that I mistook the paintings for windows for a moment. Then I thought "man what was Jeph on when he drew that', then took another look. >_<
EDIT: Also I'm a little disappointed that the menu just says "Breakfast". I'm spoiled by the CoD blackboard.
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What ELSE are we going to see at this wedding?
That interesting uncle of Marten's. 1 (2.4%)
The flower girl. 1 (2.4%)
Broken glass. 0 (0%)
Veronica's OBJECTION! 0 (0%)
The Electric Slide. 2 (4.8%)
Drunk makeouts with some random dude. 1 (2.4%)
Or gal. 0 (0%)
Claire catches the boquet! 13 (31%)
Marten catches the garter! 2 (4.8%)
MOM catches the boquet! 5 (11.9%)
Oh, it's gonna get weird. 12 (28.6%)
...It got weird. 5 (11.9%)
Total Members Voted: 42
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[ ... ] Hell it's one I've made.
[ ... ] I mean, hell, [ ... ]
While we're on the topic of bad words. *angrily shakes his cane in one hand and grips his inhailer ever so slightly tighter*
How could you!
What'cha got against Hel (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/162/f/7/loki_and_his_children_by_humon-d3ilw21.jpg)? She's not all that bad of a person!
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Man, if I really WERE an old grumpy man chibis would weird the crap out of me. Seriously, what's with you kids today and
all your base all your anime?!
:psyduck:
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Aww...neko oishii kawaii desu, Soulsynger-baka-san! :mrgreen:
I'll stop, I'll stop, put away the pepper-spray! I'll be good.
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Man, if I really WERE an old grumpy man chibis would weird the crap out of me. Seriously, what's with you kids today and all your base all your anime?!
Here's a grumpy old man who's into anime...
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You're not as old or grumpy as my hyperbole requires you to be, pwhodges.
(But now I'm hopin' we get to see SOME grumpy granparents during the wedding. Heh.)
@de_la_Nee:
Pepper spray? PEPPER SPRAY!? That's for wimmin and effeminate boys! I was gonna give you a paddlin' with my cane, though.
And I don't think you need to be so polite as to call me "san" here. :D
Also I'm not a cat. And neither cute nor adorable.
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I'd link what I'm thinking of when I think of 'random nonsense stereotypical anime-gibbering', but the site's a little NSFW. But let it be known I almost went with kowaii instead, which as a word makes me cackle in delight.
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Note: Marten, being a boy, is told to look away. Claire, being a girl, is not. Except she's been socialised that way until comparatively recently. Talk about being thown in at the deep end...
Is it? I think Veronica's just kind of... forgotten her. After all, how many strange men and women alike have seen as much?
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well, I'm pretty sure that it would traumatize me for life if my mother started shooting upskirt pictures/videos while I'm around.
Oh, and Valdís: Which Humon comic is this from? I only know SaTW, but that's definitely her style.
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I find it interesting that Claire is shocked in Panel 4, but not blushing.
Aww. They broke her poor little brain.
She sure is getting a crash course on being part of the QC Crew.
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OMG. Future sight activated.
Marten and Claire walk out of the wedding when it's all over.
Marten: You have been really brave in there. I didn't really think anyone could stand my family for so long.
Claire: Uh... no problem.
Marten: No, seriously, this means a lot to me.
They lean towards each other.... their faces almost touch...
Marten: HERP!
Claire: DERP!
Both: Bwahahaha!
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"Gender Fluid" - Suitable for people who are, sure.
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
<mod>quote tag corrected</mod>
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OMG. Future sight activated.
Marten and Claire walk out of the wedding when it's all over.
Marten: You have been really brave in there. I didn't really think anyone could stand my family for so long.
Claire: Uh... no problem.
Marten: No, seriously, this means a lot to me.
They lean towards each other.... their faces almost touch...
Marten: HERP!
Claire: DERP!
Both: Bwahahaha!
Isn't your avatar from that strip?
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Yes. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1768)
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Social signaling is useful. It can take months for a minority group member to be sure you're safe to be around. If you show up front that you are willing to take the effort to avoid offensive terminology, that's a useful heuristic that allows them to relax slightly and assume you're less likely to torture, rape, and murder them.
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What ELSE are we going to see at the wedding?
I'd put money on seeing Veronica hitting it off (or making out or going on a date) with someone she meets at the reception.
Others have said it before, but now I, personally, suddenly understand Marten much better. Imagine that happening all through his life.
Scene: Tween Marten walks in the front door, to see the living dungeon room and his mom in nothing but garters and stiletto boots standing on a guys back and 5 production guys.
"Welp, I'll be upstairs doing homework."
Okay honey, there's lemonade in the fridge if you're thirsty!"
Yes. This scene is totally canon.
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Claire, who had been thinking about possible future make-outs with Marten, decides to call it off before ever telling him, on account of his family being too weird.
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Responses I must respond to!
Well, my response is-
I think it's time to put a damper on this discussion of language, which is straying beyond the actual point that started it.
Okay. Didn't need to spend half an hour composing, so thanks for nipping that.
Claire, who had been thinking about possible future make-outs with Marten, decides to call it off before ever telling him, on account of his family being too weird.
I think it may actually be a selling point for him.
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OMG. Future sight activated.
Marten and Claire walk out of the wedding when it's all over.
Marten: You have been really brave in there. I didn't really think anyone could stand my family for so long.
Claire: Uh... no problem.
Marten: No, seriously, this means a lot to me.
They lean towards each other.... their faces almost touch...
Marten: HERP!
Claire: DERP!
Both: Bwahahaha!
That's the premonition I had as soon as Claire was for sure going to the wedding. It feels to forced and cliché.
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I don't know what an isomer is
I could do with keeping some of my chemistry knowledge active, so here goes. An isomer is a molecule that has the same molecular formula (basically just the same number of atoms of each element) as another, but has them arranged differently. There are multiple types of isomerism, but cis/trans isomerism (geometric isomerism; E/Z isomerism from the German entgegen and zusammen - respectively 'against, contrary to, in opposition to' and 'together') has to do with the arrangement of atoms in space rather than the bonds that they have. A double (or more) bond cannot 'rotate' much at all, whereas a single bond can.
The simplest cis isomer that I can think of if something like cis-1,2-dichloroethene, which can be represented like this:
Cl Cl
\ /
C == C The chlorine atoms are on the same side of the bond
/ \
H H
The corresponding (although with longer molecules you can have more than two geometric isomers) trans isomer is cis-1,2-dichloroethene:
Cl H
\ /
C == C Opposite sides
/ \
H Cl
A trans fat is a fat with trans isomers making up some (all? I'm not sure) of its fatty acids. I've left out the ends of the chain, but they'd look something like this:
H H H
| | |
..... C -- C -- C -- H H
| | \ /
H H C == C H H The hydrogen atoms are on opposite sides of the double bond, as are the carbon chains
/ \ | |
H H -- C -- C -- C .....
| | |
H H H
See, this is about when Akima comes and tells me that I'm talking rubbish. :D
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I sort of half understood some of that, which is more than can be said of most of the science I have encountered in my life! Thanks :)
-
See, this is about when Akima comes and tells me that I'm talking rubbish. :D
I think that sounds plausibly correct, although I'm a physicist who has spent his career doing electronics and software engineering, so not much of a judge in this context.
I also suspect that usage of Cis and Trans in the ways that have been discussed relate far more to their Latin meanings rather than chemistry, interesting though the chemistry is.
Wikipedia entry on organic chemistry cis/trans isomerism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis_isomer)
-
Yea, the chemical use is based on the Latin meanings of cis/trans as well. I just felt like digging up some college stuff that I haven't used for a few months as a (possibly) interesting aside.
-
Claires face is priceless.
So is Martens.
This is definitely going to be an interesting wedding.
-
Will there be dancing?
What does Martenmom do when she gets on a dance floor?
What happens when she tries it with a 56-year-old body?
-
I feel like I'm supposed to chime in with something about getting down on the floor, maybe doing the dinosaur?
It's been years since I've seen that movie though.
-
And Veronica is going to make it so.
-
I feel like I'm supposed to chime in with something about getting down on the floor, maybe doing the dinosaur?
Without opening the door? How, I ask ye?
-
Oh, and Valdís: Which Humon comic is this from? I only know SaTW, but that's definitely her style.
Oh, not a comic or anything. It's a Mythology upload on her DeviantArt.
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
I.. what.. :psyduck:
-
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
I.. what.. :psyduck:
Sorry, MDBS, I didn't even mean to do that. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1779)
-
[ ... ]
All things considered it might be pretty amazing that Martin has the spine he has and manages healthy emotional relationships, not to mention sexual relationships that don't involve a pound of chocolate chip pancake batter, an aerial restraint system and a trampoline.
...that last bit actually sounds kinda fun... idea for next date night me thinks.
... OH DEAR GOD my mind's eye
(edit: also, I'd go on that date with you, regardless of your gender. I mean, seriously, I wouldn't care the tiniest bit what you are or what you wish to be designated as, just to see you smile the ensuing hilarity of what you described. :-D)
:wink: :psyduck:
How you doin?
Also now that Chemistry (a form of vile mathematics have been brought into this thread I must beat a swift retreat, math hurts me brain meats.
