I voted for Tai, not because I want 2-3 strips of her finding out about Marten & Claire spending the night together, but because I figure it's going to happen anyway.
Yes, but I really hope it happens off-screen and she fills in Dora or something.
I voted for Tai, not because I want 2-3 strips of her finding out about Marten & Claire spending the night together, but because I figure it's going to happen anyway.
Yes, but I really hope it happens off-screen and she fills in Dora or something.
A horrible idea just popped into my mind.. Sven could offer Faye a job! I'm not sure what kind of job it would be, but he also had an intern and found something he could occupy her with.
I voted "The Talk, Phase 2" because this time - it's Claire's turn.
I voted "The Talk, Phase 2" because this time - it's Claire's turn.Dear lord. Yes, Claire has some issues with her father that might or might not be explored - I really hope they don't, because while it's bad that your father cheated on your mother, it's no excuse to be completely immature about it well into your 20s.
I voted Dora... 'cause it's a big unexplored mess. What do the other employees think? How does it effect business? Does Dora feel guilty?Nah, that can wait. Dora has developed into a very unsymphatic person when she is in "boss mode" (which is most of the time). I guess Hanners soon will quit. Penelope will be the new assistant manager. Dale and Cosette may continue, and Dora will need to hire one or two new employees. Because the Dora/Faye interaction was the central theme at CoD, I guess CoD will play a minor role from now on.
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
Marten and Hanners presumably need to go to work sooner or later, but they would not let Faye stay unsupervised. Enter Sam (I guess school still is out for summer?). I really hope for another walk in the woods, this time with Faye and Sam. Also, Faye probably can make really good frog and snake traps. Just for the hell of it, they should release their catch at CoD.
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
Pintsize: You're making progress, this one actually let you hit it. *gets hurled across the room. By Claire.*
P.S.: I know that's extremely bad taste. It's obviously not what I'd say, at least not in this situation.
I'm a bad person, am I?
I voted Dora... 'cause it's a big unexplored mess. What do the other employees think? How does it effect business? Does Dora feel guilty?Nah, that can wait. Dora has developed into a very unsymphatic person when she is in "boss mode" (which is most of the time). I guess Hanners soon will quit. Penelope will be the new assistant manager. Dale and Cosette may continue, and Dora will need to hire one or two new employees. Because the Dora/Faye interaction was the central theme at CoD, I guess CoD will play a minor role from now on.
I voted Dora... 'cause it's a big unexplored mess. What do the other employees think? How does it effect business? Does Dora feel guilty?Nah, that can wait. Dora has developed into a very unsymphatic person when she is in "boss mode" (which is most of the time). I guess Hanners soon will quit. Penelope will be the new assistant manager. Dale and Cosette may continue, and Dora will need to hire one or two new employees. Because the Dora/Faye interaction was the central theme at CoD, I guess CoD will play a minor role from now on.
I just meant, since Jim previously considered Faye a reliable babysitter, and Sam was in the habit of going to Coffee of Doom on her own to visit her instead of Dora, Dora may have chosen to (tactfully) let Jim know that Faye isn't working there anymore and, at least for the near future, may not be the most reliable person to watch a kid. Although Sam won't have any free time with school starting soon, so maybe it won't be an issue anymore.
To make CoD/Dora a minor part of the story? I think that is too much of a shift from the focus of QC since strip 500. I may be wrong, but I don't see Jeph doing this. I like Dora as a character in this series. I feel that dropping CoD and Dora from the story would cripple Faye's character development in this arc.
I know they're not all that in to watching TV (outside of YouTube clips, anime and the occasional bad movie), but it might be about time someone turned on the TV and saw Angus.
I know they're not all that in to watching TV (outside of YouTube clips, anime and the occasional bad movie), but it might be about time someone turned on the TV and saw Angus.
It's possible that Angus might have only been gone for a few days at this stage. He's probably still working on material for the show.
SVENPOCALYPSE WHEN
It's possible that Angus might have only been gone for a few days at this stage. He's probably still working on material for the show.
Well, judging by AprilArcus's most recent timeline (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30197.msg1295777.html#msg1295777), it's been less than a week. 1811 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2811) was on Monday, Faye's firing and hospital stay were on Thursday/Friday, and today is Saturday, I think? Angus is supposed to start "next week," so by Monday night Faye might have a rude awakening...although, is there even a TV in the apartment?
So did Dora put in blue contacts b/n panels 3 and 4?
So did Dora put in blue contacts b/n panels 3 and 4?
Is strawberry blonde the lovechild of Penelope and Cosette? I think it's supposed to be Penelope but her mouth/chin looks off. :psyduck:I think it's that her mouth is too large, and the bottom lip being too full that's throwing off her appearance.
Or it could be somebody else and I'm just being dumb.
So did Dora put in blue contacts b/n panels 3 and 4?
If there were no TV, how could Marten be horrified by Woodrow (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2587)?It's possible that Angus might have only been gone for a few days at this stage. He's probably still working on material for the show.
Well, judging by AprilArcus's most recent timeline (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30197.msg1295777.html#msg1295777), it's been less than a week. 1811 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2811) was on Monday, Faye's firing and hospital stay were on Thursday/Friday, and today is Saturday, I think? Angus is supposed to start "next week," so by Monday night Faye might have a rude awakening...although, is there even a TV in the apartment?
Proof of TV: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1674 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1674)
So did Dora put in blue contacts b/n panels 3 and 4?
Also, isn't it kind of unprofessional to discuss the termination of one employee with another?
I can't quite tell, is Dora denying that she's rationalizing her decision, or just pointing out that she's rationalizing to herself?She's pointing out that she's rationalizing it to herself, and not Penny.
You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
I took the liberty of fixing todays comic.Reminds me of Garfield Minus Garfield.(click to show/hide)
To be franc, Dora has to get real about Faye's firing, and Faye will just have to pound on doors to find a new job.You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
Well, Dora already gave no quarter when she fired Faye, and she's not throwing good money after bad.
I guess you folks could say she turned her brown eye blue.
:claireface:
Is it really necessary to be so pesomistic? I mean, I know we yen for some development on the Dora front, but we don't have to expect a pile of emotional ruble.To be franc, Dora has to get real about Faye's firing, and Faye will just have to pound on doors to find a new job.You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
Well, Dora already gave no quarter when she fired Faye, and she's not throwing good money after bad.
Is it really necessary to be so pesomistic? I mean, I know we yen for some development on the Dora front, but we don't have to expect a pile of emotional ruble.To be franc, Dora has to get real about Faye's firing, and Faye will just have to pound on doors to find a new job.You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
Well, Dora already gave no quarter when she fired Faye, and she's not throwing good money after bad.
It could be worse. She could turn into Pintsize, have cake batter for dinar, then ramble on about colóns and dongs.I'd be florin it to get out of there before she went out of her gourde :psyduck:
Get rial! I'll shekel you harder than a bad balboa impression!Is it really necessary to be so pesomistic? I mean, I know we yen for some development on the Dora front, but we don't have to expect a pile of emotional ruble.To be franc, Dora has to get real about Faye's firing, and Faye will just have to pound on doors to find a new job.You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
Well, Dora already gave no quarter when she fired Faye, and she's not throwing good money after bad.
That's it, Euro-ver your limit. Dough not make me throw the buck at you.
Get rial! I'll shekel you harder than a bad balboa impression!Is it really necessary to be so pesomistic? I mean, I know we yen for some development on the Dora front, but we don't have to expect a pile of emotional ruble.To be franc, Dora has to get real about Faye's firing, and Faye will just have to pound on doors to find a new job.You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
Well, Dora already gave no quarter when she fired Faye, and she's not throwing good money after bad.
That's it, Euro-ver your limit. Dough not make me throw the buck at you.
Also, isn't it kind of unprofessional to discuss the termination of one employee with another?
I took the liberty of fixing todays comic.(click to show/hide)
Man, the puns are flying like a baht outta hell.Get rial! I'll shekel you harder than a bad balboa impression!Is it really necessary to be so pesomistic? I mean, I know we yen for some development on the Dora front, but we don't have to expect a pile of emotional ruble.To be franc, Dora has to get real about Faye's firing, and Faye will just have to pound on doors to find a new job.You can't title a comic "Change Happens" and casually bring penny back. That's just asking to be nickeled and dimed with bad puns.
Well, Dora already gave no quarter when she fired Faye, and she's not throwing good money after bad.
That's it, Euro-ver your limit. Dough not make me throw the buck at you.
You think you're pfennig, dontcha?
ala Garfield Minus Garfield? http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/page/14
ala Garfield Minus Garfield? http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/page/14
Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ, that's depressing.
Cod is also a very small workplace.
I don't know as much about workplace policy and liability when it comes to an employee being fired, but I feel like it is a good idea to tell the other employees why someone was fired. It helps establish clear consequences for certain behaviours, squelches rumors, and reassures the employees that they won't be fired without just cause.
Cod is also a very small workplace.
I don't know as much about workplace policy and liability when it comes to an employee being fired, but I feel like it is a good idea to tell the other employees why someone was fired. It helps establish clear consequences for certain behaviours, squelches rumors, and reassures the employees that they won't be fired without just cause.
It might be good for the work place, but it isn't good from a legal stand point... which is why most companies are completely silent on these types of matters.
Not to you, Penelope--to herself. Poor Dora.
...Never mind Dora's eyes, why does Penelope have orange hair?
Cod is also a very small workplace.
I don't know as much about workplace policy and liability when it comes to an employee being fired, but I feel like it is a good idea to tell the other employees why someone was fired. It helps establish clear consequences for certain behaviours, squelches rumors, and reassures the employees that they won't be fired without just cause.
It might be good for the work place, but it isn't good from a legal stand point... which is why most companies are completely silent on these types of matters.
What could happen, from a legal standpoint?
Cod is also a very small workplace.
I don't know as much about workplace policy and liability when it comes to an employee being fired, but I feel like it is a good idea to tell the other employees why someone was fired. It helps establish clear consequences for certain behaviours, squelches rumors, and reassures the employees that they won't be fired without just cause.
It might be good for the work place, but it isn't good from a legal stand point... which is why most companies are completely silent on these types of matters.
What could happen, from a legal standpoint?
Sued for defamation of character.
Sued for defamation of character.
So, out of curiosity, who still mentally pronounces Penelope like antelope? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=725)
Lat's knock it off with the money puns. It's depreciating.Really? I thought it was collecting our interest.
Looking back made me miss the hair texture stuff Jeph used to do.
So, out of curiosity, who still mentally pronounces Penelope like antelope? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=725)
As for pronouncing Pen's name, I've always heard the last three syllables pronounced as letters: "eL - Oh - Pee." But then again, I've always seen Marten spelled "Martin."
I just think of her as Pen-Pen
Who said I was rationalising it to you?
Lat's knock it off with the money puns. It's depreciating.Really? I thought it was collecting our interest.
Also, isn't it kind of unprofessional to discuss the termination of one employee with another?Well, Dora has to give some explanation, otherwise there will be endless speculation and concern. "She quit" is probably not good enough, as usually this is not an abrupt thing. "I had to fire her", without further explanation, should be sufficient. But "she was drunk at work" is decidedly unprofessional. It is Dora's damned duty not to spread rumors about former employees.
I think just about everyone's aware of how Penelope is supposed to be pronounced. It's just a callback to Faye's preferred pronunciation (Pen-Ah-lope).
Well, Dora has to give some explanation, otherwise there will be endless speculation and concern. "She quit" is probably not good enough, as usually this is not an abrupt thing. "I had to fire her", without further explanation, should be sufficient. But "she was drunk at work" is decidedly unprofessional. It is Dora's damned duty not to spread rumors about former employees.
I know the point of today's comic is Dora's trait of second guessing herself, so I kind of hope there's no backsliding on her part.
Well, Dora has to give some explanation, otherwise there will be endless speculation and concern. "She quit" is probably not good enough, as usually this is not an abrupt thing. "I had to fire her", without further explanation, should be sufficient. But "she was drunk at work" is decidedly unprofessional. It is Dora's damned duty not to spread rumors about former employees.
I imagine if Dora were thinking completely rationally about the situation she would not be saying all of this to Penelope. However, we should keep in mind that this is not just an boss firing a worker, this is also a personal issue for Dora. My guess is that she is torn between feeling like Faye betrayed her trust and feeling like she is the one who betrayed Faye (hence the rationalization). That is not a mindset that seems conducive to tactfulness.
It's also not spreading rumours: it's the truth. Faye was drunk at work, and she was fired for it.
Also, isn't it kind of unprofessional to discuss the termination of one employee with another?
I just think of her as Pen-Pen
She's talking about it an awful lot, though, and to the wrong person.
I think it's reasonable to say X is fired for the following reason: $reason because it makes a point to the staff that this happened for a reason, that the rules/policies need to be adhered to, etc.
You could still do that by saying she was fired for violating the terms of her employments contract/breaking the rules/whatever without being specific. That would underline that the rules are taken seriously, without explicitly giving too much away.
Boo, hiss. Dora should not be suffering second thoughts.
I'm inclined to agree with the idea that she's monologuing with an audience. Pen2 is basically there so she's not just talking to herself.
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
[...] especially Penelope who can't stand Faye [...]What ? Anyone got any evidence for that ?
[...] especially Penelope who can't stand Faye [...]
What ? Anyone got any evidence for that ?
[...] especially Penelope who can't stand Faye [...]
What ? Anyone got any evidence for that ?
There are two threads of evidence - Firstly, Penny is the only member of staff who has called Faye out when she becomes abusive. Secondly, when Dora made Faye assistant manager, Penny offered to quit immediately.
