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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 01 Mar 2015, 06:44

Title: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 01 Mar 2015, 06:44
Another month has began and, I would say, a little bit more clarity of where we stand with respect to many characters. However, as always, we must ask: Where from here?

The more I think about it, the more I think that Jeph is definitely setting us up for Faye's experiences at the support group. Will Sven be there? I'd say 'no' as he has never struck me as a substance abuser (sex addict, on the other hand, would be plausible). However, I do think that someone she knows will be there, although it may not be a primary character. I suppose it could be Tai if that throw away comment to Marten about 'cutting down on my pot intake' was more seriously than it at first seemed.

There are alternatives, of course. We could go back to the Library to catch up with Claire and Marten. We could visit The Secret Bakery and see how Jimeronica is doing. Or we could go to CoD to see how the shop's dynamic is doing with Faye removed from the equation.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 01 Mar 2015, 06:49
I think it would be more likely to see Steve there. We haven't seen much of him in a while. He was at the lakehouse party... and Marten dropped in after the one-night stand... but we don't really know what's going on in his life.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Nepiophage on 01 Mar 2015, 07:20
I think we'll definitely see Faye at the support group, alternating with another arc -- my guess is Clinton and Emily because the weirdness would balance the seriousness.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 01 Mar 2015, 12:52
I'm gonna go left field here


Nat
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Mar 2015, 13:00
Jeph did say she's gone forever, but he could change his mind.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Mar 2015, 13:06
Nat's been written out of the strip, according to this (http://jephjacques.com/post/11265563239/qa-dump-09). 

Further left field: Angus.  Turns out he was lying about the auditions, and all his trips to the city were for drug- and booze-filled binges.  He was just incredibly good at hiding his problems from Faye, and too proud/stubborn to ask for help (and she never picked up on his hints, when he invited her to go with him).  Turns out their last conversation together also sent him spiraling out of control, and now that he's hit rock bottom he's at last decided he needs to get help.  He doesn't even remember posting the ad about the chickens.

Yeah, I know, terrible idea.  That's why I voted for Sven.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Mar 2015, 13:11
Well, Marten does seem to be happy at the moment. Who knows, the allosaurus may cough up Ellen and Sara as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 01 Mar 2015, 13:13
I think we'll definitely see Faye at the support group, alternating with another arc -- my guess is Clinton and Emily because the weirdness would balance the seriousness.

There could be enough weirdness in the group to balance the seriousness, though I'm not sure Jeph would play it that way (I'd add, though, that there are plenty of ways to find/see the humor in that situation without being hurtful about it).

Speaking of which, I think if we see someone Faye recognizes, it's not likely to be a member of the main cast. Either someone we haven't heard from in a while (like Ellen, for instance*) or the Bros.

*Not that Ellen has any canonical substance abuse issues... just using her as an example, especially since a few of the others are either dead(-ish) like Nat and Sara, or would be enough of a stretch to strain credulity (like Padma or Angus -- basically, "We're taking you off the bus and sending you to therapy").

Edit: semi-ninja'd by Gladstone re: Angus. That's about the only plausible way I could see him re-entering the strip (and it'd certainly put his anger at Faye's alcohol use in a much different light).

Further edit: and ninja'd by Cesium. Lemme hit "post" again and see who else beats me to what else. :)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 01 Mar 2015, 13:25
I would like to see Sven, I enjoy him as a character. And, up until his most recent appearance, I'd enjoyed his character growth arc. I'm not interested in seeing him backtrack on character growth and pursue Faye as an entitled douchbro.

I would also be interested in seeing how Dora is doing and how things are at COD.

catching up with May would be interesting too.

Is it just me, or is Hanners much more of a literal cartoon than she used to be? I mean, even the way she is drawn compared to the other characters? I miss when she had more substance to her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 01 Mar 2015, 13:32
I would like to see Sven, I enjoy him as a character. And, up until his most recent appearance, I'd enjoyed his character growth arc. I'm not interested in seeing him backtrack on character growth and pursue Faye as an entitled douchbro.

Is it just me, or is Hanners much more of a literal cartoon than she used to be? I mean, even the way she is drawn compared to the other characters? I miss when she had more substance to her.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so (on both counts).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Mar 2015, 15:51
Meh, everyone's become a cartoon lately.  I remember when Claire was more than just OMG KYOOOOT.  I miss gawky, punny Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 01 Mar 2015, 16:07
I think the cartoonish characterization may be reflective of Jeph's state of mind, since it does seem across-the-board. I'm not too sure about what manner that relation holds, though.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 01 Mar 2015, 16:36
idk, Hanners and Faye are both in the strip, yet Faye doesn't look as cartoony as Hanners does. I wouldn't necessarily mind a cartoony look across the board, but it just seems to be Hanners, and occasionally Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Natswash on 01 Mar 2015, 17:49
Faye continues her job search?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 01 Mar 2015, 18:55
I vote no familiar faces at support group, both because it's kind of expected, and because there's been so much talk about it here on the forums. We may be a while before we even get to the meeting; I'm guessing today is Monday rather than Wednesday.

Of late the strip has been the Faye, Hanners, Marten and Claire Show (with Dora cameos). Wouldn't hurt to check in on somebody else. Or, we could see how COD is when regulars come in and there's no Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: celticgeek on 01 Mar 2015, 19:13
Faye could easily flip a table or two.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Mar 2015, 19:18
I vote no familiar faces at support group, both because it's kind of expected, and because there's been so much talk about it here on the forums. We may be a while before we even get to the meeting; I'm guessing today is Monday rather than Wednesday.

It's Tuesday.  I hope that doesn't clash with April's timeline...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Mar 2015, 19:40
There's Marten, always with the good, practical advice.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 01 Mar 2015, 19:52
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Mar 2015, 20:30
"I'm sorry Faye, we're strictly non-religious here. You'll have to re-enact Jesus in the temple somewhere else."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: AprilArcus on 01 Mar 2015, 20:35
It's Tuesday.  I hope that doesn't clash with April's timeline...

Clashes so hard :-P
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Mar 2015, 20:35
"I'm sorry Faye, we're strictly non-religious here. You'll have to re-enact Jesus in the temple somewhere else."

"I'm not!  I'm re-enacting Amber from Dumbing of Age (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/promised/) re-enacting Jesus in the temple!  It's meta!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Isyrion on 01 Mar 2015, 20:39
*facepalm* Marten, don't tell her to flip tables she will do it. 

Anyways I'm glad Faye has joined a support group.  Hopefully she will also find a creative outlet for her issues as well (sculpting).  Hopefully we see more positive developments in the comic after several WTF and Holy Shit moments.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Mar 2015, 21:22
Marten knew just the right thing to say.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 01 Mar 2015, 21:36
Faye could easily flip a table or two.


You got to flip a table or two boys, got to flip a table or twooooooo

:-D
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 01 Mar 2015, 22:00
Besides, if you feel nervous about it Faye then you should just do what you normally do when you're stressed out... wait a tic... no... not that
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Mar 2015, 22:56
Quote from: not the actual lyrics
It's not too late
To flip it
Well, flip it good
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 01 Mar 2015, 23:23
Marten knows Faye well enough to know that she was just looking for an excuse not to go. Fortunately, that familiarity also gifts him with the knowledge needed to reason around her objections in a way she can't dispute! Of course, as Jeph points out in the title of the strip, this would be a peaceful dissention on her part!

Y'now, I've got the feeling that Faye is drinking coffee so she doesn't have the need to drink alcohol. I wonder how long it will be before she's so wired that she's standing on the ceiling?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Akima on 01 Mar 2015, 23:54
If table-flipping were an Olympic sport, Faye would be a likely medal winner.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Mar 2015, 23:55
I vote no familiar faces at support group, both because it's kind of expected, and because there's been so much talk about it here on the forums.

I don't expect to see the support group at all, but to go straight to her reporting her reaction to it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 00:35
But that would involve Jeph passing up a chance to introduce new characters.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 02 Mar 2015, 00:41
Don't we have enough already? 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 02 Mar 2015, 00:43
Maybe he'll just have some celebrity cameos, or characters from other webcomics, among the support group members.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: NyxDarkness on 02 Mar 2015, 00:51
I think that out of all characters so far, Steve would be a likely candidate to meet in the support group. If I'm not mistaken, the last time we saw Steve, he was drinking VERY heavily.

Or, for the sake of drama, it could be Sven, not because of substance abuse, but maybe to pick up scarred, vulnerable ladies and make with the sexy times.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 02 Mar 2015, 01:29
I hope it's not Steve. I like Steve.

I hope even more so it's not Sven, because I can't stand Sven and have the feeling that at this low an ebb, Faye might end up sleeping with him.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: McH on 02 Mar 2015, 02:31
I think it'd be a tad cliche to include someone familiar in the support group, but if it were, it would be someone unexpected. Someone with unknown problems in the past who has already overcome them but is still in the support group anyway. Have we seen Jim or Wil drink?

But, as I said, I hope not.. I'm kind of hoping Jeff will keep the support group members anonymous visually (shades! silhouettes!) and focus on Faye's experience in the support group. Faye, sitting in listening to another member talk and getting hit with self-reflection and identification..  Faye telling us of her emotional struggles with Angus leaving and maybe confronting her own crushed ambitions which lead to that in the mean time. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Mar 2015, 02:40
Maybe the familiar face won't be a fellow group member but the moderator? Maybe a familiar face to us, if not necessarily Faye.

Claire's mother maybe? Working in a group like that sounds right for her pushy but generally nice personality. If you spent your working life helping people with serious denial issues, you probably would tend to push the boundaries of your children's lives too, if you thought they were repressing or denying something.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Consilium on 02 Mar 2015, 02:55
I think the real issue here is that It's Always Taco Night Somewhere.

If I'm not mistaken, the last time we saw Steve, he was drinking VERY heavily.

Last time we saw Steve, he was eating cereal, yeah?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Lubricus on 02 Mar 2015, 03:28
Interesting faces to throw into the support group:
Harriet (Sweet Tits)?
Amir?
Tortura?
Pizza Girl?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Mar 2015, 06:23
Maybe the support group is where we meet Claire's dad.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 02 Mar 2015, 06:35
I think the real issue here is that It's Always Taco Night Somewhere.

If I'm not mistaken, the last time we saw Steve, he was drinking VERY heavily.

Last time we saw Steve, he was eating cereal, yeah?  :mrgreen:

Yabbut was it explicitly stated that was milk on the cereal?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Mar 2015, 06:39
Rice krispies with beer. Snap Crackle and Burp.

(Joke stolen from M*A*S*H)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TinPenguin on 02 Mar 2015, 06:50
Maybe the support group is where we meet Claire's dad.

Nope.

Faye's dad.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 02 Mar 2015, 07:01
Maybe the support group is where we meet Claire's dad.

Nope.

Faye's dad.

I want to make a joke about that being mind-blowing, but uh... yeah, that might be a bit inappropriate
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 02 Mar 2015, 07:02
Maybe the support group is where we meet Claire's dad.

Nope.

Faye's dad.
So then if I get what you're saying, Faye didn't survive her brush with death, and this is how she figures out she's actually dead?  :psyduck:

On a slightly more serious note, the idea of Claire's mom being the moderator of the group makes sense. It would also give some backstory to Claire's history with group therapy: perhaps it was her mom's idea for her to start going to it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 02 Mar 2015, 07:11
Could even be that Clairemom went into her own spiral after Clairedad cheated on her, recovered, and then decided to run the group to help people out?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 02 Mar 2015, 07:12
Guest appearances make sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Billie and Ruthless from Dumbing of Age in the group...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 02 Mar 2015, 07:15
Definitely feel like it's going to be Claire's mom.

This support group thing will likely be a chance for Jeph to introduce new characters, but from a literary standpoint, it would be neater to tie the characters together in ways they aren't actually aware of. Like the head of Faye's support group to be the mother of her roommate's  girlfriend.

I think if it were Steve, or anyone Faye recognized, she wouldn't get as much out of the group as she might otherwise
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 02 Mar 2015, 08:06
Y'now, I've got the feeling that Faye is drinking coffee so she doesn't have the need to drink alcohol. I wonder how long it will be before she's so wired that she's standing on the ceiling?

That's a myth. I've been there, my sis has been there, my mom and dad have been there. It just doesn't happen.

On "Familiar Faces running the group", I can't help but remember Meena's fiancé. You know, literal mr. Perfect?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 02 Mar 2015, 08:57
Guest appearances make sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Billie and Ruthless from Dumbing of Age in the group...

T-Rex and Utahraptor. They have this friend, see, who is addicted to eating baristas ...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 02 Mar 2015, 10:37
Remember guys, the ad says 18-30.  That suggests no "grownups" (Clairemom, Jimbo, Jim, etc) will attend, full stop. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Skewbrow on 02 Mar 2015, 10:48
Hmm. Who will Faye meet there? ClaireMom would be easy to write in, but Faye would see the family resemblance I think?
Delilah as a fellow support group member? Some potential for hilarity, but may be not at par with ClaireMom.

Anyway, Faye will not enjoy it. She will either flip a table or a bird and storm out.

Who else haven't we seen for a longish time? The rest of the Secret Bakery staff! Renee the doppelganger meeting with Faye could lead to an interesting exchange between Angus' exes. Also, Elliot and Hanners were soooo cute awkward together (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1930).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Mar 2015, 11:01
Elliot was the one guy I ever shipped with Hannelore. Alas, it was not to be.

Remember guys, the ad says 18-30.  That suggests no "grownups" (Clairemom, Jimbo, Jim, etc) will attend, full stop. 

Ah. I guess no Claudius then. [headcanon]Yes, that is Claire's dad. His name is Claudius. Claudius Tiberius Augustus.[/headcanon] Besides, he would have been in the creeps group anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 02 Mar 2015, 11:26
I think that out of all characters so far, Steve would be a likely candidate to meet in the support group. If I'm not mistaken, the last time we saw Steve, he was drinking VERY heavily

I think the last time we saw Steve it was at the bar on the Night of the Scritch. The only times he gets really drunk as far as the comic has shown is after a break up, and since there's been no further drama at the CoD regarding Cosette there's not going to be an issue on that part.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 02 Mar 2015, 11:57
You know, there is one character who would probably be at the support group - Penelope. 

Penelope is the only confirmed teetotaler in the entire series.  It's never been established why she doesn't drink.  I'm presuming that she had a bad family history with alcohol, even if not a personal history with it. 

Given the past tension between Penelope and Faye, I can't think of anyone that Faye would less like to see (minus maybe Dora) if she showed up there.  That to me suggests it very well might happen.   :-D

That said, Penelope was actually helpful with Faye in the past when she was trying to get in better shape.  While they're not exactly friends, it might help to have her in more of a "big sister" role again. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 02 Mar 2015, 12:12
Ah. I guess no Claudius then. [headcanon]Yes, that is Claire's dad. His name is Claudius. Claudius Tiberius Augustus.[/headcanon] Besides, he would have been in the creeps group anyway.





HAIL THEASER!!!!!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 02 Mar 2015, 12:27
You know, there is one character who would probably be at the support group  Penelope. 

Penelope is the only confirmed teetotaler in the entire series.  It's never been established why she doesn't drink.  I'm presuming that she had a bad family history with alcohol, even if not a personal history with it. 

Given the past tension between Penelope and Faye, I can't think of anyone that Faye would less like to see (minus maybe Dora) if she showed up there).  That to me suggests it very well might happen.   :-D

That said, Penelope was actually helpful with Faye in the past when she was trying to get in better shape.  While they're not exactly friends, it might help to have her in more of a "big sister" role again.

Yeah, Penelope plopped in my mind, too. I still don't like the somewhat forced support group storyline, but am cautiously curious ;)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 02 Mar 2015, 12:29
I think it'll work best if there's actually no familiar faces there except for one possibility.

What if the person running it is Faye's therapist?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 02 Mar 2015, 13:04
I think it'll work best if there's actually no familiar faces there except for one possibility.

What if the person running it is Faye's therapist?

This seems more likely than any of the possibilities so far.

We know already we'll be seeing Dr. Corrine again soon, but I thought it would be after the support group. I think you're right about it being best if Faye doesn't recognize anybody, but that's why I was hoping for Clairemom. WE know who she is, but Faye's never met her.

I'd still like Clairemom to lead the group, but it's more likely a trained therapist would be in charge.

Then again, do we know what Clairemom does for a living?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 02 Mar 2015, 13:19
Quote from: not the actual lyrics
It's not too late
To flip it
Well, flip it good

If the support group is full of people wearing flower pots, then I fully support full on table flipping. Flipped real good.

As for the ongoing 'who will be there' conversation, I vote for the BOOORING suggestion that we will will see no familiar faces there.

Well, except for:

I think we'll definitely see Faye at the support group

Yep, agreed. So, one familiar face.

(nb: the above quote was written in the context of "which arc will we see", rather than "who will we see at the support group", but it amused my small mind to quote it in the wrong context) :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 02 Mar 2015, 16:39
I think it'll work best if there's actually no familiar faces there except for one possibility.

What if the person running it is Faye's therapist?

This seems more likely than any of the possibilities so far.

We know already we'll be seeing Dr. Corrine again soon

Do we though? Faye told Claire she had to find a -new- therapist, which I would take to mean we won't see Dr. Corrine again, or at least not in that role.
I has teh dumbs.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 16:44
? I thought it was find a new job and go back to therapy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 02 Mar 2015, 16:45
Also, Elliot and Hanners were soooo cute awkward together (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1930).
Oh Gods above, everything I see that strip I get flashbacks to my very first date, ('cept if you include this one, (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1925) Elliot and Hanners said more words to each other).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 02 Mar 2015, 16:45
Do we though? Faye told Claire she had to find a -new- therapist, which I would take to mean we won't see Dr. Corrine again, or at least not in that role.

Why is that? did Faye have a falling out with Dr. Corrine? I dont remember anything in the comic about it.

I guess you could argue that Dr. Corrine's approach didn't really seem to resonate with Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 02 Mar 2015, 17:09

Do we though? Faye told Claire she had to find a -new- therapist, which I would take to mean we won't see Dr. Corrine again, or at least not in that role.
I think the only thing we heard about it was Faye's 'start goin' to fuckin' therapy again', which I thought meant that she would be going back to Dr. Corrine. She's been effective in the past, and I think Faye likes her and her no-nonsense style of therapy. She's been taking her  advice, too. I think she just stopped going because it's expensive and she thought she didn't need that much it any more.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: DonInKansas on 02 Mar 2015, 17:21
I think the real issue here is that It's Always Taco Night Somewhere.


Indeed.  You learn something every day.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 18:02
It is a horrible thought to realize that "fuckin' therapy" is what she was getting from Sven.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 02 Mar 2015, 18:39
Mmm, bread-fucked...

But yeah, maybe it's time Pintsize upgraded to a new chassis.  Once that can't be switched off so easily, and can interact with people on an ordinary, less prankish, level.  Or he could just be a toaster.  It's all good.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 02 Mar 2015, 18:40
argh, the proportions in the first panel!!!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 18:46
Faye's record of getting along with toasters is undistinguished.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 02 Mar 2015, 18:48
Pintsize should be careful with being a toaster around Faye, considering her history with toasters...

Edit ... sniped...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: K1dmor on 02 Mar 2015, 18:48
 (http://i.imgur.com/a2k2aUZ.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 02 Mar 2015, 18:49
argh, the proportions in the first panel!!!  :psyduck:

They look fine to me, Faye's just hunched over.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 02 Mar 2015, 18:59
Do we though? Faye told Claire she had to find a -new- therapist, which I would take to mean we won't see Dr. Corrine again, or at least not in that role.

Why is that? did Faye have a falling out with Dr. Corrine? I dont remember anything in the comic about it.

I guess you could argue that Dr. Corrine's approach didn't really seem to resonate with Faye.

Do we though? Faye told Claire she had to find a -new- therapist, which I would take to mean we won't see Dr. Corrine again, or at least not in that role.
I think the only thing we heard about it was Faye's 'start goin' to fuckin' therapy again', which I thought meant that she would be going back to Dr. Corrine. She's been effective in the past, and I think Faye likes her and her no-nonsense style of therapy. She's been taking her  advice, too. I think she just stopped going because it's expensive and she thought she didn't need that much it any more.
? I thought it was find a new job and go back to therapy.

Go go memory fail! I apparently remembered the 'new' being in front of the therapist bit rather than before the job bit. I'm just gonna blame the closed head injury for that  :psyduck:

In other news, at least we have definitive proof of what happened to Pint size that day.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 02 Mar 2015, 19:01
argh, the proportions in the first panel!!!  :psyduck:

They look fine to me, Faye's just hunched over.

She's just slouched into the corner of the sofa.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 02 Mar 2015, 19:11
Yeah, I get that it is the perspective, and that it would be possible to get that kind of distortion in a photograph with those angles.... but... but... butt...... Faye has a bobble head! and T-Rex arms!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 02 Mar 2015, 19:18
Doesn't seem like the old Pintsize, either caring what Marten will "allow," or pulling his punches with Faye because she seems vulnerable. One of those head-denting sessions must have knocked a screw loose.

I wonder if assaulting an anthro-pc is considered a criminal act. Involuntarily switching off seems like a form of assault. Could Pintsize have Faye up on charges? Would anyone take them seriously, or is all this talk of AI civil rights just talk? (Assuming the singularity comes and real AI's start being part of human society, these are questions that will come up.)

Warning - while you were typing a more worthy string of text has been posted. Are you really going to expose actual humans to that crap you typed? Seriously?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 02 Mar 2015, 19:19
Yeah, I get that it is the perspective, and that it would be possible to get that kind of distortion in a photograph with those angles.... but... but... butt...... Faye has a bobble head! and T-Rex arms!
The upper arm is a tad short. But hey, it's a comic; if you want questionable body proportions, try the first few hundred strips.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 02 Mar 2015, 19:53
The Singularity -has- come, and AIs -are- part of human society. Many hold down human type jobs, for starters.

IIRC, civil rights are for AIs who agree to accept the corresponding responsibilities. Which lets out Pintsize and his buddies. You can mess with them, because they are free to mess with you.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 02 Mar 2015, 19:57
Huh. Pintsize may be going a little stir-crazy. Guy needs to get out a bit more... or maybe throw an Arbor Day party.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 21:03
Jeph said they don't feel pain like we do. Whether that should affect the law is a large question.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 02 Mar 2015, 21:03
Can't be an expy of intolerance, can't be the expy of crass realization humor, Jeph doesn't like Pintsize anymore. He's being written out. Poor guy. throw aside like that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 02 Mar 2015, 21:10
Can't be an expy of intolerance, can't be the expy of crass realization humor, Jeph doesn't like Pintsize anymore. He's being written out. Poor guy. throw aside like that.

Noo not Pintsize!! he's in the first comic! He's the almost-main-character! I hope he's not written out :( I love the li'l guy!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 02 Mar 2015, 21:12
The Singularity -has- come, and AIs -are- part of human society. Many hold down human type jobs, for starters.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant when/if singularity comes to our Earth, not the QC one.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 02 Mar 2015, 21:21
Can't be an expy of intolerance, can't be the expy of crass realization humor, Jeph doesn't like Pintsize anymore. He's being written out. Poor guy. throw aside like that.

I can't recall Pintsize ever being an expy of intolerance in the first place.  His first encounter with Claire began with an invitation to make out (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2456) and ended with a paddlin' (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2459'), and I cannot any of their future interactions deviating from that.  At least, I can't imagine him ever making fun of Claire for being trans.  Crass sexual humor completely unrelated to her trans status, perhaps, but anything transphobic?  Nah, Pintsize is crude, but he's not cruel, and would never dish out anything his target couldn't take.  Claire's tough; she could handle him.  Marten was really overreacting with that LOOOM of his.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 02 Mar 2015, 21:27
Pintsize is an equal opportunity offender. And if sex jokes are considered wrong then I don't wanna be right.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 02 Mar 2015, 21:35
Jeph said they don't feel pain like we do. Whether that should affect the law is a large question.

I dunno, even if I *were* an AI (or possibly cyborg) who could turn off pain receptors at a whim, I'd think that being randomly assaulted as rather traumatic.  Even if there's no fear of physical pain, the idea of having one's conciousness disabled, and treated like a toy is rather frightening.  Note Momo's shocking Clinton, or the implied threat of her doing the same to Emily.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 02 Mar 2015, 22:04
Jeph said they don't feel pain like we do.

If you program a robot to feel pain all they do is complain about it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 02 Mar 2015, 22:13
Can't be an expy of intolerance, can't be the expy of crass realization humor, Jeph doesn't like Pintsize anymore. He's being written out. Poor guy. throw aside like that.

Noo not Pintsize!! he's in the first comic! He's the almost-main-character! I hope he's not written out :( I love the li'l guy!

I just came off this strip as that Jeph has pretty much written off Pintsize and won't use him anymore to provide crass humor, or hell, just a moment of clarity/zen (can it even be considered that sometimes?) in the drama of the comic. The Transgender/Leer Strip gripe is below; to Faye's Alcoholism now.....

With perhaps exceptions to upgrades and repairs, I think the only other time Pintsize has been turned off was when Marten & Padma had sex. Maybe for just cause, but still, you think if Pintsize was on while Faye was drinking like a sailor, Pintsize would've called Marten or even the Emergency Services to help Faye much quicker? If Pintsize was on, maybe at this point he could've at least reminded Faye that by turning him off, he could've helped her get help in some way by contacting someone, even if he had to do it as an emergency measure.

Nope, we get him grumbling how he's being treated like a Scum Class citizen. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpCzp0CmjY)

Crass sexual humor completely unrelated to her trans status, perhaps, but anything transphobic?

More on the former than the latter. Pintsize shows some lewd pic that offends/sickens Claire (but most certainly nothing transphobic, just something in bad taste in general), Marten has to come in and reprimand Pintsize to don't do that to Claire. Nothing outlandish, just something that could be a learning point, like how Pintsize can go too far even though the cast has tolerated his antics. Hell, in that context, it doesn't have to be trans-related, just some incident that can be applied in general to many things.

