Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Gladstone on 22 Feb 2015, 14:26

Title: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 22 Feb 2015, 14:26
An Apology: This is NOT the WCDT for the week of February 23rd. You can find that here (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30500.0.html). It was going to be, but I got a bit carried away and turned some brief speculation about Marten and Claire into the mega-post you see below, so I decided to spin it off into its own discussion and let someone else do the Weekly instead. I kept the poll for funsies, though, so it'll stay up and open until it gets boring, and feel free to change your answer as the story progresses. And, of course, discuss! Add your own thoughts/tell me how wrong I am/whatever.

So, let's talk about Marten and Claire. They've been together for what now, a week? (In-comic, that is; for us it's been about five months)  Gosh! In my first post (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30209.msg1274755.html#msg1274755) on these forums, I mentioned two possibilities for them as a couple: they could either hang out for a bit and go on a few dates before deciding to just stay friends (doubtful), which still meant that with Jeph's storytelling pace we were in for several months of squee material, or they could embark on a serious relationship that played out over several years worth of strips, if not longer. No middle ground! Twoo Wuv Fuwwevva or bust! And we appear to be taking the second route, but at a faster pace than I expected: I assumed we'd be in for several dates with innocent hand-holding and such before they progressed to cuddling and chaste sleepovers before any sexytimes happened, but Claire had other ideas (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2838), and both of them have now admitted to each other that they want to let this relationship work. So we're in it for the long haul! Years of strips to look forward to! I'm not necessarily talking wedding bells, mind you (although Tai and Veronica have probably started scheming together), but Claire and Marten certainly have the potential to be a long-term couple. Knock on wood, of course: something could happen to break them up sooner than expected, which is what I wanted to explore in this post. The last hundred strips were full of squee- and d'awww-worthy moments, but now that they seem to be settling down (well, maybe), there is plenty of room in the relationship for some conflict to emerge. With that in mind, there are several questions we need to answer:

(Note: I decided to put each part of this post under spoilers due to length)

1. Who is Marten?
(click to show/hide)

2. What does Marten want?
(click to show/hide)

3. Who is Claire?
(click to show/hide)

4. What does Claire want?
(click to show/hide)

So, what next?
There is a lot to consider about Marten and Claire, separately and as a couple, and a lot of potential for the both of them to grow as characters. So with that in mind, here's a short summary of what I would like to see happen next:
(click to show/hide)

Aaaand those are my thoughts on what the future has in store for the S. S. Claireten. tl;dr: Anything can happen. What are your thoughts? Let's discuss!

[Edited to fix minor typos and factual errors, change the thread title, and to expand on some thoughts.]
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 22 Feb 2015, 14:59
Certain aspects of Jeph's life were reflected in the earlier strips, by his own admission; as he's aged/grown up, he's mentioned that those things have diverged. This is by no means the most random thought I've had, but it's up there: If Marten's young Jeph, what are the odds that some aspects of Claire are old(er) Jeph (at least in terms of having a bit more ambition and focus)?

And if he can get up off his ass, Marten making a living with his music isn't that far off base; speaking of his creator, I kinda doubt if Jeph knew when he started this thing more than a decade ago that it'd become what it is now; the important thing is, at some point, he did start, and took the leap of faith into doing it full-time. He can, in other words, write Marten's growth from a position of experience that a lot of people don't have. Whether he's comfortable doing that is something else altogether, but it could take the story in some interesting directions.

The Marten-Claire dynamic as a couple... all I'm going to say about that is if you've ever been someone's first real relationship when you've got some experience under your belt, that does have its challenges. There's a huge vein of material there, not all of which would have to end in heartbreak (even though there're bound to be some rocky moments in between).

I've mentioned elsewhere that I think the long series of strips focusing on the two of them was so that he could firmly establish them as a couple and then move on to other things. They, and their relationship, would still be in the strip, obviously, but in some ways it'd be a lot like Steve and Cosette's relationship; it's backgrounded to some degree, so we just assume everything's humming along alright unless/until we're told otherwise. That lets Jeph move on to other things without a metric shit ton of speculation about what Claireten's status is.

And, as you mention, there's still plenty to be explored with both of them as individuals rather than as a couple. I'd really like to see some of those things delved into, since one of the biggest signs of a healthy relationship (IMHO) is that the people involved have lives that don't just revolve around what they are with/to each other.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: BenRG on 22 Feb 2015, 15:12
I voted for Jim and Veronica's wedding bells, mostly because this does seem to be where Veronica's arc has been going from the time of Henry and Maurice's wedding. Remember the cry of "Oh God! I'm so lonely!" What Veronica is looking for now in her life is stability and somewhere she can have real, meaningful roots. Not the professional links that she has and seems to be the closest thing to a 'family' she has but personal roots of a kith and kin type.

This will relate to Marten in one important way. I think that Marten, too, is seeing too many empty spaces in his life. That's more than anything else why he's been looking at Claire differently. She is, bizarrely enough, probably the most normal girl he knows. That's what he desires - normal, settled and predictable. He's had enough of drama and he's had enough of exotic. I think that he's taken to heart what Tai said about not rejecting good enough just because it isn't his heart's desire come true. He's decided that he should value the existing good things in his life and treasure them; go with what he has rather than wait forever for a perfection that may never come.

What's their future? If the relationship lasts, I can see it being very, very long-term. Wedding bells and everything. Although I get the impression that Jeph isn't a great fan of little kids, I can see Marten and Claire settling down and, after Claire graduates, starting a family. Maybe they'll adopt or, maybe, depending on how advanced medical technology is in the QC-verse, Claire may have had a uteroplasty as part of her gender reassignment treatment. Or, hell, one of Marten's friends may volunteer to carry a child for them. No matter the mechanics (and it would be in Jeph's nature simply to 'take it as read' when it comes to the mechanics), I can see, in the distant future, a mellow, red-head girl and a punning, prickly black-haired boy helping the cast earn their grey hairs.

But there is a big 'in between' standing there. An 'in between' that could be filled with anything. Dora and Tai asking Marten to father their child? Emily joining Deathmole as keyboardist (leading to Amir finally getting to tell Natalie to take a running jump)? Clinton turning out to be a grade-A ass and making Emily cry on their 'not-a-date'? Claire deciding to walk on the wild side with Marten for a while, leading to a brief phase of sex, intoxicants and rock-and-roll during a short period when the Indy Hipsters are treating Deathmole as flavour-of-the-month? None of these are inconceivable. We'll just have to wait and see!
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 22 Feb 2015, 15:34
I suspect that next for Marten and Claire is a whole lot of nothing.

I want to elucidate, but my thoughts run in directions that will certainly derail the thread. I do not wish to do that.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Gladstone on 22 Feb 2015, 17:17
Certain aspects of Jeph's life were reflected in the earlier strips, by his own admission; as he's aged/grown up, he's mentioned that those things have diverged. This is by no means the most random thought I've had, but it's up there: If Marten's young Jeph, what are the odds that some aspects of Claire are old(er) Jeph (at least in terms of having a bit more ambition and focus)?

[Snip]

Huh, I hadn't considered that.  Good thought!

Quote from: Aziraphale
I've mentioned elsewhere that I think the long series of strips focusing on the two of them was so that he could firmly establish them as a couple and then move on to other things. They, and their relationship, would still be in the strip, obviously, but in some ways it'd be a lot like Steve and Cosette's relationship; it's backgrounded to some degree, so we just assume everything's humming along alright unless/until we're told otherwise. That lets Jeph move on to other things without a metric shit ton of speculation about what Claireten's status is.

Yeah, that was my conclusion near the end of this arc as well.  Near the beginning, though, I assumed they would go a lot slower, but I wasn't considering the questions other readers were raising regarding them as a couple.  It makes sense now that Jeph felt he needed to drive the point home several times with a very large mallet before moving on, and I hope you're right that we do move on and let more of their relationship happen off-panel.

What's their future? If the relationship lasts, I can see it being very, very long-term. Wedding bells and everything. Although I get the impression that Jeph isn't a great fan of little kids, I can see Marten and Claire settling down and, after Claire graduates, starting a family.

[...]

But there is a big 'in between' standing there. An 'in between' that could be filled with anything. Dora and Tai asking Marten to father their child? Emily joining Deathmole as keyboardist (leading to Amir finally getting to tell Natalie to take a running jump)?

Jeph said no babies!  And Natasha has been gone for a while now (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1178).

I suspect that next for Marten and Claire is a whole lot of nothing.

I want to elucidate, but my thoughts run in directions that will certainly derail the thread. I do not wish to do that.

Well, I did write this piece under the assumption that Marten and Claire are Going Places, but I won't stop anyone who assumes otherwise.  Elucidate away, if you like.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 22 Feb 2015, 17:20
A small correction - There's already 3 employees at the library, as Momo is also employed there and not an intern.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Gladstone on 22 Feb 2015, 17:25
Oops, forgot about her.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Fixed! 
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Khazgar on 22 Feb 2015, 23:32
I agree with pretty much everything in this thread, particularly the idea that Jeph has changed his writing style as he matures. The comic has really come a long way.

I've often wondered about the development of the characters and how (or if!) Jeph is going to develop them in the future. I personally, like, I suspect, so many others, began to get my life together during my twenties and started making real relationship, job and future decisions rather than just drifting along like many of the QC cast seem to have been doing.

I would really hope that we will see some real character development in the next batch of strips - Dora and Faye (and arguably, Marten too) are at a point where they have to make some difficult decisions at some point in the near to middle future. Going to be very interesting to see how it pans out.

And if I may have a personal wish - Marten/Claire wedding arc at some point please don't break them up Jeph!
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Rghfrgl on 23 Feb 2015, 01:01
While we need to be shown a bit more substance, I think fundamentally they're a solid couple that's good for each other. They've got traits that can either cause some friction or maybe rub off on each other in a positive way. Or both.

Y'know, as long as the right traits rub off. We could end up with a stuck up judgmental Marten and a lazy Claire who doesn't know what to do with herself  :-P
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Vemocleus on 23 Feb 2015, 01:07
Happily.  Ever.  After.  And until then, I'll just be standing over here with my fingers in my ears, humming a little tune.  lalalala
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: BenRG on 23 Feb 2015, 01:22
What's their future? If the relationship lasts, I can see it being very, very long-term. Wedding bells and everything. Although I get the impression that Jeph isn't a great fan of little kids, I can see Marten and Claire settling down and, after Claire graduates, starting a family.

[...]

But there is a big 'in between' standing there. An 'in between' that could be filled with anything. Dora and Tai asking Marten to father their child? Emily joining Deathmole as keyboardist (leading to Amir finally getting to tell Natalie to take a running jump)?

Jeph said no babies!  And Natasha has been gone for a while now (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1178).

Well, as I understood it, Jeph said no drama about babies and I agree with that. For example, no 'oh my god, it broke and I may be pregnant' soap-style story-lines.

However, I can see several story-lines he could pursue that would have children at the end of it. FWIW, though, I don't really expect it to happen until very close to where Jeph thinks that the strip is approaching its end and that the time has come to close off the remaining loose ends. You wouldn't actually see the Claireten and Taira spawn until the epilogue strips. Exact origin would, true to Jeph's attitude towards such things, be nebulous.

Regarding Natasha, this is just headcanon for me but I imagine that she's still in contact with Amir, continually going on about how Deathmole is nothing without her unique artistic stylings. It is even possible that Amir has some arrangements that require a keyboardist that were originally intended for her but (of course) Natasha couldn't play because she just wanted to make 'loud noises'. Enter Emily, who I would love to have this maverick near-auteur musical talent that is so automatic for her that she doesn't really think about it. ("I can play Pokémon game tunes with my eyes closed!")

Amir makes a point of dragging Natasha over to a rehearsal to finally hammer it home into the harridan's solid titanium-like skull that she isn't needed anymore.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: ASB84 on 23 Feb 2015, 01:41
With a lot of other plot arcs left to resolve, it wouldn't hurt to put them on the backburner for a bit. That's not to say they shouldn't be featured or anything, but focus on their interactions with other characters and spend some time with those other arcs.

