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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: GarandMarine on 04 Oct 2014, 22:04

Title: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 04 Oct 2014, 22:04
And now the thrilling conclusion!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: davedig on 04 Oct 2014, 23:20
Sure about that?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 04 Oct 2014, 23:52
What will Claire's mother think of Veronica?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 04 Oct 2014, 23:58
Okay, as it's more relevant to this thread, I've carried this reply over from last week's thread:

I wanna see Clairemom and Veronica as the mothers-in-law. :-D

Not so much the mothers-in-law but  the two co-conspirators, meeting in secret (as if meeting at CoD with Dora, Tai and Penny offering endless 'voice of experience' suggestions classifies as a 'secret') to plot hooking the two up. It would be funny but I genuinely get the impression that's the sort of woman Mrs A is. Veronica is a real child of the liberation-70s and I doubt she'd be interested in mapping out Marten's life for him. However, if she's happy in a relationship with Jim, she might decide she wants Marten to be happy too.

SAM: "So... then Miss Claire would be my sorta-sister-in-law?"

VV: "Step-sister-in-law, assuming that I marry your dad, yes."

SAM: "Cool! She'd be able to help me with my literature homework! I'm in!"

Regarding how Mrs A will view Veronica? Well, she can't be that conservative, given Claire's situation. However, she does strike me as a very middle-of-the-road home-maker type. However, from what Veronica said to Marten about wanting to settle down, she might represent what she wants to be. There may be a running joke about Mrs A calling Veronica "my young apprentice" and the two bursting into giggles, leading Marten and Claire to the horrible realisation that they're both the children of sci-fi nerds.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 05 Oct 2014, 01:02
I hope that we get to see more of Claire and Marten next week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 05 Oct 2014, 03:57
We still have the Dora-Sven fallout waiting to happen as well as the Angus interview situation.  Will the arcs merge? 

I'm looking forward to Marten developing his new assertiveness. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 05 Oct 2014, 06:24
We still have the Dora-Sven fallout waiting to happen as well as the Angus interview situation.  Will the arcs merge

It's possible; at the very least, I think that, as a result of the Angus situation, we may see the Marten-Faye axis change; either Faye will move in with Angus or Marten will be temporarily focussed on supporting Faye through a break-up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 05 Oct 2014, 07:12
I can see claire and Faye arguing in the near future. If Fay and Angus break up, Marten and Claire get together, I imagine Claire will be floating on clouds while Faye would probably feel horrific.

"Just because you are sad doesn't mean I can't be happy!" is an argument I've had and could see happen here. And then poor marten would be stuck in the middle
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Oct 2014, 07:16
I could also see Faye wanting Marten's shoulder to cry on (and most of his time), and Claire being all 'back the hell off my man, you had your shot.'

With, of course, Marten stuck in the middle.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 05 Oct 2014, 07:24
Regarding how Mrs A will view Veronica? Well, she can't be that conservative, given Claire's situation.

Claire is who she is. Veronica has chosen to make a living from porn. Those two things are not remotely the same. I expect that Mrs. Augustus would have no problems with Henry being gay (though people er complex, and not always consistent). Veronica's profession, we will have to wait and see.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Oct 2014, 08:22
I could also see Faye wanting Marten's shoulder to cry on (and most of his time), and Claire being all 'back the hell off my man, you had your shot.'

With, of course, Marten stuck in the middle.

This seems like the most likely scenario to me, not only because I can see it happening, but also because it plays off of the issues we already know Claire has because of her history with her father. That's where we find out how much Claire and Marten have grown as individuals... Claire would have to resist the urge to lump Marten in with her dad (amid situations, thanks to Jeph, that're likely to look much worse than what they are). Meantime, Marten -- faced with Claire's habitual wariness -- is going to have to keep from making the same mistakes that he did when faced with Dora's insecurities.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 05 Oct 2014, 08:40

I can see claire and Faye arguing in the near future. If Fay and Angus break up, Marten and Claire get together, I imagine Claire will be floating on clouds while Faye would probably feel horrific.

"Just because you are sad doesn't mean I can't be happy!" is an argument I've had and could see happen here. And then poor marten would be stuck in the middle

I feel like Faye has grown a lot over the years, I could imagine her handling Marten's happiness extremely well and wanting the best for him rather than dwelling on her own pain and punishing Marten's girlfriend for it
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 05 Oct 2014, 09:05
Dammit!  Missed the opportunity to do a WCDT again.

Oh well.  I think that speculations on the SS Claire/Marten are premature at this time (fun, but premature), and the interaction of Veronica and ClaireMom is speculating in the extreme. 

I'm at a loss to figure out why people think Jim of Secret Bakery fame is the ex.  It requires a complete reliance on the overused trope that everyone is related to someone else as there is only the flimsiest evidence to support the contention.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 05 Oct 2014, 09:08
It hadn't crossed my mind until you people brought it up, but Veronica meeting Clairemom is

Something
I
Must
See
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 05 Oct 2014, 09:17
This week: Something something awkward Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mlle Germain on 05 Oct 2014, 09:18
I'm at a loss to figure out why people think Jim of Secret Bakery fame is the ex.  It requires a complete reliance on the overused trope that everyone is related to someone else as there is only the flimsiest evidence to support the contention.
I think the person in the original post said Jimbo, not Jim, but then people confused the two. That it's Jim is really out of the question since 1) he would be very young to have a kid Claire's age (if I recall correctly, he's 41, Claire's 24), 2) we know for a fact Sam is his only child as he says so several times in comic. No idea while people discussed the idea so much. (Although it might have been people who hadn't read all of the comic or at least didn't remember all of it - possibly Jimbo was before their time. They were pretty new to the forum.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Oct 2014, 09:25
Not being familiar with Jimbo is a crime.  There have been many, many funny moments in QC, but the one that will make me laugh every single time (literally out loud, as my wife will attest with rolling eyes) is Jimbo's reaction (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2659) to the craft beer menu at the Horrible Revelation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Oct 2014, 09:33
I can see claire and Faye arguing in the near future. If Fay and Angus break up, Marten and Claire get together, I imagine Claire will be floating on clouds while Faye would probably feel horrific.

"Just because you are sad doesn't mean I can't be happy!" is an argument I've had and could see happen here. And then poor marten would be stuck in the middle

Claire is also one of the new cast members who takes none of Faye's shit. So there's strong potential for conflict there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 05 Oct 2014, 10:18
 Jealousy would make sense, but it'd also be a complete rehash of Marten and Dora. I think one thing in favor of the jealousy angle not happening is that Faye kind of orchestrated this whole thing. She made Claire confront her feelings, suggested they go back to their place and bowed out when the time was right.

She may or may not even be responsible for the disappearing Hanners. I hope she remembers to let her out of that supply closet.

Quote
Claire is also one of the new cast members who takes none of Faye's shit. So there's strong potential for conflict there.

I don't think that's really true. She called her dumb, but that was her herself doing something dumb and talking without thinking. Which earned her a new hat.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 05 Oct 2014, 11:06
Reading the comments here I wonder whether, if Faye and Angus do break up, that it would be Claire who does most of the supporting of Faye?  Of course, I don't see Faye and Angus breaking up soon.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 05 Oct 2014, 11:49
That would be a good counter to the conflict idea. Instead of conflict, Claire supports faye as thanks for helping her with Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 05 Oct 2014, 11:54
Yeah, Faye getting jealous of Marten and Claire would make no sense after the night at the bar.  I don't think Claire would do a lot of standing up to Faye though... She's been terrified of her in the past (beer can on the head incident at the CoD). Claire tends to be pretty shy and retiring most of the time anyway, until something pushes her buttons.  I can't see Faye lashing out at other couples around her even if she and Angus broke up. She'd be sad and upset, no doubt. But she's more likely to turn to her friends for support than be angry at them for being in happy relationships.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 05 Oct 2014, 13:01
If anything, I think it could be Claire who initiates any conflict. Marten will just want to be there for his friend but, depending on how secure Claire feels in any hypothetical relationship, she may feel threatened by this.

That said, one of the outcomes of the current Angus Callback arc that I predicted from the start is Faye having a bout of rebound or anxiety sex with either Marten or Sven. The story then would be more about her regretting her weakness and, being Faye, responding to this with random explosions of anger at anyone dumb enough to cross her path.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bryntheskits on 05 Oct 2014, 13:10
I like my Martéclaire contraction more.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 05 Oct 2014, 13:11
Plot twist

Faye and CLINTON hook up



The details I leave to your vivid imaginations.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Oct 2014, 13:18
Thank you so much for the mental image of what accessories Clinton might have for his robot hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 05 Oct 2014, 13:24
You're welcome

I'm here all week   :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 05 Oct 2014, 13:34
If anything, I think it could be Claire who initiates any conflict. Marten will just want to be there for his friend but, depending on how secure Claire feels in any hypothetical relationship, she may feel threatened by this.
So, in other words, exactly a plotline that was done with Dora?

I mean, I could see it happening IRL...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 05 Oct 2014, 13:35
Poor Clinton's going to need more robot parts. Because Faye would break him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 05 Oct 2014, 13:38
Plot twist

Faye and CLINTON hook up



The details I leave to your vivid imaginations.
I don't think the world is ready for this. And imagine how much sibling bickering this would lead to!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 05 Oct 2014, 14:06
Not being familiar with Jimbo is a crime.  There have been many, many funny moments in QC, but the one that will make me laugh every single time (literally out loud, as my wife will attest with rolling eyes) is Jimbo's reaction (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2659) to the craft beer menu at the Horrible Revelation.

"I'll have a yellow one." (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2660)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Oct 2014, 14:11
That said, one of the outcomes of the current Angus Callback arc that I predicted from the start is Faye having a bout of rebound or anxiety sex with either Marten or Sven. The story then would be more about her regretting her weakness and, being Faye, responding to this with random explosions of anger at anyone dumb enough to cross her path.

Sven, not Marten (I don't think, anyway). That doesn't mean that Claire might not jump to that conclusion the same way Dora did, as I kinda alluded to above. I think that the last couple of weeks, a lot of what I've been "expecting" in-comic, or a lot of the way I've thought it might pan out, has been filtered through what I'd expect from a storytelling perspective as much as what I'd otherwise like or expect to happen. That's the other reason I think a Faye/Sven hookup would be in the cards if (but only if) she breaks up with Angus: depending on how things play out between Dora and Sven, a Fave/Sven situation would lead to hella drama, but would also send the story off in some potentially interesting directions.

Just my $.02 worth, mind you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: swapna on 05 Oct 2014, 15:12
Oh please not Clinton, every time that guy shows up he's either creepy or rude or insults people or makes an ass out of himself. And I hope not Sven either, not after his weird character development - didn't he use to be more mature?

And I kiinda go against the flow I think, when I don't want Marten and Claire to get together. Why... Well, while Claire as a character is interesting, I really don't want her to show up and 'NOT JUDGE PEOPLE' all the time - I realise that all the characters have flaws which makes them interesting, but Claire telling people that they're stupid or that their interest in books is worth less than hers because it's different gets on my nerves pretty fast. She's good as a secondary character but as a primary?

On Faye/Angus-Drama: I hope they make it work long-distance if Angus gets the job. I hope he doesn't or commutes a lot because at the moment he's interesting and funny, and handles his relationship like a grown-up. Faye does, too, and I like that a lot about her and them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Oct 2014, 15:19
And I kiinda go against the flow I think, when I don't want Marten and Claire to get together. Why... Well, while Claire as a character is interesting, I really don't want her to show up and 'NOT JUDGE PEOPLE' all the time - I realise that all the characters have flaws which makes them interesting, but Claire telling people that they're stupid or that their interest in books is worth less than hers because it's different gets on my nerves pretty fast. She's good as a secondary character but as a primary?

Yeah, but bear in mind that a lot of the "main" cast started off as secondary characters. Don't forget that a lot of them had (and still have) their quirks, but that in most cases (with the seeming exception of Sven), they're working through them and growing from the experience. Even Clinton's personality makes a lot more sense once you realize what motivates it... and something tells me we'll see more of that motivation the more we learn of their mom and the whole family dynamic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blood-Tree on 05 Oct 2014, 15:22
I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Oct 2014, 15:43
You keep makin' sense, boy, and Imma have to make with the arm breakin'.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AJ_ on 05 Oct 2014, 15:55
I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:
Has there ever been a week where nothing changes
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 05 Oct 2014, 15:58
Does guest week count?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 05 Oct 2014, 16:01
And the Sunday evening refresh button pressing begins in earnest
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blood-Tree on 05 Oct 2014, 16:06
Has there ever been a week where nothing changes

Well I did say it was a bold prediction  :-P

There have been plenty of weeks where nothing has really changed in terms of plot lines being resolved. QC moves at a fairly glacial pace most of the time.

For what it's worth, I think it will be interesting to see what happens when Marten talks to Tai about Clairegate at some point in the next few weeks, especially now that she's becoming his main confidante.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Knight of Cydonia on 05 Oct 2014, 16:07
I can't wait for another week month of characters dancing around their issues and no important plot points developing!

this is how we make it happen right
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 16:12
I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:
Has there ever been a week where nothing changes
Yeah, plenty of times.

Also I'm not saying this as a mod because it's not against policy, but holy shit I hate that small text gag so much. Just use a spoiler tag, the joke still works and is much less obnoxious.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Oct 2014, 17:19
I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:
Has there ever been a week where nothing changes

Yeah, guest strip week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 17:42
That doesn't count as a week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 05 Oct 2014, 17:56
Stop the presses, the new strip is up.

THAT LAST PANEL.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 05 Oct 2014, 17:57
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 05 Oct 2014, 17:58
I'm squeeing so hard in my head right now. This is either gonna be romantic, or friendly- either way I am going to be devastated.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Oct 2014, 18:00
Oh HELL yes.  You go ahead Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Auramis on 05 Oct 2014, 18:01
Intensified squee'ing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 05 Oct 2014, 18:01
its up *squeeeeeeeee*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Meilu on 05 Oct 2014, 18:05
Cripes. Never thought I could get jealous of a comic character I so closely identify with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 05 Oct 2014, 18:05
Jesus, my hands are shaking. I mean, that's probably because I didn't eat today, but this also makes my heart race. Which feels weird if one didn't eat for a while.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 05 Oct 2014, 18:06
Blushing Claire is going to be my new phone wallpaper... HOW CAN THIS END IN ANYTHING BUT HAPPIES?!?!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 05 Oct 2014, 18:06
IT'S HAPPENING! I AM SO EXCITED!

But really I haven't been this excited about QC in a long time. Good shit right here.

Edit: Another thought. I wonder how long Jeph has had this story line planned out?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 05 Oct 2014, 18:09
Blushing Claire is going to be my new phone wallpaper... HOW CAN THIS END IN ANYTHING BUT HAPPIES?!?!
I can think of a few ways. The most obvious one right now is that we don't exactly know what Claire's thinking right now. We might have an incoming panic attack or something of the sort.

Though we might also have incoming smooching. I give it 50/50 odds at this point, since Marten seems to have made up his mind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 05 Oct 2014, 18:11
I'm going to be squeeing until tomorrow night, when Clinton walks in and ruins the moment.

But that is tomorrow.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:11
So...cute....

/kawaii fugue

In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.

Or maybe I'm just overly emotionally sensitive given my recent breakup from a 3 year relationship, and that gesture isn't a big deal.  :psyduck:


As an aside, can I just say I love the psyduck emote? It seems to be a fitting image of my mental state of mind about 50% of the time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Oct 2014, 18:15
It's a big enough deal that it has a wordless panel all to itself. :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:16
...Ready!?!

1--
-2--
---Squeeeeeeeee!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 05 Oct 2014, 18:17
Marten looks so earnest.  And so intensely open right now. 

Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt. 

But for now, happies all around! 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Oct 2014, 18:20
Warning: An intense squee-storm has been detected in the vicinity of Northampton, Massachusetts. Local residents are advised to take cover immediately.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 05 Oct 2014, 18:24
In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.

Can you smell the character growth? Because I can!

Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt. 

Agreed. But I think that Marten will shoot down the professional issue by saying he doesn't care and with Tai as their superior it doesn't really matter (not to mention the research librarians who like to tell workers that they are janitors).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 05 Oct 2014, 18:25
Cue a week of the two gazing meaningfully into each others' eyes, ended by Cereal Steve on Friday. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Oct 2014, 18:29
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 05 Oct 2014, 18:32
Jesus, my hands are shaking. I mean, that's probably because I didn't eat today, but this also makes my heart race. Which feels weird if one didn't eat for a while.
You should eat. And looking at panel one, so should Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 05 Oct 2014, 18:34
All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morning
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 05 Oct 2014, 18:35
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...

There was also this.... http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2802 Maybe with maple syrup this time?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 05 Oct 2014, 18:35
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...

It is a powerful gesture. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 05 Oct 2014, 18:37
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...

Yes, but in the short term, it led to banging.  And Claire-mom is in the next room....   :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iduguphergrave on 05 Oct 2014, 18:39
Tonights comic is proof that anything is possible with the power of pancakes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 05 Oct 2014, 18:39
I made an audible gasp for that last panel.

I don't... What?!

My guess is that Marten knows that nothing would ever happen if he just sat around and didn't do anything, and he has been getting better at taking charge of his life lately. Now the question is how Claire will respond to this. Martens feelings seem pretty clear, I doubt he'd do any of this just to tell her "We can't date/I don't want to date you"

in that case he's an oblivious asshole. But to be faire, he seems happy to be there. Almost drunk...
... with love?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:40
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...

Yes, but in the short term, it led to banging.  And Claire-mom is in the next room....   :psyduck:

Let's not get ahead ourselves, here. I'm looking forward to a nice, wholesome talk about last night  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CUBErt on 05 Oct 2014, 18:40
I want this to work so, so much, but I'm also completely terrified because I'm looking at the way it's going right now and my mind is screaming "NO."

Claire is obviously freaking out. As much as I know Marten's head and heart are in a good place, we have no idea what kind of reaction his grabbing her hand is going to have. A lot of people would interpret it as an attempt at a comforting gesture, and who knows, it might work (I hope it does I hope it does); but it might also have the opposite affect. And it feels like this is all happening way too quickly for it to end well. .-.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 05 Oct 2014, 18:41
In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.

Can you smell the character growth? Because I can!

Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt. 

Agreed. But I think that Marten will shoot down the professional issue by saying he doesn't care and with Tai as their superior it doesn't really matter (not to mention the research librarians who like to tell workers that they are janitors).

The comic hasn't even been up for an hour, and all my thoughts have been ninja'd. CURSE ALL OF YOU.
Also, all the squeeing must be causing dogs to have a the biggest freakout ever. Holy crap.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 05 Oct 2014, 18:43

It's a big enough deal that it has a wordless panel all to itself. :-D

This. Precisely this. Anything that happens after that is going to be squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:45
All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morning

Does Germany not have 7-11?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:50
What do you guys think of the title for this strip?

Quote
While I'm Here

Hmm. What does it mean?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Oct 2014, 18:52
Now departing...


And while I'm here I think would be related to Marten friend being over for breakie. "So while I'm here... about last night"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Oct 2014, 18:53
What do you guys think of the title for this strip?

Quote
While I'm Here

Hmm. What does it mean?


Could be a way of saying, "While I'm here, we'd might as well talk this out"?

The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...

As anything involving Sven was bound to. I can see any number of ways and reasons this goes nowhere in the short term (although I'd love to see it happen), but I think that'd just be a speed bump, not a wall.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 05 Oct 2014, 18:54

It's a big enough deal that it has a wordless panel all to itself. :-D

This. Precisely this. Anything that happens after that is going to be squee.
Unless ativan is involved. It's been mentioned before, but Claire looks like she needs a moment to catch her breath or something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 18:55
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
You're right, it was followed by a WEEK OF GUEST STRIPS :psyduck:

Edit: HOLY SHIT SIXTEEN REDTEXT REPLIES

All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morning
Do you not have a 7-11/Wawa type store in your country?

Hahaha, one of those redtext replies was this, and another one was someone asking THAT EXACT QUESTION
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:56
"So while I'm here... about last night"

Oh, that's good. That gives me hope that his priority is to keep Claire calm.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 05 Oct 2014, 18:58
I made an audible gasp for that last panel.

I don't... What?!

My guess is that Marten knows that nothing would ever happen if he just sat around and didn't do anything, and he has been getting better at taking charge of his life lately. Now the question is how Claire will respond to this. Martens feelings seem pretty clear, I doubt he'd do any of this just to tell her "We can't date/I don't want to date you"

in that case he's an oblivious asshole. But to be faire, he seems happy to be there. Almost drunk...
... with love?

I'm not sure he's drunk, I think he's just happy. He knows Claire is a genuinely good person, he knows he enjoys her company, and he knows that there is a mutual attraction there. There's not a bunch of emotional baggage/tension like with Faye or Dora, and the relationship didn't immediately escalate to physicality like with Padma. His other relationships (or near-relationships) all started rather abruptly, with very little warning. This is the first relationship Marten's had that started as a friendship and gradually and naturally grew into something more. However, it's not like Marten has spent weeks or months mooning after her or is agonizing over how to proceed with things. He's had time to think about the possibility and approach the situation on his own terms.

So from my perspective, Marten is just happy. He knows he is not at risk emotionally for two reasons: Claire is clearly attracted to him, so the risk of being turned down is unlikely if he doesn't rush things and freak her out. Also, while Marten is clearly attracted to Claire, it doesn't seem to be a "I LOVE YOUUUUUUU PLEASE BE WITH ME" attraction a la Sven with Faye. He knows he would be happy in a relationship, but it seems to me that he would still be happy while not in a relationship, so he doesn't feel the pressure to "get" someone. He also knows that Claire is definitely at risk emotionally right now, and as her friend he wants her to be happy. So he's making his advances politely and openly, trying to make sure there's as little risk of causing a Claire freakout as possible.

I agree though, old Marten would never have handled it like this. That may be why you thought he's acting like he would if he were drunk.

Sorry for the wall of text.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 05 Oct 2014, 19:03
Sorry for the wall of text.

Thank you for writing that up. I haven't gone back through the recent strips yet, and you gave a context to this strip that was very well thought out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 05 Oct 2014, 19:07
And them it was all a dream.
(click to show/hide)

Have anyone noticed that Claire mother got curvier?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 05 Oct 2014, 19:11
squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

aaaand now my coworkers are staring at me.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 05 Oct 2014, 19:12
I wonder what Lt. Potter is up to.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aquaisces on 05 Oct 2014, 19:15
Have anyone noticed that Claire mother got curvier?

I think it was just the way she was standing before.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PLGRN8R on 05 Oct 2014, 19:17
1. SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
2. Go Marten!
3. Claire, look deeply into his eyes in tomorrow's comic and I promise it will all end well!
4. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Oct 2014, 19:20
Welcome, new person!

Marten is being so good I expect everyone within a thousand feet including the straight men to fall in love with him.

Someone must tell Hanners soon so that adequate and professional squeeing can take place.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 05 Oct 2014, 19:24
Have anyone noticed that Claire mother got curvier?

I think it was just the way she was standing before.

No, compare with the last panel here
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2804
She looked more on the slim side but now she is getting curvy! If the trend keeps going on she will take Faye's place as the curvy girl and make Swen go nuts! Pancakes sure make miracles!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 05 Oct 2014, 19:28
Yes, but in the short term, it led to banging.  And Claire-mom is in the next room....   :psyduck:

Is this the script for some threesome pancake porn?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 05 Oct 2014, 19:31
No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 05 Oct 2014, 19:37
We still have the Dora-Sven fallout waiting to happen as well as the Angus interview situation.  Will the arcs merge? 

I'm looking forward to Marten developing his new assertiveness.

I completely forgot about the Angus thing.  Still waiting on Jeph to drop that bomb over here...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 05 Oct 2014, 19:39
I haven't been more invested in a story since I read Harry Potter.  (SO MANY FEELS)  While I'm happy that it seems to be going well, I am still holding back from completely squeeing in joy until we see Claire's reactions to everything.  The pieces are all there, the only variable now is any potential anxiety attacks. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 05 Oct 2014, 19:43
At least the Angus and Sven things are poised to provide drama and unhappiness, meaning this doesn't have to. Story wise it's perfectly okay for something to be perfectly okay.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nyithra on 05 Oct 2014, 19:43
Oh god I giggled like an idiot at that last panel.

Go Marten, you surprisingly smooth bastard!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 19:50
No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.
In some ways, that seems good, but what about workers who are night people? I guess they're right fucked, eh?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 05 Oct 2014, 19:51
Yeah well, if they work at night, they're supposed to work then, right? :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 19:52
Well yeah, but it seems like their night working hours are being artificially limited if stores have to close by a certain time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 05 Oct 2014, 20:03
Oh god I giggled like an idiot at that last panel.

Go Marten, you surprisingly smooth bastard!

But is he Calrissian smooth?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 05 Oct 2014, 20:04
Ah, I had misunderstood you. Well, if you're a night person, I guess you're not supposed to work in shops then?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 20:09
Well where else are you supposed to work? Nothing's open that late!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 05 Oct 2014, 20:11
Oh god I giggled like an idiot at that last panel.

Go Marten, you surprisingly smooth bastard!

But is he Calrissian smooth?
He's more likely to be about as smooth as high-grit sandpaper.  Or Claire might have an anxiety attack.  Or they may have a day off, and decide to get rather "friendly", and are interrupted with Faye having a crisis, or Pintsize… well, just being himself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 05 Oct 2014, 20:15
I hate to be that gal, but...does it look like Marten's going for a handshake? Maybe a "well done on not taking advantage of a drunk" handshake?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 20:16
Not really, no.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: samuraisc on 05 Oct 2014, 20:17
I almost loudly exclaimed "YEESSSS!" before I realized everyone else in the house is asleep right now. I quickly shifted gears and let out a low "yeeeeeessss" and creeped myself out. Either way, there is a whole lot of "YES" in today's strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 20:21
THE LITTLE HATS
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 05 Oct 2014, 20:23
Yesssss.  The haaaats.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CUBErt on 05 Oct 2014, 20:23
I hate to be that gal, but...does it look like Marten's going for a handshake? Maybe a "well done on not taking advantage of a drunk" handshake?

Not in the slightest.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: samuraisc on 05 Oct 2014, 20:25
THE LITTLE HATS

CRAP I USED TO HAVE A LITTLE HAT SOMEWHERE IN MY ROOM I COULD'VE TOTALLY DEFUSED MY OWN CREEPINESS WITH REFERENTIAL HUMOR

My life is a series of mostly inconsequential missed opportunities.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LocoJoe on 05 Oct 2014, 20:26
That was the first time that I loudly squeeeeeeeee'd in a very long time.

I needed that. Thanks, Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 20:27
THE LITTLE HATS

CRAP I USED TO HAVE A LITTLE HAT SOMEWHERE IN MY ROOM I COULD'VE TOTALLY DEFUSED MY OWN CREEPINESS WITH REFERENTIAL HUMOR

My life is a series of mostly inconsequential missed opportunities.
Anything little you can balance on your head can be a LITTLE HAT, YESSSSSSSSS
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: samuraisc on 05 Oct 2014, 20:29
THE LITTLE HATS

CRAP I USED TO HAVE A LITTLE HAT SOMEWHERE IN MY ROOM I COULD'VE TOTALLY DEFUSED MY OWN CREEPINESS WITH REFERENTIAL HUMOR

My life is a series of mostly inconsequential missed opportunities.
Anything little you can balance on your head can be a LITTLE HAT, YESSSSSSSSS

Attempted with nearest cat. Got the mean one. It ended predictably.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 21:04
Had to temporarily move a few posts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 05 Oct 2014, 21:18
Let's see - first Momo and Dale make pancakes for Marigold, and ....

Now - Clairemom makes pancakes for Marten and ...

PANCAKES - IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN'T DO?

/i want Jeph's recipe for pancakes.
//so does my wife
///or ... is it the syrup?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 05 Oct 2014, 21:24
Isn't Jeph Canadian? Them authentic maple syrup is the answer!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 21:26
According to the wiki, he was born in Maryland and he now lives in Massachusetts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 05 Oct 2014, 21:29
So we are back to the recipe.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 21:33
Recipe?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 05 Oct 2014, 21:35
Pretty sure T is referencing this post:

Let's see - first Momo and Dale make pancakes for Marigold, and ....

Now - Clairemom makes pancakes for Marten and ...

PANCAKES - IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN'T DO?

/i want Jeph's recipe for pancakes.
//so does my wife
///or ... is it the syrup?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Oct 2014, 21:42
Oh.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Toe on 05 Oct 2014, 21:50
Lotsa people obviously ready to ship this, but I don't know if Claire's ready for this just yet. I'm guessing her relationship experience is approximately zero, which is enough fuel itself to be in freakout mode. And then you have the, ah, Claire-specific reasons she might freak out, and, well, I could definitely see her pushing Marten away. For now, at least...

He also knows that Claire is definitely at risk emotionally right now, and as her friend he wants her to be happy. So he's making his advances politely and openly, trying to make sure there's as little risk of causing a Claire freakout as possible.

Other than doing all of this with her mom present...

The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...

Amusingly, Jeph's skill in drawing hands seems to have gotten worse since that time. At least Faye had fingernails....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 05 Oct 2014, 22:06
You don't have finger nails on your palm. Martenfriend's right hand is reaching for Claire's left.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Toe on 05 Oct 2014, 22:13
You don't have finger nails on your palm. Martenfriend's right hand is reaching for Claire's left.

Uhhh, if that's Claire's left hand in the last frame, either her palm is up and her fingers bend back like a mofo (wouldn't be the first time we've seen joints that bend the wrong way (http://i.imgur.com/9S2ra.png)...), or her palm is down and she doesn't have a left thumb. :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 05 Oct 2014, 22:21
Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 05 Oct 2014, 22:22
*Cue swelling music*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 05 Oct 2014, 22:28
Or, Marten is simply taking her hand before telling her she is a nice and important person and that he would be happy to consider himself a friend of hers.
(Glad to see I am not the only one with that kind of drama in my life right now...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 05 Oct 2014, 23:02
In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.

Can you smell the character growth? Because I can!

Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt. 

Agreed. But I think that Marten will shoot down the professional issue by saying he doesn't care and with Tai as their superior it doesn't really matter (not to mention the research librarians who like to tell workers that they are janitors).

The comic hasn't even been up for an hour, and all my thoughts have been ninja'd. CURSE ALL OF YOU.
Also, all the squeeing must be causing dogs to have a the biggest freakout ever. Holy crap.
I agree, that's the problem with not accessing a computer/smartphone until 7am CE(S)T when everybody read the strip 3-4 hours ago.

Anyway, I agree with Ryan. Claire is freaking out and Martens way of handling it seems to be the best way forward. I'm guessing he'll say something like "I liked what happened last night, and if you want, we can continue where we left off as soon as you feel you're ready for it". He'll probably use a lot more words, or even a whole dictionary, and hopefully it will end in a big (and not very chaste) hug.


All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morning

Does Germany not have 7-11?
Well, AFAIK, most 7-11 in Europe are actually open, you know, from 7-ish in the morning until like 11 in the evening*.


*Yes, there are exceptions, especially those affiliated with gas stations near major roads which often are open 24h.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 05 Oct 2014, 23:03
We *have* been waiting for the eating cereal troll post for awhile, it wouldn't surprise me to see something like that any time now
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Capon on 05 Oct 2014, 23:04
No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.

Gah, I remember staying overnight in a small township near Saarbrucken when I got the major case of the munchies. Biked around everywhere at 2 AM and completely horrified there were no 7/11s or Tim Hortons-style all-night diners. I live in a university town, where there are as many night marts as churches.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 05 Oct 2014, 23:43
Well it looks positive. I don't want to be a downer, however this could go bad, depending on Claire's reaction. She could:That said, it's nice that Marten is trying to reassure her. I'm thinking that Marten is going to suggest dating to see if there is more than physical attraction. Claire will agree, they'll start to make out and that is when pre- coffee Clinton staggers past and has to come back for a second look before he absorbs enough even to do a double-take! Mrs A will stop him acting out but I think she will have a list of reasonable rules for the house.

Long-term, who knows? I do expect Claire to blush whenever she says "boyfriend" for a while, if she takes the plunge!

The point is that Marten has decided, one way or the other. The ball is very much in Claire's court.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TuRmz on 05 Oct 2014, 23:45
I know many people are expecting Marten to initiate here, but for some reason I can't help feeling that he considers Claire a close friend more than a potential girlfriend

I fear that he may be coming over to apologize or otherwise defuse a dangerous situation he thinks that he put himself into with a good friend

There was just no hint of a more-than-friendly emotional lead-up on Martens side of the situation, only a rushed very drunken lead-up

ohgodihopeimwrong
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 05 Oct 2014, 23:46
I reckon Claire's head will explode.

RIP Claire
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 05 Oct 2014, 23:52
I think that Marten recognises that there is a mutual attraction. The question is how he wishes to address it. After all, he wasn't that drunk! He remembered it clearly. He is also being very tender, which isn't typical for him. If he wanted to let her down , I'd actually expect him to be more nervous!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Oct 2014, 23:56
Welcome, new person!

I doubt that even Marten and Claire know what they're feeling.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 06 Oct 2014, 00:08
Really? It looks to me like Marten has made up his mind for once.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ysth on 06 Oct 2014, 00:09
Now Claire's Mom's strategy is clear; she had to get Marten eating before calling Claire down because she knew he'd have no chance to after.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TuRmz on 06 Oct 2014, 00:19
I don't know. I guess the main thing that is throwing me off is that if this is really happening then Marten is in the midst of making an important adult decision about his relationship with Claire and DOESN'T SEEM FREAKED OUT OR HESITANT AT ALL

The QC universe might implode

And thank you for the welcome!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 06 Oct 2014, 00:20
I'm not sure that Marten has made up his mind, other that that he wants to clear the air about last night. The beauty of the hand-holding gesture is that it could go either way from that point onwards, but it means that whatever is going to be said or done is going to be honest.

Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.

That might happen, but it's very important for Claire that Marten gives her the chance to back out if she wants to, or else it'll be like last night again. They need to talk first.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Dazhbug on 06 Oct 2014, 00:32
To be perfectly frank, no matter which way things go I just have to be quietly happy at the level of openness and maturity Marten's using here. No silliness, just openly and clearly dealing with/progressing the situation. Hats off for the character writing here, Jeph.

(Yep, registered to post this. Back to lurking!)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElsaStegosaurus on 06 Oct 2014, 00:34
Marten may be a cool, collected customer for once in his life (and frankly his extreme zen is starting to damage my own calm), but I can see Claire possibly pulling away and/or freakin' out.  Stupid anxiety.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 06 Oct 2014, 00:40
I don't know. I guess the main thing that is throwing me off is that if this is really happening then Marten is in the midst of making an important adult decision about his relationship with Claire and DOESN'T SEEM FREAKED OUT OR HESITANT AT ALL

The QC universe might implode

And thank you for the welcome!

Maybe each scene has a maximum total of freakoutness, and Claire has used it all up, leaving Marten without any freakoutness left?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 06 Oct 2014, 00:50
Well it looks positive. I don't want to be a downer, however this could go bad, depending on Claire's reaction. She could:
  • Jump away like a scalded cat;
  • Burst into tears, say it can't happen and then beg Martin to leave;
  • Smile gratefully and then launch into the "we're better as friends" speech;
  • Claire shakes her head and says: "I'm not ready".
Excellent analysis for us non-shippers. I guess Marten is just trying to calm Claire down. Marten is happy just to be a good friend, and perhaps a regular back-scratcher.

Besides, imagine what would happen at the library if they hook up? Fast forward about 30 years, and we have a repeat of this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1133) scene.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 06 Oct 2014, 00:59
Hi everyone.

So... who's this Jeph guy, and why does he keep breaking the no shipping rule without consequences? Don't we have mods to handle such behaviour? :evil:

Instead of squeeing, let me just address a few questions about stores in germany. I'm sure marten and claire will work out their issues just fine without us.

No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.
There are exceptions to the protection laws of course: hospital staff, night guards, gas stations, .. and gas stations are allowed to sell snacks and other packaged food. It's quite pricey (so avoid when possible), but if you're ever in germany, at night, and you're hungry: find a gas station on a busy road.

Cities can grant special exceptions to opening hours, either for festivities or even permanent exceptions. I was stuck at cologne main station one night (missed the last train around 1 am, had to wait until 5 am for the next). I tried to stay at McDonalds, but they closed around 3 and re-opened at 5. I guess someone was really insistent on not allowing 24/7, but it's still the longest opening hours I've ever seen.

In some ways, that seems good, but what about workers who are night people? I guess they're right fucked, eh?
Ahh, sleeping at day, the luxuries of the single student days..
As part of growing up, one is expected to become a day person, I think. For me, it took some getting used to, but it worked. I still hate mornings, but I hate those anyway - no matter if they're at 7 am or 7 pm. If I eventually want to have a family (and I do), there's no way to stay a night person, anyway..

Nobody needs to work a day job AND a night job. Worker protection laws actually forbid anyone from working more than 10h per day (except in very special emergency situations), because if you don't have a proper recreational phase between shifts, both your health and your work performance suffer.

There are still night jobs, but usually organized as shift-work, with specific rules in place that one must not work more than X night shifts in a row. No, a worker cannot voluntarily forfeit those protections, because otherwise companies would apply pressure to workers to "voluntarily" do so.

So if you really really want to sleep all day and work all night, and you just cannot afford to stay at university until you're 65: get self-employed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 06 Oct 2014, 01:24
GAH! The weekend went well enough - I didn't have much trouble waiting for monday's strip. But now? It's agony having to wait for tomorrow's fix! THE PAIN!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BrusselSprouts on 06 Oct 2014, 01:26
Can I just express how wonderful it is to see Marten so at ease and relaxed about this? He's had some really shitty luck romance wise, and it's so good to see such a natural, healthy progression with him and Claire. Happy Marten is the best Marten.

also: Squee
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 06 Oct 2014, 01:44
You certainly can. I'm worried that Claire's reaction to all this might not be quite as healthy and level-headed. We'll see.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 06 Oct 2014, 01:50
I hate to be that gal, but...does it look like Marten's going for a handshake? Maybe a "well done on not taking advantage of a drunk" handshake?
Uh, no ?

He accepted an invite for breakfast.

As a dude, I definitely wouldnt do that, unless I'm actually interested into the girl.



Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.
Since when are you supposed to kiss HARD ?  :?



Well, AFAIK, most 7-11 in Europe are actually open, you know, from 7-ish in the morning until like 11 in the evening*.
Cant speak about other countries, but here in germany the shops open around 9 and close about 7 in the evening.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Saral on 06 Oct 2014, 02:23
I feel that the necessary caution has forced Marten to take the lead, and be comfortable to set the pace he's comfortable with. Now he's trying to move ahead in the relationship. Still this is only one step forward.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 06 Oct 2014, 02:41
Whatever pace and direction he decides to proceed, it's nice to see Marten to take the initiative. Whether they go all wuvvy-duvvy or it's just a case of "I like what we have and want it to continue", it's going to be a positive step in their development.

Nevertheless:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Detachable Felix on 06 Oct 2014, 02:50
Nevertheless:

(click to show/hide)

I just assumed there was an unspoken rule about 'no memes' on the forum.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Oct 2014, 02:55
Marten is comfortable, and has a pretty good idea of what direction he'd like to take this.  But Claire is confused, and has been caught on the hop, not only by Marten, perhaps, but also by her own emotions.  I think that by now we can be confident enough that Marten will handle himself tolerably well, however this proceeds - so the more significant parts of the story that is now developing will be those about Claire, and how she will be able to recognise and cope with her feelings.

I just assumed there was an unspoken rule about 'no memes' on the forum.

Not a strict rule, but a sense of disapproval - which is written.  See here: point 6 (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27423.msg1056736.html#msg1056736).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 06 Oct 2014, 03:23
Please note the similarity in holding hands to #1191 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191). But Jeph's hand drawing technique has deteriorated, he forgot to draw nails this time.

Again, if the universe is deterministic, I would assume Marten and Claire hook up for a short while, until Marten meets Gina Riversmith (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1334) or someone similar.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 03:24
Since when are you supposed to kiss HARD ?  :?

Yeah, kissing hard would be awkward at this stage.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 06 Oct 2014, 03:27
Maybe the kisses will be hard because of the lack of lips?  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 06 Oct 2014, 03:31
Maybe the kisses will be hard because of the lack of lips?  :lol:
:facepalm: Also, Marten should stay clear of Claire's dangerously sharp nose and chin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 06 Oct 2014, 03:33
I just assumed there was an unspoken rule about 'no memes' on the forum.

Not a strict rule, but a sense of disapproval - which is written.  See here: point 6 (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27423.msg1056736.html#msg1056736).
Sorry, but nothing else seemed to be able to convey my thoughts, and squeeing just didn't cut it.

Warning - while you were typing a new meme has been created. You may wish to intercept and destroy it before it catches on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 06 Oct 2014, 03:34
Hi there, long time lurker, first time poster.

I finally got an account to share my cynical projections about what is going to happen. I wanna preface this by saying that I am 100% invested in Claire and Marten happening, and have been so excited about it that on numerous occasions I have been woken up at five in the morning by my own enthusiasm to check for the next update. Admittedly, I wish I hadn't admitted that because now I sound like a huge nerd.

That being said, I don't think that this is where it is going. At least, not right now. My projection for tomorrow is that Marten will squeeze Claire's hand tightly, look deeply into her eyes and say, 'Hey, I'm sorry about yesterday, it wasn't your fault, I was drunk and overly handsy, it won't happen again, we still chill bro?', or something to that effect.

The reason I think that is because Marten is a total doof, god bless him. All these women have dug him in the past and he has been totally oblivious to every single one of them. I'm not so sure that Marten's big, beatific smile is because he is so super ready to make a commitment and say what he wants. I think he just has no idea what he has walked into. I think he went over to apologise to her because he knows that she is delicate and inexperienced and so, because he is a gorgeous darling, he didn't want to cause her anxiety or stress because of his actions. So he has gone over there to make sure she is okay and unharmed by his actions, when in fact he might be doing all the more damage by doing so. So he has gone over there, all cool and confident, because he is just gonna smooth things out and set his lovely friend's mind at ease, easy peasy.

That's what I think will happen. What I want to happen is the most epic and life changing kiss of all time, followed by a big wedding and thousands of babies. But I refuse to get my hopes up yet. [/pessimism]
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 06 Oct 2014, 03:45
From this comic (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803), lt looks like what Marten is recalling is Claire looking soulfully into his eyes, and that tells me that there is more to his morning visit than just an apology. But i fear you might be right, Gnomeybum. Also, welcome!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 06 Oct 2014, 04:33
*Cue swelling music*

Right, boss.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bryntheskits on 06 Oct 2014, 04:51
This was Clairemum's plan aaaallllll along mwahahaaa
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 06 Oct 2014, 05:10
Hi there, long time lurker, first time poster.
Welcome to the madhouse!

Quote
My projection for tomorrow is that Marten will squeeze Claire's hand tightly, look deeply into her eyes and say, 'Hey, I'm sorry about yesterday, it wasn't your fault, I was drunk and overly handsy, it won't happen again, we still chill bro?', or something to that effect.
If I wanted to say that, I don't think I've have grabbed her hand like he did. That would convey a mixed message.

Quote
What I want to happen is the most epic and life changing kiss of all time, followed by a big wedding and thousands of babies.[/pessimism]
It won't be as easy as that. "The course of true love never did run smooth." quoth The Bard...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 06 Oct 2014, 05:13
But Jeph's hand drawing technique has deteriorated, he forgot to draw nails this time.
Eh, "forgetting a detail" isn't "has deteriorated" until it's a trend. For now I'm going with: "Claire is using the proper waterproof covering for Clinton's hand because: A) He's her little brother and she likes to prank him; B) It leaves no fingerprints and C) she intends to crack the safe in which the Smif library's Victorian Porn (TM) is kept, because that was HER evil plan all along.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 05:16
Well, Marten is smart enough to know Claire is attracted, he can be passive but not dumb.
And he is a nice guy, I can't see he going to Claire house only to say "Is better we be just friends". This would be very cruel, and if this are their plans he should be freaking out with fear of hurting Claire.
But, the situation is very complex. Some weeks ago he was overthinking if Emily was attracted for him, because she is a intern, as Claire. I can see he freaking out as the breakfast ends.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 06 Oct 2014, 05:17
Claire's blush indicates that she's smitten with Marten. An idea that has been germinating for some time.
Marten's gentle smile shows he really cares for Claire. Also an idea that has been germinating for some time. He's grown up. Husband material now.

If that's not falling in love, it will suffice.

As for Clairemom - accent is on the "mom". That's what she is. A mother. Yes, corny, old-fashioned, but the kind who would do anything for her kids, including going well outside her personal comfort zone. What she's doing now is more traditional and comforting, her unusual daughter has got a boyfriend, and from first impressions, he's rather sweet. A nice boy.

I expect the first kiss to be a tender one, Marten gently kissing Claire on the forehead, then looking deeply into her eyes. The second kiss.. perhaps better offscreen, give them some privacy.

squee
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 05:33
And if 2806 not have nails, the overall art is just way better than 1191.
Really, en 1191 the anatomy is just wrong and the clothes have no weight.
But we not read this comic because the draw, right? Well, take a look in 150 or 200. No way I read this comic because of the art.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 05:34
I'm still hoping that they decide to date formally before making any formal decisions vis a long-term relationship. This is mostly because I'm enough of an old romantic that the idea of Martin taking Claire out on the town and treating her like a woman whose happiness he values would be a wonderful thing to see and I think it is something that would do her the greatest good.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RaineThing on 06 Oct 2014, 05:39
My SQUEE cannot be contained!
I made the nose out-loud and am embarrassed now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 06 Oct 2014, 05:58
But Jeph's hand drawing technique has deteriorated, he forgot to draw nails this time.
  Uh-hu. "deteriorated" ? Its called artstyle.

I'm fairly sure Jeph still knows about fingernails, and I'm fairly sure they arent that hard to draw if he wanted to draw them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 06 Oct 2014, 06:00
MFW ClaireXMarten ship teases are going down.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10640994_10152830821700815_2297121092901258633_n.jpg?oh=7adb645de8406c7feb53eed943ba2dd7&oe=54CB12E9&__gda__=1420549526_fed148705927319ad6f92cfbb646f912)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 06:29
Besides, imagine what would happen at the library if they hook up? Fast forward about 30 years, and we have a repeat of this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1133) scene.

They'd probably become notorious with the students at Smif College. "Oh, It's Mr Reed and Ms Augustus! Yeah, thirty years and they're still acting like teens in love! Just take your insulin shots if you encounter them in a 'honeymoon' mood!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mystere9 on 06 Oct 2014, 06:34
BUT GAIZ. WHAT IS STEVE UP TO? THIS IS IMPORTANT GAIZ.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 06:51
BUT GAIZ. WHAT IS STEVE UP TO? THIS IS IMPORTANT GAIZ.

I would love to see Cosette's reaction to an army of leprechaun-bots marching in to deliver Steve's reward for saving that marketing bot from a packet of cereal!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 06 Oct 2014, 07:00
BUT GAIZ. WHAT IS STEVE UP TO? THIS IS IMPORTANT GAIZ.

Well, it's October, so probably BooBerry.  I hope this helped.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 06 Oct 2014, 07:06
Blushing Claire is going to be my new phone wallpaper... HOW CAN THIS END IN ANYTHING BUT HAPPIES?!?!

I refer you to real life, where there are no guarantees, and to the archives of this and other fine webcomics.

I would like some happies for these characters, but my wishes are no guarantee there will be a happy ending.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 07:07
Right, but this isn't real life, it's a quaint alternate reality with talking robots. I stand by my SQUEE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 07:26
Right, but this isn't real life, it's a quaint alternate reality with talking robots. I stand by my SQUEE

In fairness, we have no idea what Jeph's long-term plan may be. For all we know, Marten and Claire may choose to remain friends, Dora and Tai may have a bad break-up, leading Dora to go back to Marten; Claire may then resume her underground guerilla war to persuade Hannelore to overcome her fears and date her brother!

Crazy? I'm just pointing out that we have no idea whatsoever where any of this is ultimately going!

FWIW, I have spent a little time puzzling over the sketch of Jeph's poster on his Tumblr account. Basically, it looks like Claire and Marten are standing far too close to be just friends and, no matter how closely I squint, I can't tell if Martin is gesturing or if Claire has hooked her arm through the crook of his elbow. This leads me to conclude that, at least in the medium-term, Marten and Claire are going to be a thing. The fact that Hannelore is apart from the rest of the cast and talking to them indicates to me that she will have a role too, possibly as their crazy neighbour, shades of Phoebe in Friends.

We really need a Questionable Content Kremlinology thread as a home for minute close analysis of art as well as Jeph's Tumblr and Twitter posts for clues as to the future direction of the strip!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 07:26
On one hand, the analytical side of me recognizes the silliness of trying to extrapolate how the story is going to go based on nuances as small as whether Marten looks particularly relaxed in Claire's presence today. 

On the other hand, I'm looking at my wall, where a print of the 2014 cast hangs (you can buy that here (http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-CASTPOSTER2014&Category_Code=QC), btw; it's awesome), and there are only two pairs of people that are standing in each other's 'personal space:'  Tai and Dora, and Marten and Claire.  Also (and this is REALLY GOING INTO BLOODY TINFOIL HAT TERRITORY), when I look at that print, I find myself wondering what Claire's other arm is up to.

More than anything else, that print is what makes me think this will (eventually) go well for Marten and Claire.  Mind you, I know how silly that is, but it gets me through to the next strip.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 07:27
Holy shit dude.  Jinx.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 06 Oct 2014, 07:33
I find myself wondering what Claire's other arm is up to.

This is Questionable Content, can her hand really be anywhere but on his butt?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 06 Oct 2014, 07:35
I fall into the camp that if Marten was going to say let's just be friends, 1: he wouldn't have called her right away; 2: he wouldn't have accepted Clairemom's invitation for pancakes; and 3: he would be a lot more awkward than he is right now. I fully expect at least an "I like you and am willing to give it a try if you are" from Marten.

And I hardly care if we get a kiss, as long as there is more playing with Claire's hair and snuggling.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 07:40
And I hardly care if we get a kiss, as long as there is more playing with Claire's hair and snuggling.

I, on the other hand, can see a parallel to Marigold walking in on Angus and Faye snuggling on the couch (without the 'staring at the roomie's butt' element). Clinton walks past a snuggling/making out Marten and Claire and, basically, doesn't respond. Into the breakfast nook. "Morning, Mom!" "Morning dear!" First sip of coffee followed by...

SPIT TAKE!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 06 Oct 2014, 07:52
OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.

Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 06 Oct 2014, 07:59
I'm still hoping that they decide to date formally before making any formal decisions vis a long-term relationship. This is mostly because I'm enough of an old romantic that the idea of Martin taking Claire out on the town and treating her like a woman whose happiness he values would be a wonderful thing to see and I think it is something that would do her the greatest good.

I would love a week of them just spending time around town, being adorable.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 08:05

OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.

Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?

But not after 9 and not on Sunday, because of a combo of worker protection laws and religious traditions
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 06 Oct 2014, 08:08

OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.

Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?

But not after 9 and not on Sunday, because of a combo of worker protection laws and religious traditions
Nonono, you got that wrong. The religious tradition is that they aren't allowed to dance on Good Friday.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 08:10
So if someone is walking down the street on Good Friday and gets a tune in their head and starts dancing a little, do they get a fine or something?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 06 Oct 2014, 08:12
This needs Kevin Bacon.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 06 Oct 2014, 08:14

OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.

Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?

But not after 9 and not on Sunday, because of a combo of worker protection laws and religious traditions

Ok, most threads just get derailed.  This one split into two parallel tracks tht have merged back together with this post. 

Firs sighting of a thread siding, y'all. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aquaisces on 06 Oct 2014, 08:25
Also I'm not saying this as a mod because it's not against policy, but holy shit I hate that small text gag so much. Just use a spoiler tag, the joke still works and is much less obnoxious.

Can we make it aginst policy?  Pretty please?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Oct 2014, 08:30
More effective would be to simply force a minimum text size.  There's currently no facility to do this, but I'm already investigating this possibility of creating one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 08:31
Marten may be a cool, collected customer for once in his life (and frankly his extreme zen is starting to damage my own calm), but I can see Claire possibly pulling away and/or freakin' out.  Stupid anxiety.

In re: "Cool, calm, collected Marten", I submit the following: The Talk, Part 10 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509)

Marten was incredibly cool about the whole thing. And, by the way, this was where the comic completely turned.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 06 Oct 2014, 08:48
So if someone is walking down the street on Good Friday and gets a tune in their head and starts dancing a little, do they get a fine or something?

Well, from what I know it's only applicable to events, which also includes clubs, bars, etc. But then you can be fined with up to 1500€. It's probably only given to the person who organised it though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Oct 2014, 08:51
We really need a Questionable Content Kremlinology thread as a home for minute close analysis of art as well as Jeph's Tumblr and Twitter posts for clues as to the future direction of the strip!

Dude, we have one of those literally every single week. We call it the "Weekly Comic Discussion Thread".  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 06 Oct 2014, 09:12
So if someone is walking down the street on Good Friday and gets a tune in their head and starts dancing a little, do they get a fine or something?

Well, from what I know it's only applicable to events, which also includes clubs, bars, etc. But then you can be fined with up to 1500€. It's probably only given to the person who organised it though.
Is that country-wide, or only in some states?  And I must say, gawds, I wouldn't want someone else's religion to *EVER* dictate what I can or cannot do unless it harmed another.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 09:14
Attention: The following Anti Squee Statement has been spoilered for your protection.

Do not look at if you don't want your squee mellow harshed.

You Have Been Warned.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 09:14
Hedgie - Seriously. I can understand the Sunday thing, because even if it's based in religion, it has other reasons for existing (well, not the choice of day, but one day a week where nobody can/has to work). Of course that only makes sense if living wages are standard, which isn't the case in the States.

The Good Friday thing is inexcusable, though.

Tuba - That's not a handshake. Also...who handshakes a friend?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 09:23
Duderino! you spoiled my spoiler!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 09:24

Marten may be a cool, collected customer for once in his life (and frankly his extreme zen is starting to damage my own calm), but I can see Claire possibly pulling away and/or freakin' out.  Stupid anxiety.

In re: "Cool, calm, collected Marten", I submit the following: The Talk, Part 10 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509)

Marten was incredibly cool about the whole thing. And, by the way, this was where the comic completely turned.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=511

Weirdly the next strip features post big moment reheated frozen breakfast food.  THE CONVERGENCE HAS BEGUN.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 06 Oct 2014, 09:25
C'mon people. He went to her house the very next morning. This isn't a just friends thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Oct 2014, 09:30
Marten blivving out (*) is terrifyingly plausible.

(*) Phrase courtesy of Akima.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 09:31
You're not the first person to bring up the handshake angle :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: zioninavision on 06 Oct 2014, 09:35
I am fascinated by the vague yet prominent parallel universe senses between QC and Alice Grove; i am not sure it will be ongoing, but just that it has existed for any amount of time is very awesome.   :-)   
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: zioninavision on 06 Oct 2014, 09:39
All of this has seemingly happened before Marten has met with Emily again   :psyduck: :psyduck:
What will happen?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 09:43
The fact that Marten's shown as much growth as he has, and finally seems to know what he wants (based on the evidence thus far) leaves me waiting for the other shoe to drop, and thinking it's going to be Claire's footwear hitting the floor rather than Marten's. I hasten to add, I'd love to be wrong on this point.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Oct 2014, 09:47
Also...who handshakes a friend?

'Claire, about last night. I think we should just be professional acquaintances'
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 09:50
All of this has seemingly happened before Marten has met with Emily again   :psyduck: :psyduck:
What will happen?

I got the impression that Marten had decided to leave the ball in Emily's court with that one. He'd do the "professional boundaries" thing if and when she made another move.

But, yeah, if he plans to do anything with Claire, he'll have to rewrite the speech or he'll be a blazing hypocrite.

That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 09:50
I can definitely see Claire being cautious (i.e., the question of what they do with one another may not be resolved in the next week or longer), but I don't think she will actively backpedal, either.  The impression I get is that the only reason she didn't apply smooches to Marten the night before is because he was drunk, so I think she's pretty clear on what she wants as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: brew on 06 Oct 2014, 09:59

That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.

She said she liked seeing Marten shirtless.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 10:00
You're not the first person to bring up the handshake angle :roll:

Ah. So noted. I thought I was about to disrupt an uninterrupted chain of squee and I was trying to be cute about it.

'Claire, about last night. I think we should just be professional acquaintances'

Given that they work together, a handshake used this way would be a (probably sadly) memorable way to shift things (away from where I hope this is going). I don't think it's so far-fetched that Jeph would inflict that upon us.  :evil:

That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual?
She said she liked seeing Marten shirtless.

She paid to grab Steve's butt. Edit: Dammit I should read more carefully before I post.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 10:01
Quote
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.

Asexuality is the last problem with Emily. She have some serious mental issues, including a alarming (and potentially dangerous) lack of sense of consequence.

And if she not made a move, I cant see she thinking sex is a boring thing. A relationship otherwise... She can't manage one being so carefree. As she discover fuckbuddies her sex life tend to be much active.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 10:01
She have some serious mental issues, including a alarming (and potentially dangerous) lack of sense of consequence.
Wait, what?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Oct 2014, 10:06
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual?
She said she liked seeing Marten shirtless.

She paid to grab Steve's butt.

No, that was Claire.

Emily was rather flirty with Marten when she was drunk at the lake house, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 10:08
Zebediah: Doh. I should read more carefully. *drinks more coffee*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 06 Oct 2014, 10:23
I'm really scared it's going to be just holding hands for reassurance, and a 'you're great but let's forget about that' type thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 06 Oct 2014, 10:29
The next comic cuts to marten floating about the library all squeeface'd for three panels while Tai looks on in mock horror.
Then the last panel is an emergency ambulance rushing past a street sign for "Elm Street"

The comic title is "Dun dun DUUUNNN"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: st08 on 06 Oct 2014, 10:39
Like others have pointed out, the fact that Marten is being so unbelievably zen and that he accepted Clairemom's invitation to come over for breakfast leads me to believe he is not about to say "let's just be friends." My guess is he'll say something along the lines of indicating that he's open to the possibility of something between them but not wanting to rush/pressure Claire if she needs time to figure out what's best for her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 06 Oct 2014, 10:40
The next three weeks (minimum) the issue is left hanging for us.  Claire and Marten are shown going about their usual business with perfectly normal expressions on their faces.  They interact pretty much as they did prior to this night out.  None of the other characters comment on any changes there as there are other things occupying their minds (the Winslow/Pintsize/Momo/May .mp4 that is suddenly making the rounds, or the return of the Vespavenger).

Only after that will the aftermath be revealed.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 06 Oct 2014, 10:41
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.

Even if she is asexual, asexual is not the same as aromantic. I still don't think she meant anything by it, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 10:43
The next three weeks (minimum) the issue is left hanging for us.
...
Only after that will the aftermath be revealed.


We find out tomorrow that it's not Marten and Claire's hands being shown in that panel...

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BrusselSprouts on 06 Oct 2014, 10:54
Related to Emily, I freaking love the idea of her being asexual.  My best friend is an ace so I'm all about ace representation.  I think her saying she likes Marten without a shirt was more to gross out Sam than anything.

Even if not,  aesthetic attraction is a thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rubick on 06 Oct 2014, 11:02
God, this little story plot has been really well done. Too much squeeing, indeed.

I think most likely, Marten will admit to feelings he has for Claire and will say that if she's nervous or trepidatious, he can give her time until she's ready to make that step. To which Claire will interrupt him mid-sentence with a kiss.

AND THEN WE ALL DIE FROM THE HAPPINESS/  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 06 Oct 2014, 11:03
I'm not sure where people are getting this whole "shaking her hand" think from, or that his hand grasp is in no way an intimate gesture.

If Marten was actually trying to tell her that he wasn't interested, or something of that nature, wouldn't he not want to touch her and physically distance himself? Seems to be the exact opposite of what is happening.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 06 Oct 2014, 11:03
The only reasonable explanation is that Marten wants this to go forward, but wants to talk it over with Claire

If he is doing all of this, smiling like a moron, going to her home, taking her hand etc, he is an oblivious moron. More than he has ever been before. And given the amount of character growth we have seen, I doubt that is what is going on. The best solution is that he wants to talk, but he also wants it to move forward. If he agreed to go home to her, talk to her mom, talk to Claire in her sleeping wear and all this only to shut her down, Marten reed is a moron.

Also, have we discussed what Marten and Clairemom might have talked about before Claire got up? She said that Claire talks about Marten all the time and Martens smile might indicate that Clairemom basically gave her approval or gave marten the confidence he needs to move forward.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Oct 2014, 11:04
I'm not sure the world could take that much squeeing at once. The crust of the earth would crack, and we would be sent into 1000 years of darkness.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 11:06
Quote
I think most likely, Marten will admit to feelings he has for Claire and will say that if she's nervous or trepidatious, he can give her time until she's ready to make that step. To which Claire will interrupt him mid-sentence with a kiss.

If this happens, I will buy you ten of whatever you're drinking/eating.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 06 Oct 2014, 11:10
Also, have we discussed what Marten and Clairemom might have talked about before Claire got up? She said that Claire talks about Marten all the time and Martens smile might indicate that Clairemom basically gave her approval or gave marten the confidence he needs to move forward.

An interesting thought. Maybe we will find out if things go well?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 06 Oct 2014, 11:20
I find myself wondering what Claire's other arm is up to.

This is Questionable Content, can her hand really be anywhere but on his butt?
In strip #2736 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2736), I had a theory that Emily grabbed Marten's butt :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 11:21
Her reach was similar to Delilah's :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 11:27
Quote
In strip #2736, I had a theory that Emily grabbed Marten's butt
I can see booth arms in #2736. If Emily grabbed something that was not the butt.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 11:36
My theory is that Emily didn't actually make skin-to-skin contact with Marten; she just put her lips close to his face and whispered: "Smooch!" That breath across his cheek would have felt weird, which would explain Marten's pole-axed expression. A kiss would have made him react in surprise but not create a processor lock like that!

It just strikes me that Emily would have created her idea of how to kiss from cartoons and comic books. So, saying 'smooch' as an alliterative sound-effect would actually be the right way to do it in her mind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 11:36
I think she kissed him and then said "smooch".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 06 Oct 2014, 11:37
Her reach was similar to Delilah's :roll:
No, Delilah was definitely grabbing something else (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2627).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 11:43
Oh right, she wasn't reaching from the side. Oh well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 06 Oct 2014, 11:46
I'm probably not the first to note this, but in response to a lot of posts about the recurring Pancakes = Happy Romance Times motif, don't forget about this:

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1082

Incidentally, the lead up to this, in which Hanners writes a note to Sven (Comic #1080) is one of my all-time favorite QC strips.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 06 Oct 2014, 11:49
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out.  She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment.  Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 11:50
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out.  She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment.  Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.

In other words, re-using the arrangement that Marten had with Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 11:51
I'm not sure where people are getting this whole "shaking her hand" think from, or that his hand grasp is in no way an intimate gesture.

If you look at a google image search for 'handshake'  (http://tinyurl.com/nrp7wsc)then you might see the same similarities that I do.

Sure...it's still intimate, but two hands by themselves in that orientation serve as sort of a rorschach when isolated. There's a delightful ambiguity.

I'm just saying the situation could go a lot of different ways and Jeph has given us a Monday cliffhanger. (that I'm enjoying!!!)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 06 Oct 2014, 11:56
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out.  She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment.  Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.

In other words, re-using the arrangement that Marten had with Faye.

Not quite, Faye asked Marten not to wait for her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: evilQuälgeist on 06 Oct 2014, 12:07
 :laugh:

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAW  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Euthemes on 06 Oct 2014, 12:12
After this gros plan,  it will be cruel (especially for Claire, let alone... us) if they don't end up k-i-s-s-i-n-g.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 12:13
Re.: The 'handshake'. We'll have to wait and see but my gut feeling was that Marten was taking Claire's hand to lead her over to the couch or something so they could sit and talk. However, I think he knew how nervous she was (because he is too) and he was using that old human instinct of physical contact to offer reassurance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 12:16
Only one thing:
What are the signs of Claire isn't "not ready"? This is a very wild guess because she is trans in my opinion. In our last physical interaction there is only "you are drunk and will regret this" ant I think anyone would freak out a little with this sudden breakfast as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 06 Oct 2014, 12:18
Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.
Since when are you supposed to kiss HARD ?  :?

I didn't mean physically. Buncha literalists around here :P

I meant like kiss and there's an anime-style squee-splosion that drops the roof in a neighboring county. I think it's a fairly simple request.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 06 Oct 2014, 12:22
A boring handshake doesn't deserve a dramatic final panel and an " :o " from Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 12:23
Eh, last thing then Imma shut up 'cause I'm posting too much.  I don't care if they kiss, hug, snuggle or play hopscotch - what I really, really want to see is Claire floating three feet above the ground in exactly the way a brick does not, because she's loved and in love.

I got hopes for Marty too, but my soft spot is for Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 06 Oct 2014, 12:33
Only one thing:
What are the signs of Claire isn't "not ready"? This is a very wild guess because she is trans in my opinion. In our last physical interaction there is only "you are drunk and will regret this" ant I think anyone would freak out a little with this sudden breakfast as well.

The look of utter panic on her face in the penultimate panel, the fact that she told Faye that a relationship would be wrong due to their close working relationship and, from what everyone else says, this would be her first relationship.

The fact that she pointed out that he was drunk means that she can be assertive and level headed.  The fact that she's freaking out now is informative in that regard.

I suspect that she needs time to get used to the idea that someone she likes reciprocates those feelings.

{edited: corrected grammar}
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrClef on 06 Oct 2014, 12:34
My prediction:

Marten clasps Claire's hands together.

Marten: "Look, I'm sorry I was acting like a drunk idiot last night. I took some liberties I shouldn't have, and I know that in our current working situation, it wouldn't be morally proper. But I really think you're an awesome person and I hope that after your internship ends, we can start dating then."

Claire: "That's really reasonable."

Marten: "You were a good influence."

<beat panel>

GIANT KISSES AND MAKEOUTS IMMEDIATELY ENSUE.

Claire <disheveled and grinning>: "Screw being reasonable."

Marten <disheveled and panting>: "Y-yes ma'am!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 12:37
With her mom in the next room?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 12:39
Crack prediction for distant future:

First meeting between Veronica and Mrs A gets awkward (for the children) when it turns out the two worked the same strip club when they were in college together. Mrs A met Clinton and Claire's dad and 'went straight' whilst Veronica's life just got wilder and crazier until she woke up one morning, realised it had been all empty and then emailed Jim that she wanted to meet him face-to-face.

"Vee!"

"Lex!"

"SQUEEEEEE!!!" ((Sis-hugs happen whilst Marten and Claire look on in amazement))
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bryntheskits on 06 Oct 2014, 12:42
More effective would be to simply force a minimum text size.  There's currently no facility to do this, but I'm already investigating this possibility of creating one.

Could always just disable changing the text size (somewhere in the admin area you can disable certain BB codes), but if you didn't want to do that only thing I could think of would be editing the source code itself (just looked through it and it shouldn't be too hard to change). Source code of SMF has some great comments as well :P

(http://i.imgur.com/Sk8GkkO.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 06 Oct 2014, 12:43
My prediction:

Marten clasps Claire's hands together.

Marten: "Look, I'm sorry I was acting like a drunk idiot last night. I took some liberties I shouldn't have, and I know that in our current working situation, it wouldn't be morally proper. But I really think you're an awesome person and I hope that after your internship ends, we can start dating then."

Claire: "That's really reasonable."

Marten: "You were a good influence."

<beat panel>

GIANT KISSES AND MAKEOUTS IMMEDIATELY ENSUE.

Claire <disheveled and grinning>: "Screw being reasonable."

Marten <disheveled and panting>: "Y-yes ma'am!"

I think everyone is secretly/not-so-secretly hoping for this. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrClef on 06 Oct 2014, 12:44
Crack prediction for distant future:

First meeting between Veronica and Mrs A gets awkward (for the children) when it turns out the two worked the same strip club when they were in college together. Mrs A met Clinton and Claire's dad and 'went straight' whilst Veronica's life just got wilder and crazier until she woke up one morning, realised it had been all empty and then emailed Jim that she wanted to meet him face-to-face.

"Vee!"

"Lex!"

"SQUEEEEEE!!!" ((Sis-hugs happen whilst Marten and Claire look on in amazement))

Change Mrs. A's name to "Clarice" and you'd have a callback to this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 12:59
Like others have pointed out, the fact that Marten is being so unbelievably zen and that he accepted Clairemom's invitation to come over for breakfast leads me to believe he is not about to say "let's just be friends." My guess is he'll say something along the lines of indicating that he's open to the possibility of something between them but not wanting to rush/pressure Claire if she needs time to figure out what's best for her.

DING! This is what my money's on.


...If, of course, there were betting lines on webcomics. Which is seriously a bad idea. Don't do it, people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bryntheskits on 06 Oct 2014, 13:00
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383
I miss the messy textured hair look
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 13:01
Me too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 13:02
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out.  She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment.  Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.

In other words, re-using the arrangement that Marten had with Faye.

....I already said that, didn't I?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 13:20
Quote
The look of utter panic on her face in the penultimate panel
Is basically the same in the last three trips. It's a awkward situation. Mom, pyjamas and a unresolved crush. Plus she being introvert and all.
Quote
the fact that she told Faye that a relationship would be wrong due to their close working relationship
Not means "not ready", only means she have restrictions because the professional situation.
Quote
and, from what everyone else says, this would be her first relationship.
Also not means "not ready".

I really can see she saying no, but not for being "not ready" for a relationship.
Sure she have issues to work out, and sure this relationship can not work (They have a really small common ground to stand) at all or even not start (I doubt. There was so many signals this will happen) but, to me, Claire is way, waaaay more capable of holding a relationship than... Marigold.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ysth on 06 Oct 2014, 13:36
The next three weeks (minimum) the issue is left hanging for us.  Claire and Marten are shown going about their usual business with perfectly normal expressions on their faces.  They interact pretty much as they did prior to this night out.  None of the other characters comment on any changes there as there are other things occupying their minds (the Winslow/Pintsize/Momo/May .mp4 that is suddenly making the rounds, or the return of the Vespavenger).

Only after that will the aftermath be revealed.
That would be Awesome.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 06 Oct 2014, 14:36
dear god, no one tell Jeph
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: greywolfe on 06 Oct 2014, 14:39
Hands - every comic artist's nemesis.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 06 Oct 2014, 15:09
I was going to say, "... and horses," but a comic can get by with a poorly drawn horse. All you have to do is say it's a cartoon horse. A badly drawn hand, though, can ruin an otherwise well-done piece of art. Even when the artist doesn't intend, viewers look to a hand to express something.

When I'd watch Jeph's livestream, I'd see him redraw a hand three, four times, almost without fail. You never feel like you've drawn a hand quite right. I do the same thing.

Books on drawing devote whole chapters to hands. Whole books, even.

Hands. rrrgh.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 15:10
I think she kissed him and then said "smooch".

Or it could be like Sven's "Sheen" (sorry, can't find the damn strip). Using a word you wouldn't usually use in a place where you'd usually put, say, a "Poof" or a "Whoosh," for instance.

EDIT: Found it. http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1078 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1078)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 15:20
One of the worst drawn hands that I've seen is in an otherwise beautiful tarot deck - one of the cards has the image on a six-fingered archer on it which somehow evaded the art editorial process.  (For those who care, the deck is the Wildwood Tarot).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CaptainFish on 06 Oct 2014, 15:22
Dang, Marten is skinny.

I can't wait to see Marten and Claire figure things out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 06 Oct 2014, 15:35
A positive thing I was thinking of, harking back to the discussion from a little while ago about Claire's feelings towards Marten's o.n.s with Delilah, is that she has seen him open and vulnerable about relationships now.

Some folks seemed to think that seeing him post-Dee was a bad thing but what it actually could have been was a vehicle for Claire to see that he wants something real and honest and true. For someone like Claire, who is inexperienced and pretty shy about affaires de coeur, it might have been what she needed to see that, when Marten is reaching out to her emotionally now, he means it and truly wants her, not just someone to fill the void, you know?

Hopefully this post was a bit less pessimistic than my first one  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 15:38
I think she kissed him and then said "smooch".

Or it could be like Sven's "Sheen" (sorry, can't find the damn strip). Using a word you wouldn't usually use in a place where you'd usually put, say, a "Poof" or a "Whoosh," for instance.

EDIT: Found it. http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1078 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1078)
Except that was clearly a sound effect, while "smooch" was in a speech bubble :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 15:38
"One of the worst drawn hands..."  I meant to preface that with "Yes, hands are really tough."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 16:06
Except Marten said with all letters, "kissed me", not "made some strange thing".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 06 Oct 2014, 16:20
Why can't tomorrow just come and save us from all this supposition?