Personally, I wouldn't say Penny "can't stand" Faye - She wouldn't work at CoD if it was that bad. However, I would say that Penny has the worst relationship with Faye of all the members of staff.
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?) then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...
...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters! The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was. She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry. All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something. Whitman. or Whitacre. Whitaker. That's it. Whitaker.
And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes. :psyduck:
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
I know they're not all that in to watching TV (outside of YouTube clips, anime and the occasional bad movie), but it might be about time someone turned on the TV and saw Angus.
It's possible that Angus might have only been gone for a few days at this stage. He's probably still working on material for the show.
Of course, that being said, Angus being successful might trigger something of a lapse for Faye. But that's several weeks down the line, be it real time or after a time skip in the comic, but after wrapping up some of the current threads.
QuoteYou could still do that by saying she was fired for violating the terms of her employments contract/breaking the rules/whatever without being specific. That would underline that the rules are taken seriously, without explicitly giving too much away.
Except that if you do not specify which particular clause was not respected, it will lead to speculation. I think Dora is getting more heat than she deserves here. It also stresses to the other employees you can f*** up too much at the CoD, even if you are the boss' best friend.
Her tone, however, may not be the most adequate, here.
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?) then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...
...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters! The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was. She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry. All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something. Whitman. or Whitacre. Whitaker. That's it. Whitaker.
And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes. :psyduck:
No doubt Penelope probably heard about Faye being hospitalised or was wondering why Faye was taken off the roster. So she could either go straight to the horse's mouth and ask Dora what happened, or talk to Faye and get her (most likely) skewed take on the matter. And let's face it, Penelope...not Faye's biggest fan.
This also opens up the possibility of Penelope becoming the new assistant manager, as she is now the most senior person there after Dora. Although now that could mean a new strain on Dora; she's somewhat reticent on hiring people at times and this thing with Faye is a breach of trust, might just kick Dora's tendency to be overly controlling into overdrive. More hours to work to cover Faye being fired, taking on yet more work onto herself, Dora is going to suffer as much as Faye.
This also opens up the possibility of Penelope becoming the new assistant manager, as she is now the most senior person there after Dora. Although now that could mean a new strain on Dora; she's somewhat reticent on hiring people at times and this thing with Faye is a breach of trust, might just kick Dora's tendency to be overly controlling into overdrive. More hours to work to cover Faye being fired, taking on yet more work onto herself, Dora is going to suffer as much as Faye.
I would be very surprised if Dora promoted anyone else to assistant manager anytime soon, for all the reasons you mentioned. After all, look what happened when she promoted Faye. She's probably more convinced than ever that no one else can be trusted to run CoD like she does, which means she'll be putting in extra time to make sure things go right. I expect her relationship with Tai to suffer as a result - hard to keep an SO when you have no time to spend with them.
[edited for brevity]
Dora's world is already receding into a much smaller space - She already lives in Amherst, she's cut Sven out of her life, she's working a ridiculous amount of hours every day. The only people Dora seems to be close to now seem to Marten, Hanners and Tai and I'm guessing that two of them aren't going to be able to hang out as much as they used to.
Something is going to give and I suspect it's going to happen soon.
Faye has been doping really well lately, but Angus leaving has really thrown he for a loop that Dora did not foresee. Dora has been wrapped up in her own world with Tai and COD and has neglected her best friend.
[edited]I think it's a difference of culture. Firing somebody on the spot (no benefits, nothing) is seen as something normal for Americans, but other cultures have very different sensibilities. I think it's horrible that she can even do such a thing without proper procedure. (same with the insurance)
Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!
I'm running a bit hot on this issue, but seriously, it's the fourth straight week of people going "Faye's drunk! Why isn't Dora doing anything about that?!"
I think Tai is going to unload on Dora when she hears of what happened. Tai loves that they are all friends and will hate the fact that Dora and Faye are on the outs. I see her as being a game changer here. The Marten and Claire story will intertwine into this drama but be mostly on the outskirts for a bit while the Faye/Dora story is dealt with. I don't see any major character change or leaving here - they are all key to the QC family. But that's just IMHO. :claireface:I don't know about Tai - she's high on the job, so she might have a different opinion. If she offers it to Dora, or even calls her out is another matter, since the last thing she wants is an argument.
The thing is, it doesn't matter if it was in America or Europe or South Africa, Faye was fired for being in breach of contract. She was drinking on the job. That's universally something that everyone can be fired for. I've worked in bars and even if someone buys you a drink, you have to leave it until the end of shift or when the bar closes.[edited]I think it's a difference of culture. Firing somebody on the spot (no benefits, nothing) is seen as something normal for Americans, but other cultures have very different sensibilities. I think it's horrible that she can even do such a thing without proper procedure. (same with the insurance)
Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!
Saying that Dora is not a supportive friend to Faye, but not coming down JUST AS HARD on Marten for the exact same thing is such fucking bullshit.
What worries me with Penelope being told all this is that it risks to come back to Sven, through Wil. You folks remember why Dora decided to cut bridges with Sven?
Saying that Dora is not a supportive friend to Faye, but not coming down JUST AS HARD on Marten for the exact same thing is such fucking bullshit.
There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora. Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem. Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work. Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.
I feel like I keep running back to this, but I see it as an important moment, Dora seriously dropped the friendship ball there. And being shocked somehow when Faye came in drunk the next day and started drinking on the job, after having specifically told her she was going to do exactly those things, makes Dora seem stupider than we know her to be.
There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora. Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem. Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work. Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.
There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora. Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem. Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work. Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.
Marten was just as familiar with Faye's history of alcoholic behaviour as Dora was, if not more so, as he lives with Faye. Marten also came home and found Faye drunk early in the day. A day or so before that he found her terribly hung over. Why didn't he connect the dots and so something about it? Clearly Faye was crying to Marten for help just as much as to Dora. If she didn't want Marten to see her drunk she could have gone out or stayed in her room. You could argue that she wanted him to find her drunk and do something.
And saying "Marten is so wrapped up with Claire, he's distracted and didn't pick up the signals Faye was sending!" but not saying "Dora is so wrapped up with work, she's distracted and didn't pick up the signals Faye was sending" is such fucking bullshit.
I'm not saying Marten should feel responsibility for Faye's situation, or that he helped contribute to it. I am saying that Dora is just as blameless as Marten is.
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?) then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...
...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters! The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was. She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry. All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something. Whitman. or Whitacre. Whitaker. That's it. Whitaker.
And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes. :psyduck:
Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!
If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?) then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...
...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters! The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was. She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry. All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something. Whitman. or Whitacre. Whitaker. That's it. Whitaker.
And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes. :psyduck:
Seriously, what is with this idea that Faye needs to be coddled nonstop? Dora's not her keeper, Marten's not her keeper, they are her friends, not her babysitters, Dora's got a buisness to run, bills to pay, a new relationship, her life can not be all Faye, all the time, and don't forget Faye is being a pretty shitty friend herself, she LIED to her best friend who is also her boss, because at that moment the booze was more important than Dora's trust. :-(
I didn't say she shouldn't have been fired. I just say the way she has been fired seems barbaric to me. Usually, even when there's a breach of contract and the employee has to be let go, the process is way longer and less sudden, which helps if you're prone to rash decisions, as Dora is. Again, repeating, not saying that Faye shouldn't have been fired, but to be just thrown out of a business you worked for for years feels like an unnecessary cruelty to me.The thing is, it doesn't matter if it was in America or Europe or South Africa, Faye was fired for being in breach of contract. She was drinking on the job. That's universally something that everyone can be fired for. I've worked in bars and even if someone buys you a drink, you have to leave it until the end of shift or when the bar closes.[edited]I think it's a difference of culture. Firing somebody on the spot (no benefits, nothing) is seen as something normal for Americans, but other cultures have very different sensibilities. I think it's horrible that she can even do such a thing without proper procedure. (same with the insurance)
Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!
The simple thing here, when you begin a job, you sign a contract. That contract is a promise from both employee and employer about what is acceptable and unacceptable in the workplace. Faye broke the terms of that contract by drinking on the job. In the end, it was Faye and Faye alone that got her fired. Dora was in every right to fire her.
That's something else I've noticed: the prospect of legal action being taken against Dora keeps coming up. A flimsy case aside, it seems like there are people who really want to see her suffer or be punished for firing Faye. Again, kind of understandable given she's a divisive character, but extreme, and a tad silly. She shouldn't be punished for doing, as she acknowledges, what any other employer would do. Furthermore, she is already suffering, because she feels terrible about having to fire a friend.
For example: As Marten saw Faye lying there in her own vomit, the first thing he did was call his girlfriend that he might not make it to tonight's movie-date. Of course Faye's drinking-until-she-passed-out is the worse offence here, but that goes without saying. It's more interesting to talk about Marten's lack of responsible reaction.We're back to this again? At first glance, he probably thought she puked and simply fell asleep. He was close enough to see that she was breathing, and shot off a quick call to let Claire know what was up. Upon further investigation (that he was unable to rouse her), -that- was the point to be alarmed. Considering the group's drinking habits as a whole, it was a perfectly acceptable response. How many times has someone in the group puked from alcohol consumption, then slept it off?
I just say the way she has been fired seems barbaric to me.It's the US. Regarding labor, that's just how we are. Hail Reagan! :evil:
I just say the way she has been fired seems barbaric to me.It's the US. Regarding labor, that's just how we are. Hail Reagan! :evil:
Sorry for the double post, but I'd argue that Marten was an -excellent- friend for immediately calling off his date, rather than simply planning on cleaning Faye up, putting her to bed, then going off on his way. The quick call illustrated that he was putting his friend's well-being first and opting to keep an eye on her, rather than leaving her alone.
Is this when we all start chuckling like bevis and butthead saying "Yeti Jizz" over and over again? Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed my queue.Nope, the line is right where you left it :-D
Sexual jokes make explicit giggle.
The thing is, it doesn't matter if it was in America or Europe or South Africa, Faye was fired for being in breach of contract. She was drinking on the job. That's universally something that everyone can be fired for. I've worked in bars and even if someone buys you a drink, you have to leave it until the end of shift or when the bar closes.
I think with Dora and Faye, it's the betrayal of trust rather than simply the boozing at work, since CoD seems to have a fair amount on hand.
This is a nitpick, but I thought a liquor license was required to SELL liquor? technically, people can bring their own liquor as long as no one is selling it or dispensing it to minors. The store could also have a policy against it.
I know of a few restaurants that are BYOB, I thought that was so that they could get away with having liquor on premise without having a license?
Not that that changes anything about Fayes situation.
It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.
A little perspective: These are people in their early 20s with a well-established collective lifestyle of drinking immoderately, especially in reaction to disappointments romantic and otherwise. It's true that Faye has been, from very early on, the one with the biggest problems and the biggest appetite for Kentucky corn juice, but to expect her friends to react to her post-Angus binges with interventions and such is simply not realistic. Say what you will about it, but that sort of hyper-responsible-adult course of action is not one that typical 20-somethings take. It's easy in hindsight to say "Why didn't they help her?!" In the moment, people have episodes like this (up to the hospitalization, not including) and people of that demographic roll with it, maybe worry a little, but not take concrete steps.
Yes, I'm generalizing like crazy here. I'm sure there are exceptions. But this is coming from my own experiences as a 20-something service industry employee in Northampton who had an extended social circle not at all unlike that in QC. Marten's and Dora's (non-) reactions strike me as completely realistic, and lamentable only after the fact.
It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.
Yeah, I was reading in the news that in Boston on Sunday there was two bigfeet of snow. :claireface:
...
...I'll get my coat
It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.
Yeah, I was reading in the news that in Boston on Sunday there was two bigfeet of snow. :claireface:
...
...I'll get my coat
NO NO, stay inside! (unless you're into Sasquatch bukakke, in that case go have fun. :mrgreen:)
What's he gonna do about it, finish him off again? That clearly hasn't worked.
EDIT - I just thought of something, he's a bird, why's he hanging out in jizz when he can just fly? That's what does it, this comic now doesn't make any sense.
Can YOU fly with jizz on your wings?
It's the US. Regarding labor, that's just how we are. Hail Reagan! :evil:
, I'm wondering how long it will take Jeph to tunnel back into his house after being away for so long? I wish that I was joking, but I'm not!
, I'm wondering how long it will take Jeph to tunnel back into his house after being away for so long? I wish that I was joking, but I'm not!
About 2 hours if he can borrow this:
This is a nitpick, but I thought a liquor license was required to SELL liquor? technically, people can bring their own liquor as long as no one is selling it or dispensing it to minors. The store could also have a policy against it.
I know of a few restaurants that are BYOB, I thought that was so that they could get away with having liquor on premise without having a license?
Not that that changes anything about Fayes situation.
"If your yeti ejaculations last longer than four months, consult your climatologist."
I bet Sweet Tits is under there somewhere...
As a native North Carolinian now living in Massachusetts, I am laughing, laughing, laughing. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Not laughing at you, of course. Just kind of laughing in your general direction.
As a native North Carolinian now living in Massachusetts, I am laughing, laughing, laughing. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Not laughing at you, of course. Just kind of laughing in your general direction.
I, on the other hand, am quietly glaring towards the south.
Well looks like Yelling Bird is in his element.Naw, too much wang for the win.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Clinton in one of this week's strips. It's going to be really interesting to see how he reacts.
And whether Claires mom has to go 'Frypan' on him.It's been too long since we've had some good pan violence (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=697) in QC.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Clinton in one of this week's strips. It's going to be really interesting to see how he reacts.