As for their future, I think the comic should treat them as it has most other couples that have gotten any significant amount of "screen time" thus far: show that they're in a relationship, have them hanging out and doing stuff together, talking about whatever, the same as any other couple. I think the important thing for any of their arcs moving forward is that there's more to the story than "Look how cute they are together!"; have any cute moments be a part of the proceedings, not the point of the proceedings.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Kugai on 23 Feb 2015, 13:32
Questionable Content: The Next Generation
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Kugai on 23 Feb 2015, 13:46
At least he won't be the JJ Abrams of the group.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: osaka on 23 Feb 2015, 14:34
Ahem (http://www.questionablecontent.net/2110)

P.S.: I know we're talking about the future here, but it was necessary.
Title: Re: Marten and Claire: The Future
Post by: Gladstone on 23 Feb 2015, 16:28
Ahem (http://www.questionablecontent.net/2110)

P.S.: I know we're talking about the future here, but it was necessary.

Hey, nothing wrong with the occasional lens flare if it looks awesome.  It only becomes a problem when you have light reflecting off of every available surface and making it impossible to see anything going on.  Hannelore's dad was smart enough to avoid that when he had the Station built.

In related news, I edited the above essay to expand on my conclusion a bit (the original seemed too abrupt), but I didn't really add anything new that we haven't discussed already.  My only real achievement was breaking the 20,000-character limit, which I did not know was a thing.

Also changed the thread title to something more exciting, and probably jinxed the relationship.  You can blame me if they break up later this week.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: jwhouk on 23 Feb 2015, 17:21
Yes, I was the only one who voted for "HAHAHAHAHA I can't keep a straight face."
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: mustang6172 on 23 Feb 2015, 20:17
Claire has to die.

Marten and Faye are the Daphne and Niles of this comic.  We've known since strip 4 that Faye is supposed to be the love interest.  We just can't get to that point until Jeph runs out of ideas.  Before we can get there, this relationship has to end.

Marten would never initiate the breakup.  Initiating a breakup makes a protagonist unlikeable.

Claire would never initiate the breakup.  She doesn't think anyone else could measure up to Marten and still be into her.

Thanks to Game of Thrones, we now live in a world where main characters can die anytime without foreshadowing.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Carl-E on 23 Feb 2015, 20:21
You're horrible. 

 :-D :roll:
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 23 Feb 2015, 20:22
Claire has to die.

Marten and Faye are the Daphne and Niles of this comic.  We've known since strip 4 that Faye is supposed to be the love interest.  We just can't get to that point until Jeph runs out of ideas.  Before we can get there, this relationship has to end.

Nope.

Nope nope nope nope nope.

NOPE.

Preeeeetty sure Jeph (and Veronica)(and EVERYONE ELSE) disagrees with you (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1838). 
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 23 Feb 2015, 20:30
Just adding my NOPE to the NOPE pile here.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 23 Feb 2015, 20:31
(http://mathewreuther.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/the-oatmeal-running-agony-nope.jpg?82006e)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Hybris on 23 Feb 2015, 20:33
Claire has to die.

Marten and Faye are the Daphne and Niles of this comic.  We've known since strip 4 that Faye is supposed to be the love interest.  We just can't get to that point until Jeph runs out of ideas.  Before we can get there, this relationship has to end.

Marten would never initiate the breakup.  Initiating a breakup makes a protagonist unlikeable.

Claire would never initiate the breakup.  She doesn't think anyone else could measure up to Marten and still be into her.

Thanks to Game of Thrones, we now live in a world where main characters can die anytime without foreshadowing.

Idea:
Que Faye and Claire talking outside CoD, car comes in crashes into them or nearby, Marten rushes out and see both girls out cold but the car is on fire!, He hesitates for a moment before grabbing Faye and dragging her to safety, then just as he turns around to get Claire car explodes killing Claire, Marten spends a few days in the hospital with shrapnel wounds fighting himself as he tries to explain to himself why he picked Faye over Claire. (Pardon the short hand.)

^That is the nicest way to permanently kill off Claire.

Now as much as I dislike Claire I will be generous and say that maybe in the coming months things just quietly peter out and neither Marten or Claire can explain why they just fell apart, or Claire after gaining relationship experience wants to simply see other people, maybe even try to initiate a relationship under her own power essentially outgrowing Marten. Marten of course being Marten while being bummed supports Claire in her choice. Maybe combine this with Clair moving to say San Fran or other great distance or have her hook up with a random girl from the college.

Beyond this I feel fairly safe in Claire\Marten not being permanent again because so much of Marten thus far is increasingly out of character for him and he is going to eventually hit a critical failure point (kinda like Faye right now) in which EVERYTHING falls including Claire. The question is how long do we have to wait for that moment and could we get a extra long strip out of it?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 23 Feb 2015, 20:35
(http://www.shoutwiki.com/w/images/badwebcomicswiki/thumb/f/f7/Ugky_faye.png/300px-Ugky_faye.png)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: ASB84 on 23 Feb 2015, 20:36
I thought the true ending had already been revealed (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1620)? I mean, we're all prepared to laugh it off and dismiss it because it's Yelling Bird, but what better way to keep the final twist unexpected to the end?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 23 Feb 2015, 20:41
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/questionablecontent/images/5/59/ClaireDoNotLikeTheSound.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120619011406)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: valkygrrl on 23 Feb 2015, 20:45
Claire has to die.


We've all gotten together and I was asked to extend you an invitation. There's a wedding being thrown at The Twins and well, after your thoughts on Claire's future we'd just love for you to attend.

The forum sends its regards.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 23 Feb 2015, 20:52
I hear there will be live music. It'll make you feel right as rain.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Hybris on 23 Feb 2015, 20:56
Though it can take many torpedoes one submarine can sink a ship.

Mustang if you aren't too busy I invite you join me in my armored Sub bunker the food isn't as good as the wedding but there will be far less of your blood flying around.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Rghfrgl on 23 Feb 2015, 21:08
I don't know whether to be mad at the idea of killing off Claire or mad at the idea of Marten and Faye actually being endgame.

And that makes me angry.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: mustang6172 on 23 Feb 2015, 21:08
Hybris, I may have to take you up on that offer.

Claire has to die.

Marten and Faye are the Daphne and Niles of this comic.  We've known since strip 4 that Faye is supposed to be the love interest.  We just can't get to that point until Jeph runs out of ideas.  Before we can get there, this relationship has to end.

Nope.

Nope nope nope nope nope.

NOPE.

Preeeeetty sure Jeph (and Veronica)(and EVERYONE ELSE) disagrees with you (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1838).

Great humor can be found in ironic false predictions.

Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 23 Feb 2015, 21:13
Jeph put a lot of thought and care into introducing Claire, and he is not going to set her up with the main character only to kill her off for cheap drama.  Full stop.

So many nopes.

(That should have been my first response.  I'm sorry that it wasn't.)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Meilu on 23 Feb 2015, 21:33
I love Claire. I don't see her and Marten stating together mainly because this is her first relationship. Ultimately those rarely ever last. It's a good fot for Marten, but in my view because of her lack of experience it isn't a good fit for her.

I forsee a break-up (eventually) followed by a reconciliation (way in the future). Then maybe wedding bells and what have you...

I apologize for brevity and grammar, stuck on a phone due to burglary.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: DSL on 23 Feb 2015, 21:54
Sympathies re: the burglary.
Never apologize for brevity.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Carl-E on 23 Feb 2015, 22:28
It's the soul of wit. 





Or was that twit? 
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 23 Feb 2015, 23:03
I love Claire. I don't see her and Marten stating together mainly because this is her first relationship. Ultimately those rarely ever last. It's a good fot for Marten, but in my view because of her lack of experience it isn't a good fit for her.

Yeah, I'm willing to consider that the relationship might not work out for reasons like this, because it's entirely possible that the magic might fade/one of them will outgrow the other/whatever, even though I really don't see it happening...unless Jeph surprises us years down the road, and ends the strip with the two of them amicably going their separate ways (OH GOD NOW I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING WHY DID YOU DO THAT TO MEEEE?).  But I will not entertain the "lol Claire DIES so Marten can kiss FAYE!" idea.  It's awful and absurd for so many reasons.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Rghfrgl on 24 Feb 2015, 00:50
How I Met Your Mother all over again!
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Storel on 24 Feb 2015, 02:31
I can't believe you called this thread "God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship". You DO remember what happened when someone said exactly that about the Titanic, don't you?? God said "Oh, yes I can!" and found himself just the right iceberg to do it. On the ship's very first voyage, no less. God don't waste no time when he's pissed off.

Why would you tempt fate like that? You're just daring QC's god, Jeph, to find some way to sink this ship!

Ohhhhhh, I see. That's what you WANT!! All this blather about how Marten and Claire are so perfect together is just to hide your real feelings. You want the SS Claireten to sink without a trace, so you're doing everything you can to sabotage it! Well, now we're on to you, and we'll do everything we can to foil your dastardly plot! Who's with me?? Charge the barricades!!!
 
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 24 Feb 2015, 02:52
I can't believe you called this thread "God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship". You DO remember what happened when someone said exactly that about the Titanic, don't you?? God said "Oh, yes I can!" and found himself just the right iceberg to do it. On the ship's very first voyage, no less. God don't waste no time when he's pissed off.

Somewhat off-topic but this is sort of an urban legend. Actually, no-one on the Titanic or involved in her construction or operation said those infamous words. They were drawn from an Op-Ed in a British newspaper at the time of her launch, lauding the innovations like water-tight subdivisions that, theoretically at least, made it a lot harder for the ship to sink due to a hull breach.

I suppose the point is that 'god' (Jeph, in this case) doesn't want to break them apart; for some reason he has a big personal emotional stake in them.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Zebediah on 24 Feb 2015, 04:19
I don't know whether to be mad at the idea of killing off Claire or mad at the idea of Marten and Faye actually being endgame.

And that makes me angry.

Why choose? You can be mad about both!  :x
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 24 Feb 2015, 04:23
Crazy Shipper Idea:
Some time in the immediate future, Claire and Martin go through a 'wild and crazy' phase where they try to 'spice up' their lives (even Tai is a bit worried). Amongst the consequences is a series of poly dates (Marten x Claire x ???). In essence almost every possible Marten x ??? ship is in some way referenced.

At the end of this, Jeph publishes a single-panel strip of Yelling Bird wearing a Trollface mask and no-one in the strip ever refers to the sequence ever again.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 24 Feb 2015, 14:45
Looks like we're going to need a bigger NOPE.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Mr_Rose on 24 Feb 2015, 15:04
DEPLOY THE ORBITAL NOPE CANNON!
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Schmee on 24 Feb 2015, 16:18
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m44v95k9Y11qjhgo6o1_250.gif)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Zebediah on 24 Feb 2015, 18:19
Nope 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: MrNumbers on 25 Feb 2015, 20:55
Non Option Pretty Explicitly.

N.O.P.E'd.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 27 Feb 2015, 06:16
I think they'll both come to their senses in a couple of weeks and give it up as a bad job.

I like the car crash/martens choice thing though, and I think a throwing the cat in with the pigeons exercise would be good for the comic generally.

kill your darlings.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 27 Feb 2015, 08:08
How about tossing a serial killer in there? Then it goes from slice-of-life to horror! We have the 20-somethings, now all we need is a lake hou- oh wait  :psyduck:
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: cesium133 on 27 Feb 2015, 08:10
And Emily already has a ski mask and a hatchet. I think I see the writing on the wall. It says "All work and no play makes Jack... something something."
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 27 Feb 2015, 08:35
it's Jacques. "all work and no play makes Jacques something something something."

would that be a meta comment if used in the comic? I can't tell these days.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 27 Feb 2015, 15:48
Y'know, regarding the "Claire must die!" faction: When Jeph said he wanted to make Claire more than just "the trans character," I'm PRETTY SURE he didn't mean that he was actually planning to pair her up romantically with Marten, the main character in his story, just so he could kill her off in a dramatic way as an excuse to get him together with a "Real Woman" like Faye. 

Because I'm pretty sure that that is precisely the kind of story Jeph doesn't want to tell.

And I realize I'm only the thread creator and I don't have much power here, but I'd still like to say it:

CAN.  YOU.  STOP THAT.

Thanks.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: DSL on 27 Feb 2015, 15:58
Maybe, in screwing around with Espressosaurus1.0, Raven inadvertently invented the QC version of the Starfleet People Fax, and through some shenanigans involving tachyons and coffee spiders and whatnot, a duplicate Claire was created, certain that she is the original. The shade of James Blish could be summoned to write a novel about it (Today is the day to bring it up ...) What could the title be ...?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 27 Feb 2015, 18:17
Preeeeetty sure that the people (jokingly) suggesting the Claire death plot weren't even thinking about any kind of implications of a 'real woman' or otherwise when it was suggested, and moreso poking fun at the 'OTP' ideas in regards to Marten and Faye.

