and probably learn all sorts of hilariously embarrassing stories about Claire.
Nitpick: It's "weirder".
I think that option (3) is bizarrely (although it involved Faye virtually having a nervous break-down) the least painful. The other two options involve Faye going through a period of self-ostracism and further decline.
Dora seemed to have no idea that Faye was drunk all day if she was that surprised to see Faye drinking. Faye may be more functioning than we gave her credit before, not that it's a good thing.
I've been embarrassed before about coming into work slightly hungover, regardless of the fact others were as well and no one said anything. The stress and self loathing from drinking, even a single beer, before work, would be unbearable.
Actually drinking, on the job?
I can understand why people can and do rationalize it when they're already alcoholics, but I get a sick feeling in my stomach just at the idea of doing that. I understand that, at the bottom of it, Faye's job is really safe and no one's life is ruined if she screws up their coffee, but it's the principle of the thing. If you're accepting money from someone for doing something, you have a responsibility to not sabotage yourself.
Just noticed something... Compare Faye's face in the last panel of 2876 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2876) to Faye's face in the last panel of 2755 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2755). Apparently this is Faye's "I'm lying about this" face.
Who put alcohol in my hand?
Who put alcohol in my hand?Just noticed something... Compare Faye's face in the last panel of 2876 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2876) to Faye's face in the last panel of 2755 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2755). Apparently this is Faye's "I'm lying about this" face.
That's her "I'm so damned clever" face.
Who put alcohol in my hand?It's too nervous an expression for cleverface. It's her "I hope I'm not caught" face.Just noticed something... Compare Faye's face in the last panel of 2876 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2876) to Faye's face in the last panel of 2755 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2755). Apparently this is Faye's "I'm lying about this" face.
That's her "I'm so damned clever" face.
It's too nervous an expression for cleverface. It's her "I hope I'm not caught" face.
That's not the same bottle she found when she woke up. Is she already on her second bottle of the day?
Oh shit, it's confrontation time.
Oh shit, it's confrontation time.
No no. It's filler robots being wacky time.
THEN it's confrontation time.
Ummm... a fifth is larger than a pint. A pint is only an eighth of a gallon, half a quart.And that's what I get for working in the sciences. I screw up the imperial units instead.
Oh, but it will be the confrontation of Marten with Claire's parents, globviously
Ooh, and I just remember the last panel of this strip (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1720).
Well, shit.Real time is very different from QC time. A few hours in QC may stretch over several weeks our time. So if you want QC time to synchronize with your time, you will have to spend most of your time in hibernation. Alternatively, speed away from Earth at 99% lightspeed (and try to get reliable Internet connection during the trip).
I'm not sure I want to watch this play out one-strip-a-day in real time. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a few weeks off and come back when there's a small backlog...
Wow, sounds like I have a problem... :-oYou are not alone.
We are wathcing a drama unfolding in extremely slow motion from our point of view. This is not necessarily bad, as it gives time for us to think and discuss possible outcomes. But I agree, it is frustrating at times. However, it would be even more frustrating taking a few weeks off, knowing that something important might have happened in QC.
So, showing up drunk is one of Dora's red lines. Does she know Faye has a problem?
Seriously Faye, up your tee-shirt?
Ummm... a fifth is larger than a pint. A pint is only an eighth of a gallon, half a quart.
It's not just her backstory. There's also:
My point is that early 20s hedonism isn't necessarily a problem. Everyone I worked with at that place is fine now, and most have settled down with families into relatively mellow, sober lives. If not for Faye's backstory, I would find this arc more of a comedy than a tragedy.
It's not just her backstory. There's also:
My point is that early 20s hedonism isn't necessarily a problem. Everyone I worked with at that place is fine now, and most have settled down with families into relatively mellow, sober lives. If not for Faye's backstory, I would find this arc more of a comedy than a tragedy.
a) She's not using alcohol because of her backstory, or because she just likes having a buzz on through the day; she's using it to get past her hurt over Angus.
b) She's in a work environment where it is a problem, and
c) she knows that. And furthermore
d) she's lying about it,
e) clumsily.
Even without her backstory, I'm just not seeing "comedy."
At the very least, I think it might be time for a little role-reversal of another, not dis-similar incident (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1808).
Dora knows what's going on, and I don't think she will fire Faye over it. But, she will want her to get help ASAP, and will probably utilise any influence she has to get her to fix herself up. Even calling Angus over to talk to her would probably not be considered "below the belt", I don't think (would that week have passed in QC time, I wonder?).
or someone had given her an entirely exaggerated impression of Faye's martial prowess...
Y'know, I never worked out what made Padma do that.Didn't they fight the first time they met? Padma probably assumed it was their version of a secret handshake from then on.
And then, just to mess with everyone's heads, Padma comes back to town to see Marten.
Padma was ... exotic
Well, that happened a lot sooner than I thought it would.
You're assuming Faye is going to be "healed"...Well, that happened a lot sooner than I thought it would.
Almost too soon, like soap opera soon. "Oh no, Faye has a problem! Everyone help Faye!" "It's a very special episode. Wow. Very sad. Much drama." "Hurray, Faye is healed and everyone lived ever after."
Well, that happened a lot sooner than I thought it would.
Almost too soon, like soap opera soon. "Oh no, Faye has a problem! Everyone help Faye!" "It's a very special episode. Wow. Very sad. Much drama." "Hurray, Faye is healed and everyone lived ever after."
I personally would have preferred to leave her stew in her own juices for a longer time. After all, real alcoholism brews for years, easily. Now, how it's portrayed, it's almost like how you got your first bottle of wine and tried to sneak out with it, but your own guilty damn face rat you out. (Early end to of that party, that time. :cry:)
Anyway, it's Jeph's comic.
(http://the365effect.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ShitHitsFanMediumT.png)
I just noticed the title of today's comic. Probably a joke reference to Faye's piss poor attempt at deception, but perhaps some foreshadowing as well. The question is, will she be hospital-bound after this because of violence committed by Dora or because of some tragic drunken accident (i.e. "accident")?
Realism is not the order of the day. If Jeph think it would make a good punchline, it's going to happen.Except that considering how close this particular storyline hits home for Jeph, I doubt there's going to be any real "punchline".
I just noticed the title of today's comic. Probably a joke reference to Faye's piss poor attempt at deception, but perhaps some foreshadowing as well. The question is, will she be hospital-bound after this because of violence committed by Dora or because of some tragic drunken accident (i.e. "accident")?
If Dora carried out an assault that put Faye in hospital, she'd be shortly after put in jail.
Does that sound likely?
It is certainly one of those times when it's hard to be the boss of your friends. Friend Dora would very much like it if Faye wasn't hurting so much and would like to help her friend. Boss Dora is just tired of this shit.
Realism is not the order of the day. If Jeph think it would make a good punchline, it's going to happen.Except that considering how close this particular storyline hits home for Jeph, I doubt there's going to be any real "punchline".
There's a lot that Questionable Content will make jokes about, but there are certain topics that are treated completely seriously and I would wager that Faye's descent into alcoholism is one of them.
There's no knowing where he draws the line, unless he comes in here and tells us.
Pissed Dora is pissed. I've lost track of which chance this is for Faye, but I could definitely see Dora interpreting this as "one chance too many", even if just on a whim or because Faye's being indifferent to the responsibility Dora has trusted her with.
...except for the fact we know she's already under stress over Sven.
So no Friend Dora present at all, just Boss Dora. Interesting. Maybe she figured there was nothing to say that hadn't already been said.
Is anyone else a little confused at Faye's apparent lack of reaction? I was expecting at least a little guilt or something in panel 2 but there's nothing, it's just like "yeah...and?". Likewise in panel 4, shock or dismay? Maybe the booze is blunting her emotional response and she'll hit a wall back home (metaphorically, and quite possibly literally)....except for the fact we know she's already under stress over Sven.
Has she, or anyone, even mentioned Sven in the last 100 comics? #2784 was the last mention of that drama I could find.
I don't think we've seen how pissed Dora could get over this. Faye crossed one of her stated employment rules, and then tried to lie about it to her face - shortly after Dora entrusted her with extra responsibility at the shop. I think we may see Dora reach entirely new levels of "pissed" over this, and I also think both Faye's job AND their friendship is now in grave danger.
I also do not think we will see Faye be healed quickly either - she's entirely too stubborn to give up her "coping mechanism" so easily. I suspect we are seeing the beginning of Faye's long ugly slide down into the gutter, either metaphorically or literally.
Is anyone else a little confused at Faye's apparent lack of reaction?No. Even drunk, she knows damn well she hasn't a leg to stand on.
I don't think we've seen how pissed Dora could get over this.
Telling Faye 'Get out, you're fired' is totally in character for Dora.Oh, absolutely in character. My criticism wasn't at Jeph. Something can be in character and still absolutely fucking terrible.
Oh, FUCK YOU, Dora. What a stupid fucking thing to do.She already gave Faye a warning and sent her home the day before. Dora has already stated on at least one occasion that she didn't want Faye drinking on the job and said to Hanners and Cosette that she's relatively okay as a boss as long as they don't come in drunk or high. Well Faye has already gotten a warning and she's broken one of the rules that would have been in her contract. It's not a stupid thing to fire someone when they blatantly ignore the rules you have in place in the workplace.
Not firing Faye, extreme, but justified. I mean firing Faye NOW. It'd be one thing if she told Faye to go home and they'd talk in the morning, but firing her when she's drunk and hurting? Faye will no longer feel like she has anything to hold back for, so what happens next will probably be much worse than maintaining a buzz.
To be honest, I'm kind of glad to see Faye get fired, and hope that it sticks...at least for a little while. I think this is a storyline that needs serious consequences, and shouldn't be resolved quickly and within a week of strips. If there has been a weakness in the writing of QC over the years, it's that a storyline will lead up to a drama bomb, and then everything is over and done with and resolved very quickly, with minimal fallout or residual tension in a situation where there really should be some fences to mend and lasting consequences to deal with.
To be honest, I'm kind of glad to see Faye get fired, and hope that it sticks...at least for a little while. I think this is a storyline that needs serious consequences, and shouldn't be resolved quickly and within a week of strips. If there has been a weakness in the writing of QC over the years, it's that a storyline will lead up to a drama bomb, and then everything is over and done with and resolved very quickly, with minimal fallout or residual tension in a situation where there really should be some fences to mend and lasting consequences to deal with.
So you're hoping for "Dora and Marten not speaking for 200 strips" level of drama.
The problem is the fair but firm response is firing Faye. If Faye wants to skip work to stay home and get drunk thats one thing but her choosing to come in drunk and planning to drink on the job when quite frankly she's already a poor worker sober shows a lack of respect on Faye part. No one would bat an eyelash if Dora did this to unnamed employee #3. Faye being her best friend is no excuse either.
Like I said before, telling her to go home, giving both an opportunity to cool off. Firing her in the morning would've still been much better.Would that have stopped Faye from coming in drunk the next morning? Or the morning after that? Where's the cut off point there?
Faye isn't just her employee or her friend. Faye is her assistant manager, the person she's supposed to be able to be trust beyond a shadow of a doubt, and she just slapped Dora's trust in the face.Now I sort of want to see Penny's reaction when she finds out Faye's been fired. There will be celebrations...
My prediction: Faye cleans up in a few days (comic time), asks for her job back, and of course gets her original job back but finds out Penny is the new asst. manager. Hilarity ensues.
But friendship goes both ways: BECAUSE Faye is her friend, Dora must be feeling all the more hurt and betrayed by Faye's behavior. Her friend is sneaking, lying, and showing zero respect or concern for Dora's business, which Faye has every reason to know is extremely important to Dora. Especially after trusting Faye enough to give her the assistant manager position, Dora must be feeling seriously betrayed.
Or a sad, mournful aside to herself "Not like this. Not like this." Worthy opponent and all that.Faye isn't just her employee or her friend. Faye is her assistant manager, the person she's supposed to be able to be trust beyond a shadow of a doubt, and she just slapped Dora's trust in the face.Now I sort of want to see Penny's reaction when she finds out Faye's been fired. There will be celebrations...
My prediction: Faye cleans up in a few days (comic time), asks for her job back, and of course gets her original job back but finds out Penny is the new asst. manager. Hilarity ensues.
I also like the magic colour changing bottle in the background.It's mood soap, the latest in novelty hygiene! Yellow for disappointed, blue for sad.
Now I sort of want to see Penny's reaction when she finds out Faye's been fired. There will be celebrations...
Well, shit.[...]
I'm not sure I want to watch this play out one-strip-a-day in real time. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a few weeks off and come back when there's a small backlog...
We are wathcing a drama unfolding in extremely slow motion from our point of view. This is not necessarily bad, as it gives time for us to think and discuss possible outcomes. But I agree, it is frustrating at times. However, it would be even more frustrating taking a few weeks off, knowing that something important might have happened in QC.
Not just Penny, either. Coffee of Doom's sales go through the roof as word spreads around town that "The mean one is gone!" Faye sobers up out of spite, enacts convoluted scheme to get hired back, hijinks ensue.
Coffee of Doom's sales go through the roof as word spreads around town that "The mean one is gone!"
Her firing might only be temporary, but it's at least there for a warning.
I hope that Marten is now setting-up folding chairs in their flat for an intervention.
Oh, FUCK YOU, Dora. What a stupid fucking thing to do.
Not firing Faye, extreme, but justified. I mean firing Faye NOW. It'd be one thing if she told Faye to go home and they'd talk in the morning, but firing her when she's drunk and hurting?
I don't think she would have been any less drunk or any less hurting the next morning. It would not have made an ounce of difference.She would've know she'd been caught, and acted accordingly. If that meant still drinking, then I'd stand by the firing. If that meant sobering up and getting a hold of herself, then Dora may have still fired her, but hopefully would talk to Faye about getting her help.
Prediction: Jeph will now alternate between horrible conflict scenes culminating in Dora firing Faye and sweet, sweet scenes of Marten and Claire having the BEST TIME EVER - just to mess with our heads! :psyduck:
If your friend says they want to be drunk all the time because they can't handle what they're going through, you go out of your way to help this friend. You do NOT ignore their problem and then get mad at them only when it begins to directly affect yourself.This is an understandable, humane and decent impulse. It's also exactly what alcoholism needs in order to thrive. Show me an alcoholic that went on drinking for years, and I'll show you someone with enablers trying misguidedly to help them. Dora's doing the right thing.
"Go home" is very different from "Get out".
I never said that you don't try to stop her from drinking. When I said 'Go out of your way to help them' I never said anything about enabling them. When I said 'Help', I meant hold an intervention. Keep them from drinking. Get them to seek a therapist (Again). Heck, they even got Faye to sober up for a while and see a therapist a while ago, back when she was going through different emotional issues. (I can't remember the exact context, but it happened.) My frustration here is that Faye is only showing anger, not sympathy, not concern, just a general pissed attitude that Faye is drunk.If your friend says they want to be drunk all the time because they can't handle what they're going through, you go out of your way to help this friend. You do NOT ignore their problem and then get mad at them only when it begins to directly affect yourself.This is an understandable, humane and decent impulse. It's also exactly what alcoholism needs in order to thrive. Show me an alcoholic that went on drinking for years, and I'll show you someone with enablers trying misguidedly to help them. Dora's doing the right thing.
Just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass, I went back and looked closely at the comics since Christmas. Literally everything we see Dora do to support and help Faye is tell her 'Alcohol isn't the solution, Faye.'What is with people in this thread seriously fucking blaming Dora, when clearly Faye is the one who made such a bad choice?
Furthermore, when she sees Faye drinking at work, there is absolutely no sympathy, concern, or worry in her expression. We see confusion, and then anger. That's it. Some friend.
Send her home, definitely. Tell her she can't come back in until she sobers up. Hold an intervention. Make sure everyone else knows what is going on so they can help. Don't just yell at your friend for a minute and tell them they're fired without another word.
I never said that you don't try to stop her from drinking. When I said 'Go out of your way to help them' I never said anything about enabling them.
And this is a small business, not a huge corporation that has resources to help people deal with alcoholism. One incident where Faye hurts someone because she's drunk and the business is basically over.That's a very good point. I can't remember when Dora last spoke of the CoD finances, but my general impression is that the business is juuuuust staying on the successful side of things. Wasn't it a humongous stress when the espresso machine broke? A drunk-ass employee in a place of responsibility could be a total catastrophe.
Just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass, I went back and looked closely at the comics since Christmas. Literally everything we see Dora do to support and help Faye is tell her 'Alcohol isn't the solution, Faye.'
Furthermore, when she sees Faye drinking at work, there is absolutely no sympathy, concern, or worry in her expression. We see confusion, and then anger. That's it. Some friend.
Unfortunately, addiction thrives on good intentions. Interventions and rehab programs frequently don't work for the simple reason that the subject isn't ready to change.
My frustration here is thatBecause heaven forfend that Dora shouldn't be angry that her assistant manager is hungover, trying to sneak a drink at work and lying to her. As an employer, specifically Faye's employer, Dora does have a right to expect a certain amount of professionalism from her employees and that's not what is happening here. I haven't seen any sign of Penny or Cosette or Hanners in the shop, so I'm assuming that Dora and Faye are opening up, which considering CoD's opening hours must be pretty early in the morning.Faye* Dora is only showing anger, not sympathy, not concern, just a general pissed attitude that Faye is drunk.
My frustration here is thatFaye* Dora is only showing anger, not sympathy, not concern, just a general pissed attitude that Faye is drunk.
For once, Dora isn't the bad guy here, it's Faye. And it's going to be Faye and Faye alone who decides if she wants help or not.
*I assume you originally meant Dora.
A question for those who know more about alcoholism than I do: can we really say with certainty that Faye is an alcoholic?
