I think I recall reading that Jeph stated, once upon a time, that there will never be a pregnancy arc.No pregnancy arc doesn't necessarily mean no pregnant characters. Someone could be pregnant and have a kid without it being a main focus. Benergy makes an interesting point about the "end of a chapter", but has this whole run so far been simply the first chapter? If there have been splits before, where did they occur? That one time jump a while back is the only one I can think of, although I guess The Talk and The Breakup could count as chapter breaks too.
Wait, did it specifically say she Office Spaced her way to all that money? I assumed she just hacked an account and took it.
And I don't get why so many people seem to want it to happen.
The beginning of QCs version of The Odd Couple.
Wait, did it specifically say she Office Spaced her way to all that money? I assumed she just hacked an account and took it.
I think it was more of a case that May was skimming the money from various accounts; where it could be anything from a couple of cent that people won't miss to tacking on larger amounts to budgets. You'd be amazed how often people don't really check what the "Miscellaneous" actually constitutes on a budget.
I think we'll stick with the Faye story arc for a bit. Here's why: Last week, Jeph tweeted (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/560839694184103936), "[This story is] coming from a personal place, yes, but I finally have the distance necessary to write about it." There is something emotionally cathartic about writing about things that have happened in the past and this might be Jeph's way to achieve peace (for lack of a better word, sorry) with what happened to him a couple years ago.This is why I'm not feeling the "timeskip" idea yet. There's still more to deal with in Faye's state of mind. More to work out. We just don't see all of it yet.
(If this has been brought up in previous WCDTs, sorry; with the flurry of new posts, it's been difficult to track what has been opined!)
Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.
Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.Very skeptical that this is any sort of standard procedure. Hospital risks getting sued to kingdom come by involuntarily putting a patient in a psyche ward, based on a verbal history.
Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.
Depends on whether or not the docs think there are suicidal intentions, at least in my state. The second and third times I was committed, there were other patients who were detoxing, and it wasn't pretty, even though they were given every drug that could possibly make it easier on them.Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.
Nope, that is not the way that works, at all. Believe me, I've been the accompanying party at the ER before, usually they just get a talking to followed by a referral before they're discharged
.
Edit: Sad Hanners these past few strips kinda hurts.
Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.I think if getting stuck into a psych ward is one of the usual outcomes when visiting the ER after alcohol abuse, a lot of people would be afraid to seek help.
It's nice to see Faye's realized she's got to get all the booze out of the apartment. I'm not going to lie, though... I've got a feeling she's not out of the clear yet. I can see her having one more setback before she finally gets real help. But, of course, that's just me. Who knows?As I have said before, I do not think this is sufficient. Faye needs a change of scenery as well, or else it will be too tempting to visit the nearest booze shop whenever she gets the urge (unless Marten and Hanners also confiscate her money and credit cards). A vacation with her friends, far away from bars and city life, might do her good.
Finally: it might be me, but Faye seems to be struggling slightly to remember the disarm sequence. I wonder how many times she has beencaught by hher own booby-trap?I do not think she struggles to remember, but she might be a bit embarrassed letting Marten access her underwear drawer. As for the booby-trap, it obviously is not lethal (or Pintsize would be dead by now), but I would guess it involves copious use of duct tape. With Faye's proven engineering skills, I guess it is very advanced.
Very skeptical that this is any sort of standard procedure. Hospital risks getting sued to kingdom come by involuntarily putting a patient in a psyche ward, based on a verbal history.Mmm... Yes. On a first admission for drinking way too much, I'd say it was unlikely too, even in much less litigious Australia. For one thing, there are limited places for psych observation/treatment, and cases have to be triaged against ones where there is immediate risk of the patient harming themselves or others.
The rent is probably a thing that needs to be resolved soon. Faye really should try to get another job, but might not be quite ready for it yet. I guess Hanners can help out, but it is not a long term solution.
I'm wondering whether Faye will end up working at the Secret Bakery? It's broadly the same sort of job she had at CoD but would be a change of scene. It also will bring her closer to a girl who I think would be the most powerful motive she could have to stay clean - She'd not want to risk her right to spend time with Sam for anything, IMO.Jeph introduced the Secret Bakery as a kind of alternate (or bizarro) universe (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1845), where the cast is complementary (but different) to CoD. Faye and Renee are strangely similar (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1859), and both have had a relationship with Angus (they are his "type"). Therefore, Faye and Renee as colleagues is a recipe for disaster, and I do not think this will happen.
Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.I think if getting stuck into a psych ward is one of the usual outcomes when visiting the ER after alcohol abuse, a lot of people would be afraid to seek help.
I would have thought she emptied her entire supply of booze by now.
Pills in the vomit - I don't think that there were any. If there were, the doctors do know about it. Why? It would have been in the EMT report if the EMTs saw them, and if Marten does have a tiny bit of common sense, he would have told them, since drugs do have contraindications with other drugs, and a sedative that's safe with alcohol might not be with other drugs.Also, we have no indications Faye has ever used pills. Alcohol has always been her preferred medication. If she tried to commit suicide, it could be questioned, but we have no indication she did try this. The vomit just look like the ordinary stinky soup with carrot bits (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2881). I would not suggest there are pills involved unless we had clear indications of this. Drawing vomit is probably difficult work, I do not think we should overanalyze this.
LAN Perk?Considering what May ran into looking for a job, that might lead to an interesting scenario: "Sorry, we don't hire humans."
Finally: it might be me, but Faye seems to be struggling slightly to remember the disarm sequence. I wonder how many times she has been caught by her own booby-trap?
He doesn't always have a buffer, but this time he did and simply uploaded the wrong one first.I'm imagining this being said by "The Most Interesting Man in the World" from the beer commercials.
Finally: it might be me, but Faye seems to be struggling slightly to remember the disarm sequence. I wonder how many times she has been caught by her own booby-trap?
Pun Jar. Now.
Considering what May ran into looking for a job, that might lead to an interesting scenario: "Sorry, we don't hire humans."
Why is everyone so excited for Faye to get another barista job? I mean, meh? There's nothing wrong with that line of work, but I don't think Faye was ever super into it.
She should go to the art gallery, ask for an advance, and then make something. She could probably live comfortably on a comission a month.
Finally: it might be me, but Faye seems to be struggling slightly to remember the disarm sequence. I wonder how many times she has been caught by her own booby-trap?
Pun Jar. Now.
Unintentional, I assure you. :angel:
No, it's time for Faye to do something completely different.
Manager for Deathmøle. I'm calling it now.
Why is everyone so excited for Faye to get another barista job? I mean, meh? There's nothing wrong with that line of work, but I don't think Faye was ever super into it.
She should go to the art gallery, ask for an advance, and then make something. She could probably live comfortably on a comission a month.
Still bad form not to get a toxicology screen on somebody found down and brought to the ED, though it looks like Marten did it by private car instead of calling EMS, so more understandable.
So are Apocalyptica's metal thrones they sometimes have on stage.No, it's time for Faye to do something completely different.
Manager for Deathmøle. I'm calling it now.
Maybe that would allow her to work on her art as well, setting up massive metal stages not unlike those of the EDM acts in real life.
What. Deadmau5' stage is kickass.
I'm really impatient for Dr Corrinne's overdue reappearance.
If it was covered by her insurance, then probably she was. Unless she was one of those that said 'Whelp, I have a boyfriend now, my relationship issues are over!' Which doesn't really sound like her. However, since we haven't seen the Doctor during this whole arc, she may have stopped going. I mean she would be the perfect person to be talking to about her worries over Angus getting the job and what it will mean. That is what she gets paid for after all.
For me it was a simple matter why I stopped going. I couldn't afford to go. My main reason was to get a hormone referral letter, but my doctor did help with talking about some of my other issues. But when my hours started to be cut at work, anything that was not essential (rent, bills, food) started getting cut away. There are times I wish I could go back, but I don't live in that area anymore, any my money still isn't great. I have bigger priorities to budget.
Another advantage of a change of scenery is that it would give Jeph a chance to stretch himself and do new things. A brand new location would be best for that, but the suggestion of the space station makes more sense the more you think about it. Hannelore could swing it, she could become a creative welder for building research gadgets, and I can just see Hannelore in her room saying "Station? You know how you helped me? Faye needs help untangling herself. Will you do that for me?".Called it last week:
Of course, Jeph may have other ideas. But perhaps he will listen if enough Forum members support this idea?
- Personally, I am hoping Hanners invites Faye to the Station. Faye may get treatment there, and perhaps be offered a barista job. I suspect they really need better coffee up there. It could also lead to an even bigger quantum leap in creativity.
I can just see Hannelore in her room saying "Station? You know how you helped me? Faye needs help untangling herself. Will you do that for me?".
It doesn't look to me that she's forgotten. If there was hesitation (...) or a verbal stumble (uh or hm), then I might believe it. Otherwise, it looks more like... not resignation, exactly, but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's just tiredness.
Why is everyone so excited for Faye to get another barista job? I mean, meh? There's nothing wrong with that line of work, but I don't think Faye was ever super into it.
She should go to the art gallery, ask for an advance, and then make something. She could probably live comfortably on a comission a month.
I don't know if people *want* her to get a job in another coffee shop it's just that she has shown talent for two things. Being snarky and welding. The only work experience she's shown has been the Coffee of Doom. As far as going to an art gallery and asking for money... I don't see that working. At all. There's a reason 'starving artists' are a thing. She had that one job literally fall into her lap and she could barely be bothered to do anything about it. That doesn't happen to most artists, who tend to spend years working at low paying jobs before selling anything.
Then again, this is a world where Sven can churn out a terrible song and get paid tons of money, and Jimbo makes a comfortable living writting about steampunk werewolf princesses...
By the way, was Faye still seeing her? Maybe less frequently , since Faye was doing better lately? I don't know the usual protocols in the States.
Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.
And here's my longshot, unlikely to happen idea: Faye somehow gets a job with the local talk radio station. Imagine her doing a phone in show and dealing with the typical talk radio phone in show listeners. Like Pintsize. He'd probably love bothering the local equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, although he'd probably only get a chance to do it once before he was banned from calling again.Pintsize would be impossible to effectively ban. Dude's an AI, he'd be pretty capable at getting around bans, spoofing fake numbers and such.
And here's my longshot, unlikely to happen idea: Faye somehow gets a job with the local talk radio station. Imagine her doing a phone in show and dealing with the typical talk radio phone in show listeners. Like Pintsize. He'd probably love bothering the local equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, although he'd probably only get a chance to do it once before he was banned from calling again.
Which is exactly why it'd be a terrible idea for her to work there. The idea is to get her away from alcohol, not immerse herself in a place where her addiction would be condoned.And here's my longshot, unlikely to happen idea: Faye somehow gets a job with the local talk radio station. Imagine her doing a phone in show and dealing with the typical talk radio phone in show listeners. Like Pintsize. He'd probably love bothering the local equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, although he'd probably only get a chance to do it once before he was banned from calling again.
Nah, she gets a job at the sex toy shop. Hell, the owner seems cool about drinking on the job.
It doesn't look to me that she's forgotten. If there was hesitation (...) or a verbal stumble (uh or hm), then I might believe it. Otherwise, it looks more like... not resignation, exactly, but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's just tiredness.
I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this, but I'm also surprised the possibility hasn't been brought up yet. We're all assuming she's hit rock bottom because she said she screwed up. You can realize you've screwed up and just keep on going screwing up. Hell, she's been in therapy since shortly after The Talk, and look where that's gotten her.
So what if that's not forgetting or hesitation, but deciding? As in, "Do I tell him about the fifth in the toilet tank or not? Or do I hope he finds that one so I don't have to mention the flask taped to the bed frame?"
I'd much prefer that she'd get it together, but 'til I see evidence that she's actually trying to do that, I remain skeptical.
It's obvious Faye knows she screwed up, but now she's acting like a bitch toward Hanners, and that's not OK. Hanners cares too much about her friends, and for Faye to be talking to her like that makes me irrationally angry. (I'd said in another post that I'd never be friends with Faye in real life, and this is a prime example of why. I hate her personality.) Any anger Faye's got should be self-directed for putting herself in such a position, unhealthy as that may be, but it's clear to me that she's angry with Dora, even if she's not saying it, which isn't fair anyway, since Dora did what any rational, sane boss would've done. Maybe she didn't know how bad Faye's drinking actually was, and never expected Faye to drink herself into the hospital.
That's why I think we're in store for another setback from Faye. I've got a feeling all of her friends doing their best to help her out is going to freak her out and she's going to end up having one more episode before she really, truly realizes what she's doing.
Affirmative. I can confirm as the accompanying party that blowing a .41 on arrival the second time in a month you drink yourself into a hospital is not enough to get you committed. Going home and immediately taking all of the pills they gave you for the withdrawal symptoms at once and washing them down with a fifth of vodka is, though.Looks like Faye lied to her doctors about what's going on, because if she responded truthfully to a basic history regarding alcohol use, she would be getting admitted a psych ward.
Nope, that is not the way that works, at all. Believe me, I've been the accompanying party at the ER before, usually they just get a talking to followed by a referral before they're discharged.
Yeah, this kind of thing is why I felt it was really lousy for Dora to even task her to talk to Faye about the insurance to begin with. Faye has always been a temperamental type of person. I'm sure coming off drinking doesn't make her any more pleasantthough it was a surprise how compliant she was with everyone who was helping her at the hospital.
The one good thing out of it is it sounds like she's done with CoD. Time for character growth!
I'd imagine the reason she was so compliant's because she wanted to get the hell out of the hospital. She probably didn't say anything about wanting to get out to Marten and Hanners because they'd have taken it the wrong way.....
I mean, I could be wrong, and I'm probably definitely wrong, but that's just how I see it playing out. I can also still see her going to Sven to get back at Dora for firing her, or some other sort of huge, ridiculous falling-out scenario between Faye and Dora.
Poor Hanners! Poor Faye too, because how are you supposed to say 'no' to a face like that? This is the moment when Faye realises that her actions do not occur in a vacuum - they also affect everyone around her. I don't think that she always appreciates that.I do not think Faye intended to be mean towards Hanners, as suggested by some. But she had to stop Hanners from believing she could go back to CoD. Faye genuinely likes Hanners, and is well aware of Hanners' vulnerabilities, but sometimes things have to be told.
maybe Hannelore has a secret [...] (e.g.: "Dale... I'm... I'm pregnant!").
Yeah, this kind of thing is why I felt it was really lousy for Dora to even task her to talk to Faye about the insurance to begin with. Faye has always been a temperamental type of person. I'm sure coming off drinking doesn't make her any more pleasantthough it was a surprise how compliant she was with everyone who was helping her at the hospital.
I think capping off the "we quit!" moment for Dora was the strip a few days later, when Faye suggests hiring Dale because he looks like a wimp. I thought the Wtf?? Moment for Dora then was that Faye legit didn't care how much her coworkers disliked working with her.
with Marigold! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2874)
with Marigold! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2874)
So a plot roughly similar to Heinlein's ''All You Zombies'', involving time-travel and Beatice Chatham being the future Marigold (perhaps with the help of cosmetic surgery).
Meh.... I've heard worse.
And frankly, Hanners tearing up irritated me a bit too. It's not about HER, it's about Faye, and when you're struggling to come to grips with something, the last thing you need is someone trying to set that back.I would have liked to see Hannelore trying to hide her reaction, to try to focus on Faye's situation. But she IS entitled to a reaction.
I gotta jump in as well and wonder about the people who say Faye is being mean to Hannelore or "taking it out on her." I don't see it at all. Faye is being the realist, taking responsibility for her actions and stating things as they are. She's not directing anything at Hannelore that Hannelore didn't interject herself into. I'm not a big Faye fan, but if anything it's Hannelore that is out of line in this one. I know that Hanners isn't very socially aware, but you can't expect anyone in Faye's current frame of mind to react with tact, and if anything, this a good lesson for Hannelore, who has almost certainly never had to deal with anything like this before.Exactly. Hanners is getting better every day, but still has a way to go regarding her response to harsh realities. Nobody wants to hurt Hanners, but she has to face facts when needed. Faye is not in the best mood, but all things considered, I think her behavior towards Hanners is friendly enough.
As for treating Hannelore badly..I don't see it. Faye's a bit cantankerous, but she didn't say anything that didn't need to be said.
with Marigold! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2874)
So a plot roughly similar to Heinlein's ''All You Zombies'', involving time-travel and Beatice Chatham being the future Marigold (perhaps with the help of cosmetic surgery).
Meh.... I've heard worse.
FWIW, my headcanon has long been that Hannelore is Beatrice's clone with genetic and cybernetic upgrades to make her 'perfect'. Unfortunately, neither Dr E-C nor Ms C considered whether this tinkering would have unplanned consequences on how the child's brain would develop; Hannelore's menagerie of mental health issues is the direct result.
I have got a fan-fiction semi-planned out in my head where it turns out that Hannelore could, potentially, be a sort of super-woman given her combined 'Woman-plus' genetics and 'The Bionic Woman' upgrades but she simply isn't that sort of personality. She may have the potential strength to bench-press an SUV but she would never want to cause a fuss by doing something like that. Besides, the underside of cars are dirty; she wouldn't want to touch that! :laugh:
Seriously. She is in a bad mood, and she is being grumpy.
I know many people love Hanners and hate Faye, and it's really coming across strong here. And I don't see why.
FWIW, my headcanon has long been that Hannelore is Beatrice's clone with genetic and cybernetic upgrades to make her 'perfect'. Unfortunately, neither Dr E-C nor Ms C considered whether this tinkering would have unplanned consequences on how the child's brain would develop; Hannelore's menagerie of mental health issues is the direct result.
That makes her sound sort of like a QC version of Sylia Stingray. (The 2032 version. I watched I think a grand total of two episodes of 2040 before bailing.)
I know many people love Hanners and hate Faye, and it's really coming across strong here. And I don't see why.
Because Hanners is innocent, naive and somewhat childlike.
Understand, I'm not in the "hate Faye" contingent. I totally get where she is. She's so miserable she's snapping at HANNELORE, and that's got to be pretty danged miserable.
IIRC, that xkcd strip was after DSL got his avatar.
Joss Whedon once said that if he wanted to make the audience cry, he'd have Alyson Hannigan cry.
Honestly, I read it as Hanners being upset that Faye would no longer be there at CoD, not at Faye's snapping at her.
Honestly, I read it as Hanners being upset that Faye would no longer be there at CoD, not at Faye's snapping at her.
Agreed. Given Hanners' reaction to Marten going to Secret Bakery after breaking up with Dora, she was going to be extremely upset, and now both Faye and Dora have made it clear that Faye coming back to CoD as an employee is Not Gonna Happen. Faye could have gone completely OOC and wrapped it in chocolate frosting with a cherry on top, Hanners was still going to be devastated by the change in her life.
Joss Whedon once said that if he wanted to make the audience cry, he'd have Alyson Hannigan cry. In Hannelore, Jeph has a similar means of breaking hearts.
Honestly, I read it as Hanners being upset that Faye would no longer be there at CoD, not at Faye's snapping at her.
Agreed. Given Hanners' reaction to Marten going to Secret Bakery after breaking up with Dora, she was going to be extremely upset, and now both Faye and Dora have made it clear that Faye coming back to CoD as an employee is Not Gonna Happen. Faye could have gone completely OOC and wrapped it in chocolate frosting with a cherry on top, Hanners was still going to be devastated by the change in her life.
Indeed. And we've seen how Hanners reacts to her friends being dicks, and it isn't teary - it's duck and cover. There's a comic that illustrates this, iirc, I just need to remember what the art style looked like so that I can properly troll the archives for it.
Honestly, I read it as Hanners being upset that Faye would no longer be there at CoD, not at Faye's snapping at her.
The litany of Whedon's literary crimes is long indeed, but this isn't really the place to go into that particular topic.
Hot Damn! Found it! That didn't take as long as I thought it would. And it is, indeed, Hanners dealing with Faye being snarky with her:
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1108
On a side note, going through pages, it's mentioned A LOT that Faye shouldn't drink so much, by a myriad of characters.
Also, looking back, it's amazing how Hanners has evolved through the strip. Her OCD seemed like more of an afterthought with her at the beginning. Was that chalked up to different medication, maybe?
No comic tonight? My page isn't showing the Twitter feed, so I'm kinda out of the loop...Eh, give it time. As for Twitter, you're not missing much now; he hasn't posted in the past six hours.
The litany of Whedon's literary crimes is long indeed, but this isn't really the place to go into that particular topic.
52 page thread, with several dozen forum members getting banned. Yeah, not a good idea.
Reading through here, I'm now immensely confused and sad I missed the preemptive thing that thinged.