Sometimes a spade's just a spade, and things get read far more into that was intended, or even imagined.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 27 Feb 2015, 18:30
Preeeeetty sure that that's how it would be interpeted, though, if it did happen.

But maybe I've been taking these suggestions a little too seriously.  Still, nope.  Farten ain't happenin'.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Endellion on 27 Feb 2015, 18:49
Preeeeetty sure that that's how it would be interpeted, though, if it did happen.

But maybe I've been taking these suggestions a little too seriously.  Still, nope.  Farten ain't happenin'.

But-but-but, this is foreshadowed right here on the bottle! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2866) It's meant to be!

(J/k'ing if it wasn't completely obvious)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 27 Feb 2015, 18:53
Preeeeetty sure that that's how it would be interpeted, though, if it did happen.

But maybe I've been taking these suggestions a little too seriously.  Still, nope.  Farten ain't happenin'.

Knowing that there's there's a lot of people who seem to seek out those kinds of interpretations, it wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't mean they'd be right, though  :wink:

In all seriousness, when an artist/writer has to constantly second-guess themselves on if something can possibly be interpreted in a way that in no way resembles what they intended it as, I'd personally not blame the whole lot of them if they gave up their artistic implements of choice. Some people look for ways to be offended by things when no offense or hidden meaning was intended or there in the first place.

None of this is directed at anyone in particular, but as a general commentary on something that seems to come up more and more frequently. It has to be tiring, to constantly be searching for the worst possible way something can be read into and always assuming the worst of people. :psyduck:

Got off-topic a bit there. I'll go back to my corner now.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 27 Feb 2015, 18:59
But-but-but, this is foreshadowed right here on the bottle! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2866) It's meant to be!

(J/k'ing if it wasn't completely obvious)

Ah, but that's Fartin.  Meaning, Faye is going to meet someone named Martin (Martin Reid, that is), and spend the rest of the comic enduring jokes about the similarities.  Marten Reed will, of course, be oblivious.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 27 Feb 2015, 19:16

None of this is directed at anyone in particular, but as a general commentary on something that seems to come up more and more frequently. It has to be tiring, to constantly be searching for the worst possible way something can be read into and always assuming the worst of people. :psyduck:


There's been quite a bit of that lately.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 27 Feb 2015, 19:23
In all seriousness, when an artist/writer has to constantly second-guess themselves on if something can possibly be interpreted in a way that in no way resembles what they intended it as, I'd personally not blame the whole lot of them if they gave up their artistic implements of choice. Some people look for ways to be offended by things when no offense or hidden meaning was intended or there in the first place.

None of this is directed at anyone in particular, but as a general commentary on something that seems to come up more and more frequently. It has to be tiring, to constantly be searching for the worst possible way something can be read into and always assuming the worst of people.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.  But my point was that killing off the only trans character, in a comic in which no member of the cast has ever been killed off (and the only actual death depicted was in flashbacks), would be received rather poorly, and for good reason, because LGBT characters have a habit of being killed off for dramatic purposes in other media.  Claire adding to the count would forever cement her as "the trans character who died so that Marten and Faye could get together," which is probably not something Jeph wants to be known for, unless he wants 4chan to like him.

But yeah, I think I've said enough on this topic, so I'm going to go away for a bit to calm down.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Endellion on 27 Feb 2015, 19:35
But-but-but, this is foreshadowed right here on the bottle! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2866) It's meant to be!

(J/k'ing if it wasn't completely obvious)

Ah, but that's Fartin.  Meaning, Faye is going to meet someone named Martin (Martin Reid, that is), and spend the rest of the comic enduring jokes about the similarities.  Marten Reed will, of course, be oblivious.

Nonono, Martin Reed is Marten Reed's clone made from this blood sample (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1607) and genetically aged by Ellicott-Chatham technology. In about 50 strips time he'll replace Marten in a diabolical scheme involving an aardvark and dumped in the Stony River Quarry (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1476) (used earlier to dump Angus' body when he was going back to patch things up with Faye).
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 27 Feb 2015, 19:38
In all seriousness, when an artist/writer has to constantly second-guess themselves on if something can possibly be interpreted in a way that in no way resembles what they intended it as, I'd personally not blame the whole lot of them if they gave up their artistic implements of choice. Some people look for ways to be offended by things when no offense or hidden meaning was intended or there in the first place.

None of this is directed at anyone in particular, but as a general commentary on something that seems to come up more and more frequently. It has to be tiring, to constantly be searching for the worst possible way something can be read into and always assuming the worst of people.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.  But my point was that killing off the only trans character, in a comic in which no member of the cast has ever been killed off (and the only actual death depicted was in flashbacks), would be received rather poorly, and for good reason, because LGBT characters have a habit of being killed off for dramatic purposes in other media.  Claire adding to the count would forever cement her as "the trans character who died so that Marten and Faye could get together," which is probably not something Jeph wants to be known for, unless he wants 4chan to like him.

But yeah, I think I've said enough on this topic, so I'm going to go away for a bit to calm down.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from too. I myself am not a fan of over-the-top dramatic deaths in things in an otherwise-mostly-lighthearted comic.

But I guess my concern is, will the status (sex, gender, ethnicity, disability,etc. and so on) of a fictional character ever be inconsequential and not even be thought of in regards to plot devices (outside of where it has significant relevance to the plot itself, of course), or will we never reach a point where a person who is different than the majority, in one way or another, isn't treated by the creators and their mediums as a precious vase on a pedestal, that can never be removed (be it death, written out, or otherwise) without fear of being accused of some rather unsavory and unfair judgments about their motivations in doing so?

Obviously it's a very sensitive subject, and rightly so - a lot of these things are only just beginning to become accepted in the mainstream, there's a lot of hurt associated with it, and there's a long way to go. But I also feel that -over-sensitivity can do a fair deal of damage in how situations are perceived by the masses as a whole, and in the long run will make such things harder for said masses to embrace.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 27 Feb 2015, 19:40
But-but-but, this is foreshadowed right here on the bottle! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2866) It's meant to be!

(J/k'ing if it wasn't completely obvious)

Ah, but that's Fartin.  Meaning, Faye is going to meet someone named Martin (Martin Reid, that is), and spend the rest of the comic enduring jokes about the similarities.  Marten Reed will, of course, be oblivious.

Nonono, Martin Reed is Marten Reed's clone made from this blood sample (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1607) and genetically aged by Ellicott-Chatham technology. In about 50 strips time he'll replace Marten in a diabolical scheme involving an aardvark and dumped in the Stony River Quarry (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1476) (used earlier to dump Angus' body when he was going back to patch things up with Faye).

Speaking of Chekov's Gun, the blood sample's a huge one if it wasn't a throwaway gag. I'm guessing it was, but it does leave the door open for some interesting possibilities.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Endellion on 27 Feb 2015, 19:50
But-but-but, this is foreshadowed right here on the bottle! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2866) It's meant to be!

(J/k'ing if it wasn't completely obvious)

Ah, but that's Fartin.  Meaning, Faye is going to meet someone named Martin (Martin Reid, that is), and spend the rest of the comic enduring jokes about the similarities.  Marten Reed will, of course, be oblivious.

Nonono, Martin Reed is Marten Reed's clone made from this blood sample (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1607) and genetically aged by Ellicott-Chatham technology. In about 50 strips time he'll replace Marten in a diabolical scheme involving an aardvark and dumped in the Stony River Quarry (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1476) (used earlier to dump Angus' body when he was going back to patch things up with Faye).

Speaking of Chekov's Gun, the blood sample's a huge one if it wasn't a throwaway gag. I'm guessing it was, but it does leave the door open for some interesting possibilities.

If Jeph brings it up again it will probably be for reasons that Hanners outlines here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1609).
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Masterpiece on 27 Feb 2015, 22:21
Not relevant at all to this thread, but I feel weird seeing Endellions posts and thinking "wait when did I write this?"

This message is coming from Tapatalk inside my phone!
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Endellion on 27 Feb 2015, 23:31
Not relevant at all to this thread, but I feel weird seeing Endellions posts and thinking "wait when did I write this?"

This message is coming from Tapatalk inside my phone!

Well this is awkward, it's like turning up at an event in exactly the same outfit as someone else :oops:

Time to find another claireface for m'self
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: bhtooefr on 28 Feb 2015, 02:36
Kill off Marten, then have Claire and Faye get together.

It's just as plausible as the other way around. (That is, not at all.)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: explicit on 28 Feb 2015, 03:08
Look, fellas, I'm pretty sure I'm drunk as all can be, it's 6am where I am, and all I gotta say is.... .... .... .... ....

DAFUQ

nah one's gonna die. Too easy writing plot.

Though to be fair, I may be too drunk to read other people's posts correctly. This post took my 10 minutes to write. I hope I did this right..
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 28 Feb 2015, 04:09
I think they will just come to a slow halt in the relationship. once the novelty of new experiences for both of them wears off.
I wouldn't really like it if the character Claire were to die.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Carl-E on 28 Feb 2015, 11:01
She won't die. 


No redhead would ever wear a red shirt...
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: jwhouk on 28 Feb 2015, 19:21
Maybe, in screwing around with Espressosaurus1.0, Raven inadvertently invented the QC version of the Starfleet People Fax, and through some shenanigans involving tachyons and coffee spiders and whatnot, a duplicate Claire was created, certain that she is the original. The shade of James Blish could be summoned to write a novel about it (Today is the day to bring it up ...) What could the title be ...?

"Spock Is Dead"?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Storel on 28 Feb 2015, 20:57
Maybe, in screwing around with Espressosaurus1.0, Raven inadvertently invented the QC version of the Starfleet People Fax, and through some shenanigans involving tachyons and coffee spiders and whatnot, a duplicate Claire was created, certain that she is the original. The shade of James Blish could be summoned to write a novel about it (Today is the day to bring it up ...) What could the title be ...?

"Spock Is Dead"?

Wow, I haven't seen a "Spock Must Die!" reference in several eons. :-o Thank you, DSL; I always knew you had good taste. (That novel contained the one explanation of Star Trek's transporter that actually made scientific sense. Unfortunately, ST:TNG ignored that explanation and canonized total baloney instead. :x )

Jwhouk, nice subverting of the title that DSL was obviously fishing for.  8-) Just so DSL doesn't feel too disappointed, I'll supply it: "Claire Must Die!"
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 28 Feb 2015, 21:26
Jwhouk, nice subverting of the title that DSL was obviously fishing for.  8-) Just so DSL doesn't feel too disappointed, I'll supply it: "Claire Must Die!"

The following information is a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT from Claire's little brother:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8681/16679067635_9d8e070b35.jpg)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: KOK on 01 Mar 2015, 08:41
She won't die. 

No redhead would ever wear a red shirt...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Rghfrgl on 01 Mar 2015, 09:30
She wears pink. And pink is just faded red!
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 01 Mar 2015, 09:37
She won't die. 

No redhead would ever wear a red shirt...
(click to show/hide)
I totally read the 'red shirt' comment as an old-school Star Trek reference  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: bhtooefr on 01 Mar 2015, 09:52
That was the joke.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Omega Entity on 01 Mar 2015, 10:18
Oh good. I'm a bit dense sometimes.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 01 Mar 2015, 11:33
That stuff aside, nice picture.  :-D
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Endellion on 01 Mar 2015, 12:36
She wears pink. And pink is just faded red!

(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/236/7/9/Donut_by_Crosknight.jpg)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: DSL on 01 Mar 2015, 17:12
It's either gold-and-white, or black-and-blue.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Mar 2015, 23:44
There's a bit of a kerfuffle over in the timeline thread (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30197.msg1307728.html#msg1307728) due to the revelation in today's comic (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2907) that the date is Tuesday, several days later than previously thought.  Part of the debate has to do with how the academic schedule matches up with Marten and Claire's work schedule, which led me to wonder something regarding the What Does Claire Want?/What Next? questions:

With classes in session and the library busier, the conversation she and Marten had in 2366 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2366) comes back into play.  What happens when Claire's expectations about library life meets reality?  She's more passionate about the job than Tai or Marten, and wants to make it a career, but those two are old hands at the job by now; can Claire put aside her philosophical differences with Tai (re: the sanctity of libraries) enough to learn how to survive the daily grind?  It's something else I hope Jeph decides to explore.