I thought Faye had been generally successful at drinking in moderation for quite some time after realizing that she'd been overdoing it. Now she's clearly on a horrendously unhealthy bender, but it's only been a few days since her breakup. I get that she's showing all the classic signs of alcoholism right now, but does a few days of such behavior demonstrate full-on addiction, or might it just be part of her being generally an emotional wreck this week?
A question for those who know more about alcoholism than I do: can we really say with certainty that Faye is an alcoholic?
I don't think she would have been any less drunk or any less hurting the next morning. It would not have made an ounce of difference.She would've know she'd been caught, and acted accordingly. If that meant still drinking, then I'd stand by the firing. If that meant sobering up and getting a hold of herself, then Dora may have still fired her, but hopefully would talk to Faye about getting her help.
Does anyone have any idea of how long in comic it's been since Faye and Angus split? I'm trying to figure it outs and I come up with 2, maybe 3 days top. Also, I'm wondering where on earth Angus is- has he just been written out completely? I feel like there is stuff unresolved in his side of the story arc. As far as Faye getting fired- it is justified, but I really don't see it sticking (although it should). Again, everything seems to be happening ridiculously fast in story.
Also, once again, it's not Dora's actions I'm mad at, it's her nonactiom. If she had sat down Faye and talked to her, been assured that everything was okay, and *then* all of this happened, it'd be fine. If Dora seemed reluctant to fire Faye but had to for legal reasons, it'd be fine. But as it stands, after being told by Faye that she intends to drink herself into oblivion, Dora did pretty much nothing. She didn't try and fail, she didn't try and get rejected, she just didn't *try*.
I predict major aftershocks of (misplaced) guilt from Dora. She may even cry on Marten's shoulder (somehow I don't see Tai in that role).
I predict major aftershocks of (misplaced) guilt from Dora. She may even cry on Marten's shoulder (somehow I don't see Tai in that role).
Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.
Dora has seen more than anyone else, though. Dora is the only one who heard Faye say (and I bring this up again) that she never wants to be sober, ever. Ignoring everything else we've seen, that one thing puts Faye squarely in the 'Really needs help' section.Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.
Something a lot of people routinely ignore: Dora is not privy to our knowledge. She is not seeing what we are seeing. What's obvious to us is not obvious to her, and even we get into arguments over what we've seen.
Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.
Also, once again, it's not Dora's actions I'm mad at, it's her nonactiom. If she had sat down Faye and talked to her, been assured that everything was okay, and *then* all of this happened, it'd be fine. If Dora seemed reluctant to fire Faye but had to for legal reasons, it'd be fine. But as it stands, after being told by Faye that she intends to drink herself into oblivion, Dora did pretty much nothing. She didn't try and fail, she didn't try and get rejected, she just didn't *try*.
The only reason why Faye is one of the best employees is by being best of the worse, not by any actual quality.
[...]and Dora putting Faye over her was probably an act of seniority and favoritism.
Notice how close The Pugnacious Peach already is to hitting bottom.
She's lost the job that was the center of her social life and which gave her a purpose and scope for growth. The job market is terrible where she lives (remember Momo's difficulties). It was not the drinking that did it, but she's lost the relationship she was depending on for healing.
What she has left is Marten, who might try to cover all the rent himself out of confusing martyrdom with friendship, but who probably can't afford to. And even Marten can be pushed too far.
EDIT: She doesn't even have a car to live in after losing the apartment.
[...]and Dora putting Faye over her was probably an act of seniority and favoritism.
So Dora is simultaneously the kind of person who would make the decision to immediately fire a friend without question for drinking when they know they're suffering after turning down a more competent employee out of pure favouritism?
Look, whilst I understand humans are creatures of contradiction, you have to understand just how hard I'm calling bullshit on this.
Warning - while you were typing a new coworker has appeared. Hide your bottle under your shirt before they notice.
Yes Dora. Your friend is obviously in need. Firing them is the best thing to do at the moment.
God damn it, Faye's consistently been established to be volatile but still one of her best damn employees. She also knows that this behaviour is uncharacteristic. I understand why she'd be pissed, but Jesus Christ this seems like the worst possible thing for Dora to have done.
In one fell swoop she's exacerbated her friend's suffering when they're already past breaking point and lost one of her best employees for an incident that, whilst it isn't exactly minor, was more deserving of disciplinary action than termination. It's just bad business.
Especially when customers come just for her service in particular.
Seriously. A massive pay dock and the loss of a few shifts for a while. There are levels between "Nothing/Coddling" and "Termination".
Immediately firing her would've been her firing her yesterday.
Firing her the next day when she's still drunk if not worse because she's now bringing booze into the work place, lying to her face about it, , after she gave her a promotion and everything which is now putting her business at stake? That is not without question
This is it. This is the comment that gets me to join.
You are confusing business with friendship.
So, why not just give her a few days off? Well, first off, that encourages Faye. [...]
Secondly more deserving of disciplinary action?. I'm sorry, what?!? Something that could have serious economic consequences for her store is only deserving of disciplinary action?
I do not wish for this to devolve into a flame war of any flavour.
One of the wiser things I've ever heard about dealing with addicts is "Don't jump in and try to save an anchor from drowning".
Proportionate measures are for normal healthy people screwing up. The Pugnacious Peach is looking less and less like such a person.
Immediately firing her would've been her firing her yesterday.
Firing her the next day when she's still drunk if not worse because she's now bringing booze into the work place, lying to her face about it, , after she gave her a promotion and everything which is now putting her business at stake? That is not without question
First: This is still the same day, in-strip time. It's later on in that same day. That's important.
Second: Yes. Absolutely. She made a poor decision to lie to her boss, whilst drunk, and then continued to drink. That's a horrible, terrible thing to do.
But a bigger hit to Dora's business is losing an otherwise good manager (one who has a loyal customer base and manages to keep the other employees well in check) in the heat of the moment. Her decision to punish Faye? Justified. Being sick of Faye's shit? Justified.
But the loss of a valued employee, and a manager at that, is now made up for in the overtime she needs to pay other people to make up for Faye's shifts, time investment in hiring a new employee, and time Dora herself has to spend since she was the only other manager. If Faye's actions haven't caused more damage, or will cause more damage, than her termination will, then the termination is a poor decision. Especially since it's not a repeat offense, it's a first-time incident of this type of behaviour.
So it's a bad business decision as well as a bad friend decision.
Warning - while you were typing 3 new bottles of bourbon appeared on the wall. Note them down, pass them around.
This is it. This is the comment that gets me to join.
I'll fight you all!QuoteYou are confusing business with friendship.
I just covered that now. Let's move on.QuoteSo, why not just give her a few days off? Well, first off, that encourages Faye. [...]
Ahh... No? No it doesn't. If his is her only source of income, giving her a week or two without shifts is a serious financial burden. Huge. Give Faye a taste of what termination would be like if she didn't get her shit together and know that Dora means business. It's not like a school suspension, especially since Faye is paid by the hour and not a set wage.
She should absolutely be punished severely. A permanent termination is a step too far.QuoteSecondly more deserving of disciplinary action?. I'm sorry, what?!? Something that could have serious economic consequences for her store is only deserving of disciplinary action?
Again, covered above. The severity of her punishment should scale with the permanency of her incompetence. It's the difference between rehabilitation and retribution. Retribution may feel more righteous, but guess which one ends up more effective long-term?
Alright, who else needs verbal fisticuffs? I'll take you all on, Hemmingway style.
But then again, a film set is nothing like a coffee shop.
But then again, a film set is nothing like a coffee shop.
Maybe not to you, but for Dora, CoD is more or less everything, right?
1. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2866 is Faye trying to get permission to drink
2. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2867 is Dora telling her not to drink at work
3. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2875 is Faye the next morning deciding to continue to drink
Also, it does not matter if she was a good manager before, it matters what she is doing right now.
Let's be honest here, barristers don't exactly have a hard barrier of entry.
Also, even if we went with your way, Dora would STILL have to work extra hours and reschedule everything because Faye would suddenly not be working for a few weeks.
Look, I don't know you, but my experiences with people who are alcoholics is this: if they want to drink, THEY WILL DRINK!
is not worth keeping a "valuable" employee if this behavior continues
Dealing with that burden is infinitely easier than dealing with an employee who refuses to listen.
Dale currently could fill that gap. That man would love getting extra hours in.
You are placing friendship at a level with Dora's business.
When a solution involves a scenario where Dora could lose her sole income, Dora is justified in placing the business above friendship.
Too many people jumping the gun about this comic.
Especially MrNumbers.
For one, nobody deserves a pass for showing up to work inebriated, even if friendship and seniority were factors. That's your entitlement talking. You know that in the real world if you were hired by anyone who took their shit seriously, you couldn't get away with any gross display of unprofessionalism no matter how isolated the incident.
Next, who said this was the end?
We haven't even gotten to day two. For all we know, Faye can be fired for all of a day or a week before she patches things up or Dora seeks her out to get all 'supportive friend' on her, then give her the brass tacks before offering her job back. These things happen all the time in fiction.
She's still fired, that much is certain, but how quickly she gets her job back is all in how quickly she makes it up to Dora. Either way, Dora's ass is covered morally and professionally because she's the one who was lied to, and she's the one who has to look out for the health of the business so that everyone can get paid.
*Snip!*
Name one thing Faye could have done whilst drunk that would have been more damaging to the business than Faye's irreparable termination, knowing Faye has a loyal customer base that come in just for her patented scorn and that her termination is almost a guaranteed drop in loyal, repeat customers?
QuoteName one thing Faye could have done whilst drunk that would have been more damaging to the business than Faye's irreparable termination, knowing Faye has a loyal customer base that come in just for her patented scorn and that her termination is almost a guaranteed drop in loyal, repeat customers?
This thing I've said, right here.
... why was I singled out, exactly. If she gets hired back in two weeks, it's just another version of what I was saying Dora should do.
Name one thing Faye could have done whilst drunk that would have been more damaging to the business than Faye's irreparable termination, knowing Faye has a loyal customer base that come in just for her patented scorn and that her termination is almost a guaranteed drop in loyal, repeat customers?
I'm going to go with a lot of things, like so many. It's a little thing called negligence, it's very costly for a business like, this business may not get to exist anymore costly. Especially for a small business like that.
Time out! You've been telling us how what she already did was wrong, not about what she should do next.
Seriously. A massive pay dock and the loss of a few shifts for a while. There are levels between "Nothing/Coddling" and "Termination".
And while I'm at it, your "palpable " sarcasm was not, I'm afraid. I'm yet to understand how your film set scenario does not apply here.
I would say that the business being sued out of orbit for negligence would be more harmful to the business than Faye being terminated. Or any person being harmed in any way through Faye's drunken antics.
... why was I singled out, exactly. If she gets hired back in two weeks, it's just another version of what I was saying Dora should do.It's not. What you're saying is that the punishment was too harsh and irreversible. What I'm saying is the complete inverse: a) she can be planning to give her the job back all along, but had to send a strong enough message to get through to her, a message that "Go home" or "You're suspended" could not, and b) even if she wasn't expecting an immediate turnaround from Faye, she is doing what any good boss would do in her situation by setting an irrevokable standard for her business and her employers. If anybody else is having a shit time, they will know not to go 'full Faye', and take it out on the job.
I would say that the business being sued out of orbit for negligence would be more harmful to the business than Faye being terminated. Or any person being harmed in any way through Faye's drunken antics.
We are talking about the same business that has threatened customers with a broadsword they keep under the counter at all times, right?
And do you forget, so soon, about the Malaysian Battle Spatula? http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=540
EDIT: Oh, yes, and there's also this http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1723
I'm with the numeric gentleman on this one. If Faye gets to come back once she's gotten her shit together, then she was never really fired.Yes, but Faye, right now, does not know she might be rehired. And that's why using the words "You're fired!" are better than "Take some time off and get your shit together." The shorter, direct firing has a sharper sting across the cheek that might help wake Faye up.
Name one thing Faye could have done whilst drunk that would have been more damaging to the business than Faye's irreparable termination, knowing Faye has a loyal customer base that come in just for her patented scorn and that her termination is almost a guaranteed drop in loyal, repeat customers?
I would say that the business being sued out of orbit for negligence would be more harmful to the business than Faye being terminated. Or any person being harmed in any way through Faye's drunken antics.
We are talking about the same business that has threatened customers with a broadsword they keep under the counter at all times, right?
And do you forget, so soon, about the Malaysian Battle Spatula? http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=540
EDIT: Oh, yes, and there's also this http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1723
oh, you mean those things that WERE NEVER USED TO HURT CUSTOMERS?
Quote... why was I singled out, exactly. If she gets hired back in two weeks, it's just another version of what I was saying Dora should do.It's not. What you're saying is that the punishment was too harsh and irreversible. What I'm saying is the complete inverse: a) she can be planning to give her the job back all along, but had to send a strong enough message to get through to her, a message that "Go home" or "You're suspended" could not, and b) even if she wasn't expecting an immediate turnaround from Faye, she is doing what any good boss would do in her situation by setting an irrevokable standard for her business and her employers. If anybody else is having a shit time, they will know not to go 'full Faye', and take it out on the job.
Name one thing Faye could have done whilst drunk that would have been more damaging to the business than Faye's irreparable termination, knowing Faye has a loyal customer base that come in just for her patented scorn and that her termination is almost a guaranteed drop in loyal, repeat customers?
Also, Faye has to realize that her friends/coworkers have breaking points. I don't get why people are jumping on Dora for not hearing Fayes cry for help, but people aren't jumping on Faye for pushing Dora too far.
Name one thing Faye could have done whilst drunk that would have been more damaging to the business than Faye's irreparable termination, knowing Faye has a loyal customer base that come in just for her patented scorn and that her termination is almost a guaranteed drop in loyal, repeat customers?
Spill hot coffee on a customer. A customer who sues. In court, it comes out that Faye was drunk and Dora knew it before it happened. Compensatory damages covering medical care, as well as the famed "pain and suffering." Punitive damages for knowingly allowing a drunk employee to handle scalding-hot liquids around customers. Because of that same gross negligence, Coffee of Doom's liability insurance won't pay any claims from the suit. In such a lawsuit, compensatory and punitive damages could EASILY surpass the point at which Dora would lose Coffee of Doom (and any other assets Dora has that are not protected by U.S. bankruptcy law). Everyone at Coffee of Doom is out of a job.
SJCrew, don't let it get personal.
MrNumbers, I thought about your question, and a possible answer is "starting a fire". She's done it before.
Come to think of it, a violent drunk around a broadsword and a Battle Spatula is a "recipe for unpleasantness", the kind of unpleasantness that can run to five figures in no time.
oh, you mean those things that WERE NEVER USED TO HURT CUSTOMERS?
It's not. What you're saying is that the punishment was too harsh and irreversible. What I'm saying is the complete inverse: a) she can be planning to give her the job back all along, but had to send a strong enough message to get through to her, a message that "Go home" or "You're suspended" could not, and b) even if she wasn't expecting an immediate turnaround from Faye, she is doing what any good boss would do in her situation by setting an irrevokable standard for her business and her employers. If anybody else is having a shit time, they will know not to go 'full Faye', and take it out on the job.
THANK YOU! The CoD do flagrantly abuse and insult their patrons, but they rarely go beyond that. They have hundreds of dangerous items lying around BUT THEY NEVER USED THEM AGAINST OTHER CUSTOMERS. Faye actually injuring a customer would be completely different than threats or snark.
Spill hot coffee on a customer. A customer who sues. In court, it comes out that Faye was drunk and Dora knew it before it happened. Compensatory damages covering medical care, as well as the famed "pain and suffering." Punitive damages for knowingly allowing a drunk employee to handle scalding-hot liquids around customers. Because of that same gross negligence, Coffee of Doom's liability insurance won't pay any claims from the suit. In such a lawsuit, compensatory and punitive damages could EASILY surpass the point at which Dora would lose Coffee of Doom (and any other assets Dora has that are not protected by U.S. bankruptcy law). Everyone at Coffee of Doom is out of a job.
[link=topic=30386.msg1294971#msg1294971 date=1421737265]
Another hypothetical disaster would be if Faye mishandled food and someone got sick. The disaster would come when the health department came in for an inspection. Between the spiders in the basement and the science project in the carafe (strip 729) CoD would get closed the same day.
Suppose a customer with a severe nut allergy who makes that clear when ordering asks for a nonfat skim mocha and drunk!Faye makes it with Almond milk and adds a dash of hazelnut syrup to it? Someone dying would definitely be a buzzkill for the cafe and Dora would be lucky to escape with her ass intact, especially if it were to come out that Faye had been warned before and Dora let things stand.
... I want to see this strip now.
On your point about CoD being sued because there are weapons present on premise... As far as I remember, the weapons are never used to threaten someone who isn't a friend. Even if that isn't the case, there is a difference between threatening someone with a weapon in a clearly sarcastic way, and hurting someone with a weapon.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1123 - She already sort of did that, though Angus did not mention that he was lactose-intolerant prior to her making that particular drink (though unless he got his coffee black every day - which perhaps he did, since he would just throw it out - Angus likely would have asked for non-dairy creamers in his beverages, which he always ordered from Faye...)
Mr Numbers, out of curiosity, why is it so important to you that Faye not be fired?
Especially, as numerous people have pointed out, Faye could be rehired when she gets her shit back together. At this point it almost seems like a semantics argument; "It would be just like Faye was fired, but without Dora having to say the word fired!"
there is a difference between threatening someone with a weapon in a clearly sarcastic way
I am amused by all the emotion this stirred up. I don't know why.
I hear you on that, but causing someone to get the runs is not on the level of causing someone to go into anaphylactic shock.
See, that's what I feel is weird. If you state this is poor business decision I'm going to have to vehemently disagree.
Mr Numbers, out of curiosity, why is it so important to you that Faye not be fired?
He's answered that himself, but I'd like to add the insight that there are plenty of people who've been seriously hurt by hip-shooting overreaction in real life, and Dora pushes their buttons.