CLINTON: "Where the hell were you last night?"
CLAIRE: *GLOWS*
CLINTON: *Facemelts*
Of course, it could also be a test of if Mommy Augustus still thinks that "he seems like a nice boy..." :-o
Maybe they all just wanted Claire to get laid, you dunnoNah, If anyone that family NEEDS to get laid it's Clinton. You don't want a guy with a mechanical hand to go nuts because of sexual frustration, that's how super villains are created.
Maybe they all just wanted Claire to get laid, you dunnoNah, If anyone that family NEEDS to get laid it's Clinton. You don't want a guy with a mechanical hand to go nuts because of sexual frustration, that's how super villains are created.
Also, today's strip: dawwwwwcutecouplewwwww
Hey, just because he got that hand thing going on doesn't make him a supervillain. Stereotypes hurt everybody Stephen.Maybe they all just wanted Claire to get laid, you dunnoNah, If anyone that family NEEDS to get laid it's Clinton. You don't want a guy with a mechanical hand to go nuts because of sexual frustration, that's how super villains are created.
Also, today's strip: dawwwwwcutecouplewwwww
Especially if his hand was set to "autonomous" mode.
Damn... why is he so smooth with Claire and so tongue tied with everyone else?
Especially if his hand was set to "autonomous" mode.
On another note, can you imagine Clinton and Emily sex? So weird it'll make Veronica squig out.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Clinton in one of this week's strips. It's going to be really interesting to see how he reacts.
CLINTON: "Where the hell were you last night?"
CLAIRE: *GLOWS*
CLINTON: *Facemelts*
Also, it's too bad Jeph decided to keep yesterday's Yelling Bird strip up and numbered instead of just temporary filler. That would've made this comic #2898 and saved #2900 (with whatever potential drama that entails) for Friday.
The only thing going that may trip them up is working together, and 'that trans thing', which Marten has shown repeatedly isn't an issue for him. So yeah.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Clinton in one of this week's strips. It's going to be really interesting to see how he reacts.
CLINTON: "Where the hell were you last night?"
CLAIRE: *GLOWS*
CLINTON: *Facemelts*
Also, it's too bad Jeph decided to keep yesterday's Yelling Bird strip up and numbered instead of just temporary filler. That would've made this comic #2898 and saved #2900 (with whatever potential drama that entails) for Friday.
There's no need to go Raiders of the Lost Ark on Clinton, now...
A lot of the conversation on these threads has been around the question of whether or not some of our society's less trans-friendly elements should be incorporated into the comic for the sake of realism. I just wanted to say that I really love the positive portrayal in these comics of Claire and Marten's relationship, and that setting a standard is just as important as recognizing reality.
Or is it a problem on my end and I'm reading more into it than there is?
Or is it a problem on my end and I'm reading more into it then there is?
And before anyone starts complaining that things are too perfect between them (I just had to check out the subreddit, didn't I? Blech), don't worry, I'm sure Jeph will find a way to add some conflict to their relationship--he's just making it clear that Claire's trans* status won't be the cause of it."Too perfect" may be a problem here. It is cute, of course, but sooner or later we get tired of that. Perfect couples are not very interesting if you want to tell a story. Therefore, I would guess Jeph has plans for serious Claireten conflicts sometime in the future. In the meantime, Claireten might fade away a little (same as MariDale), and the storyline focusing on other characters (Faye/Hanners/Sam/Dora/Sven?).
<Wall of heartwarming text>Welcome new person! And let me say that for a first post, this was one of the best I've read in a long time. I think you hit the nail head on when it comes to Marten and Claire's relation.
PS: First time poster ;)
PS: First time poster ;)Welcome, Khazgar! You are the voice of reason. I hope for many more posts from you.
...so why can't we just respect Claire and Marten (and through them, all other real-life trans/cis couples) and allow them their privacy?
...so why can't we just respect Claire and Marten (and through them, all other real-life trans/cis couples) and allow them their privacy?
So what your saying is, Jeph has every right to "discuss" a topic/explore an issue via an open forum like a webcomic, and his fans don't have the same "speaking right" to discuss or explore similar issues?
Thats.....not right.
...so why can't we just respect Claire and Marten (and through them, all other real-life trans/cis couples) and allow them their privacy?
So what your saying is, Jeph has every right to "discuss" a topic/explore an issue via an open forum like a webcomic, and his fans don't have the same "speaking right" to discuss or explore similar issues?
Thats.....not right.
I really, desperately want to emphasize that Marten just said:
"I'm not being passively cool with things, I'm being actively happy with them."
This is about the most explicit, blunt, stated evidence of character growth that sums up this entire character arc.
As in Marten has grown as a character.
Revel!
It kind of feels like 'We're not going to talk about it, but we're talking about it' again and it feels like that vagueness is making it hard to read.
I mean, I'm breaking the rules talking about it, but..they're talking about it in comic aren't they? So, I guess I'll spoil it for warning to anyone who doesn't want to read it. And if the post gets deleted I'll understand.(click to show/hide)
Or is it a problem on my end and I'm reading more into it then there is?
...so why can't we just respect Claire and Marten (and through them, all other real-life trans/cis couples) and allow them their privacy?
So what your saying is, Jeph has every right to "discuss" a topic/explore an issue via an open forum like a webcomic, and his fans don't have the same "speaking right" to discuss or explore similar issues?
Thats.....not right.
So anyone else hope Clinton or Martens mom shows up in in the next few strips? I'm hoping Martens mom shows up more, though his dads rock as well. Heck yeah! Two dads!
Aside from Claire, it seems as though her family doesn't exactly get the whole "boundries" bit.
Oh, it's a family-wide affliction alright! Remember Claire's faux pas? "I don't know, are you dumb?" and "I don't take orders from home-wreckers!" Tact and boundaries just aren't an Augustine Family thing. :lol:Yes, Claire has some less desirable traits, that can very well lead to conflicts with Marten's friends (or with Marten) in the future. Clinton may also contribute. In many ways, Claire and Clinton act as immature brats. They are QC's version of Gavia and Ardent.
Possible scenario: After Tai has finished squeeing, she might become tired of Claire and Marten fornicating on the copying machine.
So anyone else hope Clinton or Martens mom shows up in in the next few strips? I'm hoping Martens mom shows up more, though his dads rock as well. Heck yeah! Two dads!
Claire and Marten arrive at the Augustus residence. Claire decides to show Marten her room. When they go upstairs, Mrs A steps out of her room in a negligee and squeaks in embarrassment. Marten, being Marten, is embarrassed but cool with it.
"Spitfire, who is it?" calls a voice that is so familiar that Marten and Claire forget all propriety. They peek in the room to see Jim and Veronica in the maternal Augustine bed.
TRAUMA COEFFICIENT: 250% AND RISING
Can't tell if he's just drawn better than usual this strip, or if Marten saying awesome things makes him better looking.
I mean, I know that happens in real life, I just never expected to experience it with a webcomic.
I'm immune to Marten/Claire squee, but I can't even see what's squee worthy in this strip. It's frankly the lamest I've seen in months.
Yup, me too. I'm not a fan of trashy romance novels, and I'm not a fan of this 'oh-they-are-soo-perfect-with-each-other-stuff' *squee*. I think it's fine that there are couples that are good with each other, but you don't need to show every boring step.
Once again, I guess I had a totally different reaction to this comic than most people. I found it basically a worthless throwaway that doesn't advance plot or characterization.
It's odd, because Jeph said he was moving away from dialogue-heavy strips. Marten gets a ton of dialogue in this strip. But it's basically just a long-winded way of saying "I'm really into you." The strip does not seriously have exposition about Marten's feelings more broadly. He could have said he was exposed to a lot of trans people through his mother as a child, and he never thought about it seriously - until he met Claire and it all changed. Because he sees her as a person first - a person he's crazy about. Instead he talks mush.
This just feels like a retread of their first talk. Claire asks if he's okay, Marten reassures her, and she is beaming at the end. I'm immune to Marten/Claire squee, but I can't even see what's squee worthy in this strip. It's frankly the lamest I've seen in months.
My reaction to this strip was more or less the same as to the post on Jeph's tumblr... "wow, he must have been getting an absolute deluge of questions on this topic." The amount of exposure to the variety of (everything) that one gets even with just regular exposure to webcomics in this vein and occasional forum perusals is drastically different than someone who is only immersed in mass market media, similar to how someone whose radio is turned to a politically active (or even aware) station or who follows even a single political blog will have a view of the world completely different from someone who is only exposed to the bare minimum and mostly follows pop culture.
The creator of a work like QC is going to be immersed in questions and discussions (and demands, rants) that can overwhelm the perspective of a reader who is fairly blasé about the issues and is more interested in the funny, conflict, or storytelling. This feels more like an exorcism of the response he's getting so as to be able to cleanly cut to a new story than anything required for the story itself.
Wow, that's really sad if true. And it shows a huge limitation of serial-format stories in the digital age. Think about how terrible many of the classics would have been if each chapter was submitted to the public in turn, and the dialogue and plotting changed slightly in response. It might make for popular stories, but it wouldn't make for superior ones.I may be misreading this (I don't think the coffee is working so well today), but many of the classics were published that way (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_%28literature%29).
I may be misreading this (I don't think the coffee is working so well today), but many of the classics were published that way (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_%28literature%29).
The internet is different, because you have basically instant critique thrown back at you as an author. Indeed, the amount of criticism on the internet may surpass original content by at least an order of magnitude. If you give in to the critique - if you give the fans what they want rather than what you have planned - you're on a slippery slope towards a "market study" view of storytelling. You're producing a product.
This entry from Jeph's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/568129988324499456) is probably not good news for everyone, based on the comments I've seen (especially this evening).
Wow, that's really sad if true. And it shows a huge limitation of serial-format stories in the digital age. Think about how terrible many of the classics would have been if each chapter was submitted to the public in turn, and the dialogue and plotting changed slightly in response. It might make for popular stories, but it wouldn't make for superior ones.
I'd like to think that Jeph is paying no heed to the collective voice of the internet (or the forum even) when plotting out the strip. It's okay if he gets the seeds of particular ideas from individuals - that's how creativity works. But ultimately he needs to be telling his story - and not the story the audience is clamoring for him to tell - in order to have the strip reach its full potential.
I'm loving how "boring" and "normal" Marten's and Claire's relationship is. Sometimes that's just how it goes down in real life—regardless of the type of people involved.
...so why can't we just respect Claire and Marten (and through them, all other real-life trans/cis couples) and allow them their privacy?
So what your saying is, Jeph has every right to "discuss" a topic/explore an issue via an open forum like a webcomic, and his fans don't have the same "speaking right" to discuss or explore similar issues?
Thats.....not right.
That is not what's happening.
Jeph has been approaching everything trans-related with taste and respect. Jeph, the mods, and the community are only asking for the same from the fans.
I don't mind how the relationship is, but I don't like strips being written to show this. You could take away these strips and we'd still get it. It just feels like a waste.
That is not what's happening.
Jeph has been approaching everything trans-related with taste and respect. Jeph, the mods, and the community are only asking for the same from the fans.
But the strip can't escape the unsightly issues that come with such things. It's better to educate than just sweep it under the rug.
Dennis Miller once said, "We all like to think we're beautiful and unique snowflakes, but when we're alone we all do the same stupid shit."
He was just talking about the condition of being human, at that moment. I think it applies to the condition of being human. Strip a work of references to its time, and you find it applies as much now as did when it was written. Kids these days has a storied history dating back to ancient Greece (the popular quote on the subject actually dates to 1907, but if you look up the context, it stands as a summary of a number of Greek educators complaining about how kids used to be more studious and respectful).
If the kids have always been... well... kids, it follows that the fans have always been fans. The internet only allows more fans to connect more rapidly. It's not that it's changed what we are. It's just allowed us to be alone together with millions of like minded souls. Our same stupid shit is amplified, but it isn't fundamentally different.
Now, about Claire's sex tackle, there are three points that I think bear mention. First, all animals may be equal, but some animals are more equal than others. This here is Jeph's house. If he wants to draw on the walls in marker, he can do that. You have to ask permission. If he says "no," that it. You just to get to watch him draw on the walls, but you get no marker for yourself. If you want a marker, get your own house. You can then discuss the content of Claire's pants to your heart's content. Invite like minded friends! Enjoy the power of denying them access to the markers!
Second, there's nothing necessarily prurient about genitals. That's just a social construct. Like gender or heterosexuality. We have (and by "we" I mean us, including me) some exceptionally dangerous post-Victorian hangups about this whole sex thing. That these hang ups exist is at the root of the discomfort the subject of Claire's anatomy invokes. I propose to do exactly nothing about that aspect. I'm not going to erase nigh 200 years of puritan thought with a pithy comment in webcomic fandom. But I can shine the harsh light on it. Getting bent out of shape about the existence of vaginas and pene costs lives. For some bizarre reason, we tend to think that other people's bit are our business. I mean that in a narrow sense. If we only kept to our own business, it would be a lonely world. But there's a difference between knowledge and ownership of business. I might ask what kind of peanut butter you use. That's really none of my business, unless I mean to eat some of it. But it's not a gross violation of anything, either. Genitals are like that. Most people have them, and you aren't going to eat the vast majority of them. (Also, some people are violently allergic to them.) Knowledge doesn't imply action.
But the flipside of the puritan hang up is the fact that majority confuses knowledge with action. The majority thinks, "I know this thing, so I must do something about it." "Or I know this thing and I find it distasteful, so I must punish those who gave me this information, even though I asked for." To quote another wise man, "a person is smart. People are dumb panicky animals, and you know it."