And while I'm not suggesting that Tai introduces Claire to recreational drugs to help her mellow out and deal with the stress, you have to admit it would be hilarious...
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 01 Mar 2015, 23:55
And while I'm not suggesting that Tai introduces Claire to recreational drugs to help her mellow out and deal with the stress, you have to admit it would be hilarious...

Claire already uses a prescription antianxiety drug. I agree that her experience of a college library at peak usage times is going to be a shock. I can see her over-medicating and Marten having to take the resulting zombie home until she regains voluntary body control. I can also see Tai telling Claire that it's okay to be rude to troublemakers and giving her tips on the zingers to use on them.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: big89 on 02 Mar 2015, 20:37
I'm going to take this in a different direction and say that I'm honestly surprised that Marten went for Claire after expressing how he doesn't care to have sex with a trans woman (Read comic 615). That is of course assuming that he was being serious and not simply joking(which he appeared to be doing). So at the bare minimum he made a joke saying how sleeping with a trans Dora would "Shatter my mind". Maybe this points to Marten having issues that he isn't dealing with due to his infatuation with Claire. Just so I don't accidentally get some label I don't want, I have no problem with any relationship in this story, plus Claire and Marten are cute together.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 02 Mar 2015, 20:49
615 was well over a year ago, in-comic, and over ten years ago in our time, so either Marten has matured since then, or Jeph has, or both (answer: it's both).  I would suggest reading this discussion (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30492.0.html) on Marten's evolution as a character from someone who could make/participate in a transphobic joke to someone who is clearly comfortable dating a trans person.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 21:07
A secondary point is that Marten now has a real trans woman to think about, not some generic imaginary one.

Marten may simply have been playing the same game Dora was, also.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: anahata on 03 Mar 2015, 15:48
I'm going to take this in a different direction and say that I'm honestly surprised that Marten went for Claire after expressing how he doesn't care to have sex with a trans woman (Read comic 615).

He didn't exactly say that. The hypothetical scenario being acted out by both Dora and Marten was Dora announcing her status after they've had sex and are well into their relationship. It would be the revelation of a deception, which is a very different matter from mentioning it before the relationship has even started, as happened with Claire. In the latter case his mind isn't shattered because he's had plenty of time to mentally adjust to the idea.

And anyway, they were just joking around and over-reacting for comic effect...
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: plusorminus on 10 Mar 2015, 11:06
I love Claire. I don't see her and Marten stating together mainly because this is her first relationship. Ultimately those rarely ever last. It's a good fot for Marten, but in my view because of her lack of experience it isn't a good fit for her.

I forsee a break-up (eventually) followed by a reconciliation (way in the future). Then maybe wedding bells and what have you...

I apologize for brevity and grammar, stuck on a phone due to burglary.

I don't see this, really, any more than I see this happening for Marten and Dora. I do see this happening for Marten and Padma, though.

I think that Claire will start to chafe at Marten's lack of ambition (or the perceived lack of it) and Marten may try to "do stuff" to please her and feel annoyed or something along those lines, but it will lead to a "It's not you it's me" situation. They likely will stay friends. Alternately, Claire might get a gig in a high-powered archive halfway across the country or the world, and just as Marten was loath to move in with Dora without Faye, he likely will not be ready or willing to move with Claire.

I know the Padma question has been tabled for now, but I don't think it was an accident that she is made to have been from California and she throws out the "I wish I'd met you a year earlier," which is something that could have happened if Marten had tried to wait Faye out and/or Dora hadn't asked him out. I feel she is Marten's One and he is hers, and she will appear again.

I think Claire will experience a lot of growth and be less afraid to approach cis males in future, but I don't see her and Marten as endgame and I don't see her dying, either. :/

ETA: Sorry about the burglary!
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Mar 2015, 12:31
I don't think Marten has a "one". The OTP that we were led to believe would happen got torpedoed after strip 500-511.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: plusorminus on 10 Mar 2015, 13:20
I don't think Marten has a "one". The OTP that we were led to believe would happen got torpedoed after strip 500-511.

I don't mean to be contrary, but did you really believe that? I'm genuinely curious. I discovered this comic I believe through an LJ thread and I was intrigued because I, too, lost my father unexpectedly when I was about Faye's age (not to suicide), and the LJ chatter happened in the aftermath of The Talk. I had not ever seen grief of a daughter for a father in a webcomic and so I was intrigued and read through those strips. I then decided I needed context and spent the next couple of days binge-reading the comic, and I have to say at no time did I believe that Marten and Faye were going to be together. I actually thought Marten was going to hook up with Raven in one of those pairings of a zany dreamer and a sort of straight-laced dude, a Dharma and Greg sort of thing I guess. And considering the women that seemed to capture Marten's attention and the way she treated him, I often had to suspend my disbelief that Marten would be interested in Faye in the first place. But I came in after the blood had been spilled, more or less, and I don't know how I'd feel if I'd started reading from the beginning or if I'd started at another point in the comic (i.e. the Marten/Dora breakup).

But, topic: Maybe Marten doesn't have a one, but if he does, I think it's Padma. She's the only really loose thread in his dating history. Faye closed the door, Dora and California Girl dumped him, the Space Soldier wasn't interested and Delilah only wanted an ONS, and Claire is an open question. With Padma, stuff just ... ended. Neither of them wanted it to, but it did, and Marten turned the page because there wasn't really anything he could do. *shrugs* JMO.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 10 Mar 2015, 15:21
I think Marten and Faye were set up in the beginning to do the will-they-or-won't-they dance, but as jwouk said above, that ship has sunk. 
But, topic: Maybe Marten doesn't have a one, but if he does, I think it's Padma. She's the only really loose thread in his dating history. Faye closed the door, Dora and California Girl dumped him, the Space Soldier wasn't interested and Delilah only wanted an ONS, and Claire is an open question. With Padma, stuff just ... ended. Neither of them wanted it to, but it did, and Marten turned the page because there wasn't really anything he could do. *shrugs* JMO.

I liked Padma too, thought that she and Marten could've made a good couple, and was a bit disappointed that their fling ended (just imagine if circumstances had been different and they were still together when Veronica decided to move to Northampton with Jim.  That would've been fun), but I think they've both accepted that things are over between them, and I can't see anything that would cause Padma to move back to give Marten another try, short of baby drama, which Jeph doesn't do.

Quote from: plusorminus
I think that Claire will start to chafe at Marten's lack of ambition (or the perceived lack of it) and Marten may try to "do stuff" to please her and feel annoyed or something along those lines, but it will lead to a "It's not you it's me" situation. They likely will stay friends. Alternately, Claire might get a gig in a high-powered archive halfway across the country or the world, and just as Marten was loath to move in with Dora without Faye, he likely will not be ready or willing to move with Claire.

[...]

I think Claire will experience a lot of growth and be less afraid to approach cis males in future, but I don't see her and Marten as endgame and I don't see her dying, either. :/

That's always a possibility.  Claire's ambitions and Marten's own are something I hope we get to explore for several years (our time), and it's moments like these that I wish I had access to a time machine so I could jump ahead and binge-read all the comics I missed in between, rather than waiting for them one day at a time like everyone else. 

"All of time and space, anything that ever happened or ever will, where do you want to go first?"
"Uh, do you mind popping ahead to, say, 2020?  I wanna see if my favorite webcomic is still running."

I would make a terrible Companion.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Mar 2015, 19:44
I don't mean to be contrary, but did you really believe that?

Yes I do. The reason is simple: the comic ends there if Marten and Faye get together. Jeph stated it in Volume II of the DTE of comic.

As for Padma: I almost think that Padma had a reverse of what happened to Marten. Instead of chasing after his girlfriend across country, she retreated across country to her family. I'd bet that her grandmother is actually hale, hearty, and kicking ass at bingo right now.

"All of time and space, anything that ever happened or ever will, where do you want to go first?"
"Uh, do you mind popping ahead to, say, 2020?  I wanna see if my favorite webcomic is still running."

I would make a terrible Companion.
Hannelore's not going to let you anywhere near her TARDIS.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 10 Mar 2015, 20:56
The reason is simple: the comic ends there if Marten and Faye get together. Jeph stated it in Volume II of the DTE of comic.

Mostly because even Hannelore realizes how implausible it is, and ends the simulation right there.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 10 Mar 2015, 20:57
"All of time and space, anything that ever happened or ever will, where do you want to go first?"
"Uh, do you mind popping ahead to, say, 2020?  I wanna see if my favorite webcomic is still running."

I would make a terrible Companion.
Hannelore's not going to let you anywhere near her TARDIS.
So many regenerations and still not ginger.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 19 Apr 2015, 19:13
(Shameless bump!)

I'm renewing my wish for access to a time machine so I can read the next 5-10 years (fingers crossed!) of QC in one go, rather than a day at a time, because I keep forgetting that my essay above talks about what I want to see happen in Marten and Claire's relationship months or years down the road--screw waiting, I want all that to happen NOW!, goshdarnit.  Maybe I need to take a break and go binge-read some other long-running webcomic.

Anyway.  I keep bringing this up in the WCDTs, but since those discussions are quickly lost, I thought I'd say it here instead.  Basically: I want Claire to meet Sam.  Too lazy to explain why again, so I'll just leave these here:

I just want Sam to meet Claire so she can have another big sister to hang out with.

Although Faye lets Sam make swords, so Claire is already at a disadvantage in the "cool older sister" competition.

Sam worships frogs and is outdoorsy. Claire likes libraries. Also adding to the evidence that Claire doesn't work as a 'cool, older sister,' She's ALREADY an older sister, and not a cool one, especially, at least not to Clinton.

Hey, it's not Claire's fault she has a dorky little brother!  Although that dorky little brother has a robot hand, so Sam's loyalties may be further tested.

I actually agree that Clinton's a dork, but it's genetic. They are BOTH dorks. Sam is NOT a dork, though she might get into the hand, you bring up a point. Oh god, and she knows how to use a blowtorch now. I want them to meet just so I can see what happens.

And considering Sam's fascination with robotics, plus the fact that she has a big sister/little sister relationship with Emily, who is also fascinated with robotics AND might be dating Clinton in the near future...oh god, Claire doesn't stand a chance.

That's it, I want a Sam-meets-Claire-and-Clinton arc and I want it NOW VERY SOON.

[...]

Any scenario that allows Claire to meet Sam is fine by me. 

"Eee little sister!"

Faye starts officially babysitting Sam at the apartment and Claire stops by? I mean Faye's going to need some source of income, and Jim needs someone who can handle Sam.... Seems like a good match.

Dunno about that.  Faye taught Sam how to weld, so Claire wouldn't stand a chance.  Probably best if she and Sam got to hang out once without Sam's cooler older sister ruining things.  Maybe Marten and Claire spend a day with Veronica, Jim, and Sam, just some sort of proto-family gathering.  As long as Clinton doesn't tag along and ruin things by having a cool robot hand.

I mean, it'll happen eventually, once Marten and Claire are sufficiently established as a couple and start spending time with their families more.  And I get that there are other stories to tell in the meantime, like Faye putting her life back together, so I'm not gonna be too impatient about it.  But at some point Marten's mom is going to insist on having dinner with the new couple (which I hadn't thought about before now, and now I'm a bit worried for the two), and there will be other opportunities for family gatherings (last year's time-skip passed over Thanksgiving and Christmas, but perhaps one or both holidays will happen this year?), and at some point in the near future Claire will get to meet Sam.  It's the one meeting between two characters I'm actually excited about... 

Just, why can't it happen noowwwwww?

Sorry, rambling.  I just saw this thread getting too close to the bottom of the page, and panicked a bit.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: NilsO on 20 Apr 2015, 01:10
Yes I do. The reason is simple: the comic ends there if Marten and Faye get together. Jeph stated it in Volume II of the DTE of comic.
My guess is that Jeph has finalized the Endgame, and is ready to publish whenever he gets sick of QC. Let us hope he keeps going a few more years.

The Endgame must necessarily close unresolved issues, and give us a satisfactory final view of the main cast. A good sign of the Endgame would be the main cast settling down, getting married, and having kids. I guess there will be false Prophets (myself included), but the Truth belongs to Jeph alone.

