THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Fun Stuff => CLIKC => Topic started by: pwhodges on 01 Oct 2014, 03:15

Title: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Oct 2014, 03:15
For all those wondering whether the next version of Windows will be called Windows 8.2 or Windows 9, the answer is...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 01 Oct 2014, 05:14
However, I didn't think that's how Windows versions were reported to applications, I thought they used GetVersion/GetVersionEx (or nowadays one of the new APIs, now that GetVersion has been deprecated and emulated with 8.1), which always has reported the kernel numeric version (or an emulated numeric version, but never the marketing version), rather than any API to get a textual version (or, rather, the internal code to display a textual version was either hardcoded or itself used GetVersion and a lookup table). And GetVersion was the documented way to get the version since at least Windows 3.0.

Basically, if GetVersionEx weren't deprecated, software would see PlatformID == 2 (which means NT, PlatformID == 1 means the DOS-based lineage), MajorVersion == 6, MinorVersion == 4, on whatever they had called the new version of Windows. (What it'll actually see, normally, is MinorVersion = 2, they're basically always going to report Windows 8.0 from here on out, unless a newer version is in the manifest. There's other ways they want software to detect a Windows version now.)

If they were checking for Win9x, they'd want PlatformID == 1, MajorVersion == 4.  (And, there was quite a lot of software that would have worked perfectly fine on Windows 2000 and XP, that broke because it didn't work on NT 4, and was checking PlatformID... this is a large reason why the compatibility settings existed, so you could have Windows return that it was a different version (as far back as Windows 2000) to the application.)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Oct 2014, 06:35
Some applications check the Windows version by looking at the NT version number, which is why Windows 8.1 is internally called Windows NT 6.3. Vista was 6.0, 7 was 6.1, and 8.0 was 6.2.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: LTK on 01 Oct 2014, 13:51

(See 2:20) Shock and awe! The next version of Windows will feature applications that *gasp* actually run in windows!

For real, how did they ever allow Windows 8 to take the windows out of Windows?

Anyway, if this version disappoints again there's always Windows 95 (http://windows95tips.com/) waiting for you. Watching and waiting.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 01 Oct 2014, 14:08
Yeah, surprise, surprise.  I have enough screen real-estate, that unless I'm watching a film or something, I don't want things to run full-screen.  As much as I tend to complain about Microsoft stuff, I actually think they mostly had things right with Win7.  With the Win8 beta, I actually scrubbed the VM about 20 minutes after installation, because it was just so painful to use on an actual desktop.  I'm actually glad (since I know in my life there are times where I'll have to use Windows), they decided to back-pedal, and go with an interface that is easier to navigate through keyboard and mouse.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 01 Oct 2014, 14:19
This looks promising. And, interesting that they're working more on tiled window management, although it's definitely not to the point where I'd be able to use it for all my window management. (Then again, I go to extremes of tiling, with a 2880x1800 screen. And if I replace this Mac with a Windows machine, it'll be a 3200x1800 screen, most likely...)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Oct 2014, 14:23
I hope Windows 10 is as good as my Windows 8.1, which has a start menu that works and boots to the desktop; it's hard to tell from Windows 7 and performs better.  Mind you, I did have to spend $5 to get a commercial program that makes it do this (there are free ones, but not as good) - and that was a substantial incremental cost (my home copy of Windows 8 cost me £9 through the university).

And my screen's only 2560x1600, so I'm officially jealous (it's an Apple 30" Cinema HD display).
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 01 Oct 2014, 17:25
I liked Windows 8.1 . It boots in 0.5 seconds.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 03 Oct 2014, 20:49
Rebooting is for changing hardware, or severe kernel patches.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 03 Oct 2014, 20:54
Yes, we all know you hate Windows.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 03 Oct 2014, 21:18
Like I even reboot my Windows box unless there's a major security/stability update that forces it.  One of my good friends uses Windows exclusively, and he still whinges to his wife every time he has to take one of his boxen out to blast out the dust because of "uptime".  Granted, his shit boots a lot faster than mine, but I do have to deal with the bootloader and decrypting 3 HDs, every time it happens.

Edit:  I have had similar frustrations with Apple kit, but I just don't have to deal with FruitOS these days.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 21 Jan 2015, 16:33
Upgrades to Windows 10 from 7 and 8 will be free for the first year after it's released.

http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-upgrade-free-for-owners-of-windows-7-and-81/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-upgrade-free-for-owners-of-windows-7-and-81/)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 21 Jan 2015, 16:55
Windows Holographic looks crazy.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 21 Jan 2015, 16:58
Also, interesting that the phone UI is on all devices smaller than 8".

Good thing my 7" tablet that currently runs 8.1 lies in its EDID - it claims to be 8".
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Thrillho on 22 Jan 2015, 05:45
Quote from: pwhodges on 21 Jan 2015, 16:33
Upgrades to Windows 10 from 7 and 8 will be free for the first year after it's released.

http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-upgrade-free-for-owners-of-windows-7-and-81/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-upgrade-free-for-owners-of-windows-7-and-81/)

Ooooh I like that.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 22 Jan 2015, 05:53
From what I'd read, it's actually free forever when upgrading from 8.1.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 22 Jan 2015, 06:44
They specifically said one year only, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 22 Jan 2015, 07:15
I went looking for what I'd read and I think I may have simply misread some variant of "but those who upgraded for free get to keep it forever". Oops. Well, everyone who's planning to take advantage of the upgrade will do it quickly, regardless.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: BenRG on 22 Jan 2015, 07:21
One of our laptops at work was killed by a Windows 8.1 update error reboot loop. I mean killed. The vendor looked at it and the boot files had been so totally trashed that the document files on the hard disc were inaccessible.

