Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: jwhouk on 29 Nov 2014, 06:31

Title: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 29 Nov 2014, 06:31
December is upon us!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 29 Nov 2014, 07:02
Whether she chose the role, was employed to carry it out or was simply backed into it by circumstance, I've got the feeling that Alice is the woman responsible for the stability, upkeep and protection region in which she lives. She's a Caretaker, in other words.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: KOK on 29 Nov 2014, 07:58
Some people are born to the role, some ...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Pilchard123 on 29 Nov 2014, 08:26
Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Dec 2014, 18:23
Alice responded fastest.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 01 Dec 2014, 18:27
Did someone order up a fresh plate of plot?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 01 Dec 2014, 18:32
Holy CRAP!!!!!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Dec 2014, 18:43
Someone set us up the bomb!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 01 Dec 2014, 18:53
My first thought was that it was Ardent's spaceship exploding. But then I remembered that it was strongly implied that Ardent arrived by some means other than spaceship. So I'm out of guesses.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: K1dmor on 01 Dec 2014, 18:55
 (http://i.imgur.com/e589TFd.png)

 Suddenly, a crossover.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 01 Dec 2014, 22:07
Someone set up us the bomb!
Why do people always get this backwards?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 01 Dec 2014, 22:07
At least this isn't being directed by Michael Bey


One hopes.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 01 Dec 2014, 23:00
Okay, shit just got real! This looks like a job for...

Super-Alice!!!

Or maybe to tell old Mac for the fifteenth time how to safely work a backyard still... After all this time and demolished work sheds, it isn't even funny anymore!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Pilchard123 on 02 Dec 2014, 00:21
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Dec 2014, 17:30
Mooooooooo
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: SubaruStephen on 02 Dec 2014, 17:48
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110529211540/zerowing/images/2/2d/Base2.png)
(http://cdn.hark.com/images/000/001/109/1109/original.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Dec 2014, 18:09
WHAT YOU SAY!!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: cesium133 on 02 Dec 2014, 18:12
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Dec 2014, 18:15
At least this isn't being directed by Michael Bey


One hopes.

If Michael Bay was directing, there would have been a lot more explosions by now. At least five, starting with the wind generator - it would have exploded a split second after Alice did a backflip off of it. Also none of the jokes would be funny.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Dec 2014, 18:26
Hey, it could be Pain and Gain Michael Bay.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: larn on 03 Dec 2014, 09:56
Okay, shit just got real! This looks like a job for...

Super-Alice!!!


But where will she find a phone booth?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Dec 2014, 10:32
There's one on top of the wind generator.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 03 Dec 2014, 13:00
Or she has a blue one hidden in her barn.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 03 Dec 2014, 15:27
No, I don't buy Alice as Time Lord.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: osaka on 03 Dec 2014, 16:57
Besides, isn't the average TARDIS supposed to mimic the environment, with the Doctor's being broke and stuck on "UK Police box"? The barn itself could be the TARDIS in the case of Alice being a Time Lord.

(Forgive me if I'm wrong. I like Doctor Who but I really really really REALLY never follow any series for any period of time)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 03 Dec 2014, 22:24
(http://i.imgur.com/e589TFd.png)

 Suddenly, a crossover.

Haha! I'd just figured Ardent left the iron on (in his magical invisible spaceship?), but this is way cooler!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 04 Dec 2014, 21:41
New comic up, and SuperAlice indeed.

One thing I like is that Jeph draws Alice with just a hint of tank top under her overalls in some scenes.  Nice attention to detail.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 04 Dec 2014, 22:43
She has to get to Voltron. 



:D  ;)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 04 Dec 2014, 23:39
I. Freakin'. Called. It!!!


She even looks like Kara! :-D
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: TinPenguin on 05 Dec 2014, 02:30
Alice Grove.

Codename for Action Girl.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Dec 2014, 03:10
"Alice! Ah-hah
She'll save every one of us!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 05 Dec 2014, 03:59
Nah nah.. See, we've got it all wrong. The town is just breaking out into song.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 05 Dec 2014, 11:06
Woman of Steel

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Dec 2014, 19:58
Nah nah.. See, we've got it all wrong. The town is just breaking out into song.

This will never not make me happy :)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: KOK on 06 Dec 2014, 02:15
It is what she does.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MrNumbers on 07 Dec 2014, 22:13
First thought: Oh cool, Alice is about to kick names and take arse.

Second thought: Oh. Oh wow. That last panel just looks odd. Jeph's artstyle lends itself to static talking and slice of life. It appears he stretches himself a bit when he attempts motion or action. That's just... hrrm.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Saabstory88 on 08 Dec 2014, 12:19
Based on the past couple weeks, my take:

1. There was a global catastrophe which caused a large number of people to leave Earth. It may have wiped out a lot of technology.
2. This event happened long ago, so few people remember
3. Alice was either from (hibernation, life extension, etc...), or the descendent of that society which existed before the event.
4. She was likely genetically modified, which is why she was able to survive the fall.
5. The technology used to modify her was a precursor to the technology used to modify Ardent.
6. She believes the colony ship is too far away, moving too fast for anyone to return to Earth.
7. She is helping the survivors by attempting to recondition their technology.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 08 Dec 2014, 12:34
To quote Jeph on Twitter today (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/541966360847601664):

Quote
Gonna be drawing a lot of explosions today, I think

So... I'm thinking that tomorrow, we're going to enjoy an action-based strip! Alice is clearly going to be rushing to the rescue. I wonder if she'll just be dodging explosions or causing a few of her own?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 08 Dec 2014, 18:21
Well, if it ain't old Ma Vicissitude.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: SubaruStephen on 08 Dec 2014, 18:35
One of Ardent's "conquests"? Pissed girlfriend? Family member? Owner? (He is fuzzy and exhibits a tendency to want to hump, for all we know he might be her runaway pet)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 08 Dec 2014, 18:37
Lady Explosion Jesus!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MooskiNet on 08 Dec 2014, 18:39
And the first shaded Alice Grove comic as well.  Very nice.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: mustang6172 on 08 Dec 2014, 20:37
Red sky in a cartoon is the universal symbol of

(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140830223144/fallout/images/f/f1/Shit_just_got_real.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 08 Dec 2014, 21:40
Mommy's here!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 08 Dec 2014, 23:42
One of Ardent's "conquests"? Pissed girlfriend? Family member? Owner?

Yeah, basically what I thought. Specifically that she's the guardian of a previous hook-up who needs to get Ardent to the church on time! The sci-fi robes give a lot of weight to Alice Grove being set in a future and/or off-planet location. I wonder if this woman is Alice's opposite number from another bubble?

Is it me or has Alice's behaviour over the past two strips suggested that this isn't entirely unprecedented?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 09 Dec 2014, 03:19
[intercom]Would an "Ardent Vicissitude" please report to the floating lady throwing explosions around?[/intercom]

There goes the equilibrium.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Honkytonk on 09 Dec 2014, 03:23
Lady Explosion Jesus!

That would certainly make Christianity a bit more exciting.

"And lo, did Jesus blow up the Romans who came to take her away, and then blew up Judas too..."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Dec 2014, 05:54
Our Lady of Heavy Artillery seems to think it's perfectly acceptable to firebomb a defenseless community over something that isn't even their fault. And Ardent was complaining about the locals being uncivilized?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 09 Dec 2014, 06:12
Our Lady of Heavy Artillery seems to think it's perfectly acceptable to firebomb a defenseless community over something that isn't even their fault. And Ardent was complaining about the locals being uncivilized?

If I'm right about Alice being the location's protector and this new woman possibly being the same for another location, this may have been a coldly selected strategy for finding Alice as quickly as possible. For if there is anywhere that errant imp will likely be in this place, it will be with its Caretaker.

The little ones are expendable, of course. In time, they will breed away any losses and rebuild what is destroyed. An offence against a Caretaker is of far greater importance.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: KOK on 09 Dec 2014, 08:49
Lady Explosion Jesus!

That would certainly make Christianity a bit more exciting.

"And lo, did Jesus blow up the Romans who came to take her away, and then blew up Judas too..."