Instead, we got "The Leer" Deus Ex Machina strip and everything is wrapped up nice and super. *shakes head*
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2015, 22:21
"Deus ex machina" is a funny phrase when Pintsize is around.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ZoeB on 02 Mar 2015, 22:59
No harm done to Pintsize - whew. I was concerned. Maybe he's growing too.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 02 Mar 2015, 23:02
"Deus ex machina" is a funny phrase when Pintsize is around.

I felt Jeph could've done a bit more with that one instead of having Marten as the Deus.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 02 Mar 2015, 23:04
In my experience, therapists don't like to lead the group therapy sessions their clients are in.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Mar 2015, 23:05
It ain't easy being Pintsize, or so it seems! Maybe he should talk to Marten about this? He is his friend, after all! If he needs to be antisocial on a regular basis, I'm sure that Marten can find someone who will indulge him!

BTW: I loved Faye's nonplussed expression in panel 3. It's the realisation that she doesn't get the little guy at all!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 02 Mar 2015, 23:38
Crass sexual humor completely unrelated to her trans status, perhaps, but anything transphobic?

More on the former than the latter. Pintsize shows some lewd pic that offends/sickens Claire (but most certainly nothing transphobic, just something in bad taste in general), Marten has to come in and reprimand Pintsize to don't do that to Claire. Nothing outlandish, just something that could be a learning point, like how Pintsize can go too far even though the cast has tolerated his antics. Hell, in that context, it doesn't have to be trans-related, just some incident that can be applied in general to many things.

Or Claire sticks up for herself, lets Pintsize know he's gone too far, throws him against the wall, etc.  No need for anyone to protect her, she can take care of herself.  Or they develop their own relationship (I came up with a little dialogue here (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30458.msg1302706.html#msg1302706) that I thought worked better than the LOOM strip, but I'm obviously biased), something full of friendly banter and subtle jabs, with Claire giving as good as she gets, until she makes a pun so terrible it renders Pintsize speechless. 

Heck, I like that idea so much I'm going to say it again: Claire makes a pun so terrible it renders Pintsize speechless.

And now I'm sad it'll never happen.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 02 Mar 2015, 23:47
Subplot: Pintsize grows more and more irritated over feeling restrained in his actions that he expresses his distaste for the present dynamic... by planning the most extravagant shenanigans yet fathomed. Secret bellybutton lasers notwithstanding.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 02 Mar 2015, 23:54
I'm reading Pintsize as "FUCK EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU I'M MOVING TO MEXICO".

On the "that could be arranged" part, I wonder if Faye is willing to turn him into a toaster...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 03 Mar 2015, 00:03
Pintsize should talk to Emily (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2283) more, they can share their toaster love' desire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Akima on 03 Mar 2015, 00:20
Faye's record of getting along with toasters is undistinguished.
Fortunately it was not unextinguished.

When Pintsize expressed a desire to be a toaster, I imagined a single red eye sweeping back and forth. He'd look very odd in a red minidress and heels though.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 03 Mar 2015, 00:27
Pintsize should talk to Emily (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2283) more, they can share their toaster love' desire.

On a similar vein, I think Claire should be talking to Momo more about gender identity. One went thru a gender change, the other changed chassis from a glorified Nendoroid to an Andriod and had to learn some new things in the process. Thinking those could be related somehow.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Mar 2015, 00:38
Faye's record of getting along with toasters is undistinguished.
Fortunately it was not unextinguished.

When Pintsize expressed a desire to be a toaster, I imagined a single red eye sweeping back and forth. He'd look very odd in a red minidress and heels though.

Given his preledictions in humour, we're probably safe, since he'd probably demand to be a number 2, rather than a six.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Mar 2015, 01:12
I've long suspected that Pintsize's off-colour humour, sexual harassment and apparent enabling of substance abuse is all just how he does his job of being Marten (and, increasingly, Faye's) friend, adviser, companion and, to a certain extent, keeper. He has found that his antisocial behaviour is the best way to motivate Marten to get out of his passive rut. He's also found that Faye will aggressively resist people telling her to not do something but that you can moderate her behaviour by walking the path beside her and listening to her vent.

I strongly suspect that the latter was his plan when Faye came home after being fired from CoD but she was so determined to seek oblivion (and possibly death, at least on a subconscious level), she shut him down to stop him from interfering. I also suspect that he was planning to use mockery to force Faye to admit to herself that her behaviour had been inappropriate, self-destructive and, fundamentally, not what she wanted.

The problem Pintsize is having in today's strip is that it looks like Marten and Faye have moved beyond their previous personality paradigms. Marten has found a girl who is important enough to him that he doesn't need Pintsize to motivate him to be active in his relationship with her. Similarly, Faye has been sufficiently shaken by what happened to her that she is making a strong effort to change herself (hence the title of strip 2889 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2889)). Maybe he isn't needed anymore?

If I'm right, we may see this week a strip or two of Pintsize talking to Winslow about how to continue to help your charge when they are making real progress in changing their lives. After all, Hannelore is the most radically changed of all the characters in terms of how far she has made progress in facing her demons. Winslow probably has had to make lots of changes to how he carries out his duties to her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: katsmeat on 03 Mar 2015, 03:54
Thanks for that, Pintsize. The little 'I make bread fun' guy has just gone from very cute to very creepy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Honkytonk on 03 Mar 2015, 05:15
I'm well chuffed Jeph has done this strip - I was worried as to what Pintsize's thoughts would be on the whole turning off incident - the AI's in the QCverse would surely see such an act as wrong, even when they're Pintsize.

It does also make you wonder what Pintsize will put his efforts into now he can't make comments about Faye or Claire.

Perhaps he will try to ferment revolution amongst the sentient toasters.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: slydon on 03 Mar 2015, 05:36
Poor censored Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Mar 2015, 06:21
I guess trying to find out how much porn there is on the internet (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2331) wasn't as fulfilling as he'd hoped.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Nepiophage on 03 Mar 2015, 07:13
This reminds me of a cartoon I saw once but have not been able to find since:

TOASTER: I want you inside me.
BREAD: You make me hot.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 03 Mar 2015, 07:55
You know, it does sort of make me sad that Jeph didn't ever do the one thing with Pintsize which would make things really interesting - find a character who is completely unphased by his crass humor, and can actually up the ante on him.  Every character I can think of has basically reacted in horror to Pintsize at one point or another.  It would be great to see his reaction if someone actually took the bait.  He might be left speechless. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 03 Mar 2015, 08:36
I'm reading Pintsize as "FUCK EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU I'M MOVING TO MEXICO".

On the "that could be arranged" part, I wonder if Faye is willing to turn him into a toaster...

I read it as the equivalent of a petulant child shouting "I wish I'd never been born!" When things don't go the way they think they should.

This reminds me of a cartoon I saw once but have not been able to find since:

TOASTER: I want you inside me.
BREAD: You make me hot.

(http://fast-images.picyou.com/images/EzWd2M/EzWd2M.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Mar 2015, 08:36
Slight spoiler from Jeph's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/572796117613748226)!

Either Jeph is trolling or Strip 2909 is going to be longer than usual (normally, I'd say the maximum number of panels is eight). What will happen I wonder?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 03 Mar 2015, 08:38
"The same thing that happens every night, Pinky. We try to take over the world Butts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Mar 2015, 09:10
Pintsize should talk to Emily (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2283) more, they can share their toaster love' desire.

On a similar vein, I think Claire should be talking to Momo more about gender identity. One went thru a gender change, the other changed chassis from a glorified Nendoroid to an Andriod and had to learn some new things in the process. Thinking those could be related somehow.

Momo could be trusted with a secret. They may indeed have something in common. Momo's chassis upgrade was strongly motivated. Was it full-fledged body dysphoria as opposed to wanting to be treated with dignity? If not, that opens the door for an instructive compare-and-contrast conversation with Claire.

Pintsize -- Pintsize is growing up. "Dragons live forever, but not so little boys". If he couldn't learn and grow, he wouldn't be genuinely intelligent.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Mar 2015, 09:47
You know, it does sort of make me sad that Jeph didn't ever do the one thing with Pintsize which would make things really interesting - find a character who is completely unphased by his crass humor, and can actually up the ante on him.  Every character I can think of has basically reacted in horror to Pintsize at one point or another.  It would be great to see his reaction if someone actually took the bait.  He might be left speechless.

Pintsize has not yet met May. I suspect she could match him crude joke for crude joke.

This would inevitably end with the two of them on the sofa with a USB cable connecting the two of them, exchanging hot packets all night long (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=346).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Beroli on 03 Mar 2015, 09:49
On the "that could be arranged" part, I wonder if Faye is willing to turn him into a toaster...
She wouldn't need to turn him into a toaster to shove bread into him.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 03 Mar 2015, 10:04
Pintsize should talk to Emily (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2283) more, they can share their toaster love' desire.

On a similar vein, I think Claire should be talking to Momo more about gender identity. One went thru a gender change, the other changed chassis from a glorified Nendoroid to an Andriod and had to learn some new things in the process. Thinking those could be related somehow.

I wonder what they did do to Momo's old chassis to keep it out of pintsize's hands...

Slight spoiler from Jeph's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/572796117613748226)!

Either Jeph is trolling or Strip 2909 is going to be longer than usual (normally, I'd say the maximum number of panels is eight). What will happen I wonder?

I'm hoping for eight clairepuns  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 03 Mar 2015, 14:03
And now he'll embark on a terrible and protracted revenge
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 03 Mar 2015, 14:08
You know, it does sort of make me sad that Jeph didn't ever do the one thing with Pintsize which would make things really interesting - find a character who is completely unphased by his crass humor, and can actually up the ante on him.  Every character I can think of has basically reacted in horror to Pintsize at one point or another.  It would be great to see his reaction if someone actually took the bait.  He might be left speechless.

I think the closest we gotten to that....was Emily injuring her hand giving Pintsize a button mash hammering. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2340)

I guess trying to find out how much porn there is on the internet (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2331) wasn't as fulfilling as he'd hoped.

What was that quote I saw on Fetlife once......?

Quote
Just when I thought i've seen every porn imaginable, the Internet bitchslaps me with a shrubbery and introduces me to (Graphic Description of a type of Historical Pornography).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 03 Mar 2015, 16:43
I'm reading Pintsize as "FUCK EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU I'M MOVING TO MEXICO".

On the "that could be arranged" part, I wonder if Faye is willing to turn him into a toaster...

I read it as the equivalent of a petulant child shouting "I wish I'd never been born!" When things don't go the way they think they should.


That's what I was trying to channel basically.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 03 Mar 2015, 17:33
The phrase "unlimited breadsticks" won't leave my head and it's really weirding me out.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 03 Mar 2015, 17:47
(http://www.weeatsgood.com/grub/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/20091023_olive_garden_breadsticks.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 03 Mar 2015, 18:45
Comic's Up!

Never thought I'd be the one to say that~
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 03 Mar 2015, 18:46
Dora, try some scotch.  I hear it helps.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 03 Mar 2015, 18:47
Doraaaaaaaaaaa.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: mustang6172 on 03 Mar 2015, 18:49
Quote from: Dora
Not my fault.  They forced my hand.

Is it just me, or is that not something a sane person says?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 03 Mar 2015, 18:50
She had to do it to protect her secret identity, she may like Tai but the city needs her. Ever since Pizza Girl disappeared the streets have been patrolled by a masked protector called  Dord-a.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: AprilArcus on 03 Mar 2015, 18:50
Oh my gosh, yes! Dora in the spotlight, Sven still exists, relationship drama, everyone is in character!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 03 Mar 2015, 18:52
And now the Dora/Tai dramabomb drops. At least Dora did apparently previously tell Tai about Sven, and no dramabomb about firing Faye for drinking on the job, just pushing her away.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 03 Mar 2015, 19:10
And now the Dora/Tai dramabomb drops.

One thing that worries me, we haven't really seen a lot of Tai and Dora At Home lately, so this impending drama might not have the same impact it would have if we were given more regular glimpses into their lives together...but then, they've only been together three-ish months at this point, and no news is generally good news, so this may be a sign that the honeymoon is ending and they're about to face some actual hurdles.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 03 Mar 2015, 19:11
Well, everyone who's been complaining about to much Clairten squee and not enough drama... there is your bomb.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 03 Mar 2015, 19:16
Hopefully there isn't some Law of Conservation of Romance in the QCverse, and Claire and Marten can only be happy if they drain happiness from Dora and Tai.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 03 Mar 2015, 19:20
Could Dora be any further in denial? I don't think she's evil (let's not get that shitstorm started again, please and thank you), but what she's saying to Tai suggests that she thinks her own actions have nothing to do with her. There are any number of ways she could've dealt with either Sven or Faye (every bit as decisively, and without being a doormat), but she didn't choose any of the others. At some point, she will have to face up to her choices and their consequences.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: AprilArcus on 03 Mar 2015, 19:21
Between their first date, "D-don't be upset! Look, boobs! (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2404)", "That was a dissertation (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2584)", and "I have to tell Tai about this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2810)" think Dora & Tai's happy status quo has been sufficiently established.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 03 Mar 2015, 19:24
Dora & Tai's happy status quo has been sufficiently established.

Yeah, true.  For some reason the ear-cheese episode (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2553) was the first and only thing that came to mind.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 03 Mar 2015, 19:35
Could Dora be any further in denial?

I don't think denial is the right word.

Trying to just live with the things that bothered her didn't work, she kept losing her cool with Marten. Setting boundaries for Sven regarding the people around her didn't work, he's a grown man, he doesn't have to listen to her. So now she tries withdrawing from/pushing away the people who are upsetting her. From Dora's perspective that's a rational enough progression and it isn't as if she pushed Faye away forever. The door is still open.

Oh and by the way, thanks for the breadsticks photo, breadstick hentai is going to replace tentacle hentai as the stuff of my nightmares.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 03 Mar 2015, 19:36
Get your head outta your ass Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 03 Mar 2015, 19:38
Does anyone remember the comic, shortly after Tai and Dora started dating, where Dora was looking at men on her laptop? And looking guilty about it? Do you think that was foreshadowing trouble in their relationship?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 03 Mar 2015, 19:49
Without inviting any Dora bashing - and the girl herself is probably under her own sources of stress having to fire a close friend for alcohol related matters, having to replace that friend, having cut off her brother, and then being put on the spot/called out for things - I'm kind of proud of Tai for nipping this scenario in the bud by firmly setting a boundary like that.

I get Dora's frustration - "Would it kill you to open up?" isn't the best way to comfort someone into such opening - but snapping at your partner is still a little callous.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 03 Mar 2015, 19:54
Dora's not in denial or not facing up to the consequences of her actions, she's just drowning in guilt.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 03 Mar 2015, 19:56
Oh and by the way, thanks for the breadsticks photo, breadstick hentai is going to replace tentacle hentai as the stuff of my nightmares.
Did someone say Hentai?

(http://i.imgur.com/CUFxRLW.png)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 03 Mar 2015, 19:58
Oh and by the way, thanks for the breadsticks photo, breadstick hentai is going to replace tentacle hentai as the stuff of my nightmares.
Did someone say Hentai?
[snipped image]

That has to Tai for the most fowl pun I've ever heard...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 03 Mar 2015, 20:04
Alternatively:

(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac75/de-arimasu/Funny/hentai.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Isyrion on 03 Mar 2015, 20:04
Oh and by the way, thanks for the breadsticks photo, breadstick hentai is going to replace tentacle hentai as the stuff of my nightmares.
Did someone say Hentai?

(http://i.imgur.com/CUFxRLW.png)

Welp that's chicken and breadsticks corrupted.

Anyways about time someone called Dora out.  Dora is a nice person at heart but she needs some more counseling, before she screws up another good relationship she has.  Right now I don't see Faye and Dora making up right off, to much anger and issues on both sides right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 03 Mar 2015, 20:11
BEEP BOOP DORA-BOT FORMS DECISIONS BASED ON LOGIC
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SHOW CONCERN FOR DORA-BOT
INITIATING RELATIONSHIP SABOTAGE PROTOCOL
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Near Lurker on 03 Mar 2015, 20:14
Meh, everyone's become a cartoon lately.  I remember when Claire was more than just OMG KYOOOOT.  I miss gawky, punny Claire.

It's not Claire - somewhere between his breakup with Dora and Emily's party, Marten became this eldrich god of chill, and anyone he interacts with, about half the time, the whole situation just seems... off.  That extends to the other party, and most of the time lately, that party is Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 03 Mar 2015, 20:15
Alternatively:

(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac75/de-arimasu/Funny/hentai.jpg)

Yes... Since when does John Kovalic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kovalic) draw Hentai?

(http://www.japanator.com/elephant/ul/9274-Munchkin%20chicken.JPG)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 03 Mar 2015, 20:25
Could Dora be any further in denial?

I don't think denial is the right word.

Trying to just live with the things that bothered her didn't work, she kept losing her cool with Marten. Setting boundaries for Sven regarding the people around her didn't work, he's a grown man, he doesn't have to listen to her. So now she tries withdrawing from/pushing away the people who are upsetting her. From Dora's perspective that's a rational enough progression and it isn't as if she pushed Faye away forever. The door is still open.

Oh and by the way, thanks for the breadsticks photo, breadstick hentai is going to replace tentacle hentai as the stuff of my nightmares.

So what would you suggest as an alternative (he asked un-sarcastically)? Like I said, I don't think she should be a doormat, but I also don't think she's necessarily made the healthiest choices in terms of how she's dealt with people... like I said, I'm coming up short by way of nomenclature, but it seems disingenuous of her to represent those hasty choices as her only option.

Sorry 'bout the breadstick hentai. Here, scour your mind with some soothing naan:
(http://www.avocadobravado.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/naan.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Renimar on 03 Mar 2015, 20:38
You know, it does sort of make me sad that Jeph didn't ever do the one thing with Pintsize which would make things really interesting - find a character who is completely unphased by his crass humor, and can actually up the ante on him.  Every character I can think of has basically reacted in horror to Pintsize at one point or another.  It would be great to see his reaction if someone actually took the bait.  He might be left speechless.

Hasn't this already happened with Marten's mom in 1829 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1829)?  Granted, we don't see Pintsize's reaction to her reaction to get goatse'd.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 03 Mar 2015, 20:39
Mmm yummy Naan.

I don't know, but not denial. She's not pretending nothing happened, she's not refusing to acknowledge she made a choice, she's not even refusing to deal with problems. She's actively deciding that there are things she should not have to deal with. Specifically, other people's shit.

You've never walked away rather than get dragged down?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 03 Mar 2015, 20:40
With Dora, I think her continuingly pushing people who she feels undermine her authority is all tied into her control issues. Think about it. Sven seems to constantly cross the line where it comes to Dora and how she thinks he should behave. Faye crossed the line in regards to the employee-employer relationship, disrespecting the rules (and Dora) by her actions.

She feels out of control where it comes to them. However, by her actively pushing them away, it puts her in control of the situation in her mind, and forces -them- to come to -her- if they want to beg forgiveness from her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Mar 2015, 20:50
Dora completely ignored Tai's feelings and didn't even seem to realize they existed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 03 Mar 2015, 20:52
Count me in as someone who's glad to see a complication with Dora and Tai. And no, not because I hate happiness, or that I want nothing but drama, but narrative requires some form of conflict or complication, and we're picking up some dangling plot threads.

As far as Dora's attitude towards Sven and Faye are concerned, I haven't changed my mind. I think she went overboard with Sven, but have no problems with the way she handled the situation with Faye. To her point about her hand being forced, I think that's true of Faye, but not Sven. Faye messed up, and Dora was forced to make a tough decision. Not so much when it comes to Sven, though it doesn't help that his character was dumbed down a bit, seemingly to make a point about entitlement. A valid point mind you, but it did come at the expense of some established characteristics.

As for her reaction to Tai...I'm kind of in two minds. Dora obviously isn't handling her current situation well and snapping at Tai is her fault...mostly, sort of. I also think that Tai didn't exactly choose the best tact to broach the subject, pushing Dora's buttons in the process and inadvertently opening some fresh wounds. It's not necessarily a bad thing that she forced the issue, but that approach can backfire spectacularly. Dora wasn't right here, but she was provoked, albeit with good intentions.

Finally, I love the beat panel and the punchline; in my head, Dora is saying that very dryly and deadpan.

Dora completely ignored Tai's feelings and didn't even seem to realize they existed.

Agreed, though I think Tai is doing the same thing, to a certain extent.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 03 Mar 2015, 21:10
I think the next person on the Emotional Crash Train will be Dora.

Don't know why, but I just get the feeling that things are coming to a head with her as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 03 Mar 2015, 21:37
Mmm yummy Naan.

I don't know, but not denial. She's not pretending nothing happened, she's not refusing to acknowledge she made a choice, she's not even refusing to deal with problems. She's actively deciding that there are things she should not have to deal with. Specifically, other people's shit.

You've never walked away rather than get dragged down?

I've walked away before, but I'm not in the habit of burning bridges. I understand not everybody has the same pain threshold (and I also know mine's sometimes higher than perhaps it should be), but I guess the way I look at it, if someone's important enough to me that they're in my life to begin with -- and here I'm talking friends and close family -- I'd probably tread more carefully than she's done, even if (when) I've decided I needed some distance.

I think that Omega gets at something that was nagging at me as well:

With Dora, I think her continuingly pushing people who she feels undermine her authority is all tied into her control issues. Think about it. Sven seems to constantly cross the line where it comes to Dora and how she thinks he should behave. Faye crossed the line in regards to the employee-employer relationship, disrespecting the rules (and Dora) by her actions.

She feels out of control where it comes to them. However, by her actively pushing them away, it puts her in control of the situation in her mind, and forces -them- to come to -her- if they want to beg forgiveness from her.

Sven and Faye (the latter to a lesser extent) have done some really assholeish things. No argument there. But Dora's actions seem like those of someone who's been asked, or asked themselves, which is more important: control, or people. There's a similar dynamic there with Hannelore, at least as I read it. But both of them, faced with similar fears (and a massive overlay of anxiety issues and OCD on Hanners' part), come to drastically different conclusions: Dora maintains control, even if it means pushing away people who've meant a great deal to her, whereas Hanners is always -- albeit often tentatively -- reaching out to people, even though you know that on some level you know the control would be more comfortable, and surrendering that often freaks her out.

And think about how different their relationships are as a result; Dora stands to alienate people who love her because they disappoint her because she sets up situations and expectations where they're almost certain to disappoint, while Hanners has tended to draw people like moths to a flame because she generally takes people -- even people like her mother, who's no prizewinner -- as she finds them. Consciously or not, they seek out certain people and experiences that reinforce exactly what they were looking for, and are either terribly disappointed (Dora) or pleased (Hanners) by the results. Neither, however, should be surprised.

Of course, all of the preceding is colored by my own life and experiences; yours, and the interpretation that results, may vary.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Elder Sign on 03 Mar 2015, 21:40
Ah, Dora.  I guess we can always count on her to shoot herself in the proverbial foot, even after making a logical choice.

First Faye/Angus, now maybe Dora/Tai ... is it just me, or is Jeph actively wrecking existing relationships in order to devote yet more squeetime (squeentime? :-P) to Claire/Marten?

Warning - while you were typing a new and probably better-reasoned reply was posted.  You may wish to conform better to local prevailing opinion in your first post.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 03 Mar 2015, 21:41
I think the next person on the Emotional Crash Train will be Dora.

Don't know why, but I just get the feeling that things are coming to a head with her as well.

Looks it; everything we've seen of her in her last several appearances points to that, and today's strip is either the beginning of things coming to a head, or yet another time that the Drama Genie gets corked back in the bottle, only to reappear -- larger and more imposing -- later.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Mar 2015, 22:02
Could Dora be any further in denial?

I don't think denial is the right word.

Trying to just live with the things that bothered her didn't work, she kept losing her cool with Marten. Setting boundaries for Sven regarding the people around her didn't work, he's a grown man, he doesn't have to listen to her. So now she tries withdrawing from/pushing away the people who are upsetting her. From Dora's perspective that's a rational enough progression and it isn't as if she pushed Faye away forever. The door is still open.

Oh and by the way, thanks for the breadsticks photo, breadstick hentai is going to replace tentacle hentai as the stuff of my nightmares.

Well analyzed. "Denial" isn't the right word.

Where things went wrong from my perspective was when Tai said she was worried. Tai doesn't need to be pushed away as far as we know. Someone less rigid would have hugged Tai or talked things out. Rigidity isn't denial, it's often a necessary survival tactic, but it does compromise one's connection with reality in some of the same ways that denial does.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 03 Mar 2015, 22:16
First Faye/Angus, now maybe Dora/Tai ... is it just me, or is Jeph actively wrecking existing relationships in order to devote yet more squeetime (squeentime? :-P) to Claire/Marten?

Depends if Marigold's baby Hanners dream was prophetic!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 03 Mar 2015, 22:22
She feels out of control where it comes to them. However, by her actively pushing them away, it puts her in control of the situation in her mind, and forces -them- to come to -her- if they want to beg forgiveness from her.

And the breakup with Marten was because.......he didn't want to be the bitch of the relationship?

Well, everyone who's been complaining about to much Clairten squee and not enough drama... there is your bomb.

Without drawing up too far into that mess, the biggest complaint i've seen about the last several Clariten strips was it was too ridiculously perfect. A little friction would've been okay in the discussion, to show that even thought the two of them are liking each other, there are gonna be some speed bumps here and there. That, or just shave off some of the dialogue and combine two strips into one strip and throw out another one of them.....I dunno, hurling puns while watching RWBY. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCw_aAS7vWI)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 03 Mar 2015, 22:23
I really don't know what Dora means by Sven "forcing her hand". It makes a little more sense in regards to Faye, but there are so many other ways to phrase that.