I can't remember the last time I was looking forward to another edition of any comic, ever. I just hope to god it's a Steve eating cereal one because if it isn't I am going to throw the toys out of the pram.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 06 Oct 2014, 16:33
I'm not sure where people are getting this whole "shaking her hand" think from, or that his hand grasp is in no way an intimate gesture.

If you look at a google image search for 'handshake'  (http://tinyurl.com/nrp7wsc)then you might see the same similarities that I do.

Sure...it's still intimate, but two hands by themselves in that orientation serve as sort of a rorschach when isolated. There's a delightful ambiguity.

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1944wwe4w6oznjpg/original.jpg)

A reasonable assessment all told however you could argue the angle is terrible for a handshake for one, but two and far more important we have an EXCELLENT reason to assume he is not shaking her hand. Because that makes NO SENSE whatsoever in ANY social context vaguely like the one they're currently in. A handshake at the end of the conversation? Maybe though I would see that as incredibly awkward, but a nervous night after "X" (X being romantic something or another between two previously single individuals) occurring conversation when one party is far more calm than the other, the social cue of the day is NOT a handshake. Especially between socially well adjusted individuals with a previously established close relationship. However, holding their hand in a reassuring manner, no matter what follows conversationally makes much more sense. So if we follow standard North American social behavior (and both Claire and Martenfriend are pretty socially well adjusted) and Occam's Razor Marten is not going for a handshake.

(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080902204435/aceattorney/images/3/3e/Takethat.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 16:40
Well I guess I just got told.

Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 06 Oct 2014, 16:42
Well I guess I just got told.

Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
I'm not surprised something like that exists, but still, what even.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: downtowneddie on 06 Oct 2014, 16:46
I'm not in the handshake camp. (Oh, hi, new person here. Longtime reader of Q.C., new to join this forum.) Basic contextual clues would lead us to believe Marten is reaching out to hold Claire's hand, not to shake it. Nicely said, GarandMarine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zwammy on 06 Oct 2014, 16:59
Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).

That is hilarious.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 06 Oct 2014, 17:06
Well I guess I just got told.

Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
I'm not surprised something like that exists, but still, what even.
Sorry.  That specimen escaped from the lab and started breeding.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 17:07
Well I guess I just got told.

Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
I'm not surprised something like that exists, but still, what even.

I got it from Jeph's twitter feed:
[tweet]518828372424921088[/tweet]

At first I wasn't sure why I posted it but upon reflection I guess it's my way of saying that making sense in a given social context may not be Jeph's first priority in storytelling... And I like his stuff because of that, not in spite of it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 06 Oct 2014, 18:05
Simple reason it isn't a handshake: Martens fingers are curled. That's a gentle caress not a flat-palmed handshake.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 18:16
That is what we call "taking a girl gently by the hand."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 18:40

Well I guess I just got told.

Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).

Congrats, you've broken me, I can't stop giggling
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 18:41
Comic's nearly up (blank space at the moment).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 06 Oct 2014, 18:42
COMICS(!) ARE UP.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 06 Oct 2014, 18:43
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! *squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: epmin on 06 Oct 2014, 18:43
Queue epic squeeing from now until the planet implodes.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 18:44
TODAYS COMIC IS BLANK SPACE NOOOOOO
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 18:44
Perfect answers :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 06 Oct 2014, 18:44
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh
Omgomgomg!!!!
squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 18:46
This makes me irrationally happy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: downtowneddie on 06 Oct 2014, 18:46
One word, followed by one caveat: YAY!

I have never (ever!) become so invested in the plot line of any work of fiction before. Thank you, Jeph, for creating Q.C. and drawing us all in like Marten, Claire, Faye, and everyone there are our best friends.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 18:46
Ok then.

Only five seven red text replies. You guys are slipping.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 06 Oct 2014, 18:46
S.S. ClaireMarten, now leaving port, hauling over 9000 tons of squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aliensporebomb on 06 Oct 2014, 18:46
Did the site just break?  Current comic refuses to load!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AJ_ on 06 Oct 2014, 18:47
There are two comics!
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aquaisces on 06 Oct 2014, 18:48
The comic isn't loading, but there's lots of squee happening!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 18:49
Did the site just break?  Current comic refuses to load!

I'd guess that with a ton of us all hitting F5 repeatedly and more or less simultaneously, it took a bit to iron out. Stick with it. It'll load.

Unrelated thing, I'm loving the progression of Claire's face in this comic. Especially that last frame...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Oct 2014, 18:49
I'm getting future comic but not todays comic. I think I had a kiss spoiled :o

Edit: There it is!

(click to show/hide)
Title: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 18:49
Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


I don't think I can handle this much


Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It's all been worth it!!!

Eeeeeeeeee!


Edit: I CANT DECIDE WHICH FRAME TO MAKE MY PHONE BACKGROUND IM SUPER VEXED
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 06 Oct 2014, 18:49
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0d55f965089318e89f6e4eeb135660a/tumblr_mryooxWFcK1qm34qno1_400.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Oct 2014, 18:50
If it's not loading for you, click "Previous" and then "Next".

Or just click here:  http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 18:51
This makes me irrationally happy.

I'm feeling that too - but there is nothing irrational about it.  In a world (our world) that is seeming to fall ever more deeply into division and horror, Jeph is offering us a vision of honest, inclusive love between two people - or at least, the potential for that kind of love.  I've been coming to this strip for a dose of hopefulness for many weeks now, never more so than today :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cypher on 06 Oct 2014, 18:51
Long-time reader, hopeful follower of recent developments.

...

Yessssssssssss (End of Hanners impression)

Seriously though- I'm not only happy with this positive happening, but with what seems to be Marten's considerable recent character development. No sign of his usual wishy-washiness here!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nyzer on 06 Oct 2014, 18:52
For those of you who can't see the comic yet: http://imgur.com/J6XI0NE

Apparently the next comic in line has also been uploaded, but I figure that one can wait.

Or just click here: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807

I tried that, it didn't work at first. Rewriting it to 2808 let me see the comic from the future though. >_>
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 18:52
Cache servers. Different cache servers.

Also...

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

And I even missed the second comic (2808) at first.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 06 Oct 2014, 18:53
I believe we are approaching peak squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Oct 2014, 18:54
ahem.. WOOOO! YESSSS! *happy dance*

I think Orkboy said it best, really.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 18:54
I sense a disturbance in the force... like millions upon millions of webcomic readers suddenly squeeed at once...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 18:55
A+ indeed.  Thanks, Jeph, for doing it better than I coulda hoped.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 18:56
This makes me irrationally happy.

I'm feeling that too - but there is nothing irrational about it.  In a world (our world) that is seeming to fall ever more deeply into division and horror, Jeph is offering us a vision of honest, inclusive love between two people - or at least, the potential for that kind of love.  I've been coming to this strip for a dose of hopefulness for many weeks now, never more so than today :-)

Couldn't have happened to two nicer people.

For those of you who can't see the comic yet: http://imgur.com/J6XI0NE

Apparently the next comic in line has also been uploaded, but I figure that one can wait.

Or just click here: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807

I tried that, it didn't work at first. Rewriting it to 2808 let me see the comic from the future though. >_>

I actually got 2808 first (didn't realize I'd missed 2807). Made me think the kiss took place off-frame. Works either way, and the end result -- thankfully -- is the same.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: justonequestion on 06 Oct 2014, 18:57
Redacted on account of my own ignorance.

Sorry guys.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HeavyP on 06 Oct 2014, 18:57
I think I just woke up every other unit in my apartment complex with my "FUCK YES!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: justonequestion on 06 Oct 2014, 18:59
Also, what do you guys make of the title: "Nose Grows Some." Is this a Pinocchio reference? Is Marten lying?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 06 Oct 2014, 19:00
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0d55f965089318e89f6e4eeb135660a/tumblr_mryooxWFcK1qm34qno1_400.gif)

THIS ALL OF THIS SO MUCH OF THIS.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 19:00
Oh, and she does, indeed, have lips. :)  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:00
I don't know. Thoughts?
Global Moderator Comment This is not something we discuss here
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 19:00
Okay, so, I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but this is literally the only reason I've come to the forums.

I'll preface by saying I'm pleased with the recent developments.

I'll conclude by asking if we now where Claire is in her transition process. As far as I'm aware we just know that she's been taking the hormones. This confuses me, because though it's cool that Marten is cool with her status, a major aspect of Marten's relationships have been sexual. So, either Claire has had her operation and I missed it or Marten is not as straight as I thought, or he's just cool with being cuddle buddies in the meantime.

I don't know. Thoughts?

Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:02
Also, what do you guys make of the title: "Nose Grows Some." Is this a Pinocchio reference? Is Marten lying?

I'm looking intently at Claire's nose. Does it grow larger by the last panel?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:02
Thank you for that, Azira.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Saabstory88 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:02
I, I have no words... what a ride this comic has been
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 06 Oct 2014, 19:03
Ok, I might be silly here- has Jeph ever posted two pages at once before?

Plus, Squee.

Plus, great writing!!

Plus, SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 19:03
I actually think it's intentional, given that the homepage goes to 2807, yet next actually works and goes to 2808. And, I don't think he's ever done that before.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nyithra on 06 Oct 2014, 19:05
Oh my god. It happened. I can die happy now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 19:05
Also, pyjamas on front door.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Oct 2014, 19:05
There's only one question left.

Does he love her enough to laugh at her puns?  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 19:06
Also, this may be the first time it's ever felt natural for Marten to get involved with someone, come to think of it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: justonequestion on 06 Oct 2014, 19:06
My apparently ignorant comment. :/

Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.

Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Estron on 06 Oct 2014, 19:07
Oh, and she does, indeed, have lips. :)  :claireface:

At least in profile.   :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: st08 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:08
Also, what do you guys make of the title: "Nose Grows Some." Is this a Pinocchio reference? Is Marten lying?

It is the title of a song from Thom Yorke's recent album "Tomorrow's Modern Boxes" that came out like a week ago.

Also, SQUEEEEE
Title: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 19:08
The titles are a bit odd, nose grows some and hatch the plan? Odd.

I too squinted to see if Claire's nose changed size lol
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:09
Ok, I might be silly here- has Jeph ever posted two pages at once before?

He once posted a six panel comic (this one: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=564) because he "Didn't want to drag this one out over the weekend."

And that was before he changed the comic layout to incorporate more than four panels.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:10
Woah. To be completely honest, I didn't expect that, especially not so quickly. But it happened! Marten confessed his feelings! They kissed! And Claire didn't freak out! Holy crap!!!

(http://myrdin.co/uploads/it's%20happening.gif)

Additionally, does anybody know if the next one is Wednesday's comic or if it's a double comic Tuesday?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Oct 2014, 19:10
Yay! I was wrong!

squeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 19:11
Well, 2808 gone down.

EDIT
No, not reachable by interface, but the direct link stills working.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Estron on 06 Oct 2014, 19:11
Wow.  How satisfying.  I actually felt happy just to be viewing two comic strips on my computer. 

And it was my strategy to read the comments section until the new posts started in with the OMGs, the DAWWWs, and of course, the SQUEEs.

Finally,

Thank you, Jeph!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 19:13
My apparently ignorant comment. :/

Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.

Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.

What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 19:13
The link to tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has been removed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smashwidget on 06 Oct 2014, 19:13
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0d55f965089318e89f6e4eeb135660a/tumblr_mryooxWFcK1qm34qno1_400.gif)

THIS ALL OF THIS SO MUCH OF THIS.
/AGREE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 19:15
Well, 2808 gone down.

EDIT
No, not reachable by interface, but the direct link stills working.
Not quite. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/2808.png)
I just tried and it worked.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:16
That it did.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 06 Oct 2014, 19:19
Ladies and Gentlemen, I admit it freely - I called it wrong - Jeph did not string us along.


Questions, comments, queries , problems, bitches, rude gestures and/or remarks
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 06 Oct 2014, 19:21
OH MY... I DON'T...

AUGHUGHGUHGUHGUAHGH

I don't think I'll be able to sleep now. My mind, she is blown.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 06 Oct 2014, 19:21
There's only one question left.

Does he love her enough to laugh at her puns?  :claireface:

All relationships have at least one thing those involved will never agree on.  Claire's sense of humour is most likely that thing in their relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:21
So in other words, Marten is wrong.

I hope this double tonight doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:22
Next week:  Padma returns and a love triangle is formed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 06 Oct 2014, 19:23
Also, this is Claires first kiss right?

That's one hell of a good first kiss.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Oct 2014, 19:23
So in other words, Marten is wrong.

I hope this doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.

Oh, we will. Just some of us have seen it already.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 19:23
First question.
This double release, most probably was a easter egg or a human failure?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 06 Oct 2014, 19:24
Define 'failure,' human.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Case on 06 Oct 2014, 19:25
Frail male Reed(s) FTW!
Also sqee and suchlike ... :-D

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:27
So in other words, Marten is wrong.

I hope this doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.

Oh, we will. Just some of us have seen it already.
That's what I meant, I was hoping the second tonight wasn't tomorrow's, but I guess it was.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 06 Oct 2014, 19:28
Cue the Clintorpedo.

Only 6?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Weeshery on 06 Oct 2014, 19:28
Long time lurker, first time poster... SQUEEEEEEEE!

First question.
This double release, most probably was a easter egg or a human failure?

Neither. It was Pintsize trolling Jeph. Not that we're complaining... :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 06 Oct 2014, 19:28
Hnnnnnnng... Our feels can't repel squeeness of that magnitude!

Bravo I say. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 19:29
Failure:  Jeph published by accident.
Easter egg: Jeph is being generous to the feed subscribers and forum members who will have the delight of knowing the tomorrow strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ysth on 06 Oct 2014, 19:30
Hose Goes Some Crow's Rose (supplying the words missing from the title)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PLGRN8R on 06 Oct 2014, 19:30
*ahem*

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

And all other forms of exclaimed agreement. Thank you for listening. I go once more to the shadows of Lurkerdom.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:31
Next week:  Padma returns and a love triangle is formed.

Well, no, it'd be a love lambda.

            Λ

A lambda of love.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 06 Oct 2014, 19:32
Also, this is Claires first kiss right?

That's one hell of a good first kiss.

Insert Princess Bride quote here.

Also, this quote from the one and only Bill Watterson, which I think hold especially true given what's I've seen in the forum since I joined a week or two ago: "A comic strip takes just a few seconds to read, but over the years it creates a surprisingly deep connection with readers... Even in a few panels you can develop characters and express an outlook on life as the months go by and before you know it, readers are seriously invested in the world you've created... Readers do form an emotional bond with your strip."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 06 Oct 2014, 19:32
So in other words, Marten is wrong.

I hope this doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.

Oh, we will. Just some of us have seen it already.
That's what I meant, I was hoping the second tonight wasn't tomorrow's, but I guess it was.

Just registered to post this, it happened once before when sven said he loved faye a while back when he miss posted by a day, it started with him talking to steve but then switched back to him saying I love you to faye. Sadly the next day it was the steve/sven comic again. So more likely than not no "new" comic for wednesday
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 19:34
I'm waiting when the "professional relationship" will kick. Probably when Marten go back home and Faye asks if he banged Claire yesterday.
[Edit: I sure I was deleted the Tai circumstance. Trolled by my brain.]
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 19:34
My apparently ignorant comment. :/

Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.

Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.

What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100  :claireface:

I'd rather not speculate on Pintsize (I don't think we ever established where he got the Fleshlight). Momo and May's robo bits are already canon, if memory serves.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 06 Oct 2014, 19:35
Also, this is Claires first kiss right?

That's one hell of a good first kiss.

Insert Princess Bride quote here.

Also, this quote from the one and only Bill Watterson, which I think hold especially true given what's I've seen in the forum since I joined a week or two ago: "A comic strip takes just a few seconds to read, but over the years it creates a surprisingly deep connection with readers... Even in a few panels you can develop characters and express an outlook on life as the months go by and before you know it, readers are seriously invested in the world you've created... Readers do form an emotional bond with your strip."

This is even more true for me, since Claire coming out as trans gave me the courage to do the same >_>
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheCollector on 06 Oct 2014, 19:35
My mouth is stuck in a permanent position of wide mouthed joy since reading today's comic. I am beyond happy. :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 19:37
Cue the Clintorpedo.
Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Weeshery on 06 Oct 2014, 19:38
For some reason I don't see the professional issue playing a role. If it does I think it will be more of an issue with Emily and maybe Tai. I don't know why but I don't see it being an issue. The only way I thought something would happen regarding that would've been with Marten or Claire but that hasn't happened so...yay!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 19:39
First question.
This double release, most probably was a easter egg or a human failure?

Human error, probably. Not the first time it's happened. Jeph did mention trying to build a buffer.

I'm waiting when the "professional relationship" will kick. Probably when Marten tell to Tai go back home and Faye asks if he banged Claire yesterday.

Faye will likely be happy for him, and I suspect Tai will be as well (though I'd be surprised if Tai doesn't call him out -- probably with tongue firmly in cheek -- about the whole professional relationship thing).

Failure:  Jeph published by accident.
Easter egg: Jeph is being generous to the feed subscribers and forum members who will have the delight of knowing the tomorrow strip.

C: some kind of bizarre meta-trolling by Jeph, since now some of us have to wait two days for the next strip. :D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Oct 2014, 19:39
Cue the Clintorpedo.
Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\

Clairemom will tell him to "stuff it, that Marten boy is a nice one."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 06 Oct 2014, 19:41
Did anyone else catch Comic 2808 getting posted on accident?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 06 Oct 2014, 19:41
Cue the Clintorpedo.
Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\

Clairemom will tell him to "stuff it, that Marten boy is a nice one."
To be honest, I'm not sure we will be seeing Clinton. I just wanted to make the nautical reference...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Weeshery on 06 Oct 2014, 19:42
Cue the Clintorpedo.
Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\

Clairemom will tell him to "stuff it, that Marten boy is a nice one."

This needs to happen. Clairemom has to just suddenly appear and pull Clinton away from Marten and Claire by his ear while scolding him and telling him how nice Marten is. XD
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mystere9 on 06 Oct 2014, 19:42
squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:43
Did anyone else catch Comic 2808 getting posted on accident?
I'm guessing you didn't read the thread before posting? ::)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 06 Oct 2014, 19:44
#2808 is still up for me, and despite not being The Kiss(tm) might actually be more squeetastic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 06 Oct 2014, 19:45
Did anyone else catch Comic 2808 getting posted on accident?
I'm guessing you didn't read the thread before posting? ::)

Sorry, but there's only so many SQUEEEEEES I can wade through before reading the entire thread starts to feel redundant.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 06 Oct 2014, 19:45
I'm still not happy about this.  Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic. 

A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status).  In strip time, it was only yesterday!  Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat. 

I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person.  Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this.  There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 19:47
Tai will give him crap, I'm sure of it, but purely in a friendly sense.

Both Marten and Claire having expressed concerns about the professional issues, though, may cause one or both of them to do something to remove the professional issues. As Marten said in 2808 (in a completely different context, sure, but...):
(click to show/hide)

Someone previously suggested that maybe Marten would leave the library, to resolve it, and also try to advance his career...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 19:48
#2808 is still up for me
It's there, but hitting Next from 2807 won't bring you there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aliensporebomb on 06 Oct 2014, 19:49
eschaton has a point.....

But then again, I kept expecting jeph to pull the rug out by having claire wake from a dream all blushing and whatnot going "oh.... it was all just a dream......"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mojo on 06 Oct 2014, 19:49
Man, I find myself wishing I could make that speech.  What Marten did there is not something easy to do for most mortals.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Weeshery on 06 Oct 2014, 19:51
Tai will give him crap, I'm sure of it, but purely in a friendly sense.

I completely agree with this. I can also see pretty much all of his other friends doing the same. The only one I can't see doing this would be Emily. She'd be happy for them (even if she did like Marten and it wasn't her just being her oddball self in prior comics) it just seems like the type of person she was. Even if it saddened her, she'd appear happy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 19:51
#2808 is still up for me, and despite not being The Kiss(tm) might actually be more squeetastic.

2808 is/was/will have been/whilom haven been pitch-perfect. Am I the only one who tried to see if 2809 was there too?

I'm still not happy about this.  Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic. 

A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status).  In strip time, it was only yesterday!  Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat. 

I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person.  Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this.  There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense. 

If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 19:52
Cue the Clintorpedo.

Only 6?
For a moment I missed the "n"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 06 Oct 2014, 19:55
This is even more true for me, since Claire coming out as trans gave me the courage to do the same >_>

I had to reply to this, and I'm amazed nobody else has done so. First of all, super congrats! Coming out is so dang hard, and I hope that artists like Jeph understand exactly how much their art can mean to their viewers. Doubly so when one thinks about trans folk and how few positive representations we have in the media-sometimes just the tiniest bit of encouragement can be exhilarating. For me, the *click* moment came when I found out that a former coworker was trans, and I thank my lucky stars every day that I had her to show me that it's possible to transition and be perfectly normal. So to you I say, good luck, and keep rockin' on!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 19:56
I'm still not happy about this.  Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic. 

A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status).  In strip time, it was only yesterday!  Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat. 

I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person.  Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this.  There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.

Random robot. Robots are replacing humans one by one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 06 Oct 2014, 19:56
*Jaw drops*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 06 Oct 2014, 19:57
Wow. Just wow. I have only applause. We know not what rocks lie beneath the surf, but there it sails: the ship is afloat. And how!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 19:58
My apparently ignorant comment. :/

Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.

Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.

What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100  :claireface:

I'd rather not speculate on Pintsize (I don't think we ever established where he got the Fleshlight). Momo and May's robo bits are already canon, if memory serves.
It was a nerdy joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 20:00
eschaton has a point.....

But then again, I kept expecting jeph to pull the rug out by having claire wake from a dream all blushing and whatnot going "oh.... it was all just a dream......"
It would be funny if it actually happened just like that and them Marten does show up in her home and does declare for her. But it was all in a clumzy shy marten way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 20:00
My apparently ignorant comment. :/

Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.

Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.

What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100  :claireface:

I'd rather not speculate on Pintsize (I don't think we ever established where he got the Fleshlight). Momo and May's robo bits are already canon, if memory serves.
It was a nerdy joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit

That would explain the breeze I felt on my scalp...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Truec on 06 Oct 2014, 20:01
Ahem.

Squee.

That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 06 Oct 2014, 20:01
I'm still not happy about this.  Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic. 

A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status).  In strip time, it was only yesterday!  Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat. 

I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person.  Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this.  There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.

So what you're saying is: he's acting too formulaic and not like his true self?

I'll admit it did seem like he was a bit off, but I couldn't quite point out what it is.  I don't think he's an entirely different person though, Marten's always been just Marten to me.  I do have to wonder where his attraction to Claire ever started, though, because it wasn't particularly hinted to at all until this point (which is maybe what Jeph wanted?)  There was the wedding arc, but after they both brushed it off the way they did, I honestly thought it was going nowhere.  Guess I was wrong.

Man, I find myself wishing I could make that speech.  What Marten did there is not something easy to do for most mortals.
Speaking form experience, I've found it much easier to ask somebody out (or make any sort of romantic or sexual move on them) when you have a pretty good feeling they'll reciprocate positively.  When you're largely unsure, as Angus was with Faye, then it's still worth it, you just have to work up a lot more courage.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 06 Oct 2014, 20:04
Or use courage of the liquid form.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 06 Oct 2014, 20:05
I do have to wonder where his attraction to Claire ever started, though, because it wasn't particularly hinted to at all until this point (which is maybe what Jeph wanted?)
I suspect even Marten wasn't fully aware of it as it was brewing
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElsaStegosaurus on 06 Oct 2014, 20:05
That was one hell of a handshake.

Also: YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 20:06
Also, Marten's one to constantly second-guess his relationships with women, and whether they're attracted to him, to the point of coming up with the Second Law of Sexual Dynamics. Plus, he had several rationalizations that let him put any relationship with Claire aside.

But, the tension was always there, and had been there since at least the wedding on Marten's part, and probably the lake party on Claire's part. Add in some alcohol, and Marten begins to realize that he likes spending time with Claire, and finds it more natural than he's ever felt before, because they trust each other and feel comfortable in each other's presence - which, to be honest, is probably something that Marten's never quite had.

Vicky felt the need to bail across the country from him.

The entire gag for the first 500 strips of the comic was about how Faye was physically abusive to him, and didn't trust him with her history.

Dora didn't give him a chance to recover from that, and shocked him into a relationship with her. And, while he genuinely did like her... she didn't trust him, ultimately.

Padma... he was never comfortable with Padma, and there was an expiration date on that relationship.

Delilah, well, that was a one night stand, so...

Claire? She trusts him, he trusts her, they're comfortable around each other, and in a moment of vulnerability for both of them (Marten being drunk, Claire having been forced to think about it by Faye), they connect. Claire realizes that she's been attracted to Marten all along, Marten realizes that he's liked Claire all along, and then the next morning...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 20:07
About "Marten" changes:
He is slow, but when comes to a decision stick to it. This is something repeated in recent past and said first by Dora when they are boyfriends, if my memory isn't srewd up. The Claire story was being cooked from a very long time, since the revelation and before. It was something we all see coming, soo, he isn't all out of character. It's not "some random guy".

But
He is not being insecure, (hey, not hand on neck) not asking for advice, etc. We can use the argument of the long cooking, but it's true, he is a little out of character.

But
This is the most sane relationship he face in all this years. Faye always had a trainwreck of issues and Dora/Marten/Faye was a very weird triangle since forever. (I really not remember how was Padma. What number was?) There was reason to he know Claire will be say yes and the other things are far more workable than Faye and Dora. So he have reasons to be out of character.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BrusselSprouts on 06 Oct 2014, 20:07
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/279/2/6/img_20141006_194038_by_legendofzeldafreak2-d81w4sy.jpg)

My residence is going to be treated to this for the next little while. Sorry for the crappy drawing my hands are literally shaking
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 06 Oct 2014, 20:11
Oh, man...

My face is all wet, now. 

Dammit. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 06 Oct 2014, 20:12
Padma... he was never comfortable with Padma

What makes you say that?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 06 Oct 2014, 20:13
Well I can go to bed happy, I don't care if the rest of the year is idle breakfast eating strips, I've been waiting on bated breath for this since Claire started trying on dresses for the wedding.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 06 Oct 2014, 20:14
[picture]

My residence is going to be treated to this for the next little while. Sorry for the crappy drawing my hands are literally shaking
You didn't happen to have that prepared beforehand, did you?   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 06 Oct 2014, 20:15
Jeph Jacques.

You.

Magnificent.

Bastard.

Now I will have to find a redhead as cute as Claire. I was soooo happy being a single guy and you had to ruin it.

Well played, sir, well played.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheCollector on 06 Oct 2014, 20:16
Gotta say, as my 20 minute lasting wide mouthed joy showed, I am beyond happy over what happened in today's comic, especially after how worried I was getting after yesterday's hand hold. I was beyond worried he was gonna say some, we can't cause we work together bull. But this, this is beyond magnificent, I love this turnout. :)

Secondly to say is, I think my experience with Claire is a good example for how it's possible to fall in love with someone, even a fictional character without realizing it. I wasn't sure how I felt about Claire as a character for a long time, I liked her, but I dunno, then this story arc started and how worked up I've been getting over all of this made me realize how much I've loved Claire the whole time. Now she's my favorite character, so.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Hounddog on 06 Oct 2014, 20:16
SO

I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808

Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.

It's pretty adorable though.  Can you hold out?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 20:21
SO

I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808

Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.

It's pretty adorable though.  Can you hold out?
Slow
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Poke
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheCollector on 06 Oct 2014, 20:23
SO

I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808

Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.

It's pretty adorable though.  Can you hold out?
Slow
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Poke

(http://bogleech.com/pokemon/slowpoke.png)   :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 06 Oct 2014, 20:24
If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.

One could argue it's bad writing if you have a sudden divergence in a plot, with the explanation that important developments happened off page. 

It also just doesn't make sense considering Marten shares drama on the littlest things, like Emily kissing him on the cheek, with multiple friends. 

So what you're saying is: he's acting too formulaic and not like his true self?

Yeah.  Honestly it feels like fanservice to me.  Jeph knew it would be popular, so he decided to do it (probably around 3-4 weeks ago).  To the extent there was any foreshadowing, it was just so minor compared to what Jeph set up regarding Faye and Dora. 

I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning.  This is just so disappointing to me.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently. 

Claire? She trusts him, he trusts her, they're comfortable around each other, and in a moment of vulnerability for both of them (Marten being drunk, Claire having been forced to think about it by Faye), they connect. Claire realizes that she's been attracted to Marten all along, Marten realizes that he's liked Claire all along, and then the next morning... (And, the tension has probably been there on Claire's part since the lake party, and Marten's part since the wedding, I think.)

As I said, there's plenty of reason for it to happen, I just don't like how it happened.  Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 strips, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something.  There should have been some hand-wringing involved.  Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 20:24
(http://bogleech.com/pokemon/slowpoke.png)   :claireface:
Feye's head looked too much as monster poop.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BrusselSprouts on 06 Oct 2014, 20:26
Quote
You didn't happen to have that prepared beforehand, did you?   :mrgreen:

If I had something prepared I'd have drawn it way better than that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 20:27
(http://i62.tinypic.com/212gumg.jpg)

What will Emily do with all the straw and twigs she have been gathering all week?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 20:29
Quote
Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 slides, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something.  There should have been some hand-wringing involved.  Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.
He can't do this without outing Claire or just faking half of the drama.
And besides, the thing happened naturally. There was no conscientious plot to freak him out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Oct 2014, 20:29
SO

I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808)

Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.

It's pretty adorable though.  Can you hold out?
Slow
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Poke

(http://bogleech.com/pokemon/slowpoke.png)   :claireface:
Slow...bros...bros...bros... :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 06 Oct 2014, 20:31
I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning.  This is just so disappointing to me.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently. 
Time to mutter about quantum mood states and the observer effect.

EDIT: Wow. Nothing's going to top Method of Madness right there. We've done it. This thread has reached its apex. See you all next week!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jazzmaster on 06 Oct 2014, 20:32

Yeah.  Honestly it feels like fanservice to me.  Jeph knew it would be popular, so he decided to do it (probably around 3-4 weeks ago).  To the extent there was any foreshadowing, it was just so minor compared to what Jeph set up regarding Faye and Dora. 

I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning.  This is just so disappointing to me.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently.

You and I are in the same boat, then.  The amount of people who were apparently not only happy about this new couple, but were eagerly waiting upon it for several months, really took me off guard.

I don't disagree that if he'd kinda fumbled around a bit but then went for it, it would've seemed far more natural.  But like I said, when you kinda of just know somebody digs you (and you're a bit drunk...) it can be easier to make moves like this.  It's not really hard to see why he didn't act this way with Faye way back in the beginning, because she was sending him all sorts of mixed signals from the start.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 20:37
Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 strips, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something.  There should have been some hand-wringing involved.  Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.

Hmm, I see your point but... there's always a 'but', isn't there?  To me, that description seems more like a set of character quirks, rather than a depiction of actual character.  I'm reading this arc as signifying some real growth on Marten's part - which isn't to say that the lovable/infuriating behaviours have gone for good, but that he may now have some measure of control over them.  A character becoming more than he or she has been in the past, in response to new challenges, seems acceptable.  To me at least - everyone is welcome to their own opinion on this :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Oct 2014, 20:40
And, Marten sticks to a course of action once he decides on it. If he decided on it, why bother Faye, Steve, or Tai, and also end up outing Claire, something she specifically requested he not do unless directly asked about it? He had nobody to talk to about it except Clinton, and let's face it, Marten's not gonna ask Clinton about that. (He didn't know about Emily knowing, and let's face it, Marigold or Pintsize would be a better source of relationship advice than Emily. Or even Clinton would be a better source, although not about that particular relationship.)

Also, as far as not feeling comfortable with Padma... he (and Padma, for that matter) were having an "oh shit, this is bad" reaction to them falling for one another, that ultimately resulted in them shutting each other out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 06 Oct 2014, 20:44
He can't do this without outing Claire or just faking half of the drama.
And besides, the thing happened naturally. There was no conscientious plot to freak him out.

There's still the coworker/technical supervisor thing.  Along with her never having been in a relationship (which would be my major concern if I were Marten, honestly - there's so much pressure on you if you're the first).  Admittedly, it would be hard to explain why an attractive 24-year old woman hadn't been in a relationship before to his friends, but I think he could broach it with out outing her. 

You and I are in the same boat, then.  The amount of people who were apparently not only happy about this new couple, but were eagerly waiting upon it for several months, really took me off guard.

I'll admit, I'm not a fanfic kind of guy.  I find characters interesting on an intellectual level, but never find myself identifying with them, having feelings for them, or otherwise being involved.  So this whole fandom thing just seems alien to me personally speaking. 

Hmm, I see your point but... there's always a 'but', isn't there?  To me, that description seems more like a set of character quirks, rather than a depiction of actual character.  I'm reading this arc as signifying some real growth on Marten's part - which isn't to say that the lovable/infuriating behaviours have gone for good, but that he may now have some measure of control over them.  A character becoming more than he or she has been in the past, in response to new challenges, seems acceptable.  To me at least - everyone is welcome to their own opinion on this :-)

It's possible.  But again, how many days ago in comic time was the Emily Kiss arc?  Maybe 2 weeks?  Possibly less?  Seems like a hell of a lot of growth in a short period of time, given the response was pretty much "classic Marten."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 06 Oct 2014, 20:45
And, Marten sticks to a course of action once he decides on it. If he decided on it, why bother Faye, Steve, or Tai, and also end up outing Claire, something she specifically requested he not do unless directly asked about it? He had nobody to talk to about it except Clinton, and let's face it, Marten's not gonna ask Clinton about that. (He didn't know about Emily knowing, and let's face it, Marigold or Pintsize would be a better source of relationship advice than Emily. Or even Clinton would be a better source, although not about that particular relationship.)

Also, as far as not feeling comfortable with Padma... he (and Padma, for that matter) were having an "oh shit, this is bad" reaction to them falling for one another, that ultimately resulted in them shutting each other out.
Don't rule out the Emily-as-confidante possibility yet. She has a way of being that embraces and seems to embody going with the flow. Might possibly give the best advice if she's caught in the right mood.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 06 Oct 2014, 20:46
SO

I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808

Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.

It's pretty adorable though.  Can you hold out?

You bastard. 


Well, anyway, I think that explains Marten's lack of overanalyzing pretty damn well. 





God, I haven't wept tears of joy in a long time.  Damn you, Willis Jeph! 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 06 Oct 2014, 20:48
A+
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 06 Oct 2014, 20:57
After cleaning all the squee off my clothes, I'll  just say one thing.

You can't say Jeph is letting QC coast while starting up his new comic.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 20:59
It is a very hard thing develop a character. You will need make it change, but stay the same. There is a Hard Line of Plausibility you never should pass, and the damn line is a moving target.
Marten/Claire wasn't a masterpiece, but we are expecting it to be?
And if not a masterpiece, Marten not crossed The Line to me. If fact was pretty good executed. I'm still waiting the moment he will freak out indeed, he is someone I expect doubt attacks in the aftermath.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: fire n ice on 06 Oct 2014, 21:00
Jeph Jacques.

You.

Magnificent.

Bastard.

Now I will have to find a redhead as cute as Claire. I was soooo happy being a single guy and you had to ruin it.

Well played, sir, well played.

NEVER underestimate the power of a redhead.  Just ask my wife.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 06 Oct 2014, 21:03
You're missing the point.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)

Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: billydaking on 06 Oct 2014, 21:07
I'm still not happy about this.  Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic. 

A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status).  In strip time, it was only yesterday!  Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat. 

I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person.  Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this.  There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.

You mean like the Marten in 2666?  Which led to 2672, and which was immediately followed by a surprise visit from his mother to go on a date, which led to 2702, with some important advice from Mom in 2703. Which was followed later by Marten's field trip with Emily and Samantha, which led to a momentary confusion about Emily's possible interest and wondering why it freaked him out so much (2769).

The relationship between Claire and Marten has been a slow burn ever since Claire came out to him and ever since the wedding. He's actually become closer friends with Claire than everybody from the library, including Tai. So, when they both got a little drunk and Claire revealed her crush to him and then pulled back, Marten finally realized that Claire might see him more than as a friend. After Marten, in his words, "processed" what happened and what he now knows about Clarie's feelings (basically, he hit pause and did his mulling about the possibilities), he decided to take the risk and call Claire. Yeah, he missed Claire's attempt at flirting, but don't you think that happens a lot, with Marten and most people in general?

Marten's character been finding a direction for a long time now, ever since screwing up with Padma. Yeah, it might be hard to notice, because QC has become a large ensemble comic, but it's definitely there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Oneminutemonkey on 06 Oct 2014, 21:07
Long time reader, first time poster.
In fact, I registered just so I can say:
OMG OMG OMG OMG
SQUEEEEEEEEEEE
SO CUTE

I for one, am thrilled that for once we didn't have to put up with months of dithering and doubt and miscommunication, and that Marten finally acted on gut instinct. Claire's an adorable character, and I've liked her since she first showed up. And in a comic where we have regular lesbian and bisexual characters, it's still amazing to see the (arguable) lead of the strip falls for a trans girl and not making that an issue. So far, their few conversations about the topic have been mature, sensitive, and quite positive, and I'm just so happy to see this develop.  I mean, I could see the growing relationship and attraction between the two coming for a long time, and it doesn't come as a surprise at all.
So here's hoping we get some good stories out of the relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 21:08
You're missing the point.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)

Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.

This is butter AND honey/maple syrup?
You in the north hemisphere are very strange people...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 21:11
But again, how many days ago in comic time was the Emily Kiss arc?  Maybe 2 weeks?  Possibly less?  Seems like a hell of a lot of growth in a short period of time, given the response was pretty much "classic Marten."

The flow of time in the QCverse often confuses me.  I must confess that I find this arc very resonant on an emotional level, and am definitely in the category of reader with a strong identification with the characters, which naturally affects how i 'read' Marten's responses - in that, he is acting in the way that I wish I might act in the same or a similar situation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: OmegaChosen on 06 Oct 2014, 21:14
Sorry to pull away from all the squeeing but just a small question: is Claire still an intern?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Cat on 06 Oct 2014, 21:17
Va-va-va-VOOM!

Sorry to pull away from all the squeeing but just a small question: is Claire still an intern?
As is Marten. There's no supervisor/underling relationship to violate here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 06 Oct 2014, 21:19
Hmm.

This is awfully gutsy and decisive for Marten.

But he does start out by saying that he had "this big speech planned out in [his] head."

I'm inclined to take it as, he initially launched into his usual routine of fretting and dithering and over-analysing, and then in the middle of that, he said to himself, "Aaargh, I'm doing it again!  Screw this!  I'm just gonna go for it!" and dropped his forkful of diner pancake to call Claire.

People do have those moments.  They're rare, life-changing, and awesome.  If that was what happened for Marten, I wish some of it could've happened on-screen; it would've made this seem less abrupt.  But we might well get a recap; I wouldn't be at all surprised by a strip where he's telling Faye, "...but then I just said to myself, 'Aaargh, I'm doing it again!  Screw this!  I'm just gonna go for it!'"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: J on 06 Oct 2014, 21:19
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Oct 2014, 21:22
You're missing the point.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)

Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.

Is that maple squeeeerup on those pancakes?  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 06 Oct 2014, 21:23
Emily's kiss -> wine with Faye -> hangover => Then day 1
hangover -> Angus' audition -> missed flirt in library -> bar -> "cafuné" => Then day 2
Pancakes -> Day 3

There is not any space for a hidden space of time, the Emily's kiss was the day before yesterday in comic time.

Well, 20 posts, my OCD is kicking me out of this for almost ten hours.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: de_la_Nae on 06 Oct 2014, 21:23
Yeah, Orkboy really did put it best.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 06 Oct 2014, 21:23
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.

Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: John D on 06 Oct 2014, 21:23
This is the way I was hoping this would turn out, way cool! :-D
Also...
Butter and syrup is the only way to eat pancakes/waffles.  :laugh:

Yaaay kissing!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: danuis on 06 Oct 2014, 21:26
MartenClaire banzai! :wow:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: OmegaChosen on 06 Oct 2014, 21:29
Va-va-va-VOOM!

Sorry to pull away from all the squeeing but just a small question: is Claire still an intern?
As is Marten. There's no supervisor/underling relationship to violate here.
Marten I'm pretty sure is an actual employee of the library and not an intern. He's not a librarian but they still pay him and the fact he's been there for a while means he at least has seniority over them, which can lead to some murky circumstances if things go south.

In any case, it's not like I just pulled that out of the blue. Marten himself brings up the issue in regards to Emily a few weeks back(I think a few days in comic time? At least a week I'm sure). I was just asking since he seems to disregard what he said in that scenario in regards to now.  *shrug*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 06 Oct 2014, 21:32
That was probably addressed in the big speech he decided not to give.  I'm sure it'll be addressed (and possibly stressed over) at some point.  Tai will probably have some really unhelpful thoughts to contribute.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: OmegaChosen on 06 Oct 2014, 21:35
That was probably addressed in the big speech he decided not to give.  I'm sure it'll be addressed (and possibly stressed over) at some point.  Tai will probably have some really unhelpful thoughts to contribute.
I suppose. I guess I just took his little post liquor speech of "I'm telling Emily that it's inappropriate for an employee to date an intern" too much at face value when he really meant "I'm not into Emily enough to disregard the employee/intern thing". :p
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 21:37
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.

Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.

It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.

Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 06 Oct 2014, 21:38
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.

Perhaps part of it is their apparent maturity levels.  Claire seems a lot more mature/acts more like a competent adult than Emily.  Emily at times seems like she's a version of Sam in an adult body.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: OmegaChosen on 06 Oct 2014, 21:40
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.

Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.

It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.

Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.
Are evil genius babies one of the bad things?

Because I'm okay with that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Penquin47 on 06 Oct 2014, 21:41
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.

Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.

It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.

Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.

You do realize you suggested Tai carry Sven's child, don't you?  SVEN?  *shudders*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Oct 2014, 21:42
I want strips with Tai rolling her eyes as they try and fail miserably to keep it a secret at work.

Which I won't get because Marten will immediately tell her and even if he didn't Faye would tell Dora who'd tell Tai.

But I still want to see it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 21:45
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.

Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.

It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.

Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.

You do realize you suggested Tai carry Sven's child, don't you?  SVEN?  *shudders*
And the kid would be handsome!

Anyway I was thinking the other way around with Dora pregnant since Tai seems to be more masculine. Also sperm from older men is still functional so even a father would do. I think genetically speaking a father would produce a genetically closer child to what would be a child from the couple.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 06 Oct 2014, 21:48
I want strips with Tai rolling her eyes as they try and fail miserably to keep it a secret at work.

Which I won't get because Marten will immediately tell her and even if he didn't Faye would tell Dora who'd tell Tai.

But I still want to see it.

Tai: I know you two are bangin'.
Marten: Buh... I... we only kissed!
Tai: Seriously? 'Cause I could give you the afternoon off if you wanna do something about that...
Claire: I HAVE TO FINISH SHELVING THE RETURNS THERE ARE A LOT TODAY
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 21:59
Emily's kiss -> wine with Faye -> hangover => Then day 1
hangover -> Angus' audition -> missed flirt in library -> bar -> "cafuné" => Then day 2
Pancakes -> Day 3

There is not any space for a hidden space of time, the Emily's kiss was the day before yesterday in comic time.

Well, 20 posts, my OCD is kicking me out of this for almost ten hours.
Interesting, you used a term that is unique to one language. More specifically a variant from one country. Have this word becoming more popular on the internet?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: scarred on 06 Oct 2014, 22:04
A+
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CompSarge on 06 Oct 2014, 22:10
Looks like Jeph had a bit of a change of heart. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217)

Also, <insert squee here>.

Also also, as weird as it may sound, the fact that I've been single for over three years seems to make Clairten even more exciting for me. I guess the idea that someone like Marten (fictional though he may be) can get girl as awesome as Claire makes me feel like I have a chance too.

...that sounded much less pathetic in my head. :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Game and Watch Forever on 06 Oct 2014, 22:20
"I can't believe they're actually together! It's so romantic! They're gonna get married! And live happily ever after! And Marten will have a little sister brother-in-law! Eeek little sister Clinton!" - My brain re-writing comic 2705 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705) to fit what my brain is feeling from these recent comics. So much cute and happy! :D

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 06 Oct 2014, 22:26
Emily's kiss -> wine with Faye -> hangover => Then day 1
hangover -> Angus' audition -> missed flirt in library -> bar -> "cafuné" => Then day 2
Pancakes -> Day 3

There is not any space for a hidden space of time, the Emily's kiss was the day before yesterday in comic time.

Well, 20 posts, my OCD is kicking me out of this for almost ten hours.

You missed a day. If there are no gaps and the snake bite incident was day 0, pancakes are on day 4. There also appears to be room for a gap between 2280 and 2281.

2718-2737 (frog ceremony / may applies for jobs / snake bite / emily kiss)
Marten: green tee-shirt (destroyed in 2733) changing into Godspeed Your Black Emperor tee-shirt (2734)
Faye: sky blue camisole
Dora: gray tee-shirt
Hanners: yellow dress
Dale: The previous day's gray tee-shirt (2720) changing into Magical Love Gentleman shirt (2725)
May: The previous day's jumpsuit (2720-2722) changing into a white camisole (2725)
Tai: Magenta SMIF tee-shirt

2738-2771 (angus's callback / sven's come-on / dale's evening shift / marten and faye talk about sven / marten angst's about the kiss)
Marten: the previous day's Godspeed Your Black Emperor tee-shirt
Faye: red tee-shirt
Dora: gray tee-shirt
Hanners: White button-up over cyan boat neck (2738, 2757) changing into a pink tee-shirt for the evening shift (2759-2765)
Marigold: black tee-shirt
Dale: gray tee-shirt
May: gray tee-shirt

2772 - 2780 (marten and faye are hung over / dora decides on the svenectomy)
Marten: blue tee-shirt
Faye: teal boat neck
Dora: black boat neck
Hanners: teal tee-shirt
Marigold: magenta tee-shirt
Dale: green tee-shirt
Claire: cyan polo

--maybe a gap here?--

2781-2801 (missed flirt / bar / scritches)
Marten: green tee-shirt
Faye: cyan tee shirt
Dora: black camisole
Hanners: blue tee-shirt
Dale: gray tee-shirt
May: gray tee-shirt
Tai: White button-up
Claire: cyan dress changing into shirt & jeans

2803-2808 (pancakes / kiss)
Claire: white camisole
Marten: black tee-shirt
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 22:26
Looks like Jeph had a bit of a change of heart. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217)

Also, <insert squee here>.

Also also, as weird as it may sound, the fact that I've been single for over three years seems to make Clairten even more exciting for me. I guess the idea that someone like Marten (fictional though he may be) can get girl as awesome as Claire makes me feel like I have a chance too.

...that sounded much less pathetic in my head. :psyduck:

Do you at least talk to people?
(click to show/hide)

(Sorry, edited by mistake - Paul)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emoroffle on 06 Oct 2014, 22:39
Well my head just about exploded from this. I'm pretty sure my subsequent squee was only audible to canines.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fenriswolf on 06 Oct 2014, 22:59
This is even more true for me, since Claire coming out as trans gave me the courage to do the same >_>
Oo, I missed this at first. Congrats/high fives for you Miaboop!  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrClef on 06 Oct 2014, 23:00
So, seeing what was coming, I've archive-binged the comic over the past few days, and. . . well, looking back at it, there's been a lot of plot points building up to Marten deciding to grow a pair of non-gender-specific balls and go for it with Claire.

I mean, there's the Claire storyline, yeah, with Claire coming out as trans to him, the wedding, the growing friendship, etc. etc., but there's also been the side stories.

There's Dora and Tai, which cut off his lingering relationship with his ex and made it very clear to him that relationship was over.

There was Padma, where Marten pretty much learned not to fret so much about the future you miss the good things in front of you right now.

There was Dee, where Marten figured out that one-night-stands and casual sex-only relationships weren't for him, and he needed something deeper.

There was Emily, who helped him break down the taboos he might have held about dating interns. . . or, at least, Tai bringing up the subject really made him think about it and wonder what really would be so morally wrong about it. . .

And then there's the whole drama with Angus, Faye, and Sven, which is pretty much the whole, "lying and hiding your real feelings will make you feel miserable, but forcing your feelings on someone who isn't ready for it is just as douchebaggy."

Then there's his mother planting the seed of, "If it feels right, just go for it no matter how little common sense it might seem to make."

What I'm trying to say is that our depressed emo indie brat has been getting idea after idea planted in his head over the last few story arcs all pointing to, "ACT LIKE A GODDAMN MAN FOR ONCE."

. . . and watch, after all this warm feelings and sunshine, Jeff is going to pull the rug out from under all of us by having Marten die in a car accident on the way home or some fucking shit, God Forbid. :(
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 06 Oct 2014, 23:06
Growing balls tale time... (http://s3.amazonaws.com/static.fab.com/product/196220-1200x1200-1345213894-primary.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RaineThing on 06 Oct 2014, 23:07
Am I supposed to be able to see two new strips???

OMG I'm so happy right now. SQUEE doesn't even cover this!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CompSarge on 06 Oct 2014, 23:21
Looks like Jeph had a bit of a change of heart. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217)

Also, <insert squee here>.

Also also, as weird as it may sound, the fact that I've been single for over three years seems to make Clairten even more exciting for me. I guess the idea that someone like Marten (fictional though he may be) can get girl as awesome as Claire makes me feel like I have a chance too.

...that sounded much less pathetic in my head. :psyduck:

Do you at least talk to people?
(click to show/hide)

If by "talk to people" you mean be a third wheel with my roommate and his not-quite-girlfriend and spend a lot of time swiping through Tinder, then yes. >.> Relationships are hard when you don't have a place where you can go hang out with people your age (or can't stand going to bars).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 06 Oct 2014, 23:27
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you !  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arancaytar on 06 Oct 2014, 23:33
Wow; after Faye/Angus and Marigold/Dale, this was refreshingly simple and drama-free. It even beats Dora/Tai, and the only drama there was going on one date with Jim (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1945) first.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 23:35
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you !  :-D

Maybe its easier to talk about horrible things than happy ones sometimes  - or big goofy grins instead of words, words, words :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Oct 2014, 23:40
Wow; after Faye/Angus and Marigold/Dale, this was refreshingly simple and drama-free. It even beats Dora/Tai, and the only drama there was going on one date with Jim (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1945) first.

It's the calm before the storm. Now that we have a new happy couple it's time for Angus to move away and for the Dorapocalypse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: theMarc on 06 Oct 2014, 23:42
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 06 Oct 2014, 23:43
Ah, Jeph! You warm the cockles of an old romantic's heart!

Still, like others, this has the feel to me of something that Marten has been working towards for some time. I think that the immediate cause was his mother starting a relationship with Jim. However, its roots, IMHO, can be traced back to his conversation with Lt Porter about not over-thinking things. This was backed up by Pintsize of all people. I just think that, after so many people around him have found love by going with their feelings that he has decided that it is safe to do the same.

Now the hard part starts: Starting a relationship is easy; the early honeymoon period is easy. Maintaining it and making it grow healthily is hard and their particular circumstances can only make it harder. Still, he got one thing right:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheCollector on 06 Oct 2014, 23:43
Wow; after Faye/Angus and Marigold/Dale, this was refreshingly simple and drama-free. It even beats Dora/Tai, and the only drama there was going on one date with Jim (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1945) first.

It's the calm before the storm. Now that we have a new happy couple it's time for Angus to move away and for the Dorapocalypse.
Dorapocalypse? Don't you mean, the alpacalypse?  :claireface: :claireface:
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/274/8/2/alpacalypse_by_potentialmoron-d4bhv3u.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Oct 2014, 23:44
I can think of at least three good reason for Claire to have trouble trusting someone. Her courage is more noteworthy than Marten's sudden eptitude.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HauntingPoem on 06 Oct 2014, 23:44
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you !  :-D

Maybe its easier to talk about horrible things than happy ones sometimes  - or big goofy grins instead of words, words, words :-D

I think that was sarcasm bro.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tolf on 06 Oct 2014, 23:46
This is going to give someone a heart attack. It's finally happening after so much suspense. I've been waiting for this since claire was first introduced.  :mrgreen: Jeph is giving people what they want. I'll be heartbroken when they inevitably break up. No couples last forever in QC.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 06 Oct 2014, 23:47
I think that was sarcasm bro.

Yep, I assumed that it was ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Oct 2014, 23:54
Do you at least talk to people?
(click to show/hide)

Is that Watamote(I've watched part of the anime, but wasn't aware of a manga.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 06 Oct 2014, 23:56
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you !  :-D

I can squeee again if it makes you feel better.

*squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Oct 2014, 23:56
Dorapocalypse? Don't you mean, the alpacalypse?  :claireface: :claireface:

(http://i60.tinypic.com/24y5mrd.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 00:01
The first email I got at work today (spam) was "The Apocalypse has begun".  I'm keeping it for future reference and /or legal action if the Apocalypse doesn't, actually, begin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 00:05
Regarding Emily, I think we're all underestimating just how deliriously happy she's going to be that her two favourite people are in a relationship. So happy that getting her to leave them alone for one damn minute will be hard.  :lol:

If anyone will be sceptical, I think that it will be Dora. She is protective of Marten, fairly anxious in nature and, I think, doesn't have confidence in his decision-making. I wonder if she'll have a fight with Tai on the subject.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Indicible on 07 Oct 2014, 00:12
So, yes, squeeeeeeee indeed.
Marten making the first move: unprecedented. So, yes, he is growing.
Now to see how Jeph handles the romance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 07 Oct 2014, 00:14
Well, he tried making the first move with Lt. Potter as well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 07 Oct 2014, 00:25
Also, SQUEEE!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TinPenguin on 07 Oct 2014, 00:30
Finally!

AND IT'S ONLY TUESDAY
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 07 Oct 2014, 00:32
Emily will be sad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 00:34
Well, he tried making the first move with Lt. Potter as well.

And he asked D for makeouts don't forget. He appears perfectly willing to make the first move when he's had a little liquid courage first and when you consider he had the same before making the first move on Claire its perfectly within character. Today he was already over that hurdle and it was just a matter of making sure she knew it wasn't the booze talking.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RaineThing on 07 Oct 2014, 00:41
So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: davedig on 07 Oct 2014, 00:50
My reaction to the strips was this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0j0lO7uQBo&feature=player_detailpage#t=18

The theme music of all these build ups was the one used from the latest Godzilla movie when he gets up and swims back into the sea. Such wonderful development for Marten and Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 07 Oct 2014, 00:52
So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?

Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RaineThing on 07 Oct 2014, 00:57
So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?

Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.

awww dam. I'm happy I saw it but now I have nothing to look forward to tomorrow haha
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 07 Oct 2014, 01:01
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.

This keeps coming up. It was an excuse, a rationalisation for not being interested in Emily without having to say anything personally disrespectful like "she's too weird".
He's also been mentally blocking his attraction to Claire, and I think Claire was doing the same in 2796 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2796) - my interpretation of which was that she likes Marten but doesn't want to admit it, possibly even to herself but certainly not to anyone else,  so again the "professional relationship" stuff was a smoke screen of rationalization.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 01:14
Actually it was Tai who brought ethics into it http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737 and Marten doesn't look happy when she does. Could be he was thinking of Claire at the time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 01:40
Actually it was Tai who brought ethics into it http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737 and Marten doesn't look happy when she does. Could be he was thinking of Claire at the time.

I found this strip particularly funny because it was clear that even Tai wasn't particularly impressed by the implied rule and its' implications for Marten's personal life. Marten's reaction (basically "D'oh! Another unwritten rule for me to follow!") showed that, even then, Faye and Tai had planted in his mind the seeds of his wondering about the Intern Girls on a romantic level.

So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?

Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.

Or, alternately, it was a bonus for feed subscribers and forum members (who could be relied upon to pass the word). That said, no, I don't think that there will be a new strip tomorrow, just a public release of strip 2808.

I actually think that Thursday and Friday's strips will be the start of a new arc or some fillers. Maybe we can find out what happened to May (I'm thinking several exploded bottles of maple syrup on the store's shelves that she foolishly cleaned up without putting on gloves first). Maybe some Steve and Cosette domesticity. Maybe Angus will return and he and Faye will set records for avoiding the elephant sitting in the middle of the room. Or maybe we can peek in on some of the secondary characters for a few strips.

The point is that, for now at least, the Marten-Claire arc is at good point where it can be allowed to lie for a while. The camera can zoom out with them sitting on the Augustus home's porch, holding each other and simply basking in being together and then fade to the commercial break. We may see their first day at work as a couple (possibly with Tai, tongue only partly in cheek, telling them "No make-outs in the stacks! The students are bad enough!"). However, I think we an move away from them in the strip for a while.

I suspect that the next major arc with them will likely be their first date as a couple. This will include plenty of Sims-esque wardrobe selection strips and some classic QC snark being thrown at popular culture and the proper protocol for 'dates' when you already know someone pretty well. However, that won't happen for a while.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 07 Oct 2014, 01:51
Omg omg omg omg. This was better than I ever dared hope.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 07 Oct 2014, 02:20

Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.

I wouldn't say that. The Young protectors updates Wednesdays, and so does XKCD.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 07 Oct 2014, 02:34
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you !  :-D

Maybe its easier to talk about horrible things than happy ones sometimes  - or big goofy grins instead of words, words, words :-D
IIRC when Marten and Dora united, the thread about it had hit 35 pages in no time.  :-D

Thats why this was rather meager in comparison.  8-)



I think that was sarcasm bro.
Hey ! I was joking around ! Not sarcastic ! I even put the right smiley there !!!



Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.
Hmm I only saw one strip today.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LackOfGrace on 07 Oct 2014, 02:43
Obligatory
Sqeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 02:44
Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.

Hmm I only saw one strip today.

You can't directly access it from the site's interface, you need to manually enter its address into the address bar. You can wait 24 hours or PM me for the address to copy-and-paste.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 07 Oct 2014, 02:58
I think genetically speaking a father would produce a genetically closer child to what would be a child from the couple.

The father shares exactly half of the genes of his child, the brother shares on average half of the genes of his sister. In either case on average half the genes passed on would be genes shared with the prospective parent.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 03:07
I think genetically speaking a father would produce a genetically closer child to what would be a child from the couple.

The father shares exactly half of the genes of his child, the brother shares on average half of the genes of his sister. In either case on average half the genes passed on would be genes shared with the prospective parent.

Then there is the whole dominant vs. recessive genes issue too that enable you to inherit a majority of physical characteristics from your mother or even your grandparents.

With respect to the Augustus family, I'm thinking that Mr Augustus was probably either a blond or a redhead with blue or green eyes too; those are recessive traits and both parents sharing them would make it far more likely that they would be inherited by the two children. That said, if Hannelore's dad is working on that technology (and I'm sure he is), any Marten + Claire children would be more likely to have black hair as it is a dominant trait and more likely to be expressed in any offspring than red hair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Alkahest on 07 Oct 2014, 03:09
Kick. Ass.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 07 Oct 2014, 03:12
I did a happy pillow hug, rocking back and forth. 

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 07 Oct 2014, 03:20
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.

The technology that Ellicott-Chatham is working on may only apply when at least one partner can produce eggs. Real-world technology exists to fertilize an egg without sperm (although I don't believe it's been proven to be viable yet), and has since 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stm

However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 03:43
The technology that Ellicott-Chatham is working on may only apply when at least one partner can produce eggs. Real-world technology exists to fertilize an egg without sperm (although I don't believe it's been proven to be viable yet), and has since 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stm

However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...

Of course invisible self-aware fighter-bombers, anthropomorphic AIs and town-sized permanently-crewed space stations with artificial gravity are also absurdly difficult and expensive, yet E-C seem to have achieved them. I've seen things in the strip that suggest a transition in the QC-verse might involve the use of nanorobots to restructure the subject's body in ways a RL transition could never do without hideously expensive re-constructive surgery and organ transplants over a period of several years. However, I think discussion of that would be out of place due to forum rules.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Oct 2014, 03:46
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...

And then you still have the issue of mitochondrial DNA, which sperm don't carry...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 07 Oct 2014, 03:58
Of course invisible self-aware fighter-bombers, anthropomorphic AIs and town-sized permanently-crewed space stations with artificial gravity are also absurdly difficult and expensive, yet E-C seem to have achieved them.

That's mostly computer science and physics, though, not biology. While the general technology level might be a good deal higher, it's possible that the biosciences are less advanced.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cinvid on 07 Oct 2014, 04:01
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Yep, came here to say that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 07 Oct 2014, 04:19
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 04:31
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on.  :-D

"Like and Comfortable", based on Marten's two criteria for going for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TadPrime on 07 Oct 2014, 04:50
Too direct and decisivefor Marten; this is a Claire dream.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Oct 2014, 04:55
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.
It's coming soon here though. One generation, tops.

Quote
Gothenburg, Sweden: The parents of the first baby born to a woman who had a womb transplant say they hope they can be an inspiration to others struggling with infertility.

After what they describe as a rollercoaster of a journey, the unnamed Swedish couple finally became parents last month, when the mother gave birth to a healthy but premature baby boy. For the couple, making history was an afterthought.

"Yes, we're the first to do this, but that's not the important thing," she said during an interview at their home, in an undisclosed part of Sweden. "I want people to know that what they think is impossible can happen."

To mark their baby's birth as a victory over their difficult journey to parenthood, they named him Vincent, meaning "to conquer".

Cradling her sleeping young son, she said she still could not believe she was finally a mother, after being told at 15 that she had no womb and would never carry her own children. Now 36, she was one of nine women to receive a transplanted womb last year in a groundbreaking trial led by Dr Mats Brannstrom, a professor of gynaecology and obstetrics at the University of Gothenburg and Stockholm IVF.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/woman-with-womb-transplant-marvels-at-baby-20141007-10rjo3.html#ixzz3FSVvJis5

Quote
Abstract

Stem cells are undifferentiated cells that are present in the embryonic, fetal, and adult stages of life and give rise to differentiated cells that make up the building blocks of tissue and organs. Due to their unlimited source and high differentiation potential, stem cells are considered as potentially new therapeutic agents for the treatment of infertility. Stem cells could be stimulated in vitro to develop various numbers of specialized cells including male and female gametes suggesting their potential use in reproductive medicine. During past few years a considerable progress in the derivation of male germ cells from pluripotent stem cells has been made. In addition, stem cell-based strategies for ovarian regeneration and oocyte production have been proposed as future clinical therapies for treating infertility in women. In this review, we summarized current knowledge and present future perspectives and challenges regarding the use of stem cells in reproductive medicine.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/507234/abs/

Too late for me. But I cheated, so won the biological parental prize anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 05:06
An alternate prediction for Thursday and Friday's strips:

THURSDAY:
Panel 1: Marten waiting on the porch;
Panel 2: Full-body of Claire in a new wardrobe (maybe a long skirt with a knee-height slit and an off-one-shoulder top and maybe a touch of make-up);
Panel 3: Marten says it's a good new look and Claire replies that's she's celebrating the day by being done with apologising for her femininity;
Panel 4: Marten and Claire walking down a street in Northhampton; Marten makes some Indy-music-reference comment relevant to the theme of 'no apologies' and Claire responds in a way that shows she gets it (yes, she does like Indy music, remember?).

FRIDAY:
Panel 1: Marten and Claire leaving CoD (Faye and Hanners working the counter in the background) with several coffees and an 'Azuma Special', both smiling at each other;
Panel 2: Faye: "Did you see that?" Hanners: "Do you think...?" Dora (on her cell): "Tai! You'll never guess who just breezed through the store looking like teenagers in love!"
Panel 3: Marten and Claire enter the library, hand in hand;
Panel 4: They stop dead, eyes wide at what they see;
Panel 5 (double width): Tai, Emily, Gabby and Momo standing behind the counter, all cheering, under a hastily-produced bedsheet banner: 'Congratulations Lovebirds!'; Emily is throwing confetti into the air.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 07 Oct 2014, 05:15
That's beautiful, BenRG, but not likely to happen, I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 07 Oct 2014, 05:29
Unless Clinton makes a sudden appearance, I think this thread has come to a natural end. Marten and Claire need to get off stage for a while. Predictions for the next few days:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 05:31
The technology that Ellicott-Chatham is working on may only apply when at least one partner can produce eggs. Real-world technology exists to fertilize an egg without sperm (although I don't believe it's been proven to be viable yet), and has since 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stm

However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...

Of course invisible self-aware fighter-bombers, anthropomorphic AIs and town-sized permanently-crewed space stations with artificial gravity are also absurdly difficult and expensive, yet E-C seem to have achieved them. I've seen things in the strip that suggest a transition in the QC-verse might involve the use of nanorobots to restructure the subject's body in ways a RL transition could never do without hideously expensive re-constructive surgery and organ transplants over a period of several years. However, I think discussion of that would be out of place due to forum rules.

HannerDad is basically the justification for any wacky, light-years-ahead-of-our-time bit of technology Jeph might like to introduce to the strip. And, by extension, for any speculations we might have about what might be possible. The lampshading is easy-peasy: Just have Hanners pop in to say "Oh, that incredibly sophisticated and improbably scientific/tech development? Yeah, my dad made that shit happen."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: techkid on 07 Oct 2014, 05:33
Dammit, Jeph! You just successfully defrosted my otherwise cold, bitter heart!

Seriously, I am totally lost for words. The moment is just... too beautiful.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CaptainFish on 07 Oct 2014, 05:35
Yay, Marten dealt with it with tact and confidence, and Claire is totally into it!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 07 Oct 2014, 05:41
If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.

One could argue it's bad writing if you have a sudden divergence in a plot, with the explanation that important developments happened off page. 

It also just doesn't make sense considering Marten shares drama on the littlest things, like Emily kissing him on the cheek, with multiple friends. 

So what you're saying is: he's acting too formulaic and not like his true self?

Yeah.  Honestly it feels like fanservice to me.  Jeph knew it would be popular, so he decided to do it (probably around 3-4 weeks ago).  To the extent there was any foreshadowing, it was just so minor compared to what Jeph set up regarding Faye and Dora. 

I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning.  This is just so disappointing to me.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently. 

Claire? She trusts him, he trusts her, they're comfortable around each other, and in a moment of vulnerability for both of them (Marten being drunk, Claire having been forced to think about it by Faye), they connect. Claire realizes that she's been attracted to Marten all along, Marten realizes that he's liked Claire all along, and then the next morning... (And, the tension has probably been there on Claire's part since the lake party, and Marten's part since the wedding, I think.)

As I said, there's plenty of reason for it to happen, I just don't like how it happened.  Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 strips, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something.  There should have been some hand-wringing involved.  Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.


This.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 07 Oct 2014, 05:50
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on.  :-D
A+
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 07 Oct 2014, 05:52
KOK is absolutely right. A+ it is!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Oct 2014, 05:54
Is... and will be!  :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 07 Oct 2014, 06:01
Oh. Good. You're all still here. I read the comic and came in here with the expectation that a nuclear blast of squee had wiped the whole place out.  That there might be a squeecloud of some sort and nothing but rubble...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Oct 2014, 06:04
Well, after the comic was posted the thread grew by four pages in under four hours; that was about one post a minute.  Now that the US is waking up, I expect the rate to increase again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 06:05
Well, after the comic was posted the thread grew by four pages in under four hours; that was about one post a minute.  Now that the US is waking up, I expect the rate to increase again.

What, you don't think that they stayed up ultra-late to wait for Jeph to post? :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 06:07
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on.  :-D

Humans have a tremendous capacity for self deception.  In our arrogance we thought we were ready for anything, then one day in 2014 it all changed. That day we discovered that everything we thought we knew didn't amount to anything in the face of what was coming for us. It was the day of the squee. Be afraid.

Edit; Fixed a typo
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 06:17
Really, the crowning moment of heartwarming for this arc is Claire's little smile in Strip 2808, panel 3. She's suddenly let herself believe that this is really happening and suddenly the day and life itself has totally changed for her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rail on 07 Oct 2014, 06:26
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.

He's been using that excuse for a while as a way of rationalising why he shouldn't get romantically involved with the interns. And with him not being attracted to Emily, he has kept using that excuse to justify not wanting to get involved with her (not that she really demonstrated romantic interest in Marten).

It's easy to do nothing when you can rationalise not doing it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 07 Oct 2014, 06:32
Really, the crowning moment of heartwarming for this arc is Claire's little smile in Strip 2808, panel 3. She's suddenly let herself believe that this is really happening and suddenly the day and life itself has totally changed for her.

The blush is gone. That was the first thing I noticed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Uniquitous on 07 Oct 2014, 06:36
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Swedish Chef on 07 Oct 2014, 06:36
#2808 is still up for me, and despite not being The Kiss(tm) might actually be more squeetastic.

2808 is/was/will have been/whilom haven been pitch-perfect. Am I the only one who tried to see if 2809 was there too?

I'm still not happy about this.  Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic. 

A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status).  In strip time, it was only yesterday!  Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat. 

I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person.  Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this.  There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense. 

If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.

I do share eschalon's feelings on this one; the whole thing looks too rushed/unreal. First Marten craves pancackes to clean a drunken night away, then he's eating at Claire's house, then you get some odd explanation as to why he ended up at Claire's house in the first place.

And now ... Since the invention of the kiss, there have only been five kisses that were rated the most passionate, the most pure.

I don't know, I just don't know.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 07 Oct 2014, 06:43
I do share eschalon's feelings on this one; the whole thing looks too rushed/unreal. First Marten craves pancackes to clean a drunken night away, then he's eating at Claire's house, then you get some odd explanation as to why he ended up at Claire's house in the first place.

And now ... Since the invention of the kiss, there have only been five kisses that were rated the most passionate, the most pure.

I don't know, I just don't know.

Do you have an issue with any of the other "odd" things that have happened in this comic? The sequence of events that led up to Marten getting to Claire's house actually seems par for the course for QC.

Hell it's even totally believable IRL. When I lived with my parents they would answer my cell phone if I wasn't going to.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: katharsys on 07 Oct 2014, 06:49
I... I... *sigh* I am at a loss for words, which in this case isn't a bad thing.

I would squee some more, but I think I am all squeed out at this point. Just going to settle for a contented sigh and say A+.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 07 Oct 2014, 06:50
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764

Thanks.  Now this, and Transformers and Regular Show, is going to be stuck in my head all day.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 07 Oct 2014, 06:52
So I am still re-reading the comic, and came across this page: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2245  Maybe Marten took that piece to heart, about "Waiting is for suckers"?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bryntheskits on 07 Oct 2014, 06:53
(http://i.imgur.com/tcoMcbW.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 07:09
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764

So then I'm the only one who went with the old standby?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 07 Oct 2014, 07:13
This is going to give someone a heart attack. It's finally happening after so much suspense. I've been waiting for this since claire was first introduced.  :mrgreen: Jeph is giving people what they want. I'll be heartbroken when they inevitably break up. No couples last forever in QC.

Are you wishing doom on Peter and Elssa? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SteveCostello on 07 Oct 2014, 07:13
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit holyshit EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Devlosirrus on 07 Oct 2014, 07:22
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764

So then I'm the only one who went with the old standby?

This calls for TMBG.  http://youtu.be/au-B2W7S6lc
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 07:30


This calls for TMBG. 

I'm not going to break out the Dressy Bessy so you win.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kryptoknight on 07 Oct 2014, 07:31
The squee that was induced by 2807 and 2808 may have liquified my brain.  Please excuse me whilst I go scoop up my grey matter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 07 Oct 2014, 07:44
You mean like the Marten in 2666?  Which led to 2672, and which was immediately followed by a surprise visit from his mother to go on a date, which led to 2702, with some important advice from Mom in 2703. Which was followed later by Marten's field trip with Emily and Samantha, which led to a momentary confusion about Emily's possible interest and wondering why it freaked him out so much (2769).

The relationship between Claire and Marten has been a slow burn ever since Claire came out to him and ever since the wedding. He's actually become closer friends with Claire than everybody from the library, including Tai. So, when they both got a little drunk and Claire revealed her crush to him and then pulled back, Marten finally realized that Claire might see him more than as a friend. After Marten, in his words, "processed" what happened and what he now knows about Clarie's feelings (basically, he hit pause and did his mulling about the possibilities), he decided to take the risk and call Claire. Yeah, he missed Claire's attempt at flirting, but don't you think that happens a lot, with Marten and most people in general?

Marten's character been finding a direction for a long time now, ever since screwing up with Padma. Yeah, it might be hard to notice, because QC has become a large ensemble comic, but it's definitely there.

Martin was clearly going through a crisis in terms of life direction and what he wanted.  But IMHO it's kind of offensive to say what he was looking to fill the hole was a woman.  It especially becomes clear if you think about the genders being flipped around - if Marten was a girl who was fluttering around aimlessly, and then a man completed her.  Marten's main issue is he's a full on grownup with no plan for the future.  He doesn't want to go to grad school, he doesn't seem interested in a real job, and basically has nothing but vague dreams of being a musician he doesn't try too hard on.  He's a reasonably smart dude with no ambition.   

Maybe Claire can give him the support he needs to actually, you know, stop acting like a boy and become a man.  But it would have been so much more rewarding to see Martin genuinely grow up while he was single than to do it under Claire's tutelage.  Sort of similar to how Faye did so much improvement of herself while being single before Angus ever came into the picture. 