2890 made me tear up with joy. I'll have more - much more - to say at the appropriate time.QC MMDCCCXCI: Behind Closed Doors
Makes me thing there's going to be YB for Friday, though. I mean, where do you go from there?
2890 made me tear up with joy. I'll have more - much more - to say at the appropriate time.QC MMDCCCXCI: Behind Closed Doors
Makes me thing there's going to be YB for Friday, though. I mean, where do you go from there?
I hope that's a new couch Marten's sitting on. :-\No, it is the same couch (I doubt they would get an identical one). But Marten is sitting on the non-puked (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2881) side. I guess they have flipped the cushion on the other side (again). Of course, they must address the issue eventually (Hanners has for a long time refused to sit in that couch).
2890 made me tear up with joy. I'll have more - much more - to say at the appropriate time.
Makes me thing there's going to be YB for Friday, though. I mean, where do you go from there?
Oh dear.(click to show/hide)
I've even started to dislike Marten because he's so utterly boring around Claire.
Faye: wow, I would have expected a lot more bad mood from her, but she's thankful and nice.
I've even started to dislike Marten because he's so utterly boring around Claire.
You take the view that happy stories are boring, and only ones with conflict are worthwhile, do you?
I hope that's a new couch Marten's sitting on. :-\I may be a bit Hanneloreish, but my first thought on seeing today's comic was how Marten can stand to sit on that couch now. Though it is important to note he's sitting on the right side of the couch. The left side is the puked side.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to examine your couch's cleanliness.
I hope that's a new couch Marten's sitting on. :-\I may be a bit Hanneloreish, but my first thought on seeing today's comic was how Marten can stand to sit on that couch now.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to examine your couch's cleanliness.
Faye: wow, I would have expected a lot more bad mood from her, but she's thankful and nice.
So far. I wonder how she'll be when she hasn't had a drink for a week... a fortnight... a month...
Or next time something stressful happens to her, for which job-hunting will provide plenty of opportunities.
Because, you know, Claire hasn't told Marten about herself at all (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2323), and Marten hasn't told Claire about his passions while on a date with her (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2323).
Never.
Look, people who barely know each other need to tell each other about themselves.
People who've worked together for quite a while - several months so far at least - and are friends who have already talked several times get to revel in each other's company instead.
I'd say it's just realistic.
I also missed the early comic, but from the sound of it, it may have been a good thing. Can't wait until Marten and Claire settle into the "good friends who cuddle and fuck" stage, and start acting normal around each other again.
More generally, I've found myself increasingly frustrated with the MOAR DRAMA contingent on the forum.
The "Never Again" caption on 2889 seems to say to me not only that Marten is setting boundaries, but we're not going to see Faye hit such a low point again in the strip. Not to say that she might slip up and get drunk again, but that she's going to for the most part be on a general recovery path. This not only keeps with Jeph's own experience with drinking, but also fits with Jeph not being really comfortable with high drama in his comic for long periods. The strip has no antagonist, and none of the main characters get the crap kicked out of them steadily for years of comic time. I don't think Jeph has it in him to write that sort of comic - he is attached to his characters, and not a sadist.
And seems that Jeph took 2890 down, as URL manipulation does nothing.
And seems that Jeph took 2890 down, as URL manipulation does nothing.
I wonder if there's some reason behind this since he doesn't normally do that when this happens, once it's out there it's out there. I wonder if he's changing anything or wants to set it up first.
Everything isn't all drama all the time. Whether it's a story or real life, people need time and space to step away from everything, take a deep breath, and just be. As IICIH mentions, there'll be time for drama later. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but to me one barometer (among many) of a healthy relationship is the avoidance of unnecessary drama.
Everything isn't all drama all the time. Whether it's a story or real life, people need time and space to step away from everything, take a deep breath, and just be. As IICIH mentions, there'll be time for drama later. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but to me one barometer (among many) of a healthy relationship is the avoidance of unnecessary drama.
True, but there isn't really a reason to show us that, is there? I assume Penny and Will are completely happy and maintaining their relationship well, mostly because we havent' checked in on them in a long time.
Marten and Claire are together, I am very happy about that and they seem well adjusted. But I've gotten my squees out of my system
This might be a good opportunity to take a breath and check-in on the various storylines happening right now in the Q.C. universe. Faye has been on our minds a lot lately (for obvious reasons) and it seems like tomorrow's comic might be some more development of Marten and Claire's relationship. So here is my list, submitted with permission:
- Faye: what happens next post-Angus, post-CoD, and after her stay in hospital?
- Marten and Claires relationship development
- How will Dora reconcile with Faye? What about Sven?
- What happened to Pintsize?
- Sven's unrequited pining of Faye
- Veronica possibly moving to Northampton to be with Jim
- Emily and Clinton
- Pintsize and Winslow Kickstarter shenanigans
- Hannelore's new nemesis: Juicy
Marten and Claire are together, I am very happy about that and they seem well adjusted. But I've gotten my squees out of my systemNo, you haven't. Not yet.
Trust me.
I'm kind of glad I didn't see 2890 yet, because the Claire/Marten storyline does nothing for me. I've even started to dislike Marten because he's so utterly boring around Claire.
I'm kind of glad I didn't see 2890 yet, because the Claire/Marten storyline does nothing for me. I've even started to dislike Marten because he's so utterly boring around Claire.
I'm in the same boat. The date comics and a lot of their interactions are just a bit too cutesy and saccharine for my tastes. That's not to say I want every conversation to be deep, or for the strip to be filled with nothing but drama, but I'd just like something to cut through the treacle, as it were. As I said, it's just a bit too much for my tastes.
That said, I'm obviously in the minority, so I don't want to be a grumpy malcontent who rains on everyone else's parade. So for those who do love it and can't help but squee...right on, by all means enjoy the hell out of it! We'll just have to agree to disagree on its appeal and awesomeness.
- Veronica possibly moving to Northampton to be with Jim
Two questions:
1. I thought Veronica had already moved?
2. How long has it been (in-comic) since Sven's "confession"?
I'm kind of glad I didn't see 2890 yet, because the Claire/Marten storyline does nothing for me. I've even started to dislike Marten because he's so utterly boring around Claire.
I'm in the same boat. The date comics and a lot of their interactions are just a bit too cutesy and saccharine for my tastes. That's not to say I want every conversation to be deep, or for the strip to be filled with nothing but drama, but I'd just like something to cut through the treacle, as it were. As I said, it's just a bit too much for my tastes.
That said, I'm obviously in the minority, so I don't want to be a grumpy malcontent who rains on everyone else's parade. So for those who do love it and can't help but squee...right on, by all means enjoy the hell out of it! We'll just have to agree to disagree on its appeal and awesomeness.
It's still in its early stages. A lot of relationships start out like that. Bitter recriminations happen shortly after marriage.
- Veronica possibly moving to Northampton to be with Jim
Two questions:
1. I thought Veronica had already moved?
2. How long has it been (in-comic) since Sven's "confession"?
1. She has already moved, yes. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2832) Her apartment is on Main Street, as I recall.Couldn't find the exact strip for that.Found it. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2718)
2. Immediately after second callback (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2739) Click a few pages.
2890 feels awkward, because while I can totally buy that passionate makeouts are Marten's place of comfort right now, it's harder for me to imagine what's going through the profoundly libidinous-inexperienced-maybe-dysphoric Claire's mind. The fact that we aren't given a lot of insight makes her makes her seem more like Marten's stress-ball than an independent person here.
I have nothing against subtext when it's used carefully. I don't want everything to be spelled out! But Claire's first sexual relationship should be a pivotal moment in her life and I think these moments should be at least as much about her as they are about Marten and Faye.
I have nothing against subtext when it's used carefully. I don't want everything to be spelled out! But Claire's first sexual relationship should be a pivotal moment in her life and I think these moments should be at least as much about her as they are about Marten and Faye.Wasn't this her first relationship, period? I mean, she had to ask when asking for a second date was appropriate. This all is going waaaay too fast if that's true, especially considering Claire's, shall we say, unique circumstances.
2890 feels awkward, because while I can totally buy that passionate makeouts are Marten's place of comfort right now, it's harder for me to imagine what's going through the profoundly libidinous-inexperienced-maybe-dysphoric Claire's mind. The fact that we aren't given a lot of insight makes her makes her seem more like Marten's stress-ball than an independent person here.
I'm not sure if it's intentional or simply a symptom of so many concurrent plot lines, but I've noticed these sorts of holes appearing more and more often in the narrative. Maybe holes is too strong a word, but the best I can come up with besides that is 'places where the reader is forced to draw their own conclusions, because it's not addressed in the story.'
we haven't seen anything either explicit or implied that suggests that Claire's giving up any of her agency in this situation.
An inevitability of their character designs, since neither Claire nor Marten have lips to lock.
Okay, today's comic is finally up.Just going by avatars, I'd expect AprilArcus to be the one saying this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2590).
I have to say I'm surprised people squeed, because there's nothing cute in it besides Claire's puppy-dog face in the first frame. It might be steamy, but it isn't endearing. Frankly, the hint of tongue in the kiss is kinda nauseating. Just IMHO, but semi or entirely open mouth kissing is one of those things which may be fun to do, but is pretty gross to see.
Just going by avatars, I'd expect AprilArcus to be the one saying this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2590).
Don't let it fool you. Hannelore in the streets, Sven in the sheets.
Where is this room with pink walls? I don't think we've been in there before.
I would like to point out, that this looks like the front door, not the bedroom door. And most places I have lived, the doors are self-locking. Things may not actually be going "too fast" here. Also, there are a few ways that I have looked at Claire's expression in panel 1.
we haven't seen anything either explicit or implied that suggests that Claire's giving up any of her agency in this situation.
I don't think she's being exploited, I'm just saying that I know exactly what is going through Marten's head in that scene and I can barely guess what Claire is thinking or feeling. That feels off.
I'm surprised that he hasn't tried scavangening a faux-leather one around moving day. Much easier to clean for the drunken antics of the cast.
Is it just me or does this feel too soon after the drama with Faye?
PREPARE THE ARBOR DAY BANNER!!!
Is it just me or does this feel too soon after the drama with Faye?
Depends on what's going on behind the door.
But whatever that may be, clearly the participants don't think so.
I'm thinking more from a story telling perspective: there wasn't a lot of lead up. I kinda found it jarring.
I'm thinking more from a story telling perspective: there wasn't a lot of lead up. I kinda found it jarring.
Marten probably hasn't slept a wink since finding Faye on the couch; he'll be out before his head hits the pillow.
Is it just me or does this feel too soon after the drama with Faye?
Hmmm.... I think it's the front door, and by panel 3 they've rotated 180 around each other and the POV is now from the hallway.I would like to point out, that this looks like the front door, not the bedroom door. And most places I have lived, the doors are self-locking. Things may not actually be going "too fast" here. Also, there are a few ways that I have looked at Claire's expression in panel 1.
If that's the case, the doorknob jumped from one side to the other in a single panel. I'm thinking that's his bedroom.
Did Faye spend a whole night in the hospital, or just a few hours? When are we right now?
Did Faye spend a whole night in the hospital, or just a few hours? When are we right now?
my guess is that it is the same day as he might have been stopping at home during his lunch break or only working a half day.
Stress? Although that's a very good point you raise and I'm just offering a token reason. I think you're probably rightmy guess is that it is the same day as he might have been stopping at home during his lunch break or only working a half day.
If that were so then why would Marten have bags under his eyes? I'm thinking Faye did a full overnight at the hospital, and was probably not released until the following afternoon. (I've been in hospital; they are not that swift at releasing you once you've been admitted.) Assuming the schism happened on a Friday morning, then this is Saturday evening.
I'm wondering if ClaireMom is OK with daughter having a sleepover.
That doesn't really make sense, though. That would involve Marten stepping out of the apartment, kissing Claire while simultaneously turning her around, then backing her back -into- the apartment, if we look at the doors themselves and whether they open in or out respective to the couple.. Doable, but extremely awkward, especially since Jeph is usually decent at depicting movement.Hmmm.... I think it's the front door, and by panel 3 they've rotated 180 around each other and the POV is now from the hallway.I would like to point out, that this looks like the front door, not the bedroom door. And most places I have lived, the doors are self-locking. Things may not actually be going "too fast" here. Also, there are a few ways that I have looked at Claire's expression in panel 1.
If that's the case, the doorknob jumped from one side to the other in a single panel. I'm thinking that's his bedroom.
It makes far more sense, flow-wise, that Claire stepped in, the kiss happens, and they then migrated their way into (presumably) a bedroom.
Isn't that where he'd lock Pintsize up (assuming he's working again) before she came over?
It makes far more sense, flow-wise, that Claire stepped in, the kiss happens, and they then migrated their way into (presumably) a bedroom.
I see that type of kiss all the time in comics, but never in real life. Like, it's an awkward way to kiss someone.
It makes far more sense, flow-wise, that Claire stepped in, the kiss happens, and they then migrated their way into (presumably) a bedroom.
Sorry to break the plot twist chain, I just wanted to comment in response to some of the people who are musing about it being "too soon" for Claire and Marten to do.. whatever they might be doing.
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met. This makes me wonder why, exactly, Claire and Marten doing whatever is such a big kerfuffle in comparison in some people's minds. When it comes right down to it, Claire is 24, Marten is 26, and whatever they want to do, or how soon they want to do it is up to them to decide as consenting, sober adults.
Sorry to break the plot twist chain, I just wanted to comment in response to some of the people who are musing about it being "too soon" for Claire and Marten to do.. whatever they might be doing.
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met. This makes me wonder why, exactly, Claire and Marten doing whatever is such a big kerfuffle in comparison in some people's minds. When it comes right down to it, Claire is 24, Marten is 26, and whatever they want to do, or how soon they want to do it is up to them to decide as consenting, sober adults.
There's something else that I'd like to add as well, speculating about whether or not they should get together based on the stage that they're at in their relationship is one thing (although it's still no one's business but Claire and Marten's), but the comments about Claire's trans* status apparently having something to do with it really bother me. The only people who are in any place to make decisions based on that are Claire herself, and by extension Marten, if indeed they are going further than cuddles. Other people discussing it just seems a little bit too close to a direct discussion about Claire's body, which if I'm not mistaken, is not allowed on these forums, since it's not only rude to discuss another person's body, but also potentially offensive to trans* people who may be reading the comments (and no, as has been stated over and over, just because Claire is fictional does not make it okay).
Case and point, I'm trans*, and those comments are offending me, since frankly, how I navigate my own love life around, or in concordance with my body are my own business, and I would certainly not be pleased if a bunch of people I didn't know felt that it was their right to discuss what I should or shouldn't be doing at any point in time. I doubt that Claire would feel any differently.
And I know that some of you are well meaning, but believe me, it is still possible to be offensive even if you're coming from a place of concern. Again, it shouldn't be anyone's business, nor concern what or when Claire does whatever she does with whoever she chooses to do it with (not because of her trans* status, at least). :/
Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. nothankyou
Still-further-plot-twist: Without realizing it, they've wandered into Jimbo's apartment.
Just going by avatars, I'd expect AprilArcus to be the one saying this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2590).
Don't let it fool you. Hannelore in the streets, Sven in the sheets.
<snip>
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met. This makes me wonder why, exactly, Claire and Marten doing whatever is such a big kerfuffle in comparison in some people's minds.
<snip>
The only people who are in any place to make decisions based on that are Claire herself, and by extension Marten, if indeed they are going further than cuddles.
So are you all this binary and unforgiving in your real-life relationships?
If you had read my post, you'd have seen that my interpretation of it being 'too soon' was that I recalled Claire having not had any relationship experience previously (her unique situation being entirely secondary to that fact), inferring that usually people who are are new to relationships in general don't usually jump into it nearly as quickly. The -only- reason I made any reference pertaining to Claire's trans* status was as a potential reason for her to be more apprehensive about the inevitable next step in the relationship, as it pertains to there requiring to be an extra layer of trust as opposed to a standard cis relationship. I think you're doing (mostly) everyone a disservice here by automatically assuming that the 'too soon' comments are directly correlated to her status.
In regards to Marten and his experiences, all parties involved were no strangers to relationships, and specially, those of a sexual nature. It makes absolute sense that they wouldn't have apprehension about the activities involved, as opposed to a virgin (-any- virgin. I don't want words put in my mouth.).
I think context, and intent to insult really should be taken more into consideration before getting one's choice of undergarments into a bunch. Sometimes people don't know the exact way to approach a discussion, and it seems like no matter how careful someone is, -someone- (not pointing fingers) is going to get offended. It seems far more constructive to gently correct them, rather than chastise them as a whole - making them feel like terrible people for making honest mistakes has a habit of getting people's dander up, rather than wanting to make them want to learn the proper way to address things.
Edit: I get that you'd be offended, and it sucks that you feel that way. But I think that I can say that most of us that do screw up, do so out of a place of ignorance (of the non-willful kind) and naivete, more so than any deliberate lack of respect. I get a bit grumpy when it feels like I'm being accused of being offensive when it wasn't my intent, but hopefully I've better explained my earlier post. For me, I know I react better to gentle education. But I also appreciate that some required the not-so-soft touch of a clue-by-four.
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met. This makes me wonder why, exactly, Claire and Marten doing whatever is such a big kerfuffle in comparison in some people's minds. When it comes right down to it, Claire is 24, Marten is 26, and whatever they want to do, or how soon they want to do it is up to them to decide as consenting, sober adults.
Prediction for tomorrow:
An unresponsive Pintsize, who has been placed in Marten's room for safekeeping, wakes up.
"Oh man, what happe-"
...
:0
...
:D
...
*record*
Prediction for tomorrow:
An unresponsive Pintsize, who has been placed in Marten's room for safekeeping, wakes up.
"Oh man, what happe-"
...
:0
...
:D
...
*record*
I wonder what place it would have on the AnthroPC-only message board (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=639)
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met. This makes me wonder why, exactly, Claire and Marten doing whatever is such a big kerfuffle in comparison in some people's minds. When it comes right down to it, Claire is 24, Marten is 26, and whatever they want to do, or how soon they want to do it is up to them to decide as consenting, sober adults.
And for it being Claire's first relationship, I present counter-argument Marigold/Dale. They had anime weekend, CoD makeout session, and Marigold having a medical emergency that torpedoed their first official date. I remember a lot of jokes about pancakes, but nowhere near as much criticism of it being "too soon". In fact it was specifically addressed in-comic with Marigold asking Momo for reassurance and Momo telling her that it's her business and no one else's when she chose to start having sex with her boyfriend (obviously, boyfriend gets a say, but I seriously doubt Dale was judging Marigold there). Marten's shown time and again that he's respectful of consent and that if his partner says she wants to wait, he'll wait.
I can understand the argument that Claire's first time should be, if not something special, at least about her and Marten instead of Marten needing comfort after dealing with Faye. But not having relationship experience doesn't mean not being able to say "I'm not ready" or "We shouldn't do this now."
That actually made me laugh. Now my co-workers think I'm a weirdo :psyduck:Prediction for tomorrow:
An unresponsive Pintsize, who has been placed in Marten's room for safekeeping, wakes up.
"Oh man, what happe-"
...
:0
...
:D
...
*record*
I wonder what place it would have on the AnthroPC-only message board (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=639)
I doubt that they're much interested in human gland-games, except for the weirdos on /h/.
Oh please. First GF and I had our first date (which was also our first meeting ever) and were almost cuddling by the end of it.
For our third date one week later, I took her up to a really romantic place, and viscious makeouts were had.
Were we moving too fast? Too bad.
Oh please. First GF and I had our first date (which was also our first meeting ever) and were almost cuddling by the end of it.I was referring to 'too soon', in comparison to my own personal pace (which is akin to that of a tortoise on barbituates), not as any overt criticism. To each their own.
For our third date one week later, I took her up to a really romantic place, and viscious makeouts were had.
Were we moving too fast? Too bad.
To be fair, that one struck me as a bit rushed, too :wink:
Hannah, you do have forum rules acknowledging the same things you've said: https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27423.msg1205549.html#msg1205549 . Among other things, my post there was an attempt to short-circuit some of the Far Too Frequently Asked Questions that even the ambassadorial types get tired of seeing.
Please do PM with suggestions for any changes you see as necessary or advisable.
She doesn't look that happy approaching the door and after that it's hard to know since she's all obscured by make-outs.
To soon/Finally: I think that kind if intimacy between them is usual at that point, though I would have preferred it if Claire had the initiative. She doesn't look that happy approaching the door and after that it's hard to know since she's all obscured by make-outs.