So, my demand for Windows 10 before I update? Updates are done in a separate memory space and the existing files not overwritten until a virtual boot is carried out to confirm that the new set-up is stable. A second-level safeguard would be to keep a mirror of the last, stable configuration and that, should Windows not boot from the new configuration, default back to that.

I'm aware that this would be hideously memory-intensive. However, given Windows 8's habit of killing hardware or scrambling its own boot files due to update and compatibility issues, it's the sort of assurance I'd need before I'd trust anything more recent than my copy of Windows 7.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 22 Jan 2015, 07:39
wow what
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 22 Jan 2015, 09:19
Quote from: BenRG on 22 Jan 2015, 07:21
A second-level safeguard would be to keep a mirror of the last, stable configuration and that, should Windows not boot from the new configuration, default back to that.

Imaging your disk beforehand is an option.  Backups are good in any case.

Quote
given Windows 8's habit of killing hardware or scrambling its own boot files due to update and compatibility issues,

Habit?  I've never seen or heard of this happening, and I'm a computer manager.  One single instance in which we know nothing of the prior state of the machine is not a "habit".  Also, I've had not a single compatibility issue going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 - much better than going between releases of Apple's OS-X!
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: BenRG on 22 Jan 2015, 09:42
Quote from: pwhodges on 22 Jan 2015, 09:19
Habit?  I've never seen or heard of this happening, and I'm a computer manager.  One single instance in which we know nothing of the prior state of the machine is not a "habit".  Also, I've had not a single compatibility issue going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 - much better than going between releases of Apple's OS-X!

I've known precisely four Windows 8 machines. The first two were killed by a recurring boot loop after a failed update. The other two are their replacements. FWIW, at least one of these cases was exacerbated by the fact that the manufacturer's BIOS did not allow for overriding Windows, booting from CD or trying various diagnostic/repair options; last time our company used them, I can tell you!

When Windows 8 first came out, there were actually reports of it deleting the drivers for some recent hardware because it couldn't recognise it. There was also the fact that the company that sold my mother her short-lived Win 8 laptop mentioned that they were being overwhelmed by requests for downgrades to Win 7 from commercial customers.

Understandably, this has made me less than keen to upgrade in future, given my W7 system is acceptably stable.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 22 Jan 2015, 10:28
Quote from: pwhodges on 22 Jan 2015, 09:19
Also, I've had not a single compatibility issue going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 - much better than going between releases of Apple's OS-X!
Apple OS updates scare me enough that I always have to make sure that my backups are up to date before even attempting it.  The only times I've used Win 8, even the public beta (upgrading from 7 in a VM), and trying to get it and Linux to play nice on a dual boot setup for a friend, and finally was forced to disable UEFI and use a pirated copy of 7 (a fact of which I informed him).
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 22 Jan 2015, 12:45
I've long given up multi-boot setups.  These days, for most purposes (that I'm interested in) virtual machines do OK.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Detachable Felix on 22 Jan 2015, 13:04
Quote from: Masterpiece on 21 Jan 2015, 16:55
Windows Holographic looks crazy.
Indeed, I really hope it doesn't turn out to be a flop. So shiny!
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 22 Jan 2015, 13:09
I hung on to my XP machine for years (Brought it in 2004) and only replaced it with my current Laptop around 2013 after it finally kicked the bucket (had most of my stuff backed up onto Flashdrives by then, but was still in process when it finally gave out.)  Truth be told, if I could have upgraded the RAM and the Harddrive, I probably would still have it.

Current Lappie runs 8.1, and I'm not in any hurry to upgrade.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 22 Jan 2015, 16:40
Quote from: pwhodges on 22 Jan 2015, 12:45
I've long given up multi-boot setups.  These days, for most purposes (that I'm interested in) virtual machines do OK.
Usually quite true.  My laptop is a bit under-powered for anything else these days, and for my friend, he insisted.  Funny thing is that about a month or two later, Pipelight started working, and since Netflix was pretty much his sole reason for using Windows, he's just using Mint.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Stoon on 22 Jan 2015, 18:11
I kept XP on my desktop until MS dropped support.  I then switched to Linux Mint. 

My new laptop came with Windows 8.1, which I came to loathe.  I made it into a dual boot with Linux Mint 17.1. 

When Windows 10 comes out with its free upgrade, I'll upgrade my laptop to Windows 10, since I figure it can't be worse than 8.1.  However, I'll still keep Mint as my day-to-day OS as a dual boot.

I love Linux Mint.  It just works.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: celticgeek on 22 Jan 2015, 18:15
Quote from: Stoon on 22 Jan 2015, 18:11
I love Linux Mint.  It just works.

Yes.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: SubaruStephen on 24 Jan 2015, 16:26
Quote from: LTK on 01 Oct 2014, 13:51

(See 2:20) Shock and awe! The next version of Windows will feature applications that *gasp* actually run in windows!