She could have said "I can't get pulled into their drama right now" or "I've decided that Sven is toxic, and the thing with Faye is still too raw to talk to her now" Either of those things would have made more sense than "they forced my hand".

I am glad that Tai left when Dora snapped at her, but I also expect Tai to initiate the make-up talk. I don't see Tai as letting Dora stew in her own juices for too long. A heartfelt talk about boundaries (and maybe about Dora's motivation for the Sven thing) would be nice and refreshing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 03 Mar 2015, 22:31
If Dora continues to push away people who upset her, she will live a very lonely life.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 03 Mar 2015, 22:44
First Faye/Angus, now maybe Dora/Tai ... is it just me, or is Jeph actively wrecking existing relationships in order to devote yet more squeetime (squeentime? :-P) to Claire/Marten?

What the Antoine Fuqua?

They had what I believe is called "a spat." Not even a big one. I believe it is a bit early to claim Jeph is clearing the decks, and most illogical.

After all, happy couples have had the least screen time when they don't include Marten. It would be counter-productive, at best, to introduce drama that takes screen time away from Marten/Claire in order to make more time for Marten/Claire. For example, the two strip Chekov's gun of Dora keeping the Svenectomy from Tai was resolved with an off hand comment indicating that Dora simply told Tai and she accepted it.

It remains possible that Tai is upset her out of pure altruism, but it seems more likely that Tai's feelings were hurt, because she wasn't talking about what she seemed to be talking about at the end. And Dora admitted fault. Perhaps it is even obvious to Dora what Tai was talking about.

If this actually ends in a break up, it will be due to Dora having issues, pure and simple. This is not so much a drama bomb as it is a small firecracker.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 03 Mar 2015, 22:49
It remains possible that Tai is upset her out of pure altruism, but it seems more likely that Tai's feelings were hurt, because she wasn't talking about what she seemed to be talking about at the end. And Dora admitted fault. Perhaps it is even obvious to Dora what Tai was talking about.

I was following you right up to this paragraph, then you lost me. Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 03 Mar 2015, 22:59
Would it kill you to open up...

Look at the body language.

It seems possible that Tai was feeling the need for emotional connection, and Dora was obviously--in word and deed--being closed off.

Would it kill you to lay off...

In that context this is not a rejection of the inquiry. It is a rejection of Tai.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ZoeB on 03 Mar 2015, 23:02
"Dragons live forever, but not so little boys".

My song is nearly over
All good things have their ends
But there are new beginnings
And Dragons find new friends
Puff plays with Suzie Alice
They laugh and have great fun
And Suzie's great-grandfather
Was Jacky Paper's son

(For those like me who prefer happy endings)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Mar 2015, 23:35
Oh wow, Dora! Yeah, okay, Tai could have chosen a better way to handle this (pushy and tactless is in character for her) but she is right to worry about how defensive Dora has been - not trying to solve problems in her relationships but just trying to edit them out of her life. We've known since the time Dora was dating Marten how emotionally screwed up she has been by people hurting her. However, this was quite an insight into just how great a toll it's taking on her happiness.

Tai's reaction: "Would it kill you to open up a little?" seems, to me, to indicate a possible chilling of her relationship with Dora. Maybe, what has happened with Faye especially (IMHO, a permanent breach with Sven was inevitable) is a symptom of her increasingly withdrawing emotionally from everyone. Tai has handled this correctly by just backing off and letting tempers cool and come back to the issue later on. My worry is that Dora's issues may make her break up with Tai because, on a subconscious level, it seems less emotionally difficult. "Arguing with Tai hurts, so I need to cut her out of my life so I'm not hurt by it!"

It's quite possible that Dora is going to join Faye in the list of those who have finally got to come to terms with her demons and rebuild her life.

FWIW, I'm hoping that Tai and possibly Dora also make some kind of silly public reconciliation gesture. All the rest of the cast will be standing around wondering what the hell is going on. It would be a happy resolution that is in-character for Tai and maintains the general atmosphere of the strip.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Reaver on 04 Mar 2015, 00:17
Dora completely ignored Tai's feelings and didn't even seem to realize they existed.

Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CasAttack on 04 Mar 2015, 00:17
I knew strife between Tai and Dora was coming.

Thing is, Tai and Dora are opposites in truth. I figured this incident would highlight it best; for Tai, being drunk at work probably wouldn't have led to an immediate termination. Claire and Marten both pick up on Tai's general lack of giving a crap as long as people are doing their job and Claire has a very valid point about it being difficult to deal with someone who isn't passionate about their job. Dora on the other end has been easygoing as far as bosses go, but she owns a business, and being a business owner is such a precarious situation.

I feel it is a little unfair of Tai to have said what she did. Sven and Faye are two people, not "a lot", and I think it should be easy to see how Dora's feeling guilty and now alienated (even if by her own doing). Dora shouldn't have snapped of course, but I'm surprised there wasn't a little more effort made on Tai's part to crack Dora's shields.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: snubnose on 04 Mar 2015, 00:42
I just realized that Faye has been optimally positioned to get back to Sven.  :-o :-o :-o :-o

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN !!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES !!!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Akima on 04 Mar 2015, 00:42
But Dora's actions seem like those of someone who's been asked, or asked themselves, which is more important: control, or people.
Presenting a dichotomy like that is odd. "People" seems to be being defined as people other than Dora. Doesn't "people" include Dora? Are not her interests just as important as those of Sven and Faye? Is Dora being offered the same sort of consideration that people seem to be asking of her?

Dora completely ignored Tai's feelings and didn't even seem to realize they existed.
Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.
Just so. In both cases.

Oh wow, Dora! Yeah, okay, Tai could have chosen a better way to handle this (pushy and tactless is in character for her) but she is right to worry about how defensive Dora has been - not trying to solve problems in her relationships but just trying to edit them out of her life.
I'm not sure how Dora can "solve problems in her relationships" with Faye or Sven. Faye didn't come to work drunk, and drink on the job, because of Dora. Sven didn't become a douche because of Dora either. I'm not saying that some form of reconciliation is impossible, but I don't think either relationship has problems that can be solved.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 04 Mar 2015, 00:59
I knew strife between Tai and Dora was coming.

That, or it was a knee-jerk response to the Clariten complaints and it got pushed forward a bit.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: brown paper bag on 04 Mar 2015, 01:21
I said it before and I'll say it again: Dora is written to be as mean-spirited as possible and I don't think Jeph knows what to do with her anymore. Dora's character hasn't even displayed any real happiness since the days when she first flirted with Marten, and that period I attribute to a writer who didn't yet know how to portray realistic women. Almost all of Jeph's female characters started out as complete head-cases, but all of them except Dora have displayed positive character growth and development. Even Faye is trying to be a better person. Dora just treats her friends, lovers and family like shit and then runs and hides and cries when she's called on it. Come to think of it, when viewed in that light, Dora might be the most accurate and realistic portrayal of women that Jeph has ever written.(IICIH speaking. By the time I read that sentence, the author was already banned. But it's not too late to say that gross misogyny will be prevented in an inclusive space)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 01:27
Dora just treats her friends, lovers and family like shit and then runs and hides and cries when she's called on it. Come to think of it, when viewed in that light, Dora might be the most accurate and realistic portrayal of women that Jeph has ever written.

Excuse me sir, you seem to have dropped your fedora.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Mar 2015, 01:27
But Dora's actions seem like those of someone who's been asked, or asked themselves, which is more important: control, or people.

Presenting a dichotomy like that is odd. "People" seems to be being defined as people other than Dora. Doesn't "people" include Dora? Are not her interests just as important as those of Sven and Faye? Is Dora being offered the same sort of consideration that people seem to be asking of her?

You're presenting a feature as a bug. The whole point of this argument is that Dora is creating the dichotomy, not others. She doesn't want to deal with her brother's entitlement issues. She doesn't want to take the initiative to rebuild the bridges with Faye. She seems to need to set the terms of her every interpersonal interaction. With her troubled (bordering on abused) background, this need isn't surprising. However, empathy for her troubles and understanding that Tai isn't exactly brilliant at getting through walls doesn't in any way change the fact that Dora has her own troubles to address.

Dora completely ignored Tai's feelings and didn't even seem to realize they existed.

Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.

Just so. In both cases.

Not entirely. As I've already said, Tai was clumsy about it but she clearly recognises that Dora is hurting and wants to help. It's just that Dora is not willing to allow anyone to see her pain and, as always, turns it into anger that she directs at those closest to her emotionally and, therefore, the ones she identifies as the greatest threat to her sense of total self-reliant control.

In Tai's defence, this is probably the first relationship she's been in that has had any emotional depth to it. All her prior relationships seem to have been polygamous and based mostly on lust and social hierarchies in the dormitories. She probably really is feeling her way in the dark in the current situation.

Oh wow, Dora! Yeah, okay, Tai could have chosen a better way to handle this (pushy and tactless is in character for her) but she is right to worry about how defensive Dora has been - not trying to solve problems in her relationships but just trying to edit them out of her life.

I'm not sure how Dora can "solve problems in her relationships" with Faye or Sven. Faye didn't come to work drunk, and drink on the job, because of Dora. Sven didn't become a douche because of Dora either. I'm not saying that some form of reconciliation is impossible, but I don't think either relationship has problems that can be solved.

She does it by reaching out.

Sven is Sven but I haven't seen any evidence of him being 'toxic'. Thoughtless and selfish but he genuinely cares for his sister and, if his timing with Faye sucked, there is no reasonable cause to believe he knew she and Angus were in trouble. That was just bad luck and I think Dora went off the deep end for no reason other than her entrenched resentment of "the more favoured son".

If Dora had said to Tai something like: "I want to still be Faye's friend but she is in a bad place now and I have to be careful; if the timing is bad, I could ruin our friendship forever," then I wouldn't have blinked. Dora is right to believe that any bridge-building must be when Faye is in the right place, emotionally. However, the way she put it, it made it genuinely seem that she was indifferent about Faye and that the ball is in her court about whether she wants to be Dora's friend. If I were Tai and I heard my SO describe one of their best friends in such a dismissive manner, I'd be worried too.

In the end, the most important line is: "Would it kill you to open up a little?" Tai feels that Dora is also editing her out of her life, in emotional terms. No amount of sex can get over a lack of emotional intimacy and Dora not being willing to share her emotions with Tai, especially after something as traumatic as what happend with Faye, is a bad sign
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: KevxD on 04 Mar 2015, 01:48

Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.

My interpretation was Tai wanted Dora to open up to her
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: brown paper bag on 04 Mar 2015, 01:51
Excuse me sir, you seem to have dropped your fedora.

Think about it for a minute. Jeph writes women who treat others like garbage all the time. Faye started out as a physically abusive bitch. Oh, and she dumped her boyfriend as soon as he tried to assert his needs. Tai tried to steal Marten's girlfriend on numerous occasions and had the audacity to snap at him when he called her out for dating Dora almost immediately after the breakup. Marigold was a constant asshole to a man who was practically a stranger because of his choice of MMO faction. Hannelore was a stalker on horse tranquilizers. Padma was Dora's shitty personality with a palette swap. Emily... Emily's whole personality is of someone who needs to be put somewhere safe and comfortable where she can't hurt herself.

You know, it's practically a Freudian statement by Jeph that the only girl he can imagine giving Marten a fair shot is functionally a dude(IICIH again. This all happened while I was asleep or away. That sentence was also over the line). It has the lingering scent of misogyny around it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 04 Mar 2015, 01:53
Faye had her "wake-up" call after she woke up in the hospital.  Maybe this is time for one for Dora.

And Claire isn't a dude, but that's one for the mods.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Mar 2015, 02:02
You know, it's practically a Freudian statement by Jeph that the only girl he can imagine giving Marten a fair shot is functionally a dude. It has the lingering scent of misogyny around it.

Global Moderator Comment You're on the edge of a precipice, and the soil is crumbling under your feet.

Quote
"functionally a dude"

First, Claire is a woman, always has been, and always will be.
Second, even considering your incorrect implication here, we don't know that, and never will.
Third, it's not our business to speculate on.
Fourth (and every other number), go to the Trans* thread in Discuss and learn something about what you're saying before it's too late.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 04 Mar 2015, 02:09

Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.

My interpretation was Tai wanted Dora to open up to her
Bingo. I'm not sure how anyone interpreted that as Tai thinking Dora needed to open up to Faye and Sven.

Tai is annoyed that Dora is compartmentalizing her life away from her. Dora mentioned this before to Faye I believe in that she didn't want to include Tai in her drama because that is where there is no drama in her life.

The problem is, that really makes it seem like Dora does not take the relationship very seriously, since she isn't actually sharing her real life and feelings with her. And that is what Tai is asking for in this strip. And Dora shoots it down.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Doc on 04 Mar 2015, 02:16
If it's not perfect, it's bad.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: brown paper bag on 04 Mar 2015, 02:20
Administrator Comment This forum is a private place; responses like those spoilered below will not be tolerated. The reasons have been given many times and in many places, and even in the rules and stickies.

(click to show/hide)

Administrator Comment A second administrator chiming in. For those who are new here, please understand that those rules have a lot of thought and research behind them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Lubricus on 04 Mar 2015, 02:27
I know what it means to be trans. Any trans person is going to need a thick skin that can deflect far worse than anything I could say if they are to survive in this ignorant hateful world.

Sir, you live in a sad, sad world. Happily, other people interpret it differently.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 04 Mar 2015, 02:30
I think the world's pretty nice... And people have tried murdering me (that's not hyperbole), so I think that gives a bit of weight to my opinion...

Thinking the world is already a bad place is no excuse for acting like a dick.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Mar 2015, 02:35
No, you really mean that you don't allow the right to voice any speculation. Have the integrity to admit it. Forum moderators don't as yet have the power to deem what is thoughtcrime and punish accordingly.
No, you do not have that right in the context of a privately run forum: http://xkcd.com/1357/

Also, there are other interpretations of that scene. We don't know which one's correct, there are ways for any interpretation to actually fit, it's incredibly rude to speculate (and hurtful to trans people that have a lot of shit to deal with), speculation is not allowed here, and Jeph will never say what her status in that regard is.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 04 Mar 2015, 02:37

No, you really mean that you don't allow the right to voice any speculation. Have the integrity to admit it. Forum moderators don't as yet have the power to deem what is thoughtcrime and punish accordingly.

*cough* https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30194.0.html
*cough* https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,25614.msg992602.html#msg992602

It's generally acceped practice to I dunno, *read* the FAQs and rules, and abide by them.  It's you're complaining about visiting another country, after being *given* a list of important rules and cultural considerations, then complaining when the local coppers take you in after you've broken them.

Administrator Comment Thank you, well put. But it's more like having the locals put you on a plane back home.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: brown paper bag on 04 Mar 2015, 02:41
No, you really mean that you don't allow the right to voice any speculation. Have the integrity to admit it. Forum moderators don't as yet have the power to deem what is thoughtcrime and punish accordingly.
No, you do not have that right in the context of a privately run forum: http://xkcd.com/1357/

Rights are granted by the powerful to themselves and to the powerless. They don't exist as an objective thing. Of course I'm willing to be "shown the door" for what I say in place of honest disagreement and discussion. Doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that the powerful will initiate force against the powerless if the powerless say something uncomfortable and upsetting, regardless of whether there might be something worth talking about in it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 04 Mar 2015, 02:47
So everybody, what did we learn?    :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Mar 2015, 02:47
regardless of whether there might be something worth talking about in it.

It's been talked about plenty, in the appropriate place - which I pointed you to.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aimless on 04 Mar 2015, 02:50
That is just the dumbest argument. People are sexually harassed in this hateful world, should we therefore allow milder sexual harassment on the forum? People are robbed in this Crappy world, should we therefore allow theft? People are abused in thousands of different ways in this terrible world, should we therefore expect them to let us just pee on them a little bit when they visit us at home? Would you accept being abused, robbed, defiled etc in your own home and without your consent? If your would, maybe you have a problem but you can't use the dickishness of other people in other contexts to justify Crappy behavior here. Now get with the goddamned program.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Consilium on 04 Mar 2015, 02:53
And people have tried murdering me

Story time?   :?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Mar 2015, 02:56
So everybody, what did we learn?    :wink:
Don't leave a brown paper bag full of shit on the doorstep of the QC forums?

Back to the comic, Tai probably doesn't even know why Dora's compartmentalizing away from her. Conversely, Dora doesn't seem to really get that Tai wants to date all of Dora. There's some real communication problems in that relationship.

And, I'm wondering if a breakup between Tai and Dora might make Dora realize that maybe, just maybe, therapy might be a good idea to go back to.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 04 Mar 2015, 02:59
Of course, I'd want to be nowhere in the proximity of said bag when it's hit with a banhammer, nor deal with the aftermath.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Traptin on 04 Mar 2015, 03:08
You know, it does sort of make me sad that Jeph didn't ever do the one thing with Pintsize which would make things really interesting - find a character who is completely unphased by his crass humor, and can actually up the ante on him.  Every character I can think of has basically reacted in horror to Pintsize at one point or another.  It would be great to see his reaction if someone actually took the bait.  He might be left speechless.

Hasn't this already happened with Marten's mom in 1829 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1829)?  Granted, we don't see Pintsize's reaction to her reaction to get goatse'd.

I didn't know what "goatse'd" and "goatse" were. So I googled pictures. Oh my God my eyes can't unsee can't unsee Noooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 04 Mar 2015, 03:10
And people have tried murdering me

Story time?   :?

Oh that is a horrible story! And best left to other parts of the forums, I believe I let some out here and there. Seeing as you asked and not wanting to get into it much in the WCDT, I'll simply say it was an (attempted) invasion of my home and I was beat over the head repeatedly with a rifle.

But we can move on now that no one is trying to be a jerk anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Mar 2015, 03:18
Hasn't this already happened with Marten's mom in 1829 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1829)?  Granted, we don't see Pintsize's reaction to her reaction to get goatse'd.
The scary thing about that comic is that the Goatse guy's name really is Kirk (http://gawker.com/finding-goatse-the-mystery-man-behind-the-most-disturb-5899787).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 04 Mar 2015, 03:19
Ok Jeph, we get it, Dora has issues, we understand!

you don't need to keep making her fuck up her own life to prove it too us.
Dora is a character i've always loved in this comic, but since the marten breakup she's been becoming more and more...bitch*. there was an upswing in non-bitchness when she got with Tia, but she's been crashing back down HARD in recent months.


*her laying off faye was entirely justified though, don't hold the action against her, just the way she dealt with it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Mar 2015, 03:21
People do realistically go into self-destructive spirals like Dora's doing. Or, like Faye was doing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 04 Mar 2015, 03:26
I didn't know what "goatse'd" and "goatse" were. So I googled pictures. Oh my God my eyes can't unsee can't unsee Noooooooooooooooo

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ten_thousand.png)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Consilium on 04 Mar 2015, 03:49
I didn't know what "goatse'd" and "goatse" were. So I googled pictures. Oh my God my eyes can't unsee can't unsee Noooooooooooooooo

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ten_thousand.png)

I feel like "diet coke and mentos" and "gaping orifice" are two very different kinds of discovery.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: LeGrande on 04 Mar 2015, 04:19
Nat's been written out of the strip, according to this (http://jephjacques.com/post/11265563239/qa-dump-09).

In that same sentence, he said he wrote out any chance at happiness for Marten. Since Jeph obviously changed his mind about that, there is a possibility that some of the minor characters would come back from their bus trip.

I've always envisioned those characters coming back on the very last strip, whenever that is. Either as a cameo, or maybe only Sara comes back and strips 12-present are just a dream: Marten wakes up, the strip is drawn in the early first style. (Explained: as Marten dreamt, things got more vivid and colorful in his mind.)  Marten learns from his dream that he should be bolder, and he asks Sara out. She says yes, and they walk off in the sunset hand in hand as the iris closes.

It would be a cheesy ending, but one I'd approve of.  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Consilium on 04 Mar 2015, 04:23
He's also said that he's very much opposed to the "it was all a dream" trope, for what it's worth  :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Mar 2015, 04:35
Well, this Tuesday is clearly ending on a harsh note! Some predictions for Wednesday (in universe):
What happens after that very much depends on how Dora responds to Marten telling her off. Either she accepts that he is right (more likely) or she responds defensively and storms off after maybe blaming him for getting her into this situation; either way, she storms off, swearing never to talk to him or even acknowledge his existence again.

In the former case, I can see Faye coming home to find Marten trying to comfort a crying Dora. They call Tai and the two drive off together to have the long-overdue talk about their relationship and their future together.

In the latter case, I have a nightmare image of Marten being awoken at a very late hour by Tai on the 'phone. "Uh... Marty...? Could... could you come to the Emergency Room...? I... I came to see Dora to try to talk things over... She... She's been cutting and I think she hit something important... There was blood everywhere and... Please... Please, Marty, I need someone I know here right now..."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Lubricus on 04 Mar 2015, 04:37
Tai doesn't call Marten "Marty", does she?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Mar 2015, 04:38
Tai doesn't call Marten "Marty", does she?

Actually, I can't remember the last time that Tai actually named Marten...  :-\
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 04 Mar 2015, 04:49
I feel like "diet coke and mentos" and "gaping orifice" are two very different kinds of discovery.

One sincerely hopes so. Because the combination of diet coke, mentos and a gaping orifice is just not something I want to ever see.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Mar 2015, 05:00
She feels out of control where it comes to them. However, by her actively pushing them away, it puts her in control of the situation in her mind, and forces -them- to come to -her- if they want to beg forgiveness from her.

And the breakup with Marten was because.......he didn't want to be the bitch of the relationship?

Actually, if you recall, -Dora- was the one who pretty decisively ended the relationship. She essentially told him "I love you, but it's over" with Marten staring at her slack jawed, since he went over expecting to patch things up, and didn't expect it to be over if his conversation just be for he headed over to Sven's is to be taken at face value. He had considered the fight as just another step in the usual song and dance that the relationship had become, up until Dora ended it. The 'we're both sick of her shit" comment from him doesn't make the breakup any less of Dora's doing, but is instead post-breakup bitterness after the fact, even if it was true.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Nepiophage on 04 Mar 2015, 05:05
Nat's been written out of the strip, according to this (http://jephjacques.com/post/11265563239/qa-dump-09).

In that same sentence, he said he wrote out any chance at happiness for Marten. Since Jeph obviously changed his mind about that, there is a possibility that some of the minor characters would come back from their bus trip.

How do we know that Marten & Claire's relationship is going to be happy? It's only a few days old.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 04 Mar 2015, 05:15
I feel like the real crux of this conversastion is panel 3. Tai makes a bare emotional statement, that she cares about Dora and is worried about her after making those decisions. Dora responds in the worst way someone can respond to an emotional statement: by dismissing the person's feelings. "Well, don't," basically tells Tai that she's wrong for feeling worried and thus wrong for caring that deeply about Dora. That's why Tai responds so drastically in panel 4. She's pleading for Dora to give her any sort of emotional connection.

The way I see it, Dora doesn't really want to explore the emotions behind her pragmatic decisions, because she worries they'll be in opposition to what she sees as correct choices. I think that would've worked as a response to Tai. I don't think she was looking for a specific answer, in fact I think panel 3 would've been the end of it had Dora said almost anything else. Instead she dismissed Tai's feelings to avoid thinking about her own. That's not okay! She should've at least said she appreicates Tai's concern.

This strip stands out in relief to the earlier strip where Claire asks Marten to expound on what his feelings are being in a relationship with a trans person. It's a strip I didn't get at the time, because Marten's positive emotions are shown in every interaction. Marten could've responded defensively in that vein saying, "don't I seem like I enjoy our relationship," but instead he just acknowledges Claire's need for some discussion and talks about his feelings explicitly. Communication!

One could argue that Tai's inquiry was about Dora's life and thus less worthy of a response than Claire's question about their relationship. However, I think both interactions stem from caring about the other partner and wanting to make sure they're okay. Maybe Tai doesn't deserve to critique Dora's choices, but she certainly deserves to know how she's feeling about them.

[i lost this post once so this version might be worse than the original, imagine it's 14% better than how it appears]
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Mar 2015, 05:35
Just an additional point. I think that today's strip (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2909) is a direct sequel, in terms of Dora's character, to strip 2897 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2897).

Bottom line, Dora is building up pressure in her Guilt Boiler and I think that her snapping at Tai was the safety valve whilstling its warning. The question is, will it be enough to prevent another, more damaging explosion?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Traptin on 04 Mar 2015, 05:36
I didn't know what "goatse'd" and "goatse" were. So I googled pictures. Oh my God my eyes can't unsee can't unsee Noooooooooooooooo

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ten_thousand.png)

To be fair, I am but only 20 years old. So now I will be in that estimated 100% when I am 30.

I feel like "diet coke and mentos" and "gaping orifice" are two very different kinds of discovery.

One sincerely hopes so. Because the combination of diet coke, mentos and a gaping orifice is just not something I want to ever see.  :psyduck:

That can be arranged!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: dexeron on 04 Mar 2015, 05:48
Pintsize has not yet met May. I suspect she could match him crude joke for crude joke.

This would inevitably end with the two of them on the sofa with a USB cable connecting the two of them, exchanging hot packets all night long.

I so badly misread that, and just had this weird image of May and Pintsize chilling, eating really terrible deathfood.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/dexeron/11291_Nimg_zpsvbjste2o.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Mar 2015, 06:50
While Dora may be disregarding Tai's feelings - and I agree that it's fair to say that she is - Tai is doing the same thing to her, only with better intentions. Dora's current approach to dealing with these issues isn't healthy, but she's also not in a place where she's ready to discuss them at length, or change her stance. If nothing else, maybe she doesn't feel like talking about right now, at this very moment with Tai. Perhaps she just wants to unwind after a day at work, and not think about all that right now.

