I wanna see Clairemom and Veronica as the mothers-in-law. :-D
We still have the Dora-Sven fallout waiting to happen as well as the Angus interview situation. Will the arcs merge
Regarding how Mrs A will view Veronica? Well, she can't be that conservative, given Claire's situation.
I could also see Faye wanting Marten's shoulder to cry on (and most of his time), and Claire being all 'back the hell off my man, you had your shot.'
With, of course, Marten stuck in the middle.
I can see claire and Faye arguing in the near future. If Fay and Angus break up, Marten and Claire get together, I imagine Claire will be floating on clouds while Faye would probably feel horrific.
"Just because you are sad doesn't mean I can't be happy!" is an argument I've had and could see happen here. And then poor marten would be stuck in the middle
I'm at a loss to figure out why people think Jim of Secret Bakery fame is the ex. It requires a complete reliance on the overused trope that everyone is related to someone else as there is only the flimsiest evidence to support the contention.I think the person in the original post said Jimbo, not Jim, but then people confused the two. That it's Jim is really out of the question since 1) he would be very young to have a kid Claire's age (if I recall correctly, he's 41, Claire's 24), 2) we know for a fact Sam is his only child as he says so several times in comic. No idea while people discussed the idea so much. (Although it might have been people who hadn't read all of the comic or at least didn't remember all of it - possibly Jimbo was before their time. They were pretty new to the forum.)
I can see claire and Faye arguing in the near future. If Fay and Angus break up, Marten and Claire get together, I imagine Claire will be floating on clouds while Faye would probably feel horrific.
"Just because you are sad doesn't mean I can't be happy!" is an argument I've had and could see happen here. And then poor marten would be stuck in the middle
Claire is also one of the new cast members who takes none of Faye's shit. So there's strong potential for conflict there.
If anything, I think it could be Claire who initiates any conflict. Marten will just want to be there for his friend but, depending on how secure Claire feels in any hypothetical relationship, she may feel threatened by this.So, in other words, exactly a plotline that was done with Dora?
Plot twistI don't think the world is ready for this. And imagine how much sibling bickering this would lead to!
Faye and CLINTON hook up
The details I leave to your vivid imaginations.
Not being familiar with Jimbo is a crime. There have been many, many funny moments in QC, but the one that will make me laugh every single time (literally out loud, as my wife will attest with rolling eyes) is Jimbo's reaction (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2659) to the craft beer menu at the Horrible Revelation.
That said, one of the outcomes of the current Angus Callback arc that I predicted from the start is Faye having a bout of rebound or anxiety sex with either Marten or Sven. The story then would be more about her regretting her weakness and, being Faye, responding to this with random explosions of anger at anyone dumb enough to cross her path.
And I kiinda go against the flow I think, when I don't want Marten and Claire to get together. Why... Well, while Claire as a character is interesting, I really don't want her to show up and 'NOT JUDGE PEOPLE' all the time - I realise that all the characters have flaws which makes them interesting, but Claire telling people that they're stupid or that their interest in books is worth less than hers because it's different gets on my nerves pretty fast. She's good as a secondary character but as a primary?
I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:Has there ever been a week where nothing changes
Has there ever been a week where nothing changes
Yeah, plenty of times.I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:Has there ever been a week where nothing changes
I wish to make a bold prediction that by the end of this week nothing will change:Has there ever been a week where nothing changes
Blushing Claire is going to be my new phone wallpaper... HOW CAN THIS END IN ANYTHING BUT HAPPIES?!?!I can think of a few ways. The most obvious one right now is that we don't exactly know what Claire's thinking right now. We might have an incoming panic attack or something of the sort.
In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.
Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt.
Jesus, my hands are shaking. I mean, that's probably because I didn't eat today, but this also makes my heart race. Which feels weird if one didn't eat for a while.You should eat. And looking at panel one, so should Marten.
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
Yes, but in the short term, it led to banging. And Claire-mom is in the next room.... :psyduck:
In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.
Can you smell the character growth? Because I can!Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt.
Agreed. But I think that Marten will shoot down the professional issue by saying he doesn't care and with Tai as their superior it doesn't really matter (not to mention the research librarians who like to tell workers that they are janitors).
It's a big enough deal that it has a wordless panel all to itself. :-D
All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morning
While I'm Here
What do you guys think of the title for this strip?QuoteWhile I'm Here
Hmm. What does it mean?
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
Unless ativan is involved. It's been mentioned before, but Claire looks like she needs a moment to catch her breath or something.It's a big enough deal that it has a wordless panel all to itself. :-D
This. Precisely this. Anything that happens after that is going to be squee.
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...You're right, it was followed by a WEEK OF GUEST STRIPS :psyduck:
All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morningDo you not have a 7-11/Wawa type store in your country?
"So while I'm here... about last night"
I made an audible gasp for that last panel.
I don't... What?!
My guess is that Marten knows that nothing would ever happen if he just sat around and didn't do anything, and he has been getting better at taking charge of his life lately. Now the question is how Claire will respond to this. Martens feelings seem pretty clear, I doubt he'd do any of this just to tell her "We can't date/I don't want to date you"
in that case he's an oblivious asshole. But to be faire, he seems happy to be there. Almost drunk...
... with love?
Sorry for the wall of text.
Have anyone noticed that Claire mother got curvier?
Have anyone noticed that Claire mother got curvier?
I think it was just the way she was standing before.
Yes, but in the short term, it led to banging. And Claire-mom is in the next room.... :psyduck:
We still have the Dora-Sven fallout waiting to happen as well as the Angus interview situation. Will the arcs merge?
I'm looking forward to Marten developing his new assertiveness.
No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.In some ways, that seems good, but what about workers who are night people? I guess they're right fucked, eh?
Oh god I giggled like an idiot at that last panel.
Go Marten, you surprisingly smooth bastard!
He's more likely to be about as smooth as high-grit sandpaper. Or Claire might have an anxiety attack. Or they may have a day off, and decide to get rather "friendly", and are interrupted with Faye having a crisis, or Pintsize well, just being himself.Oh god I giggled like an idiot at that last panel.
Go Marten, you surprisingly smooth bastard!
But is he Calrissian smooth?
I hate to be that gal, but...does it look like Marten's going for a handshake? Maybe a "well done on not taking advantage of a drunk" handshake?
THE LITTLE HATS
Anything little you can balance on your head can be a LITTLE HAT, YESSSSSSSSSTHE LITTLE HATS
CRAP I USED TO HAVE A LITTLE HAT SOMEWHERE IN MY ROOM I COULD'VE TOTALLY DEFUSED MY OWN CREEPINESS WITH REFERENTIAL HUMOR
My life is a series of mostly inconsequential missed opportunities.
Anything little you can balance on your head can be a LITTLE HAT, YESSSSSSSSSTHE LITTLE HATS
CRAP I USED TO HAVE A LITTLE HAT SOMEWHERE IN MY ROOM I COULD'VE TOTALLY DEFUSED MY OWN CREEPINESS WITH REFERENTIAL HUMOR
My life is a series of mostly inconsequential missed opportunities.
Let's see - first Momo and Dale make pancakes for Marigold, and ....
Now - Clairemom makes pancakes for Marten and ...
PANCAKES - IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN'T DO?
/i want Jeph's recipe for pancakes.
//so does my wife
///or ... is it the syrup?
He also knows that Claire is definitely at risk emotionally right now, and as her friend he wants her to be happy. So he's making his advances politely and openly, trying to make sure there's as little risk of causing a Claire freakout as possible.
The last time we had a character reach for another's hand like that (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1191), it (eventually) ended badly...
You don't have finger nails on your palm. Martenfriend's right hand is reaching for Claire's left.
I agree, that's the problem with not accessing a computer/smartphone until 7am CE(S)T when everybody read the strip 3-4 hours ago.In all seriousness, I like that Marten is taking the emotional lead here. Clearly Claire is freaking out, and we know that she has issues with anxiety. Marten seems to be placing his focus on reassuring Claire/keeping her calm. Definitely an aww moment for me, taking her hand when he sees her panicking is such a powerful gesture. Regardless of which way this is going, Marten definitely appears to be aware that Claire is very vulnerable right now and wants to make sure that he doesn't do anything to hurt her.
Can you smell the character growth? Because I can!Claire is going to be the one who has issues with this - she'll say it's a professional issue, but it will have more to do with her own self doubt.
Agreed. But I think that Marten will shoot down the professional issue by saying he doesn't care and with Tai as their superior it doesn't really matter (not to mention the research librarians who like to tell workers that they are janitors).
The comic hasn't even been up for an hour, and all my thoughts have been ninja'd. CURSE ALL OF YOU.
Also, all the squeeing must be causing dogs to have a the biggest freakout ever. Holy crap.
Well, AFAIK, most 7-11 in Europe are actually open, you know, from 7-ish in the morning until like 11 in the evening*.All the stores are closed, it's 03:34 in the morning
Does Germany not have 7-11?
No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.
Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.
I don't know. I guess the main thing that is throwing me off is that if this is really happening then Marten is in the midst of making an important adult decision about his relationship with Claire and DOESN'T SEEM FREAKED OUT OR HESITANT AT ALL
The QC universe might implode
And thank you for the welcome!
Well it looks positive. I don't want to be a downer, however this could go bad, depending on Claire's reaction. She could:Excellent analysis for us non-shippers. I guess Marten is just trying to calm Claire down. Marten is happy just to be a good friend, and perhaps a regular back-scratcher.
- Jump away like a scalded cat;
- Burst into tears, say it can't happen and then beg Martin to leave;
- Smile gratefully and then launch into the "we're better as friends" speech;
- Claire shakes her head and says: "I'm not ready".
No 7-11 in Germany afaik. No stores which are open at night in general. Worker protection laws and everything.There are exceptions to the protection laws of course: hospital staff, night guards, gas stations, .. and gas stations are allowed to sell snacks and other packaged food. It's quite pricey (so avoid when possible), but if you're ever in germany, at night, and you're hungry: find a gas station on a busy road.
In some ways, that seems good, but what about workers who are night people? I guess they're right fucked, eh?Ahh, sleeping at day, the luxuries of the single student days..
I hate to be that gal, but...does it look like Marten's going for a handshake? Maybe a "well done on not taking advantage of a drunk" handshake?Uh, no ?
Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.Since when are you supposed to kiss HARD ? :?
Well, AFAIK, most 7-11 in Europe are actually open, you know, from 7-ish in the morning until like 11 in the evening*.Cant speak about other countries, but here in germany the shops open around 9 and close about 7 in the evening.
Nevertheless:(click to show/hide)
I just assumed there was an unspoken rule about 'no memes' on the forum.
Since when are you supposed to kiss HARD ? :?
Maybe the kisses will be hard because of the lack of lips? :lol::facepalm: Also, Marten should stay clear of Claire's dangerously sharp nose and chin.
Sorry, but nothing else seemed to be able to convey my thoughts, and squeeing just didn't cut it.I just assumed there was an unspoken rule about 'no memes' on the forum.
Not a strict rule, but a sense of disapproval - which is written. See here: point 6 (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27423.msg1056736.html#msg1056736).
*Cue swelling music*
Hi there, long time lurker, first time poster.Welcome to the madhouse!
My projection for tomorrow is that Marten will squeeze Claire's hand tightly, look deeply into her eyes and say, 'Hey, I'm sorry about yesterday, it wasn't your fault, I was drunk and overly handsy, it won't happen again, we still chill bro?', or something to that effect.If I wanted to say that, I don't think I've have grabbed her hand like he did. That would convey a mixed message.
What I want to happen is the most epic and life changing kiss of all time, followed by a big wedding and thousands of babies.[/pessimism]It won't be as easy as that. "The course of true love never did run smooth." quoth The Bard...
But Jeph's hand drawing technique has deteriorated, he forgot to draw nails this time.Eh, "forgetting a detail" isn't "has deteriorated" until it's a trend. For now I'm going with: "Claire is using the proper waterproof covering for Clinton's hand because: A) He's her little brother and she likes to prank him; B) It leaves no fingerprints and C) she intends to crack the safe in which the Smif library's Victorian Porn (TM) is kept, because that was HER evil plan all along.
But Jeph's hand drawing technique has deteriorated, he forgot to draw nails this time.Uh-hu. "deteriorated" ? Its called artstyle.
Besides, imagine what would happen at the library if they hook up? Fast forward about 30 years, and we have a repeat of this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1133) scene.
BUT GAIZ. WHAT IS STEVE UP TO? THIS IS IMPORTANT GAIZ.
BUT GAIZ. WHAT IS STEVE UP TO? THIS IS IMPORTANT GAIZ.
Blushing Claire is going to be my new phone wallpaper... HOW CAN THIS END IN ANYTHING BUT HAPPIES?!?!
Right, but this isn't real life, it's a quaint alternate reality with talking robots. I stand by my SQUEE
I find myself wondering what Claire's other arm is up to.
And I hardly care if we get a kiss, as long as there is more playing with Claire's hair and snuggling.
I'm still hoping that they decide to date formally before making any formal decisions vis a long-term relationship. This is mostly because I'm enough of an old romantic that the idea of Martin taking Claire out on the town and treating her like a woman whose happiness he values would be a wonderful thing to see and I think it is something that would do her the greatest good.
OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.
Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?
Nonono, you got that wrong. The religious tradition is that they aren't allowed to dance on Good Friday.OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.
Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?
But not after 9 and not on Sunday, because of a combo of worker protection laws and religious traditions
OK, I was fine with what was going on in the comic but now that I'm in the forum I'm confused.
Marten and Claire are going to hold hands and go to a 7-11 in Germany? Wast is dos?
But not after 9 and not on Sunday, because of a combo of worker protection laws and religious traditions
Also I'm not saying this as a mod because it's not against policy, but holy shit I hate that small text gag so much. Just use a spoiler tag, the joke still works and is much less obnoxious.
Marten may be a cool, collected customer for once in his life (and frankly his extreme zen is starting to damage my own calm), but I can see Claire possibly pulling away and/or freakin' out. Stupid anxiety.
So if someone is walking down the street on Good Friday and gets a tune in their head and starts dancing a little, do they get a fine or something?
We really need a Questionable Content Kremlinology thread as a home for minute close analysis of art as well as Jeph's Tumblr and Twitter posts for clues as to the future direction of the strip!
Is that country-wide, or only in some states? And I must say, gawds, I wouldn't want someone else's religion to *EVER* dictate what I can or cannot do unless it harmed another.So if someone is walking down the street on Good Friday and gets a tune in their head and starts dancing a little, do they get a fine or something?
Well, from what I know it's only applicable to events, which also includes clubs, bars, etc. But then you can be fined with up to 1500. It's probably only given to the person who organised it though.
Marten may be a cool, collected customer for once in his life (and frankly his extreme zen is starting to damage my own calm), but I can see Claire possibly pulling away and/or freakin' out. Stupid anxiety.
In re: "Cool, calm, collected Marten", I submit the following: The Talk, Part 10 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509)
Marten was incredibly cool about the whole thing. And, by the way, this was where the comic completely turned.
Also...who handshakes a friend?
All of this has seemingly happened before Marten has met with Emily again :psyduck: :psyduck:
What will happen?
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.
You're not the first person to bring up the handshake angle :roll:
'Claire, about last night. I think we should just be professional acquaintances'
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual?She said she liked seeing Marten shirtless.
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.
She have some serious mental issues, including a alarming (and potentially dangerous) lack of sense of consequence.Wait, what?
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual?She said she liked seeing Marten shirtless.
She paid to grab Steve's butt.
That said, am I the only one that thinks Emily is borderline asexual? She just doesn't seem to have responded in that way to anyone! It just doesn't seem to be something that is in her mind.
The next three weeks (minimum) the issue is left hanging for us.
...
Only after that will the aftermath be revealed.
I think most likely, Marten will admit to feelings he has for Claire and will say that if she's nervous or trepidatious, he can give her time until she's ready to make that step. To which Claire will interrupt him mid-sentence with a kiss.
Also, have we discussed what Marten and Clairemom might have talked about before Claire got up? She said that Claire talks about Marten all the time and Martens smile might indicate that Clairemom basically gave her approval or gave marten the confidence he needs to move forward.
In strip #2736 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2736), I had a theory that Emily grabbed Marten's butt :mrgreen:I find myself wondering what Claire's other arm is up to.
This is Questionable Content, can her hand really be anywhere but on his butt?
In strip #2736, I had a theory that Emily grabbed Marten's buttI can see booth arms in #2736. If Emily grabbed something that was not the butt.
Her reach was similar to Delilah's :roll:No, Delilah was definitely grabbing something else (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2627).
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out. She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment. Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.
I'm not sure where people are getting this whole "shaking her hand" think from, or that his hand grasp is in no way an intimate gesture.
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out. She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment. Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.
In other words, re-using the arrangement that Marten had with Faye.
Seriously, if the next comic isn't just Marten saying, "Let's do this," then kissing her so hard the windows and doors blow out, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.Since when are you supposed to kiss HARD ? :?
Only one thing:
What are the signs of Claire isn't "not ready"? This is a very wild guess because she is trans in my opinion. In our last physical interaction there is only "you are drunk and will regret this" ant I think anyone would freak out a little with this sudden breakfast as well.
More effective would be to simply force a minimum text size. There's currently no facility to do this, but I'm already investigating this possibility of creating one.
My prediction:
Marten clasps Claire's hands together.
Marten: "Look, I'm sorry I was acting like a drunk idiot last night. I took some liberties I shouldn't have, and I know that in our current working situation, it wouldn't be morally proper. But I really think you're an awesome person and I hope that after your internship ends, we can start dating then."
Claire: "That's really reasonable."
Marten: "You were a good influence."
<beat panel>
GIANT KISSES AND MAKEOUTS IMMEDIATELY ENSUE.
Claire <disheveled and grinning>: "Screw being reasonable."
Marten <disheveled and panting>: "Y-yes ma'am!"
Crack prediction for distant future:
First meeting between Veronica and Mrs A gets awkward (for the children) when it turns out the two worked the same strip club when they were in college together. Mrs A met Clinton and Claire's dad and 'went straight' whilst Veronica's life just got wilder and crazier until she woke up one morning, realised it had been all empty and then emailed Jim that she wanted to meet him face-to-face.
"Vee!"
"Lex!"
"SQUEEEEEE!!!" ((Sis-hugs happen whilst Marten and Claire look on in amazement))
Like others have pointed out, the fact that Marten is being so unbelievably zen and that he accepted Clairemom's invitation to come over for breakfast leads me to believe he is not about to say "let's just be friends." My guess is he'll say something along the lines of indicating that he's open to the possibility of something between them but not wanting to rush/pressure Claire if she needs time to figure out what's best for her.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383I miss the messy textured hair look
Whilst I hope that they do start dating, my prediction is that Marten stresses that he likes her company whatever happens and asks Claire out. She indicates that she feels uncomfortable with that at the moment. Marten reminds her that he's OK being friendds and then they come to an agreement that Marten will wait until she is comfortable with it.
In other words, re-using the arrangement that Marten had with Faye.
The look of utter panic on her face in the penultimate panelIs basically the same in the last three trips. It's a awkward situation. Mom, pyjamas and a unresolved crush. Plus she being introvert and all.
the fact that she told Faye that a relationship would be wrong due to their close working relationshipNot means "not ready", only means she have restrictions because the professional situation.
and, from what everyone else says, this would be her first relationship.Also not means "not ready".
The next three weeks (minimum) the issue is left hanging for us. Claire and Marten are shown going about their usual business with perfectly normal expressions on their faces. They interact pretty much as they did prior to this night out. None of the other characters comment on any changes there as there are other things occupying their minds (the Winslow/Pintsize/Momo/May .mp4 that is suddenly making the rounds, or the return of the Vespavenger).That would be Awesome.
Only after that will the aftermath be revealed.
I think she kissed him and then said "smooch".
Except that was clearly a sound effect, while "smooch" was in a speech bubble :roll:I think she kissed him and then said "smooch".
Or it could be like Sven's "Sheen" (sorry, can't find the damn strip). Using a word you wouldn't usually use in a place where you'd usually put, say, a "Poof" or a "Whoosh," for instance.
EDIT: Found it. http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1078 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1078)
I'm not sure where people are getting this whole "shaking her hand" think from, or that his hand grasp is in no way an intimate gesture.
If you look at a google image search for 'handshake' (http://tinyurl.com/nrp7wsc)then you might see the same similarities that I do.
Sure...it's still intimate, but two hands by themselves in that orientation serve as sort of a rorschach when isolated. There's a delightful ambiguity.
Well I guess I just got told.I'm not surprised something like that exists, but still, what even.
Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
Sorry. That specimen escaped from the lab and started breeding.Well I guess I just got told.I'm not surprised something like that exists, but still, what even.
Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
Well I guess I just got told.I'm not surprised something like that exists, but still, what even.
Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
Well I guess I just got told.
Now go look at some worst cats (http://worstcats.tumblr.com/).
Did the site just break? Current comic refuses to load!
This makes me irrationally happy.
This makes me irrationally happy.
I'm feeling that too - but there is nothing irrational about it. In a world (our world) that is seeming to fall ever more deeply into division and horror, Jeph is offering us a vision of honest, inclusive love between two people - or at least, the potential for that kind of love. I've been coming to this strip for a dose of hopefulness for many weeks now, never more so than today :-)
For those of you who can't see the comic yet: http://imgur.com/J6XI0NE
Apparently the next comic in line has also been uploaded, but I figure that one can wait.
Or just click here: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807
I tried that, it didn't work at first. Rewriting it to 2808 let me see the comic from the future though. >_>
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0d55f965089318e89f6e4eeb135660a/tumblr_mryooxWFcK1qm34qno1_400.gif)
I don't know. Thoughts?
Okay, so, I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but this is literally the only reason I've come to the forums.
I'll preface by saying I'm pleased with the recent developments.
I'll conclude by asking if we now where Claire is in her transition process. As far as I'm aware we just know that she's been taking the hormones. This confuses me, because though it's cool that Marten is cool with her status, a major aspect of Marten's relationships have been sexual. So, either Claire has had her operation and I missed it or Marten is not as straight as I thought, or he's just cool with being cuddle buddies in the meantime.
I don't know. Thoughts?
Also, what do you guys make of the title: "Nose Grows Some." Is this a Pinocchio reference? Is Marten lying?
My apparently ignorant comment. :/
Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.
Oh, and she does, indeed, have lips. :) :claireface:
Also, what do you guys make of the title: "Nose Grows Some." Is this a Pinocchio reference? Is Marten lying?
Ok, I might be silly here- has Jeph ever posted two pages at once before?
My apparently ignorant comment. :/
Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.
Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.
/AGREE(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0d55f965089318e89f6e4eeb135660a/tumblr_mryooxWFcK1qm34qno1_400.gif)
THIS ALL OF THIS SO MUCH OF THIS.
I just tried and it worked.Well, 2808 gone down.Not quite. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/2808.png)
EDIT
No, not reachable by interface, but the direct link stills working.
There's only one question left.
Does he love her enough to laugh at her puns? :claireface:
So in other words, Marten is wrong.
I hope this doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.
That's what I meant, I was hoping the second tonight wasn't tomorrow's, but I guess it was.So in other words, Marten is wrong.
I hope this doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.
Oh, we will. Just some of us have seen it already.
First question.
This double release, most probably was a easter egg or a human failure?
Next week: Padma returns and a love triangle is formed.
Also, this is Claires first kiss right?
That's one hell of a good first kiss.
That's what I meant, I was hoping the second tonight wasn't tomorrow's, but I guess it was.So in other words, Marten is wrong.
I hope this doesn't mean we won't have a comic tomorrow.
Oh, we will. Just some of us have seen it already.
My apparently ignorant comment. :/
Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.
Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.
What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100 :claireface:
Also, this is Claires first kiss right?
That's one hell of a good first kiss.
Insert Princess Bride quote here.
Also, this quote from the one and only Bill Watterson, which I think hold especially true given what's I've seen in the forum since I joined a week or two ago: "A comic strip takes just a few seconds to read, but over the years it creates a surprisingly deep connection with readers... Even in a few panels you can develop characters and express an outlook on life as the months go by and before you know it, readers are seriously invested in the world you've created... Readers do form an emotional bond with your strip."
Cue the Clintorpedo.Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\
First question.
This double release, most probably was a easter egg or a human failure?
I'm waiting when the "professional relationship" will kick. Probably when Marten tell to Tai go back home and Faye asks if he banged Claire yesterday.
Failure: Jeph published by accident.
Easter egg: Jeph is being generous to the feed subscribers and forum members who will have the delight of knowing the tomorrow strip.
Cue the Clintorpedo.Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\
To be honest, I'm not sure we will be seeing Clinton. I just wanted to make the nautical reference...Cue the Clintorpedo.Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\
Clairemom will tell him to "stuff it, that Marten boy is a nice one."
Cue the Clintorpedo.Ugh, not looking forward to that, and I'm not even sure exactly how Clinton will be an asshole, but I'm sure it'll happen. :-\
Clairemom will tell him to "stuff it, that Marten boy is a nice one."
Did anyone else catch Comic 2808 getting posted on accident?I'm guessing you didn't read the thread before posting? ::)
Did anyone else catch Comic 2808 getting posted on accident?I'm guessing you didn't read the thread before posting? ::)
#2808 is still up for meIt's there, but hitting Next from 2807 won't bring you there.
Tai will give him crap, I'm sure of it, but purely in a friendly sense.
#2808 is still up for me, and despite not being The Kiss(tm) might actually be more squeetastic.
I'm still not happy about this. Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic.