So, the board policy is the best policy among no great options. But it's important, IMO, to remember that the side-eye given to people with potentially justifiable curiosity is actually a symptom of the underlying pathology that make the policy necessary.
Third--I have said this before, but it deserves repeating until it stops being true--nothing in QC has served as even a useful hint about the configuration of the junction between Claire's legs. Everything is wholly consistent with whatever interpretation you choose to be your headcanon. In/out/none. Whatever you want, the comic supports.
It's possible that Jeph knows the answer (I happen to agree with Christopher Nolan; if you don't intend to tell the audience, you still need to tell yourself. Otherwise you risk injecting nonsense into the story). It's also possible he doesn't. But, so far, nothing in the comic has given a clue, one way or any other.
If a definitive clue ever does drop, the forum rules make this exactly not the place to discuss it. I understand the temptation. When Claire took her pants off, my first thought was that a definitive clue had dropped. Further reflection convinced me that nothing had changed, but there was a moment. And in that moment, I wanted to run my thoughts by a group of people who had the necessary background to vet them. But I didn't, because the rules say that's not cool.
Item's one, two, and three come together at that point. There's nothing definitive. Even if there had been, humanity isn't ready for a rational discussion on the subject for a variety of reasons. Even if humanity was ready, it's Jeph's house and in Jeph's house we do not talk about Fight Club--er the specifics of people's pants cargo. It's not cool. It's not cool when the n00bs do it, it's not cool when the trolls do it, and it's not cool when vets point to the marks on Jeph's walls and try to use them as justification for their own impromptu impressionist phase.
/rant
Wrong. These strips could be taken away and you would still get it. Unfortunately, idiots abound.
I'm loving how "boring" and "normal" Marten's and Claire's relationship is. Sometimes that's just how it goes down in real life—regardless of the type of people involved.
I don't mind how the relationship is, but I don't like strips being written to show this. You could take away these strips and we'd still get it. It just feels like a waste.
Keep in mind folks, the intimate moments between Marten and Claire have been no different than those between any other couple in the comic. There was lead up, a bit of clothes-on foreplay, some kissing and implication of more to come. Then a fade to black at the end of a strip, and the next day is post-coital cuddling. It has always been the same, and probably always will be. It's the things that Jeph doesn't show that we shouldn't be talking about. We don't discuss what Dora and Tai get up to. We didn't talk about what Faye and Angus liked to do. We don't speculate on what Claire and Marten do. That sort of thing is to intimate, to personal and not a place the comic goes to. The same respect should be had when discussing the comic.
Once again, I guess I had a totally different reaction to this comic than most people. I found it basically a worthless throwaway that doesn't advance plot or characterization.
It's odd, because Jeph said he was moving away from dialogue-heavy strips. Marten gets a ton of dialogue in this strip. But it's basically just a long-winded way of saying "I'm really into you." The strip does not seriously have exposition about Marten's feelings more broadly. He could have said he was exposed to a lot of trans people through his mother as a child, and he never thought about it seriously - until he met Claire and it all changed. Because he sees her as a person first - a person he's crazy about. Instead he talks mush.
This just feels like a retread of their first talk. Claire asks if he's okay, Marten reassures her, and she is beaming at the end. I'm immune to Marten/Claire squee, but I can't even see what's squee worthy in this strip. It's frankly the lamest I've seen in months.
I just thought of this, the fact that Claire may cause some issues between Marten and Claire. Not because Marten has issues with Claire being trans but Claire, this being her first boyfriend, subconsciously thinking Marten is just humoring her. So far Claire is approaching this right by talking out her concerns, hopefully that continues. (The reason this came to me is one of my best friends is trans and she said she ended up screwing up a good relationship due to worrying about her partner being weirded out by her being trans despite him repeatedly tell her he was cool with it. Eventually the constant worrying drove a wedge between them.)
BTW I think they are a cute couple so I hope this works they both deserve happiness.
But the strip can't escape the unsightly issues that come with such things. It's better to educate than just sweep it under the rug.
Prepare forum... prepare forum for ludicrous squee! Fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo!
And Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped) (Warning, TVTropes link)Wrong. These strips could be taken away and you would still get it. Unfortunately, idiots abound.
I'm loving how "boring" and "normal" Marten's and Claire's relationship is. Sometimes that's just how it goes down in real life—regardless of the type of people involved.
I don't mind how the relationship is, but I don't like strips being written to show this. You could take away these strips and we'd still get it. It just feels like a waste.
Also, this.
Nasty though the world is, it is still actually not all nasty. You seem to be denying the validity of representing the possibility of coming across some behaviour that's not totally awful. It may not be typical; but being reminded that there are things better than the typical is also educational and may be encouraging.
This entry from Jeph's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/568129988324499456) is probably not good news for everyone, based on the comments I've seen (especially this evening).
Kaity, bar the door!Prepare forum... prepare forum for ludicrous squee! Fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo!
It's going to go into plaid.
better to educate
Wrong. These strips could be taken away and you would still get it. Unfortunately, idiots abound.
For the "everyone but me is stupid" crowd, there are any number of libertarian polemics disguised as science-fiction webcomics. Try the forums of Quantum Vibe or Quentyn Quinn Space Ranger.
Speak for yourself, I don't claim to be the smartest (fart noise), but an I.Q. Of 156 says I'm sure as hell not stupid."People who boast about their IQ are losers."
Everyone's been squeeing for a solid two weeks. The cuteness is making me boil over in manly rage.Here's some Manly Guys Doing Manly Things for you. (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/)
I'm seeing what some of you are saying about these strips lacking character/plot advancement, having too much dialogue/cuteness, and overall acting as boring filler. But I think it's a good thing that there are so many strips about Marten and Claire just hanging out together. It's a depiction of a relationship between a trans person and a cis person, and I could be totally wrong about this, but I feel like it's a nice thing for trans people to see a representation of themselves being handled in a totally casual way - it's important that we have this emphasis on the relationship because it really secures the fact that just because Claire is trans, it doesn't mean Marten has to treat her any differently than he would have treated Dora, or Padma, or any other girl he's had feelings for. Thoughts?
These strips stand out from the comic because of their content and style, sure, but I can definitely see where Jeph is coming from. Also, Claire and Marten are cute as fuck together, and I'm down with that.
Don't worry, next week we'll move on to more of Faye, including her going back into therapy with a new therapist...
....YELLING BIRD!!
So about the complaints about the lack of drama and character advancement, this part of the story is the setup to the drama. Particularly today's comic: it's setting up Claire's uncertainties about their relationship, which will likely be the basis of future drama. Y'all just aren't noticing it because it's buried in squee.Glad to see I'm not the only person to notice that. This is Claire's first relationship and a lot of her uncertainties are going to be come to the fore over the next few weeks and months.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to do more manly things.
Keep in mind folks, the intimate moments between Marten and Claire have been no different than those between any other couple in the comic. There was lead up, a bit of clothes-on foreplay, some kissing and implication of more to come. Then a fade to black at the end of a strip, and the next day is post-coital cuddling. It has always been the same, and probably always will be. It's the things that Jeph doesn't show that we shouldn't be talking about. We don't discuss what Dora and Tai get up to. We didn't talk about what Faye and Angus liked to do. We don't speculate on what Claire and Marten do. That sort of thing is to intimate, to personal and not a place the comic goes to. The same respect should be had when discussing the comic.
Can we still make crude jokes at least? :-(
Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.
Can we still make crude jokes at least? :-(
Only about butts.
Not specific butts, mind you. Just butts in general.
You can only have so many penis jokes unfortunately.
The day I can't make a joke about penis is the day I stop saying things in general.
EDIT - My name is Explicit for a reason, you can't take away my toilet humor!
Speak for yourself, I don't claim to be the smartest (fart noise), but an I.Q. Of 156 says I'm sure as hell not stupid.
yn dod i ben cefn
Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.
He couldn't take the initiative. Claire has a plus +6 Dex bonus, Improved Initiative, and she rolled a 20.
Dang, Marten got caught flat-footed then! Will this encounter be the end of our favourite Bard/Cleric?Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.He couldn't take the initiative. Claire has a plus +6 Dex bonus, Improved Initiative, and she rolled a 20.
Can we still make crude jokes at least? :-(
(If that was already asked, I apologize... haven't read through everyone's responses yet today.)
Can we still make crude jokes at least? :-(
(If that was already asked, I apologize... haven't read through everyone's responses yet today.)
Fun fact: treating a trans* person better than you would anyone else is still sexist! Just like taking measures against 'sounding racist' would still be racist. I would say go for it, but I'm certain the admins would argue against me.
Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.
Fun fact: treating a trans* person better than you would anyone else is still sexist! Just like taking measures against 'sounding racist' would still be racist. I would say go for it, but I'm certain the admins would argue against me.How about he's treating her better because he likes her more? And I think you might have meant to say, treating a trans person better because they are trans. Yeah, it's sexist, but I also don't think that's the case. Being understanding and flexible for her isn't sexist. It's compassionate.
QC's energy eigenvalue is very precisely known, and as a result of the Heisenberg uncertainty relation its uncertainty in time is very large.Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.
No, it still works. According to Jeph, QC is set in both 2006 and the present, whenever that happens to be, so all cultural references made in any particular are always up-to-date. No matter when it was written, it's always Now.
This just in: Within the next 10 comics everyone in QC dies. Pintsize watched "The Terminator".
May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners). At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.
May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners). At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.
May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners). At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.
(http://www.robotplunger.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bender.jpg)
That said......
(http://i.imgur.com/p9dbHMY.jpg)
Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.
The Andrea James link called it rarely used.
There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?
Zoe?
Don't worry... he's fighting a Chaotic Good Wood Nymph Enchantress... She's not going to hurt him. Much.
The Andrea James link called it rarely used.
There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?
and gnomes are dumb.How mean....
Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.
THERE WILL BE GNOMERCY!!!!(http://home.comcast.net/~k.faber/worldofdavidgnome4.jpg)
It also reminds us that she isn't perfect
This doesn't make me happy. This doesn't make me feel like this is the start of a new relationship. This feels like Marten and Claire found each other on the rebound after a single drunken night and are desperately trying to convince themselves and each other that they are happy with each other and belong with each other and everything is absolutely fine! THE RELATIONSHIP IS PERFECT! NO ONE SHALL EVER BE ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP EVER! THE FIRST TIME FOR CLAIRE WILL BE WONDERFUL! NO AWKWARDNESS! NO ONE SHALL EVER DO ANYTHING BUT SQUEE AND SHIP THE PAIRING! THERE WILL BE NOTHING OF INTEREST IN THIS RELATIONSHIP ASIDE FROM GLURGEY SACCHARINE CUTENESS! YOU WILL SQUEE AND YOU WILL ENJOY AND THAT WILL BE ALL!
I want the old Claire and Pintsize relationship back. The one where Pintsize holds the paddle, with big puppy eyes, wanting to spank Claire, and Claire indulges him because honestly, it's harmless fun, right? Not LOOOM YOU SHALL NOT SAY ANYTHING PERVERTED TO MY GIRLFRIEND EVER. Claire's a big girl. She can handle that little dweeb.
Has it occurred to anyone that this is exactly what Jeph wants as an atmosphere in the comic right now? From his Tweets, I get the impression that he is in a particularly good place, relationship-wise right now. That happiness and optimism will inevitably be reflected in his work.
Be human, people. Let him enjoy it! :-)
I have never heard the word CIS used in a neutral or positive connotation I get the fact that Claire is not using it in a negative but the word itself is just.....
:meh:
I have never heard the word CIS used in a neutral or positive connotation I get the fact that Claire is not using it in a negative but the word itself is just.....
:meh:
Everything you said is something I think we all expect, but it hasn't happened yet. So in this regard, while many agree, patience is what is called for.
DrClef, you make some very good points. But I make one to challenge all of what you said. Yet. Everything you said is something I think we all expect, but it hasn't happened yet. So in this regard, while many agree, patience is what is called for. Especially if you binge read the comic and are still somewhat new. You want more, we all do. Many relationships start out in that haze of surrealism and blinders. Why would this one would be any different? Give it time. I am sure there will be drama ahead. If you've read since the beginning, no upside is without it's down.
Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh.
Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh.
You and I must use different definitions of what a monologue is.
I don't want drama. I like Claire and Marten being a stable couple. I just want them to act like a pair of adults instead of a couple of starry eyed teenagers. Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh. Talk like human beings instead of bad fanfic writers deciding that the best way to show what a character is thinking is to have them explain, at length, exactly what their emotions are.
I mean, compare this to the other couple whose relationship quickly became sexual after the young woman walked out of her bedroom to find her love interest with a plate of pancakes in the kitchen. Dale and Marigold didn't go into long-winded rants about how they've put aside their differences and worked past their problems and were now friends and lovers. Dale just needed to cook some pancakes and get dragged off to bed by Marigold.
I guess that's the crux of my problem. Jeph has spent a lot of time TELLING us that Claire and Marten are a perfect couple, but they have DONE precious little to show that.
I still urge patience. Which doesn't always mean how long we wait, but what we do and how we handle the wait. :)This line alone should be put somewhere where everyone could see it.
An entire comic consisting of a character talking at length in response to a short question? Yeah, I call that a monologue.
I still urge patience. Which doesn't always mean how long we wait, but what we do and how we handle the wait. :)
Has it occurred to anyone that this is exactly what Jeph wants as an atmosphere in the comic right now? From his Tweets, I get the impression that he is in a particularly good place, relationship-wise right now. That happiness and optimism will inevitably be reflected in his work.