I read Claire's face as worried, foremost. Worried about Marten, about what mood he might be in with that kind of stress and responsibility, whether he would be receptive to her.
I see that type of kiss all the time in comics, but never in real life. Like, it's an awkward way to kiss someone.
Look like we're being set up for the typical "Friday comis relief" strip tomorrow...
Personally, I'd like to see the Pintsize equivalent of Faye's intermittent blackout sequence from earlier this week:
Black screen... Panicked Winslow... Black screen... examined by Marigold... black screen... trying to grab Momo's behind... black screen... being punched by May... black screen... hand plugged to some kind of device... black screen...
It would be kind of cool if friday's strip is Faye turning Pintsize back on, followed by the two of them awkwardly trying to have a conversation while ignoring the obvious sex sounds coming from Marten's room... :-DPintsize ignoring sex sounds? In your dreams...
I'm not questioning her consent. Both of them have shown (or said) that they want. This comic would have benefited from a few words, since I can't imagine showing up at my partner's house after such an incident and not asking about their and their friend's well-being, and this comic rushes through - open door/make-outs/disappearing in a bedroom.To soon/Finally: I think that kind if intimacy between them is usual at that point, though I would have preferred it if Claire had the initiative. She doesn't look that happy approaching the door and after that it's hard to know since she's all obscured by make-outs.
How do we know that she didn't take the initiative (or at least consent willingly) in turning up at Marten's place?
I think her "unhappy" look is more nervousness at the prospect of possibly venturing into uncharted waters, but it's pretty clear from previous comics (like the "ice cream" incident) what she wants.
Anyway, as others have said, we don't really know what they are going to do, and at some level of detail we don't need to.
Also nobody's mentioned yet that Claire and Marten have had a planned date interrupted by Faye's hospital incident, so there's some frustration and a bit of catching up to do.I read Claire's face as worried, foremost. Worried about Marten, about what mood he might be in with that kind of stress and responsibility, whether he would be receptive to her.
Yes, that too.
Edited to add:
Look at Claire's body language in panels 2 and 3. Someone commented on her hands in panel 2 - she's maybe not quite sure how happy Marten is to see her, and he's the one that made the first move. Followed by panel 3: arms thrown round his neck as nervous Claire relaxes, reassured that he wants her.
akin to that of a tortoise on barbituatesHas anyone ever actually tested how tortoises respond to barbiturates?
That had nothing to do with taking it slow per se; it was (legitimate) concern for his ability to give consent given his intoxicated state.
Well, you're not Claire. She takes it slow - she didn't kiss Marten because he was drunk, she obviously wanted make-outs but went for Ice-cream..
akin to that of a tortoise on barbituatesHas anyone ever actually tested how tortoises respond to barbiturates?
akin to that of a tortoise on barbituates
Has anyone ever actually tested how tortoises respond to barbiturates?
akin to that of a tortoise on barbituatesHas anyone ever actually tested how tortoises respond to barbiturates?
Sometimes a couple just..... clicks.
This comic would have benefited from a few words, since I can't imagine showing up at my partner's house after such an incident and not asking about their and their friend's well-being, and this comic rushes through - open door/make-outs/disappearing in a bedroom.
It's been hinted for a while that Claire wants to push the relationship in that direction (but has anxiety about whether it's too fast), but I don't think Marten is in the mood for sex right now. (Note that I didn't say that he's not in the mood for sex with Claire right now, but that he's not in the mood for it period.)
Alternative Friday strip: Yelling Bird!
This comic would have benefited from a few words, since I can't imagine showing up at my partner's house after such an incident and not asking about their and their friend's well-being, and this comic rushes through - open door/make-outs/disappearing in a bedroom.I think we can take it that Marten has phoned Claire off-screen, judging by her expression in the first panel.
my guess is that it is the same day as he might have been stopping at home during his lunch break or only working a half day.
If that were so then why would Marten have bags under his eyes? I'm thinking Faye did a full overnight at the hospital, and was probably not released until the following afternoon. (I've been in hospital; they are not that swift at releasing you once you've been admitted.) Assuming the schism happened on a Friday morning, then this is Saturday evening.
You know, I'm against the lo-words thing Jeph's been doing because it slows down the pacing and introduces a lot of ambiguity. But I'm totally for the recent no-words strips. I think they work just fine.
Also, the end is near. :oops: Theres a "LIKE" Button in this forum now. :-\Yes, but how can I tell if anybody likes my own posts? Also, can we have a "DISLIKE" button, please?
Sorry to break the plot twist chain, I just wanted to comment in response to some of the people who are musing about it being "too soon" for Claire and Marten to do.. whatever they might be doing.
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met.
There's something else that I'd like to add as well, speculating about whether or not they should get together based on the stage that they're at in their relationship is one thing (although it's still no one's business but Claire and Marten's), but the comments about Claire's trans* status, and whether or not it should affect what's about to happen behind that door really bother me. The only people who are in any place to make decisions based on that are Claire herself, and by extension Marten, if indeed they are going further than cuddles. Other people discussing it just seems a little bit too close to a direct discussion about Claire's body, which if I'm not mistaken, is not allowed on these forums, since it's not only rude, but also potentially offensive to trans* people who may be reading the comments (and no, as has been stated over and over, just because Claire is fictional does not make it okay).
Also, the end is near. :oops: Theres a "LIKE" Button in this forum now. :-\Yes, but how can I tell if anybody likes my own posts? Also, can we have a "DISLIKE" button, please?
I should note that I liked your post to show how you can tell if anyone liked your post, not to agree with the suggestion for a "dislike" button.Also, the end is near. :oops: Theres a "LIKE" Button in this forum now. :-\Yes, but how can I tell if anybody likes my own posts? Also, can we have a "DISLIKE" button, please?
Carl-E answered the second question - you can tell if someone liked your post in the same place the message is for people liking other people's posts. I liked yours to show you.Also, the end is near. :oops: Theres a "LIKE" Button in this forum now. :-\Yes, but how can I tell if anybody likes my own posts? Also, can we have a "DISLIKE" button, please?
Yes, but how can I tell if anybody likes my own posts?
Sorry to break the plot twist chain, I just wanted to comment in response to some of the people who are musing about it being "too soon" for Claire and Marten to do.. whatever they might be doing.Speaking of offensive...
It occurs to me that no where near the same number of people seemed to be as critical or concerned about Marten having a one night stand a while back with Tai's friend, nor were there as many complaints about him hooking up with Padma so soon after they'd met. This makes me wonder why, exactly, Claire and Marten doing whatever is such a big kerfuffle in comparison in some people's minds. When it comes right down to it, Claire is 24, Marten is 26, and whatever they want to do, or how soon they want to do it is up to them to decide as consenting, sober adults.
There's something else that I'd like to add as well, speculating about whether or not they should get together based on the stage that they're at in their relationship is one thing (although it's still no one's business but Claire and Marten's), but the comments about Claire's trans* status, and whether or not it should affect what's about to happen behind that door really bother me. The only people who are in any place to make decisions based on that are Claire herself, and by extension Marten, if indeed they are going further than cuddles. Other people discussing it just seems a little bit too close to a direct discussion about Claire's body, which if I'm not mistaken, is not allowed on these forums, since it's not only rude, but also potentially offensive to trans* people who may be reading the comments (and no, as has been stated over and over, just because Claire is fictional does not make it okay).
Case and point, I'm trans*, and those comments are offending me, since frankly, how I navigate my love life around, or in regards to my own body are my own business, and I would certainly not be pleased if a bunch of people I didn't know felt that it was their right to discuss what I should or shouldn't be doing at any point in time. I doubt that Claire would feel any differently.
And I know that some of you are well meaning, but believe me, it is still possible to be offensive even if you're coming from a place of concern. I mean it's sweet that you care, I guess, but again, it isn't, and shouldn't be anyone's business, nor concern what or when Claire does whatever she does with whoever she chooses to do it with, other than Claire herself. :/
Yes, but how can I tell if anybody likes my own posts?
Also, can we have a "DISLIKE" button, please?
I'm of the opinion that the "click" of the door locking in panel 4 is a sign that we will never, ever be told what went on inside that bedroom. Did they or didn't they? It's Schroedinger's Bedroom; they both did and didn't.
Claire's "puppy-dog" expression, raised eyebrows, and body language says to me, in the context of this strip:
"I've decided that you're the guy for me. Here I am. Will you take me? Whatever you want to do is fine."
On the other hand, if I received that expression from a woman in real life, I'd be concerned that there was something wrong that had gobsmacked her, and I'd want to find how I could help her.
(And really...is it that short? Does anyone know about how long they've been "official"?)
My relationship tortoise really -was- fed too many downers, then. That would certainly explain the decade-old corpse that is my love life :psyduck:akin to that of a tortoise on barbituates
Has anyone ever actually tested how tortoises respond to barbiturates?
Probably not well. I understand that reptiles and sedatives go badly together and there is a high probability of fatal side-effects. If I remember correctly, vets consider surgery on a reptile as a last resort.
Wait. what was the second date?
I'm of the opinion that the "click" of the door locking in panel 4 is a sign that we will never, ever be told what went on inside that bedroom. Did they or didn't they? It's Schroedinger's Bedroom; they both did and didn't.
Let's face it, though, if they are having sex, Claire's absolutely going to rub it in Clinton's face that she lost her virginity before he lost his.
Some say that the best time to have sex is the first date. No wondering how he or she is in bed, no long sexual tension period.
In a similar, although MUCH smaller, situation of Marten helping Faye, Dora freaked out. Claire is giving him complete support. That right there is what an awesome relationship is.
Some say that the best time to have sex is the first date. No wondering how he or she is in bed, no long sexual tension period.
I was referring to 'too soon', in comparison to my own personal pace (which is akin to that of a tortoise on barbituates), not as any overt criticism. To each their own.
(How would an anxious person embarking on her first relationship feel if her makeout partner fell asleep?)
This comic would have benefited from a few words, since I can't imagine showing up at my partner's house after such an incident and not asking about their and their friend's well-being, and this comic rushes through - open door/make-outs/disappearing in a bedroom.
FWIW, I'm not sure I'd want my first time with anyone, let alone a virgin, to be when I was dead tired. <snip>
My prediction for tomorrow is that its the following morning. We see Marten kiss Claire goodbye at the door and we have no idea whether they slept together, kissed and cuddled or built a duvet fort together. :p
This comic would have benefited from a few words, since I can't imagine showing up at my partner's house after such an incident and not asking about their and their friend's well-being, and this comic rushes through - open door/make-outs/disappearing in a bedroom.
Fair point, but we still don't really know how much time has elapsed since Faye's collapse: they could have talked about all that on the phone, depiction of which wouldn't have made interesting comic material, other than giving us a clue about what's going on in their minds. If that had happened, no words would be needed now.
I'm sticking with the theory of hastily catching up with lost time after an interrupted (never even started) date.
Some say that the best time to have sex is the first date. No wondering how he or she is in bed, no long sexual tension period.
Yes, but then why bother at all, unless you think sex is the most important thing in a relationship? (No judgment here by the way, you might well think that, and why not).
I missed something?
Damn.
Even the fact that Marten finally had sex with Dora way back was glossed over and only told in retrospect, despite the fact that he never had sex being a running gag in early comics.
Sigh... Why do people focus so much on Claire's anatomy? It really doesn't matter.
Sigh... Why do people focus so much on Claire's anatomy? It really doesn't matter. Claire and Marten are both intelligent enough to figure out something that is mutually satisfactory for both of them. What exactly that might be is not the point. The point is that they feel secure enough with each other to have a sexual relationship.
Sigh... Why do people focus so much on Claire's anatomy? It really doesn't matter.
I'm of the opinion that the "click" of the door locking in panel 4 is a sign that we will never, ever be told what went on inside that bedroom. Did they or didn't they? It's Schroedinger's Bedroom; they both did and didn't.
The problem with the whole "not discussing graphic sexual things" regarding Claire within the strip is Pintsize. It would be totally OOC for him not to say or do some sort of well-meaning but totally inappropriate thing when he finds out. Like I could totally see him getting Marten and Claire matching friendship-bracelets and then when they are both horrified, ask if he picked out the wrong sizes.Well, I suppose that could be a possible reason Marten apparently hasn't rebooted Pintsize yet...
agreed. Honestly, not to be crude, but all anyone needs to engage in sex with anyone else is a mouth and hands.
I have to say, today's comic left me smiling like an idiot.
On a completely different note... IF the rumored timeskip in fact does happen, it's either tomorrow or (more likely) tuesday. Everything is more or less wrapped up enough for that to happen now. I predict pintsize tomorrow.
Sometimes the look on someone's face was enough to let me know they could really use a hug. Comfort first, conversation after. But maybe that's just me.It's not just you. :-)
agreed. Honestly, not to be crude, but all anyone needs to engage in sex with anyone else is a mouth and hands.
I've had the same conversation about The Little Mermaid.
EDIT: And The Doctor.
And honestly, can we really get mad at people for asking? Yes, it's incredibly impolite to ask real people about their sexbits, but these are fictional characters and Claire does represent - however unfairly - the trans figure for a lot of people.
And honestly, can we really get mad at people for asking?
The problem with the whole "not discussing graphic sexual things" regarding Claire within the strip is Pintsize. It would be totally OOC for him not to say or do some sort of well-meaning but totally inappropriate thing when he finds out. Like I could totally see him getting Marten and Claire matching friendship-bracelets, and then when they are both horrified, ask if he picked out the wrong sizes.
Sigh... Why do people focus so much on Claire's anatomy? It really doesn't matter.
I do not think she struggles to remember, but she might be a bit embarrassed letting Marten access her underwear drawer. As for the booby-trap, it obviously is not lethal (or Pintsize would be dead by now), but I would guess it involves copious use of duct tape. With Faye's proven engineering skills, I guess it is very advanced.
Nothing wrong with how Marten/Claire are becoming ... more than friends/co-workers. It's just that Tai/Dora got itself an extra serving of greatness when Tai stepped out of her clumsy-puppy-love persona to try to kick down some of Dora's insecurity wall. In the vernacular of The Site That Will Ruin Your Life, that in my mind was Tai's Moment of Awesome.
There, there. Check out the DISCUSS forum for a better place to sound out these ideas.
In talking about that you're probably better off looking somewhere else or educating yourself :(
In talking about that you're probably better off looking somewhere else or educating yourself :(
Don't make such comments without knowing the situation at hand.
There, there. Check out the DISCUSS forum for a better place to sound out these ideas.
That seems to me more of sweeping the issue under the rug metaphorically rather than addressing it outright. If Jeph really wants to be this progressive, then the forums should be encouraging such debate in a ready forum, not shunting it elsewhere.
That seems to me more of sweeping the issue under the rug metaphorically rather than addressing it outright. If Jeph really wants to be this progressive, then the forums should be encouraging such debate in a ready forum, not shunting it elsewhere.
There, there. Check out the DISCUSS forum for a better place to sound out these ideas.
That seems to me more of sweeping the issue under the rug metaphorically rather than addressing it outright. If Jeph really wants to be this progressive, then the forums should be encouraging such debate in a ready forum, not shunting it elsewhere.In talking about that you're probably better off looking somewhere else or educating yourself :(
Don't make such comments without knowing the situation at hand.
Of course, the world would be better place if the people with money made time to give that money to others.
I wasn't around for all of that, was it really that bad (that would explain the myriad of crossed off names I see on the forums...)?
Of course, that's completely ignoring the obvious issue of Claire being a ginger.
I'm thinking more from a story telling perspective: there wasn't a lot of lead up. I kinda found it jarring....You have read through the archives, right? Like, the first 511 strips?
"Lead up" may appear to be jarring, but it's actually because it tends to be glacial. When one of the icebergs finally fall off the ice shelf, that's when we notice it.
But this - this has kinda been building for a while. We just haven't seen it since the two of them were off holding hands.
OK, back to the comic. I wanted to address some of the comments about what people are - or think they are- seeing, and my interpretation, FWIW.
I wanted to consult Jeph's twitter in case had commented, but I see the twitter feed's been removed from the comic site? Or am I just having trouble with it?
I'm not seeing the twitter feed, either.
Nothing on the twitter feed to warrant discussion really.
Sigh... Why do people focus so much on Claire's anatomy?
This is where I disagree with many of the other posters. I'm pretty sure that's the front door to the apartment. The hinges and knob agree, the point of view has changed to the view from the hallway. Faye's gone to bed, they have the place to themselves, and I think he's just "welcomed" her in.
By the art, the only possible explanation is that is his bedroom door. Or possibly another door in their small apartment that we have never seen (I don't think we've ever seen the wall the the left of the couch), but that option seems unlikely. (maybe its the rumpus room).(https://queenbookbuff.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/where-the-wild-things-are1.jpg)
I'm honestly surprised by how many people here have complained about Claire and Marten's "saccharine" relationship.
It's a different kind of relationshio Marten's ever had, yes. I say let the man be happy, I don't think we've ever seen him in a relationship that good. Neither has he ever started another relationship without major drama (Dora and Padma). This time, the problem is elsewhere.
In a similar, although MUCH smaller, situation of Marten helping Faye, Dora freaked out. Claire is giving him complete support. That right there is what an awesome relationship is.
Likewise not speaking for everyone on the forum who liked it, but at least for me their relationship rings true in some respects. I've had relationships where I fell irrationally hard for people I knew probably about as well as Claire and Marten know each other (and some where I fell for someone I knew much less than that). In the early going, sometimes it is saccharine, because you're still at the stage where there's things you don't know, and the things that will eventually drive you nuts are still endearingly quirky. They'll have their bumps in the road soon enough, I'd wager. But just like couples in my day-to-day life -- whether they've just gotten together and are still in the honeymoon phase, or they've been together for donkey's years but still haven't forgotten what they love about each other and can still be silly/saccharine/dopey around each other from time to time -- if I see somebody who's happy where they are, with whomever makes 'em happy, I figure why not roll with the punches? Life's too damn short to be serious all the time, or to begrudge someone else whatever happiness, joy, or simple contentment they can find.
Just my $.02 worth.
The hallway does not have chair rail,Panel 1, behind Claire is a chair rail and I'm pretty sure she's standing in the hallway outside the apartment.
I think the way he develops characters is a lot better than his storytelling. Not saying his storytelling is bad or anything, but the strength of QC has always been about the characters to me. They seem real and they're relate-able. When I think about the comic I think, "I can't wait to see what the characters do next" not, "I can't wait to see where the story is going." It's a subtle difference for sure and ultimately leads to Jeph being great at what he does regardless, but I just wanted my opinion on that to be shown (don't throw rocks at me).It's a slice of life comic, so the characters and world-building tend to *make* the story, rather than some epic plot. It's like I could probably outline the whole plot of "Totoro" in one sentence, but it'd be seriously selling the film short. It's the character interactions, and the world that really create the piece.
Pretty sure that's the floor, a piece of molding, and the back wall of the hallway, judging by the ceiling line.The hallway does not have chair rail,Panel 1, behind Claire is a chair rail and I'm pretty sure she's standing in the hallway outside the apartment.
Just because things haven't gone bad does not mean they won't.
Of course, that's completely ignoring the obvious issue of Claire being a ginger.
I hope Marten has his medical insurance up to date, I seem to recall him being a bleeder.
:-D
Marten and Claire were on the first list from strip 2205 to strip 2808. There was a lot to talk about! Marten was Zen and Claire was firey. Claire was driven and Marten was a slacker. Marten was musical and Claire didn't really appreciate his taste. Claire was way into Marten physically and terrified to make a move. Marten was experimenting with casual sex and being miserable about it. They seemed like a good fit on some levels and a bad fit on others, and so it seemed like there was some dramatic potential.$10 says this comes back with a vengeance at some point.
I don't like any of the purely happy, uncomplicated relationships in the strip. Dale/Marigold or Dora/Tai or Penny/Will either. Marten/Faye, Marten/Dora, Faye/Sven, Faye/Angus, even the mostly offscreen Tai/Experiments-in-non-monogamy all feel more interesting to me, because there is both attraction and conflict; push and pull. Witness:These are dynamic relationships. There are two forces in conflict, both strongly felt, and not easily resolved. They produce a lot of interest and drama whenever they are on-panel. Whereas...
- Faye wants Marten but misses her chance with him because she can't get over her fear of rejection and abandonment.
- Dora wants Marten but can't convince herself that he wants her back.
- Marten likes Dora but can't cope with her hot personality and is sort of just going with the flow instead of actively seeking out what he wants.
- Faye craves Sven physically but can't stand his personality.
- Faye establishes a connection with Angus that is superficially pleasurable and emotionally distant enough to be in her comfort zone, but not actually safe or fulfilling in any way.