That's what I was seriously expecting from Martin anyway.  Becoming a grownup.  And that's why I'm a bit let down if, as people said, this is what Martin's new "decisiveness" boiled down to.

In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.

Clairmom probably doesn't have viable eggs any longer.  Most women cannot get pregnant via their own eggs past age 44, and I'm guessing she's at least a few years older than that. 

However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...

I don't think this violates forum rules to say.  My apologies if it does, but given it's been established that Claire has been on hormones for 5-6 years, no matter the status of her bits, she isn't going to have any sperm to extract DNA from.  The DNA would have to come directly from somatic (body) cells, not gametes. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 07:47
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...

And then you still have the issue of mitochondrial DNA, which sperm don't carry...

Mitochondrial DNA isn't a big deal and all you have to do is use the egg from a relative from the mother side of one of the individuals. It is entirely possible but there is a good chance of the proccess not going whrere it should go. Mostly of the times the embryo just becomes inviable and dies (like a YY or a triploid or another kid of serious chromossome aberration) but there are the smaller accidents.


Do you at least talk to people?
(click to show/hide)

Is that Watamote(I've watched part of the anime, but wasn't aware of a manga.)
Yeah, recently I found a blog by an aspie writer and she sais that is is a perfect despiction of an aspie train of thought.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tormuse on 07 Oct 2014, 07:48
SQUEEEE!  :D

That is all.  :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Alkahest on 07 Oct 2014, 07:53
I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.

I don't think I've ever so much looked forward to seeing where this comic goes, as I do know. I just want to see these two persons complete each other. That'd make me all fuzzy inside.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 07:58
In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.

Clairmom probably doesn't have viable eggs any longer.  Most women cannot get pregnant via their own eggs past age 44, and I'm guessing she's at least a few years older than that. 
You are wrong in two points.
Yes, woman past 44 can get pregnenant. The chances are smaller but it is not even close to "cannot get" the main concern is on genetic problems like down's syndrome.

And I don't think Claire's mom look that old, she looks pretty youthful (and hot)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/surrogate-mother-61-gives-birth-to-her-grandson/blogEntry?id=17151493&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.br%2F
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 07 Oct 2014, 07:59
I haven't written anything in a while because the comic seemed to be ebbing along for some time there but ...

... yesterday, I could feel the internet collectively sucking in air in suspenseful silence. And today an entire community of fans of a certain webcomic squeed in such a high pitch that I'm certain even the Jedis have felt it!  :-D


Without further adoo, I will join and thusly forfeit all the manliness that I've accumulated over the past months of working construction:
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 07 Oct 2014, 08:05
Just a thought about two episodes being available today...

Maybe I'm overthinking (like Marten used to do) but it could be the reason Jeph leaked the second comic quietly was because he knew there would be something of a discussion about how Marten would handle Claire's gender status, and he wanted to make it clear that Marten had given it some thought and was more concerned about Claire the person than, well, Claire the trans person. For now, end of that discussion.

"Cross that bridge when we get to it" works out pretty well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 08:20
My guess as to what will happen in the next few days. Claire and Marten will go to CoD and Faye being all content with playing matchmaker will undoubtedly lead to her own relationship problems and that is where the story arc will jump to her and Angus
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 07 Oct 2014, 08:40

You're missing the point.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)

Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.

This is butter AND honey/maple syrup?
You in the north hemisphere are very strange people...

The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them, then provides a carafe of syrup to dip in. It is simultaneously too much and perfection.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 08:41
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone? Will it still be tomorrow's comic, or was it some sort of mistake that will never be posted and never be canon now?

And if the latter is the case, is it screen-capped somewhere?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 08:43
The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them, then provides a carafe of syrup to dip in. It is simultaneously too much and perfection.
Wouldn't that make them non-vegan?  :?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 08:43
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Oct 2014, 08:45
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone?

It's uploaded, but not published through the web site.  There are multiple links to it back in the thread; or you can just click the Previous button and then edit the comic number in the URL to the number for tomorrow's post.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: RyanW1019 on 07 Oct 2014, 08:45
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone? Will it still be tomorrow's comic, or was it some sort of mistake that will never be posted and never be canon now?

And if the latter is the case, is it screen-capped somewhere?

Pretty sure it was put up early by accident. You can still see it if you change the comic number in the address bar to 2808, although hitting the Next button on the front page doesn't work.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 08:47
I can see and understand some of the criticism of the storyline to this point, but I guess there's no way everyone is going to be 100% happy with the execution of a major plot development in a well-loved story.  It may have happened too easily or quickly for some tastes, it may seem completely implausible to others.

That said, sometimes all you've got is "here's what happened," to borrow a line from Stephen King.  Barring someone waking up from a rather involved dream, this is what happened.  There may be details that get filled in later and there may not be, but whether by walking, driving, flying, or teleportation - here we are.

I happen to be really, really happy with what happened, so I understand in advance if my bias is challenged.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 07 Oct 2014, 08:47

The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them, then provides a carafe of syrup to dip in. It is simultaneously too much and perfection.
Wouldn't that make them non-vegan?  :?

No, it is earth balance, but it's slower to type the full brand name
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 08:48
That's what I was seriously expecting from Martin anyway.  Becoming a grownup.  And that's why I'm a bit let down if, as people said, this is what Martin's new "decisiveness" boiled down to.

Personally, I think that the mistake that some posters are making (and I made it too) is that we all forgot that Marten's growing up has been going on all the time. It arguably started as far back as when Lt Porter called him an ass for avoiding Padma. He's since been slowly and certainly painfully sometimes, learning the importance to move forwards on his own initiative. He's seen how it is working out for others and he's seen how failing to do so has hurt them on occasion.

His experience with Claire is simply the final outcome. Claire's own situation and his general need to be protective of his friends meant that he couldn't be passive and let her set the pace. He had to take the initiative or there was no telling how badly she might be hurt. Once he set himself the intent of sorting things out (even if only after breakfast), his fairly quick internal monologue would have probably done the rest.

So, Claire isn't an end in of itself - It's one of the outcomes of him either reaching or approaching that end. We might see other outcomes, such as him doing more with Deathmole (maybe persuading Amir to hire a keyboardist and a vocalist as well as working on more songs)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 08:50
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 07 Oct 2014, 08:51
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smashwidget on 07 Oct 2014, 08:52
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 08:56
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious.

Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 07 Oct 2014, 08:59
I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter.  Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 09:05
Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again

This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 07 Oct 2014, 09:06
it could be the reason Jeph leaked the second comic quietly was because he knew there would be something of a discussion about how Marten would handle Claire's gender status, and he wanted to make it clear that Marten had given it some thought and was more concerned about Claire the person than, well, Claire the trans person. For now, end of that discussion.
Perhaps, it certainly is an important follow-on that isn't really much of a spoiler (whereas leaking the kiss would have been awful). A convenient accident, at least.

For those who keep asking about the not-so-missing comic you can still get there by direct link (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 09:06
I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter.  Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.

Butter is actually healthier calorie wise for you than almond butter with the fat being around the same per serving
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 09:07
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!

At my local vegan joint, they'd just bring you scrambled tofu and some god-awful soy-based abomination that they spray-painted pink in the prep room.

I like to eat vegan, but I HATE attempts at having items comparable to traditional animal-flesh fare. They're not making veganism better, they're just making bacon & eggs shitty.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 07 Oct 2014, 09:08
I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.

It's in his eyes.  Those big, shiny blue eyes. 


When was the last time he blinked? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 09:08
I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter.  Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.
Almond butter also have fat. So does peanut butter and nutella
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 09:09
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone?

It's uploaded, but not published through the web site.  There are multiple links to it back in the thread; or you can just click the Previous button and then edit the comic number in the URL to the number for tomorrow's post.

Thanks! I have no self-restraint, so after about 3 seconds of pretending I wasn't gonna read it, I read it, and OMG Woohoo!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 09:10
I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.

It's in his eyes.  Those big, shiny blue eyes. 


When was the last time he blinked?
That was before he needed to blink. Now he is full machine and no longer is vulnerable to such weaknesses
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 09:11
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious.

Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again

Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?

No one, that's who.

I have hard opinions on things.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 09:14
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious.

Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again

Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?

No one, that's who.

I have hard opinions on things.
I think it follows the peanut butter trend. Probably they use butter as a word for a texture firmer than cream.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 09:17
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious.

Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again

Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?

No one, that's who.

I have hard opinions on things.
I think it follows the peanut butter trend. Probably they use butter as a word for a texture firmer than cream.

Yeah, totally, but I think you always need to use some sort of indehiscent-related* modifier if you want anyone to know you're talking about something besides dairy butter or margarine.


*Why yes, I DID just read the Wikipedia entry for "Nuts."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 09:19
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!

At my local vegan joint, they'd just bring you scrambled tofu and some god-awful soy-based abomination that they spray-painted pink in the prep room.

I like to eat vegan, but I HATE attempts at having items comparable to traditional animal-flesh fare. They're not making veganism better, they're just making bacon & eggs shitty.

I try to eat one vegan meal a week, but still eat normally the rest of the week. But what they did to the bacon and eggs was a travesty, I could see the pan indents on the bottom of the tofu eggs and had to douse it in sriracha before it tasted like anything.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 09:22
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 07 Oct 2014, 09:22
Huh, that's good to know.  Learning is awesome!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mlle Germain on 07 Oct 2014, 10:06
Tuesday and up to 12 pages? Not bad.
Comic is going along nicely, right? I'm glad that Claire has overcome her anxiety so far and I'm looking forward to what happens next.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Oct 2014, 10:11
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!
"She don't use jelly"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 07 Oct 2014, 10:16
This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.

I'm vegan and I never buy fake meat. Sometimes I buy vegan items which are shaped similarly to some meat items - such as vegan sausages, burgers or soya mince - but that is not fake meat. That is just the shape that food is. Pigs don't grow in sausage shapes.

The reason those products exist isn't because vegans demand them, but because a) the food industry generally lacks imagination and b) it is a lot more profitable to sell a wide range of speciality items rather than just vegetables, pulses and grains.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 07 Oct 2014, 10:30
This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.

I'm vegan and I never buy fake meat. Sometimes I buy vegan items which are shaped similarly to some meat items - such as vegan sausages, burgers or soya mince - but that is not fake meat. That is just the shape that food is. Pigs don't grow in sausage shapes.

The reason those products exist isn't because vegans demand them, but because a) the food industry generally lacks imagination and b) it is a lot more profitable to sell a wide range of speciality items rather than just vegetables, pulses and grains.

I was going to say that about veggie patties and stuff but you worded it better than me.

As far as mock meats themselves, I do eat them. The 'fake meat' thing is kind of dumb, but the things used as fake meat- generally variations on seitan and soy products- have good texture to add to other dishes.

Regarding bacon (which is neither a product like seitan or a shape that food is), I think it's just a poorly-executed response to those meat eaters who go 'but BACON!?' to all vegetarians/vegans
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 07 Oct 2014, 10:50
You are wrong in two points.
Yes, woman past 44 can get pregnenant. The chances are smaller but it is not even close to "cannot get" the main concern is on genetic problems like down's syndrome.

And I don't think Claire's mom look that old, she looks pretty youthful (and hot)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/surrogate-mother-61-gives-birth-to-her-grandson/blogEntry?id=17151493&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.br%2F

I said via their own eggs.  The woman in the linked article carried her daughter's pregnancy to term. 

My wife is 43.  I don't think you can't be hot at that age, or youthful.   :psyduck:  But I think the wrinkles around Clairemom's eyes are supposed to convey a somewhat older status.  Might be a tad younger than Martin's Mom at 56, but not much. 

Personally, I think that the mistake that some posters are making (and I made it too) is that we all forgot that Marten's growing up has been going on all the time. It arguably started as far back as when Lt Porter called him an ass for avoiding Padma. He's since been slowly and certainly painfully sometimes, learning the importance to move forwards on his own initiative. He's seen how it is working out for others and he's seen how failing to do so has hurt them on occasion.

His experience with Claire is simply the final outcome. Claire's own situation and his general need to be protective of his friends meant that he couldn't be passive and let her set the pace. He had to take the initiative or there was no telling how badly she might be hurt. Once he set himself the intent of sorting things out (even if only after breakfast), his fairly quick internal monologue would have probably done the rest.

So, Claire isn't an end in of itself - It's one of the outcomes of him either reaching or approaching that end. We might see other outcomes, such as him doing more with Deathmole (maybe persuading Amir to hire a keyboardist and a vocalist as well as working on more songs)

Marten's done a lot of thinking about being more decisive, but he hasn't really been any more decisive up until now.  Well, I suppose the one-night-stand thing was outside of his comfort zone, even if it was a failure.  Still, I wish he would apply it to his life beyond romance. 

Almond butter sounds delicious.

I've had really good gravy based on almond butter (in Northampton actually!) but it would suck as a butter substitute. 

I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter.  Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.

Earth Balance pretty much tastes just like butter.  At least I think so.  It's been 18 years since I've become vegan, so it's not like I remember butter all that well. 

This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.

To each their own.  I mean, I went through a period when I was first a vegetarian (I was one for four years before becoming a vegan) where I lived on veggie burgers.  Now I think they're gross.  I eat fake meat more than I'd like since my daughter likes soy nuggets, but for the most part I don't try it save for novelty.  Except for veggie beef type things - I frankly think they're disgusting.  I'll cook them for my wife, but no way will I eat them myself.  I'd much prefer to get my protein through straight-up seitan, tofu, or tempeh. 

Really though, if you're a vegan for ethical reasons, why wouldn't you feel comfortable with cruelty-free substitutes? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: qqemokitty on 07 Oct 2014, 10:58
OOOOMMMGGGGG IM SO HAPPPPYYYYY!

I've been reading QC for what seems like a million years but I don't think any storyline has kept me so on the edge of my seat and so damn happy when what I wanted to happen, happened. Like others, I signed up JUST to express my ridiculous level of SQUEE.

Please don't let this be Claire dreaming, or I will cry. >.>
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: billydaking on 07 Oct 2014, 10:59
But IMHO it's kind of offensive to say what he was looking to fill the hole was a woman.  It especially becomes clear if you think about the genders being flipped around - if Marten was a girl who was fluttering around aimlessly, and then a man completed her.  Marten's main issue is he's a full on grownup with no plan for the future.  He doesn't want to go to grad school, he doesn't seem interested in a real job, and basically has nothing but vague dreams of being a musician he doesn't try too hard on.  He's a reasonably smart dude with no ambition. 

Maybe Claire can give him the support he needs to actually, you know, stop acting like a boy and become a man.  But it would have been so much more rewarding to see Martin genuinely grow up while he was single than to do it under Claire's tutelage.  Sort of similar to how Faye did so much improvement of herself while being single before Angus ever came into the picture.


That's what I was seriously expecting from Martin anyway.  Becoming a grownup.  And that's why I'm a bit let down if, as people said, this is what Martin's new "decisiveness" boiled down to.


Going to be blunt...I'm just revolted in this way of thinking. Marten was not "looking for a hole to fill". That's not what happened here, and this an inhumane interpretation. It's not about being "completed" or about "decisiveness" .

Life throws you things, whether you're ready or not. For the past few years in the comic, Marten has been learning to deal with those curveballs, and more and more, he's been the one his friends have been coming to when they've got something going on. If you haven't noticed that change, that's unfortunate, because it's one of the best things of the comic these days. Claire's reveal of her feelings for Marten was the latest thing, probably the most important thing, and he reacted in a way that's far more grownup and mature than any of the other characters have shown so far in similar situations.

Yeah, Marten still hasn't figured out what to do with his life. Got news for you....the vast majority of people never do. How many people actually use their college degree? How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s? Most drift from job to job finding something we enjoy doing that pays the bills and buys a little freedom. It's what we actually do in the time we have and with the people we're given that makes our life and leaves our memory. You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 07 Oct 2014, 11:02
My wife is 43.  I don't think you can't be hot at that age, or youthful.   :psyduck:  But I think the wrinkles around Clairemom's eyes are supposed to convey a somewhat older status.  Might be a tad younger than Martin's Mom at 56, but not much. 

I've been assuming that Claire's mom is roughly twice Claire's age, which would make her 48, more or less. And incidentally the same age as my wife.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Oct 2014, 11:07
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!
"She don't use jelly"

(http://legendariummedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/watching_avengers_i_understood_a_gif_reference-88347.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AliceGroove on 07 Oct 2014, 11:10
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Oct 2014, 11:11
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.

You must be the first user to have a surname related to the new comic series, and you have also simultaneously discovered the coolest one that will ever exist related to it. Kudos, mu'fucka.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AliceGroove on 07 Oct 2014, 11:22
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.

You must be the first user to have a surname related to the new comic series, and you have also simultaneously discovered the coolest one that will ever exist related to it. Kudos, mu'fucka.

Xie xie. I figured with the timing of my arrival I could either go the Claire-Marten squee-factory route, or jump in the deep-end with a reference to Jeph's new venture.

Hopefully it catches on and we can look forward to more wind-turbine related dramatics in the future. I'm sure they'll help keep the new comic cool.  :claireface:

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/aa/aae4573dfacb2214759a8ebd9c5d0f9180276d2a774b93ac3324a024803ba0f9.jpg)

...or....not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 07 Oct 2014, 11:28
Second post on the forums and it has a pun in it?  You'll fit right in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Oct 2014, 11:41
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.

You must be the first user to have a surname related to the new comic series, and you have also simultaneously discovered the coolest one that will ever exist related to it. Kudos, mu'fucka.

Xie xie. I figured with the timing of my arrival I could either go the Claire-Marten squee-factory route, or jump in the deep-end with a reference to Jeph's new venture.

Hopefully it catches on and we can look forward to more wind-turbine related dramatics in the future. I'm sure they'll help keep the new comic cool.  :claireface:

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/aa/aae4573dfacb2214759a8ebd9c5d0f9180276d2a774b93ac3324a024803ba0f9.jpg)

...or....not.

You can definitely stay.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 07 Oct 2014, 11:44
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!

At my local vegan joint, they'd just bring you scrambled tofu and some god-awful soy-based abomination that they spray-painted pink in the prep room.

I like to eat vegan, but I HATE attempts at having items comparable to traditional animal-flesh fare. They're not making veganism better, they're just making bacon & eggs shitty.

Usually fake meat from a store is horrid  and I avoid it with thee notable exception being Soyrizo.  If you like the Mexican Chorizo, this stuff is just about indistinguishable from what I used eat.  But most of the fake meat is just depressing.

Another exception is The Chicago Diner.  I can personally vouch that the Country Fried Steak is amazing and delicious.  I almost applied for the dishwasher job just to get my foot in the door there.  150 miles is a reasonable commute right?

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 07 Oct 2014, 11:47
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"

Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14

More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious.

Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again

Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?

No one, that's who.

I have hard opinions on things.
I think it follows the peanut butter trend. Probably they use butter as a word for a texture firmer than cream.

And not just nuts.  Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/p960x960/10571926_10153317057411002_2274138618273430610_o.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 07 Oct 2014, 11:51
Moderator Comment Regarding a removed post:
Thanks to a certain four people (you know who you are) - my phone was buzzing with report mails.
Thanks everyone else for not engaging.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 07 Oct 2014, 12:00
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!

Genius!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 07 Oct 2014, 12:02
Except it wouldn't actually be calorie free...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 07 Oct 2014, 12:03
Veggie burgers are not fake meat. Round is not a meat shape, it is a food shape.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 12:12
Veggie burgers are not fake meat. Round is not a meat shape, it is a food shape.

I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.

I was talking more about sausages and bacon made to actually look like sausage links (not just just the tube of crumbly protein bits) and bacon strips. Or seitan "steak" strips. The kind of vegan food you find at a store like Safeway that has no clue what it's doing and, I imagine falls prey to distributors from crappy outfits like Morningstar Farms.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 07 Oct 2014, 12:20
It really depends on whether or not they are trying to approximate the texture and taste of some meat product. I've had some awesome veggie burgers... and those who tried to be beef-like that were just nasty. But I've also had "beef" crumbles that were really good to replace meat in things like tacos or  chili. I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but I do try to keep a more sensible, healthier diet when I can. The idea of making vegan products look and taste like meat just seems to be missing the mark. You aren't going to trick people into eating your stuff if they want to eat meat. And it's of limited comfort to provide fake meat to those who would rather be eating meat but for whatever reason can't or won't. Embrace the diversity and flavors of your product, don't try to mask them as something else...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 12:26
It really depends on whether or not they are trying to approximate the texture and taste of some meat product. I've had some awesome veggie burgers... and those who tried to be beef-like that were just nasty. But I've also had "beef" crumbles that were really good to replace meat in things like tacos or  chili. I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but I do try to keep a more sensible, healthier diet when I can. The idea of making vegan products look and taste like meat just seems to be missing the mark. You aren't going to trick people into eating your stuff if they want to eat meat. And it's of limited comfort to provide fake meat to those who would rather be eating meat but for whatever reason can't or won't. Embrace the diversity and flavors of your product, don't try to mask them as something else...

Totally. And for those who are doing it for healthy eating purposes, it's not really worth the trouble; that stuff is crammed full of preservatives and artificial crap. I was a vegetarian for several years because I was in the midst of training for some high-endurance activities and was convinced I'd be better of eliminating meat. I'm now convinced that eating whole foods (note the lowercase) is way more important than arbitrarily eliminating meat if you're still going to eat processed stuff. I eat meat like three times a week now, and it's just right for me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 07 Oct 2014, 12:33
I don't understand why veggie burgers are a grey area for you. A round patty shape is a very efficient way of cooking protein, whether that's meat-derived protein or pulse-derived protein. I make the World's Most Delicious Vegan Burgers with bulgur wheat, beans and mushrooms, and they are round to go inside bread buns (but if I don't have round bread, then I could make them rectangular to go in between slices of rectangular bread, I guess).

I absolutely agree with you about the stuff that is deliberately made to be as close as possible to looking and tasting like actual meat, but as a result is packed full of artificial rubbish. The fact is, though, that we live in societies which base their diet around meat, and often it is easier to vegetarianise/veganise a recipe by buying something that is as close as possible to the meat in the ingredient list. It takes creativity to decide what element of that meat ingredient (texture, flavour, nutritional makeup, appearance etc) you want to retain and find a real food alternative. Sometimes it's easier to grab a bag of soya mince.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 07 Oct 2014, 12:34
Q: what's more difficult to draw than hands?
A: a kiss.

It looks like neither of them are tilting their head sideways! Either their noses permeate each other, or their lips aren't touching!
(Yes, I know, it's difficult to miss these important details when you're busy squeeeeeing. I don't blame you.)

I like to imagine that claire is just new at this, and with her eyes closed, she's completely missing his face and ends up on his shoulder. But nah, that'd ruin an otherwise beautiful moment.
(Then again, I also really really like to read #2804 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2804) without the fourth panel. The look on his face in the third panel says it all: "I broke into your house and brought you pancakes!" ;))


Yeah. I like the arc. Wrt marten's character development, he has taken step after step, lesson after lesson to get where he is now. It was neither a sudden character change to get them to hook up, nor do I expect the development to stop after he got the girl. Jeph certainly has a plan, and I can only guess how much fun he had watching the community squirm over the last few strips. And squee today.

Some have said that Marten has been smoother than any human can be. Probably. And Claire was way less freaked out than she usually would. That's fine. For once, let Jeph and his characters and all the squeesquad have their one perfect fairy-tale moment. With all the things Jeph puts them through for the sake of the narrative, they deserve that.



Ah, whatever. I just may squee a little. All the cool kids are doing it. The ship's left port and it'll be an interesting voyage. Marten's all grown up and he finally knows what he wants in a woman. Claire is inexperienced, but she's a smart woman, and with all the soul-searching her transition has forced her to do, I think she's better prepared than anyone of us was for their first relationship. Everything else she will learn, and Marten's patience and understanding are just what she needs for that.
There are several indications that this relationship won't turn sexual anytime soon, which leaves more time for actual healthy interaction and bonding. It's important to get that done before the initial hormone-dominated everything-is-butterflys-phase ends[1].
As always, there are blocks along the road - her anxieties, his career - but none of them are dealbreaking, and they both seem ready to tackle them. They got together for all the right reasons, and if they do this right, it could last forever. Time (and Jeph) will tell.


[1] Without going into too much speculation, Marigold and Dale might have a problem there. If watching anime, playing WoW and having sex is all they do, that may yield a strong emotional bond, but not an intellectual one. A longterm relationship needs both, with the latter becoming more important the longer the relationship lasts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 07 Oct 2014, 12:40
Yoooo, has anyone speculated about the odd titles for the comics yet? Today's is 'Nose Grows Some' and tomorrow's is 'Hatch a Plan' or something like that. I can't work them out, anyone have any ideas about what they mean?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Barmymoo on 07 Oct 2014, 12:41
I was also puzzled about those. Could they be anagrams?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 07 Oct 2014, 12:43
'Nose Grows Some' is the final track on Tomorrow's Modern Boxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow's_Modern_Boxes). Dunno if it's relevant.

http://boulter.com/anagram/ Have at it
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 12:44
I think someone said it earlier but nose grows is a song title from a new album and hatching a plan makes sense. Marten was saying when stuff comes our way we will talk about it and figure it out
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 07 Oct 2014, 12:58

And not just nuts.  Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/p960x960/10571926_10153317057411002_2274138618273430610_o.jpg)

And pumpkin butter. Two of my favorite tastes of fall (especially on French toast, with gobs of butter).

Yeah. I like the arc. Wrt marten's character development, he has taken step after step, lesson after lesson to get where he is now. It was neither a sudden character change to get them to hook up, nor do I expect the development to stop after he got the girl. Jeph certainly has a plan, and I can only guess how much fun he had watching the community squirm over the last few strips. And squee today.

This. I think a lot of the back-and-forth about whether this is out of character for Marten, or happening too soon/too quickly comes down to a disagreement between some people taking the current story arc more or less in isolation (in which case, as I said before, sure it's drastic) versus looking at Marten's development over the (very) long haul.

Re: veggie burgers: I've had only a couple that were any good, though I keep trying. I'd just as soon have a good falafel, or just marinate and grill a portobello mushroom -- portobellos taste closer to meat than anything else that hasn't come off an animal, and you don't even have to process them or do much to them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 13:16
"I don't understand why veggie burgers are a grey area for you."

It's a vestige of the days when I only ate store-bought  veggie burgers and they would make them looks as close to burgers as possible, which usually meant they looked like college dining hall burgers. They would literally take some sort of blowtorch-device to put "grill marks" on them. The whole thing just screamed fake food because of the manufacturer's desire make it seem "real." Now that I make my own, whether from lentils and mushrooms or black beans and quinoa (and nutritional yeast, ALWAYS), it's not really such a gray area.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 07 Oct 2014, 13:22
Hmm: http://www.metrolyrics.com/nose-grows-some-lyrics-thom-yorke.html
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 07 Oct 2014, 13:52
Re: nose grows some:
it reminded me of: http://www.oocities.org/sunsetstrip/backstage/4183/me/DrSeuss.html

Re: Marten's smoothness
he's just getting really good rolls on charisma right now... he was kinda due

Re: ClaireMom's glasses
what happened to them?

Re: Moderators doing moderation
Mods rock... nice reaction time , Loki

Re: squee
Squee II Electric Squeegaloo: Keep on Squeein'
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 07 Oct 2014, 14:04

And not just nuts.  Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).
(click to show/hide)

And pumpkin butter. Two of my favorite tastes of fall (especially on French toast, with gobs of butter).


You're forgetting maple butter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Welu on 07 Oct 2014, 14:15
I'm a bit late it seems but

(http://mockeryoflife.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/jake.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Truec on 07 Oct 2014, 14:15
I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.

Because words have meaning, and people thinking they can just use a word any way they want to refer to things they are not are going to be the downfall of civilization.  Burger is short for hamburger, a hamburger is a patty of ground beef on a sandwich.

Mind you, your lentil-mushroom sandwich sounds pretty tasty, but it is not in any way a burger. 

Warning - while you were reading 12 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Seriously?  In the time it takes me to rant about words?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sapere on 07 Oct 2014, 14:19
I've been reading/lurking for forever and just had to sign up to weigh in on the events. Much good, much happy. :3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 07 Oct 2014, 14:25

And not just nuts.  Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).
(click to show/hide)

And pumpkin butter. Two of my favorite tastes of fall (especially on French toast, with gobs of butter).


You're forgetting maple butter.

I've neither had, nor heard of, maple butter. I Googled it, and realize that I must rectify that. :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 07 Oct 2014, 14:28
Steak, medium rare
2 Eggs, fried
2 Bacon
1 Pork Sausage
Coleslaw type Salad (with Tartare Sauce)
Chips (Fries, as you Visigoths from the States know them as)
2 slices Toast with Butter

Coffee - Large Flat White if you don't have the real stuff, Filter Coffee.


*Burp*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 14:33
Re: veggie burgers, a few weeks ago I had a black bean and chipotle burger at my favourite pub. I'd never had it before, but it sounded (and was) delicious. The addition of bacon made it even more so :parrot:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 14:52
But again, how many days ago in comic time was the Emily Kiss arc?  Maybe 2 weeks?  Possibly less?  Seems like a hell of a lot of growth in a short period of time, given the response was pretty much "classic Marten."

The flow of time in the QCverse often confuses me.  I must confess that I find this arc very resonant on an emotional level, and am definitely in the category of reader with a strong identification with the characters, which naturally affects how i 'read' Marten's responses - in that, he is acting in the way that I wish I might act in the same or a similar situation.

I can't agree with this more. I have been reading for over 8 years and I too strongly identify with Marten. When he and Dora broke up I felt like I was going through it myself. Because of this I have had some very mixed feelings about the current situation that I am still processing but I honestly think they make a very cute couple and I hope this works out for both of them. They deserve it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 14:53
I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.

Because words have meaning, and people thinking they can just use a word any way they want to refer to things they are not are going to be the downfall of civilization.  Burger is short for hamburger, a hamburger is a patty of ground beef on a sandwich.

Mind you, your lentil-mushroom sandwich sounds pretty tasty, but it is not in any way a burger. 

Warning - while you were reading 12 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Seriously?  In the time it takes me to rant about words?

Considering there are only 4 posts between my veggie burger explanation and your post here, I'm not sure how the 12-post notification is possible.

If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix. Unless you're a hardcore prescriptivist, I don't see any way around the argument that burger, in modern common usage, denotes malleable foodstuffs molded into a patty that is then cooked.

Also, as much as I like a good semantics argument, that wasn't really the issue. The issue is the contents of vegetarian food that aspire to look like meat, not their presentation. If someone rolled ground tempeh and pinto beans seasoned with cumin and chili powder into a sausage shape, awesome. But things that are stylized to look like meat but aren't meat, more often than not, are crap. That was more the discussion we were having (I think).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: no one special on 07 Oct 2014, 15:05
I just... I just don't get it.     :psyduck:

I don't see how Marten has fallen for Claire.  I don't see how they have any sort of special connection.  I mean, he tried to go with Faye, Dora, and Hanners first, and the only reason he invited her to the wedding was because she had a car. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2377)  They didn't have any moments at the wedding, or at the reception.  Even after the reception, at the moment where they supposedly first connect (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) - it's just a look/drunk cuddle.  A few comics later, they talk it out, and everything goes back to normal. 

Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"!  She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her? 

I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 15:58
I don't see how Marten has fallen for Claire.  I don't see how they have any sort of special connection. 
...
Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?

It amazes me how many different ways there are to read this arc - we each see it slightly - or very - differently, I guess.  I don't have any trouble at all seeing this as an organic development, as Marten has been changing over the years, and there seems to be enough information in the story to justify at least the beginnings of a relationship.  Where it goes from here is anybody's guess (and even Jeph might be surprised - there are other examples of characters running out of the control of their creators). 

I think the heart you are looking for is present, but it is subtle and easy to miss.  There is great depth in the body language of both characters in the last few strips - personally, I think this is some of the best work Jeph has ever done.

I hope you don't give up on it.  I'm sure there are more suprises to come :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 15:59
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.
It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 16:06
It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June.  Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once.  The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches.  Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.

Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee.  If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 16:06
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.
It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?

Exactly. We take hamburger to mean beef burger even though it's made from beef. Pork burgers do exist, but they must be denoted as such. That's why I qualified the discussion with "modern common usage." Regardless of etymology, ham- in this case is a prefix meaning it's a traditional burger made from the charred flesh of dead cows (as I believe Faye once put it). But burger is also open to a variety of other prefixes and modifiers.

Descriptivism, yo.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 16:07
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.
It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?

Cheeseburger Cheeseburger, no coke pepsi
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 07 Oct 2014, 16:08
Personally, I think it was always there.
-They hang out a lot at the library. 
-When Marten goes to CoD, he takes Claire.
-She comes to visit him at a popular hangout of his.
-She has stated that she feels comfortable with him.
-He always seems to look at her. (This might just be my opinion.)
-He asks her to come and hang out with him and his friends. And to Marten, his friends are his family, so this is a big deal. But he always treated Claire a little differently then his other friends, as well. (I don't know where I am going with this, so I'm gonna stop. I'm lazy.)

And I would go through the archives and find strips for each of these... but I am really lazy and that's a lot of comics to go through.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 16:09
I think it's important to note the weirdness of the forum right now: Discussions about one of the biggest developments in almost 3,000 strips are alternating with a conversation about the socio-linguistic subtleties of the word "hamburger," a topic we only landed on because of pancakes.

Best. Fan community. Ever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 16:11
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.
It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?

Exactly. We take hamburger to mean beef burger even though it's made from beef. Pork burgers do exist, but they must be denoted as such. That's why I qualified the discussion with "modern common usage." Regardless of etymology, ham- in this case is a prefix meaning it's a traditional burger made from the charred flesh of dead cows (as I believe Faye once put it). But burger is also open to a variety of other prefixes and modifiers.

Descriptivism, yo.
No, that's not what I was saying. Hamburger=burger is what I was saying. If you just say "burger" without a modifier, beef burger is implied just as strongly as "hamburger" without modifiers. You could call a veggie burger a veggie hamburger, but that's unwieldy so nobody does.

Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 16:13
Quote
Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.

Yes.  But then, I'm from Florida, where it's not unheard of to have a bacon cheeseburger with a Krispy Kreme donut as the bun.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 07 Oct 2014, 16:13
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.
It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?

Yeah, but the english language has a lot of flexibility behind the rules of how it works. Burger can also mean cheeseburger, because life without cheese is meaningless. Another example: -gate as a suffix means a scandal, but there's not like some rule that it has to take place at some old hotel just because the original did.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 16:13
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.
It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?

Exactly. We take hamburger to mean beef burger even though it's made from beef. Pork burgers do exist, but they must be denoted as such. That's why I qualified the discussion with "modern common usage." Regardless of etymology, ham- in this case is a prefix meaning it's a traditional burger made from the charred flesh of dead cows (as I believe Faye once put it). But burger is also open to a variety of other prefixes and modifiers.

Descriptivism, yo.
No, that's not what I was saying. Hamburger=burger is what I was saying. If you just say "burger" without a modifier, beef burger is implied just as strongly as "hamburger" without modifiers. You could call a veggie burger a veggie hamburger, but that's unwieldy so nobody does.

Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.

According to the law of Weird Food Quantum Mechanics, yes, your thinking of that burger option has caused it to exist.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 16:15
You are wrong in two points.
Yes, woman past 44 can get pregnenant. The chances are smaller but it is not even close to "cannot get" the main concern is on genetic problems like down's syndrome.

And I don't think Claire's mom look that old, she looks pretty youthful (and hot)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/surrogate-mother-61-gives-birth-to-her-grandson/blogEntry?id=17151493&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.br%2F

I said via their own eggs.  The woman in the linked article carried her daughter's pregnancy to term. 

My wife is 43.  I don't think you can't be hot at that age, or youthful.   :psyduck:  But I think the wrinkles around Clairemom's eyes are supposed to convey a somewhat older status.  Might be a tad younger than Martin's Mom at 56, but not much.
That was a link about surrogate mother. But if you want a link about older mothers fine.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50

Anyway none of these prove anything because they are just anetoctal evidence. Probably the point you are trying to make is that a woman doesn't produce eggs after menopause and that is correct but you got it wrong at the age, menopause usually occurs between 45 and 55 and just stepping on the 45 mark doesn't makes women stop producingceggs. So considering that Claire's mom is between 42~48 years old probably she is still fertile. Claire could ask her mom to get some eggs frozen for latter use just in case.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 16:15
Quote
Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.

Yes.  But then, I'm from Florida, where it's not unheard of to have a bacon cheeseburger with a Krispy Kreme donut as the bun.
The Luther?

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 07 Oct 2014, 16:15
Although, under the current usage, the correct name for the Watergate scandal would actually be Watergategate, as Watergate would be a scandal about water, not a scandal involving the Watergate complex.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 07 Oct 2014, 16:17
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Congrats, Sir/Madam. I registered an account just to join the conversation because of you.

Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest? It's happened a couple of times to me. Sometimes it's cause the friendship to fall apart, (I hope that's not what's going to happen here.) and sometimes it's just been a thing that runs it's natural course and then we ended it as friends. These things happen, and in reading back to the wedding arc, that's what I see here. You have two people that are friends and are comfortable around each other. Marten getting a little tipsy and playing with Claire's hair is something I could see myself doing to a friend, and when I woke up the next morning, if I remembered there being a spark of something there from the other person, I'd evaluate my feelings.

Marten having a whole speech ready to give Claire seems like something he'd have been thinking about since he got up. Maybe on his way to the diner/Claire's house. I'd be willing to bet that by the time he was at her dinner table, he had already made up his mind about how he felt about her. I know I would have by that point. These are all really reasonable conclusions. While there's a part of me that would have liked to see these thought processes and events happen in comic, I'm honestly more glad that we just skipped the crap and cut to the good stuff.

Also: *ahem* Squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 16:18
Quote
The Luther?

Indeed!  Damn, didn't know it'd become famous enough for the Boondocks!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 16:18
Although, under the current usage, the correct name for the Watergate scandal would actually be Watergategate, as Watergate would be a scandal about water, not a scandal involving the Watergate complex.
Ugh, I fucking hate that "-gate" became an acceptable suffix for precisely that reason.

Mooski, that episode's from a few years back. It's also how I learned about the concept of the itis (well, that name at least).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 16:23
Yeah, I'm just now realizing that I first heard about the thing in 1994, a few months after I'd moved to Florida. 

I'm further realizing that was 20 years ago.  Gonna have some emergency wine now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 07 Oct 2014, 16:25
Although, under the current usage, the correct name for the Watergate scandal would actually be Watergategate, as Watergate would be a scandal about water, not a scandal involving the Watergate complex.
Ugh, I fucking hate that "-gate" became an acceptable suffix for precisely that reason.

Mooski, that episode's from a few years back. It's also how I learned about the concept of the itis (well, that name at least).

Agreed. The more that two-bit journalists perpetuate that unfortunate linguistic contortion, the more people are going to think -gate just literally means scandal. Bluh.

Also: I just realized that I've now used the adjective "linguistic" far too many times in the past few hours. Mostly to discuss burgers. I'm either a pretentious twit or have had one too many tasty IPAs (woohoo, Tuesday niiiight!!!) for a person who's been awake since 3 AM EST, and am letting work stuff bleed into what should be leisure stuff.

But to address the comic:

Wait for it...

Squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 16:28
Quote
Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.

I did it once wrapped in tapioca pancake. Well, I don't really think Tapioca pancake is really a pancake, wikipedia description say flat bread or grainy pancake but I think it is closer to grilled mochi.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kwami42 on 07 Oct 2014, 16:45
Hatch the Plan is a song title from the Andy Stott album Luxury Problems, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gespenst on 07 Oct 2014, 16:50
AHH! Things are happening! Things I like! I hope they keep happening!

I can't stop shouting! I hope this resolves itself soon!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: swapna on 07 Oct 2014, 16:51
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 16:56
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

Because Claire is moe.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 07 Oct 2014, 16:59
Yo! So did you hear about the fast food joint who had traces of pork in their vegan patties? Press refers to the incident as the ham veggy burger gate. :roll:

I don't see how Marten has fallen for Claire.  I don't see how they have any sort of special connection.  I mean, he tried to go with Faye, Dora, and Hanners first, and the only reason he invited her to the wedding was because she had a car. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2377)
She may have offered the ride as a thanks for the treatment at the party, or because she liked the idea of spending time with him, or maybe she was just bored. Either way, I doubt he accepted just because of the car - Claire just offered a ride, and he invited her to the wedding, and it's not hard to imagine that he really preferred her company over going alone.
The wedding strengthened their friendship. Time spent together, new experiences gained together. Besides the on-panel events, #2405 references quite a few off-panel events as well.

The cuddle (and its aftermath) may look like "everything went back to normal", but it did two things. First, it taught them that they can be honest with each other and work through issues. That alone is something he and Faye didn't have for a very long time, and even with Dora "working through issues" involved a lot of shouting and drama. Second, I think it forced both of them to consider whether there was more than friendship. Of course, neither dared act on it, but that wasn't "back to normal".

I'd consider them good friends at that time. They like each other, they respect each other, they trust each other (both having earned that trust), and they care for each other. Can you follow so far?


Why is Claire the right woman for him? I think it's for the same reason he's the right man for her: because he has experienced that, around her, he can just be himself. Faye used to beat him when he wasn't careful; Dora used to flip out when he looked the wrong way or said something stupid, he cannot even be open to Steve about certain issues without being mocked. Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.

So it starts with feeling comfortable around each other. Then you miss her, when she's not there. And slowly you start to realize that there are feelings, that you cannot ignore them, and that you want to act on them. It's a slow process (especially with Marten's usual processing speed), which is why it's difficult to point to a single comic and say: "There it began!". If you've never had it happen to you, it may be difficult to understand. But it happens.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 07 Oct 2014, 17:08
Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.
Counterargument on that one:
Quote from: Claire
Nice one, Cicero. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2403)

Granted, it is quite rare, but it does happen.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 17:18
Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.
Counterargument on that one:
Quote from: Claire
Nice one, Cicero. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2403)

Granted, it is quite rare, but it does happen.

It would be really dull if she was perfect ;-)  I'm surely reading too much into things here, but I've always seen her expression in that panel as slightly proprietorial...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 17:20
Quote
I'm surely reading too much into things here, but I've always seen her expression in that panel as slightly proprietorial...

If you are, you're not alone.  Panel three here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431) is the same for me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 07 Oct 2014, 17:21
Ah, c'mon, that was just a gentle josh. Laughing with, not at. It's quite Claire to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 17:26
Panel three here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431) is the same for me.

Hell yeah!  I'd forgotten that.  She looks kinda hungry in that one, too ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 07 Oct 2014, 17:33
 Why am I checking the main page? I know what happens!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 17:35
Why am I checking the main page? I know what happens!

Potential hope there is a double upload by mistake?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zwammy on 07 Oct 2014, 17:37
Ah, c'mon, that was just a gentle josh. Laughing with, not at. It's quite Claire to me.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 17:37
Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.
Counterargument on that one:
Quote from: Claire
Nice one, Cicero. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2403)

Granted, it is quite rare, but it does happen.

I would not qualify that as "making fun". That's barely a quip to acknowledge his fumble.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 17:42
Why am I checking the main page? I know what happens!

Conditioning  :wink:  I'm doing it too...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 17:48
Honestly, I usually find out from you guys that there's a new comic :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 07 Oct 2014, 17:55
I keep trying to type in 2809, but it keeps not working.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: No_Dragons_Here on 07 Oct 2014, 17:57
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: treyhawk on 07 Oct 2014, 17:58
Have just seen 2807, have not yet seen 2808.  Yea for Marten and Claire, but no squee.  I'm reserving the squee for the impossible:  Marten-Hannelore.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 17:59
Even though there can be no surprises today (really?) 2808 was/is a delightful and tremendoulsy significant entry :-)  Also, seeing it before I saw 2807, I thought "damn, Jeph is really getting the hang of jumping ahead and expecting the readers to keep up".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: brew on 07 Oct 2014, 18:05

Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"!  She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her?

I feel similarly. Not that I don't think it could've happened eventually, but we just had this thing about Emily where he says he wouldn't want to date an intern (I know it's an excuse, but still, he said it out loud), and then immediately this happens? What was even the point of the Emily arc?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 07 Oct 2014, 18:07
Quote
What was even the point of the Emily arc?

Story's still in progress.  Who knows?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 18:08

Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"!  She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her?

I feel similarly. Not that I don't think it could've happened eventually, but we just had this thing about Emily where he says he wouldn't want to date an intern (I know it's an excuse, but still, he said it out loud), and then immediately this happens? What was even the point of the Emily arc?

To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 07 Oct 2014, 18:09
Have just seen 2807, have not yet seen 2808.  Yea for Marten and Claire, but no squee.  I'm reserving the squee for the impossible:  Marten-Hannelore.

"Because of you I've finally figured out what I want to do with my life, the man I want to be."

"Hannelore, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with me, Marten Reed. Fireman."

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 18:12
To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.

Are we reading the same comic?  That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: No_Dragons_Here on 07 Oct 2014, 18:14

"Because of you I've finally figured out what I want to do with my life, the man I want to be."

"Hannelore, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with me, Marten Reed. Fireman."

(click to show/hide)

With Marten Reed on the job, no burning building will ever be safe!

...

...

...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 18:20
Welp 2808 is up and no mistake 2809 good night folks
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 18:21
To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.

Are we reading the same comic?  That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.

Doesn't means that conflicts doesn't happen
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1799

Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 18:25
Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.

That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean).  I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 18:28
Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.

That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean).  I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.

I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 07 Oct 2014, 18:30
Damn, there wasn't a new Questionablecontentgate comic today... Well, there was, but it was not new since yesterday... :psyduck:

What the hell, I'll just keep squeeeeeeeeeeeeeing and reading the forums.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Penquin47 on 07 Oct 2014, 18:33
Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.

That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean).  I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.

I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.

While emotional pain is part of the comic, it feels wrong for Jeph to write a story where the point is to crush a character.  "The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten, the Dora/Marten breakup either, Sven cheating on Faye wasn't about hurting Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 18:35
I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.

Yes, I know what you mean - I just can't see that happening to someone as defenceless as Emily (seemingly, and perhaps she only seems so to me - mostly basing this on her reaction to 'give peas a chance').
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mikmaxs on 07 Oct 2014, 18:36
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I feel similarly. While I do ship the two of them, it doesn't feel right that they're actually *together*. (At least, not at this point.) I've slowly been waning on QC in general (Which sucks, because it's my No3 Webcomic behind XKCD and Dumbing Of Age) mainly because I feel like there hasn't been any natural drama or conflict in the past few hundred comics. It's like I'm watching season 6 of House: We've got about triple the cast, all of the original arcs have been finished for years, and the characters are so developed that they're barely even the same people anymore. All the new conflict feels kind of forced-in because it either has to come as a surprise within the cast (IE Angus wants to live somewhere else and work on a talk show, something we didn't find out until he'd been around for over a thousand comics,) or else as a random external force that didn't exist until recently.

I really don't know what could be done about this, it's just a problem that exists with works that last this long. The best fix I've seen is to slowly add new characters with their own problems, but that only works for so long before you've got a replacement set of main characters, who are stepping in for your FIRST set of replacement main characters. Heck, we've got three characters permanently written out of QC at this point, and that's not mentioned the copious characters who barely ever show up anymore. (Raven, Steve, Cosette, Wil, Penelope... Even the smaller Anthro-PCs, Pintsize and Winslow, haven't really made noteworthy appearances as of late.)

It just doesn't feel like I'm reading the same comic anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 18:37
"The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten
I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 18:37
While emotional pain is part of the comic, it feels wrong for Jeph to write a story where the point is to crush a character.  "The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten, the Dora/Marten breakup either, Sven cheating on Faye wasn't about hurting Faye.

Yes, thank you, this is what I was thinking but couldn't express properly :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 07 Oct 2014, 18:51
Usually I read the whole thread before commenting, but tl,dr. And is there such a thing as a squee filter?

Next comic: Angus is offered a minor part on a trial basis. Further uncertainty ensues...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Oct 2014, 18:54
I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.
+1 Insightful. You expressed my thoughts better than even I could.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TheCollector on 07 Oct 2014, 19:10
It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June.  Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once.  The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches.  Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.

Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee.  If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.

I have to back this up completely. I mean, I have no experiance with it in real life, but I can't name the number of times when a character in something I never looked twice at did one simple thing that made me fall in love with them out of the blue, some of whom I hated before hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mojo on 07 Oct 2014, 19:11
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm kind of in this group too.  There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what.  I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that.  Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character.  He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain.  This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.

Character growth?  Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 19:15
I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.

Yes, I know what you mean - I just can't see that happening to someone as defenceless as Emily (seemingly, and perhaps she only seems so to me - mostly basing this on her reaction to 'give peas a chance').

Did Marten ever did something to deserve all the crap he got? There doesn't need to be a reason to why things don't work out for some people. She liked someone but this someone ends up with her friend.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 07 Oct 2014, 19:21
Nope, no matter how many times I look at it Claire's faces are just so adorable.  That is what pure, unadulterated happiness looks like.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 07 Oct 2014, 19:24
It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June.  Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once.  The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches.  Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.

Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee.  If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.

Definitely part of it. There are things I'm seeing lately in-comic that remind me of things that have happened in my own life. Sometimes it's not a concrete chain of events to get you from friends or strangers to lovers. Sometimes there's nothing that's rational about it, and trying to rationalize it kinda misses the point of it. Sure, it'd make a lousy detective story, but when it happens... damn.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 07 Oct 2014, 19:24
Going to be blunt...I'm just revolted in this way of thinking. Marten was not "looking for a hole to fill". That's not what happened here, and this an inhumane interpretation. It's not about being "completed" or about "decisiveness"

Life throws you things, whether you're ready or not. For the past few years in the comic, Marten has been learning to deal with those curveballs, and more and more, he's been the one his friends have been coming to when they've got something going on. If you haven't noticed that change, that's unfortunate, because it's one of the best things of the comic these days. Claire's reveal of her feelings for Marten was the latest thing, probably the most important thing, and he reacted in a way that's far more grownup and mature than any of the other characters have shown so far in similar situations.

Yeah, Marten still hasn't figured out what to do with his life. Got news for you....the vast majority of people never do. How many people actually use their college degree? How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s? Most drift from job to job finding something we enjoy doing that pays the bills and buys a little freedom. It's what we actually do in the time we have and with the people we're given that makes our life and leaves our memory. You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.

I honestly don't think I've seen the same level of development in Marten as much of the cast.  I mean as I said, Faye kept true to herself but dealt with her trust issues and fucked-uppedness quite well.  Hell, up until Jeph decided to make him into a dick again, I loved where Sven was going in terms of development - his redemption arc seemed like a real thing, and his (platonic) date with Hanners was so cute. 

What's helped Marten over time to become the person who people go to with problems is that he developed friends he had no romantic interest in (besides Steve).  In the early comics there was really no one for him to talk to but Faye and Dora.  Then he got Hanners, and then Tai.  Tai especially was important, because she was for a long time (like Steve) the only one who was mainly a friend of Marten, and not a friend of "the gang" with Marten as a part of it. 

I've been assuming that Claire's mom is roughly twice Claire's age, which would make her 48, more or less. And incidentally the same age as my wife.

I dunno, 24 seems young to have kids these days.  Hell, it even seems a little young for someone college educated (which I'm guessing Claire's mom is) to have kids at in 1990. 

[1] Without going into too much speculation, Marigold and Dale might have a problem there. If watching anime, playing WoW and having sex is all they do, that may yield a strong emotional bond, but not an intellectual one. A longterm relationship needs both, with the latter becoming more important the longer the relationship lasts.

Honestly, I think Marigold is an awful character with no redeeming qualities.  She's self-absorbed, not funny, and oddly stupid for someone who knows a lot about computers.  Dale is way too good for her. 

I forsee the relationship drama to happen with Faye and Angus though.  I'll bet Angus gets the job in NYC.  Faye says it's okay for him to go.  But then one of two things happen.

1.  She preemptively breaks up with him
2.  She gets lonely and somehow ends up screwing Sven when drunk.  Which really makes her hate herself. 

Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest? It's happened a couple of times to me. Sometimes it's cause the friendship to fall apart, (I hope that's not what's going to happen here.) and sometimes it's just been a thing that runs it's natural course and then we ended it as friends. These things happen, and in reading back to the wedding arc, that's what I see here. You have two people that are friends and are comfortable around each other. Marten getting a little tipsy and playing with Claire's hair is something I could see myself doing to a friend, and when I woke up the next morning, if I remembered there being a spark of something there from the other person, I'd evaluate my feelings.

Back when I was in high school and college, I had plenty of friendships which over a period of weeks to months, turned into infatuations.  Arguably I was in love with some of them.  Tha said, none of them ever loved me back, and in each case I pissed away most of a year pining away for them only to get shot down.  By the time I was 23, and still a virgin, I decided to try dating instead of hoping my female friends would love me back.  Lost the V quick, and in a few more years of casual dating/fucking around/short term relationships I finally found someone to marry.  Someone who I loved with all my heart based upon the trust and respect that grew between us, but for whom I never felt that butterflies in stomach crap. 

So yeah, nothing about this sort of scenario makes me squee.  There's nothing about it I could relate to.  Not like the Martin/Faye dynamic back in the day, which really spoke to me, because that's pretty much what my experience with women was like a few years before the comic started. 

Maybe romance is't for suckers, but I certainly saw no reason to believe in it in life personally.  Real love is a lot of hard work. 

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Oct 2014, 19:28
How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s?

At age 10, in 1968, there were a number of goals I set for myself.

OK, that's probably unusual. But along the way, I've done so much more as well.

Quote
You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.
While I don't think he was portrayed that badly, you have it right. He's one of the good guys.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Carl-E on 07 Oct 2014, 19:30
There was this girl when I was in college, about 2 years younger than me.  She was still in high school when we first met.  We were both involved with the SCA, an historical re-enactment group focused on the middle ages.  We both played music, singing together (we know several of he same esoteric pieces), and generally had a good time in each other's company.  She had a boyfriend with whom she was serious, and I was engaged. 

A few years went by - the engagement ended, and I had and had broken up with another girlfriend.  Her boyfriend went away after graduation, and she'd been seeing a couple of other guys casually.  We talked all the time, about each other's love life, our friends, everything - we were good friends. 

One evening I got a call.  It was her 19th birthday, and her parents had stopped by basically to disown her, since she was not going to school and "doing something" with her life.  She was asked not to come home to see any of her younger siblings (her stepmom was a real dick).  Her roommate had just left town, she was short on the rent and didn't even have a TV anymore to distract her from her troubles.  I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway.  I visited daily to make sure she was alright.  A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat. 

She made me spaghetti. 

My laundry basket never made it back to my house.  It just... felt right.  It was sudden, and surprising to both of us.  I let my lease go, and moved in. 

Two years later, we were married.  That was in 1986.  We've had issues, and ups and downs.  But we're still best friends. 

It happens.  Just like this.  One minute, you're sitting beside each other on a couch watching TV, waiting for the dryer, and the next you're in each other's arms, and never going back. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 07 Oct 2014, 19:33
Back when I was in high school and college, I had plenty of friendships which over a period of weeks to months, turned into infatuations.  Arguably I was in love with some of them.  Tha said, none of them ever loved me back, and in each case I pissed away most of a year pining away for them only to get shot down.  By the time I was 23, and still a virgin, I decided to try dating instead of hoping my female friends would love me back.  Lost the V quick, and in a few more years of casual dating/fucking around/short term relationships I finally found someone to marry.  Someone who I loved with all my heart based upon the trust and respect that grew between us, but for whom I never felt that butterflies in stomach crap. 

So yeah, nothing about this sort of scenario makes me squee.  There's nothing about it I could relate to.  Not like the Martin/Faye dynamic back in the day, which really spoke to me, because that's pretty much what my experience with women was like a few years before the comic started. 

Maybe romance is't for suckers, but I certainly saw no reason to believe in it in life personally.  Real love is a lot of hard work. 

True love is hard work, but falling in love is super easy. Any little thing with any person can trigger it. Maybe that's what we've just witnessed. I'm a hopeless romantic and it's one of the things that made my wife fall for me in the first place.  Give Claireten a chance. They've got the easy part done, now comes the hard part of making it work.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AliceGroove on 07 Oct 2014, 19:35
While I'd agree that Marten vacillating on the subject of Claire would be more consistent with the character as he's been written... in recent months we've seen him grow quite a bit (specifically realizing that the one-night stand version of life wasn't what he was looking for) and he's exactly the type of person who wouldn't freak out over something like the object of his affection being trans. With his... ahem... "non-traditional" familial background, closeness with his bi ex (and her GF) and the ease with which he accepted Claire back in 2323, this seems (to this observer) as something he'd have less difficulty with than the 'average' schmoe. I always expect Marten to freak over minutiae... but he seems to come through when things get real. 

I genuinely feel for folks who see this as 'abrupt' or 'fanserviced'. Not in a condescending way, mind you, but honestly. I've only been a devoted reader of QC since around the introduction of Marigold. I can't speak to the waves of characters you've lost or seen pushed to the sidelines to make way for the current arcs... especially if you felt heavily invested in those. But such is the way of SOL webcomics. I've been an avid GWS reader forever... and the sidelineing of several of my favorite characters there has me grumpy.

I disagree (despite my propensity for Squee-ing) for the following reasons:

1.) Claire's been around for 600+ strips... about 20% of the total run of the strip....
2.) Claire's non-cis gender identity has been known (to the audience) for almost 500 strips (about 17%)
3.) Claire and Marten have shown chemistry on and off (IMO) since the Wedding Arc (400ish strips... about 14%)
... all told that (from my vantage) speaks against any 'sudden' arguments.

4.) While there's a large portion of the fanbase that's been heavily lobbying for this pairing - its not as though Jeph gives in with any frequency. The sheer volume of Hannelore-related shipping he's fought against should lend credence to his unwillingness to give in to popular demand.

All that said... while the Claire/Marten ship is sailing... but that doesn't mean smooth seas lie ahead. Marten's words the past two strips have been golden... (A+, in fact) but that doesn't mean a cisgendered man with no experience dating a transwoman is going to be a sheet cake made of victory and talking owls [line stolen... I'm not that witty]. And while we have our romcom dashing moment, our profession of love (or 'like' as it were)... the honeymoon stage will end... probably rapidly. Claire is far from perfect... she's jealous, jumps to conclusions faster than you can lay down the mat... and her inexperience with relationships should be a wonderful well from which to draw from. And even if Marten's recent turn indicates real growth... that's great (Yay character development!)... but I wouldn't put a re-lapse into 'Normal Marten Behavior' past him.

In any case I'm looking forward to see how it turns out. The groundwork has been laid, but the future could be very un-Clair.  :claireface: [Turrible]


Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Oct 2014, 19:36
I think the heart you are looking for is present, but it is subtle and easy to miss.  There is great depth in the body language of both characters in the last few strips - personally, I think this is some of the best work Jeph has ever done
Some is so unsubtle, I can't believe others haven't commented on it. Just look at pupil size for goodness' sake.
Or maybe it takes someone who is/was mildly Aspergic so once had to consciously look for such cues rather than instinctively process them to notice.

Jeph is good. I thought he was laying it on a bit thick, but obviously not if so few people see it and appreciate it. He's good. Really good.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Estron on 07 Oct 2014, 19:47
I was one of the early ones last night who saw both 2807 and 2808 last night.  And yet, I automatically start thinking about QC asround this time every evening and -- oh, yeah -- been there, seen that, saved the image.    :-(
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 07 Oct 2014, 19:49

I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.

She's snappier than Penelope. Claire's humor is more upbeat puns and prank-snark where Penelope is more dead-pan snark and curmudgeon grumble.
Claire's more expressive.

Also she has red-hair. Red hair.

Red hair is a deal maker.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 07 Oct 2014, 19:53
One thing more on the Claire and Marten relationship development is that she, more than the other interns has more of a friendship with Faye.
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Oct 2014, 19:54
I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway.  I visited daily to make sure she was alright.  A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat. 

She made me spaghetti. 

My laundry basket never made it back to my house.  It just... felt right.  It was sudden, and surprising to both of us.  I let my lease go, and moved in. 

Two years later, we were married.  That was in 1986.  We've had issues, and ups and downs.  But we're still best friends.
Squee!
Pancakes...spaghetti... same diff.

(My AoA is from AS XVII BTW...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 19:55

I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.

She's snappier than Penelope. Claire's humor is more upbeat puns and prank-snark where Penelope is more dead-pan snark and curmudgeon grumble.
Claire's more expressive.

Also she has red-hair. Red hair.

Red hair is a deal maker.

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: fire n ice on 07 Oct 2014, 19:57
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm kind of in this group too.  There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what.  I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that.  Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character.  He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain.  This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.

Character growth?  Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.

While I do agree on the somewhat suddenness of Marten's character development (not that I'm complaining), my wife and I had very similar beginnings to our relationship (down to her also being a redhead), so let me try to give you a different perspective.

We had been close friends for about 5 years, never really showed any romantic interest in each other (although there was attraction).  Then one day, it just kinda happened.  Couldn't tell you exactly what day it was (neither one of us can pin down the date we were officially dating), we were just all of a sudden spending most of our free time together.  Next thing you know, there's a ring on her finger, then a wedding, then a daughter.  Neither one of us planned this or asked each other out.  We both just decided on our own to just go with it and see what happened.

The point I'm trying to make is, love comes in different forms, and the feelings can be hard to detect (at least at first).  You just know you have this subtle urge to be around this person and learn everything you can about them.  As for us, we're not really romantic people.  But we DO both get to spend every day with our best friend for the rest of our lives, and we're both perfectly content with that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 07 Oct 2014, 20:11

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 07 Oct 2014, 20:17
True love is hard work, but falling in love is super easy. Any little thing with any person can trigger it. Maybe that's what we've just witnessed. I'm a hopeless romantic and it's one of the things that made my wife fall for me in the first place.  Give Claireten a chance. They've got the easy part done, now comes the hard part of making it work.

I guess I disagree with you pretty strongly.  I didn't love any of my girlfriends, although I liked them just fine.  Hell, I didn't fall head over heels for my wife, I just slowly realized over a year plus of being together that there was no word to describe what I felt but love. 

That obsessive, butterflies in the stomach feeling you get about someone though?  That never led me to any good places, not even once.  As I said, when I was young, I would fall in love with female friends, then get the nice guy talk.  Or fall in love with women from online.  So I made it a rule not to consider my friends as romantic options, and to stop talking to girls who lived across the country online.  Even then, these feelings led me astray.  Every time I had that feeling, I had a hard time playing it cool after a successful few dates, and they'd stop talking to me.  In contrast, the girls I wasn't into so much to begin with I could play cool with, and actually date for a longer period. 

Actually it's funny, because right when I met my wife, there was another woman who I had been interested in, in the strong butterfly way, but I was convinced she didn't like me as more than a friend.  I ended up dating my wife instead, and a few months later, was hanging out with the girl, and realized she was actually crazy in love with me too.  That said, I knew that there was no reason to ever trust this feeling, that my relationship was going well, I cared about commitments, and I wasn't going to throw it all away for silly butterflies.

My understanding is that feeling, even when reciprocal, doesn't last more than a year or two.  So I'm not sure I missed anything important. 

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

Uhh...what is moe?  Is it some forum term? 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 20:19
I never saw Hanners as a romantic possibility for anyone myself. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see her get to a point where she could have a healthy relationship but I just don't see that happening. Hell, most of the time I don't even see her as "Female" but more as a class of her own. She is Hanners.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 07 Oct 2014, 20:24
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 07 Oct 2014, 20:29
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

What you did there, I see it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 20:29

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).

Yes, there are other neurotic characters but for example, Dora's neurosis don't make you feel like holding her and protecting her. You just want her to stop asking you where everything is and shoo away Swiper.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 07 Oct 2014, 20:29
One thing more on the Claire and Marten relationship development is that she, more than the other interns has more of a friendship with Faye.
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.

The way I read it is that Faye figured that Claire had a thing for Marten. She mentioned that she followed Marten as a baby duck, after all. Then Faye, being the good friend she is, observed that Marten and Claire seemed to be a good pair, and would make a nice couple. She encouraged that behaviour, not just at the bar, teasing Claire; she retired to "sleep" when Marten started to touch Claire's hair, after all.

Faye, more than any other character (except a certain redhead, I'm sure), wants Marten to be happy after everything that had happened to him. She saw a chance, and boom, here we are, at page 14 or 15, discussing relationships, pancakes, burgers, linguistics, and redheads.

Jeph Jacques, you magnificent bastard, see what you have achieved and rejoice in all your glory.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 20:30
Oh, and while I did not Squee at this I did get a warm and fuzzy feeling in the cockles of my heart, maybe below the cockles
Maybe in the sub-cockle area, maybe in the liver
Maybe in the kidneys, maybe even in the colon, I don't know.

But seriously kids, Love, just like Shit, happens. Sometimes there is no explanation and sometimes it does not need one. The smile on Claire's face is reason enough.


Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 20:31
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

Wonderful question!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 07 Oct 2014, 20:33
I guess I disagree with you pretty strongly.  I didn't love any of my girlfriends, although I liked them just fine.  Hell, I didn't fall head over heels for my wife, I just slowly realized over a year plus of being together that there was no word to describe what I felt but love. 

That obsessive, butterflies in the stomach feeling you get about someone though?  That never led me to any good places, not even once.  As I said, when I was young, I would fall in love with female friends, then get the nice guy talk.  Or fall in love with women from online.  So I made it a rule not to consider my friends as romantic options, and to stop talking to girls who lived across the country online.  Even then, these feelings led me astray.  Every time I had that feeling, I had a hard time playing it cool after a successful few dates, and they'd stop talking to me.  In contrast, the girls I wasn't into so much to begin with I could play cool with, and actually date for a longer period. 

Actually it's funny, because right when I met my wife, there was another woman who I had been interested in, in the strong butterfly way, but I was convinced she didn't like me as more than a friend.  I ended up dating my wife instead, and a few months later, was hanging out with the girl, and realized she was actually crazy in love with me too.  That said, I knew that there was no reason to ever trust this feeling, that my relationship was going well, I cared about commitments, and I wasn't going to throw it all away for silly butterflies.

My understanding is that feeling, even when reciprocal, doesn't last more than a year or two.  So I'm not sure I missed anything important. 

Wow, man. That's actually really depressing. I can't understand NOT having that butterfly feeling. I've been married for 6 years and sometimes my wife does something super adorable and I get those feelings all over again. I'm not trying to knock on your relationship, so please don't be mad. What works for you, works for you. I could never have a romantic relationship where those feelings didn't exist. That's me, though. I think though, there are a lot of people out there that believe in a romantic love. And sometimes, romantic love just happens. I'm sorry it never happened for you, or that if it did, it never worked out. I really am. Just don't down on people that like, live or hope for a romantic love like that, not only for themselves, but for the fictional characters they've come to associate with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: reicreature on 07 Oct 2014, 20:39

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).

Yes, there are other neurotic characters but for example, Dora's neurosis don't make you feel like holding her and protecting her. You just want her to stop asking you where everything is and shoo away Swiper.

I'm not sure how I feel about neurosis -fetishists.  :psyduck:

oh no! does my husband only love because my red hair and anxiety issues are cute?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 07 Oct 2014, 20:39
I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.

While I'm sure there's people who like Claire because she's trans, because maybe that's a something they relate to or something they're attracted to or they're just into social justice or whatever.

But cis Claire wouldn't be the same character. You can have someone act just like her, but the motivations wouldn't be the same. I'd made a post a thread or two back of how I thought being trans related to Claire's character and said it made her a late bloomer. Why's cis Claire so much more excited than normal to buy a pretty dress for a wedding? Why hasn't she kissed anyone at 24 and why is she so reserved in general? Most likely reason would be she's Marigold, but we already have Marigold.

And *I* for one, miss Penelope
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: K1dmor on 07 Oct 2014, 20:42
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

Wonderful question!
(http://i.imgur.com/cd5RfKl.jpg)

 
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Oct 2014, 20:45
Aside from their love of books, in what way are Penelope and Claire similar at all?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 20:48
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

Wonderful question!
(http://i.imgur.com/cd5RfKl.jpg)

 
(click to show/hide)


I Lol'ed. Never even heard that song. I guess I need to go find it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cagier Love on 07 Oct 2014, 20:50
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.

2411 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2411): Even for Marten, he is acting overly neurotic, which Faye picks up on.

2415 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2415): One of the most ironic strips, while claiming to loathe witholding information, Marten witholds information germane to his specific anxiety.

2445 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2415): Faye convinces Claire to hang around for hours, both confirming Claire's high interest in Marten and giving Faye an extended look at Claire. Faye is so keen on the opportunity, she attempts to leave work.

2651 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2651): Marten's relationship status weighs heavily on Faye's mind...

2769 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2769): ...yet Faye is quick to dismiss a potential romantic opportunity for Marten, despite the silliness of the "ethical conflict" of dating a non-employee whose service time will be measured in weeks.

2795 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2795): Faye hasn't figured out what the skeleton in the closet is but has accepted Claire anyway and tries to move things along.

Personally, I think Marten was intending to more forward in some incremental fashion after the wedding but put the brakes on when Claire melted down (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 07 Oct 2014, 20:56
Aside from their love of books, in what way are Penelope and Claire similar at all?

I've seen occasional remarks that hinted that Claire was a "token" character. I'd submit that Penelope is the "token." In a story where everybody's got some kind of issues, she (and probably Gabby, who we also don't see anymore) is the token. She's normal. She's vanilla. And amid all the variety of the rest of the cast... well, she's downright dull. Likable enough, and handy at those times when you need a semi-serious foil to the rest of the gang, but so very ordinary.

In real life, that's not a bad thing. When you're telling a story, though, (and I think this is true in life, too) it's a person's lumps and imperfections that make them and their circumstances interesting.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 07 Oct 2014, 20:57
Claire is pretty much the opposite of Penelope in every way.
Penelope is bitter, dogmatic and judgmental. Claire, with one exception I can think of ... isn't.
Penelope wants her aspirations handed to her. That they're not is the world's fault. Claire works to make her personal reality conform to her picture of who she is ... bringing everything from her job to her body into line with that picture.
I used to think Hannelore was the strongest person in the strip, bar none. But Claire's right up there.

EDITED for more accurate expression of my evolving understanding of trans.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 07 Oct 2014, 21:05

I'd submit that Penelope is the "token." In a story where everybody's got some kind of issues, she (and probably Gabby, who we also don't see anymore) is the token. She's normal. She's vanilla. And amid all the variety of the rest of the cast... well, she's downright dull. Likable enough, and handy at those times when you need a semi-serious foil to the rest of the gang, but so very ordinary.

In real life, that's not a bad thing. When you're telling a story, though, (and I think this is true in life, too) it's a person's lumps and imperfections that make them and their circumstances interesting.

I would not call her a token but more of a side character. She is a tool to help fill out the story. You are right that she is not very interesting.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 07 Oct 2014, 21:06
Uhh...what is moe?  Is it some forum term?
More anime fan-speak.  Moe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe) (tvtropes link).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 07 Oct 2014, 21:12
Wow, man. That's actually really depressing. I can't understand NOT having that butterfly feeling. I've been married for 6 years and sometimes my wife does something super adorable and I get those feelings all over again. I'm not trying to knock on your relationship, so please don't be mad. What works for you, works for you. I could never have a romantic relationship where those feelings didn't exist. That's me, though. I think though, there are a lot of people out there that believe in a romantic love. And sometimes, romantic love just happens. I'm sorry it never happened for you, or that if it did, it never worked out. I really am. Just don't down on people that like, live or hope for a romantic love like that, not only for themselves, but for the fictional characters they've come to associate with.

Eh.  My mother told me that before she met my dad, she was madly in love with someone, and she broke up with them because she didn't like how out of control she felt.  She only dated my dad initially because he was a dorky guy she knew who begged her for a year, and she felt bad for him.  Her plan was to only see him for a short period of time so his self esteem was built up more.  But somehow, they ended up getting married. 

Bottom line I guess is true romantic love would mean I wouldn't exist.  And perhaps I come from a line of people who ultimately choose their life partners through the head rather than the heart. 

Seriously though, I'm not bitter.  I love my wife and don't ever regret our marriage.  But sappy romance stories alternatively annoy or depress me, they don't make me squee. 

More anime fan-speak.  Moe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe) (tvtropes link).

Ahh.  I've tried to avoid knowing as much about anime as possible in my life. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 07 Oct 2014, 21:13
Oh, I thought ya ment dis guy.