-
Since there's always at least one person a week who seems to speculate about this, I thought I'd repost this from Jeph's twitter:
some dude (funny how it's ALWAYS dudes) was like "it's unrealistic that EVERYONE would be totally chill about it"
@jephjacques I am transgender myself and I kept wondering when the other shoe was going to drop. Glad to know it isn't going to. Thanks.
.@kelli217 It's not a "conflict" I'm interested in writing. I'd rather spend that time and effort focusing on inclusion.
Short version: Jeph isn't going to have Marten accidentally out Claire, or have someone else figure out and be transphobic towards her.
-
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
I.. what.. :psyduck:
Sorry, MDBS, I didn't even mean to do that. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1779)
It appears at least one person isn't an obsessive remember-er of details or an archive-diver. :P
-
Yes, I can imagine that "career day" would be interesting.
-
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
I.. what.. :psyduck:
Sorry, MDBS, I didn't even mean to do that. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1779)
It appears at least one person isn't an obsessive remember-er of details or an archive-diver. :P
*Is genuinely confused by all three of these comments, and Urbandictionary telling me that "happy-batter" means "cum" did not help. Also not finding anything on MDBS.*
-
Even without the internet, it seems unlikely that none of the kids or more talkative parents managed to find out, if only through the same means that Dora did diddle delightfully.
.
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
I.. what.. :psyduck:
Sorry, MDBS, I didn't even mean to do that. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1779)
It appears at least one person isn't an obsessive remember-er of details or an archive-diver. :P
*Is genuinely confused by all three of these comments, and Urbandictionary telling me that "happy-batter" means "cum" did not help. Also not finding anything on MDBS.*
Now I'm confused. MDBS is MillionDollarBeltSander. If you understand that it's a pearly string of semen puns, what is the confusion? Gender fluid is being taken as sex secretions, not as similar to malleable, happy batter is semen, the stain is a semen stain, cum is semen, cummerbund has 'cum' in the word, and Marten said happy batter and cummerbund in the comic linked to by the red period after "that".
-
Hm, I think I like Clare better without her glasses.
-
The comic the references co^H^Hare derived from (http://questionablecontent.net/1779).
-
Yes, I can imagine that "career day" would be interesting.
"Hi, I'm Veronica, Marten's mom, and I do modeling work."
-
The comic the references co^H^Hare derived from (http://questionablecontent.net/1779).
And I didn't even have to go back and look.
Of course, that was right before The Breakup Arc, so there's that.
-
Even without the internet, it seems unlikely that none of the kids or more talkative parents managed to find out, if only through the same means that Dora did diddle delightfully.
.
Your "gender fluid" is diluting my happy-batter. Damn it this is going to stain my cummerbund. :x
8-)
I.. what.. :psyduck:
Sorry, MDBS, I didn't even mean to do that. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1779)
It appears at least one person isn't an obsessive remember-er of details or an archive-diver. :P
*Is genuinely confused by all three of these comments, and Urbandictionary telling me that "happy-batter" means "cum" did not help. Also not finding anything on MDBS.*
Now I'm confused. MDBS is MillionDollarBeltSander. If you understand that it's a pearly string of semen puns, what is the confusion? Gender fluid is being taken as sex secretions, not as similar to malleable, happy batter is semen, the stain is a semen stain, cum is semen, cummerbund has 'cum' in the word, and Marten said happy batter and cummerbund in the comic linked to by the red period after "that".
You know what, I give up. I'm going to move to Vulcan and do stand up comedy there for awhile.
-
I find Marten's sudden ease about his mother's "work" VERY HARD to believe for some reason.
Why fake all that annoyance, why storm off everytime it gets explicit if you're so cool about it?
(I'm at work right now so my archive-fu is a bit hindered. But I can recall a couple of instances of Marten being VERY uneasy about Veronica's line of work °O)
-
Sometimes it's not when, it's how, methinks.
Then again, we do have to remember that he's from Cali. ;)
-
Marten's coolth has limits (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1048).
-
Seems he's lived with it all this time by having some well defined boundaries.
People keep pushing right up to those boundaries around him. He doesn't seem to handle that very well.
-
Is Claire's mother the hairdresser (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1983)?
-
Aren't all human relationships defined by boundaries?
It just happens that Martin's boundaries on THAT particular issue (mothersapornstar) make the Atlantic Wall look like your white haired granny's garden gate.
-
Is Claire's mother the hairdresser (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1983)?
I've wondered; but people generally seem uninterested in making that association.
-
Claire, who had been thinking about possible future make-outs with Marten, decides to call it off before ever telling him, on account of his family being too weird.
I don't think so.
Being Trans tends to broaden your mind.
I'm prim, priggish, prudish, private. Anyways... while I sound as if I should be in the DAR or "Concerned Women of America", I've been forced to mix with people outside my social circle. Wayyy outside my comfort zone.
Go into a new city, look for a specialist medical practice dealing with Trans issues... 9 times out of 10, it will be an AIDS clinic. Standard first questions - when did you last inject, how many johns do you service in a week. The problem is, that so many of their patients need to supply that information, and lives depend on it, that no matter how uncomfy you may feel, it's not unreasonable of them to make those assumptions. You get to mix with people "on the edge". You get to know them as people, not cyphers. Some match every nasty stereotype you can think of, but most don't, in fact, many are far better people than you meet in "polite society". It's educational.
You realise it's only because of the luck of the draw that you're a professional engineer, and not turning tricks.
Claire transitioned early. She may have been insulated from a lot of this, but odds are, she wasn't. The average age Trans kids are chucked out of home is 13 1/2. There are a lot of 12 year old kids going to gender clinics who are on the game. By the time Claire was 15, she may well have met some whose life trajectories were quite different from hers.
While I'm sure she embarrasses easy about her own feelings - when it comes to families, and industrial sex, I think she could probably tell Veronica some things that other patients have told her that would cause Veronica to freeze in shock.
Too Weird? Not even remotely.
I'm still prim, prudish etc. But that's me, and others differ. Why shouldn't they?
Remember too... "polite society" may go "tut tut" over Veronica's exotic career... but it's vanilla compared with Claire merely existing. How the heck could Claire see Veronica as "too weird" when she herself is viewed by society at large as far, far weirder than that. Even though she's really a bit old-fashioned and straight-arrow. Like me. She's probably used to being outside her comfort zone, she sees nothing wrong with that. Just different. Surprising, definitely. But not.. shocking. Not her style either.
-
[ ... ]
It just happens that Martin's boundaries on THAT particular issue (mothersapornstar) make the Atlantic Wall look like your white haired granny's garden gate.
That's all nice and well. But what about Marten's boundaries?
@jwhouk:
Being from Cali is of course an undeniable variable int his...
And yeah... I suppose most of Marten's reactions and the severity of them stem from situational factors. It was just a very sudden break for me between
an annoyed "Yes, mother." in one strip
and
"Nah, I'm used to it." in the next.
Also I've just noticed that using "Not really" at the start of two answers in such short succession sounds really weird.
@ZoeB:
Erm... nice read. Stopped me dead in the middle of my breakfast. :-D :psyduck:
-
On the topic of offensive terms, Cali is not okay with most people actually from California, any more than Frisco is okay for San Francisco. This may seem odd, since it's largely people from California who use it, but as I said on a different topic before, what's offensive and not offensive is very malleable and sometimes it's not worth the worry. I'm not one to care, but The More You Know.
On the topic of California, it's interesting the power some believe it has over Marten's mindset. This state is way more fractured than pop culture would have you believe. It's not the state, it's San Francisco specifically- not even Hollywood is as likely to be accepting.
*trimmed*
QCverse seems to be a lot more accepting than our verse, though of course that could be due to the limited perspective the characters we follow show us.
How does an Australian end up a DAR? I think they're lineage based.
And for a case of people being Not So Different, I may be a straight white male, with all the powers, privileges, and responsibilities that grants, but I greatly relate to part of your personal viewpoint. I don't mind what other people do unless it's destructive to others or themselves, and I'm okay around and accept people of very different lifestyles, but boy am I uninclined to try any of it myself, and my business is my own. It may be vanilla business, but it's mine and stay out. Whenever it rolls around, it's monogamy for me. Besides, it would be kind of stupid in a time investment sense to reject a friend just because she turns out to be a lesbian furry- then who else would I enjoy steampunk bands with?
-
And yeah... I suppose most of Marten's reactions and the severity of them stem from situational factors. It was just a very sudden break for me between
an annoyed "Yes, mother." in one strip
and
"Nah, I'm used to it." in the next.
Perhaps it's a case of, yes, it bothers him, but he's used to being bothered by it.
-
Now I'm confused. MDBS is MillionDollarBeltSander. If you understand that it's a pearly string of semen puns, what is the confusion? Gender fluid is being taken as sex secretions, not as similar to malleable, happy batter is semen, the stain is a semen stain, cum is semen, cummerbund has 'cum' in the word, and Marten said happy batter and cummerbund in the comic linked to by the red period after "that".
Didn't realize it was referring to him when you were directly addressing me and didn't mean to do what? It didn't help to clear up confusion to me because yes, while I realize there seems to be a lot of words for "cum" in there, I still don't know what the sentence is actually saying. Also didn't see the link-dot at all.
At least MDBS' comment makes more sense given that you were linking a comic.
-
Also I've just noticed that using "Not really" at the start of two answers in such short succession sounds really weird.
