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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: westrim on 09 Jun 2013, 04:06

Title: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 09 Jun 2013, 04:06
Okay, here's a thread and a poll. Some of them I had scifi references in mind for, but decided that was distracting.


Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 09 Jun 2013, 04:07
Does a 10-foot LASER pole count? (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 09 Jun 2013, 04:12
Why is "spathe hammer" not an option?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ThomasEll on 09 Jun 2013, 04:16
You missed off battle spatula  :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 09 Jun 2013, 04:43
Fine, I went with it and put the weapons IN SPACE, and added the above suggestions. Blame Loki.  8-)

I thought about doing something regarding Sam, but nothing had many options. I wonder if we'll see her dad's response to her going to the coffee shop. By the way, my opinion about her truthiness is that she did nothing wrong. She said she was visiting friends, and Faye at least definitely qualifies (Dora is Doraing the relationship as usual). He knows shes with friends, but not where those friends are (thus her "sort of"), and that seems to be par for the course.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 09 Jun 2013, 05:14
If you add Cael Hammer, then I'd be willing to vote too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 09 Jun 2013, 05:16
What's "Warhammer 40k" supposed to mean? That's a game, not a weapon. If you put in "Chainsword" instead though…
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 09 Jun 2013, 05:18
It's Westrim's thread, we're just along for the ride.

Whining and complaining "are we there yet?" and poking the other passengers the entire way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 09 Jun 2013, 05:39
The correct answer is, and always will be:
"WWWAAAAAAAAGGGGGH!!!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 09 Jun 2013, 10:10
What's "Warhammer 40k" supposed to mean? That's a game, not a weapon. If you put in "Chainsword" instead though…

I believe he's referring to the hammer that features prominently on the front cover of the main rule book.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheEvilDog on 09 Jun 2013, 10:25
It could also be a Thunder Hammer...or a Power Mace/Hammer.

A Daemonhammer always works too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Jun 2013, 10:48
Ahahahahahah! The Spear of Destiny! Now to gather my armies for we are invincible!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 09 Jun 2013, 11:02
If you add Cael Hammer, then I'd be willing to vote too.
Hmm, having just used it, I find that I'd rather use an Army Carbine than a Cael Hammer. I'd compromise for a Breakers' Bow.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jun 2013, 12:34
Practical education and confidence building under the supervision of more-or-less adult friends is something a parent should prefer over whatever the hell Sam would get up to with her 12-year-old friends.

I bet they could build a wicked trebuchet.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 09 Jun 2013, 12:56
Practical education and confidence building under the supervision of more-or-less adult friends is something a parent should prefer over whatever the hell Sam would get up to with her 12-year-old friends.
/me thinks: "IICIH sounds pretty reasonable."
Quote
I bet they could build a wicked trebuchet.

/me thinks: ...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Redball on 09 Jun 2013, 12:56
And a piano to fling, and a field to fling it in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 09 Jun 2013, 14:24
The correct answer is, and always will be:
"WWWAAAAAAAAGGGGGH!!!"

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 09 Jun 2013, 15:51
How bout a metal foot (to the mantenna?)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 09 Jun 2013, 18:33
War ladle isn't an option?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: henri bemis on 09 Jun 2013, 23:38
I will forever love the battle spatula. 

Watching the livestream right now, for the first time, and it's enchanting.  (also, I've had adult beverages, but it IS enchanting!  I love watching people draw).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: sha'mad conde on 10 Jun 2013, 00:15
I had to Google the word "fib." Is that an Eastern US word? It doesn't exist out here...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 00:44
Now that you mention it, I don't think I've heard it since moving out West.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 10 Jun 2013, 01:12
Comic's up!


It introduces an interesting concept.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Jun 2013, 01:13
No Claire, your are not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 01:17
Jeph had said earlier that AnthroPCs don't "do religion", so he must have meant they don't do doctrine and ritual.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 10 Jun 2013, 01:21
It is my experience that creators of puns are aware that they are bad, but hoping for at least a groan of acknowledgement. The silent treatment Claire keeps getting is painful to watch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 10 Jun 2013, 01:21
I dunno, "distributed devotion" sounds like a ritual to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 01:31
It is fascinating that the sense of mystery humans feel about how they came to be is also felt by beings who know how they were invented and by whom.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 10 Jun 2013, 01:35
well, I thought it was funny




Jeph had said earlier that AnthroPCs don't "do religion", so he must have meant they don't do doctrine and ritual.
or he changed his mind
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jun 2013, 01:38
The alternative to distributed devotion might have been a devotion server, I suppose.  Or maybe there are devotion control servers to coordinate the distributed devotions by running a devotion balancing algorithm.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 10 Jun 2013, 01:41
Yesh... just stop Claire, please. <3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 10 Jun 2013, 01:42
Distributed devotion orchestration service?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 10 Jun 2013, 01:43
No Claire, your are not.

I think she is at least in this case.

If robots decide to picket something for religious reasons, is that a distributed devotion attack?

 Warning - while you were typing 2 new prayers have arrived in this thread. You may wish to review your sign of devotion to the comic.
Nah, thanks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vurogj on 10 Jun 2013, 02:14
I loved today's ClairePun (tm), and would totally have made it myself. It feels to me like that "laugh dammit" pose might be affecting the reception of her puns though. Just drop the pun like it wasn't even there, then wait...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ChaoSera on 10 Jun 2013, 02:39
Jeph had said earlier that AnthroPCs don't "do religion", so he must have meant they don't do doctrine and ritual.
That's one option. The other one, which I think is true, is he just forgot he wrote that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CompSarge on 10 Jun 2013, 02:51
I must have an awful (read: awesome) sense of humor, 'cuz Claire cracks me up everytime. Maybe it's the beat face she makes; I almost always hear Eric Idle's "eh, eh? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I)" whenever she makes it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Adjamemnon on 10 Jun 2013, 03:03
I had to Google the word "fib." Is that an Eastern US word? It doesn't exist out here...

Not that far east, though; Colorado/Wyoming person here and I've heard the term.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 10 Jun 2013, 03:03
Wait, people in the US don't know what "fib" means?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 10 Jun 2013, 03:12
I thought Claire's bon mot was rather good.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: deathwing107 on 10 Jun 2013, 03:19
They were talking about robot religion in this comic (best way I could put it). The first thing this made me think of was the line Legion says in Mass Effect 2 when you first talk to him. He asks Sheepard "Does this unit have a soul."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 10 Jun 2013, 04:11
Well, I think Claire's hilarious. And adorable. But Vurogj is right: Proper deployment of a pun is to act as though it wasn't even there, and wait for folks to realize it after the fact. Delayed gratification, and all that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jun 2013, 04:12
Jeph had said earlier that AnthroPCs don't "do religion", so he must have meant they don't do doctrine and ritual.

It's also possible that this is a new development. The Singularity is a recent event in the QCverse, and AI society may be evolving rapidly. So this may be something that has begun since the last time the subject was addressed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 10 Jun 2013, 04:16
Her puns are clever - she needs to work on her delivery...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 04:34
Their reaction (looking at her silently, then moving on without any acknowledgement) strikes me as needlessly mean. And yet it's not the first time it's happened, even if it always seems out of character for most of the people who do it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 10 Jun 2013, 04:38
Generally, I find that the best way to deliver puns, or similar forms of humour is to deliver the line absolutely straight, and then move on without going for acknowledgement.

That of course and not trying to fit them in as aften as possible in conversations.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 04:49
One of the most interesting things in the comic, I think, is how Momo says that some AIs "choose" to believe. What a strange concept.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 10 Jun 2013, 04:51
Maybe it's the beat face she makes; I almost always hear Eric Idle's "eh, eh? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I)" whenever she makes it.
That face usually gets me laughing more than the actual pun. I love it :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lostdreams on 10 Jun 2013, 05:12
Given Emily's reaction last time, I was expecting a segue.

edit for full idea

Panel 1:  From distance, a large cluster of what appears to be tiny aircraft are seen amongst clouds.

Panel 2:  The heads of Pintsize, Winslow, and Momo in the foreground with propellers, jets, derigible style balloons, airfoils, etc. lounging about in the clouds.  Other bot heads float in the background and the Roombas are seen blasting by.  Momo and Winslow have a discussion about faith.

Panel 3:  Momo and Winslow continue their discussion while Pintsize is now seen calibrating a telescope.

Panel 4:  Momo turns to ask Pintsize if he has found anything. (implying the telescope)

Panel 5:  Pintsize infoms her of the improved view of nude beaches from their current altitude (as he turns the now calibrated telescope downward)

This should totally be a thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 10 Jun 2013, 05:27
One of the most interesting things in the comic, I think, is how Momo says that some AIs "choose" to believe. What a strange concept.

Sounds quite human to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JRDelirio on 10 Jun 2013, 05:30
It is fascinating that the sense of mystery humans feel about how they came to be is also felt by beings who know how they were invented and by whom.
Momo states the AI sentience seems to be an "emergent" phenomenon, like the human: they know how, when and under whose supervision they were physically created (like we have a pretty good idea of how we physically evolved) but can't point out one specific assembly or coding step or runtime subroutine (or finite, defined, sets thereof) that leads to the prsesence of sentience, it's "just there" -- so AIs may feel there must be some inherent universal intelligence that is manifested though an indwelling among individual beings.  Not necessarily supernatural but a "greater power" nonetheless.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 05:35
One of the most interesting things in the comic, I think, is how Momo says that some AIs "choose" to believe. What a strange concept.

Sounds quite human to me.
Except people believe or they don't, or maybe something in between, but it's hardly a choice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Storel on 10 Jun 2013, 05:39
I had to Google the word "fib." Is that an Eastern US word? It doesn't exist out here...

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've heard it since moving out West.

Not that far east, though; Colorado/Wyoming person here and I've heard the term.

I've been living in California since I was four years old and I've heard the word "fib" for as long as I can remember.

Both my parents were originally from the Midwest, though (Oklahoma and Wisconsin), so it's possible I got it from them... but I'm sure I've heard lots of other Californians use that word.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 06:06
Distributed devotion orchestration service?

I got it even if nobody else did.

It's possible to "choose" a working hypothesis.

I wonder what happens when religious humans try to proselytize AnthroPCs.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 06:24
It's possible to "choose" a working hypothesis
Perhaps, but belief is a conclusion, not a hypothesis.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 10 Jun 2013, 07:07
For that matter, I could easily see an AI worshipping humans, and from there worshipping a creator of humans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 10 Jun 2013, 07:10
 I think Jeph's new freckle style http://jephjacques.com/post/52443364918/tonight-i-figured-out-how-to-use-clipping-masks (http://jephjacques.com/post/52443364918/tonight-i-figured-out-how-to-use-clipping-masks) is another victim of the details being lost when he downsizes the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Jun 2013, 07:28
"FIB", of course, has another definition in Wisconsin.

The I stands for Illinois. The B is an appropriate moniker questioning the individual's birth. The F is a slang derogatory term.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 07:35
What do you have against Illinois?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jun 2013, 08:43
Presumably that it's not Wisconsin, mainly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jun 2013, 09:01
As I understand it, it's not so much the entire state of Illinois in general as it is Chicago in particular. Because, you know, da Bears.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 09:25
Oh, a sports thing :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jun 2013, 09:28
More of a religious thing. The Green Bay Packers are the legally established state religion of the State of Wisconsin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 09:33
I thought cheese was the official religion.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 10 Jun 2013, 09:43
No, that's the state currency.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bryntheskits on 10 Jun 2013, 10:21
Aw man I really liked that pun.

Pea one was still the best though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 10 Jun 2013, 10:28
Her puns are clever. Too clever.

IMO, good puns (ones that you'd share in a conversation) should have a punch-you-in-the-gut "gosh why didn't I think of that already" quality. Clever puns belong in prose or in the third or fourth round of a pun contest.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 10 Jun 2013, 10:44
Third or fourth round?  There hasn't even been a complete round yet!

Clearly, what she needs is a sparring partner.  Even the bantering baristas need a few rounds of setup before achieving hilarious quality!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 10 Jun 2013, 11:10
Third or fourth round?  There hasn't even been a complete round yet!

exactly my point ... to shoehorn a pun contest into an ongoing conversation the punner must choose not a clever pun but rather a stupidly-accessible one that will draw out a "gee, I can do better than that" reaction

that said, picking a pun fight with non-sequitur specialist Emily and could-find-1000-rhymes-and-near-rhymes-to-any-word-you-can-think-up-in-half-a-millisecond Momo might leave Claire with more than she bargained for
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 10 Jun 2013, 11:26
Robot Religion?

Interesting


So say we all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 10 Jun 2013, 11:29
Going back to the pole on scrappers weapon-ology I chose the Stop Sign with a few added decorations "Please" "Living" and "♥"
It's a standard post apocalyptic or street punk weapon of bad-ass-ery.