Jeph seems to have killed off CoD already (last appearance here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2916)). The Library could come next. With Tai, Marten, Momo, and the interns Claire and Emily, the library is way overstaffed. There will be budget cuts and layoffs. My guess is that Tai will quit (she is not very motivated anyway), Marten will be fired (no formal job qualifications), Claire will get Tai's job, Momo will continue in her job (robots are very good librarians), and Emily will be out when her internship ends.

Possibly, Marten getting fired will be a Good Thing. He has been stuck in the library for way too long, and has no career development due to his passivity. He can perhaps get a better job, or even get serious with his musical career. What this will mean for his relationship with Claire, is more difficult to tell. I guess Claire is not going to be very interested (or supportive) of his musical career, perhaps leading to a breakup in the future.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: hakko504 on 20 Apr 2015, 02:40
Yes I do. The reason is simple: the comic ends there if Marten and Faye get together. Jeph stated it in Volume II of the DTE of comic.
My guess is that Jeph has finalized the Endgame, and is ready to publish whenever he gets sick of QC. Let us hope he keeps going a few more years.

The Endgame must necessarily close unresolved issues, and give us a satisfactory final view of the main cast. A good sign of the Endgame would be the main cast settling down, getting married, and having kids. I guess there will be false Prophets (myself included), but the Truth belongs to Jeph alone.

Jeph seems to have killed off CoD already (last appearance here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2916)). The Library could come next. With Tai, Marten, Momo, and the interns Claire and Emily, the library is way overstaffed. There will be budget cuts and layoffs. My guess is that Tai will quit (she is not very motivated anyway), Marten will be fired (no formal job qualifications), Claire will get Tai's job, Momo will continue in her job (robots are very good librarians), and Emily will be out when her internship ends.

Possibly, Marten getting fired will be a Good Thing. He has been stuck in the library for way too long, and has no career development due to his passivity. He can perhaps get a better job, or even get serious with his musical career. What this will mean for his relationship with Claire, is more difficult to tell. I guess Claire is not going to be very interested (or supportive) of his musical career, perhaps leading to a breakup in the future.
I don't think Jeph has killed off CoD yet. It's only been 30ish strips since the last appearance, and there is still (at least) 3 characters working there that will continue to interact with the rest of the cast both in- and out-side of the café. We've seen much longer streaks without the café earlier as well (the whole space sequence, the lake-house party etc.) We might see less of it in the future, but unless you're right in your assessment that the comic is starting its endgame, we will see it again.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Lubricus on 20 Apr 2015, 03:15
I think it's still too early for the endgame. There are many issues left to resolve, and wrapping them all up in a concentrated endgame story will feel forced. I expect to see separate complete stories about Marten's professional life, the development of his relationship with Claire, something about a lessening or other resolution of Hannlore's issues, definitely something resolving Faye's issues, something about Faye's art or eventual new employment, some resolution of Dora's issues with her brother, more about the fate of the various AnthroPCs and their rights, something about Marigold and Dale, and probably something about the further lives of Tai. At the very least. I can't see all of that resolved in one sitting, so to speak.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: NilsO on 20 Apr 2015, 06:18
@Lubricus: Very good summary of outstanding issues. There are quite a lot, and of course it will take time to resolve them all. The question is rather if Jeph starts to "wind down", by handling existing issues, but avoiding introducing new issues. Possibly there are too many issues at the moment, so a reduction would not necessarily be a Sign of the End Times.

I would also add the Faye/Sven relationship to the list of unresolved issues. And May.

If the day comes that everybody in the main cast are in stable and happy relationships (including Hanners, in a platonic relationship with Station), this would surely be The End? Steve/Cosette and Will/Penelope have pretty much disappeared already, and Dale/Marigold may soon follow, even Marten/Claire may fade away someday.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Nepiophage on 20 Apr 2015, 08:20
I have always felt that the very last QC arc will be Marten getting married -- but to whom? 
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 20 Apr 2015, 08:40
I have always felt that the very last QC arc will be Marten getting married -- but to whom?

Not necessarily married but moving out of the apartment and into a larger home, one that's somewhat family-ready. The whole point of QC has seemed to be how Marten is growing up, leaving behind the guy who was so traumatised by the extremely bad end of his relationship with Vicky that he was trying to avoid doing anything significant and instead taking charge of his life.

The whole point of the last strip would be: "I'm home from work; it was a good day and now I'm going to spend time with my friends and, tonight, make love to my significant other. All things considered, I have a fairly good life." Essentially the exact opposite of Strip 1.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Pilchard123 on 20 Apr 2015, 11:47
As far as the discussion of QC winding down:

I have no plans to end QC anytime soon.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Rghfrgl on 20 Apr 2015, 14:27
I have always felt that the very last QC arc will be Marten getting married -- but to whom?

I root for Claire, but it's gonna be Pintsize.

If it's Faye I will be angry.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Nepiophage on 20 Apr 2015, 23:07
Momo, of course.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Kugai on 20 Apr 2015, 23:12
Naaaah, that'll be Hanners marrying Momo.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Rghfrgl on 20 Apr 2015, 23:18
Momo is programmed in multiple techniques.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Tova on 21 Apr 2015, 00:15
You're all wrong. The last comic will be yelling bird.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Lubricus on 21 Apr 2015, 00:26
Yelling Bird marrying Harriet and/or Shame Orb?  :-P
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 21 Apr 2015, 02:11
Yelling Bird marrying Harriet and/or Shame Orb?  :-P

Harriet in a quadrupolar relationship with YB, Randy and Shame.

HARRIET: "I don't need to explain or apologise to anyone for the choices I make about my own life!"
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Zebediah on 21 Apr 2015, 04:20
HARRIET: "I don't need to explain or apologise to anyone for the choices I make about my own life!"

SHAME ORB: "YES YOU DO!"
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Nepiophage on 22 Apr 2015, 23:39
Actually it's more likley that Momo will steal Dale from Marigold, or try to.  (See millions of shitty chick novels)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Thrudd on 24 Apr 2015, 09:46
Actually it's more likley that Momo will steal Dale from Marigold, or try to.  (See millions of shitty chick novels)
I think it might be more likely to be May after she finally is able to buy her own chassis upgrade and get a small craft pilots license.  :roll:
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Teria on 26 Apr 2015, 15:21
Hi everybody, I'm new here and you'll all hate me in an instant.

Please no more Claire. Or at least, less Claire. I've never seen a more boring and uninteresting character in this strip. Being transgender doesn't make her interesting. Apart from that, she wants to be a librarian, has absolutely no sense of irony or personality and reminds me of a little dog which is happy when Marten pets it for a bit. Every other char in this story has more personality than her, and I think the only reason why Marten dates her is because she's at the far other end of the normality spectrum than his family, Dora, Faye, Pintsize, Tai and, uh, mostly everybody else. In all those crazy colours of the QC cast, Claire ist solid grey.

I hope this relationship does NOT last.

You may all hate me now. :)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Apr 2015, 16:08
Having a normal woman around creates even more chances for comedy. Remember that the anchor for a comedy act is the straight man.

The puns are kind of funny in a cringe-inducing way.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 26 Apr 2015, 16:53
I wouldn't call her boring or uninteresting, I just think she's more driven and ambitious than most of the cast, and less inclined to falter like the others.  As IICIH says, she's the anchor/"straight man."   Sven and Dora may be the most successful characters in the strip (if we ignore all the parents), but Sven is a slacker who mostly got his way through charm and luck, and Dora, despite being a somewhat-successful small-business owner is nonetheless constantly worried about going under.  As for the rest, Marten has big dreams of being a great musician, but doesn't put the practice time in; Faye has plenty of artistic talent but little ambition; Tai has her own dreams but spends most of her time goofing off, even at work; Marigold is self-employed but doesn't seem to have any further plans; Dale's economic situation is worse than the rest, so he's just trying to get by; Hannelore has massive wealth to fall back on whenever she needs it, and is more focused on her mental health than anything else; and we could go on.

None of these are really bad traits for these characters, especially since most of them are in their early- to mid-twenties and still figuring themselves out, but if you compare them to Claire, who has overcome most of the challenges involved in transitioning (although she still has anxiety problems, which may or may not be related) and is now focused on her career--and is actually taking steps to get the career she wants--then yeah, Claire seems boring.  She knows what she wants and she's doing what she needs to do to get what she wants?  Yawn. 

As for personality, okay, maybe she isn't the most well-adjusted character.  She was probably a bit of a loner as a teenager and spent her early college years focused on her studies and on transitioning, so maybe she hasn't had many friends.  At least, we know she hasn't had a boyfriend before--and didn't even think she could find romance, given her trans status--so maybe we should forgive her for turning into an excited puppy at the first sign of affection?  I'm a bitter old man at heart, but I imagine that's what being twitterpated is like.

And anyone who says she isn't funny is a dirty liar.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: TRVA123 on 26 Apr 2015, 18:35
I don't dislike Claire, but the original affection that I had for her is waning. I'm not entirely sure why, although I think it is her relationship with Marten. Their relationship annoys me.

I guess, for me, that kind of annoyance builds. Now, whenever I see Marten and Claire in a comic.. I just get aggravated.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 26 Apr 2015, 18:45
Having a normal woman around creates even more chances for comedy. Remember that the anchor for a comedy act is the straight man.

The puns are kind of funny in a cringe-inducing way.

Yeah, but she doesn't quite fit the bill. Can't put my finger on it, but there's something about her that doesn't fit the straight man mold in the way that, say, Margaret Dumont did. Then again, I'm partial to a certain type of straight man (not in on the joke, typically a bit put-upon...).
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 26 Apr 2015, 18:50
I don't dislike Claire, but the original affection that I had for her is waning. I'm not entirely sure why, although I think it is her relationship with Marten. Their relationship annoys me.

I guess, for me, that kind of annoyance builds. Now, whenever I see Marten and Claire in a comic.. I just get aggravated.

I'm kinda in the same boat.  I like her and Marten, both together and separate, but I'm feeling a bit of them-together fatigue.  As in, Jeph decided to spend a lot of time establishing them as a couple to convert the doubters and satisfy the rest of us, but I think he overdid it?  We breezed through one squee-worthy strip after another, from the head-scritches on the couch to Marten's declaration of like the next morning, then their very long first date, then their first night together and the morning after, all in less than 150 strips, so now it's like meh, what's next?  As things stand now, they're going to have to adopt a thousand puppies or something if they want to tug my heartstrings.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: celticgeek on 26 Apr 2015, 20:11
Maybe they could adopt 101 Dalmatians. 
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Nepiophage on 26 Apr 2015, 23:28
Maybe they could adopt 101 Dalmatians.

Or twenty puggles. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2373)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 26 Apr 2015, 23:38
I don't dislike Claire, but the original affection that I had for her is waning. I'm not entirely sure why, although I think it is her relationship with Marten. Their relationship annoys me.

I guess, for me, that kind of annoyance builds. Now, whenever I see Marten and Claire in a comic.. I just get aggravated.

I'm kinda in the same boat.  I like her and Marten, both together and separate, but I'm feeling a bit of them-together fatigue.  As in, Jeph decided to spend a lot of time establishing them as a couple to convert the doubters and satisfy the rest of us, but I think he overdid it?  We breezed through one squee-worthy strip after another, from the head-scritches on the couch to Marten's declaration of like the next morning, then their very long first date, then their first night together and the morning after, all in less than 150 strips, so now it's like meh, what's next?  As things stand now, they're going to have to adopt a thousand puppies or something if they want to tug my heartstrings.
Heartstring-tugging isn't only for the simply sweet. Add but a dash of bitter taste, and I promise to you, it shall be tugged anew.

Send the ship to the jagged reefs and see it sail into storm. If it comes out the other side in one piece, it will make for a more rounded story.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Teria on 27 Apr 2015, 02:35
No attack? Wow. Thanks everybody. :)

I agree, maybe it's only the lack of challenge with her that makes her look boring to me. I like the fun, crazy, over-the-top chars because they offer endless conflict and joke potential in a story. Claire, not so much.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 28 Apr 2015, 16:33
Heartstring-tugging isn't only for the simply sweet. Add but a dash of bitter taste, and I promise to you, it shall be tugged anew.

Send the ship to the jagged reefs and see it sail into storm. If it comes out the other side in one piece, it will make for a more rounded story.