Not really
-
Aw man... and I didn't even get credits for the alliteration.
-
QCverse seems to be a lot more accepting than our verse, though of course that could be due to the limited perspective the characters we follow show us.
How does an Australian end up a DAR? I think they're lineage based.
I was attempting to translate, however clumsily into terms familiar in a US cultural context.
I might join the CWA - but here, that's not the Concerned Women of Australia, it's the Country Women's Association. While a lot of their social activities still involve making preserves, quilting, quite literally homespun yarns, many are cyber-savvy - running large farms is very hi-tech, even bleeding-edge in robotics and remote monitoring. Healthcare in remote areas pretty much has to involve remote diagnosis, sometimes telesurgery. They're my kind of gals. http://www.cwaa.org.au/about-us/
I don't mind what other people do unless it's destructive to others or themselves, and I'm okay around and accept people of very different lifestyles, but boy am I uninclined to try any of it myself
Pretty much the same for me. I think I'm just maybe a little more square.
-
Love the last panel. Both Claire's concern for Marten (bet she faced similar issues) and Marten's expression.
(Zoe hums "Harper Valley PTA" in background)
And I'm probably showing my age there, as many/most readers might not get the reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_Valley_PTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZPBUu7Fro
-
I was attempting to translate, however clumsily into terms familiar in a US cultural context.
It does suck trying to use terms and terminologies when you're on the other side of the planet. Even something as simple as mum/mom (it grates me a little to use the American spelling, but I still do mostly out of host localisation (no way am I slipping a 'z' in there, though, or retracting a 'u' from my colourful language :-D).
I don't mind what other people do unless it's destructive to others or themselves, and I'm okay around and accept people of very different lifestyles, but boy am I uninclined to try any of it myself
Pretty much the same for me. I think I'm just maybe a little more square.
Same here. What people get up to behind closed doors is their business. As Westrim addressed, so long as no-one is getting hurt (Wait. Bondage. Better make that "hurt outside their pre-defined consensual agreements" (I would have no effing clue how you work that out. Anyway, moving on)), or engaging in activities knowingly (key word being knowingly) spreading infections (it doesn't matter who you are or what you're into, STDs are nasty business), then I couldn't care less.
-
(I would have no effing clue how you work that out.
Communication and negotiation. At least in a healthy relationship and/or transaction. In what I consider an optimal situation, both parties care about each other and fulfilling their desires/needs, but also because they care about each other they aren't going to push their limits into the destructive range.
-
Bondage. Better make that "hurt outside their pre-defined consensual agreements" (I would have no effing clue how you work that out.[...])
Typically, by talking. Post-red-text-edit: de_la_Nae worded it better.
Minor pet peeve: Bondage does not necessarily equal bodily pain.
For example, rule 34 tells us that there is someone out there who is getting off on having boobs flaunted in his face while being bound up in such a way that he cannot touch them. Bondage? Yes. Pain? No.
On the other hand, spanking some buttcheeks will cause a bit of pain, but does not require bondage at all.
The more you know
-----*
-
For some reason I'm not really feeling this whole arc. I'm curious to see the ceremony itself but it's taking a while to get there. Also, I wonder what the other QC folks are up to back home.
-
I'd say it's still 50/50, though.
If I were a betting man, I'd say mom would be nigh estatic to find out about Claire. Dad would probably be okay with it, depending on how over-the-top Mom was being about it.
...You know something? I don't think I'm going to go any further. Guessing character reactions to Claire is almost too much like shipping.
-
Love the last panel. Both Claire's concern for Marten (bet she faced similar issues) and Marten's expression.
(Zoe hums "Harper Valley PTA" in background)
And I'm probably showing my age there, as many/most readers might not get the reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_Valley_PTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZPBUu7Fro
Barbara Eden's best acting role, IMNSHO.
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I find Marten's sudden ease about his mother's "work" VERY HARD to believe for some reason.
Why fake all that annoyance, why storm off everytime it gets explicit if you're so cool about it?
(I'm at work right now so my archive-fu is a bit hindered. But I can recall a couple of instances of Marten being VERY uneasy about Veronica's line of work °O)
I don't think he was faking the annoyance. He has always been pretty cool about it most of the time.... so long as he can remain ignorant of the details of what she's actually doing (ie. in that strip with Dora, he wants to ignore it but she continues the subject). I guess knowing that Jane is taking pictures up Veronica's skirt is pretty mundane in the scheme of things his mum does. If they were discussing a detailed photoshoot with how she was going to use specific props etc, he might have got up and left the room.
The only time I remember him storming off is when Veronica was flirting with Sven just after he and Dora broke up. (Which frankly, is completely understandable). Were there other times when he actually stormed off?
-
The comic the references co^H^Hare derived from (http://questionablecontent.net/1779).
I thought the link I put in my post would be enough, but I was too subtle with it. :-P
-
rule 34
Minor nitpick, it's rule 36.
-
I was going to argue that rule 36 follows from rule 34, but alas, that's not necessarily true. I have been out-nitpicked! :psyduck:
-
For some reason I'm not really feeling this whole arc. I'm curious to see the ceremony itself but it's taking a while to get there. Also, I wonder what the other QC folks are up to back home.
It reminds me of the space station arc - there was an interruption in that one, of course - but that also feels like Jeph stretching his abilities, putting his characters in new and unforeseen situations and locations. Nothing wrong with that. We'll be back at the COD before you know it.
-
And I'm probably showing my age there, as many/most readers might not get the reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_Valley_PTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZPBUu7Fro
I remember finding the sequel to that song - basically, she goes on about how although they were hypocrites, they at least didn't make excuses, and blames attitudes such as that expressed in the first song for all manner of evil. It's a bit disturbing, really, to see how thoroughly time got to her.
(Who the hell invited her on career day?)
-
It reminds me of the space station arc - there was an interruption in that one, of course - but that also feels like Jeph stretching his abilities, putting his characters in new and unforeseen situations and locations. Nothing wrong with that. We'll be back at the COD before you know it.
For sure, I understand that it's necesary to break the pattern and try new things in order to keep it interesting, and it has been nice getting to see more of Marten's family dynamics and Claire's reactions to it all, but still I'm starting to miss the rest of the cast. Maybe it wouldn't feel so strange (to me) if this story arc was intercut every now and again with stuff going on "back home". I think this all seems so foreign because Marten is pretty much the only one representing the "core" of the QC group right now, as Claire is still a very recent character and Marten's parents don't appear enough in the comics to feel like familiar faces.
-
Claire, who had been thinking about possible future make-outs with Marten, decides to call it off before ever telling him, on account of his family being too weird.
I don't think so.
Being Trans tends to broaden your mind.
...
Certainly it does. I didn't mean to suggest Claire hates on any of that stuff. I simply meant that after the turmoil of transition, she may want a slice of "normality" to act as an anchor for her life. That's what a great many transfolk want - to feel "normal". And surrounding yourself with "normal" things is a way to move towards that.
nb. the scare quotes around "normal".
-
I don't know how the family kept her profession secret after Marten used her bondage gear for Show&Tell.
-
Why is "recognize" in quotation marks?
-
I read that as "(tried very hard to pretend they didn't) recognize."
-
I think that it is because if people "recognized" her, they would not want it known that they "recognized" her, and would try to hide it as best they could.
Edit: Well, DSL said it better that I did.
-
Wouldn't we all have gotten that joke without the quotation marks?
-
I just read it as a tone of voice. Like when I do air-quotes. Especially given the eye-roll goin' on.
-
What ELSE are we going to see at this wedding?
That interesting uncle of Marten's. 2 (3.1%)
The flower girl. 1 (1.5%)
Broken glass. 0 (0%)
Veronica's OBJECTION! 1 (1.5%)
The Electric Slide. 2 (3.1%)
Drunk makeouts with some random dude. 1 (1.5%)
Or gal. 0 (0%)
Claire catches the boquet! 16 (24.6%)
Marten catches the garter! 4 (6.2%)
MOM catches the boquet! 7 (10.8%)
Oh, it's gonna get weird. 23 (35.4%)
...It got weird. 8 (12.3%)
Total Members Voted: 65
-
Anyone wanna bet he falls asleep doing the con prints?
-
Three internets that he is already asleep.
But he will probably wake up to post the comic, and then draw it.
-
Is that Dale in a suit in the first frame?
-
Oh my god. Panel 3.
It's Hannnelore's Grandma.
-
One is a sci-fi author, one is a character from another comic, two are YA authors, one is just some crazy old lady
The Character From Another Comic, I'm betting, is Keith the Mall Santa from GWS.
-
One is a sci-fi author.
I can't shake the feeling that the short guy is John Scalzi, so I'm going to go with that. I saw him once, last year, at a panel at the LA Times Book Festival. I wish I had ignored the warnings and recorded it, because he and the other panelists were hilarious, and I can't find anyone else's surreptitious recording on the internet.
-
One is a sci-fi author, one is a character from another comic, two are YA authors, one is just some crazy old lady
The Character From Another Comic, I'm betting, is that Mall Santa from GWS.
I just came in here to scream MALL SANTA!
-
I just came in here to scream MALL SANTA!
My brain immediately shortened that to 'manta', then decided his name was Ray. Boom: Manta Ray.