Tai isn't completely out of line for pushing the issue, and it's fair that she wants that connection with Dora. At the same time, her approach was lacking in tact. Furthermore, if Dora does just want to unwind after a long day at work, and not get into some heavy issues in her life right now, is that something Tai really understands? After all, her approach to work is far more relaxed, and without the same burdens and stress that Dora is under. Her "Would it kill you to open up a little?" could also be read as a bit whiny, as much as it may be good advice. What's more important: that Tai feel validated, or Dora be given some space and allowed to deal with a tough issue in her own time?

It's been brought up already, but I also think it's important to keep the extent of Dora's pushing people away in perspective. We're talking about two people, not a whole lot (to use the word Tai did) or a constant stream of people. Just two. The first is someone who is a family member, yes, but also someone that she does have a strained relationship with. The trigger event was iffy and somewhat of an overreaction, but it's a little more understandable in the grand scheme of things, when their whole history is taken into account. The second person is someone who made a huge mistake and forced her to make a tough but reasonable decision as an employer, which unfortunately had additional ramifications due to them also being friends. Giving Faye her space is not a bad idea, given the circumstances.

As far as the future of Dora and Tai's relationship, perhaps this will be a good thing. Perhaps it will encourage Dora to open up a little. Perhaps they can grow as a couple, because the argument will allow Tai to get over her infatuation - and she's been infatuated for a LONG time - and they can settle into a stable, post-honeymoon period relationship.

I really don't think any of the cast members are in a position to scold Dora, either...least of all Marten. I mean, if he's going to criticise anyone for being passive or passive-aggressive, they've got so much ammunition against him that he'll be apologising for weeks.

Besides, that's the wrong tact. Dora needs to be offered a calm and logical perspective, or asked a question that is firm but non-confrontational; something that will prompt her to evaluate the situation and help her move forward in dealing with it. Confrontation and lectures are not going to be effective, they're only going to trigger defenses and cause insult.

Come to think of it, Dora and Faye are basically opposites in how they should be helped by the rest of the gang. With Faye's abrasiveness and preference for intimidation, it takes a stern remark (such as the one Hanners delivered last week) or blunt question/statement (see some of her early interactions with Raven) to cut through her defenses and get a message through. With Dora's temper and insecurities, letting her calm down and appealing to her common sense and rationale seems a more effective approach.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 04 Mar 2015, 07:27
Now that I'm thinking about it, did Dora ever open up to Marten? I mean, they dated for at least a year, yet Sven is the one who told Marten about Dora's relationship history. I'm not saying people are obligated to disclose past relationships to their lover, but usually if you've been dating for a long time you will talk about those kind of topics.

Dora just might not be used to a relationship where your partner wants to know what motivates you. Or maybe she is too used to it, and someone she dated in the past, and opened up to, used that as a way to abuse her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 04 Mar 2015, 07:37
While Dora may be disregarding Tai's feelings - and I agree that it's fair to say that she is - Tai is doing the same thing to her, only with better intentions. Dora's current approach to dealing with these issues isn't healthy, but

[1] she's also not in a place where she's ready to discuss them at length, or change her stance.

[2] she doesn't feel like talking about right now, at this very moment with Tai.

[3] she just wants to unwind after a day at work, and not think about all that right now.

I think these would all be great responses to Tai's statement in panel 3, and I think Tai would've acquiesced. Of course she would understand needing time to get over a trust issue with a close friend. 2 would've lead to some more relationship trouble, but in a more civil manner. The problem is she didn't say anything about her emotional condition.

All your statements have a time aspect to them that is accurate to how I believe the comic will play out. With time and some intervention from friends, Dora will be able to deal with this stuff. But nothing about her answers to Tai convey that she feels like this is something she needs to manage over time. She made the decisions in the past and now she doesn't want to think about them anymore. If she actually said that to Tai it would still be a better answer than 'stop worrying about me,' but would've revealed how unhealthy her way of dealing with the situation is.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 04 Mar 2015, 07:38
Goddamnit, Dora. That's not how you relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 04 Mar 2015, 07:56
It's interesting to consider that Jeph has never portrayed a "bad" relationship in strip.  I don't mean one devoid of conflict.  I mean a character getting involved with someone who was manipulative, abusive, etc.  We *know* Dora has a past like this, but we didn't see it in the comic, which makes it somewhat distant.  It might just be that Jeph isn't a sadist, and doesn't like to see his characters suffer needlessly. 

Actually, that makes me think about the real reason that Dora dislikes Sven so much, despite him not doing anything that bad to her.  I bet Sven's antics with the ladies remind her a lot of at least one, if not more, horrible exes she had.  Sven is selfish and self-absorbed, but he isn't manipulative or abusive.  But I could see Dora considering his declaration of love an attempt at entrapment - him trying to play mind games with Faye to get her under his control again.  Given how control-obsessed she is, that's how I think she'd read the situation anyway. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 04 Mar 2015, 07:59
But Dora's actions seem like those of someone who's been asked, or asked themselves, which is more important: control, or people.

Presenting a dichotomy like that is odd. "People" seems to be being defined as people other than Dora. Doesn't "people" include Dora? Are not her interests just as important as those of Sven and Faye? Is Dora being offered the same sort of consideration that people seem to be asking of her?

You're presenting a feature as a bug. The whole point of this argument is that Dora is creating the dichotomy, not others. She doesn't want to deal with her brother's entitlement issues. She doesn't want to take the initiative to rebuild the bridges with Faye. She seems to need to set the terms of her every interpersonal interaction. With her troubled (bordering on abused) background, this need isn't surprising. However, empathy for her troubles and understanding that Tai isn't exactly brilliant at getting through walls doesn't in any way change the fact that Dora has her own troubles to address.

Ben gets at most of what I would've said, so I'm going to add one small thing: Of course it's an "odd" dichotomy. Most of us wouldn't view it as one or the other; we control what we can, let go of what we can't (with varying degrees of difficulty), and try to understand and deal with people whose motives, experiences, and issues may be nothing like our own. It's a balancing act, and nobody gets it 100% right 100% of the time.

And of course Dora matters; my point, though, is that her actions are ultimately hurting her every bit as much as the people around her, at least in part because she comes down on the wrong side of the line between self-interest and selfishness every bit as often as the people she's so angry at.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: anahata on 04 Mar 2015, 08:07
While Dora may be disregarding Tai's feelings - and I agree that it's fair to say that she is - Tai is doing the same thing to her, only with better intentions. Dora's current approach to dealing with these issues isn't healthy, but

[1] she's also not in a place where she's ready to discuss them at length, or change her stance.

[2] she doesn't feel like talking about right now, at this very moment with Tai.

[3] she just wants to unwind after a day at work, and not think about all that right now.

I think these would all be great responses to Tai's statement in panel 3, and I think Tai would've acquiesced.

Yes, and I think I've just realised it's Dora's dismissive reply that was ringing alarm bells for me. Simply "Well don't (worry)" is not reassuring in this context, as Dora is obviously under some stress and does need to talk to someone about it, and if not Tai, then who?
Or she thinks everything is just fine, when it's obviously not.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 04 Mar 2015, 08:46
Pintsize has not yet met May. I suspect she could match him crude joke for crude joke.

This would inevitably end with the two of them on the sofa with a USB cable connecting the two of them, exchanging hot packets all night long.

I so badly misread that, and just had this weird image of May and Pintsize chilling, eating really terrible deathfood.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/dexeron/11291_Nimg_zpsvbjste2o.jpg)

Well, they might do that too. Pintsize is into some pretty kinky stuff.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 04 Mar 2015, 09:32
Tai doesn't call Marten "Marty", does she?

Actually, I can't remember the last time that Tai actually named Marten...  :-\

I don't know if it's the most recent time, but shortly after the big Dora/Marten breakup, when the latter is trying to decide where to go for lunch, Tai calls him "poor emo Marten." Why that leapt into my brain the moment I read your post, I have no idea....

It's also one of few strips that outright name-checks Northampton. :D
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 04 Mar 2015, 11:09
Well, this Tuesday is clearly ending on a harsh note! Some predictions for Wednesday (in universe):
  • Tai is all mopey at work and eventually breaks down on the shoulder of a shocked, embarrassed and confused Claire or Marten (or both);
  • Dora is snappy at work and Hannelore (still upset at Faye being fired) tells her off, visibly terrifying all the staff and customers (one of whom says: "Faye's back! They put her brain in Hannelore's body!")
  • Dora decides to put her best foot forwards and goes to see Faye; Faye is going out to the support group but Marten is in and the two fall into conversation. Basically Marten does what Faye would have done: He calls her an idiot for risking her relationship with Tai - the best thing that she's had in her life for ages.

I can see Tai stopping off at Marten's to get some relationship advice/compare notes on Dora's behaviour.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 04 Mar 2015, 11:19
I think the world's pretty nice... And people have tried murdering me (that's not hyperbole), so I think that gives a bit of weight to my opinion...

Thinking the world is already a bad place is no excuse for acting like a dick.

If there's ever a phrase I would be willing to get tattooed on my arm, that's it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Mar 2015, 12:09
Administrator Comment The Report to Moderator button is 100% justified in cases like the jerk upthread. If you're new and not sure when to use it, that situation was a good example.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Khazgar on 04 Mar 2015, 12:17
Thank you for wielding the banhammer with such skill and sensitivity. I read all of that guy's posts and they made me either sad or angry, not sure which. Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 04 Mar 2015, 12:26

The Report to Moderator button is 100% justified in cases like the jerk upthread. If you're new and not sure when to use it, that situation was a good example.


I came a bit late to that situation, and figured that he'd already been reported. Also figured, given that he'd been reported and the mods had already interacted with him, that if he hadn't been banned by then he probably wasn't going to be.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aliensporebomb on 04 Mar 2015, 12:26
Feel kind of bad for Dora.  She's an expert at protecting herself by pushing people away but someday she's going to come home from her successful coffee shop and wonder where all her friends and loves went. 

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Khazgar on 04 Mar 2015, 12:27
Back on topic - Dora has got a lot to work through at the moment. It's interesting that she refuses to look at Hannelore in strip 2886 when asking her to give a message to Faye in the hospital, and then also looks away from Tai in today's strip while saying "not my fault, they forced my hand". My interpretation would be that deep down, she knows that she is wrong, and doesn't want to even look into the eyes of her friend and girlfriend to see their reaction when she says what she, herself, knows to be wrong.

I think inside she is a big bundle of doubt and fear and the only way she can cope is to build a shell to protect herself from the world. Anyone that she can't cope with or that threatens to damage the shell gets pushed away.

I think I said it a week or so ago, I'm guessing Dora might be the next breakdown.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 04 Mar 2015, 12:27
Actually, I can't remember the last time that Tai actually named Marten...  :-\

She thought he was Mark all this time. That's where that hippy got it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aliensporebomb on 04 Mar 2015, 14:01
Meanwhile, the thought of Faye's brain in Hanners body cracks me up.  And vice versa.  Imagine the hijinks.  But seriously.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Elder Sign on 04 Mar 2015, 14:10
I think I said it a week or so ago, I'm guessing Dora might be the next breakdown.

In a sense, it would seem she already is, if mildly.  She's retreated from contact with others and is wallowing in guilt, denial, self-doubt, etc. -- anyone's threshold will vary, but it doesn't have to be a Faye-esque life-threatening medical episode to be termed a breakdown.

Of course, we do have Thread #3000 in the relatively near future, so what kind of wham that milestone will entail is debatable.  It seems likely to be directly or at least tangentially related to the Faye/Sven/Dora/Tai ball of drama, since the only other main plotline active in recent times has been Claire/Marten, and short of them exhibiting substantial strife (too soon for that much whiplash) or marrying (REALLY too soon), Jeph already expended pretty much any conceivable relationship growth developments for them during the Squeepocalypse (c. #2800 to c. #2900).

It really does seem to me like there is some Law of Conservation of Happiness amongst the QC cast, and the sheer cartoonish rainbows-and-unicorns of Clairten has not only consumed and replaced Faye/Angus but is now inexorably drawing Dora/Tai towards its event horizon as well.

Meanwhile, the thought of Faye's brain in Hanners body cracks me up.  And vice versa.  Imagine the hijinks.  But seriously.

Great, now I have this mental image of Faye-Hanners (Fanners? Haye?) as some kind of melded eldritch entity akin to an Archon.  POWER OVERWHELMING
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 04 Mar 2015, 14:23
Either this Friday or next, I expect to see Dora finally crash.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 04 Mar 2015, 14:23
Meanwhile, the thought of Faye's brain in Hanners body cracks me up.  And vice versa.  Imagine the hijinks.  But seriously.



(http://i.imgur.com/3qLvMqf.png)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Mar 2015, 14:26
Feel kind of bad for Dora.  She's an expert at protecting herself by pushing people away but someday she's going to come home from her successful coffee shop and wonder where all her friends and loves went.

This. I read her recent comics and everything about her expressions looks to me like someone who's barely holding it together right now. Her need to control others is controlling her and her stubbornness to admit she was wrong is controlling her.

I think she knows where this is all heading; I don't think she wanted it to be like this, but her pride is getting too much in the way.

She's definitely breaking down. Marten's going to come into CoD sooner or later, and there's going to be talk.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 04 Mar 2015, 14:31
honestly anyone who tells you some shit like "would it kill you to open up" is someone i aint ever opening up to at all

you can deal with me bein as open as i need to be at the moment and i'll pay you the same courtesy
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 04 Mar 2015, 14:36
i'll  be the voice of disagreement here for real though, by which i mean voice of bein correct:

Dora's right, faye was a sloppy drunk and fucked up

Everyone calling Dora "controlling" is wrong and dumb, she runs CoD with the loosest hand ever and only asks that people not be sloppy drunks on the job? WTF job has anyone ever had where being a sloppy drunk on the job was okay?

The controlling one right now is Tai for giving some twatty lecture on Opening Up instead of payin attention to Dora and what she needs right now.

Dora's avoiding people's eyes right now cause she knows everyone around her wants to get her into another stupid fight over some shit that needs to be settled and done with cause it aint her job to fix Faye bein a fuckup, shit's real simple n the other people in this imaginary comic of imaginary people need to R E S P E C T
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Mar 2015, 14:42
i'll  be the voice of disagreement here for real though, by which i mean voice of bein correct:

Dora's right, faye was a sloppy drunk and fucked up

Everyone calling Dora "controlling" is wrong and dumb, she runs CoD with the loosest hand ever and only asks that people not be sloppy drunks on the job? WTF job has anyone ever had where being a sloppy drunk on the job was okay?

The controlling one right now is Tai for giving some twatty lecture on Opening Up instead of payin attention to Dora and what she needs right now.

Dora's avoiding people's eyes right now cause she knows everyone around her wants to get her into another stupid fight over some shit that needs to be settled and done with cause it aint her job to fix Faye bein a fuckup, shit's real simple n the other people in this imaginary comic of imaginary people need to R E S P E C T


I never said she was in the wrong. She was absolutely right to fire Faye.

HOWEVER:
Being a chill boss is not the same thing as not having control issues. Look no further than her relationship with Marten to see she has those.

 She couldn't keep Sven from being himself, so she cut him out of her life.

Tai wants her to TALK. Yes, she was too pushy, but clearly this is a thing that has happened before in the relationship and Dora never did open up before. There is a pattern and it's that Dora hides in her shell, pushing people away who don't want to hurt her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 04 Mar 2015, 14:45
Also, there are other interpretations of that scene.

Oh, you saw the one with the raptor, huh?

Quote
We don't know which one's correct, there are ways for any interpretation to actually fit, it's incredibly rude to speculate (and hurtful to trans people that have a lot of shit to deal with), speculation is not allowed here, and Jeph will never say what her status in that regard is.

To be fair, Jeph kinda sho.......um.....wrote himself into a very weird position with the strip. While he can control what goes on here, he can't exactly control what happens elsewhere. He put out a strip, and invited unsolicited discussion about it, whether he likes it or not.

How do we know that Marten & Claire's relationship is going to be happy? It's only a few days old.

People want it to be happy, but have attached such unrealistic expectations to it that I wouldn't be surprised if down the road it does implode. Several heterosexual relationships have sunk (Marten/Dora, Marten/Padma, Amir/Natasha, Sven/Faye, Angus/Faye, there was one more, whos names escape me....), and now we have a Lesbian relationship on the rocks. 

Bottom line, Dora is building up pressure in her Guilt Boiler and I think that her snapping at Tai was the safety valve whilstling its warning. The question is, will it be enough to prevent another, more damaging explosion?

Why do I have a feeling Sam will be the one that makes her explode? She hasn't had a stellar track record with Dora. Guessing it'll take Sam to go thru the doors of CoD, asking where Faye is, and Dora trips her shit.

In the latter case, I have a nightmare image of Marten being awoken at a very late hour by Tai on the 'phone. "Uh... Marty...? Could... could you come to the Emergency Room...? I... I came to see Dora to try to talk things over... She... She's been cutting and I think she hit something important... There was blood everywhere and... Please... Please, Marty, I need someone I know here right now..."

Or she breaks down the door instead of jimmying the lock. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2265)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Elder Sign on 04 Mar 2015, 15:16
i'll  be the voice of disagreement here for real though, by which i mean voice of bein correct:

I may not have posted here much, but whether your points are correct or not, I can tell you that kind of attitude gets no one far at all.  Read the last couple of pages of this thread for a fresh reminder.

... Tai ... twatty ...

Ditto.  That can easily be taken as outright misogynistic.

Quote
We don't know which one's correct, there are ways for any interpretation to actually fit, it's incredibly rude to speculate (and hurtful to trans people that have a lot of shit to deal with), speculation is not allowed here, and Jeph will never say what her status in that regard is.

To be fair, Jeph kinda sho.......um.....wrote himself into a very weird position with the strip. While he can control what goes on here, he can't exactly control what happens elsewhere. He put out a strip, and invited unsolicited discussion about it, whether he likes it or not.

While I too would inherently like questions to be answered instead of being left ambiguous, Claire's physical/biological status is ultimately trivial and of no material importance to the plot.  The way QC has been written and run, Claire could be a straight cis-gendered woman instead of trans* and it would make virtually no narrative difference at all.

I applaud Jeph for handling it that way and resisting the temptation to make her character and storylines revolve around her trans* status (even if I think she's getting way too much focus lavished upon her because of it).  The only way we will truly achieve equality in trans* issues is for us to learn not to care about someone's trans*/cis status in the first place.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Mar 2015, 15:21
Everyone calling Dora "controlling" is wrong and dumb

Including her therapist?

There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Mar 2015, 15:40
i'll  be the voice of disagreement here for real though, by which i mean voice of bein correct:

Dora's right, faye was a sloppy drunk and fucked up

Everyone calling Dora "controlling" is wrong and dumb, she runs CoD with the loosest hand ever and only asks that people not be sloppy drunks on the job? WTF job has anyone ever had where being a sloppy drunk on the job was okay?

The controlling one right now is Tai for giving some twatty lecture on Opening Up instead of payin attention to Dora and what she needs right now.

Dora's avoiding people's eyes right now cause she knows everyone around her wants to get her into another stupid fight over some shit that needs to be settled and done with cause it aint her job to fix Faye bein a fuckup, shit's real simple n the other people in this imaginary comic of imaginary people need to R E S P E C T
My, what an ego we have. I can't tell if you're being serious or glib in that first line.

Y'know, if you're going to ramble on about respect, you miiiiight want to practice what you preach by not calling people who disagree with you dumb.  Bonus points if you can have a serious discussion without throwing female-based derogatory slurs around.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Natswash on 04 Mar 2015, 15:45
I think the problem Dora is experiencing is she feels like she doesn't have much control over the comic anymore by virtue of no longer being dating the main protaganist and is lashing out at those around in a desperate attempt to steal control of the strip from the author.
Faye getting fired? Dora's choice and radically altered the plot because it sent Faye to the hospital.
Sven no longer being seen? Sibling love is real and she's trying to make him a part of the cast again b creating drama around him
This lashing out at Tai? creating drama with the protaganist's friend/boss is an excellent way to gain time in the strip.
It's all a very clever ruse to steal control from Jeph

Warning - while you were thinking of zany hijinks more suited to a strip with little to no fourth wall a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review the mood of the forum and be serious.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 04 Mar 2015, 16:13
In the former case, I can see Faye coming home to find Marten trying to comfort a crying Dora. They call Tai and the two drive off together to have the long-overdue talk about their relationship and their future together.

In the latter case, I have a nightmare image of Marten being awoken at a very late hour by Tai on the 'phone. "Uh... Marty...? Could... could you come to the Emergency Room...? I... I came to see Dora to try to talk things over... She... She's been cutting and I think she hit something important... There was blood everywhere and... Please... Please, Marty, I need someone I know here right now..."

Next week on QC, shocking revelations about Faye's real father, Hannelore's evil clone returns to finish the job, and Marten receives another call from the hospital...

STEVE: "Marten, I--I don't have much time.  The nurse is saying it's time to go.  I had to talk to you before--before it happens."
MARTEN: "Steve..."
STEVE: "No, don't say anything.  Listen, man, if I don't make it out of this--"
MARTEN: "Steve..."
STEVE: "No, LISTEN! Take care of my girl for me, Marten.  I love you like a brother, man, and you're the only one I know can make her happy--"
MARTEN: "STEVE!"
STEVE: "WHAT?!"
MARTEN: "IT'S JUST A COLONOSCOPY!"

And more!  Don't forget to tune in next week for more exciting stories on...QUESTIONABLE CONTENT!

Brought to you by Hot Pockets.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 04 Mar 2015, 16:26
In the former case, I can see Faye coming home to find Marten trying to comfort a crying Dora. They call Tai and the two drive off together to have the long-overdue talk about their relationship and their future together.

In the latter case, I have a nightmare image of Marten being awoken at a very late hour by Tai on the 'phone. "Uh... Marty...? Could... could you come to the Emergency Room...? I... I came to see Dora to try to talk things over... She... She's been cutting and I think she hit something important... There was blood everywhere and... Please... Please, Marty, I need someone I know here right now..."

Next week on QC, shocking revelations about Faye's real father, Hannelore's evil clone returns to finish the job, and Marten receives another call from the hospital...

STEVE: "Marten, I--I don't have much time.  The nurse is saying it's time to go.  I had to talk to you before--before it happens."
MARTEN: "Steve..."
STEVE: "No, don't say anything.  Listen, man, if I don't make it out of this--"
MARTEN: "Steve..."
STEVE: "No, LISTEN! Take care of my girl for me, Marten.  I love you like a brother, man, and you're the only one I know can make her happy--"
MARTEN: "STEVE!"
STEVE: "WHAT?!"
MARTEN: "IT'S JUST A COLONOSCOPY!"

And more!  Don't forget to tune in next week for more exciting stories on...QUESTIONABLE CONTENT!

Brought to you by Hot Pockets.

And we come full circle, ladies and gentlemen... From alcoholism to goatse references and back again.

Mmm!  Hot Pockets.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 04 Mar 2015, 16:33
While I too would inherently like questions to be answered instead of being left ambiguous, Claire's physical/biological status is ultimately trivial and of no material importance to the plot.

Humans are curious by nature. Just live with that fact and move on now.....
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Elder Sign on 04 Mar 2015, 17:13
While I too would inherently like questions to be answered instead of being left ambiguous, Claire's physical/biological status is ultimately trivial and of no material importance to the plot.

Humans are curious by nature. Just live with that fact and move on now.....

Did I not just admit as much myself in the exact same sentence you just quoted?

I really don't care and can't control what people debate on here, on Tumblr, on 4chan or [insert hipsters' mass flavour-of-the-month medium].  I just don't think that the subject matters, nor that it should matter in the first place, if we ever want to get to the truly progressive societal end result that we supposedly want to get to.

Characters' actions, reactions, choices, personalities, attitudes, consequences on the plot, etc. are all very valid and applicable questions and issues to pursue.  The specifics of their genitalia are not.  In this forum's case, the mods have strict rules on appropriate and inappropriate discussion topics for good reasons, which generally boil down to sparing everyone more trouble than the subjects in question are worth.  Don't like it?  Take it up with them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 17:20
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Traptin on 04 Mar 2015, 17:28
To be honest, in comic 2897 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2897), it feels to me like Dora is rationalising, Faye being fired, to herself. Which means that she does have some guilt and doubt over this. Personally I do think it is a no-brainer to fire Faye after such a thing and Dora did kinda warn Faye here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2867) and she were also clear with the rules (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1720), so she had to fire Faye. On the other hand, the one firing Faye was Boss Dora, not Friend Dora* (who we can see here: 2676 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2676) ) I am sad that Dora was not able to let go of her boss persona in comic 2886 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2886) and went inside to check up on Faye herself. She does look sad and stuff though, but still. One of her closest friends was close to die. Maybe it is guilt and some kind of embarrassment that hindered her to go inside.

On another note, I wonder if Faye will blackmail Dora (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2522) now when she got fired. :angel:

*Admittedly, it could be seen as a good move from a friend as well. That is up for debate.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 04 Mar 2015, 17:30
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 17:32
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

Then there's a pair of us — don't tell! They'd banish us, you know.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: MooskiNet on 04 Mar 2015, 17:32
I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

I think maybe you're confusing pushing the boundaries of sanity with dumbness. 

You ain't dumb, is what I'm sayin'.   

The other thing?  Yeah, you're that, alright.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 04 Mar 2015, 17:34
It amuses me that lately we always seem to swing back around to the subject of ambiguous genitalia, regardless of the subject of the latest comic.

For my money, I liked Dora a lot more earlier on in the strip, especially when she and Marten were heading into the highs of their relationship. I still like her, as I like all of the characters (Hanners and Sven being my top two, although Sven's confession to Faye didn't quite seem to fit his character - he may be self centred, but I would argue that he's no more selfish than most of the other characters.), but it seems to me that her control issues have actually been getting worse, not better, of late.