Then lobbest thou the Holy Handgranate in the direction of thine enemies who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: NilsO on 09 Dec 2014, 10:44
Lady Explosion Jesus is angry for something, and I would guess "he" is Ardent. But why?
Her technique is brutal, but perhaps effective. She is expecting the natives to quickly hand him over. We do not yet know if it is real explosions and fire, or just a virtual fireworks display designed to scare the natives.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Eternal_Newbie on 09 Dec 2014, 11:33
Whether Our Lady of Heavy Artillery is an ex squeeze or guardian, I suspect she's in for a nasty shock. Alice doesn't appear to be the sort to take people harming her charges lightly. Or maybe they're old friends and will have a chat over a cup of tea.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 09 Dec 2014, 15:05
"Excuse me ma'am, could I see your explosives license and registration please?"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Dec 2014, 15:44
What Kind of World Does Alice Live In?

Pratchett-like (She's a WITCH!)    5 (18.5%)
It's a simulation.    1 (3.7%)
She's a Caretaker.    6 (22.2%)
The Culture from Iain Banks.    1 (3.7%)
Something Stephen King-like.    1 (3.7%)
It's all in Pintsize's warped imagination.    2 (7.4%)
No, it's actually Winslow's attempt at fan-fic for "The Lottery".    2 (7.4%)
Something else.    9 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 09 Dec 2014, 23:37
I wish that I could have voted for more than one option. You see, I'd love it if, as well as being a sister Caretaker, Ms Boom were someone Alice met at the Academy.

"Val, no-one bought how you did 'vengeful goddess' in the Cover Story 101 class and it isn't working for you now."

"... Whoa, buzz-kill, Ali..."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 11 Dec 2014, 11:36
Okay, on Twitter (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/543062841247682560) Jeph says that he's drawing more explosions (likely for for Friday 12/12's strip). Either a fight scene or Explosion Lady is going to be shooting at Alice for a while.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 11 Dec 2014, 13:10
Hopefully it's Alice Strikes Back!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 11 Dec 2014, 14:00
With Star Wars music.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Dec 2014, 21:27
Something tells me that Explosion Lady has made an unwise move.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 11 Dec 2014, 23:30
Ah, I see.  Not old Ma Vicissitude at all, it's just Big Sis.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 11 Dec 2014, 23:36
Well, we can certainly tick the 'Alice is invulnerable' box now! Yes, Ardent is a rat but only Alice gets to cook pests in this town! Now, she gets the pleasure of working off the day's stresses on this new visitor.

ALICE: "Oh good! Someone on whom I can really let loose. Hold still, kid... This may sting for a second or two!"

I still say Ardent got someone pregnant and Ms Explosion wants either revenge  or a date for the marriage.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: TinPenguin on 12 Dec 2014, 06:04
the explosion looks like a butt.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Dec 2014, 06:27
So "Alice Strikes Back" is our next episode. Fair enough.

I imagine that Alice's retribution will be a bit more targeted than LEJ's indiscriminate bombardment. Say, a plasma fireball in a precise 1 meter radius of LEJ's center of mass. That ought to get her attention.

the explosion looks like a butt.

Well of course it does. This is Jeph's comic, after all.  :-D
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 12 Dec 2014, 11:43
Just so long as it isn't an Omega Murder Blast, things will work out.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Dec 2014, 19:55
Omega Murder Butt :roll:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Loki on 13 Dec 2014, 01:48
Just so long as it isn't an Omega Murder Blast, things will work out.
What are you referencing?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 13 Dec 2014, 12:21
Just so long as it isn't an Omega Murder Blast, things will work out.
What are you referencing?

http://flakypastry.runningwithpencils.com/comic.php?strip_id=46
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MrNumbers on 13 Dec 2014, 14:47
Alice: Immune To Explosions

Man, that must have been one painful shot from her doctor. What kind of syringe would you use?

Regardless, I"m looking forward to Alice giving a World of Cardboard speech here.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Dec 2014, 18:49
Alice's overalls are invulnerable too?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Dec 2014, 19:05
Alice's overalls are invulnerable too?

She must know someone over at Marvel Comics.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Dec 2014, 19:29
Or DC. It's canon that Superman's invulnerability extends to whatever he's wearing. Or at least it was canon a few years ago; it may not be any more.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 14 Dec 2014, 06:13
It depends on the writing and the needs of the story on whether or not the character wore their comicoduim suit that day....
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ankhtahr on 14 Dec 2014, 11:12
I think that maybe the explosions are just an illusion to scare the simple people of this community, and Lady Explosion Jesus didn't expect Alice to see through that ruse.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 14 Dec 2014, 15:21
Alice's overalls are invulnerable too?
They are not actually clothes, just part of her epidermis.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Dec 2014, 16:44
So you're saying she runs around naked? Ardent suddenly finds her a lot more interesting!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: mikmaxs on 15 Dec 2014, 00:40
So we get shading now? Is this new to stay, or just for action scenes?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: FunkyTuba on 15 Dec 2014, 17:05
on Shadows:
At first I was going to opine that maybe there was no sun on Aliceworld and that were was merely a diffuse light source of some kind... but looking back the windmill does throw shadows, peoples' eyes do have slight shadows, and that kid asked Alice if she could turn off the sun... I guess it's just midday and shadows are small? Then L.E.J. came and threw sideways shadows so we see them more.

on L.E.J.:
The Destroy First mentality makes me think babysitter, big sister, or warden more than Mother... but hard to say at this point.

On Alice:
really jonesing for an update so I can see in what way Alice can kick L.E.J.'s ass:

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 15 Dec 2014, 17:35
Depends on what Shadows you want

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Babylon_5_-_Shadows.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: mikmaxs on 15 Dec 2014, 17:47
Is Alice hovering? 'Cause last we saw the other person was hovering, but that was two comics ago. Then Alice had to jump to get within punching range. Now, she's had enough time to say a couple sentences, so I *assume* she's hovering, but I honestly don't know for sure since the framing and art doesn't give me much of a clue as to what's going on. Her hand is pushing through the force field, I guess?
(Also, what's going on with her right arm? In panel 3, it's held back as though she's chambering it for a punch, but in the next panel her shoulder looks more forward, like her left arm, as though she's reaching forward with both arms.)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 15 Dec 2014, 18:11
"Save you"?  This is an execution, then?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Dec 2014, 18:24
Oh, she's totally hovering. Too bad her hair's already blonde with some spike in it, or we'd see her go super saiyan ::)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 15 Dec 2014, 22:07
OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!


Well, someone had to say it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 15 Dec 2014, 23:35
Okay, so nanotechnology is either common or Alice has seen this gimmick before. We can also add flight and super-strength to the superpower list along with invulnerability. I wonder if Alice's powers are from technology too? Is she an android or cyborg?

"Save you"?  This is an execution, then?

I think that it is "... save you from the ass-kicking that you deserve!"

OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!


Well, someone had to say it.

At what point is a meme so over-used that even the people using it roll their eyes when doing so?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Loki on 16 Dec 2014, 03:45
It has to be usef a certain number of times.

(I'll leave the exact lower bound on that number to your imagination).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Wildroses on 16 Dec 2014, 04:38
I'm adding two items to the list of things I know about Alice.

1) She's willing to give people a chance.
2) God help you if you don't take the one chance she was willing to offer.

I'm inclined to think this could be an execution as well. Protectors tend not to take it well when their charges are exposed to explosions.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 16 Dec 2014, 05:04
I'm inclined to think this could be an execution as well. Protectors tend not to take it well when their charges are exposed to explosions.

I'm not yet convinced that this is Alice's style. I think it is more likely that she'll beat Explosion Lady unconscious and drag her, hog-tied, back to where Jack and Ardent are waiting. She'll then tell Explosion lady: "Here is your rat. I expect you two to settle whatever the hell this is sensibly or I'll put both of you in body casts."