A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status). In strip time, it was only yesterday! Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat.
I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person. Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this. There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.
Cue the Clintorpedo.For a moment I missed the "n"
Only 6?
This is even more true for me, since Claire coming out as trans gave me the courage to do the same >_>
I'm still not happy about this. Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic.
A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status). In strip time, it was only yesterday! Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat.
I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person. Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this. There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.
It was a nerdy joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitMy apparently ignorant comment. :/
Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.
Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.
What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100 :claireface:
I'd rather not speculate on Pintsize (I don't think we ever established where he got the Fleshlight). Momo and May's robo bits are already canon, if memory serves.
eschaton has a point.....It would be funny if it actually happened just like that and them Marten does show up in her home and does declare for her. But it was all in a clumzy shy marten way.
But then again, I kept expecting jeph to pull the rug out by having claire wake from a dream all blushing and whatnot going "oh.... it was all just a dream......"
It was a nerdy joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitMy apparently ignorant comment. :/
Greetings, new person! We don't generally speculate on Claire's ladybits for the same reason we don't speculate on other characters' *bits... it's not generally considered polite (and can come off as downright demeaning). Head over to the Trans* thread and acquaint yourself with it. There's some very useful information in there if you're genuinely interested in getting up to speed.
Thank you so much for that. I didn't realize. I apologize if I offended anyone.
What about Pintsize Momo and May robot bits? 00101010101001000111100 :claireface:
I'd rather not speculate on Pintsize (I don't think we ever established where he got the Fleshlight). Momo and May's robo bits are already canon, if memory serves.
I'm still not happy about this. Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic.
A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status). In strip time, it was only yesterday! Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat.
I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person. Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this. There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.
Man, I find myself wishing I could make that speech. What Marten did there is not something easy to do for most mortals.Speaking form experience, I've found it much easier to ask somebody out (or make any sort of romantic or sexual move on them) when you have a pretty good feeling they'll reciprocate positively. When you're largely unsure, as Angus was with Faye, then it's still worth it, you just have to work up a lot more courage.
I do have to wonder where his attraction to Claire ever started, though, because it wasn't particularly hinted to at all until this point (which is maybe what Jeph wanted?)I suspect even Marten wasn't fully aware of it as it was brewing
Padma... he was never comfortable with Padma
[picture]You didn't happen to have that prepared beforehand, did you? :mrgreen:
My residence is going to be treated to this for the next little while. Sorry for the crappy drawing my hands are literally shaking
SOSlow
I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808
Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.
It's pretty adorable though. Can you hold out?
SOSlow
I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808
Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.
It's pretty adorable though. Can you hold out?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Poke
If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.
So what you're saying is: he's acting too formulaic and not like his true self?
Claire? She trusts him, he trusts her, they're comfortable around each other, and in a moment of vulnerability for both of them (Marten being drunk, Claire having been forced to think about it by Faye), they connect. Claire realizes that she's been attracted to Marten all along, Marten realizes that he's liked Claire all along, and then the next morning... (And, the tension has probably been there on Claire's part since the lake party, and Marten's part since the wedding, I think.)
(http://bogleech.com/pokemon/slowpoke.png) :claireface:Feye's head looked too much as monster poop.
You didn't happen to have that prepared beforehand, did you? :mrgreen:
Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 slides, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something. There should have been some hand-wringing involved. Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.He can't do this without outing Claire or just faking half of the drama.
Slow...bros...bros...bros... :claireface:SOSlow
I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808)
Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.
It's pretty adorable though. Can you hold out?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Poke
(http://bogleech.com/pokemon/slowpoke.png) :claireface:
I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning. This is just so disappointing to me. Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently.Time to mutter about quantum mood states and the observer effect.
Yeah. Honestly it feels like fanservice to me. Jeph knew it would be popular, so he decided to do it (probably around 3-4 weeks ago). To the extent there was any foreshadowing, it was just so minor compared to what Jeph set up regarding Faye and Dora.
I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning. This is just so disappointing to me. Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently.
Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 strips, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something. There should have been some hand-wringing involved. Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.
He can't do this without outing Claire or just faking half of the drama.
And besides, the thing happened naturally. There was no conscientious plot to freak him out.
You and I are in the same boat, then. The amount of people who were apparently not only happy about this new couple, but were eagerly waiting upon it for several months, really took me off guard.
Hmm, I see your point but... there's always a 'but', isn't there? To me, that description seems more like a set of character quirks, rather than a depiction of actual character. I'm reading this arc as signifying some real growth on Marten's part - which isn't to say that the lovable/infuriating behaviours have gone for good, but that he may now have some measure of control over them. A character becoming more than he or she has been in the past, in response to new challenges, seems acceptable. To me at least - everyone is welcome to their own opinion on this :-)
And, Marten sticks to a course of action once he decides on it. If he decided on it, why bother Faye, Steve, or Tai, and also end up outing Claire, something she specifically requested he not do unless directly asked about it? He had nobody to talk to about it except Clinton, and let's face it, Marten's not gonna ask Clinton about that. (He didn't know about Emily knowing, and let's face it, Marigold or Pintsize would be a better source of relationship advice than Emily. Or even Clinton would be a better source, although not about that particular relationship.)Don't rule out the Emily-as-confidante possibility yet. She has a way of being that embraces and seems to embody going with the flow. Might possibly give the best advice if she's caught in the right mood.
Also, as far as not feeling comfortable with Padma... he (and Padma, for that matter) were having an "oh shit, this is bad" reaction to them falling for one another, that ultimately resulted in them shutting each other out.
SO
I just wanted to point out that tomorrow's (Wednesday's) comic has also been uploaded, and if you have no self control, you can access it by manually typing in the URL or clicking the link below
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808
Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.
It's pretty adorable though. Can you hold out?
Jeph Jacques.
You.
Magnificent.
Bastard.
Now I will have to find a redhead as cute as Claire. I was soooo happy being a single guy and you had to ruin it.
Well played, sir, well played.
I'm still not happy about this. Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic.
A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status). In strip time, it was only yesterday! Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat.
I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person. Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this. There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.
You're missing the point.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)
Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.
But again, how many days ago in comic time was the Emily Kiss arc? Maybe 2 weeks? Possibly less? Seems like a hell of a lot of growth in a short period of time, given the response was pretty much "classic Marten."
Sorry to pull away from all the squeeing but just a small question: is Claire still an intern?As is Marten. There's no supervisor/underling relationship to violate here.
You're missing the point.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)
Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.
Va-va-va-VOOM!Marten I'm pretty sure is an actual employee of the library and not an intern. He's not a librarian but they still pay him and the fact he's been there for a while means he at least has seniority over them, which can lead to some murky circumstances if things go south.Sorry to pull away from all the squeeing but just a small question: is Claire still an intern?As is Marten. There's no supervisor/underling relationship to violate here.
That was probably addressed in the big speech he decided not to give. I'm sure it'll be addressed (and possibly stressed over) at some point. Tai will probably have some really unhelpful thoughts to contribute.I suppose. I guess I just took his little post liquor speech of "I'm telling Emily that it's inappropriate for an employee to date an intern" too much at face value when he really meant "I'm not into Emily enough to disregard the employee/intern thing". :p
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.
Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.
Are evil genius babies one of the bad things?What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.
Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.
It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.
Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.
Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.
It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.
Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.
And the kid would be handsome!What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.
Also, that reminds me of this http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2379). I liked the original version more, where Mrs Vance tells Claire about how Marten is a prime age for having children, and how Marten and Claire's babies would be beautiful.
It should be possible with current real world technology. In case of Tai and Dora they could get a sperm donation from a relative father or brother to fertilize her partner egg. In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.
Now if you want specifically to mix genes directly from the individuals in question them it is also possible but there is a great chance of bad things happening.
You do realize you suggested Tai carry Sven's child, don't you? SVEN? *shudders*
I want strips with Tai rolling her eyes as they try and fail miserably to keep it a secret at work.
Which I won't get because Marten will immediately tell her and even if he didn't Faye would tell Dora who'd tell Tai.
But I still want to see it.
Emily's kiss -> wine with Faye -> hangover => Then day 1Interesting, you used a term that is unique to one language. More specifically a variant from one country. Have this word becoming more popular on the internet?
hangover -> Angus' audition -> missed flirt in library -> bar -> "cafuné" => Then day 2
Pancakes -> Day 3
There is not any space for a hidden space of time, the Emily's kiss was the day before yesterday in comic time.
Well, 20 posts, my OCD is kicking me out of this for almost ten hours.
A+
Emily's kiss -> wine with Faye -> hangover => Then day 1
hangover -> Angus' audition -> missed flirt in library -> bar -> "cafuné" => Then day 2
Pancakes -> Day 3
There is not any space for a hidden space of time, the Emily's kiss was the day before yesterday in comic time.
Well, 20 posts, my OCD is kicking me out of this for almost ten hours.
Looks like Jeph had a bit of a change of heart. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217)
Also, <insert squee here>.
Also also, as weird as it may sound, the fact that I've been single for over three years seems to make Clairten even more exciting for me. I guess the idea that someone like Marten (fictional though he may be) can get girl as awesome as Claire makes me feel like I have a chance too.
...that sounded much less pathetic in my head. :psyduck:
This is even more true for me, since Claire coming out as trans gave me the courage to do the same >_>Oo, I missed this at first. Congrats/high fives for you Miaboop! :claireface:
Looks like Jeph had a bit of a change of heart. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2217)
Also, <insert squee here>.
Also also, as weird as it may sound, the fact that I've been single for over three years seems to make Clairten even more exciting for me. I guess the idea that someone like Marten (fictional though he may be) can get girl as awesome as Claire makes me feel like I have a chance too.
...that sounded much less pathetic in my head. :psyduck:
Do you at least talk to people?(click to show/hide)
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you ! :-D
Wow; after Faye/Angus and Marigold/Dale, this was refreshingly simple and drama-free. It even beats Dora/Tai, and the only drama there was going on one date with Jim (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1945) first.
Dorapocalypse? Don't you mean, the alpacalypse? :claireface: :claireface:Wow; after Faye/Angus and Marigold/Dale, this was refreshingly simple and drama-free. It even beats Dora/Tai, and the only drama there was going on one date with Jim (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1945) first.
It's the calm before the storm. Now that we have a new happy couple it's time for Angus to move away and for the Dorapocalypse.
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you ! :-D
Maybe its easier to talk about horrible things than happy ones sometimes - or big goofy grins instead of words, words, words :-D
I think that was sarcasm bro.
Do you at least talk to people?(click to show/hide)
Only 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you ! :-D
Dorapocalypse? Don't you mean, the alpacalypse? :claireface: :claireface:
Well, he tried making the first move with Lt. Potter as well.
So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?
So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?
Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.
Actually it was Tai who brought ethics into it http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737 and Marten doesn't look happy when she does. Could be he was thinking of Claire at the time.
So because we saw two strips today does that mean we won't be getting one tomorrow?
Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.
Note that if you click that link, you won't have anything new to read tomorrow.
IIRC when Marten and Dora united, the thread about it had hit 35 pages in no time. :-DOnly 10 pages ? You should feel ashamed of yourself, all of you ! :-D
Maybe its easier to talk about horrible things than happy ones sometimes - or big goofy grins instead of words, words, words :-D
I think that was sarcasm bro.Hey ! I was joking around ! Not sarcastic ! I even put the right smiley there !!!
Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.Hmm I only saw one strip today.
Revealing tomorrow's strip on the site was probably a technical glitch, so yes, we won't get a new one tomorrow, barring another glitch.
Hmm I only saw one strip today.
I think genetically speaking a father would produce a genetically closer child to what would be a child from the couple.
I think genetically speaking a father would produce a genetically closer child to what would be a child from the couple.
The father shares exactly half of the genes of his child, the brother shares on average half of the genes of his sister. In either case on average half the genes passed on would be genes shared with the prospective parent.
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.
The technology that Ellicott-Chatham is working on may only apply when at least one partner can produce eggs. Real-world technology exists to fertilize an egg without sperm (although I don't believe it's been proven to be viable yet), and has since 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stm
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...
Of course invisible self-aware fighter-bombers, anthropomorphic AIs and town-sized permanently-crewed space stations with artificial gravity are also absurdly difficult and expensive, yet E-C seem to have achieved them.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on. :-D
What worries me is that the technology to allow Tai and Dora, and Claire and Marten now, to have a reasonable number of babies isn't ready. Their kids will be totally adorable. Ellicott-Chatham Technologies better hurry up.It's coming soon here though. One generation, tops.
Gothenburg, Sweden: The parents of the first baby born to a woman who had a womb transplant say they hope they can be an inspiration to others struggling with infertility.http://www.smh.com.au/world/woman-with-womb-transplant-marvels-at-baby-20141007-10rjo3.html#ixzz3FSVvJis5
After what they describe as a rollercoaster of a journey, the unnamed Swedish couple finally became parents last month, when the mother gave birth to a healthy but premature baby boy. For the couple, making history was an afterthought.
"Yes, we're the first to do this, but that's not the important thing," she said during an interview at their home, in an undisclosed part of Sweden. "I want people to know that what they think is impossible can happen."
To mark their baby's birth as a victory over their difficult journey to parenthood, they named him Vincent, meaning "to conquer".
Cradling her sleeping young son, she said she still could not believe she was finally a mother, after being told at 15 that she had no womb and would never carry her own children. Now 36, she was one of nine women to receive a transplanted womb last year in a groundbreaking trial led by Dr Mats Brannstrom, a professor of gynaecology and obstetrics at the University of Gothenburg and Stockholm IVF.
Abstracthttp://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/507234/abs/
Stem cells are undifferentiated cells that are present in the embryonic, fetal, and adult stages of life and give rise to differentiated cells that make up the building blocks of tissue and organs. Due to their unlimited source and high differentiation potential, stem cells are considered as potentially new therapeutic agents for the treatment of infertility. Stem cells could be stimulated in vitro to develop various numbers of specialized cells including male and female gametes suggesting their potential use in reproductive medicine. During past few years a considerable progress in the derivation of male germ cells from pluripotent stem cells has been made. In addition, stem cell-based strategies for ovarian regeneration and oocyte production have been proposed as future clinical therapies for treating infertility in women. In this review, we summarized current knowledge and present future perspectives and challenges regarding the use of stem cells in reproductive medicine.
The technology that Ellicott-Chatham is working on may only apply when at least one partner can produce eggs. Real-world technology exists to fertilize an egg without sperm (although I don't believe it's been proven to be viable yet), and has since 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stm
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...
Of course invisible self-aware fighter-bombers, anthropomorphic AIs and town-sized permanently-crewed space stations with artificial gravity are also absurdly difficult and expensive, yet E-C seem to have achieved them. I've seen things in the strip that suggest a transition in the QC-verse might involve the use of nanorobots to restructure the subject's body in ways a RL transition could never do without hideously expensive re-constructive surgery and organ transplants over a period of several years. However, I think discussion of that would be out of place due to forum rules.
If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.
One could argue it's bad writing if you have a sudden divergence in a plot, with the explanation that important developments happened off page.
It also just doesn't make sense considering Marten shares drama on the littlest things, like Emily kissing him on the cheek, with multiple friends.So what you're saying is: he's acting too formulaic and not like his true self?
Yeah. Honestly it feels like fanservice to me. Jeph knew it would be popular, so he decided to do it (probably around 3-4 weeks ago). To the extent there was any foreshadowing, it was just so minor compared to what Jeph set up regarding Faye and Dora.
I mean, I've been reading QC since almost the beginning. This is just so disappointing to me. Maybe it wouldn't have been as disappointing to me if I didn't start reading the forums again, because I would have had no idea that people were rooting for this, and probably would have perceived it differently.Claire? She trusts him, he trusts her, they're comfortable around each other, and in a moment of vulnerability for both of them (Marten being drunk, Claire having been forced to think about it by Faye), they connect. Claire realizes that she's been attracted to Marten all along, Marten realizes that he's liked Claire all along, and then the next morning... (And, the tension has probably been there on Claire's part since the lake party, and Marten's part since the wedding, I think.)
As I said, there's plenty of reason for it to happen, I just don't like how it happened. Marten should have bolted out of bed, tried to talk to Faye about what happened for 2-3 strips, maybe tried to talk about it with Steve or Tai, and then done something. There should have been some hand-wringing involved. Maybe not about the trans thing, but something.
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on. :-DA+
Well, after the comic was posted the thread grew by four pages in under four hours; that was about one post a minute. Now that the US is waking up, I expect the rate to increase again.
So, what are we calling this? The Big Squee? The Squeepocalypse? We need to settle this before we can move on. :-D
interesting that with claire, martin seems to have none of the boss/intern hangups he professed to have with emily.
Really, the crowning moment of heartwarming for this arc is Claire's little smile in Strip 2808, panel 3. She's suddenly let herself believe that this is really happening and suddenly the day and life itself has totally changed for her.
#2808 is still up for me, and despite not being The Kiss(tm) might actually be more squeetastic.
2808 is/was/will have been/whilom haven been pitch-perfect. Am I the only one who tried to see if 2809 was there too?I'm still not happy about this. Not unhappy about the relationship mind you, but just unhappy about Marten's actions over the last few weeks of the comic.
A few weeks back, Claire tried to flirt with Marten, and it went over his head entirely, causing him to instead self-reflect about being at the library (and Tai's status). In strip time, it was only yesterday! Then Marten got replaced with some doe-eyed constantly smiling chill dude who somehow is doing all he can to keep the ship afloat.
I know people chalk it up to character growth, but frankly it seems like Marten has been replaced by a pod person. Not to say that Marten couldn't, or wouldn't hook up with Claire, but not like this. There has been "no Marten" to speak of in the last two weeks - you could have subbed in any random dude and the dialogue would have made just as much sense.
If you start from the assumption that he's only thought about it in the last couple of days (comic time), sure it'd be jarring. But he's had much longer to think about it -- at least since the two of them dozed off in the same bed after the wedding -- and if you look at it in that light, it makes a lot more sense.
I do share eschalon's feelings on this one; the whole thing looks too rushed/unreal. First Marten craves pancackes to clean a drunken night away, then he's eating at Claire's house, then you get some odd explanation as to why he ended up at Claire's house in the first place.
And now ... Since the invention of the kiss, there have only been five kisses that were rated the most passionate, the most pure.
I don't know, I just don't know.
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764
This is going to give someone a heart attack. It's finally happening after so much suspense. I've been waiting for this since claire was first introduced. :mrgreen: Jeph is giving people what they want. I'll be heartbroken when they inevitably break up. No couples last forever in QC.
My mental soundtrack for this kiss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764
So then I'm the only one who went with the old standby?
This calls for TMBG.
You mean like the Marten in 2666? Which led to 2672, and which was immediately followed by a surprise visit from his mother to go on a date, which led to 2702, with some important advice from Mom in 2703. Which was followed later by Marten's field trip with Emily and Samantha, which led to a momentary confusion about Emily's possible interest and wondering why it freaked him out so much (2769).
The relationship between Claire and Marten has been a slow burn ever since Claire came out to him and ever since the wedding. He's actually become closer friends with Claire than everybody from the library, including Tai. So, when they both got a little drunk and Claire revealed her crush to him and then pulled back, Marten finally realized that Claire might see him more than as a friend. After Marten, in his words, "processed" what happened and what he now knows about Clarie's feelings (basically, he hit pause and did his mulling about the possibilities), he decided to take the risk and call Claire. Yeah, he missed Claire's attempt at flirting, but don't you think that happens a lot, with Marten and most people in general?
Marten's character been finding a direction for a long time now, ever since screwing up with Padma. Yeah, it might be hard to notice, because QC has become a large ensemble comic, but it's definitely there.
In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...
However, without ovaries to produce an egg, this becomes harder. (IIRC, essentially what has to be done is, get a donor egg, REMOVE the DNA from it, add the DNA from one sperm (better make sure it's an X somehow, too, you don't want to end up with a YY baby), which would be absurdly difficult. Then fertilize that egg.) I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but...
And then you still have the issue of mitochondrial DNA, which sperm don't carry...
Yeah, recently I found a blog by an aspie writer and she sais that is is a perfect despiction of an aspie train of thought.Do you at least talk to people?(click to show/hide)
Is that Watamote? (I've watched part of the anime, but wasn't aware of a manga.)
You are wrong in two points.In case of Claire and Marten, Claire's mother could serve as surrogate mother and egg donor. Things like this are not new and have happened before.
Clairmom probably doesn't have viable eggs any longer. Most women cannot get pregnant via their own eggs past age 44, and I'm guessing she's at least a few years older than that.
You're missing the point.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LGK3SiFBdYs/VDNlc-e7ReI/AAAAAAAAYus/wqWkTGpV2nk/s1600/PANCAKES.png)
Warning - while you were typing 8542 new squees have been squeeed. You may wish to review your post and add squee.
This is butter AND honey/maple syrup?
You in the north hemisphere are very strange people...
The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them, then provides a carafe of syrup to dip in. It is simultaneously too much and perfection.Wouldn't that make them non-vegan? :?
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone?
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone? Will it still be tomorrow's comic, or was it some sort of mistake that will never be posted and never be canon now?
And if the latter is the case, is it screen-capped somewhere?
The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them, then provides a carafe of syrup to dip in. It is simultaneously too much and perfection.Wouldn't that make them non-vegan? :?
That's what I was seriously expecting from Martin anyway. Becoming a grownup. And that's why I'm a bit let down if, as people said, this is what Martin's new "decisiveness" boiled down to.
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
Almond butter sounds delicious."The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter sounds delicious."The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again
it could be the reason Jeph leaked the second comic quietly was because he knew there would be something of a discussion about how Marten would handle Claire's gender status, and he wanted to make it clear that Marten had given it some thought and was more concerned about Claire the person than, well, Claire the trans person. For now, end of that discussion.Perhaps, it certainly is an important follow-on that isn't really much of a spoiler (whereas leaking the kiss would have been awful). A convenient accident, at least.
I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter. Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!
I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.
I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter. Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.Almond butter also have fat. So does peanut butter and nutella
So what exactly happened with #2808? It was leaked, but now it's gone?
It's uploaded, but not published through the web site. There are multiple links to it back in the thread; or you can just click the Previous button and then edit the comic number in the URL to the number for tomorrow's post.
That was before he needed to blink. Now he is full machine and no longer is vulnerable to such weaknessesI'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.
It's in his eyes. Those big, shiny blue eyes.
When was the last time he blinked?
Almond butter sounds delicious."The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again
I think it follows the peanut butter trend. Probably they use butter as a word for a texture firmer than cream.Almond butter sounds delicious."The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again
Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?
No one, that's who.
I have hard opinions on things.
I think it follows the peanut butter trend. Probably they use butter as a word for a texture firmer than cream.Almond butter sounds delicious."The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again
Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?
No one, that's who.
I have hard opinions on things.
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!
At my local vegan joint, they'd just bring you scrambled tofu and some god-awful soy-based abomination that they spray-painted pink in the prep room.
I like to eat vegan, but I HATE attempts at having items comparable to traditional animal-flesh fare. They're not making veganism better, they're just making bacon & eggs shitty.
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!"She don't use jelly"
This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.
This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.
I'm vegan and I never buy fake meat. Sometimes I buy vegan items which are shaped similarly to some meat items - such as vegan sausages, burgers or soya mince - but that is not fake meat. That is just the shape that food is. Pigs don't grow in sausage shapes.
The reason those products exist isn't because vegans demand them, but because a) the food industry generally lacks imagination and b) it is a lot more profitable to sell a wide range of speciality items rather than just vegetables, pulses and grains.
You are wrong in two points.
Yes, woman past 44 can get pregnenant. The chances are smaller but it is not even close to "cannot get" the main concern is on genetic problems like down's syndrome.
And I don't think Claire's mom look that old, she looks pretty youthful (and hot)
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/surrogate-mother-61-gives-birth-to-her-grandson/blogEntry?id=17151493&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.br%2F
Personally, I think that the mistake that some posters are making (and I made it too) is that we all forgot that Marten's growing up has been going on all the time. It arguably started as far back as when Lt Porter called him an ass for avoiding Padma. He's since been slowly and certainly painfully sometimes, learning the importance to move forwards on his own initiative. He's seen how it is working out for others and he's seen how failing to do so has hurt them on occasion.
His experience with Claire is simply the final outcome. Claire's own situation and his general need to be protective of his friends meant that he couldn't be passive and let her set the pace. He had to take the initiative or there was no telling how badly she might be hurt. Once he set himself the intent of sorting things out (even if only after breakfast), his fairly quick internal monologue would have probably done the rest.
So, Claire isn't an end in of itself - It's one of the outcomes of him either reaching or approaching that end. We might see other outcomes, such as him doing more with Deathmole (maybe persuading Amir to hire a keyboardist and a vocalist as well as working on more songs)
Almond butter sounds delicious.
I've heard it's pretty good but I can't just get rid of my regular butter. Maybe I should, just so I can cut a source of fat out of my diet.
This is what I don't understand about vegans. There are nearly unlimited variety of vegetal products but they keep making fake meat. Meat is not something that common in undeveloped poor areas and people make many interesting dishes with what they have available yet people ignore it all and keep advertising fake meat.
But IMHO it's kind of offensive to say what he was looking to fill the hole was a woman. It especially becomes clear if you think about the genders being flipped around - if Marten was a girl who was fluttering around aimlessly, and then a man completed her. Marten's main issue is he's a full on grownup with no plan for the future. He doesn't want to go to grad school, he doesn't seem interested in a real job, and basically has nothing but vague dreams of being a musician he doesn't try too hard on. He's a reasonably smart dude with no ambition.