I like that the humour's back on form, though :D
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 04 Mar 2015, 17:40
*5 months from now*

"You know what! Every in the comic now has a fully functioning penis, and it'll be ATTACHED TO THEIR FACE, I'm sick of this shit!" - Jeph
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: K1dmor on 04 Mar 2015, 17:40
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

 (http://i.imgur.com/UZbiTx0.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Mar 2015, 17:44
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

Add me to the dumb pile. I say metric shittons of stupid shit on a daily basis.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Traptin on 04 Mar 2015, 17:46
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

Add me to the dumb pile. I say metric shittons of stupid shit on a daily basis.

I googled pictures of goatse, so I qualify to the intellectual reserve as well! :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 04 Mar 2015, 17:52
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

Then there's a pair of us — don't tell! They'd banish us, you know.

"To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge."
- Socrates

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
- Confucius

"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
- Isaac Asimov
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 18:01
There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

Then there's a pair of us — don't tell! They'd banish us, you know.

"To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge."
- Socrates

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
- Confucius

"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
- Isaac Asimov

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 04 Mar 2015, 18:37
All we need to say about Dora's actions - and the likely last word on (today's) comic that we'll have - is exactly what Jeph said in the news post:

"You idiot."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 04 Mar 2015, 18:41
I'm wondering -- could Dora put herself in the hospital through a combination of exhaustion (from taking over Faye's hours) and something like tonsillitis or walking pneumonia? Afaik she's never had a history of cutting or ED but overworking herself is something that's not only part of her character, it's the part that is both her virtue and vice.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 04 Mar 2015, 18:47
I feel the snark coming on. I shall attempt to suppress it...

Is everyone criticizing Dora and Tai's handling of that conversation a perfect being or something? Because, aside from how unnatural the dialogue lite thing feels after 10+ years of QC, the flow of that fail felt perfectly natural. Two humans who think they are both on the same subject, but aren't. And it's not clear that they weren't until someone gets hurt.

They both deserve a little slack. From each other and from the Statler and Waldorf seats.

There aren't a lot of dumb people here ...

Ahem *raises hand*

I know, I thought it was kinda mean for him to do that to us dumb people. We may be the minority, but we are proud people!

 (http://i.imgur.com/UZbiTx0.jpg)

Umm... I hate to be the one who has to explain this, but valkgrrl and explicit are incapable of speech. You gotta be careful with those able-ist words ;Ţ

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: DrBear on 04 Mar 2015, 18:54
 A quick reminder:
The problem isn't things we don't know, it's things we know that just ain't so.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Mar 2015, 19:23
I feel the snark coming on. I shall attempt to suppress it...

Is everyone criticizing Dora and Tai's handling of that conversation a perfect being or something? Because, aside from how unnatural the dialogue lite thing feels after 10+ years of QC, the flow of that fail felt perfectly natural. Two humans who think they are both on the same subject, but aren't. And it's not clear that they weren't until someone gets hurt.

They both deserve a little slack. From each other and from the Statler and Waldorf seats.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they're not allowed to be imperfect. Everyone is just reacting to the latest development and giving their two cents on the situation. Since Jeph titled the comic "Dummy" and added the commentary "You idiot" in the news post, and given the subject matter, it only makes sense that we discuss the mistake, who's in the wrong, whether they still had a point, and so on.

I'd say the reaction is more "Whoa, you messed up there, Dora", rather than "How dare you mess up and not be perfect, Dora!". On the other side, there's the consideration of "Well, that probably wasn't the best approach, Tai...", not "You awful person Tai, you totally deserve to get your head bitten off!". From the majority of people involved in the discussion, at any rate.

Also, the fact that we aren't perfect beings doesn't invalidate any criticism of the characters, or commentary on their actions. Besides, I think there's actually been a good amount of balance and fair assessment in the discussion so far.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 04 Mar 2015, 19:30
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 19:42
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

I looked into that philosopher you quoted, Morpheus, and you’re right, “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.” but as it turns out “Some things do change.”
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 04 Mar 2015, 19:49
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

I looked into that philosopher you quoted, Morpheus, and you’re right, “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.” but as it turns out “Some things do change.”

But you are forgetting that all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 04 Mar 2015, 19:50
Comic's up. Have to admit, Marigold's version of events would've made for an interesting storyline.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: HannahRose on 04 Mar 2015, 19:51
Marigold is terrible at being a friend.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Mar 2015, 19:52
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

I looked into that philosopher you quoted, Morpheus, and you’re right, “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.” but as it turns out “Some things do change.”

But you are forgetting that all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
I should try and say something deep and intelligent here.
...
...
...
... There is no spoon?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Mar 2015, 19:54
Technically speaking, the mistake was avoidable, though the fact the characters were unable to avoid it certainly does not make them bad people. The reasons why the mistake couldn't be avoided are also being discussed here; reasons that are not incomprehensible or unsympathetic, but issues the character needs to deal with nevertheless.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Mar 2015, 19:58
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

I looked into that philosopher you quoted, Morpheus, and you’re right, “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.” but as it turns out “Some things do change.”

But you are forgetting that all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

To quote Badger, "That only matters to the people on the outer rim!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 04 Mar 2015, 20:00
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

I looked into that philosopher you quoted, Morpheus, and you’re right, “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.” but as it turns out “Some things do change.”

But you are forgetting that all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

So say we all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 20:04
I appear to have been unclear in my thesis:

The discussion of the mistake generally hinges upon the basic thesis that the mistake was avoidable.

My argument is that it was not. To qote the philosopher Morpheus, "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

I looked into that philosopher you quoted, Morpheus, and you’re right, “What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way.” but as it turns out “Some things do change.”

But you are forgetting that all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

So say we all.

Valar morghulis
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 04 Mar 2015, 20:04
Sexy Fairy Man looks super engaging.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Near Lurker on 04 Mar 2015, 20:06
My father tells me one of the most important skills to learn is always being able to repeat back two sentences whether you've heard them or not.

(My father may genuinely be a sitcom dad.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Mar 2015, 20:08
Marigold is terrible at being a friend.

To be fair, her account of things would've made for some interesting storylines, too.

Meanwhile, in an Alternate!Universe...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 04 Mar 2015, 20:09

That man is a genius!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 04 Mar 2015, 20:14
Well, I still say Dora was in the wrong when she fired Marten, especially after that bear maimed Faye.  How will her lingering guilt over these developments affect her new relationship with Claire?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 04 Mar 2015, 20:18
Well, I still say Dora was in the wrong when she fired Marten, especially after that bear maimed Faye.  How will her lingering guilt over these developments affect her new relationship with Claire?

AND her feelings about Claire being an x-men style mutant.... Let's not forget that little relationship hurdle!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 04 Mar 2015, 20:21
AND her feelings about Claire being an x-men style mutant.... Let's not forget that little relationship hurdle!

Look, the question of whether Claire's wings are flight-capable or just vestigial is entirely between her and Dora and none of our business, okay?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 20:22
Well, I still say Dora was in the wrong when she fired Marten, especially after that bear maimed Faye.  How will her lingering guilt over these developments affect her new relationship with Claire?

AND her feelings about Claire being an x-men style mutant.... Let's not forget that little relationship hurdle!

The theme of the comic is that it shouldn't matter to anyone if Claire is a member of the Ex-Men.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 04 Mar 2015, 20:28
Marigold is terrible at being a friend.

Not necessarily. Marigold is a bit of an idiot when it comes to social interaction, she still hasn't twigged that when someone is talking to you, you do the polite thing and listen to them, you pay attention. Marigold is, in some ways, one of the most emotionally stunted people in the comic. Unless it directly affects her, she isn't really going to pay attention.

As it is, I imagine that beyond Momo and Dale, Hanners is the only real friend she has (especially with Angus having moved). That is no doubt affecting her, perhaps causing Marigold to retreat into herself and she mightn't actually care about hearing the latest escapades of Marten, Claire, Dora and Faye right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: neurocase on 04 Mar 2015, 20:30
I try to like Marigold, I really do. The fanbase generally seems to like her, Jeph has mentioned at one point that he's her favorite character...but then she pulls shit like this. I know it's meant for comedy, but she's evolved from "sort of endearing social recluse making something of an effort" to "complacent, petulant, self-centered womanchild (manchild is a thing, so why not womanchild?) who doesn't particularly give a rats ass about anyone but herself"

A few sweet moments with Momo isn't enough to sell me on her, and it's strips like this that reenforce why.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 04 Mar 2015, 20:34
Well, I still say Dora was in the wrong when she fired Marten, especially after that bear maimed Faye.  How will her lingering guilt over these developments affect her new relationship with Claire?

AND her feelings about Claire being an x-men style mutant.... Let's not forget that little relationship hurdle!

The theme of the comic is that it shouldn't matter to anyone if Claire is a member of the Ex-Men.

Didn't think of that possible interpretation when I wrote that... Now I feel kinda foolish.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 20:40
Didn't think of that possible interpretation when I wrote that... Now I feel kinda foolish.
It's a very old joke there's no reason for you to be familiar with it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 04 Mar 2015, 20:42
It's a very old joke there's no reason for you to be familiar with it.

Perhaps Marten's mother, famous Vaudeville comedienne Veronica Marx (now retired), could explain?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Near Lurker on 04 Mar 2015, 20:54
Well, one fine morning, late at night...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: celticgeek on 04 Mar 2015, 20:55
Rained all night the day I left, the weather it was dry...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Meilu on 04 Mar 2015, 20:55
Bad trans jokes in the forum, blah.

Seems every character is a shadow of themselves lately. I'm frustrated with the whole thing, maybe I'll break for awhile and play catch-up later. Like when I get a computer after a few months years.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 04 Mar 2015, 21:01
I try to like Marigold, I really do. The fanbase generally seems to like her, Jeph has mentioned at one point that he's her favorite character...but then she pulls shit like this. I know it's meant for comedy, but she's evolved from "sort of endearing social recluse making something of an effort" to "complacent, petulant, self-centered womanchild (manchild is a thing, so why not womanchild?) who doesn't particularly give a rats ass about anyone but herself"

A few sweet moments with Momo isn't enough to sell me on her, and it's strips like this that reenforce why.

Eh... You see a complacent, petulant, self-centered woman-child, I see an introvert who really doesn't know much about these other people her friend is talking about. Yes, she's met them, but Marigold really hasn't interacted with the gang much. From her point of view, she's there to spend time with her friend Hanners - not talk about Hanners other friends.

Some people would much rather talk about ideas than people and others prefer interaction through games rather than direct conversation. I am, for one, not a great conversationalist unless you get me on a subject that I'm passionate about. I really don't like talking about other people... maybe Marigold is the same way?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 21:01
Bad trans jokes in the forum, blah.

If it makes you feel better I'm ashamed of myself for using a joke older than I am.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 04 Mar 2015, 21:06
Just from an introverted hermits point of view (which I am. No seriously, I'm a super hermit).

Sometimes when friends hang out, we don't JUST sit around and hang. Like maybe I'll be playing a game while they read through some of my TTRPG books or maybe my wife and a friend are playing a 2 player board game while I grab a snack. We don't know exactly the context of what was going on before Hanners started talking. There are PLENTY of times where I'm reading something, playing something, etc, and someone starts talking to me and it takes me a minute to catch up to the fact that I didn't hear a word they said because I was already in the middle of something else.

... Now usually I also admit that I had no idea what they said, but there is an urge to try and cover before you just accept this will happen. Because extroverted people sometimes feel like you should immediately drop everything you are doing and pay attention to them the moment they open their mouths. That being said, I don't think Hanners is the type to do this. If Marigold had said "oh sorry, I was distraced, what were you saying?" I'm sure Hanners wouldn't have been annoyed at all.

So basically, I get why Marigold did that, and its not "being a woman-child" its being a really introverted person and possibly a lack of context of how the conversation started and being defensive because some people really do react badly to the fact the world doesn't revolve around them (even though I don't think Hanners is one of those people)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 04 Mar 2015, 21:12
I thought it was a funny strip, not least because of the implicit contrast between these forums where every nuance of every interaction is picked over endlessly, versus Marigold, who's actually living in the midst of this drama, and can't be bothered to keep up with it even vaguely. I think this is Jeph's way of telling us all to get a life.

I also love the fact that Marbear's apartment has those cheesy roll-up shades in the windows. Haven't seen those since the house I grew up in.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Mar 2015, 21:15
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/overstimulated.png)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 04 Mar 2015, 21:27
I'll agree with the woman-child thing and haven't really liked Marigold since that time she ditched Dale.

But todays just a cute comic and in her defense she is reading a manga about butts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zog on 04 Mar 2015, 21:28

The Report to Moderator button is 100% justified in cases like the jerk upthread. If you're new and not sure when to use it, that situation was a good example.


Thank you. I hovered over the button a few times when the post was new, then decided  that maybe  I was overreacting.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 04 Mar 2015, 21:33
Well, I still say Dora was in the wrong when she fired Marten, especially after that bear maimed Faye.  How will her lingering guilt over these developments affect her new relationship with Claire?

AND her feelings about Claire being an x-men style mutant.... Let's not forget that little relationship hurdle!

The theme of the comic is that it shouldn't matter to anyone if Claire is a member of the Ex-Men.

Didn't think of that possible interpretation when I wrote that... Now I feel kinda foolish.

Oh, that passed right over my head when I read it.  My bad.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 04 Mar 2015, 21:36
As a hermit and introvert (I have not spoken to a friend in over 3 weeks. I have not seen a friend in over 5 months. I have not spoken to anyone outside of commercial transactions in that time), I can say that Marigold is being an ass.

Admittedly, she's awkward enough that she probably is unaware of that, but she has invited an friend into her home and proceeded to read tiny hentai while that friend is attempting to engage her.

Context unknown, if you really just what to read tiny hentai, you don't invite friends over. If friends show up unexpectedly, you either have vaginal fortitude to tell them it is tiny hentai time, or you put the book down and welcome them into this slice of your life. No matter how rude the other party ma have been in not providing warning, once you let them in, you have taken responsibility.

That said, Faye Whitaker burned down a building, terrorized her friends to the point where they seem to have PTSD with regard to her, and had hot makeouts on Hanners's couch. Faye has not been abandoned by Hannelore (or incarcerated), so I expect Hanners is going to be able to deal with Marigold too.

In fact, the only friend Hanners seems to have who isn't a repeated challenge to her abilities is Marten... at least on Earth.

I'm an introvert and a hermit because there aren't enough actual Martens and Hannelores in the world. I don't even know if I'm difficult to put up with.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 04 Mar 2015, 21:50
I'll agree with the woman-child thing and haven't really liked Marigold since that time she ditched Dale.

But todays just a cute comic and in her defense she is reading a manga about butts.

Plus, if you're outside the drama, it's got to feel like "same shit, different day" .... "Oh wow, Claire and Marten are finally dating? Faye finally got fired for drinking? Dora's still pushing people away? Color me surprised!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 04 Mar 2015, 21:53
It's not the fact that she's a Hermit and a bit Introverted here, it's the fact that she's not really paying attention to Hanners here.

Ya know, this is becoming something of a theme lately.

I hope Jeph's not getting into a rut.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 04 Mar 2015, 22:03
Less a rut and more like covering in 6 months what he could have covered in 3. Two, except there was this whole decent into alcohol induced emergency involved.

Marigold as "bad friend" is a gun Jeph hung on the wall a while ago. It's the nature of this new beast that it takes a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooong time for the dots to connect. Alos, given his semi-seat-of-the-pants production style, it's equally likely that he might forget he's already covered something, feel it's been so long that he needs to refresh the reader, or just abandon the plot.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 04 Mar 2015, 22:10
I try to like Marigold, I really do. The fanbase generally seems to like her, Jeph has mentioned at one point that he's her favorite character...but then she pulls shit like this. I know it's meant for comedy, but she's evolved from "sort of endearing social recluse making something of an effort" to "complacent, petulant, self-centered womanchild (manchild is a thing, so why not womanchild?) who doesn't particularly give a rats ass about anyone but herself"

A few sweet moments with Momo isn't enough to sell me on her, and it's strips like this that reenforce why.

Eh... You see a complacent, petulant, self-centered woman-child, I see an introvert who really doesn't know much about these other people her friend is talking about. Yes, she's met them, but Marigold really hasn't interacted with the gang much. From her point of view, she's there to spend time with her friend Hanners - not talk about Hanners other friends.

Some people would much rather talk about ideas than people and others prefer interaction through games rather than direct conversation. I am, for one, not a great conversationalist unless you get me on a subject that I'm passionate about. I really don't like talking about other people... maybe Marigold is the same way?

I'm as introverted as they come, but I don't chalk her behavior up to introversion in this case. It's just self-centered. People talk to me about things I find dull all the time, but I listen, because that's what you do when you're talking with a friend (and because God knows, their eyes probably glaze over when I get going about things I find interesting, but they humor me anyway). She can't even be bothered to make a halfway decent show of listening.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 04 Mar 2015, 22:23
If you think Faye looks bad you should see the bear!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 04 Mar 2015, 22:37
Hm. I think Jeph may be using this week to refresh us on how many plot threads are being juggled right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 04 Mar 2015, 23:00
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Mar 2015, 23:02
It bears mentioning that disliking Marigold's attitude and behaviour, and finding today's strip amusing aren't mutually exclusive. I found myself thinking "Oh, Marigold...", but the joke also made me smile.

Also, it occurs to me that I could've chosen to use a word other than "bears", which makes it sound like I'm awkwardly trying to make a terrible pun based on today's strip. Oh well, too late to change it now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 04 Mar 2015, 23:10
Also, it occurs to me that I could've chosen to use a word other than "bears", which makes it sound like I'm awkwardly trying to make a terrible pun based on today's strip.

Don't fight it.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Mar 2015, 23:19
Also, it occurs to me that I could've chosen to use a word other than "bears", which makes it sound like I'm awkwardly trying to make a terrible pun based on today's strip.

Don't fight it.  :claireface:

You're right, I shouldn't be grizzly about it. Henceforth, my attitude will be the polar opposite!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 23:24

Also, it occurs to me that I could've chosen to use a word other than "bears", which makes it sound like I'm awkwardly trying to make a terrible pun based on today's strip. Oh well, too late to change it now.

One of us! One of us!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Y on 04 Mar 2015, 23:25
She seems to be zoned into her book, and she might not have known Hanners was telling something serious. Or perhaps she can't handle drama very well.

I do seem to have problems sometimes remembering what people said seconds after they said it. Covering it up seems to come natural as you don't wan't to look unreliable.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Mar 2015, 23:38
Okay, Hanners? This is the moment that you're allowed to hit her!

In Marigold's defence, of all the recurring cast, she knows the core characters the least and has the weakest connections with them. It's hard to focus on the troubles of strangers. Is this Jeph's way of reminding us that, outside of their circle, the characters' travails are very small and trivial?

I feel that I have to say "mea culpa" here. I know someone who insists on telling me about the drama of her work colleagues' lives - a group of strangers whom I have never met. It's easy to blank out and either focus on things that do interest you or change the subject as soon as possible. The thing is, it's really rude and I would hate it if (and when) it happens to me. I've thus trained myself to at least listen and treat it as something important to someone close to me.

Marigold...? Well, she's demonstrated that she's bad at empathy and has outright told Momo that she would do something mean and selfish without even being fully aware of what she is doing. I'm not sure if that is a result of her lack of socialisation or if she's just a self-centered person who needs to be motivated to change a character flaw about which she is fully aware.


Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

No matter how much she complains about it, she is generous with her time when friends need her help.

Apart from that, she's just sweet because of her social awkwardness but I think few of us would necessarily tolerate her bad qualities IRL.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Nepiophage on 05 Mar 2015, 00:12
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Panel 4 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2509)


Global Moderator Comment That is sailing close to the wind Nepiophage.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: anahata on 05 Mar 2015, 00:13
I think we're all taking Marigold's attitude a bit too seriously here. Being too absorbed in a book to listen to what someone is saying is fairly typical for Marigold, and the dialogue feels to me to be just a bit of comic relief. Nice to have a bit of a that off-the-wall old QC style, too.

Also this strip brings back Marigold, who we haven't seen for quite a while. We're surely due for a series of reintroductions of other recently absent members of the cast.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Mar 2015, 00:17
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Honest, brave, hardworking, good to Momo almost always, friendly to Hannelore despite having to improvise the whole concept.

Previous discussion (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24813.0.html).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 05 Mar 2015, 00:31
It's all just hidden behind poor social skills.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 05 Mar 2015, 01:01
.....dammit, now I wanna see Dora/Claire ship. Thanks Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 05 Mar 2015, 01:13
They can be serious about work together.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 05 Mar 2015, 01:13
well done marigold. i would like to say that the idea Hannelore  is allowed to hit marigold for not listening is nonsense and should be withrdrawn.
the way mr. Jacques draws the anger and potential cruelty in Hannelore's eyes for the last panel is, I think, one of his best recent pieces of work.
and the strip is funny. today is a good qc day.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 05 Mar 2015, 01:27
They can be serious about work together.

If Dora doesn't kill Claire over her punnyness first.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: snubnose on 05 Mar 2015, 01:30
.....dammit, now I wanna see Dora/Claire ship. Thanks Jeph.
:?

Jeph cant help it if you're THAT easily influenceable.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Mar 2015, 01:36
the way mr. Jacques draws the anger and potential cruelty in Hannelore's eyes for the last panel is, I think, one of his best recent pieces of work.

You are a very, very strange person.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 05 Mar 2015, 01:51
Maybe I just have a different type of friend, but if someone shows up at my house, I generally don't think its my responsibility to entertain them. Its one thing if plans were made and all that jazz, but this doesn't see like that is the situation here. I take my me time seriously. I actually stayed downstairs one time when we had unexpected visitors and my wife hung out with them. I just stayed in bed and said I had a migraine. There are times when I just can't be around people.

And if I was reading something when they came in, I probably wouldn't immediately put it down just because they got there. Granted, I might have more random junk around my house for friends to pick up and thumb through than Marigold has (my main social hobbies are board games and ttrpgs, and different friends will be looking through those). And I had another friend who would sit on a chair on her laptop while I sat on the couch with mine, and we would occasionally say something to each other, which one of us might miss if we had been in the middle of reading something.

We don't know enough context. Did they make plans to hang out that day? Did Hanners interrupt her day that Marigold had planned to recharge in order to tell her all about the drama of people she isn't that close with?

If its the first one, then yeah, Marigold is being kind of a dick. If its the second one, Marigold is trying to accommodate a friend who showed up, but has her own needs as well, and that is conflicting.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Mar 2015, 02:29
Seriously, I think that Hannelore needs some help and support. One of her few human friends has just nearly drunk herself to death, been fired and is clearly in a bad place, emotionally. On top of her very clear pain at Faye no longer being a daily part of her working life, Hannelore has had to deal with said friend's peevish moods and general unhappiness for the past day whilst Marten was at work. She did a good job but it would be understandable if she needed some help herself after having to support Faye and help her keep focussed all day.

So, yeah, she went to her one friend who was likely not directly affected by this drama to vent and maybe get some emotional support. Unfortunately, Marigold isn't good at that... in fact she stinks at that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: anahata on 05 Mar 2015, 02:37
It never occurred to me that was a cry for help from Hanners. But Marigold would the the last person to recognise that or to know what to do about it.

Where's Momo with her social protocol database to spell it out in words of one syllable for her?
(at work, I suppose)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 05 Mar 2015, 03:08
Yea, i can sympathize with Hannelore's position here.

my partner is a great girl, creative, kind, but my god she cannot empathize to save her life. example in case, i was on the train to see her, the station i was due to arrive at was closed, i text to say i'll be delayed. 2 hours later i am still trying to get through london, i text her appologizing for the lateness and bemoaning the travel situation. all i get back is a next from her complaining that a shirt she got for Christmas doesn't fit right.
i'm trying to make her more aware of the fact without seeming pushy or demanding.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 05 Mar 2015, 03:39
Yea, i can sympathize with Hannelore's position here.

my partner is a great girl, creative, kind, but my god she cannot empathize to save her life. example in case, i was on the train to see her, the station i was due to arrive at was closed, i text to say i'll be delayed. 2 hours later i am still trying to get through london, i text her appologizing for the lateness and bemoaning the travel situation. all i get back is a next from her complaining that a shirt she got for Christmas doesn't fit right.
i'm trying to make her more aware of the fact without seeming pushy or demanding.

another way to look at that is that she didn't mind you being late, and if she's familiar with London, (not just London really, the whole of the uk has bad public transport), and it's transport issues she probably wasn't even surprised that you were going to be late.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 05 Mar 2015, 04:02
I just don't think that the subject matters, nor that it should matter in the first place, if we ever want to get to the truly progressive societal end result that we supposedly want to get to.

And in the process, you've just displayed why relationships fail; it's because people don't open themselves up and keep things secret, which in turn, causes miscommunication......like what just happened with Tai & Dora. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 04:42
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Honest, brave, hardworking, good to Momo almost always, friendly to Hannelore despite having to improvise the whole concept.

Previous discussion (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24813.0.html).

Wait, would that be Marigold proper or her WoW character? I mean, to be fair, we've seen counterexamples to all those adjectives, and while it's true that she's displayed them from time to time, they hardly seem like actual traits so much as situational flukes. I mean, I've been brave a few times, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm primarily a weak, milquetoast sack of shit.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 05 Mar 2015, 04:45
I try to like Marigold, I really do. The fanbase generally seems to like her, Jeph has mentioned at one point that he's her favorite character...but then she pulls shit like this. I know it's meant for comedy, but she's evolved from "sort of endearing social recluse making something of an effort" to "complacent, petulant, self-centered womanchild (manchild is a thing, so why not womanchild?) who doesn't particularly give a rats ass about anyone but herself"

A few sweet moments with Momo isn't enough to sell me on her, and it's strips like this that reenforce why.

Indeed.  Out of all of the strip characters, she is the only one I really see nothing positive in.  Except maybe that she sometimes tries to be a good person.  Or rather, at one point tried.  And I'm saying this as a socially awkward introvert.  She reminds me of all of the wince-worthy qualities I had when I was at maximum awkwardness, without being leavened with things like...I dunno...intellectual interests, deep levels of concern for the few friends you have, etc. 