A lot depends on who Explosion Lady is, I suppose. If she's another Protector/Caretaker, Alice will not want to kill her unless she has no other choice. If she's just a random nanotech-empowered Ordinary Person, then I doubt she'll hold back against a threat to her charges.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Pilchard123 on 16 Dec 2014, 09:43
I discovered what may be a copy of the 'Alice in Sunderland' comic that prevented Jeph from using the name. I'll get it from the library when I'm next in town and report back.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: mikmaxs on 16 Dec 2014, 13:47
Is it bad that I want Alice Grove to become the daily serial and for QC to be put on the back burner? Other than a few art style issues that I feel like Jeph will work out quickly as he draws more action scenes, all of the issues I have with AG come from the pacing, and most of the pacing issues would be fixed if there weren't a few days between every update. (Basically, it needs room to breathe, but the action is already crawling along due to the time between posts. Adding three comics a week would add some room for pacing AND increase plot speed.)
I love QC, but the plot has never really been its strong suit. I feel like Alice Grove would gain a lot more than QC would lose. Just my 2C.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Thrudd on 18 Dec 2014, 11:49
... most of the pacing issues would be fixed if there weren't a few days between every update. (Basically, it needs room to breathe, but the action is already crawling along due to the time between posts. Adding three comics a week would add some room for pacing AND increase plot speed.)......
My friend, you know little of what you speak when it comes to pacing and how many pages come out per week. Try once a week and spend something like two dozen pages or more on just one  fight (http://grrlpowercomic.com/) though it is something wondrous to behold.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Gladstone on 18 Dec 2014, 18:49
Alice.  Alice.  ALICE.

Stop, I think you won this round.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 18 Dec 2014, 18:51
Beatdown commenced.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 18 Dec 2014, 19:04
Nice to see somebody truly enjoying their work.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Dec 2014, 19:06
She's got that look: "I haven't been able to do this in AGES."  :evil:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Yhelta on 18 Dec 2014, 19:21
Alice seems to be going a little overboard here....Lady Explosion Jesus seems to have had the grey forearm rings beaten off of her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 18 Dec 2014, 19:41
oh dear. That's not a good look.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 18 Dec 2014, 19:44
She might actually be a minor god.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 18 Dec 2014, 23:31
oh dear. That's not a good look.

No, she's enjoying this a bit too much to legal... or safe. I'm wondering if this is a dark side with which Alice struggles? Or if it's a dark side with which she doesn't struggle at all? Whether she revels in the occasions when she can beat someone to death?

The next comic should be very revealing about her nature, role, personality and alignment.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Pilchard123 on 19 Dec 2014, 00:38
Beatdown commenced.

B > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: osaka on 19 Dec 2014, 04:10
That's the Lilith Cashlin* punch right there. Surprised that Lady Explosion Jesus hasn't, well, exploded herself.

This will not end well for LEJ.

*Lilith from Borderlands. Apparently she has a full name.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 19 Dec 2014, 04:13
Are we all forgetting that LEJ's first action was the indiscriminate bombardment of an innocent and defenseless civilian population? That puts it firmly in the category "act of war", or even all the way into "war crime". And given LEJ's technological capabilities I really can't blame Alice for wanting to make sure that she is thoroughly incapacitated before taking her prisoner.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 19 Dec 2014, 06:00
I don't think anyone is questioning that. LEJ is an apparent danger to others, just not to Alice. Taking her out quickly is fair game. It's that look of unbridled evil glee on Alice's face as she straddles LEJ and prepares to unleash a serious beating. That's the face of someone who is either about to lose control and nearly kill somebody... Or the face of someone who has way to much power and control and has to resist killing everybody about to cut loose. The question is.. will she or someone stop her before she kills or permanently injures LEJ? And will she feel bad about it afterwards.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 19 Dec 2014, 07:38
I've been expecting Ardent to stop her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 19 Dec 2014, 07:58
I rather expect that myself. I don't think any of the locals could or would even try to stop her. They were to busy running away or being in awe of her. Maybe Jack.... But Ardent trying to put a stop to it seems the most likely. Or we'll come back next week and find Alice standing over the bloody, pummeled LEJ and going 'ooops.. over did it a bit'.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 19 Dec 2014, 08:12
I rather expect that myself. I don't think any of the locals could or would even try to stop her. They were to busy running away or being in awe of her. Maybe Jack.... But Ardent trying to put a stop to it seems the most likely. Or we'll come back next week and find Alice standing over the bloody, pummeled LEJ and going 'ooops.. over did it a bit'.

My current favourite idea is that Alice hits Ms Explosion a few more times and then suddenly stops, her expression turns to one of horror and she says something like: "No, I'm not that person anymore..." Then she slowly stands up and growls at her opponent: "If you're smart, you'll stay down."

It's just a vague idea forming in my head at this point - That maybe looking after the locals and their territory is Alice's community service. She's a former violent criminal; the reason why she's so embarrassed about the adulation she gets is because she doesn't consider herself a good person worthy of praise, rather she's just a girl from the wrong side of the tracks, desperately trying to change herself for the better. It's hard when, as we see here, she gets an excuse to tap into her dark side.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 19 Dec 2014, 09:57
LEJ is going to have that face seared into her nightmares if she survives. Just how much power does Alice have?!? (Too much. Far too much.)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 19 Dec 2014, 10:15
eh, We really haven't seen any expressions of power. She can fall a fair distance without being injured through some means. And she is immune to LEJ's nanotech tricks. Maybe she has the ability to hover, or maybe she just jumped up to smack down LEJ. But so far the only 'power' she's shown is being fairly tough and able to neutralize the nanotech shield. Pummelling someone who is a foot shorter than you and maybe 2/3 your weight doesn't require a lot of power... Especially when you hit them with a couple of sucker punches that knock the fight out of them right away.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: FunkyTuba on 19 Dec 2014, 10:48
The pummeling Alice is currently delivering looks pretty conventional. The look on her face at the end is revealing...something... not quite sure what yet.

Watching this sequence, it appears that Alice is simply immune to any harm that comes her way. The fall didn't hurt her (and I believe her words that she fell, not flew), her fist got through LEJ's nanotech. (LEJ herself looks more like the wizard of oz + nanotech at this point than any kind of supernatural being).

The fact that she's been characterized as a witch is interesting... I mean, what if the Salem trials actually had found a witch who was immune to anything the villagers would throw at her--that is--after stoning, pressing, burning, etc, what if she was annoyed but undamaged? Eventually they'd have to say "oops, our bad..." and deferentially ask her to use her powers for good. That's what this feels like to me.

Edit: just realized I basically plagiarized Neko_all's post... hopefully you'll take it as great minds thinking alike?  :angel:

Edit2: I also think the most likely scenario is that LEJ is someone that Ardent cares about and he'll step in here in a panel or two.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 19 Dec 2014, 11:45
In any event, it's unlikely that Alice is going to execute LEJ right now simply because it would be a really poor scenario plot-wise. A previously unknown character shows up, starts bombing the place, and is immediately offed by Alice before we learn anything about her personality or motivations (or name, even) - what would be the point of that? No, there will be an interrogation where LEJ reveals why she was after Ardent, and what Alice does next will depend on LEJ's answers.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Dec 2014, 20:52
The pummeling Alice is currently delivering looks pretty conventional.
That kind of makes her having some abilities more likely. For starters, LEJ has a bunch of advanced defense tech, and Alice is able to easily break through it with pure fucking strength. That plus invulnerability and possibly flight (or at least sustained hovering) equals something.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Loki on 19 Dec 2014, 23:38


The fact that she's been characterized as a witch is interesting... I mean, what if the Salem trials actually had found a witch who was immune to anything the villagers would throw at her--that is--after stoning, pressing, burning, etc, what if she was annoyed but undamaged? Eventually they'd have to say "oops, our bad..." and deferentially ask her to use her powers for good. That's what this feels like to me.

There is a character in Gunnerkrigg Court who is a bit like that.
Warning, obviously it's a spoiler.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: hedgie on 20 Dec 2014, 03:46
At least she wasn't like Agnes Nutter, loading her knickers with gunpowder and nails, when at the stake and calling the whole town to see.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 20 Dec 2014, 06:56
The pummeling Alice is currently delivering looks pretty conventional.
That kind of makes her having some abilities more likely. For starters, LEJ has a bunch of advanced defense tech, and Alice is able to easily break through it with pure fucking strength. That plus invulnerability and possibly flight (or at least sustained hovering) equals something.