Warning - while you were typing your keyboard had been commandeered by a Barovioan Otaku using a c64. You may wish to adjust your pixels.

A pun contest is never shoehorned in. At best you can try and kick-start one into a conversation by booting one or two choice comments on the fly.
As pointed out though, you should never stand still and wait for a response.

Being a master of non-sequesters is not the same as wielding the pun or accessing a thesaurus or just rhyming.
A pun is a unique ephemeral  creature of questionable pedigree.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 10 Jun 2013, 11:36
... we can haz arms poles?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 10 Jun 2013, 11:46
No, just poll arms.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 11:49
Buddhism could appeal to AnthroPCs who don't believe in a higher power.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 10 Jun 2013, 12:44
It's possible to "choose" a working hypothesis
Perhaps, but belief is a conclusion, not a hypothesis.

A little hard to argue given belief is, by definition, not a conclusion. If you had come to a proper conclusion "belief" would be beside the point: you'd have something concrete you could point to and say, "and this is my conclusion, based on X, Y and Z." The fact that the end result is a belief means there is no conclusion - there's only faith. They're exclusive in that context.

Further, I don't think anyone would answer, "Why do you believe X?" by saying, "I was born that way." Belief is a choice, a decision, a conscious frame of mind. It's not something built into you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 12:48
Hmm...interesting. I've always assumed I didn't have a belief because I've found insufficient evidence to support any conclusion. I don't think I've chosen to not have one, though. I don't think I could choose to believe if I wanted to. I just don't.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 10 Jun 2013, 12:50
You haven't chosen to not have evidence - that's a question of analysis, observation, etc.

You've chosen to not believe in the absence of evidence.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 10 Jun 2013, 12:59
I may have to change my vote to a hand-cranked runcible gun.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 13:13
The absence of evidence is why I don't believe, but it is also why I cannot believe. That is why I reject the notion that I've made a choice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jun 2013, 13:15
All sorts of unanswerable questions here about why we believe what we believe (religious or otherwise). For example, I have a strong belief in the inherent equality of all people, regardless of race/gender/ethnicity/orientation/whatever. There are plenty of perfectly rational arguments to support such a belief, and plenty of empirical evidence as well. But - and this is a big but - that's not why I believe that. I don't recall choosing to believe that everyone is equal, it just seems to be part of my makeup. It's not a rational or conscious choice, it's just a feeling I get whenever I witness any kind of injustice or prejudice that such things are wrong. So was I born with some predisposition to believe this, or is it a result of the environment I grew up in, or a combination of the two? I can't say. In the end, it doesn't matter - I believe what I believe, and the philosophers can argue all they want about why.

And let's not even get into my religious beliefs and why I believe what I believe on that question. That's an argument for another thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 10 Jun 2013, 13:16
Fair enough.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 13:19
Well said, Zeb. I do reject the notion of an "unanswerable question", but otherwise I very much agree.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 13:20
"A thousand people have posted, including Shjade leaving the discussion!"

Yeah, yeah. Not just gonna delete the post. :-)

If you had come to a proper conclusion "belief" would be beside the point: you'd have something concrete you could point to and say, "and this is my conclusion, based on X, Y and Z." The fact that the end result is a belief means there is no conclusion - there's only faith. They're exclusive in that context.

Faith means believing something even when you don't have a good reason. People will always have reasons for their belief. Those reasons can be good and well-founded or they can be shoddy as all get-out and the person just doesn't have very high standards, but they'll still have underlying reasons for it (even when not readily apparent to even themselves, such as when their evolved biology gives them a 'feeling').

As in, those X/Y/Z are the previous determinants leading to that belief, even if they're nonsense. The key words are 'PROPER CONCLUSION', not that a belief isn't what people think is one. This is also why absence of belief isn't a belief; because it isn't a conclusion, it is the lack of the X/Y/Z reasons for that person.

Further, I don't think anyone would answer, "Why do you believe X?" by saying, "I was born that way." Belief is a choice, a decision, a conscious frame of mind. It's not something built into you.

That is such a ridiculous reduction of what he meant, even aside from just repeating what you believe multiple times. You don't have to be "born a [political position]" in order for it not to be a matter of being convinced of something. It isn't a conscious decision. One can, however, consciously experience applying critical thinking to beliefs one has and then find them to be lacking - because something caused your standards of evidence to become more demanding prior to re-evaluating views. That is not the same as "choosing not to believe", it's just ceasing to compartmentalize certain parts of your mind. Likely due to external influence, such as trying to find things to validate it but failing.

We aren't Causal Agents impossibly divorced from physical causality. Things come from previous determinants, not whimsy.

Also there are all kinds of questions people ask about why I believe "x" where the correct, demonstrable answer actually is being born like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 13:23
I'm not going to move any posts, but I think someone (possibly me) should create a belief thread in Discuss instead of continuing here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 13:35
A key point is that the psychology of it may be different for AIs.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 13:41
But the physical reality around us all wouldn't be.

Just because their different hardware might change some of those reasons doesn't make them any different from Human-people. :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jun 2013, 14:00
Well, I've often argued that a sentient AI would have profoundly different motivations than we do, simply because of the hardware differences. Our base motivations are the result of millions of years of evolution selecting for the traits that best kept us alive and best enabled us to reproduce in the environment we were in at the time. Our intelligence hasn't completely freed us from the instincts we evolved back on the African savannah or before.

AIs are the product of a vastly different evolutionary experience - they are the end result of decades of humans trying to build a better computational device. So an AI's driving motivation might well wind up being to process the most data, or to provide the most useful information (to us or to another AI). They wouldn't have a sex drive as such, because biological reproduction isn't an issue. Nor would they have any particular desire to dominate others, or to amass wealth. What would they want? More processing power and more data to process, hence more bandwidth. Beyond that it's anyone's guess what they might do.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 14:10
But how does that change a single thing about how the causal reality for both of us works? Just because their reasons can have fundamentally different causes doesn't mean they don't work in the same way.

I don't see how a particular conscious animal or machine's psychology would have any possible impact on it what-so-ever. I mean, there are plenty of people and animals already with very different approaches to all kinds of things. It's not like I was speaking as though the statement I made is only valid if the beliefs were formulated within a "human 22 year old Nordic trans woman's brain with issues". :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jun 2013, 14:22
Belief is a choice, a decision, a conscious frame of mind. It's not something built into you.

Ways of thinking can be trained into you at an early age, the memories of which do not remain conscious.  Some beliefs can be such a fundamental part of your early upbringing that you don't even have the awareness of them necessary to question them (unless you gain it anew as a result of later critical thinking); such beliefs can just as well be described as built in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 10 Jun 2013, 14:26
Wouldn't an AI that we recognize as "human" be human-like by virtue of human bias? If a human evaluates if a robot is sapient (and thus if it is an AI), they cannot help but apply human standards to them, such as "does this subject care about others" etc. Others criteria, such as "does this subject have arsuajwry" would not apply because humans don't have a concept of "arsuajwry" (I just created the term through semi-random typing on my keyboard).

I fear I am not doing a good job explaining what I mean. Basically, an Artificial Intelligence designed by humans would be considered "human" because it is alike to a human intelligence. Thus, those we consider AIs would think like us to some degree. There may very well be subjects out there in QC-verse who are intelligent in their own way, but we wouldn't recognize them as such, because we are but human.

For a more succinct view on this, compare Randall Munroe:

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_search.png) (http://m.xkcd.com/638/)

Warning - while you were typing a human intelligence has weighed in on the matter. You may wish to review your existence.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tobimaro on 10 Jun 2013, 14:51
I had to vote for Battle Spatula because of this (and I'm not a big fan of Ranma 1/2, but I thought of...) :

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 14:53
The image got removed by host restrictions, but knowing which character you mean: Mmh.. I wanna try Okonomiyaki. :3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tobimaro on 10 Jun 2013, 14:55
The image got removed by host restrictions, but knowing which character you mean: Mmh.. I wanna try Okonomiyaki. :3

No, I put it in a Spoiler, because other people might have had a problem with it.  I'm being good.   :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 10 Jun 2013, 14:58
I cannot see it either. I get the image located at http://blackeva.tripod.com/adm/interstitial/remote.gif.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 15:02
Even when I click it doesn't show.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 10 Jun 2013, 15:08
 He was trying to post a pic of this char:
 
(click to show/hide)

 "Battle Spatula"  :-).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2013, 15:41
The phrase "choose to believe" might make more sense for AnthroPCs than it does for humans, conceivably. Unfortunately it has the word "choose" in it, which could lead to scathing comments about the whole idea of free will.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2013, 15:54
Why is that unfortunate?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 16:00
In the sense that using meaningless gibberish doesn't expedite discussions, presumably. :wink:

I suppose what you mean is more like "Installing new patterns of behaviour" etc., Cold, rather than regular personality growth in response to circumstance? That doesn't really mean anything different either, since there are preceding determinants of the old software causing it and so forth. There are pre-existing reasons even if it is arbitrary and separate from the person's knowledge (Such as if the reason is "I believe it because installed it without reading it first"; there are things in the program causing the belief).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ThomasEll on 10 Jun 2013, 16:08
I think that questions of free will notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to use the word choose in relation to belief systems.


I would imagine that for AIs then it is more of a choice, as they wouldn't have parents who already have their beliefs passing them on, and would basically be able to come to whatever conclusion they wanted to (I assume).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 16:17
I think that questions of free will notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to use the word choose in relation to belief systems.

Then try to actually seriously believe something horrendously inhumane about another group of people for a few minutes now - one which you don't have any problems with at all, but that others hate.

How's that working out for you? No? Not managing it? I know I can't; and that the same things goes for the rest. Pretending to hold a belief is not synonymous with actually believing it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 10 Jun 2013, 16:22
I had to Google the word "fib." Is that an Eastern US word? It doesn't exist out here...

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've heard it since moving out West.

Not that far east, though; Colorado/Wyoming person here and I've heard the term.

I've been living in California since I was four years old and I've heard the word "fib" for as long as I can remember.

Both my parents were originally from the Midwest, though (Oklahoma and Wisconsin), so it's possible I got it from them... but I'm sure I've heard lots of other Californians use that word.

Yep.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Redball on 10 Jun 2013, 16:31
Welcome, new member! While brevity is good, you're welcome to post at greater length and tell us about yourself in the newcomer section.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 10 Jun 2013, 16:33
I think that questions of free will notwithstanding, I think it's reasonable to use the word choose in relation to belief systems.

Then try to actually seriously believe something horrendously inhumane about another group of people for a few minutes now - one which you don't have any problems with at all, but that others hate.

How's that working out for you? No? Not managing it? I know I can't; and that the same things goes for the rest. Pretending to hold a belief is not synonymous with actually believing it.

I know plenty of people who choose to believe whatever easy-to-digest bumper-stickerism was last and loudest shouted at them, for no other reason than it helps them rationalize their fears/prejudices or gives them some Other to blame for their failure to be as awesome as they think they ought to be. Some are family and cannot be abandoned, others were folks I encountered because dealing with such folks was my (thankfully) former job.
Yes, belief is a choice. You can choose to believe, or you can choose to test your belief. In a rational person, the latter course might strengthen or weaken a belief. Not everyone is rational.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 17:12
I know plenty of people who choose to believe whatever easy-to-digest bumper-stickerism was last and loudest shouted at them, for no other reason than it helps them rationalize their fears/prejudices or gives them some Other to blame for their failure to be as awesome as they think they ought to be.

Petitio principii. You are assuming the initial point to be argued as a premise: "People choose to believe things because I think they choose to believe them".

Basically just re-read this, or read it if you didn't in the first place. (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,29032.msg1164731.html#msg1164731) Just because people can believe things for bad reasons doesn't make it a choice. If it is helping them provide justification for their poorly-supported prejudices then those are pre-existing beliefs that their uncritical minds are trying to support, not the other way around.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 10 Jun 2013, 17:16
Well, that didn't take long.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Valdís on 10 Jun 2013, 17:32
Hm? The timestamps say it's like 40 minutes between them? Also you were replying to my post specifically, so yeah, I responded? :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 10 Jun 2013, 18:01
I discussed this topic with a friend a few days ago actually. At least in context with religions "believing" is to me the same as "hoping", the only difference being the probability you allocate to it. If you believe something, you wish for something to happen and assume it will, if you hope for something, you wish for it to happen, but don't necessarily assume that it will.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 10 Jun 2013, 22:41
Then try to actually seriously believe something horrendously inhumane about another group of people for a few minutes now - one which you don't have any problems with at all, but that others hate.

How's that working out for you? No? Not managing it? I know I can't; and that the same things goes for the rest. Pretending to hold a belief is not synonymous with actually believing it.