For real, how did they ever allow Windows 8 to take the windows out of Windows?.

So they're putting back the things that made Windows.... What's the word?

Usable! That's it, "Usable".

Whoever decided to remove the traditional Start menu in 8 had better be collecting unemployment. Windows 8 might be good on a tablet, but when its on a PC (with a mouse) it becomes completely unusable to someone who is used to the classic Windows style/layout (like me, and the older members of my family).

It takes me 5 minutes to find a progr....app on the computers at work (fortunately, we usually only use two, so they stay open all day).
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: downtowneddie on 14 Feb 2015, 10:43
I have a Dell Latitude XT2 (http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-xt2/pd), which is one of the first generations of Tablet PCs, way ahead of its time. (Essentially, it's what the PC manufacturers are making again these days.) It's my Windows 10 testing machine and, despite having a Core 2 Duo mobile processor and only 3 GB of RAM, the thing runs the Windows 10 technical preview exceptionally well. Anyway, I quite like it and I look forward to it becoming a more mature OS in the coming months.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Sorflakne on 30 Mar 2015, 10:24
I installed StartIsBack within minutes of turning on my current laptop with Windows 8 for the first time and disabled corners and the windows button on the keyboard and set the machine to boot straight to desktop.  Never having to deal with the Metro screen is nice.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 30 Mar 2015, 16:20
Except for start is back, I am hoping that you did all these options in the OS settings, as they're readily available.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Thrillho on 31 Mar 2015, 01:30
Masterpiece I know you're a Windows defender to a die-hard degree, but you are aware that most people's criticisms aren't that those functions aren't available but that they aren't the default, right? Most people can barely use a computer - even people who use computers all the time.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: osaka on 31 Mar 2015, 01:48
What Gareth said, basically. The biggest problem with Win8 is that its default interface works everywhere BUT a computer (Metro is the interface for X360 and X1, which work pretty nice because the standard input is a gamepad, and I've seen it put to decent use on touchscreens). And 90% of windows users don't even know what the control panel is.

In other news, I can't help but remember one thing that some dude on twitter said about Win10: "Package manager, virtual desktops, code liberation for .NET... Windows10 is shaping up to be a decent Linux after all"
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 31 Mar 2015, 03:16
So to make Windows 8 behave like Windows 7 takes the installation of a single program.  In return you are using the current version with the advantages of improved kernel performance and other changes. 

Now, given that, the difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8 is in practice less than the difference between different Linux distributions...  and Linuxes vary more under the skin than Windows versions as well (systemd/init; httpd/apache; ipchains/iptables/firewalld - just differences I've been dealing with this week already)... 

The argument for Linux sure isn't for those who don't know what the Windows Control Panel is!  Start8 or StartIsBack will do them fine.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 31 Mar 2015, 05:55
Gareth, I agree! I just don't trust programs that fuss with system settings if you can do it on your own. And I was offering help.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 31 Mar 2015, 05:55
Going to offer, I mean.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Stoon on 31 Mar 2015, 09:24
I gave up on Windows 8.1.  I couldn't get it to look or behave how I like no matter how I tweaked the settings.

With Linux Mint, it took me only a few minutes, the very first time I installed it.  And that's me being a neophyte knowing nothing about Linux.  And Linux Mint just gets better every update.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 31 Mar 2015, 10:56
Well, to be fair, Microsoft isn't alone in interface clusterfucks.  I certainly found Win8 unusable (couldn't even find the control panel for 10 minutes).  But I felt the same way about Unity and Gnome3 over in OSS land.  Too drastic a change in user experience, and at the very least, they'll complain and find work-arounds, if not desert you entirely.  MS found this out with Win8 and trying to unify the experience across portable devices and desktops/laptops. 

I think that the longer one sticks with a certain way of doing things, the more frustrating that moving to a new interface is.  And like it or not, most people who use computers have at least a passing familiarity with Windows, through work, education, or whatever.  I have seen people have difficulty going from Windows to Apple than the other way around.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: jwhouk on 31 Mar 2015, 15:50
The Mac OS is nothing like it was two or three OS's ago. And the very fact that I can no longer access about half the stuff I had on my LC or Performa is pretty much an indictment that Apple is in the same boat as Microsoft.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 31 Mar 2015, 16:18
I only really used OS X from beta to 10.6, and it seems as though for the most part, the big interface changes were introduced a bit more slowly.  I think I've used 10.8 twice, and at least from the GUI, pretty much everything was familiar enough to work it out a lot more easily than the Win7 and prior to Win8 change, or Apple's own switch from Mac OS classic to OS X.   Win 10 seems like it's going to fix the major UI problems without a complete rollback, which I think is a good thing, since my laptop is getting long in the tooth, and I can't afford to replace it with a Mac, so I'll be working with Win10/Linux.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Apr 2015, 07:28
Windows is now old-hat.  MS-DOS Mobile (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irJQDGw8Ptk) is where it's at!

Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Apr 2015, 07:31
I know it's just an April Fools joke, but I actually want to try that.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 01 Apr 2015, 08:39
It's an actual app for Windows Phone:

(http://i.imgur.com/vxQXDKp.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/BfK85HC.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/1T6JqpK.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/7c44ke2.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/qxO4l5K.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/mchaTnP.png)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Apr 2015, 08:54
Oh. Is it available for a real phone OS?  :-P
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 01 Apr 2015, 09:00
and I'm off
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 29 Apr 2015, 12:00
Holy shit @ what's coming out of Build.

I think this is my favorite part (although it doesn't look like the full Win32 desktop): http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/29/8513519/microsoft-windows-10-continuum-for-phones

Continuum for phones is basically what I've wanted for the past few years in an OS UI - one platform with apps that automatically adapt between phone and desktop UIs.

And, then, there's the whole, Visual Studio importing Xcode for iOS projects to recompile for Windows Universal apps, an Android runtime in Windows, and Visual Studio supporting building for iOS, Android, and Windows. Combine that with what we already knew about Universal apps running inside of the desktop, so now there's serious incentives to write once, and target iOS, Android, and all Windows devices with one app, and it looks like Microsoft has a seriously coherent vision, and I like where this is going.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 29 Apr 2015, 17:55
It's a crazy build. I love it so much.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 05 Jun 2015, 17:02
So, got the Icon on my Task Bar to reserve my free copy of the Windows 10 Upgate

I decided to take a punt and reserved it.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Neko_Ali on 05 Jun 2015, 17:12
I'm going to try it on my netbook first. I need to see if it wrecks anything before I go updating my desktop. I kinda need it for work and all....
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 30 Jul 2015, 02:19
So now it's here; I did my first upgrade to Windows 10 last night.  Nothing much to say yet, as I haven't done anything with it - but it worked.

However, a colleague had a bit of trouble.  This was, of course, reported meticulously by the Windows 10 installer with two successive messages:

(http://users.ox.ac.uk/~stat0142/upgrade-0-of-1.JPG)

(http://users.ox.ac.uk/~stat0142/upgrade-1-of-1.JPG)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 30 Jul 2015, 03:28
Just spent the last hour and a half downloading and installing it. Minor issue towards the end, but a quick Reboot sorted that.  No issues so far.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 30 Jul 2015, 03:57
Oh, the update from Windows 7. Scary.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: de_la_Nae on 30 Jul 2015, 04:03
Putting it off for a few days.

For my side job, I've been doing a lot of audio transcription from Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference.

I feel I now know a whole lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Well, signifying a little maybe.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 30 Jul 2015, 05:38
Eh, I'm sticking with Windows 7, at least until the beta test is done.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Neko_Ali on 30 Jul 2015, 06:00
I'm waiting to see if anyone reports problems with the new OS and for the first round of patches to come out. I may break out my notebook to upgrade and play around with it, but seeing as how I use this computer for work, and I can't work without it, I can't risk something bad happening because I upgraded.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: jwhouk on 02 Aug 2015, 12:44
I am living in the future.

WindowsX is now on both "active" computers in my house.

(Heh, I wonder if I could try it on that other laptop...)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 02 Aug 2015, 14:06
I have 3 laptops running Win7Pro, the home tower PC running Win7HomePremium, and a missing laptop running Win8.

and I've been hunting the damn laptop, so I can upgrade it to WinX.

Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 02 Aug 2015, 15:49
Finally got my tablet onto it.

It's nice, it's even faster than Win8 on this (very constrained) hardware.

Modern UI applications (aka Metro applications) are rendered a bit smaller, presumably to work around the fact that Windows 10 runs on 600 px tall screens, versus the 768 px minimum of Win8 (there were 1024x600 Win8 devices, but they used display driver trickery to emulate a higher density). They also aren't getting out of the way of the on-screen keyboard properly, annoyingly. Win32 apps don't get out of the way of the on-screen keyboard at all. Universal apps, however, behave properly.

Otherwise, it's really nice, and Win32 applications playing nicely in the (easy to run applications side-by-side) Tablet Mode (other than the aforementioned keyboard issue) makes a world of difference - in fact, I'll be running Tablet Mode all the time on this machine, even when I use a bluetooth keyboard+TrackPoint with it (which is most of the time).

Oh, and my annoyance about the keyboard not having PgUp and PgDn is still intact. :(
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hazlett on 02 Aug 2015, 20:12
All windows versions have new features and I think all we need is get use to it.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 02 Aug 2015, 20:19
Few minor issues, but that may have been me setting a few things up, but so far I have had no real issues with it.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: BenRG on 03 Aug 2015, 01:21
I've already decided to wait a few months so that the first tranche of major stability and bug-fix updates is past.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Eternal_Newbie on 03 Aug 2015, 08:53
Quote from: BenRG on 03 Aug 2015, 01:21
I've already decided to wait a few months so that the first tranche of major stability and bug-fix updates is past.

Yeah me too, I tried to create an ISO and a bootable USB stick with the Media creator, but it just gave me that incredibly informative "Something Happened" error.  If they cant do something as basic as ensuring their installer and media creator work properly on international versions of Windows, I don't have much hope for Windows 10.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: jwhouk on 03 Aug 2015, 18:22
My nightmare was over an older update of Windows 7. KB3022345 caused a corruption of two .json files that couldn't be fixed in the system file checker - which resulted in the "blinking desktop" that nearly caused me to lose all my hair this weekend.  :psyduck:

Fortunately, I got the files fixed, deleted the updates that caused the problem, backed up my old Win7 environment as a "clone" onto my external HD, and dove head-first into the Win10 upgrade experience.