Yeah, good point.  I was thinking "what cute things are left to happen?" when I should've been wondering "what can happen next?"  Obviously, everything has gone well for them so far--Claire didn't punch Marten in the junk while yelling about Hitler, Marten didn't say or do anything stupid either--but that was all just setup.  But last week we started getting signs that something is going to happen.  The interns came with expiration dates when they were first introduced; unlike most of the other characters, Gabby and Emily and Claire had only a limited time in their roles before things would have to change.  Gabby didn't make it (alas), but Claire and Emily did, and now their time as interns is coming to an end, meaning...what?

I don't see either of them getting written out of the strip, of course.  Jeph likes both of them too much, and he wouldn't have spent that much time setting up Claire and Marten just to pull the rug out from under us.  But there's still the question about what they'll do next.  I'm not sure if Emily will stay in the library, since she was only interning because she "likes books" and didn't seem as concerned about Tai's unprofessional evaluation as Claire was.  The library is pretty well-staffed with Marten and Tai and Momo already (if Momo still works there--I suspect her absense is just oversight on Jeph's part), so adding both Emily and Claire would probably be unnecessary (although I could be wrong), and Emily would still have a link to the characters as Clinton's girlfriend.  As for Claire, if she doesn't get hired there, I'll be very surprised.  I won't speculate on whether she'll be an additional employee or replace Tai or Marten, since I want to talk about other things, but either is possible.

And Claire getting hired as a librarian and remaining in the cast does hint at a potential endgame.  When he was dating Dora, Marten never seemed pressured to improve his lot in life.  Despite dating someone slightly older than him, who had taken a different course in life after college and had gone on to start her own business, he seemed content to continue coasting along in his job and only halfheartedly working on his music.  That's as far as we know, of course, but there was never any indication that Marten and Dora were concerned about their future together.  If they were, Marten would probably have been inspired to actually make some goals and work towards achieving them. 

But things feel different with Claire in the picture.  Unlike Dora, who had already achieved her goals, Claire is still working on them.  She's much closer to Marten in that respect--but unlike Marten, she has a much more solid plan in mind.  And I don't think she's going to be satisfied having a partner who doesn't have a plan of his own.  That's not to say she'll be the stereotypical harpy-who-wants-to-change-her-man, but I can't imagine she'll stay silent when it comes to Marten's career goals.  Claire just might be the motivation Marten needs and didn't get with Dora.  He's already feeling unsatisfied with just treading water, so it shouldn't be hard for her to start nudging him in a direction he wants to go--specifically, back to band practice, and eventually to his first show. 

(Although the Patreon comic, if made canon, makes it clear that Amir is the one who sets things in motion--but Marten's probably going to need a bit of a confidence boost from time to time to stay motivated, hence Claire.)

Like I said, endgame.  Or several moves before it.  Third quarter, in sportsball terms.  Questionable Content is still a slice-of-life story with no over-arching goal in mind, but it would be rather disheartening if Jeph ended the comic with Marten in the same rut he was stuck in in the beginning.  I much prefer BenRG's idea (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30504.msg1316670.html#msg1316670) of Marten coming home from a job he loves, happy with the way his life is going, a reversed image of the first strip.  Whether that happens after just one more year of comics or after another ten, and whether or not Claire is in the picture at that point, it still feels like QC is starting to turn in that direction, and I really feel that Marten's relationship with Claire is going to be a factor in that.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 28 Apr 2015, 17:02
...of course, when I say endgame/third quarter, I just meant for Marten's arc in the comic.  As Lubricus pointed out (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30504.msg1316619.html#msg1316619), there are a lot of unresolved stories out there, so even if we're closer to the end than the beginning there are still years of strips before that happens.  Five comics a week comes to roughly 250 a year, so if QC goes on for another 5-10 years there is still plenty of room for development.

Also, we'll hit strip #3000 in July.  Are we in for something new, like Momo's new chassis in #2000, or something old, like the naked ladies in #1000?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 28 Apr 2015, 17:34
Random prediction: The strip will end at 5000.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 28 Apr 2015, 17:47
Jeph did say in #509 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=509) that he wasn't sure if "The Talk" marked "the halfway point or 3/4ths point or hell the 1/10ths point of the overall story."  His first two guesses were wrong, but #5000 would be right on the mark.  I can see it happening, and I'd be happy with 7-8 more years of QC.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Apr 2015, 18:29
No attack? Wow. Thanks everybody. :)

We take the civility rule seriously here.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: hedgie on 28 Apr 2015, 20:30
Random prediction: The strip will end at 5000.

The Law of Fives is never wrong.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: de_la_Nae on 03 May 2015, 13:27
I am a firm proponent of the SS Claireten.

That said, it may sink one day. Such is life.

I'm glad we can focus on some other things now.

(for now dun dun duuuun)


Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Jab on 04 May 2015, 00:07
I'm really not feeling it with them. Claire seems to just be "The one who makes terrible puns", and their dates/interactions consist entirely of overly-obvious attempts at being cutesy. The "Head-Scritching" and the "You're girlfriend's a dork" ">__< I KNOW!" being the most-apparent examples. It just feels too over-the-top and "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO CUTE YOU GUYS SHOULD ALL LOVE THIS!" to me. It's cloying.

Marten & Dora had an interesting dynamic- she was bossy, controlling and relentlessly-paranoid while he was weak, frequently-spineless and had no ability to deal with anger or stress. Obviously Marten/Faye was such an interesting dynamic that it basically ran the strip for 500+ strips, and continued/s to be important. Even Marten & Padma was interesting because of his issues in dealing with it. I'm not feeling anything with them. Maybe if they start acting so cute that it annoys everyone (reminds me of that great Seinfeld episode where he & his girlfriend irritate everyone by calling the other "Shmoopie!"). But otherwise, there's too little there.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: de_la_Nae on 04 May 2015, 00:24
Christ


It's like there's a sizable portion of the readership that demands blood in the water, and the earlier the better.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 04 May 2015, 00:46
It's like there's a sizable portion of the readership that demands blood in the water, and the earlier the better.

I think that it's more of a case that they think that a happy couple makes for a boring story. Only through conflict, pain and angst can this ship be interesting to them.

It's the classic Mulder/Scully Effect - The 'will they/ won't they' is compulsive viewing but the very same fans find a settled relationship for the characters boring. They need constant dynamic change (for better or worse) to keep invested.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: de_la_Nae on 04 May 2015, 03:42
That sounds insane to me. They have to get a valley sometimes, or the next peak won't have any effect.

Where are they getting their lows, then?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Thrudd on 04 May 2015, 08:52
CNN, Fox or the weather network.  :-P
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 04 May 2015, 08:53
Christ


It's like there's a sizable portion of the readership that demands blood in the water, and the earlier the better.
How do I break this to you, de la Nae? We're... We're all sharks. I'm so sorry we didn't tell you sooner.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Thrudd on 04 May 2015, 09:13
Not all are sharks. Some are pilot fish just tagging along waiting for tasty morsels.

There are also barracuda, Clownfish, wrasses, moray eels, gobies and the innumerable cuttlefish [aka lurkers].
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: DSL on 04 May 2015, 09:33
"Fish are friends, not food!"
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Zebediah on 04 May 2015, 09:51
And some of us are sea turtles, dude.

(http://static.tumblr.com/871fc907059ab5b3e6d9b6ed985372be/jujg5xu/tC1mhb0f0/tumblr_static_crush2.png)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Thrudd on 04 May 2015, 10:17
Oh, and here I thought you were an old coot.  :clairedoge:

As an aside, I just realized that there was something common about most of the fish species I listed.   :wink:
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: de_la_Nae on 04 May 2015, 12:45
you guys~

Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: TRVA123 on 04 May 2015, 16:06
I think it is more like the Erkel effect. A new character comes, everyone is excited because this new character is quirky and awesome. So they give the character a bigger and bigger part. Soon the character is dating another character. Then the story is ONLY ABOUT THAT, screw any other plot lines. or, even better, we will work the new character couple INTO these other plotlines! even if there is no reason for them to be there! After all, everyone loves this character, how could anyone ever get sick of them. No such thing as too much of a good thing AMIRITE?!!?!?!

I don't dislike Marten and Claire, nor do I wish bad things would happen to their relationship. But at this point, only show them if they directly affect the plot of the comic, and if you mention their relationship, do it in a way that furthers their plotline.

To me, it feels like their plot has stagnated. and I have no interest in 500 more strips of the same goddam thing. Steve and an adventure with his kiebler elves would be more interesting.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: ASB84 on 04 May 2015, 18:43
There's a lot of ground between "drama-filled relationship implosion" and "sickeningly sweet and cutesy". For those of us who aren't loving every moment of Marten and Claire, we're not (all) asking for drama, just more of a balance between cute moments, funny moments, character development, and so on. To represent our point of view with a false dichotomy like that is just silly. There doesn't have to be constant angst, but when every moment comes down to "Look how cute they are! Squee squee squee!', for some of us that alternates between boring and irritating. Or irritatingly boring.

I think it is more like the Erkel effect. A new character comes, everyone is excited because this new character is quirky and awesome. So they give the character a bigger and bigger part. Soon the character is dating another character. Then the story is ONLY ABOUT THAT, screw any other plot lines. or, even better, we will work the new character couple INTO these other plotlines! even if there is no reason for them to be there! After all, everyone loves this character, how could anyone ever get sick of them. No such thing as too much of a good thing AMIRITE?!!?!?!

I don't dislike Marten and Claire, nor do I wish bad things would happen to their relationship. But at this point, only show them if they directly affect the plot of the comic, and if you mention their relationship, do it in a way that furthers their plotline.

To me, it feels like their plot has stagnated. and I have no interest in 500 more strips of the same goddam thing. Steve and an adventure with his kiebler elves would be more interesting.

I'm really not feeling it with them. Claire seems to just be "The one who makes terrible puns", and their dates/interactions consist entirely of overly-obvious attempts at being cutesy. The "Head-Scritching" and the "You're girlfriend's a dork" ">__< I KNOW!" being the most-apparent examples. It just feels too over-the-top and "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO CUTE YOU GUYS SHOULD ALL LOVE THIS!" to me. It's cloying.

Marten & Dora had an interesting dynamic- she was bossy, controlling and relentlessly-paranoid while he was weak, frequently-spineless and had no ability to deal with anger or stress. Obviously Marten/Faye was such an interesting dynamic that it basically ran the strip for 500+ strips, and continued/s to be important. Even Marten & Padma was interesting because of his issues in dealing with it. I'm not feeling anything with them. Maybe if they start acting so cute that it annoys everyone (reminds me of that great Seinfeld episode where he & his girlfriend irritate everyone by calling the other "Shmoopie!"). But otherwise, there's too little there.

I think you've both nailed it in those posts. At times, I think there's been a bit too much shilling of them as a couple. In addition to the examples you mentioned, Jab, there's also the reaction of seemingly everyone else in the strip when they got together. The punchline of someone finding out and having an over the top joyful and excited reaction to seeing they were a couple was a bit on the nose. At times, it felt just a few steps away from one of the other characters turning to address us and shattering the fourth wall by saying "Wow, isn't this great? Aren't they just the cutest couple ever? This is amazing!"

Compare that to Marten and Dora. Ultimately, that relationship wasn't going to last, and you could certainly argue that Marten and Claire are a better match. But I think the relationship between Marten and Dora was portrayed a lot better, taking into account the reactions of the other characters, the balance between punchlines, cute moments, and more dramatic fare, and their involvement in other characters' arcs. I also think there was a better build to the relationship happening in the first place.

Look, I get that it must be tiresome for people who are loving "Claireten" (which would appear to be the majority) to hear anything negative from people who aren't enjoying it so much. We all bristle when we hear someone criticise a band we like, a TV show we enjoy, our all-time favourite movie, the sport/team/player we follow...I get it. But I think we're (still) being unfairly portrayed as joyless misanthropes who want nothing but angst, when most of us who feel that way about the relationship are just a little tired of cutesy stuff, especially when it seems to be the whole point of the story, and when there's nothing to cut through the treacle. For a community that happily (and rightfully) goes to great lengths to be inclusive and progressive, I have to admit that it's a bit disheartening for us to be shouted down in such a sneering manner. Again, I'm sure it gets a bit tiresome to hear the negativity, but I think a lot of those posts are actually trying to clear up misconceptions and explain a point of view. It's not about ramming the point down your throat, it's more about "Hold up, you're not quite getting where we're coming from here; that's not what we're saying, this is what we're saying."
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 May 2015, 19:14
Well put! But there will be plenty of complications later, no doubt, rather than endless continuation of the squeefest.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: TRVA123 on 04 May 2015, 19:25
That might be true, but something that may or may not happen down the road isn't really keeping me engaged in the comic now.