Maybe Claire can give him the support he needs to actually, you know, stop acting like a boy and become a man. But it would have been so much more rewarding to see Martin genuinely grow up while he was single than to do it under Claire's tutelage. Sort of similar to how Faye did so much improvement of herself while being single before Angus ever came into the picture.
That's what I was seriously expecting from Martin anyway. Becoming a grownup. And that's why I'm a bit let down if, as people said, this is what Martin's new "decisiveness" boiled down to.
My wife is 43. I don't think you can't be hot at that age, or youthful. :psyduck: But I think the wrinkles around Clairemom's eyes are supposed to convey a somewhat older status. Might be a tad younger than Martin's Mom at 56, but not much.
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!"She don't use jelly"
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.
You must be the first user to have a surname related to the new comic series, and you have also simultaneously discovered the coolest one that will ever exist related to it. Kudos, mu'fucka.
As a longtime lurker (and longer-time reader of QC) I can officially say that the amount of "Squee" has reached critical levels. Though, after the weekend of waiting I just had... I'm simply glad the power of pancakes was able to supersede the gravitational pull of Steve's Cereal.
You must be the first user to have a surname related to the new comic series, and you have also simultaneously discovered the coolest one that will ever exist related to it. Kudos, mu'fucka.
Xie xie. I figured with the timing of my arrival I could either go the Claire-Marten squee-factory route, or jump in the deep-end with a reference to Jeph's new venture.
Hopefully it catches on and we can look forward to more wind-turbine related dramatics in the future. I'm sure they'll help keep the new comic cool. :claireface:
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/aa/aae4573dfacb2214759a8ebd9c5d0f9180276d2a774b93ac3324a024803ba0f9.jpg)
...or....not.
"The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
I would like my vegan pancakes with eggs and bacon please!
At my local vegan joint, they'd just bring you scrambled tofu and some god-awful soy-based abomination that they spray-painted pink in the prep room.
I like to eat vegan, but I HATE attempts at having items comparable to traditional animal-flesh fare. They're not making veganism better, they're just making bacon & eggs shitty.
I think it follows the peanut butter trend. Probably they use butter as a word for a texture firmer than cream.Almond butter sounds delicious."The place I get vegan French toast at puts butter and powdered sugar on them"
Do a lot of people order vegan food there only to de-veganify it with condiments? Is it the Irony Cafe?
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=14
More than likely almond or soy butter if it's a vegan cafe.
Almond butter is okay, just a bit sweet compared to normal butter. But I've eaten a vegan breakfast before, the pancakes were actually pretty good. But the bacon and eggs...never again
Nut butters (hur hur) aren't really comparable to dairy butter though, right? I mean, not even close. I could imagine someone saying "butter" when they mean margarine, or even that Earth Balance garbage, but who just says "butter" when they mean peanut/almond/etc.?
No one, that's who.
I have hard opinions on things.
I should sell petroleum jelly as a dairy free/nut free/gluten free/soy free/allergen free/vegetable free/calorie free butter!
Veggie burgers are not fake meat. Round is not a meat shape, it is a food shape.
It really depends on whether or not they are trying to approximate the texture and taste of some meat product. I've had some awesome veggie burgers... and those who tried to be beef-like that were just nasty. But I've also had "beef" crumbles that were really good to replace meat in things like tacos or chili. I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but I do try to keep a more sensible, healthier diet when I can. The idea of making vegan products look and taste like meat just seems to be missing the mark. You aren't going to trick people into eating your stuff if they want to eat meat. And it's of limited comfort to provide fake meat to those who would rather be eating meat but for whatever reason can't or won't. Embrace the diversity and flavors of your product, don't try to mask them as something else...
And not just nuts. Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/p960x960/10571926_10153317057411002_2274138618273430610_o.jpg)
Yeah. I like the arc. Wrt marten's character development, he has taken step after step, lesson after lesson to get where he is now. It was neither a sudden character change to get them to hook up, nor do I expect the development to stop after he got the girl. Jeph certainly has a plan, and I can only guess how much fun he had watching the community squirm over the last few strips. And squee today.
And not just nuts. Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).(click to show/hide)
And pumpkin butter. Two of my favorite tastes of fall (especially on French toast, with gobs of butter).
I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.
And not just nuts. Say hello to my friend apple butter, completely unlike butter yet a loudly obnoxious partner in crime that elevates toast from meh to marvelous (especially when paired with, you got it, butter).(click to show/hide)
And pumpkin butter. Two of my favorite tastes of fall (especially on French toast, with gobs of butter).
You're forgetting maple butter.
But again, how many days ago in comic time was the Emily Kiss arc? Maybe 2 weeks? Possibly less? Seems like a hell of a lot of growth in a short period of time, given the response was pretty much "classic Marten."
The flow of time in the QCverse often confuses me. I must confess that I find this arc very resonant on an emotional level, and am definitely in the category of reader with a strong identification with the characters, which naturally affects how i 'read' Marten's responses - in that, he is acting in the way that I wish I might act in the same or a similar situation.
I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.
Because words have meaning, and people thinking they can just use a word any way they want to refer to things they are not are going to be the downfall of civilization. Burger is short for hamburger, a hamburger is a patty of ground beef on a sandwich.
Mind you, your lentil-mushroom sandwich sounds pretty tasty, but it is not in any way a burger.
Warning - while you were reading 12 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Seriously? In the time it takes me to rant about words?
I don't see how Marten has fallen for Claire. I don't see how they have any sort of special connection.
...
Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
No, that's not what I was saying. Hamburger=burger is what I was saying. If you just say "burger" without a modifier, beef burger is implied just as strongly as "hamburger" without modifiers. You could call a veggie burger a veggie hamburger, but that's unwieldy so nobody does.If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
Exactly. We take hamburger to mean beef burger even though it's made from beef. Pork burgers do exist, but they must be denoted as such. That's why I qualified the discussion with "modern common usage." Regardless of etymology, ham- in this case is a prefix meaning it's a traditional burger made from the charred flesh of dead cows (as I believe Faye once put it). But burger is also open to a variety of other prefixes and modifiers.
Descriptivism, yo.
Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
No, that's not what I was saying. Hamburger=burger is what I was saying. If you just say "burger" without a modifier, beef burger is implied just as strongly as "hamburger" without modifiers. You could call a veggie burger a veggie hamburger, but that's unwieldy so nobody does.If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix.It's not a prefix, burger is just short for hamburger. (From Hamburg, Germany) Also, think of it this way, if ham was a prefix, wouldn't hamburger be a pork burger?
Exactly. We take hamburger to mean beef burger even though it's made from beef. Pork burgers do exist, but they must be denoted as such. That's why I qualified the discussion with "modern common usage." Regardless of etymology, ham- in this case is a prefix meaning it's a traditional burger made from the charred flesh of dead cows (as I believe Faye once put it). But burger is also open to a variety of other prefixes and modifiers.
Descriptivism, yo.
Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.
That was a link about surrogate mother. But if you want a link about older mothers fine.You are wrong in two points.
Yes, woman past 44 can get pregnenant. The chances are smaller but it is not even close to "cannot get" the main concern is on genetic problems like down's syndrome.
And I don't think Claire's mom look that old, she looks pretty youthful (and hot)
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/surrogate-mother-61-gives-birth-to-her-grandson/blogEntry?id=17151493&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.br%2F
I said via their own eggs. The woman in the linked article carried her daughter's pregnancy to term.
My wife is 43. I don't think you can't be hot at that age, or youthful. :psyduck: But I think the wrinkles around Clairemom's eyes are supposed to convey a somewhat older status. Might be a tad younger than Martin's Mom at 56, but not much.
The Luther?QuoteAphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.
Yes. But then, I'm from Florida, where it's not unheard of to have a bacon cheeseburger with a Krispy Kreme donut as the bun.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
The Luther?
Although, under the current usage, the correct name for the Watergate scandal would actually be Watergategate, as Watergate would be a scandal about water, not a scandal involving the Watergate complex.Ugh, I fucking hate that "-gate" became an acceptable suffix for precisely that reason.
Although, under the current usage, the correct name for the Watergate scandal would actually be Watergategate, as Watergate would be a scandal about water, not a scandal involving the Watergate complex.Ugh, I fucking hate that "-gate" became an acceptable suffix for precisely that reason.
Mooski, that episode's from a few years back. It's also how I learned about the concept of the itis (well, that name at least).
Aphanisis, now I wonder if anyone's had a burger wrapped in a pancake instead of a bun.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I don't see how Marten has fallen for Claire. I don't see how they have any sort of special connection. I mean, he tried to go with Faye, Dora, and Hanners first, and the only reason he invited her to the wedding was because she had a car. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2377)She may have offered the ride as a thanks for the treatment at the party, or because she liked the idea of spending time with him, or maybe she was just bored. Either way, I doubt he accepted just because of the car - Claire just offered a ride, and he invited her to the wedding, and it's not hard to imagine that he really preferred her company over going alone.
Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.Counterargument on that one:
Nice one, Cicero. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2403)
Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.Counterargument on that one:Quote from: ClaireNice one, Cicero. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2403)
Granted, it is quite rare, but it does happen.
I'm surely reading too much into things here, but I've always seen her expression in that panel as slightly proprietorial...
Panel three here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431) is the same for me.
Why am I checking the main page? I know what happens!
Ah, c'mon, that was just a gentle josh. Laughing with, not at. It's quite Claire to me.
Claire has a sharp wit (and I don't mean the puns), but - unlike everyone else in his life - she never makes fun of him.Counterargument on that one:Quote from: ClaireNice one, Cicero. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2403)
Granted, it is quite rare, but it does happen.
Why am I checking the main page? I know what happens!
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"! She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her?
What was even the point of the Emily arc?
Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"! She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her?
I feel similarly. Not that I don't think it could've happened eventually, but we just had this thing about Emily where he says he wouldn't want to date an intern (I know it's an excuse, but still, he said it out loud), and then immediately this happens? What was even the point of the Emily arc?
Have just seen 2807, have not yet seen 2808. Yea for Marten and Claire, but no squee. I'm reserving the squee for the impossible: Marten-Hannelore.
To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.
"Because of you I've finally figured out what I want to do with my life, the man I want to be."
"Hannelore, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with me, Marten Reed. Fireman."(click to show/hide)
To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.
Are we reading the same comic? That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.
Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.
Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.
That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean). I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.
Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.
That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean). I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.
I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.
I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I registered just to say that I'm with you guys. We are the Three Caballeros!
That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.
Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed. Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.
I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
"The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on MartenI thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)
While emotional pain is part of the comic, it feels wrong for Jeph to write a story where the point is to crush a character. "The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten, the Dora/Marten breakup either, Sven cheating on Faye wasn't about hurting Faye.
I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.+1 Insightful. You expressed my thoughts better than even I could.
It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June. Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once. The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches. Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.
Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee. If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I registered just to say that I'm with you guys. We are the Three Caballeros!
That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.
Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed. Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.
I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.
Yes, I know what you mean - I just can't see that happening to someone as defenceless as Emily (seemingly, and perhaps she only seems so to me - mostly basing this on her reaction to 'give peas a chance').
It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June. Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once. The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches. Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.
Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee. If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.
Going to be blunt...I'm just revolted in this way of thinking. Marten was not "looking for a hole to fill". That's not what happened here, and this an inhumane interpretation. It's not about being "completed" or about "decisiveness"
Life throws you things, whether you're ready or not. For the past few years in the comic, Marten has been learning to deal with those curveballs, and more and more, he's been the one his friends have been coming to when they've got something going on. If you haven't noticed that change, that's unfortunate, because it's one of the best things of the comic these days. Claire's reveal of her feelings for Marten was the latest thing, probably the most important thing, and he reacted in a way that's far more grownup and mature than any of the other characters have shown so far in similar situations.
Yeah, Marten still hasn't figured out what to do with his life. Got news for you....the vast majority of people never do. How many people actually use their college degree? How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s? Most drift from job to job finding something we enjoy doing that pays the bills and buys a little freedom. It's what we actually do in the time we have and with the people we're given that makes our life and leaves our memory. You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.
I've been assuming that Claire's mom is roughly twice Claire's age, which would make her 48, more or less. And incidentally the same age as my wife.
[1] Without going into too much speculation, Marigold and Dale might have a problem there. If watching anime, playing WoW and having sex is all they do, that may yield a strong emotional bond, but not an intellectual one. A longterm relationship needs both, with the latter becoming more important the longer the relationship lasts.
Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest? It's happened a couple of times to me. Sometimes it's cause the friendship to fall apart, (I hope that's not what's going to happen here.) and sometimes it's just been a thing that runs it's natural course and then we ended it as friends. These things happen, and in reading back to the wedding arc, that's what I see here. You have two people that are friends and are comfortable around each other. Marten getting a little tipsy and playing with Claire's hair is something I could see myself doing to a friend, and when I woke up the next morning, if I remembered there being a spark of something there from the other person, I'd evaluate my feelings.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s?
You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.While I don't think he was portrayed that badly, you have it right. He's one of the good guys.
Back when I was in high school and college, I had plenty of friendships which over a period of weeks to months, turned into infatuations. Arguably I was in love with some of them. Tha said, none of them ever loved me back, and in each case I pissed away most of a year pining away for them only to get shot down. By the time I was 23, and still a virgin, I decided to try dating instead of hoping my female friends would love me back. Lost the V quick, and in a few more years of casual dating/fucking around/short term relationships I finally found someone to marry. Someone who I loved with all my heart based upon the trust and respect that grew between us, but for whom I never felt that butterflies in stomach crap.
So yeah, nothing about this sort of scenario makes me squee. There's nothing about it I could relate to. Not like the Martin/Faye dynamic back in the day, which really spoke to me, because that's pretty much what my experience with women was like a few years before the comic started.
Maybe romance is't for suckers, but I certainly saw no reason to believe in it in life personally. Real love is a lot of hard work.
I think the heart you are looking for is present, but it is subtle and easy to miss. There is great depth in the body language of both characters in the last few strips - personally, I think this is some of the best work Jeph has ever doneSome is so unsubtle, I can't believe others haven't commented on it. Just look at pupil size for goodness' sake.
I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character. I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.
I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway. I visited daily to make sure she was alright. A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat.Squee!
She made me spaghetti.
My laundry basket never made it back to my house. It just... felt right. It was sudden, and surprising to both of us. I let my lease go, and moved in.
Two years later, we were married. That was in 1986. We've had issues, and ups and downs. But we're still best friends.
I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character. I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.
She's snappier than Penelope. Claire's humor is more upbeat puns and prank-snark where Penelope is more dead-pan snark and curmudgeon grumble.
Claire's more expressive.
Also she has red-hair. Red hair.
Red hair is a deal maker.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I registered just to say that I'm with you guys. We are the Three Caballeros!
That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.
Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed. Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.
I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
I'm kind of in this group too. There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what. I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that. Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character. He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain. This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.
Character growth? Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.
Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.
True love is hard work, but falling in love is super easy. Any little thing with any person can trigger it. Maybe that's what we've just witnessed. I'm a hopeless romantic and it's one of the things that made my wife fall for me in the first place. Give Claireten a chance. They've got the easy part done, now comes the hard part of making it work.
Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.
I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).
One thing more on the Claire and Marten relationship development is that she, more than the other interns has more of a friendship with Faye.
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
I guess I disagree with you pretty strongly. I didn't love any of my girlfriends, although I liked them just fine. Hell, I didn't fall head over heels for my wife, I just slowly realized over a year plus of being together that there was no word to describe what I felt but love.
That obsessive, butterflies in the stomach feeling you get about someone though? That never led me to any good places, not even once. As I said, when I was young, I would fall in love with female friends, then get the nice guy talk. Or fall in love with women from online. So I made it a rule not to consider my friends as romantic options, and to stop talking to girls who lived across the country online. Even then, these feelings led me astray. Every time I had that feeling, I had a hard time playing it cool after a successful few dates, and they'd stop talking to me. In contrast, the girls I wasn't into so much to begin with I could play cool with, and actually date for a longer period.
Actually it's funny, because right when I met my wife, there was another woman who I had been interested in, in the strong butterfly way, but I was convinced she didn't like me as more than a friend. I ended up dating my wife instead, and a few months later, was hanging out with the girl, and realized she was actually crazy in love with me too. That said, I knew that there was no reason to ever trust this feeling, that my relationship was going well, I cared about commitments, and I wasn't going to throw it all away for silly butterflies.
My understanding is that feeling, even when reciprocal, doesn't last more than a year or two. So I'm not sure I missed anything important.
Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.
I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).
Yes, there are other neurotic characters but for example, Dora's neurosis don't make you feel like holding her and protecting her. You just want her to stop asking you where everything is and shoo away Swiper.
I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character. I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.
(http://i.imgur.com/cd5RfKl.jpg)What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
Wonderful question!
(http://i.imgur.com/cd5RfKl.jpg)What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
Wonderful question!
(click to show/hide)
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.
Aside from their love of books, in what way are Penelope and Claire similar at all?
I'd submit that Penelope is the "token." In a story where everybody's got some kind of issues, she (and probably Gabby, who we also don't see anymore) is the token. She's normal. She's vanilla. And amid all the variety of the rest of the cast... well, she's downright dull. Likable enough, and handy at those times when you need a semi-serious foil to the rest of the gang, but so very ordinary.
In real life, that's not a bad thing. When you're telling a story, though, (and I think this is true in life, too) it's a person's lumps and imperfections that make them and their circumstances interesting.
Uhh...what is moe? Is it some forum term?More anime fan-speak. Moe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe) (tvtropes link).
Wow, man. That's actually really depressing. I can't understand NOT having that butterfly feeling. I've been married for 6 years and sometimes my wife does something super adorable and I get those feelings all over again. I'm not trying to knock on your relationship, so please don't be mad. What works for you, works for you. I could never have a romantic relationship where those feelings didn't exist. That's me, though. I think though, there are a lot of people out there that believe in a romantic love. And sometimes, romantic love just happens. I'm sorry it never happened for you, or that if it did, it never worked out. I really am. Just don't down on people that like, live or hope for a romantic love like that, not only for themselves, but for the fictional characters they've come to associate with.
More anime fan-speak. Moe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe) (tvtropes link).
Ahh. I've tried to avoid knowing as much about anime as possible in my life.Probably a wise choice.
What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
Am I the only one who picked up on Claire having feelings for Marten here: 2431 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431)
Seems like she's the only one seeing responsible actions out of the whole cast. I totally support Marten's decision to buy that guitar, but I don't see picking up extra hours to make up the lost money as more responsible than usual. She sees him as responsible when he's just making up for a huge impulse purchase there.
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I registered just to say that I'm with you guys. We are the Three Caballeros!
That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.
Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed. Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.
I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
I'm kind of in this group too. There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what. I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that. Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character. He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain. This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.
Character growth? Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.
Are we reading the same comic? That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.Ahh. I've tried to avoid knowing as much about anime as possible in my life.Probably a wise choice.
WRT the whole "moe" thing: it appears that one of the central themes of moe, as I understand it, is innocence and submissiveness. Now, Claire has shown that when it comes to matters of the heart she's somewhat naive, but I hardly would say that her character as a whole is one of innocence-just look at her conversation with Clinton about judging risks and all that. And, when it comes to submissiveness, well, she had some pretty strong opinions that she didn't quash about Marten's lame orientation, and she's quick to call people out when she perceives them as being egotistical ("I knew [obscure artist] back when he had a whole first name"). I don't see her as being a cliche, is what I'm getting at.
The classical Moe character is highly associated with innocence, submission, helplessness and woobie characteristics (e.g., Fragile Flower, Shrinking Violet, Extreme Doormat, Dojikko, The Ingenue, etc., usually drawn with Tareme Eyes), although this does not need to be always the case. In many other, more modern variations, there is also a trend towards more upbeat and extroverted personalities that are far more unique, noticeable and recognizable
A common definition is that Moe is the ability of a character to instill in the audience an irrational desire to adore them, hug them, protect them, comfort them, etc. To evoke a sort of Big Brother Instinct, in men and women.
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.Sure it is! I actively choose to remain ignorant of sports, because the perceived benefit of having something to talk about with other males my age and any slight enjoyment I might derive from it don't outweigh in my mind the amount of time I would spend watching games.
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.Sure it is! I actively choose to remain ignorant of sports, because the perceived benefit of having something to talk about with other males my age and any slight enjoyment I might derive from it don't outweigh in my mind the amount of time I would spend watching games.
I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!
Congrats, Sir/Madam. I registered an account just to join the conversation because of you.
Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest?
...
I'd evaluate my feelings.
Wait, they told you immaculate conception didn't involve sex? Yikes!I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!
Your parents have sexuality? I'm so sorry. Gotta tell ya, being an immaculate conception is great :)
Not dedicating time to something is not the same as actively avoiding knowing anything about it.I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.Sure it is! I actively choose to remain ignorant of sports, because the perceived benefit of having something to talk about with other males my age and any slight enjoyment I might derive from it don't outweigh in my mind the amount of time I would spend watching games.
I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!
Wait, they told you immaculate conception didn't involve sex? Yikes!I also actively choose to remain ignorant of my parent's sexuality, which I will maintain is a very wise choice!
Your parents have sexuality? I'm so sorry. Gotta tell ya, being an immaculate conception is great :)
/blasphemy
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix. Unless you're a hardcore prescriptivist, I don't see any way around the argument that burger, in modern common usage, denotes malleable foodstuffs molded into a patty that is then cooked.
I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.Any issue?
I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on
Indeed. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2332I don't think actively choosing ignorance over any issue is a wise choice.Any issue?
You should hang out with Pintsize. :wink:
Some is so unsubtle, I can't believe others haven't commented on it. Just look at pupil size for goodness' sake.
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....Yes
:psyduck:Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....Yes
Nope, no matter how many times I look at it Claire's faces are just so adorable. That is what pure, unadulterated happiness looks like.
Here's the thing: Let's compare Claire to Padma. Marten didn't know Padma very long, just like he hasn't known Claire long. But he and Padma could talk about things, they could banter back and forth, they could laugh, there was chemistry! That I was totally into, I could understand that! Plus, Padma was an adult, you know? And her time with Marten felt like an adult relationship, brief as it was. We haven't seen any of that with Claire. He's been a confidant to Claire, sure, he's been a buddy. But more than that? It's just not there.
With Padma, it felt natural. With Claire, it feels forced.
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Your response, though, makes me wonder because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.Maybe he will
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Maybe he will(click to show/hide)
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man?Well, if you check her DNA, yes. She (removed by moderator), she cant have babies, and she had to take hormones to make, for example, her breasts grow. In reality also her voice would be male-ish, and the chance that she's a lesbian would be very high (basically reverse chances than for ordinary people).
It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that wayWhy ? He was into women before ?
or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath??Only bisexuals have that "freedom".
Congrats, Sir/Madam. I registered an account just to join the conversation because of you.
Awww thanks! Glad you're joining the community!Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest?
...
I'd evaluate my feelings.
Sure, I've absolutely had that happen! Shame I was always too chicken to follow up on it :-\
When it happened to me, though, it was someone that I already at least had friend-chemistry with, someone I was already connecting with. But there's been very little relationship development between these two! Nothing to say, "hey, there's something there, maybe!" He mused over the drunk-snuggle the same way he mused over Emily's cheek-kiss - noting to write home about there. Even when he's in the bar and calls Claire his favorite, he says "you're all my favorite!" Marten reaches out to Claire and invites her to things because that's what he does - he reaches out to people who seem like they need it. He's helping her feel included, that's all. If Emily wasn't so self-sufficient, he'd invite her out to stuff too. There's no indication that they even have a deepening friendship, besides idle conversations at work. It just feels like Marten falling into something because it's easy and she's has a crush, not through any real impetus of his own.
There's also the issue (for me) that she feels so much younger and impressionable. She's trusted him with personal stuff, but what has she trusted her with? What does he see in her? What is it that makes it about her in particular? I get that she has a crush on him, but it feels like an infatuation-crush, not like something Marten could sink his teeth into.
Here's the thing: Let's compare Claire to Padma. Marten didn't know Padma very long, just like he hasn't known Claire long. But he and Padma could talk about things, they could banter back and forth, they could laugh, there was chemistry! That I was totally into, I could understand that! Plus, Padma was an adult, you know? And her time with Marten felt like an adult relationship, brief as it was. We haven't seen any of that with Claire. He's been a confidant to Claire, sure, he's been a buddy. But more than that? It's just not there.
With Padma, it felt natural. With Claire, it feels forced.
Although anatomically speaking female gait part of normal women movement I guess a man can actively train that until it takes no more conscious effort.Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
I'll say this much: Her hips move like she's anatomically female. Men can walk like that but it takes conscious effort. Claire was half-asleep, so it is just how her body works. I'd say she's >80℅ through transition.
And that's why it could happen! Because nobody is expecting it anymor... Oh... Now it won't happen... Wait! :psyduck:Maybe he will(click to show/hide)
That ship sunk so long ago it's sitting in the middle of a desert.
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.It is a reference to a song. It was posted in the thread earlier.
Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.It is a reference to a song. It was posted in the thread earlier.
I've got to say that even the view points that I don't agree with here are fascinating - it isn't just that there is more than one way to start or be in a relationship, there is a human race full of ways :-)As many ways as people. :-)
Y'know, I don't understand those lyrics and definitely don't understand what it has to do with the comic. If anyone wants to draw any kind of connection.... ?Secondly, the "Nose Grows Some" reference had me worried. Why? Pinocchio. To me, it was a suggestion that this was a falsehood. But somehow I'm doubting that.It is a reference to a song. It was posted in the thread earlier.