I love you, brain. :psyduck:
-
One is a sci-fi author, one is a character from another comic, two are YA authors, one is just some crazy old lady
I think the woman with short black hair is Holly Black - Jeph has mentioned that he's friends with her husband Theo Black before.
Drawing a blank on the red head. I can think of 2 red haired YA authors, but neither of them fit.
-
One is a sci-fi author, one is a character from another comic, two are YA authors, one is just some crazy old lady
I think the woman with short black hair is Holly Black - Jeph has mentioned that he's friends with her husband Theo Black before.
Drawing a blank on the red head. I can think of 2 red haired YA authors, but neither of them fit.
Definitely Holly & Theo!
My guess for the ginger is Libba Bray?
-
Is that Dale in a suit in the first frame?
I thought that was some relative of Dale or Amir (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1985). And the two-tone woman in the second panel was related to Raven in some way.
-
I think the short guy (sci-fi author) is Charles Stross.
-
Is Claire's mother the hairdresser (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1983)?
I've wondered; but people generally seem uninterested in making that association.
Wouldn't that be violating the "No Shipping" rule?
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Is Claire's mother the hairdresser (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1983)?
I've wondered; but people generally seem uninterested in making that association.
Wouldn't that be violating the "No Shipping" rule?
Eh, it's more of a... guideline. :-D
-
(a) Speculating about a mother/child relationship hardly meets the usual definition of shipping; (b) the forum inmates are currently stricter over shipping than I am (which is not necessarily a licence to kick over the traces)!
-
sci-fi author
I thought it was Howard Tayler, myself. Top panel, on the left.
-
That's it, I'm going in, BANZAAAAAAAAIIIII *tackles pwghodges while yelling something about shipping the hairdresser and Marigold's dad*
-
sci-fi author
I thought it was Howard Tayler, myself. Top panel, on the left.
Maybe, but last time I ran into him at a convention his head was a little shinier. Could be though, does look a little bit like him at least.
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I think the short guy (sci-fi author) is Charles Stross.
Ooh, he fits (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=charles+stross&hl=en&rlz=1C1KAFB_enAU513AU514&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=K7otUfybA-LpiAeD7oHIDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=505).
A possibility for the red haired woman (http://www.andreacremer.com/biography.html)?
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Don't recognize any of the guests - reminds me of some of the weddings I've been to.
Doing up wedding guest lists is "fun" in that you get to do the relationship calculus - "If I do/don't invite this person will they/someone else be offended?" which can lead to all sorts of odd relatives showing up.
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Calculus? Sounds more like a problem of graph theory to me :-D
-
So right now we have:
- Short Bald Guy is probably Charles Stoss (with a vote for Howard Tayler)
- Taller Black Dude w/Glasses - Keith the Mall Santa from GWS
- Brunette with the Grey streak in her hair - Holly Black (who Jeph knows)
- Redhead - Cassandra Clare (who is from Amherst and Jeph knows; one vote for Libby Bray)
- Old Lady - Unknown (though there's one vote for Hannelore's Grandma :-o )
-
Going by Twitter, the authors are Charles Stross, Holly Black, and Cassandra Clare. I will also toss my hat in for Mall Santa.
-
But I thought the epileptic tree fanon was that Raven is the Chessmaster, and therefore Marten and Henry are the same person.
So the old lady? It's not Hannelore's grandma, it's Hannelore. :eek:
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But I thought the epileptic tree fanon was that Raven is the Chessmaster, and therefore Marten and Henry are the same person.
So the old lady? It's not Hannelore's grandma, it's Hannelore. :eek:
She'll join in a duet with Henry at the reception. "I'm my own grandma!"
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Claire, who had been thinking about possible future make-outs with Marten, decides to call it off before ever telling him, on account of his family being too weird.
Remember too... "polite society" may go "tut tut" over Veronica's exotic career... but it's vanilla compared with Claire merely existing. How the heck could Claire see Veronica as "too weird" when she herself is viewed by society at large as far, far weirder than that. Even though she's really a bit old-fashioned and straight-arrow. Like me. She's probably used to being outside her comfort zone, she sees nothing wrong with that. Just different. Surprising, definitely. But not.. shocking. Not her style either.
I'm glad that's at least slightly reversed for me. Trans = "normal"... (who really is normal any way? I'm completely out of mine my mind, left for lunch one day and never came back) and perfectly acceptable because it's just another facet of the human condition, and as a species we should try to stop sucking about things like that.
On a comic note, any one else pulled a Martin at a family gathering? I do that every time my family gets together en masse.
"Garand! You look great! When did you get out of the Corps again?"
"Oh a few years back good to see you!"
*blather blather*
SO: "So who was that?"
Me: "Ahhhh.... I'll get back to you on that"
-
On a comic note, any one else pulled a Martin at a family gathering? I do that every time my family gets together en masse.
Every time, for my dad's side of the family anyway. My Mom's side is simpler unless all the extended family and friends of my grandmother and god knows who else are there too which thankfully doesn't happen too often.
-
We interrupt the WCDT for this special announcement:
M - A - R - T - E - N
Our protagonist spells his name with an "E", not an "I".
We suspect that it was a concession by his father towards Veronica, who wanted his middle name to be "Tiberius".
Yes, it's a minor issue, but it also grates on those of us who have seen the same mistake made over and over and over and over.
Please make a note of it.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled Comic Discussion...
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I didn't even notice that until I did a search for martin...
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To muddy the waters further, I used to know a guy named Martan.
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"One is a sci-fi author, one is a character from another comic, two are YA authors, and one is just a crazy old lady."
...nope, got nothin'.
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Look back further in the thread. They've all been pretty well identified.
Well, best guesses by the forum, but that's probably damn close!
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Marten is "Mårten", an old Scandinavian form for Martin. Although now Martin is more common and they're generally seen as separate names.
Even if Wikipedia brings you to.. well..
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Martes_martes_crop.jpg)
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I suspect that the "Old Lady" is, in fact, a relative of Jeph's.
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Bonus cameo: The bunny ears in the bottom right corner of the final panel belong to Max (of Sam and Max).
Also: Martin's suet es tris chec.
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I suspect that the "Old Lady" is, in fact, a relative of Jeph's.
I was gonna guess Anne Rice, but she isn't acting batshit insane.....
Bonus cameo: The bunny ears in the bottom right corner of the final panel belong to Max (of Sam and Max).
Uh, those are chairs.
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I too mistook them for bunny ears for like the first four hours the comic was up.
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Aaaaaand he decided not to wear a tie. I guess that was just ...
... knot happenin'!
*puts on sunglasses*
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAA-GHURLP!
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I too mistook them for bunny ears for like the first four hours the comic was up.
I assumed you knew they were chairs and were making a joke. I thought it was a good joke.
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I too think it's a good joke. I just don't think Loki was making it.
I still assume Blood-Tree knew they were chairs and was making a joke.
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To clear things up a bit: I really thought those were bunny ears for a few hours, then I looked at them and was like "Wait. Those are chairs. Whoops. Best not tell anyone what I thought."
I don't know what Blood-Tree thought.
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I am choosing to assume that they're chairs shaped like bunny ears, and then be sad that I didn't think of that for my own wedding.
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Well, at least they're not ROUS's :-D
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YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAA-GHURLP!
Oh, sorry - here, let me remove my hand from your throat...
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Well, at least they're not ROUS's :-D
I don't think they exist.
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@hanneloreEC did you know there are people who think fluoride is a government mind control conspiracy?
@EmilyAzuma there are also people who think my dad's space station is all being faked in a hollywood studio. People are strange.
@hanneloreEC people ARE strange.
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@hanneloreEC did you know there are people who think fluoride is a government mind control conspiracy?
@EmilyAzuma there are also people who think my dad's space station is all being faked in a hollywood studio. People are strange.
@hanneloreEC people ARE strange.
But the government wants to control our precious bodily fluids!
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See, this is about when Akima comes and tells me that I'm talking rubbish. :D
I have not done chemistry since high-school, but your explanation of isomerism looked OK to me. Should I be disturbed that I am apparently a presence looming over the forum? :-o
In the first panel, I can't stop noticing that the two bearded guys greeting Marten have mirrored jacket fastenings? Whether Jeph was drawing buttons or button-holes, one of those jackets is just wrong.
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Maybe one of them is wearing a woman's jacket.
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Or perhaps half the panel is flipped (http://www.baseballresearcher.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-pride-of-yankees-seeknay.html).
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Or perhaps half the panel is flipped (http://"http://www.baseballresearcher.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-pride-of-yankees-seeknay.html").
http://www."http.com//www.
That link ends up crazy broken. :psyduck:
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Oops. Forgot the forum software doesn't want quotes around URLs.
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The buttons only match up for the guy who isn't wearing a tuxedo. The buttons for a guy should be on the right side. This puts means the side on the left overlaps the right side. This makes it slightly more natural for a right handed person to reach into an inside left coat pocket, absolutely no idea if that is the intention.
And one other minor nitpick, it's more common for tuxes and dress jackets to only use one or two buttons. But, whatever, it is a wedding and everyone seems to be dressed pretty sharp. Close enough for me. :P
http://shop.nordstrom.com/c/tuxedo-shop?origin=topnav&cm_sp=Top%20Navigation-_-Men-_-Tuxedos%20&%20Formalwear
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In the first panel, I can't stop noticing that the two bearded guys greeting Marten have mirrored jacket fastenings? Whether Jeph was drawing buttons or button-holes, one of those jackets is just wrong.