That works out for me alright. It's unpleasant, as I don't like thinking that way about other people even when I have good reason to do so, but it's not some impossible task to change point of view to consider someone else's perspective. It is, in fact, something which more people should do more often.

I find it interesting that your position seems to be the opposite of the position you're refuting: where you say...
Petitio principii. You are assuming the initial point to be argued as a premise: "People choose to believe things because I think they choose to believe them".
...your counterargument appears to be "People don't choose to believe things because I think they don't choose to believe them." Choosing to maintain a pre-existing belief rather than face the difficulties associated with needing to change that belief is still a choice, in that case the choice to shore up support for what they already believe rather than to go against it.

All that said, as others have pointed out already, this could probably live a more healthy life in its own thread. The discussion on choice, that is. It seems like it's starting to take this one over.

Sidenote: when did I say I was leaving the discussion? Presumptuous.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 10 Jun 2013, 23:35
*singing* Hiiiighway to the Spider Zone!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 11 Jun 2013, 00:14
I know this "We have a basement?" line.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jun 2013, 00:26
There must be something weirder to do with a basement than turn it into a cafe or a metal shop.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Adjamemnon on 11 Jun 2013, 00:43
As I understand it, it's not so much the entire state of Illinois in general as it is Chicago in particular. Because, you know, da Bears.

I have family in the area, so I can let you know that Packers fans have much more enmity towards the Vikings than the Bears, which is weird given the proximity.

The dislike against Chicagoans, and thus all the Illinois people, comes from them going north to be loud, intrusive and messing up all the fishing/camping/outdoors/wildlife stuff.  I remember this because it's a strangely similar dynamic that Wyomingites have about Coloradoans (whom we called "F-ing Greenies" for their green license plates).

Don't get me wrong, they dislike the Bears too, but it really is the Vikings that gets their special hate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 11 Jun 2013, 01:16
she does her coffee roasting in the spider zone? is it me, or does that kind of sound like a bit of a health code violation?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 11 Jun 2013, 01:33
I know this "We have a basement?" line.
Why is there hay everywhere?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 11 Jun 2013, 01:45
I discussed this topic with a friend a few days ago actually. At least in context with religions "believing" is to me the same as "hoping", the only difference being the probability you allocate to it. If you believe something, you wish for something to happen and assume it will, if you hope for something, you wish for it to happen, but don't necessarily assume that it will.
Pessimisterne er dog de reneste tåber.
De tror på det modsatte af hvad de håber!
Nej, de optimister som livet beror på,
er dem som tør håbe på noget de tror på.

Piet Hein

The pessimists are the greatest fools.
They believe the opposite of what they hope!
No, the optimists that life depends on,
are those who dare to hope for something they believe in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 11 Jun 2013, 01:46
she does her coffee roasting in the spider zone? is it me, or does that kind of sound like a bit of a health code violation?

I think the "spider zone" may be a reference to Faye's ruse to terrify Raven into not opening the bags of fresh beans. The one that failed utterly on Penne-lope.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 11 Jun 2013, 02:14
I know this "We have a basement?" line.
Why is there hay everywhere?
:D

LENGF (Loki's explanation for Non-German folks): This references an excerpt from a porn movie that went viral on the German part of the Internet. (The excerpt went viral, not the movie, that is.)

It features the abundant "random sex with the mechanic who you had invited" trope. A conveniently scantily-clad woman directs a masked (think Phantom of the Opera) man to a basement. The floor is covered in hay.
She goes: "So, this is the switchbox we keep having problems with".
He: "U-huh. Why is there hay anyway?"
She: "Dunno. Why are you wearing a mask?"
He: "Beats me. Blow me, I guess?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 11 Jun 2013, 02:15
There must be something weirder to do with a basement than turn it into a cafe or a metal shop.

BDSM Dungeon?

I think the "spider zone" may be a reference to Faye's ruse to terrify Raven into not opening the bags of fresh beans. The one that failed utterly on Penne-lope.

Wait, did Pennelope get put onto a bus? Haven't see her since......the lake trip?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 11 Jun 2013, 03:07
*singing* Hiiiighway to the Spider Zone!
My first thought too, and I didn't even like the movie much, though it has a great opening sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9C5_-VWU6ks#t=59s).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 11 Jun 2013, 04:12
Me, I was thinking "With great coffee comes great responsibility."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jun 2013, 10:10
LENGF (Loki's explanation for Non-German folks)

It's been weeks at least since I laughed as hard as I did over that explanation.

Maybe the spiders are the super-secret part of the roasting process that Dora refuses to tell anyone about?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 11 Jun 2013, 10:32
You know, we never saw Gordon leave the shop after he and Hannelore talked. Hanners, is there something you want to tell us?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: muon on 11 Jun 2013, 11:37
*singing* Hiiiighway to the Spider Zone!
My first thought too, and I didn't even like the movie much
Don't you be talking smack about my favorite childhood movie!  :-P
though it has a great opening sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9C5_-VWU6ks#t=59s).
Now that's something we can definitely all agree on.

I actually choked on my wine when I read GarandMarine's comment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 11 Jun 2013, 12:19
LENGF


But on a completely unrelated note, I'm a little bit disappointed with some of the unfinished storylines lately. I demand to know about Dale and Marigold's truce! Also Gordon. And I feel like there's going to be a random pun interlude featuring Emily and Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 11 Jun 2013, 12:21
Okay, I had misremembered his mask.

I want to see the resolution of crying Emily.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 11 Jun 2013, 12:41
*singing* Hiiiighway to the Spider Zone!
My first thought too, and I didn't even like the movie much
Don't you be talking smack about my favorite childhood movie!  :-P
though it has a great opening sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9C5_-VWU6ks#t=59s).
Now that's something we can definitely all agree on.

I actually choked on my wine when I read GarandMarine's comment.

Hah score!

Also I fully blame Top Gun for my obsession with aviation and the course my life took joining the U.S. military and becoming part of a Naval Flight Crew (no carriers here, C-130s are too big XD) but the running gag at Naval Aircrew Candidate's School is that you get a copy of Top Gun with your initial flight equipment gear issue (flight boots, flight suits, flight jackets, including that sexy leather number, etc)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 11 Jun 2013, 12:43
So they took the phrase "a roll in the hay" a little too literally? Seriously, that sounds itchy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 11 Jun 2013, 13:39
The secret is out

COD is a TARDIS
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Jun 2013, 15:10
What weapon created from scrap would you wield?

Sword of the Stars    5 (8.3%)
Light Saber    6 (10%)
Hell Lance    2 (3.3%)
Spear of Destiny    3 (5%)
Warhammer 40k    6 (10%)
Battle Aximili    0 (0%)
Amphistaff    1 (1.7%)
Stop Sign    10 (16.7%)
Waffle Iron    0 (0%)
Spathe Hammer    2 (3.3%)
Battle Spatula    10 (16.7%)
Epic Flail    15 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 11 Jun 2013, 16:31
no carriers here, C-130s are too big
I saw an episode of a TV show once in which the hero landed a Hercules on a carrier, and thought "typical Hollywood bullshit". I was wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 11 Jun 2013, 19:29
The pessimists are the greatest fools.
They believe the opposite of what they hope!
No, the optimists that life depends on,
are those who dare to hope for something they believe in.

A truly lovely sentiment. 

Back to choice for a moment;

I think that, in the US, the notion of choice in religion is a common one simply because so many of them are so damn similar... at least, the myriad protestant denominations are.  New churches are often started not because of some fundamental difference in belief, but rather because someone didn't like the pastor, or had an argument with another prominent member of the church.  The result is a damn near full spectrum of "faiths", all basically holding the same tenets.  Don't like the Lutherans?  Try the Episcopalians or the Methodists!  Don't like the Baptists?  How about seventh-Day Adventists?  Tired of being Amish?  How about joining the Mennonites!  No matter where you are on the spectrum, there are other groups pretty close to yours. 

But of course, it's an illusion of choice.  If faith were a rainbow, we'd be talking about the stretch from aqua to royal blue. 

There's a lot more out there, and it can take a major shift in your world view to convert that far.  Not that people don't change what they believe, but it's a change at a fundamental level, usually for reasons beyond choice - paradigm shifts aren't usually voluntary things.  I'm not talking about people who convert out of love, just to marry or make another person happy (the shallowest of reasons to change yourself), but those who are actively disturbed by something fundamental in what they thought was their faith, and so seek a new way. 

So I disagree with the notion that it's really a choice.  The choice is mainly in the window-dressing. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 11 Jun 2013, 21:20
And thus did Gordon unleash his armies of terror!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Jun 2013, 21:41
:psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 11 Jun 2013, 21:53
....must.... resist.... firebombing.... fictional... location
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jun 2013, 22:20
I wonder if they're related to the library spiders.

Will they have to hire Gordon to control them?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 11 Jun 2013, 22:27
ok, seriously. have they ever even had a health inspection?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 11 Jun 2013, 22:30
Someone pissed off Lolth.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Cat on 11 Jun 2013, 22:44
Okay, seriously. What part of SPIDER zone eluded Sam? Migl fargin eight legged freaks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jun 2013, 23:44
Health inspections (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=914).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mordhaus on 12 Jun 2013, 00:07
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/File:Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_-_Follow_the_Spiders (http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/File:Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_-_Follow_the_Spiders)

Follow the spiders...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 12 Jun 2013, 00:29
So judging by their expressions, I'm guessing they found Pintsize's secret porn stash in the Spider Zone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 01:04
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/File:Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_-_Follow_the_Spiders (http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/File:Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_-_Follow_the_Spiders)

Follow the spiders...

That was what I was thinking.

Okay, seriously. What part of SPIDER zone eluded Sam? Migl fargin eight legged freaks.

Maybe she thought they were cute itsy-bitsy spiders...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 12 Jun 2013, 01:17
Obvious question: Why is Faye unfortunate enough to be spider free? Did her reputation precede her?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 12 Jun 2013, 01:25
Maybe she thought they were cute itsy-bitsy spiders...

They are...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 12 Jun 2013, 01:26
Obvious question: Why is Faye unfortunate enough to be spider free? Did her reputation precede her?
Actually Sam preceded her, tearing down the webs in the process.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: katsmeat on 12 Jun 2013, 01:40
Darn, I'm disappointed about Sam. I was expecting her to emerge hugging some Acromantula-like thing, the size of a Labrador, gleefully saying "I shall call her Webby".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 01:43
Obvious question: Why is Faye unfortunate enough to be spider free? Did her reputation precede her?

Reminds me of a certain Discworld character...
Quote
Granny Weatherwax's reputation even extends beyond species barriers – the trolls of the Ramtops call her Aaoograha hoa ("She Who Must Be Avoided") and the dwarf name for her, K'ez'rek d'b'duz, translates to "Go Around the Other Side of the Mountain" (Maskerade).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 12 Jun 2013, 01:44
Obvious question: Why is Faye unfortunate enough to be spider free? Did her reputation precede her?

In XXXholic IIRC, Yūko notes that spiders usually go after the person who destroys their web. Or something like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 12 Jun 2013, 02:27
New poll up. You get two votes if there's more than one you really like, and you can change your answer if desired. On reflection, the last poll wasn't very good, with bad puns, obscure references, and missing options. Oh well, they can't all be hits.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TinPenguin on 12 Jun 2013, 02:39
Obvious question: Why is Faye unfortunate enough to be spider free? Did her reputation precede her?
Actually Sam preceded her, tearing down the webs in the process.

Sam charges in, sword swinging, hacks down all the webs like a jungle trailblazer, disappears beneath an avalanche of spiders.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 02:47
Health inspections (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=914).

Hannersmom is SO FREAKING AWESOME. <3

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ihaveavoice on 12 Jun 2013, 02:48
AND THEN IHAVEAVOICE BURNED NEW HAMPSHIRE TO THE GROUND.

OMG. You guys. I just watched Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom for the first time today (yes, I know) and NOBODY WARNED ME ABOUT THE BUGS. Like, seriously, I needed a trigger warning I HAVE A THING ABOUT BUGS. And my mind had been kind enough to just block it all right the hell out but then...Spider Zone. And now I can't stop thinking about OH MY GOD THERE WERE SO MANY AND THEY WERE BIG AND THEY GOT ON THEM ALL OVER THEM HOW WILL I EVER SLEEP AGAIN

Honestly, as much as Willie is written purely to be annoying, I would have lost my shit FAR WORSE at that point. I mean, I still would've saved them, but I would NOT have been fine soon after. Possibly ever after. ASDFGHJKL; SOMEONE GET IT OUT OF MY BRAIN
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 12 Jun 2013, 03:44
....must.... resist.... firebombing.... fictional... location
I'm fine with spiders. I'm glad there were no cockroaches!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 12 Jun 2013, 04:03
I can relate to Faye and Sam a bit. I remember a trip to Hawaii where I decided to take a scenic path instead of the straight road back to the care. About a 1/3 of the way in I noticed a really cool spider web, with a spider in the center about 3 inches across. Then another one. And another. Then I started noticing multiple webs at a time, and soon realized that I was surrounded by a couple thousand webs, all orb weaves, all with spiders about the size of the first in the middle. They were on all sides, including above, forward, and back, arcing over the path. It was surprising I hadn't already walked into one. I carefully and quickly went back and took the road instead. I'm normally okay with spiders, and they were probably harmless, but damn that got my heart racing. In general regarding insects and arachnids and such, I'm okay if there's one or two in view or even on me, no issue, but once there are more than I can keep track of, up goes the blood pressure.