Speaking of civility, there are a lot of things to know about transgender and other trans* people. This set of rules is incomplete.
The principle to keep in mind is that the trans* people are male, female, or other as they report themselves to be. They have spent their lives grappling with their identity and are the world's leading authorities on it. Next is that they have always been that sex even when their bodies didn't match. Remember those points and you'll see a lot of the etiquette for yourself.
Don't argue "biology" unless you have a specialist post-secondary education.
Private parts and pronouns: use pronouns people tell you to use for them. And don't put them in quotes. Don't ask about medical status. Natural general curiosity you should satisfy with online resources such as http://glaad.org/transgender but don't pry into someone's life. You wouldn't ask any other woman "Do you have a vagina"?, so don't do it to a trans woman.
That includes Claire. It took a while to persuade the moderators but it turns out that speculating about Claire's downstairs hurts real people. Further,
Quote from Jeph Jacques
Dear everyone who ever asks about Claires junk: its none of your business whats in somebody elses pants. Stop it.
That word you saw online is a toxic slur. "Shemale", "tranny", and anything you've seen on a porn site will be treated like ethnic slurs by the moderators.
Want to know more?. There's a lot to learn. Start with the links ZoeB posted at the beginning of the trans* discussion thread. Be cautious asking in the forum: make sure you don't sound like you're entitled to answers. We have some generous educators but don't overuse them.
I can't get a fictitious person's consent. My only reason for asking the question is because I want to get into Marten's headspace. Genitalia exist, it's part of being human. Some humans like one set, some the other, and some both. To my knowledge Marten has never expressed any interest in people with male genitalia. It seems out of character to suddenly jump into relationship with a transgender person because we have no previous examples of him expressing interest in the male sex. My inquiry stems from the thought if this is something Marten has considered fully. I can't judge if Marten thinks he is being bold and assertive and fooling himself that he can do this or if he is genuinely attracted to Claire both physically and emotionally. I guess that is yet to be decided but not knowing left me scratching my head. I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Welcome, new person!
If you research the matter further, you'll find the term "biologically a man/a woman" fails to properly describe the situation in any case. After all, what are we but biology, no matter our bodies?
So Claire is a woman, because she identifies as a woman.
If you intended it as a question about her genitalia: please don't discuss that. In the manner such discussions tend to go, they very quickly become disrespectful to real people, of which we have a-plenty on this board. Imho not discussing people's genitalia without their consent is basic human decency.
My language is sloppy but my understanding is clear. I doubt Marten's credibility because I've seen people make decisions like this in real life only to realize later that they chose something that they actually didn't want, often harming others in the process.Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.
Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.
Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!
I've seen people make decisions like this in real life only to realize later that they chose something that they actually didn't want, often harming others in the process.The decision to date the person you find attractive and see whether it works out often does lead to such realizations and hurt feelings, yes. But there's only one way to find out...
Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.
Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.
Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!
I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.
To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at...
While this is probable, there is no way for us to know whether it's true or not.Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man?Well, if you check her DNA, yes.
She also had an operation to transform her penis into a vaginaYou do not know that. It has never been stated and we've been (repeatedly) asked not to speculate.
Agreed. She is judgmental, and the puns are irritating (although Emily's are often worse). And she really needs a haircut.I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.
We don't ignore the issue; we restrict the discussion of it in a number of ways, and for a number of reasons.
The owner of this forum, the artist himself, has made it clear that talking about people's and character's genitalia is off-limits; his place, his rules.
The mods, trying to follow his guidance, together with that of those most affected by society's marginalisation of them (and worse - much worse) have channelled the discussion of trans*-related matters into threads in the Discuss! forum - those threads contain many thousands of posts around this subject which are useful to read, and which will give some insight into the decisions that are made here.To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at...
No one here is saying that different means better or worse; that is bullshit. Read the thousands of posts I just mentioned (and the links they contain) for more background.
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)Someone should tell Jeph, he seems to have forgotten for the last couple of weeks ;)
That obsessive, butterflies in the stomach feeling you get about someone though? That never led me to any good places, not even once.I hear you. When enumerating body parts that are qualified to make lifechanging decisions, "genitalia", "hormonal glands" and "heart" are not among them. Always double check with your brain.
I don't think Clinton is a big Marten fan.I don't think Clinton is a big fan of anyone. He's overprotective of Claire to the point that he'd probably want to see her locked in a cage, three miles underground, where nothing could hurt her.
To my knowledge Marten has never expressed any interest in people with male genitalia.He has never expressed any interest in men. While there's a huge overlap between men and people with male genitalia, you don't check someone's pants to figure out whether they're attractive.
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.These are questions everyone should ask themselves at one point or another. Knowing your priorities in a relationship helps making better relationship decisions. My personal conclusion has been that sex is awesome, but it's not the part of a relationship I need to be happy. Your results may vary.
The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?Sure! But I still would rather have waffles most of the times.
"The syrup is for the *pancakes*!"Oh god, how did it take us this long for anyone to make that connection?
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.
The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.
If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.
Just to make things even more devastating when they don't work out?I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)Someone should tell Jeph, he seems to have forgotten for the last couple of weeks ;)
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.
There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.
There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.
http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf
Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.
The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.
If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.
I. Love. This. Post.
We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.
The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.
If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.
On a general level I feel that restrictions on discussing any topic is often counterproductive.In this case, the discussions that happened before that rule was made were far more counterproductive.
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.
There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.
There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.
http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf
Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.
Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology. What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years. Victorian women were expected to be reserved, Elizabethan women were expected to be bawdy, read Shakespeare some time. Are you suggesting sudden evolution changed lady brains? Does Marigold have a partial male brain because she liked video games?
Also I see your study and raise you another article http://womensenews.org/story/women-in-science/131212/calling-all-female-brains-stop-the-neurosexism#.VDTzbGcxUg4
Taking hormone in adulthood wouldn't change that because it is part of the basic bone structure I think.
Maybe longer than that, now that I think of it.I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)Someone should tell Jeph, he seems to have forgotten for the last couple of weeks ;)
I. Love. This. Post.
We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
Indeed--it's starting to give me the crepes.Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
Yes! I've had enough of this waffling.
Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
I would love to believe that is always the case however I feel it is an ideal situation. People are different, they have different thought processes, modus operandi etc.... I know not everyone thinks nor acts that way whether it be the fault of our society or otherwise. Physical attraction is a deal breaker for many people. I understand how many people have successful relationships regardless of genitalia but to say that all people can do that would be a very broad statement. That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling. He's reached a critical point in his life and he's freaking out about a lot of things. He may not be behaving rationally. It's entirely possible he's looking for something he can control because right now he feels like he is so out of control. So when I am presented with their romance it's important in my mind that I have all the facts straight. In real life people's personal life isn't my business especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.
(does anyone besides Claire even own a car in this comic?)Started to think about it, and had to find out, only can be sure of a couple
In the early days, there was much more of a running gag of Marty being the poor sucker who always gets barfed upon or clonked in the junk, but Jeph mostly left that behind as the comic got more sophisticated and the characters more complex.
I would love to believe that is always the case however I feel it is an ideal situation. People are different, they have different thought processes, modus operandi etc.... I know not everyone thinks nor acts that way whether it be the fault of our society or otherwise. Physical attraction is a deal breaker for many people. I understand how many people have successful relationships regardless of genitalia but to say that all people can do that would be a very broad statement. That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling. He's reached a critical point in his life and he's freaking out about a lot of things. He may not be behaving rationally. It's entirely possible he's looking for something he can control because right now he feels like he is so out of control. So when I am presented with their romance it's important in my mind that I have all the facts straight. In real life people's personal life isn't my business especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.
But I wonder if you would think this if Marten were with Emily? Or someone else not-Claire. If he were with Emily, let's say, he'd still be freaking out about a lot of things, so what really is the big deal? Claire is a woman. Reducing her to her "parts" isn't fair, and I think that's why that sort of discussion is verboten here.
In the early days, there was much more of a running gag of Marty being the poor sucker who always gets barfed upon or clonked in the junk, but Jeph mostly left that behind as the comic got more sophisticated and the characters more complex.
One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.
Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
Questioning people about hypotheticals and building a straw man is hardly fair. My position never reduced Clair to her "parts" and if Marten hooked up with someone else I would be asking the same questions. However because Marten is hooking up with Claire the consequences are much more severe. Claire could become entirely broken if things don't pan out.
One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).:-D :-D :-D
In real life people's personal life isn't my business especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.
Discussions about the implications of Claire's gender status on her potential relationship with Marten are now off-limits. Marten and Claire are fictional characters. Jeph will reveal whatever he wants to tell us about their relationship through the comic. Speculation hurts real people who are members of this community and it is quite clear from the last few days that it's not possible for this sort of discussion to take place without that hurt occurring.
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.
Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.
I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.
I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.
Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.
Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.There truly is an xkcd for every occasion.
We had been close friends for about 5 years, never really showed any romantic interest in each other (although there was attraction). Then one day, it just kinda happened.
To elaborate, if you want to expound upon these issues, as out dear author may wish to, if you have a cis/trans couple get together, and then split, having a real, underlying personality conflict, will eliminate any speculation about whether the relationship ended because of any transphobic complications. This is possibly even a more powerful message than getting them together in the first place, because the reasons for their breakup are clear, and not related to any perceived trans issues. The reason that is see this as being a likely outcome, is that, while I like Claire as a person, I just don't think we have even met the person that Marten is meant to be with. It just seems too soon in the progression of the story. I don't know, it seems like either there is going to be a breakup, or there is going to be a marriage, how else would the story end properly? It would seem less likely to me that Jeph is going to eliminate all of the struggle from Marten's character in the foreseeable future, so the likely outcome is breakup.
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
One of the running themes of the comic could be said to be Marten's climb out of the status of being "Fate's butt-monkey". The sci-fi fanatic in me considers the logical final step to be for him to step in Steve's shoes and have an action/adventure arc. Maybe saving Hannelore from her mother's evil plots (I'd love to see Beatrice doing a Dr Evil-style pinkie evil laugh).:-D :-D :-D
Would that be after he becomes Marten the Fireman?
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?
Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.
It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.
Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.
I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.
I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.
Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.
Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?
And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women. Do you want to claim that's the case?
Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior
You know, I had this whole big post typed up. It was nice and scientific, too. Then I realized what's at the root of the argument between valkygrrl and T. This makes it way easier to cut through the nonsense.
*ahem*
Gender roles are not gender.
valkygrrl is arguing about gender roles.
T is arguing about gender. (while accidentally citing examples with gender roles, confusing things)
Example: Person A is a female, but hates the accoutrement that society likes to baggage her with: dresses, pink, notions of who should do what, and all that. The accoutrement would be the work of gender roles, and this is not intrinsic. The fact that Person A is female would be gender itself, and it's this which is wired.
We can all whack ourselves with the palms of our hands, realizing how we've been talking past each other now. (Myself included, given how long the post I deleted in favor of this was.)
Aww darn. I would love to read it.Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.
Yeah, the problem is that, like Marten, I'm fundamentally lazy. Big plans, big ideas but rarely the discipline to see them through!
We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.To be fair, it is something anyone is unlikely to get without spending some serious thought and/or research on the matter. Asking questions sure is annoying if it happens every other page, but I wouldn't generally fault the newbies for it.
That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling.Hasn't today's comic? He's feeling that whatever happens, he's willing to work through it. Isn't that good enough for an answer?
Seriously, though, I can see something very dark coming out about Hannelore's origins. The plan has long since been cancelled but I suspect that Hannelore's mental issues and her very unusual childhood might all stem from a very unusual origin story.Or maybe just from a mental problem worsened by growing up in a disfunctional family. Have you seen her mother?
Or maybe just from a mental problem worsened by growing up in a disfunctional family. Have you seen her mother?Certainly--but an evil cloning plot is far more entertaining.
There's no need for a cloning accident to explain the problems hannelore has.
It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.
Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.
I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.
I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.
Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.
Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?
And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women. Do you want to claim that's the case?
Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior
Gender differences in behavior is a common occurence in many animals, not just humans. Female lab rats exposed to masculine hormones during certain stages of intrauterine development demonstrated more masculine beheavior patterns during adulthood including the way they respond to stress. Humans are not special beings unaffected by nature's laws.
You clearly demonstrate a lack of scientific education. Nothing wrong with that. People outside the scientific field are not obligued to. But it would be nice if people learned the basics before they accept anything they read on the internet.
I defend that the same way that there are different hair colors and shapes there are people with different affinities and tastes and variety makes the world beautiful. Each person is unique from before birth and not a simple white canvas waiting to be painting by nurturing
Seriously, though, I can see something very dark coming out about Hannelore's origins. The plan has long since been cancelled but I suspect that Hannelore's mental issues and her very unusual childhood might all stem from a very unusual origin story.Or maybe just from a mental problem worsened by growing up in a disfunctional family. Have you seen her mother?
There's no need for a cloning accident to explain the problems hannelore has.
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?
That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.There's the Trans* thread for discussion, and a lot of sometimes heartbreaking reading. When it comes to Claire, this equine has been beaten into the ground so hard that there's nothing for Nietzsche to run up and try to protect.
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?
That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone." That's... not a great message to give.
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone." That's... not a great message to give.
Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...
"Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone." That's... not a great message to give.
Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...
And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.
I. Love. This. Post.
We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.
That's a nice sentiment that I agree with, but doesn't really address what I was talking about. I'm not saying the trans community and their supporters should suck it up and bear attacks. I'm saying that they should refrain from attacking. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that? More flies with honey than vinegar? Maybe if you want people to be on your side for an issue you should stop treating them like an enemy.
But aside from that minor bit of terminology and the belief that T _is_ arguing gender _roles_ are innate to the brains of males and females.... Yeah.
And for those of you saying that 'we are just curious' or 'we just wanna learn more', you gave up the right to that innocence when you became defensive and aggressive in your tone.
Guh. I've seen this argument more times than I can count: telling non-privileged groups to smile and be nice and surely more people will be more willing to listen to them. You look at history and see that this simply is not true, minority groups have to scrape and fight and claw for every inch that they gain. Telling us to smile and talk softly is a form of control. "Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone." That's... not a great message to give.
I'm really sorry for being ignorant, but what does it mean that Claire is trans?
Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...
How am I not supposed to take that as combative? Presented with an opportunity to educate you instead choose to ridicule.This I don't understand. What exactly is combative or ridiculing? All I see is praise for a well formulated and thought-out post. If anything Gareth is just thinking aloud in that last part.
And this is why I just plain don't go near this particular Sacred Cow with a ten foot pole. It seems next to impossible to educate yourself on the issue without being demonized for not being already educated on the issue. I get that it's a touchy subject, but man am I ever tired of the combative, "more enemies prove my cause is righteous" attitude. Nobody ever taught me about this shit in my sheltered little life, and I'm supportive of whatever increases general happiness in the world. But try to ask a couple unintentionally awkward questions to gain a better understanding and you get labeled all sorts of nasty adjectives and nouns.Again, what is combative? Who have labelled you? I honestly don't see where this is coming from.
Indeed--it's starting to give me the crepes.Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
Yes! I've had enough of this waffling.
I can't get a fictitious person's consent. My only reason for asking the question is because I want to get into Marten's headspace. Genitalia exist, it's part of being human. Some humans like one set, some the other, and some both. To my knowledge Marten has never expressed any interest in people with male genitalia. It seems out of character to suddenly jump into relationship with a transgender person because we have no previous examples of him expressing interest in the male sex. My inquiry stems from the thought if this is something Marten has considered fully. I can't judge if Marten thinks he is being bold and assertive and fooling himself that he can do this or if he is genuinely attracted to Claire both physically and emotionally. I guess that is yet to be decided but not knowing left me scratching my head. I'm not looking to discuss this any further as I am already ranting a bit but I don't believe in ignoring one aspect of a person because it leaves me lacking understanding of them as a whole especially when it is something they might be uncomfortable with because then I can understand at least from an external view point what difficulties they may face.Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man? It would paint Marten in a new way because there was no pretext of him swinging that way or is it that Marten has gotten past all of that and is only looking at the person underneath?? Or is it that he thinks he can do that but will find out that it just doesn't work on that level for him? Or is she biologically a girl.... but doesn't act on her gender....
Welcome, new person!
If you research the matter further, you'll find the term "biologically a man/a woman" fails to properly describe the situation in any case. After all, what are we but biology, no matter our bodies?
So Claire is a woman, because she identifies as a woman.
If you intended it as a question about her genitalia: please don't discuss that. In the manner such discussions tend to go, they very quickly become disrespectful to real people, of which we have a-plenty on this board. Imho not discussing people's genitalia without their consent is basic human decency.
And while I still understand and see the motivation for your questions, and it doesn't sound like you mean any harm, I sort of came to realize that my line of questioning was a) Not okay and b) Not really as complex as I thought it was. Today's strip seems to be a pretty definitive statement on Marten's position on the matter anyhow.
And while I still understand and see the motivation for your questions, and it doesn't sound like you mean any harm, I sort of came to realize that my line of questioning was a) Not okay and b) Not really as complex as I thought it was. Today's strip seems to be a pretty definitive statement on Marten's position on the matter anyhow.
This.
During my term lurking before registering here, it became abundantly clear to me that certain subjects are not permitted to be discussed, not due to any official site policy but just because they are emotive and will derail the thread (as well as create virulent inter-user enmities that can only poison the community). That's why I try to limit my discussion of these matters on this board just to keep the community as a friendly place.
They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person
Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.
Gods, I hope that for a week, starting with the next week, we get wacky robot fun or at least just CoD drama just so things settle a bit.
Why am I having flashbacks to much earlier in Sept 1993 than the 7708th?
But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.We don't actually know that. We know what Marten has told Claire, but we know almost nothing about his personal reasoning. As someone has said before, it's possible that Marten really likes Claire's personality and has tried to convince himself that he is above caring about what's below, when it might actually end up being something he won't be able to get past. I see most of the questioning about Claire's junk as having less to do with Claire than it has to do with understanding Marten's motivations. I can understand how discussing her junk is offensive to the trans community, but discussing a character's motivations shouldn't be off-limits, and I don't really see how we can discuss Marten's motivations without discussing how he feels about the dreaded subject. It's not a question about what Claire has, but about what Marten feels about what Claire has.
Okay, it's kind of killing me. Is Claire biologically a man?Well, if you check her DNA, yes. She also had an operation to transform her penis into a vagina, she cant have babies, and she had to take hormones to make, for example, her breasts grow. In reality also her voice would be male-ish, and the chance that she's a lesbian would be very high (basically reverse chances than for ordinary people).
Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.
With all three of them.
I think she said she was 24 in one of the earlier strips, so its not creepy in that way at all. Of course, you may have just insulted everyone with a partner who is significantly older or younger than they are. I've been in that ship (in both directions) a few times in my life ;-)
Precisely. I've suddenly got a mental image of Beatrice looking at Jimbo speculatively and mentions that she's looking for a new gardener. Hannelore shouts: "Mother! No!" and drags her off.
Six months later, Jimbo's new book is a lesbian erotica work called "The Three Vixens" and the characters are disturbingly similar to Veronica, Beatrice and Mrs A (who I'm starting to think of as 'Clarice' for some reason).
I can understand how discussing her junk is offensive to the trans community, but discussing a character's motivations shouldn't be off-limits, and I don't really see how we can discuss Marten's motivations without discussing how he feels about the dreaded subject.
I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway. I visited daily to make sure she was alright. A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat.Squee!
She made me spaghetti.
My laundry basket never made it back to my house. It just... felt right. It was sudden, and surprising to both of us. I let my lease go, and moved in.
Two years later, we were married. That was in 1986. We've had issues, and ups and downs. But we're still best friends.
Pancakes...spaghetti... same diff.
(My AoA is from AS XVII BTW...)
Awesome
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.
There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.
There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.
http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf
Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.
Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology. What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years.
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.Man, this really puts things in perspective. I should probably break up with my girlfriend now.
The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
I'm really sorry for being ignorant, but what does it mean that Claire is trans?
I think veggie burgers are a gray area. They approximate the experience of eating a (ham)burger, but really, why should beef have a monopoly on a patty between two pieces of bread? I have a dynamite lentil-mushroom burger I got from vegan/ultrarunner Scott Jurek, if you're interested.
Because words have meaning, and people thinking they can just use a word any way they want to refer to things they are not are going to be the downfall of civilization. Burger is short for hamburger, a hamburger is a patty of ground beef on a sandwich.
Mind you, your lentil-mushroom sandwich sounds pretty tasty, but it is not in any way a burger.
Warning - while you were reading 12 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Seriously? In the time it takes me to rant about words?
If burger meant hamburger by default, it wouldn't require the prefix. Unless you're a hardcore prescriptivist, I don't see any way around the argument that burger, in modern common usage, denotes malleable foodstuffs molded into a patty that is then cooked.
I've been thinking about ways in which Marten and Claire counterbalance each other. Claire is passionate and goal-oriented but hasn't lived independently or dated; Marten has plenty of adult life experience but is still drifting along without knowing what he wants to be when he grows up. Claire is high-strung, socially awkward, and has panic attacks, but she's brave about taking initiative and facing change; Marten is passive, a bit of a chicken, and hates change, but he's comfortable around people and is generally very even-tempered and laid back.
Put all this together, and you might have a relationship in which neither person is the dominant one. That could be a good learning experience for both of them. It'd be a comfortable space for Claire to grow into dating: if she fell for someone more Type A, she might just get swept along and not learn as much about herself and her needs and desires, but if she had a relationship in which she wound up leading too much, she might be torn apart by anxieties. For Marten, well, he's been a bit overshadowed and sometimes dominated by the women in his life, and he might develop more of his manhood if he spends time with someone who, while not a doormat, isn't three times as assertive as he is.
Grr now I'm hungry and its all your fault ! :-DCome over, I have some flank steaks I could hammer and throw on a grill. We can have original German hamburger steaks :D
It seems out of character to suddenly jump into relationship with a transgender person because we have no previous examples of him expressing interest in the male sex.
Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!Thanks for the warm welcome! And just to clarify, I get everything you said, I'd feel the same.
I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.
But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
Dude, you literally started off by comparing trans identities to a false idol. That really makes it hard to assume you're acting in any kind of good faith."Well, I could support you and what you stand for, but I don't like your tone." That's... not a great message to give.
Great, good thing that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. But I see how this shit always goes. Try to extend the olive branch and get thorns thrown back at you. Point out that you're just trying to help/understand and get MORE hate. Fuck it. I'll just go back to not caring on way or the other. Nothing I say can be right, so I'm just going to stop saying things. Enjoy your little victory, brave crusaders. You've driven away another infidel today...
Not gonna lie, I am really horrified by the amount of people who seem to have joined up with the sole purpose of asking about Claire's hypothetical genitals.I agree that many of the posts are not good. Still, Jeph must have had a purpose when introducing Claire. Perhaps breaking down some taboos, or as a spokesperson for the transgender people and their challenges.
If you're asking questions honestly, it's okay. You won't be stepping on any toes by asking questions if you honestly don't know better. I'd be perfectly willing to clear up any misconceptions about people like me.Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!Thanks for the warm welcome! And just to clarify, I get everything you said, I'd feel the same.
I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.
But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
But the thing is, I don't know anyone who're trans, and having lurked a bit I realize it's an entirely different world, so to speak, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I've only stated to learn about all this stuff in the month I've been lurking, so I'm still a bit wary of saying something stupid. Also, I may just be a bit paranoid after reading the now-locked trans* dating/prejudice thread :psyduck:
Any questions?
In real life people's personal life isn't my business especially when it comes to genitalia but when I am being told a story I feel it's my right to ask questions as it provides context and insight into what is happening and how I feel about characters.
Head, meet desk.
But... but... 'you're awesome' isn't a question.
To put this scenario in front of us and then to get mad at us for asking the question in a respectful manner is kind of a dick move and I would like to think that he is not that kind of guy.
So, what for Thursday/Friday? I've offered two suggestions but, to save everyone time from having to sort through lots of posts, I'll summarise here:
- We get the beginning of a new arc, a Yelling Bird or some other kind of filler;
- We follow Marten and Claire to work (presuming that this is a work day); they encounter a spontaneous congratulatory party at the library because Dora has leaked the big news to Tai after they visit CoD.
Keep in mind that transpersons (transpeople?) have to face attacks on their gender identities ALL THE TIME, and should not have to do so when discussing a webcomic. So a bit of extra sensitivity from the rest of us really isn't much to ask, is it?
My favorite strips lately are the ones with May. Mostly because she's kind of a dick. She's the only one around who seems capable of rolling her eyes and calling people out on their pithy bullshit. I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on, but I feel like if things get any more saccharine I'm going to get diabetes. It just feels fake. Like QC is suddenly 7th Heaven with facial piercings. Life isn't like this. Hell, the earlier arcs had some unrealistic stuff, but at least it was funny. Remember when Faye would attack people outright and the rest of the cast would chuckle? Now it seems like it would become Yet Another Big Damn Deal.
Your response, though, makes me wonder because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.
Thanks for the warm welcome! And just to clarify, I get everything you said, I'd feel the same.That you know of. It's quite possible that you have met any number of trans* people who "pass" (goddess, how I hate that word in this context) easily. And don't feel bad, many of us know few or any openly trans* people in real life, at least closely, so ignorance is common. Fuck, I'm still ignorant, even after reading and interacting on these fora for a bit over a year now. When someone I used to work with came out to me near the start of his transition, I was awkward, stumbling over words, and didn't know what to think. It didn't help that we were both heading in different directions, and the encounter was brief. At least, thanks to both the people here who gave out information that they didn't have to, as well as research on my own, I was able to ask such questions as "Oh, what should I call you? (both name and pronouns), and actually hang out. Believe it or not, once you see someone as the person they are, instead of *what* they are, it feels perfectly normal.