Depending on the clothing designer, the buttoning may go either way. :P
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I sympathize with Marten. On just my dad's side alone, there are at minimum well over 100 relatives. Mom's side isn't as large, but I'm related to one of the larger extended families in my home area through her, so I meet several relatives I didn't know I had every year. I'm literally related to about half the people there in some way.
I actually almost hooked up with one of those unknown relatives during New Year's. We were talking and the subject somehow [fortunately] turned to our families. Turned out, her grandma was my grandma's cousin. Talk about dodging bullets...
-
That is definitely an ENTRANCE!
-
I actually almost hooked up with one of those unknown relatives during New Year's. We were talking and the subject somehow [fortunately] turned to our families. Turned out, her grandma was my grandma's cousin. Talk about dodging bullets...
That's a bit too close for comfort - second cousins.
COMIC: I was gonna say, it'd be funnier if Henry's line would have been, "Your noble steed left a trail of horse apples down the aisle."
Marten and Claire saw it coming, too - take a look at the second panel.
-
Aaaaaand he decided not to wear a tie. I guess that was just ...
... knot happenin'!
*puts on sunglasses*
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAA-GHURLP!
*drags body off to lab*
-
I actually almost hooked up with one of those unknown relatives during New Year's. We were talking and the subject somehow [fortunately] turned to our families. Turned out, her grandma was my grandma's cousin. Talk about dodging bullets...
That's a bit too close for comfort - second cousins.
COMIC: I was gonna say, it'd be funnier if Henry's line would have been, "Your noble steed left a trail of horse apples down the aisle."
Marten and Claire saw it coming, too - take a look at the second panel.
Yeah. My first reaction was, "are azeleas toxic to horses?"
After 2 minutes of internet searching, it appears they are.
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I sympathize with Marten. On just my dad's side alone, there are at minimum well over 100 relatives. Mom's side isn't as large, but I'm related to one of the larger extended families in my home area through her, so I meet several relatives I didn't know I had every year. I'm literally related to about half the people there in some way.
I actually almost hooked up with one of those unknown relatives during New Year's. We were talking and the subject somehow [fortunately] turned to our families. Turned out, her grandma was my grandma's cousin. Talk about dodging bullets...
Without going into too much detail... I can't date anyone from my hometown, because I'm related to everyone there. I didn't grow up in West Virginia, but it was close enough you can hear "Dueling Banjos" from across the river.
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NOBLE STEEEEEED!!!!
Aww, don't eat azaleas...they're not good for you, horsie...uh oh...
And poor Veronica has a "I've been outdone" look on her face.
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I think it'd be funny if the officiant was Marten's real aunt.
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I actually almost hooked up with one of those unknown relatives during New Year's. We were talking and the subject somehow [fortunately] turned to our families. Turned out, her grandma was my grandma's cousin. Talk about dodging bullets...
That's one of those taboos I just didn't pick up, and as such find your terminology bemusing. It's genetically unfounded, unless it's continually done generation after generation, and many other cultures don't have a hangup about it.
Less generally, it sounds like one or both of you may have experienced genetic sexual attraction. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction)
Should I be disturbed that I am apparently a presence looming over the forum? :-o
Better than being the creepy guy with one hand in his trenchcoat.
@hanneloreEC did you know there are people who think fluoride is a government mind control conspiracy?
@EmilyAzuma there are also people who think my dad's space station is all being faked in a hollywood studio. People are strange.
@hanneloreEC people ARE strange.
Methinks it would have been better if the response from Emily was "wait, it's not!?" if less character specific.
I normally don't double post, but when I do it's to prevent my comic response from my people responses.
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Jane: Aww!
Martenmom: Maximus?
Marten: What
Claire: Meh.
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"Is that one of the Mareas?" :-D
Oh well, it could have been worse, it could have been one of the Rohirrim.
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Oh dear I'm almost hoping for a terrifying Martenmom aside about horses and her work.
Also I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one saying "No pony no! Not the Azaleas! they're really bad for you!"
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Tip o' the hat to Jeph, from someone still not happy with his own efforts at drawing horses.
I am only sorry we cannot see the reaction of FutureLore Random Crazy Old Lady. That is her hat? Yesssss ...
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I sympathize with Marten. On just my dad's side alone, there are at minimum well over 100 relatives. Mom's side isn't as large, but I'm related to one of the larger extended families in my home area through her, so I meet several relatives I didn't know I had every year. I'm literally related to about half the people there in some way.
I actually almost hooked up with one of those unknown relatives during New Year's. We were talking and the subject somehow [fortunately] turned to our families. Turned out, her grandma was my grandma's cousin. Talk about dodging bullets...
Without going into too much detail... I can't date anyone from my hometown, because I'm related to everyone there. I didn't grow up in West Virginia, but it was close enough you can hear "Dueling Banjos" from across the river.
Yeah, growing up in a small town...everybody knows everybody, and you're related to everybody.
That's one of those taboos I just didn't pick up, and as such find your terminology bemusing. It's genetically unfounded, unless it's continually done generation after generation, and many other cultures don't have a hangup about it.
True, but getting intimate with someone I'm related to, even if it is a distant relation, is just not for me, I guess.
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one of those jackets is just wrong.
I'm surprised at you reinforcing such a blatantly sexist convention.
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See, this is about when Akima comes and tells me that I'm talking rubbish. :D
I have not done chemistry since high-school, but your explanation of isomerism looked OK to me.
I'm sure you mentioned that you're a material engineer or something. I wonder who that was, then...
EDIT: spelling fix
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MDBS, maybe?
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Akima, you have turned into a gray eminence.
Now if you die in a heroic battle and mystically get back from the dead, you shall be a white eminence.
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So Akima is one of the Maiar now?
Cool. . .
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If you strike her down, she will become more powerful than you imagine.
-
Aaaaaand he decided not to wear a tie. I guess that was just ...
... knot happenin'!
*puts on sunglasses*
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAA-GHURLP!
*drags body off to lab*
Lab? Sausage grinder's in the next room, don't be letting all that go to waste.
-
Aaaaaand he decided not to wear a tie. I guess that was just ...
... knot happenin'!
*puts on sunglasses*
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAA-GHURLP!
*drags body off to lab*
Lab? Sausage grinder's in the next room, don't be letting all that go to waste.
Don't let it all go to waist, either...
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Lab? Sausage grinder's in the next room, don't be letting all that go to waste.
I somehow read that as "sauce grinder" and got all confused... Long, hard day at work today. Looking forward to the weekend. Yep. :psyduck:
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See, this is about when Akima comes and tells me that I'm talking rubbish. :D
I have not done chemistry since high-school, but your explanation of isomerism looked OK to me.
I'm sure you mentioned that you're a meterial engineer or something. I wonder who that was, then...
While I'm quite certain I wasn't the person you were thinking of, I happen to be a degreed chemist. While I found your description of trans fats to be a bit kludgy, I thought your post was a very nice description of isomerism overall.
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I think it is funny how Marten and Claire have the exact same facial expressions here.
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Marten is pretty much mirroring his mother as well. I always thought people that sit with their arms dangling on their sides like that look like they're slouching, as if collapsing in their seats. And it still just looks weird and out of place to me.
Also, it would've been funnier if he'd ridden in on a brony PONY!
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Except that in the second panel his mom is smiling while he and Claire are not.
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Your Favorite Awkward Wedding Moment So Far?
Mom Trying to Pair Marten Up with Claire 2 (3.7%)
Claire blushing over Marten's Dad! 1 (1.9%)
"And he's got a really big-" I'LL BE AT THE BAR WITH MOM 2 (3.7%)
"Single malt older than you." YESSSSSSSSS 4 (7.4%)
Do as your mother says and drink it. 0 (0%)
Rehearsal dinners are like wedding purgatory. 0 (0%)
That wasn't so much a wedding as a three-ring circus. (Multiple ambulances by the end of the first dance) 0 (0%)
What was the name of that band we had play? Black something? Black Flag? (YOU'RE $#!++!N@ ME) 2 (3.7%)
Um, it's actually Claire. Funny you look more like a Clarice to me. 1 (1.9%)
Yes ma'am my name is Clarice from now on ma'am (You've got your dom-voice on, mom.) 3 (5.6%)
OH GOD I'M SO LONELY 5 (9.3%)
I used to have six pack! A SIX PACK! (Put it away, mom.) 2 (3.7%)
Lady and the Tramp, except with cocaine. 1 (1.9%)
$#!+! LUBE! I knew I forgot to pack something! 2 (3.7%)
I would've been fine but now you've got me THINKING about it and it's AWKWARD 5 (9.3%)
I know it's supposed to be a casual ceremony, but you should at least put on some pants. 3 (5.6%)
IT'S FINE IT'S PERFECT 10 (18.5%)
Jane and "Vicki" exchange insults. (Suddenly my taste in friends makes a lot more sense to me.) 3 (5.6%)
More material for my upskirt site. (Marten, be a good boy and look away.) 5 (9.3%)
It WAS pretty funny watching some of the other parents "recognize" her on Career Day... 3 (5.6%)
Total Members Voted: 54
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I've just realised how coincidentally timed is this arc. Tomorrow I head down to Oxfordshire for my sister's wedding. And now I'm going to be disappointed when she doesn't arrive on a white stallion.
