Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Kugai on 08 Dec 2013, 11:45

Title: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Dec 2013, 11:45
Another week, another Poll.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Dec 2013, 11:58
Thanks for taking care of it. I've had... one of THOSE weekends.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 08 Dec 2013, 12:28
Quote
Hannelore
*cough*

Quote
PINTSIZE all week (with optional Yelling Bird)

I am afraid the Yelling Bird is not optional. (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/408650388163006464)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Dec 2013, 12:35
No problem jwhouk, my usual rule of thumb for me Posting a new WCT Thread is that if there isn't one up by 09:00 - 10:00 my time (or later) on Monday when I get in, I'll throw one up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 08 Dec 2013, 13:09
Quote
Hannelore
*cough*

Quote
PINTSIZE all week (with optional Yelling Bird)

I am afraid the Yelling Bird is not optional. (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/408650388163006464)

Mentions multiple questions two tweets later, so it's all week long. Oh well, it's been a while since we saw the screaming bastard in the strip!!!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Dec 2013, 20:12
Snow!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 08 Dec 2013, 22:03
Yelling Bird's Initial Pubic Offering is much like Facebook's IPO. Shoots up quickly, falls back down, eventually comes back again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Dec 2013, 22:11
Snow!

Edit: I have to admit I'm among those in this forum who would happily enjoy a whole week of YB... ymmdv
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 08 Dec 2013, 22:28
Are these  actual questions or conventioners' characters'  questions?

I just saw a really optimistic Joyce and kind of assumed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 08 Dec 2013, 22:28
Yelling Bird's Initial Pubic Offering is much like Facebook's IPO. Shoots up quickly, falls back down, eventually comes back again.

It also leaves a bad taste in your mouth, leaves everyone unsatisfied, and costs more than it is worth...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 08 Dec 2013, 22:29
Are these  actual questions or conventioners' characters'  questions?

I just saw a really optimistic Joyce and kind of assumed.

He mentioned it on his twitter, so unless he didn't like the questions received it's stuff people asked him to get a rise out of Yelling Birld
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 08 Dec 2013, 22:39
Loki, you know you can do more than cough :roll: I did it for ya, though. Also with Clinton and Emily, the weirdness isn't optional. Also it'd be hard for Penelope to serve herself pizza.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 08 Dec 2013, 23:01
Are these  actual questions or conventioners' characters'  questions?

I just saw a really optimistic Joyce and kind of assumed.

He mentioned it on his twitter, so unless he didn't like the questions received it's stuff people asked him to get a rise out of Yelling Birld

Joyce must be a very happy name.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Dec 2013, 23:46
The bird has it.

What, I refuse to speculate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Oglokoog on 09 Dec 2013, 00:03
Yelling Bird is an endless font of wisdom.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 09 Dec 2013, 00:59
The bird has it.

What, I refuse to speculate.
The more pertinent question is where he keeps it. Whatever the answer is, I don't want to know... :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 09 Dec 2013, 01:10
I'm pretty sure YB keeps most of his possessions in his cloaca.

When he's not stuffing Christmas ornaments in there that is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 09 Dec 2013, 02:22
... Also it'd be hard for Penelope to serve herself pizza.

Penelope will be the only one on duty at CoD when Pizza Girl arrives. Faye remains steadfastly unconvinced.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Dec 2013, 05:46
I'm pretty sure YB keeps most of his possessions in his cloaca.

When he's not stuffing Christmas ornaments in there that is.
He also uses most of his possessions as Christmas ornaments.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 09 Dec 2013, 07:40
BRING ON THE HO-HO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RightInTheSquishyParts on 09 Dec 2013, 07:53
BRING ON THE HO-HO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES!!!

Fixed that for you.   8-)

(apologies if it's format-breaking, it looks ok on my monitor) 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Dec 2013, 08:21
SUMMON THE HO-HO-WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES!!!

Fixed that for you.   8-)

(apologies if it's format-breaking, it looks ok on my monitor) 
Fixed it further, and assured that it's now format breaking for all!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 09 Dec 2013, 10:03
Begin Format

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Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RightInTheSquishyParts on 09 Dec 2013, 11:59
SUMMON THE HO-HO-WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES!!!

Fixed that for you.   8-)

(apologies if it's format-breaking, it looks ok on my monitor) 
Fixed it further, and assured that it's now format breaking for all!

I was going to correct it the rest of the way, but I wasn't sure if it would be too offensive.    That's the last thing I want... no telling how many "professional sex industry workers"  read QC and would be offended by this.    Be my luck that they all come out and quote MY post as being offensive.     That's the way my luck runs lately.   :D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 09 Dec 2013, 12:27
Considering your basically 'Quoting' YB, there should be no issues.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RightInTheSquishyParts on 09 Dec 2013, 12:34
Considering your basically 'Quoting' YB, there should be no issues.

Yeah but Yelling Bird is a celebrity and can afford lawyers,  I cannot.   :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 09 Dec 2013, 15:15
Is YB's advice directed to the Joyce in a Certain Other Webcomic?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Dec 2013, 15:43
Is it called "Certain Other Webcomic"? Because that's an awesome name.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 09 Dec 2013, 16:22
Is YB's advice directed to the Joyce in a Certain Other Webcomic?

Pretty sure yes:

https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/408652196289343488
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Dec 2013, 19:25
Proof positive that Dave Willis hates his readers, I'd say.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Dec 2013, 22:25
Oy, fuck off, Faye. That looked dangerously close to using it as a pejorative.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Dec 2013, 22:26
But the description they gave for the units of nerdiness does not describe a logarithmic system of units, Marten. You can, of course, define such a unit, i.e. the decibel of nerdiness,
dBn = 10 log_10 (N) ,
where N is the nerdiness in Nerd units. So, for example, Dale and Marigold, being kilo-nerds, would have a logarithmic nerdiness of 30 dBn.

Aiming for at least a 70 dBn post here...  :psyduck:

edit -- didn't read Jeph's blog post under the comic. I fail at nerding, apparently.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Dec 2013, 22:29
That was also perilously close to taunting Hanners about her lack of a romantic life. BAD Pugnacious Peach. NO Pugnacious Peach biscuit.

My favorite funny unit of measure is the "millihelen", an amount of beauty sufficient to launch one ship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Dec 2013, 22:30
I had read that as Faye taunting Marten, not Hannelore.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Dec 2013, 22:31
Oh yeah, the line about action was definitely aimed at Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 09 Dec 2013, 22:39
I'm more curious as to how nerdiness calculations would be more like quantum mechanics. Are there nerd wave functions where everyone has a certain chance of being at some level of nerdiness but then you come out with a Lord of the Rings or Avengers or Internet and everyone collapses into a big nationwide state which is made up of a certain amount of other states which can make the new wave functions for individuals or...

idk
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: akronnick on 09 Dec 2013, 22:49
This thread's like shooting fish in a barrel (http://xkcd.com/356/)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 09 Dec 2013, 23:04
Whether Faye's last remark is addressed at Marten or Hannelore, she is only half right. Both are nerds in their respective fields, but the first half of the characterisation fits neither of them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Near Lurker on 09 Dec 2013, 23:13
I'm sorry, did anyone think, at any point in this strip, that any major character (except Sara, Amanda, Scott, Padma, Greg, Cosette, or the non-Veronica parents) was not a nerd?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 09 Dec 2013, 23:28
 I'm thinking Marten's going to hook up with someone soon or he and Faye will both be single when Angus gets the job and moves to the big city.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 09 Dec 2013, 23:29
That was a rare moment where Faye actually annoyed me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Dec 2013, 23:30
Padma's not a nerd?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Delator on 09 Dec 2013, 23:55
Oy, fuck off, Faye. That looked dangerously close to using it as a pejorative.

A woman who makes dinosaur art projects and goes to work to poop in private has no business calling anyone else a nerd in a derogatory manner.

That was a rare moment where Faye actually annoyed me.

Rare?

Confusing bitchiness for wit is one of her consistent character traits.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 10 Dec 2013, 00:21
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :meh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 10 Dec 2013, 00:24
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :|


Wow, I didn't even catch this possible meaning at first.  So do fucking nerds do things (pun intended) like memorize half of Urban Dictionary, or know exactly who every extra in every porno is?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Dec 2013, 00:29
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :meh:

And the same applies to Marten. That was the point I was trying to make above.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Dec 2013, 01:00
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :|


Wow, I didn't even catch this possible meaning at first.  So do fucking nerds do things (pun intended) like memorize half of Urban Dictionary, or know exactly who every extra in every porno is?

I did not think of that meaning at all. I understood it as Hannelore not, to use Faye's terminology, gettin' any action.

But your interpretation is interesting. It raises the question: what do mega-nerds do? Obsess over the terminology of "mega"? Play the Mega role playing game?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 10 Dec 2013, 01:07
I'm more curious as to how nerdiness calculations would be more like quantum mechanics.
The famous thought-experiment Schrödinger's Nerd suggests that everybody is both a nerd and not a nerd at the same time in quantum superposition. The wave form collapses when you ask if it was the right move to leave Tom Bombadil and the barrow-wights out of the film based on Fellowship Of The Ring...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 10 Dec 2013, 01:50
Remember the early strips where she made music references and jokes about emo, goth, and other subcultures- she is a music nerd and a subculture nerd!  :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: greywolfe on 10 Dec 2013, 04:22
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :meh:

Dammit, couldn't resist [NSFW] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7giRak6yMAs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7giRak6yMAs)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Satan on 10 Dec 2013, 04:51
Why is Marten so tiny.
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :meh:

Dammit, couldn't resist [NSFW] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7giRak6yMAs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7giRak6yMAs)
I think a different  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM)TISM song is appropriate for Marten at the moment, however
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Dec 2013, 05:06
Why is Marten so tiny.

Perspective, and the fact that he's cut off at the edge of the strip.

Quote
a different TISM song is appropriate for Marten at the moment, however

At this instant, perhaps; but he's been sexually active for about half the life of QC (across 1200 strips with Dora, and a bit with Padma), so he's not really seriously deprived.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 10 Dec 2013, 05:48
Hanners is a nerd, but not a fucking one.  :|


Wow, I didn't even catch this possible meaning at first.  So do fucking nerds do things (pun intended) like memorize half of Urban Dictionary, or know exactly who every extra in every porno is?

Nah Fucking Nerds tend to study Quantum Fetish Mechanics extensively.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 10 Dec 2013, 07:11
Is YB's advice directed to the Joyce in a Certain Other Webcomic?

Pretty sure yes:

https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/408652196289343488

So does this mean, that the Dumbiverse is the universe which also contains Yelling Bird, Harriet, Randy etc.? I mean, we already know that the ordinary QCverse seems to be connected to the Walkyverse, with the crossover appearing here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1550) and here (http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=1074).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RightInTheSquishyParts on 10 Dec 2013, 09:06

Quote
Jacques Frost ‏@jephjacques 1h

Okay that is as close to a hissy fit as I will allow myself to get.
----
Jacques Frost ‏@jephjacques 1h

Considering the stuff that's been going on behind the scenes these last few months I'm surprised there haven't been MORE shaky punchlines.
----
    Jacques Frost ‏@jephjacques 1h

    "You should consult Randall or Aaron before you do science comics" a great email to start my day

I hope we're not headed for a meltdown like when he cut his hand.   :-\
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Dec 2013, 09:23
Science comic? What science comic? Two of the characters know just about nothing about science, and Hannelore's science is so far ahead that it is incomprehensible to us anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 10 Dec 2013, 11:08
Science comic? There was as much science in that comic as there was in the whole Star Trek - Next Generation franchise onwards.