I just feel that there are so many good reasons why Dora firing Faye was the right course; many of which have already been stated in this thread, but whatever, sure I'll rehash them for you:
Honestly, if I were in Fayes position, I would rather be fired than publicly shamed. "yeah, you can stay, but we are going to take your position and some of your salary away from you!"
That might just be me, though.
no. I don't agree.QuoteHonestly, if I were in Fayes position, I would rather be fired than publicly shamed. "yeah, you can stay, but we are going to take your position and some of your salary away from you!"
That might just be me, though.
Which means that you agree that the punishment would be sufficiently severe.
There are some things in a professional environment that warrant immediate termination. Showing up drunk or high, stealing, sexually or physically assaulting someone, etc... I don't get why this is so shocking to some people on this forum.
See, that's what I feel is weird. If you state this is poor business decision I'm going to have to vehemently disagree.
You don't have to put Faye through a detox program. You don't have to spend any money. Hell, cutting her salary but keeping the same level of competent employee, since they have that incident hanging over their head, is tantamount to a bargain, with faint undertones of blackmail...
If Faye ever, ever, did this again, I'd be completely agreeing with you. But a lone incident should not a years-long career inherently break.
EDIT:
Let's put this in the context of being caught drink-driving, a situation which very realistically gets people killed.
Here in Australia a drink-driving offense has an immediate 250 dollar fine, $500 dollars maximum if the court finds you off, for a first offense. You also get five demerit points: About the same as going 35 kilometers - about 20 miles - over the speed limit.
You need to lose 12 in a three year period before you lose your license.
*Snip*
Well, things just got real. As a boss, I think Dora did the right thing. It also illustrates that being boss is difficult to combine with being friends. And to anyone thinking that Dora should have cut Faye slack because she's a friend, I'd point out that the obligations of friendship cut both ways. It is not honouring friendship to turn up to work drunk at a business owned by your friend.
It is not honouring friendship to turn up to work drunk at a business owned by your friend.
Dora did not make a mistake (necessarily) by firing Faye. Her mistake was not doing anything before firing Faye. It is not Dora's responsibility to take care of Faye, but if they really are friends then she should have at least tried something during Faye's spiral towards oblivion before it got to this point.I reiterate the fact that, for years, all of Faye's friends have helped. And helped. And helped.
It is not honouring friendship to turn up to work drunk at a business owned by your friend.Dora did not make a mistake (necessarily) by firing Faye. Her mistake was not doing anything before firing Faye. It is not Dora's responsibility to take care of Faye, but if they really are friends then she should have at least tried something during Faye's spiral towards oblivion before it got to this point.I reiterate the fact that, for years, all of Faye's friends have helped. And helped. And helped.
The sum total of all of this help has been... ?
Dora was justified as a boss in firing Faye, but a horrible friend in not doing anything else.
She may be hurting, but she hasn't shown it.
*Snip*!
Come to think of it, a violent drunk around a broadsword and a Battle Spatula is a "recipe for unpleasantness", the kind of unpleasantness that can run to five figures in no time.Five figures? More like seven or eight. If CoD is a sole proprietorship, rather than an LLC or similar, Dora will be paying for that the rest of her life, and only get enough money to barely survive in extreme poverty (unless she starts working for someone under the table).
Reading these last few strips, I get the feeling that Faye's father's reason for killing himself was deeply connected to alcoholism. I think about the fact that he snuck bourbon into his milkshakes without telling his wife, who did not allow to drink, and that his sudden suicide came as a complete shock to his daughters. Maybe he was in deep alcoholic trouble, but was able to hide it very well, and ended his life when he couldn't take it anymore. That would fit quite well with how Faye is acting presently - and the predilection for substance abuse is often hereditary. Does this look right to you guys?Makes a lot of sense to me.
Quote from: MrNumbers... I want to see this strip now.
Oh my, the possibilities. SWAT team standoff, Bianchi parents trying to calm her down with baked goods, Pintsize contributing to the crisis ...
And at this point, I'm not going to count it if she realizes later and feels like crap about it: She's done that every time she makes a mistake.Because she's human. Or a well-written fictional portrayal of one, anyhow. It's part of the game.
There is a bit of humor in the fact that Dora is dating the person who regularly went in to work tripping balls.
You've laid down your terms and conditions, and they have to act, knowing there will be repercussions if they don't.They already had a discussion about alcohol at work the day before, and Dora made it clear that that was not an option. So that point was already past.
S/S Claireten might suffer through this. Marten can try to explain the situation to Claire, but it might feed Claire's insecurities and lead to a breakup. Still, I guess Marten will do everything he can to try to help Faye.
4 - It's been mentioned by someone, but not picked up, that Faye could now see herself free to follow Angus, if he is willing to take her back. As the immediate cause of her resumption of drinking is the separation, that would give her the opportunity to get back in control without the same level of temptation. Whether such a decision would lead to her being on the bus permanently would be up to Jeph, of course; but it would give more space for Marten's relationship with Claire to develop, and help stem the perpetual increase in the number of characters that slows the story down more and more.
Also, I do think its funny that people treat what Tai did as much less offensive, just because its "party" drugs. Faye was drunk, but still obviously coherent enough that Dora didn't notice until she actually saw her with the bottle. Tai was literally seeing the employees she was supposed to manage as firebreathing dragons.
My personal take on this is that Faye put Dora in a position where all Dora's options were bad ones.
And let me emphasize: Faye put Dora in that position. It's not like Dora was looking for an excuse to fire Faye. This is a direct result of Faye's actions. Dora had to respond, and she had no good options, so criticizing her for not finding one is absurd. Dora did what she had to do. She's probably no happier about it than any of us are.
A difference between Tai being stoned and Faye being drunk is that Tai is the boss and has basically free reign at the library, where Faye was told directly the day before that being drunk at work is not acceptable. Tai doesn't go around hiding being impaired the way Faye has been either. I'm not saying Tai is any better for this. No matter what, being drunk or high at work is very irresponsible. The issue is that Faye broke the rules, and one of the big ones.
Tai's drug use seems to be the "I go to a liberal arts school and party all the time" type, not as much trying to escape from mental issues. Then again, maybe it is.
A difference between Tai being stoned and Faye being drunk is that Tai is the boss and has basically free reign at the library, where Faye was told directly the day before that being drunk at work is not acceptable. Tai doesn't go around hiding being impaired the way Faye has been either. I'm not saying Tai is any better for this. No matter what, being drunk or high at work is very irresponsible. The issue is that Faye broke the rules, and one of the big ones.
Note, I'm not saying Faye being drunk at work is excusable from an employment standpoint. I'm saying that everyone is now convinced that Faye is an alcoholic because she shows up drunk for work one time.
Note, I'm not saying Faye being drunk at work is excusable from an employment standpoint. I'm saying that everyone is now convinced that Faye is an alcoholic because she shows up drunk for work one time.
Tomorrow may be filler though because jetlag lol
Jeph's chirperQuoteTomorrow may be filler though because jetlag lol
Ahhhh!
I can't believe you guys are talking about Dora firing Faye when the really important thing in this comic is obviously the pulsating orange-blue soap dispenser. :-P
Well, it is a seven-hour flight followed up by how long a car journey back to town? I wouldn't feel like drawing any strips either!
@bhtooefr,
Actually, I can see Claire being defensive of Marten and getting into an argument with Faye about how her behaviour is hurting him. This would come as a cold slap in the face for Faye who, like many in her situation, isn't likely to consider the affects of her behaviour on others until it is literally rubbed in her face.
It's even money if this would make her turn around or if it would be another personal fault in the increasingly long list that makes her question the value of her continued existence.
Actually, I see it going a different way. I think Faye would lash out at Claire, Marten immediately backs up his girlfriend, Faye loses another friend, and discovers that you can still dig yourself deeper after you hit rock bottom if you try hard enough.
Faye has done what Faye does: duck relationships and drink to dull the pain.
Dora has done what Dora does: angry knee-jerk reaction.
It remains to be seen if Marten will do what Marten does (support Faye unconditionally).
Tai and Claire are unknown quantities in this sort of issue, but if they don't end up being involved, I'll be disappointed.
Good stuff, storytelling-wise.
Actually, I see it going a different way. I think Faye would lash out at Claire, Marten immediately backs up his girlfriend, Faye loses another friend, and discovers that you can still dig yourself deeper after you hit rock bottom if you try hard enough.
I would think Marten usually keeps cool, and wouldn't back up either side in this case. I seem to remember that it wouldn't be the first time.
Jeph's chirperQuoteTomorrow may be filler though because jetlag lol
Ahhhh!
It's true that he's been the super-passive spineless wimp in the past
@Tea: I don't think anyone is saying that Dora is never a bitch, just she's right this time.
I really like the suggestion about moving to the space station.Well, his ability to talk at any time may be dependent on whether or not he's burnt-out any processor banks watching butterflies lately. (M-x butterfly FTW)
Station has proven he can out-perform the most expensive human therapists. Someone immortal who is always available to talk would be a balm for Faye's abandonment issues.
Fair enough! I am just getting to the point where I feel like I can't stand her bitchiness any more. I hope someone points it out to her so that she can finally grow up and stop burning bridges for little or no reason.
Sometime lurker, first-time poster here.
Let me begin by saying I think Dora's actions in this specific, isolated case are pretty reasonable. Caught her employee drinking on the job, fires her.
However, honestly, this newest strip really cements my dislike of Dora's character, which was sparked a long time ago when she wouldn't stop whining about how TERRIBLE her childhood was because...she had a successful, smart, good-looking older brother. That's her big claim to having had struggles of any kind, and yet she has the audacity to judge Faye, whose father literally shot himself right in front of her. Seriously, what kind of sister not only can't even be happy for her older brother's success, but actually twists it in her mind to being a personal problem to deal with? She completely cut her brother out of her life for...what again? Sleeping around? How is that any of her business to judge him on, and how does it affect her in literally any way? Seems like a form of slut-shaming to me. If he wants to sleep around, let him.
Fair enough! I am just getting to the point where I feel like I can't stand her bitchiness any more. I hope someone points it out to her so that she can finally grow up and stop burning bridges for little or no reason.
Someone has (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2171), but I don't think it really took.
Honestly, you don't have to have trauma in your past to have issues. Dora's allowed to have issues too.
Honestly, you don't have to have trauma in your past to have issues. Dora's allowed to have issues too.
She's allowed to have issues, just as I am allowed to dislike her for treating people with much worse issues like crap because she has no idea what it's like.
Honestly, you don't have to have trauma in your past to have issues. Dora's allowed to have issues too.
She's allowed to have issues, just as I am allowed to dislike her for treating people with much worse issues like crap because she has no idea what it's like.
Honestly, you don't have to have trauma in your past to have issues. Dora's allowed to have issues too.
She's allowed to have issues, just as I am allowed to dislike her for treating people with much worse issues like crap because she has no idea what it's like.
American employment laws are the worst, no HR no tribunal...
Be rude and threaten customers? Totally fine. Show up drunk even though it's not visibly affecting performance in any serious way? Fuckin' fired.
Be rude and threaten customers? Totally fine. Show up drunk even though it's not visibly affecting performance in any serious way? Fuckin' fired.
Be rude and threaten customers? Totally fine. Show up drunk even though it's not visibly affecting performance in any serious way? Fuckin' fired.
- Any relevant provisions in the employment agreement must be followed
- An employee has the right to be told what the problem is and that disciplinary action is a possibility.
- The employee should be advised that they have the right to have a representative present at a disciplinary meeting.
- The employee must then be given a genuine opportunity to respond with their side of the story before the employer decides what to do.
- The employer should investigate any allegations of misconduct thoroughly and in a manner that is impartial and without being influenced by irrelevant issues.
- Generally speaking, the employee should be given clear standards to aim for and a genuine opportunity to improve. However, some forms of misconduct may be deemed so serious, that it can warrant instant dismissal. What constitutes this sort of misconduct may be set out in the employment agreement.
http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1297 (http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1297)
What makes me twitch about this comic is not whether or not Dora made the right decision. My feeling is probably. What I don't like is the out of hand "you're fired". In NZ (and Australlia, I'm sure) we do not have the right to fire people whenever we feel like it, and while intoxication may be cause for immediate termination you would still have to have a sit down meeting and a discussion with paperwork.Quote
- Any relevant provisions in the employment agreement must be followed
- An employee has the right to be told what the problem is and that disciplinary action is a possibility.
- The employee should be advised that they have the right to have a representative present at a disciplinary meeting.
- The employee must then be given a genuine opportunity to respond with their side of the story before the employer decides what to do.
- The employer should investigate any allegations of misconduct thoroughly and in a manner that is impartial and without being influenced by irrelevant issues.
- Generally speaking, the employee should be given clear standards to aim for and a genuine opportunity to improve. However, some forms of misconduct may be deemed so serious, that it can warrant instant dismissal. What constitutes this sort of misconduct may be set out in the employment agreement.
http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1297 (http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1297)
I absolutely despise the casual manner by which Dora was able to fire Faye, and that it doesn't raise any eyebrows. Especially since it seems the QC-verse has the same situation as the modern day US with no real public healthcare and likely limited unemployment benefits.
It makes my skin crawl, frankly, and makes me sad that in a generally more liberal imagining of the US you're still completely at the mercy of your employer. (Whether or not Faye deserves to lose her job it utterly irrelevant this point.)
Edit to fix random tags.
What makes me twitch about this comic is not whether or not Dora made the right decision. My feeling is probably. What I don't like is the out of hand "you're fired". In NZ (and Australlia, I'm sure) we do not have the right to fire people whenever we feel like it, and while intoxication may be cause for immediate termination you would still have to have a sit down meeting and a discussion with paperwork.
Is that not the case here? Can Dora reasonably expect to have a meeting with Faye if she's drunk?Quote
- Generally speaking, the employee should be given clear standards to aim for and a genuine opportunity to improve. However, some forms of misconduct may be deemed so serious, that it can warrant instant dismissal. What constitutes this sort of misconduct may be set out in the employment agreement.
It does come off a bit like George Jetson Job Security, and I can confirm that it's more or less the same in Australia, with sit-down meetings, warnings, notice, and all that. However, employers do have ways around that, and can immediately fire people/make them redundant. Granted, there's usually a sit-down meeting, but...well, is Faye in any condition for that?
What makes me twitch about this comic is not whether or not Dora made the right decision. My feeling is probably. What I don't like is the out of hand "you're fired". In NZ (and Australlia, I'm sure) we do not have the right to fire people whenever we feel like it, and while intoxication may be cause for immediate termination you would still have to have a sit down meeting and a discussion with paperwork.Quote
- Any relevant provisions in the employment agreement must be followed
- An employee has the right to be told what the problem is and that disciplinary action is a possibility.
- The employee should be advised that they have the right to have a representative present at a disciplinary meeting.
- The employee must then be given a genuine opportunity to respond with their side of the story before the employer decides what to do.
- The employer should investigate any allegations of misconduct thoroughly and in a manner that is impartial and without being influenced by irrelevant issues.
- Generally speaking, the employee should be given clear standards to aim for and a genuine opportunity to improve. However, some forms of misconduct may be deemed so serious, that it can warrant instant dismissal. What constitutes this sort of misconduct may be set out in the employment agreement.
http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1297 (http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/knowledgebase/item/1297)
I absolutely despise the casual manner by which Dora was able to fire Faye, and that it doesn't raise any eyebrows. Especially since it seems the QC-verse has the same situation as the modern day US with no real public healthcare and likely limited unemployment benefits.
It makes my skin crawl, frankly, and makes me sad that in a generally more liberal imagining of the US you're still completely at the mercy of your employer. (Whether or not Faye deserves to lose her job it utterly irrelevant this point.)
Edit to fix random tags.
I absolutely despise the casual manner by which Dora was able to fire Faye, and that it doesn't raise any eyebrows. Especially since it seems the QC-verse has the same situation as the modern day US with no real public healthcare and likely limited unemployment benefits.
It makes my skin crawl, frankly, and makes me sad that in a generally more liberal imagining of the US you're still completely at the mercy of your employer. (Whether or not Faye deserves to lose her job it utterly irrelevant this point.)
Edit to fix random tags.
Regarding Dora's issues, one that may be lurking in the background is her bisexuality. No matter how supportive her parents might have been, or the other people in her life, there's a very good chance Dora has faced prejudice about it at some point. Especially if she came out in high school. We already know that she wasn't one of the "cool kids," and some people might have been even more inclined to avoid her or mistreat her if they knew she wasn't straight.
As far as Faye getting help goes I'll be the odd man out and predict it will come either from May or Marigold. Given that she's an outsider May might have a more unbiased perspective than the others.
Hey, come on, Jeph's been on a plane all day. So what if he just slapped a new head on Cosette's body and called it Joyce? The guy's tired.
Kind of an interesting theory about Dora. Maybe she's quick to the draw at breaking friendships, relationships, etc because she's been hurt by people she trusted and confided in.
Hey, come on, Jeph's been on a plane all day. So what if he just slapped a new head on Cosette's body and called it Joyce? The guy's tired.
He actually drew it seven months ago: http://jephjacques.com/post/87646817720/drawings-from-tonights-patreon-launch-party
He drew a better Joyce shortly beforehand: http://jephjacques.com/post/86250436045/i-drew-a-joyce-while-playing-with-watercolor
And one with Claire and Carla later on: http://jephjacques.com/post/98928768545/i-did-a-drawingKind of an interesting theory about Dora. Maybe she's quick to the draw at breaking friendships, relationships, etc because she's been hurt by people she trusted and confided in.
We know that, that's why she dumped Marten and is (was?) in therapy.Sven pretty much confirmed that it's all from previous abusive relationships. But I doubt that's got anything to do with this. She's just straight up pissed at Faye for, well, being pissed.
Hey, come on, Jeph's been on a plane all day. So what if he just slapped a new head on Cosette's body and called it Joyce? The guy's tired.