I don't think she broke the shield with strength. She punched the shield and stopped. Then there were sparks around her fist and the shield shattered. I think she used some nanotech of her own or perhaps a locallized EMP effect to neutralize LEJ's shield then commenced with a beat down. So far the only thing I think I can say she has is being extremely tough and being familiar with advanced tech... I suspect Alice might be a cyborg or android.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: KOK on 20 Dec 2014, 07:45
eh, We really haven't seen any expressions of power. She can fall a fair distance without being injured through some means. And she is immune to LEJ's nanotech tricks. Maybe she has the ability to hover, or maybe she just jumped up to smack down LEJ. But so far the only 'power' she's shown is being fairly tough and able to neutralize the nanotech shield. Pummelling someone who is a foot shorter than you and maybe 2/3 your weight doesn't require a lot of power... Especially when you hit them with a couple of sucker punches that knock the fight out of them right away.

And the power to make a con man return his loot. And the power to heal an injured or sick arm. And the power to make a man stop drinking. Ending the strife between neighbours may not have taken anything unusual other than er immense prestige.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Dec 2014, 07:53
I don't think she broke the shield with strength. She punched the shield and stopped. Then there were sparks around her fist and the shield shattered.
Different interpretation, we won't know unless it tells us, but I think she just hit it so hard and so many times that it finally broke in panel one of the most recent comic.

I think she might have tech-disrupting powers that helped her shatter it, but I don't think she is herself tech.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ankhtahr on 20 Dec 2014, 10:25


I suspect Alice might be a cyborg or android.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 20 Dec 2014, 14:43
Alice is something super human. Whether that comes from accessories or something that is a part of her is up for grabs, still.

What she just did, she shouldn't be able to do. Her confidence is whatever it is is pretty damned high (are you going save us? Yes.)

She fell off the windmill. She shouldn't have survived that. There's obviously rumor that she can fly, as Jack assumes she did. So far we've no reason to believe she lied about falling. Of course, being blown up, and coming out without even a burn on her overalls suggests she's superhumanly tough, but the windmill incident serves the story telling purpose of informing us that Alice is something other than what she appears.

As noted, the beating she just dished out would suggest a lot of things, several mutually exclusive--assuming extreme interpretation. I don't think there's enough evidence to say what she's doing one way or another. It could be a field effect of some kind (thus, no burns to her clothing). It could be that everything about her is from Krypton (Bizarrely invulnerable clothing). She might be flying (hovering out of ground effect is just a subset if flight). Maybe she just punches with ultra-human speed (though, I think that kind of full body rotation is a bit outside of humanly possible during any hang time she could get). If she isn't flying, then (assuming Alice is taller than average, based on the other humans she's met) she opened with 5+ foot vertical leap, so that implies at least ultrahuman, if not superhuman, strength.

The physics suggests flight and an energy field (Equal and opposite reaction, each punch during her leap would be pushing her back with same force it delivered, minus drag). But this is a comic, so there's no saying the physics apply.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Loki on 20 Dec 2014, 15:12
I still maintain most of her prestige comes from headology. What she is physically, I don't know.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Pilchard123 on 20 Dec 2014, 15:36
*ahem* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 20 Dec 2014, 18:05
*ahem* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)

"But this is a comic, so there's no saying the physics apply."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Loki on 20 Dec 2014, 18:09
Calling it now, Alice is Momo in Battle Mode (someone link the squirrel fight please)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Zebediah on 20 Dec 2014, 18:47
Momo vs. Squirrel (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1485)

(added a bracket! - Method)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MrNumbers on 21 Dec 2014, 21:03
My apologies: Last message I posted was only the quote, because my internet cut out as I was submitting it and I haven't had it back for three days, so it's just been in half-baked limbo. Eugh.

My current favourite idea is that Alice hits Ms Explosion a few more times and then suddenly stops, her expression turns to one of horror and she says something like: "No, I'm not that person anymore..." Then she slowly stands up and growls at her opponent: "If you're smart, you'll stay down."

It's just a vague idea forming in my head at this point - That maybe looking after the locals and their territory is Alice's community service. She's a former violent criminal; the reason why she's so embarrassed about the adulation she gets is because she doesn't consider herself a good person worthy of praise, rather she's just a girl from the wrong side of the tracks, desperately trying to change herself for the better. It's hard when, as we see here, she gets an excuse to tap into her dark side.

I literally had the same idea as soon as you got past that first paragraph. I was about to echo the same thought, except I kept reading and realized you'd already stated it exceedingly eloquently. So, instead, I'm going to build on it with something I said earlier.

If what we're supposing is true, I want this to all end with the best form of World of Cardboard speech, the one I alluded to wanting earlier. The biggest point of the WoC speech is that, when it's originally delivered by Superman, it's that they hold back not because they're weak but because they're too strong. Too scary. In Superman's case, it's because of his own morality. In Alice's case, they could be holding back around the citizens because they're being held back by a higher power. Alice won't hold back with Lady Jesus Explosion because nobody is around to stop her, and Alice doesn't want to stop. If she stops anyway, when the reason holding back has only ever been external, then we've got a character who is always on the literal knife's edge, the precipice, of snapping and going too far because they're too tired of holding themselves back and, anyway, they don't want to.

One of the greatest Batman lines came after -- I'm quoting DC comic books here, again, aren't I? Damn it, I need to stop doing that, or at least quote Marvel a bit more to compensate -- Robin is murdered by The Joker. He's brought back in the Lazarus pits as the Red Hood and holds The Joker at gunpoint and gives Batman an ultimatum; kill The Joker, or kill what is essentially his beloved adopted son who he had already lost once.

And Batman says no, he won't make that choice, and turns to walk away.

Ex-Robin is dumbstruck, heartbroken, and demands to know why Batman would let The Joker live, even after everything he's done, even after everything he would do, why he wouldn't kill The Joker.

Is it because it would be too hard?

And Batman gets furious. "Even after all these years, you still don't understand," he says. "I don't kill because it would be too easy, not because it's hard. If I cross that line just once, the next would be easier, and then it would be harder not to, and that's not a line I want to cross. After that, there's no going back."

What was the point of all that, you ask? Of that long, rambling Batman quote? How does it relate to Alice.

Well.

Imagine Alice as somebody who has already crossed that line but is trying to step back, and the only person that has the power to pull them back is themselves, because what's stopped them before has already cast judgement and stuck them here, and isn't there to do it again.

Now imagine what happens when they stop wanting to hold themselves back.

Yeah.

I will also add that, in my too-short time in this forum, I typically read a message I find myself most agreeing with, hit the quote button, and then my eyes will drift to the top of the quote tag and see your name there. I assure you, it's unintentional that I tend to single you out the most.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 22 Dec 2014, 16:30
I, for one, am ready for a new comic.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Thrudd on 22 Dec 2014, 16:45
In contrasts to the idea of super humans, robots or cyborgs I propose something a bit more tangential.
What she has displayed as abilities reminded me of a certain overstuffed boozing gun slinger / mercenary who hailed from a high gravity planet. Bucky (http://www.airshipentertainment.com/buck.html)
The nature of his nurture resulted in above average strength and durability. The rest is just attitude.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 22 Dec 2014, 17:54
Ah, I see.  Not old Ma Vicissitude at all, it's just Big Sis.
Yup.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MooskiNet on 22 Dec 2014, 18:14
That's a rather severe ass beating Alice has laid upon her, though I think getting punched silly is a small price to pay for lobbing bombs at people indiscriminately while looking for your brother.

Ardent appears to have lost his tail, though.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 22 Dec 2014, 18:21
Oh, of course. I see the family resemblance.  :roll:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: SubaruStephen on 22 Dec 2014, 18:22
Ardent appears to have lost his tail, though.

Probably retracted out of fear.

Or maybe his disguise hologram is shutting down so he can show Alice the family resemblance.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: osaka on 22 Dec 2014, 18:47
That's a rather severe ass beating Alice has laid upon her, though I think getting punched silly is a small price to pay for lobbing bombs at people indiscriminately while looking for your brother.