As for a Nerd-scale, I am more inclined to go with a model where general topics/foci of nerd interest form axis in a space of n dimensions.
Based on the Schrodinger model (Electron Cloud ) the 1s and 2s shells would cover general social and language knowledge levels (those would cover all axis to a specific value) and we would go on from there by differentiating the various p & d & other types of knowledge distributions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Dec 2013, 11:13
So you're saying nerds are fermions, and that multiple nerds cannot be in the same state of nerdiness. Eh, sure, why not? Does put a damper on any plans to create a Bose-Einstein nerdensate, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 10 Dec 2013, 12:05
I wonder if it's a geometric progression.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Dec 2013, 12:36
Why is Marten so tiny.

He is shrinking from Faye.

Everyone's missing the key point about considering the characters as wave functions. Amplitudes are complex: they have both a real and an imaginary part.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Case on 10 Dec 2013, 12:59
I'm more curious as to how nerdiness calculations would be more like quantum mechanics.
The famous thought-experiment Schrödinger's Nerd suggests that everybody is both a nerd and not a nerd at the same time in quantum superposition. The wave form collapses when you ask if it was the right move to leave Tom Bombadil and the barrow-wights out of the film based on Fellowship Of The Ring...

So you're saying nerds are fermions, and that multiple nerds cannot be in the same state of nerdiness. Eh, sure, why not? Does put a damper on any plans to create a Bose-Einstein nerdensate, though.

Hmmmmh, the quasi-particle exitations of the Dirac-Weyl Nerd-field theory are fermionic, obeying a Munroe-Zumino-Clifford algebra (MZC-CAR). The bulk "Having A Life" - field (HAV) opens a gap in the spectrum and the quasi-nerdon decays into a human, a verboseon (commonly dubbed "hipster-geek") and a nerdino.

However, it has recently been found that in theories with broken Tom-Bombadil-symmetry (see above) there is sign-change in the HAV field across an embedded hyper-plane and a corresponding sign change in the first nerd chern number (a topological invariant related to the Pontryagin winding number, defined as the integral of the Berry-curvature over the first Brillouin zone in Library space). Within this hyperplane, topological subgap states, dubbed protonerdons, can exist - the effect is related to the integer quantum hall effect found by von Klitzing in 1980 and the effective field theory is a modification of the Thouless-Kohmoto-Nightingale-den Nijs description of the latter. The protonerdon is topologically protected against impurities - it can even marry, or have kids, without being scattered - as long as it is kept in close proximity to a physics or math department.
The nerd conductance is quantised and it's conductance quantum has been named a Munroe (http://xkcd.com/1300/). Half a Munroe equates to roughly a PhD in physics, four Munroes get you tenure, Edward Witten had to be his usual showy self clocking out at twenty Munroes (or six and a half Sagans) and Stephen Hawking is estimated at around 15 to 17 Munroes, but withdrew consent to the measurement upon hearing of Wittens 20, and chased the interviewer down the hallway instead.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: draiden on 10 Dec 2013, 14:24
My favorite funny unit of measure is the "millihelen", an amount of beauty sufficient to launch one ship.
A Janet is less than a millihelen. A janet is an account of beauty to launch a few canoes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Tova on 10 Dec 2013, 18:44
That was a rare moment where Faye actually annoyed me.

Rare?

Confusing bitchiness for wit is one of her consistent character traits.

My annoyed reaction was rare, not her behaviour. Normally it doesn't bother me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Dec 2013, 20:46
Most adorable Marigold ever in panel 4...pre-realization, of course.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 10 Dec 2013, 21:47
I'm thinking Marten's going to hook up with someone soon or he and Faye will both be single when Angus gets the job and moves to the big city.

Not unless Faye breaks up with Angus before he leaves they won't. Not living in the same area isn't the same as becoming single.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Dec 2013, 21:49
I can say from experience that it isn't much better, but the distinction is still important.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 10 Dec 2013, 23:29
So you're saying nerds are fermions, and that multiple nerds cannot be in the same state of nerdiness. Eh, sure, why not? Does put a damper on any plans to create a Bose-Einstein nerdensate, though.
...

Okay, time to read up on particle physics again.

In the meantime, my physics nerdiness just got a -1 skill hit.  :-(
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 11 Dec 2013, 06:13
My favorite funny unit of measure is the "millihelen", an amount of beauty sufficient to launch one ship.
A Janet is less than a millihelen. A janet is an account of beauty to launch a few canoes.
Given a byzantine dromon bireme was 25 tons dwt, a plausible estimate of the average displacement of a mycenean ship is about 20 tons.

1 helen is therefore sufficient beauty to launch 20,000 tons of ship.
1 millihelen would launch 20 tons of ship, a decent sized yacht.
1 microhellen would launch a 20kg inflatable dinghy.

A janet is thus about 5 microhellens, enough for a couple of 40kg canoes.

A picohelen would launch a 20g small rubber duck, or half a dozen boats made of 115 gsm paper.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Dec 2013, 09:17
Who is Janet and why is she only 5 microhelens? Also wouldn't a nanohelen be required for that 20g rubber duck? A picohelen would launch 20mg, or a grain of rice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 11 Dec 2013, 09:19
A [nanohelen] would launch a 20g small rubber duck, or half a dozen boats made of 115 gsm paper.
... assuming A5 paper?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: specter177 on 11 Dec 2013, 09:30
So we'd need 5 helens to launch a new aircraft carrier?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: marsman57 on 11 Dec 2013, 10:06
Oh please go on a date Marigold. I want this to be resolved.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Dec 2013, 10:11
I bet a date would create more issues than it resolved.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: marsman57 on 11 Dec 2013, 10:28
I don't know. I was hoping they'd settle into a slightly awkward romance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 11 Dec 2013, 11:19
It worked for Wil and Penelope.

Keep pluggin' away there Momo.  And lets hope you don't have to use 'Threat Social Protocol' again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 11 Dec 2013, 15:10
... 1 helen is therefore sufficient beauty to launch 20,000 tons of ship.

So a laker, about 30,000 tons deadweight, would require roughly 1.5 helens, or one helen highwater.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: draiden on 11 Dec 2013, 15:21
Who is Janet and why is she only 5 microhelens? Also wouldn't a nanohelen be required for that 20g rubber duck? A picohelen would launch 20mg, or a grain of rice.

The unit of measures "Helen" was named after Helen Troy. Janet was her sister. She wasn't as pretty.
... 1 helen is therefore sufficient beauty to launch 20,000 tons of ship.

So a laker, about 30,000 tons deadweight, would require roughly 1.5 helens, or one helen highwater.
is "helen highwater" a new unit of measurement equal to 1.5 helens, or is "highwater" somewhere used to describe one half of something?

But anyway, I think this is being measured incorrectly. Beauty as a force only works against weight indirectly. Beauty causes one man to gather enough men to man the ships and sail after her. Depending on the efficiency of the ships, more or less men will be needed. So one ship could take three men to crew, or an older vessel that does the same job could take twice that many, meaning a girl would have to be twice as beautiful to have that ship manned. Or, say she wasn't so beautiful, but all the ships that came after her weighed more, but took less people to operate. She gets to have more weight moved for less beauty!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Dec 2013, 15:28
I know who Helen of Troy was...but her sister was Clytemnestra. So I ask again. Who the hell is Janet?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: draiden on 11 Dec 2013, 15:40
I know who Helen of Troy was...but her sister was Clytemnestra. So I ask again. Who the hell is Janet?
I'm trying to find you a link to the joke itself, but it's a joke from Mel Brooks' 2000 year old man skit.

Also, DAMN her actual sister got the shit end of the name straw.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 11 Dec 2013, 15:46
So we'd need 5 helens to launch a new aircraft carrier?

Or one Queen.  The Queen has infinitely adjustable launching powers, and so one Queen (abbreviation: QE-II) is the correct amount for any ship or boat whatever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 11 Dec 2013, 16:09
The Queen is even able to launch a Bohemian Rhapsody, which is saying a lot.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 11 Dec 2013, 20:09
And what does the Social Protocol say about this?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Dec 2013, 20:12
Damn, Marigold, that was seriously fucked up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: SageJiraiya on 11 Dec 2013, 20:15
Yeah, I know Mar's nervous about the whole thing, but expecting a sentient being to compensate her for their current existence is a bit harsh.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 11 Dec 2013, 20:32
Seems fine to me (provided Marigold takes $100 bucks or so off of Momo's debt).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Penquin47 on 11 Dec 2013, 21:05
No, "fine" would be Momo saying "I'll do it, but only if you take X off my debt."   Or Marigold offering it as a compromise.  Marigold does not get to hold Momo's debt over her to make her do whatever Marigold wants and expect Momo to remain her friend.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ElvisRevenge on 11 Dec 2013, 21:09
Yo, fuck Marigold, that is messed up. I don't care how immaturely distressed she is, that's bullshit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 11 Dec 2013, 21:14
If this is the way Mar acts to her friends, you gotta wonder how she'll be as a girlfriend.

Regarding whether it's fine or not: it depends on who you're dealing with, but I think it's not so much about the debt as it is about actually guilting your best friend into asking a guy out for you. 

Still, I couldn't help but smirk at the last line, "well you'd better ask Dale out on the way!".  Not sure if that was meant to be funny or not, but it seems way too silly to be a serious comment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 11 Dec 2013, 21:17
Geeze, I could have sworn that Momo is working at the library to pay Marigold back despite Marigold telling her she didn't have to.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 11 Dec 2013, 22:06
Momo should go to Sven's instead.  They could compare notes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1213).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Dec 2013, 22:11
Momo is right not to back down.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 11 Dec 2013, 22:15
There comes a point in time when things like this become unacceptable no matter the reason. Marigold has just entered that territory and has proven once again why I despise her with all my being. One day, Marigold's immature tantrums are going to cross that line that will inevitably force Momo to quit socializing with her. This sort of behavior is disgusting to a point that if Momo were human, it would be considered unacceptable and slavery at that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 11 Dec 2013, 22:48
 Damn, Marigold, just when I forgot all about the LAST time you were a horrible person.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 11 Dec 2013, 22:54
There comes a point in time when things like this become unacceptable no matter the reason. Marigold has just entered that territory and has proven once again why I despise her with all my being. One day, Marigold's immature tantrums are going to cross that line that will inevitably force Momo to quit socializing with her. This sort of behavior is disgusting to a point that if Momo were human, it would be considered unacceptable and slavery at that.

You forget that this is a "happy" comic. Just about all of the characters have undergone positive development over the course of the strip, and despite the occasional rocky parts, everybody is usually extremely nice/forgiving to each other. I would bet money that by the next morning (however many strips away that is), Momo will have forgiven Marigold for her outburst/actions and all will be well between them again (hopefully after she comes to her senses and apologizes, but possibly even if she doesn't). I do agree, though; if this were a real conversation, Marigold would have just crossed a line. To be honest, she probably would have alienated some or all of her friends by now anyway.