Regarding fibs, I've heard it infrequently, but most of my encounters with the word have been literary. I'm pretty sure it's a family thing, not a regional thing.

Regarding belief, it is completely a choice. No one could convert from or to a religion if it wasn't, and no one is born believing anything. And that's all I have to say about that (in this thread, where unestablished definitions, unacknowledged variability, and fluff doomed any discussion).

Haven't we heard of the basement before? I recall conversation about expanding the cafe into it or something. Anyway, turning it into a BSDM dungeon would be positively banal. Turning it into model plain runway or something would be truly weird.

Spiders, by the way, are either a very good indication (being carnivores that eat other insects, keeping the human food safe) or a very bad indication (so many means there's lots of insect food for them).

I needed a trigger warning.
No you didn't. You needed to take responsibility and check beforehand (it's noted on the Wikipedia page), or be willing to deal with your own fears (you have pause and/or mute buttons, I presume). I really, really hate the concept of trigger warnings, it's a bad form of coddling.

Also, leave the poor shift key alone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 12 Jun 2013, 04:20
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/File:Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_-_Follow_the_Spiders (http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/File:Harry_Potter_and_the_Chamber_of_Secrets_-_Follow_the_Spiders)

Follow the spiders...

If I learned anything from the Harry Potter series (other than feeling like a dirty old man while watching Emma Watson grow up...) it was that we need more large reptilian beasts to deal with spiders.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Jun 2013, 04:30
I HAVE A THING ABOUT BUGS. And my mind had been kind enough to just block it all right the hell out but then...Spider Zone. And now I can't stop thinking about OH MY GOD THERE WERE SO MANY AND THEY WERE BIG AND THEY GOT ON THEM ALL OVER THEM HOW WILL I EVER SLEEP AGAIN

Well, damn. I guess I won't be posting any pictures of cute spiders to this thread, then.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nepiophage on 12 Jun 2013, 04:32
Spiders are cuddly and fun. Arachnophobia is like homophobia  -- irrational bigotry. When I start my own religion  I will make spiders sacred creatures which it is a grievous sin to kill.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 12 Jun 2013, 04:38
Arachnophobia is like homophobia  -- irrational bigotry.

Real phobias do exist - please do not belittle them.

Well, damn. I guess I won't be posting any pictures of cute spiders to this thread, then.  :-D

As many as you like - but suitably spoilered, please, as we know there are people here who do not wish to see them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 12 Jun 2013, 04:39
Well, damn. I guess I won't be posting any pictures of cute spiders to this thread, then.  :-D
Don't worry, I've done it before.

As someone with mild arachnophobia, I probably shouldn't ask, but is there a real spider that Gordon's appearance is based on?
Apparently, jumping spiders. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2334) It did get up on that counter easily. But don't worry, they just want to be friends.
(click to show/hide)

Arachnophobia is like homophobia  -- irrational bigotry.
Real phobias do exist - please do not belittle them.
Phobias are by definition irrational- it's not belittling to say so. Neither, in this context, is comparing these two phobias and calling them bigoted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 12 Jun 2013, 04:41
Spiders are cuddly and fun.

Unless it's a funnel web, which are somewhat less cuddly and certainly no fun if they bite you. Good thing antivenom is so effective.

(click to show/hide)

I've only seen one once. It was in a pool. Lucky for me that I was aware of how good they are at surviving submerged for long periods of time.

edit: I forgot to quote the post to which I was replying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 12 Jun 2013, 04:45
Well yeah, we know that arachnophobia is irrational. But I can't help freaking out anyway when I see one. Yesterday I nearly got a heart attack when a spider crawled over my computer desk. The thing about phobias is that they bypass several parts of the brain. A phobia induces reactions before you really notice the cause, based on simple patterns. When I see a dark spot on the carpet I jump. Then my brain finally computes all this visual data and notices that it's only a leaf or something. This initial reaction is part of the phobia, and very, very hard to get rid of. While I nowadays manage to go to the basement and walk past a big spider on the wall, I still can't help but jump when initially I see it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 12 Jun 2013, 04:55
Phobias are by definition irrational- it's not belittling to say so. Neither, in this context, is comparing these two phobias and calling them bigoted.

Comparing a recognised clinical condition with a non-clinical "phobia" which is in fact prejudice is indeed belittling.  Of course, it would be better if homophobia was referred to as homomisia (meaning hatred of or disgust for homosexuality) - but that won't happen.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 12 Jun 2013, 05:24
AND THEN IHAVEAVOICE BURNED NEW HAMPSHIRE TO THE GROUND.
You missed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northampton,_Massachusetts).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Jun 2013, 05:58
New poll up. You get two votes if there's more than one you really like, and you can change your answer if desired. On reflection, the last poll wasn't very good, with bad puns, obscure references, and missing options. Oh well, they can't all be hits.
You forgot the obvious:

"Nuke it from orbit. Just to be sure."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LordVaughn on 12 Jun 2013, 06:06
I'm pretty sure if I were in Sam's position, I probably would have screamed loud and high enough that it probably would have broken CoD's windows. If I were younger, I'd probably have torn off my clothes and jumped into the closest body of water my entire body could fit into.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 06:07
Spiders are cuddly and fun. Arachnophobia is like homophobia  -- irrational bigotry. When I start my own religion  I will make spiders sacred creatures which it is a grievous sin to kill.

Cool, I get to go to hell in yet another religion *adds a mark to a tally list*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Jun 2013, 08:02
Well, damn. I guess I won't be posting any pictures of cute spiders to this thread, then.  :-D

As many as you like - but suitably spoilered, please, as we know there are people here who do not wish to see them.

Not to worry, I'm not gratuitously malicious except to neo-Nazis. As they seem to be in short supply around here, I'll behave.


Spiders are cuddly and fun. Arachnophobia is like homophobia  -- irrational bigotry. When I start my own religion  I will make spiders sacred creatures which it is a grievous sin to kill.

Cool, I get to go to hell in yet another religion *adds a mark to a tally list*

But you really, really don't want to go to the hell of the Church of Arachnia. Trust me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 12 Jun 2013, 08:09
Well, damn. I guess I won't be posting any pictures of cute spiders to this thread, then.  :-D

(http://mycarblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1974-Fiat-124-Spider-Red-Front-Angle-st.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 12 Jun 2013, 08:10
My worries don't lie in the amount of spiders present in the basement. It's the conditions for those spiders to live: they need to feed, and they feed insects.

In order to sustain such an amount of spiders there, that basement must be room full with arthropods: roaches, longlegs, mites, ticks, woodlice, perhaps even mice. THAT IS AN UNSANITARY BASEMENT!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: toffee-skye on 12 Jun 2013, 09:24
i suppose it's a blessing that it's set in Massachusetts and therefore you don't get ones the size of your hand or something.. but those do look quite big. big enough for me to run down the stairs from. (i was going upstairs, the spider wanted to come downstairs, we reached an impasse,  i'm 19 years old and screamed like a toddler who'd just discovered the f-word)

i used to be very scared of spiders when i was younger, though, about Sam's age. i couldn't tolerate even the very tiny money spiders we have in the UK.

a basement full of spiders combines two irrational fears for me though: the dark AND spiders. uughhjsfdnaifainfa no thank you D:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: sitnspin on 12 Jun 2013, 09:26
I really, really hate the concept of trigger warnings, it's a bad form of coddling.

Try living with PTSD, then. Trigger warnings are not coddling, they are a demonstration of compassion. Just because something is not an issue for you that doesn't make it okay to belittle those for whom it is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MillionDollar Belt Sander on 12 Jun 2013, 09:38

I needed a trigger warning.
No you didn't. You needed to take responsibility and check beforehand (it's noted on the Wikipedia page), or be willing to deal with your own fears (you have pause and/or mute buttons, I presume). I really, really hate the concept of trigger warnings, it's a bad form of coddling.

Also, leave the poor shift key alone.

Funny I grew up without protection from bullying,  without trigger warnings and without a nanny-state holding my hand every step of the way.   I learned to avoid things and situations that would trigger my issues, and I've learned to accept that I am going to run into those things during my life.

In other words,  it is coddling and it encourages weakness.   Instead,  grow... adapt... rationalize... seek help... and move forward.   

In my case...  heights.   And a crippling fear of thunderstorms.      Now I'm the first one up the ladder,  and I can sit outside on the porch during a storm.   Used to be anything higher than ground-level even in photographs would set me off.   Same thing with thunder.      I overcame.     I had to:  No one coddled me.

As for the flames,  BRING THEM.  I'm heat-treating a piece of steel and could use a couple thousand degrees of heat at the moment.  ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 09:46
Westrim, MDBS: Shouldn't whether they want to be coddled or not be the choice of the person in question?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Jun 2013, 10:13
MDBS, I too grew up without protection from bullying, and it left me barely functional. I couldn't avoid the kids who bullied me, I was forced to go to school with them, and the adults who should have been protecting me either turned a blind eye or actually joined in the bullying. It was relentless, it was way beyond "normal" child interaction, and it was crippling. I'm still dealing with the fallout decades later.

It's great that you had a different experience than me. Maybe you were stronger, or more likely you didn't have to endure the level of pure torture I did. But I could have used a little bit of protection, because it was beyond what any human being should rationally have to face. I'm glad that kids today have more protection than I did.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2013, 10:19
I can relate to Faye and Sam a bit. I remember a trip to Hawaii where I decided to take a scenic path instead of the straight road back to the care. About a 1/3 of the way in I noticed a really cool spider web, with a spider in the center about 3 inches across. Then another one. And another. Then I started noticing multiple webs at a time, and soon realized that I was surrounded by a couple thousand webs, all orb weaves, all with spiders about the size of the first in the middle. They were on all sides, including above, forward, and back, arcing over the path. It was surprising I hadn't already walked into one. I carefully and quickly went back and took the road instead.

What did Gandalf say about staying on the path?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 12 Jun 2013, 10:20
Different people experience phobia and triggering reactions differently. Just because some people can or learn to deal with their triggers doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. And not equal between different triggers. When I was younger I had a bad phobia of the undead. Zombies, skeletons that sort of thing. Yes, it's ridiculous but I still had it. Through forced exposure to it I was eventually over to overcome that phobia. I also have phobias of being randomly attacked, raped or incarcerated. Sometimes panic attacks on those issues keep me from leaving my house for days. And I doubt I will ever get over those issues.

Offering trigger warnings is not coddling anyway. It is giving someone fore warning of things that may or may not bother them. Then that person can choose whether or not to continue, instead of it just being sprung on them with little no no warning. This is being polite and conscious of other people's feelings, not nannying them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2013, 10:24
I respect people who confront phobias but they shouldn't be forced into it.

It is only right to get people's consent before having sex with them or putting them into a psychological emergency.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 12 Jun 2013, 10:28
There WAS a trigger warning. Jephzibah didn't name this strip "Arachnaphobes should skip this one" for nothing.

As for my stance towards trigger warnings, you're reading a comic called "questionable content"...  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 12 Jun 2013, 10:42
Darn, I'm disappointed about Sam. I was expecting her to emerge hugging some Acromantula-like thing, the size of a Labrador, gleefully saying "I shall call her Webby".

I shall call him Webby and he shall be mine, and he shall be my Webby! Come here Webby! Come here widdle Webby Come her-ow! Bad Webby!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Midwesterner on 12 Jun 2013, 10:44
I love Dora's look the past couple strips. You could even say she's a-Dora-ble.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Jun 2013, 11:12
I could, yes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nepiophage on 12 Jun 2013, 11:19
I meant no offence but, though jokingly put, I had a serious point here. There are legitimate reasons for killing animals --as food, in competition for food (viz. agricultural pests), personal safety (dangerous spiders, disease carrying insects, if attacked by a bear etc.)  etc.  Irrational fear, or, worse, just not liking them, is not a good enough reason. Spiders are just as alive as robins or baby seals and deserve the same respect.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Jun 2013, 11:27
Except robins and baby seals are less likely to come near you, and even if a bird does come near you it is not hard to shoo away if you are so inclined.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2013, 11:29
MDBS, I too grew up without protection from bullying, and it left me barely functional. I couldn't avoid the kids who bullied me, I was forced to go to school with them, and the adults who should have been protecting me either turned a blind eye or actually joined in the bullying. It was relentless, it was way beyond "normal" child interaction, and it was crippling. I'm still dealing with the fallout decades later.