But the thing is, I don't know anyone who're trans,
and having lurked a bit I realize it's an entirely different world, so to speak, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I've only stated to learn about all this stuff in the month I've been lurking, so I'm still a bit wary of saying something stupid. Also, I may just be a bit paranoid after reading the now-locked trans* dating/prejudice threadThis (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.3200.html) thread is really long, but is a good resource. And I'd worry less about saying something stupid, since plenty of people here have done so, and not just on this topic, but in general. I know I have, usually after too much drink, or because the meds are treating me funny. Main thing is just don't be an arsehole.
Dang, Ben, you could write some freakin' awesome fanfiction.
Yeah, the problem is that, like Marten, I'm fundamentally lazy. Big plans, big ideas but rarely the discipline to see them through!
Now, onto a different subject. Who'd like a funny story arc of a Mom-bar-crawl? Beatrice, Veronica and Mrs A all run into each other in CoD (all there for their own reasons) and find a weird kind of kinship from the fact their children are all wrapped up in each other's lives. They go to a bar to discuss abnormal child development/family dynamics and end up getting trashed and trashing a few bars.
Cut to next morning and Marten, Hannelore and Claire are bailing them out. They look pretty worse for the wear; Mrs A has a piercing that she doesn't remember having before and Beatrice is sure that she didn't have a "My Daughter is a Metal Goddess" tattoo on the small of her back before. Jimbo is in the next-door lock-up and tells Marten that he thinks he is in love.
Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?
I mean, physically speaking, she's gotten shorter, more feminine looking, and more attractive. This transition was mostly done by the wedding arc (no homeliness left but the buck teeth), but even looking back at the lake house arc, she still kinda looked like a drowned rat. And in terms of her personality, she originally would go on these long-winded speeches, along with tease people mercilessly. She's mellowed over time. Still loves puns, but doesn't quite put out zingers any longer. She doesn't seem as anxious any longer either, although that may be because she's gotten more comfortable around Marten.
Of course, there are many cases where Jeph has changed the fundamental direction of characters. Hannelore took awhile to become her present self. Steve degenerated from a fairly well-rounded guy (remember the Meena arc?) to a nice but broish dope who seems to have nothing in common with Marten (hard to imagine that Animal Collective is one of his favorite bands any longer). And Marigold started out just repulsive, but had her edges softened enough to make her merely irritating.My favorite strips lately are the ones with May. Mostly because she's kind of a dick. She's the only one around who seems capable of rolling her eyes and calling people out on their pithy bullshit. I know everyone else likes that the strip has this lovey-dovey kindness and acceptance group therapy thing going on, but I feel like if things get any more saccharine I'm going to get diabetes. It just feels fake. Like QC is suddenly 7th Heaven with facial piercings. Life isn't like this. Hell, the earlier arcs had some unrealistic stuff, but at least it was funny. Remember when Faye would attack people outright and the rest of the cast would chuckle? Now it seems like it would become Yet Another Big Damn Deal.
I can relate to this. QC used to make me laugh all the time back in the day. It can be witty these days, but not really that funny. Part of it is we never see much of Pintsize anymore - his non sequiturs were part of what gave the drama of the human characters proper balance. May in't actually funny, but she fills some of the void from another perspective.Your response, though, makes me wonder because I hadn't considered that Marten is basically doing a repeat of the Dora situation, where he gets into a relationship with someone who has a huge crush on him, and who he liked well enough but likely would not necessarily have pursued. If Delilah had given him her number, I think Marten would have tried dating her. I'm not trying to say Marten is settling for Claire. I think he genuinely likes her and maybe the night out and seeing her with her hair down made him realize he was attracted to her. But I do sort of wonder if we'll ever see Marten in a relationship with someone for whom he has feelings similar to those he had with Faye - he was upfront about his attraction, willing to pursue, and bummed when it didn't happen.
Yeah. I get the idea that Marten has been attracted to Claire, and likes her as a friend, but he's not really swooning over her. He's more thinking "Well, I'll give this a shot, why not?"
Honestly, this would make for a great mini-arc, where Faye kind of does a "WTF" about Marten not having shown interest in Claire before, and Marten then having to justify it. If Faye saw that Marten was interested, I think she would have hinted it to Claire in the bar the other night.
That's why I feel it is important to shed some light on what Marten is really thinking and feeling.Hasn't today's comic? He's feeling that whatever happens, he's willing to work through it. Isn't that good enough for an answer?
Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?
Marten's Dad recently married ANOTHER MAN!+1 Insightful
How come we didn't get all this "below the belt" speculation about the "difficulties they might face" in their relationship?
I know they are not mainstream characters, but if they were, or there was another gay couple* centre stage in the cast, I don't think lots of readers would be demanding anatomical details for "context and insight" reasons to do with understanding their relationship.
*Oh! I've just remembered about Tai and Dora... well, we didn't have all that discussion and controversy about what they did between the sheets, did we?
I rest my case. Double standards.
Did Marten ever did something to deserve all the crap he got? There doesn't need to be a reason to why things don't work out for some people. She liked someone but this someone ends up with her friend.
If you're asking questions honestly, it's okay. You won't be stepping on any toes by asking questions if you honestly don't know better. I'd be perfectly willing to clear up any misconceptions about people like me.
Head, meet desk.
Don't discount the possibility that some people still think "transgender" is just another flavour of "transvestite" because they've simply never come across it before.
And thank you, Zoe, for your patience and willingness to educate us. I know a transgender woman (I didn't know it when we first met) and have read up a fair amount about it on the web, but your postings have filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge and understanding.But... but... 'you're awesome' isn't a question.
Quite so...
So, what for Thursday/Friday? I've offered two suggestions but, to save everyone time from having to sort through lots of posts, I'll summarise here:Let's not forget Clinton. He could easily fill up the rest of the week.
- We get the beginning of a new arc, a Yelling Bird or some other kind of filler;
- We follow Marten and Claire to work (presuming that this is a work day); they encounter a spontaneous congratulatory party at the library because Dora has leaked the big news to Tai after they visit CoD.
Can we go back to discussing pancakes?
Welcome, Forgotten Felix (for clarity's sake we'll have to call you Felix II: Electric Boogaloo), and thank you for wanting to understand it all!
I haven't posted anything on the WCDTs about this, usually because there's been 15 responses every minute and it's getting impossible to keep track of what's going on.
But I'm going to say this. I identify as a (mostly)straight cisgendered male, and right now I am dating someone who is trans. Their genitalia doesn't matter to me. The fact that they're trans doesn't matter to me. They are a person. I am attracted to them as a person (And a fucking awesome one at that.) This is the same as what Marten is feeling right now.
discussing a character's motivations shouldn't be off-limits, and I don't really see how we can discuss Marten's motivations without discussing how he feels about the dreaded subject. It's not a question about what Claire has, but about what Marten feels about what Claire has.Nothing about that is said in the comic, and it's unlikely that jeph intends to address this. So it wouldn't really be a "discussion" but just "wild speculation".
Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place.In other words, if Jeph didn't want disrespectful discussions in his forums, he shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship? Is that what you're saying? :-o
Sorry guys, this is an aside, but looking over Claire from the introduction, has anyone noticed that Jeph has slowly made her more appealing?The art style changes. For all characters. Compare Marten and Faye from their first comics, or even from the comics a couple months ago. I wouldn't give such observations too much weight unless the characters address it.
I know it's not normal to put gifs on here, but I thought this one was highly appropriate. Well done Mr. Jacques, you are fantastic and if I wore a hat I would doff it to you.(click to show/hide)
QuoteTo put this scenario in front of us and then to get mad at us for asking the question in a respectful manner is kind of a dick move and I would like to think that he is not that kind of guy.
I think this is a misstatement of the situation. Nobody's getting mad at anyone for asking; they're responding patiently that the results of discussing this particular topic go uniformly badly, and are therefore not allowed. I think where the anger comes in is when someone, having been told this, goes on to say 'BUT I WANNA TALK ABOUT IT! IF YOU DIDN'T WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT IT WHY'D YOU MENTION IT?', etc., etc.
Subject is verboten, for reasons stated. Can you just be okay with that?
Not enough posts about how Clinton is going to flip his **** when he finds out.
Then they shake hands like gentlemen should...
Grr now I'm hungry and its all your fault ! :-D
I dunno, Clinton's robot hand does have a Murder Mode (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2425)
Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place.In other words, if Jeph didn't want disrespectful discussions in his forums, he shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship? Is that what you're saying? :-o
I know it's not normal to put gifs on here, but I thought this one was highly appropriate. Well done Mr. Jacques, you are fantastic and if I wore a hat I would doff it to you.(click to show/hide)
I keep a special doffing cap on hand for occasions just such as this.
Faye's already made sure it knows who is boss.
It's actually really easy to understand. Think about someone you're attracted to. It doesn't have to be your One True Love or anything like that. What goes through your mind? Their laugh? Their smile? Perhaps they have a personality quirk you find endearing. A couple of times you fall asleep in each others arms; you feel warm, content and happy.
The universe then smiles on you and the two of you start dating. Life couldn't be better. One night the two of you decide to make love for the first time - but there's a problem. Your genitals are too big/too small for your partner and making love is not as straightforward as it normally is. Your partner is upset and afraid. Are you suddenly going to say to them "Your stuff isn't what I usually want in a partner - it's over between us." Are you suddenly and magically going to turn those feelings of warmth and attraction off? Or do you find a way to make things work?
Once you have the answer, then you'll know why Claire's downstairs configuration is a secondary concern to Marten, instead of his overriding goal.
If you want a more concise version: you date a *person*, you don't date their disembodied genitals.
I. Love. This. Post.
We are getting an alarming number of newbies who just don't get it.
I wonder how many people got the mental image of a person taking a genital for a fancy dinner :roll:
Now you got it!
Or introducing them to friends and family as their "genital mate." Or "significant testicle." Or "vulvafriend."
Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.
This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.
We need some pancakes, and not just any pancakes, bacon pancakes!
Right, but every time someone pops up with "but I have questions" they get pointed to the relevant pre-existing threads and/or other resources and reminded not to discuss them in here because that historically leads to bad things Then, quite a lot of the time, they come back with "but why should I have to go over there and maybe learn something, I just wanna ask questions here!" or some rought equivalent.Let's be honest, if Jeph did not want us to at least be curious about it then he should not have put the main character in the situation in the first place.In other words, if Jeph didn't want disrespectful discussions in his forums, he shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship? Is that what you're saying? :-o
No. I meant what I said. I never said anything about "disrespectful discussions in his forums" or "shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship". If the relationship itself is going to be one of the focal points people are going to have questions. Thats it. I like the development and hope that the fact that She is Trans has little impact on the future. The only point I am trying to get across with my previous statement is that by putting main character in this situation(maybe scenario would be a better word) it is going to make people think of questions that respectful people would not ask. Thoughts are nether good or bad, its the actions we take that make them good or bad.
Or introducing them to friends and family as their "genital mate." Or "significant testicle." Or "vulvafriend."
Oddly enough, I can see Sven screwing up a date like this...
Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.
I don't have any legal rights to my free speech here yes. However rights really aren't about legality anyways. It's society's way of saying that we should uphold an idea because we feel it is overwhelmingly important to us that it is regardless of whatever reasons/evidence/etc.... Natural rights and legal rights are completely separate things. I have the natural right to post to this forum whatever I can and the mods have the natural and legal right to delete my posts and/or ban me. Please note that the way I'm using natural rights may not align entirely with wiki but stems from the belief that natural rights are the things that one can physically obtain/produce regardless of external pressures e.g no one can take my right away to think of Bill Murray as a lil ragamuffin. This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.
Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.
Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.
Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!
I'm so going to be banned for this but remember who brought this male/female brain stuff into the discussion...
Claire is a lovely person who for some reason or reasons was sufficiently uncomfortable with the physical and social conditions imposed by the circumstances of her birth. So uncomfortable that she sought out to change those things and has succeeded to such an extent that the people around her though either ignorance or acceptance see Claire as what she chooses to present to the world. Good for her and good for Marten not having hangups that get in the way or perusing someone he likes, who likes him and would make a good match.
But this stuff about male and female brains is so much offensive crap!
A brain is a brain. To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at... It reenforces misogynistic bullshit like women are too emotional or girls are bad at math. It says men are right every time they make an excuse up about how woman are supposed to behave because now their brains are like that not becuse form an early age they were trained by the pink asile at the toy store with little dolls and easy bake ovens while the Lego and blocks were in the blue aisle.
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Kindly read this before pressing the ban button. http://www.popsci.com/article/science/stop-looking-%E2%80%9Chardwired%E2%80%9D-differences-male-and-female-brains
Also, this is a privately run forum, not a forum run by the US government, and therefore you have no rights. See http://xkcd.com/1357/.
I don't have any legal rights to my free speech here yes. However rights really aren't about legality anyways. It's society's way of saying that we should uphold an idea because we feel it is overwhelmingly important to us that it is regardless of whatever reasons/evidence/etc.... Natural rights and legal rights are completely separate things. I have the natural right to post to this forum whatever I can and the mods have the natural and legal right to delete my posts and/or ban me. Please note that the way I'm using natural rights may not align entirely with wiki but stems from the belief that natural rights are the things that one can physically obtain/produce regardless of external pressures e.g no one can take my right away to think of Bill Murray as a lil ragamuffin. This is of course a weak basis for argument but is a construct I enjoy thinking about.
Ugh dear god...
Natural rights are an intellectual exercise to justify criticisms of a status quo that was thought to be divinely originated and therefore blasphemy to question. Natural rights were a rhetorical tool that built on ideas in the manga carta to justify ideas that vested power in the hands of the individual, because the natural right philosophers realized that the existing system was inefficient and harmful. They don't actually exist, as the 100,000 odd years of human history as a story of domination and violence demonstrates.
/rant
The back and forth about politeness and discussions and questions from new people (I'm new too not using that as a pejorative) really annoyed me. News flash: this is the weekly comic discussion forum, not an educate me about trans issues forum. It's a stunningly bad place for you to come and demand explanation/education. There's an entire thread for it, and it's PINNED. There's also a rules thread you should read before posting. If you're still feeling like you need more info, do some research or ask questions elsewhere, WE ARE HERE TO SQUEE AND HAVE EXTENDED ARGUMENTS ABOUT PANCAKES AND PRESCRIPTIVE VS DESCRIPTIVE PERSPECTIVES ON LANGUAGE.
No. I meant what I said. I never said anything about "disrespectful discussions in his forums" or "shouldn't have allowed a trans character in his comic to start a relationship". If the relationship itself is going to be one of the focal points people are going to have questions. Thats it. I like the development and hope that the fact that She is Trans has little impact on the future. The only point I am trying to get across with my previous statement is that by putting main character in this situation(maybe scenario would be a better word) it is going to make people think of questions that respectful people would not ask. Thoughts are nether good or bad, its the actions we take that make them good or bad.
Right, but every time someone pops up with "but I have questions" they get pointed to the relevant pre-existing threads and/or other resources and reminded not to discuss them in here because that historically leads to bad things Then, quite a lot of the time, they come back with "but why should I have to go over there and maybe learn something, I just wanna ask questions here!" or some rought equivalent.
I told you it was a weak argument and didn't align with the historical definition.
Hello, and welcome, and please give yourself an emergency crash course in transgender issues.
Claire's brain is set to female, and brains are biological, so "biologically a man" is imprecise language that will lead your thinking astray. The delivery room doctor probably checked "male" if that's what you're asking. Marten is flexible enough to realize that the person underneath is a woman despite accidents of birth.
Prepare for some serious brain-stretching as you study this!
I'm so going to be banned for this but remember who brought this male/female brain stuff into the discussion...
Claire is a lovely person who for some reason or reasons was sufficiently uncomfortable with the physical and social conditions imposed by the circumstances of her birth. So uncomfortable that she sought out to change those things and has succeeded to such an extent that the people around her though either ignorance or acceptance see Claire as what she chooses to present to the world. Good for her and good for Marten not having hangups that get in the way or perusing someone he likes, who likes him and would make a good match.
But this stuff about male and female brains is so much offensive crap!
A brain is a brain. To even suggest anything else is to buy into all that crap of boys are better than girl at... and girls are better than boys at... It reenforces misogynistic bullshit like women are too emotional or girls are bad at math. It says men are right every time they make an excuse up about how woman are supposed to behave because now their brains are like that not becuse form an early age they were trained by the pink asile at the toy store with little dolls and easy bake ovens while the Lego and blocks were in the blue aisle.
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.
Kindly read this before pressing the ban button. http://www.popsci.com/article/science/stop-looking-%E2%80%9Chardwired%E2%80%9D-differences-male-and-female-brains
Kindly talk to the friendly folks over here
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364184-LGBTAI-52-Aces-High
If you aren't already, I know that there's some QC fans in there (Last two pages have mentioned 2807, don't know about 2808)
*slinks back into lurking because he doesn't post often for comic stuff*
Had to make an account just incase I actually wanted to jump in here.
I think the most important question of all is this:
WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
There, I said it.
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
There, I said it.
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
There, I said it.
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
There, I said it.
I think the most important question of all is this:2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
There, I said it.
Tangentially, this is part of the reason I'm happy music references have mostly left the comic.
Jeph used to refer to pretty current bands for the first 2-3 years. But given 11 years have now passed, but in comic time, likely only 1-3 years (it's never been totally clear), you'd either need the music references to remain old (with the conclusion it's still in the mid 2000s in the comic), or to have had basically a decade of "real world" bands mentioned in a highly abbreviated time.
Regardless, although the main characters still haven't aged much, Jeph does let the mask slip that in some ways they've "aged" as he has. Like Marten mentioning how college freshmen look like high school kids to him now. You don't really think that at 26, but you sure start doing so when you hit 30.
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Like Marten mentioning how college freshmen look like high school kids to him now. You don't really think that at 26, but you sure start doing so when you hit 30.I'm 23 and I think that.
I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.
I think the most important question of all is this:2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.
Isn't that the one that Marten breeds in the back of his closet?Oh man, I really want to see Claire and Marten both in their "teh" shirts together.
I was wondering where she got that shirt... it seems to travel everywhere in this comic!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh
QuoteMusic being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
*grandpa simpson*
Awww bullshit - you kids and your Lady Gaga and your Kongos don't know nothin' about the Smiths and Echo and the Bunnymen!
*/grandpa simpson*
So, waiting for 2809. Not with quite the same levels of hope and anxiety of the last few weeks, but won't be surprised to be totally surprised, again ;-)
This.I just wanna know how a 24 year old is a Morrissey fan.
There, I said it.
Morrissey and The Smiths are huge in my age group, man. Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Nono, that's "meh" or sometimes "feh" but you must be careful not to confuse that last with "FEH", the initialism of noted Canadian comic artist Faith Hicks.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh)
Wow. I never got this reference. I always took it as an onomatopoeia of the sound someone would make to dismiss something as irrelevant or inconsequential. Example would be "Teh, whatever."
MOOOOM! Sig's being sour!
Seriously, man - I'll END you.
Just kidding.
Not really.
. Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Ocean Rain is a hell of a record.
QuoteOcean Rain is a hell of a record.
True facts from Mooski: First makeout was in a 72 Mustang with Killing Moon playing on the tape deck.
Ah, memories.
MOOOOM! Sig's being sour!Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?
Yes, I suspect it's one of those awesome vintage stores with the great big rack of evening wear and prom dresses dating from the '50's through the '80's. She probably got the pink dress in 2791 there (it could be an '80's prom dress), and the Smiths shirt.I think the most important question of all is this:2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
MOOOOM! Sig's being sour!Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?
(Also, the bird in Sig's scenario ... is it an unusually articulate dickcissel?)
MOOOOM! Sig's being sour!Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?
Can't wait to see everyone's reaction, especially Hannelore's. That "squee" will kill someone this time.Oh man, I never thought of that! *gets out the earplugs*
Very true. I listen to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NjssV8UuVA) when I need to get psyched.
Yes, I suspect it's one of those awesome vintage stores with the great big rack of evening wear and prom dresses dating from the '50's through the '80's. She probably got the pink dress in 2791 there (it could be an '80's prom dress), and the Smiths shirt.I think the most important question of all is this:2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.
WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397
I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them. But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.
I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them. But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.Unless she's going to a Firefly convention. (Ninja'd- iandanger, that's because it is)
Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.
sheet cake made of victory and talking owls [line stolen... I'm not that witty]
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Jesus H Tapdacing Christ, 20 pages by Wednesday
So, what for Thursday/Friday?
For whatever reason I always thought it was Kaylee's dress from Firefly: [jpg]That is an alarming amount of ruffle.
Yeah, nobody's objected to the newbies who came to squee.Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh
Wow. I never got this reference. I always took it as an onomatopoeia of the sound someone would make to dismiss something as irrelevant or inconsequential. Example would be "Teh, whatever."
I subscribe to the "if you don't know what your talking about keep your mouth shut" philosophyYeah, nobody's objected to the newbies who came to squee.Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Was the living proof at your finger tips?
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday? I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?
Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think. Any others?
And thus Sig gives voice to my hidden terror...So, waiting for 2809. Not with quite the same levels of hope and anxiety of the last few weeks, but won't be surprised to be totally surprised, again ;-)
First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday? I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?
Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think. Any others?
Natural rights were a rhetorical tool that built on ideas in the manga carta to justify ideas that vested power in the hands of the individual, because the natural right philosophers realized that the existing system was inefficient and harmful.
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday? I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?Emily admitting feelings for Marten would do it.
Yeah. I get the idea that Marten has been attracted to Claire, and likes her as a friend, but he's not really swooning over her. He's more thinking "Well, I'll give this a shot, why not?"
Nothing about that is said in the comic, and it's unlikely that jeph intends to address this.
Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday? I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?The easiest way to get the readers to talk is to get them emotionally invested. And the easiest way to do that is straight up trolling. Catastrophic event out of nowhere. Angus gets the call, but right as he picks up the scene switches to May taking a shower. With Steve. Who's eating cereal. In Momo's shower.
It'd be even more discussion if he were eating pancakes.
First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......
True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.Pancake-flavored cereal? Pancakes with cereal as an ingredient? Cereal that's been run over by a steamroller?
Nono. Marten wakes up, goes into the living room "I just had a dream I confessed my feelings to Claire"
Faye: "Who's Claire?"
Dun dun dun!
It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.
Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?
the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?
Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.
I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.
I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.
Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.
Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?
And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women. Do you want to claim that's the case?
Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior
Gender differences in behavior is a common occurence in many animals, not just humans. Female lab rats exposed to masculine hormones during certain stages of intrauterine development demonstrated more masculine beheavior patterns during adulthood including the way they respond to stress. Humans are not special beings unaffected by nature's laws.
You clearly demonstrate a lack of scientific education. Nothing wrong with that. People outside the scientific field are not obligued to. But it would be nice if people learned the basics before they accept anything they read on the internet.
I defend that the same way that there are different hair colors and shapes there are people with different affinities and tastes and variety makes the world beautiful. Each person is unique from before birth and not a simple white canvas waiting to be painting by nurturing
Hormones in rats have what to do with the behavior of pre-pubescent children? In one breath you claim behavior is innate and in the next that its hormonal and I'm the one who doesn't know science? Is that because I have girl brain or because estrogen induced a love of strawberry shortcake dolls kept me away from the science books with all those big words?
New people are good for the forum! They keep it alive.
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)
Warning - while you were typing 36 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.Wow
Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.
There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.
There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.
http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf
Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.
Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology. What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years.
I think as a reference you should use Cordelia Fine's excellent sceptical work on the subject. It shows just how much observer bias has historically existed regarding the sexual dimorphism of the brain, and the consequences therefrom.
The two extreme positions are:
* The Biologically Deterministic one. This observes (and historically manufactures from very little evidence) that the brain is sexually dimorphic, and then uses that to argue that females are inferior because biology, that all gendered behaviour is hard-wired, and in general a whole load of other paternalistic arrogant misogynist and nauseating pseudo-scientific drivel.
*The Social Constructionist one. This observes the awful, oppressive effects of the first, then reasons that the brain cannot be sexually dimorphic because that supports gender fascism and the dehumanisation of women, so ignores any evidence for it no matter how sound, and attacks anyone observing it, deeming them to be cruel oppressors trying to fool the public into going along with their nauseating and male chauvinist policies.
Of the two, the Social Constructionist one, despite its PoMo anti-scientific basis, is actually closer to reality than the first. 80% right. The second is 20% right. Both are significantly wrong, distorting any truth so it becomes useless.
Examples:
Boys and girls behave in different ways and one of the stereotypical behavioral differences between them, that has often been said to be forced upon them by upbringing and social environment, is their behavior in play. Boys prefer to play with cars and balls, whereas girls prefer dolls. This sex difference in toy preference is present very early in life (38 months of age) [1]. The idea that it is not society that forces these choices upon children but a sex difference in the early development of their brains and behavior is also supported by monkey behavioral studies. Alexander and Hines [2], who offered dolls, toy cars and balls to green Vervet monkeys found the female monkeys consistently chose the dolls and examined these ano-genitally, whereas the male monkeys were more interested in playing with the toy cars and with the ball....
Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005
Data show that increased male-typical toy play by girls with CAH cannot be explained by parental encouragement of male-typical toy play. Although parents encourage sex-appropriate behavior, their encouragement appears to be insufficient to override the interest of girls with CAH in cross-sexed toys.