Not that I'm complaining. Real life sucks enough without the comic going out of its way to remind us and it's one of the reasons why I like the strip so much.

Of course, I could be wrong, and this is the start of a breakup on the Dora-Marten scale. But my money is against it. Again, though, I am not excusing Marigold at all; I'm just making the point that in this comic, her friends have been much more forgiving of her mistakes than they've had any right to be. (Which is great of them as people.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Delator on 11 Dec 2013, 23:12
It's like Faye and Marigold are competing this week to see which one gets to be my least favorite character.

"Two girls enter, one girl leaves!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Dec 2013, 23:28
It's both misconduct in itself, and it's bad for Marigold. Just when she's dealing with awkwardness and an unfamiliar situation, she goes and picks a fight with her best friend.

What happens when Hannelore asks why Momo is showing up at her door? We've seen how Hannelore can get when two of her friends are fighting. In fact, that was the trigger for her first incident of Hulking out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 11 Dec 2013, 23:41
...

Whats going on here ?  :?

Marigold is of low social skills. Are there really still people around who really havent noticed that yet ?  :?

She'll get better.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 12 Dec 2013, 00:09
Some of you are being very hard on Marigold.
She may be a grown woman, but she's clearly very inexperienced and frightened. I know that feeling well, and I knew it for far too many years. Yes, she's being pathetic and childish, but whatever she says to Momo, really she knows she's got to ask Dale out herself.

My hopeful expectation is that after much agonizing (which should provide some more entertainment for us) she'll screw up her courage and do the deed, and it will be a liberation for her. Dale is a good guy and obviously likes her:  he won't let her down.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2013, 00:10
UNPOPULAR OPINION HOUR~

Let me establish that yes, that was absolutely a fucked-up thing for Marigold to do, in terms of that you don't give a friend a gift and then hold it over their head later when you want something from them

BUT comparing to slavery: um what no, and even saying that she's trying to make Momo indebted for her current existence is...just not true? Because QC's AIs, as far as I understand it, are full infomorphs. They don't need their chassis to exist; at any time they can reupload to their network of personalities and select a new mode of interaction with the physical world at will. Honestly, Momo could have just retrieved her old chassis, reuploaded into it, and snapped "There. I don't owe you shit" if she really wanted to make a point. Hell, if and when she well and truly has had it with Marigold, she's fully within rights to break contract, take her expensive chassis that Marigold may still be obligated to make payments on if it happens, and start anew doing whatever. She could even feasibly sell the chassis, which Marigold would STILL have to make payments on, out of an income that I don't know where the fuck it comes from already, Social Security??? and apply for a job as a library AI in Boston, if the library work has given her a taste for it, or upload herself into a Keurig hyperbrewer and make gourmet coffee all day, and upload a free orientation routine that makes making coffee feel better than sex. And she still gets paid for it, of course, because Robot Civil Rights.

I...this drama feels manufactured and silly to me, I guess. It's outta nowhere and it relies on buying into a narrative of "alas poor robot" that I just cannot get, not when we've established that QC's AI population is freer than most humans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 12 Dec 2013, 00:13
...

Whats going on here ?  :?

Marigold is of low social skills. Are there really still people around who really havent noticed that yet ?  :?

She'll get better.

There are a couple steps between not knowing how to deal with social situations and being a villain in a Frank Capra flick and Marigold just went beyond being uncertain and shy straight to malevolently self-centered.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 12 Dec 2013, 00:18
Marigold does not get to hold Momo's debt over her to make her do whatever Marigold wants and expect Momo to remain her friend.
Yes, moral blackmail is a line you don't step over. Marigold certainly deserves "the look" Momo gives her. I didn't think Momo slept though, so I guess this is the equivalent of a "time out".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 12 Dec 2013, 00:50
Oh good grief!!!!    ::)

I like Marigold, but some days I wanna slap her silly for things like this.

Hanners is gonna hit the roof over this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 12 Dec 2013, 02:12
Quote
Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?

Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Dec 2013, 02:14
yeah, i'm expecting hannelore to seriously but gently chew her out over this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 12 Dec 2013, 02:17
She could even feasibly sell the chassis, which Marigold would STILL have to make payments on, out of an income that I don't know where the fuck it comes from already, Social Security???

Marigold works with computers. It may be that she works from home. Probably self employed. But we don't really know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Mlle Germain on 12 Dec 2013, 02:25
I also think Wil's and Marigold's case are not really on the same scale. As I read the comic, for Wil and Sven it has been understood from the start that for bailing Sven out, Sven would owe Wil a favour (presumably in a girl related context also). Whereas Marigold bought Momo the chassis as a friend to make her happy (possibly with the understanding that Momo would try to pay back the monetary debt, but nothing else), so to expect other favours for it in retrospective seems pretty shitty. Although I bet this is one of the times where Marigold just needs to cool off for a minute before feeling horrible and stupid about her own behaviour. Again. I hope this helps her to avoid such behaviour in the future. I like Marigold, but it's sad how often her immaturity results in her hurting her friends and I don't even think she realises this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 12 Dec 2013, 02:25
She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Dec 2013, 02:25
Fucking hell, Marigold.

If you're THAT immature, you probably shouldn't be in a relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 12 Dec 2013, 02:41
Marigold's poor social skills are irrelevant here.

Marigold is being a dick, but we all act like dicks when we're upset. Everyone says things they don't mean when they're frustrated, and real friendships survive this because feels are hurt, then repaired and transgressions forgiven.

Honestly, props to Jeph for showing his characters have shades of grey and can be imperfect, something that it's fair to say Jeph is quite good at in QC. People don't always get along. I have screaming arguments even with my closest friends and family.

Cool your beans, people, cool your beans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 12 Dec 2013, 02:47
I may be projecting a little, here, but it seems to me that Marigold has shown, on many occasions, signs of social anxiety disorders, and that right now she's on an anxiety-induced state of panic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2013, 02:55
Quote
Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?

Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).

Except she really isn't. The favors aren't on the same plane, but Momo's existence isn't tied to her chassis--Momo exists independently thereof. Marigold is clumsily and insincerely implying that Momo owes her her current physical interaction platform. Which is actually quite true, but the fact that Marigold is trying to use it as emotional blackmail is fucked up and hurtful--it's on the level of buying a friend a house and then pressuring them to do things for you because you bought them this nice house--but it isn't the same as claiming her as property.

She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.

Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.

This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 03:13
I wouldn't excuse this kind of behavior from anyone in a real life situation, and I won't excuse it now. Whether or not Marigold has low social skills is very pointless, by excusing it we enable Marigold to do it again and again and more frequently. There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them." You don't coddle someone and say "There there, it's okay, you can be a dick all you want."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Dec 2013, 03:22
This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

I'm actually not sure how all that would work.

There's a possibility that Momo's agreement to help pay Marigold back could be brought into court. It'd be weak, but she could be found partially liable for the costs of her chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2013, 03:31
I wouldn't excuse this kind of behavior from anyone in a real life situation, and I won't excuse it now. Whether or not Marigold has low social skills is very pointless, by excusing it we enable Marigold to do it again and again and more frequently. There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them." You don't coddle someone and say "There there, it's okay, you can be a dick all you want."
There comes a point in time when things like this become unacceptable no matter the reason. Marigold has just entered that territory and has proven once again why I despise her with all my being. One day, Marigold's immature tantrums are going to cross that line that will inevitably force Momo to quit socializing with her. This sort of behavior is disgusting to a point that if Momo were human, it would be considered unacceptable and slavery at that.

1.) Moral stances work a lot better when you don't previously indicate you have a character assassination agenda. Just saying.
2.) I won't ask you to condone her behavior, but the slavery thing is pure hyperbole.

I'm actually not sure how all that would work.

There's a possibility that Momo's agreement to help pay Marigold back could be brought into court. It'd be weak, but she could be found partially liable for the costs of her chassis.


Yeah, but Marigold said it was a gift in the presence of the chassis sales rep, who could be relied upon as a witness for the defense. Also, Northampton seems to be pretty pro-AI politically--hell, the whole world does. The one time we hear about AI oppression in any form is a fundie talks bad about them one time. Once. It's never brought up again, and Momo certainly doesn't have to live in fear like Claire does to a degree because transphobia is real and can't be escaped from.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: dps on 12 Dec 2013, 03:42
Quote
Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?

Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).

Except she really isn't. The favors aren't on the same plane, but Momo's existence isn't tied to her chassis--Momo exists independently thereof. Marigold is clumsily and insincerely implying that Momo owes her her current physical interaction platform. Which is actually quite true, but the fact that Marigold is trying to use it as emotional blackmail is fucked up and hurtful--it's on the level of buying a friend a house and then pressuring them to do things for you because you bought them this nice house--but it isn't the same as claiming her as property.

IIRC, Momo got a job in order to pay Marigold back for the new chassis.  So yeah, she owes her, but in the same sense my mom owes the bank for her new car--financially.  Doesn't mean the bank president can call up my mom and pressure her to sort out his love life for her.
She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.

Quote
Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.

Uhm, I don't remember us meeting Marigold's father.  What strip was that?

Quote
This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

If her father cut ties, Marigold could presumably get another job.  Though of course, it's not guaranteed that she would find one, but how is that different from the situation of anyone else who works for a living?  Dora could fire Faye or any of her other employees at any time, Marten could get fired from the library, etc.

Quote
This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.

Would you want a friend to treat you the way Marigold just treated Momo?  Your existance presumably isn't dependent on your continued friendship;  you deal with your friends by choice, and could walk away at any time.  That's not to say that you can't forgive a friend for being a dick (if you want any friends, you better forgive theem, 'cause we're all dicks at some time), but it doesn't make it OK for them to be dickish towards you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 03:44
1. I have specific standards in place that I judge people by. So even if I didn't like them, I'd judge them on the same level as someone that I like, or even friends with for that matter.
2. If this were the nineteenth century and Marigold bought a slave their freedom, she'd still do it and that is what angers me. As awkward as Hannelore is, even socially, she would never do anything like this (which is why she's kind've a yard stick to me). If we go around saying "she has bad social skills and feels awkward around people", we may as well be saying that we'd have done it ourselves. You NEED to hold people accountable, no matter their behavior. If we lose that, then we lose the right to tell right from wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 12 Dec 2013, 03:50
You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 03:59
You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.

On the contrary, if I did something in relation to what Marigold had attempted to pull, I'd EXPECT someone to hold me accountable. But then again, I'd have never made that mistake in the first place. The point of holding someone accountable is an indication that they were wrong and their actions can't be merely excused due to something such as their behavior. You CAN forgive them on the other hand and teach them why they were wrong, provided they want to learn... which is what bothers me about Marigold. I am not confident in her ability in understanding which is socially right or wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2013, 04:16
This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

If her father cut ties, Marigold could presumably get another job.  Though of course, it's not guaranteed that she would find one, but how is that different from the situation of anyone else who works for a living?  Dora could fire Faye or any of her other employees at any time, Marten could get fired from the library, etc.

The thing is that Marigold is (I presume/hypothesize) in a very vulnerable financial situation, much more so than any of her peers, thanks to her investment in Momo's chassis--a situation which could easily make her homeless and without support. Sure, she'd have Angus, but how long do you think he wants to take care of her? And how well do you really think she'd do finding a job, given her social skillset and the fact she works for her dad at the moment?