- Sven falls for Faye in a way that completely contradicts everything he knows about his role in relationships.
- Tai craves monogamy, but pushes herself to be in open relationships because it's the cultural norm she's immersed in.
These just don't hold up. They are one-note; there are no layers or contradictions or anything to dig through as a reader.
- Wil wants Penny and he just needs to get over himself and ask her out.
- Penny wants Wil but doesn't respect him unless he has a job, so he gets a job, and now she respects him.
- Marigold wants Dale and Dale wants Marigold and Momo sets them up and they fucked like rabbits.
- Tai wants Dora. Tai asks Dora out. They have a lot in common and get along great.
Marten and Claire were on the first list from strip 2205 to strip 2808. There was a lot to talk about! Marten was Zen and Claire was firey. Claire was driven and Marten was a slacker. Marten was musical and Claire didn't really appreciate his taste. Claire was way into Marten physically and terrified to make a move. Marten was experimenting with casual sex and being miserable about it. They seemed like a good fit on some level and a bad fit on others, and so it seemed like there was some dramatic potential.
Since 2808, all the tension has gone out of the relationship. Claire seems to have lost most of her personaity. All pull, no push. I don't object to the relationship on principal because I don't think it needs to be written that way, but that's what we're getting so far.
Quite frankly, I think a lot of you here are trying to overanalise things.
Yeah, I'd like for them to be happy and to gain something positive from this relationship, but at the same time, I just can't see them lasting.Marten and Claire were on the first list from strip 2205 to strip 2808. There was a lot to talk about! Marten was Zen and Claire was firey. Claire was driven and Marten was a slacker. Marten was musical and Claire didn't really appreciate his taste. Claire was way into Marten physically and terrified to make a move. Marten was experimenting with casual sex and being miserable about it. They seemed like a good fit on some levels and a bad fit on others, and so it seemed like there was some dramatic potential.$10 says this comes back with a vengeance at some point.
Quite frankly, I think a lot of you here are trying to overanalise things.
Quite frankly, I think a lot of you here are trying to overanalise things.
Yep.Pretty sure that's the floor, a piece of molding, and the back wall of the hallway, judging by the ceiling line.The hallway does not have chair rail,Panel 1, behind Claire is a chair rail and I'm pretty sure she's standing in the hallway outside the apartment.
I think the way he develops characters is a lot better than his storytelling. Not saying his storytelling is bad or anything, but the strength of QC has always been about the characters to me. They seem real and they're relate-able. When I think about the comic I think, "I can't wait to see what the characters do next" not, "I can't wait to see where the story is going." It's a subtle difference for sure and ultimately leads to Jeph being great at what he does regardless, but I just wanted my opinion on that to be shown (don't throw rocks at me).
I thought that bandicoots were canonically best at transporting people through hell.
What's wrong with over analyzing? Making simple things complicated can be a ton o' fun sometimes. :P
Forget gray hair. It's 'break out the anti-anxiety meds and anti-depressants' for me :psyduck:What's wrong with over analyzing? Making simple things complicated can be a ton o' fun sometimes. :P
I can understand and appreciate this when it comes casual interactions... but when it comes to dealing with the public at a professional capacity, complicated can turn hair gray.
Forget gray hair. It's 'break out the anti-anxiety meds and anti-depressants' for me :psyduck:What's wrong with over analyzing? Making simple things complicated can be a ton o' fun sometimes. :P
I can understand and appreciate this when it comes casual interactions... but when it comes to dealing with the public at a professional capacity, complicated can turn hair gray.
There's nothing from preventing any of these relationships from going sideways. Clinton would obviously be a potential thorn in the the side of Claireten, and with Dora/Tai, it still may be in the "honeymoon period". Dora still has her control issues, even if she's working on them.
I think the Tai and Dora drama seeds have been planted when she didn't tell her about Sven. Tai being a escape from her life instead of part of it.
I think the Tai and Dora drama seeds have been planted when she didn't tell her about Sven. Tai being a escape from her life instead of part of it.
It's been a hundred strips since then! I'm ready for the other shoe to drop.
I suspect that if/when we ever do see friction between Claire and Marten for whatever reason, she'll be all kinds of assertive, and possibly a little bratty, which will no doubt collide with Marten's chillness.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Gawds, nudity and sexy times and it won't fucking load? Whyyyyyyyyy?
Eerie flashbacks to my first time.
Also, she was wearing pink shorts under her dress?
Also notice the little hair twirl in panel four.
In my case it's cause for hermitismForget gray hair. It's 'break out the anti-anxiety meds and anti-depressants' for me :psyduck:What's wrong with over analyzing? Making simple things complicated can be a ton o' fun sometimes. :PI can understand and appreciate this when it comes casual interactions... but when it comes to dealing with the public at a professional capacity, complicated can turn hair gray.
Nows not a good time to bring things down but.... what if they forgot protection? And all the stores are closed?
OOOOHHHH NOOOOOOO.
Nows not a good time to bring things down but.... what if they forgot protection? And all the stores are closed?
OOOOHHHH NOOOOOOO.
*Throws more rocks*
Nows not a good time to bring things down but.... what if they forgot protection? And all the stores are closed?There's plenty they can do without any protection. As well as that most guys (and quite a few women) these days usually have a box or something in their rooms. It's not like stores sell contraceptives one at a time.
OOOOHHHH NOOOOOOO.
Eerie flashbacks to my first time.
Also, she was wearing pink shorts under her dress?
M: Uh, maybe this was a mistake.
M: Would you be opposed to losing 10 pounds?
M: Listen, I gotta go.
C: This is your apartment!
M: Yeah, but Faye made me ditch the booze.
How that last panel could have gone down.QuoteM: Uh, maybe this was a mistake.QuoteM: Would you be opposed to losing 10 pounds?QuoteM: Listen, I gotta go.
C: This is your apartment!
M: Yeah, but Faye made me ditch the booze.
Eerie flashbacks to my first time.
Also, she was wearing pink shorts under her dress?
Gotta play it safe. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2392)
Careful! There are admins and mods here, on the lookout for excessive squeeing.
The floor? It's above Claire's hip. It would have to be very far away or the camera angle would have to be from the ceiling above Marten's head.Pretty sure that's the floor, a piece of molding, and the back wall of the hallway, judging by the ceiling line.The hallway does not have chair rail,Panel 1, behind Claire is a chair rail and I'm pretty sure she's standing in the hallway outside the apartment.
Careful! There are admins and mods here, on the lookout for excessive squeeing.
Anyone else looking at that picture of Claire from behind with her hair down and thinking she could do an AWESOME Cosplay of Starfire from Teen Titans?
It's established that he had some around while with Dora, there's no reason to suppose it's not still there.
Well, not nothing, I guess. Marten's Good Guy personality all but ensures protective measures are at hand.
You know, I almost hope that they don't actually shag right now. Not for any reason that has been brought up before, but because I still fondly remember a night with a former gf, one of the earlier ones we spent together, where she and I slept together nekkid (it was before my "first time", sex-wise), there was plenty of snogging and fondling, but it was something I will always remember fondly. I kinda want this to be similar, where they're just completely close with each other.
It's established that he had some around while with Dora, there's no reason to suppose it's not still there.
Well, not nothing, I guess. Marten's Good Guy personality all but ensures protective measures are at hand.
The depiction of Claire here is evocative of Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, at least to me.
Someone saw this and is already drawing it without the censors.
You know, I almost hope that they don't actually shag right now. Not for any reason that has been brought up before, but because I still fondly remember a night with a former gf, one of the earlier ones we spent together, where she and I slept together nekkid (it was before my "first time", sex-wise), there was plenty of snogging and fondling, but it was something I will always remember fondly. I kinda want this to be similar, where they're just completely close with each other.
Not to interrupt the dawwws and squeees (as if I could halt that tsunami), but I guess this is what is actually going to happen, solely going by Marten's eyes in the last panel.
There will naked sleeping, but no sexy shenanigans. (At least not this night)
As a fortyish man I feel no shame in unleashing a SQUEE for today's comic.
If it was chair rail on the hallway wall, it would be higher up than the chair rail you can see on the left side of the interior in that frame due to the perspective. It is lower, that is baseboard.The floor? It's above Claire's hip. It would have to be very far away or the camera angle would have to be from the ceiling above Marten's head.Pretty sure that's the floor, a piece of molding, and the back wall of the hallway, judging by the ceiling line.The hallway does not have chair rail,Panel 1, behind Claire is a chair rail and I'm pretty sure she's standing in the hallway outside the apartment.
Welp, my curiosity got the best of me. Self-imposed month-long QC hiatus lasted two weeks, but I think I came back at the right time. On one hand, I found the time to read all of Dumbing of Age to distract myself. On the other...where the hell did these "like" buttons come from?I think he pointedly remembered to 'forget' to power Pintsize back up until later.
Eh, whatever. Happy Arbor Day 2003, everyone! Although, did Marten even remember to revive Pintsize? Someone else is going to have to get the banner...
I'm getting a strong urge to post that xkcd where a woman builds a pillow fort, and is accused by her friend for being "juvenile", but said friend points out that her boyfriend was in there.I had that same thought, but we may have been posting that comic too often.
I think he pointedly remembered to 'forget' to power Pintsize back up until later.
On all the discussions of building a duvet fort... Do you really think Marten is the type of dude to own a duvet?Yes. Probably gifted to him by Veronica.
On all the discussions of building a duvet fort... Do you really think Marten is the type of dude to own a duvet?Yes. Probably gifted to him by Veronica.
That I can buy.On all the discussions of building a duvet fort... Do you really think Marten is the type of dude to own a duvet?Yes. Probably gifted to him by Veronica.
https://xkcd.com/219/
How that last panel could have gone down.QuoteM: Uh, maybe this was a mistake.QuoteM: Would you be opposed to losing 10 pounds?QuoteM: Listen, I gotta go.
C: This is your apartment!
M: Yeah, but Faye made me ditch the booze.
M: Wow, carpet DOES match the drapes. Just...wow.Warning - while you were typing 40 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Perspective on Marten in panel five is kind of confusing me but I don't care because I really like it.I think Jeph forgot to finish drawing the bed.
The whole thing, I mean, not just panel 5.
Food for thought: a canopy bed is just a blanket fort for grownups.
The floor? It's above Claire's hip. It would have to be very far away or the camera angle would have to be from the ceiling above Marten's head.Pretty sure that's the floor, a piece of molding, and the back wall of the hallway, judging by the ceiling line.The hallway does not have chair rail,Panel 1, behind Claire is a chair rail and I'm pretty sure she's standing in the hallway outside the apartment.
And then the forums exploded.
And yet, the ceiling line says otherwise. Eh. I still stand by what I said before.
It took every single ounce of my willpower to keep my squee internal.
On the other...where the hell did these "like" buttons come from?
How that last panel could have gone down.QuoteM: Uh, maybe this was a mistake.QuoteM: Would you be opposed to losing 10 pounds?QuoteM: Listen, I gotta go.
C: This is your apartment!
M: Yeah, but Faye made me ditch the booze.
M: Damn, you are really freckly!
This. I like this much more than the previous date Marten/Claire sequences.
This has risk, substance, closure, and moves the plot forward.
Welp. They're frick fracking.
Kinda wish they weren't. :| Marten's not in a good headspace to be banging right now.
A lot more risque than we're used to.I didn't notice any of that. What I did wonder was why Claire was wearing pink slacks under her blue dress. Odd choice, that.
Actually, Jeph seems to have had a little bit of trouble with the art. Panels 3, 5 and 6 are distressingly wrong. Marten's face is wickedly asymmetrical, Claire's positioning and dimensions (panel three doesn't look hunched over, it makes her look like a pubescent midget, and the expression doesn't help) panel five Marten looks like he's levitating into a greenscreen
Panels 1, 2 and 4, though, are, much like Claire herself, absolutely beautiful.
Warning - while you were typing 3 people were more forgiving than you were. You monster.
You should see me at work, when a customer tries to futilely argue about specifications of products we sell, based on what the guy who happened to work in the electronics section of Walmart that day told them :-D It's like I'm OCD about shit like that - incapable of letting it go :psyduck:And yet, the ceiling line says otherwise. Eh. I still stand by what I said before.
I'm honesty not sure why both of us have continued in this line of making sure that there is no handrail out there, considering its now been proven that the second door was almost certainly his bedroom door and we were right.
I guess its that desire to be right on the internet. Because being wrong on the internet is the worst :P.
Welp. They're frick fracking.
Kinda wish they weren't. :| Marten's not in a good headspace to be banging right now.
How do you know that?
The art itself just seems rushed in a lot of the panels.A lot more risque than we're used to.I didn't notice any of that. What I did wonder was why Claire was wearing pink slacks under her blue dress. Odd choice, that.
Actually, Jeph seems to have had a little bit of trouble with the art. Panels 3, 5 and 6 are distressingly wrong. Marten's face is wickedly asymmetrical, Claire's positioning and dimensions (panel three doesn't look hunched over, it makes her look like a pubescent midget, and the expression doesn't help) panel five Marten looks like he's levitating into a greenscreen
Panels 1, 2 and 4, though, are, much like Claire herself, absolutely beautiful.
Warning - while you were typing 3 people were more forgiving than you were. You monster.
There's a genuine sweetness to this that doesn't feel over the top or corny, so I too really like it.
Welp. They're frick fracking.
Kinda wish they weren't. :| Marten's not in a good headspace to be banging right now.
You forgot this one:QuoteM: Damn, you are really freckly!
Welp. They're frick fracking.
Kinda wish they weren't. :| Marten's not in a good headspace to be banging right now.
You know people handle stuff differently. Just because Marten is ready to pursue sexy times with Claire doesn't mean he's not thinking about the shit storm that just happened, it just means that he's not letting that dominate his thoughts right now. I think there was a time when a mopey Marten would have had no interest in make outs at this point, but he's come a long way.
Thoughts at random:
- Not that I'd have expected this to be played for laughs, I'm glad that Jeph sqeeeeee -- ahem, squeezed -- some emotional heft into this one, between Claire's vulnerability and trust, and Marten's bleary-eyed acceptance.
- Speaking of XKCD, if the last panel had been Marten's room as a ball pit, that would've been just about perfect.
- What's up with Marten's face in a couple of those panels? Those are faces Marty Feldman would look at and go, "What the fuck?"
- I'll say it again: Claire is simply adorable.
You forgot this one:QuoteM: Damn, you are really freckly!
After Marten's "modification" of Dora's tattoo, I wonder if he might try something similar with Claire's freckles. I can just picture Monday's strip showing the two of them talking at the library... Emily walks over and wonders why Claire has Orion on one shoulder and Ursa Major on the other. :claireface:
Warning: While you were typing, eleventy billion new posts were posted. You may wish to... oh, never mind.
Emily walks over and wonders why Claire has Orion on one shoulder and Ursa Major on the other.
QUESTION: What mood music (assuming he'd put on some mood music) would Marten choose for this encounter? Some older indie that might help Claire get at ease I'm thinking. Cat Power?
Fascinating.To be fair, it's been hinted - most of the time, outright commented on - that Faye drinks to much, probably a dozen times or more throughout the comic's run. Unless you're only referring to the breakup in general?
Has no one noticed that the date arc was effectively filler? Perhaps filler is the wrong word. Let's call it padding.
Jeph established the romance. He then disestablished Faye and Angus. He then established Faye's depression. Then hinted that she was drinking too much. Each jump to Marten and Claire spaced out the progression from Sad panda to plastered panda.
QUESTION: What mood music (assuming he'd put on some mood music) would Marten choose for this encounter? Some older indie that might help Claire get at ease I'm thinking. Cat Power?
Fumbling Towards Ecstasy
I was 27 though, and Claire seems quite a bit youngerShe's 24.
I was 27 though, and Claire seems quite a bit youngerShe's 24.
We're rapidly getting close to comic 2900, and comics divided by 100 seem to often have some major plot development....
I don't know. On the one hand, squeeeeeeeeeeeee! On the other hand, I just don't find today's panel realistic at all. Yeah sure, it's every transwoman's (mine included) dream scenario where you find someone you have feelings for and they can instantly accept you physically, but this scene? I mean, maybe Claire doesn't have dysphoria to the extent that I do, but I can never ever ever ever ever (x47^8) picture myself doing what Claire did here, no matter how much I trusted the person I was with. "This is me?" I just think it's cringey. So far I've loved Clarten because it's had the sweetness factor but with that necessary dose of realism, where Claire's insecurities (do we need to talk about this, this, and this?) and Martin's enthusiasm have been a nice blend. But this strip is a little too sunshine and rainbows for me to swallow.
And then this totally, intensely awkward record-scratch where she stops the flow of foreplay and suddenly they are having a completely different conversation entirely. Why does she choose to undress herself in this kind of prosaic, unsexy way instead of inviting him to undress her?
What is she doing at panel 2? Unmaking her hair and her bra one-handedly, at the same time?Some women undo bra straps that way. I prefer to do the hands-around-the-sides method. -I- can't personally pull of that move, but then again, I've got some bigger boobs going on (inevitably leading to the clasp being farther down my back), and I'm not as flexible as I used to be.
If so, mad props to her for her coordination - I know I couldn't do this without an extensive amount of training.
It's consistent with Claire being still afraid of rejection, and taking charge of the situation so that if she was rejected at least it would be on her own terms. I'm not explaining this well.
I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR.
This way, he puts it on an equal footing with any of the other relationships that he's shown while at the same time maintaining the position that Claire's private parts should remain private.
It's consistent with Claire being still afraid of rejection, and taking charge of the situation so that if she was rejected at least it would be on her own terms. I'm not explaining this well.
Jeph never shows private parts when he shows characters having sex. I don't think this is really a sex scene at all. It like, deliberately pivots out of sexy mode before showing us nudity.
That does kinda bug me too. I mean, Marten has done a complete turnaround of personality from mopey, somewhat self-centered, and socially awkward to this suave guy who knows exactly what to say and do in his new relationship to make her swoon and feel comfortable, and the only real change seems to be that he's now dating Claire.
Just wanted to say I'm a trans-chick and I think the pace could be realistic. I personally was quick to have sex after transitioning, because I felt I had been 'deprived' for so long, not being previously comfortable with my body. Making up for lost time I suppose would be fairly accurate.
Am I the only one that thinks a girl (or anyone I guess, I just happen to like girls) acting like that is kinda sexy? Am I the weird one? Everyone seems to be saying that it's not, however cute they think it is.
You know, you could say that it's a kind of equality that Jeph handles Claire sexytimes the same way he handles everyone else's sexytimes.
You know, you could say that it's a kind of equality that Jeph handles Claire sexytimes the same way he handles everyone else's sexytimes.
Also, we need a word that combines squee and daaaaaaaaang, but I can't figure out a portmanteau that doesn't sound really weird.
Am I the only one that thinks a girl (or anyone I guess, I just happen to like girls) acting like that is kinda sexy? Am I the weird one? Everyone seems to be saying that it's not, however cute they think it is.
I agree, so if you are weird, I'm weird as well.
There's definitely a certain appeal to how she's 'baring all' in this strip. And I'm not just talking about physically, here.
Also, she was wearing pink shorts under her dress?That was my first thought too. Or Jeph forgot that she was wearing a dress in the previous strip. As for the bra-removal technique, I think Jeph's idea definitely is that she is doing it one-handed while also undoing her hair. Claire has a lot of hair... The whole strip is very nicely drawn. Claire's body-language is spot-on, I think. And look how exhausted-Marten in the first panel becomes inspired-Marten by the last (though he has bags under his eyes, which oddly he does not in the first).
Being undressed by someone else is shameful. Like the phantom having his mask ripped off.
Undressing herself, assuring herself at each step that it was her own choice is different. In the last moment she's still _naked_ rather than nude but every step up to that point was hers alone.
I'm also not sure how this can be interpreted as anything other than a sex scene, although if you find it unsexy that's a valid opinion.
I think also from a character perspective its important that the way she undresses here is more about her needs than his, which is something that I know some people felt was lacking from the previous comic.
Why does she choose to undress herself in this kind of prosaic, unsexy way instead of inviting him to undress her?
I like today's strip. Also: squeee. :)
Still, I guess Jeph will be careful drawing or describing Claire/Marten in a sexual context (like he did with Sven/Faye (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1198) or Sven/Gina Riversmith (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1334)). I guess Claire and Marten are fully clothed if we get a peek behind the bedroom door, but the most probable scenario is Marten and Claire coming out of the same bedroom door, encountering Faye for breakfast in tomorrow's strip. Whatever happened behind that door, will remain hidden. Faye should make pancakes (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2637). Claire's face will be redder than Grade A Dark Amber maple syrup.Dang. I was wrong again :facepalm:
Sidenote: describing anything as being 'unsexy' is just dumb. Disregarding the experience factor, sexy is in the eye of the beholder in looks, activities, personality and everything else in between.