I don't know about you, but the phrase "sex-appropriate behavior" sets my teeth on edge. It reminds me of the days when I was a child, when girls were supposed to be secretaries, not secretaries of state, beauticians not bankers, and all the rest of that infuriating Patriarchal BS.
However.... biology plays a role. Instincts exist.
If I can quote myself: http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-many-sexes.html
Let's start with the idea that there are male and female brains. They differ anatomically, and these differences correspond to different stereotyped behaviours, regardless of upbringing. This is most obvious in girls who have CAH, masculinised brains, and a male preference in play patterns, even though they have a normal female upbringing.
Now that we've established that idea, that it's objectively observable.. we have to tear it down. It's just the first step in Wittgenstein's ladder.
The brain is a complex structure, not a simple one. Any particular individual can have a more masculine anatomy in one area, a more feminine anatomy in others. The sexually dimorphic features have considerable overlap. Within any one area, few are unambiguously male or unambiguously female. The difference is statistical. Moreover, in the higher brain, hormonal balance plays a role in changing the brain's physical anatomy. Treat a male with female hormones, some of his brain structures will feminise. The brain is plastic in many areas, experiences and social environment causes physical changes, and much of what we call "gendered behaviour" is as the result of arbitrary socially constructed factors.
OK, understood that? Now discard it, it's the second step on the ladder.
The brain is not homogenous; different parts have different effects, and while some parts are plastic, others are not. While much "gendered behaviour" is a social construct, some is not, and is remarkably resistant to change. This is most obvious in Transsexual people, whose neuro-anatomy is female in some areas, male in others, and corresponds to neither in yet others. When the Lymbic nucleus is feminised, typically feminine emotional patterns are found, and these lead to a feminine gender identity. When the Superior Parietal Lobule (SPL) is feminised as well - as it often is - the "body map" is for female primary and secondary sex characteristics - breasts, vagina etc - and any mismatch with reality causes immense distress.
This also explains such observed phenomena as "phantom limb syndrome", and the widely variable emotional response to hysterectomy or mastectomy. Also too the variable response to any natural masculinisation of a female-at-birth body due to 5ARD or 17BHSD syndromes, which can cause a superficial "natural sex change".
What this means is that a binary model of sex and gender is merely a rough approximation. A better one is a trinary one, with male, female, and bigendered (approximately 1/3 in each category). But that still doesn't capture the multi-variance and fuzziness of the situation adequately. A small percentage won't fit either model, or indeed, any such gross over-simplification.
References (to substantiate my assertions):
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301312.
White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. - Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.
Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005
Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure by Pol et al, Europ Jnl Endocrinology, Vol 155, suppl_1, S107-S114 2006
Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: How Does One Know if One is Male or Female? M.Diamond Sex Roles (2006) 55:589600
Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. Cohen-Kettenis PT. Arch Sex Behav. 2005 Aug;34(4):399-410.
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.Sounds like you got a succubus infestation there boss. Right nasty one too. No worries though, we'll soon get that sorted. Just so happens we got a fresh batch of succu-bane in last week too, so I won't have to mess around with the dosages either. Now, will that be cash or souls?
On the subject, do we have a canon age for Marten? My head-canon has always been something about this:
- Dora is the oldest regular - No older than early 30s; probably 29-31;
- Marten, Faye, Angus & Hannelore - 25-29 range;
- Everyone else is in roughly the Augustus kids' age range - 21 at the youngest to 25 at the oldest;
- Sam holds the record at the moment as the youngest biological character at 13;
- We know that Jim, Veronica and Henry are all in their mid-50s (Veronica being explicity stated to be 56, IIRC).
How old are all the characters?
Hanners and Marigold are only 21 or 22, Marten and Faye and the bulk of the cast are 24-25, Doras 26, Svens 27, etc etc etc I have a million characters
How many people younger than you do you hang out with Hodgy?
I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him, but I think this might be a tipping point. It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more. I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move. Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus? I just...
I don't see it.
Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much. Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)
I registered just to say that I'm with you guys. We are the Three Caballeros!
That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.
Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed. Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.
I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.
[...] does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.I count three, maybe four--Faye, Dora, Padma, maaaaaybe Lt. Potter (but she may have just been the first random attractive lady he met when he was trying to forget Padma rather than someone he would ever have been seriously into). I take this as a positive change, though.
I think Faye and Dora were more than just "hot girls" to Marten; otherwise he woudn't have such meaningful friendships with them now that there's no prospect of bangin'.I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.
Is Claire just another 'girl in his vicinity?' Or can someone explain the substance of Martin's attraction? He doesn't seem the type of guy to pick up girls on the street or have brief relationships, which suggests substance is likely important to him.
Thanks - that was interesting reading. Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.
I'm glad I'm not the only person this has happened to. I had a couple of dreams like that, both with the same person -- who, I should mention, was someone I'd never seen or met in my waking hours. They were incredibly vivid, to a point that both times I spent days afterward wondering if this was something that had happened that I'd somehow forgotten or something. It was a really disturbing experience.
By way of a postscript, I read Tom's post on the Jungian aspect of the whole thing, and while it's interesting, it doesn't entirely ring true to me; I've never feared, much less tried to repress, my feminine side, so I don't think it's that...
Ignoring the rest of your post and the discussion of Marten/Claire as a pairing, I just have to comment on this. I hatehatehate the idea that someone has to be swooning over someone to be genuinely, non-passively, interested. If Marten had been completely visible about his interest in her (he had shown some inconclusive hints), I'd probably think it was creepy if anything. People can keep their feelings to themselves, and people can have strong feelings without being overwhelmed by them.
I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.
Possibly answered already, and not quite canon, and 3 years old but Jeph has spoken on this in the past:
From Jeph's Tumblr 3 years ago (http://jephjacques.com/post/11019116861/qa-dump-07):QuoteHow old are all the characters?
Hanners and Marigold are only 21 or 22, Marten and Faye and the bulk of the cast are 24-25, Dora’s 26, Sven’s 27, etc etc etc I have a million characters
Claire and Marten are just about the same age.
Finally registered in order to weigh in on Marten's feelings for Claire, and how they manifested themselves. I don't see any of this as sudden - rather, I think he's been falling for the longest time. I think a significant - telling - moment came at http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432, when his reaction to her running from the room was questions; the right questions. "Are you okay? Do you need help? Is there anything I can do?" All about Claire, and finding out how she feels. And while he boiled his long declaration down to a few words, about how he felt, and hoped she felt, I think the (abbreviated) long version was something along the lines of (after talking with Claire and Tai): "I realize I don't know what I want out of my job (it's not my dream job), but I do know what I want in my life: you." :claireface: From experience, I can say, that happens.
True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.Pancake-flavored cereal? Pancakes with cereal as an ingredient? Cereal that's been run over by a steamroller?
Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.
Heh... it occurs to me that this is a first for ClaireMom too.
As for matters pancakey - by pure coincidence (we'd arranged it weeks earlier) we sojourned to the Pancake Parlour last night. They run a sampler night every wednesday. Pricey (even at half price) but nicey.
...
That was 18 hours ago. I'm still in a state of happy pancake-filled repletion, and might start getting an appetite in another 8-10 hours or so.
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us :-) )
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us :-) )
Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us :-) )
Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".
Of course she knows, she is a mom.
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us :-) )
Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".
Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us :-) )
Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".
Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing
Aren't they outside talking and cuddling on the porch?
Somehow doubt that the Mom/Daughter relationship is the kind where Claire would take her boyfriend upstairs while Mom eats cereal.
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now
With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?
I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now
With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?
It must be the porch - the top of the stairs (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2804) looks completely different.
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
Exactly! I'm 28 and I listen to Paul Simon (his old, good stuff like There Goes Rhymin' Simon and Graceland), ELO, Supertramp, and Scott Joplin. I'm convinced my love of ragtime was instilled by a childhood spent with Super Mario Bros.
She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us :-) )
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.
Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.
I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)
See?
Trivia for Paul: George Harrison was doing final mixing for "Blue Jay Way" on my birthday.
EDIT: Aaaaand I just flipped us to 22 pages. :psyduck:
"Says the gentleman whose birth preceded the release of The White Album by a year and a few weeks..."
Aside from their love of books, in what way are Penelope and Claire similar at all?
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMPI know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.
This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.
HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.
You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.
So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.QuoteDora called him 'pretty vanilla.'
Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
I'm trying to find a transwoman to date that isn't a pro.
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMPI know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.
This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.
HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.
You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.
So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.QuoteDora called him 'pretty vanilla.'
Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
So. I'm new. I don't really lurk. I just stop in from time to time to satisfy the "OMG!! DIDYOUSEETHAT?!?" reflex.
I finally have something to say.
Let me, further, preface this by explaining that I am a lapsed writer. Despite all the words written about how you are no writer if you aren't writing, I still claim the title. I never stop thinking about how to write, about how elements of story, theme and character come together. And I still write stuff. I just never finish anything. I'm not claiming any authority here. Just explaining that what follows is coming from a place of story analysis. A place that exists only in my head, admittedly.
I'm trying to find a transwoman to date that isn't a pro.I had to reread that three times before I could believe someone posted it.
Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world?Phew... I haven't fallen into a parallel universe of <rude word>s. I'm not a trans woman, I'm an East Asian woman, but some aspects of fetishisation and objectification are not dissimilar (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MeLoveYouLongTime).
Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.
Thanks. I might take you up on that. Right now my focus is desperately on paying the bills. Still developing, though. Like I implied, winging it is not one of my skills.
But, you never know. Things might turn 'round before November. If they do, perhaps I'll have developed something I want to write. :)
Edit to add total agreement with AprilArcus's analysis. Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.
This is Jeph's storytelling genius - he is talking about deeply personal, deeply political issues entirely through subtext. Everything we need to know to understand who Claire is and why she acts the way she does is there on the page, but he's not going to put it into words that someone else can twist; he's going to show-not-tell us the very painful, complicated stuff going on this person's head and rely on our smarts to reassemble it.
Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.
SHAMELESS SELF-BUMPI know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.
This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.
HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2405) her interest (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2445) very subtly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2785), in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.
You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2099) showed him that life would pass him by (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2442) if he didn't learn (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2098) to be proactive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2101). He's been trying to figure out what he really wants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1982). He knows it isn't casual sex (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2672). He does know that he likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2322) being around (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2362) Claire, and that she likes him back (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803). And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2613) to seek out what he wants.
So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.QuoteDora called him 'pretty vanilla.'
Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) and Marten (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2808) are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.
Is careful, patient story-telling that shows rather than tells (thanks AprilArcus) just less common these days?
(Snip)
I've heard it, and I'm Texan. Maybe you just need to hang out with smart people more often. :wink:
I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.
...
I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.
...
Ah yes, I used the wrong quote, and I can see why my comments didn't make any sense with respect to your thoughts about retiring and aggression. Sorry about that, I wasn't being critical of you and AprilArcus - if indeed that is how you read my comments.
I probably shouldn't be doing this at work ;-)
Not at all upset. My default assumption is that something I said was unclear.
Until I'm sure that isn't the case, I keep calm and try to provide more details.
I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:
In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.I agree so much with this. It either makes me want to fall back asleep and just embrace unconsciousness rather than dealing with the feeling or I'm left feeling like I've lost a significant part of me for a good chunk of the day.
I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2205) in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370) shortly after, digs into (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2448) Faye fearlessly (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2536), doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2540), and makes no secret (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653) of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2278) and humiliate (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305) her brother, and refuses (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426) to put up with his overprotective schtick.
I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:
Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2449) Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>
While the rest of your post makes some fair points, this section seems off to me, in that the examples you're providing don't seem to constitute "dominant" behavior. She jokes around, she speaks her mind, she teases her sibling, but she doesn't try to control the situation. She's not throwing her (admittedly rather light, from the look of it) weight around. She's direct, she's open about her thoughts, but I wouldn't call that "dominant" behavior. Maybe you're using the term in a different manner than I'm interpreting it, but I think of Faye or Dora's behavioral patterns as dominating in that they literally dominate people. Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2449) Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>
If anything I'd say she sometimes speaks before considering consequences. She's intelligent and not afraid of sharing her thoughts; that's not the same as taking on a leadership role.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have questioned your dominance. You may wish to cow them into submission.
I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:
One of the things that is really blowing my mind at the moment - pushed along by the kind of analyses you and AprilArcus and other folk have been providing - is how sophisticated Jeph's storytelling is. I'm accustomed to this in other forms of literature, but I don't see it in web comics. That's probably pure snobbery on my part, I know, and I simply haven't read enough to be able to make that kind of judgement.
The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.You sure about that? He's received more than a few dents by her hand.
Call me a fanboy, if you will. I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the craft to say that Jeph is either a master planner or a talented storyteller. Practice is part of it. Dedication to craft and character... I don't want to make it sound like magic. It's better than that. It's skill.
Ninja skill.
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
Yeah.... Considering that they haven't even had their first date yet, "I like you" is a perfectly good starting point; it doesn't have to be "ohmigod I'm crazy about you."
I don't think Marten is madly deliriously crazy about Claire; I think he likes her and has just recently discovered some romantic/physical chemistry with her, and he wants to see where that leads. 'Cause, hey, who wouldn't want to see where that leads? It can lead to amazing places.
After trying. Really trying.
I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.You sure about that? He's received more than a few dents by her hand.
Thanks! I'll try not to put my foot in it.
Ok, you're a fanboy ;-) Enthusiasm leading to good critical thinking and writing should always be welcome, though.
After trying. Really trying.
I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!
blushing in little hatssssThey'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!
Yes. Yessss!
Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.
If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.
If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
thanks AprilArcus for taking the time to archive crawl and find all those references.
Hi, yet another Newbie here.
[...]
Her most masculine features (the angular jawline, the large hands, and the slight adam's apple) are all still there
[...]
I really hope that didn't cross the "do not talk about" line. If it did, I apologize.
Some posts are just too damn long. They may be interesting, but the length just makes me lose interest.
There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...
There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...Unless it is OTT and clearly a joke, as in one of my previous (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30098.msg1265318.html#msg1265318) posts (although I got reprimanded for that one as well).
Nah, this is about Doctor Who. Who wants to be attracted to somebody not liking Doctor Who ! Thats totally different than just taste in music.If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html
Nah, this is about Doctor Who. Who wants to be attracted to somebody not liking Doctor Who ! Thats totally different than just taste in music.If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2453) that much.
Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html
Emily is not exactly good at keeping secrets (as shown here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2573)). There is a distinct possibility that Emily might "out" Claire to the others (probably by accident, not by malice). This will no doubt hurt Claire if it ever happens.Claire trusted two people. Marten and Emily. I trust her judgment. Also, I thought Emily's reaction was pretty cool.
Why is there such a great amount of people going 'no way could Marten actually have feelings for Claire!'?
I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women. Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.' He doesn't seem to have made any striking life changes. He didn't seem to have any particular connection with Claire, aside from it "feeling natural."
After trying. Really trying.
I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
Given Marten's track record with women (Moved clear across country for one, hooked up for "years" before being dumped for trust issues, had one till SHE moved clear across the country, one's still in space, and the other needs a shave and an infusion of zinc), he's not exactly the kind to be......lucky with them. I think history is gonna bite him back in the butt somehow.
D's grooming habits non-withstanding why does she need zinc?
It was a long time since I felt this emotionally invested in a work of fiction, to tell the truth. Maybe one reason is that we only get a little piece at a time, (one strip per day) that events that play out in a few minutes takes a long time to tell because of it.
That said, I can see Claire, as the loyal girlfriend, suffering through Deathmole's first concert, mostly because I can see her being daring and squeezing into a leather waistcoat and trousers (believing that to be the uniform of the day, based on a half-understood off-hand comment from Hannelore). Naturally, she finds herself surrounded by more conventionally-dressed alternative rock fans.
"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"
"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"
"Whoa! Lucky dude!"
Naturally, it will be when she is in that get-up that Clinton catches up with them and accuses Marten of 'corrupting' Claire; she objects, loudly, and one of the hall's bouncers takes this as a license to throw Clinton out of the venue for trying to start a fight. Things only escalate from there.
Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?
Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/
The expression on Claire's mother's face takes on a whole new meaning in light of panel 3 of this strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1041). :-D
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/
That was an enlightening read. Thank you! I guess I'm just a simple guy at heart, I don't care what's there as much as being with someone willing to let me discover for myself.
In regards to Claire and Clairemom's glasses... farsightedness is a thing.
"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"
"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"
"Whoa! Lucky dude!"
No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!
No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!
But are you a fellow NBN player as well?
There's a part of me that wants to see a 4th wall breaking comic for tomorrow...
After trying. Really trying.
I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!
After trying. Really trying.
I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!
Liiiiies! I had to find it again, but my majestic duck dragon has returned. Though Claire blushing is nice for some, I like my own stuff more.
I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!
I think there's another dynamic in play here; one that is quite subtle, and possibly not a conscious plot by Jeph, but it is there nonetheless.
I talk of the issue of Marten's "passivity". I quote this because it is a social construct as much as anything else coming up in this discussion: the societal expectation of a man is that he will be driven to pursue a career, that he will be looking for success. Marten suffers because he does not live up to that image, he outright tells us; and many forumgoers are quite harsh on him, he should "man up" and start taking more initiative, showing more drive.
This social construct has been deconstructed multiple times in fiction, most famously in 'Death of a Salesman' by Arthur Miller and 'Hurry on Down' by John Wain. And whether subconsciously or consciously, I think Jeph is doing the same here.
While he is worrying over his attitude to life, Claire shows up and shows him the good side of his personality: the willingness to just enjoy the moment and judge things as he finds them. What Claire has to offer here is at least a partial validation that it is good to not be all driven all the time.
And as a parting thought: John Wain's book gives an out for the person that wants to opt out of the social rat-race: become an entertainer, a commentator from the sidelines of the rat-race. Isn't that just what Marten is working on? Maybe a relationship with Claire can give him that final push to throw away social expectations and fully throw himself into the band, or maybe even revitalise his attempt at music criticism.
I couldn't give less of a fuck how long a woman's armpit hair is. In fact, if it's longer, it holds more sweat, and I love pit stench on my lovers. This is probably more than you needed to know about me (although way less than any of the regulars know already) but I'm angry so hopefully, if D still 'needs a shave' in your view, I'll have grossed you out as much as your post grossed me out.(click to show/hide)
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?
[REDACTED]
Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.This had me thinking about Misako Kurata from "Childs Toy" though in her case it was either a chipmunk or a squirrel, depending on the translation.
If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.
Kinda disappointed in your spoiler, Gareth. I fully expected a woman with some truly resplendent body hair. ;)
I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!
FTFY.I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the greater good!*
Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.
If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.
Garbage.
Of course, if Claire ever does get a haircut, we'll probably see all sorts of things scattered among the curls on the salon floor... I suppose a squirrel or chipmunk may have been trapped there accidentally, along with assorted leaves, dandelion seeds, candy wrappers, etc. (cue Emily: "So THAT's where my ring went!").
There are like, a hundred other ways to have sex.
No squirrel needed: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2360 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2360)
I'm convinced that Claire's floofy hair is actually a sentient organism and the first time Marten does that whole 'resting chin on her head' thing that couples like to do when they're snuggling it'll attach itself to his face and Marten will finally have that bitchin' beard that just cannot grow.
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...
Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.
And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...
Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.
Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
Great, now I want a QC minecraft server. I don't even play minecraft anymore.
The real question is if claire gets it cut will she get the hairstylist that is making the hair tunnel.
I'll mention it to my son. He's eager to learn programming so that he can create Minecraft mods. He's planning to make the "Random Bizarre Stuff That Sounds Cool to a 9-Year-Old Kid" mod.Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
Great, now I want a QC minecraft server. I don't even play minecraft anymore.
We have one. Check the thread in the "Click" forum.
FTFY.I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the greater good!*
I, too, hate the stereotypes that come along with being a gamer/geek/etc., but of all the negative stereotypes out there, I see way this one reinforced every time I go to a convention. It's kind of sad, really.
FTFY.I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the greater good!*
I, too, hate the stereotypes that come along with being a gamer/geek/etc., but of all the negative stereotypes out there, I see way this one reinforced every time I go to a convention. It's kind of sad, really.
Dealing with the community online is almost worse, people who despise inclusiveness come out of the woodwork so fast, God forbid the topic of female space marines comes up and the descent into madness is swift.
I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!
So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?
[No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)
Depending on the system.And so is the secret behind Claire's hair. She didn't want to grow it long, she just can't afford the diamond shears to cut it...
Besides, there isn't a crafting recipe for diamond shears, just iron shears.
Wait. Someone will do the mod sooner or later.
I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134# (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#)
Edit: looks like what I said wasnt posted
In my warhammer fantasy group one of the guys actually has a full chaos dwarf army. I only got my lowly Death Korps of Krieg and a few forgeworld knights
My friend actually has one. I just have a lowly death korp army with a few forgeworld knights
Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!
So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?
No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)
[No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)
Or 4000 points of Squats.
Too bad the Commissar assassinated every single Squat in the galaxy.[No, only when you have a Chaos Dwarf army can you be vindicated. (I like big hats and I can't deny...)
Or 4000 points of Squats.
Great job man
Well, dang, son.
Btw mate
hurf burf I'm an idiot
Ŧ Last Edit: Today at 11:44 AM by jeph ŧ
Great job manWell, dang, son.Btw mate
I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:
(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)
Believe it or not latin was an extremely masculine language and you see that in all languages that have a roots in latin much like english. So I wouldnt take it that hard
Thanks for that, sister.
No problem, its learning how to not take things at face value. Its an important life lesson
No problem, its learning how to not take things at face value. Its an important life lesson
Oh life, will your important lessons never cease?
Life is the worst teacher ever. Not only can the classes start at any time of the day you don't even get a chance to study.
Oh life, will your important lessons never cease?
I think most likely, Marten will admit to feelings he has for Claire and will say that if she's nervous or trepidatious, he can give her time until she's ready to make that step. To which Claire will interrupt him mid-sentence with a kiss.
If this happens, I will buy you ten of whatever you're drinking/eating.
"I drank what?"
- Socrates
Great job manWell, dang, son.Btw mate
I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:
(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)
[...] Society at large values the "Alpha" male (a phrase I've never liked, and dislike all the more since the "Men's Rights" crowd got hold of it), and has no idea what in the hell to do with people who don't, prefer not to, or can't be bothered to, conform to that role. On the other hand, as pretty much anybody who isn't cis/white/male/hetero is likely to tell you, society hasn't quite got the hang of them, either.
Oops. Sorry. Will an apology hug and cookie suffice?
Careful with the hair! Or is that supposed to be a revenge-hug?
It was sort of a weird way of putting D in a negative bucket with the rest of Marten's exes, and a bit of a reach as well. Probably needs to reel that in a bit, but errbody should have a chance or three to recognize how their default responses to things can affect others.
With any luck, it'll just be 'oops, sorry about that,' and not 'dude, get a thicker skin.'
He responds: "Well, I wanted to make absolutely certain that my interest was -- CLAIRE!"
That's a slender reed to build a relationship on.
Great job manWell, dang, son.Btw mate
I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:
(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)
Oops. Sorry. Will an apology hug and cookie suffice?
(http://i.imgur.com/ZWX1gNJ.png)
And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself. ...
What I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous to assume use of the masculine default is pernicious: it is part of the evolution of languages to become inclusive, and some chose to use the masculine as gender-neutral inclusive, while others use the feminine. Languages evolve; societies evolve. Even Pokémon evolve. Two hundred years ago, there where slavery; a hundred years ago, there was segregation. Now? Now we're a bunch of expletives discussing language instead of pancakes, like any civilized culture should do.
Great job manWell, dang, son.Btw mate
I don't have the spoons to articulate an eloquent position on the pernicious assumption that is the "masculine default", so I'm just going to quote Claire:
(http://i.imgur.com/wFiPICn.png)
And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself.
I live and work in Guadalajara, Mexico, and therefore, I speak Spanish everyday. Here, all young people use a word: Ŧgüeyŧ. It is a corruption of Ŧbueyŧ, that is, an ox or a bullock, itself a bovine trained as a draft animal, commonly a castrated adult male cattle. Everyone use it as a familiar and funny way to refer to a friend, not only present, but with whom you are speaking directly at; we use it as an intensifier, to attract attention to something or someone, as a nickname, as an insult and as a punctuation sign.
Cue the examples:
How are you, güey?
Güey, you missed the most amazing party ever, güey!
Can you believe what that güey is doing rignt now?!
Güey, where have you been!?
You're exceptionally güey today, güey...
Now, and this is important, Ŧgüeyŧ has changed from an insult used between adult males to a general-use word in less than ten years.
In 1980, it was used just as an insult among the older male population; whom actually understand what a Ŧbueyŧ was.
By 1986, after the Big Quake on Mexico City in 1985, and as a result of massive migration, young males started to use it as an insult.
By 1887, young girls started to use it as an expletive.
By 1989, everyone was using it as an insult without knowing what an ox was.
By 1992, Ŧgüeyŧ was an unisex word and forgot all its original meaning, while Ŧbueyŧ still means Ŧoxŧ.
In any of the examples I delivered before, you CAN'T tell, without context, if it was pronounced by a man, a woman, or a chimera. It used to mean "emasculated bull" and now it means "dude". And it is used by boys to refer to boys, boys to refer to girls, girls to refer to boys, and girls to refer to girls, and a fukken lot of combinations and permutations between sexes and genders and whatever.