(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130623172942/simpsons/images/thumb/d/d9/Imagemoe2.jpg/149px-Imagemoe2.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mystere9 on 07 Oct 2014, 21:14
Ahh.  I've tried to avoid knowing as much about anime as possible in my life.
Probably a wise choice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 21:15
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 07 Oct 2014, 21:19
Am I the only one who picked up on Claire having feelings for Marten here:   2431 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431)

Seems like she's the only one seeing responsible actions out of the whole cast.  I totally support Marten's decision to buy that guitar, but I don't see picking up extra hours to make up the lost money as more responsible than usual.  She sees him as responsible when he's just making up for a huge impulse purchase there.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 07 Oct 2014, 21:28
Am I the only one who picked up on Claire having feelings for Marten here:   2431 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431)

Seems like she's the only one seeing responsible actions out of the whole cast.  I totally support Marten's decision to buy that guitar, but I don't see picking up extra hours to make up the lost money as more responsible than usual.  She sees him as responsible when he's just making up for a huge impulse purchase there.

The facial expression's a bit cut off by the glasses, but it looks like she's making a wisecrack (kinda like when she calls him "Cicero" at the reception).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: plusorminus on 07 Oct 2014, 21:55
I like Claire. I'm not sure about this development, though. Mainly because I foresee certain complications.

I don't think Clinton is a big Marten fan. While that won't likely be an issue in and of itself, I now wonder if, with the impending Dora/Sven implosion that Jeph wasn't foreshadowing a parallel with Claire and Clinton. I could see Clinton, possibly inadvertently, prophesying gloom and doom for this relationship. Possibly their mother will rein that in, or maybe he and Marten will form the sort of friendship Sven and Marten had when Marten was dating Dora.

I think Marten has to tell Claire about the Emily stuff. I do think Emily will have a problem with it. She has been shown as pretty mellow, but I found it pretty evident as of her party that she had the hots for Marten. It's even possible that she confided in Claire and Gabby in this. I don't know that for sure, but I could see her doing that. Which would mean she might see Claire's move as a betrayal. Orrr, she might not care. But I think that this will cause some friction, at least initially.

Also, I still think there's another shoe to drop in the Padma situation. I could see her reentering the narrative at some point down the road. Marten, to his credit, is a loyal boyfriend so I can't see him jumping at the chance to get back with her, but considering how freaked out he was when he saw the girl he'd left California for, I think that a Padma reentry would cause a shakeup, no matter how into Claire he might be.

I'm interested to see where it goes, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vincent Adultman on 07 Oct 2014, 21:59
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm kind of in this group too.  There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what.  I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that.  Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character.  He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain.  This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.

Character growth?  Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.

I just feel like most of the arcs lately have felt forced and ham-fisted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kyraeus on 07 Oct 2014, 22:05
Are we reading the same comic?  That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.

Are WE reading the same comic?  I mean, at least, specifically revolving around the area of Marten's love life?  The boy's basically had every single person who ever had any interest in him/vice versa go... in a word, poorly.

While I don't personally have anything against a trans relationship (beyond the honest answer of it not being really my own preference for myself), it isn't a HUGE leap to see that while this has the potential to go well, it also has a SPECTACULAR option of being the next in a series of humongous explosions.  I seriously feel bad for the poor guy.

I think anyone who's around, involved, or related to anything trans can at least somewhat agree that besides life's normal problems, feeling like you're the wrong gender adds a boatload of special issues.  Marten's had bad luck enough with people WITHOUT that excess baggage, with only the 'normal' levels of baggage.. (Well, for whatever counts for normal for people he gets involved with that is).

I guess it all comes down to: I'd like to see Marten succeed just for once with a relationship.  And barring that, I'd at least like to see it NOT become something that demands a night getting piss drunk and worrying about whether it's going to mess with his entire circle of friendships, as in like; if it works it works, if not it doesn't, no harm, no foul, everyone walks away friends and happy. 

Y'know.  Rather than the explodey that's happened at least twice now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tragic_pizza on 07 Oct 2014, 22:19
I have resisted - for MONTHS - voicing my hope that ClaireMartin would be A Thing.

Please let it not be someone's dream.

FWIW, Parker Marie Molloy picked up on this, and there is currently a wonderful squee-fest going on in my FB feed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vincent Adultman on 07 Oct 2014, 22:22
I don't know, kyraeus. I think the Dora relationship ended well enough. Sure, it hurt for a bit but they ended up friends. It's not like she smashed up his car or things got really ugly. (does anyone besides Claire even own a car in this comic?) As for this time, it's kind of hard to care how this turns out. It's getting harder to care how any of this recent shit turns out, honestly. I started reading QC because it was a mature, but still humorous look into everyday life. Lately though it's just Dawson's Fuckin Creek in Hipstertown.

My favorite strips lately are the ones with May. Mostly because she's kind of a dick. She's the only one around who seems capable of rolling her eyes and calling people out on their pithy bullshit. I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on, but I feel like if things get any more saccharine I'm going to get diabetes. It just feels fake. Like QC is suddenly 7th Heaven with facial piercings. Life isn't like this. Hell, the earlier arcs had some unrealistic stuff, but at least it was funny. Remember when Faye would attack people outright and the rest of the cast would chuckle? Now it seems like it would become Yet Another Big Damn Deal.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 07 Oct 2014, 22:28
I never expected to read these forums and feel like the world's biggest Hopeless Romantic. Cynicism abounds. I get that no relationship is easy, and one like Marten and Claire are facing is even less so. Does that have to mean doom and gloom? Every relationship you have ever been in has failed untill you get to the one that doesn't. (It's why you don't keep looking for your keys after you've found them.) Does that mean that you give up and settle? I guess for some people, but I don't see Marten doing that. Yeah, shit happens. Yeah, when you're 20-something you are likely to go through a lot of relationships. Some last for a while, some burn bright and fizzle out. Some are just hook-ups. We've seen Marten in all of these situations. I hold out hope that the two of them will weather the storms just fine.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 22:33
Ahh.  I've tried to avoid knowing as much about anime as possible in my life.
Probably a wise choice.
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.

Also check the title! http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1525
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 07 Oct 2014, 22:35
WRT the whole "moe" thing: it appears that one of the central themes of moe, as I understand it, is innocence and submissiveness. Now, Claire has shown that when it comes to matters of the heart she's somewhat naive, but I hardly would say that her character as a whole is one of innocence-just look at her conversation with Clinton about judging risks and all that. And, when it comes to submissiveness, well, she had some pretty strong opinions that she didn't quash about Marten's lame orientation, and she's quick to call people out when she perceives them as being egotistical ("I knew [obscure artist] back when he had a whole first name"). I don't see her as being a cliche, is what I'm getting at.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 22:41
WRT the whole "moe" thing: it appears that one of the central themes of moe, as I understand it, is innocence and submissiveness. Now, Claire has shown that when it comes to matters of the heart she's somewhat naive, but I hardly would say that her character as a whole is one of innocence-just look at her conversation with Clinton about judging risks and all that. And, when it comes to submissiveness, well, she had some pretty strong opinions that she didn't quash about Marten's lame orientation, and she's quick to call people out when she perceives them as being egotistical ("I knew [obscure artist] back when he had a whole first name"). I don't see her as being a cliche, is what I'm getting at.

Nope, just finish reading the sentence. Also Hanners is listed in the webcomic section of moe

Quote
The classical Moe character is highly associated with innocence, submission, helplessness and woobie characteristics (e.g., Fragile Flower, Shrinking Violet, Extreme Doormat, Dojikko, The Ingenue, etc., usually drawn with Tareme Eyes), although this does not need to be always the case. In many other, more modern variations, there is also a trend towards more upbeat and extroverted personalities that are far more unique, noticeable and recognizable

An easier to understand description is earlier in the TVtropes article:

Quote
A common definition is that Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, etc. To evoke a sort of Big Brother Instinct, in men and women.

It is a kind of character found in many works from Lés Misérables to Harry Potter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mystere9 on 07 Oct 2014, 23:11
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.
Sure it is! I actively choose to remain ignorant of sports, because the perceived benefit of having something to talk about with other males my age and any slight enjoyment I might derive from it don't outweigh in my mind the amount of time I would spend watching games.

I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 23:16
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.
Sure it is! I actively choose to remain ignorant of sports, because the perceived benefit of having something to talk about with other males my age and any slight enjoyment I might derive from it don't outweigh in my mind the amount of time I would spend watching games.

I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!

Your parents have sexuality? I'm so sorry. Gotta tell ya, being an immaculate conception is great :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: no one special on 07 Oct 2014, 23:20
Congrats, Sir/Madam. I registered an account just to join the conversation because of you.

Awww thanks!  Glad you're joining the community! 


Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest?
...
 I'd evaluate my feelings.

Sure, I've absolutely had that happen!  Shame I was always too chicken to follow up on it  :-\

When it happened to me, though, it was someone that I already at least had friend-chemistry with, someone I was already connecting with.  But there's been very little relationship development between these two!  Nothing to say, "hey, there's something there, maybe!"  He mused over the drunk-snuggle the same way he mused over Emily's cheek-kiss - noting to write home about there.  Even when he's in the bar and calls Claire his favorite, he says "you're all my favorite!"  Marten reaches out to Claire and invites her to things because that's what he does - he reaches out to people who seem like they need it.  He's helping her feel included, that's all.  If Emily wasn't so self-sufficient, he'd invite her out to stuff too.  There's no indication that they even have a deepening friendship, besides idle conversations at work.  It just feels like Marten falling into something because it's easy and she's has a crush, not through any real impetus of his own.

There's also the issue (for me) that she feels so much younger and impressionable.  She's trusted him with personal stuff, but what has she trusted her with?  What does he see in her?  What is it that makes it about her in particular?  I get that she has a crush on him, but it feels like an infatuation-crush, not like something Marten could sink his teeth into. 

Here's the thing: Let's compare Claire to Padma.  Marten didn't know Padma very long, just like he hasn't known Claire long.  But he and Padma could talk about things, they could banter back and forth, they could laugh, there was chemistry!  That I was totally into, I could understand that!  Plus, Padma was an adult, you know?  And her time with Marten felt like an adult relationship, brief as it was.  We haven't seen any of that with Claire.  He's been a confidant to Claire, sure, he's been a buddy.  But more than that?  It's just not there. 

With Padma, it felt natural. With Claire, it feels forced.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mystere9 on 07 Oct 2014, 23:22
I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!

Your parents have sexuality? I'm so sorry. Gotta tell ya, being an immaculate conception is great :)
Wait, they told you immaculate conception didn't involve sex? Yikes!


/blasphemy
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:22
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.
Sure it is! I actively choose to remain ignorant of sports, because the perceived benefit of having something to talk about with other males my age and any slight enjoyment I might derive from it don't outweigh in my mind the amount of time I would spend watching games.

I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!
Not dedicating time to something is not the same as actively avoiding knowing anything about it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 07 Oct 2014, 23:24
I've been thinking about ways in which Marten and Claire counterbalance each other.  Claire is passionate and goal-oriented but hasn't lived independently or dated; Marten has plenty of adult life experience but is still drifting along without knowing what he wants to be when he grows up.  Claire is high-strung, socially awkward, and has panic attacks, but she's brave about taking initiative and facing change; Marten is passive, a bit of a chicken, and hates change, but he's comfortable around people and is generally very even-tempered and laid back.

Put all this together, and you might have a relationship in which neither person is the dominant one.  That could be a good learning experience for both of them.  It'd be a comfortable space for Claire to grow into dating: if she fell for someone more Type A, she might just get swept along and not learn as much about herself and her needs and desires, but if she had a relationship in which she wound up leading too much, she might be torn apart by anxieties.  For Marten, well, he's been a bit overshadowed and sometimes dominated by the women in his life, and he might develop more of his manhood if he spends time with someone who, while not a doormat, isn't three times as assertive as he is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 07 Oct 2014, 23:25
I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!

Your parents have sexuality? I'm so sorry. Gotta tell ya, being an immaculate conception is great :)
Wait, they told you immaculate conception didn't involve sex? Yikes!


/blasphemy

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 07 Oct 2014, 23:26
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix. Unless you're a hardcore prescriptivist, I don't see any way around the argument that burger, in modern common usage, denotes malleable foodstuffs molded into a patty that is then cooked.

Not in these parts. A chicken burger contains small pieces of roast chicken. Nothing resembling a patty.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 07 Oct 2014, 23:26
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.
Any issue?

You should hang out with Pintsize.  :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Toe on 07 Oct 2014, 23:28
Quote from: Vincent Adultman
I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on

I'm pretty sure half of what goes into this comic is Jeph's personal therapy. The other half being a tribute to Azumanga Daioh.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:28
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.
Any issue?

You should hang out with Pintsize.  :wink:
Indeed. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2332

But I'm a knowledge hoarder so my opinion is biassed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 07 Oct 2014, 23:31
Some is so unsubtle, I can't believe others haven't commented on it. Just look at pupil size for goodness' sake.

Lol, spot on!  I was tempted to mention the size of their eyes (rather than the size of their pupils), but thought that it was too obvious and opted for 'body language' instead.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 07 Oct 2014, 23:31
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:35
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Yes
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: badbum61 on 07 Oct 2014, 23:37
15 PAGES BY.......oh, wait.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 07 Oct 2014, 23:41
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Yes
:psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 23:41
Nope, no matter how many times I look at it Claire's faces are just so adorable.  That is what pure, unadulterated happiness looks like.

Yeah, Claire has been cute throughout the bar scene and aftermath. Jeph has really worked hard on her body language and I think that is why so many have become invested in this plot - We know what she feels and care enough that we want her to be okay. It's a triumph of his artwork, really.

I've said this before but Marten's decisiveness is something that has been developing for a while. Although it crashed and burned with Delilah, it did get him to the initial objective, just not the longer-term one. Combined with all his friends pairing off, I think that he's been thinking about which girl to try with for a while. Claire's special circumstances meant he had to be that much more self-reliant because he couldn't just discuss her with complete openness with anyone.

Can it work, long-term? The whole point of strip 2807 is that Marten doesn't know! He is proposing to date Claire to find out. By not just jumping to sex the way that he did with Dora, there is the opportunity to back off and salvage their friendship if things go bad. From what Marten has said, being on easy speaking terms with Dora was unusual with his exes; he probably ways to avoid a 'too hot, too fast thing with Claire.

I disagree with the suggestion that the strip has nowhere left to go. There is Momo and inclusiveness, Claire and inclusiveness, Hannelore's destiny (I wouldn't be surprised if she were her mother's clone with cybernetic 'upgrades' originally intended as a replacement body) and, of course, whether Marten will ever fulfill his dreams. So long as Jeph remains interested, I'll keep reading!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: plusorminus on 07 Oct 2014, 23:44

Here's the thing: Let's compare Claire to Padma.  Marten didn't know Padma very long, just like he hasn't known Claire long.  But he and Padma could talk about things, they could banter back and forth, they could laugh, there was chemistry!  That I was totally into, I could understand that!  Plus, Padma was an adult, you know?  And her time with Marten felt like an adult relationship, brief as it was.  We haven't seen any of that with Claire.  He's been a confidant to Claire, sure, he's been a buddy.  But more than that?  It's just not there. 

With Padma, it felt natural. With Claire, it feels forced.

While I'm not disputing this, per se, I'm having a hard time really spotting the differences. Marten really didn't pursue Padma, either. He gamely went along with her on hijinks with Sam and was cool with going out dancing because she asked, and they hooked up because it kinda was drifting that way. There was a ton of time between Marten and Steve running into Padma at the bar, which is probably when it became clear that Marten was into her, and the hooking up, and basically none of it was initiated by Marten himself, unless I'm forgetting something. Also, yes, they could banter, but we are also talking about Padma, who would not return Marten's calls even just to say goodbye. Not very adult from where I stand.

Your response, though, makes me wonder  because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 07 Oct 2014, 23:48


Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

Welcome, new person!

If you research the matter further, you'll find the term "biologically a man/a woman" fails to properly describe the situation in any case. After all, what are we but biology, no matter our bodies?

So Claire is a woman, because she identifies as a woman.

Moderator Comment If you intended it as a question about her genitalia: please don't discuss that. In the manner such discussions tend to go, they very quickly become disrespectful to real people, of which we have a-plenty on this board. Imho not discussing people's genitalia without their consent is basic human decency.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:49
Your response, though, makes me wonder  because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.
Maybe he will
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 07 Oct 2014, 23:50
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

I'll say this much: Her hips move like she's anatomically female. Men can walk like that but it takes conscious effort. Claire was half-asleep, so it is just how her body works. I'd say she's >80℅ through transition.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 07 Oct 2014, 23:53
Maybe he will
(click to show/hide)

That ship sunk so long ago it's sitting in the middle of a desert.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 07 Oct 2014, 23:54
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man?
Well, if you check her DNA, yes. She (removed by moderator), she cant have babies, and she had to take hormones to make, for example, her breasts grow. In reality also her voice would be male-ish, and the chance that she's a lesbian would be very high (basically reverse chances than for ordinary people).

It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way
Why ? He was into women before ?

or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath??
Only bisexuals have that "freedom".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Saabstory88 on 07 Oct 2014, 23:55
Congrats, Sir/Madam. I registered an account just to join the conversation because of you.

Awww thanks!  Glad you're joining the community! 


Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest?
...
 I'd evaluate my feelings.

Sure, I've absolutely had that happen!  Shame I was always too chicken to follow up on it  :-\

When it happened to me, though, it was someone that I already at least had friend-chemistry with, someone I was already connecting with.  But there's been very little relationship development between these two!  Nothing to say, "hey, there's something there, maybe!"  He mused over the drunk-snuggle the same way he mused over Emily's cheek-kiss - noting to write home about there.  Even when he's in the bar and calls Claire his favorite, he says "you're all my favorite!"  Marten reaches out to Claire and invites her to things because that's what he does - he reaches out to people who seem like they need it.  He's helping her feel included, that's all.  If Emily wasn't so self-sufficient, he'd invite her out to stuff too.  There's no indication that they even have a deepening friendship, besides idle conversations at work.  It just feels like Marten falling into something because it's easy and she's has a crush, not through any real impetus of his own.

There's also the issue (for me) that she feels so much younger and impressionable.  She's trusted him with personal stuff, but what has she trusted her with?  What does he see in her?  What is it that makes it about her in particular?  I get that she has a crush on him, but it feels like an infatuation-crush, not like something Marten could sink his teeth into. 

Here's the thing: Let's compare Claire to Padma.  Marten didn't know Padma very long, just like he hasn't known Claire long.  But he and Padma could talk about things, they could banter back and forth, they could laugh, there was chemistry!  That I was totally into, I could understand that!  Plus, Padma was an adult, you know?  And her time with Marten felt like an adult relationship, brief as it was.  We haven't seen any of that with Claire.  He's been a confidant to Claire, sure, he's been a buddy.  But more than that?  It's just not there. 

With Padma, it felt natural. With Claire, it feels forced.

As with most of the discussion to be found, it seems as though everyone is assuming that each character is acting towards a best case scenario. Even those who would say these action are out of character, are saying so because they assume that the story will be written in such a way that trends, from the beginning, towards a a favorable outcome. I have read several comments which seem to allude to this story line being pursued because of they think Jeph has a certain social agenda, or otherwise pandering. Might it be, that he does have an agenda, but it is not one which has been fully considered.

Disclaimer: If any of the following is against forum rules, please let me know, and i will refrain from discussing such things in the future, I have not been here for that long.

It seems that so many people have been assuming that Jeph's message is that two people can be in a relationship, regardless of any issues resulting from gender identity, or from being trans. What if that's not the point, there may actually be a different end game. After continuing to re-read the various strips with Marten and Claire, I can truly see the arguments from both sides as to whether or not the relationship developed naturally. Perhaps, in the end, they are not actually compatible people. We of course can not know that yet, and I do not feel like getting into listing all of the various pros and cons of their relationship. But, what this makes me wonder about, is if Jeph is trying to make a statement, maybe he will have them break up. Maybe it will be horrible. This will lead into a more important point. While it can be something that an author wants to talk about, when he creates a cis and trans character who get together, is it not a more powerful point to create these characters which end up apart because of their base incompatibility, and not something resulting from any of their perceived gender identity issues?

To elaborate, if you want to expound upon these issues, as out dear author may wish to, if you have a cis/trans couple get together, and then split, having a real, underlying personality conflict, will eliminate any speculation about whether the relationship ended because of any transphobic complications. This is possibly even a more powerful message than getting them together in the first place, because the reasons for their breakup are clear, and not related to any perceived trans issues. The reason that is see this as being a likely outcome, is that, while I like Claire as a person, I just don't think we have even met the person that Marten is meant to be with. It just seems too soon in the progression of the story. I don't know, it seems like either there is going to be a breakup, or there is going to be a marriage, how else would the story end properly? It would seem less likely to me that Jeph is going to eliminate all of the struggle from Marten's character in the foreseeable future, so the likely outcome is breakup.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:55
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

I'll say this much: Her hips move like she's anatomically female. Men can walk like that but it takes conscious effort. Claire was half-asleep, so it is just how her body works. I'd say she's >80℅ through transition.
Although anatomically speaking female gait part of normal women movement I guess a man can actively train that until it takes no more conscious effort.

Taking hormone in adulthood wouldn't change that because it is part of the basic bone structure I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nightfall44 on 07 Oct 2014, 23:56
OK... I've signed up to comment on this for a number of reasons.

Firstly, Claire looks EXACTLY like a girl I know who is/was in the same situation as Claire who I crushed on for ages. Not the "one that got away", but close. DAMN if I haven't been rooting for Marten and Claire.

Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.

Thirdly, I want to put my own thoughts in on this. This is a potential relationship where Marten hasn't been pushed into it. It's all his OWN initiative, unlike most of the others... Padma, Dora, D (not that that was a relationship, but it follows the pattern) all pretty much took the lead and he followed. For once, it's his own choice to pursue something. Yes, this has been mentioned before, but there is another aspect to this.

In this (potential) relationship, there are no expectations. They HAVE to feel it out. He doesn't have to take a role other than a decent, upright guy. It can be taken at its own speed, and both of them can put on the brakes at any point. He can, in his own way, take the lead by NOT taking the lead.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

But I am squeeing like a 14-year-old girl at these developments. I really, REALLY hope that Jeph isn't trolling us again...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:57
Maybe he will
(click to show/hide)

That ship sunk so long ago it's sitting in the middle of a desert.
And that's why it could happen! Because nobody is expecting it anymor... Oh... Now it won't happen... Wait!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Oct 2014, 23:58
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.

Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.

Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 07 Oct 2014, 23:59
Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.
It is a reference to a song. It was posted in the thread earlier.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 00:02
I've got to say that even the view points that I don't agree with here are fascinating - it isn't just that there is more than one way to start or be in a relationship, there is a human race full of ways :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nightfall44 on 08 Oct 2014, 00:03
Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.
It is a reference to a song. It was posted in the thread earlier.

I got that. I didn't know that at the time, but it still gave me some misgivings after that was pointed out. And it could still be a reference to that as well... but, as I said, I doubt that. Just my two pence on that one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Oct 2014, 00:07
I've got to say that even the view points that I don't agree with here are fascinating - it isn't just that there is more than one way to start or be in a relationship, there is a human race full of ways :-)
As many ways as people.  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 00:08
Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.
It is a reference to a song. It was posted in the thread earlier.
Y'know, I don't understand those lyrics and definitely don't understand what it has to do with the comic.  If anyone wants to draw any kind of connection.... ?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Oct 2014, 00:11
Welcome, new people, and here's a repost of something topical you may not have gotten to yet in the Rules section.

Quote from: forum rules
Speaking of civility, there are a lot of things to know about transgender and other trans* people. This set of rules is incomplete.

The principle to keep in mind is that the trans* people are male, female, or other as they report themselves to be. They have spent their lives grappling with their identity and are the world's leading authorities on it. Next is that they have always been that sex even when their bodies didn't match. Remember those points and you'll see a lot of the etiquette for yourself.

Don't argue "biology" unless you have a specialist post-secondary education.

Private parts and pronouns: use pronouns people tell you to use for them. And don't put them in quotes. Don't ask about medical status. Natural general curiosity you should satisfy with online resources such as http://glaad.org/transgender but don't pry into someone's life. You wouldn't ask any other woman "Do you have a vagina"?, so don't do it to a trans woman.

That includes Claire. It took a while to persuade the moderators but it turns out that speculating about Claire's downstairs hurts real people. Further,
Quote from Jeph Jacques
    Dear everyone who ever asks about Claire’s junk: it’s none of your business what’s in somebody else’s pants. Stop it.


That word you saw online is a toxic slur. "Shemale", "tranny", and anything you've seen on a porn site will be treated like ethnic slurs by the moderators.

Want to know more?. There's a lot to learn. Start with the links ZoeB posted at the beginning of the trans* discussion thread. Be cautious asking in the forum: make sure you don't sound like you're entitled to answers. We have some generous educators but don't overuse them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 00:16


Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

Welcome, new person!

If you research the matter further, you'll find the term "biologically a man/a woman" fails to properly describe the situation in any case. After all, what are we but biology, no matter our bodies?

So Claire is a woman, because she identifies as a woman.


If you intended it as a question about her genitalia: please don't discuss that. In the manner such discussions tend to go, they very quickly become disrespectful to real people, of which we have a-plenty on this board. Imho not discussing people's genitalia without their consent is basic human decency.

I can't get a fictitious person's consent. My only reason for asking the question is because I want to get into Marten's headspace. Genitalia exist, it's part of being human. Some humans like one set, some the other, and some both. To my knowledge Marten has never expressed any interest in people with male genitalia. It seems out of character to suddenly jump into relationship with a transgender person because we have no previous examples of him expressing interest in the male sex. My inquiry stems from the thought if this is something Marten has considered fully. I can't judge if Marten thinks he is being bold and assertive and fooling himself that he can do this or if he is genuinely attracted to Claire both physically and emotionally. I guess that is yet to be decided but not knowing left me scratching my head. I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand  at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 00:19
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.

Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.

Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!
My language is sloppy but my understanding is clear. I doubt Marten's credibility because I've seen people make decisions like this in real life only to realize later that they chose something that they actually didn't want, often harming others in the process.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 00:28
I've seen people make decisions like this in real life only to realize later that they chose something that they actually didn't want, often harming others in the process.
The decision to date the person you find attractive and see whether it works out often does lead to such realizations and hurt feelings, yes.  But there's only one way to find out...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 00:38


Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.

Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.

Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!

I'm so going to be banned for this but remember who brought this male/female brain stuff into the discussion...

Claire is a lovely person who for some reason or reasons was sufficiently uncomfortable with the physical and social conditions imposed by the circumstances of her birth. So uncomfortable that she sought out to change those things and has succeeded to such an extent that the people around her though either ignorance or acceptance see Claire as what she chooses to present to the world. Good for her and good for Marten not having hangups that get in the way or perusing someone he likes, who likes him and would make a good match.

But this stuff about male and female brains is so much offensive crap!

A brain is a brain. To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at... It reenforces misogynistic bullshit like women are too emotional or girls are bad at math. It says men are right every time they make an excuse up about how woman are supposed to behave because now their brains are like that not becuse form an early age they were trained by the pink asile at the toy store with little dolls and easy bake ovens while the Lego and blocks were in the blue aisle.

Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.

Kindly read this before pressing the ban button. http://www.popsci.com/article/science/stop-looking-%E2%80%9Chardwired%E2%80%9D-differences-male-and-female-brains
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Oct 2014, 00:42
I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand  at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.

We don't ignore the issue; we restrict the discussion of it in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons. 

The owner of this forum, the artist himself, has made it clear that talking about people's and character's genitalia is off-limits; his place, his rules. 

The mods, trying to follow his guidance, together with that of those most affected by society's marginalisation of them (and worse - much worse) have channelled the discussion of trans*-related matters into threads in the Discuss! forum - those threads contain many thousands of posts around this subject which are useful to read, and which will give some insight into the decisions that are made here.

To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at...

No one here is saying that different means better or worse; that is bullshit.  Read the thousands of posts I just mentioned (and the links they contain) for more background.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 08 Oct 2014, 00:44
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man?
Well, if you check her DNA, yes.
While this is probable, there is no way for us to know whether it's true or not.
She also had an operation to transform her penis into a vagina
You do not know that. It has never been stated and we've been (repeatedly) asked not to speculate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 08 Oct 2014, 00:52
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
Agreed. She is judgmental, and the puns are irritating (although Emily's are often worse). And she really needs a haircut.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 08 Oct 2014, 01:00
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?

Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.


If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 01:00
I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand  at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.

We don't ignore the issue; we restrict the discussion of it in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons. 

The owner of this forum, the artist himself, has made it clear that talking about people's and character's genitalia is off-limits; his place, his rules. 

The mods, trying to follow his guidance, together with that of those most affected by society's marginalisation of them (and worse - much worse) have channelled the discussion of trans*-related matters into threads in the Discuss! forum - those threads contain many thousands of posts around this subject which are useful to read, and which will give some insight into the decisions that are made here.

To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at...

No one here is saying that different means better or worse; that is bullshit.  Read the thousands of posts I just mentioned (and the links they contain) for more background.

On a general level I feel that restrictions on discussing any topic is often counterproductive. It often ends by one party telling the other party blatantly that they are wrong and ending the discussion. The offending party is then offended themselves and usually cements their beliefs and possible misconceptions. Instead an open (yet objectively moderated) discussion where people can ask and should ask questions to one another in order to achieve a better understanding of a topic or where one side is coming from will lead to better understanding all around. However I will respect Jeph's rules as it is his site and I have no say in the matter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 01:02
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.

There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.

There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf

Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 01:06
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 08 Oct 2014, 01:09
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?

"The syrup is for the *pancakes*!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 08 Oct 2014, 01:15
I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)
Someone should tell Jeph, he seems to have forgotten for the last couple of weeks ;)

That obsessive, butterflies in the stomach feeling you get about someone though?  That never led me to any good places, not even once.
I hear you. When enumerating body parts that are qualified to make lifechanging decisions, "genitalia", "hormonal glands" and "heart" are not among them. Always double check with your brain.

That being said, emotions are a powerful thing and cannot be entirely discounted. After all, the whole point of your brain is to make you happy, which is an emotion.


I don't think Clinton is a big Marten fan.
I don't think Clinton is a big fan of anyone. He's overprotective of Claire to the point that he'd probably want to see her locked in a cage, three miles underground, where nothing could hurt her.
She has put him into place before, she may need to do it again. I expect him to stay suspicious, but I also expect him to respect his sister's wishes of not interfering.

To my knowledge Marten has never expressed any interest in people with male genitalia.
He has never expressed any interest in men. While there's a huge overlap between men and people with male genitalia, you don't check someone's pants to figure out whether they're attractive.

Claire is at a point in her transition where she looks female, behaves female and smells female. Marten does not seem to have any trouble seeing her as a female being, and his attraction to her can be real. It's possible that he wouldn't even know about her trans status if she hadn't told him.

At that point, in a perfect world, genitalia should be a minor issue they can work through. I understand that it's not a minor issue for everyone. Let me quote someone who said it better than I could:
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
These are questions everyone should ask themselves at one point or another. Knowing your priorities in a relationship helps making better relationship decisions. My personal conclusion has been that sex is awesome, but it's not the part of a relationship I need to be happy. Your results may vary.


Whatever claire has down there, it will unfortunately be different to what marten is used to from cis women. They agreed to work through that when they're getting there. It's possible that it'll end up more complicated and/or less satisfying than the sex he had with his previous cis girlfriends, but that doesn't need to be dealbreaker.
Frankly, I don't think the issue of her pants is the biggest hurdle they will have to face.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 01:15
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
Sure! But I still would rather have waffles most of the times.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 01:16
"The syrup is for the *pancakes*!"
Oh god, how did it take us this long for anyone to make that connection?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 01:17
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?

Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.


If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.

I. Love. This. Post.

We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 01:18
I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)
Someone should tell Jeph, he seems to have forgotten for the last couple of weeks ;)
Just to make things even more devastating when they don't work out?

Things seemed to be going alright between him and Dora in the begin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 01:20
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.

There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.

There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf

Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.

Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology.  What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years. Victorian women were expected to be reserved, Elizabethan women were expected to be bawdy, read Shakespeare some time. Are you suggesting sudden evolution changed lady brains? Does Marigold have a partial male brain because she liked video games?

Also I see your study and raise you another article http://womensenews.org/story/women-in-science/131212/calling-all-female-brains-stop-the-neurosexism#.VDTzbGcxUg4
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 01:20
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?

Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.


If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.

I. Love. This. Post.

We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.

I wonder how many people got the mental image of a person taking a genital for a fancy dinner  :roll:

Now you got it!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 01:20
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?

Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.

I would love to believe that is always the case however I feel it is an ideal situation. People are different, they have different thought processes, modus operandi etc.... I know not everyone thinks nor acts that way whether it be the fault of our society or otherwise. Physical attraction is a deal breaker for many people. I understand how many people have successful relationships regardless of genitalia but to say that all people can do that would be a very broad statement. That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling. He's reached a critical point in his life and he's freaking out about a lot of things. He may not be behaving rationally. It's entirely possible he's looking for something he can control because right now he feels like he is so out of control.  So when I am presented with their romance it's important in my mind that I have all the facts straight. In real life people's personal life isn't my business  especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 08 Oct 2014, 01:21
If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.

Yes. I tried to say something like this a long way back.

On a general level I feel that restrictions on discussing any topic is often counterproductive.
In this case, the discussions that happened before that rule was made were far more counterproductive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 01:22
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.

There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.

There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf

Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.

Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology.  What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years. Victorian women were expected to be reserved, Elizabethan women were expected to be bawdy, read Shakespeare some time. Are you suggesting sudden evolution changed lady brains? Does Marigold have a partial male brain because she liked video games?

Also I see your study and raise you another article http://womensenews.org/story/women-in-science/131212/calling-all-female-brains-stop-the-neurosexism#.VDTzbGcxUg4

Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 01:23
Taking hormone in adulthood wouldn't change that because it is part of the basic bone structure I think.

Agreed; that's why I speculated about either surgical reconstruction (horrendously expensive, hazardous and unlikely) or nanorobotic bone molecular restructuring (thanks Dr E-C) up-thread.

If it's the latter... I wonder if it's an experimental therapy that Claire agreed to try out? I wonder how Hannelore would react to it? Would she regard Claire as effectively being a kind of step-sister, someone else touched by her father's genius?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 01:25
I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)
Someone should tell Jeph, he seems to have forgotten for the last couple of weeks ;)
Maybe longer than that, now that I think of it.

In the early days, there was much more of a running gag of Marty being the poor sucker who always gets barfed upon or clonked in the junk, but Jeph mostly left that behind as the comic got more sophisticated and the characters more complex.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 01:26


I. Love. This. Post.

We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.

How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 08 Oct 2014, 01:27
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?

Yes!  I've had enough of this waffling. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 01:31
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?

Yes!  I've had enough of this waffling.
Indeed--it's starting to give me the crepes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 01:31


Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: plusorminus on 08 Oct 2014, 01:34

I would love to believe that is always the case however I feel it is an ideal situation. People are different, they have different thought processes, modus operandi etc.... I know not everyone thinks nor acts that way whether it be the fault of our society or otherwise. Physical attraction is a deal breaker for many people. I understand how many people have successful relationships regardless of genitalia but to say that all people can do that would be a very broad statement. That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling. He's reached a critical point in his life and he's freaking out about a lot of things. He may not be behaving rationally. It's entirely possible he's looking for something he can control because right now he feels like he is so out of control.  So when I am presented with their romance it's important in my mind that I have all the facts straight. In real life people's personal life isn't my business  especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.

But I wonder if you would think this if Marten were with Emily? Or someone else not-Claire. If he were with Emily, let's say, he'd still be freaking out about a lot of things, so what really is the big deal? Claire is a woman. Reducing her to her "parts" isn't fair, and I think that's why that sort of discussion is verboten here.

I think that we will see Marten's state of mind as things progress between him and Claire. He is, at this point, not drunk, thinking rationally, and talking rationally. Claire has asked him directly if he was okay with her being trans. He actually didn't give her a yes or no answer, but he was honest. He doesn't know. This is uncharted territory for him. Things felt natural, but he is hinting that they must take things as they come and talk things out because there might come a time where things don't feel natural. But aside from that, he wanted to give them a chance.

In many ways, this is similar to the talk Tai had with Dora. At that point, Tai had never had a "real" relationship and she could not promise Dora that they'd live happily ever after, but she was into her and wanted to give it a shot.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Psuedoname on 08 Oct 2014, 01:34
(does anyone besides Claire even own a car in this comic?)
Started to think about it, and had to find out, only can be sure of a couple

Angus http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2292 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2292)
possibly Steve and/or Cosette http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298)
Raven -aargh, couldnt find it, think it's a yellow Beetle
Tai - see same comic for Steve, also when she ran a few red lights thinking about Dora
Penelope http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1000 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1000)

Also, no new comic today :(

Warning - while you were typing 16 QC characters drove past in their cars. You may wish to review your post.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 01:36
Dora has a car; she talks about driving to Marten & Faye's place the night she walks Tai home.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 01:40
In the early days, there was much more of a running gag of Marty being the poor sucker who always gets barfed upon or clonked in the junk, but Jeph mostly left that behind as the comic got more sophisticated and the characters more complex.

One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 01:41

I would love to believe that is always the case however I feel it is an ideal situation. People are different, they have different thought processes, modus operandi etc.... I know not everyone thinks nor acts that way whether it be the fault of our society or otherwise. Physical attraction is a deal breaker for many people. I understand how many people have successful relationships regardless of genitalia but to say that all people can do that would be a very broad statement. That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling. He's reached a critical point in his life and he's freaking out about a lot of things. He may not be behaving rationally. It's entirely possible he's looking for something he can control because right now he feels like he is so out of control.  So when I am presented with their romance it's important in my mind that I have all the facts straight. In real life people's personal life isn't my business  especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.

But I wonder if you would think this if Marten were with Emily? Or someone else not-Claire. If he were with Emily, let's say, he'd still be freaking out about a lot of things, so what really is the big deal? Claire is a woman. Reducing her to her "parts" isn't fair, and I think that's why that sort of discussion is verboten here.

Questioning people about hypotheticals  and building a straw man is hardly fair. My position never reduced Clair to  her "parts" and if Marten hooked up with someone else I would be asking the same questions. However because Marten is hooking up with Claire the consequences are much more severe. Claire could become entirely broken if things don't pan out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 01:42
In the early days, there was much more of a running gag of Marty being the poor sucker who always gets barfed upon or clonked in the junk, but Jeph mostly left that behind as the comic got more sophisticated and the characters more complex.

One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).

That is awesome, you are awesome. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 01:47


Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.

Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.

I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.

I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.

Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: plusorminus on 08 Oct 2014, 01:48

Questioning people about hypotheticals  and building a straw man is hardly fair. My position never reduced Clair to  her "parts" and if Marten hooked up with someone else I would be asking the same questions. However because Marten is hooking up with Claire the consequences are much more severe. Claire could become entirely broken if things don't pan out.

As this was not clear from your previous posts, this was all you had to say. I was answering your question in good faith and not constructing any sort of "straw man." You bought genitalia into this discussion, not me.  Attacking me was unnecessary. You have a good one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 01:51
One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).
:-D :-D :-D

Would that be after he becomes Marten the Fireman?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 Oct 2014, 01:58
In real life people's personal life isn't my business  especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.

From last week's thread:

Discussions about the implications of Claire's gender status on her potential relationship with Marten are now off-limits. Marten and Claire are fictional characters. Jeph will reveal whatever he wants to tell us about their relationship through the comic. Speculation hurts real people who are members of this community and it is quite clear from the last few days that it's not possible for this sort of discussion to take place without that hurt occurring.

The problem is that every time Claire's status and its relation to a sexual relationship with Marten gets discussed, the end result is that the trans members of the community get hurt badly, and the forum descends into flamewars, and the mods have to break out the banhammer.

One problem is that it inevitably involves a discussion of Claire's genitalia (let's be honest, it does, because that's the entire reason there would be a hypothetical problem), and that is considered completely off limits, and based on statements Jeph has made on Tumblr (http://jephjacques.com/post/62913133057/question-time-answer-time) and Twitter (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/517429434958487553), I'd be shocked if we were ever told those details outright in the comic. Either things will work sexually between them, or they won't, and that's for Jeph to decide. We don't have enough information to decide, and speculating would hurt too many people for it to be worth it.

Marten and Claire need to have these discussions (and Claire, in fact, started them), but it's become clear that if we're not dating Claire, us having those discussions about her is incredibly rude. Yes, even though she's fictional.

Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vincent Adultman on 08 Oct 2014, 02:04
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 Oct 2014, 02:05
Also, it's worth reading this thread. Yes, the whole thread: http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.0.html
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 02:05


Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.

Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.

I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.

I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.

Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.

Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?

And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women.  Do you want to claim that's the case?

Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 02:06
Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.
There truly is an xkcd for every occasion.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: no one special on 08 Oct 2014, 02:08
We had been close friends for about 5 years, never really showed any romantic interest in each other (although there was attraction).  Then one day, it just kinda happened. 

Right, but you'd been close friends for 5 years!  That's a perfect time for that to happen, absolutely - plus, being close for so long tells you how well you get along already.  But Claire and Marten?  They haven't even had time to get that close.

To elaborate, if you want to expound upon these issues, as out dear author may wish to, if you have a cis/trans couple get together, and then split, having a real, underlying personality conflict, will eliminate any speculation about whether the relationship ended because of any transphobic complications. This is possibly even a more powerful message than getting them together in the first place, because the reasons for their breakup are clear, and not related to any perceived trans issues. The reason that is see this as being a likely outcome, is that, while I like Claire as a person, I just don't think we have even met the person that Marten is meant to be with. It just seems too soon in the progression of the story. I don't know, it seems like either there is going to be a breakup, or there is going to be a marriage, how else would the story end properly? It would seem less likely to me that Jeph is going to eliminate all of the struggle from Marten's character in the foreseeable future, so the likely outcome is breakup.

Preach!!!  Great thoughts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 08 Oct 2014, 02:08
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.

Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Oct 2014, 02:10
You know, I had this whole big post typed up. It was nice and scientific, too. Then I realized what's at the root of the argument between valkygrrl and T. This makes it way easier to cut through the nonsense.

*ahem*

Gender roles are not gender.

valkygrrl is arguing about gender roles.
T is arguing about gender. (while accidentally citing examples with gender roles, confusing things)

Example: Person A is a female, but hates the accoutrement that society likes to baggage her with: dresses, pink, notions of who should do what, and all that. The accoutrement would be the work of gender roles, and this is not intrinsic. The fact that Person A is female would be gender itself, and it's this which is wired.

We can all whack ourselves with the palms of our hands, realizing how we've been talking past each other now. (Myself included, given how long the post I deleted in favor of this was.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 02:11
One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).
:-D :-D :-D

Would that be after he becomes Marten the Fireman?

More like The Handyman. Stuff breaks so they call him in to fix it. Petty local strong-men, bandits or pirates, barons of commerce, religions, politicians or even whole countries! No job is too big!

Seriously, though, I can see something very dark coming out about Hannelore's origins. The plan has long since been cancelled but I suspect that Hannelore's mental issues and her very unusual childhood might all stem from a very unusual origin story. At the very least, I suspect she's Beatrice's clone. At the very worst, Beatrice was planning to be immortal and Hannelore, the person, was never originally meant to be more than a place-holder to keep Beatrice's next brain warm and working properly until she took up residence.

This, by the way, is why I think Hannelore had that waking nightmare moment where she dreamt she was in her mother's position and was about to do something horrible to the world. I believe that Beatrice and Dr John had discussed her long-term plans in front of what they then perceived as nothing but a blank slate and, on a subconscious level, Hannelore knows what her mother had planned to do to her and with her.

Things changed; I suspect that the Elliot-Chathams weren't able to maintain the necessary emotional detachment from the clone. I suspect, originally, they felt that a certain degree of mental stimulation was necessary to stop the clone's brain from degenerating into a mess. However, as they observed Station's interaction with the clone, she became more and more a person in their eyes and they couldn't go through with it. The 'divorce' was probably actually the consequence of a disagreement between Dr John and Beatrice about what to do with the clone (maybe Beatrice wanted her euthanasised to cover their tracks but Dr John had come to love Hannelore too much). It would explain Beatrice's emotional detachment from Hannelore if she is only now beginning to come to terms with her being an individual and a real person.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 02:17
Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.

I want to see the showdown between Marten and Hannermom in spaaaaaace!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vincent Adultman on 08 Oct 2014, 02:18
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.

Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?

That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 02:19
Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.

Yeah, the problem is that, like Marten, I'm fundamentally lazy. Big plans, big ideas but rarely the discipline to see them through!

Now, onto a different subject. Who'd like a funny story arc of a Mom-bar-crawl? Beatrice, Veronica and Mrs A all run into each other in CoD (all there for their own reasons) and find a weird kind of kinship from the fact their children are all wrapped up in each other's lives. They go to a bar to discuss abnormal child development/family dynamics and end up getting trashed and trashing a few bars.

Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 02:21


Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.

Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.

I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.

I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.

Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.

Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?

And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women.  Do you want to claim that's the case?

Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior
It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.

Gender differences in behavior is a common occurence in many animals, not just humans. Female lab rats exposed to masculine hormones during certain stages of intrauterine development demonstrated more masculine beheavior patterns during adulthood including the way they respond to stress. Humans are not special beings unaffected by nature's laws.

You clearly demonstrate a lack of scientific education. Nothing wrong with that. People outside the scientific field are not obligued to. But it would be nice if people learned the basics before they accept anything they read on the internet.

I defend that the same way that there are different hair colors and shapes there are people with different affinities and tastes and variety makes the world beautiful. Each person is unique from before birth and not a simple white canvas waiting to be painting by nurturing
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 02:22
You know, I had this whole big post typed up. It was nice and scientific, too. Then I realized what's at the root of the argument between valkygrrl and T. This makes it way easier to cut through the nonsense.

*ahem*

Gender roles are not gender.

valkygrrl is arguing about gender roles.
T is arguing about gender. (while accidentally citing examples with gender roles, confusing things)

Example: Person A is a female, but hates the accoutrement that society likes to baggage her with: dresses, pink, notions of who should do what, and all that. The accoutrement would be the work of gender roles, and this is not intrinsic. The fact that Person A is female would be gender itself, and it's this which is wired.

We can all whack ourselves with the palms of our hands, realizing how we've been talking past each other now. (Myself included, given how long the post I deleted in favor of this was.)

Minor quibble. Male and female are sexes. Man and woman are genders as they're defined by social role and exceptions as evidenced in this very thread where people suggest Marten is finally or should finally 'be a man' or man up or other phraseology that suggests that he should fit better into a role they expect. There's no question about his being male, there is argument about whether he's being a man.

But aside from that minor bit of terminology and the belief that T _is_ arguing gender _roles_ are innate to the brains of males and females.... Yeah.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 02:25
Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.

Yeah, the problem is that, like Marten, I'm fundamentally lazy. Big plans, big ideas but rarely the discipline to see them through!
Aww darn.  I would love to read it.

Would Hannermom be in league with Dr. Heteronormative?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 08 Oct 2014, 02:29
We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.
To be fair, it is something anyone is unlikely to get without spending some serious thought and/or research on the matter. Asking questions sure is annoying if it happens every other page, but I wouldn't generally fault the newbies for it.

That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling.
Hasn't today's comic? He's feeling that whatever happens, he's willing to work through it. Isn't that good enough for an answer?

Seriously, though, I can see something very dark coming out about Hannelore's origins. The plan has long since been cancelled but I suspect that Hannelore's mental issues and her very unusual childhood might all stem from a very unusual origin story.
Or maybe just from a mental problem worsened by growing up in a disfunctional family. Have you seen her mother?
There's no need for a cloning accident to explain the problems hannelore has.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 02:33
 
Or maybe just from a mental problem worsened by growing up in a disfunctional family. Have you seen her mother?
There's no need for a cloning accident to explain the problems hannelore has.
Certainly--but an evil cloning plot is far more entertaining.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 02:37


Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.

Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.

I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.

I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.

Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.

Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?

And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women.  Do you want to claim that's the case?

Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior
It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.

Gender differences in behavior is a common occurence in many animals, not just humans. Female lab rats exposed to masculine hormones during certain stages of intrauterine development demonstrated more masculine beheavior patterns during adulthood including the way they respond to stress. Humans are not special beings unaffected by nature's laws.

You clearly demonstrate a lack of scientific education. Nothing wrong with that. People outside the scientific field are not obligued to. But it would be nice if people learned the basics before they accept anything they read on the internet.

I defend that the same way that there are different hair colors and shapes there are people with different affinities and tastes and variety makes the world beautiful. Each person is unique from before birth and not a simple white canvas waiting to be painting by nurturing

Hormones in rats have what to do with the behavior of pre-pubescent children? In one breath you claim behavior is innate and in the next that its hormonal and I'm the one who doesn't know science? Is that because I have girl brain or because estrogen induced a love of strawberry shortcake dolls kept me away from the science books with all those big words?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 02:37
Seriously, though, I can see something very dark coming out about Hannelore's origins. The plan has long since been cancelled but I suspect that Hannelore's mental issues and her very unusual childhood might all stem from a very unusual origin story.
Or maybe just from a mental problem worsened by growing up in a disfunctional family. Have you seen her mother?
There's no need for a cloning accident to explain the problems hannelore has.

Not a cloning accident. More an equipment handling and maintenance accident.

Have you seen Hannelore's 'play room' on the station, by the way? Those issues were at the upper extreme end.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElsaStegosaurus on 08 Oct 2014, 02:46
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.

Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?

Thank you.  This thread has become simply exhausting to read.  We are not obligated to educate.  Sometimes we just want to exist without being reminded CONSTANTLY about all the shit and doubt about our identities that gets thrown our way.

EDIT: I use "trans people".  Sometimes I accidentally type it as trains people to hilarious confusion.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 02:47
I missed the suggesion of the "mom bar crawl" on the first pass. That would be fun.

Ever since Claire's mom came on the scene, I've been wanting a meeting between her and Veronica.  I imagine they'd hit it off in a hilarious fashion.

Now, Beatrice might not hit it off so well with either of them.  And there could be an awesome clash of wills.

Really strong-willed moms seem to be a pattern so far in QC.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 08 Oct 2014, 02:51
Not gonna lie, I am really horrified by the amount of people who seem to have joined up with the sole purpose of asking about Claire's hypothetical genitals.

And for those of you saying that 'we are just curious' or 'we just wanna learn more', you gave up the right to that innocence when you became defensive and aggressive in your tone. Whilst Claire may be fictional, she represents the Trans community in this comic, and so to act entitled and annoyed when the private matter of someone's junk is not divulged to you is when this whole thing becomes transphobic.

I don't pretend to know what it is like to be trans on a day by day basis. I'm trying to imagine anything in my life even remotely comparable. So, even though I know it is not even nearly the same, I'm thinking of what it's like to be as girl in a nightclub with massive boobs. People grope them without permission, stare at them the whole time and ask what size they are. And once you have been reduced to the sum of your parts like that, all you feel like is a demoralised, dehumanised piece of meat.

Now imagine someone is doing that to you, but they are focusing on a part of you that is not necessarily (sorry, I'm trying to avoid the 'does she/doesn't she' debate here) in line with the way you identify yourself. And they do that constantly, always asking, always 'just curious' or 'just trying to learn more'.

You are not entitled to know what is anyone's pants, fictional or otherwise. So, please, just stop.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 02:52
That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.
There's the Trans* thread for discussion, and a lot of sometimes heartbreaking reading.  When it comes to Claire, this equine has been beaten into the ground so hard that there's nothing for Nietzsche to run up and try to protect.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElsaStegosaurus on 08 Oct 2014, 02:54
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.

Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?

That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.

Guh.  I've seen this argument more times than I can count: telling non-privileged groups to smile and be nice and surely more people will be more willing to listen to them.  You look at history and see that this simply is not true, minority groups have to scrape and fight and claw for every inch that they gain.  Telling us to smile and talk softly is a form of control.  "Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone."  That's... not a great message to give.

Warning - while you were typing 3-billion jillion new replies have been posted. You may wish to reconsider your life.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: stuffandthings on 08 Oct 2014, 02:58
I'm really sorry for being ignorant, but what does it mean that Claire is trans?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 02:59
http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.0.html
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 03:00
Yeesh.  I'm gonna turn off my computer, go look at the lunar eclipse, and leave this thread alone till it gets fun again.   *waves*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Vincent Adultman on 08 Oct 2014, 03:01
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone."  That's... not a great message to give.

Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...

(moderator comment. Tone policing applies to everyone.  :police: This post is not how we want to do things here.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: badpun on 08 Oct 2014, 03:10
I've been reading the forum for the last week then it occurred to me I probably set up an account back when I first started reading the comic in like 2010 and voila here it is  :laugh:

Really happy that the Marten/Claire ship has left the dock, interested in where it'll go. Seems like starting out by being upfront and  being prepared to talk about problems when they arise. Seems like a solid start to a happy relationship  :-D

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 08 Oct 2014, 03:12
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone."  That's... not a great message to give.

Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...

This is called gaslighting, friend, and it is an action used by abusers to make the people they are abusing doubt the validity of their unhappiness or their opposition to the abuser's behaviour.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElsaStegosaurus on 08 Oct 2014, 03:20
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone."  That's... not a great message to give.

Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...

But... but then, that's exactly what you just did.  Just now.  Threw up your hands and walked away cuz someone dared try to explain why they act a certain way without handling your emotions with kid gloves.  Wow.  Bye.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.

False.  Read the trans thread, do some basic googling.  How to treat Trans people like humans and as something other than their genitalia is not a new question.  Is educating yourself that hard?  :psyduck:

Here, go nuts.  First one is on the house: http://transwhat.org/
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 03:28


I. Love. This. Post.

We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.

How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.

In fairness, I didn't intend to ridicule per se, but my post was perhaps slightly crass.

I have painted myself as somewhat of an asshole here, so I'm going to try and play devil's advocate for a moment.

(http://postmediaprovince.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/devils_advocate_500.jpg)

This thread is long as shit, so I am well past the point of knowing who exactly has said what, I simply chose to highlight a great post.

[Vince McMahon 2001]In the interest of fairness[/Vince McMahon 2001] and in the absence of some of our more enlightened forumites, I'm going to make an attempt to respond to some of the stuff that hasn't been responded to yet, given that I was once pretty ignorant of these issues and it was this forum that largely straightened me out.

That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.

I agree entirely, and there was recently a pretty major issue regarding someone doing more or less exactly that, who was given a lot of chances and failed to learn their lesson. Without reading through every last damn page of this thread, I'm not sure who in particular you're referring to, but honestly, I think that a lot of this is down to lack of tone reading well on the internet, both of your posts, and of the responses from the regulars.

The regular forumites on here, especially our thriving trans community, will always at least attempt to go the route of educating rather than yelling at, and if any of the posts have come across that way, as a decade-long member of this forum I can say that will absolutely not have been the intention. There is also most likely an issue with the fact that a lot of the people participating in the recent explosion of trans discussion are brand new forumites, and without previous character to go on, the reading of people's tone in a forum post will be even worse than when it's someone who the community already has a feel of.

But aside from that minor bit of terminology and the belief that T _is_ arguing gender _roles_ are innate to the brains of males and females.... Yeah.

Without being ridiculous here, how many of us have the scientific nous beyond anecdotal evidence to say yay or nay on this? I certainly wouldn't have the authority to comment. I don't think T is necessarily saying 'dudes have this brain, chicks have this brain,' I don't think T is necessarily even arguing rock solid causation, so much as correlation.

And for those of you saying that 'we are just curious' or 'we just wanna learn more', you gave up the right to that innocence when you became defensive and aggressive in your tone.

The right to innocence perhaps, but not the right to education. No one is obligated, obviously, but faced with any kind of prejudice, however vehement and however deliberate, I've always sought the educational route because it's generally the most successful one. Not that I'm accusing anyone here of failing at that. But tempers can be heightened and have in this thread on both sides.

Guh.  I've seen this argument more times than I can count: telling non-privileged groups to smile and be nice and surely more people will be more willing to listen to them.  You look at history and see that this simply is not true, minority groups have to scrape and fight and claw for every inch that they gain.  Telling us to smile and talk softly is a form of control.  "Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone."  That's... not a great message to give.

I don't entirely agree. I'm not saying that any non-privileged group should just smile and be nice or any shit like that. If some asshole is hassling you in a bar then being nice may very well get you sweet fucking nowhere. And again, no one is OBLIGATED, but I have met trans* individuals before who can be massively alienating to people who want to learn by meeting aggression with aggression. But then this is a massive grey area and I'm not part of this particular non-privileged group.

I'm really sorry for being ignorant, but what does it mean that Claire is trans?

This will take a while to respond to, and I'll do it later if no one else does before me.

Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...

This post, on the other hand, is pointless martyring that achieves nothing, and reads pretty strongly like 'well guess I'll just be prejudiced because you have now justified it.' 'This' is not at all how this shit 'always goes.'

Look people, I'm not a mod, but I have been here on this forum for a dog's fucking age, more than the majority of the mods even, and I can say one thing for certain.

This community is a place for open discussion, contributions from either side of any issue, and the acknowledgement of prejudices, conscious or otherwise, that can then be discussed and educated over.

Tempers have flared in this thread, but this thread is a pretty appalling example of what this place is actually about. Above all else, this particular thread is here to discuss the immediate happenings of the comic, not an in-depth discussion of trans rights. Had this discussion been in any of the more suitable places for it, rather than just on a thread series that's typically more about jokes and squeeeeee-ing, maybe it would have gone a little better.

And even if you disregard everything else that has been said in response to you by the trans community on here, folks, the links to the articles posted by ZoeB, who is one of the most insightful and educated people I've ever encountered, are still worth reading. If you take nothing else away from this thread, take that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 03:42
Gods, I hope that for a week, starting with the next week, we get wacky robot fun or at least just CoD drama just so things settle a bit.

Why am I having flashbacks to much earlier in Sept 1993 than the 7708th?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Forgotten Felix on 08 Oct 2014, 04:15
So, after having found myself lurking the forums during this entire arc, I thought I might as well join. And hoo boy, what a mess this thread became.
So, while I can't set myself in the position of transpeople, and may not understand a lot of it, I realize that other peoples feelings are more important than my own curiosity. Also this is not really the place to discuss this. That being said, I'd like to give my thoughts on a few things:

How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
This I don't understand. What exactly is combative or ridiculing? All I see is praise for a well formulated and thought-out post. If anything Gareth is just thinking aloud in that last part.

And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
Again, what is combative? Who have labelled you? I honestly don't see where this is coming from.
Furthermore, if you know it's a touchy subject, treat it as such. 'Cuz right now you come off as attacking, and when that happpens people counter attack.


To get back to the comic itself, obligatory squee. I am eagerly awaiting what happens next. The talk on today's page sweetens yesterday's kiss even more. Claire is precious and I want her to be happy.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. Including Gareth. Making a part of your post moot.
Well then.
Eh, I'll leave it as is. It was only my interpretation anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 08 Oct 2014, 04:25
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?

Yes!  I've had enough of this waffling.
Indeed--it's starting to give me the crepes.

Just waiting for an opportunity to jump in with a French Toast joke. Also, trying to think of a French Toast joke.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 08 Oct 2014, 04:27


Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will  find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....

Welcome, new person!

If you research the matter further, you'll find the term "biologically a man/a woman" fails to properly describe the situation in any case. After all, what are we but biology, no matter our bodies?

So Claire is a woman, because she identifies as a woman.


If you intended it as a question about her genitalia: please don't discuss that. In the manner such discussions tend to go, they very quickly become disrespectful to real people, of which we have a-plenty on this board. Imho not discussing people's genitalia without their consent is basic human decency.

I can't get a fictitious person's consent. My only reason for asking the question is because I want to get into Marten's headspace. Genitalia exist, it's part of being human. Some humans like one set, some the other, and some both. To my knowledge Marten has never expressed any interest in people with male genitalia. It seems out of character to suddenly jump into relationship with a transgender person because we have no previous examples of him expressing interest in the male sex. My inquiry stems from the thought if this is something Marten has considered fully. I can't judge if Marten thinks he is being bold and assertive and fooling himself that he can do this or if he is genuinely attracted to Claire both physically and emotionally. I guess that is yet to be decided but not knowing left me scratching my head. I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand  at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.

I barked up this tree for two weeks worth of strip posts before being the impetus for the creation of a thread devoted solely to it, which in turn was also locked down.

And while I still understand and see the motivation for your questions, and it doesn't sound like you mean any harm, I sort of came to realize that my line of questioning was a) Not okay and b) Not really as complex as I thought it was. Today's strip seems to be a pretty definitive statement on Marten's position on the matter anyhow.

Also, the phrase Claire's Downstairs, as phrased by a mod eariler, while a verboten topic, is wonderfully fun in its rhymingness.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 04:32
And while I still understand and see the motivation for your questions, and it doesn't sound like you mean any harm, I sort of came to realize that my line of questioning was a) Not okay and b) Not really as complex as I thought it was. Today's strip seems to be a pretty definitive statement on Marten's position on the matter anyhow.

This.

During my term lurking before registering here, it became abundantly clear to me that certain subjects are not permitted to be discussed, not due to any official site policy but just because they are emotive and will derail the thread (as well as create virulent inter-user enmities that can only poison the community). That's why I try to limit my discussion of these matters on this board just to keep the community as a friendly place.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Detachable Felix on 08 Oct 2014, 04:34
Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!


I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.

But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aphanisis81 on 08 Oct 2014, 04:43
And while I still understand and see the motivation for your questions, and it doesn't sound like you mean any harm, I sort of came to realize that my line of questioning was a) Not okay and b) Not really as complex as I thought it was. Today's strip seems to be a pretty definitive statement on Marten's position on the matter anyhow.

This.

During my term lurking before registering here, it became abundantly clear to me that certain subjects are not permitted to be discussed, not due to any official site policy but just because they are emotive and will derail the thread (as well as create virulent inter-user enmities that can only poison the community). That's why I try to limit my discussion of these matters on this board just to keep the community as a friendly place.

I can't tell you how long I've wanted someone to respond to a short, snappy post of mine with "This." It feels good. And it says something about the power of our evolving language that a single-word sentence, a mere pronoun, can be such high praise. Thanks, BenRG :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 04:44
They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person

Very, very well said.  This is all that should ever matter.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 08 Oct 2014, 04:48
Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.

With all three of them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 08 Oct 2014, 04:52
Gods, I hope that for a week, starting with the next week, we get wacky robot fun or at least just CoD drama just so things settle a bit.

Why am I having flashbacks to much earlier in Sept 1993 than the 7708th?

Now that you've said that, next week will be Angus Returns. :|
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Technetium on 08 Oct 2014, 04:53
But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
We don't actually know that. We know what Marten has told Claire, but we know almost nothing about his personal reasoning. As someone has said before, it's possible that Marten really likes Claire's personality and has tried to convince himself that he is above caring about what's below, when it might actually end up being something he won't be able to get past. I see most of the questioning about Claire's junk as having less to do with Claire than it has to do with understanding Marten's motivations. I can understand how discussing her junk is offensive to the trans community, but discussing a character's motivations shouldn't be off-limits, and I don't really see how we can discuss Marten's motivations without discussing how he feels about the dreaded subject. It's not a question about what Claire has, but about what Marten feels about what Claire has.

That said, I don't really care about this discussion much and actually want to talk about another elephant in the room. I don't think it's been definitively stated anywhere in the comic, but uh... how old is Claire and how old is Marten? I've always interpreted Claire as being an actual intern at a college. I had previously assumed she was around 19 or so, and seeing that she's living with her mom and her mom is making her breakfast (and usually does so apparently) seems to reinforce that. Marten, on the other hand, I've always seen as being closing in on 30. I don't get the impression that being in school is a recent memory for him. Obviously the relationship is not illegal, and I'm not even suggesting it's always morally wrong for two people with that kind of age difference to have a relationship, but if you look at the last comic with the pretense that the age difference exists (if it does), it does look a little bit more creepy, kind of like the older guy coaxing the younger girl into being okay with the relationship. Claire also strikes me as the sort of person who is "young for her age". She has about as much experience with relationships as most girls just entering high school (maybe less, even).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 04:56
Claire is canonically 24.  She could just be living at home to save money, since graduate studies can be rather expensive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 04:57
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man?
Well, if you check her DNA, yes. She also had an operation to transform her penis into a vagina, she cant have babies, and she had to take hormones to make, for example, her breasts grow. In reality also her voice would be male-ish, and the chance that she's a lesbian would be very high (basically reverse chances than for ordinary people).

Ok, time for some remedial Trans 101 stuff, just to make the mods' lives easier if nothing else. There's a couple of things not quite correct here.

Q:"Is Claire biologically a man"?

Answer the first: Er - do you need glasses? Obviously she isn't.
Answer the second: She identifies as a woman. As do I. So no.
Answer the third: No, and she never has been, not since before birth, and I mean that in a strictly anatomical sense.

See for example:
A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.
    Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones.

We've known that trans women aren't "biologically male" for nearly two freaking decades. Yet somehow the word hasn't gotten out, and questions like "is she biologically a man" keep on being asked in all sincerity, despite the evidence of people's own eyes even if they don't know the science.


If you "check her DNA" - assuming she hasn't had a bone marrow transplant - then she's likely as female as this mother and her daughter:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9
    A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis.

Of course she may have 46,XX chromosomes, just as it's likely Marigold, Hanners, Tai etc do. Likely, but not certain. Or 47,XXY, or a mix of 45,X and 46,XY (which can cause a natural sex change) or... let's just say that chromosomes aren't an infallible guide.

If she has had a bone marrow transplant, then the majority of her body is composed of cells genetically identical to the donor by now. So anything goes.


She also had an operation to transform her penis into a vagina - Er.. how do you know? She may well have. But she might not. You might find this difficult to believe, but a lot of people get pretty anxious at the thought of major or even minor surgery on their genitalia. Really they do.

A lot of Intersex people in particular are quite happy with what they have, even if that matches neither a male nor female pattern very well. I was a lot happier having genital reconstruction to a female norm, but not all other Intersex people are like me. Same with Trans people. Some can't stand having genitalia they feel is just plain wrong (as I did), while others don't feel any such wrongness at all. To explain why, I'd have to talk about the feminisation or lack thereof of the Superior Parietal Lobule (SPL), and consequent effect on the body map, but I'll spare you the lecture on neuro-physiology.

Let's just say that the exact configuration of anyone's genitalia - Marten's, Tai's, Sven's, Marigold's, Claire's, Veronica's, is an intensely personal and private matter. One really distressing for some people to talk about. So please heed the mods and let the subject drop on this public forum. PM me if you want medical data.


she cant have babies - almost certainly correct (for now). I know of very few exceptions - women labelled "trans" who were actually Intersex. This will likely change before she reaches her Mom's age.


she had to take hormones to make, for example, her breasts grow. While that's a pretty safe assumption, as we know she's on HRT (hormone replacement therapy), it's not certain either. I'm on HRT, rather more of it than Trans women (even though I transitioned like Claire did), but the breast growth pre-dated that. Just as it does for most women hitting puberty. Mine just came 30 years late.


In reality also her voice would be male-ish - given the timing of when she started HRT, not necessarily. But she likely sounds more like Lauren Bachall than Cyndi Loper. Or maybe not. I went to a speech therapist during transition, after 46 years of presenting as male, and she could do nothing for me. My voice is just outside the "ambiguous" range, into the lower female band. I forgot a 30 year habit of lowering my voice you see, I couldn't do it even though I tried. Probably a psychological block.


the chance that she's a lesbian would be very high - for early transitioners like her, no, about the same for most women her age, but for late ones like me, yes. Especially since I have CAH - women with that Intersex condition do indeed have the probabilities reversed. Except I'm straight. So's Claire. Statistics are just that - statistics. You have to treat individuals as individuals.

I'd still give you a passing grade on this. You may have the details wrong, but you at least have a grasp of the issues. That puts you in the top 20%. The bar's just set very low.

I apologise if I come off all pedagogical and arrogant here. It's just that in US parlance, I *am* a college professor, and do remedial teaching to 3rd year medical and psych students in this area, even though I usually teach safety-critical engineering as a regular gig.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 04:58
I think she said she was 24 in one of the earlier strips, so its not creepy in that way at all.  Of course, you may have just insulted everyone with a partner who is significantly older or younger than they are.  I've been in that ship (in both directions) a few times in my life ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 05:00
Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.

With all three of them.

Precisely. I've suddenly got a mental image of Beatrice looking at Jimbo speculatively and mentions that she's looking for a new gardener. Hannelore shouts: "Mother! No!" and drags her off.

Six months later, Jimbo's new book is a lesbian erotica work called "The Three Vixens" and the characters are disturbingly similar to Veronica, Beatrice and Mrs A (who I'm starting to think of as 'Clarice' for some reason).

I think she said she was 24 in one of the earlier strips, so its not creepy in that way at all.  Of course, you may have just insulted everyone with a partner who is significantly older or younger than they are.  I've been in that ship (in both directions) a few times in my life ;-)

On the subject, do we have a canon age for Marten? My head-canon has always been something about this:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 05:04
Precisely. I've suddenly got a mental image of Beatrice looking at Jimbo speculatively and mentions that she's looking for a new gardener. Hannelore shouts: "Mother! No!" and drags her off.

Six months later, Jimbo's new book is a lesbian erotica work called "The Three Vixens" and the characters are disturbingly similar to Veronica, Beatrice and Mrs A (who I'm starting to think of as 'Clarice' for some reason).

I, for one, am going to be damned bloody disappointed if this doesn't happen  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Omio on 08 Oct 2014, 05:06
...I'm sorry, guys, but the thread's getting too long for me to read.

I think it's more-or-less official that the Martenclaire ship has taken off. Now to see where its first destination is. :3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 05:12
I can understand how discussing her junk is offensive to the trans community, but discussing a character's motivations shouldn't be off-limits, and I don't really see how we can discuss Marten's motivations without discussing how he feels about the dreaded subject.

There is always the option of not discussing it and just waiting to see how their relationship evolves over weeks/months/years - and this option won't cause distress to anyone on this forum. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 05:19
Here's a funny use for the age difference possibility. It could fit into a single strip, I think. Gabby and Emily pull Claire's leg about 'dating an older man'. Claire snarks back that maybe they're jealous. Tai interjects that they should be - dating an older person means that you enjoy their greater experience (and her smirk makes it very clear what kind of 'experience' she means - Claire blushes as red as you can get). Gabby waves it off, saying that they were just kidding around. Then she and Emily walk off. Gabby's thinking: "Lucky bitch!" and Emily is thinking: "Kitty-cat GIFs!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: No_Dragons_Here on 08 Oct 2014, 05:29
This forum has gone into really weird places since I left last night.

I will say that while I don't really like the Marten-Claire dynamic, I don't need to, because life works like that.  I do have to give props to Marten for his role in all this.

It's a weird feeling.  I think the reason that I don't care for these last few Marten-Claire comics is that I don't feel the chemisartry.  The comics themselves are paced and set up according to the "dramatic moment" or "romantic get together" sort of timing.  Being as I don't really feel invested in their relationship already, it doens't really induce me to being so, and thus it feels kind of weird to read and I don't feel any "Squee" moments.

On the other hand, I really appreciate where Marten is coming from here. I discovered recently that a girl whom I have been steadily approaching the "guy-friend and lady-friend" status with has some medical issues that could completely derail what I thought my life's plan was going to be if we get together and stay together.  As I was discovering this, I came to the realization that I couldn't worry about it and could only take the relationship one step at a time, because I think I love her (and I think she thinks that she loves me too).

I think Marten's in a similar boat.  He knows Claire's secret.  It's likely not something he ever really considered to be part of his future, dating somebody with her circumstances.  Heck, a lot of guys would stay really far away if they knew that particular secret.  On the other hand, he knows he likes her, and that she likes him.  They can work the details out step by step.

Love doesn't need to be complicated.  That's what I appreciate here. 

*I'm calling it "Claire's Secret" because of an old "Victoria's Secret" joke I remember from elementary school, which is a very crude and insensitive joke that I'm not going to repeat here.
 
**Actually, that's a lie I told because I remembered the joke.  I'm calling it "Claire's Secret" because I'm sick of all of the crazy interweb drama regarding terminology.  Marten has already explained his stance on it, which is a stance I'm familiar with, which generally amounts to "cross that bridge when we get there" if I understand correctly.  ((ie: we don't need to discuss Claire's Pants in order to discuss Martin's motivations.  He's already explained them.))
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 08 Oct 2014, 05:31
I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway.  I visited daily to make sure she was alright.  A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat. 

She made me spaghetti. 

My laundry basket never made it back to my house.  It just... felt right.  It was sudden, and surprising to both of us.  I let my lease go, and moved in. 

Two years later, we were married.  That was in 1986.  We've had issues, and ups and downs.  But we're still best friends.
Squee!
Pancakes...spaghetti... same diff.

(My AoA is from AS XVII BTW...)


Dang... I only started in AS XXVI.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Oct 2014, 05:34
Awesome

Thank you, ZoeB, for taking the time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 05:52
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.

There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.

There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf

Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.

Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology.  What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years.

I think as a reference you should use Cordelia Fine's excellent sceptical work on the subject. It shows just how much observer bias has historically existed regarding the sexual dimorphism of the brain, and the consequences therefrom.

The two extreme positions are:

* The Biologically Deterministic one. This observes (and historically manufactures from very little evidence) that the brain is sexually dimorphic, and then uses that to argue that females are inferior because biology, that all gendered behaviour is hard-wired, and in general a whole load of other paternalistic arrogant misogynist and nauseating pseudo-scientific drivel.