I think I let out a yell of joy loud enough to be heard in Redmond when my desktop showed up. :)

Lot of little annoyances and naggings - but most of them are because I'm still so old skool: I've gotten used to keyboard shortcuts, so imagine my surprise that ALT+F+N+F no longer created a new folder, but CTRL+SHIFT+N did.

I'm also not really liking the white toolbar/address bars in Win10, but I'm figuring some enterprising person is going to figure out how to alter those pretty soon.

Basically, just finding where things are, playing a bit with the Start bar, getting myself comfy with the new interface. Nothing completely new, of course; I've gone through so many OS'es in my life, I think even Mr. Hodges would be impressed.

...well, maybe. ;)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 04 Aug 2015, 03:23
Regarding Edge, the forums are somewhat broken. Posting results in 500 errors and the formatting buttons in reply view have no effect.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 04 Aug 2015, 03:28
(http://i.imgur.com/ATaVNTy.png)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Aug 2015, 03:31
Yeah, but that's not Windows - that's a problem between the source QC server and the CloudFlare distributed web cache.  It's become a (somewhat minor, but still irritating) problem since the forum went https (and there are other symptoms which I can see as an admin), but I haven't found a way yet to identify any area which could be addressed to fix it.  It is frequently in my mind, though.

However, if Edge is showing a distinct increase in these errors, then this could be a valuable diagnostic hint (I have an idea that timing in TCP handshakes is part of it) - I will certainly try it for myself and follow it up.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 04 Aug 2015, 03:37
It has increased the occurrence somewhat. Posting the above screenshot threw no error for example. But the problem with the formatting buttons is brand new.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Aug 2015, 04:02
OK - thanks for the report.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Aug 2015, 05:42
I haven't seen any 500 errors recently myself, on any browser. Generally I'm using Firefox on OS X on a 30/5 connection at home, Chrome on Android on LTE when mobile, and when I'm at work, I use my tablet on a 1.5/768k connection, formerly with Modern IE11 on Win8.1 Update, now Edge on Win10.

I can confirm that the formatting buttons and smilies don't work on Edge, though.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Aug 2015, 06:14
Ah, so that's a real code incompatibility that I could look into.  I can't try until this evening, as I don't have a Windows 10/Edge available at work yet (VM here I come?  Actually, we don't have our university enterprise version yet, so I don't have a spare code to install with).  I can check with the SMF forums, as presumably this is not unique to us.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 04 Aug 2015, 13:07
Feel like your bandwidth is down after the Windows 10 upgrade? That's because your operating system is torrenting updates with other users to "help people get windows with unreliable internet connections". The unexpected downside of this is that my bandwidth TANKED.

Do this immediately if the same happened to you:

Sadly, Windows 10 Is Stealing Your Bandwidth 'By Default' — Disable It Immediately (http://thehackernews.com/2015/08/windows-10-update.html)

It worked wonders for me.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: LTK on 04 Aug 2015, 13:36
Fuckssake, not a day goes by without another feature of Windows 10 popping up that needs to be disabled.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 04 Aug 2015, 16:03
Thanks for that Masterpiece, just did that.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Aug 2015, 16:21
Thanks for the reminder about that one. The connection I'm most worried about that, I set to Metered anyway, but I changed the setting to make sure it didn't affect things.

I also didn't shut the feature all the way off, just set it to stay on the same LAN.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: 94ssd on 04 Aug 2015, 17:27
I've decided to take the plunge. What I heard from friends was to take the update if you have 8 but not to if you have 7. So I'm trying it. In the absolute worse case scenario, I'm walking distance away from the campus library now
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Aug 2015, 17:53
I'm working on taking the plunge on my Mac. This basically consists of upgrading the Boot Camp partition to 10 to get the license, then blowing everything away, maybe installing a minimal OS X that I can boot into when it wants a firmware update, then installing Windows 10 for real.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 04 Aug 2015, 18:10
Update on the update torrenting: my bandwidth is still shit. Will update soon.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: 94ssd on 04 Aug 2015, 18:25
Relatively painless, I am noticing the bandwith issue somewhat even after changing that setting. So far the only other issue is that I can't seem to change my lock screen picture.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Aug 2015, 18:42
Update on ditching OS X for Win10: Something Happened, installed from USB, Something stopped Happening, Win10 installed painlessly, now installing OS X to an SD card so I can purge it from this machine, and just boot into that SD card when firmware updates are released.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: 94ssd on 04 Aug 2015, 19:02
Having Cortana is nice, although I imagine its more useful on Windows Phone. Google Now on my phone has very little functionality in comparison to actual 'personal assistants' like Siri or Cortana.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 04 Aug 2015, 19:47
Cortana always berates me for being late.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Aug 2015, 06:14
OK, I confirm that I can see the problem with formatting buttons and smileys, but the answer has not yet jumped out at me.  I have also found a report of this on the forums of the SMF forum software, but no diagnosis has been proposed there yet.

This is a general SMF issue, and I have confirmed that it is the same in another forum of which I am admin.