I like this comic, I've been reading it for years. I really don't want to wake up one day and realize that the comic has become boring for me.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 04 May 2015, 19:30
I don't think QC has jumped the shark yet, but it's easy to see how it could go that way.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: mustang6172 on 04 May 2015, 19:41
I suppose Veronica's sudden relocation could be seen as an act of shark jumping.

Not much of a shark though.  Maybe it was more like a manta ray.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: TRVA123 on 04 May 2015, 19:42
I would love to see Veronica literally jump the shark. The ocean is within driving distance, right?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 04 May 2015, 19:54
Marten literally went into outer space three years ago.  After that, any discussion about jumping the shark seems kinda ridiculous.

That said, I was firmly Team Claireten when they first got together, and for most of the next 150 strips, but I agree that it's starting to get a bit dull.  And I think Jeph was just starting to wrap up the honeymoon phase these last two weeks, with Claire nearing the end of her internship and Marten's mom not even batting an eye at their relationship.  Like I said above, Claire getting an actual job at the library might bring a bit of complication into the mix.  But that plot apparently got a bit derailed by Jeph's anxiety attack last week, and it looks like he wanted to focus on something else for this week, so if we're treated to few more panels of Marten and Claire being cute with each other in the background, whatever, I can take it.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: de_la_Nae on 04 May 2015, 20:56
^

Maybe I'm just too busy dealing with all the ridiculous bullshit in real life, chock full of its violence and sadness, that I'm a little sensitive to not wanting to jump right back into it in all my stories. Maybe that's on me.

Just seems a little odd sometimes, like I've said, considering how long it took Marten and Dora to have any serious problems, and I don't remember people getting all eugh about that, though maybe I haven't filed it away properly.

That said, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ again; it's not like the icebergs aren't up ahead.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: ASB84 on 04 May 2015, 21:05
That might be true, but something that may or may not happen down the road isn't really keeping me engaged in the comic now.

I like this comic, I've been reading it for years. I really don't want to wake up one day and realize that the comic has become boring for me.

I have to admit, I was feeling a bit that way during the date arc; that the comic had lost the spark that got me interested in the first place, and that perhaps it was time to stop reading, or at least stop reading every day, so that the arcs would unfold at a quicker pace and I could skim over anything that I didn't find gripping by way of a catch-up binge. I'm glad I stuck it out though, as there have been good arcs and funny moments since.

QC is high enough quality and I feel invested in it enough to be patient and stick with it through times where I'm not enthralled with the current direction, and the last thing I'm ever going to do is leave in a huff; I hate when folks do that online, in the name of getting some attention just because they don't like something anymore. But there were a few moments late last year where I found myself thinking "Man, I'm really not enjoying this. Is it time to stop reading?", which was unfortunate and a little sad. I'm a "to the bitter end" kind of person when it comes to my favourite TV shows and whatnot, so it's rare that I give up on something before its run is over. But again, I'm glad that I didn't, and although cute overload makes me cringe a little, I still want to stick around.

^

Maybe I'm just too busy dealing with all the ridiculous bullshit in real life, chock full of its violence and sadness, that I'm a little sensitive to not wanting to jump right back into it in all my stories. Maybe that's on me.

Just seems a little odd sometimes, like I've said, considering how long it took Marten and Dora to have any serious problems, and I don't remember people getting all eugh about that, though maybe I haven't filed it away properly.

That said, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ again; it's not like the icebergs aren't up ahead.

Completely understandable, and I'm all for fiction giving us some feel good moments, especially during times when the real world is being a bit unkind. But like I said, it's not like we're all necessarily asking for angst and sadness, just less over-the-top cutesy-poo squee fodder. That was the difference between Marten/Dora and Marten/Claire; the former wasn't over-the-top in terms of cuteness, nor tried to push the relationship as The Most Wonderful Thing Ever, which the latter kind of has been. Again, there's a lot of ground between angst and adorable perfection. We're not saying make them sad, some of us would just like the saccharine moments toned down a tad.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 05 May 2015, 02:03
FWIW, one of the things that annoys me about the debate on this is that I think that we are past the 'focus on cute relationship' phase in how Jeph is showing Marten and Claire. The last two times Claire and Marten were the feature characters, the stories were about Claire's studies and career and, prior to that, her relationship with Faye. Even before that, the most recent "we're fine" moment was a genuine character-building moment with Claire expressing her fears about how Marten feels about being intimate with a transwoman - it was her statement of her feelings that mattered, not necessarily Marten's response, which was a boilerplate (although interestingly nuanced in its own way).

As has been stated ad nauseum, we are only about 10-14 days into their formal relationship; expecting more than cloud nine from either of them at this point is probably unrealistic.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: aliensporebomb on 05 May 2015, 08:35
I think killing Claire would be far too dramatic for this strip but here's how I think it could actually go:

-We're coming up to the point where the interns are developing experience and getting recommendations from advisors.
-Claire seems pretty determined that this is where her future career lies.
-What if she gets a job offer?  She may have been sending resumes out already.
-If she has to move several states away to get a decent job in that field then she might have to.
-Long distance relationships are tough.

Yes it's possible the S.S. ClaireTen may sink but it will be due to mundane things like distance not suddenly exploding coffee cups or cars driving into the front window at COD.

Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: TRVA123 on 05 May 2015, 15:42
As has been stated ad nauseum, we are only about 10-14 days into their formal relationship; expecting more than cloud nine from either of them at this point is probably unrealistic.

But that also speaks to the current pacing of the comic. QC has always been a slow burn, but this is the slowest that it has ever been. And yes, maybe the pacing isn't as agonizing when you binge read, but that isn't how most people consume this comic.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Kugai on 05 May 2015, 16:09
But there doesn't have to be major drama between them.  i'm not saying that Jeph won't or shouldn't include some drama, but I'm just wondering if it's coming to pass that after so many years of Marten being a 'Relationship Punching Bag' (so to speak) it might not be time for him to be allowed to have a long term, good relationship and that Claire may just be the 'Fit' for Marten.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: TRVA123 on 05 May 2015, 16:42
Who is saying that there has to be major drama between Marten and Claire?

Marten and Claire are a couple, great. be happy. Now Jeph should have them take a backseat to the rest of the cast, unless he has some actual plot development for them. Seeing the characters individually would also be a nice change.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: ASB84 on 05 May 2015, 18:32
I think some sort of conflict/drama is necessary at some point, but I'm not eager to see it just yet. I'd actually prefer to see more humour, them being a part of a group that's socialising, "Seinfeldian" conversation, making wry comments and throwing out the odd witticism...that's what we got with Marten and Dora, and that's why it worked. Obviously Marten and Claire have a different dynamic, so those situations might play out a little differently this time around, with their own punchlines and so on. The important thing is showing them in a context that offers more than cutesy-poo imagery, and situations that exist for reasons beyond "Hey, look how cute they're being? Aren't they cute?".

So no, I for one am not asking for angst and drama. I want humour, wit, amusing escapades, more "mundane" moments that run the gamut of them hanging out with each other, hanging out alone, or hanging out with other members of the cast...interactions that move plots forward. Have the cute/sweet moments happen along the way, rather than seemingly being the only point of having them appear. I'm not saying that stuff hasn't happened - Clinton's date and a bit of crossover with Faye's arc are obvious examples - but for me, the current ratio isn't quite to my taste. Personal preference, our mileage may vary, and all that.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 May 2015, 21:49
So no, I for one am not asking for angst and drama. I want humour, wit, amusing escapades, more "mundane" moments that run the gamut of them hanging out with each other, hanging out alone, or hanging out with other members of the cast...interactions that move plots forward. Have the cute/sweet moments happen along the way, rather than seemingly being the only point of having them appear. I'm not saying that stuff hasn't happened - Clinton's date and a bit of crossover with Faye's arc are obvious examples - but for me, the current ratio isn't quite to my taste. Personal preference, our mileage may vary, and all that.

I completely agree.  And regarding the slowed pacing, I think the new layout has something to do with it.  While the larger panels have made it possible for Jeph to show us more intimate moments between characters (especially 2892 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2892)--that scene would've lost a lot in the old 4-panel vertical layout), I think he sacrificed the potential for large group hangouts.  The number of comics featuring three or more characters, all contributing to the conversation, has dropped significantly.  When was the last time everyone got together for old times' sake?  "Another Night Out" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2794) barely cut it--you have to go back to the pre-2600s to get any meaningful group interaction.  Marten hasn't even interacted with Dora or Steve since that night--but I doubt they'll show up together in the same strip anytime soon, so they'll probably find out about Marten and Claire individually, leading to more Claireten-centric stories.

(Obviously, Dora found out about the two of them from Faye the day after the scritches, but as far as we know she hasn't seen Marten since, so I imagine there'll be a congratulations-on-the-new-lady conversation when next they meet.  Sigh.)

(Also, it doesn't help things that Faye and Dora are kind of estranged at the moment, so a get-together with the old regulars isn't likely to happen anytime soon...)

I can't complain too much, though--I still love QC, and the pacing isn't nearly as glacial as my newfound love Dumbing of Age--but I really hope to see a large group gathering sometime in the near future, something along the lines of the 2014 cast poster (http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-CASTPOSTER2014&Category_Code=QC) from the store, obviously with a few minor changes in character attendance. 

(http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/00000001/qc-cast-poster20141.jpg)

End-of-summer/start-of-fall barbecue?  Engagement party for a certain mother and her new beau?  I don't care, just make it happen.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 05 Jun 2015, 07:48
Perhaps God couldn't, but Faye just might.

Yes, I know she's insistent on not screwing Marten over again, but do y'all honestly expect this evening to pass without incident?  Faye's prickly on a good day, let alone a drunk, miserable, and embarrassed one.  Claire makes quick assumptions, carries trust issues from her childhood, and lacks experience and tact.  Marten's already stressed just from Faye's lapse.  This can't end well.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jun 2015, 15:54
I honestly did not consider Faye being a factor in this relationship.  Weird thing to overlook, huh?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: themacnut on 06 Jun 2015, 04:16
Faye will continue to be a factor in any romantic relationship Marten is in long as they live together, and her alcoholism complicates the situation further, especially since Marten feels obliged to care for her when she falls of the wagon. That's the kind of thing that could stretch a girlfriend's understanding and tolerance to the limit, especially if said girlfriend knows they almost banged.

Put that together with Claire's inexperience with relationships and her insecurities about cheating, and end result is a 'ship that's actually quite sinkable. She and Marten have some treacherous icebergs to navigate if they're to avoid sinking.


Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Stoon on 06 Jun 2015, 21:41
I kept talking about Questionable Content to a friend of mine, and he realized he stopped reading it at some point.  He said he's missed a lot more of the archives than he thought. 

A few days ago he linked me this comic, thought it was an interesting bit of foreshadowing considering the relationship of Claire and Martin.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 06 Jun 2015, 22:01
Yeah, we'e talked about that one already, both here and in this thread (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30492.0.html).  It can either be seen as a sign of Marten's character changing over roughly 1-1/2 to 2 years in-comic, or just a risqué joke that seemed funny 9-ish years/2300+ strips ago but that Jeph would never tell now.  Like a few other jokes in the really early comics, for that matter.  As Samuel Goldwyn once said, we've all passed a lot of water since then.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Storel on 10 Jun 2015, 22:54
As Samuel Goldwyn once said, we've all passed a lot of water since then.

 :laugh: That's a Goldwynism I haven't heard before, thanks!

The one I quote most is "A verbal contract ain't worth the paper it's written on."
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 10 Jun 2015, 23:38
I wanted to add "Don't talk to me while I'm interrupting" to my signature, but Google can't decide if it's from Goldwyn or Michael Curtiz.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Jun 2015, 17:17
One of my favorite Goldwyn anecdotes: he was watching a test screening of a film, and told the director it was 37 minutes too long.* The director asked how he knew it was exactly 37 minutes and he replied, "That's when my ass started to hurt."

*I'm paraphrasing. It's been a while.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: StellaVator on 22 Jun 2015, 21:06
I kept talking about Questionable Content to a friend of mine, and he realized he stopped reading it at some point.  He said he's missed a lot more of the archives than he thought. 