It's great that you had a different experience than me. Maybe you were stronger, or more likely you didn't have to endure the level of pure torture I did. But I could have used a little bit of protection, because it was beyond what any human being should rationally have to face. I'm glad that kids today have more protection than I did.

Your experiences are difficult and painful for me to read about.

I didn't need to be protected, because "difficult and painful" and "triggering" are different animals.

"Triggering" is like setting off fireworks around a combat veteran. It's not part of the give and take and ups and downs of normal social interaction. It's not something a DHB will do on purpose, whereas saying unpleasant things could even be an obligation sometimes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 11:35
I meant no offence but, though jokingly put, I had a serious point here. There are legitimate reasons for killing animals --as food, in competition for food (viz. agricultural pests), personal safety (dangerous spiders, disease carrying insects, if attacked by a bear etc.)  etc.  Irrational fear, or, worse, just not liking them, is not a good enough reason. Spiders are just as alive as robins or baby seals and deserve the same respect.

...and I will make an attempt to not kill spiders even though I have mild arachnophobia.

Bloodsuckers of any kind are fair game, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 11:40
I have a treaty with spider kind, however if they cross the DMZ they will be brutally terminated without hesitation.

Trigger warnings that I'm used to usually relate to buddies with PTSD... having to actively restrain two large adult males from flipping a table for cover if a car backfires near a restaurant you're eating at is all the learning you need to do on that subject, trust me. Triggers, especially for the various forms of combat and non-combat PTSD are NOT something to scoff at.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 12 Jun 2013, 12:12

I needed a trigger warning.
No you didn't. You needed to take responsibility and check beforehand (it's noted on the Wikipedia page), or be willing to deal with your own fears (you have pause and/or mute buttons, I presume). I really, really hate the concept of trigger warnings, it's a bad form of coddling.

Also, leave the poor shift key alone.

Funny I grew up without protection from bullying,  without trigger warnings and without a nanny-state holding my hand every step of the way.   I learned to avoid things and situations that would trigger my issues, and I've learned to accept that I am going to run into those things during my life.

In other words,  it is coddling and it encourages weakness.   Instead,  grow... adapt... rationalize... seek help... and move forward. 

A friend of mine has a bit of a heart condition. What happens if she gets too excited (examples of "excited" including "frightened in startling fashion," for instance)? Hospital visits, if she's lucky.

Someone linked said friend to this horror story (http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=20&weekday=tue) without warning her about what it was, just that it was something interesting they thought she'd like to read. Spoiler alert: don't click that if you have issues being frightened by sudden noises/unexpected jump scares.

He was confused when he heard her uttering strange, gurgling sounds over the mic on Mumble afterward, as he was unaware that this is apparently the sound made when collapsing as your heart freaks out.

Not everyone is equally equipped to deal with every situation. Maybe you're better at dealing with adversity than some other people; bully for you. That doesn't mean you get to disregard common courtesy dealing with other people. "It wouldn't have bothered me" is no excuse. "They should toughen up" is no excuse.

Be considerate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Delator on 12 Jun 2013, 12:15
Their reaction (looking at her silently, then moving on without any acknowledgement) strikes me as needlessly mean.

It's also the only way to get a known Serial Punner to stop.

Mean? I suppose. Better than Annoying.

Quote
And yet it's not the first time it's happened, even if it always seems out of character for most of the people who do it.

I'm not sure that it's been established that any character particularly likes puns.

Maybe it's the beat face she makes
That face usually gets me laughing more than the actual pun. I love it :)

The face is indeed hilarious.  :lol:

---

"FIB", of course, has another definition in Wisconsin.

What do you have against Illinois?

Quote
*insert several plausible theories*

Many from Illinois, and especially Chicago. Head north to the woods of Wisconsin for their weekends, especially on any sort of extended holiday weekend.

They all drive like fucking maniacs.

Hence the frequent on-the-road use of the extended version of FIB.

The dislike against Chicagoans, and thus all the Illinois people, comes from them going north to be loud, intrusive and messing up all the fishing/camping/outdoors/wildlife stuff.

...this too, but FIB has it's birthplace on the road.

Quote from: Adjamemnon
I have family in the area, so I can let you know that Packers fans have much more enmity towards the Vikings than the Bears, which is weird given the proximity.

Don't get me wrong, they dislike the Bears too, but it really is the Vikings that gets their special hate.

I live 20 minutes from Lambeau field if I floor it. I'm also a Vikings fan. I can tell you with no hesitation that they hate the Bears more.

There are only two reasons it seems different right now.
The first is that the Vikings have had more success in recent history than the Bears, both in general, and against the Packers.
The second is Brett Favre.

---

Spiders just remind me of Eddie Izzard speaking French.  :-P

Warning - while you were typing a new rift has been torn in the fabric of space-time. You may wish to invert polarities.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Jun 2013, 12:28
They can't be worse than Jersey drivers.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 12 Jun 2013, 13:07
Someone linked said friend to this horror story (http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=20&weekday=tue) without warning her about what it was, just that it was something interesting they thought she'd like to read. Spoiler alert: don't click that if you have issues being frightened by sudden noises/unexpected jump scares.

The moment I read the warning I knew which story you linked. I read a translated version once.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 12 Jun 2013, 13:50
ALL HAIL THE SPIDER LORD
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Jun 2013, 13:55
Westrim, MDBS: Shouldn't whether they want to be coddled or not be the choice of the person in question?

well that's the real question isn't it? honestly, it seems more than a little naive to even phrase it as being that simple.

the thing is that we aren't just talking about one person's choice here, we're talking about everyone they interact with in the world. is it right for any one person to demand that everyone else alter all of their behaviors in order to accommodate the issues and cater to the preferences of one individual? and if so, then how far is it reasonable to expect them to bend in order to do so?

and that's assuming just one person thinking only about their own personal issues and difficulties and demands; selfishly and shortsightedly ignoring the fact that there are a lot of other people in the world with a lot of other issues. when there are a thousand people needing a thousand different accommodations, what do you do? what happens when they contradict or are mutually exclusive? what happens when accommodating them requires you to compromise one something you value?


personally, i'm of the opinion that it's on all of us individually to take care of ourselves. i'm not without compassion for people with greater difficulties in life, but i've got enough problems in my own life, without keeping track of and accounting for everyone else's.

Endure. Adapt. Overcome. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOx6zvWsLV0)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 13:57
Brett Farve? DEATH TO THE TRAITOR!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Jun 2013, 14:17
guh?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 12 Jun 2013, 14:19
(click to show/hide)

Yes, that is a real cobalt blue tarantula.  And yes, that is its natural color.


<mod>In accordance with my earlier request, I have added spoiler tags.
As many as you like - but suitably spoilered, please, as we know there are people here who do not wish to see them.
</mod>
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Jun 2013, 14:25
it really is quite pretty.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 12 Jun 2013, 14:30
Is that the granddaddy of all the spiders in the "Spider Zone"? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 12 Jun 2013, 14:50
Westrim, MDBS: Shouldn't whether they want to be coddled or not be the choice of the person in question?

well that's the real question isn't it? honestly, it seems more than a little naive to even phrase it as being that simple.

the thing is that we aren't just talking about one person's choice here, we're talking about everyone they interact with in the world. is it right for any one person to demand that everyone else alter all of their behaviors in order to accommodate the issues and cater to the preferences of one individual? and if so, then how far is it reasonable to expect them to bend in order to do so?

That's taking things to an extreme. There's a pretty big gap between expecting the whole world to alter its output to meet your needs and refusing to warn someone you know has a thing about bugs that this movie you want them to watch has a scene with a mass bug attack in it. The former is expecting way too much. The latter is being a dick.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Jun 2013, 15:10
I'd say that "trigger warning" or similar on things that are common phobias/PTSD triggers is a good idea, although there's no obligation to do that.

Similarly, NSFW warnings on nudity or other content that could get you fired by a superior on sight are a good idea, but there's (usually) not an obligation to do that.

(And then I'm in one IRC channel where it's considered good etiquette to flag NSFW content involving women as NSFG (not safe for gays), too.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Jun 2013, 15:21
Interesting what you get when you google for images of "spider zone".

(click to show/hide)

If my son saw this, he would want one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 12 Jun 2013, 16:05
Interesting fact: I don't really react to tarantulas. I even had a mexican redknee on my hand once. What bothers me are smaller, quicker spiders. The worst spiders I encounter where I live are "domestic house spiders". I almost screamed out loud when the image popped up when I googled for the English name. These things are terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. I grew kind of used to cellar spiders/Pholcidae sitting in corners because of me storing my bicycle in the cellar, but when there's a house spider on the wall I carry my bike up through the staircase instead of going out through the backdoor.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 16:40
Yeah I'm usually okay with tarantulas. It's the tiny super poisonous ones I hate. Fun fact? That cobalt blue one on the last page is named after Metallica.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ihaveavoice on 12 Jun 2013, 16:53
I needed a trigger warning.
No you didn't. You needed to take responsibility and check beforehand (it's noted on the Wikipedia page), or be willing to deal with your own fears (you have pause and/or mute buttons, I presume). I really, really hate the concept of trigger warnings, it's a bad form of coddling.

Also, leave the poor shift key alone.

Okay, I know I used the word "seriously" but I thought it was clear I was joking. It doesn't seem like you're joking because you're all scoldy and talking about how trigger warnings are coddling. So I really must say, dude. It was a joke. It generally amuses people to see hyperbolic all-caps freakouts on the internet. I know they give me a good laugh. Actually, I'm not really sure how any sequence of words that includes ASDFGHJKL; could have been taken seriously, but whatever. It's still not right to randomly spout off about trigger warnings being coddling. If I seriously would have a panic attack at the sight of that many bugs instead of just getting seriously creeped out, it would be a real dick move not to tell me. I now regret joking about needing a trigger warning considering that fact. It just would've been nice to know beforehand is all.

BTW, Masterpiece, the bit he quoted was part of my ZOMG remarks about a scene in the second Indiana Jones movie, not the comic.

You can totally post cute spider pics, Zebediah! It's the sheer amount and inescapability of the Indiana Jones giant WTF!bugs that made me all  :psyduck: and I would just scroll past them if they were on a thread anyway. Also, that Spider Zone looks so fun! I want one, too!

Sorflakne, that tarantula is gorgeous!

AND THEN IHAVEAVOICE BURNED NEW HAMPSHIRE TO THE GROUND.
You missed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northampton,_Massachusetts).

Whoops! Thanks for the correction. I, uh...I suppose I should apologize to the charred remains of New Hampshire now....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Jun 2013, 17:09
They can't be worse than Jersey drivers.
You've never been cut off by a FIB driving down I-94 who's doing 80 mph in a 65.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 12 Jun 2013, 17:43
Yeah I'm usually okay with tarantulas. It's the tiny super poisonous ones I hate. Fun fact? That cobalt blue one on the last page is named after Metallica.
Now "Enter Sandman" is stuck in my head. I hope you're happy with yourself.  :psyduck:

"It's just the beasts under your bed / in your closet, in your head."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 18:10
Cesium! Haven't seen you in a while!

Try replacing it with Unforgiven. Better?

I prolly missed it, but what's a fib?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Jun 2013, 18:11
Fib = lie.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 18:12
Unforgiven is my jam!

and you can't be cut off by a lie in traffic so jwhouk is obviously using a different definition
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Jun 2013, 18:19
IIRC, jwhouk said FIB (as an acronym) is a slur against Illinois residents (the F and B both being swear words).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 12 Jun 2013, 18:42
(click to show/hide)

Yes, that is a real cobalt blue tarantula.  And yes, that is its natural color.


Dawwww

Looks like a Tachikoma
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 12 Jun 2013, 19:05
Dawwww

Looks like a Tachikoma
(http://revoltech.in/catalog/yamaguchi/12.12.15tachikoma/tachikoma4.jpg)

What I don't look like that how dare you compare me to such a small thing that thing probably doesn't have the stuff I can do I can do better than that thing you are so mean in doing that maybe I should just sulk away.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Jun 2013, 19:29
Interesting what you get when you google for images of "spider zone".

(click to show/hide)

If my son saw this, he would want one.
Are you saying you don't want one?
80 mph in a 65.
Wait, is that considered fast?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 12 Jun 2013, 20:45
SIGH

You know, a lot of people have a visceral reaction even to the idea that Intersex people might exist.
It's a lot like their reaction to the idea of intelligent spiders.