I've tried all the developer flags, starting with those relating to Javascript, but to no effect.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Aug 2015, 16:58
For the record, I get those 500 errors using IE at work constantly but never at home on Chrome. Work's internet is so fucking spotty I assumed it was their problem and never mentioned it.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 08 Aug 2015, 20:00
I pity people still using Ayeeeeeee
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 09 Aug 2015, 15:19
we are ONE.

we are BORG.

you will be assimilated.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Thrillho on 10 Aug 2015, 02:43
Quote from: Kugai on 08 Aug 2015, 20:00
I pity people still using Ayeeeeeee

I have no choice, because I'm at work  :psyduck:
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Aug 2015, 06:25
Quote from: Kugai on 08 Aug 2015, 20:00
I pity people still using Ayeeeeeee

I'm on the Edge.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 10 Aug 2015, 15:53
(http://orig04.deviantart.net/b5ee/f/2012/329/8/f/wwe_champion_edge_by_windows8osx-d5m58x6.jpg)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 10 Aug 2015, 18:44
   ?
?WTF?
   ?
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Thrillho on 11 Aug 2015, 00:51
Kugai, that may be my favourite post in forum history.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 12 Aug 2015, 15:48
*Bows Courtly Style*
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: LTK on 21 Aug 2015, 17:22
You know, most of the news coming out on Windows 10, the privacy issues, the forced updates, using your bandwidth, removing old features, it's all irksome but somewhat justifiable, from Microsoft's perspective. But why in the nine hells would they keep the content of Windows patches a secret (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/microsoft-has-no-plans-to-tell-us-whats-in-windows-patches/)?
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 21 Aug 2015, 22:25
Almost wants to make you switch to Mac
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 22 Aug 2015, 01:14
Yeah, at this point, if my next computer isn't running Linux, it'll be a hackintosh.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 23 Aug 2015, 02:44
Quote from: Kugai on 21 Aug 2015, 22:25
Almost wants to make you switch to Mac

Have you ever tried getting information out of Apple?  Apple refuse to tell corporate clients (like the university I work for) what their policy is on support of version of their OS prior to the current one - possibly because they don't actually have one, but certainly for plausible deniability in case of issues.  They also consistently refuse to acknowledge well-known issues until they have a solution, however long that takes (and sometimes not even then).

And yes, to declare my bias, I support both PCs and Macs, and run both at home.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 23 Aug 2015, 06:11
They don't have one.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/backporting-fix-for-rootpipe-privilege-issue-too-much-for-apple/
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 31 Aug 2015, 18:02
fuck it.

bricked my newest laptop with WinX.

I need a beer.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hazlett on 31 Aug 2015, 23:00
Did you upgrade to windows10
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Sep 2015, 08:24
Something that might be of interest to people who are sticking with Windows 7 or 8: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/microsoft_backports_data_slurp_to_windows_78_via_patches/

(If you've installed Windows 10, you already have this installed...)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 07 Oct 2015, 06:22
Microsoft unveils Lumia 950 (http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mobile/phone/lumia950/), 950 XL (http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mobile/phone/lumia950-xl/), 550 (http://www.microsoft.com/en/mobile/phone/lumia550/), Band 2 (http://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-band/), Surface Pro 4 (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-pro-4), and Surface Book (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-book).
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 07 Oct 2015, 12:23
The Surface book looks fucken sick.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: hedgie on 09 Oct 2015, 01:32
Fine.  I'll admit it.  That *does* look like some pretty nice kit.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Oct 2015, 05:43
For $1500, I definitely would expect it to be nice.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 13 Mar 2016, 18:19
Microsoft keeps getting slimier and slimier about getting people to switch to Windows 10...

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3042155/microsoft-windows/windows-patch-kb-3139929-when-a-security-update-is-not-a-security-update.html

If it weren't for things like this, I might have switched (when I had a spare long weekend to fuck around with all the crap that inevitably goes wrong when upgrading an operating system), but if Microsoft is going to insert things like this into security patches, forget about it.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: ankhtahr on 30 Mar 2016, 12:03
So apparently Microsoft (after becoming part of OpenSSH) decided that the easiest way to use SSH on Windows would be implementing an interlayer which redirects syscalls (basically reverse Wine) and porting most of the Ubuntu userspace. Which allows you to run (almost) any Linux binary on Windows. It gives you a working bash. It gives you apt-get. On Windows.

Holy hell.

Most news outlets currently only focus on bash, but this means so much more.

http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html (http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 31 Mar 2016, 01:57
Quote from: cesium133 on 13 Mar 2016, 18:19
Microsoft keeps getting slimier and slimier about getting people to switch to Windows 10...

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3042155/microsoft-windows/windows-patch-kb-3139929-when-a-security-update-is-not-a-security-update.html

I'm amused that after telling us how bad this behaviour is, that blog then asks readers for an example because the author hasn't been able to trigger it.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: SubaruStephen on 31 Mar 2016, 22:30
My old PC is still running Vista. How long do you think it'll be before MS forces my computer to upgrade to Windows X?