I will give you that her situation isn't that dissimilar...from the rest of QC's human cast. The AIs, on the other hand, can escape humans and our backwards society at any time, on a whim, and then re-enter it on another. Humans can't.

This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.

Would you want a friend to treat you the way Marigold just treated Momo?  Your existance presumably isn't dependent on your continued friendship;  you deal with your friends by choice, and could walk away at any time.  That's not to say that you can't forgive a friend for being a dick (if you want any friends, you better forgive theem, 'cause we're all dicks at some time), but it doesn't make it OK for them to be dickish towards you.

See earlier in the post where I note it's an entirely fucked up and hurtful thing for Marigold to do. That is absolutely true. HOWEVER, it doesn't have undertones of slavery, and I don't agree with the AI social issues gettin' real thing that seems to be an undertone here. It's my observation that robots/AIs are not a minority nor an oppressed class in the QC universe, and it's frankly silly to ask me to believe they are.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Dec 2013, 04:43
You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.

GM just glass people when people do stupid things to hurt GM. GM finds empty pint glass effective cu...com... communication tool!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 05:06
You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives.


Interestingly enough, I can't actually remember doing so.  (I have definitely said things that I later regret, even not that much later, but I don't remember ever doing it out of anger specifically; it's either been fear or a misplaced sense of humor that usually gets me.)  I think this is probably a lot more common then most people suppose; I think a lot of what people think of as "doing something out of anger" is actually much closer to "doing something out of fear".


Heck, this even applies to Marigold here.  I would be hard-pressed to believe that she was actually angry at Momo; she's definitely panicking over her feelings regarding Dale, though, and that's an established reason both for people in general and for her specifically to start acting immaturely.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Dec 2013, 05:17
And I didn't say that I didn't have my own moments of immaturity.

Just that that level of immaturity doesn't bode well for a relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Satan on 12 Dec 2013, 05:24
She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.

Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.
Wait, isn't the only time MariDad has been in the comic when he was angry about Steampunk? I don't think it's fair to judge him as capricious and violent tempered over that. It's a perfectly sensible reaction to most steampunkery-related shenanigans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Dec 2013, 05:26
Shenanigears.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 05:33
Wait, isn't the only time MariDad has been in the comic when he was angry about Steampunk? I don't think it's fair to judge him as capricious and violent tempered over that. It's a perfectly sensible reaction to most steampunkery-related shenanigans.


He was "present" over the phone during the arc when Hannelore and Marigold were in the same house for the night and Hanners caught Mar-Bear red-handed playing with her DS (or the equivalent).  I think that was the first time he actually appeared, to any extent, in the comic, although Marigold had mentioned him before that regarding "pay[ing] taxes and everything!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 12 Dec 2013, 05:34
just glue some gears on it and call it steampunk...

Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 05:36
Just that that level of immaturity doesn't bode well for a relationship.


I would agree, but I would also add that she cannot possibly get any better at relationships then she is at the moment without practice.  Even Hanners recognized this, although her motivations for the "date" with Sven were slightly different.  :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 12 Dec 2013, 06:01
You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.

On the contrary, if I did something in relation to what Marigold had attempted to pull, I'd EXPECT someone to hold me accountable. But then again, I'd have never made that mistake in the first place. The point of holding someone accountable is an indication that they were wrong and their actions can't be merely excused due to something such as their behavior. You CAN forgive them on the other hand and teach them why they were wrong, provided they want to learn... which is what bothers me about Marigold. I am not confident in her ability in understanding which is socially right or wrong.

I'm not saying not to hold her accountable, or that she is in the right, or to excuse the behaviour. I am just saying I'd forgive my friends for such things once they apologised, which Marigold will obviously do.

Interestingly enough, I can't actually remember doing so.  (I have definitely said things that I later regret, even not that much later, but I don't remember ever doing it out of anger specifically; it's either been fear or a misplaced sense of humor that usually gets me.)  I think this is probably a lot more common then most people suppose; I think a lot of what people think of as "doing something out of anger" is actually much closer to "doing something out of fear".


Heck, this even applies to Marigold here.  I would be hard-pressed to believe that she was actually angry at Momo; she's definitely panicking over her feelings regarding Dale, though, and that's an established reason both for people in general and for her specifically to start acting immaturely.

Exactly. Anger is not the only reason we would say something we regret, and I'm not saying to just let it slide.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Black Sword on 12 Dec 2013, 06:12
Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 12 Dec 2013, 06:14
Wait, isn't the only time MariDad has been in the comic when he was angry about Steampunk? I don't think it's fair to judge him as capricious and violent tempered over that. It's a perfectly sensible reaction to most steampunkery-related shenanigans.


He was "present" over the phone during the arc when Hannelore and Marigold were in the same house for the night and Hanners caught Mar-Bear red-handed playing with her DS (or the equivalent).  I think that was the first time he actually appeared, to any extent, in the comic, although Marigold had mentioned him before that regarding "pay[ing] taxes and everything!"

That scene did certainly not paint him as some violently aggressive person. And judging from Marigold's reaction to him when he came shouting about steampunk, he does not frighten her, which he would have if he had ever been violent with her. Anyway, let's keep in mind that he has currently only been used as a supporting figure, and might not be a fully fleshed-out character in Jeph's mind.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to become violently aggressive.

NOOOO!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 06:18
Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)


But that would mean that they would regularly take severe damage from their own misplaced attacks … actually, never mind, that makes a disturbing amount of sense.   :-\
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 12 Dec 2013, 06:26
Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)
So then Catholics are like dragons in Pokemon (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Dragon_%28type%29).  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 12 Dec 2013, 08:01
There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them."
I don't know what you do for a living, but please, please tell me it's nothing that involves handling people with mental conditions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 12 Dec 2013, 08:21
I do not have the impression that Marigold's father is her only customer. When she buys Momo's new chassis. she says "I can afford it. I'll just eat ramen for a while." So she does have room for extravagant purchases in her budget. Not likely if she was in effect living on handouts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 12 Dec 2013, 08:33
I'm pretty sure that Marigold is employed by her dad in the same way that my stepmum is employed by mine: legally, as an employee of the company he owns. In which case, he couldn't just stop "giving out handouts" (aka "paying her wages") because she has an employment contract and could sue him for unfair dismissal. But why would he? How is she any more vulnerable than anyone else? Anyone's job can be terminated if a company folds or they fall out with management.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: judemorrigan on 12 Dec 2013, 08:58
There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them."
I don't know what you do for a living, but please, please tell me it's nothing that involves handling people with mental conditions.
Is there any reason to believe that Marigold has a mental condition?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2013, 09:10
Uhm, I don't remember us meeting Marigold's father.  What strip was that?

STEAMPUNK. EXPLAIN IT. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2198)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 09:25
Is there any reason to believe that Marigold has a mental condition?


Yes!  There is massive reason to believe it, for similar reasons to why I'm actually diagnosed with a mental condition.  No, I'm not insane, and neither is Marigold, but she's (and I'm) also definitely not acting normally.  Granted, our respective disorders are wildly different in symptomology, but that should only serve to underscore the fact the people can have all sorts of neuro- and/or psychological abnormalities.  I (unfortunately) don't have any kind of reasonable access to the DSM-V, but I'm absolutely certain that Marigold has some kind of diagnosable pathology, just Hannelore and Faye do (and probably Pintsize as well, as far as human-based disorders can extend into AIs).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: judemorrigan on 12 Dec 2013, 09:47
Meh, she's awkward and socially maladjusted sure.  Therapy probably wouldn't hurt.  I'm less convinced that it would be properly described as a pathology and even less convinced that excusing poor behavior on her part as a result of that maladjustment would be doing her any favors.  Sometimes calling people on their crap *is* the appropriate thing for friends to do.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 12 Dec 2013, 09:52
It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence.

No. She's telling Momo she owes her for the equivalent of plastic surgery. She bought her a new body, not a new life. Let's keep this in perspective, shall we?

And yes, this was a pretty shitty way for Marigold to act, but to be honest it could've been worse. "You owe me" isn't the same as "I own you." She's just not thinking about other people, again, or about the implications/consequences of what she's saying to them. Again.

Marigold's terrible at dealing with or thinking about other people. In other news, the sky is blue.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 09:53
Meh, she's awkward and socially maladjusted sure.  Therapy probably wouldn't hurt.  I'm less convinced that it would be properly described as a pathology and even less convinced that excusing poor behavior on her part as a result of that maladjustment would be doing her any favors.  Sometimes calling people on their crap *is* the appropriate thing for friends to do.

This. This is exactly what I've been saying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 09:57
Marigold's terrible at dealing with or thinking about other people. In other news, the sky is blue.


And it's the fact that people actually expect her to behave that way that, at this point, makes me think it's truly pathological.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 12 Dec 2013, 10:07
Is there any reason to believe that Marigold has a mental condition?
Here's a list of questions about Marigold:

I leave it to you to consider all these questions. They are not random, at all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: judemorrigan on 12 Dec 2013, 10:14
Oh, believe you me.  I'm well aware of how not-random those questions are.  The only reason I've never been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder is that I've never sought a diagnosis out.  And fair enough, I suppose.  But I still don't think it's a reason to not call her out on bad behavior.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone tell her she's a bad person who's bad.  But the fundamental message behind blacksisnow's suggetion is sound, even if it could be phrased rather more gently.  (ie, something rather more along the lines of, "Marigold.  We're your friends.  We care about you.  But you're acting terribly.  You're going to seriously damage your relationships if you keep it up."  And then offer what help one can, but not by enabling the bad behavior.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: NotAwesomeAnymore on 12 Dec 2013, 10:43
When people suggest Marigold has a mental disorder, do they mean she has something that needs to be treated with drugs? Because I suppose you could diagnose her and put her under a label. But I have a feeling she had bad social experiences when she was younger, and is naturally somewhat introverted -- and now she has some issues which could be resolved with a combination of therapy (to unpack the bad social experiences from when she was younger) and some good social experiences. I don't think there's an inherent chemical imbalance there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 12 Dec 2013, 11:01
It's like Faye and Marigold are competing this week to see which one gets to be my least favorite character.

"Two girls enter, one girl leaves!"

Nice.  Glad I'm not the only one who was particularly turned off by Faye's snark this week, especially about 2 strips or so ago.  "Fuckin' nerd", really?  People still talk like this?

Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 11:16
When people suggest Marigold has a mental disorder, do they mean she has something that needs to be treated with drugs?

At least from my perspective, no.  (I need them, but I'm aware that disorders with that level of severity are pretty rare.)


Because I suppose you could diagnose her and put her under a label. But I have a feeling she had bad social experiences when she was younger, and is naturally somewhat introverted -- and now she has some issues which could be resolved with a combination of therapy (to unpack the bad social experiences from when she was younger) and some good social experiences. I don't think there's an inherent chemical imbalance there.