I know the poll's a joke. No offense intended. I shouldn't take it too seriously, and I don't.

But you know what? In my mind I substitute "Zoe Brain" for "Intelligent Spider". Then look at the responses from the good, cluey, kinder than average people here.

Tell me - would your vote changed if an intelligent spider wrote a comment like this one?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 12 Jun 2013, 20:59
Or how about a  SEAL?

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/transgender-former-navy-seal-to-anderson-cooper-no-one-ever-met-the-real-me-video/news/2013/06/07/68262#.UblBMpzhesI

Quote
“I want to have my life,” she says.

“There’s a lot of prejudice out there. There’s been a lot of transgender people intelligent spiders who are killed for prejudice, for hatred. When the book came out — some amazing support and some amazing praises — but also some pretty amazing bigotry and hatred.”

“I don’t want you to beat me up and kill me. You don’t have to like me, I don’t care. But please don’t kill me.”

Unless I can comprehend these reactions - to intelligent spiders or whatever - how can I make things better? I have to get inside your heads, to understand. And right now I can't, maybe I'm too neurologically different from the norm.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Jun 2013, 21:03
Not really, I'm not easily swayed by primordial evil after those classes I took at Miskatonic U for my Occult Studies MA.

I just don't see the connection you're reaching for. Spiders are inherently scary to a lot of people, and an intelligent spider would be something very alien. Intrasex, Trans* issues, they're medical conditions. Real people with real, allegedly understandable problems... I just think some people suck. I don't think the connection between the reactions to intelligent spiders and intrasex/transpersons is there though.

Here's a break down of how my brain processes it.

Person = Not Spider
Spider = Not Person
Spider = Primordial Evil
Therefore:
Person = O.K.
Spider = Hell Spawn
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 21:23
GM: wouldn't intelligence imply personality?

...now I feel bad for choosing "Capture and study, because they shouldn't exist" as one of my options. On the other hand, my other choice was "Offer waffles".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2013, 21:48
If I had an intelligent spider around I would converse with it, and otherwise treat it according to its actions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Skewbrow on 12 Jun 2013, 21:59
Re: Poll.  I voted "befriend". Largely because there wasn't a "study" option that did not involve capturing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Jun 2013, 22:06
Mine was befriend and start a spider silk company.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2013, 22:12
I'd want to study it but without the prejudice that it shouldn't exist.

I'd offer ZoeB waffles but I don't think that is a healthful diet for a spider.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Jun 2013, 22:21
GM: wouldn't intelligence imply personality?

not necessarily. or at least, not necissarily one that we as primates would recognize.

if we assume an intelligent creature from a completely different evolutionary branch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbilaterian), with a completely different nervous system & brain structure, why would that intelligence or psychology in any way resemble our own?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Jun 2013, 22:25
And now I feel stupid because I brought up the same "intelligence we would not recognize as such" in the discussion on AI religion  :roll:

Okay, but the way the question is worded seems to imply that you have to choose your action(s) already having the knowledge that the spider is intelligent?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: WAYF on 12 Jun 2013, 23:34
Hannerdad is DEFINITELY a Space Wizard. Almost literally.

Hannelore loves reacting immediately, doesn't she? It's like an automatic panic mechanism: What is the fastest and most efficient way that this threat can be neutralized?
Considering her parentage, threats or things that make her uncomfortable would always have had a very fast, VERY efficient solution.

And sometimes it feels like she doesn't consider the fallout of the efficient methods, a la Mercenary Solutions:
Quote from: Kane and Crowthorne
"The U.S Government figures we owe them 50 large ... something about blowing up the wrong embassy."
"But we also destroyed the RIGHT embassy!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 12 Jun 2013, 23:36
Why haven't I used this yet?

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sorflakne on 12 Jun 2013, 23:36
(click to show/hide)

Yes, that is a real cobalt blue tarantula.  And yes, that is its natural color.


Dawwww

Looks like a Tachikoma
That never crossed my mind until just now :psyduck:

And Hannderdad has a Rods from God (http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god) system...God help us.


Quote
Hannelore loves reacting immediately, doesn't she?
And here she didn't run screaming from the store or go catatonic.  Either she had a dose of medication recently, or her mellowing out has reached a new stage.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Jun 2013, 23:39
Quote from: wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment#Project_Thor)
Project Thor

Project Thor is an idea for a weapons system that launches kinetic projectiles from Earth orbit to damage targets on the ground. Jerry Pournelle originated the concept while working in operations research at Boeing in the 1950s before becoming a science-fiction writer.[1][2]

The most described system is "an orbiting tungsten telephone pole with small fins and a computer in the back for guidance". The weapon can be down-scaled, an orbiting "crowbar" rather than a pole.[citation needed] The system described in the 2003 United States Air Force (USAF) report was that of 20-foot-long (6.1 m), 1-foot-diameter (0.30 m) tungsten rods, that are satellite controlled, and have global strike capability, with impact speeds of Mach 10.[3][4][5]

The time between deorbiting and impact would only be a few minutes, and depending on the orbits and positions in the orbits, the system would have a world-wide range.[citation needed] There is no requirement to deploy missiles, aircraft or other vehicles. Although the SALT II (1979) prohibited the deployment of orbital weapons of mass destruction, it did not prohibit the deployment of conventional weapons. The system is prohibited by neither the Outer Space Treaty nor the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.[4][6]

The idea is that the weapon would inflict damage because it moves at orbital velocities, at least 9 kilometers per second. Smaller weapons can deliver measured amounts of energy as small as a 225 kg conventional bomb.[citation needed] Some systems are quoted as having the yield of a small tactical nuclear bomb.[5] These designs are envisioned as a bunker buster.[4][7]
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 12 Jun 2013, 23:40
...now I feel bad

Please don't. That wasn't my intention, to cause distress, and you don't deserve to. Sorry.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mtmerrick on 12 Jun 2013, 23:44
Now there is a pest extermination method I strongly approve of :P

Also, yes he is Sam =D (and I bet he would actually appreciate being labeled as such :P)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2013, 23:53
I thought Hermione and Ginny got rid of all of them.

Dora, remember that you said you only approve of murdering customers after they've paid? The spiders in the basement could be customers for the cafe you mentioned in that one tweet. You could offer the spiders caffeine (http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm) and say "Do you want flies with that?".

How could Dora not have known there were that many spiders in her roasting area?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 13 Jun 2013, 00:18
The roasting area is near the one working light down there. 


Sam and Faye went 'splorin' in the less-well lit areas. 





Arrr, there be spiders...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 13 Jun 2013, 00:30
Yes, Sam.  Yes, he is.

I thought Hermione and Ginny got rid of all of them.

And here I was thinking Weird and Gilly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 13 Jun 2013, 00:57
Considering her parentage, threats or things that make her uncomfortable would always have had a very fast, VERY efficient solution.
Between her Dad's orbital weapons, and her Mum's elite mercenaries? Yeah, don't frighten the space-princess.

I wanted to befriend the intelligent spider and go into the silk business. Because, well... Silk!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 13 Jun 2013, 01:32
bulletproof designer garments?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: EspyPsyche on 13 Jun 2013, 02:06
There was no "terminate with extreme prejudice" option, so I went with "kill with fire".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lummer on 13 Jun 2013, 02:56
I for one think orbital bombardment is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with spiders.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mtmerrick on 13 Jun 2013, 02:57
Also, intelligent spider question:

If can be reasoned with/befrinded: sic on enemies.

If cannot be reasoned with/befriended: kill with fire (or tungsten rod)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TinPenguin on 13 Jun 2013, 03:06
Remember: four legs good, two legs bad, eight legs AWESOME.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 13 Jun 2013, 03:10
Four legs feed two legs; six legs feed eight legs.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lummer on 13 Jun 2013, 03:37
Four legs ALWAYS good!

Kitteh <3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: gopher on 13 Jun 2013, 04:13
I beleive the accepted procedure for dealing with spiders is birds, though it can get out of hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 13 Jun 2013, 04:16
And then you have a bird problem instead of a spider problem. Then you could get cats to deal with your bird problem. There is no such thing as a "cat problem". Just ask Eleanor Abernathy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Jun 2013, 04:20
A possible disagreement (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28839.msg1165449.html#msg1165449).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 13 Jun 2013, 04:24
And then you have a bird problem instead of a spider problem. Then you could get cats to deal with your bird problem.
I'm with you so far, but I fail to see how getting a goat is supposed to deal with your dog problem.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 13 Jun 2013, 04:25
I would like that app.

Just sayin' that an "orbital bombardment" option would make me the best BSM(Battery Sergeant Major) ever!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 13 Jun 2013, 04:39
I wonder how that works?
Walk into a place, tag a location, pick a payload and a minimum delay (to get outta there), and it tells you what satellites are on track for that intercept? And if there will be an additional delay, I guess.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Jun 2013, 05:16
So I had to check - there actually is an Orbital Bombardment (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/orbital-bombardment/id383270790?mt=8) app for iOS. Also Orbital Bombardment Lite (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/orbital-bombardment-lite/id387310631?mt=8).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 13 Jun 2013, 05:32
@Mr_Rose: Only if you use the Foursquare or LinkedIn add-on (really, who would use those sites? I always know where I am, even if I don't always know where I am supposed to be...).

Although, it could also be a useful add-on to Google Earth. They'll never know it's coming :evil:.

On the polls, I selected "Befriend" and "Create a spider army". I have no problem with spiders, really. Just not on me (I have a "touch me and you're dead!" policy to spiders, roaches, flies and mosquitoes). And the army f***ing because.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sam_bedge on 13 Jun 2013, 05:52
Faye has the 1000 mile stare on and just wandered out of frame - what IS she going to come back with? (place bets now) welding torch set Alien mode?. Ravens Coffee Spider get up?

As for spiders Love them to bits! unfortunately my wife does not feel quite the same way (not that she's scared just doesn't really like them)  and so I must contend myself with staring longingly into the tanks at my local exotic pet stores. Fortunately as i own a Bearded Dragon i get to go there regularly for locust (which are also cute and interesting in their own right)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 13 Jun 2013, 05:59
I am again curious, why are the spiders themselves a heath hazard?

*Fist pump* Yes! Controversy!

But it's mostly that 'unestablished definitions' thing again. I was talking about trigger warnings in the internet sense of an alert that something may be uncomfortable angering, or disgusting to the viewer, not trauma triggers (seriously, going from movie creepy crawlies to PTSD is quite a leap), not bullies or phobias (it was strongly indicated, and has been confirmed, that ihaveavoice was fearful, not phobic) or NSFW tags or parental advisements or whatever else. I was strictly arguing against giving such warnings because they ignore the responsibility people have to inform themselves (does this movie have bugs? let's check!), to analyze (this), and to avoid (mute/power/back button).

Also, Shjade, that sucks for your friend, but if she has such a serious condition I put it on her to ask a person if something is alarming (unless said person was a good friend that already knew) before going to an unknown link and scrolling down.

J was pretty much spot on as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry I didn't link to specific comments, but they are long and this is already very long.

Comparing a recognised clinical condition with a non-clinical "phobia" which is in fact prejudice is indeed belittling.  Of course, it would be better if homophobia was referred to as homomisia (meaning hatred of or disgust for homosexuality) - but that won't happen.
I did not realize until checking after your comment that it wasn't a clinical definition. Darn culture and it's appropriation of words for inaccurate uses.

What did Gandalf say about staying on the path?
I didn't realize I had crossed into Mirkwood!

You forgot the obvious:
"Nuke it from orbit. Just to be sure."
But the Federation inexplicably doesn't do orbital bombardment, just masses of troops with mininukes and assault rifles. Pity the mobile infantry.

SIGH
You know, a lot of people have a visceral reaction even to the idea that Intersex people might exist.
It's a lot like their reaction to the idea of intelligent spiders.
I know the poll's a joke. No offense intended. I shouldn't take it too seriously, and I don't.
But you know what? In my mind I substitute "Zoe Brain" for "Intelligent Spider". Then look at the responses from the good, cluey, kinder than average people here.
Tell me - would your vote changed if an intelligent spider wrote a comment like this one?
I was surprised at the number of people that focused on 'spider' and went the kill route, not 'intelligent' and running or befriending. Since all the options are available and equal, it is known to the person choosing that the spider is intelligent and befriendable.

There's a scifi series I'm reading called The Lost Fleet which a couple books ago introduced a species that was half spider, half wolf, and all ugly, and human sized to boot. Despite that, it's the only alien species that humanity has run across whose response to contact isn't hiding, fighting, or suicide, so the characters comment on suppressing their gut reactions to the first friendly species they've met- and the aesthetic beauty such outwardly ugly creatures create, from ships and programs that make their engineers and techs drool to shipmanship that makes the military command very impressed, and very grateful they aren't enemies.