I hope Dale get's sick of her and moves on at some point, as he's a great example of a socially awkward introvert with a lot of redeeming qualities.  Honestly, I mildly ship Dale and Dora.  They're both hyper-responsible people, and would seem to make a very stable match. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 05 Mar 2015, 05:07
You know, todays page got me thinking? when has Marigold ever met claire?

the lake house, where Marigold spent more time playing Nes than socializing?

i honestly don't remember them meeting other than then
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Mar 2015, 05:20
You know, todays page got me thinking? when has Marigold ever met claire?

She might know Claire on sight as one of Momo's co-workers but that's it.

Marigold probably knows Marten as Pintsize's room-mate (she's rebooted him for Marten at least once) and Momo's co-worker and Dora as Dale's boss. Faye she'd probably know a bit better as Angus's ex. However, given the whole unrequited crush on Angus thing and the fact that Faye and Angus had a pretty traumatic break-up, she might be less than interested in Faye's problems.

Hannelore is  the only real close personal connection between the core cast and Marigold, who is mostly an outer part of the CoD circle (Dale's GF and Hannelore's bestie).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 05:22
You know, todays page got me thinking? when has Marigold ever met claire?

She might know Claire on sight as one of Momo's co-workers but that's it.

Marigold probably knows Marten as Pintsize's room-mate (she's rebooted him for Marten at least once) and Momo's co-worker and Dora as Dale's boss. Faye she'd probably know a bit better as Angus's ex. However, given the whole unrequited crush on Angus thing and the fact that Faye and Angus had a pretty traumatic break-up might leave her less than interested in Faye's problems. Hannelore is  the only real close personal connection between the core cast and Marigold, who is mostly an outer part of the CoD circle (Dale's GF and Hannelore's bestie).


I dunno, Marten was pretty integral to the process of getting Marigold out of the apartment and into some storylines that made her a (very overrated, IMHO) breakout character for awhile. Remember him going "all beer mentor" on her at the Revelation, for instance? This was before Hannelore/Marigold became the strip's resident Oscar/Felix.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Lubricus on 05 Mar 2015, 05:24
Marten and Marigold also went to friggin' SPACE together!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 05:26
Marten and Marigold also went to friggin' SPACE together!

That's right! Marten is indirectly responsible for Marigold's introduction to the magical world of wiener-touching!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 05 Mar 2015, 05:40
Marigold has hung out with the gang at Marten's apartment before, and the Coffee of Doom is or was one of the few places she would go to and hang out when she wasn't at home. She may not be close friends with most of the cast, but they are not strangers to her.

I am beginning to find the conversations around the comics rather disheartening. Either we have a bunch of strips where people are being cute and squee-worthy and many people complain that it's to much, the characters are to flat and there is no dramatic tension. Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Lubricus on 05 Mar 2015, 05:45
Well, you shouldn't have swallowed your hands in the first place!  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: War Sparrow on 05 Mar 2015, 05:48
I kind of see the last few strips as a "communication is important for relationships!" PSA. Marten and Claire have healthy communication, and all is unicorns and rainbows. Dora and Tai did not communicate well(for which both are at fault) and now Marigold and Hannelore(In which Marigold is being a bit rude. I've had friends where we pretty much do our own thing, but if one of us is actually trying to engage in conversation, the other makes a point to listen.)

Now, I really like Marigold, as awkward and childish as she is. But I do hope Hannelore informs her on how she is being impolite. You don't need to care about other people's drama, but you should care about an upset friend.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 05 Mar 2015, 05:52
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Panel 4 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2509)

It's not funny to joke that a character's only good trait is their breasts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 06:02
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Panel 4 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2509)

It's not funny to joke that a character's only good trait is their breasts.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Marigold's "Homeric bosoms" have been a running joke practically since she was introduced. It's not like the OP just noted that they're drawn larger than other female characters' and is now the first to comment on it. This was as lighthearted a joke as they come, and only plays off of a gag that the author himself established.

If anyone believes that the original joke or my bland defense of same is misogynistic, I'd be happy to explain why I disagree but please refrain from allusions to fedoras and neck beards. I hate meninism and libertarianism too, but that joke is already staler than a gas station hot dog at closing time.

Global Moderator Comment Maybe so, and I've let it go as the joke I assume he meant it as, but there are, undoubtedly, some would see the comment as crass and unfunny.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 05 Mar 2015, 06:05
I am beginning to find the conversations around the comics rather disheartening. Either we have a bunch of strips where people are being cute and squee-worthy and many people complain that it's to much, the characters are to flat and there is no dramatic tension. Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.
I'm starting to get to this point myself.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 06:06
I am beginning to find the conversations around the comics rather disheartening. Either we have a bunch of strips where people are being cute and squee-worthy and many people complain that it's to much, the characters are to flat and there is no dramatic tension. Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.
I'm starting to get to this point myself.

Hardcore fandom is a double-edged sword.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 05 Mar 2015, 06:26

Hardcore fandom is a double-edged sword.

Double edged sword being a very famous hardcore.... oh wait that isn't what you mean is it?

Well, you shouldn't have swallowed your hands in the first place!  :claireface:

I hereby relinquish my 'worst joke of the thread' tiara to you.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 05 Mar 2015, 06:38
Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.

This forum, anytime someone says anything with potential for subtext in this comic:
(http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33900000/The-Nightmare-Before-Christmas-nightmare-before-christmas-33943888-500-254.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Mar 2015, 06:47
r. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.

To be fair,having a lot of people overanalyzing your comic is a sign that your comic is very successful. Most web comics don't get any comments at all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 05 Mar 2015, 06:55
I am beginning to find the conversations around the comics rather disheartening. Either we have a bunch of strips where people are being cute and squee-worthy and many people complain that it's to much, the characters are to flat and there is no dramatic tension. Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.
I'm starting to get to this point myself.
I always find myself defending characters, because it seems like every character has a hateclub ready to jump on them the moment they do anything even remotely not perfect.

I swear, if some of the people in the forum were as strict with the behavior of real life people as they are with QC characters, there is no way they actually still have friends.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TinPenguin on 05 Mar 2015, 06:57
If I was reading Sexy Fairy Men and someone started talking to me about townie drama I wouldn't be listening either.

Don't wake the sleep-walker. Don't distract the driver. Don't talk to the bookworm.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 07:05
If I was reading Sexy Fairy Men and someone started talking to me about townie drama I wouldn't be listening either.

Don't wake the sleep-walker. Don't distract the driver. Don't talk to the bookworm.

"Townie" in the context of Northampton is a pretty empty term, since it pretty much just means anyone who lives in that town and isn't part of the self-important, trust-fund-intensive Smith College bubble.

But more important than that, I think people are taking issue with Marigold's boorishness - in-character though it might be - not because she really needs to hear this stuff but because it's important to Hanners, who asks for so little. Not that it should come as any surprise, since Hanners has done basically all the heavy friendship lifting. I hope she "asserts [her]self" again tomorrow.

I mean, really, what has Marigold ever done for Hanners besides allowing her to watch a WoW raid while breathing in a cloud of beef jerky farts?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: dexeron on 05 Mar 2015, 07:20
I mean, really, what has Marigold ever done for Hanners besides allowing her to watch a WoW raid while breathing in a cloud of beef jerky farts?

She gave her (possibly terabytes of) sexy man pictures (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2664).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 05 Mar 2015, 07:21
"Townie" in the context of Northampton is a pretty empty term, since it pretty much just means anyone who lives in that town and isn't part of the self-important, trust-fund-intensive Smith College bubble.

Not really true.  Northampton is close enough to Amherst that many UMass grad students (and even some upperclassmen) choose to live there rather than Amherst.  Which makes sense, because Amherst is basically a big suburb with two semi-decent blocks. 

As for Marigold, I don't like her as a character at all, but I'm not saying she's poorly written, out of character, or that Jeph doesn't use her correctly in the strip in general (e.g., in her role as comic relief).  I'm just saying as a real human being, she would demonstrably suck. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 05 Mar 2015, 07:23
I wonder if Jeph is trying to set up an omnishambles in Marten and Claire's social circles - possibly as a direct "fuck you" to those who said there's too much squee.

Angus nudged Faye over the brink
Sven and Faye are pushing Dora over the brink
Faye and Marigold are pushing Hanners over the brink
Dora's now hurt Tai
Who knows what'll happen with Clinton and Emily
Dora being pushed over the brink will put further strain on Hanners, and strain on Penny and Cosette
Penny and Cosette being strained will affect Wil and Steve
Faye's also putting strain on Marten, and Tai will probably put strain on Claire somehow
Faye being fired will put strain on Sam, which may put strain on Jim, which may affect Veronica, Renee, and Elliott
Wil being strained may rub off on Elliott too
All of this relationship drama will rub off on Amir, too. And don't forget Clairemom, too.

There, every current character that lives or works in Northampton, affected negatively by the fallout of Angus breaking up with Faye.

Except for a certain Dr. Buenvenida. She's rolling in the kilobucks.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: dexeron on 05 Mar 2015, 07:34
Aside: so what is the meaning of those little stars that appear above some people's avatars?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 07:36
"Townie" in the context of Northampton is a pretty empty term, since it pretty much just means anyone who lives in that town and isn't part of the self-important, trust-fund-intensive Smith College bubble.

Not really true.  Northampton is close enough to Amherst that many UMass grad students (and even some upperclassmen) choose to live there rather than Amherst.  Which makes sense, because Amherst is basically a big suburb with two semi-decent blocks. 

As for Marigold, I don't like her as a character at all, but I'm not saying she's poorly written, out of character, or that Jeph doesn't use her correctly in the strip in general (e.g., in her role as comic relief).  I'm just saying as a real human being, she would demonstrably suck.

1st Paragraph: Agree to disagree. Having lived in both towns (Amherst for 3 years, NoHo for 2), I think trying to paint them as drastically different communities requires exaggeration. They're both small college towns surrounded by rural farmland. Downtown Northampton is marginally larger and has a slightly more vibrant, less bro-douchey vibe, but that's about it. And by Renee's standard - the only time the term "townie" has been explicitly used in comic, iirc - those Amherst transplants would be townies too.

2nd Paragraph: Totally agree. I'm not knocking Jeph's characterization. The only character I think of as a general is fire is May. I'm just saying, like you, that Marigold doesn't have a lot of redeeming qualities.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 07:38
I wonder if Jeph is trying to set up an omnishambles in Marten and Claire's social circles - possibly as a direct "fuck you" to those who said there's too much squee.

Angus nudged Faye over the brink
Sven and Faye are pushing Dora over the brink
Faye and Marigold are pushing Hanners over the brink
Dora's now hurt Tai
Who knows what'll happen with Clinton and Emily
Dora being pushed over the brink will put further strain on Hanners, and strain on Penny and Cosette
Penny and Cosette being strained will affect Wil and Steve
Faye's also putting strain on Marten, and Tai will probably put strain on Claire somehow
Faye being fired will put strain on Sam, which may put strain on Jim, which may affect Veronica, Renee, and Elliott
Wil being strained may rub off on Elliott too
All of this relationship drama will rub off on Amir, too. And don't forget Clairemom, too.

There, every current character that lives or works in Northampton, affected negatively by the fallout of Angus breaking up with Faye.

Except for a certain Dr. Buenvenida. She's rolling in the kilobucks.

I was thinking the same thing. We might be seeing a new era of QC, in which half a dozen relationships that were cultivated over nearly 3,000 strips will be at-best estranged for awhile. I'm all for it. And I bet #3,000 will be a god damn doozy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 05 Mar 2015, 07:40
Aside: so what is the meaning of those little stars that appear above some people's avatars?

They're rating your potential as a labourer for when they take over the world.

Gods, I'm screwed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 05 Mar 2015, 08:02
Aside: so what is the meaning of those little stars that appear above some people's avatars?

They relate to the number of posts you've made, but change less frequently than the descriptions immediately below your name (which are listed somewhere in the wiki).  Admins and mods get to have different symbols.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Mar 2015, 08:56
I was thinking the same thing. We might be seeing a new era of QC, in which half a dozen relationships that were cultivated over nearly 3,000 strips will be at-best estranged for awhile. I'm all for it. And I bet #3,000 will be a god damn doozy.

So you're thinking the endgame (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1620) is "everyone breaks up, then Jeph retires"?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 05 Mar 2015, 09:04
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Honest, brave, hardworking, good to Momo almost always, friendly to Hannelore despite having to improvise the whole concept.

Previous discussion (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,24813.0.html).

Delayed response, but, cheers. Honestly.

I know it was an awful question to ask, but it honestly has been confusing me for a while. I've been wondering what other people see in her that I simply haven't, and this has been wonderfully illuminating.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 09:10
Maybe I just have a different type of friend, but if someone shows up at my house, I generally don't think its my responsibility to entertain them. Its one thing if plans were made and all that jazz, but this doesn't see like that is the situation here. I take my me time seriously. I actually stayed downstairs one time when we had unexpected visitors and my wife hung out with them. I just stayed in bed and said I had a migraine. There are times when I just can't be around people.

And if I was reading something when they came in, I probably wouldn't immediately put it down just because they got there. Granted, I might have more random junk around my house for friends to pick up and thumb through than Marigold has (my main social hobbies are board games and ttrpgs, and different friends will be looking through those). And I had another friend who would sit on a chair on her laptop while I sat on the couch with mine, and we would occasionally say something to each other, which one of us might miss if we had been in the middle of reading something.

We don't know enough context. Did they make plans to hang out that day? Did Hanners interrupt her day that Marigold had planned to recharge in order to tell her all about the drama of people she isn't that close with?

If its the first one, then yeah, Marigold is being kind of a dick. If its the second one, Marigold is trying to accommodate a friend who showed up, but has her own needs as well, and that is conflicting.

Marigold is being kind of a dick in either case.

If a person shows up unexpected that person is rude up until the point the point you let them in. An invitation extended at the very last instance is still an invitation.

If you did not let them in, they are trespassing and possibly committing assault. Otherwise, they are your guest and you are responsible. The only out is if they are someone else's guest.

While it's possible to invoke some convoluted explanation to make this Momo's fault, I think that's extreme even for this forum.

Occam would be highly disappointed in you lot.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 05 Mar 2015, 09:13
While it's possible to invoke some convoluted explanation to make this Momo's fault, I think that's extreme even for this forum.

It's my fault, sorry guys. I'll try not to let it happen again (it will though).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 09:37
While it's possible to invoke some convoluted explanation to make this Momo's fault, I think that's extreme even for this forum.

It's my fault, sorry guys. I'll try not to let it happen again (it will though).

Do or do  not. There is no try.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Mar 2015, 09:40
I was thinking the same thing. We might be seeing a new era of QC, in which half a dozen relationships that were cultivated over nearly 3,000 strips will be at-best estranged for awhile. I'm all for it. And I bet #3,000 will be a god damn doozy.

So you're thinking the endgame (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1620) is "everyone breaks up, then Jeph retires"?
So then what's the opposite of a Hannelore realdoll? Because apparently that's what Jeph would get when he retires...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 05 Mar 2015, 09:41
I do not respect Yoda's advice, he was bad at strategery.

(YEAH I SAID IT)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 10:13
I am beginning to find the conversations around the comics rather disheartening. Either we have a bunch of strips where people are being cute and squee-worthy and many people complain that it's to much, the characters are to flat and there is no dramatic tension. Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.
I'm starting to get to this point myself.
I always find myself defending characters, because it seems like every character has a hateclub ready to jump on them the moment they do anything even remotely not perfect.

I swear, if some of the people in the forum were as strict with the behavior of real life people as they are with QC characters, there is no way they actually still have friends.

Depends on the character. Faye can be abrasive as hell, but she's also been a good friend to several in the cast when push came to shove. Dora's been tone-deaf in how she's handled her friends and family, but also gave both Sven and Faye several shots at getting it right before she ditched them. Marten's a nice guy who just happens to be a bit too chill and happens to put his foot halfway down his throat from time to time.

See a pattern yet? You can acknowledge that someone has their good points and acknowledge their flaws. Neither one makes the other impossible. But if you mention that Dora's made some boneheaded moves recently, for instance, without first laying out a litany of disclaimers as to her (non-existent) saintliness, everybody gets their noses out of joint.

And that's further complicated by Marigold, who's taken far more from nearly everyone she's encountered than she's given (the exception being Momo). Nobody's saying she's evil. She's just a lot more immature, selfish and self-centered than anybody over the age of twelve has any right to be, and to some of us, that joke isn't funny anymore... She's not the "worst person ever." God knows, I've known far worse. But her behavior is grating for the same reason that people like that in real life -- who won't do the bare minimum to maintain a friendship, and who only value what they can take from others -- are the kind of people that most of us wouldn't like, and would keep at arm's length if we had the chance.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 05 Mar 2015, 11:32
And that's further complicated by Marigold, who's taken far more from nearly everyone she's encountered than she's given (the exception being Momo). Nobody's saying she's evil. She's just a lot more immature, selfish and self-centered than anybody over the age of twelve has any right to be, and to some of us, that joke isn't funny anymore... She's not the "worst person ever." God knows, I've known far worse. But her behavior is grating for the same reason that people like that in real life -- who won't do the bare minimum to maintain a friendship, and who only value what they can take from others -- are the kind of people that most of us wouldn't like, and would keep at arm's length if we had the chance.

In a way I applaud Jeph for how he wrote Marigold.  The cliche thing to do is to appeal to introverted nerds by making the introverted nerd character someone with hidden depths which are waiting to burst out - a leavening of personality features (wit, empathy, intelligence, etc) which are not immediately visible because of how awkward they are with people they don't know.  Jeph inverted this expectation, by making Marigold, under her rough, defensive, unlikable exterior pretty unlikable on the inside as well. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Isyrion on 05 Mar 2015, 11:37
Damn Marigold you are playing with fire right now.  If Hanners was giving me that look I swear I would shit myself.  Marigold you might want to start listening.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 05 Mar 2015, 11:47
I am beginning to find the conversations around the comics rather disheartening. Either we have a bunch of strips where people are being cute and squee-worthy and many people complain that it's to much, the characters are to flat and there is no dramatic tension. Or there is some sort of drama going on, and everyone wants to rip all the characters involved to shreds, psychoanalyzing every comment and declaring that the characters are the Worst People Ever. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.
I'm starting to get to this point myself.
I always find myself defending characters, because it seems like every character has a hateclub ready to jump on them the moment they do anything even remotely not perfect.
I swear, if some of the people in the forum were as strict with the behavior of real life people as they are with QC characters, there is no way they actually still have friends.

I'm with you. I find all of the characters in QC likeable in one way or another, even with all their foibles. It's a lot like real life, in that way - real life isn't full of bad guys and good guys, just flawed people trying to do their best... succeeding sometimes and failing sometimes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 11:48
And that's further complicated by Marigold, who's taken far more from nearly everyone she's encountered than she's given (the exception being Momo). Nobody's saying she's evil. She's just a lot more immature, selfish and self-centered than anybody over the age of twelve has any right to be, and to some of us, that joke isn't funny anymore... She's not the "worst person ever." God knows, I've known far worse. But her behavior is grating for the same reason that people like that in real life -- who won't do the bare minimum to maintain a friendship, and who only value what they can take from others -- are the kind of people that most of us wouldn't like, and would keep at arm's length if we had the chance.

In a way I applaud Jeph for how he wrote Marigold.  The cliche thing to do is to appeal to introverted nerds by making the introverted nerd character someone with hidden depths which are waiting to burst out - a leavening of personality features (wit, empathy, intelligence, etc) which are not immediately visible because of how awkward they are with people they don't know.  Jeph inverted this expectation, by making Marigold, under her rough, defensive, unlikable exterior pretty unlikable on the inside as well.

Well, she's smart (i.e., book smart). But practically no common sense, empathy, or emotional intelligence. If it's pointed out to her that she's screwed up, she sometimes gets it. But this is far from the first time that Hanners has reached out to her looking for the same friendship or support that she's given, only to be met with a "What was the middle thing?"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 11:49
I'm doing this for illustrative purposes. My apologies for any confusion that may result, but using the quote tags would get tedious as hell:

"Depends on the character."
Man, you're wish washy. Pick a position already.

"Faye can be abrasive as hell,"
This is you projecting. Hell is probably very smooth.

"but she's also been a good friend to several in the cast when push came to shove."
But who was doing most of the pushing and shoving and punching and kicking...

"Dora's been tone-deaf in how she's handled her friends and family,"
What do you have against tone deaf people? I swear, the able-ism is thick...

"but also gave both Sven and Faye several shots at getting it right before she ditched them."
Pass

"Marten's a nice guy who just happens to be a bit too chill and happens to put his foot halfway down his throat from time to time."
Okay, seriously. People don't bend that way. It's not humanly possible without dislocation or hyper extension. And what does "halfway down his throat" even mean? Where is the throat's halfway point?

"See a pattern yet?"
Do you?

If it isn't clear, the issues aren't that there is no valid reason to criticize. It that people latch on to the the tiniest things and use them to expound upon their pet theories as to why character X is horrible, and it's actually quite annoying.

Marigold was not paying attention (why, we don't know), and she reacted by trying to do a thing most humans do when they feel guilty about not paying attention. This is primarily a set up for meaning salad joke.

I really do understand that 18 to 26 hours is a long time to wait for more data, and that speculation about what will happen next is what the forum is for. But it's a long way from "Marigold does her typical Marigold thing" to "Marigold is a horrible friend," to "This is the end of Hanners's relationship with Marigold," to "OMG, Jeph's burning all the bridges!"

Given the comic's lower information density, the level of analysis being thrown at at each strip is overwhelming, especially given that it tends to revolve around matters of taste rather than the question of what something means to the story, if anything.

We had a day full of people attempting to rip Marten a new one for not calling 911 when he found Faye passed out in her own vomit. But the next day we saw Marten treating the issue exactly the way any person in their mid 20's (and any person who has become desensitized to a hard drinker) would. "Dude. Wake up. You gotta get in the shower. Hey, are you in there? Hey, are you okay? Oh shit!" And Jeph conveyed that in one wordless panel.

Then the discussion of Marten's alleged failure as a human went poof. Yesterday's detailed analysis of Tai and Dora's failures was like that, and today's coal raking of Marigold is like that (although, given the shallow look we've had into the romance of Tai and Dora, yesterday was excusable). It's not that there aren't valid things, it the Rule 34-ish nature of the thing: If there's a possible interpretation of the strip that makes a character look bad, someone WILL use it to go off on the character they dislike.

I will complain. I even catch myself hitting the same note over an over. So it's not "hey, stop doing that." It's "hey, if someone is saying there's a whole lot of X happening, maybe stop and consider if they have a point."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 11:59
Reindeer, I'll concede on the point that people flail and grasp to defend their personal hatred of certain characters.

But otherwise, basically you're saying that we're reading too deeply into the text by making predictions such as "it looks like we're in for a downturn in various QC interpersonal relationships."

But there's no such thing as reading too deeply into anything if the interpretive conclusions are reached through actual reading: noticing patterns, recognizing typical character traits, plugging in conventional narrative tropes , making predictions, &c. We might be wrong sometimes, or even often, but - assuming that the reading points to evidence and precedent in the comic - the "reading too deeply" accusation is a blithe and frankly boring line of accusation.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 12:20
But otherwise, basically you're saying that we're reading too deeply into the text by making predictions such as "it looks like we're in for a downturn in various QC interpersonal relationships."

No. If I were saying that, I would say that.

I said that reading the last two strips as "Jeph is burning all the bridges" is a reach, because it is. There's no narrative justification for that. The closest thing there is to a justification is the argument that Jeph is responding to the fan reactions of "not enough drama." That's rather self important of the fans.

Beyond that, all I am saying is that reaching for any and every detail as justification to dump on the character you dislike is rather tedious and "literary analysis" is not a justification for it. So maybe it's worthwhile to listen to and consider the voices who are saying, "this is tedious" rather than waving the "literary analysis" flag every single time.

After all, if it were really literary analysis, it would hint at something we don't already know (which is why yesterday's excoriation of Dora and Tai is excusable, but the Marten incident and today's Marigold really aren't under this frame work).
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 05 Mar 2015, 12:33
If it isn't clear, the issues aren't that there is no valid reason to criticize. It that people latch on to the the tiniest things and use them to expound upon their pet theories as to why character X is horrible, and it's actually quite annoying.

Eh - it is annoying. However, it's how some of our fellow patrons find enjoyment in the comic. And who are we to tell them they are having wrong-fun?

Quote
Given the comic's lower information density, the level of analysis being thrown at at each strip is overwhelming, especially given that it tends to revolve around matters of taste rather than the question of what something means to the story, if anything.

True. It's sort of like dissecting road kill - but if that's your thing... I, on the other hand, kinda enjoy the opposite. Someone says one lump of carrion is a liver, and I point out that it looks exactly like the other lump several inches to the left. They argue that it's where the liver is supposed to be. I argue that OF COURSE that's where it's supposed to be, but if things weren't moved around drastically when the beastie got mowed down, it would still be alive, now, wouldn't it?

In the end, we're both standing in the middle of the road poking at a dead animal. That's sorta like reading a daily comic, isn't it?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Mar 2015, 12:35

So you're thinking the endgame (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1620) is "everyone breaks up, then Jeph retires"?

Anyone happen to notice that it's already been 5 years since that comic was up?

(Hides before AprilArcus says something about continuity... ;) )
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Satan on 05 Mar 2015, 12:55
Who knows what'll happen with Clinton and Emily
ovipositor
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 12:56
But otherwise, basically you're saying that we're reading too deeply into the text by making predictions such as "it looks like we're in for a downturn in various QC interpersonal relationships."

No. If I were saying that, I would say that.

I said that reading the last two strips as "Jeph is burning all the bridges" is a reach, because it is. There's no narrative justification for that. The closest thing there is to a justification is the argument that Jeph is responding to the fan reactions of "not enough drama." That's rather self important of the fans.