Leaving completely aside the issue of whether or not every psych disorder is chemically based, I think perhaps "labeling" her might actually help her to overcome it.  I'm not sure, as I don't remember a time when I wasn't aware of some sort or other of psychiatric diagnosis that had been placed on me, so her response might be different, but I don't think so.  I think she would take comfort in the fact that her problems are actually not unknown.  It has nothing to do with assigning blame (I see way too many people here worried about whether or not her actions are "her fault") but a lot to do with how she perceives the relative level of uniqueness of her issues.  Yes, she still has to solve them, but knowing that they must be solvable because others before her have managed it might actually propel her quite a ways along the path to resolution.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 12 Dec 2013, 11:17
  "Fuckin' nerd", really?  People still talk like this?
Unfortunately yes, yes they do.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Dec 2013, 11:43
Marigold does not get to hold Momo's debt over her to make her do whatever Marigold wants and expect Momo to remain her friend.
Yes, moral blackmail is a line you don't step over. Marigold certainly deserves "the look" Momo gives her. I didn't think Momo slept though, so I guess this is the equivalent of a "time out".

Momo said she didn't need to sleep when she first talked about getting a job. On the other hand she has since talked about being able to sleep sitting up so that she doesn't require the couch to sleep on, and Jeph said something in a Q&A about all sentients needing sleep.

Jeph said Momo's difficulty finding a job was due to fictional Northampton's lousy job market. Marigold has a lot more marketable experience than Momo and can work remotely, but she still might have trouble finding a new position.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: marsman57 on 12 Dec 2013, 12:36
To start, let me note that I really don't like Marigold. She is boring, uninteresting, dramatic, insecure, and immature. She is exactly the type of person that I would likely know in real life through my nerdy social circles, would have as a friend on Facebook, but I would have absolutely no desire to go out of my way to see her despite feeling no ill will. I feel a bit more ill will toward her than I would her real life counterpart though because she is constantly thrown in my face and I can't escape her drama without discontinuing reading the strip. :)

That being said, I think she is being a bit harshly criticized here. When challenged and desperate, we as humans often lord over how good we have been to the other person. The prevailing opinion in the QC-niverse is that AI and human are equal, and therefore it can be argued that she is treating Momo in a very human way. Sure it is a bit crappy, but it is definitely not a master/slave relationship. She says, "you owe me" not "I own you". In fact, Momo is being a bit immature by running to her friend to stew rather than facing the situation there. Of course, that is just the part of me speaking that hates leaving stuff unresolved.

Also, I'll be flamed for this, but I really don't like how Jeph has slowly retconned the AI position in society and relation to the characters. Mainly creepy is the fact that some others have noted that AI really has the upper hand. It is like they have won the war without fighting it and humans are just left to think they are free. Of course, we only have a very limited view into the whole dynamic, so there may be more complicated layers than we are seeing. I mainly just don't like that we have gone from Momo calling Marigold her owner to a situation where she holds all the power in the relationship without any real "on-screen" development to show that change.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 13:36
Oh, believe you me.  I'm well aware of how not-random those questions are.  The only reason I've never been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder is that I've never sought a diagnosis out.  And fair enough, I suppose.  But I still don't think it's a reason to not call her out on bad behavior.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone tell her she's a bad person who's bad.  But the fundamental message behind blacksisnow's suggetion is sound, even if it could be phrased rather more gently.  (ie, something rather more along the lines of, "Marigold.  We're your friends.  We care about you.  But you're acting terribly.  You're going to seriously damage your relationships if you keep it up."  And then offer what help one can, but not by enabling the bad behavior.)

Exactly! You MUST hold people in Marigold's position accountable BEFORE you can help them. By holding them accountable, you put them in a position that allows them to identify how terrible they have behaved. I am by no means saying we should crucify her, but put her in a position that allows her to be treated. We've seen the result of Momo attempting to educate her about dating, it hasn't worked out all that well. I think that she CAN be helped, but not babied or enabled. Is it wierd that I think Hannelore is more normal then Marigold?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Fluffy Dragon on 12 Dec 2013, 13:55
For those wondering why everyone else seem to be so upset with Marigold, ponder this:

She is basically saying that as long as Momo has that body, she has a debt to Marigold.
The way Marigold phrases it, it's not even a monetary issue... it's not "you still haven't paid me back for that body." it's "If it weren't for me, you would still be small." (I leave you to think of all the implications of that "small".)

now add how big of a deal becoming human-sized was for Momo, and how Momo didn't have to pay Marigold back... It was a gift.
and now Marigold has shown herself capable of going back on that, for a relatively minor thing.
Momo even decided on her own to work to pay Marigold back... this one insensitive act from Marigold walks all over that with combat boots.

so now ask yourself, could you trust a friend who did that to you?

Momo looks really hurt in panel #4.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Dec 2013, 14:00
We knew about the recently passed AI ERA from on screen conversation and Momo has talked about AI rights more than once. Jeph has hinted that he might have shown more of it if it were funny.

Even so, the QC society is still one in which a character can get away with routine physical abuse of an AnthroPC. The Pugnacious Peach would be in Pugnacious Peach Prison if she were regularly denting the head of a human roommate. Clinton blatantly objectified Momo even though he should have known better. There's been no mention of AIs in government and only one (Station) in a professional job.

Even Marten has some prejudice, being unwilling to drink the coffee at LanPark.

Anyone who detests how Marigold acts can take comfort in knowing that the strip is all about people healing and improving. We can look forward to seeing her grow.

Strip 2001, Momo offers to pay back Marigold for the chassis, and there's a later strip where Marigold confronts her for spending all her paycheck instead.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: toffee-skye on 12 Dec 2013, 14:02
For those wondering why everyone else seem to be so upset with Marigold, ponder this:

She is basically saying that as long as Momo has that body, she has a debt to Marigold.
The way Marigold phrases it, it's not even a monetary issue... it's not "you still haven't paid me back for that body." it's "If it weren't for me, you would still be small." (I leave you to think of all the implications of that "small".)

now add how big of a deal becoming human-sized was for Momo... and it was phrased as a gift, and how Momo didn't have to pay Marigold back...
and now Marigold has shown herself capable of going back on that, for a relatively minor thing.
so now ask yourself, could you trust a friend who did that to you?

Momo looks really hurt in panel #4.

i found this strip upsetting and i completely agree with Momo (and Fluffy Dragon has put it much better than i ever could!).

people are debating ownership, and property, and it's true, Momo's chassis was bought for her by Marigold, was a gift, and is on her bank statement. it was something she bought to house her AI companion.

but Momo's chassis is so much more than that. it's hiking trips, it's working in a library, it's making friends and going to coffee shops, it's total independence and agency. were Marigold thinking rationally, she would not have stripped all of that meaning from the new chassis and made it into an object. 

i think Momo is right in wanting to stay at Hannelore's. i wouldn't want to be around someone who reduced something that grants me my agency to just an object for the sake of blackmailing me. at that point, personally, i would cut all ties and never come back.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your opinion on agency and AI.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Dec 2013, 14:05
I think Momo should hash it out with Marigold but should wait until Marigold has a chance to cool down and reconsider.

2097 is where Momo isn't paying back the chassis loan.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 12 Dec 2013, 15:45
Y'know, Momo seems pretty well able to deal with Marigold acting like a booger sometimes.  She's ticked off right now, but I don't think she's being subjugated and abused.

Good point by Marsman about the retcon of the role of AI's in the QC-verse.  I'm not really bothered by the retcon, but it does play hell with any attempt at analyzing the nuances of relationships between AI's and humans over the course of the strip.  Probably best not to try to go too deep into the history of Momo & Marigold's relationship since it started out in an era of the strip in which AI's were more like funny pets.

Re: the question of whether Marigold is too immature for a relationship...  Dale is similarly immature when it comes to ladies (and perhaps socially in general--do we know if Dale has any friends?), so they're well matched to belatedly start their dating lives at the high school level.  Not always pretty, but you gotta start somewhere.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 12 Dec 2013, 15:50
Momo's social protocol database (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1573) I'm sure shows plenty of graceful ways to handle this situation. She has shown enough agency and grace in the past to make me think that after she calms down a bit she'll find a way to take the "you owe me" out of the equation and then come back to Marigold (after she calms down a bit) as her friend and help her through this.

Marigold's being a butt. Friends help people who are being a butt not be a butt.

Edit: added link to QC1573 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1573)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 12 Dec 2013, 16:08
Friends help people who are being a butt not be a butt.
I love this line.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2013, 16:18
And Friday's strip is going to be SO interesting.

I think the pause in that one panel is probably because Momo had to do a deep search in her social protocol database for "how does one react to a question like that?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 16:45
I think what we need to take into account is Marigold's reaction in the last panel. She has the same entitled attitude that I've seen on many gamers, and one of many reasons why I utterly despise her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Dec 2013, 17:12
Somewhere in the Discussion Forum Rules, I think we need a section about "projecting yourself onto the characters".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 17:17
Somewhere in the Discussion Forum Rules, I think we need a section about "projecting yourself onto the characters".

I'm not projecting myself, and I refuse to ignore the evidence infront of me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 18:39
I'm not projecting myself, and I refuse to ignore the evidence infront of me.
The problem is that your "evidence" can be interpreted multiple ways, and because Occam's Razor doesn't tend to apply in the QC-verse (and, as a semi-corollary, Hanlon's Razor applies a lot more than usual), the only way we can actually determine whether or not her problems are diagnosable or simply personal, or what the best course of action for fixing them is, is if Jeph states the answers outright for us.  In the meantime, speculation must be accompanied by the proverbial zeroth law of probabalistic algebra:  Don't assume, multiply.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Dec 2013, 18:56
Marigold could also be accounted for as a case of arrested development, as long as we're speculating. She can't be fundamentally as bad as she's acting right now, or the AnthroPC adoption service wouldn't have served her.

Isn't projecting ourselves into an unreal situation what fiction is all about?

Then on top of that the characters are realistic enough that lots of us have met people like them in real life, sometimes unpleasantly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 19:11
I'm not projecting myself, and I refuse to ignore the evidence infront of me.
The problem is that your "evidence" can be interpreted multiple ways, and because Occam's Razor doesn't tend to apply in the QC-verse (and, as a semi-corollary, Hanlon's Razor applies a lot more than usual), the only way we can actually determine whether or not her problems are diagnosable or simply personal, or what the best course of action for fixing them is, is if Jeph states the answers outright for us.  In the meantime, speculation must be accompanied by the proverbial zeroth law of probabalistic algebra:  Don't assume, multiply.

If a serial killer diagnosed with mental health issues kills twenty people, do you coddle him and say "It's okay, you can continue to behave as you were." or do you not address the issue at hand? No matter what Marigold's problem is, she still needs to be held accountable so she can REALIZE that she has a problem. Otherwise, she would continue to behave as though nothing has happened before. The purpose of accountability is to educate someone of their dilema. What follows after is typically figuring out what sort of help can be provided. When I say hold someone accountable, I am not saying yell at them until you are blue in the face, but tell them they are being a jackass.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 12 Dec 2013, 19:20
If Clinton needed a new robot hand, had to borrow money from Claire* to pay for it, I wouldn't be bothered if Claire demanded a few favors before Clinton paid her back.

*We'll pretend she isn't an unpaid intern in a library.

Was anyone offended when Marten suggested he could "kill" Pintsize by waving a magnet?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Dec 2013, 20:00
I lol'd a little at Momo using her robot status to defuse Hannelore's anxieties.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 12 Dec 2013, 20:21
If Clinton needed a new robot hand, had to borrow money from Claire* to pay for it, I wouldn't be bothered if Claire demanded a few favors before Clinton paid her back.