He actually drew it seven months ago: http://jephjacques.com/post/87646817720/drawings-from-tonights-patreon-launch-party
He drew a better Joyce shortly beforehand: http://jephjacques.com/post/86250436045/i-drew-a-joyce-while-playing-with-watercolor
And one with Claire and Carla later on: http://jephjacques.com/post/98928768545/i-did-a-drawingKind of an interesting theory about Dora. Maybe she's quick to the draw at breaking friendships, relationships, etc because she's been hurt by people she trusted and confided in.
We know that, that's why she dumped Marten and is (was?) in therapy.Sven pretty much confirmed that it's all from previous abusive relationships. But I doubt that's got anything to do with this. She's just straight up pissed at Faye for, well, being pissed.
Yeah this was a different thing altogether. This was anger felt when you feel someone threatening whatever you happen to hold most dear, CoD in Dora's case, which of course is her livelihood and independence.
Faye has almost hit bottom before (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=729).
I don't think I've ever seen Marten actually get upset over having to explain Veronica.
I don't think I've ever seen Marten actually get upset over having to explain Veronica. It's old and worn terrority that he doesn't care to revisit, but it's not otherwise upsetting to him.
He's trying to chat up a pretty girl. She's more interested in his mother's career as a professional dominatrix to the point that is all she wants to talk about. Do you really think he would be interested in continuing the conversation?
Anyway, I'm thinking that you're maybe taking a light-hearted post a little too seriously?
DSL: makes sense, though it seems to me the problem lies more with Dora than with Sven in this case.
There is no such thing as 'two conflicting things are right'.
Let us establish the Axiom that there is nothing more important than friendship.Uh, why would we want to do that? It's clearly nonsense. Sure, "nothing is true" if the only thing you examine for truth-value is sweeping statements like that.
QuoteLet us establish the Axiom that there is nothing more important than friendship.Uh, why would we want to do that?
Faye is being fired for misconduct, or fired "with cause" as opposed to being laid off/let go by a company that is downsizing. As far as I understand if you are fired "with cause" you don't get any severance package, you forfeited it when you broke your employment contract. If you are fired "without cause" the company should include vacation days and other compensation as part of the severance package, as they are the ones breaking the employment contract.
Faye might be eligible for unemployment?
Yeah, that's what I meant. I was just wondering why Dora would do that - it wouldn't be that much harder to terminate Faye's employment properly, that would make her eligible for unemployment benefits, she would pay the vacation days and she can be sure that Faye won't sue her or anything since Faye knows the alternative is having none of that.
Not only that, but it's generally considered best practice for employers to not say anything about an employee's performance, only that they did work there. Otherwise, they're opened up to a lawsuit.
"feel bad yes, feel guilty no. Her friend is in trouble and that's a bad thing, and yes, if Dora cares about her then she will feel accordingly.That feeling of "this is a shitty situation and I wish I didn't have to fire Faye" is the relevant motivator, and I have no issue with that causing her to give more thought to the situation. But when I say guilt, I mean this:
But any feelings of "I shouldn't have done that" or "I'm a bad person because I did that", she doesn't deserve, she should know that she doesn't, and stand by her decision against anyone, including the little voices in her head.(Assuming that in hindsight the reasons for firing Faye look sound to her, and according to her best judgement that decision remains the correct one.)
Guilt is not a bad thing, in itself. I guess. It would be weird if most of humanity was wired for a pathological response.We are. For more than one. The human brain is a horrible kludge. I'm sorry.
Not only that, but it's generally considered best practice for employers to not say anything about an employee's performance, only that they did work there. Otherwise, they're opened up to a lawsuit.
Not only that, but it's generally considered best practice for employers to not say anything about an employee's performance, only that they did work there. Otherwise, they're opened up to a lawsuit.
Not technically true. Employers are free to say whatever they'd like to someone calling for a reference, they just need to have documents to back it up. I've given several people extremely shitty references, with very specific examples of their shitty behavior. However, before I did so, I made sure that I had signed disciplinary documents to prove it. If you say something bad about someone and can't prove it, then you could be sued.
Weird thing to post about, I know. This thread just has me feeling that managerial feel.
For the most part, when I'd terminate I'd give vague, lukewarm-positive responses to any questions other employers asked me because I didn't see the point in screwing them out of another job. I'd just never tell them whether we terminated or they did.
Except when they'd get fired for something so beyond the pale, and then have the audacity to file for wrongful termination with the state (which happened twice, with two different employees). Then I'd get out the employee file and had fun.
RF: I don't really wanna dig more into the unseemly things you're doing to words like "axiom" and "truth", so let's get back to the actual situation we were discussing, and see if we disagree about anything of substance.Don't go casting aspersions on the way I use words. Either point out what is wrong, in your opinion, or keep it civil. Calling my use "unseemly" isn't civil. If you feel I've impugned upon you honor or something, come out with it or call a mod.
(Assuming that in hindsight the reasons for firing Faye look sound to her, and according to her best judgement that decision remains the correct one.)
Whether or not we'd agree to define the word guilt this way, are we in disagreement about my actual meaning here?
QuoteGuilt is not a bad thing, in itself. I guess. It would be weird if most of humanity was wired for a pathological response.We are. For more than one. The human brain is a horrible kludge. I'm sorry.
Except when they'd get fired for something so beyond the pale, and then have the audacity to file for wrongful termination with the state (which happened twice, with two different employees). Then I'd get out the employee file and had fun.
Except when they'd get fired for something so beyond the pale, and then have the audacity to file for wrongful termination with the state (which happened twice, with two different employees). Then I'd get out the employee file and had fun.
Places I have worked, even if we had the documentation to prove it, we weren't allowed to give reason or explanation. You may have been able to back it up but the former employee could still file a lawsuit and that would mean money being spent fighting it.
Just to mention, there appears to be an issue with the website.
Starting on the home page: http://questionablecontent.net/
Click on the previous link you get Comic 2878. It doesn't go back to 2879.
From 2879, click on the next link and you just get a reload.
if this has been reported previously, please excuse me but I don;t see a mention of it.
thanks
-drmike
A nice visit from the Walky-verse
I really don't want a timeskip. I'm just philosophically opposed, I could see the therapist coming back. We haven't seen her for a while and this is the kind of issue their supposed to help with
I must disagree there, sorry - I don't think messing up chances with future employers and cutting off her money so that she can't make rent is 'helping' in any way. Why would you want her to hit rock bottom instead of assuming getting fired is hitting rock bottom while still making sure she can pay her therapist?
Alternative possibility: Dora talks it over with Tai, Tai talks it over with management (who she likely has blackmail of because she's Tai like that), Marten gets a temporary raise so that he can shoulder the rent and be in charge of money for the home, giving him the tools to cut Faye off (to a degree). Boss Dora is keeping her workplace safe, Friend Dora isn't abandoning Faye, Faye is forced to sober up and confront her problems, the new assertiveness Marten's beginning to develop can be tested and utilized, and Tai continues to be a boss.Or Claire takes this opportunity to fly the nest, and moves in while Faye crashes on the couch. Or Pintsize gets a job (comedy gold possibilities there).
Anyone have that Christmas picture? I miss it.
Kosher? No, that's the Hanukkah picture.Anyone have that Christmas picture? I miss it.
I have it, not sure if it's kosher to post it. Mods?
Kosher? No, that's the Hanukkah picture.Anyone have that Christmas picture? I miss it.
I have it, not sure if it's kosher to post it. Mods?
I don't see why not.Anyone have that Christmas picture? I miss it.
I have it, not sure if it's kosher to post it. Mods?
With Alice Grove slowly taking off... I wonder how far we are from QC's end o_O
So, how many more ways can Faye fuck up this week?How many things does Faye have, and how many friends does she still have? That many ways.
:facepalm:
I thought Dora encouraged insubordination.
I thought Dora encouraged insubordination.
Good point, that. Go back over the entirety of the strip and Dora definitely has set the tone in the shop that might have allowed Faye to think this is OK. Though she's gone "hell-boss" -- at least in Faye's opinion -- before, Dora's strategic mistake was to let things ride, even contribute to the situation, before allowing things to build to the point where she's looking for an excuse, any excuse, to push the button. I've been on both ends of this (reflecting no credit on myself, believe me) and it's not fun to watch it happen, either from the outside or in.
I think that Dora does encourage witty banter and discussion about assignments, insubordination not so muchI thought Dora encouraged insubordination.
Good point, that. Go back over the entirety of the strip and Dora definitely has set the tone in the shop that might have allowed Faye to think this is OK. Though she's gone "hell-boss" -- at least in Faye's opinion -- before, Dora's strategic mistake was to let things ride, even contribute to the situation, before allowing things to build to the point where she's looking for an excuse, any excuse, to push the button. I've been on both ends of this (reflecting no credit on myself, believe me) and it's not fun to watch it happen, either from the outside or in.
Oh ####.
I predict Faye will now gravitate towards Sven, as he might be both a place of temporary comfort and in her mind a way to get back at Dora.So instead of a Svenectomy I get a Svenpocolypse?!
We're gonna see more and worse destructive behavior before this gets any better.
This is huge. Rather than leaving with the impression of just being fired for drinking, Faye can now portray Dora as having flipped out on her and being out of touch with reality. I totally agree with Natswash that Faye can and probably will tell her friends she quit instead of being fired. More importantly, Faye can now use this angle to poison Marten/everyone else against Dora and avoid admitting the real reason for her dismissal.
I thought Dora encouraged insubordination.
This is huge. Rather than leaving with the impression of just being fired for drinking, Faye can now portray Dora as having flipped out on her and being out of touch with reality. I totally agree with Natswash that Faye can and probably will tell her friends she quit instead of being fired. More importantly, Faye can now use this angle to poison Marten/everyone else against Dora and avoid admitting the real reason for her dismissal.
Except Marten's reaction will most likely be to talk to Dora. The other employees at the coffee shop are going to hear Dora's side first, and most likely agree with her. I predict Hanners is going to be a nervous wreck after this though.
You should feel bad about things you must do, when they suck. Seriously. Who says, "I had to put the dog down, but it was time so I refuse to feel bad about it"? Really creep people, IMO. Healthy is, "This hurts, and I feel guilty, but I know it's the right thing to do."
I thought Dora encouraged insubordination.I've found that smaller companies and businesses tend to develop a sort of friendly insubordination just by the nature of their size. It's natural, because everyone knows each other or at least they know a fair bit of each other.
Call me creepy all you want, but I have never felt guilt about making the call to put him down.Agreed. I would've felt bad if I weren't in the room with him, but I'll never feel guilty about putting my old dog down a few years ago. That's not to say it wasn't difficult, and I certainly was sad, but never guilty.
Who was it that said this could be Claire's chance to leave the nest while Faye couch surfs? Because as much as I would privately be heartwarmed, it's not likely they've been dating for what? Two/three days? A week tops?
Considering their past relationship, I don't see Dora or Tai moving into an apartment with Marten. Either one of them would probably cause stress between Marten and Dora, and Faye with everyone (more than is going to be caused as is anyway).
As it is... Faye isn't in the right here, but Dora still lost likeability.
My old beagle, I don't feel bad about putting down at all. When we pulled the injection, the dog had been diabetic and blind for over a year. Three days before, he had a stroke that left him in a state where we had to guide him to his supper bowl because he could not find it on his own. Sure, it sucks that I lost a dog I loved, but I honestly believe that the stroke killed the dog and all we had put down was the empty shell. Call me creepy all you want, but I have never felt guilt about making the call to put him down.
Agreed. I would've felt bad if I weren't in the room with him, but I'll never feel guilty about putting my old dog down a few years ago. That's not to say it wasn't difficult, and I certainly was sad, but never guilty.
I doubt we'll see anyone else move in or Faye move out permanently. I suspect Veronica will be most likely to chip in with the rent until Faye gets back on her feet. She's the most well-off of the cast (other than Hanners), she's openly scoffed at the cost of rent in the area and she'd be helping out her son.
I believe they meant Veronica covering Faye's half of the rent, not moving in. That's something neither of them would want to do.
April would be able to confirm this, but I believe that the previous week, in-comic, has lasted three or four months IRL. Of course, I'm sure we've all had weeks where so much has happened that it has ended up feeling like three or four months! :-P
If you didn't feel bad, um... Okay. I'm not getting the impression that that's the message, so I don't see the point. Care to elucidate?I can only speak for myself, but if I hadn't convinced myself it was the right thing to do (which it was), I would've been consumed with grief. Like I said, I was very sad, but I didn't feel at fault.
My favorite memory of him will always be the milkshakes. We'd go down to the ice cream parlor and get vanilla milkshakes, and he'd pour a little bourbon in his. He wasn't an alcoholic or anything. I mean he'd have like the one milkshake with bourbon in it a week and that was it, but mom was raised Baptist and didn't want him drinkin' at all. It was our little secret.
QuoteMy favorite memory of him will always be the milkshakes. We'd go down to the ice cream parlor and get vanilla milkshakes, and he'd pour a little bourbon in his. He wasn't an alcoholic or anything. I mean he'd have like the one milkshake with bourbon in it a week and that was it, but mom was raised Baptist and didn't want him drinkin' at all. It was our little secret.
I originally took this at face value, but I have become sceptical...
But like many people who have developed problems, Faye cant see it. I foresee that she has yet to hit rock bottom....
My problem wasn't just that Dora didn't tell her to get help, but either way that's an unfair comparison.As it is... Faye isn't in the right here, but Dora still lost likeability.
... I guess, but anyone who is holding Dora to that standard, but not Marten.... is kinda holding a double standard.
My problem wasn't just that Dora didn't tell her to get help, but either way that's an unfair comparison.As it is... Faye isn't in the right here, but Dora still lost likeability.
... I guess, but anyone who is holding Dora to that standard, but not Marten.... is kinda holding a double standard.
Dora has known Faye for longer, for one. She also spends far more time with Faye than Marten does, and unlike Marten, Dora has been directly told by Faye that she wants to drink herself into oblivion. As far as we've seen, Marten has only observed Faye drinking earlier in the day than usual. Dora has far more information about the situation that Marten does. And, after catching Faye drinking on the job, (Which should come as no surprise after Faye said she wanted to be drunk on the job the day before, came in reeking of booze, happy, and had no hangover,) Dora didn't seem concerned or sympathetic in the slightest, just angry.
So yes, I hold Dora to a different standard then Marten, because Marten is far more ignorant of the situation and hasn't reacted with pure anger to his best friend hitting rock bottom.
Dora was a massive control freak and did everything by the book. I'd be surprised if Faye didn't have some sort of contract.
Also, we haven't seen Marten's reaction to this situation. Remember when he had to deal with Dora's problems? He reacted with anger and disgust at the end of his rope. He's likely going to leave Faye by herself, or have to cancel his date with Claire to deal with Faye. This is going to breed resentment. Marten is zen yes, but human nature dictates that at some point he will snap and react in a similar manner to Dora if Faye doesn't straighten out.
She also spends far more time with Faye than Marten does, and unlike Marten, Dora has been directly told by Faye that she wants to drink herself into oblivion. As far as we've seen, Marten has only observed Faye drinking earlier in the day than usual. Dora has far more information about the situation that Marten does.
Anyone want to blame Pintsize for not noticing? He has watched her change clothes (#33), lives with her, has fewer distractions than Marten does, is in the apartment all day, and knows a little about how bad she's been feeling about Angus.
Also, I can't help but wonder what Faye's next line would have been if Dora had simply stopped after the second panel. :?
No speculation as to where the story line will go, but I have to say Jeph did an amazing job with the DFF (Dora Fury Face) in panel 2 of Thursday's strip.
Thank FSM she doesn't have a car.No kidding. I once sent someone home for showing up to work completely drunk and who spent the first hour of her shift vomiting in the toilet. I had no authority to fire her, and the boss didn't decide to do so. About an hour after that, my remaining co-worker and I realised in horror that she always *drove* to work, and despite trying to do the right thing, let someone who was completely smashed behind the wheel of a car.
Who was it that said this could be Claire's chance to leave the nest while Faye couch surfs? Because as much as I would privately be heartwarmed, it's not likely they've been dating for what? Two/three days? A week tops?
I do think Jeph is setting this up to phase Dora out of the comic,Half the cast works at COD. Really doubt it's possible to delete Dora from the comic. Faye, OTOH...
Some predictions
* Dora may have fired Faye but Dora's going to have to find a way to make herself do the paperwork, she will probably find that harder to do than she feels at the present
* Sven will show up when he can do the most good, not when he can do the most bad
* Unfortunately that means Faye's got farther to fall (yes it's possible)
* Hopefully it doesn't happen while she's babysitting Sam (or if it does then Sam shows herself to be as capable of handling herself as she usually does)
* Marten's going to get hit with some serious choices
* The next time we see Angus he'll be eating cereal
Half the cast works at COD. Really doubt it's possible to delete Dora from the comic. Faye, OTOH...
* Hopefully it doesn't happen while she's babysitting Sam (or if it does then Sam shows herself to be as capable of handling herself as she usually does)
Sam usually gets sent to CoD, so I think it wouldn't happen, but I'd like to think either Faye or Jim would realize that her babysitting was a bad idea (if she smells like booze, like she did when she got to CoD today, I don't think it would really matter to Jim if she claimed she was just hungover). Otherwise I feel bad for everyone, but especially Sam. And maybe Jim, after his ex found out, if Faye had been convincing when Sam was left with her.
I looked for Josh White's version, but this is Cash. It'll do.
But like many people who have developed problems, Faye cant see it. I foresee that she has yet to hit rock bottom....
You can run on for a long time, but sooner or later Gods gonna cut you down.
I'm baffled as to how anyone can not be giving Dora the benefit of the doubt here. In my view, it's reasonable, even desirable, to be friends with your employees, but you still have to be a hardass when shit hits the fan like this. Now, admittedly, I'm an aspie so this is something that'll probably come across as being very weird to some people, but you gotta do what's best for the situation, right?