Be human, people. Let him enjoy it! :-)
I'm sincerely happy for Jeph if that's the case.
These comics still suck.
It's a bit uncanny how many of those pages follow this EXACT pattern, and I'm sick of it.
Has it occurred to anyone that this is exactly what Jeph wants as an atmosphere in the comic right now? From his Tweets, I get the impression that he is in a particularly good place, relationship-wise right now. That happiness and optimism will inevitably be reflected in his work.
Be human, people. Let him enjoy it! :-)
I'm sincerely happy for Jeph if that's the case.
These comics still suck.
I'm still of the opinion that this is all a dream sequence. It's to perfect. Marten had evolved into the perfect boyfriend. It's...matrix-y.
I'm taking a bet that it's all a single-malt-prompted dream sequence.
I could see that happening. But that'd bee a hell of a whiplash.
Also, something about the comic (and sorry if this comes out a bit wrong): Does Claire saying that she's never shared her fears and insecurities and bad days and all that with a cis guy mean that Clinton is also trans? Because I'm pretty sure that's something you'd want to share with your brother.
I want to find out more than just how cute Claire and Marten are. I want to find out how Claire feels about the Faye Fiasco. I want to see Marten dealing with the little issues that come up when a cis male dates a trans woman: and there ARE issues. Even the nicest, sweetest, most understanding guy in the world WILL have issues because every real relationship has issues.
Why, thus far, is this topic being approached so differently?
I want to find out more than just how cute Claire and Marten are. I want to find out how Claire feels about the Faye Fiasco. I want to see Marten dealing with the little issues that come up when a cis male dates a trans woman: and there ARE issues. Even the nicest, sweetest, most understanding guy in the world WILL have issues because every real relationship has issues.
Yeah, this is pretty much where I am. I find it hard to believe that marten has no further questions, concerns, issues at this point. I mean, okay, maybe today there aren't any questions because afterglow, but to imply (as has been implied) that there aren't any at all...? Like DrClef said - it's not that Marten isn't understanding, easygoing, all that jazz. But when starting a trans/cis relationship, there will be issues.
In that vein - could it be considered irresponsible not to address these types of issues up to this point? I mean, if the point is to give life and breadth and depth to this relationship, to really create a voice that most of us aren't hearing - oughtn't there be a responsibility to address things in a more nuanced way? So far, neither Marten nor Claire have shown any real trepidation about their endeavor together minus a few jitters. Do either of them have the wherewithal/self-awareness/life experience to simply dive into this new and distinctly unique (to them) situation, no questions asked? Wouldn't the general public be better educated by a more nuanced and detailed path forward?
Jeph has dealt with many other topics so powerfully and effectively - alcoholism, suicide, anxiety, depression, civil rights. Why, thus far, is this topic being approached so differently?
I'm seeing what some of you are saying about these strips lacking character/plot advancement, having too much dialogue/cuteness, and overall acting as boring filler. But I think it's a good thing that there are so many strips about Marten and Claire just hanging out together. It's a depiction of a relationship between a trans person and a cis person, and I could be totally wrong about this, but I feel like it's a nice thing for trans people to see a representation of themselves being handled in a totally casual way - it's important that we have this emphasis on the relationship because it really secures the fact that just because Claire is trans, it doesn't mean Marten has to treat her any differently than he would have treated Dora, or Padma, or any other girl he's had feelings for. Thoughts?
Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.
Epic rant.
...with a cis guy
am I wrong or is this the first time we saw marten start the relationship so to speak? I am pretty sure that Dora started the relationship with him. I don't 100 percent recall the other coffee girl offhand but i feel like she kind of made the moves to start it, but it was a while so i guess i need to go back and read again. Although that one night stand i think he kind of made the first move but i don't count that.
I'm glad there are still some folks enjoying Clairten, but I need a break from this plot line. Interactions I would find more interesting:Agreed. Fortunately, today's strip seems to be a temporary closure on the Claire/Marten cuteness. Let us hope they do not reappear in the next 200+ strips, and that AprilArcus' wishes come true. :mrgreen:
Dora vs. Tai on Sven & Faye
Dora vs. Sven
Faye vs. Sven
Angus says goodbye to Marigold
Momo goes on a date
Claire vs. Tai on transfeminine vs transmasculine experiences & trans women at Smif
Faye & her family on addiction and life choices
Band practice
... really, just, absolutely anything at all.
I GET it already. Marten is the perfect boyfriend for Claire. Claire thinks he's handsome and wonderful. And the first ten times this was made clear, I liked it. But around the ice-cream kisses mark, it started seriously getting old.Another soulmate. We have had enough. Time to move on, and get the sweetness out of our bodies.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
Look at it this way, we're seeing the relationship in the "Lovey-dovey" stage, where it's all cutesy and happy and everything about the other person is new and fresh. That stage doesn't last forever and when it ends, both people start seeing the flaws in the other (and sometimes themselves). It's when a relationship gets to that stage that it's really decided if it can continue or not.
There's no conflict now, but that doesn't mean there won't be any in the future.
Agreed. But then again, Claire's character has had much less of a lobotomy after they started dating than Marten. To me the most interesting thing she said was that she had never opened up about her issues to a cis guy. This implies she has transwomen (or perhaps cis-women) friends which have not been seen in the comic. More characters ahoy?
Yeah, this is pretty much where I am. I find it hard to believe that marten has no further questions, concerns, issues at this point. I mean, okay, maybe today there aren't any questions because afterglow, but to imply (as has been implied) that there aren't any at all...? Like DrClef said - it's not that Marten isn't understanding, easygoing, all that jazz. But when starting a trans/cis relationship, there will be issues.
The other thing is, I wonder if Claire might get sick of being coddled, worried that Marten doesn't see her as an equal, because she's not as experienced as his past partners.Hopefully when Claire relaxes a bit, Marten will stop coddling her so much. It's early days yet - give them time!
I understand people's complaints, but I have a hard time caring because smiling Claire is BestClaire.
More seriously, though, what I'm seeing in some of these complaints boils down to a demand that this relationship play out exactly like every other relationship has in the story. Why would we want that? Variety is the fuel for a more interesting story. I'm also seeing demands for "complicated, intelligent depictions of relationships," but I'd argue that what we're seeing here is every bit as "real" of a relationship* as one founded with the help of a robot and a hologram. Just because this one has less "drama" doesn't make it devoid of narrative content, or character growth (which is also of importance in a story.) Just because it's a happier, more optimistic start doesn't make it any less "intelligent," nor less "complicated."
It's been suggested before that Marten's early exposure to all the stuff his mother did means he genuinely has no hangups about it. He's seen it all before, and knows too well that there are no limits or rules about what people should or shouldn't or might want do to have sexy fun together. All that matters to him is people's personalities and characters.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
It's been suggested before that Marten's early exposure to all the stuff his mother did means he genuinely has no hangups about it. He's seen it all before, and knows too well that there are no limits or rules about what people should or shouldn't or might want do to have sexy fun together. All that matters to him is people's personalities and characters.
I don't buy it (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=457) that he escaped home with zero hang-ups about trans people. We saw him work through a bit of that (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30235.msg1277848.html#msg1277848) with Tai and Dora, but he was still daunted (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2803) about starting a relationship with Claire as recently as strip 2803. It isn't until 2804 that confidant, smooth, ideal husbando Marten fully takes over.
It's been a long time for me, on account of being married and stuff, but I suddenly remembered what the first few days/weeks of a new relationship are like. Especially one that grew out of a friendship from pals to co-flirters to lovers.
This is pretty much what it's like.
I think maybe we all need to take a step back and chill - this is gradually edging closer and closer to stereotypical tumblr territory.
We saw him work through a bit of that (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30235.msg1277848.html#msg1277848) with Tai and Dora
First, it's useful to remember that there's a significant disconnect between comic time and calendar time.
Second, it's useful to remember that, in life and in stories alike, it ain't all drama all the time.
Third (he points out for the second, maybe third time), when you're juggling multiple story arcs, you need something to leaven the drama.
I think that half of y'all won't be happy unless the entire cast dons sackcloth and ashes (except Hanners, because she'd be freaked out probably), and commences the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. Verily, wailing shall be in all the streets, 'cause, you know, verisimilitude.
I think maybe we all need to take a step back and chill - this is gradually edging closer and closer to stereotypical tumblr territory.Edge? It dove.
I could see that happening. But that'd bee a hell of a whiplash.
Also, something about the comic (and sorry if this comes out a bit wrong): Does Claire saying that she's never shared her fears and insecurities and bad days and all that with a cis guy mean that Clinton is also trans? Because I'm pretty sure that's something you'd want to share with your brother.
First, it's useful to remember that there's a significant disconnect between comic time and calendar time.
Are you telling me this?
Second, it's useful to remember that, in life and in stories alike, it ain't all drama all the time.
Third (he points out for the second, maybe third time), when you're juggling multiple story arcs, you need something to leaven the drama.
I think that half of y'all won't be happy unless the entire cast dons sackcloth and ashes (except Hanners, because she'd be freaked out probably), and commences the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. Verily, wailing shall be in all the streets, 'cause, you know, verisimilitude.
I think maybe we all need to take a step back and chill - this is gradually edging closer and closer to stereotypical tumblr territory.Edge? It dove.
I love how I read the first page of this thread and it was super informative and well-considered, and then I jumped to the last page and it was people throwing "privilege" around like it was a javelin. I'm sure I missed something useful/important in between but I don't have the time or energy to read this stuff much so it is what it is.
6. Explaining these things is getting really, really old.
Let's look at those story arcs, in the 2800-2899 period. Jeph wrote:
- 2 strips of Claire talking about something other than Marten
6. Explaining these things is getting really, really old.
..... Never before have you been in a position to understand the frustration more.
I was trying to imply the frustration of being trans and being expected to explain things over and over. I wasn't invalidating the past... :/6. Explaining these things is getting really, really old.
..... Never before have you been in a position to understand the frustration more.
It's: "really, really, old" - as in: "yes, we really have been here before!"
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I almost jumped in and tidied up Aziraphale's formatting but was afraid of misquoting someone in the process.
That's pretty much the most disturbing bit of analysis I've seen in this thread.
Try not to think about the fact that your mind is hurt because it hurt your mind. Such thoughts will hurt your mind as they are recursively tautological due to tautological recursion.Are we starting a meta-dialogue about the conversation we aren't supposed to be having here? Because the recursion level there has reached the recursion level there.
What we talk about when we talk about not talking about Claire
Okay, time to go read Kant. That hurt my mind.
That's pretty much the most disturbing bit of analysis I've seen in this thread.
OMG yes!
Marten clearly has had a role outside of his relationship with Claire over the last 100 strips, even if it's mainly been to be a good friend to Faye. Claire seems to be heading in the direction of totally failing the Bechdel Test as a character.
Hell, even Padma, who was just a fling, more or less, had more independent agency from Marten while we saw her. She had Elliott-related drama, grandmother drama, the weird fight scenes with Faye, etc. She wasn't a passive vessel, which is the vibe I'm getting off Claire. Or more properly, both of them when together, but we don't get to see Claire much when she's not with Marten.
The problem I have with the recent failures of writing is that all of this is happening with CLAIRE.
What I loved about Claire was how well she fit in to the group. She was basically just another character in the group. Oftentimes I'd completely forget that she was trans at all: like the wedding arc. It wasn't until she got back and had that conversation with Clinton that I remembered "Oh yeah. . . that would actually have the possibility of being dangerous for her."
But the moment she has a relationship with Marten it felt like she wasn't allowed to be Claire any more. Instead she had to be "ICONIC TRANS FEMALE CHARACTER." And Marten had to be "PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDING CIS MALE BOYFRIEND." Because this wasn't just another relationship. This was CLAIRE'S RELATIONSHIP! And it is big and important and significant and we need to make sure everyone knows that this is perfect and without problems and spend thirty pages on it and bleh.
Whereas: imagine how much more powerful the message would be if Jeph just handled it the same way he handled the start of other relationships? The message then would be "Trans-Cis relationships are just the same as any other: the issues can be different, but the relationship is the same."
Like. . . why did #2900 need to exist? Claire is going to have bad days? Of course she is. Everyone has bad days. I want to see Claire have a bad day and have Marten cuddle and support her. That's how a good writer would have handled it.
Hell, that's how JEPH would have handled it. He said more about Marten and Faye's relationship in a single hug in #2816.
I think it's unfair to characterize the critics of Clairten as wanting to see them break up for the sake of drama. A lot of us shipped the two and were happy as hell when they got together. But looking back at the entire arc, it felt self-indulgent and saccharine, and I seriously hope that it's over.
I'm okay with that. What's done is done, and people will feel the way they want to. I'm just trying to help others understand why some of us who are unhappy with how it turned out feel that way, and why it's not just 'boohoo I hate happiness gimme drama.'The problem I have with the recent failures of writing is that all of this is happening with CLAIRE.
What I loved about Claire was how well she fit in to the group. She was basically just another character in the group. Oftentimes I'd completely forget that she was trans at all: like the wedding arc. It wasn't until she got back and had that conversation with Clinton that I remembered "Oh yeah. . . that would actually have the possibility of being dangerous for her."
But the moment she has a relationship with Marten it felt like she wasn't allowed to be Claire any more. Instead she had to be "ICONIC TRANS FEMALE CHARACTER." And Marten had to be "PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDING CIS MALE BOYFRIEND." Because this wasn't just another relationship. This was CLAIRE'S RELATIONSHIP! And it is big and important and significant and we need to make sure everyone knows that this is perfect and without problems and spend thirty pages on it and bleh.