*The Social Constructionist one. This observes the awful, oppressive effects of the first, then reasons that the brain cannot be sexually dimorphic because that supports gender fascism and the dehumanisation of women, so ignores any evidence for it no matter how sound, and attacks anyone observing it, deeming them to be cruel oppressors trying to fool the public into going along with their nauseating and male chauvinist policies.

Of the two, the Social Constructionist one, despite its PoMo anti-scientific basis, is actually closer to reality than the first. 80% right. The second is 20% right. Both are significantly wrong, distorting any truth so it becomes useless.

Examples:

    Boys and girls behave in different ways and one of the stereotypical behavioral differences between them, that has often been said to be forced upon them by upbringing and social environment, is their behavior in play. Boys prefer to play with cars and balls, whereas girls prefer dolls. This sex difference in toy preference is present very early in life (3–8 months of age) [1]. The idea that it is not society that forces these choices upon children but a sex difference in the early development of their brains and behavior is also supported by monkey behavioral studies. Alexander and Hines [2], who offered dolls, toy cars and balls to green Vervet monkeys found the female monkeys consistently chose the dolls and examined these ano-genitally, whereas the male monkeys were more interested in playing with the toy cars and with the ball....


“Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia”
Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005
    Data show that increased male-typical toy play by girls with CAH cannot be explained by parental encouragement of male-typical toy play. Although parents encourage sex-appropriate behavior, their encouragement appears to be insufficient to override the interest of girls with CAH in cross-sexed toys.

I don't know about you, but the phrase "sex-appropriate behavior" sets my teeth on edge. It reminds me of the days when I was a child, when girls were supposed to be secretaries, not secretaries of state, beauticians not bankers, and all the rest of that infuriating Patriarchal BS.

However.... biology plays a role. Instincts exist.

If I can quote myself: http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-many-sexes.html

Let's start with the idea that there are male and female brains. They differ anatomically, and these differences correspond to different stereotyped behaviours, regardless of upbringing. This is most obvious in girls who have CAH, masculinised brains, and a male preference in play patterns, even though they have a normal female upbringing.

Now that we've established that idea, that it's objectively observable.. we have to tear it down. It's just the first step in Wittgenstein's ladder.

The brain is a complex structure, not a simple one. Any particular individual can have a more masculine anatomy in one area, a more feminine anatomy in others. The sexually dimorphic features have considerable overlap. Within any one area, few are unambiguously male or unambiguously female. The difference is statistical. Moreover, in the higher brain, hormonal balance plays a role in changing the brain's physical anatomy. Treat a male with female hormones, some of his brain structures will feminise. The brain is plastic in many areas, experiences and social environment causes physical changes, and much of what we call "gendered behaviour" is as the result of arbitrary socially constructed factors.

OK, understood that? Now discard it, it's the second step on the ladder.

The brain is not homogenous; different parts have different effects, and while some parts are plastic, others are not. While much "gendered behaviour" is a social construct, some is not, and is remarkably resistant to change. This is most obvious in Transsexual people, whose neuro-anatomy is female in some areas, male in others, and corresponds to neither in yet others. When the Lymbic nucleus is feminised, typically feminine emotional patterns are found, and these lead to a feminine gender identity. When the Superior Parietal Lobule (SPL) is feminised as well - as it often is - the "body map" is for female primary and secondary sex characteristics - breasts, vagina etc - and any mismatch with reality causes immense distress.

This also explains such observed phenomena as "phantom limb syndrome", and the widely variable emotional response to hysterectomy or mastectomy. Also too the variable response to any natural masculinisation of a female-at-birth body due to 5ARD or 17BHSD syndromes, which can cause a superficial "natural sex change".

What this means is that a binary model of sex and gender is merely a rough approximation. A better one is a trinary one, with male, female, and bigendered (approximately 1/3 in each category). But that still doesn't capture the multi-variance and fuzziness of the situation adequately. A small percentage won't fit either model, or indeed, any such gross over-simplification.

References (to substantiate my assertions):

Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. - Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia” Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005

Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure by Pol et al, Europ Jnl Endocrinology, Vol 155, suppl_1, S107-S114 2006

Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: “How Does One Know if One is Male or Female?” M.Diamond Sex Roles (2006) 55:589–600

Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. Cohen-Kettenis PT. Arch Sex Behav. 2005 Aug;34(4):399-410.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 08 Oct 2014, 05:56
That post (and the first one) should be like put in a seperate topic and  stickied or something.  Simple, straight-up education is awesome and losing it in the inevitable change in the WCDT would suck.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 06:00
I wouldn't be surprised if all of that information was already in the trans thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mystere9 on 08 Oct 2014, 06:00
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
Man, this really puts things in perspective. I should probably break up with my girlfriend now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 06:01
I'm really sorry for being ignorant, but what does it mean that Claire is trans?

There's a number of different answers to that, some of astounding complexity.
If you don't mind, I'll give you the simplest one I know of that still captures the essentials.

Claire was born looking more like a boy than a girl. This made her very uncomfortable as she grew up, so she had it corrected.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Angelus_Primus on 08 Oct 2014, 06:07
I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.

Because words have meaning, and people thinking they can just use a word any way they want to refer to things they are not are going to be the downfall of civilization.  Burger is short for hamburger, a hamburger is a patty of ground beef on a sandwich.

Mind you, your lentil-mushroom sandwich sounds pretty tasty, but it is not in any way a burger. 

Warning - while you were reading 12 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Seriously?  In the time it takes me to rant about words?

If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix. Unless you're a hardcore prescriptivist, I don't see any way around the argument that burger, in modern common usage, denotes malleable foodstuffs molded into a patty that is then cooked.


 Ham is not a prefix. Hamburger isn't a combination of ham (pork product) and burger (ground patty) it comes from a Hamburger steak. As in Steak done Hamburg stile. The name comes from a German city of Hamburg. Traditional Hamburg steaks are hammered beef patties, but when price of beef went really high, German-Jewish immigrants in New York started making their traditional meal with ground beef which was cheaper.
 Cheeseburger is shortened form of cheese hamburger. Its not prefix cheese replacing prefix ham, its portmanteau.
 
 That said, burger did become a word in itself in past years. It simply means a type of a sandwich which has a patty (and not, for example lunchmeats) between the bread. So calling a vegetarian version veggieburger is fine. Calling it a veggie hamburger, that's wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 08 Oct 2014, 06:12
Grr now I'm hungry and its all your fault !  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 06:14
I've been thinking about ways in which Marten and Claire counterbalance each other.  Claire is passionate and goal-oriented but hasn't lived independently or dated; Marten has plenty of adult life experience but is still drifting along without knowing what he wants to be when he grows up.  Claire is high-strung, socially awkward, and has panic attacks, but she's brave about taking initiative and facing change; Marten is passive, a bit of a chicken, and hates change, but he's comfortable around people and is generally very even-tempered and laid back.

Put all this together, and you might have a relationship in which neither person is the dominant one.  That could be a good learning experience for both of them.  It'd be a comfortable space for Claire to grow into dating: if she fell for someone more Type A, she might just get swept along and not learn as much about herself and her needs and desires, but if she had a relationship in which she wound up leading too much, she might be torn apart by anxieties.  For Marten, well, he's been a bit overshadowed and sometimes dominated by the women in his life, and he might develop more of his manhood if he spends time with someone who, while not a doormat, isn't three times as assertive as he is.

I like your analysis of the situation. Nice job.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Angelus_Primus on 08 Oct 2014, 06:23
Grr now I'm hungry and its all your fault !  :-D
Come over, I have some flank steaks I could hammer and throw on a grill. We can have original German hamburger steaks :D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 06:37
It seems out of character to suddenly jump into relationship with a transgender person because we have no previous examples of him expressing interest in the male sex.

Head, meet desk.

OK, now we have a very fundamental failure of understanding here. Instead of my usual gasbagging about neuroanatomy, genetics, scientifoc papers etc, at the risk of being seen as "talking down" to you - not my intent - perhaps this very basic misunderstanding can be corrected first, by reaching out not to your intellect, but to your emotions. The intellectual stuff comes later, it obviously isn't overcoming the emotional barrier.

So....

Here is a Trans Man. He was born looking superficially female, but got that fixed.

(http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/FtM/BenBarres2s.jpg)

Here is a Trans Woman. She was born looking superficially male, but had that fixed.

(http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/Cindy%20Thai%20Tai/Cindy%201s.jpg)

You are correct when you say that Marten has no previous examples of expressing an interest in the male sex - such as the Trans man.

But Claire is not a Trans Man. She's a Trans Woman. There is a difference. Not all Transgender people are male.

Any questions?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Forgotten Felix on 08 Oct 2014, 06:50
Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!


I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.

But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
Thanks for the warm welcome! And just to clarify, I get everything you said, I'd feel the same.
But the thing is, I don't know anyone who're trans, and having lurked a bit I realize it's an entirely different world, so to speak, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I've only stated to learn about all this stuff in the month I've been lurking, so I'm still a bit wary of saying something stupid. Also, I may just be a bit paranoid after reading the now-locked trans* dating/prejudice thread :psyduck:

Edit: And for the name dealie, just abbreviate me to FF. I think that's easier ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 08 Oct 2014, 06:53
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone."  That's... not a great message to give.

Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...
Dude, you literally started off by comparing trans identities to a false idol. That really makes it hard to assume you're acting in any kind of good faith.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 08 Oct 2014, 06:59
Not gonna lie, I am really horrified by the amount of people who seem to have joined up with the sole purpose of asking about Claire's hypothetical genitals.
I agree that many of the posts are not good. Still, Jeph must have had a purpose when introducing Claire. Perhaps breaking down some taboos, or as a spokesperson for the transgender people and their challenges.

Jeph must have known a shitstorm was brewing when he introduced the SS MartenClaire. Even the most tolerant of us will be thinking forbidden thoughts. There is a big elephant in the room that is impossible to ignore.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Apostate on 08 Oct 2014, 07:00
Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!


I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.

But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
Thanks for the warm welcome! And just to clarify, I get everything you said, I'd feel the same.
But the thing is, I don't know anyone who're trans, and having lurked a bit I realize it's an entirely different world, so to speak, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I've only stated to learn about all this stuff in the month I've been lurking, so I'm still a bit wary of saying something stupid. Also, I may just be a bit paranoid after reading the now-locked trans* dating/prejudice thread :psyduck:
If you're asking questions honestly, it's okay.  You won't be stepping on any toes by asking questions if you honestly don't know better.  I'd be perfectly willing to clear up any misconceptions about people like me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 07:01
Quote
Any questions?

But... but... 'you're awesome' isn't a question.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 07:04
In real life people's personal life isn't my business  especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.

Agreed. When dealing with living, feeling people it's none of my business. When dealing with fictional characters in a fictional story it is sometimes relevant information. Up until now it was not relevant but now I think it is. I understand the rules and I wont be asking the question because I don't want to get baned but I will continue to be curious about it until it is answered or until it no longer becomes  relevant, i.e. the relationship ends.

Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place. To put this scenario in front of us and then to get mad at us for asking the question in a respectful manner is kind of a dick move and I would like to think that he is not that kind of guy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 08 Oct 2014, 07:05
Head, meet desk.

Don't discount the possibility that some people still think "transgender" is just another flavour of "transvestite" because they've simply never come across it before.

And thank you, Zoe, for your patience and willingness to educate us. I know a transgender woman (I didn't know it when we first met) and have read up a fair amount about it on the web, but your postings have filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge and understanding.

But... but... 'you're awesome' isn't a question.

Quite so...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 07:10
So, what for Thursday/Friday? I've offered two suggestions but, to save everyone time from having to sort through lots of posts, I'll summarise here:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 07:13
Quote
To put this scenario in front of us and then to get mad at us for asking the question in a respectful manner is kind of a dick move and I would like to think that he is not that kind of guy.

I think this is a misstatement of the situation.  Nobody's getting mad at anyone for asking; they're responding patiently that the results of discussing this particular topic go uniformly badly, and are therefore not allowed.  I think where the anger comes in is when someone, having been told this, goes on to say 'BUT I WANNA TALK ABOUT IT!  IF YOU DIDN'T WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT IT WHY'D YOU MENTION IT?', etc., etc.

Subject is verboten, for reasons stated.  Can you just be okay with  that?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 07:16
So, what for Thursday/Friday? I've offered two suggestions but, to save everyone time from having to sort through lots of posts, I'll summarise here:
  • We get the beginning of a new arc, a Yelling Bird or some other kind of filler;
  • We follow Marten and Claire to work (presuming that this is a work day); they encounter a spontaneous congratulatory party at the library because Dora has leaked the big news to Tai after  they visit CoD.

3: Clinton overreacts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 08 Oct 2014, 07:17
When I signed up here I read this whole thread (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.0.html).  It helped me not make people repeat and repeat and repeat the same answers to the same questions, then the same questions again, and then the same questions once more. 

ZoeB has incredible patience along with an incredible mind and knowledge base.  I admire the hell out of her. 

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 08 Oct 2014, 07:21
And another thing...

Marten's Dad recently married ANOTHER MAN!
How come we didn't get all this "below the belt" speculation about the "difficulties they might face" in their relationship?

I know they are not mainstream characters, but if they were, or there was another gay couple* centre stage in the cast, I don't think lots of readers would be demanding anatomical details for "context and insight" reasons to do with understanding their relationship.

*Oh! I've just remembered about Tai and Dora... well, we didn't have all that discussion and controversy about what they did between the sheets, did we?

I rest my case. Double standards.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 07:23
Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?

I agree.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 08 Oct 2014, 07:24
Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?

I mean, physically speaking, she's gotten shorter, more feminine looking, and more attractive.  This transition was mostly done by the wedding arc (no homeliness left but the buck teeth), but even looking back at the lake house arc, she still kinda looked like a drowned rat.  And in terms of her personality, she originally would go on these long-winded speeches, along with tease people mercilessly.  She's mellowed over time.  Still loves puns, but doesn't quite put out zingers any longer.  She doesn't seem as anxious any longer either, although that may be because she's gotten more comfortable around Marten.   

Of course, there are many cases where Jeph has changed the fundamental direction of characters.  Hannelore took awhile to become her present self.  Steve degenerated from a fairly well-rounded guy (remember the Meena arc?) to a nice but broish dope who seems to have nothing in common with Marten (hard to imagine that Animal Collective is one of his favorite bands any longer).  And Marigold started out just repulsive, but had her edges softened enough to make her merely irritating. 

My favorite strips lately are the ones with May. Mostly because she's kind of a dick. She's the only one around who seems capable of rolling her eyes and calling people out on their pithy bullshit. I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on, but I feel like if things get any more saccharine I'm going to get diabetes. It just feels fake. Like QC is suddenly 7th Heaven with facial piercings. Life isn't like this. Hell, the earlier arcs had some unrealistic stuff, but at least it was funny. Remember when Faye would attack people outright and the rest of the cast would chuckle? Now it seems like it would become Yet Another Big Damn Deal.

I can relate to this.  QC used to make me laugh all the time back in the day.  It can be witty these days, but not really that funny.  Part of it is we never see much of Pintsize anymore - his non sequiturs were part of what gave the drama of the human characters proper balance.  May in't actually funny, but she fills some of the void from another perspective. 

Your response, though, makes me wonder  because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.

Yeah.  I get the idea that Marten has been attracted to Claire, and likes her as a friend, but he's not really swooning over her.  He's more thinking "Well, I'll give this a shot, why not?"

Honestly, this would make for a great mini-arc, where Faye kind of does a "WTF" about Marten not having shown interest in Claire before, and Marten then having to justify it.  If Faye saw that Marten was interested, I think she would have hinted it to Claire in the bar the other night. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 07:27
Thanks for the warm welcome! And just to clarify, I get everything you said, I'd feel the same.
But the thing is, I don't know anyone who're trans,
That you know of.  It's quite possible that you have met any number of trans* people who "pass" (goddess, how I hate that word in this context) easily.  And don't feel bad, many of us know few or any openly trans* people in real life, at least closely, so ignorance is common.  Fuck, I'm still ignorant, even after reading and interacting on these fora for a bit over a year now.  When someone I used to work with came out to me near the start of his transition, I was awkward, stumbling over words, and didn't know what to think.  It didn't help that we were both heading in different directions, and the encounter was brief.  At least, thanks to both the people here who gave out information that they didn't have to, as well as research on my own, I was able to ask such questions as "Oh, what should I call you? (both name and pronouns), and actually hang out.  Believe it or not, once you see someone as the person they are, instead of *what* they are, it feels perfectly normal.

Quote
and having lurked a bit I realize it's an entirely different world, so to speak, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I've only stated to learn about all this stuff in the month I've been lurking, so I'm still a bit wary of saying something stupid. Also, I may just be a bit paranoid after reading the now-locked trans* dating/prejudice thread
This (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.3200.html) thread is really long, but is a good resource.  And I'd worry less about saying something stupid, since plenty of people here have done so, and not just on this topic, but in general.  I know I have, usually after too much drink, or because the meds are treating me funny.  Main thing is just don't be an arsehole.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 07:32
Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.

Yeah, the problem is that, like Marten, I'm fundamentally lazy. Big plans, big ideas but rarely the discipline to see them through!

Now, onto a different subject. Who'd like a funny story arc of a Mom-bar-crawl? Beatrice, Veronica and Mrs A all run into each other in CoD (all there for their own reasons) and find a weird kind of kinship from the fact their children are all wrapped up in each other's lives. They go to a bar to discuss abnormal child development/family dynamics and end up getting trashed and trashing a few bars.

Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.

Word cannot express how much I love this idea!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Apostate on 08 Oct 2014, 07:35
Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?

I mean, physically speaking, she's gotten shorter, more feminine looking, and more attractive.  This transition was mostly done by the wedding arc (no homeliness left but the buck teeth), but even looking back at the lake house arc, she still kinda looked like a drowned rat.  And in terms of her personality, she originally would go on these long-winded speeches, along with tease people mercilessly.  She's mellowed over time.  Still loves puns, but doesn't quite put out zingers any longer.  She doesn't seem as anxious any longer either, although that may be because she's gotten more comfortable around Marten.   

Of course, there are many cases where Jeph has changed the fundamental direction of characters.  Hannelore took awhile to become her present self.  Steve degenerated from a fairly well-rounded guy (remember the Meena arc?) to a nice but broish dope who seems to have nothing in common with Marten (hard to imagine that Animal Collective is one of his favorite bands any longer).  And Marigold started out just repulsive, but had her edges softened enough to make her merely irritating. 

My favorite strips lately are the ones with May. Mostly because she's kind of a dick. She's the only one around who seems capable of rolling her eyes and calling people out on their pithy bullshit. I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on, but I feel like if things get any more saccharine I'm going to get diabetes. It just feels fake. Like QC is suddenly 7th Heaven with facial piercings. Life isn't like this. Hell, the earlier arcs had some unrealistic stuff, but at least it was funny. Remember when Faye would attack people outright and the rest of the cast would chuckle? Now it seems like it would become Yet Another Big Damn Deal.

I can relate to this.  QC used to make me laugh all the time back in the day.  It can be witty these days, but not really that funny.  Part of it is we never see much of Pintsize anymore - his non sequiturs were part of what gave the drama of the human characters proper balance.  May in't actually funny, but she fills some of the void from another perspective. 

Your response, though, makes me wonder  because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.

Yeah.  I get the idea that Marten has been attracted to Claire, and likes her as a friend, but he's not really swooning over her.  He's more thinking "Well, I'll give this a shot, why not?"

Honestly, this would make for a great mini-arc, where Faye kind of does a "WTF" about Marten not having shown interest in Claire before, and Marten then having to justify it.  If Faye saw that Marten was interested, I think she would have hinted it to Claire in the bar the other night.

Couple things.  HRT does change people over time- curves become a thing, skin gets softer, etc.  Speaking from personal experience there.  Shorter, okay, that doesn't happen as far as I know but art does shift.  Personalities also change as people get more comfortable with the people they're around, so that's those concerns taken care of.

I'm interested to see how the rest of the cast reacts to recent events.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 07:35

That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling.
Hasn't today's comic? He's feeling that whatever happens, he's willing to work through it. Isn't that good enough for an answer?

Actually yes. I am happy with it. It lets me get into his head and helps me with the story. Thats all I ever wanted really.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 07:36
Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?

This was briefly addressed in last week's thread, IIRC. I wondered if there might be a 'POV' element to it and Jeph is letting us see how she's beginning to change in Marten's eyes.

However, don't forget that people can and do change as they build life experience. Claire strikes me as one of those people (that always seem to gravitate to Marten's social circle) who haven't had much in the way of socialisation or proper friends previously. I'm wondering if at least a part of Claire's physical and behavioural changes comes from actually having people whose opinion she cares about giving her feedback. She's noticed that people don't react well to her behavioural rough edges; she's not been around Clinton in-strip recently so we haven't seen that wonderful fratricidal love they share displayed much and, most importantly, she's had people telling her when she does and does not look good - people whose opinion she respects like Marten, Tai and possibly other main characters (not just in 'hot/not' forms as well; it's possible that she's tidied up her hair because Tai, as her manager, has had to formally warn her about her dress and grooming as an employee of the College). All of this is combining to make her develop and alter her behaviour to be a better part of this social group. All humans do this (at least ones who are socially successful). She's also had bad examples (grumpy!Faye, cuckoo!Emily and asocial!Marigold) to learn to avoid copying.

Of course, I'm pretty sure she's openly flirted with Marten on occasions, the blue dress being the most recent example. If, even on a subconscious level, she is trying to impress him, then she'll take more care with her appearance.

[edit]
Oh, and, of course, Jeph's art style is always evolving. Even though I know from his Livestreams that he tries to use past references to avoid making characters change too much, as he develops the character in his own mind, the way he portrays her will change accordingly. Yes, in Claire's case, that may have included changing from another baby sister surrogate (amongst the many others Marten has) to a potential romantic match-up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 Oct 2014, 07:41
I really think Claire's height, or at least how it appeared, was just Jeph figuring things out, and art style.

Then again, her eyes are at Marten's mouth level in 2203, her first appearance... and they're still at his mouth level in 2807, yesterday's strip.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: rschill on 08 Oct 2014, 07:42
I wouldn't read too much into the smaller details.  Jeph has has an ever-shifting, ever developing style.  it is interesting to kinda skim from the beginning and look at every tenth or twentieth page and watch him develop. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 07:43
Marten's Dad recently married ANOTHER MAN!
How come we didn't get all this "below the belt" speculation about the "difficulties they might face" in their relationship?

I know they are not mainstream characters, but if they were, or there was another gay couple* centre stage in the cast, I don't think lots of readers would be demanding anatomical details for "context and insight" reasons to do with understanding their relationship.

*Oh! I've just remembered about Tai and Dora... well, we didn't have all that discussion and controversy about what they did between the sheets, did we?

I rest my case. Double standards.
+1 Insightful
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 08 Oct 2014, 07:43
Ok, this is pretty much the most amazing thing to happen to anyone in a comic ever. Sure it ain't going to be easy (would it be a good story if it was?), but as neither Marten or Claire care about that neither do I.

I know it's not normal to put gifs on here, but I thought this one was highly appropriate. Well done Mr. Jacques, you are fantastic and if I wore a hat I would doff it to you.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Oct 2014, 07:45
Did Marten ever did something to deserve all the crap he got? There doesn't need to be a reason to why things don't work out for some people. She liked someone but this someone ends up with her friend.

He decided to become the lead character in a webcomic featuring coffee houses and little robots. ;)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Forgotten Felix on 08 Oct 2014, 07:48

If you're asking questions honestly, it's okay.  You won't be stepping on any toes by asking questions if you honestly don't know better.  I'd be perfectly willing to clear up any misconceptions about people like me.

I appreciate the encouragement, but the thing is, I feel I DO know better, at least compared to before. I've been lurking and reading old threads (the trans* threads, the WCDT when Claire came out, and sort everything ZoeB posted come to mind). But part of me has not 'adjusted', for the lack of a better word.

Speaking of which, this:
Head, meet desk.

Don't discount the possibility that some people still think "transgender" is just another flavour of "transvestite" because they've simply never come across it before.

And thank you, Zoe, for your patience and willingness to educate us. I know a transgender woman (I didn't know it when we first met) and have read up a fair amount about it on the web, but your postings have filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge and understanding.

But... but... 'you're awesome' isn't a question.

Quite so...

I agree with all of this.

So, what for Thursday/Friday? I've offered two suggestions but, to save everyone time from having to sort through lots of posts, I'll summarise here:
  • We get the beginning of a new arc, a Yelling Bird or some other kind of filler;
  • We follow Marten and Claire to work (presuming that this is a work day); they encounter a spontaneous congratulatory party at the library because Dora has leaked the big news to Tai after they visit CoD.
Let's not forget Clinton. He could easily fill up the rest of the week.

Warning - while you were typing 10 new replies have been posted, and Clinton have been mentioned. You may wish to review your post.

Dammit. That's what I get for responding to multiple persons.

Warning - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Oh come on!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 08 Oct 2014, 07:49
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?

Sure. These are true greasy spoon diner pancakes.

(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10649953_10153405718331002_3122705886833391376_n.jpg?oh=188917c1c15e88a07a31b69e01648eff&oe=54B080C0)

Warning - while you were typing a new pancake has been flipped. You may wish to renew your syrup.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 07:51
Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!


I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.

But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.

This post made me smile. Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: marsman57 on 08 Oct 2014, 08:10
Not enough posts about how Clinton is going to flip his **** when he finds out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 08 Oct 2014, 08:12
discussing a character's motivations shouldn't be off-limits, and I don't really see how we can discuss Marten's motivations without discussing how he feels about the dreaded subject. It's not a question about what Claire has, but about what Marten feels about what Claire has.
Nothing about that is said in the comic, and it's unlikely that jeph intends to address this. So it wouldn't really be a "discussion" but just "wild speculation".

If anything, we can go meta and assess that Jeph wouldn't hurt his LGBT readers by allowing her trans status to ruin the relationship, and from there we can extrapolate that what Marten said in today's comic is his honest opinion and trans-related issues are not going to stop him.

In this thread, we've had people who clearly couldn't believe that it wouldn't be a problem, and we've had people sharing personal experiences where it clearly wasn't. Which just says that people are different, there's a whole spectrum of opinions. Feel free to examine your own opinions on the matter, in private. Not much good has come out of discussing it in public, though.

Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place.
In other words, if Jeph didn't want disrespectful discussions in his forums, he shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship? Is that what you're saying? :-o

Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?
The art style changes. For all characters. Compare Marten and Faye from their first comics, or even from the comics a couple months ago. I wouldn't give such observations too much weight unless the characters address it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 08 Oct 2014, 08:14
I know it's not normal to put gifs on here, but I thought this one was highly appropriate. Well done Mr. Jacques, you are fantastic and if I wore a hat I would doff it to you.
(click to show/hide)

I keep a special doffing cap on hand for occasions just such as this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 08:19
Quote
To put this scenario in front of us and then to get mad at us for asking the question in a respectful manner is kind of a dick move and I would like to think that he is not that kind of guy.

I think this is a misstatement of the situation.  Nobody's getting mad at anyone for asking; they're responding patiently that the results of discussing this particular topic go uniformly badly, and are therefore not allowed.  I think where the anger comes in is when someone, having been told this, goes on to say 'BUT I WANNA TALK ABOUT IT!  IF YOU DIDN'T WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT IT WHY'D YOU MENTION IT?', etc., etc.

Subject is verboten, for reasons stated.  Can you just be okay with  that?

Not really, no. Not for the reasons you are thinking though. I may not be "Okay" with it but that's my problem.  :-D
I may not like it but I can respect it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 08:20
Not enough posts about how Clinton is going to flip his **** when he finds out.

He already gave Marten the "hurt my sister and I hurt you" speech back at the Lake Party. I can see him reluctantly tolerating this, mostly because he probably knows from taking to Claire and their mother that she's got a super-size crush on Marten. However, I think he's going to restate that he will hurt Marten if he's just toying with her.

Then they shake hands like gentlemen should...

MARTEN: "You know, I really thought you'd use your robotic hand to try to crush mine or something."

CLINTON: "There are hard-coded force limiters in the servos. I can only impart a certain level of grip force before it reaches the limit and won't tighten any further!"

MARTEN: "You mean... they gave you a robot hand and you can't use it to crush people's skulls like eggshells and stuff? Man, it sucks to be you!"

CLINTON: "Tell me about it."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 08:35
Quote
Then they shake hands like gentlemen should...

No, then they put on Victorian gloves and top hats and depart the awkward zone like gentlemen should. :)

You really should write more of this stuff; you're good at it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 08 Oct 2014, 08:36
Grr now I'm hungry and its all your fault !  :-D

I get that a LOT.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 08 Oct 2014, 08:44
I dunno, Clinton's robot hand does have a Murder Mode (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2425)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 08:48
I dunno, Clinton's robot hand does have a Murder Mode (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2425)

I think that "murder mode" is just Clinton's excuse for being a nasty *&%$ sometimes and hitting people with the titanium-aluminium alloy fist. Besides, the next strip, he cools down; I just think he was super-worried that Marten forced himself on her or something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 08:55
Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place.
In other words, if Jeph didn't want disrespectful discussions in his forums, he shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship? Is that what you're saying? :-o

No. I meant what I said. I never said anything about "disrespectful discussions in his forums" or "shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship". If the relationship itself is going to be one of the focal points people are going to have questions. Thats it. I like the development and hope that the fact that She is Trans has little impact on the future. The only point I am trying to get across with my previous statement is that by putting main character in this situation(maybe scenario would be a better word) it is going to make people think of questions that respectful people would not ask. Thoughts are nether good or bad, its the actions we take that make them good or bad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 08 Oct 2014, 08:56
I wouldn't worry about Clinton's hand. Faye's already made sure it knows who is boss.



Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 08 Oct 2014, 08:58
I know it's not normal to put gifs on here, but I thought this one was highly appropriate. Well done Mr. Jacques, you are fantastic and if I wore a hat I would doff it to you.
(click to show/hide)

I keep a special doffing cap on hand for occasions just such as this.

Whilst I don't smoke and never have, I do actually keep a pipe on my desk for looking smug/gesturing/putting in my mouth to help me think when I'm writing. I should get a doffing cap.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 08:59
Quote
Faye's already made sure it knows who is boss.

Her boobs?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 08 Oct 2014, 09:02
They're a powerful narcotic, even capable of bringing Hanners down from a major freak-out.  The jury is still out, though, whether or not it's more powerful than sleeping on a guy's sofa.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Oct 2014, 09:18
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.

The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?

Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.


If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.

I. Love. This. Post.

We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.

I wonder how many people got the mental image of a person taking a genital for a fancy dinner  :roll:

Now you got it!

Or introducing them to friends and family as their "genital mate." Or "significant testicle." Or "vulvafriend."

I keep hoping we can get through a week of forum discussion without genital speculation. Now THAT would be a far-fetched plot twist. :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 09:20
Or introducing them to friends and family as their "genital mate." Or "significant testicle." Or "vulvafriend."

Oddly enough, I can see Sven screwing up a date like this...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 09:33


Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.

I don't have any legal rights to my free speech here yes. However rights really aren't about legality anyways. It's society's way of saying that we should uphold an idea because we feel it is overwhelmingly important to us that it is regardless of whatever reasons/evidence/etc.... Natural rights and legal rights are completely separate things. I have the natural right to post to this forum whatever I can and the mods have the natural and legal right to delete my posts and/or ban me. Please note that the way I'm using natural rights may not align entirely with wiki but stems from the belief that natural rights are the things that one can physically obtain/produce regardless of external pressures e.g no one can take my right away to think of Bill Murray as a lil ragamuffin. This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 09:42
This thread has gotten too hot and heavy, my posts included. I am going to go look at kitten .gif's and decompress.

Be excellent to each other, and, Party on, dudes!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 09:43
Quote
This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.

Emily?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 08 Oct 2014, 09:47
We need some pancakes, and not just any pancakes, bacon pancakes! 

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Oct 2014, 10:00
We need some pancakes, and not just any pancakes, bacon pancakes! 


This pops into my head any time someone mentions pancakes. Needless to say, it's been on pretty much a constant loop in my mind for the last week or so. :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 08 Oct 2014, 10:21
Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place.
In other words, if Jeph didn't want disrespectful discussions in his forums, he shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship? Is that what you're saying? :-o

No. I meant what I said. I never said anything about "disrespectful discussions in his forums" or "shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship". If the relationship itself is going to be one of the focal points people are going to have questions. Thats it. I like the development and hope that the fact that She is Trans has little impact on the future. The only point I am trying to get across with my previous statement is that by putting main character in this situation(maybe scenario would be a better word) it is going to make people think of questions that respectful people would not ask. Thoughts are nether good or bad, its the actions we take that make them good or bad.
Right, but every time someone pops up with "but I have questions" they get pointed to the relevant pre-existing threads and/or other resources and reminded not to discuss them in here because that historically leads to bad things… Then, quite a lot of the time, they come back with "but why should I have to go over there and maybe learn something, I just wanna ask questions here!" or some rought equivalent.
Which is when people get upset because they feel like they're being ignored, or mocked, or whatever because it's hard to feel sympathetic to someone who "just wants to ask questions" when they ignore the answers they are directed to. Especially when we're talking about a sensitive, painful subject.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 08 Oct 2014, 10:22
Or introducing them to friends and family as their "genital mate." Or "significant testicle." Or "vulvafriend."

Oddly enough, I can see Sven screwing up a date like this...

And that just forces this into my brain.
Title: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 10:50


Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.

I don't have any legal rights to my free speech here yes. However rights really aren't about legality anyways. It's society's way of saying that we should uphold an idea because we feel it is overwhelmingly important to us that it is regardless of whatever reasons/evidence/etc.... Natural rights and legal rights are completely separate things. I have the natural right to post to this forum whatever I can and the mods have the natural and legal right to delete my posts and/or ban me. Please note that the way I'm using natural rights may not align entirely with wiki but stems from the belief that natural rights are the things that one can physically obtain/produce regardless of external pressures e.g no one can take my right away to think of Bill Murray as a lil ragamuffin. This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.

Ugh personal peccadillo....

Natural rights are an intellectual exercise to justify criticisms of a status quo that was thought to be divinely originated and therefore blasphemy to question. Natural rights were a rhetorical tool that built on ideas in the manga carta to justify ideas that vested power in the hands of the individual, because the natural right philosophers realized that the existing system was inefficient and harmful. They don't actually exist, as the 100,000 odd years of human history as a story of domination and violence demonstrates.

/rant

The back and forth about politeness and discussions and questions from new people (I'm new too not using that as a pejorative) really annoyed me. News flash: this is the weekly comic discussion forum, not an educate me about trans issues forum. It's a stunningly bad place for you to come and demand explanation/education. There's an entire thread for it, and it's PINNED. There's also a rules thread you should read before posting. If you're still feeling like you need more info, do some research or ask questions elsewhere, WE ARE HERE TO SQUEE AND HAVE EXTENDED ARGUMENTS ABOUT PANCAKES AND PRESCRIPTIVE VS DESCRIPTIVE PERSPECTIVES ON LANGUAGE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Durmatagno on 08 Oct 2014, 10:58


Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.

Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.

Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!

I'm so going to be banned for this but remember who brought this male/female brain stuff into the discussion...

Claire is a lovely person who for some reason or reasons was sufficiently uncomfortable with the physical and social conditions imposed by the circumstances of her birth. So uncomfortable that she sought out to change those things and has succeeded to such an extent that the people around her though either ignorance or acceptance see Claire as what she chooses to present to the world. Good for her and good for Marten not having hangups that get in the way or perusing someone he likes, who likes him and would make a good match.

But this stuff about male and female brains is so much offensive crap!

A brain is a brain. To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at... It reenforces misogynistic bullshit like women are too emotional or girls are bad at math. It says men are right every time they make an excuse up about how woman are supposed to behave because now their brains are like that not becuse form an early age they were trained by the pink asile at the toy store with little dolls and easy bake ovens while the Lego and blocks were in the blue aisle.

Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.

Kindly read this before pressing the ban button. http://www.popsci.com/article/science/stop-looking-%E2%80%9Chardwired%E2%80%9D-differences-male-and-female-brains

Kindly talk to the friendly folks over here

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364184-LGBTAI-52-Aces-High

If you aren't already, I know that there's some QC fans in there (Last two pages have mentioned 2807, don't know about 2808)

*slinks back into lurking because he doesn't post often for comic stuff*

Had to make an account just incase I actually wanted to jump in here.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: feelsalmostbad on 08 Oct 2014, 10:59



Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.

I don't have any legal rights to my free speech here yes. However rights really aren't about legality anyways. It's society's way of saying that we should uphold an idea because we feel it is overwhelmingly important to us that it is regardless of whatever reasons/evidence/etc.... Natural rights and legal rights are completely separate things. I have the natural right to post to this forum whatever I can and the mods have the natural and legal right to delete my posts and/or ban me. Please note that the way I'm using natural rights may not align entirely with wiki but stems from the belief that natural rights are the things that one can physically obtain/produce regardless of external pressures e.g no one can take my right away to think of Bill Murray as a lil ragamuffin. This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.

Ugh dear god...

Natural rights are an intellectual exercise to justify criticisms of a status quo that was thought to be divinely originated and therefore blasphemy to question. Natural rights were a rhetorical tool that built on ideas in the manga carta to justify ideas that vested power in the hands of the individual, because the natural right philosophers realized that the existing system was inefficient and harmful. They don't actually exist, as the 100,000 odd years of human history as a story of domination and violence demonstrates.

/rant

The back and forth about politeness and discussions and questions from new people (I'm new too not using that as a pejorative) really annoyed me. News flash: this is the weekly comic discussion forum, not an educate me about trans issues forum. It's a stunningly bad place for you to come and demand explanation/education. There's an entire thread for it, and it's PINNED. There's also a rules thread you should read before posting. If you're still feeling like you need more info, do some research or ask questions elsewhere, WE ARE HERE TO SQUEE AND HAVE EXTENDED ARGUMENTS ABOUT PANCAKES AND PRESCRIPTIVE VS DESCRIPTIVE PERSPECTIVES ON LANGUAGE.

I told you it was a weak argument and didn't align with the historical definition.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lumidingo on 08 Oct 2014, 11:07

No. I meant what I said. I never said anything about "disrespectful discussions in his forums" or "shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship". If the relationship itself is going to be one of the focal points people are going to have questions. Thats it. I like the development and hope that the fact that She is Trans has little impact on the future. The only point I am trying to get across with my previous statement is that by putting main character in this situation(maybe scenario would be a better word) it is going to make people think of questions that respectful people would not ask. Thoughts are nether good or bad, its the actions we take that make them good or bad.

That's perfectly fine. But some questions are disrespectful and dehumanizing, and people need to recognize that sometimes it doesn't matter how curious you are about some particular facet of information, you're still not entitled to the answer if it's disrespectful and dehumanizing. There was a lot of evidence of people not getting this some months ago, when Janet Mock (a transgender activist and all-around super awesome lady) spoke out against the dehumanizing treatment she was subjected to on Piers Morgan's show. It was incredible at the time to see the amount of comments by people arguing utterly seriously that they had a RIGHT to know about her genitalia, because she'd "called attention to it" by publicly outing herself, and any argument otherwise was 'an attack on someone who just wanted to learn' and then used to justify further ostracism and discrimination against trans folk. 

Like it or not, one of the fundamentals of transphobia is the rendering of the trans individual as public property. Everything must be out in the open, nothing can be held back, and the penalty for keeping private matters private ranges from harassment, discrimination and social exclusion, all the way to violence and death. It is super, super important to recognize that people have a right to privacy that cannot be overridden under any circumstances, no matter how curious you are or how innocent you genuinely feel when you pose the question. Being respectful means understanding that inviolable right to privacy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SteveCostello on 08 Oct 2014, 11:08
Right, but every time someone pops up with "but I have questions" they get pointed to the relevant pre-existing threads and/or other resources and reminded not to discuss them in here because that historically leads to bad things… Then, quite a lot of the time, they come back with "but why should I have to go over there and maybe learn something, I just wanna ask questions here!" or some rought equivalent.

To be fair... that thread is MASSIVE, and difficult to navigate. I do appreciate the thread, but I think it might take less time to read every single QC comic in the archive than it would to read that whole thread. In addition, due to its nature as a forum thread, its structure is not ideal for initial learning. It meanders, and has no real organization. Which makes it even more daunting. ZoeB posted a really well done synopsis a page or so ago, and that was really good. Referring people sites like http://transwhat.org/ is very helpful, as that has more structure around it, and tends to be geared toward people that are new to the idea of people being trans.

As a person whose professional life is built around the HCI (human-computer interface), a large part of that line of work involves the brain's reaction to what it sees on the screen. Being a thread that is (at the time of this writing) 65 pages long (!!!) with over 3,200 posts is probably going to result in initial reactions like, "Holy... holy shit. I just asked a question... I can't read all of this!" I'm not saying that is the RIGHT reaction... but that is a viable reaction from the brain when presented with SOOOO much information in such a seemingly unorganized manner.

There is a LOT of great information in that thread. Tons of it. If there were some sort of FAQ, or quick reference to direct people to high-level overview type information ("What does 'trans' mean?") and give the person the option to drill down to more specific information ("What are the implications of a cis/trans vs. a cis/cis or even a trans/trans relationship?"), that would really make a big difference, I think. I, personally, fit squarely in the second camp. I have a trans cousin... really, really great guy. He and his family been incredibly helpful in helping me understand his circumstance, and it has just made me that much more empathetic to the entire LGBT community, pushing me to be much more than just a passive supporter. I take an active stand to support the entire LGBT community.

For the *most* part (certainly with some exceptions, or at least, insensitively asked questions), I think people that have asked questions here are genuinely interested in becoming educated, as opposed to simply being ungraciously curious for the means of satisfying their need to know about something "freaky" (note that I use that term from their viewpoint, not mine). The former are trying to become better educated to the nuances unique to someone whose lives are different than their own... not out of selfish needs, but genuinely trying to better understand, to better empathize, and to eventually become a better advocate for all around equality and understanding of people that do not fit into gender constructs. The latter are selfish, seeking only to satisfy their own sick curiosity. Keep in mind, however, that even with the latter group, there is a real opportunity to educate and change their way of thinking.

You've also got those that are probably on the fence, somewhere in between. They are people that are, for the most part, trying to understand things better, trying to see through their own prejudice, and perhaps are trying to approach this new-to-them-phenomenon with an open mind. There is a real opportunity to push these people into deeper understanding with well-formed education. These folks are not likely to (at least initially) be willing to wade through 3200+ posts. Perhaps once they are more invested in the movement, when they have at least a base understanding of the issues and have actually opened their minds to these viewpoints, they are more willing to dig into something like that and become a real advocate.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 11:10


I told you it was a weak argument and didn't align with the historical definition.

Yeah, I went back and edited out the dear god to note that it's a personal peccadillo when people bring up natural rights haha, as you were
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 11:35


Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.

Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.

Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!

I'm so going to be banned for this but remember who brought this male/female brain stuff into the discussion...

Claire is a lovely person who for some reason or reasons was sufficiently uncomfortable with the physical and social conditions imposed by the circumstances of her birth. So uncomfortable that she sought out to change those things and has succeeded to such an extent that the people around her though either ignorance or acceptance see Claire as what she chooses to present to the world. Good for her and good for Marten not having hangups that get in the way or perusing someone he likes, who likes him and would make a good match.

But this stuff about male and female brains is so much offensive crap!

A brain is a brain. To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at... It reenforces misogynistic bullshit like women are too emotional or girls are bad at math. It says men are right every time they make an excuse up about how woman are supposed to behave because now their brains are like that not becuse form an early age they were trained by the pink asile at the toy store with little dolls and easy bake ovens while the Lego and blocks were in the blue aisle.

Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.

Kindly read this before pressing the ban button. http://www.popsci.com/article/science/stop-looking-%E2%80%9Chardwired%E2%80%9D-differences-male-and-female-brains

Kindly talk to the friendly folks over here

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364184-LGBTAI-52-Aces-High

If you aren't already, I know that there's some QC fans in there (Last two pages have mentioned 2807, don't know about 2808)

*slinks back into lurking because he doesn't post often for comic stuff*

Had to make an account just incase I actually wanted to jump in here.

Claire's face in the last panel in 2808 was pretty awesome and made me pretty happy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 08 Oct 2014, 11:39
Can we just agree on the following:

1.) The brain is a complex instrument that is responsible for a whole lot of things and can be altered in a myriad of ways to affect your personality and identity, and

2.) Gender identity can be incredibly complex and difficult to define en masse and it's best left to the individual to determine what their gender identity is because it's affected by a slew of internal and external elements and no two people are the same and, therefore, probably will not wind up trans/cis/gay/bi/straight/queer for the exact same reason? (Also, just going to reiterate how much I hate the prefix "cis" but acknowledging that this is a situation where it makes sense to use.)

Can we walk away with that at least instead of trying to impose sweeping definitions on what is and isn't? Please? And can we stop fighting over how "acceptable" it is or isn't to question things in any given thread, because we're beating a dead horse at this point.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tragic_pizza on 08 Oct 2014, 11:48
With the vast availability of Google, I don't really see why people need to come here to demand an education. Judging by the reaction of Marten and the rest of the cast, Jeph appears to have done that, and I must say I love the result.

Yeah, Claire has her rough edges, but I think she is freaking adorable. Let's just enjoy the (apparent) fact that Marten has grown up some, in one area of his life, and that Claire has her first (squee) boyfriend.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 08 Oct 2014, 11:53
I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Oct 2014, 11:54
Global Moderator Comment This is going in circles. Unless any of you have anything new to add to a subject that has been discussed to death in here and in the Trans* Threads, I would suggest it ends now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 08 Oct 2014, 12:01
I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397

Seriously. I want the number of her thrift shop, because daaaaaaag.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 12:18
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 08 Oct 2014, 12:19
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.

Someone had to. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Oct 2014, 12:27
It was probably her Mothers.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 12:30
So after decompressing, cat gif's and copious amounts of thinking I have realized that the points I have trying to get across have nothing to do with Trans or any other community. Unfortunately while trying to do so all I have done was fuel a fire that has more than enough fuel as it is. This was not my intent and for that I am sorry.

Now that I got that off my chest, I could go for some pancakes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 12:38

I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.

I'm 27 and he's my favorite, but then again I'm also a fan of embrace so I'm not what you'd call a typical millennial musically. Probably him being an aggressive vegan doesn't hurt either.

Queue further discussion of meat analogs!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 08 Oct 2014, 12:42
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.

Tangentially, this is part of the reason I'm happy music references have mostly left the comic. 

Jeph used to refer to pretty current bands for the first 2-3 years.  But given 11 years have now passed, but in comic time, likely only 1-3 years (it's never been totally clear), you'd either need the music references to remain old (with the conclusion it's still in the mid 2000s in the comic), or to have had basically a decade of "real world" bands mentioned in a highly abbreviated time. 

Regardless, although the main characters still haven't aged much, Jeph does let the mask slip that in some ways they've "aged" as he has.  Like Marten mentioning how college freshmen look like high school kids to him now.  You don't really think that at 26, but you sure start doing so when you hit 30. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 12:45
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.

Morrissey and The Smiths are huge in my age group, man. Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 08 Oct 2014, 12:47
I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 12:48

I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.

Tangentially, this is part of the reason I'm happy music references have mostly left the comic. 

Jeph used to refer to pretty current bands for the first 2-3 years.  But given 11 years have now passed, but in comic time, likely only 1-3 years (it's never been totally clear), you'd either need the music references to remain old (with the conclusion it's still in the mid 2000s in the comic), or to have had basically a decade of "real world" bands mentioned in a highly abbreviated time. 

Regardless, although the main characters still haven't aged much, Jeph does let the mask slip that in some ways they've "aged" as he has.  Like Marten mentioning how college freshmen look like high school kids to him now.  You don't really think that at 26, but you sure start doing so when you hit 30.

Or keep year specifics vague and relative (and clearly in an alternate universe) so you can make whatever references you want, archer style.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 12:57
Quote
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

*grandpa simpson*

Awww bullshit - you kids and your Lady Gaga and your Kongos don't know nothin' about the Smiths and Echo and the Bunnymen!

*/grandpa simpson*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 12:57
People really need to learn to snip quotes.

Like Marten mentioning how college freshmen look like high school kids to him now.  You don't really think that at 26, but you sure start doing so when you hit 30.
I'm 23 and I think that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 08 Oct 2014, 13:02
Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 13:05
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

Anything is possible in an infinite universe ;-)  But then, my 20 year old son has the most diverse musical taste of anyone I know, and my 22 year old daughter (who is a classically trained singer) swings from J-pop to Broadway show tunes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 08 Oct 2014, 13:10
Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.

I was wondering where she got that shirt... it seems to travel everywhere in this comic!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Miaboop on 08 Oct 2014, 13:11
I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.

I just want to be able to buy those clothes. Everything I got here are jeans and boring black skirts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: epmin on 08 Oct 2014, 13:19
Quote from: ankhtahrlink=topic=30166.msg1273332#msg1273332 date=1412798566
Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.

This has been bugging me for a while, but just what is this whole 'teh' shirt thing?   
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 13:20
I always figured it was an indie band I'd never heard of.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 13:22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 08 Oct 2014, 13:32
Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.

I was wondering where she got that shirt... it seems to travel everywhere in this comic!
Isn't that the one that Marten breeds in the back of his closet?
Or was that the hoodie?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 13:34
So, waiting for 2809.  Not with quite the same levels of hope and anxiety of the last few weeks, but won't be surprised to be totally surprised, again ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 13:38
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh

Wow. I never got this reference. I always took it as an onomatopoeia of the sound someone would make to dismiss something as irrelevant or inconsequential. Example would be "Teh, whatever."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 13:40
Quote
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

*grandpa simpson*

Awww bullshit - you kids and your Lady Gaga and your Kongos don't know nothin' about the Smiths and Echo and the Bunnymen!

*/grandpa simpson*

Ocean Rain is a hell of a record.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 13:44
So, waiting for 2809.  Not with quite the same levels of hope and anxiety of the last few weeks, but won't be surprised to be totally surprised, again ;-)

First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 13:47
MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!

Seriously, man - I'll END you.

Just kidding.

Not really.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Detachable Felix on 08 Oct 2014, 13:50
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.

There, I said it.

Morrissey and The Smiths are huge in my age group, man. Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
This.

Hell, I still listen to Television and Pavement regularly, and I'm in my twenties.


Also, I kinda miss the frequent band references in the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 08 Oct 2014, 13:51
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh)

Wow. I never got this reference. I always took it as an onomatopoeia of the sound someone would make to dismiss something as irrelevant or inconsequential. Example would be "Teh, whatever."
Nono, that's "meh" or sometimes "feh" but you must be careful not to confuse that last with "FEH", the initialism of noted Canadian comic artist Faith Hicks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 13:54
MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!

Seriously, man - I'll END you.

Just kidding.

Not really.

Sorry, I could not resist.   :-D
If it did play out like that I would be livid. I don't think my mind would survive the aftermath here in the forum.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 08 Oct 2014, 13:55
. Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

Very true.  I listen to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NjssV8UuVA) when I need to get psyched. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 13:58
Quote
Ocean Rain is a hell of a record.

True facts from Mooski:  First makeout was in a 72 Mustang with Killing Moon playing on the tape deck.

Ah, memories.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 13:59
Quote
Ocean Rain is a hell of a record.

True facts from Mooski:  First makeout was in a 72 Mustang with Killing Moon playing on the tape deck.

Ah, memories.

Was the living proof at your finger tips?

(Wrong song)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 08 Oct 2014, 14:06
MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!
Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?

(Also, the bird in Sig's scenario ... is it an unusually articulate dickcissel?)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 14:06
I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
Yes, I suspect it's one of those awesome vintage stores with the great big rack of evening wear and prom dresses dating from the '50's through the '80's.  She probably got the pink dress in 2791 there (it could be an '80's prom dress), and the Smiths shirt.

I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them.  But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Oct 2014, 14:08
MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!
Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?

(Also, the bird in Sig's scenario ... is it an unusually articulate dickcissel?)

For some reason, I think that if Yelling Bird sang, he'd sound like a dyspeptic Tom Waits.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 14:17
MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!
Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?

Wow, I did not even catch that one. Nice!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Jhago on 08 Oct 2014, 14:24
Argh, I want to read everything, BUT IT'S SO DAMN MUCH! And interesting too, which make it harder... Trans thread  in the Serious Stuff section alone taunts me with those 60+ pages, I just bookmarked it and I'll read at my own leisure...

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY! I've been shipping Marten and Claire hard ever since his reaction to her being trans. Can't wait to see everyone's reaction, especially Hannelore's. That "squee" will kill someone this time.


Should've come out of lurking earlier though, seems like the forums will be somewhat chaotic for some time.


Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 08 Oct 2014, 14:30
Question: Marten was drunk before and the feelings boiled up during this. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2801) I have to question whether or not he is acting out of his own sober self, or from the alcohol-induced act. He says the night before was "natural" but still, he was technically inebriated. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Finwolven on 08 Oct 2014, 14:35
Being slightly inebriated does not make you somehow not-be you. And thinking about things does not have to take a century's worth of angst and indecision.

Why is there such a great amount of people going 'no way could Marten actually have feelings for Claire!'?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 14:37
I definitely wondered about that when he was drunkenly snuggling Claire.  But now he's thought it all over while sober, and kissed Claire while sober, and his conclusion is that he likes her and feels natural being with her. 

Can't wait to see everyone's reaction, especially Hannelore's. That "squee" will kill someone this time.
Oh man, I never thought of that!  *gets out the earplugs*

Welcome, Jhago!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 08 Oct 2014, 14:39
Very true.  I listen to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NjssV8UuVA) when I need to get psyched.

that's funny, because every time I think of that song, I think of this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgpnlLz7WR0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgpnlLz7WR0) Which is still older than me by a handful of years.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 14:39

I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
Yes, I suspect it's one of those awesome vintage stores with the great big rack of evening wear and prom dresses dating from the '50's through the '80's.  She probably got the pink dress in 2791 there (it could be an '80's prom dress), and the Smiths shirt.

I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them.  But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.

For whatever reason I always thought it was Kaylee's dress from Firefly: (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/08/ed4f477d84987cd11d8113566d42dc2d.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 14:42
I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them.  But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.
Unless she's going to a Firefly convention. (Ninja'd- iandanger, that's because it is)

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!
I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 14:44
sheet cake made of victory and talking owls [line stolen... I'm not that witty]

Please tell me what this is from?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 08 Oct 2014, 14:48
Jesus H Tapdacing Christ, 20 pages by Wednesday. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 08 Oct 2014, 14:52
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

Exactly! I'm 28 and I listen to Paul Simon (his old, good stuff like There Goes Rhymin' Simon and Graceland), ELO, Supertramp, and Scott Joplin. I'm convinced my love of ragtime was instilled by a childhood spent with Super Mario Bros.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 14:52
Quote
Jesus H Tapdacing Christ, 20 pages by Wednesday

Hrm; the wine's affecting me early - I thought this was an answer to FunkyTuba's question, and I was like "I've never heard of that book, but I bet it's by Terry Pratchett."

Edit:  Left a 't' off of 'Pratchett'
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 08 Oct 2014, 14:54
I would read the hell out of that book. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Oct 2014, 14:54
Quote
So, what for Thursday/Friday?

There might be one more Claire & Marten strip, but it seems a pretty good time to cut off, although I wouldn't mind a cute mother/daughter strip. First dates and angry brothers can come later.

So, probably a one shot gag comic then another story. I'd kind of like to go to Angus and Faye. I'm kind of neutral on Angus(Hasn't shown a lot of personality for quite some time), but this story has been hovering too long and now that Marten's spoken for it's safe to put Angus on the bus.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 14:57
Things have been so sweet and fluffy for a while, I could see throwing in an angry-brother or nosy-mom moment for some comic relief before this scene closes. 
For whatever reason I always thought it was Kaylee's dress from Firefly: [jpg]
That is an alarming amount of ruffle.

And yes, it does look as if Claire's dress could be modelled on that.

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!
I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.
Yeah, nobody's objected to the newbies who came to squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Oct 2014, 15:02
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh

Wow. I never got this reference. I always took it as an onomatopoeia of the sound someone would make to dismiss something as irrelevant or inconsequential. Example would be "Teh, whatever."

Add in that it can be read as "tee-shirt", and the multi-meaning roundabout is complete.  Sadly, though, no one has ever asked me for an explanation!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AJ_ on 08 Oct 2014, 15:03
Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!
I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.
Yeah, nobody's objected to the newbies who came to squee.
I subscribe to the "if you don't know what your talking about keep your mouth shut" philosophy
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Oct 2014, 15:05
Global Moderator Comment New people are good for the forum! They keep it alive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 15:06
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think.  Any others?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Oct 2014, 15:07
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 15:12
Was the living proof at your finger tips?

No, but she kissed me pretty cruelly, if I remember correctly.

More wine?  Mmmmmmb'okay.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Finwolven on 08 Oct 2014, 15:13
I accidentally the forums, been lurking for a few days but made an account today to read the login-required bits.

Actually I just now found the forums link on the QC website, because it's tiny! I found the forum via accidental googling.

Oh, and I listen to many things older or as old as I am...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cypher on 08 Oct 2014, 15:13
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

A friend of mine always used to go on about the Beatles while we were at school but I wasn't altogether convinced... a year or so ago I bought a compilation CD of their hits, and, you know, I really can see what he was talking about (although the compilation left out Strawberry Fields, which was a pity Ž_Ž)!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 08 Oct 2014, 15:13
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think.  Any others?

I think I'd be crying too much to post. That's just so cruel. There's a lump in my throat just thinking about it. Someone in Marten's circle of friends having an issue with his new relationship would be an interesting dynamic, especially if it's someone we haven't seen in a while. (I'm looking at you, Third intern we haven't seen in forever and who's name I've forgotten.) Or even the relationship bringing up some of Dora's past insecurities.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tragic_pizza on 08 Oct 2014, 15:14
So, waiting for 2809.  Not with quite the same levels of hope and anxiety of the last few weeks, but won't be surprised to be totally surprised, again ;-)

First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......
And thus Sig gives voice to my hidden terror...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Oct 2014, 15:24
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think.  Any others?

At this point, I don't buy it all being a dream. That's pretty contrived, so I don't see Jeph going that direction.

So what's left? Dora and Tai are fine, as are Dale and Marigold (barring some unforeseen circumstance, but with absolutely no lead-in, that'd be a huge stretch). That means two storylines are still left hanging: Faye and Angus, and Dora and Sven. The other shoe has to drop sooner or later on both of those, and depending on when/how it does, there's bound to be some discussion there. For that matter, shifting Marten and Claire to the library is also going to lead to discussion and speculation as to people's thoughts, motives, etc.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 15:26
Natural rights were a rhetorical tool that built on ideas in the manga carta to justify ideas that vested power in the hands of the individual, because the natural right philosophers realized that the existing system was inefficient and harmful.

For copies of the Manga Carta, see Marigold. It's under her stack of "Magical Love Gentleman" issues.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 15:27
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?
Emily admitting feelings for Marten would do it.

Oh geez, just imagine Marten: he worked out his perfectly scripted reply, decided he had the situation under control, and then the whole Claire thing happened and he forgot all about the possible Emily situation.  Then Emily pops up and asks him on a date, and he discovers that his script is now useless.

Emily: Would you like to go to the new burger place after work?  Like... just you and me?
Marten: Thanks, but I can't, it would be unethical to--er, uh, um, I mean.....
Emily: Oh, are you vegetarian?  That's okay, they have veggie burgers!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 08 Oct 2014, 15:32
Yeah.  I get the idea that Marten has been attracted to Claire, and likes her as a friend, but he's not really swooning over her.  He's more thinking "Well, I'll give this a shot, why not?"

Ignoring the rest of your post and the discussion of Marten/Claire as a pairing, I just have to comment on this. I hatehatehate the idea that someone has to be swooning over someone to be genuinely, non-passively, interested. If Marten had been completely visible about his interest in her (he had shown some inconclusive hints), I'd probably think it was creepy if anything. People can keep their feelings to themselves, and people can have strong feelings without being overwhelmed by them.

Nothing about that is said in the comic, and it's unlikely that jeph intends to address this.

Also, I'd say this has been addressed in comic (probably won't ever be word of god). Whether or not it was about her genitalia, there is a reason Claire said 'And you're okay with the fact that I'm trans?' and that Marten reassured her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 15:36
Yeah.... Considering that they haven't even had their first date yet, "I like you" is a perfectly good starting point; it doesn't have to be "ohmigod I'm crazy about you."

I don't think Marten is madly deliriously crazy about Claire; I think he likes her and has just recently discovered some romantic/physical chemistry with her, and he wants to see where that leads. 'Cause, hey, who wouldn't want to see where that leads?  It can lead to amazing places.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 08 Oct 2014, 15:40
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?
The easiest way to get the readers to talk is to get them emotionally invested. And the easiest way to do that is straight up trolling. Catastrophic event out of nowhere. Angus gets the call, but right as he picks up the scene switches to May taking a shower. With Steve. Who's eating cereal. In Momo's shower.

Sure, those 20 pages would be filled with nothing but misdirected rage, but you just wanted them to be filled. :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 15:42
It'd be even more discussion if he were eating pancakes.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 08 Oct 2014, 15:45
It'd be even more discussion if he were eating pancakes.

True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Oct 2014, 15:47
First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......

Nono. Marten wakes up, goes into the living room "I just had a dream I confessed my feelings to Claire"

Faye: "Who's Claire?"

Dun dun dun!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 15:48
True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.
Pancake-flavored cereal?  Pancakes with cereal as an ingredient?  Cereal that's been run over by a steamroller?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 08 Oct 2014, 15:52
Nono. Marten wakes up, goes into the living room "I just had a dream I confessed my feelings to Claire"

Faye: "Who's Claire?"

Dun dun dun!

No, it goes like this:
Marten: "Faye, I had this weird dream where I confessed my feelings to Claire."
Emily: "Who's Claire? And who's Faye?"

 :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 15:55
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 16:03


Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.

Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.

I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.

I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.

Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.

Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?

And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women.  Do you want to claim that's the case?

Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior
It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.

Gender differences in behavior is a common occurence in many animals, not just humans. Female lab rats exposed to masculine hormones during certain stages of intrauterine development demonstrated more masculine beheavior patterns during adulthood including the way they respond to stress. Humans are not special beings unaffected by nature's laws.

You clearly demonstrate a lack of scientific education. Nothing wrong with that. People outside the scientific field are not obligued to. But it would be nice if people learned the basics before they accept anything they read on the internet.

I defend that the same way that there are different hair colors and shapes there are people with different affinities and tastes and variety makes the world beautiful. Each person is unique from before birth and not a simple white canvas waiting to be painting by nurturing

Hormones in rats have what to do with the behavior of pre-pubescent children? In one breath you claim behavior is innate and in the next that its hormonal and I'm the one who doesn't know science? Is that because I have girl brain or because estrogen induced a love of strawberry shortcake dolls kept me away from the science books with all those big words?

Hormone exposure during brain formation inside the uterus affects the behavior of the adult both for rats and for humans.

I'm not saying anything about being or not fit for science. You lack in formal education. This is not something innate to the brain.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 16:04

New people are good for the forum! They keep it alive.


This may be my fault due to the 'newbies don't get it' comment. I withdrew that comment anyway but it referred only to the trans issues. I am loving all the new joinees rolling in.

Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

How many people younger than you do you hang out with Hodgy? Most people I know listen to older music. The few I know that don't occasionally listen to The Beatles have listened to them before and dislike the music - it isn't because it's 50 year old music.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: wiserd on 08 Oct 2014, 16:05
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women. Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.' He doesn't seem to have made any striking life changes. He didn't seem to have any particular connection with Claire, aside from it "feeling natural."

The only thing I can think of is that Martin likes to take care of people, and sees that opportunity in Claire, especially as he's her boss, but that's a long shot with little material support in the comic. Faye had issues with her dad's suicide. Dora had issues with past abusive boyfriends (and who knows what precipitated that.) So possibly Claire connects with that pattern somehow.

... still, it seems pretty out-of-the blue.

Quote
Warning - while you were typing 36 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Wow
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Oct 2014, 16:07
I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: T on 08 Oct 2014, 16:09
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.

There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.

There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf

Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.

Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology.  What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years.

I think as a reference you should use Cordelia Fine's excellent sceptical work on the subject. It shows just how much observer bias has historically existed regarding the sexual dimorphism of the brain, and the consequences therefrom.

The two extreme positions are:

* The Biologically Deterministic one. This observes (and historically manufactures from very little evidence) that the brain is sexually dimorphic, and then uses that to argue that females are inferior because biology, that all gendered behaviour is hard-wired, and in general a whole load of other paternalistic arrogant misogynist and nauseating pseudo-scientific drivel.

*The Social Constructionist one. This observes the awful, oppressive effects of the first, then reasons that the brain cannot be sexually dimorphic because that supports gender fascism and the dehumanisation of women, so ignores any evidence for it no matter how sound, and attacks anyone observing it, deeming them to be cruel oppressors trying to fool the public into going along with their nauseating and male chauvinist policies.

Of the two, the Social Constructionist one, despite its PoMo anti-scientific basis, is actually closer to reality than the first. 80% right. The second is 20% right. Both are significantly wrong, distorting any truth so it becomes useless.

Examples:

    Boys and girls behave in different ways and one of the stereotypical behavioral differences between them, that has often been said to be forced upon them by upbringing and social environment, is their behavior in play. Boys prefer to play with cars and balls, whereas girls prefer dolls. This sex difference in toy preference is present very early in life (3–8 months of age) [1]. The idea that it is not society that forces these choices upon children but a sex difference in the early development of their brains and behavior is also supported by monkey behavioral studies. Alexander and Hines [2], who offered dolls, toy cars and balls to green Vervet monkeys found the female monkeys consistently chose the dolls and examined these ano-genitally, whereas the male monkeys were more interested in playing with the toy cars and with the ball....


“Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia”
Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005
    Data show that increased male-typical toy play by girls with CAH cannot be explained by parental encouragement of male-typical toy play. Although parents encourage sex-appropriate behavior, their encouragement appears to be insufficient to override the interest of girls with CAH in cross-sexed toys.

I don't know about you, but the phrase "sex-appropriate behavior" sets my teeth on edge. It reminds me of the days when I was a child, when girls were supposed to be secretaries, not secretaries of state, beauticians not bankers, and all the rest of that infuriating Patriarchal BS.

However.... biology plays a role. Instincts exist.

If I can quote myself: http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-many-sexes.html

Let's start with the idea that there are male and female brains. They differ anatomically, and these differences correspond to different stereotyped behaviours, regardless of upbringing. This is most obvious in girls who have CAH, masculinised brains, and a male preference in play patterns, even though they have a normal female upbringing.

Now that we've established that idea, that it's objectively observable.. we have to tear it down. It's just the first step in Wittgenstein's ladder.

The brain is a complex structure, not a simple one. Any particular individual can have a more masculine anatomy in one area, a more feminine anatomy in others. The sexually dimorphic features have considerable overlap. Within any one area, few are unambiguously male or unambiguously female. The difference is statistical. Moreover, in the higher brain, hormonal balance plays a role in changing the brain's physical anatomy. Treat a male with female hormones, some of his brain structures will feminise. The brain is plastic in many areas, experiences and social environment causes physical changes, and much of what we call "gendered behaviour" is as the result of arbitrary socially constructed factors.

OK, understood that? Now discard it, it's the second step on the ladder.

The brain is not homogenous; different parts have different effects, and while some parts are plastic, others are not. While much "gendered behaviour" is a social construct, some is not, and is remarkably resistant to change. This is most obvious in Transsexual people, whose neuro-anatomy is female in some areas, male in others, and corresponds to neither in yet others. When the Lymbic nucleus is feminised, typically feminine emotional patterns are found, and these lead to a feminine gender identity. When the Superior Parietal Lobule (SPL) is feminised as well - as it often is - the "body map" is for female primary and secondary sex characteristics - breasts, vagina etc - and any mismatch with reality causes immense distress.

This also explains such observed phenomena as "phantom limb syndrome", and the widely variable emotional response to hysterectomy or mastectomy. Also too the variable response to any natural masculinisation of a female-at-birth body due to 5ARD or 17BHSD syndromes, which can cause a superficial "natural sex change".

What this means is that a binary model of sex and gender is merely a rough approximation. A better one is a trinary one, with male, female, and bigendered (approximately 1/3 in each category). But that still doesn't capture the multi-variance and fuzziness of the situation adequately. A small percentage won't fit either model, or indeed, any such gross over-simplification.

References (to substantiate my assertions):

Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. - Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia” Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005

Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure by Pol et al, Europ Jnl Endocrinology, Vol 155, suppl_1, S107-S114 2006

Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: “How Does One Know if One is Male or Female?” M.Diamond Sex Roles (2006) 55:589–600

Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. Cohen-Kettenis PT. Arch Sex Behav. 2005 Aug;34(4):399-410.

Thank you, You did a better job at being understandable.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr_Rose on 08 Oct 2014, 16:09
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.
Sounds like you got a succubus infestation there boss. Right nasty one too. No worries though, we'll soon get that sorted. Just so happens we got a fresh batch of succu-bane in last week too, so I won't have to mess around with the dosages either. Now, will that be cash or souls?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 16:12

On the subject, do we have a canon age for Marten? My head-canon has always been something about this:
  • Dora is the oldest regular - No older than early 30s; probably 29-31;
  • Marten, Faye, Angus & Hannelore - 25-29 range;
  • Everyone else is in roughly the Augustus kids' age range - 21 at the youngest to 25 at the oldest;
  • Sam holds the record at the moment as the youngest biological character at 13;
  • We know that Jim, Veronica and Henry are all in their mid-50s (Veronica being explicity stated to be 56, IIRC).

Possibly answered already, and not quite canon, and 3 years old but Jeph has spoken on this in the past:

From Jeph's Tumblr 3 years ago (http://jephjacques.com/post/11019116861/qa-dump-07):
Quote
How old are all the characters?

Hanners and Marigold are only 21 or 22, Marten and Faye and the bulk of the cast are 24-25, Dora’s 26, Sven’s 27, etc etc etc I have a million characters

Claire and Marten are just about the same age.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Oct 2014, 16:13
How many people younger than you do you hang out with Hodgy?

Everyone at work, and as my wife is nearly ten years younger than me, most of my family friends.  Only some of the choir I sing in, though!  But "I believe there are a few..." was just a bit of my typical deadpan understatement, of course.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aliensporebomb on 08 Oct 2014, 16:17
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm not quite as negative as you three but I do believe this is not a long term permanent type relationship.  But then again I've been wrong before. 

It's hard to put my finger on it but....  In some ways Claire is like a supporting character in a long running sitcom that suddenly becomes a main character for some reason.  Perhaps she'll grow on me. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: wiserd on 08 Oct 2014, 16:22
I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

Is Claire just another 'girl in his vicinity?' Or can someone explain the substance of Martin's attraction? He doesn't seem the type of guy to pick up girls on the street or have brief relationships, which suggests substance is likely important to him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: LazarMarkovic on 08 Oct 2014, 16:32
Must admit I don't give a good goddamn about the semantics, I am normally one jaded SOB but comic 8707 had me whooping round the room like a crazy man. Who cares about the whys and wherefores lets just bask in the squee and enjoy whats looks to be a new and awesome relationship in the comic.  :-D

N/B As long as Claire isn't a Manchester City fan- Hate city fans with a passion
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 16:33
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.

I've been having that kind of dream from an early age (youngest I can remember would've been 9 or 10).  I'm at work, so I have to take short cuts (ie. wikipedia), but you might find this interesting:

"The anima and animus, in Carl Jung's school of analytical psychology, are the two primary anthropomorphic archetypes of the unconscious mind, as opposed to both the theriomorphic and inferior-function of the shadow archetypes, as well as the abstract symbol sets that formulate the archetype of the Self. The anima and animus are described by Jung as elements of his theory of the collective unconscious, a domain of the unconscious that transcends the personal psyche. In the unconscious of the male, this archetype finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

The anima and animus can be identified as the totality of the unconscious feminine psychological qualities that a male possesses or the masculine ones possessed by the female, respectively. It is an archetype of the collective unconscious and not an aggregate of father or mother, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or teachers, though these aspects of the personal unconscious can influence the person for good or ill.

Because a man's sensitivity must often be repressed, the anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It is said to manifest itself by appearing in dreams. It also influences a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them and vice versa for females and the animus. Jung said that "the encounter with the shadow is the 'apprentice-piece' in the individual's development...that with the anima is the 'masterpiece'".[1] Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability."


Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 16:41
[...] does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
I count three, maybe four--Faye, Dora, Padma, maaaaaybe Lt. Potter (but she may have just been the first random attractive lady he met when he was trying to forget Padma rather than someone he would ever have been seriously into).  I take this as a positive change, though.