You're right. And Alice even gave her a chance to NOT get her ass handed to her. She refused, and paid the price. I wouldn't have even given ArdentSis the chance. Although this is for the better, since maybe ArdentSis is still alive. Which maybe wouldn't be the case if Alice had started swingin'

I can see where Ardent was going with the "heterogeneous physique" thing he said a while ago too.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 22 Dec 2014, 19:53
Well, there's a turn-up for the books!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 22 Dec 2014, 23:27
She's his sister?!? Well, all I can say is either that's an unconventional family, they have weird genetics or one of them is seriously into body modifications! I also hope that the family knows a good dentist!

Oh, BTW, loved the Batman-style "This is My Town" thing! I'm just wondering how literal a statement that is.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: hedgie on 23 Dec 2014, 00:11
One of 'em could be adopted. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 23 Dec 2014, 01:16
?

¿Que?

Ardent is from a post nanotech society. A heavily armed one, based on old sis.

Nanotech is scifi for "magic." But aside from that, Ardent was very specific in pointing out that people are largely heterogeneous where he's from. He was also miffed that Alice didn't appreciate his tail.

Ardent is from a place where people choose how they look. He chose to be small, blue and mostly naked. His sister went with something else.

Alice doesn't seem to care.

The question that comes to mind for me is whether or not Alice is keeping her town ignorant of what is possible. They're obviously ignorant. But do they want it that way or did Alice make that choice for them?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 23 Dec 2014, 01:48
The question that comes to mind for me is whether or not Alice is keeping her town ignorant of what is possible. They're obviously ignorant. But do they want it that way or did Alice make that choice for them?

If society 'outside' is massively self-modifying through nanotech and (likely) cybernetics and gene-splicing, then the concept of a 'pure' human might be increasingly lost. It is possible that the area where Alice lives is either a 'reservation' for non-conformist groups or an attempt by someone (or possibly a collection of governments and corporations) to maintain a 'pure' human bloodline, just in case all these modifications get out of hand and cause a genetic collapse (the so-called 'photocopying error' issue). For this reason, outside influences that might disrupt this purity must be kept to a minimum. However, I do think that these people are partially aware of what's going on (hence Jack and his uncle both immediately turning to Alice in an apparent crisis).

Who is Alice? She's from Outside, of course. She's the town's Caretaker, Protector, Guardian or whatever you call it. She is the one responsible for maintaining the purity, the balance and the order. It's just a paying job but, even though she attempts to affect a cynical, detached demeanour, I get the impression that she does feel a personal responsibility to these people and the little bubble world in which they live. Maybe, on a certain level, she considers it a happier life than that 'enjoyed' by those Outside.

BTW - I wonder if Ardent and his sister are from an Off-World Colony? That would explain 'up'.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MrNumbers on 23 Dec 2014, 05:05
You know what's less fun than being punched to death?

No, seriously, I'm asking, I can't think of anything..
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 23 Dec 2014, 06:24
Burning to death. Vivisection. I could think of others, but it would mean being more graphic than I care to be.

Ardent has already established a few strips ago that where he comes from people choose how they look and it's common for people to look very different from each other. So the fact that LEJ and Ardent look completely different shouldn't be at all surprising.

Alice's comments are kind of telling here.. I didn't think so earlier, but I think people's comments about this being an execution were a lot closer to the mark than not. Alice seems very possessive of the town and the people in it. And has no problem using excessive force to maintain her will. Her comments today aren't someone who's out of  control. I've been in that position she's in after losing control, where someone had to pull me off a person before beating them to death. It's not fun, and I was not thinking anything at all until two bigger kids dragged me off the guy. Alice though seems to be very much aware of what she was doing, and given the last comic was enjoying it to much.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Skewbrow on 23 Dec 2014, 09:39
Hmm. What if the Splodey Lady is Ardent's LITTLE sister? An adult would (should) have known that scaring inhabitants of a primitive planet is not kosher, and if an overseer/protector is present, not safe either. A spoiled/bored teenager on the other hand ... Anyway, it feels like this is her first contact with a primitive society running a scarcity-based economy. May be she missed that class in school?

I'm not saying that Alice was in best behavior in the previous strip. ArdentSis had it coming, but Alice could (should) have put a teenager (if she is a little sister) under control a bit less violently - irrespective of the fact that she was treating the primitives like pet rats. Yes, Alice was taking those explosions personally. Not an unnatural reaction at that display of racism, but cool it now, please.




Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 23 Dec 2014, 12:19
Big Sis looks like an adult to me.

I don't see any signs that Alice has any familiarity with the Vicissitudes' culture.  There may be some kind of Guardian thing going on here, but I bet not the way people here are thinking of it.  Let's see what Jeph shows us.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 23 Dec 2014, 13:24
I don't see any evidence that Alice is unaware of the outside culture(s).

"Assuming you're telling the truth--that you came here FROM SPACE as a TOURIST--which isn't supposed to be POSSIBLE--"

If one were to travel back in time, and have some random farmer from 1790 tell one this, I think one's initial reaction would be smug. You'd know that your little trip was possible, and having the primitive tell you it wasn't would underscore their ignorance.

But what if you knew it wasn't supposed to be possible? Because of timey whimey, wibbly-wobbly...stuff. Something you were sure no primitive could be aware of? Then your reaction might be less smug and more, "How do you know that?"

It's possible to read Ardent's question as a challenge: How do you know that your assumption is correct. But I think, putting it together with "I made it!" that Ardent is fully aware of some wibbly wobbly stuff that should have prevented him from getting in. He's wondering how this freaking kill-joy called Alice could possibly know.

I wouldn't be surprised is his "making it" has seriously disrupted that stuff, allowing "big" sis in (I'm not assuming sis is older that Ardent. I'm assuming she's more violent).

Alice is aware of the technology of the outside culture(s), and she's not afraid of it. I guess that could go either way--she could be too ignorant to know that she should be afraid of weaponized nanotechnology--but her confidence, and accuracy of prediction suggests she has a lot of experience with it.

Alice doesn't have to be from Outside to know what she knows, but I think it's a fair bet that she has been in contact with the outside enough to have a working idea of what it is like and what she is dealing with.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 23 Dec 2014, 14:33
@ReindeerFlotilla,

Maybe it isn't the 'from space' thing that was so impossible. It was the 'come here as a tourist" thing that was so impossible. Maybe this little family's particular subgroup of post-humans have worked out long-range teleportation to get around the preserve's defences that were meant to keep them 100% isolated and interdicted. Additionally, in Alice's (admittedly cynical) world-view, of all the things for which to use this technology, coming to rubber-neck at the primitives isn't one that immediately occurs to her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 23 Dec 2014, 14:56
It is 'The Village' a few centuries on.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 23 Dec 2014, 15:19
Maybe it isn't the 'from space' thing that was so impossible. It was the 'come here as a tourist" thing that was so impossible.

I'm not really trying to conjecture on what is or isn't supposed to be possible, or even on what Alice thinks is possible or not. The emphasis is in the original. That's how Alice said it.

What I am saying is that Alice is aware that something should have prevented Ardent getting in, and and so is Ardent. The point being that it shows Alice is familiar with the Outside. A case in point being her reluctance to think of Ardent as "Alien." She knows he's human (for whatever values of human apply in this universe). She's unsurprised that a human might be short, blue, pointy, with a tail. She has reason to believe that a human would not be from space (either people didn't live in space the last time she checked, or something prevents humans from transitioning between surface and orbit).

But mostly, she is supremely confident that she can deal with whatever might come in from outside. That suggests either a lot of experience with the Outside, or a thorough knowledge of what the Outside is capable of.

I recall some discussion of Alice's somewhat harsh response to Ardent being... repressive. But let's consider the facts as we know them now. Whatever she is, Alice is enormously powerful. She's also direct. She solves threats with her fists. There's a bit of the Doctor in her. Big sis attacked her town, but Alice was going to let that slide. Just like the 2005+ Doctor, what was done before Alice arrived is past. Not ignored, but she offered one chance.

One.

After that, she was was going to beat the girl to death, or at least to grievous injury (Blackened eyes, a broken nose, lacerations in the mouth--or internal bleeding in the GI or air way--between her first evil smile and Ardent's intervention, Alice knocked a tooth out of LEJ's mouth...or into it).