Sidenote: describing anything as being 'unsexy' is just dumb. Disregarding the experience factor, sexy is in the eye of the beholder in looks, activities, personality and everything else in between.
I just thought it was wrong here, because for one, I found it sexy.... and no, not because she got naked, but the way she went about it. The personality and and mood that's behind a girl acting like that (i.e. flustered, embarrassed, but not incredibly so, etc) has always been attractive to me and I've dated girls who acted very much like that and I always liked it.
It just seems odd the inordinate amount of people commenting that the way she went about this can't be construed as "sexy".
I don't know what you two are talking about, but I sang that to the beat of Fat Bottomed Girls by Queen and it worked out, so that's neat.
Also, we need a word that combines squee and daaaaaaaaang, but I can't figure out a portmanteau that doesn't sound really weird.
I just saw the comic again. Did Jeph go back and color in her eyes in panel 2 after the comic was up?
I just saw the comic again. Did Jeph go back and color in her eyes in panel 2 after the comic was up?
No, your colour blindness was cured by the squeee! :-D
You know, you could say that it's a kind of equality that Jeph handles Claire sexytimes the same way he handles everyone else's sexytimes.
Also, we need a word that combines squee and daaaaaaaaang, but I can't figure out a portmanteau that doesn't sound really weird.
'Squang' just doesn't have the right feel to it...
What's wrong with over analyzing? Making simple things complicated can be a ton o' fun sometimes. :P
The Beast dissipates, torn and scattered by the light. It will return, but in that moment? Victory.
Okay, time for my Next Week Strips I'd Like to See!
MONDAY
A 'couples in bed' strip:
PANEL 1 - PENNY and WIL - They're on separate pillows, not hugging or cuddling but PENNY turned towards WIL in a comfortable way. For some reason, WIL is wearing a hairnet over his moustache;
PANEL 2 - DALE and MARIGOLD in a spoon cuddle;
PANEL 3 - Close up of the side of FAYE's face, staring sleeplessly up at the ceiling with tear-tracks on her cheek
PANEL 4 - DORA, curled up with her knees to her chest, crying, teeth clenched; TAI is hugging DORA from behind and stroking her hair;
PANEL 5 (full width) - MARTEN and CLAIRE under rumpled sheets; CLAIRE tucked up tight under Marten's right arm as he strokes her face with his left hand.
(snip)
I rarely post here, but I just wanted to put this out there...
Damn you Jeph for making me cry!
-signed: person who has been there with a very, very opposite reaction from the other person.
Also, squeeee
I just want to comment on how excellence has been goddamn achieved with Claire's hair. And then move along.
I don't know what you two are talking about, but I sang that to the beat of Fat Bottomed Girls by Queen and it worked out, so that's neat.You poor, poor child.
I just want to comment on how excellence has been goddamn achieved with Claire's hair. And then move along.
Would you call that a blow drive-by comment? :claireface:
...
(K, one hell of a stretch but something called out for a pun. Probably the mention of Claire)
[AFTERGLOW]
Claire: Well, I guess you're not a bicycle.
Marten: Huh?
Claire: You weren't too tired.
:clairedoge:
I just saw the comic again. Did Jeph go back and color in her eyes in panel 2 after the comic was up?
I just want to comment on how excellence has been goddamn achieved with Claire's hair. And then move along.
Would you call that a blow drive-by comment? :claireface:
...
(K, one hell of a stretch but something called out for a pun. Probably the mention of Claire)
[AFTERGLOW]
Claire: Well, I guess you're not a bicycle.
Marten: Huh?
Claire: You weren't too tired.
:clairedoge:
I just want to comment on how excellence has been goddamn achieved with Claire's hair. And then move along.
Would you call that a blow drive-by comment? :claireface:
...
(K, one hell of a stretch but something called out for a pun. Probably the mention of Claire)
[AFTERGLOW]
Claire: Well, I guess you're not a bicycle.
Marten: Huh?
Claire: You weren't too tired.
:clairedoge:
Oh, nice one. I'd suggest we pun in tandem but I lack the wit to do that.
Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph. But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me. Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring. That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).
Okay, time for my Next Week Strips I'd Like to See!
Marten may have done this off-panel. Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph. But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me. Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring. That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).
Anyone else looking at that picture of Claire from behind with her hair down and thinking she could do an AWESOME Cosplay of Starfire from Teen Titans?
I keep thinking Merida, from Brave. How do you feel about tartan, Claire?
Martin gives me the creeps whenever we get a closeup of his eyes now.
[...]
Claire is looking for acceptance of her body, not her face, since Marten knows her face already. This includes her bits, or she wouldn't have taken off her panties. Any straight dude, if he sees his GF naked for the first time, is going to scan her whole body (whether she's trans or cis) and just take it all in.
Marten may have done this off-panel. Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph. But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me. Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring. That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).
As for today's strip, Claire's face is adorable in panel 4. The kind of nervous look, the hair twirl, it really sells the mood. And gotta hand it to Good Guy Marten for knowing just what to say. I feel no shame in adding to the sea of squee on this one.
And just like that, this thread is awesome.
THOUGH IT'S COLD AND LONELY IN NORTHAMPTON TONIIIIIGHT
I CAN SEE PARADIIIIISE FROM THE ANTHROPC'S LIIIIIGHT
Really? Seriously?
http://vimeo.com/93428207 (http://vimeo.com/93428207)
Claire's face in panel 4 is the happiest we've ever seen her.
I think that says all that needs to be said really.
To be honest, I don't think I would have made this comment if someone else had said how great it was that "Marten's eyes never left hers." That made me think about it, and realize it was actually kinda wrong.
Not happy. You might be able to make an argument for giddy or nervous and resolved. Maybe a bit crazy, as in holy s#!t did I just do THAT? She just went all-in and there's nothing to do but look hopeful, be hopeful and see how the cards flop.
[ ... ]Try as I might, I can NOT see either Marten or Claire being very loud during... °O
PANEL 3 - FAYE gesturing with her coffee cup; her expression is teasing
FAYE: "Good. Just one thing: I'm all for the free expression of love, y'know."
PANEL 4 - MARTEN and CLARE are looking at each other and blushing. FAYE, in extreme foreground, is drinking some of her coffee with an expression of righteousness
FAYE: "Just try not to express it for four goddamn loud hours next time!"
[ ... ]
As for today's strip, Claire's face is adorable in panel 4. The kind of nervous look, the hair twirl, it really sells the mood. And gotta hand it to Good Guy Marten for knowing just what to say. I feel no shame in adding to the sea of squee on this one.
I actually don't think it's a case of Marten "knowing what to say". BenRG pointed this out a bit upthread, but it bears repeating - Marten is tired. Marten is close to exhausted. He doesn't have the physical or mental energy to be suave or calculating. Whatever enters his head is what is going to come out of his mouth. He's too tired to be anything but utterly honest. So this isn't some attempt on his part to say the right thing - he says exactly what he thinks, and it happens to be exactly the right thing. Which is why he's Good Guy Marten.
:-o
Wow. Go you two!
And WRT the close analysis of whether Marten actually dared to look at Claire's genitals: for fuck's sake, literally. It's like the overanalysis of Faye's rolling blackout in the ER.
Still, I would have been happy if they had left 'behind closed door' just that. And had Friday Faye coming out into the main room to see Marten and Claire having pancakes. And Marten saying 'You know.. She's right. Your mom's pancakes are much better.'
Honestly, considering everything, particularly given what he's just gone through, in my mind Marten is starting to change from Good Guy Marten to Unrealistically Good Guy Marten. He's not all the way to Marty Stu or Sainthood-level Marten, but he is definitely starting to bridge the gap of believably. I mean when is the last time he's done anything selfish or or wrong or non-heroic in any way?
All of our other QC characters have character flaws, but I have yet to see Marten demonstrate any. In fact, the very reason he and Dora broke up was because he "had to be on his best behavior at all times" and he wasn't getting the same respect.
Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types?
Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?
That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.
Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?
Because this particular group of friends is an open-minded, generally respectful group with decent morals. We don't see the assholes because they don't hang out with them- doesn't mean they don't exist.
Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that. If it were that easy you could just tell every trans person "don't hang out with transphobic people and your problems are all solved." It's great that the main cast here is all open-minded but they will still inadvertently encounter close-minded people in their lives.Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?
Because this particular group of friends is an open-minded, generally respectful group with decent morals. We don't see the assholes because they don't hang out with them- doesn't mean they don't exist.
I think he handles the alcoholism issues fairly well, or at least better than the trans issues, I'll give him that. Although it's really not that dark of a story, as Faye immediately has friends that want to help her recover and she has pretty much zero denial after waking up in the hospital, while in real life many alcoholics are literally on their own because nobody cares if they live or die, and they don't even want to listen to the ones that do care, and they drink away the remainder of their lives because of that. Yes, personal experience here...That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.
We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?
That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.
We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?
Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.
Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.
When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc? To put the occasion in the proper perspective.
I think you missed his point completely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.
And then Marten wakes up from his years long coma, having fallen down the stairs going to the bar in the first comic.
The previous 2890 comics have been Marten attempting to get back to the land of the living.
Marten may have done this off-panel. Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph. But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me. Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring. That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).
Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.
When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc? To put the occasion in the proper perspective.
What the hell? Nobody in this thread is saying anything close to that.
Of course not. But this is a comic that has developed into exploring the foibles of human interaction, primarily in relationships, and in most cases it seems the writer wants to try to represent "issues" that people deal with in real life that might not be written about as much in other fiction. So it's reasonable to ask for those issues to be relevant to the struggles real people face.Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.
Heaven forbid we should seek something other (and/or 'better') than life and gritty realism in our fiction.
When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc? To put the occasion in the proper perspective.
There is a place for aspirational stories as well as realistic stories. Look, we all know the world sucks. But every once in a while it's nice to be reminded that the world doesn't have to suck and could, in fact, be made to suck less than it does. Because if we can't imagine the world being a better place, it never will be.I want the world to be a better place, too. But that doesn't mean it needs to happen easily.
Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.
When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc? To put the occasion in the proper perspective.
What the hell? Nobody in this thread is saying anything close to that.
But it's real, isn't it? It's true. It's "life". And we should acknowledge that, and never forget it, and remind people of it whenever anyone tries to say different, or is in an inappropriately good mood about anything.
[/sarcasm]
I like the fact that if someone came into this not knowing Claire was trans, the comic today would still work. Clearly we have a girl getting nervous in front of a guy for the first time, hoping for his approval, with a hint that she is nervous about her body. That's a universal thing, not a transgender thing. "I hope my partner likes/accepts me." It could just as easily be nervousness about all her freckles, or or small breasts, or that giant mole on her butt the shape of Abraham Lincoln, who knows? The comic still works.
I like the fact that if someone came into this not knowing Claire was trans, the comic today would still work. Clearly we have a girl getting nervous in front of a guy for the first time, hoping for his approval, with a hint that she is nervous about her body. That's a universal thing, not a transgender thing. "I hope my partner likes/accepts me." It could just as easily be nervousness about all her freckles, or or small breasts, or that giant mole on her butt the shape of Abraham Lincoln, who knows? The comic still works.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.
We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?
I think you missed his point competely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types?Oddly enough, when Jeph wants to have discrimination in his comic, he usually parodies it by directing it at AIs (a fictional group that generally will get the reader's sympathy). By doing this, his objective seems to be to pose the question: "If you oppose discrimination against AIs, why do you accept or even support discrimination against [group] in real life?"
- The clothing store manager who refused to even interview May on the ground that she was an AI and he doesn't give jobs to robots;
- The preacher who upset Momo by loudly declaring that AIs are not people because they have no 'souls'.
I would add that Clinton's protective behaviour implies that, even though it has happened off-panel, transgender people still face some discrimination, violence and exploitation and he is hyper-aware of how vulnerable Claire is to this.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?
With that logic, Jeph is also a terrible author for not making Dale get pulled over by cops and treated like differently by a number of the white character, because how dare he include black character and not make a social statement of the injustices of African Americans. And why does he even include robots? They are just machines!
It's pretty easy to get caught up in examination of how the story is told, the framing for a particular situation, the artwork, etc., and I think everyone (including me) has a take on how the story should go or be told/presented, but in the end it's because of the way that Jeph tells it and presents it that keeps me clicking the link in my browser in the morning (or repeatedly pressing F5 in the evening, depending).
Side note: am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?
So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.
Apparently, the only way to know if Claire is trans is for her to tell someone, and she doesn't tell anyone she doesn't already trust. Which is probably why we don't see a lot of transphobia directed at her.
Either that, or, as has been pointed out elsewhere, these characters live in a better world than we do.
Side note: am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?
Of course not. But this is a comic that has developed into exploring the foibles of human interaction, primarily in relationships, and in most cases it seems the writer wants to try to represent "issues" that people deal with in real life that might not be written about as much in other fiction. So it's reasonable to ask for those issues to be relevant to the struggles real people face.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?
Side note: am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?
No, I totally get that... But it's like do we say "the author" instead or use a last name or what. When you look at art of any kindincluding comicsit's only natural to wonder what the artist/author intends and refer to them. It does feel weird to do on a first-name basis, though...
When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc? To put the occasion in the proper perspective.Well my mom always lectured about kids starving in Biafra when I didn't empty my plate fully. I finally looked it up once and it turned out that country stopped existing 45 years ago.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Side note: am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?
There's a rule (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html)against discussing things like that. Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned.
That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord." Also because I think it's hilarious.
There's a rule (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html)against discussing things like that. Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned.
Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... :-\
There's a rule (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html)against discussing things like that. Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned.
Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... :-\
There's a rule (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html)against discussing things like that. Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned.
Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... :-\
Not quite, basically there was quite a few people who joined around the time Claire told Marten she was trans*. While the vast majority were pretty calm, some on both sides were pretty.....what might be the right word.....militant? Fervent? I suppose saying having strong feelings on the subject was something of an understatement.
I do remember one chap insisting on referring to Claire by male pronouns, because that was what she was assigned at point, despite several different people and sources explaining why that was wrong.
What you call "Thought Police", either jokingly or disparagingly, are a group of people who have worked very hard to make sure that this forum doesn't turn into a cesspit like so many other "social sites" on the net. They've had to drop the hammer quite a few times, but in the end, this place is far better than a lot of other forums and sites I used to frequent.
Well my mom always lectured about kids starving in Biafra when I didn't empty my plate fully. I finally looked it up once and it turned out that country stopped existing 45 years ago.
We are guests here. I would kick someone out of my residence if they were talking like that, after being given a metric fuckton of warnings, and it wouldn't be "thought policing". Jeph and by proxy, the mods have every right to do the same.There's a rule (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html)against discussing things like that. Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned.
Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... :-\
That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord." Also because I think it's hilarious.
Actually, that works really well for me as well. Mind if I borrow it?
Oblig: http://xkcd.com/1357/
With that logic, Jeph is also a terrible author for not making Dale get pulled over by cops and treated like differently by a number of the white character, because how dare he include black character and not make a social statement of the injustices of African Americans. And why does he even include robots? They are just machines!
We are guests here. I would kick you someone of my residence if they were talking like that, after being given a metric fuckton of warnings, and it wouldn't be "thought policing". Jeph and by proxy, the mods have every right to do the same.
WRT the AI discrimination, that seems simply non-comparable to me. AI Rights aren't a real thing and Jeph has never really hinted that they're meant as an allegory for real-world struggles. And even within the comic's diegesis, AI is essentially a manmade phenomenon (mostly courtesy of Hannerdad), a non-organic arrangement of sophisticated circuitry, whereas race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender identity et al. are engrained human traits.
I don't necessarily think all minority or typically-discriminated-again/non-privileged groups have to experience bigotry in-comic in order for the comic to be believable - I agree with the person who pointed out the thin line between social realism and tokenism - but if those AI incidents are the only counterexamples to Technetium's observation, then I think Technetium is on solid ground.
That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord." Also because I think it's hilarious.
Jeph stated unambiguously that Dale was African American in QA Dump #14 (http://jephjacques.com/post/11940736839/qa-dump-14)
Thanks. And your reply was enough to make me back and realise that I had screwed up the grammar when I was editing it.We are guests here. I would kick you someone of my residence if they were talking like that, after being given a metric fuckton of warnings, and it wouldn't be "thought policing". Jeph and by proxy, the mods have every right to do the same.
Hedgie, that alone deserved a like!
That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord." Also because I think it's hilarious.
I prefer "Jephzibah" - I don't even remember where it came from. "Our Glorious Trollmaster" is also a good one.
That comic felt very artificial to me. Like, that's textbook how it's supposed to be - a few people made references to Marten becoming a Marty Stu, but I think that's only part of why this just doesn't ring true to me. People, especially in Claire's position, are vulnerable, but to expose herself like that (open to judgement or whatever the hell that's supposed to be) is like... It feels scripted, corny, artificial, plastic (especially since she had to stop the making out to do it) It doesn't 'feel' like people, which is pretty jarring considering Jeph usually is good at writing people and their personalities, but that exchange.. predictable. Not even heart-warming or anything.
So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.
Actually, the big difference with us and others in the LGBTQ community is we can blend in where ever we want, and it's usually easier to keep our orientation under the radar. But when we are out with people about being bi, we face as much or even more discrimination. You get people (gay and straight) who mistakenly assume we are in the closet, seeking attention, "confused" about our sexuality and/or the gay people who feel we are betraying the LGBTG community. Then there's the nutty people who believe that all bis are poly or want "one of each." This may be true for some people who are bi, but many of us. Even Dan Savage didn't *get* that being bi is a real thing for a long timeand he has admitted this. And *don't* get me started on platonic friends we come out to. Some of them are really cool, but a few that I've told (mostly gay/bi women, but some bi/straight dudes, too) seem to think it's an invitation to try to hook up with me.
So, I'm actually really discreet who I tell about my orientation in RL. I let people know on a need-to-know basis (close friends, family members, etc...).
I kind of have an issue with how the whole story with Claire has gone. What makes the Martin-Claire relationship edgy/gutsy/controversial/interesting/etc is that trans people face a lot of problems that they shouldn't have to. At least in real life they do. I guess what bothers me is that Claire's existence in this comic, so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see (everyone she wants to be friends with accepts her, her family accepts her, the guy she pursues accepts her). Is this fair to the trans community? I am not trans or any other part of the LGBTQ spectrum, so I'm approaching this completely from the outside, but if I were to instead consider a different group that I belong to that is discriminated against (although I won't pretend it's anywhere near to the degree what trans people face), I would have a problem with a story about another character identified as being in that group and where the story basically wiped away all the struggles that members of that group face. By creating a story (again, I'd refer to it as almost being a fairy-tale) where a trans character never is shown having to actually deal with the kinds of injustices that real trans characters face, doesn't that cheapen those struggles?
I guess in the bigger picture of the comic, it seems like Jeph mainly creates characters that he likes and would want to be friends with. Homophobia, transphobia, racism... these things are essentially absent from the world of QC simply by the fact that they don't appear in any of the comic strips. Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types? I can understand why he would want to create characters that he himself genuinely likes, but it kind of detracts from the whole idea that Claire or this relationship is particularly special, and makes her brother's reaction about her telling Martin about her gender type kind of silly. Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?
That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.
- A lot of people like more awkward undressing and find it sexy. The nervousness can be a bit of a rush, or the intimacy of knowing someone's letting you be there when they are nervous and that they trust you, or, if one's used to porn/movies/sexy sexy one night stands, the reminder that this person is really human and really there and not an airbrushed, unattainable thing can be sexy indeed too. I do cam modelling and sell some videos, usually custom, and my clients, especially regulars, love candidness, whether it's an awkward undress or giggling a bit or whatever.
So, the people saying it's unsexy/unsensual are, in my mind wrong on two counts, because it is not supposed to be sexy, and at the same time, many people would consider it sexy (do Marten and Claire? no idea, don't care as long as they're happy next comic).
Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) is about to be broken
Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) is about to be broken
Dude. <mod snip>
Dude. - Mod.</mod>
Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) is about to be broken
Dude. <mod snip>
Dude. - Mod.</mod>
What happened? Explicit wants to know and is talking in the third person for no reason at all.
Times like this it'd be nice to have a "like" button for the moderation. :D
So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.