It can be good for someone who keeps having failed relationships with the same type to break the pattern instead of repeating the same cycle for the rest of their life.  Marten has expressed unhappiness with his own passivity, and relationships with dominant women only encourage him to be more passive.  With Claire, he'll be an equal in the relationship, and he may be drawn to that (as well as obviously liking how he feels when he touches her).  Yay for trying something new when the old wasn't working.

I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

Is Claire just another 'girl in his vicinity?' Or can someone explain the substance of Martin's attraction? He doesn't seem the type of guy to pick up girls on the street or have brief relationships, which suggests substance is likely important to him.
I think Faye and Dora were more than just "hot girls" to Marten; otherwise he woudn't have such meaningful friendships with them now that there's no prospect of bangin'.

And yes, substance is definitely important to him (witness his unhappiness with his random one-night stand).  I don't know that anyone but Marten himself could explain which characteristics of Claire's make him like her, but he's had lots of opportunity to get to know her as a person.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 16:41
Thanks - that was interesting reading.  Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 08 Oct 2014, 16:44
Loving your feminine aspects is a lot better than stomping on them like some fellas do.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DocMob on 08 Oct 2014, 16:46
Finally registered in order to weigh in on Marten's feelings for Claire, and how they manifested themselves. I don't see any of this as sudden - rather, I think he's been falling for the longest time. I think a significant - telling - moment came at http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432, when his reaction to her running from the room was questions; the right questions. "Are you okay? Do you need help? Is there anything I can do?" All about Claire, and finding out how she feels. And while he boiled his long declaration down to a few words, about how he felt, and hoped she felt, I think the (abbreviated) long version was something along the lines of (after talking with Claire and Tai): "I realize I don't know what I want out of my job (it's not my dream job), but I do know what I want in my life: you." :claireface: From experience, I can say, that happens.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 08 Oct 2014, 16:47
I had pancakes for lunch today at the local diner and it's all this thread's fault.

Doc makes a point I've been meaning to make for me as well. This isn't sudden. This has been building since Claire's intro.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 16:56
Thanks - that was interesting reading.  Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.

For a long time, I've felt that everyone we fall in love with, and who falls in love with us, provides a kind of mirror for aspects of ourselves we may not be aware of/are avoiding/are absolutely bloody terrified of.  That probably sounds horribly self-centred, but i don't mean it in that way - rather, I see the love relationship as a key arena for personal evolution for both parties.

And yes, loving our feminine and masculine aspect(s) is profoundly better than trampling all over them in projected form (ie. the people we project our own shadow selves onto).  Lol, not a Jungian, but I do enjoy playing with his ideas...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 17:10
Thursday: Stereal. Friday: Marten chokes on hair (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2435). Monday we find out if he lives or not.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Oct 2014, 17:12
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.

I'm glad I'm not the only person this has happened to. I had a couple of dreams like that, both with the same person -- who, I should mention, was someone I'd never seen or met in my waking hours. They were incredibly vivid, to a point that both times I spent days afterward wondering if this was something that had happened that I'd somehow forgotten or something. It was a really disturbing experience.

By way of a postscript, I read Tom's post on the Jungian aspect of the whole thing, and while it's interesting, it doesn't entirely ring true to me; I've never feared, much less tried to repress, my feminine side, so I don't think it's that. Having said that, I'm aware that I could be misinterpreting something in there, at least as far as the dream goes. I do think -- between experience and anecdotal evidence -- that there's something to the latter post, and that it goes some way toward explaining why "opposites attract." It's beyond cliche to say that two people complete each other (besides the fact that not everyone needs to be completed); however, I think that we're drawn toward people from whom we can learn.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 17:33
I'm glad I'm not the only person this has happened to. I had a couple of dreams like that, both with the same person -- who, I should mention, was someone I'd never seen or met in my waking hours. They were incredibly vivid, to a point that both times I spent days afterward wondering if this was something that had happened that I'd somehow forgotten or something. It was a really disturbing experience.

By way of a postscript, I read Tom's post on the Jungian aspect of the whole thing, and while it's interesting, it doesn't entirely ring true to me; I've never feared, much less tried to repress, my feminine side, so I don't think it's that...

I've had the reverse happen - memories of things that I am convinced happened or places I have been to - only to discover that these were events and places that I dreamed of.  I've carried around apparent memories of several houses that I was sure I had actually visited, only to have the realisation that no, I dreamed that.  It is always extremely unsettling.

The vividness of the dream lover is well attested, I think.  My own experience of these kinds of dreams has often been harrowing - I usually wake up feeling desperately sad.

I have a lot of respect for Jung, but I see his theoroies - all theories really - as maps of the territory, not the territory itself.  Partial explanations at best :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 08 Oct 2014, 17:37
Ignoring the rest of your post and the discussion of Marten/Claire as a pairing, I just have to comment on this. I hatehatehate the idea that someone has to be swooning over someone to be genuinely, non-passively, interested. If Marten had been completely visible about his interest in her (he had shown some inconclusive hints), I'd probably think it was creepy if anything. People can keep their feelings to themselves, and people can have strong feelings without being overwhelmed by them.

My point wasn't that it wasn't a valid reason to try things out, only that Claire actually seems like she has stronger feelings here than Marten. 

That said, while in general I agree that attraction+friendship can be an okay base to start a relationship, once someone is part of your circle of friends, it gets a lot more complicated.  Around ten years ago I had had like a girl I was besties with.  I was attracted to (at different times) two of her friends.  But I saw them all the time socially speaking, and I just thought it would be too awkward to make a move because of how I'd have to see them all the time if it didn't work out.  Higher thresholds seem prudent, is all I'm saying. 

I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

I think they're very different from just being hot girls.  He and Faye obviously had natural chemistry with one another.  They might not have made a good couple if they were actually dating, but if Faye didn't have her trust issues at the start of the comic, they would have fallen into a pretty cliched love affair pretty shortly thereafter.  In contrast, Dora is a pretty good case for Martin rationalizing himself into a relationship.  I mean, I think he clearly ended up loving her, even if he never officially fell in love with her. 

Possibly answered already, and not quite canon, and 3 years old but Jeph has spoken on this in the past:

From Jeph's Tumblr 3 years ago (http://jephjacques.com/post/11019116861/qa-dump-07):
Quote
How old are all the characters?

Hanners and Marigold are only 21 or 22, Marten and Faye and the bulk of the cast are 24-25, Dora’s 26, Sven’s 27, etc etc etc I have a million characters

Claire and Marten are just about the same age.

Wow.  Those were the ages of the characters at the beginning of the comic too, IIRC.  This means only a year has passed since the start of the comic in QC time.  Unless years were skipped more recently, or QC is like the Simpsons, and no one ever ages. 

Finally registered in order to weigh in on Marten's feelings for Claire, and how they manifested themselves. I don't see any of this as sudden - rather, I think he's been falling for the longest time. I think a significant - telling - moment came at http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432, when his reaction to her running from the room was questions; the right questions. "Are you okay? Do you need help? Is there anything I can do?" All about Claire, and finding out how she feels. And while he boiled his long declaration down to a few words, about how he felt, and hoped she felt, I think the (abbreviated) long version was something along the lines of (after talking with Claire and Tai): "I realize I don't know what I want out of my job (it's not my dream job), but I do know what I want in my life: you." :claireface: From experience, I can say, that happens.

And that's exactly the sort of comic I look at and see no romantic context to whatsoever.  Just friendly concern.

Look, it's long since over, but I had plenty of female friends back in the day I would have very intense emotional relationships with.  I would stay up staring at the stars talking to them.  One I drove to an abortion because no one else was available.  Another had no compunction about getting naked in front of me.  Another liked to hold my hand and snuggle.  Another slept in bed with me.  I might have felt romantic tension with them, but it was eventually made painfully clear that they didn't feel the same way.  They felt a lot of trust and intimacy towards me, but that didn't equate to wanting to bone. 

Emotional intimacy does not equal physical intimacy, full stop.  A man and a woman becoming besties does not mean they'e going to screw eventually.  I guess it could happen, but in my experience, this is much rarer than just dating strangers until you meet one that works. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Oct 2014, 17:37
Early update; Clairemom likes Marten okay.  :)
Title: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 17:38
I suppose we got our cereal comic (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/08/236cd1c1847adbb2ecd8c938fb10196f.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 17:38
2809 - a very cute pause in the action :-)  Mrs Augustus clearly is a schemer...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElsaStegosaurus on 08 Oct 2014, 17:46
Cereal AND pancakes?  MADNESS.

I'll admit, I both chuckled and groaned.  Kinda expected a break and scene change after yesterday.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 08 Oct 2014, 17:49
True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.
Pancake-flavored cereal?  Pancakes with cereal as an ingredient?  Cereal that's been run over by a steamroller?

Pancake (and maple) flavoured.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 17:49
Heh... it occurs to me that this is a first for ClaireMom too.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 17:50
Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.

And as a counterpoint, as through force of circumstances I had to pretend to be male for a long time, it's obvious in hindsight that I tried to be the kind of man I should have married.

The interesting thing is that I still try to retain those virtues, even though they're traditionally supposed to be masculine, and I have every excuse for recoiling from anything remotely male due to insecurity about my own femininity. I'm Intersex after all, and I've observed that most women, cis or trans, feel they have to work hard to conform to societal expectations of femininity. In theory, I should too, more than most. I just feel that Life's too short, I have more important things to do. I don't buy into a lot of it anyway.

While the "masculine virtues" may statistically and traditionally be called "masculine" - they're feminine too. Just as the traditionally "feminine virtues" are masculine, even if more commonly found in women than men.

You want courage? Try giving birth. You put your life on the line for your baby. Every mother has done the equivalent of charging a machine-gun nest. Every man who volunteers to protect his country does just the same as a mother cat protecting her kittens. The military, when it doesn't become pathological, is a very maternal thing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 17:51
Heh... it occurs to me that this is a first for ClaireMom too.

Oh well spotted! That hadn't occurred to me, and should have done. (applause)
She's handling it rather well, I think.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 17:53
Seems so... she has to have had her own journey complete with doubts, recriminations, joy etc along the way.

Showing us this is just the kind of touch that Jeph has that keeps me coming back. [/gush]
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 17:54
It had to be cereal... but Jeph still manages to surprise.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 18:00
As for matters pancakey - by pure coincidence (we'd arranged it weeks earlier) we sojourned to the Pancake Parlour last night. They run a sampler night every wednesday. Pricey (even at half price) but nicey.

Small bowl of Salad and buttered potatos
Crepe Tabriz - spicy lamb mince wrapped in a crepe
Pancake Parmigiana - buckwheat pancake, thick chicken breast, ham, cheese, then tomato puree
Traditional Apple pancake with vanilla custard
Russian blintz with ice cream

$27 the lot.

That was 18 hours ago. I'm still in a state of happy pancake-filled repletion, and might start getting an appetite in another 8-10 hours or so.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 08 Oct 2014, 18:01
Mrs. Augustus is so cute. She is obviously the kind of parent that wants her kids to be happy- and if Marten is going to make her daughter happy, then she is happy.

I wrote out the word happy a lot.

Happyhappyhappy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 18:04
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 18:04
As for matters pancakey - by pure coincidence (we'd arranged it weeks earlier) we sojourned to the Pancake Parlour last night. They run a sampler night every wednesday. Pricey (even at half price) but nicey.

...
That was 18 hours ago. I'm still in a state of happy pancake-filled repletion, and might start getting an appetite in another 8-10 hours or so.

My god, haven't been there for years!  Had to stop when my son was diagnosed with coeliac disease.  I remember my daughter being a fan of the short stack smothered in chocolate syrup and hundreds 'n thousands. Happy times :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Durmatagno on 08 Oct 2014, 18:08
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:11
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 18:14
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom.

Plus, that's a squeeface. I know it's a squeeface because I've been seeing one much like it in the mirror after each update this week.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 08 Oct 2014, 18:15
Yup. Clairemom agrees. Now it is time for her and Veronica to get together and start planning the reasonable number of grandkids.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 18:16
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing

Aren't they outside talking and cuddling on the porch?

Somehow doubt that the Mom/Daughter relationship is the kind where Claire would take her boyfriend upstairs while Mom eats cereal.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:17
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing

Aren't they outside talking and cuddling on the porch?

Somehow doubt that the Mom/Daughter relationship is the kind where Claire would take her boyfriend upstairs while Mom eats cereal.

Fair enough looked like they were at the top of a flight of stairs just in front of a hallway
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 08 Oct 2014, 18:24
Cereal - now with added squee.
YES!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 18:26
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 18:30
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 08 Oct 2014, 18:31
<3 <3 <3 All my love for Momma Augustus!

Martéclaire can have what's left over.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:32
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

I just feel if it was a porch it would be pulled back a bit so we could see the walkway or grass or something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:33
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?

If you think that is a big lock then you havent seen a inner city house in chicago
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 18:33

I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?

Well, actually yes all my upstairs doors have deadbolts, but it is odd, we think maybe the house was a very tiny apartment in the past
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 18:34
It must be the porch - the top of the stairs (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2804) looks completely different.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:35
It must be the porch - the top of the stairs (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2804) looks completely different.

Unless it has multiple staircases, but you are probably right I forgot about that one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 08 Oct 2014, 18:36
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 18:39
All posts should be url'd like this. I now have a thoroughly enjoyable tabsplosion...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 18:39
2807 panel 2 shows a diagonal line... looks to me like the kiss happened in the hall on the way to the front door.

2808: whether that's a big or a small deadbolt, it's a deadbolt, and we're in suburb in western MA which implies pretty heavily to me "outside door"

The doorway they're sitting in confuses me a bit but it still could be an enclosed-in wraparound porch off the front of a single family house (http://bostondecksandporches.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/wrap-around-porch.jpg)

ps: thanks AprilArcus for taking the time to archive crawl and find all those references. I'd been wanting to make a similar kind of point but frankly didn't have the time or energy to document it so thoroughly

Edit: found a link to a porch that fits the description
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Oct 2014, 18:43
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

Exactly! I'm 28 and I listen to Paul Simon (his old, good stuff like There Goes Rhymin' Simon and Graceland), ELO, Supertramp, and Scott Joplin. I'm convinced my love of ragtime was instilled by a childhood spent with Super Mario Bros.

Oh God, did you just call Graceland OLD? I remember when it came out!

----
"Says the gentleman whose birth preceded the release of The White Album by a year and a few weeks..."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 08 Oct 2014, 18:44
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Nonsense.  It is a dignified and mature "excellent!" and not at all a "squee."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Oct 2014, 18:46
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

See?

Trivia for Paul: George Harrison was doing final mixing for "Blue Jay Way" on my birthday.


EDIT: Aaaaand I just flipped us to 22 pages.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: nosaJay19 on 08 Oct 2014, 18:48
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

 And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.

Empowered, huh?
I get it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2263)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:48
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

See?

Trivia for Paul: George Harrison was doing final mixing for "Blue Jay Way" on my birthday.


EDIT: Aaaaand I just flipped us to 22 pages.  :psyduck:

Switch the beatles with Zep and same thing for me
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Oct 2014, 18:51
"Says the gentleman whose birth preceded the release of The White Album by a year and a few weeks..."

... which I bought on the day of release.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mustang6172 on 08 Oct 2014, 18:53
Aside from their love of books, in what way are Penelope and Claire similar at all?

Well I've never seen Claire and Pizza Girl at the same place at the same time...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 08 Oct 2014, 18:53
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Oct 2014, 18:59
^--heh... sucks being on the bottom of a new page when you've put that much effort into a post
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 08 Oct 2014, 18:59
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.

Great job man that is a lot of effort
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: digitarii on 08 Oct 2014, 19:02
Ok, I joined the board just to be able to say...

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Thanks, Jeph!

[EDITED : If I offended anybody with what I posted, my apologies. I didn't see it as fetishization as much as acknowledgement of what's going on inside my head. Nevertheless, I did look at it from an outsider's PoV and I can see how it could be construed the way it was. I have read through the rules and will abide by them from now on.]
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 08 Oct 2014, 19:03
For those of you not feeling old because of music yet, I heard Tool on the classic rock station yesterday.  My response was rather undignified, but I did inadvertently teach my older brother how a real maintainer swears.  He was a missile tech, not a real maintainer, cuz he didn't use duct tape or percussion maintenance. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 19:10
I'm trying to find a transwoman to date that isn't a pro.

What does what someone does to earn a living have to do with anything?  I know sex-work is stigmatised, isn't culturally seen as being the same as other kinds of wage-earning, has ridiculous levels of social baggage attached to it - but you know what, people working in the sex industry are still just people, with all the same needs and hopes as anybody else, and just as much to give to the people that they love.

Edited:  Sorry, that was harsh - I was thinking of a good friend of mine who was a sex worker for years, also a fantastic mum and partner and staunch in her love for the people in her life - your reference to 'pro' set me off, which was unfair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 08 Oct 2014, 19:14
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.

Well, dang, son. Than covers way more than I was gonna say. I just wanna add this one in: http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=2482 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=2482)
Note Claire's reaction in panels 2 and 3, almost like she doesn't like Tai's suggestion about Marten being with someone else. I could be reading into bit a bit much (it could just be she's disapproving of casual hook-ups, which was proven with Delilah), but after the past few days, we're all overgeneralize stuff. I just wanted to be included!   :cry:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 08 Oct 2014, 19:21
Cereal voters of the forum rejoice!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 19:36
So. I'm new. I don't really lurk. I just stop in from time to time to satisfy the "OMG!! DIDYOUSEETHAT?!?" reflex.

I finally have something to say.

Let me, further, preface this by explaining that I am a lapsed writer. Despite all the words written about how you are no writer if you aren't writing, I still claim the title. I never stop thinking about how to write, about how elements of story, theme and character come together. And I still write stuff. I just never finish anything. I'm not claiming any authority here. Just explaining that what follows is coming from a place of story analysis. A place that exists only in my head, admittedly.

But enough about me. There's a point!

The reason Marten's behavior seems sudden to some, and inevitable to others is that Jeph is a damn fine storyteller.

There's a certain looseness to the way he crafts this stuff. That's not a surprise. He draws without a buffer. It's also not a criticism. I wish I could craft like he does.

I point that out to note that his method allows him the freedom to change direction if he choses to. So I am not going to make the case that Marten and Claire was part of a deep plan going back to Claire's introduction.

Jeph is the only person (I know of) qualified to speak to that.

Rather, I would point out that everything that has happened is consistent with the outcome. (I just read everything since Claire's first appearance this last weekend.)

There are a lot of moving parts here, so I am not going to make a forensic discussion of my first post. Claire is definitely more into Marten than he is into her. The rapidity with which she trusted him points to that. But that is pretty much how relationships go. It's a nice myth, the idea that people in love are equally into each other, but it is just a myth.

Marten has been fairly self involved of late. On the other hand, he actually seems to have learned something from his post one night stand melt down. Specifically, that his problem wasn't that big a deal. More over, he has been his usual contentious self, especially towards Claire, even during the self involved phase.

Maybe that was foreshadowing. Maybe it was just Marten being Marten. 

Sometimes, in real life, a person will find themselves looking at another person in a new way. Maybe that is what happened to Marten, though I think this is more a case of realizing he.d been looking at Claire in a new way since the wedding.

I think Marten surprised himself, and us. To borrow a phrase from the armchair military strategists, "surprise is what happens when you misinterpret something you've seen all along."

I, personally, choose to think that Jeph planned it that way. As a writer, the one night stand arc looks to me like a classic misdirection. It provides the impression that we are all up in Marten's head and know everything he's concerned with. By outing Claire's crush, through Faye, the emotional focus stays with Claire. It's a great build up and it was executed perfectly. Go Jeph!

We've only been allowed back in Marten's head in flashes, since. That's also effective storytelling. Sometimes the audience only learns whether a character's actions are growth, or more of the same old, after the fact. Getting the audience involved in asking, "what is going on here?" is tricky business.

I could be wrong. It could be that Jeph is about to drop the ball. But I have watched him grow as an artist and writer for years, now. I will take the leap of faith, simply because he's done a good job getting to this point.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 08 Oct 2014, 19:39
It could be oatmeal.

Or yogurt.

Or granola.

Or berries.

Or soup.

Or mac and cheese.

Or pudding.

Or rice.

Or air for all we know.  There's no box.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 19:41
So. I'm new. I don't really lurk. I just stop in from time to time to satisfy the "OMG!! DIDYOUSEETHAT?!?" reflex.

I finally have something to say.

Let me, further, preface this by explaining that I am a lapsed writer. Despite all the words written about how you are no writer if you aren't writing, I still claim the title. I never stop thinking about how to write, about how elements of story, theme and character come together. And I still write stuff. I just never finish anything. I'm not claiming any authority here. Just explaining that what follows is coming from a place of story analysis. A place that exists only in my head, admittedly.



Now that I've been welcomed (by private message but still) I get the chance. Welcome.

Now advice from a stranger. Write. Nanowimo is in a few weeks and that gives you enough time to sketch out an outline and jump in. Plus if you need a Wrimo buddy send me a PM and I'll give you my wrimo username and twitter handle then hound you endlessly till your only defense will be to WRITE.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 08 Oct 2014, 19:46
I'm trying to find a transwoman to date that isn't a pro.
I had to reread that three times before I could believe someone posted it.

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world?
Phew... I haven't fallen into a parallel universe of <rude word>s. I'm not a trans woman, I'm an East Asian woman, but some aspects of fetishisation and objectification are not dissimilar (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MeLoveYouLongTime).

I think 2807 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807) and 2808 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) might be Jeph's most romantic comics yet.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 19:48
Thanks. I might take you up on that. Right now my focus is desperately on paying the bills. Still developing, though. Like I implied, winging it is not one of my skills.

But, you never know. Things might turn 'round before November. If they do, perhaps I'll have developed something I want to write. :)

Edit to add total agreement with AprilArcus's analysis. Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 08 Oct 2014, 20:23
Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.

Literally the only thing Claire is retiring about is sex and romance. Not in a deep, asexual way, but in a shallow way where she reacts instantly and fiercely and then a moment later squelches it and tries to regain her composure. Steve's butt (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2301). Steve's shoulders (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2367). Henry Reed (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2380). Maurice's cologne (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2410). Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2796). Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2800). Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2806).

She's the kind of person who would be impulsively sexual if she felt remotely safe about it. But she feels deeply unsafe expressing arousal or desire because her history and the reality of the world she lives in means that her most innocent actions could be read as deceptive or even predatory. So on eggshells she walks, against her nature.

This is Jeph's storytelling genius - he is talking about deeply personal, deeply political issues entirely through subtext. Everything we need to know to understand who Claire is and why she acts the way she does is there on the page, but he's not going to put it into words that someone else can twist; he's going to show-not-tell us the very painful, complicated stuff going on this person's head and rely on our smarts to reassemble it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Oct 2014, 20:41
Thanks. I might take you up on that. Right now my focus is desperately on paying the bills. Still developing, though. Like I implied, winging it is not one of my skills.

But, you never know. Things might turn 'round before November. If they do, perhaps I'll have developed something I want to write. :)

Edit to add total agreement with AprilArcus's analysis. Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.

Developing is for second drafts. You know you want to be writing buddies with a complete stranger. Do it do it. When you hit 50000 words we shall celebrate by listening to Toto and squeeing over marten and Clare or as most of the chat calls it, Monday.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 20:41
Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.

I was simply noting how easy it is to take one impression and build a theory on it. I, personally, don't see any need for Claire to "fit the pattern" in order to justify Marten's interest.

On the other hand, I agree that the argument that she is not equal to Dora and Faye, in that respect, is meritless.

Edit: I just don't work that way, valkgrrl. I have to understand the interrelated elements before I can do anything. I really do envy those who can just feel their way forward, but I have to know the rules of my universe before I set about breaking them.

It's a weakness.  I pantsed my way through nano twice, and I hate both of those stories.

Edit edit: 50000 words is something I already proved able to do. Next time I want to also manage something that makes sense. Something I will still feel good about when the dust settles. Not perfection, but definitely a sense of coherence.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 20:52
This is Jeph's storytelling genius - he is talking about deeply personal, deeply political issues entirely through subtext. Everything we need to know to understand who Claire is and why she acts the way she does is there on the page, but he's not going to put it into words that someone else can twist; he's going to show-not-tell us the very painful, complicated stuff going on this person's head and rely on our smarts to reassemble it.

Yes, this.  The subtle way that Jeph is telling his story makes QC a compelling read most days, utterly rivetting at the moment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 21:01
Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.

Is careful, patient story-telling that shows rather than tells (thanks AprilArcus) just less common these days?  Jeph doesn't spoon-feed his readers - for a seemingly simple 4 or 5 panel comic, we readers often have to work to undersand the story, and neat summaries and explanations aren't really a feature.  I love this aspect of his craft, and wonder (as I do with many of the authors whose work I admire) how much is innate and unplanned, and how much stems from very careful planning indeed.

Edit: Btw mate, I love your alternate reality QC plot summaries :-)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 08 Oct 2014, 21:04
Random, but this is the first time I've seen "retiring" used as an adjective. That's going into my lexicon
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Oct 2014, 21:10
 I'd never heard it either. I figured it was brits talking english english or something.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 08 Oct 2014, 21:11
I've heard it, and I'm Texan.  Maybe you just need to hang out with smart people more often.   :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 08 Oct 2014, 21:27
That's right, Mrs. A, Marten is a nice boy.

He wouldn't hurt a fly.

With his physique, he couldn't.  :claireface:

(sorry foilks, had to put a squee antidote in here somehow)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ElvisRevenge on 08 Oct 2014, 21:32
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.

I just gotta applaud the effort in this post. Amazing work, and point well made.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackbird on 08 Oct 2014, 21:35
Hi, yet another Newbie here.  I mostly started reading this thread because I knew that there would be discussion about Martenclaire and I knew that would be amusing, but 22 pages and a few hours later, I feel inclined to weigh in with a few observations:

1. Clairemom and Veronica, BFFs... OMG YES! I hadn't considered this until I started reading this thread and now I want to see it more than anything.

2. Somebody mentioned several pages ago that Claire was being drawn more and more appealing.  I noticed that too, but I thought it was subtext, possibly due to my own headcanon.  You see, I've always thought Jeph's evolving art style was supposed to mirror the evolution of how Marten sees the world.  Hanners was more attractive when she first appeared, but as Marten quickly saw her as less of a possible romantic partner and more of a friend/surrogate sister/crazy girl that he wouldn't touch ever, she became more plain/haggard-looking.  In the same light, Claire becoming more traditionally attractive as the art evolved I saw as a symbol of Marten's growing attraction to her.  (Also, for those who want to twist this into a blunting of her status as a trans person to make Joe Reader more comfortable, I don't buy it.  Her most masculine features (the angular jawline, the large hands, and the slight adam's apple) are all still there.  It was less gender-oriented features that got reduced.)

I really hope that didn't cross the "do not talk about" line.  If it did, I apologize. 

3. I also believe they're on the porch.  All of the interior walls we've seen have been various shades of blue that coordinate well together. Having a hallway that shade of green really doesn't fit with the rest of the house unless it's the outside.

4. Sqqqqquuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (sorry, had to)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 21:41
Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.

Is careful, patient story-telling that shows rather than tells (thanks AprilArcus) just less common these days?
(Snip)

I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.

The specific wording of my comment is based on the original wording of April's post, which stated that the only thing Claire was retiring about was sex, and that she had good reason for that. (I assume that the reason referred to is being trans. But I put no words in anyone's mouth.)

My reply was simply stating that I don't think it important that she has good reason or not. From a view of characterization, Claire's reasons need only be consistent. From the view of Claire as a real person, her reasons need only be reasons that do no harm. Beyond that, Claire should not have to justify who she is.

Others should accept her or walk away.

Interestingly, to the extent that we know Claire, she doesn't seem to feel any particular pressure to justify herself.  From a meta standpoint, I think that serves just the purpose of subtle crafting.

Perhaps, being cis, I have this wrong. It seems to me that the most important thing about being trans is that, like cis people, trans people are people first.  The most important thing about Claire, as a character, is that she is Claire.

If the aspect of Claire we saw most was whatever issues being trans caused her, that would, I think, overwhelm the story that Jeph is telling. Of course, only Jeph knows exactly what that story is, but it seems to me that it's a story about people. Perhaps I read too much into it. Still, it seems to me that any and all socio-political messages derive from the fact that the story (at least this aspect of it) is about Claire (who happens to be trans) and not about a trans person (who happens to be Claire).

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 21:49
I've heard it, and I'm Texan.  Maybe you just need to hang out with smart people more often.   :wink:

That's just the way I talk. I might say "not exactly certain" instead of "uncertain" but for the most part, what you read is what you would hear.

I'm also from Texas, for certain values of "from." "Shy and retiring," has been a life long phrase for me. I probably read it in book.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 21:52
I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.

...

Ah yes, I used the wrong quote, and I can see why my comments didn't make any sense with respect to your thoughts about retiring and aggression.  Sorry about that, I wasn't being critical of you and AprilArcus - if indeed that is how you read my comments. 

I probably shouldn't be doing this at work ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 21:57
I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.

...

Ah yes, I used the wrong quote, and I can see why my comments didn't make any sense with respect to your thoughts about retiring and aggression.  Sorry about that, I wasn't being critical of you and AprilArcus - if indeed that is how you read my comments. 

I probably shouldn't be doing this at work ;-)

Not at all upset. My default assumption is that something I said was unclear.

Until I'm sure that isn't the case, I keep calm and try to provide more details.

I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

Edit: unrelated to the above, and in response to the suggestion that Claire is getting cuter....

The way Jeph draws everyone has changed since Claire's introduction. I doubt that is related to anything other than the fact that Jeph hasn't stopped teaching himself how to draw.

That's probably been said before, but I saw it as an opportunity to gush over how much I enjoy watching the artistic experiments.

Also, Claire's always been drawn adorable. I'll wait until we see Clinton again before I seriously entertain the idea that she is getting more (more what? I don't know). 

(They obviously look alike. I forgot they aren't twins. But Claire looks like a girl and Clinton looks like a boy. To me. I always chalked it up to good character design.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 22:08
Not at all upset. My default assumption is that something I said was unclear.

Until I'm sure that isn't the case, I keep calm and try to provide more details.

I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

Yep, my default position is the same - and some days I go out of my way to prove it ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Oct 2014, 22:17
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.
I agree so much with this. It either makes me want to fall back asleep and just embrace unconsciousness rather than dealing with the feeling or I'm left feeling like I've lost a significant part of me for a good chunk of the day.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PDGAreject on 08 Oct 2014, 22:20
What if Claire's mom is eating... Pancake Soup?!?!
It's a thing, and it's pretty good.

http://www.grouprecipes.com/74381/german-pancake-soup-----pfannkuchensuppe.html (http://www.grouprecipes.com/74381/german-pancake-soup-----pfannkuchensuppe.html)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Shjade on 08 Oct 2014, 22:21
I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.

While the rest of your post makes some fair points, this section seems off to me, in that the examples you're providing don't seem to constitute "dominant" behavior. She jokes around, she speaks her mind, she teases her sibling, but she doesn't try to control the situation. She's not throwing her (admittedly rather light, from the look of it) weight around. She's direct, she's open about her thoughts, but I wouldn't call that "dominant" behavior. Maybe you're using the term in a different manner than I'm interpreting it, but I think of Faye or Dora's behavioral patterns as dominating in that they literally dominate people. Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2449) Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>

If anything I'd say she sometimes speaks before considering consequences. She's intelligent and not afraid of sharing her thoughts; that's not the same as taking on a leadership role.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have questioned your dominance. You may wish to cow them into submission.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 22:24
I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

One of the things that is really blowing my mind at the moment - pushed along by the kind of analyses you and AprilArcus and other folk have been providing - is how sophisticated Jeph's storytelling is.  I'm accustomed to this in other forms of literature, but I don't see it in web comics.  That's probably pure snobbery on my part, I know, and I simply haven't read enough to be able to make that kind of judgement. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 08 Oct 2014, 22:30
Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2449) Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>

She doesn't need to be more dominant than Faye to interest Marten; she just needs to be more dominant than Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 08 Oct 2014, 22:36
Eee by goom

Tha' be our Marten alraaght.  :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 22:56
While the rest of your post makes some fair points, this section seems off to me, in that the examples you're providing don't seem to constitute "dominant" behavior. She jokes around, she speaks her mind, she teases her sibling, but she doesn't try to control the situation. She's not throwing her (admittedly rather light, from the look of it) weight around. She's direct, she's open about her thoughts, but I wouldn't call that "dominant" behavior. Maybe you're using the term in a different manner than I'm interpreting it, but I think of Faye or Dora's behavioral patterns as dominating in that they literally dominate people. Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2449) Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>

If anything I'd say she sometimes speaks before considering consequences. She's intelligent and not afraid of sharing her thoughts; that's not the same as taking on a leadership role.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have questioned your dominance. You may wish to cow them into submission.

To be fair, everyone is afraid of Faye. She has the role of the comic's living engine of destruction. The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.
I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

One of the things that is really blowing my mind at the moment - pushed along by the kind of analyses you and AprilArcus and other folk have been providing - is how sophisticated Jeph's storytelling is.  I'm accustomed to this in other forms of literature, but I don't see it in web comics.  That's probably pure snobbery on my part, I know, and I simply haven't read enough to be able to make that kind of judgement. 

Jeph is extremely good at this stuff. Not just crafting, comic timing, but the whole thing. Even the rate at which he delivers new information and his trolling.

Mrs. A having cereal isn't just a good gag, it's the perfect break point and the perfect way to put the "button" on the scene.

Call me a fanboy, if you will. I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the craft to say that Jeph is either a master planner or a talented storyteller. Practice is part of it. Dedication to craft and character... I don't want to make it sound like magic. It's better than that. It's skill.

Ninja skill.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Sig on 08 Oct 2014, 23:01
Way to bring us back down. Mom eating (Cereal maybe?). She made pancakes and eats something in a bowl.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 08 Oct 2014, 23:03
Well, she doesn't want to get infected by the love virus she put in the pancakes, I guess.  :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 23:07
The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.
You sure about that? He's received more than a few dents by her hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 23:11
Call me a fanboy, if you will. I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the craft to say that Jeph is either a master planner or a talented storyteller. Practice is part of it. Dedication to craft and character... I don't want to make it sound like magic. It's better than that. It's skill.

Ninja skill.

Ok, you're a fanboy ;-)  Enthusiasm leading to good critical thinking and writing should always be welcome, though. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Soulsynger on 08 Oct 2014, 23:15
After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 08 Oct 2014, 23:21
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

What's the collective noun for that ?  A storm of shits?  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 08 Oct 2014, 23:22
Ha! A nice variation on the cereal strip! Oddly enough, Mrs A's one line sums up Marten pretty well.

Yeah.... Considering that they haven't even had their first date yet, "I like you" is a perfectly good starting point; it doesn't have to be "ohmigod I'm crazy about you."

I don't think Marten is madly deliriously crazy about Claire; I think he likes her and has just recently discovered some romantic/physical chemistry with her, and he wants to see where that leads. 'Cause, hey, who wouldn't want to see where that leads?  It can lead to amazing places.

In retrospect, I suppose the wedding could be considered their first date. I've got a feeling that they will come to see it that way. That said, I'm looking forward to their first date as a couple; I'm wondering how many third wheels and unexpected irritants Jeph will work in to one evening?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Oct 2014, 23:25
After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Oct 2014, 23:33
The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.
You sure about that? He's received more than a few dents by her hand.

Pintsize is immune to intimidation. Not damage.


Ok, you're a fanboy ;-)  Enthusiasm leading to good critical thinking and writing should always be welcome, though. 
Thanks! I'll try not to put my foot in it.
After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Yes. Yessss!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 08 Oct 2014, 23:36
They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Yes. Yessss!
blushing in little hatssss
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Oct 2014, 23:42
Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.

If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 08 Oct 2014, 23:48
Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
What?!? I haven't started writing yet and I already get a warning?


Anyway, I'm amazed of how much though some people put into their posts here. I can only attribute it to the quality of Jephs writing, because so many of us feels so strongly about his comic. Mostly because we love it, but also because he's a master of setting up things we never thought would happen, like Claire & Marten. He's been giving us near hits for so long (wedding arc, the party just before Claire's reveal)  I thought he was just giving us false leads that would eventually lead to both of them hooking up with others, but I'm very happy to be wrong.

It was a long time since I felt this emotionally invested in a work of fiction, to tell the truth. Maybe one reason is that we only get a little piece at a time, (one strip per day) that events that play out in a few minutes takes a long time to tell because of it. [Funnily enough I started thinking of a quote from Treebeard: "You must understand, young Hobbit, it takes a long time to say anything in Old Entish. And we never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say."]

Finally, congratulations Jeph on creating such a wonderful comic. I'll be waiting eagerly for more.



Oh, and I for got one thing:
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Why am I not surprised  :?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 08 Oct 2014, 23:57
Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.

If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.

I kind of have this theory that Claire's hair is a semi-sentient and separate being to Claire herself. If Marten hadn't spent the previous evening give the hair scritchies, it would have sprung to life and devoured hin during the kiss.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 08 Oct 2014, 23:58
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.

Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 09 Oct 2014, 00:14
thanks AprilArcus for taking the time to archive crawl and find all those references.

Seconded. A well-researched post.

Nearly every one of those links led me to reading several following strips too, and I'd completely forgotten how much of a part Claire has played in the story, and how many hints there were that she liked Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 09 Oct 2014, 00:31
Hi, yet another Newbie here.
[...]
Her most masculine features (the angular jawline, the large hands, and the slight adam's apple) are all still there
[...]
I really hope that didn't cross the "do not talk about" line.  If it did, I apologize. 

Welcome!

I am not a mod, but I think that if it actually appeared/was drawn in the comic then it's probably fair game for discussion as long as you're polite. Posts get problematic when they start speculating about what's underneath the clothes, not the clothes themselves.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 09 Oct 2014, 00:31
Phew! For the first time, I have not read everything in a WCDT. There is just too damn much. I have some suggestions, but I guess this post will quickly drown in the posting hurricane:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 09 Oct 2014, 00:46
Quote
Some posts are just too damn long. They may be interesting, but the length just makes me lose interest.

Strongly disagree. There's some great long posts. If you lose interest, well you lose interest. But I'd hate to see people stop making long well thought out posts because they saw one person complaining.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 01:11
Crack prediction for future:

The last time we saw Emily and Momo seriously interacting, they were discussing robotic religion in comparison with the human views of the same philosophical issues. Combine this with her fascination with Clinton's prosthetic and the fact that she's an IT/AI major... I wonder if Emily might be attracted to AIs and robots on some level. She may even understand them better than she does her own species!

So...

Emily x Momo?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 09 Oct 2014, 01:29
There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 01:39
There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...

Well, I apologise if I've overstepped any boundaries.

The serious part of my post is this: I've just re-read this strip and, apart from the Claire pun sideshow, I found Emily's conversation with Momo fascinating. Am I the only one who noted that cloud-cuckooland Emily has had one of her few on-page serious conversations with Momo and on the subject of AI metaphysics at that? I just wonder if she's one of those technically-oriented people who relates better to machinery than people.

In a world where AIs can look and act almost indistinguishable from humans, that could have some interesting side-effects that Jeph may choose to follow up if he wants to return to Momo's quest to be widely accepted as a real person in a future story arc. May would, of course, be the ideal side-kick in such a story but Emily oddly enough could also - The human who doesn't fit in with her own species.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 09 Oct 2014, 01:39
There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...
Unless it is OTT and clearly a joke, as in one of my previous (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30098.msg1265318.html#msg1265318) posts (although I got reprimanded for that one as well).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: snubnose on 09 Oct 2014, 01:52
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.

Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html
Nah, this is about Doctor Who. Who wants to be attracted to somebody not liking Doctor Who ! Thats totally different than just taste in music.









P.s.: I'm only half joking. :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: NilsO on 09 Oct 2014, 01:57
As far as I know, only Marten (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2323) and Emily (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2571) knows about Claire's trans* status (apart from her family, of course). The rest of the cast just assume she is an ordinary girl. Claire has made claire (pun!) that it is not exactly a secret, but she would prefer it not to become public knowledge.

Emily is not exactly good at keeping secrets (as shown here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2573)). There is a distinct possibility that Emily might "out" Claire to the others (probably by accident, not by malice). This will no doubt hurt Claire if it ever happens.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 02:18
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.

Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html
Nah, this is about Doctor Who. Who wants to be attracted to somebody not liking Doctor Who ! Thats totally different than just taste in music.

Claire definitely doesn't like heavy metal music but, so long as Marten doesn't insist on dragging her to loud concerts, that should be okay. Remember that Claire and Marten share an interest in some obscure local Indy bands; they bonded over one such band during one of their earliest interactions (although Claire was rather defensive as she often was at the time). So it is possible that they share some artistic tastes in music, just not in the sort of music Marten plays.

That said, I can see Claire, as the loyal girlfriend, suffering through Deathmole's first concert, mostly because I can see her being daring and squeezing into a leather waistcoat and trousers (believing that to be the uniform of the day, based on a half-understood off-hand comment from Hannelore). Naturally, she finds herself surrounded by more conventionally-dressed alternative rock fans.

"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"

"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"

"Whoa! Lucky dude!"

Naturally, it will be when she is in that get-up that Clinton catches up with them and accuses Marten of 'corrupting' Claire; she objects, loudly, and one of the hall's bouncers takes this as a license to throw Clinton out of the venue for trying to start a fight. Things only escalate from there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 09 Oct 2014, 02:25
Emily is not exactly good at keeping secrets (as shown here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2573)). There is a distinct possibility that Emily might "out" Claire to the others (probably by accident, not by malice). This will no doubt hurt Claire if it ever happens.
Claire trusted two people. Marten and Emily. I trust her judgment. Also, I thought Emily's reaction was pretty cool.

She's enigmatic, and distinctly non-standard, but definitely likeable. A good person.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 03:46
Why is there such a great amount of people going 'no way could Marten actually have feelings for Claire!'?

Given Marten's track record with women (Moved clear across country for one, hooked up for "years" before being dumped for trust issues, had one till SHE moved clear across the country, one's still in space, and the other needs a shave and an infusion of zinc), he's not exactly the kind to be......lucky with them. I think history is gonna bite him back in the butt somehow.   

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women. Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.' He doesn't seem to have made any striking life changes. He didn't seem to have any particular connection with Claire, aside from it "feeling natural."

He's a switch personality. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_%28BDSM%29) I blame it on his mommy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 03:58

After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

Blame tapatalk, since I started staying home with my baby full time I haven't been on a computer in like 2 months, it's all phone all the time
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 04:00

Given Marten's track record with women (Moved clear across country for one, hooked up for "years" before being dumped for trust issues, had one till SHE moved clear across the country, one's still in space, and the other needs a shave and an infusion of zinc), he's not exactly the kind to be......lucky with them. I think history is gonna bite him back in the butt somehow.   

D's grooming habits non-withstanding why does she need zinc?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 04:00
It is true that Marten has a history of becoming involved (in one way or another) with aggressive and dominant women and I do think that this can, in part, be traced back to Veronica's personality and the necessary emotional defences Marten would have needed to survive a childhood with a mother like that.

He does seem to have a naturally gentle and laid-back personality (sometimes the girls call it 'being passive'). Whilst he can and does respond if pushed too far, he doesn't seek confrontation. That said, I do think he is attempting (for better or worse) to take control of his life. Note that this isn't really affecting his personality (he's still got the Zen calm thing going for him) but it is affecting his decision-making. He's stopped waiting for others to take the lead, although he clearly sometimes needs liquid courage to take the metaphorical bull by the horns - I empathise with that.


[edit]
Wow... serious typo fixed there!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 05:03
D's grooming habits non-withstanding why does she need zinc?

Zinc helps with memory.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 05:42
I guess I missed the reference initially, I couldn't think of anyone in the comic that "needs a shave," now I'm sad and grossed out by the body hair policing
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 05:50
It was sort of a weird way of putting D in a negative bucket with the rest of Marten's exes, and a bit of a reach as well.  Probably needs to reel that in a bit, but errbody should have a chance or three to recognize how their default responses to things can affect others.

With any luck, it'll just be 'oops, sorry about that,' and not 'dude, get a thicker skin.'
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: marsman57 on 09 Oct 2014, 05:52
I know there is a lot going on here, but has anyone commented on the fact that Mrs. A only wears glasses while cooking?

Maybe they are in fact just really stylish protective goggles. If so, what is the secret to her recipe!?!

Edit: While on the subject, I'm surprised that Claire didn't put her glasses back on when she got up. She doesn't strike me as the type to sleep in her contacts especially considering she's rarely (never???) worn them before this arc.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 09 Oct 2014, 06:20
It was a long time since I felt this emotionally invested in a work of fiction, to tell the truth. Maybe one reason is that we only get a little piece at a time, (one strip per day) that events that play out in a few minutes takes a long time to tell because of it.

Once again, I'm gonna quote the legend that is Bill Watterson here, because I love the man and he speaks the truth: "A comic strip takes just a few seconds to read, but over the years it creates a surprisingly deep connection with readers... Even in a few panels you can develop characters and express an outlook on life as the months go by and before you know it, readers are seriously invested in the world you've created... Readers do form an emotional bond with your strip."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mvdwege on 09 Oct 2014, 06:23
I think there's another dynamic in play here; one that is quite subtle, and possibly not a conscious plot by Jeph, but it is there nonetheless.

I talk of the issue of Marten's "passivity". I quote this because it is a social construct as much as anything else coming up in this discussion: the societal expectation of a man is that he will be driven to pursue a career, that he will be looking for success. Marten suffers because he does not live up to that image, he outright tells us; and many forumgoers are quite harsh on him, he should "man up" and start taking more initiative, showing more drive.

This social construct has been deconstructed multiple times in fiction, most famously in 'Death of a Salesman' by Arthur Miller and 'Hurry on Down' by John Wain. And whether subconsciously or consciously, I think Jeph is doing the same here.

While he is worrying over his attitude to life, Claire shows up and shows him the good side of his personality: the willingness to just enjoy the moment and judge things as he finds them. What Claire has to offer here is at least a partial validation that it is good to not be all driven all the time.

And as a parting thought: John Wain's book gives an out for the person that wants to opt out of the social rat-race: become an entertainer, a commentator from the sidelines of the rat-race. Isn't that just what Marten is working on? Maybe a relationship with Claire can give him that final push to throw away social expectations and fully throw himself into the band, or maybe even revitalise his attempt at music criticism.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 09 Oct 2014, 06:25

That said, I can see Claire, as the loyal girlfriend, suffering through Deathmole's first concert, mostly because I can see her being daring and squeezing into a leather waistcoat and trousers (believing that to be the uniform of the day, based on a half-understood off-hand comment from Hannelore). Naturally, she finds herself surrounded by more conventionally-dressed alternative rock fans.

"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"

"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"

"Whoa! Lucky dude!"

Naturally, it will be when she is in that get-up that Clinton catches up with them and accuses Marten of 'corrupting' Claire; she objects, loudly, and one of the hall's bouncers takes this as a license to throw Clinton out of the venue for trying to start a fight. Things only escalate from there.

Could be a very interesting scene (with or without Clinton, if he came into it it probably wouldn't be at the bar or where ever they were playing but later).

I really think that having a good, stable relationship with Marten will help Claire with any body issues she may or may not currently be having. I do think that what you have suggested is a distinct possibility if she gets dressed up and goes somewhere with him. That coupled with her new relationship would make her a lot more comfortable and/or give her more confidence in general about her body image.

Of course the flip side of that could be she gets dressed up, sees a bunch of other pretty girls, maybe has a minor freak out and asks/demands to know why Marten thinks she is attractive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 09 Oct 2014, 06:26
Jesus Christ what the fuck is people's problem with Delilah having some body hair? I remember when Marten first hooked up with her and there were some incredibly alarming attitudes in the WCDT. It's only a stone's throw away from 'and one of them needs to lose some weight.'

Putting aside the ridiculous standards women are held to in the Western world and the fact that a woman is actually allowed to have enough agency to decide for herself how much body hair she does or doesn't need, a lot of people are, spoiler warning: into body hair.

I couldn't give less of a fuck how long a woman's armpit hair is. In fact, if it's longer, it holds more sweat, and I love pit stench on my lovers. This is probably more than you needed to know about me (although way less than any of the regulars know already) but I'm angry so hopefully, if D still 'needs a shave' in your view, I'll have grossed you out as much as your post grossed me out.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 06:51
Heaven forbid a human being should have body hair! *gasp*

Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Oct 2014, 06:55
And here I thought he was referring to Bianchi International Airport...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 09 Oct 2014, 06:57
Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?

Funny you should ask - I just read this the other day!  (Never mind that the article is from 2009.)

http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 06:58
Quote
Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?

Changing social mores, I suppose.  I'm in my forties, and I'm not a big fan of hair below the ears on myself, though I recognize that there are (strongly) differing opinions on this.  Because of that, my preferences aren't something I would mention unless asked, and certainly not something I would point out that someone 'should' adhere to.

Porn may play a part, but I began shaving down in high school for swimming/wrestling, so it sorta pre-dates the move in porn.



Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: questionablydiscontent on 09 Oct 2014, 07:02
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 07:06
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/

That was an enlightening read. Thank you! I guess I'm just a simple guy at heart, I don't care what's there as much as being with someone willing to let me discover for myself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Oct 2014, 07:21
The expression on Claire's mother's face takes on a whole new meaning in light of panel 3 of this strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1041).  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 07:24
The expression on Claire's mother's face takes on a whole new meaning in light of panel 3 of this strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1041).  :-D

Well, maybe Mrs A isn't an amoral witch who had long ago driven her daughter into a long-term emotional illness the way Dora's mother has...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 07:26
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/

That was an enlightening read. Thank you! I guess I'm just a simple guy at heart, I don't care what's there as much as being with someone willing to let me discover for myself.

No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Oct 2014, 07:51
In regards to Claire and Clairemom's glasses... farsightedness is a thing. It's entirely possible that they only need glasses when they are reading things. Claire has been shown without glasses before, usually when going out at places she's not likely to need to read, like the wedding or the bar trip. She wears them when working because library, books. That sort of thing. Or maybe they are near sighted, but not so bad that they need to wear them all the time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 08:01
In regards to Claire and Clairemom's glasses... farsightedness is a thing.

Let's face it - farsightedness and a girl who always wanted to be a librarian go together so automatically that it's virtually a trope!

By the way, regarding Marten and Claire - "The Rocker and the Librarian"? It sort of writes itself as a funny 'odd couple' story, doesn't it? :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 09 Oct 2014, 08:04

"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"

"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"

"Whoa! Lucky dude!"


BROS BROS BROS BROS
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 08:06
No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!

But are you a fellow NBN player as well?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 08:07
No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!

But are you a fellow NBN player as well?

Started with NBN, now I'm playing with Jinteki.  Just got into the game about a month ago so I'm still trying to get a feel for the different identies.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 08:17
There's a part of me that wants to see a 4th wall breaking comic for tomorrow with Marten and Claire still cuddling on the porch, and Claire saying something along the lines of being afraid it's only a dream. Marten would make some comment about how messed up that would be and the last panel would be them staring at the readers. (only to find out on Monday that Clinton is there and silently freaking out.)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 08:28
There's a part of me that wants to see a 4th wall breaking comic for tomorrow...

An alternate last two panels would be for Marten to say: "Yeah, maybe this is a crazy web-comic that got away from the artist's control and has taken on a life of its own!" The last panel is the two of them laughing whilst a stick-figure of Jeph is shaking his fists at them in impotent rage.

Meta, yes?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Durmatagno on 09 Oct 2014, 08:29
After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Liiiiies! I had to find it again, but my majestic duck dragon has returned. Though Claire blushing is nice for some, I like my own stuff more.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: neurocase on 09 Oct 2014, 08:37
I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 08:38
After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Liiiiies! I had to find it again, but my majestic duck dragon has returned. Though Claire blushing is nice for some, I like my own stuff more.

That druckgon is awesome.  I can't decide on what I should use for my own.  So many choices it's hard to to pick one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 08:43

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Durmatagno on 09 Oct 2014, 08:46

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!

Thank you Roll20 for free wargaming so long as I have the rules themselves. Never could afford to play these things, but I looove anything with strategy, from 4x to games like pandemic, or archipelago. Side note, I wonder if Claire is/was a RPG gamer, and might pull Marten back into playing.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 09:01
I think there's another dynamic in play here; one that is quite subtle, and possibly not a conscious plot by Jeph, but it is there nonetheless.

I talk of the issue of Marten's "passivity". I quote this because it is a social construct as much as anything else coming up in this discussion: the societal expectation of a man is that he will be driven to pursue a career, that he will be looking for success. Marten suffers because he does not live up to that image, he outright tells us; and many forumgoers are quite harsh on him, he should "man up" and start taking more initiative, showing more drive.

This social construct has been deconstructed multiple times in fiction, most famously in 'Death of a Salesman' by Arthur Miller and 'Hurry on Down' by John Wain. And whether subconsciously or consciously, I think Jeph is doing the same here.

While he is worrying over his attitude to life, Claire shows up and shows him the good side of his personality: the willingness to just enjoy the moment and judge things as he finds them. What Claire has to offer here is at least a partial validation that it is good to not be all driven all the time.

And as a parting thought: John Wain's book gives an out for the person that wants to opt out of the social rat-race: become an entertainer, a commentator from the sidelines of the rat-race. Isn't that just what Marten is working on? Maybe a relationship with Claire can give him that final push to throw away social expectations and fully throw himself into the band, or maybe even revitalise his attempt at music criticism.

All good points. Society at large values the "Alpha" male (a phrase I've never liked, and dislike all the more since the "Men's Rights" crowd got hold of it), and has no idea what in the hell to do with people who don't, prefer not to, or can't be bothered to, conform to that role. On the other hand, as pretty much anybody who isn't cis/white/male/hetero is likely to tell you, society hasn't quite got the hang of them, either.

I couldn't give less of a fuck how long a woman's armpit hair is. In fact, if it's longer, it holds more sweat, and I love pit stench on my lovers. This is probably more than you needed to know about me (although way less than any of the regulars know already) but I'm angry so hopefully, if D still 'needs a shave' in your view, I'll have grossed you out as much as your post grossed me out.

(click to show/hide)

Kinda disappointed in your spoiler, Gareth. I fully expected a woman with some truly resplendent body hair. ;)

Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?

I could be in the minority in saying this, but I don't think it's a bad thing. It's generally what happens when you start looking at the rest of someone, and their "otherness" recedes more into the background. If you're constantly conscious that you're hanging out with your gay friend (as an example) as opposed to, "It's great to hang out with so-and-so again. We really need to do this more often. And -- oh, Christ, is that another one of those toenail thingies in my burger? I hate when that happens," then you're kinda missing the point of that person. There are any number of accurate descriptors that you can attach to a person, but it's kinda like the blind men and the elephant -- you're never going to get the full picture if you just stop there.

All of which is a longish way of saying, as long as you're not willfully ignoring it (trans* and bi invisibility are things, after all), I wouldn't sweat it much, if at all.

Just my $.02 worth, mind you. I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong in no uncertain terms at least half a dozen times before sundown. :P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 09:05
[REDACTED]

There are like, a hundred other ways to have sex. God forbid two lovers might need to overcome a challenge with tenderness and creativity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 09 Oct 2014, 09:11
This is what happens when I am away from the net for three days. TL;DNR

Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.
If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.
This had me thinking about Misako Kurata from "Childs Toy" though in her case it was either a chipmunk or a squirrel, depending on the translation.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 09 Oct 2014, 09:11
*This was a snide joke (I am a being composed entirely of facetiousness), but I'm deleting it just to be sure I respect the rules.*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 09 Oct 2014, 09:16
I sure hope that Cochise post is gone soon.

Anyway.

Kinda disappointed in your spoiler, Gareth. I fully expected a woman with some truly resplendent body hair. ;)

(http://s2.hubimg.com/u/5977295_f496.jpg)

Probably photoshopped, but fuck it, that's what five seconds of Googling gets me.

Couldn't even find PJ Harvey on the cover of NME. I mean seriously fuck NME but at least that cover was cool.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kryptoknight on 09 Oct 2014, 09:19
Clairemom might just prefer not to wear her glasses when eating.  Some people are like that.  I'm near-sighted and the only times I don't wear my glasses is when I am reading something close-up or when I'm eating.  Somehow it's just more comfortable without them.  I don't know if I can really explain it.

Personally as a loudly self professed geek and a long time gamer comic 134 has always kind of put me on edge.  I can't help getting pissed off every time I read Faye's comment.  It plays into the ongoing stereotype that geeks and gamers are doomed to be eternal awkward virgins.  It's a stereotype that just really pushes my buttons. 

PS: Preeeeetty sure we're not supposed to be speculating on the mechanics involved in sex between Marten and Claire guys.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 09:20

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!

So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 09 Oct 2014, 09:21
Moderator Comment I don't have time to sort through the posts right now, but there is a new stickied post which you should read.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 09:26

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the greater good!*
FTFY. 

I, too, hate the stereotypes that come along with being a gamer/geek/etc., but of all the negative stereotypes out there, I see way this one reinforced every time I go to a convention.  It's kind of sad, really.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 09:28
Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.

If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.

No squirrel needed: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2360 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2360)

Of course, if Claire ever does get a haircut, we'll probably see all sorts of things scattered among the curls on the salon floor... I suppose a squirrel or chipmunk may have been trapped there accidentally, along with assorted leaves, dandelion seeds, candy wrappers, etc. (cue Emily: "So THAT's where my ring went!").
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lines on 09 Oct 2014, 09:30
Garbage.

Global Moderator Comment  We have said repeatedly that this line of discussion is unacceptable. Do. Not. Speculate. About. Claire's. Parts
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 09:31
Of course, if Claire ever does get a haircut, we'll probably see all sorts of things scattered among the curls on the salon floor... I suppose a squirrel or chipmunk may have been trapped there accidentally, along with assorted leaves, dandelion seeds, candy wrappers, etc. (cue Emily: "So THAT's where my ring went!").

Damn, you beat me to it!  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kryptoknight on 09 Oct 2014, 09:33
Maybe I just don't go to the right kind of conventions.  I usually go to Comic-Con (Which is really more of all all-encompassing pop culture convention these days than a comic convention but that's a whole other convo.) and I rarely see that many people who lend credence to that stereotype.  Maybe the more gaming centric conventions have a different crowd.

Also, I'm fairly confident that if anyone tried to cut Claire's hair it would simply break the clippers/scissors.  That girl has some THICK hair.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Oct 2014, 09:35
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 09 Oct 2014, 09:40
There are like, a hundred other ways to have sex.

This and a lot of stuff that has gone before remind me of the story of how Queen Victoria's government made homosexuality illegal for men only, because the Queen couldn't see how it was possible for women to "do it" and her MP's were all too embarrassed to explain.

But we're in the 21st century now, FFS!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Loki on 09 Oct 2014, 09:41
Amusing story :) However, I think it is best we stop that direction of thought.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 09:45
I'm convinced that Claire's floofy hair is actually a sentient organism and the first time Marten does that whole 'resting chin on her head' thing that couples like to do when they're snuggling it'll attach itself to his face and Marten will finally have that bitchin' beard that just cannot grow.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 09:47
No squirrel needed: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2360 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2360)

You know, it's Marten's expression in the last panel that sells this strip. "I turn my back on these damn kids for just one minute!" he seems to be saying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 09:50
I'm convinced that Claire's floofy hair is actually a sentient organism and the first time Marten does that whole 'resting chin on her head' thing that couples like to do when they're snuggling it'll attach itself to his face and Marten will finally have that bitchin' beard that just cannot grow.

Yeah, as if Marten's grown up enough that he wouldn't scream like someone in Norman Bates' shower.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Oct 2014, 09:50
Claire's hair is obviously an eldritch horror from beyond space and time. Clairethulhu fhtagn.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 09 Oct 2014, 09:51
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...
Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 09:51
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...

Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.

Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: celticgeek on 09 Oct 2014, 09:53
We're working on the technology.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 09:53
The real question is if claire gets it cut will she get the hairstylist that is making the hair tunnel.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Oct 2014, 09:54
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...

Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.

Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.

Maybe Invar shears will work?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 09:54
Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.

Great, now I want a QC minecraft server. I don't even play minecraft anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Oct 2014, 09:55
I'll mention it to my son. He's eager to learn programming so that he can create Minecraft mods. He's planning to make the "Random Bizarre Stuff That Sounds Cool to a 9-Year-Old Kid" mod.

Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.

Great, now I want a QC minecraft server. I don't even play minecraft anymore.

We have one. Check the thread in the "Click" forum.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 09 Oct 2014, 10:16
The real question is if claire gets it cut will she get the hairstylist that is making the hair tunnel.

That could end in tragedy, if Hairdresser ever gets someone to go in.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Pilchard123 on 09 Oct 2014, 10:17
I'll mention it to my son. He's eager to learn programming so that he can create Minecraft mods. He's planning to make the "Random Bizarre Stuff That Sounds Cool to a 9-Year-Old Kid" mod.

Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.

Great, now I want a QC minecraft server. I don't even play minecraft anymore.

We have one. Check the thread in the "Click" forum.

The rent is lapsing soon though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 10:18


I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the greater good!*
FTFY. 

I, too, hate the stereotypes that come along with being a gamer/geek/etc., but of all the negative stereotypes out there, I see way this one reinforced every time I go to a convention.  It's kind of sad, really.

Dealing with the community online is almost worse, people who despise inclusiveness come out of the woodwork so fast, God forbid the topic of female space marines comes up and the descent into madness is swift.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 10:23


I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the greater good!*
FTFY. 

I, too, hate the stereotypes that come along with being a gamer/geek/etc., but of all the negative stereotypes out there, I see way this one reinforced every time I go to a convention.  It's kind of sad, really.

Dealing with the community online is almost worse, people who despise inclusiveness come out of the woodwork so fast, God forbid the topic of female space marines comes up and the descent into madness is swift.

Boy tell me about it.  It's one of the reasons I've almost quit WoW completely and is one of the two reasons why I don't play 40k or M:tG anymore (the other being cost).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Border Reiver on 09 Oct 2014, 10:29

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!

So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?

No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 10:32
[No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)

Or 4000 points of Squats.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 09 Oct 2014, 10:58
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...

Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.

Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
Depending on the system.

DnD 3.5 Core Rules as well as a 1890's gaslight variant both had adamantine shears of sharpness - ware you lose a loose wiggly or sticky-outy bit with those.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 11:12

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)

Edit: looks like what I said wasnt posted

In my warhammer fantasy group one of the guys actually has a full chaos dwarf army. I only got my lowly Death Korps of Krieg and a few forgeworld knights

My friend actually has one. I just have a lowly death korp army with a few forgeworld knights

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!

So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?

No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 11:15

[No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)

Or 4000 points of Squats.

Mmmmmm, tasty

/hivemind
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smashwidget on 09 Oct 2014, 11:30
[No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)

Or 4000 points of Squats.
Too bad the Commissar assassinated every single Squat in the galaxy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 11:31
Great job man

Well, dang, son.

Btw mate

I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:

(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: barry thelawyer on 09 Oct 2014, 11:41
hurf burf I'm an idiot
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 11:46
Wow that was fast.  I think in the three seconds it took me click back to the topic that tool was gone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 11:46
hurf burf I'm an idiot
Ŧ Last Edit: Today at 11:44 AM by jeph ŧ

<3
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aimless on 09 Oct 2014, 11:53
Dammit I was gonna replace the text with

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 11:55
Great job man

Well, dang, son.

Btw mate

I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:

(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)

Believe it or not latin was an extremely masculine language and you see that in all languages that have a roots in latin much like english. So I wouldnt take it that hard
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Oct 2014, 11:57
Believe me, as a trans woman being refered to with male pronouns all day long, even innocently, is extreme aggravating and wearying. That's why I default to 'they' if I'm not sure of a person's gender.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 12:00
Like so many things in a male-dominated society, it's a learning process.  First you figure out what shit is, then you notice you're standing in it, then you learn to go around it.

I'm doing better at not standing in it, and I apologize in advance if I track it on your rug.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 12:02
Believe it or not latin was an extremely masculine language and you see that in all languages that have a roots in latin much like english. So I wouldnt take it that hard

Thanks for that, sister.

No problem, its learning how to not take things at face value. Its an important life lesson
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 12:17
No problem, its learning how to not take things at face value. Its an important life lesson

Oh life, will your important lessons never cease?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 12:19
No problem, its learning how to not take things at face value. Its an important life lesson

Oh life, will your important lessons never cease?

Never
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 12:21
Life is the worst teacher ever.  Not only can the classes start at any time of the day you don't even get a chance to study. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 12:21
Life is the worst teacher ever.  Not only can the classes start at any time of the day you don't even get a chance to study.

Could be worse life could teach you like Socrates
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 12:23
"I drank what?"

- Socrates
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Oct 2014, 12:26
Oh life, will your important lessons never cease?

Well, yes, but not in a way that you'd like.  :angelface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Storel on 09 Oct 2014, 12:26
I think most likely, Marten will admit to feelings he has for Claire and will say that if she's nervous or trepidatious, he can give her time until she's ready to make that step. To which Claire will interrupt him mid-sentence with a kiss.

If this happens, I will buy you ten of whatever you're drinking/eating.

Well, some minor details differed but as far as the essence of it goes, I'd say Rubick nailed it. +10 prescience points.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Ustrello on 09 Oct 2014, 12:28
"I drank what?"

- Socrates

If only there was an exalt or an upvote button
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 12:31
I'd love to be able to take credit for the line, but I first heard it said by Val Kilmer's character in Real Genius.

A long, LONG time ago.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Oct 2014, 12:49
Personally, I simply assume everyone is a woman, until proven otherwise.

In a court of law.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 09 Oct 2014, 12:49
Great job man

Well, dang, son.

Btw mate

I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:

(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)

Oops. Sorry. Will an apology hug and cookie suffice?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mvdwege on 09 Oct 2014, 12:52
[...] Society at large values the "Alpha" male (a phrase I've never liked, and dislike all the more since the "Men's Rights" crowd got hold of it), and has no idea what in the hell to do with people who don't, prefer not to, or can't be bothered to, conform to that role. On the other hand, as pretty much anybody who isn't cis/white/male/hetero is likely to tell you, society hasn't quite got the hang of them, either.

The constant harping on Marten's laid-back attitude as a bad thing has been getting on my nerves for quite some time now. Note very well that complete passivity is not good either; this is partly linked to simple self-preservation: you have to take care of yourself. But beyond the pathological, there is nothing wrong with not being ambitious.

In my eyes Claire is a bit of a framebuster. She turned up in Marten's life just as he was questioning himself, and the way his personality seems to be an ideal fit for her both romantically and in dealing with her issues (mostly her anxiety) feels to me a bit like it has given Marten a jolt, so that he now can start dealing constructively with his feelings of inadequacy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 13:06
Oops. Sorry. Will an apology hug and cookie suffice?

(http://i.imgur.com/ZWX1gNJ.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 09 Oct 2014, 13:38
Careful with the hair! Or is that supposed to be a revenge-hug?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 13:48
Careful with the hair! Or is that supposed to be a revenge-hug?

IIRC, Marten DID get hair in his mouth on that occasion. He swore he would never hug with his mouth open again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 09 Oct 2014, 13:50
I think his mouth wasn't open and he still managed to get hair in it. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 14:06
It was sort of a weird way of putting D in a negative bucket with the rest of Marten's exes, and a bit of a reach as well.  Probably needs to reel that in a bit, but errbody should have a chance or three to recognize how their default responses to things can affect others.

With any luck, it'll just be 'oops, sorry about that,' and not 'dude, get a thicker skin.'

Question Marten's dating history in relation to current events, goes off the rails on tangent about a character's traits.

Priorities.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Estron on 09 Oct 2014, 14:33
If the sub-plot goes one more day, here's what I'd like to see:

Marten and Claire disengage from their snuggle-hug, and she says how glad she is that Marten was so open and honest.

He responds: "Well, I wanted to make absolutely certain that my interest was --  CLAIRE!"

And then gets that same goofy expression that Claire gets when she's just made a pun and she's waiting for the other person to get it . . . .   :claireface:

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rimwolf on 09 Oct 2014, 14:45
He responds: "Well, I wanted to make absolutely certain that my interest was --  CLAIRE!"

That's a slender reed to build a relationship on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 14:53
Of people who've recently joined, I gotta say that April's posts are the most fun to read. Well-cited analysis? Yup. Ability to clip fitting scenes from the comic in responses where appropriate? Yup. Good thoughts in general? Yup.

I'd like to give you a high five, or something.

Also: Holy crap, we're at 25 pages and we don't even have Friday's strip yet. We might break 30 by the time it's over.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 15:05
That's a slender reed to build a relationship on.

(http://i.imgur.com/NpHncLl.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 15:22
Great job man

Well, dang, son.

Btw mate

I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:

(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)

And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself.

I live and work in Guadalajara, Mexico, and therefore, I speak Spanish everyday. Here, all young people use a word: Ŧgüeyŧ. It is a corruption of Ŧbueyŧ, that is, an ox or a bullock, itself a bovine trained as a draft animal, commonly a castrated adult male cattle. Everyone use it as a familiar and funny way to refer to a friend, not only present, but with whom you are speaking directly at; we use it as an intensifier,  to attract attention to something or someone, as a nickname, as an insult and as a punctuation sign.

 Cue the examples:
—How are you, güey?
—Güey, you missed the most amazing party ever, güey!
—Can you believe what that güey is doing rignt now?!
—Güey, where have you been!?
—You're exceptionally güey today, güey...

Now, and this is important, Ŧgüeyŧ has changed from an insult used between adult males to a general-use word in less than ten years.
In 1980, it was used just as an insult among the older male population; whom actually understand what a Ŧbueyŧ was.
By 1986, after the Big Quake on Mexico City in 1985, and as a result of massive migration, young males started to use it as an insult.
By 1887, young girls started to use it as an expletive.
By 1989, everyone was using it as an insult without knowing what an ox was.
By 1992, Ŧgüeyŧ was an unisex word and forgot all its original meaning, while Ŧbueyŧ still means Ŧoxŧ.
In any of the examples I delivered before, you CAN'T tell, without context, if it was pronounced by a man, a woman, or a chimera. It used to mean "emasculated bull" and now it means "dude". And it is used by boys to refer to boys, boys to refer to girls, girls to refer to boys, and girls to refer to girls, and a fukken lot of combinations and permutations between sexes and genders and whatever.

I use dude, mate, guy, bloke and even boy as a unisex word. Not gender neutral, but unisex, because usually, where I work and teach, men are majority and we see women as human beings, therefore, we integrate them in our language. It happens to me when I go to a place with a majority of women; they tend to see me as a big-stuff lifter, but still I'm a human being, and I don't mind if they refer to me, when I'm in the group, as Ŧgirlŧ. I didn't mind when, in Italy and Germany, the feminine plural was used for our group of students, even if we where 25 guys and 10 girls; it's the way it is.

What I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous to assume use of the masculine default is pernicious: it is part of the evolution of languages to become inclusive, and some chose to use the masculine as gender-neutral inclusive, while others use the feminine. Languages evolve; societies evolve. Even Pokémon evolve. Two hundred years ago, there where slavery; a hundred years ago, there was segregation. Now? Now we're a bunch of expletives discussing language instead of pancakes, like any civilized culture should do.

Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Just four?! We're getting slow...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 09 Oct 2014, 15:29
Oops. Sorry. Will an apology hug and cookie suffice?

(http://i.imgur.com/ZWX1gNJ.png)

AAACK PFFFT OH GOD I THINK IT'S ALIVE
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TomOBedlam on 09 Oct 2014, 15:37

And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself. ...

What I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous to assume use of the masculine default is pernicious: it is part of the evolution of languages to become inclusive, and some chose to use the masculine as gender-neutral inclusive, while others use the feminine. Languages evolve; societies evolve. Even Pokémon evolve. Two hundred years ago, there where slavery; a hundred years ago, there was segregation. Now? Now we're a bunch of expletives discussing language instead of pancakes, like any civilized culture should do.

Great explanataion, vforvancouver - now I need to go and re-evaluate my thinking about the word 'bloke'...  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 09 Oct 2014, 15:40
Great job man

Well, dang, son.

Btw mate

I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:

(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)

And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself.

I live and work in Guadalajara, Mexico, and therefore, I speak Spanish everyday. Here, all young people use a word: Ŧgüeyŧ. It is a corruption of Ŧbueyŧ, that is, an ox or a bullock, itself a bovine trained as a draft animal, commonly a castrated adult male cattle. Everyone use it as a familiar and funny way to refer to a friend, not only present, but with whom you are speaking directly at; we use it as an intensifier,  to attract attention to something or someone, as a nickname, as an insult and as a punctuation sign.

 Cue the examples:
—How are you, güey?
—Güey, you missed the most amazing party ever, güey!
—Can you believe what that güey is doing rignt now?!
—Güey, where have you been!?
—You're exceptionally güey today, güey...