Whereas: imagine how much more powerful the message would be if Jeph just handled it the same way he handled the start of other relationships? The message then would be "Trans-Cis relationships are just the same as any other: the issues can be different, but the relationship is the same."
Like. . . why did #2900 need to exist? Claire is going to have bad days? Of course she is. Everyone has bad days. I want to see Claire have a bad day and have Marten cuddle and support her. That's how a good writer would have handled it.
Hell, that's how JEPH would have handled it. He said more about Marten and Faye's relationship in a single hug in #2816.
I think it's unfair to characterize the critics of Clairten as wanting to see them break up for the sake of drama. A lot of us shipped the two and were happy as hell when they got together. But looking back at the entire arc, it felt self-indulgent and saccharine, and I seriously hope that it's over.
I disagree with much of what you say, but DAMN you say it well.
Yeah, I'm really sick of people ignoring the points we make and then going "But why do you hate to see Marten/Claire happy?!! Do you just want teh Dramaz all of the time?"
If that is all you're getting from the walls of text we're spewing out, then you're missing several important somethings.
I do find it funny that just because they haven't had any problems yet people keep kind of assuming they won't have any in the future. It's a relationship guys, something bad's going to happen eventually, calm down.
I've never been in a relationship that immediately had problems, otherwise I probably wouldn't have dated that person.
Who says I want problems? I want personality.
I can't be cavalier?
Well, crap.
Paladin it is, then.
I can't be cavalier?
Well, crap.
Paladin it is, then.
Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats :psyduck:
It's been that long since I played. We're on what? Ed. 5 now? :/Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats :psyduck:
True 20? I haven't looked at those rules in a while.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL THESE NUMBERS DO, BUT IT SCARES ME.
I really want to make a joke--I think it's funny as hell--but...
Your strawmen. They are made of straw. You've been told that there are places in the Discuss section where you can ask, comment, or otherwise raise the issues you speak of. There's one rule (relevant to the topic). "Not in the Comic forum." How hard is that?
I'm seriously asking, because it feels like you're trying to make martyr out of yourself. Like you are trying to get banned or something, just to prove something. Yet people keep telling you there is place for that. It just a short scroll down the forum.
You know, has a WCDT been locked BEFORE Friday's comic before?
Who says I want problems? I want personality.
Well, you got it! In today's strip, Claire nearly outright states that she's been walking on eggshells because she doesn't know how to 'do' relationships. She's so uncomfortable that she's been measuring out her actions very carefully, afraid of scaring Marten off.
The response is like I said too bland; there doesn't even appear to be some pang of apprehension or even him admitting that "Oh, I had reservations at first, but then...." and go on about how he's okay with it. Add some damn friction. It doesn't have to be earth shattering; people have faults. Your no better than the next person. Claire should at least be reassured that Marten had some sort of "quandary" of some sort, be told about it, and then told he's now okay with her.
Was Claire walking on eggshells in 2891?No, she was stomping the shit out of them. Similar to ripping off a band-aid holding your guts in and hoping for the best. I think the stuttering "W-well, this-this is me" is akin to putting everything out there.
The strip before the current one is the perfect example of what i'm trying to get at: I am seriously wondering why Marten gave Claire that bland response when she asked in it's most distilled form: "Hey, don't you feel kinda weird dating someone who is trans?" Now I know someone is gonna point out "wait, you broached the genitalia issue!!" when I didn't; the question is open ended and I never even guessed or implied either way.
The response is like I said too bland; there doesn't even appear to be some pang of apprehension or even him admitting that "Oh, I had reservations at first, but then...." and go on about how he's okay with it. Add some damn friction. It doesn't have to be earth shattering; people have faults. Your no better than the next person. Claire should at least be reassured that Marten had some sort of "quandary" of some sort, be told about it, and then told he's now okay with her.
Like I said, the comic can't have both; they can't approach a topic, yet say certain things are off limits. It hurts the entire topic as a whole, and it needs to be better managed.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".
i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.
o.O your avatar fit this.. almost.. perfectly (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1276)i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.
kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it. maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's a damn mascot convention and they tell me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".
i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.
I'm going to respond to just this. Why does there have to be a "pang of apprehension" Why does he have to have reservations? Why does there need to be friction? Maybe since he's okay with it, that friction isn't needed. But you're also missing the friction that is there in the form of Claire's uncertainty and apprehension. Believe it or not, no friction IS a quandary. It's unheard of in most relationships alone. Throw your presumptions and expectations for a trans/cis relationship into the mix and what you have is a very lovely surprise. Because you're complaining about the lack of friction where you expect it to be... (I think that was Jeph's intent)
The last D&D edition I played was 3.5 (wouldn't touch 4e with a 10-foot pole), and all the stats were pretty much d6 rolls (I think our DM had us roll 5d6 and drop the lowest - it's been a while).It's been that long since I played. We're on what? Ed. 5 now? :/Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats :psyduck:
True 20? I haven't looked at those rules in a while.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".
i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's anthrocon all day long telling me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!
This reminds me of an old history teacher who was in the habit of calling me "Mark," or occasionally "Brian" (neither of which is my name) because, as she would say every damn time, "You look like a Mark (or Brian)." It's not like she didn't know my name. It's not like it wasn't right there in front of her in black and white in her grade book. Remembering to call someone what they are, by the terminology with which they identify themselves, is as easy as remembering their name. It's also common courtesy.
But if that's asking too much... well, pleased to meet ya, Sparky.
So, speaking personally, I don't think that I wanted there to be friction per se. But presuming that Jeph is telling this story in part to be didactic, it would have helped things IMHO if Marten had a bit more of "everyman" in him in these interactions, and was a little bit less of a magical love gentleman.
i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.
Or maybe her mom made it quite clear that she ships this.
The words "assignment" and "presentation" are precision tools.
I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to educate.
i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's anthrocon all day long telling me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!Quote from: AziraphaleThis reminds me of an old history teacher who was in the habit of calling me "Mark," or occasionally "Brian" (neither of which is my name) because, as she would say every damn time, "You look like a Mark (or Brian)." It's not like she didn't know my name. It's not like it wasn't right there in front of her in black and white in her grade book. Remembering to call someone what they are, by the terminology with which they identify themselves, is as easy as remembering their name. It's also common courtesy.
But if that's asking too much... well, pleased to meet ya, Sparky.Quote from: OmegaEntityI think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to encourage education, acceptance, and understanding.
Think of it like a cliff face - sure, the determined are going to be all 'fuck you rock wall, Imma climb you like a mofo!', but for the vast, vast majority, they'll throw up their hands and take the path of least resistance -i in this case, they fall back on language that they know and are familiar with, and is easy to understand. Thus the importance of having bite-sized information to hand-feed the less-inclined masses. They're much more likely to make an effort, if they don't feel like it's an impossible endeavor to figure out what is the 'proper' word choice.
You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to educate.
Let's see if I can still do this from memory
I me my mine
thou thee thy thine
ye you your
it its one
he him his
she her hers
we us our
they them their
And of course changes for tense.
Expect people to struggle with anything not on that list, which is to say anything that hasn't entered general usage. Also expect problems with the T words, second person informal has mostly dropped from the language.
Language evolves as understanding evolves (and thank God for that). What I think can tend to complicate things is that it's not just the out-group (in this case, cis/het/etc. people) trying to keep up or figure this stuff out. As IICIH points out, the terminology evolves toward precision, which is always going to be not only more accurate, but probably also less hurtful, to the people on the receiving end of that terminology.Oh, I certainly try, and i will adapt if asked. I was simply trying to elaborate on what CM might have been trying to get at. I don't think they meant any kind of disrespect, but only that it can get a bit overwhelming at times. I myself tend to overthink things, and then worry that I said something wrong and then the person hates me. But I digress.
And sure, it's difficult. Hell, I've lost track of the number of proper descriptors for Americans of African descent that have been acceptable use just in my lifetime, and I'm not even that old. But if you care about people -- and while I'm aware I can come across like an asshole sometimes, I try to be kind and respectful to folks -- then you make the effort, regardless of the level of difficulty. Besides, like the rock climber in your metaphor, it gets a hell of a lot easier the more you do it.
mmm... poutine...You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
Fries with Tomato Sauce!
Frak!!!
NOW I'm frelling hungry again!!!
*Glowers menacingly*
mmm... poutine...You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!Fries with Tomato Sauce!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
Frak!!!
NOW I'm frelling hungry again!!!
*Glowers menacingly*
You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
Fries with Tomato Sauce!
Frak!!!
NOW I'm frelling hungry again!!!
*Glowers menacingly*
It's a relatively quick and easy way to communicate that you're not an enemy and that you care enough to pick up some vocabulary.
NOW I'm frelling hungry again!!!I skipped this but I must stop and give it the credit it deserves. Someone that used Frell... well lets just say there aren't enough Farscape fans and I think that could be the friction some people are wanting in Clariten. Claire is actually a Nebari and Marten is a silly Delvian. Stick them in a peacekeeper prison and watch the sparks fly!!!!
*Glowers menacingly*
I will cook you a meal in exchange for one unmelted lugwrench
I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to educate.
this is what i meant yes.
I...was not expecting the amount of aggression people responded to my comment with. or the presumptions that i was against the terminology. i must admit it was a little upsetting.
i had no idea that simply mentioning that i occasionally have trouble keeping track of language when the shifting social norms to a more accepting and open stance so as not to accidentally offend people by using the wrong word at the wrong time is something as this is something i am very self conscious of as i as a person get very paranoid about the notion i might hurt someones feelings with my actions because i partially on the autism spectrum and have extreme difficulty gauging the body language of others and how they react to what i say or do and then not realize i did something wrong until its too late and we're increasingly living in a diverse and wonderful world full of colourful expressive people able and willing to be themselves that i support fully with all my heart would cause trouble.
maybe i should have just typed all that from the beginning. i am so sorry if what i said genuinely upset someone
Oh, I understand entirely. This business of consciously working hard to do the right thing in an unfamiliar situation, and getting treated as an enemy over simple mistakes? But every time I start to gripe to myself about the work, I remember how much easier I have it than the people I'm talking about.
Besides, "biologically male" is way more confusing than MAAB(*). Jargon can actually be easier.
(*)Male Assigned At Birth. It means that the delivery room doctor put "male" on the birth certificate.
I will cook you a meal in exchange for one unmelted lugwrench
Would warped allen wrenches suffice?
Oh, I understand entirely. This business of consciously working hard to do the right thing in an unfamiliar situation, and getting treated as an enemy over simple mistakes? But every time I start to gripe to myself about the work, I remember how much easier I have it than the people I'm talking about.
Besides, "biologically male" is way more confusing than MAAB(*). Jargon can actually be easier.
(*)Male Assigned At Birth. It means that the delivery room doctor put "male" on the birth certificate.
For you or Kugai? Only one of you has been trying to corner the unmelted lugwrench market.
For you or Kugai? Only one of you has been trying to corner the unmelted lugwrench market.
For me of course. No more unmelted Lugwrench's. I cornered the market long ago and they all get shipped to a garage in Buffalo next to the souls.
For you milady I shall prepare a feast.
Edit: Also--and I'm not joking here, just to be clear--I find "Americans of African decent" incredibly offensive. That may seem random, but I expect it will make my point for me.
I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to educate.
this is what i meant yes.
I...was not expecting the amount of aggression people responded to my comment with. or the presumptions that i was against the terminology. i must admit it was a little upsetting.
i had no idea that simply mentioning that i occasionally have trouble keeping track of language when the shifting social norms to a more accepting and open stance so as not to accidentally offend people by using the wrong word at the wrong time is something as this is something i am very self conscious of as i as a person get very paranoid about the notion i might hurt someones feelings with my actions because i partially on the autism spectrum and have extreme difficulty gauging the body language of others and how they react to what i say or do and then not realize i did something wrong until its too late and we're increasingly living in a diverse and wonderful world full of colourful expressive people able and willing to be themselves that i support fully with all my heart would cause trouble.
maybe i should have just typed all that from the beginning. i am so sorry if what i said genuinely upset someone
(which I've failed at twice today :-\ ).
@jakedebacher basically I wouldn't ask mods to change anything about that place, I just need to not go there.
Edit: Also--and I'm not joking here, just to be clear--I find "Americans of African decent" incredibly offensive. That may seem random, but I expect it will make my point for me.
Please accept my apologies; if I'd thought I'd offend ANYone by saying that, I wouldn't have said it.
You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!Fries with Tomato Sauce!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
Frak!!!
NOW
I'm frelling hungry again!!!
*Glowers menacingly*
I will cook you a meal in exchange for one unmelted lugwrench
Edit: Also--and I'm not joking here, just to be clear--I find "Americans of African decent" incredibly offensive. That may seem random, but I expect it will make my point for me.
Please accept my apologies; if I'd thought I'd offend ANYone by saying that, I wouldn't have said it.
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
That isn't the point, and I'm not holding it against you. The point is, there's literally nothing you could have said there that someone like me couldn't have found offensive. The only way to win is not to play. Except, if you refuse to play, everyone loses. So maybe, just maybe, it is incumbent upon me, as the oppressed party, to not give you a hard time for failing to beat the Kobayashi Maru.
Just sayin'
Okay, who *hasn't* howled at a wolf video or a werewolf film? Show of hands, please.
First one to find a nominee for the video that Emily was watching gets a fabulous no-prize.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKYotRZNiZ0
First one to find a nominee for the video that Emily was watching gets a fabulous no-prize.
are these new backgrounds?