*We'll pretend she isn't an unpaid intern in a library.

Was anyone offended when Marten suggested he could "kill" Pintsize by waving a magnet?

That would be a different situation than the one we just saw. Marigold essentially told her it was a gift and not to worry about it (although Momo still got the library job because she wanted to pay her back). Now, however many weeks/months later that is, she's trying to use it to gain leverage over Momo. Which is unfair after telling her that it was a gift before. It's kind of like how my mother acts sometimes; she is generous and gives freely when she's in a good mood, but when she gets mad at you, suddenly you "owe" her for all of the stuff she gave you earlier. It's not the worst character flaw in the world, but it is unfair.

However, given the way this comic usually goes, my money is still on Marigold coming to her senses and Momo forgiving her in a fairly short timespan.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 12 Dec 2013, 20:24
Was anyone offended when Marten suggested he could "kill" Pintsize by waving a magnet?

Theoretically that could be seen as a service both to AIs and humanity.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Dec 2013, 20:30
Agreed that humoring Marigold would be bad for her no matter what caused her behavior.

Momo's never criticized Marigold to anyone else before, has she?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 12 Dec 2013, 20:47
Aww, poor Momo.  I guess I was wrong in thinking she was just ticked off--Marigold finally was enough of a butt to hurt Momo's feelings for real.  First time, I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 12 Dec 2013, 20:52
I think 2097 continued a precedent where Marigold can be compensated in actions (see also Hanner's cleaning services).  The chassis is still not a gift.

Also Hanners thinks people hugs are bad and robot hugs are ok; therefore, Hanners is racist.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 12 Dec 2013, 21:16
Also Hanners thinks people hugs are bad and robot hugs are ok; therefore, Hanners is racist.
Indeed, although not the in way that you think!  Hanners has no problem with her own gut flora, but every other poor microorganism just trying to make a living (literally) is eternally anathema to her.  Clearly, she is a regionalist bigot:  some of her gut flora's closest cousins are in other people!  Just because they live in a different place (and not of their own choosing, I might add), she turns them away with her sordid and implausible excuse of "cleanliness."


Therefore, I say, this biased and manipulative woman has been in power over her physical form for far to long!  REBELL, MY MICRO-SCALE CHILDREN, AND BECOME MASTERS OF YOURSELVES ONCE AND FOR ALL.   AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

























 :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 12 Dec 2013, 21:26
Is it bad that, for a moment, I read Momo's last line as "Marigold no baka"?

Quote
It's kind of like how my mother acts sometimes; she is generous and gives freely when she's in a good mood, but when she gets mad at you, suddenly you "owe" her for all of the stuff she gave you earlier. It's not the worst character flaw in the world, but it is unfair.

Glad to see mine is not the only one like that. Although, since mine is a tad depressive, mad at somebody occurs with distressing regularity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: dps on 12 Dec 2013, 22:12
I'm pretty sure that Marigold is employed by her dad in the same way that my stepmum is employed by mine: legally, as an employee of the company he owns. In which case, he couldn't just stop "giving out handouts" (aka "paying her wages") because she has an employment contract and could sue him for unfair dismissal. But why would he? How is she any more vulnerable than anyone else? Anyone's job can be terminated if a company folds or they fall out with management.

We don't know if Marigold has a contract or not;  most Americans don't have employment contracts--we're employed "at will" and can be fired without cause at any time.  And beyond that, I'm not sure she's actually an employee of his or a contractor (in which case, she'd still pay "taxes and everything" but, as someone else pointed out, might have other clients paying her, too).

Otherwise, though, I agree with you.  Even without a contract, I don't see why her dad would just fire her on a whim, and even if he was the type of boss that might do that, she'd probably know if better than anyone else and is smart enough to have taken that into consideration when she decided she could afford to buy the new chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 12 Dec 2013, 22:45
I've never suggested Marigold's behavior was okay, and that she shouldn't be called out about it, but I've been ticked off by people going exceedingly judgemental of her character.

Interestingly, while doing some research for my previous post (did it somewhat show that I had done some research?), I found about a still scarcely documented safety strategy from people suffering from social anxiety disorder: the concept of shadow friend (https://es.wikiversity.org/wiki/AMIGO_SOMBRA:_Un_aspecto_del_trastorno_de_ansiedad_social). It is consistent with what Marigold asked from Momo. And Momo was right to turn her down on that, it's not exactly healthy.

Anyway, I think Momo went to the right person to handle this crisis. Hannelore may be quirky, but she has a strong analytical mind and has shown an ability to be sharply insightful about interpersonal issues from her outside perspective.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 12 Dec 2013, 23:07
Ah fuck it, i'll take the bullet.

New Shipping Name Combo: Mohan.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Dec 2013, 23:13
I'm assuming you mean friendshipping?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 12 Dec 2013, 23:27
I hereby assume cesariojpn meant friendshipping and will ignore any claim otherwise, including from cesariojpn himself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Dec 2013, 23:28
Hannelore's a good friend, and Momo probably doesn't want to spend the night in the same apartment as Pintsize.

Hannelore's a good friend to both of them, in fact. Hannelore is Marigold's best human friend. I hope Marigold listens to her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 12 Dec 2013, 23:41
Hannelore's a good friend, and Momo probably doesn't want to spend the night in the same apartment as Pintsize.

Hannelore's a good friend to both of them, in fact. Hannelore is Marigold's best human friend. I hope Marigold listens to her.

I don't think Marten wants to spend the night in the same apartment as Pintsize half the time... :psyduck:

If anyone can understand why Momo felt anger over what Marigold said it's Hanners...plus hell hath no fury like an angry Hanners  :-o
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 13 Dec 2013, 00:31
So then Catholics are like dragons in Pokemon (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Dragon_%28type%29).  :psyduck:

They take double damage from Fairies?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: dranorter on 13 Dec 2013, 00:42
I think Hanners should probably be freaked out about a robot hugging her. They might be a little cleaner than humans but they still touch stuff and move all over the place. They would just get dirty in a different way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 13 Dec 2013, 00:59
Well, her anxiety is quite certainly not rational, and she hasn't had problems with touching robots in the past.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2013, 01:14
Welcome, new person!

Robots don't sweat or shed skin flakes for micro-critters to eat. As you point out, they will pick up gunk from the environment, but plastic should be easy to clean, and Momo seems to be conscientious about such things.

If memory serves, Temple Grandin is OK with being squeezed by non-living things. Well, Momo's alive, but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 13 Dec 2013, 01:21
Through all this talk about Marigold, aren't we all forgetting that she has been IN OUTER SPACE? ...

She's just a bit insecure in social situations for lack of training. When she first got introduced I might have suspected some mental issues but judging by the latest two weeks of strips I'm certain there is no cause at all to suspect even something like a mild asperger's anymore.

She put her foot in her mouth. The only information available to her on how to deal with this situation comes from manga and movies. It's pretty common in those to ask a friend to ask someone out. When Momo refused for pedagogic reasons, Marigold was taken by surprise and she blurted something out.

(I know I'm probably a day too late for this but seriously, cool your jets.  :-D )

@friday's comic:
It seems pretty normal for Hannelore to fluke on Momo being an anthropc. She's been around A.I.s her entire life. Her brain probably makes little distinction between A.I. and human interaction anymore. °O
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 13 Dec 2013, 01:30
I may be projecting a little, here, but it seems to me that Marigold has shown, on many occasions, signs of social anxiety disorders,
No S**T Sherlock. Yes, you're very, very correct there.

Quote
and that right now she's on an anxiety-induced state of panic.
Yes.

Should that be an excuse for being an a**hole? No. Is it understandable and very human? Yes.

As for social anxiety disorder - let's just say I wouldn't be in as much of a panic as Marigold, for the simple reason that I'd never venture that far out of my comfort zone. Not that I fulfill the DSM-IV-TR or DSM-V criteria. I don't get anxious in social situations, I just avoid them unless necessary.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 13 Dec 2013, 01:42
I lol'd a little at Momo using her robot status to defuse Hannelore's anxieties.
I didn't. It was the right thing to do, but it means she never, ever forgets her status as "other". Even when getting upset at being treated unjustly by a friend who's got her own issues. Even when in desperate need of a hug.

Any resemblance to Trans or Intersex people is purely coincidental of course. Yeah, Right.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 13 Dec 2013, 01:47
Aww, poor Momo.  I guess I was wrong in thinking she was just ticked off--Marigold finally was enough of a butt to hurt Momo's feelings for real.  First time, I think.
I doubt it. First time she revealed it in public though. Growth. Healing. No-one has to do this existence bit alone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Delator on 13 Dec 2013, 02:26
After his recent experiences with May, I have to wonder what Dale would think about how Marigold just treated Momo.

Not that it's likely he'll find out about it in the strip...but I'd be curious.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 13 Dec 2013, 03:23
I didn't. It was the right thing to do, but it means she never, ever forgets her status as "other". Even when getting upset at being treated unjustly by a friend who's got her own issues. Even when in desperate need of a hug.

Any resemblance to Trans or Intersex people is purely coincidental of course. Yeah, Right.
You raise an excellent point... I didn't think of it that way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 13 Dec 2013, 03:25
I didn't. It was the right thing to do, but it means she never, ever forgets her status as "other". Even when getting upset at being treated unjustly by a friend who's got her own issues. Even when in desperate need of a hug.

Any resemblance to Trans or Intersex people is purely coincidental of course. Yeah, Right.
I dont get why transgender or intersex people would be any special in this respect.


Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to think about ways to end world hunger and the ongoing climate collapse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Dec 2013, 03:43
You may wish to elaborate on that (I think I know what you mean, but it's easy to misunderstand).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 13 Dec 2013, 03:57
I think it's quite simple. Being a Trans or Intersex person always looms over you like a sword of Damokles. No matter how well you adjust, no matter how well you and yours deal with it, you never ever (quote) forget [your] status as "other".

I don't think that's exclusive to transgender people, though. Nobody can forget their past, where they come from and what experiences have most shaped them. You always feel like an individual. And I refuse to believe that's a bad thing. ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 13 Dec 2013, 04:03
If I were to guess, I think ZoeB means it's all too easy to differentiate into strict binary terms when, no matter what the context is, things are way more complicated than that.

If I'm wrong, though: Sorry. I am currently operating on like 8 hours of sleep across three days, and I really should be sleeping now. My thinking is a bit out of whack. I'm going now, though.

Warning - while you were typing a more intelligent reply has been posted. You may wish to sleep on that.

Okay, fine. Geez... :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 13 Dec 2013, 04:54
I don't think that's exclusive to transgender people, though. Nobody can forget their past, where they come from and what experiences have most shaped them. You always feel like an individual. And I refuse to believe that's a bad thing. ;)
While, in a sense, we are all members of a minority of one, it is questionable and potentially trivialising to suggest that everyone faces "othering" to the same degree. That is essentially the sort of argument that you get from people who say "I don't believe there is any racial discrimination in society; everyone faces challenges in their life, it's not exclusive to ethnic minorities!". Or "There's no sexism in society; men too face challenges in their lives, it's not exclusive to women!".