Because I'm fairly certain that the hardware won't handle it and I'll have to buy a new PC.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Tova on 31 Mar 2016, 23:59
I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that Windows 10 is more likely to run well on old hardware than Vista, not less.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Apr 2016, 01:00
MS won't force an upgrade to Vista any more than they did to XP; they just might try to sell you an upgrade, I suppose.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: BenRG on 01 Apr 2016, 02:05
As far as I can tell, MS isn't so clumsy as to actually force an unwilling customer to update to Win10. That would be just stupid and probably a suicidal move for the company. No, they're more subtle than that. They have 'update now' windows appear where the only two options that appear are 'Update Now' or 'Download Now and Update Later'. You can cancel the update by just closing the windows using the Red-X button in the top right corner but most end users don't have that level of familiarity with the Windows UI. This leads your average end user to think that Microsoft is giving them no choice but to upgrade, hence the grumbles.

There is also the indirect coercion that I'm experiencing to upgrade from Office 2010 to Office 360. Microsoft cleverly implemented an on-line help database with Windows 2007. Help articles were no longer on your HDD but on MS's servers and accessed via the Internet. Then, a few weeks ago, all the help files for all versions except Office 360 were relocated and replaced by a redirect to an advert page for Office 360. This means that, if you have any version of MS Office after 2007, you no longer have detailed help files available without a long, exhausting and far from success-guaranteed search through the Internet via Google or some other search engine. The articles still exist but are in MS's archives as well as a few lesser-known mirror sites.

Microsoft didn't become virtually a monopoly through clumsy bully-boy tactics (at least not with end users; integrators and resellers are another matter entirely). They instead cynically exploit the average person's lack of technical literacy, confusion and fear instead. In some ways, that's worse.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 01 Apr 2016, 08:17
Actually, for a few days, they were automatically upgrading machines to Windows 10, and then downgrading back if you declined the EULA.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Kugai on 01 Apr 2016, 12:26
I'm pretty happy with 10 on my Laptop here.  Haven't had any issues with it myself and it seems to work OK.

As for Orifice, I get those 'Try Office 360' messages occasionally, but for me I prefer to sitck with Open Office.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Tova on 03 Apr 2016, 01:10
My Mum is not the most computer-literate person out there, but last time I was over, she told me that she was about to shut down her laptop to take it somewhere and discovered Windows 10 was in the middle of installing. I've no idea whether it installed without her consent or whether she accepted a Windows 10 upgrade unwittingly.

So maybe not force, but they are pushing it pretty hard.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 03 Apr 2016, 21:34
they're pushing it harder than a coke dealer on a slow day.

AND they're using 'security' patches to further the WinX blasphemy.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Sorflakne on 05 May 2016, 11:01
Quote
No, they're more subtle than that. They have 'update now' windows appear where the only two options that appear are 'Update Now' or 'Download Now and Update Later'. You can cancel the update by just closing the windows using the Red-X button in the top right corner but most end users don't have that level of familiarity with the Windows UI. This leads your average end user to think that Microsoft is giving them no choice but to upgrade, hence the grumbles.
I'm getting this popup almost daily now.  I'll probably go ahead and do the update at the end of May, I just don't want to have to migrate all my files over to one of my external drives.  Yes, I know the update isn't supposed to mess with your files and whatnot, but it's best to not trust stuff like that when changing your OS.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 07 May 2016, 20:22
I recently installed and HIGHLY RECOMMEND this app:

GWX Control Panel

takes care of the G-D windows popups.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: cesium133 on 07 May 2016, 20:26
Microsoft says they're going to stop in July. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/06/windows_10_update/) We'll see...
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Grognard on 07 May 2016, 20:37
let's hold our breath and lemme sell you a bridge I have in Brooklyn.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: LTK on 08 May 2016, 03:14
Ya know, they do want to start making money off Win10 at some point...
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Storel on 26 Jun 2016, 23:44
Okay, I have a Win8 laptop, and when I first got it I downloaded a shareware program called Classic Shell from IvoSoft to make it usable (i.e., give it a proper Start menu). I've heard that Win10 restores the Start menu, so before I upgrade to Win10, would you recommend that I uninstall Classic Shell? I'm concerned that it might interfere with Win10 otherwise.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: pwhodges on 27 Jun 2016, 01:02
Certainly with other start menu replacements (Start*, for instance) it is cleaner to uninstall before the upgrade.  You may wish to install a Win10 equivalent, though, because the new start menu may still not be to your taste (it isn't to mine).
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Storel on 15 Jul 2016, 15:34
Quote from: pwhodges on 27 Jun 2016, 01:02
Certainly with other start menu replacements (Start*, for instance) it is cleaner to uninstall before the upgrade.  You may wish to install a Win10 equivalent, though, because the new start menu may still not be to your taste (it isn't to mine).

Sorry for the belated reply; I rarely venture out of Comic Discussion, so I kept forgetting to check here for replies.