Beyond that, all I am saying is that reaching for any and every detail as justification to dump on the character you dislike is rather tedious and "literary analysis" is not a justification for it. So maybe it's worthwhile to listen to and consider the voices who are saying, "this is tedious" rather than waving the "literary analysis" flag every single time.

After all, if it were really literary analysis, it would hint at something we don't already know (which is why yesterday's excoriation of Dora and Tai is excusable, but the Marten incident and today's Marigold really aren't under this frame work).

There's a medium-to-strong possibility that I misinterpreted your post to which I was responding. I stand by my arguments about reading into things, but I also see now that it's near-irrelevant to what you were saying.

Mea culpa. (Especially for calling you boring. I'm a dick sometimes. And nothing is more ridiculous than a pedantic dick who's wrong, to paraphrase David Foster Wallace.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 05 Mar 2015, 13:02
r. I guess it's a good thing I don't write a web comic. I probably would have just thrown up my hands by now.

To be fair,having a lot of people overanalyzing your comic is a sign that your comic is very successful. Most web comics don't get any comments at all.

Not in Jeph's case apparently. (https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/568604407257919488)

I kind of see the last few strips as a "communication is important for relationships!" PSA. Marten and Claire have healthy communication, and all is unicorns and rainbows.

The Clariten example is not a good example of healthy communication. You can tell from the strip outside of the building after coitus that Marten is completely tapdancing around Claire's question and Claire readily accepts it without hesitation or even questioning it. It appears that Marten was manipulating the commentary for whatever reason; you can even tell in the body language.

   
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Mar 2015, 13:07
Well, there is a difference between comments and Reddit. Pretty much all of Reddit is a turd in a burning paper bag.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 05 Mar 2015, 13:17
Well, there is a difference between comments and Reddit. Pretty much all of Reddit is a turd in a burning paper bag.

Still, if an artist creator can't learn to accept that they will be hated, then they have no business creating. Ya have to take the bad with the good.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: questionablydiscontent on 05 Mar 2015, 13:22
Jeph could have stepped up the rhymes by saying "Mar-bear ain't give a care."
But instead it says "Mar-bear ain't give a [SWEAR]"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Mar 2015, 13:24
Mar-bear ain't give a care.
Hanners give a stare.
Danger will be there.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Mar 2015, 13:35
It's possible to acknowledge everything Marigold is doing wrong and still feel compassion. There is a defense mechanism that could be put in words as "You can't reject me, I drove you away!". Anyone who needs to deploy that one is in a lot of pain.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 05 Mar 2015, 13:40
There's also a medical (psychology?) term for that, I forget what it's called. Tried finding it; could not.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 13:45
There's also a medical (psychology?) term for that, I forget what it's called. Tried finding it; could not.

Very common in Borderline Personality Disorder.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 05 Mar 2015, 13:57
That one, you got it, you get a star.

That said, there is a difference between Marigold and people who have diagnosed with BPD. I wasn't trying to say she has it, just that are people who cannot control the driving away thing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 13:59
Eh - it is annoying. However, it's how some of our fellow patrons find enjoyment in the comic. And who are we to tell them they are having wrong-fun?

Indeed. And I didn't say they were having wrong fun. I implied that was my opinion, but I said "be open to the feedback from others rather than reaching for the easy 'but it's analysis' justification."

Let me give you an example: I don't really like Pintsize or Winslow. They don't serve any real purpose other than to fill a role that was common in the webcomic framework when QC started. QC doesn't really need them. (I don't see them as mistakes, however. If Jeph hadn't felt compelled to fill that role, we would not have Momo, who is an interesting character.)

However, and this is the kicker, I don't take every appearance of these characters as an opportunity to wax rhapsodic about how they are terrible characters. Because it doesn't add anything to the conversation. I could. I could go on about how it would be nice to see Pintsize's antics as signs that he's growing as a character. That would even be justified under the framework I'm arguing from. But why? Just to share my opinion?

Okay. But when people start saying that opinion is getting tired, like a top 40 song, it is worth listening to those people. A noted President once said, "Let us define progress to mean that simply because we can do a thing, it does not follow that we must do that thing." I'm not saying that a thing *IS* "wrong fun." Just that simply because you can have fun knowing that it is at the expense of the enjoyment of others, it does not follow that you must have fun in that manner. It's a community. So, maybe consider the other people in the community when they are giving you feedback.

True. It's sort of like dissecting road kill - but if that's your thing... I, on the other hand, kinda enjoy the opposite. Someone says one lump of carrion is a liver, and I point out that it looks exactly like the other lump several inches to the left. They argue that it's where the liver is supposed to be. I argue that OF COURSE that's where it's supposed to be, but if things weren't moved around drastically when the beastie got mowed down, it would still be alive, now, wouldn't it?

In the end, we're both standing in the middle of the road poking at a dead animal. That's sorta like reading a daily comic, isn't it?

I suppose, but it is why we are all here. Which is why I'm suggesting that perhaps we pause in our argument long enough to be aware of oncoming traffic, and maybe move over to the shoulder.

There's a medium-to-strong possibility that I misinterpreted your post to which I was responding. I stand by my arguments about reading into things, but I also see now that it's near-irrelevant to what you were saying.

Mea culpa. (Especially for calling you boring. I'm a dick sometimes. And nothing is more ridiculous than a pedantic dick who's wrong, to paraphrase David Foster Wallace.)

It is unquestionable that I take a rather dim view of being told what I think, or what I said. This may have something to with fact that it was common thing for my abusers to do. That said, I wasn't upset to any real degree and I did not take your comment as a personal attack. There's nothing to apologize for, but I am grateful that you made the effort.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: neurocase on 05 Mar 2015, 14:12
I will verify my previous post (in which I referred to Marigold as, among other things, a petulant woman-child) by saying that I am not only an introvert myself, but I have Aspergers. Not some flimsy self-diagnosis of it either; I've done the official nine yards.

So to reiterate? I'm an introvert on the autism spectrum and even I think Marigold is being a douche right now. She's socially stunted, sure, but even she couldn't possibly be so socially stunted as to not realize that she should at least be making an effort to appear interested in what her closest and most dependable (human) friend is saying to her. The last panel with her mentioning "getting the bear part right" says to me that she wasn't just absorbed in her book and forgetting to listen; she was consciously trying to tune Hannelore out. Even if she doesn't care about Marten and Co's predicaments and drama, that's a shitty thing to do. It's obvious from art alone that Hanners is probably stressed as hell in this moment, and is visibly upset that Marigold isn't listening.

Hannelore's closest friends aside from Marigold are Faye, Marten, and Dora. She's already spoken with Dora, and given the situation, Faye and Marten aren't in a position to really comfort her after the emotional strain that she's been through as well. Hannelore is reaching out for someone by venting -someone, I might add, to whom she has impacted greatly in a very positive way for hundreds of strips- and she's being met with a resounding "meh". Stunted or not, Marigold's shown some capacity for understanding the most basic of social protocols, and she damn well knows enough by now to not be doing this by accident. She's just self-centered.

tl;dr: Marigold isn't being socially ill-equipped, she's just being a shitty person.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 05 Mar 2015, 14:15
Eh - it is annoying. However, it's how some of our fellow patrons find enjoyment in the comic. And who are we to tell them they are having wrong-fun?

Indeed. And I didn't say they were having wrong fun. I implied that was my opinion, but I said "be open to the feedback from others rather than reaching for the easy 'but it's analysis' justification."

Let me give you an example: I don't really like Pintsize or Winslow. They don't serve any real purpose other than to fill a role that was common in the webcomic framework when QC started. QC doesn't really need them. (I don't see them as mistakes, however. If Jeph hadn't felt compelled to fill that role, we would not have Momo, who is an interesting character.)

However, and this is the kicker, I don't take every appearance of these characters as an opportunity to wax rhapsodic about how they are terrible characters. Because it doesn't add anything to the conversation. I could. I could go on about how it would be nice to see Pintsize's antics as signs that he's growing as a character. That would even be justified under the framework I'm arguing from. But why? Just to share my opinion?

Okay. But when people start saying that opinion is getting tired, like a top 40 song, it is worth listening to those people. A noted President once said, "Let us define progress to mean that simply because we can do a thing, it does not follow that we must do that thing." I'm not saying that a thing *IS* "wrong fun." Just that simply because you can have fun knowing that it is at the expense of the enjoyment of others, it does not follow that you must have fun in that manner. It's a community. So, maybe consider the other people in the community when they are giving you feedback.

Makes sense...

Quote
True. It's sort of like dissecting road kill - but if that's your thing... I, on the other hand, kinda enjoy the opposite. Someone says one lump of carrion is a liver, and I point out that it looks exactly like the other lump several inches to the left. They argue that it's where the liver is supposed to be. I argue that OF COURSE that's where it's supposed to be, but if things weren't moved around drastically when the beastie got mowed down, it would still be alive, now, wouldn't it?

In the end, we're both standing in the middle of the road poking at a dead animal. That's sorta like reading a daily comic, isn't it?

I suppose, but it is why we are all here. Which is why I'm suggesting that perhaps we pause in our argument long enough to be aware of oncoming traffic, and maybe move over to the shoulder.

You've managed to stretch an already thin metaphor even thinner... you have my respect, good sir.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 14:48
That one, you got it, you get a star.

That said, there is a difference between Marigold and people who have diagnosed with BPD. I wasn't trying to say she has it, just that are people who cannot control the driving away thing.

I actually thought you were talking about Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 05 Mar 2015, 14:55
Yes, because no one here has EVER been distracted by something and missed part of a conversation.  :roll:

I'm glad to know that because I identify with the situation, in that I don't always pay 100% rapt attention and sometimes my mind wanders that I'm a self-centered immature person.

Or maybe no one connects that when someone on the forums identifies with a characters reaction (though I don't always identify with Marigold, I have a lot different issues), and talks about how they could see themselves doing the same thing depending on the surrounding circumstances (which we do not know all of), that if you start calling it childish, immature, selfish, etc, you are also calling the real person who identifies with it those things as well?

Do I try to be a good friend? Of course. But I have a separate set of needs that are mine, and my friends needs don't automatically override them unless I know its an emergency. If they show up at my house on a day I need to recharge from people, they may have to deal with the fact that I'm not in a talky mood. And seriously, I'm responsible because I let them come in? What the fuck am I supposed to do, tell them to leave when they show up? Seriously? Yeah, sorry you came all this way, but go home.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Y on 05 Mar 2015, 15:14
I suppose Hanners should have started with the more serious news, instead of starting with the regular gossip of who is dating who.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 05 Mar 2015, 15:18
has marigold ever given Hannelore bread and salt? i'm sure visitors only become guests after you've seasoned them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 05 Mar 2015, 15:19
Still, if an artist creator can't learn to accept that they will be hated, then they have no business creating. Ya have to take the bad with the good.

That's a form of victim blaming, of course.  Pragmatically, right now, it may make some sense, but is it the way you think society should be, or be content to remain?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 15:45
Yes, because no one here has EVER been distracted by something and missed part of a conversation.  :roll:

I'm glad to know that because I identify with the situation, in that I don't always pay 100% rapt attention and sometimes my mind wanders that I'm a self-centered immature person.

Or maybe no one connects that when someone on the forums identifies with a characters reaction (though I don't always identify with Marigold, I have a lot different issues), and talks about how they could see themselves doing the same thing depending on the surrounding circumstances (which we do not know all of), that if you start calling it childish, immature, selfish, etc, you are also calling the real person who identifies with it those things as well?


No, if I want to call a person immature, childish, or selfish, I'll let them know directly. I identify with aspects of most of the characters; with that said, I'm aware that I'm reading a work of fiction; it literally is not about me. If someone calls out Marten's habitual indecision, I don't take offense by it, even though I happen to identify with that aspect of him; it's not the same as someone saying that I am indecisive (though if they did say that, under circumstances that warranted it, I'd probably have to pause and consider what they were saying, and what that, in turn, said about me). As I said before, Marigold's character (in both senses of the word) is established from very early on, and hasn't varied much from when we were first introduced to her. That's an observation about her, not you.

If you happen to find any of the observations made about her to be more broadly applicable to you, then it's up to you to unpack those things and mull over what they mean to you (unless, again, someone directly attributes those things to you, in which case it makes sense to ask what they mean by that). But bear in mind that at this point, the only one calling you immature or self-centered is you. You really do owe it to yourself to be nicer to yourself than that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 05 Mar 2015, 15:52
Still, if an artist creator can't learn to accept that they will be hated, then they have no business creating. Ya have to take the bad with the good.

That's a form of victim blaming, of course.  Pragmatically, right now, it may make some sense, but is it the way you think society should be, or be content to remain?

Right, cause telling an artist he draws like a 10 year old manchild is equivalent to saying a rape victim deserved to be raped cause she was wearing a sexy schoolgirl uniform in public. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 05 Mar 2015, 16:27
But your honour, the skirt was above her knees!

Woah, there, let's not go this way. Down this pathway lies many a barbed word...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 16:36
Yes, because no one here has EVER been distracted by something and missed part of a conversation.  :roll:

I'm glad to know that because I identify with the situation, in that I don't always pay 100% rapt attention and sometimes my mind wanders that I'm a self-centered immature person.

Or maybe no one connects that when someone on the forums identifies with a characters reaction (though I don't always identify with Marigold, I have a lot different issues), and talks about how they could see themselves doing the same thing depending on the surrounding circumstances (which we do not know all of), that if you start calling it childish, immature, selfish, etc, you are also calling the real person who identifies with it those things as well?

Do I try to be a good friend? Of course. But I have a separate set of needs that are mine, and my friends needs don't automatically override them unless I know its an emergency. If they show up at my house on a day I need to recharge from people, they may have to deal with the fact that I'm not in a talky mood. And seriously, I'm responsible because I let them come in? What the fuck am I supposed to do, tell them to leave when they show up? Seriously? Yeah, sorry you came all this way, but go home.

I think your criticism and defensiveness concerning this would be much more warranted if narrative fiction worked just like the real world: If the characters in QC were living out there lives 24/7 and what we get to see is what they happen to be up to when Jeph decides to check in on them for a few seconds at a time. You know, the Lynn Johnston "My Characters Are Real People Who Tell Me How To Write The Story" romanticist horseshit view of comic-writing.

But it's obviously not the case. Marigold has been shown - over and over again - to be oblivious to social norms, to be stupefyingly self-involved, and to take her friendship with Hanners for granted. The author has repeatedly decided that that's a side of her character he wants to foreground, and so it becomes a defining trait and one of the key behaviors by which we evaluate her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 17:11
But it's obviously not the case. Marigold has been shown - over and over again - to be oblivious to social norms, to be stupefyingly self-involved, and to take her friendship with Hanners for granted. The author has repeatedly decided that that's a side of her character he wants to foreground, and so it becomes a defining trait and one of the key behaviors by which we evaluate her.

Indeed. So, here we come to what I think is the crux of my issue with the meta-thread of these discussions--whether they relate to the current subject, or Dora, or Faye, or Claire ad nauseum. The general approach switches from, "there are issues with this character," to, "this person is a waste of human material."

I'll be the first to admit that human language, as communicated by humans, is imprecise. So some of that is to be expected. But the general flavor of the criticisms are calling out Marigold as a bad person, rather than saying there is an issue with the presentation of the character. If someone identifies with the idea of Marigold the person, then your sweeping criticism of her as a person is going to seem personal. And that is your responsibility.

I don't mean you should be put against the wall and shot, but it was your statement and your choice to treat the character as person, if only for a moment.

You want to criticize the character of Marigold? I'm on board. She's not even one dimensional, at this point. The idea that Jeph is doing something clever by showing that under the first layer in the Marigold onion is another layer of the same material... That is indistinguishable from not giving the character any depth.

One can argue that the character had depth before. Okay, but what has Jeph done for me lately? (Not really about me, but 80's reference.) As crappy as that sounds, that's Jeph's job. To entertain. He's done it well, so that earns slack, but not infinite slack. If Marigold is worth my time as a reader, Jeph has to demonstrate that at some point. Over and over.

So, on that level it totally is valid to criticize. "I think Marigold is (has become) one note and shallower than a conservative think tank." "Dora's become a caricature of her self, just harshness and angst. What has Jeph done with her playful side?" Cool beans. "Marigold is a terrible friend." "Dora is a bitch." Not cool. See how the former treats them as concepts and later as people?

Believe me, were everyone confining their criticisms to the characters, I'd not see it as a problem. But it's mostly directed at the people, which seems pretty glass houses to me. A bit of well rounded storytelling seeks a balance between the notes a character hits. Jeph has shown he's capable of that, so I'm sympathetic to complaints like "I miss this aspect of Claire." I wonder if it's fair, but I don't see it as an issue.

The author has decided to show us one side of Marigold, time and again. Possibly the author, like the cylons, has a plan. But isn't that an issue of the author, and not the character? Or if the issue can be packed into the character, why express it as a judgement of a person? It feels to me as if people want to have it both ways. A dig at a fictional person, until that upsets someone, then it's just a character. Person to thing based on what's most convenient.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Dust on 05 Mar 2015, 17:17
Geez people, just let Marigold and Dora read in peace! Looking at you, Hanners; the "..." tells me your run-on sentence was going on for a while. No wonder she got the information garbled. If the psychiatrist needed a string chart to follow, what hope do the outlying characters have?

"So 'Socially awkard girl who the group's helping out of her shell #3' is dating someone... something about a bear." Seems in-character for her, to me. Have we seen Marigold and Claire in the same strip?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 05 Mar 2015, 17:53
Have we seen Marigold and Claire in the same strip?

Claire spoke briefly with her to inform her of her brothers masturbation habits and give The People's Eyebrow. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Mar 2015, 17:53
The game we play with a fiction author is to make believe the characters are real people for a while.

If they were real people, there are several I would not want as friends.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 05 Mar 2015, 17:58
As someone whose business it was to put words and pictures in front of a not-always-appreciative public for a quarter-century and more, I can't go along with the characterization of an artist needing to anticipate the fact of criticism as "victim-blaming."
It cheapens the concept of being unfairly blamed for another's attack on you.
Critical* feedback is and should be part of the artistic exchange in exactly the same way that assault should NOT be part of walking down the street.

*Critical defined here as analytical and supported discussion, positive or negative in nature, NOT "I don't like this so it sucks and you're horrible."

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 18:10
If they were real, I would not want any of them as friends. They're all children, and they act like it. But that has less to do with a personality assessment and more to do with a lack of common interests.

As an honest evaluation, I'd certainly take someone with Marigold's traits as a friend. Sure she acts in a self interested manner, but she also does genuinely care, doesn't turn her fails into drama bombs often and makes efforts to make up for them in a prompt manner. Nobody said friendship was supposed to be easy, and having someone who will actually consider and act on your feelings is pretty rare, in my experience.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Dust on 05 Mar 2015, 18:21
Have we seen Marigold and Claire in the same strip?

Claire spoke briefly with her to inform her of her brothers masturbation habits and give The People's Eyebrow. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2305)

Thanks... I thought so, but my archive-diving skill (or memory) isn't what it used to be.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 05 Mar 2015, 18:23
Indeed. So, here we come to what I think is the crux of my issue with the meta-thread of these discussions--whether they relate to the current subject, or Dora, or Faye, or Claire ad nauseum. The general approach switches from, "there are issues with this character," to, "this person is a waste of human material."

I'll be the first to admit that human language, as communicated by humans, is imprecise. So some of that is to be expected. But the general flavor of the criticisms are calling out Marigold as a bad person, rather than saying there is an issue with the presentation of the character. If someone identifies with the idea of Marigold the person, then your sweeping criticism of her as a person is going to seem personal. And that is your responsibility.

I think this covers more of what I'm saying.

I mean, even I said that Marigold could have responded better, by clearly stating she got distracted and sorry rather than trying to cover up. But lets be honest, that wouldn't have been a very funny comic.

But when people are basically going: this person has these traits, and they are a horrible person because of it, do you seriously think that nobody else with similar traits is going to take that as pretty insulting?

I'm not nearly as bad as Marigold. I have more social sense than she does, but most of the time, her messing things up is from an ignorance of social norms, not from a lack of CARING. She retreated into herself for entirely different reasons than I have over the years (she was bullied, and avoided social contact because of it, I just avoid social contact not because I can't do it, but because it just tires me, even when everyone is being happy and cool), but that social isolation has done terrible things to her social skills.

And seriously, I think that sometimes people get caught up too much in their own social dynamics and forget that not every friendship is going to be the same. Like I said before, I regularly have friends drop by and just hang out at my house all day, and no one would think anything of it if one or the other of us missed a bit of what each other said. Remember that Hanners once basically sat the entire night and watched Marigold play WoW. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the things they do together isn't just hanging out talking.

Marigold probably didn't realize that Hanners was bothered by what sounded to her like "townie drama". Passively hanging out while doing different things is probably NORMAL to the way they hang out. Notice that Hanners wasn't annoyed that Marigold was reading until it was obvious that she wasn't paying attention.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Mar 2015, 18:24
It just struck me: Hannelore and Marigold are acting like an old married couple.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 05 Mar 2015, 18:27
Marigold was my introduction to QC. I quickly became fond of her. Possibly because I could see aspects of myself in her. I wanted her to slim down, buff up, and lose the loser self image.
She has indeed grown, and I am pleased for her.

I think ReindeerFlotilla has it right. Imperfect people are not -horrible- people.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 05 Mar 2015, 18:34
Well, she's smart (i.e., book smart). But practically no common sense, empathy, or emotional intelligence. If it's pointed out to her that she's screwed up, she sometimes gets it. But this is far from the first time that Hanners has reached out to her looking for the same friendship or support that she's given, only to be met with a "What was the middle thing?"

I disagree that Marigold is particularly book smart.  We know she knows how to code it's true.  But she displays a general level of ignorance regarding essentially every intellectual subject.  Most of the rest of the cast gets to have quips from time to time which show they have knowledge of literature, science, history, etc.  Marigold, not so much.  She doesn't seem to read anything besides Manga and Yaoi.  The one time a someone (okay, in her defense, it was Clinton) tried to engage her in a serious discussion about the ramifications of AI, she was dismissive about the whole thing.  She just seems...dull.  Perhaps not duller than average, but duller than majority of the cast. 

More broadly, as to the original debate.  I dislike Marigold because I relate to her.  She reminds me of the worst aspects of myself when I was younger - things which, when they come back into my head today at a ripe old age of 35, still make me cringe.  I want to forget what a dumbass I was regarding people, not revel in it. 

In some ways, I do wonder if Jeph has purposefully crafted Marigold as he has because he wants us to have little compassion for her.  I mean, it's less the case now that she's getting booty, but a lot of the central plot elements during her character buildup the first few years she was in the strip were about watching her be embarrassed about something (including the inevitable buildup to being let down by Angus).  This stuff would have been far more horrifyingly painful if she was a nice person.  Since she's kind of a self-centered ass, however, we can just laugh about it.  She's the nerd we can all feel free to punch away at. 

Edit:  New Comic - Jeph makes my last point for me. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 05 Mar 2015, 18:46
For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 18:47
Reindeer, I think I understand the distinction that you're making, but I can't for the life of me figure out why it's a distinction that is so important to make.

Yes, QC is fictional - hopefully I didn't need to actually stipulate that - and its characters are fictional constructs. But they're fictional constructs that represent the behaviors and tics of real people (not any specific historical individuals, just the idea of People), and the comic itself operates heavily within the realm of realism. So why not treat the characters and their role in the story being told, as we would flesh and blood people?

Look at it this way. You could devote a reading of Iago to discussing the authorial techniques Shakespeare uses to show us that he's a multi-dimensional charming sociopath. And that's fine. I suspect that's the version of criticism you prefer, and there's shit-tons of it out there.

But I also don't think it's even slightly odd or beyond the pale to recognize that Iago is a mult-dimensional charming sociopath and then discuss how that impacts the narrative, its themes, its statement about human nature. Would it be a bit over the top to be all "I wouldn't want to be friends with Iago" like we sometimes do about QC characters? Sure. Of course. But I don't think that should foreclose the possibility of just discussing him, or any other fictional character, as though he were real, for the sake of convience, if nothing else, so we're no constantly prefacing our remarks with "Marigold, in the way that Jeph has constructed her character, embodies the following traits, which I find objectionable..."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 18:48
For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 05 Mar 2015, 18:55
Butts Disease strikes again!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Mar 2015, 19:01
Well, there is a difference between comments and Reddit. Pretty much all of Reddit is a turd in a burning paper bag.

Still, if an artist creator can't learn to accept that they will be hated, then they have no business creating. Ya have to take the bad with the good.

There's a world of difference between being criticized and being hated.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Mar 2015, 19:02
For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.

"Audibly" also implies that she's farted in front of him before, but was stealthier about it.  You're fooling no one, Marigold.  Dale knows who dealt it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 05 Mar 2015, 19:04
It was the dog!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 19:05
For me, it's the detail of "A policeman started laughing!" that makes this strip an instant Hannergold classic.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 05 Mar 2015, 19:06
For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.

"Audibly" also implies that she's farted in front of him before, but was stealthier about it.  You're fooling no one, Marigold.  Dale knows who dealt it.

"Silent but less-than-lethal"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 05 Mar 2015, 19:16
It could be worse, Marigold.  It could be worse.
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_mBl3urGE8)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 19:19
For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.

"Audibly" also implies that she's farted in front of him before, but was stealthier about it.  You're fooling no one, Marigold.  Dale knows who dealt it.

"Silent but less-than-lethal"

You don't hear the one that gets you.

Of course, if it's football season (in QC time), she could've just said she was calling an audible.  :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 19:30
Reindeer, I think I understand the distinction that you're making, but I can't for the life of me figure out why it's a distinction that is so important to make.

...stuff...

There's a rather fundamental difference between, "I wouldn't want to be friends with Iago," and "Iago is a shitty human being."