I don't know that the speculation about Alice's history is relevant, but the implications from it--that she has reason for not beating everything around her to a fine paste--applies to her "repressive" attitude. For whatever reason (she doesn't usually enjoy violence? Ardent hadn't risen to the level of threat required?) she had not flattened him. But her reactions to him are colored by the fact that what she is doing to his sister was how she would handle him if he crossed the line.

As of now, I suspect that this is not a side of herself she likes. Mostly because of the look she gave Jack when he asked if she would handle it in the event that Ardent became trouble. In retrospect, that look suggests a bit of "Yes, I will use the worst parts of me to protect your taking-it-for-granted ass." Basically, her whole attitude towards that situation reads a lot less like being a jerk and a lot more like "Don't make me angry, Mr. McGee. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

Probably too much speculation there. The main point: Alice's actions, from the moment she appeared and immediately fell off a windmill, strongly suggest she is highly familiar with the Outside.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 23 Dec 2014, 15:43
Certainly she is familiar with the outside.  But I don't get the impression that she knows anything about wherever Ardent's from.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 23 Dec 2014, 16:35
In fiction terms, one might expect her to. Realistically speaking, what do you know about Ruzayevka? Probably as much as I do, which is nothing. I pointed at a map and picked the closet thing. But what do you know about Russia?  I pointed at a map of Russia to make the point.

Alice may not know anything about the subculture Ardent comes from, but I'm betting she is familiar with the large culture it fits in. I suspect the villagers are as well, at a remove. There's a reason Jack expects her to protect them from things they don't understand. Maybe it's just that she said she would, but I suspect it's because they've seen her do this kind of thing before.

Maybe not so closely. Maybe with less explosion.

"You're with me. That means you're none of their business." Either Alice rules with an iron fist, not exactly ruled out by the scenes we've seen, or she has a habit of dealing with stuff, and the people know it's safer to let her handle it. It seems likely, if it's the latter, that stuff has include things from Outside.

Jack boy, you're a fast runner. Go get the witch." It's all folklore and nothing has ever happened around the village--Or enough people have encountered oddities from outside that it is generally known to each village that the first thing you do is call Alice, whether you've seen something or not.

"Did you do any research on our culture before you came?" Alice seems to expect outsiders to have information on what it's like in the village.  I would certainly expect the same to be true of most places in Russia, regarding where I live. I wouldn't assume most Russians have done any research, but I would expect the information to be available.

I don't know that Alice does know a lot about Ardent's home or not. That she only guessed "nanotech" suggests she's not playing with an information advantage (And also that there are other ways to achieve sinister upright flight and explosions). But she's familiar with places that use nanotech in that manner and do body modification, in the same way that I am familiar with Russia but ignorant of Ruzayevka.

Alice is the (self?) appointed manager of her "Grove," and it seems like "beating things that threaten it into bloody pulp" is part of the job description. I'm guessing that falls under the label "Guardian."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Dec 2014, 19:12
It is 'The Village' a few centuries on.
Ugh, I fucking hope not.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 23 Dec 2014, 20:46
I kinda think it is
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: de_la_Nae on 23 Dec 2014, 21:41
Good to know I can still count on you people to be silly.

LEJ earned her death. While I'm not exactly rooting for summary execution, the evidence at our disposal says that she's hilariously dangerous (by 'normal' human standards), volatile, and has the will to kill unarmed (as far as she knew) noncombatants attempting to dialogue. She had *no qualms* about killing a little country gal that, at best, mildly inconvenienced her by standing nearby.

I'd be hard-pressed to blame Alice if she simply snapped her neck and had done with it now. She *probably* won't, but how certain are you that the prisoner can be contained? That her viciousness and technology can be suppressed? If Alice fails to subdue LEJ, how many of the men, women, and children under her stewardship will die, screaming as their flesh cracks, boils, and burns?

Prooooobably not quite where it's gonna end up going, but hey.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: SubaruStephen on 23 Dec 2014, 22:24
It is 'The Village' a few centuries on.
Ugh, I fucking hope not.

Called it!
Oh, I get it, we've got an M. Night Shyamalon's The Village situation going on.


(Yes, I know I spelled his name wrong)

Gloat, gloat, gloaty, gloat!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 23 Dec 2014, 23:26
@de_la_NAE,

Don't ask me why, but I've got a feeling that Ms Explosion will be almost ridiculously submissive and apologetic. She wasn't expecting the primitives to have such an effective Guardian who would take her 'harmless game' so seriously. Yes, I'm thinking of a society so utopian, cynical and bored with its technology-produced perfection that lethal violence has become a sort of entertainment. Ardent was bored so he went to impregnate a few primatives. His sister was bored so she went out to kill a few people for giggles (What? Their nanotech will resurrect them after a few hours!).

I still need to hear brother and sister's story but, until then, that's my theory.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 24 Dec 2014, 09:22
I don't think she was expecting a guardian at all.  That's one of the things that makes me think Alice's role is something at least slightly different than being mooted.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Undrneath on 24 Dec 2014, 10:50
I'm not sure if Alice is a guardian because she chose to or possibly as community service.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Dec 2014, 11:40
Unless Alice had access to a quick way to shut down Ardentsis with less harm, it was not excessive force. Alice was acting to protect innocent life from an immediate lethal danger.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 24 Dec 2014, 12:02
And enjoying it a wee bit too much


Beware the Dark Side young Alice
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 24 Dec 2014, 12:06
Breaking her shield and knocking the wind out of her with a one-two sucker punch was sufficient force to stop the immediate threat and re-open dialog. Straddling Ms Explosion and beating her bloody with an evil grin was pure excessive force.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 24 Dec 2014, 13:07
I can't imagine Ardent's sister put any more effort into looking at the history and culture of the "Grove" than Ardent did. Ardent wasn't expecting Alice either.

Given the fact that the locals feel obligated to thank Alice for playing carefully balanced harmony cop, and her positive glee at beating up Ardent's sister, I tend to doubt the theory that Alice is doing this under duress. It's not ruled out as an idea, but Alice seems like a believer.

I would hope that Alice is something other than the self-appointed caretaker of the Grove. After all, having her there as some sort of super powered community service injects questions. Why is she doing community service? Why would something sentence her to that? What could enforce that sentence?

It's not that there aren't enough unanswered questions. Some of them are even about Alice. It's just that "I believe this is the right thing to do" is an answer. It resolves more questions than it raises.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: explicit on 24 Dec 2014, 20:39
Frankly, I like the idea of her character being more of an anti-hero. Or at least being kinda messed in the head. Makes it more interesting and less predictable.

And to be fair, girl tried to blow her up.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 25 Dec 2014, 04:33
I've come to the conclusion that the only things that would be wrong about killing Ardent's sister in this situation are A) she's beaten. You shoot a mad dog when it's loose, but when it's contained and unable to resist there are more humane methods. Beating LEJ death with punches, at this point, is uncalled for. B) Ardent is there. Alice doesn't owe him anything, but on the other hand she doesn't have anything to hold against him, other than being annoying. Being annoying is not a good enough reason to beat someone's sibling to death in front of them.

I guess we'll son find out what kind of person Alice really is. I don't think she's going to kill anyone, this time. How she goes about not killing anyone ought to be instructive.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: explicit on 25 Dec 2014, 09:36
I mean, she's obviously a bit too smart not to try to figure this situation out.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: FunkyTuba on 26 Dec 2014, 17:05
Right... With now two unexpected and unwelcome visits from the same source, the stronger move as a caretaker is to find the source of these new threats and see if there's anything to be done at a higher level
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: jwhouk on 26 Dec 2014, 17:46
Explosions From The Sky! Who is our ethereal explosives expert?

Ardent's mother.    5 (15.6%)
Ardent's guardian.    4 (12.5%)
Ardent's master (as in, pet).    4 (12.5%)
The Caretaker from the Next Block Over.    6 (18.8%)
Someone who likes things go Splodey.    4 (12.5%)
The Explosion Messiah.    0 (0%)
Alice's best friend from seventh grade.    1 (3.1%)
Alice's Nemesis from High school.    1 (3.1%)
Juicy's descendant.    2 (6.3%)
Just like Jeph said: Lady Explosion Jesus.    3 (9.4%)
Except she pronounces it "HAY-zeus."    2 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 32

---

Sadly, the correct answer wasn't a poll option.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 27 Dec 2014, 01:33
Right... With now two unexpected and unwelcome visits from the same source, the stronger move as a caretaker is to find the source of these new threats and see if there's anything to be done at a higher level

Agreed. Gathering information is always a smarter move than violence. If Spock taught us anything, he taught us that.