That's what I figured, thanks! I'll see what the new Start menu looks like before I decide to replace it. They've made substantial changes to it in the past that I've learned to live with; my main problem with Win8 was that it doesn't even HAVE  a Start menu!
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: doombilly on 03 Aug 2016, 13:16
Don't worry, with Windows10 your start menu will just stop working and you'll have to go through several fixes to get it back. Then it'll happen again.  :roll:
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Storel on 28 Sep 2016, 21:30
Okay, I use headphones plugged into the jack on my laptop a lot of the time, so the sound from my computer doesn't bother my wife in the next room. My biggest annoyance with Windows 10 so far is that every time I accidentally or intentionally unplug or plug in the headphones (and they get accidentally unplugged a lot, with four cats around). it pops a message saying

Quote
Information
You just unplugged a device from the audio jack.
Realtek HD Audio Manager

or

Quote
Information
You just plugged a device into the audio jack.
Realtek HD Audio Manager

How can I turn this off?? It never used to notify me either way before I "upgraded" to Win10, and I liked it that way! The one when I plug it back in is especially annoying. I know I just plugged something in, it can't happen by accident!!

Win10 doesn't seem to have the Control Panel any more, but it does have something called Settings. I can't find anything in Settings that has anything to do with audio, though, and I can't find anything about the Realtek HD Audio Manager in any menu on the system. Anyone know how to kill this stupid notice?

Edit: Okay, I just discovered that you can bring up a lot of stuff related to the audio system if you right-click on the little speaker icon in the system tray -- the one that just lets you change the volume setting if you left-click it. Still can't find anything to disable those stupid notices, though.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 28 Sep 2016, 21:52
So is there another speaker icon in the notification area? Maybe a red one, or a diagonal gray one? This is what it looks like on my machine:

(https://bhtooefr.org/images/realtekaudio.png)

One problem is that this is so vendor-specific, so it may be called the Realtek HD Audio Manager, or it may be called something else entirely (Dell Audio on Dells, for instance).

You're looking for an audio manager that isn't the Windows one, and that has an option called "Display icon in notification area".

On my system, here's the option you're after:

(https://bhtooefr.org/images/realtekaudio2.png)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Storel on 28 Sep 2016, 23:01
Bingo! My icon looked the same as yours, but it comes up as "Dell Audio" and the settings window looks completely different. But it did have an option called "Display icon in notification area", and turning it off did kill the stupid notices! Yes, thank you!! If you're ever in San Francisco, let me know and I'll buy you a drink, or a coffee, or something like that.

Edit: However, it also stops showing that particular speaker icon in the systray (which is what I would expect that option to do, not turn off plugged/unplugged notices), so if I ever want to fiddle with any of the other options, I can't now.  :-P
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 28 Sep 2016, 23:12
So, funny thing, the Control Panel still exists in Windows 10, but it's somewhat hidden. Just search for Control Panel, you'll find it. (I think if you search for Dell Audio, you'll find the control panel in question directly, too. I'd verify, but I don't have a modern Dell here, and I'm not at work (and I work for Dell, and run Windows 10 on my primary work machine, so you'd think I'd know this off the top of my head), so...)
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Storel on 28 Sep 2016, 23:17
Hah! Thanks again. That's two drinks I owe you now. One more hot tip and I'll have to buy you lunch. 8-)

Edit: And yes, searching for Dell Audio works too.

Edit 2: Ooh, ooh, after searching for Control Panel, if you right-click on what it brings up instead of double-clicking it, you can use the "Pin to Start" option! Now I don't have to search for it ever again! Hahaha! The world is mine, now! :evil:
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 20 Oct 2016, 05:43
Reg the Control Panel, you can also find it if you right click on the Windows Button.

And the message you're seeing is just a notification your audio drivers are giving you, it's not default Windows behavior.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 20 Oct 2016, 05:44
...and that was twenty days ago. too late I presume.
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Storel on 31 Oct 2016, 02:23
Quote from: Masterpiece on 20 Oct 2016, 05:43
Reg the Control Panel, you can also find it if you right click on the Windows Button.

Ooh, nice! Thank you. 8-)

Quote from: Masterpiece on 20 Oct 2016, 05:43
And the message you're seeing is just a notification your audio drivers are giving you, it's not default Windows behavior.

Since it didn't start happening until I upgraded to Win10 -- and I hadn't made any changes to my audio drivers -- I had no way to know that until bhtooefr told me how to fix it. I don't know if the Win10 upgrade somehow updated my audio drivers, or if it simply reset a setting that had always defaulted to the opposite setting, but either way it certainly seems to be Win10's fault.

Quote from: Masterpiece on 20 Oct 2016, 05:44
...and that was twenty days ago. too late I presume.

Plus it had already been covered by bhtooefr, but thanks for responding!
Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: Masterpiece on 31 Oct 2016, 02:40
cheers

This post was sent from inside my phone!

Title: Re: The future of MS Windows
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 May 2017, 19:31
So, Microsoft's attempt to compete against Chromebooks in schools boils down to an edition of Windows that only allows Store applications to run, Windows 10 S (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-s).

There's talk of improved battery life with 10 S (due to the only running apps being ones that are aggressively killed/paused like in a modern mobile OS), faster logon (important for school computer cart usage), and improved security.

However, it was launched alongside the Surface Laptop (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/featured-devices/surface-laptop), which is an... odd... decision. I feel like university students (the claimed intended market of the Surface Laptop) would really benefit far more from 10 Home or 10 Pro (although until the end of this year, there's a free upgrade to 10 Pro for Surface Laptop buyers), and 10 S is a SKU that really only makes sense for K-12 education. It almost feels like this is a device made specifically for dogfooding (much like the Chromebook Pixel), and if they sell some units, hey, that helps pay for it...