I approve of "time to shit all over Faye". As a selfish thoughtless bitch, she's had it a long time coming. Treated Marten like garbage for years while harboring a secret crush. Used to physically assault Marten and others. Used Marten and others as emotional crutches. Fucked a well-known douchebag in a friends with benefits situation for months and was too thick to foresee that she'd eventually suffer collateral damage from his douchebaggery. Treated a dude like shit for years, warmed up to him, loved him, then effectively told him to go fuck himself when he wanted to follow his dreams. Dad dying is an explanation that only works for so long. Eventually one has to take responsibility for their shitty actions.
Dora firing Faye is completely in line with Dora's hasty shithead behavior that she's showed for years in the comic. If she gets pissed off, she literally burns everything down. Dumped Marten for standing up for himself. Disowned her own brother. Now she's fired Faye. Dora has no concept of loyalty or empathy. I'm actually more interested to see where Dora's character arc goes, if it goes anywhere at all. I think Jeph uses Dora as a one-dimensional stereotype of erratic bitch behavior that we've all had experience with. I'd like to see Dora completely alone and possibly a meth-head after seeing the way she alienates everyone.
Regarding Marten, thanks to life events, he hasn't been spending as much time at the apartment as he usually does. He may have only seen Faye early and late. Combined with his knowledge of how badly breaking up with Angus has hit her, he's probably has been giving her the benefit of the doubt. He's going to be out until late today with Claire so he likely won't find out about this until tomorrow morning unless Dora thinks to ask Tai to warn him.
I'm not an aspie (and not American) and I also think Dora is doing the completely right thing, anger included. She is also doing the right thing for Faye: tolerating her doing this sort of thing is the last thing she needs. The only thing she can do as a friend is to support Faye once she's started on the road to recovery, now there's nothing to do but be tough.I'm baffled as to how anyone can not be giving Dora the benefit of the doubt here. In my view, it's reasonable, even desirable, to be friends with your employees, but you still have to be a hardass when shit hits the fan like this. Now, admittedly, I'm an aspie so this is something that'll probably come across as being very weird to some people, but you gotta do what's best for the situation, right?
I'm an Aspie as well. I'm confused by people thinking Dora is wrong in any way at all here too. I've never really liked Dora, but this is making me respect her. She set very obvious ground rules which Faye decided to ignore. CoD is Dora's baby, it's her life and livelihood. I'm starting to like Dora and dislike Faye, never even saw it coming.
I do think Jeph is setting this up to phase Dora out of the comic,Half the cast works at COD. Really doubt it's possible to delete Dora from the comic. Faye, OTOH...
This is worst-case stuff, Faye pulling lines from the self-destruction playbook.
I have real problems with Faye's entitlement here. You "can't" fire me? Uh? Special snowflake much? You come into work plastered and you expect that to be cool?
OK, screw Dora. But Faye has now lost her income. Marten cannot afford to pay her part of the rent, even if he is willing to accept her behavior for a while. Now, let us look at some of the options:(snip...)
- Faye moves in with Sven. Unfortunately, this is a possible and probable scenario. Faye will get sweet revenge on Dora, but Sven will probably kick her out again if she does not sober up. Besides, with Sven's notorious man-whore ways, this will not last (even if Sven proclaims to have changed, he will probably change again when he finally gets what he wants).
- Will Sam play a role? She adores Faye, and may have a positive influence. Hunting snakes and frogs in the woods may be just what Faye needs.
Actually, the HR may be interested in offering her a part-time job, as a bouncer (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=783). But she must not gain access behind the counter.
- Faye gets a job at the Horrible Revelation. This will be a very bad idea.
My problem wasn't just that Dora didn't tell her to get help, but either way that's an unfair comparison.As it is... Faye isn't in the right here, but Dora still lost likeability.
... I guess, but anyone who is holding Dora to that standard, but not Marten.... is kinda holding a double standard.
Dora has known Faye for longer, for one. She also spends far more time with Faye than Marten does, and unlike Marten, Dora has been directly told by Faye that she wants to drink herself into oblivion. As far as we've seen, Marten has only observed Faye drinking earlier in the day than usual. Dora has far more information about the situation that Marten does. And, after catching Faye drinking on the job, (Which should come as no surprise after Faye said she wanted to be drunk on the job the day before, came in reeking of booze, happy, and had no hangover,) Dora didn't seem concerned or sympathetic in the slightest, just angry.
So yes, I hold Dora to a different standard then Marten, because Marten is far more ignorant of the situation and hasn't reacted with pure anger to his best friend hitting rock bottom.
YOU, are a small business owner. You have recently promoted a long time friend to Assistant manager at her urging, because it will cut back on your workload. Said friend had previously signed a contract with you stating that she would not drink at work, do drugs at work, or any other actions that might interfere with her ability to preform her assigned duties.
Said friend is now clearly in breach of contract. You have a choice at this point. Act like her friend, or act like her boss. Previously, your other employees have expressed disapproval at the friend's promotion. If you allow your friend to continue at work after a large breach of contract, what kind of message does it send? What does it say to those employees who no doubt have their own problems, but continue to show up to work sober no matter the temptation to get shitfaced?
Also, we haven't seen Marten's reaction to this situation. Remember when he had to deal with Dora's problems? He reacted with anger and disgust at the end of his rope. He's likely going to leave Faye by herself, or have to cancel his date with Claire to deal with Faye. This is going to breed resentment. Marten is zen yes, but human nature dictates that at some point he will snap and react in a similar manner to Dora if Faye doesn't straighten out.
My old beagle, I don't feel bad about putting down at all. When we pulled the injection, the dog had been diabetic and blind for over a year. Three days before, he had a stroke that left him in a state where we had to guide him to his supper bowl because he could not find it on his own. Sure, it sucks that I lost a dog I loved, but I honestly believe that the stroke killed the dog and all we had put down was the empty shell. Call me creepy all you want, but I have never felt guilt about making the call to put him down.Agreed. I would've felt bad if I weren't in the room with him, but I'll never feel guilty about putting my old dog down a few years ago. That's not to say it wasn't difficult, and I certainly was sad, but never guilty.
Are you saying you didn't feel bad? I never required guilt. I just said there's nothing wrong, or pathological about guilt itself. That Guilt is Healthy in those circumstances. Broccoli is healthy too, but if you don't eat it, it doesn't mean your sick. Did you declare that you weren't going to feel bad about? Cuz I gotta stick to my guns on that one. That's a bit of creepy thing to do after your dog dies.
If you didn't feel bad, um... Okay. I'm not getting the impression that that's the message, so I don't see the point. Care to elucidate?
'Go home and get some Help.'No, it is blended:
Help. I don't know that brand. Is Help a single malt?
I honestly find it astounding that people are still willing to go a bit easier on Faye in order to put some of the blame on Dora. People have been putting up with Faye for months, and I honestly can't quite figure out why. What does she bring to the other character's lives? At the start she gave Marten company when he was basically a desperate loser, and through her he made a load of other friends, which seems more a peripheral benefit than anything Faye actually did. What she did actually do was threaten him, beat him up and vomit on him.
Tell ya one thing though, I'd really like it if people stopped referring to anybody, fictional or otherwise, as a 'bitch' in this thread, mmm'kay?
As for Dora I've no idea where this angry attitude is coming from.
I kind of wonder how this will affect Dora/Tai.:mrgreen: Alternative Tai: "You bitch! I get high as fuck at work all the time. Why don't you fire me as well? No, wait a minute, I quit!"
Dora: "I had to fire Faye for drinking on the job."
Tai: "I get high as fuck at work all the time, what's the big deal?"
I'm quite surprised at how resentful so many people are about Faye as a character, and even more about Dora.
One thing I'd say is that we have to keep in mind the slightly more comedic and, for lack of a better term, slightly less 'enlightened' circumstances of the earlier comics.
Jeph is an educated, sensitive gent, but in the early days he was playing Faye's violent tendencies for laughs, perhaps due to a lack of consideration or simply because the comic was a bit more cartoony in those days - either way I think he is nowadays far less likely to end a comic with the punchline being someone getting punched in the face.
The point I'm making is that accusing Faye of being a bad person based on her behaviour in earlier comics, when Jeph possibly won't have known himself as much as a writer, or known as much what he was aiming to achieve, isn't really fair on him at all, or on the character of Faye.
As for Dora I've no idea where this angry attitude is coming from.
Tell ya one thing though, I'd really like it if people stopped referring to anybody, fictional or otherwise, as a 'bitch' in this thread, mmm'kay?
This is huge. Rather than leaving with the impression of just being fired for drinking, Faye can now portray Dora as having flipped out on her and being out of touch with reality. I totally agree with Natswash that Faye can and probably will tell her friends she quit instead of being fired. More importantly, Faye can now use this angle to poison Marten/everyone else against Dora and avoid admitting the real reason for her dismissal.
Except Marten's reaction will most likely be to talk to Dora. The other employees at the coffee shop are going to hear Dora's side first, and most likely agree with her. I predict Hanners is going to be a nervous wreck after this though.
I dunno, I could see him finding out from Faye first, then talking to Tai about it. I definitely see Tai getting involved and talking with Claire/Marten about it. Probably talk to Emily too.
Dora sending a mass text to everyone "HEY I JUST FIRED FAYE CAUSE SHE'S DRUNK HAHA" would be real douchey, not to mention unprofessional.
Dora sending a mass text to everyone "HEY I JUST FIRED FAYE CAUSE SHE'S DRUNK HAHA" would be real douchey, not to mention unprofessional.
For sure, but not informing her/Faye's friends about what had happened (in more respectful tones, of course) would be downright irresponsible.
Dora sending a mass text to everyone "HEY I JUST FIRED FAYE CAUSE SHE'S DRUNK HAHA" would be real douchey, not to mention unprofessional.
For sure, but not informing her/Faye's friends about what had happened (in more respectful tones, of course) would be downright irresponsible.
Dora sending a mass text to everyone "HEY I JUST FIRED FAYE CAUSE SHE'S DRUNK HAHA" would be real douchey, not to mention unprofessional.
For sure, but not informing her/Faye's friends about what had happened (in more respectful tones, of course) would be downright irresponsible.
An attempt may be made and I think Hanners will be available but Marten...?
"Hi, this is Marten; leave a message 'cause I can't take calls right now..."
"Yeah, he's busy making out with me! *giggles*"
"Claire! Damn it! No more sugar for you! Anyway, yeah, leave a message and a number, kay?"
Really? Man, not sure how I feel about that.
Also, no one else is moving in with Marten unless she's put on a bus.
Really? Man, not sure how I feel about that.
Sorry man, was just trying to be funny, no offense meant.
Or as someone mentioned earlier, call mom. Veronica Reed can be very convincing. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2383)
Hanners is the only one who's exploded and not put up with Faye's shit (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1108). Hanners will sort Faye out.
My problem wasn't just that Dora didn't tell her to get help, but either way that's an unfair comparison.As it is... Faye isn't in the right here, but Dora still lost likeability.
... I guess, but anyone who is holding Dora to that standard, but not Marten.... is kinda holding a double standard.
Dora has known Faye for longer, for one. She also spends far more time with Faye than Marten does, and unlike Marten, Dora has been directly told by Faye that she wants to drink herself into oblivion. As far as we've seen, Marten has only observed Faye drinking earlier in the day than usual. Dora has far more information about the situation that Marten does. And, after catching Faye drinking on the job, (Which should come as no surprise after Faye said she wanted to be drunk on the job the day before, came in reeking of booze, happy, and had no hangover,) Dora didn't seem concerned or sympathetic in the slightest, just angry.
So yes, I hold Dora to a different standard then Marten, because Marten is far more ignorant of the situation and hasn't reacted with pure anger to his best friend hitting rock bottom.
Hanners is the only one who's exploded and not put up with Faye's shit (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1108). Hanners will sort Faye out.
In my experience, reducing a discussion to semantics is a sure fire way to create tension in said discussion. I'd say that it's pretty obvious that Penguin47 is saying that he felt sad that the right thing to do was to put his dog down, but was in no way going to feel like it was his fault, due to it being the right thing to do. That's a healthy way to approach an unenviable task. I can see this going the same way your discussion went a couple days ago with a poster whose name I can't remember, and in both cases I'm afraid I think you're being a little overly-critical of people's uses of language, seeing as you obviously have a background in philosophy, Reindeer. Like I said, when in discussion with those who might not have the same background it would probably lead to fewer arguments if you were to take people up on the spirit they have made their points in, rather than the specific philosophical definition of some of the words they have used.
As others noted, I just don't see how she will get Marten so mad he won't put up with her shit in the shorter run. Marten is someone with great patience, and very submissive - he's a textbook enabler. And he already has a dynamic where he's willing to do whatever is needed to support Faye. Faye drunkenly trying to seduce Marten out of loneliness would be ugly and awkward, but it wouldn't sunder their friendship any more than Martin doing inverse hurt things. Faye would need to be an unemployed drunken bum for months before Marten would start setting limits - and even then I wonder if he'd hit up his mom for some money rather than kick Faye out.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
And this is why I believe the SS Clairten may be in danger of running aground on Drunken Faye Reef. Marten knows that his friend Faye is drinking because she's in pain, and him being the kind of guy he is, he'll try to help Faye however he can. Faye won't hesitate to soak up ALL the help Marten tries to provide, especially if it enables her to keep drinking (which it almost certainly will). This being the very beginning of his and Claire's relationship, Claire may object to Marten giving so much attention to someone apparently determined to drink themselves into the gutter (as Claire may think). Also, Marten being Marten, it may take him a long time to realize he has to set boundaries on what he does for Faye, and even longer to actually put those boundaries in place. Meanwhile, his erstwhile girlfriend gets more and more annoyed at the time and attention sink drunken Faye is becoming.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
I think that that whoever said that the title of this being the Great Schism means more than just Faye and Dora is right. I think that all of the months that Marten wondered about his rudderless life will culminate in his decision that he needs to break free of Faye and her problems. I don't mean he'll drop her as a friend, just that he can't let her issues consume him and he will move away from her similarly to the way he moved away from Steve. I disagree, themacnut, that Claire will be the loser. I think Faye will be. I feel Marten understands that if he allows Faye to drag him into her mess, he'll be back at square one. He's growing and Faye is regressing. Possibly she'll get pulled out of it, but I think that in this arc, we will see Marten actually growing a pair and deciding to do what is best for him. Claire is what's best for him and I think he is starting to realize that.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
And this is why I'd vote on Claire. Well, two reasons more: First, Claire was recently Jeph's favorite character. It would be an extremely odd (but actually kind of heroic in an writerly sort of way) if Jeph put his fav on a bus. I'm assuming Jeph is human and probably won't do that.
I don't presume to moderate, but it seems to me that this is not the appropriate forum for the topic of me. There's PM's and stuff for that--though this isn't an invitation to PM. I've said everything I have to say so I likely won't bother reading anything more on the subject, unless it's handed down by a mod in an official capacity.
This conflict may get serious enough where Marten may find himself forced to choose between Faye and Claire, and whoever he decides against will then proceed to remove themselves from his life. Considering the history between him and Faye, and the fact that Claire is a relative newcomer...it doesn't look good for Claire.
And this is why I'd vote on Claire. Well, two reasons more: First, Claire was recently Jeph's favorite character. It would be an extremely odd (but actually kind of heroic in an writerly sort of way) if Jeph put his fav on a bus. I'm assuming Jeph is human and probably won't do that.
Bear in mind that at various times Jeph has said Dora and Faye have been his favourites. He's been writing the comic for twelve years and things change, favourites change and right now, Dora is seemingly fading into the background, while Faye is crashing and burning. Nothing is ever certain. Remember that.
It gives Faye a potential out for legal action.
Faye was very insecure when Marten started dating Dora, but at that time the romantic feelings between them were not fully buried, and they had been friends for a much shorter period of time. While she's going through a bad spell now, I don't think she'll worry about Claire stealing Marten away for quite awhile.
What if Faye follows in her father's footsteps and commits suicide? After being fired and going on another drinking binge, she might think everything is hopeless. Even though she has a possibility of being rescued by Sven, who might decide to put up with Faye's issues because he's blinded by love/lust.
I could imagine a scenario where Marten and Claire come back from their date and find Faye's lifeless body on the sofa or in the bathroom. If Faye kills herself, the repercussions on the cast will be huge. The funeral would be a way to bring old characters back in an ensemble setting.
It's also possible that they find Faye so drunk and passed out that they call an ambulance and she goes to the hospital. Again, it would be a way to bring older characters back as they visit Faye.
I'm quite surprised at how resentful so many people are about Faye as a character, and even more about Dora.
One thing I'd say is that we have to keep in mind the slightly more comedic and, for lack of a better term, slightly less 'enlightened' circumstances of the earlier comics.
Jeph is an educated, sensitive gent, but in the early days he was playing Faye's violent tendencies for laughs, perhaps due to a lack of consideration or simply because the comic was a bit more cartoony in those days - either way I think he is nowadays far less likely to end a comic with the punchline being someone getting punched in the face.
Pretty much from her introduction Faye has been an entitled leeching thug. Her interactions with others are rarely pleasant, nearly always to her benefit and usually joyless. At leaast Pintsize has the excuse he was programmed that way, Faye is just an extremely self-centred jerk and frankly "wah wah, I saw my dad kill myself" doesn't hack it.
Finally, I think it should be noted there's an outcome that people haven't considered - that Faye "recovers" for a time, dialing back the drinking without addressing the underlying issues. I could see her rationalizing the reason she went to work drunk was not because she was an alcoholic, but because she actually started to hate working at CoD, and was looking for an excuse to leave.
Addressing the speculation about how bad it could get, Faye IS committing suicide right now. She's doing it on the installment plan instead of all at once.