But it comes at a risk LEJ is a threat to lives and livelihoods (which is to say "lives" again). Alice doesn't need her to find out about the next levels up the chain. She has Ardent. So, the logical question becomes, "is this woman's knowledge worth risking more lives to obtain?"

I'm not advocating killing her--that would be boring* storytelling, at the least. I'm just having fun with the moral quandry LEJ has become. One could argue, for any position, that any choice Alice makes is right and wrong.

* Unless Alice Grove is the origin story of an ancient blood feud between Ardent and Alice
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Neko_Ali on 27 Dec 2014, 07:47
I disagree. Killing Ms Explosion right now would be straight up murder. It would be an execution without trial or even arrest. Initially she had proven to be a threat, willing to cause mass damage and potentially lethal force to get her way. But after she had the fight literally knocked out of her and is laying there in a dazed state, killing her because maybe when she recovers she could do more damage is not morally justified. Now is the time to disarm her if possible and move her to a more secure area. I'm certainly not justifying anything Her Expodiness did looking for Ardent, and she should face repercussions for blowing up the town and scaring, possibly injuring or killing townsfolk and making an attack on the person trying to defuse (literally) the situation. But murder should not be considered a reasonable option.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: FunkyTuba on 27 Dec 2014, 11:31
We've seen showy explosions, and at one point Alice thought LEJ enough of a threat to tell her wards to get to safety, but we haven't seen much actual damage (yet). I'll be interested to see what aftermath there is and how big a threat she really was.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 27 Dec 2014, 12:27
Back to repairing the Wind Turbine - again
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 27 Dec 2014, 14:53
ARDENTSIS: "You hit pretty hard."

ALICE: "Well, I was trying to kill you."

ARDENTSIS: "Ditto."

JACK: "Hey, weren't they ready to kill each other five minutes ago?"

ARDENT: "They're Caretakers. It's sort of a bonding ritual with them."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 28 Dec 2014, 01:24
Murder assumes the existence of a justice system. We don't know that any such thing exists.  I don't doubt that Alice was going to kill her, or worse (That last panel is not the face of someone who could resist. Alice was already beating the helpless).

It's easy to say that X is not morally justified because Y might happen. But then Y happens, X is retroactively justified and Not X becomes the immoral action. It's all perspectives. You might stick to your guns, but that doesn't mean everyone will. Perspectives are academic except to the person what actually has to choose. That makes it easy to declare that This is not morally justified.

Alice didn't beat Ardent's sister down because she's a threat. She did it because she was angry. And because she seemed to enjoy it. But that doesn't change the fact that Ardent's sister is a weapon on mass destruction. Or the fact that she launched a large scale attack without any reasonable justification. (Trying to kill people and destroy their infrastructure--which amounts to a repetition in this instance--because they might know where that "rat" can be found is not morally justified.)  Alice would be justified in construing LEJ's actions as an act of war.

The question, as yet unanswered, is whether Alice answers to a higher authority, or is the higher authority. In the later case, trials aren't relevant.

On a more personal level, the question of what is or isn't justified in this case IS the interesting point. Were LEJ a threat to Alice, Alice would be justified in killing her. Self defense. It all boils down the the perception of imminent danger If Alice believed she was in danger from LEJ, even now, lethal force would be justified. To a lesser extent, if Alice believed there was danger to others, she would also be justified. Legally, under most western law.

Morally? That's a moving target. But that's not fully relevant. Alice is NOT in danger. LEJ doesn't represent any kind of threat to Alice from what we've seen. To the extent that she represents a threat to others, as logn as Alice is near by, the threat is limited in scale. LEJ might kill one or two people before Alice could intervene, but it's unlikely she could introduce the same level of havoc as she'd created before Alice arrived.

So, one could argue that Alice doesn't have a moral justification to kill. If she does not, and someone else dies because she didn't, does Alice's moral uprightness justify that death? How much ar Alice's town, her people, her rectitude worth? Is she willing to trade one for the other two? What might happen because of that trade is an unknown, but the moment she chooses, she betting one for the others. She could make the "Moral" choice, avoid stains, and hang the town and the people in the balance.

Or she can get dirty and ensure the safety of the innocent. Depending on what element you consider more important (lives or morals) you can frame any choice Alice makes as the wrong choice. Not just incorrect, but morally lacking.

I still don't think Alice is going to kill anyone today. But the WHY has the potential to be interesting.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Orkboy on 28 Dec 2014, 08:43
I suspect that most of you are fairly peaceful people, so I should explain how an actual fight works.  You don't win by knocking the other person down, or hitting them a little bit and then they stop, or by restraining them.  You win by hurting them badly enough that they never want to fight you again.  When that person can explode things with their mind, explodes things a lot, and greeted you by attempting to murder you via explosions, extra beatings seem like a reasonable way of discouraging them from ever trying that again.  Explodo-lass is clearly some kind of homicidal lunatic, wandering into town and blowing shit up as a means of information gathering.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: de_la_Nae on 28 Dec 2014, 10:33
Ender up here gets it (though Reindeer breaks it down pretty damned well).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 28 Dec 2014, 18:41
Murder assumes the existence of a justice system.
I really want to respond to this, but I can't think of a way that wouldn't start a capital punishment debate.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 28 Dec 2014, 19:09
Please don't
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 28 Dec 2014, 19:09
Well...yeah, I know. That's why I didn't.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: explicit on 28 Dec 2014, 20:00
I'm all for grit. And for a story with female MC who can kill people without being an over the top villain, 2-dimensional mercenary/assassin, psychotic or get really whiny after they kill someone. For online comics only flipside and grrlpower come to mind atm. Guys get to be badasses all the time.

Although egregious violence is sufficient - I guess.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 29 Dec 2014, 00:52
Murder assumes the existence of a justice system.
I really want to respond to this, but I can't think of a way that wouldn't start a capital punishment debate.

Meh. I wasn't making a value judgment vis a vis systems of law. That's a whole different moral debate. I was responding to "would be murder."

I mean "murder" has several meanings that (almost) all point to the same thing in different contexts. It just seems to me that all homicide is murder outside the legal context--except for accidents. That is to say, if A kills B during the act of attempting to harm B, most people wouldn't bat an eye if you said "A murdered B." So to look at Alice killing LEJ as murdering her, now, but not before now does imply the legal context of murder. For that, you have to have a justice system.

I'd really think my suggested that Alice might be the law would rather more lend itself to a capital punishment debates, but again, that wasn't my intent.

I suppose, the internet being what it is, one could construe my interest in the subject as a judgment that LEJ deserves to die. I don't think that at all. I once said that no one deserves anything. I meant it. "To die" is a thing. QED.

I simply hesitate to judge Alice's actions, or potential actions, because I'm putting myself in Alice's place. I can see a number of perspectives Alice could look on the matter from. I'm putting myself in Alice's place because what she has already done makes me uncomfortable. The Ender Wiggin theory of conflict resolution has a point, but I always thought Ender erred on the side of "you can never be too sure." which is why so few people survived his lessons. If your aim is to make sure your assailant knows not to make the mistake of attacking you again, you have to leave them alive. The dead know nothing. I never liked that side of Ender  (partly because he managed to be oblivious to the fact that he did kill people). I've never liked it in action heroes because they tend to be so off hand about it. I can't say I'm overly fond of it in Alice. (I also can't help but think the story has been structured to make me feel that way. Leaving aside "deserves," Alice being asked to stop, refusing, and then a shot of what she'd already done left with question of whether she will do more unresolved doesn't seem calibrated to make the reader sympathize with Alice.)

But we don't know what this really means. We really don't know anything about Alice as a person. The down side to a twice weekly update schedule. We know she's capable of great violence and continuous altruism. We don't know why for any of it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 29 Dec 2014, 01:24
For now, I'm sticking with my "Alice is an ex-con doing community service" theory. It is quite possible that she has experience with murder and may not be 100% mentally stable when in a fight-or-flight situation or when people and things she values are threatened.