A good chunk of the last book was escorting a diplomatic contingent of the 'Dancers,' as they get nicknamed after the less savory ones get stamped out, to Earth, for reasons they wont explain, which makes the characters very nervous and suspicious (it should be noted that humanity has long since spread to the stars and adopted an ancestor based religion, so Earth is the holy of holies to them). It turns out the reason was to return the body of a human explorer of hyperspace they found, and hadn't molested with any kind of physical examination, to the place a postcard in his capsule named- Lyons, Kansas.

I didn't include a study without capture option because I figured befriending it would be enough for that.

Lastly, here is what you get when you cross spiders with crabs and press 'supersize.' I love these things.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: toffee-skye on 13 Jun 2013, 06:08
re: trigger warnings. i was always told it was just a polite thing to do if you're discussing a touchy subject, e.g. specific acts of violence, or abuse. in my mind it isn't really coddling, it's more just an alert that this post might be upsetting and it might best be avoided. i mean, they do it for news stories over here in the UK; if there's a clip about violence in Syria showing injured people, the newsreader says, "this report contains images some viewers may find distressing" or words to that effect.

re: intelligent spiders. i tend to pretend the spider isn't there unless it's very large and right in front of me. but it is a good question, as i'm doing as ZoeB said and trying to substitute a person in place of the spider. i think to myself, i'd ask the spider to be out of my sight as large spiders make me uncomfortable, but when i put a person in place of the spider it seems really very rude and quite offensive to say "please move aside, i would like to come upstairs and people like you make me uncomfortable". that feels awful in my mind!

re: comic. good grief Hanners. i know i said previously that a basement full of spiders isn't my ideal holiday destination but that's a bit extreme.

Warning - while you were reading a new reply concerning deeply philosophical questions about spiders has been posted. You may wish to review your current prejudices to future spiders you come across.

well when you put it like that, i think i am prejudiced against spiders. and for some reason that makes me feel very sad. i'm sorry, spiders.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: judemorrigan on 13 Jun 2013, 06:23
I am again curious, why are the spiders themselves a heath hazard?
I imagine it's not the spiders themselves - it's presumably about the food supply that their existance implies.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 13 Jun 2013, 06:27
That many spiders means you've got an insect problem, and the insect problem carries pathogens. Especially when this occurs in an area where food prep is occurring...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2013, 07:11
Proper response to intelligent spider

Kill    7 (6.9%)
Kill with fire    19 (18.6%)
Ask someone else to kill it    3 (2.9%)
Run    4 (3.9%)
Befriend    13 (12.7%)
Befriend and start a spider silk company    15 (14.7%)
Befriend and sic on enemies    12 (11.8%)
Capture and study, because they shouldn't exist    7 (6.9%)
Use to create a spider army    8 (7.8%)
Offer waffles    11 (10.8%)
Offer Cheerios    3 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 58
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: drewdane on 13 Jun 2013, 07:15
I had to Google the word "fib." Is that an Eastern US word? It doesn't exist out here...
You clearly don't read enough.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 13 Jun 2013, 07:41
This is how you take care of it:


 There was an Old Lady

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a spider,
That wriggled and wiggled and tiggled inside her;
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - Perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a bird;
How absurd to swallow a bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - Perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a cat;
Fancy that to swallow a cat!
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - Perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady that swallowed a dog;
What a hog, to swallow a dog;
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - Perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a cow,
I don't know how she swallowed a cow;
She swallowed the cow to catch the dog,
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - Perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a horse...
She's dead, of course!

There was an Old Lady song
   
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 13 Jun 2013, 07:56
And the internet brings new meaning to those last couple lines...  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 13 Jun 2013, 09:27
That's what I was alluding to, except your version has somehow omitted the "just opened her throat and swallowed a goat" line / verse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ink slinger on 13 Jun 2013, 09:51
I appreciate that the answer to the question: "Is your dad a space wizard?" is basically: "Yes."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 10:01
"Yes. Yes, he is."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 13 Jun 2013, 10:15
i think to myself, i'd ask the spider to be out of my sight as large spiders make me uncomfortable, but when i put a person in place of the spider it seems really very rude and quite offensive to say "please move aside, i would like to come upstairs and people like you make me uncomfortable". that feels awful in my mind!

Now you know how Cinruskins like Dr Prilicla feel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sector_General

As regards intelligent spiders - read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky

But first read A Fire on the Deep.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 13 Jun 2013, 10:23
ILastly, here is what you get when you cross spiders with crabs and press 'supersize.' I love these things.
(click to show/hide)

Do you have enough garlic butter?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Madmartigan on 13 Jun 2013, 11:53
Orbital Bombardment App!?!?

I want one.  Kill the spiders!  Kill them with fiery, photonic blasts!

Seriously though.....Just goes to show how real Hanenrs world domination is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2013, 12:31
I had to Google the word "fib." Is that an Eastern US word? It doesn't exist out here...
You clearly don't read enough.

I've run into it far more often spoken than in print, although it's appeared in QC before.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 13 Jun 2013, 14:03
Next step: Dora and Faye get Dust 514 dropsuits.
Hannerdad: Minmatar or Caldari? In Rust We Trust or Hybrid Sniping Mangling?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2013, 14:14
Who has command authority over the orbital bombardment system, anyway? It's the sort of thing the USAF would want to control themselves.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Jun 2013, 14:15
This is how you take care of it:


 There was an Old Lady

You know, this would be much shorter if you were to define it recursively.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Jun 2013, 14:23
No, silly.  It's a sequence, not recursive; using recursion for that would be needlessly inefficient.  The most efficient would be a loop with an array containing the varying elements; the most understandable a simple routine called for each verse with the varying elements as parameters.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 13 Jun 2013, 14:24
Both of these methods are left as an exercise for the student.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Jun 2013, 14:25
But you get quadratic running time on the loop, whereas with recursion you get... uhm. Damn. I forgot how to analyze this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 13 Jun 2013, 15:07
Who has command authority over the orbital bombardment system, anyway?
I remember that the question of who actually really runs Hannerdad's station has come up before. There are USAF personnel up there, we know, but the station is run by an AI who's in love with Daddy's little princess.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 15:08
I'm pretty sure Hannerdad allows them there as a courtesy, or at least to avoid a political mess that would cut into his sciencing time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2013, 15:19
A priori it would make sense for the AI to be far more in charge de facto than anyone else realizes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 15:24
I wonder if there are any high ranking AIs in the US military.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 13 Jun 2013, 15:40
i'm pretty sure there are international treaties against the weaponization of space. one thing the us & ussr managed to agree on was that space-based weapons were a bad idea.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 15:42
Aren't international treaties only applicable to nations? I wouldn't be surprised if Hannerdad renounced his citizenship and considered himself a citizen of the universe. He does live in space, after all, and there's no indication he's been to Earth in decades.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 13 Jun 2013, 15:49
hmm, now that's an interesting question then. if he's basically a stateless entity, operating outside of any nation's jurisdiction, is he therefor not bound by any laws at all?

and if that's the case, then presumably he's probably not under the protection of any such laws either. so then is any country with the capability free to just shoot him down at their own discretion?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Jun 2013, 15:50
Aren't international treaties only applicable to nations?

Luckily, I happen to be a visitor of pointless sites, so I am aware of a possible legal precedent.

See why Hannerdad prolly doesn't own Station here (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/11/30/you-cant-own-the-sun-no-not-yours/).

This, of course, does not take into account the issue of Station having civil rights, for instance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 15:54
To Loki - Not being able to own a natural space object like a star or satellite doesn't mean you can't own a space station. That being said, I would say that Hannerdad probably owns the station, but he doesn't own Station.

To J - I'd be very surprised any country did have that capability.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: muon on 13 Jun 2013, 15:55
This, of course, does not take into account the issue of Station having civil rights, for instance.

And this brings up an interesting question in my mind. Do AIs have citizenship? I would hope they're legally entitled to some sort of citizenship, although with some AIs, such as Station, it's not clear what country they would be a citizen of. Perhaps AIs have their own government that they're citizens of? Or some sort of world AI union?

Warning - while you were typing a new AI gained sentience and posted in the forums. You may with to review your post. Or not, your call.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 16:00
That's why I made the distinction between Station and the station. Hannerdad probably owns the station, and Station might own anywhere from his main server to all the computing equipment on the station (at least the one he controls directly).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 13 Jun 2013, 16:33
The only problem with Hannelores idea is that sometimes things can get a little out of hand. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GImJdrCSOFA)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emoroffle on 13 Jun 2013, 16:46
I'm pretty sure the CIA can already do that whole tungsten rod orbital strike thing. I'm sure Hanner's dad would have something much cooler in his toolkit. Say a gravitic implosion device? Seriously if you twist light the right way you can create gravity wells with it. Physics rocks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2013, 16:56
AIs have equal civil rights to humans under a recent Constitutional amendment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 13 Jun 2013, 17:01
but what about international law?




I'm pretty sure the CIA can already do that whole tungsten rod orbital strike thing. I'm sure Hanner's dad would have something much cooler in his toolkit. Say a gravitic implosion device? Seriously if you twist light the right way you can create gravity wells with it. Physics rocks.
while it's a simple enough idea that i wouldn't completely discount the possibility of such a weapon system existing, fiery death from the sky really doesn't seem like the company's style.




That's why I made the distinction between Station and the station. Hannerdad probably owns the station, and Station might own anywhere from his main server to all the computing equipment on the station (at least the one he controls directly).

staaation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIg_QFB9Vrw)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emoroffle on 13 Jun 2013, 17:05
Kinetic munitions aren't very fiery, but I get your point. Still I can see the military having something like that at its disposal for bunker and cave clearing. All the power of a nuke with no radiation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 13 Jun 2013, 18:27
How could Dora not have known there were that many spiders in her roasting area?

They mostly come out at night... mostly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mtmerrick on 13 Jun 2013, 18:38
This certainly does explain why there's military up on Station. :P it was kinda vague reasoning before, IIRC.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 13 Jun 2013, 18:51
Kinetic munitions aren't very fiery, but I get your point. Still I can see the military having something like that at its disposal for bunker and cave clearing. All the power of a nuke with no radiation.

well, i kind of imagine anything coming down through the atmosphere at mach 10 being fiery, due to friction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 13 Jun 2013, 18:59
Kinetic munitions aren't very fiery, but I get your point. Still I can see the military having something like that at its disposal for bunker and cave clearing. All the power of a nuke with no radiation.

At such high velocities? I think these tungsten rods are going to be really fiery when impacting. The air they compress in front of them is going to reach very high temperatures relatively quickly (once they reach the atmosphere of course. I guess they build up quite an impressive amount of kinetic energy before their acceleration gets slowed down by the atmosphere). Let's say the rod gets dropped from LEO (lower earth orbit), at approximately 400 km height. Usually atmospheric effects on reentry get noticeable at 120 km, so the rod accelerates for 280 km. That would result in approximately 2342 m/s which is 8431.2 km/h.

Here's a picture of a ballistic projectile of a railgun, made by the US Navy. It was a record shot, reaching a muzzle velocity of 2520 m/s. Comparable to the velocity of a tungsten rod, simply "dropped" from the height of the ISS.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Railgun_usnavy_2008.jpg)

That "fireball" is a cloud of plasma created by the pressure difference between the front and the rear. Near vacuum behind the projectile, incredibly high pressure in front of it.

Edit: More info: The temperature is not caused by friction, but the high pressures, same at reentrance of a space shuttle. And while this power of this rod might look impressive, remember that all the kinetic energy of the projectile needs to be invested as "potential energy" by getting it to that height. Also it's a wrong assumption that the gravitational pull is the same at 400km, but I didn't feel like calculating it more complex. Also due to the high density of tungsten I think these rods are not as much influenced by the atmosphere as, say, a spacecraft.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: JohnTheWysard on 13 Jun 2013, 19:57
I wonder if there are any high ranking AIs in the US military.

I would recommend against seriously investigating that question. ESPECIALLY online.

I've said too much... signing off!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 13 Jun 2013, 20:25
i wonder how the rank structure & advancement would work for AIs. in theory at least, a soldier gains rank over time with experience, but a computer can just download the necessary knowledge directly. maybe even copy the relevant 'memory' files from other computers and synch up with their experiences.

i would assume that AIs are basically assigned to whatever their jobs are and uploaded with relevant information and drivers.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 13 Jun 2013, 20:26
I wonder if there are any high ranking AIs in the US military.
The La Li Lu Le Lo?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 20:38
Quote
Quote
I wonder if there are any high ranking AIs in the US military.
I would recommend against seriously investigating that question. ESPECIALLY online.
In the QCverse :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 13 Jun 2013, 20:46
Deep, calming breaths, Sam.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jon3831 on 13 Jun 2013, 21:22
Next step: Dora and Faye get Dust 514 dropsuits.
Hannerdad: Minmatar or Caldari? In Rust We Trust or Hybrid Sniping Mangling?