I use dude, mate, guy, bloke and even boy as a unisex word. Not gender neutral, but unisex, because usually, where I work and teach, men are majority and we see women as human beings, therefore, we integrate them in our language. It happens to me when I go to a place with a majority of women; they tend to see me as a big-stuff lifter, but still I'm a human being, and I don't mind if they refer to me, when I'm in the group, as Ŧgirlŧ. I didn't mind when, in Italy and Germany, the feminine plural was used for our group of students, even if we where 25 guys and 10 girls; it's the way it is.
What I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous to assume use of the masculine default is pernicious: it is part of the evolution of languages to become inclusive, and some chose to use the masculine as gender-neutral inclusive, while others use the feminine. Languages evolve; societies evolve. Even Pokémon evolve. Two hundred years ago, there where slavery; a hundred years ago, there was segregation. Now? Now we're a bunch of expletives discussing language instead of pancakes, like any civilized culture should do.
Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Just four?! We're getting slow...
Also, I'm fairly confident that if anyone tried to cut Claire's hair it would simply break the clippers/scissors. That girl has some THICK hair.
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?I think it's awesome that you can read that a character is trans and be so comfortable with that fact that you can forget all about it and focus on other things about her. In a perfect world, we'd all be a lot less inclined to identify people by such things. Go you.
- It demonstrates disregard for my transgender history. Being referred to with masculine terminology can be triggering for trans women, due to our history of having to fight against public misperception.
I am not what you could call a man, even if I look like one. I am a chimera of XY, XX and XXY chromosomes. My DNA depends which part of my body you're testing. My birth certificate is blank in the square marked "sex". I am my own twin sister and my own twin brother. I am not exactly a man, nor a woman, and the only way I can have offspring is by cloning. Yeah, I know what it means not to fit in a society. Yet I fit, I fight, and I man up. Of I human being up, if you prefer.
Being trans or intersex does not make someone incapable of transphobia or gender essentialism, and should not be whipped out as a sort of Palladium when called out on poor behavior. I've done transphobic things in the past, despite being trans. I've also hurt people's feelings by belaboring an intellectual point when empathy was the course of action called for.
Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?
And allow me to show you a little bit of how languages work and get moulded by society itself.
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?
Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?
You mean I'll agree to keep getting upset when people casually misgender me, and you'll agree to keep calling people "ridiculous" when they express dismay at being casually misgendered?
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.
(http://i.imgur.com/OQ4xcNA.png)
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.
Also: Holy crap, we're at 25 pages and we don't even have Friday's strip yet. We might break 30 by the time it's over.
Tastes vary; seems like you're intelligent enough to recognize that just because you don't feel something doesn't mean no one does, and that if someone tells you something hurts them, you'd give it a miss out of basic decency.
I believe we don't achieve anything if we don't do something for fear of hurting someone whom may or may not exist.
Sorry to hear about you being sick; hope you feel better soon.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
If the sub-plot goes one more day, here's what I'd like to see:I misread this somewhat like how it's edited- Basically, Claire says she's happy Marten was open and honest, then goes :claireface: and we're not sure why
Marten and Claire disengage from their snuggle-hug, and she says how glad she is that Marten was so open and honest.
He responds: "Well, I wanted to make absolutely certain that my interest was -- CLAIRE!"
And then gets that same goofy expression that Claire gets when she's just made a pun and she's waiting for the other person to get it . . . . :claireface:
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
Australians mate with people as a form of greeting?
Have you not watched the Discovery Channel?
That is, pairs like "actor"/"actress" level towards the masculine "actor", but feminine words like "stewardess" are never extended to include males, they are replaced with terms like "flight attendant".
Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.
Dum spiro, spero.For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.
The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by schoolboys to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.
Tai is one of us.
ONE OF US
ONE OF US
First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.
Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?
You mean I'll agree to keep getting upset when people casually misgender me, and you'll agree to keep calling people "ridiculous" when they express dismay at being casually misgendered?
Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.
http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O (http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O)
Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.
I use dude, mate, guy, bloke and even boy as a unisex word. Not gender neutral, but unisex, because usually, where I work and teach, men are majority and we see women as human beings, therefore, we integrate them in our language. It happens to me when I go to a place with a majority of women; they tend to see me as a big-stuff lifter, but still I'm a human being, and I don't mind if they refer to me, when I'm in the group, as Ŧgirlŧ. I didn't mind when, in Italy and Germany, the feminine plural was used for our group of students, even if we where 25 guys and 10 girls; it's the way it is.
Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.And THAT is why Tai is crazy about her.
Why surprised? Look at their group- full of different types of people. You have straight people, gay people, bi-sexual people, people who like anime a little too much, people who don't like to be touched, someone who punched a robot for no good reason... it seems like this group would be okay with whatever goes on, honestly.
First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.
We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"
Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.
English is mostly made of words "borrowed" words, I don't see why we shouldn't assimilate hän (him/her) and hänen (his/hers), I know they won't be used in everyday conversation, but it could make it easier for inter gendered people to describe themselves, or when online when you're not sure about fellow forum members.There are a plethora of "third gender" pronouns that already enjoy some non-standard use in the English of queer circles, such as sie/hir, xie/xir, ey/em. hän could certainly join them, but would probably meet with the same degree of mainstream success. Meanwhile, "singular they" has seen some degree of adoption by news media as a gender-neutral option.
Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.
Dum spiro, spero.For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.
The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by schoolboys to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 8-)
In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.
First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.
Also, Clairaten: Sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeee (first time I've ever said that, because "YES!!!" (fist pump) simply doesn't cut it)
Dora/Tai also are up in the air as well. Tai may be a Lesbian and probably LBGQT (or however it's acronymed....) aware/friendly, it's kinda hard to gauge if she does know or how she would react. Dora.......I dunno. She's gone wishy-washy with her relationships, and has made some SERIOUS blunders relationship wise, so I wouldn't put it past her to completely fuck up this situation somehow.
Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.Pintsize likes his vulgarity to take effort. I think on this, he'll be (surprisingly: Marten would probably wonder if Pintsize got overwritten by a reasonable AI) good about this.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.
We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.
You would think that, but trans feminine and trans masculine crowds tend to have very different things going on, especially at a school like Smif, where (if it's like Smith College) one group (trans guys) are very accepted, and another (trans women) are viewed with open suspicion (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/opinion/sunday/who-are-womens-colleges-for.html). Tai could easily know half a dozen trans guys and not a single trans woman, and be completely ignorant to the issues particular to Claire's situation.
Personally, I think the shape of Pintsize's vulgarity on this will end up in the "too helpful" category. He'll just weird out Marten instead of being stupidly offensive.I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.
I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?TERFs tend to belong to an older generation, and operate in blatantly malicious ways. Tai and her friends are more likely to just be ignorant - they may not even know that their college's admissions polices effectively bar trans women from applying as undergraduates.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.
The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently
[
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.
I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".
I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender.
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.
I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".
TERFs tend to belong to an older generation, and operate in blatantly malicious ways. Tai and her friends are more likely to just be ignorant - they may not even know that their college's admissions polices effectively bar trans women from applying as undergraduates.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.
The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently
I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender. Albeit I hang out with a lot of sailors and Marines who are my legit ship and mess mates, but "mate" is a serious reach.
[
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs in use relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.[
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
I agree that no one will say anything malicious, but as I've said earlier in the thread, it could bring up some of Dora's old insecurities. (there was a comic about her asking if Marten would be happier if she had a wang.) I agree that if anyone, it's be Marten's male friends that might raise an eyebrow. Again, a perfect opportunity for Marten to show some initiative and take a proper lead in the conversation.
Also, don't assume everyone from 4chan is a terrible person. :wink:
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.[
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?
The word gets thrown around so casually and used to silence legitimate disagreements. When it moves from being applied to scum like Cathy Brennan into being applied to anyone who argues that gender is a social construct it becomes a slur.
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.[
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
I have resolved to re-read QC in its entirety.Ganbarekudasai!
Wish me luck, ladies, gents, and everything in between and/or variations thereof. I'll see you on the other side of the Feels Express.
There goes Tai, speaking for a large segment of the forum. :-D
I just hope they don't vocally read too much into things the next time they see one of them. That could be awkward, given that this may be one of the first relationships in the QCverse that's actually taking things slow and easy (for the moment, anyway).
If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.[
Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?
TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?
Took the words right out of my mouth. Well, that, and I don't tend to worry as much about the feelings of people who spend their time denigrating other people, as well as denying either their existence or right to exist (referring here to TERFs, not to valkygrrl, whose motives and alignment I don't known and so won't impugn).
ETA: I'm referring specifically to the likes of Cathy Brennan, valkygrrl. I don't disagree with the idea that gender is essentially a social construct; I disagree with dehumanizing people (to say nothing of the fact that their rhetoric and actions discredit feminism generally, to the point where I wonder if they were either influenced, or invented, by the "Men's Rights" crowd).
I see it as an accurate description, and certainly wouldn't use it as a slur. However, with that being said, if my using the term offended you, please accept my apologies.
While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?
Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
Faye probably assumes as much given recent events (Unless Jeph drops a bombshell......). How she is about transgendered folks is up in the air, seeing we can't assume from the facts that she has a Lesbian Sister (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=164) and works with a Boss that is in a Lesbian relationship. While she is front the south, she does mention that she hates the religious attitude of the place. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=625)
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?
Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
I have used singular they in essays and not lost any points because of it. The simple fact is this: we won't adopt a new, gender neutral pronoun. There are too many proposals and no single regulatory body for English to enforce the change. What if MLA adopted xe/xir and APA adopted sie/hir, while the media used singular they? That's a massive amount of confusion and inconsistency that could easily be resolved by simply allowing the language to evolve naturally and adopting the most common usage. My point is that the language will probably not evolve to include an entirely new neuter pronoun. Though not common, singular they has been used for a long time (since Chaucer) as a gender neutral, singular pronoun, so I would expect that to be the direction our language goes in. On top of that, American exposure to British media is at the highest point it's ever been. Britishisms are entering American speech more and more, so I'd also expect the British usage to be adopted by America rather than have America invent a new pronoun.Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?
Ideally we don't have plural and singular cases used in the same sentence. More importantly it means people make grammatical mistakes they aren't aware of in formal writing because the informal form is considered wrong. Ideally we adopt a new word for it.
That doesn't change the state of play in formal American English, where they is a plural pronoun, and using it in reference to a singular antecedent will lose you grade points. The fact that this change has occurred in British English doesn't mean it will be accepted in the US, adopting a proper neuter pronoun would be ideal, yo.
The simple fact is this: we won't adopt a new, gender neutral pronoun. There are too many proposals and no single regulatory body for English to enforce the change.
Which is precisely why I say we let the language evolve as we always have.The simple fact is this: we won't adopt a new, gender neutral pronoun. There are too many proposals and no single regulatory body for English to enforce the change.(click to show/hide)
Wait, "yo" is a pronoun? I thought it was an informal greeting.It is an informal greeting in most of the country, except in Baltimore, where it is apparently a gender neutral pronoun. Personally, I want to know how that particular evolution of language happened and who allowed it, so we can punish them.
I have resolved to re-read QC in its entirety.
Wish me luck, ladies, gents, and everything in between and/or variations thereof. I'll see you on the other side of the Feels Express.
Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.
I know he doesn't want to use Claire as a drama bomb, but I do have to admit if there were some drama I'd be interested to see how Marten reacted to it.
It occurs to me that Faye may be suspecting sexy shenanigans without knowing that Claire is trans... I wonder if that means anything...?
:claireface:
I have a degree in formal linguistics and I am familiar enough with the process of language change to know that the scenario you describe - semantic leveling from marked masculine terms to unmarked neuter terms - does not happen in reverse. That is, pairs like "actor"/"actress" level towards the masculine "actor", but feminine words like "stewardess" are never extended to include males, they are replaced with terms like "flight attendant". I recommend Deborah Tannen's essay, "Marked Woman, Unmarked Man (http://faculty.georgetown.edu/tannend/nyt062093.htm)" for an introduction to this topic.
Well, then someone forgot to tell this to English, since we already have a pronoun that is both singular and plural, "you".
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
Doesn't mean Martenmom would recognize Claire as being a trans woman. Tai lives her alt status. It's her style. Claire is very clean cut and "feminine" for lack of a better term. Trans women and men don't look like anything in particular, besides women and men, and fucking hell even keeping the gender binary in place have you seen how many varieties we come in?Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.
We are talking about a woman who used to beat people for a living and was/possibly very active in the Fetish Community now. Plus given she knows people in some circles, (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831) I wouldn't put it past her to possibly "recognize" Transgendered folks and other "Alt-Sex" folks. She did this with Tai in a completely spontaneous and risky manner. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1822) Of course she does talk before thinking: she did this with Hanners. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1824)I know he doesn't want to use Claire as a drama bomb, but I do have to admit if there were some drama I'd be interested to see how Marten reacted to it.
Veronica did note once Marten was into pushy women. So maybe he's a pushover. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=447)
All remnants of monarchy including speech patterns will improve humanity drastically by being purged from it utterly.Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
I wanna know what Dora told Tai. I mean, if she said what Faye said, Tai's just hearing second-hand news about something that maybe happened, and the response doesn't go with that.I bet it was something quick, like "omg marten+claire <3" since the comic seems to indicate this conversation, text, and reply happened really fast, so it had to be a short message to type out.
We are talking about a woman who used to beat people for a living and was/possibly very active in the Fetish Community now.
She did this with Tai in a completely spontaneous and risky manner.
"consensual nom-consent"
Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
She doesn't often. Residents of Yorkshire, on the other hand...Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
Jeph is going to make Pintsize the voice of reason entirely to fuck with us.In any case, Pintsize wouldn't be more of an ass about it than he is about literally everything else.
In any case, Pintsize wouldn't be more of an ass about it than he is about literally everything else.
I bet it was something quick, like "omg marten+claire <3" since the comic seems to indicate this conversation, text, and reply happened really fast, so it had to be a short message to type out.
Trans women and men don't look like anything in particular, besides women and men, and fucking hell even keeping the gender binary in place have you seen how many varieties we come in?
It's Pintsize talking about asses that has me worried.
Wasn't it Diderot who said the day we know true freedom is the day that the last king is hanged by the entrails of the last priest?All remnants of monarchy including speech patterns will improve humanity drastically by being purged from it utterly.Which is really, really wierd. Can you imagine dropping "I", "me" and "we", using only "us" in the first person?Sure, the Queen of England speaks that way. Some languages don't have a singular/plural distinction at all.
Fair note, much like any story, time is "Ludicriously Slow" in the QC universe. I think it's been like what, 2 years time wise since the begging?At most! It's been summer vacation since #1978!
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
He'll play a song. Question is: Sir Mix-Alot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlItMpGYQTo) or Nikki Minaj? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs)
I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.
He'll play a song. Question is: Sir Mix-Alot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlItMpGYQTo) or Nikki Minaj? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs)
I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?
I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?Like with TVTropes, there's an art to not clicking bad youtube links.
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?No, it means you've reached the next level.
I could have lived without watching that Nikki Minaj video. Anyone got some brain bleach?
I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.
Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex.Entirely independent of the fact that Claire is trans, she doesn't seem like the type to jump into bed with someone immediately, anyway. She seems more apt to take it slow and be sure that she wants to be with someone before sexy times start.
Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex.Entirely independent of the fact that Claire is trans, she doesn't seem like the type to jump into bed with someone immediately, anyway. She seems more apt to take it slow and be sure that she wants to be with someone before sexy times start.
So then if I have a forgeworld army does that make me like doubly vindicated?(http://oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/Vac%20Wings%20VW483%20SB2U.JPG)
Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex. Marten will probably just say Claire has issues so they're going slow. The ladies, out of a desire to help, will be nosey and possibly guess some aspect of Claire's situation. My feeling is that they would be generally supportive, although I wouldn't be surprised if Faye was tactless at times (because she's Faye). Dora and Tai have probably faced discrimination at times; they would probably sympathise with her.
Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?No, it means you've reached the next level.
Y'know, sometimes it really jars and annoys me when Jeph writes strips that reference the forums instead of keeping things realistic within the QC-verse. This is one of those.
I was looking forward to hearing Tai's reaction to this--I thought it would be something funny and absurd and just the sort of thing that Tai and only Tai would say. Instead, she says something that nobody would say in real life about their friends, something that doesn't sound at all natural in context. It breaks the flow of the story, and one of the things I love so much about QC is the way it flows, the comic (and sometimes dramatic) timing that always works so well.
Meh. I don't usually post to grumble, but I kinda feel like I was just jolted out of a story I was super absorbed in and back into the drab reality of sitting in a chair looking at some pixels on a screen.
It was a funny strip. I can totally see the CoD ladies being basically a gossip circle.Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)
Whilst I don't think Marten will be indiscreet, I suspect that this may lead to Claire possibly being 'outed' to a wider group, just because Faye, Dora and Tai can't understand why Marten and Claire didn't jump right to sex. Marten will probably just say Claire has issues so they're going slow. The ladies, out of a desire to help, will be nosey and possibly guess some aspect of Claire's situation. My feeling is that they would be generally supportive, although I wouldn't be surprised if Faye was tactless at times (because she's Faye). Dora and Tai have probably faced discrimination at times; they would probably sympathise with her.
That said, I've long suspected Tai was a hopeless romantic!
Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)Marten's body language in panel two is perfect
There's more Tai-is-a-romantic where that came from. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2481)Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)Marten's body language in panel two is perfect
But Tai writes slashfics in her spare time. It seems perfectly in character to me.Hmm. That's a good point. Still feels weird to me, but you've at least given me something to help me suspend my disbelief. Thanks!
Fair enough, apologies for overreacting. The word has been thrown at me before, it makes one touchy.
For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.
I'm not sure where you're from, but in British English "mate" is very strongly gendered. Most people would not call a woman "mate" here.
Fair enough, apologies for overreacting. The word has been thrown at me before, it makes one touchy.
Valkygrrl - if you don't want me to use it here, I won't.
Why? Because I'm a Feminist, but not Radical, certainly not Trans Exclusionary. If someone is Gender Critical (I'm more Gender Sceptical) and has been lumped in with those they don't want to be associated with - if they get hurt by the term - then the same rule applies as for all minorities when they object to someone not of that minority using a term they see as hateful.
You don't give excuses -
"But it was a term they invented to describe themselves!"
"But it just means Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist"
- no matter how true.
You listen to them. You treat them with respect. You stop using it. Period.
Valygrrl, you and I disagree on this area, maybe less than it appears as I'm Gender Sceptical, a difference of degree rather than kind, but enough so that I feel we see each other in opposite camps.
Gender Critical Feminism is a minority, a subset of Feminism, just as Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists are a subset of them, and the truly nasty people like CB a further subset of them. You, a Gender Critical Feminist, are in a minority here, and in the world at large. I'm not a member of that minority.
When a member of a minority I don't belong to tells me a term that has (however inaccurately) been applied to them is offensive... then the justifications, the excuses, however true they may be, do not matter. What matters is that if I use that term, I am hurting someone.
I have many grievous faults. I do try *really hard* though not to be a hypocrite. And apart from that, hurting you would be unjust and very wrong, you don't deserve it. Oh, I'll disagree stridently, but intentionally hurt you? That would be hurting myself.
No apologies necessary. I'm sorry you were hurt. It's your call, not mine, as to whether I use this term in future, bearing in mind I'd never use it to refer to someone like you, no matter how far apart we may be. That's just... trying to be a Decent Human Being.
Suspected? #2705 was a bit more definitive about it. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2705)Marten's body language in panel two is perfect
There's more Tai-is-a-romantic where that came from. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2481)
It's bet not to mate on the forum, in other words? :claireface:
It's bet not to mate on the forum, in other words? :claireface:
Why? Have you had an offer?
But neither fact says anything about Dora's genitals, I might add.
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:
They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other. The next strip is just a single panel of Marten and Claire, spooned up in bed together (a bit like Angus and Faye a few strips back) with blissful smiles on their faces. The strip after that is Faye coming into CoD with huge bags under her eyes; she tells a worried Dora that she is into love and its free expression but not when the lovers in question are loud about it for three damn hours!
"Yeah, our Marty has stamina when he's inspired," is Dora's enigmatic reply.
The point is that we never hear about the mechanics and it is never an issue. All we see and all that we need to know is that they've made love and that the experience was fulfilling for them both.
Going back to the ages thing, I'm pretty sure Dora said she was 28 when she went on her date with Jim, and 26 right before she started dating Marten, so assuming not much time has passed since the Jim date, so it was about two years from the beginning of the comic to that, and maybe what, a few months since then?To be precise, in 1954 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1954) Jim states that he's 41 and Dora denies having turned 30. Then in 1958 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1958) Jim says that Sam is 13, and Dora then proceeds to the conclusion that Jim must have had her when he was Dora's current age, i.e. 28. And this was before the trip to space and the summer interns appeared, so at least a few months have gone by since.
But neither fact says anything about Dora's genitals, I might add.
Indeed! My point is that while Marten might talk about his own junk, I doubt he'd say anything about anyone else's.
Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening?1302? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302)
That doesn't count - they were already talking about that area, and they weren't really talking about her genitalia, per se.
Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening?1302? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302)
Pintsize isn't exactly a role model. He may well say something crass, but my money is still on him attempting to be too helpful, because that's more likely to break Marten's brain. Little fucker likes mayhem, not curt dismissal.
That doesn't count - they were already talking about that area, and they weren't really talking about her genitalia, per se.
"I WILL NOT GROW A PENIS" doesn't count? You cray.
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974) Or check the strip by strip description in the wiki (http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_strip_by_strip)Ooh, can someone find me the strip with the Tai-Marten-binder conversation? How could I not remember that happening?1302? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302)
I thought it was in relation to the subject of Breast Binding, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_binding) not Shibari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_bondage) given the context of the hot topic debate right now.
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974)
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974) Or check the strip by strip description in the wiki (http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_strip_by_strip)
I agree, but it's unlikely we'll even see as much as that. Post-coital-snuggles, perhaps; the rest, not so much.
If Jeph has any class at all (spoiler, he has fucking lots of it), the genital-speculators will never have any kind of closure. Taking every other relationship in QC as example, at some point it'll be made clear - to both audience and fellow cast - that they are sleeping together, and that'll be that. Cis people are private enough about their sex-life (unless they are Dora (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1669)), so just consider how much more closed the door is for trans people. That door is bolted.
Pintsize isn't exactly a role model. He may well say something crass, but my money is still on him attempting to be too helpful, because that's more likely to break Marten's brain. Little fucker likes mayhem, not curt dismissal.
Faye was basically okay with being a third wheel when it was Dora but I'm wondering if she might feel that the circumstances have changed. Not only is she now in a fairly committed relationship with Angus (and I can see him proposing marriage in the not-to-distant future as a way of verifying his commitment to her despite career requirements).
I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.
Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.
Jeph is going to make Pintsize the voice of reason entirely to fuck with us.
I don't think it's awkward, I think it does and will represent growth of the characters (and to some extent, the storyteller and his audience). Things that are funny when you're ignorant of the pain they cause cease to be funny when light is let into the darkness of your ignorance.
I think using the fact that various male and female genitalia have been referred to in the past as a reason/excuse/mandate to refer to them now is silly and backward, and as the rule is patiently and consistently applied, people will realize that.
I really want to say May would have the biggest problems, but androids who want to be fighter jets probably really understand body dysmorphia.Moderate quibble here, but Body Dysmorphic Disorder and Gender Dysphoria are two entirely separate phenomena, both in terms of what they are and how they're treated. I point this out mainly because people tend to conflate the two in a way that implies that all trans people need is therapy-although I'm not saying that's what you're doing here. Context!
[..] it's best to strive for terminology that's not offensive to speakers of any English dialect or sub-dialect in use on here.In other words, you think that we should use a dictionary that's even more terse than simple.wikipedia.org?
I WILL NOT GROW A PENIS FOR YOU!! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/1300)
Well, this is awkward.
At maximum, Angus and Faye have been dating 4-6 months in QC time. Certainly not a year yet. I don't think a marriage proposal is in the cards.
If Jeph has any class at all (spoiler, he has fucking lots of it), the genital-speculators will never have any kind of closure.I'd be astonished if he handled the issue any other way. Any more than he'd be revealing about any other character's anatomy, Sam's for example. If you wouldn't ask a question about her body, don't ask it about Claire's. Even if you have a great curiousity about the exact changes that usually happen at puberty, Tanner stages, and how far they are along with her.
I'd be astonished if he handled the issue any other way. Any more than he'd be revealing about any other character's anatomy, Sam's for example. If you wouldn't ask a question about her body, don't ask it about Claire's. Even if you have a great curiousity about the exact changes that usually happen at puberty, Tanner stages, and how far they are along with her.
Moreover, if even mentioning that subject makes you queasy, really uncomfy, and feeling it should be out of bounds for decency's sake, you will understand how some of us feel about the issue with Claire and Marten. The mods for example. Me, too. Sam's only a child for goodness sake. Claire's only a young woman, whose road has been harder than most. Leave them in peace. To do otherwise would be distinctly creepy, and not in a good way.
Now back to this week's megadose of squee, and pancakes. The happy stuff, the things that make life a joy, if taken in moderation. I'm sure Clinton will be a great moderator when he gets a clue, though Clairmom might have a few words to say to him about that... Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.
Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.QC cannot end yet. The final pages (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1193) have been written (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1453) and confirmed (http://jephjacques.com/post/64069511359/qa-time-once-again). It cannot end until hanners, claire and sam are ready. We're safe for now.
Rather than Marten finally finding out what he wants being an end to QC, as some have feared, it will provide all-new opportunities for plot arcs, alarums, and excursions.