I find it very difficult to really hate someone on a personal level when that someone is a fictional character created and written by someone trying to tell a story. There are characters I dislike seeing, but I have a hard time forgetting that they do not themselves have much in the way of agency and that makes it very difficult for me to let myself fill my head and my heart with the purest most malign kind of hatred. It just feels weird and fucked-up I guess.Well said.
I thought I'd dislike the coming arc but I think I'm going to enjoy seeing Jeph's take on Faye's descent into drunkenness.
No no, that's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about Marten seeing his longtime good friend Faye in trouble, drinking herself half to death, him trying to help her, and Claire being resentful of his efforts, especially once it becomes clear that Faye is taking advantage of that help (as alcoholics do) to get more alcohol and stay drunk.
For example, Faye goes home after her firing, gets drunk and then drunk-dials Marten while he's out with Claire. He picks up, she starts crying into the phone about how unfair Dora is etc, while slurring horribly, making it clear to Marten that she's very drunk. Then she drops the phone and Marten hears gagging and puking sounds as Faye throws up. He's quite naturally going to end his date with Claire early to rush home and check on Faye. Claire's not going to like that. She may try to be understanding at first, but if this kind of thing keeps happening (and it will, Faye 'cause Faye will keep getting plastered for awhile yet) she's going to start speaking out against doing anything for Faye.
This will cause a growing conflict within Marten - listen to his girlfriend, who will demand he cut Faye off, or help his equally demanding and troubled friend Faye, who he fears will destroy herself? His choice will determine whether he keeps his girlfriend and maybe the course of Faye's life; if Marten decides he's sick of her shit, who else can she depend on to put up with her?
Lots of assumptions about Claire in recent posts. My bet is Jeph is going to show us a Claire that rates a lot more respect than we thought. "Little Mother," anyone? Might break the Pugnacious Peach into little peach pieces, which will gratify some.
I haven't seen such Faye-hate, by the way, since a former forumite projected her real-world nemesis onto the P. Peach. The venom is dripping into the popcorn.
Which is why I can see this dragging out for a week or three until she finally hits rock bottom and metaporically 'Burns Her Bridges' with everyone, at which point Jeph may send her away for a while (with the odd peak in) while she gets her act together.
I mean our time. I personally wouldn't want to see Fayes decent into self-destruction to drag out more than that - maybe with an extra two weeks thrown in with the odd 'Filler Strip' to give us a breather from all the drama - to do so would be, I think, flogging the proverbial dead Horse Comic and Storyline wise before she's dragged offscreen for a wee while for Rehab.
Aside from Faye jerking Marten around in terms of a potential love interest in the first 500 strips (and a little bit of residual possessiveness thereafter), what exactly has Faye done to this point which is emotionally draining to Marten? When did she ask him to choose between emotional growth and supporting her? It would be just weird for Marten to turn his back now, when she's in the wrong but clearly needs support, because it's not like he's been continually fucked over in recent years.
Edit: Bottom line is while you might think that Faye is a shitty person, and was a shitty employee, she has been a great friend to Marten since around the thousandth strip. You cannot undo all that overnight, or even in 200-300 strips.
When you put it that way, I don't see how Claire wins. In Marten's eyes, Claire's demands will seem petty, cold and self-serving. Unless he realizes on his own (e.g., independent of any relationship conflict) that he's enabling Faye.
If nothing is true, nothing can be right.
If nothing is true, nothing can be right.
But is everything permitted?
So, as I see it, we have a few possible long term outcomes, listed in from I feel like is the most probable to the least:
-Salvage, in which Faye's relationship with the other cast members will eventually recover, or at least reach some sort of equilibrium. No guarantee she'll get hired back, though.
-Demotion, with Faye getting a lot less face time, representing how her relationship with her friends has suffered and they just don't spend as much time together. Would probably include her moving out.
-The Bus, probably with Faye either going back south or following Angus. It might end up being a Bus with a return ticket, but a long absence seems likely if she comes back at all.
-The End, with Faye permanently written out, possibly dead.
It all comes down to Jeph's plans for the comic, and which outcomes he's willing to use.
From a comic-having a dramatic arc perspective rather than a people-having-people-drama perspective, I think the coming story arc revolves around one very important question: Jeph's willingness to ax a core character. The characters who have been put on a bus or simply disappeared from view so far haven't been core characters to the comic, and Faye's ultimate fate largely depends on whether or not Our Benevolent Comic Overlord is ready to make that choice. If he is, then we could very easily see this arc end with Faye gone in one way or another. I don't have any predictions as to the way he would do so, though Bus seems like the cleanest way to make that break.
Another possible long term outcome is what I'm going to call Cast Demotion. I'm sure there's a term for it, but I don't peruse TVTropes, so I don't know it. We might see Faye go from core cast to supporting cast once everything blows over. We've seen Cast Promotions a couple of times, most notably with Claire going from a supporting role to a core cast member almost overnight during the Scritch Event, (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2800) but other than Cosette kind of fading into the background, we really haven't seen much in the way of characters becoming less vital to the comic.
So, as I see it, we have a few possible long term outcomes, listed in from I feel like is the most probable to the least:
-Salvage, in which Faye's relationship with the other cast members will eventually recover, or at least reach some sort of equilibrium. No guarantee she'll get hired back, though.
-Demotion, with Faye getting a lot less face time, representing how her relationship with her friends has suffered and they just don't spend as much time together. Would probably include her moving out.
-The Bus, probably with Faye either going back south or following Angus. It might end up being a Bus with a return ticket, but a long absence seems likely if she comes back at all.
-The End, with Faye permanently written out, possibly dead.
It all comes down to Jeph's plans for the comic, and which outcomes he's willing to use.
My prediction for an upcoming comic is Marten comes home from date. He then sees Faye face down on the floor/couch. Unclear if she's passed out or dead...
If nothing is true, nothing can be right.
But is everything permitted?
As the professor who taught my graduate electromagnetism course likes to say, "Everything which is not forbidden is required."If nothing is true, nothing can be right.
But is everything permitted?
Quote from: ItsNotATumorIt gives Faye a potential out for legal action.
Honestly? I don't think Faye even has the mental togetherness to fathom that as a reasonable course of action. This sounds very naive I'm sure, but I think something in Faye's (more sober) brain would still go "hey, woah, no, she's my friend" - hence why she tried to bargain for her job back. She might be done with CoD and her employment, but I don't think she's manipulative or vindictive enough to try and get Dora's business sunk.
It's Not a Tumor, none of that will fly... (snip)... Faye has no case.
but other than Cosette kind of fading into the background, we really haven't seen much in the way of characters becoming less vital to the comic.
I find it very difficult to really hate someone on a personal level when that someone is a fictional character created and written by someone trying to tell a story. There are characters I dislike seeing, but I have a hard time forgetting that they do not themselves have much in the way of agency and that makes it very difficult for me to let myself fill my head and my heart with the purest most malign kind of hatred. It just feels weird and fucked-up I guess.
I thought I'd dislike the coming arc but I think I'm going to enjoy seeing Jeph's take on Faye's descent into drunkenness.
I find it very difficult to really hate someone on a personal level when that someone is a fictional character
I don't think it's necessarily weird or fucked up to hate a fictional character.
But I think the time has arrived. The difference between then and now is that - not to be unfair to Marten - he really didn't have much "growth" going on. He was just sort of there, rudderless, especially after the Dora breakup. He was in his library job just doing whatever. Now, he is taking steps to really do something musically, he has a girlfriend and he's trying to man up ... just as Faye is falling apart. Faye has always relied on Marten sort of just being there for her. I think subconsciously she has relied on the notion that if things had gone a bit differently, she and Marten would be together and she was Marten's 'first choice.' Marten has grown a lot in this time and I don't know if Faye recognizes this. Just as she spoke in an entitled manner to Dora after being fired, I think that Faye feels a bit entitled to Marten's unwavering support. If she doesn't get it, she may very well press the issue. That won't end well for either of them.
other than Cosette kind of fading into the background, we really haven't seen much in the way of characters becoming less vital to the comic.
I find it very difficult to really hate someone on a personal level when that someone is a fictional character
I don't think it's necessarily weird or fucked up to hate a fictional character.
(https://rockpaperwatch.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/ojw2b1mivw7e06xjmt151.jpg)
Fuck!Agreed :(
Or are they implying that Pintsize drank so much that he also passed out?If he did, then he very well may have saved Faye's life.
I feel bad for Pintsize, I mean, AI are supposed to be autonomous entities, right? I feel like thier off switches should be hidden or removed, or something.
It looks to me like he objected to how much Faye was drinking, so she turned him off, preventing him from going for help when things started to get bad.
Or are they implying that Pintsize drank so much that he also passed out?
Hooray, Marten reacted with trying to help Faye once realizing how she had hit rock bottom. Instead of the other thing.
Hooray, Marten reacted with trying to help Faye once realizing how she had hit rock bottom. Instead of the other thing.
We don't know how he's going to react when he learns what happened. Yes, Marten will likely be mild-mannered and supportive like always, but he doesn't know about her getting fired yet.
Jeph wouldn't kill her off by having her choke on her own vomit.
... she is just passed out right now, I'm assuming.
Did she kill Pintsize?
From someone who works in the ER (pharmacist), as long as her liver is ok and didn't choke on vomit, she'll live (albiet with a massive hangover). But with her depression, I'd get her to the ER for fear that she took something with it and tried to kill herself - not that Jeph would ever off a main character like that. A banana bag and some IV fluid, and she'll be ready for they psychiatrist....
http://www.alcohol.org.nz/alcohol-you/your-body-alcohol/health-effects/alcohol-poisoning (http://www.alcohol.org.nz/alcohol-you/your-body-alcohol/health-effects/alcohol-poisoning)
http://www.hazelden.org/web/public/ade90201.page (http://www.hazelden.org/web/public/ade90201.page)
Didn't Marten turn Pintsize off when he was making love with Padma?I believe so, that's what I was thinking.
I am having so much trouble sympathizing with Faye, she's causing so much damage.
Did she kill Pintsize?
I am having so much trouble sympathizing with Faye, she's causing so much damage.
Did she kill Pintsize?
Pintsize looks to be turned off. And it has happened before in the comic. It's usually when they need to fix him but it isn't unheard of.
OT: Yeah, Marter needs to call 911. Whether he realizes it or not is a different story. Faye has thrown up from drinking and fell asleep before and its not as if he is privy to what happened earlier. He may just think to leave her there.
Not coherent afterward (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=185).Post redacted.
Hooray, Marten reacted with trying to help Faye once realizing how she had hit rock bottom. Instead of the other thing.
Everyone!!!! What if this is the beginning of Cosette's Curse????
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1710
Marten and Faye living together is one of the core elements of the comic. Should Faye leave in any way, I will start to believe we are approaching the End.
6. The outcome of this arc is preparation for how Jeph ends the comic entirely
Just want to say: Faye could be just fine or already dead. Alcohol's kind of funny like that.
Her head is turned to the side, which reduces her chances of choking on her own vomit or blood by a tremendous amount. Of course, if she drank a bottle of 80 proof whiskey inside of a day, she's probably in a state where her health could deteriorate rapidly. Even if you don't take her to a hospital, you basically gotta baby her just in case she starts having breathing problems (especially because of her weight and how heavy her drinking is).
Anyway, why would Jeph kill Faye off? It'd be too easy.
I just hope, for the love of chicken, that Angus does not come back and give up on his dream to be with Faye. There's never a good reason to jump on a sinking ship.
Obligatory :clairedoge: included because I enjoy the image.
Anyways, hopefully Marten can be the calm in this shitstorm."Eye of the shitstorm", eh? Sounds nice...
Okay, all I have is logic. AI is people, post singularity. If Faye rendered him permanently inoperative, she murdered him.Yeah, that was in my mind as well.
Here's hoping those little white chunks on the couch aren't pills.
Just want to say: Faye could be just fine or already dead. Alcohol's kind of funny like that.
Her head is turned to the side, which reduces her chances of choking on her own vomit or blood by a tremendous amount. Of course, if she drank a bottle of 80 proof whiskey inside of a day, she's probably in a state where her health could deteriorate rapidly. Even if you don't take her to a hospital, you basically gotta baby her just in case she starts having breathing problems (especially because of her weight and how heavy her drinking is).
Anyway, why would Jeph kill Faye off? It'd be too easy.
I just hope, for the love of chicken, that Angus does not come back and give up on his dream to be with Faye. There's never a good reason to jump on a sinking ship.
Obligatory :clairedoge: included because I enjoy the image.
Two things: 1: Her weight? By no stretch of the imagination is Faye overweight enough to cause breathing problems. 2. I'm sure Marten checked to see that she was breathing before he called Claire. If she were dead (which she is 100% not) I think his reaction would not have been nearly as chill.
Indeedily!
Leave it to the trained medical professionals who are more than likely experienced in dealing with people in such horrid states of alcohol poisoning.
Anyways, hopefully Marten can be the calm in this shitstorm."Eye of the shitstorm", eh? Sounds nice...
I'm sad that Marten's date was cancelled. Damn you, Faye!
Warning - while you were typing an incalculable number of new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your math skills.
It's not that she's overweight enough to cause breathing problems normally, it's that alcohol consumed in blackout quantities combines with a slightly above average weight to create those conditions. Admittedly, the correlation goes for just about anybody who weighs say 20 pounds or more above what would be the 'desired' weight for their body.
No, but being told that your best friend *intends* to drink themself into oblivion and desires to be drunk at all times is pretty similar to finding them passed out drunk and with vomit on the couch. That is, the thing Dora IGNORED.Hooray, Marten reacted with trying to help Faye once realizing how she had hit rock bottom. Instead of the other thing.
Right, because firing someone for coming in plastered and loading up again, against regulations is the exact same thing as finding your AI companion shut off or erased and said person passed out in a pool of their own vomit. :roll:
It's not that she's overweight enough to cause breathing problems normally, it's that alcohol consumed in blackout quantities combines with a slightly above average weight to create those conditions. Admittedly, the correlation goes for just about anybody who weighs say 20 pounds or more above what would be the 'desired' weight for their body.
So is it the same mechanism that puts even modestly overweight people at risk for sleep apnea, but with the alcohol making things worse by blocking the wake-up reflex, even before it pulls its other trick of direct respiratory depression?
It didn't really come out of the blue as Faye's been known to handle her problems with alcohol before. Faye wasn't letting on that the breakup was hitting her as hard as it was. You have to take into account that Martin's time has been spent out of her presence more often lately due to Claire, and therefore he likely hasn't realized just how often she's been drunk for the past few weeks. As for Dora, if she's only around her at work and hasn't been hanging out with her outside of it, same thing. I've known plenty of people who come into work hung over, and don't even let on. However, once Faye came in drunk and proceeded to drink in the store, shit got real. Faye pole-jumped over the line that Dora drew in the sand, and Dora acted accordingly. She's never been one to mollycoddle.No, but being told that your best friend *intends* to drink themself into oblivion and desires to be drunk at all times is pretty similar to finding them passed out drunk and with vomit on the couch. That is, the thing Dora IGNORED.Hooray, Marten reacted with trying to help Faye once realizing how she had hit rock bottom. Instead of the other thing.
Right, because firing someone for coming in plastered and loading up again, against regulations is the exact same thing as finding your AI companion shut off or erased and said person passed out in a pool of their own vomit. :roll:
Why do people keep acting like Faye's drinking at work came totally out of the blue?
Are you a medical professional or some sort of specialist in the sciences of life?
Are you a medical professional or some sort of specialist in the sciences of life?
Nothing of the kind, which is why I had to ask the question. Just speculating based on my own sleep apnea problem. Please do not add that to your fact bank unless I turn out to have guessed right!
It's time Marten sacks up and buys a new couch!
Ah, it's getting worse and worse :(
I'm with a few other posters here - Marten should have called the emergency services immediately. Like, now. No calling Claire beforehand. And no, I don't think he already has - he's exactly where he was when he entered the room, he didn't move over to check if she's still breathing or has a pulse, which the operator would have told him to do.
It would have been way more responsible to call Claire when Faye's on the way to the hospital or already there - I mean, he probably wouldn't need to call it off anyway, he could just call the EMTs, let them take Faye and then proceed to watch a movie at Claire's. Won't take more than 15 minutes. I don't know how response-times are in the US, but they're in a city; emergency services should be at the scene in in less than 10. Of course I don't think he'll leave Faye alone when she's hurting like that, but the impression I got from his priorities (first tell his girlfriend that movie-night is off, an announcement that could have waited 10 minutes, especially when his friend might be in life-threatening danger; he didn't even check on her) is that he's mostly annoyed and way less concerned.
I don't know how response-times are in the US, but they're in a city; emergency services should be at the scene in in less than 10.
I don't pretend to be any kind of medical professional (okay, once or twice), but wouldn't vomiting mean Faye's in significantly less danger, because a sizable puddle's worth of alcohol is now in a sizable puddle, and not in her? I thought that was the whole reason people vomit from drinking too much.I don't know how response-times are in the US, but they're in a city; emergency services should be at the scene in in less than 10.
That's a difficult thing to judge about US cities, but I live near Detroit, so I'm a bit biased.
Warning - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. At least you know where your towel is.
We don't know what happened between panels 3 & 4. He might have checked her breathing already. It looks like he hasn't moved, but it might just be the way our POV is set up. Agreed that he should be calling 911 though.
I don't pretend to be any kind of medical professional (okay, once or twice), but wouldn't vomiting mean Faye's in significantly less danger, because a sizable puddle's worth of alcohol is now in a sizable puddle, and not in her? I thought that was the whole reason people vomit from drinking too much.
I don't pretend to be any kind of medical professional (okay, once or twice), but wouldn't vomiting mean Faye's in significantly less danger, because a sizable puddle's worth of alcohol is now in a sizable puddle, and not in her? I thought that was the whole reason people vomit from drinking too much.
I don't know about you, but after policing vomit, I wouldn't want to jump right into cuddles and a movie.
Anyways, hopefully Marten can be the calm in this shitstorm."Eye of the shitstorm", eh? Sounds nice...