AMARR VICTOR

That's all I got. Except an orbital bombardment app would be cool.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 13 Jun 2013, 21:25
Yesterday's comic makes me want to fire up Kerbal Space Program and build an orbital bombardment launcher...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mtmerrick on 13 Jun 2013, 21:57
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/mtmerrick/screenshots/screenshot_2013-06-13-21-52-10.png)

Bottom left corner. That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 13 Jun 2013, 22:04
Quote
AMARR VICTOR

Hannerdad does not strike me as a religious fanatic. Plus Station's designe is closer to Minmatar or Caldari designs. Unless he uses Jove technology? (That would be a twist...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2013, 22:13
The tungsten rods would get most of their energy from their former orbital velocity, not from the height difference.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: westrim on 13 Jun 2013, 22:25
This certainly does explain why there's military up on Station. :P it was kinda vague reasoning before, IIRC.
I just figured they were funding research into lasers or something and protecting their investment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2013, 22:43
I'd be jealous too, Sam.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackjoker on 13 Jun 2013, 23:55
I believe this young lady is over-gasped
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Skewbrow on 13 Jun 2013, 23:59
I dare not guess what the impact velocity of a tungsten rod "dropped" from the orbit would be. The orbit speed is about 8 km/s or Mach 25. To make it fall from the orbit at all, they need to give it a shove in the opposite direction for otherwise the rod would just continue its free fall motion along the station. The bigger the shove the faster it will fall from the orbit. But unless you spend a lot of energy (that they don't have at the station), the rod would enter atmosphere at a relatively small angle, and thus might continue to lose speed for a long time.
It would not be like a space shuttle, landing sedately at about 200 mph, but atmospheric drag would eat a significant chunk of the speed. Would anyone have a clue about the speed of the Apollo landing modules after entering the atmosphere, but before they opened the parachutes? A tungsten rod would fall faster than that (weight, shape).

Here (http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs/faqf/#12) it is explained that a 10-ton meteorite will retain only 6 per cent of its cosmic speed after surviving the upper atmosphere. A tungsten rod could be a bit heavier (also the density of tungsten is much higher than that of "ordinary space rock", so it would lose less), but sounds like Mach 10 is pushing it unless the rods are very massive (and thus also expensive to hoist to the orbit in the first place).

TL; DR; Orbital bombardment doesn't sound very energy efficient. You spend a huge amount of energy to get that mass into orbit only to have atmospheric drag consume most of it when falling.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 14 Jun 2013, 00:12
Unless you extract the tungsten IN SPACE!
You only need Planetary Interaction to produce Fuel Blocks and Outpost materials (I think I should cut back on EVE a bit...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 14 Jun 2013, 00:22
Railguns are more efficient for kinetic kill weapons, all the fun of small yield nuclear weapons with none of the fall out!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 14 Jun 2013, 01:05
i'm pretty sure there are international treaties against the weaponization of space. one thing the us & ussr managed to agree on was that space-based weapons were a bad idea.
There are treaties prohibited placing "weapons of mass destruction" in space, but there is no restriction on "conventional" weapons, I believe. The "Outer Space Treaty (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967)" certainly makes that distinction. With regard to the legal status of orbital habitats, Article VI (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967#Article_VI) is relevant, and gives additional point to the USAF personnel on the station.

To make it fall from the orbit at all, they need to give it a shove in the opposite direction for otherwise the rod would just continue its free fall motion along the station. The bigger the shove the faster it will fall from the orbit. But unless you spend a lot of energy (that they don't have at the station),
Where do you get the energy-shortage from? Hannerdad has a space-plane that can fly directly from a normal airfield to orbit. I doubt if attaching simple retro-rockets to his rods would pose much of a challenge. He'd just need the equivalent of a torpedo-tube to push the rod away from the station (assuming he has no other launch-platform), and then fire a single-use, jettisonable retro-rocket of the sort that was used to deorbit the Mercury capsules.

Breathe, Sam, breathe!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 14 Jun 2013, 01:44
TL; DR; Orbital bombardment doesn't sound very energy efficient. You spend a huge amount of energy to get that mass into orbit only to have atmospheric drag consume most of it when falling.

Only if in a circular orbit. A high eccentricity "Molniya" type orbit, all you need is a slight nudge at apogee. That way perigee would be inside the Earth ie you get re-entry, at a near-normal angle if you do it right.

(http://www.satcom.co.uk/images/Presentations/rpcstl3s3a.gif)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n8RUgUG0Jfk/ScO85fgpoWI/AAAAAAAAAr8/puxPeF4kjJM/s400/USA200_orb.png)

See the description under my icon.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Skewbrow on 14 Jun 2013, 01:57
True. But would that change affect the impact speed significantly? Possibly, as the projectile will not necessarily be entering the atmosphere at a small angle. I realize that the comparison to meteorites in my previous post was off the mark because of this: a smaller angle of entry means that MORE of the kinetic energy will be lost due to atmospheric drag!)

What about response time? You could only launch within a narrow window near apogee, so for this to be part of a weapon system you either need to wait for one of the stations to be at the right place or have many more stations forming a network (for planetwide coverage)? If the main use of these would be penetrate bunkers and such, then you may afford to wait for a couple of hours, so may be this point is moot?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PintsizeForPresident on 14 Jun 2013, 03:02
Would anyone have a clue about the speed of the Apollo landing modules after entering the atmosphere, but before they opened the parachutes? A tungsten rod would fall faster than that (weight, shape).

I think the re-entry speed of ICBM re-entry vehicles would give a better estimate. IIRC these have a pretty high terminal velocity, to minimize response time as much as possible. Apollo, on the other hand, was designed to "gently" (if 9 g is your idea of gently) decelerate the craft, to keep its passengers alive.

Then again, researching this topic on the internet may not be the wisest thing to do... That being said, this wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM) notes that "impact is at a speed of up to 4 km/s".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Skewbrow on 14 Jun 2013, 04:33
Ahh! Good point about Apollo. I agree that ICBM is the more realistic comparison, so 4km/s (Mach 12) is close to the mark.

This has been a good discussion in the sense that I may have learned a few things.  This article  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_entry) was a good read (for me).

Where do you get the energy-shortage from? Hannerdad has a space-plane that can fly directly from a normal airfield to orbit. I doubt if attaching simple retro-rockets to his rods would pose much of a challenge. He'd just need the equivalent of a torpedo-tube to push the rod away from the station (assuming he has no other launch-platform), and then fire a single-use, jettisonable retro-rocket of the sort that was used to deorbit the Mercury capsules.

I concede the point that it would be trivial for him to make something like a rod drop from the orbit. But what kind of trajectory would the dropping rod follow? The Mercury capsules were also meant to protect the pilot during re-entry, so the point raised by PFP stands. They were aiming at a small angle of attack. So I don't know how much delta vee they could get, or need, from the retro rocket. I would think that when dropping an object from a low altitude orbit it goes roughly like: more delta vee => steeper descent, larger angle of attack =>  less time for the atmospheric drag to slow the object down (but also more severe heating) => higher impact speed.

All this while I've been ignoring the need for a manouverable re-entry. I would think that this is a must, if you want to hit something the size of a bunker (or the basement of CoD).

See the description under my icon.
No need for that. Your drawing and explanation was clear enough. FYI (in case it matters how you choose to communicate) my PhD was in abstract algebra. I studied quite a bit of theoretical physics as an undergrad, but my understanding of theoretical mechanics was never much higher than Spiegel's Schaum series book (to those who don't know: this is an admission of being relatively ignorant), and it has taken quite a few hits in the 30 years that have passed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 14 Jun 2013, 05:03
It's still cool - even if impractical.

Anyone else hear Mr. Rhys-Davies line from the Two Towers?  (Keep breathing, that's the ticket.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 14 Jun 2013, 07:42
TL; DR; Orbital bombardment doesn't sound very energy efficient. You spend a huge amount of energy to get that mass into orbit only to have atmospheric drag consume most of it when falling.

Only if in a circular orbit. A high eccentricity "Molniya" type orbit, all you need is a slight nudge at apogee. That way perigee would be inside the Earth ie you get re-entry, at a near-normal angle if you do it right.
Yes, but then your options where to enter the atmosphere are much more limited.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PintsizeForPresident on 14 Jun 2013, 07:46
So I don't know how much delta vee they could get, or need, from the retro rocket.

A few 100 meters per second is enough for re-entry from low earth orbit. You could easily attain that by firing a gun from a space station, backwards.

If you are so inclined, you could see for yourself how re-entry works with Orbiter (http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/index.html). It is a very good, realistic spaceflight simulator, with a tech level that's on par with the QCVerse (i.e., single stage to orbit spaceplanes). It is a bit like a flight sim, in that it lets you perform all necessary maneuvers by hand. It also lets you do dockings with a space station, moon landings (and you can accelerate time to make it less tedious) and even interplanetary flight. And if you really want to go hardcore, there's an Apollo package which includes an emulator for the Apollo Guidance Computer that runs a copy of the original software.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ink slinger on 14 Jun 2013, 09:06
Shouldn't the current poll question have an obligatory: "I, for one, welcome our new intelligent spider overlords?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 14 Jun 2013, 11:18
Shouldn't the current poll question have an obligatory: "I, for one, welcome our new intelligent spider overlords?"

That's covered if you vote for both "offer waffles" and "offer Cheerios."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: slydon on 14 Jun 2013, 12:43
I used to think Jeph (http://www.unintentionallypretentious.com/index.asp?c=117) reads (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1916) my (http://www.unintentionallypretentious.com/index.asp?c=121) comics (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1923).

Last week (http://www.unintentionallypretentious.com/index.asp?c=224)

I want to think it's coincidental, but still, DANG.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: 94ssd on 14 Jun 2013, 13:37
Okay, so Dora is fine with knife sharpening, blowtorch lessons, and sword making. But when Sam gets over-excited about something (that's admittedly pretty awesome), THAT's when she starts to thinks maybe Coffee of Doom is unsafe for children.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jun 2013, 14:03
It was probably a cumulative thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 14 Jun 2013, 14:07
Okay, so Dora is fine with knife sharpening, blowtorch lessons, and sword making. But when Sam gets over-excited about something (that's admittedly pretty awesome), THAT's when she starts to thinks maybe Coffee of Doom is unsafe for children.

I think that was the joke.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 14 Jun 2013, 14:26
Oxygen deprivation


Hmmmm, she must already be imagining being in space.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 14 Jun 2013, 14:32
For a moment I thought I was in the wrong thread. Enough said.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 14 Jun 2013, 15:38
I just noticed how long it's been since we've seen Wil the last time. The latest comic with him seems to be 2023 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2023), where he is bartender. That's right at the beginning of the Padme arc, before the space arc and even before the introduction of the interns. wtf.

I want a Penelope/Wil story arc!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 15 Jun 2013, 07:53
Someone should introduce Sam to Clinton.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 15 Jun 2013, 08:02
Meh. What does he know about Pokemon?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 15 Jun 2013, 08:49
so, you're saying she should hang out with marigold?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 15 Jun 2013, 09:06
That would be a dynamic to observe, wouldn't it?

Speaking tangentially of that, Hannelore is handling Sam's invasion of her personal space rather well, considering Sam's recent demonstration of inattention to personal hygeine.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 15 Jun 2013, 15:20
 Sam's gonna befriend everyone on QC but Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 15 Jun 2013, 15:24
I am loving the colours of Hammelore's outfit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 15 Jun 2013, 15:28
Meh. What does he know about Pokemon?

Spinarak?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 15 Jun 2013, 15:34
Railguns are more efficient for kinetic kill weapons, all the fun of small yield nuclear weapons with none of the fall out!

(http://i.imgur.com/GRVchoC.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Jun 2013, 17:07
That's the second time I've misread "railguns" as "religion".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 15 Jun 2013, 17:22
I'm not sure if religions are as fall out safe as railguns.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mtmerrick on 15 Jun 2013, 17:24
Well religion is a pretty nasty weapon.

Warning - while you were typing a better retort than yours has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

No forum, I will not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 15 Jun 2013, 22:46
I'm not sure if religions are as fall out safe as railguns.

There is at least one documented case of religious fall out

(click to show/hide)
and none from railguns.

This was bad and I should feel bad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2465-2469 (10-14 June, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Jun 2013, 03:40
No, it's been covered.  :-D

<= Big fan of Salvation by Grace. That'd make a great neo-metal Christian band name.