Maybe Iago is a shitty human. I doubt most people here care. But, imagine for a moment you do. You like Iago, and think "shitty human" is a bit much.

Now imagine there's an open ended discussion of Iago at your favorite hang out, and at least once an hour someone shows up to loudly discuss how shitty a human being Iago is.

Now imagine that every week, the people who were loudly proclaiming Iago's shitty human-being-ness return to say pretty much the same thing.

Now, imagine that after three weeks of this, the Iago hate club dials it back to about three times a day. You think, you can hack it, but the very next day an hourly dissertation on the general shittiness of Othello starts up. You don't even care for Othello, but you don't care if anyone hate him, either. But it keeps happening. In droves. The same people. Over and over, they tell you how much they don't like Iago or Othello, but hardly ever say anything about the story or how the traits they don't like fit into the play. It's just very important for them to tell you that Iago or Othello is a shitty person.

Almost none of this discussion is about how these assessments of the characters impact the story. "I wouldn't want Iago/Othello?etc as friend" is an end to itself. The whole reason for the soliloquy.

If someone praises and aspect of Iago's style and how it set up a deeper issue, it will get an "Iago sucks" in response. When you say, hey.. Maybe that's a bit much, you get "Literary criticism!" When you say, "but none of these people is actually discussing the story, but "I hate Iago," you get "LITERARY CRITICISM!!!!1111111ONE"

NOT ONLY that, but you can't unhear/ignore the hourly interjection because someone always engages the complainer, up to and including quoting everything the person said, verbatim, before responding... often quoting all of the thing other people said in response.

It's kinda like that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 05 Mar 2015, 19:55
And now they'll never get her to leave the Apartment again
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 05 Mar 2015, 19:56
Reindeer, I think I understand the distinction that you're making, but I can't for the life of me figure out why it's a distinction that is so important to make.

...stuff...

There's a rather fundamental difference between, "I wouldn't want to be friends with Iago," and "Iago is a shitty human being."

Maybe Iago is a shitty human. I doubt most people here care. But, imagine for a moment you do. You like Iago, and think "shitty human" is a bit much.

Now imagine there's an open ended discussion of Iago at your favorite hang out, and at least once an hour someone shows up to loudly discuss how shitty a human being Iago is.

Now imagine that every week, the people who were loudly proclaiming Iago's shitty human-being-ness return to say pretty much the same thing.

Now, imagine that after three weeks of this, the Iago hate club dials it back to about three times a day. You think, you can hack it, but the very next day an hourly dissertation on the general shittiness of Othello starts up. You don't even care for Othello, but you don't care if anyone hate him, either. But it keeps happening. In droves. The same people. Over and over, they tell you how much they don't like Iago or Othello, but hardly ever say anything about the story or how the traits they don't like fit into the play. It's just very important for them to tell you that Iago or Othello is a shitty person.

Almost none of this discussion is about how these assessments of the characters impact the story. "I wouldn't want Iago/Othello?etc as friend" is an end to itself. The whole reason for the soliloquy.

If someone praises and aspect of Iago's style and how it set up a deeper issue, it will get an "Iago sucks" in response. When you say, hey.. Maybe that's a bit much, you get "Literary criticism!" When you say, "but none of these people is actually discussing the story, but "I hate Iago," you get "LITERARY CRITICISM!!!!1111111ONE"

NOT ONLY that, but you can't unhear/ignore the hourly interjection because someone always engages the complainer, up to and including quoting everything the person said, verbatim, before responding... often quoting all of the thing other people said in response.

It's kinda like that.

We must be reading different forums, because the criticism I see of key characters, while repetitive - inevitability of the medium, I suppose - is consistently either backed by references to the comic or made in the service of arguing a point about the comic. I don't know who these people are who just show up in droves to type "Dora sucks" and then sign off, but they're not showing up on my end very often.

What's with the exaggerated stylization of literary criticism? I'm unclear as to whether that's aimed at me or various other interlocutors.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 05 Mar 2015, 20:15
My first response upon seeing today's comic: Fart Joke - SCORE!
My second response upon seeing today's comic: Is this realistic female interaction? My wife says no... "Women do not discuss farts, unless its in reference the men in their lives."

I wrote all of this before looking at your reactions. LETS SEE HOW THEY COMPARE!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 20:17
We must be reading different forums...

And on that note, I'll be ending this discussion with you. Nothing personal, but we are reading the same forums, so either you weren't here during...Pretty much everything that happened in the last 2 months, or you don't see the things that happened as a problem.

Either way, it seems to represent an irreconcilable difference.

I will say this: "I don't like this about character X and I think it is boring," isn't literary criticism. It's an opinion. When I can trace the same people stating the same opinion repeatedly, with only a very few discussing any effect on the storytelling, I'd say--hyperbole or not--my characterization stands up. Obviously you don't believe that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for whether my "stylization" was aimed, in particular aimed at you, consider this: Why should you care? Why is it far more important who I may or may not have been pointing at than what I was trying to communicate? Why is it that it is okay to say things about fictional characters and it's not the speaker's problem if someone is offended, but the possibility that something might be offensive to you with regard to hypothetical people must be investigated?

As I said, I'm done here. So I don't need an answer. Those questions are purely for your consideration.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 20:20
My first response upon seeing today's comic: Fart Joke - SCORE!
My second response upon seeing today's comic: Is this realistic female interaction? My wife says no... "Women do not discuss farts, unless its in reference the men in their lives."

I wrote all of this before looking at your reactions. LETS SEE HOW THEY COMPARE!

Your wife is wrong.

Both based on pure evidence of observing women being women and because any statement beginning with "women do not" is likely false with regard to most subjects, especially behavior.

Are you sure your wife was not being ironic?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 05 Mar 2015, 20:23
There's always room for Fart Jokes


My friend Nicole would agree
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 05 Mar 2015, 20:28
Speed-lines and talking 'bout farts is a good combination.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Penquin47 on 05 Mar 2015, 20:31
I'm a woman.  I'll discuss farts with whoever cares to engage in a conversation about that topic.

Of course, I also wouldn't care if I audibly farted in front of someone I was involved with.  On a first date, maybe, but by this point in Marigold and Dale's relationship?  I'm with Hanners.  It's gonna happen, and you can either laugh with the policeman or die of embarrassment.  Laughing with the policeman is a lot more fun.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 05 Mar 2015, 20:32
My first response upon seeing today's comic: Fart Joke - SCORE!
My second response upon seeing today's comic: Is this realistic female interaction? My wife says no... "Women do not discuss farts, unless its in reference the men in their lives."

I wrote all of this before looking at your reactions. LETS SEE HOW THEY COMPARE!
Your wife is wrong.
Both based on pure evidence of observing women being women and because any statement beginning with "women do not" is likely false with regard to most subjects, especially behavior.
Are you sure your wife was not being ironic?

Both my wife an I write fiction as a hobby. She an I have an ongoing discussion over characterization of women by men writers. She claims she can tell if a female character is written by a man because the character acts more like a man, or how a man would think women act... I think it's a load of bologna myself, but she's accurately identified the gender of the writer in the past based on how the female characters are written, so I can't completely discredit her. All I can say is that she's has a 50/50 chance and she's gotten lucky more times than not.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Black Licorice on 05 Mar 2015, 20:39
I'm a woman.  I'll discuss farts with whoever cares to engage in a conversation about that topic.

Of course, I also wouldn't care if I audibly farted in front of someone I was involved with.  On a first date, maybe, but by this point in Marigold and Dale's relationship?  I'm with Hanners.  It's gonna happen, and you can either laugh with the policeman or die of embarrassment.  Laughing with the policeman is a lot more fun.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 20:57
Both my wife an I write fiction as a hobby. She an I have an ongoing discussion over characterization of women by men writers. She claims she can tell if a female character is written by a man because the character acts more like a man, or how a man would think women act... I think it's a load of bologna myself, but she's accurately identified the gender of the writer in the past based on how the female characters are written, so I can't completely discredit her. All I can say is that she's has a 50/50 chance and she's gotten lucky more times than not.

I believe this, to a certain extent. I don't think it says anything about the general human condition, or the way all women/men/other behave. It just means a large enough population of writers fall into patterns that can be traced to what they read.

Whether you belive those patterns are realistic is reflection of your own biases, though. That's my opinion, anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: slydon on 05 Mar 2015, 21:20
Ending the week on a classy gassy note.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 21:40
On that note...

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 05 Mar 2015, 22:35
I love the Farting Preacher vids.

On women discussing farts - hell, I had a discussion about -diarrhea- with another woman today. Farts are a minor discussion compared to that.

Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Mar 2015, 22:59
No shit women talk about those sorts of things.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Mar 2015, 23:20
Poor Marigold does seem to have issues with that particular body function, doesn't she? I'm not sure if it is because of her generally unhealthy lifestyle or if she's just let her body get used to her being a slob! Either way, I'm sure that the embarrassment will fade with time;Hannelore just has to convince her not to lock herself away again!

It's another example of how Marigold's lifestyle has left her psychologically and emotionally child-like and struggling to deal with things that functional adults can shrug off.

I did like Hannelore's expression in panel 4: "Help! I'm trapped in a room with a crazy person!" it seemed to say! It's probably a sign of how far that she's come that she can actually know what a proportionate response to that event should be.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 23:38
Poor Marigold does seem to have issues with that particular body function, doesn't she. I'm not sure if it is because of her generally unhealthy lifestyle or if she's just let her body get used to her being a slob! Either way, I'm sure that the embarrassment will fade with time;Hannelore just has to convince her not to lock herself away again!

Everybody farts. Maybe with a bit more discretion, granted, but it's not like she's some kinda flatulent unicorn. :P
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Mar 2015, 23:44
Do unicorns fart rainbows?
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Undrneath on 06 Mar 2015, 00:13
Never mind the flatus humor Marigold seems more zoftigesce today. Dang that girl is stacked.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 06 Mar 2015, 01:19
Poor Marigold does seem to have issues with that particular body function, doesn't she? I'm not sure if it is because of her generally unhealthy lifestyle or if she's just let her body get used to her being a slob! Either way, I'm sure that the embarrassment will fade with time;Hannelore just has to convince her not to lock herself away again!

I'm guessing since she's so used to farting without realizing who's around (like when she was playing WoW with Hanners on the bed), it's now ingrained into her mind that farting is not "embarrassing" to her till it's too late. Old habits die hard I guess......
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Mar 2015, 01:24
To me, the past two strips have been mostly filler. It seems to me that Jeph is 'walking out' the rest of Tuesday evening (in strip). I suspect that he wants to avoid opening any new plot threads until next week, which means we might have a new major mini-arc. To me, there are two obvious alternatives:
I'd handle the latter of the two by having Marten and Claire arriving at the Library, all bright and cheerful, as cute and happy as ever, greeting Emily and maybe some early students before the last panel where they're staring in amazement at Tai, slumped in her seat, with the word 'GLOOM' spelt out in black clouds above her head.

FWIW, I'd prefer to have Tai pouring out her troubles to Marten and/or Claire for Wednesday daytime before moving on to Faye at the support group afterwards. That's might be only because I'm a bit of a neat freak when it comes to keeping plot threads tidy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 06 Mar 2015, 01:25
what a wonderful end to the qc week. more of this please and no more Claire and marten ever.

I know a woman who farts and then congratulates herself by saying, "good arse".
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 06 Mar 2015, 02:04
I must say that if you get a cop to laugh you fucked up. :police:
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Nepiophage on 06 Mar 2015, 02:34
what a wonderful end to the qc week. more of this please and no more Claire and marten ever.

I know a woman who farts and then congratulates herself by saying, "good arse".

What I say is "My soul speaks when the moment is too profound for words."
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Mar 2015, 02:49
Now imagine there's an open ended discussion of Iago at your favorite hang out, and at least once an hour someone shows up to loudly discuss how shitty a human being Iago is.

Now imagine that every week, the people who were loudly proclaiming Iago's shitty human-being-ness return to say pretty much the same thing.

Now, imagine that after three weeks of this, the Iago hate club dials it back to about three times a day. You think, you can hack it, but the very next day an hourly dissertation on the general shittiness of Othello starts up.

You wouldn't like the Evangelion forum I frequent, then.  Some people are still saying the same things - while others say some new and different things - about a show that ended twenty years ago!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Akima on 06 Mar 2015, 03:14
On reading Marigold's final line, I was instantly put in mind of the ancient music hall song "The Laughing Policeman".
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 06 Mar 2015, 04:03
We must be reading different forums...

And on that note, I'll be ending this discussion with you. Nothing personal, but we are reading the same forums, so either you weren't here during...Pretty much everything that happened in the last 2 months, or you don't see the things that happened as a problem.

Either way, it seems to represent an irreconcilable difference.

I will say this: "I don't like this about character X and I think it is boring," isn't literary criticism. It's an opinion. When I can trace the same people stating the same opinion repeatedly, with only a very few discussing any effect on the storytelling, I'd say--hyperbole or not--my characterization stands up. Obviously you don't believe that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for whether my "stylization" was aimed, in particular aimed at you, consider this: Why should you care? Why is it far more important who I may or may not have been pointing at than what I was trying to communicate? Why is it that it is okay to say things about fictional characters and it's not the speaker's problem if someone is offended, but the possibility that something might be offensive to you with regard to hypothetical people must be investigated?

As I said, I'm done here. So I don't need an answer. Those questions are purely for your consideration.

Mkay.

ETA: I just noticed that in your "quoting" of my attempt at an explanation/analogy, you reduced the point I was trying to make to "stuff." So, basically, tl;dr. Nice. Guess that'll teach me to spend half an hour trying to construct a post that politely expresses exactly what I think about an issue.

Considering how touchy you are about glib posts, you sure don't seem to have much patience for somebody trying to actually explain themselves, do you?

Furthermore, my inquiry about your mockery of lit-crit had nothing to do with being "offended"; your suggestion that it did might as well have just read "You mad, bro?", btw. No, it had to do with looking back at my posts and trying to see what aspect of them came off as unconvincing or facile. You know, so I can learn from what people found effective or ineffective about my arguments and examples, and adjust accordingly. The day I'm actually "offended" by something an anonymous message board user says is the day I'll know it's time to re-evaluate my priorities.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Mar 2015, 07:49
To me, the past two strips have been mostly filler. It seems to me that Jeph is 'walking out' the rest of Tuesday evening (in strip). I suspect that he wants to avoid opening any new plot threads until next week, which means we might have a new major mini-arc. To me, there are two obvious alternatives:
  • Faye at the support group;
  • Taira aftershocks.


Probably both, with an Emily/Clinton check-in to liven things up a bit.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 06 Mar 2015, 10:43
To me, the past two strips have been mostly filler. It seems to me that Jeph is 'walking out' the rest of Tuesday evening (in strip). I suspect that he wants to avoid opening any new plot threads until next week, which means we might have a new major mini-arc. To me, there are two obvious alternatives:
  • Faye at the support group;
  • Taira aftershocks.


Probably both, with an Emily/Clinton check-in to liven things up a bit.

I'm very conflicted about Taira. On the one hand, I thought Wednesday's comic was well done and a great set up for teh dramaz, if that's the direction it's going in. On the other, I feel like we don't know enough about their relationship yet to really have earned a dramatic falling out. If it happens, I feel like it will be less about Tai's role in the relationship than a character-arc vehicle for Dora. And since they're two of my favorite characters, it's intriguing either way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Mar 2015, 10:58
I think it's more likely a way to set up more developments rather than a relationship-ender. I can't think of a single instance where there was one falling out that ended everything; any arcs I can think of (Dora/Marten, Dora/Faye, Faye/Angus, even Marten/Padma) built to a split.

Not that this is necessarily headed for a split. The reason I think it could be, though, is that Jeph tends to have two "modes" when it comes to writing relationships: they're either stable, and get backgrounded (Penelope/Wil, Steve/Cosette, Dale/Marigold), or there's a breadcrumb trail of minor annoyances that build to bigger stuff that leads to breakups (Marten/Dora, Faye/Angus, Marten/Padma to a degree*), with outliers like Dora and Jim's relationship.

*I know that Padma and Marten's relationship had an expiration date on the carton from day one, but it's not as though it had to end the way it did; Marten's petulance toward the end tipped the balance in a bittersweet parting decidedly toward bitter. And yes, I'm well aware that someone's going to say I hate Marten now. :P
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: aphanisis81 on 06 Mar 2015, 11:28
I think it's more likely a way to set up more developments rather than a relationship-ender. I can't think of a single instance where there was one falling out that ended everything; any arcs I can think of (Dora/Marten, Dora/Faye, Faye/Angus, even Marten/Padma) built to a split.

Not that this is necessarily headed for a split. The reason I think it could be, though, is that Jeph tends to have two "modes" when it comes to writing relationships: they're either stable, and get backgrounded (Penelope/Wil, Steve/Cosette, Dale/Marigold), or there's a breadcrumb trail of minor annoyances that build to bigger stuff that leads to breakups (Marten/Dora, Faye/Angus, Marten/Padma to a degree*), with outliers like Dora and Jim's relationship.

*I know that Padma and Marten's relationship had an expiration date on the carton from day one, but it's not as though it had to end the way it did; Marten's petulance toward the end tipped the balance in a bittersweet parting decidedly toward bitter. And yes, I'm well aware that someone's going to say I hate Marten now. :P

Marten-hater!!! There, I beat them to the punch.

I don't think or hope that Tai and Dora will break up either, I just think their running into a rough patch would, on the one hand, be interesting; but on the other, I'm not sure we've seen them together enough to really have context for a conflict.

I'm conflicted about how Marten left it with Padma. I actually feel like that was a big step for him in terms of feeling like les of a doormat, and we really only have Faye's speculation to support the common reading that she Padma was pushing him away because she was into him, or whatever it is she summarized it as...I dunno.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Mar 2015, 11:31
FWIW, I think that confronting a 'rough patch' and having to fight for their relationship would be a nice way to have some Tai and Dora character moments and character growth. If this goes anywhere, I'm hoping that Jeph takes it there.

One line of dialogue we could see (from Marten or Faye or maybe even Sven) would be someone asking Dora: "Do you really want to lose what you have with Tai?"
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 06 Mar 2015, 11:35
I think the conflict, such as it is, hasn't been given a huge setup; it's been more like a trail of breadcrumbs. Little throwaway things, small omissions...

And depending on where the wakeup call comes from, it could be an eye-opener for Dora not just in her relationship with Tai, but with a handful of other people as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Shadic on 06 Mar 2015, 11:36
Man, I really wish Marigold was a more interesting character. Her "schtick" has been the same few jokes since her character initially settled, and I feel like arcs that focus on her are significantly less interesting as a result.

I'm not a huge fan of Hanners either, but she's grown significantly as a person (even after the early-comic weirdness), and she's significantly more likeable as a person. It makes sense that the two of them would be friends, but I can't remember the last time I've enjoyed a comic solely with the two of them.  :psyduck:

(Also I think Hanners was more interesting as Hannelore when she was apparently on some crazy anti-anxiety meds and first met Marten.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 06 Mar 2015, 11:58
I'm very conflicted about Taira. On the one hand, I thought Wednesday's comic was well done and a great set up for teh dramaz, if that's the direction it's going in. On the other, I feel like we don't know enough about their relationship yet to really have earned a dramatic falling out.

I think that's the source of the drama, that there's not much to the relationship. They like each others company and the sex, but Dora's keeping her at arms length.

Though I don't think it ends with a falling out, I think it ends with Dora opening up.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 06 Mar 2015, 12:35
Indeed


I think Dora's at the point where she either opens up or completely goes to pieces. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 06 Mar 2015, 12:39
It might take more time and drama for that to happen.  Dora just saw Faye lose control.  Given Dora's control issues, it is highly likely that this will just reinforce her desire to control every aspect of her life. 

Apropriate Cohen line:
Quote
Yes you who must leave everything that you cannot control.
It begins with your family, but soon it comes around to your soul.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 06 Mar 2015, 14:45
Then there's a pair of us — don't tell! They'd banish us, you know.
Advertise.  Not Banish us.

Down with Higginsonian revisionists!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Dust on 06 Mar 2015, 14:54
I think that's the source of the drama, that there's not much to the relationship. They like each others company and the sex, but Dora's keeping her at arms length.

Though I don't think it ends with a falling out, I think it ends with Dora opening up.

They've been fairly lucky thus far, considering we hadn't seen any drama. Tai came in with her 'since day one' crush, apparently oblivious to Dora's issues, and Dora likely hadn't dealt with any of them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 06 Mar 2015, 19:45
I think the last two strips were filler. Pretty much since Angus went to the call back, which lines up with the switch to words-lite, QC has refocused to it's main characters. That means Marten+Faye with side of Dora.

So it seems likely that Tai's outburst was part of the side of Dora. That Tai wasn't acting in her capacity as a viewpoint character, but as supporting character. We know Jeph's winging it, to a certain extent, and he's historically been good about not dropping plot threads. I suspect the first idea involving the Svenectomy involved more Sven, but the comic didn't flow in that direction. It's been long enough that I thought it was an abandoned plot. But I think Jeph may be of the opinion that Dora overracted to Faye's drinking at work.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Dora overracted. But, as an honest observer, I can think of equally appropriate responses that did not involve firing Faye on the spot.

Given the way Tai tied together the Faye issue with the Sven problem, and then joined it, I suspect we are looking at exactly the "Dora has control issues" plot that's been proposed.

Historically, Jeph has handled these things in fairly realistic manner. That is, shit happens, and shit slides. Like real life (at least what I've experienced) people tend to gloss over problems in QC--trying not to sweat the small stuff, or second guessing their feelings--until the shit piles up. Then there's drama, followed by reconciliation.

But with the change to fewer words, I'm not really sure if that pattern holds. There was drama. Probably the biggest bit of drama Jeph's ever done--though I don't think he expected that. To a certain extent, it would seem the reconciliation has started, with Faye actually trying to face her problems. Dora's side of the story could be viewed as Dora's side of that reconciliation phase, but the connection to Sven makes it seem like part of a different plot.

I'm a sucker for a happy coupling. I think about shows like Mad about You, and I'm reminded that you can have drama and conflict (and comedy) in a relationship without resorting to a break up. So I am inclined to want Dora and Tai to hold together.

If this is really a side show to the end of Faye's drama, and begining of Faye's struggle, then I suspect it will blow over. But if (and the writer in me favors this_ it is the next phase in a build up to Dora-drama, I expect Dora isn't going to be able to admit fault to Tai as easily as she did to herself.

We had one beat out of 9 between Tai leaving and Dora acknowledging her wrong. Logically, that's more than enough time for Dora to have gone after Tai, and tried to make it right. I'd like to think that finding out Dora didn't do that would hint that she is not able to tell Tai tai what she told herself. But the new pacing (it's not really that new, anymore) makes it difficult to say. I know there have been other cases where what commenters here expected to happen next was basically just skipped. I can't imagine the old pacing going from Hanners is frustrated with Marigold to Hanners appears to be sincerely asking after Dale.

I can imagine, with this current style, that Dora patched things up off screen, but the writer in me sees that Dora has fired Marten's roommate, is Marten's ex, and has just had a romantic stumble with Marten's boss. Marten is as Main as the main characters get, so it seems like we should expect more drama between Tai and Dora.



):
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 06 Mar 2015, 21:37
Hey Marigold? Let's go kill spiders!
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 08 Mar 2015, 09:23
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Panel 4 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2509)

It's not funny to joke that a character's only good trait is their breasts.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Marigold's "Homeric bosoms" have been a running joke practically since she was introduced. It's not like the OP just noted that they're drawn larger than other female characters' and is now the first to comment on it. This was as lighthearted a joke as they come, and only plays off of a gag that the author himself established.

If anyone believes that the original joke or my bland defense of same is misogynistic, I'd be happy to explain why I disagree but please refrain from allusions to fedoras and neck beards. I hate meninism and libertarianism too, but that joke is already staler than a gas station hot dog at closing time.

Maybe so, and I've let it go as the joke I assume he meant it as, but there are, undoubtedly, some would see the comment as crass and unfunny.

There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Mar 2015, 10:47
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.

I may need this for a signature line...
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 13:27
Genuine question: What are Marigold's redeeming qualities?

Panel 4 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2509)

It's not funny to joke that a character's only good trait is their breasts.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Marigold's "Homeric bosoms" have been a running joke practically since she was introduced. It's not like the OP just noted that they're drawn larger than other female characters' and is now the first to comment on it. This was as lighthearted a joke as they come, and only plays off of a gag that the author himself established.

If anyone believes that the original joke or my bland defense of same is misogynistic, I'd be happy to explain why I disagree but please refrain from allusions to fedoras and neck beards. I hate meninism and libertarianism too, but that joke is already staler than a gas station hot dog at closing time.

Maybe so, and I've let it go as the joke I assume he meant it as, but there are, undoubtedly, some would see the comment as crass and unfunny.

There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.


Global Moderator Comment Which is why, though I let it go for the joke it was, I issued a minor warning for a minor infraction. That ended the matter.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 08 Mar 2015, 13:51
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.

I may need this for a signature line...

Feel free.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 08 Mar 2015, 14:37
Re: Friday's comic; someone should tell (or remind, maybe?) Marigold that the QCverse!NoHam PD have a, like, 30-50% chance of being drunk, stoned, or thinking about something else entirely when encountered. That cop could have been laughing at anything, from the pretty patterns they could see in their boot polish, to last night's episode of Starbase Atlantica…
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 08 Mar 2015, 15:18
have the police ever featured in qc at all?
it's a long time since I last read the whole comic but I don't recall ever seeing old bill.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: ankhtahr on 08 Mar 2015, 15:23
Several times. One time, when Hanners ran down the street, screaming with a bloodied worry hat, another time when Faye loudly complained about Sven on the street, and there have been other appearances.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 08 Mar 2015, 15:24
At least five times (http://cesiumcomics.com/qctags/?tag=cop), though I may have missed some.
Title: Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 08 Mar 2015, 15:27
that was very quick. thank you.