I'm sad that Marten's date was cancelled. Damn you, Faye!
Warning - while you were typing an incalculable number of new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your math skills.
doe snot
Ah, it's getting worse and worse :(
I'm with a few other posters here - Marten should have called the emergency services immediately. Like, now. No calling Claire beforehand. And no, I don't think he already has - he's exactly where he was when he entered the room, he didn't move over to check if she's still breathing or has a pulse, which the operator would have told him to do.
It would have been way more responsible to call Claire when Faye's on the way to the hospital or already there - I mean, he probably wouldn't need to call it off anyway, he could just call the EMTs, let them take Faye and then proceed to watch a movie at Claire's. Won't take more than 15 minutes. I don't know how response-times are in the US, but they're in a city; emergency services should be at the scene in in less than 10. Of course I don't think he'll leave Faye alone when she's hurting like that, but the impression I got from his priorities (first tell his girlfriend that movie-night is off, an announcement that could have waited 10 minutes, especially when his friend might be in life-threatening danger; he didn't even check on her) is that he's mostly annoyed and way less concerned.
I mean, he probably wouldn't need to call it off anyway, he could just call the EMTs, let them take Faye and then proceed to watch a movie at Claire's. Won't take more than 15 minutes.
I mean, he probably wouldn't need to call it off anyway, he could just call the EMTs, let them take Faye and then proceed to watch a movie at Claire's. Won't take more than 15 minutes.
Oh come on! Marten is going to stay with Faye, even if she goes to hospital, and even if the hospital relegates him to a waiting room. There's absolutely no way he can or will just go out to enjoy himself.
I'm not yet sure Jeph will take it the hospital route, though.
I foresaw your wit and beat you to the punch :mrgreen:
The word I used was /dislike/ I do not HATE her, I reserve hate for REAL people, and me DISLIKING a character due to how they act isn't a discredit to the author, the fact I can feel ANYTHING for any of the characters period is a testimony to the authors writing, and besides me disliking Faye does not discredit my opinion in the slightest, last I checked one of the rules of the site wasn't "You must like ALL OF THE CHARACTERS to discuss them"
*edited b/c Doe snot is irrelevant to mah post
Damn you Faye, interrupting my Claireten feelgoodtimes with your issues.
Also a fifth of whiskey really isn't that much, considering how much and how often Faye drinks, her tolerance is likely quite high.
I'm not sure what Marten thinks he'll spend time doing at this point - if Faye's injured or dead, he'll have to leave her to the EMTs, and if she's not, he'll probably not be able to wake her up. And maybe he shouldn't, anyway.Given the state of both Faye and Pintsize, and his couch, I'm guessing Marten's thinking she shouldn't be left unsupervised, which indicates to me he isn't planning on a hospital trip, at least not yet.
Agreed with Zalder. If we assume the pint on the couch is the same she had at COD, then she's either had a fifth and two pints, two fifths and pint, or one pint plus maybe a fifth and maybe another pint pluse however much of the fifth she found in her bed. The unkowns are whether the large bottle in today's is a fifth or a pint and how much is left in the the bottle from the morning, if anything.
That's a lot of booze in a part of a day.
Agreed with Zalder. If we assume the pint on the couch is the same she had at COD, then she's either had a fifth and two pints, two fifths and pint, or one pint plus maybe a fifth and maybe another pint pluse however much of the fifth she found in her bed. The unkowns are whether the large bottle in today's is a fifth or a pint and how much is left in the the bottle from the morning, if anything.
That's a lot of booze in a part of a day.
Alirght, I'm a teetotaler so...what's a fifth in measurement terms? A fifth of the bottle?
Okay, when i saw the comic the last thing that came to my mind was an hospital.
I'm seeing thinks like Marty taking care of Faye, when she woke up and do a move on him.
But you guys are probably right.
Okay, when i saw the comic the last thing that came to my mind was an hospital.
I'm seeing thinks like Marty taking care of Faye, when she woke up and do a move on him.
But you guys are probably right.
Let's put it this way: there really looks like there was a lot of blood in Faye's vomit. That means a ruptured stomach ulcer and it means that she's bleeding out internally right now. She's going to hospital and she's going under the knife to sow her stomach lining back together. Although that's a routine operation, it does have a surprisingly high failure rate so it's going to be everyone hugging in the waiting room and hoping for the best.
After that, the doctors are going to want to monitor her for a few days and flush the toxins (booze) out of her system. Depending on how well she recovers and how certain the doctors are she may or may not end up in alcohol rehab for a few weeks to make sure that she is on the wagon. One thing that she is going to have to get used to is this: with a weakened stomach lining, she's going to be on a very bland diet for a few weeks and she's going to be told "No more booze or else".
Overall, Faye is going to be out of circulation for between a week and a month at least, in-comic time.
A lot of things are going to have changed, I think, when she's ready to rejoin the world.
Depends on the size of the city, how many EMT stations are in said city and where they're located, time of day and how heavy the traffic is, construction, weather/road conditions... in other words, it could be 5 minutes, it could be half an hour or longer, all depending on the variables.
Also, blood in vomit? I don't see that. I see whiskey (perhaps poorly rendered) and gravy or curry, eaten in a huff. Blood on comic terms would be more red, as that stuff isn't dried out yet (if it was dried out, she'd probably be dead by now).
Vomit always contains corn and carrot, no matter what you've actually eaten. Everyone knows that! :angel:
Also 757 milliliters for the metric people who don't know.Actually, a fifth is typically 750 ml nowadays (it was redefined from 1/5 of a US gallon to 750 ml during metrication).
Okay, when i saw the comic the last thing that came to my mind was an hospital.
I'm seeing thinks like Marty taking care of Faye, when she woke up and do a move on him.
But you guys are probably right.
Let's put it this way: there really looks like there was a lot of blood in Faye's vomit. That means a ruptured stomach ulcer and it means that she's bleeding out internally right now. She's going to hospital and she's going under the knife to sew her stomach lining back together. Although that's a routine operation, it does have a surprisingly high failure rate so it's going to be everyone hugging in the waiting room and hoping for the best.
After that, the doctors are going to want to monitor her for a few days and flush the toxins (booze) out of her system. Depending on how well she recovers and how certain the doctors are she may or may not end up in alcohol rehab for a few weeks to make sure that she is on the wagon. One thing that she is going to have to get used to is this: with a weakened stomach lining, she's going to be on a very bland diet for a few weeks and she's going to be told "No more booze or else".
Overall, Faye is going to be out of circulation for between a week and a month at least, in-comic time.
A lot of things are going to have changed, I think, when she's ready to rejoin the world.
[edit]
Fix'd typo
Hopefully Marten explains to Claire what's actually going on, too - Claire's the kind of person who will work herself up into a panic over Marten just cancelling a date out of the blue, if there's not a reason for it. I think she'll be completely understanding if he explains, but...
Yes, but then I would have said that Faye working at Coffee of Doom was one of the core elements of the comic.
New bet:I vote for this as the most unlikely theory I ever read in this forum.
What are the odds Sven finds out about this, ends up on Angus's talk show as a music guest some day, and punches him in front of the cameras for reasons neither of them fully understands?
I also think some people might be misinterpreting the "insubordination" speech; to me, it sounded like she was saying "Look, I put up with your quirks, I even eat up your (metaphorical) shit and call it ice cream, but you broke the one rule I asked everyone not to break under any circumstances."
New bet:
What are the odds Sven finds out about this, ends up on Angus's talk show as a music guest some day, and punches him in front of the cameras for reasons neither of them fully understands?
I'm sad that Marten's date was cancelled. Damn you, Faye!
For future reference, don't try to drive someone to the hospital in a situation like that. If she stops breathing, better to have it happen inside an ambulance with oxygen and expert people right there than in your car in traffic.
Are you a medical professional or some sort of specialist in the sciences of life?
Nothing of the kind, which is why I had to ask the question. Just speculating based on my own sleep apnea problem. Please do not add that to your fact bank unless I turn out to have guessed right!
I think you have. More research is required.
I bet if Jeph had any idea the reaction was going to escalate this quickly, he'd have written this differently. Like, smaller bottles, to start.
I don't think real world physics is in play here. I mostly pointed out the LD50 because people need to be aware. In real life, that much drinking can kill you.
As for what Marten has to spend time doing: Leaving out the alcohol poisoning stuff, he has to get Faye out of her own vomit. Bile and skin should not be mixed.
He needs to clean up what he can.
I don't know about you, but after policing vomit, I wouldn't want to jump right into cuddles and a movie.
Ew.
Long time Lurker, first time poster!
I don't like Faye, I've never really liked her to be honest? That type of person I'd find extremely unpleasant to be around, I fully acknowledge that she's been through hell, but she always puts the other people around her through hell too which is really unfair , she seems to expect constant support no matter how badly she behaves...I think it's time she finally dealt with some consequences of her actions (Losing her job is a consequence of her own actions)
I'm not trying to challenge anyone's right to detest fictional characters, but I gotta ask: If you hate [insert appropriate girl's name here] so much, why do you read the comic?
I am honestly unable to guess why, and I really would like to know.
Also a fifth of whiskey really isn't that much, considering how much and how often Faye drinks, her tolerance is likely quite high.
Let's put it this way: there really looks like there was a lot of blood in Faye's vomit. That means a ruptured stomach ulcer and it means that she's bleeding out internally right now. She's going to hospital and she's going under the knife to sew her stomach lining back together. Although that's a routine operation, it does have a surprisingly high failure rate so it's going to be everyone hugging in the waiting room and hoping for the best.
I'm not trying to challenge anyone's right to detest fictional characters, but I gotta ask: If you hate [insert appropriate girl's name here] so much, why do you read the comic?
I am honestly unable to guess why, and I really would like to know.
I'm not trying to challenge anyone's right to detest fictional characters, but I gotta ask: If you hate [insert appropriate girl's name here] so much, why do you read the comic?
I am honestly unable to guess why, and I really would like to know.
I think it's less about truly hating them as though they're individuals and more about deciding which character(s), for you as a reader, fill the role of antagonist. Every story needs conflict and most conflict is caused by people, right? Hating Faye (or Dora, or whomever) seems to me no different from saying "I hate Iago, look what he's doing to poor Othello!" That doesn't mean you don't think he's a well-constructed character in a compelling story.
It's a strong, thoughtful author who can inspire this kind of diversity of reaction in his readers, to the point that people are taking sides about who the antagonist even really is. Instead of one mustache-twirler, we get deeply human, sometimes ambiguous or contradictory, behaviors that we interpret differently. And we can all point to different strips to support different readings.
To me, asking "Why read the comic if you hate the characters?" misses the subtleties of what "hate" entails when used in this context. We do it for the same reason we watched seasons 1 & 2 of The Office even as Michael Scott's social ineptitude made us almost physically uncomfortable. Anything that can inspire a visceral reaction, even if it's a negative one, makes for enjoyable narrative art.
Next question: How will Dora react? Is she going to blame herself for causing this?
I'm not trying to challenge anyone's right to detest fictional characters, but I gotta ask: If you hate [insert appropriate girl's name here] so much, why do you read the comic?
I am honestly unable to guess why, and I really would like to know.
I think it's less about truly hating them as though they're individuals and more about deciding which character(s), for you as a reader, fill the role of antagonist. Every story needs conflict and most conflict is caused by people, right? Hating Faye (or Dora, or whomever) seems to me no different from saying "I hate Iago, look what he's doing to poor Othello!" That doesn't mean you don't think he's a well-constructed character in a compelling story.
It's a strong, thoughtful author who can inspire this kind of diversity of reaction in his readers, to the point that people are taking sides about who the antagonist even really is. Instead of one mustache-twirler, we get deeply human, sometimes ambiguous or contradictory, behaviors that we interpret differently. And we can all point to different strips to support different readings.
To me, asking "Why read the comic if you hate the characters?" misses the subtleties of what "hate" entails when used in this context. We do it for the same reason we watched seasons 1 & 2 of The Office even as Michael Scott's social ineptitude made us almost physically uncomfortable. Anything that can inspire a visceral reaction, even if it's a negative one, makes for enjoyable narrative art.
I'm not unaware of that kind of, I guess, adversarial, response to a villainous character. But the Dora/Faye hate in this thread seems to be different. I can't relate to your feelings about the Office. I don't find that kind of comedy funny. I'm bad at schadenfreude, I guess.
I'm guessing this involves some kind of thrill of watching a train wreck, or something. I'm not big on villains I don't love to hate. Greg House for example. I don't want to be him. I don't condone his methods. But I enjoy watching him being bad. I can't relate to watching a bad guy and actually despising the character.
I'm not sure if you're talking about something different from my experience or not. It sounds like those who have expressed vitriol towards Dora and Faye are not enjoying the villainy they see. The best example I can relate is a slasher film. I don't enjoy the villainy. I don't watch them. If that makes any sense.
Yeah, it would have made sense for Dora to alert Marten to the situation. Then again, she might not have had the chance yet. She's at work, after all, minus one employee.I imagine Dora was there just to open shop with Faye, and handle the daily coffee roast. Now, she has to cover Faye's shift. She could call Dale, who is always happy for more work, but he may of course be busy with one of his other jobs. Anyhow, after the morning rush there should be plenty of time to make a few phone calls.
I'm not trying to challenge anyone's right to detest fictional characters, but I gotta ask: If you hate [insert appropriate girl's name here] so much, why do you read the comic?
I am honestly unable to guess why, and I really would like to know.
I think it's less about truly hating them as though they're individuals and more about deciding which character(s), for you as a reader, fill the role of antagonist. Every story needs conflict and most conflict is caused by people, right? Hating Faye (or Dora, or whomever) seems to me no different from saying "I hate Iago, look what he's doing to poor Othello!" That doesn't mean you don't think he's a well-constructed character in a compelling story.
It's a strong, thoughtful author who can inspire this kind of diversity of reaction in his readers, to the point that people are taking sides about who the antagonist even really is. Instead of one mustache-twirler, we get deeply human, sometimes ambiguous or contradictory, behaviors that we interpret differently. And we can all point to different strips to support different readings.
To me, asking "Why read the comic if you hate the characters?" misses the subtleties of what "hate" entails when used in this context. We do it for the same reason we watched seasons 1 & 2 of The Office even as Michael Scott's social ineptitude made us almost physically uncomfortable. Anything that can inspire a visceral reaction, even if it's a negative one, makes for enjoyable narrative art.
I'm not unaware of that kind of, I guess, adversarial, response to a villainous character. But the Dora/Faye hate in this thread seems to be different. I can't relate to your feelings about the Office. I don't find that kind of comedy funny. I'm bad at schadenfreude, I guess.
I'm guessing this involves some kind of thrill of watching a train wreck, or something. I'm not big on villains I don't love to hate. Greg House for example. I don't want to be him. I don't condone his methods. But I enjoy watching him being bad. I can't relate to watching a bad guy and actually despising the character.
I'm not sure if you're talking about something different from my experience or not. It sounds like those who have expressed vitriol towards Dora and Faye are not enjoying the villainy they see. The best example I can relate is a slasher film. I don't enjoy the villainy. I don't watch them. If that makes any sense.
If people see Faye or Dora as comparably one-dimensional as, say, Jason Voorhees, then I agree, that's a weird, adversarial place from which to be reading a comic about occasional kissing.
I'm assuming that Marten's going to tell Claire a bit more about the situation than what we've seen. It would be nice to see her go over to Marten's to help him clean up and just generally be there for him.
DOCTOR: "I have a Mr Marten Reed as Ms Whittaker's designated emergency contact...?"
In late, but here's my thoughts.
- We don't know if the bottle(s) were full when she started guzzling. I doubt she planned this binge by first making a shopping trip. She may have just drank whatever part bottles she could find in the house (and in her purse).
- the color of puke: Maybe she had marinara for lunch.
- Pintsize: Whatever happened, I doubt he was much other than a smartass. That's historically been his character. His current apparently catatonic state could be anything from impact damage to a porn induced haze. Or he could have gotten bored after Faye passed out and simply gone into "screen saver" mode for a while.
We don't really know, but given that it's Friday, we're going to be hanging on this dramatic cliff-hanger for a couple of days. Jeph is a clever and evil man.
OK, I'm a noob, and I know this isn't the time for it...
but someone has to explain to me the whole "While you were posting, such and such" thing, and how it seems to (sometimes) intelligently comment on what's been posted.
Are these forums actually a self-aware AI? They are, aren't they? And QC is just Jeph's extremely round-about way of making society comfortable with the concept of AI-human interaction.
DOCTOR: "I have a Mr Marten Reed as Ms Whittaker's designated emergency contact...?"
New bet:
What are the odds Sven finds out about this, ends up on Angus's talk show as a music guest some day, and punches him in front of the cameras for reasons neither of them fully understands?
DOCTOR: "I have a Mr Marten Reed as Ms Whittaker's designated emergency contact...?"
Unless Faye has a legal directive authorizing Marten to do so, he can't make any medical decisions on Faye's behalf.
Ya'll's is forgettin'. Marten's barely 26. Party days are not a distant memory. He's probably not really versed on the dangers of alcohol overdose. Passed out, puked, and breathing is a party foul at that age.
Yet another misery she has visited upon poor Marten. She really is a happiness vampire.
OK, I'm a noob, and I know this isn't the time for it...
but someone has to explain to me the whole "While you were posting, such and such" thing, and how it seems to (sometimes) intelligently comment on what's been posted.
Are these forums actually a self-aware AI? They are, aren't they? And QC is just Jeph's extremely round-about way of making society comfortable with the concept of AI-human interaction.
We copy and paste them, add a colour tag and edit it ourselves.
Sorry. Is this like telling a kid the Santa Clause in the mall isn't real by shooting him execution-style in front of them?
OK, I'm a noob, and I know this isn't the time for it...
but someone has to explain to me the whole "While you were posting, such and such" thing, and how it seems to (sometimes) intelligently comment on what's been posted.