... All right. I actually like #2901.
Hopefully we see more of this and less of 2900. :)
are these new backgrounds?
Jesus! How do people pull these up so quickly! I've read through QC 3 times, but you can be damned sure I don't remember the backgrounds!
they're almost to the library, but I really hope we're not in for a week of Tai squeeing over them yet again. Like Aziraphale says, please be coda.
Okay, who *hasn't* howled at a wolf video or a werewolf film? Show of hands, please.
(crickets)
Howl do we do it? We wolf down the comic every day, then when we see a background again the memory dogs us until we hound out the source. :clairedoge:Jesus! How do people pull these up so quickly! I've read through QC 3 times, but you can be damned sure I don't remember the backgrounds!
We spend time howling at the backgrounds.
Howl do we do it? We wolf down the comic every day, then when we see a background again the memory dogs us until we hound out the source. :clairedoge:Jesus! How do people pull these up so quickly! I've read through QC 3 times, but you can be damned sure I don't remember the backgrounds!
We spend time howling at the backgrounds.
New angles on these (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2367), probably.
New angles on these (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2367), probably.
And dangit, the direct comparison to the third panel and todays last panel has me missing Magic Claire Hair again.
Actually, I could see Dora saying something rude upon being told what's up. (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30492.0.html)
Here is a conundrum for you. How can you tell if a person who normally is weird is acting weird? Is it "bluer than usual today"? Or "she's acting normal... that's weird!" In Emily's case, the answer is, of course, "grapefruit".
So today's strip has something for everyone - Marten and Claire, but no-one being or doing anything particularly cute AND the potential for future drama. Maybe we can all calm down for the weekend now?
I'd be interested to know people's opinions on the cast's reactions to Claire coming out. Someone suggested that Faye might have an adverse reaction, but I'm not sure if I see that.
The Andrea James link called it rarely used.Not me. I'm still not a member of a "trans community" even if one exists here. Never have been.
There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?
Zoe?
Howling along with the wolves on YouTube is not weird!
Back to topic and just to repeat my predictions up-thread:
- We're being set up for Claire to be accidentally outed to someone, most probably Tai (who may have already guessed that Claire is a trans-woman because she's met some before but innocent Emily will blurt it out to her, upsetting Emily more than Claire);
i'm almost wondering if circumstances will lead to Marten and Claire at Tai's rave orgy, perhaps to "protect the library" in Claire's "BOOKS=SRS BSNS" mindset.
while their a drunken student is going to mistake her for a party goer, ask her why she isn't nude for the orgy yet and in a good natured way "help" by yanking her trousers down, in front of every.
maybe going too far for jeph, but it's a possible scenario[/list]
The Andrea James link called it rarely used.Not me. I'm still not a member of a "trans community" even if one exists here. Never have been.
There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?
Zoe?
The first reference to Zissexualismus is from 1919 I believe, so is roughly contemporary with Transsexual. Neither word was in common use until later, but Transsexual came into common parlance long before Cissexual. I'd not heard the latter term 10 years ago, but it was as obvious in both derivation and need for a term as Intrasex is, as the opposite of Intersex.
"Intrasex" is rarely used too. Heck, many people still haven't heard of "Intersex".
Cisvestitismus was used even earlier, 1914. It's sorta obvious.
(http://i.imgur.com/IEd7Exc.jpg)
Eh, regarding the Dora thing, I was more thinking a bit of short verbal sparring that's resolved a strip or two later more than world-shaking drama. The word was "rude" not "bridges burning in the distance".
are these new backgrounds?
New angles on these (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2367), probably.
Edit: And panel 1 shows up in the last panel of 2366. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2366)
I seem to recall first coming across the term "intersex" in a Judith Butler book. Butler being notoriously difficult, I didn't fully understand the concept. I've never heard of intrasex. Can anyone define?Glad you asked.
An intersex person may have the biological attributes of both sexes or lack some of the biological attributes considered necessary to be defined as one or the other sex. Intersex is always congenital and can originate from genetic, chromosomal or hormonal variations. Environmental influences such as endocrine disruptors can also play a role in some intersex differences. People who are intersex may identify their gender as male, female or X
I seem to recall first coming across the term "intersex" in a Judith Butler book. Butler being notoriously difficult, I didn't fully understand the concept. I've never heard of intrasex. Can anyone define?Glad you asked.
There's a wiki article on the subject that's pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
The legal definition in Australia - which I'll quote since I and many others came up with it as something we could all live with, even if imperfect:QuoteAn intersex person may have the biological attributes of both sexes or lack some of the biological attributes considered necessary to be defined as one or the other sex. Intersex is always congenital and can originate from genetic, chromosomal or hormonal variations. Environmental influences such as endocrine disruptors can also play a role in some intersex differences. People who are intersex may identify their gender as male, female or X
I for example identify as female. Convenient, as I'm being treated for "severe androgenisation of a non-pregnant woman".
Intra is the opposite prefix to Inter. Thus someone who is not Intersex is Intrasex. Meaning they have the biological attributes, and all of the biological attributes, of one sex or the other, not both, not neither. The case for most (98.3%) humans on the planet.
For more, see the relevant pages in the DISCUSS thread.
I seem to recall first coming across the term "intersex" in a Judith Butler book. Butler being notoriously difficult, I didn't fully understand the concept. I've never heard of intrasex. Can anyone define?Glad you asked.
There's a wiki article on the subject that's pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
The legal definition in Australia - which I'll quote since I and many others came up with it as something we could all live with, even if imperfect:QuoteAn intersex person may have the biological attributes of both sexes or lack some of the biological attributes considered necessary to be defined as one or the other sex. Intersex is always congenital and can originate from genetic, chromosomal or hormonal variations. Environmental influences such as endocrine disruptors can also play a role in some intersex differences. People who are intersex may identify their gender as male, female or X
I for example identify as female. Convenient, as I'm being treated for "severe androgenisation of a non-pregnant woman".
Intra is the opposite prefix to Inter. Thus someone who is not Intersex is Intrasex. Meaning they have the biological attributes, and all of the biological attributes, of one sex or the other, not both, not neither. The case for most (98.3%) humans on the planet.
For more, see the relevant pages in the DISCUSS thread.
I'm glad you posted that. All I found for intrasex was sexual selection, and it didn't sound applicable at all.
I don't see Dora freaking out about Marten dating Claire because of those girl-with-a-penis comments. A) that was a long time ago. B) Dora knew even then that it was a crazy fear because of her insecurities over relationships. C) Dora knows what the breakup was about... her insecurities over relationships. D) Dora has a girlfriend now who she has shown nothing but happiness with and is in general more calm about her relationship fears these days. And finally E) She's been actively trying to push Marten back into the dating pool again of late.
6. Explaining these things is getting really, really old.
I've never been in a relationship that immediately had problems, otherwise I probably wouldn't have dated that person.
Why not just put up a sticky? That way, people can refer to that.
Hey now, I rocksemble that remark.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ad/Fred_Flintstone.png/165px-Fred_Flintstone.png)
Hey now, I rocksemble that remark.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ad/Fred_Flintstone.png/165px-Fred_Flintstone.png)
Do you mean like the stickies that are already up about the subject, that nobody reads or pays attention to?a) I don't see a sticky about the definitions of "cis-", "trans*" and other basics. It sounded that's what you were complaining about explaining for the umpteenth time.
There may have been some surgical removals.I THOUGHT WE SAID NO GENITALIA TALK
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
All things considered, being accused of following either traditional masculinity or femininity is pretty damn insulting.
I tend to agree with Elizabeth Hungerford about the C-word. https://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/
Edit: I should be more clear. Hungerford's reasoning goes beyond the simple who's really 100% conformable with gender roles but it is the suggestion, along with the idea that trans people get to apply a label to another group that people are just expect to accept. They don't care for a lot of words people have applied to them after all.
b) If there were (or is) such a sticky, why not just post a link to it when someone asks a question. Problem solved.
Two Monty Python references in one thread, awesome. Let's leave no stone unturned lest we get the pointed sticks out.
Quote...with a cis guy
Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?
I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.
All things considered, being accused of following either traditional masculinity or femininity is pretty damn insulting.
I tend to agree with Elizabeth Hungerford about the C-word. https://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/
Edit: I should be more clear. Hungerford's reasoning goes beyond the simple who's really 100% conformable with gender roles but it is the suggestion, along with the idea that trans people get to apply a label to another group that people are just expect to accept. They don't care for a lot of words people have applied to them after all.
I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women. I don't know if you read all the comments but here is one of her responses:
"The concept of a cis/trans binary effectively REVERSES the power dynamics between males and females on the axis of gender.
It suggests that a male person’s subjective and VOLUNTARY self-identification as a “woman” can nullify his experiences of membership in the class of people who are privileged at women’s expense.
Further, it suggests that subjective and voluntary self-identification can actually render him (now her) MORE oppressed than the “other” women in the class he alleges to have joined!"
Being trans is not voluntary. Whether or not one chooses to transition, identifying as a woman isn't a choice.
I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women.
Anyone that uses phrases like "Women born women" and argues that a word which describes people who aren't trans is somehow offensive, as if dark is bad description for the absence of light; is nothing more than a twatwaffle not worthy of your time, respect, or patience in the first place.
Here is a conundrum for you. How can you tell if a person who normally is weird is acting weird? Is it "bluer than usual today"? Or "she's acting normal... that's weird!" In Emily's case, the answer is, of course, "grapefruit".
This may just be me but I'm sensing a trajectory here to these three strips that, to a greater or lesser extent, allude to Claire's trans status. I'm thinking that she's going to be outed to someone by mistake or someone will guess, Marten or Emily will confirm and, either way, there will be an awkward morning at the library. I'm thinking Tai who may, unintentionally, push boundaries tactlessly in an attempt to appear accepting. Tai then possibly sets off a chain reaction by talking to Dora without permission.Actually, I could see Dora saying something rude upon being told what's up. (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30492.0.html)
Yes, Dora may have a specific issue regarding Marten dating a trans-woman, no matter how non-serious the issue seemed to me at the time. We all know Dora has a reserve of insecurity and, even though Marten was kidding, Dora might still remember and fret on whether it was a cause of problems between them.
Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life. People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it. And then more come, and more still. All asking the same question or questions. So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question. Over and over and over. Everyday of your life for years. Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you? Does any of that seem rational?Welcome to retail.
Re: Dora... I doubt if she'd think much of it, one way or the other. She thought he was vanilla, and as far as we know, he's still every bit as vanilla as he was before.
Re: Dora... I doubt if she'd think much of it, one way or the other. She thought he was vanilla, and as far as we know, he's still every bit as vanilla as he was before.
Well he may not be kinky, but I'll be you dollars to donuts our favorite firey redhead can come up with a practical application for his shibari skills (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1302). I think Marten would make a credible service top if he put his mind to it!
Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life. People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it. And then more come, and more still. All asking the same question or questions. So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question. Over and over and over. Everyday of your life for years. Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you? Does any of that seem rational?Welcome to retail.
Or maybe it'll figure in his showdown with Clinton. "Behave yourself and MAYBE I'll untie you."
i'm almost wondering if circumstances will lead to Marten and Claire at Tai's rave orgy, perhaps to "protect the library" in Claire's "BOOKS=SRS BSNS" mindset.
while their a drunken student is going to mistake her for a party goer, ask her why she isn't nude for the orgy yet and in a good natured way "help" by yanking her trousers down, in front of every.
maybe going too far for jeph, but it's a possible scenario[/list]
Short answer: No.
Long answer: NO NO NO NO NO.
I hope that helps.
Howling along with the wolves on YouTube is not weird!
Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life. People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it. And then more come, and more still. All asking the same question or questions. So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question. Over and over and over. Everyday of your life for years. Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you? Does any of that seem rational?Welcome to retail.
Yes, I remember those fun days. "where is this item?" Slowly turn 90 degrees and look at the shelf immediately to my right or left. "right there?"
The worst example of that though wasn't technically retail. I lived in Ocean City, MD for many years. For those that don't know, it's a penninsula, averaging about 2-4 blocks wide at most point. The number of people who asked me 'where's the beach?' is staggering. You can literally see the ocean 80% of the time you are out doors....
Or maybe it'll figure in his showdown with Clinton. "Behave yourself and MAYBE I'll untie you."
That happened once! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1909)
Oh if I was paid? That's a different story. But I'm not. The only thing I can hope for is that by answering a question here or there, that one day someone won't try bash my skull in cause I answered their mothers question and she raised them just a little bit better. Idealistic I know... a girl can dream though right?Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life. People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it. And then more come, and more still. All asking the same question or questions. So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question. Over and over and over. Everyday of your life for years. Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you? Does any of that seem rational?Welcome to retail.
I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women.
Anyone that uses phrases like "Women born women" and argues that a word which describes people who aren't trans is somehow offensive, as if dark is bad description for the absence of light; is nothing more than a twatwaffle not worthy of your time, respect, or patience in the first place.
thank you. *hugs*
Oh if I was paid? That's a different story. But I'm not. The only thing I can hope for is that by answering a question here or there, that one day someone won't try bash my skull in cause I answered their mothers question and she raised them just a little bit better. Idealistic I know... a girl can dream though right?Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life. People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it. And then more come, and more still. All asking the same question or questions. So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question. Over and over and over. Everyday of your life for years. Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you? Does any of that seem rational?Welcome to retail.
I was commenting on people being willingly oblivious to signs two feet in any direction of their line of sight, rather than comparing the entirety of you post to retail as a whole. thus why I edited it down to that particular snippet :wink:You were, I was just taking it further, I needed a moment. No worries :)
I am, in my own mind, a strange bird, haha.No no, it's in our minds too :clairedoge:
Sorry, I'll be gneiss from now on.