Actually, the big difference with us and others in the LGBTQ community is we can blend in where ever we want, and it's usually easier to keep our orientation under the radar. But when we are out with people about being bi, we face as much or even more discrimination. You get people (gay and straight) who mistakenly assume we are in the closet, seeking attention, "confused" about our sexuality and/or the gay people who feel we are betraying the LGBTG community. Then there's the nutty people who believe that all bis are poly or want "one of each." This may be true for some people who are bi, but many of us. Even Dan Savage didn't *get* that being bi is a real thing for a long timeand he has admitted this. And *don't* get me started on platonic friends we come out to. Some of them are really cool, but a few that I've told (mostly gay/bi women, but some bi/straight dudes, too) seem to think it's an invitation to try to hook up with me.
So, I'm actually really discreet who I tell about my orientation in RL. I let people know on a need-to-know basis (close friends, family members, etc...).
I think you missed his point competely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.
I just want to comment on how excellence has been goddamn achieved with Claire's hair. And then move along.
Would you call that a blow drive-by comment? :claireface:
...
(K, one hell of a stretch but something called out for a pun. Probably the mention of Claire)
[AFTERGLOW]
Claire: Well, I guess you're not a bicycle.
Marten: Huh?
Claire: You weren't too tired.
:clairedoge:
Oh, nice one. I'd suggest we pun in tandem but I lack the wit to do that.
Don't backpedal on me now!
This was definitely interesting to read. I have always gotten the impression that the trans community is essentially "the most discriminated against minority group" currently. Similar to the #yesallwomen thing that was going around a while ago, I would have had no problem believing a #yesalltrans meme that said that virtually all trans people have faced extensive discrimination. Quite interesting to hear that that's not the case.I kind of have an issue with how the whole story with Claire has gone. What makes the Martin-Claire relationship edgy/gutsy/controversial/interesting/etc is that trans people face a lot of problems that they shouldn't have to. At least in real life they do. I guess what bothers me is that Claire's existence in this comic, so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see (everyone she wants to be friends with accepts her, her family accepts her, the guy she pursues accepts her). Is this fair to the trans community? I am not trans or any other part of the LGBTQ spectrum, so I'm approaching this completely from the outside, but if I were to instead consider a different group that I belong to that is discriminated against (although I won't pretend it's anywhere near to the degree what trans people face), I would have a problem with a story about another character identified as being in that group and where the story basically wiped away all the struggles that members of that group face. By creating a story (again, I'd refer to it as almost being a fairy-tale) where a trans character never is shown having to actually deal with the kinds of injustices that real trans characters face, doesn't that cheapen those struggles?
I guess in the bigger picture of the comic, it seems like Jeph mainly creates characters that he likes and would want to be friends with. Homophobia, transphobia, racism... these things are essentially absent from the world of QC simply by the fact that they don't appear in any of the comic strips. Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types? I can understand why he would want to create characters that he himself genuinely likes, but it kind of detracts from the whole idea that Claire or this relationship is particularly special, and makes her brother's reaction about her telling Martin about her gender type kind of silly. Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?
That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.
But why should trans-issues be highlighted in everything? Not all trans-people have those issues. And I think it doesn't help those that choose to transition to see every single problem they may potentially face be focused on in every medium, as if that's how it will go. That's why many people are scared to do anything about their gender issues. I would love to see movies, shows, or read books or comics that have trans-characters that are 'normal' and blend in and aren't focused on because they're trans. This is what most trans-people want; to just transition and blend in. Most of us don't want to stick out. I also feel that expressing the need to see trans characters struggle and face problems merely perpetuates stereotypes. Not all of us have the issues you may think we do. I personally have had a smooth transition, my family has been accepting, all my friends have been accepting, in fact people from my past that I've contacted since have been supportive. I'm not only completely passable everywhere I go, but I'm also quite attractive (or so I've been told quite often). I know I got lucky in a lot of ways, but I think a lot of other trans-people have been in my situation. Many pass and blend in (or go 'stealth'), but you don't hear about that very much. Even in the trans-community, those in my position are often shunned or we're swept under the rug and not talked about. I like Claire and her story so far because it's more relatable to my life than most other trans-themed tales that I've heard or seen. I think it's completely fair that optimistic stories be told alongside the tragic or difficult stories. Smooth transitions aren't just fairytales, just as passability and acceptance aren't myths.
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Sup comic thread I have a video some of you may like :) :)
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Laser eyes would put her at an advantage above Pintsize, since his was dismantled.
Sup comic thread I have a video some of you may like :) :)Your avatar was headbanging to the entire video. I giggled like a schoolgirl.
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Laser eyes would put her at an advantage above Pintsize, since his was dismantled.
There might be some legal issues, though, once she sets Tai on fire for throwing another rave at the library.
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
I work with lasers on a daily basis, and I wear glasses. I have no plans to get lasik surgery...The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses. Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving. Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode. I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Laser eyes would put her at an advantage above Pintsize, since his was dismantled.
I've been so blind...
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Laser eyes would put her at an advantage above Pintsize, since his was dismantled.
There might be some legal issues, though, once she sets Tai on fire for throwing another rave at the library.
Claire could become the Library Enforcer, superhero defender of BOOKS!
Together with Pizza Girl they could totally start up some kind of QCverse Justice League.
Warning - while you were reading more people got laser eyes. You may wish to duck.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
What's 'the surgery'?
I like that a comic is handling a trans relationship well and giving a nice play-by-play of what we wish that everyone who has ever dated a trans person could be like. But Questionable Content has always been about flawed individuals doing the best they can and having some fun along the way. Perfect Boyfriend Marten stands out like a sore thumb.
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
What's 'the surgery'?
It's when they take you into the hospital and perform a medical procedure on you, usually under anesthetic. And no, I don't think Claire has ever mentioned having her appendix out.
What's 'the surgery'?
I mean, 20 hours a week feeding homeless people is a bit much. Couldn't he cut it back to 15?I like that a comic is handling a trans relationship well and giving a nice play-by-play of what we wish that everyone who has ever dated a trans person could be like. But Questionable Content has always been about flawed individuals doing the best they can and having some fun along the way. Perfect Boyfriend Marten stands out like a sore thumb.
It would actually be a cool twist, a year or so from now in comic time, if Claire dumps Marten for being "too perfect." :-D
Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
What's 'the surgery'?
I like that a comic is handling a trans relationship well and giving a nice play-by-play of what we wish that everyone who has ever dated a trans person could be like. But Questionable Content has always been about flawed individuals doing the best they can and having some fun along the way. Perfect Boyfriend Marten stands out like a sore thumb.
It would actually be a cool twist, a year or so from now in comic time, if Claire dumps Marten for being "too perfect." :-D
I hated the strips with M & C hanging out that were just Claire worrying and Marten being Zen, because those just felt formulaic and flat, but the last few--and these last two in particular--have felt just right. I love 'em.
I'm a Clairten shipper, but even I'd rather go back to the old days when the two of them were just friends and their relationship was mostly hanging out and reading books and making horrible puns.
This Marten doesn't have any of the flaws and rough edges that bounced off of Claire's rough edges and flaws so well. This is an AnthroPC Marten-Bot running "I AM A PERFECT BOYFRIEND.EXE" v. 2.0.
I like that a comic is handling a trans relationship well and giving a nice play-by-play of what we wish that everyone who has ever dated a trans person could be like. But Questionable Content has always been about flawed individuals doing the best they can and having some fun along the way. Perfect Boyfriend Marten stands out like a sore thumb.
This resonates strongly with me. Ever since this relationship, it's almost like a completely different character from the fumbling, bumbling, over-analyzing Marten that I recall up to this point.
From a trans perspective, technetium's heart is in the right place with their concerns, and for that reason it may be beneficial to include a *little* more reference to the unique difficulties of being trans. But sugarsparkle is also right - we aren't fully represented by the drama, which is usually all that's depicted. And only showing the dark side of being trans can breed severe pessimism and insecurity, especially among young people coming to terms with a trans identity. Sometimes the best thing we can do is provide positive role models.
<snip>
Being trans is about being different, and being different challenges people unaccustomed to or not expecting differences. More than anything, being different illustrates the best and the worst of humanity. It shows how horrible we can be, and how wonderful. The horrors are usually irreversible and thus intensely horrific. But the wonderful people are actually the majority. They just fly under the radar by treating people *normally*.
What's 'the surgery'?
It's when they take you into the hospital and perform a medical procedure on you, usually under anesthetic. And no, I don't think Claire has ever mentioned having her appendix out.
Aw, I was way off. I thought it was laser insertion.
I'm not seeing it; Marten is chill and laid back, in relationships as with anything else. He was chill, supportive, and laid back about Dora's insecurities and anxieties (Up to a point, admittedly, but it took quite a lot to get to that point), and Faye's too, although they weren't dating, why would he be any different with Claire? (Also, I get a little annoyed by all the 'oh he's too perfect' on a personal level, since I actually have a very similar approach to relationships as Marten, and I get a little sick of people going on about how unrealistic I apparently am).
Perfect Boyfriend Marten stands out like a sore thumb.
I can't. I tried putting them in one time, and my eye felt like it was on fire for the next several hours, even after I got the damn thing back out.
I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses. Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving. Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode. I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.
The problem is that storytelling about any individual -- much less any group of individuals -- ends up being like the blind men and the elephant; no matter how hard you try, you can only tell so much of the story. Something gets left out, or de-emphasized, only to be taken up (or forgotten) later, but you're never going to get the whole thing... even if it's your story you're telling.
It would actually be a cool twist, a year or so from now in comic time, if Claire dumps Marten for being "too perfect." :-D
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Nooooo.
The half of the cast that doesn't wear glasses should get surgery so that they need them.
"Before she became the rather quiet (but assertive when needed) Claire we know today, and was still figuring herself out, she was a teen rebel..."
YesssThe only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
Nooooo.
The half of the cast that doesn't wear glasses should get surgery so that they need them.
YASSSS"Before she became the rather quiet (but assertive when needed) Claire we know today, and was still figuring herself out, she was a teen rebel..."
(http://i.imgur.com/BK6dw9M.jpg)
I can't. I tried putting them in one time, and my eye felt like it was on fire for the next several hours, even after I got the damn thing back out.
Regarding Lasik, I personally possess an unholy (and irrational) terror regarding surgeries of literally any sort whatsoever (except dental surgery, for some peculiar reason), even down to such exceedingly minor procedures as pierced earlobes (I am one of two people I know who have no tattoos or piercings of any sort, and the other one is deciding what tattoo to get when he has some spare cash).
After seeing that, ex-biker Claire is now head-canon rather than an off the cuff remark."Before she became the rather quiet (but assertive when needed) Claire we know today, and was still figuring herself out, she was a teen rebel..."
(http://i.imgur.com/BK6dw9M.jpg)
"Before she became the rather quiet (but assertive when needed) Claire we know today, and was still figuring herself out, she was a teen rebel..."
(http://i.imgur.com/BK6dw9M.jpg)
So was the attempt with Delilah the v2.0 alpha test? It's fitting, it crashed and burned pretty hard....
"Before she became the rather quiet (but assertive when needed) Claire we know today, and was still figuring herself out, she was a teen rebel..."
(http://i.imgur.com/BK6dw9M.jpg)
I desperately want this to be a real thing.
Also, I argue that it would make for a more compelling story where close-minded characters exist, are seen interacting with the rest of the characters, and learn to change how they see the people that they had previously been bigoted against.My emphasis added to what, in my experience, is at least as unrealistic as anything about the QC cast...
Dale was arguably black when he was first introduced, but I'm pretty sure he isn't any longer.Wow! Conflating race and, what, behaviour? Are we seriously going to go down that path? Suggesting that somehow Dale doesn't "act black" enough? I was born in China, and yet here I am communicating in fluent, correct written English. Does that change my race? If I were a comic character, what would I have to do to be "authentically Asian"? Speak broken English with a "flied lice" accent? Wear a qipao all the time? What should Dale be doing? Saying "dawg" every other sentence?
Whats the bet on Tai literally squeeing so hard she passes out?
Wait, what?Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?
Wow! Conflating race and, what, behaviour? Are we seriously going to go down that path? Suggesting that somehow Dale doesn't "act black" enough? I was born in China, and yet here I am communicating in fluent, correct written English. Does that change my race? If I were a comic character, what would I have to do to be "authentically Asian"? Speak broken English with a "flied lice" accent? Wear a qipao all the time? What should Dale be doing? Saying "dawg" every other sentence?
Jeph stated unambiguously that Dale was African American in QA Dump #14 (http://jephjacques.com/post/11940736839/qa-dump-14)
Okay. I don't read the QA dumps unless I'm linked to them, so thanks. He doesn't "read" as black to me because of the hair texture. But it could be straightened, or he could just have "good" hair naturally I suppose.
Jeph stated unambiguously that Dale was African American in QA Dump #14 (http://jephjacques.com/post/11940736839/qa-dump-14)
Okay. I don't read the QA dumps unless I'm linked to them, so thanks. He doesn't "read" as black to me because of the hair texture. But it could be straightened, or he could just have "good" hair naturally I suppose.
I thought he had twists when introduced which had now grown into dreds.
Also I think it's seriously gross you're getting into stuff like his hair texture to determine Dales ethnicity. Are we going to pull out cuatro paintings next?
Dale was arguably black when he was first introduced, but I'm pretty sure he isn't any longer.Wow! Conflating race and, what, behaviour? Are we seriously going to go down that path? <snip>
Even people with the worst bigoted views have within themselves the capability to become better people.Also, I argue that it would make for a more compelling story where close-minded characters exist, are seen interacting with the rest of the characters, and learn to change how they see the people that they had previously been bigoted against.My emphasis added to what, in my experience, is at least as unrealistic as anything about the QC cast...
Dale was arguably black when he was first introduced, but I'm pretty sure he isn't any longer.Wow! Conflating race and, what, behaviour? Are we seriously going to go down that path? <snip>
Woah, woah, woah... I think you are misreading what Eschaton is saying here. I took it to mean that how Dale was drawn had changed in such a way that it now suggests a different ethnicity. He may have chosen his words poorly, but it's clear to me that he didn't mean what you seem to think he meant.
It's still opening the conversation to "what Black really looks like", and frankly I don't think this forum needs to be having that right now.Woah, woah, woah... I think you are misreading what Eschaton is saying here. I took it to mean that how Dale was drawn had changed in such a way that it now suggests a different ethnicity. He may have chosen his words poorly, but it's clear to me that he didn't mean what you seem to think he meant.Dale was arguably black when he was first introduced, but I'm pretty sure he isn't any longer.Wow! Conflating race and, what, behaviour? Are we seriously going to go down that path? <snip>
Wait, what?Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?
It doesn't matter for us and the story. Claire is completely "allowed" in a narrative context to be private about this with respect to the audience. It doesn't matter to us at all. What matters is her relationship with Marten. We do not know Claire's surgical status, and I would be willing to bet you nearly any amount of money that we never will, which is fine.
But like, inside the story? Of course it matters. They've almost certainly had a conversation about this off-panel; like, of course they have, this is an intimate detail adults need to deal with. Lots and lots of people are not going to be sexually attracted to people whose genitals are in a certain configuration. That is entirely understandable and completely fine.
I can't tell which "should" you were referring to here -- the audience-related one or the story-related one.
It's still opening the conversation to "what Black really looks like", and frankly I don't think this forum needs to be having that right now.Woah, woah, woah... I think you are misreading what Eschaton is saying here. I took it to mean that how Dale was drawn had changed in such a way that it now suggests a different ethnicity. He may have chosen his words poorly, but it's clear to me that he didn't mean what you seem to think he meant.Dale was arguably black when he was first introduced, but I'm pretty sure he isn't any longer.Wow! Conflating race and, what, behaviour? Are we seriously going to go down that path? <snip>
Part of the reason why controversial subjects are controversial is because we (people) don't talk about them and don't listen to each other. This may not be the time or place for this conversation, but, really when is a good time? Where is a good place? If what someone said was unintentionally hurtful, explaining why will get you further than outrage. With outrage, you just alienate the other person and shut down communication; controversial subjects stay controversial and no one learns.
Part of the reason why controversial subjects are controversial is because we (people) don't talk about them and don't listen to each other. This may not be the time or place for this conversation, but, really when is a good time? Where is a good place? If what someone said was unintentionally hurtful, explaining why will get you further than outrage. With outrage, you just alienate the other person and shut down communication; controversial subjects stay controversial and no one learns.
Part of the reason why controversial subjects are controversial is because we (people) don't talk about them and don't listen to each other. This may not be the time or place for this conversation, but, really when is a good time? Where is a good place? If what someone said was unintentionally hurtful, explaining why will get you further than outrage. With outrage, you just alienate the other person and shut down communication; controversial subjects stay controversial and no one learns.
I would say that in many cases, many subjects that are considered controversial because people tend to do more talking than listening.
It's not that bad, and they give you a Percocet before you're barely cognizant of what's going on! The trade-off for me was losing my SUPER CLOSE (like centimetres away from my eye close) vision but being able to see things at a distance is quite nice. My right eye reverted a little, but my left eye is at 20/10 or something. I was 20/300 or worse in both before!The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)
I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses. Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving. Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode. I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.
I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses. Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving. Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode. I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.
Even people with the worst bigoted views have within themselves the capability to become better people.
Even people with the worst bigoted views have within themselves the capability to become better people.
Shit, I can't help but post this, considering I was just talking about this with some other people.
Since you're linking ex-Westboro, if you want to be depressed you should look up the history of Fred Phelps for things going the other way. Man was a goddamned hero, once.
Wait, what?Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?
It doesn't matter for us and the story. Claire is completely "allowed" in a narrative context to be private about this with respect to the audience. It doesn't matter to us at all. What matters is her relationship with Marten. We do not know Claire's surgical status, and I would be willing to bet you nearly any amount of money that we never will, which is fine.
But like, inside the story? Of course it matters. They've almost certainly had a conversation about this off-panel; like, of course they have, this is an intimate detail adults need to deal with. Lots and lots of people are not going to be sexually attracted to people whose genitals are in a certain configuration. That is entirely understandable and completely fine.
I can't tell which "should" you were referring to here -- the audience-related one or the story-related one.
I ask why, because do genitals really make you a man or a woman? Also, if she is post, does it make her less "trans"? To me, the answer is noand therefore it does not matter what her plumbing looks like. We are more than our body parts (even beyond genitals).
Wait, what?Question:
Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.
Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?
It doesn't matter for us and the story. Claire is completely "allowed" in a narrative context to be private about this with respect to the audience. It doesn't matter to us at all. What matters is her relationship with Marten. We do not know Claire's surgical status, and I would be willing to bet you nearly any amount of money that we never will, which is fine.
But like, inside the story? Of course it matters. They've almost certainly had a conversation about this off-panel; like, of course they have, this is an intimate detail adults need to deal with. Lots and lots of people are not going to be sexually attracted to people whose genitals are in a certain configuration. That is entirely understandable and completely fine.
I can't tell which "should" you were referring to here -- the audience-related one or the story-related one.
I ask why, because do genitals really make you a man or a woman? Also, if she is post, does it make her less "trans"? To me, the answer is noand therefore it does not matter what her plumbing looks like. We are more than our body parts (even beyond genitals).
Regardless of sex identification, body parts can play a major role in attraction. Someone attracted to men may not be attracted to fat men. Someone attracted to women may not be attracted to women with male features, especially such prominently male features such as male genitalia.
Granted, Martin was aware of this and is presumably aware of her pre/post op status, so he probably doesn't mind one way or another.
This Marten doesn't have any of the flaws and rough edges that bounced off of Claire's rough edges and flaws so well. This is an AnthroPC Marten-Bot running "I AM A PERFECT BOYFRIEND.EXE" v. 2.0.
This Marten doesn't have any of the flaws and rough edges that bounced off of Claire's rough edges and flaws so well. This is an AnthroPC Marten-Bot running "I AM A PERFECT BOYFRIEND.EXE" v. 2.0.
I think this is another thing we keep forgetting- Marten and Claire aren't boyfriend and girlfriend yet, are they? Its possible that Marten is on his best behavior because he wants to be Boyfriend.exe.
Regardless of sex identification, body parts can play a major role in attraction. Someone attracted to men may not be attracted to fat men. Someone attracted to women may not be attracted to women with male features, especially such prominently male features such a penis.
Agreed, that conversation can get really uncomfortable really quickly, especially for people like myself who are CONSTANTLY being asked "So, what are you really?"
Claire's existence in this comic so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see
Regardless of sex identification, body parts can play a major role in attraction. Someone attracted to men may not be attracted to fat men. Someone attracted to women may not be attracted to women with male features, especially such prominently male features such a penis.
Fixed that for you.
Also, it's nitpicky, but he's Marten.