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Get her a white stallion so you won't be disappointed.
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Wise words!
*whistles for Shadowfax*
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I head down to Oxfordshire
<FX:> Paul and Gareth wave out of their windows.
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I still assume Blood-Tree knew they were chairs and was making a joke.
I realise the moment has passed but, yes, it was a joke. :psyduck:
I'm slightly surprised no one has pointed out that this is all a clear reference to the wedding scene in Napoleon Dynamite. I predict that next there will be a super awesome wedding song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERCzN91JicA)
Also, is Dad Harder wearing Riding Brogues?
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Wise words!
*whistles for Shadowfax*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-up4ZojWQQ
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Riding a horse up the aisle sounds... messy.
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I can't believe they wore white.
Who said that?
:laugh:
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Riding a horse up the aisle sounds... messy.
It's ok, the horse is house-trained.
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I'm going to run pure oxygen through 'm and use 'm to slice up some scrap-metal.
Aaaaaand he decided not to wear a tie. I guess that was just ...
... knot happenin'!
*puts on sunglasses*
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAA-GHURLP!
*drags body off to lab*
Lab? Sausage grinder's in the next room, don't be letting all that go to waste.
-
Wait, was this a response to my welding question in another thread?
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Did anyone else think "Dora?! Wait no" at the woman with the yellow dress and purple hair?
I know Dora's hair is back to normal now, but still.
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Also, too long.
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Poor Dora. Once again missing the chance to be the flower girl.
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woo! Comic!
Claire's reaction is great!
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Ha, until the final panel I just assumed he wasn't showing the stuff that happened in between, but apparently there wasn't any.
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Well, a purpose of the ceremony is that the community witness the union. That function was carried out. I had figured the officiant was carrying a Bible. Maybe it was a clutch.
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Poor Claire bought a fancy dress for THIS?
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Well, the reception hasn't started.
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It did not go to waste. It has served its purposes of honoring the event and making Claire happy.
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"That's it? For crying out loud, somebody throw a pie!"
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The perfect wedding ceremony!
I wish I could get hired to officiate a ceremony like that one!
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This ceremony appears to dispose of all the fluff and get right to the point. I approve. This should become a thing.
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I'm with Claire. Civil weddings are a sham.
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Some people want pomp, some people don't want to be pompous. It's all a ring on the finger in the end.
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*resists urge to bring up own wedding-related story*
But yes, the best weddings are the ones with the least pomp and circumstance. And the most partying. :P
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My favorites are the ones with the most rum. Rum and terrible ACDC cover bands. *Le guilt, it overwhelms me*
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Even with "comic book time," i'm with Claire. Sometimes KISS isn't the solution.
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I'd be happy with a small ceremony. I mean, I don't need all the religious waffle (verses, prayers etc), but it'd be nice to have something better than "Oh, all right then, if you really must" (my memory for obscure Discworld references is weird sometimes)...
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Even with "comic book time," i'm with Claire. Sometimes KISS isn't the solution.
Oh I don't know... yes, I can understand Claire's reaction, until now she's been taking notes for her own wedding.
SHORT DIGRESSION: I may be over-thinking this, but I suspect Jeph has done far more behind the scenes research than you realise. Take a look at Claire's body language. She "vibes" far more Girl than the others, see demure position of arms etc. Not an act, just the way some are, the way some guys are all macho, strutting like peacocks and swinging their, um, carkeys.
She's a bit of an old-fashioned girl, like me, My bet is that her dreams involve a white knight on a steed, a white picket fence, and a family. OK, adopted, no biggie. She might even have a hope chest.
/DIGRESSION
This actual ceremony was much like ours, 31 years and 9 days ago. An outdoor wedding, but the day the 3-year drought broke, so it was conducted in the shelter of a closed souvenir kiosk's awning, and somewhat abbreviated due to gale-force winds. It sufficed.
Music planned (the cassette tape machine got soaked of course so no music)
Entry of the couple and gathering of the wedding party:
Ceremony
It was playing in my heart, anyway.
I'd like to think that this wedding had something similar. Words sometimes get in the way.
Dammit, can I be tearing up over a wedding in a comic? Maybe it's a generational thing, I note Veronica is too.
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Oh man, hope chests. My mother had one of those.
Then she had me at sixteen. I wonder if she gave it to my sister. . .
"Look, you've seen your brother. Don't screw it up!"
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Oh come on, Claire. Weddings are everything BUT only about the vows, promise and kiss.
Some might even say a wedding is a ceremony lasting a lifetime... but seriously, the party is just getting started.
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Does seem to be sort of a short ceremony for which to hire a horse. Maybe the horse had to be returned quickly to get back the deposit.
Although, as Akima hinted, getting the deposit might not be a problem.
... aw, Veronica is a sentimental horrid old ... softie. Unless she's focusing her eye laser, I dunno.
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I got the vibe the horse wasn't even planned but was a last-minute addition of Maurice's after what Veronica said about her and Henry's wedding. He wanted to knock it up a notch.
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CLAIRE: [Marvin Martian voice] "Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be a Earth-shattering Kaboom!"
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I got the vibe the horse wasn't even planned but was a last-minute addition of Maurice's after what Veronica said about her and Henry's wedding. He wanted to knock it up a notch.
Ah, I like that thinking. I've not been getting inside Maurice's head at all (haven't seen enough of him yet), and it sure hadn't occurred to me, but that sounds spot-on.
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I can't believe they wore white.
White is the colour of death and mourning. Weddings should be red!
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I vote cyan.
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Here in the US, it's traditional for the woman to wear a white dress, signifying her "purity" (read: virginity).
The nasty judgmental selectively-ultra-orthodox Judaism that we call Christianity here has all sorts of cultural memes about women not being allowed to wear white on their wedding day. Of course, most ignore those and wear white anyway.
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Here in the US, it's traditional for the woman to wear a white dress, signifying her "purity" (read: virginity).
The nasty judgmental selectively-ultra-orthodox Judaism that we call Christianity here has all sorts of cultural memes about women not being allowed to wear white on their wedding day. Of course, most ignore those and wear white anyway.
And it's usually only commented upon by spiteful in-laws and jealous friends -- that's my experience across about a dozen weddings I've attended as a guest. Frankly I find it hilarious that certain people can't put themselves aside for a few hours and enjoy the show.
Now I wasn't there, but I saw the video taken by friends (and we're talking "old fashion VHS") of someone standing up during a friends wedding and objecting "I can't BELIEVE you wore WHITE considering how many men you slept with before sinking your hooks into Bob!" The bride retorted "Try before you buy -- otherwise you end up with someone like Jim!" She then turned her back and the wedding went on. You would have had to seen the video, but I assure you the burnage was over 9,000. :D
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Yes, I imagine there was a smell of burnt flesh after that exchange. . .
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There'd have been applause for the bride if my wife or I had been there...
-
Your Favorite Awkward Wedding Moment So Far?
Mom Trying to Pair Marten Up with Claire 4 (6.3%)
Claire blushing over Marten's Dad! 2 (3.1%)
"And he's got a really big-" I'LL BE AT THE BAR WITH MOM 2 (3.1%)
"Single malt older than you." YESSSSSSSSS 4 (6.3%)
Do as your mother says and drink it. 0 (0%)
Rehearsal dinners are like wedding purgatory. 0 (0%)
That wasn't so much a wedding as a three-ring circus. (Multiple ambulances by the end of the first dance) 0 (0%)
What was the name of that band we had play? Black something? Black Flag? (YOU'RE $#!++!N@ ME) 3 (4.7%)
Um, it's actually Claire. Funny you look more like a Clarice to me. 1 (1.6%)
Yes ma'am my name is Clarice from now on ma'am (You've got your dom-voice on, mom.) 3 (4.7%)
OH GOD I'M SO LONELY 6 (9.4%)
I used to have six pack! A SIX PACK! (Put it away, mom.) 2 (3.1%)
Lady and the Tramp, except with cocaine. 2 (3.1%)
$#!+! LUBE! I knew I forgot to pack something! 2 (3.1%)
I would've been fine but now you've got me THINKING about it and it's AWKWARD 5 (7.8%)
I know it's supposed to be a casual ceremony, but you should at least put on some pants. 3 (4.7%)
IT'S FINE IT'S PERFECT 10 (15.6%)
Jane and "Vicki" exchange insults. (Suddenly my taste in friends makes a lot more sense to me.) 5 (7.8%)
More material for my upskirt site. (Marten, be a good boy and look away.) 7 (10.9%)
It WAS pretty funny watching some of the other parents "recognize" her on Career Day... 3 (4.7%)
Total Members Voted: 64
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"Mawwige. Mawwige is what bwings us togevver today."
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As someone who has never been to a wedding, what does a (US-American) wedding traditionally entail?
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I think I shall emulate Sir Not Appearing In This Movie!! *Gallops off into the sunset.*
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I've only been to three, one of which was my own and none of which were traditional. One was "pagan" handfasting. One was just visiting justice of the peace and I was one of the witnesses. Mine wasn't legally recognized (no same-sex marriage in that state) but involved each of us playing a song for each other (I did a solo acoustic guitar rendition of Nick Cave's "Into My Arms" and she did an original song with her band) and we exchanged vows that we wrote ourselves in front of her priest. After the vows, we did the recessional and everyone adjourned to the reception where much booze was shared.