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.
We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.
We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.
Probably. Some of it could've come from something as simple as knowing which mushrooms you could eat versus the ones that would kill you or leave you having hour-long conversations with the paintings on the cave walls. Some of it likely also came from being able to differentiate between members of one's own tribe and another. Not to say that those things are still necessary, mind you. And while I understand RF's irritation over talking about race, I'd posit that as long as the conversation persists, the other issues that surround it (not least of which is agreeing on the terminology through which the discussion takes place) will as well.
Edit: Ninja'd by DSL on the classification bit.
Free Arrakis? You said completely different....
(http://i.imgur.com/6awEnra.jpg)
That isn't the point, and I'm not holding it against you. The point is, there's literally nothing you could have said there that someone like me couldn't have found offensive. The only way to win is not to play. Except, if you refuse to play, everyone loses. So maybe, just maybe, it is incumbent upon me, as the oppressed party, to not give you a hard time for failing to beat the Kobayashi Maru.
Just sayin'
Why not just put up a sticky? That way, people can refer to that.
Noticing the stickies on the board: So (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24872.0.html) EASY (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html) a (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,4954.0.html) caveman (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,29097.0.html) could (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27839.0.html) do (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27466.0.html) it (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25614.0.html).
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
Ranging far afield from the comic
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
Ranging far afield from the comic
Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.
I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
Ranging far afield from the comic
Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.
I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.
Just like the syllabus in a college course.Why not just put up a sticky? That way, people can refer to that.
Noticing the stickies on the board: So (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24872.0.html) EASY (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html) a (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,4954.0.html) caveman (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,29097.0.html) could (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27839.0.html) do (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27466.0.html) it (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25614.0.html).
I run a rather large forum for work. Among the staff we have a joke about stickies: The fastest way to make sure noone reads something.
Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.
As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
Ranging far afield from the comic
Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.
I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I always saw Emily's oddity being unrelated to her being Asian, rather than being a function of her being Asian. In other words, she's an oddball who happens to be Asian, not somone who happens to be an oddball because she's Asian.
Besides, if she were "normal" compared to most of the rest of the cast, with all their neuroses and whatnot, that would make her more of an oddity than her oddity does (if that makes sense).
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I always saw Emily's oddity being unrelated to her being Asian, rather than being a function of her being Asian. In other words, she's an oddball who happens to be Asian, not somone who happens to be an oddball because she's Asian.
Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life. People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it. And then more come, and more still. All asking the same question or questions. So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question. Over and over and over. Everyday of your life for years. Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you? Does any of that seem rational?Welcome to retail.
Yes, I remember those fun days. "where is this item?" Slowly turn 90 degrees and look at the shelf immediately to my right or left. "right there?"
The worst example of that though wasn't technically retail. I lived in Ocean City, MD for many years. For those that don't know, it's a penninsula, averaging about 2-4 blocks wide at most point. The number of people who asked me 'where's the beach?' is staggering. You can literally see the ocean 80% of the time you are out doors....
We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.
ETA: Maybe I'm off base in saying this, but "lolrandom" isn't on my list of stereotypes for Asian American girls.
I think Jeph struggled with introducing three new characters at once when he brought the interns on board. Emily is a caricature with no personality traits besides "lol so random" and Gabby didn't even get to be a caricature before she was written out. I think Emily is mostly still in the strip because she's someone inoffensive and inconsequential for Claire to bounce off of — Tai and Claire have a more frictiony dynamic, and while I enjoy that sort of conflict, the author doesn't seem to.
ETA: Maybe I'm off base in saying this, but "lolrandom" isn't on my list of stereotypes for Asian American girls. Emily and Claire's character designs also reverse the expectation of tall trans girl / short Asian girl.
ETA: Maybe I'm off base in saying this, but "lolrandom" isn't on my list of stereotypes for Asian American girls.
Probably not, but Japanese people in general are stereotyped as being eccentric.
On the other hand, even Jeph admits that just because he didn't intend something be read a certain way, it doesn't mean that reading has no validity. There are definitely issues with Emily. They reduce to the fact that she be summed up as weird and Asian.
Speaking of the camps, I never could figure out why Issei and Nisei on the East Coast weren't treated the same as their West Coast counterparts. I'm guessing that there was a much lower concentration on the East Coast than there was on the West Coast, but I don't seem to find as much mention of the experiences of Japanese Americans from the Eastern Seaboard in the histories I've seen (Japanese were interned in Boston and on Ellis Island, but IIRC, they were from the West Coast as well). It seems like the government was more concerned with Germans and Italians back east.
Not one of our better moments as a country, to put it mildly.
Not one of our better moments as a country, to put it mildly.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Speaking of the camps, I never could figure out why Issei and Nisei on the East Coast weren't treated the same as their West Coast counterparts. I'm guessing that there was a much lower concentration on the East Coast than there was on the West Coast, but I don't seem to find as much mention of the experiences of Japanese Americans from the Eastern Seaboard in the histories I've seen (Japanese were interned in Boston and on Ellis Island, but IIRC, they were from the West Coast as well). It seems like the government was more concerned with Germans and Italians back east.
Not one of our better moments as a country, to put it mildly.
More value in the land to be stolen on the West coast than on the East has always been my guess.
"Allegiance," which I'd like to see.
The first time I heard anything about that was when I saw an exhibit at Ellis Island in 1998-99 or thereabouts... and wondered why I'd never heard of it in my high school or college history courses.
(the only state to actually GET attacked by Japan)Not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_Kiska) so! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign)
I stand corrected. Forgot about the Aleutians Campaign.(the only state to actually GET attacked by Japan)Not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_Kiska) so! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign)
Of course, neither Hawaii nor Alaska were states at the time, anyway...
There were a lot of justifications for the Japanese Internment. A lot of which get put in another light, when you consider that in Hawaii (the only state to actually GET attacked by Japan)*, only 1% of the Japanese-American population were imprisoned, compared to practically all of them in California.
Of course, in Hawaii, the Japanese-American population were a major part of the workforce. Interning all of them would pretty much have crippled the Hawaiian agricultural industry. And the Hawaiian internees were all community leaders and such.
It's interesting to note what happened to the entire Japanese-American culture in Hawaii as a result. It practically disappeared.
. . . all of this has little to nothing to do with the strip, so I'll end it here. Suffice to say that it's not exactly America's finest hour.
Which makes Oregon the only actual state to be attacked. (A submarine carried a small plane off the coast; the plane then dropped a fire bomb in the Oregon rainforest, which caused a very minor forest fire)
Of course, neither Hawaii nor Alaska were states at the time, anyway...
Quote from: Half Empty Coffee CupWhich makes Oregon the only actual state to be attacked. (A submarine carried a small plane off the coast; the plane then dropped a fire bomb in the Oregon rainforest, which caused a very minor forest fire)
Of course, neither Hawaii nor Alaska were states at the time, anyway...
I think, short of the capitulation of the US, the course of the war was more or less certain after Pearl Harbor, but the time frame was extremely flexible and could have swerved in either direction depending on events.
Off topic: I've just been over to the Subreddit. There is a long thread criticising Jeph for dissing them on Twitter and they're basically saying saying that he owes them. In fact, some are so angry that they're swearing off of QC because they can't tolerate the artist not liking their opinions. One or two are even trying to work out if a Subreddit-group boycott of QC would ruin Jeph and thus punish him for his disrespect. There was also the usual spiel about the strip having become boring.
Additionally, according to at least two posters, these forums are a moderator-heavy place dominated by sycophants where no seriously discussion of Claireten or the character of Claire is permitted. I actually consider that quite funny.
You know, considering what I know of American history, I'm stumped as to what our finest hour could possibly have been.
We only get one, by definition. All of the contenders seem to mired in tons of really horrible stuff.
Considering all of this, I suspect our finest hour probably occurred when the majority of us were asleep.
The atom bombs also heavily factor in. I believe it was directly after the second one that they surrendered.I think, short of the capitulation of the US, the course of the war was more or less certain after Pearl Harbor, but the time frame was extremely flexible and could have swerved in either direction depending on events.
I don't think that the Imperial Japanese ever had any intention to invade the continental US. From the start, Yammamoto's war plan seems to have been to destroy the Pacific Fleet as an effective fighting force. He hoped that, if Japan made it impossible for the United States to project military force there, it would give up its own territorial claims in the Western Pacific (at least in the short term) and sue for peace.
That plan died with two key strategic failures:Although the Japanese Navy held its own for a year or so after Midway, the failure to secure control of the Western Pacific meant that they had no choice but to continue to fight a two-front war against the US in the Pacific and British Commonwealth forces in East Asia and Oceania. This was unsustainable and it was only a matter of time before attrition and the US's industrial capacity wore down Japan's earlier strategic, technical and tactical advantages.
- The failure to destroy the Pacific Fleet's carriers and shore facilities in Hawaii;
- The defeat at Midway.
The influence of the bombs is heavily overrated; the Japanese high command was already discussing surrender, but wanted terms. Then the Soviet Army invaded and took one of the smaller islands, and they decided they'd rather surrender unconditionally (or almost; there were some provisions about the Emperor IIRC) to the U.S. than to the Soviets (which was a very good plan, based on what happened to the Eastern Bloc.)
The atom bombs also heavily factor in. I believe it was directly after the second one that they surrendered.
There will always be debate over how much the bombs factored into Japan's decision to surrender. I get the feeling, though, that their use was aimed as much at Russia as it was at Japan. That may sound like an odd assertion to makeNot at all; it makes perfect sense. Japan's war was pretty much over at that point, no matter what, but the Soviets were feeling very muscular, and had some festering grievances towards the U.S. regarding that whole Archangel thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_Intervention). But they were also technically on our side in that particular conflict, so it would be impolitic to threaten them outright, so we nuked Japan a couple times to show the Russkies that we could, and would, do it.
Any decision made in 1945 on how to deal with Japan was certain to be awful. In an alternate timeline the debate is probably over whether dropping an A bomb would have been a lesser evil than the Japanese famine in the winter of '45-'46.Or the million deaths incurred in the invasion.
Any decision made in 1945 on how to deal with Japan was certain to be awful. In an alternate timeline the debate is probably over whether dropping an A bomb would have been a lesser evil than the Japanese famine in the winter of '45-'46.
The second bomb, at least, was certainly unnecessary. My understanding is that it was dropped as an opportunity to test a difference in the technology.
it may, however, have been the least terrible.
Off topic: I've just been over to the Subreddit. There is a long thread criticising Jeph for dissing them on Twitter and they're basically saying saying that he owes them. In fact, some are so angry that they're swearing off of QC because they can't tolerate the artist not liking their opinions. One or two are even trying to work out if a Subreddit-group boycott of QC would ruin Jeph and thus punish him for his disrespect. There was also the usual spiel about the strip having become boring.I recently stumbled into that subreddit by accident (I don't usually read anything on reddit, but I found it when googling something QC related) and found a thread where people were saying what a toxic place the forum is (apparently citing something from that week; which I'm sure must have been deleted by mods afterwards) and how it was once nearly shut down (referring to the phase after the Marten-Dora break-up) and how it caused Jeph to stab himself in the hand that one time (I know that one is not true). And how Jeph allegedly hates the forums.
Additionally, according to at least two posters, these forums are a moderator-heavy place dominated by sycophants where no seriously discussion of Claireten or the character of Claire is permitted. I actually consider that quite funny.
I have refused to go on Reddit for a long time now. After hearing about all the crapola in the QC subreddit, I refuse to even consider going there.
Meanwhile, we're going to have an interesting week this next week. Jeph's gotta build up his buffer again.
You know, considering what I know of American history, I'm stumped as to what our finest hour could possibly have been.
The Atlantic Charter.
Followed by the Marshall Plan.
I don't know if I can agree with that one. If you're not sure on the intent I don't think it should be deleted just in case.
It's a stretch to say that's not a jurassic park reference with a raptor in the room. There should at least be benefit of the doubt there. If it were to get nuked, and you can make a argument for that, that last line shouldn't be the reason why.
I don't know if I can agree with that one. If you're not sure on the intent I don't think it should be deleted just in case.
It's a stretch to say that's not a jurassic park reference with a raptor in the room. There should at least be benefit of the doubt there. If it were to get nuked, and you can make a argument for that, that last line shouldn't be the reason why.
By that reasoning it is acceptable to make dick jokes about trans people. When the average is white and had 40'ish years of male privilege there isn't much more in the way of up to punch. And certainly many people do find it acceptable.
It's still a _dick_ move.
I'll "punch" about politics, I'll "punch" about acting like dicks, about special snowflakes using their feels to trample over other people because they refuse to see beyond their own wants. I'll "punch" about using the oppressed as a shield to advance nefarious agendas that would make Virginia Prince stand up and cheer. I'll "punch" when the proposed solutions to problems of the patriarchy somehow involve giving people with dicks more access to women's bodies and I'll consider every one of those "punches" deserved.
But to make someone's pain worse because you find it funny? How could that ever be cool?
But to make someone's pain worse because you find it funny? How could that ever be cool?
Walking, driving and...sitting in my house?
I honestly did not see any of the perceived insults in the image, or I would not have posted it.If it's any consolation... and speaking purely for myself... I got the Jurassic Park reference, and while there were unfortunate - no, too strong, "ambiguous" - better - overtones in the whole concept, they didn't rise to the level of "hurt". Or anywhere near it. For me anyway.
My apologies.
I never intend to post anything that will hurt people.