Now, and this is important, Ŧgüeyŧ has changed from an insult used between adult males to a general-use word in less than ten years.
In 1980, it was used just as an insult among the older male population; whom actually understand what a Ŧbueyŧ was.
By 1986, after the Big Quake on Mexico City in 1985, and as a result of massive migration, young males started to use it as an insult.
By 1887, young girls started to use it as an expletive.
By 1989, everyone was using it as an insult without knowing what an ox was.
By 1992, Ŧgüeyŧ was an unisex word and forgot all its original meaning, while Ŧbueyŧ still means Ŧoxŧ.
In any of the examples I delivered before, you CAN'T tell, without context, if it was pronounced by a man, a woman, or a chimera. It used to mean "emasculated bull" and now it means "dude". And it is used by boys to refer to boys, boys to refer to girls, girls to refer to boys, and girls to refer to girls, and a fukken lot of combinations and permutations between sexes and genders and whatever.

I use dude, mate, guy, bloke and even boy as a unisex word. Not gender neutral, but unisex, because usually, where I work and teach, men are majority and we see women as human beings, therefore, we integrate them in our language. It happens to me when I go to a place with a majority of women; they tend to see me as a big-stuff lifter, but still I'm a human being, and I don't mind if they refer to me, when I'm in the group, as Ŧgirlŧ. I didn't mind when, in Italy and Germany, the feminine plural was used for our group of students, even if we where 25 guys and 10 girls; it's the way it is.

What I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous to assume use of the masculine default is pernicious: it is part of the evolution of languages to become inclusive, and some chose to use the masculine as gender-neutral inclusive, while others use the feminine. Languages evolve; societies evolve. Even Pokémon evolve. Two hundred years ago, there where slavery; a hundred years ago, there was segregation. Now? Now we're a bunch of expletives discussing language instead of pancakes, like any civilized culture should do.

Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Just four?! We're getting slow...


We have similar words in our circle, usually profane, such as b*tch and f***.  Older generations, mostly from political strains in the area, commonly use the term "sunuvabidge" in conversation.  Amongst close friends, "doofus" is popular.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 09 Oct 2014, 15:55
That "FFFFFF" image is a really perfect one to work into conversation.  :-D

Also, I'm fairly confident that if anyone tried to cut Claire's hair it would simply break the clippers/scissors.  That girl has some THICK hair.

Or Claire's hair would swallow up the scissors, and they'd never be seen again.

Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?
I think it's awesome that you can read that a character is trans and be so comfortable with that fact that you can forget all about it and focus on other things about her.  In a perfect world, we'd all be a lot less inclined to identify people by such things.  Go you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 16:01
  • It demonstrates disregard for my transgender history. Being referred to with masculine terminology can be triggering for trans women, due to our history of having to fight against public misperception.

I am not what you could call a man, even if I look like one. I am a chimera of XY, XX and XXY chromosomes. My DNA depends which part of my body you're testing. My birth certificate is blank in the square marked "sex". I am my own twin sister and my own twin brother. I am not exactly a man, nor a woman, and the only way I can have offspring is by cloning.  Yeah, I know what it means not to fit in a society. Yet I fit, I fight, and I man up. Or I human being up, if you prefer.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 16:04
I am not what you could call a man, even if I look like one. I am a chimera of XY, XX and XXY chromosomes. My DNA depends which part of my body you're testing. My birth certificate is blank in the square marked "sex". I am my own twin sister and my own twin brother. I am not exactly a man, nor a woman, and the only way I can have offspring is by cloning.  Yeah, I know what it means not to fit in a society. Yet I fit, I fight, and I man up. Of I human being up, if you prefer.

Being trans or intersex does not make someone incapable of transphobia or gender essentialism, and should not be whipped out as a sort of Palladium when called out on poor behavior. I've done transphobic things in the past, despite being trans. I've also hurt people's feelings by belaboring an intellectual point when empathy was the course of action called for.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 16:14
Being trans or intersex does not make someone incapable of transphobia or gender essentialism, and should not be whipped out as a sort of Palladium when called out on poor behavior. I've done transphobic things in the past, despite being trans. I've also hurt people's feelings by belaboring an intellectual point when empathy was the course of action called for.

Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?

Wait... I'd love to have a miniature storm in my living room...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 16:18
Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?

You mean I'll agree to keep getting upset when people casually misgender me, and you'll agree to keep calling people "ridiculous" when they express dismay at being casually misgendered?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Oct 2014, 16:20
And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself.

Words are weird. They mean exactly what most people think they mean, which is literally how "literally" has come to mean "figuratively, but, like, intense, man!"


I picked that example for a reason. Literally doesn't mean just figuratively, in its new meaning. It's understood to be hyperbolic. This is eye rolling, expletive spitting, soil your undergarments level figurative. As in "ReindeerFlotilla is LITERALLY beating us over the head with this example!"

What I am belaboring is connotation. How we use a term--how we mean to use it--isn't necessarily in line with what the term connotes. Using "literally" as an intensifying term in certain terms would be confusing. "Dude, she tried to hit on that indie boy, and literally fell on her face." Here it's not clear if she made a bad pass and was rejected, or if she tripped and landed face first.

Gendered terms connote gender. That's not necessarily intrinsic--we've definitely gotten to the point that "guys" tends to be plural for everyone present unless the context indicates a sweeping generalization about men, or a specific group of men ("Keep it down, guys" vs "Guys only want one thing" vs "I'm going to go hang with the guys.") Similarly, with dude. Saying "dude! Chill!" is unisex, but "check that dude out" would tend to connote a man as the object.

My point: it is not unreasonable to think that the words in question (man, dude, mate) were intended as gendered. Yes, they can be unisex, but how communication is received is just as important as how it was intended. Whether a word can mean a thing has to be balanced against what it means to the listener in that context.

The best example I can come up with comes from Star Trek.

Pulaski: Dat-uh/Date-uh? What's the difference?
Data: One is my name. The other is not.

If a person objects to being referred to in terms that can imply gender, it is not unreasonable to acknowledge and respect that. To me, this is no different than Dat-uh/Date-uh, Jeff/Jeph, Martin/Marten, Fay/Faye, etc. The intentions can be understood but the objection is no less valid. Some people will care. Some won't. Respect is the acknowledgment that adjustment to those who do care costs very little. It's basically free.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Oct 2014, 16:21
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?

If I were Claire I would regard that as a relief.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 16:21
Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?

You mean I'll agree to keep getting upset when people casually misgender me, and you'll agree to keep calling people "ridiculous" when they express dismay at being casually misgendered?

Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.

http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O (http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 16:26
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.

(http://i.imgur.com/OQ4xcNA.png)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 16:28
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.

(http://i.imgur.com/OQ4xcNA.png)

Told you!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 16:28
Quote
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.

Tastes vary; seems like you're intelligent enough to recognize that just because you don't feel something doesn't mean no one does, and that if someone tells you something hurts them, you'd give it a miss out of basic decency.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 16:34
Also: Holy crap, we're at 25 pages and we don't even have Friday's strip yet. We might break 30 by the time it's over.

Dollar says it's 35.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 16:46
Tastes vary; seems like you're intelligent enough to recognize that just because you don't feel something doesn't mean no one does, and that if someone tells you something hurts them, you'd give it a miss out of basic decency.

Perhaps it is just me being sick (I've been in bed, with 38.5°C, almost all day, and I'm usually not; both sick, and on the forums), but I believe we don't achieve anything if we don't do something for fear of hurting someone whom may or may not exist. Perhaps is is hardened skin; I had to choose between being a boy or a girl and chose not to being one of those to begin with. It still hurts if I can't find a date because they where expecting me to be something I am not, but for those who chose to see me as what I am I am grateful and I refuse to give them crap about the war between genders and me. That's just me. I am me.

And ibuprofen. I am me and ibuprofen right now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 16:51
Quote
I believe we don't achieve anything if we don't do something for fear of hurting someone whom may or may not exist.

I can follow that, and I even agree to a certain extent.  However, unless we get all philosophical about whether April or anyone else who has expressed displeasure about being referred to incorrectly actually "exists," that argument sort of falls flat.

Sorry to hear about you being sick; hope you feel better soon.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 16:54
Sorry to hear about you being sick; hope you feel better soon.

Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 16:55
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century. A more modern usage arising in the late 15th Century refers to a sailor on a ship, usually in a specific role. Gunner's Mate, Bosun's Mate, etc, (Note that in modern navies you can find women in all of those positions and they are all referred to the same. Ex. My friend is Gunner's Mate Second Class Ashley Whatshername, and eventually evolved into a generic term for a sailor. "Hey mate! Avast matey! etc" Outside of our beloved naval linguistics in the Navy, Marines and Merchant Marine, it's been picked up as slang for a friend by the Australians who originally wanted to sound more like pirates, and spread from there.

Tally ho mates.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: greywolfe on 09 Oct 2014, 17:04
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Oct 2014, 17:10
Accidental rudeness is still rudeness even if the other person is OK with it. When someone says they're offended the proper response is usually not to get defensive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 17:12
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 09 Oct 2014, 17:24
If the sub-plot goes one more day, here's what I'd like to see:

Marten and Claire disengage from their snuggle-hug, and she says how glad she is that Marten was so open and honest.

He responds: "Well, I wanted to make absolutely certain that my interest was --  CLAIRE!"


And then gets that same goofy expression that Claire gets when she's just made a pun and she's waiting for the other person to get it . . . .   :claireface:
I misread this somewhat like how it's edited- Basically, Claire says she's happy Marten was open and honest, then goes :claireface: and we're not sure why
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 09 Oct 2014, 17:25
So, am I the only one who noticed that Momma Augustus chugged like a cup or so of orange juice?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 09 Oct 2014, 17:26
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?

Have you not watched the Discovery Channel?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Oct 2014, 17:27
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?

They are very friendly people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 17:29
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?

Have you not watched the Discovery Channel?

I remember something about bonobos...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Storel on 09 Oct 2014, 17:30
That is, pairs like "actor"/"actress" level towards the masculine "actor", but feminine words like "stewardess" are never extended to include males, they are replaced with terms like "flight attendant".

As someone who is interested in linquistics but never studied it formally, I always wondered why they didn't just go with "steward" instead of "flight attendant". To me, "steward"/"stewardess" are the same kind of pair as "actor/actress".

Then again, some people feel strongly enough that the male term should not become the default that they invented unisex terms like "waitron" (instead of "waiter"/"waitress"), which always sounded to me like a robot waiter. So maybe that's why "flight attendant" took over, as sounding more gender-neutral?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 17:36
Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.

Dum spiro, spero.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: vforvancouver on 09 Oct 2014, 17:38
Yaaay, new comic...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CUBErt on 09 Oct 2014, 17:43
Well, Faye's close. Just scratch the "sexy" bit.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 17:43
It''s a bit sad, but I've been so caught up with Marten and Claire that it sorta seems weird to get a comic with Faye and Dora in it.

Heh; I'm such a dork.  At this point I'd have been good with four panels of Claire and Marten just staring at each other, with minor variations on their smiles.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 09 Oct 2014, 17:44
That's about what I expected from Tai.

I really hope that when Faye/Dora sees one of them at some point in the near future they don't lead with a question about sex. That might not end well.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 09 Oct 2014, 17:44
DORA'S FACE IS TOO PRECIOUS.

I love her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Oct 2014, 17:45
And nobody at all should be surprised by any of these reactions...

Now I go sailing off into the weekend.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: grouchygizmo on 09 Oct 2014, 17:47
Why surprised? Look at their group- full of different types of people. You have straight people, gay people, bi-sexual people, people who like anime a little too much, people who don't like to be touched, someone who punched a robot for no good reason... it seems like this group would be okay with whatever goes on, honestly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 09 Oct 2014, 17:53
Okay, so bean plating time:  He's changed the font of the title for the first time in seems like forever.

Also, maybe it's just me, but he's gotten REALLY good at an expressive single line smile.

Lastly, having other characters talking about this seems to have ruled out the possibility of this being all a dream, which I was still sorta worried about.

You folks have an awesome night.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Grismandir on 09 Oct 2014, 17:54
Horrible busy work week, haven't even taken time to read whole thread, just wanted to drop by and

\○/     squeeeeeeeee    \○/

(Actually, I'm really more of a 'yessssssss' like the Tequila Monster, but I'm making an effort to be less creepy)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: greywolfe on 09 Oct 2014, 17:55
lol@Tai, voice of the forums.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Oct 2014, 17:56
Tai is one of us.

ONE OF US

ONE OF US
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 09 Oct 2014, 18:02
Jeph is really into drawing pursed lips lately. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 09 Oct 2014, 18:08
Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.

Dum spiro, spero.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by schoolboys to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.


Also, Clairaten: Sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeee (first time I've ever said that, because "YES!!!" (fist pump) simply doesn't cut it)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 09 Oct 2014, 18:10
Tai is one of us.

ONE OF US

ONE OF US

Gooble-gobble
Gooble-gobble
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 09 Oct 2014, 18:11
I wanna know what Dora told Tai. I mean, if she said what Faye said, Tai's just hearing second-hand news about something that maybe happened, and the response doesn't go with that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 18:14
First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.

We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 18:25
Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?

You mean I'll agree to keep getting upset when people casually misgender me, and you'll agree to keep calling people "ridiculous" when they express dismay at being casually misgendered?

Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.

http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O (http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O)

And that's fine... when it's applied to you, and if you're alright with it. Point is, you don't get to pick and choose how your words affect others, or to tell them whether or not they should mind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 09 Oct 2014, 18:28
Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 18:32
Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.

And THAT is why Tai is crazy about her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 18:37
I use dude, mate, guy, bloke and even boy as a unisex word. Not gender neutral, but unisex, because usually, where I work and teach, men are majority and we see women as human beings, therefore, we integrate them in our language. It happens to me when I go to a place with a majority of women; they tend to see me as a big-stuff lifter, but still I'm a human being, and I don't mind if they refer to me, when I'm in the group, as Ŧgirlŧ. I didn't mind when, in Italy and Germany, the feminine plural was used for our group of students, even if we where 25 guys and 10 girls; it's the way it is.

I have a degree in formal linguistics and I am familiar enough with the process of language change to know that the scenario you describe - semantic leveling from marked masculine terms to unmarked neuter terms - does not happen in reverse. That is, pairs like "actor"/"actress" level towards the masculine "actor", but feminine words like "stewardess" are never extended to include males, they are replaced with terms like "flight attendant". I recommend Deborah Tannen's essay, "Marked Woman, Unmarked Man (http://faculty.georgetown.edu/tannend/nyt062093.htm)" for an introduction to this topic.

Using a male designator for a person of unknown sex is hurtful for several reasons:
This is not an absolute fact of our language, though, and by introducing gender neutral speech into your everyday vocabulary, you have the power to break this pattern.

So:

Comic Strip Critic: Thank you very much for recognizing that you'd hurt my feelings and apologizing right away.

Ustrello: It is unfair of you to force someone into a detailed argument when they've stated that they don't have the emotional stamina for it, just to be referred to respectfully. I hope you'll think hard about how you handled yourself in this conversation and change your behavior in the future.

vforvancouver: There is no female plural in German, so your assertion that you tolerate feminine forms of address in that language rings empty. German has a single plural used for all groups, mixed or otherwise. It resembles the feminine form in the nominative, accusative and genitive cases, but it is distinct the dative.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: greywolfe on 09 Oct 2014, 18:40
Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.
And THAT is why Tai is crazy about her.

That's her dissertation finger.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 18:45
There goes Tai, speaking for a large segment of the forum.  :-D

I just hope they don't vocally read too much into things the next time they see one of them. That could be awkward, given that this may be one of the first relationships in the QCverse that's actually taking things slow and easy (for the moment, anyway).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 18:59
Why surprised? Look at their group- full of different types of people. You have straight people, gay people, bi-sexual people, people who like anime a little too much, people who don't like to be touched, someone who punched a robot for no good reason... it seems like this group would be okay with whatever goes on, honestly.

I dunno, even though the group is open in many ways, there are ways it can be closed.

Aside from family (Clinton, "Mother" Augustus), only two people (AFAWK) know Claire is Transgendered (Marten & Emily). It's a safe bet to assume that the rest of the group thinks Claire is a "biological" female.

Faye probably assumes as much given recent events (Unless Jeph drops a bombshell......). How she is about transgendered folks is up in the air, seeing we can't assume from the facts that she has a Lesbian Sister (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=164) and works with a Boss that is in a Lesbian relationship. While she is front the south, she does mention that she hates the religious attitude of the place. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=625)   

Dora/Tai also are up in the air as well. Tai may be a Lesbian and probably LBGQT (or however it's acronymed....) aware/friendly, it's kinda hard to gauge if she does know or how she would react. Dora.......I dunno. She's gone wishy-washy with her relationships, and has made some SERIOUS blunders relationship wise, so I wouldn't put it past her to completely fuck up this situation somehow.

The rest is up in the air.

Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 09 Oct 2014, 19:09
First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.

We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"

Right, but "they" being a plural word lacks personal connotation (in your example, the "they" could apply to either the dentist or the dentist's office as an organization), it's similar to using "one" instead of "I" or "you", and that's why I suggested it, because English lacks a non-gendered, 3rd person, personal descriptor.

English is mostly made of words "borrowed" words, I don't see why we shouldn't assimilate hän (him/her) and hänen (his/hers), I know they won't  be used in everyday conversation, but it could make it easier for inter gendered people to describe themselves, or when online when you're not sure about fellow forum members.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:11
Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)
I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 19:14
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:14
English is mostly made of words "borrowed" words, I don't see why we shouldn't assimilate hän (him/her) and hänen (his/hers), I know they won't  be used in everyday conversation, but it could make it easier for inter gendered people to describe themselves, or when online when you're not sure about fellow forum members.
There are a plethora of "third gender" pronouns that already enjoy some non-standard use in the English of queer circles, such as sie/hir, xie/xir, ey/em. hän could certainly join them, but would probably meet with the same degree of mainstream success. Meanwhile, "singular they" has seen some degree of adoption by news media as a gender-neutral option.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 19:16

Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.

Dum spiro, spero.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by schoolboys to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting  8-)

In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.


Also, Clairaten: Sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeee (first time I've ever said that, because "YES!!!" (fist pump) simply doesn't cut it)

Apparently here in Baltimore among the yout's a neuter pronoun developed, "yo." I use it sometimes but as a youth slang in a regional dialect it is of limited utility.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 09 Oct 2014, 19:18
Dora/Tai also are up in the air as well. Tai may be a Lesbian and probably LBGQT (or however it's acronymed....) aware/friendly, it's kinda hard to gauge if she does know or how she would react. Dora.......I dunno. She's gone wishy-washy with her relationships, and has made some SERIOUS blunders relationship wise, so I wouldn't put it past her to completely fuck up this situation somehow.

Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Mojo on 09 Oct 2014, 19:21
It occurs to me that Faye may be suspecting sexy shenanigans without knowing that Claire is trans... I wonder if that means anything...?

 :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:23
Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.

You would think that, but trans feminine and trans masculine crowds tend to have very different things going on, especially at a school like Smif, where (if it's like Smith College) one group (trans guys) are very accepted, and another (trans women) are viewed with open suspicion (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/opinion/sunday/who-are-womens-colleges-for.html). Tai could easily know half a dozen trans guys and not a single trans woman, and be completely ignorant to the issues particular to Claire's situation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: CUBErt on 09 Oct 2014, 19:26
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Jeph is going to make Pintsize the voice of reason entirely to fuck with us.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 19:27
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Pintsize likes his vulgarity to take effort. I think on this, he'll be (surprisingly: Marten would probably wonder if Pintsize got overwritten by a reasonable AI) good about this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 19:27

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.

We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"

While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 09 Oct 2014, 19:28
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

IIRC, pintsize has been...involved...with a male robot who he thought was female because he was pink.  Though he flipped out at the time, he seemed more upset that the dude cut off contact with him than it was a dude.  So I think he wouldn't tease Marten about it or anything.  He's pretty open minded. 

That said, I do expect some uncouth comment about wangs. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 09 Oct 2014, 19:29
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 19:30
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Pintsize has also shown surprising insight once or twice (here, I'm especially thinking of his conversation with Momo about the roles of Anthro PCs in their relationships with their companions). It'll be interesting to see which Pintsize shows up the next time he's around Claire and Marten as a couple.

Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.

You would think that, but trans feminine and trans masculine crowds tend to have very different things going on, especially at a school like Smif, where (if it's like Smith College) one group (trans guys) are very accepted, and another (trans women) are viewed with open suspicion (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/opinion/sunday/who-are-womens-colleges-for.html). Tai could easily know half a dozen trans guys and not a single trans woman, and be completely ignorant to the issues particular to Claire's situation.

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 19:33
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".
Personally, I think the shape of Pintsize's vulgarity on this will end up in the "too helpful" category. He'll just weird out Marten instead of being stupidly offensive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:33
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
TERFs tend to belong to an older generation, and operate in blatantly malicious ways. Tai and her friends are more likely to just be ignorant - they may not even know that their college's admissions polices effectively bar trans women from applying as undergraduates.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 19:35

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently

I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender. Albeit I hang out with a lot of sailors and Marines who are my legit ship and mess mates, but "mate" is a serious reach.


In other news I like Tai's response. You can heaaar the squeeing
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 19:37
[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 19:38
Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".

I agree that no one will say anything malicious, but as I've said earlier in the thread, it could bring up some of Dora's old insecurities. (there was a comic about her asking if Marten would be happier if she had a wang.) I agree that if anyone, it's be Marten's male friends that might raise an eyebrow. Again, a perfect opportunity for Marten to show some initiative and take a proper lead in the conversation.

Also, don't assume everyone from 4chan is a terrible person.   :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:38
I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender.

What am I demonstrating? I'm saying that I haven't seen "mate" used to refer to individual women in pop culture. If that's really how you talk in your vernacular, then obviously that's how it is for you, and whatever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 19:39
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".

The only guys I see being wild cards in that respect are Steve and Jimbo (at least as far as regular/semiregular characters go). As far as the female characters, there are more people whose reactions we can't be sure of, mostly because we see so little of them (Penelope and Cosette both come to mind), or Emily (not because Claire's trans -- Emily already knows and is cool with that), at least if she is/was interested in Marten.

TERFs tend to belong to an older generation, and operate in blatantly malicious ways. Tai and her friends are more likely to just be ignorant - they may not even know that their college's admissions polices effectively bar trans women from applying as undergraduates.

Did Claire do her undergrad there, though, or is she just doing her grad work there?


For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently

I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender. Albeit I hang out with a lot of sailors and Marines who are my legit ship and mess mates, but "mate" is a serious reach.


I'm not a linguist (just a garden-variety English major), but context matters. After all, you can refer to your spouse as your mate, but when you refer to, say, a BM3 as a mate, I don't think someone's going to mistake them for your spouse.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 19:41
[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

Wasn't aware that was a slur...? Which part of it, exactly, is inaccurate, much less offensive? I'm asking because I've honestly no idea.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 19:43
Usually not, but any and all of my friends are mates. Along with just about any one else.

Is TERF really a slur now? It's a description... Trans Exclusionary Feminist... Missing the R but whatever.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 19:43
[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs in use relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 09 Oct 2014, 19:43

I agree that no one will say anything malicious, but as I've said earlier in the thread, it could bring up some of Dora's old insecurities. (there was a comic about her asking if Marten would be happier if she had a wang.) I agree that if anyone, it's be Marten's male friends that might raise an eyebrow. Again, a perfect opportunity for Marten to show some initiative and take a proper lead in the conversation.

Also, don't assume everyone from 4chan is a terrible person.   :wink:

Damn I really hope Dora does not ask anything even remotely like that now. I'd be hella pissed.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:45
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

TERF is not a slur, it is an acronym for Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminist. It offends me (as a feminist) that TERFs call themselves feminists, since their actions and politics are openly transmisogynist, but like, members of hate groups don't get to petulantly demand that the people they oppress facilitate their rebranding efforts.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 19:46
[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.

The word gets thrown around so casually and used to silence legitimate disagreements. When it moves from being applied to scum like Cathy Brennan into being applied to anyone who argues that gender is a social construct it becomes a slur.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 09 Oct 2014, 19:50
While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.
Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 19:50
The word gets thrown around so casually and used to silence legitimate disagreements. When it moves from being applied to scum like Cathy Brennan into being applied to anyone who argues that gender is a social construct it becomes a slur.

TERF means a self-styled feminist who believes that trans women are not "really" women. That's it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: PLGRN8R on 09 Oct 2014, 19:51
I have resolved to re-read QC in its entirety.
Wish me luck, ladies, gents, and everything in between and/or variations thereof. I'll see you on the other side of the Feels Express.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 19:52
[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Well, that, and I don't tend to worry as much about the feelings of people who spend their time denigrating other people, as well as denying either their existence or right to exist (referring here to TERFs, not to valkygrrl, whose motives and alignment I don't known and so won't impugn).

ETA: I'm referring specifically to the likes of Cathy Brennan, valkygrrl. I don't disagree with the idea that gender is essentially a social construct; I disagree with dehumanizing people (to say nothing of the fact that their rhetoric and actions discredit feminism generally, to the point where I wonder if they were either influenced, or  invented, by the "Men's Rights" crowd).

I see it as an accurate description, and certainly wouldn't use it as a slur. However, with that being said, if my using the term offended you, please accept my apologies.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Emoroffle on 09 Oct 2014, 19:54
I'm with Tai on this one. Anyone else notice the look of utter mischief on Dora's face?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 09 Oct 2014, 19:54
Re: font changes
Jeph usually draws QC on his big ol cintiq which is a) connected to his Mac which has an assload of fonts and b) massively high resolution

He also has been experimenting with using a smaller tablet (not sure of the brand) that hooks up to some kind of other OS (I think windows) that doesn't have the same fonts

If you see a difference in typefaces it probably means he's on the road or using the tablet at a coffeeshop and doesn't have his usual fonts available.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 19:58
I have resolved to re-read QC in its entirety.
Wish me luck, ladies, gents, and everything in between and/or variations thereof. I'll see you on the other side of the Feels Express.
Ganbarekudasai!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Oct 2014, 20:01
There goes Tai, speaking for a large segment of the forum.  :-D

I just hope they don't vocally read too much into things the next time they see one of them. That could be awkward, given that this may be one of the first relationships in the QCverse that's actually taking things slow and easy (for the moment, anyway).

You're hoping for things not to be awkward?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 20:02
Wait, you're right. This could lead to hilarity. And also, awkward situations is this comic's bread and butter.

Let the hilarious misunderstandings commence!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 09 Oct 2014, 20:06
Why won't this 'ship sink?


Cause Claire boyant. :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 20:07
[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Well, that, and I don't tend to worry as much about the feelings of people who spend their time denigrating other people, as well as denying either their existence or right to exist (referring here to TERFs, not to valkygrrl, whose motives and alignment I don't known and so won't impugn).

ETA: I'm referring specifically to the likes of Cathy Brennan, valkygrrl. I don't disagree with the idea that gender is essentially a social construct; I disagree with dehumanizing people (to say nothing of the fact that their rhetoric and actions discredit feminism generally, to the point where I wonder if they were either influenced, or  invented, by the "Men's Rights" crowd).

I see it as an accurate description, and certainly wouldn't use it as a slur. However, with that being said, if my using the term offended you, please accept my apologies.

Fair enough, apologies for overreacting.  The word has been thrown at me before, it makes one touchy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 20:08

While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.
Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?

Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 09 Oct 2014, 20:10

While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.
Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?

Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 09 Oct 2014, 20:12
Faye probably assumes as much given recent events (Unless Jeph drops a bombshell......). How she is about transgendered folks is up in the air, seeing we can't assume from the facts that she has a Lesbian Sister (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=164) and works with a Boss that is in a Lesbian relationship. While she is front the south, she does mention that she hates the religious attitude of the place. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=625)   

I see Faye's stance as being 'if she makes you happy I'm happy for you', but I could absolutely see her saying something unintentionally hurtful if she found out. I don't think JJ would write that, but just how I see her. Subtlety and sensitivity not being her strong points.

Otherwise I don't see any problems in the primary cast.

I know he doesn't want to use Claire as a drama bomb, but I do have to admit if there were some drama I'd be interested to see how Marten reacted to it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 20:23


While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.
Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?

Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".

That doesn't change the state of play in formal American English, where they is a plural pronoun, and using it in reference to a singular antecedent will lose you grade points. The fact that this change has occurred in British English doesn't mean it will be accepted in the US, adopting a proper neuter pronoun would be ideal, yo.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 09 Oct 2014, 20:47


While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.
Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?

Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".

That doesn't change the state of play in formal American English, where they is a plural pronoun, and using it in reference to a singular antecedent will lose you grade points. The fact that this change has occurred in British English doesn't mean it will be accepted in the US, adopting a proper neuter pronoun would be ideal, yo.
I have used singular they in essays and not lost any points because of it. The simple fact is this: we won't adopt a new, gender neutral pronoun. There are too many proposals and no single regulatory body for English to enforce the change. What if MLA adopted xe/xir and APA adopted sie/hir, while the media used singular they? That's a massive amount of confusion and inconsistency that could easily be resolved by simply allowing the language to evolve naturally and adopting the most common usage. My point is that the language will probably not evolve to include an entirely new neuter pronoun. Though not common, singular they has been used for a long time (since Chaucer) as a gender neutral, singular pronoun, so I would expect that to be the direction our language goes in. On top of that, American exposure to British media is at the highest point it's ever been. Britishisms are entering American speech more and more, so I'd also expect the British usage to be adopted by America rather than have America invent a new pronoun.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 09 Oct 2014, 20:53
The simple fact is this: we won't adopt a new, gender neutral pronoun. There are too many proposals and no single regulatory body for English to enforce the change.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 09 Oct 2014, 20:54
The simple fact is this: we won't adopt a new, gender neutral pronoun. There are too many proposals and no single regulatory body for English to enforce the change.
(click to show/hide)
Which is precisely why I say we let the language evolve as we always have.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Oct 2014, 20:56
Perhaps this is more fanboy speak, but I expect anything Jeph might be planning for future awkward hilarity is going to be more subtle than intolerance from the core cast.

Just a feeling. Jeph hasn't treated Claire as a moral issue yet. The one time he came close was entirely natural and basically a throw away line aimed at demonstrating Clinton's over protective streak.

Maybe this has been a long, slow build up to an after school special moment. It just doesn't seem that way.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 09 Oct 2014, 21:02
Well, that disagreement already exists on many fronts in formal English, I'd still prefer to force everyone to use the Baltimore "yo" if only to give props to the clever kids who more or less accidentally evolved the language on their own. But I'm a proponent of "xe" generally speaking, and am completely biased in that direction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Oct 2014, 21:02
Wait, "yo" is a pronoun? I thought it was an informal greeting.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 09 Oct 2014, 21:06
Wait, "yo" is a pronoun? I thought it was an informal greeting.
It is an informal greeting in most of the country, except in Baltimore, where it is apparently a gender neutral pronoun. Personally, I want to know how that particular evolution of language happened and who allowed it, so we can punish them.

On a more serious note, I prefer to use singular they unless a person indicates they prefer a different pronoun.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Durmatagno on 09 Oct 2014, 21:07
I have resolved to re-read QC in its entirety.
Wish me luck, ladies, gents, and everything in between and/or variations thereof. I'll see you on the other side of the Feels Express.

I do this every couple of months when I have nothing else to do. Without a job, all I can do is study, and send out applications, so I have a lot of spare time. Nice to watch the art evolve though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Oct 2014, 21:44
Global Moderator Comment Thank you to everyone who's hitting the Report to Moderator button on rule-breaking posts. Thank you very much. You're helping head off flame wars, and by the way you're all showing good judgement about what's a rules violation and what's something you disagree with.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 21:49
Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)
I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.

We are talking about a woman who used to beat people for a living and was/possibly very active in the Fetish Community now. Plus given she knows people in some circles, (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831) I wouldn't put it past her to possibly "recognize" Transgendered folks and other "Alt-Sex" folks. She did this with Tai in a completely spontaneous and risky manner. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1822) Of course she does talk before thinking: she did this with Hanners. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1824)

I know he doesn't want to use Claire as a drama bomb, but I do have to admit if there were some drama I'd be interested to see how Marten reacted to it.

Veronica did note once Marten was into pushy women. So maybe he's a pushover. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=447)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Euthemes on 09 Oct 2014, 21:56
"They" is both gender- and number-neutral, like "on" in French.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 09 Oct 2014, 21:58
It occurs to me that Faye may be suspecting sexy shenanigans without knowing that Claire is trans... I wonder if that means anything...?

 :claireface:

It means she's expecting the next time she sees Marten, he'll be hiding hickies and grinning like an idiot  :-D (like most guys who've gotten laid...after going a long time without a meaningful relationship) and for Claire to walking bow-legged.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 09 Oct 2014, 21:58

I have a degree in formal linguistics and I am familiar enough with the process of language change to know that the scenario you describe - semantic leveling from marked masculine terms to unmarked neuter terms - does not happen in reverse. That is, pairs like "actor"/"actress" level towards the masculine "actor", but feminine words like "stewardess" are never extended to include males, they are replaced with terms like "flight attendant". I recommend Deborah Tannen's essay, "Marked Woman, Unmarked Man (http://faculty.georgetown.edu/tannend/nyt062093.htm)" for an introduction to this topic.

That is not entirely true. The Danish "sygeplejerske", nurse, now may be a man or a woman. Probably because "sygeplejer", without the female -ske ending, used to be a distinct job title, requireing much less education.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 09 Oct 2014, 22:11
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".

Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 22:21
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?
Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 22:22
Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)
I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.

We are talking about a woman who used to beat people for a living and was/possibly very active in the Fetish Community now. Plus given she knows people in some circles, (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831) I wouldn't put it past her to possibly "recognize" Transgendered folks and other "Alt-Sex" folks. She did this with Tai in a completely spontaneous and risky manner. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1822) Of course she does talk before thinking: she did this with Hanners. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1824)

I know he doesn't want to use Claire as a drama bomb, but I do have to admit if there were some drama I'd be interested to see how Marten reacted to it.

Veronica did note once Marten was into pushy women. So maybe he's a pushover. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=447)
Doesn't mean Martenmom would recognize Claire as being a trans woman. Tai lives her alt status. It's her style. Claire is very clean cut and "feminine" for lack of a better term. Trans women and men don't look like anything in particular, besides women and men, and fucking hell even keeping the gender binary in place have you seen how many varieties we come in?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 22:24
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?
Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
All remnants of monarchy including speech patterns will improve humanity drastically by being purged from it utterly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 09 Oct 2014, 22:28
I wanna know what Dora told Tai. I mean, if she said what Faye said, Tai's just hearing second-hand news about something that maybe happened, and the response doesn't go with that.
I bet it was something quick, like "omg marten+claire <3" since the comic seems to indicate this conversation, text, and reply happened really fast, so it had to be a short message to type out.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 22:28
We are talking about a woman who used to beat people for a living and was/possibly very active in the Fetish Community now.

Right exactly. The kink community is incredibly scrupulous about establishing consent, so that people can play with risky things in a safe space and explore "consensual non-consent" within explicitly negotiated parameters. Veronica is a professional domme, not a professional rapist.

Quote
She did this with Tai in a completely spontaneous and risky manner.

Brash but not risky - nobody but her, Tai and Marten were around to hear that interaction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Oct 2014, 22:31
"consensual nom-consent"

This may be my favorite typo ever.  :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 09 Oct 2014, 22:37
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?
Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.

He does not. She distinguishes "we" and "us". Which has nothing to do with number, but it still a distinction not made in the second person.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 09 Oct 2014, 22:37
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?
Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
She doesn't often. Residents of Yorkshire, on the other hand...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 09 Oct 2014, 22:43
Jeph is going to make Pintsize the voice of reason entirely to fuck with us.
In any case, Pintsize wouldn't be more of an ass about it than he is about literally everything else.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 22:46
In any case, Pintsize wouldn't be more of an ass about it than he is about literally everything else.

It's Pintsize talking about asses that has me worried.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 22:52
I bet it was something quick, like "omg marten+claire <3" since the comic seems to indicate this conversation, text, and reply happened really fast, so it had to be a short message to type out.

Fair note, much like any story, time is "Lubriciously Slow" in the QC universe. I think it's been like what, 2 years time wise since the begining?

Trans women and men don't look like anything in particular, besides women and men, and fucking hell even keeping the gender binary in place have you seen how many varieties we come in?

Honestly, who thought it was a good idea to "sublet" the genders even more confusingly?

It's Pintsize talking about asses that has me worried.

He'll play a song. Question is: Sir Mix-Alot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlItMpGYQTo) or Nikki Minaj? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 09 Oct 2014, 22:55
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?
Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
All remnants of monarchy including speech patterns will improve humanity drastically by being purged from it utterly.
Wasn't it Diderot who said the day we know true freedom is the day that the last king is hanged by the entrails of the last priest?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 09 Oct 2014, 22:56
Quit talking dirty to me Hedgie.





...in public any way
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 09 Oct 2014, 22:58
Fair note, much like any story, time is "Ludicriously Slow" in the QC universe. I think it's been like what, 2 years time wise since the begging?
At most! It's been summer vacation since #1978!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 23:03
It was a funny strip. I can totally see the CoD ladies being basically a gossip circle.

Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex. Marten will probably just say Claire has issues so they're going slow. The ladies, out of a desire to help, will be nosey and possibly guess some aspect of Claire's situation. My feeling is that they would be generally supportive, although I wouldn't be surprised if Faye was tactless at times (because she's Faye). Dora and Tai have probably faced discrimination at times; they would probably sympathise with her.

That said, I've long suspected Tai was a hopeless romantic!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackbird on 09 Oct 2014, 23:03
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

As others have pointed out, Pintsize did once "exchange data packets" with a male AnthroPC that looked female.  He's not likely to say anything derogatory in that regard.  I think his vulgar humour will come out in the crass "so whose dick is bigger?" sort of way.  [Preemptive note to help the mods: DO NOT discuss this question. :) ]

I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 09 Oct 2014, 23:07
He'll play a song. Question is: Sir Mix-Alot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlItMpGYQTo) or Nikki Minaj? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs)

I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 09 Oct 2014, 23:17
I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.

May strikes me as an 'out and proud'-type personality; she probably wouldn't understand why Claire didn't rub her status in others' faces just to annoy them. Her impulse control problems would be the big issue but she's also so new that she'd be one of the last to know. 

No, if anyone causes trouble, it will be someone unexpected acting thoughtlessly and/or out of the belief that they are 'protecting' or 'helping' Marten or Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 09 Oct 2014, 23:18
He'll play a song. Question is: Sir Mix-Alot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlItMpGYQTo) or Nikki Minaj? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs)

I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?

almost offered you ponponpon but after viewing the Nikki Minaj link you've suffered enough.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 09 Oct 2014, 23:19
I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?
Like with TVTropes, there's an art to not clicking bad youtube links.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 09 Oct 2014, 23:22
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?
No, it means you've reached the next level.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Oct 2014, 23:24
I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?

Not my fault, you're on your own buddy.

I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.

She did comment that her Hologram form was like....well...... (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2497)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 09 Oct 2014, 23:30
Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex.
Entirely independent of the fact that Claire is trans, she doesn't seem like the type to jump into bed with someone immediately, anyway. She seems more apt to take it slow and be sure that she wants to be with someone before sexy times start.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 09 Oct 2014, 23:33
Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex.
Entirely independent of the fact that Claire is trans, she doesn't seem like the type to jump into bed with someone immediately, anyway. She seems more apt to take it slow and be sure that she wants to be with someone before sexy times start.

Besides, how is it any of their friends' business when (or how) they have sex? They'll ask, sure, but they have no right to expect an honest answer.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 09 Oct 2014, 23:34
So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?
(http://oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/Vac%20Wings%20VW483%20SB2U.JPG)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 09 Oct 2014, 23:34
Y'know, sometimes it really jars and annoys me when Jeph writes strips that reference the forums instead of keeping things realistic within the QC-verse.  This is one of those.

I was looking forward to hearing Tai's reaction to this--I thought it would be something funny and absurd and just the sort of thing that Tai and only Tai would say.  Instead, she says something that nobody would say in real life about their friends, something that doesn't sound at all natural in context.  It breaks the flow of the story, and one of the things I love so much about QC is the way it flows, the comic (and sometimes dramatic) timing that always works so well.

Meh.  I don't usually post to grumble, but I kinda feel like I was just jolted out of a story I was super absorbed in and back into the drab reality of sitting in a chair looking at some pixels on a screen.

Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex. Marten will probably just say Claire has issues so they're going slow. The ladies, out of a desire to help, will be nosey and possibly guess some aspect of Claire's situation. My feeling is that they would be generally supportive, although I wouldn't be surprised if Faye was tactless at times (because she's Faye). Dora and Tai have probably faced discrimination at times; they would probably sympathise with her.

Remember, though, Dora took things slow with Tai too.  And while she and Faye discussed it a little, nobody made any kind of a thing about it or suspected that there were any secret reasons.

Claire is obviously shy and inexperienced.  That right there is a clear reason for taking things slow--no need to say she has "issues" to justify their not doin' it on the first date.  Hell, lots of us who aren't shy and inexperienced don't like to rush sex in a new relationship.

By the way, I really, really hope that at some point we get to see Claire do a booty dance.

Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?
No, it means you've reached the next level.

That's... what I really wanted to say earlier, but you phrased it so much better than I did.  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: admiral-bell on 09 Oct 2014, 23:42
Y'know, sometimes it really jars and annoys me when Jeph writes strips that reference the forums instead of keeping things realistic within the QC-verse.  This is one of those.

I was looking forward to hearing Tai's reaction to this--I thought it would be something funny and absurd and just the sort of thing that Tai and only Tai would say.  Instead, she says something that nobody would say in real life about their friends, something that doesn't sound at all natural in context.  It breaks the flow of the story, and one of the things I love so much about QC is the way it flows, the comic (and sometimes dramatic) timing that always works so well.

Meh.  I don't usually post to grumble, but I kinda feel like I was just jolted out of a story I was super absorbed in and back into the drab reality of sitting in a chair looking at some pixels on a screen.

But Tai writes slashfics in her spare time. It seems perfectly in character to me.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 23:46
It was a funny strip. I can totally see the CoD ladies being basically a gossip circle.

Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex. Marten will probably just say Claire has issues so they're going slow. The ladies, out of a desire to help, will be nosey and possibly guess some aspect of Claire's situation. My feeling is that they would be generally supportive, although I wouldn't be surprised if Faye was tactless at times (because she's Faye). Dora and Tai have probably faced discrimination at times; they would probably sympathise with her.

That said, I've long suspected Tai was a hopeless romantic!
Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 09 Oct 2014, 23:49
Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)
Marten's body language in panel two is perfect
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 09 Oct 2014, 23:51
Somehow, I think we all knew that Tai would react like this.  I think she reads the forums.  She is the QC version of Deadpool, i.e. fully aware that she's a comic character.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Oct 2014, 23:57
Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)
Marten's body language in panel two is perfect
There's more Tai-is-a-romantic where that came from. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2481)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 10 Oct 2014, 00:24
But Tai writes slashfics in her spare time. It seems perfectly in character to me.
Hmm.  That's a good point.  Still feels weird to me, but you've at least given me something to help me suspend my disbelief.  Thanks!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ankhtahr on 10 Oct 2014, 00:27
Well, to be more precise, she writes slashfic exploring each pairing of Marten and the interns. She writes a lot of fanfic, spends some of her spare time with Harry Potter Flash LARP, so I'd say she's quite deeply seated in fandom. Using the word "ship" doesn't seem out of character at all.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 10 Oct 2014, 00:36
Fair enough, apologies for overreacting.  The word has been thrown at me before, it makes one touchy.

Valkygrrl - if you don't want me to use it here, I won't.

Why? Because I'm a Feminist, but not Radical, certainly not Trans Exclusionary. If someone is Gender Critical (I'm more Gender Sceptical) and has been lumped in with those they don't want to be associated with - if they get hurt by the term - then the same rule applies as for all minorities when they object to someone not of that minority using a term they see as hateful.

You don't give excuses -
"But it was a term they invented to describe themselves!"
"But it just means Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist"
- no matter how true.

You listen to them. You treat them with respect. You stop using it. Period.

Valygrrl, you and I disagree on this area, maybe less than it appears as I'm Gender Sceptical, a difference of degree rather than kind, but enough so that I feel we see each other in opposite camps.

Gender Critical Feminism is a minority, a subset of Feminism, just as Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists are a subset of them, and the truly nasty people like CB a further subset of them. You, a Gender Critical Feminist, are in a minority here, and in the world at large. I'm not a member of that minority.

When a member of a minority I don't belong to tells me a term that has (however inaccurately) been applied to them is offensive... then the justifications, the excuses, however true they may be, do not matter. What matters is that if I use that term, I am hurting someone.

I have many grievous faults. I do try *really hard* though not to be a hypocrite. And apart from that, hurting you would be unjust and very wrong, you don't deserve it. Oh, I'll disagree stridently, but intentionally hurt you? That would be hurting myself.

No apologies necessary. I'm sorry you were hurt. It's your call, not mine, as to whether I use this term in future, bearing in mind I'd never use it to refer to someone like you, no matter how far apart we may be. That's just... trying to be a Decent Human Being.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 10 Oct 2014, 00:40
Devo's new single.

And totally in character for Tai.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 10 Oct 2014, 00:46
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

I'm not sure where you're from, but in British English "mate" is very strongly gendered. Most people would not call a woman "mate" here.

So am I and I call everyone mate, as do all the people I know of all genders. My girlfriend's best friend is trans and she refers to him as her 'best mate' (said friend goes with male pronouns in fairness).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 10 Oct 2014, 01:00
Fair enough, apologies for overreacting.  The word has been thrown at me before, it makes one touchy.

Valkygrrl - if you don't want me to use it here, I won't.

Why? Because I'm a Feminist, but not Radical, certainly not Trans Exclusionary. If someone is Gender Critical (I'm more Gender Sceptical) and has been lumped in with those they don't want to be associated with - if they get hurt by the term - then the same rule applies as for all minorities when they object to someone not of that minority using a term they see as hateful.

You don't give excuses -
"But it was a term they invented to describe themselves!"
"But it just means Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist"
- no matter how true.

You listen to them. You treat them with respect. You stop using it. Period.

Valygrrl, you and I disagree on this area, maybe less than it appears as I'm Gender Sceptical, a difference of degree rather than kind, but enough so that I feel we see each other in opposite camps.

Gender Critical Feminism is a minority, a subset of Feminism, just as Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists are a subset of them, and the truly nasty people like CB a further subset of them. You, a Gender Critical Feminist, are in a minority here, and in the world at large. I'm not a member of that minority.

When a member of a minority I don't belong to tells me a term that has (however inaccurately) been applied to them is offensive... then the justifications, the excuses, however true they may be, do not matter. What matters is that if I use that term, I am hurting someone.

I have many grievous faults. I do try *really hard* though not to be a hypocrite. And apart from that, hurting you would be unjust and very wrong, you don't deserve it. Oh, I'll disagree stridently, but intentionally hurt you? That would be hurting myself.

No apologies necessary. I'm sorry you were hurt. It's your call, not mine, as to whether I use this term in future, bearing in mind I'd never use it to refer to someone like you, no matter how far apart we may be. That's just... trying to be a Decent Human Being.

Not lumping people in with those they don't want to be associated with is the best thing you could have said here, A+.

Different camps? Absolutely. Opposing? Some of the time, probably most of the time certainly.  It is a political difference not a personal one. Cathy and Gallus are  loathesome, they speak out of animus. Neither of us plans that. And if anything heated simply must be said there's an open invitation to take it to private message. I'll answer. You might even find some of my positions surprising even if no less odious given the ones you appear to hold.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 01:20
Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)
Marten's body language in panel two is perfect

There's more Tai-is-a-romantic where that came from. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2481)

Something tells me that Claire and Tai being sisters-in-all-but-blood when it comes to romance can only make things... interesting for Marten. Interesting in the Chinese sense. :-o
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 10 Oct 2014, 01:25
Just my linguistic five cents here, but I'm British, I'm female, and literally everyone I know uses 'mate' non-gender-specifically. It is associated with 'lad' culture, but it is not exclusive to men. I have even heard it on the news before, referring to a 'girl and her mates' (reason I remember it was because it seemed like a remarkably informal thing to say on the news). It is not gender-specific, really.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 10 Oct 2014, 01:31
One thing to note is that this environment is leaning towards en-US, although because of the nature of the Internet, it's more a generic en, and it's best to strive for terminology that's not offensive to speakers of any English dialect or sub-dialect in use on here. It's clear that in some regions, "mate" is gendered, even if in others, it isn't, so it's probably best to not use it in contexts where it being gendered causes problems.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 01:36
It's best not to mate on the forum, in other words?  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 10 Oct 2014, 01:37
It's bet not to mate on the forum, in other words?  :claireface:

Why? Have you had an offer?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 01:49
Argh! That's "best", of course.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 01:53
It's bet not to mate on the forum, in other words?  :claireface:

Why? Have you had an offer?

Not on this forum, no. I have been on forums where such invitations were quite commonplace, though.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 10 Oct 2014, 01:55
Well, that particular form of mate isn't gendered in any dialect, so I wouldn't have any qualms about using it.

However, well... mating on the forums (at least in the CHATTER subforum, and I'd expect that that would extend to the other subforums) is frowned on: http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28905.0.html
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 10 Oct 2014, 02:00
I think it's perfectly in character for Tai to say that, especially to Dora (probably knowing Faye will see it too).

I don't think Claire has told many people other than Marten and Emily, and they haven't exactly gone around blabbing about it. That'll be an interesting couple of strips, if Jeph even mentions it. He's previously stated, repeatedly, that that part of Claire's life won't be mined for drama, so I think it may well be an unmentioned off-strip conversation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 02:08
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:

They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other. The next strip is just a single panel of Marten and Claire, spooned up in bed together (a bit like Angus and Faye a few strips back) with blissful smiles on their faces. The strip after that is Faye coming into CoD with huge bags under her eyes; she tells a worried Dora that she is into love and its free expression but not when the lovers in question are loud about it for three damn hours!

"Yeah, our Marty has stamina when he's inspired," is Dora's enigmatic reply.

The point is that we never hear about the mechanics and it is never an issue. All we see and all that we need to know is that they've made love and that the experience was fulfilling for them both.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TinPenguin on 10 Oct 2014, 02:41
I agree, but it's unlikely we'll even see as much as that. Post-coital-snuggles, perhaps; the rest, not so much.

If Jeph has any class at all (spoiler, he has fucking lots of it), the genital-speculators will never have any kind of closure. Taking every other relationship in QC as example, at some point it'll be made clear - to both audience and fellow cast - that they are sleeping together, and that'll be that. Cis people are private enough about their sex-life (unless they are Dora (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1669)), so just consider how much more closed the door is for trans people. That door is bolted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Oct 2014, 03:13
Marten has told both Dora's father and Tai that Dora gave him blowjobs. Handjobs too, in the case of Dora's father.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 03:20
But neither fact says anything about Dora's genitals, I might add.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Oct 2014, 03:24
But neither fact says anything about Dora's genitals, I might add.

"Your daughter has had my penis in her mouth" does she something about Marten's, though. And it reveals details of their sex life.

This does not mean that anything will revealed about Claire and Marten's sex life, obviously.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 03:57
Indeed! My point is that while Marten might talk about his own junk, I doubt he'd say anything about anyone else's.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 10 Oct 2014, 04:03
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:

They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other. The next strip is just a single panel of Marten and Claire, spooned up in bed together (a bit like Angus and Faye a few strips back) with blissful smiles on their faces. The strip after that is Faye coming into CoD with huge bags under her eyes; she tells a worried Dora that she is into love and its free expression but not when the lovers in question are loud about it for three damn hours!

"Yeah, our Marty has stamina when he's inspired," is Dora's enigmatic reply.

The point is that we never hear about the mechanics and it is never an issue. All we see and all that we need to know is that they've made love and that the experience was fulfilling for them both.

This would be good.

And pretty much in line with any other sex information we have about anyone else (pretty sure the most we know about is Sven given we know what position he was doing it in).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Freelance_Physicist on 10 Oct 2014, 04:14
This seemed apropos.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Oct 2014, 04:14
Going back to the ages thing, I'm pretty sure Dora said she was 28 when she went on her date with Jim, and 26 right before she started dating Marten, so assuming not much time has passed since the Jim date, so it was about two years from the beginning of the comic to that, and maybe what, a few months since then?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 10 Oct 2014, 04:43
Going back to the ages thing, I'm pretty sure Dora said she was 28 when she went on her date with Jim, and 26 right before she started dating Marten, so assuming not much time has passed since the Jim date, so it was about two years from the beginning of the comic to that, and maybe what, a few months since then?
To be precise, in 1954 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1954) Jim states that he's 41 and Dora denies having turned 30. Then in 1958 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1958) Jim says that Sam is 13, and Dora then proceeds to the conclusion that Jim must have had her when he was Dora's current age, i.e. 28. And this was before the trip to space and the summer interns appeared, so at least a few months have gone by since.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: marbledmurrelet on 10 Oct 2014, 05:20
Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening? I'm not too surprised about not having noticed (until it was mentioned a few pages ago) that Smif is an all-girl college, but I've always been fascinated by anything beyond the hetero-cis-normative, so I'd typically remember such things. Heh.

Regarding Claire and Marten, I'd find it unrealistic if everything went just fine and everyone was just cool with Claire being trans (IF that would become known at all, it sure doesn't have to). And VERY unrealistic if Pintsize wouldn't raise the Forbidden Question, seeing as genitals are pretty much his favourite thing and possibly his main occupation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 10 Oct 2014, 05:24
Pintsize isn't exactly a role model. He may well say something crass, but my money is still on him attempting to be too helpful, because that's more likely to break Marten's brain. Little fucker likes mayhem, not curt dismissal.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 10 Oct 2014, 05:28
But neither fact says anything about Dora's genitals, I might add.

I WILL NOT GROW A PENIS FOR YOU!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1300)

Come ON, Marten, get in here and stick your cock in me already! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1669)

And there was one strip where Faye mocked Dora's biological clock, and Dora mentioned her discomfort with her uterus soon after..... (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1672)

Indeed! My point is that while Marten might talk about his own junk, I doubt he'd say anything about anyone else's.

"Please keep maintaining Dora Bianchi International Airport!!" (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1507)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 05:32
That doesn't count - they were already talking about that area, and they weren't really talking about her genitalia, per se.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Akima on 10 Oct 2014, 05:34
Speaking as an Australian, "mate" is actually still very largely bloke-speak, and rarely applied to women at all. Women *do* use the word, but much less often, and generally only when speaking to men. The use of "mate" is also very much more social-class-stratified among women than men. Personally, I only use the word ironically, towards men who are definitely not mates, but I'm possibly not a good example, because English is my second language. The genderless use of "guys", by contrast, is extremely common here, by men and women alike. On the whole, however, I would not regard Australian vernacular as a good yardstick. Ours is a language in which calling someone a "bastard" can be a friendly greeting, or earn you a broken nose, depending on who you're talking to, but that too is mostly bloke-speak.N.B. This recording is old. Australia has had its own national anthem since 1984.

And I can totally imagine Tai using "ship" to express approval of a pairing, especially when texting.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 10 Oct 2014, 05:37
Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening?
1302? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 10 Oct 2014, 05:38
That doesn't count - they were already talking about that area, and they weren't really talking about her genitalia, per se.

"I WILL NOT GROW A PENIS" doesn't count? You cray.

Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening?
1302? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302)

I thought it was in relation to the subject of Breast Binding, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_binding) not Shibari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_bondage) given the context of the hot topic debate right now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 05:39
If the Marten x Claire thing lasts, an interesting future plot arc might be her moving into Marten's apartment. Naturally, Mrs A will become a regular visitor, at least for a short time, worrying endlessly about how Claire is fitting in.

Faye was basically okay with being a third wheel when it was Dora but I'm wondering if she might feel that the circumstances have changed. Not only is she now in a fairly committed relationship with Angus (and I can see him proposing marriage in the not-to-distant future as a way of verifying his commitment to her despite career requirements). Additionally, Faye might consider Marten to be more invested in Claire than he was with Dora. If they are too openly emotionally intimate (and not in the silly, sophomorically crude way Marten and Dora could be), she might feel too much like the badly-fitting third wheel.

The conversation between Faye and Claire when she tells the other woman that she no longer feels at home at the apartment and is moving in with Angus could be quite emotionally charged, especially if Claire is worried that Marten may blame her for driving off his best female friend. I could see Faye concluding with something along the lines of: "He's yours to look after now, Red. He's a great guy and I think you'll do the job but if you don't...? Well, then I'll come back to snap your arms and legs."

Pintsize isn't exactly a role model. He may well say something crass, but my money is still on him attempting to be too helpful, because that's more likely to break Marten's brain. Little fucker likes mayhem, not curt dismissal.

Yes, if there is anyone likely to break a politeness taboo and openly discuss issues, it's Pintsize. That said, there is this bipolar nature to his personality. He seems to like saying crude and embarrassing things but, based on what he has said to Momo when they are in private, he takes his role as Marten's AI companion very seriously and I can't see him deliberately offending his friend and his significant others.

My guess about Pintsize is that he determined, via a complexity algorithm, that crude, offensive humour was the only thing that got under Marten's skin enough to drive him to exit his passive 'let someone else take the lead' comfort zone. My guess is that he might actually be quite nice to Claire in his unique way - by treating her as a female sex object the way he does all the other ladies.


[edit]
A couple of typos spotted and fixed
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Lubricus on 10 Oct 2014, 05:41
That doesn't count - they were already talking about that area, and they weren't really talking about her genitalia, per se.

"I WILL NOT GROW A PENIS" doesn't count? You cray.

Ah, I'd forgotten that. But still, it wasn't Marten that started talking about it, and Dora isn't exactly prudent about the subject at hand.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 10 Oct 2014, 05:43
Also, you (cesariojpn) didn't have that example in your post when Lubricus replied, I believe.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hakko504 on 10 Oct 2014, 05:48

Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening?
1302? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302)

I thought it was in relation to the subject of Breast Binding, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_binding) not Shibari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_bondage) given the context of the hot topic debate right now.
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974) Or check the strip by strip description in the wiki (http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_strip_by_strip)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 10 Oct 2014, 05:50
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974)

I think thats the one in relation to the topic at hand right now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 05:52
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974) Or check the strip by strip description in the wiki (http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_strip_by_strip)

It never ceases to amaze me how Marten used to be so responsive - By that I mean he always let others dictate the tone and level of a conversation.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 10 Oct 2014, 06:39
I agree, but it's unlikely we'll even see as much as that. Post-coital-snuggles, perhaps; the rest, not so much.

If Jeph has any class at all (spoiler, he has fucking lots of it), the genital-speculators will never have any kind of closure. Taking every other relationship in QC as example, at some point it'll be made clear - to both audience and fellow cast - that they are sleeping together, and that'll be that. Cis people are private enough about their sex-life (unless they are Dora (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1669)), so just consider how much more closed the door is for trans people. That door is bolted.

Tai took Marten with her to get her clit pierced too, so it's not like cis junk hasn't been broached already in the comic. 

Pintsize isn't exactly a role model. He may well say something crass, but my money is still on him attempting to be too helpful, because that's more likely to break Marten's brain. Little fucker likes mayhem, not curt dismissal.

Yeah.  I could see Pintsize presenting Marten with a pair of matching cockrings.  While raising one of his non-existent eyebrows. 

Then, Marten gets mad, and Pintsize asks if he picked up the wrong size and should exchange them. 

Faye was basically okay with being a third wheel when it was Dora but I'm wondering if she might feel that the circumstances have changed. Not only is she now in a fairly committed relationship with Angus (and I can see him proposing marriage in the not-to-distant future as a way of verifying his commitment to her despite career requirements).

At maximum, Angus and Faye have been dating 4-6 months in QC time.  Certainly not a year yet.  I don't think a marriage proposal is in the cards. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 10 Oct 2014, 06:47
I don't think it's awkward, I think it does and will represent growth of the characters (and to some extent, the storyteller and his audience).  Things that are funny when you're ignorant of the pain they cause cease to be funny when light is let into the darkness of your ignorance.

I think using the fact that various male and female genitalia have been referred to in the past as a reason/excuse/mandate to refer to them now is silly and backward, and as the rule is patiently and consistently applied, people will realize that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: shrike1978 on 10 Oct 2014, 06:55
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Jeph is going to make Pintsize the voice of reason entirely to fuck with us.

I think we need to remember that robot gender and sexuality is literally just a switch in the software.  That's been established in cannon.  Pintsize will understand this on a personal level better than any of the human characters could.  He'll be vulgar about it, but it won't be because of the trans thing...he'll be vulgar because he's Pintsize and that the only way he knows to be.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 10 Oct 2014, 06:55
I don't think it's awkward, I think it does and will represent growth of the characters (and to some extent, the storyteller and his audience).  Things that are funny when you're ignorant of the pain they cause cease to be funny when light is let into the darkness of your ignorance.

I think using the fact that various male and female genitalia have been referred to in the past as a reason/excuse/mandate to refer to them now is silly and backward, and as the rule is patiently and consistently applied, people will realize that.

The best humor is always transgressive (no pun intended) to some degree.  That's not to say that all transgresssion is well-executed, and that much of it can't be simply mean spirited/bigoted in the modern era.  But there is a lot of excellent art which has not just incidentally, but purposefully tried to outrage people.  The world is better for it existing. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thedrd0nna on 10 Oct 2014, 07:00
I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.
Moderate quibble here, but Body Dysmorphic Disorder and Gender Dysphoria are two entirely separate phenomena, both in terms of what they are and how they're treated. I point this out mainly because people tend to conflate the two in a way that implies that all trans people need is therapy-although I'm not saying that's what you're doing here. Context!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 10 Oct 2014, 07:08
Let's not forget that there's a difference between the characters talking about private matters in character, where they're amongst friends, and readers speculating about private things of people who are essentially strangers.
After reading the comic for a while, one may consider the characters as friends, even family. But we're not part of their life. And we should be glad they aren't aware of our existence.

[..] it's best to strive for terminology that's not offensive to speakers of any English dialect or sub-dialect in use on here.
In other words, you think that we should use a dictionary that's even more terse than simple.wikipedia.org?

Trying to respect sensitivities is one thing, but respecting the sum of all sensitivities in existence may be impossible.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 10 Oct 2014, 07:08
I WILL NOT GROW A PENIS FOR YOU!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1300)

Well, this is awkward.

Why? I say that to all my boyfriends preemptively.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 10 Oct 2014, 07:16
At maximum, Angus and Faye have been dating 4-6 months in QC time.  Certainly not a year yet.  I don't think a marriage proposal is in the cards.

I wouldn't put it past him. Don't know if she would accept......but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 10 Oct 2014, 07:18
If Jeph has any class at all (spoiler, he has fucking lots of it), the genital-speculators will never have any kind of closure.
I'd be astonished if he handled the issue any other way. Any more than he'd be revealing about any other character's anatomy, Sam's for example. If you wouldn't ask a question about her body, don't ask it about Claire's. Even if you have a great curiousity about the exact changes that usually happen at puberty, Tanner stages, and how far they are along with her.

Moreover, if even mentioning that subject makes you queasy, really uncomfy, and feeling it should be out of bounds for decency's sake, you will understand how some of us feel about the issue with Claire and Marten. The mods for example. Me, too. Sam's only a child for goodness sake. Claire's only a young woman, whose road has been harder than most. Leave them in peace. To do otherwise would be distinctly creepy, and not in a good way.

Now back to this week's megadose of squee, and pancakes. The happy stuff, the things that make life a joy, if taken in moderation. I'm sure Clinton will be a great moderator when he gets a clue, though Clairmom might have a few words to say to him about that... Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 10 Oct 2014, 07:32
Zoe is, as usual 100% correct, especially about the end of QC predictions if Marten marries Claire and opens a music store or something. Marten might get the short end, but the comic hasn't had him as permanent butt monkey for a very Long time now and hardly depends on that.to continue.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 10 Oct 2014, 07:33
I'd be astonished if he handled the issue any other way. Any more than he'd be revealing about any other character's anatomy, Sam's for example. If you wouldn't ask a question about her body, don't ask it about Claire's. Even if you have a great curiousity about the exact changes that usually happen at puberty, Tanner stages, and how far they are along with her.

Moreover, if even mentioning that subject makes you queasy, really uncomfy, and feeling it should be out of bounds for decency's sake, you will understand how some of us feel about the issue with Claire and Marten. The mods for example. Me, too. Sam's only a child for goodness sake. Claire's only a young woman, whose road has been harder than most. Leave them in peace. To do otherwise would be distinctly creepy, and not in a good way.

Now back to this week's megadose of squee, and pancakes. The happy stuff, the things that make life a joy, if taken in moderation. I'm sure Clinton will be a great moderator when he gets a clue, though Clairmom might have a few words to say to him about that... Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.

I'll be the first to say I don't care one way or another.  But people seemed to be intimating that *any* discussion of sex involving Claire and Marten will be forever off the table due to the realms of people's sensitivity.  I just don't understand this.  People bring up sex with some graphic detail fairly frequently in the comic.  For example, Steve's TMI from 2011 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1863).  Or Tai in 2012 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2257).

This comic is not rated PG.  The main characters are all adults, and the humans (except for Hannelore) all seem to have sex lives, even if some are currently unattached.  Sex is a normal topic of discussion among adults. 

Now, Marten isn't a person who likes to kiss and tell.  And Claire is not that sexually open of a person at this time.  So it would be out of character for them personally to ever make any comments about their goings on.  But I fully expect that some people in their circle will not be so circumspect, and will either joke or make (what they see as) innocent comments. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 10 Oct 2014, 07:36
Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.
QC cannot end yet. The final pages (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1193) have been written (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1453) and confirmed (http://jephjacques.com/post/64069511359/qa-time-once-again). It cannot end until hanners, claire and sam are ready. We're safe for now.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 07:40
Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.

QC cannot end yet. The final pages (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1193) have been written (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1453) and confirmed (http://jephjacques.com/post/64069511359/qa-time-once-again). It cannot end until hanners, claire and sam are ready. We're safe for now.

Something tells me that Jeph has a suitably reflexive sense of horror towards the extreme end of his fandom.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Oct 2014, 07:46
But people seemed to be intimating that *any* discussion of sex involving Claire and Marten will be forever off the table due to the realms of people's sensitivity.  I just don't understand this.  People bring up sex with some graphic detail fairly frequently in the comic.

Talking about what has actually been presented in the comic is one thing; talking about things that the comic has clearly not spoken of is quite another, falling into the realm of speculation, some kinds of which we forbid absolutely.  These are the rules as maintained by the mods following their understanding of Jeph's wishes.  Trying to argue against the rules is liable to lead to a bad end.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 10 Oct 2014, 07:51
Quote
This comic is not rated PG.  The main characters are all adults, and the humans (except for Hannelore) all seem to have sex lives, even if some are currently unattached.  Sex is a normal topic of discussion among adults.

I agree totally, as it happens.  I just think that where trans person issues are concerned, it's damnably difficult to have those discussions in a way that doesn't offend/hurt people.  Sex may be a universal, but if you're not a trans person, you can put everything you know and understand about their lives in a gnat's navel with room for two caraway seeds and an agent's heart.  Opting on the side of least harm is a good thing, yeah?

(with apologies to Fred Allen for mangling his quote)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 10 Oct 2014, 07:55
I think using the fact that various male and female genitalia have been referred to in the past as a reason/excuse/mandate to refer to them now is silly and backward, and as the rule is patiently and consistently applied, people will realize that.

It matters cause people say we can't talk about it, yet here we have examples of it being made. Ya can't put the genie back into the bottle once ya open it.....

I'll be the first to say I don't care one way or another.  But people seemed to be intimating that *any* discussion of sex involving Claire and Marten will be forever off the table due to the realms of people's sensitivity.  I just don't understand this.  People bring up sex with some graphic detail fairly frequently in the comic.

It's just.....complicated when it comes to sex, even when it's not about Transgender Sex. I know, I would LOVE to dissect and list examples, but any rational discussion would somehow offend someone because I broached a taboo subject or "gave a very bad example" or hell, i'd squick out people.

One thing I can say without ridiculous impunity is that when it comes to Sex in America, much talk is always on the fence between freedom of speech and "DON'T SAY THAT!!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Oct 2014, 07:56
Sex is a normal topic of discussion among adults.

I agree totally, as it happens.

Correction: some aspects of sex are a normal topic of discussion.  I'm sure you wouldn't need to think very hard to realise that there are details you'd rather not talk about in the bus - and what you write here is much more public than that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 10 Oct 2014, 07:58
Opting on the side of least harm is a good thing, yeah?

But where is that line? Ya can't tell people not to speak yet complain that people don't understand you because they pretty much have ingrained notions already due to misinformation that was perpetuated in the first place by shutting people up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 10 Oct 2014, 08:00
Also, Jeph's views on things change with time. Something that he may have felt was completely acceptable when he posted it, say, way back in 2003 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=10), may not be something he considers acceptable today.

And, while that example is one where he actually went back and edited the comic... not all examples would be that bad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Oct 2014, 08:03
Ya can't tell people not to speak yet complain that people don't understand you because they pretty much have ingrained notions already due to misinformation that was perpetuated in the first place by shutting people up.

We have considerable resources to help people understand in the Discuss! forum.  We try to direct people there as soon as they raise the matter, and if possible before then (from the rules and stickies).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 10 Oct 2014, 08:05
Re: Claire/Marten sexytimes, while I'm certain Jeph will avoid any revelations about Claire's parts (out of sensitivity to the trans community, not because he's never talked about any other character's genitals), I hope--and, knowing Jeph's awesomeness, expect--that he won't totally avoid any comics about their sex life.  He writes about all the cis couples' sex lives, and saying "no no no, can't mention anything to do with this couple's sex life because Claire is trans" would be a weird double standard.  (If he had depicted/described every character's genitals as a really important element of the comic, then it'd be a weird double standard to avoid alluding to Claire's, but he hasn't--he's just referred to a few of them in passing.)  Most of his comics about sex focus on feelings and relationships--for instance, the "dissertation" one was all about how Tai and Dora got past their awkwardness and had an exhaustingly wild time in the sack, without any reference to exactly what they did during that wild time--so it would be easy to write comics about Marty and Claire that follow this model.  And I'm sure they'll be adorable.

I could see Faye concluding with something along the lines of: "He's yours to look after now, Red. He's a great guy and I think you'll do the job but if you don't...? Well, then I'll come back to snap your arms and legs."
That sounds like Faye, for sure.

My guess is that he might actually be quite nice to Claire in his unique way - by treating her as a female sex object the way he does all the other ladies.
Yeah, he'll probably just want to grab her boobs.  After all, that's the part of most ladies that he usually focuses on.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aimless on 10 Oct 2014, 08:06
Dora seems to have gotten a new face
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 10 Oct 2014, 08:09
Dora seems to have gotten a new face
It's her surprised happy face. Haven't seen much of it lately.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: lepetitfromage on 10 Oct 2014, 08:12
Ok, usually I make a habit to stay out of the WCDT but I felt compelled to throw this all out there.

Personally, I don't see why Claire's anatomy has to be up for discussion at all. Yes, the comics that were linked had anatomy mentioned but that is a handful of strips out of almost 3K. I think we'll make it through this just fine without the need to know what is happening below Claire's belt.


However (and this may have been mentioned in this thread before....forgive me for reading up to page 10 and then giving up):

Perhaps an important notion for us to gather from discussion of Claire's gender identity is that she is fucking BRAVE. Opening up to Marten about being trans not very long after they met? That's bravery if you ask me. Hell- it's not easy in the slightest to EXIST as someone who is trans in our society yet and it won't get any easier until people that don't "get it" start to either express some empathy or quit being jackasses.

Maybe Marten realizes this and she has inspired him to be brave/assertive enough to act upon his attraction to her? Maybe her quip about him working at the library forever was another little helpful mental push for him to act on taking his life where he wants it to go. Maybe the first step is realizing that he wants some (all?) of this journey to be with Claire by his side. Perhaps this is only the beginning of how the two of them will be able to learn and grow together.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 10 Oct 2014, 08:17
I agree totally, as it happens.  I just think that where trans person issues are concerned, it's damnably difficult to have those discussions in a way that doesn't offend/hurt people.  Sex may be a universal, but if you're not a trans person, you can put everything you know and understand about their lives in a gnat's navel with room for two caraway seeds and an agent's heart.  Opting on the side of least harm is a good thing, yeah?

I get what you mean, but let's step back for a minute.  Claire being trans has basically only been brought up three times in the entire comic - her coming out to Marten, her coming out to Emily, and this past week.  There have been subtle inferences elsewhere (like the dressing room scene) but if you took those comics out, no one would have guessed she was trans. 

If the comic always presents their relationship in a desexualized manner, and nothing explicit is ever said, then really what difference is there between Marten dating someone trans or cis?  Of course, in reality there would be differences (although each person is an individual) but if the reader isn't presented with them, what are they going to learn besides trans people are just like the rest of us?  When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans?  I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner. 

Yeah, he'll probably just want to grab her boobs.  After all, that's the part of most ladies that he usually focuses on.

He's already spanked her butt.  Hell, Claire is the only woman who's willingly (albeit reluctantly) let Pintsize molest her. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 10 Oct 2014, 08:22
How much do I love Tai?