A compelling plot desperately needs conflict. Someone was saying, we just had a bunch of drama, and you want to add more? and I respond, YES. For once, we had what this strip desperately needed to get the ball rolling, and do you know what that was? A bad influence. Pintsize. If it wasn't for Pintsize, this wouldn't have escalated nearly as high as it needed to. Now take the Marten/Claire storyline. Where is the conflict? We go straight from storybook beginning, with a loving mother and a protective brother, to storybook ending, with pure-of-heart boyfriend Marten. Even the internal conflicts have been barely touched on or expressed through actions. Someone else here said it perfectly, this is a fairy-tale for Claire, and it is so dissonant with the realities that most trans people face. Sure, it's really nice, but is it SATISFYING? No, because there were no obstacles to overcome. Certainly none for Claire (that we have been present for), and if there were any for Marten, we didn't see them.
Apparently, not even in fiction are LGBT people allowed to have nice things.
Also, really, I can't be the only person who has seen the Marten and Claire strips as breathers. They are stuck in between a lot of other drama strips. If their relationship was super drama too, the whole comic would just be DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA GRIMDARK.
Claire undressing wasn't meant to be foreplay, it was negotiation.+1 Insightful
"Before she became the rather quiet (but assertive when needed) Claire we know today, and was still figuring herself out, she was a teen rebel..."
(http://i.imgur.com/BK6dw9M.jpg)
I desperately want this to be a real thing.
Unfortunately it's more likely to be Clinton who will turn up dressed like that. Not that it won't be funny of course.
Nah Reaver, Clinton ain't no badass. That's all Claire, through and through.
I was born in China, and yet here I am communicating in fluent, correct written English. Does that change my race?It makes you mildly unusual for Australian.
Nah Reaver, Clinton ain't no badass. That's all Claire, through and through.
Claires the Claire that Clinton could be if he could be a Claire?
So I have a question if Claire is covered in chocolate
does that make her an...Eclaire? :claireface:
I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses. Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving. Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode. I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.
I have keratoconus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratoconus) (weird corneas; the wiki link includes a photo as example), and although my optometrist recommended contacts I refused to wear them for several years because I had the same eye-poking issues. But then my glasses broke and I had to confront the fact that my vision was really fucked up and no new pair of glasses could possibly correct it, so I finally gave it and started wearing the contacts. Horribly uncomfortable at first, but once I found the proper fit I got used to them.
Then I lost the lens for my left eye and had to get a corneal transplant, but that's another story. True fact: once you've had a surgeon stitch a dead person's cornea onto your eyeball, then later remove each stitch one by one with a tiny needle, poking yourself in the eye is really no big deal.
Wow. When you killed your brother, did you talk just... LIKE... THIS?I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses. Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving. Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode. I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.
I have keratoconus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratoconus) (weird corneas; the wiki link includes a photo as example), and although my optometrist recommended contacts I refused to wear them for several years because I had the same eye-poking issues. But then my glasses broke and I had to confront the fact that my vision was really fucked up and no new pair of glasses could possibly correct it, so I finally gave it and started wearing the contacts. Horribly uncomfortable at first, but once I found the proper fit I got used to them.
Then I lost the lens for my left eye and had to get a corneal transplant, but that's another story. True fact: once you've had a surgeon stitch a dead person's cornea onto your eyeball, then later remove each stitch one by one with a tiny needle, poking yourself in the eye is really no big deal.
I have Keratoconus too. None of the glasses they tried actually work, so I had hard contact lenses when I was a kid, the kind you have to remove with a plunger. They sometimes moved away from the iris, so when that happened I always got terrified it was going behind my eyeball cutting the optical nerve. So then when I was 15 I got a corneal transplant, but one stitch was on the wrong side so it hurt opening they eye so they operated on me again after staying in the hospital for a weekend. I guess the person I received the cornea from must have had bad eye sight too as I don't see much improvement in my left eye.
Apparently, not even in fiction are LGBT people allowed to have nice things.
Also, really, I can't be the only person who has seen the Marten and Claire strips as breathers. They are stuck in between a lot of other drama strips. If their relationship was super drama too, the whole comic would just be DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA GRIMDARK.
It is no coincidence that a person who styles themselves as the Emperor has, by saying QC shouldn't be grimdark, made it painfully obvious to me that QC needs more grimdark.
Apparently, not even in fiction are LGBT people allowed to have nice things.
Also, really, I can't be the only person who has seen the Marten and Claire strips as breathers. They are stuck in between a lot of other drama strips. If their relationship was super drama too, the whole comic would just be DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA GRIMDARK.
It is no coincidence that a person who styles themselves as the Emperor has, by saying QC shouldn't be grimdark, made it painfully obvious to me that QC needs more grimdark.
The name "Emperor Norton" has historical significance... and it's actually quite funny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton
Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2433) is about to be broken
Dude. <mod snip>
Dude. - Mod.</mod>
Marten may have done this off-panel. Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph. But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me. Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring. That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).
ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.
Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.
I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.
There's also Peter Bianchi, and his dismissal of Dora's bisexuality as a phase... not actually gender type discrimination, but...
And, Meena had some off-screen discrimination as well, for racial discrimination.
ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.
Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.
I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.
ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.
Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.
I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.
Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom..... :psyduck:
Oh, I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense. I just don't like that kind of super-sweet interaction. I have enough cavities as it is.ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.
Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.
I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.
This might be an absolutely ridiculous POV since I've never had a relationship, but after knowing what happened to a friend in his first fumbled attempt at relationship (he was 20 at the time) and scared of what would happen in mine... It looks normal. Yes, it looks junior high. Turns out that Claire's date-fu might probably be at that "age", experience or however you want to call it (remember it's her first serious relationship), and it makes perfect sense to look like that.
At least to me.
In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:
Do you hate puppies too?
In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:I'm more of a cat person.
Do you hate puppies too?
Claire's existence in this comic so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see
Which makes exactly one depiction of that in any medium, film, tv show, cartoon, or even book that I know of.
One.
I think.. we deserve that fairy-tale just once. And it does happen like that in reality, sometimes, just as some girls are princesses (which I suspect is over-rated).
I like my media (books, movies, games, etc) with happy endings for the same reason. It's not that I don't like to be "challenged" or that I can't "handle" serious, darker work, it's that I don't WANT to.
It's the only way to be sure, after all.
Honestly, I sadly did expect to see a fusillade of flying ban-hammers after the last couple of comics. Either the mods have reacted far faster than I could see, or people have behaved far better than they have in the past.
In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:
Do you hate puppies too?
Marten was introduced to sexuality in a very different, unconventional way than most children are, so for him to be appalled by Claire rather than accepting seems like it would be more out of character for me. He was raised in a way that taught sexuality to be something very, very diverse, and coupled with the full knowledge of Claire's transition before even entering a relationship with her, there's absolutely no reason this part of the comic should have gone any differently.
Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.
Ragbanrok?Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.
Bannerdammerung?
They make me want to vomit rainbows.
They make me want to vomit rainbows.
Cool! You can actually do that?!?
Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom..... :psyduck:
Now that you mention it, this went much much better than when Marten and Claire started dating. Many thanks to all the new people for being decent.
For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.*sob* We learned it from you! We learned it from YOU!
Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.
Ragbanrok?Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.
Bannerdammerung?
For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.
Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.
Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom..... :psyduck:
I imagine she gets a daily colonic.
For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.This thread has no nose!
Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.
The last few pages of this thread are why I stayed away from the forums for so long. Apparently, at least according to many of the people commenting here, a story can't be good unless everything is blowing up in everyone's faces all the damn time.
I imagine that there's exactly one transporter device on Dr. Ellicott-Chatham's space station, and it's probably set aside for Hanners' personal use.
For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.There are four lights!
Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.
This thread has no nose!
I was not expecting so much discussion of Hannerpoop :-P
I was not expecting so much discussion of Hannerpoop :-P
Really? I'm more surprised it didn't happen soon.
Here's a random thought about happy stories.
C.S. Lewis once said something to the effect "What kind of person finds escapism bad? A jailer."
I don't want things to blow up all the time. I want Marten to act like Marten. I want him to be a little snarky and playful. I want him to make dumb jokes and goof around a bit. I want the Marten who decided to scritch Claire's hair and back and make her go all *_*. You know. Not necessarily Marten at his worst. Marten at his best.
Strip 2808 comes to mind. Like 2891, Marten is LITERALLY reading off of the "how a guy dating a trans woman is supposed to act" handbook. Hell, 2808 is even structured like a, "POP QUIZ, MARTEN! YOUR NEW TRANS GIRLFRIEND ASKED YOU HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT DATING A TRANS LADY! DO YOU PICK. . ." 2891 feels like just another test to see if Marten passes the "AM I THE PERFECT BOYFRIEND FOR CLAIRE" test.
I was not expecting so much discussion of Hannerpoop :-P
Really? I'm more surprised it didn't happen soon.
I'm not surprised it happened, just surprised I lit the fuse.
ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.
Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.
I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.
I was not expecting so much discussion of Hannerpoop :-P
Really? I'm more surprised it didn't happen soon.
I'm not surprised it happened, just surprised I lit the fuse.
No one expects discussion of Hanners's poop. Its chief weapon is surprise.
And fear.
I was not expecting so much discussion of Hannerpoop :-P
Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom..... :psyduck:
Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom..... :psyduck:
The answer at 1719 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1719).
(http://i.imgur.com/XLxyKWc.jpg)
Why did you do that?! You ruined the mystique of Hannerpoop!
NO ONE EXPECTS THE POOPQUISITION!!!I was not expecting so much discussion of Hannerpoop :-P
Really? I'm more surprised it didn't happen soon.
I'm not surprised it happened, just surprised I lit the fuse.
No one expects discussion of Hanners's poop. Its chief weapon is surprise.
And fear.
Because if my math is right that comic is over 4 years old.
Because if my math is right that comic is over 4 years old.
Yeah....but that's like three weeks QC time. :roll:
Don't bring Intel into this! Maybe they hadn't had enough Java to get their inner Oracle running. You can't expect everyone to Google everything, Mac.
Because if my math is right that comic is over 4 years old.
Yeah....but that's like three weeks QC time. :roll:
Setting aside the fact that at that particular point in time Angus and Faye had just started dating more or less, so it has to be more comic time, it's really no excuse not to know that piece of info in the Real World (tm). The intel's been out there.
After reading all this thread, I think I finally understand why George R. R. Martin is hated and loved at the same time by the same group of people. If you read A Song of Ice and Fire you may choose one side: those who like how Martin writes, and those who hate how Martin writes. Those who are like "meh" don't discuss the writing at all, so they don't count. Alrighty then; here it's happening too. At a minor scale, if you like, but it's happening nonetheless.
So people may like how Jeph writes, or hate how our Glorious Leader writes, but at the end, if people sticks around the webcomic, it is because they love the comic and its story. I, for one, like how Jeph, that magnificent bastard, writes his webcomic.
Why did you do that?! You ruined the mystique of Hannerpoop!
(http://i.imgur.com/tdSBeC2.jpg)
As one of his shitty country songs is played in the background.
As one of his shitty country songs is played in the background."I Can't Get the Blood of You Out of My Tux"
Why did you do that?! You ruined the mystique of Hannerpoop!
(http://i.imgur.com/tdSBeC2.jpg)
I just realized that this comic is old enough that we realistically could reply to comments by just posting quotes from panels in the archives.
As one of his shitty country songs is played in the background."I Can't Get the Blood of You Out of My Tux"
What you call "Thought Police", either jokingly or disparagingly, are a group of people who have worked very hard to make sure that this forum doesn't turn into a cesspit like so many other "social sites" on the net. They've had to drop the hammer quite a few times, but in the end, this place is far better than a lot of other forums and sites I used to frequent.Hear Hear! I say this as a forum moderator for another forum full of roughnecks. The ones here are stellar.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t782zwC4wY0/VNbhJFkVa3I/AAAAAAAAB20/7qCE--sQHFc/s800/comment.png)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t782zwC4wY0/VNbhJFkVa3I/AAAAAAAAB20/7qCE--sQHFc/s800/comment.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/okSOnHO.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g_oIwrkWZw8/VNbrJBCx6jI/AAAAAAAAB3M/XUwVOb_m51k/s800/comment.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/okSOnHO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8xdCT3W.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/6YJkqBx83Q2XU1oC8BZJRh7li-NFg_-WRpDv8c7eqpz8JrSE646fk4-i1-Toz8-dPGpP0g8ixP0=w1342-h537)Fixed that for ya
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/6YJkqBx83Q2XU1oC8BZJRh7li-NFg_-WRpDv8c7eqpz8JrSE646fk4-i1-Toz8-dPGpP0g8ixP0=w1342-h537)Fixed that for ya
This thread has no nose!
I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person
To say something innocent in an unfortunate context that causes it to become hurtful or otherwise controversial.
A story can't be good unless something blows up.
It's not that I don't like to be "challenged" or that I can't "handle" serious, darker work, it's that I don't WANT to. The world we live in is a maelstrom of injustice, hate, and general horror, with a few times and people that stand opposite that as bright islands in a black ocean.
Could Marten get any more empty as a character? I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person, which happens to come right around the time that trans* issues are gaining real traction in the social justice community? Come on. I've dated a trans*person in the past, and the first time we got naked, it was treated with much more dignity and care than it was given here. "You're beautiful"? I'll take Things That a 16 Year Old Says When Losing His Virginity for $200, Alex. This is just empty pandering.
A story can't be good unless something blows up.
Which is why Michael Bay is recognised as the greatest storyteller of our age.
Could Marten get any more empty as a character? I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person, which happens to come right around the time that trans* issues are gaining real traction in the social justice community? Come on. I've dated a trans*person in the past, and the first time we got naked, it was treated with much more dignity and care than it was given here. "You're beautiful"? I'll take Things That a 16 Year Old Says When Losing His Virginity for $200, Alex. This is just empty pandering.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t782zwC4wY0/VNbhJFkVa3I/AAAAAAAAB20/7qCE--sQHFc/s800/comment.png)
True, and at the moment, Marten seems very comfortable with his sexuality, but it's not always been displayed that way. A few months prior, while he was still dating Dora, he was certainly not OK with dating a transgendered Person: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)Could Marten get any more empty as a character? I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person, which happens to come right around the time that trans* issues are gaining real traction in the social justice community? Come on. I've dated a trans*person in the past, and the first time we got naked, it was treated with much more dignity and care than it was given here. "You're beautiful"? I'll take Things That a 16 Year Old Says When Losing His Virginity for $200, Alex. This is just empty pandering.
A) Sexuality exists along a spectrum: it's called the Kinsey Scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale/ ... However, even this does not completely represent the full complexity of human sexuality. It's not straight or gay, or even straight, bi, or gay; it just is.
[Edited for length]
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t782zwC4wY0/VNbhJFkVa3I/AAAAAAAAB20/7qCE--sQHFc/s800/comment.png)
You know, I wonder if this was foreshadowing for something. Were the "mistakes" being actions that sent Faye even deeper into her slide, or were the "mistakes" something that we haven't seen on screen yet?
You know, I wonder if this was foreshadowing for something. Were the "mistakes" being actions that sent Faye even deeper into her slide, or were the "mistakes" something that we haven't seen on screen yet?
He may. I was just pointing out why coming to the conclusion that he did completely change his mind without outside indication is a little out of character.
Jeph's handled that - but in another context, and with another character.
(http://i.imgur.com/GiMVZ.jpg)
C) Empty Pandering? When did web comics become a pissing contest for hipsters? Do I get bonus points for saying "I was trans* friendly before it was cool?" Come on!
C) Empty Pandering? When did web comics become a pissing contest for hipsters? Do I get bonus points for saying "I was trans* friendly before it was cool?" Come on!
Well it is all popular now. That's why I'm anti-trans, that way no one can accuse me of being trendy.
True, and at the moment, Marten seems very comfortable with his sexuality, but it's not always been displayed that way. A few months prior, while he was still dating Dora, he was certainly not OK with dating a transgendered Person: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)
Even in jest, that's a very hurtful comment to make, and for Marten it's just been a few months (I've scanned AprilArcus' wonderful timeline, and as far as I can see, it's maybe 6+ months). This is not the only time he displayed discomfort with people who's visible gender might not always be the same: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457
This is an AnthroPC Marten-Bot running "I AM A PERFECT BOYFRIEND.EXE" v. 2.0.
The only way I can get my head around it is by reminding myself that Claire is not very much like me she's a virginal mess of stress and anxiety and frustration...
I think that this is a key point: Claire seems to have been generally under-socialised at the point she started out as an Intern. She has no friends out side of the Library/CoD circles that we know about. Lacking previous close friendships means that she, at best, can sometimes only guess about appropriate behaviour based on others' actions. I suspect that she probably doesn't have anyone fully reliable to turn to in romance issues (not with the possible exception of her mother). Because of this, her behaviours will sometimes be eccentric to the objective eye.
I think that this is a key point: Claire seems to have been generally under-socialised at the point she started out as an Intern. She has no friends out side of the Library/CoD circles that we know about.
How much of that do we chalk up to her being trans and how much to other factors? It's hard to imagine making it through four years of college (and a couple years of grad school?) without making at least a few close friends. Clinton definitely seems a little bit ASD; I wonder if Claire has some of those traits too.
Could Marten get any more empty as a character? I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person, which happens to come right around the time that trans* issues are gaining real traction in the social justice community? Come on. I've dated a trans*person in the past, and the first time we got naked, it was treated with much more dignity and care than it was given here. "You're beautiful"? I'll take Things That a 16 Year Old Says When Losing His Virginity for $200, Alex. This is just empty pandering.
Also, this is wrong. As in counter factual. As in this description of Marten is not accurate.
"Straight" is a construct. What defines straight really depends on who you ask. I'm sure there's a bi person somewhere who finds the application of that fact terribly hypocritical. So, what straight means to Marten is up to... Marten. (Well, Jeph. But I repeat myself.)
<snip>
Whatever's going down can be straight by whatever definition Marten uses. (As an aside, I found this comment no less clangy than those implying Marten might be fluid because of his mom's job. I didn't just make up this stuff about the artifice of straight for this comment, so the idea that Marten's personal view on the matter needs a justification is kind of a drop... on the head.)
<further snip>
I think that this is a key point: Claire seems to have been generally under-socialised at the point she started out as an Intern. She has no friends out side of the Library/CoD circles that we know about. Lacking previous close friendships means that she, at best, can sometimes only guess about appropriate behaviour based on others' actions. I suspect that she probably doesn't have anyone fully reliable to turn to in romance issues (not with the possible exception of her mother). Because of this, her behaviours will sometimes be eccentric to the objective eye.
How much of that do we chalk up to her having a difficult, socially isolating transition during her freshman/sophomore years, and how much to other factors? It's hard to imagine making it through four years of college (and a couple years of grad school?) without making at least a few close friends. Clinton definitely seems a little bit ASD; I wonder if Claire has some of those traits too.
In any case, I still think that her key motivator was her body image issues. She isn't confident in her appearance and she had to get this out of the way and on her own terms.
Afterwards Marigold turned to Momo to reflect on her second thoughts. Who will Claire turn to?
Here's a really wild thought that's going to melt a lot of heads: Wait and see what Jeph does with the comic.That seems morbid.
True, and at the moment, Marten seems very comfortable with his sexuality, but it's not always been displayed that way. A few months prior, while he was still dating Dora, he was certainly not OK with dating a transgendered Person: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)Could Marten get any more empty as a character? I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person[...]
[Edited for length]
Even in jest, that's a very hurtful comment to make, and for Marten it's just been a few months (I've scanned AprilArcus' wonderful timeline, and as far as I can see, it's maybe 6+ months). This is not the only time he displayed discomfort with people who's visible gender might not always be the same: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457
No, see, the way my life works is you'd wait until after we had sex to tell me that. You know, let me get the full afterglow going before you shatter my mind.For him, it is not knowing things beforehand what is wrong. He knew about Claire being trans, processed that fact with pancakes, and then he decided he still wanted to have a relationship. Or at least try.
RF: Okay, maybe not fluidity, since you find that "clangy".
Hello all,
I hope this is OK and not out of place in the WCDT, else would the mods be so kind as to move it to the "T"-thread. I also donŽt know what the banmageddon was all about, but I will stick to what *I* see in the latest comic.
I personally think panel 3 gets as close as possible to answering "Teh Question That Must Not Be Asked"
Please, and this again goes for the mods and also people who read this forum and who I know have special sensitivity issues around this subject: I am not making a statement how things are supposed to be, or, behold, of right or wrong. I am just giving my personal opinion and reading of ClaireŽs expression in that panel which is, after all, part of the comic.