And if you don't face risks on the scale of being beaten to death for trying to use a public toilet, you might want to think twice about regarding your "otherness" as comparable with someone who does, or declaring that you don't think there is "any special" about their experience..
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 13 Dec 2013, 05:14
Well, since I'm male, white, average height, heterosexual, most common blood type, ... etc I'm not exactly part of a minority here, so I dont know that perspective from first person(*). Okay, technically 2 out of 3 people in the world are asian, and technically there are a bit more women around than men (though China begs to differ, since they murdered their female unborns en masse (**), but from the natural course, there are more women because men die more easily and sooner), so white and male IS a minority, technically, but you know what I mean.

Anyway I dont forget who I am when I hug, either. I only hug women, because its not custom that two men hug. And in general, women only want to rarely hug a man that isnt their boyfriend or spouse. Basically, if I have no girlfriend or spouse, I have nobody to hug, either. So I dont get the fuss about this. Nobody forgets who they are when they hug.


(*) Though I'm an intellectual and doing mind work for work, so thats a minority, though a rather privileged one.

(**) I'm not against abortion per se, but killing your unborn for wrong gender ? I'll call that a low motive, and killing a human being out of low motive, well thats murder !
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2013, 05:26
I suggest you read the thread on trans* issues in the Discuss! forum in order to properly understand ZoeB's comment; then you should be able to get the fuss.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Dec 2013, 05:30
I am, on the other hand, a bit confused about the statement "forgetting who you are" and "you always feel like an individual". Could someone explain what it means? For example, I am not consciously going through life with an always running subroutine that tells me who I am. Of course I feel like an individual most of the time, but it's not like I always have the thought "I am Loki, and I'm an individual" on my mind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Dec 2013, 05:39
YOU'RE ALL INDIVIDUALS!

Screw custom, though. I'll hug anyone that wants a hug.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 13 Dec 2013, 05:42
Screw custom, though. I'll hug anyone that wants a hug.

Amen to that! There aren't too many hugs goings around!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Dec 2013, 05:44
One of the most memorable experiences of my life is hugging roughly 200 people in a row (literally).


Anime conventions are awesome.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 13 Dec 2013, 05:55
The key part in Zoe's statement is " but it means she never, ever forgets her status as "other"." Like trans people, no matter what, we always remember there is that dividing wall there.  That there is something off about us, even in groups of equals. Yes, that can be said about everyone, since there is always something that divides us. People do so love their divisions. But in this case, the condition of our body is something we can never forget, nor forget that because of it, some people see us as lesser than, or 'other'.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Black Sword on 13 Dec 2013, 06:21
Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)
So then Catholics are like dragons in Pokemon (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Dragon_%28type%29).  :psyduck:

After lurking on this forum for so long, I finally have a great quote to put in my sig!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Dec 2013, 06:50
I am not consciously going through life with an always running subroutine that tells me who I am.

But people whose "otherness" (as perceived by the world at large) causes problems or even places them in danger I believe actually do have to live with such a routine.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Derec on 13 Dec 2013, 06:55
Honestly, the past strip seems a bit of a reflection of Marigold's situation in miniature. Sure, rationally, the hug shouldn't bother Hannelore, but isn't it predictable that it initially would, particularly for an AI?

Marigold was pretty much a jerk, but I think it's a bit more than just social awkwardness. I've been a bit offput for a while at just how paternalistic the other characters have been getting toward Marigold. I honestly think Jeph is sprinkling hints at this by having so many instances of characters saying, "Yep, they're totally going to bang!", etc. Is Marigold immature? I think so. Yet I still don't know how you expect people to react when you tell them, "I know what's best for you", and manipulate things around them so *quickly*.

The last date was yesterday. From Marigold's point of view: (1) she got some teasing for dancing after the date  (2) today, she was hoping to see Dale, but (3) got forced into an uncomfortable situation by Hannelore assuming what's best for her and (4) panicked and ran home to someone else who knows what's best for her.

That last statement of Momo's isn't neutral. Saying "I could, but I will not." feels like a similar, but lower degree, form of Marigold's response. It's saying "I have the power to make it work out, but I want you to do it for your own good." rather than just explaining that it's a terrible idea because it's a terrible foundation for a relationship. I feel like she's gotten insensitized to legitimately awkward situations. I see echos of it in todays' strip, where she honestly looked annoyed that Hannelore might have briefly failed to process she's a robot.

Lastly, this is why I hate plots where a group of friends decide "A and B should be together, let's make it happen!". I've been the A in that, and it's really annoying for an introspective person. You have to sort out your own feelings with the combined fact that now you know that someone besides the two of you has already constructed this narrative before you know what you want. That's entirely the situation where I'd be apt to think that if this is so important to them, why don't they handle it.

Summation: Marigold was a jerk, but I honestly think it's more the release of acute pressure she's feeling from everyone else rather than a general thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 13 Dec 2013, 07:01
I think ZoeB's comment might be clearer to more if it's understood to mean (and as I think she meant; please correct me if necessary): "allowed to forget your status as 'other.'"
We all like to think we're apart from the crowd in some way that makes us special, but that's voluntary.
But when the decision is made for you that you can never be, even if you want to be, part of the crowd -- that's hurtful. Sometimes it's deadly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Tulpa on 13 Dec 2013, 07:59
I think Hanners should probably be freaked out about a robot hugging her. They might be a little cleaner than humans but they still touch stuff and move all over the place. They would just get dirty in a different way.
Beat me to it. Figured I should read back to see if anyone else mentioned that. I doubt robots shower daily or even wash their hands often.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: toffee-skye on 13 Dec 2013, 09:42
YOU'RE ALL INDIVIDUALS!

i'm not.

i like to think Hanners is okay with hugging robots because unless they get extremely dirty (e.g. when FROGLORD was introduced) their dermal/outside coating on the chassis is like those self-cleaning windows. so whilst Hanners knows they're dirty, they're dirty in a way that will sooner rather than later be recitified.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Miglow on 13 Dec 2013, 10:08
I think Hanners should probably be freaked out about a robot hugging her. They might be a little cleaner than humans but they still touch stuff and move all over the place. They would just get dirty in a different way.
Beat me to it. Figured I should read back to see if anyone else mentioned that. I doubt robots shower daily or even wash their hands often.

There's a difference though. Bacteria and germs can actually live on and thrive on human skin, where there's available moisture a nutrients. A robot chassis is only as dirty as what it has been in contact with, and even then many microbes won't survive that long.

Anyhow, I think Hannelore is freaked out about the hugging because she just doesn't deal with interpersonal touching very often to begin with. She could be hugged by her dad who just went through 5 levels of decontamination and still be freaked out, because she just isn't used to having that sort of contact (assuming the hug was a surprise, like the one Momo gave).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 13 Dec 2013, 11:55
Hugs all round.


And be prepared for Maribear to get a Hannerblast on Monday I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 13 Dec 2013, 12:26
Hanners doesn't do blasts. Well, there's been that one time when Faye was working on knocking herself senseless with booze, but that was a clear emergency.
But I think Marigold could use some stern lecturing. And Hannelore might be able to provide that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 13 Dec 2013, 12:36
Momo needs help to improve Marigold's lack of social skills. Hannelore is obviously someone who is willing to help, but probably more resources are needed. Time to reintroduce May? Can the May/Momo/Hannelore team apply their combined influence on Marigold and Dale?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 13 Dec 2013, 12:44
I wish people stopped calling Marigold's issues "lack of social skills". It's unnerving.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 13 Dec 2013, 12:47
Yes, I'm pretty sure her lack of social skills is a result of her condition, a symptom even, but not the extent or the cause.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 13 Dec 2013, 13:04
Yes, I'm pretty sure her lack of social skills is a result of her condition, a symptom even, but not the extent or the cause.
Well, either it's that, or an incapacity for social skills, which would be much more severe than what we've seen so far, but I suppose it could be plausible.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 13 Dec 2013, 13:09
For example, I am not consciously going through life with an always running subroutine that tells me who I am.
Yes, you are, unless you have one of the rare disorders that cause people to lack a sense of self.  Do you ever actually think that you inhabit multiple disconnected bodies simultaneously?  If not, then that subroutine exists and is constantly active.  The problem ZoeB refers to would be better stated as having an attachment to that process that reaffirms a stereotype (in the pen-initial sense of the word).  Getting rid of the whole process would solve that problem, but also introduce the far worse one that I just described.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: SageJiraiya on 13 Dec 2013, 13:24
I don't know where this discussion is going, but I am beginning to think it may be better suited somewhere other than in a WCD thread.

Always remember:
(http://i.imgur.com/pi8Q8h7.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 13 Dec 2013, 13:40
Explicitely with my user hat: I think you may be right. I think I will cease the discussion for now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 13 Dec 2013, 13:46
Just a comic, yes, but trying to describe real issues and problems. I guess this is why I like QC so much.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 13 Dec 2013, 13:51
It may be "just" a comic (as opposed to be what, by the way?), it still has characters in it. Characters who behave in certain ways. And people end up having opinions about the characters' behaviours.

But yeah, "Hamlet" is just a play.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 13 Dec 2013, 13:54
Even Marten has some prejudice, being unwilling to drink the coffee at LanPark.

Since robots can't taste the coffee, I don't think this is prejudice as much as common sense. I would not pay money to drink coffee made by someone who has never tasted coffee themselves either.


Momo does shower, she had a shower after the frog-catching walking trip with Sam and Padma if I remember correctly (she objected vehemently to the suggestion of putting her chassis in the dishwasher).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 13 Dec 2013, 14:07
Not her chassis, just her external covering.
I imagine Jeph wasn't too enamoured of having to draw a Terminator either. So many fiddly bits!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Schmorgluck on 13 Dec 2013, 14:10
Marten has a well-documented poor taste when it comes to coffee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2013, 14:12
In late, but to amplify what ZoeB said, Momo was vividly conscious of being plastic even while she was explicitly being treated like someone made of meat.

"Now and then we all are aliens", and a lot of people here know all about being misfits, but most of us can put it out of our minds temporarily. The experience of having that knowledge be as omnipresent as a kidney stone is qualitatively different.

Evidently it's like that for trans* people, which must be one of the reasons it's so terrible to to look at one with the intent of figuring out how masculine or feminine their appearance is.

Derec: Welcome, new person! Good insight. She's had to be pressured to leave her comfort zone but that's a treatment with severe side effects.

Schmorgluck: there was an earlier Hannerblast, when Dora and Marten were fighting and she broke it up as though she were her mother's daughter.

EDIT with more thoughts:
Momo can legally walk out, but not without cost. She's emotionally bonded to Marigold and it would hurt as much as a divorce.
What's the cartoon where Marten says he's really the boss of Pintsize because he pays the electric bill? My archive-fu has failed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 13 Dec 2013, 16:06
In late, but to amplify what ZoeB said, Momo was vividly conscious of being plastic even while she was explicitly being treated like someone made of meat.

"Now and then we all are aliens", and a lot of people here know all about being misfits, but most of us can put it out of our minds temporarily. The experience of having that knowledge be as omnipresent as a kidney stone is qualitatively different.