If movies are anything to go by, traditional weddings involve a processional where the bridesmaids and groomsmen walk in first in pairs, then the groom, then the bride last to the tune of the traditional "Here Comes the Bride". There is often a prayer if it is a religious ceremony, often a song or two is sung by a friend or relative of the couple, then the one officiating it has them repeat the vows and exchange rings followed by a "By the power invested in me by (insert government body or deity here), I now pronounce you man and wife. You may now kiss the bride." Then there is a recessional song played as the newly married couple exits the way they entered except they do so together and everyone stands as they go. Then the bridesmaids and groomsmen exit, then everyone else goes too.
How often it actually matches up with that, I have no idea.
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Weddings come in all shapes and sizes in the US. Most of my family is Catholic, so I've been to many Catholic weddings, which are basically a Mass with a wedding ceremony spliced into the middle of it. On the other end of the scale (for religious ceremonies), Southern Baptists tend to have you in and out of the church in ten minutes.
Non-religious services can range from the very elaborate to the extremely simple. For example of an extraordinarily simple one, while my wife and I were at the courthouse to get our marriage license, there was a couple getting married by a justice of the peace in the room next door. They needed a couple of witnesses, so we got recruited. Never met the people before, haven't seen them since, but our signatures are on their marriage certificate. They seemed happy, so it's all good.
As for wearing white: My wife had been married before and five months pregnant on our wedding day, and she still wore a white dress. Nobody cared except my Dad, and my sisters all ganged up on him and made him behave.
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The traditional entrance music for the bride is the Bridal Chorus, "Treulich geführt", from Wagner's opera Lohengrin. The traditional recessional, departure, music is Mendelssohn's "Wedding March" part of A Midsummer Night's Dream. I've liked the Mendelssohn since I was a teenager. I was playing it one day when my mother and stepfather had been arguing, and my stepfather snapped at me when the Wedding March music filled the house. He thought I'd played it deliberately. I don't think so.
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As someone who has never been to a wedding, what does a (US-American) wedding traditionally entail?
Weddings come in all shapes and sizes ranging from elaborate rituals involving religion, to simply appearing before an official, signing papers in front of witnesses and that's it.
There is no right way or wrong way, it depends on the parties involved. Some folks want a huge production, others do not. The ones I've been to have been a good blending of religious function and celebration.
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The style that's a cultural cliche, and still widely used, is a ceremony in a church with the groom's people on one side of the aisle, the bride's on the other. A young child scatters flowers down the aisle. Their religious denomination's standard wedding liturgy is read, the groom puts a ring on the bride, and their priest/pastor/minister/whatever pronounces them married.
Everything upthread that's been said about diversity is true.
Which brings up a book, "How to be a Perfect Stranger", which describes in detail how someone from another culture should attend a different culture or religion's ceremonies. "Should" in this context means being respectful, but without accidentally doing something that identifies with a religion other than the attendee's own. It also warns of possible surprises.
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The officiant may also say a few words in the sense of a short sermon. Both of my weddings were entirely traditional, including the music I cited above, except that at my second, we added our own readings.
Jewish and Christian weddings in my experience are witnessed are traditionally witnessed by respectfully quiet guests, as in today's comic. The two Hindu weddings I attended in India were witnessed, but by guests who sat, stood, chatted, while the ceremony continued somewhat ignored. The same thing happened at another religious ceremony, a coming-of-age "thread" ceremony of a young boy.
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As someone who occasionally performs weddings, I can say that the law (in my state) requires that the wedding be witnessed by two people and that there must be some sort of ceremony that they can describe if asked to at a later date.
I insist that a wedding I perform must have at least three components: statement of purpose, consent, and pronouncement.
That is, I will start by saying what we're all doing there, if for no other reason then to make sure that everyone knows we've started, and so that the witnesses can't claim that they didn't know it was a wedding. I will ask both parties if they agree to be married. This may seem silly in this day and age, but there was a time when people were fairly regularly forced to get married against their will, and I think we need to still check in. And then I need to pronounce them married.
I usually strongly urge people to take some sort of vow, but it's not strictly necessary.
Everything else, processionals, prayers, readings, exchanges of rings, kissing, breaking glass, lighting candles, tying hands, jumping brooms or anything else you can invent is all purely optional.
ETA: what I came in to say, and forgot about, is that by my guidelines above, the only thing that seemed missing to me as consent of the two grooms, though perhaps that's implicit in the ring exchange.
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OK, there was an exchange. I only saw Henry putting on Maurice's ring, and missed that Henry had one on in the third panel (not in the second).
So there are some things we didn't see. Perhaps some words said. Clearly, though, not enough for Claire.
I remember a friend's wedding in the mid 80's, her dress was a victorianesque fantasy of ruffles, pearls, beadwork, etc, etc. with a train that was longer than she was tall.
As she came down the aisle, one of the other groomsmen whispered in my ear, "Look! It's the Queen Mary under full sail!"
Hard to keep a straight face. Fortunately, no one was looking at me...
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OK, there was an exchange. I only saw Henry putting on Maurice's ring, and missed that Henry had one on in the third panel (not in the second).
So there are some things we didn't see. Perhaps some words said. Clearly, though, not enough for Claire.
I'm glad you pointed this out, because that was what was confusing me. I'm all for short weddings, mind, (I was raised Catholic and attended many, MANY hour-long wedding ceremonies), but you gotta at least have some vows for it to feel like a proper wedding (to me, anyway).
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So... Maurice's surname is Duplantier...
A reference perhaps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Duplantier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Duplantier)
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Gojira kicks ass.
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Assume Maurice does likewise.
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As an aside, today, 1 March 2013, is apparantly National Butt Day. Or so my Facebook friends tell me. Pintsize must be partying hard.
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Assume Maurice does likewise.
I dunno, depends on whether he's a pitcher or a catcher I guess. :-P
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Lucky you turned the other cheek. Almost had an outbreak.
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... You would have had to seen the video, but I assure you the burnage was over 9,000. :D
Please, PLEASE tell me it's been many years, and Bob and his battle-ready bride are still happily together ...
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... You would have had to seen the video, but I assure you the burnage was over 9,000. :D
Please, PLEASE tell me it's been many years, and Bob and his battle-ready bride are still happily together ...
Bob and Battle-Britches are still married, and she is still like a severe thunderstorm of wit: One good wisecrack and flames everywhere.
We're all good friends. I knew her for quite awhile before the wedding, and I knew Bob as well. She's one of those people that you have to meet at least once -- even if she's having an off day she's still an absolute riot to talk with.
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Now I wasn't there, but I saw the video taken by friends (and we're talking "old fashion VHS") of someone standing up during a friends wedding and objecting "I can't BELIEVE you wore WHITE considering how many men you slept with before sinking your hooks into Bob!" The bride retorted "Try before you buy -- otherwise you end up with someone like Jim!" She then turned her back and the wedding went on.
I'd love to share that story with FB friends, but I suppose I'd have to change the names.
I saw this (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=479379578795183) obnoxious guest on FB today and thought back to your description.
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Now I wasn't there, but I saw the video taken by friends (and we're talking "old fashion VHS") of someone standing up during a friends wedding and objecting "I can't BELIEVE you wore WHITE considering how many men you slept with before sinking your hooks into Bob!" The bride retorted "Try before you buy -- otherwise you end up with someone like Jim!" She then turned her back and the wedding went on.
I'd love to share that story with FB friends, but I suppose I'd have to change the names.
I saw this (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=479379578795183) obnoxious guest on FB today and thought back to your description.
Bob And Battle-Britches do not post under those names. :-D
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Yes Claire, that's it
Nice, simple and no frippery and extraneous fluff.
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Here in the US, it's traditional for the woman to wear a white dress, signifying her "purity" (read: virginity).
The nasty judgmental selectively-ultra-orthodox Judaism that we call Christianity here has all sorts of cultural memes about women not being allowed to wear white on their wedding day. Of course, most ignore those and wear white anyway.
As I see it, wearing white is something less than 5% of the marrying public (i.e. virgins) earn. When the rest of the population does it, it dilutes the value.
Wedding receptions are always the worst! Bad music and small talk with strangers. I might as well put a bucket on my head and sit in the corner.
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YMMV, I love the reception. It's just a fancy party.
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Geez, I love weddings too but I haven't gone to any lately. I gotta say, most funerals are pleasant meet-and-greets as well. I guess it speaks to my age.
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I've been to what, over a dozen weddings?
Mostly before I was 10. I used to be in ruff and surplice in a (High Church) Church of England choir.
6d for weekly practice, 1s for Sunday service, 2/6d for weddings CA-CHING! and the Jackpot, 5s for Funerals.
We made a lot more money on the weddings than anything else. In terms of purchasing power, a "Zoom" ice-cream was 6d. Call it $2.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpmhpKTOFSSTN1MdS-85d0l3LkG6Qdatii23-cR2tEbWik_vq1Gw)(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2548/3950929190_2e07221615_z.jpg)
Service was almost indistinguishable from a Catholic Mass, just a bit more formal. Pre-Vatican-II Catholic, but without the Pope, basically. Not as much incense, more hymns and responses. Usually over in 2 hours.