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 10 Oct 2014, 08:23
Quote
Correction: some aspects of sex are a normal topic of discussion.

Noted, and agreed to a large extent.  However, I think there has been humor value in the situations where an entity did not, for whatever reason, have those filters engaged correctly.  I also think that for reasons discussed many times, that humor would not work with Claire.

Edit: a comma
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 10 Oct 2014, 08:25
Quote
If the comic always presents their relationship in a desexualized manner, and nothing explicit is ever said, then really what difference is there between Marten dating someone trans or cis?

That's not what's happening, though, and that's not what's verboten.  If it happens in the comic, it'll get discussed - it's speculation about it that's against the rules.  And I'm good with that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Oct 2014, 08:29
When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans?  I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner.

How that happens in the comic is up to Jeph.  If you want to know more of how that will happen, you can ask him directly (but don't expect an answer).  If you want answers to your first question, start with the threads in Discuss!, and also follow some of the links there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Smallest on 10 Oct 2014, 08:47
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974)

I think thats the one in relation to the topic at hand right now.

This is the one I meant when I first mentioned Tai binding, but I couldn't find it at the time.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 10 Oct 2014, 09:04
He's already spanked her butt.  Hell, Claire is the only woman who's willingly (albeit reluctantly) let Pintsize molest her.

*nevermind, sometimes not quoting the entire before comment leads to wrong comments!!*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SteveCostello on 10 Oct 2014, 09:05
One thing I don't seem to recall is other characters' awareness of Claire being trans. That could be an interesting, if brief, story arc. As far as I can recall, there are only five characters that know: Claire (obvs), Clinton, Mrs. A, Marten, and Emily.

Edited to add: They'd need to make sure that, of all of the characters in the QC universe, Pintsize would never find out. Because... he's an ass, and would likely be worse than ANY of the commenters in this forum on these matters! :)

Re-edited to add Emily.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Fig on 10 Oct 2014, 09:09
One thing I don't seem to recall is other characters' awareness of Claire being trans. That could be an interesting, if brief, story arc. As far as I can recall, there are only four characters that know: Claire (obvs), Clinton, Mrs. A, and Marten.

Edited to add: They'd need to make sure that, of all of the characters in the QC universe, Pintsize would never find out. Because... he's an ass, and would likely be worse than ANY of the commenters in this forum on these matters! :)

Emily also knows since Claire told her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SteveCostello on 10 Oct 2014, 09:14
Emily also knows since Claire told her.

AH! Excellent memory. I'll edit my post.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: GarandMarine on 10 Oct 2014, 09:14
When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans?  I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner.

How that happens in the comic is up to Jeph.  If you want to know more of how that will happen, you can ask him directly (but don't expect an answer).  If you want answers to your first question, start with the threads in Discuss!, and also follow some of the links there.
Having dated several trans women myself, allow me to say that dating trans women is just like dating pretty much all other women. Filled with unique challenges and adversity because they're all individuals. How it happens in comic is up to Jeph but here in meat space it's just like dating any other pretty lass you fancy.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 09:18
One thing I don't seem to recall is other characters' awareness of Claire being trans. That could be an interesting, if brief, story arc. As far as I can recall, there are only four characters that know: Claire (obvs), Clinton, Mrs. A, and Marten.

Edited to add: They'd need to make sure that, of all of the characters in the QC universe, Pintsize would never find out. Because... he's an ass, and would likely be worse than ANY of the commenters in this forum on these matters! :)

Emily also knows since Claire told her.

We know that Tai knew a trans-man who identified himself as a male (and thus she used the male pronoun just because that was who he was). So, I think that there is a measurable probability that Tai has guessed Claire's secret and has never mentioned it because (a) it has never come up and (b) it isn't any of her business who Claire does and does not tell these things.


[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 10 Oct 2014, 09:20
If the comic always presents their relationship in a desexualized manner, and nothing explicit is ever said, then really what difference is there between Marten dating someone trans or cis?  Of course, in reality there would be differences (although each person is an individual) but if the reader isn't presented with them, what are they going to learn besides trans people are just like the rest of us?  When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans?  I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner. 

I think this is what I want to see the most.  I want to see the relationship done in the same way as all of the others. The off-colour joking, the cuddles, the post sexy time moments. There doesn't need to be an after school lesson each time, but if done right, it could be something really special.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 09:21
Tai knew a woman who identified himself as a male (and thus she used the male pronoun just because that was who he was).

A trans man. Not a woman.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Comic Strip Critic on 10 Oct 2014, 09:22
My guess about Pintsize is that he determined, via a complexity algorithm, that crude, offensive humour was the only thing that got under Marten's skin enough to drive him to exit his passive 'let someone else take the lead' comfort zone. My guess is that he might actually be quite nice to Claire in his unique way - by treating her as a female sex object the way he does all the other ladies.

That makes so much sense it's almost terrifying.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 09:37
[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.

I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 09:42
[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.

I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.

I'll be brutally obvious here: If I wanted to talk about it, I'd have gone to the appropriate forum (and, frankly, so should anyone who wants to talk about it, no matter how 'relevant' they think it is to the comic).

I appreciate that people in these situations can and do feel very sensitive to depictions and descriptions directed at them. I also appreciate that, in a written format as all these communications are, it is very difficult to differentiate between hate speech and "what the hell do I call this anyway?" That's basically why I edited the post - because I knew that tempers and passions had been running hot on the subject of words and their differing meaning to differing people; I just didn't want to restart it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 10 Oct 2014, 10:01
[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.

I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.
These things do take time, and I'm not trying to be condescending here.  There's still a need to fight, since trans* rights and recognition are maybe where gay rights were at in the '80s (or '90s if one is being more optimistic).  It's a shitty situation, but it does seem to be getting better, not just here with Claire as a great character who I don't see as trans* unless it comes up in comic, but with the character of Sophia in "Orange Is the New Black" (blanking on the actress's name).  The more media that "normalises" (yeah, bad term, since trans* people are already normal) trans* people, and the more people in our lives that come out, the fewer problems we'll have as a society.  Without places like these fora, I'd know precisely ONE trans guy.  Here, thanks to the evolution in communications, I get to converse with many more, and more importantly, just shut up and listen to what they have to say.

I want to thank a lot of the community here to give me both the courage, and the drive to stand up to trans-phobic bollocks, and maybe impart some of what I have learnt unto others.  Even though the mods are clocking up overtime getting rid of the worst, there are still a load of people here who won't reduce someone to their gender identity.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 10:02
in a written format as all these communications are, it is very difficult to differentiate between hate speech and "what the hell do I call this anyway?"

When in doubt, it's better to ask a question than make an assumption. In a written format, you have all the time in the world to get it right.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MonkeyBusiness on 10 Oct 2014, 10:25
in a written format as all these communications are, it is very difficult to differentiate between hate speech and "what the hell do I call this anyway?"

When in doubt, it's better to ask a question than make an assumption. In a written format, you have all the time in the world to get it right.

Can we...not? 

Listen, I'm just going to put this out there. I was born a woman. I present as a tomboy of a woman. I don't tell anyone that in my head, I refer to myself as male (although I've been known to slip up and use male pronouns when referring to myself in conversation in the third person) because of legit transphobia that runs throughout my family, as in if I ever admitted that I'm pretty sure I'm actually a guy things would become exceptionally dangerous.  I haven't even admitted that I'm bisexual openly except to two boyfriends (and all three of my girlfriends, because obviously I wasn't going to be able to hide that from them).  In fact, I literally just created this account because I don't want to post on my main account on the off-chance someone is going to recognize my screen name and put two and two together.

While BenRG's comment wasn't initially phrased in the most sensitive manner, the comment was edited and the admission that maybe it wasn't phrased the best was made.  BenRG is aware that it wasn't the most sensitive.  Can we not turn this into something that it isn't?  Please?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 10:36
@MonkeyBusiness,

Be safe.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 10:51
I'm happy BenRG made the edit, but I'm unhappy that he inserted that dismissive remark minimizing the importance of the issue, and I'm unhappy that he persisted in an argument that respectful language is unduly difficult to deploy.

I hope some day you feel free to identify however you like - tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you. I wish you the best of luck in moving toward your comfort zone. I'm sorry transphobia has shaped your experience so greatly, and I understand why you'd hesitate to call out bad behavior in your family space -- but please don't tell me not to call out bad behavior on a public forum. This was a teachable moment and I don't regret reaching for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MonkeyBusiness on 10 Oct 2014, 11:18
I'm happy BenRG made the edit, but I'm unhappy that he inserted that dismissive remark minimizing the importance of the issue, and I'm unhappy that he persisted in an argument that respectful language is unduly difficult to deploy.

I hope some day you feel free to identify however you like - tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you. I wish you the best of luck in moving toward your comfort zone. I'm sorry transphobia has shaped your experience so greatly, and I understand why you'd hesitate to call out bad behavior in your family space -- but please don't tell me not to call out bad behavior on a public forum. This was a teachable moment and I don't regret reaching for it.

...This is going to be my last post on this, but there are a few things I need to address here.

As you're going on about how you made this a teachable moment, you tell me you hope I can feel free to identify however I like, and then list "tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you" - right after I explicitly said I identify myself as male, albeit within my own head.  I didn't mention anything about calling out anyone's behavior, just that I cannot - at this time - identify myself as male openly.  So why is it okay for you, in one breath, to come down pretty hard on one person for slipping up when, in the next, you make a mistake of your own?

I'm not mad. I'm not even offended. I'm saying that intent matters, and the more "reactionary" people get to what was obviously not intended to be an attack on the trans community and was clearly a mistake, the further we push progress back.  Snide remarks are not how you teach (and I'm referring specifically to "in written format, you have all the time in the world to get it right" and "I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.").  That's how you belittle, and belittling earns little more than resistance to the point you're trying to make.

I won't respond further. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HES on 10 Oct 2014, 11:29
Re Pintsize, I suspect the most he will do is begin to say something vulgar and inappropriate before being quickly silenced by Marten/Faye in their usual fashion. That way we get the typical pintsize reaction without actually unleashing anything.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cyril on 10 Oct 2014, 11:35
Loved the shout out to the rabid fans.
And really happy that there was at least some mention made at this point. I've always felt that Marten and most of the rest of the cast, while idealized/progressive (in the sense that everything is mildly 'progressed' in the QC universe; tech, culture, &c), are fairly representative of the readership as well, who are also a pretty ideal/progressive bunch. The sheer force of curiosity and desire to discuss and s-word (speculate) confirms to me my personal reaction that if Marten didn't have an opinion it would be remarkably odd and stretch credibility. Not everything needs to happen 'on screen' but the various interactions surrounding identity and even anatomy do matter in a relationship to almost everyone... Well, I would posit that Marten literally not caring or discovering that he doesn't care would be revelatory in a pretty huge way. The handling of it here was tasteful and touching, but also a bit of a relief (although that may not be the right word) to see that his internal development is as complex and realistic as we've come to expect.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Dalillama on 10 Oct 2014, 11:36
I've been reading these threads for a few weeks now, and pedantry has overcome me to the point where I had to create an account.  Please forgive me if I tread on any unwritten rules.

For those wondering, the last panel 2217 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217) is where Tai tells Faye that she's already written slashfic of Marten with each of the interns.


So am I and I call everyone mate, as do all the people I know of all genders. My girlfriend's best friend is trans and she refers to him as her 'best mate' (said friend goes with male pronouns in fairness).
I would venture to suggest that if the individual in question is trans and goes by male pronouns, it is quite likely that he is a trans man, and thus it is not unexpected that his friends would use male-coded terms to address him.  In short, this is not actually an argument in favor of 'mate' being a non-gendered or unisex term.


It matters cause people say we can't talk about it, yet here we have examples of it being made. Ya can't put the genie back into the bottle once ya open it.....
There's a thing called context, that's very important in these types of discussions.  Specifically, there's the context in which (as has been exhaustively explained over and over in this and prior WCDT threads and in the thread specifically devoted to the discussion in question), that trans* people's bodies are considered public property, and subjected chronically to all manner of dehumanizing and excessively personal questions and discussion of same which cis people simply do not experience.  So, that is why it is, in fact, a different conversation, and the fact that other character's genitals have been discussed/mentioned is not, in fact, germane in any way.

  It's a shitty situation, but it does seem to be getting better, not just here with Claire as a great character who I don't see as trans* unless it comes up in comic, but with the character of Sophia in "Orange Is the New Black" (blanking on the actress's name).
Laverne Cox.  Who I hope to see in lots of things in future, I'm a huge fan.  She and her twin brother M. Lamar have a very interesting interview here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/laverne-cox-m-lamar-lgbt-black-communities_n_1262990.html), about identity, gender, race, and sexuality.


Listen, I'm just going to put this out there. ...
Best of wishes in your future endeavours and hopes that your situation improves.  My husband is from a similar background to yours, and his situation has, although it involved moving several hundred miles and eventually cutting off contact with his family.  So, you know, for what it's worth.  Anyway, you've all my support.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 12:00
Snide remarks are not how you teach (and I'm referring specifically to "in written format, you have all the time in the world to get it right" and "I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.").

I'd describe my remarks as "offended but dispassionate", but if snide works for you, so be it. I did my best to ignore my hurt feelings and speak for myself in a way that was forceful but not rude. I'm still glad I said something, and I reject your attempt to police my tone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 10 Oct 2014, 13:01
@AprilArcus, I appreciate and agree with a lot of what you have said during these threads and I'm not gonna weigh in on what was said between you and the other two people with whom you are currently exchanging words...

... However, what I will say is that you have spoken about teachable moments and the importance of respecting people's genders and identity. However, MonkeyBusiness just identified the fact that you misgendered him (not on purpose, I know - your intention are, I believe, clearly good) and yet in your response you didn't even acknowledge that that happened, let alone apologise. Part of teaching and sharing  these good manners and fair treatment of all genders and identities is accepting that everyone makes mistakes and, most importantly, owning up to those mistakes and apologising for them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: St.Clair on 10 Oct 2014, 13:15
Welcome to the internet, where being right is (much, much, much) more important than being nice.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 13:18
As you're going on about how you made this a teachable moment, you tell me you hope I can feel free to identify however I like, and then list "tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you" - right after I explicitly said I identify myself as male, albeit within my own head.  I didn't mention anything about calling out anyone's behavior, just that I cannot - at this time - identify myself as male openly.

I chose my words incorrectly here. In trying to acknowledge your evolving situation, I used the word "identity" where I ought to have said "presentation". I respect your firm self-identification as a man, and I am sincerely sorry that my response read as dismissive.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 13:27
So, anyway, does anyone have any thoughts on my suggestion that Tai may have deduced Claire's trans status by way of her previous experience of other trans persons? I, personally, think it would be in-character for Tai to have an "I know and I don't see what difference it makes" attitude but her knowledge might be revealed to Claire at some point in the near future.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Oct 2014, 13:39
I'd think it's more appropriate to think about what character X would/will think if/when they find out about Claire.

Faye: "She's WHAT?"
Dora: "Oh, dear, did I break you?"
Tai: "Yeah, whatever, I've known for a while now."
Cosette: "What's a Trans?"
Penelope: "Just like my ex-boss at the bookstore."
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 10 Oct 2014, 13:42
Agreed; I think at some point someone's gonna have to react in an ignorant (not hateful) way, and get corrected, and Cosette, goddess bless her, is just the klutz for it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Oct 2014, 13:45
More in that vein:

Dale: "Cool!"
Marigold: "She is not. Come on, how gullible do you think I am?"
Pintsize: "I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON I LIKED HER!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 10 Oct 2014, 13:46
It has seemed likely to me for a while that there must be other people in the comic that know or have deduced but are waiting for Claire to trust them enough to tell them.

At the same time there might well be other characters that are passing as their identified gender1 but have chosen not to come out to anyone.

1 I am using this term having read http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.pdf and decided not to use the word "preferred". Did I chose the right term?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Oct 2014, 13:52
Welcome to the internet, where being right is (much, much, much) more important than being nice.
Global Moderator Comment No, this is not "the internet". This is an artist's permanent floating party, reachable via the internet. The artist has said "the moral of my comic is that people should try to be nice to each other."
Global Moderator Comment (happy dance)A lot of people right now are handling emotionally charged discussions in a respectful way that is Good For The Forum. Some of you are going to get direct PMs full of thanks.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MonkeyBusiness on 10 Oct 2014, 14:00
As you're going on about how you made this a teachable moment, you tell me you hope I can feel free to identify however I like, and then list "tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you" - right after I explicitly said I identify myself as male, albeit within my own head.  I didn't mention anything about calling out anyone's behavior, just that I cannot - at this time - identify myself as male openly.

I chose my words incorrectly here. In trying to acknowledge your evolving situation, I used the word "identity" where I ought to have said "presentation". I respect your firm self-identification as a man, and I am sincerely sorry that my response read as dismissive.

Okay, one more post.

Thank you.  I really do appreciate that.  You didn't have to, and I really wasn't upset by it, but it does mean something, so thank you.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 10 Oct 2014, 14:00
Sorry, if this has already been covered but I skipped a few of the pages.

It would be interesting to see how Claire deals with Tai's plans for them.  I agree with those that feel that this was natural for the two of them (a look at some of the earlier strips shows just how much time they spent together and Marten got jealous when Claire praised Steve's shoulders).  After all Marten tends to fall those he's around and Claire's been close to him for a while.

However, whilst I think they make a good pair, I do still wonder whether Claire's ready for a relationship.  Looking at these two (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431) strips (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432), Claire showed an emotional response way outside of what would be expected in a similar situation.  Then again she has shown that she can be assertive and that I can't remember any other time when she felt she needed medication to deal with things.

Other people have pointed out that Marten and Claire's personalities are a better match than Marten and Dora.  The earlier relationship lasted about 15-18 months.  How long would Marten and Claire last?  I expect that it would be at least twice that.  If they settle down and have children (either their own or adopted) then I can see them being together for the long haul -- Claire would have a career and Marten would bring up the child(ren).  However, if there weren't any children then I strongly suspect that Claire's ambitious side would get frustrated with Marten's lack of get up and go.

Bringing it back to the present, I'm trying to work out how Tai would tell our happy couple that she knows.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 10 Oct 2014, 14:03
I don't know if in anglophone countries you have this adage, but with our journalists the tell in every college "if a dog bites a persons this is not notice, but if a person bites a dog it is". All discussion about Claire anatomy is because she is trans, and it is as justified as some discussion about the kind of piercing Tai chose e.g. The privte parts of Dora or Marten otherwise are pure boring.

Some pages earlier there is a very schizophrenic post saying: "we have no right to discuss this private matters, because the characters are like real people, and it is disrespectful, even if this kind of conversation is common along they, because we are not really friends of they."

Geez, this is a comic with characters, not people we can hurt the feelings. The only sensitivity we should respect is of the forum members. Real people should be respected, and this is a very private matter to discuss about someone, so I never will talk so openly their genitalia, but with Claire would be ok, if there was not the fact this conversation disguise some people on the forum.

Also, as a not native: I hould agree with the Urban dictionary definition of "I ship it (http://pt.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20ship%20it)" and assume Tai knows Claire is trans?
Maybe she discovered in the selection of interns or something, she have some bureaucratic responsibilities in the library.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 10 Oct 2014, 14:07
Also, as a not native: I hould agree with the Urban dictionary definition of "I ship it (http://pt.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20ship%20it)" and assume Tai knows Claire is trans?
Maybe she discovered in the selection of interns or something, she have some bureaucratic responsibilities in the library.

Not necessarily - "shipping" isn't limited to homosexual relationships anymore (the way UD seems to want to define it).  Harry Potter in particular is springing to mind with this...it's evolved to include any sort of pairing of two fictional characters (or, you know, not fictional people, like bandmates and things).

Sorry. TL;DR - "shipping" can be done with any two people of any gender, so I wouldn't say that's a hint that Tai knows Claire is trans.  But I think it would be a cool plot point if she did and hasn't said anything out of respect for her.

EDIT FOR IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION: I realize that Marten/Claire isn't a homosexual relationship; I just meant that it's what UD seems to define shipping as, and that's how Cochise seems to be interpreting it, probably because of language barriers.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 10 Oct 2014, 14:09
1 I am using this term having read http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.pdf and decided not to use the word "preferred". Did I chose the right term?
Yup! and thank you for taking the time to look it up ^_^
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Oct 2014, 14:10
I rather don't think that Claire would be frustrated by Marten's lack of ambition all that much. One of the things she praised him on was his stability. In fact she got a bit upset when he mentioned that he might leave the library... for some pretty clear reasons now of course. So long as he doesn't get in the way of her ambitions, or become a leach if they move in together eventually I don't see this as a problem for her. She might nag him to wear ear protection when playing his music, but I don't think she'll get all upset if he never does anything major with his life.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Gnomeybum on 10 Oct 2014, 14:10
Cochise, it isn't about the feelings of the characters, per se, it is about the fact that Claire is a representation of the trans community and so should be treated with the same respect that we would treat a non-fictional person. People who identify with her may be negatively affected by other people's invasive line of questioning.

Your curiosity does not, I'm afraid, trump other people's comfort and safety.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Oct 2014, 14:11
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.

Jimbo and Steve, to a lesser extent, but I hope not for the same reason. It could be that Jeph is on a roll and we will find out soon. But he has a lot of other plots rolling, so he can easily back burner Claire's gender. Especially as it's less relevant than pretty much everything else about Claire.

If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.

Thinking about the argument that people have discussed their fiddly bits in the comic, it occurs to me that I haven't seen any character say anything on haven't heard from a real person. That said, I can't assume that what we've seen represents every time a QC character has pontificated on the subject. I'm sure it isn't, just as I am sure we haven't seen every bowl of cereal Steve's eaten.

Nothing says we are going to be privy to every example of that discussion. Everything says we're going to see exactly as much as is required to tell the story or sell the joke. If Jeph doesn't want to base the story on that, or tell a joke about it, that's the end of it. There's lots of stuff he can do that doesn't cover specifics.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: KOK on 10 Oct 2014, 14:13
Correction: some aspects of sex are a normal topic of discussion.  I'm sure you wouldn't need to think very hard to realise that there are details you'd rather not talk about in the bus.

I wish. It seems that some people think that what they say into a phone is only heard by the person on the other phone. Or they behave as if they do.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 10 Oct 2014, 14:29
Neko_Ali,

I hope you're right but I'm sure that a componant of the seeking of someone stable is the fact that she's worried about her future because, whilst she's ambitious, she doesn't know if she could pass everything and then gain/keep employment.  As she gains more confidence in herself and her abilities that fear would diminish.  If it's a small componant of how she feels then they are likely to survive a lot longer.

Another thing that counts against the relationship is that people rarely stay with their first love simply because they probably did not realise exactly what they want in a relationship and, as a people grow older, priorities change.  It means that people quite often drift apart.  This is the first time that she's been in a relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyTuba on 10 Oct 2014, 14:37
Geez, this is a comic with characters, not people we can hurt the feelings.

Cochise, it isn't about the feelings of the characters, per se...

In his old Q&A sessions on his tumblr and also periodically on twitter, Jeph sometimes chooses to, possibly with tongue in cheek, possibly somewhat seriously, respond to such prying questions by describing the character's opinions in the direct third person as if they were real.

Since this is his forum (and he is watching periodically) I think it's safer (and certainly more polite) to err on the side of respecting this perspective and keep in mind that to some of us, and certainly to Jeph these *are* real entities, even if they happen to exist only in Jeph's mind/creative universe/millieu/etc.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 10 Oct 2014, 14:48
Not necessarily - "shipping" isn't limited to homosexual relationships anymore.
Thanks. That expression, if I seen before don't cared to research any deep meaning.

People who identify with her may be negatively affected by other people's invasive line of questioning.
Your curiosity does not, I'm afraid, trump other people's comfort and safety.
And because of this I don't spoke any more of the matter. "Claire would be ok, if there was not the fact this conversation disguise some people on the forum."
But if we don't use a real justify the avoidance we only feed the debate. Invoking "decency", "respect" or other reasons to draw this line was  a exceptionalism, what called a lot of counter arguments, exemplifications, etc.
"Some people in this forum will be disguised by this discussion. Please don't." otherwise can be opposed only by really mean people.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 10 Oct 2014, 14:53
I've just checked and the TV Tropes page for Shipper On Deck has been updated with a link to today's page.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 10 Oct 2014, 15:00
Quote
In his old Q&A sessions on his tumblr and also periodically on twitter, Jeph sometimes chooses to, possibly with tongue in cheek, possibly somewhat seriously, respond to such prying questions by describing the character's opinions in the direct third person as if they were real.
As a writer I have various characters I know as real people and in some way care a lot about they, so I could totally understand this sort of attitude, even more for character you are working for more than a decade. But my firs reaction was "How smart of him!".
Yeah, I have a very cold heart.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: marbledmurrelet on 10 Oct 2014, 15:20
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974)
I think thats the one in relation to the topic at hand right now.
Yup, thanks! I kind of remember now...

If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.
I'd rather think if anyone has first-hand experience with trans chicks, it's Sven... And he seems pretty chill about everything. He's spoilt and self-absorbed, but I don't see anything malicious in him. Maybe it's just because he's kind of... a little bit... my type.  :oops: (Yeah, lucky me)

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 15:26
If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.

I'd rather think if anyone has first-hand experience with trans chicks, it's Sven... And he seems pretty chill about everything. He's spoilt and self-absorbed, but I don't see anything malicious in him. Maybe it's just because he's kind of... a little bit... my type.  :oops: (Yeah, lucky me)

I agree that Sven isn't malicious; he's just so self-absorbed and self-centred that he doesn't really consider the consequences of his actions on others. Everything is about him all the time. Because of that, yes, I can see him hurting someone quite badly and being utterly horrified when others bring it to his attention; it wouldn't have been his intention it's just he never considered the outcome of his actions beyond his own narrow interests.

In the context of Claire, I can see him 'responding' to a Deathmole piece by writing a 'humorous' ditty about a trans-woman that Claire's friends immediately realise uses her as 'inspiration'. Dora... wouldn't be amused but I can imagine Sven would be shocked that anyone would be upset; it isn't as if he used her name or anything!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 10 Oct 2014, 15:32
By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.

However, whilst I think they make a good pair, I do still wonder whether Claire's ready for a relationship.  Looking at these two (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431) strips (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432), Claire showed an emotional response way outside of what would be expected in a similar situation.
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.

That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.

Wondering whether that makes Claire not ready for a relationship may be a bit harsh. Nobody's perfect, and she's seems more ready than most of us were for our first relationships.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 15:54
By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.

To me, 'outed' means 'becomes general knowledge'. I prefer to think of it as more people knowing than she realised (and not necessarily from indiscretion by people she trusted either) and this consequently becoming something that naturally affects and informs her everyday interactions with some people. I also think it might be a nice little reassurance to her that there are people in her social circle who do not judge her based on labels and she can trust to keep her secrets even though she never previously realised they knew said secrets.

FWIW, the reason I highlighted Tai earlier is because I think Claire needs a woman she can confide in when it comes to certain personal matters. Emily is too ditzy and, well there are just some things you can't talk to your mother about, no matter how good a person she is.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: swapna on 10 Oct 2014, 15:59
[edited for shortness]
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.

Kind of, but I think I see the problem here as well.  Her anxiety attack was brought on by the behaviour of her brother, who should know better. Either he's an assclown - which very well could be, but then why should she talk about very intimate stuff with him then? Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: marbledmurrelet on 10 Oct 2014, 16:15
By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.
I was wondering the same...
Claire being trans (IF that would become known at all, it sure doesn't have to)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Cochise on 10 Oct 2014, 16:20
Sven was almost forgotten when he returned to say he loves Feye, then Dora decided to do a "svenctomy". I really can't see how he can make sufficient contact with Marten and Claire to do any harm.

And I'm not sure if anyone will be the "ignorant person". In the past few years we had a lot of "you probably will be scared by..." and the response was "this is totally awesome!". Our cast is very open minded. And if I must bet, the "ignorant person" will be ignorant to a third person, not directly to Marten or Claire. As I said, Jeph seems to prefer to show the good examples instead show the bad to confront them, and this reduce the chance of a "ignorant person" make some real damage.

And I just remember there was a comment I was willing to respond and forget. Some pages earlier someone said Claire was a lot of brave in telling Marten she was trans so earlier.

My opinion is she must have think Marten was making a move on her, and my opinion is she was right. He goes to her in a pretty "private" place, what Faye called to be good for makeouts when chased them out. Maybe he went just to make some company, without the intention to make a move, but I think if none of the distractions showed up, he must made it. So I don't know if was bravery or if was fear, sometimes courage is only the fear to run out. The medals don't discriminate, why should I? The point is not this.

The point is we had a theory about the slow growing of affection that leads to this week and maybe the right theory is about the slow growing of acceptance. Besides the affection really grew this whole time, the difference is "Marten was ready to made a move on Claire in the deck if she is cis, but take him a time (and some more affection) to accept she as trans".

The benefit of this line of thought is Marten is acting a bit more in character if it's true, because we move the point when he is ready to make a move from the couch of last week to the party, and when he noticed that was natural hug Claire and he was willing to kiss her, he decided to confess.

But this is only conjectures, a lot of them. Maybe tomorrow I change my mind again.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Arkantos on 10 Oct 2014, 16:42
And I'm not sure if anyone will be the "ignorant person". In the past few years we had a lot of "you probably will be scared by..." and the response was "this is totally awesome!". Our cast is very open minded. And if I must bet, the "ignorant person" will be ignorant to a third person, not directly to Marten or Claire. As I said, Jeph seems to prefer to show the good examples instead show the bad to confront them, and this reduce the chance of a "ignorant person" make some real damage.

Showing the good example, in my own personal experience, does a lot more good than waiting for (or, in our case, showing) the bad example to correct it. I recently had a friend come out as gay to our relatively socially conservative group of friends, so I provided the good example of acceptance and affirmation rather than waiting for someone to say something harmful to him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 10 Oct 2014, 16:45
there are just some things you can't talk to your mother about, no matter how good a person she is. her pancakes taste.

FTFY.  :-D

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: iandanger on 10 Oct 2014, 17:06

[edited for shortness]
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.

Kind of, but I think I see the problem here as well.  Her anxiety attack was brought on by the behaviour of her brother, who should know better. Either he's an assclown - which very well could be, but then why should she talk about very intimate stuff with him then? Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.

This doesn't ring true to me at all, first of all Marten expressly didn't bring it up, and reacted well when Clinton did. Second of all Clinton is completely socially unaware, on numerous occasions he's been wildly inappropriate, and that includes him talking to and about Claire. He's mean, overprotective, clueless, and hurts people around him as a result. Why we would read Clinton hurting his sister in this moment as boding poorly for her being in a relationship, I have no idea.

More importantly, people with anxiety are more than capable of forming relationships. Having another intimate friendship will probably be quite healthy for her as she'll have someone who she can talk to that isn't her brother. She's definitely in therapy, and hell she's 24, we're not talking about a child.

Tldr: Claire isn't hannelor, it's annoying that having sufficient anxiety to be medicated is treated by so many people here as a guarantor of an inability to form a healthy bond
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: swapna on 10 Oct 2014, 17:50
Yes, people on anxiety medication can form healthy bonds - example from the comic is that Hanners for example has a lot of great friendships.

Just sayin', it might pose difficulties, especially since somebody who's so committed to protecting Claire is the one who'll trigger. Her relationship with him is very close in that she would tell him something like that. To be clear, again: I'm not saying that people with anxiety/on medication/on therapy can't form relationships or whatever, no way. But Claire's anxiety seems to be related to intimacy, body issues and sexuality. Which does not bode well
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 10 Oct 2014, 17:51
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.

I don't know if she is the OBVIOUS choice. I feel like that is Pintsize.

But if I was a betting man I would put money on her saying something unintentionally offensive. That is if Jeph even decides to have any characters do that.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 10 Oct 2014, 18:01
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.

Jimbo and Steve, to a lesser extent, but I hope not for the same reason. It could be that Jeph is on a roll and we will find out soon. But he has a lot of other plots rolling, so he can easily back burner Claire's gender. Especially as it's less relevant than pretty much everything else about Claire.

If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.

Marigold loves yaoi remember.  Which of course isn't trans-related, but it is femmy guys gettin it on.  To my mind that means while she might make a really inane/stupid comment (since she is kinda stupid), she won't make a transphobic one. 

I see no reason why Jimbo or Sven will ever find out, as they are in the comic so infrequently, and not close to Marten.  Steve will eventually, but I think his reaction will probably be having his eyes bug out for a second, and then just being "cool, whatever bro."  That's how he rolls. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Oct 2014, 18:41
I don't know if she is the OBVIOUS choice. I feel like that is Pintsize.

But if I was a betting man I would put money on her saying something unintentionally offensive. That is if Jeph even decides to have any characters do that.

Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent. That's one reason I don't expect him to present a problem.  He will find a way to make Marten and Claire uncomfortable for his own amusement, yes. Beyond that, I don't see him having a motive. He does care about the gang.

Quote from: LotsOfPeople
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense.

Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Mar-bear is a likely candidate to do something problematic without any intent, or malice. You don't have to say something transphobic to be offensive, just like one doesn't have to be a bigoted to do something racist.

On a related note, I never said any cast members had to be ignorant. If said IF someone had to be. It seems to me that if that was, in the plan the villain is the appropriate character. Sven is as close as it gets.

Anyone else in the cast and it risks becoming a teachable moment. Jeph hasn't gone that route yet, so my money is actually on no one being uncool. At least not to any extent worth mentioning. Claire being trans is no more a joke than Emily being Japanese. We haven't seen Jeph jokes about the latter, I doubt we'll see him deal with the former.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 10 Oct 2014, 18:49
Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent.

He had unintentionally gay robot sex.  Does that count?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Oct 2014, 19:25
Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent.

He had unintentionally gay robot sex.  Does that count?
For the purpose of suggesting he would be intentionally crass on this subject? I would say no. Apples v. Oranges. Pintsize unintentionally harms himself all the time. Accidentally harming others is a rare thing for him.

One can make the case that he crosses the line. A lot of the things he does could be considered sexual assault. But he seems a good judge of who will put up with his antics and who won't. Instances of him inspiring known violent personalities to do him violence fall under the heading of unintentionally doing himself harm. In almost all of those cases, he intended to do what he did, even if he didn't intend all the consequences. I just don't see him accidentally being a hater or intentionally being hateful.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aliensporebomb on 10 Oct 2014, 20:16
Beyond all the other stuff that's been discussed this week is that so far everyone in the QC universe seems to be for this relationship. 

I'm just waiting for Claire's brother to react.  Someone's going to be a naysayer.  Just like in any relationship.  We'll just have to see.

That's the deal about major plot shifts like this: there's more unanswered than answered. 

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 10 Oct 2014, 20:41
Beyond all the other stuff that's been discussed this week is that so far everyone in the QC universe seems to be for this relationship. 

I'm just waiting for Claire's brother to react.  Someone's going to be a naysayer.  Just like in any relationship.  We'll just have to see.

That's the deal about major plot shifts like this: there's more unanswered than answered.

Honestly I think his reaction will be played more for laughs than drama.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Oct 2014, 20:48
Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Oct 2014, 21:03
Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 10 Oct 2014, 21:05
Yup
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 23:45
Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.

I admit that this is just a guess, but I got the impression that it surprised both of them that it was a trigger. I think that, looking back, that is when Claire realised that she was falling for Marten; she was that worried about his opinion of her. Not that she had any idea how to react to that or what to do about it.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 10 Oct 2014, 23:50
swapna, you put it better than I did.

Ben, if she's that concerned about Marten's opinion of her then it is not healthy for either of them. 

{edit} Then again, it looks as though she's calmed down since then.

Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.

Only if she studied at GC.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 10 Oct 2014, 23:59
Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.

"Pun-isher" would fit but I think Faye would veto it for fear it might encourage her. How about "Books"?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 11 Oct 2014, 00:11
Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
The genuinely nasty slur version is Ranga. Though even that can be used affectionately.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Oct 2014, 00:19
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Honkytonk on 11 Oct 2014, 02:26
Surely Claire is the little duck. Peep peep peep.

By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.

I think with Marten's group of friends being what they are, very little stays 'secret' for long - and not in a bad way. It won't happen immediately most probably, and Marten would obviously wait for Claire to do it, but I think she'll start feeling more comfortable around them and be willing to share. Like everyone is saying, I think they'll all be pretty chill about it. Clinton or Marten might also accidentally let it slip, which could be very awkward, but I don't think Jeph would go down that route.

But you make a good point, and it may well be that Claire doesn't feel the need to share.  Which is entirely her prerogative.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 11 Oct 2014, 03:48
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: mvdwege on 11 Oct 2014, 04:19
Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Mar-bear is a likely candidate to do something problematic without any intent, or malice. You don't have to say something transphobic to be offensive, just like one doesn't have to be a bigoted to do something racist.

It's not as if Marigold hasn't form here. She already caught herself inadvertently making a mildly homophobic statement (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1791) to Tai.

To be fair to her, she mmediately realised it after it left her mouth (http://ihttp://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1792) and she apologised, but yeah, I would not want to bet against Marigold being the first to make an insenistive remark in Claire's direction.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DavidGrohl on 11 Oct 2014, 04:22
Someone is going to have their trachea crushed (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2425).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Zebediah on 11 Oct 2014, 04:53
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906

Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 11 Oct 2014, 05:17
Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.

This seems especially likely for Claire. Notice how bright and easy she blushes and also the freckles; they're both signs of fair skin.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrillho on 11 Oct 2014, 06:10
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906

Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.

And Celts used to wear woad.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 11 Oct 2014, 06:25

And Celts used to wear woad.

Only till Mel Gibson did it. Then it became too mainstream and they stopped.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 11 Oct 2014, 06:47
Some anagrams of OMG I SHIP IT (some the help of an anagram generator):

I GOT IMPISH (We know, Tai ... )
OI SITH GIMP (Darth Maul?)
HI MOIST PIG (ummm ... )
I MIGHT IPSO (facto?)
THIS MOI PIG (multilingual but ungrammatical)
MOI PIG SHIT (I'll show myself out ... )
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: aliensporebomb on 11 Oct 2014, 07:36
I rather don't think that Claire would be frustrated by Marten's lack of ambition all that much. One of the things she praised him on was his stability. In fact she got a bit upset when he mentioned that he might leave the library... for some pretty clear reasons now of course. So long as he doesn't get in the way of her ambitions, or become a leach if they move in together eventually I don't see this as a problem for her. She might nag him to wear ear protection when playing his music, but I don't think she'll get all upset if he never does anything major with his life.

The other thought I had: we haven't seen her past up close and detailed and it's possible the stability and generally agreeable even disposition he has might be just what she needs.   

Think about it - she may have lost friends or had to change schools - who knows?  Only Jeph and it's probably not necessary to delve into it.

Instead of a guy who's trying to get an MBA and do tons of business travel she'd rather have a guy who will work a steady job, whatever it is, and be around.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 11 Oct 2014, 07:51
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:

They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other.

Won't happen.  Our stringy hero wasn't even trusted to help lift a sofa, remember?  A whole human being just seems out of the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 11 Oct 2014, 07:58
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:

They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other.

Won't happen.  Our stringy hero wasn't even trusted to help lift a sofa, remember?  A whole human being just seems out of the realm of possibility.

I expect Claire weighs less than an average sofa, however. She is fairly petite. I'm not saying Marten could or couldn't carry her, but comparing her to a sofa seems silly.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Oct 2014, 08:07
Comparing her to Hanners seems fair, though. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1313)

(Sure, it was only one arm but he could barely keep her from falling, much less pick her up outright)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 11 Oct 2014, 08:23
Yes, Hanners is probably a much better point of comparison. But for whatever reason, someone who goes limp just seems that much harder to pick up. Like a toddler or cat that doesn't want to be picked up. And Hanners seems to be pretty much dead weight there. Again, not saying Marten could carry Claire (and even if he could, probably not without some difficulty, scrawny as he is), but it could be explained away if Jeph decided to have it happen for the sake of the narrative/art/squee.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: TieDyeKat on 11 Oct 2014, 08:35
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906

There are actually blue people.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blue-skinned-people-kentucky-reveal-todays-genetic-lesson/story?id=15759819
 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blue-skinned-people-kentucky-reveal-todays-genetic-lesson/story?id=15759819)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Oct 2014, 08:47
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906

A little bit like a super heavy and large man in the US is called "Tiny".
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Oct 2014, 08:48
Yeah, but "tiny" is actually the opposite of true. Blue and red are just...different colours. If I had to think of an "opposite" of red I'd say green, but only because of traffic lights.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: bhtooefr on 11 Oct 2014, 08:49
There are actually blue people.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blue-skinned-people-kentucky-reveal-todays-genetic-lesson/story?id=15759819
 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blue-skinned-people-kentucky-reveal-todays-genetic-lesson/story?id=15759819)
Long tails, on the other hand... (yes, vestigal tails, but long ones?)

Oh, wait, wrong thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 11 Oct 2014, 09:10
Yeah, but "tiny" is actually the opposite of true. Blue and red are just...different colours. If I had to think of an "opposite" of red I'd say green, but only because of traffic lights.
I'd say cyan, actually.  Try doing colour adjustments in Photoshop.  The "opposite" pairings are red/cyan, yellow/blue, and green/magenta.  I can see how someone might confuse cyan with blue, though.

But for whatever reason, someone who goes limp just seems that much harder to pick up. Like a toddler or cat that doesn't want to be picked up.
Well, cats *are* a liquid.  Best to stick them into a container for involuntary transport.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 11 Oct 2014, 09:11
Yeah, but "tiny" is actually the opposite of true. Blue and red are just...different colours. If I had to think of an "opposite" of red I'd say green, but only because of traffic lights.

Cyan is the opposite of red, as far as photography and printing are concerned.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Leveton on 11 Oct 2014, 09:17
Well, cats *are* a liquid.  Best to stick them into a container for involuntary transport.

I'd say they're more of a non-Newtonian fluid, but for the purpose of this discussion that would be quibbling.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Orkboy on 11 Oct 2014, 09:25

And Celts used to wear woad.

Only till Mel Gibson did it. Then it became too mainstream and they stopped.

They also stopped because woad contains a narcotic with effects similar to PCP when absorbed through the skin.  Which explains a lot. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 11 Oct 2014, 09:27

And Celts used to wear woad.

Only till Mel Gibson did it. Then it became too mainstream and they stopped.
Those Celts, such hipsters.

Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DrBear on 11 Oct 2014, 09:54
 A final thought before we enter next week.

There has been speculation about somebody spilling Claire's information, whether it will hurt her, be embarassing, cause problems in her new relationship and so on.

If you look back, Jeph, for all the hoops he puts his characters through, rarely tries to harm them. Embarrass them, yes, but not in a serious, run off and become a nun way. The most painful thing that happened to a character was with Faye's father that caused her severe emotional problems that she is only now getting over. Compared to that, various characters showing up places in their underwear, having vomiting incidents, etc. are minor. Even Marten's breakup with Dora

So ... some embarassment down the line, maybe. and Clarten may not work out. But I don't think anybody will be in danger.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: hedgie on 11 Oct 2014, 10:12
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though.  He is the butt-monkey of the strip, after all.  I guess that'd make Hanners and Claire the woobies, though, so no harm done to Claire; even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 11 Oct 2014, 12:22
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though.  He is the butt-monkey of the strip, after all.  I guess that'd make Hanners and Claire the woobies, though, so no harm done to Claire; even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.

The saddest part of that is that it's true.  :-(
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: anahata on 11 Oct 2014, 13:45
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though. 

Marten's torturing himself mostly, which is why people poke fun at him about it.

Quote
even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.
True. And she'll be rescued from the sinking ship because Jeph wouldn't do otherwise... but I don't think it will sink. It may encounter stormy weather and have the wind against it at times, but I sense a quiet determination between the two of them to make it work.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 11 Oct 2014, 13:47
 Remember a few threads ago when 15 pages seemed a big deal?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 11 Oct 2014, 14:02
Remember a few threads ago when 15 pages seemed a big deal?

Threads last as long as we have something to post about...

Let's just hope that this one doesn't turn into another pancake thread. That last one made me hungry and, as I'm diabetic, the particular cravings it produced were just this side of psychological torture.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 11 Oct 2014, 14:08
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though.  He is the butt-monkey of the strip, after all.  I guess that'd make Hanners and Claire the woobies, though, so no harm done to Claire; even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.

The saddest part of that is that it's true.  :-(

Maybe Jeph has decided itīs about time for Marten to have grown and to be happy, to achieve his newfound goals in life (I dare speculate he will soon quit his job in the library - because he loves Claire and wants her to get her dream job - and being a wildly sucessful salesman or store manager at a music store) and to love and be loved the way he deserves, for at least the next 2810 comics. Of course, there will be ups and downs, but i donīt expect anything relationship-shattering as with Dora or Padma anytime soon.

I also think Marten is a perfect match as Claireīs first relationship. Why? He loved a girl so much he followed her across the country to Massachusets. He was patient for a long time with Faye, without bitterness and hard feelings, understanding and always a friend. He has been able to face Drama on his breakup with Dora - remember she definitely has issues since she visited Fayeīs therapist for quite some time. He has managed to make Hannelore able to hug somone, making her father incredible happy on his birthday party at  the space station, he has dealt with Padme leaving town, although not in the most elegant manner, but Iīm sure he will do better from now on since he has realized how foolish he was then. And thanks to Delilah he has discovered casual sex is not for him.

Also, Claire knows all of this (plus some of Martenīs "Family Values"  8-) ) and therefore her comfort zone around Marten is muuuuuuuuuuch wider than with any other male character in the series, maybe with the exception of Clinton, but of course he is her brother and not boyfriend material. It would be nice to see Faye taking care of any possible overprotecting moves he may make, as she has sucessfully fought his creepiness in the past, and he will certainly not publically out Claire to anyone else in the cast, because in all his creepiness he does care a lot for her.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 11 Oct 2014, 14:21
Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".
Ever since I saw that nickname, I've actually been thinking: "Someone should make fanart of her as Little Red Riding Hood". Don't really know why.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Storel on 11 Oct 2014, 15:17
I can think of at least one or two cartoons I've seen about Little Red Riding Hood -- one was directed by Tex Avery, IIRC -- where somebody calls her "Red" for short. Perhaps you've seen them too and subconsciously associated that nickname with LRRH.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 11 Oct 2014, 16:20
I don't think the hood would work very well with red hair(RED red hair that is, rather than the orange hair we call red for reasons). Too monochrome.

I do kinda want to know who gets to be the wolf and hunter though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 11 Oct 2014, 16:24
Huh. I guess that makes sense. Marten would make a rather sorry hunter. But then, so would overprotective Clinton. The wolf, of course, would be Faye. It's only recently that those two got along.

Also, since I'm rereading, I've come across something that could bode well or ill for Marten and Claire: favorite (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1735) Toto (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1737) song (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1739). You could say it's only a valid measure for Faye, but it also preceded problems for Marten and Dora... like, immediately. The same problems that lead to the eventual end for that one.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 11 Oct 2014, 16:38
Ever since I saw that nickname, I've actually been thinking: "Someone should make fanart of her as Little Red Riding Hood". Don't really know why.

I think you're right - I put my attempt in the fan art thread.  More like little red riding hoodie, but what can you do, ya know?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Oct 2014, 17:32
Maybe Jeph has decided itīs about time for Marten to have grown and to be happy, to achieve his newfound goals in ...(Snip)

Characters without conflict are dull. They either need to be conflicted or a source of conflict. Self doubt is a fairly common inner conflict because anything can trigger it, everyone has had it, and it doesn't have to be logical to be believable.

It's not that you can't have a happy character who has compelling inner conflicts. It's just a lot harder.

That said, there's no rule that says the only valid conflicts are romantic--even in a comic whose dynamic tension is almost all relationship based.  It would be interesting to see Marten growing into a stable relationship. That's as challenging as anything else, in real life. And uncharted territory for him. (As good of a g it as he is, he was phoning it in with Dora.) But I'm pretty sure Marten still has a long way to go before reaching Nirvana.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Oct 2014, 18:25
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 11 Oct 2014, 19:20
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).
For good reason, too. Problems in this social circle tend to revolve around each other's relationships and how they relate to their own inner demons. To work through it, one might appear to be taking someone's side over another. Probably just a measure instituted in order to remain impartial.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 11 Oct 2014, 19:38
Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.

Crimson Godd.....oh wait, thats taken already by Pyrrha in RWBY.....nevermind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: DSL on 11 Oct 2014, 21:47
Crimson the Librarian.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tywren on 11 Oct 2014, 21:53
After a few days of thinking, i'm going to have to say i'm not a fan of they way this is shaping up.

I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?

WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Netrunner on 11 Oct 2014, 22:22
After a few days of thinking, i'm going to have to say i'm not a fan of they way this is shaping up.

I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?

WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.

When it clicks and you know you want to be with someone, you just know it. When I met my wife, we were at an anime convention. She was with her husband, and I was with my fiancee. We met, we talked, we had a great time. After the convention, we realized that we had something that was missing from both our relationships. We both took a huge chance. She got a divorce and I broke things off. We've been married 5 years, now. Like I said, sometimes, you just know, and when it happens you either go for it or wonder about it for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 11 Oct 2014, 23:21
After a few days of thinking, i'm going to have to say i'm not a fan of they way this is shaping up.

I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?

WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.

You are, off course, assuming 3 things:


We've not seen anything to say 3 is true but we have plenty of evidence that Marten's issues revolve around 1 & 2.

Yes, he did impose that rule on himself from the start but there is evidence (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2769) that there's more to Marten's freak out about Emily than just that rule.  I suspect that one of the reasons that Emily freaked him out is because he didn't want to ruin things between him and Claire but wasn't willing to admit, even to himself, how he felt about Claire (or how she felt about him).  We see a bit of that in the pub (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2797).  He calls her his favourite intern then backpedals.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the ship would have sailed had Claire answered her phone.  Hearing that Claire talks about him all the time probably helped him realise just how much he meant to her as well.

{edited to correct spelling}

{edit 2 & 3: Corrected logical error in first sentence}
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 11 Oct 2014, 23:57
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).

That was after Dora and Marten broke up, wasn't it? It's significant because Dora started seeing a therapist soon afterwards (Faye insisted with the threat of violence). I think that Faye's therapist decided that Faye's social circle was filled with so many messed-up personalities that she couldn't handle three of them.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 12 Oct 2014, 00:03
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).

That was after Dora and Marten broke up, wasn't it? It's significant because Dora started seeing a therapist soon afterwards (Faye insisted with the threat of violence). I think that Faye's therapist decided that Faye's social circle was filled with so many messed-up personalities that she couldn't handle three of them.

No, it's not.  I've been reading forward from that point and 1795 is the beginning of the incident where they break up.  Dora starts asking Marten about his porn.  A quick check shows that the break up happened on 1799.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Oct 2014, 00:06
WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.

Inconsistency has a consistency all its own. How many times have you heard someone say something like, "I just don't understand (insert gender)!" It usually boils down to an unwillingness or inability to look at things from a different view point.

Marten's behavior makes perfect sense if you accept the possibility that he was simply unaware of direction his feelings were going. He had previously declared that he wasn't going to be banging "his" interns. Yet, from the beginning, he was interested in Claire. It probably wasn't romantic at the start, but she was someone he tended to seek out.

That's called internal conflict. That's how stories get told. The Emily arc serves to put that conflict front and center. Ultimately, Marten is not freaking out because his "intern banging" rule is at risk. He probably freaked because he is too nice--therefore worried he'll hurt Emily's feelings--and because it seems like the wrong intern is interested in him.

HiFranc has it right to suggest Marten may have been in denial right up until he actually had a chance to talk to Claire. Jeph doesn't show us his characters' thoughts often, and leading up to the critical moment, we saw a lot less about what Marten was thinking than usual--mostly because Marty didn't talk to anyone about it.

But we do know that he didn't handle it in an un-Marten like manner. He thought things over to the point that he had a big speech planned. That's totally Marten.

The important point is that Marten's actions only seem like a flip if you assume that he was serious about not dating an intern. I expect Faye is going to be making that point, especially given her concern about Tai finding out. Now that she knows Tai is okay with it, it fair game to razz Marten for overreacting about Emily.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Tub on 12 Oct 2014, 00:09
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical".
Marten never said such a thing. That was Tai (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737) and later even Claire (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2796), but never Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: HiFranc on 12 Oct 2014, 00:16
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical".
Marten never said such a thing. That was Tai (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737) and later even Claire (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2796), but never Marten.

Actually, he did (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2216).  Tai was just throwing his argument back at him.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 12 Oct 2014, 01:13
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?

WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.

Nah, I thinks itīs just Martensīs slightly clumsy way of making clear to himself (along with a lame excuse) that he does not want to date Emily. Actually it is clear for him the moment he answers "thatīs fine" as Tai says "She probably didnīt mean anything by it" in 2373 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737). She also makes sure he knows she would be OK with someone (hinthint) dating an intern.

Also, if Faye has seen Claire has a crush on Marten (and confronts her with that in the bar) then it is only fair to assume that Tai, who works with them every day must have noticed as well, and her reaction to Doraīs SMS in the latest comic makes quite clear that she is outright happy for the two (or was even secretly hoping/plotting for this to happen) which explains strip 2373. It has also been speculated that she may be the only person besides Emily, Marten and Clinton to be aware of Claireīs trans status (since she probably has access to the personnel files) so she could have been secretly plotting this for long. She could intentionally put them on the same shift, make sure they have the same day off, ah, lots of possiblities there to pave the way...

Also, when having crisis wine with Faye later that evening he decides that the best thing about the Emily situation is not to do anything about it, a decision that Faye describes as "Reasonable": in 2769 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2769). And Faye describing anything someone does, specifically when itīs about Marten as "reasonable" is waaaaaaaaay to go.

Though, the morning after the post-bar sofa cuddling with Claire he still needs "pancakes" to process this. A pity Jeph has not shared the whole complexity of his Diner-pancake inducted thoughts with us but only the essence of them right before and after the first kiss with Claire, but maybe some information on that will be revealed sooner or later when Marten and Claire talk. Which they will. A lot I guess (and hope for).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 12 Oct 2014, 01:18
Agreed; in the end, Marten doesn't like Emily on a romantic level. However, being Marten, he wants to be able to find an excuse that allows him to wriggle away without saying so explicitly. Yes, it's a nice sort of moral cowardice; he doesn't want to have to upset Emily by rejecting her. It's just another example of how his personality has the potential to screw up his life sometimes.

Why is unethical, by the way? If Claire were to be recommended for a permanent, paid position and Marten had input into the recommendation, Emily and Gabby could claim that he was simply looking out for his girlfriend. Now, I don't think that Marten would actually be in a position to make such a recommendation or have any input into it - Tai would be the person who makes that call and she's struck me as being very professional underneath her easygoing demeanour (look how she's been managing Marten!). However, he possibility of an accusation of impropriety is there.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Oct 2014, 07:21
You know, I had completely forgotten until someone linked it, but Marten never did say it would be unethical for him to date an intern, only for Tai to do so, because Tai (probably) hired them and has the power to fire them, while Marten just trained them for a bit and has no actual power over them (as far as we know).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Oct 2014, 07:31
You know, I had completely forgotten until someone linked it, but Marten never did say it would be unethical for him to date an intern, only for Tai to do so, because Tai (probably) hired them and has the power to fire them, while Marten just trained them for a bit and has no actual power over them (as far as we know).

2216 - and you are correct, sir. He just said he wasn't thinking about it until Tai pondered about doing it herself.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 12 Oct 2014, 11:57
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)

Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!

SCNR.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 12 Oct 2014, 12:14
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)

Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!

SCNR.

Or found out that was a thing he wanted.

'Marten, this book is two days late. I..I'm going to have to p..punish you'
*Claire turns beet red and runs out of the room in embarrassment*
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: SubaruStephen on 12 Oct 2014, 13:15
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)

Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!

SCNR.

Or found out that was a thing he wanted.

'Marten, this book is two days late. I..I'm going to have to p..punish you'
*Claire turns beet red and runs out of the room in embarrassment*

And now I have this image in my mind of Claire as a naughty librarian... oh, I think I just found the subject for Jimbo's next book!
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 12 Oct 2014, 13:35

Or found out that was a thing he wanted.

'Marten, this book is two days late. I..I'm going to have to p..punish you'
*Claire turns beet red and runs out of the room in embarrassment*

And now I have this image in my mind of Claire as a naughty librarian... oh, I think I just found the subject for Jimbo's next book!

Oh god! What have I done (duckandrun)  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: davedig on 12 Oct 2014, 13:52
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 12 Oct 2014, 14:06
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.
I agree, sounds plausible since she is a friend of Tai and probably still around nearby. OTOH, a lot more of character develpment had gone into Padme, and she also seems to have vanished from the story. Did she ever answer Marten's email from the space station?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Nepiophage on 12 Oct 2014, 14:31
Yes she did. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2195 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2195). And her name is Padma btw.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Rghfrgl on 12 Oct 2014, 14:34
Problem with Delilah showing up is there wouldn't be much point. She wasn't interested in anything more with Marten and Marten's figured out what he wants anyway.

I..guess she could be there to make Claire uncomfortable?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Oct 2014, 14:48
Sorry, naughty librarian role is two webcomics over (http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesium133 on 12 Oct 2014, 14:53
Sorry, naughty librarian role is two webcomics over (http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/).
She does have a similar-sounding name, though. Perhaps with the right (or wrong, depending on perspective) influences (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 12 Oct 2014, 15:13
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.

Agreed; maybe she's the sort who gets possessive if someone she dumped moves on?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Oct 2014, 15:34
Agreed; maybe she's the sort who gets possessive if someone she dumped moves on?

That sub plot is already running with Sven. That doesn't mean Jeph wouldn't double down, but it does make it a little less likely.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: cesariojpn on 12 Oct 2014, 16:02
And now I have this image in my mind of Claire as a naughty librarian... oh, I think I just found the subject for Jimbo's next book!

I think I saw this in a.......nevermind.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: McFace on 12 Oct 2014, 16:15
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.

I would agree with that if only because she has some connection with Tai. As opposed to Padma who shows no sign of returning after her move.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 12 Oct 2014, 17:35
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.

I would agree with that if only because she has some connection with Tai. As opposed to Padma who shows no sign of returning after her move.

The thing is, Marten's relief over that whole mess being over was palpable. Assuming Delilah does show up again, I'm not sure she'd be so much as a blip on his radar (assuming she even remembers his name (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2628), or he remembers her name (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2630)).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 12 Oct 2014, 22:57
She  doesn't have to remember his name; all she needs is sufficient crazy in her head that makes her jealous that he's moved on so quickly.

"It's the principle of it! I don't like being taken for granted!"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 13 Oct 2014, 09:31
She  doesn't have to remember his name; all she needs is sufficient crazy in her head that makes her jealous that he's moved on so quickly.

"It's the principle of it! I don't like being taken for granted!"

Except she's not crazy. She's apathetic toward him, at best. I'd bet that if anything, she'd be relieved that from her perspective, he's not her problem anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: MooskiNet on 13 Oct 2014, 09:38
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Delilah's feelings for Marten are nil, and her thought process that night was basically a decision between banging him and going to sleep alone. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aimless on 13 Oct 2014, 09:52
I really hope she doesn't pop up again and that Jeph's feelings for her are nil :o
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 13 Oct 2014, 10:33
Except she's not crazy.

Well, maybe, maybe not. She has been looking for a boyfriend for a long while, after all. Ever put something back on the shelf, regretted it and come back only to find it has sold out?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 13 Oct 2014, 10:40
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.

Agreed; maybe she's the sort who gets possessive if someone she dumped moves on?

Is it dumping, though, if it was only ever a one-night stand?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Oct 2014, 10:43
It was always a one-night stand for Delilah, but was it a one-night stand for Marten before she told him it was?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: BenRG on 13 Oct 2014, 11:05
It was always a one-night stand for Delilah, but was it a one-night stand for Marten before she told him it was?

I think it was a one-night stand for Marten at first. However, he's not a ONS-type of guy; he's nice enough that the whole thought of "Wham, bam, thank you Ma'am!" is somewhat repugnant to him. He wanted to give Delilah at least the option of attempting a relationship if she so wanted.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 13 Oct 2014, 11:15
Except she's not crazy.

Well, maybe, maybe not. She has been looking for a boyfriend for a long while, after all. Ever put something back on the shelf, regretted it and come back only to find it has sold out?

Sure. Happens all the time (in the more literal sense of your analogy, though it's happened in the more figurative sense you're using, too). But in both cases I recognize that my indecision was my own damn fault and move on.

It was always a one-night stand for Delilah, but was it a one-night stand for Marten before she told him it was?

I think so: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613). I think it wasn't 'til later that he realized a ONS wasn't what he was really looking for. But as Ben alludes to, the regrets after the fact don't change the motivation beforehand. There's probably a TV Trope for the ONS that backfires (I've seen it a couple of times besides here, though I don't remember which shows/comics).
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 13 Oct 2014, 11:30
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)

Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!

SCNR.

I thought you were maybe linking to this this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457) at first.  Just found it in the archives this weekend. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Oct 2014, 11:31
Just because he wanted to go hook up with someone doesn't mean he never wanted to see them again, though.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Platypodes on 13 Oct 2014, 14:24
True, but I think if he really had feelings for her, he would've remembered her name.

He did ask for her number, but I took that as being because, to Marten, that's what you do after you make out with someone, not because he was smitten with her personally.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Oct 2014, 14:25
Well yeah, he probably forgot her name once he realized she forgot his. And yeah, maybe he didn't like her because of who she was, but because he wanted to make out with her more and get to know her better. (shrugs)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tragic_pizza on 14 Oct 2014, 23:26
One of the things that's awesome about this forum is that all the things I wanted to say about Claire/Marten have pretty much been said.

I do have a bit of an issue with the idea that Tai or anyone else could "figure out" that Claire is trans. Honestly, there's no trans-dar, it ain't gonna happen. Besides, Jeph isn't the type to make any character say something as insipid as, "I knew it all along." Not Tai, not even Pintsize.

My prediction is that maybe, maybe a few hundred strips down the line, Claire might share with one of the other characters. I suspect that the response will be similar to Marten's and Emily's responses. Or... maybe not. Because - spoiler - none of them have the right to that information.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 15 Oct 2014, 12:31
Problem with Delilah showing up is there wouldn't be much point. She wasn't interested in anything more with Marten and Marten's figured out what he wants anyway.

I..guess she could be there to make Claire uncomfortable?
Ah, how could a girl who is anti-mainstream enough not to shave her armpits possibly want to make anyone uncomfortable? I also remember her being quite cool about Martenīs proposal for makeouts, so my bet is NO.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 15 Oct 2014, 12:40
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)

Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!

SCNR.

I thought you were maybe linking to this this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457) at first.  Just found it in the archives this weekend.

Hmmmm, I have not gotten this far with my binge-re-re-re-re-re-read yet.  8-) Though, Claire is not actually a dude. Just to avoid any misunderstandings and hurting anyone.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 15 Oct 2014, 12:46
Honestly, there's no trans-dar, it ain't gonna happen.

Do you really believe this to be true? Or are you making a case for how things are in the QCverse, or how you think they should be in real life?

Passing culture and passing privilege may be contemptible manifestations of an amoral, judgemental, cisnormative, objectifying patriarchal cultural apparatus, but that doesn't make it any less relevant to my life when a stranger on the bus is staring at me with death in his eyes telling me "you're a man, right?"
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: eschaton on 15 Oct 2014, 12:56

I thought you were maybe linking to this this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457) at first.  Just found it in the archives this weekend.

Hmmmm, I have not gotten this far with my binge-re-re-re-re-re-read yet.  8-) Though, Claire is not actually a dude. Just to avoid any misunderstandings and hurting anyone.

I wasn't comparing Claire to drag performers.  But I realized re-reading that that the comic had explicitly shown that Martin had some baggage about nontraditional gender displays in his early years he needed to get over.  He was scared of burlesque drag queens.  Hell, he might have associated *that* with being a transwoman until he met Claire.  Or maybe not.  Still, his experience was not altogether positive. 
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 16 Oct 2014, 00:17
Ah, how could a girl who is anti-mainstream enough not to shave her armpits possibly want to make anyone uncomfortable?
That's one of the things I found odd in the US. It's not normal practice here in Australia, yet not to do it is apparently seen as weird in the USA.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tragic_pizza on 16 Oct 2014, 00:25
Passing culture and passing privilege may be contemptible manifestations of an amoral, judgemental, cisnormative, objectifying patriarchal cultural apparatus, but that doesn't make it any less relevant to my life when a stranger on the bus is staring at me with death in his eyes telling me "you're a man, right?"
I am not in any way discounting your personal experience. I know it happens, and it's terrifying.

But is it not true that people can, and do, pass?

I'm way out of my pay grade. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm just thinking that's the way it should be in QC-verse. Please forgive me if I have insulted you in any way.

(Edited to remove an unnecessary word)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ZoeB on 16 Oct 2014, 01:19
But is it not true that people can, and do, pass?
And some standard factory model women don't. But when they get the glares, they have the self-confidence to do the "withering stare" back. Most of them, anyway. It's not as dangerous for them, though there have been unfortunate situations that mean it's not entirely safe for them either. You don't have to be trans to suffer the threat of transphobia, though it helps.

For all women, being too attractive, too traditionally feminine, is dangerous. For trans women, being too traditionally unattractive is even more so. Less so, but still not without risk, for cis women. The number of crones burnt as witches attests to that.

Now we're getting off-topic. This kind of thing really belongs in one of the Trans threads, if I want to discuss it further. Or even a Feminist thread.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: tragic_pizza on 16 Oct 2014, 02:15
Agreed, and thank you for engaging me, and helping correct my thinking.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 16 Oct 2014, 08:31
But is it not true that people can, and do, pass?

I'm 5'8" and wear my hair short and pass 99% of the time. Claire is 5'3" and has overtly feminine hair and probably passes 99.9% of the time. But you sure don't forget that 1% or that 0.1% when it happens.

My point is that a statement like "there's no trans-dar" is utterly false. People point their trans-dar at me all the time, because figuring out "what I am" is a fun game to them. People do this to everyone, all the time, because categorical perception is baked into our genes, and gender policing is baked in to our culture. You can wish the world were better, but saying won't make it so.

Back on topic:

I do have a bit of an issue with the idea that Tai or anyone else could "figure out" that Claire is trans.

Except that this already happened. Marten's reaction of utter un-surprise in Number 2323: Willingly Ignorant (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2323) (heck, the title of the strip!) strongly indicates that he already suspected, but knew enough to wait for Claire to bring it up.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Neko_Ali on 16 Oct 2014, 09:27
hehe.. I had always taken the name of that strip in reference to the last panel, that they would rather not know what Faye and Angus are like when making out. But this explanation makes sense too. It's entirely possible that Marten did figure things out before Claire told him, and had enough sense to be chill and quiet about it. He had a pretty diverse exposure to LGBT people growing up with a gay dad and mom in the porn business. He's talked about knowing drag performers as a kid, it's no stretch at all that he knew some trans people growing up too. (not that the two are the same, but there is some overlap.) He and Tai talked about it as well and he seemed fairly savy then.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: AprilArcus on 16 Oct 2014, 10:15
I would totally read a comic about Henry and Veronica's beard marriage. I imagine they were sort of best friends and artistic collaborators living out of the top floor of Henry's Castro nightclub in the 80s, who had Marten by accident amid the tumult of a drunken cast party for a wildly successful opening. Baby Marten chasing the cats around with age-inappropriate props as comic relief. I would read that all goddamn year long.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Kugai on 16 Oct 2014, 14:16
It'd make a great Sticom/Drama, but what would you call it?

And who'd pick it up?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Oct 2014, 14:59
It'd make a great Sticom/Drama, but what would you call it?

And who'd pick it up?

Showtime would pick it up, but the name would be the sticking point.

Questionable Conquest?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Thrudd on 17 Oct 2014, 06:14
It'd make a great Sticom/Drama, but what would you call it?
And who'd pick it up?
Showtime would pick it up, but the name would be the sticking point.
Questionable Conquest?
Family Ties, Bonds
On The Ropes
Surprise! We're a family.
Any which way
Rule 34
Purple Marten
 :psyduck:
or just name it after the club
Castro's Beard ?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Oct 2014, 07:00
Rule 34.  4chan would sue the pants off those ######.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 17 Oct 2014, 07:50
Rule 34.  4chan would sue the pants off those ######.

Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Aziraphale on 17 Oct 2014, 11:48
Rule 34.  4chan would sue the pants off those ######.

Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?

Italo Calvino did. The book's called "If On A Winter's Night A Traveler." It takes a chapter or so to get past the quirk of reading something in the second person, but it was a good book. :)
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Dalillama on 17 Oct 2014, 12:32
Rule 34.  4chan would sue the pants off those ######.

Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
Don't judge Stross by that book; his other stuff's a lot better.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: davedig on 17 Oct 2014, 12:56
Well Delilah could come back looking for Marten to announce she's 'adult pregnant'!

Now wouldn't that be a swerve.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: kerky on 17 Oct 2014, 14:37
I'm 5'8" and wear my hair short and pass 99% of the time. Claire is 5'3" and has overtly feminine hair and probably passes 99.9% of the time. But you sure don't forget that 1% or that 0.1% when it happens.

My point is that a statement like "there's no trans-dar" is utterly false. People point their trans-dar at me all the time, because figuring out "what I am" is a fun game to them. People do this to everyone, all the time, because categorical perception is baked into our genes, and gender policing is baked in to our culture. You can wish the world were better, but saying won't make it so.
Well I used to live in a big city here in Spain. One nice thing about this city: People donīt give a rat's a** about meeting celebrities from sports and media on the streets, in the cafe where they're having breakfast or in the queue at the supermarket. The city has a bustling GLBT scene, the second liveliest CSD in Spain and a popular gay holiday spot is nearby, so expect to meet more queer (gender- or otherwise) people than in Smalltown, Elsewhere. And you know what I always thought really nice? They give as much as they do about celebrities. I have, of course, spotted transwomen, be at the beginning of the transition, or for whatever other reason not passing too well on the underground, the bus, on the train or all around the city. And guess what? I have hardly seen a giggle, staring or strange reactions. Of course, it does happen, and once is possibly once too many, but I do think 99% of the people know how to behave and do act in a natural, unoffensive way. Now, that makes it "only" 1% left to worry about (and sooner or later they will be extinct or learn and know better). Of course in smaller, less cosmopolitan cities, the situation will be different.

I personally think Claire has little to fear from the regular QC cast. They all have shown an attitude of coolness, tolerance and non-discrimination against all possible sexual orientations and stereotypes that they will not put Claire and/or Marten in an uncomfortable situation about her transexuality, should it become known beyond Emily, Marten, Clinton, Claire's and Clintos's mom and (possibly) Tai so I expect the best intentions and behaviour from all of our regulars, really, I am very optimistic about this.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 17 Oct 2014, 17:54
Rule 34.  4chan would sue the pants off those ######.

Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
Don't judge Stross by that book; his other stuff's a lot better.

Was thinking of checking out Neptune's Children but after reading about a computer virus causing a 3d printer to spit out a bunch of dildos...
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 18 Oct 2014, 18:32
Rule 34.  4chan would sue the pants off those ######.

Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?

I rather enjoyed both Halting State and Rule 34. There's something to being told that YOU are a Scottish, lesbian police officer. Forces you out of your own head. Unless you are a Scottish lesbian police officer. Then it's probably quite normal to take that point of view.

Admittedly, the real difficulty was switching pov. Jumping from being a lesbian cop to being a delusional sociopath can be a bit jarring. And I'll admit, the end of Rule 34 was less satisfying than the end of Halting State.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Dalillama on 19 Oct 2014, 14:25

Was thinking of checking out Neptune's Children but after reading about a computer virus causing a 3d printer to spit out a bunch of dildos...
Gotta say I don't recall that scene from when I read it.  I'm mostly a fan of his series.  The Merchant Princes series is about a New York journalist who discovers that she's related to a clan of people who have the ability to jump from our dimension to another one, and have used it to gain power and wealth.  The Laundry Files follows computer geek, applied necromancer and secret agent Bob Howard in his adventures through the horrors of departmental bureaucracy and cthonian monstrosities from beyond time and space.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Oct 2014, 15:32
Re: second person, when I was younger I was really into Goosebumps (before Goosebumps 2000, fuck that noise), and thus had a bunch of the "choose-your-adventure" books. What's funny is one of them had the protagonist (me, I guess?) de-aged to seven years old...but I was seven when I read that so...yeah.
Title: Re: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Post by: valkygrrl on 19 Oct 2014, 18:25

Was thinking of checking out Neptune's Children but after reading about a computer virus causing a 3d printer to spit out a bunch of dildos...
Gotta say I don't recall that scene from when I read it.  I'm mostly a fan of his series.  The Merchant Princes series is about a New York journalist who discovers that she's related to a clan of people who have the ability to jump from our dimension to another one, and have used it to gain power and wealth.  The Laundry Files follows computer geek, applied necromancer and secret agent Bob Howard in his adventures through the horrors of departmental bureaucracy and cthonian monstrosities from beyond time and space.

it was a scene in rule 34