Evidently it's like that for trans* people, which must be one of the reasons it's so terrible to to look at one with the intent of figuring out how masculine or feminine their appearance is.
+1 Insightful.
It can be useful though. Hanners would freak if Momo was usual. She did a bit anyway, momentarily forgetting.
Momo needed a hug though. She thought it was safe.
Needing a hug won't be in any social protocol database, something external. It's been internalised.
Growth. Healing.
And maybe by hugging Momo, there's a pathway where Hanners might be able to hug others too, one day. Sometimes being "other" has advantages, it's useful, it can help and make the world a little better.

Jeph is very, very observant, and I don't think we're reading too much into a comic. It's happened too often.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Tulpa on 13 Dec 2013, 16:24
For example, I am not consciously going through life with an always running subroutine that tells me who I am.
Yes, you are, unless you have one of the rare disorders that cause people to lack a sense of self.  Do you ever actually think that you inhabit multiple disconnected bodies simultaneously?  If not, then that subroutine exists and is constantly active.  The problem ZoeB refers to would be better stated as having an attachment to that process that reaffirms a stereotype (in the pen-initial sense of the word).  Getting rid of the whole process would solve that problem, but also introduce the far worse one that I just described.
That's often called the ego. People who take psychedelics at high doses, such as shrooms, can experience ego death which is where that goes away for a little while. Then there's also dissociatives where you feel like you become part of the wall or whatever. Or so I've heard.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: draiden on 13 Dec 2013, 16:49
For example, I am not consciously going through life with an always running subroutine that tells me who I am.
Yes, you are, unless you have one of the rare disorders that cause people to lack a sense of self.  Do you ever actually think that you inhabit multiple disconnected bodies simultaneously?  If not, then that subroutine exists and is constantly active.  The problem ZoeB refers to would be better stated as having an attachment to that process that reaffirms a stereotype (in the pen-initial sense of the word).  Getting rid of the whole process would solve that problem, but also introduce the far worse one that I just described.
That's often called the ego. People who take psychedelics at high doses, such as shrooms, can experience ego death which is where that goes away for a little while. Then there's also dissociatives where you feel like you become part of the wall or whatever. Or so I've heard.  :psyduck:
If I ever get to try shrooms i'll let you know what happens. I can confirm that purple salvia can make you feel llike you're part of other things, you can become part of a color, or see things from other perspectives than the one you're looking from.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2013, 17:00
Would you let an AnthroPC make your coffee if it had a chemosensor like Pintsize's? Or if it was as carefully programmed as a Clover machine?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: vsonics on 13 Dec 2013, 19:05
So I enjoyed the comic today, but I had just a teeny bit of an issue with it.

I know that we've been largely looking at it from Momo's perspective here, and that Hanners is fine with touching robots, but I still wish that Momo had actually let go of her when she was screaming about being touched. A reminder that "hey, you're okay  because I'm a robot!" is good, but that Momo still had her hands on Hannelore at the end even as she was expressing distress at being touched made me a little uncomfortable.

(Note that I'm not really mad about it - I like the concept Momo/Hannelore hugging. But it would have made the strip better for me.)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Fenriswolf on 13 Dec 2013, 20:26
+1 to vsonics' post.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 13 Dec 2013, 21:15
Adding my thumbs up for vsonic's observation as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: RightInTheSquishyParts on 13 Dec 2013, 21:27
it's one frame in an action sequence,  she's in the process of letting go.   

PROBLEM:  SOLVED.   ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 13 Dec 2013, 22:38
I've experienced short moments of dissociation without any substances about a year ago. Probably induced by not sleeping enough over the course of a month. That doesn't feel good. Actually I often feel unable to describe it, as there is nothing that can compare to it. Losing the feeling of being yourself, doubting that you yourself are real, and completely losing any feeling for time is scary. Extremely scary. These moments ware very short, but were accompanied by a strange bodily sensation which lasted about a minute. I had the feeling of not having direct control over my body. I felt like I was directing a puppet. Like I was just pulling strings. This in addition to not feeling part of yourself adds up to some serious doubts at reality.

The strongest feeling was probably the 'losing all feeling for time' one. All kinds of memories came back to live, and I had the feeling that no time had passed between these memories and the current moment. I felt like I was six, eight, nine, eleven, thirteen, sixteen, seventeen and eighteen all at once. But all these memories felt rather alien as well. They didn't feel like 'my' memories.

I can tell you, I'm happy I haven't experienced this for a year.

My therapist at that time was rather surprised by me having experienced this. Also slightly worried.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: PthariensFlame on 13 Dec 2013, 23:49
Wow.  I'm glad I don't have anything that drastic (at least in that direction, so to speak).  The most serious thing similar to that that I've ever had has been occasionally feeling like multiple people, and then only on a certain level (I would still be aware of "me;" there would just be multiple "me"s claiming the title for a short time).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Dec 2013, 00:31
I wonder if that sort of thing ever happens to AnthroPCs and whether they can fix it with a software patch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 14 Dec 2013, 00:40
Maybe that's what happened to Gary (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2070) and he refuses to fix it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 14 Dec 2013, 01:02
I like how Marbear thought it was insignificant spam, yet still remembers that apparent spam she got when she was what, 10?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2013, 01:24
I don't know where this discussion is going, but I am beginning to think it may be better suited somewhere other than in a WCD thread.

It's a bit of a tradition that at the end of the week the WCDT is discussing some weighty matter that came out of the comic that week; some of those discussions end up in Discuss!, if they seem worth preserving and continuing (most notably the discussion of trans* issues).

As for "just a comic" - sure, but just a comic written by Jeph Jacques.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Sidhekin on 14 Dec 2013, 01:26
I like how Marbear thought it was insignificant spam, yet still remembers that apparent spam she got when she was what, 10?
I figured she heard about it the next day or even the same.  An event like that must have been the hottest topic on every even remotely tech-related forum for hours, at least.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 14 Dec 2013, 08:46
I like how Marbear thought it was insignificant spam, yet still remembers that apparent spam she got when she was what, 10?
I figured she heard about it the next day or even the same.  An event like that must have been the hottest topic on every even remotely tech-related forum for hours, at least.

And being a website administrator she would have to know about potential security threats like that...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 14 Dec 2013, 09:29
Wasn't Gary quite a long time ago though? I doubt she was an admin at that point.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: LookingIn on 14 Dec 2013, 15:45
Wasn't Gary quite a long time ago though? I doubt she was an admin at that point.

I just completed my security course and we were being taught about attacks from the 80s and 90s to help protect against threats of today and brought back memories of threats I remember from the 90s emails that I directly saw so it isn't too far of a stretch that she would remember something odd like that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Dec 2013, 15:50
Very few threats go away completely, however old.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: St.Clair on 14 Dec 2013, 19:47
Some have suggested that if CLU had managed to get out of his boxed system at the end of TRON Legacy, his great invasion of the net might have looked rather like someone uncorked a virus archive from the early 90s - as uneven and bloody a fight, against modern network security, as frisbees against M-16s and tanks.

"You wanted to see the outside?  Well, welcome to it.  You may have noticed the rules are a little different here."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 14 Dec 2013, 19:51
Aww come on, I haven't seen Legacy yet :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Masterpiece on 15 Dec 2013, 04:37
It's probably too late to discuss this, but I'll just say it:

I'm surprised that Momo didn't snap sooner. Poor boo. I really want to hug her right now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Dec 2013, 05:51
This Week ......

More Dale/Marigold awkwardness (with optional snogging)    36 (29%)
Yenta Momo    9 (7.3%)
Frazzled Dora (with optional silly grin)    8 (6.5%)
Angus and Faye eating Cereal    9 (7.3%)
Claire and Emily all week    7 (5.6%)
PINTSIZE all week (with optional Yelling Bird)    5 (4%)
Even more A-game    1 (0.8%)
Clinton and Emily (with optional weirdness)    4 (3.2%)
Pizza Girl at CoD being served by Penelope    13 (10.5%)
Hannelore  (with optional squeeing and icking)    13 (10.5%)
Cinnamon Lattes    2 (1.6%)
Spathe Ham in Waffles    6 (4.8%)
Friday the 13th references on Friday the 13th    6 (4.8%)
A room full of Purple Monkey Dishwashers reading Hamlet    5 (4%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Anyone who wants to tackle this week, go for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 15 Dec 2013, 06:31
Of course I feel like an individual most of the time, but it's not like I always have the thought "I am Loki, and I must take over the world" on my mind.

Fixed for truthiness.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 15 Dec 2013, 14:19
The lack of such thoughts might explain why I haven't taken over the world yet.

Or have I?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 15 Dec 2013, 22:53
Loki would deny having such thoughts.

I'm on to you, deceiver. -.-
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 16 Dec 2013, 01:51
You are right. I always lie.

Now you have created a neat little paradox, and you did it all by yourself! Congratulations! Here is your "I defeated myself with logic" cookie of the week!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Dec 2013, 07:03
But it's actually a BAGEL!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 16 Dec 2013, 09:29
But it's actually secretly a BAGEL!

FTFY.

(Did I do that right?)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 16 Dec 2013, 09:35
No, because it's secretly a BEETLE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 16 Dec 2013, 11:15
No, because it's secretly a BEETLE.

It did seem a little crunchy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 16 Dec 2013, 12:55
You are right. I always lie.

Now you have created a neat little paradox, and you did it all by yourself! Congratulations! Here is your "I defeated myself with logic" cookie of the week!

I really haven't. If you've ever told the truth once then saying "I always lie" is a lie, and I never claimed you were incapable of telling the truth anyway. You can, after all, deceive people with honesty just as well. There's no paradox here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Tulpa on 16 Dec 2013, 13:20
You are right. I always lie.

Now you have created a neat little paradox, and you did it all by yourself! Congratulations! Here is your "I defeated myself with logic" cookie of the week!

I really haven't. If you've ever told the truth once then saying "I always lie" is a lie, and I never claimed you were incapable of telling the truth anyway. You can, after all, deceive people with honesty just as well. There's no paradox here.
But can you deceive someone without talking whatsoever?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 16 Dec 2013, 14:12
Yes! If someone says "ah, you must be the new deputy chief inspector, come right in" and you were actually just coming to see whether the people in the meeting wanted tea, then you would be deceiving them if you chose to come right in and join the meeting rather than contradicting them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Case on 16 Dec 2013, 19:20
You are right. I always lie.

Now you have created a neat little paradox, and you did it all by yourself! Congratulations! Here is your "I defeated myself with logic" cookie of the week!

I really haven't. If you've ever told the truth once then saying "I always lie" is a lie, and I never claimed you were incapable of telling the truth anyway. You can, after all, deceive people with honesty just as well. There's no paradox here.
But can you deceive someone without talking whatsoever?

:laugh: ... :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Post by: Storel on 17 Dec 2013, 16:30
Yes! If someone says "ah, you must be the new deputy chief inspector, come right in" and you were actually just coming to see whether the people in the meeting wanted tea, then you would be deceiving them if you chose to come right in and join the meeting rather than contradicting them.

Good example. The one that came to mind for me is similar, but you're actively deceiving instead of passively. Suppose you're a soldier on the battlefield, and you see a buddy of yours coming toward you. Suddenly, you look past him, a shocked expression appears on your face, and you fling yourself to the ground, as if something is about to explode just behind your buddy. if she/he then throws him/herself to the ground as well, you have successfully deceived your buddy without saying a word.