I've never been to a Buddhist wedding, but I have been to a Buddhist funeral. Almost a party-like atmosphere, only solemn when the monks chanted.
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Man, now I want Buddhist monks chanting at my funeral. That sounds AWESOME!
(Also probably wouldn't help my chances of not being reborn as a frog or a leperous goat.)
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Including or not including them chopping up your corpse and feeding it to the vultures, then grinding up the bones so the vultures can snack on those as well?
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No no, the lawyers can eat at the buffet like everyone else.
Lawyers are people too now, remember?
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I wasn't kidding though. (http://imgur.com/a/ddTMd)
DON'T CLICK IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH OR ARE CURRENTLY EATING.
you have been warned.
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"So Larry, did you get that Anderson brief in today?"
"Yeah, and I found an ambulance on the way to the funeral, so I've got the firm some work for the next couple of days too. Mind passing some of the rump?"
(The keyboard, take it away from me NOW)
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I wasn't kidding though. (http://imgur.com/a/ddTMd)
Ah, good ol' Sky Burials. Wonderfully pragmatic.
This part was also quite adorable. (http://i.imgur.com/mRb4y.jpg) Looked like he was standing on the vulture's back!
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Just compost me with the eggshells and coffee grounds.
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I dunno, I could go the classic burn-me-in-a-boat with my most treasured belongings thing.
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I've thought of cremation, but the whole carbon footprint thing - burning the body takes a lot of fuel.
Definitely don't want the whole preservative-filled-bury-me-in-an-impermeable-box thing, though. I'd rather go back to the earth effectively and efficiently. Maybe a green burial (no embalming, recycled cardboard coffin). But I definitely want a funeral service, preferably with a dixieland band playing the happy can't-keep-your-feet-still music on the way to the party wake.
After all, it'll be the last party I get to throw. It should be memorable.
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Bagpipes for me. It's just not a funeral unless there are pipes.
And as for my body, take what you can transplant and burn the rest.
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Bagpipes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKBI7DOLHA)
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Something that kept me going before Transition was the thought of cryonic neurosuspension.
I still think it's worth a punt.
Let me explain - if the damaged neural template can be scanned, or repaired (I think it would be easier to make a new one),then making the rest of the body would be relatively easy.
One that's a little less mixed this time. One that could give birth.
It's not so important to me now, I'm pretty happy with the body I have. But before.... the thought helped keep me alive.
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Funnily enough my dad was talking the other day about something he'd heard on the radio: aquamation, or water cremation (read the PDF here (http://www.aquamationindustries.com/Aquamation%20-%20An%20Introduction.pdf)).
Like my dad, I like the idea of cremation (and organ donations (what would I need them for when I'm dead?)), and the ashes scattered (dad wants to be scattered over the Royal National Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_National_Park). Myself... dunno. Mountains? Ocean? Whatever, so long as there's an awesome view for everyone involved).
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I've thought of cremation, but the whole carbon footprint thing - burning the body takes a lot of fuel.
Definitely don't want the whole preservative-filled-bury-me-in-an-impermeable-box thing, though. I'd rather go back to the earth effectively and efficiently. Maybe a green burial (no embalming, recycled cardboard coffin). But I definitely want a funeral service, preferably with a dixieland band playing the happy can't-keep-your-feet-still music on the way to the party wake.
After all, it'll be the last party I get to throw. It should be memorable.
Or how to put the Fun in funeral.
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Before my mom died in AZ in 1995, she wanted her ashes scattered in the St. Clair River between Michigan and Ontario, a place she'd spent a lot of happy times in her teens, including with a boyfriend who summered on the Canadian side. In the decade before her death, she, my wife, daughter and I often went to a restaurant on the river for Sunday brunch. It featured a Dixieland trio. Our daughter had a talk with the musicians a few months after the death, and we returned a few weeks later with friends, went out on the dock when the trio took a break. They played "Saints" while I spread the ashes. In a sudden breeze, some landed on the one docked boat, a very large cabin cruiser. A guy on the boat asked in a puzzled voice, "Were those ashes?" All innocence, I said, "Oh, no."
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I've thought of cremation, but the whole carbon footprint thing - burning the body takes a lot of fuel.
Marten's idea of a volcano would fix that.
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See, I usually wouldn't mind cremation much, but I don't like the idea of someone being able to hold my ashes in their possession - and therefore by extension me.
So it's a wood casket for me, I guess.
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When I die, I hope it's really difficult and expensive to recover my body -- and that the coverage on the news lasts for days.
"NASA and the Canadian Air Force have been called in the recover the body of local engineer Brian Richard who met his demise earlier this week and is now lodged atop the cellphone tower on the tallest building in the City -- experts believe recovery operations will exceed $25 million dollars... and will be funded entirely by the tax payers."
Yeah... I'm an asshole. :-D
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The inventor of the legendary 'gunpowder diet' died yesterday. He leaves a wife, two children and a large crater where the Crematorium used to be.
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When I die, I hope it's really difficult and expensive to recover my body -- and that the coverage on the news lasts for days.
"NASA and the Canadian Air Force have been called in the recover the body of local engineer Brian Richard who met his demise earlier this week and is now lodged atop the cellphone tower on the tallest building in the City -- experts believe recovery operations will exceed $25 million dollars... and will be funded entirely by the tax payers."
Yeah... I'm an asshole. :-D
"If it weren't for the loss of signal throughout the city, we'd leave the body for the vultures" an official was heard to say.
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The Parsis place their dead in "Towers of Silence." Soon after I arrived in Bombay in late 1966, I attended a Republic Day party on Malabar in the city, within sight of that city's tower (s). No sighting of vultures, though this (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VEFwWvYzl1c/TQoITjBRUTI/AAAAAAAABO4/f6T2zyArySc/s1600/Parsee%2BTower%2Bof%2BSilence%25252C%2BBombay%2BBourne%2Band%2BShepherd%25252C%2Bc.1880.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lovehatesmisery.blogspot.com/2010/12/towers-of-silence.html&h=296&w=400&sz=63&tbnid=hUSBPHAGQ6820M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__r3gtD5blJDgJk0oypn3hC4fNMcs=&docid=v1aSq9OWaDGXWM&sa=X&ei=SJozUYHBA4_ligLm7YHQCQ&ved=0CEcQ9QEwAw&dur=12245) 1880 photo shows them ... waiting. My memory is that the structure was much taller.
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When I die, I hope it's really difficult and expensive to recover my body -- and that the coverage on the news lasts for days.
"NASA and the Canadian Air Force have been called in the recover the body of local engineer Brian Richard who met his demise earlier this week and is now lodged atop the cellphone tower on the tallest building in the City -- experts believe recovery operations will exceed $25 million dollars... and will be funded entirely by the tax payers."
Yeah... I'm an asshole. :-D
"If it weren't for the loss of signal throughout the city, we'd leave the body for the vultures" an official was heard to say.
Actually Sprint customers reported FINALLY getting more than two bars -- then the network crashed because it couldn't handle more than five calls at once.
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I've never been to a Buddhist wedding
Traditionally, there is no such thing, because marriage is regarded purely as a civil, secular institution. Buddhist monks and nuns would not normally officiate at weddings, but it is common to obtain a blessing at your local temple afterwards. However, in countries with a cultural tradition of weddings being performed in a religious context, some Buddhists do seek an "all in one" ceremony combining legal marriage with religious blessing, and some Mahayana "clergy"* have become civil marriage celebrants in order to offer this service. Theravada "clergy"* will not, or at least I have not heard of their doing so, as traditionally it is contrary to their rules of conduct.
*English is difficult here. Buddhism does not really have the equivalent of a Christian priest. Monk or nun are closer, but they are specifically gendered terms which are not appropriate. Monastic is sometimes used as a noun to avoid the gender problem, but it sounds a little clumsy.
Ordination of women in Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women_in_Buddhism) is a complex issue. The Lord Buddha established the female sangha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangha) (I am using the word in its original, specifically monastic sense) within just a few years of the male, and it flourished for centuries. In the Theravada tradition it appears to have died out around the time of the European Middle Ages, but in the Mahayana tradition of China, Korea and Japan, the ordination of women continued unbroken to the present day.
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*English is difficult here. Buddhism does not really have the equivalent of a Christian priest. Monk or nun are closer, but they are specifically gendered terms which are not appropriate. Monastic is sometimes used as a noun to avoid the gender problem, but it sounds a little clumsy.
For what it's worth most people ended up referring to the Hofgoðar et al. as "Temple Priests" too. Was inappropriate for good Christian scholars to pay too much attention to the heathens. :-D
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I'll be honest - I've pretty much only heard Buddhist monastics referred to as "monks," regardless of sex. I don't think I've ever heard the term "Buddhist nun" before this thread.
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Bob and Battle-Britches are still married, and she is still like a severe thunderstorm of wit: One good wisecrack and flames everywhere.
We're all good friends. I knew her for quite awhile before the wedding, and I knew Bob as well. She's one of those people that you have to meet at least once -- even if she's having an off day she's still an absolute riot to talk with.
I quoted the anecdote to FB friends, and a couple wanted to know if there were repercussions. Did the objector remain quiet through the remainder of the ceremony? Slink out of the church? Avoid the reception? Or hadn't she been invited?