A few days ago he linked me this comic, thought it was an interesting bit of foreshadowing considering the relationship of Claire and Martin.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=615)

Yea, now that comic would be considered "transphobic" because "WOW what's wrong with being born a man and transitioning?!?!! And it's really transphobic to say "born a man" because if they're trans*, they were ALWAYS a woman, and just had a gender slapped on them by a transmisogynistic doctor you BIGOT".

Strange world, huh? I'm honestly surprised Jeph hasn't gone back and deleted that comic or replaced that bit with something more tolerant like he's done before with another comic.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Jun 2015, 21:40
More than one other. There was the Sara cartoon, and the Yelling Bird/Harriet fireworks cartoon.

I look at it as character growth for Marten.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: hedgie on 22 Jun 2015, 22:06
It could be remaining as it is to show character growth, as well as evolution of society.  I don't know whether or not it was a true ret-con, but in the beginning, robots were more like pets, but Clinton's first appearance was about an AI civil rights amendment, and later, Anthro-PCs were, under the law, the same as biological beings.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 24 Jun 2015, 00:22
Yea, now that comic would be considered "transphobic"

I've heard people make this case before about 615, but I seriously don't get it.  If one's attraction has biases based on biological sex (which I'll admit is an odd concept to me, but clearly not everyone's bisexual) then having sex with a post-op trans* person could be quite a lot to wrap one's mind around.  It's not prejudiced to have one's mind shattered by such a revelation in that case, and it's certainly not prejudiced to depict a character in that position.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Jun 2015, 10:33
But it's also not the inclusiveness which Jeph identifies as a major theme of Questionable Content.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: DSL on 24 Jun 2015, 13:34
I will posit that the author of the current strips is, in a way, a different person than the person who wrote 615.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 24 Jun 2015, 14:48
Jeph mentioned having done a lot of research before he felt qualified to write about Claire's back story.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Theinternetsurvivor on 12 Jul 2015, 22:30
I honestly hope that Jeph will decide to eventually do some changes on the character's lives soon, like for example, Marten reunites the Deathmole band and they perform in some places and a carrer starts to be a reality, Faye getting some great feedback with her skills with metal, Coffee of Doom turns out to be even more successful at the point of being a bigger company with more places being set in other locations, a more brief story of Sven's carrer maybe, and also Angus' (why not?) and among other characters.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jan 2016, 17:14
Shameless bump! 

Sorry, but this discussion was getting too close to the bottom of page 2 for comfort, so I thought I'd resurrect it.  And since the long-awaited (and long overdue?) time skip has happened, it's probably as good a time as any to bring it back.

I honestly hope that Jeph will decide to eventually do some changes on the character's lives soon, like for example, Marten reunites the Deathmole band and they perform in some places and a carrer starts to be a reality, Faye getting some great feedback with her skills with metal, Coffee of Doom turns out to be even more successful at the point of being a bigger company with more places being set in other locations, a more brief story of Sven's carrer maybe, and also Angus' (why not?) and among other characters.

Honestly, I have no idea where the comic is going now.  I really thought that Faye's firing and subsequent joblessness would be a much bigger factor in the future of QC than it turned out to be--as in, her job search would be much less fruitful, leading to her having trouble with that month's rent, and Marten struggling too since he had recently (in-comic) blown his savings on a new guitar.  I figured that, combined with a bit of egging on from Claire, would lead to him having serious thoughts about his future at the library and cause him to become more serious about Deathmole.  Instead, Faye had no trouble getting back on her feet and finding a new job, in a way that felt too easy and far-fetched even for a comic as weird and far-fetched as QC can sometimes be.  And maybe it's just me, but Bubbles still feels like a character who belongs more in Alice Grove than here.  Probably just me.

So, several months after Marten and Claire started dating and Faye lost both Angus and her job, Marten and Claire are still together (and possibly living together?), Faye's employed, Claire is no longer interning at the library, Coffee of Doom hasn't been burned to the ground by Emily, and...? We'll probably find out more throughout the week.  As for me, I'm fresh out of predictions.  What do the rest of you think?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: RetroRefractive Noodle on 05 Jan 2016, 17:46
One could argue that having one's mind shattered is not always a bad thing.

So you just had sex with a person who transitioned from one to the other... it blows your mind.    You just realized 1)  It's not an issue after all 2) you're ok with this bit of information 3) the sex was satisfying for both parties and holy s*it what was the question again?

Marten never came off as homophobic,  he stated that he just wasn't into guys.    He never stated that he was transphobic either,  he's simply stating sex with a trans-person would be a mind-shattering experience.

In many ways it has been.   He's done the horizontal demolition-derby (or equally creative euphemism) with Claire and look at that -- his worldview has been altered.  He's much happier and less mope-ish.

Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jan 2016, 17:52
I did not revive this discussion thread so we could have THAT discussion again.  Ugh.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Jan 2016, 18:49
Global Moderator Comment Caution please.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: RetroRefractive Noodle on 05 Jan 2016, 19:04
I did not revive this discussion thread so we could have THAT discussion again.  Ugh.

No snark intended here,  but maybe you should consider labeling conversations that you want to continue discussing and which ones are not viable due to forum-culture rules or other considerations.

Not everyone here has a feel for what is acceptable and what is not,  and really it is not fair to lay out landmines and then get angry when people trigger them. 

I was a member here long ago,  I left because of Trigger Culture.   Oh we can't say this,  discuss that, everything is offensive,  everything causes someone to be injured or suffer an episode because reasons.

And here we go again.   First attempt to strike up a conversation and people are upset already.

Is It Cold In Here,  I am going to send you a PM when I finish here.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jan 2016, 19:15
This has nothing to do with triggers.  I asked what was next in the comic for Marten and Claire, you tried to bring up a topic that's been over-analyzed to death and clearly doesn't need further debate.  Claire is trans, Marten is fine with that, very old strips that seem to say otherwise are more product-of-their-time than canon, now can we please move on.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Tova on 05 Jan 2016, 19:22
I did not revive this discussion thread so we could have THAT discussion again.  Ugh.

I don't disagree. But to be fair, you did bump a thread whose last page was dominated by that very discussion. So it's not really surprising that someone picked it up again.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jan 2016, 19:43
Yeah, I clearly didn't think this one through.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Jan 2016, 21:18
There is only one thing I'm a bit concerned about - is Faye still living with Marten and Claire, if (as assumed) Claire has moved in with Marten?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jan 2016, 21:26
She and Bubbles have found a cozy little loft apartment somewhere.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Jan 2016, 05:57
It might be like the arrangement they had when Dora moved in, with Claire sleeping in Marten's room.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Oenone on 06 Jan 2016, 06:07
Given how territorial Faye is, it'd be interesting to see how her and Claire interact if they're living together.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: BenRG on 06 Jan 2016, 07:10
Given how territorial Faye is, it'd be interesting to see how her and Claire interact if they're living together.

The precedent of Dora's time living in the apartment is interesting. There were strips when it was very clear that Faye and Dora were 'sharing' Marten in emotional terms, at least. To the point where, one Halloween, he was the chosen thing to hug for comfort for both ladies simultaneously when a scary movie made them particularly jumpy. Of course, Faye and Dora had the advantage of a pre-existing friendship and didn't have the occasional simmering antagonism that Faye has with Claire.

That said, Faye does seem to have relaxed around Claire after they bonded over brutalising Pintsize (and was that deliberate? Did Pintsize deliberately trigger that incident over breakfast to force Claire and Faye to bury the hatchet in the face of a common irritant?). Claire has tried to be friendly and understanding to Faye at times. So, I can see the two of them at the very least being in a situation of mutual tolerance for Marten's sake.

There is only one thing I'm a bit concerned about - is Faye still living with Marten and Claire, if (as assumed) Claire has moved in with Marten?

I wouldn't use the word 'concerned', myself, only 'curious'. FWIW - Yes, I think that Claire has moved in and, yes, I think that Faye is still living there. Where else would she go, right now?
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Jan 2016, 07:23
The Faye/Dora/Marten relationship is a lot different than the Faye/Claire/Marten relationship as well. Both Faye and Dora had some romantic intentions towards Marten at the time, but Faye was not in an emotional position to act on them. And Marten had romantic feelings towards both Faye and Dora. While everyone may have agreed that it was best that Marten move on and find happiness in someone else rather than wait and see if Faye would ever be in a state where she could get that close to someone... emotions are a lot harder to convince than logic. So there is that friction. Then you add in Dora's relationship trust issues, and the Faye/Dora work relationship and yeah.. it's not that surprising that things were stressful.

Now though, the ship Fayten not only never sailed, but it's been decommissioned and re purposed. Faye and Marten's relationship is not and super unlikely ever will be of a romantic nature. They are now closer to best friends or siblings. Claire has no jealousy issues towards Faye, or bad experiences with past romances to color her relationship with Marten. And Faye herself approved of and pushed Claire towards Marten, offering up her approval of the pairing. The two women may have some abrasive edges around each other, but both know they are not competing for Marten's romantic affection.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Morituri on 08 Jan 2016, 18:20
I dunno, but I sort of expect that having sex happens when a relationship has reached a point where you trust each other.

Finding out that someone I just slept with used to be a guy wouldn't shatter my mind, but realizing that someone was okay with having sex with me but not ready to trust me -- I think I'd find that more than a little weird.

To me the whole deal of realizing that the trust you thought existed wasn't there for her (or at least not enough to let you in on something like that) would be disturbing.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Jan 2016, 18:53
Dora should have known better than to say "used to be a man". Though in fairness to her there was a lot less understanding of trans* issues back then.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Kugai on 09 Jan 2016, 13:12
Global Moderator Comment Morituri, I think that that type of discussion has been done to death in other locations and unless anyone has any useful new contributions, the matter should be considered done and dusted.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jan 2016, 13:45
Global Moderator Comment For anyone who is rolling their eyes wondering what we're talking about, current policy was the result of hearing from multiple forum members from trans backgrounds and especially from some with a proven record of not sweating the small stuff. The older cartoons are not a safe guide to how to talk about trans* people. That said, the moderators will have a sense of proportion about accidents by people who simply haven't yet absorbed all the information about trans etiquette.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Oenone on 10 Jan 2016, 20:32
That's true -- Claire has never known Fayeten to be an actual possibility, since by the time she met Marten Marten and Faye had already started dating other people.

Also I think Faye is in a way better place -- she's in group to talk about her alcoholism, she's got a job she likes... Maybe Faye can be less territorial because she's got less to lose if Marten gets close to another girl.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: mustang6172 on 10 Jan 2016, 22:02
Dora should have known better than to say "used to be a man". Though in fairness to her there was a lot less understanding of trans* issues back then.

Let me put a logical pin in this once and for all.

Dora's hypothetical alter-ego is not trans.
Dora's hypothetical alter-ego used the phrase "used to be a man."
A trans person would not use the phrase "used to be a man."
Therefore, Dora's hypothetical alter-ego is not trans. QED

Canon preserved.  Movin' on!
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Gladstone on 10 Jan 2016, 22:58
Definitely should've let this discussion stay buried.

Anyway, the time-skip presumably means that most of Faye's troubles are behind her--she's several months' sober and doing pretty well at her job, best buds with Bubbles, etc.--so I hope we get to focus on someone else now.  It would be a great time to bring Claire back to the foreground.  Not Claire and Marten, of course (do we need another hundred strips right now of them being cute together?  Nah...), but just Claire by herself.  She's apparently not interning at the library anymore, which is nice, because there were only so many more times did she could clash with Tai before it got old.  So, what now?  Is she still on track to her career goals?  Did her internship change anything? A lot of the questions I brought up (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30504.msg1305544.html#msg1305544) in my original post still stand, I think.  Well, mostly.  Claire seems to be fairly well established as an important QC character, but she hasn't had much of a role lately beyond being Marten's Girlfriend.  It would be nice if we got more of a glimpse into Claire's life (family/social/etc.) outside of her relationship with Marten. 
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Undrneath on 11 Jan 2016, 08:18
I also would like some new character development for Claire. I would assume that being a TA is a step in her chosen career path towards librarianship.
Title: Re: God Himself Could Not Sink This Ship: Thoughts on Marten, Claire, and the Future
Post by: Zebediah on 11 Jan 2016, 08:37
Being a TA is one of those things you have to do in graduate school, which is a step towards her career goal, so yeah.