I think the first few rounds of bannings from earlier arcs probably got all the people who were going to go that route.
True, and at the moment, Marten seems very comfortable with his sexuality, but it's not always been displayed that way. A few months prior, while he was still dating Dora, he was certainly not OK with dating a transgendered Person: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)
Even in jest, that's a very hurtful comment to make, and for Marten it's just been a few months (I've scanned AprilArcus' wonderful timeline, and as far as I can see, it's maybe 6+ months). This is not the only time he displayed discomfort with people who's visible gender might not always be the same: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457
I personally think panel 3 gets as close as possible to answering "Teh Question That Must Not Be Asked"
Please, and this again goes for the mods and also people who read this forum and who I know have special sensitivity issues around this subject: I am not making a statement how things are supposed to be, or, behold, of right or wrong. I am just giving my personal opinion and reading of ClaireŽs expression in that panel which is, after all, part of the comic.
I can't. I tried putting them in one time, and my eye felt like it was on fire for the next several hours, even after I got the damn thing back out.
Regarding Lasik, I personally possess an unholy (and irrational) terror regarding surgeries of literally any sort whatsoever (except dental surgery, for some peculiar reason), even down to such exceedingly minor procedures as pierced earlobes (I am one of two people I know who have no tattoos or piercings of any sort, and the other one is deciding what tattoo to get when he has some spare cash).
RF: Okay, maybe not fluidity, since you find that "clangy".
I don't find applying labels to Marten clangy. I find the need to justify his choices by appealing to his childhood clangy. As in, nobody is appealing to Faye's childhood to justify her straightness.
If there's nothing special, on a fundamental level, about being trans--if there's nothing special about being attracted to and romantically engaged with a trans person--then there's no more need to appeal to explanation with regard to Marten's sexuality than there is for Dora's, or Tai's, or Steve's, or Faye's...
True, and at the moment, Marten seems very comfortable with his sexuality, but it's not always been displayed that way. A few months prior, while he was still dating Dora, he was certainly not OK with dating a transgendered Person: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)
Even in jest, that's a very hurtful comment to make, and for Marten it's just been a few months (I've scanned AprilArcus' wonderful timeline, and as far as I can see, it's maybe 6+ months). This is not the only time he displayed discomfort with people who's visible gender might not always be the same: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457
Do you think perhaps Jeph may have changed a lot in the time since that comic was written? Do you think Jeph's changes may in some way influence Marten's character and the way the comic is written?
RF: Okay, maybe not fluidity, since you find that "clangy".
I don't find applying labels to Marten clangy. I find the need to justify his choices by appealing to his childhood clangy. As in, nobody is appealing to Faye's childhood to justify her straightness.
If there's nothing special, on a fundamental level, about being trans--if there's nothing special about being attracted to and romantically engaged with a trans person--then there's no more need to appeal to explanation with regard to Marten's sexuality than there is for Dora's, or Tai's, or Steve's, or Faye's...
Second point first: I don't think it necessarily needs to be explained (as I mentioned). That's their business, not ours. To your first point... No, you wouldn't look to Faye's childhood for clues about her approach to her sexuality. But if you were talking about her trust issues? Her alcoholism? At least one, maybe two, suicide attempts? Her casual disrespect for boundaries? The (thankfully toned down) violence? It'd be silly not to. Ditto, say, Hanners' issues, or Dora's complicated relationship with her brother and her parents (among other things). In other words, when a character's perception, attitudes and actions are clearly influenced by their past, it can be useful to examine that past and how it colors the present, and that's something that isn't in any way exclusive to sexuality. If we were talking about, say, Marten's taste in beer, then I'd agree with you that it's silly (unless there's some heretofore unexplored link between a spanking and a ten-minute IPA, in which case I take that back). But we're not, and to think that he'd have grown up around the kinds of people he did would have no impact on how he thinks about Claire seems to me a bit short-sighted.
and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person, which happens to come right around the time that trans* issues are gaining real traction in the social justice community? Come on [snip] This is just empty pandering.
I don't think he's pandering. But if he *is* it's to the shippers rather than social justice.
Could Marten get any more empty as a character? I mean, the guy's been presented as a straight man (as in the archetype) and a straight man (as in the sexuality) for the entirety of the comic, and now he's suddenly down with dating a transgendered person, which happens to come right around the time that trans* issues are gaining real traction in the social justice community? Come on. I've dated a trans*person in the past, and the first time we got naked, it was treated with much more dignity and care than it was given here. "You're beautiful"? I'll take Things That a 16 Year Old Says When Losing His Virginity for $200, Alex. This is just empty pandering.
I feel like I need to mention, as a trans woman - regardless of what genital configuration Claire may currently have, and regardless of whether or not she plans to some day have bottom surgery - which is, of course, none of our business - she is a *woman*. A man who sleeps with a trans woman in no way, shape, or form stops being straight, *regardless* of the genital configuration of that woman. Whatever she has downstairs, they're a *woman's* genitals, and last I checked, when a man and a woman have sex, that's usually considered pretty straight. Whatever Claire and Marten get up to, unless they invite a third person, it will be straight sex.
Sorry for the whole big speech, I just didn't see anybody getting this point across, and it was really important to me. I get a little militant on that point, because too many men are shamed by their friends and peers, and have their heterosexuality and identity questioned or mocked, if they date or sleep with a trans woman. It not only keeps too many of my sisters cold on lonely nights, it can also be a major driver for violence against us.
I don't think he's pandering. But if he *is* it's to the shippers rather than social justice.
[...] but because Jeph doesn't seem to want to constantly crap on any character - not even Marten.
Identity is personal. It's next to meaningless to the rest of the world. This really issue isn't a matter of how you define "woman." I'd say writing it off so simply is unfair to do define their sexuality by genital structure. It suggests that there is something wrong with their sexuality. A person with (literally) no interest is dick isn't going to suddenly gain an interest because a dick's owner identifies as a woman. The same goes for pussy and identification as a man. There are limits.
The issue is, ultimately, that everyone tends to think that their definition of "straight" (Lesbian, gay, bi, queer, trans) is THE definition. Everyone is wrong. There is no one definition. Just seven billion identities in conflict with a handful of false culutral norms.
I feel like I need to mention, as a trans woman - regardless of what genital configuration Claire may currently have, and regardless of whether or not she plans to some day have bottom surgery - which is, of course, none of our business - she is a *woman*. A man who sleeps with a trans woman in no way, shape, or form stops being straight, *regardless* of the genital configuration of that woman. Whatever she has downstairs, they're a *woman's* genitals, and last I checked, when a man and a woman have sex, that's usually considered pretty straight. Whatever Claire and Marten get up to, unless they invite a third person, it will be straight sex.
I crunched the numbers and I keep coming back to puppies and/or kittens.I'm pretty sure the correct solution is:
RF: Okay, maybe not fluidity, since you find that "clangy".
I don't find applying labels to Marten clangy. I find the need to justify his choices by appealing to his childhood clangy. As in, nobody is appealing to Faye's childhood to justify her straightness.
If there's nothing special, on a fundamental level, about being trans--if there's nothing special about being attracted to and romantically engaged with a trans person--then there's no more need to appeal to explanation with regard to Marten's sexuality than there is for Dora's, or Tai's, or Steve's, or Faye's...
Second point first: I don't think it necessarily needs to be explained (as I mentioned). That's their business, not ours. To your first point... No, you wouldn't look to Faye's childhood for clues about her approach to her sexuality. But if you were talking about her trust issues? Her alcoholism? At least one, maybe two, suicide attempts? Her casual disrespect for boundaries? The (thankfully toned down) violence? It'd be silly not to. Ditto, say, Hanners' issues, or Dora's complicated relationship with her brother and her parents (among other things). In other words, when a character's perception, attitudes and actions are clearly influenced by their past, it can be useful to examine that past and how it colors the present, and that's something that isn't in any way exclusive to sexuality. If we were talking about, say, Marten's taste in beer, then I'd agree with you that it's silly (unless there's some heretofore unexplored link between a spanking and a ten-minute IPA, in which case I take that back). But we're not, and to think that he'd have grown up around the kinds of people he did would have no impact on how he thinks about Claire seems to me a bit short-sighted.
I didn't say anything about no impacts. You seem to be having an argument with someone who isn't here.
What I said was, right or wrong, bucky's questioning of Marten's sexuality was no more or less clangy than people looking for a reason to justify Marten's sexuality. I'm not saying putting two and two together and getting "fluid," is verboten. But then neither was buckys POV verboten. Just factually incorrect.
All things being equal, given what we know, questions about what Claire has in her pants are valid by your logic. That two and two are present doesn't justify adding them. If Marten represented as a person historically oppressed for his sexuality, discussion about how his mom's job made him queer would definitely be considered bad taste.
My argument is not for "equal rights for straight people." My argument is that the discussion boils down to "What turned Marten queer?" just using different labels. Given the history of oppression that line of thinking has created, I find the discussion to be in bad taste.
I crunched the numbers and I keep coming back to puppies and/or kittens.I'm pretty sure the correct solution is:
(http://i.imgur.com/95Vu5cW.png)
Since I don't know much about Jeph; Is Marten an extension of himself?
I don't know if this is a thing or not, I'm curious.
I'm still wondering why Marten's orientation, much less anyone else's in the strip, matters.
He said once that he used to be, but that he's grown into a different person than Marten over time.
I think that while yes, they are fictional characters that don't -specifically- represent specific people, they do, in a way, become a relatable representation for some people. So while the characters themselves are fictional, the emotions that people attach to them are very real, and so react poorly when the character's sense of propriety and privacy is potentially violated, which in turn makes them feel violated by proxy. When they see people discussing things that would be rude if it was in regards to real people, the feelings and emotions of those who have attached emotions to a character and qualities that they find similar and can relate to are often just as offput when those same discussions are had about said character.I'm still wondering why Marten's orientation, much less anyone else's in the strip, matters.
Someone wrote that their sexuality is none of our business, which I absolutely do not understand. They're fictional characters, there for us to discuss and relate to. Unless they are direct representations of real people that Jeph knows, there is no harm in asking about any of it.
Discouraging debate seems very counter productive to me.
I do not understand why anyone would take offense at this, but I'd like to.
I think that while yes, they are fictional characters that don't -specifically- represent specific people, they do, in a way, become a relatable representation for some people. So while the characters themselves are fictional, the emotions that people attach to them are very real, and so react poorly when the character's sense of propriety and privacy is potentially violated, which in turn makes them feel violated by proxy. When they see people discussing things that would be rude if it was in regards to real people, the feelings and emotions of those who have attached emotions to a character and qualities that they find similar and can relate to are often just as offput when those same discussions are had about said character.
I probably explained that poorly.
>It's nice to know if you (like me) are relating to the character.
Fair enough, but I can relate to the characters no matter who they fall in love with.
Hope this clarifies things somewhat.
That's... literally totally not relevant to what I was saying.
I get a little militant on that point, because too many men are shamed by their friends and peers, and have their heterosexuality and identity questioned or mocked, if they date or sleep with a trans woman. It not only keeps too many of my sisters cold on lonely nights, it can also be a major driver for violence against us.
Someone wrote that their sexuality is none of our business, which I absolutely do not understand. They're fictional characters, there for us to discuss and relate to. Unless they are direct representations of real people that Jeph knows, there is no harm in asking about any of it.
Discouraging debate seems very counter productive to me.
It is also [a relationship] that imposed on him a duty to be open-minded in a way that was not foreshadowed in the first couple of thousand strips.
It is also [a relationship] that imposed on him a duty to be open-minded in a way that was not foreshadowed in the first couple of thousand strips.
What?
Someone wrote that their sexuality is none of our business, which I absolutely do not understand. They're fictional characters, there for us to discuss and relate to. Unless they are direct representations of real people that Jeph knows, there is no harm in asking about any of it.
Discouraging debate seems very counter productive to me.
Claire's private parts are fictional. It is the policy of this board that they aren't open for discussion. Claire is, to our knowledge, not a representation of any real person.
There are reasons Claire's equipment list is topic non-grata. I'm not going into them. But those reasons do apply to discussions relating to why a person's sexual orientation is what it is. They probably apply more deeply, but I've only been talking about that part of it, so that's the part I'm going to stick with.
There's a long and storied history of terrible things being done because people believe sexuality can be traced back to root cause. That belief is a bad thing.
I see no issue is wonder IF Marten is straight or bi or something else, at least until Marten unequivocally chooses a label. At that point I see no isse in wondering and discussing what that label means to Marten. But I see a fairly large issue in trying to define why Marten is whatever Marten is, unless Marten opens the door for that discussion.
Why give a fictional character that level of agency? Practice. How you treat a fictional character influences how you treat real people. We aren't talking about something as black and white as murder. Most of us know that killing the video game character is not practice for killing real people. Most of us have strong counter urges against murdering people. But respecting the sexuality of others doesn't have the same level of internal rejection. It's not something we practice. Given that the majority of (basically) heterosexual people is so vast, many of us will not get a lot of real world practice. But fiction let's us meet different kinds of people than we might otherwise. It's just good policy to practice on them.
Especially when that fiction puts you in a forum of fans, because odds are people who are like those fictional people will be party to your discussions. Whether people who are trans "should" take discussion of Claire's equipment personally or not is beside the point. They are here, and they do. The same applies to anyone else who might find one of the characters representative.
He bloody well has. He's a dude, he's into ladies, he's not into dudes. There's a word for dudes like that. That word is heterosexual (or, to use the modern* slang, 'straight').
I see no issue is wonder IF Marten is straight or bi or something else, at least until Marten unequivocally chooses a label. At that point I see no isse in wondering and discussing what that label means to Marten. But I see a fairly large issue in trying to define why Marten is whatever Marten is, unless Marten opens the door for that discussion.
Fair enough... it may simply be a matter of different views on the subject, personal upbringing or whatever. I think Marten's a chill frood and his "buh" Good Guy Marten personality combined with his upbringing pretty much cancels out the need to tick a particular box for his sexuality.Marten is straight/heterosexual. He is a dude, he is into ladies, he is not into dudes. That is what straight means for a dude.
Speaking as another bisexual, I'm afraid that's your personal hangup, not a matter of orientation per se.
From my own experience as a bisexual (pansexual for those who feel the distinction is necessary), I had a few moments of doubt and more than a bit of awkwardness when I was with a pre-op transwoman for the first time. Marten just being cool with it seems... off.
Why would he have made a move on her if he had any lingering doubts about whether he'd be okay with her body? He knew she was trans. He had months to consider whether it would be an issue before they got undressed, and they only got there after he (1) invited her home, (2) made a move, (3) asked her to date him, (4) explicitly told her he was okay with her being trans after she gave him a chance to bail out, (5) invited her over again, (6) threw himself at her, and (7) took her into his bedroom?(http://media.giphy.com/media/kS1aph1nPE1lm/giphy.gif)
I don't see how you could actually read the strip and still have the slightest degree of suspense over whether he would chicken out at the last minute, unless you are coming from the position that trans bodies are so weird and alienating that they would scare off any self-declared straight boy, even after he had made every possible indication over thousands of strips that he did not give the tiniest fuck.
Alright, board policy is board policy. Thank you for the explanation.
I find some of your reasoning flawed:
It bears the assumption that certain people deserve unmitigated respect regardless of their character and only based on certain aspects of them (gender, sexuality, race, political orientation or what have you), to the point where it can discourage something as simple as asking a question.
It breeds ignorance, which is the biggest problem we have when it comes to discrimination. It discourages personal responsibility and it promotes treating people like victims, which is ultimately detrimental to people with low self esteem.
He bloody well has. He's a dude, he's into ladies, he's not into dudes. There's a word for dudes like that. That word is heterosexual (or, to use the modern* slang, 'straight').
It bears the assumption that certain people deserve unmitigated respect regardless of their character and only based on certain aspects of them (gender, sexuality, race, political orientation or what have you), to the point where it can discourage something as simple as asking a question.
It breeds ignorance, which is the biggest problem we have when it comes to discrimination. It discourages personal responsibility and it promotes treating people like victims, which is ultimately detrimental to people with low self esteem.
Why would he have made a move on her if he had any lingering doubts about whether he'd be okay with her body? He knew she was trans. He had months to consider whether it would be an issue before they got undressed, and they only got there after he (1) invited her home, (2) made a move, (3) asked her to date him, (4) explicitly told her he was okay with her being trans after she gave him a chance to bail out, (5) invited her over again, (6) threw himself at her, and (7) took her into his bedroom?
I don't see how you could actually read the strip and still have the slightest degree of suspense over whether he would chicken out at the last minute, unless you are coming from the position that trans bodies are so weird and alienating that they would scare off any self-declared straight boy, even after he had made every possible indication over thousands of strips that he did not give the tiniest fuck.
I will afford people common courtesy, but I will not grant them the luxury of special privilege based on potentially hurt feelings.
Why would he have made a move on her if he had any lingering doubts about whether he'd be okay with her body? He knew she was trans. He had months to consider whether it would be an issue before they got undressed, and they only got there after he (1) invited her home, (2) made a move, (3) asked her to date him, (4) explicitly told her he was okay with her being trans after she gave him a chance to bail out, (5) invited her over again, (6) threw himself at her, and (7) took her into his bedroom?
I don't see how you could actually read the strip and still have the slightest degree of suspense over whether he would chicken out at the last minute, unless you are coming from the position that trans bodies are so weird and alienating that they would scare off any self-declared straight boy, even after he had made every possible indication over thousands of strips that he did not give the tiniest fuck.
Marten is clearly the kind of guy who's not going to freak out over it. And we're after the fact now and it's obviously worked out between them fine. But I don't know if you can answer the question of compatibility beforehand. Like, if it were me. Can I find a transgirl attractive? Yes, absolutely. Would things work in the bedroom? I have no idea. None. And I wouldn't be able to figure it out with introspection. I'd hope so, especially if it was someone I cared about. But the only way for me to know with certainty is to try and see.
to the point where it can discourage something as simple as asking a question.
Quote from: SilverzippoI will afford people common courtesy, but I will not grant them the luxury of special privilege based on potentially hurt feelings.
OK, but then you have to figure out what constitutes common courtesy in uncommon situations. Usually it includes not knowingly hurting people's feelings.
I'm not saying everyone should abandon their labels. I'm not ever sure I agree with the logic. But the conclusion is fascinating. It raises the issue of how much of attraction is representation.
And then your "behaviourally male" comment then brings a behavioral axis (or maybe more) into the measurement of sexuality, in addition to mechanical axes and the gender axis... sounds like it's time for a DISCUSS thread?
Strip 1024 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1024) makes it absolutely clear that Marten doesn't have a problem sleeping with penis-havers, he has a problem sleeping with men. In other words, his particular flavor of straightness has nothing to do with genitals and everything to do with gender presentation.
Readers: omg what is the story with Claire's stuff we need to knowwwwwwwww
Jeph: alludes with dialogue
Readers: what?
Jeph: alludes with body language
Readers: huh?
Jeph: come on you guys
Readers: but we can't HEAR you unless you say it OBVIOUSLY and TASTELESSLY!
Since I don't know much about Jeph; Is Marten an extension of himself?
I don't know if this is a thing or not, I'm curious.
Parts of all of his characters are autobiographical, to a certain point.
What particularly baffles me about all this "what's she got down there" nonsense is that QC has told us over and over again. It is perhaps right and proper that people who refuse to take the effort to parse out the subtext should be doomed to live in mystery.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
It is also [a relationship] that imposed on him a duty to be open-minded in a way that was not foreshadowed in the first couple of thousand strips.
What?
Strip 1024 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1024) makes it absolutely clear that Marten doesn't have a problem sleeping with penis-havers, he has a problem sleeping with men. In other words, his particular flavor of straightness has nothing to do with genitals and everything to do with gender presentation. Claire x Marten may seem to be forced for a lot of reasons, but contradicting Marten's on-panel statements about his sexuality is absolutely not one of them.
I will afford people common courtesy, but I will not grant them the luxury of special privilege based on potentially hurt feelings.Someone makes a statement like this and claims that other people are claiming privilege... :roll:
the use of "Body English" instead of "Body language," which took a special snowflake "five minutes to process,"I don't know the context, but on the face of it, that seems silly. However, native English-speakers, or even people like me who've been using English for a long time, should consider just how "slangy" we should be in forums where ESL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_a_second_or_foreign_language) people hang out. On the other hand ESL people should take the opportunity to improve our colloquial English, without slipping into sloppy expression ourselves, of course. :lol:
"Why do you gotta"... All those years learning your bizarre language, aspiring to speak it "like a native"... Wasted. :-D