Are these forums actually a self-aware AI? They are, aren't they? And QC is just Jeph's extremely round-about way of making society comfortable with the concept of AI-human interaction.
We copy and paste them, add a colour tag and edit it ourselves.
Sorry. Is this like telling a kid the Santa Clause in the mall isn't real by shooting him execution-style in front of them?
It's people making fun/smart comments about the automated "people have posted while you were writing" message. Not copy/pastes. It's kind of a forum tradition.
DOCTOR: "I have a Mr Marten Reed as Ms Whittaker's designated emergency contact...?"
Unless Faye has a legal directive authorizing Marten to do so, he can't make any medical decisions on Faye's behalf.
This is only a gut feeling on my part but I suspect that Faye has long since had either Dora or Marten listed officially as having authorisation to act on her behalf if she's incapacitated. Her mother lives several states away and there is no guarantee that she would be available; the sensible move for Faye would be to have the most clear-headed of her friends named to act for her.
In late, but here's my thoughts.
- We don't know if the bottle(s) were full when she started guzzling. I doubt she planned this binge by first making a shopping trip. She may have just drank whatever part bottles she could find in the house (and in her purse).
- the color of puke: Maybe she had marinara for lunch.
- Pintsize: Whatever happened, I doubt he was much other than a smartass. That's historically been his character. His current apparently catatonic state could be anything from impact damage to a porn induced haze. Or he could have gotten bored after Faye passed out and simply gone into "screen saver" mode for a while.
We don't really know, but given that it's Friday, we're going to be hanging on this dramatic cliff-hanger for a couple of days. Jeph is a clever and evil man.
I think the fact that a whole panel is devoted to Pintsize looking, honestly, as if he has been deactivated or erased sort of indicates that whatever is happening with him, it's not mundane. Especially considering this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2870). I think it's entirely possible that he tried to stop her and said he was calling Marten and she turned him off or, as suggested, threw him against a wall.
There had been something bugging me about this comic and I think I know what it is, and that's Marten's complete lack of surprise. As opposed to here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2816). The cases are similar. If he had no heads up, he would probably, upon seeing Pintsize be like "What the fuck ...?" instead of resigned silence. The same with Faye. He looks concerned but he doesn't have the look of shock as a person who has no idea that their roommate got fired for drunkenness and might have gone on a bigger bender. So I am thinking, especially since prior to their first date he told Claire that getting all dressed up wasn't really necessary, that Dora did call him or text him, or at the very least, texted Tai.
I have been around a lot of people who smoke and a lot who drink. It's really more about how much you do more than what you do. Pot is often touted as a 'lighter' drug than things like cocaine or alcohol... but it's not, really. You can get just as messed up. I can't speak for long term effects of it, but in the short run I've seen people as disabled by smoking as by drinking. I've seen those who have enough of a buzz on that their judgement is impaired on both, and enough that have just a light buzz but otherwise function normally. I couldn't tell you personally though. I've been mildy drunk before, but never falling down drunk. And I can't go near pot smoke. Even being near people who are smoking gives me migraines. Tai seems to be someone who just gets a light to moderate buzz, and has enough awareness to know when she has had to much and should just sit down and watch Adventure Time.
(if she never got around to shipping it back)
Regarding Pintsize: If his current chassis has been seriously damaged, then they'll need another one to get him operational again. The only two available are Momo's original Chibi-chassis and, possibly (if she never got around to shipping it back) the RoboBoyfriend Dr Elicott-Chatham built for Hannelore.
Now, just think about what Pintsize might be like running around in a human-sized body that's just a bit too 'uncanny valley' for any girl to find attractive.
There had been something bugging me about this comic and I think I know what it is, and that's Marten's complete lack of surprise. As opposed to here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2816). The cases are similar. If he had no heads up, he would probably, upon seeing Pintsize be like "What the fuck ...?" instead of resigned silence. The same with Faye. He looks concerned but he doesn't have the look of shock as a person who has no idea that their roommate got fired for drunkenness and might have gone on a bigger bender. So I am thinking, especially since prior to their first date he told Claire that getting all dressed up wasn't really necessary, that Dora did call him or text him, or at the very least, texted Tai.
Sharing a bottle with the Grim Reaper
What I think can happen now that Marten had to cancel his date:
Claire, being inexperienced and apparently quite insecure, might be a little shaken. I don't think she knows about Marten and Faye's pre comic 500 past, so when she DOES learn about that, she might start going down the same insecurity route Dora went.
And that's the moment Dora herself enters the picture and tells Claire not to make the same mistake she did.
I can see Pintsize's current situation being used to bring up a AI rights subplot.
If one fifth of 80 proof liquor REALLY had a 50/50 kill chance, I, as well as a large number of my friends, have all had lottery winning levels of luck in not dying in our 20s. I think that there is something you might be missing in how those calculations are done.
(also, I'm sure Faye weighs more than 60kg, though I didn't in my hardest drinking partying days)
Claire is aware of Marten and Faye's early relationship - as a matter of fact, it was summarized (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2457)by Pintsize.
If one fifth of 80 proof liquor REALLY had a 50/50 kill chance, I, as well as a large number of my friends, have all had lottery winning levels of luck in not dying in our 20s. I think that there is something you might be missing in how those calculations are done.
(also, I'm sure Faye weighs more than 60kg, though I didn't in my hardest drinking partying days)
It's not a fifth, you're right. It's 535 millimeters. About 13 shots for a 75 kg person.
It's actually somewhat surprising that human beings survive anything, but in this case it generally takes some work to reach that level, and it does all have to be consumed faster than the liver can process it.
Around 13 shots per hour will give 50/50 odds of death for a 160-ish pound person. I'd guess Faye to be in the 140 to 160 range, so the fact that she's had more than a liter and a half, possibly more than 2 liters, is worthy of consideration.
Math is not that hard.
Also, the actions to take before calling 911: Check and see if they are breathing irregular, check to see if their pulse is low, check if breaths per minute is low, check if they have a pain response. If none of those things come up negative, you really just need to keep a REALLY close eye on them. If any of those come up as a warning sign, THEN call 911.
It's fine to talk the science of it for the sake of it, but I doubt it's actually relevant since Jeph probably doesn't know the science. He probably didn't research appropriate puke colors for the strip.
Faye fucked herself up good, but if she were literally dying it'd be a much different tone.
Pintsize on the otherhand is totally dead.
It's fine to talk the science of it for the sake of it, but I doubt it's actually relevant since Jeph probably doesn't know the science. He probably didn't research appropriate puke colors for the strip.
Faye fucked herself up good, but if she were literally dying it'd be a much different tone.
Pintsize on the otherhand is totally dead.
Prediction wise if Marten consoles Drunk!Faye and Claire comes over to find out what happened I could totally see her walking in on a hug and getting the wrong idea. Or worse.We've already had that storyline, though.
Prediction wise if Marten consoles Drunk!Faye and Claire comes over to find out what happened I could totally see her walking in on a hug and getting the wrong idea. Or worse.
It's fine to talk the science of it for the sake of it, but I doubt it's actually relevant since Jeph probably doesn't know the science. He probably didn't research appropriate puke colors for the strip.
Faye fucked herself up good, but if she were literally dying it'd be a much different tone.
Pintsize on the otherhand is totally dead.
This too. I think people are reading way too much into this as far as the literal immediate danger. This is a plotline about a downward spiral. I seriously think the whole "she is vomiting blood", "pintsize is dead" stuff is just... a little weirdly over the top.
Ben stop making scary predictions! It's scary!
I think Pintsize may have tried to stop Faye from overdosing with the booze and she turned him off in a grumpy taciturn response.
Thinking about an AnthroPC getting turned off is actually kinda frightening, it's a massive loss of personal power (pun unintended and then relished and kept). I have to wonder if they have the ability to turn themselves back on after being externally deactivated, or if they must wait for external reactivation. If it's the first that must be a massive fear for some of them.
It's fine to talk the science of it for the sake of it, but I doubt it's actually relevant since Jeph probably doesn't know the science. He probably didn't research appropriate puke colors for the strip.
Faye fucked herself up good, but if she were literally dying it'd be a much different tone.
Pintsize on the otherhand is totally dead.
This too. I think people are reading way too much into this as far as the literal immediate danger. This is a plotline about a downward spiral. I seriously think the whole "she is vomiting blood", "pintsize is dead" stuff is just... a little weirdly over the top.
A lot of people on this forum tend to have a habit of putting the cart before the horse. And quite a few of them think they're the Nostrodamus of webcomics. Are we really surprised?
Two bottles -- is this when you call 911? With or without the risk of choking?
I'd hate to hit someone with the medical expen$e$ of an emergency room visit if all that were needed was carrying them to a bed, but the opposite mistake would be incomparably worse.
Agreed about Pintsize. Turning off a citizen who has equal rights has got to be an issue.
Ya'll's is forgettin'. Marten's barely 26. Party days are not a distant memory. He's probably not really versed on the dangers of alcohol overdose. Passed out, puked, and breathing is a party foul at that age.
That said, he doesn't know if it was only two bottles, and probably would assume it's more- I mean, Faye has been pretty wasted in the past, and he's seen her drunk many many times, but she's only passed out vomiting the one time in his lap, and I would argue that that was different (a different kind of passed out, more snoozy than unresponsive and floppy, plus he was there when it happened so he had an idea what happened).
I'm still not sure whether he will call 911 (although since people here seem pretty heavily in agreement, I want to know what Jeph will do if he doesn't), but that aside- you can list whoever you please as an emergency contact. They don't have to have medical authority over you. They may be expected to call someone who does, or to know about your insurance, but they don't even have to do that. Your emergency contact is just the person they contact first, to know that you were injured (or however you were admitted). Since most people aren't comatose forever once they're in the hospital, your emergency contact is usually also someone to help you get home, since they don't like to just put patients out at the bus stop (usually- that sucked). They've been to the hospital more than once, it's not unlikely that they'd have asked for a contact upon admitting her the first time, and Faye reasoned that Marten lives with her, so if she needs help, he can get to her quickly and also can let her back in the apartment.DOCTOR: "I have a Mr Marten Reed as Ms Whittaker's designated emergency contact...?"
Unless Faye has a legal directive authorizing Marten to do so, he can't make any medical decisions on Faye's behalf. Hospital will try to make contact with next of kin, so I hope Marten has their number. He wouldn't be a designated emergency contact unless Faye has woken up and made him such. Assuming Faye's still out, they'll either be treating her in the ER or admitting her. If there's no insurance available, they'll be less likely to admit her. (Yes, I've been through family medical drama. It's grim.)
This all assumes that Marten is on the ball enough to realize he needs to call 911. The fact that he called Claire first is not a good sign. WRT all the speculation about how much she consumed/pills or blood in the vomit etc. this is all beside the point. She was passed out in her own vomit. That's enough to call in professionals and not play guessing games.
If one fifth of 80 proof liquor REALLY had a 50/50 kill chance, I, as well as a large number of my friends, have all had lottery winning levels of luck in not dying in our 20s. I think that there is something you might be missing in how those calculations are done.
(also, I'm sure Faye weighs more than 60kg, though I didn't in my hardest drinking partying days)
It's not a fifth, you're right. It's 535 millimeters. About 13 shots for a 75 kg person.
It's actually somewhat surprising that human beings survive anything, but in this case it generally takes some work to reach that level, and it does all have to be consumed faster than the liver can process it.
Around 13 shots per hour will give 50/50 odds of death for a 160-ish pound person. I'd guess Faye to be in the 140 to 160 range, so the fact that she's had more than a liter and a half, possibly more than 2 liters, is worthy of consideration.
Math is not that hard.
I've known plenty of people who have regularly downed 1-2 fifths in a single night. They got sick, woke up fine (though very hung over). This happened a LOT when I was in my early 20s. To myself and others I have known.
The problem with the math is that that is in ONE HOUR. I sincerely doubt she downed two bottles in an hour, and depending on how much it has taken in the past for her to get drunk, Marten might actually not find it as that much overkill. The biggest two warning signs that this is "big problem" rather than just Faye getting drunk the way she has most of the comic is that A. She was completely alone, and B. its the middle of the day.
She was fired at what looked like opening. He was just getting off work before preparing to go out on a date. I'd guess it was around 4-5 o'clock. My bet is that she had a good 6-7 hours of drinking in there before she passed out. Also, that one bottle looks like the one she had at CoD, which she started drinking when she first woke up.
Literally, if 13 shots killed people 50/50, there would be more than around 2,200 alcohol poisoning deaths a year in the US. You'd probably have that just on University campuses. I know from experience.
Also, the actions to take before calling 911: Check and see if they are breathing irregular, check to see if their pulse is low, check if breaths per minute is low, check if they have a pain response. If none of those things come up negative, you really just need to keep a REALLY close eye on them. If any of those come up as a warning sign, THEN call 911.
She's a good friend who headed into a dark place, and Marten is responding with compassion, as he should.
You know you could just mix the porridges.
Never been much of a Faye fan, she's just plain mean sometimes and there's no way I would put up with that in an actual friend. I get enough jerky behavior from other people, I don't need it from the people I have in my life that I choose to spend extra time with.Emphasis added.
Standards which are just right lead to being eaten by bears.
Meh, you can still be lonely if your "friends" are people that insult you/are a general jerk/etc. Never been much of a Faye fan, she's just plain mean sometimes and there's no way I would put up with that in an actual friend. I get enough jerky behavior from other people, I don't need it from the people I have in my life that I choose to spend extra time with. A little teasing now and again is one thing, but there's a lot of actual meanness in what Faye says to people. I don't understand it and couldn't keep a friend who was like that, even if it meant I was lonely. I'd rather be a little lonely than be made to feel bad.
10.- Why aren't we funding that? Or bearsball, as defined by Jeph via Drunk Angus and Drunk Marten? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1427)
Standards which are just right lead to being eaten by bears.
Rampaging bears are the answer to all our cultural missteps.
You know...looking it over, it's possible that Faye may not have drunk as we thought. Remember when she started this drunken rampage:While I don't disagree with your overall point, I doubt Pintsize risked any damage to himself by drinking. It's been established that anything he intakes just goes to a holding tank with a spectrometer hooked up to it.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2870
Pintsize suddenly becomes interested in drinking alcohol, even demanding to drink it out of the bottle itself. Plus in the next strip Pintsize talks about how Faye described his life when she talks about knowing what the right thing is but not knowing how to do it. I think Pintsize has been trying to prevent Faye from drinking too much since that strip. I don't think she finsihed most of that bottle, Pintsize risked damaging his circuits by drinking most of it. Hell, I'd wager that the bottle Faye found isn't actually a hard liquor but something lighter solely to prevent Faye from committing alcohol poisoning.
It might be why Pintsize is knocked off on the floor right now. Faye brings home ANOTHER bottle and this time Pintsize tries being more direct, resulting in Faye shutting him off.
1. Faye is not in any medical danger. She's done a binge, passed out, puked in the best possible position for a passed out person (Instinct, experience? Obviously alchies can pass on their genes, so this might be inherited behavior.)Once again, I repeat - just because you puked up (some of) the alcohol, doesn't mean that you aren't still in danger medically, or at risk of dying.
Critical Signs and Symptoms of Alcohol Poisoning
-Mental confusion, stupor, coma, or person cannot be roused.
-Vomiting.
-Seizures.
-Slow breathing (fewer than eight breaths per minute).
-Irregular breathing (10 seconds or more between breaths).
-Hypothermia (low body temperature), bluish skin color, paleness.
What Should I Do If I Suspect Someone Has Alcohol Poisoning?
-Know the danger signals.
-Do not wait for all symptoms to be present.
-Be aware that a person who has passed out may die.
-If there is any suspicion of an alcohol overdose, call 911 for help. Don't try to guess the level of drunkenness.
No. The big shocker would be Faye wakes up, it's all been a dream and Bobby is in the shower.
Or maybe this (http://jamesleestone.deviantart.com/art/Spider-Villain-The-Shocker-HEY-166273586)
10.- Why aren't we funding that? Or bearsball, as defined by Jeph via Drunk Angus and Drunk Marten? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1427)
WHY IS THIS NOT A THING?!?!? 0_0
I seriously hope some of you are never the voice of reason at a party with lots of alcohol and drinking involved. You could very easily let someone die by means of lack of education on the matter. Not pointing fingers at anyone directly, but just saying.
All I'm pointing out is that just because they've puked they aren't automatically in the clear, as some people have stated previously. That's dangerous thinking.
You are correct there. Any time someone is passed out and has puked, its a serious situation. Someone needs to be all over that situation. It just doesn't necessarily need a hospital visit if that is the extent of the warning signs. I'm more reacting to the people who are reacting as though he should have been dialing 911 immediately upon seeing her.
I think Pintsize would only really become interested in alcohol if he worked out a way to pressurize the holding tank, and ignite it as it exited.
Flaming farts? Oh yeah. Flame thrower ass? Even better.
Faye is a jerk to people she doesn't know (mostly the customers at CoD). As I said, she hasn't done anything even borderline shitty to Marten since the first 1000 strips or so of the comic.
Frankly, out of everyone in the strip, Tai seems to be the worst friend to have. Although she's sort of up front about it with Marten, which is refreshing.
Edit: And Marigold. If there's one character in the strip I can't stand, she's it.
Depending on what Marten knows about the situation, phoning emergency services might mean not just a short trip to the ER, but a longer trip to a mental hospital. It's a safer place for her to detox than rehab, at the very least, and if the speculation of her having pills in that vomit is true, it shows that she's suffering from suicidal impulses.
In this whole strip, when it comes to characters, the old song is true: "There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys, there's only you and me, and we just disagree."
And, I think, we need to remember that this isn't a webcomic based on real life. The tipoff, as Jeph has also said, is that there's a bunch of little robots wandering around.
I've actually been pondering whether Marten is the character who has evolved the least so far..