QC cannot end yet. The final pages (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1193) have been written (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1453) and confirmed (http://jephjacques.com/post/64069511359/qa-time-once-again). It cannot end until hanners, claire and sam are ready. We're safe for now.
But people seemed to be intimating that *any* discussion of sex involving Claire and Marten will be forever off the table due to the realms of people's sensitivity. I just don't understand this. People bring up sex with some graphic detail fairly frequently in the comic.
This comic is not rated PG. The main characters are all adults, and the humans (except for Hannelore) all seem to have sex lives, even if some are currently unattached. Sex is a normal topic of discussion among adults.
I think using the fact that various male and female genitalia have been referred to in the past as a reason/excuse/mandate to refer to them now is silly and backward, and as the rule is patiently and consistently applied, people will realize that.
I'll be the first to say I don't care one way or another. But people seemed to be intimating that *any* discussion of sex involving Claire and Marten will be forever off the table due to the realms of people's sensitivity. I just don't understand this. People bring up sex with some graphic detail fairly frequently in the comic.
Sex is a normal topic of discussion among adults.
I agree totally, as it happens.
Opting on the side of least harm is a good thing, yeah?
Ya can't tell people not to speak yet complain that people don't understand you because they pretty much have ingrained notions already due to misinformation that was perpetuated in the first place by shutting people up.
I could see Faye concluding with something along the lines of: "He's yours to look after now, Red. He's a great guy and I think you'll do the job but if you don't...? Well, then I'll come back to snap your arms and legs."That sounds like Faye, for sure.
My guess is that he might actually be quite nice to Claire in his unique way - by treating her as a female sex object the way he does all the other ladies.Yeah, he'll probably just want to grab her boobs. After all, that's the part of most ladies that he usually focuses on.
Dora seems to have gotten a new faceIt's her surprised happy face. Haven't seen much of it lately.
I agree totally, as it happens. I just think that where trans person issues are concerned, it's damnably difficult to have those discussions in a way that doesn't offend/hurt people. Sex may be a universal, but if you're not a trans person, you can put everything you know and understand about their lives in a gnat's navel with room for two caraway seeds and an agent's heart. Opting on the side of least harm is a good thing, yeah?
Yeah, he'll probably just want to grab her boobs. After all, that's the part of most ladies that he usually focuses on.
Correction: some aspects of sex are a normal topic of discussion.
If the comic always presents their relationship in a desexualized manner, and nothing explicit is ever said, then really what difference is there between Marten dating someone trans or cis?
When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans? I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner.
974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974)
I think thats the one in relation to the topic at hand right now.
He's already spanked her butt. Hell, Claire is the only woman who's willingly (albeit reluctantly) let Pintsize molest her.
One thing I don't seem to recall is other characters' awareness of Claire being trans. That could be an interesting, if brief, story arc. As far as I can recall, there are only four characters that know: Claire (obvs), Clinton, Mrs. A, and Marten.
Edited to add: They'd need to make sure that, of all of the characters in the QC universe, Pintsize would never find out. Because... he's an ass, and would likely be worse than ANY of the commenters in this forum on these matters! :)
Emily also knows since Claire told her.
Having dated several trans women myself, allow me to say that dating trans women is just like dating pretty much all other women. Filled with unique challenges and adversity because they're all individuals. How it happens in comic is up to Jeph but here in meat space it's just like dating any other pretty lass you fancy.When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans? I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner.
How that happens in the comic is up to Jeph. If you want to know more of how that will happen, you can ask him directly (but don't expect an answer). If you want answers to your first question, start with the threads in Discuss!, and also follow some of the links there.
One thing I don't seem to recall is other characters' awareness of Claire being trans. That could be an interesting, if brief, story arc. As far as I can recall, there are only four characters that know: Claire (obvs), Clinton, Mrs. A, and Marten.
Edited to add: They'd need to make sure that, of all of the characters in the QC universe, Pintsize would never find out. Because... he's an ass, and would likely be worse than ANY of the commenters in this forum on these matters! :)
Emily also knows since Claire told her.
If the comic always presents their relationship in a desexualized manner, and nothing explicit is ever said, then really what difference is there between Marten dating someone trans or cis? Of course, in reality there would be differences (although each person is an individual) but if the reader isn't presented with them, what are they going to learn besides trans people are just like the rest of us? When will we actually be able to be educated on what it's like to date someone who's trans? I mean, Claire could have further monologues about her experience I suppose, but actual dynamic within a relationship should be on display - of course in a tasteful manner.
Tai knew a woman who identified himself as a male (and thus she used the male pronoun just because that was who he was).
My guess about Pintsize is that he determined, via a complexity algorithm, that crude, offensive humour was the only thing that got under Marten's skin enough to drive him to exit his passive 'let someone else take the lead' comfort zone. My guess is that he might actually be quite nice to Claire in his unique way - by treating her as a female sex object the way he does all the other ladies.
[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.
[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.
I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.
These things do take time, and I'm not trying to be condescending here. There's still a need to fight, since trans* rights and recognition are maybe where gay rights were at in the '80s (or '90s if one is being more optimistic). It's a shitty situation, but it does seem to be getting better, not just here with Claire as a great character who I don't see as trans* unless it comes up in comic, but with the character of Sophia in "Orange Is the New Black" (blanking on the actress's name). The more media that "normalises" (yeah, bad term, since trans* people are already normal) trans* people, and the more people in our lives that come out, the fewer problems we'll have as a society. Without places like these fora, I'd know precisely ONE trans guy. Here, thanks to the evolution in communications, I get to converse with many more, and more importantly, just shut up and listen to what they have to say.[edit]
Edited part of the description because I didn't want the post derailed by another interminable debate on pronouns and identity.
I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.
in a written format as all these communications are, it is very difficult to differentiate between hate speech and "what the hell do I call this anyway?"
in a written format as all these communications are, it is very difficult to differentiate between hate speech and "what the hell do I call this anyway?"
When in doubt, it's better to ask a question than make an assumption. In a written format, you have all the time in the world to get it right.
I'm happy BenRG made the edit, but I'm unhappy that he inserted that dismissive remark minimizing the importance of the issue, and I'm unhappy that he persisted in an argument that respectful language is unduly difficult to deploy.
I hope some day you feel free to identify however you like - tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you. I wish you the best of luck in moving toward your comfort zone. I'm sorry transphobia has shaped your experience so greatly, and I understand why you'd hesitate to call out bad behavior in your family space -- but please don't tell me not to call out bad behavior on a public forum. This was a teachable moment and I don't regret reaching for it.
I would venture to suggest that if the individual in question is trans and goes by male pronouns, it is quite likely that he is a trans man, and thus it is not unexpected that his friends would use male-coded terms to address him. In short, this is not actually an argument in favor of 'mate' being a non-gendered or unisex term.
So am I and I call everyone mate, as do all the people I know of all genders. My girlfriend's best friend is trans and she refers to him as her 'best mate' (said friend goes with male pronouns in fairness).
There's a thing called context, that's very important in these types of discussions. Specifically, there's the context in which (as has been exhaustively explained over and over in this and prior WCDT threads and in the thread specifically devoted to the discussion in question), that trans* people's bodies are considered public property, and subjected chronically to all manner of dehumanizing and excessively personal questions and discussion of same which cis people simply do not experience. So, that is why it is, in fact, a different conversation, and the fact that other character's genitals have been discussed/mentioned is not, in fact, germane in any way.
It matters cause people say we can't talk about it, yet here we have examples of it being made. Ya can't put the genie back into the bottle once ya open it.....
It's a shitty situation, but it does seem to be getting better, not just here with Claire as a great character who I don't see as trans* unless it comes up in comic, but with the character of Sophia in "Orange Is the New Black" (blanking on the actress's name).Laverne Cox. Who I hope to see in lots of things in future, I'm a huge fan. She and her twin brother M. Lamar have a very interesting interview here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/laverne-cox-m-lamar-lgbt-black-communities_n_1262990.html), about identity, gender, race, and sexuality.
Best of wishes in your future endeavours and hopes that your situation improves. My husband is from a similar background to yours, and his situation has, although it involved moving several hundred miles and eventually cutting off contact with his family. So, you know, for what it's worth. Anyway, you've all my support.
Listen, I'm just going to put this out there. ...
Snide remarks are not how you teach (and I'm referring specifically to "in written format, you have all the time in the world to get it right" and "I envy your ability to be bored by such topics, rather than existentially threatened by them.").
As you're going on about how you made this a teachable moment, you tell me you hope I can feel free to identify however I like, and then list "tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you" - right after I explicitly said I identify myself as male, albeit within my own head. I didn't mention anything about calling out anyone's behavior, just that I cannot - at this time - identify myself as male openly.
Welcome to the internet, where being right is (much, much, much) more important than being nice.
As you're going on about how you made this a teachable moment, you tell me you hope I can feel free to identify however I like, and then list "tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you" - right after I explicitly said I identify myself as male, albeit within my own head. I didn't mention anything about calling out anyone's behavior, just that I cannot - at this time - identify myself as male openly.
I chose my words incorrectly here. In trying to acknowledge your evolving situation, I used the word "identity" where I ought to have said "presentation". I respect your firm self-identification as a man, and I am sincerely sorry that my response read as dismissive.
Also, as a not native: I hould agree with the Urban dictionary definition of "I ship it (http://pt.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20ship%20it)" and assume Tai knows Claire is trans?
Maybe she discovered in the selection of interns or something, she have some bureaucratic responsibilities in the library.
1 I am using this term having read http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.pdf and decided not to use the word "preferred". Did I chose the right term?Yup! and thank you for taking the time to look it up ^_^
Correction: some aspects of sex are a normal topic of discussion. I'm sure you wouldn't need to think very hard to realise that there are details you'd rather not talk about in the bus.
Geez, this is a comic with characters, not people we can hurt the feelings.
Cochise, it isn't about the feelings of the characters, per se...
Not necessarily - "shipping" isn't limited to homosexual relationships anymore.Thanks. That expression, if I seen before don't cared to research any deep meaning.
People who identify with her may be negatively affected by other people's invasive line of questioning.And because of this I don't spoke any more of the matter. "Claire would be ok, if there was not the fact this conversation disguise some people on the forum."
Your curiosity does not, I'm afraid, trump other people's comfort and safety.
In his old Q&A sessions on his tumblr and also periodically on twitter, Jeph sometimes chooses to, possibly with tongue in cheek, possibly somewhat seriously, respond to such prying questions by describing the character's opinions in the direct third person as if they were real.As a writer I have various characters I know as real people and in some way care a lot about they, so I could totally understand this sort of attitude, even more for character you are working for more than a decade. But my firs reaction was "How smart of him!".
Yup, thanks! I kind of remember now...974? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974)I think thats the one in relation to the topic at hand right now.
If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.I'd rather think if anyone has first-hand experience with trans chicks, it's Sven... And he seems pretty chill about everything. He's spoilt and self-absorbed, but I don't see anything malicious in him. Maybe it's just because he's kind of... a little bit... my type. :oops: (Yeah, lucky me)
If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.
I'd rather think if anyone has first-hand experience with trans chicks, it's Sven... And he seems pretty chill about everything. He's spoilt and self-absorbed, but I don't see anything malicious in him. Maybe it's just because he's kind of... a little bit... my type. :oops: (Yeah, lucky me)
However, whilst I think they make a good pair, I do still wonder whether Claire's ready for a relationship. Looking at these two (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431) strips (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432), Claire showed an emotional response way outside of what would be expected in a similar situation.Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.
[edited for shortness]
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.
By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.I was wondering the same...
Claire being trans (IF that would become known at all, it sure doesn't have to)
And I'm not sure if anyone will be the "ignorant person". In the past few years we had a lot of "you probably will be scared by..." and the response was "this is totally awesome!". Our cast is very open minded. And if I must bet, the "ignorant person" will be ignorant to a third person, not directly to Marten or Claire. As I said, Jeph seems to prefer to show the good examples instead show the bad to confront them, and this reduce the chance of a "ignorant person" make some real damage.
there are just some things you can't talk to your mother about, no matter how gooda person she is.her pancakes taste.
[edited for shortness]
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.
Kind of, but I think I see the problem here as well. Her anxiety attack was brought on by the behaviour of her brother, who should know better. Either he's an assclown - which very well could be, but then why should she talk about very intimate stuff with him then? Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.
Jimbo and Steve, to a lesser extent, but I hope not for the same reason. It could be that Jeph is on a roll and we will find out soon. But he has a lot of other plots rolling, so he can easily back burner Claire's gender. Especially as it's less relevant than pretty much everything else about Claire.
If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.
I don't know if she is the OBVIOUS choice. I feel like that is Pintsize.
But if I was a betting man I would put money on her saying something unintentionally offensive. That is if Jeph even decides to have any characters do that.
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense.
Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent.
For the purpose of suggesting he would be intentionally crass on this subject? I would say no. Apples v. Oranges. Pintsize unintentionally harms himself all the time. Accidentally harming others is a rare thing for him.Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent.
He had unintentionally gay robot sex. Does that count?
Beyond all the other stuff that's been discussed this week is that so far everyone in the QC universe seems to be for this relationship.
I'm just waiting for Claire's brother to react. Someone's going to be a naysayer. Just like in any relationship. We'll just have to see.
That's the deal about major plot shifts like this: there's more unanswered than answered.
Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.
Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?
"Fire head girl" is already taken.
Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?
"Fire head girl" is already taken.
Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.Buh?
By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.Buh?
Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Mar-bear is a likely candidate to do something problematic without any intent, or malice. You don't have to say something transphobic to be offensive, just like one doesn't have to be a bigoted to do something racist.
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.Buh?
The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:
Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906
Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.Buh?
The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:
Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906
Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.
And Celts used to wear woad.
I rather don't think that Claire would be frustrated by Marten's lack of ambition all that much. One of the things she praised him on was his stability. In fact she got a bit upset when he mentioned that he might leave the library... for some pretty clear reasons now of course. So long as he doesn't get in the way of her ambitions, or become a leach if they move in together eventually I don't see this as a problem for her. She might nag him to wear ear protection when playing his music, but I don't think she'll get all upset if he never does anything major with his life.
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:
They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other.
I've already got my head-canon on how the Marten x Claire intimacy issue will be handled:
They come back to Marten's apartment from a date, clearly quite excited and start making out in the middle of the lounge. Marten then carries Claire bridal-style into his bedroom. Jeph brings down the brightness of each panel until the last panel is totally black with just speech bubbles of them whispering sweet nothings to each other.
Won't happen. Our stringy hero wasn't even trusted to help lift a sofa, remember? A whole human being just seems out of the realm of possibility.
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.Buh?
The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:
Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.Buh?
The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:
Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906
There are actually blue people.Long tails, on the other hand... (yes, vestigal tails, but long ones?)
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blue-skinned-people-kentucky-reveal-todays-genetic-lesson/story?id=15759819
(http://abcnews.go.com/Health/blue-skinned-people-kentucky-reveal-todays-genetic-lesson/story?id=15759819)
Yeah, but "tiny" is actually the opposite of true. Blue and red are just...different colours. If I had to think of an "opposite" of red I'd say green, but only because of traffic lights.I'd say cyan, actually. Try doing colour adjustments in Photoshop. The "opposite" pairings are red/cyan, yellow/blue, and green/magenta. I can see how someone might confuse cyan with blue, though.
But for whatever reason, someone who goes limp just seems that much harder to pick up. Like a toddler or cat that doesn't want to be picked up.Well, cats *are* a liquid. Best to stick them into a container for involuntary transport.
Yeah, but "tiny" is actually the opposite of true. Blue and red are just...different colours. If I had to think of an "opposite" of red I'd say green, but only because of traffic lights.
Well, cats *are* a liquid. Best to stick them into a container for involuntary transport.
And Celts used to wear woad.
Only till Mel Gibson did it. Then it became too mainstream and they stopped.
Those Celts, such hipsters.
And Celts used to wear woad.
Only till Mel Gibson did it. Then it became too mainstream and they stopped.
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though. He is the butt-monkey of the strip, after all. I guess that'd make Hanners and Claire the woobies, though, so no harm done to Claire; even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though.
even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.True. And she'll be rescued from the sinking ship because Jeph wouldn't do otherwise... but I don't think it will sink. It may encounter stormy weather and have the wind against it at times, but I sense a quiet determination between the two of them to make it work.
Remember a few threads ago when 15 pages seemed a big deal?
He does tend to like torturing Marten, though. He is the butt-monkey of the strip, after all. I guess that'd make Hanners and Claire the woobies, though, so no harm done to Claire; even if the ship sinks, she'll probably have had a better first relationship than most of us.
The saddest part of that is that it's true. :-(
Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".Ever since I saw that nickname, I've actually been thinking: "Someone should make fanart of her as Little Red Riding Hood". Don't really know why.
Ever since I saw that nickname, I've actually been thinking: "Someone should make fanart of her as Little Red Riding Hood". Don't really know why.
Maybe Jeph has decided itīs about time for Marten to have grown and to be happy, to achieve his newfound goals in ...(Snip)
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).For good reason, too. Problems in this social circle tend to revolve around each other's relationships and how they relate to their own inner demons. To work through it, one might appear to be taking someone's side over another. Probably just a measure instituted in order to remain impartial.
Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?
"Fire head girl" is already taken.
After a few days of thinking, i'm going to have to say i'm not a fan of they way this is shaping up.
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?
WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.
After a few days of thinking, i'm going to have to say i'm not a fan of they way this is shaping up.
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?
WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).
kerky: Dora didn't see Faye's therapist. She told her she didn't want to see anyone in her social circle (something she told Sven) (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1782).
That was after Dora and Marten broke up, wasn't it? It's significant because Dora started seeing a therapist soon afterwards (Faye insisted with the threat of violence). I think that Faye's therapist decided that Faye's social circle was filled with so many messed-up personalities that she couldn't handle three of them.
WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical".Marten never said such a thing. That was Tai (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737) and later even Claire (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2796), but never Marten.
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical".Marten never said such a thing. That was Tai (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2737) and later even Claire (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2796), but never Marten.
I mean it was what, at most 48 hrs ago in the comic timeline that Martin gets a peck on the cheek form Emily, was freaking out, and all "I can't date an intern, that would be unethical". Two consecutive nights of getting hammer later, and all of a sudden, he's going on about "This feels right"?
WTF; What Da Fuq?!?! this is making Martin out to be one of the most inconsistent, flip flopping, characters i've ever seen, and it's coming from out of nowhere.
You know, I had completely forgotten until someone linked it, but Marten never did say it would be unethical for him to date an intern, only for Tai to do so, because Tai (probably) hired them and has the power to fire them, while Marten just trained them for a bit and has no actual power over them (as far as we know).
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)
Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!
SCNR.
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)
Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!
SCNR.
Or found out that was a thing he wanted.
'Marten, this book is two days late. I..I'm going to have to p..punish you'
*Claire turns beet red and runs out of the room in embarrassment*
Or found out that was a thing he wanted.
'Marten, this book is two days late. I..I'm going to have to p..punish you'
*Claire turns beet red and runs out of the room in embarrassment*
And now I have this image in my mind of Claire as a naughty librarian... oh, I think I just found the subject for Jimbo's next book!
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.I agree, sounds plausible since she is a friend of Tai and probably still around nearby. OTOH, a lot more of character develpment had gone into Padme, and she also seems to have vanished from the story. Did she ever answer Marten's email from the space station?
Sorry, naughty librarian role is two webcomics over (http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/).She does have a similar-sounding name, though. Perhaps with the right (or wrong, depending on perspective) influences (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)...
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.
Agreed; maybe she's the sort who gets possessive if someone she dumped moves on?
And now I have this image in my mind of Claire as a naughty librarian... oh, I think I just found the subject for Jimbo's next book!
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.
I would agree with that if only because she has some connection with Tai. As opposed to Padma who shows no sign of returning after her move.
She doesn't have to remember his name; all she needs is sufficient crazy in her head that makes her jealous that he's moved on so quickly.
"It's the principle of it! I don't like being taken for granted!"
Except she's not crazy.
Been meaning to mention: for some reason I think Deliah will come back into the picture sooner than Padme. No reason why to be honest.
Agreed; maybe she's the sort who gets possessive if someone she dumped moves on?
It was always a one-night stand for Delilah, but was it a one-night stand for Marten before she told him it was?
Except she's not crazy.
Well, maybe, maybe not. She has been looking for a boyfriend for a long while, after all. Ever put something back on the shelf, regretted it and come back only to find it has sold out?
It was always a one-night stand for Delilah, but was it a one-night stand for Marten before she told him it was?
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)
Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!
SCNR.
Problem with Delilah showing up is there wouldn't be much point. She wasn't interested in anything more with Marten and Marten's figured out what he wants anyway.Ah, how could a girl who is anti-mainstream enough not to shave her armpits possibly want to make anyone uncomfortable? I also remember her being quite cool about Martenīs proposal for makeouts, so my bet is NO.
I..guess she could be there to make Claire uncomfortable?
Hah! There it is. The ultimate explanation. In panel 2 in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=273)
Marten has finally gotten over a traumatic experience!
SCNR.
I thought you were maybe linking to this this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457) at first. Just found it in the archives this weekend.
Honestly, there's no trans-dar, it ain't gonna happen.
I thought you were maybe linking to this this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457) at first. Just found it in the archives this weekend.
Hmmmm, I have not gotten this far with my binge-re-re-re-re-re-read yet. 8-) Though, Claire is not actually a dude. Just to avoid any misunderstandings and hurting anyone.
Ah, how could a girl who is anti-mainstream enough not to shave her armpits possibly want to make anyone uncomfortable?That's one of the things I found odd in the US. It's not normal practice here in Australia, yet not to do it is apparently seen as weird in the USA.
Passing culture and passing privilege may be contemptible manifestations of an amoral, judgemental, cisnormative, objectifying patriarchal cultural apparatus, but that doesn't make it any less relevant to my life when a stranger on the bus is staring at me with death in his eyes telling me "you're a man, right?"I am not in any way discounting your personal experience. I know it happens, and it's terrifying.
But is it not true that people can, and do, pass?And some standard factory model women don't. But when they get the glares, they have the self-confidence to do the "withering stare" back. Most of them, anyway. It's not as dangerous for them, though there have been unfortunate situations that mean it's not entirely safe for them either. You don't have to be trans to suffer the threat of transphobia, though it helps.
But is it not true that people can, and do, pass?
I do have a bit of an issue with the idea that Tai or anyone else could "figure out" that Claire is trans.
It'd make a great Sticom/Drama, but what would you call it?
And who'd pick it up?
Family Ties, BondsIt'd make a great Sticom/Drama, but what would you call it?Showtime would pick it up, but the name would be the sticking point.
And who'd pick it up?
Questionable Conquest?
Rule 34. 4chan would sue the pants off those ######.
Rule 34. 4chan would sue the pants off those ######.
Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
Don't judge Stross by that book; his other stuff's a lot better.Rule 34. 4chan would sue the pants off those ######.
Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
I'm 5'8" and wear my hair short and pass 99% of the time. Claire is 5'3" and has overtly feminine hair and probably passes 99.9% of the time. But you sure don't forget that 1% or that 0.1% when it happens.Well I used to live in a big city here in Spain. One nice thing about this city: People donīt give a rat's a** about meeting celebrities from sports and media on the streets, in the cafe where they're having breakfast or in the queue at the supermarket. The city has a bustling GLBT scene, the second liveliest CSD in Spain and a popular gay holiday spot is nearby, so expect to meet more queer (gender- or otherwise) people than in Smalltown, Elsewhere. And you know what I always thought really nice? They give as much as they do about celebrities. I have, of course, spotted transwomen, be at the beginning of the transition, or for whatever other reason not passing too well on the underground, the bus, on the train or all around the city. And guess what? I have hardly seen a giggle, staring or strange reactions. Of course, it does happen, and once is possibly once too many, but I do think 99% of the people know how to behave and do act in a natural, unoffensive way. Now, that makes it "only" 1% left to worry about (and sooner or later they will be extinct or learn and know better). Of course in smaller, less cosmopolitan cities, the situation will be different.
My point is that a statement like "there's no trans-dar" is utterly false. People point their trans-dar at me all the time, because figuring out "what I am" is a fun game to them. People do this to everyone, all the time, because categorical perception is baked into our genes, and gender policing is baked in to our culture. You can wish the world were better, but saying won't make it so.
Don't judge Stross by that book; his other stuff's a lot better.Rule 34. 4chan would sue the pants off those ######.
Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
Rule 34. 4chan would sue the pants off those ######.
Charles Stross wrote a book titled rule 34. I was bad don't read it. I'm not even kidding, it was written in the second person, who does that?
Gotta say I don't recall that scene from when I read it. I'm mostly a fan of his series. The Merchant Princes series is about a New York journalist who discovers that she's related to a clan of people who have the ability to jump from our dimension to another one, and have used it to gain power and wealth. The Laundry Files follows computer geek, applied necromancer and secret agent Bob Howard in his adventures through the horrors of departmental bureaucracy and cthonian monstrosities from beyond time and space.
Was thinking of checking out Neptune's Children but after reading about a computer virus causing a 3d printer to spit out a bunch of dildos...
Gotta say I don't recall that scene from when I read it. I'm mostly a fan of his series. The Merchant Princes series is about a New York journalist who discovers that she's related to a clan of people who have the ability to jump from our dimension to another one, and have used it to gain power and wealth. The Laundry Files follows computer geek, applied necromancer and secret agent Bob Howard in his adventures through the horrors of departmental bureaucracy and cthonian monstrosities from beyond time and space.
Was thinking of checking out Neptune's Children but after reading about a computer virus causing a 3d printer to spit out a bunch of dildos...