I'm also sticking with my theory that Ardent's sister may not be aware of just what she did and why it would be considered criminal and even evil. It is quite possible that, thanks to nanotech, even most forms of death are curable (especially if the process begins immediately post-mortem). In such a society, it is possible that killing someone because you're annoyed is not considered too different from cussing them out or slapping them for an insult. She could be quite horrified if Alice tells her that there was the real likelihood that some of her targets would have remained dead. The nature of their society leaves people of their culture emotionally and mentally stunted, with all the impulse control of a toddler and a borderline-psychotic sense of selfishness (because there is no serious impact such a mindset could have on society and others - indeed their society is designed to fulfil every selfish whim instantly).

We could easily have a fascinating few dozen strips with Alice explaining to Ardent and his sister about society works without self-modification and other technologies that make any wish come true immediately and without consequence. Jeph could turn the normal narrative on its head by, instead of having the primitive wandering slacked-jawed through a technologically advanced society, instead have the children of a techologically-enabled utopia trying to understand a world where one has to sweat and work to gain anything and actions often have irrevocable consequences.

Oh, and a prediction - Ardent is going to become Alice's special friend: the Angel on her shoulder who helps her rein in her bloodthirsty impulses when the dark tide swallows her up.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 29 Dec 2014, 18:34
It would seem Alice is the law.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: SubaruStephen on 29 Dec 2014, 18:52
I guess that means ArdentSis is still alive.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 29 Dec 2014, 18:56
But for how long?




Just kidding. :)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 29 Dec 2014, 19:06
I wonder if her blue right hand is a mistake, a bruise, or something else!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 29 Dec 2014, 19:33
$5 on mistake.

Also, every time someone points one of these error out, it makes me question my sanity in wanting to produce a comic of my own.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 29 Dec 2014, 20:57
I would totally buy a LEJ on eBay.  If cheap enough.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 29 Dec 2014, 23:26
So! Alice has a personal authority that seems to go beyond being held in respectful awe by the locals; maybe even an official authority, recognised by the local government. Maybe she is considered to have jurisdiction over any 'weird' happenings and persons. It's also quite possible that she has standing instructions not to allow those from Outside to interact too much with the 'Livestock'.

I wonder if her blue right hand is a mistake, a bruise, or something else!

It could be a mistake. However, that may be their natural skin colour and the damage Alice has done is causing the nanotech disguise to start to break down.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: anahata on 30 Dec 2014, 03:10
ARDENTSIS: "You hit pretty hard."

ALICE: "Well, I was trying to kill you."

I don't think she was. Alice's intention was to disarm ArdentSis, and maybe to find out what all the fuss was about, but not to kill her.

OK, maybe there was a momentary lapse when she seemed to be enjoying the violence, but I don't think that's her main motivation in life. So far, she's been portrayed as a moral-minded force for good.

Ardent's sister may have been trying to kill Alice. I don't think we have enough information about her even to be sure about that.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Skewbrow on 30 Dec 2014, 13:13
It could be a mistake. However, that may be their natural skin colour and the damage Alice has done is causing the nanotech disguise to start to break down.

My theory, too.

For Chris'sake, Alice. Let the Doc take a look.

The Doc may actually overrule Alice here. He seems like an ok dude, so whatever they have in this 'verse in place of the Hippocratic oath kicks in.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Kugai on 30 Dec 2014, 13:16
It would seem Alice is the law.

Judge Alice?


"I have an IsoCube ready for her."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 30 Dec 2014, 13:30
As badly as Alice beat her, I don't think LEJ is in the woods, as it were. Doc's attitude doesn't strike me a professional interest. He's either seen to her already, or he believes she's not in need of his services, based on the phrasing.

Alice also doesn't strike me as the "its not okay to kill you, but its okay to let you die" type. I figure if she was going to do LEJ in, she'd have gone ahead and done it.

Even more speculatively, I suspect there's something to the assumption that Outsiders are harder to kill because their nanotech makes injury and death less of a long term issue. Doc may not be equipped to help, and Alice may know it. That said, the "none of your business" motif is beginning to look like a character flaw of Alice's.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ysth on 30 Dec 2014, 13:43
Is it a character flaw if it is not their business?

From the stated injuries, I get the impression the fireballs were more show than force.  If they'd really been dangerous, I'd expect at least some actual burns.  On the flip side, LEJ certainly didn't expect Alice to still be standing there, so you'd have to say she was only surprised that Alice didn't run away, which doesn't seem completely plausible.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 30 Dec 2014, 14:25
Is it a character flaw if it is not their business?

I guess that depends on whether you believe in the divine right of kings or self-determination.

Less politically speaking--their business or not, the way Alice says it is kinda rude.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: BenRG on 30 Dec 2014, 14:45
Yes, Alice can be rude, abrupt and apparently has a vicious streak a mile wide that can sneak out under stress. This makes her an interesting character. It all feeds into my idea that she's a violent ex-con whose parole involves protecting this little Bubble World.

Is it a character flaw if it is not their business?

Is it a character flaw if the whole situation has left Alice spooked and upset (allowing her supposedly long-buried former murderous self out to play)? I'd snap too if I'd lost my cool and only a random intervention stopped me from doing something horrible and something for which even I couldn't forgive myself.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 30 Dec 2014, 16:16
I never said Alice shouldn't have flaws.

Like I said, we don't know anything about Alice's character yet. We don't know the shape of the why behind what she does. Since a lot of webcomic dialogue is aimed at the punchline, you can't take any one statement as representative of the character.

Don't get me wrong. It's fun to think about what the odd bit of information might mean. Definitely nothing wrong there.

The first "none of [their] business" was a punch line. This time it's--at least--thematic. It definitely means something. ysth could be totally right. The answer to Doc's question could be Alice Grove's Secret of Salem. A fact so disturbing that knowing it drives most people mad. And there's no real way to know who can handle it and who can't. In that case, it really would be none of their business.

That would be kind of interesting, or maybe super interesting. A mystery is cool. It is hard to say with Alice Grove because we already have more questions than answers (we always have more questions than answers, but sometimes we know enough about a story that we don't think the unanswered questions are pressing, so we welcome a new mystery). It seems fairly common for people to be drawn in by the sense that the new questions are guiding them toward the answers to the first questions.

In Alice Grove, the first question is "who (what) is Alice?" (Okay, the FIRST questions are "who is this guy, and why is he running?" but we know the answers to that.) A character flaw is a pointer toward the answer to that first question. Hindsight may show that "keeps people in the dark/kinda rude" are not the first flaws we saw in Alice. It's hard to tell what aspects of her personality we've seen, because Ardent is annoying from a certain point of view. (I notice that some people did take issue with Alice's reaction to Ardent, but most did not seem to. So, whether he annoyed you or not--he did not annoy me, you can see how he annoyed Alice from something like her perspective.)

It's possible that her behavior to this point has been indicative of who she is, thus making "kinda rude" nothing new (She has been kinda rude to Ardent, but she also seemed to think he was a con man). It's also possible that Kinda rude is not a flaw of this character, but some other flaw brings a little rude out in times like this. Or, it really could be better for all involved if they don't know what Alice knows: That they live in a world that has walls, and they need women with super powers to guard those walls. Who's going to do that? You?

You, Lt. Weinburg? She has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what she knows. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And her existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want her on that wall, you need her on that wall...

Err... Excuse me. I was someone else for a moment there.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: MrNumbers on 30 Dec 2014, 21:48
"Forgive me, but only one of us here has taken the Hippocratic Oath."

"Yes, which means only one of us is equipped to deal with what must come next."

"I'm glad you agree."

"I meant me, Doctor."

"... oh, dear."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDT - December 2014
Post by: Method of Madness on 01 Jan 2015, 06:17
"Forgive me, but only one of us here has taken the Hippocratic Oath."

"Yes, which means only one of us is equipped to deal with what must come next."

"I'm glad you agree."

"I meant me, Doctor."
"I know you did. And you know I can't allow that."

Not sure if there's anything he can or will do stop Alice, but I do hope he objects all the same.